Author Topic: U.S. Politics  (Read 644905 times)

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Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7605 on: June 27, 2022, 10:39:29 AM »
One of my good friends had to get an abortion last year early on in her pregnancy because tests detected potentially fatal defects in the fetus if she carried to term. I don’t know all the details, but it was one of the most heartbreaking things I’ve ever heard about. The husband, one of my best friends, was and still is traumatized by those events.

Getting an abortion for something like this is now illegal in several states. Imagine legally having to carry a baby 9 months knowing it would die. Strangely I never even once thought of the medical procedure as an “abortion”.

Sorry to hear that. I think that all right minded humans can see the absolute travesty of this ruling, and of the vicious misogyny that is considered a wholesome feature of many US legislatures. But when it comes to actually doing anything about it, I've no doubt that the US will vote for the ongoing lie of lower taxes and safety from an old man falling off his bike.
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mj2sexay

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7606 on: June 27, 2022, 11:14:34 AM »
I think freedom and bodily autonomy are nice.

Except of course when it comes to vaccine mandates.

I presume that same sex marriage will be the next thing in SCOTUS's sights. They'll dress it up as "state's rights" again I expect, which seemed curiously absent in yesterday's ruling ordering that incels, LARPers and fantasists in NY be allowed to carry their dick extensions around with them.

I love how right before that widely spread passage from Thomas, there's a literal entire page dedicated to making it crystal clear that Dobbs should have no bearing in terms of substantive due process on non-abortion cases that's gone totally ignored. Too easy for the Judd Legum's of the world to spew openly racist horseshit towards the Court's most senior Black justice.

But, just to humor the gallery, re: Obergfell. Wake me up when it's overturned due to either a total lack of, or a faulty equal protection analysis (which should've been the sole lens from which the Court viewed the case to begin with as opposed to just an out that Roberts used in his admittedly horrible analysis to align with the conservative wing), otherwise this is just faux outrage that has no basis.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 11:17:53 AM by mj2sexay »

Gorilla

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7607 on: June 27, 2022, 01:39:40 PM »
Except of course when it comes to vaccine mandates.


Except I never said that, it's a false equivalency on several of the most basic levels, etc etc...pretty much par for the indoctrinated course with these types of responses.

You seem to only know to parrot what you've been told to say and believe, which would not be your fault and I'm confident you're a good dude. But knee-jerk repeating logical fallacies is not going to sway others from using their critical thinking and empathy.
(Full disclosure:  I was raised in the Jehovah's Witness cult, so I know from decades of experience. Also full disclosure: I'm sure you and most people are better Christians and Americans than anyone in that sect)

But you do you! I wish you the best, and I'm not currently in the mood to engage regarding such a blatantly cut-and-dry issue.

Sincerely,
a happy member of the pro-freedom, pro American-citizens-health-especially-women, pro-humans, anti-Bible-dictating-my-life "gallery"

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7608 on: June 27, 2022, 01:50:47 PM »
I love how right before that widely spread passage from Thomas, there's a literal entire page dedicated to making it crystal clear that Dobbs should have no bearing in terms of substantive due process on non-abortion cases that's gone totally ignored. Too easy for the Judd Legum's of the world to spew openly racist horseshit towards the Court's most senior Black justice.

But, just to humor the gallery, re: Obergfell. Wake me up when it's overturned due to either a total lack of, or a faulty equal protection analysis (which should've been the sole lens from which the Court viewed the case to begin with as opposed to just an out that Roberts used in his admittedly horrible analysis to align with the conservative wing), otherwise this is just faux outrage that has no basis.

It's not an unreasonable approach to take me onto your specialist battleground and invite me to battle on your terms, but I'm not going to do that because quite obviously I don't have the legal education to do so. As a result, I have no idea whether what you say is correct or not.

What I will say though is that Roe v Wade is settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court, it is an important precedent of the Supreme Court, it's the law of the land, and it clearly holds that the Constitution protects a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy. Would you agree?
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MBGreen

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7609 on: June 27, 2022, 01:52:02 PM »
Except I never said that, it's a false equivalency on several of the most basic levels, etc etc...pretty much par for the indoctrinated course with these types of responses.

You seem to only know to parrot what you've been told to say and believe, which would not be your fault and I'm confident you're a good dude. But knee-jerk repeating logical fallacies is not going to sway others from using their critical thinking and empathy.
(Full disclosure:  I was raised in the Jehovah's Witness cult, so I know from decades of experience. Also full disclosure: I'm sure you and most people are better Christians and Americans than anyone in that sect)

But you do you! I wish you the best, and I'm not currently in the mood to engage regarding such a blatantly cut-and-dry issue.

Sincerely,
a happy member of the pro-freedom, pro American-citizens-health-especially-women, pro-humans, anti-Bible-dictating-my-life "gallery"

I remember this kid i went to junior high with.  He was a Jehovah's Witness too.  He was the only one who never had to stand for the national anthem in class. I told him he was a lucky bastard....but then i quickly rescinded that comment when i found out he never celebrated birthdays, Christmas or any other holidays.
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delavan

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7610 on: June 27, 2022, 02:08:47 PM »
I remember this kid i went to junior high with.  He was a Jehovah's Witness too.  He was the only one who never had to stand for the national anthem in class. I told him he was a lucky bastard....but then i quickly rescinded that comment when i found out he never celebrated birthdays, Christmas or any other holidays.
Honest question: do they have beauty pageants?....like is there a Miss Jehovah's Witness?  Anyway, decent band name..


Gorilla

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7611 on: June 27, 2022, 02:37:25 PM »
Honest question: do they have beauty pageants?....like is there a Miss Jehovah's Witness?  Anyway, decent band name..



To answer your honest question...Nope.
If a Witness girl showed up at one of their Kingdom Halls in that Hurley outfit, the "elders" would likely swoop in and have something to say to her.
JWs definitely treat women as more lowly and as borderine-property. Women have no authority whatsoever and are forbidden from any leadership roles (because BIBLE, naturally).

Wife and I have been free and out for a minute (which means "a long time" according to the kids), so who knows these days...they might have several pageants and Tinder sites. Since we've left I do know there are more than a few JW social media "influencers". All I can say for sure is they still love blood more than human life and the leadership has protected child molesters on a scale that would make Catholics shake their heads, so ummmm, there's that.

bojanglesman

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7612 on: June 27, 2022, 02:44:08 PM »
Unrelated, how is Elizabeth Hurley 57 years old?  That isn't possible.

Gorilla

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7613 on: June 27, 2022, 02:52:04 PM »
Unrelated, how is Elizabeth Hurley 57 years old?  That isn't possible.

Whaaaaatttt? That is legit surprising.

I had to wiki that myself, damn. And Julia Roberts is 54.  And Phoebe Cates is 58!  And Sloane from Ferris Bueller is 92!!!
I'm guessing it has something to do with time and entropy and me discovering grey chest hairs.

delavan

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7614 on: June 27, 2022, 03:56:19 PM »
To answer your honest question...Nope.
If a Witness girl showed up at one of their Kingdom Halls in that Hurley outfit, the "elders" would likely swoop in and have something to say to her.
JWs definitely treat women as more lowly and as borderine-property. Women have no authority whatsoever and are forbidden from any leadership roles (because BIBLE, naturally).

Wife and I have been free and out for a minute (which means "a long time" according to the kids), so who knows these days...they might have several pageants and Tinder sites. Since we've left I do know there are more than a few JW social media "influencers". All I can say for sure is they still love blood more than human life and the leadership has protected child molesters on a scale that would make Catholics shake their heads, so ummmm, there's that.
Thx for the honest answer.  Curious, I did a quick search and came up with https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101990007

As for Catholics, here's one you'll like:

Q: how did Cardinal Spellman die?
A: someone slipped him a poison alterboy.

Fun for all denominations:

Q: what's the difference between a circumcision and a crucifixion?
A:  with a crucifixion they throw out the whole Jew

u.s. politics: separation of church and state (establishment clause & free exercise clause--> 1st amend)

delavan

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7615 on: June 27, 2022, 04:05:46 PM »
A special interest absurdity abated....for now...     from the folks that howled 'voter suppression!"     

https://abc7ny.com/judge-ralph-porzio-non-citizens-voting-staten-island-new-york-city/11998587/

reuben

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7616 on: June 27, 2022, 04:53:04 PM »
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1541201416949211136

Video of Rudy's "assault." 

Quote
“Yesterday, I was in Staten Island getting ready to campaign for my son. I hadn’t started yet,” Giuliani said during press conference on Facebook. “I went to the men’s room, walked back with a group of friends and all of a sudden, without any warning, was hit very, very hard on the back. To such an extent that it knocked me back about two steps. People around me helped me. People around me secured the person who did it. The videotape that you see is probably a little deceptive, it just shows a hand on my back.”

“The police observed the whole videotape, and charged him with second degree assault,” Giuliani said. He was irate, having just heard the charge was downgraded to a misdemeanor.

“I could have fallen down … Elderly people die most often from falling down,” Giuliani said.

What an absolute clown.  Good thing there was video. 

mj2sexay

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7617 on: June 27, 2022, 05:40:45 PM »
Except I never said that, it's a false equivalency on several of the most basic levels, etc etc...pretty much par for the indoctrinated course with these types of responses.

You seem to only know to parrot what you've been told to say and believe

1. Fair enough if you've never said it.

2. It's not a false equivalency when the common rallying cry is My BoDY mY cHoIcE. People were literally castigated and socially/economically sidelined for wanting autonomy over their decision not to inject a foreign substance into their body that was manufactured by pharmaceutical companies that have spent decades lying to their consumers and also ensured protection via not being able to be sued in case there were catastrophic side effects.

3. The level of projection in terms of "parrot" is what it is, but it also has no basis.

I do appreciate the kind words otherwise, sincerely.

Anyway, since Del's on a roll,

q: what's the difference between a priest and a rabbi?

a: a rabbi cuts it off and a priest sucks it off.

It's not an unreasonable approach to take me onto your specialist battleground and invite me to battle on your terms, but I'm not going to do that because quite obviously I don't have the legal education to do so. As a result, I have no idea whether what you say is correct or not.

What I will say though is that Roe v Wade is settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court, it is an important precedent of the Supreme Court, it's the law of the land, and it clearly holds that the Constitution protects a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy. Would you agree?

With the exception of being important in terms of precedent, all of this is absolutely true.

Settled precedent can be wrong. Example; I'd say a solid 80 to 90 percent of this board wishes DC vs. Heller was overturned and would have no issue with settled precedent being upended. Korematsu was settled precedent, Brown v. Board of Ed, etc. With that in mind, I do find the kvetching about precedent to be just that. No one has any issue overturning precedent they don't agree, no matter what they say in their confirmation hearings. Using guns as an example again, you'd have to be a freaking moron on the right to ever think Sotomayor or Breyer would ever not backflip at the chance to overturn Heller no matter what they said.

About ten or eleven years ago, Democrats had a filibuster proof supermajority in the Senate and never codified via legislation a woman's right to an abortion. My guess is that's probably because they knew the battle between totally satiating the AbOrTiOn On DeMaNd AnD wItHoUt aPoLoGy crowd and remaining in the good graces of the American electorate would've been impossible. Plenty of people (myself included, and for that matter most of the European nations that the left wants to follow on issues like guns, taxes, social safety net, etc.) believe in a temporal element towards the procedure in cases where it's elective i.e. where mom's health isn't in question or the child wasn't a product of rape or incest. As an example, the legislation set to go forth in Mississippi and Missouri is insane in terms of their respective restrictiveness. 

I feel the same way about Obergefell quite honestly, but also seriously would struggle (if/when this ever happened which I don't think it will), with a Supreme Court that would provide the logic that a proscription on same sex marriage would not be violative of the equal protection clause and would survive a strict scrutiny test because the state's compelling interest in preserving the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman overpowers the deprivation of same sex couples from the practice (and all of the economic and social benefits that come with being married), especially in a country with a divorce rate over 50%. So if that ever happens, please feel free to refer back to this comment and feel free to call me a hypocrite if I ever try to justify it (I won't).

Sorry to disappoint those that expect me to just "parrot" the common pro-life talking points here, but I think a fair reading of my post history would show where I've always landed on this. Admittedly I do find some of the pro-choice arguments that rely on identity politics ("no uterus no opinion") to be freaking absurd, and you'd think a lesson would be learned considering one of the 6 signing off on this majority opinion in fact has a uterus.

What I think is going to be very interesting is whether or not States that try to ban its citizens from going out of State to undergo what is absolutely a medical procedure find themselves violative of either the interstate or dormant commerce clause. I would say they are.

I am going to hold the "company line" here to close it out and say that Sotomayor's dissent in the football coach prayer case was completely ridiculous and would've never been written if say, a football coach in a heavily Muslim area (say the suburbs of Michigan) wanted to lead a post-game prayer of the Islamic faith. And to that end, I hope someone does, just to put to bed some of the hypotheticals I've been seeing from the worst ends of twitter today.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 05:47:20 PM by mj2sexay »

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7618 on: June 27, 2022, 05:49:12 PM »
With the exception of being important in terms of precedent, all of this is absolutely true.

Settled precedent can be wrong. Example; I'd say a solid 80 to 90 percent of this board wishes DC vs. Heller was overturned and would have no issue with settled precedent being upended. Korematsu was settled precedent, Brown v. Board of Ed, etc. With that in mind, I do find the kvetching about precedent to be just that. No one has any issue overturning precedent they don't agree, no matter what they say in their confirmation hearings. Using guns as an example again, you'd have to be a freaking moron on the right to ever think Sotomayor or Breyer would ever not backflip at the chance to overturn Heller no matter what they said.

About ten or eleven years ago, Democrats had a filibuster proof supermajority in the Senate and never codified via legislation a woman's right to an abortion. My guess is that's probably because they knew the battle between totally satiating the AbOrTiOn On DeMaNd AnD wItHoUt aPoLoGy crowd and remaining in the good graces of the American electorate would've been impossible. Plenty of people (myself included, and for that matter most of the European nations that the left wants to follow on issues like guns, taxes, social safety net, etc.) believe in a temporal element towards the procedure in cases where it's elective i.e. where mom's health isn't in question or the child wasn't a product of rape or incest. As an example, the legislation set to go forth in Mississippi and Missouri is insane in terms of their respective restrictiveness. 

I feel the same way about Obergefell quite honestly, but also seriously would struggle (if/when this ever happened which I don't think it will), with a Supreme Court that would provide the logic that a proscription on same sex marriage would survive a strict scrutiny test because the state's compelling interest in preserving the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman overpowers the deprivation of same sex couples from the practice (and all of the economic and social benefits that come with being married), especially in a country with a divorce rate over 50%. So if that ever happens, please feel free to refer back to this comment and feel free to call me a hypocrite if I ever try to justify it (I won't).

Sorry to disappoint those that expect me to just "parrot" the common pro-life talking points here, but I think a fair reading of my post history would show where I've always landed on this. Admittedly I do find some of the pro-choice arguments that rely on identity politics ("no uterus no opinion") to be freaking absurd, and you'd think a lesson would be learned considering one of the 6 signing off on this in fact has a uterus.

What I think is going to be very interesting is whether or not States that try to ban its citizens from going out of State to undergo what is absolutely a medical procedure find themselves violative of either the interstate or dormant commerce clause. I would say they are.

I am going to hold the "company line" here to close it out and say that Sotomayor's dissent in the football coach prayer case was completely ridiculous and would've never been written if say, a football coach in a heavily Muslim area (say the suburbs of Michigan) wanted to lead a post-game prayer of the Islamic faith. And to that end, I hope someone does, just to put to bed some of the hypotheticals I've been seeing from the worst ends of twitter today.

It neither disappoints me nor surprises me that that's your position on abortion, because I think that your position on many things is far from unreasonable. I was more interested in where you stand on those Conservative members of the Supreme Court of whom you were pretty supportive and who said all of those things that you agree with during their appointments, and have now clearly demonstrated that they were lying to Congress in order to enact a very specific political agenda.
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Gorilla

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #7619 on: June 27, 2022, 05:53:13 PM »
Thx for the honest answer.  Curious, I did a quick search and came up with https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101990007

As for Catholics, here's one you'll like:

Q: how did Cardinal Spellman die?
A: someone slipped him a poison alterboy.

Fun for all denominations:

Q: what's the difference between a circumcision and a crucifixion?
A:  with a crucifixion they throw out the whole Jew

u.s. politics: separation of church and state (establishment clause & free exercise clause--> 1st amend)

Haha, dude I am very impressed at the research!  FTR I'd enter a Catholic church or a synagogue or a mosque before I ever set foot in another Kingdom Hall.

wol...jw....org is the only source of religious/life information approved by Witnesses . The "wol" stands for Watchtower Online Library.  It's the huge library of past Watchtowers and other various Witness books (there's a ton, as they started as a publishing company). Imagine the reverence Scientologists have for Hubbard's rants and writings...now multiply that by a hundred and you have Witnesses and Watchtower publications.

The earliest publications (and again, there's a ton) contain bat-freaking-a-monkey-excrement-insane information and prophecies. So the group only makes earlier stuff available to higher-ranking, more-indoctrinated members. I doubt there's an amazing Jesus-approved reason that all of of my uncles and aunts and MY OWN JW FATHER never want to speak to me or meet my awesome toddler son since I officially left.

(Not trying to turn this thread into my therapy session, my apologies haha....but please try not to join cults, guys)

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