U.S. Politics

[Johnny English]

Somebody's talent and passion doesn't mean anybody should have to fund it.

And if it was a "significant benefit"  to society, then they would get paid more.

And if that's what you say is truly the case, then these people should be more economical and go to inexpensive state schools that are more affordable.

None of that is true, but your world view is so incredibly narrow and lacking in experience of the real world that this is probably a somewhat pointless discussion.

[dcm1602]

None of that is true, but your world view is so incredibly narrow and lacking in experience of the real world that this is probably a somewhat pointless discussion.

None of that's true? So people should have to fund others talent and passion?

And going to state schools to be more economical for low paying degrees isn't a good idea?

You just brush everything off with "none of that is true"  nonsense.

If you want to make the argument that the pay thing is wrong, you can make a solid argument about that. And I can just as easily make the argument with basic economic concepts against it.

Regardless I'm not sure why people shouldn't be allowed to make their own decisions and bare responsibility for them.

I have no objections whatsoever in expanding state schools to make more affordable options and to keep private schools pricing competitive. But to say people should be able to make excrement financial decisions and have everybody else bail them out is stupid hippie garbage.

I'll also point out thst this countries deficit is fucked as excrement, and these ideas just substantially add to it

[SixFeetDeep]

I actually agree with dcm. Not all degrees are useful in terms of "bettering society" and some we would never see even a slight financial return on what we paid into. Just curious, free education would extend to vocational and technical schools, too, right?


The real problem is that the price of a college education is ludicrous. maybe more people could afford degrees if universities weren't allowed to charge exorbitant prices?

[Tommy]

Student loan reform seems like a good idea all of a sudden... But then you will rant about the people who didn't get a useful enough degree for your liking.

What would you propose in terms of student loan reform?

[Johnny English]

If you want to make an argument for controlling the cost of education such that it's sensibly accessible to all then you'll not get any resistance from me. DCM's original point was that if someone is saddled with student loans that they can't afford to pay back then their degree wasn't worthwhile, meaning that markets set the value of education which I think is ridiculous.

[Tommy]

A buddy of mine and his wife had to pay close to $1,000 a month for his dumb wife's (now ex) stupid student loans for her drama degree at some expensive college in CT. She's now an account manager at some PR firm making dick. But she does some improv in her spare time!

[dcm1602]

I actually agree with dcm. Not all degrees are useful in terms of "bettering society" and some we would never see even a slight financial return on what we paid into. Just curious, free education would extend to vocational and technical schools, too, right?


The real problem is that the price of a college education is ludicrous. maybe more people could afford degrees if universities weren't allowed to charge exorbitant prices?

More state schools is an easy fix.

They're cheaper bringing down prices, and it keeps private schools honest and forces them to be more competitive. Whether that's pricing or offering a superior education.

[Pope]

I think it'd be worthwhile to institute a community college type two-year bridge school that is state/federally funded. It would teach high school graduates the core courses they need for most programs at which point they can choose to pursue a specific field at a university.

If there are students that graduate high school and are dead-set on studying law, engineering, medicine, etc they still have the option to do so but a general continuing education program would benefit those with no career-path that are pushed to go to college just because they are supposed to.

I just think it's stupid to have 17/18 year olds pick their degree and field of work for the rest of their lives at such a young age.

[AlioTheFool]

I think it'd be worthwhile to institute a community college type two-year bridge school that is state/federally funded. It would teach high school graduates the core courses they need for most programs at which point they can choose to pursue a specific field at a university.

If there are students that graduate high school and are dead-set on studying law, engineering, medicine, etc they still have the option to do so but a general continuing education program would benefit those with no career-path that are pushed to go to college just because they are supposed to.

I just think it's stupid to have 17/18 year olds pick their degree and field of work for the rest of their lives at such a young age.

My older kids both go to Boston University. BU's curriculum demands that unless you go in specifically pre-med or engineering (and a couple of others), you enter as a student of the College of General Studies. For the first 2 years you don't declare a major or take the coursework--you focus on a well-rounded education that exposes you to a broad base of disciplines while you figure out what you want to do with your life.

My understanding is that it's becoming a standard in a lot of places today. It only makes sense. Like you said, a 17-18 year old doesn't generally know what they want to do with their lives.

I have a specific problem with student loans. It's not that they should be forgiven--they should be interest free. I understand banks wouldn't want to take the risk (and would have no incentive to) so let the federal government give out interest-free loans. And the student shouldn't need to begin payments until 6 years after the loan amount was taken (so 2 years after graduation to begin paying back freshman year). The idea that interest is accruing before a student even takes his first class is ridiculous.

[JFIF]

My older kids both go to Boston University. BU's curriculum demands that unless you go in specifically pre-med or engineering (and a couple of others), you enter as a student of the College of General Studies. For the first 2 years you don't declare a major or take the coursework--you focus on a well-rounded education that exposes you to a broad base of disciplines while you figure out what you want to do with your life.

My understanding is that it's becoming a standard in a lot of places today. It only makes sense. Like you said, a 17-18 year old doesn't generally know what they want to do with their lives.

I have a specific problem with student loans. It's not that they should be forgiven--they should be interest free. I understand banks wouldn't want to take the risk (and would have no incentive to) so let the federal government give out interest-free loans. And the student shouldn't need to begin payments until 6 years after the loan amount was taken (so 2 years after graduation to begin paying back freshman year). The idea that interest is accruing before a student even takes his first class is ridiculous.

AlioTheFossil

[AlioTheFool]

AlioTheFossil

Hahahaha, I like that.

I'm only 41 though.

[JFIF]

Hahahaha, I like that.

I'm only 41 though.

I always thought you were in that age range, but the kids in college thing threw me off so I added an extra 10 years mentally.

[MBGreen]

Hahahaha, I like that.

I'm only 41 though.

Now i feel old.


EDIT: I thought you were in your 50s also...with kids being in University.

[ukilledkenny]

What would you propose in terms of student loan reform?

To immediately shut DCM up about no drs I would say do what they do with some other degrees. Get your med degree and then go work in a place identified to have a big need for whatever amount of time, 5-10 years, and then the loans are forgiven. Do that with a bunch more degrees that society needs too.

Or just become a civilized country and realize we already eat the cost of the people who insist on a degree that they can't repay their loans with. Everyone can point to whatever person they know was nieve and just wanted to study whatever excrement they found interesting and thought they could figure out the job situation after the fact. Hell, I'm one of them but I have managed to have a decent "useful" job since I graduated.

We aren't really talking usefulness here anyway we are talking high wages. From the past 6 months of your posts you have pretty much told us you lie to other companies to sell some crappy business software. That doesn't fit my definition of useful to society but you get paid an assload for it anyway.

[AlioTheFool]

I always thought you were in that age range, but the kids in college thing threw me off so I added an extra 10 years mentally.

Now i feel old.

EDIT: I thought you were in your 50s also...with kids being in University.

Yeah, I started early. My wife was 18 when she had my oldest. I was a month and a half shy of 23 the day we got married. We'll be really young grandparents.

To immediately shut DCM up about no drs I would say do what they do with some other degrees. Get your med degree and then go work in a place identified to have a big need for whatever amount of time, 5-10 years, and then the loans are forgiven. Do that with a bunch more degrees that society needs too.

Or just become a civilized country and realize we already eat the cost of the people who insist on a degree that they can't repay their loans with.

I'm not a big fan of loan forgiveness, but forgiveness in exchange for service would be okay to me. You'd still be paying it back, just not with the exchange of currency.