U.S. Politics

[Badger]

You do realize that every landlord is not rich or Donald Trump?

Me thinking about small landlords:

[dcm1602]

I hear Cuba is lovely this time of year

[Badger]

I hear Cuba is lovely this time of year

Good one grandpa, let's get you to bed

[AlioTheFool]

I work in the property management industry. It's booming.

People who aren't paying their rent can't. That's it. It's not laziness, it's straight-up financial disability.

And let's stop with the narrative of a booming job market. Yes, there are thousands of service jobs that pay either minimum wage or less plus tips. So?

If the problem is that unemployment pays more than a person can make at any job they're qualified for, the problem isn't the amount of the money they're being given on unemployment.

[mj2sexay]

I work in the property management industry. It's booming.

People who aren't paying their rent can't. That's it. It's not laziness, it's straight-up financial disability.

And let's stop with the narrative of a booming job market. Yes, there are thousands of service jobs that pay either minimum wage or less plus tips. So?

If the problem is that unemployment pays more than a person can make at any job they're qualified for, the problem isn't the amount of the money they're being given on unemployment.

Yes, lets stop with the inconvenient fact that people could absolutely go acquire a job in order to pay rent because its totally destructive to the case being made that somehow people should be able to live for free on someone else's property in perpetuity.

[Johnny English]

Yes, lets stop with the inconvenient fact that people could absolutely go acquire a job in order to pay rent because its totally destructive to the case being made that somehow people should be able to live for free on someone else's property in perpetuity.

Except that the problem is that those jobs don't pay enough money to cover the cost of living in that property. While there are definitely lazy, shitty people who expect the world to serve them up their every need without doing anything for it, there are terrifyingly large numbers of people who do work and who are struggling to put a roof over their family's head and that is a major issue.

It's funny that I'm on Badger's side here (to an extent) and being accused of being far left when I'm actually a private landlord and therefore theoretically part of the problem. I'm on several landlord and tenant groups and the number of families who are in desperate straits is really worrying; there are also a lot of very shitty landlords who have no place being providers of one of the most basic elements of human survival.

[insanity]

Except that the problem is that those jobs don't pay enough money to cover the cost of living in that property. While there are definitely lazy, shitty people who expect the world to serve them up their every need without doing anything for it, there are terrifyingly large numbers of people who do work and who are struggling to put a roof over their family's head and that is a major issue.

There was a time when a manager of a restaurant, even if it was mcdonald's could support his family as the wife took care of the home.  That no longer exists.  I guess it still exists in MJ's mind, but in reality it doesn't.  That is the true root cause of this economic problem.

Are there other issues at hand, yes.  People are terrible with money, but the fact of the matter is the numbers don't add up to make ends meet. 

Say you are trying to turn your life around.  You move out to long island to get away from high rent prices in the city to save money, at the sacrifice of commuting to NYC everyday for your new $30k a year job.  In order to get just get to work you're paying $480 per month ($360 for monthly pass +120 for subway fare) or nearly $6,000 a year.  That is 20% of your salary (before taxes) on transportation to your job.

The math doesn't work.

[mj2sexay]

Except that the problem is that those jobs don't pay enough money to cover the cost of living in that property.

I want to live in a $5,000 beachfront apartment in Long Branch.

I can't because of my present financial situation.

At what point do people get held accountable for overextending themselves?

There was a time when a manager of a restaurant, even if it was mcdonald's could support his family as the wife took care of the home.  That no longer exists.  I guess it still exists in MJ's mind, but in reality it doesn't.  That is the true root cause of this economic problem.

This is categorically untrue, except we now live in a society where everyone's trying to keep up with the Jones's so to speak. Some managers at Mickey D's make upwards of 60-65 a year.

Funny enough, that's what I'm making in full disclosure since you want to go there. How am I in my uninfinite wisdom able to make it work then on an island that is notorious for its insane cost of living?

Idk, maybe its because my only debt is law school student loans and a mortgage, and I've specifically held off on having kids and the expenses that come with it until either a bump in salary or I successfully pay off my loans.

People compound bad financial decisions with even worse financial decisions and then look for a bailout. I'm not saying that's the entirety of those currently staring down the barrel of an eviction due to the moratorium expiring, but they're also not poor souls who through no fault of their own can't support themselves either. The truth as always lies somewhere in the middle as opposed to the frankly Mao-ist outlook that landlords are vermin who should be exterminated.

You can't just legislate out personal accountability.

[Johnny English]

I want to live in a $5,000 beachfront apartment in Long Branch.

I can't because of my present financial situation.

At what point do people get held accountable for overextending themselves?

Sure. I have no sympathy for people living in property they can't afford when there is property available that they can. The problem is that for too many households there isn't any property that they can afford on a full time income.

Private landlords are good at providing good quality mid and upper range homes, but lower budget properties are generally very poor because of the insistence on making margins. I think that entry level housing is better provided as a social service - not free of charge, but basic accommodation kept to an essential level of quality and cleanliness and repair and rented at a level commensurate with a lower end full time income. I have no problem with private and corporate landlords making money from renting good quality homes to people who can afford it, but I have a big problem with slumlords making money from renting crumbling, bugridden shitholes to people who have no alternative options.

[dcm1602]

Why is it college students are easily able to find something affordable, yet adults are not?

And who the freak is commuting from long Island and raking the train subway etc to go work at Walmart or Costco?

Finding a job that pays 15 dollars an hour is very very easy these days.

The list of companies that have set a wave floor of 15 an hour is incredible.

Not going to deny a laundry list of economic and job problems in the United States. But Americans are absolute freaking retards when it comes to managing their money

That's why in some countries literally just requiring employees to put 8% of their salary into a retirement account has made a world of difference.

People in America are just dumb derriere motherfuckers

[ons]

I've seen plenty of people who work hard, over 40 hours a week, for over $15 an hour really struggle with the ability to rent a shitty one bedroom in a place they felt safe. Plenty of people who pay north of 40% of their income in rent still live in absolute dumpsters because thats what the market dictates and they started off with excrement finances as a teenager/young adult.

Many do choose to move away from all of their friends and social supports to places with lower costs of living, but also take their skilled but poorly compensated work with them, leaving the wealthy, newly settled people in my town wondering why all of their favorite restaurants that they moved here to be close to are struggling with quality and consistency.

The answer to similar questions in the 30s/40s was a ton of actually good federally subsidized housing (mostly just for white people - programs then stopped when the courts determined the actually good housing couldn't be segregated, whoops) but now if the federal government provides good housing it's socialism so now millions are at the mercy of benevolent landlords who we sometimes give vouchers to. Oh well.

[Badger]

Why is it college students are easily able to find something affordable, yet adults are not?

You know there are homeless college students too right?

[CatoTheElder]

Why is it college students are easily able to find something affordable, yet adults are not?

Most usually factor housing into their student loans. Also add on about 2 more roommates than the house should have.

[dcm1602]

Just because we all know that political arguments tend to be excessively long winded and go nowhere because everyone has their minds made up.

I think it's reasonable to say that the economic situation in the US (and honestly the whole world) is fucked up. I'm definitely guilty of blaming people for all their own problems when there's no question the system in place is not optimal and there are systemic issues that need to be resolved.

I just find it interesting how naturally everyone in the world goes towards an argumentative pissing match about their fringe views (ie me saying it's people's own fault, Badgers views on rent landlords etc)

But people don't tend to find the common sense middle grounds which would resolve many issues and most people could get behind and come to a compromise. Ie making finance a core part of educational curriculums like we have with English Math Science, Art.

Or people have monstrous student loans with no way to pay.

Obviously on political ideology the approaches to these issues would be different, but I'd imagine if the whole world wasn't ignorant assholes it would be possible to find solutions to these things that both sides could be content with.

(yup this is me with my typical apolitical waffling)

[delavan]

Good one grandpa, let's get you to bed

B, while you can be a prick's prick--and god bless you for it lad--you're better than coming off as a sniping ageist, i.e. a bigot (however you wanna spin it). 

"Rape ideas, not people" (A. Hoffman: "Revolution For the Hell of It" - 1968) - yes, I suppose I'm an ageist's target audience.