Author Topic: U.S. Politics  (Read 645140 times)

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Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8010 on: December 01, 2022, 07:07:49 PM »
Strange bedfellows

Edit: I forgot to include the link

https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1598429257965113344?s=19
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 09:03:30 PM by Badger »

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8011 on: December 01, 2022, 08:36:35 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-judiciary-republicans-delete-kanye-elon-trump-tweet-rapper-prais-rcna59654

I thought embarrassing Republican tweets were supposed to be done with after Trump was booted?
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Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8012 on: December 01, 2022, 09:04:18 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-judiciary-republicans-delete-kanye-elon-trump-tweet-rapper-prais-rcna59654

I thought embarrassing Republican tweets were supposed to be done with after Trump was booted?
It's funny that it stayed up as long as it did.

Also,


Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8013 on: December 04, 2022, 10:37:47 PM »
Well now. This is slightly inconvenient.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolves/comments/zce260/desantis_lawyers_define_woke_as_belief_that_there/

Can they not ask Judge Cannon for a bit of help?
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dcm1602

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8014 on: December 05, 2022, 02:03:22 AM »
Well now. This is slightly inconvenient.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolves/comments/zce260/desantis_lawyers_define_woke_as_belief_that_there/

Can they not ask Judge Cannon for a bit of help?

Not particularly, this is your standard someone taking something out of context because internet reddit lulz

The TLDR is that this was a trial over a prosecutor who got suspended because DeSantis claimed he wasn't doing his job on matters motivated by political ideology. So during the trial they were asked to define woke and they essentially said the above quote but also included that this made them (woke people) feel that they don't have to enforce the laws for that reason (ie they suggest a woke person thinks because there's system and racial injustice, that people shouldn't get prosecuted for actual crimes they committed. In this case the guy fired was an attorney, thus this is all highly relevant)

Obviously the entire thing on DeSantis side is 10000% politically motivated as this excrement always is. But still this is your typical reddit Twitter manufactured outrage.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 02:05:08 AM by dcm1602 »

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8015 on: December 05, 2022, 10:54:27 AM »
Not particularly, this is your standard someone taking something out of context because internet reddit lulz

The TLDR is that this was a trial over a prosecutor who got suspended because DeSantis claimed he wasn't doing his job on matters motivated by political ideology. So during the trial they were asked to define woke and they essentially said the above quote but also included that this made them (woke people) feel that they don't have to enforce the laws for that reason (ie they suggest a woke person thinks because there's system and racial injustice, that people shouldn't get prosecuted for actual crimes they committed. In this case the guy fired was an attorney, thus this is all highly relevant)

Obviously the entire thing on DeSantis side is 10000% politically motivated as this excrement always is. But still this is your typical reddit Twitter manufactured outrage.

No, this is the lawyer representing a conservative position being asked to define exactly what it is that they're trying to legislate against, him doing so quite effectively, and in the process laying bare the utter cuntiness of their essential position.
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dcm1602

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8016 on: December 05, 2022, 12:34:53 PM »
No, this is the lawyer representing a conservative position being asked to define exactly what it is that they're trying to legislate against, him doing so quite effectively, and in the process laying bare the utter cuntiness of their essential position.

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/574045-in-andrew-warren-suspension-trial-gov-desantis-officials-answer-what-does-woke-mean/

There's not exactly many articles on this particular quote

Mostly just this one and some crazy feminist blogger

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8017 on: December 05, 2022, 12:54:15 PM »
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/574045-in-andrew-warren-suspension-trial-gov-desantis-officials-answer-what-does-woke-mean/

There's not exactly many articles on this particular quote

Mostly just this one and some crazy feminist blogger

I don't care who is or isn't reporting it. It's a specific quote from a specific lawyer, in court, representing the party railing against "woke".
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steves850

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8018 on: December 05, 2022, 02:08:21 PM »
The nuance of what woke means is hardly the issue. I agree that it is being used as an "LOLGOP."

Which is an exercise of futility. Wait 10 minutes and the GOP will provide more fodder.

The bigger issue is DeSantis abused his powers by suspending an attorney he disagreed with on politics.

freak DeSantis and freak the GOP.
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Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8019 on: December 05, 2022, 02:15:41 PM »
Might as well ask for a legal definition of "cool"

CatoTheElder

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8020 on: December 05, 2022, 02:18:00 PM »
Might as well ask for a legal definition of "cool"

Quote
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Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8021 on: December 05, 2022, 03:01:13 PM »
Might as well ask for a legal definition of "cool"

Except the point is that they're admitting that either they're enacting legislation to prevent people recognising and acting on "systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them", or to prevent people believing and promoting that opinion. Those are both very troublesome concepts.
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dcm1602

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8022 on: December 05, 2022, 05:32:39 PM »
Except the point is that they're admitting that either they're enacting legislation to prevent people recognising and acting on "systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them", or to prevent people believing and promoting that opinion. Those are both very troublesome concepts.

Honestly I wasn't going to comment again until you commented again.

But you literally didn't read the article.

You can make the argument that they don't believe those things exist (because the article does state as much)

But what you say is patently false.

This is literally entirely about a lawyer getting suspended because they felt certain people should not get charged with crimes because they believe in systematic injustices etc etc etc

You're literally cherry picking a piece of a quote and ignoring the entire context of it

And don't get me wrong I'm not defending the whole politics of this thing. There's a million valid arguments you can make about this whole situation. But you're choosing to harp on the wrong one
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 05:36:41 PM by dcm1602 »

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #8023 on: December 05, 2022, 06:01:05 PM »
Honestly I wasn't going to comment again until you commented again.

But you literally didn't read the article.

You can make the argument that they don't believe those things exist (because the article does state as much)

But what you say is patently false.

This is literally entirely about a lawyer getting suspended because they felt certain people should not get charged with crimes because they believe in systematic injustices etc etc etc

You're literally cherry picking a piece of a quote and ignoring the entire context of it

And don't get me wrong I'm not defending the whole politics of this thing. There's a million valid arguments you can make about this whole situation. But you're choosing to harp on the wrong one

I think you're trying to read far too much into this, and make it more complex than it is. I'm only really interested in one key fact here, which is that the official legal representative for Ron De Santis and his government was asked to define "woke", given it's a term that they have specifically used both in legislation, and in their justification for firing Warren. He define "woke" as follows:

Quote
“To me it means someone who believes that there are systemic injustices in the criminal justice system and on that basis they can decline to fully enforce and uphold the law,” Newman said.

Asked what “woke” means more generally, Newman said “it would be the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them.

We are at least agreed that this is a matter of record, yes? That he is in fact the official legal representative of De Santis, and that he did in fact say this, and that this therefore is De Santis's view and by extension that of his government?

As long as we can agree on that, then my issue is that the legislation that they have enacted in direct opposition to this view (specifically the Stop Woke Act) means that

- they do not believe that "there are systemic injustices in American society [or] the need to address them", or

- they are aware that "there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them" and they want those injustices to continue, or

- they are aware that "there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them" but it's inconvenient to do so and so they'd like people who do want to address them to shut up and stop addressing them, and they're willing to use the law to make them.

I don't know which of those it is, although I could hazard a guess, but they all seem hugely problematic.
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