Author Topic: Coronavirus SZN Forever  (Read 357837 times)

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loyaljetsfan

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3135 on: December 01, 2020, 12:58:23 PM »
^ elite post....too bad it's wasted on a guy who delivers pizza for a living.

What kind of pizza? Asking for a friend

Miamipuck

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3136 on: December 01, 2020, 01:08:20 PM »
Lol I work in a super market so I am right up there with pizza delivery guy. I do wear a mask 10 hours a day plus and freaking can't stand it yet realize the benefits but still.........
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MBGreen

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3137 on: December 01, 2020, 01:09:54 PM »
Lol I work in a super market so I am right up there with pizza delivery guy. I do wear a mask 10 hours a day plus and freaking can't stand it yet realize the benefits but still.........

I thought you were a swashbuckler on a pirate ship now.
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Miamipuck

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3138 on: December 01, 2020, 01:19:35 PM »
I thought you were a swashbuckler on a pirate ship now.

This summer and fall I was, I live in NY no freaking way am I going on a Pirate boat in 20 foot seas to freeze my funbags off. I will let those crazyass crab fishermen do that.
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Jumbo

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3139 on: December 01, 2020, 01:37:25 PM »
Sorry for interjecting in this thread, but anywhere this information is being denied is dangerous.

By most accounts, the USA is now over 80% of people wearing masks in public in the vast majority of states: https://covidcast.cmu.edu/?sensor=fb-survey-smoothed_wearing_mask&level=state&date=20201022&signalType=value&encoding=color&mode=top10 (just one source but you can find others that will confirm the same). This is more than significant parts of Europe and even Asia at this point.

Previously, the 80% threshold was being pushed as the amount of Americans that would need to wear masks in order to make infections plummet, e.g.: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/masks-covid-19-infections-would-plummet-new-study-says . Although some put the figure now at 95% (which is absurdly high for any population to conform to for basically anything)

Prior studies before March often found little efficacy in cloth masking, which is why no one pushed back on Fauci/CDC/et al. in March when they were saying that people should not wear masks in order to save them for healthcare workers. The WHO did a review of face masks in 2019, took the 10 most best for review, and these were the ones they picked out: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjAnbJsXYAAix2j.jpg

Even some reviews from this year find little efficacy with widespread usage of cloth masking, e.g.: https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

In general, it's tough to find significant correlations between any measured mandated NPI and growth rate in cases, which you can play with here: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/government-response-stringency-index-vs-biweekly-change-in-confirmed-covid-19-cases?time=2020-11-30..latest

Does that mean no one should wear masks, ever? I don't think so, there are scenarios where it can probably be a help especially if you'll be in close quarters with others for significant periods inside. But all of this "wear a cloth/surgical mask at all times or you don't believe in THE SCIENCE" bullshit doesn't really help, either. I don't understand the inclination to pretend that THE SCIENCE is so ironclad either: before this year, it was highly debated whether for both in medical settings, and in population settings, widespread use could work to stop the spread of disease.

And that's before we even get into the efficacy of people who wear the same mask for months on end without washing or changing it, when most studies assume that people change or wash them often. "Proper use" =/= the way much of the general public uses masks. The data on widespread mask wearing is nowhere near ironclad, which is the most generous I'm willing to give. Pretending otherwise is... dangerous?


I'm glad we had this discussion about Quinnen Williams.

Italian Seafood

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3140 on: December 01, 2020, 02:32:38 PM »
This is such a freaking disgusting comment on so many levels.

Wasn't expecting any kind of intelligent comeback from MB Science lol.

Dude, this is not a matter of opinion...

Yeah, it is.
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

MBGreen

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3141 on: December 01, 2020, 02:45:50 PM »
Wasn't expecting any kind of intelligent comeback from MB Science lol.



I'm not here to deliver witty comebacks.  The hope was to educate non-believing turnips like yourself, so that someday society can return to normal.


Clearly...that's not gonna happen anytime soon.  And the blame is squarely on people like yourself.
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ons

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3142 on: December 01, 2020, 02:49:04 PM »
Even some reviews from this year find little efficacy with widespread usage of cloth masking, e.g.: https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is an explicitly political anti-universal healthcare lobbying group that has previously supported research claiming HIV doesn't cause AIDS, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that vaccines cause autism.

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In general, it's tough to find significant correlations between any measured mandated NPI and growth rate in cases, which you can play with here: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/government-response-stringency-index-vs-biweekly-change-in-confirmed-covid-19-cases?time=2020-11-30..latest

It's disingenuous to correlate mandated NPI and growth rate in cases across countries that have such different cultural associations with mask-wearing and public health. In Japan, for instance, the government did astonishingly little, but there has been a culture of mask-wearing when you have a cold for decades, so people wore masks without government interference.

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I don't understand the inclination to pretend that THE SCIENCE is so ironclad either: before this year, it was highly debated whether for both in medical settings, and in population settings, widespread use could work to stop the spread of disease.

This is demonstrably false. This year THE SCIENCE has significantly more incentive to study the effects of mask-wearing at population levels, thus leading to more conclusive studies. But, there are numerous peer-reviewed studies from the past decade supporting the use of masks in healthcare workers and community health contexts:
In 2013:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24229526/
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Results: The median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks. Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask.
A study in 2014 found that the reason face-masks didn't work to contain influenza in the past is because NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE WORE THEM.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4293989/
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Outside the hospital environment, the effectiveness of facemasks in containing the spread of airborne diseases in the general population has been diminished largely due to improper use and lack of user compliance... Another Australian study found that while adherence to mask-wearing significantly reduced the risk for influenza-like infections, less than 50% of the participants in their study wore facemasks regularly.
A study in 2015 summarized previous studies, showing mask usage is useful in both healthcare and community settings:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25858901/
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Several randomised clinical trials of facemasks have been conducted in community and healthcare settings, using widely varying interventions, including mixed interventions (such as masks and handwashing), and diverse outcomes. Of the nine trials of facemasks identified in community settings, in all but one, facemasks were used for respiratory protection of well people. They found that facemasks and facemasks plus hand hygiene may prevent infection in community settings, subject to early use and compliance.
More in 2010:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20092668/
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There is some evidence to support the wearing of masks or respirators during illness to protect others, and public health emphasis on mask wearing during illness may help to reduce influenza virus transmission.
In healthcare settings in 2014:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4294054/
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For a novel respiratory virus that could potentially cause severe disease with reports of transmission to healthcare workers, a good and cost-effective way to prevent its transmission in the healthcare setting is through barrier precautions, which include the use of gloves, gowns and masks.

The debate, to the extent which it existed, has always been about which masks block against specific strains of various diseases, not whether masks are generally useful. Masks have been known to be useful for a century.


And then this year, looking at peer-reviewed scientifically backed health journals specifically studying the 2019-coronavirus, there is ample evidence that masks are important tools for controlling this pandemic:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32917603/
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We have demonstrated a simple optical measurement method to evaluate the efficacy of masks to reduce the transmission of respiratory droplets during regular speech. In proof-of-principle studies, we compared a variety of commonly available mask types and observed that some mask types approach the performance of standard surgical masks, while some mask alternatives, such as neck gaiters or bandanas, offer very little protection.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.05.20207241v3
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An N95 respirator blocked 99% of the cough aerosol, a medical grade procedure mask blocked 59%, a 3-ply cotton cloth face mask blocked 51%, and a polyester neck gaiter blocked 47% as a single layer and 60% when folded into a double layer. In contrast, the face shield blocked 2% of the cough aerosol. Our results suggest that face masks and neck gaiters are preferable to face shields as source control devices for cough aerosols.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.11.20145086v1
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Whether manikin or human, wearing a face covering decreased the number of projected droplets by >1000-fold. We estimated that a person standing 2m from someone coughing without a mask is exposed to over 1000 times more respiratory droplets than from someone standing 5 cm away wearing a basic single layer mask. Our results indicate that face coverings show consistent efficacy at blocking respiratory droplets.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32624649/
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We use qualitative visualizations of emulated coughs and sneezes to examine how material- and design-choices impact the extent to which droplet-laden respiratory jets are blocked. Loosely folded face masks and bandana-style coverings provide minimal stopping-capability for the smallest aerosolized respiratory droplets. Well-fitted homemade masks with multiple layers of quilting fabric, and off-the-shelf cone style masks, proved to be the most effective in reducing droplet dispersal. These masks were able to curtail the speed and range of the respiratory jets significantly, albeit with some leakage through the mask material and from small gaps along the edges.
And even in studies specifically acknowledging that there are many flaws in mask studies, the conclusion is evident:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
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Nevertheless, most scientists are confident that they can say something prescriptive about wearing masks. It’s not the only solution, says Gandhi, “but I think it is a profoundly important pillar of pandemic control”. As Digard puts it: “Masks work, but they are not infallible. And, therefore, keep your distance.”

And in peer-reviewed journals, evidence also shows wearing masks has also led to decreasing case-counts:
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_campaign=MEDIA+ADVISORY%3A+Wehby+FT+AOP+6-11-20&utm_content=From+Health+Affairs%3A++Mask+Use+Could+Prevent+200%2C000%2B+US+COVID-19+Cases&stream=top&
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Mandating face mask use in public is associated with a decline in the daily COVID-19 growth rate by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after state face mask orders were signed, respectively. Estimates suggest that as a result of the implementation of these mandates, more than 200,000 COVID-19 cases were averted by May 22, 2020. The findings suggest that requiring face mask use in public could help in mitigating the spread of COVID-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6940e3.htm
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The number of COVID-19 cases stabilized and began to decrease approximately 2 weeks after local officials began mandating mask wearing (throughout several counties and cities) and enhanced sanitation practices.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm?s_cid=mm6947e2_w
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Masks are an important intervention for mitigating the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 (1–6), and countywide mask mandates appear to have contributed to the mitigation of COVID-19 spread in Kansas counties that had them in place. Community-level mitigation strategies emphasizing use of masks, physical distancing, staying at home when ill, and enhanced hygiene practices can help reduce the transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

The CDC agrees:
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Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2. The prevention benefit of masking is derived from the combination of source control and personal protection for the mask wearer. The relationship between source control and personal protection is likely complementary and possibly synergistic14, so that individual benefit increases with increasing community mask use.
The WHO agrees:
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Masks are a key measure to suppress transmission and save lives.

Masks should be used as part of a comprehensive ‘Do it all!’ approach including physical distancing, avoiding crowded, closed and close-contact settings, good ventilation, cleaning hands, covering sneezes and coughs, and more.

Depending on the type, masks can be used for either protection of healthy persons or to prevent onward transmission.




Masks help. Masks alone are not a cure-all. Keeping case counts down until a vaccine is ready by wearing masks regularly, maintaining social distancing when practical, and minimizing indoor contacts with people outside your household will help Quinnen Williams to be able to play in front of a full stadium in 2021.



Also MB - I was a line cook for over seven years until September when I finally finished up my pre-reqs in order to start my doctoral-level healthcare degree full time. No need to pee on food service workers by implying we can't understand science.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 02:50:57 PM by ons »

Derek Smalls

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3143 on: December 01, 2020, 02:55:39 PM »
Thanks a lot, MB.

MBGreen

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3144 on: December 01, 2020, 02:56:18 PM »
Quote from: bojanglesman
"Hello good sir GM, may we pretty please have your throwaway centers and gords please??!?  I'll suck yo'dick!"

MBGreen

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3145 on: December 01, 2020, 02:58:34 PM »



Also MB - I was a line cook for over seven years until September when I finally finished up my pre-reqs in order to start my doctoral-level healthcare degree full time. No need to pee on food service workers by implying we can't understand science.

It wasn't meant to be a blanket statement, but i apologize if you took it the wrong way.  Food service folks have been amazing during the pandemic.

Obviously science wasn't a pre-req to deliver pizzas....was basically  the point i was trying to get across.  Since science clearly evaded IS when he was growing up.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 03:02:15 PM by MBGreen »
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"Hello good sir GM, may we pretty please have your throwaway centers and gords please??!?  I'll suck yo'dick!"

Derek Smalls

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3146 on: December 01, 2020, 03:03:01 PM »
If only we had a mod in here to move all the off-topic stuff to any thread other than the one about our best young player and most positive part of the season.

MBGreen

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3147 on: December 01, 2020, 03:04:18 PM »
If only we had a mod in here to move all the off-topic stuff to any thread other than the one about our best young player and most positive part of the season.

Cut backs, man.  We all had to sacrifice during the pandemic.  Put a mask on.


EDIT: FYI... The most positive part of the season won't happen until Black Monday.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 03:06:28 PM by MBGreen »
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"Hello good sir GM, may we pretty please have your throwaway centers and gords please??!?  I'll suck yo'dick!"

CatoTheElder

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3148 on: December 01, 2020, 03:07:47 PM »
Put it in the Gase thread.
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Italian Seafood

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #3149 on: December 01, 2020, 03:10:42 PM »
I'm not here to deliver witty comebacks.  The hope was to educate non-believing turnips like yourself, so that someday society can return to normal.

Clearly...that's not gonna happen anytime soon.  And the blame is squarely on people like yourself.

Always fun when you tell other people to educate themselves.

Yeah, the blame can't be on politicians who set terrible policy and don't follow their own orders. It has to be people who dispute the almighty groupthink. Cuomo killed more people than anyone by sending infected patients into nursing homes, so pardon me if I don't listen to him or Murphy or fake Pat Riley in CA. No thanks.


If only we had a mod in here to move all the off-topic stuff to any thread other than the one about our best young player and most positive part of the season.

MB is a mod and he started all this excrement because he can't tolerate someone with a different view than his own. I say he shouldn't be a mod and we change his username to Coach Gase.
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

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