Author Topic: U.S. Politics  (Read 644673 times)

0 Members and 59 Guests are viewing this topic.

dcm1602

  • SUH DUDE
  • Blubbering Pussy
  • Mark Gastineau
  • *
  • Posts: 19533
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5805 on: March 12, 2021, 04:35:02 PM »
Maybe I'm too simple minded and indeed don't know how federal spending works, but if someone takes out a federal loan for X amount and then has it forgiven, then the federal government didn't get paid back the loan or any interest associated with it.  The federal government doesn't have to pay anything new, but it doesn't get paid what it should have.  The student received a service (an education), and didn't pay back the loan in full to do so.  The student was given an education paid for by whoever funds the government (the people). If you want to argue semantics about whether education should be free, whether someone got a degree that was overpriced, etc, that's a different discussion. 

In my little brain, not getting paid back for something is the same thing as having to pay for something.  The only difference is that you already paid for it instead of having to pay for it in the future.  In the end, said student didn't pay for a service they received, the taxpayer did.  Call it what you want.

Yeah but if they wrote the loan in pencil they can just use an eraser.

Badger

  • Global Moderator
  • Joe Namath
  • *****
  • Posts: 51862
  • The only one who's not a piece of excrement
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5806 on: March 12, 2021, 04:56:23 PM »
Maybe I'm too simple minded and indeed don't know how federal spending works, but if someone takes out a federal loan for X amount and then has it forgiven, then the federal government didn't get paid back the loan or any interest associated with it.  The federal government doesn't have to pay anything new, but it doesn't get paid what it should have.  The student received a service (an education), and didn't pay back the loan in full to do so.  The student was given an education paid for by whoever funds the government (the people). If you want to argue semantics about whether education should be free, whether someone got a degree that was overpriced, etc, that's a different discussion. 

In my little brain, not getting paid back for something is the same thing as having to pay for something.  The only difference is that you already paid for it instead of having to pay for it in the future.  In the end, said student didn't pay for a service they received, the taxpayer did.  Call it what you want.
More or less right except taxpayers don't fund federal spending.

So the federal government already paid for these college educations - and it doesn't hurt them to not get paid back, and nobody has to cover it.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 04:58:13 PM by Badger »

bojanglesman

  • Don Maynard
  • *************
  • Posts: 38883
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5807 on: March 12, 2021, 04:58:47 PM »
More or less right except taxpayers don't fund federal spending.

So the federal government already paid for these college educations - and it doesn't hurt them to not get paid back, and nobody has to cover it.
Then who does find spending?  Are you arguing that a ballooning Federal deficit doesn't really matter? Federal spending needs to be paid for by either taxes or increasing debt. Money that a student pays back on their debt is money we don't have to collect in taxes or increasing federal debt. I mean, if you are making the argument that it doesn't really matter how much we are in debt we can just print more money, then that's a different argument to me.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 05:04:36 PM by bojanglesman »

Badger

  • Global Moderator
  • Joe Namath
  • *****
  • Posts: 51862
  • The only one who's not a piece of excrement
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5808 on: March 12, 2021, 05:00:20 PM »
Are you familiar with how a loan works?
Yes, and any lender can forgive a debt.

Your entire position is you personally feel like they shouldn't. You have nothing at stake.

dcm1602

  • SUH DUDE
  • Blubbering Pussy
  • Mark Gastineau
  • *
  • Posts: 19533
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5809 on: March 12, 2021, 05:02:10 PM »
Yes, and any lender can forgive a debt.

Your entire position is you personally feel like they shouldn't. You have nothing at stake.

I'll support free college if they mandate you get an A in economics and finance

Badger

  • Global Moderator
  • Joe Namath
  • *****
  • Posts: 51862
  • The only one who's not a piece of excrement
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5810 on: March 12, 2021, 05:04:23 PM »
so are you arguing that a ballooning Federal deficit doesn't really matter?
When our federal government spends money it basically spends it into existence. It doesn't need to borrow it or raise taxes 1:1 to cover it.

Federal taxes control inflation and ensure USD maintains value as the only currency US taxes can be paid with. And as a bonus, can prevent anti-democratic behavior from the incredibly wealthy.

Badger

  • Global Moderator
  • Joe Namath
  • *****
  • Posts: 51862
  • The only one who's not a piece of excrement
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5811 on: March 12, 2021, 05:05:51 PM »
I'll support free college if they mandate you get an A in economics and finance
I love how the idiot reaction to anything more advanced than Econ 101 is "lol learn Econ 101".

bojanglesman

  • Don Maynard
  • *************
  • Posts: 38883
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5812 on: March 12, 2021, 05:06:34 PM »
When our federal government spends money it basically spends it into existence. It doesn't need to borrow it or raise taxes 1:1 to cover it.

Federal taxes control inflation and ensure USD maintains value as the only currency US taxes can be paid with. And as a bonus, can prevent anti-democratic behavior from the incredibly wealthy.
So every single economist that is worried about the ballooning Federal deficit is wrong? If that's the case then let's cancel all federal debts, print money for everyone and stay home and whack off all day.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 05:09:38 PM by bojanglesman »

Badger

  • Global Moderator
  • Joe Namath
  • *****
  • Posts: 51862
  • The only one who's not a piece of excrement
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5813 on: March 12, 2021, 05:08:21 PM »
So every single economist that is worried about the ballooning Federal deficit is wrong?
Yes, and many economists do not agree with them. Most handwringing over the deficit is from pundits.

dcm1602

  • SUH DUDE
  • Blubbering Pussy
  • Mark Gastineau
  • *
  • Posts: 19533
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5814 on: March 12, 2021, 05:21:42 PM »
The federal government should forgive all mortgages and credit card debt

Then we'd live in utopia

dcm1602

  • SUH DUDE
  • Blubbering Pussy
  • Mark Gastineau
  • *
  • Posts: 19533
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5815 on: March 12, 2021, 05:34:36 PM »
I love how the idiot reaction to anything more advanced than Econ 101 is "lol learn Econ 101".

Your argument is literally the government can pretend that two trillion dollars in loans don't exist and it doesn't matter

That's literally the equivalent of the covid bill, which is the biggest government mandated redistribution of wealth in history

Johnny English

  • Administrator
  • Don Maynard
  • *****
  • Posts: 35864
  • Effort. Technique. Violence.
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5816 on: March 12, 2021, 08:18:26 PM »
The number of people who are able to hold the view that governmental budgets can or should be run like household budgets while simultaneously believing that the taxes are too damn high is astonishing.

Household budgets, corporate budgets and government budgets. The only thing they have in common is the word "budgets". They all work completely differently, and the idea that taxpayers are somehow losing out by the erasure of student debt just demonstrates a complete failure to understand the differences. Stick to balancing your checkbook.
A cross-dressing limey poofter

dcm1602

  • SUH DUDE
  • Blubbering Pussy
  • Mark Gastineau
  • *
  • Posts: 19533
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5817 on: March 12, 2021, 08:47:49 PM »
The number of people who are able to hold the view that governmental budgets can or should be run like household budgets while simultaneously believing that the taxes are too damn high is astonishing.

Household budgets, corporate budgets and government budgets. The only thing they have in common is the word "budgets". They all work completely differently, and the idea that taxpayers are somehow losing out by the erasure of student debt just demonstrates a complete failure to understand the differences. Stick to balancing your checkbook.

It's been debated that the almost 2 trillion dollar stimulus bill is going to be a challenge to pay for.

Explain to me how doubling it is a good idea?

And the stimulus bill was only a drop in the bucket

This country's debt has been maddeningly out of control for years. There's concerns now that just paying off the interest is going to chew up the federal budget.

If you guys think giving away 2 trillion to children who don't want to pay for loans they took out is more important than Medicare for all improved infrastructure or whatever government expenditures you can make that argument for sure. But spending 2 trillion to forgive past loans not even to improve actual education seems like an extremely poor use of increasingly limited funds
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 08:54:11 PM by dcm1602 »

Johnny English

  • Administrator
  • Don Maynard
  • *****
  • Posts: 35864
  • Effort. Technique. Violence.
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5818 on: March 12, 2021, 08:53:17 PM »
It's been debated that the almost 2 trillion dollar stimulus bill is going to be a challenge to pay for.

Explain to me how doubling it is a good idea?

Explain to me why you think that the stimulus bill and the erasure of student debt are comparable or in any way related.
A cross-dressing limey poofter

dcm1602

  • SUH DUDE
  • Blubbering Pussy
  • Mark Gastineau
  • *
  • Posts: 19533
Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #5819 on: March 12, 2021, 08:55:04 PM »
Explain to me why you think that the stimulus bill and the erasure of student debt are comparable or in any way related.

Because their price tags are both almost 2 trillion dollars.

And were talking about national debt being out of control

Tags: