Coronavirus SZN Forever

[dcm1602]

I wouldn't remove their right to healthcare, but I'd make them lowest priority on triage. If there are post op patients needing the ICU bed then sorry Mr Plague Rat, you're just going to have to lie here on this ward and hope that your lungs hold up long enough for one to come free. You were given every opportunity to not be here and you chose not to take it. Well done on exercising your freedom that you were so keen on.

This is an argument that I've brought up before.

While I support this, the vast majority of people using Healthcare resources are irresponsible freaking assholes.

I guarantee in my hospital right now over 75% of the patients are there because of either smoking, horribly controlled diabetes, not taking their prescribed medications, never seeing a doctor, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, or acute (or acute on chronic) heart failure.

Are people who refuse to get vaccinated extremely irresponsible assholes? Absolutely, but statistically speaking the odds of you dying from covid even as an unvaccinated person are less likely than dying from alcohol abuse smoking etc etc (assuming you partake in these activities)

And yes this doesn't acknowledge that antivaxxers are a threat to the entirety of society which is a completely valid point.

We could have ridiculously spectacular healthcare and a fraction of the cost if it wasn't for freaking degenerates using all of the resources, And it's well studied/researchered the negative impact of healthcare super users

(ironically the distribution of healthcare resources used isn't very different from the wealth distribution in this country. The top 10% using somewhere between 50-70%)

[Johnny English]

This is an argument that I've brought up before.

While I support this, the vast majority of people using Healthcare resources are irresponsible freaking assholes.

I guarantee in my hospital right now over 75% of the patients are there because of either smoking, horribly controlled diabetes, not taking their prescribed medications, never seeing a doctor, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, or acute (or acute on chronic) heart failure.

Are people who refuse to get vaccinated extremely irresponsible assholes? Absolutely, but statistically speaking the odds of you dying from covid even as an unvaccinated person are less likely than dying from alcohol abuse smoking etc etc (assuming you partake in these activities)

And yes this doesn't acknowledge that antivaxxers are a threat to the entirety of society which is a completely valid point.

We could have ridiculously spectacular healthcare and a fraction of the cost if it wasn't for freaking degenerates using all of the resources, And it's well studied/researchered the negative impact of healthcare super users

(ironically the distribution of healthcare resources used isn't very different from the wealth distribution in this country. The top 10% using somewhere between 50-70%)

Yes, but the healthcare system is right sized to account for the obese, the smokers, the people who are bad at hang gliding, and so on. They also haven't gone anywhere, so now the sudden rush of covid cases is what causes the strain on the system, not the people who are already planned for.

[CatoTheElder]

I'm not going to say much more than this because I don't want to continuously see people advocating for it, but the precedent for removing access to health care is an awful one, even if the targeted population is one who I feel is doing serious harm.

Finning them? Not letting them sit or be inside at bars/restaurants/movie theaters/gyms? Fine. Letting them die painfully? not so much.

[Johnny English]

I'm not going to say much more than this because I don't want to continuously see people advocating for it, but the precedent for removing access to health care is an awful one, even if the targeted population is one who I feel is doing serious harm.

Finning them? Not letting them sit or be inside at bars/restaurants/movie theaters/gyms? Fine. Letting them die painfully? not so much.

I agree with you, right up to the point at which the alleviation of their suffering is at the price of someone else who is vaccinated having to suffer instead, be it from covid or anything else. Cancelling life saving operations and treatments because ICUs and the staff needed to run them are all being consumed by people who felt they didn't need to get vaccinated, is unacceptable.

[MBGreen]

I'm not going to say much more than this because I don't want to continuously see people advocating for it, but the precedent for removing access to health care is an awful one, even if the targeted population is one who I feel is doing serious harm.

Finning them? Not letting them sit or be inside at bars/restaurants/movie theaters/gyms? Fine. Letting them die painfully? not so much.

This line of thinking is counterproductive and incorrect.

The cognitive dissonance among antivaxxers shouldn't be met with a Healthcare safety net after they get infected.

[Badger]

This line of thinking is counterproductive and incorrect.

Bad hill to die on. Healthcare should be an inalienable right. It's one thing if your resources are maxed out and you have to start excluding people because you can't save everyone, it's another to withhold care punitively.

[CatoTheElder]

This line of thinking is counterproductive and incorrect.

The cognitive dissonance among antivaxxers shouldn't be met with a Healthcare safety net after they get infected.

So your solution is to allow them to remain in the public at large as an infection vector? It's not like they stop existing once they are infected or sick.

[CatoTheElder]

Bad hill to die on. Healthcare should be an inalienable right. It's one thing if your resources are maxed out and you have to start excluding people because you can't save everyone, it's another to withhold care punitively.

Yes. This.

[MBGreen]

So your solution is to allow them to remain in the public at large as an infection vector? It's not like they stop existing once they are infected or sick.

No..they can return to their hovels.  Whether they live or die is up to fate.

But hospital beds and resources should be reserved for people that are following health orders and getting vaccinated.

[dcm1602]

Bad hill to die on. Healthcare should be an inalienable right. It's one thing if your resources are maxed out and you have to start excluding people because you can't save everyone, it's another to withhold care punitively.

I'm not here for a debate on Medicare for all, as I'm cool with universal health care.

The question is what limits should there be on healthcare? Healthcare is an inalienable right, sure I'm okay with that. But anything goes 100% and you shouldn't pay anything at all ever? Absolutely not.

I'm not big on the "if you don't experience it first hand you don't know" bullshit. But the amount of waste neglect and pure bullshit in Healthcare is absolutely freaking astronomicsl.

There needs to be limits on futile care, and there needs to be some kind of incentive/punishment on bad behavior. Who and how the freak that should be determined, good freaking luck. But unlimited healthcare for everyone no matter what no matter the cost just means worse care for everyone else

Especially when most healthcare organizations are not for profit, so wasted resources on excrement would just be reinvested to everyone else.

(im also cool with eliminating for profit healthcare organizations)

[Badger]

No..they can return to their hovels.  Whether they live or die is up to fate.

We already do this in the US for the uninsured.

[MBGreen]

We already do this in the US for the uninsured.

I'm more sympathetic to this.

I'm not towards people who are openly in revolt against vaccines then proceed to take away hospital beds from people who needed them for other reasons.

[delavan]

I'm more sympathetic to this.

I'm not towards people who are openly in revolt against vaccines

then proceed to take away hospital beds from people who needed them for other reasons.

Yup, I'm losing patience with those patients.........their choice:



- OR -

[delavan]

* smirk *

https://www.gatesfoundation.org/about/committed-grants/2020/05/inv006377

https://www.gatesfoundation.org/about/committed-grants/2017/10/opp1180267

[Johnny English]

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1488084513829924867