Author Topic: U.S. Politics  (Read 645178 times)

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Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3075 on: January 18, 2018, 03:48:24 PM »

bojanglesman

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3076 on: January 18, 2018, 04:01:44 PM »
Not all lobbyists are bad either.  Some of them serve a purpose to inform and educate government officials of the specific needs of certain groups that may not otherwise be known.  There's nothing wrong with serving the needs of your represented group to get what is fair.  It's unfair when a group has so many lobbyists and so much power financially that they can get what they want whether fair or not.

My wife and I met a lobbyist for a large insurance company recently.  We talked for a while about her job.  She lobbies specifically regarding women's health care coverage and the government.  Without going into detail, nothing about her job seemed nefarious at all.  She constantly talked about trying to help under-represented people get help and helping women keep their lady-parts doctor without having to drop them because certain doctor groups can't afford to continue to stay with an insurer.  That being said, I don't work with her, so she may be Dr. Evil the rest of the time, I don't know.

We have lobbyists in the veterinary field.  Not only are they not crooked, they suck at their job apparently because it's like pulling teeth to get simple things done in our field regarding drug laws.



« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 04:06:15 PM by bojanglesman »

Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3077 on: January 18, 2018, 07:14:06 PM »
Elected officials are supposed to serve their local constituents, not lobbyists making 6 figures showering them in money and gifts.  I don't care about the cause.  I'm sure some align with my politics, but I'm willing to lose them if the rest go with them.


bojanglesman

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3078 on: January 18, 2018, 07:20:34 PM »
Elected officials are supposed to serve their local constituents, not lobbyists making 6 figures showering them in money and gifts.  I don't care about the cause.  I'm sure some align with my politics, but I'm willing to lose them if the rest go with them.
You can lump them all together if you like, I'm just telling you they serve a just purpose in some cases.  Certainly there are plenty of awful groups but you can say the same about politicians too.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 04:55:31 AM by bojanglesman »

Miamipuck

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3079 on: January 18, 2018, 10:44:47 PM »
Elected officials are supposed to serve their local constituents, not lobbyists making 6 figures showering them in money and gifts.  I don't care about the cause.  I'm sure some align with my politics, but I'm willing to lose them if the rest go with them.



It's become a total freaking joke, a complete joke that our representatives don't represent jack excrement. Well other than special or their own interests.
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Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3080 on: January 19, 2018, 10:03:29 AM »
It's become a total freaking joke, a complete joke that our representatives don't represent jack excrement. Well other than special or their own interests.
My point exactly.

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3081 on: January 19, 2018, 10:37:57 AM »
Re: lobbyists, I've been working with a lobbying firm for a couple of years now. There's nothing wrong with using them, but their use can be abused.

I have used them to get me access to ministerial offices, and in some cases ministers, in order for me to represent a particular commercial scenario that needs visibility at their level so that the decisions made at a very senior level are done so from a balanced perspective. I'm choosing my words very carefully here for obvious reasons, but suffice to say that if you're the chairman or CEO of a very large company that employs tens or hundreds of thousands of people, you can pick up the phone to the some of the highest levels of government and get a sympathetic ear. If you represent a competing vendor who has a different but equally valid perspective on the market and how government legislation and decision making will affect it, you sometimes need assistance to get that sympathetic ear. That's where lobbyists come in, and they're very useful.

Where lobbying really can run amuck is when they represent very powerful and/or wealthy special interests. The problem isn't so much lobbying as it is the ability to use power and influence to affect campaigns - lobbyists simply provide the voice to those interests. If you controlled election spending more tightly, you'd reduce the power of the special interests over the candidates and thus the lobbyists would be less relevant.
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Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3082 on: January 19, 2018, 12:22:39 PM »
Re: lobbyists, I've been working with a lobbying firm for a couple of years now. There's nothing wrong with using them, but their use can be abused.

I have used them to get me access to ministerial offices, and in some cases ministers, in order for me to represent a particular commercial scenario that needs visibility at their level so that the decisions made at a very senior level are done so from a balanced perspective. I'm choosing my words very carefully here for obvious reasons, but suffice to say that if you're the chairman or CEO of a very large company that employs tens or hundreds of thousands of people, you can pick up the phone to the some of the highest levels of government and get a sympathetic ear. If you represent a competing vendor who has a different but equally valid perspective on the market and how government legislation and decision making will affect it, you sometimes need assistance to get that sympathetic ear. That's where lobbyists come in, and they're very useful.

Where lobbying really can run amuck is when they represent very powerful and/or wealthy special interests. The problem isn't so much lobbying as it is the ability to use power and influence to affect campaigns - lobbyists simply provide the voice to those interests. If you controlled election spending more tightly, you'd reduce the power of the special interests over the candidates and thus the lobbyists would be less relevant.
All true.

However, the way our country and legislative system was established, was that representatives in congress are there to, you know, represent.  As a citizen of Nevada, my elected officials should not be lending an ear to a massive corporation in Illinois.

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3083 on: January 19, 2018, 12:58:50 PM »
All true.

However, the way our country and legislative system was established, was that representatives in congress are there to, you know, represent.  As a citizen of Nevada, my elected officials should not be lending an ear to a massive corporation in Illinois.


Sure they should. It's their job to make sure that those corporations are in the best place possible to succeed and create wealth and jobs for their constituents, which means they need to understand the challenges and opportunities those corporations are dealing with.

What they shouldn't be doing is taking any form of consideration from those corporations that will assist with their re-election in exchange for supporting legislative change that is in the interest of the shareholders rather than the employees.

And no, corporations are not citizens.
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AlioTheFool

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3084 on: January 19, 2018, 02:14:43 PM »
Sure they should. It's their job to make sure that those corporations are in the best place possible to succeed and create wealth and jobs for their constituents, which means they need to understand the challenges and opportunities those corporations are dealing with.

What they shouldn't be doing is taking any form of consideration from those corporations that will assist with their re-election in exchange for supporting legislative change that is in the interest of the shareholders rather than the employees.

And no, corporations are not citizens.

This is all true.

I think the biggest problem with our system is the issue of disclosure.

I'm accepting that a corporation can donate to a campaign. Maybe that lawmaker is sympathetic to a specific issue that corporation faces. A corporation may not be a person, but it supports people.

But when a lobbying organization *coughNRAcough* can take money from Russia, then insert it into a presidential campaign via an account that is not legally bound to disclose its source? That's where the entire lobbying argument falls apart.

Every single dollar donated to every single campaign, from the President, to Congress, down to the smallest town's mayor should be public record. Period. It should be 100% illegal to hide where any money came from. Then individuals may decide based on actual evidence who they want to give their vote to.

You have to present an ID in CVS to purchase a Visa gift card--under terrorism related money-laundering laws. How the hell is a presidential campaign allowed to take money without it being traceable?
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Jumbo

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3085 on: January 19, 2018, 03:18:18 PM »
This is all true.

I think the biggest problem with our system is the issue of disclosure.

I'm accepting that a corporation can donate to a campaign. Maybe that lawmaker is sympathetic to a specific issue that corporation faces. A corporation may not be a person, but it supports people.

But when a lobbying organization *coughNRAcough* can take money from Russia, then insert it into a presidential campaign via an account that is not legally bound to disclose its source? That's where the entire lobbying argument falls apart.

Every single dollar donated to every single campaign, from the President, to Congress, down to the smallest town's mayor should be public record. Period. It should be 100% illegal to hide where any money came from. Then individuals may decide based on actual evidence who they want to give their vote to.

You have to present an ID in CVS to purchase a Visa gift card--under terrorism related money-laundering laws. How the hell is a presidential campaign allowed to take money without it being traceable?

Do you think you should be required to present an ID in order to vote?

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3086 on: January 19, 2018, 03:30:51 PM »
Do you think you should be required to present an ID in order to vote?

Do you think that campaign financing is less of a thumb on the scale of American election process than voted fraud?
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AlioTheFool

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3087 on: January 19, 2018, 03:58:57 PM »
Do you think you should be required to present an ID in order to vote?

I think it's a reasonable idea--with a specific condition.

A government-issued ID should be something every American citizen has a right to. If we all have to register for Selective Service at 18, why can't we also get an ID that says "Hey, I'm a legal adult and US citizen"? I'm not talking about a driver's license, just an ID card with your name, address, and a picture of your face. The financial barrier to acquiring an ID is, to me, the problem.
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Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3088 on: January 19, 2018, 04:54:13 PM »
Do you think you should be required to present an ID in order to vote?
That's a loaded question.  As long as the rules are applied equally I would consider it.  As it stands, I live in a relatively well off district, and am a clean cut white male.  I haven't been asked to present ID, ever.  It also takes me 15 minutes to vote, including the drive.

Make non DL cards free, and open more polling stations in the inner cities, as well as polling stations on college campuses, and we have a deal.

Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #3089 on: January 19, 2018, 10:46:18 PM »
Was kind of expecting a midnight deal to be struck to avoid a shutdown but that's not gonna happen at this point.

Thankfully I'm essential personnel so I won't be furloughed, but if this drags on I won't get paid until it's over.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 10:48:17 PM by Badger »

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