The All American Automotive Thread

[Ignatius J Reilly]

I don't believe I'd ever shopped for a car that didn't have a holdback. How do you know which manufacturers don't have it?

Euro companies either don't have one or it's minimal (Mercedes is like 1%).  Scion also doesn't have one because it's no hassle pricing.  I'm sure there's a list somewhere, though.  Most American auto companies are 3%.  Maybe all.

EDIT:  Here's a list.  Apparently Lincoln doesn't have a holdback, but Mercury is the standard 3.  Weird.  And Volkswagen is actually 2%, which is big for a Euro automaker.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/dealer-holdback/

[Pope]

Never pay what the sticker price is. For most cars you get away with invoice or less if you do your homework and are patient. Some dealerships won't bother to work with you, while others are more than willing.

In order from highest to lowest price:

Dealer Markup (If you buy a car at this price, you're a chump. AKA the MBGreen price)
MSRP (Slightly less of a chump, but a chump nonetheless)
Invoice (Perfectly acceptable. If you're $500 over invoice, it's kind of a win/win for the dealer/buyer. No one gets screwed)
Hold-Back (Reserve that the dealers don't let the consumer know exists, and probably 95% consumers don't. If you play your cards right, this is the best case scenario and completely realistic.)
Dealership Cost (Congratulations, you just raped the dealership. Please tell me, how did you do it?)

I'm aware of that but thanks for the info.. wasn't too aware of the hold-back. For me it was more a case of not wanting to ruffle feathers on the final price when I'm not even close to buying.

[Fenwyr]

So what you're saying is that cars you own and maintain are fine, but cars that are driven by different people literally every single day are less so? Funny, that.

Try it this way round. If American cars were so crappy and unreliable, they'd break down more often. If they broke down more often, they'd need more servicing and be less available for hire. Therefore, they would be less lucrative a hire vehicle. It stands to reason then that American cars are actually pretty reliable for the simple reason that they're used as hire cars. And taxis, come to think of it.

The thing you're missing is that they only rent the car out for 2-3 years (max) before selling it to some chump as a certified pre-owned.  I don't care if a pack of 800 pound gorillas are training it in that time frame...  the drive should not be that crappy.

Taxis are another story entirely.  Nothing standard on those bad boys.

[Coach K]

The worst rental car I ever got was a Toyota Corolla. We drove off the lot with it, got maybe a mile down the street, then Enterprise called us back and upgraded us to a Buick LaCrosse for free (they found out we were getting married and figured we should get something better).

Besides that, since 2012 I've rented an Avenger, an Equinox, a Liberty, and an Altima. All were fine but none could touch the LaCrosse. It was like driving a cloud.

Like I said my favorite car I ever owned was a Buick.

Too bad someone felt the need to total it

[SixFeetDeep]

I will say that driving my car in the snow sucks.  I want to eventually get a 4wd Acura. They only make the TSX in 2wd, correct? is the TL the smallest car with 4wd?

[SixFeetDeep]

The worst rental car I ever got was a Toyota Corolla. We drove off the lot with it, got maybe a mile down the street, then Enterprise called us back and upgraded us to a Buick LaCrosse for free (they found out we were getting married and figured we should get something better).

Besides that, since 2012 I've rented an Avenger, an Equinox, a Liberty, and an Altima. All were fine but none could touch the LaCrosse. It was like driving a cloud.

my first job out of school was for a rental car company. One of the only good parts of the job was that I got to drive almost every make and model conceivable.  Sometimes for rentals, it's not about the model of car it is that determines how it drives, but it's time in service and how much past customers beat up on it. Most rentals would only last a little over a year or a certain amount of milage before it would get pulled from the fleet and sold back to the automobile manufacturer.

In my short time there, I experienced the most mechanical and maintenance problems with Dodge and Chevy. Fords were nothing short of spectacular, I was particularly fond of the fusion, edge, explorer and mustang.

[Johnny English]

I will say that driving my car in the snow sucks.  I want to eventually get a 4wd Acura. They only make the TSX in 2wd, correct? is the TL the smallest car with 4wd?

In Europe the Acura TSX is the Honda Accord. True fact.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

The thing you're missing is that they only rent the car out for 2-3 years (max) before selling it to some chump as a certified pre-owned.  I don't care if a pack of 800 pound gorillas are training it in that time frame...  the drive should not be that crappy.

Taxis are another story entirely.  Nothing standard on those bad boys.

Rental cars in general are terrible, but I don't believe I've ever owned a car that was also used as a standard rental car.  The models tend to be the poorest available unless you pony up for a better class.  Either way, Detroit was rather terrible for years.  It's great to see them coming back, but obviously it'll take time to convince a lot of people that it's true.  All it took was one ride to get two different people interested in ditching a BMW and a Toyota Avalon for the Fusion.  My dad picks up his today.  It's identical to mine but with Driver Assist and ACC tacked on.  My friend is trying to figure out if he can get out of his BMW quite yet, but he's been working with multiple dealers to do so.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

my first job out of school was for a rental car company. One of the only good parts of the job was that I got to drive almost every make and model conceivable.  Sometimes for rentals, it's not about the model of car it is that determines how it drives, but it's time in service and how much past customers beat up on it. Most rentals would only last a little over a year or a certain amount of milage before it would get pulled from the fleet and sold back to the automobile manufacturer.

In my short time there, I experienced the most mechanical and maintenance problems with Dodge and Chevy. Fords were nothing short of spectacular, I was particularly fond of the fusion, edge, explorer and mustang.

I wouldn't have bought a Chevy before the last go around.  I'm still not sure I would have, although I do like the new Camaro and the idea of the Volt.  I still don't like Dodge, but I rented a Charger in Maui a couple of years ago and it was a decent drive.

[klaximilian]

I'm aware of that but thanks for the info.. wasn't too aware of the hold-back. For me it was more a case of not wanting to ruffle feathers on the final price when I'm not even close to buying.

I figured, but I bring up the hold-back because what most don't know about usually is the difference of a few thousand dollars. The more you know...

[Pope]

I'm looking at 2010-2011 Audi A6 and S4. Can be had in the mid 20s. Want to take a few for a test drive once the snow dissipates.

[Johnny English]

I'm looking at 2010-2011 Audi A6 and S4. Can be had in the mid 20s. Want to take a few for a test drive once the snow dissipates.

I had the A3 with the soft turbo a few years ago and it was the most dreary vehicle I've ever had to live with, although I believe that recent Audis are supposed to be much better driving experiences.

[Pope]

I had the A3 with the soft turbo a few years ago and it was the most dreary vehicle I've ever had to live with, although I believe that recent Audis are supposed to be much better driving experiences.

I want to check out the 3.0T. Not too crazy about performance. I prefer creature comforts and satnav at this point. If I wanted to have fun I'd get a motorcycle.

[Fenwyr]

Like I said my favorite car I ever owned was a Buick.

Too bad someone felt the need to total it

My 325i was murdered by a windows delivery truck at 4mph.

Word of advice...  Always ask if your car could be screwed if you get an insurance estimate.

[Fenwyr]

I want to check out the 3.0T. Not too crazy about performance. I prefer creature comforts and satnav at this point. If I wanted to have fun I'd get a motorcycle.

GE just gave my dad an A5 when he retired.  He loves it, but it's useless in the weather they are getting up there.