Author Topic: Coronavirus SZN Forever  (Read 357828 times)

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MBGreen

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4845 on: December 29, 2021, 11:02:19 AM »
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AlioTheFool

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4846 on: December 29, 2021, 01:41:38 PM »
OK, but lockdowns aren't fixing anything either.

There's likely a middle ground, but lockdowns matter. They did when NYC had to bring in refrigerator trucks to pile bodies in, and they would likely stem some of the infections and deaths right now.

That's ignoring the coming wave as soon as schools return to in-house classes next week. But for the sake of their mental health, kids need to be in a classroom where they can actively dodge coronavirus and bullets rather than their next Zoom math class.

I read the other day how NYC is in a state of "soft lockdown." While the government stands firm on their no-lockdowns rulership, businesses are actively closing to protect their own workers.
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dcm1602

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4847 on: December 29, 2021, 02:11:42 PM »
There's likely a middle ground, but lockdowns matter. They did when NYC had to bring in refrigerator trucks to pile bodies in, and they would likely stem some of the infections and deaths right now.

That's ignoring the coming wave as soon as schools return to in-house classes next week. But for the sake of their mental health, kids need to be in a classroom where they can actively dodge coronavirus and bullets rather than their next Zoom math class.

I read the other day how NYC is in a state of "soft lockdown." While the government stands firm on their no-lockdowns rulership, businesses are actively closing to protect their own workers.

Lockdowns would have served a very different purpose then.

Hospitals were insanely over capacity and nobody knew how to fight the disease and there were logistics nightmares (supplies and personnel being spread out while the disease was concentrated) So lock downs if nothing else would have reduced capacity and spread excrement out so that resources could be allocated and strategies developed.

What purpose would a lockdown serve right now? I don't see a purpose or an end game.

If you want to make an argument against mass gatherings (concerts sports etc) I think you can at least make an argument there.

Right now the biggest freaking problem is people that are not vaccinated, period. Therefore I think the most productive intervention would be something that disincentivizes this behavior.

My personal favorite solution is to make anyone who is not vaccinated a self pay for all medical care, and requiring a co-signer for any extensive treatment (so death can't get these scumbags off the hook)

I think it would be a harder sell but making anyone who is not vaccinated an automatic DNR/DNI is something that would fly.

Your body, your choice, your wallet.

AlioTheFool

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4848 on: December 29, 2021, 06:29:48 PM »
Lockdowns would have served a very different purpose then.

Hospitals were insanely over capacity and nobody knew how to fight the disease and there were logistics nightmares (supplies and personnel being spread out while the disease was concentrated) So lock downs if nothing else would have reduced capacity and spread excrement out so that resources could be allocated and strategies developed.

What purpose would a lockdown serve right now? I don't see a purpose or an end game.

If you want to make an argument against mass gatherings (concerts sports etc) I think you can at least make an argument there.

Right now the biggest freaking problem is people that are not vaccinated, period. Therefore I think the most productive intervention would be something that disincentivizes this behavior.

My personal favorite solution is to make anyone who is not vaccinated a self pay for all medical care, and requiring a co-signer for any extensive treatment (so death can't get these scumbags off the hook)

I think it would be a harder sell but making anyone who is not vaccinated an automatic DNR/DNI is something that would fly.

Your body, your choice, your wallet.

I largely agree, and I said as much to JE previously. The problem is, we're not completely locking the unvaccinated out of society. As long as they're allowed to walk around freely, the virus has opportunities to spread, and therefore mutate.

The idea that locking down until the entire planet is vaccinated will never fly because everyone is so concerned with their own personal freedoms. And corporations. But we could eradicate this thing. We won't because of the above. But we could.
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AlioTheFool

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4849 on: December 29, 2021, 06:32:07 PM »
People are awfully cavalier with other people's lives. My wife got her booster on Black Friday. She got infected a month later. Really bad. And we've behaved excessively cautiously. It really pisses me off when people act like it's a tragedy that they can't hit the bar every night just to protect the health of people they don't know.
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Johnny English

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4850 on: December 29, 2021, 07:42:41 PM »
People are awfully cavalier with other people's lives. My wife got her booster on Black Friday. She got infected a month later. Really bad. And we've behaved excessively cautiously. It really pisses me off when people act like it's a tragedy that they can't hit the bar every night just to protect the health of people they don't know.


This is not aimed at you Alio, but I don't think you can be supportive of "muh freedoms and muh rights" and complain about people being cavalier with other's lives. And that's not just a US thing, you have a particularly high level of cunts but Canada and the UK have a decent helping as well.

Let's stop being tolerant of people who choose not to get vaccinated. Let's stop allowing freedoms and rights to be used as an excuse for failing to fulfil basic civil responsibility. If you don't want to get vaccinated then you need to be required to go all the rest of the way also - go live in the bush, surrender any and all benefits of society, and freaking live and die on your own. But if you want to have anything to do with society, this is the basic entry price.

People who don't get vaccinated are scum, but people who are willing to allow them to not be vaccinated are almost as bad. Call those fuckers out. I'm done tolerating this excrement.
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bojanglesman

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4851 on: December 29, 2021, 07:50:56 PM »
This is not aimed at you Alio, but I don't think you can be supportive of "muh freedoms and muh rights" and complain about people being cavalier with other's lives. And that's not just a US thing, you have a particularly high level of cunts but Canada and the UK have a decent helping as well.

Let's stop being tolerant of people who choose not to get vaccinated. Let's stop allowing freedoms and rights to be used as an excuse for failing to fulfil basic civil responsibility. If you don't want to get vaccinated then you need to be required to go all the rest of the way also - go live in the bush, surrender any and all benefits of society, and freaking live and die on your own. But if you want to have anything to do with society, this is the basic entry price.

People who don't get vaccinated are scum, but people who are willing to allow them to not be vaccinated are almost as bad. Call those fuckers out. I'm done tolerating this excrement.

Johnny English

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4852 on: December 29, 2021, 08:35:36 PM »


Just for the record, I freaking hate tea. It's awful muck.
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Derek Smalls

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4853 on: December 29, 2021, 09:17:21 PM »
The problem with these ideas is you can't always enforce some of this stuff, or nobody is willing to.

If someone doesn't want to wear a mask where they are supposed to, most security guards I've seen will tell people to put it on, but they won't go beyond that, and if people ignore them, they usually don't do anything about it.

Half the cops I see barely wear masks, so they damn sure aren't going to enforce it.

I go to concerts and sporting events, many of which require some vaccine proof. The people checking them are barely getting paid for that and aren't exactly doing deep dives to see which cards are fake, especially since they'll usually accept pictures of them.

dcm1602

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4854 on: December 29, 2021, 09:19:11 PM »
I largely agree, and I said as much to JE previously. The problem is, we're not completely locking the unvaccinated out of society. As long as they're allowed to walk around freely, the virus has opportunities to spread, and therefore mutate.

The idea that locking down until the entire planet is vaccinated will never fly because everyone is so concerned with their own personal freedoms. And corporations. But we could eradicate this thing. We won't because of the above. But we could.

A lockdown cannot eradicate it.

I mean theoretically yes, but it's legit impossible.

If one city had to be locked down, sure you can make the argument.

But how the freak do you lock down the entire planet for say 2 or 3 months?

Are people going to literally stop making all food and goods globally for that period of time? Is the expectation that 4-5 billion freaking people will all comply for several months?

I attempt to keep an open mind, but I don't see the purpose or the end goal of this. You cannot eliminate a disease that's spread globally with a lockdown (unless it's a bizarre disease that would become eradicated in hours, which this clearly is not)

Now the only legit argument I can see someone making for a lockdown. Is hey Covid-19 is spreading hardcore because of Thanksgiving Christmas and new years and hosptials/testing/treatment capabilities etc are all over capicity, and we're needing to excrement down essential services because everyone's freaking sick. We need to temporarily lock down for a few days/weeks just to catch our breath and get over this holiday hump. It's a short term focused effort with a clear goal of mitigating the holidays

And the other difference is the feasibility. A global lockdown to eradicate covid you'd need 100% compliance essentially all of the time.

A temporary lockdown (ie to get over the holidays) will be successful whether you get 40% compliance or 90%. As the goal is simply slow excrement down and flatten the curve from the holidays (and the emerging omnicron ofc)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 09:26:07 PM by dcm1602 »

Badger

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4855 on: December 29, 2021, 09:42:20 PM »
A lockdown cannot eradicate it.

I mean theoretically yes, but it's legit impossible.

If one city had to be locked down, sure you can make the argument.

But how the freak do you lock down the entire planet for say 2 or 3 months?

Are people going to literally stop making all food and goods globally for that period of time? Is the expectation that 4-5 billion freaking people will all comply for several months?

I attempt to keep an open mind, but I don't see the purpose or the end goal of this. You cannot eliminate a disease that's spread globally with a lockdown (unless it's a bizarre disease that would become eradicated in hours, which this clearly is not)

Now the only legit argument I can see someone making for a lockdown. Is hey Covid-19 is spreading hardcore because of Thanksgiving Christmas and new years and hosptials/testing/treatment capabilities etc are all over capicity, and we're needing to excrement down essential services because everyone's freaking sick. We need to temporarily lock down for a few days/weeks just to catch our breath and get over this holiday hump. It's a short term focused effort with a clear goal of mitigating the holidays

And the other difference is the feasibility. A global lockdown to eradicate covid you'd need 100% compliance essentially all of the time.

A temporary lockdown (ie to get over the holidays) will be successful whether you get 40% compliance or 90%. As the goal is simply slow excrement down and flatten the curve from the holidays (and the emerging omnicron ofc)
At this point the only way forward is hoping it mutates into something harmless and stays that way, and vaccinating long enough to weather the storm, because enough people with enough power have decided anything more than that is too inconvenient.

Your correct point that we won't lockdown again overrides whether or not further lockdowns would work anyway, so it's not worth discussing the latter.

Badger

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4856 on: December 29, 2021, 11:31:52 PM »
https://www.propublica.org/article/they-were-the-pandemics-perfect-victims

Quote
Then COVID-19 struck. Nearly 18,000 more dialysis patients died in 2020 than would have been expected based on previous years. That staggering toll represents an increase of nearly 20% from 2019, when more than 96,000 patients on dialysis died, according to federal data released this month.

The loss led to an unprecedented outcome: The nation’s dialysis population shrank, the first decline since the U.S. began keeping detailed numbers nearly a half century ago.

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4857 on: December 30, 2021, 08:51:04 AM »
The US has been polio-free since 1979, why?  A vaccine. 

So why the disconnect when history simply needs to repeat itself?



MBGreen

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4858 on: December 30, 2021, 09:00:17 AM »
The US has been polio-free since 1979, why?  A vaccine. 

So why the disconnect when history simply needs to repeat itself?




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bojanglesman

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4859 on: December 30, 2021, 10:40:17 AM »
Is there anyone left on this board that is arguing against vaccination?

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