Author Topic: U.S. Politics  (Read 646393 times)

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Tommy

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1395 on: August 23, 2016, 11:27:51 PM »
I picked computer science because we were at the height of the dotcom bubble, then I realized I hated that excrement and sucked at it, so just picked the easiest courses to graduate. Double major in Econ and East Asian studies yo.
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insanity

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1396 on: August 24, 2016, 06:51:56 AM »
Because it goes back to Pope's absolutely correct point that so many kids at 18 or 19 don't have a clue what they want to do, and quite understandably, so it make sense to do a bunch of things - many of which won't necessarily be that interesting or relevant to what they end up doing - in order to find the one or two things that really do flick their switch, and give them a focus and direction. Just because you knew what you wanted to do doesn't mean that others do, and it doesn't make them better off or worse than you. Just different.

And because it goes back to Alio's also absolutely correct point that even if you do end up following your chosen path you don't know what other apparently completely unconnected skills are going to come in useful in later life and in future roles, and just because Alio didn't pay attention in accounting and you didn't care about your electives doesn't mean that you won't need them in the future and regret not paying attention just like Alio, nor does it mean that others didn't pay attention and won't value them at some point in the future.

Education for education's sake is good. We need to stop tying everything that everyone does, especially kids in their late teens and early twenties, into hardline capitalistic values. Education in general makes people smarter, more inquisitive, more interesting and more rounded. It's a thing that as a society we should be encouraging and paying for.

Your ideologies make sense, but in real life it doesn't really work that way.

1.  Unless you want to be a doctor or an engineer, when you go to college you're paying for a diploma, not the information you learn.  Most of what you learn in the classroom isn't important.

2.  The good Universities in America cost 10s of thousands of dollars a year.  If I only need to take 60 credits of courses relating to my major, making me take another 60 credits in random subjects in order to graduate is asinine if the end result is that I need to pay an extra $30k-$60k.  I'm not paying the University to be my life coach and encourage me to learn about African American studies or Greek Mythology.  I'm paying to "learn" how to perform a trade.

3.  If you're going to school and don't have some semblance of what you want to do with your life, you shouldn't be in college.  I didn't know what I wanted to do and I wasted a good chunk of my time and money with classes I didn't want, need, or care about.  There are millions of kids every year who do the same.  I understand that you need a degree to get a job in the U.S. but getting a degree to have a degree seems utterly pointless in my eyes.  This idea really needs to change.

4.  Nobody who was an econ major took one Women's studies class and decided they wanted to study the history of woman over the past 200 years

dcm1602

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1397 on: August 24, 2016, 08:13:28 AM »
I mean there's a degree to which you're both right. I think the far out there nonsense with zero practical use is shitty and a waste.  Ie like you said woman's studys music history.

But then there's also practical stuff that has a wider application. Like accounting, math, English/writing,  economics.   I think as long as the "other stuff"  offers real world application it can be a very good thing.  When it doesn't, I think more often than not it's a poor use of one's money.

AlioTheFool

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1398 on: August 24, 2016, 09:18:42 AM »
I agree that learning about a broad range of topics is imporant for personl growth, im paying for a degree ina particular field.  I shouldnt have to pay thousands of dollars for a gym class.  Im perfectly capable of reading up on historical figures or learning about electrical engineering on my own time.

I understand your point. Still, as I've said, there are scientific studies that show that taking the breadth of courses actually improves you not only as a student but as a future member of the workforce.

Also, let's be honest. The vast majority of people would absolutely not pick up a history book if not forced to by their coursework.

Your ideologies make sense, but in real life it doesn't really work that way.

1.  Unless you want to be a doctor or an engineer, when you go to college you're paying for a diploma, not the information you learn.  Most of what you learn in the classroom isn't important.

This is completely true, and actually supports my point better than yours.

Part of the appeal to corporate America of a "well-rounded" student is the ability to approach problems in creative "outside the box" ways. You learn this in college by being exposed to material (and professors) with varied topics and methodologies. Again, if you were pigeonholed to a specific set of limited knowledge you'd have far less basis to think about answers from a different point of view from everyone who came before you.

College isn't about teaching you answers. It's about learning how to come up with your own.

2.  The good Universities in America cost 10s of thousands of dollars a year.  If I only need to take 60 credits of courses relating to my major, making me take another 60 credits in random subjects in order to graduate is asinine if the end result is that I need to pay an extra $30k-$60k.  I'm not paying the University to be my life coach and encourage me to learn about African American studies or Greek Mythology.  I'm paying to "learn" how to perform a trade.

If all you want is to learn a "trade" then there are trade schools in ample supply. Those are careers where there is generally not much "outside the box" problem solving. Replacing an alternator is a mechanical procedure. Taking blood in a physician's office doesn't allow a PA much in the way of alternative methods.

3.  If you're going to school and don't have some semblance of what you want to do with your life, you shouldn't be in college.  I didn't know what I wanted to do and I wasted a good chunk of my time and money with classes I didn't want, need, or care about.  There are millions of kids every year who do the same.  I understand that you need a degree to get a job in the U.S. but getting a degree to have a degree seems utterly pointless in my eyes.  This idea really needs to change.

No, it doesn't. We're no longer a manufacturing or farming society. We need people who can work at desks or in laboratories. The problem isn't that a college wasted someone's money, it's that individuals aren't valuing the critical importance of going to college in contemporary American society.

A bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. You can either choose to accept that, or be really good at smiling while asking if I'd like medium or large fries with my order. A high school diploma wasn't required when my parents dropped out. Times change.

4.  Nobody who was an econ major took one Women's studies class and decided they wanted to study the history of woman over the past 200 years

But maybe that professor taught a student a new appreciation for women's issues. Maybe that inspired that econ major to study the economic impact of lower salaries for women. Maybe that study leads to a woman someday making the same money with the same respect as her male peers. Maybe that woman develops the cure to liver cancer thanks to receiving the same kind of funding her male peers receive.

That's the point of higher education. To create a better society with better overall knowledge and understanding of the world we live in.
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Ignatius J Reilly

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1399 on: August 24, 2016, 09:38:33 AM »
Your school had a gym class requirement?  Are you sure you weren't in a high school?

AlioTheFool

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1400 on: August 24, 2016, 09:43:32 AM »
Your school had a gym class requirement?  Are you sure you weren't in a high school?

I don't know about other places, but in NY and Massachusetts physical fitness is a requirement for graduation.
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Ignatius J Reilly

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1401 on: August 24, 2016, 09:51:28 AM »
Your ideologies make sense, but in real life it doesn't really work that way.

1.  Unless you want to be a doctor or an engineer, when you go to college you're paying for a diploma, not the information you learn.  Most of what you learn in the classroom isn't important.

That's incredibly debatable.

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2.  The good Universities in America cost 10s of thousands of dollars a year.  If I only need to take 60 credits of courses relating to my major, making me take another 60 credits in random subjects in order to graduate is asinine if the end result is that I need to pay an extra $30k-$60k.  I'm not paying the University to be my life coach and encourage me to learn about African American studies or Greek Mythology.  I'm paying to "learn" how to perform a trade.

The idea is to identify areas of study that actually can benefit you later in life by changing the way that you think and the logical process.  You shouldn't have to take courses in African American studies or Greek Mythology, but those are examples of course offerings in areas that students absolutely should study in order to benefit their thought processes.  As was said later in the thread, there's absolutely a benefit.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/why-study-humanities-what-i-tell-engineering-freshmen/

Quote
3.  If you're going to school and don't have some semblance of what you want to do with your life, you shouldn't be in college.  I didn't know what I wanted to do and I wasted a good chunk of my time and money with classes I didn't want, need, or care about.  There are millions of kids every year who do the same.  I understand that you need a degree to get a job in the U.S. but getting a degree to have a degree seems utterly pointless in my eyes.  This idea really needs to change.

I agree and disagree.  Disagree with the first part, that you need to have your life planned out before even going to college.  If you have a demonstrated intellectual capability and work ethic but aren't sure what to do quite yet, you should absolutely be in college improving your mode of thinking and narrowing your life goals.

However, I also agree it's retarded that we expect people to have a degree for most of the jobs in this country.  We need more vocational training in high school.  Use internships in high school as a way to learn trades while providing the needed coursework as well.  Too many kids take 5 classes in high school when a 6th could offer trade courses and then turn into on the job learning as seniors.  We then funnel those kids into college by telling them it's the necessary next step.  In most countries, a high school diploma is sufficient for a lot of the jobs we require a college diploma for here.  You don't need broad based coursework (or any, really) to be an office manager.

Quote
4.  Nobody who was an econ major took one Women's studies class and decided they wanted to study the history of woman over the past 200 years

I'm sure someone did.  I knew a guy in college who was Pre Med and a HumBio major.  He took a medieval studies course and switched majors to Medieval Studies.  Still went to Harvard Med School.  Shockingly enough, as long as you take the necessary prereq work, a lot of grad schools value 'fuzzy' degrees, just as a lot of tech companies value employees who have a broad educational background.  There are modes of learning that are taught by unrelated coursework.  As I found out recently, Physics majors and PhDs are often targeted by economic consulting firms because of the demonstrated benefit.  It may not make sense, and the actual course content may not help, but the course itself absolutely does in most situations.

Ignatius J Reilly

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1402 on: August 24, 2016, 09:51:45 AM »
I don't know about other places, but in NY and Massachusetts physical fitness is a requirement for graduation.

That's ridiculous.

bojanglesman

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1403 on: August 24, 2016, 10:03:05 AM »
My university had a requirement that you had to take 2 credit hours of phys ed, one of which had to be a class called PE 100, which required you to (by the end of the course) either be able to run/walk 3 miles in less than 30 minutes or be able to jog without walking for 30 minutes regardless of pace.  You also had to meet some weight lifting goals that I can't remember.  I don't know if that's still the case.  Probably not.

My wife's university required two PE courses plus they had to pass a swimming test in order to graduate.  The swimming test part was taken away in recent years, but it had been part of the graduation requirement since my parents went there in the 60's.  It was funny because my wife was in the exercise sports science department and had to help students learn to swim that couldn't pass the test.  She said she had to help quite a few large athletes (linemen on the football team) that couldn't swim.  She said some of them were borderline crying due to fear of the water.

Both are large public universities in NC. 

I think PE courses are a good thing for all students to take, but I just don't know how you could enforce the requirement these days with the way lawsuits are running rampant.  To me, it's no different than everyone having to take courses in the English Department when you are a Math major.  BTW I think everyone should have to take some classes outside their path of study.  I didn't particularly enjoy taking Sociology and Public Speaking as courses in college, but I'm probably better off for having done it. 

The issue with PE is that there are people with physical disabilities that may have trouble with certain things in order to pass, not to mention there are grossly obese people that can't even watch someone run without gasping for air.  I don't know how to design a phys. ed. course that allows everyone a reasonable chance at passing, while still ensuring everyone has to actually, you know, DO something.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 10:22:51 AM by bojanglesman »

dcm1602

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1404 on: August 24, 2016, 10:14:59 AM »
Your school had a gym class requirement?  Are you sure you weren't in a high school?

Community colleges do that

Usually ones that people refer to as 13th grade

I know people who went to Suffolk community college and had to take like gym and tennis and retarded excrement

AlioTheFool

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1405 on: August 24, 2016, 10:15:30 AM »
That's ridiculous.

I can't really argue that, but the requirement is there like it or not. It's probably the mentality that "if we force you into good habits you'll carry them with you afterward."
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Ignatius J Reilly

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1406 on: August 24, 2016, 04:03:52 PM »
People took PE classes when I was in school, but it was like an extra thing just to have the activity.  Most people did golf or tennis just to get the instruction.  It wasn't a requirement.  I don't get the requirement part.  The classes didn't count toward your unit requirement.  They were just activities.

bojanglesman

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1407 on: August 24, 2016, 04:05:38 PM »
People took PE classes when I was in school, but it was like an extra thing just to have the activity.  Most people did golf or tennis just to get the instruction.  It wasn't a requirement.  I don't get the requirement part.  The classes didn't count toward your unit requirement.  They were just activities.

Damn, I don't think I'd do that.

bojanglesman

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1408 on: August 24, 2016, 04:07:55 PM »
Iggy, do you think PE should be a requirement for kids in grade school and high school?

Badger

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #1409 on: August 24, 2016, 04:27:44 PM »
Your school had a gym class requirement?  Are you sure you weren't in a high school?
So did mine (state school) and my wife's (private college).

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