The All American Automotive Thread

[Coach K]

Why would I care how shitty they were back then anymore? They got restructured and now make good stuff. A bunch of shitty cars I never owned mean nothing to me.

Did you feel the breeze as my comment flew over your head

[klaximilian]

Did you feel the breeze as my comment flew over your head

Lol.

I used to ride in Fords growing up. Hated them, of course I was always just the passenger. They never did anything for me. I never drove one until my friend urged me to get behind the wheel of his GT, and the rest is history.

I have no complaints about Ford, anymore.

[Pope]

My buddy's father is a salesman at a local Ford dealership.  I took a test drive in the Fusion Titanium. Nice car but I'm not sure I want to spend 30-32k on one.

[Tommy]

I don't know anything about cars, and never really got into them. Product of being raised in Manhattan I guess.

I remember wanting to buy a Mitsubishi eclipse when I got my license, and then being called a bundle of sticks by all my friends for wanting one. Pretty much gave up after that.

[Pope]

I don't know anything about cars, and never really got into them. Product of being raised in Manhattan I guess.

I remember wanting to buy a Mitsubishi eclipse when I got my license, and then being called a bundle of sticks by all my friends for wanting one. Pretty much gave up after that.

Your friends were right.

[AlioTheFool]

Our current car is a 2006 Dodge Caravan with 130k+ miles on it. It's really been great for us but we're starting to consider it might be time to look at something new.

[Fenwyr]

My Audi was incredibly dangerous to drive, as attempting to do so immediately put me to sleep due to it being such a monumentally dull car. Conversely my TVR (handbuilt in Britain with an American engine) was far, far more fun to drive than any of the German cars I owned.

Facts are facts.

My Dad drove Celicas in the 80's until the odometer stopped working.  Put 300K (or so) on them in shitty NE weather and never did anything but change the oil.

My wife's 2001 Accord has had nothing but standard maintenance since it was new and is still going strong.  Thing has been between Vegas and LA 100 times and it's still a fine drive at 80mph.

I had over 200K on my old 325i before someone smashed into it and killed it.  Still the best car I've ever owned.  20+ years old and it could do 90-100 comfortably on the highway, and take turns at speed even in Malibu Canyon.

Meanwhile I get the occasional less than 3 year old rental, always turns out to be American, and always seems to be hot garbage.

[Badger]

The worst rental car I ever got was a Toyota Corolla. We drove off the lot with it, got maybe a mile down the street, then Enterprise called us back and upgraded us to a Buick LaCrosse for free (they found out we were getting married and figured we should get something better).

Besides that, since 2012 I've rented an Avenger, an Equinox, a Liberty, and an Altima. All were fine but none could touch the LaCrosse. It was like driving a cloud.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

My buddy's father is a salesman at a local Ford dealership.  I took a test drive in the Fusion Titanium. Nice car but I'm not sure I want to spend 30-32k on one.

Why would you have to pay that much if your buddy's dad is a salesman?  I paid under 33k for mine and it's a hybrid and loaded.  I'd imagine if you know someone, you can swing an even better deal on the gas only one.

[Pope]

Why would you have to pay that much if your buddy's dad is a salesman?  I paid under 33k for mine and it's a hybrid and loaded.  I'd imagine if you know someone, you can swing an even better deal on the gas only one.

You have a point. I was basing that off sticker price. When I went in it was mainly for a test drive and to see what they had available. I never really got into negotiations on a final number.

Is there an incentive on the hybrid?

[Ignatius J Reilly]

You have a point. I was basing that off sticker price. When I went in it was mainly for a test drive and to see what they had available. I never really got into negotiations on a final number.

Is there an incentive on the hybrid?

Yes.  It's $1000 on the hybrid and $1500 on the non-hybrid.  You can get $500 more on the fuel only model if you finance with Ford.  In the end, I got mine for a bit under Factory Invoice plus the $1000 incentive.  Your buddy's dad should at least be able to get you factory invoice plus incentive.  I'm pretty sure all the Titaniums come with Moon Roof and Navigation.  With just those added on, you'd be looking at about $28k with the deal above.

[klaximilian]

You have a point. I was basing that off sticker price. When I went in it was mainly for a test drive and to see what they had available. I never really got into negotiations on a final number.

Is there an incentive on the hybrid?

Why would you have to pay that much if your buddy's dad is a salesman?  I paid under 33k for mine and it's a hybrid and loaded.  I'd imagine if you know someone, you can swing an even better deal on the gas only one.

Never pay what the sticker price is. For most cars you get away with invoice or less if you do your homework and are patient. Some dealerships won't bother to work with you, while others are more than willing.

In order from highest to lowest price:

Dealer Markup (If you buy a car at this price, you're a chump. AKA the MBGreen price)
MSRP (Slightly less of a chump, but a chump nonetheless)
Invoice (Perfectly acceptable. If you're $500 over invoice, it's kind of a win/win for the dealer/buyer. No one gets screwed)
Hold-Back (Reserve that the dealers don't let the consumer know exists, and probably 95% consumers don't. If you play your cards right, this is the best case scenario and completely realistic.)
Dealership Cost (Congratulations, you just raped the dealership. Please tell me, how did you do it?)

[Ignatius J Reilly]

Never pay what the sticker price is. For most cars you get away with invoice or less if you do your homework and are patient. Some dealerships won't bother to work with you, while others are more than willing.

In order from highest to lowest price:

Dealer Markup (If you buy a car at this price, you're a chump. AKA the MBGreen price)
MSRP (Slightly less of a chump, but a chump nonetheless)
Invoice (Perfectly acceptable. If you're $500 over invoice, it's kind of a win/win for the dealer/buyer. No one gets screwed)
Hold-Back (Reserve that the dealers don't let the consumer know exists, and probably 95% consumers don't. If you play your cards right, this is the best case scenario and completely realistic.)
Dealership Cost (Congratulations, you just raped the dealership. Please tell me, how did you do it?)

Good list.  Even invoice is misleading.  There's factory invoice, then there's dealer invoice.  I usually shoot for factory invoice before incentives.  That makes me happy.  I know the dealer always has wiggle room between factory and dealer invoice, and unless you're dealing with a non-holdback automaker like BMW or Audi, they'll profit from that too.  It can also be a benefit going to a bigger dealer.  Places like Galpin down here can offer better deals because they always know they're going to get volume discounts.  I don't think Galpin goes a single month without getting its volume discount, so the prices are pretty stable.  Otherwise, you have to look for a dealership that's getting close to qualifying at the end of the month.

EDIT: As an example for anyone else, MSRP on the car I just got was $37,040.  I paid $32,863.  Invoice was $34,163, so with the $1000 incentive, it was $33,163.  They knocked off an extra $300 because it included cooled seats, which I didn't really care about.  It was easier than ordering.  In the end, though, they got a bit of wiggle room, I'm sure they were looking at volume pricing, and the holdback is 3% on the car.  Good deal for both.

[Johnny English]

My Dad drove Celicas in the 80's until the odometer stopped working.  Put 300K (or so) on them in shitty NE weather and never did anything but change the oil.

My wife's 2001 Accord has had nothing but standard maintenance since it was new and is still going strong.  Thing has been between Vegas and LA 100 times and it's still a fine drive at 80mph.

I had over 200K on my old 325i before someone smashed into it and killed it.  Still the best car I've ever owned.  20+ years old and it could do 90-100 comfortably on the highway, and take turns at speed even in Malibu Canyon.

Meanwhile I get the occasional less than 3 year old rental, always turns out to be American, and always seems to be hot garbage.

So what you're saying is that cars you own and maintain are fine, but cars that are driven by different people literally every single day are less so? Funny, that.

Try it this way round. If American cars were so crappy and unreliable, they'd break down more often. If they broke down more often, they'd need more servicing and be less available for hire. Therefore, they would be less lucrative a hire vehicle. It stands to reason then that American cars are actually pretty reliable for the simple reason that they're used as hire cars. And taxis, come to think of it.

[klaximilian]

Good list.  Even invoice is misleading.  There's factory invoice, then there's dealer invoice.  I usually shoot for factory invoice before incentives.  That makes me happy.  I know the dealer always has wiggle room between factory and dealer invoice, and unless you're dealing with a non-holdback automaker like BMW or Audi, they'll profit from that too.

I don't believe I'd ever shopped for a car that didn't have a holdback. How do you know which manufacturers don't have it?