Author Topic: U.S. Politics  (Read 646138 times)

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Ignatius J Reilly

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1485 on: September 15, 2016, 08:28:59 AM »
How is wanting to see more women raising their children sexist? Many women actually prefer to be housewives and bring up their kids, but society for some reason has decided that if they don't become a "career woman" than they're excrement.

I didn't see anything sexist in what he said, either.  He never said a woman needed to stay home.  He just said having a father and a mother is ideal.  I think that's wrong as gender roles are now less defined.  However, I also think you're wrong about people thinking career women are excrement.  In fact, I see more of the opposite, that people consider it sad if a woman CHOOSES to have a career with children and a working husband.  They try to be PC and say "Oh, but their nanny is soooo great."  Where I think things have changed is that I see a ton of dads who are more involved with their kids and do the drop off and pick up, etc.  That's probably because people around here have very flexible schedules (I know way more single income homes where mom doesn't work at all than dad), but those seem to be the families that get the most "credit"...indirectly of course.  Wouldn't want to shame people with nannies.  I'm guilty of it too.  I think kids benefit from having family around, be it mom and dad or grandparents or cousins or whatever, but mostly because I see so many terrible nannies.  Thankfully, my wife and I were in a position that one or both of us could always be with the kids, much easier now that they're both in school.

Ignatius J Reilly

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1486 on: September 15, 2016, 08:30:09 AM »
TL;DR  Not sexist, but gay people can make excellent parents and fill mother and father roles without needing one man one woman.

Andrew Ryan

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1487 on: September 15, 2016, 11:02:35 AM »
TL;DR  Not sexist, but gay people can make excellent parents and fill mother and father roles without needing one man one woman.

Insinuating that gay couples can't provide the same quality of care to a child as a heterosexual couples is what I take issue with.

Tommy

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1488 on: September 15, 2016, 11:21:15 AM »

Insinuating that gay couples can't provide the same quality of care to a child as a heterosexual couples is what I take issue with.

I don't think that they can't provide the same quality of care, but you're never going to stop most people from believing that a traditional family upbringing is better.
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Andrew Ryan

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1489 on: September 15, 2016, 12:15:39 PM »
I don't think that they can't provide the same quality of care, but you're never going to stop most people from believing that a traditional family upbringing is better.

Perhaps not but to deny tax benefits based on an arbitrary definition of the "traditional" family (which is what's being proposed) is discriminatory.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 12:17:43 PM by Andrew Ryan »

Tommy

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1490 on: September 15, 2016, 12:18:08 PM »

Perhaps not but to deny tax benefits based on an arbitrary definition of the "traditional" family is discriminatory.

What tax benefits would be denied though? Honest question. Even single fathers can claim child credits on their taxes. I can't imagine being married to a man, which is now legal, could change that. If people are trying to change that then I agree with you. If you're raising a child then you deserve the tax credit.
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Ignatius J Reilly

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1491 on: September 16, 2016, 09:32:15 AM »
I don't think that they can't provide the same quality of care, but you're never going to stop most people from believing that a traditional family upbringing is better.

And yet...

http://www.voanews.com/a/poll-us-catholics-more-accepting-of-non-traditional-families/2942169.html

This is Catholics, but I'd imagine they're less tolerant than society as a whole.  "Most" people don't really think one man one woman both living together is necessarily better.

Johnny English

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1492 on: September 16, 2016, 09:43:13 AM »
I don't think that they can't provide the same quality of care, but you're never going to stop most people from believing that a traditional family upbringing is better.

If that is the case, and I don't necessarily believe it to be, "most people" would be wrong.

Quote
Children in lesbian families felt less parental pressure to conform to gender stereotypes, were less likely to experience their own gender as superior and were more likely to be uncertain about future heterosexual romantic involvement. No differences were found on psychosocial adjustment. Gender typicality, gender contentedness and anticipated future heterosexual romantic involvement were significant predictors of psychosocial adjustment in both family types.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J461v03n02_05

Quote
We conclude that there is a clear consensus in the social science literature indicating that American children living within same-sex parent households fare just as well as those children residing within different-sex parent households over a wide array of well-being measures: academic performance, cognitive development, social development, psychological health, early sexual activity, and substance abuse. Our assessment of the literature is based on credible and methodologically sound studies that compare well-being outcomes of children residing within same-sex and different-sex parent families. Differences that exist in child well-being are largely due to socioeconomic circumstances and family stability.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11113-014-9329-6

Quote
Extensive data available from more than 30 years of research reveal that children raised by gay and lesbian parents have demonstrated resilience with regard to social, psychological, and sexual health despite economic and legal disparities and social stigma. Many studies have demonstrated that children’s well-being is affected much more by their relationships with their parents, their parents’ sense of competence and security, and the presence of social and economic support for the family than by the gender or the sexual orientation of their parents.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15504280802177615
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AlioTheFool

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1493 on: September 16, 2016, 10:56:58 AM »
Wait. So they're saying that a loving home, in a decent community, with better-than-subsistence living is superior to having proper heterosexual parents?!
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Tommy

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1494 on: September 16, 2016, 10:57:21 AM »
If that is the case, and I don't necessarily believe it to be, "most people" would be wrong.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J461v03n02_05

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11113-014-9329-6

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15504280802177615

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with same sex couples raising kids, and I bet they probably do get raised better, but they're comparing a very small sample size against a much much larger one. There are plenty of abusive and terrible parents out there, and I'd venture to say that same-sex couples are more likely to be upper class and well-educated. It's tough to compare the two, but maybe something like comparing same-sex couples against hetero families within similar income and educational levels.

But those statistics aside, I strongly believe that having both a father figure and a mother in any family is important in the development of a child. I don't expect that line of thinking to change anytime soon. And, it is still way too soon for people to rage against those who may think that way. Same-sex couples raising children, historically speaking, is still a very very new thing. It's going to take some time for the majority to accept it.
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Ignatius J Reilly

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1495 on: September 16, 2016, 03:42:37 PM »
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with same sex couples raising kids, and I bet they probably do get raised better, but they're comparing a very small sample size against a much much larger one. There are plenty of abusive and terrible parents out there, and I'd venture to say that same-sex couples are more likely to be upper class and well-educated. It's tough to compare the two, but maybe something like comparing same-sex couples against hetero families within similar income and educational levels.

But those statistics aside, I strongly believe that having both a father figure and a mother in any family is important in the development of a child. I don't expect that line of thinking to change anytime soon. And, it is still way too soon for people to rage against those who may think that way. Same-sex couples raising children, historically speaking, is still a very very new thing. It's going to take some time for the majority to accept it.

You were raised with a father and a mother.  If you turned out this way with the best possible combination of parents, I shudder to think what you would be like in a single parent or gay household.  Patrick Bateman would look upon you with disgust.

Ignatius J Reilly

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1496 on: September 16, 2016, 03:45:25 PM »
And, it is still way too soon for people to rage against those who may think that way. Same-sex couples raising children, historically speaking, is still a very very new thing. It's going to take some time for the majority to accept it.

We already have the majority accepting it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/02/same-sex-adoption_n_5432841.html

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1497 on: September 16, 2016, 03:51:24 PM »
Are you guys discounting the fact that a child is being raised by two faggots?

Miamipuck

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1498 on: September 16, 2016, 04:16:10 PM »
You were raised with a father and a mother.  If you turned out this way with the best possible combination of parents, I shudder to think what you would be like in a single parent or gay household.  Patrick Bateman would look upon you with disgust.

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insanity

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1499 on: October 01, 2016, 05:53:47 AM »
So Tommy how do you feel about human rights because Duterte thinks they're the antithesis of government

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/30/16/duterte-human-rights-is-anti-thesis-of-government

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