Author Topic: I hate Pro Football Focus  (Read 34489 times)

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dcm1602

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2014, 07:29:10 PM »
Considering that all the other players with pass ratings are guards and tackles and excrement.

I assume that they're following/calculating something different

SixFeetDeep

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2016, 12:31:19 PM »
Quote
Bowman led the NFL with 154 tackles this season despite receiving a negative grade from Pro Football Focus.
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bojanglesman

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2016, 12:37:43 PM »
I think tackles are a bit of an overrated stat.  If you have a shitty d-line, your second level guys are going to get more shots at tackles.  Doesn't make them better.  I think they mean something, but how much is anyone's guess.  Maybe missed tackles or some sort of ratio of tackles to total chances would mean more.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 12:39:19 PM by bojanglesman »

Heismanberg

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2016, 01:30:37 PM »
PFF sucks
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SixFeetDeep

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2016, 04:03:43 PM »
I think tackles are a bit of an overrated stat.  If you have a shitty d-line, your second level guys are going to get more shots at tackles.  Doesn't make them better.  I think they mean something, but how much is anyone's guess.  Maybe missed tackles or some sort of ratio of tackles to total chances would mean more.


All I know is bowman is a good linebacker and should at least have a positive grade. Maybe he was slowed down this year coming back from injury but the tackles were there and he made the pro bowl.
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bojanglesman

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2016, 05:46:29 PM »
All I know is bowman is a good linebacker and should at least have a positive grade. Maybe he was slowed down this year coming back from injury but the tackles were there and he made the pro bowl.
Yeah but still.

bojanglesman

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2016, 09:11:06 AM »
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/feature/25577288/in-the-line-of-fire

Article about O-lineman being bashed by outsiders.  Here's a good blurb from o-linemen about why PFF isn't a good barometer for rating them.  I didn't know Cris Collinsworth was an owner of PFF.

Quote
Let's talk about Pro Football Focus since it is a group that grades players -- and you guys -- and it is featured on Sunday Night Football in large part because Cris Collinsworth is an owner. Assignment-wise, can they possibly know what your assignment is on each play?

Massie: No. They don't know the play. They don't know what each lineman has to do.

Long: If you turn on the film, you can see it's a zone concept. But there may be a Bob concept in there. There may be a wham concept in there. There may be we're booking this guy. We're not going to block him. But on film, it might look like Bobby Massie didn't even touch the guy. When in reality, Bobby went and got the linebacker and put him on the safety. And Cris Collinsworth doesn't know that.

Richburg: We were talking about when a running back gives up a sack that it's automatically our fault because nobody knows what the assignment is. If the quarterback is down, it's our fault.

Could you watch each other's tape and know what the assignments should be?

Long: Probably not because I am not in their O-line room.


Warmack: People come across as very knowledgeable about things they don't know to make their jobs more important in value. Nobody wants to ask questions anymore to try and learn from somebody who actually does the job themselves. I feel like there's a lot of arrogance in the field like they come across as they know when they've never played the position at all. If somebody asked them if they played the position at all, they would be offended by it.

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2016, 10:01:23 AM »
Wasn't there a time when PFF was actually taken seriously? I just never understood how you could apply sabemetrics-style ratings for football players when there are an insane number of factors that affect even the simplest of plays.
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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2016, 10:31:36 AM »
Wasn't there a time when PFF was actually taken seriously? I just never understood how you could apply sabemetrics-style ratings for football players when there are an insane number of factors that affect even the simplest of plays.

It was. It was the first to apply #'s to performances and such and I think in the beginning the graders were better. Now their ratings are all over the place and tough to gauge what the freak they're looking at.
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Heismanberg

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2016, 11:24:20 AM »
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/feature/25577288/in-the-line-of-fire

Article about O-lineman being bashed by outsiders.  Here's a good blurb from o-linemen about why PFF isn't a good barometer for rating them.  I didn't know Cris Collinsworth was an owner of PFF.


I have been saying this stuff for years.  There's no possible way they can accurately grade performances because they do not know the plays, the assignments, or the game.
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Cane

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2016, 08:55:19 PM »
I have been saying this stuff for years.  There's no possible way they can accurately grade performances because they do not know the plays, the assignments, or the game.

And the speed that they produce their results just doesn't make sense.  Like, how many people do you need watching each film to produce legit, comprehensive reports in 3 days?  Especially when they say that everything is "triple checked by the experts on staff." 

A single play in a single game takes how long to break down?  Let's do some unnecessary math.

You have 22 players, each being evaluated on every snap, so that means you have to watch each guy probably what, three times minimum?  Let's say two guys in the room, one O and one D, so 33 views per play.  BUT, before one could even do that he needs to get the offensive and defensive formations, the coverage, stunts, the blocking scheme, the routes, and the players on the field.  To get all of that we're probably talking watching the plays an additional 4 or so times if you have multiple people in the room.  So we're now looking at a very conservative estimate of 35 views per snap.  Factor in that each offense runs an average of about 65 plays per game, times two teams, and we need 4550 views per game.  Not a bad day's work, especially when each play probably takes about seven seconds, so each game takes about nine hours to review for two people (factoring in a short pee break). 

GTFO with all of that.

JFIF

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2016, 04:07:08 PM »
And the speed that they produce their results just doesn't make sense.  Like, how many people do you need watching each film to produce legit, comprehensive reports in 3 days?  Especially when they say that everything is "triple checked by the experts on staff." 

A single play in a single game takes how long to break down?  Let's do some unnecessary math.

You have 22 players, each being evaluated on every snap, so that means you have to watch each guy probably what, three times minimum?  Let's say two guys in the room, one O and one D, so 33 views per play.  BUT, before one could even do that he needs to get the offensive and defensive formations, the coverage, stunts, the blocking scheme, the routes, and the players on the field.  To get all of that we're probably talking watching the plays an additional 4 or so times if you have multiple people in the room.  So we're now looking at a very conservative estimate of 35 views per snap.  Factor in that each offense runs an average of about 65 plays per game, times two teams, and we need 4550 views per game.  Not a bad day's work, especially when each play probably takes about seven seconds, so each game takes about nine hours to review for two people (factoring in a short pee break). 

GTFO with all of that.


At this point, I imagine those PFF people do that full time.

Heismanberg

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2016, 04:48:33 PM »
Even if they are doing it full time, there's no way they can accurately grade the positions.
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ons

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2016, 12:21:58 PM »
And even if they have multiple experts working full time, and had a good knowledge of the schemes, 10 different people will grade the same play ten different ways for each position - professional scouts are sure to pick up on different things that each player does and grade them differently. Detailed scouting reports without number grades attached would actually be useful - the number grades make PFF worse than worthless.

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Re: I hate Pro Football Focus
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2016, 06:54:00 AM »
A cross-dressing limey poofter

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