Author Topic: Coronavirus SZN Forever  (Read 358902 times)

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reuben

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4395 on: September 16, 2021, 03:29:07 PM »
Is anyone talking about limiting care to the unvaccinated (at least anyone in a position to actually do it)? The problem exists precisely because we can't, won't and shouldn't limit care, because much as I despise the massively overused "slippery slope" argument it actually applies here - we don't refuse to treat smokers for cancer, or fat people for high blood pressure (settle down there dcm), or people who have thrown themselves off a cliff entrusting their life to a sheet of expensive polythene and broken their legs, and they are all there entirely as a result of their own actions.

I think there's a substantial difference between denying care as some sort of a punitive measure and rationing care due to a shortage of resources.  Active smokers aren't put on lung transplant lists; it's not a punishment for smoking, there just aren't enough donated lungs to go around.  I see no reason why a smoker should get a lung instead of someone who took care of theirs, and I see no reason why an anti-vaxxer should get a respirator instead of someone who did everything in their power to avoid the disease.

If lungs and respirators start growing on trees, well then great, everyone gets what they need.  But while there's a shortage, smokers and anti-vaxxers can and should be at the back of the line.

CatoTheElder

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4396 on: September 16, 2021, 04:06:21 PM »
Is anyone talking about limiting care to the unvaccinated (at least anyone in a position to actually do it)? The problem exists precisely because we can't, won't and shouldn't limit care, because much as I despise the massively overused "slippery slope" argument it actually applies here - we don't refuse to treat smokers for cancer, or fat people for high blood pressure (settle down there dcm), or people who have thrown themselves off a cliff entrusting their life to a sheet of expensive polythene and broken their legs, and they are all there entirely as a result of their own actions.

What is being talked about (and implemented in various ways and places) is mandating vaccines for access to locations and settings where being unvaccinated presents a greater risk to others. Like hospitals, and bars, and movie theatres. If someone wants to refuse to get vaccinated and go live off the land in the northern wilderness and never interact with humans again, more power to them. I have no problem with that. As soon as they want to actually engage with society they are a problem.

Did you mean to use a different word here?
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Badger

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4397 on: September 16, 2021, 04:10:57 PM »
Did you mean to use a different word here?
No, a bunch of us are meeting up at Lenox Hill Hospital on tailgate weekend, the jello there is great.

CatoTheElder

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4398 on: September 16, 2021, 04:19:51 PM »
No, a bunch of us are meeting up at Lenox Hill Hospital on tailgate weekend, the jello there is great.

Do they have watermelon flavored?
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Johnny English

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4399 on: September 16, 2021, 04:24:00 PM »
Did you mean to use a different word here?

No, I was specifically thinking about the mandate that anyone working in a hospital needs to be vaccinated although I didn't express it very well. I don't know if you have those mandates but we do.
A cross-dressing limey poofter

Badger

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4400 on: September 16, 2021, 04:26:22 PM »
No, I was specifically thinking about the mandate that anyone working in a hospital needs to be vaccinated although I didn't express it very well. I don't know if you have those mandates but we do.
As all of our covid response has been, it's unevenly and inconsistently applied.

dcm1602

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4401 on: September 16, 2021, 05:03:01 PM »
I think there's a substantial difference between denying care as some sort of a punitive measure and rationing care due to a shortage of resources.  Active smokers aren't put on lung transplant lists; it's not a punishment for smoking, there just aren't enough donated lungs to go around.  I see no reason why a smoker should get a lung instead of someone who took care of theirs, and I see no reason why an anti-vaxxer should get a respirator instead of someone who did everything in their power to avoid the disease.

If lungs and respirators start growing on trees, well then great, everyone gets what they need.  But while there's a shortage, smokers and anti-vaxxers can and should be at the back of the line.

The reason active smokers arent put on lung transplant lists is because institutions that do transplants (of any kind) are super cunty about survival rates. If someone is actively smoking, the odds of them living 5 years after a lung transplant aint good. And if they die it reflects poorly on that program and their ability to get accredited.

Hospitals are definitely starting to ration care again. I believe the article i posted this morning talked about the state enacting guidelines to allow it.

While I 100% think that every antivaxxer is a massive fuckin queynte who should be kicked in the taint, its not a good way to ration care.  The reality is a LOT, hell id go so far as to say the overwhelming majority of care is futile and extremely wasteful. I imagine most people arent familiar with ECMO, but ECMO across the country is at the highest utilization rates EVER by a massive margin(ECMO is basically the most intense form of life support out there) . The survival rates for these patients on ECMO has to be in the single digits, they are phenomenally resource + staff intensive. The costs to the hospital (not what the patient/insurance but the actual hospital cost) is around 200,000-350,000 per patient. This is extremely extremely wasteful (not from just a money standpoint) but from the standpoint that you could have all these resources treating dozen potentially hundreds of other patients with far greater survival rates.

Yet here we are with probably every single ECMO circuit around the country running almost non stop. Because here in America we don't know when to let people die.

SixFeetDeep

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4402 on: September 17, 2021, 06:59:58 AM »
My dad always says he's undefeated at tailgating

Maybe it's not I who doesn't know what he's talking about

SixFeetDeep

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4403 on: September 17, 2021, 07:11:35 AM »
If you decline to get the vaxx because you believe covid isn’t dangerous or your immune system is built different, you should also decline hospital care if you get covid.
My dad always says he's undefeated at tailgating

Maybe it's not I who doesn't know what he's talking about

MBGreen

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4404 on: September 17, 2021, 07:16:09 AM »
If you decline to get the vaxx because you believe covid isn’t dangerous or your immune system is built different, you should also decline hospital care if you get covid.

this
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bojanglesman

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4405 on: September 17, 2021, 07:17:30 AM »
If you decline the vaccine, you can and should be denied massive, glorious carbs at Carmines.

CatoTheElder

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4406 on: September 17, 2021, 07:36:29 AM »
If you decline the vaccine, you can and should be denied massive, glorious carbs at Carmines.


This.
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Badger

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4407 on: September 17, 2021, 08:10:08 AM »
If you decline the vaccine, you can and should be denied massive, glorious carbs at Carmines.
Antivax, antisnacks

Badger

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4408 on: September 17, 2021, 08:10:40 AM »

dcm1602

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #4409 on: September 17, 2021, 09:05:05 AM »
I think the solution to the unvaxxed clogging up hospitals is to let veterinarians take care of them.

I heard ivermectin works much better if you take it IV in massive quantities

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