U.S. Politics

[dcm1602]

Which is still more than what a lot of citizens pay.

Well considering they're factoring in sales tax I'd imagine it's at the very least similar to what many citizens who don't pay federal income tax are paying.

Of course there's also that small difference of those citizens actually being citizens of this country

[Badger]

Well considering they're factoring in sales tax I'd imagine it's at the very least similar to what many citizens who don't pay federal income tax are paying.

Of course there's also that small difference of those citizens actually being citizens of this country

I forgot illegals don't pay sales tax.

Waitasekent

[dcm1602]

I forgot illegals don't pay sales tax.

Waitasekent

My point was that Americans who don't pay federal income taxes are paying sales tax too.

Which means the  poorest Americans are probably paying roughly the same amount of taxes as illegals.

[Badger]

Before I get dragged into some stupid argument on behalf of a cause I'm not particularly passionate about, I'm just pointing out excrement that isn't true.

Generally if an undocumented worker has gone through the trouble of getting a TIN, they plan to eventually become a citizen.

[Tommy]

https://itep.org/immigration/

Obviously they buy excrement that's taxed, but that's not the point. They shouldn't be in this country in the first place, and they're literally continuing to break the law by staying here. Why are you so quick to defend illegal immigration? If you got a job in Germany on a work visa, get fired, then stay in the country working under the table, would you really be surprised or want sympathy if you got caught and deported even though you're paying hundreds of bucks a month in taxes for your steins of beer?

[Johnny English]

Obviously they buy excrement that's taxed, but that's not the point. They shouldn't be in this country in the first place, and they're literally continuing to break the law by staying here. Why are you so quick to defend illegal immigration? If you got a job in Germany on a work visa, get fired, then stay in the country working under the table, would you really be surprised or want sympathy if you got caught and deported even though you're paying hundreds of bucks a month in taxes for your steins of beer?

I'm not defending illegal immigration, I'm pointing out the incorrectness of your statement.

Why are you so determined to pee into the wind rather than accept reality?

[Tommy]

I'm not defending illegal immigration, I'm pointing out the incorrectness of your statement.

Why are you so determined to pee into the wind rather than accept reality?

Fine, I can withdraw that entire statement and simply say "Why does anyone who's here illegally think they have a right to stay?" A 5 year citizen old can't vote and doesn't pay taxes, but he can complain all he wants. These people all broke the law.

Why do I have to accept a reality of illegals flaunting their status and people defending their alleged "right" to be here? That doesn't make any sense. If they're here quietly, that's one thing, but we've seen Clinton parading them onstage to raucous applauses, illegals openly asking questions in town halls, and now protesting while proudly wearing shirts identifying their unlawful status in this country.

I don't see why it's difficult to get rid of illegals. Punish those businesses who hire them, make state ID or a social security card a recruitment for sending money overseas, and increase border security. Tighten both the supply and demand for illegal immigration and we'll see their numbers decrease. Also start rigorously enforcing immigration laws - if you get arrested and are found to be here illegally, you're out. Caught running a red light? Should've been more careful, or better yet don't get behind the wheel since you're not even supposed to be driving when you're undocumented.

If you have children who were born here, let's give the parents a path to citizenship provided they don't have a criminal record. No kids? Get out.

[bojanglesman]

No kids? Get out.

You're gonna see some illegals going in raw dog with that policy, chief.  Cromartie style.  9 months to a path.

[Fenwyr]

I am sick of first or second generation Americans bitching about people being here illegally.  Your parents or grandparents walked through a wide open front door, and in most cases, didn't pay a god damned penny to become citizens.

[Johnny English]

Fine, I can withdraw that entire statement and simply say "Why does anyone who's here illegally think they have a right to stay?" A 5 year citizen old can't vote and doesn't pay taxes, but he can complain all he wants. These people all broke the law.

Why do I have to accept a reality of illegals flaunting their status and people defending their alleged "right" to be here? That doesn't make any sense. If they're here quietly, that's one thing, but we've seen Clinton parading them onstage to raucous applauses, illegals openly asking questions in town halls, and now protesting while proudly wearing shirts identifying their unlawful status in this country.

I don't see why it's difficult to get rid of illegals. Punish those businesses who hire them, make state ID or a social security card a recruitment for sending money overseas, and increase border security. Tighten both the supply and demand for illegal immigration and we'll see their numbers decrease. Also start rigorously enforcing immigration laws - if you get arrested and are found to be here illegally, you're out. Caught running a red light? Should've been more careful, or better yet don't get behind the wheel since you're not even supposed to be driving when you're undocumented.

If you have children who were born here, let's give the parents a path to citizenship provided they don't have a criminal record. No kids? Get out.

Like Badger, I don't have especially strong feelings on the topic. I'm amused though that you in your role as Mr Free Markets Guy have such a hardline position on it, because it flies in the face of several of those principles.

[dcm1602]

I am sick of first or second generation Americans bitching about people being here illegally.  Your parents or grandparents walked through a wide open front door, and in most cases, didn't pay a god damned penny to become citizens.

We live in a different world today than we did then. Economics, crime, terrorism, drugs were all completely different 50-150 years ago than they are today. Not to mention the quantities of people coming illegally has presumably increased substantially.

I'm all for immigration. But why the freak shouldn't the United States choose the best and brightest? There's billions of people in the world, more of them want to be in the United States than anywhere else on earth.

Let's cherry pick the hard working, educated, skilled, those without criminal records. Why the freak should we instead reward those who came here illegally simply because they broke federal law.

[Fenwyr]

Like Badger, I don't have especially strong feelings on the topic. I'm amused though that you in your role as Mr Free Markets Guy have such a hardline position on it, because it flies in the face of several of those principles.

Tommy could start a recruiting agency for field work and housekeeping, offer $5 an hour with no benefits, and only hire US citizens.  Watch how fast he would prove you wrong.

[Fenwyr]

We live in a different world today than we did then. Economics, crime, terrorism, drugs were all completely different 50-150 years ago than they are today. Not to mention the quantities of people coming illegally has presumably increased substantially.

I'm all for immigration. But why the freak shouldn't the United States choose the best and brightest? There's billions of people in the world, more of them want to be in the United States than anywhere else on earth.

Let's cherry pick the hard working, educated, skilled, those without criminal records. Why the freak should we instead reward those who came here illegally simply because they broke federal law.

You're doing the Trump thing here.  First off, the economy was growing much faster back then, every known statistic shows that immigrants are less likely to commit crime, there hasn't been a terrorist attack committed by an illegal, and 99% of drugs come in on trucks.

Until we put the statue of liberty in a museum and give the country back to the native americans, we are a country of immigrants.

[dcm1602]

You're doing the Trump thing here.  First off, the economy was growing much faster back then, every known statistic shows that immigrants are less likely to commit crime, there hasn't been a terrorist attack committed by an illegal, and 99% of drugs come in on trucks.

Until we put the statue of liberty in a museum and give the country back to the native americans, we are a country of immigrants.

Yes the economy was growing faster then so there was a surplus of unskilled labor for all the immigrants.

I'm gonna call bullshit on illegals are less likely the commit a crime. Even when not including thst the act of coming here illegally is commiting a crime.

A terrorist attack hasn't been committed by an illegal? I guess you haven't followed news in Europe in recent years

And 99% of drugs coming in by truck is probably also bullshit.

And yes nobody is saying immigration is bad. The fact is only a limited number of people can be here. You can even put a process in place where you select the best and brightest, or just let anybody do whatever the freak they want. I have no freaking idea whatsoever how anybody could support letting people do whatever they want however they want.

Honestly I could give a excrement if they even gave citizenship to all the people currently here illegally, as long as they made solid clear rules going forward

[Fenwyr]

Yes the economy was growing faster then so there was a surplus of unskilled labor for all the immigrants.

I'm gonna call bullshit on illegals are less likely the commit a crime. Even when not including thst the act of coming here illegally is commiting a crime.

A terrorist attack hasn't been committed by an illegal? I guess you haven't followed news in Europe in recent years

And 99% of drugs coming in by truck is probably also bullshit.

I love the fact you counter me with, 'I'm not going to research this, and I admit I have no clue about the statistics, but my all knowing gut tells me you are wrong.'

If you are freely admitting, as you have done countless times, that you have no idea what the freak you are talking about, why do you enter the discussion?