Evaluating CBs in various systems

[Badger]

Liar, Verner is 5'10 187 and Grimes is 5'10 181. That's hardly the same size. hahaha

Verner is constipated, he'll be 181 after some Shilla.

[Heismanberg]

Liar, Verner is 5'10 187 and Grimes is 5'10 181. That's hardly the same size. hahaha

Scott Wright emailed me their dick sizes

[JFIF]

Brent Grimes is the same size as Alterraun Verner. 

It's not the fact grimes is small, it's the fact he's small *and* getting older and bound to lose some explosiveness/speed. If he was a bigger corner than maybe he could compensate some with his length/range and his strength as he keeps getting on the wrong side of 30.

[bojanglesman]

Scott Wright emailed me their dick sizes

  Grimes has bubble dick.

[Miamipuck]

It's not the fact grimes is small, it's the fact he's small *and* getting older and bound to lose some explosiveness/speed. If he was a bigger corner than maybe he could compensate some with his length/range and his strength as he keeps getting on the wrong side of 30.

He is one of the better athletes in the NFL.

[reuben]

With what little technical football knowledge I have, it seems to me that a cornerback in Rex Ryan's defensive scheme has much more pressure on him than in other systems where they have more safety support. 

With that in mind, if the Jets choose to move on from Cro or in any way look to the free agent market for a corner, could we expect to get our money's worth from an established corner who hasn't frequently played on the "island" that Rex Ryan seems to love so much? 

For example, say we dumped Cro and went for an upper tier free agent corner like Grimes from Miami who might get anywhere from $6-$8 million per year (just an example, I'm not saying we should do this).  Is it likely that he won't earn his pay because he has been falsely supported by safety help elsewhere and would not hold up when out by himself?  Is it possible that our current corners might shine elsewhere after having been thrown to the fire in Rex's scheme?

Just curious what some of the more knowledgeable people here think.  I'd hate for us to get a $6 million dud.

Good idea for a thread.

We wouldn't go after Brent Grimes.

It has less to do with getting safety help in coverage and more to do with zone vs. man. Grimes is an excellent zone cornerback, and since Rex's system is so man-intensive, his talents would be wasted here. He'd be better off in a Cover 2 scheme, like Lovie Smith coached in Chicago.  Somewhere where he can sit back, watch a play develop, and break on the ball for picks.

The flipside to this is that just like a zone corner would be ill-suited to the Jets defense, some man corners get exposed when they have to play zone. It just isn't their game. Here's a really interesting article about guys like Nnamdi Asomugha and Richard Sherman- man coverage experts (or at least used to be, in Nnamdi's case)- getting exposed when they have to play zone coverage.   

Just different skill sets.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

I shaved my mustache 2 months ago you animal rectum lover.

I call shenanigans.  Pics or it didn't happen (and no, I don't mean post a pic on the board.  Put that excrement on FB).

[Ignatius J Reilly]

Good idea for a thread.

We wouldn't go after Brent Grimes.

It has less to do with getting safety help in coverage and more to do with zone vs. man. Grimes is an excellent zone cornerback, and since Rex's system is so man-intensive, his talents would be wasted here. He'd be better off in a Cover 2 scheme, like Lovie Smith coached in Chicago.  Somewhere where he can sit back, watch a play develop, and break on the ball for picks.

The flipside to this is that just like a zone corner would be ill-suited to the Jets defense, some man corners get exposed when they have to play zone. It just isn't their game. Here's a really interesting article about guys like Nnamdi Asomugha and Richard Sherman- man coverage experts (or at least used to be, in Nnamdi's case)- getting exposed when they have to play zone coverage.   

Just different skill sets.

I'm going to love watching the Bucs stick Revis in a Tampa 2.  I don't give a excrement what Lovie is saying now.  It's either posturing to see if they can trade Revis or an outright lie.  The guy's not going to magically adjust the system for one player on the field.

[JFIF]

I'm going to love watching the Bucs stick Revis in a Tampa 2.  I don't give a excrement what Lovie is saying now.  It's either posturing to see if they can trade Revis or an outright lie.  The guy's not going to magically adjust the system for one player on the field.

Lovie's teams played more man than you think.

There's plenty of man and zone coverage variations within a single play.

[reuben]

I'm going to love watching the Bucs stick Revis in a Tampa 2.  I don't give a excrement what Lovie is saying now.  It's either posturing to see if they can trade Revis or an outright lie.  The guy's not going to magically adjust the system for one player on the field.

Agree 100 percent. And honestly, it would be foolish of Lovie Smith to do so. He'd be better off wedging Revis into an ill-fitting role in the defensive philosophy he's mastered than trying to be successful running a completely new scheme for Revis' benefit. 

[Badger]

I call shenanigans.  Pics or it didn't happen (and no, I don't mean post a pic on the board.  Put that excrement on FB).

I second these shenanigans.

[reuben]

Lovie's teams played more man than you think.

There's plenty of man and zone coverage variations within a single play.

Sure he did, and sure there are, but the fact of the matter is that his corners will play more zone than man.  He's not going to blatantly freak it up like Sheridan did, but his defense as a whole would suffer if he adjusted the scheme as much as he would need to to properly utilize Revis.   

[Ignatius J Reilly]

Lovie's teams played more man than you think.

There's plenty of man and zone coverage variations within a single play.

Yes, every team plays some man, but the system overall is a poor fit for him.  He basically said that Revis is going to keep playing as a press corner in man coverage.  I don't buy it.  He's going to be asked to play a lot of zone, like he was this year, and it'll be more of a waste of his talent.

[Heismanberg]

I don't care what scheme Smith uses as long as we get that extra third rounder. 

[Cane]

A lot of different ideas in this thread, so I'll just ramble a bit.

Rex, in my mind, always had the ability to run man intensive schemes because he's believed in two things above all, giving the safeties freedom to make plays and generating pass rush. What's weird is that the reverse of what happened in Baltimore has happened here. They had the pass rusher and safety, which evened out the corners (McAlister was great but was slowing through the four years and Samari Rolle had declined some), whereas we had the corners but not the pass rusher or safety.

Anyone who has ever coached defense knows the freedom that having man capable corners can create. Rex uses that freedom to make the most out of the front seven. Sadly, he's never been given a player that can play three downs and rush the passer. It has always been the missing piece, and trading JA turned out to hang over us for years just like trading the guy we did to get Abraham. That piece just becomes more vital now that we'll likely have at best two solid-good corners starting.

As for the Man vs Zone corner, nfl teams know what schemes other teams run, and they know how good or bad the fits will be. Rex wanted Cro because he knew he was a guy who loved the 1-1. Milliner is the same thing. If back pedaling wasn't something he excelled at, them putting him in a zone scheme would have been rough.