Author Topic: Coronavirus SZN Forever  (Read 357947 times)

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Jumbo

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1845 on: April 27, 2020, 09:58:31 PM »
OK. So then would it be your position that if a President were to mandate that the federal minimum wage was going up to $15 effective immediately, it would not have a large short-term impact on the economy?

The president can't do that. That's part of the reason the president's impact is overrated - they themselves are not acting unilaterally on most of these things, and executive agencies have a much larger impact than people give them credit for. Those agencies are technically an extension of the presidency but considering most of them have bipartisan/nonpartisan mandates, meh.

If it's something like an Obama/Trump first half of first term where the legislative branch is also fully controlled by the party then maybe I'd see the point but that doesn't happen particularly often, and even then someone like Trump didn't really get much of his agenda done in that first half even compared to Obama on the fiscal end of policy. What both presidents did get done were not drastic steps like more than doubling the current minimum wage either. The President theoretically *could* have such an impact depending on who controls Congress/the judiciary but it's not likely especially considering party moderates in Congress and how things swing in midterm elections, but with the country's polarization we could start seeing it happen. But even with Presidents acting with more and more executive power, the things they do tend to effect the country's long-term positions, but economies can be slow in reacting to trends, even in a Coronavirus-like situation (see the current stock market "boom").

But assuming they could, considering IIRC ~40% of people make under that amount, and considering the drastic differences in CoL around the country, it would probably have a somewhat marked short-term impact on the economy, yes. Some level of increase in AD + some inflationary effects + probably some additional unemployment would be most likely.

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1846 on: April 28, 2020, 07:58:51 AM »
I definitely don't think the economy is healthy right now.

But the stock market doing well does signify faith in the economy recovering and growing

for who? betty on minimum gets no benefit if he bosses stock portfolio increased 3.8%.

 stock market means dick to normal people, just a metric to measure how much your bosses are freaking you over.

Johnny English

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1847 on: April 28, 2020, 08:07:05 AM »
I definitely don't think the economy is healthy right now.

But the stock market doing well does signify faith in the economy recovering and growing

No it doesn't. There you go again, thinking that the stock market and the economy are somehow linked.
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Johnny English

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1848 on: April 28, 2020, 08:14:01 AM »
The president can't do that. That's part of the reason the president's impact is overrated - they themselves are not acting unilaterally on most of these things, and executive agencies have a much larger impact than people give them credit for. Those agencies are technically an extension of the presidency but considering most of them have bipartisan/nonpartisan mandates, meh.

If it's something like an Obama/Trump first half of first term where the legislative branch is also fully controlled by the party then maybe I'd see the point but that doesn't happen particularly often, and even then someone like Trump didn't really get much of his agenda done in that first half even compared to Obama on the fiscal end of policy. What both presidents did get done were not drastic steps like more than doubling the current minimum wage either. The President theoretically *could* have such an impact depending on who controls Congress/the judiciary but it's not likely especially considering party moderates in Congress and how things swing in midterm elections, but with the country's polarization we could start seeing it happen. But even with Presidents acting with more and more executive power, the things they do tend to effect the country's long-term positions, but economies can be slow in reacting to trends, even in a Coronavirus-like situation (see the current stock market "boom").

But assuming they could, considering IIRC ~40% of people make under that amount, and considering the drastic differences in CoL around the country, it would probably have a somewhat marked short-term impact on the economy, yes. Some level of increase in AD + some inflationary effects + probably some additional unemployment would be most likely.

Ah, OK. That's a slightly better post than your first one. So what you're saying is that the President has the ability to have a profound effect upon the economy in both the short and long term, but that the checks and balances provided by the legislative branch have historically prevented a President from unilaterally doing anything too economically impactful. I understand and agree with that in principle, but I still don't think it's entirely correct. After all, the President's trade tariffs on China were not prevented by the House, nor could they have been; would you say that they were economically unimpactful?
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Jumbo

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1849 on: April 28, 2020, 08:39:05 AM »
Ah, OK. That's a slightly better post than your first one. So what you're saying is that the President has the ability to have a profound effect upon the economy in both the short and long term, but that the checks and balances provided by the legislative branch have historically prevented a President from unilaterally doing anything too economically impactful. I understand and agree with that in principle, but I still don't think it's entirely correct. After all, the President's trade tariffs on China were not prevented by the House, nor could they have been; would you say that they were economically unimpactful?

Wow, thank you arbiter of good posts. I'll be sure to take this into account next time I decide to post.

My first post says "generally negligible in the short-term." That doesn't mean never has an impact at any time and doesn't mean they can't do anything. That just means that in general, the president can't and doesn't do that much to move the needle of the economy in the short-term. Tariffs are one example of something they can do to affect the economy, but it's just one thing, and the US hasn't significantly used tariffs for decades until Trump came into office.

Even policies on taxes, healthcare, etc. don't actually tend to have that much short-term impact outside of expectations. In the long-run, the president's policies do tend to have some level of impact, but that's going to be typically after they leave office.



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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1850 on: April 28, 2020, 09:02:09 AM »
I think people just enjoy attributing things both positive and negative to the president. Economy being one of them.

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1851 on: April 28, 2020, 03:14:34 PM »


Even policies on taxes, healthcare, etc. don't actually tend to have that much short-term impact outside of expectations. In the long-run, the president's policies do tend to have some level of impact, but that's going to be typically after they leave office.

I have now personally convinced Jumbo and mj to endorse M4A

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1852 on: April 28, 2020, 04:51:35 PM »
No it doesn't. There you go again, thinking that the stock market and the economy are somehow linked.

I am of the belief that people controlling all the wealth know more about money than the people who do not. The stock market is based (heavily) on projections of the future and events predicted over the next year. It's not so much a indicator as it is an educated guess.

There's a reason the DOW has been steadily rising instead of sitting at 10k right now.

It's absolutely freaking absurd to assume the economy and the stock market are not linked. But this doesn't mean that the DOW Jones is an ultimate measurement of the economy either

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1853 on: April 28, 2020, 04:55:09 PM »
for who? betty on minimum gets no benefit if he bosses stock portfolio increased 3.8%.

 stock market means dick to normal people, just a metric to measure how much your bosses are freaking you over.

That is in no way shape or form what I said. It's not the stock market rising, it's about why the stock market is rising.

The stock market is a guess or a prediction but can and will be wrong at times. But right now that predictions is the economy won't bleed nearly as bad as ordinary people are thinking.

Jumbo

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1854 on: April 28, 2020, 05:25:42 PM »

I have now personally convinced Jumbo and mj to endorse M4A

you did it reddit

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Heismanberg

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1857 on: April 29, 2020, 09:14:09 AM »
Good for those meat plant workers.  Tell Trump to suck it. 
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guinness77

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1858 on: April 29, 2020, 09:42:16 AM »
https://twitter.com/reuvenblau/status/1255290725744418816?s=21

AYFKM
I hate DeBlasio with a passion, I’ve said it many times but I was just watching his daily briefing and some reporter asked him if he wanted to apologize and he basically refused. And, I agree with him completely, probably for the first time ever. No one, any age group, religion, race, sect, etc are getting proper burials so why should this particular, small, sect of a religion get to do it and then cry racism when the mayor actually does the right thing for once?

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #1859 on: April 29, 2020, 11:59:55 AM »
They want to pray to god all the time let those freaking idiots meet him. The only problem is those jackasses will infect 10 people each before they go out. I am not sure what Deblasio did but if he arrested those religious idiots each and every one of them good for him.
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