Chris Kluwe may sue Vikings

[JFIF]

I don't know what stat you'd like to see to make the point that he's not very good. How about total yardage? He's 43rd on the list over the same 3 years in that catagory.

There isn't a whole lot of data to judge a punter by. Resulting yardage for the kicks they make is about it. He ranks lower than the total number of teams over the last three years.

He lost his job because he isn't very good, not because of his socio-political platform.

Total yardage?

Oh no, he must not be very good if he punts LESS TIMES than other punters!

[ons]

And by the same token, Chris Kluwe isn't out of work so much for his opinion as he is because he can't kick.

That is my point.

I think it's bit of a combination - the drop off between Kluwe and a potentially slightly worse punter isn't worth the PR risk that the teams feel like they're making. He'd be a starter on plenty of teams but he'd always be upgradeable.

[AlioTheFool]

And people are welcome to stop watching Duck Dynasty, just as any GM or owner is free to not hire Priefer now. That's more what this should be about.

Absolutely. I'm also not knocking Kluwe releasing this information. It's certainly not a mark against him to me. My only point is people are painting a picture (largely because he's trying to paint it that way too) that he lost his job because he's a right-to-marriage activist when the truth is likely more than he just isn't very good.

Alio,you said you read the article. did you? He was told to punt shorter because of their excrement coverage teams.

Also, NET yards he's been about middle of the pack. He was always in the middle of the league in net yardage.

The guy punted on the same team for 8 years and had similar numbers. All of a sudden they decide it's a problem?

The Vikes have a lot of problems. Also, I can say my boss told me to post on JO all day when I should be working.

[AlioTheFool]

Total yardage?

Oh no, he must not be very good if he punts LESS TIMES than other punters!

He's 42nd on total number of punts over the same period.

Anything else you want me to knock down your argument with?

Kluwe isn't good.

[JFIF]

He's 42nd on total number of punts over the same period.

Anything else you want me to knock down your argument with?

Kluwe isn't good.

You don't get this whole punting thing do you?

[AlioTheFool]

You don't get this whole punting thing do you?

Are you making the argument that Kluwe is good? Or are you trying to play semantics using the idea that since returners can return the ball so it changes the numbers just to pretend you're somehow smarter here?

The thing that matters is that Kluwe likely lost his job because he isn't a great player at a position that experiences loads of turnover, not because he's pro-gay-rights. That's it.

You just love to argue with me though. It's cool.

[Badger]

I don't even care about the angle that he can't find a job because of his views/words/actions. The other reasons are plausible enough, and he's an intelligent guy who probably didn't get concussed very much - he's going to be OK after life in the NFL.

I just found the way things unfolded and the interactions he had with the coaches and administration to be very revealing and interesting.

This is the main crux of it right here:

If there's one thing I hope to achieve from sharing this story, it's to make sure that Mike Priefer never holds a coaching position again in the NFL, and ideally never coaches at any level. (According to the Pioneer Press, he is "the only in-house candidate with a chance" at the head-coaching job.) It's inexcusable that someone would use his status as a teacher and a role model to proselytize on behalf of his own doctrine of intolerance, and I hope he never gets another opportunity to pass his example along to anyone else. I also hope that Leslie Frazier and Rick Spielman take a good look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are the people they truly profess themselves to be.

[JFIF]

1st, Kluwe didn't even play in 2013. So what 3 year period are you using?

2nd, Punters don't decide how many times they punt in a game or a year. The number of possessions and offensive drives do. A crappy offense that goes 3 and out a lot and doesn't turn the ball over is going to punt a shitload and have a lot of punt yardage. Which is why I was making fun of you for using either of those stats because they're ridiculous.

Kluwe is a middle of the road punter (in most relevant categories he's been about 15th or so). If you're a starting punter in the NFL for 8 years and on the same team without a noticeable dip in production, yes it's very likely there is some other factors in play. You don't keep a punting job 8 years if you suck.

[JFIF]

Are you making the argument that Kluwe is good? Or are you trying to play semantics using the idea that since returners can return the ball so it changes the numbers just to pretend you're somehow smarter here?

Again, you don't get it.

[AlioTheFool]

I don't even care about the angle that he can't find a job because of his views/words/actions. The other reasons are plausible enough, and he's an intelligent guy who probably didn't get concussed very much - he's going to be OK after life in the NFL.

I just found the way things unfolded and the interactions he had with the coaches and administration to be very revealing and interesting.

This is the main crux of it right here:

I definitely don't disagree. I admire that he's always been bold enough to stand up for his own personal convictions (and I don't disagree with his stances, so that's another point in his favor from me). Also, that coach is a total shitbag.

At the same time, I just think it's ridiculous that people think there won't be consequences when someone stands up like this. You can talk about where you stand on religion, politics, or social issues. That's your right. But you can't expect to do so without expecting that someone will disagree and it could affect your standing at your place of employment.

The problem with being willing to be a martyr is that it comes with the caveat that you wind up dead.

[JFIF]

At the same time, I just think it's ridiculous that people think there won't be consequences when someone stands up like this. You can talk about where you stand on religion, politics, or social issues. That's your right. But you can't expect to do so without expecting that someone will disagree and it could affect your standing at your place of employment.

The problem with being willing to be a martyr is that it comes with the caveat that you wind up dead.

....But didn't he lose his job because he was a shitty punter?

[Badger]

At the same time, I just think it's ridiculous that people think there won't be consequences when someone stands up like this. You can talk about where you stand on religion, politics, or social issues. That's your right. But you can't expect to do so without expecting that someone will disagree and it could affect your standing at your place of employment.

If you read the article, he did make an effort to conduct himself within the guidelines of team policy. And a lot of those interactions where he was told to tone it down were closed-door/private things. Clearly the team didn't want to look like they were censoring him, even though that's exactly what they wanted to do.

[AlioTheFool]

1st, Kluwe didn't even play in 2013. So what 3 year period are you using?

2nd, Punters don't decide how many times they punt in a game or a year. The number of possessions and offensive drives do. A crappy offense that goes 3 and out a lot and doesn't turn the ball over is going to punt a shitload and have a lot of punt yardage. Which is why I was making fun of you for using either of those stats because they're ridiculous.

Kluwe is a middle of the road punter (in most relevant categories he's been about 15th or so). If you're a starting punter in the NFL for 8 years and on the same team without a noticeable dip in production, yes it's very likely there is some other factors in play. You don't keep a punting job 8 years if you suck.

I wasn't aware he didn't play at all this year. As I stated in the first post (congrats on reading) I used 2011 through 2013.

I used yards per punt because it's the most "fair" statistic to judge him by. As an average, it takes into account that sometimes he'd boom one, and sometimes one will go all the way back for a TD. That's how averages work.

Yes, he's a middle of the road punter. I tried to make that clear. He almost certainly lost his job not because he's an activist (as he's trying to paint the picture) but because he's pretty replaceable. If he were kicking better would he have lost his job?

Before you point out that he "was told" to kick shorter, factor in that his average remained right around 44 y/p his whole career. Was he always told to kick like that? Or is he maybe injecting a little bit of revisionist history into his story?

[Miamipuck]

I wasn't aware he didn't play at all this year. As I stated in the first post (congrats on reading) I used 2011 through 2013.

I used yards per punt because it's the most "fair" statistic to judge him by. As an average, it takes into account that sometimes he'd boom one, and sometimes one will go all the way back for a TD. That's how averages work.

Yes, he's a middle of the road punter. I tried to make that clear. He almost certainly lost his job not because he's an activist (as he's trying to paint the picture) but because he's pretty replaceable. If he were kicking better would he have lost his job?

Before you point out that he "was told" to kick shorter, factor in that his average remained right around 44 y/p his whole career. Was he always told to kick like that? Or is he maybe injecting a little bit of revisionist history into his story?

Well he did kick in a dome so there was a factor of him being able to kick it beyond coverage. There are a few punters that are told to not out kick coverage. It's certainly a plausible concept.

[AlioTheFool]

....But didn't he lose his job because he was a shitty punter?

Reading comprehension isn't high on your priority list is it?

If you read the article, he did make an effort to conduct himself within the guidelines of team policy. And a lot of those interactions where he was told to tone it down were closed-door/private things. Clearly the team didn't want to look like they were censoring him, even though that's exactly what they wanted to do.

Absolutely. I read enough of the article to understand that.

Still, if you aren't a critical member of an organization and you say things that are controversial (and let's be honest, the topic of homosexuality in a locker room is probably #1 on that list currently) you're going to lose benefit-of-the-doubt when it comes to evaluation.

Do I think his stance on gay marriage had a part to play in his job loss? Yes. Do I think it was the primary factor? No.