Author Topic: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?  (Read 66009 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

CatoTheElder

  • Mark Gastineau
  • *********
  • Posts: 18689
Mangini was also impervious to the 2nd round curse (ie David Harris).

Kellen Clemens.

I didn’t say Mangini was great, but he had a lot more success in the draft than Rex.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 02:59:52 PM by CatoTheElder »
Quote
The New Jersey Devil keeps knocking over my trashcans at night and taking out credit cards in my name.

MBGreen

  • Indian Death Lock
  • Administrator
  • Curtis Martin
  • *****
  • Posts: 45760
  • Chest hair for miles and miles.
Kellen Clemens.

I didn’t say Mangini was great, but he had a lot more success in the draft than Rex.

Kellen Clemens is gold
Quote from: bojanglesman
"Hello good sir GM, may we pretty please have your throwaway centers and gords please??!?  I'll suck yo'dick!"

Italian Seafood

  • Al Toon
  • ********
  • Posts: 10722
1. 2008 was a Mangini year.

2. We were talking specifically about Rex’s issues with the draft but I’ll bite.

Drafting Greene was nothing to brag about.

LT, Braylon, and Holmes were partially effective signings but mostly turned out to be two season rentals that happened to coincide with those first two seasons. Braylon talked his way off of the team and Holmes tried to burn the whole place down to get out. We haven’t made the playoffs since LT’s first season here so that’s fun.

Jason Taylor was not an impact signing, just more evidence of Rex’s habit of bringing in players who either played well for him or against him but were at that point past their prime.

Bart Scott, Jim Leonhard, and Cromartie were good signings who were kept on longer than they should have been. Cromartie was incredibly frustrating because of that one productive season in Arizona that convinced the FO to re-sign him only to watch him repeat

Point is the team was in a different place when Rex was here, with different needs. The O-line had been put together, we needed skill position guys and brought them in. He needed guys who knew his defense from Baltimore and brought them in. By the second year when they brought in veterans like Holmes, LT and Taylor they were going for it, which means you're bound to slide back when those guys leave.

And again, Tannenbaum was the GM the whole time. This whole discussion is just MB's way of dodging the fact that Rex won here and took us to two AFC Championship Games. To do that you need to be a good coach, it's not been done by anyone else in our history, including Parcells, Ewbank, anyone.  But any time you mention that he starts this whole thing like Mangini did it, when Mangini was not here when we won those playoff games. Then we go on for days about each individual player--all brought in by Tannenbaum--and get into the minutia of Rex's guys vs Mangini's guys.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 03:23:25 PM by Italian Seafood »
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

CatoTheElder

  • Mark Gastineau
  • *********
  • Posts: 18689
Point is the team was in a different place when Rex was here, with different needs. The O-line had been put together, we needed skill position guys and brought them in. He needed guys who knew his defense from Baltimore and brought them in. By the second year when they brought in veterans like Holmes, LT and Taylor they were going for it, which means you're bound to slide back when those guys leave.

And again, Tannenbaum was the GM the whole time. This whole discussion is just MB's way of dodging the fact that Rex won here and took us to two AFC Championship Games. To do that you need to be a good coach, it's not been done by anyone else in our history, including Parcells, Ewbank, anyone.

Rex did well for his first two seasons. Rex never did well as a head coach again.

He and Sanchez were essentially suffering from the same issue: they came in and surprised the league, got figured out quickly, and never were able to grow beyond their initial success.

As far as the roster goes, Mangini built a lot of the infrastructure that allowed the team to succeed. Rex couldn’t build the team out long term in the draft. Even his free agent signings were less and less productive as time went on.

He got the skill players early and then he and Tannenbaum failed to build anything around Sanchez after 2011 and both of their work on ignoring the offense came back to bite them.

What really keeps this argument going is that you seem to either completely fail to realize that the team failed under Rex far more than it succeeded, or flat out ignore it.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 03:29:23 PM by CatoTheElder »
Quote
The New Jersey Devil keeps knocking over my trashcans at night and taking out credit cards in my name.

Italian Seafood

  • Al Toon
  • ********
  • Posts: 10722
Rex did well for his first two seasons. Rex never did well as a head coach again.

He and Sanchez were essentially suffering from the same issue: they came in and surprised the league, got figured out quickly, and never were able to grow beyond their initial success.

Rex had been in the league a long time before he got here, Idzik took apart his roster. Sanchez was never that good, not only didn't start anywhere else, he barely found his way onto a roster.
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

Italian Seafood

  • Al Toon
  • ********
  • Posts: 10722

What really keeps this argument going is that you seem to either completely fail to realize that the team failed under Rex far more than it succeeded, or flat out ignore it.

You added this part, I didn't see it. This is not a true statement, Rex had two winning/playoff seasons, two 8-8 and two losing seasons. That's not "far more" anything. The decline can be directly traced to firing Tannenbaum and hiring Idzik, who promptly traded our best player who Rex's whole defense was built around, got nothing back, then went 0 for 12 in the draft the following year.
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

CatoTheElder

  • Mark Gastineau
  • *********
  • Posts: 18689
Rex had been in the league a long time before he got here, Idzik took apart his roster. Sanchez was never that good, not only didn't start anywhere else, he barely found his way onto a roster.

Yea, most people who become head coaches have been in the league for longer than their head coaching tenure before they were hired at the first head coaching gig. What point did you think you were making?
Quote
The New Jersey Devil keeps knocking over my trashcans at night and taking out credit cards in my name.

CatoTheElder

  • Mark Gastineau
  • *********
  • Posts: 18689
You added this part, I didn't see it. This is not a true statement, Rex had two winning/playoff seasons, two 8-8 and two losing seasons. That's not "far more" anything. The decline can be directly traced to firing Tannenbaum and hiring Idzik, who promptly traded our best player who Rex's whole defense was built around, got nothing back, then went 0 for 12 in the draft the following year.

I don’t know how to explain this to you, but going from the AFCC to 8-8 is a decline and never making the playoffs after your first two seasons is a decline. 8-8 is not a successful season.
Quote
The New Jersey Devil keeps knocking over my trashcans at night and taking out credit cards in my name.

MBGreen

  • Indian Death Lock
  • Administrator
  • Curtis Martin
  • *****
  • Posts: 45760
  • Chest hair for miles and miles.
I don’t know how to explain this to you, but going from the AFCC to 8-8 is a decline and never making the playoffs after your first two seasons is a decline. 8-8 is not a successful season.
He doesn't get it and never will.
Quote from: bojanglesman
"Hello good sir GM, may we pretty please have your throwaway centers and gords please??!?  I'll suck yo'dick!"

CatoTheElder

  • Mark Gastineau
  • *********
  • Posts: 18689
He doesn't get it and never will.

Yeah I’ve had my fill for today.
Quote
The New Jersey Devil keeps knocking over my trashcans at night and taking out credit cards in my name.

Italian Seafood

  • Al Toon
  • ********
  • Posts: 10722
I don’t know how to explain this to you, but going from the AFCC to 8-8 is a decline and never making the playoffs after your first two seasons is a decline. 8-8 is not a successful season.

You load up on veterans and make a run, you can fall back. The next year we were 8-5 into December and fell apart at the end. It happens. Point is--again--when a coach shows you he can go to Foxboro and beat Brady/Belichick in the playoffs, he's worth keeping.

He doesn't get it and never will.

Yeah, because you "get it". They've been doing it your way ever since, it's been awesome.

Yeah I’ve had my fill for today.

Good. See ya.
So it turns out, Italian Seafood was right an everyone can go freak themselves.

MBGreen

  • Indian Death Lock
  • Administrator
  • Curtis Martin
  • *****
  • Posts: 45760
  • Chest hair for miles and miles.
Rex beat belichick once in a divisional game. Batten down the hatches folks.


Quote from: bojanglesman
"Hello good sir GM, may we pretty please have your throwaway centers and gords please??!?  I'll suck yo'dick!"

CatoTheElder

  • Mark Gastineau
  • *********
  • Posts: 18689
Rex beat belichick once in a divisional game. Batten down the hatches folks.




Which completely negates all the times he got his derriere handed to him.
Quote
The New Jersey Devil keeps knocking over my trashcans at night and taking out credit cards in my name.

MBGreen

  • Indian Death Lock
  • Administrator
  • Curtis Martin
  • *****
  • Posts: 45760
  • Chest hair for miles and miles.
I could just imagine if IS was a bills fan and he continued to suck Marv Levy's wang to this very day because he went to 4 straight super bowls despite losing them all.
Quote from: bojanglesman
"Hello good sir GM, may we pretty please have your throwaway centers and gords please??!?  I'll suck yo'dick!"

MBGreen

  • Indian Death Lock
  • Administrator
  • Curtis Martin
  • *****
  • Posts: 45760
  • Chest hair for miles and miles.
Which completely negates all the times he got his derriere handed to him.
Pretty much
Quote from: bojanglesman
"Hello good sir GM, may we pretty please have your throwaway centers and gords please??!?  I'll suck yo'dick!"

Tags: