The Dean/Cine Hype Train

[Heismanberg]

Foster is also a felon. Twice over.

He also didn't play in a 4-3 or make defensive calls, but hey...all linebackers are the same.

[insanity]

What an argument you're making here.

Foster was a 3-4 inside backer at Alabama.  He did not have Mike responsibilities and he got into serious legal trouble that derailed his career before it could take off.

What does that matter? 
He was an all american, national champion linebacker.
who cares?

[Heismanberg]

This has become a waste of time.  If you want to talk actual football and linebacker play, I'm happy to.

But if you're just going to continue to spew "off ball linebacker" while comparing weakside 3-4 to hybrid 4-3, I just don't think you'll get it.

I don't care about PFF either.  Dean is ALWAYS in the right spot.  We don't have that on our defense.  If you have a Mike that can get your back seven lined up, your pass rush improves because the coverage is there. 

[Libero_2]

I am.  Players that are game changers

Once more and then I'm done with this.

-  I'm not saying a good linebacker isn't important I'm saying you don't need a 1st round Will let alone a top 5 WILL to be successful in this league. 
-  off ball linebackers are easier to find in the later rounds
-  Saleh has proven to be able to develop linebackers
- top pass rushers, cb, and olineman are the most important positions in the league, are in the shortest supply, and the top ones are usually high draft picks
-  we've had good linebackers on this team and our success doesn't rely on them being healthy it relies on being able to rush the passer something we haven't been able to do since Jon Abraham left
-  finally, if you told me Nakobe Dean was a lock down coverage linebacker who can stop tightends from running roughshod on us I would be all in for Dean top 10.  But he's not going to be able to do that because he's 6 flat and Mike gesicki, Mark Andrew's, tj hock, and all the other tightends we face next year are 6'5+

If I'm joe Douglas I'm planning to never pick in the top 10 again.  I'm trading up to get a blue chip pass rusher or I'm giving zach all the help he needs to be successful by surrounding him with probowl lineman and weapons because that is the key to our success. 

2 things, sometimes and elite player is an elite player (regardless of position) and we need to find elite players. Positional value absolutely matters. But a B+ talent at a “premium” position does not trump an A+ talent at a less valuable position. Annoyingly enough this draft seems to be “loaded” with the very best players playing less important positions outside of KT and AH. It’s a problem of this year, and in general I agree with your sentiment about positional value, but if there aren’t quality players there, don’t just take a suboptimal player because he’s at a more important position than a clearly more talented player.

I just want elite players, I want transcend any offensive playmakers, but with Williams getting hurt I’m not sure I see one right now.

[loyaljetsfan]

I'm not arguing he's a good player.

I'm arguing the top 2 things this team needs to do is help zach and improve our pass defense through coverage or sacks.

The players that do thay are CBs, o lineman, and pass rushers. 
The positions that are hardest to draft elite prospects are CBs, o linemans, and pass rushers.
I dont want to waste a top 10 pick on a position that is not essential and is the most likely to be injured in the nfl, and on a player who is undersized for covering tight ends.

Upgrading quincy Williams to Dean gets us what, maybe a 1 game improvement in or record?

Just because you draft a CB or EDGE in the top 10 doesn't automatically mean it pans out. See Dee Milliner, Vernon Gholston, the list goes on and on...

We need a sure thing with our first two picks, and it appears that the consensus is Dean fits that bill.

[loyaljetsfan]

2 things, sometimes and elite player is an elite player (regardless of position) and we need to find elite players. Positional value absolutely matters. But a B+ talent at a “premium” position does not trump an A+ talent at a less valuable position. Annoyingly enough this draft seems to be “loaded” with the very best players playing less important positions outside of KT and AH. It’s a problem of this year, and in general I agree with your sentiment about positional value, but if there aren’t quality players there, don’t just take a suboptimal player because he’s at a more important position than a clearly more talented player.

I just want elite players, I want transcend any offensive playmakers, but with Williams getting hurt I’m not sure I see one right now.

Beat me by 30 seconds.

THIS. THIS. THIS.

[Heismanberg]

Here's a Jets example:  Would you rather have Vernon Gholston or Jerod Mayo? 

Take the elite player

[Heismanberg]

We need a sure thing with our first two picks, and it appears that the consensus is Dean fits that bill.

I know Dean isn't at the Senior Bowl, but the best thing about our coaching staff running one team down there is that we can see who "fits the bill" -- you can tell who the best prospects are in padded drills and then later in the film room.

It's a fantastic opportunity for our franchise. 

[reuben]

Since you bring up Devin White and Roquan Smith

Say you're playing in the superbowl and you're told you are required to sit a probowl player

If you're the bucs are you sitting Shaq Barrett or Devin White?
If you're the bears are you sitting Khalil Mack or Roquan Smith?

The answer is clear and it proves the value of the position.

I don't know that anyone here would pass on drafting the next Khalil Mack over the next Luke Kuechly.  If Mack is there at 4 or 10, you take him.  But it would be substantially more foolish to take, for instance, a Marcus Davenport type over next-Kuechly because of positional value. 

[Heismanberg]

This draft is loaded, just not at QB. 

Is Stingley a better overall prospect than Dean?  On paper, yes because cornerback is a premium position. 

But what player is more impactful on the football field?  I'm taking Nakobe Dean. 

[insanity]

2 things, sometimes and elite player is an elite player (regardless of position) and we need to find elite players. Positional value absolutely matters. But a B+ talent at a “premium” position does not trump an A+ talent at a less valuable position. Annoyingly enough this draft seems to be “loaded” with the very best players playing less important positions outside of KT and AH. It’s a problem of this year, and in general I agree with your sentiment about positional value, but if there aren’t quality players there, don’t just take a suboptimal player because he’s at a more important position than a clearly more talented player.

I just want elite players, I want transcend any offensive playmakers, but with Williams getting hurt I’m not sure I see one right now.

100% agree.

Which is why I said we should use our capital to trade up 2 spots and get the guy we want or if no other player has the same draft grade trade down to acquire more capital and take dean if he is still there.

I have no problem with Dean.  He's a talented player, but will lbs have never been a make or break position on a team.

[Heismanberg]

“If he’s still there…”

[Badger]

TIL that linebackers can't make plays and they don't stop them from happening either

interesting

https://youtu.be/m4OvQIGDg4I

I tackle the running backs so the defensive backs don't have to... I'M A PEOPLE PERSON GOD DAMNIT

[CatoTheElder]

User name checks out.

[bojanglesman]

Thread title looks like Dean Cain appreciation thread.