Author Topic: "Toxic" Jets  (Read 7182 times)

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Italian Seafood

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2014, 10:39:06 AM »
Rex can't win. He either doesn't care about the offense or he's interfering with what the genius wants to do. Do they not talk to these OCs before they hire them? It's not like Marty wasn't in the league a long time before he got here.
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Heismanberg

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2014, 10:44:09 AM »
First off, you don't snipe your boss behind his back. Second, he's been doing whatever he wants every week despite his head coach demanding he do otherwise. That kind of flies in the face of the whole "Rex doesn't put any attention into the offense" BS we've been hearing all these years.

Questions: 

If your boss is incompetent, then why can't you talk behind his back?  I highly doubt Marty wanted some anonymous player source to come out and tell some hack reporter that he's been bad-mouthing Rex Ryan behind the scenes.

Who's fault is it that Mornhinweg has been allowed to do his own thing? 

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Marty wanted Geno. He got Geno. He wanted to throw. So he threw. He needed more weapons so he got Decker, CJ, and Amaro to add to Ivory, Kerley, and Cumberland and when that wasn't enough he got Harvin.

Except for Chris Ivory, none of the players you mentioned are that great.  Johnson, Decker, Harvin, and Kerley are role players.  Jeff Cumberland is awful.  Not even sure why you mentioned him.  With a decent QB, I'm sure the wideout production would be much better, but these guys are not world-beaters. 

You're blaming an OC for doing his job.  You're also blaming him for personnel moves that John Idzik is responsible for.  I don't think this was a solid hire, but not sure what we can expect from him.  Like I said earlier, Ryan gets all kinds of passes for having "nothing" to work with on defense.  I'm surprised an experienced OC took this dumpster fire of a job. 

Rex Ryan hired him along with his scheme.  He should be allowed to run it.  I've seen too many of you complain about play-calling for years (I'm guilty of it too).  It's on the head coach at this point.  Rex has had three different offensive coordinators and none of them have worked out. 

You can't win consistently in this league if you can't throw the football consistently.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 10:50:29 AM by Heismanberg »
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Heismanberg

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2014, 10:44:43 AM »
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Heismanberg

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2014, 10:50:01 AM »
Did you read the article? Its not that he called a terrible game vs the Dolphins; he and Rex are clearly butting heads and the article depicts them not being on the same page for almost the entire season. It goes on to say that running the ball 49 times wasnt Rex's way of getting back at Idzik, but more so Marty's way at getting back at Rex for constantly insisting against a pass first offense.

According to some anonymous sources (including an opposing general manager)...

What kind of sources does Thomas George have?  Who in the hell is Thomas George? 

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This team is torn. Everyone has to go. Idzik, Rex, Marty, Bradway... burn it to the ground. There clearly is a fucked up environment. Players are even calling out the GM for not doing his job. The HC and OC dont trust or support each other. Every relationship is probably broken. Even if Rex is fired, and Idzik stays.... who is going to want to come here in this dysfunctional environment led by a GM that was out to get his HC and didnt put the best team possible on the field? Harbaugh? Yeah right, he's not going from SF where he didnt get along with management, to NY where something very similar is currently happening.

If you actually think that John Idzik sabotaged Rex Ryan, then Puck has a bridge to sell you. 

There was no sabotage.  Both guys just suck at their jobs.
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Miamipuck

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2014, 10:57:01 AM »
Rex can't win. He either doesn't care about the offense or he's interfering with what the genius wants to do. Do they not talk to these OCs before they hire them? It's not like Marty wasn't in the league a long time before he got here.

At what point do you blame Rex for at least some of the pitfalls that befell the Jets?

Edit: That's a serious question, not trying to be a smart derriere.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 11:03:11 AM by Miamipuck »
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Miamipuck

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2014, 11:02:17 AM »
According to some anonymous sources (including an opposing general manager)...

What kind of sources does Thomas George have?  Who in the hell is Thomas George? 

If you actually think that John Idzik sabotaged Rex Ryan, then Puck has a bridge to sell you. 

There was no sabotage.  Both guys just suck at their jobs.

I actually think there was a sabotage. If you don't like the term then maybe try disservice. Idzik has done nothing to foster culture, the roster, and improve things to the point where any coach (not just Rex) could be successful. Was it willful sabotage, maybe/maybe not. However, where there's smoke there's fire and the smoke signals sure point to sabotage and/or like you said an incompetence the Jets haven't had since the Rich Kotite days.
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Italian Seafood

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2014, 11:03:54 AM »
At what point do you blame Rex for at least some of the pitfalls that befell the Jets?

He certainly has responsibility to get the right OC and let him do his job, which I think he's tried to do. So he gets part of the blame but I don't think he should be fired for that. It's not uncommon for coaches to butt heads, a lot of it gets back to talent. It's like the old Paul Hackett thing we were just talking about, everyone wanted his head on a stick until Pennington got in there and suddenly we're putting up 30 and 40 points.

We don't have a QB, we rarely pass protect well, if a ball isn't perfectly thrown it is dropped. There isn't an OC who can make that happen until we get better players, just like Rex's defense doesn't look so good when guys off the street are playing CB. Fire all the coaches you want, if you clear $20 million off your cap and waste 10 or 11 of your 12 draft picks, you're going to lose a lot more than you win. I don't care if you hire Bill Walsh to run the offense and Jesus to run the D.
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Re: &quot;Toxic&quot; Jets
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2014, 11:06:53 AM »
Questions: 

If your boss is incompetent, then why can't you talk behind his back?  I highly doubt Marty wanted some anonymous player source to come out and tell some hack reporter that he's been bad-mouthing Rex Ryan behind the scenes.

Who's fault is it that Mornhinweg has been allowed to do his own thing? 

As far as Rex is concerned I don't think Marty has the grounds to think he's incompetent let alone vocalize that thought.

If Rex doesn't get involved with the offense at all, then Marty has no point. If Rex IS making mandates on how he runs the offense, what do you think Marty could possibly be doing differently/better? We all know who sought after Geno and you said yourself that Idzik hasn't provided the pieces necessary for a functional offense.

This isn't meant to be a defense of Rex in general - I just don't understand what right Marty has to complain about Rex.

Heismanberg

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2014, 11:08:16 AM »
I actually think there was a sabotage. If you don't like the term then maybe try disservice. Idzik has done nothing to foster culture, the roster, and improve things to the point where any coach (not just Rex) could be successful. Was it willful sabotage, maybe/maybe not. However, where there's smoke there's fire and the smoke signals sure point to sabotage and/or like you said an incompetence the Jets haven't had since the Rich Kotite days.

It's not John Idzik's fault that Dee Milliner and Dexter McDougle suffered season-ending injuries.  That's a key weakness on the roster right now.  Stuff like that cannot be planned.

QB play is the top issue right now and he tried to fix that problem with Geno Smith and Michael Vick.  Those moves and his inability to find any kind of talent in the mid-to-late rounds of the draft should get cost him his job. 
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Heismanberg

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2014, 11:12:41 AM »
As far as Rex is concerned I don't think Marty has the grounds to think he's incompetent let alone vocalize that thought.

I just don't understand what right Marty has to complain about Rex.

Considering a lot of the defensive gameplans have been trash, it's probably frustrating to hear a disinterested HC make dumb suggestions on a weekly basis. 

Ryan brought him in to call the game a certain way and when things haven't gone right, he says stupid things about running the football more.  It's common sense to throw the ball against loaded fronts.  Geno Smith is just a terrible player.

Quote
If Rex IS making mandates on how he runs the offense, what do you think Marty could possibly be doing differently/better?

I'm not sure things can be done differently if Geno Smith is starting at QB.  The offense was clearly functioning better with Vick running it.  ...but even that offense was awful. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 11:15:10 AM by Heismanberg »
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Italian Seafood

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2014, 11:16:58 AM »
It's not John Idzik's fault that Dee Milliner and Dexter McDougle suffered season-ending injuries.  That's a key weakness on the roster right now.  Stuff like that cannot be planned.

QB play is the top issue right now and he tried to fix that problem with Geno Smith and Michael Vick.  Those moves and his inability to find any kind of talent in the mid-to-late rounds of the draft should get cost him his job. 

Especially when his primary strategy was to build through he draft and stock up on picks. If that's your strategy you need to know what you're doing in the draft. They're not all going to make the team and contribute but you can't miss on all of them.

Regarding CB, he couldn't do anything about the injuries but he did draft two guys at the same position who had a history of being injured. Not to mention we already had two of the best CBs in the game when he got here, he traded one and cut the other. Turned our greatest strength into our greatest weakness, there is nobody to blame for that but him. Pretty sure Rex wasn't on board with that one.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 11:19:09 AM by Italian Seafood »
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Heismanberg

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2014, 11:19:05 AM »
Cornerback isn't our greatest weakness
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Italian Seafood

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2014, 11:20:32 AM »
Cornerback isn't our greatest weakness

If not it's very close, considering the defense we run. And again, it was the strength of the team when Idzik got here. We can argue all winter again about the Revis trade if you feel like it, but why cut Cromartie?
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ons

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2014, 11:24:47 AM »
If not it's very close, considering the defense we run. And again, it was the strength of the team when Idzik got here. We can argue all winter again about the Revis trade if you feel like it, but why cut Cromartie?

Cro was trash last year. His 2013 was worse than any single season our corners are having this year. Turns out it probably was the hip injury and apparently he's doing better this year, but thinking he was on his way out was pretty reasonable.

Italian Seafood

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Re: "Toxic" Jets
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2014, 11:33:07 AM »
Cro was trash last year. His 2013 was worse than any single season our corners are having this year. Turns out it probably was the hip injury and apparently he's doing better this year, but thinking he was on his way out was pretty reasonable.

Turned out to be wrong. He would easily be the best player at the position on our roster, we had him signed and we cut him. Same thing with Sanchez. You can point out their flaws all day, they are better players than we currently have at their positions, which is why our team is now worse than it was when they were here. Again, fire all the coaches you want, we have inferior players.
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