Coronavirus SZN Forever

[mj2sexay]

No one is ignoring them, they are just rightfully pointing out the much bigger issue.

There is literal partisan blame being cast here from one side to another.

It’s annoying how the vaccine is always politicized. I don’t think that has anything to do with why Hopkins, Cole Beasley, or Kirk Cousins don’t want to get the vaccine. They probably all have their individual “reasons”

I don't disagree but everything is now politicized.

By the same token, as someone who's vaccinated, I could care less what other people decide to do, but see the slippery slope in a government mandate. I'm vaccinated. The chances of me getting seriously ill to the point of hospitalization are mitigated (supposedly). That was the whole point. My individual choice was what it was.

If people don't want the jab, let them live life on their terms and at their own risk. We've all been told by virtue of our respective shots that we're protected. The only gray area I see is protecting those (like the drummer from Offspring) who because of pre-existing health conditions can't protect themselves.

[Badger]

Speaking of partisan blame

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1422940638002225156?s=19

[bojanglesman]

I don't disagree but everything is now politicized.

By the same token, as someone who's vaccinated, I could care less what other people decide to do, but see the slippery slope in a government mandate. I'm vaccinated. The chances of me getting seriously ill to the point of hospitalization are mitigated (supposedly). That was the whole point. My individual choice was what it was.

If people don't want the jab, let them live life on their terms and at their own risk. We've all been told by virtue of our respective shots that we're protected. The only gray area I see is protecting those (like the drummer from Offspring) who because of pre-existing health conditions can't protect themselves.

You are trying to make a complex issue simple.  There are way more issues with people choosing not to get vaccinated than just "freak them I'll be fine". What about hospitals getting affected by this and all the burnout of nurses and doctors having to deal with this excrement?  Further mutations, long-term effects of getting covid even if you are vaccinated and survive....

[mj2sexay]

You are trying to make a complex issue simple.  There are way more issues with people choosing not to get vaccinated than just "freak them I'll be fine". What about hospitals getting affected by this and all the burnout of nurses and doctors having to deal with this excrement?  Further mutations, long-term effects of getting covid even if you are vaccinated and survive....

Further mutations are going to happen regardless.

Hospitals, doctors and nurses are there to take care of the sick.

People are allowed agency over their own bodies, especially when we've been told that if we're vaccinated we're safe from any sort of dire consequence when it comes to catching the virus.

It's actually very simple. Again, its neither your place, nor mine, nor anyone else's to mandate that people get vaccinated. Are you vaccinated? Yes? Then theoretically you have nothing to worry about.

[Johnny English]

Further mutations are going to happen regardless.

Hospitals, doctors and nurses are there to take care of the sick.

People are allowed agency over their own bodies, especially when we've been told that if we're vaccinated we're safe from any sort of dire consequence when it comes to catching the virus.

It's actually very simple. Again, its neither your place, nor mine, nor anyone else's to mandate that people get vaccinated. Are you vaccinated? Yes? Then theoretically you have nothing to worry about.

It's impressive that we've come this far into the pandemic and people are still so wilfully ignorant about things like vaccines and masks.

Yes, they provide us with individual protection, but they're only truly effective if everyone does their part. Otherwise the virus continues to migrate amongst the ranks of the unvaccinated, continues to be provided with new opportunities to mutate, and thus increases the risk of a vaccine-resistant strain coming into being.

So in very real terms, those deliberately choosing to not be vaccinated for anything other than medical reasons are creating a greater risk for you, me, and everyone else who is doing their bit. People are allowed agency over their own bodies. We are equally allowed to shun, ridicule and exclude them for being delusional self-centred ignorant shitheads.

[bojanglesman]

Further mutations are going to happen regardless.

Hospitals, doctors and nurses are there to take care of the sick.

People are allowed agency over their own bodies, especially when we've been told that if we're vaccinated we're safe from any sort of dire consequence when it comes to catching the virus.

It's actually very simple. Again, its neither your place, nor mine, nor anyone else's to mandate that people get vaccinated. Are you vaccinated? Yes? Then theoretically you have nothing to worry about.

The more virus out there replicating because dickholes don't get vaccinated, the larger the number of mutations.  It's a numbers game. 

Well, freak the hospital workers I guess, and freak me for giving a excrement about someone's wellbeing.

No one is forcing anyone to get vaccinated, and yes people have dominion over their bodies.  No one said we should force vaccinations by holding people down against their will.and stabbing them with a needle.  But it's damn time to make it rougher on these people for freaking everything up for everyone else.

[MBGreen]

So in very real terms, those deliberately choosing to not be vaccinated for anything other than medical reasons are creating a greater risk for you, me, and everyone else who is doing their bit. People are allowed agency over their own bodies. We are equally allowed to shun, ridicule and exclude them for being delusional self-centred ignorant shitheads.

1000x this

[mj2sexay]

It's impressive that we've come this far into the pandemic and people are still so wilfully ignorant about things like vaccines and masks.

This is hilarious, but not for the reason you'd think considering one of the top infectious disease doctors in the country who's also a top advisor to the Biden admin (Dr. Michael Osterholm) literally went on CNN to unequivocally state that unless everyone is wearing N-95's the whole cloth mask exercise is pointless.

Yes, they provide us with individual protection, but they're only truly effective if everyone does their part. Otherwise the virus continues to migrate amongst the ranks of the unvaccinated, continues to be provided with new opportunities to mutate, and thus increases the risk of a vaccine-resistant strain coming into being.

A virus is going to mutate against a vaccine. Why do you think the flu has never been eradicated. To say it's the unvaccinated that is fostering and accelerating mutations is blatantly anti-science and nonsensical fearmongering.

We are equally allowed to shun, ridicule and exclude them for being delusional self-centred ignorant shitheads.

Not via government compulsion and mandate you're not.

No one is forcing anyone to get vaccinated, and yes people have dominion over their bodies.  No one said we should force vaccinations by holding people down against their will.and stabbing them with a needle.  But it's damn time to make it rougher on these people for freaking everything up for everyone else.

"I don't think we should mandate vaccines, but via government compulsion we should make the lives of the unvaccinated as difficult as possible!"

On top of being completely incongruent, its also an absurdly authoritarian position to take.

[Johnny English]

A virus is going to mutate against a vaccine. Why do you think the flu has never been eradicated. To say it's the unvaccinated that is fostering and accelerating mutations is blatantly anti-science and nonsensical fearmongering.

No. You are completely failing to understand how this works.

A virus is not an intelligent being that encounters a vaccine and tries to figure out a way to get round it. Mutations are accidental occurrences; the more carriers it travels to, the more chances of a mutation occurring. And occasionally that mutation will just happen to eradicate the thing that the vaccine has created antibodies to attack, thus enabling the virus to suddenly pass to a vaccinated individual, from whom it goes to two more, then four, then eight, and so on.

The more unvaccinated people there are, the greater the chance of a mutation occurring that is immune to the antibodies created by vaccines. This isn't complicated, or a matter of debate or uncertainty.

[mj2sexay]

No. You are completely failing to understand how this works.

A virus is not an intelligent being that encounters a vaccine and tries to figure out a way to get round it. Mutations are accidental occurrences; the more carriers it travels to, the more chances of a mutation occurring. And occasionally that mutation will just happen to eradicate the thing that the vaccine has created antibodies to attack, thus enabling the virus to suddenly pass to a vaccinated individual, from whom it goes to two more, then four, then eight, and so on.

The more unvaccinated people there are, the greater the chance of a mutation occurring that is immune to the antibodies created by vaccines. This isn't complicated, or a matter of debate or uncertainty.

Are you seriously submitting that vaccine resistant strains of all sorts of different viruses don't exist?

[Badger]

 

[Johnny English]

Are you seriously submitting that vaccine resistant strains of all sorts of different viruses don't exist?

Of course I'm not. I'm talking about how vaccine resistant strains come into being. They're the result of a numbers game, numbers that are increased by people refusing to get a vaccine.

Here, do yourself a favour and educate yourself a bit:

https://www.breakthroughs.com/advancing-medical-research/how-do-viruses-mutate-and-what-it-means-vaccine

[Johnny English]

And here you go, hot off the press:

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/08/13/doomsday-covid-variant-worse-delta-lambda-may-coming-scientists-say-1615874.html

Even more important, he adds, scientists underestimated the sheer scale the pandemic would eventually achieve—a critical factor, because the more people a virus infects, the more opportunities it has to develop significant mutations. "Having billions of people infected presents a breeding ground for variants unlike anything we've ever seen with these sorts of viruses," he says.

[mj2sexay]

And here you go, hot off the press:

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/08/13/doomsday-covid-variant-worse-delta-lambda-may-coming-scientists-say-1615874.html

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/

Again, not making the claim vaccines don't work, but the idea that mutations can't occur in the face of a vaccinated populace, or that the unvaccinated are to blame is IMHO faulty.

Anyway, on a practical level and steering the conversation back to the topic at hand; the CDC came out today and said that 28.4 percent of the black community is currently vaccinated.

On top of therefore creating legislation re: vaccine or proof of vaccination mandates that IMHO leads to a slippery slope, a stat like that can absolutely make the case that any legislation should fail because whether intentional or not, there's a race based effect.

But hey, according to that article you posted, they're all just getting misled by fox news.

[bojanglesman]

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/

Again, not making the claim vaccines don't work, but the idea that mutations can't occur in the face of a vaccinated populace, or that the unvaccinated are to blame is IMHO faulty.

Anyway, on a practical level and steering the conversation back to the topic at hand; the CDC came out today and said that 28.4 percent of the black community is currently vaccinated.

On top of therefore creating legislation re: vaccine or proof of vaccination mandates that IMHO leads to a slippery slope, a stat like that can absolutely make the case that any legislation should fail because whether intentional or not, there's a race based effect.

But hey, according to that article you posted, they're all just getting misled by fox news.

No one said mutations can't occur in the face of a vaccinated population.  They are more likely to occur with less of a vaccinated population because there are more virus particles out there.  Numbers.