Author Topic: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?  (Read 63719 times)

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Italian Seafood

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #225 on: December 11, 2019, 04:08:05 PM »

You're missing a fundamental point here - in fact, the same one that Seafood has been.



So are you going to enlighten us with this higher wisdom that only you and MBGreen are aware of? Or are you just playing 4D chess while us dummies are down here thinking the Johnsons own the team and hired a coach we didn't want?
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

MBGreen

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #226 on: December 11, 2019, 04:12:26 PM »
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?

The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.

I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.

This is why it's infuriating.  The longer we hang onto Gase, the longer it will take to undo all his excrement.  Look at what Miami is going through, that'll be us after we fire that clown.

Seafood thinks i want to fire coaches because it's a hobby of mine or something.  I'm tired of losing. Gase brought the same tendencies he had in Miami to NY.  He's not the answer, and he still won't be the answer when the roster is healthy.  Hell, it sounds like he wants to get rid of Jamal and Leveon too....hasn't Seafood been slamming his hand on the table saying the team should be surrounding Darnold with better players? 

« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 04:14:29 PM by MBGreen »
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AlioTheFool

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #227 on: December 11, 2019, 04:17:25 PM »
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.

If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.

There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.

And you keep ignoring that he's already done the same things we're worried he's going to do again. Hell, he's already thrown fits about personnel since he's been here.

I don't want to wind up pissed off because I have to watch Jamal Adams be an elite safety for the next 8 years in Dallas. I don't want to be pissed off because Le'Veon Bell is lighting up the stat sheet back in Pittsburgh. I want those guys here, helping the Jets.

Gase has so far shown us he's not at all unlike the stories that came out--and continue to come out--of Miami. He's petulant, vindictive, puts together poor game plans, refuses to adjust or use players properly, points fingers and throws people under the bus. If you "don't think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season" then I don't see any way to convince you, but I think you're completely wrong.
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Rosetta Stoned

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #228 on: December 11, 2019, 04:18:42 PM »
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.

If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.

There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.

A-freaking-men.

Couldn't say it better myself. This is the same thing I've tried to argue for a few weeks now, but it's hard to get through all the "FIRE GASE" screaming it seems.

MBGreen

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #229 on: December 11, 2019, 04:20:11 PM »
And you keep ignoring that he's already done the same things we're worried he's going to do again. Hell, he's already thrown fits about personnel since he's been here.

I don't want to wind up pissed off because I have to watch Jamal Adams be an elite safety for the next 8 years in Dallas. I don't want to be pissed off because Le'Veon Bell is lighting up the stat sheet back in Pittsburgh. I want those guys here, helping the Jets.

Gase has so far shown us he's not at all unlike the stories that came out--and continue to come out--of Miami. He's petulant, vindictive, puts together poor game plans, refuses to adjust or use players properly, points fingers and throws people under the bus. If you "don't think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season" then I don't see any way to convince you, but I think you're completely wrong.

Bang on.
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AlioTheFool

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #230 on: December 11, 2019, 04:21:01 PM »
This is why it's infuriating.  The longer we hang onto Gase, the longer it will take to undo all his excrement.  Look at what Miami is going through, that'll be us after we fire that clown.

Seafood thinks i want to fire coaches because it's a hobby of mine or something.  I'm tired of losing. Gase brought the same tendencies he had in Miami to NY.  He's not the answer, and he still won't be the answer when the roster is healthy.  Hell, it sounds like he wants to get rid of Jamal and Leveon too....hasn't Seafood been slamming his hand on the table saying the team should be surrounding Darnold with better players?

Exactly.

As I said, I'll be angry enough to set things on fire if Gase gets his way and runs Jamal and Le'Veon out of town. Either way, he'll be gone 3 years from now. Those two should still be here for the next regime.
Teams that draft well do so no matter where they pick. Teams that draft poorly do so no matter where they pick I want my team to win games and draft well

Italian Seafood

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #231 on: December 11, 2019, 04:28:59 PM »
This is why it's infuriating.  The longer we hang onto Gase, the longer it will take to undo all his excrement.  Look at what Miami is going through, that'll be us after we fire that clown.

Seafood thinks i want to fire coaches because it's a hobby of mine or something.  I'm tired of losing. Gase brought the same tendencies he had in Miami to NY.  He's not the answer, and he still won't be the answer when the roster is healthy.  Hell, it sounds like he wants to get rid of Jamal and Leveon too....hasn't Seafood been slamming his hand on the table saying the team should be surrounding Darnold with better players? 

I'm in favor of keeping our good players, including Bell and Adams, yes. Unless Gase actually gets rid of one or both I'm not conflating one subject with the other. Again Douglas is the GM, not Gase.

We're all tired of losing. As I told you an hour ago, I like the chances of Darnold succeeding with a familiar offense more than I like the chances of the Johnsons suddenly hiring a better coach. Nobody was thrilled with getting Gase but we're here now, and to me the better way forward is making the most of a young franchise QB, rather than gambling on yet another Johnson hire.
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

MBGreen

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #232 on: December 11, 2019, 04:41:47 PM »
I'm in favor of keeping our good players, including Bell and Adams, yes. Unless Gase actually gets rid of one or both I'm not conflating one subject with the other. Again Douglas is the GM, not Gase.

We're all tired of losing. As I told you an hour ago, I like the chances of Darnold succeeding with a familiar offense more than I like the chances of the Johnsons suddenly hiring a better coach. Nobody was thrilled with getting Gase but we're here now, and to me the better way forward is making the most of a young franchise QB, rather than gambling on yet another Johnson hire.

Dude...the GM and HC freaking work together.  What the freak?!


Do you think Gase is completely oblivious and kept out of the room when Douglas or Duff were making roster decisions?  You do realize there are some coaches in the league that have full autonomy over the roster, right?  There isn't an imaginary line drawn between the 2.  They work as a team on roster decisions. 


As far as keeping Gase...what have you seen from Gase that tells you he's the perfect candidate for this job? 
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Italian Seafood

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #233 on: December 11, 2019, 04:54:25 PM »
Dude...the GM and HC freaking work together.  What the freak?!


Do you think Gase is completely oblivious and kept out of the room when Douglas or Duff were making roster decisions?  You do realize there are some coaches in the league that have full autonomy over the roster, right?  There isn't an imaginary line drawn between the 2.  They work as a team on roster decisions. 


As far as keeping Gase...what have you seen from Gase that tells you he's the perfect candidate for this job? 

When did I say he's the perfect candidate for the job? I said he's here now and Darnold is in this offense, so it may do more harm than good to change it again. Especially since there is no guarantee we'd even be changing it for the better,

The GM/coach dynamic varies from team to team and is especially odd on our team. You seem to like to pick and choose who to credit and blame based on who you don't like and what argument you want to make at the moment.
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

MBGreen

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #234 on: December 11, 2019, 05:04:15 PM »
When did I say he's the perfect candidate for the job? I said he's here now and Darnold is in this offense, so it may do more harm than good to change it again. Especially since there is no guarantee we'd even be changing it for the better

I agree that we shouldn't be changing the offense often because it's not ideal for Darnold's development.  But see, in this situation, Gase is a POS.  So, you believe keeping that around for a longer period of time is beneficial to him?  Let's go with "known trash"...that's your answer to developing our franchise QB.  Rather than risking another year to find a better fit for this team and preventing another season or 2 of cleaning up his roster mess.

Imagine being this ignorant.

Quote
You seem to like to pick and choose who to credit and blame based on who you don't like and what argument you want to make at the moment.


False
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"Hello good sir GM, may we pretty please have your throwaway centers and gords please??!?  I'll suck yo'dick!"

Italian Seafood

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #235 on: December 11, 2019, 05:16:46 PM »
I agree that we shouldn't be changing the offense often because it's not ideal for Darnold's development.  But see, in this situation, Gase is a POS.  So, you believe keeping that around for a longer period of time is beneficial to him?  Let's go with "known trash"...that's your answer to developing our franchise QB.  Rather than risking another year to find a better fit for this team and preventing another season or 2 of cleaning up his roster mess.

Imagine being this ignorant.
 

False

That's exactly what you do. You claim (as recently as today) that Rex won with Mangini's team, completely overlooking that Tannenbaum was the GM for both. You act like Rex suddenly forgot how to coach when Idzik replaced Tannenbaum, traded his best player and sent the roster spiraling downhill. Now you're worried about Gase getting rid of players when Douglas is the GM.

Regarding Gase, you're basing everything on your opinion and your predictions. Fact is he just got here, we're 5-8 with a questionable and banged up roster, and he took Miami to their only playoff game in over a decade. That's what we know for sure, what happens from here we don't know. Who is it you are so certain wants to come to a team that fires the coach after one season? And you know we can get him? What offense will be Darnold's third in three years?
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

Johnny English

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #236 on: December 11, 2019, 07:09:51 PM »
So are you going to enlighten us with this higher wisdom that only you and MBGreen are aware of? Or are you just playing 4D chess while us dummies are down here thinking the Johnsons own the team and hired a coach we didn't want?

No, it's literally the conversation we've had multiple times on here but apparently you're not paying attention.

The structure is fucked. Douglas won't fire Gase because he can't, it's not his job. GM and coach both report to the owner, who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the sole. While people who don't understand football keep making the most important football decisions, this club is fucked.

You banging on about how we would entrust people who we believe have made repeated bad decisions to make the next one is just plain freaking ignorant, because it has been discussed enough times on here. We're not just whining about replacing the excrement coach that the idiot owner hired with another excrement coach that the idiot owner likes, we're asking for structural reform of the team so that it can be run like pretty much every other team that isn't run by a proper football man. Please try and make the effort to keep up because it isn't difficult.
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Derek Smalls

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #237 on: December 11, 2019, 07:28:50 PM »
The structure is fucked. Douglas won't fire Gase because he can't, it's not his job. GM and coach both report to the owner, who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the sole. While people who don't understand football keep making the most important football decisions, this club is fucked.
Douglas has a long contract. He has power. If he wanted Gase out, he could probably make that appeal to ownership. We have no idea if Douglas wants to fire Gase. By all indications, Douglas wants to work with Gase.

Johnny English

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #238 on: December 11, 2019, 07:37:27 PM »
Douglas has a long contract. He has power. If he wanted Gase out, he could probably make that appeal to ownership. We have no idea if Douglas wants to fire Gase. By all indications, Douglas wants to work with Gase.

Sure. I'm not arguing the case for what I think will happen, I'm arguing the case for what I think needs to happen if we're going to have any chance of seeing success. I'm aware that Gase will likely be here next year, but I'm not prepared to be remotely happy about or accepting of it, and I'm going to continue squealing about why it's a really terrible idea and why he isn't and has never been head coach material. I might even contribute to the next plane.

Adam Gase is an absolute fraud of a head coach.
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loyaljetsfan

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Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
« Reply #239 on: December 11, 2019, 07:56:23 PM »
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?

The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.

I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.

I can't believe I was left out

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