Author Topic: U.S. Politics  (Read 645603 times)

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Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1920 on: March 30, 2017, 09:23:12 PM »
How is PP partisan?
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mj2sexay

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1921 on: March 30, 2017, 09:39:15 PM »
Good nuanced view.

Is it? Because by the same logic, by supporting corporate welfare, he's really just a tool for all the fatcats and 1 percenters in this country.

I don't actually believe that, but that would be the same logic would it not?

How is PP partisan?

I don't know, maybe the fact that they make donations exclusively to democratic candidates. If they were a privately funded company I really could care less. 500 million in taxpayer funds should come with strings attached, one being no political donations of any kind, much less in such a flagrantly partisan manner.

I didn't even know about this until right now because of course the AP would freaking ignore it, but we currently have a situation where the AG of California has received thousands upon thousands of dollars from Planned Parenthood, and is yet refusing to recuse himself from the prosecution of two pro-life activists who recorded PP executives back in 2015 talking about selling fetal tissue to research organizations (direct violation of federal law).  Thats kosher to you?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 09:58:54 PM by mj2sexay »

Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1922 on: March 30, 2017, 10:00:12 PM »
Hell I don't even mind federal funding paying for abortions, as it's a helluva lot cheaper than paying for a lifetime of handouts and incarceration for these children who will have the odds stacked against them the entire life.

But planned parenthood is a very partisan organization, and as a result many people hate them.

Also I'd be willing to bet the overwhelming majority of abortions happen in innercities not bumble freak middle of nowhere. So I find it hard to believe that planned parenthood is the only place you can terminate your baby in new york freaking city
Missing the entire point of my post - what about the people outside cities, especially in red states?

dcm1602

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1923 on: March 30, 2017, 10:06:38 PM »
Missing the entire point of my post - what about the people outside cities, especially in red states?

Then those people will likely have issues with access to all Healthcare and not just abortion. Not to mention many of those states (red states) have very restrictive laws that make seeking and obtaining an abortion fat more complicated than it nerds to be

My point was the majority of the population lives in   dense urban areas where they would have access to public transportation and a plethora of options.

Look I'm cool with abortion and support the economics of paying for other people's abortions. That doesn't stop me from hating a highly political organization like PP though

Miamipuck

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1924 on: March 30, 2017, 10:15:43 PM »
Is it? Because by the same logic, by supporting corporate welfare, he's really just a tool for all the fatcats and 1 percenters in this country.

I don't actually believe that, but that would be the same logic would it not? 

Actually, I don't think it is. Some states are making creative legislation that's trying to abolish all abortion in a way to circumvent Roe v. Wade, you know basically making it so onerous that no one fits the criteria to be a Dr at a clinic or can legally be a patient there.

 Circling back to the SCOTUS nominee, Gorsuch, and the question of RvW. (who I can't stand for a myriad of reasons but nothing to do with Roe v. Wade as I agree with him). He answered it perfectly, it's the rule of law now, it's precedent. Basically, shut the freak up and accept it. But no they can't do that.

So no I don't really agree about the corporate welfare devils advocate argument, because it's not both ways, it's one way. I am sorry but if you let the religious right dictate social policy this country will be in the freaking stone age inside of 20 years.

BTW, I honestly don't give three shits about PP, I care about women that can properly get an abortion by a real Dr and not some midwife armed with a wire hanger. (yeah the last part is hyperbole but you get the point). Also if something rustles the jimmies of the religious right, I am for it......I hate those fuckers with a passion.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 10:21:56 PM by Miamipuck »
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Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1925 on: March 30, 2017, 10:25:08 PM »
Then those people will likely have issues with access to all Healthcare and not just abortion. Not to mention many of those states (red states) have very restrictive laws that make seeking and obtaining an abortion fat more complicated than it nerds to be

My point was the majority of the population lives in   dense urban areas where they would have access to public transportation and a plethora of options.

Look I'm cool with abortion and support the economics of paying for other people's abortions. That doesn't stop me from hating a highly political organization like PP though

Again, ignoring my point.

If abortion rights can be protected across all 50 states, other entities will spring up to provide these services, and the federal government will no longer need to overreach in this area. Then defund PP and let them compete in the infallible, glorious free market that fixes all things. The invisible hand, holding a coat hanger!

But right now, we'll keep subsidizing them federally while we wait for some states to catch up to the 20th (let's aim low) century.

Miamipuck

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1926 on: March 30, 2017, 10:32:01 PM »
I want to add that it is patently absurd to base your vote for a SCOTUS nominee on their Roe v. Wade stance. The fact that these dickhead politicians use it as a benchmark is so beyond freaking stupid. There are so many more nuanced rulings that can accurately gauge a judges leanings it blows my mind.

Honestly, I couldn't care less about a judge's RvW stance. I am much more interested in his other more important rulings that actually deal with far more likely circumstances than an obscure abortion case.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 10:37:08 PM by Miamipuck »
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Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1927 on: March 30, 2017, 10:43:23 PM »
Is it? Because by the same logic, by supporting corporate welfare, he's really just a tool for all the fatcats and 1 percenters in this country.

I don't actually believe that, but that would be the same logic would it not?

As soon as we invade another country or crash the housing market because of pro-choice billionaires let me know. Until then I don't think it's a specific problem we need to focus on.

Since dcm still probably isn't getting it, I'll reiterate: until abortion rights are protected in every state, it's not unreasonable for the federal government to back the largest organization fighting for it.

mj2sexay

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1928 on: March 30, 2017, 10:50:18 PM »
Actually, I don't think it is. Some states are making creative legislation that's trying to abolish all abortion in a way to circumvent Roe v. Wade, you know basically making it so onerous that no one fits the criteria to be a Dr at a clinic or can legally be a patient there.

Circling back to the SCOTUS nominee, Gorsuch, and the question of RvW. (who I can't stand for a myriad of reasons but nothing to do with Roe v. Wade as I agree with him). He answered it perfectly, it's the rule of law now, it's precedent. Basically, shut the freak up and accept it. But no they can't do that.

So no I don't really agree about the corporate devils advocate argument, because it's not both ways, it's one way. I am sorry but if you let the religious right dictate social policy this country will be in the freaking stone age inside of 20 years.

BTW, I honestly don't give three shits about PP, I care about women that can properly get an abortion by a real Dr and not some midwife armed with a wire hanger. (yeah the last part is hyperbole but you get the point). Also if something rustles the jimmies of the religious right, I am for it......I hate those fuckers with a passion.

Here is the logic: If I as someone who's pro-choice doesn't believe in the federal funding of abortion (which I never said, I'm just not in favor of a corrupt entity like PP being the one to get those dollars), I'm a tool of the religious right.

My counter is, if Badger believes in corporate welfare, then he's just a tool for all the fat cats and 1 percenters in this country.

Essentially, the logic is well if you aren't 100 percent in lockstep on this issue, really you're unwittingly just a tool for a side that you'd otherwise be in stark contrast too, and I'm going to label you as such. I just don't agree with that at all. I can absolutely believe that PP is a corrupt entity that needs to get shitcanned ASAP, and not be a "tool for the religious right."

I'm not sure if you've all noticed, but the religious right is dying anyway. The religious right is Glenn Beck, it's Ben Sasse, it's never Trump conservatives for the most part who either bent the knee after Trump threw them a bone with Pence, or like Beck, continue to just fade into absolute irrelevance, while the only act that did anything on their rinky dink site moves to the bright lights of Fox. (And for the record I find Tomi annoying as excrement, but I get a big kick out of people who have to put on full blast how annoying she is then sharing absolute drivel from Keith freaking Olbermann.) But the religious right is becoming increasingly more irrelevant. Why else do you think that hatchet-job on Milo was perpetrated by members of said group? It wasn't liberals that tried to smear him, and its simply because no one under the age of 50 has any use for them, and the new mark of conservatism won't come from Christian traditionalism but libertarian principles. Their grasp isn't slipping, it's completely loosened.

As far as states making creative legislation, it's not a concern for me because the bills that are truly whacked out (ones demanding by the inch zone requirements, unreasonable and unusual demands for drs etc.) , are usually shut down by the judiciary the second a whacked out governor tries to sign them into law. And if some of that legislation that is considered creative includes bills banning abortions after 20 weeks, or imposing at least SOME standards like Kermit Gosnell didn't exist, then freak it. If you really want me to take all the emotional elements out of it, fine, it's still a medical procedure and a potentially dangerous one at that. How does that not bare regulation, and this is coming from someone  opposed to an over-intrusive government whenever and wherever possible?

Out of curiosity, why the hatred for Gorsuch? The funny part was after his Roe answer was that neither side was deterred into either painting him as the next Scalia for better or worse.

As soon as we invade another country or crash the housing market because of pro-choice billionaires let me know. Until then I don't think it's a specific problem we need to focus on.

Since dcm still probably isn't getting it, I'll reiterate: until abortion rights are protected in every state, it's not unreasonable for the federal government to back the largest organization fighting for it.

The entire platform of the guy you voted for was that corporate welfare and the 1 percent are the cause of all of the societal ills of this country.

I'd agree with your second statement if abortion rights weren't so vague a term. I'll just say this, my definition of abortion rights and PP's definition of abortion rights are definitely in contrast to each other. But then, this is what I'm talking about when people don't want to adhere to Roe. They're just as guilty as the Mike Huckadouche's of the world.

It's not unreasonable for the political party that's in the majority in every conceivable way to want to cut the funding of an entity that has a 100 percent donation output to the opposition.


Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1929 on: March 30, 2017, 10:53:16 PM »
So which alternative entity are you in favor of receiving federal funding for abortion?

mj2sexay

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1930 on: March 30, 2017, 11:14:39 PM »
So which alternative entity are you in favor of receiving federal funding for abortion?

So because PP is the only organization thats currently afforded 500 million to bolster their infrastructure, they have cart blanche and can't be replaced? If anything, this dependency is another reason to give them the heave ho. It's 2017. Given 500 million and the private donations that would be sure to flow in the second another company was given that funding and therefore the recognition and responsibility of taking PP's place not to mention the subsequent positive recognition from the media, hollywood etc. you'd have no shortage of volunteers.

Again, my gripe has nothing to do with the issue of abortion as much as the fact that the company that has been entrusted with tax dollars are a bunch of corrupt liars that have now directly gotten involved in our political process. I don't think its a stretch to assume that Kamala Harris's support of legislation that allows non doctors for fucks sake to perform this procedure is directly tied to the fact that she's on their donation list.


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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1931 on: March 30, 2017, 11:26:31 PM »
See this is you spewing stupid excrement. Most women are not poor or on medicaid. If you said see, Republicans hate poor people I'd say you have a much stronger leg to stand on. But planned parenthood is an extremely partisan political organization (that does provide good services for poor communities)

And if Democrats wanted to defund some religious organization that provides services for the community I know you wouldn't be saying OMG the Democrats hate Christians.

Have you realized yet that your hyperpartisanship is a terrible thing ? And that goes for the looney toons on both sides of the aisle
You literally are bipolar.

You said PP does good things.  Its not just poor women.  Its millions of college women as well.  If it does good things, and millions of women use it for yearly screening and family planning, why defund it.  Answer in my previous post.

The government, to the best of my knowledge, does not fund churches, and doesnt tax for profit mega churches either.  That's a debate for another day.

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Fenwyr

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1932 on: March 30, 2017, 11:45:22 PM »
A couple notes.

Badger:  None of the federal funding received by PP is used for abortions.  At least it is illegal for it to be.

DCM:  What makes you feel that PP is corrupt?  The videos you mentioned from a couple years ago was proven to be a scam.  Even far right wingers don't talk about it anymore.

Are they corrupt because they donate publically donated funds to politicians?

Do tell.

Gorsuch.  I would have no problem with him if the Turtle hadn't done something entirely unprecedented with Garland.  Don't talk to me about who said this or that in hypothetical.  It never happened before.

I know the guy hates RvW, gays, womens rights, etc.  Whatever.  What else would you expect from a republican nominee?

The thing that got me, yes I happened to watch some of his hearing, was the truck driver story that Franken brought up.  Not going to type you the transcript.  Also, the way he spoke to the female senator was totally fucked up.

He has a great resume and acts the part, but beyond his expected flaws, he has deeper rooted issues.

With that said, without the Garland situation, I would let the vote go.  No way he would get to 60, but I would not even considered the filibuster.  This is a different story.

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« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 11:54:09 PM by Fenwyr »

dcm1602

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1933 on: March 31, 2017, 05:31:02 AM »
A couple notes.

Badger:  None of the federal funding received by PP is used for abortions.  At least it is illegal for it to be.

DCM:  What makes you feel that PP is corrupt?  The videos you mentioned from a couple years ago was proven to be a scam.  Even far right wingers don't talk about it anymore.

Are they corrupt because they donate publically donated funds to politicians?

Do tell.

Gorsuch.  I would have no problem with him if the Turtle hadn't done something entirely unprecedented with Garland.  Don't talk to me about who said this or that in hypothetical.  It never happened before.

I know the guy hates RvW, gays, womens rights, etc.  Whatever.  What else would you expect from a republican nominee?

The thing that got me, yes I happened to watch some of his hearing, was the truck driver story that Franken brought up.  Not going to type you the transcript.  Also, the way he spoke to the female senator was totally fucked up.

He has a great resume and acts the part, but beyond his expected flaws, he has deeper rooted issues.

With that said, without the Garland situation, I would let the vote go.  No way he would get to 60, but I would not even considered the filibuster.  This is a different story.

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I don't recall saying corrupt, although it's entirely possible I don't remember

mj2sexay

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1934 on: March 31, 2017, 08:34:49 AM »
A couple notes.

Badger:  None of the federal funding received by PP is used for abortions.  At least it is illegal for it to be.

DCM:  What makes you feel that PP is corrupt?  The videos you mentioned from a couple years ago was proven to be a scam.  Even far right wingers don't talk about it anymore.

Are they corrupt because they donate publically donated funds to politicians?

Do tell.

Gorsuch.  I would have no problem with him if the Turtle hadn't done something entirely unprecedented with Garland.  Don't talk to me about who said this or that in hypothetical.  It never happened before.

I know the guy hates RvW, gays, womens rights, etc.  Whatever.  What else would you expect from a republican nominee?

The thing that got me, yes I happened to watch some of his hearing, was the truck driver story that Franken brought up.  Not going to type you the transcript.  Also, the way he spoke to the female senator was totally fucked up.

He has a great resume and acts the part, but beyond his expected flaws, he has deeper rooted issues.

With that said, without the Garland situation, I would let the vote go.  No way he would get to 60, but I would not even considered the filibuster.  This is a different story.

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I know we're in the habit of calling each others posts on politics gigantic blocks of excrement, but this one does really take the cake.

1. According to the Hyde Amendment technically you're correct, but the Forbes article I linked states after a fairly comprehensive analysis that a quarter of abortions are federally subsidized. If someone who's better at forensic accounting (given my math skills, probably anyone on this board) can take a look at that study and refute it, I'm all ears.

2. Those videos by Project Veritas were never proven to be a "scam." They were never doctored or selectively edited as PP would like you to believe. This is a flat out lie.

And yes, but that's only half the reason. As I've stated, its bad enough to donate to politicians with public funds, but these people that are getting cash are actually acting on their conflict of interest. I already went into how deep their fingers are in politics and even worse, functions of what is supposed to be an independent and non-biased judiciary in California.

3. It only didn't happen before because there was no situation in 1992 for Bush to name a new judge with one year left in his Presidency. Or am I not supposed to take Clueless Joe at his word at the time, that denying a confirmation hearing is EXACTLY what they would've done? Again, there is no Constitutional demand that a President has his nomination confirmed. The senate is not a rubber stamp. This is basic civics.

4. There is literally no basis behind this comment, and this is predominantly how you discredit yourself. Hyperbolic rhetoric with no basis in reality will do that. It's like you're not even aware that the swing vote in Obergfell was cast by one of those "RETHUGLIKKKANS OMGG!"

5. This push to blame a judge for attempting to enforce a law on record is an indication that people have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role a justice is supposed to play. They don't make laws. They interpret them. If you have a problem with the letter of the law, in this case blame the assholes that wrote it, not the Judgewho's enforcing it. Or, you know. Doing his job. Judge's only get to strike down what is unconstitutional, not what's dumb. We have an entire legislative process for that. But, when you have sitting senators (Kamala Harris making another appearance, she really is a freaking idiot) saying, "Judge Gorsuch has consistently valued narrow legalisms over real lives." Oh. So in other words you mean as a Judge he's followed the freaking LAW which is exactly what he's supposed to do. Again, this is the system we've had for 250 years. Unless something is blatantly unconstitutional, you don't go through the judiciary to get a law changed, that is the job of the legislative branch.

6. So out of curiosity, if Merrick Garland had gotten his hearing and then been denied confirmation, then what? Is it still "a situation?" Again, what was the logical endgame of that entire mess, besides him getting a denial because no matter how hard you want to believe it, the man is a liberal judge up against a conservative senate majority?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 08:36:51 AM by mj2sexay »

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