U.S. Politics

[delavan]

https://www.king5.com/video/news/local/young-girls-lemonade-stand-in-everett-shut-down-while-nearby-homeless-camp-remains/281-65288f26-77fd-4197-ba30-9e9d59a5babe

[Badger]

Huge proxy war between the good dems and bad dems in Ohio's 11th congressional district today.

[delavan]

Brown v. Turner (the 'leftier' Turner's outspent Brown by more than 2-to-1.

[dcm1602]

Highly concerning that democrats are looking into changing the rules of retirements to steal money from people's IRAs to pay for their latest welfare/infrastructure bill

[mj2sexay]

Highly concerning that democrats are looking into changing the rules of retirements to steal money from people's IRAs to pay for their latest welfare/infrastructure bill

What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too

[bojanglesman]

Highly concerning that democrats are looking into changing the rules of retirements to steal money from people's IRAs to pay for their latest welfare/infrastructure bill

I missed this.  Are you talking about them considering going after mega-IRA's?

[dcm1602]

I missed this.  Are you talking about them considering going after mega-IRA's?

Yes

Their definition of mega IRAs is highly concerning

If you're talking about loopholes like Peter Thiel I think that's completely understandable and reasonable

But them calling IRAs with 5 million dollars in it Mega IRAs is insane and an extremely dangerous slippery slope

I think it's blatant robbery for them to change the rules of IRAs after the fact.

If they want to change something change it going forwards on future contributions. But you can't change the rules on already accounted for money

[bojanglesman]

Yes

Their definition of mega IRAs is highly concerning

If you're talking about loopholes like Peter Thiel I think that's completely understandable and reasonable

But them calling IRAs with 5 million dollars in it Mega IRAs is insane and an extremely dangerous slippery slope

I think it's blatant robbery for them to change the rules of IRAs after the fact.

If they want to change something change it going forwards on future contributions. But you can't change the rules on already accounted for money

I can agree about slippery slopes, but do you know how hard it would be for one person to get $5 million in a traditional or ROTH IRA the way most people do for retirement?  If you maxed it out for 30 years and earned 10% interest you'd have about $1-$2 million.  The only people with over $5 million in a traditional or ROTH IRA would be either someone that worked for 40-50 years, started saving when they were very young, and earned an excellent interest rate....or someone who found a loophole like Thiel.  I can't imagine there are shitloads of people with over $5 million in a typical IRA for retirement.   They should raise that number some though to account for that. If you talk about 401Ks, different story.

2 IRAs that may matter more are Inherited IRAs and Non-deductible IRAs.  Non-deductibles, even though they are taxed initially, don't pay tax on earnings until they are withdrawn, so they could get large in value.  You could have a large inherited IRA if you still fall under the old rules before 2020 where you can take automatic distributions based of your expected lifespan and you are pretty young.  Not that common I don't think.

I think you need to find a way not to punish people that somehow found a way to do it the right way and get large sums in there, but I don't think it would frankly be that much money they'd collect.  I don't think it's a good idea to change the rules after the fact, I agree.  But change them going forward.

EDIT: Looked it up.  There are about 28,000 people with IRAs over $5 million.  More than I expected, but I wonder how many of those are people who saved it the way the system was intended (by working hard and saving as they go)? 

[Johnny English]

dcm is just regretting his decision to funnel all of his money he's ever made into retirement funds instead of going out and spending it on cold booze and hot women like we told him to, and justifying his error by being upset that Commie Joe is going to spend it all on horse drawn carriages for poor people.

[dcm1602]

I can agree about slippery slopes, but do you know how hard it would be for one person to get $5 million in a traditional or ROTH IRA the way most people do for retirement?  If you maxed it out for 30 years and earned 10% interest you'd have about $1-$2 million.  The only people with over $5 million in a traditional or ROTH IRA would be either someone that worked for 40-50 years, started saving when they were very young, and earned an excellent interest rate....or someone who found a loophole like Thiel.  I can't imagine there are shitloads of people with over $5 million in a typical IRA for retirement.   They should raise that number some though to account for that. If you talk about 401Ks, different story.

2 IRAs that may matter more are Inherited IRAs and Non-deductible IRAs.  Non-deductibles, even though they are taxed initially, don't pay tax on earnings until they are withdrawn, so they could get large in value.  You could have a large inherited IRA if you still fall under the old rules before 2020 where you can take automatic distributions based of your expected lifespan and you are pretty young.  Not that common I don't think.

I think you need to find a way not to punish people that somehow found a way to do it the right way and get large sums in there, but I don't think it would frankly be that much money they'd collect.  I don't think it's a good idea to change the rules after the fact, I agree.  But change them going forward.

EDIT: Looked it up.  There are about 28,000 people with IRAs over $5 million.  More than I expected, but I wonder how many of those are people who saved it the way the system was intended (by working hard and saving as they go)? 

If we're talking purely IRAs then yes the biggest concern is just the slippery slope. But 401ks is where that slippery slope becomes a huge problem.

The United States has abysmal rates of saving for retirement and personal financial investing. To suddenly start stealing retirement money is a move in a really wrong direction.

No solid numbers were released on these proposals, but democrats are saying it could cut out a significant chunk of the 3.5 trillion in proposed deficit spending.  And I don't see how you can be more than a drop in the bucket without raping other retirement money

[dcm1602]

dcm is just regretting his decision to funnel all of his money he's ever made into retirement funds instead of going out and spending it on cold booze and hot women like we told him to, and justifying his error by being upset that Commie Joe is going to spend it all on horse drawn carriages for poor people.

Don't you worry ill be coming back to quote this post in 2062 with an I told you so that it was all worth it!

[CatoTheElder]

Don't you worry ill be coming back to quote this post in 2062 with an I told you so that it was all worth it!

You're going to have a heart attack on a treadmill in 2038.

[Badger]

Getting big "Dems want to raise your taxes to 90%" vibes from dcm's concern

[bojanglesman]

If we're talking purely IRAs then yes the biggest concern is just the slippery slope. But 401ks is where that slippery slope becomes a huge problem.

The United States has abysmal rates of saving for retirement and personal financial investing. To suddenly start stealing retirement money is a move in a really wrong direction.

No solid numbers were released on these proposals, but democrats are saying it could cut out a significant chunk of the 3.5 trillion in proposed deficit spending.  And I don't see how you can be more than a drop in the bucket without raping other retirement money

I haven't seen any mention of 401Ks being targeted.  It's the Thiels of the world and the backdoor Roths that allow super rich people to avoid paying taxes. The tax savings of IRAs weren't intended for the ultra rich, they were an incentive for middle and lower class people to save for retirement.  I can't blame the rich for using the system to their advantage.  The system needs a tweak sometimes.

You mention the terrible savings rate of the average American.  I agree.  If they are shitty at saving, how would they be targeted in any of this?  They don't have any savings.  Who is mentioning stealing their money?  That's just scare tactics.  If they have enough to be targeted here, they aren't shitty at saving.

I think the Dems are overinflating what they can get from this.  I doubt anything will happen anyway.  It never does.

[Badger]

I doubt anything will happen anyway.  It never does.

You could write speeches for Biden.