Jets new HC search

[Miamipuck]

No, I'm talking about the fact that being good at doing something and conveying it to others are two totally different things.

This is very true.

[ScotlandJet]

Which attribute did you so generously tick off for him? I can't really see one where he is adequate.

Preparation
Fail to prepare - Prepare to fail
You can't argue that Gase has always planned to fail.

[Derek Smalls]

Here's a crazy idea: award compensatory picks to teams that hire black coaches.

It addresses all the problems. You're not going to just hire an underqualified candidate just to pick up a couple of 3rd rounders, but you're rewarded if you decide that the best choice of a bunch of candidates happens to be a POC.

I think the NFL has decided that the pipeline of black coaches isn't what it should be for whatever reason. This incentivizes teams to actually start grooming young black coaches, give them promotions to coordinator spots, give them assistant HC gigs.

There's no perfect answer, but this seems meant to address the root issue more than just throwing picks at teams for hiring any black coach.

[SixFeetDeep]

I think the NFL has decided that the pipeline of black coaches isn't what it should be for whatever reason. This incentivizes teams to actually start grooming young black coaches, give them promotions to coordinator spots, give them assistant HC gigs.

There's no perfect answer, but this seems meant to address the root issue more than just throwing picks at teams for hiring any black coach.

The NCAA has the same issue as the NFL. Since we’re not hiring former NFL players straight from retirement into HC and coordinator roles, that pipeline needs to be addressed as well. Last I saw the NCAA has 15% black HCs.

[Italian Seafood]

No, I'm talking about the fact that being good at doing something and conveying it to others are two totally different things.

It can go both ways. One of my favorite things about Herm was he made his way from an undrafted free agent to a starter in the NFL and then a head coach. I think if you're a player you have to at least respect that. There's also the idea that guys without a ton of physical skill have to understand the game better to compete because they can't just dominate on talent alone. I've known guys in basketball who could just jump over people and do amazing things, that don't always understand why anyone else can't do the same.

[AlioTheFool]

I think the NFL has decided that the pipeline of black coaches isn't what it should be for whatever reason. This incentivizes teams to actually start grooming young black coaches, give them promotions to coordinator spots, give them assistant HC gigs.

There's no perfect answer, but this seems meant to address the root issue more than just throwing picks at teams for hiring any black coach.

Yeah, and I can understand that. But the problem is, this creates motivation to groom guys, but no motivation to hire them--and possibly a negative. You certainly won't have division rivals making hires that award compensation to rivals. You will probably see balking at hiring someone even in the same conference.

It just doesn't seem to provide enough motivation in a positive direction. Maybe both the hiring team and the team that groomed him get something?

[MBGreen]

Adding draft compensation into this scenario is absurd.  Potential coaches should be groomed on their potential and merit, no matter the skin color.  I know there are executives who are racist, but this isn't the way to correct it.


As a jets fan, i'd be livid if our division rivals kept receiving 3rd round compensatory picks because they all decided to become minority coaching factories.  Remember, you can trade compensatory picks now.  Which becomes an issue if our rivals are using them as currency to jump ahead of us on the draft board.

[Derek Smalls]

Yeah, and I can understand that. But the problem is, this creates motivation to groom guys, but no motivation to hire them--and possibly a negative. You certainly won't have division rivals making hires that award compensation to rivals. You will probably see balking at hiring someone even in the same conference.

It just doesn't seem to provide enough motivation in a positive direction. Maybe both the hiring team and the team that groomed him get something?

Because if you actually gave draft picks to teams for hiring black coaches over white coaches, I think people like MJ who complain about these policies promoting discrimination would actually have a point. I don't think that's really tenable.

[CatoTheElder]

Adding draft compensation into this scenario is absurd.  Potential coaches should be groomed on their potential and merit, no matter the skin color.  I know there are executives who are racist, but this isn't the way to correct it..

They should be, but...

[MBGreen]

They should be, but...

I think SFD is right...this is a bigger issue in the NCAA. 

[CatoTheElder]

I think SFD is right...this is a bigger issue in the NCAA. 

Doesn't mean that this issue shouldn't be fixed in the NFL.

[MBGreen]

Doesn't mean that this issue shouldn't be fixed in the NFL.

I never said that.


But throwing draft compenation at the issue is ridiculous.

[Italian Seafood]

I never said that.

[mj2sexay]

Granted it was Yogi Berra in the context he was discussing it, but Jim Bouton in Ball Four actually goes into the difficulty of pro athletes becoming coaches because they can't comprehend how hard it is for those who don't have their physical attributes. The idea that its automatically translatable is ridiculous, and the idea that everything needs to become racially balanced in the ultimate meritocracy of football defeats the idea of winning at all costs. Building on Jumbo's point (and again, sorry for the kiss of death Jumbo) but I guess we'll now extend this to awarding teams draft compensation with white running backs.

NFL executives might be racist, they might not. No one knows that despite thinking they have the ability to peer into someone elses soul. But I'd lay 100 against a 10 right now (and granted we'll never know) that without this initiative even the most ardently racist owner with an opening this off-season is running to hire Bieniemy (he was getting a job after this year). David Shaw might very well post two dismal seasons in a row at Stanford and if he wanted to signal that he was ready to make the jump, I'm sure the Jaguars, Jets, Lions, Texans and whoever else has an opening this year or will presumably have an opening would at least want to talk to him.

Because if you actually gave draft picks to teams for hiring black coaches over white coaches, I think people like MJ who complain about these policies promoting discrimination would actually have a point. I don't think that's really tenable.

Only people like me, forget that California just rejected every race based discriminatory initiative on their ballot.

There's no question this specific policy promotes race based discrimination, but it passed. I wonder if the Chargers decide to fire Anthony Lynn if they look past the absurdity of the Chiefs getting TWO third rounders and hire Bieniemy anyway. Be a shame if he missed out on the chance to go to an attractive situation because of this absolute horseshit, and instead settled to go coach Jacksonville.

[Johnny English]

Granted it was Yogi Berra in the context he was discussing it, but Jim Bouton in Ball Four actually goes into the difficulty of pro athletes becoming coaches because they can't comprehend how hard it is for those who don't have their physical attributes. The idea that its automatically translatable is ridiculous, and the idea that everything needs to become racially balanced in the ultimate meritocracy of football defeats the idea of winning at all costs. Building on Jumbo's point (and again, sorry for the kiss of death Jumbo) but I guess we'll now extend this to awarding teams draft compensation with white running backs.

NFL executives might be racist, they might not. No one knows that despite thinking they have the ability to peer into someone elses soul. But I'd lay 100 against a 10 right now (and granted we'll never know) that without this initiative even the most ardently racist owner with an opening this off-season is running to hire Bieniemy (he was getting a job after this year). David Shaw might very well post two dismal seasons in a row at Stanford and if he wanted to signal that he was ready to make the jump, I'm sure the Jaguars, Jets, Lions, Texans and whoever else has an opening this year or will presumably have an opening would at least want to talk to him.

My suspicion is that it's less to do with the NFL execs or indeed anyone else being specifically racist, and more to do with the fact that so many coaches work their way up from being assistants, interns and grunts, and that so many of those roles in schools and even NFL teams are given out based upon someone's daddy having worked with someone else's and some strings getting pulled. For the vast majority of minority coaches that route isn't available, so success as a player is pretty much the only option - I haven't looked at the numbers, but it would be my suspicion that the proportion of minority coaches who played at a very high level would be much higher than the number of white coaches who did. So it's not a problem so much of execs not wanting to hire minorities as much as it is minorities not getting the ground level opportunities, because they don't have the connections to get them.