U.S. Politics

[Fenwyr]

This article doesn't really tell you much.

These guys might be evil, but all I read is they don't like minimum wage and unions.

The third "point"  didn't seem to be making a point. That white people watched polls? Didn't Obama have black Panthers watching polls and it got national attention?

Yes.  Obama himself had Black Panthers watching the polls.

[Tommy]

Those points are ridiculous.

#1 The Koch brothers aren't alone in wanting to see an end to minimum wage. There's a legit economic reason to be against it, one that could actually help the economy in the long run. Of course, that entirely depends on whether or not we can get illegal immigration under control.

#2 Unions are completely unnecessary in this day and age. Initially their fight was noble, but do building maintenance workers really warrant nearly $20/hour and 3 weeks vacation? Same for nearly all trades. It drives up costs, and the cost of opening new businesses. I say this as a son of two lifetime members of unions.

#3 Are they kidding us with this voter intimidation bullshit? The pollsters on the Upper East Side where I normally vote are all predominately black, and it's a predominately white neighborhood. I never heard of any "voter intimidation". But apparently white pollsters operating in minority neighborhoods is wrong, and can intimidate voters. Also, Voter ID cards should be necessary. There really has to be a better way to ensure free and fair elections in every district. It still amazes me that people can vote without any form of ID at all.

Rolling Stone is such full of excrement. There may be other reasons to hate on the Koch brothers, but they're hardly "ruining" America.

[dcm1602]

Yes.  Obama himself had Black Panthers watching the polls.

And the Koch brothers themselves personally had mostly white people sitting at polls?

[Tommy]

And the Koch brothers themselves personally had mostly white people sitting at polls?

Old white ladies are way more intimidating that black panthers.

[Fenwyr]

And the Koch brothers themselves personally had mostly white people sitting at polls?

I didn't say that comment wasn't completely ludicrous.  I was just pointing out that your assertion was equally ludicrous.

[Fenwyr]

Those points are ridiculous.

#1 The Koch brothers aren't alone in wanting to see an end to minimum wage. There's a legit economic reason to be against it, one that could actually help the economy in the long run. Of course, that entirely depends on whether or not we can get illegal immigration under control.

#2 Unions are completely unnecessary in this day and age. Initially their fight was noble, but do building maintenance workers really warrant nearly $20/hour and 3 weeks vacation? Same for nearly all trades. It drives up costs, and the cost of opening new businesses. I say this as a son of two lifetime members of unions.

#3 Are they kidding us with this voter intimidation bullshit? The pollsters on the Upper East Side where I normally vote are all predominately black, and it's a predominately white neighborhood. I never heard of any "voter intimidation". But apparently white pollsters operating in minority neighborhoods is wrong, and can intimidate voters. Also, Voter ID cards should be necessary. There really has to be a better way to ensure free and fair elections in every district. It still amazes me that people can vote without any form of ID at all.

Rolling Stone is such full of excrement. There may be other reasons to hate on the Koch brothers, but they're hardly "ruining" America.

1 - We'll just have to agree to disagree on minimum wage.  It's a legitimate fact that employers have not self policed themselves over the last 20 years.  Corporation profits have skyrocketed while wages have remained stagnant.

2 - I would happy to see unions go if we could get rid of 'right to (not) work' states.  You should not be able to fire someone without cause, or without providing some form of corrective action.  If the cause is a layoff or position elimination, severance pay should be a mandate.  There is a place between 'right to work' and unions.  Both are bad, but somewhere in between there is something we could all likely agree on.

3 - Utter nonsense.  You don't need to come up with stuff like this to slam the Koch brothers.

[dcm1602]

1 - We'll just have to agree to disagree on minimum wage.  It's a legitimate fact that employers have not self policed themselves over the last 20 years.  Corporation profits have skyrocketed while wages have remained stagnant.

2 - I would happy to see unions go if we could get rid of 'right to (not) work' states.  You should not be able to fire someone without cause, or without providing some form of corrective action.  If the cause is a layoff or position elimination, severance pay should be a mandate.  There is a place between 'right to work' and unions.  Both are bad, but somewhere in between there is something we could all likely agree on.

3 - Utter nonsense.  You don't need to come up with stuff like this to slam the Koch brothers.

If mandatory severance pay was implemented for a struggling company, they would need to lay off even more people. And cut others hours as well

Would people be better off if 10 people got laid off with severance pay instead of 3 without?

[AlioTheFool]

1 - We'll just have to agree to disagree on minimum wage.  It's a legitimate fact that employers have not self policed themselves over the last 20 years.  Corporation profits have skyrocketed while wages have remained stagnant.

2 - I would happy to see unions go if we could get rid of 'right to (not) work' states.  You should not be able to fire someone without cause, or without providing some form of corrective action.  If the cause is a layoff or position elimination, severance pay should be a mandate.  There is a place between 'right to work' and unions.  Both are bad, but somewhere in between there is something we could all likely agree on.

3 - Utter nonsense.  You don't need to come up with stuff like this to slam the Koch brothers.

I'm generally letting the article stand on its own because as I said, someone was completely unfamiliar with the Koch brothers, and I saw the article so I linked it.

The only thing I'll bother to address, because I don't feel like fighting about this stuff, is #3. I think the point of highlighting that in the article was because it shines a light on the fact that the Koch brothers have numerous entities that they fund behind the scenes that influence the government. It was simply one example of numerous ones, and IIRC the article named a few "organizations" they fund.

But as the Supreme Court showed in the Citizens United ruling: money talks. If you have more than anyone else, you get to have the loudest voice. Gah blez 'Merica!

[dcm1602]

I'm generally letting the article stand on its own because as I said, someone was completely unfamiliar with the Koch brothers, and I saw the article so I linked it.

The only thing I'll bother to address, because I don't feel like fighting about this stuff, is #3. I think the point of highlighting that in the article was because it shines a light on the fact that the Koch brothers have numerous entities that they fund behind the scenes that influence the government. It was simply one example of numerous ones, and IIRC the article named a few "organizations" they fund.

But as the Supreme Court showed in the Citizens United ruling: money talks. If you have more than anyone else, you get to have the loudest voice. Gah blez 'Merica!

I'm curious, do you and fen happen to think that George soros is equally evil?

Since I'm pretty sure he's quite similar to Kochs except on the other side of the aisle

[AlioTheFool]

I'm curious, do you and fen happen to think that George soros is equally evil?

Since I'm pretty sure he's quite similar to Kochs except on the other side of the aisle

I think anyone who uses money to purchase politics is evil.

The reason I practically begged people not to vote for Obama the first time is because he showed he was exactly like the rest of Washington when he abandoned campaign finance reform the moment it served him to do so.

Politics should not be available for purchase. Period.

[Fenwyr]

If mandatory severance pay was implemented for a struggling company, they would need to lay off even more people. And cut others hours as well

Would people be better off if 10 people got laid off with severance pay instead of 3 without?

Or...  It would require the company to put a little more thought into layoffs as the best way to increase revenue for the shareholders.

I know you really don't understand the concept of 'middle ground'.  The idea of compromise went out the window in November of 2010, I get it.

I am a left leaning moderate that has a fairly good understanding of economics.  I support unions, but would throw them out if 'right to work' states went away as well.  Employees should not have to sign away any right to recourse just to get a excrement (or even good) job.

[Fenwyr]

I think anyone who uses money to purchase politics is evil.

The reason I practically begged people not to vote for Obama the first time is because he showed he was exactly like the rest of Washington when he abandoned campaign finance reform the moment it served him to do so.

Politics should not be available for purchase. Period.

How was Obama different than anyone else that was running, other than the fact he raised his money from more individual donors than anyone pretty much ever?

If he didn't take any big money, Hillary would have been president 8 years sooner, because there is no way in hell she isn't accepting.

With that said, I am 100% in favor of gutting the campaign finance laws currently on the books.

[dcm1602]

Or...  It would require the company to put a little more thought into layoffs as the best way to increase revenue for the shareholders.

I know you really don't understand the concept of 'middle ground'.  The idea of compromise went out the window in November of 2010, I get it.

I am a left leaning moderate that has a fairly good understanding of economics.  I support unions, but would throw them out if 'right to work' states went away as well.  Employees should not have to sign away any right to recourse just to get a excrement (or even good) job.

There's not a single person on these boards who thinks you're a left leaning moderate..

And your understanding of economics is nonexistent if you think laying people off somehow increases revenue

[Johnny English]

There's not a single person on these boards who thinks you're a left leaning moderate..

Sadly there's no reasonable way of preventing you from spewing your ill informed, childlike and cuntish opinions, but I'd appreciate it if you don't go speaking for everyone else on the board.

[dcm1602]

Sadly there's no reasonable way of preventing you from spewing your ill informed, childlike and cuntish opinions, but I'd appreciate it if you don't go speaking for everyone else on the board.

The guys the most far left person on these boards by far

Him calling him self left leaning moderate, would be like me declaring myself national spelling bee champion.