LOLffensive Skill Players

[Derek Smalls]

Year 1 he was a rookie. Looked mostly great, still had things to learn. Development normal.

Year 2 he got mono, played behind an historically bad line and still had times when he looked like he was going to be terrific.

Year 3 he has a line but no weapons, and is apparently still not being given license to call his own plays when he can read them.

I'm not really sure how he doesn't get a pass so far. I feel like we're lucky he has the talent and mindset he does, it's the only thing that's keeping him real right now.

I agree. They are excuses though. I think they are fair excuses but they are still excuses.

"Mostly great" is a bit much for his rookie season. I agree that his development was right on track though. I dont think Sam has ever been mostly great other than that one Packers game.

If he were better and not checking to screens to Chris Hogan against 5-man rushes on 3rd and long, maybe he would get more license pre-snap. I do wish he were able to change that play on 4th down though. Clearly he gets some leeway.

[Libero_2]

Not sure where you're heading with this

I don't want "excuses" for Sam. I want him to be given the opportunity to prove himself. I think we have a franchise QB. We just have him coupled with an awful coaching staff and not enough weapons.

Where I was going is potentially into Douglas' mind.

If I am Douglas and this team appears to be actually as atrocious as it might be, and I think I might be about to luck into the #1 overall pick, am I really about to make a serious move (for example, go get Allen Robinson for a conditional 4th that can escalate to a 3rd with a new contract signed before the new league year starts) which if I believe in Robinson (which obviously I do if I am making that move mid-season) I am taking myself out of the running for the #1 overall pick. This means that I definitely will not get my hands on Lawrence, the best QB prospect I am likely to be within striking distance of in my initial contract as Jets GM (and hopefully my entire career). That means I am hitching my wagon entirely to Sam Darnold, a guy that Gase might have actually ruined over the past two years.

Man that is a scary thought. Especially if Robinson actually wants to leave Chicago. If that's real, he is likely to hit the market in March, and then I can just go pay the man then without risking my draft capital/chances at Lawrence. Add to it, if Sam wins enough games to avoid the #1 pick, then I can just go get him Robinson in March to bolster the squad, and again I don't alter my draft capital to build up a roster which is quite clearly a disaster every where on the roster.

In my mind, it really comes down to 2 things, how much does Douglas believe in Sam despite his poor start to the season, and how cheaply are the Bears willing to part with Robinson?

For me as a Jets fan, I would rather pay the mid round premium for Robinson right now to try and save Sam, even if it turns out that Robinson both takes us out of the Lawrence race and fails to save Sam while he does it. But I can absolutely see why Douglas would not be willing to do it, depending on the level of belief he has in Sam's long term future right now.

[SixFeetDeep]

According to sources familiar with the situation, the Bears are looking at the recent Cooper Kupp extension with the Rams as their comparison, meaning they're in the $15 million-to-$16 million-per-year range," Graziano writes. "Robinson is thinking more along the lines of Odell Beckham Jr. or Tyreek Hill, who are in the $18 million-per-year range. Keenan Allen, age 28, just signed a third contract with the Chargers for four years and a reported $20 million per year, and don't think that's not on Robinson's mind here. Robinson (98 catches for 1,147 yards and seven touchdowns) and Allen (104 - 1,199 -6) had similar statistical lines a season ago, and Allen has also had injuries in his past."

NBC Chicago

[Derek Smalls]

That is a fair point. We have a chance at Lawrence. Might not want to eff that up. Most valuable #1 pick in years. Could probably get three 1s for it and more. Or we could take Lawrence and decide what to do with Sam.

[Derek Smalls]

NBC Chicago

Nevermind then. Hoard the cap space forever. Or trade it for picks.

[AlioTheFool]

Code: [Select]

                                                   
Cmp     Att Cmp%   Yds   TD  TD%  Int Int%  Y/A  Y/C
326     575 56.7  3739   26  4.5   28  4.9  6.5 11.5
331     533 62.1  4135   26  4.9   15  2.8  7.8 12.5
357     571 62.5  4413   33  5.8   15  2.6  7.7 12.4


Code: [Select]

                                           
Cmp   Att Cmp%  Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/A  Y/C
239   414 57.7 2865 17 4.1  15  3.6 6.9 12.0
273   441 61.9 3024 19 4.3  13  2.9 6.9 11.1
42     67 62.7  394  2 3.0   1  1.5 5.9  9.4

The second set of stats is Sam Darnold, so far. The first set is Peyton Manning after his first 3 years.

I'm sure I'll get a ton of excrement for having the gall to compare Manning and Darnold, but just imagine the Colts had given up on him 2 games into his third season.

Darnold needs better coaching & playcalling and some talent to actually catch the damn ball. Anything less is neglect of duty by the management of this team.

[Heismanberg]

but just imagine the Colts had given up on him 2 games into his third season.

They were never going to.  He kept progressing. 

[bojanglesman]

Code: [Select]

                                                   
Cmp     Att Cmp%   Yds   TD  TD%  Int Int%  Y/A  Y/C
326     575 56.7  3739   26  4.5   28  4.9  6.5 11.5
331     533 62.1  4135   26  4.9   15  2.8  7.8 12.5
357     571 62.5  4413   33  5.8   15  2.6  7.7 12.4


Code: [Select]

                                           
Cmp   Att Cmp%  Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/A  Y/C
239   414 57.7 2865 17 4.1  15  3.6 6.9 12.0
273   441 61.9 3024 19 4.3  13  2.9 6.9 11.1
42     67 62.7  394  2 3.0   1  1.5 5.9  9.4

The second set of stats is Sam Darnold, so far. The first set is Peyton Manning after his first 3 years.

I'm sure I'll get a ton of excrement for having the gall to compare Manning and Darnold, but just imagine the Colts had given up on him 2 games into his third season.

Darnold needs better coaching & playcalling and some talent to actually catch the damn ball. Anything less is neglect of duty by the management of this team.

I really don't want to bail on Darnold, even if he has a rough year.  He's the type of guy and talent that this team needs, but he's being hamstrung by lack of surrounding talent and coaching.  Yeah, he makes some mistakes, but this team doesn't give him the leeway to get away with it.  Mistakes are magnified on this team.  It seems one missed tackle is almost always a TD instead of just an extra 10 yards.

[AlioTheFool]

Let's just say they trade for Robinson, and still the season is garbage and Sam looks awful. They are still in position to draft Lawrence, and he comes in with an OL already in the process of being rebuilt with Allen Robinson, Jamison Crowder, Chris Herndon, and Ryan Griffin to throw to. Nevermind Mims, Smith, and whoever else might be drafted/acquired.

Let's just keep hoarding cap space and draft picks though

[AlioTheFool]

They were never going to.  He kept progressing. 

Okay, but how do we know Darnold wouldn't be progressing with even decent coaching, playcalling, and talent to catch the ball?

All I'm saying is give him someone to throw to, and call some decent plays (and don't hamstring the kid when he walks up under center).

I really don't want to bail on Darnold, even if he has a rough year.  He's the type of guy and talent that this team needs, but he's being hamstrung by lack of surrounding talent and coaching.  Yeah, he makes some mistakes, but this team doesn't give him the leeway to get away with it.  Mistakes are magnified on this team.  It seems one missed tackle is almost always a TD instead of just an extra 10 yards.

Agreed

[Heismanberg]

What we have to consider is this:

Joe Douglas did not draft Sam Darnold.  There was never a real plan in place to build around him, unfortunately.  Maccagnan moved up in the draft for a QB and did not have a plan after that.

Darnold either steps up this year and proves he belongs and plays us out of that #1 pick, or we are the worst team in the NFL with him at QB and it'd be time to move on because you can't pass on Trevor Lawrence.

With all that said, this team is in a much better place now than it was in 2018 when we took Sam.  Douglas appears to have a plan and he has cash and draft capital to use to help our QB (whoever that may be). 

It's not like we'd take Lawrence and that's the only pick we have.  We still have 3 other first rounds in 2021 and 2022 and loads of cap space.

[Derek Smalls]

Code: [Select]

                                                   
Cmp     Att Cmp%   Yds   TD  TD%  Int Int%  Y/A  Y/C
326     575 56.7  3739   26  4.5   28  4.9  6.5 11.5
331     533 62.1  4135   26  4.9   15  2.8  7.8 12.5
357     571 62.5  4413   33  5.8   15  2.6  7.7 12.4


Code: [Select]

                                           
Cmp   Att Cmp%  Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/A  Y/C
239   414 57.7 2865 17 4.1  15  3.6 6.9 12.0
273   441 61.9 3024 19 4.3  13  2.9 6.9 11.1
42     67 62.7  394  2 3.0   1  1.5 5.9  9.4

The second set of stats is Sam Darnold, so far. The first set is Peyton Manning after his first 3 years.

I'm sure I'll get a ton of excrement for having the gall to compare Manning and Darnold, but just imagine the Colts had given up on him 2 games into his third season.

Darnold needs better coaching & playcalling and some talent to actually catch the damn ball. Anything less is neglect of duty by the management of this team.

I don't understand your point. Your point is that Peyton Manning was significantly better than Sam Darnold, and that's why we should stick with Sam? And Manning played in an era where passing numbers weren't as padded as they often are today, so his numbers are even more impressive compared to Sam's.

I agree Darnold needs more talent around him. We don't even really have the bare minimum of talent around him. That's why I'm willing to accept mediocre QB play from him, even in Year 3. His play against the Bills did not meet that extremely low bar. Against the 49ers, he played a lot better, even if the numbers didn't really reflect that.

[SixFeetDeep]

They were never going to.  He kept progressing. 

Darnold progressed from year 1 to year 2.

Maybe he didn’t take as big of a leap as we would have hoped, but there’s clear improvements in his comp %, INT% and TD%. If we want to dive deeper, he was also dealing with a new playbook, league worst OL, and Adam Gase as his mentor. He didn’t regress in year 2, which I think is actually a victory.

[Heismanberg]

He didn’t regress in year 2, which I think is actually a victory.

He didn't regress, but he also didn't progress much.   

[SixFeetDeep]

I don't understand your point. Your point is that Peyton Manning was significantly better than Sam Darnold, and that's why we should stick with Sam? And Manning played in an era where passing numbers weren't as padded as they often are today, so his numbers are even more impressive compared to Sam's.

I agree Darnold needs more talent around him. We don't even really have the bare minimum of talent around him. That's why I'm willing to accept mediocre QB play from him, even in Year 3. His play against the Bills did not meet that extremely low bar. Against the 49ers, he played a lot better, even if the numbers didn't really reflect that.

Interesting you say that Darnold’s stats are padded when it says right there Peyton was throwing 100x more attempts per year than Sam