Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in apartment

[hawk]

He was supposedly clean for almost 23 years until 2012 when he went to rehab.

Because the way you did it:

makes no sense at all in the context of the situation and the reality of addiction. Posts like the one you made are irrational and unhelpful to the millions of people who suffer from substance addictions, and to the perception of addicts by the rest of society. Addicts need help, not yelling at for their bad decisions. You're intelligent enough to know that.

So if he was clean for 23 years, he knew what he was doing when he picked it back up, right?  I would assume he had at least one of his 3 when he decided to pick it back up.  Are we gonna talk about how once an addict always an addict after 23 years? 

[Heismanberg]

Are we gonna talk about how once an addict always an addict after 23 years? 

Do you disagree with that?

[hawk]

Do you disagree with that?

YES

[Heismanberg]

YES

So you actually think that someone can stop being an addict? 

[hawk]

So you actually think that someone can stop being an addict?

YES, and I have experience with addiction.  At some point you overcome your addiction, and if you go back, you make a conscience decision to do it, not because you think you need it.

[dcm1602]

I think Hawk is wrong on this one.

I will say though that I think something like Heroin addiction is quite different from being say an alcoholic. If you're an alcoholic, id imagine it would be incredibly difficult to go 23 years without being around alcohol or being around people using alcohol.

So that temptation is frequently going to be right in front of your face even when youre doing the right thing. Mean while its far easier to avoid being around situations and people who are heroin users.

[Heismanberg]

YES, and I have experience with addiction.  At some point you overcome your addiction, and if you go back, you make a conscience decision to do it, not because you think you need it.

I don't think anyone ever overcomes an addiction.  I think some addicts have more will power and self-control than others.  Some just have a tighter hold on it. 

Not everyone is the same. 

[hawk]

I think Hawk is wrong on this one.

I will say though that I think something like Heroin addiction is quite different from being say an alcoholic. If you're an alcoholic, id imagine it would be incredibly difficult to go 23 years without being around alcohol or being around people using alcohol.

So that temptation is frequently going to be right in front of your face even when youre doing the right thing. Mean while its far easier to avoid being around situations and people who are heroin users.

That's fine. 

[hawk]

I don't think anyone ever overcomes an addiction.  I think some addicts have more will power and self-control than others.  Some just have a tighter hold on it. 

Not everyone is the same.

I am not suggesting that a addict can overcome an addiction and then start that addiction again with becoming addicted again.  If a person that is an alcoholic kicks alcoholism doesn't mean he can go and have a drink after 20 years.  I am suggesting that that person makes a conscience decision to take that drink, and it is no longer a need that it was during their sickness.

[Heismanberg]

I am suggesting that that person makes a conscience decision to take that drink, and it is no longer a need that it was during their sickness.

There's a lot working against them if there's a relapse.  Certain things are triggers.

[dcm1602]

YES, and I have experience with addiction.  At some point you overcome your addiction, and if you go back, you make a conscience decision to do it, not because you think you need it.

i agree that there is a conscience decision to go back, but that doesnt mean that the addiction went away.

If you smoked marijuana for 10 years then quit. Years later youre at a party and smell someone smoking it, youre going to be tempted. The addiction is still there, just to be clean youre in control of it.

You had a point, I just think the way you said it was wrong.

Rather than the addiction going away (which its relatively unanimous from experts that it never does), after 23 years clean from the stuff he should know how to avoid people and situations where the stuff is used. Avoiding being around and tempted by alcohol, cigarettes, etc is pretty hard to do. Avoiding being around people and places where heroin  are used, not nearly as hard.

[hawk]

There's a lot working against them if there's a relapse.  Certain things are triggers.

Ask any addict if they use those triggers as an excuse.  Ask a reformed addict if those same triggers are an excuse. 

[hawk]

i agree that there is a conscience decision to go back, but that doesnt mean that the addiction went away.

If you smoked marijuana for 10 years then quit. Years later youre at a party and smell someone smoking it, youre going to be tempted. The addiction is still there, just to be clean youre in control of it.

You had a point, I just think the way you said it was wrong.

Rather than the addiction going away (which its relatively unanimous from experts that it never does), after 23 years clean from the stuff he should know how to avoid people and situations where the stuff is used. Avoiding being around and tempted by alcohol, cigarettes, etc is pretty hard to do. Avoiding being around people and places where heroin  are used, not nearly as hard.

The experts.  LOL

What is your addiction?

[Johnny English]

YES, and I have experience with addiction.  At some point you overcome your addiction, and if you go back, you make a conscience decision to do it, not because you think you need it.

That's not correct, at all. You don't "overcome" an opiate addiction, in a successful recovery you learn to control the desires and urges but it's always there. As Heismanberg said, everyone has triggers. Support programmes such as AA/NA are essential for many people because when the urges become strong, the successfully recovering addict can call upon others who know where they're at mentally and use them as a crutch to help them through the urge. I suspect it's rather more difficult for an A-list Hollywood actor to bring himself to just pop in to his local NA meeting when he is in a bad place.

I don't care how long he'd been sober, he was still an addict. It is highly unlikely that he thought, "Well, it's been twenty years. I'm fine to go and have a dig again now, surely?"

[dcm1602]

The experts.  LOL

What is your addiction?

You even said it yourself, a clean alcoholic cant just have a drink after 20 years..

Therefore the addiction didnt go away.

That doesnt absolve them of personal responsibility for their actions, and they still need to make that decision to have another drink.