Author Topic: U.S. Politics  (Read 644970 times)

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Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1935 on: March 31, 2017, 09:34:33 AM »
I know we're in the habit of calling each others posts on politics gigantic blocks of excrement, but this one does really take the cake.

1. According to the Hyde Amendment technically you're correct, but the Forbes article I linked states after a fairly comprehensive analysis that a quarter of abortions are federally subsidized. If someone who's better at forensic accounting (given my math skills, probably anyone on this board) can take a look at that study and refute it, I'm all ears.

2. Those videos by Project Veritas were never proven to be a "scam." They were never doctored or selectively edited as PP would like you to believe. This is a flat out lie.

And yes, but that's only half the reason. As I've stated, its bad enough to donate to politicians with public funds, but these people that are getting cash are actually acting on their conflict of interest. I already went into how deep their fingers are in politics and even worse, functions of what is supposed to be an independent and non-biased judiciary in California.

3. It only didn't happen before because there was no situation in 1992 for Bush to name a new judge with one year left in his Presidency. Or am I not supposed to take Clueless Joe at his word at the time, that denying a confirmation hearing is EXACTLY what they would've done? Again, there is no Constitutional demand that a President has his nomination confirmed. The senate is not a rubber stamp. This is basic civics.

4. There is literally no basis behind this comment, and this is predominantly how you discredit yourself. Hyperbolic rhetoric with no basis in reality will do that. It's like you're not even aware that the swing vote in Obergfell was cast by one of those "RETHUGLIKKKANS OMGG!"

5. This push to blame a judge for attempting to enforce a law on record is an indication that people have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role a justice is supposed to play. They don't make laws. They interpret them. If you have a problem with the letter of the law, in this case blame the assholes that wrote it, not the Judgewho's enforcing it. Or, you know. Doing his job. Judge's only get to strike down what is unconstitutional, not what's dumb. We have an entire legislative process for that. But, when you have sitting senators (Kamala Harris making another appearance, she really is a freaking idiot) saying, "Judge Gorsuch has consistently valued narrow legalisms over real lives." Oh. So in other words you mean as a Judge he's followed the freaking LAW which is exactly what he's supposed to do. Again, this is the system we've had for 250 years. Unless something is blatantly unconstitutional, you don't go through the judiciary to get a law changed, that is the job of the legislative branch.

6. So out of curiosity, if Merrick Garland had gotten his hearing and then been denied confirmation, then what? Is it still "a situation?" Again, what was the logical endgame of that entire mess, besides him getting a denial because no matter how hard you want to believe it, the man is a liberal judge up against a conservative senate majority?

If 1 and 2a had any validity it should have been prosecuted.  It was in fact investigated, so do the math.  I could into detail about the videos, but there is no need.

You can thank citizens united for 2b.  I'm all for pulling money out of politics, but for now it is what it is.  Haven't heard you crying foul about the NRA.

I clearly said 3 was unprecedented.  Biden saying something but nothing happening is not the same as something happening.  If it had, it would have been wrong back then as well.  Would you be OK with the dems fillibustering every pick until 2021?  Should a president under investigation for possible treason be allowed to appoint a judge?  What if his name was Obama?

In regards to 4, looking at his rulings he is cleary no friend to gays or womens rights.  His interpretation of the laws in such cases show a clear bias, which you agree is not a good thing.

With 5 Gorsuch was the lone dissenting judge.  The law he invoked had an absurdatiy clause.  Every judge but him agreed that it would have been absurd for the driver to die to protect his job.  Gorsuch didn't even try to dispute the facts of the case when questioned by Franken.

As for 6 if Gorsuch had got Borked then so be it.  He didn't even get a hearing.  As it stands, independant polling shows he could have received up to 80 votes.

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« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 09:42:27 AM by Fenwyr »

sg3

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1936 on: March 31, 2017, 09:44:19 AM »
Fenwyr

It is a waste of your time to try and present facts, truth or logic to low IQ Fox News  GOP trailer trash Trumpbots

They will support his treason and insanity to the end, which it appears won't be that far in the future



Miamipuck

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1937 on: March 31, 2017, 09:49:03 AM »
5. This push to blame a judge for attempting to enforce a law on record is an indication that people have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role a justice is supposed to play. They don't make laws. They interpret them. If you have a problem with the letter of the law, in this case blame the assholes that wrote it, not the Judgewho's enforcing it. Or, you know. Doing his job. Judge's only get to strike down what is unconstitutional, not what's dumb. We have an entire legislative process for that. But, when you have sitting senators (Kamala Harris making another appearance, she really is a freaking idiot) saying, "Judge Gorsuch has consistently valued narrow legalisms over real lives." Oh. So in other words you mean as a Judge he's followed the freaking LAW which is exactly what he's supposed to do. Again, this is the system we've had for 250 years. Unless something is blatantly unconstitutional, you don't go through the judiciary to get a law changed, that is the job of the legislative branch.

In my humble non legal opinion, I think there's a lot of grey area in Law. You can interpret to the letter of the law or use sound judgement as to what you think the law means. Either way is an option or use a little bit of both. Gorsuch , to me is a mean spirited letter of the law guy and quite frankly, I do not like him and do not feel he should be a SCOTUS Justice.

Consistently, throughout his career, Gorsuch has gone against the little guy even in dissenting opinions. He's fairly consistent with this. For instance, the Madden/Transam Trucking case. The guy was freezing to freaking death and he still ruled in favor of the company firing the guy, letter of the law my poopchute ( again he just kind of pisses me off for some reason). The law wasn't written to protect a company in such extenuating circumstances.

I suppose if you ( I mean Gorsuch not "you") want to be a freaking mean poopchute then sure side with the company. Also, he has a ruling overturned by the SCOTUS a few years back, I don't know remember exactly which one but it was similar to the Madden/Transam case and the SCOTUS unanimously overturned that. Judge Roberts wrote an opinion on it.
 The fact the SCOTUS overturned one of his decisions isn't my issue, lots of judges have that happen. My issue is once again he sided with the corporation in a rather obtuse way.

It's my opinion he is a mean spirited complete and utter douchebag and I want no part of him on the SCOTUS. I wasn't too particularly fond of Scalia, at first, but he was a genuinely nice well informed Justice. While he adhered to a strict adherence to Constitutional Law, there were times where he at least budged, I think the case I am trying to remember that Roberts wrote an opinion on was one of those times.

Also, he was great friends with many of the people he consistently dissented. That more than anything is a measure of character. I do not think Gorsuch is of such character. It's my opinion only, I do not like him one bit. 

I will be on record that I like judges to be more liberal and for politicians to be more conservative/libertarian. Unfortunately, my Utopia will probably never ever happen.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 10:01:03 AM by Miamipuck »
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Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1938 on: March 31, 2017, 11:05:47 AM »


So because PP is the only organization thats currently afforded 500 million to bolster their infrastructure, they have cart blanche and can't be replaced?

It was an honest question. What's the specific alternative? Let's support it so we can stop these ostensibly corrupt execs from lining their pockets with taxpayer money.

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1939 on: March 31, 2017, 11:13:43 AM »
I don't know, maybe the fact that they make donations exclusively to democratic candidates. If they were a privately funded company I really could care less. 500 million in taxpayer funds should come with strings attached, one being no political donations of any kind, much less in such a flagrantly partisan manner.

That seems a little chicken and egg. In a two party system where one party broadly supports your mandate and a large part of the other explicitly wishes to kill you off, or at least one of your most important functions, it's hard to criticise them for having a preference. They're not a government department, so they're not required to be apolitical.

And money is fungible. If Federal funding was their whole source of income then perhaps I'd have a degree more sympathy, but they also receive huge amounts from various other sources. It's entirely reasonable to argue that their political contributions come from donations from the Gates Foundation and that the federal monies are used for the provision of healthcare.

Quote
I didn't even know about this until right now because of course the AP would freaking ignore it, but we currently have a situation where the AG of California has received thousands upon thousands of dollars from Planned Parenthood, and is yet refusing to recuse himself from the prosecution of two pro-life activists who recorded PP executives back in 2015 talking about selling fetal tissue to research organizations (direct violation of federal law).  Thats kosher to you?

No less kosher than an AG receiving campaign contributions from the NRA but refusing to recuse himself from any 2A-related case. I don't think you can purely stick the issue of campaign finance and the resulting conflicts of interest on PP - that's a much wider problem.
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dcm1602

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1940 on: March 31, 2017, 11:46:43 AM »
Fenwyr

It is a waste of your time to try and present facts, truth or logic to low IQ Fox News  GOP trailer trash Trumpbots

They will support his treason and insanity to the end, which it appears won't be that far in the future




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dcm1602

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1941 on: April 01, 2017, 01:35:08 PM »
The irony for you anti gun folks

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/01/without-obama-once-booming-gun-industry-poised-to-shrink.amp.html

Under Obama gun sales completely soared, under Trump theyve dropped almost 20% since he got elected

Tommy

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1942 on: April 01, 2017, 01:53:45 PM »
The irony for you anti gun folks

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/01/without-obama-once-booming-gun-industry-poised-to-shrink.amp.html

Under Obama gun sales completely soared, under Trump theyve dropped almost 20% since he got elected

Well gun enthusiasts stockpiled because of the threat of new gun control laws etc. Sales will obviously decline after a big few years like that.
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Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1943 on: April 01, 2017, 01:58:50 PM »
Well gun enthusiasts stockpiled because of the threat of new gun control laws etc. Sales will obviously decline after a big few years like that.
Yeah, but still

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Tommy

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1944 on: April 01, 2017, 02:01:07 PM »
Yeah, but still

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Consumer retail is dying, and since you can't buy guns online it's gonna get even tougher.
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Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1945 on: April 01, 2017, 02:53:10 PM »
Consumer retail is dying, and since you can't buy guns online it's gonna get even tougher.
I was kidding and answering for dcm.

You were spot on.  Obama was gunna take der guns, so sales went through the roof.  No shock at all that sales dropped off.  In 4-8 years it will be, Newsom is gonna take er guns, and sales will go back up.  The difference is Obama never had any intention to, Newsom or someone like him is far more likely to go after the NRA.

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Tommy

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1946 on: April 01, 2017, 03:21:41 PM »
I was kidding and answering for dcm.

You were spot on.  Obama was gunna take der guns, so sales went through the roof.  No shock at all that sales dropped off.  In 4-8 years it will be, Newsom is gonna take er guns, and sales will go back up.  The difference is Obama never had any intention to, Newsom or someone like him is far more likely to go after the NRA.

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It's not even about that since I don't think you can buy guns online, and when the brick and mortar stores go, where are you gonna get them?
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Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1947 on: April 01, 2017, 04:04:18 PM »
Technically you can buy a gun online - you just have to get it shipped to a dealer to pick it up.

Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1948 on: April 03, 2017, 09:24:26 PM »
My sister in law is still blaming Sanders for Clinton losing the election (FB posts). It's hard not to respond but it's not worth the number of jimmies that would be rustled.

If the Dem party leadership goes into 2020 with that mentality, they will absolutely lose again and they'll deserve it.

Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1949 on: April 04, 2017, 09:28:16 AM »
My sister in law is still blaming Sanders for Clinton losing the election (FB posts). It's hard not to respond but it's not worth the number of jimmies that would be rustled.

If the Dem party leadership goes into 2020 with that mentality, they will absolutely lose again and they'll deserve it.
I voted for Sanders in the primary.  Held my nose and voted for Clinton in the general.  Clinton had nothing to do with the 'scandal'.  Screw the DNC.  The too cool for school Sanders supporters voting third party or not at all elected Trump, and they should own it as much as Russia.

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