Author Topic: Coronavirus SZN Forever  (Read 359573 times)

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SixFeetDeep

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #360 on: March 14, 2020, 09:50:37 PM »
Accurate state of people in America right now:
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1238951523201228801?s=21

Comparing us to China is outrageous
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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #361 on: March 14, 2020, 10:02:00 PM »
Accurate state of people in America right now:
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1238951523201228801?s=21

Comparing us to China is outrageous

That dude is the freaking worst.

reuben

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #362 on: March 14, 2020, 10:05:07 PM »


I wasn't worried before, but the prospect of a baseball bat shoved up my derriere might be a game changer.

SixFeetDeep

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #363 on: March 14, 2020, 10:08:03 PM »
Quote
Italy has reported its biggest day-to-day jump in cases of COVID-19. National health authorities told reporters on Saturday that health officials recorded 3,497 new cases in 24 hours. That’s roughly a 20% increase in cases from the day before. A little more than half of those new cases occurred in Lombardy, the populous northern region which has been hardest hit in Europe’s worst outbreak. Italy’s total cases now tally 21,157.

The death toll rose by 175. A day earlier, the same authorities had predicted glumly that Italy would still see a jump in cases despite a national lockdown that began on March 9, barely two days after severe restrictions on personal movement in the north. They cited irresponsible behavior by many citizens, who despite the earlier warnings not to gather in large numbers, headed to beaches or ski resorts, and hung out together in town squares, especially after the closure of schools.

If you don’t think this is an eventually possibility in the US at some point, idk what to tell you. This is currently happening elsewhere. This is in a country under complete lockdown.
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d sw0rdz

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #364 on: March 14, 2020, 10:18:16 PM »
the potential strain on healthcare resources has to be emphasized. it's not just the covid cases; if we're pushed to the brink, ALL patients at these institutions suffer. the winter time is usually the busiest times for hospitals already, and is the likeliest time that ICUs would already be close to capacity, not factoring in a pandemic

Miamipuck

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #365 on: March 14, 2020, 10:33:12 PM »


I wasn't worried before, but the prospect of a baseball bat shoved up my derriere might be a game changer.

That's only 4% though, more worrisome is the 68% chance of getting fisted by a black man or the 14% chance of getting eaten by jaws.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 10:35:30 PM by Miamipuck »
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dcm1602

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #366 on: March 14, 2020, 10:40:19 PM »
the potential strain on healthcare resources has to be emphasized. it's not just the covid cases; if we're pushed to the brink, ALL patients at these institutions suffer. the winter time is usually the busiest times for hospitals already, and is the likeliest time that ICUs would already be close to capacity, not factoring in a pandemic

The fact that almost elective surgeries across the entire country are getting canceled is going to bog up the Healthcare system for months once this over. Depending on how long this thing goes, healthcare resources could be pretty fucked for a long time

d sw0rdz

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #367 on: March 14, 2020, 10:48:01 PM »
The fact that almost elective surgeries across the entire country are getting canceled is going to bog up the Healthcare system for months once this over. Depending on how long this thing goes, healthcare resources could be pretty fucked for a long time

the reason why elective surgeries are elective is that these procedures can be done on a non-urgent basis and patients are relatively healthy otherwise. you brought up cardiac surgeries before but those are usually urgent/emergent; it's their job but cardiothoracic surgeons won't crack open a patient's chest unless they absolutely have to. elective surgeries should and will be pushed back pretty easily if there is a lack of time/resources down the line. any necessary/emergent surgeries will still be taken care of by trauma or acute care surgery throughout this entire time.

i don't think the backlog of elective procedures that's going to result from all of this is something to get too worried about

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #368 on: March 14, 2020, 11:16:46 PM »
Really cool situations at DFW and O'Hare right now...

5 hour long waits at baggage claims and customs

Shoulder to shoulder crowds just marinating in coronavirus
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dcm1602

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #369 on: March 14, 2020, 11:31:01 PM »
the reason why elective surgeries are elective is that these procedures can be done on a non-urgent basis and patients are relatively healthy otherwise. you brought up cardiac surgeries before but those are usually urgent/emergent; it's their job but cardiothoracic surgeons won't crack open a patient's chest unless they absolutely have to. elective surgeries should and will be pushed back pretty easily if there is a lack of time/resources down the line. any necessary/emergent surgeries will still be taken care of by trauma or acute care surgery throughout this entire time.

i don't think the backlog of elective procedures that's going to result from all of this is something to get too worried about

I managed an OR for years, I work in cardiac surgery now.

Yes elective surgerys are elective and most are (fairly) healthy. But many of these problems exacerbate or spread. Urology and gynecological procedures are extremely common elective, and many deal with cancer. Sure you can put it off, increasing the risk of metastatis. With orthopedics you have the risk of patients being imobile making injuries harder to recover from (many are older) increasing the risk of dvts embolism etc.

Hernias strangulate and become emergencies.

As for cardiac. The overwhelming majority are elective. I work at a major level 1 trauma center and they're going to be canceling the majority of its cardiac surgeries.

It's a much bigger deal than you think

d sw0rdz

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #370 on: March 15, 2020, 12:13:52 AM »
I managed an OR for years, I work in cardiac surgery now.

Yes elective surgerys are elective and most are (fairly) healthy. But many of these problems exacerbate or spread. Urology and gynecological procedures are extremely common elective, and many deal with cancer. Sure you can put it off, increasing the risk of metastatis. With orthopedics you have the risk of patients being imobile making injuries harder to recover from (many are older) increasing the risk of dvts embolism etc.

Hernias strangulate and become emergencies.

As for cardiac. The overwhelming majority are elective. I work at a major level 1 trauma center and they're going to be canceling the majority of its cardiac surgeries.

It's a much bigger deal than you think

thanks for the info

i can see the toll of having to push back some elective surgeries such as the uro/gyn procedures you mentioned but it seems that toll would be more so on the patient having to delay it and the consequences associated with that, unfortunately. i don't think a backlog of these sorts of procedures will 'spend' our healthcare resources the way the pandemic will be doing right now. if anything, having a lack of available personnel/surgeons/supplies will be entirely dependent on what the state of the pandemic is within the US. once we reach a point where elective surgeries can start again, we should be at a pretty stable point with regards to availability of personnel and supplies. sure, the OR will have a long backlog of procedures to try and get through, but i don't think it'll have the potential to break the health infrastructure of america the way the pandemic will.

regarding ortho, i guess it depends on what type of surgery you're talking about and what the institution deems as 'elective' vs urgent/emergent, but at my institution any hip fracture is of course an obvious admission and there's a pretty aggressive algorithm that's followed to get those patients to surgery within 48 hours, as the data overwhelmingly shows that geriatric patients do better when that occurs. i haven't heard of any plans of that being halted for now, and i don't imagine those will be

if a hernia strangulates and becomes an emergency, a hernia repair is no longer 'elective', and they'd be going to the OR with trauma/ACS immediately. coronavirus will not be changing that

the delay/backlog of OR procedures will of course be a bitch, but once the situation is stable enough for the ORs to start going again for elective procedures, i don't see it having the potential of breaking the system to the point that we're practicing catastrophic medicine the way the coronavirus does. i think the biggest thing that'll be affected is the actual timing of when the ORs would actually be able to start going again. in italy it's gotten so bad in some places that radiologists and pathologists, i.e non-direct care doctors, have had to be called in to do excrement they've never done before like manage vents. if surgeons have to be called in because they're the only ones left to manage some of these coronavirus patients medically, that'll be the biggest hindrance to the ORs starting back up, namely in that it's directly causing the lack of healthy/available surgical personnel.

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #371 on: March 15, 2020, 06:06:07 AM »
That's only 4% though, more worrisome is the 68% chance of getting fisted by a black man or the 14% chance of getting eaten by jaws.
You'll be happy to know you have a 5% chance of sucking a dick.

SixFeetDeep

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #372 on: March 15, 2020, 07:03:10 AM »
Hoboken, New Jersey announces daily 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. curfew in effort to stop coronavirus
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SixFeetDeep

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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #373 on: March 15, 2020, 07:33:18 AM »
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-cautionary-tale-italy-dont-do-what-we-did/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

A coronavirus cautionary tale from Italy: Don’t do what we did
Many of us were too selfish to follow suggestions to change our behavior. Now we’re in lockdown and people are needlessly dying.

ROME – “As in any war, we have to choose who to treat and who not.”

That was a headline on March 9 in Il Corriere della Sera, a leading newspaper in Italy, that informed us that hospitals in Italy’s north, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak in our country, were being stretched thin and the health care system was on the brink of collapse.

An anesthesiologist at a hospital in Bergamo, one of the cities with the most cases of Covid-19, the illness caused by the new coronavirus, told the paper that the intensive care unit was already at capacity, and doctors were being forced to start making difficult triage decisions, admitting people who desperately need mechanical ventilation based on age, life expectancy, and other factors. Just like in wartime. The article was inexplicably placed on page 15, while the main headline on the newspaper’s front page relayed the political quarrels over the measures to curb the contagion.

The hospital in Bergamo was not the only hospital in the area dealing with a lack of capacity and rationing of care. The same day, I heard from a manager in the Lombardy health care system, among the most advanced and well-funded in Europe, that he saw anesthesiologists weeping in the hospital hallways because of the choices they are going to have to make.

In the days since, overwhelmed hospitals have set up tents as makeshift hospital wards, and cargo containers have been placed at the entrances of medical centers to sort out patients coming at an increasing pace. Some of the people who can’t get medical care are dying in their homes.

As more medical professionals started to describe similar situations on social media and in interviews, the Italian society of anesthesiologists published extraordinary new guidelines to help doctors facing ethical dilemmas, making clear that the “first come, first served” criterion that had been used among patients with the same illnesses and level of risk in ordinary times was not appropriate in dealing with the current emergency.

Until last week, the Italian public health care system had the capacity to care for everyone. Our country has universal health care, so patients aren’t turned away from hospitals here. But in a matter of days, the system was being felled by a virus that I, and many other Italians, had failed to take seriously.

The inability of the medical system to deal with the flow of patients in critical condition is not one of the problems of this complex medical emergency. It is the problem. I shouldn’t have been surprised. As a journalist, I had read, heard, and spoken to several experts explaining that the most immediate threat of Covid-19 was the hospital system becoming overwhelmed, and therefore the most pressing need was to avoid too many people getting sick at the same time, as resources are limited. (It’s what’s called “flattening the curve.”)

But that information was somehow stored in some remote interstice of my mind, covered by an incessant flow of bits and charts on the mortality rate of the elderly, political mismanagement, quarrels over under-testing and over-testing, market collapses, projections on the economic impact of the epidemic, and so on. All of this is, of course, extremely relevant — but at the same time feels totally irrelevant when lives are being lost in a situation that was preventable. As of Friday night, 1,266 people have died in Italy due to the outbreak.

So here’s my warning for the United States: It didn’t have to come to this.

We of course couldn’t stop the emergence of a previously unknown and deadly virus. But we could have mitigated the situation we are now in, in which people who could have been saved are dying. I, and too many others, could have taken a simple yet morally loaded action: We could have stayed home.

What has happened in Italy shows that less-than-urgent appeals to the public by the government to slightly change habits regarding social interactions aren’t enough when the terrible outcomes they are designed to prevent are not yet apparent; when they become evident, it’s generally too late to act. I and many other Italians just didn’t see the need to change our routines for a threat we could not see.

Italy has now been in lockdown since March 9; it took weeks after the virus first appeared here to realize that severe measures were absolutely necessary.

According to several data scientists, Italy is about 10 days ahead of Spain, Germany, and France in the epidemic progression, and 13 to 16 days ahead of the United Kingdom and the United States. That means those countries have the opportunity to take measures that today may look excessive and disproportionate, yet from the future, where I am now, are perfectly rational in order to avoid a health care system collapse. The United States has some 45,000 ICU beds, and even in a moderate outbreak scenario, some 200,000 Americans will need intensive care.
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Re: Coronavirus SZN Forever
« Reply #374 on: March 15, 2020, 07:34:52 AM »
CoronaVirus only affects you if you’re a bitch

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