U.S. Politics

[Badger]

Working class people against it are merely ignorant.

For emphasis

[dcm1602]

I'm a working stiff. I never went to university and I have paid a freak ton of tax over the years because I got lucky in my career, and I'm all in on student loan forgiveness (this isn't just a US issue). I will happily see my taxes go to ensure that kids coming out of university today do so unencumbered by the cost of their education.

It's draft night, so I don't particularly want to go into cranky debate mode.

But how would one say that student loans should get bailed out by the government.

When things like social security, and pension funds aren't getting bailed out? Or even Medicare for all?

To me all of those sound like far more righteous entitlement causes than to subsidize kids loans. And the response of "Well I think we should do all of them" is just nonsense. Sure you may mean it, but the reality is the government doesn't do everything at once nor prioritize everything equally.

I think the student loan bailout thing just earns far more political points and lifetime followers than making people whole who completely got fucked by pensions they worked all their lives for

[Johnny English]

But how would one say that student loans should get bailed out by the government.

You're looking at it wrong. It's not "bailing out", it's fixing a wrong that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Don't look at it as how many kids went through school and are now drowning in debt as a result, look at it as how many kids could have gone to school and done so much more with their lives but didn't because they were terrified of drowning in debt. Think of how much unfulfilled potential exists. We can't fix that now, but we can fix the ones still struggling and send the message to the next generation that they can be the best version of themselves without fear of being crippled for life.

It's draft night, so I don't particularly want to go into cranky debate mode.

You're right, let's get back to making young men overnight millionaires for their ability to catch and throw footballs. Go ahead and draw your own lines there.

[dcm1602]

You're looking at it wrong. It's not "bailing out", it's fixing a wrong that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Don't look at it as how many kids went through school and are now drowning in debt as a result, look at it as how many kids could have gone to school and done so much more with their lives but didn't because they were terrified of drowning in debt. Think of how much unfulfilled potential exists. We can't fix that now, but we can fix the ones still struggling and send the message to the next generation that they can be the best version of themselves without fear of being crippled for life.

You're right, let's get back to making young men overnight millionaires for their ability to catch and throw footballs. Go ahead and draw your own lines there.

I guess I wasn't really trying to debate whether or not student loans should get subsidized or whatever you want to call it. Because I don't want to go into a right leaning ideology vs left leaning ideology debate

My question was how do you prioritize this vs other major (and in my opinion more important) entitlement spending?

I think like 50% of Americans 65 and over have less than 10,000 saved for retirement.

People who worked all their lives for pensions that now have no money, and won't get excrement they've worked 20 30 40 years for.

Healthcare is obvious

There was the previous mortgage crisis and presumably a new one about to loom with all the housing debt related to covid.

Is student loans a bigger priority than all of them?

[dcm1602]

And in addition to my above question. If the concern is wasted potential and people not wanting to go to college because of predatory loans.

Why not just focus on making two year community college free for all Americans? Politically this is much more feasible to do, and this will focus on the future rather than the past. Plus this would encourage more people to go to school and unlock some of their potential.

To me, the impression I get that is that this is more about the left jerking off their constituents rather than helping people out.

I'm not saying that student loan forgiveness wouldn't help people, but it doesn't seem to be nearly as helpful as many other potential entitlements.

[ons]

Student loan forgiveness helps a generation of current adults to contribute to the economy in ways that have been inaccessible based on their debt load. It helps to build the middle class in a real, tangible way, specifically targeting adults who come from families with relatively less capital. Coming from someone who worked every semester of college and graduated with no debt, it is a relatively quick thing the government can do to help improve people's lives and will allow for more economic risk taking and consumer spending.

[delavan]

https://twitter.com/wiczipedia/status/1362153807879303171 

[CatoTheElder]

Coal millionaire hates idea of EV tax credits

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/04/west-virginas-manchin-stands-in-way-of-ludicrous-ev-tax-credits/

[dcm1602]

Coal millionaire hates idea of EV tax credits

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/04/west-virginas-manchin-stands-in-way-of-ludicrous-ev-tax-credits/

I always find it questionable or even exaggerated. When people just assume this elderly rich dude is making these decisions or views because of his personal business.

There's obviously conflict in interest, but I somehow doubt a year whose nearly 80 worth 10 million is doing this out of greed.

[CatoTheElder]

K

[bojanglesman]

Coal millionaire hates idea of EV tax credits

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/04/west-virginas-manchin-stands-in-way-of-ludicrous-ev-tax-credits/

Why does no one ask him directly if his huge financial ties to the coal industry are influencing his refusal to help phase out that industry because of the massive pollution that comes along with it?  I guess if they did, he'd just say it was in the best interest of his constituents who stand to benefit from it.

He's not wrong about the EV credits in the current situation, being that it doesn't make sense to subsidize an EV car when the demand is already through the roof.  It won't always be this way though, once they are able to ramp up supply.  I don't have a problem with the EV credits, but I think they should be a little smaller and not phase out for certain cars once they sell a certain #.

[delavan]

He's not wrong about the EV credits in the current situation, being that it doesn't make sense to subsidize an EV car when the demand is already through the roof. It won't always be this way though, once they are able to ramp up supply.  I don't have a problem with the EV credits, but I think they should be a little smaller and not phase out for certain cars once they sell a certain #.

The 'demand' issue's a fair point.  Back in the 90's fledgling green industries were given preferential allowances, e.g. the federal government in their procurement practices required purchased paper to contain a certain minimum percentage of recycled content.  Locally this came in the form of 'premium price' allowances above the current market price for items that contained a certain percentage content of either post-industrial and/or post-consumer content.  In short help the green baby to crawl up until it can walk on its own.

As to providing student loan relief, all well and good but in the haste to demand "total & absolute relief now!" some underlying causes keep getting ignored: the tuition hikes that outpaced inflation on the institutional end and the usury rates that loanees are unfairly subjected to.  Reduce the tuition hikes ('now!') that institutions used guaranteed loans to take advantage of.  As for the loans themselves, restructure them so that loanees are not buried under them ad infinitum. Fix the SYSTEM.  Or...fvck it....make college tuition-free...the institutional sector will love that since they'll continue getting their bloated tuition dollars - why should they care where it comes from?   Gov't for all the people?   

         'look for the union label..'



"Eh Bluey, who ARRRE these people?...do we know them?"
 "Pay them no mind dear.....they're merely ignorant."

smh....for emphasis

[CatoTheElder]

Why does no one ask him directly if his huge financial ties to the coal industry are influencing his refusal to help phase out that industry because of the massive pollution that comes along with it?  I guess if they did, he'd just say it was in the best interest of his constituents who stand to benefit from it.

He's not wrong about the EV credits in the current situation, being that it doesn't make sense to subsidize an EV car when the demand is already through the roof.  It won't always be this way though, once they are able to ramp up supply.  I don't have a problem with the EV credits, but I think they should be a little smaller and not phase out for certain cars once they sell a certain #.

The guy has opposed every green policy that's been put forth. You don't need to dig too deep to figure this one out.

[bojanglesman]

The guy has opposed every green policy that's been put forth. You don't need to dig too deep to figure this one out.

But it would be worth it for someone to make him answer the direct question.

[CatoTheElder]

But it would be worth it for someone to make him answer the direct question.

Only if you think he would give a direct answer rather than threaten someone for asking the question.