Jets lose to the Dolphins 13-6

[MBGreen]

Hard Knocks showed you exactly what kind of person Rex was in the locker room.

*shudder*

[Johnny English]

Is that all?

To become a team that can compete for the playoffs i.e. 9-11 wins, yes. It won't make us good enough to win the conference, but let's take it one step at a time. I don't think two good free agents, two good draft picks and a change in coaching philosophy is a particularly big task in a single offseason given the rate of change in the modern NFL.

I think our WR corps needs an upgrade too.  Outside of Robbie Anderson and Enunwa, there isn't much. 

Enunwa is injury prone and Anderson has fumbleitis too.

We can definitely stand an upgrade in the receiving corps, although I think that Kearse proved himself a decent possession guy for us last season and I'm encouraged by the potential we have at tight end - there's a way to go but Herndon, Sterling and maybe Leggett all show potential as receivers. I'd like another outside guy who can be a threat at the top of the route tree, but again I think that a better OC will get a lot more out of the existing roster by putting them in positions to get open.

[AlioTheFool]

To become a team that can compete for the playoffs i.e. 9-11 wins, yes. It won't make us good enough to win the conference, but let's take it one step at a time. I don't think two good free agents, two good draft picks and a change in coaching philosophy is a particularly big task in a single offseason given the rate of change in the modern NFL.

We might seem close enough with a few new pieces, but if there's a regime change, it could change the needs of this team. What if the next DC wants to switch to a 4-3?

Even assuming the scheme doesn't change, good 3-4 OLBs don't grow on trees.

Also, you and I completely disagree on the state of the OL. I think we all accept that Carpenter needs to be replaced, but I think Brian Winters stinks too. I also don't believe Long is worth what he's being paid--even when he's healthy. Maybe the answer is to find a quality center, then Long can shift over to guard? If that worked out it would help a lot.

Regardless of any of that, I don't have faith in Maccagnan to get the right talent or Bowles to cultivate it.

[Johnny English]

We might seem close enough with a few new pieces, but if there's a regime change, it could change the needs of this team. What if the next DC wants to switch to a 4-3?

You might have missed the point where I've been talking over the last few weeks about Maccagnan hiring the coaching staff to suit the roster he's built.

Even assuming the scheme doesn't change, good 3-4 OLBs don't grow on trees.

No, but they do grow in college football and I'm assured that this is one of the strongest drafts for front seven talent in many years.

Also, you and I completely disagree on the state of the OL. I think we all accept that Carpenter needs to be replaced, but I think Brian Winters stinks too. I also don't believe Long is worth what he's being paid--even when he's healthy. Maybe the answer is to find a quality center, then Long can shift over to guard? If that worked out it would help a lot.

Possibly, but there's an increasing weight of evidence-based opinion that the scheme we're running up front simply doesn't suit the personnel. Regardless of their talent levels, it is the co-ordinator's job to deploy them in a manner designed to get the best out of their abilities. If we're going to throw out the co-ordinator(s), and we almost certainly are, it seems somewhat odd that we would also throw out personnel who the next guy might feel suits his system very well. Winters has been very good before.

Regardless of any of that, I don't have faith in Maccagnan to get the right talent or Bowles to cultivate it.

No, because you're in full on Chicken Little mode.

[AlioTheFool]

You might have missed the point where I've been talking over the last few weeks about Maccagnan hiring the coaching staff to suit the roster he's built.

No, but they do grow in college football and I'm assured that this is one of the strongest drafts for front seven talent in many years.

Possibly, but there's an increasing weight of evidence-based opinion that the scheme we're running up front simply doesn't suit the personnel. Regardless of their talent levels, it is the co-ordinator's job to deploy them in a manner designed to get the best out of their abilities. If we're going to throw out the co-ordinator(s), and we almost certainly are, it seems somewhat odd that we would also throw out personnel who the next guy might feel suits his system very well. Winters has been very good before.

No, because you're in full on Chicken Little mode.

I don't believe Maccagnan has built a strong roster regardless of the coaching staff. I'm not going to waste a lot of time scanning through the drafts of other organizations to verify my feeling that disputes yours that Maccagnan has as many misses as a quality GM. How is it that a team like the Steelers consistently has a deep roster? My guess is good drafting.

We agree on scheme being a problem. We disagree on Winters. I don't feel he's ever been "very good."

Anyway, I'm not in "chicken little mode." I've been saying since last year I don't like the job Maccagnan has been doing, especially in the draft. This isn't some "OMG, Darnold is in trouble, fire everybody" thing I'm suddenly panicking over. The drafts have been weak, and based on the results thus far, I don't trust him to draft better pieces going forward--regardless of the coach putting that talent to work.

Devin Smith, Lorenzo Mauldin, ArDarius Stewart, Chad Hansen, and Bryce Petty aren't able to find jobs anywhere. 32 coaches couldn't (or felt they couldn't) bring out the talent in them. We can add Hackenberg to the list as of yesterday too. The problem for the Jets isn't just coaching, it's talent evaluation as well.

[MBGreen]

I'm starting to think talent evaluation is an issue as well. Alio has a point.


Although Duff is accountable for it, i would think the bulk of the blame would fall on our scouting dept.

[Johnny English]

I don't believe Maccagnan has built a strong roster regardless of the coaching staff. I'm not going to waste a lot of time scanning through the drafts of other organizations to verify my feeling that disputes yours that Maccagnan has as many misses as a quality GM. How is it that a team like the Steelers consistently has a deep roster? My guess is good drafting.

Fine, I'll do the legwork for you. The Jets have 19 players from the last four drafts on their roster, while the Steelers have 18 players from the last four drafts on their roster. The difference is that four years ago the Steelers already had a really freaking good roster as well as a franchise quarterback.

"I don't like Maccagnan because we're not as good as the Steelers" is just plain dumb.

[AlioTheFool]

Fine, I'll do the legwork for you. The Jets have 19 players from the last four drafts on their roster, while the Steelers have 18 players from the last four drafts on their roster. The difference is that four years ago the Steelers already had a really freaking good roster as well as a franchise quarterback.

"I don't like Maccagnan because we're not as good as the Steelers" is just plain dumb.

Yeah, you're right. It's a good thing I didn't say that.

"The Steelers already had a really good roster." Oh. Really? How many GMs have they had in the last 18 years? The same guy who "already had a really good roster" was still making picks. I'd venture to say Colbert is a better GM than Mike Maccagnan, so the point stands that the Steelers are good because they consistently hit on draft picks.

The Steelers can afford to drop guys who'd make the team for the Jets because they have a deep roster. Because they hit on picks. The Jets barely look like a legitimate professional squad at times, yet they have to cut players drafted in the first three rounds because they suck (see: Mauldin, Lorenzo; Smith, Devin). I wonder how many of Pittsburgh's second and third rounders from the last 4 drafts are completely unemployed.

[Johnny English]

I wonder how many of Pittsburgh's second and third rounders from the last 4 drafts are completely unemployed.

Why do you keep wondering these things instead of actually making the effort to check? It's almost like you're pulling stuff out of your derriere until you find something that works. (The answer is 1.)

Come up with actual evidence-based arguments please, rather than "THIS IS excrement AND EVERYTHING WE DO IS excrement AND THE COACH AND THE LINE AND THE GM AND EVERYONE ELSE IS BETTER THAN US AND THE WORLD IS BURNING AND WHY MUST EVERYTHING BE SO AWFUL WE HAVE TO BURN IT ALL DOWN AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!"

[AlioTheFool]

k

[SixFeetDeep]

You might have missed the point where I've been talking over the last few weeks about Maccagnan hiring the coaching staff to suit the roster he's built.

[SixFeetDeep]

I'm starting to think talent evaluation is an issue as well. Alio has a point.


Although Duff is accountable for it, i would think the bulk of the blame would fall on our scouting dept.

That’s just passing the buck. Who is ultimately responsible for the performance of the scouting department?  If Duff isn’t making the decisions on draft day, what is his job and why do we need him here? Let’s not forget he was hired here as the Houston Texans director of College Scouting and his strength was supposed to be EVALUATING PLAYERS. From COLLEGE.

[Pope]

I put in my resume for GM of the NY Jets.

[dcm1602]

That’s just passing the buck. Who is ultimately responsible for the performance of the scouting department?  If Duff isn’t making the decisions on draft day, what is his job and why do we need him here? Let’s not forget he was hired here as the Houston Texans director of College Scouting and his strength was supposed to be EVALUATING PLAYERS. From COLLEGE.

But even if you have one of the "best" scouting and evaluating department/GM isn't there really a stupid amount of luck involved in the draft process?

Obviously the better you are at it the better your odds of drafting good players over time will be. But even great scouting departments will be subject to the luck of the draw based on where you pick, scheme fits, unforseen injuries, who is available as free agents, how effective coaches are etc etc.

I guess what I'm getting at is its extremely difficult to evaluate a GMs scouting/drafting/evaluation without a rather decent sample size to go off of. Unless they absolutely crash and burn.

After all Tanny captured lightning in a bottle for a short period of time, before this team fell on its head

[Pope]

But even if you have one of the "best" scouting and evaluating department/GM isn't there really a stupid amount of luck involved in the draft process?

Obviously the better you are at it the better your odds of drafting good players over time will be. But even great scouting departments will be subject to the luck of the draw based on where you pick, scheme fits, unforseen injuries, who is available as free agents, how effective coaches are etc etc.

I guess what I'm getting at is its extremely difficult to evaluate a GMs scouting/drafting/evaluation without a rather decent sample size to go off of. Unless they absolutely crash and burn.

After all Tanny captured lightning in a bottle for a short period of time, before this team fell on its head

I see drafting pretty similarly to fantasy football. You have a big luck factor but long term there is a lot of skill involved.

There are times where people will take your guy in round 1,2,3 etc but you need to have people on your board to take in their stead. You can go for boom/bust guys late in the draft or find guys that fill positional needs or depth later. If a guy gets injured or busted for jacking off in parking lots then yeah, it’s rotten luck but you also have to look out for the red flags.