Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?

[Derek Smalls]

There is a case to be made for pulling the plug and rebuilding. But in reality, we are in a similar spot to last year with a great defense, 2 young stud skill players, and with major questions at QB and the OL. 8 months ago, we were pretty much all on board with paying a vet QB a lot of money, even if you didn't want Rodgers. In reality. what has changed? Defense is the same. QB is already here.

Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.

[Jumbo]

There is a case to be made for pulling the plug and rebuilding. But in reality, we are in a similar spot to last year with a great defense, 2 young stud skill players, and with major questions at QB and the OL. 8 months ago, we were pretty much all on board with paying a vet QB a lot of money, even if you didn't want Rodgers. In reality. what has changed? Defense is the same. QB is already here.

Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.

Agreed. I don't even like Saleh too much but there's a much better case for sticking with him than with JD at this point. Saleh at least gets the excuse of not picking his personnel at QB/OL. That's on JD. Either way I know it's a great time to be reactive and want everyone gone but it doesn't really make much sense to do it just because we're upset at how this season has gone. A new regime next year makes it much harder to win games and we're still in win now mode with Rodgers at the helm.

[Coach K]

There is a case to be made for pulling the plug and rebuilding. But in reality, we are in a similar spot to last year with a great defense, 2 young stud skill players, and with major questions at QB and the OL. 8 months ago, we were pretty much all on board with paying a vet QB a lot of money, even if you didn't want Rodgers. In reality. what has changed? Defense is the same. QB is already here.

Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.

which is why i said it can be turned around, however the cap is gonna be rough. CJ Mosely needs to take a pay cut , Uzomah needs to be cut,  JFM needs to take a pay cut and if not likely just cut him. All of this HAS to happen to have the cap to shore up the OL with the limited draft capital we have. then we need to objectively make good 1st and 3rd rd picks.

This sounds doable but yeah , just gonna be a tall task. We also need a 40 yr old coming off achilles injury to be as good as he was 2 or 3 yrs ago. 

[SixFeetDeep]

There is a case to be made for pulling the plug and rebuilding. But in reality, we are in a similar spot to last year with a great defense, 2 young stud skill players, and with major questions at QB and the OL. 8 months ago, we were pretty much all on board with paying a vet QB a lot of money, even if you didn't want Rodgers. In reality. what has changed? Defense is the same. QB is already here.

Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.

There isn’t really. We have a clear path to a veteran QB and no clear path to a top 4 QB in the draft, who will inevitably bust like our last few top picks because of our OL and Allen Lazard

[Coach K]

There isn’t really. We have a clear path to a veteran QB and no clear path to a top 4 QB in the draft, who will inevitably bust like our last few top picks because of our OL and Allen Lazard

that Lazard contract is the offensive version of the Trumaine Johnson deal. granted its about 5 mil per yr cheaper, but its an anchor nonetheless

[Miamipuck]

Agreed. I don't even like Saleh too much but there's a much better case for sticking with him than with JD at this point. Saleh at least gets the excuse of not picking his personnel at QB/OL. That's on JD. Either way I know it's a great time to be reactive and want everyone gone but it doesn't really make much sense to do it just because we're upset at how this season has gone. A new regime next year makes it much harder to win games and we're still in win now mode with Rodgers at the helm.

I usually agree with you but you're out of your mind if you don't think Saleh and Douglas, the scouts and coaches are all on the same page when it comes to drafting and signing the players, they want or need for the system. They're all clueless incompetent or both at the other side of the ball.

I am undecided at the moment if they should clean house or not. Saleh sucks, there's no accountability, they make the same boneheaded game after game.  Jefferson should have been benched forthwith after that dumb derriere freak head butt. Yay he benched Lazard, a full 3 weeks too late.

Douglas's malfeasance/ incompetence on offense is astounding.

They both are terrible but I am not the owner.

[MexJetinBcn]

which is why i said it can be turned around, however the cap is gonna be rough. CJ Mosely needs to take a pay cut , Uzomah needs to be cut,  JFM needs to take a pay cut and if not likely just cut him. All of this HAS to happen to have the cap to shore up the OL with the limited draft capital we have. then we need to objectively make good 1st and 3rd rd picks.

This sounds doable but yeah , just gonna be a tall task. We also need a 40 yr old coming off achilles injury to be as good as he was 2 or 3 yrs ago.

They will probable trade JFM. He's very good, we have depth at the position and we can't afford his salary. We'll get a 3rd or 4th for him.

[CatoTheElder]

which is why i said it can be turned around, however the cap is gonna be rough. CJ Mosely needs to take a pay cut , Uzomah needs to be cut,  JFM needs to take a pay cut and if not likely just cut him. All of this HAS to happen to have the cap to shore up the OL with the limited draft capital we have. then we need to objectively make good 1st and 3rd rd picks.

This sounds doable but yeah , just gonna be a tall task. We also need a 40 yr old coming off achilles injury to be as good as he was 2 or 3 yrs ago. 

We already restructured JFM and Mosely if we want to pay them less money we have to cut or trade them.

[Coach K]

We already restructured JFM and Mosely if we want to pay them less money we have to cut or trade them.

Then say goodbye to both if we're gonna get the cap relief to actually fix this offense

[CatoTheElder]

Them say goodbye to both if we're gonna get the cap relief to actually fix this offense

Yes. The defense is going to have to lose assets in order to retool the roster.

JFM and Mosely are probably the top two I can think of.

DJ Reed, who also restructured his deal to include 3 seasons of void years, has a $15million cap number next season. MC2 might get to play on the outside next season.

We're getting some relief from Lawson's deal expiring, but not enough. We'll once again have to replace most of our safeties. Huff would be nice to have back but I don't see how he can be a priority at this point.

We need 2 OTs, 1 OG, a #2WR, and a more experienced slot receiver to fill out the offense.

I think we can probably land 1 OLine and 1 WR in both FA and the draft if we're smart. If we do what I think we're going to do then JD is going to sacrifice a premium pick for Davonte Adams, sign an injury prone veteran, and call the WR position solved.

[CatoTheElder]

Everyone is bitching about how Rodgers wouldn't save this team but Jets fans haven't seen competent QB play for so long we're forgetting what it's like

In this reality that you've crafted for yourself are people only allowed to watch one team ever?

There is a case to be made for pulling the plug and rebuilding. But in reality, we are in a similar spot to last year with a great defense, 2 young stud skill players, and with major questions at QB and the OL. 8 months ago, we were pretty much all on board with paying a vet QB a lot of money, even if you didn't want Rodgers. In reality. what has changed? Defense is the same. QB is already here.

Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.

We are realizing how much worse the team is than we thought. At least at that point we had the excuse of thinking that AVT's injury problems were a one-off and that Brown might be able to help this season.

We also didn't realize how hard Douglas would continue to miss on WR acquisitions.

[bojanglesman]

Yes. The defense is going to have to lose assets in order to retool the roster.

JFM and Mosely are probably the top two I can think of.

DJ Reed, who also restructured his deal to include 3 seasons of void years, has a $15million cap number next season. MC2 might get to play on the outside next season.

We're getting some relief from Lawson's deal expiring, but not enough. We'll once again have to replace most of our safeties. Huff would be nice to have back but I don't see how he can be a priority at this point.

We need 2 OTs, 1 OG, a #2WR, and a more experienced slot receiver to fill out the offense.

I think we can probably land 1 OLine and 1 WR in both FA and the draft if we're smart. If we do what I think we're going to do then JD is going to sacrifice a premium pick for Davonte Adams, sign an injury prone veteran, and call the WR position solved.

I agree that something(s) on the defense needs to go to open up help for the offense and the defensive line has to be it.  Looks like they have 5 of the main DL rotation under contract for 2024 (Jefferson voids this offseason, maybe they can get him back).  Maybe do something with JFM?  He is good, but making a lot of money.  Would be nice if we could just eat a little of his contract and trade him somewhere.  It would leave a hole in the DL, but sacrifices need to be made.

Douglas should approach Laken Tomlinson and re-do his contract or cut him.  He will be the 5th highest paid LG in the league next year.  They need to get his salary down or we cut him.  That wouldn't be an empty threat either.  Around $8 million would be what a top 8-10 left guard gets in the league.  That's what we'd save by cutting him.

I don't think they'd risk losing DJ Reed.  He would be the 12th highest paid corner in 2024 and I'd argue he's that good.  I think they'll either get him a new deal or leave it where it is. 

Mosley is still good, but he's getting older.  I wouldn't be surprised if they re-do his deal to keep him here but get his cap # down for 2024.  I think they should do all they can to keep him. I think he can keep playing at a high level for a few more years.

Cutting Uzomah will free up $5 mil.

I like Conklin, but I wouldn't care if they let him go or kept him.  He's overpaid but I don't know if that's because our QB play sucks and there's no one to get him the ball.  At least he doesn't freak up that much with drops and penalties and he seems like a likeable guy, not that it matters.

As much as it hurts to say, signing Huff to a new deal will make improving the offense harder.  I think the plan is to let him walk and let WMD replace him.  Saves money and gets a starting role for the 1st rounder Douglas picked.  Huff is going to get a boatload of cash somewhere.   

[CatoTheElder]

I agree that something(s) on the defense needs to go to open up help for the offense and the defensive line has to be it.  Looks like they have 5 of the main DL rotation under contract for 2024 (Jefferson voids this offseason, maybe they can get him back).  Maybe do something with JFM?  He is good, but making a lot of money.  Would be nice if we could just eat a little of his contract and trade him somewhere.  It would leave a hole in the DL, but sacrifices need to be made.

Douglas should approach Laken Tomlinson and re-do his contract or cut him.  He will be the 5th highest paid LG in the league next year.  They need to get his salary down or we cut him.  That wouldn't be an empty threat either.  Around $8 million would be what a top 8-10 left guard gets in the league.  That's what we'd save by cutting him.

I don't think they'd risk losing DJ Reed.  He would be the 12th highest paid corner in 2024 and I'd argue he's that good.  I think they'll either get him a new deal or leave it where it is. 

Mosley is still good, but he's getting older.  I wouldn't be surprised if they re-do his deal to keep him here but get his cap # down for 2024.  I think they should do all they can to keep him. I think he can keep playing at a high level for a few more years.

Cutting Uzomah will free up $5 mil.

I like Conklin, but I wouldn't care if they let him go or kept him.  He's overpaid but I don't know if that's because our QB play sucks and there's no one to get him the ball.  At least he doesn't freak up that much with drops and penalties and he seems like a likeable guy, not that it matters.

As much as it hurts to say, signing Huff to a new deal will make improving the offense harder.  I think the plan is to let him walk and let WMD replace him.  Saves money and gets a starting role for the 1st rounder Douglas picked.  Huff is going to get a boatload of cash somewhere.   

Everyone you've mentioned as a possible contract renegotiation has already renegotiated their contracts. Unless we want to keep paying these dudes until 2030 some of them are going to have to go.

[Libero_2]

Everyone you've mentioned as a possible contract renegotiation has already renegotiated their contracts. Unless we want to keep paying these dudes until 2030 some of them are going to have to go.

He’s not asking for a restructure, he’s asking us to make these guys take pay cuts or to get cut. That’s not the same thing. Not keep the money the same and move it around, literally not pay them as much as they are scheduled to make.

[CatoTheElder]

He’s not asking for a restructure, he’s asking us to make these guys take pay cuts or to get cut. That’s not the same thing. Not keep the money the same and move it around, literally not pay them as much as they are scheduled to make.

How do you think NFL pay cuts work?