Houston Astros*

[AlioTheFool]

Manfred did that thinking those who were out for blood would be satisfied with the MLB imposed penalty on the Stros and the certainty that their braintrust would be out.

I don't think he was banking on the complete and total PR disaster that the Astros players have become as they attempt to navigate this situation.

Put it to you this way, if I was an opposing pitcher on an NL team playing the Astros in interleague play in my home ballpark and Verlander comes up to bat, he's getting one right in his back.

I don't see how the player reactions could have helped regardless. Either they're defiant and everyone reacts just like we are, or they were apologetic and everyone would say "See? They admit they stole a title!"

I think he was probably banking on it being smaller than it turned out and was just hoping he could get full cooperation from the players since they had immunity.

I've said it before, I don't care what park they're in, they better be ready for a few aimed at the ear. These guys are lucky Sabathia retired.

[mj2sexay]

I don't see how the player reactions could have helped regardless. Either they're defiant and everyone reacts just like we are, or they were apologetic and everyone would say "See? They admit they stole a title!"

I think he was probably banking on it being smaller than it turned out and was just hoping he could get full cooperation from the players since they had immunity.

I've said it before, I don't care what park they're in, they better be ready for a few aimed at the ear. These guys are lucky Sabathia retired.

Granted its a different situation, but I think the American public is actually pretty forgiving if people are honest. As Tricky Dick learned a long time ago and Slick Willy for that matter, it's not so much the action but the lie or a lack of contrition that will bring you down.

[Johnny English]

As Tricky Dick learned a long time ago and Slick Willy for that matter, it's not so much the action but the lie or a lack of contrition that will bring you down.

Quoting this for future use

[d sw0rdz]

I don't see how the player reactions could have helped regardless. Either they're defiant and everyone reacts just like we are, or they were apologetic and everyone would say "See? They admit they stole a title!"

Admission and its implications is irrelevant. The cheating has been confirmed whether they admit to it or not. They cheated, they stole a title, they fucked over their peers. Given this, the minimum/baseline response to this all can be nothing but apology and remorse. They have refused to do this and have in fact done the complete opposite, adding insult on top of the disgrace their cheating has been. It was the absolute least they could do, and they spat in everybody's face. And now their owner is going to force them to give a fake apology, which is honestly just another fvcking insult.

This is all absolutely a disgrace and unacceptable. The MLB has to come down hard on the Astros players for behaving the way they have. The scum that is the Wilpon family has already detached me greatly from a team and a sport that I once loved. The response given by the MLB and the astros is making me consider leaving it completely. They're just getting away with it, again

[SixFeetDeep]

“ On August 4th, the game with the most trash can bangs, the Astros scored 16 earned runs. Mike Bolsinger, a Blue Jays reliever, allowed 4 earned runs in 0.1 IP. He never pitched in the big leagues again.”

“ Yup. And there was a bang for 12 of his 29 pitches (41%) which is well above their season average of 14%”

“ Bolsinger was an offspeed pitcher that relied on deception to get people out. It makes sense that there was an increase during his pitches, since he threw more offspeed stuff. He wasn't a great pitcher, but having every pitch outlined for the batter made his low 90s fastball BP.”


excrement like this is just anecdotal evidence of why what the Astros did had so many layers of shittyness

[IATA]

I'm not sure that suspending dudes for actions 2 years ago while on a different team is the proper action, either. Plus you're then getting players to try and turn on each other and place the blame on everyone but themselves. It just becomes a witch hunt. Mlbpa would lose their minds.

There's no way any of the Dodgers would want either title just given to them, they've said as much.

They won't take the title away, that's an ultimately pointless exercise when the benefits have already been reaped.


The best thing they can do is what they're doing. Players reputations are tarnished, jobs have been lost, presumably this type of cheating is now gone from the game.

[AlioTheFool]

“ On August 4th, the game with the most trash can bangs, the Astros scored 16 earned runs. Mike Bolsinger, a Blue Jays reliever, allowed 4 earned runs in 0.1 IP. He never pitched in the big leagues again.”

“ Yup. And there was a bang for 12 of his 29 pitches (41%) which is well above their season average of 14%”

“ Bolsinger was an offspeed pitcher that relied on deception to get people out. It makes sense that there was an increase during his pitches, since he threw more offspeed stuff. He wasn't a great pitcher, but having every pitch outlined for the batter made his low 90s fastball BP.”


excrement like this is just anecdotal evidence of why what the Astros did had so many layers of shittyness

That's really the biggest part of the entire thing, and so many guys have spoken about it since news broke. People literally lost their jobs because the Astros cheated. Guys watched their friends be sent down, never to get called up again.

This is why I firmly believe we're going to see targeting by opposing pitchers this year. I rarely, if ever, condone guys throwing at batters. In this case, I won't blame anyone for it.

[AlioTheFool]

I'm not sure that suspending dudes for actions 2 years ago while on a different team is the proper action, either. Plus you're then getting players to try and turn on each other and place the blame on everyone but themselves. It just becomes a witch hunt. Mlbpa would lose their minds.

There's no way any of the Dodgers would want either title just given to them, they've said as much.

They won't take the title away, that's an ultimately pointless exercise when the benefits have already been reaped.


The best thing they can do is what they're doing. Players reputations are tarnished, jobs have been lost, presumably this type of cheating is now gone from the game.

ARod did steroids while playing for the Texas Rangers. He served a suspension as a member of the Yankees. The precedent is there. And that was a single offender, not an entire organizational effort.

I wouldn't say gifting the Dodgers a title is appropriate, but stripping it from the Astros would be, as would lengthy suspensions for all the players.

[AlioTheFool]

What will be interesting is how someone like Altuve is treated by Cooperstown some day. If Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds can't get into the Hall, how do you justify Altuve, no matter how well he plays the rest of his career?

[Italian Seafood]

I wouldn't say gifting the Dodgers a title is appropriate, but stripping it from the Astros would be, as would lengthy suspensions for all the players.

I agree, as a Dodger fan it is what it is. Again I mostly think of Kershaw, at the tail end of his prime, having such a great World Series at home and the inexplicable game in Houston after we had gotten the lead. The Dodgers have become like the Yankees where any given year they can reload and go back at it, but guys like Kershaw and Hill can't go back in time and be younger, guys like Puig aren't on the team anymore. That 2017 team was amazing all the way through, hopefully history shines a light on them because of this even though they didn't get the title they probably deserved. 

[SixFeetDeep]

https://twitter.com/pjhughes45/status/1222621228998938624?s=21

[guinness77]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/explosive-new-details-emerge-about-the-astros-cheating-scandal-000636683.html

[AlioTheFool]

I love how MLB Network flat out asked Hinch if players were wearing buzzers, and he meticulously didn't answer the question.

It's unreal that the players were given complete immunity.

[SixFeetDeep]

Former Blue Jays Pitcher Mike Bolsinger Is Suing The Cheating Astros For Ending His Career And Wants Them To Forfeit $31 Million

[delavan]

I wouldn't say gifting the Dodgers a title is appropriate,

but stripping it from the Astros would be, as would lengthy suspensions for all the players.

^ This.  Why does it have to be an either/or between the Astros and Dodgers?   Reggie Bush, a landslide Heisman Trophy winner was stripped of the Heisman because he received "improper benefits from sports marketing agents?"  Did that give him an advantage or put his opponents at a disadvantage on the actual field of play as was the case with the Astros?  If Bush got stripped the Astros should get zip.