Author Topic: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?  (Read 63728 times)

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loyaljetsfan

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #240 on: December 11, 2019, 08:01:59 PM »
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.

If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.

There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.

So you're settling for a head coach that's bad, but not THAT bad. In all seriousness, tell me ONE thing Gase has done to show you he's the right person for the job.

Also, Gase reports to the owner, so it's on Johnson fire him.


Italian Seafood

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #241 on: December 11, 2019, 08:18:01 PM »
No, it's literally the conversation we've had multiple times on here but apparently you're not paying attention.

The structure is fucked. Douglas won't fire Gase because he can't, it's not his job. GM and coach both report to the owner, who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the sole. While people who don't understand football keep making the most important football decisions, this club is fucked.

You banging on about how we would entrust people who we believe have made repeated bad decisions to make the next one is just plain freaking ignorant, because it has been discussed enough times on here. We're not just whining about replacing the excrement coach that the idiot owner hired with another excrement coach that the idiot owner likes, we're asking for structural reform of the team so that it can be run like pretty much every other team that isn't run by a proper football man. Please try and make the effort to keep up because it isn't difficult.

Ok, we have discussed this, I just alluded to it talking to MBGreen.

Guess what? That's not going to change either. Again, sorry. Reality is a real lover of the older lady.
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Derek Smalls

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #242 on: December 11, 2019, 08:34:40 PM »
So you're settling for a head coach that's bad, but not THAT bad. In all seriousness, tell me ONE thing Gase has done to show you he's the right person for the job.

Also, Gase reports to the owner, so it's on Johnson fire him.

I don't know if he's bad, but Darnold has 11 total TD and 2 Int in his last 5 games. The franchise is based on Sam Darnold. That's all anyone said this offseason. So are you happy with Gase's development? It's been somewhat of a mixed bag, but I think it's been more positive than negative.

He's shown he can draw up opening drives that can score on a relatively consistent basis, after being the worst opening drive team in the NFL for years.

The team competed in pretty much every game despite massive injuries seemingly every week. The team has not quit on Gase.

People thought he and Gregg Williams were going to clash, but they haven't, and the defense has been surprisingly good given the injuries. Most of that goes to Williams, but Gase is the head coach, so he gets some credit and some blame for the whole team.


But really, it all comes down to Darnold. Darnold seems to love Gase. That's not enough reason to keep Gase around, but if we're happy with Darnold's development, we should keep Gase and let him develop in a system. Drafting a QB and giving him 3 different systems in 3 seasons is a poor idea. Especially since I'm sure a segment on this board will quit on whoever we hire next season by November, which is about 9 months longer than the leash many of you gave Gase.

What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.

Jumbo

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #243 on: December 11, 2019, 08:43:01 PM »

But really, it all comes down to Darnold. Darnold seems to love Gase.

Who even knows if that's true - the QB is essentially obligated to say they like the HC

Johnny English

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #244 on: December 11, 2019, 09:05:59 PM »
So are you happy with Gase's development? It's been somewhat of a mixed bag, but I think it's been more positive than negative.

Holy excrement, are we watching the same games?

He's shown he can draw up opening drives that can score on a relatively consistent basis, after being the worst opening drive team in the NFL for years.

So? This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. No one is disputing his ability to watch video and draw up plays, he just has no idea how to call them at the right time. Again, he is a passing game co-ordinator and not a head coach or an OC.

The team competed in pretty much every game despite massive injuries seemingly every week. The team has not quit on Gase.

Really? Tell me more about how we competed against Philly or Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm not even mentioning the Patriots because, well, we've pretty much given up any hope of competing with them, haven't we? So, yay us for fighting hard against the 0-7 Dolphins and the the 0-11 Bengals, even if we did come up short against them. Great job Adam.

What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.

You mean apart from demonstrating that he's completely incapable of calling plays to respond to the defense that's on the field, and that he doesn't understand how to adapt his playbook to the players he has rather than building a playbook that takes advantage of the roster he has?

Are you seriously saying that you're OK with the club building a roster around a head coach who has failed at every senior coaching level when it has been on him to make it happen?

History is going to show Gase to be a complete fraud. He was Peyton's video and clipboard guy, then Chicago's failed OC, then Miami's failed HC, and now it's just magically going to all work out? He is the least qualified head coach in the NFL. 31 teams are laughing at us and you're defending him out of desperate hope that it will somehow work out.

Let me turn this around. What makes you think this is going to work?
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Derek Smalls

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #245 on: December 11, 2019, 10:03:50 PM »
Holy excrement, are we watching the same games?

So? This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. No one is disputing his ability to watch video and draw up plays, he just has no idea how to call them at the right time. Again, he is a passing game co-ordinator and not a head coach or an OC.

Really? Tell me more about how we competed against Philly or Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm not even mentioning the Patriots because, well, we've pretty much given up any hope of competing with them, haven't we? So, yay us for fighting hard against the 0-7 Dolphins and the the 0-11 Bengals, even if we did come up short against them. Great job Adam.

You mean apart from demonstrating that he's completely incapable of calling plays to respond to the defense that's on the field, and that he doesn't understand how to adapt his playbook to the players he has rather than building a playbook that takes advantage of the roster he has?

Are you seriously saying that you're OK with the club building a roster around a head coach who has failed at every senior coaching level when it has been on him to make it happen?

History is going to show Gase to be a complete fraud. He was Peyton's video and clipboard guy, then Chicago's failed OC, then Miami's failed HC, and now it's just magically going to all work out? He is the least qualified head coach in the NFL. 31 teams are laughing at us and you're defending him out of desperate hope that it will somehow work out.

Let me turn this around. What makes you think this is going to work?
See, you make a few good points, and then you go to the same hyperbolic excrement that everyone else on the anti-Gase train can't wait to use.

The dude has made a playoff appearance in the NFL and coached one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history during his greatest season. Calling him the least qualified coach in the NFL is just stupid, and it makes it hard to take the rest of the post that seriously.

Obviously, he hasn't done a great job. I've said a lot that I don't hate the idea of firing him. But do you really think that we would be better than 5-8 with Matt Rhule or whoever you would have wanted? Probably not. This team has fatal issues that would make pretty much any head coach look bad.

CatoTheElder

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #246 on: December 11, 2019, 11:15:46 PM »
Hyperbolic:Gase::Swagger:Rex
Quote
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Miamipuck

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #247 on: December 12, 2019, 01:18:43 AM »
Sure. I'm not arguing the case for what I think will happen, I'm arguing the case for what I think needs to happen if we're going to have any chance of seeing success. I'm aware that Gase will likely be here next year, but I'm not prepared to be remotely happy about or accepting of it, and I'm going to continue squealing about why it's a really terrible idea and why he isn't and has never been head coach material. I might even contribute to the next plane.

Adam Gase is an absolute fraud of a head coach.

Two thumbs up for this and the power structure post, bang on!
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MBGreen

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #248 on: December 12, 2019, 09:01:45 AM »
Holy excrement, are we watching the same games?

So? This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. No one is disputing his ability to watch video and draw up plays, he just has no idea how to call them at the right time. Again, he is a passing game co-ordinator and not a head coach or an OC.

Really? Tell me more about how we competed against Philly or Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm not even mentioning the Patriots because, well, we've pretty much given up any hope of competing with them, haven't we? So, yay us for fighting hard against the 0-7 Dolphins and the the 0-11 Bengals, even if we did come up short against them. Great job Adam.

You mean apart from demonstrating that he's completely incapable of calling plays to respond to the defense that's on the field, and that he doesn't understand how to adapt his playbook to the players he has rather than building a playbook that takes advantage of the roster he has?

Are you seriously saying that you're OK with the club building a roster around a head coach who has failed at every senior coaching level when it has been on him to make it happen?

History is going to show Gase to be a complete fraud. He was Peyton's video and clipboard guy, then Chicago's failed OC, then Miami's failed HC, and now it's just magically going to all work out? He is the least qualified head coach in the NFL. 31 teams are laughing at us and you're defending him out of desperate hope that it will somehow work out.

Let me turn this around. What makes you think this is going to work?

Well said and 100% accurate
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AlioTheFool

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #249 on: December 12, 2019, 10:26:16 AM »
I can't believe I was left out

Very unintentional oversight, friend. I promise that when MB, JE, and AtF light the torches to lead the charge, LJF will be assured a spot in front with us. I believe SFD and Puck might need reservations as well.
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AlioTheFool

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #250 on: December 12, 2019, 10:49:33 AM »
What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.
  • Chose not to use the highly paid elite RB on the roster against the winless team that couldn't stop the run at any point prior to that game.
  • Didn't run the ball outside even when he did choose to run, despite it being the weakest part of that defense.
  • Publicly posted a shaming fine against a guy whose career is probably over for not showing up for a rehab.
  • Has blamed lack of execution in his postgame press conferences after every loss, and has only "taken blame" for bad playcalling after wins.
  • Snaked his way into getting the GM fired that had input into his hiring. After throwing a childish fit during and immediately after the draft.
  • Spoke out about not wanting to have paid Le'Veon Bell or CJ Mosley what Maccagnan did.
  • Shows no adjustments to game plans no matter how they're (not) working.
  • Has been seen at times sitting on the bench alone during games looking at his playsheets--is this what a head coach is supposed to do?
  • Doesn't throw his own challenge flag because "he's busy doing other things," like not managing the game.
  • Let's not forget that he supposedly didn't even know what was happening when Brian Winters allowed a safety then yelled at Darnold, then threw a fit on the sideline.

Those are just some things off the top of my head. And they don't include anything that hasn't happened this season so you can't even counter with an argument about what may or may not have happened in Miami previously, of which there are loads of issues--and really gets to the core of why many of us won't give him so much as an inch.
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mj2sexay

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #251 on: December 12, 2019, 11:14:36 AM »
  • Chose not to use the highly paid elite RB on the roster against the winless team that couldn't stop the run at any point prior to that game.
  • Didn't run the ball outside even when he did choose to run, despite it being the weakest part of that defense.
  • Publicly posted a shaming fine against a guy whose career is probably over for not showing up for a rehab.
  • Has blamed lack of execution in his postgame press conferences after every loss, and has only "taken blame" for bad playcalling after wins.
  • Snaked his way into getting the GM fired that had input into his hiring. After throwing a childish fit during and immediately after the draft.
  • Spoke out about not wanting to have paid Le'Veon Bell or CJ Mosley what Maccagnan did.
  • Shows no adjustments to game plans no matter how they're (not) working.
  • Has been seen at times sitting on the bench alone during games looking at his playsheets--is this what a head coach is supposed to do?
  • Doesn't throw his own challenge flag because "he's busy doing other things," like not managing the game.
  • Let's not forget that he supposedly didn't even know what was happening when Brian Winters allowed a safety then yelled at Darnold, then threw a fit on the sideline.

Those are just some things off the top of my head. And they don't include anything that hasn't happened this season so you can't even counter with an argument about what may or may not have happened in Miami previously, of which there are loads of issues--and really gets to the core of why many of us won't give him so much as an inch.

1- Agreed. Completely fair and factual criticism.
2- See #1.
3- The posting of the fines in the team facility is a bad look, Enunwa is also 100% wrong.
4- Overblown by Manish who's clearly operating with an agenda likely because he's not getting the access he previously enjoyed. Meh. I've heard him blame himself plenty after losses.
5- The best thing he's done here IMHO aside from having Sam play on a clear upward trajectory since the Jaguars game. Mac sucked.
6- I don't think he's ever said that.
7- Fair considering the second half performances for the most part, and I think especially reared its head after the Darnold INT last Sunday.
8- Yeah, Andy Reid does it most of the time he's not talking to his quarterback.
9- C'mon, really.
10- I don't recall so I can't comment on it except to say freak Brian Winters. 

Italian Seafood

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #252 on: December 12, 2019, 11:22:47 AM »
Can't wait for that season when nothing goes wrong.
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

Miamipuck

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #253 on: December 12, 2019, 12:07:37 PM »
Can't wait for that season when nothing goes wrong.

Remember that time when you said something about Red Herrings and I asked if you knew what one actually was? Read your post as an example.
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MBGreen

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #254 on: December 12, 2019, 12:12:01 PM »
Can't wait for that season when nothing goes wrong.

Are you enjoying this season, the one where everything has gone wrong?
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