I <3 NY

[Tommy]

Huh? Walmart doesn't get government subsidies. I have no idea what you're talking about. You may be confused with the fact that many of their employees use Medicaid, but that in no way means that Walmart is taxpayer subsidized. And I don't want to get into the laws of supply and demand how how it pertains to labor costs.

And so what if a CEO makes 200x more than the average employee? Besides, that's not how every business is run. Obviously companies that aren't very top-heavy and who employ hundreds of thousands of people will skew those numbers. The guy who runs Walmart and who is responsible for over 2.2 million employees absolutely deserves to make 1,000 times more than the average employee there. And why not? The company is extremely profitable. Companies that are doing poorly don't pay their CEOs ridiculous sums of money. Also keep in mind that those numbers include stock options, which are directly tied to a company's performance.

I hate it when people turn it into an "us" vs "them" argument. I know you're better than that.

[Badger]

http://joelhotaisronswanson.tumblr.com/

[AlioTheFool]

Wake up Tommy. It is "us" vs. "them."

The wealthy in America started the class war. The problem now is that those who formerly self-identified as "middle-class" no longer feel middle-class and have joined the other side.

In terms of the percentage vs income argument, people can do simple math and realize things are bullshit. If someone sees their executive making $200k, even assuming he pays 50% of his income to taxes, he's banking $100k. If that person, making say, $50k is paying 25%, he's banking $37.5k

One of those guys is living far more comfortably than the other, despite paying double the tax rate.

And before you spout the "what happened to aspiring" garbage again, 1) the idea of the American Dream being equal ground is only believed in by rich white guys, and 2) those "low totem pole" employees see the BS those executives pull to keep their jobs while they do all the "real" work.

Now factor in things like TARP. The public watched the Federal government bail out billionaires who supposedly "earned" their salaries (while driving their corporations into the ground). They also watched banks who were served by that money come and seal their front door shut.

Now people are watching the minority in Washington attempt to overturn a law that was developed by a President they voted for, written by a Congress they voted for, re-affirmed by the Supreme Court, then re-affirmed by the people who re-elected that same President.

A law which benefits far more of those people than it does those they already feel have too much.

I'm not even a fan of ACA and I hope it succeeds overwhelmingly just to be the nail in the GOP coffin.

[dcm1602]

Wake up Tommy. It is "us" vs. "them."

The wealthy in America started the class war. The problem now is that those who formerly self-identified as "middle-class" no longer feel middle-class and have joined the other side.

In terms of the percentage vs income argument, people can do simple math and realize things are bullshit. If someone sees their executive making $200k, even assuming he pays 50% of his income to taxes, he's banking $100k. If that person, making say, $50k is paying 25%, he's banking $37.5k

One of those guys is living far more comfortably than the other, despite paying double the tax rate.

And before you spout the "what happened to aspiring" garbage again, 1) the idea of the American Dream being equal ground is only believed in by rich white guys, and 2) those "low totem pole" employees see the BS those executives pull to keep their jobs while they do all the "real" work.

Now factor in things like TARP. The public watched the Federal government bail out billionaires who supposedly "earned" their salaries (while driving their corporations into the ground). They also watched banks who were served by that money come and seal their front door shut.

Now people are watching the minority in Washington attempt to overturn a law that was developed by a President they voted for, written by a Congress they voted for, re-affirmed by the Supreme Court, then re-affirmed by the people who re-elected that same President.

A law which benefits far more of those people than it does those they already feel have too much.

I'm not even a fan of ACA and I hope it succeeds overwhelmingly just to be the nail in the GOP coffin.

Except that executive making 200k probably went to school for 4, if not 6 years and worked his way up the pole. And spent 100-300k on college

And that guy making 50k probably barely graduated highschool.

Im not saying every person is capable of being mega mega rich, but the overwhelming majority of people could move up significantly in the world if they werent lazy as freak.

The biggest detriment to people being successful in this country is how lazy they are, I dont care what field or area of the work force you look at. The bulk of people are just lazy incompetent and dont give a freak. Thats why that executive is making 4 times more than them, while they are cleaning bathrooms.

Obviously there are exceptions and that rule isn't absolute, but im willing to bet more often than not thats how it goes

[Pope]

Except that executive making 200k probably went to school for 4, if not 6 years and worked his way up the pole. And spent 100-300k on college

And that guy making 50k probably barely graduated highschool.

Lol. I know a lot of people with degrees -- some with masters -- either looking for work, are employed in a non-related field for excrement wage (25-35k per year), or barely clearing 50k. And I'm talking north jersey/NYC here...

[Tommy]

Wake up Tommy. It is "us" vs. "them."

The wealthy in America started the class war. The problem now is that those who formerly self-identified as "middle-class" no longer feel middle-class and have joined the other side.

In terms of the percentage vs income argument, people can do simple math and realize things are bullshit. If someone sees their executive making $200k, even assuming he pays 50% of his income to taxes, he's banking $100k. If that person, making say, $50k is paying 25%, he's banking $37.5k

One of those guys is living far more comfortably than the other, despite paying double the tax rate.

Who are you to determine who's living comfortably or not? What do you know about that guy's situation? His mortgage? Debts? Kids in college? Etc. You know nothing. You're just doing the "Someone makes more than me, so they're obviously better off" bullshit.

Besides, what the hell do you know about what it takes to run a multi-billion dollar company? If you were in charge of a company that brings in nearly half a TRILLION dollars in revenue each year and employs over 2 million people, that you wouldn't deserve to be the highest paid CEO in the world? Come on, man. I've seen you defend NFL players for wanting to be the highest paid at their position so long as a team is willing to pay for them, so why is it so bad for CEOs to do the same?

And before you spout the "what happened to aspiring" garbage again, 1) the idea of the American Dream being equal ground is only believed in by rich white guys, and 2) those "low totem pole" employees see the BS those executives pull to keep their jobs while they do all the "real" work.

Ah, I see. You do a excrement load of work, probably more than your superiors, but they get paid more. Boo hoo for you. If you don't like it then start your own business, or try and become one of those executives. Also, every company is different. I've worked for executives who were under a excrement ton of pressure, and who worked their asses off. But of course if you're an executive and making more than the hardworking grunts, then you're obviously a piece of excrement who doesn't deserve his position. Thanks, Alio.

Now factor in things like TARP. The public watched the Federal government bail out billionaires who supposedly "earned" their salaries (while driving their corporations into the ground). They also watched banks who were served by that money come and seal their front door shut.

TARP didn't bail out the hedge fun guys, it bailed out the financial institutions that employ millions of people. Also, TARP was completely paid off PLUS interest.

Now people are watching the minority in Washington attempt to overturn a law that was developed by a President they voted for, written by a Congress they voted for, re-affirmed by the Supreme Court, then re-affirmed by the people who re-elected that same President.

A law which benefits far more of those people than it does those they already feel have too much.

This country already has socialized health care in the form of Medicare and Medicaid. I wrote this on the other board, but nearly a quarter of government spending goes right to government health care, and people are still uninsured -- to compare, Canada's federal budget allocation for healthcare as a percentage is actually almost half ours, and they have much more coverage. Those programs need to be reformed. We shouldn't just be adding new inefficient programs just because.

[/quote]

[Tommy]

Lol. I know a lot of people with degrees -- some with masters -- either looking for work, are employed in a non-related field for excrement wage (25-35k per year), or barely clearing 50k. And I'm talking north jersey/NYC here...

If anything people in this country focus too much on spending money on obtaining crazy degrees and not what they do after getting them. Look at everyone who complains about student loans. Who the freak told you that you had to pay $60k a year for tuition? Get that piece of paper at a city school, work your derriere off, don't be an idiot, and doors will open.

[Pope]

If anything people in this country focus too much on spending money on obtaining crazy degrees and not what they do after getting them. Look at everyone who complains about student loans. Who the freak told you that you had to pay $60k a year for tuition? Get that piece of paper at a city school, work your derriere off, don't be an idiot, and doors will open.

Has nothing to do with that.  There are no jobs available.

If you skip college no one is going to hire you without a degree.

If you go to college the costs are astronomical and you'll be excrement out of luck finding work because the company would rather hire the guy recently laid off having 5-10 years experience at the same pay scale as the 22 year old graduate.

Fine. The graduate takes on a low paying job in a related sector or lands another internship. Explain to me how the loans get paid on 10$/hour?

My gf has a full-time job coming out of college and 85% of her paycheck goes directly into student loans. I'm not talking Starbucks here -- office job with benefits, 401k, all that jazz. Its barely enough.

[AlioTheFool]

Except that executive making 200k probably went to school for 4, if not 6 years and worked his way up the pole. And spent 100-300k on college

And that guy making 50k probably barely graduated highschool.

Im not saying every person is capable of being mega mega rich, but the overwhelming majority of people could move up significantly in the world if they werent lazy as freak.

The biggest detriment to people being successful in this country is how lazy they are, I dont care what field or area of the work force you look at. The bulk of people are just lazy incompetent and dont give a freak. Thats why that executive is making 4 times more than them, while they are cleaning bathrooms.

Obviously there are exceptions and that rule isn't absolute, but im willing to bet more often than not thats how it goes

I find it difficult to even respond to this post without being insulting.
 
A guy making $50k "barely graduated high school"? Really?
 
As for the "overwhelming majority" being able to move up if they're not lazy, sure, I'd agree. As long they aren't Black, Latino, Asian, Indian, or female.
 
There was a pretty famous post or article (I can't recall exactly and never read it) written not too long ago about how white guys in America live their whole lives pressing the Easy button and never once realize just how easy they have it. I thought it was bullshit at the time and wrote it off as whining by those who feel needlessly marginalized. Then I started paying some attention.
 
White men in America haven't the slightest clue how easy we have it. Even moreso for those of us who aren't homosexual.
 
And using the guy cleaning toilets to compare with anyone making $50k is just utterly laughable. I work with a lot people who I'm certain don't even make $50k who have their degrees in fields that aren't "Art History" or some other ridiculous garbage. And they're not cleaning toilets.

[Badger]

Even though my state university alma mater can go freak itself, I'm grateful that I didn't have private school tuition loans breathing down my neck when I moved back to Queens.

[AlioTheFool]

Who are you to determine who's living comfortably or not? What do you know about that guy's situation? His mortgage? Debts? Kids in college? Etc. You know nothing. You're just doing the "Someone makes more than me, so they're obviously better off" bullshit.

First of all, I was explaining the position of the "average person" and whether you want to accept that this is the general feeling people have today or not, it is the general feeling. That attitude is what people vote with.

And regardless, I didn't say he was "comfortable" I said he was "more comfortable." Does the guy making $50k have less bills? Do his kids not get to go to college because he makes less? Does he have less right to own his own home?

Simple math is what I was explaining. I even stated it plainly.

Besides, what the hell do you know about what it takes to run a multi-billion dollar company? If you were in charge of a company that brings in nearly half a TRILLION dollars in revenue each year and employs over 2 million people, that you wouldn't deserve to be the highest paid CEO in the world? Come on, man. I've seen you defend NFL players for wanting to be the highest paid at their position so long as a team is willing to pay for them, so why is it so bad for CEOs to do the same?

I'm not saying a CEO shouldn't be highly paid. That's a straw-man argument.

Ah, I see. You do a excrement load of work, probably more than your superiors, but they get paid more. Boo hoo for you. If you don't like it then start your own business, or try and become one of those executives. Also, every company is different. I've worked for executives who were under a excrement ton of pressure, and who worked their asses off. But of course if you're an executive and making more than the hardworking grunts, then you're obviously a piece of excrement who doesn't deserve his position. Thanks, Alio.

If that's directed at me, you really haven't a clue about anything about me Tommy.

TARP didn't bail out the hedge fun guys, it bailed out the financial institutions that employ millions of people. Also, TARP was completely paid off PLUS interest.

TARP bailed out the institutions led by people who ran the business poorly. The same guys you're saying "worked their asses off" and are defending the salaries of. It was tax dollars spent to save bad business decisions. People made their own bad decisions buying houses they couldn't afford. Those people wound up homeless.
 
If you can't see why that might make people a little upset then I don't know how to explain it to you.

This country already has socialized health care in the form of Medicare and Medicaid. I wrote this on the other board, but nearly a quarter of government spending goes right to government health care, and people are still uninsured -- to compare, Canada's federal budget allocation for healthcare as a percentage is actually almost half ours, and they have much more coverage. Those programs need to be reformed. We shouldn't just be adding new inefficient programs just because.

Again, I'm not particularly in favor of the ACA. To begin with, it severely raised my own premiums and provided absolutely no increase in benefit. I'm 100% in favor of reform, and I was right from the start.
 
I'm not defending the ACA. I'm defending the fact that Republicans had multiple legal chances to stop it and every single one of them failed. Now they're holding the country hostage because it's all they have left.

[hawk]

Has nothing to do with that.  There are no jobs available.

If you skip college no one is going to hire you without a degree.

If you go to college the costs are astronomical and you'll be excrement out of luck finding work because the company would rather hire the guy recently laid off having 5-10 years experience at the same pay scale as the 22 year old graduate.

Fine. The graduate takes on a low paying job in a related sector or lands another internship. Explain to me how the loans get paid on 10$/hour?

My gf has a full-time job coming out of college and 85% of her paycheck goes directly into student loans. I'm not talking Starbucks here -- office job with benefits, 401k, all that jazz. Its barely enough.

Guys, the truth of it doesn't matter how much money you make.  The simple fact is that the average family can't afford to live on 2 incomes that could have been lived on in 1 income in the past.  The ability to borrow in this country is practically obsolete, and you can't live with out certain amenities.  The median household income in this nation is ~$50,000.00 per year.  So the median household netting about $2500.00 per month.  What is a modest rent/mortgage payment, or water bill, electric bill, car payment, insurance for your car (mandatory), cell phone, etc?

My parents made maybe $30,000.00 a year with my mom staying at home.  They were able to have a home, plenty of food, home phone, TV, water electric, 2 - 2 week vacations per year, a boat, ++++

Tell me where the problem is. 

For those who are going to say, boohoo to you, this situation far from applies to my circumstances.

[dcm1602]

Lol. I know a lot of people with degrees -- some with masters -- either looking for work, are employed in a non-related field for excrement wage (25-35k per year), or barely clearing 50k. And I'm talking north jersey/NYC here...

Well people who are retarded enough to spend thousands of dollars/years of their life on a degree that has absolutely no practical use are morons.

Yeah 4 years, 200k, on a liberal arts degree? Have fun with that

If youre gonna go to school, you go for something you can apply. You wanna be a lawyer be a lawyer, be a doctor do that, accountant sure.

People who go to school for the sake of going to school are just morons. And hell most college students are lazy too, im not gonna pretend that every degree takes hard work to get

[Tommy]

Has nothing to do with that.  There are no jobs available.

If you skip college no one is going to hire you without a degree.

If you go to college the costs are astronomical and you'll be excrement out of luck finding work because the company would rather hire the guy recently laid off having 5-10 years experience at the same pay scale as the 22 year old graduate.

Fine. The graduate takes on a low paying job in a related sector or lands another internship. Explain to me how the loans get paid on 10$/hour?

My gf has a full-time job coming out of college and 85% of her paycheck goes directly into student loans. I'm not talking Starbucks here -- office job with benefits, 401k, all that jazz. Its barely enough.

Well, none of that can be helped now obviously, but I hope today's students learn from the mistakes of others and not take in an absurd amount of student loan debt in the hopes that they'll be able to pay it off quickly.

[Pope]

Well people who are retarded enough to spend thousands of dollars/years of their life on a degree that has absolutely no practical use are morons.

Yeah 4 years, 200k, on a liberal arts degree? Have fun with that

If youre gonna go to school, you go for something you can apply. You wanna be a lawyer be a lawyer, be a doctor do that, accountant sure.

People who go to school for the sake of going to school are just morons. And hell most college students are lazy too, im not gonna pretend that every degree takes hard work to get

These people I'm referencing have degrees in business and science fields. I get the feeling you haven't worked in the 'real world' yet.