LOLGIANTS

[Italian Seafood]

I almost felt bad for Beckham and the Giant fans, then I think back to Christmas 2011 and nah.

Hate to see guys get hurt though, much rather see them dropping passes and blaming each other.

[sg3]

What a job by Macc (other than the Snacks foulup)

Not only improved the Jets but saddled the LOLGiants with Dropsies Johnson and GeNO SMITH

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

[MBGreen]

What a job by Macc (other than the Snacks foulup)

Not only improved the Jets but saddled the LOLGiants with Dropsies Johnson and GeNO SMITH

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

the hackenberg foul up was worse.

But so far, he's done a decent job.  Let's see how the rest of the season plays out.

[insanity]

What a job by Macc (other than the Snacks foulup)

Not only improved the Jets but saddled the LOLGiants with Dropsies Johnson and GeNO SMITH

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

Except Mac made the right choice with Snacks.  As it currently stands Snacks only plays 60% of the defensive snaps compared to Mo's 82%.  Snacks' numbers would be even lower if he was on a Bowles team that likes to primarily play in a nickel defense.

Additionally a DT with Snack's skillset and pricetag isn't as necessary in a 3-4 defense as it is in a 4-3.  Mo hasn't been the player he was pre-injury/contract, but its a moot point when paying a NT $10 million dollars will never be in the budget for the defensive scheme that Bowles runs.  Opting for Mo shows that Mac has the discipline to say no to luxuries this team doesn't need.

[Johnny English]

Additionally a DT with Snack's skillset and pricetag isn't as necessary in a 3-4 defense as it is in a 4-3.

How is a 2 gap nose tackle less important in a 3 man front than a 4?

[insanity]

How is a 2 gap nose tackle less important in a 3 man front than a 4?

Not less important, but the type of player is easier to find because he doesn't need to be multiple in the things he needs to do.  It's great to have a NT that can penetrate and put pressure on the QB, but that's not what the position really entails.  Your job is to take on blockers to allow the backers to roam around give your des better match ups.  This changes a little bit based on what scheme your defense plays 2 gap vs 1 gap, but most 3-4 teams play the usual 2 gap scheme.

[sg3]

the hackenberg foul up was worse.

But so far, he's done a decent job.  Let's see how the rest of the season plays out.

Not to be schoolmarmly but

The post was about Jet/Midget transactions

Which include Harrison LOSS
Marshall WIN
GeNO YUUGE WIN
Tye Loss

But not Bustenberg

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

[Johnny English]

Not less important, but the type of player is easier to find because he doesn't need to be multiple in the things he needs to do.  It's great to have a NT that can penetrate and put pressure on the QB, but that's not what the position really entails.  Your job is to take on blockers to allow the backers to roam around give your des better match ups.  This changes a little bit based on what scheme your defense plays 2 gap vs 1 gap, but most 3-4 teams play the usual 2 gap scheme.

I don't understand your point at all. You appear to be trying to justify us letting him walk on the basis that he has fewer snaps in a scheme that's less suited to his abilities than the one he left. I'm not saying that at the time it wasn't understandable that they chose to put the money elsewhere, but trying to claim that it was a good decision for us to let him walk because he wasn't so scheme suitable is frankly bizarre.

[insanity]

I don't understand your point at all. You appear to be trying to justify us letting him walk on the basis that he has fewer snaps in a scheme that's less suited to his abilities than the one he left. I'm not saying that at the time it wasn't understandable that they chose to put the money elsewhere, but trying to claim that it was a good decision for us to let him walk because he wasn't so scheme suitable is frankly bizarre.

A nose tackle in a 3-4 scheme plays significantly less snaps than in a 4-3 scheme.  Add to fact that Bowles runs more 5 and 6 db fronts than most coaches (fronts which Harrison wouldn't play in) the right decision was made in letting Harrison walk.

Our scheme isn't suitable to pay Harrison the salary he demanded, which is that of a 4-3 dt.  The money he demanded should have rightfully been saved or invested into a position that has a higher importance for our team, or in a position that demands a higher per year average (think De, olb, o-line). This is because in a salary cap league there is an opportunity cost for every dollar spent.  While Harrison would have been a great player to keep and he would have undoubtedly improved our run defense, the going rate for a top tier NT is much less than the yearly average and signing bonus he was asking for.

[Johnny English]

A nose tackle in a 3-4 scheme plays significantly less snaps than in a 4-3 scheme.  Add to fact that Bowles runs more 5 and 6 db fronts than most coaches (fronts which Harrison wouldn't play in) the right decision was made in letting Harrison walk.

Our scheme isn't suitable to pay Harrison the salary he demanded, which is that of a 4-3 dt.  The money he demanded should have rightfully been saved or invested into a position that has a higher importance for our team, or in a position that demands a higher per year average (think De, olb, o-line). This is because in a salary cap league there is an opportunity cost for every dollar spent.  While Harrison would have been a great player to keep and he would have undoubtedly improved our run defense, the going rate for a top tier NT is much less than the yearly average and signing bonus he was asking for.

Firstly, Harrison's % of snaps played at the Giants is pretty similar to his time at the Jets. It's more of a situational call than it is scheme-dependent; a 350lb man isn't going to be able to play every snap, and you're not going to put him out there on obvious passing downs regardless of the front.

Secondly, % of snaps played is a pretty poor tool to use to determine player value. The importance of the player to your scheme, his role in it, and the ease with which he can be replaced in that scheme are the main considerations, and as hindsight is neatly demonstrating the decision to let him walk was not a good one. I don't really see how you can make any sensible argument otherwise.

[insanity]

Firstly, Harrison's % of snaps played at the Giants is pretty similar to his time at the Jets. It's more of a situational call than it is scheme-dependent; a 350lb man isn't going to be able to play every snap, and you're not going to put him out there on obvious passing downs regardless of the front.

1. Last year Harrison played 160 more snaps than what he averaged as a starter with the Jets.  His snap % is even higher in 2017
2. The fact that you are putting him out there on the field less is exactly why the jets shouldn't value him as highly as a 4-3 team does. 

NYJ

• 2013 - 45% (499)
• 2014 - 48% (485)
• 2015 - 54% (565)

NYG

• 2016 - 61% (673)
• 2017 - 63%

Secondly, % of snaps played is a pretty poor tool to use to determine player value. The importance of the player to your scheme, his role in it, and the ease with which he can be replaced in that scheme are the main considerations, and as hindsight is neatly demonstrating the decision to let him walk was not a good one. I don't really see how you can make any sensible argument otherwise.

Let me explain it in another context then.  I'm using % of snaps played as a proxy for how useful the players skillset is to the team. 
     The more valuable a players skill set is, the more valuable he is to the team.
     The more valuable a player is to the team, the more the team is going to be willing to pay him.

Below are the top 25 salaries of DTs in the league.  The players listed in red play nose tackle for 3-4 teams

2017 Defensive Tackle Average Rankings
1   Ndamukong Suh   $19,062,500    
2   Fletcher Cox   $17,100,000       
3   Kawann Short   $16,100,000       
4   Marcell Dareus   $16,095,686
5   Gerald McCoy   $15,866,667
6   Jurrell Casey   $15,100,000
7   Malik Jackson   $14,250,000
8   Linval Joseph   $12,587,500
9   Michael Brockers   $11,083,333
10   Geno Atkins   $10,665,400
11   Brandon Williams   $10,500,000
12   Mike Daniels   $10,250,000
   Corey Liuget   $10,250,000
14   Damon Harrison   $9,250,000       
15   Johnathan Hankins   $9,000,000
16   Bennie Logan   $8,000,000    
        Dontari Poe   $8,000,000
18   Kyle Williams   $7,433,333
19   Nick Fairley   $7,000,000
20   Haloti Ngata   $6,000,000
21   Sylvester Williams   $5,833,333
22   Chris Baker   $5,250,000
23   Stacy McGee   $5,000,000
24   DeForest Buckner   $4,547,749
25   Derrick Shelby   $4,500,000

Out of the top 25 paid Dts in the league only 2 are Nose tackles for 3-4 teams.

• Bennie Logan - A 1 year prove-it contract that is 14% lower than Harrison's yearly salary, not to mention $16MM less guaranteed
• Sylvester Williams - Contract is <6MM a year (37% lower than Harrison's) and is only guaranteed for $7MM compared to Harrison's $24MM

(You could argue Michael Brockers is now a 3-4 NT, but his deal was based on him playing in a 4-3 scheme which as you can see gets paid more)

Net-Net: 3-4 schemed teams historically don't shell out cash for nose tackles.  The next highest paid nose tackles are Domata Peko (#30), Steve Mclendon (#31), and Corey Peters (#33) all of which make less than $3.8MM a year. You can disagree with my argument about value based on playing time, but contracts show 3-4 teams don't see the value in spending big money on nts.  $9.25MM a year is way over market value for a 3-4 NT, even if its Damon Harrison, which is why letting Harrison walk was a good move by Mac.

[Johnny English]

I agree that paying him $9M a year might seemexcessive, but then we wouldn't have had to if we'd extended him prior to his contract expiring. Still, even if we had paid him $9M per I think I can make a pretty convincing case with the benefit of hindsight for locking up the league's #1 player against the run and a cornerstone of what made our defensive front so good; after all, wouldn't you rather be paying Snacks $9M per annum at the moment than paying Wilkerson $14M plus bonuses? If you keep Snacks at $9M and let Wilkerson hit FA instead you're saving $12M against the cap (because you're also not paying Steve McLendon's salary). It's OK to pay someone like the best at their position when they're actually the best at their position.

Seems like an easy decision to me, but then I have the benefit of hindsight. It seems a little remiss of the front office to not recognise the importance of Harrison to the Jets' defense.

[insanity]

I agree that paying him $9M a year might seemexcessive, but then we wouldn't have had to if we'd extended him prior to his contract expiring. Still, even if we had paid him $9M per I think I can make a pretty convincing case with the benefit of hindsight for locking up the league's #1 player against the run and a cornerstone of what made our defensive front so good; after all, wouldn't you rather be paying Snacks $9M per annum at the moment than paying Wilkerson $14M plus bonuses? If you keep Snacks at $9M and let Wilkerson hit FA instead you're saving $12M against the cap (because you're also not paying Steve McLendon's salary). It's OK to pay someone like the best at their position when they're actually the best at their position.

Seems like an easy decision to me, but then I have the benefit of hindsight. It seems a little remiss of the front office to not recognise the importance of Harrison to the Jets' defense.

The extension prior to the contract ending is a moot point.  You don't know if we tried or not, he may have wanted to test free agency.  And, it is unfair to look at it the decision with hindsight bias. 

Last offseason Duff was tasked with the decision on whether he should pay one of the best nose tackles in the game 3.7x the average rate of a starting NT. (I did the math)

He decided against it and invested in Steve Mclendon whose annual costs amount to ~1/3 of the price, and guaranteed contract is 1/11 of Harrisons.  With the money he saved, he invested in Wilkerson, who at the time we were all saying was the 2nd best DE in the league only behind JJ Watt.  In addition, he invested the money in a position that requires more skillsets and has a higher average salary than a nose tackle, and in a player that was going to be on the field almost 30% more of the time.

I don't get how anyone can argue with the decision Mac made.  It may have not worked out as we have planned thus far, but from a logic standpoint it was the right decision.

[casman02]

Marshall done for the year

[Heismanberg]

quitter