U.S. Politics

[Ignatius J Reilly]

^We used to have that with Hispanic workers in the Bracero program.  It was great.

[Johnny English]

Demonizing? They're breaking the law. Both the people who hire and the illegal immigrants themselves. It's not easy. Sure you can require that all contractors employ citizens or resident aliens, or you can police the border where the influx of immigrants are coming from. If I'm a struggling landscaping company, and there's an excess of illegals waiting around begging for low income work, it's hard to "do the right thing" and hire much more expensive unskilled labor. They're already here, and more and more are coming every day. You can legislate the hell out of the demand, but the demand will remain as long as the supply is plentiful and cheap. You make matters even worse by increasing minimum wage and requiring health benefits etc.

I didn't say anything about legislation, I said that American employers are breaking the social contract (as well as probably a whole bunch of existing laws). Illegal immigration goes away when illegal employment goes away. Blaming immigrants for taking illegal jobs is like blaming money for bank robberies.

Japan is a good example of how immigration should be handled. Granted they benefit from being an island nation and where non-Japanese stick out like sore thumbs, but the country has enjoyed low income inequality and full employment for decades, all that despite a minimum wage of $5.50 to $7/hr. How? Because they don't have streams of low cost labor running around. They actually have the reverse problem: they need workers, and are running out of unskilled labor. How do they solve it? They have work programs on contract. Take hundreds of unskilled laborers from SE Asia, and assign them to a company for a year or so. When they're done, they go back. They get criticized for not just opening up their borders and letting anyone in, even getting called racist, but they're going about it in the absolute right way.

So what you're saying is that apart from the fact that Japan is absolutely nothing like America in a number of fundamental ways, America should try and be like Japan? Apart from the fact that I'm male and short and not very pretty, I should totally try and do what Kim Kardashian has done because then I'd be rich and famous and everything would be peachy.

[Miamipuck]

What blows my mind is that you have people who have no problem with illegal immigration, and at the same time complain about low wages. Both are closely related. If you dilute the unskilled labor market with illegal immigrants, then that puts a hell of a lot of downward pressure on wages.

I want immigrants coming to this country. Sure it's with stipulations and such but the people that want to come here, work and prosper make this country a better place, probably better than what I have made it. My stipulations aren't that tough either, they're what my ancestors did. I think if you come to this country you should learn English and if you want to stay you should try and become a naturalized citizen. It's my main problem with the banana republic I live in down here, there are a lot of people of Hispanic descent that refuse to learn English or frankly really do not have to. If that makes me a racist so be it.

Did you miss the post where Puck said that it's only an issue because of the type of people who are mainly coming here?

Yeah I firmly believe there are a lot of people that don't like Mexicans coming here. You can not look at me a with a straight face and say a lot of people don't think that way.

Well, that's a silly thing to say.  50 years ago there was little illegal immigration from Europe.  The numbers aren't even close to what they are today.  We permitted high numbers of random immigration when we had a need for it thanks to the rapid explosion of industry.  Hell, 52 years ago we still had the Bracero program which brought Mexicans here in the easiest manner possible and allowed them to return home freely.  We closed things off when we didn't have the resources.  We talk about Mexicans now because insane numbers come here without that demonstrated need for them and they're easy to deport because they share a border.  It's a poor comparison because it was an entirely different time for reasons that have nothing to do with race.

Well I had a tough night I already apologized to Tommy. However, the 50 years ago thing was mainly that people don't like the mix of immigrants today. I don't like the fact that American's act so entitled about having the best country in the world and don't let people come here that are dying to better themselves because frankly it is the best country in the world in many respects.

I know plenty of Indians for instance that go to tech schools in India and want to come here and have to work odd jobs and get lucky to get a visa/green card. I know of Dr.'s, lawyers accountants from other places that are threatened with deportation etc. from all over the world. I think that's freaking insane. I know the security issues with respect to allowing immigrants from certain area's.

Think of this, there's a sizable Iranian immigrant population in this country and as a group they're pretty successful. You can point to many of them being Christian/Jewish and not Muslim and you would be correct. I have Pakistani freinds, one was a Dr. at 18, freaking Doogie Quarashi Houser.

Largely, I am saying not letting people that want to come here and prosper is cutting our nose to spite our face.


That probably has nothing to do with illegal immigration.

[Tommy]

Funny how JE has no problem comparing America's health care system with other countries, but you bring up a comparison to support an argument against his, and suddenly it's ridiculous.

[Johnny English]

Funny how JE has no problem comparing America's health care system with other countries, but you bring up a comparison to support an argument against his, and suddenly it's ridiculous.

I think I've been at pains on numerous occasions to state that it's obvious that America couldn't very easily follow any kind of state-owned healthcare model because that ship has long since sailed onto the seas of private ownership, just as I have also fully acknowledged that the issue of gun control isn't as easy to fix as it was elsewhere by virtue of the number of guns in existence in the country. My point on both of those issues is that an inability to achieve optimum outcome overnight shouldn't mean throwing ones' hands in the air and saying "freak it".

[Badger]

Apart from the fact that I'm male and short and not very pretty, I should totally try and do what Kim Kardashian has done because then I'd be rich and famous and everything would be peachy.

I just sent you Ray J's number, check your PMs.

[Johnny English]

Ohio is pissed.

[Tommy]

Ohio is pissed.

I don't really understand why he's pushing for the change.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

I don't really understand why he's pushing for the change.

It should have been changed 40 years ago.  The only reason it wasn't changed is that Ohio pitched a fit.  It got the name because some random guy decided to start calling it Mt Mckinley after a presidential candidate and it stuck.  It took 20 years before the US recognized the name, and even then likely only because McKinley was an assassination victim.  He wasn't a memorable president other than that, and he has absolutely nothing to do with Alaska.  The actual people of the state never liked it, so they've been trying to get it fixed ever since.

[ukilledkenny]

I think I've been at pains on numerous occasions to state that it's obvious that America couldn't very easily follow any kind of state-owned healthcare model because that ship has long since sailed onto the seas of private ownership, just as I have also fully acknowledged that the issue of gun control isn't as easy to fix as it was elsewhere by virtue of the number of guns in existence in the country. My point on both of those issues is that an inability to achieve optimum outcome overnight shouldn't mean throwing ones' hands in the air and saying "freak it".

Yes, 100% this. The conservative playbook for at least the last 8 years is basically acknowledging a problem might exist but it's really really hard to fix so just leave it.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

I want to take some popcorn down to Kentucky and watch the shitstorm at the Rowan County Clerk's office.  This is getting good.

[bojanglesman]

I want to take some popcorn down to Kentucky and watch the shitstorm at the Rowan County Clerk's office.  This is getting good.

It is hilarious.  I feel bad for that gay couple, but I can't help laughing at the brainwashed clerk.  Funny that she has been married 4 times to 3 different men and is refusing to marry someone else.

[Badger]

I'm not convinced she isn't an elaborate Rachel Dratch character.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

It is hilarious.  I feel bad for that gay couple, but I can't help laughing at the brainwashed clerk.  Funny that she has been married 4 times to 3 different men and is refusing to marry someone else.

Don't feel too bad for the gay couple.  The Supreme Court ruling is in full effect, and it takes time for things to adjust.  As pissed as they are, they feel like they're making a difference.  This is much more enjoyable because of the shitshow it's going to inspire on both sides of the political debate.

[Badger]

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