2019 OTA’s

[Johnny English]

I think we can all agree that the best coordinator on the opposite side of the ball from our head coaches specialty is Greg Williams.

He trumps Bates, Gailey, Sparano and Schottenheimer without question in my eyes

Can we? I wouldn't. I don't quite know where Williams' reputation comes from because he isn't the savant that some seem to think. If we take YPG as a measure (I know it has its failings) then he has coached teams to the following finishes over the last 10 years:

25th
4th
24th
14th
14th
17th
23rd
9th
14th
30th

That's hardly a ringing endorsement, is it?

[Johnny English]

The biggest problem with Rex and Bowles was that neither was a great coach. Most coaches have an area they specialize in.

The article was about how Adam Gase's offense looks with Sam Darnold. Your takeaway for some reason was that he doesnt care about the defense.

I'm fine if you want to ignore a May fluff piece but nothing in this article has anything to do with your conclusion.

That's some revisionist bullshit. Rex and Bowles were both hired because they'd done excellent jobs as DCs with their respective teams, and they were both fired because they couldn't build a team with the same level of competence. Apparently we're going to laud Gase for not even trying, and just leaving someone else to get on with the job of building the defense? That's not a head coach, it's an offensive co-ordinator.

I'm already on record as saying that the one thing I'm not worried about him ruining is Sam, because for all his other failings he knows what he's doing with QBs. I don't know why the Gase cheerleaders like Hughes are praising him for it though, he's supposed to be running the entire team.

Everything about the Jets' management structure is completely fucked up and expecting that this is somehow going to just magically work out is mental.

[dcm1602]

Can we? I wouldn't. I don't quite know where Williams' reputation comes from because he isn't the savant that some seem to think. If we take YPG as a measure (I know it has its failings) then he has coached teams to the following finishes over the last 10 years:

25th
4th
24th
14th
14th
17th
23rd
9th
14th
30th

That's hardly a ringing endorsement, is it?

I mean ypg is hardly how I'd measure a DC. I would think ppg allowed is a better indicator and balancing that by factoring in scoring margin as offensive tempo will frequently dictate scoring opportunities for both teams.

[Johnny English]

I mean ypg is hardly how I'd measure a DC. I would think ppg allowed is a better indicator and balancing that by factoring in scoring margin as offensive tempo will frequently dictate scoring opportunities for both teams.

OK. PPG then:

20th
7th
24th
14th
14th
16th
13th
23rd
31st
21st

It's even worse on that metric.

He is not and has never been a particularly good defensive co-ordinator.

[Derek Smalls]

That's some revisionist bullshit. Rex and Bowles were both hired because they'd done excellent jobs as DCs with their respective teams, and they were both fired because they couldn't build a team with the same level of competence. Apparently we're going to laud Gase for not even trying, and just leaving someone else to get on with the job of building the defense? That's not a head coach, it's an offensive co-ordinator.

I'm already on record as saying that the one thing I'm not worried about him ruining is Sam, because for all his other failings he knows what he's doing with QBs. I don't know why the Gase cheerleaders like Hughes are praising him for it though, he's supposed to be running the entire team.

Everything about the Jets' management structure is completely fucked up and expecting that this is somehow going to just magically work out is mental.

Please explain what is revisionist history. Obviously Rex and Bowles specialized in defense. Adam Gase specializes in offense. Sean Payton, Sean McVay and Andy Reid specialize in offense too.  Rex and Bowles specialized in defense. It worked for Rex until it didnt. It never really worked for Bowles.

I'm not lauding Gaee for anything. You are destroying Gase for not coaching up the defense after a fluff piece in late May about his offensive installation.

We get that you dont like Gase, but these rants in this thread dont make any sense.

You say "Gase cheerleaders." Nobody is a Gase cheerleader. None of us wanted him that much. But he is ours now, and I'm going to give him a chance. If he fails, which is more likely than not, we will move on to the next guy.

[Johnny English]

Please explain what is revisionist history. Obviously Rex and Bowles specialized in defense. Adam Gase specializes in offense. Sean Payton, Sean McVay and Andy Reid specialize in offense too.  Rex and Bowles specialized in defense. It worked for Rex until it didnt. It never really worked for Bowles.

You said, and I quote, "The biggest problem with Rex and Bowles was that neither was a great coach". That's revisionist bullshit. They were both great coaches, but as so often happens in sport the Peter Principle was once again demonstrated and we promoted them into a position of incompetence.

I'm not lauding Gaee for anything. You are destroying Gase for not coaching up the defense after a fluff piece in late May about his offensive installation.

We get that you dont like Gase, but these rants in this thread dont make any sense.

You say "Gase cheerleaders." Nobody is a Gase cheerleader. None of us wanted him that much. But he is ours now, and I'm going to give him a chance. If he fails, which is more likely than not, we will move on to the next guy.

Go back and read this thread again, and particularly the post to which I was replying. It was Connor Hughes pumping Gase's tires for doing something that isn't actually his freaking job. It's Dowell Loggains' job.

I was talking about the media specifically when I referred to cheerleaders, but I don't understand the mentality of "I didn't want him and I know he was a garbage head coach in his last job but I'm going to give him a chance because hey, maybe something magic will happen". If we'd just signed Justin Gilbert to be our starting corner you wouldn't be saying "well, I didn't want him but I'll give him a chance". I don't understand why you behave differently with an even more important part of the machine.

[Derek Smalls]

You said, and I quote, "The biggest problem with Rex and Bowles was that neither was a great coach". That's revisionist bullshit. They were both great coaches, but as so often happens in sport the Peter Principle was once again demonstrated and we promoted them into a position of incompetence.

...come on, now you're just arguing semantics. Clearly, I meant their head coaching abilities. If you want to argue they were both great head coaches, feel free. Otherwise, you're just making up an argument for the sake of it.

Go back and read this thread again, and particularly the post to which I was replying. It was Connor Hughes pumping Gase's tires for doing something that isn't actually his freaking job. It's Dowell Loggains' job.

I was talking about the media specifically when I referred to cheerleaders, but I don't understand the mentality of "I didn't want him and I know he was a garbage head coach in his last job but I'm going to give him a chance because hey, maybe something magic will happen". If we'd just signed Justin Gilbert to be our starting corner you wouldn't be saying "well, I didn't want him but I'll give him a chance". I don't understand why you behave differently with an even more important part of the machine.

Because we're fans. And because none of us really know all the answers. I'm not in the locker room. I don't like the Adam Gase hire, but he had a winning record as a head coach when his starting QB (Ryan Tannehill) was healthy, and he was 10-14 with Cutler and Osweiler. Maybe Gase is a great head coach and Miami was a terrible situation. Maybe Gase is an egomaniac who thinks he's a lot better than he is and will get fired in a year or two.

It's Adam Gase's job to run the offense WITH Dowell Loggains. Saying that it's solely Loggains' job is just ignorant. Every offensive head coach has a significant role in his offense. Payton, McVay, Reich, Reid, Arians, Gruden, Gruden, Nagy, Shanahan, etc. Those are all their offenses. Just like our offense is Gase's offense. Saying otherwise is simply wrong.

Again, the problem with Rex and Bowles wasn't that they spent too much time on the defense. You can spend a lot of time on the unit you specialize in as a head coach. You just have to be competent at the other parts of the job of being a head coach. Rex and Bowles were not competent. Hopefully, Gase is.

So far, all Gase has done as a Jets head coach is point out Mike Maccagnan's incompetence. When he starts coaching actual games, I will judge him as Jets head coach.

[SixFeetDeep]

I’ve been complaining about the power play because of the organizational dysfunction, but clearly the best thing that Gase has done is point out what an incompetent buffoon Maccagnan was. I can’t really blame him for that one.

[Derek Smalls]

I’ve been complaining about the power play because of the organizational dysfunction, but clearly the best thing that Gase has done is point out what an incompetent buffoon Maccagnan was. I can’t really blame him for that one.

That's definitely the optimistic way of looking at this. Gase got an incompetent GM fired. Hopefully, we can find a more competent GM to replace him. This upcoming GM hire is going to be huge. Hopefully, we get one of our top choices, and they're willing to work with Gase. I hate that we are hiring a GM with a coach already in place, since we saw how that worked with Idzik, but if Gase is friends with people who are widely respected in the NFL and that can do the job well, this could still work out in the end.

[dcm1602]

I’ve been complaining about the power play because of the organizational dysfunction, but clearly the best thing that Gase has done is point out what an incompetent buffoon Maccagnan was. I can’t really blame him for that one.

The opposite side of that coin is Gase has done more to point out what an incompetent buffoon Chris Johnson is than he did Mac.

[MBGreen]

That's definitely the optimistic way of looking at this. Gase got an incompetent GM fired. Hopefully, we can find a more competent GM to replace him. This upcoming GM hire is going to be huge. Hopefully, we get one of our top choices, and they're willing to work with Gase. I hate that we are hiring a GM with a coach already in place, since we saw how that worked with Idzik, but if Gase is friends with people who are widely respected in the NFL and that can do the job well, this could still work out in the end.

I didn't like the last time we hired a GM with a coach already in place. But the main objective should be to have the FO and coaching staff work as a cohesive unit.  If the Jets hire someone with a solid pedigree and Gase's stamp of approval, i can't see why it shouldn't work this time.  You're bang on with this potential hire being pivotal to our future success.

The opposite side of that coin is Gase has done more to point out what an incompetent buffoon Chris Johnson is than he did Mac.

My only gripe with the Johnsons is their stupid reporting structure.  I don't understand why the HC and GM both need to report to the owner. All that does is create a potential power struggle if disagreements are had. 

Because the Johnsons are doing it this way, it's imperative they hire a GM that works well with their HC.....or it could end in disaster. Like it did with the last 2 regimes.

[MoreCharacters]

it's pretty funny that most of this message board clowns on manish but takes his nonsense as gospel fact whenever it fits a SOJ mongo narrative

non manish reports: heimerdiner made a power play for maccagnan's job, Christopher Johnson decided he was done with it and fired them both

manish report: Adam Gase stabbed Mike Maccagnan in the back just like when this dumb wrestler did this dumb thing to this other dumb wrestler in this lame derriere WWE gif I posted on twitter

JO: I agree wholeheartedly with manish, he's smart and handsome

[Heismanberg]

freak Manish

[SixFeetDeep]

it's pretty funny that most of this message board clowns on manish but takes his nonsense as gospel fact whenever it fits a SOJ mongo narrative

non manish reports: heimerdiner made a power play for maccagnan's job, Christopher Johnson decided he was done with it and fired them both

manish report: Adam Gase stabbed Mike Maccagnan in the back just like when this dumb wrestler did this dumb thing to this other dumb wrestler in this lame derriere WWE gif I posted on twitter

JO: I agree wholeheartedly with manish, he's smart and handsome

That’s an interesting scenario you cooked up there, considering the initial reports of a rift between Macc and Gase didn’t come from Manish and he claimed they were “200% false”.

[dcm1602]

That’s an interesting scenario you cooked up there, considering the initial reports of a rift between Macc and Gase didn’t come from Manish and he claimed they were “200% false”.

Manish is a biased excrement stirrer, but at the end of the day the issues have nothing to do with him. This is the same arranged marriage excrement we did with Rex and Idzik, except Rex was a beloved fairly successes coach here. Gase was a lukewarm candidate thst just got fired elsewhere and suddenly were building our franchise around him.

No matter how you spin it Manish isn't the issue