Author Topic: The Playoff Picture  (Read 32446 times)

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Heismanberg

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #585 on: December 27, 2022, 11:31:23 AM »
OL S LB should be the priorities in that order .

Everything else is a luxury imo and should be addressed in FA or if the value on the clock is too good

No I'm not saying draft solely for need but those are the spots that need immediate upgrades and depth

Also need to A) move JFM to DT full time or B) draft a rotational DT who hopefully becomes Qs partner in crime

We're not one player away but I'd argue we have one of tbe best young cores in the league

Just gotta get the OL healthy and a couple new bodies in

Then figure out wtf they're doing g at OC and QB

We're in a position yo compete for a long time but this offseason is gonna be even more vital

We leveled up the defense to a respectable point . And we figured out if wilson is the answer here.  Just not the answer we wanted

Keep building

There are two front seven players I'd consider in the first round:

Baylor DT Siaki Ika
Clemson LB Trenton Simpson

Both of these players elevate our defense.

That said, we should focus heavily on IOL in this draft.  I think we have to patch up OT in free agency.  The interior offensive line (guard and center) group in this draft class is one of the deepest positions groups. 
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Libero_2

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #586 on: December 27, 2022, 11:36:13 AM »
OL S LB should be the priorities in that order .

Everything else is a luxury imo and should be addressed in FA or if the value on the clock is too good

No I'm not saying draft solely for need but those are the spots that need immediate upgrades and depth

Also need to A) move JFM to DT full time or B) draft a rotational DT who hopefully becomes Qs partner in crime

We're not one player away but I'd argue we have one of tbe best young cores in the league

Just gotta get the OL healthy and a couple new bodies in

Then figure out wtf they're doing g at OC and QB

We're in a position yo compete for a long time but this offseason is gonna be even more vital

We leveled up the defense to a respectable point . And we figured out if wilson is the answer here.  Just not the answer we wanted

Keep building

I’d argue WR needs to be in there ahead of LB and S. I want the defense to be “complete” but what we really need is an elite set of playmakers to help out what is almost certainly going to be sub-optimal QB play for the next couple years.

If we roll with White and/or some other stopgap QB in 2023, the best chance for them to succeed is a top end group of playmakers. Then in 2024 we either run it back with that QB assuming success, or we turn to the draft to get a young guy in here. Well as a rookie it’s likely he’s a below average player. So having an elite room of playmakers around him will help him develop, but also allow the team to compete until that kid reaches their potential.

As H said, Corey Davis cannot be counted on to be our only outside WR option aside from Wilson next year. We can argue how useful it is to cut him for $12 million in savings, when we would have to bring in another WR or not. Personally I’d keep him and draft a kid. When Davis inevitably gets hurt, or the kid overtakes him, Davis is good veteran depth. At some point you need Vets in a locker room to teach the young guys things. Davis is by all accounts a solid mentor in the room now.

I think Berrios and Mims get tossed this offseason, a new rookie comes in (rounds 1-3 is my guess) and if there isn’t a clear upgrade to Davis in FA he sticks for the last year of his deal before walking next year.
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Heismanberg

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #587 on: December 27, 2022, 11:38:34 AM »
I think Berrios and Mims get tossed this offseason

Davis and Mims should be gone.  Berrios is fine as a role player/return specialist.  LaFleur just needs to stop using him over Moore. 

Garrett Wilson
Draft Prospect/Free Agent
Elijah Moore
Braxton Berrios
Free Agent
Jeff Smith
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Libero_2

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #588 on: December 27, 2022, 11:46:36 AM »
Davis and Mims should be gone.  Berrios is fine as a role player/return specialist.  LaFleur just needs to stop using him over Moore. 

Garrett Wilson
Draft Prospect/Free Agent
Elijah Moore
Braxton Berrios
Free Agent
Jeff Smith

What has Berrios done positively this season to deserve his salary? He’s been a non factor on ST and has been a disaster on offense outside of two end arounds this season. He’s a prime candidate to get tossed to save a few dollars. Hell if you wanna combine the savings for he and Davis and reinvest that into a vet WR on the outside, I can get behind that.

Berrios hasn’t even proven himself an effective fourth WR this season.
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Heismanberg

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #589 on: December 27, 2022, 11:51:55 AM »
What has Berrios done positively this season to deserve his salary? He’s been a non factor on ST and has been a disaster on offense outside of two end arounds this season. He’s a prime candidate to get tossed to save a few dollars. Hell if you wanna combine the savings for he and Davis and reinvest that into a vet WR on the outside, I can get behind that.

Berrios hasn’t even proven himself an effective fourth WR this season.

He picks up a first down almost every other touch.  I don't think you're replacing his limited production with another free agent.

If Moore gets a break for the poor QB play and unimaginative play-calling then Berrios should too.  I'm not about creating a hole at slot/return to bring in receiver that only plays outside.  It has to be looked at like a completely different position. 

They can restructure Berrios.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2022, 11:55:11 AM by Heismanberg »
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dcm1602

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #590 on: December 27, 2022, 11:56:02 AM »
I know we have Garrett Wilson, but it appears he's missed at receiver with Denzel Mims and probably Elijah Moore too.  Maybe better QB play can resurrect Moore. 

He's also failed to upgrade the tackle position, but that's mainly due to injuries with Becton, Clark, and Mitchell.  Can't really predict that and at least he's swinging there.

Linebacker and safety have been confusing as well:  Ashtyn Davis, Hamsah, Sherwood.  I get that he's drafting for different schemes during his tenure but we haven't gotten better in those spots because of the draft.  Davis has become a really good special teams player but he was an early third round pick.  Looking back on that entire draft as a whole, it's god awful after the second round...

There's a problem with him going for unnecessarily risky moves though.

Drafting Becton was a boom or bust guy. Trading Darnold on his rookie deal was a higher risk move. Zach Wilson was again a boom or bust guy. When given high picks with no blatantly obvious candidates to draft, Douglas has excrement the bed and threw those corner stone picks in the garbage

Our 2020 draft class we essentially didn't get a single player?

You can credit him for Wilson and Gardner, but the reality is those were BPA in the top 10 at positions of major need.

Breece Hall is 1000% all on him and a fantastic pick.

Im not calling for JDs head as I tend to appreciate his philosophies. But trading Darnold for a lottery ticket was a massive risk, and now this team is really fucked. We're too young and talented to get an Elite QB prospect, so now we're going to be stuck in QB limbo unless we end up with the next Kirk Cousins
« Last Edit: December 27, 2022, 11:59:26 AM by dcm1602 »

Heismanberg

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #591 on: December 27, 2022, 11:58:59 AM »
You can credit him for Wilson and Gardner, but the reality is those were BPA in the top 10 at positions of major need.

Mekhi Becton and Zach Wilson were BPA at positions of need too.  Almost every team had Wilson as QB2 including Philly and SF (two of the best run orgs in football).  Becton getting hurt was unpredictable.  Wirfs has been hurt several times this season too.

Also, STFU about the Sam Darnold trade
« Last Edit: December 27, 2022, 12:00:49 PM by Heismanberg »
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steves850

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #592 on: December 27, 2022, 12:10:26 PM »
There's a problem with him going for unnecessarily risky moves though.

Drafting Becton was a boom or bust guy. Trading Darnold on his rookie deal was a higher risk move. Zach Wilson was again a boom or bust guy. When given high picks with no blatantly obvious candidates to draft, Douglas has excrement the bed and threw those corner stone picks in the garbage

Our 2020 draft class we essentially didn't get a single player?

You can credit him for Wilson and Gardner, but the reality is those were BPA in the top 10 at positions of major need.

Breece Hall is 1000% all on him and a fantastic pick.

Im not calling for JDs head as I tend to appreciate his philosophies. But trading Darnold for a lottery ticket was a massive risk, and now this team is really fucked. We're too young and talented to get an Elite QB prospect, so now we're going to be stuck in QB limbo unless we end up with the next Kirk Cousins

How... How are you so confidently wrong in all your posts?

QB is very simple, you keep drafting until you hit. Darnold was not the guy, you get as much value back and you try again. ZW is not the guy either, it fuckin sucks, you roll the dice again. It is unequivocally the most difficult position to nail down and this franchise has been incredibly bad at it. That goes back the last 20 years, across multiple regimes.

You absolutely credit the GM for making the pick, even if they were "BPA" and that somehow discounts the move in your 'tarded derriere mind.

You are wrong in every point you've made besides giving him "1000%" credit on picking Breece.
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Libero_2

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #593 on: December 27, 2022, 12:26:26 PM »
How... How are you so confidently wrong in all your posts?

QB is very simple, you keep drafting until you hit. Darnold was not the guy, you get as much value back and you try again. ZW is not the guy either, it fuckin sucks, you roll the dice again. It is unequivocally the most difficult position to nail down and this franchise has been incredibly bad at it. That goes back the last 20 years, across multiple regimes.

You absolutely credit the GM for making the pick, even if they were "BPA" and that somehow discounts the move in your 'tarded derriere mind.

You are wrong in every point you've made besides giving him "1000%" credit on picking Breece.

The process is what you grade / evaluate IMO.

Becton - 2 consensus top OT prospects left on the board, Becton and Wirfs. Wirfs is universally seen as a RT only (with his athleticism from the combine I have no idea why, but he was) and Becton is seen as a LT who has such incredibly unique size/athleticism gifts that he has every chance to be a HOF player. Douglas took the consensus LT with elite upside potential, who oh by the way in year one was considered a top 10 LT in football.

Darnold trade - Sam proved he wasn’t “the guy” we hoped. We traded him to a desperate panthers team getting us premium assets that we then cashed in for what appears to be an elite player in Hall and also a great rotational piece in Clemons

Zach pick - he was the most often rated #2 QB prospect by teams. I don’t know that it was unanimous, but we absolutely do know that Philly and SF wanted Wilson and if we had been willing to deal him away, would have gotten exceptional offers from both and probably several other teams.

You can’t sit here and say “Sauce and Wilson were no brainers” because they weren’t. Think about all the debates leading up to the draft, hell even OTC at 4, more than half the fan base was furious we passed on Thibideaux, not to mention the endless debates of “we don’t value CBs in this defense, and we already signed Reed.” At 10 there was no consensus WR either, how many WRs went right after Wilson? 5 in like the next 7 picks? If we had swapped with the Saints, would they have taken Olave at 10 like they did at 11? I suspect they would have.

They are only “obvious DUH” picks in hindsight because of how unbelievably impressive they have been. Just as much as what will happen heaven forbid if Breece misses time next year, the people who will say “they were wrong to pick an RB that high” that excrement is all hindsight talking.

Evaluate the process at the time. Based on what we know to be true, all those things made sound logical sense. Even if they didn’t all work out for the best for us in the end.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2022, 12:29:51 PM by Libero_2 »
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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #594 on: December 27, 2022, 12:40:50 PM »
I didn't realize Pittsburgh is still in the hunt. They need the Jets/Phins/Pats to all finish 8-9 though, plus winning their last 2 obviously.

Heismanberg

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #595 on: December 27, 2022, 12:59:37 PM »
I didn't realize Pittsburgh is still in the hunt. They need the Jets/Phins/Pats to all finish 8-9 though, plus winning their last 2 obviously.

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MexJetinBcn

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #596 on: December 27, 2022, 01:28:16 PM »
I’m sorry to break this news but MLF is not going anywhere

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #597 on: December 27, 2022, 01:35:10 PM »
I’m sorry to break this news but MLF is not going anywhere
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Heismanberg

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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #598 on: December 27, 2022, 01:36:27 PM »
I’m sorry to break this news but MLF is not going anywhere

Some changes need to be made on the offensive staff.  A veteran QB coach needs to join the staff and John Benton needs to be replaced.

A veteran QB coach can check LaFleur and Benton leaving opens the door for a different voice when it comes to the run game and pass protection.
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Re: The Playoff Picture
« Reply #599 on: December 27, 2022, 01:59:15 PM »
Some changes need to be made on the offensive staff.  A veteran QB coach needs to join the staff and John Benton needs to be replaced.

A veteran QB coach can check LaFleur and Benton leaving opens the door for a different voice when it comes to the run game and pass protection.

I know I've said it before, but we desperately need someone with experience of situational ownership. Saleh was a DC and a good one, so when Ulbrich was struggling a bit he was I'm sure able to see where the problem was and help him to resolve it. MLF doesn't have that support.

I don't care if it's a QB coach, assistant HC or offensive consultant, but let's get some old knacker with 30 years experience on the sidelines as a co-ordinator and have him be MLF's conscience. I wonder what it would take to get Kubiak out of retirement? I know he doesn't want to coach any more, but a fat wage to spend two days a week on the training ground and then sit alongside MLF on game day might be tempting.
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