Author Topic: #BlackLivesMatter  (Read 349599 times)

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Heismanberg

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2014, 11:11:09 AM »
the shortest point i can make is you cant absolve the white power structure this country operates on, and you cant absolve the black communities responsibility to its youth to make the extra effort to overcome the previous point.

If the kid was white and got shot, what would that black community of Ferguson be doing right now? 
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Coach K

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2014, 11:11:22 AM »
I didn't say that.  He was a suspect in a crime, not some innocent kid walking down the street minding his own business.

The police officer did not handle this the right way at all, but if Brown punched him in the face during a possible arrest, he had every right to pull his firearm.

so why even give out tazers?

i still disagree with that logic. how much of a hoo-ha are you to where you have a perfectly capable tool of subduing someone in a non lethal way and your first resort is insta death?

and even if he pulled his firearm, what seems indisputable at this point is that a struggle occurred, Brown was hit by a bullet, and attempted to surrender.  you apprehend, now if brown had drawn a weapon , fine.

im not going to turn this into Zimmerman and go out of my way to debate self moral semantics on this isolated incident. the problem inherently lies in the system.  ill just copy/paste some excrement from facebook cause im too gone right now to start typing dissertations.

Badger

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2014, 11:12:10 AM »
The police have reacted to this situation in exactly the worst possible way, barring them shooting and killing another unarmed civilian. It's pretty easy to not look like violent crazy assholes, and to make looters look terrible. But instead they show up in ridiculous outfits, poiting weapons at civilians with their fingers on their triggers, shoot rubber bullets at female pastors praying for peace, arrest journalists and fire tear gas at journalists. Their credibility is completely destroyed - regardless of the details of the case, they've fucked things up for themselves and painted huge targets on their backs.

This bears repeating.

Heismanberg

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2014, 11:13:32 AM »
If Brown was responsible for the robbery, he still shouldn't be dead.  He should have been tased or sprayed and then taken to a correctional facility.  I don't know what happened with the struggle in/near the vehicle.  I don't know if the officer had a taser on his person. 

The cop didn't handle this well and will likely lose his job, but if he was punched in the face and felt threatened, then it's OK for him to shoot to protect himself.  Multiple shots fired from a distance is the issue here. 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 11:18:46 AM by Heismanberg »
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Heismanberg

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2014, 11:18:05 AM »
so why even give out tazers?

i still disagree with that logic. how much of a hoo-ha are you to where you have a perfectly capable tool of subduing someone in a non lethal way and your first resort is insta death?

and even if he pulled his firearm, what seems indisputable at this point is that a struggle occurred, Brown was hit by a bullet, and attempted to surrender.  you apprehend, now if brown had drawn a weapon , fine.

Did the officer have a taser or spray?  We don't know.

What happened when Brown was reaching inside of the police car and struggling with the officer?  Was he going for his gun or did he just punch him in the face to get away? 

We do not know yet. 

Like I just said, the multiple shots fired from a distance that ended Brown's life are the main issue to me right now. 

We don't even know if the kid had his hands up - a woman in an upstairs window and another woman fumbling with her phone are the people saying that.  He could have been digging around in his pockets trying to find the cigars. 

Quote
im not going to turn this into Zimmerman and go out of my way to debate self moral semantics on this isolated incident. the problem inherently lies in the system.  ill just copy/paste some excrement from facebook cause im too gone right now to start typing dissertations.

I don't want to get into Zimmerman either, because I'll pee some people off by siding with Zimmerman. 
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Coach K

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2014, 11:18:08 AM »
If the kid was white and got shot, what would that black community of Ferguson be doing right now?

so your answer is to match supposed apathy with more apathy , when the white community is on the winning side of history already? seems pretty naive to me. im pretty sure white america isnt in as dire need of unity or help.

white people are far more taken care of and if we cant agree there, then there will be no productive dialogue to be had. their SHOULD be to take care of themselves first and actually unify as opposed to continuing to rely on a broken system.

should they sit by idly?

im not absolving anyone of anything because personal responsibility and a cut and dry sense of right and wrong has to play in somewhere. but the fact how out of touch this forum is on racial issues is amusing to me, even moreso cause for years the recycled "Jesse and Al Sharpton" jokes fly around when i can assure their names NEVER come up in a positive light in social circles of most educated black people. most see them for the Charlatans they are and the cry is for real leadership.


Coach K

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2014, 11:21:54 AM »
Criminals committing crimes is illogical?

There were reports that he was assaulting a police officer (who was at a hospital with a swollen face after the incident)

Now the details are yet to come out, and it's certainly possible he shouldn't have been shot.

But it sound extremely probable that this wasn't a good person

i could shoot you and release personal stories and details and people would say the same thing. its pretty damn ignorant of you to make such a broad statement about someones shortly lived life over an alleged pack of stolen cigars and a altercation you admittedly dont know the details to.

even if he did take the cigars, like i said, he deserves to die?

Heismanberg

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2014, 11:24:04 AM »
so your answer is to match supposed apathy with more apathy , when the white community is on the winning side of history already? seems pretty naive to me.

All I'm saying is that if a white teenager stole some Black and Milds from a store and ended up getting killed by a police officer, there would no looting or riots or anything like in Ferguson.  There'd be a candlelight vigil somewhere and 95% of those people would move on. 

Why in the hell are people looting because a kid got shot?  Let's commit more crime and make our community look bad because jumping to conclusions makes a hell of a lot more sense than consoling the kid's family and waiting to hear what actually happened.

The entire situation is fucked up.  The police force and a chunk of the community are both wrong.  It's lose/lose. 

Innocent people got injured and detained and gassed because a bunch of assholes decided it would be OK to test the law by committing more crime.  Ferguson's small time police department didn't handle it well at all - they probably weren't equipped to handle that kind of chaos.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 11:25:39 AM by Heismanberg »
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Heismanberg

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2014, 11:24:47 AM »
i could shoot you and release personal stories and details and people would say the same thing.

But he didn't do anything wrong, so you'd just be murdering someone. 
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dcm1602

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2014, 11:25:46 AM »


i could shoot you and release personal stories and details and people would say the same thing. its pretty damn ignorant of you to make such a broad statement about someones shortly lived life over an alleged pack of stolen cigars and a altercation you admittedly dont know the details to.

even if he did take the cigars, like i said, he deserves to die?


I never said the guy deserved to die

I also said we need to see the evidence

What I did say is that it seems highly probable that this guy is a criminal, and likely wasn't walking down the street whistling and singing songs all innocent like some are making it out

Had this guy made better decisions in life none of us would be having this conversation right now

dcm1602

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2014, 11:26:35 AM »
But he didn't do anything wrong, so you'd just be murdering someone.
Well one could argue my grammar and spelling is a crime, but other than that...

Badger

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2014, 11:30:59 AM »
I never said the guy deserved to die

I also said we need to see the evidence

What I did say is that it seems highly probable that this guy is a criminal, and likely wasn't walking down the street whistling and singing songs all innocent like some are making it out

Had this guy made better decisions in life none of us would be having this conversation right now

That isn't the debate. The debate is about whether it's OK for a cop to unload on someone who has their hands up in surrender.

dcm1602

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2014, 11:36:05 AM »
That isn't the debate. The debate is about whether it's OK for a cop to unload on someone who has their hands up in surrender.
Except there isn't details on how the shooting occurred (ie there was a struggle, angry racist cop etc)

What is out is some data (cops face swollen, guy was possibly robbing stores)

So whether he deserved to be shot is undetermined, but him not being an innocent victim seems relatively apparent

Heismanberg

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2014, 11:41:13 AM »
Except there isn't details on how the shooting occurred (ie there was a struggle, angry racist cop etc)

What is out is some data (cops face swollen, guy was possibly robbing stores)

So whether he deserved to be shot is undetermined, but him not being an innocent victim seems relatively apparent

Multiple witnesses say there was a shot inside the police cruiser, then Brown ran about 20 feet away from the car, and the cop shot and hit him.  Then he turned and put his hands in the air...that's when he fired three to five more shots and killed him.

The cop is not right here. 
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Tommy

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Re: #BlackLivesMatter
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2014, 11:42:02 AM »
From overseas it looks like the US is in anarchy. The foreign media is eating this up.

Btw the sensationalism surrounding this story is ridiculous. Some bundle of sticks interviewed said that it's against the law to be black in America. Ugh.
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