Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 07:33:50 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210430/fff15e35ea31990b021e23af61a01020.jpg)
Post by: Jumbo on April 29, 2021, 07:34:18 PM
Post by: Laxin on April 29, 2021, 07:34:57 PM
Post by: steves850 on April 29, 2021, 07:35:56 PM
Obligatory LFG
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2021, 07:36:17 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 07:36:42 PM
The high fiving is a good introI was so hyped after he started high fiving the fans.
Post by: casman02 on April 29, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Post by: steves850 on April 29, 2021, 07:40:56 PM
Didn't say J E T S JETS JETS JETS in interview. Cut him
Never forget the Wilson era:
8:32pm - 8:34pm
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2021, 07:55:49 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2021, 07:59:54 PM
Can't stop the rooster.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2021, 08:04:58 PM
Post by: insanity on April 29, 2021, 08:06:13 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 08:51:04 PM
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 08:51:37 PM
I figured this thread would be on the second page by now.Chalk it up to us knowing it was him for a month already
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 08:53:06 PM
Chalk it up to us knowing it was him for a month alreadyWilson is old news at this point. I'm scouting the Class of 2025.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2021, 08:54:30 PM
Wilson is old news at this point. I'm scouting the Class of 2025.
Arch Manning SZN
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 08:55:46 PM
Cole Pennington SZN
FTFY
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 10:17:16 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1387966988430020608
Oof Woody though
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 29, 2021, 10:18:52 PM
Post by: Laxin on April 29, 2021, 10:20:00 PM
The call
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1387966988430020608
Oof Woody though
Saleh and JD are great man. Feels good to be in good hands.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 10:21:04 PM
The callI've been waiting for this.
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1387966988430020608
Oof Woody though
This was great. Perfect vibes. Joe Douglas being serious but clearly excited in his own way. Robert Saleh being energetic. Woody meaning well but being awkward. Hopefully this group brings us a title or 4.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2021, 10:38:50 PM
No one has ever commented on my mental horsepower.
*Cries
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 10:40:08 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1387974325630902275?s=19Zach Wilson: cocaine Mormon
No one has ever commented on my mental horsepower.
*Cries
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2021, 10:41:29 PM
Zach Wilson: cocaine MormonSpeed Jesus
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 10:42:07 PM
Zach Wilson: cocaine Mormon
Speed JesusLSD LDS
Post by: Jumbo on April 29, 2021, 10:47:32 PM
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 11:11:59 PM
I was so hyped after he started high fiving the fans.(https://i.redd.it/0s2gjkdkh7w61.jpg)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 08:50:43 AM
In an interview with Deseret News, Zach opened up about his faith, his family, and his unwillingness to be compared to other professional athletes whose religion became a big part of their respective images. He did admit that he is Mormon, but he also explained that he hadn't attended church much as a kid. He still doesn't, even if his belief system remains the same as that of the church.
"It is not something I am against," Zach said, of being seen as a representative of the church. "It is just that I didn't grow up active in the church. I'm not that 'poster boy' for the church … I was never really a churchgoer my whole life, just not involved much in it. My family and I hold the same morals and values that the church does, for sure, but I really didn't know a lot about the teaching and stuff until I got to BYU."
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 08:53:50 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 09:00:00 AM
"Culturally/ethnically Mormon" so roughly the same as about half of the Catholics I know.
I think part of it is generational - participation in the church isn’t seen as important by our age group and some of our parents as it was years ago. I could fit into your description above. One of my best friends is Muslim but never prays, drinks his derriere off, and eats a ton of bacon. Just because someone isn’t active or practicing doesn’t mean it’s not a part of their identity.
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 09:02:02 AM
I think part of it is generational - participation in the church isn’t seen as important by our age group and some of our parents as it was years ago. I could fit into your description above. One of my best friends is Muslim but never prays, drinks his derriere off, and eats a ton of bacon. Just because someone isn’t active or practicing doesn’t mean it’s not a part of their identity.That's because we're all cultural Marxists.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 09:09:18 AM
I think part of it is generational - participation in the church isn’t seen as important by our age group and some of our parents as it was years ago. I could fit into your description above. One of my best friends is Muslim but never prays, drinks his derriere off, and eats a ton of bacon. Just because someone isn’t active or practicing doesn’t mean it’s not a part of their identity.People definitely define themselves differently than our parents and grandparents. I have a bunch of Jewish and some Muslim friends who follow the dietary traditions and attend services to varying degrees.
If I remember correctly, attending services for Mormons isn't supposed to be as universal for all practitioners as it is in other religions.
TLDR: I'll believe he is what he says he is.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 09:26:28 AM
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mormon%20soak
https://www.quora.com/Is-Mormon-soaking-sex-a-real-thing
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 30, 2021, 10:04:08 AM
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 01:40:56 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 01:41:44 PM
Post by: Johnny English on April 30, 2021, 01:45:36 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210430/e4145bd5f26f6c4ba564c8309e875501.jpg)
Right, because what he really needed was to be made to look more like a Disney Channel presenter.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 01:47:31 PM
Right, because what he really needed was to be made to look more like a Disney Channel presenter.LMAFuckingO
Post by: MoreCharacters on April 30, 2021, 02:00:51 PM
That's because we're all cultural Marxists.
where can i pick up my benzos
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 02:20:28 PM
Number change for Wilson?
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 02:25:58 PM
@Connor_J_Hughes
· 3m
Zach Wilson says he wears a headband because if he doesn’t he sweats all over his face. He also likes the cool look of it hanging out the back. #Jets
elite
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 02:26:29 PM
Hasn’t picked a number yet
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 02:41:46 PM
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 05:19:39 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 30, 2021, 05:29:28 PM
- Chris Brown (beats women)
- Morgan Wallen (drops n-word)
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 05:37:35 PM
Michael Kay show asked him his favorite bands/entertainers. First two guys he brings up:Zach was 10 years old when Chris Brown beat Rihanna
- Chris Brown (beats women)
- Morgan Wallen (drops n-word)
I'm not actually making a point with that, just making everybody feel old.
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 07:36:22 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 07:37:02 PM
Michael Kay show asked him his favorite bands/entertainers. First two guys he brings up:
- Chris Brown (beats women)
- Morgan Wallen (drops n-word)
Anyone that says Chris Brown doesn’t actually listen to music
Post by: Coach K on May 01, 2021, 06:32:48 AM
Post by: reuben on May 01, 2021, 07:42:57 AM
Perfection (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210501/c9a2cb38f638cdf5dd12d5ed8765edb7.jpg)
(https://img1.nickiswift.com/img/uploads/embed/embed-5c5793684bc5b.jpg)
Alex Lewis
Post by: Coach K on May 01, 2021, 08:01:39 AM
(https://img1.nickiswift.com/img/uploads/embed/embed-5c5793684bc5b.jpg)Lololol
Alex Lewis
Post by: Coach K on May 01, 2021, 08:12:41 PM
Wilson incredibly awkward around black people lololol
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=294753028863425
Post by: Coach K on May 02, 2021, 07:16:05 AM
This is interesting
Let them drink tears
#WhyteBoiSummer
Post by: Badger on May 03, 2021, 11:17:29 AM
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/05/03/mmqb-matt-nagy-justin-fields-trey-lance-aaron-rodgers-daily-cover
HOW THE JETS DECIDED ON ZACH WILSON
This was a different type of draft year, and everyone had to get as creative as they could. So back on March 29, at BYU’s pro day, with the Niners-Dolphins trade going down, Zach Wilson getting ready to throw and the tectonic plates of the 2021 draft shifting, Jets coach Robert Saleh ran down BYU alum Fred Warner, his former star middle linebacker from San Francisco, with a bit of a weird request.
Warner was there to support Wilson and the rest of the Cougars trying to make their case to all the NFL teams there that day. He also served as a human measuring stick.
Hey Fred, can you go give Zach a hug real quick?
The first-team All-Pro obliged his old defensive coordinator, and in doing so helped Saleh, GM Joe Douglas and offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur put the final piece in place for the Jets’ decision on what to do with the second pick. The 6' 3", 230-pound Warner is roughly the same size as Patrick Mahomes, and, as he approached Wilson, who’d faced questions about his size, the Jets’ brass could actually see it.
Wilson was eye-to-eye with Warner, he had broad shoulders that measured up with a linebacker’s and confirmed what the Jets came in believing: that he had plenty of room to grow physically and could eventually show himself to be like the other big people in his family (his dad was a Utah defensive tackle, and he has one brother who’s a BYU linebacker and another who’s verbally committed to be one in 2022).
Right around that time, medical clearance came for the Jets, too, something that was important, given that Wilson had surgery on his right shoulder two years ago, and thus the final pieces were put in place for the 21-year-old to become the latest big swing that New York’s star-crossed football franchise has taken.
And obviously there’s a strong belief in Florham Park that this will be different than Mark Sanchez or Sam Darnold, or even the relatively successful Chad Pennington. They wouldn’t have done this if they didn’t feel that way. So how did they get there? A few weeks back, we detailed the Jets’ decision to deal Darnold and search for their next QB from GM Joe Douglas’s perspective. Now, we’re giving you how the coaching staff worked through this—and signed off on Wilson with the No. 2 pick.
• Saleh and his staff got going on the quarterbacks about a month ahead of starting on the rest of the draft class, a couple of weeks after arriving in Jersey in January, mostly because the Darnold situation combined with the team’s holding the second pick in a quarterback-rich year demanded that. Saleh studied the five quarterbacks who wound up going in the first round. LaFleur, QBs coach Rob Calabrese and pass-game specialist Greg Knapp did that and went deeper into the class, too, through the whole second tier.
The head coach directed his assistants not to talk to one another about the quarterback group to keep opinions on each player unaffected, and, when the staff reconvened in late February with their independent evaluations of the class, a consensus was reached that the top two were clear—Trevor Lawrence and Wilson. And that was with the offensive coaches drilling down on technical details, and Saleh clearly seeing Wilson’s fearlessness, bravado, timing, accuracy and just how smooth he looked as an athlete.
• This is going to sound bananas, but the Jets’ coaches actually discussed, at that point, how they preferred Wilson to Lawrence as a fit for their offense. Why? Wilson’s tape showed a very clean translation to the Shanahan style of offense. You can see him go through reads—1, 2, 3, out! Lawrence, conversely, played in an offense heavy on RPOs. That’s not a knock. Justin Herbert played in an RPO-heavy system in college, too, and was obviously fine.
It’s just that picturing Wilson running LaFleur’s system was easy, because BYU’s offense carries so many similar West Coast principles. And Wilson also had traits that the offense values, starting with a lightning-quick release and good balance throwing on the move.
• The next step was the Zoom meetings, and one thing in particular stuck out about Wilson in that setting. While his ADHD was at one point a story line, the quarterback showed uncanny, Rain Man–like recall. It shined through in particular during his Zoom meetings with the Jets, and as Knapp took him through the BYU tape. Or, more accurately, Wilson took Knapp through it.
If you’ve watched coaches’ tape before, you’ve seen how, before a play is shown, a shot of the scoreboard comes up to establish the point of the game the play is taken from, down-and-distance, etc. Well, at one point, in a meeting with Wilson, Knapp had the screen frozen on such a frame. Wilson immediately told him what was coming. He took him through the play call. He took him through the defense’s call. He told him how a certain corner would usually be in the coverage associated with the call. He explained his throw. Then, he told him why the coaches called the play and how it was worked into the practice week.
Suffice it to say, that impressed the coaches, and it wasn’t the only time it happened. Again, the formation presnap wasn’t even on the screen yet.
• Another part of the process was determining whether Wilson would be equipped to deal with New York. There were two reasons, primarily, the Jets eventually came to the conclusion that he’ll be fine. One, less than a year ago, he dealt with his coaches at BYU, disappointed in how 2019 played out, opening up a quarterback competition—and responded with one of the most finely quarterbacked seasons in school history. And two, Provo’s not New York. But BYU and Utah football are a big deal in that state, so he did have some “fishbowl” experience.
The Jets also got feedback on his personality and developed their own opinions as to how it would play in New York. Wilson’s throwing coach, former NFL QB John Beck, was a tremendous resource along the way, too, telling the team he’d never seen a more natural thrower at that age, or a quarterback who could throw that effortlessly off-platform, but also that he was a smart kid with enough of a cocky edge, and self-awareness, to take slings and arrows in New York.
Now, here’s one thing that really stood out to me, on how the Jets are going to handle Wilson going forward: They don’t want to put the weight of the world on his shoulders. In fact, if you watch the phone call the Jets made to Wilson after making it official, it’s right there. “All you gotta do is be yourself, nothing more, nothing less,” Douglas told Wilson, before Saleh got on the phone and added, “The biggest thing I want to tell you, just remember this, this organization is going to lift you, not the other way around.”
The point was emphasized with the Jets, soon thereafter, trading up for guard Alijah Vera-Tucker, then taking receiver Elijah Moore and tailback Michael Carter.
And the concept really does show awareness of where things went wrong with Darnold. The Jets aren’t going to ask the world of Wilson right away (though the plan is to prepare him to start Week 1, as would be the case with anyone on the roster, and the reality is he likely will start). They’ll ask him to be, to steal a phrase from my old NFL Network colleague Bucky Brooks, the trailer and not the truck as a rookie, and allow him to grow from there.
A team with that idea going in is a good place for any quarterback to start. We’ll see if that situation eventually adds up to better results at the position than the Jets have gotten of late.
Post by: MBGreen on May 03, 2021, 11:34:27 AM
Post by: Badger on May 03, 2021, 11:38:50 AM
^ read the article earlier....I got hard when they said Wilson turned into Rain man when breaking down film.Yeah, that was the "my quarterback" moment
Post by: Heismanberg on May 03, 2021, 11:48:18 AM
Post by: Badger on May 03, 2021, 12:16:26 PM
Weaponized Autism(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210503/823c4776d527612a492705a0087a1b88.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on May 03, 2021, 12:20:43 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210503/823c4776d527612a492705a0087a1b88.jpg)Yasss.
Post by: Johnny English on May 03, 2021, 01:30:33 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on May 03, 2021, 01:37:23 PM
Once again, every single editor of every single media outlet that employs a specialist Jets beat writer should be calling that guy and demanding to know why they don't have this access. I know Breer is well respected and SI isn't the Kansas City Bugle, but he and they aren't dedicated to the Jets. I wonder if Manish fucked things for the whole beat and Douglas has decided just to give access to an outlet and a writer that he knows won't ever stiff him, or be asked or tempted to.
I agree.
That said freak our beat guys in general. I am just very glad the info is out there somehow someway. It's a great read.
Post by: Jumbo on May 03, 2021, 02:10:02 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210503/823c4776d527612a492705a0087a1b88.jpg)
Blessed image
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 03, 2021, 06:42:01 PM
Post by: Badger on May 05, 2021, 02:32:17 PM
https://youtu.be/Ymm9Ogo5P_Y
Post by: Badger on May 05, 2021, 02:32:49 PM
https://youtu.be/Np2QYHN2vic
Post by: bojanglesman on May 05, 2021, 03:43:36 PM
Eric Allen and Zach
https://youtu.be/Np2QYHN2vic
Eric Allen is like a make-a-wish journalist. He's terrible at interviews, but I don't want him to get fired because he seems like a good guy.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 05, 2021, 04:00:54 PM
Eric Allen is like a make-a-wish journalist. He's terrible at interviews, but I don't want him to get fired because he seems like a good guy.He's there to be a company shill, so he does a good job.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 05, 2021, 08:25:40 PM
He's there to be a company shill, so he does a good job.
I'm fairly confident all of us would take his job in 2 seconds
Post by: Badger on May 05, 2021, 08:27:20 PM
freak that I'm not commuting to NJ
I'm fairly confident all of us would take his job in 2 seconds
Post by: Libero_2 on May 05, 2021, 08:30:34 PM
freak that I'm not commuting to NJ
I'd move to New Jersey for that job
Post by: Badger on May 05, 2021, 10:15:48 PM
https://youtu.be/d1_9un1XZhk
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 05, 2021, 11:13:41 PM
Zach and the BYU TV boysHe has had a weekly spot on there for a while now.
https://youtu.be/d1_9un1XZhk
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 06, 2021, 07:44:59 AM
Post by: insanity on May 06, 2021, 08:01:50 AM
Zach Wilson to wear #2 with the Jets, per SI.Even Zach Wilson knows he's not the best qb from his draft class.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 06, 2021, 08:05:33 AM
Zach Wilson to wear #2 with the Jets, per SI.
Probably some motivational crud. "I wanted to remember I wasn't taken #1 overall...."
Post by: MBGreen on May 06, 2021, 08:10:31 AM
Zach Wilson to wear #2 with the Jets, per SI."What would you do if you had a million dollars?"
"I'll tell you what I'd do, man. 2 chicks at the same time."
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210506/61f85a0d7c0aae3961443a0076d4469c.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on May 06, 2021, 08:18:11 AM
Zach Wilson to wear #2 with the Jets, per SI.
linky?
Post by: MBGreen on May 06, 2021, 08:20:00 AM
linky?www.si.com
Post by: bojanglesman on May 06, 2021, 08:44:00 AM
www.si.com
(https://gbatemp.net/attachments/208602/)
Post by: Gorilla on May 06, 2021, 10:34:52 AM
I would still guess he's wearing 2 though. Which is definitely my preference over #1, since, as most Jets fans will admit, looks kind of dumb in our current font. Also as a Yankees/Jeter fan I'd be happy with it. The 2 in our current font looks great to me.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on May 06, 2021, 12:10:34 PM
Post by: MBGreen on May 06, 2021, 12:40:44 PM
I think number 2 was just because he was the 2nd pick overall.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210506/f512c403b944d7f41299ee71b6c49ee5.jpg)
Post by: Libero_2 on May 06, 2021, 02:55:24 PM
Plus 2s always been my number. So I’m plenty cool with that
Post by: Heismanberg on May 06, 2021, 02:55:58 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 06, 2021, 04:07:21 PM
Matt Ryan
Jamarcus Russell
Tim Couch
Now Zach Wilson
ok who am i missing
Post by: Johnny English on May 06, 2021, 06:39:08 PM
Famous QBs that wore #2
Matt Ryan
Jamarcus Russell
Tim Couch
Now Zach Wilson
ok who am i missing
It's not a great number.
https://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/jersey-number/
Not really much competition for #12 if you want to maximise your chances of being a great QB, but that obviously isn't an option available to Wilson.
Post by: Johnny English on May 06, 2021, 06:51:01 PM
Blaine Gabbert
Johnny Manziel
AJ McCarron
Chris Simms
Someone get the kid a new number stat.
Post by: Badger on May 06, 2021, 06:52:24 PM
Post by: MoreCharacters on May 06, 2021, 09:57:54 PM
Post by: MoreCharacters on May 06, 2021, 09:58:51 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on May 06, 2021, 10:05:41 PM
I feel like I brought it up before but my advanced alzheimers is too great
Post by: Badger on May 07, 2021, 05:39:33 AM
Has there been a discussion on realistic expectations for this dude this year?We have 4+ more months to talk about it anyway, nothing has ever stopped us from having the same debate over and over. But to answer your question I don't think we really got into it yet.
I feel like I brought it up before but my advanced alzheimers is too great
Post by: delavan on May 07, 2021, 09:28:46 AM
Derek Jeter makes up for all those duds.
2nd that - Brian Leetch
Post by: MBGreen on May 07, 2021, 09:31:39 AM
2nd that - Brian Leetch
Jalen Hurts
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 07, 2021, 11:20:23 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 07, 2021, 11:27:28 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on May 07, 2021, 11:41:30 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 07, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
I want him to wear #1This would be confusing for me as I typically root for every QB who wears #1 to get burried.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 07, 2021, 11:44:28 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 07, 2021, 11:48:52 AM
Team brass said that the numbers are unofficial. Chris Naggar is currently wearing #1.
My Nagga'
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 07, 2021, 11:52:11 AM
Team brass said that the numbers are unofficial. Chris Naggar is currently wearing #1.Give it to Ficken.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 07, 2021, 12:00:05 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 07, 2021, 12:10:25 PM
Our kickers' names are Ficken and Naggar. Let that sink in.Oh man, I didn't even think about that.
Better that when the Pats had Gay and Succup.
Post by: Badger on May 07, 2021, 05:47:06 PM
Post by: Johnny English on May 07, 2021, 09:06:02 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 07, 2021, 09:10:19 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 08, 2021, 03:37:33 AM
Post by: MBGreen on May 08, 2021, 07:27:38 AM
Someone call the Viagra "over 4 hours with a boner" hotline for MB.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210508/92f95e0411d9605b38f11b444ab9c4b8.jpg)
Post by: Badger on May 08, 2021, 09:28:42 AM
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31399489/zach-wilson-path-new-york-jets-nfl-worst-kept-secret
Some points
-A team scout brought Wilson to Joe D's attention in October at which point he began to watch his tape personally
-Jets did *5* hours of videoconferencing with Wilson, the maximum allowed
-By the end of January, Joe D had watched Wilson's entire college career
-BYU pro day cemented the pick
-Due to lack of normal pre-draft medical screening, Jets reached out to BYU medical staff and the surgeon who repaired his labrum for information
Post by: Badger on May 08, 2021, 12:38:41 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/andy_vasquez/status/1391051655249022980?s=21
Post by: reuben on May 08, 2021, 07:00:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmu7nd_Wh8o&ab_channel=NFLSeason (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmu7nd_Wh8o&ab_channel=NFLSeason)
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 08, 2021, 07:45:03 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 08, 2021, 07:47:28 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 08, 2021, 08:46:43 PM
I'm trying to keep in mind that we will likely finish 4th in the AFC East this year, probably below .500. But we will be better.
As long as we're competitive and showing improvement throughout the year, I couldn't care less about our record.
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 08, 2021, 08:54:20 PM
Post by: Badger on May 08, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
I fully expect everyone to nitpick the team during the season if we struggle.Everyone meaning...? I think around here we're gonna be in a honeymoon phase but the media in general won't cut us any slack.
Post by: reuben on May 08, 2021, 10:15:36 PM
I fully expect everyone to nitpick the team during the season if we struggle.
Every Jets beat writer already has an article written about Sam Darnold's first 300 yard game with the Panthers.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 08, 2021, 10:39:08 PM
Every Jets beat writer already has an article written about Sam Darnold's first 300 yard game with the Panthers.
And Zach Wilson’s first 2 interception performance
Post by: dcm1602 on May 09, 2021, 12:33:33 AM
Every Jets beat writer already has an article written about Sam Darnold's first 300 yard game with the Panthers.
This will be the biggest and or most obnoxious storyline of the season (if Sam improves and Wilson looks like every other jets QB the last 20 years)
Post by: bojanglesman on May 09, 2021, 01:35:20 AM
Post by: MBGreen on May 09, 2021, 05:51:39 AM
Wilson is going to throw a lot of INTs this year. We are going to lose a lot of games. I don't care as long as Wilson doesn't excrement his pants and we stay competitive in games. I'll be happy to see a competitive NFL offense.I expect we'll see a run heavy offense. I don't think Wilson will throw a lot of INTs.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 09, 2021, 07:21:43 AM
I expect we'll see a run heavy offense. I don't think Wilson will throw a lot of INTs.
I’d be surprised if he doesn’t throw at least 15. The guy takes chances, and at BYU he could get away with that more than he will in the NFL. And as much as we are improved over a year ago talent wise, we aren’t rolling out any upper echelon NFL offensive rooms this year.
Don’t get me wrong I hope he resets every rookie record this year, throwing for 4,000 yards, 35 TDs, 6 INTs and has a 70% completion percentage. I just think it’s fairly unrealistic. But who knows just how good he will be out of the gate
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 09, 2021, 10:04:48 AM
I’d be surprised if he doesn’t throw at least 15. The guy takes chances, and at BYU he could get away with that more than he will in the NFL. And as much as we are improved over a year ago talent wise, we aren’t rolling out any upper echelon NFL offensive rooms this year.
Don’t get me wrong I hope he resets every rookie record this year, throwing for 4,000 yards, 35 TDs, 6 INTs and has a 70% completion percentage. I just think it’s fairly unrealistic. But who knows just how good he will be out of the gate
i agree that we should temper expectations on wilson this year, but i don't think that means we should automatically assume that wilson's going to throw a ton of picks because he's going up against nfl talent compared to the talent he saw at byu.
we know he has the arm and the ability to more or less make any throw. he wasn't facing top tier college defenses each week but we also know that he wasn't working with a star studded group of offensive WRs. a tight window is a tight window irrespective of competition level, and time and again he showed the ability to make those throws. that'll translate to the NFL level too.
we don't have an all-world group of WRs but they're all decent. the group is night and day compared to last year, and they all have the ability to create a decent amount of separation, which bodes well for wilson. i don't even think wilson himself is the biggest question mark RE the 2021 offense going into the season. i think the bigger question and bigger determinant of how we're going to end up doing is how well our OL can protect him.
Post by: insanity on May 09, 2021, 11:19:54 AM
I expect we'll see a run heavy offense. I don't think Wilson will throw a lot of INTs.We'll see. We said the same about sam
Post by: MBGreen on May 09, 2021, 11:42:24 AM
We'll see. We said the same about samGase destroyed Sam
Post by: bojanglesman on May 09, 2021, 11:51:54 AM
I do feel like this coaching staff will make an effort to lean on other aspects of the offense this year so he doesn't have to play hero ball.
By the end of the year I just we have a QB who hasn't excrement his pants and shows flashes of playmaking ability. Darnold did this, but we supported him with swiss cheese and toothpicks.
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 09, 2021, 12:29:58 PM
It's possible Peter Lafleur can coach him to be a bit conservative this year, but he will still make lots of mistakes
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwWIZxcWwAEJBwV?format=jpg&name=small)
Post by: bojanglesman on May 09, 2021, 12:42:43 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwWIZxcWwAEJBwV?format=jpg&name=small)There won't be any shortage of memes if our offense sucks.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/76309823/youre-going-down-lafleur-down-like-a-sweet-muffin.jpg)
Post by: Badger on May 09, 2021, 01:22:57 PM
We'll see. We said the same about samOne of my biggest concerns about Sam as a prospect was his propensity for turnovers. When we drafted him I just hoped that he'd make up for it with his improvisational abilities.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 09, 2021, 02:21:38 PM
i agree that we should temper expectations on wilson this year, but i don't think that means we should automatically assume that wilson's going to throw a ton of picks because he's going up against nfl talent compared to the talent he saw at byu.
we know he has the arm and the ability to more or less make any throw. he wasn't facing top tier college defenses each week but we also know that he wasn't working with a star studded group of offensive WRs. a tight window is a tight window irrespective of competition level, and time and again he showed the ability to make those throws. that'll translate to the NFL level too.
we don't have an all-world group of WRs but they're all decent. the group is night and day compared to last year, and they all have the ability to create a decent amount of separation, which bodes well for wilson. i don't even think wilson himself is the biggest question mark RE the 2021 offense going into the season. i think the bigger question and bigger determinant of how we're going to end up doing is how well our OL can protect him.
Now that we are moving to 17 games, if he only throws 15 interceptions, that would be 0.88 per game. That seems pretty reasonable for a rookie and not at all insane to see.
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 09, 2021, 03:58:41 PM
Everyone meaning...? I think around here we're gonna be in a honeymoon phase but the media in general won't cut us any slack.
Meaning this board because a bunch of assholes on the internet are going to result in only one logical conclusion.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 09, 2021, 07:57:16 PM
Meaning this board because a bunch of assholes on the internet are going to result in only one logical conclusion.
Honestly it will depend on how we are losing games how we will feel. In general I feel like this board is more measured than other Jets places on the interwebz, but we are still fans, and we still fall victim to many of the same ills as a collective.
But largely I think this year will be a honeymoon phase, as long as we aren't getting our doors blown off in the fall and are competitive. I think a lot of fans are excited about Saleh, and believe he's the real deal, and if he can coach 1/2 a lick, he's going to get plenty of slack for the first couple seasons as long as we at least appear to not be Adam Gase bad on the field.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 09, 2021, 09:55:09 PM
I'm trying to keep in mind that we will likely finish 4th in the AFC East this year, probably below .500. But we will be better.
Yes to this except we commit seppuku if we finish behind the Dolphins
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 10, 2021, 12:53:55 PM
Post by: Johnny English on May 10, 2021, 12:56:50 PM
https://twitter.com/pfn365/status/1391803633629605892?s=21
You know what else was beautiful? His pocket. He makes some great throws on that video but boy does he ever have a lot of time to make some of them.
We should definitely try doing that.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on May 10, 2021, 04:33:29 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 10, 2021, 08:24:14 PM
Yep, some of the flak he got before the draft was because his pockets were always clean. Hopefully we can do the same.
2020 Pressure rates:
(Lance 2019)
Fields: 21.7%
Lawrence: 18.2%
Wilson: 16.4%
Jones: 15.5%
Lance: 14%
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tp_UPHgVsRMJpXAtyyvKVrLRfdeNey-OZS0iDPu2f5E/htmlview#
In absolute shock that Trey Lance didn’t receive the “OL too gud” detraction along with being exempt from the strength of competition talking point
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 10, 2021, 08:25:10 PM
Post by: reuben on May 10, 2021, 08:32:47 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 10, 2021, 08:46:55 PM
Trevor Lawrence never took a snap under center? That's crazy.
Are you new to Dabo Swinney's offense?
This has been a running theme with every QB to come out of Clemson.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 10, 2021, 09:27:34 PM
Are you new to Dabo Swinney's offense?
This has been a running theme with every QB to come out of Clemson.
To be fair it’s been 4 years since a Clemson QB was draft eligible
Post by: bojanglesman on May 12, 2021, 07:43:22 AM
https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1392286598360883200?s=19
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 12, 2021, 07:46:06 AM
Zach Wilson's Mom might be the new hate freak leader.
https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1392286598360883200?s=19
I normally don't like blondes so to me she's just not hot.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 12, 2021, 07:50:16 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on May 12, 2021, 07:50:47 AM
I'd say there's almost a 100% chance she also ends up going on a rant about leadership/ownership/coaching of this team in regards to Zach Wilson
Post by: bojanglesman on May 12, 2021, 07:58:03 AM
Almost 100% chance she ends up posting something extremely offensive and or probably racist and it ends up getting a semi major headline of embarrassment for the JetsAt least she's hot.
I'd say there's almost a 100% chance she also ends up going on a rant about leadership/ownership/coaching of this team in regards to Zach Wilson
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 12, 2021, 10:12:45 AM
Almost 100% chance she ends up posting something extremely offensive and or probably racist and it ends up getting a semi major headline of embarrassment for the Jets
I'd say there's almost a 100% chance she also ends up going on a rant about leadership/ownership/coaching of this team in regards to Zach Wilson
I actually agree
Post by: Libero_2 on May 12, 2021, 10:41:18 AM
Almost 100% chance she ends up posting something extremely offensive and or probably racist and it ends up getting a semi major headline of embarrassment for the Jets
I'd say there's almost a 100% chance she also ends up going on a rant about leadership/ownership/coaching of this team in regards to Zach Wilson
I can already see this playing out. Mom posts horrific thing on Sunday at noon. Zach plays at 1:00 pm has a 'doesn't move the needle' game, 220 yards, 1 td 1 int. Cimini's first question: "Zach, what are your thoughts about your mothers post on Instagram just before kickoff today?"
Post by: Johnny English on May 12, 2021, 10:41:59 AM
I actually agree
I have to think that the Jets PR team are already speaking to the family and saying "scrub your social media, and be incredibly careful about what you post from here on in because everything you say can and will be used to make your son's life more difficult. Preferably hire someone to manage it for you, or run it through us."
We've all seen how spouses and family members can make professional athletes' lives very awkward when they start saying stupid things in public forums. The Wilson family seem to be pretty geared around becoming a sports dynasty, so hopefully they're smart enough to understand the role they need to play.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 12, 2021, 11:01:10 AM
I have to think that the Jets PR team are already speaking to the family and saying "scrub your social media, and be incredibly careful about what you post from here on in because everything you say can and will be used to make your son's life more difficult. Preferably hire someone to manage it for you, or run it through us."
We've all seen how spouses and family members can make professional athletes' lives very awkward when they start saying stupid things in public forums. The Wilson family seem to be pretty geared around becoming a sports dynasty, so hopefully they're smart enough to understand the role they need to play.
She seems like the type that hates being told what to do, runs her mouth constantly with no filter, and posts about 100 Instagram stories a day. Good luck PR team.
Post by: Badger on May 12, 2021, 11:27:13 AM
Post by: Jumbo on May 12, 2021, 11:42:56 AM
We really have nothing to talk about right now, huh
But what does Zach Wilson's great grandma think about the 2022 midterms?
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 12, 2021, 12:03:01 PM
We really have nothing to talk about right now, huhWhen Wilson fails and we're drafting Arch Manning in 2025 with new coach Brian Schottenheimer, we'll look back on these rants on how we knew Wilson was never the right guy.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 12, 2021, 12:29:20 PM
I could see Wilson struggling to start the season because of this
Post by: bojanglesman on May 12, 2021, 12:58:23 PM
“lifeaccording2Lisa” Instagram username is a major red flag, gives off heavy mom vlogger/girlboss energy vibesThat account will be directly responsible for a decrease in his PFF 15+ yard off catchable throw %.
I could see Wilson struggling to start the season because of this
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 13, 2021, 06:00:48 AM
We really have nothing to talk about right now, huh
Aaand they’ve been talking about it for the last 10 minutes on the 660 morning show. Very surprising.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 13, 2021, 09:00:49 AM
Post by: MBGreen on May 13, 2021, 09:02:07 AM
Really hope Wilson's mom doesn't become a bigger distraction come September.
Bring on the topless photos
Post by: Heismanberg on May 13, 2021, 09:16:41 AM
Really hope Wilson's mom doesn't become a bigger distraction come September.
This is such a stupid concern.
Lavar Ball is one of the worst parents in the history of sports. He got boring after a while and the media just moved on.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 13, 2021, 09:25:11 AM
This is such a stupid concern.I'm not really that concerned about it, but it's just unnecessary, and nothing good can really come of it. And the media largely moved on because Lonzo wasn't that good in LA.
Lavar Ball is one of the worst parents in the history of sports. He got boring after a while and the media just moved on.
I assume this will be one of those things we talk about in May and June and forget about by August. All I'm saying is that I hope that's the case.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 13, 2021, 09:27:24 AM
Post by: MBGreen on May 13, 2021, 10:07:13 AM
Can we get her to the tailgate?
if you make masks optional
Post by: insanity on May 13, 2021, 10:55:20 AM
This is such a stupid concern.
Lavar Ball is one of the worst parents in the history of sports. He got boring after a while and the media just moved on.
Did he? Or did Lonzo get injured, started sucking, and got traded.
This 100% will be a story this year
Post by: Heismanberg on May 13, 2021, 11:55:41 AM
Did he? Or did Lonzo get injured, started sucking, and got traded.
This 100% will be a story this year
Lamelo is one of the best young point guards to enter the league in years. If he wasn't hurt earlier in the year, he would've been ROY.
People stop giving a excrement after a while because it's just boring.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 13, 2021, 01:22:50 PM
https://twitter.com/rzstprogramming/status/1392865911606972418?s=21
Have fun with this thread guys
I’m sure this people will get bored of this eventually. Doubt lifeaccording2Lisa gives them any more content after this. Or will have any influence on her 21 year old son’s life.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 13, 2021, 01:36:37 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 13, 2021, 03:39:52 PM
https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNFL/status/1392872932104409092
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 13, 2021, 03:42:36 PM
Post by: insanity on May 13, 2021, 03:46:02 PM
Post by: MoreCharacters on May 13, 2021, 03:54:05 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 13, 2021, 04:00:41 PM
Let's get this thread back on course.
https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNFL/status/1392872932104409092
You’re right, brb, creating Zach Wilson’s Mom Thread
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 13, 2021, 09:31:40 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 13, 2021, 09:39:23 PM
I just watched a clip of Tomi Lahren defending Zach Wilson on Fox News and I have AIDS now
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Post by: Johnny English on May 13, 2021, 09:48:22 PM
I just watched a clip of Tomi Lahren defending Zach Wilson on Fox News and I have AIDS now
What exactly was Malibu Stasi defending him against?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 13, 2021, 09:50:42 PM
What exactly was Malibu Stasi defending him against?
Cancel culture, probably, I didn’t really listen
https://twitter.com/rzstprogramming/status/1392929771919577088?s=21
Post by: Heismanberg on May 13, 2021, 10:23:57 PM
Post by: Jumbo on May 13, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Resist Programming is worse than PFF
Resist Programming missed just 5.3% of resistable content on Twitter last week, 5th out of 82 eligible Twitter accounts (87.3 RESIST grade)
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 13, 2021, 11:25:02 PM
Resist Programming is worse than PFF
Seriously, though, who do you like for stats?
Post by: MBGreen on May 14, 2021, 07:57:02 AM
Seriously, though, who do you like for stats?
my brain
Post by: mj2sexay on May 14, 2021, 09:21:39 AM
Whoever runs that twitter account needs a swift kick in the derriere.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 14, 2021, 09:58:05 AM
I’ll bet you guys will say this video is fake news too, disgusting
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 14, 2021, 10:24:10 AM
https://twitter.com/tytsports/status/1389566731547459588?s=21The test will come during the season whenever a cop inevitably kills another black person, and he gets asked about it.
I’ll bet you guys will say this video is fake news too, disgusting
Players loved Drew Brees despite his beliefs, though Brees was also established as a star.
Post by: mj2sexay on May 14, 2021, 10:30:05 AM
https://twitter.com/tytsports/status/1389566731547459588?s=21
I’ll bet you guys will say this video is fake news too, disgusting
The guy who runs that account looks EXACTLY like I thought he would.
Players loved Drew Brees despite his beliefs,
Lol, Drew Brees was raked through the coals for issuing a benign statement on conduct during the national anthem.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 14, 2021, 11:10:36 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 14, 2021, 03:12:22 PM
Lamelo is one of the best young point guards to enter the league in years. If he wasn't hurt earlier in the year, he would've been ROY.
People stop giving a excrement after a while because it's just boring.
all in all i agree that people will move on and get bored
but there is a huge difference between a dad talking unrealistic excrement about how great his sons are and how they're going to be better than michael jordan vs the type of stuff zach wilson's mom will seemingly be prone to saying. it's much easier to ignore the former than it will be the latter, especially given the current climate of the world.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 14, 2021, 03:22:14 PM
all in all i agree that people will move on and get boredAll that will matter in the end of the day is how Wilson gets along with his teammates. Michael Carter was raving about him on the radio. Elijah Moore was saying a lot of good things, too.
but there is a huge difference between a dad talking unrealistic excrement about how great his sons are and how they're going to be better than michael jordan vs the type of stuff zach wilson's mom will seemingly be prone to saying. it's much easier to ignore the former than it will be the latter, especially given the current climate of the world.
The big test will come when racial tensions flare up again the next time there is a #policemurder. As the QB and face of the franchise, he'll be asked about it. He'll also be asked about kneeling when that inevitably comes up. Hopefully, he has enough of a nondescript answer where it doesn't become a major story.
The first time it comes up, some media members will try to make it a story based on Wilson's Twitter likes and his mother. It will be up to Wilson to either diffuse that, or to have built up enough trust in the locker room where it doesn't matter.
Worst case scenario, Wilson isn't playing well, he says something that offends some of his teammates, and we have a major issue. Hopefully, Wilson is good enough and smart enough where that doesn't happen.
However, the most likely scenario by far is that none of this will matter.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 14, 2021, 05:01:47 PM
All that will matter in the end of the day is how Wilson gets along with his teammates. Michael Carter was raving about him on the radio. Elijah Moore was saying a lot of good things, too.
The big test will come when racial tensions flare up again the next time there is a #policemurder. As the QB and face of the franchise, he'll be asked about it. He'll also be asked about kneeling when that inevitably comes up. Hopefully, he has enough of a nondescript answer where it doesn't become a major story.
The first time it comes up, some media members will try to make it a story based on Wilson's Twitter likes and his mother. It will be up to Wilson to either diffuse that, or to have built up enough trust in the locker room where it doesn't matter.
Worst case scenario, Wilson isn't playing well, he says something that offends some of his teammates, and we have a major issue. Hopefully, Wilson is good enough and smart enough where that doesn't happen.
However, the most likely scenario by far is that none of this will matter.
https://twitter.com/mkf/status/1388260430280200192?s=21
🤟🤟
Post by: Johnny English on May 14, 2021, 06:02:36 PM
He's a kid, he doesn't know excrement right now. And if he's a Trump fan, so what? I've long since accepted that most of the guys I cheer for in my favourite laundry on a weekend are right wingers, it comes with being a millionaire. Hell, I was pretty right wing at 21 and I was broke, I was just dumb and mildly indoctrinated.
As long as he keeps his mouth shut and throws ball good, and as long as Mom behaves herself on social media and doesn't decide to use her son's reflected spotlight to spout brainless crap that the poopchute NY media can fill the column inches with because the team is giving the good stuff to their national competitors, we're all good.
Post by: mj2sexay on May 14, 2021, 06:19:09 PM
The views espoused by him and his mother for that matter are benign as freak, only to be cried over by the derriere end of the twittersphere.
And if he's a Trump fan, so what?
Easily the most rational take so far.
Post by: Johnny English on May 14, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on May 14, 2021, 06:26:41 PM
Oh excrement mj thinks I'm rational, I'm fucked
Sorry to paint you with the scarlet letter, but this social puritanism is so out of hand.
I couldn't imagine being so freaking tribalistic as to not go to a Bruce concert even if I find his politics (and that Jeep commercial) to be freaking stupid.
Post by: Johnny English on May 14, 2021, 06:31:30 PM
Sorry to paint you with the scarlet letter, but this social puritanism is so out of hand.
I couldn't imagine being so freaking tribalistic as to not go to a Bruce concert even if I find his politics (and that Jeep commercial) to be freaking stupid.
I already screwed myself by drinking with you at the tailgate.
There are situations in which "is a xxxx supporter / voter / believer" are more problematic than others. Throwing a football is a long way towards the "others" end of the scale. If I'm going to be supportive of players taking a knee and using their position to espouse views with which I agree, and broadly I am, I feel like it would be hypocritical to be bothered by players doing the same for views with which I don't agree. I reserve the right to ignore them and/or celebrate them getting lit up, depending on the situation and laundry involved in the given moment.
Post by: mj2sexay on May 14, 2021, 06:36:25 PM
I already screwed myself by drinking with you at the tailgate.
Hate to further dig that hole and throw Badger under the bus as well, but I had a blast watching the game in between the both of you! Had a great time conversing in the parking lot with Alio, Insanity and SixFeet.
There are situations in which "is a xxxx supporter / voter / believer" are more problematic than others. Throwing a football is a long way towards the "others" end of the scale. If I'm going to be supportive of players taking a knee and using their position to espouse views with which I agree, and broadly I am, I feel like it would be hypocritical to be bothered by players doing the same for views with which I don't agree. I reserve the right to ignore them and/or celebrate them getting lit up, depending on the situation and laundry involved in the given moment.
Wholly reasonable.
I'd be lying if I said I haven't enjoyed all the excrement that gopher face Chrissy Teigen has been getting over the last couple days for the very same reason.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 14, 2021, 06:46:12 PM
I mean, when did Laura Ingraham enter this freaking board? So Zach's supposed to just shut up and dribble? Is that it?Like I said, this likely won't be an issue. Plenty of rich people in sports are Republican, and being Republican doesn't make you a bad person.
The views espoused by him and his mother for that matter are benign as freak, only to be cried over by the derriere end of the twittersphere.
Easily the most rational take so far.
The thing with Zach is that he is the leader of the team, and I don't want anything to get in the way that could potentially cause divisiveness in the locker room. There will come a time where another black person is killed by the police on video, and he needs to be able to handle that in a way that won't alienate his teammates. He seems smart enough where that won't happen, but so did Drew Brees. Brees had 15 years of good will built up when he said what he said, and he's a Hall of Famer. I just hope Wilson doesn't put his foot in his mouth when it comes to this. That's all. I doubt he will.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 14, 2021, 06:49:56 PM
https://twitter.com/BoyGreen25/status/1393347496789876736
This is another example, that he wants to get used to New Jersey and the area and his teammates, as he prepares to be the leader. And potentially lead a Jets South workout.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 14, 2021, 07:08:04 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 14, 2021, 07:10:58 PM
Lol
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 14, 2021, 11:43:53 PM
god damn. we got the wrong fvcking one
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 15, 2021, 11:55:58 AM
heart eyes at views of shitlife stadium
god damn. we got the wrong fvcking one
Lmao
Post by: Badger on May 16, 2021, 07:52:57 PM
Really hope Wilson's mom doesn't become a bigger distraction come September.Statements like this kind of help make that possible. Anything but ignoring or outright STFUing any mention of it really.
Post by: Badger on May 16, 2021, 08:00:00 PM
Resist Programming is worse than PFF(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210517/a71e6be0bf25e5385da3fb4891a2dd41.jpg)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 18, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
Conor Orr is worse than Resist Programming
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 18, 2021, 01:45:13 PM
https://twitter.com/sinow/status/1394504329155940355?s=21
Conor Orr is worse than Resist Programming
Our "organizational health" is a 3, yet the Jags' is a 9? Give me a break.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 19, 2021, 06:34:16 AM
Our "organizational health" is a 3, yet the Jags' is a 9? Give me a break.
I’m more interested in how the Jags coaching is a 7, with Meyer who has never coached in the pros before. Meanwhile the Jets staff is a 6 despite having tons of respect around the league. I’m ok with the idea that we are “prove it” level as a staff, but the Jags should be as well. And the bears staff has proved it “poorly” to say the least and they are ahead of us?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 19, 2021, 09:32:50 AM
I’m more interested in how the Jags coaching is a 7, with Meyer who has never coached in the pros before. Meanwhile the Jets staff is a 6 despite having tons of respect around the league. I’m ok with the idea that we are “prove it” level as a staff, but the Jags should be as well. And the bears staff has proved it “poorly” to say the least and they are ahead of us?
Matt Nagy as a 7 is worse
Post by: Coach K on May 19, 2021, 10:04:16 AM
And yeah hiw tf are Jags a 9 and we're a 3
Seeing Urban Meyer and health in the same concept are always amusing
Post by: delavan on May 19, 2021, 10:35:12 AM
Matt Nagy as a 7 is worse
gets a bump for his 2018 coach of the year award (PFWA & AP).
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 19, 2021, 04:11:04 PM
Resist Programming is worse than PFF
Post by: Libero_2 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
https://twitter.com/pff/status/1395122091494543362?s=21
So Daniel Jones, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Trevor Lawrence are top 20 starting QBs in the NFL this year?
Also Fields isn’t even a lock to start week 1 at this point.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 22, 2021, 03:30:18 PM
https://twitter.com/MikeFerrari13_/status/1396193559699730432
Post by: Heismanberg on May 22, 2021, 03:44:36 PM
Zach Wilson has already claimed the Nets and the Islanders.
https://twitter.com/MikeFerrari13_/status/1396193559699730432
Fant and GVR with him
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 22, 2021, 04:07:38 PM
Zach Wilson has already claimed the Nets and the Islanders.
https://twitter.com/MikeFerrari13_/status/1396193559699730432
freak Zach Wilson.
Post by: Badger on May 22, 2021, 04:26:24 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on May 22, 2021, 09:16:32 PM
freak Zach Wilson.
Lmao
Post by: Johnny English on May 22, 2021, 09:43:28 PM
Post by: MBGreen on May 23, 2021, 06:47:02 AM
Sam would never.Sam's a bum
Post by: Badger on May 28, 2021, 10:30:30 AM
Solid Cimini article
Post by: bojanglesman on June 03, 2021, 08:19:05 PM
(https://pagesix.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/06/zach-wilson-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1280)
JFIF 2/10- elbows not symmetrical, eyebrows 1/64 inch too low
Post by: reuben on June 03, 2021, 08:20:44 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on June 03, 2021, 08:24:06 PM
Hover handThere are hands in this photo?
Post by: d sw0rdz on June 03, 2021, 10:22:04 PM
you know wilson is swimming in that excrement
Post by: d sw0rdz on June 03, 2021, 10:24:31 PM
Solid side piece.
(https://pagesix.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/06/zach-wilson-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1280)
JFIF 2/10- elbows not symmetrical, eyebrows 1/64 inch too low
the biggest fvckin win at MSG last night
Post by: MBGreen on June 04, 2021, 06:43:17 AM
Solid side piece.
(https://pagesix.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/06/zach-wilson-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1280)
JFIF 2/10- elbows not symmetrical, eyebrows 1/64 inch too low
I would pump so many babies into her boner garage.
Post by: delavan on June 04, 2021, 11:50:33 AM
I would pump so many babies into her boner garage.
#octodick
Post by: bojanglesman on June 04, 2021, 12:09:17 PM
I would pump so many babies into her boner garage.I would disappoint her repeatedly.
Post by: mj2sexay on June 04, 2021, 12:09:53 PM
I would disappoint her repeatedly.
Best two minutes and twelve seconds of her life.
Post by: bojanglesman on June 04, 2021, 12:11:34 PM
Best two minutes and twelve seconds of her life.Quit bragging man. She could read the history of Mormon religion mid-coitus and I'd be done in 11 seconds max.
Post by: MBGreen on June 16, 2021, 01:25:03 PM
@RVacchianoSNY
·
1m
Jets QB Zach Wilson said he plans to get together with some of his WRs, TEs and RBs to get some work in before training camp starts on July 27.
Jets West 2.0
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 16, 2021, 02:01:11 PM
Jets West 2.0
I think we can go ahead and retire this.
Post by: bojanglesman on June 16, 2021, 02:05:58 PM
(https://www.pngitem.com/pimgs/m/630-6303856_kanye-west-mullet-haircut-hd-png-download.png)
Post by: MBGreen on June 16, 2021, 02:26:02 PM
I think we can go ahead and retire this.
Thinking of changing the forum name to Jets West 2.0
Post by: Badger on June 16, 2021, 03:20:31 PM
Post by: reuben on June 16, 2021, 03:23:07 PM
Post by: Badger on June 16, 2021, 03:43:46 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 16, 2021, 04:07:34 PM
The Dan Feeney Memorial Voluntary Workout Trip
This implies he's dead so I'm OK with it
Post by: Badger on June 16, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
This implies he's dead so I'm OK with itTragic cornhole accident, RIP
Post by: Johnny English on June 16, 2021, 05:49:16 PM
Tragic cornhole accident, RIPHis Camaro IROC-Z fell on him as he was working under it on his driveway. It wasn't his fault though, his buddy Dale was going to get them another beer when his sister pushed the trailer door open on her way to flip the Def Leppard cassette over to side B and knocked him flying into the come along that was supporting the skid he was using as a jack.
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 16, 2021, 06:27:32 PM
Tragic cornhole accident, RIP
Were Darnold and Danny Fumbles involved?
Post by: bojanglesman on June 16, 2021, 08:21:32 PM
His Camaro IROC-Z fell on him as he was working under it on his driveway. It wasn't his fault though, his buddy Dale was going to get them another beer when his sister pushed the trailer door open on her way to flip the Def Leppard cassette over to side B and knocked him flying into the come along that was supporting the skid he was using as a jack.Dokken....
Post by: SixFeetDeep on June 16, 2021, 11:05:48 PM
TFW a routine OTA throw from your franchise QB hypnotizes you
Post by: SixFeetDeep on June 16, 2021, 11:10:44 PM
I think this is where I originally saw it, possibly better framerate/definition if you want to pound the stone again
Post by: bojanglesman on June 17, 2021, 06:46:25 AM
https://twitter.com/nyj_matt/status/1404902740564844556?s=21That second throw almost looks photoshopped. Ball just floats too smoothly.
I think this is where I originally saw it, possibly better framerate/definition if you want to pound the stone again
Post by: MBGreen on June 17, 2021, 07:01:08 AM
Dokken....
Firehouse
Post by: bojanglesman on June 17, 2021, 07:38:42 AM
Firehouse(https://media.tenor.com/images/d3757c6615a216d8dc54d3135fd55ecd/tenor.gif)
Post by: Badger on June 18, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on June 29, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Post by: ons on June 29, 2021, 04:56:45 PM
https://twitter.com/samcrnic/status/1409930973521850370?s=21
Too bad we don't have a TE who can run the route to depth that Zach threw the ball and come down with the catch
Post by: SixFeetDeep on June 29, 2021, 05:31:51 PM
Too bad we don't have a TE who can run the route to depth that Zach threw the ball and come down with the catch
His Name Is Kenny Yeboah
Post by: reuben on June 29, 2021, 06:56:13 PM
His Name Is Kenny Yeboah
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SpiritedGrimyFlyingfox-size_restricted.gif)
Post by: Coach K on June 30, 2021, 08:49:53 AM
I would disappoint her repeatedly.Daddy is packing. I'd break her .
But I could never do that to my boy Kaopono (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210630/0a5d0e707746fc8a99329aec66dd4027.jpg)
Post by: dcm1602 on June 30, 2021, 02:28:18 PM
According to Connor Hughes of The Athletic, No. 2 overall pick Zach Wilson looked "so comfortable" in new Jets OC Mike LaFleur's offense during OTAs and minicamp.
This is our first blurb on Wilson since he was taken with the No. 2 pick. Per Hughes, Wilson was "accurate, aggressive and regularly in control" throughout the spring. All the observations coming out of New York have been positive on Wilson. In what should be a much friendlier offense under LaFleur with a stronger supporting cast that includes Corey Davis, Keelan Cole, Jamison Crowder, Elijah Moore, and Denzel Mims at receiver, there's upside for Wilson, who is also an underrated athlete with his legs. For now, Wilson should be considered a back-end QB2 for fantasy.
Post by: d sw0rdz on June 30, 2021, 02:51:17 PM
Connor still got the kneepads on
According to Connor Hughes of The Athletic, No. 2 overall pick Zach Wilson looked "so comfortable" in new Jets OC Mike LaFleur's offense during OTAs and minicamp.
This is our first blurb on Wilson since he was taken with the No. 2 pick. Per Hughes, Wilson was "accurate, aggressive and regularly in control" throughout the spring. All the observations coming out of New York have been positive on Wilson. In what should be a much friendlier offense under LaFleur with a stronger supporting cast that includes Corey Davis, Keelan Cole, Jamison Crowder, Elijah Moore, and Denzel Mims at receiver, there's upside for Wilson, who is also an underrated athlete with his legs. For now, Wilson should be considered a back-end QB2 for fantasy.
it's nice to hear but it's fluff season and everything always looks rosy this time of year.
i remember our coaches on one jets drive talking about how darnold was going to be a problem and could spin the hell out of the ball during the 2019 summer practices. we don't have to get into the 'why' but we know how it all ended up
i'm just looking forward to seeing the team play and hopefully he plays at a level you'd expect from a rookie QB while showing improvement as the season goes on
Post by: Derek Smalls on July 01, 2021, 06:07:40 PM
it's nice to hear but it's fluff season and everything always looks rosy this time of year.That was such a weird offseason.
i remember our coaches on one jets drive talking about how darnold was going to be a problem and could spin the hell out of the ball during the 2019 summer practices. we don't have to get into the 'why' but we know how it all ended up
i'm just looking forward to seeing the team play and hopefully he plays at a level you'd expect from a rookie QB while showing improvement as the season goes on
That was the only offseason since I've become a Jets fan where the offense was better than the defense according to the beat writers. Every year I can remember, it was all about the defense being the best unit. That was the first time we heard rave reviews about the offense since I could remember. Then Darnold got mono and it was all downhill from there.
Post by: dcm1602 on July 01, 2021, 10:06:21 PM
That was such a weird offseason.
That was the only offseason since I've become a Jets fan where the offense was better than the defense according to the beat writers. Every year I can remember, it was all about the defense being the best unit. That was the first time we heard rave reviews about the offense since I could remember. Then Darnold got mono, had the game of his career, and then it was all downhill from there.
Post by: Heismanberg on July 02, 2021, 10:35:07 AM
This article stinks.
How will Mekhi Becton (who played in an outside zone scheme at Louisville and under Adam Gase) play in an outside zone scheme in 2021?
Becton's run blocking is going to absolutely KILL the quarterback.
Absurd reasoning.
Post by: Johnny English on July 02, 2021, 10:42:18 AM
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/07/02/realistic-expectations-2021-rookie-quarterbacks
This article stinks.
How will Mekhi Becton (who played in an outside zone scheme at Louisville and under Adam Gase) play in an outside zone scheme in 2021?
Becton's run blocking is going to absolutely KILL the quarterback.
Absurd reasoning.
Not to mention, the overarching narrative about Becton prior to him being drafted wasn't about how big he is, but about how athletic he is given his size. He had the same 40 time as Jedrick Wills despite being 50 lbs heavier. Feels like the writer just assumes that because he's massive he must only be able to play power/gap schemes.
Post by: Heismanberg on July 02, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
The parking cones we have projected to play right guard are an issue, especially if Moses wins the RT job. The right side of our offensive line could be swiss cheese in pass protection.
Post by: bojanglesman on July 02, 2021, 10:58:10 AM
Just do some simple research.Why does Moses being the RT make it any worse than Fant?
The parking cones we have projected to play right guard are an issue, especially if Moses wins the RT job. The right side of our offensive line could be swiss cheese in pass protection.
Post by: Heismanberg on July 02, 2021, 12:46:34 PM
Why does Moses being the RT make it any worse than Fant?
Moses is a much better run blocker, but not in pass protection
Post by: Andrew Ryan on July 02, 2021, 12:52:03 PM
Moses is a much better run blocker, but not in pass protection
Yet the Bears wanted to sign him to play left tackle
Post by: MBGreen on July 02, 2021, 01:22:50 PM
Moses is a much better run blocker, but not in pass protection
this is false
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 03, 2021, 07:20:29 AM
The hero this fanbase needs
Post by: Libero_2 on July 03, 2021, 09:46:32 AM
https://twitter.com/nfl_dovkleiman/status/1411089756033892352?s=21
The hero this fanbase needs
There are people that 'only get out of bed because of my instagram' ? that's a thing?
Social media is so much more toxic than it is helpful. People who believe this, and need a social media source to encourage them to get out of bed (or even just to say they do) have real problems and need true support. Instagram and other social media sites and sources are not and will not ever be the help they really need.
Also props to Zach for trying to convince his mother to not be a crazy person on the internet.
Post by: bojanglesman on July 03, 2021, 11:57:42 AM
Post by: Badger on July 09, 2021, 05:11:14 PM
Post by: Johnny English on July 09, 2021, 05:24:30 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRHGj-vBUf5/?utm_medium=copy_link
Looks more like they're going to watch Sam play.
Post by: dcm1602 on July 09, 2021, 05:49:29 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRHGj-vBUf5/?utm_medium=copy_link
Just because nobody ever reads the writing on Instagram the important part
Quote
Incase you didn’t know, JetBlue founder, David Neeleman, is Zach Wilson’s uncle. He wanted to create an opportunity for BYU fans to be able to watch the rivalry game with Utah, and attend Zach’s first regular season start in the NFL. In order to do this, he is chartering a 200 passenger JetBlue A320
Who knew Zach Wilson has an uncle worth half a billion dollars
Post by: Badger on July 09, 2021, 06:59:02 PM
Just because nobody ever reads the writing on Instagram the important partEveryone?
Who knew Zach Wilson has an uncle worth half a billion dollars
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 09, 2021, 08:25:17 PM
Everyone?
Post by: dcm1602 on July 09, 2021, 11:14:11 PM
Everyone?
Did you know he was Mormon? I can't believe it!?
Post by: delavan on July 10, 2021, 06:33:02 AM
Did you know he was Mormon? I can't believe it!?She's an attention whore mom. That said, I'd give her a shot in the derriere.
Post by: bojanglesman on July 10, 2021, 07:59:59 AM
She's an attention whore mom. That said, I'd give her a shot in the derriere.
She would live tweet the post-game report.
Post by: MBGreen on July 10, 2021, 10:18:14 AM
She would live tweet the post-game report.Topless?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 16, 2021, 12:44:18 PM
Post by: MBGreen on July 16, 2021, 01:11:36 PM
https://twitter.com/eoinhiggins_/status/1415790844729348104?s=21
what the freak is an "Eoin"
Post by: Heismanberg on July 16, 2021, 01:13:34 PM
what the freak is an "Eoin"
Probably dcm’s first name
Post by: Johnny English on July 16, 2021, 01:14:30 PM
what the freak is an "Eoin"
It's a fairly common Irish name.
Post by: MBGreen on July 16, 2021, 01:14:33 PM
Probably dcm’s first name
lol
Post by: MBGreen on July 16, 2021, 01:15:04 PM
It's a fairly common Irish name.
because you have to be 3 sheets to the wind in order to pronounce it?
Post by: Johnny English on July 16, 2021, 01:16:40 PM
because you have to be 3 sheets to the wind in order to pronounce it?
It's pronounced like Owen.
Post by: MBGreen on July 16, 2021, 01:19:32 PM
It's pronounced like Owen.
freak you
Post by: Heismanberg on July 16, 2021, 01:19:40 PM
Post by: MBGreen on July 16, 2021, 01:21:03 PM
eeeee-yoin!
(http://www.councilofelrond.com/wp-content/uploads/modules/RPG/pictures/Eowyn%20and%20Faramir-300x255.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on July 16, 2021, 01:23:05 PM
It's pronounced like Owen.
I'm just gonna call him Ewok....pronounced "Ewok"
Post by: Johnny English on July 16, 2021, 01:24:06 PM
eeeee-yoin!
Gray-me
Post by: Derek Smalls on July 26, 2021, 05:49:12 PM
Hanging out in Huntington Beach.
Post by: Johnny English on July 26, 2021, 05:51:46 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on July 26, 2021, 07:00:20 PM
With the rookie payscale the way it is, I can not get my head round how there is ever a delay in getting deals done. This should take a day or two to negotiate and get signed.
For 99% of players it's retarded
Honestly I think this is purely about agents retaining power in some sort of collusionary fashion, in case eventually some drug addict or other convict gets cut and wants to double dip on his rookie contract or the team fight to recoup funds.
For the vast majority of guys it'll make no difference whatsoever, and probably even hurts them in the sense that they miss time their rookie year which can snowball into something worse or increase their odds of getting hurt
Post by: loyaljetsfan on July 26, 2021, 07:12:43 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 26, 2021, 07:14:11 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on July 26, 2021, 07:47:12 PM
Usually when this happens it's injury guarantees and health related excrement. Maybe he isn't vaccinated after all?
Quote
Negotiable items
There are very few negotiable items with rookie contracts anymore. The two primary negotiating issues, particularly at the top of the draft, are the payment schedule of the signing bonus and whether salary guarantees will have offsets. Another important consideration is the language outlining the voiding of salary guarantees.
A majority of rookies didn't sign contracts until the latter part of July as training camp approached before the rookie compensation system was overhauled in the 2011 CBA. In 2010, no player selected in the first two rounds had signed by the fourth of July. First round picks holding out wasn't unusual either. For example, 2007 first overall pick JaMarcus Russell held out for 47 days before signing with the Raiders. Rookie holdouts are largely a thing of the past.
Quote
Agents have essentially lost the battle on offsets. Teams with early first round picks in 2013 were adamant that contracts contain offsets after largely conceding the issue the previous year. Nearly every team besides the Jaguars and the Rams, who don't have a first round pick this year, require offsets with salary guarantees for draft picks, including those selected in the top 10. Based on past practices, first overall pick Trevor Lawrence's contract with the Jaguars shouldn't contain offsets. As a compromise for top 10 picks, including Bosa, most teams structure deals with minimum base salaries in the final three years where the remainder of a player's salary is in annual fully guaranteed third or fifth day of training camp roster bonuses.
More players throughout the first round may push for these training camp roster bonuses with base salary no longer paid over the course of the 18 week regular season. Beginning in 2021, base salary is paid over a period of 36 weeks (twice the number of regular season weeks).
A quarterback has the best chance of extracting a concession on offsets than players at other positions. Mitchell Trubisky, the second overall pick in 2017, signed a deal with the Bears where his $465,000 2017 base salary and training camp roster bonuses in 2018 through 2020, which contain most of the money in the last three years of his contract, don't have offsets.
It will be interesting to see whether Zach Wilson and Trey Lance, the second and third overall picks, respectively, by the Jets and 49ers can get treated in a similar manner as Trubisky was by the Bears. 2020 first overall pick Joe Burrow and 2019 first round pick Kyler Murray's respective contracts with the Bengals and Cardinals have offsets. In the last three years of their contracts, there are minimum base salaries with the rest of the money in fully guaranteed third day of training camp roster bonuses. 2018 first overall pick Baker Mayfield also has offsets. His contract with the Browns is structured like Burrow and Murray's.
Large signing bonuses in NFL contracts aren't typically paid in one lump sum. This is a long accepted practice in the NFL. Signing bonuses for top draft picks are usually paid in two to four installments. Lump sum payments are slowly becoming more accepted at the top of the first round. 2018 third overall pick Sam Darnold's entire $20,078,324 signing bonus was payable by the Jets within 15 days of inking his deal. 2019 second overall pick Nick Bosa got a lump sum payment from the 49ers. His $22,421,356 signing bonus was payable in the same timeframe as Darnold's. 2020 second overall pick Chase Young and Burrow got their respective $22,697,160 and $23,880,100 signing bonuses from the Washington Football Team and Bengals in a lump sum. Burrow's was paid within 15 days of signing. Young got his within 30 days .
Wilson and Lance should have a harder time getting favorable offset language than a lump sum signing bonus payment. The Jets are going to have a tough time reconciling with Wilson's camp that he should be treated like defensive tackle Quinnen Williams, who was 2019's third overall pick, instead of Darnold, another quarterback. Williams received $16,258,293 of his $21,677,724 signing bonus from the Jets within three weeks of signing his contract. The remaining $5,419,431 was paid the following March. Bosa establishes a precedent for Lance to get his signing bonus paid in a lump sum by the 49ers.
Post by: bojanglesman on July 26, 2021, 07:53:31 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on July 26, 2021, 08:00:39 PM
Who cares... It'll be fine.
But what if Wilson wants to get the entirety of his 23 million dollar signing bonus in the month of August and the Jets only want to give him 18 million now and the rest next year?
Depending on the rate of inflation this could have massive economic implications
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 26, 2021, 08:29:01 PM
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 07:23:11 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on July 27, 2021, 07:33:17 AM
Today is the day he signs.
It damn well better be soon.
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 07:38:03 AM
It damn well better be soon.
so hostile
Post by: Libero_2 on July 27, 2021, 07:54:29 AM
so hostile
Yup. This is the most important player drafted in basically all of our lifetimes (simply because no one else worked out/got it done, and he’s the next guy) and we need him in camp getting every possible rep and every opportunity to learn from our coaching staff to give him every possible opportunity to grow and be as successful as possible.
Of course him missing 3 days (or 10 or whatever) of camp won’t make him a good or bad QB over the course of his career, but it obviously won’t hurt to have him there as soon as possible. So let’s get this excrement done.
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 07:57:19 AM
Yup. This is the most important player drafted in basically all of our lifetimes (simply because no one else worked out/got it done, and he’s the next guy) and we need him in camp getting every possible rep and every opportunity to learn from our coaching staff to give him every possible opportunity to grow and be as successful as possible.
Of course him missing 3 days (or 10 or whatever) of camp won’t make him a good or bad QB over the course of his career, but it obviously won’t hurt to have him there as soon as possible. So let’s get this excrement done.
it'll get done. The Jets FO isn't stupid, this is their golden goose.
Post by: dcm1602 on July 27, 2021, 08:24:23 AM
it'll get done. The Jets FO isn't stupid, this is their golden goose.
Welcome to your newfound Jets fandom
I see you have quite a bit to learn, follow these boards and you'll get caught up in no time!
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 08:29:34 AM
Welcome to your newfound Jets fandom
I see you have quite a bit to learn, follow these boards and you'll get caught up in no time!
I'm reborn.
Follow these boards? Muthafuckah, i BUILD these boards.
Post by: Badger on July 27, 2021, 08:45:53 AM
Of course him missing 3 days (or 10 or whatever) of camp won’t make him a good or bad QB over the course of his career, but it obviously won’t hurt to have him there as soon as possible. So let’s get this excrement done.
I'll just be annoyed if he isn't there when I go on Monday.
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 08:49:27 AM
I'll just be annoyed if he isn't there when I go on Monday.
maybe you can take a selfie with his mom. You'll be instagram famous.
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 10:40:16 AM
Yup. This is the most important player drafted in basically all of our lifetimes (simply because no one else worked out/got it done, and he’s the next guy) and we need him in camp getting every possible rep and every opportunity to learn from our coaching staff to give him every possible opportunity to grow and be as successful as possible.
Of course him missing 3 days (or 10 or whatever) of camp won’t make him a good or bad QB over the course of his career, but it obviously won’t hurt to have him there as soon as possible. So let’s get this excrement done.
Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
·
32m
Saleh said Douglas is “working” on Wilson’s contract now and “hopefully” it gets done #Jets
Post by: dcm1602 on July 27, 2021, 10:41:23 AM
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 10:47:42 AM
I remember when Joe Douglas said he was working on Jamal Adams and Marcus Maye's contract too
He never said he was working on their contracts...he said he was planning to.
Semantics are everything.
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Zach Wilson did a thing.....but what about Maye/Adams"
Post by: Badger on July 27, 2021, 10:53:15 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on July 27, 2021, 11:55:24 AM
dcm really can't help himself comparing a couple of safeties to our QB situation. No matter the context.
"Zach Wilson did a thing.....but what about Maye/Adams"
It's about Joe Douglas
He's the GM
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 11:58:48 AM
It's about Joe Douglas
He's the GM
that doesn't deviate from the fact that you keep making dumb comparisons that don't make sense.
Post by: Johnny English on July 27, 2021, 12:29:15 PM
I realise that it's something and nothing, but this excrement should have been sorted out by now. Whether it's Douglas insisting on playing hardball or Wilson's camp being dicks, it doesn't matter. It doesn't look good and it doesn't help an already fragile franchise trying to remake itself. Get it freaking done.
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 27, 2021, 12:30:47 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on July 27, 2021, 12:31:22 PM
that doesn't deviate from the fact that you keep making dumb comparisons that don't make sense.
It only doesn't make sense if you don't make it make sense.
Post by: Johnny English on July 27, 2021, 12:32:03 PM
Was Becton there day 1?
Yes.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nfl/jets-sign-1st-rounder-ot-mekhi-becton-to-1845-million-deal/2020/07/20/f59fe706-caed-11ea-99b0-8426e26d203b_story.html
Post by: dcm1602 on July 27, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
Was Becton there day 1?
Not sure but the entire last offseason is irrelevant in the annals of time.
Plus I imagine there was a huge sense of urgency to sign before a potential cancelation of the season
Post by: MBGreen on July 27, 2021, 12:51:20 PM
It only doesn't make sense if you don't make it make sense.
thanks for proving my point
Post by: Heismanberg on July 27, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Wilson is the only player yet to report to camp. He is one of only two first round picks still to sign (the other being Trey Lance).
I realise that it's something and nothing, but this excrement should have been sorted out by now. Whether it's Douglas insisting on playing hardball or Wilson's camp being dicks, it doesn't matter. It doesn't look good and it doesn't help an already fragile franchise trying to remake itself. Get it freaking done.
Fire Douglas
Post by: Derek Smalls on July 27, 2021, 01:22:19 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on July 27, 2021, 01:27:38 PM
I get that JD doesn’t want to set a precedent, but this is the 3rd highest pick in franchise history (behind Keyshawn Johnson and Joe Namath) and he’s a QB so he has free reign to say to any future #2 overall pick in his tenure that it’s not the same situation.
I just want it done tonight and Zach on a plane to Florham Park ASAP.
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 27, 2021, 01:28:00 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on July 27, 2021, 01:57:54 PM
I’m fairly certain it’s about off-set language as it’s basically the only thing being argued about with rookie contracts these days.
I get that JD doesn’t want to set a precedent, but this is the 3rd highest pick in franchise history (behind Keyshawn Johnson and Joe Namath) and he’s a QB so he has free reign to say to any future #2 overall pick in his tenure that it’s not the same situation.
I just want it done tonight and Zach on a plane to Florham Park ASAP.
Copy pasted an article on the previous page
But it sounds like the biggest holdup is probably going to be the precedent we set with Sam Darnold (vs Q) in regards to how the signing bonus was paid out.
With Williams it was paid out over 2 years, Darnold got the entirety paid out in one lump sum within 15 days of his contract.
Post by: bojanglesman on July 27, 2021, 02:10:00 PM
I’m fairly certain it’s about off-set language as it’s basically the only thing being argued about with rookie contracts these days.
I get that JD doesn’t want to set a precedent, but this is the 3rd highest pick in franchise history (behind Keyshawn Johnson and Joe Namath) and he’s a QB so he has free reign to say to any future #2 overall pick in his tenure that it’s not the same situation.
I just want it done tonight and Zach on a plane to Florham Park ASAP.
It'll be alright. You won't remember any of this in 2 weeks.
Post by: steves850 on July 27, 2021, 03:44:39 PM
It'll be alright. You won't remember any of this in 2 weeks.
This is the way. This is annoying and being the dead part of the year, it'll get headlines but really this will be a distant memory before too long.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on July 27, 2021, 04:06:41 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on July 27, 2021, 04:07:31 PM
Post by: Badger on July 27, 2021, 04:08:26 PM
I think most of us still remember Darnold missing the start of training camp his rookie year over offset language, but that ultimately had zero impact on his success or failure here.I had actually forgotten until this conversation.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on July 27, 2021, 04:14:23 PM
I had actually forgotten until this conversation.
Jimmy Sexton, baby
Post by: dcm1602 on July 27, 2021, 04:56:41 PM
I think most of us still remember Darnold missing the start of training camp his rookie year over offset language, but that ultimately had zero impact on his success or failure here.
That may have been the sole reason he failed, Bowles got fired, and Adam Gase became our head coach.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 29, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 29, 2021, 12:10:27 PM
Schefter
Post by: bojanglesman on July 29, 2021, 12:12:15 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on July 29, 2021, 12:17:48 PM
Post by: Badger on July 29, 2021, 12:20:38 PM
Zach's mom doesn't have to start an onlyfans now.But she will anyway.
Post by: MBGreen on July 29, 2021, 12:21:55 PM
But she will anyway.
I'll be the first to sign up.
excrement, she blocked me.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 29, 2021, 12:22:01 PM
Schefter
LFG
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 29, 2021, 12:25:38 PM
Zach's mom doesn't have to start an onlyfans now.
It’s not about the money it’s about the fans
(https://i.ibb.co/QcR1JJD/A8634-D76-15-B0-4480-9-AFC-85-C2-CA437-F54.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mBwMRRN)
Post by: MBGreen on July 29, 2021, 12:25:50 PM
Post by: MBGreen on July 29, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Jets’ QB Zach Wilson took the red eye from Los Angeles last night to New Jersey this morning. He is ready to start practicing.
Schefter
LFG
*fist pump*
Post by: loyaljetsfan on July 29, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
Post by: MBGreen on July 29, 2021, 12:27:41 PM
@RVacchianoSNY
·
13s
The compromise also includes Zach Wilson getting all of his $22.9 million signing bonus within 15 days, according to a source. So no deferrals.
Post by: Heismanberg on July 29, 2021, 12:44:36 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on July 29, 2021, 01:56:05 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on July 29, 2021, 02:06:30 PM
So Douglas played hardball then just gave Wilson everything anyway.No, he gave him the bonus upfront and got the offsets.
Post by: Badger on July 29, 2021, 02:30:27 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210729/5076bffebf3483200c0ce8c426b516f4.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on July 29, 2021, 02:48:06 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on July 29, 2021, 02:48:39 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on July 29, 2021, 04:09:28 PM
He's right.
I wanted to have some hope this year. Jets tried to ruin that with Wilson showing up late, but we're good now.
Post by: AlioTheFool on July 29, 2021, 06:27:16 PM
No, he gave him the bonus upfront and got the offsets.
My bad. I figured "fully guaranteed" meant the Jets are on the hook for the whole thing.
Post by: Badger on July 29, 2021, 07:10:43 PM
https://twitter.com/jetlifenews/status/1420895021356683268?s=20
Post by: Libero_2 on July 29, 2021, 07:49:04 PM
Now hopefully he just kicks some serious derriere on the field this next month
Post by: reuben on July 30, 2021, 09:38:06 PM
ohlawdhecomin.jpg
Also... Mayfield has the weakest arm on this list. Maybe better than Jackson.
Post by: reuben on August 01, 2021, 05:50:50 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 01, 2021, 06:58:50 PM
Post by: Badger on August 01, 2021, 06:59:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ArdVoC0.jpeg)About to crush the Bio Regents
Post by: delavan on August 01, 2021, 09:08:36 PM
Agreed. Mayfield on par with Aaron Rogers is horseshlt, even at 37 years of age.
Also... Mayfield has the weakest arm on this list. Maybe better than Jackson.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 03, 2021, 10:54:44 AM
Funny that he is exactly half as old as Tom Brady today.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 04, 2021, 11:06:48 AM
He made Wesco good
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 04, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Zach Wilson threw eight passes in the seven-on-seven, red-zone drill from the eight yard line. Six were touchdowns (Davis, Wesco, Griffin, Smith, Kroft, Herndon) #JetsYou could tell me that's Jeff Smith, Vyncint Smith, or some other Smith we've signed that I've completely forgotten about. I'm lost on our Smith situation.
He made Wesco good
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 08, 2021, 04:40:12 PM
elijah moore says wilson is swaggy
white reporter follows it up by asking black guy if zach 'can hoop'
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 08, 2021, 05:06:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84jc7Yyj3vII wonder if the guy in the YouTube comments who says "What a nice smart Christian young man" saw him pee in the Mississippi State endzone.
elijah moore says wilson is swaggy
white reporter follows it up by asking black guy if zach 'can hoop'
Post by: bojanglesman on August 08, 2021, 05:08:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84jc7Yyj3vIThat was Daniel Jeremiah.
elijah moore says wilson is swaggy
white reporter follows it up by asking black guy if zach 'can hoop'
Post by: Badger on August 08, 2021, 05:27:48 PM
I wonder if the guy in the YouTube comments who says "What a nice smart Christian young man" saw him pee in the Mississippi State endzone.Jesus would have done the same thing.
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 08, 2021, 05:34:36 PM
That was Daniel Jeremiah.
is he black?
Post by: bojanglesman on August 08, 2021, 06:36:48 PM
is he black?Yes
Post by: dcm1602 on August 09, 2021, 08:58:21 AM
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-jets-training-camp-scrimmage-zach-wilson-20210808-z43b27tepja4tksq3jxbyofepi-story.html
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 09, 2021, 09:06:51 AM
Post by: ons on August 09, 2021, 12:46:50 PM
Apparently Wilson was terrible at the green and white scrimmage
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-jets-training-camp-scrimmage-zach-wilson-20210808-z43b27tepja4tksq3jxbyofepi-story.html
DJ's such a bland/mediocre writer. Just as happy that they've got a paywall now, I don't think he's capable of writing interesting articles.
Also, obviously you'd like to see Zach do better, but it's expected that he's going to struggle adjusting to NFL speed/NFL timing. Reports and video seem to indicate a lot of his mistakes were overaggressiveness and not anticipating windows closing, which seems expected in early August of his rookie year.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 09, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
DJ's such a bland/mediocre writer.
He has no talent
They hired a lesser version of Charles McDonald in an attempt to make up for the Manish stuff
Post by: insanity on August 09, 2021, 01:49:37 PM
He has no talentYeah, but he keep it a bean doe
Post by: MBGreen on August 09, 2021, 02:41:29 PM
Yeah, but he keep it a bean doe(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210809/989a81ed16cdbe3cb6a49672a8048b4d.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on August 09, 2021, 03:31:44 PM
He has no talent
They hired a lesser version of Charles Barkley in an attempt to make up for the Manish stuff
Fyp
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 09, 2021, 04:56:14 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 10, 2021, 12:31:26 PM
Post by: delavan on August 10, 2021, 01:10:33 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1425130297759252480
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 10, 2021, 01:21:33 PM
Cimini
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2021, 09:57:06 PM
Post by: delavan on August 10, 2021, 11:10:38 PM
"The reality is, the result, especially in training camp, is a much bigger deal for you guys (media) than it is us. His process is exactly where we want it to be. ... The result is a pacifier to make people happy." - Robert Saleh
Post by: dcm1602 on August 11, 2021, 12:05:14 AM
Optimistic theory: the Jets defense is making life hell for Wilson and this will only benefit him come the regular season...
Not to suggest that he's bad.
But experience with Sanchez Geno Darnold leads me to believe that if a guy looks bad in training camp, he's probably going to look bad in the regular season.
Albiet in this case between Covid and the fact that he's been in training camp for like a week means it's very possible he looks better in 3 weeks than he does today
Post by: MexJetinBcn on August 11, 2021, 04:08:45 AM
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24255909/kansas-city-chiefs-qb-patrick-mahomes-plagued-mistakes
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2021, 07:45:04 AM
Optimistic theory: the Jets defense is making life hell for Wilson and this will only benefit him come the regular season...I'm not disagreeing but we've heard this before.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 11, 2021, 07:51:59 AM
Hopefully we lean on the run game and the defense this year.
Post by: MBGreen on August 11, 2021, 08:36:49 AM
Wilson is going to struggle this year. He's going to be the reason we lose a few games. He's going to have a ton of turnovers. He's a rookie and there's a lot he hasn't seen under center. My main hope is that he finishes the year healthy and shows progression at the end of the year.Wilson will be fine.....relax. Have a Fresca.
Hopefully we lean on the run game and the defense this year.
Post by: dcm1602 on August 11, 2021, 08:46:30 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 11, 2021, 10:14:39 AM
Best QB in the league
Post by: Heismanberg on August 11, 2021, 11:18:22 AM
Wilson with a laser on slant to Corey Davis, who finishes play in end zone. Quite a lot of zip on that. Great timing, too, with rush closing on #Jets
Best QB in the league
Best QB of all-time
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1425509471162359816?s=19
Post by: insanity on August 11, 2021, 12:52:26 PM
We talkin bout practiceAnyone else think his voice/accent sound like Tom Brady?
https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1425509471162359816?s=19
Post by: delavan on August 11, 2021, 09:44:55 PM
Zach overall was good, Lawson/Mekhi battle was fun to watch (Lawson looks like the real deal), James Morgan wasn't bad....but Mike White threw a brutal "what were you looking at?!!" pick to Jamien Sherwood (R-Auburn). Too beat/long day - some notes mañana.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 12, 2021, 01:16:43 AM
Wilson is a rookie in his first couple weeks of camp. Way too early to form any opinions on him. Obviously, you would like to hear that he's lighting it up, but it's fine if he isn't.
Hopefully, Wilson is a solid quarterback this year who shows flashes of being really good. If Moore is as advertised, we have good enough wide receivers. If the line can protect, Wilson should get a fair shot to succeed right away.
Post by: dcm1602 on August 12, 2021, 06:17:08 AM
I'm not sure what to think of Becton getting abused by Lawson consistently. I'm hoping that just means Lawson is ready to blossom into a star, and hopefully Becton learns how to adjust.
Wilson is a rookie in his first couple weeks of camp. Way too early to form any opinions on him. Obviously, you would like to hear that he's lighting it up, but it's fine if he isn't.
Hopefully, Wilson is a solid quarterback this year who shows flashes of being really good. If Moore is as advertised, we have good enough wide receivers. If the line can protect, Wilson should get a fair shot to succeed right away.
I obviously haven't watched any of the practices
But is it not possible that poor QB play is making Becton look worse than he has been?
The reports are what they are, but that could explain some of Bectons struggles
Post by: bojanglesman on August 12, 2021, 06:46:56 AM
Explains a lot of what we've seen so far. My QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 12, 2021, 09:33:04 AM
But is it not possible that poor QB play is making Becton look worse than he has been?
No
Post by: reuben on August 12, 2021, 10:10:23 AM
Becton's still developing in pass protection and he's practicing against a worker. If he stays healthy he'll get there.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 12, 2021, 10:20:44 AM
https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1425509471162359816?s=19
Explains a lot of what we've seen so far. My QB.
This reminded me of this:
https://www.businessinsider.com/aaron-rodgers-throws-interceptions-in-practices-2015-8
Post by: delavan on August 12, 2021, 10:21:23 AM
I obviously haven't watched any of the practices
But is it not possible that poor QB play is making Becton look worse than he has been?
The reports are what they are, but that could explain some of Bectons struggles
The idea that Becton is getting non-stop abused by Lawson is an exaggeration. Becton held his own yesterday. Yesterday's practice was cut a little bit short because they're going to be in full pads today (heat). On one play, Lawson took an inside rush and Becton rode him inside as the pass was into the outside flat.
Davis looked good - polished. Michael Perrine had an open hole off left tackle but didn't hit it (vision?) and instead walked into a wall off RG. To his credit he had a great 'totally-laid-out' catch on the sideline for about 10 yards (that and a beautiful fingertip catch by Mims were the best catches of the day). Lots of interchanging OL 1's and 2's during the 11 on 11 scrimmages (again seems like they're saving some gunpowder for today's full pads tilt). Wilson with a bad pass that Mosley nearly picked but after that threw several nice throws - outs & slants.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 12, 2021, 10:22:48 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 12, 2021, 10:24:25 AM
I obviously haven't watched any of the practicesI'm not watching either, but Connor Hughes was saying that Lawson was getting multiple sacks a practice, almost all on Becton, and he's never seen anything like it.
But is it not possible that poor QB play is making Becton look worse than he has been?
The reports are what they are, but that could explain some of Bectons struggles
But poor QB play would have nothing to do with it.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 12, 2021, 10:31:24 AM
Post by: ons on August 12, 2021, 11:04:52 AM
The idea that Becton is getting non-stop abused by Lawson is an exaggeration. Becton held his own yesterday. Yesterday's practice was cut a little bit short because they're going to be in full pads today (heat). On one play, Lawson took an inside rush and Becton rode him inside as the pass was into the outside flat.
Davis looked good - polished. Michael Perrine had an open hole off left tackle but didn't hit it (vision?) and instead walked into a wall off RG. To his credit he had a great 'totally-laid-out' catch on the sideline for about 10 yards (that and a beautiful fingertip catch by Mims were the best catches of the day). Lots of interchanging OL 1's and 2's during the 11 on 11 scrimmages (again seems like they're saving some gunpowder for today's full pads tilt). Wilson with a bad pass that Mosley nearly picked but after that threw several nice throws - outs & slants.
Thanks, love seeing notes like these, somehow managing more overall info than a lot of the twitter play-by-plays from the beat guys.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 12, 2021, 05:22:46 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 13, 2021, 08:54:29 AM
Post by: MBGreen on August 13, 2021, 09:03:56 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on August 13, 2021, 09:23:56 AM
It's going to be fun watching the media eat a colossal amount of turds over these dumbass takes.
Yeah, that never happens. They just pretend no one remembers because usually no one does. Happens in all facets of media. Look at how some are either ignoring or blatantly trying to misdirect off of all the Cuomo praise we saw last year.
To keep it Jets related; anyone else remember when these stupid fucks were calling Q a bust based off his rookie season in which he was 20 years old?
Post by: bojanglesman on August 13, 2021, 10:08:18 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 13, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on August 13, 2021, 11:16:19 AM
I don't think he's going to be a failure or anything, but he's gonna have a rough year. Learn to deal with it.
This.
It's not whether or not he's going to make mistakes and struggle, it's what kind of trajectory he's on as the year continues.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 13, 2021, 11:45:24 AM
Post by: MBGreen on August 13, 2021, 03:19:35 PM
There are so many people ready to grave dance on this kid's career before he's even taken one snap under center. Hope the kid's keeping receipts...This.
It's not like we rebuilt the oline or anything either.
Post by: Coach K on August 13, 2021, 04:30:13 PM
I don't think he's going to be a failure or anything, but he's gonna have a rough year. Learn to deal with it.You really keeping it a bean on this one
Refried even
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 13, 2021, 10:47:09 PM
I hate this hot take culture we live in.
espn nowadays is literally morning/evening sportcenter shows filled in between with an assortment of voices taking part in different 'hot take hour' type shoes one after the other, all literally talking about the same pre-picked topics and saying more or less the same things about them
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 13, 2021, 11:27:36 PM
IIRC Cam Newton was awful in camp and then had an awesome rookie year.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 14, 2021, 03:03:37 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 14, 2021, 03:06:40 PM
Three things:
1. Matt Nagy really dug deep for this play in Preseason Week 1
2. That safety is getting cut before he gets on the team flight
3. dcm could make this throw
Post by: bojanglesman on August 14, 2021, 03:40:07 PM
https://twitter.com/nate_tice/status/1426622606757617667?s=21Shut up he's the greatest QB evar. Canton.
Three things:
1. Matt Nagy really dug deep for this play in Preseason Week 1
2. That safety is getting cut before he gets on the team flight
3. dcm could make this throw
Post by: MBGreen on August 14, 2021, 03:50:00 PM
Shut up he's the greatest QB evar. Canton.Racist
Post by: reuben on August 14, 2021, 03:54:57 PM
Three things:
1. Matt Nagy really dug deep for this play in Preseason Week 1
Thought the same thing. Why are you running that play in exhibition football?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 14, 2021, 04:03:23 PM
Quote
Adam Hoge @AdamHoge
Justin Fields on the speed of the NFL game: “It was actually kind of slow to me to be honest.”
Posting purely for Heis' reaction.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 14, 2021, 04:04:23 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on August 14, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 14, 2021, 04:19:03 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamHoge/status/1426647828932276226
Posting purely for Heis' reaction.
Lmao
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 14, 2021, 04:22:13 PM
As long as Wilson is a star, it won't matter how well Fields or Lawrence or Darnold does.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 14, 2021, 04:32:41 PM
This guy is such a excrement head
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 14, 2021, 05:24:17 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 14, 2021, 06:16:10 PM
Post by: Badger on August 14, 2021, 07:25:14 PM
Post by: Badger on August 14, 2021, 07:29:46 PM
Post by: Badger on August 14, 2021, 09:50:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLrUBMOBVoo
Post by: Laxin on August 14, 2021, 10:21:44 PM
Every Wilson snap in pre-season game 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLrUBMOBVoo
Didn't get a chance to catch the game live, but he looked solid here. Took what was there and looked comfortable.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 14, 2021, 11:28:29 PM
Every Wilson snap in pre-season game 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLrUBMOBVoo
Wilson looks decent.
Also, Feeney getting absolutely demolished at 4:30 really makes me want AVT to recover ASAP.
Post by: ons on August 15, 2021, 10:35:13 AM
Also, Feeney getting absolutely demolished at 4:30 really makes me want AVT to recover ASAP.
If you key on Feeney he's getting beat/not able to move his man on a significant number of the snaps, and he wasn't going against anyone noteworthy. He's a low-end backup for sure.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 15, 2021, 10:47:41 AM
If you key on Feeney he's getting beat/not able to move his man on a significant number of the snaps, and he wasn't going against anyone noteworthy. He's a low-end backup for sure.
I watched that video about 12 times to watch the OLine. Definitely the worst one on the field.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 15, 2021, 11:05:57 AM
If you key on Feeney he's getting beat/not able to move his man on a significant number of the snaps, and he wasn't going against anyone noteworthy. He's a low-end backup for sure.
He did some nice work in the run game early
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 15, 2021, 11:18:19 AM
Post by: delavan on August 15, 2021, 11:21:39 AM
Justin Fields is the greatest QB in the history of espnver.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 15, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
Zach Wilson: 80.3
Mac Jones: 79.5
Justin Fields: 58.7
Trevor Lawrence: 58.7
Trey Lance: 48.8
Haters will say PFF grades are subjective, arbitrary, and completely fabricated
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 15, 2021, 11:28:54 AM
He did some nice work in the run game early
He did some awful work in the run game later.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 15, 2021, 12:01:09 PM
He did some awful work in the run game later.
Guard is pretty difficult when you have bums on both sides of you
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 15, 2021, 12:07:33 PM
Guard is pretty difficult when you have bums on both sides of you
Mekhi Becton?
I mean, it's also difficult when you are a terrible guard.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 15, 2021, 12:13:05 PM
“This guy had fun at some hockey games so I will hate him no matter what.”
Post by: Heismanberg on August 15, 2021, 12:18:57 PM
Valuable, versatile depth
Post by: delavan on August 15, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Every Wilson snap in pre-season game 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLrUBMOBVoo
Wilson looks decent.No fan of Feeney but looking at the 4:30 mark: when the MLB peeled back before the snap Connor McGovern could've been quicker sliding to his left to pinch down on Ray Johnson (NYG-DT). To Feeney's credit, on the Denzil Mims 'breaking tackles' catch, Feeney (and Kenny Yeboah #45 & Corey Levin #65) hustled downfield and gave Mims an additional 5 yards pushing the pile to give the Jets a 1st down (Mims was originally stopped at the 12, 2 yds. short of the 1st:
Also, Feeney getting absolutely demolished at 4:30 really makes me want AVT to recover ASAP.
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1426718624673411076
Post by: Badger on August 15, 2021, 01:20:58 PM
First-round rookie QB preseason debut PFF gradesPFF is racist
Zach Wilson: 80.3
Mac Jones: 79.5
Justin Fields: 58.7
Trevor Lawrence: 58.7
Trey Lance: 48.8
Haters will say PFF grades are subjective, arbitrary, and completely fabricated
Post by: ons on August 15, 2021, 03:44:37 PM
Feeney was driven backwards on one play with the first unit. He didn’t have a bad game.
Valuable, versatile depth
I mean, I'd be the first to tell you I'm not an expert evaluating lineman tape. But when I watch that video, I see him be the only lineman being routinely pushed backwards on run plays, and in one-on-one assignments his man is regularly the first to hit the runner. It looks like he moves well in space and contributes to double teams well, but gets out-leveraged and stood up really easily. He may be versatile but to me he looked like the worst lineman out there:
1:02 mediocre rep, chips and gets to the second level where he doesn't do much in space
1:11 bad rep, shoved into backfield and controlled by dlineman, luckily he's the only lineman who gets beaten so there's a large cutback lane. His man still gets the first hit on the run carrier
2:05 bad rep, stood up and gets controlled at line of scrimmage, rest of the line gets a push and his man makes the tackle for minimal loss
2:17 mediocre rep, gets walked back and turned in pass pro
2:30 mediocre rep, not doing much in space on the backside of a run
2:50 mediocre rep, pulls and gets to his spot but is completely unable to move his man who is in on the tackle at the line of scrimmage
3:23 bad rep, gets controlled at the line, his man gets in on the stop for a short gain
3:47 bad rep, pushed off the line, his man makes the stop for a short gain
4:30 bad rep, gets knocked on his derriere in pass protection
4:40 bad rep, immediately gets tossed aside and his man is the first person to stuff the runner on fourth and short
I think he's been fun this offseason, but I think the less of him we see during the regular season the better.
On topic: I love Wilson's combination of easy/fast release and velocity. I loved it on all his college tape too, but it looks better in a Jets uniform
Post by: Badger on August 15, 2021, 09:45:46 PM
Post by: Badger on August 15, 2021, 11:03:00 PM
https://nypost.com/2021/08/15/one-zach-wilson-skill-has-phil-simms-impressed-with-jets-qb/
Post by: bojanglesman on August 16, 2021, 01:09:18 PM
Post by: MBGreen on August 16, 2021, 01:14:52 PM
I don't have IG, which NY pizza joint did Wilson say was his favorite? Dominos?
Arbys
Post by: Badger on August 16, 2021, 01:31:14 PM
I don't have IG, which NY pizza joint did Wilson say was his favorite? Dominos?Some place in NJ
Post by: Heismanberg on August 16, 2021, 10:05:18 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 17, 2021, 12:59:06 AM
Chris Simms excrement on Chicago and SF for drawing up plays to make their rookie QBs look better against third stringersFields is getting way too much credit for that game nationally.
Post by: Libero_2 on August 17, 2021, 04:30:16 AM
Fields is getting way too much credit for that game nationally.
Well it fits the media narrative that he “should have been the pick all along” so that makes sense he would get over hyped for running around a bunch against guys who will be bagging groceries in September.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 17, 2021, 06:36:20 AM
Fields is getting way too much credit for that game nationally.
So is Lance
Post by: bojanglesman on August 17, 2021, 09:03:03 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 18, 2021, 01:40:37 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 18, 2021, 02:03:12 PM
Post by: reuben on August 18, 2021, 02:38:03 PM
https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1428050327597682693?s=21
Seven?!
freaking hell
Post by: delavan on August 18, 2021, 03:59:53 PM
Seven?!
freaking hell
Seven sacks?! What was this, a teabagger's social?
Wayne Fuckin Becton
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 18, 2021, 06:02:25 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 18, 2021, 07:28:34 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 18, 2021, 07:35:50 PM
Post by: Johnny English on August 19, 2021, 02:14:24 PM
Wilson is “deliberately” trying to stay in pocket so he can work on progressions, per Saleh. When he does leave pocket, he’s realizing that “in college the ball travels faster than the man. But in the NFL, the man travels faster than the ball.” #Jets
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 19, 2021, 03:57:05 PM
Post by: Badger on August 19, 2021, 06:04:29 PM
So when does Wilson get diagnosed with Leporsy and his arm falls off?At least he won't get mono.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 19, 2021, 06:37:29 PM
Hughes
Post by: bojanglesman on August 19, 2021, 09:05:53 PM
Zach Wilson was 10 of 18 in the team period today. He had one touchdown, an interception and was sacked five times. #JetsThis is a Bean-only board. Take your amateur hour shitposting elsewhere.
Hughes
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 19, 2021, 09:10:01 PM
This is a Bean-only board. Take your amateur hour shitposting elsewhere.
I'm just glad we still got to nickname someone beans even after we didn't hire Bieniemy.
Post by: MBGreen on August 20, 2021, 07:05:06 AM
Tony Romo FTW
Post by: reuben on August 20, 2021, 07:10:43 AM
https://twitter.com/HomeoftheJets1/status/1428665347826200581?s=20
Tony Romo FTW
https://youtu.be/IjUOsejbmiw?t=36 (https://youtu.be/IjUOsejbmiw?t=36)
Post by: MBGreen on August 20, 2021, 07:13:40 AM
https://youtu.be/IjUOsejbmiw?t=36 (https://youtu.be/IjUOsejbmiw?t=36)
just an iota of optimism/happiness....i'm not even allowed that. Thanks, jcotchrocket.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 20, 2021, 08:09:55 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 20, 2021, 08:16:49 AM
https://youtu.be/IjUOsejbmiw?t=36 (https://youtu.be/IjUOsejbmiw?t=36)
If you didn’t I was gonna
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 20, 2021, 08:21:06 AM
Post by: reuben on August 20, 2021, 08:45:41 AM
just an iota of optimism/happiness....i'm not even allowed that. Thanks, jcotchrocket.
haha
Post by: Badger on August 20, 2021, 09:49:08 AM
https://youtu.be/IjUOsejbmiw?t=36 (https://youtu.be/IjUOsejbmiw?t=36)That was an awful comparison and I would have said so even when I was high on Darnold.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 22, 2021, 10:14:05 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on August 22, 2021, 10:15:51 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9WH_xCWQAQFxlE?format=jpg&name=large)"Someday, I'll be able to grow a sweet 'stache and mullet like that."
Post by: delavan on August 22, 2021, 01:20:44 PM
Q: Aaron Rodgers & Jordan Love: will the Pack keep a 3rd QB and if not should the Jets pick up Kurt Benkert? Guys knows the offense and he looked better than White/Morgan.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 23, 2021, 07:51:12 AM
Quote
https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1429768608511574016
Post by: Johnny English on August 23, 2021, 12:55:49 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 23, 2021, 06:09:08 PM
Oh
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 24, 2021, 12:08:40 PM
Zach Wilson: 137.3
Bryce Petty: 85.2
Sam Darnold: 82.3
Mark Sanchez: 82.3
Geno Smith: 54.6
Christian Hackenberg: 35.7
Nania
Post by: Badger on August 24, 2021, 03:20:46 PM
Passer rating through first 2 career preseason gamesNot sure what I can draw from this.
Zach Wilson: 137.3
Bryce Petty: 85.2
Sam Darnold: 82.3
Mark Sanchez: 82.3
Geno Smith: 54.6
Christian Hackenberg: 35.7
Nania
Post by: reuben on August 24, 2021, 03:23:11 PM
Not sure what I can draw from this.
SBTCH?
Post by: dcm1602 on August 24, 2021, 03:27:43 PM
Not sure what I can draw from this.
Getting rid of Bryce Petty was one of this franchises biggest mistakes
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 25, 2021, 08:21:29 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 25, 2021, 09:41:58 AM
Not sure what I can draw from this.
Kellen Clemens doesn’t stand the test of time
Post by: MBGreen on August 25, 2021, 11:33:58 AM
Kellen Clemens doesn’t stand the test of time
false
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 25, 2021, 12:34:32 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 25, 2021, 12:37:58 PM
We hired Matt Cavanaugh to replace Greg Knapp.
Mark Sanchez's QB coach
Post by: MBGreen on August 25, 2021, 12:52:06 PM
We hired Matt Cavanaugh to replace Greg Knapp.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/jOpLbiGmHR9S0/200.gif)
Post by: Heismanberg on August 25, 2021, 12:58:12 PM
Post by: MBGreen on August 25, 2021, 01:02:40 PM
A guy that has coached QBs for 30 years is a pretty strong hire for "passing game specialist"
is he though?
"strong hires" usually aren't available at this time of the year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 25, 2021, 01:08:26 PM
is he though?He is probably as good as you can ask for at this point. He got run out of Washington and was either retired or just out of the NFL last year.
"strong hires" usually aren't available at this time of the year.
Post by: MBGreen on August 25, 2021, 01:10:08 PM
He is probably as good as you can ask for at this point. He got run out of Washington and was either retired or just out of the NFL last year.
You'd think they would've tried a little harder to revive Knapp before calling Cavanaugh
Post by: Johnny English on August 25, 2021, 01:11:09 PM
Post by: reuben on August 25, 2021, 01:14:02 PM
Post by: MBGreen on August 25, 2021, 01:17:30 PM
I think you could be a bit nicer about the man who coached Trent Dilfer to a Super Bowl ring.
Trent Dilfer haha
Post by: bojanglesman on August 25, 2021, 03:02:25 PM
He needs the experience, but this is a morph of the game we used to play the starters the most and the least (PS week 3 and 4). Can't be afraid all the time though.
You're gonna see the beat writers bring this up so they have the "told ya so" in place ahead of time to bash the coaches.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 25, 2021, 03:09:30 PM
It's the final audition for QB2 so Morgan should get most of the game if White is hurt.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 25, 2021, 04:02:44 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on August 25, 2021, 04:23:08 PM
Put Mark Sanchez in thereI'd be fine with Nacho as the vet backup at this point. At least it would be fun. Season would be fucked anyway.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 25, 2021, 04:38:36 PM
Put Mark Sanchez in there
One of the dumbest coaching decisions of all-time
Post by: Badger on August 25, 2021, 10:06:52 PM
One of the dumbest coaching decisions of all-timeI still blame Idzik
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 27, 2021, 08:57:12 AM
I didn't like this movie the last time I saw it.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 27, 2021, 10:06:29 AM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1430565798544822274?s=19 (https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1430565798544822274?s=19)
I didn't like this movie the last time I saw it.
here comes the gase laser eyes
Post by: dcm1602 on August 27, 2021, 11:00:36 AM
I think it makes plenty of sense to let them get some snaps. If anyone gets hurt in a quarter or half, well there's 17 freaking weeks of the season so they'd have plenty of chances at getting hurt anyway.
If we were an older veteran team making a SB run I can see the logic, but that's not us.
However one thing I do agree with is we shouldn't be putting ZW out behind backups
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 27, 2021, 11:14:27 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 27, 2021, 12:12:00 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 27, 2021, 12:33:45 PM
If Becton doesn't play, Wilson shouldn't play.
I agree with this.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 27, 2021, 12:38:47 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on August 27, 2021, 03:52:27 PM
Post by: Johnny English on August 27, 2021, 03:57:02 PM
It's pouring at Metlife. Sit Wilson.
I've never been to Utah but given how much good skiing they apparently have, I'm guessing football season in Salt Lake City sees a fair amount of rain. So it's not like he needs to get acclimatized to throwing a wet ball.
I tend to agree with the view that what he and we might learn from playing a half of football tonight is probably less important than him suiting up in two weeks' time.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 27, 2021, 04:14:58 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on August 27, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 27, 2021, 04:47:00 PM
"Zach Wilson tears ACL on sideline when player slides out of bounds into him."
dont you dare
Post by: dcm1602 on August 27, 2021, 04:57:18 PM
Literally the point of this season is for the young guys to get reps get experience and get better
Unless you're talking about putting him in with the 3rd string there's no reason not to play him
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 27, 2021, 05:02:35 PM
I don't get this logic of sitting him
Literally the point of this season is for the young guys to get reps get experience and get better
Unless you're talking about putting him in with the 3rd string there's no reason not to play him
experience matters in meaningful moments/situations
i dont know what the state of our team or of the eagles will be tonight, but meaningless reps with and against the second and turd string players on the jets and eagles respectively ultimately does nothing for him in the long run
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 27, 2021, 05:39:08 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on August 27, 2021, 06:08:31 PM
The field is a mess and the game's delayed. At this point, it would be idiotic to play anyone we expect to play meaningful snaps during the season.
I just saw about the weather
Not playing him under those conditions I completely agree with
Post by: reuben on August 30, 2021, 07:55:10 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on August 30, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Post by: Badger on August 30, 2021, 09:01:03 PM
(https://i.redd.it/q3qipcvg5lk71.jpg)Is this gonna be the thread title? I don't want to leave it in the draft format much longer.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 30, 2021, 09:28:04 PM
Is this gonna be the thread title? I don't want to leave it in the draft format much longer.
Just hit save already.
Post by: Johnny English on August 30, 2021, 10:29:37 PM
Is this gonna be the thread title? I don't want to leave it in the draft format much longer.Make it so Number One.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 31, 2021, 05:25:13 AM
Post by: Johnny English on September 02, 2021, 12:48:00 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 02, 2021, 12:51:58 PM
Romo says he believes that Zach will turn the franchise around and be a top 5 QB within the next couple of years. I know he's got something nice to say about pretty much every quarterback but it's still good to hear.Always good to hear but he had similar praise for Sam. Hopefully this works out better with a better support group.
Post by: Johnny English on September 02, 2021, 12:53:49 PM
Always good to hear but he had similar praise for Sam. Hopefully this works out better with a better support group.
I have almost exactly 10 days of optimism and positivity left before being provided with evidence to dispel it. Let me have this.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 02, 2021, 01:09:10 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 02, 2021, 01:09:54 PM
I'm just bracing myself for the inevitable avalanche of "told you so" takes if Wilson struggles week 1.
From who? Who told you that Wilson would struggle? I've heard really nothing but positivity so far.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 02, 2021, 01:15:51 PM
From who? Who told you that Wilson would struggle? I've heard really nothing but positivity so far.
You're right that most people have been impressed with Wilson's performance so far (even those who weren't fans of his in the lead-up to the draft) but there are plenty of those who were adamant that taking him at #2 was a mistake and are just itching for the opportunity to have their opinions vindicated. Colin Cowherd and Mel Kiper are the first two and perhaps highest profile people who come to mind but there are many others, particularly those Justin Fields fanatics...
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 02, 2021, 01:28:16 PM
I think people are gradually coming around to the fact that the kid is insanely talented.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 02, 2021, 02:10:53 PM
From who? Who told you that Wilson would struggle? I've heard really nothing but positivity so far.
I say he'll struggle. My hope for week 1 is that he doesn't turn it over too much and shows some ability to move the chains.
Post by: klaximilian on September 02, 2021, 03:54:16 PM
I think one of them will make the pro bowl, and all 3 them will make it next year. And with Saleh at the helm, I haven't been this excited since to be a Jets fan since 2010.
BRB, putting some decent money on Wilson winning ROY.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 03, 2021, 08:48:33 AM
Quote
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tony-romo-believes-jets-zach-205516346.html
Romo is on the hype train
Post by: bojanglesman on September 03, 2021, 09:13:44 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 03, 2021, 09:54:41 AM
Post by: delavan on September 03, 2021, 09:56:38 AM
On the 'D' side, 2/3 of the starting LBs may be converted rookie safeties fronting a very inexperienced set of CBs. I'm amped about the kids & the new CS but I have no illusions that this is going to come together in 2021. Throw in the 2022 draft (Lawson? FAs), stir to blend, and then I can see it starting to jell For 2021: just keep a 'progressing nicely' Zach in one piece.
Post by: Badger on September 03, 2021, 10:00:34 AM
I expect him to be the least turnover prone of the past three QBs we took in the first round. That's about as far out on the limb as I'm willing to walk.Seems like a reasonable floor.
Post by: mj2sexay on September 03, 2021, 10:02:42 AM
As much as I have sky high expectations for the player, they're tempered by my decidedly low expectations for the team this year. Love the optimism from some of you, but even before Lawson's injury, I thought this was a 6-11 season at best.
If the offense is on an upward trajectory along with the quarterback by the end of the year, I honestly don't even care about another finish in the AFC's basement.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 03, 2021, 10:04:30 AM
Zach is going to struggle even before we start losing key starters on offense due to injury. I think the WR depth has been vastly improved and will weather the storm with injuries better than the OL. The OL is much better regarding the starters, but depth is not better. With the exception of RT, any of the OL starters go down and we are worlds worse.
I have no idea what the defense will be, but if the secondary can't be at least average in zone coverage, it won't be good. I don't think we will get the pressure on the QB many think we will.
One hand, I want Zach to be smart and take what the defense gives, but I don't want him to be Checkdown Charlie. I want to see him take some shots and show the ability to make plays, even if it means some turnovers. It's a balance. So far he's shown that willingness to take shots.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 03, 2021, 10:28:15 AM
Seems like a reasonable floor.
A lot of that is going to depend on the OLine and the WR corps. AVT hasn’t seen much work with the starters since his injury, Crowder already tweaked his hamstring, and Moore has been out for a lot of TC so it’s not a guarantee. Hopefully his connections with Kroft and Davis remain solid.
Post by: Badger on September 03, 2021, 10:32:47 AM
I'm higher on the starting OL than most until the injury bug hits and the backups enter.Brady was captain checkdown until he got Randy Moss, don't know why people don't admit this.
Zach is going to struggle even before we start losing key starters on offense due to injury. I think the WR depth has been vastly improved and will weather the storm with injuries better than the OL. The OL is much better regarding the starters, but depth is not better. With the exception of RT, any of the OL starters go down and we are worlds worse.
I have no idea what the defense will be, but if the secondary can't be at least average in zone coverage, it won't be good. I don't think we will get the pressure on the QB many think we will.
One hand, I want Zach to be smart and take what the defense gives, but I don't want him to be Checkdown Charlie. I want to see him take some shots and show the ability to make plays, even if it means some turnovers. It's a balance. So far he's shown that willingness to take shots.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 03, 2021, 10:37:50 AM
Brady was captain checkdown until he got Randy Moss, don't know why people don't admit this.
Fun fact: the season before Randy Moss showed up he actually through down field more than the season with Randy Moss.
Post by: MBGreen on September 03, 2021, 04:31:40 PM
Lot of people need to settle down. I'm hopeful he'll be the guy, but Jesus it's early. No one on here, but lots of idiots talking about him being really good from day 1. Slow down.17-0
Post by: dcm1602 on September 03, 2021, 04:40:42 PM
Count me in
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 03, 2021, 08:57:01 PM
17-0
This looks so weird.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 03, 2021, 09:02:50 PM
This looks so weird.
More interestingly it's possible the next team to go 16-0 finishes 16-1
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 03, 2021, 09:15:16 PM
More interestingly it's possible the next team to go 16-0 finishes 16-1
I hate this so much
Post by: Johnny English on September 03, 2021, 09:15:41 PM
More interestingly it's possible the next team to go 16-0 finishes 16-1That's not interesting at all.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 04, 2021, 12:09:41 AM
That's not interesting at all.
I'll make sure to bump this when Mac Jones loses that 17th game
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 05, 2021, 12:12:07 AM
https://twitter.com/1TimMurray/status/1434382954512322560?s=20
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 05, 2021, 10:03:01 AM
Zach is in Vegas tonight. If I see him, I will give him reverse Gase eyes.
https://twitter.com/1TimMurray/status/1434382954512322560?s=20
“I shook his hand breed tub and walked away”
Post by: bojanglesman on September 05, 2021, 11:39:45 AM
This dude sure has a boner for pointing out bad excrement about Wilson. I mean, yeah he's ignorant about wearing a mask, but I believe they were shitting on him about it a few months ago too.
Post by: delavan on September 05, 2021, 07:51:34 PM
https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1434350667028598788?s=19
This dude sure has a boner for pointing out bad excrement about Wilson. I mean, yeah he's ignorant about wearing a mask, but I believe they were shitting on him about it a few months ago too.
Fortunately that 'dude' wasn't you waving an attack-driven flag at Zach the whack.
We'll find about Zach-the youngster in due time......I'll still take 'his wing' over Justin ESPN.
Post by: delavan on September 05, 2021, 09:22:01 PM
Post by: delavan on September 05, 2021, 09:23:08 PM
????
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 06, 2021, 11:00:44 AM
Post by: Badger on September 09, 2021, 08:38:17 PM
https://www.deseret.com/sports/2021/9/8/22648891/the-education-of-zach-wilson-new-york-jets-byu-nfl-football
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 09, 2021, 11:06:54 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 10, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
"Zach Wilson detaches retina looking at too much tape. Blinded for life. Out 4-6 weeks."
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2021, 05:10:22 PM
Quote
Wilson says his neck is sore after today’s game. Said he had some “whiplash” #Jets
#Jets
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2021, 05:46:51 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 12, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 12, 2021, 06:13:09 PM
DJ Bean gonna write an article about Wilson having “whup lashes”Wimp lashes
Post by: delavan on September 12, 2021, 08:24:06 PM
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/zach-wilson-week-1-jets-panthers-breakdown
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2021, 08:28:38 AM
Under duress. 0-7. 3-6
15+ air yards. 0-3. 4-5
3rd down. 0-4. 3-5.
#Jets @NextGenStats
Post by: Laxin on September 13, 2021, 10:03:13 AM
His entire development hinges on the offensive line. I'm sure his inexperience led to some free rushers, but the coaching staff has to make things easier for him. BB is going to test this OL again next week, so there better be some adjustments made.
Post by: ScotlandJet on September 13, 2021, 10:42:06 AM
I personally was really encouraged by his performance yesterday. I thought he was the least of our concerns on offense. When he had more than 2 seconds, he went through his reads and made mostly good decisions and throws. You saw every bit of talent that people praised him for, and I don't think you can question the kid's heart or toughness after probably getting a low grade concussion and then stepping up 1 minute later and throwing a dart for a TD.
His entire development hinges on the offensive line. I'm sure his inexperience led to some free rushers, but the coaching staff has to make things easier for him. BB is going to test this OL again next week, so there better be some adjustments made.
Agree completley. This is one tough kid and he's going to have to be playing behind that cheescloth O line.
Lots to be optimistic about if we can keep him healthy.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 13, 2021, 06:09:35 PM
But if they don't find guys to protect him quickly, it's going to be a short trip to bustville, just like every other QB for this team this century.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 13, 2021, 09:22:20 PM
You saw from their willingness to punt from the 33 they were being incredibly conservative. I wonder how much that carried over to the defensive play calling
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 14, 2021, 07:52:15 PM
https://twitter.com/lukegrant7/status/1437769669323132937?s=21
https://twitter.com/lukegrant7/status/1437908795049406464?s=21
Post by: Libero_2 on September 14, 2021, 08:47:08 PM
https://twitter.com/lukegrant7/status/1437761199743987721?s=21
https://twitter.com/lukegrant7/status/1437769669323132937?s=21
https://twitter.com/lukegrant7/status/1437908795049406464?s=21
Grant loves Wilson. Granted so do we, but it’s still nice to see people really excited about what Wilson is already able to do
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 16, 2021, 04:11:34 PM
This is a great answer (even though I think the question is fine).
https://twitter.com/OptimisticJets/status/1438595191422783493
Post by: Libero_2 on September 16, 2021, 06:26:57 PM
I love his press conferences. Could easily see why teammates would respect him. Really smart kid, and he showed his toughness during the game, too.
This is a great answer (even though I think the question is fine).
https://twitter.com/OptimisticJets/status/1438595191422783493
It is a hell of an answer.
Post by: Badger on September 16, 2021, 09:32:22 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 12:19:13 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 12:42:00 PM
Quote
Zach Wilson hit 59.99 MPH on a throw this week. The highest pass velocity on a throw this year.
https://twitter.com/swami_ea/status/1439994249336983554?s=21
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 12:52:35 PM
Post by: Badger on September 20, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
https://twitter.com/swami_ea/status/1439994249336983554?s=21Neat
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 02:33:52 PM
Zach Wilson (QB29, 58.5)
Justin Fields (QB32, 54.2)
Trevor Lawrence (QB33, 47.8]
Post by: MBGreen on September 20, 2021, 03:28:50 PM
All my homies love PFF
Zach Wilson (QB29, 58.5)
Justin Fields (QB32, 54.2)
Trevor Lawrence (QB33, 47.8]
Uncle Zacky?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:17:45 PM
Post by: insanity on September 20, 2021, 04:41:54 PM
Zach played pretty inexplicably bad yesterday, but Belichick has a well-documented history of making rookie quarterbacks look inexplicably bad, so we shouldn't overreact. I'm just eager to see how he responds against another tough defense in the Broncos.I'm known to where green lenses, but I don't think he played that poorly. He threw two bad interceptions, but he never looked like he didn't belong. He never looked shaken. He looked like a rookie that mad mistakes. This is different than darnold throwing balls where you were literally dumbfounded as to how that was a decision that's seemed teasonable.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:59:47 PM
This is different than darnold throwing balls where you were literally dumbfounded as to how that was a decision that's seemed teasonable.
The 3rd interception fit that description for me, but other than that I agree.
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2021, 06:57:18 PM
Belichick has a well-documented history of making rookie quarterbacks look inexplicably bad
It's not inexplicable. That's a smart, experienced secondary with a couple of talented ball hawks who know exactly when and how to jump a route, coached by a guy with a long history of creating funky looks to disguise their coverages. Much more experienced QBs than Wilson have been tormented by Belichick's defenses.
The positive I'm going to cling onto here is that Wilson got a sharp lesson yesterday in taking what's there rather than trying to force big plays to happen.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 20, 2021, 09:15:33 PM
I'm known to where green lenses, but I don't think he played that poorly. He threw two bad interceptions, but he never looked like he didn't belong. He never looked shaken. He looked like a rookie that mad mistakes. This is different than darnold throwing balls where you were literally dumbfounded as to how that was a decision that's seemed teasonable.
this isn't to dump on him but he threw three very bad picks and at least two of them left me dumbfounded as to where he was actually trying to go. i'm not even sure if two is the correct number as i've already started to erase the game from my memory.
i think it was MB who brought this up, what gives me the most hope is that justin herbert got torched by the pats 45-0 last year and he still ended up with a pretty great rookie season. i hope this is what this turns out to be, a very bad blemish on an otherwise promising rookie year for our qb.
Post by: MBGreen on September 22, 2021, 11:22:19 AM
@RichCimini
·
3m
Zach Wilson is dealing with a minor groin injury. He will be a full participant today and will play. Saleh is not worried. #Jets
Post by: Badger on September 22, 2021, 11:25:53 AM
Rich CiminiCongrats on the sex
@RichCimini
·
3m
Zach Wilson is dealing with a minor groin injury. He will be a full participant today and will play. Saleh is not worried. #Jets
Post by: bojanglesman on September 22, 2021, 11:26:18 AM
Congrats on the sex
Not married, not possible. Illegal in fact.
Post by: MBGreen on September 22, 2021, 11:31:39 AM
Not married, not possible. Illegal in fact.
with his mom
Post by: bojanglesman on September 22, 2021, 12:04:16 PM
with his momThat doesn't count. You can go back in where you came out in their religion.
Post by: Johnny English on September 23, 2021, 12:05:06 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on September 23, 2021, 05:18:42 AM
Post by: Johnny English on September 23, 2021, 08:28:47 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 23, 2021, 08:41:57 AM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1440803705717100548?s=21
Finally the Jets got something right and drafted a QB better than Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers
Post by: Badger on September 23, 2021, 09:26:13 AM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1440803705717100548?s=21Spin: Wilson and Lawrence ranked among reigning MVP, SB winners, and rising star
Post by: dcm1602 on September 23, 2021, 09:46:00 AM
Spin: Wilson and Lawrence ranked among reigning MVP, SB winners, and rising star
The real spin is imagine how shitty we'd all be feeling if we ended up getting trever Lawrence and he was playing like this, as statistically one of the worst 1st overall picks of all time.
Or to make it doubly worse, imagine if we freaking had him doing this and Urban Meyers
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 23, 2021, 11:03:42 AM
The real spin is imagine how shitty we'd all be feeling if we ended up getting trever Lawrence and he was playing like this, as statistically one of the worst 1st overall picks of all time.How is it any different with Lawrence struggling or Wilson struggling?
Or to make it doubly worse, imagine if we freaking had him doing this and Urban Meyers
Post by: dcm1602 on September 23, 2021, 11:12:40 AM
How is it any different with Lawrence struggling or Wilson struggling?
Because everything and everyone made a huge deal about the Jets winning a few meaningless games and missing out on the greatest QB prospect of all time.
Imagine how we'd all feel if we lucked our way into the greatest QB prospect of all time, and he starts the season as a historically bad 1st overall pick.
It's 2 games, so there's nothing to be made about Wilson or Lawrence. I get it. But I think it's a safe assumption that Jaguars fans are way more miserable than us right now
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 23, 2021, 11:40:05 AM
Because everything and everyone made a huge deal about the Jets winning a few meaningless games and missing out on the greatest QB prospect of all time.I still fail to see how it makes any difference whatsoever. Both the Jets and Jaguars drafted quarterbacks to be their franchise guys. Doesn't matter who went 1st or 2nd anymore. Both have struggled, but it's 2 games so it's mostly meaningless for now.
Imagine how we'd all feel if we lucked our way into the greatest QB prospect of all time, and he starts the season as a historically bad 1st overall pick.
It's 2 games, so there's nothing to be made about Wilson or Lawrence. I get it. But I think it's a safe assumption that Jaguars fans are way more miserable than us right now
Jaguars fans may be more miserable because the coach looks worse, but the QB situation is the same.
If you want to argue that we feel better as Jets fans that Lawrence doesn't look like an instant star, that's probably correct. But I don't understand the point you're making.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 23, 2021, 12:33:21 PM
Rookies, especially QBs on bad teams, usually struggle.
Post by: Badger on September 23, 2021, 12:36:24 PM
It's 2 games, so there's nothing to be made about Wilson or Lawrence. I get it. But I think it's a safe assumption that Jaguars fans are way more miserable than us right now
Based on the Jags fans I've interacted with online they deserve it tbh.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 23, 2021, 01:37:59 PM
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
3m
Zach Wilson is dealing with a minor groin injury. He will be a full participant today and will play. Saleh is not worried. #Jets
It's being reported that the injury happened in week 1.
So now we can all use the Zach was playing injured against New England excuse
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 23, 2021, 02:53:29 PM
It's being reported that the injury happened in week 1.Good, just like we retroactively gave Darnold the mono excuse against Buffalo.
So now we can all use the Zach was playing injured against New England excuse
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2021, 10:00:05 AM
@Michael_Nania
·
19m
Zach Wilson threw 5 completions for 20+ yards against the Panthers defense
Jameis Winston and Davis Mills threw 3 — combined.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 24, 2021, 10:10:08 AM
Michael Nania
@Michael_Nania
·
19m
Zach Wilson threw 5 completions for 20+ yards against the Panthers defense
Jameis Winston and Davis Mills threw 3 — combined.
Nania is the cherry picking GOAT
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 10:36:54 AM
Quote
Zach Wilson's average time to either get a pass off or for the pocket to collapse is 1.7 seconds.
He's been sacked 15 times (most in NFL), Hurried 14 times (2nd most in NFL) Pressured 33 times (most in NFL) - His pressure % is 27% (2nd most among 3 game starters)
Seems like not a great way to develop a QB. We already tried this with Darnold and it didn’t work.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 27, 2021, 10:37:35 AM
Seems like not a great way to develop a QB. We already tried this with Darnold and it didn’t work.Maybe they thought they didn't do it enough with Darnold.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2021, 01:16:19 PM
Seems like not a great way to develop a QB. We already tried this with Darnold and it didn’t work.
We tried it with Sanchez too.
Third time's a charm, clearly.
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2021, 01:20:30 PM
We tried it with Sanchez too.
Third time's a charm, clearly.
That's not really true. We gave Sanchez an elite line and a punishing run game for the first two years of his career. By the time we lost a couple of players and replaced them with slightly less good pieces (or in the case of Wayne Hunter, completely wastes of space) it was reasonably expected that Sanchez might have got a bit better at reading the field and the game, and being responsible with the ball.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 02:22:38 PM
Quote
Through three games, #Jets QB Zach Wilson is completing 55.2 percent of his passes. That is not good.
His adjusted completion percentage, which takes into account drops & things of that nature, is 70.4% (!)
Jets, yet again, failing to help young QB. Wilson also sacked 15 times
Hughes
Post by: Badger on September 27, 2021, 02:30:32 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 27, 2021, 02:34:56 PM
Hughes
70% is a great completion percentage, but without context this means excrement.
Unless someone on here masturbates to PFF (or whoever makes this statistic) 70% means nothing.
That could be the best adjusted completion percentage in the league, or ranked 32nd.
Just for some context there's 25 QBs with an actual completion percentage over 67%.
So my guess is that yes Zach has gotten hit by drops worse than most, even with this adjusted fantasy statistic he would very likely still be bottom 3 in the NFL in completion %
Post by: dcm1602 on September 27, 2021, 02:37:08 PM
What other things besides drops?
Quote
but also factors out those passes that were batted at the line of scrimmage, thrown away, spiked, and even those that resulted from the quarterback being hit in their throwing motion.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2021, 03:30:17 PM
That's not really true. We gave Sanchez an elite line and a punishing run game for the first two years of his career. By the time we lost a couple of players and replaced them with slightly less good pieces (or in the case of Wayne Hunter, completely wastes of space) it was reasonably expected that Sanchez might have got a bit better at reading the field and the game, and being responsible with the ball.
Which of the great QBs did what they did with a poor OL? At any point in their career?
If you let your line fall apart, or don't have one in the first place, all the QB talent in the world is never going to be enough.
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2021, 05:54:54 PM
Which of the great QBs did what they did with a poor OL? At any point in their career?
If you let your line fall apart, or don't have one in the first place, all the QB talent in the world is never going to be enough.
Sure, but the point was that we never gave Sam a serviceable OL and he never developed as a result, and that so far we're on a similar track with Zach. You said we did the same with Sanchez, and we didn't.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2021, 06:03:18 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2021, 08:24:54 PM
Sure, but the point was that we never gave Sam a serviceable OL and he never developed as a result, and that so far we're on a similar track with Zach. You said we did the same with Sanchez, and we didn't.
We gave Sanchez a pretty good line his first couple of years. They made the title game. When the line took a downturn, so did his career.
Most teams have crappy offensive lines. The best quarterbacks can overcome it go varying degrees. Obviously it is ideal for a young QB to have an effective line though.
Which of the best QBs in their good years overcame crappy offensive lines?
Post by: insanity on September 27, 2021, 08:48:28 PM
Which of the great QBs did what they did with a poor OL? At any point in their career?Russ
If you let your line fall apart, or don't have one in the first place, all the QB talent in the world is never going to be enough.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2021, 09:05:54 PM
Russ
I guess that's fair. Has his OL been that bad? I don't follow west coast teams enough to say, but I'll take your word for it.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on September 27, 2021, 09:08:50 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2021, 09:16:48 PM
Horrible, but he's super mobile. I don't if we can generalize out of his example.
In fairness, I asked for an example, and someone had one.
I still maintain a solid OL is critical to QB success, but that answer was valid.
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2021, 09:17:10 PM
We gave Sanchez a pretty good line his first couple of years. They made the title game. When the line took a downturn, so did his career.
Which of the best QBs in their good years overcame crappy offensive lines?
The 2006 Colts line wasn't anything special, the guy behind it was. Jeff Saturday was obviously elite and Glenn was Hall Of Very Good material, but I don't think the rest were anything to write home about. Similar to MexJet's disclaimer about Russ though, I'm not sure that any Peyton Manning led offense can be used to prove a point given the exceptionalism of the guy running it.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 27, 2021, 09:43:12 PM
Russ
Russ also had a pretty a impressive running back to keep defenses honest
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 09:49:58 PM
Quote
Jets second in the league in total drops with 11. 1st in drops per target. 11.2% of Zach Wilsons targets have been dropped.
NFL Median rate is 4.8%
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2021, 09:53:17 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2021, 10:01:02 PM
Obviously I want the Jets to build the wall but the majority of teams have weak offensive lines.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 27, 2021, 10:28:01 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on September 27, 2021, 11:22:45 PM
Wilson obviously plays a significant role in the drops. I can recall more than a few the ball was put in the least catchable spot imaginable.
Is this phrase even remotely serious?
Post by: insanity on September 28, 2021, 12:01:28 AM
Wilson obviously plays a significant role in the drops. I can recall more than a few the ball was put in the least catchable spot imaginable.That's not how drops are calculated. The ball needs to be an obvious catch that is dropped
Post by: dcm1602 on September 28, 2021, 01:43:24 AM
That's not how drops are calculated. The ball needs to be an obvious catch that is dropped
So if a QB throws a ball completley behind a wideout running a crossing route, the wideout has to stop and turn behind him contorting his body, is able to get his hands on it, and drops it.
That's not a drop?
Because it sounds like a drop to me, but it sounds like a drop that's more of a factor of the QB making a poor throw than on the wideout
Post by: Laxin on September 28, 2021, 08:40:10 AM
So if a QB throws a ball completley behind a wideout running a crossing route, the wideout has to stop and turn behind him contorting his body, is able to get his hands on it, and drops it.
That's not a drop?
Because it sounds like a drop to me, but it sounds like a drop that's more of a factor of the QB making a poor throw than on the wideout
If you are referencing the throw to Corey Davis this week, Wilson threw it behind him to protect him from the safety that would have taken his head off. That ball was absolutely catchable, especially for someone that was brought in here to be this team’s #1 WR.
Post by: Badger on September 28, 2021, 09:02:30 AM
70% is a great completion percentage, but without context this means excrement.You were right.
Unless someone on here masturbates to PFF (or whoever makes this statistic) 70% means nothing.
That could be the best adjusted completion percentage in the league, or ranked 32nd.
Just for some context there's 25 QBs with an actual completion percentage over 67%.
So my guess is that yes Zach has gotten hit by drops worse than most, even with this adjusted fantasy statistic he would very likely still be bottom 3 in the NFL in completion %
https://twitter.com/Djbienaime/status/1442847434263175169?s=19
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 28, 2021, 10:24:58 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 28, 2021, 11:28:11 AM
Post by: insanity on September 28, 2021, 01:29:23 PM
So if a QB throws a ball completley behind a wideout running a crossing route, the wideout has to stop and turn behind him contorting his body, is able to get his hands on it, and drops it.
That's not a drop?
Because it sounds like a drop to me, but it sounds like a drop that's more of a factor of the QB making a poor throw than on the wideout
Quote
Hank Gargiulo of ESPN Stats & Information passed along the written standard our game charters rely upon to reduce subjectivity.
This standard says drops are "incomplete passes where the receiver SHOULD have caught the pass with ORDINARY effort."
Basically, we're talking about blatant drops, not the ones where your old man leans over and says anything that grazed the receiver anywhere was a drop in his day.
"Only use this if the receiver is 100 percent at fault and no one else can be blamed for the incompletion," ESPN tells its game charters. "Pass interference that wasn't called/passes thrown just outside the receiver's reach, etc., are NOT drops."
Post by: dcm1602 on September 28, 2021, 01:39:38 PM
This is still bullshit.
How often is a receiver "100%" at fault?
And of course then it gives blatant examples not the questionable ones (ie balls just out of their reach aren't drops)
I still contend that poorly thrown QB passes can and will lead to an increase in drops
Post by: dcm1602 on September 28, 2021, 01:40:37 PM
Quote
What I like: As the No. 2 overall pick, Wilson has everything you want in a franchise quarterback, and I've seen some good things from him early, despite poor results. He's athletic enough to escape pressure, the route concepts are there and he's delivered some accurate passes. Unfortunately, the Jets have 11 drops through three games (second-most in the NFL, behind Pittsburgh's 12).
What I dislike: In addition to a rookie quarterback, New York also has a rookie offensive coordinator. There's a reason Robert Saleh brought Mike LaFleur with him to New York; the offensive system LaFleur learned under Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco is meant to put the offense one step ahead of the defense. But that's not what I'm seeing from the Jets right now. Based on my own experience as a rookie QB, I'm guessing this is because Wilson is watching film on the sideline and making adjustments after the fact -- and then by the time he gets out there again, the defense has already changed. (Of course, back in 2002, I was looking at pictures on the sideline instead of video.) I remember constantly working to ensure I had answers for everything at the line of scrimmage: What if a receiver falls down? What if my receiver isn't in the right spot? Who's my go-to if the play goes off-schedule? The list was endless.
Wilson appears to be getting to the end of his progression and freezing up because, for one reason or another, he's run out of options -- and he's paying the price for it. According to Next Gen Stats, heading into Monday Night Football, there were 91 sacks in the NFL this season that took more than 4.5 seconds from snap to tackle, with Wilson accounting for a league-high eight such sacks. He needs some help from his play-caller and supporting cast.
Derek Carr on ZW.
Also interesting to note that ZW leads the nfl in sacks holding the ball > 4.5 seconds (accounting for almost 10% of the entire nfls such sacks)
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2021, 03:28:51 PM
This is still bullshit.Drops are subjective. Easiest way to track it is to only look at obvious drops.
How often is a receiver "100%" at fault?
And of course then it gives blatant examples not the questionable ones (ie balls just out of their reach aren't drops)
I still contend that poorly thrown QB passes can and will lead to an increase in drops
Most of the ones we've had this season have been borderline. Receivers could come down with them, but defenders jostled the receivers enough to force incompletions.
Post by: Laxin on September 28, 2021, 05:26:25 PM
Derek Carr on ZW.
Also interesting to note that ZW leads the nfl in sacks holding the ball > 4.5 seconds (accounting for almost 10% of the entire nfls such sacks)
If Zach has "run out of options", as Carr states, it seems like more of a scheme/play call issue than anything else.
Post by: Johnny English on September 28, 2021, 05:37:18 PM
Derek Carr on ZW.
Also interesting to note that ZW leads the nfl in sacks holding the ball > 4.5 seconds (accounting for almost 10% of the entire nfls such sacks)
I strongly suspect that Derek Carr didn't say any of this.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 30, 2021, 10:36:53 AM
https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1443599679309156353
Post by: Coach K on October 03, 2021, 04:11:18 PM
Post by: Badger on October 03, 2021, 06:30:12 PM
Yessir(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211003/f427ac5c6dd5ae030c4f53924b07b8b3.jpg)Almost came in my Zubaz on the Davis TD throw
Post by: Badger on October 03, 2021, 07:13:12 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 03, 2021, 07:32:08 PM
Just noticed he almost had 300 yds today. Soon.
He was close to 300 yards and 3 TDs. Alas.
Post by: reuben on October 03, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
All these non-Jet fans fawning over the throw in the comments. #feelsgoodman
Post by: Libero_2 on October 03, 2021, 08:15:08 PM
Gotta believe that the supporting cast realized a bit just what he can do when they help him out, so hopefully they help out going forwards and stop dropping dimes and stop bouncing balls off their hands into defenders and of course stop falling down on their cuts leading to more INTs
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 03, 2021, 08:53:39 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 03, 2021, 08:57:03 PM
Hopefully he can build off of this with Davis. Whatever adjustment they were able to make together they need to keep it going.Not sure there was really an adjustment. Outside of the big play, Davis had 3 for 58 in 5 quarters of play.
Hopefully Davis just catches the ball when it's thrown to him and he finishes his routes.
Post by: Badger on October 03, 2021, 10:05:52 PM
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1444805164989390855?s=20
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 03, 2021, 10:12:49 PM
Bit of decent insight hereWas about to post this. Unlike most weeks, I can't get enough of watching Jets content tonight. Going to rewatch the game at some point. Already rewatched most of Zach's highlights. Looking forward to watching pressers later.
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1444805164989390855?s=20
It's fun when the team wins (and you want them to win). Jets haven't won a game I badly wanted them to win since the Cowboys game on Oct. 13, 2019.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 03, 2021, 11:44:55 PM
@Djbienaime
Zach Wilson finished 21-37 with 297 yards with 2 tds and 1 pick. Passer rating of 97.3.
Best rookie QB performance of the 2021 class.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 03, 2021, 11:56:53 PM
DJ Bien-AimeYeah, but Mac Jones scored 17 points against a mediocre defense and threw a lot of checkdowns.
@Djbienaime
Zach Wilson finished 21-37 with 297 yards with 2 tds and 1 pick. Passer rating of 97.3.
Best rookie QB performance of the 2021 class.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 04, 2021, 12:00:39 AM
It looks like someone was completley wide open about 30 yards out.
Am I seeing that correctly?
If so, isn't it kind of concerning Wilson didn't see/ignored the wide open dude and instead went for the high risk throw?
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 04, 2021, 12:05:40 AM
Yeah, but Mac Jones scored 17 points against a mediocre defense and threw a lot of checkdowns.
It’s like you didn’t know the announcers would start fawning over him at the smallest amount of success.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 04, 2021, 12:22:46 AM
Watching the replays of the bomb to Davis.Looks like someone was open, but as Archuleta said, the safety was coming down to cover that, so Wilson pointed Davis deep. Hard to tell though without All 22.
It looks like someone was completley wide open about 30 yards out.
Am I seeing that correctly?
If so, isn't it kind of concerning Wilson didn't see/ignored the wide open dude and instead went for the high risk throw?
Post by: dcm1602 on October 04, 2021, 12:28:12 AM
Looks like someone was open, but as Archuleta said, the safety was coming down to cover that, so Wilson pointed Davis deep. Hard to tell though without All 22.
Would be nice to find out once it comes out.
I totally get that Wilson made a great play. But his decision making and need to go for high risk plays has been a significant issue. If he's ignoring wide open dudes 30 yards out, that's not good
Post by: MBGreen on October 04, 2021, 06:43:18 AM
Would be nice to find out once it comes out.You bitch about the most asinine things.
I totally get that Wilson made a great play. But his decision making and need to go for high risk plays has been a significant issue. If he's ignoring wide open dudes 30 yards out, that's not good
You're that guy that wins the PowerBall but complains the hundred dollar bills aren't crisp enough.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 04, 2021, 07:16:46 AM
You bitch about the most asinine things.
You're that guy that wins the PowerBall but complains the hundred dollar bills aren't crisp enough.
Something something bag of twenties wasn't a bag of fifties.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 04, 2021, 07:22:23 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 04, 2021, 07:45:31 AM
The biggest problem with Wilson is he trys to force the big play and doesn't go for the obvious safe play. As a result he's turning the ball over and getting sacked at ridiculous rates.
Here you have him going for the jugular with a low probability big play, and potentially have a wide open dude for 30 yards being completely ignored.
100% it was a gorgeous play, and a remarkable throw.
But pending the all 22 footage it also could be a sign that he's not learning from his mistakes and doesn't take what he's given
Post by: MBGreen on October 04, 2021, 07:49:42 AM
Seriously is it not unreasonable?
The biggest problem with Wilson is he trys to force the big play and doesn't go for the obvious safe play. As a result he's turning the ball over and getting sacked at ridiculous rates.
Here you have him going for the jugular with a low probability big play, and potentially have a wide open dude for 30 yards being completely ignored.
100% it was a gorgeous play, and a remarkable throw.
But pending the all 22 footage it also could be a sign that he's not learning from his mistakes and doesn't take what he's given
please stop
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 04, 2021, 08:24:13 AM
Seriously is it not unreasonable?
The biggest problem with Wilson is he trys to force the big play and doesn't go for the obvious safe play. As a result he's turning the ball over and getting sacked at ridiculous rates.
Here you have him going for the jugular with a low probability big play, and potentially have a wide open dude for 30 yards being completely ignored.
100% it was a gorgeous play, and a remarkable throw.
But pending the all 22 footage it also could be a sign that he's not learning from his mistakes and doesn't take what he's given
Who hurt you?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 04, 2021, 08:44:43 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 04, 2021, 08:46:33 AM
What is dcm going to do with All-22 film?
Draw terrible conclusions.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 04, 2021, 08:51:05 AM
Draw terrible conclusions.
"on the touchdown pass to Crowder, why didn't he fumble the snap again to throw the defense off? questionable decision making"
Post by: MBGreen on October 04, 2021, 08:52:33 AM
What is dcm going to do with All-22 film?
bitch about it probably
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 04, 2021, 11:09:51 AM
https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1445057103165542409
Post by: bojanglesman on October 04, 2021, 12:01:00 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 04, 2021, 05:50:44 PM
Post by: insanity on October 04, 2021, 06:28:53 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1445139917026299909?s=21"He pointed to Corey Davis, he said 'go down, go down", and He unloaded".....
Post by: bojanglesman on October 04, 2021, 06:30:39 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 05, 2021, 09:50:02 AM
Every time I see a new angle I think it’s the best view lol
Post by: Badger on October 05, 2021, 10:10:51 AM
https://twitter.com/radddd44/status/1445178727768461317?s=21The slo mo makes it.
Every time I see a new angle I think it’s the best view lol
Post by: reuben on October 05, 2021, 10:14:43 AM
https://twitter.com/radddd44/status/1445178727768461317?s=21
Every time I see a new angle I think it’s the best view lol
I'm pretty sure I watched this play 50 times yesterday.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 05, 2021, 10:31:47 AM
Air it out son
Post by: bojanglesman on October 05, 2021, 12:45:15 PM
https://twitter.com/pff/status/1445402835995213829?s=21Maybe this will open up the run game a little since teams have to respect the deep ball and Zach DGAF.
Air it out son
Post by: Johnny English on October 05, 2021, 01:04:38 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 05, 2021, 01:14:08 PM
Zach missed a couple of throws to ice the game - wide open pass to Davis to get the first down just before the 2 minute warning (overthrown) and an equally wide open pass to Griffin to score a TD on the OT drive (underthrown).Yep. The good news is those are throws we've seen him make before.
Post by: Johnny English on October 05, 2021, 01:32:02 PM
https://www.nfl.com/voting/rookies/
Post by: Laxin on October 07, 2021, 12:18:51 PM
Feels good for once
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 07, 2021, 12:42:30 PM
Post by: reuben on October 07, 2021, 12:58:39 PM
Quote
[Nania] Zach Wilson had two 50+ yard throws against the Titans. The Jets averaged 2.5 throws for 50+ yards per SEASON over the previous 10 years (2011-20)
Post by: Coach K on October 07, 2021, 01:45:38 PM
What is dcm going to do with All-22 film?Cut it for cap space
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 07, 2021, 01:59:08 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1446187242813370368
Post by: Johnny English on October 07, 2021, 02:12:42 PM
JFM sounds as posh as his name. "Congrats.... Zachary." Like a fine English gentleman. Sign that polite beast.
Morgan Moses seems like a fun dude.
Post by: delavan on October 07, 2021, 09:07:41 PM
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/zach-wilson-performance-breakdown-jets-titans
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 07, 2021, 09:31:09 PM
I know this is largely set up for social media, but still cool to see him getting respect from his teammates.
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1446187242813370368
"He's taking us out to dinner!"
I'm assuming McGovern and GVR are going to be assigned extra practice reps in lieu of dinner.
Post by: Badger on October 07, 2021, 10:33:44 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 08, 2021, 01:16:14 PM
Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed9gtv5YxGQ
Simms is spot on
Post by: Libero_2 on October 08, 2021, 02:42:28 PM
Simms is spot on
They really need to give Simms an office so that when they are recording he’s not got random employees walking behind them to go get excrement from their offices
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 11, 2021, 09:47:12 AM
1. Zach Wilson (11)
T2. Sam Darnold (10)
T2. Trevor Lawrence (10)
Post by: Badger on October 11, 2021, 03:02:25 PM
Most combined INTs + fumbles this seasonThat's strangely comforting.
1. Zach Wilson (11)
T2. Sam Darnold (10)
T2. Trevor Lawrence (10)
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
That's strangely comforting.
Darnold is 10th in passing yards and has 6 TDs (19th in the league) and 6 INTs (28th in the league) as well as 5 rushing TDs.
Lawrence is 23rd in passing yards, 6 TDs (19th) and 8 INTs (31st) as well as 2 rushing TDs.
Zach is 24th in passing yards, 4 TDs (27th) and 9 INTs (32nd) as well as 0 rushing TDs.
Now, it's only 5 games in and we've faced some tough defenses already so it's too early to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion from the stats, but I'm not finding them in any way comforting.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2021, 05:01:06 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2021, 05:03:46 PM
Darnold stinks
Right now Sam is serviceable, while Wilson and Lawrence stink. All of that can and should change, except for Lawrence who will continue to stink as long as he refuses to cut that stupid freaking hair.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 11, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Darnold has been OK. If he had played like this last year, he might still be our quarterback because we could theorize he had more upside.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 12, 2021, 11:15:17 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 12, 2021, 11:21:46 AM
Right now Sam is serviceable, while Wilson and Lawrence stink.
You are comparing a fourth year QB to rookies. This is the problem.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 12, 2021, 07:36:55 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 12, 2021, 11:45:44 PM
Zach is great with the media. Whether it's being annoyed at his performance against the Titans, talking about missing throws, or this week, talking about how he's thinking too much and needs to let it rip, he seems to have a good balance of honesty, insight, and knowledge of his own capabilities.
Struggling QB who says all the right things to the media. This got old with the last show.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 13, 2021, 05:41:50 AM
Zach is great with the media. Whether it's being annoyed at his performance against the Titans, talking about missing throws, or this week, talking about how he's thinking too much and needs to let it rip, he seems to have a good balance of honesty, insight, and knowledge of his own capabilities.
Sanchez will have a chair waiting for him on ESPN or wherever the freak he is these days
Post by: Badger on October 13, 2021, 06:19:08 AM
Struggling QB who says all the right things to the media. This got old with the last show.I know it's not materially worth anything but Sam's responses were a lot less insightful. He'd say the right things by saying nothing.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 13, 2021, 08:05:56 AM
I know it's not materially worth anything but Sam's responses were a lot less insightful. He'd say the right things by saying nothing.
Point being we're still at a very similar level to the last one. I'm really not going to care until we get actual improvement.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 13, 2021, 10:35:40 AM
Point being we're still at a very similar level to the last one. I'm really not going to care until we get actual improvement.That's fair, but until we see improvement, I'll settle for this.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 13, 2021, 10:46:31 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 15, 2021, 08:24:29 PM
Post by: delavan on October 17, 2021, 02:12:02 PM
https://twitter.com/TheJetPress/status/1448833383585484803?t=J_Gu4BBzirXCRcTJc2MtJg&s=19
^ Fanboy press will spin that as Justin Fields throws such a nice catchable ball.
edit: is 'awesome coach' Matt Cavanaugh still in Florham Pk. and if so, why?
John Beck?
Post by: Badger on October 24, 2021, 01:54:02 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2021, 03:30:45 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2021, 03:52:52 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2021, 03:55:11 PM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1452375354073624587?t=Wet58SFFUFHJI6OXn7t3Hw&s=19Similar to what Chao said on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/ProFootballDoc/status/1452336052052508673?s=20
Post by: Badger on October 24, 2021, 04:11:58 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2021, 04:14:55 PM
If he misses multiple weeks it's probably going to look like the Darnold mono era.Eh. Mike White was competent today. Luke Falk was the worst quarterback I've ever seen.
White could still end up being terrible, but when Darnold was hurt last year, Flacco was actually better than Darnold. I don't think White will be better than Wilson in the short-term like Flacco was, but I'm not convinced the offense will be worse. It's hard to be worse.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 24, 2021, 04:16:41 PM
Disconcerting.
Post by: steves850 on October 24, 2021, 04:40:07 PM
Post by: Jumbo on October 24, 2021, 04:40:09 PM
Eh. Mike White was competent today. Luke Falk was the worst quarterback I've ever seen.
White could still end up being terrible, but when Darnold was hurt last year, Flacco was actually better than Darnold. I don't think White will be better than Wilson in the short-term like Flacco was, but I'm not convinced the offense will be worse. It's hard to be worse.
I'm pretty sure Falk looked ok in the first game he had to come in - like on par with what White Mike was today - before proceeding to look like a make-a-wish kid in the next two games.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 24, 2021, 05:01:44 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 24, 2021, 05:03:16 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 24, 2021, 05:04:37 PM
Post by: Badger on October 24, 2021, 05:22:59 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 24, 2021, 05:52:01 PM
I maintain my position from the preseason: if Zach is hurt, all is lost and it doesn't matter who plays in his stead.
Because he has thus far been such a dominant leader?
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2021, 06:51:00 PM
The one highlight other than the Davis TD.
Post by: reuben on October 24, 2021, 07:35:38 PM
https://twitter.com/LukeGrant7/status/1452408600865894405
The one highlight other than the Davis TD.
Elijah Moore getting his first touchdown as a pro and Michael Carter's 100 yards are also highlights.
We've established Carter can catch now, right? So we're done with Ty Johnson now... right?
Post by: casman02 on October 24, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jUKPXn0.jpg)...not a penalty.....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/659061839746068480/EEpJCmHn_400x400.jpg)
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 24, 2021, 09:24:27 PM
Because he has thus far been such a dominant leader?
Because the rest of the QBs on the roster/practice squad who have already reached the peak of their talent where as with Zach we can still reasonably believe that he can improve.
Post by: Badger on October 25, 2021, 09:07:19 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 25, 2021, 09:13:20 AM
Sprained PCL 2-4 weeks
bullet dodged
Post by: reuben on October 25, 2021, 09:19:08 AM
Post by: steves850 on October 25, 2021, 09:20:18 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 25, 2021, 09:28:48 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on October 25, 2021, 09:30:36 AM
Not bad. No need to rush him back. Make it 4-6 weeks. Minimum 40 rushes per game for Carter. 10 Jets sweeps. Maybe 3-4 passes per game maximum allowed, all dump offs to Carter or Yeboah. NY Carters.
Stash him until next year.
Post by: MBGreen on October 25, 2021, 09:31:02 AM
Not bad. No need to rush him back. Make it 4-6 weeks. Minimum 40 rushes per game for Carter. 10 Jets sweeps. Maybe 3-4 passes per game maximum allowed, all dump offs to Carter or Yeboah. NY Carters.
Zace to the Future
Post by: bojanglesman on October 25, 2021, 09:35:23 AM
Zace to the FutureWelcome back Carter.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 25, 2021, 09:41:43 AM
Stash him until next year.
Yeah this team freaking sucks, the risks of him getting seriously hurt or stunting his development far outweigh the reward of any progression he might make this godforsaken season
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2021, 10:06:58 AM
White wasn't horrible yesterday but things are only going to get worse for him with more film
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2021, 10:30:55 AM
I'd be okay trading a late round pick for a veteran QB to hold the fortIf we have so little confidence in White that we think a guy we can bring in via trade with little practice with the team can do a better job, then that's a failure by Douglas.
White wasn't horrible yesterday but things are only going to get worse for him with more film
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2021, 10:32:57 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 25, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
This season is exactly why I didn't want a rookie starting this year in the first place.
I, for one, cannot believe that Wilson got hurt this year. Never could have seen this coming.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2021, 10:35:34 AM
I, for one, cannot believe that Wilson got hurt this year. Never could have seen this coming.
I wonder if Joe Douglas has reached put to Mike White's parents yet.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 25, 2021, 10:39:07 AM
They called this one though
Post by: bojanglesman on October 25, 2021, 10:43:32 AM
https://twitter.com/fieldyates/status/1452394270246199297?s=21Dude is like 4'2", every hit has the potential to be a headshot. I'm surprised he didn't miss him altogether when he ducked. That's bullshit.
They called this one though
Post by: reuben on October 25, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Dude is like 4'2", every hit has the potential to be a headshot. I'm surprised he didn't miss him altogether when he ducked. That's bullshit.
You might be on to something here Bo, let's get a Verne Troyer-sized quarterback. Every attempt to sack him makes contact with the helmet. 15 yarders all day.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 25, 2021, 11:05:17 AM
I, for one, cannot believe that Wilson got hurt this year. Never could have seen this coming.
Blindsided as well, no way anyone could predict Wilson would get hurt.
Post by: Badger on October 26, 2021, 01:51:43 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 28, 2021, 03:27:35 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 28, 2021, 03:47:16 PM
Post by: delavan on October 28, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
Post by: Badger on October 30, 2021, 01:35:57 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2021, 01:52:08 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1454493784545300487?s=21
don't die
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2021, 02:37:42 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2021, 02:57:25 PM
So we traded a 6th round pick for a player who doesn't want to be here to maybe play against the Colts, and then sit back down for the rest of the season.It's the type of move that if things end up going wrong for Douglas, we'll look back on it as one of the first turning points to when people started to question him. And if things end up going right for Douglas, we'll totally forgot we ever traded for Joe Flacco midseason. Hopefully, they draft a long snapper with that pick.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2021, 03:32:20 PM
So we traded a 6th round pick for a player who doesn't want to be here to maybe play against the Colts, and then sit back down for the rest of the season.
They only just decided to keep Wilson off of IR. Bringing in a QB at that time was the right move. Of course if you don't like Flacco anymore we could probably have signed Fales.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2021, 03:35:42 PM
I'm also drunk.
Post by: Badger on October 30, 2021, 03:43:22 PM
It's the type of move that if things end up going wrong for Douglas, we'll look back on it as one of the first turning points to when people started to question him.
Considering the turning points of his predecessors, this doesn't rate.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2021, 03:47:27 PM
Trying to think of what the turning points were for each guy. With Tannenbaum, it was either Plaxico or Tebow. For Maccagnan, it was Hackenberg. I'm not sure what it was for Idzik.
Considering the turning points of his predecessors, this doesn't rate.
Post by: Badger on October 30, 2021, 04:02:13 PM
Trying to think of what the turning points were for each guy. With Tannenbaum, it was either Plaxico or Tebow. For Maccagnan, it was Hackenberg. I'm not sure what it was for Idzik.Geno Smith lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2021, 04:09:43 PM
Geno Smith lolI still think Geno was talented enough to be worth that pick. I didn't think he was a 1st-rounder, but I thought where we took him was fine given our quarterback situation at the time. And Geno is still an NFL player 8 years later, so he isn't a total waste of a pick like Hackenberg. Hack was awful in college and there was no reason for him to be not awful in the NFL.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2021, 06:08:19 PM
They only just decided to keep Wilson off of IR. Bringing in a QB at that time was the right move. Of course if you don't like Flacco anymore we could probably have signed Fales.
I do not like Flacco any more. I thought he could be the perfect mentor to Sam. He thinks he can be a starting quarterback.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2021, 06:09:14 PM
Trying to think of what the turning points were for each guy. With Tannenbaum, it was either Plaxico or Tebow. For Maccagnan, it was Hackenberg. I'm not sure what it was for Idzik.
About two weeks before he joined the Jets. Elite hotel booker and expense approver though.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2021, 06:15:35 PM
I do not like Flacco any more. I thought he could be the perfect mentor to Sam. He thinks he can be a starting quarterback.So does everyone in the NFL. Hurts said Flacco was a good mentor.
Post by: Badger on October 31, 2021, 07:57:51 AM
I still think Geno was talented enough to be worth that pick. I didn't think he was a 1st-rounder, but I thought where we took him was fine given our quarterback situation at the time. And Geno is still an NFL player 8 years later, so he isn't a total waste of a pick like Hackenberg. Hack was awful in college and there was no reason for him to be not awful in the NFL.I don't consider the mistake to be the pick alone but also the FO insistence that he be given every opportunity to "compete" for the starting job immediately. Set the franchise back back 2 years and ended the tenure of our last good HC.
If they had taken Geno in the 2nd but Sanchez got to play out 2013 like he deserved, and then we took one of the 2014 QBs, it wouldn't have been as disastrous. Imagine if we had Derek Carr with the 2015 offense.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 31, 2021, 09:09:01 AM
Trying to think of what the turning points were for each guy. With Tannenbaum, it was either Plaxico or Tebow. For Maccagnan, it was Hackenberg. I'm not sure what it was for Idzik.
Our entire 2014 draft class
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2021, 09:12:58 AM
Imagine drafting that many absolute scrubs for the sole purpose of punking Manish.
Our entire 2014 draft class
Post by: dcm1602 on October 31, 2021, 04:43:34 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2021, 06:46:33 PM
So we traded a 6th round pick for a player who doesn't want to be here to maybe play against the Colts, and then sit back down for the rest of the season.
Update: we traded a 6th round pick for a player who doesn't want to be here to carry a clipboard for the rest of the season.
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2021, 06:49:18 PM
Update: we traded a 6th round pick for a player who doesn't want to be here to carry a clipboard for the rest of the season.I'm good with having solid QB depth.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2021, 07:34:49 PM
Hopefully we can trade Wilson for a 2nd and a 4th.
FTFY
Post by: ons on October 31, 2021, 09:27:46 PM
Post by: Badger on November 04, 2021, 11:56:01 AM
https://twitter.com/KimJonesSports/status/1456217364010344452?t=460KYOw3nJP2GaULuqcDKA&s=19
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 04, 2021, 12:20:06 PM
No respect
https://twitter.com/KimJonesSports/status/1456217364010344452?t=460KYOw3nJP2GaULuqcDKA&s=19
Bahahahahahahahahaha
Post by: dcm1602 on November 12, 2021, 07:53:36 AM
Quote
Zach Wilson said his "style of plays needs to get more like" Mike White.
Wilson said White is his best friend on the team and that he would try to emulate White's patience and willingness to check down to the open man once he returns to the Jets' starting lineup. Jets players reportedly chant "Mike White" every time the quarterback enters the team's locker room; they've yet to chant "Zach Wilson" when the No. 2 overall pick in the 2021 NFL Draft strolls through the locker room. It's an undeniably awkward situation for Wilson, White, and the Jets decision makers. White could make it even more awkward if he fares well against the tough Buffalo defense this Sunday.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 12, 2021, 08:18:37 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on November 12, 2021, 08:19:23 AM
Post by: delavan on November 12, 2021, 06:25:54 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 17, 2021, 06:28:39 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 17, 2021, 06:41:37 PM
https://twitter.com/zachwilson/status/1461108618779107329?s=21
It took me a minute to realize that that wasn't a middle schooler in that video.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 18, 2021, 01:41:52 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 18, 2021, 01:47:23 PM
https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/1461407804863008781?s=21
freak that guy. I hope he gets AIDS.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 18, 2021, 05:57:53 PM
https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/1461407804863008781?s=21
David Carr did a similar thing though his way seems far more boring and I'm not sure if he understands how a redraft is supposed to work
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/nfl-offensive-player-rankings-week-11-re-drafting-the-2021-first-round-rookie-qu
Post by: MBGreen on November 18, 2021, 05:59:40 PM
freak outta here.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 18, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 18, 2021, 08:49:59 PM
Post by: Badger on November 19, 2021, 10:04:04 AM
Everyone needs contentNobody should click that content
Post by: bojanglesman on November 21, 2021, 02:43:44 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2021, 02:53:29 PM
https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1462446117145219084?t=ufG4QHbMxVqEK9LqsAP0Hw&s=19
Did Mort have another stroke?
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2021, 02:40:58 PM
@Connor_J_Hughes
· 28m
Ty Johnson says Zach Wilson is like a pup who has grown into his bark, thus becoming a dog. #Jets
I can't wait until we cut Ty Johnson.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 24, 2021, 02:58:36 PM
I can't wait until we cut Ty Johnson.
I hate him
1. Ty Johnson
2. Nathan Shepherd
3. Greg Van Roten
Most-Hated Jets
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2021, 05:07:52 PM
Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
· 28m
Ty Johnson says Zach Wilson is like a pup who has grown into his bark, thus becoming a dog. #Jets
The Prophecy
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 24, 2021, 05:54:03 PM
The Prophecy
Helped before the Mike White start so...
Post by: Johnny English on November 24, 2021, 06:02:05 PM
Edit: "an OK standard" is a generous description of his blocking. Maybe better to say that he does most things with the ball to an OK standard.
Post by: insanity on November 24, 2021, 06:20:30 PM
I hate himThis board is just full of angry elves
Post by: Heismanberg on November 24, 2021, 06:41:56 PM
I don't really understand the Ty Johnson hate, he's not great but he does most things to an OK standard. We've had much worse backs than him.
Edit: "an OK standard" is a generous description of his blocking. Maybe better to say that he does most things with the ball to an OK standard.
Who have we had lately that’s received starting RB reps that’s worse than Ty Johnson?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 24, 2021, 06:44:17 PM
Who have we had lately that’s received starting RB reps that’s worse than Ty Johnson?
Frank Gore?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 24, 2021, 06:45:29 PM
Frank Gore?
Disagree that Gore is worse because he could actually pass protect. Ty Johnson is a third down back that can’t block.
Post by: Johnny English on November 24, 2021, 06:48:28 PM
Who have we had lately that’s received starting RB reps that’s worse than Ty Johnson?
Le'veon Bell. Ty Johnson is a more effective runner and a better receiver than the version of Bell we got.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 24, 2021, 06:50:43 PM
Disagree that Gore is worse because he could actually pass protect. Ty Johnson is a third down back that can’t block.
Fair enough.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 24, 2021, 06:51:51 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 24, 2021, 07:06:06 PM
Le'veon Bell. Ty Johnson is a more effective runner and a better receiver than the version of Bell we got.
Remember when I said he was washed and LJF got mad?
#NeverForget
Post by: Johnny English on November 24, 2021, 07:07:48 PM
Remember when I said he was washed and LJF got mad?
#NeverForget
I didn't agree with you either, I thought Bell was misused and ignored in a terrible scheme called by someone who behaved like he'd never watched a game of football before.
Then he went to the best offense in the NFL and it turned out you were probably right.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2021, 08:49:56 PM
I don't really understand the Ty Johnson hate, he's not great but he does most things to an OK standard. We've had much worse backs than him.
Edit: "an OK standard" is a generous description of his blocking. Maybe better to say that he does most things with the ball to an OK standard.
Mike Goodson > Ty Johnson
Post by: bojanglesman on November 24, 2021, 09:04:06 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 24, 2021, 09:07:05 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 24, 2021, 09:08:30 PM
I don't have strong feelings on Johnson, but I can say with absolute certainty that no one currently on this team is more despised by me than GVR.I don't even hate GVR because he was a Jets fan growing up. He just is a disappointment.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 26, 2021, 02:30:30 AM
- Elijah McGuire
- Le'Veon Bell
- LaMical Perine
- Tevin Coleman
- Trenton Cannon
- Stevan Ridley
- Frank Gore
- Zac Stacy
Also, looking at the list of Jets who have gotten any carries with the Jets since 2010 brings up some wild names that I either forgot were Jets (CJ Spiller, Stevan Ridley), forgot existed (De'Angelo Henderson, Brandon Wilds, Travaris Cadet, Lex Hilliard, Khiry Robinson) or never knew existed (Brandon Burks, Alex Green).
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2021, 11:03:03 AM
@Connor_J_Hughes
·
19h
Zach Wilson says some of his problems with his hesitation are that he’s not trusting what he’s seeing, but that will come with time #Jets
I agree with Hughes here. Let the kid develop....the NFL is a helluva lot faster than college.
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2021, 11:05:09 AM
Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
·
19h
Zach Wilson says some of his problems with his hesitation are that he’s not trusting what he’s seeing, but that will come with time #Jets
I agree with Hughes here. Let the kid develop....the NFL is a helluva lot faster than college.
At this stage I prefer him not trusting that the receiver he thinks is open and checking down or throwing it away, to trusting his eyes and finding out through the medium of interceptions that the receiver was in fact not open. Thus far we've seen a bit of both but it's still early days.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2021, 11:33:46 AM
At this stage I prefer him not trusting that the receiver he thinks is open and checking down or throwing it away, to trusting his eyes and finding out through the medium of interceptions that the receiver was in fact not open. Thus far we've seen a bit of both but it's still early days.
I figure it will take a season or 2 to get fully comfortable with the offense and playing QB at this level.
It's magnified this year, because we've wasted the previous 10 years ruining potential franchise QBs. So i get the impatience. In the meantime, keep surrounding him with more talent.
Unfortunately, we'll have to trust the brainstrust has a plan, and that Zach shows improvement going fwd.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2021, 02:51:12 PM
@DWAZ73
·
26m
Robert Saleh says QB Zach Wilson checked out good today with his knee. He won't have any limitations. #Jets
excellent
Post by: bojanglesman on November 29, 2021, 02:52:14 PM
Connor HughesWhat's the alternative? Don't let him develop?
@Connor_J_Hughes
·
19h
Zach Wilson says some of his problems with his hesitation are that he’s not trusting what he’s seeing, but that will come with time #Jets
I agree with Hughes here. Let the kid develop....the NFL is a helluva lot faster than college.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2021, 02:54:01 PM
What's the alternative? Don't let him develop?
Well..there's a significant contingent in our fanbase that want local plugs White Mike and Joe Flacco to start...because "green team win now".
Post by: bojanglesman on November 29, 2021, 02:57:00 PM
Well..there's a significant contingent in our fanbase that want local plugs White Mike and Joe Flacco to start...because "green team win now".Still?
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2021, 02:57:36 PM
Still?
how long have you been asleep?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 29, 2021, 07:30:39 PM
Well..there's a significant contingent in our fanbase that want local plugs White Mike and Joe Flacco to start...because "green team win now".
Who the freak wants Flacco to start? Literally nobody, except maybe the people who want to justify trading for him.
I'll concede I'd like White to play 2 more games this year at some point, purely just to help evaluate his contract situation after the season.
Plus it's not like Wilson is thriving.
Zach is the future for better or worse, but getting him murdered does no favors
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 29, 2021, 07:41:21 PM
Post by: reuben on November 29, 2021, 07:45:11 PM
I'll concede I'd like White to play 2 more games this year at some point, purely just to help evaluate his contract situation after the season.
Quintessential dcm mode.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2021, 07:49:39 PM
Who the freak wants Flacco to start? Literally nobody, except maybe the people who want to justify trading for him.Nobody wants them to start, and the few that do probably want to do that because they think Wilson should sit and watch as a rookie. No idea where this "significant contingent" is.
I'll concede I'd like White to play 2 more games this year at some point, purely just to help evaluate his contract situation after the season.
Plus it's not like Wilson is thriving.
Zach is the future for better or worse, but getting him murdered does no favors
Clearly, the Jets don't have a whole lot of faith in White if they were going to trade a draft pick for someone to replace him midseason, and then to ditch White at the first sign of trouble in favor of a no-upside veteran.
White's success was almost primarily on checkdowns in the first game. He also turned the ball over a ton when he was in there. So when you don't create big plays and you turn the ball over a lot, that's a bad combination. I would have much rather started White over Flacco, in part to get a better read on him, but clearly the Jets have made their read.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2021, 08:13:20 PM
Nobody wants them to start, and the few that do probably want to do that because they think Wilson should sit and watch as a rookie. No idea where this "significant contingent" is.The jets fanbase is one of the largest in the NFL....significant contingent was being conservative. There's probably more.
Clearly, the Jets don't have a whole lot of faith in White if they were going to trade a draft pick for someone to replace him midseason, and then to ditch White at the first sign of trouble in favor of a no-upside veteran.
White's success was almost primarily on checkdowns in the first game. He also turned the ball over a ton when he was in there. So when you don't create big plays and you turn the ball over a lot, that's a bad combination. I would have much rather started White over Flacco, in part to get a better read on him, but clearly the Jets have made their read.
Regardless, Zach needs to play.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 29, 2021, 08:36:02 PM
The jets fanbase is one of the largest in the NFL....significant contingent was being conservative. There's probably more.
Regardless, Zach needs to play.
I really need to see your source on this. I feel like there is no way this is true.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2021, 08:42:29 PM
1. Cowboys
2. Steelers
3. 49ers
4. Raiders
5. Giants
6. Packers
7. Patriots
8. Bears
9. Jets
10. Rams
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2021, 08:44:14 PM
I really need to see your source on this. I feel like there is no way this is true.I lost count after 92
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2021, 08:45:27 PM
Preparing to look stupid, my pure guess of the biggest fan bases...You're including bandwagon fans, I see. That changes everything.
1. Cowboys
2. Steelers
3. 49ers
4. Raiders
5. Giants
6. Packers
7. Patriots
8. Bears
9. Jets
10. Rams
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 29, 2021, 08:48:15 PM
Preparing to look stupid, my pure guess of the biggest fan bases...
1. Cowboys
2. Steelers
3. 49ers
4. Raiders
5. Giants
6. Packers
7. Patriots
8. Bears
9. Jets
10. Rams
This is going by Facebook fans so probably not the best metric but we're actually in the bottom 10 in that demographic.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/240028/facebook-fans-of-national-football-league-teams/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/240028/facebook-fans-of-national-football-league-teams/)
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2021, 08:52:45 PM
This is going by Facebook fans so probably not the best metric but we're actually in the bottom 10 in that demographic.Sounds like we're trending upward
https://www.statista.com/statistics/240028/facebook-fans-of-national-football-league-teams/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/240028/facebook-fans-of-national-football-league-teams/)
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2021, 09:52:52 PM
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2021, 10:28:45 PM
I thought about Broncos in the top 10. Guess I should have included them.That's who I immediately thought was missing.
Post by: Badger on November 30, 2021, 08:54:40 AM
https://twitter.com/damienwoody/status/1465354543395442688?s=20
Post by: MBGreen on November 30, 2021, 09:58:04 AM
A voice of reason
https://twitter.com/damienwoody/status/1465354543395442688?s=20
but...he didn't complete a pass to the flat?
Post by: reuben on November 30, 2021, 10:06:28 AM
but...he didn't complete a pass to the flat?
He hasn't completed a collection of passes to the flat.
Post by: MBGreen on November 30, 2021, 10:10:56 AM
He hasn't completed a collection of passes to the flat.
i'll worry about this stuff in year 2.
new offense, new coaching staff, coming off an injury, getting used to the speed of the game...etc etc. It all ties in here. I've noticed he has issues with velocity...doens't know when to gun it or put more touch on the pass. Again, he'll figure this out.
I'm not a big fan of excuses, because we've been fed them for a decade now.....but this is actually legit (until it isn't).
Post by: bojanglesman on November 30, 2021, 10:11:34 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 30, 2021, 10:12:43 AM
Cut him now.
bag of pork rinds severance pkg?
Post by: bojanglesman on November 30, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
bag of pork rinds severance pkg?
1 salty wing.
Post by: MBGreen on November 30, 2021, 10:23:42 AM
1 salty wing.
fuckin' nazi
Post by: insanity on November 30, 2021, 10:26:02 AM
Post by: Badger on November 30, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
He hasn't completed a collection of passes to the flat.A plethora of passes
Post by: MexJetinBcn on November 30, 2021, 12:21:05 PM
This is going by Facebook fans so probably not the best metric but we're actually in the bottom 10 in that demographic.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/240028/facebook-fans-of-national-football-league-teams/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/240028/facebook-fans-of-national-football-league-teams/)
I saw the internal stats that the NFL has and I remember we were around 10-11th, Giants were higher, like 8th.
Post by: Johnny English on November 30, 2021, 12:28:13 PM
I saw the internal stats that the NFL has and I remember we were around 10-11th, Giants were higher, like 8th.
I would have thought that team values would be fairly closely aligned with fanbase size given all revenues ultimately derive from fans, and the latest Forbes list has the Giants at #3 and us at #8.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2021/08/05/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2021-average-team-value-soars-to-35-billion-as-league-shrugs-off-pandemic-year
Post by: Heismanberg on November 30, 2021, 12:32:22 PM
I'm okay with how he played. The shovel pick was a stupid play but he'll hopefully learn from it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 30, 2021, 12:37:00 PM
We were without Michael Carter and Corey Davis on Sunday. He hadn't played in weeks.I don't even think the shovel pick was as bad as people make it seem. Sure, it was a little reckless, but Johnson was looking when Wilson started his shovel motion. Johnson turned upfield to block right as Wilson was letting go of the ball, so it made the play look worse than it was. Then it's exacerbated because it was intercepted.
I'm okay with how he played. The shovel pick was a stupid play but he'll hopefully learn from it.
The Carter and Davis injuries are a big deal, though Coleman ran pretty well.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 30, 2021, 09:07:31 PM
i'll worry about this stuff in year 2.
new offense, new coaching staff, coming off an injury, getting used to the speed of the game...etc etc. It all ties in here. I've noticed he has issues with velocity...doens't know when to gun it or put more touch on the pass. Again, he'll figure this out.
I'm not a big fan of excuses, because we've been fed them for a decade now.....but this is actually legit (until it isn't).
In his postgame on Sunday he said something to the effect of "That's my mentality, I just sling it" and the guys on the broadcast were discussing it after. Someone's got to work with him to make him understand you can't sail a pass over a guy's head or throw a rocket at a guy's knees 6 yards away.
He's killed some drives and risked getting some guys killed with his throws. Like you said though, excuses suck, but right now the kid has a few legit ones.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 01, 2021, 05:00:11 AM
I don't even think the shovel pick was as bad as people make it seem. Sure, it was a little reckless, but Johnson was looking when Wilson started his shovel motion. Johnson turned upfield to block right as Wilson was letting go of the ball, so it made the play look worse than it was. Then it's exacerbated because it was intercepted.
Apparently, he was a bit hesitant because of his knee and changed his mind at the last minute, so instead of running it he did that shovel pass
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2021, 07:07:37 PM
I made reference to this in the post-game thread, but this is very true, and it can be pretty cool to see.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 07, 2021, 01:40:36 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2021, 11:21:15 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 09, 2021, 01:16:47 PM
Post by: insanity on December 09, 2021, 01:24:24 PM
https://twitter.com/nfl345/status/1468989048274489344?s=21
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGL-o90XoAcHjNz?format=jpg&name=small)
Post by: Miamipuck on December 09, 2021, 01:29:52 PM
Must have been a meh week for rookies.
You ain't kidding.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 09, 2021, 01:31:14 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGL-o90XoAcHjNz?format=jpg&name=small)
LMAO.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2021, 04:34:13 PM
The champ champ
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 12, 2021, 10:45:01 PM
Post by: insanity on December 12, 2021, 10:51:08 PM
Wasn’t able to watch today. Were there any positives?No turnovers. That's about it. Do your self a favor and don't watch until elijah is back.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2021, 11:11:49 PM
Wasn’t able to watch today. Were there any positives?
He stepped up in the pocket more today and made a nice run. I hadn't seen him really take off and pick up yards lately, so it was good to see.
He's processing well and seeing the field, but everything is still moving too fast for him. Our receivers could not get any separation today and I think that made things a lot more cloudy for him.
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2021, 06:39:58 AM
Wasn’t able to watch today. Were there any positives?Only our AIDS tests
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2021, 07:38:35 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ochocinco/status/1470157755453427713?s=20
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 13, 2021, 09:28:58 AM
I just know this was Ty Johnson
Post by: Heismanberg on December 13, 2021, 11:26:09 AM
https://twitter.com/movethesticks/status/1470409777679253504?s=21
I just know this was Ty Johnson
It was
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 13, 2021, 12:49:27 PM
Very strange
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 13, 2021, 01:05:40 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2021, 03:48:07 PM
"Uh, I'm a 22 year old multi millionaire playing a game for a living, I'm managing to keep my spirits up just fine thanks." Honestly, they do ask some dumb freaking questions at times.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 13, 2021, 04:08:20 PM
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1470147429169307650?s=20Eh, I don't have a problem with that line of questioning. A lot of these guys come from programs that aren't used to losing, now they are losing all the time. Zach has had mostly success in sports his entire life. Now he's struggling as much as he ever has.
"Uh, I'm a 22 year old multi millionaire playing a game for a living, I'm managing to keep my spirits up just fine thanks." Honestly, they do ask some dumb freaking questions at times.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 13, 2021, 04:48:59 PM
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2021, 05:07:02 PM
Eh, I don't have a problem with that line of questioning. A lot of these guys come from programs that aren't used to losing, now they are losing all the time. Zach has had mostly success in sports his entire life. Now he's struggling as much as he ever has.That's pretty typical of high drafted QBs though.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 13, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
One thing that gives me hope is that I believe Zach has better voices in his ear than Sam ever had.I think LaFleur is legitimately good, or at least that he will be. I've seen more than enough positives from LaFleur to be sold. Maybe the bar has just been set so low in my time as a Jets fan, but he has shown creativity and an ability to drag production from multiple middling quarterbacks. He is in his first year at this job, so hopefully he will get better. He already has gotten better.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 13, 2021, 05:08:30 PM
That's pretty typical of high drafted QBs though.It's pretty typical of a lot of athletes who go pro, but I think it's fine to ask them about it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 13, 2021, 05:13:29 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2021, 06:14:32 PM
One thing that gives me hope is that I believe Zach has better voices in his ear than Sam ever had.
How quickly Uncle Josh is forgotten.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 13, 2021, 06:19:30 PM
How quickly Uncle Josh is forgotten.That's racist.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 13, 2021, 07:27:52 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 14, 2021, 07:09:42 AM
Quote
Christopher Olsen
@Chris_olsen15
Jets fans taking out years of frustration on Zach Wilson due to past GM’s being terrible and leaving this organization with little to nothing to work with is not fair to the kid
100% bang on.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2021, 09:39:11 AM
100% bang on.
“Past GMs” lmao
Really cute how we can absolve both Joe Douglas and Zach Wilson at the same time. No one is to blame besides Idzik and Duff!
Post by: Jumbo on December 14, 2021, 10:44:42 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 14, 2021, 11:09:41 AM
“Past GMs” lmao
Really cute how we can absolve both Joe Douglas and Zach Wilson at the same time. No one is to blame besides Idzik and Duff!
blaming begins in year 3 for Zach....
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2021, 11:18:53 AM
blaming begins in year 3 for Zach....The last 4 games this year are going to be vital to our perception of Wilson. Darnold looked good at the end of Year 1 and built in some positive equity with Jets fans. Wilson has not done that. He will get heat from some fans this offseason if that doesn't change. It sucks that Moore is out because that makes it a lot harder for Wilson to show progress.
Blaming begins in Year 3 as long as Wilson shows some progress in Year 2. If Wilson is a trainwreck in Year 2 and hasn't done anything in Year 1 either, then I'll start to have doubts at the end of Year 2. It's like with Darnold. Darnold had a very low bar each of his first 3 seasons. He barely exceeded that bar in Years 1 and 2, then couldn't meet it in Year 3. Wilson has a very low bar in Years 1 and 2 to make Jets fans think he can be the answer.
Post by: reuben on December 14, 2021, 11:26:09 AM
blaming begins in year 3 for Zach....
Zach Mistakes I Am Willing To Overlook Until 2023:
- Not leading receivers enough
- Leading receivers too far
- Throwing into double coverage
- Choking against the blitz
- Not going through his progressions
- Rushing through his progressions
- Not seeing open receivers
- Taking bad sacks
- Fumbling the ball
- Inconsistent footwork
- Not stepping up in the pocket
- Not winning big games
- Playing down to the level of inferior opponents
- Drug Use
- Light murder
Zach Mistakes I Need To See Fixed By Week 1 2022:
- Short yips
Post by: MBGreen on December 14, 2021, 11:29:05 AM
The last 4 games this year are going to be vital to our perception of Wilson. Darnold looked good at the end of Year 1 and built in some positive equity with Jets fans. Wilson has not done that. He will get heat from some fans this offseason if that doesn't change. It sucks that Moore is out because that makes it a lot harder for Wilson to show progress.Year 3...Wilson has til then.
Blaming begins in Year 3 as long as Wilson shows some progress in Year 2. If Wilson is a trainwreck in Year 2 and hasn't done anything in Year 1 either, then I'll start to have doubts at the end of Year 2. It's like with Darnold. Darnold had a very low bar each of his first 3 seasons. He barely exceeded that bar in Years 1 and 2, then couldn't meet it in Year 3. Wilson has a very low bar in Years 1 and 2 to make Jets fans think he can be the answer.
I don't give a fiddler's excrement about Darnold
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2021, 11:35:12 AM
Zach Mistakes I Am Willing To Overlook Until 2023:Exactly. The bar is extremely low for Wilson in Year 2. But there still is a bar he needs to reach, and not having the yips on these short passes is probably the biggest thing. He needs to have fewer passes that just have no hope of a completion.
- Not leading receivers enough
- Leading receivers too far
- Throwing into double coverage
- Choking against the blitz
- Not going through his progressions
- Rushing through his progressions
- Not seeing open receivers
- Taking bad sacks
- Fumbling the ball
- Inconsistent footwork
- Not stepping up in the pocket
- Not winning big games
- Playing down to the level of inferior opponents
- Drug Use
- Light murder
Zach Mistakes I Need To See Fixed By Week 1 2022:
- Short yips
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2021, 12:13:48 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2021, 12:53:21 PM
blaming begins in year 3 for Zach....
This is untrue based on what we’ve seen in recent events. Darnold was questioned in year 2 and people were starting to give up on him in year 3. By halftime of week 1.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2021, 12:55:50 PM
Not sure whether to post this in the Wilson/Saleh/Douglas thread but just to cover my bases I'm still in the honeymoon phase where specific criticisms are fine, but I consider any attempt to call them an overall success or failure as silly.
Overall evaluation at this point is premature, but it’s a perfectly valid take to say that he’s had a subpar rookie season and thus far hasn’t lived up to expectations
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 14, 2021, 01:28:35 PM
Not sure whether to post this in the Wilson/Saleh/Douglas thread but just to cover my bases I'm still in the honeymoon phase where specific criticisms are fine, but I consider any attempt to call them an overall success or failure as silly.
Overall evaluation at this point is premature, but it’s a perfectly valid take to say that he’s had a subpar rookie season and thus far hasn’t lived up to expectations
Wrong. Middle ground not allowed.
You either think he's destined to put on a gold jacket, or you're saying he's the next Ryan Leaf.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2021, 01:39:17 PM
This is untrue based on what we’ve seen in recent events. Darnold was questioned in year 2 and people were starting to give up on him in year 3. By halftime of week 1.He was questioned in Year 2 because he sucked, but nobody wanted to move on from him, and people weren't ever really blaming him.
People started to blame him in Year 3 because you can only suck for so long, and 3 years is far too long to suck. And even then, people would point to a couple plays he made against the 49ers, Colts and Broncos as to why he could still be the answer.
Personally, I didn't give up on him at all until Year 3. I was fully on board. I started to have a lot more doubts in Week 1 of Year 3 because he was absolutely pathetic in that game. And even then, most people on this board were saying we hoped Darnold would turn it around so we didn't have to take a QB in the top 3. A lot of us thought it was a win-win with either Darnold overcoming his circumstances and leading us to a few wins, or we would get the #1 pick to get Lawrence.
Hell, even after Darnold sucked for 3 years straight, there were still people on this board who wanted to keep him.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2021, 01:59:55 PM
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2021, 02:05:22 PM
Hell, even after Darnold sucked for 3 years straight, there were still people on this board who wanted to keep him.
Sure, but the argument that "Woody Johnson can't develop QBs so we shouldn't get a new one" is very strong.
Post by: Johnny English on December 14, 2021, 02:18:50 PM
Sure, but the argument that "Woody Johnson can't develop QBs so we shouldn't get a new one" is very strong.
Who has made that argument?
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2021, 02:41:34 PM
Who has made that argument?https://www.mirrorshop.ca/
Post by: Johnny English on December 14, 2021, 02:43:29 PM
https://www.mirrorshop.ca/
So once again you're doing the Badger thing of making up the things that you want to argue against because it's much easier than arguing against the things that were actually said. You should stop doing that, it's stupid.
Post by: MBGreen on December 14, 2021, 03:09:52 PM
So once again you're doing the Badger thing of making up the things that you want to argue against because it's much easier than arguing against the things that were actually said. You should stop doing that, it's stupid.
Except that's not what happened in this case.
Post by: Badger on December 15, 2021, 07:16:32 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 15, 2021, 07:30:55 AM
Not sure whether to post this in the Wilson/Saleh/Douglas thread but just to cover my bases I'm still in the honeymoon phase where specific criticisms are fine, but I consider any attempt to call them an overall success or failure as silly.
Nobody's called Wilson a failure (on this board at least)
I didn't like the pick, and don't have any optimism about the dude (call it SOJ mentality by all means)
But I think it's very difficult to call him a failure before year 3.
If he doesn't show substantial improvements in year 2 (barring some freak catastrophic key injuries) it might be hard to see him as anything but a train wreck. Only because he's been historically bad this year, so the room to improve is tremendous.
I have much more optimism about Joe Douglas. His moves haven't panned out the greatest, but I love the philosophy he has. So I hope given enough time and a big enough sample size the bad good moves will become good good moves. Not thrilled with what he did in the 1st round this recent year in the draft, but otherwise I'll continue to be hopeful
Post by: MBGreen on December 15, 2021, 09:56:41 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 15, 2021, 10:01:11 AM
Sign JoJo Natson for Zach next year and let's go win a Lombardi.
Let's sign Dalton Schultz and go win a freaking 'ship!
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 15, 2021, 11:18:06 AM
AIDS warning but the Fields/Lawrence comparison was interesting
Post by: Johnny English on December 15, 2021, 11:39:19 AM
https://twitter.com/benjaminsolak/status/1471133115506647050?s=21
AIDS warning but the Fields/Lawrence comparison was interesting
I'm not going to question his technical analysis because I'm not smart enough to, but I will say that it's a little unfair to write an article that says "this guy is bad and here's a bunch of video evidence showing him doing bad things, and these other guys are also bad and here's a bunch of video evidence showing them doing good things so they must be not as bad as him". Zach has done good things and shown good signs as well, so while it's possible that all his conclusions are correct, he's deliberately presenting a pretty skewed set of evidence to support them.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 15, 2021, 12:17:52 PM
I'm not going to question his technical analysis because I'm not smart enough to, but I will say that it's a little unfair to write an article that says "this guy is bad and here's a bunch of video evidence showing him doing bad things, and these other guys are also bad and here's a bunch of video evidence showing them doing good things so they must be not as bad as him". Zach has done good things and shown good signs as well, so while it's possible that all his conclusions are correct, he's deliberately presenting a pretty skewed set of evidence to support them.I haven't watched much Lawrence, and Fields is in and out of the lineup, but Wilson has been flat out bad this year. It's been a disappointing rookie season. I don't think the article is unfair.
The last 4 games are massive for Wilson, both in terms of giving him confidence and giving the fan base confidence. If he keeps playing like he has been for most of the season, there will be a negative air around Wilson and the Jets all offseason, and the heat will rightfully be on Joe Douglas.
The good news is that fixing the easy short passes should be correctable. That is stuff we know he should be capable of.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 15, 2021, 12:40:00 PM
I'm not going to question his technical analysis because I'm not smart enough to, but I will say that it's a little unfair to write an article that says "this guy is bad and here's a bunch of video evidence showing him doing bad things, and these other guys are also bad and here's a bunch of video evidence showing them doing good things so they must be not as bad as him". Zach has done good things and shown good signs as well, so while it's possible that all his conclusions are correct, he's deliberately presenting a pretty skewed set of evidence to support them.
I’m not getting into his film breakdown, especially with the apparent bias with the Wilson vs Fields/Lawrence angle.
I found the stats at the end interesting. Conventional stats show us that Wilson had been slightly worse. Eye Test consensus seems to be that all 3 have been pretty bad and it’s like splitting hairs.
These Cherry picked stats tend to show a clear trend:
Wilson vs. Lawrence vs. Fields
Adjusted Net Yards/Att
EPA/drop back
CPOE
Big Time Throw %
Turnover Worthy Play %
Lawrence
4.32 (30)
-.067 (28th)
-6.6 (31st)
3.6% (21st)
3.8% (29th)
Fields
3.87 (31)
-.134 (30th)
-3.2 (29th)
5.9% (7th)
3.9% (30th)
Wilson
3.61 (32)
-.168 (31st)
-8.9 (32nd)
2.9% (29th)
4.4% (35th)
If you aren’t familiar with advanced stats or don’t like using them, fine, but they’re effective and widely accepted for evaluating QB tiers. None of them are made up numbers or skewed to hate the Jets or anything.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 15, 2021, 12:43:17 PM
Statistics are showing that Wilson has been slightly worse. Not a huge deal considering they’re all rookies on bad teams. But it would have been nice if he was outplaying those other 2 bums.
Post by: Johnny English on December 15, 2021, 12:47:12 PM
If you aren’t familiar with advanced stats or don’t like using them, fine, but they’re effective and widely accepted for evaluating QB tiers. None of them are made up numbers or skewed to hate the Jets or anything.
I wasn't saying they were, I was just saying that the way he presented the article was a bit biased against Zach regardless of whether his conclusions were correct or not.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 15, 2021, 12:49:02 PM
I wasn't saying they were, I was just saying that the way he presented the article was a bit biased against Zach regardless of whether his conclusions were correct or not.
Totally agree with this, I hate the author and he’s had a pre-draft bias against Wilson which shines through here. A lot of what he says isn’t wrong, unfortunately.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 15, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
I just want him to play one legitimately good game this season. Say what you want about QBR, but he has not had a game all season with a QBR or 50 or higher outside of the Patriots game when he got hurt early. Darnold's season-long QBR as a rookie is basically the same as Wilson's QBR for his best game (Titans). There is no statistical metric you can point to Wilson and say he's been competent.
We also ask Wilson to do a lot, and he has shown enough flashes to provide hope for the future, but even in his best game (Tennessee), he missed a bunch of open throws that would have iced the game and threw a pick. I was really happy that Wilson was not pleased with his performance after that game because he had a lot to improve, even though the two deep balls in that game were gorgeous.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 15, 2021, 05:43:32 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 15, 2021, 06:02:29 PM
He played well in the Philly game. Not sure why that’s being left out.He played well in the 1st half. That looked like a good building block game. He wasn't that good in the 2nd half, though I get they barely had the ball and it's hard for an offense to get in rhythm when they had like 1 possession in an hour and a half. Overall, he was 60.5% comp and 5.9 yds per att.
I think it's just disappointing he couldn't build on that.
The game obviously needs to slow down for him. He tries to do way too much. I think he will put it together at some point. But I need to see it before the end of the season for my own sanity as a Jets fan.
And it's frustrating because I don't think it's that far off. If Zach makes some of the easy throws he should be able to make, and we don't drop so many damn passes, we should be able to move the ball more consistently offensively.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 15, 2021, 08:20:03 PM
Most everything else about Zach has been expected for me.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 15, 2021, 09:10:20 PM
Part of the problem is that we're using one of the worst receiving HBs on the roster in 3rd down back role, part of it is Wilson not settling down.
Either parts are legitimate gripes to be voiced.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 17, 2021, 08:15:58 AM
It seems across the board QB numbers are notably worse. Both at the top and across the league.
Not sure what the reasoning is behind this, if retires/aging/injuries are a factor, or something else.
But looking at league wide stats it's fairly apparent
Post by: insanity on December 17, 2021, 08:44:30 AM
Warning: this is hyperbole.
If you watched last night's game, mahomes made some really bad throws that were reminiscent of zach wilson: skipped balls, passes that hit kelce in the back, etc. No one is calling Mahomes a bust.
Back to reality:
Mahomes gets a pass because he remedied his misses by the end of the game and came up on top. He's also a hall of fame talent. With that said, it's easy to watch highlights of other quarterbacks on redzone and think no other qb has these accuracy problems. It's easy to think if he makes these easy misses he is a lost cause. Neither of these statements are true. At the end of the day, Zach needs to fix his accuracy issues, but accuracy was never a problem for zach in college, quite frankly it was a strength.
The most important part of being an NFL quarterback, and the most difficult part is being able to read a defense and make the right decision. The game still looks like it is moving a bit fast for Zach, but his mental processing of the game is night and day compared to week 1-3. Through the first 6 games he threw 9 interceptions because he threw into double and triple coverages, as well as misreading coverages. Over the last 3 games though, he has thrown 2 interceptions: the first an unlucky shovel pass, the second a late throw when the jets were down late in a game. Zach is no longer throwing the ball into double coverage or reading the defense wrong. This is improvement gentleman. Additionally as the mental part of the game becomes easier I belive the physical part will as well. The two are tied together.
Lets face it, Zach is not playing well.
He needs to improve his accuracy.
He still needs to improve his ability to quickly read a defense post snap. But, he has only played 9 games. That is barely more than half a season. Let's take the negativity down 2 notches and assess at the end of the year if he's improved or regressed.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 17, 2021, 09:31:10 AM
Mahomes gets a pass because he remedied his misses by the end of the game and came up on top.
This might be an undersell.
I wouldn’t have a single complaint if Zach Wilson had one (1) game this season with 410 yards, 3 TDs, and a win. That would be enough for me to coast on all year.
The throwing mechanics comparison is valid.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 17, 2021, 09:44:53 PM
This might be an undersell.
I wouldn’t have a single complaint if Zach Wilson had one (1) game this season with 410 yards, 3 TDs, and a win. That would be enough for me to coast on all year.
The throwing mechanics comparison is valid.
If Zach Wilson won a SB I wouldn't complain about him having all the 40% completion games he wants.
Most of us look pretty fondly upon Sanchez because of the success he had here. Hell some of us might even have him up on a pedestal as a mini jets legend, while basically everyone else just sees him as butt fumble.
Wilson's done nothing. And quite frankly anytime I see his name even on the same page as Mahomes I want to punch someone in the face
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 18, 2021, 02:18:31 AM
And quite frankly anytime I see his name even on the same page as Mahomes I want to punch someone in the face
Punch yourself in the face
Post by: insanity on December 18, 2021, 08:28:46 AM
If Zach Wilson won a SB I wouldn't complain about him having all the 40% completion games he wants.As much of a linear thinker as you are, you completely missed the point.
Most of us look pretty fondly upon Sanchez because of the success he had here. Hell some of us might even have him up on a pedestal as a mini jets legend, while basically everyone else just sees him as butt fumble.
Wilson's done nothing. And quite frankly anytime I see his name even on the same page as Mahomes I want to punch someone in the face
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 21, 2021, 12:25:29 PM
Wilson, Darnold, Geno and Petty all making appearances, I’ve been having such a great time the past 15 years
Lol Luke Falk and Josh Johnson. We’re def signing Grier, Mannion, or Luton this offseason, book it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 21, 2021, 01:10:06 PM
https://twitter.com/bantsby/status/1473112286864814085?s=21After Darnold's rookie year, we all recognized that his stats as a rookie didn't bode well long-term, but we gave him a million excuses (awful OL, awful weapons, awful coaching, his age, etc). But he ended the year on a couple positive notes to provide us hope.
Wilson, Darnold, Geno and Petty all making appearances, I’ve been having such a great time the past 15 years
Lol Luke Falk and Josh Johnson. We’re def signing Grier, Mannion, or Luton this offseason, book it.
Wilson has been similarly bad statistically as Darnold as a rookie, and worse in a lot of the analytical categories people like to look in. But he hasn't had that end-of-season surge to provide hope yet. With both Darnold and Wilson, we had to point to individual plays here and there that showed off his ceiling, but there were no signs of consistency.
I'm not giving up on Wilson at all, and I still believe in him long-term, but if you look closely at any of the numbers, it's hard to maintain that positivity, especially after we just made all these same excuses with rookie Darnold.
Just praying Wilson can go out and go 22-32 for 300 yards, 3 TD and 0 Int against Jacksonville and give us a reason to believe besides just blind hope and his college tape.
Post by: MBGreen on December 21, 2021, 01:12:24 PM
After Darnold's rookie year, we all recognized that his stats as a rookie didn't bode well long-term, but we gave him a million excuses (awful OL, awful weapons, awful coaching, his age, etc). But he ended the year on a couple positive notes to provide us hope.
Wilson has been similarly bad statistically as Darnold as a rookie, and worse in a lot of the analytical categories people like to look in. But he hasn't had that end-of-season surge to provide hope yet. With both Darnold and Wilson, we had to point to individual plays here and there that showed off his ceiling, but there were no signs of consistency.
I'm not giving up on Wilson at all, and I still believe in him long-term, but if you look closely at any of the numbers, it's hard to maintain that positivity, especially after we just made all these same excuses with rookie Darnold.
Just praying Wilson can go out and go 22-32 for 300 yards, 3 TD and 0 Int against Jacksonville and give us a reason to believe besides just blind hope and his college tape.
I won't lose hope if he doesn't ball out this year. His decision-making has already shown improvement, and he's protecting the ball.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 21, 2021, 02:05:47 PM
I won't lose hope if he doesn't ball out this year. His decision-making has already shown improvement, and he's protecting the ball.
But did you see Justin Fields’ QBR?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 21, 2021, 02:17:09 PM
But did you see Justin Fields’ QBR?It isn't good that you have to vehemently defend Wilson as the 3rd-worst QB in the NFL compared to the 2nd-worst
Post by: Johnny English on December 21, 2021, 02:25:17 PM
After Darnold's rookie year, we all recognized that his stats as a rookie didn't bode well long-term, but we gave him a million excuses (awful OL, awful weapons, awful coaching, his age, etc). But he ended the year on a couple positive notes to provide us hope.I will continue to maintain that we were right to believe in Darnold at this stage and the fact that Wilson is currently on a similar statistical trajectory is no reason not to believe similarly in Zach, unless you think we're also going to give him Gase and Loggains next season.
Wilson has been similarly bad statistically as Darnold as a rookie, and worse in a lot of the analytical categories people like to look in. But he hasn't had that end-of-season surge to provide hope yet. With both Darnold and Wilson, we had to point to individual plays here and there that showed off his ceiling, but there were no signs of consistency.
I'm not giving up on Wilson at all, and I still believe in him long-term, but if you look closely at any of the numbers, it's hard to maintain that positivity, especially after we just made all these same excuses with rookie Darnold.
Just praying Wilson can go out and go 22-32 for 300 yards, 3 TD and 0 Int against Jacksonville and give us a reason to believe besides just blind hope and his college tape.
Post by: Johnny English on December 21, 2021, 02:26:48 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 21, 2021, 02:32:21 PM
I will continue to maintain that we were right to believe in Darnold at this stage and the fact that Wilson is currently on a similar statistical trajectory is no reason not to believe similarly in Zach, unless you think we're also going to give him Gase and Loggains next season.I agree. I still believe in Zach. He is the unquestioned starting quarterback next season and he should be. I am confident he will be our quarterback for the next decade. But am I as confident in him as I was 4 months ago? Not really. I admit some of it might be Darnold PTSD because we made all these same excuses looking at all these same numbers a few years ago, but I was hoping Wilson would be better than a bottom-3 QB as a rookie.
At least Wilson gets a 2nd season with an offensive coordinator who has shown some promise where he can stay in the same system with (hopefully) a good coach. We also have more talent around Wilson on the roster than Darnold did. A lot of those guys are hurt now, but going into next year, Wilson should have a better chance to succeed than Darnold ever did.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 21, 2021, 02:35:54 PM
Also, I don't know why we're using AY/A as a yardstick. Hasn't one of our biggest issues been the lack of easy short completions?Different stat. This is adjusted net yards per attempt.
The statistic begins with “yards per attempt,” passing yards divided by pass attempts. Sacks are added to both the yardage (as negative yards) and the number of attempts – this is the “net” part in the name. The formula is also “adjusted” by adding a positive multiplier for touchdowns (20) and a negative multiplier for interceptions (-45). The final formula is:
(PASSING YARDS – SACK YARDAGE + (20 × TOUCHDOWNS) – (45 × INTERCEPTIONS)) / (PASS ATTEMPTS + SACKS)
http://insidethepylon.com/football-101/glossary-football-101/2016/01/08/itp-glossary-adjusted-net-yards-per-attempt/
Wilson actually ranks right around league average in air yards per attempt. He started the year going way downfield. He's corrected in recent weeks, and now he's pretty average.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 21, 2021, 02:46:34 PM
It isn't good that you have to vehemently defend Wilson as the 3rd-worst QB in the NFL compared to the 2nd-worst
I’m not defending Zach Wilson. I’m just pointing out the obvious.
Fields has been just as bad, but doesn’t get an ounce of scrutiny.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 21, 2021, 02:46:57 PM
LaFleur stinks
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 21, 2021, 03:02:20 PM
I will continue to maintain that we were right to believe in Darnold at this stage and the fact that Wilson is currently on a similar statistical trajectory is no reason not to believe similarly in Zach, unless you think we're also going to give him Gase and Loggains next season.
Giving a 2nd year QB Gase and Loggains is so absurd it doesn’t sound real
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 21, 2021, 03:04:02 PM
I’m not defending Zach Wilson. I’m just pointing out the obvious.
Fields has been just as bad, but doesn’t get an ounce of scrutiny.
Lawrence has been similarly absent of criticism and been painted in a more positive light by the media. Urban Meyer being a lightning rod there helps.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 21, 2021, 03:06:01 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HlBj1E2S1mI&t=57s
LaFleur stinks
wtf is this
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 21, 2021, 03:11:11 PM
Lawrence has been similarly absent of criticism and been painted in a more positive light by the media. Urban Meyer being a lightning rod there helps.
Lawrence has the ultimate excuse for this season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 21, 2021, 03:47:02 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HlBj1E2S1mI&t=57sThanks for sharing this. Looking forward to watching. Love these film breakdowns from people. I don't have time to watch all the all-22, but I love watching others break it down. I enjoyed some of his pre-draft QB stuff (even though he was pretty down on Wilson).
LaFleur stinks
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 21, 2021, 03:48:04 PM
- New York media/fanbase
- Fans losing patience, especially after Darnold
- Wilson looking like that high school douchebag you didn't like
- A lot of people thinking Wilson was some one-year wonder at BYU who played a crappy schedule during a pandemic and thinking it was a stupid pick
- A lot of statistics making Wilson look every bit as bad as some of the worst busts in NFL history
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 21, 2021, 03:48:43 PM
Wilson gets by far the most criticism of the 3, even though all 3 have been bad. It's a combination of
- New York media/fanbase
- Fans losing patience, especially after Darnold
- Wilson looking like that high school douchebag you didn't like
- A lot of people thinking Wilson was some one-year wonder at BYU who played a crappy schedule during a pandemic and thinking it was a stupid pick
- A lot of statistics making Wilson look every bit as bad as some of the worst busts in NFL history
LOL
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 07:47:11 PM
This is something I've thought about a lot lately. Our schedule has done no favors for Zach.
Post by: Badger on December 26, 2021, 01:04:48 PM
"Haven't seen somebody run away from the Jaguars this fast since Urban Meyer"
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 04:24:38 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 26, 2021, 04:33:05 PM
We only gave up 1 sack despite our offensive line being a collection of cast off free agents and recently activated practice squad players. That's a huge step forward for Zach.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 26, 2021, 04:35:48 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 26, 2021, 04:38:24 PM
They played a excrement team today. I sincerely wish they aired it the freak out today. He had good protection for the most part, let's see what he can do. Next few weeks they're playing good to great defenses. There will be a shitton of 3 and outs. JoyAir it out to who?
Mims eats rocks for breakfast...berrios isn't a deep threat...Cole is invisible and Jeff Smith is a bum.
Post by: Laxin on December 26, 2021, 04:42:33 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 04:43:16 PM
Air it out to who?Trevor Lawrence threw the ball 39 times, throwing to a late-career Marvin Jones, and waiver-wire guys in Tavon Austin and Laquon Treadwell, and random backup tight ends.
Mims eats rocks for breakfast...berrios isn't a deep threat...Cole is invisible and Jeff Smith is a bum.
That's not much better than our guys. Jones is better than our guys, but Berrios and Cole are better than any of their other weapons.
Post by: Badger on December 26, 2021, 04:43:36 PM
Mims eats rocks for breakfast
Mims out for season with rock poisoning
Post by: MBGreen on December 26, 2021, 04:45:28 PM
Trevor Lawrence threw the ball 39 times, throwing to a late-career Marvin Jones, and waiver-wire guys in Tavon Austin and Laquon Treadwell, and random backup tight ends.Lawrence threw 39 times because he lost his starting HB and we had a couple of Jags at safety.
That's not much better than our guys. Jones is better than our guys, but Berrios and Cole are better than any of their other weapons.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 04:46:36 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 04:47:47 PM
Lawrence threw 39 times because he lost his starting HB and we had a couple of Jags at safety.The Jaguars secondary sucks, too. And the Jaguars best defensive player was out.
And regardless, I would have loved if Zach threw the ball 39 times today. Him handing off to Carter and Coleman doesn't teach him anything.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 26, 2021, 04:51:41 PM
Trevor Lawrence threw the ball 39 times, throwing to a late-career Marvin Jones, and waiver-wire guys in Tavon Austin and Laquon Treadwell, and random backup tight ends.
That's not much better than our guys. Jones is better than our guys, but Berrios and Cole are better than any of their other weapons.
LOL no.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 04:53:59 PM
LOL no.Bad job by Joe Douglas not signing either Austin or Treadwell then. Both were free agents in August. Should have signed those beasts.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 26, 2021, 04:58:09 PM
Air it out to who?
Mims eats rocks for breakfast...berrios isn't a deep threat...Cole is invisible and Jeff Smith is a bum.
Who the freak cares who he is throwing to. He isn't going to learn by handing it off to Coleman 35 times. If he threw 30 passes like he did to Smith and they drop them,I would be happier then 15 passes for 102 yards.
But hey continue to be obtuse.
Post by: Laxin on December 26, 2021, 05:00:32 PM
Who the freak cares who he is throwing to. He isn't going to learn by handling it off to Coleman 35 times. But hey continue to be obtuse.
True, but if Wilson ended up airing it out 40 times, but got sacked 5+ times and threw a couple picks, its probably not great either.
Post by: MBGreen on December 26, 2021, 05:04:58 PM
Who the freak cares who he is throwing to. He isn't going to learn by handing it off to Coleman 35 times. If he threw 30 passes like he did to Smith and they drop them,I would be happier then 15 passes for 102 yards.If he threw 35 times to this group of WRs, chances are you'd be bitching about 5 INTs instead.
But hey continue to be obtuse.
Maybe sit down.
Post by: MBGreen on December 26, 2021, 05:05:20 PM
True, but if Wilson ended up airing it out 40 times, but got sacked 5+ times and threw a couple picks, its probably not great either.Dammit Laxin...
Lol
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 26, 2021, 05:06:00 PM
Bad job by Joe Douglas not signing either Austin or Treadwell then. Both were free agents in August. Should have signed those beasts.
Honestly, Austin and Treadwell were actually able to get separation this game and Cole hasn't done that all season so...yea.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 26, 2021, 05:07:21 PM
If he threw 35 times to this group of WRs, chances are you'd be bitching about 5 INTs instead.
Maybe sit down.
Herr durr Douglas is awesome Zach showed so much......
better you freaking half wit?
Post by: MBGreen on December 26, 2021, 05:10:13 PM
Herr durr Douglas is awesome Zach showed so much......Lol...maybe watch more than a game or 2. Then perhaps you won't demonstrate you belong at the kids' table.
better you freaking half wit?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 05:10:41 PM
Lol...maybe watch more than a game or 2. Then perhaps you won't demonstrate you belong at the kids' table.You are allowed to be objective.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 26, 2021, 05:11:28 PM
Who the freak cares who he is throwing to. He isn't going to learn by handing it off to Coleman 35 times. If he threw 30 passes like he did to Smith and they drop them,I would be happier then 15 passes for 102 yards.
But hey continue to be obtuse.
Wilson throwing it 40 times to a bunch of WRs who can't catch isn't good for the game in the short-term or Wilson in the long-term. Doing that in a game where Moore, Crowder, and...sigh...Davis are back would be a much better choice.
If the team wasn't decimated by the Omicron variant before this game then I'd agree with you. However, when his receiving options are this bad it really doesn't matter who the defense is. Cole and Mims were both awful today, bad enough we had to call an OT eligible play in order to get a passing TD. He's not going to learn anything good by throwing to these trash players only to watch the ball hit the deck or get penalized because they stepped out of bounds in the process of the play before the ball was in the air.
Post by: MBGreen on December 26, 2021, 05:11:57 PM
You are allowed to be objective.Hes not being objective
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 05:21:22 PM
Hes not being objectiveArguing about how good Laquon Treadwell and Tavon Austin is is not being objective. Arguing that Zach is protecting the ball great when he threw a ball right to the other team that they dropped is not objective.
Post by: MBGreen on December 26, 2021, 05:26:08 PM
Arguing about how good Laquon Treadwell and Tavon Austin is is not being objective. Arguing that Zach is protecting the ball great when he threw a ball right to the other team that they dropped is not objective.No..Puck wants Zach to air it out to a bunch of scrubs just because. Thats not being objective....that's poor strategy.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2021, 05:35:27 PM
Arguing about how good Laquon Treadwell and Tavon Austin is is not being objective. Arguing that Zach is protecting the ball great when he threw a ball right to the other team that they dropped is not objective.
Cisco made a ridiculous break on the ball. Mims was also the target there and did absolutely nothing to attempt to catch it.
“I saw Mims open from the stands” was enough for me to know you couldn’t see a lot of what was happening.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2021, 05:37:23 PM
We’ll be able to see how many alert calls happened (and how many were run plays) but we don’t know the original playcall either.
This is how we should’ve called the offense all season. Protect him and protect the football.
Post by: Johnny English on December 26, 2021, 05:40:01 PM
We won’t know this but how many of these runs did Wilson check to because he read the defense pre-snap?
We’ll be able to see how many alert calls happened (and how many were run plays) but we don’t know the original playcall either.
This is how we should’ve called the offense all season. Protect him and protect the football.
The 52 yard TD run definitely wasn't a designed play, he escaped a collapsed pocket and saw space.
Edit: just realised you probably weren't talking about QB runs.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 05:40:17 PM
“I saw Mims open from the stands” was enough for me to know you couldn’t see a lot of what was happening.That's just freaking stupid. I can see a guy if a guy is about to be wide open 2 seconds into his route.
And I wasn't even criticizing Wilson for not throwing it. The first read was open, so he took it.
I'm only criticizing the idea that Wilson is purposely ignoring a receiver who is open because he doesn't trust him.
It's one thing if Wilson doesn't trust the receiver to make a break at a certain time, so he needs to see the receiver open to throw it.
No quarterback is purposely ignoring wide open receivers because he doesn't trust them to catch it. That's just bullshit and it kills credibility if people actually think that.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2021, 05:49:26 PM
I can see a guy if a guy is about to be wide open 2 seconds into his route.
How are you not an NFL QB?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 26, 2021, 06:30:31 PM
You are allowed to be objective.
Not allowed, you have to parrot everyone's ideas here. The truth is the next time that spineless freak has an original idea would be his first.
Post by: MBGreen on December 26, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
Not allowed, you have to parrot everyone's ideas here. The truth is the next time that spineless freak has an original idea would be his first.
"Hey guys...let's throw 40x to a bunch of bums that have trouble getting separation or catching the ball, that'll tell us how good our rookie QB is"
Post by: reuben on December 26, 2021, 06:55:19 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 06:59:03 PM
Couldn't watch today but that Zach run was a freaking beaut.Was right in front of that sideline. That was awesome. Thought he was going to go down, but he cut back inside to score.
I think in today's NFL, you need your quarterback to be athletic, and Wilson is very athletic. We knew that already, but that was still impressive.
You can argue we have had the most impressive QB runs each of the last 2 seasons now.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2021, 07:17:42 PM
Couldn't watch today but that Zach run was a freaking beaut.
You will love the McDermott TD catch
Post by: reuben on December 26, 2021, 07:34:29 PM
You will love the McDermott TD catch
(https://c.tenor.com/Gm1hICXCSkgAAAAC/the-what-smile.gif)
Post by: reuben on December 26, 2021, 07:36:32 PM
So that's...
Denzel Mims: 0
The worst Jets lineman I've ever seen: 1
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 07:38:06 PM
loooooolMove McDermott to tight end.
So that's...
Denzel Mims: 0
The worst Jets lineman I've ever seen: 1
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 08:01:57 PM
McDermott TD: https://twitter.com/ActionNetworkHQ/status/1475202242156408839
Just saw Wilson called the McDermott play "probably the highlight of my entire life so far." Amazing.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2021, 08:19:10 PM
- career-high 92.5 Total QBR (figured it would be high with his rushing)
- career-low 4.8% off-target percentage
Post by: insanity on December 26, 2021, 08:46:09 PM
I know you guys love QBR, so...Each week since he has come back from injury his accuracy has gotten better
- career-high 92.5 Total QBR (figured it would be high with his rushing)
- career-low 4.8% off-target percentage
Post by: Johnny English on December 26, 2021, 09:50:03 PM
Wilson run: https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1475171447710572547
McDermott TD: https://twitter.com/ActionNetworkHQ/status/1475202242156408839
Just saw Wilson called the McDermott play "probably the highlight of my entire life so far." Amazing.
The look on Zach's face in the end zone after that catch was a thing of beauty. Just stunned joy.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 27, 2021, 01:14:17 AM
The look on Zach's face in the end zone after that catch was a thing of beauty. Just stunned joy.
It was one of the best grabs a teammate has made for him all season, so I get his level of elation.
Post by: MBGreen on December 27, 2021, 08:39:23 AM
Quote
6. I think there’s one thing about very modern football that bothers me a lot, and that’s impatience. This was a headline in The Athletic (which is great, by the way) on Saturday: “Only Zach Wilson can change the Jets’ narrative, and he’s running out of time.” Sheesh. After 14 games, Wilson is on trial for his life? Zach Wilson got drafted by a wayward 2020 franchise, the 2-14 Jets, and he’s struggling. Big deal! Let me remind you of one thing: The first year the Steelers won the Super Bowl was Terry Bradshaw’s fifth season in the NFL. Coming out of camp that year, Bradshaw was beaten out by Joe Gilliam. He regained the starting job, and later in the season, Chuck Noll yanked Bradshaw for Terry Hanratty. Bradshaw won back the job and was the Super Bowl starter that season, the first of four Super Bowl wins in the next six seasons. There’s a reason why the Jets stay awful. Actually there are several. But one is that the media and fans are impatient, and then a collective unconvinced front office/ownership is impatient. In the end, so often, it results in the waste of a very high top pick. Wake up, people.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 27, 2021, 08:40:41 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 27, 2021, 08:49:25 AM
Peter King dunking on Connor Hughes is something I needed to see
yes...i laughed.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 27, 2021, 08:59:13 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 27, 2021, 09:00:38 AM
Lol, freak Connor.Jets wonSPIIIDERMANNNN!!! DC MARVEL OMG RANKING THE MOVIES CARTOON BONERZZ!!!!
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2021, 09:29:06 AM
This was taken from Peter King's column today. A few of you should read this:So bring back Darnold then?
Post by: MBGreen on December 27, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
So bring back Darnold then?
I'd actually ask how you came to that conclusion after reading that....but you're so far gone, that it's not worth it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2021, 09:41:43 AM
I'd actually ask how you came to that conclusion after reading that....but you're so far gone, that it's not worth it.The part you clipped off talks about how you need to be patient with quarterbacks for 5 years. Darnold is in Year 4. Based on the conclusion Peter King has, we should have stuck with Darnold. Not that hard. And no, I'm clearly not serious, but sarcasm must not be your thing.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2021, 09:46:55 AM
But if all we have to point to entering the offseason for Zach's development are a 102-yard passing game against the Jaguars, and a couple nice throws against the Titans, the national narrative around the Jets and Zach are that we're still stuck in the mud, and the quarterback remains a giant question mark going forward, whether that's true or not.
If Zach has a huge game against Tampa or Buffalo, the narrative will be the Jets will be on the rise next season with a young roster and a quarterback who has shown a lot of potential and took a number of strides at the end of the season.
Also, Terry Bradshaw played in the 1970's. At this point, I think we can retire that comparison. The NFL isn't what it was back then, and no quarterback is getting that much time playing as badly as he did. At least the Peyton Manning comparison is more recent.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 27, 2021, 09:47:17 AM
I'd actually ask how you came to that conclusion after reading that....but you're so far gone, that it's not worth it.
It's pretty apparent.
How can you scream WE NEED TO BE PATIENT WITH ZACH WILSON then also justify not even letting Darnold play out his rookie contract.
I imagine his point isn't we need to bring Darnold back, but if we were truly preaching patience he would be our QB right now and Zach Wilson would be somewhere else
Post by: MBGreen on December 27, 2021, 09:51:47 AM
I actually don't think the headline was that bad (didn't read the article). Zach only does have a few weeks to change the narrative entering the offseason. It doesn't have to and won't define his career.
But if all we have to point to entering the offseason for Zach's development are a 102-yard passing game against the Jaguars, and a couple nice throws against the Titans, the national narrative around the Jets and Zach are that we're still stuck in the mud, and the quarterback remains a giant question mark going forward, whether that's true or not.
If Zach has a huge game against Tampa or Buffalo, the narrative will be the Jets will be on the rise next season with a young roster and a quarterback who has shown a lot of potential and took a number of strides at the end of the season.
Also, Terry Bradshaw played in the 1970's. At this point, I think we can retire that comparison. The NFL isn't what it was back then, and no quarterback is getting that much time playing as badly as he did. At least the Peyton Manning comparison is more recent.
Zach doesn't need a huge game this year...that's the point you're failing to grasp. He's in year 1, learning to play in the pros. Keep showing improvement (which he's doing) and building your foundation for 2022. If you thought he was going to throw 300+ yards to a gaggle of scrubs at WR and TE, then i don't know what to tell you.
You're so fixated on Darnold's one game against the Packers....who gives a excrement? He regressed into a POS.
Post by: MBGreen on December 27, 2021, 09:53:46 AM
It's pretty apparent.
How can you scream WE NEED TO BE PATIENT WITH ZACH WILSON then also justify not even letting Darnold play out his rookie contract.
I imagine his point isn't we need to bring Darnold back, but if we were truly preaching patience he would be our QB right now and Zach Wilson would be somewhere else
Darnold had his 3 years to show something....that's the barometer. Zach will get the same 3 years to prove himself.
Darnold is in year 4, with a better team around him....still stinks.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2021, 10:11:13 AM
Zach doesn't need a huge game this year...that's the point you're failing to grasp. He's in year 1, learning to play in the pros. Keep showing improvement (which he's doing) and building your foundation for 2022. If you thought he was going to throw 300+ yards to a gaggle of scrubs at WR and TE, then i don't know what to tell you.I grasp the point completely, thank you very much.
You're so fixated on Darnold's one game against the Packers....who gives a excrement? He regressed into a POS.
I'm talking about the national narrative around Wilson and the Jets. A great game against TB or BUF would change the narrative around Wilson and the Jets heading into the offseason.
It doesn't mean 1 great game will mean Wilson is a guaranteed star, or if he doesn't do it, he will be a bust, but right now, the narrative around the Jets are that we're a laughingstock with a shaky young quarterback.
Post by: MBGreen on December 27, 2021, 10:14:22 AM
I grasp the point completely, thank you very much.
I'm talking about the national narrative around Wilson and the Jets. A great game against TB or BUF would change the narrative around Wilson and the Jets heading into the offseason.
It doesn't mean 1 great game will mean Wilson is a guaranteed star, or if he doesn't do it, he will be a bust, but right now, the narrative around the Jets are that we're a laughingstock with a shaky young quarterback.
You care about narratives? lol....it's year 1. We all knew we were going to be terrible this year.
who gives a excrement
Nobody should care what's being said about us until year 3 or 4.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2021, 10:16:48 AM
You care about narratives? lol....it's year 1. We all knew we were going to be terrible this year.That's a fair reply, but it would be nice to have some national optimism about the Jets for the first time in years, outside of the puff pieces and blind faith behind a new coach/new QB. Overall, it's meaningless, but it's been a while.
who gives a excrement
Post by: MBGreen on December 27, 2021, 10:19:17 AM
That's a fair reply, but it would be nice to have some national optimism about the Jets for the first time in years, outside of the puff pieces and blind faith behind a new coach/new QB. Overall, it's meaningless, but it's been a while.
the optimism will come. I sound like a broken record, but i honestly believe we're heading in the right direction. We just have to endure the bumps along the way until Zach puts it all together. I haven't been this optimistic in awhile, and even though some disagree, i think Joe Douglas will get us there.
It took the Bills 3 years to build a contender. Same with Cincy.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 27, 2021, 11:08:34 AM
Lol, freak Connor.
in his rundown tweet of our draft picks, he wrote '(nice)' after our 3rd round pick, im assuming in an attempt to be funny because it was the 69th pick. so fvcking witty
dude is fvcking horrible. he literally has nothing to offer besides social media twerk antics and shitty review lists about marvel universe, none of which have anything to do with the jets and none of which any jet fan cares about. how the fvck does he have a job on the jets beat. it boggles my mind more than blake cashman's roster spot does
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 27, 2021, 11:13:58 AM
it may not have been the season we hoped for with zach, but he's obviously improved and will have learned a ton by being out there. i think there's an element of PTSD with the fanbase after darnold and collectively we were in denial about him, but we started seeing the writings on the wall by end of season 2, even if we didn't admit it. wilson is no where near a lost cause, and has done nothing to suggest that. let's give him time
Post by: Heismanberg on December 27, 2021, 11:27:42 AM
josh allen was nothing but a shaky question mark at QB (even with solid assets around him) until he got stephon diggs during year 3 of his career
He is one of the most physically gifted QBs to ever step on a field. He just played a small school and was inaccurate due to pee poor mechanics.
There was always a chance he would be elite.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 27, 2021, 11:34:43 AM
He is one of the most physically gifted QBs to ever step on a field. He just played a small school and was inaccurate due to pee poor mechanics.
There was always a chance he would be elite.
the talent and potential as a prospect was totally there from the get. he had some nice moments his first couple of years but was otherwise far from convincing, even for bills fans. maybe the arrival of diggs was coincidental, but he was able to put it all together year 3
overall my point's that even with a sub-par season like this, it's still way too early to call it an L for wilson's development. we have a couple of pieces on O that we can build around for wilson, and if we're able to continue adding to it, i'm sure we'll be seeing developmental jumps from him in the forthcoming seasons
Post by: Heismanberg on December 27, 2021, 11:39:32 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 27, 2021, 11:53:34 AM
We need to get Wilson another receiver, another tight end, and stability at right guard.
We also have a tackle problem, Moses is gone and Becton is an unknown. If LDT comes back then tackle is a bigger concern than guard, IMO.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 27, 2021, 11:56:00 AM
We also have a tackle problem, Moses is gone and Becton is an unknown. If LDT comes back then tackle is a bigger concern than guard, IMO.
I think Moses and Fant will both be retained.
LDT hasn't been good. He's just better than GVR.
It's why I'm OK with taking Ekwonu up top in the draft. He can play guard and tackle. If Becton doesn't pan out, Ekwonu can play tackle.
Post by: Johnny English on December 27, 2021, 12:09:30 PM
I think Moses and Fant will both be retained.
LDT hasn't been good. He's just better than GVR.
It's why I'm OK with taking Ekwonu up top in the draft. He can play guard and tackle. If Becton doesn't pan out, Ekwonu can play tackle.
Fant for sure will be kept, but I'm not sure what Moses will want to do. Given how long he has left he might not want to stick around if Fant and Becton are the presumptive starters.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2021, 12:17:11 PM
I think Moses and Fant will both be retained.Exactly.
LDT hasn't been good. He's just better than GVR.
It's why I'm OK with taking Ekwonu up top in the draft. He can play guard and tackle. If Becton doesn't pan out, Ekwonu can play tackle.
I don't really want a pure interior OL in the top 10. But we need to continue to build the OL, especially with Becton's health being a question mark.
Fant has been legitimately good, so it seems like a waste to spend a high pick on a guy who is purely a tackle and nothing else. We don't have that many strengths, and OT is one of them. But both Ekwonu and Neal seem to shape up as very good guard and tackle prospects.
I'm not sure if Moses will want to come back though. He probably thought he would beat out Fant for the job when he signed, and he didn't. He might try to get a more guaranteed starting job elsewhere.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2021, 12:21:33 PM
the talent and potential as a prospect was totally there from the get. he had some nice moments his first couple of years but was otherwise far from convincing, even for bills fans. maybe the arrival of diggs was coincidental, but he was able to put it all together year 3Development isn't linear, especially as a rookie. Usually you see a lot of signs early on as a rookie that the QB is the answer. I think it's pretty safe to say that so far, it's been a mildly disappointing rookie season for him. However, he hasn't been a disaster, and he's gotten better as the season has gone on.
overall my point's that even with a sub-par season like this, it's still way too early to call it an L for wilson's development. we have a couple of pieces on O that we can build around for wilson, and if we're able to continue adding to it, i'm sure we'll be seeing developmental jumps from him in the forthcoming seasons
The other positive with Wilson is that he's been getting better as his supporting cast has been getting worse. I really look forward to Elijah Moore coming back this week.
Hard to compare a young QB to Allen though. Allen is a unicorn. Wilson is athletic and has a good arm, but Allen is in another stratosphere.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 27, 2021, 01:58:18 PM
Fant for sure will be kept, but I'm not sure what Moses will want to do. Given how long he has left he might not want to stick around if Fant and Becton are the presumptive starters.
Moses did turn down a 2 year offer from the Jets initially preferring a one year deal
I don't think it's unrealistic for Moses to get 30+ million on his next contract
For perspective the 20th highest paid RT has an APY over 6 million
So I'd wager something like 4 years low 30s is probably not unrealistic
Post by: Heismanberg on December 27, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
I don't think it's unrealistic for Moses to get 30+ million on his next contract
If he wants that much, he can walk.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 27, 2021, 02:08:14 PM
If he wants that much, he can walk.
I don't know how much lower he could go than that.
This year he's probably going to make a little over 5 million on his prove it deal assuming he hit the 80% snaps marker.
Then again he will be 31 so he might be okay with a 3 year deal. Regardless I think he's played well enough to get paid like a top 20 RT, which means north of 7 million a year which isn't a whole lot more than he's making now
Though honestly I'd be totally cool if he got a 3 year deal with a 7 to 8m APY kind of thing. Have him completely off the books before Becton is due for his, assuming he's still on the team
Post by: bojanglesman on December 27, 2021, 02:18:39 PM
I don't know how much lower he could go than that.I don't know how you can pay Moses what he should get if he isn't guaranteed to start here. If it somehow works out that they want Moses to start at RT, I'm fine with paying him what he deserves, regardless of his age. I just don't see that happening unless they somehow quit on Becton which I can't imagine unless he shows up to camp at 450 lbs. and limping.
This year he's probably going to make a little over 5 million on his prove it deal assuming he hit the 80% snaps marker.
Then again he will be 31 so he might be okay with a 3 year deal. Regardless I think he's played well enough to get paid like a top 20 RT, which means north of 7 million a year which isn't a whole lot more than he's making now
Though honestly I'd be totally cool if he got a 3 year deal with a 7 to 8m APY kind of thing. Have him completely off the books before Becton is due for his, assuming he's still on the team
Someone will pay Moses to start and I don't think it'll be us. And I won't blame Douglas one bit for letting him walk unless we need him to start for sure. We got lucky getting Moses on a cheap deal as a backup tackle initially. That won't happen again here.
We have Fant under contract for 2022. I'm willing to wager it'll be Fant and Becton in 2022. Your guess is as good as mine as to who plays which side. Moses has played very well and will get to start somewhere.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2021, 02:29:13 PM
Moses did turn down a 2 year offer from the Jets initially preferring a one year dealThe guy was available deep into training camp this time around and settled for a cheap 1-year deal. We got a great deal on him, but it seems like a leap to think he'll go from his current deal to a 4-year deal for $8M AAV. And if he does, there will be a lot of fake money on that deal.
I don't think it's unrealistic for Moses to get 30+ million on his next contract
For perspective the 20th highest paid RT has an APY over 6 million
So I'd wager something like 4 years low 30s is probably not unrealistic
Post by: bojanglesman on December 27, 2021, 02:43:52 PM
The guy was available deep into training camp this time around and settled for a cheap 1-year deal. We got a great deal on him, but it seems like a leap to think he'll go from his current deal to a 4-year deal for $8M AAV. And if he does, there will be a lot of fake money on that deal.He got surprisingly released late in May. We signed him a month later.
The top 10 RT contracts are all above $9 million per year. He's good and durable.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 27, 2021, 02:58:51 PM
The guy was available deep into training camp this time around and settled for a cheap 1-year deal. We got a great deal on him, but it seems like a leap to think he'll go from his current deal to a 4-year deal for $8M AAV. And if he does, there will be a lot of fake money on that deal.
I don't think he will get much more than 8.
But he's going to get more than the 5 and change he made this year. And the Jets allegedly made him a better offer for 2 years that he had turned down.
Purely speculating but I think the most team friendly deal soneone will get Moses on is 3 years for somewhere in the ballpark of 21 mill.
That probably ends up putting him right around the 20th best paid RT in the league. Which I don't think is an unreasonable assessment.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2021, 02:59:19 PM
He got surprisingly released late in May. We signed him a month later.Meant to say deep into the offseason, not training camp
The top 10 RT contracts are all above $9 million per year. He's good and durable.
For some reason, I thought we signed him in July.
Obviously, him getting cut late hurt his value.
Post by: reuben on December 27, 2021, 06:43:07 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/01/14/sports/14dallas.1.190.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 28, 2021, 09:17:08 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 28, 2021, 01:14:34 PM
Post by: reuben on December 28, 2021, 01:21:08 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 28, 2021, 01:22:55 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 28, 2021, 01:24:13 PM
Are we the only fans that vote on that excrement? I feel like it's been a Jets blowout every time one of our players is nominated.
The Pepsi Rookie of the Week Award is all we have
And Mike White’s NVP
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 28, 2021, 01:25:16 PM
Post by: Badger on December 28, 2021, 01:35:35 PM
Are we the only fans that vote on that excrement? I feel like it's been a Jets blowout every time one of our players is nominated.Seems that way. We're an excitable bunch.
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2022, 03:49:15 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2022, 03:50:04 PM
He was very good this week, too.
Looking forward to him playing with actual wide receivers and tight ends and running backs and offensive linemen.
Post by: Laxin on January 02, 2022, 04:50:45 PM
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2022, 08:19:44 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2022, 08:44:43 AM
https://twitter.com/Djbienaime/status/1477851050912751620?t=JvuEETyUDTV3mjiwTJQ4lA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/Djbienaime/status/1477851050912751620?t=JvuEETyUDTV3mjiwTJQ4lA&s=19)
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2022, 12:50:20 PM
Quote
Bob Wischusen
@espnbob
·
20h
Jets fans shouldn’t dwell on the QB sneak…
The way Zach Wilson played today without his starting center, with a 3rd string LT, without his top 2 WRs, his top 3 TEs and his top 2 RBs for most of the game has a MUCH bigger bearing on the future of the Jets than 1 bad play
Uncle Bob knows the score
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2022, 02:11:32 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 03, 2022, 02:21:04 PM
Correction: he had his top TE.
i want/need to see more from bwoi next week
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2022, 02:50:50 PM
i want/need to see more from bwoi next week
I'm not saying he's a great TE, just that he's probably the best one on the roster.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2022, 09:27:45 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2022, 09:41:56 PM
https://twitter.com/thestevenruiz/status/1478103875949314055?s=21
https://twitter.com/benjaminsolak/status/1478081525572935684?s=21
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 03, 2022, 09:57:00 PM
https://twitter.com/thestevenruiz/status/1478103875949314055?s=21
This is an absolutely bizarre take.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2022, 10:03:08 PM
This is an absolutely bizarre take.
He has bizarre hatred for Zach that I’ve posted on here. I have my eye on that loser
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2022, 10:04:28 PM
I know Stuttering Bill does.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 03, 2022, 10:05:11 PM
Doesn't he love Justin Fields?
That's usually the common denominator.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 03, 2022, 10:09:02 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2022, 10:52:03 PM
Wilson vs. Fields has always been a proxy race war. In the end, everyone loses.
Except for Kellen Mond truthers
https://twitter.com/iankenyonnfl/status/1477874858352590851?s=21
Post by: Libero_2 on January 04, 2022, 01:07:20 AM
Except for Kellen Mond truthers
https://twitter.com/iankenyonnfl/status/1477874858352590851?s=21
Ooof. Hundreds of ways Zimmer could have answered that question, he took the “that guy is total trash” approach, not too dissimilar to Bowles take on Hackenberg
Post by: Heismanberg on January 04, 2022, 06:23:30 AM
Post by: casman02 on January 04, 2022, 05:34:04 PM
Quote
NFL345
@NFL345
.
@MacJones_10
,
@treylance09
, Ja’Marr Chase (
@Real10jayy__
),
@amonra_stbrown
, Rhamondre Stevenson (
@dreeday32
), Najee Harris (
@ohthatsNajee22
) – nominees for
@Pepsi
Zero Sugar
@NFL
Rookie of Week 17: https://nfl.com/voting/rookies/
Post by: MBGreen on January 06, 2022, 10:09:33 AM
@RichCimini
·
3m
LaFleur says Wilson will go home to Utah in the offseason and will work with John Beck, his private coach-turned-Jets assistant. Asked whether Beck will be back with the Jets next season, LaFleur says they haven’t “tackled” that yet. Guess is probably not. #Jets
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2022, 10:17:03 AM
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
3m
LaFleur says Wilson will go home to Utah in the offseason and will work with John Beck, his private coach-turned-Jets assistant. Asked whether Beck will be back with the Jets next season, LaFleur says they haven’t “tackled” that yet. Guess is probably not. #Jets
It's pretty normal for players to go home in the offseason.
It was cool to see Cavanaugh meet him on the sidelines after the Berrios TD throw. Hopefully he gets promoted to QB coach.
Post by: MBGreen on January 06, 2022, 10:18:05 AM
It's pretty normal for players to go home in the offseason.
Beck probably not returning was more of the news nugget in this tweet.
Post by: reuben on January 06, 2022, 02:46:44 PM
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
3m
LaFleur says Wilson will go home to Utah in the offseason and will work with John Beck, his private coach-turned-Jets assistant. Asked whether Beck will be back with the Jets next season, LaFleur says they haven’t “tackled” that yet. Guess is probably not. #Jets
I was wondering how this was going to work, because isn't it verboten for coaches to work with players during the offseason?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 06, 2022, 03:43:10 PM
I was wondering how this was going to work, because isn't it verboten for coaches to work with players during the offseason?
It is. I'm not sure if it's possible to circumvent that by rehiring him once minicamp rolls around.
Post by: Johnny English on January 06, 2022, 03:50:51 PM
It is. I'm not sure if it's possible to circumvent that by rehiring him once minicamp rolls around.
I'm not sure they'd want or need to. My recollection is that Zach had already got him on contract as his personal coach and the Jets contracted him for the season so he could be completely familiar with the concepts and language that the team was using, making for more effective coaching one to one. Beck's got a separate coaching business already with other clients so I doubt he would want or need to stay on contract with the Jets now that he's built the working relationship with MLF and his guys.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 06, 2022, 04:18:43 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 06, 2022, 05:52:57 PM
Garbage List. IMO can't rank Taysom Hill and Davis Mills ahead of Zach
Post by: Johnny English on January 06, 2022, 05:55:41 PM
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-18-2021-season-rankings
Garbage List. IMO can't rank Taysom Hill and Davis Mills ahead of Zach
And Tyler Huntley. And Trevor Lawrence.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 07, 2022, 07:59:03 AM
Let’s go ahead and and ignore that list
Post by: ons on January 07, 2022, 09:54:39 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 07, 2022, 10:02:28 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2022, 07:00:11 PM
Zach better than Faker and Lamar confirmed.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2022, 07:35:54 PM
Hopefully he puts together one more solid game to build momentum into the offseason. On the road in January at Buffalo with all your receivers hurt is not an ideal situation.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2022, 07:53:44 PM
I think we can all agree we were hoping for more from Zach as a rookie, but he got better as the season went on and he has shown enough flashes to be confident he will develop into the guy. It is a shame the entire offense got hurt after he came back from injury.Zach made mistakes and played badly, learned from his mistakes, and showed consistent improvement every week right until the end of the season.
Hopefully he puts together one more solid game to build momentum into the offseason. On the road in January at Buffalo with all your receivers hurt is not an ideal situation.
It's exactly what you would expect from a rookie QB.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 08, 2022, 08:31:17 PM
Zach made mistakes and played badly, learned from his mistakes, and showed consistent improvement every week right until the end of the season.not to defend stalls too much…. But I think his point here is statistically speaking.
It's exactly what you would expect from a rookie QB.
In terms of yards and TDs Zach definitely underperformed expectations.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2022, 08:34:11 PM
not to defend stalls too much…. But I think his point here is statistically speaking.Depends what your expectations were.
In terms of yards and TDs Zach definitely underperformed expectations.
I didn't expect Zach to throw 30-40 TDs this year.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 08, 2022, 08:36:44 PM
Depends what your expectations were.
I didn't expect Zach to throw 30-40 TDs this year.
No one with a brain thought he’d do that. But expecting him to throw for 15 TDs (0.88 per game) is not a crazy expectation. Barring the greatest game ever, he won’t get to that number. Might not even get to 10 this season. There’s no way even the darkest sides of fans would have expected that statistical output without Zach missing 2/3 of the season.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2022, 08:43:19 PM
No one with a brain thought he’d do that. But expecting him to throw for 15 TDs (0.88 per game) is not a crazy expectation. Barring the greatest game ever, he won’t get to that number. Might not even get to 10 this season. There’s no way even the darkest sides of fans would have expected that statistical output without Zach missing 2/3 of the season.Well..he does have 4 rushing TDs in addition to his 8 passing TDs.
He can still get close to or reach your 15 TD expectation.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2022, 08:57:39 PM
He's a very good athlete with a very good arm who seems very smart and works hard. That is a great combination.
And he's gotten better as the season has gone on, despite the supporting cast around him getting a great deal worse.
Post by: Johnny English on January 10, 2022, 08:27:54 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2022, 08:35:03 AM
Zach finished the year with very similar stats to Josh Allen in his rookie year. Hopefully we can have a similarly effective free agency and draft as the Bills did in 2019.
Calvin Ridley could be our Diggs
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2022, 08:50:04 AM
Calvin Ridley could be our Diggs
Except Diggs has mental stability.
Post by: klaximilian on January 10, 2022, 05:27:09 PM
Except Diggs has mental stability.
How quickly we forget about Brandon Marshall.
Post by: reuben on January 10, 2022, 05:31:28 PM
Except Diggs has mental stability.
Elijah Moore apparently counseled AJ Brown through some serious excrement, maybe he could be like our resident slot/therapist hybrid.
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2022, 07:44:56 PM
How quickly we forget about Brandon Marshall.Yes...Ridley's issue is exactly like Marshall's. Mental illness is identical for everyone.
Post by: Badger on January 10, 2022, 07:55:30 PM
Yes...Ridley's issue is exactly like Marshall's. Mental illness is identical for everyone.You're right. Marshall's issues seemed much worse before he got them under control.
Post by: klaximilian on January 10, 2022, 08:00:37 PM
Yes...Ridley's issue is exactly like Marshall's. Mental illness is identical for everyone.
Lol response. What are you even arguing at this point?
Post by: Badger on January 10, 2022, 08:01:53 PM
Lol response. What are you even arguing at this point?Yes.
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2022, 08:03:00 PM
You're right. Marshall's issues seemed much worse before he got them under control.Sometimes it doesn't work out that way unfortunately. Not everyone gets their excrement together.
I hope ridley does, he's a talented kid.
I dont think he's worth risking a 1st rounder on. Just my .02
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2022, 08:04:28 PM
Lol response. What are you even arguing at this point?You just posted that Marshall got help and was able to continue his career...which automatically applies to Ridley. Am I missing something?
Post by: klaximilian on January 10, 2022, 08:07:23 PM
You just posted that Marshall got help and was able to continue his career...which automatically applies to Ridley. Am I missing something?
Welp, you’ve been missing quite a few things since 2004. It’s a long list. I really don’t have time to go through it all buddy.
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2022, 08:08:31 PM
Welp, you’ve been missing quite a few things since 2004. It’s a long list. I really don’t have time to go through it all buddy.That's what I thought...move along
Post by: Badger on January 10, 2022, 08:11:44 PM
Sometimes it doesn't work out that way unfortunately. Not everyone gets their excrement together.I agree about a 1st. But I'd do it for a 2nd without hesitation.
I hope ridley does, he's a talented kid.
I dont think he's worth risking a 1st rounder on. Just my .02
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 10, 2022, 08:13:02 PM
Lol response. What are you even arguing at this point?
https://youtu.be/ohDB5gbtaEQ?t=69 (https://youtu.be/ohDB5gbtaEQ?t=69)
Post by: klaximilian on January 10, 2022, 08:14:05 PM
I agree about a 1st. But I'd do it for a 2nd without hesitation.
Agreed. I think he can be had for a 2nd, maybe a future mid rounder tossed in as well.
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2022, 08:14:58 PM
I agree about a 1st. But I'd do it for a 2nd without hesitation.Yeah...a 2nd is doable.
I think Ridley is amazing...but he actually "retired" mid-season. Is he even coming back?
Post by: insanity on January 10, 2022, 10:32:26 PM
Yes...Ridley's issue is exactly like Marshall's. Mental illness is identical for everyone.Finally we are on the same page
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 11, 2022, 07:53:49 AM
Except Diggs has mental stability.
Diggs was much more difficult in Minn than Ridley was in ATL
Post by: reuben on January 13, 2022, 03:31:19 PM
John Beck is his girlfriend now.
Post by: Johnny English on January 13, 2022, 03:35:09 PM
https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/zach-wilson-girlfriend-quietly-scrub-each-other-off-instagram (https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/zach-wilson-girlfriend-quietly-scrub-each-other-off-instagram)
John Beck is his girlfriend now.
I know NFL quarterbacks generally don't have ugly girlfriends, but she is traffic stopping levels of beautiful.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 13, 2022, 03:41:17 PM
Post by: Badger on January 13, 2022, 03:52:14 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 13, 2022, 04:01:08 PM
Post by: delavan on January 13, 2022, 06:57:25 PM
And autosuck comes as standard
Post by: Miamipuck on January 13, 2022, 07:34:53 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 13, 2022, 10:23:55 PM
Bad news is the chances of that is roughly the same as the odds of DCM becoming the next GM of the NY Giants
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 13, 2022, 10:37:39 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 14, 2022, 04:56:59 AM
Zach is gonna be soaking in random fangirl puss all offseason
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/mormon-soaking-jump-humping
Post by: delavan on January 14, 2022, 08:09:34 AM
And she turns into a roast beef sandwich at midnight
#perfection
Post by: Miamipuck on January 14, 2022, 08:24:28 AM
Zach is gonna be soaking in random fangirl puss all offseasonIf you have a Bugatti Chiron why drive a Mustang even if it's getting a tuneup?
Post by: MBGreen on January 14, 2022, 08:32:42 AM
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/01/11322-abbey-gile-2.jpg?quality=90&strip=all
And she turns into a roast beef sandwich at midnight
#perfection
ooooh baby
Post by: Badger on January 14, 2022, 10:18:19 AM
Quote
The secondary benefit to having John Beck with Wilson on a day-to-day basis is about to come into play -- offseason training.
Now that Beck has left the team to return to Los Angeles, where he operates a quarterback training facility, he can continue to "coach" Wilson after Jan. 31 without it being a violation of league rules, which prohibits players from having contact with coaches until April. Beck is back to being a private instructor, not an NFL coach. To say the Jets found a loophole might be a stretch, but the arrangement should help Wilson get a jump on his first full offseason.
"I think the cool thing is John got to witness firsthand, I guess, the struggles, the things I had to deal with as a rookie, the things that we had to go through as a team and so, it’s going to be easy for us to say, ‘Hey, these are the big points of emphasis that we were really trying to work on every single week,'" Wilson said.
Nothing will be lost in translation because, for the second half of the season, Beck attended every meeting, every practice and every game. He already knew Wilson, having coached him for years, but now he knows the inner workings of the Jets' offense and can teach him accordingly in the coming months. It's unclear if Beck, a former NFL quarterback, will be part of the Jets' staff for the 2022 season.
Post by: Johnny English on January 14, 2022, 10:21:22 AM
(https://c.tenor.com/YcBkWBbMHB4AAAAC/boo-boo-this-man.gif)
To make up for Badger's heinous error, here's another picture of her:
(https://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-10-at-5.58.31-PM.jpg)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 14, 2022, 10:55:26 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 14, 2022, 10:57:15 AM
Chick was probably mad that he would only give her the tip
lmao
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 14, 2022, 01:20:59 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 14, 2022, 01:25:07 PM
https://twitter.com/sethwalder/status/1482055564570079234?s=21
(https://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-10-at-5.50.43-PM-1.png)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2022, 08:08:53 AM
(https://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-10-at-5.50.43-PM-1.png)
https://twitter.com/greggrosenthal/status/1482068705424990210?s=21
Post by: bojanglesman on January 15, 2022, 09:29:49 AM
(https://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-10-at-5.50.43-PM-1.png)
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 15, 2022, 09:42:06 AM
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1482365514408243210?t=CYITEHblrJaEgRDiVqifNA&s=19
(https://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-10-at-5.50.43-PM-1.png)
First round WR, second round TE, please.
Post by: reuben on January 15, 2022, 02:15:53 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 15, 2022, 03:27:20 PM
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1482365514408243210 (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1482365514408243210)Scroll up.
Post by: Johnny English on January 15, 2022, 03:35:23 PM
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1482365514408243210 (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1482365514408243210)
a) already posted
b) you forgot this
(http://www.egotasticsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/abbey.gile15595760802058195785215924039_409435879.jpg)
Post by: reuben on January 15, 2022, 03:57:14 PM
Post by: delavan on January 15, 2022, 10:04:50 PM
^ from here he can go classy
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/KarenLorre_DSF9696-RGB-12x15_flip.jpg/185px-KarenLorre_DSF9696-RGB-12x15_flip.jpg)
or trashy
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Étnica%2C_Karen_Dejo.jpg/123px-Étnica%2C_Karen_Dejo.jpg)
or crazy
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Karen_Black_Five_Easy_Pieces_1970.jpg/170px-Karen_Black_Five_Easy_Pieces_1970.jpg)
or lazy
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Karen_Wazen.jpg/201px-Karen_Wazen.jpg)
just stay healthy, stealthy & wise
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2022, 07:26:16 AM
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2022, 08:09:28 AM
Post by: insanity on January 16, 2022, 09:10:19 AM
He should ask Berrios if there are any more Culpo sisters.He should just steal McCaffrey's
Post by: delavan on January 16, 2022, 11:52:51 AM
He should just steal McCaffrey's
Speaking of McCaffrey's...
https://pagesix.com/2022/01/14/olivia-culpo-asked-by-american-airlines-to-put-on-a-blouse-before-flight/?_ga=2.258792458.1032414237.1642355351-1716112216.1642355351
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2022, 01:04:46 PM
Speaking of McCaffrey's...3rd Culpo sister confirmed
https://pagesix.com/2022/01/14/olivia-culpo-asked-by-american-airlines-to-put-on-a-blouse-before-flight/?_ga=2.258792458.1032414237.1642355351-1716112216.1642355351
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2022, 01:57:41 PM
3rd Culpo sister confirmed
She also has two brothers.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2022, 02:42:15 PM
She also has two brothers.Maybe Zach broke up with her because he discovered something about himself.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2022, 02:49:24 PM
Maybe Zach broke up with her because he discovered something about himself.
New York could do that to a starry eyed boy from Utah discovering the big city for the first time.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2022, 02:53:47 PM
Post by: delavan on January 16, 2022, 03:48:09 PM
Zach Wilson is now in a throuple with Pete Davidson and Kim K.
No way our QB snuggles with stubble
And even if he did, Pete Davidson's a facial trainwreck who looks like Jon Cryer with aids - Zach's waay outta his league... ; )
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Pete_Davidson_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg/180px-Pete_Davidson_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2022, 04:55:31 PM
Maybe Zach broke up with her because he discovered something about himself.Maybe she has a weiner.
Post by: delavan on January 17, 2022, 04:40:29 AM
Maybe she has had a weiner.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Huma_Abedin_111020-S-PA947-1204.jpg/180px-Huma_Abedin_111020-S-PA947-1204.jpg)
Post by: Gorilla on January 17, 2022, 04:04:54 PM
And even if he did, Pete Davidson's a facial trainwreck who looks like Jon Cryer with aids - Zach's waay outta his league... ; )
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Pete_Davidson_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg/180px-Pete_Davidson_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg)
Accurate. Also would have accepted "Jon Cryer on meth".
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 19, 2022, 06:25:53 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2022, 01:59:44 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2022, 02:03:02 PM
https://twitter.com/pff_jets/status/1484189930855280640?s=21
Lots of these stats are a bit dumb but this one isn't. Being consistently smart with the ball in the red zone is an awesome trait for a rookie QB.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 20, 2022, 02:17:47 PM
Lots of these stats are a bit dumb but this one isn't. Being consistently smart with the ball in the red zone is an awesome trait for a rookie QB.
Chad was outstanding at this very skill
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2022, 02:25:47 PM
Lots of these stats are a bit dumb but this one isn't. Being consistently smart with the ball in the red zone is an awesome trait for a rookie QB.
He took really good care of the football when he came back from the injury
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2022, 03:00:16 PM
He took really good care of the football when he came back from the injury
I just looked at the actual numbers and they're unbelievably good. In the 7 games he played after coming back from injury he threw 2 picks (0 in the last 5 games) and lost 1 fumble. In those same 7 games he was sacked 26 times.
3 TOs in 7 games with that sort of constant pressure is outstanding performance that every single QB in the league from Brady down would be proud of. For comparison, in the same 7 games Brady had 6 TOs (5 INTs and 1 lost fumble) and was sacked 10 times.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2022, 03:38:48 PM
I'm sure some of those sacks were on Wilson, but he was typically under constant pressure
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2022, 03:57:02 PM
10 sacks vs. 26 sacks is rough to see
I'm sure some of those sacks were on Wilson, but he was typically under constant pressure
Yeah. Over a 16 game season that would extrapolate to 59 sacks. David Carr took 76 in his rookie season.
59 sacks in a single season would make for the 10th most sacks in a QB season in NFL history.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 20, 2022, 04:19:47 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 20, 2022, 04:19:56 PM
Post by: Badger on January 20, 2022, 06:17:42 PM
Wilson's season totals vs his totals minus his best and worst games (TEN and NWE 4-int)
Wilson's totals in games when getting sacked 4 or more times vs getting sacked less than 4 times
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2022, 06:26:25 PM
Wilson's season totals vs his totals minus his best and worst games (TEN and NWE 4-int)
7 TDs 6 INTs 1827 yards 173 comp 316 att 54.7%
Wilson's totals in games when getting sacked 4 or more times vs getting sacked less than 4 times
Less than 4 sacks - 6 TDs 3 INTs 121 comp 211 att 57.3%
4 or more sacks - 3 TDs 8 INTs 92 comp 172 att 53.5%
Can't be bothered working out yards on these and I don't think it particularly matters.
Post by: Badger on January 20, 2022, 06:54:48 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 21, 2022, 10:02:18 AM
He took really good care of the football when he came back from the injury
In that interview the other day Berrios said he was “a completely different player” after returning
Post by: Laxin on January 21, 2022, 10:37:56 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 23, 2022, 11:40:40 PM
Not sure it’s been mentioned, but Wilson had 6 completions to the 1 yard line that didn’t end up as passing TDs. Pretty bad luck.
And you’re just mentioning this now? With Zach’s reputation on the line?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 17, 2022, 07:16:42 AM
This guy soaks
Post by: bojanglesman on February 17, 2022, 07:18:34 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/0ZSngD3/FA1-A8-B93-FBA4-4-FD3-8-DE9-202-FCAAEC9-D0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CvZwk1F)He'll bring in Gunner Romney as his jump humper.
This guy soaks
Post by: MBGreen on February 17, 2022, 07:20:46 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/0ZSngD3/FA1-A8-B93-FBA4-4-FD3-8-DE9-202-FCAAEC9-D0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CvZwk1F)
This guy soaks
He looks like he's fingering both blonds under that blanket.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 17, 2022, 07:23:25 AM
He looks like he's fingering both blonds under that blanket.One on the left looks like she's getting after herself.
Post by: MBGreen on February 17, 2022, 07:24:45 AM
One on the left looks like she's getting after herself.
his hand is there too...helping build that beef n cheddar
Post by: Johnny English on February 17, 2022, 08:04:43 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2022, 11:00:01 AM
Post by: Badger on March 29, 2022, 11:14:52 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 29, 2022, 11:47:43 PM
https://nypost.com/2022/03/29/jets-qb-zach-wilson-spotted-at-the-beach-with-bikini-clad-pal/4/10, 1% too high body fat.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 30, 2022, 04:59:59 AM
https://nypost.com/2022/03/29/jets-qb-zach-wilson-spotted-at-the-beach-with-bikini-clad-pal/
The is the type of paparazzi excrement that’s over the line IMO. That woman is just hanging out and now she is plastered all over the NYP and someone is going to spend time investigating her to find out who she is and what her background is on the off chance she is banging one of the boys
Post by: insanity on March 30, 2022, 06:21:47 AM
The real story here is why do zach and Braxton have matching gold palm tree necklaces?
Post by: Badger on March 30, 2022, 06:33:33 AM
Terrible journalism.MB and I have matching Arby's decoder rings.
The real story here is why do zach and Braxton have matching gold palm tree necklaces?
Post by: MBGreen on March 30, 2022, 06:59:57 AM
MB and I have matching Arby's decoder rings.
this info was classified
Post by: insanity on March 30, 2022, 07:14:40 AM
MB and I have matching Arby's decoder rings.Do they go on your rooster or finger?
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 30, 2022, 07:24:06 AM
Do they go on your rooster or finger?
Anus
Post by: Miamipuck on March 30, 2022, 10:08:42 AM
Anus
So they lost one?
Post by: Badger on March 30, 2022, 11:10:40 AM
Do they go on your rooster or finger?Yes
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 30, 2022, 06:47:30 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 30, 2022, 06:50:49 PM
his old girl is superiorSpeaking of old, this girl looks 40. I mean, if he wants to go the Stifler's mom route that's cool.
Post by: delavan on March 30, 2022, 07:42:37 PM
Speaking of old, this girl looks 40. I mean, if he wants to go the Stifler's mom route that's cool.(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Jennifer_Coolidge_-_Cropped.jpg/181px-Jennifer_Coolidge_-_Cropped.jpg)
Ms. SoBe (very doable imho) could use some sunblock; Zach's minimalist pecs could use some bench reps
Post by: bojanglesman on March 31, 2022, 07:08:22 AM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Jennifer_Coolidge_-_Cropped.jpg/181px-Jennifer_Coolidge_-_Cropped.jpg)Don't disparage QB1's titties.
Ms. SoBe (very doable imho) could use some sunblock; Zach's minimalist pecs could use some bench reps
Post by: reuben on March 31, 2022, 11:04:48 AM
Yessss, I want those screens to Carter to be our bread and butter.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 02, 2022, 11:25:04 PM
https://nypost.com/2022/03/29/jets-qb-zach-wilson-spotted-at-the-beach-with-bikini-clad-pal/
Ugh, this chick looks like she doesn’t put out
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 02, 2022, 11:26:26 PM
his old girl is superior
She couldn’t handle more than 1.5 inches
Post by: Heismanberg on April 02, 2022, 11:39:11 PM
She couldn’t handle more than 1.5 inches
She couldn’t handle the Super Soaker CPS 2000
Post by: Badger on April 06, 2022, 03:14:23 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 06, 2022, 10:12:19 PM
https://twitter.com/jayfeely/status/1511498134064488451?s=20&t=otooCagtiMXJEztPkixgYA
mims has the 'i know im getting cut anyway' look in this pic
Post by: Miamipuck on April 07, 2022, 07:44:05 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 07, 2022, 09:17:38 AM
Is one of them wearing a Metallica shirt? An old school Metallica shirt it looks like.
DJ Montgomery
Post by: Miamipuck on April 09, 2022, 12:49:26 PM
DJ Montgomery
Thanks
Post by: casman02 on April 10, 2022, 07:45:50 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/totfug1qoss81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=3fa3a4959503411cbd084347a877a4b6ed71b858)
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 10, 2022, 10:09:02 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 11, 2022, 01:44:07 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on April 11, 2022, 02:11:19 PM
Post by: Johnny English on April 11, 2022, 03:06:04 PM
That picture puts into perspective Zachs size
Because you're so familiar with the size of his siblings?
Post by: Heismanberg on April 11, 2022, 03:23:13 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 26, 2022, 05:39:00 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 26, 2022, 06:21:09 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/ubqdiv/i_need_this_man_to_succeed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x
Whatever it was is gone now
Post by: bojanglesman on April 26, 2022, 07:30:12 AM
Whatever it was is gone nowHe was teeing off while his buddies were trying to distract him by talking about all the bitches John Smith fucked.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 26, 2022, 08:08:59 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 26, 2022, 01:39:06 PM
The disrespect 🤌
Post by: Gorilla on April 26, 2022, 01:57:13 PM
https://twitter.com/pff/status/1518998417304866817?s=21&t=0LbPR-QO_zEd4lSJbpGFjQ
The disrespect 🤌
Not so much "the disrespect" as it is "the easiest way to get twitter engagement and responses and clicks and links".
New York sports market and Jets fans are a very eager-to-dance monkey.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 26, 2022, 02:23:16 PM
Not so much "the disrespect" as it is "the easiest way to get twitter engagement and responses and clicks and links".
New York sports market and Jets fans are a very eager-to-dance monkey.
Tell that to this years Madden QB ratings!!!
Post by: Gorilla on April 26, 2022, 02:29:59 PM
Tell that to this years Madden QB ratings!!!
Haha for real.
Hey, we know Zach was statistically pure a$$ this year, and was bad even by rookie standards....except during the latter part of the season. I still would have excluded Mac in that foursome (since the question was ostensibly about future upside), but whatever.
As Jets fans, hope is a very powerful thing.
As in "I sure hope I didn't waste my money on this Sam Darnold jersey." ---me before 2020 season.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 26, 2022, 09:10:48 PM
https://twitter.com/RealTylerRiggs/status/1519002060317855744?t=smQsRcdKtJvH9XO263tDTg&s=19
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 26, 2022, 09:44:08 PM
Found it
https://twitter.com/RealTylerRiggs/status/1519002060317855744?t=smQsRcdKtJvH9XO263tDTg&s=19
This guy SOAKS!
Post by: Badger on April 26, 2022, 09:45:29 PM
Found itHaha, I originally thought one of his buddies said the ten bitches line.
https://twitter.com/RealTylerRiggs/status/1519002060317855744?t=smQsRcdKtJvH9XO263tDTg&s=19
Post by: bojanglesman on April 27, 2022, 05:57:31 AM
Haha, I originally thought one of his buddies said the ten bitches line.I thought they did.
Post by: Badger on May 07, 2022, 10:12:31 PM
https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1523011165915594752?t=k9mKvNN8ZH678X8Gfsd7Ag&s=19
Post by: Badger on May 13, 2022, 10:50:37 AM
Post by: reuben on May 13, 2022, 10:59:17 AM
https://twitter.com/ochocinco/status/1525127195953401857?t=H6CAy9eD6MWhV_lBaCHX-g&s=19
When did Ocho become a Jets fan? Out here rocking the we.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 13, 2022, 11:49:21 AM
When did Ocho become a Jets fan? Out here rocking the we.
He loves Zach Wilson
Post by: Badger on May 13, 2022, 01:43:18 PM
He loves Zach WilsonSo does Becton
https://twitter.com/BigTicket73/status/1525121668523380736?s=20&t=WPYWXJKo19afFXl6xKG-cg
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 15, 2022, 08:36:51 AM
Beef Castle
Post by: bojanglesman on May 15, 2022, 09:33:00 AM
https://twitter.com/jfowlerespn/status/1525809694819885056?s=21&t=4a9qGnqKPk3a9h-1WuNj7ANew name.... done.
Beef Castle
Post by: insanity on May 15, 2022, 11:54:04 AM
https://twitter.com/jfowlerespn/status/1525809694819885056?s=21&t=4a9qGnqKPk3a9h-1WuNj7AWhite castle beef god
Beef Castle
Post by: dcm1602 on May 15, 2022, 12:00:09 PM
I'd rather hear about Zach watching a excrement ton of film and working on his decision making, rather than trying to look like Tim Tebow (who I also remembered articles jerking him off when he was with us because of how much he bulked and was in the best shape of his life etc etc)
Post by: Gorilla on May 15, 2022, 02:25:30 PM
I'd rather hear about Zach watching a excrement ton of film
Good thing there's always been tons of quotes and articles about just that...unless you missed them while you were busy googling "cat vegan diet" and "obligate carnivores".
Post by: dcm1602 on May 15, 2022, 02:28:50 PM
Good thing there's always been tons of quotes and articles about just that...unless you missed them while you were busy googling "cat vegan diet" and "obligate carnivores".
Well maybe if Zach Wilson was on a cat diet he would be even beefier
Post by: Gorilla on May 15, 2022, 02:35:29 PM
Well maybe if Zach Wilson was on a cat diet he would be even beefier
A diet of just cats? Maybe so.
Post by: delavan on May 15, 2022, 08:51:44 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 16, 2022, 11:24:55 AM
Zach getting in shape is great and all, but his level of fitness was not his problem.
I'd rather hear about Zach watching a excrement ton of film and working on his decision making, rather than trying to look like Tim Tebow (who I also remembered articles jerking him off when he was with us because of how much he bulked and was in the best shape of his life etc etc)
I would imagine it is less to do with athleticism and more to do with durability. Probably doesn't want to miss time due to injury again.
Also, what Gorilla said.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on May 17, 2022, 06:31:52 AM
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZTdGjfGj9/?k=1
Post by: delavan on May 18, 2022, 03:45:31 PM
https://twitter.com/NYJets_Media/status/1526713445831278592
Post by: mj2sexay on May 18, 2022, 05:25:33 PM
Using the pause button to start/stop/start it's worth noting Zach's not-as-compact, slower release vs. #5 Mike White (I do however like Zach's more elevated release point better)
https://twitter.com/NYJets_Media/status/1526713445831278592
We need to see Zach take that next step, but it's amazing how last year the common point was that this team doesn't have a backup QB.
I'm extremely comfortable with Bert Flacco and White Mike in that room.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 18, 2022, 05:35:35 PM
We need to see Zach take that next step, but it's amazing how last year the common point was that this team doesn't have a backup QB.Well, we didn't have Joe Flacco entering last season, and JD panic-traded for Flacco midseason.
I'm extremely comfortable with Bert Flacco and White Mike in that room.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 24, 2022, 03:25:04 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 24, 2022, 03:40:07 PM
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1529187976219082752?s=20&t=A1u9rN1C4-mFh2kqsCmeoQ
Is Conor McDermott going?
Post by: Johnny English on May 24, 2022, 03:42:35 PM
Is Conor McDermott going?
Pass catching TE legend Conor McDermott, you mean?
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 24, 2022, 03:50:02 PM
Pass catching TE legend Conor McDermott, you mean?
Yes, former OT who converted to future HOF TE Conor McDermott.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 26, 2022, 07:26:01 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220526/f1c5650663b6a342a6df180a3157a039.jpg)
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 26, 2022, 08:21:14 AM
Haha, some dingus on Twitter did this.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220526/f1c5650663b6a342a6df180a3157a039.jpg)
I cannot look away. Not sure I want to.
Post by: Johnny English on May 26, 2022, 08:22:47 AM
Post by: Gorilla on May 26, 2022, 09:52:45 AM
Haha, some genius on Twitter did this.
fixed
Post by: Badger on June 01, 2022, 02:39:29 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on June 01, 2022, 03:16:05 PM
I'm sold, now how do we get Zach on board?
0% chance he can grow anything near that beard.
Post by: delavan on June 01, 2022, 03:53:28 PM
0% chance he can grow anything near that beard.
How about he gets a facial tattoo beard? Amazing what tattooists can do nowadays..
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Face_tattoo-2.jpg/339px-Face_tattoo-2.jpg)
Post by: dcm1602 on June 03, 2022, 03:14:42 PM
ZACH WILSON
QB, NEW YORK JETS
zw
Pro Football Network's Mike Kaye reports Zach Wilson has struggled with accuracy in Jets OTAs.
"I got a close look at Wilson on Wednesday during OTAs at the team’s facility, and I came away with a shoulder shrug of sorts," Kaye said. "Wilson got off to a rough start in team drills as his first four passes were as follows: a throw behind Corey Davis, a throw that hovered over everyone, a clear throwaway after being flushed out of the pocket, and another bad misfire." Kaye said Wilson later completed a few nice throws over the middle and heavily targeted second-year WR Elijah Moore. By any measurement, Wilson's rookie year accuracy was disastrous. No quarterback had a worse completion rate over expected and only Justin Fields had a worst adjusted completion rate, per Pro Football Focus. Wilson, who has reportedly bulked up for his sophomore season, will have few excuses in 2022 after the Jets upgraded their pass-catching group with Garrett Wilson and their offensive line with Laken Tomlinson. "Overall, the recipe is there for Wilson to make a major jump," Kaye said. "That said, I think he’s still a massive projection at this point, especially in June of Year 2."
Post by: bojanglesman on June 03, 2022, 03:27:04 PM
ZACH WILSON
QB, NEW YORK JETS
zw
Pro Football Network's Mike Kaye reports Zach Wilson has struggled with accuracy in Jets OTAs.
"I got a close look at Wilson on Wednesday during OTAs at the team’s facility, and I came away with a shoulder shrug of sorts," Kaye said. "Wilson got off to a rough start in team drills as his first four passes were as follows: a throw behind Corey Davis, a throw that hovered over everyone, a clear throwaway after being flushed out of the pocket, and another bad misfire." Kaye said Wilson later completed a few nice throws over the middle and heavily targeted second-year WR Elijah Moore. By any measurement, Wilson's rookie year accuracy was disastrous. No quarterback had a worse completion rate over expected and only Justin Fields had a worst adjusted completion rate, per Pro Football Focus. Wilson, who has reportedly bulked up for his sophomore season, will have few excuses in 2022 after the Jets upgraded their pass-catching group with Garrett Wilson and their offensive line with Laken Tomlinson. "Overall, the recipe is there for Wilson to make a major jump," Kaye said. "That said, I think he’s still a massive projection at this point, especially in June of Year 2."
Well now we have to cut him. Maybe we can sweet talk Darnold into coming back.
Post by: Heismanberg on June 03, 2022, 05:17:57 PM
The “source” himself
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 03, 2022, 06:12:19 PM
https://twitter.com/mike_e_kaye/status/1532848509862522883?s=21&t=ET1sqFgrhbGofqsjfkcpdg
The “source” himself
STOP DEFUSING MY SUICIDE CULT!1!1!1
Post by: Derek Smalls on June 04, 2022, 03:56:41 AM
Post by: insanity on June 04, 2022, 04:59:22 AM
This is dumb
Post by: Coach K on June 04, 2022, 08:09:13 AM
https://twitter.com/mike_e_kaye/status/1532848509862522883?s=21&t=ET1sqFgrhbGofqsjfkcpdgDefense is always ahead . No different than having one off practice session
The “source” himself
If this becomes a trend fine
But sounds like someone grasping for a story
Post by: Heismanberg on June 04, 2022, 10:00:34 AM
Until he proves he can play at the NFL level, he'll face these questions. Like Darnold, I hope he fixes it. I liked Wilson more coming out than I liked Darnold, but there were some questions about how he will translate. Like Darnold, he dealt with a bad supporting cast in Year 1. Unlike Darnold, he seems to have a competent roster and staff entering Year 2.
What questions?
The dude the wrote the article didn’t question Wilson’s accuracy.
Post by: AlioTheFool on June 04, 2022, 11:20:18 AM
I'm not crowning anyone ahead of time, but this might be the most excited I've been about a season since early-Rex
Post by: dcm1602 on June 04, 2022, 11:36:33 AM
He's proven he can be accurate. He will be fine.
This is dumb
Believing he can be accurate is one thing. Stating he's had accurate games is okay.
But his completion percentage was freaking atrocious last year
To say he's proven he can be accurate is silly
Post by: bojanglesman on June 04, 2022, 11:39:42 AM
Post by: insanity on June 04, 2022, 12:25:40 PM
Believing he can be accurate is one thing. Stating he's had accurate games is okay.He's proven he can be accurate.
But his completion percentage was freaking atrocious last year
To say he's proven he can be accurate is silly
He needs to improve his completion percentage.
These are two different things.
Post by: dcm1602 on June 04, 2022, 12:54:43 PM
He's proven he can be accurate.
He needs to improve his completion percentage.
These are two different things.
How has he proven it?
It's a bold statement
Post by: Heismanberg on June 04, 2022, 01:01:29 PM
How has he proven it?
It's a bold statement
He made a lot of great throws as a rookie. A lot of them were dropped too.
I dont think LaFleur did a very good job of getting him into a rhythm early in the season and the game was moving way too fast for him.
Once MLF settled in (Booth LaFleur) and Wilson came back from injury, they got some things figured out …with a very weak supporting cast.
Adding talent at tight end, receiver, and running back should help his completion percentage.
Post by: reuben on June 04, 2022, 01:03:16 PM
Post by: Johnny English on June 04, 2022, 01:48:13 PM
Intermittent accuracy is not accuracy. Similar to intermittent punctuality.
But I don't think it was intermittent. Maybe the stats will prove me a liar but my recollection is that it was two distinct halves of the season, one inaccurate and messy and disjointed as everyone tried to figure out what they were doing, Zach included, and one much improved with consistently acceptable QB play. Averaged over the whole season it makes for not a pretty picture, but it's not a true reflection of what we watched.
Post by: dcm1602 on June 04, 2022, 01:52:39 PM
He made a lot of great throws as a rookie. A lot of them were dropped too.
I dont think LaFleur did a very good job of getting him into a rhythm early in the season and the game was moving way too fast for him.
Once MLF settled in (Booth LaFleur) and Wilson came back from injury, they got some things figured out …with a very weak supporting cast.
Adding talent at tight end, receiver, and running back should help his completion percentage.
I'm not suggesting he's doomed, or a bust yet, or that he won't improve. He certainly looked better later in the season, and his cast was a major issue.
But after the excrement we've gone through with Sanchez and Darnold, I'm not ready to jerk off a young QB just because we invested an early pick in him. Some of those missed passes were because he didn't put the receiver in the best place to succeed. Sure you can argue they were catchable, but when you're among the league leaders in drops you can't blame it all on the wideoits.
Regardless this season should tell us a freak ton, as now he's got continuity and a fair amount of talent. But he hasn't prove anything yet, especially that he's "proven accurate"
Post by: dcm1602 on June 04, 2022, 01:57:02 PM
But I don't think it was intermittent. Maybe the stats will prove me a liar but my recollection is that it was two distinct halves of the season, one inaccurate and messy and disjointed as everyone tried to figure out what they were doing, Zach included, and one much improved with consistently acceptable QB play. Averaged over the whole season it makes for not a pretty picture, but it's not a true reflection of what we watched.
Which half was which?
Over the final 6 games of the season he had a 53% completion percentage
He did a phenomenal job at reducing the turnovers, but that doesn't mean a ton if you're only completing half of your passes
Post by: Johnny English on June 04, 2022, 01:59:12 PM
Which half was which?
Over the final 6 games of the season he had a 53% completion percentage
Did you watch the games, or just read the box scores?
Post by: dcm1602 on June 04, 2022, 02:01:37 PM
Did you watch the games, or just read the box scores?
Were talking about accuracy.
Sure we can all pretend we're PFF.
But at the end of the day if only 53% of passes are getting completed, I'm not calling a guy proven or consistently accurate.
He looked better sure, but he's still completely unproven
Post by: Heismanberg on June 04, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I'm not suggesting he's doomed, or a bust yet, or that he won't improve. He certainly looked better later in the season, and his cast was a major issue.
But after the excrement we've gone through with Sanchez and Darnold, I'm not ready to jerk off a young QB just because we invested an early pick in him. Some of those missed passes were because he didn't put the receiver in the best place to succeed. Sure you can argue they were catchable, but when you're among the league leaders in drops you can't blame it all on the wideoits.
Regardless this season should tell us a freak ton, as now he's got continuity and a fair amount of talent. But he hasn't prove anything yet, especially that he's "proven accurate"
Stop falling for clickbait article titles
Post by: dcm1602 on June 04, 2022, 02:12:21 PM
Stop falling for clickbait article titles
The article was rotoworld click bait excrement about one single practice.
This comment you quoted had nothing whatsoever to do with that.
I'm not calling Wilson doomed or screaming the sky is falling.
Post by: Heismanberg on June 04, 2022, 02:13:22 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on June 04, 2022, 02:45:34 PM
The only reason you are looking at boxscores is because of the title of that blurb
That's correct
It's also June and there's not a whole lot of football going on otherwise
Post by: Derek Smalls on June 04, 2022, 04:11:41 PM
Intermittent accuracy is not accuracy. Similar to intermittent punctuality.This. Yes, he's proven he CAN be accurate. But he hasn't proven that he IS accurate. Anyone can be accurate here and there. To Zach's credit, he had a number of really high level throws with pinpoint accuracy. But if you're going to be missing easy throws as often as he did last year, you can't say he's proven to be accurate yet.
Accuracy is about making all the throws accurately, not just picking and choosing his highlights. As a rookie, I'd rather him show the flashes and be inconsistent on the easy passes because you would think the easy passes are easily fixable. But until he actually improves his accuracy on those short passes, you can't say he's proven to be accurate.
Post by: bojanglesman on June 04, 2022, 04:23:05 PM
Post by: insanity on June 04, 2022, 08:55:48 PM
This. Yes, he's proven he CAN be accurate. But he hasn't proven that he IS accurate. Anyone can be accurate here and there. To Zach's credit, he had a number of really high level throws with pinpoint accuracy. But if you're going to be missing easy throws as often as he did last year, you can't say he's proven to be accurate yet.He 2nd half of the year he did not miss easy throws. He was on point
Accuracy is about making all the throws accurately, not just picking and choosing his highlights. As a rookie, I'd rather him show the flashes and be inconsistent on the easy passes because you would think the easy passes are easily fixable. But until he actually improves his accuracy on those short passes, you can't say he's proven to be accurate.
Post by: Heismanberg on June 08, 2022, 09:24:21 AM
second throw is dirty
Post by: reuben on June 08, 2022, 09:32:48 AM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1534533544374063104?s=20&t=mjzq7Fv6oieRVnXtf8R3eg
second throw is dirty
Shootin from the hip like Rich Gannon
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 08, 2022, 09:35:16 AM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1534533544374063104?s=20&t=mjzq7Fv6oieRVnXtf8R3eg
second throw is dirty
In shorts, doesn't matter, complete piece of excrement, Jets guaranteed to pick #1 for the next decade1!!
/Walder Kaye'd
Post by: Johnny English on June 08, 2022, 10:09:40 AM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1534533544374063104?s=20&t=mjzq7Fv6oieRVnXtf8R3eg
second throw is dirty
Sidearm throws offend me. I realise he has to practice them because there are times it will be his only option, but they have a far greater chance of going wrong for a variety of reasons and I hate seeing them. At least 50% of the time you see them used it would have been a better idea to just go full Brady, curl up in a ball and reset for another go.
Post by: Heismanberg on June 08, 2022, 12:17:22 PM
Sidearm throws offend me. I realise he has to practice them because there are times it will be his only option, but they have a far greater chance of going wrong for a variety of reasons and I hate seeing them. At least 50% of the time you see them used it would have been a better idea to just go full Brady, curl up in a ball and reset for another go.
He cooked the linebacker with it
Post by: Johnny English on June 08, 2022, 12:23:52 PM
He cooked the linebacker with it
Which does not change my point.
Post by: klaximilian on June 08, 2022, 05:20:59 PM
Which does not change my point.
Sidearm throws offend you. Sorry, but that was a good throw. Try not to be offended so easily.
Post by: Johnny English on June 08, 2022, 05:25:42 PM
Sidearm throws offend you. Sorry, but that was a good throw. Try not to be offended so easily.
We don't pay for enough bandwidth for me to list all the things that offend me.
Post by: Badger on June 09, 2022, 02:37:53 PM
Sidearm throws offend you. Sorry, but that was a good throw. Try not to be offended so easily.I'll be wearing pearls like Garrett Wilson every Sunday so I can clutch them for every sidearm throw.
Post by: Heismanberg on June 18, 2022, 07:05:48 PM
GOAT
Post by: Johnny English on June 18, 2022, 07:44:58 PM
Post by: MBGreen on June 18, 2022, 07:46:08 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on June 23, 2022, 05:45:30 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on June 23, 2022, 05:58:48 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 23, 2022, 06:01:01 PM
https://twitter.com/lombardihimself/status/1540093610066075648?s=21&t=wAaRmiUEEM31Nity7tfF_g
How thrilled are you going to be when he becomes best friends with Josh Allen?
Post by: Johnny English on June 23, 2022, 06:19:01 PM
How thrilled are you going to be when he becomes best friends with Josh Allen?
Didn't work out so well for the last guy who did that.
Post by: Heismanberg on June 23, 2022, 06:31:17 PM
How thrilled are you going to be when he becomes best friends with Josh Allen?
Zach doesn’t want to be remembered as the nice one
Post by: Andrew Ryan on July 10, 2022, 07:54:03 AM
They call him the milf hunter...
Post by: MBGreen on July 10, 2022, 08:36:45 AM
https://twitter.com/tezah__/status/1545992424199274496?s=21&t=keNy_H0wIyF1LV81_jmCKAMy QB
They call him the milf hunter...
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 10, 2022, 08:39:10 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on July 10, 2022, 10:30:49 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on July 10, 2022, 02:35:05 PM
you know who i'm talking about
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 10, 2022, 03:51:09 PM
Not what d sw0rdz was talking about, but nice.
Post by: Badger on July 10, 2022, 09:13:56 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on July 10, 2022, 09:54:58 PM
My first reaction was to assume it's bullshit but the general reaction to it seems pretty positive, so, whatever. It's producing some funny material.This.
Post by: Heismanberg on July 10, 2022, 10:08:29 PM
Post by: reuben on July 11, 2022, 02:36:07 PM
Damn, that's a winner.
Post by: Heismanberg on July 11, 2022, 07:24:51 PM
Post by: delavan on July 12, 2022, 08:31:33 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 13, 2022, 11:44:00 AM
Post by: Badger on July 13, 2022, 01:01:50 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220713/bfb8b5cc84115e0e44f7939fac622d98.jpg)
Post by: Derek Smalls on July 13, 2022, 01:22:56 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on July 13, 2022, 02:48:26 PM
Maybe Janet Gretzky is Zach's mom's best friend.
The ultimate power play.
Post by: Libero_2 on July 13, 2022, 06:18:08 PM
https://twitter.com/slamminsamswank/status/1546598911833387008?s=21&t=680ETHPiKMKS5rBlqcUKJw
Ok that’s pretty funny
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 14, 2022, 10:44:19 AM
Post by: Johnny English on July 14, 2022, 12:33:37 PM
Post by: MBGreen on July 14, 2022, 12:54:18 PM
We really, really need football to start
your top priority is to join Friars
Post by: Johnny English on July 14, 2022, 01:02:13 PM
your top priority is to join Friars
I spend quite enough time already staring at numbers on spreadsheets, if you want to pay me to do it in my spare time I'm open to offers but otherwise I'll pass.
Post by: MBGreen on July 14, 2022, 01:05:10 PM
I spend quite enough time already staring at numbers on spreadsheets, if you want to pay me to do it in my spare time I'm open to offers but otherwise I'll pass.
spreadsheets? wtf
you really don't know what's required eh
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 14, 2022, 01:29:30 PM
I spend quite enough time already staring at numbers on spreadsheets, if you want to pay me to do it in my spare time I'm open to offers but otherwise I'll pass.
Grand prize is lifetime supply of tailgate Tostitos
Post by: Johnny English on July 14, 2022, 02:11:27 PM
spreadsheets? wtf
you really don't know what's required eh
Stat nerd bullshit. I'll pass.
Post by: MBGreen on July 14, 2022, 02:19:35 PM
Stat nerd bullshit. I'll pass.
prrrt
Post by: delavan on July 14, 2022, 02:49:39 PM
We really, really need football to start
Afuckingmen
Post by: Badger on July 22, 2022, 01:57:48 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on July 25, 2022, 11:23:20 AM
https://twitter.com/Willpa11/status/1550513901661560832?t=3rZkEwIqyHz5b-uby2YLmg&s=19
Malik's going to be an absolute Madden stud in franchise this year if the person controlling him has any ability to make a pre-snap read or can run with the quarterback.
Post by: Gorilla on July 25, 2022, 02:03:55 PM
Malik's going to be an absolute Madden stud in franchise this year if the person controlling him has any ability to make a pre-snap read or can run with the quarterback.
Willis is a poor man's DeShone Kizer.
Post by: Heismanberg on July 26, 2022, 03:55:31 PM
Post by: delavan on July 26, 2022, 09:34:24 PM
https://www.orcool.shop/Rt3dw?name=apparel-classic-tshirt-lifestyle-front-131
Post by: Johnny English on July 26, 2022, 09:45:13 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 27, 2022, 08:28:57 AM
Weird that that's in GBP.
It's in USD for me. Maybe a region setting on your browser?
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 27, 2022, 01:02:49 PM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
1h
Zach Wilson: Mentally, I’ve never been in a better spot.
Weighs 217-218 pounds. A year ago, he was 205-207 at this time. #Jets
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 30, 2022, 06:58:10 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/wc5fhw/parked_at_training_camp_kinda_funny/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share (https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/wc5fhw/parked_at_training_camp_kinda_funny/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Post by: reuben on August 07, 2022, 02:08:49 PM
Post by: delavan on August 09, 2022, 10:27:56 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaigeSpiranac/status/1556766239707521025/photo/1
Post by: MBGreen on August 09, 2022, 10:33:51 AM
Zach, a MIRWLF or too over the hill?….
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaigeSpiranac/status/1556766239707521025/photo/1
Paige Spiranac is hawt
Post by: delavan on August 09, 2022, 10:46:12 AM
Paige Spiranac is hawtYup.
#potablebathwater.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 10, 2022, 01:52:27 PM
Would be fun if Zach is good.
Post by: MBGreen on August 10, 2022, 01:54:16 PM
https://twitter.com/MNeschis/status/1557394303575625729
Would be fun if Zach is good.
He is good, and probably fucked your mom too.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 10, 2022, 02:05:38 PM
He is good, and probably fucked your mom too.He is good when he shows us he's good. Been burned far too many times by far too many prospects. I believe Zach will be good. He needs to prove it.
Post by: dcm1602 on August 10, 2022, 02:37:00 PM
He is good when he shows us he's good. Been burned far too many times by far too many prospects. I believe Zach will be good. He needs to prove it.
If someone wants to be hopeful about Zach thats fine.
If someone thinks he has somehow proven that he's good, they need to be freaking drug tested
Post by: delavan on August 10, 2022, 04:25:41 PM
If someone thinks he has somehow proven that he's good, they need to be freaking drug testedRelax, urine good company - skoal!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Human_urine_sample_in_a_glass_-_20080606.jpg/320px-Human_urine_sample_in_a_glass_-_20080606.jpg)
Post by: delavan on August 12, 2022, 04:20:10 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on August 12, 2022, 10:00:40 PM
Saleh info on Zach from post game presser.
Basically wait till tomorrow for MRI. Initial tests seem to indicate ACL is intact. But Saleh seems to suggest he only cares what the mri has to say. MRI will happen sometime tomorrow
Post by: dcm1602 on August 12, 2022, 10:06:26 PM
https://twitter.com/boygreen25/status/1558286165094055936?s=21&t=CLBZj2wqZbMZ7jIyc-2PGA
Saleh info on Zach from post game presser.
Basically wait till tomorrow for MRI. Initial tests seem to indicate ACL is intact. But Saleh seems to suggest he only cares what the mri has to say. MRI will happen sometime tomorrow
This is purely just reading between the lines. But the impression it gives me that the ACL is intact means it probably would be an MCL/LCL/PCL injury or something else.
No freaking idea what the timetable for any of that shot would be
Post by: Johnny English on August 12, 2022, 10:09:07 PM
This is purely just reading between the lines. But the impression it gives me that the ACL is intact means it probably would be an MCL/LCL/PCL injury or something else.
No freaking idea what the timetable for any of that shot would be
https://twitter.com/diannaespn/status/1558286198635896832
Post by: Libero_2 on August 12, 2022, 10:10:02 PM
This is purely just reading between the lines. But the impression it gives me that the ACL is intact means it probably would be an MCL/LCL/PCL injury or something else.
No freaking idea what the timetable for any of that shot would be
Diana Russini (ESPN?) suggests jets believe it’s a PCL and if the MRI confirms that, Zach could theoretically be ready for the opener albeit in a brace.
That seems far to much to be hopeful for. But it’s a lot better than thinking the seasons over and we are back in QB turmoil again before August 13th
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 12, 2022, 10:14:34 PM
I remember when Antonio Cromartie was dead. Don't think he missed a game.
"Supposed to be intact" also is relatively vague
Post by: dcm1602 on August 12, 2022, 10:15:17 PM
https://twitter.com/diannaespn/status/1558286198635896832
From one of the comments
Dr. Mitch Abrams
@MitchAbramsPsyD
·
10m
Replying to
@diannaESPN
Thanks for the report. If PCL, dodged a bullet. Still will miss a couple of weeks & return with a brace. Like Becton's injury, the MRI will tell if Joe Douglas grabs for the phone or not. ACL, they grab Jimmy G (probably traded for D-line depth). If PCL, hello Flacco.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 12, 2022, 10:20:33 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 12, 2022, 10:25:48 PM
Optimism
Post by: dcm1602 on August 12, 2022, 10:39:07 PM
Not that the next few weeks are much better, but if he was gonna miss a few weeks that's not a bad stretch to miss in a non contending year.
The bye is pretty late so I'd imagine Zach is back well before that
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 12, 2022, 11:23:15 PM
Would be a bad look for David Chao, though he already is shady enough.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 13, 2022, 12:03:23 AM
This is such pleasant news. There is hope again. And now we are guaranteed Zach can't get hurt again this preseason.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 13, 2022, 12:29:42 AM
That means he gets back by Week 2 or 3.
We have to beat Cleveland, no matter who our QB is.
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 13, 2022, 01:15:09 AM
"Supposed to be intact" also is relatively vague
this is likely/largely based off of initial physical exam maneuvers to assess the stability of the ACL (e.g. anterior drawer test) and if those checked out okay, then at the least it's a positive we can take for now. of course the MRI will definitively illuminate it all for us to see, so we wait.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 13, 2022, 01:22:55 AM
Post by: reuben on August 13, 2022, 01:28:15 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 13, 2022, 01:42:14 AM
i saw him walking gingerly then throw himself down after the play, and then they showed the replay of the non-contact knee buckle preceding it right before. i automatically resigned to it being an ACL injury and i actually left where i was watching the game after that, i was no longer interested lmao. i was disgusted, the team is cursed.
even if it's not an ACL, you can argue the team is still cursed. like some of you have already mentioned, this is the brightest outlook we've had for a team in years. we lose our young OT this past week. we come out tonight, and zach's in for, what, 3 plays? with one of those being a bad interception and the other a feared season-ending injury. now we hope he can rehab from something less serious like a PCL injury and at the same time improve/get better from how poorly he looked tonight (acknowledging it was an extremely small sample size). we can say every team goes through it's downs but i honestly don't think every team goes through excrement like this. that's not normal
Post by: delavan on August 13, 2022, 08:55:32 AM
Diana Russini (ESPN) despite the schnozzole is a guidette POA
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/personality-dianna-russini-attends-the-espn-magazin-body-news-photo/843078446
Post by: casman02 on August 13, 2022, 10:06:53 AM
Jeff Howe
@jeffphowe
·
11m
Jets QB Zach Wilson suffered a bone bruise last night, per source. The ligaments are in good shape. More tests incoming on a potential meniscus injury to determine a timeline.
@TheAthletic
Post by: MBGreen on August 13, 2022, 10:09:07 AM
Good newsPraise Allah
Jeff Howe
@jeffphowe
·
11m
Jets QB Zach Wilson suffered a bone bruise last night, per source. The ligaments are in good shape. More tests incoming on a potential meniscus injury to determine a timeline.
@TheAthletic
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 13, 2022, 10:10:32 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on August 13, 2022, 10:10:51 AM
That's karma for banging his Mom's best friend, wrong bone, but still.
Post by: MBGreen on August 13, 2022, 10:12:55 AM
Serious Question: How do you suffer a bone bruise with no contact to the knee?Mightve been how he landed on the turf
Post by: MBGreen on August 13, 2022, 10:25:31 AM
Thank god
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 13, 2022, 10:33:27 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 13, 2022, 10:35:44 AM
Post by: MBGreen on August 13, 2022, 10:36:31 AM
White Mike opener.Lol no
Post by: Johnny English on August 13, 2022, 10:41:12 AM
Post by: insanity on August 13, 2022, 10:41:42 AM
Lol noBut its in Baltimore. It only makes sense
Post by: Gorilla on August 13, 2022, 10:48:23 AM
Start Flacco Week 1 for revenge game vs Balt and bring Zach back in week 2
I concur.
Hopefully by that time Zach grows up a bit and is willing to slide or go out of bounds instead of playing Superman in a goofy-derriere preseason game.
Post by: AlioTheFool on August 13, 2022, 11:09:08 AM
This news literally made my day.
Post by: Jumbo on August 13, 2022, 11:26:32 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 13, 2022, 12:35:54 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 13, 2022, 01:40:38 PM
Hopefully by that time Zach grows up a bit and is willing to slide or go out of bounds instead of playing Superman in a goofy-derriere preseason game.
i'm looking at it as kind of a blessing in disguise. zach will undoubtedly have attempted a similar cut during the preseason, and who knows what would have happened then.
if it's to happen i'd rather it happen now, we take care of it, and hopefully the knee is stable moving forward
Post by: Heismanberg on August 13, 2022, 02:20:24 PM
But this was a non-contact injury. It's just unlucky.
Post by: Johnny English on August 13, 2022, 02:32:38 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 13, 2022, 02:41:41 PM
I don't really get the go out of bounds stuff. Would I like him to slide and protect himself, sure...Exactly. If he got hurt taking a hit, the criticism would be deserved. But he could literally get hurt cutting like that at any point in a game or practice.
But this was a non-contact injury. It's just unlucky.
Don't get me wrong, if he just wants to slide every time in pre-season, that is probably the smartest. But he would make that move in a real game and he avoided getting hit.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 13, 2022, 03:07:39 PM
I know the Judon late hit was the final blow but I remember Van Noy doing some bullshit near the sideline.
Anything can happen. He probably didn’t need to play that series at all, to be honest.
Post by: Libero_2 on August 13, 2022, 03:26:28 PM
I’m curious if he just got unlucky, or if he now has a “weakness” (for lack of a better term) in that right pcl?
Post by: Heismanberg on August 13, 2022, 04:45:50 PM
If memory serves the cut he made last night was nearly identical to one he made on that run against the Jags wasn’t it? It could literally have happened at any time.
I’m curious if he just got unlucky, or if he now has a “weakness” (for lack of a better term) in that right pcl?
He didn't re-injure the PCL.
Post by: delavan on August 14, 2022, 05:51:48 AM
Remember last year he ran 52 yards for a TD vs. Jacksonville after faking "going out of bounds" midway during his run.
Post by: dcm1602 on August 14, 2022, 07:35:40 AM
It was a fluke injury - thank goodness he didn't blow out his ACL.
Remember last year he ran 52 yards for a TD vs. Jacksonville after faking "going out of bounds" midway during his run.
Jacksonville also was the worst team in the league in back to back years
Post by: MBGreen on August 14, 2022, 09:47:17 AM
Jacksonville also was the worst team in the league in back to back yearsYou just enjoy pissing on everything eh
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 14, 2022, 09:53:25 AM
Jacksonville also was the worst team in the league in back to back yearsDid not know that, thanks for sharing.
Post by: delavan on August 14, 2022, 11:03:38 AM
Jacksonville also was the worst team in the league in back to back yearsPicayune? Ok, I’ll play.
In 2021, Zach Wilson ran 52 yards for a touchdown against the 20th ranked defense, i.e. there were 12 defenses ranked ‘worse’
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?group=D&cat=T
https://youtu.be/eWSIXl36-fM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 14, 2022, 12:01:24 PM
Jacksonville also was the worst team in the league in back to back years
No freaking way! Really?
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 14, 2022, 12:16:15 PM
No freaking way! Really?I'm thrilled to find out somebody was worse than the Jets.
Post by: Johnny English on August 14, 2022, 12:19:29 PM
I'm thrilled to find out somebody was worse than the Jets.
I was wondering why we didn't get the first pick in the draft. I'm glad someone was finally able to clear things up for me.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 14, 2022, 01:12:26 PM
I was wondering why we didn't get the first pick in the draft. I'm glad someone was finally able to clear things up for me.Imagine being worse than the Adam Gase Jets.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 14, 2022, 01:36:15 PM
Post by: steves850 on August 14, 2022, 01:41:34 PM
Zach's having surgery on Tuesday
I will sacrifice a virgin and a Dolphins fan to the Football Gods.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 14, 2022, 02:40:37 PM
I will sacrifice a virgin and a Dolphins fan to the Football Gods.
So two Dolphins fans?
Post by: Libero_2 on August 14, 2022, 04:22:55 PM
I will sacrifice a virgin and a Dolphins fan to the Football Gods.
Isn't that the same thing?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 16, 2022, 09:20:26 AM
Post by: delavan on August 16, 2022, 12:18:09 PM
https://drelattrache.com/biography
ZW appears to be in good hands in L.A.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Pretty_young_woman_in_%27naughty_nurse%27_uniform_and_sandals_03.jpg/178px-Pretty_young_woman_in_%27naughty_nurse%27_uniform_and_sandals_03.jpg)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Cute_Piglet.jpg/160px-Cute_Piglet.jpg)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Pretty_young_woman_in_%27naughty_nurse%27_uniform_and_sandals_01.jpg/178px-Pretty_young_woman_in_%27naughty_nurse%27_uniform_and_sandals_01.jpg)
You're up big boy
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Joe_Flacco_training_camp.jpg/171px-Joe_Flacco_training_camp.jpg)
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 16, 2022, 02:14:18 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 16, 2022, 02:17:14 PM
Surgery went well. Season back on.
Expected back in 2-4 weeks. Dr. Neal ElAttrache is the early frontrunner for team MVP.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 16, 2022, 02:25:42 PM
Post by: casman02 on August 16, 2022, 03:26:39 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 16, 2022, 03:49:22 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on August 16, 2022, 08:16:34 PM
So I assume Week 3 is the most logical target for a return? Let him start at home against a worse defense than Cincinnati.
4 weeks from today is Sept 13. So I’d wager he cautiously misses week one, and has a full week of prep for week 2.
Post by: reuben on August 16, 2022, 08:47:25 PM
Should we sit Flacco again?
Without question. He's a veteran who's been here for more than a year in the same system with most of the same personnel. Losing Zach Wilson for the opener is rotten luck, but losing your top two quarterbacks in preseason games would just be organizational malpractice in our situation.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 16, 2022, 09:24:56 PM
4 weeks from today is Sept 13. So I’d wager he cautiously misses week one, and has a full week of prep for week 2.Week 2 and Week 3 seem like the most likely options. Week 2 fits the timeline, but we saw last year that they gave Wilson another week to make sure he was healthy. Wouldn't surprise me again.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 18, 2022, 11:40:19 AM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
·
5m
Robert Saleh on who will play QB in Week 1: “If Zach is ready to go, he’ll be the starter. If he’s not, Joe will.” #Jets
https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt/status/1560304353679908864?s=20&t=DQIZi4-HXy4xg-5sHS4Tyw (https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt/status/1560304353679908864?s=20&t=DQIZi4-HXy4xg-5sHS4Tyw)
Post by: dcm1602 on August 20, 2022, 04:07:20 AM
There's reports that Flacco has been on fire and absolutely lighting excrement up in camp (it's freaking camp, who cares)
Let's say Flacco starts at least the first 2 games because of Wilson not being healthy enough and is absolutely freaking dominant.
Is there any scenario where you say hey let's ride the hot hand and let him keep starting as long as he performs?
Obviously we drafted Wilson to be a starter here, but is there any scenario where Flacco starts longer than he needs to?
Post by: MexJetinBcn on August 20, 2022, 04:55:27 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on August 20, 2022, 06:49:00 AM
Secondly, Saleh has already said it’s Zach’s job the minutes he’s healthy and ready to play. What is the goal of this franchise and regime? To win 8 games this year? Or to win a Super Bowl in the long run? This team isn’t good enough to win a ring right now. Flacco winning us one or two more games this year because his experience allows him to either not make a bad throw or see a specific defensive weakness in a “swing game” that could go either way will not help us win that ring. Zach has to be on the field and getting the experience to be able to do that for himself, so that next year and the year after when we are ready to compete for it all, we have a QB who has progressed enough to carry us through. Zach cannot become a superstar QB by sitting. He needs to get on the field and learn with the supports around him.
Tldr; unless Flacco actually is Aaron Rodgers and can carry us all the way, or Zach is too hurt to play, Zach needs to be on the field so he can work through his issues and become the best player he can be
Post by: dcm1602 on August 20, 2022, 07:38:48 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on August 20, 2022, 10:02:20 AM
I'd guess the bigger concern too would be wanting to give Zach a Wilson as many reps as possible, in the event the Jets have a top 2 or 3 pick next year and have to make difficult decisions
We won’t be picking that high again. If we are we are starting over and we can’t count on Zach in 23 anyways, either because of atrocious play or injury or more likely both
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 21, 2022, 09:11:45 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 21, 2022, 03:46:16 PM
If Flacco is playing amazing, you can always say Zach needs another week to recover. If Flacco is really good for 4 weeks or so and we are 4-0, then we have a discussion. Thst is unlikely to happen.
we are the NYJ, we never have problems like 'we have too many playable quarterbacks right now and don't know which one to pick to play' lol
Post by: delavan on August 21, 2022, 05:22:47 PM
we are the NYJ, we never have problems like 'we have too many playable quarterbacks right now and don't know which one to pick to play' lolJet trivia: in 1965, the year the Jets drafted Joe Namath (who finished 11th in the Heisman Trophy voting) the Jets drafted Heisman Trophy winner John Huarte (QB, ND) in the 2nd round. By the next year they had traded Huarte to the Patriots.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 30, 2022, 02:12:39 PM
Post by: MBGreen on August 30, 2022, 02:26:52 PM
Wilson's walking around without any noticeable limp, just a sleeve on his right leg.
all that MILF discharge made him a quick healer.
Post by: MBGreen on September 07, 2022, 10:47:38 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 07, 2022, 10:57:40 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 07, 2022, 11:01:16 AM
Frustrating when your young QB misses multiple games in back-to-back seasons. It's a big year for Zach. The rest of the team has a lot of young talent in place. I'm not sure we can afford to go into 2023 with the same quarterback questions we have going into 2022.
He got hurt in the preseason on a fluke play. It's on the coaches for having him out there, in my opinion.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 07, 2022, 11:06:50 AM
He got hurt in the preseason on a fluke play. It's on the coaches for having him out there, in my opinion.
So you would have had him sit through the entire preseason.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 07, 2022, 11:22:58 AM
So you would have had him sit through the entire preseason.
I would've had him play a series or two in the final preseason game. He didn't need to play in the first or second.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 07, 2022, 11:28:59 AM
That's not on the coaches. It's not on anyone. But Zach needs to stay healthy and perform better, or we will have some tough decisions in 2023.
Post by: Jumbo on September 07, 2022, 11:35:43 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 07, 2022, 11:42:54 AM
If we're so scared of Zach getting hurt that we're blaming coaches for playing him 2 series in the preseason, we have bigger issues.
That's not on the coaches. It's not on anyone. But Zach needs to stay healthy and perform better, or we will have some tough decisions in 2023.
If anything it's on Zach for not going out of bounds but this injury could have easily happened at any time. In a game, practice, or otherwise.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 07, 2022, 11:43:29 AM
If we're so scared of Zach getting hurt that we're blaming coaches for playing him 2 series in the preseason, we have bigger issues.
That's not on the coaches. It's not on anyone. But Zach needs to stay healthy and perform better, or we will have some tough decisions in 2023.
We're not drafting a QB in 2023
Zach / Saleh / JD are tied together and will be here for the remainder of Zach's rookie deal. If he sucks, then they decline the 5th year option and blow the whole thing up
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 07, 2022, 11:54:27 AM
We're not drafting a QB in 2023Zach doesn't get 4 years of sucking.
Zach / Saleh / JD are tied together and will be here for the remainder of Zach's rookie deal. If he sucks, then they decline the 5th year option and blow the whole thing up
I think 2.5 years is reasonable. He got last year. He gets this year. If we go into next year and Zach is still a bottom 5 QB in the NFL, we will have some decisions to make. Maybe we take a mid-round QB as insurance. Maybe we upgrade Flacco with a more viable backup QB.
The nuclear option of taking a new 1st-round QB only comes into play if Zach is atrocious, we pick extremely high and the QB class looks extremely strong. That's basically what happened with Darnold, though that was after 3 seasons.
Obviously, I hope none of that comes true. But it's not good when your 2nd-year QB who struggled as a rookie is missing at least 3 games.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 07, 2022, 11:57:02 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 07, 2022, 01:23:25 PM
Post by: reuben on September 07, 2022, 01:33:18 PM
We're not drafting a QB in 2023
Not sure how you can commit to that before Zach's taken a snap in 2022. He doesn't need to be a playoff quarterback this season, but there are definitely improvements we need to see after an overall dogshit first season. If we find ourselves at the top of the draft next year, it's probably because he hasn't and likely can't make those improvements.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 07, 2022, 01:58:53 PM
Not sure how you can commit to that before Zach's taken a snap in 2022. He doesn't need to be a playoff quarterback this season, but there are definitely improvements we need to see after an overall dogshit first season. If we find ourselves at the top of the draft next year, it's probably because he hasn't and likely can't make those improvements.
If we're going QB in 2023, we are backing up the truck while also pulling the Ditka for Lamar Jackson
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 07, 2022, 04:46:18 PM
This leads me to believe that
1) Saleh’s “Wilson might start this week” was gamesmanship
2) Saleh is bad at gamesmanship.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 07, 2022, 04:57:42 PM
https://twitter.com/richcimini/status/1567606627468992513?s=21&t=abMv7rxcuhin-ORNK_lbWA (https://twitter.com/richcimini/status/1567606627468992513?s=21&t=abMv7rxcuhin-ORNK_lbWA)Seems like this is the most logical conclusion. Especially considering the way he brought it up today was basically him saying "I'm sick of talking about this, here's the truth."
This leads me to believe that
1) Saleh’s “Wilson might start this week” was gamesmanship
2) Saleh is bad at gamesmanship.
Just seems bad to try to get the fans' hopes up, and then immediately dash them.
Post by: Johnny English on September 07, 2022, 05:01:29 PM
Seems like this is the most logical conclusion. Especially considering the way he brought it up today was basically him saying "I'm sick of talking about this, here's the truth."
Just seems bad to try to get the fans' hopes up, and then immediately dash them.
TBH, my hopes for week 1 are not especially lower with Flacco under center than they would be with Wilson. I want Zach to succeed and I hope and believe he will, but I have yet to see much evidence to support it. At the moment I am going on largely blind faith.
Wilson could pull a performance out of his derriere on Sunday by virtue of his talent suddenly coming out. Flacco could pull a performance out of his derriere on Sunday by virtue of the fact that he's done it many times before. I don't think either differs wildly in likelihood.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 07, 2022, 05:05:50 PM
TBH, my hopes for week 1 are not especially lower with Flacco under center than they would be with Wilson. I want Zach to succeed and I hope and believe he will, but I have yet to see much evidence to support it. At the moment I am going on largely blind faith.2022 Joe Flacco is a better quarterback than 2021 Zach Wilson. The hope was that 2022 Zach Wilson would take a big step forward towards becoming our QB of the future and present.
Wilson could pull a performance out of his derriere on Sunday by virtue of his talent suddenly coming out. Flacco could pull a performance out of his derriere on Sunday by virtue of the fact that he's done it many times before. I don't think either differs wildly in likelihood.
With Wilson, you have a guy who is a good athlete with a really big arm who works his derriere off and seems very smart. Those are great traits to bet on. But the numbers last season were simply abysmal. Hopefully, with a better supporting cast and a year under his belt, he can be better. But he also needs to stay healthy, and he's been unable to do that through 2 years (and he had injuries in college).
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 07, 2022, 05:12:41 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 07, 2022, 05:50:36 PM
With Wilson, you have a guy
I read this in Cris Collinsworth's voice and the rest was lost to me.
Post by: delavan on September 07, 2022, 06:19:15 PM
If we're going QB in 2023, we are backing up the truck while also pulling the Ditka for Lamar JacksonToo much Harbaugh - Jax bromance.
Jets ignore the (already) two INT game vs. the 'other' Ga. team and grab Spencer "dog-faced boy" Rattler thinking theiy're getting Mahomes 2.0 arm talent on the cheap
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 07, 2022, 11:00:42 PM
if he has a poor year, i don't think we give him year 3 to show us if he has a shot to make it in this league. with the level of talent we now have on both sides of the ball, i just don't think we'd even want to wait another year with QB being an unknown. if he sucks this year, i can see us making a move for a steady/game ready QB to take over the ship like jimmy g, or make a big splash move for 'the guy' at QB like lamar
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 08, 2022, 11:09:08 AM
Biggest thing I want to see him clean up are the short passes that he was inaccurate on last season. That should be an easy fix and I would be worried if it becomes a trend.
Post by: reuben on September 08, 2022, 12:00:59 PM
Biggest thing I want to see him clean up are the short passes that he was inaccurate on last season. That should be an easy fix and I would be worried if it becomes a trend.
Yes. It's not a high bar to clear and it's likely he'll clear it. But it's not impossible that he won't and not inconceivable that we might want to move on if he doesn't.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 08, 2022, 01:17:27 PM
Most likely if he has a bad year, you bring in a stopgap vet to be the backup or spend a midround pick and hope you get lucky, then take the big QB swing in 2024.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 08, 2022, 01:32:18 PM
Most likely if he has a bad year, you bring in a stopgap vet
Jimmy G
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 08, 2022, 04:17:54 PM
Jimmy GExactly. Ideally, you don't want Zach in a potential QB controversy, but if Wilson doesn't take a step forward, it would be negligence to roll with Joe Flacco and Mike White as the backup plan. Garoppolo is the perfect guy, just like he would have been the perfect guy if Wilson had torn his ACL.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 08, 2022, 04:43:08 PM
Post by: steves850 on September 14, 2022, 11:44:15 AM
For what it's worth..
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 14, 2022, 12:00:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/j47qE96.png)
For what it's worth..
Got to make sure he doesn't injure his throwing shoulder putting on pads
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 14, 2022, 12:23:09 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2022, 12:54:14 PM
This would be the time I would get excited about him coming back in Week 3 if he hadn't already been ruled out.
We'll see. That could just have been the coaching and training staff being too cautious early on.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 14, 2022, 01:14:26 PM
We'll see. That could just have been the coaching and training staff being too cautious early on.
Maybe they wanted to be cautious but then Saleh started worrying about the locker room if the defense comes out like they did Sunday and the offense loses the game again.
Post by: Johnny English on September 21, 2022, 12:23:00 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 21, 2022, 12:58:14 PM
https://twitter.com/Al_Iannazzone/status/1572622244752375808
good
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 21, 2022, 01:26:23 PM
Post by: Badger on September 21, 2022, 01:50:33 PM
Seems like Wilson is only at 102% and he needs to be 110% to play.He needs to learn all 3 WR positions first.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2022, 07:32:30 AM
Let's go
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 28, 2022, 10:42:49 AM
Quote
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
32s
#Jets coach Robert Saleh announces that QB Zach Wilson has been medically cleared and will start Sunday if there are no setbacks.
Zach is back
Post by: MBGreen on September 28, 2022, 10:48:03 AM
Zach is back
time to let Zach cook.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2022, 10:59:46 AM
I think we all would have taken 1-2 without Zach Wilson. It's been uglier than that, but a month ago, we all talked about how the supporting cast gave Zach no excuses. That's not totally the case anymore with the OT issues. But he has receivers to throw to. Tarik Black ain't walking through that door.
Time for our franchise QB to turn into our franchise QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2022, 11:25:06 AM
Let's ride.
I think we all would have taken 1-2 without Zach Wilson. It's been uglier than that, but a month ago, we all talked about how the supporting cast gave Zach no excuses. That's not totally the case anymore with the OT issues. But he has receivers to throw to. Tarik Black ain't walking through that door.
Time for our franchise QB to turn into our franchise QB.
Wilson has two potential excuses from the jump:
1. Offensive Tackle
2. Mike LaFleur
MLF has no excuses
Post by: insanity on October 01, 2022, 08:13:30 AM
That defense and o line is looking really good though
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2022, 04:40:26 PM
We definitely need to be patient with him this week. None of the was from last year are really playing well. I just watched the jags game from last week and although Lawrence put up a gaudy stat line the play didn't match. Most of his yards came after the catch. He played well, but not pro bowl caliber or anything.There is patience, especially right away, but we also need him to show he is the answer by the end of the season. Because if he doesn't play well, we will be picking high in the draft and have decisions to make.
That defense and o line is looking really good though
That's one reason why the idea some floated of sitting him another week is absurd. We need to see Zach play.
Post by: Jumbo on October 01, 2022, 08:09:00 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 03, 2022, 12:17:25 PM
The positive spin is that he played his best down the stretch. Chalk up the first 3 quarters to some rust from the injury, and then in the 4th, he got it going.
The negative spin is that the accuracy and decision-making issues carried over this week.
Zach's completion percentage over expectation was -13.2% from NFL Next Gen Stats. That's even worse than Zach was last year, when he was worst in the NFL (-10.3%). He missed a bunch of short throws, and sometimes pretty badly. He also missed a possible deep touchdown to Breece Hall by underthrowing him by a ton after not setting his feet.
But his athleticism and arm talent still pop on the field, and obviously his 4th-quarter play was quite good. If the negatives get covered up with more experience, he can be great. People tried to make it seem like Derek Carr was a fair comparison for his upside. I disagree. His upside is elite if he puts it all together, even if that isn't the most likely outcome.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 03, 2022, 12:24:49 PM
*Offer not available during in-game commentary
Post by: Heismanberg on October 03, 2022, 12:40:22 PM
The motion swing play that we ran to Elijah Moore is a great play for Moore/Carter/Hall/Berrios/Wilson. Just get them the ball in space so the offensive line can't mess the play up before it starts.
The miss on the screen to Garrett Wilson was a timing thing. Wilson rushed the throw. He's throwing to a spot there and didn't let the blocks set up or the receiver get to his mark. That's just rustiness.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 04, 2022, 12:39:51 PM
https://twitter.com/nyporchsport/status/1577333565154631686?t=XjMKW8EfeSWMHp1L12E50A&s=19 (https://twitter.com/nyporchsport/status/1577333565154631686?t=XjMKW8EfeSWMHp1L12E50A&s=19)
(Yes, I know it's a joke. It made me laugh, that's why I'm posting it.)
Post by: Badger on October 05, 2022, 06:45:46 AM
Zach Wilson’s play in the fourth quarter is good reason for the Jets to feel encouraged about his progress. And there was really nothing spectacular about the way he played—it was more his ability to trust the offense, the people around him, make the routine play, and learn in-game that put the 23-year-old in position to lead an 11-play, 81-yard drive, then a 10-play, 65-yard drive to turn a 20–10 deficit into a 24–20 win over the Steelers for New York.
We’ve got, as Robert Saleh would say, receipts on it, too.
The first one comes in how Wilson banked information over the course of the afternoon in Pittsburgh. On the Jets’ final offensive snap of the third quarter, a third-and-10, Wilson passed up a deep crosser to Garrett Wilson, because he saw safety Minkah Fitzpatrick as a lurker, playing the middle of the field. What he realized, though, in the aftermath, was Fitzpatrick was spying him, not playing his receiver. So three snaps later, on a third-and-6 in the fourth quarter, Zach Wilson saw a similar look, ID’d Fitzpatrick as watching him and not Garrett Wilson, waited for Garrett to clear behind him, then hit him for a 35-yard gain.
Four plays after that, Zach Wilson saw that as a result of the big play to Garrett Wilson, Fitzpatrick was cheating over to him, and ripped one into the space it created for Corey Davis to set up a 22-yard gain to convert fourth-and-7. Four plays later, the Jets scored.
And then, on the next drive, the game-winner, Wilson made a big play by doing something small—standing in the pocket, keeping his eyes in the right spot, and trusting that his fundamentals would follow from there. On this one, a first-and-20, it took him to a checkdown to running back Michael Carter. He put the ball right on Carter, so the back could chew up 11 yards and give the Jets a much more manageable down and distance to work with. (Earlier in the game, Wilson actually overcomplicated such a play by trying to look off a defender, and missed Breece Hall on an easy swing pass).
In the end, these are small pieces of progress. But really, that’s been the theme of Wilson’s offseason. The coaches have wanted to simplify the game for him, get him worrying about fewer things out there. And that it’s manifesting in his play his first time out in 2022 would qualify as awfully good sign.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 06, 2022, 12:11:29 PM
Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yYeHScO_e0
Kurt Warner says MLF sucks at play calling
Post by: Heismanberg on October 06, 2022, 12:16:58 PM
Kurt Warner says MLF sucks at play calling
I sent a clip of Orlovsky/Spears/Clark/Kimes discussing the shotgun to some of the guys this morning. LaFleur running so much shotgun isn't helping our run game or our quarterback.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 06, 2022, 12:22:59 PM
Obviously, we want Wilson to make the layup throw on the hitch but even if it's complete. it's a negative play due to designed pick by the wideout.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 06, 2022, 12:26:11 PM
That's a great call and a bad miss by the QB.
It's not all on MLF, but he doesn't do a lot to protect the QB or get him into a rhythm.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 06, 2022, 12:30:42 PM
The swing/wheel to Breece is a great play that's worked for us previously. Wilson has to clean up his mechanics on certain layups.Thanks for sharing this link. I love watching people break down the film and hearing different opinions. Both Kurt Warner and J.T. O'Sullivan have released Wilson breakdowns this week (along with a bunch of amateur film guys).
That's a great call and a bad miss by the QB.
It's not all on MLF, but he doesn't do a lot to protect the QB or get him into a rhythm.
That is the most frustrating thing about Wilson. He misses badly on too many layup passes. The good news is that is a much easier fix than a lot of other potential issues young QBs can have. However, he still has to fix it.
I love how LaFleur has been using Breece on those wheel routes. That will get us a long touchdown at some point this season. Nearly happened last week.
Post by: reuben on October 06, 2022, 01:09:56 PM
This is something I thought during the play. Moore half-asses his route big time and his man peels off and gets the pick. It's still not a good throw, but you can't quit on a route like that.
I've seen Garrett Wilson do something similar on some plays when the ball isn't headed his direction. There's got to be more discipline.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 06, 2022, 01:17:28 PM
https://youtu.be/9vd0uxWNVJM?t=880 (https://youtu.be/9vd0uxWNVJM?t=880)
This is something I thought during the play. Moore half-asses his route big time and his man peels off and gets the pick. It's still not a good throw, but you can't quit on a route like that.
I've seen Garrett Wilson do something similar on some plays when the ball isn't headed his direction. There's got to be more discipline.
Yeah, that was a terrible play design. I said that during the game. I know everyone was screaming for him to throw it to GW on the crosser, but the field is cut in half there and Wilson isn't reading that side of the field.
Moore is largely responsible for that pick because he didn't sprint his man out of the play. I don't like a deep crosser running towards a clear there though. Tricky read.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 06, 2022, 01:32:13 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 06, 2022, 01:37:04 PM
They rotate our receivers plenty, too, so there shouldn't be much of an excuse to not run routes. Jeff Smith rotates in the offense too much for the top 3 receivers not to hustle.
Moore's situation is one to watch. He seems to be getting frustrated with his lack of targets in the offense. From everything we've heard about him, he's a high character player. It's frustrating to see him whining on Twitter and phoning it in on certain plays.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 06, 2022, 02:14:55 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 06, 2022, 02:18:35 PM
mlafleur@jets.nfl.com
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 06, 2022, 02:29:32 PM
Post by: reuben on October 06, 2022, 10:13:13 PM
Yeah, that was a terrible play design. I said that during the game. I know everyone was screaming for him to throw it to GW on the crosser, but the field is cut in half there and Wilson isn't reading that side of the field.
Moore is largely responsible for that pick because he didn't sprint his man out of the play. I don't like a deep crosser running towards a clear there though. Tricky read.
I'd bet Moore was supposed to run a comeback to the first down line, realized too late, and then just kinda jogged in confusion. He's man-covered, if he stops at the line to gain, he pins his DB short and that would have been a safe ball to throw as long as Zach didn't underlead the receiver.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 07, 2022, 09:14:04 AM
I'd bet Moore was supposed to run a comeback to the first down line, realized too late, and then just kinda jogged in confusion. He's man-covered, if he stops at the line to gain, he pins his DB short and that would have been a safe ball to throw as long as Zach didn't underlead the receiver.
If it's a comeback, it's an even worse play design than if he were running a go route.
Post by: Badger on October 10, 2022, 12:27:48 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 10, 2022, 12:31:33 PM
Not saying this to be derogatory, but yesterday was definitely a "game manager" performance.
No stupid mistakes, taking only what they gave him. I'm fine with that.
Post by: Laxin on October 10, 2022, 12:36:52 PM
Not saying this to be derogatory, but yesterday was definitely a "game manager" performance.
This is the type of game that Saleh was talking about when he said that the team with raise him up. We shouldn’t be asking him to throw 50 times a game. Much better balances between run and pass.
Zach will hit one of those wow plays out of the pocket soon. Almost had one with Conklin yesterday if it was for the LBs helmet.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2022, 12:43:24 PM
We see so many QBs panic in that situation and either take the sack or force the throw. It's cool to see him trust his wheels again.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 10, 2022, 12:47:05 PM
Not saying this to be derogatory, but yesterday was definitely a "game manager" performance.I don't think that's derogatory. The goal was to run the ball yesterday. He threw it 21 times. Not too many wow throws in there. But that's fine.
It isn't the kind of start that screams, "Wow, he's definitely our franchise QB," but it was a positive performance.
It was the first time in his career he had a positive CPOE (completion percentage over expectation). Ugly stat that he had never been positive (and even this performance was just +0.9%), but it shows he was more accurate than normal.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 10, 2022, 12:49:00 PM
His TD run was just really smart, tough football. An unselfish, momentum stealing TD.It also helps that he's a really freaking good athlete. I don't love him taking hits like that, but if there is ever a time to take a hit, it's on 3rd and goal diving into the end zone.
We see so many QBs panic in that situation and either take the sack or force the throw. It's cool to see him trust his wheels again.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 10, 2022, 01:23:30 PM
His TD run was just really smart, tough football. An unselfish, momentum stealing TD.
We see so many QBs panic in that situation and either take the sack or force the throw. It's cool to see him trust his wheels again.
It's nice having a QB who doesn't move like he's staked into the ground.
Post by: Badger on October 11, 2022, 04:15:27 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 11, 2022, 04:20:27 PM
https://twitter.com/KevinColePFF/status/1579855097332641795?s=20&t=tgcemdGSuuHHb_mI8fDODg
I guess this is promising, but with a sample size of 32 completions, and him having a 56% completion with 1:2 td:int ratio?
Id think the amount of attempts he has in a clean pocket is a very very small number. But the guy has shown progress, and the OL situation is horrifically bad. So Zach has definitely exceeded expectations
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 11, 2022, 04:27:26 PM
the OL situation is horrifically bad
I don't believe this is true anymore. The combination we have now should at least be average and has the potential to be very good.
Post by: MBGreen on October 11, 2022, 04:30:56 PM
I guess this is promising, but with a sample size of 32 completions, and him having a 56% completion with 1:2 td:int ratio?
Id think the amount of attempts he has in a clean pocket is a very very small number. But the guy has shown progress, and the OL situation is horrifically bad. So Zach has definitely exceeded expectations
This is the best OL combination we've had in about 10 years. Do you even watch the games?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 11, 2022, 04:43:31 PM
I guess this is promising, but with a sample size of 32 completions, and him having a 56% completion with 1:2 td:int ratio?
Id think the amount of attempts he has in a clean pocket is a very very small number. But the guy has shown progress, and the OL situation is horrifically bad. So Zach has definitely exceeded expectations
I'm torn on my nominee for worst post of the day.
It's either this OR insanity complaining about phantom fumbles
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2022, 04:45:55 PM
LaFleur has started the last two games with an RPO for Wilson. He needs to get some screens into the script early to get Wilson in rhythm. This will help our interior OL out a lot too.
We haven't seen many designed rollouts either. We saw the PA opposite call that went for a 17 yard loss. Hopefully that doesn't happen ever again.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 13, 2022, 07:53:28 PM
This is the best OL combination we've had in about 10 years. Do you even watch the games?
Having to start 5 OTs isn't bad?
We've had like 3 or 4 go on IR.
We have some great young guys but they all been hurt
And the fant/Becton questions for the future are very important
Post by: MBGreen on October 13, 2022, 07:58:27 PM
Having to start 5 OTs isn't bad?What the freak are you whining about now?
We've had like 3 or 4 go on IR.
We have some great young guys but they all been hurt
And the fant/Becton questions for the future are very important
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 13, 2022, 08:35:36 PM
Post by: delavan on October 13, 2022, 08:42:56 PM
I'm torn on my nominee for worst post of the day.haha
Post by: dcm1602 on October 13, 2022, 08:49:05 PM
What the freak are you whining about now?
Who the freak is whining
I literally gave Zach Wilson credit for performing way better than I would've expected, which was even more impressive because of the injuries on the OL and the constant rotating and insertion of whoever the freak we could find.
Post by: MBGreen on October 13, 2022, 08:53:48 PM
Who the freak is whiningYou are...
I literally gave Zach Wilson credit for performing way better than I would've expected, which was even more impressive because of the injuries on the OL and the constant rotating and insertion of whoever the freak we could find.
It's either whining or trolling with you.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 13, 2022, 08:55:38 PM
It's come at the cost of a lot of injuries but this OLine is better than we've had in the last few years. AVT continuing to perform well as a tackle is taking a lot of edge off any Becton/Fant questions.The OL still hasn't been good though. It's been good enough where we can run our offense but by and large, it hasn't been good. The tackle play has mostly been bad outside of AVT. Fant was bad. Mitchell was solid for a Day 3 rookie but he's still a Day 3 rookie tackle.
The good news is that I think the finished product still has a chance to be good. We can play the same line in back-to-back weeks. Brown was on his first game after signing late in camp and missing a lot of time. AVT had never played RT. And if the line struggles, we have Fant and Mitchell back at some point to bolster the line. And we can move AVT around to fill gaps. I still think AVT is better at guard long-term, but his versatility can only be a bonus. Right now, we need him at tackle.
Post by: Badger on October 16, 2022, 09:49:00 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 16, 2022, 10:00:06 AM
Post by: Coach K on October 23, 2022, 04:00:07 PM
Thus kid needs to earn to throw it away if I have to watch any more double spins
Post by: Coach K on October 23, 2022, 04:08:30 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 23, 2022, 04:11:02 PM
Hi my name is Zach wilson and my pocket awareness is trash.
"pocket"
Post by: Coach K on October 23, 2022, 04:57:08 PM
"pocket"Yes to be fair it's non existent. That being said after you've made your 2nd or 3rd juke or spin
Get rid of it
He finally started doing it near the end of the half . Kid just got his first season of starts under his belt .
Hes at least learning on the fly
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 23, 2022, 06:28:49 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 23, 2022, 06:30:58 PM
He's had an average performance so far. Cue MLF as the reason for everything.
He's been bad in spots, but he's taking care of the football and keeping our defense out of tough situations. He only had two really bad misses today.
The playcalling doesn't do anyone on our offense any favors most of the time. We have no rhythm to start it just builds as games go.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 23, 2022, 06:31:31 PM
He's been bad in spots, but he's taking care of the football and keeping our defense out of tough situations. He only had two really bad misses today.
The playcalling doesn't do anyone on our offense any favors most of the time. We have no rhythm to start it just builds as games go.
Right, average.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 23, 2022, 06:55:50 PM
Right, average.
He's average for a jets QB compared to Falk Geno Hackenberg and Tebow
An average QB in the league? That would put him inside the top 20, which he's absolutely freaking not
He's not turning it over is the only good thing you can say, and that might just be divine intervention at this point
Post by: Jumbo on October 23, 2022, 07:03:37 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 23, 2022, 07:14:22 PM
2nd year QB being this bad in today's NFL has basically no shot. He doesn't have the Josh Allen rushing upside to save him while he develops as a passer either. It's going to look even worse without Breece.Worried about that. Usually there are more signs by now.
Post by: reuben on October 23, 2022, 07:17:52 PM
he's taking care of the football
He's not though. He didn't turn the ball over but it's not for lack of trying. Scrambling to the perimeter and then chucking it across the field or into the end zone is not taking care of the football. Throwing to Berrios in double coverage is not taking care of the football. That freaking double pirouette fumble that would have stood for a touchdown if it had been called the other way on the field is not taking care of the football.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 23, 2022, 07:21:42 PM
He's not though. He didn't turn the ball over but it's not for lack of trying. Scrambling to the perimeter and then chucking it across the field or into the end zone is not taking care of the football. Throwing to Berrios in double coverage is not taking care of the football. That freaking double pirouette fumble that would have stood for a touchdown if it had been called the other way on the field is not taking care of the football.This. Results are fine. Process is not.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 23, 2022, 07:23:53 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 23, 2022, 07:28:40 PM
Had he lost us a football game?No. But he certainly isn't the reason we are winning.
Post by: Coach K on October 23, 2022, 07:29:29 PM
But my critique is legitimate imo. He at least woke up and toned it down and did what he needed to today
We just need to pray AVT and Davis come back
Post by: MBGreen on October 23, 2022, 07:32:26 PM
No. But he certainly isn't the reason we are winning.No...it's our run game and defense. I know you want to absolve MLF, but hes a major problem.
Ill start to panic in year 3. For now I'll enjoy the journey. We've already eclipsed our win total from last season.
Post by: MBGreen on October 23, 2022, 07:33:04 PM
This. Results are fine. Process is not.You're bitching about how we win? Lol
Get a haircut.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 23, 2022, 07:39:52 PM
He's not though. He didn't turn the ball over but it's not for lack of trying. Scrambling to the perimeter and then chucking it across the field or into the end zone is not taking care of the football. Throwing to Berrios in double coverage is not taking care of the football. That freaking double pirouette fumble that would have stood for a touchdown if it had been called the other way on the field is not taking care of the football.
That play was Sanchez-esque.
Also Sanchez-esque, he's very jittery under pressure.
He's not losing us any games but he's also not progressing the way you want to see a #2 overall pick progress. Hopefully he picks it up.
Post by: Coach K on October 23, 2022, 07:48:03 PM
No...it's our run game and defense. I know you want to absolve MLF, but hes a major problem.I'll he clear. Because I went AWOL I've criticized Lafelur all yr in one of my private jets chats with just a couple people
Ill start to panic in year 3. For now I'll enjoy the journey. We've already eclipsed our win total from last season.
Long developing bootlegs way too early in the game. We need more quick slants ins drags crosses and Moore needs to be more than a 9 route decoy
He seesaw between amazing play design and abolsutlely awful situational playcalling
But yeah zach still needs to speed his clock up
This ties into Lafleur playcalling and design . It's his job to force Zach to do this witb tbe designs and he's not.
But I won't absolve the OL Zach or Lafleur they're all learning on the fly in their respective roles and juggling injuries
Hes making chicken salad out of chicken excrement sometimes . We all know that
He progressed from chucking it up. To now scrambling to a detriment.
But he also used great judgement in the big run he ripped off
I expect this all to work itself out with experience
The rest is on Mike Lafleur and tbe WRs if he can do that .
Post by: Coach K on October 23, 2022, 08:01:08 PM
Post by: Coach K on October 23, 2022, 08:07:24 PM
And this will likely he the best defense we play all year .
Next week he has to do better though
Post by: reuben on October 23, 2022, 08:21:31 PM
Mike LaFleur's approach to developing his raw quarterback has been to call the same games he would for a veteran and then just wait for "it" to eventually click, week in, week out. The announcers mentioned that Wilson has a full season under his belt now, that he's no longer a rookie, and that the training wheels needed to come off. lover of the older lady, what training wheels?! We got training wheels? Put them shits on!
Post by: Badger on October 23, 2022, 08:43:24 PM
The announcers mentioned that Wilson has a full season under his belt now, that he's no longer a rookie, and that the training wheels needed to come off. lover of the older lady, what training wheels?! We got training wheels? Put them shits on!
We put them in a closet after 2009 and lost them when we moved to Florham Park.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 23, 2022, 08:53:14 PM
We put them in a closet after 2009 and lost them when we moved to Florham Park.
The color coded arm band should still be in the OC's office desk drawer.
Post by: Jumbo on October 23, 2022, 10:14:10 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 23, 2022, 10:40:20 PM
We're winning with him the same way we won with Sanchez. He hasn't thrown a TD or INT in 3 weeks. 1 TD and 2 INT on the season through 4 games. We've let up 20, 17, 10, 9 in his 4 starts. The only times he's looked reasonably okay are parts of the Miami game and the 4th quarter of the Pittsurgh game. He looked completely lost the last two weeks. Guys like Herbert and Burrow show signs / play quite well even though their offensive playcalling is also MiLF garbage tier. Odds are not good that he's anything better than someone like Daniel Jones. Sucks but it is what it is. If he does develop I'll eat my crow but I just don't see it in him. He can game manage on a Sanchez tier with a couple of boneheaded plays per game, which is only slightly above what Darnold gave us.Leaning this way too. Most young QBs who turn into something have shown more by now.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 23, 2022, 10:46:15 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 23, 2022, 10:49:15 PM
Basically every QB has played poorly against Denver this year
I was just about to say this. This was the most points the Broncos had given up at home this year.
I'm reserving judgment until we start facing some softer pass defenses (i.e. week 12 against the Bears).
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 23, 2022, 10:56:09 PM
Post by: Jumbo on October 23, 2022, 10:58:14 PM
Basically every QB has played poorly against Denver this year
It's not just about this game. Denver and GB, sure give him a pass because those are top 5 pass defenses, but against Miami (24th ranked pass defense) and Pittsburgh (31st ranked pass defense) he had the same issues with missing throws. We have already faced those softer pass defenses. Was anyone overly impressed with his play in those two games?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 23, 2022, 11:08:37 PM
It's not just about this game. Denver and GB, sure give him a pass because those are top 5 pass defenses, but against Miami (24th ranked pass defense) and Pittsburgh (31st ranked pass defense) he had the same issues with missing throws. We have already faced those softer pass defenses. Was anyone overly impressed with his play in those two games?
Pittsburgh was his first game action since hurting his knee in early August and I was impressed with his performance in the 4th quarter. I was at the Miami game and thought his performance was fine.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 23, 2022, 11:12:14 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 23, 2022, 11:22:57 PM
Now that we are past two of the three best pass defenses we will see this season, I’ll expect more out of the passing game. Especially if we can stop going empty backfield and not chip our TEs everytime
Post by: Libero_2 on October 23, 2022, 11:26:21 PM
Just another fourth quarter speech from Zach in a pivotal moment
Post by: Badger on October 23, 2022, 11:37:55 PM
He’s mid until he does better.
I generally think the criticisms are warranted and he needs to show more but the people writing him off after these four games/victories need to slow down.Agree with this. Judging his body of work so far is fine, assuming he can never play better than this after a season's worth of starts under his belt is dumb.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 24, 2022, 06:48:26 AM
Ill start to panic in year 3.
-This entire board about 2 weeks before giving up on Darnold halfway through year 2
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 07:43:31 AM
-This entire board about 2 weeks before giving up on Darnold halfway through year 2
You can't live in the past with this team....you'll melt years off your lifespan.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2022, 09:38:06 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on October 24, 2022, 09:51:08 AM
He will definitely get better. But you would like more positive signs.
This
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 09:55:17 AM
He will definitely get better. But you would like more positive signs.
Of course. He runs a pretty effective hurry-up offense. That's a positive sign.
MLF has to figure out better ways to get Zach in a rhythm in the first half, because the current scripted plays have been dogshit so far.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 24, 2022, 09:56:33 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on October 24, 2022, 11:00:36 AM
@Michael_Nania
Ok I just finished watching ZW's DEN film and... that was bad. Real bad. On par with his NE & ATL games in his bottom tier. Worrisome.
His good first 2 games are keeping his 2022 season afloat right now, but he has to right the ship quickly. Needs to start showing clear progress
Post by: Jumbo on October 24, 2022, 01:31:35 PM
He runs a pretty effective hurry-up offense.
I feel like this has been said about every shitty QB that's come through this organization when we're trying to cope with their shitty play
Post by: Badger on October 24, 2022, 01:33:56 PM
I feel like this has been said about every shitty QB that's come through this organization when we're trying to cope with their shitty playIt does beg the question of why that's the case though.
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 01:36:16 PM
I feel like this has been said about every shitty QB that's come through this organization when we're trying to cope with their shitty play
I don't remember our "other shitty QBs" winning games in the 4th quarter while running the hurry-up.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 24, 2022, 01:36:52 PM
I don't remember our "other shitty QBs" winning games in the 4th quarter while running the hurry-up.
Season 1 and 2 Sanchez.
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 01:40:36 PM
Season 1 and 2 Sanchez.
that's 1 QB...12 years ago.
Nobody since has been able to run an effective 4th quarter comeback consistently. And before you mention Fitz, his 4th quarters usually ended with an INT.
Post by: Jumbo on October 24, 2022, 01:40:38 PM
I don't remember our "other shitty QBs" winning games in the 4th quarter while running the hurry-up.
http://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,5014.msg384602.html#msg384602
Just one example I found on a quick search of this board. We definitely also said it about Sanchez. Probably didn't say it about Geno though.
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 01:42:33 PM
http://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,5014.msg384602.html#msg384602
Just one example I found on a quick search of this board. We definitely also said it about Sanchez. Probably didn't say it about Geno though.
Darnold looked good in the hurry-up in his rookie season....which is what reuben was referring to. It went to excrement after Bates left and Foul Boggains was installed.
Post by: Jumbo on October 24, 2022, 01:49:20 PM
Darnold looked good in the hurry-up in his rookie season....which is what reuben was referring to. It went to excrement after Bates left and Foul Boggains was installed.
Funny, because the other post that popped up was this one where everyone was trashing Bates http://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,4370.msg317837.html#msg317837
"They look good in the hurry-up" is just a way of dealing with the fact that they look shitty in the regular offense, whether that's the fault of the scheme or the fault of the QB being shitty. Or we're just drafting a bunch of backyard football style QBs and screwing up their development over and over.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 24, 2022, 02:03:45 PM
2015 Chan is our best OC
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 02:04:25 PM
Funny, because the other post that popped up was this one where everyone was trashing Bates http://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,4370.msg317837.html#msg317837
"They look good in the hurry-up" is just a way of dealing with the fact that they look shitty in the regular offense, whether that's the fault of the scheme or the fault of the QB being shitty. Or we're just drafting a bunch of backyard football style QBs and screwing up their development over and over.
I've been saying MLF's "regular offense" has been garbage all season...thanks for making my point. If Zach was a shitty QB, he'd look terrible in every situation (especially in the 4th quarter).
I'm frustrated as well, i want Zach to take the next step asap too. I'm just not seeing any help from the OC whatsoever.
Post by: MoreCharacters on October 24, 2022, 02:07:19 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 02:08:25 PM
Why can't we find a good OC?
2015 Chan is our best OC
Maybe when the Colts fire Reich, we can bring him in to replace MLF.
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 02:36:29 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 24, 2022, 03:28:49 PM
I don't remember our "other shitty QBs" winning games in the 4th quarter while running the hurry-up.
Geno
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 24, 2022, 03:29:58 PM
Gonna be tough to evaluate Zach with our oline the way it is for the rest of the year.
https://twitter.com/ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984?s=46&t=d-_kLApSGpHCtL2Hi6NX3Q
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2022, 03:30:54 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 24, 2022, 03:34:32 PM
https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/1584309161676140545?s=20&t=RceCA0_zF5LHl5o5A-tVMA
Hearing someone else say it makes me want to vomit
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2022, 03:49:09 PM
Hearing someone else say it makes me want to vomitIt is the same cycle we have had with most young QBs.
Year 1: disappointing but played best football down the stretch to give you hope
Year 2: slightly better but most of the same fatal flaws continue
Hope Wilson breaks the cycle, and he still has time, but so far, it's the same story as Geno and Sam.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 24, 2022, 03:56:06 PM
This year it’s how many OT injuries since the start of camp?
Fant came in hurt
McDermott
Becton
Brown
Fant played hurt until he couldn’t
Mitchell
AVT
That’s an absurd slate of injuries to one position, that wasn’t even deep before the guys started going down.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 24, 2022, 04:35:50 PM
Saleh will wink or swim with him...JD too potentially
Post by: Heismanberg on October 24, 2022, 04:41:46 PM
The OL can't be an excuse for Zach anymore.
Why not? It was awful yesterday and it just got a hell of a lot worse.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 24, 2022, 04:51:52 PM
Why not? It was awful yesterday and it just got a hell of a lot worse.
Completely agreed, if the OL is a disaster it’s a hit on the QBs ability to develop. That’s just a fact. Can the WRs win faster? Can the scheme improve? Can we incorporate more screens and draws and go under center more? Yes to all of those things. But at the end of the day, if you can’t protect for a 5 step drop consistently, your QB is going to struggle.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 24, 2022, 04:58:49 PM
Completely agreed, if the OL is a disaster it’s a hit on the QBs ability to develop. That’s just a fact. Can the WRs win faster? Can the scheme improve? Can we incorporate more screens and draws and go under center more? Yes to all of those things. But at the end of the day, if you can’t protect for a 5 step drop consistently, your QB is going to struggle.
Mack as Wilson runs for his life and evades yet another sack: "How bout make the throw?"
Post by: reuben on October 24, 2022, 05:02:05 PM
https://twitter.com/ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984?s=46&t=d-_kLApSGpHCtL2Hi6NX3Q
Honestly, that's hilarious.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 24, 2022, 05:03:58 PM
https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/1584309161676140545?s=20&t=RceCA0_zF5LHl5o5A-tVMA
Darnold would've thrown at least 2 INTs against that defense
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2022, 05:06:26 PM
Mack as Wilson runs for his life and evades yet another sack: "How bout make the throw?"*Zach overthrows wide open receiver by 5 yards*
Heismanberg: "Blame the OC. Blame the OL. Blame the WR. God forbid Zach take any blame."
Post by: Heismanberg on October 24, 2022, 05:09:01 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 24, 2022, 05:09:02 PM
Now make out.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 24, 2022, 05:16:51 PM
*Zach overthrows wide open receiver by 5 yards*
Heismanberg: "Blame the OC. Blame the OL. Blame the WR. God forbid Zach take any blame."
As far as throws Zach should have hit, he missed 2 by my memory, the Uzamoh pass and the behind Mims throw. I blame the Mims one on timing and lack of practice reps. He missed CJ and that’s a pass he needs to hit no questions. Garret bailed him out on another ball as well.
He had pressure in his face in under 1.5 seconds a hell of a lot more than he had time and fucked up a throw he should have had.
Was Zach good? Nope, but can the offense as a whole get better? Abso-freaking-lutely
Post by: Libero_2 on October 24, 2022, 05:25:17 PM
What are the chances that the injury to Hall actually leads to better Zach Wilson performances? Now taking away his top play maker is NOT going to transform Zach into an elite QB, that’s not what I mean.
But what if it forces MLF to reconfigure the passing game, schematically? It’s been easy to see and to say that Hall is the engine and how we were built. Well that engine is now gone. So we have to find another way to move the car. If we (as largely novice football guys) can see major issues in the scheme and passing concepts one has to assume LaFleur and the offensive staff can as well. Maybe they will now be forced to sit down and evaluate what needs to change to make the passing game more effective because simply put the ground game isn’t going to be able carry us any more.
TLDR; we all want scheme changes on offense, will Breece Halls injury force Mike LaFleur to do just that?
Post by: Miamipuck on October 24, 2022, 05:47:23 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2022, 05:55:47 PM
Honestly, we will see what this staff is made of in the coming weeks. Nobody expected a Super Bowl this year, and obviously, losing the two best players on offense isn't going to change that. However, this might show the mettle of the coaching staff. The best coaches can alter strategies and such to hide flaws and shortcomings. So let's see what becomes of the season before we cower in the fetal position.That's a big reason of why I defend LaFleur. LaFleur showed me a lot last year on how he was able to maintain a competent offense despite QB upheaval, constant injuries, and a lot less talent than we have now. Now he's getting tested a lot again. It's a big test for both Wilson and LaFleur. The offense has been held up the last few weeks by some Breece Hall splash plays. Can we still create big plays without him? We've been a disaster on 3rd downs - can we find a way to move the chains (or avoid it entirely by making big plays?).
Garrett Wilson looked like a star-in-the-making in Week 2. Elijah Moore looked like a potential star last season. We still have some playmakers. We just need to find a way to throw them the ball more effectively.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 25, 2022, 07:50:20 AM
That's a big reason of why I defend LaFleur. LaFleur showed me a lot last year on how he was able to maintain a competent offense despite QB upheaval, constant injuries, and a lot less talent than we have now. Now he's getting tested a lot again. It's a big test for both Wilson and LaFleur. The offense has been held up the last few weeks by some Breece Hall splash plays. Can we still create big plays without him? We've been a disaster on 3rd downs - can we find a way to move the chains (or avoid it entirely by making big plays?).
Garrett Wilson looked like a star-in-the-making in Week 2. Elijah Moore looked like a potential star last season. We still have some playmakers. We just need to find a way to throw them the ball more effectively.
Agreed. It would be nice if they somehow ran routes where they get separation and such. Which is mostly directed at Lafleur and Moore.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2022, 08:08:48 AM
Agreed. It would be nice if they somehow ran routes where they get separation and such. Which is mostly directed at Lafleur and Moore.
LaFleur calls a lot of plays where the receivers are all in the same area. I don't understand why it's so difficult for him to scheme our receivers open.
Crossers are our best plays and they do take a while to develop but if he rolls the pocket for Wilson, it could have a shot a couple times a game.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 25, 2022, 03:08:24 PM
These numbers describe exactly what I’ve seen outta Zach this year
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2022, 03:16:13 PM
https://twitter.com/pff_sam/status/1584975201149759488?s=46&t=UF3IZVWtFLyknQxVjFP65wThe positive is that Zach could be the type of QB who can do well if he has a great supporting cast, especially up front.
These numbers describe exactly what I’ve seen outta Zach this year
However, he cannot be that useless under pressure. He does a good job avoiding sacks and getting some throwaways, but he also runs into some sacks sometimes when he abandons the pocket quickly. He is literally the worst QB in the NFL when he is pressured. You can see he can get out of pressure with his legs, but he rarely turns that into a positive play.
Post by: insanity on October 25, 2022, 04:07:52 PM
I don't think this is all on zach.
I watched all of zachs passes last week via coachs film and there were zero receivers open when he was under pressure.
I haven't had a chance to watch this week's film but I don't think it was very different.
MLF is great at designing explosive creative plays be he can't call a consistent game if his life depended on it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2022, 04:25:13 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2022, 04:30:56 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2022, 04:33:37 PM
he had an obvious dropped interception last week)
on a play where his receiver was tackled
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2022, 04:34:46 PM
I haven't had a chance to watch this week's film but I don't think it was very different.
It's not.
Not sure how Nania came to the conclusion that Wilson missed open receivers against Denver. No one was open and a lot of it is due to play design.
Post by: insanity on October 25, 2022, 04:40:51 PM
I just rewatched the game quickly and he barely ever misread the play and had an open man he should have seen. It happened maybe twice all game. There was a 3rd time that he opted for the check down rather than waiting for a half tick to go for a bigger gain down the middle, but I'm not going to get on him for that with how poor the line was holding up.
The bigger issue was relievers not being open (MLF or poor talent) and poor ball placement.
Although live some of the balls looked really bad. Aside from the CJ crossed all the balls hit their recievers hands. He played well. I'm honestly more concerned with the ball placement on some of the balls that were caught. He left yards on the field and it was likely because his footwork was terrible.
Net:net Wilson did a good job as a game manager
Denver defense is great
MlF is predictable and can't get guys open consistently
Post by: Libero_2 on October 25, 2022, 06:54:25 PM
There's also something to the fact Wilson hasn't been turning it over. Some of it is luck (he had an obvious dropped interception last week), but he isn't forcing the ball as much. At some point, you need to actually make positive plays instead of avoiding negative ones, but the lack of turnovers is a big reason we've been winning.
Why focus on the dropped int when Berrios got held up and had no chance to count? If you want to bitch about “Almost turnovers” then the fumble that wasn’t should be where your focus is.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2022, 06:58:24 PM
Three defenders sitting in zone and Berrios broke behind them, but Wilson threw it between the crowd. Shocked it wasn't picked.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2022, 07:13:16 PM
The drop that Berrios had was the riskiest throw of the game. I don't know how he fit that through there but I'd rather not see too many of those types of throws.
Three defenders sitting in zone and Berrios broke behind them, but Wilson threw it between the crowd. Shocked it wasn't picked.
I had to mute the audio after that play to calm down.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 25, 2022, 09:50:16 PM
I had to mute the audio after that play to calm down.
I remember Davis complaining the ball wasn’t “on target” I was thinking he literally put it in the only possible spot to not get picked off. The definition of a “your receiver catches it or nobody can” ball.
Extremely dangerous pass for sure.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2022, 10:34:13 PM
I remember Davis complaining the ball wasn’t “on target” I was thinking he literally put it in the only possible spot to not get picked off. The definition of a “your receiver catches it or nobody can” ball.
Extremely dangerous pass for sure.
Davis is someone who I really wish wasn't.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2022, 10:44:38 PM
I remember Davis complaining the ball wasn’t “on target”
"Brett Rypien would've completed that pass"
Post by: insanity on October 25, 2022, 11:15:48 PM
I remember Davis complaining the ball wasn’t “on target” I was thinking he literally put it in the only possible spot to not get picked off. The definition of a “your receiver catches it or nobody can” ball.
Extremely dangerous pass for sure.
It's one of those passes where the perception of the decision making is based on the outcome.
If its a catch he's amazing
If its picked its an egregious decision
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 26, 2022, 09:18:38 AM
LaFleur calls a lot of plays where the receivers are all in the same area. I don't understand why it's so difficult for him to scheme our receivers open.
Crossers are our best plays and they do take a while to develop but if he rolls the pocket for Wilson, it could have a shot a couple times a game.
Exactly this. Look at the very first play of the game. He had two receivers a couple of yards apart and over threw both of them.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 26, 2022, 09:22:12 AM
Exactly this. Look at the very first play of the game. He had two receivers a couple of yards apart and over threw both of them.
Look at the first three plays. None of them make sense. The spacing is terrible.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 26, 2022, 08:06:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guGBlf6zqv4
Post by: Badger on October 28, 2022, 04:19:30 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2022, 03:24:51 PM
Than run with it, poopchute.
Post by: reuben on October 30, 2022, 05:36:15 PM
https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt/status/1586801682289139712?t=0mZaHYxxHUzvuak1goEY6Q&s=19 (https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt/status/1586801682289139712?t=0mZaHYxxHUzvuak1goEY6Q&s=19)
Than run with it, poopchute.
I don't want to throw the ball away because I'm bad at it.
Imagine being so inaccurate that you can't even consistently hit deliberate incompletions.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 30, 2022, 06:35:30 PM
17 games into his career Zach does NOT look like the answer. That being said, it looks like we have the most talent at the skill positions in recent memory and the defense looks legit good. I think we could win with a pedestrian QB like Jared Goff.
Question is...do we possibly look at QB in this upcoming draft? Do we bring in a vet like Jimmy G to compete? My current stance is, we're wasting an opportunity with solid young talent by playing Zach under center.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2022, 06:37:58 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 06:41:07 PM
I brought this up in the game thread, but I think it deserves revisiting...I agree we are wasting this young talent this season with Zach, but there's no other reasonable answer for this season. This season, we are pot committed to Zach Wilson. Unless you think Mike White is an NFL starting QB, there is no reason to bench Zach unless today continues to be a trend. He hasn't played well, but overall, he's been just as good or better than Flacco was, and he's still very early in his career.
17 games into his career Zach does NOT look like the answer. That being said, it looks like we have the most talent at the skill positions in recent memory and the defense looks legit good. I think we could win with a pedestrian QB like Jared Goff.
Question is...do we possibly look at QB in this upcoming draft? Do we bring in a vet like Jimmy G to compete? My current stance is, we're wasting an opportunity with solid young talent by playing Zach under center.
But yes, if this continues to be the trend from Zach, we will need to either bring in significant competition or an outright replacement.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 06:43:48 PM
I brought this up in the game thread, but I think it deserves revisiting...Zach needs a real OC and QB coach first.
17 games into his career Zach does NOT look like the answer. That being said, it looks like we have the most talent at the skill positions in recent memory and the defense looks legit good. I think we could win with a pedestrian QB like Jared Goff.
Question is...do we possibly look at QB in this upcoming draft? Do we bring in a vet like Jimmy G to compete? My current stance is, we're wasting an opportunity with solid young talent by playing Zach under center.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 30, 2022, 06:45:56 PM
I brought this up in the game thread, but I think it deserves revisiting...
17 games into his career Zach does NOT look like the answer. That being said, it looks like we have the most talent at the skill positions in recent memory and the defense looks legit good. I think we could win with a pedestrian QB like Jared Goff.
Question is...do we possibly look at QB in this upcoming draft? Do we bring in a vet like Jimmy G to compete? My current stance is, we're wasting an opportunity with solid young talent by playing Zach under center.
You don't bring in Jimmy G to compete, you bring him in to start
You want someone to compete it's going to be Baker, Darnold (who almost certainly isn't coming here) or any of the marginal retreads available
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 06:47:18 PM
You don't bring in Jimmy G to compete, you bring him in to startJimmy G isn't coming to NY....might as well put a pin in that now
You want someone to compete it's going to be Baker, Darnold (who almost certainly isn't coming here) or any of the marginal retreads available
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 06:48:07 PM
You don't bring in Jimmy G to compete, you bring him in to startJimmy G isn't that good. Nobody wanted to trade for him as a starter. Nobody is going to want to sign him to be the main starter most likely.
You want someone to compete it's going to be Baker, Darnold (who almost certainly isn't coming here) or any of the marginal retreads available
Garoppolo will most likely either stay in SF and serve as a backstop for Lance, or go to the Jets and serve as a backstop for Wilson. Or he will go somewhere else as a transition QB for another rookie. That's what Jimmy G is at this stage of his career. He's basically a younger Fitzpatrick.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:06:42 PM
Jimmy G, Lamar, Baker, Sam Darnold or whatever....they're not coming here barring something catastrophic.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 30, 2022, 07:16:38 PM
Guys...this regime is all-in on Zach, he isn't going anywhere this season or next season. Too much time and resources have already been invested. If anything, the OC and/or offensive assistants will change long before Zach is shipped out.
Jimmy G, Lamar, Baker, Sam Darnold or whatever....they're not coming here barring something catastrophic.
We need a new GM if that's the case
I'd hope our GM knows about sunken cost fallacy
I get that you're tethered to Zack, but you need a contingency plan.
Obviously you have the rest of the season to evaluate, but unless something changes you can't be committed to the guy just because
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 30, 2022, 07:22:53 PM
that fake 'throw - away' that mccourty picked is one of the worst football plays i have ever seen. if i saw another team's young QB do that, i'd be laughing my derriere off and saying the guy doesn't have the goods based on the incompetency of that play alone
he acts like he realized he fvcked up and was pissed at himself about it
then he decides to throw another horrible air ball to anybody but a jet just a few plays later. he didn't learn or register anything
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:26:02 PM
We need a new GM if that's the case
I'd hope our GM knows about sunken cost fallacy
I get that you're tethered to Zack, but you need a contingency plan.
Obviously you have the rest of the season to evaluate, but unless something changes you can't be committed to the guy just because
JD isn't going anywhere...for awhile. I didn't bother reading the rest of your post.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 30, 2022, 07:26:11 PM
he's showing us that he is going to continue making the same mistakes
even now i'm thinking about what he would have to do to convince us to go into year 3 with him comfortably. make few mistakes, win enough behind his arm to make playoffs? that seems like a mountainous, monumental task
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 07:28:06 PM
We need a new GM if that's the case
I'd hope our GM knows about sunken cost fallacy
I get that you're tethered to Zack, but you need a contingency plan.
Obviously you have the rest of the season to evaluate, but unless something changes you can't be committed to the guy just because
Jfc
Post by: reuben on October 30, 2022, 09:48:41 PM
17 games into his career Zach does NOT look like the answer. That being said, it looks like we have the most talent at the skill positions in recent memory and the defense looks legit good. I think we could win with a pedestrian QB like Jared Goff.
The regime deserves an opportunity with the talent they've developed to give it a go with a middling veteran quarterback. Jimmy G or Jared Goff work for me.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 10:06:09 PM
The regime deserves an opportunity with the talent they've developed to give it a go with a middling veteran quarterback. Jimmy G or Jared Goff work for me.That's why I don't agree that "they're tied to Zach." That would be the case if the rest of the team sucked. But the rest of the team looks promising, and QB is the weak link. I think in that case, the coach/GM can absolutely get a chance with another QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 10:41:29 PM
That's why I don't agree that "they're tied to Zach." That would be the case if the rest of the team sucked. But the rest of the team looks promising, and QB is the weak link. I think in that case, the coach/GM can absolutely get a chance with another QB.
Our offensive line is not good
Our special teams did not look good today either
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 10:45:10 PM
Our offensive line is not goodThis is more of a big picture note than short term.
Our special teams did not look good today either
Long-term, I'm not worried about special teams, and I think JD will keep building the OL. JD is clearly willing to throw money and resources at the OL, though he's gotten a little unlucky this year with the injuries. He could have done some things differently, but I don't think JD should be fired if Wilson busts.
This is a playoff team with average QB play, even with our other flaws. We're currently in the playoffs now with bad QB play.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 10:45:42 PM
Davis is fine but he’s overpaid
Moore can freak off
Mims and Berrios are role players
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 10:46:50 PM
We also might only have one legitimate receiverThat 2021 draft that looked like a home run 2 months ago quickly has a lot of questions. That draft might end up being just AVT and the Michael Carters.
Davis is fine but he’s overpaid
Moore can freak off
Mims and Berrios are role players
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2022, 08:53:18 AM
But it's way too early to give up on Wilson. He's played 18 professional games, many of which with a terrible OL
Post by: steves850 on October 31, 2022, 09:27:03 AM
He's not playing well and if this continues the rest of the year, we have to start considering other options
But it's way too early to give up on Wilson. He's played 18 professional games, many of which with a terrible OL
A terrible line is one thing but he's making poor choices, he's not reading the defense, and he's missing on throws when it is the correct choice.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2022, 09:28:20 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 09:41:31 AM
A terrible line is one thing but he's making poor choices, he's not reading the defense, and he's missing on throws when it is the correct choice.
I think he is reading the defense when he has time. He's really good when not pressured. He is definitely feeling pressure too soon and bailing which tends to happen to QBs with iffy protection. He just needs to kill those plays and stop trying to do too much.
He isn't missing that much when he makes the right read. He was on yesterday with accuracy. The second and third interceptions were just stupid throws. The first interception was mainly due to retreating footwork. It wasn't a bad read. Just a bad throw.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2022, 10:21:31 AM
Sam Darnold: 349/588 (59%), 3,945 yds, 23 TDs, 24 INTs, QB rating 75.53
Geno: 286/503 (56%), 3,443 yds, 14 TD, 23 INT, 68.21
Mark Sanchez: 242/443 (54%), 2,994 yds, 18 TD, 20 INT, 70.5
Zach Wilson: 291/555 (55%), 3,382 yds, 12 TDs, 16 INTs, 66.36
Hughes
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2022, 10:22:38 AM
Zach’s INTs if you’re into that sorta thing
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2022, 10:27:18 AM
Total QBR: 22
Comp pct: 34
Comp over expectation: 34
Yds/att: 14
TD/INT ratio: 33
Off target pct: 28
#Jets @ESPNStatsInfo
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 10:36:30 AM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1587065273919610880?s=46&t=XRuv1Gx_L8ukATgABJRD2Q
Zach’s INTs if you’re into that sorta thing
That first play is so stupid. Just bad from the HC, OC, and the QB.
Post by: Jumbo on October 31, 2022, 11:03:35 AM
#Jets QBs first 18 games
Sam Darnold: 349/588 (59%), 3,945 yds, 23 TDs, 24 INTs, QB rating 75.53
Geno: 286/503 (56%), 3,443 yds, 14 TD, 23 INT, 68.21
Mark Sanchez: 242/443 (54%), 2,994 yds, 18 TD, 20 INT, 70.5
Zach Wilson: 291/555 (55%), 3,382 yds, 12 TDs, 16 INTs, 66.36
Hughes
Zach with the worst rating of the bunch lol. At least Darnold and Geno had the throwing to scrubs excuse. We can't play that game with Zach so instead it's all the scheme's fault.
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2022, 11:09:27 AM
Zach with the worst rating of the bunch lol. At least Darnold and Geno had the throwing to scrubs excuse. We can't play that game with Zach so instead it's all the scheme's fault.
Yes, the scheme is gold. Completely blameless.
lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 11:19:24 AM
Interesting quotes about ego getting in the way for Zach. The post-game comments kind of back that up, that his ego wouldn't let him throw the ball away anymore.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 11:20:29 AM
Zach with the worst rating of the bunch lol. At least Darnold and Geno had the throwing to scrubs excuse. We can't play that game with Zach so instead it's all the scheme's fault.
Zach has Garrett Wilson. The rest of the players out there yesterday are definitely scrubs.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 11:22:51 AM
Zach has Garrett Wilson. The rest of the players out there yesterday are definitely scrubs.But overall, Zach has had a better supporting cast than Darnold or Geno. I don't think that's even debatable.
Garrett and Conklin alone are better than what most of what Geno and Darnold threw to early in their careers.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 11:23:27 AM
https://twitter.com/GetUpESPN/status/1587088501387952132
Interesting quotes about ego getting in the way for Zach. The post-game comments kind of back that up, that his ego wouldn't let him throw the ball away anymore.
Orlosky would know a thing or two about not being the guy. 13 picks in 12 career starts. Grow up, Dan.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 11:24:45 AM
But overall, Zach has had a better supporting cast than Darnold or Geno. I don't think that's even debatable.
It is certainly debatable when it comes to Sam Darnold. Geno played with a practice squad team.
The only player that is definitely better than anything Darnold had is Garrett Wilson.
Conklin is a career backup that was signed to be TE2. He's outperforming for us which is good to see, but let's not overrate him.
Post by: Jumbo on October 31, 2022, 11:49:06 AM
It is certainly debatable when it comes to Sam Darnold. Geno played with a practice squad team.
The only player that is definitely better than anything Darnold had is Garrett Wilson.
Conklin is a career backup that was signed to be TE2. He's outperforming for us which is good to see, but let's not overrate him.
Conklin as an average to below average starter is significantly better than any TE the other two had. Add in Garrett, Moore (also better than anyone those two had, not playing basically due to the proximate cause of Zach being derriere), Corey Davis, Breece when healthy, and Zach still has a lower passer rating than those guys at the same point in his career. I’m not interested in only evaluating him if he only has All Pros surrounding him. Justin motherfucking Fields looks better throwing to significantly worse trash in a worse situation and I still wouldn’t have take him.
Post by: Badger on October 31, 2022, 11:50:03 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 11:53:13 AM
Conklin as an average to below average starter is significantly better than any TE the other two had. Add in Garrett, Moore (also better than anyone those two had, not playing basically due to the proximate cause of Zach being derriere), Corey Davis, Breece when healthy, and Zach still has a lower passer rating than those guys at the same point in his career. I’m not interested in only evaluating him if he only has All Pros surrounding him. Justin motherfucking Fields looks better throwing to significantly worse trash in a worse situation and I still wouldn’t have take him.
Elijah Moore is not playing. He played 10 snaps. The coaching staff phased him out of the offense.
Blaming Wilson for Moore being like this is a pretty big reach when it's been reported he went off on the coaching staff.
Post by: Jumbo on October 31, 2022, 11:58:58 AM
Elijah Moore is not playing. He played 10 snaps. The coaching staff phased him out of the offense.
Blaming Wilson for Moore being like this is a pretty big reach when it's been reported he went off on the coaching staff.
Moore probably wouldn’t have blown up in the first place if Zach was playing well when we were winning games. Doesn’t make him any less of a baby back bitch for blowing up the way he did though.
Overall I don’t see much reason to swallow copium about Zach though. QBs that look like he do to this point in their careers overwhelmingly bust. Maybe he’s one of the rare exceptions but I don’t see the positives exhibited that should lead anyone to that conclusion.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 31, 2022, 02:16:06 PM
Moore probably wouldn’t have blown up in the first place if Zach was playing well when we were winning games. Doesn’t make him any less of a baby back bitch for blowing up the way he did though.
Overall I don’t see much reason to swallow copium about Zach though. QBs that look like he do to this point in their careers overwhelmingly bust. Maybe he’s one of the rare exceptions but I don’t see the positives exhibited that should lead anyone to that conclusion.
This
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 08:43:43 PM
Barnwell is down on Zach
Post by: mj2sexay on October 31, 2022, 09:58:06 PM
https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/34913987/sophomore-nfl-qb-panic-struggles-lawrence-wilson-fields-jones-mills-next
Barnwell is down on Zach
Barnwell is down on literally every player not playing well. He's the master at either stating the obvious, or proposing really stupid excrement (like how the Giants should deal Saquan before the deadline).
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2022, 06:19:38 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/richcimini/status/1587170246506545155?s=46&t=cClna1V3QG-sC8YMU9fmmw
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 07:06:26 AM
I'd recommend fitting him with a shock collar during practice to correct him for backpedaling and dancing behind the LOS instead of pulling it down and running when he has an open running lane.
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 07:26:47 AM
The points made in the reddit should calm people down.
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2022, 07:54:48 AM
https://twitter.com/JGrayJets/status/1587289195038523392?t=bHWkTBoWY1ERyesnXb-Oug&s=19
The points made in the reddit should calm people down.
No, not really. His points all boil down to "look, I'm a really big Zach Wilson and I believe he's going to figure his excrement out because I really want him to". We all want him to, but there are significant flaws that need addressing and we're all looking for someone who can help him do that. You don't believe Lafleur can, there's nothing to suggest that Calabrese can, and I'm pretty sure he can't do it himself. So we have something of a problem that can't be fixed with hopium.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 08:12:01 AM
https://twitter.com/JGrayJets/status/1587289195038523392?t=bHWkTBoWY1ERyesnXb-Oug&s=19
The points made in the reddit should calm people down.
Ban yourself for posting a Justin Gray tweet
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 08:33:43 AM
No, not really. His points all boil down to "look, I'm a really big Zach Wilson and I believe he's going to figure his excrement out because I really want him to". We all want him to, but there are significant flaws that need addressing and we're all looking for someone who can help him do that. You don't believe Lafleur can, there's nothing to suggest that Calabrese can, and I'm pretty sure he can't do it himself. So we have something of a problem that can't be fixed with hopium.
No, he preached patience and used former HoF QBs to back up why. You, like a few others, need to relax.
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 08:34:11 AM
Ban yourself for posting a Justin Gray tweet
I'm not proud of it...but the message needed to be heard.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 08:35:13 AM
No, he preached patience and used former HoF QBs to back up why. You, like a few others, need to relax.
Hey, ban yourself
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2022, 08:37:03 AM
No, he preached patience and used former HoF QBs to back up why. You, like a few others, need to relax.
I'm entirely relaxed, unlike you I'm not marching around demanding this week's chosen bete noir's head on a spike.
I'd like to see something done to address ongoing issues though, and hoping that they magically fix themselves isn't really the way.
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 08:51:17 AM
Hey, ban yourself
behave...don't make me post Harrison Glaser tweets
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 08:52:31 AM
I'm entirely relaxed, unlike you I'm not marching around demanding this week's chosen bete noir's head on a spike.
I'd like to see something done to address ongoing issues though, and hoping that they magically fix themselves isn't really the way.
Well, our OC is holding back our QB's development. Forgive me, but 10 years of that excrement is enough for me.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 08:53:14 AM
Harrison Glaser
The face of mental illness
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 01, 2022, 09:13:50 AM
Quote
https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1587418895014666245?s=20&t=cNFjpZT0y8v_HiuFfGtkYA
This is the frustration the fan base has with Zach
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 10:21:00 AM
This is the frustration the fan base has with Zach
Two things:
1. We don't know if there's a fire call built in where Wilson immediately checks down to the flat given a certain look
2. There's no one open even if he hangs on there
Post by: Miamipuck on November 01, 2022, 10:23:09 AM
This is the frustration the fan base has with Zach
Nah he'll work through the complete lack of accuracy.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 10:25:35 AM
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2022, 10:35:21 AM
Two things:
1. We don't know if there's a fire call built in where Wilson immediately checks down to the flat given a certain look
2. There's no one open even if he hangs on there
I don't think it's so much about hanging on there as it is about there being a better option at the moment he made the pass.
(https://i.imgur.com/uQXfH9c.png)
I'm not a big fan of picking out a single play as evidence of anything, especially the first passing play of the game when he's still figuring out what the defense is going to be doing, but there was a better option available.
I take your first point, again especially likely given how early it was.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 10:42:27 AM
I don't think it's so much about hanging on there as it is about there being a better option at the moment he made the pass.
(https://i.imgur.com/uQXfH9c.png)
I'm not a big fan of picking out a single play as evidence of anything, especially the first passing play of the game when he's still figuring out what the defense is going to be doing, but there was a better option available.
I take your first point, again especially likely given how early it was.
IDK, man. That's a really tight window and if he's going for Wilson on that throw then the LB is in a great position to either bat or intercept the pass. The better option MIGHT have been Conklin but he everyone is reacting to the pass to the RB in the flat too quickly to determine based on the film.
Maybe if Wilson or Mims were running a deeper slant but the Patriots have effectively taken away the middle of the field.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 10:44:21 AM
It looks to me like they played a different coverage than we expected.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 10:45:46 AM
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2022, 10:49:11 AM
Again though, first pass play of the game. I don't really care about an incompletion there if it's an exercise in seeing what kind of looks the defense is going to give you. I'm not entirely supporting Orlovsky's view here.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 10:50:33 AM
I'm not entirely supporting Orlovsky's view here.
It's nitpicking. Break down the interceptions.
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2022, 10:52:12 AM
It's nitpicking. Break down the interceptions.
Yes agreed, or go find some snaps where Zach bailed too early and didn't give the play enough time to develop. There was enough he did wrong in that game to work with without needing to pick on this particular play.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 10:52:25 AM
another slant/flat concept but Davis sits
maybe stop calling that to start games
Post by: Jumbo on November 01, 2022, 10:58:44 AM
No, he preached patience and used former HoF QBs to back up why. You, like a few others, need to relax.
We don't live in the NFL where guys are excrement for 5 years and then suddenly become good anymore. That's why every QB example listed on that post played in a year starting with 1, except Aaron Rodgers (who is an awful comparison) and Josh Allen (who is the outlier of outliers, and was STILL a significantly better QB than Zach was at this point in their careers and showed a lot more development). Also, Allen was throwing to scrubs like John Brown - who had a 1000 yard season anyway - and Cole Beasley, rookie Dawson Knox, Isaiah McKenzie, and Devin Singletary rounded out the top 5 receivers. The Bills crew was even worse in 2018 and Allen still developed like he did.
I hope Zach finds some magical improvement juice but there's no real reason to believe it until he shows it. The franchise QBs play well and show signs even with excuses like poor surrounding personnel and poor scheme.
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2022, 11:02:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWkMwqQBEAE
another slant/flat concept but Davis sits
maybe stop calling that to start games
That was horrible from Zach. The linebacker sitting in the middle of the field had that locked all the way, but if Zach had pump faked that play he'd cleared a huge hole to hit the wide open receiver running the dig at the LOS. I don't see anything wrong with the play call there, just the execution.
Does Zach even have a pump fake? I don't recall ever having him seen him use one.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 11:18:53 AM
No, he preached patience and used former HoF QBs to back up why. You, like a few others, need to relax.How come the young QB gets patience, but the young OC needs to go immediately? Why does one get patience, and the other needs his head on a spike? Especially when the young OC has shown he can move the ball just as effectively with known shitty QBs like Flacco and White?
I don't care that Josh Allen (the biggest current outlier in the NFL) and freaking Troy Aikman struggled at the beginning of their careers.
And win-loss record is mostly irrelevant in this case. We aren't winning because of Zach. When we were winning, it was largely because we tried to rely on our QB as little as possible. That's the Mark Sanchez argument all over again.
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2022, 11:27:59 AM
https://twitter.com/alanhahn/status/1587400606624485377
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 11:28:33 AM
Yes agreed, or go find some snaps where Zach bailed too early and didn't give the play enough time to develop. There was enough he did wrong in that game to work with without needing to pick on this particular play.Eh, I like showing more plays he struggled on. Interceptions are obvious mistakes. These are less obvious. Outside the fact that he still made an inaccurate throw in addition to a bad read. If the processs is good, results will come. The process and the results right now are bad.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 11:30:54 AM
This feels like a correct take.I agree, but luckily nobody here wants to bench Zach. I become less confident in Zach's long-term ability with each passing game, but he still should get all season, and I'm rooting really hard for him to prove me wrong.
https://twitter.com/alanhahn/status/1587400606624485377
Post by: Jumbo on November 01, 2022, 11:42:02 AM
I agree, but luckily nobody here wants to bench Zach. I become less confident in Zach's long-term ability with each passing game, but he still should get all season, and I'm rooting really hard for him to prove me wrong.
There's no reason to bench Zach for a scrub like White Mike or re-living the Joe Flacco Experience 2022. But he needs to show marked improvement from where he is over the rest of the season for us to not need to bring in a veteran QB to start instead in 2023 and beyond. Windows are short in the NFL and this team looks like it may be in one with competent QB play. No reason to squander that in hopes that Wilson develops if it looks like he will not develop, which at the moment it doesn't look like he will do.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 11:42:41 AM
That was horrible from Zach. The linebacker sitting in the middle of the field had that locked all the way, but if Zach had pump faked that play he'd cleared a huge hole to hit the wide open receiver running the dig at the LOS. I don't see anything wrong with the play call there, just the execution.
Elijah Moore is not open. He's not coming open either.
It's quick game with some throw away routes. LaFleur's quick game is terribly designed and he has too much option routes built in.
Davis read the coverage wrong to by sitting in the opening. It's bad football by QB, WR, and playcaller. There's really nothing there.
It's designed to come out quickly, not progress to third or fourth read. I think that's part of what's killing Wilson a lot of the time. He's trigger shy and then he's bailing to extend broken plays.
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 12:13:19 PM
How come the young QB gets patience, but the young OC needs to go immediately? Why does one get patience, and the other needs his head on a spike? Especially when the young OC has shown he can move the ball just as effectively with known shitty QBs like Flacco and White?The young QB gets patience because there's considerably more resources and money invested in him to succeed. People don't buy season tickets to see MLF. And we're not even talking about a HC, we're talking about an OC...who is very replaceable.
I don't care that Josh Allen (the biggest current outlier in the NFL) and freaking Troy Aikman struggled at the beginning of their careers.
And win-loss record is mostly irrelevant in this case. We aren't winning because of Zach. When we were winning, it was largely because we tried to rely on our QB as little as possible. That's the Mark Sanchez argument all over again.
The only thing MLF has proven is that he's incapable of developing a QB and putting together a game plan tailored for the QB
Again, freak Flacco and freak white Mike.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2022, 12:18:20 PM
The young QB gets patience because there's considerably more resources and money invested in him to succeed. People don't buy season tickets to see MLF. And we're not even talking about a HC, we're talking about an OC...who is very replaceable.
The only thing MLF has proven is that he's incapable of developing a QB and putting together a game plan tailored for the QB
Again, freak Flacco and freak white Mike.
That’s not true, Dowell put asses in the seats
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 12:20:22 PM
That’s not true, Dowell put asses in the seats
Yes, but Dowell has experience with that being from the circus.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 12:24:04 PM
1. Draft QB, QB struggles year 1
2. QB struggles year 2, fire OC
3. QB struggles under new OC
4. Repeat
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 12:30:50 PM
Ah my favorite dance:
1. Draft QB, QB struggles year 1
2. QB struggles year 2, fire OC
3. QB struggles under new OC
4. Repeat
Zach needs an experienced OC and QB coach. If he's still failing after that, then yes, time will certainly be a flat circle.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 12:41:39 PM
Zach needs an experienced OC and QB coach. If he's still failing after that, then yes, time will certainly be a flat circle.No, that's just an offshoot of the cycle.
Jets hire experienced coach. Experienced coach fails, so we need to hire a fresh young mind.
Jets hire fresh young mind. He fails, and we demand a coach with experience.
Jets hire disciplinarian/poopchute. He loses the locker room, so we need a player-friendly coach.
Jets hire player-friendly coach. Players walk over him, so we now need a disciplinarian.
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 12:46:47 PM
No, that's just an offshoot of the cycle.
Jets hire experienced coach. Experienced coach fails, so we need to hire a fresh young mind.
Jets hire fresh young mind. He fails, and we demand a coach with experience.
Jets hire disciplinarian/poopchute. He loses the locker room, so we need a player-friendly coach.
Jets hire player-friendly coach. Players walk over him, so we now need a disciplinarian.
the only OC we had in the last 10 years with experience was Gailey, and he's had the best results.
We neglected the offense under Rex, then it got worse under Bowles, Lol Gase, and now we have a kid who's in over his head. I believe Greg Knapp was probably earmarked to develop Zach and teach him. That void was never filled, and Zach is paying the price. Calabrese ain't it either.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 01:00:26 PM
the only OC we had in the last 10 years with experience was Gailey, and he's had the best results.Since we fired Schottenheimer, we had Sparano, Mornhinweg, Gailey, Morton, Bates, Loggains/Gase, LaFleur.
All those guys but Morton and LaFleur had coordinator/head coach experience.
It doesn't matter if we have an experienced or inexperienced coach. We just need a good coach.
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 01:02:22 PM
It doesn't matter if we have an experienced or inexperienced coach. We just need a good coach.
Agreed. MLF ain't it.
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2022, 01:05:27 PM
No, that's just an offshoot of the cycle.Besides Mangini I don't think anyone we've had in this century could be considered a disciplinarian.
Jets hire experienced coach. Experienced coach fails, so we need to hire a fresh young mind.
Jets hire fresh young mind. He fails, and we demand a coach with experience.
Jets hire disciplinarian/poopchute. He loses the locker room, so we need a player-friendly coach.
Jets hire player-friendly coach. Players walk over him, so we now need a disciplinarian.
Maybe fun coach/serious coach is a better descriptor. Herm-Mangini-Rex-Bowles fit that pattern but Gase throws it off.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 01:14:27 PM
Besides Mangini I don't think anyone we've had in this century could be considered a disciplinarian.It's not an exact cycle, but Kotite-Parcells/Groh-Herm-Mangini-Rex-Bowles absolutely fits that pattern. Gase was more of a cycle to "we need a guy with experience and an offensive guy."
Maybe fun coach/serious coach is a better descriptor. Herm-Mangini-Rex-Bowles fit that pattern but Gase throws it off.
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2022, 01:24:15 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 01:26:01 PM
This makes me want to create a football coach political compass where the Y-axis is players coach vs disciplinarian and the X-axis is offense vs defense.
nerd
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 01, 2022, 01:27:50 PM
MLF suffers from Schotty-esque trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Just simplify. Even without Breece, this team can still run the ball. Do it. Often. Then use it to set up the pass. Not everything has to be complicated.
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 01:29:05 PM
I really believe so much of all these arguments would disappear if MLF would call 10-12 more rushes per game, and call a few PAs to capitalize on them.
MLF suffers from Schotty-esque trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Just simplify. Even without Breece, this team can still run the ball. Do it. Often. Then use it to set up the pass. Not everything has to be complicated.
yeah but....empty 5-wide sets?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 01:29:28 PM
Besides Mangini I don't think anyone we've had in this century could be considered a disciplinarian.
Maybe fun coach/serious coach is a better descriptor. Herm-Mangini-Rex-Bowles fit that pattern but Gase throws it off.
How many Adderall coaches are there?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 01:32:35 PM
I really believe so much of all these arguments would disappear if MLF would call 10-12 more rushes per game, and call a few PAs to capitalize on them.We ran the ball over 50% of the time the previous 3 weeks and people still complained about LaFleur.
MLF suffers from Schotty-esque trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Just simplify. Even without Breece, this team can still run the ball. Do it. Often. Then use it to set up the pass. Not everything has to be complicated.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 01, 2022, 03:42:27 PM
We ran the ball over 50% of the time the previous 3 weeks and people still complained about LaFleur.
That's because he's proven to be incapable of developing an offense with plays that put Zach in a position to succeed. Sure, it's not all on him, Zach needs to improve materially, but MLF hasn't shown me that he's any better than Madden the video game calling plays.
Post by: Jumbo on November 01, 2022, 05:36:20 PM
We ran the ball over 50% of the time the previous 3 weeks and people still complained about LaFleur.
We also had Breece Hall in those games. Running the ball with MC and Robinson isn't going to be nearly as effective. That's where, ideally, you would like your young #2 overall pick QB to step it up a little bit and shoulder more of the load.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 05:56:22 PM
We also had Breece Hall in those games. Running the ball with MC and Robinson isn't going to be nearly as effective. That's where, ideally, you would like your young #2 overall pick QB to step it up a little bit and shoulder more of the load.
Neither have his skill set. Robinson lacks that second gear and Carter definitely doesn't have his vision. Not having Breece Hall makes it much more difficult to hide our passing problems.
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2022, 05:59:18 PM
We have to make teams continue to respect our running game if we're going to give the passing game, and Zach, a chance to succeed.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 06:03:56 PM
Against NE Robinson averaged 3.4 yards per carry, and Carter averaged 3.71. I realise it's not this simple in the real world, but math says that if we run the ball three times we will get a first down.The math also says we averaged 7.8 yards per dropback. Plays were there to be made, and we made some. But the few bad plays outweighed the good plays. If Zach can clean things up, the offense can be successful throwing through the air. But we've been saying this for 1.5 years now. He has another half-season to start cleaning things up before we have difficult decisions to make this offseason.
We have to make teams continue to respect our running game if we're going to give the passing game, and Zach, a chance to succeed.
Post by: Coach K on November 01, 2022, 09:53:05 PM
https://twitter.com/JGrayJets/status/1587289195038523392?t=bHWkTBoWY1ERyesnXb-Oug&s=19NFL > Mountain West or wtfever indie or whatever they're doing with conferences now lol
The points made in the reddit should calm people down.
Theyre valid points but sometimes Zach needs to scramble or throw it away
The tap dancing after your 3rd tackle evasion and backpedal throwing is retarded no matter which way you slice it
It's MLF job to do better with playcalling but literally 0 excuse for a few of ybose back breaking snaps . 18 starts but the mistakes don't take 18 starts to know it's bad football .
That being said we had most of our success on excrement I've been screaming Lafleur do. Namely quick slants ins and drags .
Yet we for some reason have a fascination with passing 3rd and short and coming out tbe gate with long developing pass plays .
Either way I'm a broken record . Everyone's to blame and everyone needs to get better or this carriage will become a pumpkin again quick
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 02, 2022, 07:42:46 AM
https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/90655/with-jets-in-win-now-mode-heres-how-to-get-zach-wilson-on-track (https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/90655/with-jets-in-win-now-mode-heres-how-to-get-zach-wilson-on-track)
Post by: Miamipuck on November 02, 2022, 10:15:19 AM
Dick with a shockingly non-troll article about Wilson.
https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/90655/with-jets-in-win-now-mode-heres-how-to-get-zach-wilson-on-track (https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/90655/with-jets-in-win-now-mode-heres-how-to-get-zach-wilson-on-track)
Read it and Dick, still can't help himself. Though for him it wasn't overly trolly. He had to throw in at least a few dickish comments.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2022, 10:16:33 AM
I think we're better than anyone expected. We can compete for a playoff spot but if we miss, will anyone really be surprised?
Post by: Miamipuck on November 02, 2022, 10:17:10 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2022, 10:18:59 AM
Are we really in win-now mode?
I think we're better than anyone expected. We can compete for a playoff spot but if we miss, will anyone really be surprised?
I still think we're a .500 team....until Zach/MLF get on the same page.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2022, 10:23:01 AM
The Rams are in win-now mode.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 02, 2022, 10:36:30 AM
Read it and Dick, still can't help himself. Though for him it wasn't overly trolly. He had to throw in at least a few dickish comments.
There's a reason we don't call him Rich.
Are we really in win-now mode?
I think we're better than anyone expected. We can compete for a playoff spot but if we miss, will anyone really be surprised?
Definitely not in win-now mode.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2022, 10:40:37 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2022, 10:56:59 AM
The Jets kept it a bean with a blockbuster Jacob Martin trade! Dem boyz in Win-Now mode or sum - DJ Bien-Aime
i hate that turd
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 02, 2022, 11:18:30 AM
But we aren't in any sort of desperation where we have to win now or there will be a major overhaul in the FO/staff. The staff and FO isn't going anywhere. And while the defense is good enough to win a lot in the short term, the offense certainly is not.
And the only way the offense can become good enough to win big in the short term is if the light goes on for Zach. So benching Zach makes no sense to me without a better option. Even with all of Zach's issues, he's got a better QBR than Flacco, and we are 4-1 with him as a starter. Wins and losses are sometimes overrated for QBs, but we have shown we can win with him, even if we aren't winning because of him.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2022, 11:52:25 AM
Every team should be in win-now mode because you should always want to win...
to me, win-now mode has always meant that a team is all in with trade assets depleted and cap spent
Mike Tannenbaum was always in win-now mode
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 02, 2022, 12:06:34 PM
Every team should be in win-now mode because you should always want to win...
That's not what that phrase means, and I feel like you know that.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 02, 2022, 12:32:31 PM
That's not what that phrase means, and I feel like you know that.I think there's levels to it.
We're more in win-now mode this year than we have been in a while, but we certainly aren't like the 2021 Rams or the 2010 Jets in terms of going all in on veterans and trading picks for instant help.
I don't think "win-now mode" should affect much decision making. Every team should be trying to win now until it's clear that they can't.
Example: if Jermaine Johnson is our 5th-best edge rusher, he shouldn't play a ton of snaps if we're trying to win. But if we're 5-10, there is no reason to play Vinny Curry over Jermaine Johnson. (not saying JJ is 5th, just making an example)
Post by: Miamipuck on November 02, 2022, 01:06:37 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2022, 08:51:32 AM
Quote
Quite obviously, Wilson isn't a good quarterback when under pressure -- and that's putting it kindly. His completion rate is 14.6% (6-for-41), the lowest for any quarterback since ESPN began tracking the stat in 2009. Four of his five interceptions, including all three Sunday, came under duress.
From the article above, that is a horrible horrible statistic about Zach
Even if you put some blame on him the OL, the worst ever since they started recording a statistic 13 years ago? Yikes
Post by: Jumbo on November 03, 2022, 12:38:25 PM
Quote
Zach Wilson's time-to-throw is a HUGE red flag
not only is he WORSE in 2022 than 2021
he has the longest time-to-throw in the NFL
and his efficiency when holding onto the ball is the WORST of ANY QB in ANY season since AT LEAST 2000
Warren Sharp may look like a pedo, but he does have a point here.
Unfortunately, he also does not know football.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2022, 12:43:29 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2022, 01:02:24 PM
There were so many open receivers on Sunday on film that Zach just ignored. We had drag routes wide open over the middle of the field all game. There were plenty of times where Zach even looked at open receivers and held onto the ball for whatever reason.
Sure, he does a good job escaping pressure sometimes and throwing the ball away (even if his throwaways are sometimes intercepted). But he also sometimes escapes when he doesn't need to, drifts to the sideline, cuts the field off, and then he has nowhere to go with it. And even then, sometimes he just chucks it up for grabs.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2022, 01:03:56 PM
Average time to throw is exactly what it says
Kind of like win-now mode
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2022, 01:05:51 PM
There were plenty of times where Zach even looked at open receivers
buddy, you don't know where he's looking
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 03, 2022, 01:07:20 PM
Does "longest time to throw" include the time he buys for himself?
Does it actually matter? Any time he holds the ball long enough to start dodging defenders it's usually a bad play.
If he rolls out it's hit or miss but when he keeps backpedaling dodging and backpedaling and dodging the best case scenario is that it hits the ground.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2022, 01:08:53 PM
buddy, you don't know where he's lookingNeither does Zach.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2022, 01:09:27 PM
Does it actually matter? Any time he holds the ball long enough to start dodging defenders it's usually a bad play.Zach is the only QB in the NFL who has to avoid the pass rush.
If he rolls out it's hit or miss but when he keeps backpedaling dodging and backpedaling and dodging the best case scenario is that it hits the ground.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2022, 01:10:09 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2022, 01:11:46 PM
Does it actually matter? Any time he holds the ball long enough to start dodging defenders it's usually a bad play.
If he rolls out it's hit or miss but when he keeps backpedaling dodging and backpedaling and dodging the best case scenario is that it hits the ground.
It's bad football that's not being coached out of him. He's played fewer snaps that a lot of those guys and he extends a ton of plays.
I just think it's a little premature to call him the worst since whenever when he's only played five games. Let is play out.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2022, 01:12:29 PM
It's bad football.Finally, we agree.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 03, 2022, 01:16:41 PM
It's bad football that's not being coached out of him. He's played fewer snaps that a lot of those guys and he extends a ton of plays.
I just think it's a little premature to call him the worst since whenever when he's only played five games. Let is play out.
He's played 18 in this offense. He might learn to stop doing that but he also might be an idiot.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2022, 01:27:45 PM
He's played 18 in this offense. He might learn to stop doing that but he also might be an idiot.
Not to start this up again, but this offense isn't doing him any favors.
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2022, 01:35:54 PM
If Zach fails with another OC...then the seats Saleh/JD are sitting on will heat up.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2022, 01:38:26 PM
The offensive staff will get turfed long before they send Zach packing. This isn't a 3rd round pick we're dealing with (before Mack comes in asking why Zach is made of teflon).
If Zach fails with another OC...then the seats Saleh/JD are sitting on will heat up.
I think if he doesn't make a jump, Douglas will look to bring in a veteran to compete with him.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2022, 04:42:38 PM
The offensive staff will get turfed long before they send Zach packing. This isn't a 3rd round pick we're dealing with (before Mack comes in asking why Zach is made of teflon).
If Zach fails with another OC...then the seats Saleh/JD are sitting on will heat up.
I think overall JD has done a very good job.
Obviously the Zach Wilson pick was a horrible horrible freaking move, but I think everything else he's done around it has probably earned him a second contract. I initially thought he'd live and die by Zach, but I'm very happy with his moves. Injuries have derailed a chunk of it, but JD is worth hanging onto. Of course it's easy to be a homer on JD when you look at our rookies thus year
Saleh and MLF may need to be on the hot seat, but I've honestly been pretty happy with them as well. I think Zach is the dead weight, but we'll know better when he has some legit competition next year
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2022, 04:47:59 PM
Obviously the Zach Wilson pick was a horrible horrible freaking move
lol
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 03, 2022, 04:52:53 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2022, 04:59:43 PM
dcm is my primary source of optimism regarding Zach
Hackenberg was a better pick than Zach Wilson
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2022, 05:08:11 PM
Hackenberg was a better pick than Zach WilsonAre you trying to get modded?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2022, 05:52:11 PM
I think overall JD has done a very good job.If Zach fails, I agree that Douglas has done enough to survive a bad quarterback pick. Saleh has also shown enough where he's not on the hot seat regardless.
Obviously the Zach Wilson pick was a horrible horrible freaking move, but I think everything else he's done around it has probably earned him a second contract. I initially thought he'd live and die by Zach, but I'm very happy with his moves. Injuries have derailed a chunk of it, but JD is worth hanging onto. Of course it's easy to be a homer on JD when you look at our rookies thus year
Saleh and MLF may need to be on the hot seat, but I've honestly been pretty happy with them as well. I think Zach is the dead weight, but we'll know better when he has some legit competition next year
I would be very surprised if Saleh did anything with LaFleur after the season. LaFleur is his boy, and he's done a good job despite awful QB play. Unless you think LaFleur has done a terrible job teaching and developing Wilson, which is not something we would be able to know, I don't see how LaFleur is gone after this year.
LaFleur has shown he can scheme open receivers. He can't force Zach to throw them the ball. He can tell Zach to stay in the pocket, run the offense, and not panic at the first sign of trouble, but he can't force Zach to actually do it. Maybe he's doing a terrible job training Wilson behind the scenes, but maybe Wilson is just stubborn and bad.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 03, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
buddy, you don't know where he's looking
Is your contention that he can't see open WRs?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2022, 06:05:25 PM
Is your contention that he can't see open WRs?Maybe his eyes are just closed when his face is pointed a certain direction.
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2022, 06:14:30 PM
Maybe his eyes are just closed when his face is pointed a certain direction.Maybe former Yankee Chris Carter is our QB coach.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2022, 06:50:47 PM
Is your contention that he can't see open WRs?
He might be rolling left and his eyes might be locked on the right hash.
No one knows what he’s looking at.
It’s why the Nania breakdown is stupid. We don’t know his reads or his read progressions.
He clearly isn’t seeing the field well and he’s not moving from 1-2 but I don’t think 2 is there most of the time for him.
Watching All-22 and screaming “that guy is open” is a waste of time. QBs don’t see the entire field.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 03, 2022, 08:49:28 PM
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2022, 08:50:22 PM
Zach needs to be better at using his QB vision coneMy least favorite Madden concept ever.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 04, 2022, 01:54:33 PM
Zach needs to be better at using his QB vision cone
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fgugwh1XEAMjDGo?format=jpg&name=large)
How did he not make this incredibly easy throw across his body to the opposite hash?
Michael Nania wants to know.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 04, 2022, 02:21:09 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 04, 2022, 02:29:09 PM
I don't really know what we're arguing about anymore. Zach was atrocious against the Patriots. Everyone agrees.
There were plenty of open receivers he missed. Even if you cherry pick one play where Nania might have had a weird read on the play, there were many easier throws available that he missed on several plays. If you want to dunk on Nania so we don't have to face the facts that Zach has been extremely underwhelming through 18 games, more power to you.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 04, 2022, 02:36:23 PM
Even if you cherry pick one play where Nania might have had a weird read on the play
Stop dick riding
He tweeted this screenshot. No one went looking for it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 04, 2022, 03:06:56 PM
I would definitely not trust him for that kind of content.
Post by: Johnny English on November 04, 2022, 03:16:17 PM
https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-defends-zach-wilson-amid-jets-qb-struggles-week-9
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 04, 2022, 03:24:56 PM
This is going to confuse the freak out of Heismanberg:
https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-defends-zach-wilson-amid-jets-qb-struggles-week-9
Imagine if they became friends.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 04, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
Stop dick ridingThe biggest Zach Wilson dickrider on the board calling other people dickriders is cute.
He tweeted this screenshot. No one went looking for it.
I didn't see the screenshot on his Twitter. I just shared the blog I viewed, mostly for the video clips. I preferred Connor Rogers' breakdown personally, but that's on Patreon so it is paywalled.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 04, 2022, 04:09:08 PM
I dont want Zach benched at all, but he has the rest of the season to show why we shouldn't bring in another QB to either compete with or replace him. He was a late bloomer in college and maybe he is one in the NFL. When he gets the ball out and his first read is there, he looks good. His development is also sped up because the rest of this team is good to win now, and we will have to pay a lot of these guys in a few years, so the time is now to take advantage of our young guys on cheap deals.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 04, 2022, 04:10:35 PM
This is going to confuse the freak out of Heismanberg:
https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-defends-zach-wilson-amid-jets-qb-struggles-week-9
The Curse of Josh Allen
Post by: Heismanberg on November 04, 2022, 04:42:20 PM
Post by: delavan on November 04, 2022, 06:39:08 PM
Hackenberg was a better pick than Zach WilsonWhich Hackenberg was that?
Against the Eagles?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW5pDHi8GPI
or,
with the Eagles?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKodgyzw4Ro
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 04, 2022, 09:24:17 PM
And he missed the entire preseason of his sophomore year
The playcalling is brutal. MLF hasn't been good, regardless of QB play. I'm giving Zach time before I give up on him
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 05, 2022, 12:11:33 AM
I'm not trying to be anti-Zach but it is hard when all of his shortcomings are just chalked up to LaFleur being bad. That isn't what I see when I watch the games. I watched the All 22 for this game. There were some good moments but there were a lot of bad moments.
I dont want Zach benched at all, but he has the rest of the season to show why we shouldn't bring in another QB to either compete with or replace him. He was a late bloomer in college and maybe he is one in the NFL. When he gets the ball out and his first read is there, he looks good. His development is also sped up because the rest of this team is good to win now, and we will have to pay a lot of these guys in a few years, so the time is now to take advantage of our young guys on cheap deals.
I’m not as active as usual lately, but I haven’t really seen anyone here defend Zach or say he’s been good the last 3 games. (Let’s all please remember he was good/decent his first 2 games back)
Only thing you can really say is that there’s been some deflection to the OC, OL, and receivers, in that order.
We’ve played some really good defenses recently and he has looked like excrement under pressure. Need the OL to step up and the OC to call some quicker developing plays.
I think everyone agrees Zach needs to play a lot better. We’ve been a good team this year (wtf) and he’s clearly been the weakest link
Post by: dcm1602 on November 05, 2022, 07:22:41 AM
Which Hackenberg was that?
Against the Eagles?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW5pDHi8GPI
or,
with the Eagles?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKodgyzw4Ro
Better pick not a better player
I'll take a 2nd round pick that literally never played over a 2nd overall pick ever never plays good.
Maybe if he works real hard he'll get his completion percentage over 55%
Post by: dcm1602 on November 05, 2022, 07:26:08 AM
I’m not as active as usual lately, but I haven’t really seen anyone here defend Zach or say he’s been good the last 3 games. (Let’s all please remember he was good/decent his first 2 games back)
Only thing you can really say is that there’s been some deflection to the OC, OL, and receivers, in that order.
We’ve played some really good defenses recently and he has looked like excrement under pressure. Need the OL to step up and the OC to call some quicker developing plays.
I think everyone agrees Zach needs to play a lot better. We’ve been a good team this year (wtf) and he’s clearly been the weakest link
That first game back he had a 50% completion percentage and more picks than TDS plus his lowest QB rating of the season
Iirc Zach had a great final drive or something, but otherwise was vintage Zach Wilson.
Zachs only good game was against Miami mostly because Hall went God mode and the other team was forced to basically use a place holder at QB.
Post by: MBGreen on November 05, 2022, 08:17:58 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 05, 2022, 02:54:43 PM
TIL dcm doesn't watch the games
Apparently neither does half this board
I'm surprised people on here aren't still comparing him to Mahomes
But today's nfl is designed for you to be completing like 70-80% of your passes
Zachs putting up Tebow numbers without the big plays
Post by: MBGreen on November 06, 2022, 06:53:24 AM
Apparently neither does half this boardNo..it's just you
I'm surprised people on here aren't still comparing him to Mahomes
But today's nfl is designed for you to be completing like 70-80% of your passes
Zachs putting up Tebow numbers without the big plays
Post by: Heismanberg on November 06, 2022, 07:24:52 AM
No..it's just you
Take out the big plays and all you have are the bad ones!
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 06, 2022, 09:32:50 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 06, 2022, 09:39:43 AM
Our "organizational health" is a 3, yet the Jags' is a 9? Give me a break.
Recycling through this thread, didn't anyone every bother to remind Conor Orr what an epically bad take this was?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2022, 03:35:09 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 06, 2022, 03:36:59 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2022, 03:39:09 PM
This week: Good.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 06, 2022, 03:59:24 PM
6 starts this season, this was his 4th with no picks.
19 starts overall and I believe he has 10 without an interception
Honestly when he’s not playing the god damn Patriots he has done a very good job keeping track of the ball
Post by: Heismanberg on November 06, 2022, 04:01:48 PM
He was locked in.
Post by: MBGreen on November 06, 2022, 04:03:06 PM
Didn't expect that back in week 1
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2022, 05:53:00 PM
Wilson got the ball out quickly and good things happened.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 07, 2022, 01:46:45 AM
2.31 seconds per pass. By far the fastest of his career.
Wilson got the ball out quickly and good things happened.
IIRC he only had one of those rolling backwards / dancing plays, huge upgrade.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2022, 02:01:03 AM
And step up when you're in trouble, don't drift back. Step up, and be prepared to run if you have to.
He was good today. The two missed throws on 3rd down were annoying, but he had his best completion percentage, an actual positive CPOE, and no turnovers. Plus, he ran in key spots.
Post by: Badger on November 07, 2022, 04:42:15 AM
This was a big step for Wilson IMO. The seconds per pass thing is real. Whether it's scheme or him being more decisive or players getting more separation or whatever, we need to get him to consistently get the ball out quickly.*1 turnover
And step up when you're in trouble, don't drift back. Step up, and be prepared to run if you have to.
He was good today. The two missed throws on 3rd down were annoying, but he had his best completion percentage, an actual positive CPOE, and no turnovers. Plus, he ran in key spots.
Post by: insanity on November 07, 2022, 06:12:51 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2022, 06:41:00 AM
IIRC he only had one of those rolling backwards / dancing plays, huge upgrade.
Yea, in the first half. He hit the end of his drop back and just...kept...going.
But he also figured out how to scramble for a first when he has a wide open field ahead of him, which was nice.
Post by: Badger on November 10, 2022, 09:46:11 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 03:13:29 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 03:13:57 PM
What is Zach Wilson good at?
nothing right now
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:14:31 PM
What is Zach Wilson good at?
Pass defense.
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 03:14:46 PM
What is Zach Wilson good at?
He's pretty good at hitting his favorite target, Devin McCourty, right in the hands
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 03:14:47 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2022, 03:16:06 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 03:17:30 PM
I hate to say but out of Darnold, Sanchez, Geno and Wilson, Wilson is by far the worst of the bunch, probably the worst starting QB in the league.
Made it more accurate
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:17:56 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 03:19:03 PM
Of course he has to fail with one of the worst QB classes in the past 10 years coming up.
we aren't drafting another QB in 2023
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 03:19:17 PM
Of course he has to fail with one of the worst QB classes in the past 10 years coming up.
Not like we're going to be in position to grab one without trading up anyway.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 03:19:46 PM
Of course he has to fail with one of the worst QB classes in the past 10 years coming up.
I don't think they ditch him after two years. I do think it's clear we need a viable veteran alternative.
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 03:20:07 PM
I hate to say but out of Darnold, Sanchez and Wilson, Wilson might be the worst of the three, possibly the worst starting QB in the league.
Darnold had complete garbage around him compared to Zach and put up similar if not better passing numbers. Sanchez has similar numbers to Wilson but in a less pass friendly environment.
Wilson is the worst of the bunch.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 03:22:15 PM
Of course he has to fail with one of the worst QB classes in the past 10 years coming up.
At 6-4 were not in the position for any fancy QBs in the draft
There's some potentially intriguing options out there. Potentially Baker Mayfield, Jimmy G, Aaron Rodgers, Minshew, Brady, Darnold
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 03:23:11 PM
Darnold had complete garbage around him compared to Zach and put up similar if not better passing numbers. Sanchez has similar numbers to Wilson but in a less pass friendly environment.Zach Bollinger.
Wilson is the worst of the bunch.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:25:49 PM
At 6-4 were not in the position for any fancy QBs in the draft
There's some potentially intriguing options out there. Potentially Baker Mayfield, Jimmy G, Aaron Rodgers, Minshew, Brady, Darnold
You made a good point with the first sentence and then you had to ruin it as hard as possible, didn't you?
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 03:26:18 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 03:27:24 PM
You made a good point with the first sentence and then you had to ruin it as hard as possible, didn't you?
Not saying they're all realistic targets for us.
Like there's 0 chance of a Darnold reunion, but he can fill a need for another team making the QB market less competitive.
Rodgers and Jimmy G could be aggressive win now moves.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:27:39 PM
Trade for Rodgers or go after Lamar. The time to capitalize on the window we have with this team is ticking quickly.
(https://i.imgflip.com/c74up.jpg?a463440)
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 03:28:15 PM
Trade for Rodgers or go after Lamar. The time to capitalize on the window we have with this team is ticking quickly.Lamar ain't happening, but it would be nice.
Agree though. The window is the next 2 years. Gotta take advantage, and becoming increasingly clear Zach probably isn't the guy.
Again, I give him all season, but it's trending bad, and it's been trending bad.
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 03:28:53 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 03:29:08 PM
You made a good point with the first sentence and then you had to ruin it as hard as possible, didn't you?What kind of veteran QB do you want if the names DCM and Jumbo said don't work for you?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 03:30:06 PM
Jimmy G, Gardner Minshew, and Jacoby Brissett are options. We would have won today with any of them.I thought we lost to Pittsburgh with Flacco/White instead of Zach, and we beat New England (game 1) with Flacco/White over Zach. Not sure Flacco/White move the ball much today either, but hard to be much worse.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
Jackson would be the ideal starter but it's probably the least likely outcome.
Rodgers is washed, there's no reason to go and take on the remaining portions of that contract.
The one thing I know about Minshew is that the locker room hated him.
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2022, 03:33:18 PM
Jimmy G and Brissett are probably the best stop gap options but we're guaranteed to be looking at a mid-range season at best.Maybe GB will also give us Watson too, to be nice.
Jackson would be the ideal starter but it's probably the least likely outcome.
Rodgers is washed, there's no reason to go and take on the remaining portions of that contract.
The one thing I know about Minshew is that the locker room hated him.
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 03:33:55 PM
What kind of veteran QB do you want if the names DCM and Jumbo said don't work for you?
He suggested Tom Brady was an option, he deserves flames.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 03:34:01 PM
What is Zach Wilson good at?Banging your mom
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 03:34:31 PM
Jimmy G and Brissett are probably the best stop gap options but we're guaranteed to be looking at a mid-range season at best.
Jackson would be the ideal starter but it's probably the least likely outcome.
Rodgers is washed, there's no reason to go and take on the remaining portions of that contract.
The one thing I know about Minshew is that the locker room hated him.
Rodgers is washed but his cap hit the next 2 years would not be horrible.
You're talking 20 ish million a year.
Obviously after those 2 years there's 0 chance of keeping him.
Assuming the Packers want to dump him to save cap. And we want a stopgap who can maximize our window.
A conditional 4th thst can go up to a 3rd with 20 million a year for 2 years, isn't the worst move
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 03:35:00 PM
The one thing I know about Minshew is that the locker room hated him.
I didn't know that. I thought he was well-liked.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:35:33 PM
He suggested Tom Brady was an option, he deserves flames.
That, Darnold and Mayfield.
I was very specific with my criticism of Jumbo.
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 03:37:37 PM
Jimmy G and Brissett are probably the best stop gap options but we're guaranteed to be looking at a mid-range season at best.
Jackson would be the ideal starter but it's probably the least likely outcome.
Rodgers is washed, there's no reason to go and take on the remaining portions of that contract.
The one thing I know about Minshew is that the locker room hated him.
If you trade for Rodgers the cap hit isn't awful and he's cuttable after a couple of years. I also don't think it's so obvious that he's washed, he's looked decent the last couple of games with Watson playing well. He would have something similar with Wilson here.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:37:57 PM
I didn't know that. I thought he was well-liked.
They apparently got tired of him. Don't know if he's a different player or not.
Rodgers is washed but his cap hit the next 2 years would not be horrible.
You're talking 20 ish million a year.
Obviously after those 2 years there's 0 chance of keeping him.
Assuming the Packers want to dump him to save cap. And we want a stopgap who can maximize our window.
A conditional 4th thst can go up to a 3rd with 20 million a year for 2 years, isn't the worst move
You have to be able to see the problem there. Like, you really have to be able to do this if you can read.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 03:38:46 PM
They apparently got tired of him. Don't know if he's a different player or not.
You have to be able to see the problem there. Like, you really have to be able to do this if you can read.
What happened the last year Peyton Manning was washed?
Rodgers is a risk. This is also a guy who was a legit MVP candidate the last 2 years
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 03:41:25 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:43:59 PM
Good thing Saleh brought LaFleur with him instead of McDaniels
Imagine our OC getting hired as the HC of the Dolphins after one season.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 03:44:52 PM
Good thing Saleh brought LaFleur with him instead of McDanielsHe wanted McDaniels...the Niners blocked him
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 03:45:19 PM
Imagine our OC getting hired as the HC of the Dolphins after one season.Whatever chain of events prevents Lafluer from wcer having touched Zach Wilson
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 03:45:46 PM
He wanted McDaniels...the Niners blocked himI stand corrected
Well we all agree Lafluer sucks
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 03:49:13 PM
Passer rating: 72.6 (32nd)
Completion Percentage: 55.6% (33rd)
Pass touchdowns to Interception ratio: 4-5 (31st)
Pass Touchdowns per attempt: 2.1% (t-31st)
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 03:50:53 PM
Wilson ranks out of 33 qualified QBs:Maybe his OC should help him out instead of calling the same crap every week.
Passer rating: 72.6 (32nd)
Completion Percentage: 55.6% (33rd)
Pass touchdowns to Interception ratio: 4-5 (31st)
Pass Touchdowns per attempt: 2.1% (t-31st)
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 03:52:20 PM
look at Mac Jones today
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 03:52:55 PM
@Connor_J_Hughes
Zach Wilson says it was “windy as hell” out on field. Says #Patriots weren’t throwing deep, either. #Jets
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 04:01:30 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 04:02:28 PM
I am all in on the idea of Rodgers next season, although he might be a bit sick of the Lafleur family by now.
we already did that excrement with Favre
it doesn't need to happen again
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 04:02:57 PM
preferably Carr because that means that LaFleur is gone
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 04:03:43 PM
Maybe his OC should help him out instead of calling the same crap every week.
He can't even hit wide receivers who are standing still behind the line of scrimmage with any consistency.
LaFleur is nowhere near as bad at his job as Zach is at his.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:04:09 PM
He can't even hit wide receivers who are standing still behind the line of scrimmage with any consistency.Incorrect
LaFleur is nowhere near as bad at his job as Zach is at his.
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 04:04:20 PM
we already did that excrement with Favre
it doesn't need to happen again
freak Favre but that season could have worked out if he didn't need his stupid iron man streak
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:04:36 PM
we already did that excrement with FavreFavre nearly worked. He was very good for most of 2008 until he got hurt. He was very good in 2009. He fell apart in 2010. If he stayed healthy in 2008, we might have won the Super Bowl.
it doesn't need to happen again
Quite frankly, there is no good answer at QB unless Zach turns it around, which seems increasingly unlikely.
We have an elite defense. We are wasting it with a terrible offense. If we can squeeze out a year or two out of a veteran, we can win big in the short term.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:05:18 PM
If we go after a vet, it needs to be Jimmy G or Derek CarrI've never been a big Carr fan, but that's probably the best realistic name.
preferably Carr because that means that LaFleur is gone
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 04:05:30 PM
He can't even hit wide receivers who are standing still behind the line of scrimmage with any consistency.
LaFleur is nowhere near as bad at his job as Zach is at his.
someone asked what does Zach do well which is a fair question
What does Mike LaFleur do well?
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 04:06:01 PM
LaFleur is nowhere near as bad at his job as Zach is at his.
It's close. Neither has any business being in this business.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 04:08:31 PM
Sure he sounds nice, but I don't think it's an option
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 04:09:01 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:09:46 PM
someone asked what does Zach do well which is a fair questionHe schemed up enough open receivers for Mike White to throw for 400+ yards in a win last season, and to have White and Josh Johnson put up quality games against the Colts last season. We've had some good schemed plays this season. We are among the NFL league leaders in explosive plays, which scheme helped create.
What does Mike LaFleur do well?
Today was a trainwreck though. Overall, I think he's OK, and I think he's saddled by having awful QB play.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:10:25 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:14:38 PM
I'm more concerned with Zach's lack of accountability at his presser.https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1594446441287540736
Shitty answer IMO. Take some responsibility.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 04:15:01 PM
Carr is also the most likely to still be with his team next year
false
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 04:15:42 PM
false
Yeah that team is getting nuked.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:15:52 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 04:16:57 PM
We're actually a really good landing spot for him if he has his choice because we have an elite defense and a young receiver very similar to Davante Adams.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 04:19:04 PM
Davante Adams.
How's that working out for him?
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 04:21:10 PM
They likely have a top three pick. They are taking a QB with that pick and cutting Carr to get the cap space back.I'd take him in a heartbeat and can LaFleur
We're actually a really good landing spot for him if he has his choice because we have an elite defense and a young receiver very similar to Davante Adams.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 04:21:38 PM
we already did that excrement with Favre
it doesn't need to happen again
Also this
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 04:21:50 PM
If the Raiders season keeps spiraling, Carr has a good chance of being gone. Coach is likely staying, which means QB is scapegoat.
Josh McDaniels is the most likely to get rid of his QB well.
Wouldn't love Carr but he's solid.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:23:51 PM
We're a really good landing spot for any veteran QB because we have an elite defense. Any QB worth a damn has to look at that defense and think they can win. And we have a good young weapon in GWilson.
Like I said, I've never been a huge Carr fan. But if you had Derek Carr on the Jets right now, we're in 1st place and a Super Bowl contender right now.
There's also Geno, who would also make a ton of sense if he hit the market, as long as you ignore his history here.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 04:24:12 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 04:25:38 PM
There's also Geno, who would also make a ton of sense if he hit the market, as long as you ignore his history here.
He'll say something stupid and Clemmons will tear his spine out like the Predator.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 04:28:41 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:31:05 PM
I'd say it's a 80% MLF 20%WILSON split far as culpability for why this offense can't do a damn thing when it matters
I'm with you here. 100% agree with this.
The only thing that will change my mind is if Zach completely fails under a new OC.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:33:05 PM
I'd say it's a 80% MLF 20%WILSON split far as culpability for why this offense can't do a damn thing when it mattersI probably flip it. But it's hard to know without watching more film.
In the first NE game, I thought LaFleur didn't do a great job, then I watched it again later, and there were guys there for Zach all game that he ignored.
Not sure about today.
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 04:40:36 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 04:40:53 PM
I'd say it's a 80% MLF 20%WILSON split far as culpability for why this offense can't do a damn thing when it matters
How many guys in the backfield does Wilson have to wildly miss to think he's the biggest problem?
This guy has literally no freaking clue what he's doing.
I think it's hard to accurately gage MLFs ability to coach while you have a guy that could get outplayed by a wildcat QB.
I wouldn't absolve MLF as 2 yards is 2 yards, but anyone who thinks Wilson isn't the biggest problem on this team is on drugs.
We saw the same freaking excrement with people blaming the coaches for Sanchez sucking, blaming the coaches for Darnold sucking, and blaming the coaches for Wilson sucking
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 04:47:23 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 04:49:31 PM
Mike LaFleur got excellent games out of Mike White, Joe Flacco, and Josh Johnson: bad quarterbacks. That's the point I can't get past. I've seen him call really good games. I've never seen Zach Wilson play a really good game.
Yeah. I don't give a excrement about MLF, but outside of the odd throw - and no one has ever doubted his arm talent - Wilson has done nothing yet to demonstrate that he's anywhere close to being worth his draft position.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:50:00 PM
Mike LaFleur got excellent games out of Mike White, Joe Flacco, and Josh Johnson: bad quarterbacks. That's the point I can't get past. I've seen him call really good games. I've never seen Zach Wilson play a really good game.
freak it...unleash the Streveler. if our OC can coach below average QBs, let's freaking go.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:50:57 PM
Mike LaFleur got excellent games out of Mike White, Joe Flacco, and Josh Johnson: bad quarterbacks. That's the point I can't get past. I've seen him call really good games. I've never seen Zach Wilson play a really good game.The offense looks completely different every time Zach Wilson comes in. When Flacco is here, we get the ball out quickly all the time. It wasn't always productive, but it was competent. When White plays, the ball comes out quickly, and we moved the ball decently. He just turns the ball over a lot.
When Wilson plays, he holds onto the ball, creates pressure out of thin air, doesn't know how to read a defense, and disaster happens. He has talent, but there are a ton of good athletes with arm strength.
Wilson talks about the wind making things hard. But Mac sets a career-high in completion percentage in the same wind.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:52:09 PM
Yeah. I don't give a excrement about MLF, but outside of the odd throw - and no one has ever doubted his arm talent - Wilson has done nothing yet to demonstrate that he's anywhere close to being worth his draft position.There are lots of guys out there who are athletic with arm talent. Justin Fields is a better athlete and has similar arm talent. We picked Wilson over him because we thought he could get the ball out quickly and run the offense. He can't run the offense at all and doesn't throw it quickly.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 04:54:24 PM
How many guys in the backfield does Wilson have to wildly miss to think he's the biggest problem?MLF refuses to call drags, slants . Anything utilizing the skillets of players. Even a deep shot to Mims? Nah a damn screen.
This guy has literally no freaking clue what he's doing.
I think it's hard to accurately gage MLFs ability to coach while you have a guy that could get outplayed by a wildcat QB.
I wouldn't absolve MLF as 2 yards is 2 yards, but anyone who thinks Wilson isn't the biggest problem on this team is on drugs.
We saw the same freaking excrement with people blaming the coaches for Sanchez sucking, blaming the coaches for Darnold sucking, and blaming the coaches for Wilson sucking
He usually runs when we should pass and vice versa . He was playing on easy mode with Breece hall and anyone could've looked competent with that setup
There's a very weird thing with him putting both of our 2nd rnd pick WRs in the doghouse
How many empty backfield calls will we do on 3rd down like a middle schooler playing madden
The utter lack of gameplan adjustment is freaking mind boggling
This guy slams his head against the wall and continues to give Zach 5 and 7 step drops with concepts putting multiple WRs in the same zone of tbe entire field
You're calling toss plays to a power runner coming off a leg injury last yr
You're calling WR screens to midgets
This doesn't mean Zach doesn't have clear deficiencies .
But MLF is doing a lot to compound them instead of masking or fixing them
He had one of his best games vs Buffalo then followed it up after the bye with a total lack of creativity or adaptability to what was thrown at him
The OL injuries are not to be overlooked
But if you're going to give that excuse to MLF you have to give it to Zach. And all things I'm saying still stand against MLF
I'm all for getting Jimmy G or Carr
This defense is too good to waste so we can either give Zach a 3rd season with e new OC or nuke the QB room and offensive staff for all I care
But I'm not budging on tbe fact that MLF is the definition of 1 step forward 2 steps back.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 04:55:27 PM
Then he threw it out the window this week
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 04:56:08 PM
But like I said barring s major turn around I'm not happy with either
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 04:57:24 PM
Mike LaFleur got excellent games out of Mike White, Joe Flacco, and Josh Johnson: bad quarterbacks. That's the point I can't get past. I've seen him call really good games. I've never seen Zach Wilson play a really good game.
Josh Johnson put up stats in garbage time
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:59:11 PM
MLF refuses to call drags, slants . Anything utilizing the skillets of players. Even a deep shot to Mims? Nah a damn screen.Last Patriots game, we ran a million drag routes. We had guys open all day on drag routes that Zach would ignore.
He usually runs when we should pass and vice versa . He was playing on easy mode with Breece hall and anyone could've looked competent with that setup
There's a very weird thing with him putting both of our 2nd rnd pick WRs in the doghouse
How many empty backfield calls will we do on 3rd down like a middle schooler playing madden
The utter lack of gameplan adjustment is freaking mind boggling
This guy slams his head against the wall and continues to give Zach 5 and 7 step drops with concepts putting multiple WRs in the same zone of tbe entire field
You're calling toss plays to a power runner coming off a leg injury last yr
You're calling WR screens to midgets
This doesn't mean Zach doesn't have clear deficiencies .
But MLF is doing a lot to compound them instead of masking or fixing them
He had one of his best games vs Buffalo then followed it up after the bye with a total lack of creativity or adaptability to what was thrown at him
The OL injuries are not to be overlooked
But if you're going to give that excuse to MLF you have to give it to Zach. And all things I'm saying still stand against MLF
I'm all for getting Jimmy G or Carr
This defense is too good to waste so we can either give Zach a 3rd season with e new OC or nuke the QB room and offensive staff for all I care
But I'm not budging on tbe fact that MLF is the definition of 1 step forward 2 steps back.
The deep drops, empty backfields, and 3rd-down play calls are all valid criticisms though.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 05:02:52 PM
Last Patriots game, we ran a million drag routes. We had guys open all day on drag routes that Zach would ignore.I mean in general overall this season. But yeah funny how zach put up numbers when we did though
The deep drops, empty backfields, and 3rd-down play calls are all valid criticisms though.
The fact I still see Elijah more playing outside makes 0 sense.
My criticisms aren't endorsements of Zach. Theyre just my opinions of how you don't try to develop a QB with Wilson's strengths and weaknesses
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 05:16:47 PM
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 05:20:48 PM
I'd rather see a decent quarterback try to make due with Mike LaFleur than a decent coordinator try to make due with Zach Wilson. Otherwise it's just going to be, "Wowee, Frank Reich sucks too, huh."
100%
Manning's record breaking season came with Gase as his OC. Can't think of a reverse scenario where a great OC made a terrible QB look any good.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 05:25:59 PM
https://twitter.com/GrushNYC/status/1594468802456059907
He is a bit of a queynte, isn't he?
Post by: casman02 on November 20, 2022, 05:27:09 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 05:27:23 PM
100%
Manning's record breaking season came with Gase as his OC. Can't think of a reverse scenario where a great OC made a terrible QB look any good.
Frank Reich won a super bowl with Big Dick Nick Foles.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 05:27:34 PM
He is god awful at interviews after a loss
It's his most Brady-like quality.
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2022, 05:38:23 PM
Frank Reich won a super bowl with Big Dick Nick Foles.
Zach sure as excrement ain't finishing his second season with 27 TD and 2 INT
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 05:43:11 PM
I'd rather see a decent quarterback try to make due with Mike LaFleur than a decent coordinator try to make due with Zach Wilson. Otherwise it's just going to be, "Wowee, Frank Reich sucks too, huh."That's a more valid argument for MLF
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 20, 2022, 05:45:03 PM
I hate MLF and want him gone. My patience with Wilson is wearing thin, but I'd like to see Wilson with a competent OC.
If this team refuses to cut bait with MLF, then they need to bring in a legit vet QB that can compete for the job, bc going into next season with Wilson and Mike White is not ok.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 05:48:25 PM
Zach sure as excrement ain't finishing his second season with 27 TD and 2 INTNot under MLF...you got that right
Post by: Libero_2 on November 20, 2022, 06:07:41 PM
Who the freak is coming here to be an OC with a track record of success to have Zach Wilson as his trigger man?
Because I don’t think that guy exists. We are either promoting a guy who has never done it before or grabbing a dude off a staff that got fired, probably because their offense wasn’t effective. Best case we get a now former HC that accepts a demotion to OC like frank Reich. OK, reich is gonna have his pick of jobs, why the hell is he going to tie himself to a 3rd year QB who has consistently underwhelmed and is almost certainly going to get him fired? How does that seem like the best way to rebuild his image?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 06:09:42 PM
As for the OC thing, you guys are asking for competent.
Who the freak is coming here to be an OC with a track record of success to have Zach Wilson as his trigger man?
Because I don’t think that guy exists. We are either promoting a guy who has never done it before or grabbing a dude off a staff that got fired, probably because their offense wasn’t effective. Best case we get a now former HC that accepts a demotion to OC like frank Reich. OK, reich is gonna have his pick of jobs, why the hell is he going to tie himself to a 3rd year QB who has consistently underwhelmed and is almost certainly going to get him fired? How does that seem like the best way to rebuild his image?
if MLF gets canned, the next OC is not tied to Zach Wilson
there has to be a scapegoat and I think it will be the offensive staff plus the QB
Post by: Libero_2 on November 20, 2022, 06:12:08 PM
if MLF gets canned, the next OC is not tied to Zach Wilson
there has to be a scapegoat and I think it will be the offensive staff plus the QB
I suspect so. But again, why is Reich coming here? On some level part of his job is going to be trying to rehab Wilson, even if it’s from the bench while someone else starts.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 06:14:35 PM
if MLF gets canned, the next OC is not tied to Zach WilsonI'm not sure there will need to be a scapegoat if we go 9-8 this year, which we're still favored to do. The staff would probably look at themselves as being ahead of schedule. I would be pretty shocked if Saleh fired LaFleur if we finish above .500.
there has to be a scapegoat and I think it will be the offensive staff plus the QB
And like you said, if we fire MLF, that likely means Zach is gone, too. Which is why I think it's far more likely Zach is gone/benched. Zach is the one who is clearly underperforming on the field.
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2022, 06:18:23 PM
someone asked what does Zach do well which is a fair questionCook salmon?
What does Mike LaFleur do well?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 06:20:19 PM
As for the OC thing, you guys are asking for competent.
Who the freak is coming here to be an OC with a track record of success to have Zach Wilson as his trigger man?
Because I don’t think that guy exists. We are either promoting a guy who has never done it before or grabbing a dude off a staff that got fired, probably because their offense wasn’t effective. Best case we get a now former HC that accepts a demotion to OC like frank Reich. OK, reich is gonna have his pick of jobs, why the hell is he going to tie himself to a 3rd year QB who has consistently underwhelmed and is almost certainly going to get him fired? How does that seem like the best way to rebuild his image?
My assumption would be its highly unlikely we get rid of MLF
In the very unlikely scenario we do, I imagine the new guy is bringing in a free agent QB they have some connection with to compete with Zach.
Nobody is even considering coming here with Wilson, White, and Flacco
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 06:25:11 PM
Look at Moore running open over the middle, but Zach won't throw it.
(https://i.ibb.co/M7grnQF/image.png)
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 06:32:46 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 06:33:50 PM
44% comp pct with an open target.
Post by: delavan on November 20, 2022, 06:38:58 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/SsCYcfpjEcHP0VTR7X/giphy.gif)
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 06:39:12 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1594486411062714368
44% comp pct with an open target.
Sounds like a coaching problem
Has MLF told him to throw the ball to his receivers?
Maybe Vince Lombardi would fix this
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 06:42:16 PM
Sounds like a coaching problemReally bad job by LaFleur telling Zach to purposely miss open receivers. He should stop doing that.
Has MLF told him to throw the ball to his receivers?
Maybe Vince Lombardi would fix this
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 06:47:56 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1594486411062714368
44% comp pct with an open target.
Wait, that doesn't seem right, worst in the league with no pressure? I thought he was OK against no pressure.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 06:48:42 PM
But the sidearm snap throws look cool...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/SsCYcfpjEcHP0VTR7X/giphy.gif)
When I mentioned this before it was made very clear to me that this wasn't a problem.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 06:49:57 PM
Wait, that doesn't seem right, worst in the league with no pressure? I thought he was OK against no pressure.Those are numbers from today.
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 06:52:28 PM
When I mentioned this before it was made very clear to me that this wasn't a problem.
Zach's inaccuracy has significantly more to do with the angle of his feet than the angle of his arm.
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 06:52:45 PM
Those are numbers from today.
OK.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 06:56:17 PM
Zach's inaccuracy has significantly more to do with the angle of his feet than the angle of his arm.This
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 06:57:23 PM
Zach's inaccuracy has significantly more to do with the angle of his feet than the angle of his arm.
Zach's inaccuracy might have all sorts of things to do with all sorts of things, but TBH I'm more concerned with what he does or doesn't have above the neck than anything else. But the point that delavan is making, and which I made previously, is that sidearm throws (in any sport) are by definition way harder to make accurate, and therefore should only be used when there's no alternative.
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 07:22:39 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 20, 2022, 07:23:17 PM
(https://i.redd.it/ev69ejqmu71a1.jpg)
I don’t care that you are right.
freak you for this post
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 07:24:43 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 07:31:52 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 07:34:07 PM
#BringBackSamWith Loggains
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 07:47:20 PM
#BringBackSam
Why?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 07:50:02 PM
Are you okay bringing him back, or content with 40% of our passes getting completed
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 07:55:17 PM
Why?
In part I'm just being silly, but I do think it's kind of ironic that I dug in and defended Sam as a hugely talented young guy who was the product of awful coaching and playcalling while you and others couldn't wait to run him out of town because he was apparently such a bad player, and now here you are making the exact same argument I did but for Wilson.
I still think that Sam was the better prospect. Given what we've seen of Zach and his family, I'm not convinced that he isn't an immature and entitled guy who isn't very coachable.
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 07:57:17 PM
Obviously he's being fascious, but if for some bizzare reason all the other QB's end up sticking with their current teams and Darnold is the only option.
Are you okay bringing him back, or content with 40% of our passes getting completed
this machine kills facious
Post by: delavan on November 20, 2022, 07:58:16 PM
When I mentioned this before it was made very clear to me that this wasn't a problem.You're right JE. Zach at times needlessly throws off an unstable platform (feet) and his arm angles are too varied when they don't need to be (e.g. throwing sidearm 'around' a DL's would-be block).
Post by: Libero_2 on November 20, 2022, 08:02:11 PM
(https://i.redd.it/ev69ejqmu71a1.jpg)
I guess it’s only fitting that I’m now watching groundhogs day
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 08:08:53 PM
In part I'm just being silly, but I do think it's kind of ironic that I dug in and defended Sam as a hugely talented young guy who was the product of awful coaching and playcalling while you and others couldn't wait to run him out of town because he was apparently such a bad player, and now here you are making the exact same argument I did but for Wilson.I think Zach is a more talented prospect than Sam, though Sam always seemed like a stand-up guy. He would have taken more responsibility with losses.
I still think that Sam was the better prospect. Given what we've seen of Zach and his family, I'm not convinced that he isn't an immature and entitled guy who isn't very coachable.
Sam also got a 3rd season, no questions asked. I think we all gave Sam the benefit of the doubt until early Year 3. That's when I turned on him.
The biggest differences for Zach are
- The team is actually ready to compete with decent QB play, so we need to find an answer more quickly.
- We JUST went through this with Sam, so we're a little more impatient with young QBs
- The talent and coaching around him seems better, so there are fewer excuses (I know many of you disagree on MLF)
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 08:11:56 PM
I think Zach is a more talented prospect than Sam
Why?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 08:14:18 PM
Zach Wilson's stat line is almost verbatim this year vs last. And he's got the far better talent and coaching staff around him.
Zach isn't even in the ballpark of Darnold. And Darnold wasn't it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 08:16:54 PM
Why?Better arm. More athletic. College tape was better. I thought Sam was the 4th-best QB in that draft. I was fine any QB besides Allen at 3, but I preferred Lamar, Baker and Rosen to Darnold.
Kind of like this year. I was fine with either Fields or Wilson. Didn't really have a strong preference, but it always seemed like the Jets wanted Wilson, and I was fine with that
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 08:25:56 PM
Better arm. More athletic. College tape was better.
Really? Statistically they were very similar in college, but at different levels. In the NFL Sam's stats are noticeably better despite playing with inarguably worse coaching and supporting casts. Apart from "wow, look at that throw he just made in the gym" I think there's a pretty decent argument that Wilson is actually less talented than Sam in pretty much every facet of the game, and particularly between the ears.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 08:32:48 PM
Really? Statistically they were very similar in college, but at different levels. In the NFL Sam's stats are noticeably better despite playing with inarguably worse coaching and supporting casts. Apart from "wow, look at that throw he just made in the gym" I think there's a pretty decent argument that Wilson is actually less talented than Sam in pretty much every facet of the game, and particularly between the ears.I thought Sam's prospect profile was inflated because he looked so good in 2016. He wasn't that impressive to me in 2017. He had 22 turnovers in 14 games. That's terrible for a college quarterback. He was great when he first burst onto the scene, then wasn't great his last season.
Zach, meanwhile, had a ridiculously impressive season on tape his last season. You could make a better case he made a big leap. The big criticism there was that it was against overmatched competition, and I think that is proving out in the NFL. And I think he built some bad habits that he hasn't been able to break.
The mental game is something we don't really know about. With Sam or with Zach. Just because Sam is "the nice one" doesn't mean he has a great NFL quarterback brain. When Zach talks about football, he sounds smarter than Sam ever did.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 08:37:25 PM
He had 22 turnovers in 14 games. That's terrible for a college quarterback.
It would be if it was correct, but it isn't. He had 22 turnovers in 27 games, which still isn't good but isn't that much worse than Wilson's 15 in 30 versus massively inferior opposition.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 08:41:09 PM
It would be if it was correct, but it isn't. He had 22 turnovers in 27 games, which still isn't good but isn't that much worse than Wilson's 15 in 30 versus massively inferior opposition.13 interceptions + 9 fumbles lost = 22 turnovers in 2017 (tied for most in the nation that year)
Glad you agree that it's terrible.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 20, 2022, 08:41:55 PM
The fact is we'd all be freaking thrilled if Wilson ended up being as good as Darnold was here
And thats setting a low bar
At least Darnold was a top 32 QB
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 08:45:26 PM
Who gives a excrement who was better in collegeJust answering the follow-up questions.
The fact is we'd all be freaking thrilled if Wilson ended up being as good as Darnold was here
And thats setting a low bar
At least Darnold was a top 32 QB
Darnold was terrible. Wilson is terrible. It really doesn't matter how they are compared to one another.
Darnold got a 3rd season where he confirmed he was bad. Wilson likely is not getting that chance unless he makes big strides. The team is too good to waste it on a quarterback who likely will have been terrible for two seasons when history says those players typically don't turn it around.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 08:50:51 PM
13 interceptions + 9 fumbles lost = 22 turnovers in 2017 (tied for most in the nation that year)
Glad you agree that it's terrible.
Ah my bad, was just looking at picks. Still, I think it looks increasingly likely that Douglas was blinded to a big arm and forgot to check whether he was mentally capable of playing in the NFL. He is the second youngest starter in the NFL still (I think) so there's time for him to figure it out, but if he's not mature enough to behave like he deserves the C on his jersey then I doubt it's going to happen here. He clearly doesn't have the talent to outplay his current mental failings.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 08:56:14 PM
Ah my bad, was just looking at picks. Still, I think it looks increasingly likely that Douglas was blinded to a big arm and forgot to check whether he was mentally capable of playing in the NFL. He is the second youngest starter in the NFL still (I think) so there's time for him to figure it out, but if he's not mature enough to behave like he deserves the C on his jersey then I doubt it's going to happen here. He clearly doesn't have the talent to outplay his current mental failings.I don't think it's that simple. QB evaluation is not easy. Nobody is really good at it.
From all indications, Zach is a very hard worker and a very smart kid. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to translate though.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 20, 2022, 08:59:11 PM
JD has done an outstanding job building the majority of this team. But missing on the QB is always a massive black mark. Personally I think JD is the best executive we’ve had since I’ve been following the team in the late 90s. I think he should get another shot at the QB spot. But if he fucks it up, and he wastes this window with this talent that he’s accumulated it will really freak us all up as fans.
Post by: delavan on November 20, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/liLYWwI4cs3hEpWoFj/giphy.gif)
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 09:56:27 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/ZXCPBNg/2022-11-20-19-20-23-1-Tweets-liked-by-John-Franklin-Myers-J-Franklin-Myers-Twitter.png)https://twitter.com/J_FranklinMyers/status/1594527340377391104?t=3gfbrJqOPNL0lfXBf04Oyw&s=19
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 10:09:39 PM
Post by: IATA on November 20, 2022, 10:28:54 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2022, 07:15:39 AM
That 3rd and 1 pass to Carter was 100% Zach making the wrong read. He had Moore wide open on a crossing route beyond the sticks.
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594667347226279938?s=20&t=y_D_Ww6kGe_h2bCSuV7X1A (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594667347226279938?s=20&t=y_D_Ww6kGe_h2bCSuV7X1A)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 07:35:02 AM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594667347226279938?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594671299326271490?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594678660149219328?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
But MLF
Post by: Libero_2 on November 21, 2022, 07:42:08 AM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594665630086877185?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594667347226279938?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594671299326271490?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594678660149219328?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
But MLF
It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 07:44:00 AM
He is god awful at interviews after a loss
My biggest problem isn’t his attitude/demeanor, I’m slowly starting to understand that he doesn’t realize how bad he played
Or he’s lying to himself as well as everyone else
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 21, 2022, 07:45:46 AM
But MLF
It's not like those two things are mutually exclusive. Then again, those clips just reinforce what Judon said after the game, Zach's playing scared.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 07:48:21 AM
That 3rd and 1 pass to Carter was 100% Zach making the wrong read. He had Moore wide open on a crossing route beyond the sticks.
His first read was Tyler Conklin, who was double teamed. If Moore is read #2, it's too late. There is a linebacker coming down as soon as he crosses the right hash.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 07:50:37 AM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594665630086877185?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594667347226279938?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594671299326271490?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594678660149219328?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
But MLF
QB Vision Cone breakdown again
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 07:51:11 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 07:51:39 AM
It's not like those two things are mutually exclusive. Then again, those clips just reinforce what Judon said after the game, Zach's playing scared.
Only 1 way to find out, Mike White time
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 07:52:54 AM
QB Vision Cone breakdown again
Somehow the other 31 QBs in the league have figured out a way to complete passes.
Always an excuse for our guys
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 07:56:27 AM
Somehow the other 31 QBs in the league have figured out a way to complete passes.
Always an excuse for our guys
If his read progression is left to right, Moore is not open.
And it's highly likely that Moore is his third or fourth read anyway, given his usage in our offense.
The QB was awful yesterday and LaFleur called a pass play on 3rd and 1. The coaching staff put the ball in his hands. That's on them.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 08:03:13 AM
Only 1 way to find out, Mike White time
Please no. I'm working my way through the five stages of grief - I've been doing Denial, yesterday was Anger, and now I'm into Bargaining, because although he's clearly not up to the job of being an NFL quarterback I have zero interest in watching White or Flacco again. So I am currently working on the bargain of "but the available alternatives are worse and I only have to get through seven more games of him before I can turn my attention to who we can bring in next season".
To save you googling, the remaining stages are Depression and Acceptance.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:05:28 AM
Great now this loser is shitting on us. It’s only ok when I do it
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:09:55 AM
Please no. I'm working my way through the five stages of grief - I've been doing Denial, yesterday was Anger, and now I'm into Bargaining, because although he's clearly not up to the job of being an NFL quarterback I have zero interest in watching White or Flacco again. So I am currently working on the bargain of "but the available alternatives are worse and I only have to get through seven more games of him before I can turn my attention to who we can bring in next season".
To save you googling, the remaining stages are Depression and Acceptance.
We still have the playoffs on the line.
The offense looks like dogshit just about every week and we get the same tired lines “we have to get better”. If we’re going to look like that against the Patriots every time, the season is a wrap.
I am by no means a fan of him and hate to be that guy, but at least White could maybe give the offense a spark. I haven’t seen anything redeemable with Zach playing QB.
Perhaps most importantly, it gives us a chance to evaluate the Zach Wilson/Mike LaFleur situation. This board has already moved on to talking about next season and we have no idea if we have our OC or QB of the future. That’s probably more important than the playoffs this year.
I doubt it happens. Saleh already said no again after the game.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 08:13:29 AM
https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1594664772754178048?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
Great now this loser is shitting on us. It’s only ok when I do it
That's the play where Garrett got upset with Mims. The whole play is a disaster.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 21, 2022, 08:18:08 AM
Please no. I'm working my way through the five stages of grief - I've been doing Denial, yesterday was Anger, and now I'm into Bargaining, because although he's clearly not up to the job of being an NFL quarterback I have zero interest in watching White or Flacco again. So I am currently working on the bargain of "but the available alternatives are worse and I only have to get through seven more games of him before I can turn my attention to who we can bring in next season".
To save you googling, the remaining stages are Depression and Acceptance.
I've been bouncing between the last two stages with this team for the past 15+ years
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 08:20:07 AM
Weird arrogance off the field mixed with ultra conservative decision making on the field.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 08:22:38 AM
We don't move the pocket or roll him out. We very rarely use play action to scheme receivers open. We do not throw to the running backs anymore.
The whole offense is broken.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:24:08 AM
This shouldn’t still be happening
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:25:14 AM
This Sunday
Post by: Libero_2 on November 21, 2022, 08:26:33 AM
We still have the playoffs on the line.
The offense looks like dogshit just about every week and we get the same tired lines “we have to get better”. If we’re going to look like that against the Patriots every time, the season is a wrap.
I am by no means a fan of him and hate to be that guy, but at least White could maybe give the offense a spark. I haven’t seen anything redeemable with Zach playing QB.
Perhaps most importantly, it gives us a chance to evaluate the Zach Wilson/Mike LaFleur situation. This board has already moved on to talking about next season and we have no idea if we have our OC or QB of the future. That’s probably more important than the playoffs this year.
I doubt it happens. Saleh already said no again after the game.
There is no benefit for Saleh to say anything publicly, especially minutes after a crushing loss when emotions are at there highest. It costs Saleh nothing to pour confidence into Zach publicly right now.
Now if we get another half like this from Zach to start next week, Saleh is going to have pressure on him to decide what to do. This defense is too talented, if Zach wants to be this awful, for the sanity of the team Saleh will have to make a switch if for no other reason than to force Zach to reevaluate himself and his play and see if White can execute the offense when Flacco and Zach couldn’t.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:27:09 AM
-Cimini
Post by: dcm1602 on November 21, 2022, 08:28:33 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 21, 2022, 08:30:41 AM
Hearing this morning there’s a lot of raw feelings among #Jets defensive players. Clearly, Zach Wilson’s post-game accountability (or lack thereof) didn’t sit
-Cimini
Dick stirring that pot like a batch of toilet stew.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:31:06 AM
My biggest problem isn’t his attitude/demeanor, I’m slowly starting to understand that he doesn’t realize how bad he played
Or he’s lying to himself as well as everyone else
https://twitter.com/stevegelbs/status/1594699548060160000?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
JFC
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:31:57 AM
Dick stirring that pot like a batch of toilet stew.
So are all the other beat reporters. Maybe it’s accurate?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 08:32:24 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 21, 2022, 08:35:37 AM
So are all the other beat reporters. Maybe it’s accurate?
Never thought i'd see the word "accurate" in a sentence describing our beat reporters....I think i'll take a wait & see on this one.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 21, 2022, 08:42:36 AM
Dick stirring that pot like a batch of toilet stew.
The media lives and breathes for controversy. Zach is making it so easy on them right now by acting like a little bitch after playing like trash each of the last two games with the Pats.
If he doesn’t want the pot stirred, play well. And if he can’t or doesn’t, sure as excrement don’t be this level of arrogant/stupid with your comments after the game
Post by: MBGreen on November 21, 2022, 09:03:12 AM
The media lives and breathes for controversy. Zach is making it so easy on them right now by acting like a little bitch after playing like trash each of the last two games with the Pats.
If he doesn’t want the pot stirred, play well. And if he can’t or doesn’t, sure as excrement don’t be this level of arrogant/stupid with your comments after the game
maybe Zach is frustrated with the offensive scheme.
He should've taken the high road with the press afterward, but the emotions were still pretty raw and he's still a 23 year old kid.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 09:08:41 AM
Quote
Zach Wilson's 1st 20 career starts are a little too close to JaMarcus Russell's for comfort
1st 20 Starts
Russell Wilson
Yds/att 6.2 6.3
TD-Int 15-13 13-16
Passer rtg 70.6 70.7
Quote
Zach Wilson in 7 games this year: 4 TD, 5 INT, 55.6% completions
Johnny Manziel in 9 games in 2015: 7 TD, 5 INT, 57.8% completions
Very fun Monday morning
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 09:10:50 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 21, 2022, 09:18:28 AM
Quote
Zach Wilson in 7 games this year: 4 TD, 5 INT, 55.6% completions
Johnny Manziel in 9 games in 2015: 7 TD, 5 INT, 57.8% completions
Very fun Monday morning
just for context
your buddy Dowell Loggains was Manziel's QB coach in 2015.
And Kyle Shanahan was the OC...so essentially Mike Lafleur's offense will potentially ruin 2 QB careers....the only difference is that cocaine isn't involved with Zach yet.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 21, 2022, 09:25:42 AM
just for context
your buddy Dowell Loggains was Manziel's QB coach in 2015.
And Kyle Shanahan was the OC...so essentially Mike Lafleur's offense will potentially ruin 2 QB careers....the only difference is that cocaine isn't involved with Zach yet.
Kyle Shanahan, the offensive genius that is having coaches taken left and right and having key principles copied across the league is the guy you are blaming for Manziel’s failure?
Post by: Libero_2 on November 21, 2022, 09:30:26 AM
maybe Zach is frustrated with the offensive scheme.
He should've taken the high road with the press afterward, but the emotions were still pretty raw and he's still a 23 year old kid.
You are damn right he should have. No one cares that he’s 23 on the field. No one cares when he can’t act the part off of it. You wanna survive in NYC, you need to at least play the role of leader, if not actually be one. Zach has struggled being a leader through his voice, his actions and his play in between the lines.
As a person who coaches, there’s an old adage that always rings true. Adversity reveals your true character. If you are gonna act like a whiny bitch when times are tough, that’s just who you are inside. That of course does not mean you can’t be a good player, but if you aren’t going to be special, very few people are going to want to work with you.
Zach needs to eat some humble freaking pie, and do it now.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 09:34:56 AM
lol
Post by: steves850 on November 21, 2022, 09:39:55 AM
White Mike may not be the answer, but he has THREE starts under his belt. And he balled the freak out in one of them. How many times has Wilson put up numbers? He's not lost us a handful of games, he's lost us at least one this year and he hasn't shown up in how many?
Between his lack of accountability, lack of play, and lack of leadership, we know what we have in the kid. This team can be dangerous with a middling QB. Right now we have a liability. Put White in and see if he can cook. It at least sends a message to the locker room that we're trying something and no one is bigger than the team.
Post by: steves850 on November 21, 2022, 09:40:45 AM
https://twitter.com/iamsaucegardner/status/1594712456596701185?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
lol
https://twitter.com/J_FranklinMyers/status/1594527340377391104
Must be an epidemic...
Post by: Libero_2 on November 21, 2022, 09:41:27 AM
https://twitter.com/iamsaucegardner/status/1594712456596701185?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxg
lol
Regardless of truth vs lie here, at least he’s saying the right thing to at least showcase there isn’t a rift in the locker room.
Post by: MBGreen on November 21, 2022, 09:42:54 AM
You are damn right he should have. No one cares that he’s 23 on the field. No one cares when he can’t act the part off of it. You wanna survive in NYC, you need to at least play the role of leader, if not actually be one. Zach has struggled being a leader through his voice, his actions and his play in between the lines.
As a person who coaches, there’s an old adage that always rings true. Adversity reveals your true character. If you are gonna act like a whiny bitch when times are tough, that’s just who you are inside. That of course does not mean you can’t be a good player, but if you aren’t going to be special, very few people are going to want to work with you.
Zach needs to eat some humble freaking pie, and do it now.
exaggerate much? settle down, Francis.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 09:50:46 AM
I'm starting to have second thoughts on giving him the rest of the season. I don't think Mike White is good, but if Bears-Jets is 10-6 in the 4th quarter this week, and Zach is sucking, maybe we try something new.
Saleh is desperate to avoid a QB controversy, which I understand. But the QB is creating the QB controversy by playing poorly and taking no accountability for it.
Post by: delavan on November 21, 2022, 09:52:09 AM
https://twitter.com/ftbeard7/status/1594418390176628737?s=46&t=AgkNKeH45oPkTzZ2AmbAxgTake your cursor and put it on the scroll bar and slowly--very slowly--scroll through the frames back & forth...
This shouldn’t still be happening
1. Conklin is immediately open past the LBs (granted can't see the safety)
2. Garrett Wilson: Jonathan Jones #31 has totally turned tail and is running with his back to the LOS and is nowhere near Garrett when he breaks off his route.
3. Zach Wilson (on what ends up a short throw to Berrios):
- has a needlessly wasteful 'up-down-up' windup (watch him 'drop the ball' while 'loading up' for a measly 10 yd. pass)
- his hips / shoulders fly open and end up facing away from his target (note his left arm doesn't 'break' across his chest to prevent spinning off to the left)
- nice arm but his mechanics need some tightening up. When you're bricking/sailing 10 yard flips a la Zach Mettenberger it's time for a real QB coach to check under the hood.
Rob Calabrese? QB coach (2018) at...Wagner?! Quality control coach as recently as 2020?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 10:00:30 AM
But the QB is creating the QB controversy by playing poorly and taking no accountability for it.
That's what's changed after the post game yesterday.
Wilson was struggling but the team was still behind him...until now it seems.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2022, 10:04:45 AM
Post by: steves850 on November 21, 2022, 10:08:36 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 10:09:54 AM
That's what's changed after the post game yesterday.Yep. The Patriots games were emotional games for both the fans and the players.
Wilson was struggling but the team was still behind him...until now it seems.
If the fans can look at the 2 games and clearly point at Zach Wilson as the reason we lost them both, then so can the players.
We are squarely in the playoff picture despite bad QB play. I think the goal should be to do whatever it takes to improve that QB play and give this defense a chance to succeed.
I don't think Mike White is very good, but he might be better than Zach at this point. We don't need a lot of offense to win games, but we need some.
I still start Zach this week, but I no longer care about benching him as being bad for his development. First, he might need that reality check. Second, if benching him for playing horribly is really going to stunt his career, then he probably was never going to make it. Third, I'm not sure how realistic it is for him to show enough over the last 7 games to really cement himself as the guy. There are enough games to do it, but it would need to be a complete 180.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 10:14:25 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 10:16:02 AM
I still don't understand the Flacco demotion to QB3It's quite strange. Maybe White looks better at practice. Maybe they want a better look if White could be the long-term backup (though that was likely assuming Zach is starter). I don't know.
Maybe there is something to the Jets starting Flacco at the beginning of the year to try to avoid a QB controversy.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 10:16:27 AM
I still don't understand the Flacco demotion to QB3
Agreed. He might not be good but he's better than White.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 10:18:46 AM
Agreed. He might not be good but he's better than White.I don't know. I would rather give White a chance.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 10:25:01 AM
I don't know. I would rather give White a chance.
If we're going to accept at least inconsistencies in the playcalling, to be generous, I want a QB under center who has the smarts and the experience to read the defense, know what's going to work and more importantly what isn't, and if need be audible out of a play that's clearly doomed before it's snapped. He may not have the physical skills he once did but Flacco still has an arm and he knows what he's looking at on the field.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 10:28:59 AM
If we're going to accept at least inconsistencies in the playcalling, to be generous, I want a QB under center who has the smarts and the experience to read the defense, know what's going to work and more importantly what isn't, and if need be audible out of a play that's clearly doomed before it's snapped. He may not have the physical skills he once did but Flacco still has an arm and he knows what he's looking at on the field.LaFleur didn't do a great job yesterday, but overall, he's fine. We just need a guy to throw the ball accurately and on time. Either Flacco or White can do that. Flacco averaged 5.8 yards per attempt when he was in there, and he's a statue in the pocket. I'd rather give White a shot.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 10:38:54 AM
LaFleur didn't do a great job yesterday, but overall, he's fine.
How is he fine?
The personnel usage is horrible.
Becton, Moore, and Mims have all had issues with him. He's not fine.
The QB is not playing well but the OC is not doing much to tailor the scheme to help him (or any of the other players for that matter).
Post by: steves850 on November 21, 2022, 10:40:16 AM
Agreed. He might not be good but he's better than White.
It's a excrement situation. We need a QB who can move the pocket but also who can overcome excrement playcalling. Flacco doesn't give us the former and White (may not) give us the latter.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 10:40:33 AM
If we're going to accept at least inconsistencies in the playcalling, to be generous, I want a QB under center who has the smarts and the experience to read the defense, know what's going to work and more importantly what isn't, and if need be audible out of a play that's clearly doomed before it's snapped. He may not have the physical skills he once did but Flacco still has an arm and he knows what he's looking at on the field.
Our QBs do not audible. It's something I've noticed since this regime took over. We rarely use timeouts offensively and we rarely change a play at the line.
There's an occasional "kill, kill" but very rarely do we move out of the initial formation. We also very rarely use motion other than the weird orbit look from Berrios/Moore.
Post by: MBGreen on November 21, 2022, 10:41:47 AM
I still don't understand the Flacco demotion to QB3
his release is too slow for MLF's system.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 10:42:00 AM
Note that Darnold's first 20 games includes the seeing ghosts game against NE where he threw 4 picks and no TDs with a rating of 3.6, so this isn't even cherry picking.
Post by: steves850 on November 21, 2022, 10:42:33 AM
Our QBs do not audible. It's something I've noticed since this regime took over. We rarely use timeouts offensively and we rarely change a play at the line.
There's an occasional "kill, kill" but very rarely do we move out of the initial formation. We also very rarely use motion other than the weird orbit look from Berrios/Moore.
Do you think this is ordered by coaching or lack of confidence from the QB? I know it's only speculation but curious on your take.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 10:43:12 AM
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594478964440973313
Note that Darnold's first 20 games includes the seeing ghosts game against NE where he threw 4 picks and no TDs with a rating of 3.6, so this isn't even cherry picking.
So what you're saying is Bates/Gase is better than LaFleur?
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 10:43:51 AM
Our QBs do not audible. It's something I've noticed since this regime took over.
I agree but it was my assumption that it was an instruction that as a young QB he's not trusted to. It would make no sense to tell Flacco that he's not trusted to make a read based on what he sees, given he's seen a freak of a lot more NFL defenses in his career than anyone calling plays on our sideline.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 10:44:49 AM
So what you're saying is Bates/Gase is better than LaFleur?
No, I'm saying that Darnold is clearly better than Wilson. If Darnold had been given the weapons, protection and coaching that Wilson has, flawed as they all may be, he would still be our starter today.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 10:45:50 AM
So what you're saying is Bates/Gase is better than LaFleur?Or that Zach is just that bad. Sam was clearly better than Zach through 20 games. Year 3 is where I thought the bottom fell out for Sam.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 10:46:13 AM
Do you think this is ordered by coaching or lack of confidence from the QB? I know it's only speculation but curious on your take.
From snippets we've heard, it sounds to me like LaFleur is calling a play based on how he thinks a defense will line up against it. And then the QB and WRs are being asked to make a read based on coverage type.
It's far too complicated than it needs to be.
On the 3rd and 1, Moore is potentially open if he sits but he kept running into the zone look that Belichick disguised. The read was determined pre-snap. Wilson said he was supposed to go to Conklin but he was doubled. So he's looking to single receiver side and then scanning all the way across the field. It's bad football.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 10:47:26 AM
Or that Zach is just that bad. Sam was clearly better than Zach through 20 games. Year 3 is where I thought the bottom fell out for Sam.
Which is when Douglas hollowed out the team completely to start the rebuild, and gave him no chance of succeeding. (I'm not criticising him for that, it was an inevitable consequence of appointing Gase which wasn't on Douglas.)
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 10:48:20 AM
If Darnold had been given the weapons, protection and coaching that Wilson has, flawed as they all may be, he would still be our starter today.
Coaching? Our offense is one of the worst in the NFL. It's not just on the QB.
This offensive line is worse than anything Sam Darnold played behind. This running back group is worse than anyone Darnold handed the ball too.
Sam Darnold was bad here and he was still bad in Carolina. Zach Wilson probably just stinks too.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 10:58:20 AM
This offensive line is worse than anything Sam Darnold played behind. This running back group is worse than anyone Darnold handed the ball too.Are we sure about that? We were handing off to Frank Gore and LaMical Perine in 2020. Carter and Robinson aren't great, but they're better than that. Is a washed up Le'Veon Bell much better than the current group?
I think our OL has done a decent job this year given all the injuries. This OL should be terrible given all the injuries, but it's held up decently. I have more confidence in the current OL than I did any OL from 2018-20. It's done a solid job run blocking and hasn't been a total sieve pass blocking. Brandon Thorn rated us as the 15th-best OL two weeks ago, thanks in large part to how the coaching has made the talent look decent.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2022, 11:03:01 AM
Coaching? Our offense is one of the worst in the NFL. It's not just on the QB.
This offensive line is worse than anything Sam Darnold played behind. This running back group is worse than anyone Darnold handed the ball too.
These could be a toss up. The OLine has been a broken mess for the last 5 or 6 seasons. I honestly don't think we had a better HB on the roster than Breece Hall, he just didn't last that long. It's not like we had great versions of Frank Gore or Leveon Bell.
Quote
Sam Darnold was bad here and he was still bad in Carolina. Zach Wilson probably just stinks too.
This is probably correct.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 11:09:24 AM
/worst person you know meme
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 11:11:10 AM
Quote
Only 2 QBs since 2014 have recorded a completion % under pressure below 30% in a season:
• 2022 Zach Wilson (21.2%)
• 2021 Zach Wilson (29.3%)
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 11:13:12 AM
These could be a toss up. The OLine has been a broken mess for the last 5 or 6 seasons. I honestly don't think we had a better HB on the roster than Breece Hall, he just didn't last that long. It's not like we had great versions of Frank Gore or Leveon Bell.
I'm focusing mainly on Week 7 and beyond.
We haven't had a back as good as Breece Hall since Curtis Martin but him going down shouldn't completely derail the entire offense. That's a serious issue with LaFleur. He hasn't been able to adapt.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 11:13:56 AM
Quote
13 career Pass TD are the fewest by any QB thru 20 career starts since Brady Quinn
Joe Flacco still had more pass TDs than him this season…
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 11:13:56 AM
An awful stat, but hard to check down out of five wide too.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 11:15:29 AM
Joe Flacco still had more pass TDs than him this season…That is probably the saddest stat of them all.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 11:17:25 AM
That is probably the saddest stat of them all.
New England* x2, Denver, and Buffalo is rough for most QBs
I'm interested to see what he can do against Chicago. This is the true make or break game for him. If he struggles early, you have to make a change to spark the offense.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 11:20:46 AM
I'm focusing mainly on Week 7 and beyond.You just said we had a worse RB and worse OL corps than we had in 2020 when we went 1-15, thanks in large part to a horrible offense. And Wilson is worse than Darnold was.
We haven't had a back as good as Breece Hall since Curtis Martin but him going down shouldn't completely derail the entire offense. That's a serious issue with LaFleur. He hasn't been able to adapt.
This offense is not going to be good. The goal is to have it be below average and not horrendous.
There are open receivers on film. We're just not getting them the ball. To me, that's more of a QB issue than a coaching issue. It's both, but it's more on the QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 11:21:34 AM
There are open receivers on film.
QB Vision Cone activated
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 11:22:42 AM
New England* x2, Denver, and Buffalo is rough for most QBsAgreed. It's also why I am much more open to benching him if things go poorly. He doesn't have the excuse of playing against a great defense this week. He certainly has had a tough run of defenses.
I'm interested to see what he can do against Chicago. This is the true make or break game for him. If he struggles early, you have to make a change to spark the offense.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 11:23:33 AM
You just said we had a worse RB and worse OL corps than we had in 2020
Right now, we do.
We are on OT5 at RT and we started a OG3 at at RG yesterday. That right side we put out there yesterday is probably the worst right side of OL we've ever had as a team.
Ty Johnson is arguably the worst back in the NFL getting reps right now too and he's out snapping James Robinson.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 11:25:21 AM
Right now, we do.Ty Johnson was our best running back in 2020. He's our 3rd-best running back now. How is this RB group worse? That makes no sense.
We are on OT5 at RT and we started a OG3 at at RG yesterday.
Ty Johnson is arguably the worst back in the NFL getting reps right now too and he's out snapping James Robinson.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 11:27:06 AM
Ty Johnson was our best running back in 2020.
He was not.
Post by: Gorilla on November 21, 2022, 11:27:23 AM
Keeping Zach as starter all year made sense when it was about still rebuilding and "we need to see what we have and get our sophomore franchise qb reps".
But most folks didn't assume we'd have an elite, championship-level defense, along with playoff-caliber offensive weapons. Zach is an anchor, and thankfully we have a defense stronger than an anchor in most games.
For the first time, and I know I'm not alone haha, Im fine with a qb change if deemed necessary. Zach's more-unlikely-by-the-game "development" is not more important than a playoff run. The other players and the fans deserve better.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 11:28:36 AM
He was not.Fine, please explain how LaMical Perine and Frank Gore were better than Michael Carter and James Robinson then. Unless you're a big Josh Adams guy.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2022, 11:30:19 AM
Fine, please explain how LaMical Perine and Frank Gore were better than Michael Carter and James Robinson then. Unless you're a big Josh Adams guy.
He already said he's focusing on week 7 and after.
Michael Carter isn't a #1 back and James Robinson can't really be a factor if he isn't getting the ball.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 11:33:08 AM
If we aren't throwing the football to Michael Carter, he's really just ineffective unfortunately. The OL isn't good enough to consistently get him lanes and he's not powerful to do anything between the tackles if it's not there. He is a true spell back with no one to spell. It sucks to see.
Post by: Jumbo on November 21, 2022, 11:35:18 AM
Still hoping for the best for Zach and that he can finally get his head out of his magic underwear, but that's getting more wish-thinking and less evidence-based by the week.
Keeping Zach as starter all year made sense when it was about still rebuilding and "we need to see what we have and get our sophomore franchise qb reps".
But most folks didn't assume we'd have an elite, championship-level defense, along with playoff-caliber offensive weapons. Zach is an anchor, and thankfully we have a defense stronger than an anchor in most games.
For the first time, and I know I'm not alone haha, Im fine with a qb change if deemed necessary. Zach's more-unlikely-by-the-game "development" is not more important than a playoff run. The other players and the fans deserve better.
Yep, agreed. Not sure if White will be significantly better but he has shown he can carry this team to a win with QB play, even if it's with not super hard dink-and-dunk passing. I don't even think Zach would be able to do that at this juncture.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 11:43:10 AM
I hope that James Robinson gets better as the season progresses but right now he's just looking a lot like Frank Gore, who was our best back in 2020.I liked the Robinson deal at the time, but I didn't like it nearly as much when I saw the Dolphins got Jeff Wilson for a 5th. Much more explosive back for a very similar price.
If we aren't throwing the football to Michael Carter, he's really just ineffective unfortunately. The OL isn't good enough to consistently get him lanes and he's not powerful to do anything between the tackles if it's not there. He is a true spell back with no one to spell. It sucks to see.
Now that I mention the "similar price," I wonder if part of the Robinson lack of usage is a Douglas suggestion. If Robinson isn't clearly better than Ty Johnson, then why give up an extra round on the draft pick?
We might have been better off waiting out Tevin Coleman's release.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 11:43:57 AM
Yep, agreed. Not sure if White will be significantly better but he has shown he can carry this team to a win with QB play, even if it's with not super hard dink-and-dunk passing. I don't even think Zach would be able to do that at this juncture.
Wilson played well against Buffalo. That's really it though.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 11:46:04 AM
- Very good 4th quarer vs Steelers (kind of sucked rest of game)
- Solid game manager vs Miami and Buffalo
- 1.5 good quarters vs Patriots in first meeting followed by some of the worst QB play I've ever seen for the next 6.5 quarters vs NE
- Mostly trash otherwise
Post by: dcm1602 on November 21, 2022, 11:48:46 AM
At the end of the day has there ever been a QB who has been absolutely freaking horrendously terrible for at least his first two seasons that had become any semblance of good?
I didn't want Zach then and I don't want him now.
But he's on this team, so what's best case scenario with him?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 12:05:16 PM
The platitudes and bullshit really annoys me where people are saying how Zach is really talented but it's all in his head blah blah blahBest case scenario is he becomes a game manager like he was against Miami and Buffalo. And preferably, he uses his legs a lot more. He's athletic and he can run. And while our schedule down the stretch isn't that easy, the stretch of defenses we face is a LOT easier, so maybe he can build some confidence.
At the end of the day has there ever been a QB who has been absolutely freaking horrendously terrible for at least his first two seasons that had become any semblance of good?
I didn't want Zach then and I don't want him now.
But he's on this team, so what's best case scenario with him?
He reminds me of Geno Smith in terms of his running. Geno was really athletic and a good runner when he chose to run, but he never wanted to do it. At this point, I don't really care if Zach gets hurt, so I wish he would run more. Our best offensive plays against New England were him running. He didn't take any hits when he was running, and we were picking up decent yards. But then he didn't run anymore after the beginning of the game.
(on a side note, I could easily see Zach having a similar career trajectory to Geno, where he eventually becomes a good quarterback a long way down the road)
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 21, 2022, 12:19:21 PM
Our QBs do not audible. It's something I've noticed since this regime took over. We rarely use timeouts offensively and we rarely change a play at the line.
There's an occasional "kill, kill" but very rarely do we move out of the initial formation. We also very rarely use motion other than the weird orbit look from Berrios/Moore.
Is it because Zach has no freaking idea what he's looking at?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 21, 2022, 12:25:11 PM
Yep, agreed. Not sure if White will be significantly better but he has shown he can carry this team to a win with QB play, even if it's with not super hard dink-and-dunk passing. I don't even think Zach would be able to do that at this juncture.
I'd take completing dinks and dunks over the garbage I watched yesterday, anytime.
Post by: Jumbo on November 21, 2022, 12:25:21 PM
Wilson played well against Buffalo. That's really it though.
Yeah, and I mean we scored 17 points that game. Not like he lit the world on fire. We scored double that in the Mike White Bengals game.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 12:27:55 PM
Is it because Zach has no freaking idea what he's looking at?
Flacco and White didn't audible either.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 12:29:50 PM
Yeah, and I mean we scored 17 points that game. Not like he lit the world on fire. We scored double that in the Mike White Bengals game.
We don't need him to light it up. We need the offense to sustain drives and help the defense out. We probably win that one yesterday if we had another couple field goal chances.
Similar to what's happening in Denver right now. We don't need a lot of points. We just need enough points and we didn't get them in both games against New England.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 12:32:53 PM
LaFleur is trying to use Ty Johnson more. Michael Carter is getting inside zone carries which are usually not there. James Robinson isn't doing much with the few opportunities he's getting.
We need to get under center and run the football right at defenses. We aren't good enough up front to run outside and out of the shotgun as much as we have.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 12:33:19 PM
We don't need him to light it up. We need the offense to sustain drives and help the defense out. We probably win that one yesterday if we had another couple field goal chances.Exactly. The bar is very low for whoever our QB is.
Similar to what's happening in Denver right now. We don't need a lot of points. We just need enough points and we didn't get them in both games against New England.
Literally don't be the worst QB in the NFL in a given week. Below average QB play is enough for us to win some games.
If we score 20 points in a game, we should win most of the time. We are 5-0 when we score 20 points and 1-4 when we don't.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 12:35:00 PM
All of our big plays came from Breece Hall.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 12:36:31 PM
We haven't changed anything up since Breece Hall went down.I think we are in shotgun so often because they don't think Zach can throw it effectively under center. He's got a career 47% completion percentage under center.
LaFleur is trying to use Ty Johnson more. Michael Carter is getting inside zone carries which are usually not there. James Robinson isn't doing much with the few opportunities he's getting.
We need to get under center and run the football right at defenses. We aren't good enough up front to run outside and out of the shotgun as much as we have.
The problem is he isn't very good in shotgun either, so we should probably do whatever runs the ball most effectively.
Post by: Jumbo on November 21, 2022, 12:37:15 PM
We don't need him to light it up. We need the offense to sustain drives and help the defense out. We probably win that one yesterday if we had another couple field goal chances.
Similar to what's happening in Denver right now. We don't need a lot of points. We just need enough points and we didn't get them in both games against New England.
Of course. But that shows that both the ceiling and floor are arguably higher with White in.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 12:40:05 PM
I think we are in shotgun so often because they don't think Zach can throw it effectively under center. He's got a career 47% completion percentage under center.
The problem is he isn't very good in shotgun either, so we should probably do whatever runs the ball most effectively.
Then don't throw it from under center. Just run it. LaFleur didn't think we could get 1 yard on the ground at the end of yesterday's game. We need to find a way to convert in short yardage. Five wide is not it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2022, 12:49:05 PM
Then don't throw it from under center. Just run it. LaFleur didn't think we could get 1 yard on the ground at the end of yesterday's game. We need to find a way to convert in short yardage. Five wide is not it.
He thinks he’s calling plays for Manning. He sucks. Zack sucks.
Reich/
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 01:12:17 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2022, 01:14:09 PM
Post by: Coach K on November 21, 2022, 01:21:11 PM
We haven't changed anything up since Breece Hall went down.Definitely this
LaFleur is trying to use Ty Johnson more. Michael Carter is getting inside zone carries which are usually not there. James Robinson isn't doing much with the few opportunities he's getting.
We need to get under center and run the football right at defenses. We aren't good enough up front to run outside and out of the shotgun as much as we have.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 01:44:27 PM
He thinks he’s calling plays for Manning. He sucks. Zack sucks.
Reich/CarrGaroppolo for ‘23
If we sign Jimmy, we are keeping LaFleur for the scheme familiarty
maybe Green Bay fires the other one and we get him too
double the suck
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2022, 01:50:48 PM
If we sign Jimmy, we are keeping LaFleur for the scheme familiarty
maybe Green Bay fires the other one and we get him too
double the suck
Eh, I don't think Jimmy G is going to command any particular system.
Like, if he was an actually good QB instead of a journeyman who had the right luck of poor FO management and injuries to his on-roster competition I could see it. Instead, he's solidly in the latter half where he's going to play whatever hand he's dealt at this point.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 21, 2022, 01:56:31 PM
Eh, I don't think Jimmy G is going to command any particular system.
Like, if he was an actually good QB instead of a journeyman who had the right luck of poor FO management and injuries to his on-roster competition I could see it. Instead, he's solidly in the latter half where he's going to play whatever hand he's dealt at this point.
I think the logic is more along the lines of we would target Jimmy G because he is an obvious fit for our current system.
Not Jimmy G is going to demand the system
Post by: Gorilla on November 21, 2022, 01:57:14 PM
If we sign Jimmy, we are keeping LaFleur for the scheme familiarty
maybe Green Bay fires the other one and we get him too
double the suck
Jimmy G on this team and likely we are 8-2, playoffs a given, and in the convo for serious AFC title contenders.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 21, 2022, 01:59:57 PM
What kind of contract do we anticipate Jimmy G getting?
I've seen delusional stuff on here like him getting high end backup money.
I think it's far more likely he's around the top 10 paid QB's
Edit looking here, I'd make an educated guess 30 million a year is a realistic ballpark. He's gonna be a UFA not like he's getting traded with no leverage
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 02:15:25 PM
Jimmy G on this team and likely we are 8-2, playoffs a given, and in the convo for serious AFC title contenders.
I wanted Jimmy G the moment Wilson grabbed his knee in the preseason
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 02:15:49 PM
Eh, I don't think Jimmy G is going to command any particular system.
He's played in a version of the one we run right now though.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 03:32:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NHglNqtMCw&ab_channel=KurtWarnerxQBConfidential
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 03:35:10 PM
Interesting.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 03:38:10 PM
Full play by play breakdown of Zach's game by Kurt Warner, if you're interested in spending 50 minutes watching it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NHglNqtMCw&ab_channel=KurtWarnerxQBConfidential
Kurt has been very fair. He criticizes the QB, the WRs, the blocking, and the play calling.
He's very good about highlighting lack of separation.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 21, 2022, 03:43:20 PM
Saleh is 75 minutes and county late to his Zoom meeting with reporters. He's apparently been in meetings. All the reporters are saying this is unusual.
Interesting.
Id imagine the universal assumption is this is related to Zach Wilson's play and the future of the QB position.
But I do think it's possible if not likely, that a lot of this could be because the Zach Wilson situation has become a public relations nightmare. I don't think I've ever seen a situation like this where a player this young has ever gotten absolutely destroyed like this by the media this much this soon in his career.
I don't think there's any saving Zach Wilson, but the Jets organization obviously is going to do everything they can to salvage him. And I think that's going to be impossible for someone as mentally feeble as Zach, when the talk of the entire sports world is that Zach Wilson is a piece of excrement and the worst starting QB in history.
It would make sense to me this being an all hands on deck situation to address the narrative, so that the football guys at least get an opportunity to address the football side of it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 03:44:42 PM
Id imagine the universal assumption is this is related to Zach Wilson's play and the future of the QB position.I think it's pretty fair to think this is about Zach in some way. Nobody knows for sure, but you would think that people are trying to figure out the best way to message SOMETHING publicly regarding Zach, whether it's getting on the same page on his comments yesterday or something bigger.
But I do think it's possible if not likely, that a lot of this could be because the Zach Wilson situation has become a public relations nightmare. I don't think I've ever seen a situation like this where a player this young has ever gotten absolutely destroyed like this by the media this much this soon in his career.
I don't think there's any saving Zach Wilson, but the Jets organization obviously is going to do everything they can to salvage him. And I think that's going to be impossible for someone as mentally feeble as Zach, when the talk of the entire sports world is that Zach Wilson is a piece of excrement and the worst starting QB in history.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 03:47:12 PM
Kurt has been very fair. He criticizes the QB, the WRs, the blocking, and the play calling.
He's very good about highlighting lack of separation.
I watched the first 15-20 minutes of it so far and it is a combination of "good play design, bad execution by Zach" and "Zach has no chance with this play because it's either badly designed or badly executed by the receivers".
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 03:49:51 PM
And it would be nice to be able to make a clearer judgment of who is to blame so it's easier to know the best ways to fix it.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 03:54:11 PM
I watched the first 15-20 minutes of it so far and it is a combination of "good play design, bad execution by Zach" and "Zach has no chance with this play because it's either badly designed or badly executed by the receivers".
He's as unbiased as it gets with this kind of stuff.
I think O'Sullivan can be a little biased.
Post by: mj2sexay on November 21, 2022, 03:56:29 PM
He was awful yesterday. Positively terrible.
Not one person did him any favors. Not the boy genius OC, not his receivers, not the running game averaging under 3 YAC, no one.
This team misses Corey Davis in the worst freaking way.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 04:12:31 PM
Interesting coincidence.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 04:13:01 PM
Oh excrement, there it is, Zach might not start.
Post by: Jumbo on November 21, 2022, 04:14:07 PM
https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1594815979325890568
Oh excrement, there it is, Zach might not start.
White Mike szn?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 04:14:41 PM
White Mike szn?Strevgod szn.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 21, 2022, 04:20:17 PM
Post by: steves850 on November 21, 2022, 04:20:45 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 04:22:41 PM
Regardless it sends a strong message. Even if ZW starts it tells the team he is no longer untouchable. Split first team reps with White Mike. Like Wilson start and if he shits the bed bench him at half time.Yesterday was a clear turning point regardless. I never thought White was coming in on Sunday, but after the presser, I thought there was a real chance White could come in mid-game.
I didn't think it would happen this quickly with a starting change, but it also wouldn't surprise me.
It definitely adds urgency to Zach's development, which is fair considering his lack of production and the team's urgency for winning games.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 21, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
I think you're in a tough position as far as Mike White
Either you commit to him right now (which were obviously not going to do), throw him in with limited snaps, or you'll end up starting him at Minnesota or at Buffalo for his first games.
I suppose best scenario for White would be splitting snaps now, and getting put in after the half vs the bears.
Otherwise it'll be an unpleasant first game
(nevermind. Turns out the Vikings have one of the worst pass defenses in the league. Plus they play indoors, solid game to start)
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 04:30:09 PM
Not many easy landing spots in the NFL. Gotta grow up fast. And White isn't some young prospect. I have no problem throwing him to the wolves.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 04:33:05 PM
Alternatively, you spend the week coming to Jesus with Wilson, the offensive coaching staff, the defense, you get everyone right with each other and behaving like grown men who are honest with themselves and each other, you build a smart and collaborative game plan and you have your supposed franchise QB execute the gameplan to comfortably beat Chicago. Now you're going to a wobbly Minny and a Bills team you've already beaten having grown and learned and put it down to that freaking Belichick curse.
I honestly don't know what the right thing to do is. This is where Saleh really has to make his bones as a head coach, put his friendships aside and don't spare the feelings. I think this could be a pivotal moment in his and Wilson's careers.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 04:36:13 PM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1594815630623969280
Interesting coincidence.
he chewed out LaFleur/Calabrese and had to call Matt to apologize
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 04:37:14 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 21, 2022, 04:37:39 PM
making him compete for the job isn't necessarily a bad thing
Hopefully it lights a fire under Zach's derriere.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2022, 04:42:29 PM
Post by: steves850 on November 21, 2022, 04:43:28 PM
If White starts, looks competent, and we defy The Coin, this board is going to be a bloodbath next Monday.
I'll take that every time rather than the depression and frustration from this Monday.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 21, 2022, 04:45:19 PM
If we don't start Zach I will be supportive and understand why, but here's my concern. No other QB on the roster is actually any good, but Chicago's front seven is really not good either. Second fewest sacks in the league, fifth worst first down percentage, second most rushing yards given up, most rushing TDs conceded. Put any of our scrubs under center, bring Herbig back in, call the game sensibly, and we can and should win this one pretty comfortably. You've now made it impossible to bring Wilson back in despite his replacement having done nothing to earn the job, and now we're going into Minnesota and Buffalo with another disaster under center.
Alternatively, you spend the week coming to Jesus with Wilson, the offensive coaching staff, the defense, you get everyone right with each other and behaving like grown men who are honest with themselves and each other, you build a smart and collaborative game plan and you have your supposed franchise QB execute the gameplan to comfortably beat Chicago. Now you're going to a wobbly Minny and a Bills team you've already beaten having grown and learned and put it down to that freaking Belichick curse.
I honestly don't know what the right thing to do is. This is where Saleh really has to make his bones as a head coach, put his friendships aside and don't spare the feelings. I think this could be a pivotal moment in his and Wilson's careers.
I think they go with your second option, work like hell this week to get it right. Give Zach the shot to prove he gets to keep his job. If he fails in the first half, send in the next QB. If he succeeds in executing the game plan, that’s the best case scenario.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 04:47:51 PM
If we don't start Zach I will be supportive and understand why, but here's my concern. No other QB on the roster is actually any good, but Chicago's front seven is really not good either. Second fewest sacks in the league, fifth worst first down percentage, second most rushing yards given up, most rushing TDs conceded. Put any of our scrubs under center, bring Herbig back in, call the game sensibly, and we can and should win this one pretty comfortably. You've now made it impossible to bring Wilson back in despite his replacement having done nothing to earn the job, and now we're going into Minnesota and Buffalo with another disaster under center.I think the real question is....
Alternatively, you spend the week coming to Jesus with Wilson, the offensive coaching staff, the defense, you get everyone right with each other and behaving like grown men who are honest with themselves and each other, you build a smart and collaborative game plan and you have your supposed franchise QB execute the gameplan to comfortably beat Chicago. Now you're going to a wobbly Minny and a Bills team you've already beaten having grown and learned and put it down to that freaking Belichick curse.
I honestly don't know what the right thing to do is. This is where Saleh really has to make his bones as a head coach, put his friendships aside and don't spare the feelings. I think this could be a pivotal moment in his and Wilson's careers.
What does Zach Wilson need to do the rest of the season to prove he's the guy you want to start in 2023? Is it reasonably possible?
Zach needs to take SERIOUS strides for me to trust him as the guy for next season. Not like "oh, he went 14-21 for 210 yds with mostly YAC and 0 TD."
And if that's the bar to trust Zach for next season, then you just make the best decision for 2022.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 04:49:51 PM
I think they go with your second option, work like hell this week to get it right. Give Zach the shot to prove he gets to keep his job. If he fails in the first half, send in the next QB. If he succeeds in executing the game plan, that’s the best case scenario.
And I'm supportive if they do that but for me, the prerequisite to even considering that is him first of all understanding how his attitude after the game was completely wrong, and dealing with the fall out that he has caused. You can have a bad game, but to not own it with your teammates is unacceptable.
If his attitude isn't completely adjusted he shouldn't be crossing the line, because he's not going to have the respect in the huddle.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2022, 04:52:27 PM
I think the real question is....
What does Zach Wilson need to do the rest of the season to prove he's the guy you want to start in 2023? Is it reasonably possible?
Zach needs to take SERIOUS strides for me to trust him as the guy for next season. Not like "oh, he went 14-21 for 210 yds with mostly YAC and 0 TD."
And if that's the bar to trust Zach for next season, then you just make the best decision for 2022.
I don't know but he has to be out there in order to prove anything, good or bad. Now I've calmed down from last night the optimist in me says that facing up to our and his problems is unavoidable, and this is the time that will make or break him so he has to be given the chance to prove he can learn from it. But I'm not in Florham Park so I don't know how he's behaving and thinking, or how the coaches are behaving or thinking. I'm just conjecturing on the internet and hoping to have a bit more fun for the next few Sundays than I did yesterday, and I'm pretty sure Mike White isn't doing that for me.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 04:55:44 PM
I don't know but he has to be out there in order to prove anything, good or bad. Now I've calmed down from last night the optimist in me says that facing up to our and his problems is unavoidable, and this is the time that will make or break him so he has to be given the chance to prove he can learn from it. But I'm not in Florham Park so I don't know how he's behaving and thinking, or how the coaches are behaving or thinking. I'm just conjecturing on the internet and hoping to have a bit more fun for the next few Sundays than I did yesterday, and I'm pretty sure Mike White isn't doing that for me.He's proven a lot of bad. He needs to prove a LOT of good the rest of the season for us to go into 2023 as the guy. I don't know if that's even realistic. Not to mention the locker room stuff. Saleh might need to go to White just to save the locker room right now.
2023 could be a Super Bowl run. Look at this roster when it's healthy. And add one more year of development for the young guys.
Plus, if we can't get a clear-cut average or better starter next year, Wilson might be in a competition. We keep mentioning Jimmy G, but Jimmy G isn't that good. If Wilson turns into the guy we drafted him to be, why can't he beat out Jimmy G next year?
The more I've thought about this since last night, you worry about the short term in 2022. For the first time in forever, winning is more important than development.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 05:03:52 PM
The play caller isn't changing yet, but I bet some fingers are definitely being pointed in those staff meetings.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 21, 2022, 05:06:46 PM
The question at this point is. Can Zach show enough to where we can bring in a guy that's got starter potential to compete with him (think this is your Mayfield or Darnold tier player)
Or will Zach be so shitty the rest of the season that we're willing to go out and commit to a bonified starter who no questions is replacing him and effectively ending his career (Jimmy G, Carr, Rodgers etc)
To me those are the scenarios
Post by: Libero_2 on November 21, 2022, 05:15:57 PM
Sounds to me like Saleh held court and they decided to make some changes with personnel.
The play caller isn't changing yet, but I bet some fingers are definitely being pointed in those staff meetings.
I hope that’s exactly what Saleh did.
What I have no idea is, who the hell gets to call plays if not LaFleur? Do we even have anyone else on staff that’s called offensive plays? My guess is Ron Middleton would be the guy, but only because he was interim HC when Saleh was out last year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 05:29:57 PM
I hope that’s exactly what Saleh did.Saleh also said they thought they were fine schematically. My read on Saleh is that he has a ton of faith in LaFleur, and it's more personnel that's the issue (mainly QB). He also keeps saying other positions, though WR is really the only position that really makes sense for. You could say RB, but we've always had a RB rotation, and I don't see that changing.
What I have no idea is, who the hell gets to call plays if not LaFleur? Do we even have anyone else on staff that’s called offensive plays? My guess is Ron Middleton would be the guy, but only because he was interim HC when Saleh was out last year.
Edit: Saleh flat out said during his presser they aren't changing the playcaller.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 21, 2022, 06:10:24 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2022, 06:58:28 PM
Wilson blanket party confirmed.
Post by: Coach K on November 21, 2022, 07:15:39 PM
If White starts, looks competent, and we defy The Coin, this board is going to be a bloodbath next Monday.The coin can eat my derriere
Post by: mj2sexay on November 21, 2022, 08:03:08 PM
Saleh also said they thought they were fine schematically.
That's not reassuring in the least.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:30:10 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:30:41 PM
That's not reassuring in the least.
We got outschemed by freaking Matt Patricia and Joe Judge
Post by: delavan on November 21, 2022, 08:31:05 PM
The coin can eat my derrierehttps://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/nvhfem/my_butthole_is_shaped_more_like_a_coin_slot/ : )
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 08:32:01 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 09:21:43 PM
That's not reassuring in the least.Depends. They may just think the QB is so bad that it doesn't matter. Maybe they're right. But if they replace Wilson, then the microscope is much more on MLF.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 10:07:47 PM
Idk man
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2022, 10:17:08 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2022, 10:22:20 PM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594492260133003264?s=46&t=QtiXjd0xbvUsrrDitNerfgHe has sucked almost entirely for 2 full years. It's one thing to give a young QB a chance. But the QB needs to give you reasons to keep giving him a chance.
Idk man
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2022, 10:26:36 PM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1594492260133003264?s=46&t=QtiXjd0xbvUsrrDitNerfg
Idk man
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594668545685786626?s=20&t=HQqzsP8VKN7tgFThgdHDNQ
"I have no idea what's happening but I'm going to break this excrement down anyway!"
Post by: Jumbo on November 21, 2022, 10:49:20 PM
George Orwell once said that there are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them. In football, some quarterbacks are so awful that only a football mind could believe in them.
Post by: insanity on November 21, 2022, 11:29:49 PM
https://youtu.be/6NHglNqtMCw
Post by: mj2sexay on November 21, 2022, 11:54:44 PM
Kurt Warner who has trashed zach plenty times before, has me feeling better about zach
https://youtu.be/6NHglNqtMCw
I don't expect Saleh to come out in a press conference and excrement on his offensive coordinator, but we have to hope behind closed doors adjustments are being made given some of what can be seen on film.
As much as I love #17, he did not play well.
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2022, 12:28:00 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 02:12:37 AM
Kurt Warner who has trashed zach plenty times before, has me feeling better about zachReally good video.
https://youtu.be/6NHglNqtMCw
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 22, 2022, 07:25:21 AM
Really good video.
I wonder if he's interested in a job.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 22, 2022, 07:34:00 AM
Why Saleh was late (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221122/65c8a87a14563ce5f62c2a2448438f39.jpg)
Man I hope so
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2022, 07:37:40 AM
Man I hope soI defended him as much as I could but thst ppst game presser reeks of a entitled queynte who simply doesnt get it
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2022, 07:47:00 AM
Post by: insanity on November 22, 2022, 07:48:09 AM
I defended him as much as I could but thst ppst game presser reeks of a entitled queynte who simply doesnt get itMeh. After watching the whole press conference o think he was fine. Connor got him with the question as he was walking off the podium and I think he was just trying to get out of there. Its a bad look but with the rest of the context I think its just a learning experience
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2022, 08:31:19 AM
Meh. After watching the whole press conference o think he was fine. Connor got him with the question as he was walking off the podium and I think he was just trying to get out of there. Its a bad look but with the rest of the context I think its just a learning experienceWe've learned be can't read the first 15 yards of the field in front of him and that he'd rather deflect than dive on tbe grenade appropriately
This is leadership and media 101
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2022, 08:32:51 AM
He looks to progress vs Buffalo then looked useless
We all know it's a combo of MLF and Wilson but im not making any more experience or whatever excuses
Training wheels are off and this kid will get pulled if he doesn't show up for the 1st half
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2022, 08:49:08 AM
All the excuses are valid but hes shell-shocked. When actually given a pocket hes reacting like the play blew up
He looks to progress vs Buffalo then looked useless
We all know it's a combo of MLF and Wilson but im not making any more experience or whatever excuses
Training wheels are off and this kid will get pulled if he doesn't show up for the 1st half
I think this is the most sound approach.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 22, 2022, 09:09:50 AM
I defended him as much as I could but thst ppst game presser reeks of a entitled queynte who simply doesnt get it
I was willing to be patient but you can't be that bad and suddenly improve, you have to start from some base level of competence. He just doesn't.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 09:10:14 AM
Post by: Johnny English on November 22, 2022, 09:12:38 AM
I was willing to be patient but you can't be that bad and suddenly improve, you have to start from some base level of competence. He just doesn't.
That's not true. He is more than competent, he's just wildly inconsistent. I think he's far from a lost cause, but we are under some pressure to win now.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 09:15:03 AM
That's not true. He is more than competent, he's just wildly inconsistent. I think he's far from a lost cause, but we are under some pressure to win now.
Zach has the physical attributes to be an elite QB. It's his mental game that needs work.
We said the same excrement about Geno. The problem is the fan base ran out of patience 2 regimes ago.
Post by: steves850 on November 22, 2022, 09:18:16 AM
Zach needs to regain his confidence, freak Puck's mom, and bring home a win next Sunday.
As someone who has fucked Puck's mom. You don't feel better about yourself afterwards....
Post by: Badger on November 22, 2022, 09:19:00 AM
Depends. They may just think the QB is so bad that it doesn't matter. Maybe they're right. But if they replace Wilson, then the microscope is much more on MLF.That's an underrated argument for benching Zach, finding out if the offense still looks like this with another QB. Not like you can bench MLF.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 22, 2022, 09:20:24 AM
That's not true. He is more than competent, he's just wildly inconsistent. I think he's far from a lost cause, but we are under some pressure to win now.
I have to disagree, he can't do the simple things. For freak sake he's so inaccurate on swing and screen passes. Simple excrement to calm him,down and get in a rhythm.
I honestly believe he is a lost cause. Unlike most, I really hope this time next year you guys are serving me crow. I will happily eat it. I just think that's highly unlikely- like 90 percent.
Post by: insanity on November 22, 2022, 09:21:47 AM
With Sam you saw the bone headed mistakes in college and they transferred to the pros. The mistakes he's making isn't consistent with his college tape. The only hope I have right now is that the majority of his problems are mechanical and that the system isn't working for him which kind of makes sense.
Is it akin to russel wilson in denver right now? Neither of these qbs are rhythm quarterbacks so this Shanahan offense is more of a hinderance than anything?
Post by: Miamipuck on November 22, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Zach needs to regain his confidence, freak Puck's mom, and bring home a win next Sunday.
You think he will go to the icu to do that for her?
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 09:25:07 AM
What has me flabbergasted is that this inaccuracy wasn't a thing at byu.
With Sam you saw the bone headed mistakes in college and they transferred to the pros. The mistakes he's making isn't consistent with his college tape. The only hope I have right now is that the majority of his problems are mechanical and that the system isn't working for him which kind of makes sense.
Is it akin to russel wilson in denver right now? Neither of these qbs are rhythm quarterbacks so this Shanahan offense is more of a hinderance than anything?
This has been my argument all along. I don't understand how MLF gets a free pass with most of you.
Zach wasn't a bumblefuck with the ball at BYU, he ran an efficient offense.
Russell Wilson under Hackett is a nice comparison. The only difference is we haven't seen Zach with a different OC at the NFL level yet. I'll reserve judgement on him until that happens.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 09:25:50 AM
You think he will go to the icu to do that for her?
oh no...didn't know, bro. I hope mom feels better and gets out of the icu.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 22, 2022, 09:26:14 AM
What has me flabbergasted is that this inaccuracy wasn't a thing at byu.
With Sam you saw the bone headed mistakes in college and they transferred to the pros. The mistakes he's making isn't consistent with his college tape. The only hope I have right now is that the majority of his problems are mechanical and that the system isn't working for him which kind of makes sense.
Is it akin to russel wilson in denver right now? Neither of these qbs are rhythm quarterbacks so this Shanahan offense is more of a hinderance than anything?
His footwork is complete trash right now. In that Nania cutup he never plants his back foot and is trying to whip the ball with his upper body. So many underthrows, overthrows, dirted balls that just shouldn’t be happening. I don’t know football mechanics that well but it’s clear his are excrement and leading to inaccuracy on simple throws.
I said in the offseason this was the biggest thing I needed him to clean up for me to gain confidence in him and if anything it’s gotten worse.
He also changes his arm angle and and throws sidearm when he doesn’t need to. Work on completing passes overhand first before we graduate to that.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 09:28:21 AM
Post by: steves850 on November 22, 2022, 09:28:28 AM
You think he will go to the icu to do that for her?
Sorry to hear that as well. Hope everything works out.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 09:30:15 AM
Post by: steves850 on November 22, 2022, 09:30:28 AM
Who would be the dream free agent to bring in? I think Lamar is the obvious choice but I can't imagine he walks. I think Jimmy G or Carr. Minshew may be interesting as competition but I assume we'll know whether Zach is the future before free agency.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 09:32:10 AM
Free Agent QBs 2023 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback)
Who would be the dream free agent to bring in? I think Lamar is the obvious choice but I can't imagine he walks. I think Jimmy G or Carr. Minshew may be interesting as competition but I assume we'll know whether Zach is the future before free agency.
Jimmy G is the only QB i've seen run the Shanahan/MLF offense efficiently. If MLF is retained, he'd be the guy. But his injury history frightens me.
He also has one of the quickest releases in the NFL, probably why he thrives in that system.
Post by: insanity on November 22, 2022, 09:34:02 AM
To preface, I'm not saying zach will be josh allen or that everything will be okay, but which Stateline would you prefer
Josh Allen (Home vs NWE)
13/27 (46%) 153 yds 0 tds 3 int 8 4 sacks
Zach Wilson (@NWE)
9/22 (41%) 77 yds 0 tds 0 int 4 sacks
excrement is bad, but his career isn't over
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2022, 09:35:14 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 09:38:12 AM
That's not true. He is more than competent, he's just wildly inconsistent. I think he's far from a lost cause, but we are under some pressure to win now.I don't know what evidence we have to say he's more than competent. If you can't be competent for 4 straight quarters, you're not confident.
That's the frustrating thing for me. His pattern seems to be "play pretty well for 1.5 quarters, then something goes wrong, and he spirals and gets worse. That's been a consistent pattern.
Even on Sunday, he wasn't good early, but he was making decent decisions. But it never lasts.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 22, 2022, 09:40:54 AM
oh no...didn't know, bro. I hope mom feels better and gets out of the icu.
Good I hope you feel like divk for bringing up my 80 year old mother with that dipshiy. Now if you said it was Namath, she as healthy as a horse.
The Green Hornet strikes again.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 09:41:56 AM
Zach has to mature before he has any hope of being a consistent starter. I don't think he's going to do that on the field under this kind of pressure.He's the quarterback of the New York football team who is mid-late in his 2nd season. He's going to have some pressure.
We've tried coddling him publicly and that has not worked. Now, we try to light a fire under his derriere. Hopefully that makes him mature faster.
And I think it's good for the locker room after what he said post-game. Make it clear that he's not doing a good enough job, and that the goal is performance, not development.
I think Wilson starts this week, but we're at the point where we can't afford to drop many more games because of bad QB play.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 09:42:23 AM
Good I hope you feel like divk for bringing up my 80 year old mother with that dipshiy. Now if you said it was Namath, she as healthy as a horse.
lol
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 09:45:46 AM
He's the quarterback of the New York football team who is mid-late in his 2nd season. He's going to have some pressure.
We've tried coddling him publicly and that has not worked. Now, we try to light a fire under his derriere. Hopefully that makes him mature faster.
And I think it's good for the locker room after what he said post-game. Make it clear that he's not doing a good enough job, and that the goal is performance, not development.
I think Wilson starts this week, but we're at the point where we can't afford to drop many more games because of bad QB play.
I think you need to dial it back. The kid is 23 years old, he's only played 17 freaking games. That equates to 1 full season.
I know you want the playoff berth, but it might not happen. We were all going to be satisfied with a .500 record at the beginning of the year, and call that progress.
Let the kid work his excrement out and grow. He's already working with a excrement OC, so maybe cut him some slack. And before you bring up the press conference, yeah he wasn't professional (albeit Connor Hughes is a queynte hair, Zach will learn to rise above that crap), but he probably hates what the coaches are trying to do to him and is just as frustrated as the rest of us .
Post by: Johnny English on November 22, 2022, 09:54:40 AM
I don't know what evidence we have to say he's more than competent. If you can't be competent for 4 straight quarters, you're not confident.
That's the frustrating thing for me. His pattern seems to be "play pretty well for 1.5 quarters, then something goes wrong, and he spirals and gets worse. That's been a consistent pattern.
Even on Sunday, he wasn't good early, but he was making decent decisions. But it never lasts.
I think it depends on how you define "competent". I would say that the Buffalo performance falls very much into that territory, as does Pittsburgh - execute the gameplan, don't do stupid things, hit on the things that the defense is giving you, win the game. He's shown us he can be competent by those criteria. What he has never shown an ability to do is put the team on his back for a game and go win it off the back of his play - he's certainly tried and that's when he's been exposed, and if that's your definition of competent then he's definitely falling short.
Right now I'd very happy for him to be nothing more than a mediocre game manager, because even with key players missing and question marks over playcalling and scheme the defense is good enough that you only have to convert a couple of drives into points to stand a decent chance of winning a game. We know he can do that because he has, which is why I say that I consider him competent but not consistent.
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2022, 10:09:18 AM
I dont care what camp you're in that's an indictment on Zach
He refuses to get rid of the ball quickly and his mechanics are absolutely awful
I'm flipping my 80/20 to 50/50
I almost want to see someone else behind center just to see if I need to ppind the table for a FA QB, a new OC, or both
I forgot who brought it up last night . It'd be a lot easier to take a Vet QB with MLF then to hope someone comes in and reclaims Zach
Hes got the tools we all know it . But hes playing for his career This weekend . That's if they even let him start come sunday
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2022, 10:10:44 AM
I think it depends on how you define "competent". I would say that the Buffalo performance falls very much into that territory, as does Pittsburgh - execute the gameplan, don't do stupid things, hit on the things that the defense is giving you, win the game. He's shown us he can be competent by those criteria. What he has never shown an ability to do is put the team on his back for a game and go win it off the back of his play - he's certainly tried and that's when he's been exposed, and if that's your definition of competent then he's definitely falling short.This . But the defense is ahead of schedule so now we have an actual window
Right now I'd very happy for him to be nothing more than a mediocre game manager, because even with key players missing and question marks over playcalling and scheme the defense is good enough that you only have to convert a couple of drives into points to stand a decent chance of winning a game. We know he can do that because he has, which is why I say that I consider him competent but not consistent.
Hence the heat being turned up and the hot seat getting ready for a QB OC or both
The Buffalo game had me thinking we were gonna at least have efficient but not spectacular offensive play
Which is all we need with this D
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2022, 10:11:07 AM
He's the quarterback of the New York football team who is mid-late in his 2nd season. He's going to have some pressure.
We've tried coddling him publicly and that has not worked. Now, we try to light a fire under his derriere. Hopefully that makes him mature faster.
And I think it's good for the locker room after what he said post-game. Make it clear that he's not doing a good enough job, and that the goal is performance, not development.
I think Wilson starts this week, but we're at the point where we can't afford to drop many more games because of bad QB play.
It might help him. I personally don't think it will. We'll see.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 10:17:04 AM
I think you need to dial it back. The kid is 23 years old, he's only played 17 freaking games. That equates to 1 full season.He's started 20 NFL games. He would have started more, but he's gotten hurt both seasons. I don't view him getting injured twice as a good reason to extend his timeline. Part of being QB is staying on the field.
I know you want the playoff berth, but it might not happen. We were all going to be satisfied with a .500 record at the beginning of the year, and call that progress.
Let the kid work his excrement out and grow. He's already working with a excrement OC, so maybe cut him some slack. And before you bring up the press conference, yeah he wasn't professional (albeit Connor Hughes is a queynte hair, Zach will learn to rise above that crap), but he probably hates what the coaches are trying to do to him and is just as frustrated as the rest of us .
You keep saying things like "I know you want the playoff berth." That implies you don't care about the playoffs. We haven't been to the playoffs since 2010 and we have a legitimate chance to get there now. We have a defense that isn't just playoff-worthy - it's one of the best in the NFL. And there are probably only 2 teams in the NFL that look scary on paper, and we already beat one of them.
We'd all be fine with him being a mediocre game manager. But that's a very low bar, and while he sometimes meets it, he never exceeds it. I am fine continuing to start Zach, but I think threatening his job is totally fair after last week and the way he handled it post-game. It's going to be difficult for Zach to do enough down the stretch where we are confident in him in 2023 anyway.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 10:20:17 AM
It might help him. I personally don't think it will. We'll see.I don't know if it will either, but I think it's worth trying. Even if it's all for show, just to appease the defense/locker room.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2022, 10:24:03 AM
I don't know if it will either, but I think it's worth trying. Even if it's all for show, just to appease the defense/locker room.
I'm expecting him to start the game. I don't think that it is a given that he finishes it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 10:27:51 AM
I'm expecting him to start the game. I don't think that it is a given that he finishes it.Same. Especially since it's at home. I'm very curious what the reaction will be to Zach from the fanbase. I expect some Mike White chants.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 10:45:22 AM
He absolutely has to respond. If he doesn't then we likely move on for the rest of 2022 and we're looking for competition/replacement in 2023.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2022, 10:48:00 AM
Same. Especially since it's at home. I'm very curious what the reaction will be to Zach from the fanbase. I expect some Mike White chants.
One thing he has going for him is that the Bears' pass rush is the second weakest in the NFL. Our OLine, bad as it is, only gave up 3 sacks to the second best in the league last week; 3 is a lot but it's far less than you'd expect from an offensive line currently being touted as the worst the team has had in years. Pressure from the pass rush shouldn't be an issue for him on Sunday.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 10:56:31 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 11:12:48 AM
Mack...can you explain to me why Russell Wilson is having a shitty year when he's a veteran superbowl winning QB in the prime of his career, with plenty of weapons at his disposal and a decent oline?Zero idea how this is relevant, but I'll bite.
1. He's a 5'11" quarterback who has been sacked 459 times in his career and turns 34 next week. He might just be getting old and not "in the prime of his career."
2. I would argue the Jets are better at basically every position on offense than Denver (OL, TE, WR, RB).
3. Hackett seems awful.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 11:13:37 AM
Our OLine, bad as it is, only gave up 3 sacks to the second best in the league last week
Wilson deserves some credit here too. He got out of a few tough spots with his legs.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 22, 2022, 11:17:02 AM
Wilson deserves some credit here too. He got out of a few tough spots with his legs.
Yeah, but he gets in worse situations with his mind and indecision. At least one sack was on him, he should have easily seen that coming, and god knows how many pressures are the result of that moron not being able to read what's going on?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 11:17:24 AM
One thing he has going for him is that the Bears' pass rush is the second weakest in the NFL. Our OLine, bad as it is, only gave up 3 sacks to the second best in the league last week; 3 is a lot but it's far less than you'd expect from an offensive line currently being touted as the worst the team has had in years. Pressure from the pass rush shouldn't be an issue for him on Sunday.Yep. And that's why I think this is a good week to be having this QB discussion.
If you keep going with Zach, this is a good week for him to have a bounceback spot. While I'm critical of Wilson, he has faced a difficult schedule. He should be able to have success. And if he doesn't, then that's another damning sign, and maybe a sign to go with White in the 2nd half.
And if you go with White, it's a good game for him to gain some confidence as we head down the stretch.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 11:20:59 AM
Zero idea how this is relevant, but I'll bite.
1. He's a 5'11" quarterback who has been sacked 459 times in his career and turns 34 next week. He might just be getting old and not "in the prime of his career."
2. I would argue the Jets are better at basically every position on offense than Denver (OL, TE, WR, RB).
3. Hackett seems awful.
QBs who are past their prime don't get 240 million dollar contracts, but ok.
The Jets aren't better at WR, but i'm not here to argue that.
I care about #3, because Russell wasn't awful in Seattle...he is in Denver. Different system obviously. The same issue is probably holding Zach back. MLF isn't doing a good job. What i can't figure out is why you and a few others are choosing a wet-behind-the-ears OC over a young QB. I could be wrong too...but you guys seem determined to flush Zach down the toilet pretty quickly.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 11:37:09 AM
QBs who are past their prime don't get 240 million dollar contracts, but ok.The salary argument is idiotic. In-their-prime HOF quarterbacks don't get traded either. Unless there's something wrong with them. And while Wilson is a pain in the derriere, he had also been declining the last few years, and the Broncos offense isn't that talented. There's a reason the Seahawks were willing to trade for him. Guys sign big contracts and quickly decline all the time. It doesn't happen at QB as often, but 5'11" QBs usually don't lead the NFL in sacks. I think we'll see a lot of these mobile QBs start to decline earlier.
The Jets aren't better at WR, but i'm not here to argue that.
I care about #3, because Russell wasn't awful in Seattle...he is in Denver. Different system obviously. The same issue is probably holding Zach back. MLF isn't doing a good job. What i can't figure out is why you and a few others are choosing a wet-behind-the-ears OC over a young QB. I could be wrong too...but you guys seem determined to flush Zach down the toilet pretty quickly.
Courtland Sutton is basically Corey Davis. I'll take Garrett Wilson over Jerry Jeudy. And I'll take Elijah Moore over whoever their WR3 is right now (Hinton? Hamler? Cleveland?).
I've seen enough from Zach Wilson where it seems unlikely he takes a big leap forward by next season, which is what we need from him. If the Jets decide to give Zach another shot next year (with a veteran) and move on from LaFleur, I'm not going to be upset. But if you ask me who the biggest problem is, I think it's clearly Zach.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 22, 2022, 11:41:49 AM
QBs who are past their prime don't get 240 million dollar contracts, but ok.
The Jets aren't better at WR, but i'm not here to argue that.
I care about #3, because Russell wasn't awful in Seattle...he is in Denver. Different system obviously. The same issue is probably holding Zach back. MLF isn't doing a good job. What i can't figure out is why you and a few others are choosing a wet-behind-the-ears OC over a young QB. I could be wrong too...but you guys seem determined to flush Zach down the toilet pretty quickly.
The reality is almost certainly “a little of column A and a little of column B”
You want to put 97% of the blame on LaFleur. Fans want to blame the QB because most of us have never had food QB play, and in the end, none of those QBs were ever good enough. So chances are, it’s probably as much the QB as anything else. Note: this doesn’t make the OC actually good.
As for Russel Wilson, just because somebody paid him $240 million doesn’t mean he’s in his prime and about to perform effectively. We paid LeVeon Bell and Trumaine Johnson a freak ton of money and those guys were supposed to be entering their prime. Turns out they were already washed. Wilson showed signs of declining last year and that’s part of why Seattle moved on. It sure as excrement wasn’t because they thought Geno Smith was about to become this player this year.
As for the OC argument, Hackett just helped Rodgers win an MVP, and Rodgers endorsed the guy. Now his trigger man (Russel Wilson) isn’t getting it done and he looks like a disaster. But Rodgers has also taken a big step back this year. Is that because Rodgers old offense (captained by Hackett) was superior? Isn’t that the same thing he brought to Denver? Can Wilson not operate that offense? Or did Rodgers HOF caliber play just simply execute a excrement offense in the best way possible?
Is LaFleur good? Almost certainly not. Is Zach Wilson good? Almost certainly not. Neither is good enough, and neither has been good enough through 20 games of working together. The reality is a good player can still execute a shitty plan well. Watching Warners videos, it’s clear there are plenty of bad plays put out there. But even so, there are lots of plays where Zach has options and either doesn’t tKe them, processes too slowly or does the processing right and fucks up his footwork leading to terrible throws. If Zach was secretly good, he’d be making more plays even with the trash scheme.
Again it all is about their performance against the Patriots. I don’t know how or why, but the mystique of Bill Belicheck towers over this franchises QBs and OCs and he has owned all of us for 20 years and we haven’t even come close to conquering the fucker (not really) since that overtime game in 2015. Belicheck brings out the worst in jets QBs and Coaches. So it’s quite likely the last 2 games against them are the worst either will do this year.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 11:42:15 AM
Yeah, but he gets in worse situations with his mind and indecision. At least one sack was on him, he should have easily seen that coming, and god knows how many pressures are the result of that moron not being able to read what's going on?
Our offensive line is horrendous, especially the right side. The nickel blitz where he got blindsided was probably on him not reading it at the line, but I'm not sure he's allowed to make many checks at the line.
The Kurt Warner breakdown is very good. A lot of it is on him, but there are times when the OL does it's job but the receivers just aren't open at all.
His completion percentage against pressure is impacted by two things: he panics but he also has no where to go horizontally with the football on most of those plays. LaFleur is always attacking down the field. If Zach's eyes are dropping, he needs a true check down out of the backfield. We need to stop going five wide and make things easier, even if it's far less aggressive.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 11:45:51 AM
- Joe Flacco (5) has more Pass TD than Zach Wilson this season (4).
- The Jets have five 300-yard passing games under LaFleur. Zach has 1 of them (the first Pats game).
I'm not saying those numbers mean everything, but it's hard for me to think it's 100% LaFleur's fault when he's had other QBs here in limited action, and Zach has generally produced the worst out of all of them.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 11:47:11 AM
Two interesting stats
- Joe Flacco (5) has more Pass TD than Zach Wilson this season (4).
- The Jets have five 300-yard passing games under LaFleur. Zach has 1 of them (the first Pats game).
I'm not saying those numbers mean everything, but it's hard for me to think it's 100% LaFleur's fault when he's had other QBs here in limited action, and Zach has generally produced the worst out of all of them.
Yeah that fluke TD to Corey Davis in the Cleveland game was all LaFleur
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2022, 11:48:57 AM
His completion percentage against pressure is impacted by two things: he panics but he also has no where to go horizontally with the football on most of those plays. LaFleur is always attacking down the field. If Zach's eyes are dropping, he needs a true check down out of the backfield. We need to stop going five wide and make things easier, even if it's far less aggressive.
This is the one thing I hate about MLF. I will bury both him and Zach because the things both are doing sets the other one back
It's like two guys trying to get water off a sinking ship and they take turns throwing it to eachotjers side lol
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 11:51:07 AM
I can't comprehend sending Mims in motion and swinging him the football in the flat when we have Berrios and Moore on the roster. It's personnel mismanagement.
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2022, 11:51:51 AM
Yeah that fluke TD to Corey Davis in the Cleveland game was all LaFleurWilson would never make that game winning throw to Wilson though
We all know Flacco ain't tbe answer . Zachs indecisiveness to let it rip and get the ball out sucks
Again this is half MLF half Zach loterally not being able to take the gimme plays when they're actually there
Either way Zach either nuts up and proves he was here for a reason
Or he can go freak Manhattan socialites and ride the bench
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 12:06:56 PM
The salary argument is idiotic. In-their-prime HOF quarterbacks don't get traded either. Unless there's something wrong with them. And while Wilson is a pain in the derriere, he had also been declining the last few years, and the Broncos offense isn't that talented. There's a reason the Seahawks were willing to trade for him. Guys sign big contracts and quickly decline all the time. It doesn't happen at QB as often, but 5'11" QBs usually don't lead the NFL in sacks. I think we'll see a lot of these mobile QBs start to decline earlier.Lol idiotic...you really make it very hard to resist taking a excrement on your face in this forum.
Courtland Sutton is basically Corey Davis. I'll take Garrett Wilson over Jerry Jeudy. And I'll take Elijah Moore over whoever their WR3 is right now (Hinton? Hamler? Cleveland?).
I've seen enough from Zach Wilson where it seems unlikely he takes a big leap forward by next season, which is what we need from him. If the Jets decide to give Zach another shot next year (with a veteran) and move on from LaFleur, I'm not going to be upset. But if you ask me who the biggest problem is, I think it's clearly Zach.
I disagree with you on this. And I could leave it at that, but you just cant help being a smug virgin
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 12:10:34 PM
Wilson would never make that game winning throw to Wilson though
I mean he led us down the field to beat Pittsburgh. He's shown flashes. The TD he threw to Conklin against New England in the first matchup is one of the better throws of the year.
I'm not out on him yet because of who we've played against and who we've played without. I'm interested to see how he plays versus a bad defense with his back against the wall.
We started the year with what we thought was a tremendous supporting cast, but it's unraveled. Garrett Wilson is our only legitimate receiver. Breece Hall is on IR. The rebuilt OL is depleted.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2022, 12:11:12 PM
Wilson deserves some credit here too. He got out of a few tough spots with his legs.
I figured that was a given since he was the leading rusher on Sunday.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 12:12:01 PM
I figured that was a given since he was the leading rusher on Sunday.
Ty Johnson made sure of that
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2022, 12:15:23 PM
Ty Johnson made sure of that
I really don't know what this means.
Was it Ty Johnson's 4 carries or his 3 targets?
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 12:16:47 PM
I really don't know what this means.
Was it Ty Johnson's 4 carries or his 3 targets?
yes
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 12:22:16 PM
I really don't know what this means.
Was it Ty Johnson's 4 carries or his 3 targets?
give those carries to Carter and he's likely our leading rusher
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 12:33:23 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2022, 12:36:09 PM
give those carries to Carter and he's likely our leading rusherI...k?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 12:40:38 PM
I mean he led us down the field to beat Pittsburgh. He's shown flashes. The TD he threw to Conklin against New England in the first matchup is one of the better throws of the year.Yep. That's why I would start him this week. But I like that we basically put his back against the wall. His back SHOULD be against the wall given how he's played for 2 years, and how the team is right there in the playoff picture. And we have an opponent where he should be able to do relatively well.
I'm not out on him yet because of who we've played against and who we've played without. I'm interested to see how he plays versus a bad defense with his back against the wall.
We started the year with what we thought was a tremendous supporting cast, but it's unraveled. Garrett Wilson is our only legitimate receiver. Breece Hall is on IR. The rebuilt OL is depleted.
He's had some good drives this year. But he's never been able to sustain it for 4 quarters. He was great in the 4th quarter against Pittsburgh, but he was not good for most of that game. He was good for about 1.5 quarters about New England, then he completely melted down and had one of the worst 2nd halves I've ever seen. He's had some other good plays here and there, but they've been more than canceled out by some really inaccurate throws and bad decisions.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 12:43:05 PM
But I like that we basically put his back against the wall.
I think he mostly put himself there
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 12:47:18 PM
I think he mostly put himself thereDid Zach know that though?
I agree that his play and comments put him there, but Zach might not have realized that given how we've treated him for 2 years. This serves as a reality check. If he thought he was entitled to this job because of his draft status, this is the first time we've questioned that, at least publicly.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 22, 2022, 01:12:39 PM
Our offensive line is horrendous, especially the right side. The nickel blitz where he got blindsided was probably on him not reading it at the line, but I'm not sure he's allowed to make many checks at the line.
The Kurt Warner breakdown is very good. A lot of it is on him, but there are times when the OL does it's job but the receivers just aren't open at all.
His completion percentage against pressure is impacted by two things: he panics but he also has no where to go horizontally with the football on most of those plays. LaFleur is always attacking down the field. If Zach's eyes are dropping, he needs a true check down out of the backfield. We need to stop going five wide and make things easier, even if it's far less aggressive.
I watched the entire thing and this was my takeaway as well.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 01:27:01 PM
Simms had a massive tweet thread on the game as well.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 01:33:07 PM
LaFleur doesn't really scheme guys open like that. Patricia/Judge got Ulbrich a few times with designed plays to have a free runner.
Spare me with the "Wilson missed open receivers" rebuttal. That's not what I'm saying. We do not scheme players open for big plays and I feel like every other offense (even bad ones like Chicago/Washington/Atlanta/New England) in the NFL has guys running free every game.
We're going to line up this way no matter what you show us and beat you...but we're not winning many matchups.
Post by: Johnny English on November 22, 2022, 01:36:43 PM
https://twitter.com/CSimmsQB/status/1595120669758365696
Simms had a massive tweet thread on the game as well.
Interesting that Simms and Warner had different reads on the second of those plays. Warner had it as an intended rub play in which the receiver missed the pick, Simms calls it as the defenders reading the intended route and adjusting.
Post by: insanity on November 22, 2022, 02:34:53 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2022, 03:03:03 PM
Nothing in this breakdown says attrocious qb play he needs to be benched.
The only atrocious play was the awful miss to Conklin that should've been picked
even on the late pass to the sideline that was almost interecepted, that's really on Mims for not coming back to the football
Post by: insanity on November 22, 2022, 04:17:55 PM
The only atrocious play was the awful miss to Conklin that should've been pickedYeah but even then I'm more okay with an over through due to poor mechanics than a terrible read on the play. He's not the only qb to let one get away from him. Fields last play of the game was the same type of overthrow for an int
even on the late pass to the sideline that was almost interecepted, that's really on Mims for not coming back to the football
Post by: reuben on November 22, 2022, 04:36:30 PM
Today he called out Garrett Wilson for his comments after the game and said Wilson hadn't done enough for these "state of the union speeches." He said he's made like seven of them. I don't recall any other than Sunday's, which I think was not only justified, but necessary.
Simms is a mediocre mind who likes to take big swings because he wants to general manage. Zach Wilson is his biggest swing, so I can understand his impulse to be an apologist, but he can freak right off if he's going to go after Garrett Wilson. The dude's at least trying to be a leader in a room that clearly needs and doesn't have one.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 04:52:42 PM
Chris Simms sucks. That's unrelated to the current discussion at hand. He took Eisen's time slot this season and I've been listening to him regularly.Chris Simms seems exactly like the kind of analyst this board would make fun of constantly if he weren't the biggest Zach Wilson apologist in the media.
Today he called out Garrett Wilson for his comments after the game and said Wilson hadn't done enough for these "state of the union speeches." He said he's made like seven of them. I don't recall any other than Sunday's, which I think was not only justified, but necessary.
Simms is a mediocre mind who likes to take big swings because he wants to general manage. Zach Wilson is his biggest swing, so I can understand his impulse to be an apologist, but he can freak right off if he's going to go after Garrett Wilson. The dude's at least trying to be a leader in a room that clearly needs and doesn't have one.
Post by: insanity on November 22, 2022, 07:24:35 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2022, 07:54:30 PM
I'm not sure how he can be called a zw apologist. He sits on wilson all the timeMaybe. I dont watch a ton of his content, but when I would, he was constantly attacking Jets fans for coming after Zach.
Post by: Coach K on November 23, 2022, 07:26:18 AM
I mean he led us down the field to beat Pittsburgh. He's shown flashes. The TD he threw to Conklin against New England in the first matchup is one of the better throws of the year.I'm strictly speaking on timing and anticipation which is his most inconsistent trait
I'm not out on him yet because of who we've played against and who we've played without. I'm interested to see how he plays versus a bad defense with his back against the wall.
We started the year with what we thought was a tremendous supporting cast, but it's unraveled. Garrett Wilson is our only legitimate receiver. Breece Hall is on IR. The rebuilt OL is depleted.
Scratch thst his mechanics are a joke
Post by: Coach K on November 23, 2022, 07:27:55 AM
I think he mostly put himself thereThst presser wss the nail in tbe coffin for the honeymoon can't sell that to the locker room without putting him on notice
I'm not giving up on the kid we all know he's got the physical tools. But seeing tbe JaMarcus Russel and Geno memes.....like I said I'd there's 0 spark in the 1st half vs a sad Chicago D. That kid gets pulled and idc who plays
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:01:10 AM
Sad it ended this way, but I assume this has to be a locker room thing.
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1595447112464011280
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 23, 2022, 10:07:00 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:09:10 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 10:11:04 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:11:10 AM
Could be good for him one way or another
This is what I was thinking. The team might not be done with him, they might just think he can benefit from some time off of the field and observing from the bench.
Or I'm wrong. Whatever.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 10:11:25 AM
I love how Robert Saleh handled this whole situation though. Whether he picked Zach or White.
What if he names Streveler the starter?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 23, 2022, 10:12:16 AM
This is what I was thinking. The team might not be done with him, they might just think he can benefit from some time off of the field and observing from the bench.
Or I'm wrong. Whatever.
If it hurts him, well, he was probably never going to make it here anyways
Tua got benched and I think it actually helped him
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 10:13:23 AM
Tua got benched and I think it actually helped him
Tyreek Hill and Mike McDaniel helped Tua more than him getting benched
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:14:17 AM
What if he names Streveler the starter?Would be weird, but I think he's done a good job handling the whole situation publicly. He tried to avoid a QB controversy as long as possible, and I think he's done a good job in the media so far this week.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:14:57 AM
Tyreek Hill and Mike McDaniel helped Tua more than him getting benchedI wonder how much different things would be if we got Tyreek. Might have blown things up even faster, or maybe Zach is still the guy.
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 10:17:51 AM
What if he names Streveler the starter?Then we're winning the Super Bowl
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:18:39 AM
Then we're winning the Grey CupFYP and agree.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:19:45 AM
What if he names Streveler the starter?
MB gets admitted to the ER for a priapism.
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 10:20:46 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 10:21:10 AM
MB gets admitted to the ER for a priapism.
You WILL feel my power.
Post by: IATA on November 23, 2022, 10:24:28 AM
Post by: guinness77 on November 23, 2022, 10:25:21 AM
Anybody who’s been in any locker room knows that. I never played organized football, but when the damned QB goes up and takes NONE of the blame that has to rub everyone in there the wrong way whether it’s true or not (and it was obviously true).
FtR…I’d rather see Flacco play than White but, whatever. Wilson better learn from this or he is finito.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:25:32 AM
Spotlight on Mike LaFleurYep. I think it's much more Wilson's fault than LaFleur's fault. This move says the Jets agree with that. But now the spotlight is much brighter on MLF.
Post by: ons on November 23, 2022, 10:26:58 AM
Long term, the best case scenario for the team is for Zach to figure it out and get his mind right, but short term the right thing to do is to show the team that we are here to win now, and no individual is more important than winning.
Hopefully Saleh (and Douglas) holds MiLF up to the fire too.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 10:30:45 AM
Yep. I think it's much more Wilson's fault than LaFleur's fault. This move says the Jets agree with that. But now the spotlight is much brighter on MLF.
From the pieces we've heard since Sunday, it sounds like Saleh met with the offensive staff and basically reevaluated every position.
LaFleur (like any OC would do) likely pointed the finger at the QB's execution of his play calls.
I'm interested to see what happens at wideout too.
Post by: Coach K on November 23, 2022, 10:36:07 AM
Spotlight on Mike LaFleurThis is the good thing to come of it
Post by: IATA on November 23, 2022, 10:38:39 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:42:19 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 10:42:21 AM
But the true litmus test isn't this week...it's the following week against the Vikes, and the week after that against the Bills.
If MLF can get Flacco/White/Streveler or whomever the starter is to be productive against the latter 2 teams, then i'll back down.
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 10:44:17 AM
Hopefully Ty Johnson sees his role reduced severely.Reduced to a permanent end?
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 10:45:50 AM
Reduced to a permanent end?
Reduced to ash...is what i was looking for
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:47:25 AM
White will start.
Flacco will back up.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 23, 2022, 10:48:44 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 10:50:51 AM
@antwanstaley
·
45s
Robert Saleh says Zach Wilson had a conversation with the team
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 10:52:00 AM
He's capable of so much more than he's playing at. His issues are fixable. He just needs a reset. He has to reconnect with these fundamentals.
We haven't wavered that we think he is going to be the future of this franchise.
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 10:53:44 AM
Post by: IATA on November 23, 2022, 11:06:56 AM
Antwan V. Staley
@antwanstaley
·
45s
Robert Saleh says Zach Wilson had a conversation with the team
"This is your fault."
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:08:18 AM
That says a lot into why they made the move.
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 11:09:55 AM
"This is your fault."
"I'm humbling sitting this one out as a sacrifice for your failures. See you in December."
Wilson deserves all the criticism he's received but we don't know what his relationship is with the team. I've no doubt they're frustrated with hims game but doesn't mean they've given up or turned on him. Likely coming quick and fast if he doesn't turn it around.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:12:10 AM
"I'm humbling sitting this one out as a sacrifice for your failures. See you in December."I think this move flat out tells you a lot of his teammates are done with him. At least in the short term.
Wilson deserves all the criticism he's received but we don't know what his relationship is with the team. I've no doubt they're frustrated with hims game but doesn't mean they've given up or turned on him. Likely coming quick and fast if he doesn't turn it around.
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 11:14:15 AM
I think this move flat out tells you a lot of his teammates are done with him. At least in the short term.
It's all speculative, as we're "not in the building" but I can see making this move without Wilson losing the locker room. If anything, it can help him save it. If he continues to play like last week, no doubt the locker room turns.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 11:17:24 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 23, 2022, 11:18:18 AM
This is so depressing.
This is unquestionably the right take. Whether you wanted this to happen or not is irrelevant. It’s depressing that it’s come to this and that the most likely outcome is that Zach is not the guy
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 11:21:52 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:22:53 AM
This is unquestionably the right take. Whether you wanted this to happen or not is irrelevant. It’s depressing that it’s come to this and that the most likely outcome is that Zach is not the guyI agree it's depressing that it's come to this, but I don't think today is so depressing. Today was inevitable. Faster than I thought it would be, but likely inevitable.
Sunday was depressing. Three weeks ago was depressing. Denver was depressing. Most of Zach's career has been depressing. And I think he might have needed this wake-up call, so I don't think this is necessary the end of Zach. It probably is, but it probably was going to be anyway.
The fact is this team is still 6-4 with one of the best defenses in the NFL. We are making this QB change in order to try to save this season, which gives me hope in the short term.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:23:17 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 11:25:30 AM
If Zach really is done here, I think you make a strong run at Jimmy Garoppolo in 2023 and you take a swing on a second or third round QB like Bo Nix, Cam Ward, or Sam Hartman.
MLF doesn't deserve to ruin another QB
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 11:25:58 AM
If Zach really is done here, I think you make a strong run at Jimmy Garoppolo in 2023 and you take a swing on a second or third round QB like Bo Nix, Cam Ward, or Sam Hartman.
That is depressing
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:26:18 AM
It's a great place for a veteran QB because we have an elite defense and some good young weapons in Wilson and Hall.
Douglas has to patch the OL up a little bit again and we're in a good spot to start the year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:26:24 AM
If Zach really is done here, I think you make a strong run at Jimmy Garoppolo in 2023 and you take a swing on a second or third round QB like Bo Nix, Cam Ward, or Sam Hartman.I think part of it depends on how White plays.
If White plays pretty well, maybe you try to trade Zach, keep White as a backup/competitor, and take a mid-round guy.
If White plays REALLY well, maybe you have him and Zach compete next year and see what happens.
If White sucks, then I think you go with Veteran, Wilson, and mid-round pick.
Of course, we don't know how they truly feel about ZW.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:26:42 AM
That is depressing
We're probably 8-2 with Jimmy G. That's not depressing.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:27:21 AM
I think part of it depends on how White plays.
I don't have much faith in him, but we'll see.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 11:28:15 AM
We're probably 8-2 with Jimmy G. That's not depressing.
8-2 with a hard ceiling and no future
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 23, 2022, 11:32:07 AM
8-2 with a hard ceiling and no future
Jimmy G got SF to a Superbowl...if that's the hard ceiling, then I'm good with it.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 23, 2022, 11:32:52 AM
MLF doesn't deserve to ruin another QB
THIS
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:34:09 AM
I don't have much faith in him, but we'll see.I don't think he's an NFL starting QB, but I think he can be an upgrade over what Zach has been. He certainly was last year.
We're still going to have a below average or bad offense. But if the offense isn't atrocious, we can win some games.
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 11:34:38 AM
8-2 with a hard ceiling and no future
What? Look at what the floor can be with White, Flacco, or Wilson under center. There's no future in house. Jimmy G just turned 31. What kind of window do you want?
This is a garbage take, friend.
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 11:38:32 AM
I think this move flat out tells you a lot of his teammates are done with him. At least in the short term.That's a wild assumption but then again "done with" for Jets fans means "I'll be right back here next week anyway."
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:43:25 AM
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 11:44:31 AM
Saleh kind of slipped up with the "why me? I want to play" answer about his conversation with Zach.
I took it as an attempt to paint Wilson as a competitor but the "why me?" is not good.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:45:11 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 11:46:23 AM
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 11:46:35 AM
Oh, nevermind. That's really not what we said. Our beat just freaking sucks.
Does every team have excrement beat writers or are we especially cursed?
#neverforget #manishmehta
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:47:54 AM
Oh, nevermind. That's really not what we said. Our beat just freaking sucks.I mean, it is what Saleh said, but I think people are making way too big a deal out of it, and it's the type of thing that reads a lot worse on paper than it does said out loud.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:47:56 AM
Jimmy G has played 1 full season without injury since the Niners acquired him.
Zach Wilson hasn't played a full season either
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 11:50:15 AM
Zach Wilson hasn't played a full season eitherJimmy has broken down more
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:51:01 AM
Jimmy has broken down more
leave Jimmy alone
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:51:06 AM
Jimmy G has played 1 full season without injury since the Niners acquired him.If Jimmy G were a stud who always stayed healthy, he wouldn't be available this offseason.
He's an average QB who has dealt with injuries at times. But that's still better than anyone we've had in over a decade.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:51:22 AM
remember when Tommy thought Marcus Mariota was a guido? lmaoooooo
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 11:52:45 AM
this team deserves an Italian QB
remember when Tommy thought Marcus Mariota was a guido? lmaoooooo
Come back, Vinny T!
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 12:00:05 PM
leave Jimmy aloneJimmy gonna get you, Kramer.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 12:00:45 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 12:03:10 PM
The Niners traded multiple 1sts to replace Jimmy with Trey Lance because they knew Jimmy wasn't the answer. The only reason he's playing right now is because Lance got hurt. If we acquired him, he'd be a band-aid and nothing more.
we could use one of those right now
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 12:03:47 PM
we could use one of those right nowJust hand Lamar Jackson a blank check next March
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 12:04:51 PM
The Niners traded multiple 1sts to replace Jimmy with Trey Lance because they knew Jimmy wasn't the answer. The only reason he's playing right now is because Lance got hurt. If we acquired him, he'd be a band-aid and nothing more.A band-aid is exactly what we need...
The 49ers are the 4th favorites to win the Super Bowl with him. Nobody thinks Garoppolo is a star. But he's adequate, and if the rest of the roster is very good, you can win with an adequate QB. We are 6-4 this year with less than adequate QB play because of the supporting cast.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 23, 2022, 12:08:39 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 23, 2022, 12:30:59 PM
If Zach really is done here, I think you make a strong run at Jimmy Garoppolo in 2023 and you take a swing on a second or third round QB like Bo Nix, Cam Ward, or Sam Hartman.
What’s your take on a guy like Hendon Hooker? Is he going to declare after the knee? If so, what range is he likely to go?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 12:31:12 PM
The Niners traded multiple 1sts to replace Jimmy with Trey Lance because they knew Jimmy wasn't the answer. The only reason he's playing right now is because Lance got hurt. If we acquired him, he'd be a band-aid and nothing more.https://twitter.com/FourVerts/status/1595451538583027713
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 12:32:20 PM
The Niners traded multiple 1sts to replace Jimmy with Trey Lance because they knew Jimmy wasn't the answer. The only reason he's playing right now is because Lance got hurt. If we acquired him, he'd be a band-aid and nothing more.
Correct. This is a good thing. It would give Wilson some competition in the next offseason and if he isn't proving to be any better than this season then we don't have to waste a first rounder on a terrible QB class.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 23, 2022, 12:36:46 PM
Just hand Lamar Jackson a blank check next March
Obviously this has to be option A.
The reality is Ravens will exclusive rights franchise him, and no matter what offer we can make, they have the opportunity to match. If they don’t we are giving up 2 first rounders. Which we would all gladly trade for a top 10 QB, but if we somehow manage to pull it off, we are looking at the combined, most expensive move in franchise history. It’s worth the risk, but it absolutely has to work out. It also has to require the ravens allowing him to leave.
Option B is Garrapollo IMO. C is Carr. If all of that fails, then we need to get creative.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 02:04:37 PM
https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt/status/1595507253414662161
Post by: Libero_2 on November 23, 2022, 02:05:56 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1595507348281430024
https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt/status/1595507253414662161
Nice to see him mending fences in the room. Time to earn his job back by fixing his damned footwork
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 02:12:33 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 02:18:16 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 02:20:13 PM
I still believe in Zach. He'll come back from this.Realistically, he has one more year to prove he can be the guy. Most likely, we aren't bringing in a superstar QB. Lamar, Rodgers and probably Carr are the only guys where I look at them like they are the guy and Zach is the pure backup.
If we bring in a guy like Jimmy G, that's a guy that a talented young 3rd-year QB should be able to beat out if he's good and the light goes on.
Post by: Coach K on November 23, 2022, 03:00:42 PM
I think this team will be an ideal landing spot for a lot of free agents depending on where we finish.This
It's a great place for a veteran QB because we have an elite defense and some good young weapons in Wilson and Hall.
Douglas has to patch the OL up a little bit again and we're in a good spot to start the year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 04:00:24 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 04:04:43 PM
Zach did a good job in interviews today. Said the right things.
He's progressed to Darnold level.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 23, 2022, 04:11:03 PM
Zach did a good job in interviews today. Said the right things.
If his derriere didn’t spend all freaking day with the media relations people making sure he said all the right things I’d be freaking shocked
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 06:01:41 PM
Like if we sat him for 3 games, could he actually make makingful change to his broken down mechanics?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 06:29:15 PM
Speaking of Wilson "progressing" what's a realistic time frame for him to step away, refocus on his fundamentals, and come back with any sort of meaningful change (to his mechanics and fundamentals, obviously gameplay wise is a crap shoot with too many variables)I don't think anyone really knows. And I feel he usually starts games off OK, and then he quickly breaks down as the game goes on.
Like if we sat him for 3 games, could he actually make makingful change to his broken down mechanics?
A lot of the footwork stuff just seems like laziness during the games. Maybe this is a kick in the derriere to stop being lazy. But it's probably more just bad habits at this point. Perhaps you can blame LaFleur for this as well, but we don't know what's happening behind the scenes.
But let's say White goes 1-2 in the next 3 games and they put Wilson back in against Detroit. You put Wilson back in a spot at home against a terrible defense where hopefully he can gain some confidence and maintain good habits. I think that's what you're hoping for.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 07:04:30 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 23, 2022, 09:39:45 PM
Yips doesn’t seem ideal
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 09:44:47 PM
https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/1595600508437282818?s=46&t=X2FEJAIndIuc_tyw1k3BkwI mean it makes some sense based on some of the throws he misses.
Yips doesn’t seem ideal
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:11:44 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 10:28:26 PM
WTF does yips mean?
Essentially a mental block that causes him to forget the basic skills needed to play quarterback.
The most common example I've heard is of a pitcher that loses the ability to throw to first.
My understanding is that it's caused by extreme nervousness probably not aided by his ADHD, playing professional quarterback in New York, and Bill Belichick doing everything he can to confuse the excrement out of him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:45:50 PM
Essentially a mental block that causes him to forget the basic skills needed to play quarterback.
The most common example I've heard is of a pitcher that loses the ability to throw to first.
My understanding is that it's caused by extreme nervousness probably not aided by his ADHD, playing professional quarterback in New York, and Bill Belichick doing everything he can to confuse the excrement out of him.
Gracias
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:49:51 PM
GraciasChuck Knoblauch, Steve Sax and Rick Ankiel are probably the 3 biggest MLB examples I can think of. Knoblauch and Sax one day just had some mental block that prevented them from being able to throw it to first base from second base properly. Ankiel was a pitcher who just completely lost the ability to throw a strike.
The Berrios pass definitely fits the "yips." But if he's had them for 2 years, I'm not sure how much better they will get.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:51:12 PM
Chuck Knoblauch, Steve Sax and Rick Ankiel are probably the 3 biggest MLB examples I can think of. Knoblauch and Sax one day just had some mental block that prevented them from being able to throw it to first base from second base properly. Ankiel was a pitcher who just completely lost the ability to throw a strike.
The Berrios pass definitely fits the "yips." But if he's had them for 2 years, I'm not sure how much better they will get.
Well that's upsetting.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 10:51:52 PM
Essentially a mental block that causes him to forget the basic skills needed to play quarterback.
The most common example I've heard is of a pitcher that loses the ability to throw to first.
My understanding is that it's caused by extreme nervousness probably not aided by his ADHD, playing professional quarterback in New York, and Bill Belichick doing everything he can to confuse the excrement out of him.
So what I'm hearing is we should try to get Wilson hooked on Adderall
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:53:34 PM
Well that's upsetting.It's also sometimes a thing for putters in golf. Some guys get over it. Some don't, or have to battle it for a while.
At least in baseball or golf, if you have the yips, you can make up for it in other areas (great hitting, great driving, etc).
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 10:58:45 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 11:07:10 PM
I've never heard of this afflicting a quarterback before Zach.
Statistically it's had to happen by now.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 11:07:53 PM
Statistically it's had to happen by now.
Agreed, which is why I'm surprised I've never heard of it.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 11:09:12 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1760962-yips-in-the-nfl-how-mental-aspects-affect-nfl-players-on-field-performance.amp.html
Then it mentions 4 QB's with famous cases of the Yips, two of them having played for us
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 11:09:45 PM
So what I'm hearing is we should try to get Wilson hooked on Adderall
I'd be lying if I said this thought hadn't entered my head. Is Adderall a restricted substance in the NFL?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 11:11:35 PM
I'd be lying if I said this thought hadn't entered my head. Is Adderall a restricted substance in the NFL?
Yes, I remember when Seattles defense I think had a bunch of guys suspended for it
It's 100% considered a PED I think in basically all things sports
Now whether he could get provigil on the other hand, that he might be able to get by with a script
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 11:13:32 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:15:05 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 23, 2022, 11:17:20 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 11:26:15 PM
It's always good when we need to figure out what drugs our QB needs to play well.
If they didn't bench him we'd be figuring out what drugs we need to keep watching him play
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 06:52:04 AM
It's always good when we need to figure out what drugs our QB needs to play well.
I may need some of these drugs myself to watch the rest of the season.
I never considered Zach having the yips due to his ADHD.
Post by: Coach K on November 24, 2022, 07:35:08 AM
.maybe they need a new version of the color coded armband but it's shiny color coded keys with play calls they gotta shake it like a toddler in the huddle for him
Post by: Coach K on November 24, 2022, 07:37:01 AM
Whens the last time anyone saw yhis kids feet planted?
Rooting for him hut he's gotta grow the freak up and be a better leader
Kids shell-shocked I been using that term for days hut I guess Yips is a good way to say it I never used the verbiage but always heard it
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 07:48:29 AM
He must have a severe case then. My adhd can result in a hyperfocus for things I'm interested in and a general apathy for things that don't
.maybe they need a new version of the color coded armband but it's shiny color coded keys with play calls they gotta shake it like a toddler in the huddle for him
I've seen some stuff on twitter suggesting that Zach actually works TOO hard, and could be overwhelming himself.
This is why i think he needs an experienced coach to work with him. QB or OC, i don't care. Preferably a former QB...hello Frank Reich. Hell, i'd take Jim Zorn over Calabrese.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 24, 2022, 08:27:03 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 24, 2022, 09:54:31 AM
Only the Jets can draft a QB 2nd overall with such severe ADHD that he can't actually play the position at an NFL level
Let’s not go that far and really suggest it’s adhd keeping Zach from competing at a high level.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 09:56:34 AM
Let’s not go that far and really suggest it’s adhd keeping Zach from competing at a high level.
it certainly isn't helping
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2022, 10:01:16 AM
it certainly isn't helpingThere's no indication that's why he's sucking. We've seen plenty of bad QB play from neurotypical people too.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 10:07:19 AM
There's no indication that's why he's sucking. We've seen plenty of bad QB play from neurotypical people too.
I'm still hanging my hat on poor coaching (which would explain poor habits and mechanics).
Post by: MoreCharacters on November 24, 2022, 10:49:33 AM
Post by: MoreCharacters on November 24, 2022, 10:51:49 AM
Post by: delavan on November 24, 2022, 11:31:27 AM
Post by: Johnny English on November 24, 2022, 12:38:04 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2022, 12:39:10 PM
Where did "Zach has ADHD" suddenly cone from?In our never-ending search to create excuses for Zach Wilson's poor play, somehow we've landed on ADHD.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 24, 2022, 12:50:46 PM
I've seen some good playcalling from MLF and some good play from Zach. Even though it's ridiculously easy to point out all the bad habits they've presented, both clearly have talent in them. Now it's up to Coach Bob to coax it out of them or move on if they don't get straightened out.
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2022, 12:52:00 PM
Where did "Zach has ADHD" suddenly cone from?He has ADHD. Was written about in 2021.
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2022, 12:53:17 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 12:55:18 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2022, 01:03:38 PM
How many people here believe Zach actually didn't feel any responsibility for the L? I feel like that's the actual divide here, people who took his answer literally vs assuming it was a flippant response to a reporter.I think he just had a bad answer at a press conference. I think we all think Zach thinks he bears responsibility. But when you are specifically asked about it, and you deny it, it's a bad look, no matter if he's pissed at himself or Connor or whatever.
But if I'm playing on defense, and I just played one of the best Jets defensive games we've ever seen, and my QB says that, I'd be annoyed at that quote, especially if there wasn't a pretty quick apology to go with it. Hell, even if I'm offense, I'd be pissed. It reeked of a guy who feels he's entitled to that job and doesn't need to be accountable. And I do think he was feeling a little too comfortable as the starter. We anointed him the starter from Day 1 and have tolerated mostly bad play for 2 seasons.
If he actually meant it, that's a big indictment on Douglas because I think that's something you should be able to figure out in the pre-draft process.
You could see how annoyed many of the players were during the game at Zach. People who were at the game were saying Zach was doing a bad job leading. Reporters in the locker room were saying Zach wasn't taking as much responsibility as he should, and that other players were pissed. I think Zach was already near losing the locker room, and the comment was the cherry on top and made it a national story.
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 24, 2022, 07:29:25 PM
his post game presser after the first patriots loss
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 24, 2022, 09:51:25 PM
He has ADHD. Was written about in 2021.
Heis described it as "weaponized autism".
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 25, 2022, 05:30:50 AM
How many people here believe Zach actually didn't feel any responsibility for the L? I feel like that's the actual divide here, people who took his answer literally vs assuming it was a flippant response to a reporter.
I can't remember if it was this week or a previous week but he was asked about his receivers appearing frustrated with him on the field and his answer was something to the effect of "I'm frustrated too"
He's had multiple bad answers that can be misconstrued but reports have come out this week that he walks around like it's not his fault, so he loses the benefit of the doubt
It's harder for me to not believe he's a little too arrogant, which is why I think this benching is important. It's time someone told him nothing is guaranteed and he better get his act together. Just hope it works
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2022, 07:51:14 AM
it certainly isn't helpingIma be honest I've got manic depression ADHD and a littany of issues. Nothing would prevent me from being dialed in on a damn playbook and how to read a field
If I heard things like him getting confused with audibles playcalls and verbiage that would make more sense
What's on the field isn't ADHD related
It's a dogshit excuse. He works too hard but can't focus . So get out of the sport . It's a contradictory theory to me.
I'm rooting for him if he was ever actually gonna be good he can overcome this
If this kid burns out it won't be solely MLF fault. That I will not budge from.
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2022, 07:52:00 AM
Bashing Zach Wilson is now ableistYeah rofl I'm with you
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2022, 07:53:22 AM
How many people here believe Zach actually didn't feel any responsibility for the L? I feel like that's the actual divide here, people who took his answer literally vs assuming it was a flippant response to a reporter.Doesn't matter which one it is . When you're the #2 freaking pick and your D is a godsend and you couldn't hold Geno Smiths jockstrap you excrement up and dive on tbe sword
So sick of the excuses I'm seeing for tbe kid. There's some legit ones but none of them are anything we've seen in the last 24 hrs lol
Post by: MBGreen on November 25, 2022, 08:02:56 AM
Doesn't matter which one it is . When you're the #2 freaking pick and your D is a godsend and you couldn't hold Geno Smiths jockstrap you excrement up and dive on tbe sword
So sick of the excuses I'm seeing for tbe kid. There's some legit ones but none of them are anything we've seen in the last 24 hrs lol
i refuse to give up on him yet. There's too much talent there. Give him someone like Frank Reich to work with, and if he still fails, i'll help you make Zach sniff cheese dust through a straw. Hell, throw a blank check at Kurt Warner and bring him in. Clearly, losing Greg Knapp to the grim reaper had a bigger impact than we first thought.
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2022, 08:42:15 AM
i refuse to give up on him yet. There's too much talent there. Give him someone like Frank Reich to work with, and if he still fails, i'll help you make Zach sniff cheese dust through a straw. Hell, throw a blank check at Kurt Warner and bring him in. Clearly, losing Greg Knapp to the grim reaper had a bigger impact than we first thought.That's fine I'm not giving up either . But he absolutely deserves to be benched
And I'm not filing ADHD as a culprit of anything. They knew this when they scouted him. If they felt it was a detriment then they're dumb as hell for deciding to draft him
Fact of the matter is hes playing hero ball and he's not a hero yet . He can't even set his feet . That's on him. Do you honestly think tbe coaches aren't trying to coach basic excrement. Even bad coaches do
The kids not developing. He overcorrected and now just launches excrement all over the place out of bounds or over people. Still almost had 2 INTs that were awful
MLF and the scheme is partially to blame. But if he could take the easy plays when they're actually there I don't think we're having this convo
Either way gut check time for him and if he's actually a franchise qb he should survive this .
Macho man cream rises whatnot
Post by: Heismanberg on November 25, 2022, 08:51:40 AM
The kids not developing. He overcorrected and now just launches excrement all over the place out of bounds or over people. Still almost had 2 INTs that were awful
But who's developing him? Greg Knapp not being replaced this year was a misstep by Saleh. He has too much faith in LaFleur/Calabrese.
The second almost INT is just as much on the receiver for not coming back to the football. Denzel Mims is a terribly stupid football player that got back into the good graces of NYJ fans by making a few blocks (he did his job, for once) and because Elijah Moore is a turd. He sucks. He is a second round pick that has a mental lapse in almost every game and he hurts this football team in many different ways. I don't give a excrement if he threw some blocks. That's his job on run plays.
He runs the wrong routes and can only correctly run a few of them anyway. He lines up in the wrong place. His alignment is off. He drops passes. He mopes. We need to revamp the WR room in a big way in 2023, no matter who the QB is.
Don't draft another QB, right? Probably shouldn't draft another receiver either. Go get a professional that can give you consistency.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 25, 2022, 08:57:48 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2022, 09:22:10 AM
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2022, 09:45:06 AM
But who's developing him? Greg Knapp not being replaced this year was a misstep by Saleh. He has too much faith in LaFleur/Calabrese.I've already placed a large portion of blame on MLF and the schemes. We already know the other part of the equation.
The second almost INT is just as much on the receiver for not coming back to the football. Denzel Mims is a terribly stupid football player that got back into the good graces of NYJ fans by making a few blocks (he did his job, for once) and because Elijah Moore is a turd. He sucks. He is a second round pick that has a mental lapse in almost every game and he hurts this football team in many different ways. I don't give a excrement if he threw some blocks. That's his job on run plays.
He runs the wrong routes and can only correctly run a few of them anyway. He lines up in the wrong place. His alignment is off. He drops passes. He mopes. We need to revamp the WR room in a big way in 2023, no matter who the QB is.
Don't draft another QB, right? Probably shouldn't draft another receiver either. Go get a professional that can give you consistency.
Some of us are just not willing to assume everything Wilson is failing at is only a result of those things .
The only thing we all can agree on is Knapp dying fucked this whole process .
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2022, 09:47:23 AM
But him sitting should be beneficial .
And again if Wilson was ever gonna be a good QB he will overcome this
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2022, 09:48:06 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2022, 09:53:21 AM
I truly do believe zach should've never started last yr
But him sitting should be beneficial .
And again if Wilson was ever gonna be a good QB he will overcome this
But muh rookie contract window
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2022, 10:38:24 AM
But muh rookie contract windowThat all depends
Andy Reid had the leisure to sit Mahomes
And I'm not shitting on Zach solely youncan dig up a ton of MLF criticism from me
Even more reason he should've sat while MLF learned this new role with a vet or stopgap .
It is what it is. We have a GM a HC and a defensive staff
We just don't know if we've got a QB or offensive staff
Sitting zach should provide some clarity at least
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 25, 2022, 10:44:01 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2022, 10:46:04 AM
I honestly think playing him early hurt him far more than it helped, but our backup QBs at the time were absolute dog excrement so we really didn't have a choice, either.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 25, 2022, 08:45:12 PM
I didn't think he should have started as a rookie. Most of the objections I remember were based on his rookie window.
I honestly think playing him early hurt him far more than it helped, but our backup QBs at the time were absolute dog excrement so we really didn't have a choice, either.
All the other guys started except Trey Lance, which made sense because they already had a viable QB. Fields, Lawrence, and Jones weren’t really thrust into offenses with great supporting casts either
Maybe that’s irrelevant to the ZW conversation, or maybe we drafted the wrong QB
Post by: dcm1602 on November 26, 2022, 05:58:55 AM
I didn't think he should have started as a rookie. Most of the objections I remember were based on his rookie window.
I honestly think playing him early hurt him far more than it helped, but our backup QBs at the time were absolute dog excrement so we really didn't have a choice, either.
We did have a choice
We chose to trade him
Obviously getting a 2nd rounder for him was fantastic.
But if that had major negative consequences on Zach, was iit worth it?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 26, 2022, 08:12:53 AM
We did have a choice
We chose to trade him
Obviously getting a 2nd rounder for him was fantastic.
But if that had major negative consequences on Zach, was iit worth it?
Yea he was in the dogshit pile.
Post by: Jumbo on November 26, 2022, 04:01:35 PM
Quote
Zach Wilson has struggled with case of the "yips" since the spring, per [Ian Rappoport]
Albert Breer added the issue goes all the way back to last season.
Would explain why he misses so many of the routine throws he didn't even struggle with in college. But also possibly a death knell for his chances to reclaim the starting spot, if true.
Post by: reuben on November 26, 2022, 04:08:18 PM
https://twitter.com/nfl_dovkleiman/status/1596526944568442881?s=46&t=QZ6PEJQe201wpbaAlncHDA
Would explain why he misses so many of the routine throws he didn't even struggle with in college. But also possibly a death knell for his chances to reclaim the starting spot, if true.
(https://i.imgur.com/AEuZffy.png)
I desperately need to see Zach start hitting these throws. Running back, in space, plenty of room in the pocket to make a clean throw... just sails it.
This is just straight-up yips. Gotta get this fixed because plays like this were solid gold for us the last month.
permayips
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 27, 2022, 11:00:25 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 27, 2022, 11:04:19 AM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1596908053005467649?s=46&t=25fDIf8xcRVvnPP4noB0nw
If MLF called the right play then Zach wouldn't have been wrong
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 27, 2022, 11:05:23 AM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1596908053005467649?s=46&t=25fDIf8xcRVvnPP4noB0nw
That's egregious.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 27, 2022, 11:07:23 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 27, 2022, 11:12:05 AM
The whole offense is a dumpster fire.
Who knows if someone was yelling in his helmet to get the play off before a potential challenge. Garrett didn't catch that ball on the previous play.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 27, 2022, 11:16:02 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 27, 2022, 11:17:49 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 27, 2022, 02:04:23 PM
Post by: Badger on November 27, 2022, 03:28:27 PM
https://twitter.com/HolderStephen/status/1596906707040337920?s=19
Post by: Coach K on November 27, 2022, 03:33:11 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 27, 2022, 04:10:49 PM
Good insight here
https://twitter.com/HolderStephen/status/1596906707040337920?s=19
When I said I was getting annoyed with the needless sidearm throws everyone told me it was cool and he was ace and he should keep doing it.
Post by: Badger on November 27, 2022, 04:12:41 PM
When I said I was getting annoyed with the needless sidearm throws everyone told me it was cool and he was ace and he should keep doing it.It was fine until Matt Hasselbeck said it wasn't.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 27, 2022, 04:13:04 PM
When I said I was getting annoyed with the needless sidearm throws everyone told me it was cool and he was ace and he should keep doing it.
To be fair (Letterkenny chorus) I have more fun arguing with you than agreeing with you on this board.
Post by: Johnny English on November 27, 2022, 04:13:52 PM
It was fine until Matt Hasselbeck said it wasn't.
To be fair (Letterkenny chorus) I have more fun arguing with you than agreeing with you on this board.
Apologies accepted.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 27, 2022, 04:42:16 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 27, 2022, 04:46:17 PM
Zach to Where We Started
I'm Not Going Zach
Post by: Miamipuck on November 27, 2022, 04:55:57 PM
Post by: reuben on November 27, 2022, 04:56:27 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 27, 2022, 04:57:16 PM
Zach (Not) In Black
Zach In The USSR
Post by: bojanglesman on November 27, 2022, 05:13:46 PM
Not ExzachlyWinner
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 27, 2022, 05:58:01 PM
When I said I was getting annoyed with the needless sidearm throws everyone told me it was cool and he was ace and he should keep doing it.
there was a moment last week where he threw it sidearm into the middle of the field from within our own endzone and i nearly lost my freaking mind
Post by: Jumbo on November 27, 2022, 06:01:22 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 27, 2022, 06:11:11 PM
Of all of the QB busts we've taken Zach may well be the worst (unless he manages to turn it around but I'm not holding my breath)
-quickest path to potentially be considered bust
-worst overall performance
-best team around him
Post by: Johnny English on November 27, 2022, 07:00:04 PM
there was a moment last week where he threw it sidearm into the middle of the field from within our own endzone and i nearly lost my freaking mind
bUt mOrMoN mAhOmEs
Post by: Coach K on November 27, 2022, 07:33:39 PM
I Won't Go For Zach (Saleh with a Oates wig on and MLF dressed like Darryl Hall )
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 27, 2022, 07:37:10 PM
-quickest path to potentially be considered bust- does not appear to be the nice one
-worst overall performance
-best team around him
Post by: Coach K on November 27, 2022, 08:21:16 PM
Post by: reuben on November 27, 2022, 08:26:03 PM
The saga continues
From reddit: Zach would make the perfect stormtrooper, he can't hit excrement.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 27, 2022, 09:25:04 PM
Quote
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/z6kccp/the_athletic_after_one_touchdown_drive_white/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I wonder how accurate this is re: Zach sitting solo after the first TD. Would seem to be odd behavior after apologizing to the team
Pic of the situation the article is likely referring to
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/z6lefd/which_one_of_these_is_not_like_the_other_which/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Post by: Badger on November 27, 2022, 09:53:48 PM
I wonder how accurate this is re: Zach sitting solo after the first TD. Would seem to be odd behavior after apologizing to the teamAlready sick of how happy the peanut gallery is to beat off to loljets content.
Pic of the situation the article is likely referring to
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/z6lefd/which_one_of_these_is_not_like_the_other_which/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Post by: Heismanberg on November 27, 2022, 10:38:41 PM
I wonder how accurate this is re: Zach sitting solo after the first TD. Would seem to be odd behavior after apologizing to the team
Pic of the situation the article is likely referring to
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/z6lefd/which_one_of_these_is_not_like_the_other_which/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
https://twitter.com/seannyjets/status/1597050425735229441?s=46&t=W1r5jDN1e8Tb5qiQ19CkpQ
It’s not accurate.
Post by: Coach K on November 28, 2022, 04:16:38 AM
I wonder how accurate this is re: Zach sitting solo after the first TD. Would seem to be odd behavior after apologizing to the team
Pic of the situation the article is likely referring to
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/z6lefd/which_one_of_these_is_not_like_the_other_which/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Literally seconds later he's got a pad next to them watching film
It's a moment in time and a picture worth a thousand words horseshit moment
Post by: Heismanberg on November 28, 2022, 07:55:10 AM
It's a moment in time and a picture worth a thousand words horseshit moment
The Jets beat writer for The Athletic "reported" that Zach sat alone. That makes things like this even worse.
Post by: Johnny English on November 28, 2022, 07:58:19 AM
The Jets beat writer for The Athletic "reported" that Zach sat alone. That makes things like this even worse.
He's in street clothes because he's struggling to perform at a basic level of competence. He isn't of any value to the players in pads, what does Rosenblatt expect him to be doing?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 28, 2022, 08:09:41 AM
He's in street clothes because he's struggling to perform at a basic level of competence. He isn't of any value to the players in pads, what does Rosenblatt expect him to be doing?
Why is Rosenblatt watching Zach Wilson on the sideline instead of the actual game he gets paid to cover?
Post by: Libero_2 on November 28, 2022, 08:36:36 AM
Why is Rosenblatt watching Zach Wilson on the sideline instead of the actual game he gets paid to cover?
Because Zach looking mopey in the rain is just as “good” a story for clicks as Mike White kicking derriere yesterday.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 28, 2022, 08:49:54 AM
Post by: Badger on November 28, 2022, 09:07:27 AM
I don't care. Until the situation changes, Zach Wilson sucks.No debating that. But I can't stand the narrative blowing up around the situation. "freak Zach Wilson" is getting way more traction than giving Mike White credit for a great game.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 28, 2022, 09:29:00 AM
Regardless none of this excrement matters if Mike White can look anything even remotely like he did yesterday on the road vs the Bills and Vikings
Post by: MBGreen on November 28, 2022, 11:11:43 AM
I just love how Zach Wilson saying "no" was a much bigger sin than him being one of the worst picks in this franchises history.
Regardless none of this excrement matters if Mike White can look anything even remotely like he did yesterday on the road vs the Bills and Vikings
it's way too premature to call Zach one of the worst picks in franchise history. Does he need to sit and learn? yes...but settle down. He's not the first young QB that's had to take a few steps back in order to progress.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 28, 2022, 12:00:45 PM
it's way too premature to call Zach one of the worst picks in franchise history. Does he need to sit and learn? yes...but settle down. He's not the first young QB that's had to take a few steps back in order to progress.
(https://www.choosingtherapy.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/What-Are-The-Five-Stages-of-Grief.png)
Post by: bojanglesman on November 28, 2022, 12:16:01 PM
I doubt Mike White is the guy either but at least he has a chance here. He doesn't have to be a top 10 QB in this offense and with our defense playing so well. Just be average and don't blow it with turnovers. I'll have hope if he can play competently against Minnesota, win or loss.
I'm tired of drafting QBs. Unless Mike White proves me wrong, with this defense, pay a good veteran and maybe draft a physically limited smart QB outside the first round or something.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 28, 2022, 12:31:22 PM
He's done here. I know it's only 2 years in, but life comes at you fast in the NFL. How many QBs ultimately thrived after bottoming out in/after their 2nd season? It happens, but rarely. He's a mental case. He might fix it, but not here. He might play again this year or next, but it won't ultimately matter. No one likes him and he can't play well enough to overcome that.
I doubt Mike White is the guy either but at least he has a chance here. He doesn't have to be a top 10 QB in this offense and with our defense playing so well. Just be average and don't blow it with turnovers. I'll have hope if he can play competently against Minnesota, win or loss.
I'm tired of drafting QBs. Unless Mike White proves me wrong, with this defense, pay a good veteran and maybe draft a physically limited smart QB outside the first round or something.
I think he's done here, but I think sitting the rest of this year should be enough to overcome nobody liking him and all that bullshit.
Unfortunately once he sucks derriere as soon as he starts playing next year, I think they'll go back to hating him.
I wonder if he's even tradeable
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2022, 12:56:39 PM
it's way too premature to call Zach one of the worst picks in franchise history. Does he need to sit and learn? yes...but settle down. He's not the first young QB that's had to take a few steps back in order to progress.It certainly isn't concrete, but it is much closer to him being a massive bust than him progressing into a good starter on his rookie deal.
He really reminds me of Geno in some ways. I wouldn't be surprised if Wilson became a good starter down the road but it may take a while.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2022, 01:00:38 PM
Maybe White can be that guy. He has played very well in 2 of his 3 full starts, and his bad start came against a great defense last year. He will have an opportunity to prove himself one way or the other.
The best scenario is that White shows he can be a solid QB and we can let Zach sit behind him as insurance (or take his job if he takes a big step forward).
Post by: Heismanberg on November 28, 2022, 01:31:11 PM
He really reminds me of Geno in some ways. I wouldn't be surprised if Wilson became a good starter down the road but it may take a while.
If he never gets a shot with the Jets again, it'd be interesting to see if he'd take a shot at the USFL or the XFL to rebuild his image.
Post by: delavan on November 28, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
He's done here. I know it's only 2 years in, but life comes at you fast in the NFL. How many QBs ultimately thrived after bottoming out in/after their 2nd season?In answer to your question, Steve Young.
After his stint in the USFL (LA Express.) Tampa Bay posted 2–14 records in Young's two seasons with them. Young was 3–16 as a starter with 12 TDs, 21 INTs and a sub 55% completion pct. and why they drafted Vinny Testaverde first overall in the 1987 draft. Bill Walsh knew the Bucs (not Young) was the problem and traded for him to back up Joe Montana—the rest is history.
I agree that Mike White is probably not ‘the guy’
Post by: Heismanberg on November 28, 2022, 01:44:20 PM
We just need someone that can competently hold it down. That's what someone like Garoppolo could give this team, but if White can do it, we're better off.
We're not really stuck in football purgatory if he can manage games consistently. It buys us time to re-sign Quinnen Williams and revamp certain positions (linebacker, safety, and offensive line). We have the premium positions sured-up for the first time in what feels like forever. Probably not a bad idea to improve the WR room too.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2022, 02:00:12 PM
Not trying to make ANOTHER XFL reference in this thread, but if we can get a couple Tommy Maddox level seasons out of Mike White then we'll be in a good spot. We have a really good young corps, a relatively young coaching staff, and a general manager that appears to know what the hell he's doing.Completely agree. Part of me likes the idea of trying to get something from White. He will likely be a lot cheaper than other veteran options.
We just need someone that can competently hold it down. That's what someone like Garoppolo could give this team, but if White can do it, we're better off.
We're not really stuck in football purgatory if he can manage games consistently. It buys us time to re-sign Quinnen Williams and revamp certain positions (linebacker, safety, and offensive line). We have the premium positions sured-up for the first time in what feels like forever. Probably not a bad idea to improve the WR room too.
The best case scenario is he is a hold-the-fort guy. The defense is good enough where we can win low-scoring games with decent offense. Then keeping Wilson becomes viable, too, if the Jets still believe in him. Maybe him coming in needing to earn the job is what he needs. I'm a little skeptical but that may be better than trading him.
Next year, if we get AVT and Breece back, and do something at tackle, we can survive with decent QB play. That was the 2009 formula.
I dont know if we can do that this year because of the OL, but White also could be an upgrade on what Sanchez was.
Post by: MBGreen on November 28, 2022, 02:30:26 PM
@BoyGreen25
·
3m
#Jets HC Robert Saleh said they'll go "week-to-week" on the QB decision.
When Zach Wilson is ready to roll, he will roll. So sounds like the intent is still to get him back on the field at some point this season. #TakeFlight
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2022, 02:43:39 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 28, 2022, 02:58:55 PM
At some point you need to focus on field production than "potential" and draft position
Post by: reuben on November 28, 2022, 03:16:52 PM
Paul Andrew Esden Jr
@BoyGreen25
·
3m
#Jets HC Robert Saleh said they'll go "week-to-week" on the QB decision.
When Zach Wilson is ready to roll, he will roll. So sounds like the intent is still to get him back on the field at some point this season. #TakeFlight
"When"
Zach's done for the year. The innate flaws in his game won't be fixed by a couple weeks running the scout team. He needs an offseason at least.
I don't know if Mike White is the answer. He probably isn't, but I'm hopeful. But if he isn't, and you go back to Zach, and Zach stinks again, you've likely nailed the coffin shut on his Jets career going into 2023.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 28, 2022, 03:57:09 PM
Paul Andrew Esden Jr
@BoyGreen25
·
3m
#Jets HC Robert Saleh said they'll go "week-to-week" on the QB decision.
When Zach Wilson is ready to roll, he will roll. So sounds like the intent is still to get him back on the field at some point this season. #TakeFlight
Why the freak would he say this
Show some confidence in White, let him ride.
If he melts down like last year, then you say week to week. Bullshit. Otherwise Mike White is the guy until we're eliminated from the playoffs, then Zach Wilson can develop in garbage matchups
Post by: dcm1602 on November 28, 2022, 04:13:13 PM
But I hope the Jets organization takes some ownership or at least provides more firm direction of Zachs training after this season.
The Jets had to coddle Wilson by signing his personal QB coach to the organization.
Obviously John Beck isn't freaking cutting it, so now the Jets have to do everything they can to salvage this reclamation project. Maybe it's time to hire a QB coach based on his qualifications, not based on his Mormon underpants
Post by: Heismanberg on November 28, 2022, 04:36:25 PM
I don't remember a lot of what was discussed here
But I hope the Jets organization takes some ownership or at least provides more firm direction of Zachs training after this season.
The Jets had to coddle Wilson by signing his personal QB coach to the organization.
Obviously John Beck isn't freaking cutting it, so now the Jets have to do everything they can to salvage this reclamation project. Maybe it's time to hire a QB coach based on his qualifications, not based on his Mormon underpants
John Beck doesn't work for the Jets this season. They hired Beck because Greg Knapp died.
Rob Calabrese is the QB coach. He isn't good.
Post by: Badger on November 28, 2022, 05:03:43 PM
Paul Andrew Esden JrI was told his career was over doe
@BoyGreen25
·
3m
#Jets HC Robert Saleh said they'll go "week-to-week" on the QB decision.
When Zach Wilson is ready to roll, he will roll. So sounds like the intent is still to get him back on the field at some point this season. #TakeFlight
Unless #SalehLied
Post by: Coach K on November 28, 2022, 05:13:22 PM
Ngl this meme is gold though
Post by: Coach K on November 28, 2022, 05:15:00 PM
I was told his career was over doeI dont think Saleh would go to the media when your YIPPIE KAYAY MFER Qb looked like a young Palpatine while the team was winning needs to hear anything other than a neutral response
Unless #SalehLied
Post by: dcm1602 on November 28, 2022, 05:27:25 PM
John Beck doesn't work for the Jets this season. They hired Beck because Greg Knapp died.
Rob Calabrese is the QB coach. He isn't good.
Didn't they hire Beck in November?
I didn't realize that Beck no longer is affiliated with the team
But this is what was also reported on Beck
Last year, New York hired Beck midseason “because they were so concerned by Wilson’s poor start and felt the young quarterback needed a familiar shoulder to lean on,” Cimini wrote.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 28, 2022, 05:44:37 PM
Wilson is in for a long media shaming. Jesus . I've criticized him but this is rough .
Ngl this meme is gold though
Wunderbar
Post by: Heismanberg on November 28, 2022, 05:58:07 PM
I didn't realize that Beck no longer is affiliated with the team
clearly
Post by: Badger on November 28, 2022, 07:04:50 PM
clearlyCouldn't fit him under the coach cap.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2022, 08:59:46 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 28, 2022, 09:39:44 PM
this goes without saying but in order to make it at the top level in professional sports you not only need the physical traits to make the cut, but the mental intelligence and fortitude to do so as well. it's why a guy like denzel mims, for as gifted as he is physically, hasn't made it here yet. i love bringing up michael beasley as an example to my friends, as he is a guy that players like lebron and KD describe as a 'walking bucket', but never made it because he never had what it takes mentally.
zach by all accounts seems like an intelligent kid and works very hard, but if he can't complete a checkdown due to a 'mental block', he's finished. a lot of us here asked what the 'yips' reference even meant as it's something we don't see or hear of often at this level; it's not something we see happen to actual top QBs at all. it's happened to zach.
factoring in his thin skin to criticism and the likelihood that he was operating in this position with some level of entitlement and immaturity, i think saleh is being very kind to him in saying he will go back in when he's ready. he's keeping the media hounds off of him. the only way there's a chance zach goes back in at this point is if mike white gets hurt, and if he does i can see us giving flacco a long look before we decide to throw zach back into the fire.
no matter how you cut it it's not good
Post by: Badger on November 28, 2022, 10:35:39 PM
having the 'yips' to this degree and for as prolonged a period as he's had it is a very poor prognostic sign for him here. who knows what he can do with his nfl career but i don't see a way he can meaningfully turn this around and become something with the jets, especially if white continues to show he is at the very least serviceable or we sign a solid vet like jimmy G to hold the fort.I don't think what we've seen is unique to Zach though. It doesn't look much different than things we saw when Sanchez or Darnold struggled. I know everyone here can remember seeing them skip the ball in front of their target's feet on what should be easy throws and wondering wtf.
this goes without saying but in order to make it at the top level in professional sports you not only need the physical traits to make the cut, but the mental intelligence and fortitude to do so as well. it's why a guy like denzel mims, for as gifted as he is physically, hasn't made it here yet. i love bringing up michael beasley as an example to my friends, as he is a guy that players like lebron and KD describe as a 'walking bucket', but never made it because he never had what it takes mentally.
zach by all accounts seems like an intelligent kid and works very hard, but if he can't complete a checkdown due to a 'mental block', he's finished. a lot of us here asked what the 'yips' reference even meant as it's something we don't see or hear of often at this level; it's not something we see happen to actual top QBs at all. it's happened to zach.
factoring in his thin skin to criticism and the likelihood that he was operating in this position with some level of entitlement and immaturity, i think saleh is being very kind to him in saying he will go back in when he's ready. he's keeping the media hounds off of him. the only way there's a chance zach goes back in at this point is if mike white gets hurt, and if he does i can see us giving flacco a long look before we decide to throw zach back into the fire.
no matter how you cut it it's not good
I think the biggest difference is the situation. Right now we have a combination of 1. bad play 2. we currently expect the Jets to win games and 3. not being particularly likeable. Not even going to get into coaching since I don't recall any Jets fan ever saying how much they loved what our offensive staff was doing with our young QB - questionable at best offensive coaching has been a constant throughout the years.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 29, 2022, 08:53:11 AM
Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Zm-xLjOt4
Chris Simms Hot Take: White played well, but Wilson should've started. Jets win 28-10 with Wilson under center.
Give him credit, he's going down with the ship
Post by: Heismanberg on November 29, 2022, 09:05:42 AM
Saleh made the right call. He also made the right call benching James Robinson for Bam Knight.
He should start getting COTY recognition.
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 09:07:52 AM
I think Wilson should've been given one more shot against a bad defense like Chicago but there's no way he pulls to trigger on both of those passes to Elijah Moore.
Saleh made the right call. He also made the right call benching James Robinson for Bam Knight.
He should start getting COTY recognition.
It's going to be Sirianni or O'Connell barring spectacular collapses in the next six weeks.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 29, 2022, 09:11:28 AM
Chris Simms Hot Take: White played well, but Wilson should've started. Jets win 28-10 with Wilson under center.
Give him credit, he's going down with the ship
Apparently they think this will result in a messy divorce. And they floated the idea of the Jets trading him for a 2nd round pick?
I suppose it's a medium risk high reward thing, but I'd hate to be the franchise giving up a 2nd for him.
But if we could shop Zach for a 2nd, go into next season with Jimmy G and Mike White, thats gotta be a boon for this teams playoff chances.
And I just don't see us bringing in a Jimmy G if Wilson is on the roster, unless Jimmy Gs market is complete and utter excrement
Post by: dcm1602 on November 29, 2022, 09:15:49 AM
It's going to be Sirianni or O'Connell barring spectacular collapses in the next six weeks.
O'Connell isn't in most top 2 or 3s as far as betting odds
Sirianni is by far the favorite.
But McDaniel can give him a run for his money. Saleh Daboll O'Connell and Mccarthy are all fairly up there as well.
Eagles have some potentially tough matchups against the titans giants and Cowboys, but are the safest bet to have the best record in the league
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 09:33:21 AM
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2022, 09:42:35 AM
It's going to be Sirianni or O'Connell barring spectacular collapses in the next six weeks.Saleh could knock O'Connell down a peg this week.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 10:41:30 AM
Eagles were a playoff team last year. I am fine with Sirianni favored but he shouldn't be odds on. If Eagles go 14-3 against their schedule after already being good last year, I don't know if thats enough if the Jets win 10-11.
If the Jets make the playoffs, I think the narrative will move towards Saleh.
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2022, 10:44:16 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 29, 2022, 10:46:53 AM
One silver lining to consider, if Zach were to actually be labeled a bust, is that JE was wrong all along about the tank in 2020.
He was wrong no matter what
Post by: Heismanberg on November 29, 2022, 10:48:15 AM
We lost our two best offensive players to injury and he made a change at QB. Our defense also made a huge jump.
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
He was wrong no matter whatYeah but then it would be scientifically proven.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 10:54:55 AM
Yeah but then it would be scientifically proven.Nah it's already proven. The good news is JE will always have his unmitigated joy from Frank Gore falling derriere backwards for a 1st down.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 29, 2022, 10:59:14 AM
O'Connell isn't in most top 2 or 3s as far as betting odds
Sirianni is by far the favorite.
But McDaniel can give him a run for his money. Saleh Daboll O'Connell and Mccarthy are all fairly up there as well.
Eagles have some potentially tough matchups against the titans giants and Cowboys, but are the safest bet to have the best record in the league
Daboll will be forgotten once the giants start losing with that remaining schedule. Eagles x 2, commanders x 2, Vikings.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 11:18:40 AM
Daboll will be forgotten once the giants start losing with that remaining schedule. Eagles x 2, commanders x 2, Vikings.His odds have already tanked, largely because of that.
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 12:57:16 PM
One silver lining to consider, if Zach were to actually be labeled a bust, is that JE was wrong all along about the tank in 2020.
He was wrong no matter what
Nah it's already proven. The good news is JE will always have his unmitigated joy from Frank Gore falling derriere backwards for a 1st down.
Only losers enjoy losing.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 01:05:24 PM
Only losers enjoy losing.Only losers want to root for Sam Darnold and Jamal Adams.
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2022, 01:06:09 PM
Only losers enjoy losing.In exchange for 2 meaningless wins in 2020 we were awarded 2 awful losses to NE in 2022, you must have enjoyed that trade.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 01:07:18 PM
Only losers want to root for Sam Darnold and Jamal Adams.
In exchange for 2 meaningless wins in 2020 we were awarded 2 awful losses to NE in 2022, you must have enjoyed that trade.
tough room
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 01:10:59 PM
Only losers want to root for Sam Darnold and Jamal Adams.
“Loyalty to any one sports team is pretty hard to justify, because the players are always changing, the team can move to another city. You're actually rooting for the clothes when you get right down to it. You know what I mean? You are standing and cheering and yelling for your clothes to beat the clothes from another city. Fans will be so in love with a player, but if he goes to another team, they boo him. This is the same human being in a different shirt; they hate him now. Boo! Different shirt! Boo!”
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 01:12:16 PM
“Loyalty to any one sports team is pretty hard to justify, because the players are always changing, the team can move to another city. You're actually rooting for the clothes when you get right down to it. You know what I mean? You are standing and cheering and yelling for your clothes to beat the clothes from another city. Fans will be so in love with a player, but if he goes to another team, they boo him. This is the same human being in a different shirt; they hate him now. Boo! Different shirt! Boo!”
Just take the L, JE. lol
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 01:14:45 PM
Just take the L, JE. lol
I'm not the one who roots for losses, like a loser. Because I do not, and have not ever, subscribed to magic quarterback theory.
If only we'd just lost a bit harder we could have had Justin Lawrence and been like the..... *checks AFC standings*...... 4-7 Jaguars.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 01:18:00 PM
I'm not the one who roots for losses, like a loser. Because I do not, and have not ever, subscribed to magic quarterback theory.
If only we'd just lost a bit harder we could have had Justin Lawrence and been like the..... *checks AFC standings*...... 4-7 Jaguars.
that's because you have a history of not seeing the big picture.
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 01:18:59 PM
that's because you have a history of being right.
FTFY
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 01:22:01 PM
FTFY
not even close
But at least now you're seeing what happens when you win meaningless games.
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 01:24:26 PM
not even close
But at least now you're seeing what happens when you win meaningless games.
The GM drafts a excrement QB and then we go and have a winning season anyway? Cool.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 01:25:56 PM
The GM drafts a excrement QB and then we go and have a winning season anyway? Cool.
No...we could still be looking for that elusive franchise QB. Try and keep up.
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 01:29:41 PM
No...we could still be looking for that elusive franchise QB. Try and keep up.
We would have been if we'd finished with the #1 pick as well. Lawrence isn't anything close to being the generational QB he was claimed to be, because if he was they wouldn't be 4-7 (I'm perfectly willing to write off the Urban Meyer season). So your argument basically boils down to the fact that tanking is stupid because thus far Justin Fields and Mac Jones are demonstrably the best QBs from that draft, and we could have gone 6-10 and had either of them.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 29, 2022, 01:34:15 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 01:34:51 PM
We would have been if we'd finished with the #1 pick as well. Lawrence isn't anything close to being the generational QB he was claimed to be, because if he was they wouldn't be 4-7 (I'm perfectly willing to write off the Urban Meyer season). So your argument basically boils down to the fact that tanking is stupid because thus far Justin Fields and Mac Jones are demonstrably the best QBs from that draft, and we could have gone 6-10 and had either of them.If your argument is wins and losses, then Zach Wilson is a top-10 NFL QB already, so we would have our franchise QB.
There is no shot Lawrence would be benched after 12 weeks.
Really, your argument should just be, "What if we just drafted Fields?"
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 01:37:29 PM
If your argument is wins and losses, then Zach Wilson is a top-10 NFL QB already, so we would have our franchise QB.
There is no shot Lawrence would be benched after 12 weeks.
Really, your argument should just be, "What if we just drafted Fields?"
As someone once said on this board:
"Teams that draft well do so no matter where they pick. Teams that draft poorly do so no matter where they pick. I want my team to win games and draft well."
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 01:40:02 PM
We would have been if we'd finished with the #1 pick as well. Lawrence isn't anything close to being the generational QB he was claimed to be, because if he was they wouldn't be 4-7 (I'm perfectly willing to write off the Urban Meyer season). So your argument basically boils down to the fact that tanking is stupid because thus far Justin Fields and Mac Jones are demonstrably the best QBs from that draft, and we could have gone 6-10 and had either of them.
No...sometimes you have to tank for better draft position. Not always, but usually in drafts when you need a QB. This is the way.
Post by: Jumbo on November 29, 2022, 01:50:52 PM
As someone once said on this board:
"Teams that draft well do so no matter where they pick. Teams that draft poorly do so no matter where they pick. I want my team to win games and draft well."
This sounds good but isn't true. You're much more likely to draft a good player with a higher pick even statistically. The real advantage is in drafting players that have actual starting value after the first round
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 29, 2022, 01:56:57 PM
No...sometimes you have to tank for better draft position. Not always, but usually in drafts when you need a QB. This is the way.
Yea except we've been calling to tank every season we struggle and then we would just struggle the next season. I'm still having trouble finding too many examples of us tanking actually paying off.
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 02:04:31 PM
No...sometimes you have to tank for better draft position. Not always, but usually in drafts when you need a QB. This is the way.
The best QBs in the last five drafts (not counting 2022 as it's too soon) have been taken 11, 1, 6 (arguably), 7 and 10. The only time the first QB off the board was the best one is Burrow, and even then the consolation prize at 6 (Herbert) was also a franchise guy. (Some might argue that Murray was the best in 2019 but they'd be wrong. It was generally a excrement year for QBs.)
So no, I don't accept your argument. For every time the QB who goes 1OA turns out to actually be the best, there are multiple drafts in which the best one was actually selected later on. The effort and the goodwill cost required to lose enough to get the first overall pick simply doesn't justify the return.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 02:05:28 PM
Yea except we've been calling to tank every season we struggle and then we would just struggle the next season. I'm still having trouble finding too many examples of us tanking actually paying off.Lawrence has played really well the last three games. If this team had Lawrence, I would legitimiately have Super Bowl aspirations, hoping he could keep improving. I have no idea how good he will end up being, but having a developing young QB with upside who is improving as his 2nd season goes on (without Meyer) is exactly where I was hoping we would be with ZW.
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 02:06:35 PM
Lawrence has played really well the last three games. If this team had Lawrence, I would legitimiately have Super Bowl aspirations, hoping he could keep improving. I have no idea how good he will end up being, but having a developing young QB with upside who is improving as his 2nd season goes on (without Meyer) is exactly where I was hoping we would be with ZW.
Maybe, but wouldn't you rather have Fields than Lawrence? Based on what I've seen of both of them I definitely would.
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2022, 02:06:44 PM
The effort and the goodwill cost required to lose enough to get the first overall pick simply doesn't justify the return.
2020 was so bad that there was no difference in agony between what we did vs losing every game.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 02:06:57 PM
The best QBs in the last five drafts (not counting 2022 as it's too soon) have been taken 11, 1, 6 (arguably), 7 and 10. The only time the first QB off the board was the best one is Burrow, and even then the consolation prize at 6 (Herbert) was also a franchise guy. (Some might argue that Murray was the best in 2019 but they'd be wrong. It was generally a excrement year for QBs.)Wait, you're retroactively putting Daniel Jones as the best QB in that draft? What? I agree it was a generally bad year for QBs, but that's absurd.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 02:08:09 PM
Exactly. That year was awful, 0-17 or 1-16.
2020 was so bad that there was no difference in agony between what we did vs losing every game.
I admit it's nice not being in the record books as having an 0-17 season on our books. That is the only argument against tanking that season that I will accept.
Post by: reuben on November 29, 2022, 02:10:38 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 02:10:39 PM
Wait, you're retroactively putting Daniel Jones as the best QB in that draft? What? I agree it was a generally bad year for QBs, but that's absurd.
Yes, because we're having this conversation with the benefit of hindsight, and I think that Daniel Jones is a better QB today than Kyler Murray. I did allow for this one being arguable!
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 02:11:35 PM
I don't know how you could have watched Adam Gase - especially at a point where a third year was a possibility - and thought, "I'd like this nice man to win some games."
I don't give a freak about Gase's feelings, or those of any other coach. I want the Jets to win on a Sunday.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 02:11:47 PM
Yea except we've been calling to tank every season we struggle and then we would just struggle the next season. I'm still having trouble finding too many examples of us tanking actually paying off.
Because we've never actually tanked properly. We always got that one useless win to freak ourselves.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 02:12:40 PM
The best QBs in the last five drafts (not counting 2022 as it's too soon) have been taken 11, 1, 6 (arguably), 7 and 10. The only time the first QB off the board was the best one is Burrow, and even then the consolation prize at 6 (Herbert) was also a franchise guy. (Some might argue that Murray was the best in 2019 but they'd be wrong. It was generally a excrement year for QBs.)
So no, I don't accept your argument. For every time the QB who goes 1OA turns out to actually be the best, there are multiple drafts in which the best one was actually selected later on. The effort and the goodwill cost required to lose enough to get the first overall pick simply doesn't justify the return.
You don't have to accept it or like it. But it's still "right".
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 02:17:01 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 02:19:34 PM
Tanking is certainly not foolproof. You still have to pick the right players. But picking the right players is always easier the earlier you draft.
this is correct
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 29, 2022, 02:20:37 PM
Lawrence has played really well the last three games. If this team had Lawrence, I would legitimiately have Super Bowl aspirations, hoping he could keep improving. I have no idea how good he will end up being, but having a developing young QB with upside who is improving as his 2nd season goes on (without Meyer) is exactly where I was hoping we would be with ZW.
If my steering wheel were made of pie I could drive and eat at the same time.
The point is that our tank picks were not great.
I don't know how you could have watched Adam Gase - especially at a point where a third year was a possibility - and thought, "I'd like this nice man to win some games."
Ideally for me we would have won more games and then fired Gase anyway after the entire team picked him up and threw him put of the locker room at the end of the season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2022, 02:21:49 PM
If my steering wheel were made of pie I could drive and eat at the same time.How? Either the pie is too hard where you wouldn't want to eat it, or it's soft and sticky and would break down every time you would grab the wheel.
Color me intrigued though.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2022, 02:25:06 PM
How? Either the pie is too hard where you wouldn't want to eat it, or it's soft and sticky and would break down every time you would grab the wheel.
Color me intrigued though.
maybe it's hair pie
Post by: Johnny English on November 29, 2022, 02:42:15 PM
You don't have to accept it or like it. But it's still "right".
I like that you put "right" in quotation marks, because it makes your statement exactly correct. Logically it should be the right thing to do, but the evidence proves that it historically hasn't been. I suspect that this is mostly because bad teams are bad because they have worse players and coaches than other teams, and those players and coaches are selected by the same person or people who are doing the prospect scouting, analysis and drafting, which means that the chances of good players being identified and drafted are lower for the teams in better position to draft them.
As a fan I hate the whole concept, but if the evidence showed that it led to long term improvement I might be able to wear it. It clearly shows otherwise though, and so it becomes impossible for me to support.
Badger's statement from years ago is exactly correct, IMO.
Post by: delavan on November 29, 2022, 03:43:36 PM
maybe it's hair pieon a hair pin turn
🥧
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 29, 2022, 09:51:01 PM
Post by: Badger on November 30, 2022, 07:17:39 AM
https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/analysis/how-nfl-coaches-can-help-players-flip-switch-turn-light-on/
My dad sent me this link and I think it's worth a read.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 30, 2022, 08:31:39 AM
Bill Parcells on "turning the light on" for Phil Simms
https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/analysis/how-nfl-coaches-can-help-players-flip-switch-turn-light-on/
My dad sent me this link and I think it's worth a read.
It was a good read. Essentially information overload for Simms and his coaches simplified it to the point that they said “If A do this. If B, do that. Everything else is irrelevant.”
Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what Zach needs right now too
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 30, 2022, 09:53:25 AM
It was a good read. Essentially information overload for Simms and his coaches simplified it to the point that they said “If A do this. If B, do that. Everything else is irrelevant.”
Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what Zach needs right now too
Agreed that was a good read. And likely something that will benefit Zach...once he learns how to properly throw the ball again.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 30, 2022, 10:52:25 AM
Agreed that was a good read. And likely something that will benefit Zach...once he learns how to properly throw the ball again.
Before anything else Zach has to fix his feet. They are god awful right now. He can’t make basic throws because his fundamentals are bad. Honestly I’d be curious to see him throwing routes on air with a fake pass rusher coming into his face. I bet it’s just as bad and that’s what everyone has been seeing in practice and why he’s on the bench. Making the right decision doesn’t matter if your mechanics are so bad you cant get the ball there
Post by: Miamipuck on November 30, 2022, 11:27:13 AM
Post by: guinness77 on November 30, 2022, 11:40:32 AM
Post by: Johnny English on November 30, 2022, 11:47:39 AM
I love it when JE and MBG argue. Talk about 2 guys (on here at least) that will never admit to being wrong.
That's not even close to being right. I'm always open to having my mind changed by a persuasive argument that is backed up by evidence and facts.
Post by: MBGreen on November 30, 2022, 11:52:32 AM
That's not even close to being right. I'm always open to having my mind changed by a persuasive argument that is backed up by evidence and facts.
No you're not
Post by: MBGreen on November 30, 2022, 11:53:20 AM
I love it when JE and MBG argue. Talk about 2 guys (on here at least) that will never admit to being wrong.
Pending a Jets win this weekend, i'm prepared to eat crow regarding MLF.
Post by: Badger on November 30, 2022, 12:04:48 PM
Zach sucks he ain't turning into Phil Simms. Phil was smart and likeable, Wilson is none of that, nobody wants him under center other than some milfs.I don't think it's fair to assume Zach isn't smart. If you mean smart on the field then the Simms had the same issue according to the story.
Of course that doesn't guarantee Zach's problem is fixable/coachable.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 30, 2022, 01:31:04 PM
I don't think it's fair to assume Zach isn't smart. If you mean smart on the field then the Simms had the same issue according to the story.
Of course that doesn't guarantee Zach's problem is fixable/coachable.
Well at least you agree about the milf part.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 30, 2022, 05:22:12 PM
Uzomah talking about Zach post Pats game and briefly the chat he had mid week with the locker room after Saleh announced the change to the team that White was playing
Post by: guinness77 on November 30, 2022, 06:08:12 PM
That's not even close to being right. I'm always open to having my mind changed by a persuasive argument that is backed up by evidence and facts.Lol
No you're notAnd…lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 30, 2022, 07:18:32 PM
I don't think it's fair to assume Zach isn't smart. If you mean smart on the field then the Simms had the same issue according to the story.I think there is also a difference between being smart and applying it on the field.
Of course that doesn't guarantee Zach's problem is fixable/coachable.
I think Zach is smart. I think that's part if why he drafted him. But if he can't apply it to game situations, it isn't relevant.
J.T. O'Sullivan, Dan Orlovsky and Chris Simms may be good at breaking down film. But none were good enough when they actually played for a variety of reasons.
Post by: steves850 on December 01, 2022, 09:49:43 AM
Post by: reuben on December 01, 2022, 10:29:44 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 01, 2022, 11:18:07 AM
Post by: Badger on December 01, 2022, 06:54:46 PM
He can't read a defense or a room. I don't care how good he is at Trivial Pursuit.The best part of Trivial Pursuit is dunking on the sports-ignorant nerds in that category.
Post by: Coach K on December 02, 2022, 07:24:24 PM
Yeah this kid is fried and it ain't MLF lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 02, 2022, 09:27:10 PM
Lol man yall see Rappaport show the play where it's a literal pass play called and he hands it offMMLF needs to do a better job telling Zach to pass the ball on pass plays.
Yeah this kid is fried and it ain't MLF lol
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 02, 2022, 10:22:34 PM
MLF needs to do a better job telling Zach to pass the ball on pass plays.
He’s just not getting Zach into a good handoff rhythm.
Post by: Jumbo on December 02, 2022, 11:08:17 PM
MLF needs to do a better job telling Zach to pass the ball on pass plays.
Scheme is too confusing. As the QB, impossible to tell whether you should be passing or handing off on any given play
Post by: dcm1602 on December 03, 2022, 07:38:00 AM
Post by: delavan on December 05, 2022, 11:52:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjUk8eZNBWU
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2022, 08:24:52 AM
ZW: get back to workThat pocket was a thing of beauty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjUk8eZNBWU
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 08:26:20 AM
That pocket was a thing of beauty.
I know the family of Phins fans sitting in front of us loved it.
Post by: Coach K on December 11, 2022, 03:34:11 PM
That being said you better suit up Zach because Flacco can catch these god damn hands
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2022, 03:44:41 PM
Mike white for president
That being said you better suit up Zach because Flacco can catch these god damn hands
Just hit the "Bane button" on Streveler and let him cook.
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2022, 06:03:33 PM
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2022, 06:32:44 PM
Jets fans after losing a Zach Wilson start: "I'm going to kill myself and everyone around me."
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2022, 06:34:41 PM
Jets fans after losing a Mike White start: "It's alright we played tough and had some bad breaks."We have hope when the QB isn't the reason we lose.
Jets fans after losing a Zach Wilson start: "I'm going to kill myself and everyone around me."
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2022, 06:39:26 PM
We have hope when the QB isn't the reason we lose.
Yeah, White wasn't turning his back on the field at the first hint of pressure, running around for the backfield for ten seconds spinning out of tackles, then throwing it to a DB on the sideline. If he was then we might feel the same way as we do when Wilson does it.
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2022, 06:39:51 PM
We have hope when the QB isn't the reason we lose.I'm not seeing proportional hate for the players who lost this game.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2022, 06:41:17 PM
I'm not seeing proportional hate for the players who lost this game.Because it's divided amongst 2 players instead of 1.
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2022, 06:42:33 PM
Because it's divided amongst 2 players instead of 1.You're right, the fanbase is definitely not being irrational and has no history of such behavior.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2022, 06:46:11 PM
You're right, the fanbase is definitely not being irrational and has no history of such behavior.I'm failing to see how the fans not shitting on Mike White after the past 3 games doesn't make sense after he kept us in all the games.
I'm failing to see how the fans shitting on Zach Wilson for being the main reason we lost games when we lost doesn't make sense.
Every fan base is irrational.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2022, 06:50:29 PM
We played a team that was better than us, played them pretty evenly, and lost because we screwed up on several pivotal plays. It's not the first time it happened, and it's extremely frustrating, but I don't really know who to be mad at. You can argue that if White and Quinnen stay healthy, we win that game. If Mosley doesn't jump offsides and Carter and Flacco don't fumble, maybe we win.
Wilson was terrible for the bulk of 2 years, and it was obvious he was bringing the team down with his play. Not sure that is obvious with anyone else right now (Solomon Thomas?)
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2022, 07:03:13 PM
Feed Bam and hope he stays healthy.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2022, 07:15:16 PM
I'm not down on Michael Carter. He just got back from injury, and he was never meant to be anything more than a complimentary running back in this system.
I mean he was complimenting Bam Knight when he fumbled. He needs to be more of a factor in the passing game. He just can't do a lot between the tackles.
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2022, 07:17:57 PM
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2022, 07:18:37 PM
I mean he was complimenting Bam Knight when he fumbled. He needs to be more of a factor in the passing game. He just can't do a lot between the tackles.I actually saw someone blame LaFleur for Carter's fumble today which I thought was exceptionally funny and way more extreme than the MLF hate on here.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2022, 07:21:18 PM
If you think I want people to excrement on White and Carter then you don't get it.
I'll excrement on Wilson for literally anything until he's back under center where I'm legally required to be optimistic and.hopeful.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2022, 07:25:44 PM
I'll excrement on Wilson for literally anything until he's back under center where I'm legally required to be optimistic and.hopeful.I'll excrement on him until he plays well.
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2022, 07:27:50 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2022, 07:29:50 PM
I've just seen Jets fans put all their hopes and dreams in "the other guy" time after time only to have the bubble burst. It seems to me that shitting on Zach is an intrinsic part of the Mike White frenzy. I find that unnecessary since I'll root for either guy, whoever is playing.This
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2022, 07:31:51 PM
He was a top prospect because of his arm talent and his ability to make plays off-script. We don't use him that way. The coaching staff is forcing him to play from the pocket and not rolling him out. We've seen more designed rollouts for White in the past few games than we saw for Wilson all season.
The kid doesn't see the field. At least try to cut it in half for him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2022, 07:32:36 PM
I'll excrement on him until he plays well.
Or this. This is fine.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2022, 07:34:08 PM
I've just seen Jets fans put all their hopes and dreams in "the other guy" time after time only to have the bubble burst. It seems to me that shitting on Zach is an intrinsic part of the Mike White frenzy. I find that unnecessary since I'll root for either guy, whoever is playing.I get this. I don't think there's anything unsound about putting our hopes in Mike White.....for this season. I think that's what most fans are doing. Zach hasn't done anything to deserve the starting job. You are right that as fans we shouldn't excrement on him while he's on the bench, it's not fair or useful. But if he's in there and freaking up over and over, I will not hesitate to take a giant dump on him.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 11, 2022, 07:48:45 PM
I'm not seeing proportional hate for the players who lost this game.
That's bc it's all MLF's fault
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2022, 07:52:54 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 11, 2022, 08:45:29 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 11, 2022, 09:08:05 PM
I've just seen Jets fans put all their hopes and dreams in "the other guy" time after time only to have the bubble burst. It seems to me that shitting on Zach is an intrinsic part of the Mike White frenzy. I find that unnecessary since I'll root for either guy, whoever is playing.
Shitting on Zach was consistently a thing before Whited frenzy
The guy is regularly among the worst QBs in the league and does the same freaking excrement all the time.
Is Mike White gonna be our Drew Brees? Probably not, but he's shown enough that he deserves a contract and an open path to winning the QB competition.
With a full offseason and anything even resembling a healthy OL, White could offer the best QB play we've seen since Pennington and Testaverde (excluding Favres short stint here)
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2022, 09:14:22 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on December 11, 2022, 09:30:51 PM
I feel this board has been relatively rational on Zach. We excrement on him because he's been perhaps the worst QB in the NFL for back-to-back years.
Nahhhhh
Post by: Badger on December 12, 2022, 06:26:56 AM
Is Mike White gonna be our Drew Brees? Probably not, but he's shown enough that he deserves a contract and an open path to winning the QB competition.
Imagine if Drew Brees was written off after 2 years.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 12, 2022, 08:18:00 AM
Imagine if Geno Smith was written off after 2 years.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 12, 2022, 08:21:18 AM
Imagine if Drew Brees was written off after 2 years.
Yeah, it took 3 years for the Chargers to draft his replacement.*
3 years of him playing.
Post by: delavan on December 12, 2022, 08:21:46 AM
I've just seen Jets fans put all their hopes and dreams in "the other guy" time after time only to have the bubble burst. It seems to me that shitting on Zach is an intrinsic part of the Mike White frenzy. I find that unnecessary since I'll root for either guy, whoever is playing.Spot on
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 12, 2022, 09:53:09 AM
my doubts with him were actually cemented after the first pats game. those last 2 picks in that game were just so nonsensical and inexplicable, my only thoughts were this kid is toast lmfaoo. but we've seen plays like those from him so many times. missing wide open short check downs repeatedly for no reason. throwing these air ball picks to absolutely nobody other than opposing defenders where all you can think of is 'who the hell is he actually trying to throw it to?' lmao. for the life of me i'm done watching zach attempt throws to guys that are nowhere near open into 2-3 defenders, or miss his own guys completely and throw lame duck lay-ups into the defenders lap due to his pee poor mechanics.
i know a lot of that above can be seen as just 'emotion' about a player, but the final nail in the coffin with him should be all of the 'mental block' stuff that was revealed. if the pressures of trying to be an NFL QB are so much for him that he cannot remember whether the called play is a pass attempt or a handoff, homie's cooked.
there are of course other things in play that make his job harder, but i don't see any 'turn on the light switch' or way back from excrement like that. even top, 'cerebral' QBs who have amazing playmakers/OL and complimentary/competent offensive coaches around them will still find themselves in high pressure situations. i'd absolutely love to be proven wrong about zach and i would accept the crow wholeheartedly but all he's ever shown us is the propensity to mentally wilt in those situations.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 14, 2022, 09:39:53 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 14, 2022, 09:49:54 AM
Zach is the #2 QB this week per Saleh.
This is the way
Post by: Gorilla on December 14, 2022, 10:02:33 AM
Zach is the #2 QB this week per Saleh.
Everyone with functioning eyeballs, including Flacco and his family: "no duh."
Post by: bojanglesman on December 14, 2022, 10:06:43 AM
This is the way
I was hoping the Jeff Smith-cat would be the plan at #2
Post by: MBGreen on December 14, 2022, 10:08:00 AM
I was hoping the Jeff Smith-cat would be the plan at #2
I was actually hoping for Streveler because i'm interested in winning a Super Bowl. Maybe next year.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 14, 2022, 10:19:40 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 14, 2022, 10:22:41 AM
I'm OK with this.
whew! i was freaking worried.
Post by: Johnny English on December 14, 2022, 10:24:37 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 14, 2022, 10:25:50 AM
If you are in the stadium this weekend, I would like to make you aware that it is legal for you to kill anyone who chants for Zach to come in the first time White throws a pick or misses an open receiver.
Mike White will only be taken out if he takes another stiff shot to the ribs. He certainly won't be a 100%
The oline needs to be better this week.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2022, 11:09:10 AM
All hands on deck.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 14, 2022, 11:34:25 AM
Mike White will only be taken out if he takes another stiff shot to the ribs. He certainly won't be a 100%
The oline needs to be better this week.
Yep bc MLF is running empty sets ALL GAME LONG!
Post by: bojanglesman on December 14, 2022, 11:44:14 AM
If you are in the stadium this weekend, I would like to make you aware that it is legal for you to kill anyone who chants for Zach to come in the first time White throws a pick or misses an open receiver.Oh I'm gonna.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 14, 2022, 12:01:11 PM
With the #Jets preparing for Mike White to start, coach Robert Saleh announces that Zach Wilson will be the backup QB. A promotion back to the game day roster.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 14, 2022, 12:02:41 PM
I was actually hoping for Streveler because i'm interested in winning a Super Bowl. Maybe next year.
Streveler was a fun watch in preseason, but I don't understand how you think we're better with him over Zach at backup. He was this year's Clowney.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 14, 2022, 12:04:48 PM
It's going to be awful if there is any struggle on White's part. The last thing this team needs while in a playoff hunt is a QB controversy.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2022, 12:08:41 PM
Also, this is weird from the perspective of "If Zach's ready to roll, he's the guy." He's ready to play, but not really ready?We benched the No. 2 pick in the draft when he was healthy. There's already something of a QB controversy. It's not ideal to have one when you're in a playoff hunt, but it's also not ideal to have Mike White and Zach Wilson lead a team in a playoff hunt.
It's going to be awful if there is any struggle on White's part. The last thing this team needs while in a playoff hunt is a QB controversy.
Right now, Saleh seems to be straddling a line of wanting to keep Zach's confidence up long-term while not creating a QB controversy.
Post by: MBGreen on December 14, 2022, 12:15:42 PM
Streveler was a fun watch in preseason, but I don't understand how you think we're better with him over Zach at backup. He was this year's Clowney.
maybe...maybe not
Post by: Libero_2 on December 14, 2022, 12:25:15 PM
Also, this is weird from the perspective of "If Zach's ready to roll, he's the guy." He's ready to play, but not really ready?
It's going to be awful if there is any struggle on White's part. The last thing this team needs while in a playoff hunt is a QB controversy.
Zach’s not playing unless White gets hurt, which given the state his ribs must be in, is entirely possible if he takes a few big shots again this weekend.
The only way we have a controversy is if White gets knocked out in a game we are losing, and Zach walks on the field and dominates the game leading us to a comeback victory. If we were up ten and Zach makes a couple small throws and we just continue as we were there isn’t much of a controversy to be had. Same if we are down ten and Zach also produces minimal effect. White would have to be losing the game, and Zach come back and win it playing much like Q4 at Pitt for there to be questions about who’s QB on Thursday.
Post by: Johnny English on December 14, 2022, 12:42:58 PM
The only way we have a controversy is if White gets knocked out in a game we are losing, and Zach walks on the field and dominates the game leading us to a comeback victory.
I would like to have this kind of controversy every week please.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 14, 2022, 04:02:27 PM
Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxIm7Vli6o4
Zach spoke to media today
Pretty vanilla...said all the right things
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2022, 04:14:00 PM
If you are in the stadium this weekend, I would like to make you aware that it is legal for you to kill anyone who chants for Zach to come in the first time White throws a pick or misses an open receiver.The people who would do this are still less obnoxious than the ones who will boo Wilson when he comes into a game.
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2022, 04:16:16 PM
It's going to be awful if there is any struggle on White's part. The last thing this team needs while in a playoff hunt is a QB controversy.
This take is about 3 weeks late.
Post by: delavan on December 15, 2022, 06:31:24 AM
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/28/zach-wilson-i-appreciate-jets-confidence-i-need-to-do-my-part/
Now:
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1603123125633384449?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
S O S
Post by: Badger on December 16, 2022, 09:46:11 AM
Post by: delavan on December 16, 2022, 09:54:51 AM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10058869-jets-zach-wilson-to-start-vs-lions-mike-white-not-cleared-by-doctors
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 16, 2022, 10:01:01 AM
FAN MELTDOWN SZN
I'm thrilled
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 10:09:22 AM
But i've been invested in Zach since we drafted him. I'm glad he's getting another chance. I hope everything clicks for him this Sunday. Let's see if Lafleur/Calabrese actually coached him up these past 3 weeks.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 16, 2022, 10:09:46 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 16, 2022, 10:13:08 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 10:17:20 AM
Oh well, we'll see what happens.
you promised a win.
#NeverForget
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 10:21:33 AM
Quote
http://Antwan V. Staley
@antwanstaley
·
30m
Robert Saleh on Zach Wilson becoming the Jets starting QB again: "We did go 5-2 with him at quarterback, and part of that had to do with things that don't show up on the stat sheet."
Post by: Johnny English on December 16, 2022, 10:22:04 AM
I support both our QBs. Mike White is a baller.
But i've been invested in Zach since we drafted him. I'm glad he's getting another chance. I hope everything clicks for him this Sunday. Let's see if Lafleur/Calabrese actually coached him up these past 3 weeks.
So if Zach balls out then it's because he's a great talent you've always believed in, and if he stinks again it's because the coaches suck?
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 10:23:48 AM
So if Zach balls out then it's because he's a great talent you've always believed in, and if he stinks again it's because the coaches suck?
No...if he stinks again, maybe Zach doesn't have what it takes to play QB in this league. He's not gonna get another chance (with this franchise anyway). And if you don't think Lafleur had a hand in that, well, you haven't watched enough football.
But if Zach does ball out...then i'll let up on Lafleur a bit. But this wouldn't have anything to do with Lafleur's garbage playcalling...that's a much different, yet accurate, gripe.
Post by: Badger on December 16, 2022, 11:05:13 AM
this is for Derek Smalls' benefit#SalehLied
Post by: bojanglesman on December 16, 2022, 11:08:52 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
Only this team..... If Zach plays like crap, I guess we go back to White Thursday. If Zach plays well, I don't know. I'd think you would stick with him Thursday on a short week and let White rest. What a mess.
you promised a win.
#NeverForget
Post by: Jumbo on December 16, 2022, 11:27:47 AM
Only this team..... If Zach plays like crap, I guess we go back to White Thursday. If Zach plays well, I don't know. I'd think you would stick with him Thursday on a short week and let White rest. What a mess.
Saleh apparently said that White will start Thursday, that probably changes if Zach plays well though.
I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst.
Post by: Johnny English on December 16, 2022, 11:52:50 AM
Saleh apparently said that White will start Thursday, that probably changes if Zach plays well though.
I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst.
Something something two quarterbacks something something no quarterback.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 16, 2022, 11:57:01 AM
Only this team..... If Zach plays like crap, I guess we go back to White Thursday. If Zach plays well, I don't know. I'd think you would stick with him Thursday on a short week and let White rest. What a mess.
I will be pissed if I show up to TNF...freeze my derriere of just to watch Zach stink up the joint vs JAX.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 12:05:21 PM
I will be pissed if I show up to TNF...freeze my derriere of just to watch Zach stink up the joint vs JAX.
9/23 132 yards 0 TD 0 INT 4 near picks
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 16, 2022, 12:09:20 PM
9/23 132 yards 0 TD 0 INT 4 near picks
I will be booing proudly and loudly.
Post by: Johnny English on December 16, 2022, 12:18:18 PM
I will be booing proudly and loudly.
....as Lafleur calls a masterful ground and pound game and the Jets dominate the Jags in a 28-3 win.
Post by: Badger on December 16, 2022, 12:37:17 PM
I will be pissed if I show up to TNF...freeze my derriere of just to watch Zach stink up the joint vs JAX.I've frozen for worse.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 16, 2022, 12:39:20 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 12:59:36 PM
I will be pissed if I show up to TNF...freeze my derriere of just to watch Zach stink up the joint vs JAX.
We're not losing...Bo guaranteed a win.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 16, 2022, 01:08:28 PM
We're not losing...Bo guaranteed a win.I stand by it. Gonna have to threaten Zach from the stands.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 01:10:03 PM
I stand by it. Gonna have to threaten Zach from the stands.
You have moxie, kid...i'll give you that.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 01:11:36 PM
I stand by it. Gonna have to threaten Zach from the stands.
Hey Zach.... How about....You throw it to the open guy... OK?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 16, 2022, 01:15:59 PM
Hey Zach.... How about....You throw it to the open guy... OK?
This would illicit Quigley-esque hate from the stands by yours truly.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 01:50:01 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 16, 2022, 01:51:53 PM
I hope Zach fucked the excrement out of Connie Carberg this week. We need him to be elite on Sunday.Maybe the way is to offer it up as a post-game reward.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 01:52:58 PM
Maybe the way is to offer it up as a post-game reward.
Connie's puss for Zach is like NoXplode for the rest of us.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 16, 2022, 01:53:31 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 16, 2022, 01:55:11 PM
Connie's puss for Zach is like NoXplode for the rest of us.(https://www.surge.com/content/dam/nagbrands/us/surge/en/Surge_PageProperties.jpg)
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 03:28:50 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 03:30:56 PM
I'm not seeing it here but elsewhere, anyone that is actively rooting against Wilson is fuckin moron. I have no faith that he's suddenly "fixed" but I fuckin hope he is. He's still a baby in this league and has potential to be great. However, I'm not confident we have the coaching nor has enough time passed to achieve anything significant.100% bang on
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 03:39:39 PM
I'm not seeing it here but elsewhere, anyone that is actively rooting against Wilson is fuckin moron. I have no faith that he's suddenly "fixed" but I fuckin hope he is. He's still a baby in this league and has potential to be great. However, I'm not confident we have the coaching nor has enough time passed to achieve anything significant.Who here is actively rooting against Zach? He is a young QB with a great arm and good athleticism. I hope he is great. I hope we can say this was a wakeup call he needed, and combine that with easier defenses, he can build some confidence and restore some faith and lead a deep playoff run. I hope I look like an idiot for saying Lawrence is better. Things can change a lot in a few weeks.
Saying he sucks or is a bad QB is based on what he has done in the NFL. I'm not rooting against him. Just stating facts. Would love for him to play well and change those facts.
If this team had Lawrence, who is looking a lot better recently and seems to be developing, we would be a lot more confident about this season's outlook and be one of the Super Bowl favorites next season. I wish Wilson were developing at that pace.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 03:49:59 PM
Who here is actively rooting against Zach? He is a young QB with a great arm and good athleticism. I hope he is great. I hope we can say this was a wakeup call he needed, and combine that with easier defenses, he can build some confidence and restore some faith and lead a deep playoff run. I hope I look like an idiot for saying Lawrence is better. Things can change a lot in a few weeks.
Saying he sucks or is a bad QB is based on what he has done in the NFL. I'm not rooting against him. Just stating facts. Would love for him to play well and change those facts.
If this team had Lawrence, who is looking a lot better recently and seems to be developing, we would be a lot more confident about this season's outlook and be one of the Super Bowl favorites next season. I wish Wilson were developing at that pace.
I specifically said no one here has been rooting against him. I've seen it on Twitter and Reddit mostly. Other excrement holes outside of our home.
I agree, he deserves all the criticism in the world and I just don't see how he can turn it around in two weeks but here is hoping. We need to lean on the running game to open up the passing game. Good luck, Zach. My son is 6, I hope he's celebrating Wilson led Jet's 5th ring on his 16th birthday.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 03:52:16 PM
I specifically said no one here has been rooting against him. I've seen it on Twitter and Reddit mostly. Other excrement holes outside of our home.The thing is the Lions secondary is abysmal. Best way to beat them is through the air. OL needs to protect better and Zach needs to get the ball out.
I agree, he deserves all the criticism in the world and I just don't see how he can turn it around in two weeks but here is hoping. We need to lean on the running game to open up the passing game. Good luck, Zach. My son is 6, I hope he's celebrating Wilson led Jet's 5th ring on his 16th birthday.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 03:54:04 PM
The thing is the Lions secondary is abysmal. Best way to beat them is through the air. OL needs to protect better and Zach needs to get the ball out.
Zach with his 55% completion percentage airing it out scares the excrement out of me. I'm in the "don't lose this for us" rather than the "go win this one for us" camp.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 03:54:36 PM
Who here is actively rooting against Zach? He is a young QB with a great arm and good athleticism. I hope he is great. I hope we can say this was a wakeup call he needed, and combine that with easier defenses, he can build some confidence and restore some faith and lead a deep playoff run. I hope I look like an idiot for saying Lawrence is better. Things can change a lot in a few weeks.Wilson can develop...if you get rid of Lafleur
Saying he sucks or is a bad QB is based on what he has done in the NFL. I'm not rooting against him. Just stating facts. Would love for him to play well and change those facts.
If this team had Lawrence, who is looking a lot better recently and seems to be developing, we would be a lot more confident about this season's outlook and be one of the Super Bowl favorites next season. I wish Wilson were developing at that pace.
Post by: Coach K on December 16, 2022, 04:00:08 PM
Redemption time.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 04:07:10 PM
Wilson can develop...if you get rid of Lafleur
There's no way you can seriously think this
If you think MLF is a pile of excrement I'll disagree with that, but I can understand.
But thinking that the odds are anything short of praying for a miracle of Zach turning it around? Is absolute freaking madness
Post by: Johnny English on December 16, 2022, 04:11:53 PM
There's no way you can seriously think this
If you think MLF is a pile of excrement I'll disagree with that, but I can understand.
But thinking that the odds are anything short of praying for a miracle of Zach turning it around? Is absolute freaking madness
Just as I thought and still think that Darnold can be an excellent NFL QB, so I think the same is true of Zach.
I don't know why the position coach gets to skate on this though. The OC isn't working with Wilson every day on all the things that a young starting QB needs to learn, from technique to vision to leadership and probably a hundred things besides. I had (and have) the same complaint about our receivers, where we have young guys like Moore and Mims who are clearly being let down by a position coach who played over a decade in the NFL but is apparently unable to educate them as to basic levels of professional behaviour.
It's obvious that there are issues with the playcalling and the lack of a senior voice on the offensive staff to help MLF with that is not helping, but I don't think that replacing him makes very much difference at all to Wilson or anyone else if we don't fix other problems that clearly exist.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:12:43 PM
There's no way you can seriously think this
If you think MLF is a pile of excrement I'll disagree with that, but I can understand.
But thinking that the odds are anything short of praying for a miracle of Zach turning it around? Is absolute freaking madness
as usual...youre wrong
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 04:24:00 PM
Just as I thought and still think that Darnold can be an excellent NFL QB, so I think the same is true of Zach.
I don't know why the position coach gets to skate on this though. The OC isn't working with Wilson every day on all the things that a young starting QB needs to learn, from technique to vision to leadership and probably a hundred things besides. I had (and have) the same complaint about our receivers, where we have young guys like Moore and Mims who are clearly being let down by a position coach who played over a decade in the NFL but is apparently unable to educate them as to basic levels of professional behaviour.
It's obvious that there are issues with the playcalling and the lack of a senior voice on the offensive staff to help MLF with that is not helping, but I don't think that replacing him makes very much difference at all to Wilson or anyone else if we don't fix other problems that clearly exist.
I was 100% on the keep Darnold bandwagon and still think the odds of him being serviceable are way better than Wilson (and I say serviceable because there's no way Darnold will be excellent)
But the insanity of people thinking coaches are freaking Jesus is ridiculous.
Look at QBs drafted in the first round the last 10 years. How many of them are able to go from horrendous to excellent? Does it happen sure, but very freaking rarely.
If coaches had that much power about turning it around OCs/QB coaches would be way more important than 1st round draft picks and you'd see OCs/QB coaches getting contracts like elite players (this isn't to say they're not important, but people on here think OC is the difference between Zach Wilson being a 1st ballot HOF inductee, vs him struggling to be a top 32 QB)
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 16, 2022, 04:24:46 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 04:24:56 PM
as usual...youre wrong
See a therapist for your delusions
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
I was 100% on the keep Darnold bandwagon and still think the odds of him being serviceable are way better than Wilson (and I say serviceable because there's no way Darnold will be excellent)
But the insanity of people thinking coaches are freaking Jesus is ridiculous.
Look at QBs drafted in the first round the last 10 years. How many of them are able to go from horrendous to excellent? Does it happen sure, but very freaking rarely.
If coaches had that much power about turning it around OCs/QB coaches would be way more important than 1st round draft picks and you'd see OCs/QB coaches getting contracts like elite players (this isn't to say they're not important, but people on here think OC is the difference between Zach Wilson being a 1st ballot HOF inductee, vs him struggling to be a top 32 QB)
there's so much hyperbole in this post...i'm not sure what you think is real and what isn't anymore.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:27:28 PM
See a therapist for your delusions
lmao
go stare at the salary cap some more, doofus.
Post by: Johnny English on December 16, 2022, 04:29:24 PM
I was 100% on the keep Darnold bandwagon and still think the odds of him being serviceable are way better than Wilson (and I say serviceable because there's no way Darnold will be excellent)
But the insanity of people thinking coaches are freaking Jesus is ridiculous.
Look at QBs drafted in the first round the last 10 years. How many of them are able to go from horrendous to excellent? Does it happen sure, but very freaking rarely.
If coaches had that much power about turning it around OCs/QB coaches would be way more important than 1st round draft picks and you'd see OCs/QB coaches getting contracts like elite players (this isn't to say they're not important, but people on here think OC is the difference between Zach Wilson being a 1st ballot HOF inductee, vs him struggling to be a top 32 QB)
I didn't say coaches are Jesus, but the leap to any top level sport is a huge one and probably none bigger than going from a school like BYU to the New York Jets, and no position bigger than quarterback where scheme is everything, and coaching is key to making that transition. I imagine very few coaches can turn a no hoper into a star, but lots can turn a potential star into a bust. Coaching and management isn't about giving people tools they don't have, it's about giving them the guidance and support to best use the ones they do.
I don't think our offensive coaches are doing that.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 04:31:33 PM
Pairing Zach with a first-time OC and QB coach under a defensive-minded head coach was always a curious decision. Greg Knapp was supposed to be the experienced voice in the room but we all know what happened there...Most of the time, you're either hiring a coach without a ton of experience or one who got fired elsewhere.
When the retread fails, we want a young rising star OC.
When the inexperienced guy fails, we ask for the experienced guy.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 04:33:01 PM
You can scheme to your strengths and to cover your weaknesses.
You need a coach that does this around the talent on your team rather than force the talent into your scheme.
You adjust in game based on what the other team is giving you.
You adjust in season based on all the variables (schedule, injuries, emerging talent, diminishing talent, etc.)
What have I missed? can we sticky this post?
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 04:34:06 PM
I didn't say coaches are Jesus, but the leap to any top level sport is a huge one and probably none bigger than going from a school like BYU to the New York Jets, and no position bigger than quarterback where scheme is everything, and coaching is key to making that transition. I imagine very few coaches can turn a no hoper into a star, but lots can turn a potential star into a bust. Coaching and management aren't about giving people tools they don't have, it's about giving them the guidance and support to best use the ones they do.
I don't think our offensive coaches are doing that.
Oh I don't think you fall into that camp
I think you have one of the more realistic sensible opinions on here when it comes to our QB situation.
I think there's just a segment on here who have insane delusions about what the OC can do, and it's so ingrained into the fan base to chase every jets OC with pitchforks.
I mean realistically the last 15 years how many OCs have there been that people didn't think were the worst OC ever and the source of literally all our problems?
Coaches are important, but they're not freaking god. And you're gonna need god to turn Zach Wilson into a guy deserving a second contract
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:34:15 PM
Most of the time, you're either hiring a coach without a ton of experience or one who got fired elsewhere.
When the retread fails, we want a young rising star OC.
When the inexperienced guy fails, we ask for the experienced guy.
In our case, i don't think alot of good/experienced OCs were lining up to help Saleh clean up Gase's offensive mess.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 04:37:38 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 04:38:50 PM
In our case, i don't think alot of good/experienced OCs were lining up to help Saleh clean up Gase's offensive mess.
Wrong again
Does anyone on here think that MLF wasn't Salehs top choice or close to it?
Pretty sure the reason we ended up with Gase was because we handcuffed other candidates (ie Rhule) by forcing them to take coordinators. And IIRC didn't we force Greg Williams on Gase?
Almost everyone is either happy or relatively happy with Saleh. MLF is his dude, people need to stop overreacting
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 04:40:37 PM
Oh I don't think you fall into that camp
I think you have one of the more realistic sensible opinions on here when it comes to our QB situation.
I think there's just a segment on here who have insane delusions about what the OC can do, and it's so ingrained into the fan base to chase every jets OC with pitchforks.
I mean realistically the last 15 years how many OCs have there been that people didn't think were the worst OC ever and the source of literally all our problems?
Jet's offensive rankings the last 15 years:
2021: 28th
2020: 32nd
2019: 31st
2018: 23rd
2017: 24th
2016: 30th
2015: 11th (!!)
2014: 28th
2013: 29th
2012: 28th
2011: 13th
2010: 13th
2009: 17th
2008: 9th (if Favre didn't get injured...)
2007: 25th
2006: 18th
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:41:36 PM
Oh I don't think you fall into that camp
I think you have one of the more realistic sensible opinions on here when it comes to our QB situation.
I think there's just a segment on here who have insane delusions about what the OC can do, and it's so ingrained into the fan base to chase every jets OC with pitchforks.
I mean realistically the last 15 years how many OCs have there been that people didn't think were the worst OC ever and the source of literally all our problems?
Coaches are important, but they're not freaking god. And you're gonna need god to turn Zach Wilson into a guy deserving a second contract
I didn't think you were this stupid...but here we are, i guess.
in 3 years at BYU, Zach threw for 6,636 yards 49 TDs and 13 INTs. He didn't just FORGET how to play football when he came to the NFL. He had to learn a new system from a new OC...and obviously, players play faster in the NFL. He's only had 17 starts. Zach may not be up to the task, but there's a very good argument for his OC/scheme not being a match either. This is why i keep reiterating that i'm not ready to give up on Zach until i see him in a different offensive system. And considering Lafleur is brand new to the OC game, this isn't as far-fetched as you might think it is.
So yeah, coaching and scheme matter. Look at what Pete Carroll did with Geno Smith.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:42:27 PM
Wrong again
Does anyone on here think that MLF wasn't Salehs top choice or close to it?
Pretty sure the reason we ended up with Gase was because we handcuffed other candidates (ie Rhule) by forcing them to take coordinators. And IIRC didn't we force Greg Williams on Gase?
Almost everyone is either happy or relatively happy with Saleh. MLF is his dude, people need to stop overreacting
lol Rex fixed our defense too...but his OC choices were awful.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 04:42:32 PM
Jet's offensive rankings the last 15 years:Yep, and our QBs were largely terrible in all of those seasons except 2008 (good QB) and 2015 (good QB). The "bad QB" vs "bad OC" argument has gone on forever in Jets fandom. It's always some combination, usually leaning more towards bad QB.
2021: 28th
2020: 32nd
2019: 31st
2018: 23rd
2017: 24th
2016: 30th
2015: 11th (!!)
2014: 28th
2013: 29th
2012: 28th
2011: 13th
2010: 13th
2009: 17th
2008: 9th (if Favre didn't get injured...)
2007: 25th
2006: 18th
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 16, 2022, 04:42:35 PM
Most of the time, you're either hiring a coach without a ton of experience or one who got fired elsewhere.
When the retread fails, we want a young rising star OC.
When the inexperienced guy fails, we ask for the experienced guy.
My argument has always been that you should have at least one guy with experience. You can have the young, up-and-coming OC but at least pair him with an experienced, proven QB coach.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 04:43:35 PM
Jet's offensive rankings the last 15 years:
2021: 28th
2020: 32nd
2019: 31st
2018: 23rd
2017: 24th
2016: 30th
2015: 11th (!!)
2014: 28th
2013: 29th
2012: 28th
2011: 13th
2010: 13th
2009: 17th
2008: 9th (if Favre didn't get injured...)
2007: 25th
2006: 18th
Which of these were people happy with?
Dowell Loggains
Loggains was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2019-2020 seasons, a total of two years.
Jeremy Bates
Bates was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2018 season. Bates' record as the team's offensive coordinator was 4-12-0, making him the second-least successful offensive coordinator in New York Jets history.
John Morton
Morton was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2017 season.
Chan Gailey
Gailey was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2015-2016 seasons, a total of two years.
Marty Mornhinweg
Mornhinweg was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2013-2014 seasons, a total of two years.
Tony Sparano
Sparano was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2012 season.
Brian Schottenheimer
Schottenheimer was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2006-2011 seasons, a total of six years. The team made it to the playoffs three times (2006, 2009-2010) and had a 4-3 record under Coach Schottenheimer in playoff games.
Mike Heimerdinger
Heimerdinger was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2005 season. Heimerdinger's record as the team's offensive coordinator was 4-12-0, making him the second-least successful offensive coordinator in New York Jets history.
Paul Hackett
Hackett was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2001-2004 seasons, a total of four years. The team made it to the playoffs three times (2001-2002, 2004) and had a 2-3 record under Coach Hackett in playoff games
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:44:31 PM
My argument has always been that you should have at least one guy with experience. You can have the young, up-and-coming OC but at least pair him with an experienced, proven QB coach.
AR gets it.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 04:45:59 PM
Yep, and our QBs were largely terrible in all of those seasons except 2008 (good QB) and 2015 (good QB). The "bad QB" vs "bad OC" argument has gone on forever in Jets fandom. It's always some combination, usually leaning more towards bad QB.And this is where the San Fran argument comes in. If you have good coaching and QB friendly game plans, you can cover some of it up.
To DCM’s, it isn’t a magic wand but we’re not doing ourselves any favors.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 04:46:08 PM
I didn't think you were this stupid...but here we are, i guess.Who cares what numbers he put up in college?
in 3 years at BYU, Zach threw for 6,636 yards 49 TDs and 13 INTs. He didn't just FORGET how to play football when he came to the NFL. He had to learn a new system from a new OC...and obviously, players play faster in the NFL. He's only had 17 starts. Zach may not be up to the task, but there's a very good argument for his OC/scheme not being a match either. This is why i keep reiterating that i'm not ready to give up on Zach until i see him in a different offensive system. And considering Lafleur is brand new to the OC game, this isn't as far-fetched as you might think it is.
So yeah, coaching and scheme matter. Look at what Pete Carroll did with Geno Smith.
Every QB who gets drafted puts up good college numbers (besides Hackenberg). Most of them suck in the NFL.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 04:46:44 PM
I didn't think you were this stupid...but here we are, i guess.
in 3 years at BYU, Zach threw for 6,636 yards 49 TDs and 13 INTs. He didn't just FORGET how to play football when he came to the NFL. He had to learn a new system from a new OC...and obviously, players play faster in the NFL. He's only had 17 starts. Zach may not be up to the task, but there's a very good argument for his OC/scheme not being a match either. This is why i keep reiterating that i'm not ready to give up on Zach until i see him in a different offensive system. And considering Lafleur is brand new to the OC game, this isn't as far-fetched as you might think it is.
So yeah, coaching and scheme matter. Look at what Pete Carroll did with Geno Smith.
Pete Caroll didn't fix Geno overnight
This is Genos 9th year in the NFL.
This might be a crazy thought, but if you do something for 9 years odds are you'll have improved at it
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:47:45 PM
Who cares what numbers he put up in college?
Every QB who gets drafted puts up good college numbers (besides Hackenberg). Most of them suck in the NFL.
i care...because i keep hearing how Zach doesn't know how to play the position. He clearly does.
I haven't seen anything from Lafleur that he knows how to call a good game against a good defense...or a develop a QB.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 04:48:01 PM
Which of these were people happy with?You’re….. you’re making my point for me?
Dowell Loggains
Loggains was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2019-2020 seasons, a total of two years.
Jeremy Bates
Bates was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2018 season. Bates' record as the team's offensive coordinator was 4-12-0, making him the second-least successful offensive coordinator in New York Jets history.
John Morton
Morton was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2017 season.
Chan Gailey
Gailey was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2015-2016 seasons, a total of two years.
Marty Mornhinweg
Mornhinweg was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2013-2014 seasons, a total of two years.
Tony Sparano
Sparano was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2012 season.
Brian Schottenheimer
Schottenheimer was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2006-2011 seasons, a total of six years. The team made it to the playoffs three times (2006, 2009-2010) and had a 4-3 record under Coach Schottenheimer in playoff games.
Mike Heimerdinger
Heimerdinger was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2005 season. Heimerdinger's record as the team's offensive coordinator was 4-12-0, making him the second-least successful offensive coordinator in New York Jets history.
Paul Hackett
Hackett was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2001-2004 seasons, a total of four years. The team made it to the playoffs three times (2001-2002, 2004) and had a 2-3 record under Coach Hackett in playoff games
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 04:48:24 PM
i care...because i keep hearing how Zach doesn't know how to play the position. He clearly does.
I haven't seen anything from Lafleur that he knows how to call a good game against a good defense...or a develop a QB.
Who was the most successful college QB of all time?
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:48:36 PM
You’re….. you’re making my point for me?
1) i was wonder what the freak he was trying to say there lol
2) you broke your 5 year streak.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:49:13 PM
Who was the most successful college QB of all time?
your mom?
pick something else that has nothing to do with the convo or my point.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 04:50:29 PM
your mom?
pick something else that has nothing to do with the convo.
You're using college stats to justify that Zach Wilson is somehow a good QB because of that and he's held back by college coaching.
Yet the most successful college QB of all time was terrible in the NFL
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:52:17 PM
You're using college stats to justify that Zach Wilson is somehow a good QB because of that and he's held back by college coaching.
Yet the most successful college QB of all time was terrible in the NFL
I'm using college stats to prove that he knows how to play the position....please learn to read.
held back by college coaching... where the freak do your thoughts come from? Nobody said anything remotely to that effect.
Again...college success wasn't my point in the slightest, but go off dumbass.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 04:55:21 PM
Pete Caroll didn't fix Geno overnight
This is Genos 9th year in the NFL.
This might be a crazy thought, but if you do something for 9 years odds are you'll have improved at it
this is Geno's first year in Carroll's system as the starter.
Again, dcm...read this carefully....coaching matters, and different offensive schemes do exist.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 05:00:02 PM
1) i was wonder what the freak he was trying to say there lolLike our offense, I’m terribly inconsistent.
2) you broke your 5 year streak.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 05:00:17 PM
You’re….. you’re making my point for me?
My point is can you honestly say MLF is worse than the majority of the OCs we've had the last 20 years?
All things considering he's a fairly solid and promising option. And I wager if you go look at the majority of teams out there OCs the last 20 years many of them will probably be pretty freaking horrible too. You can't expect your typical OC to look like Don freaking Shula
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 05:01:24 PM
this is Geno's first year in Carroll's system as the starter.
Again, dcm...read this carefully....coaching matters, and different offensive schemes do exist.
Yes it is
And you're giving Pete Caroll credit for being a miracle worker for Geno
I'm suggesting that the biggest thing working in Genos favor is he's had almost a decade of nfl experience and practice
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 05:04:34 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:07:01 PM
Yes it is
And you're giving Pete Caroll credit for being a miracle worker for Geno
I'm suggesting that the biggest thing working in Genos favor is he's had almost a decade of nfl experience and practice
oh well..there you go. Zach has had 17 games...maybe you should give him a little more time then.
i'm glad your porch light finally came on.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 05:09:35 PM
oh well..there you go. Zach has had 17 games...maybe you should give him a little more time then.
i'm glad your porch light finally came on.
So you agree with me that we should've kept Darnold then
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 05:11:08 PM
My point is can you honestly say MLF is worse than the majority of the OCs we've had the last 20 years?Your point is we’ve had shitty OCs so our current one is above criticism? That’s a fuckin terrible point.
All things considering he's a fairly solid and promising option. And I wager if you go look at the majority of teams out there OCs the last 20 years many of them will probably be pretty freaking horrible too. You can't expect your typical OC to look like Don freaking Shula
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:12:24 PM
So you agree with me that we should've kept Darnold then
lol no
agreeing with you on anything is hazardous to one's mental health.
Plus...Darnold had 3 years here with a shitty OC too. He paid his dues...why would we continue to make him suffer?
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:13:59 PM
Your point is we’ve had shitty OCs so our current one is above criticism? That’s a fuckin terrible point.
As usual...dcm is all over the place. He probably needs lithium pills.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 05:23:52 PM
Your point is we’ve had shitty OCs so our current one is above criticism? That’s a fuckin terrible point.
No my point is how can someone sensibly think we could easily go find a much better one.
Instead of having a decent one, odds are Loggains 2.0
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 05:26:25 PM
lol no
agreeing with you on anything is hazardous to one's mental health.
Plus...Darnold had 3 years here with a shitty OC too. He paid his dues...why would we continue to make him suffer?
So Geno Smith getting 9 years is proof that scheme fixes all
But Darnold getting 3 years of arguably much worse coaching than Wilson is more than enoguh time.
You're pulling excrement out your derriere at this point
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:26:57 PM
No my point is how can someone sensibly think we could easily go find a much better one.
this is incredible.
It's impossible to upgrade the OC position... what are you on?
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 05:29:06 PM
this is incredible.
It's impossible to upgrade the OC position... what are you on?
No it's really easy to upgrade your OC position. That's why the Jets have that remarkable history of some of the greatest OCs ever the last 20 years
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:30:49 PM
So Geno Smith getting 9 years is proof that scheme fixes all
But Darnold getting 3 years of arguably much worse coaching than Wilson is more than enoguh time.
You're pulling excrement out your derriere at this point
i'm convinced you're illiterate.
Geno gained experience from each of his stops, but the light came on for him in Seattle.
Just like the light went out of DangeRUSS in Denver.
Schemes matter. Playcalling matters. Coaching matters.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 05:31:40 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/kB6Y0b0/image.png)
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:32:12 PM
No it's really easy to upgrade your OC position. That's why the Jets have that remarkable history of some of the greatest OCs ever the last 20 years
We've failed at it for years, yes. I've already said that in an earlier post....great job catching up.
The key here, is to find one that fits well with our QB and offensive personnel.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 05:32:16 PM
No my point is how can someone sensibly think we could easily go find a much better one.Jets are currently ranked 19th. I guess it’s in the ballpark of decent.
Instead of having a decent one, odds are Loggains 2.0
However, i will always argue if the answer isn’t in house, you keep trying. Just like you keep drafting QBs until you hit on one.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 05:32:17 PM
i'm convinced you're illiterate.
Geno gained experience from each of his stops, but the light came on for him in Seattle.
Just like the light went out of DangeRUSS in Denver.
Schemes matter. Playcalling matters. Coaching matters.
Nobody is saying it doesn't
But Geno turning it on in year 9 is not evidence of a grbjnf when it comes to ZW
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 05:33:42 PM
Jets are currently ranked 19th. I guess it’s in the ballpark of decent.
However, i will always argue if the answer isn’t in house, you keep trying. Just like you keep drafting QBs until you hit on one.
Yes jets are 19th despite having started 3 different QB's this year, for a team that was what like 32nd two years prior?
Nobody is saying MLF is perfect.
I'm saying this is an obvious step in a right direction.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:34:04 PM
The last few pages of this thread is the JO equivalent of this game.
(https://i.ibb.co/kB6Y0b0/image.png)
you posting about "playcalling being overrated" is an equivalent to that game also.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:35:49 PM
Nobody is saying it doesn't
But Geno turning it on in year 9 is not evidence of a grbjnf when it comes to ZW
what?
i'm not explaining it again. Have a nice weekend.
Post by: Johnny English on December 16, 2022, 05:36:21 PM
let's simplify this for some people:
You can scheme to your strengths and to cover your weaknesses.
You need a coach that does this around the talent on your team rather than force the talent into your scheme.
Going to have to stop you right here brother. This talent was specifically picked for and by this coaching staff. They didn't want Sam Darnold or Trey Lance or Mac Jones or Andy Dalton or Mitch Trubisky or Carson Wentz or Jared Goff, all of whom went to new teams in that spring, they wanted Zach Wilson. If our coaching staff are having to coach round the talent at QB then something went wrong with the talent evaluation.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 16, 2022, 05:36:52 PM
The last few pages of this thread is the JO equivalent of this game.You know what that is? A freaking win. I'll take it.
(https://i.ibb.co/kB6Y0b0/image.png)
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 05:37:15 PM
You know what that is? A freaking win. I'll take it.6-2!
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 05:38:58 PM
Yes jets are 19th despite having started 3 different QB's this year, for a team that was what like 32nd two years prior?
Nobody is saying MLF is perfect.
I'm saying this is an obvious step in a right direction.
You're not allowed to have grey areas. If you don't think he sucks, you must think he is amazing.
The offense is clearly headed in the right direction. I think our offense is probably in the 16-24 range in terms of talent in the NFL. That's about where we are in terms of our rankings, and we've played a difficult defensive schedule.
The biggest knock on LaFleur is Zach's lack of development. But he also got productive QB play from Mike White, which tells me that the issue is likely more Zach than MLF.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:44:06 PM
You're not allowed to have grey areas. If you don't think he sucks, you must think he is amazing.
The offense is clearly headed in the right direction. I think our offense is probably in the 16-24 range in terms of talent in the NFL. That's about where we are in terms of our rankings, and we've played a difficult defensive schedule.
The biggest knock on LaFleur is Zach's lack of development. But he also got productive QB play from Mike White, which tells me that the issue is likely more Zach than MLF.
OR YOU COULD TAKE THE SMALLS APPROACH..."HE SUCKS AND HE'S AMAZING"
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:47:21 PM
Turn the lights out when you're done.
Go Jets.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 16, 2022, 05:49:31 PM
The last few pages of this thread is the JO equivalent of this game.
(https://i.ibb.co/kB6Y0b0/image.png)
Don’t you bring Greg freaking McElroy into this
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 05:51:33 PM
Don’t you bring Greg freaking McElroy into thisI mean, he was good in college, so of course he was going to be good in the pros. He didn't just forget how to play.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 05:52:00 PM
Going to have to stop you right here brother. This talent was specifically picked for and by this coaching staff. They didn't want Sam Darnold or Trey Lance or Mac Jones or Andy Dalton or Mitch Trubisky or Carson Wentz or Jared Goff, all of whom went to new teams in that spring, they wanted Zach Wilson. If our coaching staff are having to coach round the talent at QB then something went wrong with the talent evaluation.I just checked the depth chart and it turns out there are more players than the QB.
We bitch because we’re not getting the TEs involved or we run east to west when our RB is better north to south etc.
QB is the most important but he’s clearly not the most talented. Let’s scheme to highlight the talent and hide the weakness….
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 05:54:15 PM
I mean, he was good in college, so of course he was going to be good in the pros. He didn't just forget how to play.
McElroy had Sparano for an OC that game. Guess he was doing a fine job too.
Smalls and Sparano...livin in dat grey area.
Post by: Jumbo on December 16, 2022, 05:56:11 PM
Going to have to stop you right here brother. This talent was specifically picked for and by this coaching staff. They didn't want Sam Darnold or Trey Lance or Mac Jones or Andy Dalton or Mitch Trubisky or Carson Wentz or Jared Goff, all of whom went to new teams in that spring, they wanted Zach Wilson. If our coaching staff are having to coach round the talent at QB then something went wrong with the talent evaluation.
I think something definitely went wrong with the talent evaluation. We weren't the only ones who had Wilson ranked highly. It's hard to evaluate the behind-the-ears stuff that a QB in the NFL needs to succeed. We (most likely) messed up with Wilson. It happens.
Post by: Johnny English on December 16, 2022, 05:59:22 PM
I think something definitely went wrong with the talent evaluation. We weren't the only ones who had Wilson ranked highly. It's hard to evaluate the behind-the-ears stuff that a QB in the NFL needs to succeed. We (most likely) messed up with Wilson. It happens.
I don't think the talent evaluation was wrong, I just think Zach is quite immature. Ally that to a young and immensely inexperienced staff, and you've got a whole bunch of really talented guys all learning on the job together. Which is why I find this whole finger pointing exercise somewhat pointless because everyone is making screw ups, but thankfully there's enough talent there that despite the mistakes we're still playing relevant football in December.
There's a lot more to be positive about than not, IMO.
Post by: Jumbo on December 16, 2022, 06:00:12 PM
Yes jets are 19th despite having started 3 different QB's this year, for a team that was what like 32nd two years prior?
Nobody is saying MLF is perfect.
I'm saying this is an obvious step in a right direction.
Yep. No one is arguing MLF is lighting the world on fire, but considering all that's gone on this year on offense, we're on our way to our highest ranking as an offensive unit since 2015. The scheme and his playcalling have their warts but no one is arguing against him on the results themselves, just that they wish the way that we were getting there was better.
Post by: Jumbo on December 16, 2022, 06:02:08 PM
I don't think the talent evaluation was wrong, I just think Zach is quite immature. Ally that to a young and immensely inexperienced staff, and you've got a whole bunch of really talented guys all learning on the job together. Which is why I find this whole finger pointing exercise somewhat pointless because everyone is making screw ups, but thankfully there's enough talent there that despite the mistakes we're still playing relevant football in December.
There's a lot more to be positive about than not, IMO.
Agreed. We can only hope Zach learned something/matured from his benching and managed to fix whatever was leading to his yips. If not, re-evaluate the position in the offseason.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 06:03:39 PM
Agreed. We can only hope Zach learned something/matured from his benching and managed to fix whatever was leading to his yips. If not, re-evaluate the position in the offseason.
when did you become "reasonable" again?
i deleted the AIDs avatar.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 06:04:13 PM
I think something definitely went wrong with the talent evaluation. We weren't the only ones who had Wilson ranked highly. It's hard to evaluate the behind-the-ears stuff that a QB in the NFL needs to succeed. We (most likely) messed up with Wilson. It happens.Agreed. He was much more of a project than we gave him credit for.
I wouldn't be surprised if Zach needed time to mature, grind as a backup, learn defenses, fix his mechanics, and turn into a starter well down the line. The problem is we need him to do it now. I really see a ton of similarities between Zach and Geno. The press conference issue helped cement that comparison for me. Both showed talent when they were young, but neither was consistent and both were immature.
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 06:05:34 PM
Agreed. He was much more of a project than we gave him credit for.This is the way. Let White start next year and Wilson learn. I think most reasonable Jets fan is here. At least, I hope so.
I wouldn't be surprised if Zach needed time to mature, grind as a backup, learn defenses, fix his mechanics, and turn into a starter well down the line. The problem is we need him to do it now. I really see a ton of similarities between Zach and Geno. The press conference issue helped cement that comparison for me. Both showed talent when they were young, but neither was consistent and both were immature.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 06:07:22 PM
This is the way. Let White start next year and Wilson learn. I think most reasonable Jets fan is here. At least, I hope so.
it's funny how everyone here gave Darnold 3 seasons, and turned on him in his 4th year. This was the way.
Yet, Zach was only alotted 17 games. Let the kid figure his excrement out.
Smalls only gave Trey Lance 8 games before saying SF whiffed on him.
Post by: Jumbo on December 16, 2022, 06:08:36 PM
when did you become "reasonable" again?
i deleted the AIDs avatar.
I inhaled enough ketchup to come around the other side. #BringBackMLFAIDSAvatar
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 06:08:46 PM
This is the way. Let White start next year and Wilson learn. I think most reasonable Jets fan is here. At least, I hope so.I've said for a couple weeks now that the best thing for the Jets is White plays well and shows he can be our stopgap QB next year, while we keep Wilson. If Wilson develops and becomes the guy the staff wants him to be, best case scenario.
The White injury is an interesting wrinkle. It gives us more time to evaluate Zach. If he is terrible, maybe we make a clean break. If he's better, then the White/Wilson combo seems like the most likely.
White's injury is also interesting from a salary perspective. If White played well down the stretch and led us into the playoffs, he would be a lot more expensive. This could keep his price down a bit for next year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 06:09:36 PM
it's funny how everyone here gave Darnold 3 seasons, and turned on him in his 4th year. This was the way.I said "it hasn't worked out so far."
Yet, Zach was only alotted 17 games. Let the kid figure his excrement out.
Smalls only gave Trey Lance 8 games before saying SF whiffed on him.
Has Trey Lance worked out so far for the 49ers? I assume your answer is yes if you're making such a big deal out of it.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 06:09:40 PM
I inhaled enough ketchup to come around the other side. #BringBackMLFAIDSAvatar
that's a lot of ketchup, son.
Do you want that avatar back? it's up to you
Post by: Jumbo on December 16, 2022, 06:10:24 PM
Agreed. He was much more of a project than we gave him credit for.
I wouldn't be surprised if Zach needed time to mature, grind as a backup, learn defenses, fix his mechanics, and turn into a starter well down the line. The problem is we need him to do it now. I really see a ton of similarities between Zach and Geno. The press conference issue helped cement that comparison for me. Both showed talent when they were young, but neither was consistent and both were immature.
I think we probably also fucked up starting him from the beginning. Not that we had a better option to start at the time
Unfortunately, in the scenario where things are still screwed up but he's still revivable a la Geno, he won't be able to do it here. I like the staff we have but I think they botched this situation either way, even if Zach was never going to succeed here.
Post by: Jumbo on December 16, 2022, 06:10:52 PM
that's a lot of ketchup, son.
Do you want that avatar back? it's up to you
Yeah, why not
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 06:10:56 PM
I said "it hasn't worked out so far."
Has Trey Lance worked out so far for the 49ers? I assume your answer is yes if you're making such a big deal out of it.
missed/whiffed, same thing...whether it's "so far" or not, it's only been 8 games. Maybe dial back the expectations.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 06:13:24 PM
I think we probably also fucked up starting him from the beginning. Not that he had a better option.I'm not sure what the right solution is. Can we really bench the #2 pick in the draft coming out of college? He was a 3-year starter. Level of competition wasn't great, but he did start 3 years. You would think he'd be ready. But it's a whole organizational failure. Douglas misevaluted. The coaching staff hasn't developed him. Wilson hasn't held up his end. Luckily, we've done so many other positive things recently where our team is still clearly headed in the right direction.
Unfortunately, in the scenario where things are still screwed up but he's still revivable a la Geno, he won't be able to do it here. I like the staff we have but I think they botched this situation either way, even if Zach was never going to succeed here.
I do think he got a bit of a sense of entitlement with the way we treated him with such kid gloves. I hoped that by threatening his job after the NE game, he could maybe use that as a turning point. Taking his job away entirely absolutely should be a kick in the derriere for him.
Post by: Johnny English on December 16, 2022, 06:13:30 PM
it's funny how everyone here gave Darnold 3 seasons, and turned on him in his 4th year. This was the way.
Everyone?
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 06:14:04 PM
Everyone?
sorry papi.
Post by: Jumbo on December 16, 2022, 06:16:37 PM
I'm not sure what the right solution is. Can we really bench the #2 pick in the draft coming out of college? He was a 3-year starter. Level of competition wasn't great, but he did start 3 years. You would think he'd be ready. But it's a whole organizational failure. Douglas misevaluted. The coaching staff hasn't developed him. Wilson hasn't held up his end. Luckily, we've done so many other positive things recently where our team is still clearly headed in the right direction.
I do think he got a bit of a sense of entitlement with the way we treated him with such kid gloves. I hoped that by threatening his job after the NE game, he could maybe use that as a turning point. Taking his job away entirely absolutely should be a kick in the derriere for him.
The issue was that we didn't have that Tyrod-level guy that could start in the event he wasn't ready (or even if he was). That little bit of existential threat to his job was never there. With a guy like Zach that may have ingrained some lazier habits in him.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 06:18:17 PM
Yeah, why not
done
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 06:20:48 PM
The issue was that we didn't have that Tyrod-level guy that could start in the event he wasn't ready (or even if he was). That little bit of existential threat to his job was never there. With a guy like Zach that may have ingrained some lazier habits in him.I agree. I think that's probably the biggest mistake in terms of macro development.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 07:09:19 PM
Yep. No one is arguing MLF is lighting the world on fire, but considering all that's gone on this year on offense, we're on our way to our highest ranking as an offensive unit since 2015. The scheme and his playcalling have their warts but no one is arguing against him on the results themselves, just that they wish the way that we were getting there was better.
There's definite Zach delusionist who think Zach is the guy and MLF is the reason he's not a top 32 QB
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 07:19:55 PM
There's definite Zach delusionist who think Zach is the guy and MLF is the reason he's not a top 32 QBGet educated, dude.
Having a different opinion is acceptable...but making excrement up and talking out of your derriere isn't. So stop doing it.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 16, 2022, 07:35:25 PM
Post by: steves850 on December 16, 2022, 07:36:29 PM
Too lazy to read the numerous walls of text. Can someone give me a synopsis of WTF were debating here?Does size really matter or will a tuna can tearing the excrement out the walls suffice.
Post by: MBGreen on December 16, 2022, 07:38:16 PM
Too lazy to read the numerous walls of text. Can someone give me a synopsis of WTF were debating here?I made the mistake of replying to a dcm post....
Post by: bojanglesman on December 16, 2022, 07:42:06 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 16, 2022, 08:19:06 PM
Too lazy to read the numerous walls of text. Can someone give me a synopsis of WTF were debating here?
The only argument you'll see on this board the next year
Is Zach the problem or is MLF the problem.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 16, 2022, 10:38:20 PM
We have accelerated the process on Wilson compared to Darnold. But Wilson has a better team around him. It isn't a great supporting cast with the injuries and Moore's issues, but it is good enough where more is expected of him.
Post by: delavan on December 17, 2022, 08:07:42 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 17, 2022, 08:09:45 AM
Listen Zach you pretty boy bltch don't let the ol' avatar down... beat Det.
I'm not sure i can speak for everyone here...but for me...you ruined Cameron Diaz.
Post by: delavan on December 17, 2022, 08:12:49 AM
I'm not sure i can speak for everyone here...but for me...you ruined Cameron Diaz.No one's ruining anyone.
c'mon zach!!
Post by: Badger on December 17, 2022, 08:44:02 AM
Which of these were people happy with?Completely forgot Morton existed.
Dowell Loggains
Loggains was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2019-2020 seasons, a total of two years.
Jeremy Bates
Bates was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2018 season. Bates' record as the team's offensive coordinator was 4-12-0, making him the second-least successful offensive coordinator in New York Jets history.
John Morton
Morton was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2017 season.
Chan Gailey
Gailey was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2015-2016 seasons, a total of two years.
Marty Mornhinweg
Mornhinweg was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2013-2014 seasons, a total of two years.
Tony Sparano
Sparano was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2012 season.
Brian Schottenheimer
Schottenheimer was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2006-2011 seasons, a total of six years. The team made it to the playoffs three times (2006, 2009-2010) and had a 4-3 record under Coach Schottenheimer in playoff games.
Mike Heimerdinger
Heimerdinger was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2005 season. Heimerdinger's record as the team's offensive coordinator was 4-12-0, making him the second-least successful offensive coordinator in New York Jets history.
Paul Hackett
Hackett was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2001-2004 seasons, a total of four years. The team made it to the playoffs three times (2001-2002, 2004) and had a 2-3 record under Coach Hackett in playoff games
Post by: delavan on December 17, 2022, 09:09:19 AM
Quote
Tony Sparano
Sparano was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets in the 2012 season.
Field goal fist pumps = goose bumps
Post by: Badger on December 17, 2022, 09:31:38 AM
Field goal fist pumps = goose bumpsConvincing myself that the Sparano hire might actually be good might be my most pathetic moment as a Jets fan.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 17, 2022, 10:18:58 AM
Convincing myself that the Sparano hire might actually be good might be my most pathetic moment as a Jets fan.
Everyone loved the OLine coach's interviews.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 17, 2022, 10:31:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNUaiLrDtxw
this may be one of the worst throws i've ever seen in my entire life. i get it was only his second career game, but it was a sign of things to come.
i'm praying the guy proves me wrong but for the better part of 2 seasons all he's really done is show us questionable decision making + horrible mechanics + a propensity to wilt at the hint of any sort of pressure + a weak and entitled mentality. do i think a '3 week reset' will change any of that? no, but i hope i'm wrong.
whatever happens i hope 3 games from now if MW is healthy, he gets a shot again. he deserves it. there's no way he comes back for thursday night football with a rib fracture less than 2 weeks in.
Post by: delavan on December 17, 2022, 12:42:18 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Fracturedribsmarked.jpg/285px-Fracturedribsmarked.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Bird_in_cage.jpg/282px-Bird_in_cage.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Cameron_Diaz_WE_2012_Shankbone.JPG/192px-Cameron_Diaz_WE_2012_Shankbone.JPG)
Post by: dcm1602 on December 17, 2022, 08:44:16 PM
That seems like something immensely idiotic that I can't imagine anyone here being happy with
Signing him as a free agent? Sure
But trading for him, freak that
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 17, 2022, 10:52:58 PM
One of the beat writers for the Titans lists the Jets as a team that would probably "love to" trade for Ryan Tannehill.If they don't have faith in White and/or Wilson, all options are on the table. But is Tannehill better than White? Probably slightly better but he is 35 next week and has been getting beat up.
That seems like something immensely idiotic that I can't imagine anyone here being happy with
Signing him as a free agent? Sure
But trading for him, freak that
Post by: Badger on December 18, 2022, 03:43:22 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 18, 2022, 03:49:26 PM
If they don't have faith in White and/or Wilson, all options are on the table. But is Tannehill better than White? Probably slightly better but he is 35 next week and has been getting beat up.
And is now potentially coming off of a severe leg injury.
Post by: MBGreen on December 18, 2022, 06:09:25 PM
Quote
@NYJets_Media
·
10m
If you combine Mike White’s ability to read a defense. Process things quickly. Operate an offense within the pocket. Quick release. Leadership.
With Zach Wilson’s ability to make explosive off schedule plays. Mobility. Deep ball, Escapability.
You have yourself a great QB
Post by: Badger on December 18, 2022, 06:37:51 PM
𝙅𝙀𝙏𝙎 𝙈𝙀𝘿𝙄𝘼So basically just a smaller Josh Allen
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 10:08:22 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 10:13:37 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 10:14:42 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 19, 2022, 01:10:12 PM
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1604862912547340288
Is there a better throw in his career so far than this one? It’s a very difficult throw that I’d wager maybe 10 guys in the league would even consider throwing
Post by: insanity on December 19, 2022, 02:47:39 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 02:53:30 PM
It's pretty crazy that because he is so bad at the simpler throws no one was excited about this td passHe is so frustrating. At halftime, I was thinking he looked a lot better. Still wasn't as good as I would like him to be, but he was pretty good.
But he NEVER strings 4 quarters together. I don't think he's strung together a full quality four-quarter game in his career.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 03:00:17 PM
Post by: insanity on December 19, 2022, 03:07:31 PM
Quote
"For him to get himself on track I thought that was really good on him and a big step in the direction he'd been struggling in the past. And it shows some maturization and mental fortitude and finishing the game strong"Some pundits have mentioned that when zach hits a bump in the game he can't recover. This quote shows that there is actually some truth to this observation and something the coaching staff and zach have discussed internally.
Quote
Zach is going to be a very good quarterback...(2 minutes later) Matt Flynn is a really good qb
While we already know robert saleh is constantly optimistic to the media, this just shows how you can't trust any iota of what he says about player Evals in his presser
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 03:26:23 PM
The other funny thing about that play is that Wilson and Berrios are both open for big plays on what appear to be easier throws.
It's a designed play to throw back to the tight end. Chicago ran it earlier in the year to Cole Kmet and he was wide open.
You're not going anywhere but to the TE on the leak.
Post by: reuben on December 19, 2022, 03:57:26 PM
I thought this was pretty obvious, but there was a lot of talk about what an improvement yesterday's game was for him.
Post by: reuben on December 19, 2022, 04:03:16 PM
First read. Stares him down the whole way. Our best wide receiver. Wide open.
If you can't connect on this, you can't play.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 19, 2022, 04:04:59 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1604863208581435399 (https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1604863208581435399)
I thought this was pretty obvious, but there was a lot of talk about what an improvement yesterday's game was for him.
As soon as they asked him to stay in the pocket he fell apart.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 04:11:16 PM
The problem is his off-target percentage was still very bad. It has always been bad, and last week was also bad.
I don't like cherry-picking one bad throw necessarily and say "this is why he sucks." But the problem is you can create a 2:30 montage of bad throws off that game. Even if some of them are debatatable in terms of whether they are bad decisions or not, that's still a lot of misses for an NFL QB.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 19, 2022, 04:12:09 PM
As soon as they asked him to stay in the pocket he fell apart.
Why didn't MLF roll him out?
Post by: Jumbo on December 19, 2022, 04:22:07 PM
But he NEVER strings 4 quarters together. I don't think he's strung together a full quality four-quarter game in his career.
This is the main issue. He's entirely too inconsistent to be a franchise QB. Any other position you might be willing to deal with the inconsistencies but you just can't have that from your QB.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 19, 2022, 04:34:29 PM
This is the main issue. He's entirely too inconsistent to be a franchise QB. Any other position you might be willing to deal with the inconsistencies but you just can't have that from your QB.
He's pretty consistent
Just not in a good way
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 04:35:55 PM
He's pretty consistentNah, he has good moments. Even in the first Patriots disaster, he was very good for 1.5 quarters. Then he was very abysmal for the rest of the game.
Just not in a good way
Post by: insanity on December 19, 2022, 06:06:43 PM
Nah, he has good moments. Even in the first Patriots disaster, he was very good for 1.5 quarters. Then he was very abysmal for the rest of the game.Whoooooosh
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 07:15:34 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 07:27:09 AM
Rex dropping truth bombs
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2022, 07:47:37 AM
https://twitter.com/aaronbag1ey/status/1604936456874496000?s=20&t=Jqfh6vq9WBnQ5jCyWIHK6w
Rex dropping truth bombs
Rex Ryan, noted offensive guru and QB whisperer.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 07:56:29 AM
Rex Ryan, noted offensive guru and QB whisperer.
Let noted offensive guru Steve Young break it down for you then....
part 1
https://twitter.com/aaronbag1ey/status/1604994769813282816?s=20&t=Jqfh6vq9WBnQ5jCyWIHK6w
part 2
https://twitter.com/aaronbag1ey/status/1604994995936559104?s=20&t=Jqfh6vq9WBnQ5jCyWIHK6w
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2022, 08:00:12 AM
Let noted offensive guru Steve Young break it down for you then....
part 1
https://twitter.com/aaronbag1ey/status/1604994769813282816?s=20&t=Jqfh6vq9WBnQ5jCyWIHK6w
part 2
https://twitter.com/aaronbag1ey/status/1604994995936559104?s=20&t=Jqfh6vq9WBnQ5jCyWIHK6w
LOL, I wasn't even disagreeing, I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on Zach. I just thought it was funny that you were quoting Rex to make the case, a man who wouldn't know a good quarterback if one punched him in his ample gut.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 08:02:21 AM
LOL, I wasn't even disagreeing, I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on Zach. I just thought it was funny that you were quoting Rex to make the case, a man who wouldn't know a good quarterback if one punched him in his ample gut.
It was funny, i'm not disagreeing with you. Which is why i also posted Steve Young's comments....we all know Rex's opinion on offense isn't reliable, even though i agree with him in this case.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 08:14:34 AM
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
Anyone know if Steve Young has any reasons to be biased in favor of Zach Wilson?He's Zach's real dad
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 08:21:08 AM
Anyone know if Steve Young has any reasons to be biased in favor of Zach Wilson?I guessed you missed out on Steve ripping Zach for not taking ownership of the pats loss.
As usual...you're misinformed
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2022, 08:26:38 AM
LOL, I wasn't even disagreeing, I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on Zach. I just thought it was funny that you were quoting Rex to make the case, a man who wouldn't know a good quarterback if one punched him in his ample gut.
He could have been easily saying this about Sanchez's comeback games vs. Detroit or Houston.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 08:28:16 AM
I guessed you missed out on Steve ripping Zach for not taking ownership of the pats loss.
As usual...you're misinformed
So? Zach Wilson's maturity is much easier to fix than him being a bad QB
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 08:31:07 AM
So?You argue like my daughter does. No content, no rebuttal, just a one word bullshit because you don't like what someone else says.
You're absolutely funbags on a bull.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 08:31:44 AM
So? Zach Wilson's maturity is much easier to fix than him being a bad QB
He's not a bad QB...you're just angry because he's not Patrick Mahomes 10 mins into starting his career.
Zach needs to develop, and he needs a better coaching/support system. But the talent is there.
If you have a problem with that, go kick rocks. i don't care about your misinformed griping.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 08:41:00 AM
You argue like my daughter does. No content, no rebuttal, just a one word bullshit because you don't like what someone else says.
You're absolutely funbags on a bull.
I filled in my answer
I'm just pointing out the obvious BYU/Mormon connection between the two
The reality is there's thousands of freaking reporters and analyst out there. You will surely find some people who will say something good about him.
There's no question that Zach Wilson does some things good. And it's also common sense to realize it's much much much more likely that Zach will be a colossal bust than anything else.
He obviously can 100% turn it around, he's young and has some innate ability. But expectations for ZW should be rock bottom, and this team's focus needs to be on contingency plans, while figuring out the best options as to what to do with Zach
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 08:41:59 AM
He's not a bad QB...you're just angry because he's not Patrick Mahomes 10 mins into starting his career.
Zach needs to develop, and he needs a better coaching/support system. But the talent is there.
If you have a problem with that, go kick rocks. i don't care about your misinformed griping.
Oh he's not a bad QB?
So if we traded him how many 1st round picks would we get?
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 09:14:45 AM
Oh he's not a bad QB?
So if we traded him how many 1st round picks would we get?
You know what...for as much as i debate/argue with Derek Smalls, at least i respect his opinion.
I feel like i'm talking to a circus clown when i'm talking to you. Where do you come up with these asinine questions, comments and ideas?
We get it, you don't like Zach because he didn't sling 5000 yards and 35 TDs in his first season. But all that tells me is that you're an impatient rube.
If Zach still can't figure out the simple stuff after year 3, then turf him. But we're not there yet. He needs a more experienced coach to help him along.
*Disclaimer* please don't respond to this...there's only so much hurr durr i can put up with.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 09:26:56 AM
There's a controversy about a late round pick being Zachs replacement, because he's that bad.
This boards discussions have been on who is the QB of the future
Nobody thinks Zach is it
5 out of 8 games Zachs completion percentage has been 55% of lower
2 out of 8 games its been below 50%
4 out of 21 games has he completed at least 20 passes. He has never completed more than 23 passes in a game.
Youll make some stupid comment about statistics not mattering, well Zach doesn't pass the freaking eye test either.
Do I or does anyone else on here think we should cut Zach? Absolutely not. I'd wager most people on here would prefer to trade Zach if the price is right. No freaking clue what that right price is for most people, but I'd certainly be happy if we got at least a 2nd for Zach.
For anything less than 2 3rds I'd say hold onto Zach and see what he turns into. I don't think Zach is incapable of improving, I just think he's incapable of being good
I think this team would be much more enjoyable and capable of actually winning if we shipped off Zach, locked up White, and brought in any of the experienced vet options
How many freaking controversys has their been about Zach negatively impacting/frustrating/annoying our highly capable young receivers? I think Moore and G Wilson are far more important to the future of this team than Zach. And Zach is bad for both of them
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 20, 2022, 09:32:55 AM
I'm of the belief he could eventually be an NFL starter but not until several years down the road. I really could see the Geno Smith plan with Zach. Both Geno and Zach were mobile guys with very good arm talent who were super productive in college but were immature coming into the NFL. Both showed flashes of brilliance but far too many interceptions and accuracy issues. Geno clearly had a good work ethic to stick around, and by all accounts, so does Zach.
The problem for the Jets is that the rookie deals will only be here for so long. Next year is part of our Super Bowl window. You don't want to waste that on a developmental QB who may or may not ever develop. Going to be some tough decisions this offseason.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 09:33:07 AM
in b4 dcm conjures up some kind of bias to discredit the opinion.
https://twitter.com/BoyGreen25/status/1605024493839294466?s=20&t=Jqfh6vq9WBnQ5jCyWIHK6w
Jeremiah mentions that Zach could be a bad fit for what they want to do here....basically, the scheme and the OC. Eisen asks him "why did they draft him then?" Good question....but here we are.
I said since the beginning that i needed to see Zach in a different system before i closedthe book on him. Guess i'm not crazy afterall.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 09:38:27 AM
I get what Rex is saying about Zach. There were plenty of good moments in the Lions game. There are plenty of good moments in most Zach games. But the overall product from Zach has been bad for 2 years, without many signs of progress. The rest of the team being better adds more urgency to Zach's development. Maybe he gets there, maybe he doesn't. He never puts 4 quarters together.
I'm of the belief he could eventually be an NFL starter but not until several years down the road. I really could see the Geno Smith plan with Zach. Both Geno and Zach were mobile guys with very good arm talent who were super productive in college but were immature coming into the NFL. Both showed flashes of brilliance but far too many interceptions and accuracy issues. Geno clearly had a good work ethic to stick around, and by all accounts, so does Zach.
The problem for the Jets is that the rookie deals will only be here for so long. Next year is part of our Super Bowl window. You don't want to waste that on a developmental QB who may or may not ever develop. Going to be some tough decisions this offseason.
I'm giving Zach until the end of next season (same as i did with Darnold). I think the talent is there, he just needs the right support system to bring it out on a consistent basis. I know your opinion on Lafleur, i just don't think he's it. Daniel Jeremiah and Steve Young are seeing it too.
If Saleh is going to stick with Lafleur, we'll be moving on from Zach before his next contract.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 09:39:34 AM
Zach Wilson got benched in his second year, that's almost unheard of. And only got his job back because of an injury.
There's a controversy about a late round pick being Zachs replacement, because he's that bad.
This boards discussions have been on who is the QB of the future
Nobody thinks Zach is it
5 out of 8 games Zachs completion percentage has been 55% of lower
2 out of 8 games its been below 50%
4 out of 21 games has he completed at least 20 passes. He has never completed more than 23 passes in a game.
Youll make some stupid comment about statistics not mattering, well Zach doesn't pass the freaking eye test either.
Do I or does anyone else on here think we should cut Zach? Absolutely not. I'd wager most people on here would prefer to trade Zach if the price is right. No freaking clue what that right price is for most people, but I'd certainly be happy if we got at least a 2nd for Zach.
For anything less than 2 3rds I'd say hold onto Zach and see what he turns into. I don't think Zach is incapable of improving, I just think he's incapable of being good
I think this team would be much more enjoyable and capable of actually winning if we shipped off Zach, locked up White, and brought in any of the experienced vet options
How many freaking controversys has their been about Zach negatively impacting/frustrating/annoying our highly capable young receivers? I think Moore and G Wilson are far more important to the future of this team than Zach. And Zach is bad for both of them
I didn't bother reading any of this.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 09:41:34 AM
Quote
Brandon Tierney
@BrandonTierney
·
1m
Yes, Zach Wilson whiffs on the most basic components of the QB position...
But look at him every time he comes off the field. Ever see a coach near him? Instructing him? Lighting him up? Nope. Left on island.
Massive and inexcusable miss by the organization.
indeed
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 09:42:54 AM
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 09:44:14 AM
Zach Wilson got benched in his second year, that's almost unheard of. And only got his job back because of an injury.
I didn't bother reading anything else because of how inane, asinine, and retarded this statement is. not that long ago starting a rookie quarterback was unheard of. The sport, and especially, the position is constantly evolving. Wilson has been bad. He has also shown incredible ability in small glimpses.
The fact is we don't know what we have yet. Anyone who is making snap judgments is an armchair analyst nobody. Their opinion matters not.
However, based on statistics, the safe bet is he isn't good. Because most QBs drafted aren't franchise QBs. So you can squawk all you want about being so damn sure, and you may be right, simply because of the odds in your favor. But you don't know excrement. Your text blocks of uninformed verbal diarrhea only cements this.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 20, 2022, 09:45:55 AM
some interesting insight from Daniel Jeremiah.Seems to me like we made a bad evaluation then. DJ even said, sometimes you think a guy is one thing, then you bring him in, and he's another thing.
in b4 dcm conjures up some kind of bias to discredit the opinion.
https://twitter.com/BoyGreen25/status/1605024493839294466?s=20&t=Jqfh6vq9WBnQ5jCyWIHK6w
Jeremiah mentions that Zach could be a bad fit for what they want to do here....basically, the scheme and the OC. Eisen asks him "why did they draft him then?" Good question....but here we are.
I said since the beginning that i needed to see Zach in a different system before i closedthe book on him. Guess i'm not crazy afterall.
All we heard was that Wilson was a great fit for the Shanahan system. And there were strong rumors SF wanted him. The Jets had a new OC, HC and DC, but the systems were pretty established for each, so we should have been able to draft someone who fits the system.
The issue is the end of what DJ said. He's not an efficiently accurate quarterback.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 09:46:18 AM
I didn't bother reading any of this.
My posts aren't better because I wasn't coached up enough
Around year 9 you should expect my posts to really improve
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 09:48:33 AM
My posts aren't better because I wasn't coached up enough
Around year 9 you should expect my posts to really improve
You fuckin moron.
You registered on 10/04/13.....
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 09:48:48 AM
How many successful nfl QBs are there who can't complete freaking passes?
Go look at the completion percentage for every single QB in the NFL this season.
The vast majority are in the high 60s/70s
This season the only ones below 60% are like Sam Darnold, pj walker, baker Mayfield and Zach Wilson.
And Zach is way below all of them.
You can't be successful in the NFL if you can't sustain drives.
You know who else was a homerun hitter with a low average? Tim Tebow and he's playing baseball
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 09:49:10 AM
You fuckin moron.
You registered on 10/04/13.....
See bad coaching
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 09:50:34 AM
See bad coaching
You can't outcoach stupid.
Actually Geno Smith has been good this year.
You may be able to outcoach stupid.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 09:51:00 AM
Seems to me like we made a bad evaluation then. DJ even said, sometimes you think a guy is one thing, then you bring him in, and he's another thing.
yeah, i picked up on this too. It's certainly a gaffe on JD. But, how do you get past it? IMO, we bring in a coach and system that actually fits what Zach brings to the table.
Quote
All we heard was that Wilson was a great fit for the Shanahan system. And there were strong rumors SF wanted him. The Jets had a new OC, HC and DC, but the systems were pretty established for each, so we should have been able to draft someone who fits the system.
The issue is the end of what DJ said. He's not an efficiently accurate quarterback.
I think that's DJ's evaluation of what Zach is today (currently)...which is correct. But without seeing him in a different offense, do we really know what we have in him? You bring in a different offensive coaching staff and system...then we'll get confirmation.
i don't hate Lafleur, DS, but i do hate the fact he's ruining our young QB the longer he sticks around.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 09:54:12 AM
Also the homerun analogy is nonsense
How many successful nfl QBs are there who can't complete freaking passes?
Go look at the completion percentage for every single QB in the NFL this season.
The vast majority are in the high 60s/70s
This season the only ones below 60% are like Sam Darnold, pj walker, baker Mayfield and Zach Wilson.
And Zach is way below all of them.
You can't be successful in the NFL if you can't sustain drives.
You know who else was a homerun hitter with a low average? Tim Tebow and he's playing baseball
do everyone a favour and vacate this thread.
i didn't even read your post to know that it smells like dogshit.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 09:56:45 AM
What kind of offense do you think ZW would have more success in? Where you can be successful with a low completion percentage
And without depending on him having a HOF coach
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 20, 2022, 10:06:41 AM
It's easy to say "Try Zach with a new OC, and maybe he's good." But is Zach good enough to deserve overhauling the whole offensive staff for him? Probably not, unless you think the OC is terrible. I think he's OK, not great, not awful.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 10:14:41 AM
When I think HR hitter with low BA as an NFL QB, I think Jameis Winston... But Winston's numbers have always been way better.
It's easy to say "Try Zach with a new OC, and maybe he's good." But is Zach good enough to deserve overhauling the whole offensive staff for him? Probably not, unless you think the OC is terrible. I think he's OK, not great, not awful.
Well...this is where we'll have to agree to disagree. I need to see offensive staffing changes before i'm ready to move on.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2022, 10:19:49 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 10:32:08 AM
Maybe we shouldn't start the next one we draft high right off the bat if we're having major issues with the offensive line and a WR corps that can't stay healthy.
this is a fair point too.
Post by: Jumbo on December 20, 2022, 10:42:55 AM
When I think HR hitter with low BA as an NFL QB, I think Jameis Winston... But Winston's numbers have always been way better.
It's easy to say "Try Zach with a new OC, and maybe he's good." But is Zach good enough to deserve overhauling the whole offensive staff for him? Probably not, unless you think the OC is terrible. I think he's OK, not great, not awful.
Winston has also been benched for the corpse of Andy Dalton on a shitty team that has no reason to tank (since they don't have their own first). That style is not attractive to teams in the modern NFL.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 20, 2022, 10:44:58 AM
Maybe we shouldn't start the next one we draft high right off the bat if we're having major issues with the offensive line and a WR corps that can't stay healthy.
This.
The last time they were successful in developing a quarterback (and I still maintain Chad would've been in an elite class if not for all the injuries), he sat on his derriere for two years.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2022, 10:56:35 AM
this is a fair point too.
It's like heated arguments every time about how we're losing a year of said QB's contract or we need him to win the big one as a rookie. And then it's followed up with this excrement.
And guess what problems we need to fix next season...
Post by: delavan on December 20, 2022, 10:56:54 AM
Saleh and company need to sit down with someone like Andy Reid in the offseason to learn how to develop a QB properly.
Why when you have a Rob Calabrese? Here's the meteoric rise of the Jets well-seasoned, experienced 32 year old QB braintrust:
- Oviedo HS (2013) Quarterbacks coach (2013)
- UCF Graduate assistant (2014-2015)
- Wagner College Running backs coach (2016)
- Wagner College Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach (2017-2018)
- Denver Broncos Offensive quality control coach (2019-2020)
- New York Jets Quarterbacks coach (2021-present)
Are you freaking kidding me? You're leaving your 2nd overall pick in the hands of a HS QB coach turned GA turned Wagner College turned Broncos film boy?
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 11:00:47 AM
It's like heated arguments every time about how we're losing a year of said QB's contract or we need him to win the big one as a rookie. And then it's followed up with this excrement.
And guess what problems we need to fix next season...
I'm starting to not give a excrement about contracts. I don't have to negotiate them, and I'm not the one shelling out the money.
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 11:01:15 AM
This.
The last time they were successful in developing a quarterback (and I still maintain Chad would've been in an elite class if not for all the injuries), he sat on his derriere for two years.
Do you mean James Chadwick Pennington? It's crazy that was 23 years when he was drafted.
I distinctly remember having a conversation with a Patriots fan sometime in the mid 00s. I was frustrated because Chad was injured and "couldn't make the deep throws." (probably something I read on TGG) I wanted to draft another QB and move on. The Pats fan was like "Chad is a great QB if he can stay healthy. It's so difficult to replace a QB. Keep Chad and build around him."
I was 21 or so and didn't know how true those words were. I'm not sure what my point is other than Chad is likely the greatest "what if" in our franchise history.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 11:02:24 AM
Why when you have a Rob Calabrese? Here's the meteoric rise of the Jets well-seasoned, experienced 32 year old QB braintrust:
- Oviedo HS (2013) Quarterbacks coach (2013)
- UCF Graduate assistant (2014-2015)
- Wagner College Running backs coach (2016)
- Wagner College Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach (2017-2018)
- Denver Broncos Offensive quality control coach (2019-2020)
- New York Jets Quarterbacks coach (2021-present)
Are you freaking kidding me? You're leaving your 2nd overall pick in the hands of a HS QB coach turned GA turned Wagner College turned Broncos film boy?
Yeah, i've seen his resume too.
The offensive staff absolutely needs to start shouldering the blame. It's not all on a 23 year old QB.
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 11:08:31 AM
Yeah, i've seen his resume too.
The offensive staff absolutely needs to start shouldering the blame. It's not all on a 23 year old QB.
As a fanbase I guess it's simply an annoyance but the rigidity and dense perception is frustrating. Perhaps it isn't simply "This QB sucks." "This OC sucks." Perhaps it's this manner of communication is ineffective, or this player learns best by reps while his teammate learns best in classroom setting.
In other words, maybe excrement isn't as simple as it appears while we fart into our couch and bitch about it every weekend.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 11:12:55 AM
As a fanbase I guess it's simply an annoyance but the rigidity and dense perception is frustrating. Perhaps it isn't simply "This QB sucks." "This OC sucks." Perhaps it's this manner of communication is ineffective, or this player learns best by reps while his teammate learns best in classroom setting.
In other words, maybe excrement isn't as simple as it appears while we fart into our couch and bitch about it every weekend.
100% agree
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 11:25:24 AM
So what type of offense were you guys saying Zach would flourish in?
And who is an example of an even remotely feasible option of an OC who can successfully implement it?
The stuff about Calabrese is completely legitimate
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2022, 11:26:10 AM
Maybe we shouldn't start the next one we draft high right off the bat if we're having major issues with the offensive line and a WR corps that can't stay healthy.
Of that it’s been done since… but I’ve advocated for the Carson Palmer method ever since then.
Post by: reuben on December 20, 2022, 11:26:46 AM
My posts aren't better because I wasn't coached up enough
Around year 9 you should expect my posts to really improve
This is actually pretty funny.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2022, 11:38:17 AM
Zach's is ineffective in the pocket, he gets spooked even when he's not being pressured, and he still struggles hitting open receivers. The rollout and improve throws are fun but he cannot do the basic excrement. It sucks that we don't really have a choice, but I don't like throwing him out there right now because it just goes back to reinforcing bad habits. He's not ready, he needs a lot of work, and since he was a #2 pick here the organization will almost certainly not have the patience to give it to him.
LaFleur is showing that he really shouldn't be trusted with developing him, either, since he isn't able to make any noticeable adjustments to the scheme aside from letting Mike White audible from time to time. I don't think converting one of our TEs to fullback or trying more inside runs instead of outside is going to be a cure-all, or even marginally effective, to be honest, but at least some noticeable adjustment would look better than watching the offense dash itself against a wall every play.
Our WRs, TEs, and RBs all have been either injured, inconsistent, or complete psychopaths.
The offensive line that has been put together is bad. There are only two players out there who weren't intended to start during the preseason and they're Nate Herbig and Duane Brown.
-Brown has been good in pass pro but he's not exactly helping the run game to the left side. The guy is going to be 39 next season and is coming off of an injury that could have easily cost him for the entire season. He's not someone we want to build the OLine around.
-Tomlinson has been a disappointment. He's been meh in the run game and routinely gets abused in pass pro. Part of it can be the scheme but it can't be all of it.
-Connor McGovern: He's mid. His contract is up. He's mid. We could do worse by not re-signing him but we could also do a lot better.
-Nate Herbig: Performing admirably as a backup but really not making me forget AVT
-George Fant: See: McGovern.
And this is what we had trying to keep Zach upright and the running game going.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 20, 2022, 12:48:50 PM
When I think HR hitter with low BA as an NFL QB, I think Jameis Winston... But Winston's numbers have always been way better.
It's easy to say "Try Zach with a new OC, and maybe he's good." But is Zach good enough to deserve overhauling the whole offensive staff for him? Probably not, unless you think the OC is terrible. I think he's OK, not great, not awful.
Our offensive staff stinks aside from maybe the running backs coach
TEs have underperformed
OL is atrocious and our top FA signing is a huge part of that
WRs just seem unprepared in almost every game
Our QB hasn’t been properly developed
Why should we want to keep this offensive staff?
Changes have to be made. OL should be first to go.
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 12:53:46 PM
Our offensive staff stinks aside from maybe the running backs coach
TEs have underperformed
OL is atrocious and our top FA signing is a huge part of that
WRs just seem unprepared in almost every game
Our QB hasn’t been properly developed
Why should we want to keep this offensive staff?
Changes have to be made. OL should be first to go.
bUt WhOeVeR wE bRiNg In MaY nOt Be BeTtEr, So WhY tRy?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2022, 01:02:00 PM
I’d be looking to fire the following position coaches
QB coach
WR coach
OL Coach / run game coordinator
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 01:07:35 PM
But this is one of the better wideout units in this team's history
Our best wideout last year was a rookie, our best wideout this year is a rookie setting all kinds of franchise records
And this is all the while we had god awful OL and QB play.
To me replacing our wideout coach would be at the bottom of the list
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2022, 01:19:34 PM
To me replacing our wideout coach would be at the bottom of the list
Our receivers coach is Miles Austin, who came into the league as a UDFA and played for over a decade. The fact that he has so singularly failed to teach not one but two second round picks how to behave with a basic level of professionalism is staggering to me. I'm not really advocating for anyone's replacement because as Steve says there's a fuckton that goes on in the background that we don't see, but I really think that at the very least this offensive staff needs to be enhanced with some kind of experienced guidance and leadership.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 20, 2022, 01:26:09 PM
To me replacing our wideout coach would be at the bottom of the list
It should be one of the best units in franchise history, but it's not.
Corey Davis has been a disappointment when he's actually on the field. He has drop issues and he consistently kills drives with false starts and holds.
Denzel Mims and Elijah Moore have both been mishandled. A lot of fingers being pointed at Calabrese for not helping Wilson develop. What have LaFleur and Austin done for our wideouts?
Every single game, we see either Mims or Moore lining up incorrectly.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2022, 02:12:52 PM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
·
17m
Zach Wilson said he reached out to Steve Young, Drew Brees and Kurt Warner for advice after he was benched.
at least he's reaching out to the right people for advice.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 20, 2022, 02:17:27 PM
Our receivers coach is Miles Austin, who came into the league as a UDFA and played for over a decade. The fact that he has so singularly failed to teach not one but two second round picks how to behave with a basic level of professionalism is staggering to me. I'm not really advocating for anyone's replacement because as Steve says there's a fuckton that goes on in the background that we don't see, but I really think that at the very least this offensive staff needs to be enhanced with some kind of experienced guidance and leadership.I dont think it is fair to blame Austin for the trade requests. Nor do I think what Mims did was unprofessional
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 20, 2022, 02:19:31 PM
Post by: reuben on December 20, 2022, 02:21:43 PM
Nor do I think what Mims did was unprofessional
Not only was it not unprofessional, it was ostensibly honored by management, if JD is to be believed. They tried to find a trade partner for him and they just couldn't get an appropriate value.
Elijah Moore on the other hand is a bitch-made fool of a punk-derriere chump.
Post by: reuben on December 20, 2022, 02:28:17 PM
It should be one of the best units in franchise history, but it's not.
Corey Davis has been a disappointment when he's actually on the field. He has drop issues and he consistently kills drives with false starts and holds.
Denzel Mims and Elijah Moore have both been mishandled. A lot of fingers being pointed at Calabrese for not helping Wilson develop. What have LaFleur and Austin done for our wideouts?
Every single game, we see either Mims or Moore lining up incorrectly.
On the flip side of this argument, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, is the fact that we're enjoying the best rookie wide receiver performance in Jets history this season.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2022, 02:41:42 PM
I dont think it is fair to blame Austin for the trade requests. Nor do I think what Mims did was unprofessional
For sure Moore's behaviour was worse than Mims', but it's a problem if Austin isn't talking to them both about how the NFL works, how they need to behave in order to be successful in it, and why issuing trade demands two seasons or less into their careers is a horrible black mark, and it's a different problem if he is having those conversations and they're not listening.
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2022, 02:42:28 PM
at least he's reaching out to the right people for advice.Can't believe he didn't ask Mike Westhoff.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2022, 02:42:35 PM
On the flip side of this argument, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, is the fact that we're enjoying the best rookie wide receiver performance in Jets history this season.
As I have said previously, no matter how this season ends up I will be grateful that I got to watch Garrett Wilson play in it.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 02:46:26 PM
For sure Moore's behaviour was worse than Mims', but it's a problem if Austin isn't talking to them both about how the NFL works, how they need to behave in order to be successful in it, and why issuing trade demands two seasons or less into their careers is a horrible black mark, and it's a different problem if he is having those conversations and they're not listening.
I don't know the logistics of an NFL franchise
But surely this is an organizational issue and not on a position coach?
Like Heis said, if these guys are lining up at the wrong spot that's 100% on the player and their position coach
But if they're unprofessional and or jack asses?
That's going to be some permutation of the HC, organizational culture, owner, and whatever the freak resources franchises invest in teaching these young kids how to grow up
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 02:49:07 PM
I don't know the logistics of an NFL franchise
But surely this is an organizational issue and not on a position coach?
Like Heis said, if these guys are lining up at the wrong spot that's 100% on the player and their position coach
But if they're unprofessional and or jack asses?
That's going to be some permutation of the HC, organizational culture, owner, and whatever the freak resources franchises invest in teaching these young kids how to grow up
I wonder if NFL teams have essentially a "guidance counselor" someone that can help them navigate unprecedented fame, money, expectations etc that a tiny percentage of people will ever have to handle. It seems like a no brainer but I don't think I've heard of something like this.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 20, 2022, 02:54:40 PM
For sure Moore's behaviour was worse than Mims', but it's a problem if Austin isn't talking to them both about how the NFL works, how they need to behave in order to be successful in it, and why issuing trade demands two seasons or less into their careers is a horrible black mark, and it's a different problem if he is having those conversations and they're not listening.I don't think it's on the coach to tell a 2nd-year player not to request a trade during a winning streak.
It would be like telling someone not to excrement on the floor. That isn't something you should have to tell a 22-year old. You would think that would be assumed. Lining up wrong, sure, that's coaching, and you can chalk up youth to that. But the midseason trade request was something you never see.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 02:59:01 PM
I wonder if NFL teams have essentially a "guidance counselor" someone that can help them navigate unprecedented fame, money, expectations etc that a tiny percentage of people will ever have to handle. It seems like a no brainer but I don't think I've heard of something like this.
I know in the past nfl network and or espn have shown like rookie transition bullshit programs that teach young guys how to save their money responsibly etc etc taught by old timers
I don't know if these are TV network things or somehow nfl sponsored
https://operations.nfl.com/journey-to-the-nfl/nfl-development-pipeline/nfl-rookie-transition-program/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20Rookie%20Transition%20Program%20allows,with%20on%20a%20daily%20basis.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2022, 03:01:03 PM
I don't think it's on the coach to tell a 2nd-year player not to request a trade during a winning streak.
It would be like telling someone not to excrement on the floor. That isn't something you should have to tell a 22-year old. You would think that would be assumed. Lining up wrong, sure, that's coaching, and you can chalk up youth to that. But the midseason trade request was something you never see.
Sure and I'm not excusing Moore, but I doubt it just came out of the blue and the fact that his position coach didn't see it coming and have a grip on his young player is a problem.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2022, 03:01:31 PM
I know in the past nfl network and or espn have shown like rookie transition bullshit programs that teach young guys how to save their money responsibly etc etc taught by old timers
I don't know if these are TV network things or somehow nfl sponsored
https://operations.nfl.com/journey-to-the-nfl/nfl-development-pipeline/nfl-rookie-transition-program/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20Rookie%20Transition%20Program%20allows,with%20on%20a%20daily%20basis.
"Make sure you have a fall guy in your crew."
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 03:05:19 PM
I know in the past nfl network and or espn have shown like rookie transition bullshit programs that teach young guys how to save their money responsibly etc etc taught by old timers
I don't know if these are TV network things or somehow nfl sponsored
https://operations.nfl.com/journey-to-the-nfl/nfl-development-pipeline/nfl-rookie-transition-program/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20Rookie%20Transition%20Program%20allows,with%20on%20a%20daily%20basis (https://operations.nfl.com/journey-to-the-nfl/nfl-development-pipeline/nfl-rookie-transition-program/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20Rookie%20Transition%20Program%20allows,with%20on%20a%20daily%20basis).
I think it's something the team should sponsor. It's in the team's best interest for a player to transition successfully and with direct control, you could assure the culture you cultivate is being conveyed.
Post by: Coach K on December 20, 2022, 06:06:27 PM
Wilson's career mightve died with him
Not filling that void is showing up now . I know Heis or someone mentioned it days ago but it's very apparent now
MLF and Zach are loke two guys throwing buckets of water off eachotjers leaking boat into the others as they simultaneously sink lol
Zach has the tools but if he can't start hitting open guys in stride he won't be in a jets uniform much longer
The jets are incapable of developing a qb . That being said the anger comes from this being one of tbe more talented rosters offensively since Sanchez was here .
Either way who cares
Zach can cement himself for next y by at least getting us to Miami where we're playing for something
But that can all vanish Thursday night
That's where I'm at . At this point
Post by: Coach K on December 20, 2022, 06:07:35 PM
yeah, i picked up on this too. It's certainly a gaffe on JD. But, how do you get past it? IMO, we bring in a coach and system that actually fits what Zach brings to the table.This system is qb friendly . MLF has gone of out his way to change that
I think that's DJ's evaluation of what Zach is today (currently)...which is correct. But without seeing him in a different offense, do we really know what we have in him? You bring in a different offensive coaching staff and system...then we'll get confirmation.
i don't hate Lafleur, DS, but i do hate the fact he's ruining our young QB the longer he sticks around.
Zach is literally poor man's Justin fields right now . Hate to say it. So you wanna do what CHI or Baltimore does with a slower more frail kid ? Lol
Post by: Coach K on December 20, 2022, 06:08:03 PM
Post by: Coach K on December 20, 2022, 06:09:00 PM
Yeah, i've seen his resume too.Hopefully Saleh can tell MLennyF about how nice the rabbit farm will be in the offseason
The offensive staff absolutely needs to start shouldering the blame. It's not all on a 23 year old QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 20, 2022, 06:27:23 PM
This system is qb friendly . MLF has gone of out his way to change that
Zach is literally poor man's Justin fields right now . Hate to say it. So you wanna do what CHI or Baltimore does with a slower more frail kid ? Lol
…how is Wilson a poor man’s …Justin Fields?
Post by: Coach K on December 20, 2022, 06:28:51 PM
…how is Wilson a poor man’s …Justin Fields?It's hyperbole . MBGreen mentions building the system around what he does well
This system was supposed to he a fit but between MLF and Wilson shitting in eachothers cereal the only things Wilson has proven he can do is throw a deep ball on tbe run and run the football
It's a joke relax lol
Post by: Coach K on December 20, 2022, 06:30:15 PM
Time is a flat circle and we lorhably Darnold him
That being said even Darnomd debut was better than anything Wilson has ever done and he did it with less talent lol
So I don't think anyone is accurate at this ppint fact of the matter is both Zach and MLF are mediocre at best right now
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 20, 2022, 06:52:20 PM
indeed
????
i feel like there were multiple moments where we saw him on the sidelines with white, flacco, and a coach looking at plays on the tablet. especially after the interception
Post by: Coach K on December 21, 2022, 09:14:59 PM
Hes gotta hit the simple intermediate reads
MLF needs to run from under center more and show more than 2 scheme concepts for running
More te usage more rollout. Let this kid play without a leash . Wtf do we have to lose were ahead of schedule and this kid needs to prove something .
Don't abandon the run
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 12:15:11 AM
Ok kid. Time to win back half the fan base and put your big boy pants onTough spot to do it in a windy, rainy awful weather game. But this can be north Jersey in late December so I don't want to make too many excuses.
Hes gotta hit the simple intermediate reads
MLF needs to run from under center more and show more than 2 scheme concepts for running
More te usage more rollout. Let this kid play without a leash . Wtf do we have to lose were ahead of schedule and this kid needs to prove something .
Don't abandon the run
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 22, 2022, 09:10:44 AM
Sure and I'm not excusing Moore, but I doubt it just came out of the blue and the fact that his position coach didn't see it coming and have a grip on his young player is a problem.
It was literally because Dick Cimini is a miserable player of the pink oboe looking to stir up excrement
Post by: Jumbo on December 22, 2022, 02:10:09 PM
Post by: reuben on December 22, 2022, 03:22:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5JXwlu3zHY
"Not all misses are the same. The miss radius matters. Those are bad, bad misses. Bad plays. And they are seemingly all over the film. They really are. The consistency of these types of head-shaking throws, decisions, are just too layered into the film to give yourself a chance to win at a high level and be a franchise-type guy."
Yup.
Post by: Johnny English on December 22, 2022, 09:56:13 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 09:57:44 PM
NGL, the shots of him on the sideline watching Strev were pretty awful. He's a young guy and he has tens of thousands of people booing him - I don't care how much he gets paid, the poor lad must be absolutely broken inside.We turned on him quicker than most young QBs. But he has also been worse than most young QBs.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 22, 2022, 09:59:06 PM
We turned on him quicker than most young QBs. But he has also been worse than most young QBs.
Doesn't help that he was preceded by three years of Darnold.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 22, 2022, 09:59:35 PM
NGL, the shots of him on the sideline watching Strev were pretty awful. He's a young guy and he has tens of thousands of people booing him - I don't care how much he gets paid, the poor lad must be absolutely broken inside.Yeah, I was telling my son I felt bad for Wilson. I mean, he sucks, but that has to be hard for him to watch. I don't wish that on him.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 22, 2022, 10:00:29 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 10:00:35 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 22, 2022, 10:00:46 PM
We turned on him quicker than most young QBs. But he has also been worse than most young QBs.
Yes, but he looked like he was on the verge of tears. On a human level I can't imagine how awful he must feel, he's not trying to suck. He's doing the best he knows how, and huge amounts of people are vociferously hating him for it.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 22, 2022, 10:00:50 PM
One day we'll have a quarterback, guys.I'll be dead first.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 22, 2022, 10:01:42 PM
Yes, but he looked like he was on the verge of tears. On a human level I can't imagine how awful he must feel, he's not trying to suck. He's doing the best he knows how, and huge amounts of people are vociferously hating him for it.
"This organization is going to lift you up."
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 10:02:19 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 10:03:47 PM
Yes, but he looked like he was on the verge of tears. On a human level I can't imagine how awful he must feel, he's not trying to suck. He's doing the best he knows how, and huge amounts of people are vociferously hating him for it.Don't worry Zach...Uncle Lafleur is going down too
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 10:06:39 PM
Don't worry Zach...Uncle Lafleur is going down tooWe have played 4 QBs and Zach is the worst. Maybe the guy on your avatar who drafted Zach deserves some blame
Post by: Johnny English on December 22, 2022, 10:07:54 PM
https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2021ZWilson.php
Post by: Jumbo on December 22, 2022, 10:08:23 PM
Should I change the thread title to Zach Into the Sun?
Zach to the Gulag
Post by: bojanglesman on December 22, 2022, 10:08:57 PM
We have played 4 QBs and Zach is the worst. Maybe the guy on your avatar who drafted Zach deserves some blameDouglas missed on Zach but he's done well otherwise. We lost 57 OL to injury. What are you supposed to do about that? He's the last person I blame for this garbage heap. Salah and Douglas are fine. freak everyone else.
Post by: Coach K on December 22, 2022, 10:09:03 PM
We have played 4 QBs and Zach is the worst. Maybe the guy on your avatar who drafted Zach deserves some blameThe guy on MY avatar clearly missed. But hit so well elsewhere I can't be calling for his job
MLF however is mediocre at best. At best
Wilson is done. Good night sweet Mormon prince
Post by: bojanglesman on December 22, 2022, 10:11:56 PM
Post by: reuben on December 22, 2022, 10:14:31 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 22, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
Post by: Jumbo on December 22, 2022, 10:15:19 PM
Quote
Revis: zach wilson has lost the trust of the Jet fanbase. im not saying it’s impossible. it will be very hard to regain their trust again. i witnessed these same boos when brett farve was under center.
Even Revis doesn't know how to spell Favre
Post by: Libero_2 on December 22, 2022, 10:15:50 PM
"This organization is going to lift you up."
I mean at seasons start we kinda did. He’s now 5-4 as a starter, because everything else around him was clicking and playing well. Since AVT and Hall got hurt on the same drive our offense has driven off a Cliff, despite having the best rookie wr in the league. Our defense has failed to create impactful turnovers in this entire losing streak (tonight’s Q fumble was the first one in 5 weeks to have us in plus territory) and our ST has to have one of the worst field position disparities in the league.
Post by: Coach K on December 22, 2022, 10:20:05 PM
Of we looked like that with streveler and no real scheme then ya
This is objectively true
Post by: reuben on December 22, 2022, 10:20:25 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 22, 2022, 10:20:42 PM
So... bigger than Vernon Gholston?
Oh yeah
Post by: Coach K on December 22, 2022, 10:21:06 PM
So... bigger than Vernon Gholston?Yes undoubtedly
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 10:23:47 PM
So... bigger than Vernon Gholston?Drafted higher. Gholston didn't play enough to hurt us. Zach has. #genologic
Post by: bojanglesman on December 22, 2022, 10:24:32 PM
Post by: reuben on December 22, 2022, 10:26:22 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 10:34:05 PM
I don't know... a pass rusher who never recorded a sack? I still might give the nod to Vern.Gholston was probably worse but we also tried to make him earn a spot. Zach earned nothing.
Geno was better
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 22, 2022, 10:34:14 PM
I don't know... a pass rusher who never recorded a sack? I still might give the nod to Vern.
Drafting a bust at EDGE doesn’t affect your franchise like drafting a bust at QB does. Literally didn’t affect our only recently successful teams.
QB position has destroyed this season with an otherwise good team
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 10:41:53 PM
Zach is clearly a bust...but he's gonna take some coaches with him into the abyss.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 22, 2022, 10:53:55 PM
Vern also got Mangini fired.
Zach is clearly a bust...but he's gonna take some coaches with him into the abyss.
Lolno that was Favrenstein, interesting recollection though
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 10:54:54 PM
Lolno that was Favrenstein, interesting recollection though
oh no..the Vern pick was certainly a big reason why
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 22, 2022, 10:56:10 PM
Lolno that was Favrenstein, interesting recollection though
Chasing Gholston around with his own scouting reports trying to motivate him was the part that was easier to mock Mangini over, but Favre and the unreported shoulder injury were definitely the kill shot.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 07:22:16 AM
Quote
Rich Eisen
@richeisen
·
9h
As Trevor wins 4 of 5 and Zach watches Chris Streveler mop up, how are those last two wins of the Adam Gase Era in Week 15 and 16 of 2020 tasting tonight?
I feel you, Uncle Rich. #TankingWorks
Post by: insanity on December 23, 2022, 07:28:55 AM
Coming into the league zach did not have these accuracy problems, quite rhe opposite. In year 1 I remember saying how well he placed the ball on short throws compared to darnold. Something changed mentally or with his mechanics and we ruined him.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 07:32:25 AM
I want to clarify that although zach has been terrible. What we've been seeing over the past 5-7 games is not the qb we drafted.
Coming into the league zach did not have these accuracy problems, quite rhe opposite. In year 1 I remember saying how well he placed the ball on short throws compared to darnold. Something changed mentally or with his mechanics and we ruined him.
I argued this point most of the night last night.
EDIT: Zach is definitely cooked. But his OC/QB coach didn't do him any favors either.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 08:27:49 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 23, 2022, 08:38:16 AM
WTF? Everyone complained about his accuracy in his first year.
Yeah, I'm struggling to recall this version of Zach Wilson who ever demonstrated any ability to see and locate short throws. I know we commented a few times on some tight throws he made successfully, but he has never consistently located and thrown to the open man.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 08:44:03 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 23, 2022, 08:49:36 AM
There is no reason to keep him here next year. Move on, however it happens. Hopefully he signs with a team as a low profile backup and rebuilds his confidence. Like Darnold, I don't wish bad on the dude.
Hopefully they can get Mike White back for the final two games and at least get a glimpse on whether he's worth anything other than backup consideration.
I think most of us are tired of drafting QBs. Try to get a proven commodity, even if just average.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 09:09:45 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 23, 2022, 09:13:10 AM
I want to clarify that although zach has been terrible. What we've been seeing over the past 5-7 games is not the qb we drafted.
Coming into the league zach did not have these accuracy problems, quite rhe opposite. In year 1 I remember saying how well he placed the ball on short throws compared to darnold. Something changed mentally or with his mechanics and we ruined him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxUqJ7N0HTE
this was the second game of his career last year. look at the decision making, look at the mechanics, look at the ball and who was around and where he threw it to. you honestly wouldn't be able to tell if this was a play from last year or this year
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:13:37 AM
We had no one on the offensive staff that had ever called plays or developed a QB and Saleh decided to replace his only experienced offensive coach with Rob Calabrese, who was basically an intern.
Not replacing the QB coach was a huge misstep. They tried to bring in Beck and it helped a little bit but then when he walked, they opted to stick with Calabrese again. Joe Flacco and Mike White are basically the QB coaches for this team. It’s been mismanaged from the jump.
This wasn’t fair to Wilson or LaFleue.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 23, 2022, 09:17:54 AM
i guess it is what it is. the real writing on the wall was that whole thing about him being so shook he forgot that the called play was a pass and not a run.
this game is as much mental as it is physical and when the pressure of the game is so much that it literally blocks you from being able to remember whether a called play is a pass or a run, you're finished at the top level.
he's still young so a turnaround from that respect is at least theoretical, but it shouldn't/won't happen here.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 23, 2022, 05:16:14 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 05:23:47 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 05:27:45 PM
he is the first QB i've ever seen whose blind side is both sides
Sanchez wasn’t much better, he just had elite protection and one of the best run games in the league
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:01:08 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 09:06:05 PM
Post by: reuben on December 23, 2022, 09:13:41 PM
https://twitter.com/SufferingJets/status/1606391887547580416
She's not wrong though.
Post by: Johnny English on December 23, 2022, 09:20:37 PM
She's not wrong though.
Zach is not a terrible QB because we're assholes. The two things are both true but unconnected.
Post by: steves850 on December 23, 2022, 09:22:49 PM
She's not wrong though.Yes, mean fans made Zach Wilson bad at QB. Good point…
Post by: reuben on December 23, 2022, 09:28:19 PM
The two things are both true but unconnected.
This is what I should have said.
Post by: steves850 on December 23, 2022, 09:29:16 PM
This is what I should have said.Jets fans can be toxic but I don’t think it’s exclusive to us.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:29:55 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 23, 2022, 09:38:24 PM
Every passionate fan base can be toxic.
Yes but NY is just bipolar. If he was a star, he’d be the best thing ever. But because he’s bad, he’s being talked about as one of the top 5 biggest NFL draft busts ever.
Our media is much more aggressive than other places and markets, and our fans are dying to continue to be miserable assholes always expecting the other shoe to drop. All the energy they have funneled into rookie of the week belts and pro bowl votes, I’m sure was turned to vitriol and hate on the twitter sphere to Zach and his family.
Post by: insanity on December 23, 2022, 11:40:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxUqJ7N0HTEWhat does that throw have to do with accuracy? No one is arguing that he hasnt consistently made dumb mistakes that we can't comprehend. My point is that ball placement on short and intermediate throws were never a problem.
this was the second game of his career last year. look at the decision making, look at the mechanics, look at the ball and who was around and where he threw it to. you honestly wouldn't be able to tell if this was a play from last year or this year
Look at his first game of his career
https://youtu.be/pqGmr8gpQF0
He's got good ball placement on 90% of his throws. Even when he's off balance and getting tackled.
He may never have become great because of his bad decision making but he didn't have this accuracy problem when he came into the nfl.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 11:50:46 PM
What does that throw have to do with accuracy? No one is arguing that he hasnt consistently made dumb mistakes that we can't comprehend. My point is that ball placement on short and intermediate throws were never a problem.
Look at his first game of his career
https://youtu.be/pqGmr8gpQF0
He's got good ball placement on 90% of his throws. Even when he's off balance and getting tackled.
He may never have become great because of his bad decision making but he didn't have this accuracy problem when he came into the nfl.
Lmao this footage is terrible.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 23, 2022, 11:52:23 PM
Yes but NY is just bipolar. If he was a star, he’d be the best thing ever. But because he’s bad, he’s being talked about as one of the top 5 biggest NFL draft busts ever.
Our media is much more aggressive than other places and markets, and our fans are dying to continue to be miserable assholes always expecting the other shoe to drop. All the energy they have funneled into rookie of the week belts and pro bowl votes, I’m sure was turned to vitriol and hate on the twitter sphere to Zach and his family.
Him being talked about as one of the top 5 biggest draft busts of all time isn't because this is ny
It's because he's one of the top 5 biggest draft busts of all time. The dude was a few weeks into his second season when it was obvious to (almost) anyone that this dude don't belong in the NFL, and to do so as a second overall pick is 1000 times worse.
I think I've seen statistically Zach Wilson is remarkably similar to JaMarcus Russell.
I think the biggest red flag has to be our scouting department and or decision makers.
I understand the bust rate for QB's is very high and it is what it is. But for a 2nd overall QB to be such a freaking castrophic bust early in his second season. Means either our scouting department is absolutely freaking terrible, or someone overruled them and shoved this absolutely garbage pick down throats. Considering how phenomenal our recent draft class was, and the fact that we opted to trade Darnold. Makes me think this was some severe Joe Douglas retardation.
Regardless I feel like this was such a big catastrophic diasaster that there needs to be some internal root cause analysis excrement going on to figure out why the freak this happened, and who needs to be catapulted into the sun
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 11:53:04 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 12:59:05 AM
- Both were young, athletic QBs with good arms and productive college careers
- Both were immature and didn't necessarily have the best relationship with temamates
- The hatred for both guys seemed more personal than most among the fans
- Both were below average for rookies in Year 1 but were more effective down the stretch to give some hope
- Both were benched midway through Year 2 for poor play
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 24, 2022, 04:49:40 AM
I think the biggest red flag has to be our scouting department and or decision makers.
You mean, the same ones who drafted two first season ProBowlers and one more who should have been if he didn't get injured, plus moved up for AVT who's arguably the best player on the team?
Quote
Regardless I feel like this was such a big catastrophic diasaster that there needs to be some internal root cause analysis excrement going on to figure out why the freak this happened, and who needs to be catapulted into the sun
It's not a big mystery what happened. Covid marred season, poor quality of his rivals, tantalizing arm talent. The causes are not some enigma, they took a bet. It backfired badly. It's excrement and they have to take responsibility, but it happens. Look at Mayfield bouncing from team to team.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 08:58:38 AM
You mean, the same ones who drafted two first season ProBowlers and one more who should have been if he didn't get injured, plus moved up for AVT who's arguably the best player on the team?
It's not a big mystery what happened. Covid marred season, poor quality of his rivals, tantalizing arm talent. The causes are not some enigma, they took a bet. It backfired badly. It's excrement and they have to take responsibility, but it happens. Look at Mayfield bouncing from team to team.
Is it necessarily the same scouts though?
I mean it was different years so guys could have been in different positions, different geographic regions, and since this was the most important draft pick in years I'm sure you had countless other guys involved.
Regardless nobody gets a pass when you're talking about a historically bad draft pick.
This excrement is beyond inexcusable and deserves the most thorough of reviews possible.
And Mayfield doesn't even resemble Zach
At least he actually managed to warrant a 5th year option
His hell began because Watson became available.. If not for Watson Mayfield would probably be on his second contract with the Browns
If Wilson was as good as Mayfield we'd be discussing how we could build around his deficits to get just enough to win now
Instead were talking about how a 4th string UDFA QB from the practice squad in his first ever gameplay revitalized the offense
Post by: Johnny English on December 24, 2022, 09:17:16 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 10:08:48 AM
We're not talking whiffing on a 5th round safety. The QB was personally scouted extensively by the GM, we all saw the footage of him at Zach's pro day followed the day after by the Darnold trade. An unknown scout doesn't go under the wheels for this one.This.
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 10:33:10 AM
Hes gonna be somewhere in 6 or 7 yrs lighting it up .
Le sigh
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 10:51:27 AM
Yes . He'd Weno white geno
Hes gonna be somewhere in 6 or 7 yrs lighting it up .
Le sigh
XFL?
CFL?
His mom's best friends house
Definitely won't be in the NFL
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 24, 2022, 10:54:06 AM
But if you look at this QB stats over his first two years, you'd think he'd be garbage as well
7 Wins 19 Losses / 381 of 692 4058 yards passing / 55% Comp PCT / 20 TD / 36 INT / Passer Rating of ~60
This is none other than Troy Aikman
Stats aren't everything...and not sure how badly Aikman struggled early on, but Zach clearly doesn't pass the eye test. You just don't know if the light will ever go on for Zach
Post by: bojanglesman on December 24, 2022, 10:58:43 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 24, 2022, 10:58:59 AM
I am going to preface this with I think Zach is done here.
But if you look at this QB stats over his first two years, you'd think he'd be garbage as well
7 Wins 19 Losses / 381 of 692 4058 yards passing / 55% Comp PCT / 20 TD / 36 INT / Passer Rating of ~60
This is none other than Troy Aikman
Stats aren't everything...and not sure how badly Aikman struggled early on, but Zach clearly doesn't pass the eye test. You just don't know if the light will ever go on for Zach
Different era of football.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 11:01:54 AM
I am going to preface this with I think Zach is done here.
But if you look at this QB stats over his first two years, you'd think he'd be garbage as well
7 Wins 19 Losses / 381 of 692 4058 yards passing / 55% Comp PCT / 20 TD / 36 INT / Passer Rating of ~60
This is none other than Troy Aikman
Stats aren't everything...and not sure how badly Aikman struggled early on, but Zach clearly doesn't pass the eye test. You just don't know if the light will ever go on for Zach
Zach Wilson wouldn't be a top 10 QB statistically if it was 1970
Post by: Johnny English on December 24, 2022, 11:13:45 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 11:14:10 AM
I don't think it's impossible for him to go somewhere else and sit for a while behind a franchise QB and develop into a better QB. It's all there physically, it's just the brain part. Who knows...Agreed. But I dont think it happens here.
And guys who started their careers before Zach was born aren't good comps.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 24, 2022, 11:17:05 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 24, 2022, 11:17:13 AM
it would be very Jet-esque if we cast him away and he turns into a solid QB for another team.
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 11:23:25 AM
it would be very Jet-esque if we cast him away and he turns into a solid QB for another team.
I'm bracing for this.
This is why I wanted to see him in a different system before we discarded him. It doesn't sound like that may happen.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 11:29:28 AM
That's what Alex and Geno Smith did. Nobody gets that much time. And nobody should. If he figures it out down the road, good for him.
The only way it is an indictment on the Jets is if they move on and in the next 1-3 years, he looks good elsewhere, and we dont get a good replacement.
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 11:46:47 AM
If he becomes a good QB in 5+ years, who cares?We're the jets
That's what Alex and Geno Smith did. Nobody gets that much time. And nobody should. If he figures it out down the road, good for him.
The only way it is an indictment on the Jets is if they move on and in the next 1-3 years, he looks good elsewhere, and we dont get a good replacement.
All of this is equally possible
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 12:16:45 PM
I trust Jay Glazer
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 12:19:59 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 12:21:27 PM
Yeah that's pretty obvious at this point.Well...being on the roster but not starting...and...not being on the team at all are 2 different things. I didn't expect the latter. I thought he'd might get a chance to compete next year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 12:24:50 PM
Well...being on the roster but not starting...and...not being on the team at all are 2 different things. I didn't expect the latter. I thought he'd might get a chance to compete next year.I thought so, too, until Thursday night. After Thursday night, I'm not sure you can trust Zach with anything. Clearly, the team doesn't trust him. I don't know if the team doesn't like Zach. But you can plainly see his teammates think he sucks by their body language (and comments in the past).
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 12:25:25 PM
Well...being on the roster but not starting...and...not being on the team at all are 2 different things. I didn't expect the latter. I thought he'd might get a chance to compete next year.
If you get pulled for, and outplayed by Chris Streveler then you are not ready to compete.
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 12:29:30 PM
If you get pulled for, and outplayed by Chris Streveler then you are not ready to compete.Chris Streveler is your daddy.
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 12:31:07 PM
Chris Streveler is your daddy.Was that a quote from Saleh
Anyone hear the report of JD needing to be restrained by Saleh because a fan told him congrats on drafting Ryan leaf
Word is JD said I can break you like a freaking pretzel and approached him and Saleh had to basically step in and move him back lol
Then again it was just a popular jet online pers9nality claiming they camped out over an hr after the game to berate everyone lol
But this is actually believable rofl I dunno why
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 12:32:54 PM
Was that a quote from SalehWat
Anyone hear the report of JD needing to be restrained by Saleh because a fan told him congrats on drafting Ryan leaf
Word is JD said I can break you like a freaking pretzel and approached him and Saleh had to basically step in and move him back lol
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 12:33:54 PM
Wathttps://youtu.be/VGtxXoTBSmA
Just a rumor probably bs but funny in a sad way
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 12:42:42 PM
The Joe Douglas story is obviously not real
But we'd be looking at a new everything if it was
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 12:47:29 PM
https://youtu.be/VGtxXoTBSmA
Just a rumor probably bs but funny in a sad way
I can’t say that I completely believe it but it’s not a good luck if it’s true.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 12:49:29 PM
I can’t say that I completely believe it but it’s not a good luck if it’s true.I heard about that on another show, too, that a fan went after Douglas and he didn't take it well.
Tough, emotional game. But Douglas deserves a good deal of blame for what has gone wrong with this season. He got credit when we were winning, but we're 7-8 now. Hopefully, we finish 9-8.
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 01:02:38 PM
I heard about that on another show, too, that a fan went after Douglas and he didn't take it well.I hope this is real and gets JD fired up....to go hard after Lamar Jackson.
Tough, emotional game. But Douglas deserves a good deal of blame for what has gone wrong with this season. He got credit when we were winning, but we're 7-8 now. Hopefully, we finish 9-8.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 01:15:40 PM
Chris Streveler is your daddy.
I look forward to his USFL TC battle.
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 01:16:20 PM
I look forward to his USFL TC battle.You better be in attendance like a good son.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 01:18:56 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 01:20:49 PM
Chris Streveler is where our playoff hopes went to die.He puts food on your table, you disrespectful swine.
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 01:49:47 PM
I hope this is real and gets JD fired up....to go hard after Lamar Jackson.I'd back up the brinks truck
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 24, 2022, 01:56:08 PM
I heard about that on another show, too, that a fan went after Douglas and he didn't take it well.
Tough, emotional game. But Douglas deserves a good deal of blame for what has gone wrong with this season. He got credit when we were winning, but we're 7-8 now. Hopefully, we finish 9-8.
Disagree. He deserves blame for Zach, nothing else. We got an inordinate amount of injuries to important players and linemen. He built us deep enough to compete on every game and that's what we've done.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 01:56:32 PM
I'd back up the brinks truck
Don't forget to turn the dream machine on too
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 01:59:09 PM
Disagree. He deserves blame for Zach, nothing else. We got an inordinate amount of injuries to important players and linemen. He built us deep enough to compete on every game and that's what we've done.
The fact that he decided to trade a 1st round QB on a rookie contract then went out and drafted this fraud. Makes this 1000 times worse
Had he stuck with Darnold and built around him, we'd be in an exponentially better position.
Instead he decided to make fairly extreme moves and they completely blew up in our face immensely freaking this franchise
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 24, 2022, 01:59:43 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 02:02:56 PM
You don't know football.
Maybe you should go back and read the posts of people here blowing Zach Wilson the last 2 years.
Now the guys on a short list with JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 02:03:06 PM
The fact that he decided to trade a 1st round QB on a rookie contract then went out and drafted this fraud. Makes this 1000 times worseYou REALLY don't know football
Had he stuck with Darnold and built around him, we'd be in an exponentially better position.
Instead he decided to make fairly extreme moves and they completely blew up in our face immensely freaking this franchise
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 02:15:34 PM
You REALLY don't know football
Says the guy who believes in Zach more than his mom
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 02:28:04 PM
Says the guy who believes in Zach more than his momNot anymore.
But I'm also not spreading dumb excrement like "durrr let's trade for Jordan Love"
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 02:29:18 PM
Not anymore.
But I'm also not spreading dumb excrement like "durrr let's trade for Jordan Love"
Yeah trading a mid to late round pick for Love would be terrible
Definitely much worse than drafting a CFL backup with the 2nd overall pick
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 02:32:09 PM
Yeah trading a mid to late round pick for Love would be terribleSo your solution is to trade a mid rounder, that GB won't accept, for an unproven QB that isn't very good to begin with?
Definitely much worse than drafting a CFL backup with the 2nd overall pick
Stick to Zach slander..it's all you have.
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 02:35:50 PM
Don't forget to turn the dream machine on tooIt's more realistic than trading for Jordan love . Because that's when you fire Joe Douglas
Post by: Johnny English on December 24, 2022, 02:39:14 PM
You don't know football.
I mean, we definitely would be in a better spot if we'd stuck with Darnold, because we still might not have a QB but we'd have spent the #2 on either an elite player or a trade to get multiple extra good ones. I get why he chose to move on but in hindsight it was clearly the wrong decision.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 02:45:40 PM
So your solution is to trade a mid rounder, that GB won't accept, for an unproven QB that isn't very good to begin with?
Stick to Zach slander..it's all you have.
Why wouldn't Green Bay accept that?
At the end of the day they're keeping Rodgers or Love
Almost certainly not both.
I don't think Love should be option number one. But if say Jimmy G isn't healthy or is out of our price range. I think taking a flier on Love is completely reasonable. Low risk move. And potential to nab us an athletic young dude
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 02:51:06 PM
Why wouldn't Green Bay accept that?Why would Green Bay trade away a player they spent 2 years developing, spent a 1st round pick on, for lesser draft compensation?
At the end of the day they're keeping Rodgers or Love
Almost certainly not both.
I don't think Love should be option number one. But if say Jimmy G isn't healthy or is out of our price range. I think taking a flier on Love is completely reasonable. Low risk move. And potential to nab us an athletic young dude
Put some thought into your posts for once.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 03:00:32 PM
Why would Green Bay trade away a player they spent 2 years developing, spent a 1st round pick on, for lesser draft compensation?
Put some thought into your posts for once.
Let's see
How about because he's in the final year of his rookie contract, and Green Bay has made some remarks that sounds like they're going to ride with Rodgers
Love was drafted to be a starter and has never gotten much of a chance.
If Rodgers retires this is all entirely moot. The alternatives are what? 5th year rookie option for Love, a guy whose never played, and then have like a 70 million dollar cap hit for their QBs in 2024? Or let Love walk after the season.
Love getting traded is a very very real possibility. And there's no way it's going to be for high compensation because he's unproven and on essentially a one year deal
I think the best Green Bay can hope for is a conditional pick that escalates.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 03:02:42 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/jordan-love-will-request-trade-2023-packers-insider-believes%3famp
The rumors of Love being traded have been very substantial.
Honestly I think Wilson for Love could make so much sense
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 03:10:50 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 03:11:47 PM
Love sucks anyway....move on
Probably
But it's unimaginable for him to suck as much as Zach Wilson.
Post by: Jumbo on December 24, 2022, 03:12:42 PM
Love sucks anyway....move on
SBTZ
Post by: insanity on December 24, 2022, 03:14:50 PM
Lmao this footage is terrible.He makes rookie mistakes but my point remains. He was not off target on short throws
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 03:16:20 PM
He makes rookie mistakes but my point remains. He was not off target on short throws
I don’t think you know what off-target means.
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 03:17:30 PM
SBTZSo let's get someone who might be marginally better while giving up draft compensation?
Aim higher.
Post by: reuben on December 24, 2022, 03:20:03 PM
He makes rookie mistakes but my point remains. He was not off target on short throws
What are you watching?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 03:21:20 PM
What are you watching?
A different version of every play in his brain.
Post by: insanity on December 24, 2022, 03:28:43 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 03:34:11 PM
Why would Green Bay trade away a player they spent 2 years developing, spent a 1st round pick on, for lesser draft compensation?By that logic, the Jets should settle for no less than the No. 2 overall pick for Zach Wilson.
Put some thought into your posts for once.
Jordan Love's stock has dropped since they drafted him. He didn't look good in limited time. He hasn't looked great in preseason. And the later guys get into their rookie deals, the less value they have unless they have actively shown why their value should increase.
The Jets should bring in one young QB in the room next year. That could be a draft pick. It could be Zach. It could even be a guy like Jordan Love. But whatever young guy we bring in should come in as the backup (or 3rd stringer).
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 03:35:49 PM
By that logic, the Jets should settle for no less than the No. 2 overall pick for Zach Wilson.So your 2nd paragraph basically states why we shouldn't go near Jordan Love....
Jordan Love's stock has dropped since they drafted him. He didn't look good in limited time. He hasn't looked great in preseason. And the later guys get into their rookie deals, the less value they have unless they have actively shown why their value should increase.
The Jets should bring in one young QB in the room next year. That could be a draft pick. It could be Zach. It could even be a guy like Jordan Love. But whatever young guy we bring in should come in as the backup (or 3rd stringer).
So let's go with that
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 03:36:41 PM
So your 2nd paragraph basically states why we shouldn't go near Jordan Love....
So let's go with that
PBTZ
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 03:38:54 PM
PBTZPlease Bring The Zach?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 03:40:26 PM
Please Bring The Zach?
Probably better than Zach
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 03:42:30 PM
Probably better than ZachYou're better than Zach....and I've never see you throw anything
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 03:43:27 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 03:45:56 PM
So your 2nd paragraph basically states why we shouldn't go near Jordan Love....It depends on the price and how much they value him.
So let's go with that
If they think he can be a legit NFL starting QB, then a Love/Garoppplo room could make sense.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 03:47:17 PM
Jobs are on the line now...the jets aren't going to replace a bum for another question mark.
Unless we land Jackson pretty much any other option is some form of question mark.
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 03:59:12 PM
Unless we land Jackson pretty much any other option is some form of question mark.Now you know why I wanted Zach to figure his excrement out desperately.
There's not alot out there.
I'm actually thinking Minshew might be our best option if we can't get Lamar.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 04:10:21 PM
Now you know why I wanted Zach to figure his excrement out desperately.
There's not alot out there.
I'm actually thinking Minshew might be our best option if we can't get Lamar.
Everyone knew that the options this year were terrible. That's why I wanted Mike White to show enough to be viable as a stopgap.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 04:18:05 PM
Now you know why I wanted Zach to figure his excrement out desperately.Every Jets fan here wanted him to figure it out just as badly as you did.
There's not alot out there.
I'm actually thinking Minshew might be our best option if we can't get Lamar.
Until Thursday, I thought a White/Wilson or Garoppolo/Wilson combo made the most sense on paper if we couldn't get a big name.
That is why it sucks to quit on Zach. But wanting him to be good doesn't lead to anything
Post by: reuben on December 24, 2022, 04:27:40 PM
Unless we land Jackson pretty much any other option is some form of question mark.
I am completely certain that Lamar Jackson and Mike LaFleur would be a disastrous combination. The Ravens have one of the most complex run schemes in the NFL; Mike LaFleur has about four run plays.
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 04:35:07 PM
This is not good logic for giving up more draft capital
Probably
But it's unimaginable for him to suck as much as Zach Wilson.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 04:45:43 PM
This is not good logic for giving up more draft capital
The Jets need a QB
I'd much rather have this team give up a conditional mid round pick for a potential QB then to see the same freaking morons who drafted Zach Wilson attempt to draft another one in the near future
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 04:48:05 PM
I am completely certain that Lamar Jackson and Mike LaFleur would be a disastrous combination. The Ravens have one of the most complex run schemes in the NFL; Mike LaFleur has about four run plays.Then LaFleur would be gone in a year.
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 04:57:03 PM
The Jets need a QBYou have the worst logic on the board.
I'd much rather have this team give up a conditional mid round pick for a potential QB then to see the same freaking morons who drafted Zach Wilson attempt to draft another one in the near future
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 05:07:14 PM
You have the worst logic on the board.
Sorry you're right
We should change this thread title to who can we replace MLF with to make Zach Wilson All Pro
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 05:09:03 PM
Sorry you're rightHow about we change it to "DCM's Xtra chromosome"
We should change this thread title to who can we replace MLF with to make Zach Wilson All Pro
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 05:12:07 PM
I am completely certain that Lamar Jackson and Mike LaFleur would be a disastrous combination. The Ravens have one of the most complex run schemes in the NFL; Mike LaFleur has about four run plays.
I wouldn't be expecting LaFleur back next season.
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 05:14:24 PM
Stop fighting and make up
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 05:14:37 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 24, 2022, 06:25:16 PM
I'll turn this car around right now . No jets for anybody
Even in disaster and complete disarray, jets football is still so much better than no jets football.
Jordan love makes no sense from a financial perspective. We’d be doing the same thing for him we refused to do for Darnold in picking up his option without any clue if he could be good. He hasn’t looked good in any of his opportunities.
I said this yesterday, but it makes so much more sense to keep White given what he’s shown, and go get a guy like Heinecke, Brisset, Trubisky etc to be our #2 and keep our overall QB salary down so we can spend elsewhere to improve the rest of the roster since we won’t be getting a difference maker there barring an absurd set of circumstances with Lamar Jackson.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 06:30:28 PM
Even in disaster and complete disarray, jets football is still so much better than no jets football.
Jordan love makes no sense from a financial perspective. We’d be doing the same thing for him we refused to do for Darnold in picking up his option without any clue if he could be good. He hasn’t looked good in any of his opportunities.
I said this yesterday, but it makes so much more sense to keep White given what he’s shown, and go get a guy like Heinecke, Brisset, Trubisky etc to be our #2 and keep our overall QB salary down so we can spend elsewhere to improve the rest of the roster since we won’t be getting a difference maker there barring an absurd set of circumstances with Lamar Jackson.
If the compensation for Love is low enough, you could simply not do the 5th year option.
Trade a conditional pick for him, something like a 4th to a 2nd (depending on if he's on the roster the following year)
We let him ride, best case scenario he's legit, we tag him, and work out a deal. Giving up a 2nd
Worse case scenario he'd a heaping pile of excrement, we give up a 4th, and maybe we somehow get a comp pick back in return.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 06:34:38 PM
That's why it would be really helpful to get a better idea of White over the last 2 weeks (or longer).
If we really want to keep costs down at QB, we also need to draft someone IMO. We are almost certainly drafting a QB.
So far, the two QBs that Douglas has drafted have drastically underachieved their draft slot. Morgan didn't even make the team in Year 2 as a 4th-round pick, and wasn't even on an NFL practice squad until a few days ago. Wilson is one of the biggest QB busts in recent memory as of now.
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 06:42:19 PM
Kid almost heat the super bowl bucs D which was actually good.
Good enough at QB2 for me
I dunno how much of an upgrade Jimmy g is fromnrhem and he's never healthy
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 06:48:18 PM
I'm fine with white and HeinekeHeinicke stinks. I don't really want him. I think White is better. I think Garoppolo is better. Heinicke should be a clear #2 option behind someone else if he is the option.
Kid almost heat the super bowl bucs D which was actually good.
Good enough at QB2 for me
I dunno how much of an upgrade Jimmy g is fromnrhem and he's never healthy
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 07:17:38 PM
Heinicke stinks. I don't really want him. I think White is better. I think Garoppolo is better. Heinicke should be a clear #2 option behind someone else if he is the option.Lol I said qb2 chill lol
Wouldn't want him leading the roster
Garopollo is a walking injury I'd only mention Jon for system familiarity
Of MLF gets canned then I don't really want him at all
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 07:18:41 PM
Post by: Jumbo on December 24, 2022, 10:02:49 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 10:08:25 PM
Is what the freak do you do with Zach?
Is there a certain value you don't trade him no matter what? (ie you refuse to trade him for less than a 3rd) and if so what the freak do you do with him? Is he even tradeable? Do you consider cutting him under any circumstances?
If your trade demands aren't met then what? Let him be the backup? Or have him be the most expensive 3rd string guy in the league?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 11:06:20 PM
Most important questionThat's a question none of us can really answer. If they are truly done with him, then cutting him outright isn't out of the question. But presumably, there will be some value, even if it's pretty low.
Is what the freak do you do with Zach?
Is there a certain value you don't trade him no matter what? (ie you refuse to trade him for less than a 3rd) and if so what the freak do you do with him? Is he even tradeable? Do you consider cutting him under any circumstances?
If your trade demands aren't met then what? Let him be the backup? Or have him be the most expensive 3rd string guy in the league?
Anyone we bring in, I would like to draft or acquire a young QB to groom behind them, just to take a swing. Maybe you luck into a Dak Prescott.
I don't think it's the most important question at all. Last year, I thought Ekwonu was a strong option at 4 if we got good value for Becton. Without good value for Becton, I was fine taking a shot at another position. This isn't the same scenario. We need to make a decision on who we want competing for the starting QB next year. Zach is likely an afterthought.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 25, 2022, 04:07:20 AM
I mean, we definitely would be in a better spot if we'd stuck with Darnold, because we still might not have a QB but we'd have spent the #2 on either an elite player or a trade to get multiple extra good ones. I get why he chose to move on but in hindsight it was clearly the wrong decision.
It was the right decision but the wrong execution. Darnold will never lead a franchise to the SB. We might have been better with him but he would still suck as he has mostly done with the Panthers. We were in a perfect position to swing for the fences. We missed but the decision process was the right one.
Now trading for Jordan Love is so absolutely moronic that we shouldn’t even waste our time debating it.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 25, 2022, 04:12:11 AM
That's a question none of us can really answer. If they are truly done with him, then cutting him outright isn't out of the question. But presumably, there will be some value, even if it's pretty low.
Anyone we bring in, I would like to draft or acquire a young QB to groom behind them, just to take a swing. Maybe you luck into a Dak Prescott.
I don't think it's the most important question at all. Last year, I thought Ekwonu was a strong option at 4 if we got good value for Becton. Without good value for Becton, I was fine taking a shot at another position. This isn't the same scenario. We need to make a decision on who we want competing for the starting QB next year. Zach is likely an afterthought.
With his dead money hit, there’s no way we’re cutting him.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 25, 2022, 08:00:42 AM
Big mobile QB, sat behind a franchise QB for a while. Played pretty well in the snaps he's had so far. Who knows if he can consistently read defenses, etc.
I really don't know where he fits in the NFL because he'll never start until he gets off that team or Rodgers gets hurt badly. You'd need to see him in multiple games, not just sporadic partial games.
Post by: Johnny English on December 25, 2022, 08:28:17 AM
It was the right decision but the wrong execution. Darnold will never lead a franchise to the SB. We might have been better with him but he would still suck as he has mostly done with the Panthers. We were in a perfect position to swing for the fences. We missed but the decision process was the right one.
The decision process has to be influenced by the possible outcomes. It seems clear at this stage that there was no good QB option available to us in 2021, so the only correct decision was to retain Sam and use the pick on a premium player at a different position where we are deficient - imagine this team with Chase or Sewell as well. Even if Sam had given us nothing more than Wilson the last two seasons, and I'm very confident that with something resembling a functioning coaching staff he'd have exceeded that, we'd be sitting here with every available QB on the market calling their agent and demanding to know what it will take to get signed by the Jets.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 25, 2022, 09:15:34 AM
The decision process has to be influenced by the possible outcomes. It seems clear at this stage that there was no good QB option available to us in 2021, so the only correct decision was to retain Sam and use the pick on a premium player at a different position where we are deficient - imagine this team with Chase or Sewell as well. Even if Sam had given us nothing more than Wilson the last two seasons, and I'm very confident that with something resembling a functioning coaching staff he'd have exceeded that, we'd be sitting here with every available QB on the market calling their agent and demanding to know what it will take to get signed by the Jets.
That makes absolutely no sense. Hindsight is 20/20 they say. What if Sewell gets injured? What if Darnold couldn’t pass to Chase for excrement? Everything always is about the process. You can’t control the outcomes because you can never control all the factors involved, just try that the process is the right one. In this case, it was. You don’t win in this league without a great QB unless EVERYTHING breaks your way. And this has just not happening lately at all for the Jets. It was the right time and spot to get a QB of the supposedly amazing generation of 2020. They fucked up with the name, it sucks, but the process was the right one.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 25, 2022, 09:18:10 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 25, 2022, 09:23:44 AM
The decision process has to be influenced by the possible outcomes. It seems clear at this stage that there was no good QB option available to us in 2021, so the only correct decision was to retain Sam and use the pick on a premium player at a different position where we are deficient - imagine this team with Chase or Sewell as well. Even if Sam had given us nothing more than Wilson the last two seasons, and I'm very confident that with something resembling a functioning coaching staff he'd have exceeded that, we'd be sitting here with every available QB on the market calling their agent and demanding to know what it will take to get signed by the Jets.Or we could have just taken Fields and have a young QB we believe in.
Both with and without hindsight, taking the elite HS QB who turned into an elite college QB with some of the best athletic traits we had ever seen by a QB was probably the right move.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 25, 2022, 10:22:47 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 25, 2022, 10:28:51 AM
I'm not sure it matters what rookie we take until we get things right as an organization.The organization isn't amazing, but if we had a QB, it would look a lot better IMO.
Maybe you argue a QB doesn't develop as well in this system, but the way Zach has played, I don't know how he can succeed in any system right now.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 25, 2022, 10:32:21 AM
The guy wasn't good his 3rd year. But he made solid progress in his second year. And had an absolute abomination of a supporting cast
Giving up on him prematurely was a franchise crippling decision.
I think prematurely trading a 1st round QB who doesn't look like he needs to immediately be out of the nfl, to draft a boom or bust rookie is absolutely freaking retarded and moronic.
If you wanted to get rid of Darnold to trade for a guy like Watson or to sign a UFA like Cousins it's something you can justify. Upgrading the most important position.
But this was pure freaking idiocy, and Joe Douglas deserves an insane amount of blame
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 25, 2022, 10:32:39 AM
I'm not sure it matters what rookie we take until we get things right as an organization.
We’re in the best shape we’ve been in the last 10 years, and I’m not joking at all.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 25, 2022, 10:33:41 AM
Trading Darnold was just a knee-jerk reaction to the Patriots game
The guy wasn't good his 3rd year. But he made solid progress in his second year. And had an absolute abomination of a supporting cast
Giving up on him prematurely was a franchise crippling decision.
I think prematurely trading a 1st round QB who doesn't look like he needs to immediately be out of the nfl, to draft a boom or bust rookie is absolutely freaking retarded and moronic.
If you wanted to get rid of Darnold to trade for a guy like Watson or to sign a UFA like Cousins it's something you can justify. Upgrading the most important position.
But this was pure freaking idiocy, and Joe Douglas deserves an insane amount of blame
Please. Stop. Now.
Post by: MBGreen on December 25, 2022, 10:34:55 AM
Please. Stop. Now.Seconded.
Merry Xmas dcm...but stfu
Post by: dcm1602 on December 25, 2022, 10:35:15 AM
Please. Stop. Now.
Joe Douglas needs to be on notice
Period
-finished
Post by: bojanglesman on December 25, 2022, 10:41:15 AM
Joe Douglas needs to find a QB
Period
-finished
Fyp
Post by: MBGreen on December 25, 2022, 10:41:55 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 25, 2022, 10:45:16 AM
2020 NYJ 2,208 9 11 72.7
2019 NYJ 3,024 19 13 84.3
2018 NYJ 2,865 17 15 77.6
Post by: dcm1602 on December 25, 2022, 11:03:07 AM
The guy wasn't good his 3rd year. But he made solid progress in his second year. And had an absolute abomination of a supporting castCan you explain to me how Darnold was “improving”? At least get your facts straight ffs
2020 NYJ 2,208 9 11 72.7
2019 NYJ 3,024 19 13 84.3
2018 NYJ 2,865 17 15 77.6
If you need me to explain the numbers please let me know
(also you left out completion percentage which went up 4.2% as well)
Post by: delavan on December 25, 2022, 11:06:13 AM
Please. Stop. Now.Lol
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Fentanyl_lollipops_Actiq_400_mcg.jpg/283px-Fentanyl_lollipops_Actiq_400_mcg.jpg)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/02014._Weihnachtsschaufenster_in_Sanok.JPG/173px-02014._Weihnachtsschaufenster_in_Sanok.JPG)
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 25, 2022, 11:49:22 AM
Sam was bad in Year 3. How many years are you supposed to give a guy on the off chance he works out?
If you need me to explain the numbers please let me know
(also you left out completion percentage which went up 4.2% as well)
He has been good this year, but the Panthers entire offense is based on running the ball. His passing volume is very low. When we ran the ball successfully, even Zach looked solid this year.
When Carolina tried to make him their main starter, they benched him, too.
Sam is an option to bring back as a backup with potential but he can't be the primary option.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 25, 2022, 11:56:30 AM
Sam was bad in Year 3. How many years are you supposed to give a guy on the off chance he works out?
He has been good this year, but the Panthers entire offense is based on running the ball. His passing volume is very low. When we ran the ball successfully, even Zach looked solid this year.
When Carolina tried to make him their main starter, they benched him, too.
Sam is an option to bring back as a backup with potential but he can't be the primary option.
He was bad in year 3
We also had possibly the worst coaching staff in the league, the 2nd worst recrod in the league, and were a strong candidate for worst roster in the league.
Sam highly likely would never have been a long term solution.
But he showed enoguh that it wouldn't have been unreasonable to roll with him.
I think if we had the 1st overall pick for Lawrence the Sam gamble would've been right, going for a generational talent.
Instead here we are.
It's Christmas I'm not gonna be annoying all day.
Have a great one
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 25, 2022, 12:14:09 PM
He was bad in year 3You're good dude. Merry Christmas.
We also had possibly the worst coaching staff in the league, the 2nd worst recrod in the league, and were a strong candidate for worst roster in the league.
Sam highly likely would never have been a long term solution.
But he showed enoguh that it wouldn't have been unreasonable to roll with him.
I think if we had the 1st overall pick for Lawrence the Sam gamble would've been right, going for a generational talent.
Instead here we are.
It's Christmas I'm not gonna be annoying all day.
Have a great one
I think Fields and Wilson were both just as good or better prospects than Sam. I dont think Sam was generational.
You don't get too many chances at high picks when you need a QB. Look at us now
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 25, 2022, 02:06:40 PM
Sam highly likely would never have been a long term solution.
This. Merry Christmas.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 25, 2022, 06:03:50 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 25, 2022, 06:05:20 PM
Zach is still cheap the next two years. If we are moving him (and assuming Rodgers is staying in Green Bay), I'd talk to the Packers about doing a swap for Love.Why would GB do that?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 25, 2022, 06:11:32 PM
Why would GB do that?
Because they might believe that they can groom Zach to replace Rodgers.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not necessarily suggesting a straight swap. We'd likely have to include a pick or two to make the trade worth the Packers while but the speculation is that, with Love going into year 4, they're going to move him if Rodgers stays.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 25, 2022, 06:12:49 PM
Because they might believe that they can groom Zach to replace Rodgers.And an extra year under contract.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 25, 2022, 06:21:06 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 25, 2022, 06:25:21 PM
The idea of going into 2023 with a White/Love tandem is appealing to me because we should be getting adequate starting quarterback performance with the upside for more without incurring the high-dollar, multi-year commitment other veteran options like Jimmy G and Carr would require. We would use 2023 as an evaluation year where if either of the guys hit we can extend him and, if not, we can look to draft a quarterback in 2024.Well I think we draft a QB. Need to have a young guy in the room. If they choose Love over a draft pick, makes sense.
I've been asked so many times what they do at QB. I have no idea
Post by: Libero_2 on December 25, 2022, 06:31:54 PM
Well I think we draft a QB. Need to have a young guy in the room. If they choose Love over a draft pick, makes sense.
I've been asked so many times what they do at QB. I have no idea
The reason no one has any idea is because there are no good options. Only a variety of gambles. Somebody is going to gamble and be right, and look like a freaking genius, but most people are going to gamble wrong and look like complete morons. We just have to hope that we either gamble right, or gamble so wrong, that we are in a perfect position to just take a top QB prospect in 2024.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 25, 2022, 07:15:08 PM
Will Levis is super overrated right now but using a late second rounder on him makes sense if he can sit and develop
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 25, 2022, 07:42:20 PM
Jimmy G/Mike White plus a rookie outside of the first round is my ideal QB room in 2023 if we can’t swing a trade for LamarI think that is the most likely scenario and probably the best one.
Will Levis is super overrated right now but using a late second rounder on him makes sense if he can sit and develop
Post by: Johnny English on December 25, 2022, 07:48:36 PM
Post by: Coach K on December 25, 2022, 07:53:58 PM
Joe Douglas needs to be on noticeNo
Period
-finished
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 25, 2022, 07:54:12 PM
I'll go with Hartman because apparently I love QBs called Sam and because he's too dreamy to not be a winner.
Brady Quinn
Post by: Coach K on December 25, 2022, 07:54:53 PM
Jimmy G/Mike White plus a rookie outside of the first round is my ideal QB room in 2023 if we can’t swing a trade for LamarThis
Will Levis is super overrated right now but using a late second rounder on him makes sense if he can sit and develop
Post by: delavan on December 26, 2022, 09:24:32 AM
https://twitter.com/TheDougRush/status/1606394457661874176
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2022, 01:32:41 PM
I'll go with Hartman because apparently I love QBs called Sam and because he's too dreamy to not be a winner.
I don’t think he’s entering the draft
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2022, 01:33:15 PM
Lisa Lisa
https://twitter.com/TheDougRush/status/1606394457661874176
We have the worst fanbase in the league
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2022, 01:39:42 PM
He’s much more of a late round developmental backup though
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 26, 2022, 02:29:31 PM
Jake Haener is a solid fit in our current scheme
He’s much more of a late round developmental backup though
Hopefully we're close to him being a.great fit for a previous scheme
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2022, 03:11:38 PM
Hopefully we're close to him being a.great fit for a previous scheme
That would be ideal
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2022, 03:52:27 PM
Jake Haener is a solid fit in our current schemeI know you love your Fresno guys....but I love Haener's moxie. Haven't really evaluated him as much as an NFL prospect. But he has always been a guy I liked to watch.
He’s much more of a late round developmental backup though
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2022, 04:02:55 PM
I know you love your Fresno guys....but I love Haener's moxie. Haven't really evaluated him as much as an NFL prospect. But he has always been a guy I liked to watch.
He’s undersized but he’s tough as hell and he takes care of the football
Kind of reminds me of a shorter Mike White
Post by: Libero_2 on December 26, 2022, 05:48:00 PM
He’s undersized but he’s tough as hell and he takes care of the football
Kind of reminds me of a shorter Mike White
Isn’t that roughly a description of Hartman of Wake Forest? Small dude, brainy, competitive, probably lacks NFL arm talent to be a serious starting caliber QB? Which of course is the reason I think he will go back to Wake for like an 8th season to scoop up as much NiL money as he can
Post by: reuben on December 26, 2022, 06:52:25 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2022, 07:11:59 PM
Isn’t that roughly a description of Hartman of Wake Forest? Small dude, brainy, competitive, probably lacks NFL arm talent to be a serious starting caliber QB? Which of course is the reason I think he will go back to Wake for like an 8th season to scoop up as much NiL money as he can
I think he'll end up at Notre Dame
Hartman and Haener are very similar prospects
Post by: Libero_2 on December 26, 2022, 07:28:16 PM
I think he'll end up at Notre Dame
Hartman and Haener are very similar prospects
Hartman does feel very Ian Bookish so ND makes sense. Freeman needs to have a hell of a season or else he will be out at ND quickly. They won’t be a patient program
Post by: dcm1602 on December 26, 2022, 08:49:52 PM
Quote
Dan Leberfeld
One factor that has probably contributed to the inconsistent quality of play in the NFL this season are the restrictions on spring and summer work in practices. It's hurt the development of players and fundamentals.
December 26, 2022 9:09pm EST
Makes you wonder how big of a factor this has been since covid not with Zach in particular, but young guys across the league
Post by: bojanglesman on December 26, 2022, 08:54:06 PM
Makes you wonder how big of a factor this has been since covid not with Zach in particular, but young guys across the leagueWhispersssss
Post by: Jumbo on December 26, 2022, 08:55:41 PM
Makes you wonder how big of a factor this has been since covid not with Zach in particular, but young guys across the league
In general rookies are integrated into teams quicker than ever before, haven't seen that slow down much. Only real example I can think of who may have broken in earlier is Justin Jefferson but that was the year with literally no preseason.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 09:36:44 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 01, 2023, 09:41:36 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 01, 2023, 11:17:56 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 01, 2023, 11:21:08 AM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1609520645628637184?t=hQgqT1JP2sf6oVxgh4s_5g&s=19
no matter what the true situation is, we have to say this about wilson.
he has zero trade value after some of the performances he's put up this season and after being benched twice. being open about not having zach in our plans hamstrings us even further with regards to potential compensation for any suitors.
in the likely event that we don't find the value we want in a trade, so long as he is on the team we should still be trying to improve him as well.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 11:22:39 AM
no matter what the true situation is, we have to say this about wilson.If we're going to continue to develop him, we better upgrade the offensive coaching staff.
he has zero trade value after some of the performances he's put up this season and after being benched twice. being open about not having zach in our plans hamstrings us even further with regards to potential compensation for any suitors.
in the likely event that we don't find the value we want in a trade, so long as he is on the team we should still be trying to improve him as well.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 01, 2023, 11:22:57 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2023, 03:24:48 PM
Year 8
Post by: MBGreen on January 02, 2023, 03:56:28 PM
More on Wilson: Saleh says there are "so many" ex-Jets having success elsewhere, so: "If there's any franchise that should recognize that, 'Hey, maybe we should give these young men a little bit of time,' it's this organization." #Jets
Year 8
Couple more years of 5 wide empty sets and shitty RZ playcalls...will certainly change the narrative on Zach. #SpinWheelsSZN
Post by: dcm1602 on January 02, 2023, 04:02:20 PM
More on Wilson: Saleh says there are "so many" ex-Jets having success elsewhere, so: "If there's any franchise that should recognize that, 'Hey, maybe we should give these young men a little bit of time,' it's this organization." #Jets
Year 8
freaking hypocrites considering they dumped Darnold to draft a future arena football champ
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 04:08:55 PM
More on Wilson: Saleh says there are "so many" ex-Jets having success elsewhere, so: "If there's any franchise that should recognize that, 'Hey, maybe we should give these young men a little bit of time,' it's this organization." #JetsBring back LaFleur and Wilson then. Eventually they will be good. Or they won't.
Year 8
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 08:34:05 AM
https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1609724325195546625?s=19
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 09:47:01 AM
I would take the Darnold package, but his value is lower than Darnold’s
At a certain point, I would rather keep Zach and try to fix him. I’m not sure a 4th rounder does anything for me for a guy that was the #2 pick about 5 minutes ago
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 09:49:51 AM
What are we getting back for Wilson in a trade?
Harbaugh fixed Alex Smith. He's probably our only hope if we keep Wilson.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 03, 2023, 09:50:05 AM
What are we getting back for Wilson in a trade?Late rounder.
I would take the Darnold package, but his value is lower than Darnold’s
At a certain point, I would rather keep Zach and try to fix him. I’m not sure a 4th rounder does anything for me for a guy that was the #2 pick about 5 minutes ago
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 09:50:24 AM
What are we getting back for Wilson in a trade?
I would take the Darnold package, but his value is lower than Darnold’s
At a certain point, I would rather keep Zach and try to fix him. I’m not sure a 4th rounder does anything for me for a guy that was the #2 pick about 5 minutes ago
I need to see how the coaching landscape shakes out before i can even think about what to do with our roster.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 03, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
What are we getting back for Wilson in a trade?
I would take the Darnold package, but his value is lower than Darnold’s
At a certain point, I would rather keep Zach and try to fix him. I’m not sure a 4th rounder does anything for me for a guy that was the #2 pick about 5 minutes ago
Darnold was going into year 4 Zach is going into year 3
From a contract perspective that's a huge difference gives a team a full year to evaluate him in their system before having to even consider the 5th year option.
I don't think we'll get a 2nd for Zach. But Arizona was able to get what a 2nd and 5th for Rosen?
My guess is the floor for Zach is a 3rd round pick, and Id bet we'd ultimately get a 3rd + something else
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 10:55:34 AM
What are we getting back for Wilson in a trade?
9 pogs + a slammer
Ken Dorsey rookie card with a corner missing
1 pudding cup
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 10:58:21 AM
9 pogs + a slammer
Ken Dorsey rookie card with a corner missing
1 pudding cup
Chocolate? Butterscotch?
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 10:58:37 AM
9 pogs + a slammer
Ken Dorsey rookie card with a corner missing
1 pudding cup
If it isn't Alf pogs, we walk away.
Also the pudding cup better be swirl, no one is trying to get a vanilla pudding cup...
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 11:00:30 AM
Darnold was going into year 4 Zach is going into year 3I think Rosen and Darnold had easier ways to excuse their poor play. Darnold had an awful supporting cast. Rosen had 1 year with an awful supporting cast. The Jets don't have an elite offense, but it's been better than what they had.
From a contract perspective that's a huge difference gives a team a full year to evaluate him in their system before having to even consider the 5th year option.
I don't think we'll get a 2nd for Zach. But Arizona was able to get what a 2nd and 5th for Rosen?
My guess is the floor for Zach is a 3rd round pick, and Id bet we'd ultimately get a 3rd + something else
Really hard to gauge his value. If we get a 3rd, that may be hard to decline depending on how they view Zach
Post by: dcm1602 on January 03, 2023, 11:03:10 AM
I think Rosen and Darnold had easier ways to excuse their poor play. Darnold had an awful supporting cast. Rosen had 1 year with an awful supporting cast. The Jets don't have an elite offense, but it's been better than what they had.
Really hard to gauge his value. If we get a 3rd, that may be hard to decline depending on how they view Zach
I think Zach is absolutely freaking terrible
But Rosen got traded and he was so bad he was basically unplayable.
I don't expect Zach to be good, but I think he will be capable of actually playing some football.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Zach is out of the league by the end of his rookie deal
But I do think a 3rd will be the hard line for Zach. Less than that and it's difficult to justify trading him
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 11:09:36 AM
I think Zach is absolutely freaking terrible
But Rosen got traded and he was so bad he was basically unplayable.
I don't expect Zach to be good, but I think he will be capable of actually playing some football.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Zach is out of the league by the end of his rookie deal
But I do think a 3rd will be the hard line for Zach. Less than that and it's difficult to justify trading him
Zach will be awesome...you'll learn to love him like a son.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 11:20:58 AM
9 pogs + a slammer
as long as it's an 8-ball slammer
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 11:25:47 AM
as long as it's an 8-ball slammer
I like that every one of us old heads got excited when he mentioned pogs+slammers.
I want the 3D skull slammer or I'm heading out.
(https://i.imgur.com/RSNJtZ2.jpg)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 11:26:05 AM
9 pogs + a slammer
Ken Dorsey rookie card with a corner missing
1 pudding cup
10 Sam Darnold Rookie Cards
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 11:32:43 AM
Chocolate? Butterscotch?
If it isn't Alf pogs, we walk away.For the record the pudding cup is plain chocolate.
Also the pudding cup better be swirl, no one is trying to get a vanilla pudding cup...
10 Sam Darnold Rookie CardsFun fact: I included the Dorsey rookie card because that's something I actually owned. Might still have it somewhere. It was in a pack with Calvin Pace and William Joseph.
Post by: reuben on January 03, 2023, 12:17:54 PM
If it isn't Alf pogs, we walk away.
Remember Alf? He's back, in pog form.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 03, 2023, 01:51:30 PM
Remember Alf? He's back, in pog form.
spaghetti and moe-balls.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 03, 2023, 02:14:45 PM
What are we getting back for Wilson in a trade?
I would take the Darnold package, but his value is lower than Darnold’s
At a certain point, I would rather keep Zach and try to fix him. I’m not sure a 4th rounder does anything for me for a guy that was the #2 pick about 5 minutes ago
At best, a $5 Biggie Bag and a small Frosty
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 02:17:42 PM
At best, a $5 Biggie Bag and a small Frosty
Throw in the Wendy's coupon book and we are good.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:49:18 PM
If I told you last offseason, pre-draft, that Wilson wouldn’t be ready to start his rookie year, would you still trade Darnold and spend the #2 pick on Wilson?
I was mostly fine with the plan mainly on the basis of resetting the rookie QB contract and seeing if someone else would work out since Darnold didn’t look great.
But the idea was also that Wilson would be a clear upgrade on Darnold. That hasn’t looked the case so far and if he really wasn’t ready to start, then that might have made me rethink my asset management.
I still would have taken the trade for Darnold, that was great value. But nailing the QB of the future was more important and right now they’re trending in opposite directions. Albeit in different points in their careers, which could be the biggest factor.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 12:50:05 PM
If I told you last offseason, pre-draft, that Wilson wouldn’t be ready to start his rookie year, would you still trade Darnold and spend the #2 pick on Wilson?
Yes, but veteran starter would need to be better than Joe Flacco.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:51:29 PM
Yes, but veteran starter would need to be better than Joe Flacco.
Ok I agree. Someone to effectively run the offense to at least give Wilson an idea of what it should look like. Flacco was not a real option to do that.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 12:57:19 PM
Ok I agree. Someone to effectively run the offense to at least give Wilson an idea of what it should look like. Flacco was not a real option to do that.
we didn't have many options but Andy Dalton would've likely been a better bridge QB
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2023, 01:27:11 PM
Hypothetical:Are you also telling me that Trey Lance and Justin Fields aren't ready to start right away? I assume Lance wouldn't be, but I thought Fields and Wilson were similar-caliber prospects, so if I thought Fields could start right away, I would just take him.
If I told you last offseason, pre-draft, that Wilson wouldn’t be ready to start his rookie year, would you still trade Darnold and spend the #2 pick on Wilson?
I was mostly fine with the plan mainly on the basis of resetting the rookie QB contract and seeing if someone else would work out since Darnold didn’t look great.
But the idea was also that Wilson would be a clear upgrade on Darnold. That hasn’t looked the case so far and if he really wasn’t ready to start, then that might have made me rethink my asset management.
I still would have taken the trade for Darnold, that was great value. But nailing the QB of the future was more important and right now they’re trending in opposite directions. Albeit in different points in their careers, which could be the biggest factor.
Hard hypothetical to answer though. Darnold didn't earn the 5th-year option based on his play, and the 2022 class didn't look good on paper, so I was fine resetting regardless I think.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 02:11:29 PM
so if I thought Fields could start right away, I would just take him.
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1611009470456385538?s=20&t=qXzfmxnvwkhmiKYhOQd8vw
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 02:54:56 PM
Are you also telling me that Trey Lance and Justin Fields aren't ready to start right away? I assume Lance wouldn't be, but I thought Fields and Wilson were similar-caliber prospects, so if I thought Fields could start right away, I would just take him.
Hard hypothetical to answer though. Darnold didn't earn the 5th-year option based on his play, and the 2022 class didn't look good on paper, so I was fine resetting regardless I think.
It depends on the roster situation. If the 49ers drafted Fields, it’s pretty likely he would have sat just like Lance did. Due to Jimmy G.
I think the Jets viewed Wilson as a day 1 starter. I think we all did.
Post by: Johnny English on January 05, 2023, 03:00:41 PM
It depends on the roster situation. If the 49ers drafted Fields, it’s pretty likely he would have sat just like Lance did. Due to Jimmy G.
I think the Jets viewed Wilson as a day 1 starter. I think we all did.
We all knew he was going to be, I think there were still significant misgivings among many as to whether he could or should be.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 05, 2023, 03:06:56 PM
We all knew he was going to be, I think there were still significant misgivings among many as to whether he could or should be.
It's not like they put together a QB room that actually supported him, so it might as well have been.
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:36:11 PM
More on Wilson: Saleh says there are "so many" ex-Jets having success elsewhere, so: "If there's any franchise that should recognize that, 'Hey, maybe we should give these young men a little bit of time,' it's this organization." #JetsSaleh should be slapped for this . This puts him up there with online mouth breathers saying we gave up on Geno too soon
Year 8
Post by: dcm1602 on January 05, 2023, 08:51:37 PM
Saleh should be slapped for this . This puts him up there with online mouth breathers saying we gave up on Geno too soon
It means literally nothing whnw he gave up on Darnold to draft Wilson.
If he believed the concept fine I could respect that. But you can't talk out both sides of your mouth
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:57:06 PM
It means literally nothing whnw he gave up on Darnold to draft Wilson.He may have not had a choice . I'm not gonna pretend to know what actually happened behind closed doors there
If he believed the concept fine I could respect that. But you can't talk out both sides of your mouth
But just deflecting on why you couldn't develop or show any improvement is weak
But then again they can't be honest lol .
Either way the hot seat has his name on it
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 06, 2023, 10:23:35 AM
Saleh should be slapped for this . This puts him up there with online mouth breathers saying we gave up on Geno too soon
We did give up on Geno too soon, unless you think drafting Hackenberg and signing McCown because we couldn’t find anyone better was the right move
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2023, 10:50:48 AM
We did give up on Geno too soon
He was done here as soon as IK finished following through
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 06, 2023, 10:51:11 AM
He was done here as soon as IK finished following through
I agree lol
He would have cooked that year tho
Post by: delavan on January 06, 2023, 01:40:03 PM
Zach Wilson was benched for Mike White and was a healthy inactive
Zach Wilson was benched mid game for Chris Streveler
Zach Wilson was benched again for Mike White who had 4 broken ribs
Zach Wilson was benched for 62 year old Flacco
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 06, 2023, 02:51:44 PM
“I was told by someone close to ownership that Zach Wilson is definitely coming back next year.”
Kay adds that #Jets owner Woody Johnson and Zach Wilson’s family have a close relationship which could be why Wilson remains on the team
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2023, 04:01:27 PM
Michael Kay on @TMKSESPN
“I was told by someone close to ownership that Zach Wilson is definitely coming back next year.”
Kay adds that #Jets owner Woody Johnson and Zach Wilson’s family have a close relationship which could be why Wilson remains on the team
He's under contract and it's fully guaranteed. He should come back and he should have to compete to be the backup.
Post by: Johnny English on January 06, 2023, 04:15:14 PM
Michael Kay on @TMKSESPN
“I was told by someone close to ownership that Zach Wilson is definitely coming back next year.”
Kay adds that #Jets owner Woody Johnson and Zach Wilson’s family have a close relationship which could be why Wilson remains on the team
Lisa Wilson is blowing Woody in his sky box on game day confirmed.
Post by: Badger on January 06, 2023, 04:29:23 PM
We did give up on Geno too soon, unless you think drafting Hackenberg and signing McCown because we couldn’t find anyone better was the right moveGeno had four years to try and not suck here.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2023, 04:30:39 PM
Lisa Wilson is blowing Woody in his sky box on game day confirmed.
Michael* Wilson
Post by: bojanglesman on January 06, 2023, 04:35:40 PM
Lisa Wilson is blowing Woody in his sky box on game day confirmed."...Lisa Wilson now in at quarterback"
Post by: Coach K on January 06, 2023, 05:34:57 PM
"...Lisa Wilson now in at quarterback"SBTZ
Post by: dcm1602 on January 06, 2023, 05:44:32 PM
He's under contract and it's fully guaranteed. He should come back and he should have to compete to be the backup.
Well I don't think there was ever a serious discussion about cutting him.
I think it's a matter of would the Jets keep Zach or trade him?
His value might not be good, but he's 100% tradeable
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 07, 2023, 12:15:01 AM
We need a real QB coach and a real veteran presence to push him and take the reins if he’s not ready to start.
Fire MLF and start from scratch there too if you can. I need to see a clear upgrade though. I generally care less about coaching than most people here, and think MLF probably can be an average OC if he had average QB play.
I’m not confident they’ll make a move that drastic. Saleh did show some ability to make a hard call by benching Zach midseason so maybe it’s possible.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2023, 01:12:44 AM
I still think Wilson can turn his career around but he basically needs to start from square 1.I really think Wilson could be a lot like Geno and figure it out later in his career. Hell, even Darnold looked better this year in Year 5. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
We need a real QB coach and a real veteran presence to push him and take the reins if he’s not ready to start.
Fire MLF and start from scratch there too if you can. I need to see a clear upgrade though. I generally care less about coaching than most people here, and think MLF probably can be an average OC if he had average QB play.
I’m not confident they’ll make a move that drastic. Saleh did show some ability to make a hard call by benching Zach midseason so maybe it’s possible.
Saleh has a tough decision to make. LaFleur's body of work could easily get him fired. I don't think he's as bad as some on this board, but he hasn't been good enough. Saleh's seat heats up next year, so it's hard to start over with a new OC when your job has some heat under it. But it's also hard to stick with LaFleur.
If you stick with LaFleur, it's because you think the QB play has been so bad it's impossible for the offense to be good. I think that can be true, but it's not good to have a young QB fail like Zach under his watch.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 07, 2023, 01:13:31 AM
I still think Wilson can turn his career around but he basically needs to start from square 1.
We need a real QB coach and a real veteran presence to push him and take the reins if he’s not ready to start.
100 percent agree.
The fact that the offensive coordinator came out and admitted this week that they played him before he was ready is a pretty big indicator that this kid hasn't and isn't being coached correctly.
It's like this staff didn't realize even more important than wins and losses these first two years was doing absolutely everything they could to see the #2 overall pick/supposed savior/franchise quarterback reach his full potential. They've failed miserably in that regard.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2023, 01:28:29 AM
100 percent agree.We entered 2021 with Mike White and James Morgan as the only other quarterbacks on the roster, and Morgan didn't even make it to Week 1.
The fact that the offensive coordinator came out and admitted this week that they played him before he was ready is a pretty big indicator that this kid hasn't and isn't being coached correctly.
It's like this staff didn't realize even more important than wins and losses these first two years was doing absolutely everything they could to see the #2 overall pick/supposed savior/franchise quarterback reach his full potential. They've failed miserably in that regard.
It was a full organizational decision to roll with Wilson from Day 1. We can blame the staff, but when the only other QB on the roster is a journeyman in White with zero career pass attempts under his belt, I can't give the staff all the blame.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 07, 2023, 01:36:05 AM
We entered 2021 with Mike White and James Morgan as the only other quarterbacks on the roster, and Morgan didn't even make it to Week 1.
It was a full organizational decision to roll with Wilson from Day 1. We can blame the staff, but when the only other QB on the roster is a journeyman in White with zero career pass attempts under his belt, I can't give the staff all the blame.
That's a fair criticism of Joe D
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 12:51:52 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 07, 2023, 01:23:31 PM
https://twitter.com/DrewfromJersey/status/1611793941229178882?t=El7NeZ-12p5grlLPXYKMrw&s=19
Comparing Trevor Lawrence’s first half of the 2022 season to any stretch in Wilson’s career is laughable
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 01:28:19 PM
Comparing Trevor Lawrence’s first half of the 2022 season to any stretch in Wilson’s career is laughableI wasn't comparing seasons. I was interested in the fact TLaw admitted he lost his confidence and a coaching change repaired it.
Kinda like what I've been saying for months we need to do with Zach before writing him off as a bust.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 07, 2023, 01:57:05 PM
We entered 2021 with Mike White and James Morgan as the only other quarterbacks on the roster, and Morgan didn't even make it to Week 1.
It was a full organizational decision to roll with Wilson from Day 1. We can blame the staff, but when the only other QB on the roster is a journeyman in White with zero career pass attempts under his belt, I can't give the staff all the blame.
I can blame them plenty for their role in putting that roster together in the first place.
Post by: Jumbo on January 07, 2023, 09:18:51 PM
Michael Kay on @TMKSESPN
“I was told by someone close to ownership that Zach Wilson is definitely coming back next year.”
Kay adds that #Jets owner Woody Johnson and Zach Wilson’s family have a close relationship which could be why Wilson remains on the team
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/1065xk5/zws_mom_on_ig/
lol @ NYC media
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 07, 2023, 11:29:12 PM
i don't see how any amount of time or soul searching will ever be able to help him read/analyze a defense pre-snap, remember the play and routes, not freeze or freak out at the first hint of an approaching defender, and go through his progressions in a timely enough fashion to get a throw off, all the while remembering to maintain basic quarterback mechanics/footwork enough to deliver the ball where he intends to deliver it
there are too many blocks there to get through
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 09:27:10 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 09:32:48 AM
Why and how did Alex Smith go from 1 TD 11 INT in his rookie year to being a good QB?They kept firing OCs and HCs until they found a fit.
The giants did the same thing with Daniel Jones.
Post by: Coach K on January 08, 2023, 09:55:58 AM
Why and how did Alex Smith go from 1 TD 11 INT in his rookie year to being a good QB?What mb said they finally found coaching lol
We will one day.
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2023, 12:00:35 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 12:02:03 PM
There really isn't any comparing Alex Smith and Zach Wilson, if that's what you're trying to do. Smith was always a fundamentally sound player, Wilson's issues are very different.Smith was brutal his first few seasons in the league.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 12:17:55 PM
There really isn't any comparing Alex Smith and Zach Wilson, if that's what you're trying to do. Smith was always a fundamentally sound player, Wilson's issues are very different.Smith was awful early in his career. I don't remember his specific issues necessarily, but he averaged 4.7 YPA in his 3rd season.
But again, is the plan to wait 7 years into the guy's career until he becomes an average QB?
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2023, 12:19:05 PM
Smith was awful early in his career. I don't remember his specific issues necessarily, but he averaged 4.7 YPA in his 3rd season.
But again, is the plan to wait 7 years into the guy's career until he becomes an average QB?
Never doubt the great work Alex Smith did for reconstructive surgery.
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2023, 12:23:08 PM
Smith was brutal his first few seasons in the league.
Smith was awful early in his career. I don't remember his specific issues necessarily, but he averaged 4.7 YPA in his 3rd season.
But again, is the plan to wait 7 years into the guy's career until he becomes an average QB?
I didn't say Smith was good, I said that it's a bad comparison with Zach's issues. Smith wasn't panicking in the pocket and throwing brain numbing interceptions multiple times a game.
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 12:30:01 PM
There really isn't any comparing Alex Smith and Zach Wilson, if that's what you're trying to do. Smith was always a fundamentally sound player, Wilson's issues are very different.Fundamentally sound 1:11 ratio
I'm calling bs if anyone here claims they can remember what Smith's footwork looked like in 2005.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 12:30:28 PM
I didn't say Smith was good, I said that it's a bad comparison with Zach's issues. Smith wasn't panicking in the pocket and throwing brain numbing interceptions multiple times a game.Aaron Rodgers and Zach have the same amount of INTs this season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 12:39:59 PM
Fundamentally sound 1:11 ratioSpeak for yourself. I have photographic memory of Alex Smith's footwork and fundamentals from 2005-07.
I'm calling bs if anyone here claims they can remember what Smith's footwork looked like in 2005.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 08, 2023, 12:43:51 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 12:46:22 PM
Looking back, it's pretty remarkable the Niners stuck with Smith as long as they did. That would never happen today.He had 3 offensive coordinators in his first 3 seasons, which also didn't help. IIRC, he was in and out of the lineup in his first and third seasons with injuries and benchings for poor play.
They were going to cut him, but he restructured his deal. He probably had a little more leverage given the old NFL rookie contracts.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 12:50:39 PM
He had 3 offensive coordinators in his first 3 seasons, which also didn't help. IIRC, he was in and out of the lineup in his first and third seasons with injuries and benchings for poor play.You mean Alex Smith wasnt developing when Singletary was dropping his pants during lockeroom speeches?
They were going to cut him, but he restructured his deal. He probably had a little more leverage given the old NFL rookie contracts.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2023, 12:53:01 PM
You mean Alex Smith wasnt developing when Singletary was dropping his pants during lockeroom speeches?
"My TE is a hoo-ha" just wasn't the teaching tool he wanted it to be.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2023, 01:19:13 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 01:22:56 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 09, 2023, 01:58:50 PM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
Zach Wilson said he wants to be with the #Jets but acknowledged it’s out of his control.
Said he’s willing to compete to be the starting QB if he has to.
He's kidding right? "IF" he has to? Of course you do...you absolutely sucked.
I didn't hear the quote...could be Zack being a douche in his tweet.
But if that's really what Wilson said, he's lost.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 01:59:55 PM
He's kidding right? "IF" he has to? Of course you do...you absolutely sucked.
I didn't hear the quote...could be Zack being a douche in his tweet.
But if that's really what Wilson said, he's lost.
He said he's ready to destroy whomever they bring in to compete with him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 02:01:08 PM
He said he's ready to destroy whomever they bring in to compete with him.
That's actually hilarious.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 02:01:54 PM
That's actually hilarious.
If MLF is gone...i'll start to believe again.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 09, 2023, 02:02:40 PM
Quote
Zach Wilson on if the Jets sign a veteran QB and declare that player the starter, how he’ll handle that: “I’m gonna make that dudes life hell” and show #Jets coaches he deserves to play.
This made me laugh
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2023, 02:03:32 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 02:05:04 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 02:09:10 PM
that's a perfect answer
It would be if it was believable
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 02:10:11 PM
It would be if it was believable
"What will I do if the Jets sign a veteran QB? Probably just give up."
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 02:10:35 PM
that's a perfect answer
I thought so too
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 02:11:03 PM
It would be if it was believable
Zach only here to make-a da pizza
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 02:16:03 PM
Zach only here to make-a da pizza
If it doesn't work out here I'm sure he'll have a great future investigating civil rights groups for the FBI.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 02:17:26 PM
If it doesn't work out here I'm sure he'll have a great future investigating civil rights groups for the FBI.
haha
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 09, 2023, 04:21:25 PM
Quote
Mike Garafolo
#Jets GM Joe Douglas: “We’ve never been a team that gives up on talent early and we all know the talent Zach (Wilson) possesses.”
I hope this is nothing more than posturing
Post by: dcm1602 on January 09, 2023, 04:27:03 PM
I hope this is nothing more than posturing
Of course it is
See Sam Darnold
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2023, 04:30:23 PM
I hope this is nothing more than posturing
The sooner you accept that both Zach Wilson and Matt Lafleur will be back next season and move on with your life, the happier you'll be as a person.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 04:30:55 PM
Of course it isHe didn't draft Sam. We've seen mixed results on Douglas with his own picks. He's held on to some guys too long (Davis, Mann). But he also cut Pinnock when we could probably have used him.
See Sam Darnold
Post by: reuben on January 09, 2023, 04:40:26 PM
Quote
Zach Wilson on if the Jets sign a veteran QB and declare that player the starter, how he’ll handle that: “I’m gonna bang that dudes mom” and show #Jets coaches he deserves to bang moms.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2023, 11:37:19 AM
I hope this is nothing more than posturing
What’s the point on giving up on ZW other than to appease angry Jets fans?
We’re not likely to get anything worthwhile back in a trade and we don’t currently have a solution at QB.
If this was the Darnold situation and we had a top pick and were staring at a loaded QB class, then I would agree.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 10, 2023, 11:47:57 AM
The sooner you accept that both Zach Wilson and Matt Lafleur will be back next season and move on with your life, the happier you'll be as a person.
I'd be fine to have them both back...as long as Zach is the backup and MLF is doing the teams laundry
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2023, 08:32:35 AM
Quote
According to ProFootballFocus, Wilson’s passing grade (43.1) ranked 41st of 41 qualifying quarterbacks — those who played at least 20 percent of their team’s offensive snaps.
PFF never misses
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 08:37:40 AM
Alex Smith popped into my head, but idk if his stats were as poor as Zach's.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:40:37 AM
Has there been a situation where a QB drafted in the top 5 was absolutely horrendous, benched several times, and actually turned out to be a decent QB?
Alex Smith popped into my head, but idk if his stats were as poor as Zach's.
Alex Smith was awful before Jim Harbaugh showed up in San Francisco. His first and third seasons were about as bad as it gets.
He's the best comparison to Wilson. Similar skillset.
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 08:45:00 AM
Has there been a situation where a QB drafted in the top 5 was absolutely horrendous, benched several times, and actually turned out to be a decent QB?His rookie season was 1 TD and 11 INT. His 2nd season was slightly better than Zach.
Alex Smith popped into my head, but idk if his stats were as poor as Zach's.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:52:50 AM
But he also cut Pinnock when we could probably have used him.
What if this came down to coach evaluations?
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 12, 2023, 08:58:15 AM
What if this came down to coach evaluations?
Yea, I can't believe that Douglas was cutting players without coaching input.
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 02:18:36 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 02:48:38 PM
https://twitter.com/Scott_Spratt/status/1615437984051994624
It's alright, we can have the second most inaccurate QB for 3 1sts and a quarter billion dollars
Post by: Heismanberg on January 17, 2023, 02:51:20 PM
I'm sure Brandon Staley is sifting through these numbers though
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 02:57:30 PM
It's alright, we can have the second most inaccurate QB for 3 1sts and a quarter billion dollarsJosh Allen is on that list too.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 02:58:22 PM
Of course in this case it's irrelevant since everyone knows Zach is freaking horrendous
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 02:59:08 PM
Josh Allen is on that list too.
Allen has been horribly inaccurate this season. Part of it is probably the injury and part of it could be to do with the fact that I would guess his average yards/attempt is higher than most, but he generally hasn't been up to his previous level this year.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 03:03:07 PM
Josh Allen is on that list too.
Hasn't accuracy always been his big knock?
The guys elite no questions
But he was also 1 pick from leading the league this season
Post by: Badger on January 17, 2023, 03:09:15 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 17, 2023, 03:09:51 PM
Should we just be happy someone attempted to use something more sophisticated than completion % to indicate accuracy?
near interception-esque stat
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 03:15:42 PM
Should we just be happy someone attempted to use something more sophisticated than completion % to indicate accuracy?
Depends how convenient it is for the opinion we want to hold.
Post by: delavan on January 17, 2023, 05:28:27 PM
Depends how convenient it is for the opinion we want to hold.This
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 19, 2023, 07:22:34 AM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
·
17m
The Jets were winning but as Zach Wilson got worse, frustration mounted. WRs openly grumbled. Mike LaFleur yearned for a different QB.
Then it fell apart, a once promising season ending in disappointment.
Inside a failed QB + OC marriage and the fallout:
https://theathletic.com/4091050/2023/01/19/jets-offense-zach-wilson-robert-saleh-mike-lafleur
Who can post this article from Athletic?
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 07:23:11 AM
Who can post this article from Athletic?
Daddy MB can
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 19, 2023, 07:24:13 AM
Daddy MB can
Excellent <in Mr Burns voice>
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 07:26:27 AM
Quote
Zach Wilson, Mike LaFleur and the fallout from a Jets offense that never took flight
Zack Rosenblatt
Jan 19, 2023
Robert Saleh saw a tweet in September that stuck with him. It pointed out that legendary basketball coach John Wooden didn’t win his first national title until his 16th season at UCLA, that Starbucks’ massive growth took more than a decade, and ended with this line: Be persistent. Success takes time.
In Week 3, the Jets lost to the Bengals on a bad day when they turned the ball over four times. They were 1-2 with Joe Flacco starting at quarterback in place of the injured Zach Wilson, and fans were readying their pitchforks. Saleh thought of that tweet again. He texted it to some people he thought needed to see it. “We’ll be fine,” Saleh would say to anyone willing to listen. “We have the pieces.”
Once Wilson returned in Week 4, the Jets won five of their next six games, powered by an elite defense, an effective ground game and a trio of rookies — cornerback Sauce Gardner, wide receiver Garrett Wilson and running back Breece Hall — quickly emerging as stars. But while this was going on, Saleh was working behind the scenes to put out fires and ease tensions in a locker room growing increasingly frustrated with the lack of production from Wilson, the 23-year-old quarterback who was the No. 2 pick of the 2021 NFL Draft.
The Jets entered their bye week 6-3, with Saleh building internal support for his ability to weather the winds of controversy that enveloped many Jets coaches before him. He had players believing they could overcome anything — trade requests, bad quarterback play and injuries to key players. New York went into its bye week with a 60 percent chance of making the playoffs, per FiveThirtyEight, but Saleh’s message remained consistent: “We still have a long, long way to go.”
Zach Wilson’s dreadful performance in a 10-3 loss to the Patriots after the bye week — followed by postgame comments skirting responsibility for his poor play — led to his benching. Some in the locker room, and on the coaching staff, rejoiced at starting Mike White, a 27-year-old journeyman with three previous career starts. When Wilson replaced an injured White weeks later, multiple teammates openly grumbled about his return during practice and in meetings.
Saleh had been putting out fires all season, but he couldn’t ignite a broken offense. The Jets finished 7-10, losing seven of their final eight games and six in a row to end the season.
Compromised by injuries to key players, the offense couldn’t overcome a quarterback (Wilson) who lost his confidence and a coordinator (Mike LaFleur) who felt constrained by the quarterback’s limitations. Wide receivers openly expressed frustration with the direction of the offense. Defensive players collectively shrugged, wondering how much more they could’ve done.
In November, LaFleur was pegged as a future head coach. In January, he was let go in a mutual parting of ways.
go-deeper
GO DEEPER
Jets' offseason needs: 6 areas they must fix to return to the playoffs
Saleh has said the “quarterback is the head of the snake,” and that “you want the head of the snake to be stable.” The Jets will spend the offseason looking for a new quarterback since Wilson, most have accepted, is not the solution.
The Athletic spoke with a dozen players, coaches, staff and others in and around the Jets organization to figure out what went wrong. Some were granted anonymity to speak freely about the inner workings of the team without reprisal. Those conversations painted the picture of a head coach doing his best to keep things together as his players grew increasingly irritated with a young quarterback battling injuries, self-doubt and a frustrated offensive coordinator.
When the Jets hired Saleh to be head coach in January 2021, LaFleur was an easy choice for offensive coordinator.
Saleh and LaFleur had been fellow assistants on the 49ers under Kyle Shanahan — Saleh the defensive coordinator, LaFleur the passing game coordinator — and had known each other for years. Saleh worked and lived with Mike’s brother Matt at Central Michigan, and would annoy a teenaged Mike by hogging the TV when he visited the LaFleur family home in Mount Pleasant, Mich.
LaFleur’s hiring was praised by many around the league. “It’s the West Coast system,” he said in his introductory news conference. “We’re trying to run the outside zone and do the play-action stuff off of it, but we fit it to our players.” But some players found the system to be needlessly complicated.
“We’ll have one route but it has a bunch of different names depending on the concept,” said a former Jets receiver who spent time with the team in training camp this year. “I’ve been on multiple teams, this is the first time I’ve experienced that.”
Calvin Jackson, an undrafted rookie wide receiver who spent the offseason and training camp with the Jets, said LaFleur spoke with him one-on-one after Jackson had a tough time learning concepts in OTAs. “He’s one of those soft-spoken guys that won’t say much,” Jackson said. “But if you need help, you can always go to him and ask for it.” By training camp, Jackson said he had the concepts figured out.
As a rookie, Zach Wilson struggled with the complexity of the scheme and went 3-10 as the starter. Over the offseason, LaFleur and quarterbacks coach Rob Calabrese studied what worked for Wilson in 2021 and what didn’t. There was some level of frustration. LaFleur would tell people how much more effective the offense looked with quarterbacks Flacco, Josh Johnson and especially White. The stats backed it up.
But Wilson was the Jets’ future, so LaFleur adjusted the scheme, reduced the volume of plays and tried to make things more digestible. Wilson seemed to have a better handle on the offense in OTAs and went into the rest of the offseason committed to building chemistry with his wide receivers.
He spent thousands of dollars flying to Florida, Arizona and Tennessee to work out with teammates. Wilson invited most of the team’s skill position players and quarterbacks to Idaho for a getaway right before training camp, a fun weekend relaxing in the company of celebrities like Wayne Gretzky and Justin Bieber. Some of Wilson’s teammates appreciated the effort he was putting in.
“I never hung out with him outside of the building or anything, but from my experience he was a cool, down-to-earth dude,” said the wide receiver who was with the Jets in training camp. Jackson said when he was first signed to the Jets, Wilson told him: “I’m happy you’re here.” And when Jackson was cut, Wilson called “to make sure I was in the right headspace.”
Less than two years after selecting him with the No. 2 pick in the draft, the Jets seem set on moving on from Zach Wilson as their starting quarterback. (Al Pereira / Getty Images)
In New York’s first preseason game, Wilson started things off by sailing a pass over Garrett Wilson’s head and throwing a bad interception. On his second drive, his right knee buckled on a scramble, a non-contact injury. He had suffered a torn meniscus and bone bruise and was forced to the sidelines for six weeks while recovering from a procedure to repair the meniscus. Wilson said afterward he did not anticipate any long-term effects from the knee injury, or from the PCL sprain he suffered as a rookie to the same knee that forced him to miss four games.
Wilson made his 2022 regular-season debut in Week 4 against the Steelers and struggled for three quarters, though he did catch a second-quarter touchdown on a trick play. In the fourth quarter, the Jets trailing by 10, Wilson pulled his teammates aside and told them, in so many words, to “man up.” He completed 10 of 12 passes for 128 yards and a touchdown that quarter while playing through an ankle injury, and the Jets won 24-20.
“The young man doesn’t flinch,” Saleh said after the game.
It never got better.
LaFleur’s directive to Zach Wilson when he returned to game action wasn’t complicated: If the first read and second reads aren’t there, run.
The strategy worked against the Steelers and again in Week 5 against the Dolphins, a 40-17 win. In Week 6, the Jets won in Green Bay, even though Wilson completed only 10 of 18 passes for 110 yards while playing through a separation of the AC joint in his left shoulder.
The Jets’ simplistic approach to the passing game wasn’t sitting well with some wide receivers, who weren’t seeing the ball as much as they had with Flacco starting the first three games. Garrett Wilson had one catch against the Packers. Elijah Moore wasn’t targeted at all while running 14 routes. Moore reportedly first expressed his displeasure to teammates after the Packers game, questioning his future with the Jets. That night, he also responded to a tweet about his lack of targets by saying: “If I say what I really wanna say … I’ll be the selfish guy … just know I don’t understand either.”
His frustration spilled into practice that week. That Thursday, Moore surprised teammates and coaches by blowing up on LaFleur, telling him to “go f— yourself” and “you suck,” according to multiple people who witnessed the interaction. LaFleur and Saleh ultimately decided to send Moore home to cool off. That night, he requested a trade.
He was the second highly drafted wide receiver to do so — Denzel Mims, a second-round pick in 2020, wanted out in August, once it became clear he was buried on the depth chart. Both times, the Jets made it clear they didn’t intend to trade either. Publicly and privately, Saleh supported both Moore and Mims, and his compassion resonated with other Jets players. Moore and LaFleur hugged it out. Mims and Moore didn’t cause any issues the rest of the season.
The Jets won their Week 7 game against the Broncos, though it came at a great cost. Hall, averaging 5.8 yards per carry during his rookie season, suffered a torn ACL. Star offensive lineman Alijah Vera-Tucker, selected 12 picks after Wilson in the 2021 first round, suffered torn triceps. Both were lost for the season.
The next week, Wilson threw three interceptions in a 22-17 loss to the Patriots, and his relationship with LaFleur started to sour. NFL legend Steve Young, who Wilson said he called in November for advice, shed some light on their relationship in a radio interview earlier this month.
“Zach doesn’t need tough love. He doesn’t need somebody to see how tough he is. He needs a big brother — a young, knowledgeable innovator, someone who he can trust and says to him, ‘You know what, despite everything that’s happened, Zach, I believe in you. You can get this done.’ Zach needs that,” Young said. “Mike kind of kept him at arm’s length and gave him the tough-love aspect, and I don’t think that’s really useful for Zach.”
Zach Wilson sat in the back of the visitor’s press conference room at Gillette Stadium as Saleh spoke, fuming at one reporter’s line of questioning. Wilson had just had a brutal performance, 77 passing yards in a 10-3 Week 11 loss at New England. The offense mustered only 2 yards in the second half.
Is the quarterback holding the offense back?
If Zach continues to struggle, will you bench him?
Then, Wilson spoke. He called his performance “frustrating,” admitting that some throws “got away” from him. He pointed out that it was “windy as hell,” which made things challenging. At the end of the news conference, Wilson was asked if he felt like he let the defense down on a day when it allowed the Patriots’ offense to score only three points.
His response: “No, no.”
The moment went viral, with Wilson mocked incessantly from all corners of the internet for his lack of accountability. The quote quickly made its way around the locker room, and some teammates — especially defensive players — were unhappy. Wilson didn’t realize the magnitude of his words until his dad texted him on his way out to the team bus: What the heck did you just do?
Wilson tried explaining that his response was directed at the reporter, not the question. But the damage was done. He’d planned to apologize at his next news conference after practice on Wednesday, but tight end C.J. Uzomah and others texted him Tuesday night suggesting he speak to his teammates before that.
“Hey man, just letting you know: You rubbed the team the wrong way,” Uzomah said he told Wilson on “The Chris Rose Football Show with C.J. Uzomah.” “I’d say something if I were you.”
That Wednesday morning, Saleh informed the team that Wilson was being benched for White. Wilson still apologized to coaches, to team captains and in front of the entire team. It was described as a heartfelt apology, but many of Wilson’s teammates, and LaFleur, were excited about opening up the offense with a different quarterback.
Saleh labeled it a “reset” for Wilson, bumping him down to the third string so he could get back to basics and fix the mechanical issues that were plaguing him, namely his footwork. Saleh insisted the Jets weren’t giving up on Wilson and said later in the season that they’d continue working with him through “hell or high water.”
go-deeper
GO DEEPER
Rosenblatt: Jets' Zach Wilson benching is a bold decision — and the right one
The Jets beat the Bears 31-10 in White’s first start, and nearly beat the Vikings in Minnesota the following week. After the game, a loss, teammates raved about White in a way they never had about Wilson. “I know I’d go to war for that boy,” said Garrett Wilson. “He’s got something special about him.”
Meanwhile, Zach Wilson sought to find the “fun” in football again. He called some former NFL quarterbacks who hit rough patches early in their careers for advice: Kurt Warner, Drew Brees and Young. Warner told The Athletic that he “enjoyed” talking to Wilson and getting to know him, though he wanted to keep their conversation private. He did say that Wilson’s willingness to make those calls is a positive sign.
“I think there’s a lot of things to learn when you’re open to believing you still have something to learn, and areas you can grow,” Warner said. “I respect him a lot for reaching out and listening … (but) it’s one thing to reach out and listen, and it’s another thing to be willing to do what it takes to change.”
Mike LaFleur’s offense initially took off under Mike White (above), but it crashed after White’s rib injury pushed Zach Wilson back into the starting lineup. (Mark Konezny / USA Today)
The Jets had planned to keep Wilson benched through the end of the season, but White suffered fractured ribs against the Bills in Week 14. Saleh named Wilson the starter for Week 15. In practice that week, Wilson threw a series of incompletions during team drills that frustrated Jets receivers, and the struggles carried into games.
Wilson completed 18 of 35 passes in a loss to the Lions. In Week 16, he was booed off the field by Jets fans and benched for practice squad quarterback Chris Streveler in the second half of a loss to the Jaguars. New York went back to White in Week 17 against Seattle, playoff hopes still alive, even though White was still battling the rib injury.
The Jets lost 23-6, their playoff hopes over.
Jets owner Woody Johnson pointed at the large portrait of Winston Churchill in his office at Florham Park and smiled.
“I brought it over from London,” Johnson said last week. Churchill “was behind every ambassador since 1944.”
Johnson returned to the Jets in 2021 after serving four years as the ambassador to the United Kingdom as a member of former President Donald Trump’s administration. Johnson returned to a different organization than the one he left, with a general manager (Joe Douglas) and head coach (Saleh) both hired by Christopher Johnson, Woody’s brother, who believed in their vision.
By all accounts, Woody Johnson does too, though he was frustrated with the way the Jets collapsed at the end of the season. After the loss in Seattle, Johnson had meetings with Saleh and Douglas to discuss the Jets’ plan of attack in the offseason, among other things.
go-deeper
GO DEEPER
Woody Johnson still committed to Jets' vision, but team must 'get better faster'
Multiple people in the organization pushed back on the narrative that Johnson forced Saleh to fire LaFleur, though Saleh likely did feel pressure from above to make changes. For weeks, Saleh defended LaFleur, insisting — publicly and privately — that the problems were not one person’s fault.
It would’ve been hard for anyone to succeed with below-average quarterback play, the loss of two “superstars” — Saleh’s words — in Hall and Vera-Tucker and an offensive line in shambles. All told, the Jets had six starting offensive tackles spend time on injured reserve. Left tackle Duane Brown played 12 games with a bum shoulder. Right tackle George Fant played eight on a bad knee. They started 11 different players and nine different combinations on the line.
But the Jets didn’t score a touchdown in their final three games and went 1 of 6 in the red zone in a five-point loss to the Vikings in Week 13. They finished ranked 25th in total offense and 29th in scoring. After the season, Garrett Wilson said that in the final games, other teams “had an idea of what we were trying to do,” and that it “got real hard for us on offense.”
On Jan. 11, Saleh and LaFleur agreed to part ways. Saleh canceled scheduled coaches meetings that day. “I think it was hard on Robert,” one Jets staff member said. “He protects everyone. It’s a little close to the chest for him.” Offensive line coach John Benton and wide receivers coach Miles Austin were also fired.
Now the Jets move forward, as Saleh seeks someone to revamp an offense with major issues at quarterback and on the offensive line — and with no guarantee this staff will still be around in 2024. They are expected to pursue veteran quarterbacks this offseason, and Johnson said he is “absolutely” willing to spend to upgrade the position. The Jets retain one of the NFL’s best defenses and an impressive core of young talent, including defensive tackle Quinnen Williams, Garrett Wilson, Vera-Tucker, Gardner, Hall and cornerback D.J. Reed.
The pressure is on Saleh, and Douglas, to fix the offense. That starts at quarterback. Even if the Jets haven’t given up on Wilson, he’s unlikely to be their starter in 2023. Few NFL head coaches or general managers survive a misevaluation like that for a No. 2 pick.
The Jets need to find some stability at quarterback, their “head of the snake.”
Right now, they are a snake with no head.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 07:35:20 AM
Post by: insanity on January 19, 2023, 07:48:00 AM
Reporting
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 19, 2023, 07:54:48 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 07:58:49 AM
What a horseshit job of developing your QB. "Waahhh, he couldn't pick up my unnecessarily overcomplicated offense...give me the backup".
I'm so glad Lafleur is gone. Sadly, Zach may not overcome this.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 19, 2023, 08:04:43 AM
Good
Reporting
Agreed. I feel quite confident that Hughes would never have written a piece like that for the athletic.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 19, 2023, 08:10:12 AM
This explains why "WRs were wide open". Zach was told by his doofus OC to run if the first or second read wasn't there...no matter what.
What a horseshit job of developing your QB. "Waahhh, he couldn't pick up my unnecessarily overcomplicated offense...give me the backup".
I'm so glad Lafleur is gone. Sadly, Zach may not overcome this.
But the absurd thing is, Zach didn’t do that. He didn’t run. Well unless you count running backwards in the pocket as running.
Listening to Steve young’s comments again make me angry “Zach doesn’t respond to tough love” freak that. This is the NFL and this is ducking New York. Either grow some balls or you can’t handle it here. It seems quite clear Zach can’t handle it here.
This article again points out that LaFleur couldn’t adjust in the season after guys got hurt. He couldn’t scheme open his first or second read and he couldn’t scheme up a 4 yard run more than twice a game in the final month.
We are better off firing both into the sun and starting over at OC and QB and building around our current big 3 on offense, AVT, Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall. Perhaps we can even bring Elijah Moore into the plus starter category with a decent scheme and QB play
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2023, 08:11:57 AM
This explains why "WRs were wide open". Zach was told by his doofus OC to run if the first or second read wasn't there...no matter what.
What a horseshit job of developing your QB. "Waahhh, he couldn't pick up my unnecessarily overcomplicated offense...give me the backup".
I'm so glad Lafleur is gone. Sadly, Zach may not overcome this.
Interesting that you read it that way. I read it as an overly complex scheme that the quarterback wasn't smart enough to understand or talented enough to execute, so they simplified it for him and he still failed on basic execution. I definitely don't get the impression that it was solely a failure on Lafleur's part. There were plenty of things in there that suggest that Wilson may just be a straight dud regardless of OC or scheme, for example this from Kurt Warner: “I respect him a lot for reaching out and listening … (but) it’s one thing to reach out and listen, and it’s another thing to be willing to do what it takes to change.”
I don't think anyone is sad that Lafleur is gone, but this piece gives me very little reason to have any faith that Wilson is, will be or ever could be capable of leading an NFL team.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 08:14:05 AM
But the absurd thing is, Zach didn’t do that. He didn’t run. Well unless you count running backwards in the pocket as running.
Listening to Steve young’s comments again make me angry “Zach doesn’t respond to tough love” freak that. This is the NFL and this is ducking New York. Either grow some balls or you can’t handle it here. It seems quite clear Zach can’t handle it here.
This article again points out that LaFleur couldn’t adjust in the season after guys got hurt. He couldn’t scheme open his first or second read and he couldn’t scheme up a 4 yard run more than twice a game in the final month.
We are better off firing both into the sun and starting over at OC and QB and building around our current big 3 on offense, AVT, Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall. Perhaps we can even bring Elijah Moore into the plus starter category with a decent scheme and QB play
the oline collapsed before Zach got to his 2nd read in most cases....but yeah, i get your point.
the moral of the story for me was: Our OC didn't know how to develop a QB, and had no idea how to tailor his system to his strengths. Elijah Moore was correct telling MLF to 'go freak himself'.
Saleh needs to toughen up too. Stop hiring your buddies...he can't freak up this next OC hire.
After reading that article, i'm not sure Zach will get past this. It sounds like he's pretty soft mentally.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 08:14:50 AM
Interesting that you read it that way. I read it as an overly complex scheme that the quarterback wasn't smart enough to understand or talented enough to execute, so they simplified it for him and he still failed on basic execution. I definitely don't get the impression that it was solely a failure on Lafleur's part. There were plenty of things in there that suggest that Wilson may just be a straight dud regardless of OC or scheme, for example this from Kurt Warner: “I respect him a lot for reaching out and listening … (but) it’s one thing to reach out and listen, and it’s another thing to be willing to do what it takes to change.”
I don't think anyone is sad that Lafleur is gone, but this piece gives me very little reason to have any faith that Wilson is, will be or ever could be capable of leading an NFL team.
It wasnt just the QB...WRs were saying it was too complicated as well.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 08:16:06 AM
Interesting that you read it that way. I read it as an overly complex scheme that the quarterback wasn't smart enough to understand or talented enough to execute, so they simplified it for him and he still failed on basic execution. I definitely don't get the impression that it was solely a failure on Lafleur's part. There were plenty of things in there that suggest that Wilson may just be a straight dud regardless of OC or scheme, for example this from Kurt Warner: “I respect him a lot for reaching out and listening … (but) it’s one thing to reach out and listen, and it’s another thing to be willing to do what it takes to change.”
I don't think anyone is sad that Lafleur is gone, but this piece gives me very little reason to have any faith that Wilson is, will be or ever could be capable of leading an NFL team.
yeah i think Zach is cooked here. It would be nothing short of a miracle for him to do a complete 180 while still in a jets uniform.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 08:23:58 AM
Saleh better turn excrement around next year. Hiring his "buddy" basically help destroy a 2nd overall pick.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 19, 2023, 08:32:14 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 19, 2023, 08:34:10 AM
It wasnt just the QB...WRs were saying it was too complicated as well.
My understanding of the system was always that it was going to be hard on WRs because they had to tailor their route based on the coverage. This meant the QBs job was easier because they always had WRs running a route concept that could beat the coverage they ended up getting.
Now whether you have people able to execute that is a completely different issue.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 08:38:45 AM
I was quick to side with the org because Mims sucks and Moore handled things like a child, but it says a lot about LaFleur that multiple players reacted this way to him and his coaching.
I’ve questioned our passing offense from the start. Attempting to run option routes when you can’t block is absurd. Having them built into nearly every play is also ridiculous and puts stress on the QB and WR.
It’s bad, overcomplicated football.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 19, 2023, 08:42:17 AM
But the absurd thing is, Zach didn’t do that. He didn’t run. Well unless you count running backwards in the pocket as running.
Absolutely this. How many times were we screaming at him to just pull the ball down and go?
Good article. LaFleur's offense was clearly a major problem if the terminology and concepts were that hard to get grasp, and Wilson struggled executing even a basic version of it.
If Wilson is ever going to be successful it isn't going to be here. He needs to go the Geno route and sit for a few seasons. The dude has the arm talent but he needs to revamp just about every other part of his game.
Whether we did a poor evaluation on Zach before we drafted him...or if we just plain ol' ruined him. I'm annoyed that we're in this position again.
Saleh better turn excrement around next year. Hiring his "buddy" basically help destroy a 2nd overall pick.
Most of the league had him pegged as QB2, but I don't know how accurately you can gage someone's reaction to a scenario (struggling) in an environment (NFL, where even the shitty players are good) that they have never been in before.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 09:59:35 AM
The Steve Young interview was interesting when I listened to it. Nobody came off good in it. LaFleur came off badly, and Wilson came off badly. Don't think you could have brought both of them back.
I think Saleh comes off looking very good.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 10:04:40 AM
Wilson being incompetent dragged down everyone.
That's your takeaway?
The receivers struggling to pick up the offense and the overcomplicated route concepts has nothing to do with Zach Wilson.
Wilson was bad, but Mike LaFleur was responsible for everything: QB, WR, play-calling, red zone inefficiency, poor opening game scripts...all of it.
We scored 2 first quarter touchdowns all season. The problem was bigger than Zach Wilson.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 10:10:42 AM
That's your takeaway?I mean, that's literally the whole point of the article, so yes.
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2023, 10:11:42 AM
The receivers struggling to pick up the offense and the overcomplicated route concepts has nothing to do with Zach Wilson.
Well, except:
Quote
Calvin Jackson, an undrafted rookie wide receiver who spent the offseason and training camp with the Jets, said LaFleur spoke with him one-on-one after Jackson had a tough time learning concepts in OTAs. “He’s one of those soft-spoken guys that won’t say much,” Jackson said. “But if you need help, you can always go to him and ask for it.” By training camp, Jackson said he had the concepts figured out.
If a UDFA/PS guy says "yeah, it was difficult but he was happy to help anyone who asked and I had it figured by the time camp opened" then I don't think it's a very good sign that your star QB wasn't able to.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 10:13:41 AM
If a UDFA/PS guy says "yeah, it was difficult but he was happy to help anyone who asked and I had it figured by the time camp opened" then I don't think it's a very good sign that your star QB wasn't able to.
I didn't know Zach Wilson was running routes
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 10:15:23 AM
I mean, that's literally the whole point of the article, so yes.
Elijah Moore almost fought Mike LaFleur before practice because of Zach Wilson's incompetence.
Denzel Mims couldn't learn the offense (and multiple positions) overnight because of Zach Wilson's incompetence.
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2023, 10:17:03 AM
I didn't know Zach Wilson was running routes
Clearly you didn't watch the Steelers game then. ;-)
The point is that they had to simplify the system to two reads and run because he couldn't figure out where his guys were going. There's no suggestion that the receivers were running the routes incorrectly, just that Zach didn't know what they were going to be. It explains a lot about why Moore wasn't getting targets, he simply wasn't on Zach's first couple of reads (presumably he was variously behind Garrett, Davis and one or both TEs) so it invariably ended up with Zach panicking and going runabout.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 10:17:07 AM
The first negative thing mentioned in the article is about "Saleh was working behind the scenes to put out fires and ease tensions in a locker room growing increasingly frustrated with the lack of production from Wilson, the 23-year-old quarterback who was the No. 2 pick of the 2021 NFL Draft."
It goes in to talk about Zach being terrible both in-game and post-game against the Patriots caused him to get benched, how LaFleur and his teammates were frustrated in Zach. It talks about how LaFleur simplified the scheme in the offseason, and again during the season to try to make things easier for Zach, and nothing worked. And it dives into how his bad play also happened in practice, not just in games, leading to more frustration by everyone.
I don't think there was anything new about LaFleur, other than mentioning specifics about how he tried to simplify the offense, and a training camp receiver saying that the scheme was too complicated. If your main takeaway from an article that has like 30 paragraphs about how bad Wilson is, and 2 paragraphs on LaFleur's scheme being complicated according to receivers who were cut in training camp, that's fine, but that's not the main theme of the article.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 10:19:28 AM
Elijah Moore almost fought Mike LaFleur before practice because of Zach Wilson's incompetence.Yes. They simplified the offense for our terrible QB so he made 2 reads or ran it, and Moore didn't like that since it took away his targets.
Denzel Mims couldn't learn the offense (and multiple positions) overnight because of Zach Wilson's incompetence.
I didn't realize you were a Denzel Mims defender now.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 10:20:57 AM
The point is that they had to simplify the system to two reads and run
Here's the thing with that:
If he's going from 1 to 2 in his reads but then having to basically guess what a receiver is running, he's having to overthink.
You can disguise coverages all game against that kind of offense. WR is reading one or two guys. QB is reading an entire coverage.
Garrett Wilson said they were predictable. All you have to do is take him out of the game and it's basically over.
Mike White was bad too. He had two good games against bad defenses the past two seasons. He was misfiring too.
The scheme was broken.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 10:24:52 AM
Well, except:It seems like the scheme was too complicated for some. That's a takeaway as well. But it also seems like they tried to simplify it several times for Zach. And part of the reason Zach was the No. 2 pick in the draft was because he was supposed to be really smart and a football junkie, so you would hope he'd be able to pick up some of the schemes. As it says in the article, the offense typically ran better with any other QB besides Zach, though that was before the end of this season when everything completely fell apart and got MLF fired.
If a UDFA/PS guy says "yeah, it was difficult but he was happy to help anyone who asked and I had it figured by the time camp opened" then I don't think it's a very good sign that your star QB wasn't able to.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 10:25:49 AM
They are calling plays to get players open. LaFleur was calling plays without knowing if his players would be open.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 10:29:23 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 10:34:01 AM
Also, poor use of Miscellania thread. Could have easily gone in Zach thread or MLF thread.
Fire MB
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 10:37:59 AM
I mean, that's literally the whole point of the article, so yes.
lol...no it wasn't.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 10:39:47 AM
Also, poor use of Miscellania thread. Could have easily gone in Zach thread or MLF thread.
talk to LJF...i only grant requests.
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2023, 10:47:27 AM
Here's the thing with that:
If he's going from 1 to 2 in his reads but then having to basically guess what a receiver is running, he's having to overthink.
You can disguise coverages all game against that kind of offense. WR is reading one or two guys. QB is reading an entire coverage.
Garrett Wilson said they were predictable. All you have to do is take him out of the game and it's basically over.
Mike White was bad too. He had two good games against bad defenses the past two seasons. He was misfiring too.
The scheme was broken.
No one's arguing that, but to get it as consistently wrong as Zach did even when it had been pared down and simplified speaks to a huge lack of mental ability to play the game at this level on his part.
All things can be true. MLF and Zach can both have been really bad at their jobs. They can both be starring characters in this season of the world's longest running sitcom.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 10:48:26 AM
No one's arguing that, but to get it as consistently wrong as Zach did even when it had been pared down and simplified speaks to a huge lack of mental ability to play the game at this level on his part.
All things can be true. MLF and Zach can both have been really bad at their jobs. They can both be starring characters in this season of the world's longest running sitcom.
Zach was also 22 years old.
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2023, 10:54:28 AM
Zach was also 22 years old.
I don't care. He's been playing football all his life and he looks like he's never seen a football before. I remain to be convinced he has the magic between the ears that's required to operate an NFL offense effectively. I don't expect a second year QB to be panicking the way he did every single game, and I don't know that it's possible to teach the kind of intelligence and temperament needed to succeed at that level.
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2023, 10:55:46 AM
Also, poor use of Miscellania thread. Could have easily gone in Zach thread or MLF thread.
Added to the Zach thread as he's still here and therefore relevant to us, at least for now.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 10:56:43 AM
I don't care. He's been playing football all his life and he looks like he's never seen a football before. I remain to be convinced he has the magic between the ears that's required to operate an NFL offense effectively. I don't expect a second year QB to be panicking the way he did every single game, and I don't know that it's possible to teach the kind of intelligence and temperament needed to succeed at that level.Perhaps you're right. But his OC at the NFL level hung him out to dry, and he didn't play this bad at BYU.
Post by: reuben on January 19, 2023, 11:06:36 AM
Quote
The Jets lost 23-6, their playoff hopes over.
Jets owner Woody Johnson pointed at the large portrait of Winston Churchill in his office at Florham Park and smiled.
“I brought it over from London,” Johnson said last week. Churchill “was behind every ambassador since 1944.”
Woody stole that excrement on the way out.
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2023, 11:07:45 AM
This is my favorite bit:
Woody stole that excrement on the way out.
Donald probably told Woody he could have it. After all, once you elected him it all belonged to him.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 19, 2023, 11:11:39 AM
talk to LJF...i only grant requests.
And you're doing a fine fine job
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 19, 2023, 11:16:32 AM
This is my favorite bit:
Woody stole that excrement on the way out.
What was the freaking point of that? What did that have to do with anything else in the article?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 11:19:12 AM
What was the freaking point of that? What did that have to do with anything else in the article?
Unnecessary Rosenblatt flex
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 11:19:51 AM
And you're doing a fine fine job
thanks babbie
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 19, 2023, 12:47:06 PM
1. LaFleur was terrible at developing this team's prize draft pick and worse at scheming for his talented receivers. I'm not pretending I know better, but should the same exact route have multiple names in the same offense? That seems overly complicated for exactly zero reasons.
2. Zach is mentally unfit to be an adult football player. Even beyond the inability to grasp concepts--overly complicated or not--he needs coddling like a child. You can look at his phone calls as "he was looking for advice" or you can look at them like "he's looking for someone to tell him it'll all be okay and hand him the answers to the test." It came off to me as the latter.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 12:50:02 PM
2. Zach is mentally unfit to be an adult football player. Even beyond the inability to grasp concepts--overly complicated or not--he needs coddling like a child. You can look at his phone calls as "he was looking for advice" or you can look at them like "he's looking for someone to tell him it'll all be okay and hand him the answers to the test." It came off to me as the latter.White Geno.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 12:51:40 PM
but should the same exact route have multiple names in the same offense
It should not
Post by: insanity on January 19, 2023, 02:45:58 PM
There are a few negative things about LaFleur in there. But the whole article from start to finish is framed about how everyone lost faith in Zach.Your reading comprehension is poor and even the author of the article agrees.
Post by: insanity on January 19, 2023, 02:53:41 PM
What was the freaking point of that? What did that have to do with anything else in the article?It was a metaphor for him being behind his coaches/general managers
Post by: insanity on January 19, 2023, 02:56:03 PM
But the absurd thing is, Zach didn’t do that. He didn’t run. Well unless you count running backwards in the pocket as running.
That's what I'm wondering. Was that him trying to run after his second read. Zach was always elsuvie in the pocket buy he was never that frantic last year.
Post by: Coach K on January 19, 2023, 03:05:15 PM
It's not even remotely similar to what you see from guys like Shanahan, McVay, Reid, and Pederson.This
They are calling plays to get players open. LaFleur was calling plays without knowing if his players would be open.
You can scheme open windows.
Lafleur just called unnecessarily complicated route des8gns placing people too close to eachother
Or the routes took way too long to develop especiallybconsidering the OL woes by mid season
Post by: insanity on January 19, 2023, 03:07:41 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 19, 2023, 03:15:26 PM
It was a metaphor for him being behind his coaches/general managers
That’s terrible
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 03:56:36 PM
Your reading comprehension is poor and even the author of the article agrees.Nah.
Look, clearly MLF wasn't that good, and I get there are 2 paragraphs in there talking about his issues. But the bulk of that article is about how Zach Wilson's failures permeated the entire roster.
Not really looking for this argument though. MLF was bad. Zach was worse. MLF is gone now. Zach will probably be gone soon.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
Nah.Actually Zach was made worse by MLF.
Look, clearly MLF wasn't that good, and I get there are 2 paragraphs in there talking about his issues. But the bulk of that article is about how Zach Wilson's failures permeated the entire roster.
Not really looking for this argument though. MLF was bad. Zach was worse. MLF is gone now. Zach will probably be gone soon.
Post by: insanity on January 19, 2023, 05:59:47 PM
Nah.The author literally refutes what you're saying on his podcast
Look, clearly MLF wasn't that good, and I get there are 2 paragraphs in there talking about his issues. But the bulk of that article is about how Zach Wilson's failures permeated the entire roster.
Not really looking for this argument though. MLF was bad. Zach was worse. MLF is gone now. Zach will probably be gone soon.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 06:01:40 PM
The author literally refutes what you're saying on his podcastDS doesn't care...hes incapable of admitting being wrong.
He owes the locker room an apology
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 06:10:05 PM
The author literally refutes what you're saying on his podcast
summarize this podcast, mate
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 20, 2023, 01:20:29 AM
summarize this podcast, mateGives Saleh a lot of credit for handling things.
Talks about the complicated offense that is built more for a veteran QB (which seems as am organization failure). Rehashed the article quotes about the offense being tricky for receivers.
He tried to simplify offense entering Year 2 and MLF was frustrated at Zach handcuffed him and WRs were frustrated at the simplified offense limiting them. MLF was just trying to get out of games alive being ultra conservative.
He described the article just as I interpreted it. Zach couldn't handle the complicated offense, which was partly MLF's fault. MLF adjusted by simplifying offense for Zach because Zach couldn't handle it. And Zach still struggled, which frustrated everyone. MLF needed to do a better job simplifying the offense for QB and WRs, but Zach's ineptitude was the core issue.
There is a sense that Zach is likable but "they hate him as a QB."
I didn't think the podcast revealed much new that the article didnt but it's pretty short on 1.5x speed.
He also said he didn't think they should have fired LaFleur and he thinks they're having trouble finding candidates because of the lack of job security and Woody's perceived meddling.
That said, he also said that Woody didn't force him out. He thinks Woody probably wanted a new structure but didn't necessarily want him fired.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 07:17:38 AM
Gives Saleh a lot of credit for handling things.
Talks about the complicated offense that is built more for a veteran QB (which seems as am organization failure). Rehashed the article quotes about the offense being tricky for receivers.
He tried to simplify offense entering Year 2 and MLF was frustrated at Zach handcuffed him and WRs were frustrated at the simplified offense limiting them. MLF was just trying to get out of games alive being ultra conservative.
He described the article just as I interpreted it. Zach couldn't handle the complicated offense, which was partly MLF's fault. MLF adjusted by simplifying offense for Zach because Zach couldn't handle it. And Zach still struggled, which frustrated everyone. MLF needed to do a better job simplifying the offense for QB and WRs, but Zach's ineptitude was the core issue.
There is a sense that Zach is likable but "they hate him as a QB."
I didn't think the podcast revealed much new that the article didnt but it's pretty short on 1.5x speed.
He also said he didn't think they should have fired LaFleur and he thinks they're having trouble finding candidates because of the lack of job security and Woody's perceived meddling.
That said, he also said that Woody didn't force him out. He thinks Woody probably wanted a new structure but didn't necessarily want him fired.
I'll wait for the unbiased review..thanks.
Post by: insanity on January 20, 2023, 07:37:55 AM
Gives Saleh a lot of credit for handling things.He also said that after his first season MLF was throwing a hissy fit about zach needing to start which is absolute bullshit. It's your job to help your rookie qb grow.
Talks about the complicated offense that is built more for a veteran QB (which seems as am organization failure). Rehashed the article quotes about the offense being tricky for receivers.
He tried to simplify offense entering Year 2 and MLF was frustrated at Zach handcuffed him and WRs were frustrated at the simplified offense limiting them. MLF was just trying to get out of games alive being ultra conservative.
He described the article just as I interpreted it. Zach couldn't handle the complicated offense, which was partly MLF's fault. MLF adjusted by simplifying offense for Zach because Zach couldn't handle it. And Zach still struggled, which frustrated everyone. MLF needed to do a better job simplifying the offense for QB and WRs, but Zach's ineptitude was the core issue.
There is a sense that Zach is likable but "they hate him as a QB."
I didn't think the podcast revealed much new that the article didnt but it's pretty short on 1.5x speed.
He also said he didn't think they should have fired LaFleur and he thinks they're having trouble finding candidates because of the lack of job security and Woody's perceived meddling.
That said, he also said that Woody didn't force him out. He thinks Woody probably wanted a new structure but didn't necessarily want him fired.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 07:41:13 AM
He also said that after his first season MLF was throwing a hissy fit about zach needing to start which is absolute bullshit. It's your job to help your rookie qb grow.
my only concern when we drafted Zach was making sure we had the right person in charge of his development, and of course, Saleh completely fucked up that hire in true Jets fashion. I shouldn't be surprised in the least...but i actually had hope this time around. What a punch in the face.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 20, 2023, 07:55:58 AM
He also said that after his first season MLF was throwing a hissy fit about zach needing to start which is absolute bullshit. It's your job to help your rookie qb grow.
Zach should not have been starting after his first season
Forcing him to do so probably got rid of any chance of fixing him
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 20, 2023, 08:03:18 AM
He also said that after his first season MLF was throwing a hissy fit about zach needing to start which is absolute bullshit. It's your job to help your rookie qb grow.
As in LaFleur was upset that they needed to start Wilson because there were no other options? Or that he throwing a fit demanding that Wilson start?
If he was upset that Wilson was the only option for starting QB going into the season then I would agree with him there. Wilson clearly wasn't ready.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 08:10:42 AM
As in LaFleur was upset that they needed to start Wilson because there were no other options? Or that he throwing a fit demanding that Wilson start?
If he was upset that Wilson was the only option for starting QB going into the season then I would agree with him there. Wilson clearly wasn't ready.
Lafleur's job was to get him ready.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 08:20:01 AM
Saleh messed up by not replacing him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 20, 2023, 08:50:36 AM
Lafleur's job was to get him ready.
Given what we've seen on the field, I don't think there was anyone in the NFL who could have gotten Zach Wilson ready to start from day one or season two. He was clearly a project player who should have spent more time developing off the field, but institutionally the team failed Wilson's development as a whole.
Before I get accused of making excuses for LaFleur, there is plenty of other evidence showing why LaFleur should not have been left alone to develop this offense:
-The long developing routes remaining despite the offensive line being incapable of holding up long enough to get the ball out
-The complete ineptitude of the running game (Breece Hall finished the season as the leading rusher despite only playing 7 games)
-Poor schemeing
-The inability to adjust to what the defense is showing
Saying LaFleur did nothing to help Wilson is correct.
Failing to bring Saleh and Douglas into the discussion for not putting a competent QB room around him (Calabrese as QB coach despite his inexperience, going into Wilson's rookie season with Mike White and Josh Johnson as the only other QBs on the roster)and managing the team as if Wilson was ready to go from day one is not.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 08:53:56 AM
Given what we've seen on the field, I don't think there was anyone in the NFL who could have gotten Zach Wilson ready to start from day one or season two. He was clearly a project player who should have spent more time developing off the field, but institutionally the team failed Wilson's development as a whole.
Before I get accused of making excuses for LaFleur, there is plenty of other evidence showing why LaFleur should not have been left alone to develop this offense:
-The long developing routes remaining despite the offensive line being incapable of holding up long enough to get the ball out
-The complete ineptitude of the running game (Breece Hall finished the season as the leading rusher despite only playing 7 games)
-Poor schemeing
-The inability to adjust to what the defense is showing
Saying LaFleur did nothing to help Wilson is correct.
Failing to bring Saleh and Douglas into the discussion for not putting a competent QB room around him (Calabrese as QB coach despite his inexperience, going into Wilson's rookie season with Mike White and Josh Johnson as the only other QBs on the roster)and managing the team as if Wilson was ready to go from day one is not.
You pretty much summed everything up here.
The entire organization failed Zach Wilson and it just hit Mike LaFleur first. There's still plenty of significant fallout that can happen because of that draft selection.
If Joe Douglas can't get a quarterback this offseason, he's probably toast.
If Robert Saleh doesn't make the right hire at offensive coordinator this time, he's probably toast.
If the team fails to make the playoffs again in 2023, Woody Johnson is getting rid of everybody and the team is being blown up ...again.
---
This team has mishandled quarterbacks for decades now. Sam Darnold wasn't ready to go as a rookie and we didn't have a legitimate veteran to compete with him either. We can't hand the job to a rookie again. Douglas has to go get Derek Carr or Aaron Rodgers and then probably draft another QB to compete with Wilson for QB2.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 20, 2023, 08:56:06 AM
Start anew.
/thread
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 08:57:03 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 09:17:39 AM
Given what we've seen on the field, I don't think there was anyone in the NFL who could have gotten Zach Wilson ready to start from day one or season two. He was clearly a project player who should have spent more time developing off the field, but institutionally the team failed Wilson's development as a whole.
Before I get accused of making excuses for LaFleur, there is plenty of other evidence showing why LaFleur should not have been left alone to develop this offense:
-The long developing routes remaining despite the offensive line being incapable of holding up long enough to get the ball out
-The complete ineptitude of the running game (Breece Hall finished the season as the leading rusher despite only playing 7 games)
-Poor schemeing
-The inability to adjust to what the defense is showing
Saying LaFleur did nothing to help Wilson is correct.
Failing to bring Saleh and Douglas into the discussion for not putting a competent QB room around him (Calabrese as QB coach despite his inexperience, going into Wilson's rookie season with Mike White and Josh Johnson as the only other QBs on the roster)and managing the team as if Wilson was ready to go from day one is not.
good post...agree with everything here.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 09:19:32 AM
2023 is the most important season this team's had in a really, really long time
yeah..it's a make or break year for everyone involved, like you alluded to.
The scarcity of available competent QBs this offseason will make this very interesting.
Post by: insanity on January 20, 2023, 10:22:16 AM
As in LaFleur was upset that they needed to start Wilson because there were no other options? Or that he throwing a fit demanding that Wilson start?Going into year 2 MLF was openly saying his offense would work better if he didn't need to start zach wilson. In my opinion that is a bullshit attitude of a leader in charge of the offense. His top priority is helping him become successful. That's coaching on the field, scheming off the field, and properly communicating needs to coaches and front office to make his life easier.
If he was upset that Wilson was the only option for starting QB going into the season then I would agree with him there. Wilson clearly wasn't ready.
I get joe and Robert share this accountability, but throwing a hissy fit because he would look better as a coach if he played a different qb instead of our feanchise's most important asset is inappropriate at best.
Post by: insanity on January 20, 2023, 10:24:36 AM
Going into year 2 MLF was openly saying his offense would work better if he didn't need to start zach wilson. In my opinion that is a bullshit attitude of a leader in charge of the offense. His top priority is helping him become successful. That's coaching on the field, scheming off the field, and properly communicating needs to coaches and front office to make his life easier.The fact that so many players disliked MLF also proves my point.
I get joe and Robert share this accountability, but throwing a hissy fit because he would look better as a coach if he played a different qb instead of our feanchise's most important asset is inappropriate at best.
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2023, 11:18:16 AM
Going into year 2 MLF was openly saying his offense would work better if he didn't need to start zach wilson. In my opinion that is a bullshit attitude of a leader in charge of the offense. His top priority is helping him become successful. That's coaching on the field, scheming off the field, and properly communicating needs to coaches and front office to make his life easier.
I get joe and Robert share this accountability, but throwing a hissy fit because he would look better as a coach if he played a different qb instead of our feanchise's most important asset is inappropriate at best.
Inclined to disagree a bit. His top priority is winning games, and ideally that would be done with Wilson.
Post by: insanity on January 20, 2023, 11:24:03 AM
I wont try to convince you because I know this has been your stance for a while, but if a oc is brought in with the number #2 overall pick ita his job to develop the qb. If the qb fails the oc will be gone.
Inclined to disagree a bit. His top priority is winning games, and ideally that would be done with Wilson.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 11:30:29 AM
I wont try to convince you because I know this has been your stance for a while, but if a oc is brought in with the number #2 overall pick ita his job to develop the qb. If the qb fails the oc will be gone.
100% correct
And that's exactly what happened.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 20, 2023, 11:38:12 AM
I wont try to convince you because I know this has been your stance for a while, but if a oc is brought in with the number #2 overall pick ita his job to develop the qb. If the qb fails the oc will be gone.
100% it's the OCs job to develop the QB
I'm not suggesting this is the case with MLF. But you can't blame the OC if the GM/scouts/HC end up drafting a horrendously dog excrement QB.
There are guys you can potentially develop (ie Sanchez Darnold). And then there's guys like Wilson, who probably have no business being in the NFL no matter what.
Maybe, Zach would've had success if he was drafted by the 49ers, sat behind Jimmy G and had all that successful organization behind him. But there's so many more components to that than just an OC
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 11:42:10 AM
And then there's guys like Wilson, who probably have no business being in the NFL no matter what.
He was the consensus #2 QB in that class. He has the talent to play in the NFL.
Much like Alex Smith, he started too soon and had a terrible coaching staff when he arrived.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 11:44:16 AM
100% it's the OCs job to develop the QB
I'm not suggesting this is the case with MLF. But you can't blame the OC if the GM/scouts/HC end up drafting a horrendously dog excrement QB.
There are guys you can potentially develop (ie Sanchez Darnold). And then there's guys like Wilson, who probably have no business being in the NFL no matter what.
Maybe, Zach would've had success if he was drafted by the 49ers, sat behind Jimmy G and had all that successful organization behind him. But there's so many more components to that than just an OC
I love how Zach is considered *checks notes* horrendous dog excrement....unless he was drafted by the Niners.
you're the worst poster on this board.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 20, 2023, 12:10:26 PM
100% correct
And that's exactly what happened.
Part of developing him should be knowing when he isn't ready. LaFleur was right that he wasn't ready to play. LaFleur is also a part of the reason as to why he likely will take longer to be ready to play.
Post by: insanity on January 20, 2023, 12:35:30 PM
He was the consensus #2 QB in that class. He has the talent to play in the NFL.Correct. The take that he never would have succeeded are trash
Much like Alex Smith, he started too soon and had a terrible coaching staff when he arrived.
Post by: insanity on January 20, 2023, 12:36:54 PM
Part of developing him should be knowing when he isn't ready.I think there's also a difference between saying he isn't ready and being upset that other qbs would put up better numbers in his system. Maybe I'm reading to much into this but the latter seems selfish while the formal seems more team oriented. Who knows maybe his hands were tied.
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2023, 12:44:49 PM
I wont try to convince you because I know this has been your stance for a while, but if a oc is brought in with the number #2 overall pick ita his job to develop the qb. If the qb fails the oc will be gone.
If Matt Milano didn't smoke White, he didn't miss the next two games and we win one of them to make the postseason, Lafleur would still be here. He got fired because our offense was excrement, the Wilson stuff is secondary.
Lafleur was bad. His scheme was stupid and unhelpful and that's why he was fired. Zach Wilson is also bad. He probably won't be successful in anyone's scheme and it's quite likely he never would have been. Wilson is on Douglas, not Lafleur.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 20, 2023, 12:45:20 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1616495626379730944?cxt=HHwWgICx9aSN-e4sAAAA (https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1616495626379730944?cxt=HHwWgICx9aSN-e4sAAAA)
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 20, 2023, 12:46:31 PM
If Matt Milano didn't smoke White, he didn't miss the next two games and we win one of them to make the postseason, Lafleur would still be here. He got fired because our offense was excrement, the Wilson stuff is secondary.
Lafleur was bad. His scheme was stupid and unhelpful and that's why he was fired. Zach Wilson is also bad. He probably won't be successful in anyone's scheme and it's quite likely he never would have been. Wilson is on Douglas, not Lafleur.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILSON'S FAILING IS ON THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION, LAFLEUR INCLUDED. IT'S. NEVER. JUST. ONE. PERSON.
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2023, 12:48:08 PM
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILSON'S FAILING IS ON THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION, LAFLEUR INCLUDED. IT'S. NEVER. JUST. ONE. PERSON.
Why are you shouting at me? I agree with you. I'm refuting the suggestion that MLF was fired because he failed to turn Wilson into an NFL QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 12:51:03 PM
Dov Kleiman reporting on what Jordan Shcultz reported about Zach Wilson on the Pat McAfee show. Take it for the less than reputable info it is:
https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1616495626379730944?cxt=HHwWgICx9aSN-e4sAAAA (https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1616495626379730944?cxt=HHwWgICx9aSN-e4sAAAA)
The video clip is out there and that's definitely not what Schultz said.
He compared him to Kyler Murray saying their both super talented but might not prepare the right way. It's speculation and it's false from everything we've heard about Wilson.
It sucks that it never clicked for Zach, but it wasn't for lack of trying on his part. Saleh said he was trying to hard at one point and they had to basically kick him out of the facility because he was overloading himself with film.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 20, 2023, 02:16:51 PM
If Matt Milano didn't smoke White, he didn't miss the next two games and we win one of them to make the postseason, Lafleur would still be here. He got fired because our offense was excrement, the Wilson stuff is secondary.
Lafleur was bad. His scheme was stupid and unhelpful and that's why he was fired. Zach Wilson is also bad. He probably won't be successful in anyone's scheme and it's quite likely he never would have been. Wilson is on Douglas, not Lafleur.
There was still doubt about Wilson’s ability before he played the last two games against the Lions and Jaguars and removed all doubt that he is going backwards and is currently not ready to play. That coincides with the wheels falling off the offense and it all going belly up.
If Whites ribs survived he might have gotten us in, Wilson never plays and no one really knows (and subsequently is forced to evaluate and make changes) the extent of our issues at hand.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 20, 2023, 02:25:42 PM
You pretty much summed everything up here.
The entire organization failed Zach Wilson and it just hit Mike LaFleur first. There's still plenty of significant fallout that can happen because of that draft selection.
If Joe Douglas can't get a quarterback this offseason, he's probably toast.
If Robert Saleh doesn't make the right hire at offensive coordinator this time, he's probably toast.
If the team fails to make the playoffs again in 2023, Woody Johnson is getting rid of everybody and the team is being blown up ...again.
---
This team has mishandled quarterbacks for decades now. Sam Darnold wasn't ready to go as a rookie and we didn't have a legitimate veteran to compete with him either. We can't hand the job to a rookie again. Douglas has to go get Derek Carr or Aaron Rodgers and then probably draft another QB to compete with Wilson for QB2.
Someone needs to sticky and/or save this post. This is exactly the conclusion that everyone should come to.
The question I have is what if one person fails? What if Douglas can’t get a competent QB in here, but the new OC runs a good scheme and we see other players thrive in spite of poor QB play? Perhaps it is injury that slows the offense (Jimmy G?)? Is Douglas out but Saleh and co stay?
What if Douglas brings in Carr (most peoples top option) and fixes up the OL to slightly above average play, and the new OC isn’t effective right away, we start slow on offense and end up one or twos games off the playoffs. Are we firing Saleh and co? Does Douglas get to stay and hire another coach and regime?
Just how patient is woody about to be next year? I can’t really see us going 4-13 again, proving we need to blow it all up again. Our young studs are good enough to win 5 or 6 on their own. I also don’t expect us to be 12-5 and easily in the playoffs, potentially stealing the division. So when we inevitably fall in the middle at somewhere between 7-11 wins, what level of patience is woody going to display?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2023, 02:27:40 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 02:35:21 PM
If Trey Lance stinks, it’s probably just because he stinks. Not because Shanahan didn’t develop him enough. Bad QBs get drafted every year. Not all of them work out. We should be used to this by now.
Trey Lance is another project with raw physical talent, that played against inferior competition. I really don't know what he is yet because he's only played a handful of games.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 20, 2023, 02:37:08 PM
If Trey Lance stinks, it’s probably just because he stinks. Not because Shanahan didn’t develop him enough. Bad QBs get drafted every year. Not all of them work out. We should be used to this by now.
While I agree with this, I firmly am of the belief that if a guy is seen by the NFL as a consensus first round pick, like Zach Wilson was, and not say a guy like Christian Ponder who nobody but the Vikings thought was that good, they have the requisite talent to succeed. Put them in a proper situation, they can figure it out. Put them in a excrement situation and they will fail.
Now succeed does not mean “become Patrick Mahomes 2.0” you to be a special talent combined with special development around you for that. But by succeed you could become a top 20 NFL guy and be a starter for a while in the league.
Development matters, we have no one in this organization who has been a part of developing a QB ever. Some guys can be good enough on their own without help, but there are very few of those guys. Most need some kind of stability around them. Our last several drafted QBs (Sanchez, Geno, Hackenberg, Darnold, Wilson) weren’t “succeed despite environment” guys, and we need to setup a real environment to help our next guy, whoever it is (and whenever it is) to develop successfully. We have made it quite clear with this attempt to develop a kid, we have no idea what we were doing, and it showed very fast that we had no idea.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 02:42:36 PM
If Trey Lance stinks, it’s probably just because he stinks. Not because Shanahan didn’t develop him enough. Bad QBs get drafted every year. Not all of them work out. We should be used to this by now.
He was pretty solid as a rookie when he played.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 02:43:48 PM
He was pretty solid as a rookie when he played.
IIRC, North Dakota State ran him a lot...dcm will love him.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2023, 02:43:49 PM
While I agree with this, I firmly am of the belief that if a guy is seen by the NFL as a consensus first round pick, like Zach Wilson was, and not say a guy like Christian Ponder who nobody but the Vikings thought was that good, they have the requisite talent to succeed. Put them in a proper situation, they can figure it out. Put them in a excrement situation and they will fail.
Now succeed does not mean “become Patrick Mahomes 2.0” you to be a special talent combined with special development around you for that. But by succeed you could become a top 20 NFL guy and be a starter for a while in the league.
Development matters, we have no one in this organization who has been a part of developing a QB ever. Some guys can be good enough on their own without help, but there are very few of those guys. Most need some kind of stability around them. Our last several drafted QBs (Sanchez, Geno, Hackenberg, Darnold, Wilson) weren’t “succeed despite environment” guys, and we need to setup a real environment to help our next guy, whoever it is (and whenever it is) to develop successfully. We have made it quite clear with this attempt to develop a kid, we have no idea what we were doing, and it showed very fast that we had no idea.
Compare the supporting cast Darnold had to Wilson.
Bowles/Bates and Gase/Loggains
Bottom 5 OL
Nothing close to a WR1
No TEs
LeVeon Bell and Frank Gore
The 2018 bears game where we started Jermaine Kearse, Deontay Burnett, and Charone Peake.
Zach had a much, much better situation across the board. And he played worse
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2023, 02:44:28 PM
He was pretty solid as a rookie when he played.
We should have taken him then
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 02:46:29 PM
We should have taken him then
he's a bigger project than Zach.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 20, 2023, 02:55:58 PM
he's a bigger project than Zach.
You just said you don’t know what he is.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 02:57:34 PM
You just said you don’t know what he is.
because the project ain't complete
he's not a finished product yet
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 02:59:26 PM
Zach had a much, much better situation across the board. And he played worse
The only thing better after the midway mark was Garrett Wilson.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
We should have taken him then
We don't have Kyle Shanahan
Post by: Libero_2 on January 20, 2023, 03:21:24 PM
Compare the supporting cast Darnold had to Wilson.
Bowles/Bates and Gase/Loggains
Bottom 5 OL
Nothing close to a WR1
No TEs
LeVeon Bell and Frank Gore
The 2018 bears game where we started Jermaine Kearse, Deontay Burnett, and Charone Peake.
Zach had a much, much better situation across the board. And he played worse
I wasn’t comparing Darnold to Wilson. Wilson had better talent on the roster before injuries this year than Sam ever had. I was only referring to Zach’s surrounding coaching environment not being good enough.
I think we can all feel confident that in retrospect (setting aside any and all of our past failed QBs) what Saleh and Co put together for Zach didn’t give him the best chance for success.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 20, 2023, 04:26:21 PM
If Trey Lance stinks, it’s probably just because he stinks. Not because Shanahan didn’t develop him enough. Bad QBs get drafted every year. Not all of them work out. We should be used to this by now.This. Will good coaching make some of these QBs better? Absolutely. But if you draft a lemon, he is probably a lemon.
Top QBs fail all the time. It's usually an organizational failure. If the guy whose job it is to make Wilson a good QB thinks he can't play, that is a problem, especially when we put all our eggs in that basket.
Douglas made a bad pick. Douglas made a bad decision not getting another backup option. MLF did a bad job with the offense. But in the end, it is all because Zach was a lemon. That cost MLF his job. It would have cost Douglas his job had Jamal Adams and John Schneider not bailed him out (and it still might).
That said, that's all in the past now. Find a way to make it work with a new QB and new OC.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 20, 2023, 04:38:47 PM
Dov Kleiman reporting on what Jordan Shcultz reported about Zach Wilson on the Pat McAfee show. Take it for the less than reputable info it is:
https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1616495626379730944?cxt=HHwWgICx9aSN-e4sAAAA (https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1616495626379730944?cxt=HHwWgICx9aSN-e4sAAAA)
McAfee: this was all bullshit.
https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1616549028896051200?s=20&t=7aqBpGOdaVplckpCo65FYQ (https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1616549028896051200?s=20&t=7aqBpGOdaVplckpCo65FYQ)
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 20, 2023, 04:43:02 PM
McAfee: this was all bullshit.Schultz is kind of a weird dude. Starbucks kid who turned himself into a fringe media personality. He does know some players in various sports so he has some contacts, but I dont know how trustworthy he is.
https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1616549028896051200?s=20&t=7aqBpGOdaVplckpCo65FYQ (https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1616549028896051200?s=20&t=7aqBpGOdaVplckpCo65FYQ)
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 20, 2023, 05:09:39 PM
Schultz is kind of a weird dude. Starbucks kid who turned himself into a fringe media personality. He does know some players in various sports so he has some contacts, but I dont know how trustworthy he is.
Yeah. He's weird. Hence me classifying the original report as less than reputable.
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2023, 05:38:00 PM
Schultz is kind of a weird dude. Starbucks kid who turned himself into a fringe media personality. He does know some players in various sports so he has some contacts, but I dont know how trustworthy he is.
Oh that Schultz? Presume son of?
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 20, 2023, 06:19:02 PM
Oh that Schultz? Presume son of?Yep.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2023, 07:20:31 PM
The only thing better after the midway mark was Garrett Wilson.
Stop the hyperbole unless you want to get sonned
Edit: if you actually believed this, then you should also believe that we should fire Joe Douglas ASAP
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2023, 07:22:43 PM
WR: Crowder
TE: Ryan Griffin
RB: Le’Veon Bell
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 20, 2023, 08:14:11 PM
Top weapons in 2019:Don't forget Robby Anderson.
WR: Crowder
TE: Ryan Griffin
RB: Le’Veon Bell
But don't worry. After that brutal 2019 skill group, Douglas replaced Anderson with Breshad Perriman and drafted Denzel Mims.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 08:14:58 PM
Stop the hyperbole unless you want to get sonned
Edit: if you actually believed this, then you should also believe that we should fire Joe Douglas ASAP
Injuries happened. The team crumbled around the QB.
Our offensive line this year was worse.
Bell and Gore were both better than Carter/Knight/Robinson.
We were more talented at TE this year, I’ll admit that.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 08:19:10 PM
Don't forget Robby Anderson.
But don't worry. After that brutal 2019 skill group, Douglas replaced Anderson with Breshad Perriman and drafted Denzel Mims.
Robby Anderson is a turd
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 20, 2023, 08:19:41 PM
Robby Anderson is a turdSo you agree 2019 was worse.
(that said, Zach's situation in the 2nd half was pretty bad)
Post by: delavan on January 20, 2023, 08:27:26 PM
100% it's the OCs job to develop the QB
There are guys you can potentially develop (ie Sanchez Darnold).
And then there's guys like Wilson, who probably have no business being in the NFL no matter what.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Broken_Record.jpg/240px-Broken_Record.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 08:33:17 PM
So you agree 2019 was worse.
(that said, Zach's situation in the 2nd half was pretty bad)
I just get why Douglas wanted to let him walk. He’s a turd in the locker room and proved that in two places now.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2023, 09:10:56 PM
Injuries happened. The team crumbled around the QB.
Our offensive line this year was worse.
Bell and Gore were both better than Carter/Knight/Robinson.
We were more talented at TE this year, I’ll admit that.
Our offensive pass protection graded out this year as average. I haven’t seen metrics on run blocking but I would be surprised if it isn’t in the bottom 10.
Our OLs with Darnold were horrific. I wasn’t a fan of this year’s group (after injuries), but it was still an upgrade. Unless you’re finally willing to admit that Chuma Edoga is good
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2023, 09:16:19 PM
I just get why Douglas wanted to let him walk. He’s a turd in the locker room and proved that in two places now.It's kinda funny that all the fans thought he made a huge mistake letting Anderson walk, then he came out a few months later and said he made a huge mistake, and now we're all like "nah you're good, turns out he's a dick".
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 20, 2023, 09:22:31 PM
It's kinda funny that all the fans thought he made a huge mistake letting Anderson walk, then he came out a few months later and said he made a huge mistake, and now we're all like "nah you're good, turns out he's a dick".Pretty much. Though I think the biggest issue was just not getting a good replacement. I didn't mind Perriman as a FA. I just thought we needed to get Perriman AND more.
It was easy to see why a staff might fall out of love with Robby/ie.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2023, 09:24:21 PM
It's kinda funny that all the fans thought he made a huge mistake letting Anderson walk, then he came out a few months later and said he made a huge mistake, and now we're all like "nah you're good, turns out he's a dick".
We only made a mistake letting Anderson walk because we replaced him with…?
Would anyone even know without looking it up?
We had very little talent back then and we let one of like the 2 guys that could score touchdowns go over a tiny bit of money we could have easily afforded.
I’m not dying on this hill because RA was a shithead. But we didn’t improve and it wasn’t some shrewd move that allowed us to give Darnold some elite weapon to throw to
Post by: Badger on January 21, 2023, 08:36:15 AM
White Geno.(https://media.tenor.com/nZTt6rD6HgAAAAAC/walter-white-shocked.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on January 21, 2023, 08:41:13 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 21, 2023, 10:51:32 AM
The OL went from potentially good to average to garbage as the season went on and injuries piled up. That's on JD but you also can't account for multiple catastrophic injuries.
That plus losing Breece contributed to complete failure of the ground game.
That put more pressure on the QB position, and Zach wasn't ready for it. LaFleur wasn't prepared to dumb down his playbook as needed for a QB that needs a lot of help. He never adjusted to the fact that he didn't have an elite QB on the roster and just kept pushing a square peg against a round hole.
It's like we made a meatloaf from dog excrement, horse excrement, and elephant excrement and we're trying to figure out which flavor is making it taste so bad.
Post by: insanity on January 21, 2023, 12:02:50 PM
This conversation has been going around in a chicken or the egg style for weeks, but I think that's oversimplifying.It's the elephant excrement. I'm 100% sure of it
The OL went from potentially good to average to garbage as the season went on and injuries piled up. That's on JD but you also can't account for multiple catastrophic injuries.
That plus losing Breece contributed to complete failure of the ground game.
That put more pressure on the QB position, and Zach wasn't ready for it. LaFleur wasn't prepared to dumb down his playbook as needed for a QB that needs a lot of help. He never adjusted to the fact that he didn't have an elite QB on the roster and just kept pushing a square peg against a round hole.
It's like we made a meatloaf from dog excrement, horse excrement, and elephant excrement and we're trying to figure out which flavor is making it taste so bad.
Post by: delavan on January 21, 2023, 03:39:53 PM
zach has additional issues to correct as well, my point being the mlf/calabrese tandem represent play calling and that's about it
Post by: Coach K on January 21, 2023, 04:31:58 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 08, 2023, 09:10:09 AM
How is Rex Hogan still employed at Florham Park?
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2023, 09:31:00 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 09:40:23 AM
It does make sense for the Jets to reset their expectations for him and treat him as if he was a mid round pick and just forget he was #2 overall. What's done is done, but he has tools you can't teach. Just treat him like the developmental QB he is. Go ahead and accept the draft loss. That's fine, but no sense in dumping him altogether just yet.
Dumping him all together makes perfect sense depending on what other QB move we make and if the compensation is right.
If we go out and get Rodgers, I think keeping Zach makes the most sense. If we go out and get Carr, we should really be trading Zach if it's for anything even approaching reasonable.
You have plenty of time until the draft to see what our QB situation looks like. So it makes very little sense to make any decisions on Zach before then
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 28, 2023, 02:47:37 PM
lol
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2023, 02:59:46 PM
https://twitter.com/DraftKings/status/1630638173205217297
lol
Looks like DraftKings tweets via ChatGPT now.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 28, 2023, 05:23:03 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 01:11:14 PM
And for the first time I have hope in him having an actual nfl career. I just don't think he will get that opportunity here
Post by: MBGreen on March 15, 2023, 01:12:59 PM
I've been the most negative person on Zach
And for the first time I have hope in him having an actual nfl career. I just don't think he will get that opportunity here
No way...not you?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 15, 2023, 01:15:09 PM
I've been the most negative person on Zach
That's a strange way to describe your fetish.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 01:16:02 PM
No way...not you?
If only I had wet dreams about Lamar to distract me from his badness
Post by: MBGreen on March 15, 2023, 01:17:09 PM
If only I had wet dreams about Lamar to distract me from his badness
I didn't know women could have a wet dreams.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 15, 2023, 01:18:39 PM
I've been the most negative person on Zach
And for the first time I have hope in him having an actual nfl career. I just don't think he will get that opportunity here
That doesn't make sense
If anything, this is the best thing that could've happened to Zach, other than if he'd read the book Saleh told him to and it transformed him into Steve Young
He and Rodgers are friends, he considers Rodgers a mentor, and now he's going to play behind him for the last few years of his career. If he's got any brains at all, he'll soak up every lesson and detail while being the backup
Post by: Badger on March 15, 2023, 01:21:20 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 01:22:28 PM
That doesn't make sense
If anything, this is the best thing that could've happened to Zach, other than if he'd read the book Saleh told him to and it transformed him into Steve Young
He and Rodgers are friends, he considers Rodgers a mentor, and now he's going to play behind him for the last few years of his career. If he's got any brains at all, he'll soak up every lesson and detail while being the backup
Maybe you misconstrued what I said
Yes this is the best thing that could happen to Zach. I believe this gives Zach hope at becoming a compent starting QB
I also believe because Zach is only under contract for 2 more years, that it has to be hard to imagine him ever starting games here. Unless you see a scenario where Rodgers only plays here for two years, and the Jets/Zach decide he's the QB of the future
I think it's most likely Zach does all those things you say. Then goes and finds a starting job anywhere else in free agency.
I suppose the biggest variable is will Rodgers want to/be able to play at a high level for more than 2 more seasons. And I imagine the answer to that is yes, meaning no Zach
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 15, 2023, 01:24:36 PM
I've defended Zach a lot, but I think the narrative that he's going to take over after Rodgers is done is a pipe dream. I really can't envision a good and successful transition.
Why? If they've got a good relationship, as long as Zach is willing to sit and learn, there are few arguments to be made against learning from a future HOF
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 15, 2023, 01:27:13 PM
Maybe you misconstrued what I said
Yes this is the best thing that could happen to Zach. I believe this gives Zach hope at becoming a compent starting QB
I also believe because Zach is only under contract for 2 more years, that it has to be hard to imagine him ever starting games here. Unless you see a scenario where Rodgers only plays here for two years, and the Jets/Zach decide he's the QB of the future
I think it's most likely Zach does all those things you say. Then goes and finds a starting job anywhere else in free agency.
I suppose the biggest variable is will Rodgers want to/be able to play at a high level for more than 2 more seasons. And I imagine the answer to that is yes, meaning no Zach
I can't see Rodgers playing more than a couple more years. He was going to retire this year until GB pissed him off
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 01:29:00 PM
I can't see Rodgers playing more than a couple more years. He was going to retire this year until GB pissed him off
The threshold isn't a couple more years though, it's two.
If Rodgers players more than 2 years here it's very difficult to imagine Zach signing a second contract here
And even if Rodgers only plays two years, the Jets would have to offer Zach the best contract on the market as he'd be a UFA.
Post by: reuben on March 15, 2023, 01:30:12 PM
I've defended Zach a lot, but I think the narrative that he's going to take over after Rodgers is done is a pipe dream. I really can't envision a good and successful transition.
Ship him to the Cardinals. Zach vs. Geno vs. Darnold vs. LaFleur.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 15, 2023, 01:33:40 PM
To me, there are 2 options
1. Trade Zach for whatever you can get. Sign some more competent backup, hopefully someone in his 20's, so we can maybe groom him to take over if things go well with him (or if we lack better options when Rodgers leaves).
2. Keep Zach as the primary backup and hope he can be competent enough in a backup role.
I don't think I would keep Zach AND sign someone else. Too many resources into backup QB. If Rodgers goes down, we are fucked anyway. And we went 5-4 with Zach last year, so it's not crazy to think we could go 2-2 with Zach if Rodgers misses a month. It's not like Kyle Allen is going to be much better.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 01:36:15 PM
Why? If they've got a good relationship, as long as Zach is willing to sit and learn, there are few arguments to be made against learning from a future HOF
As I've said in the other thread it's a contract thing
Zachs under contract for 2 more seasons.
So it's hard to imagine us either exercising his 5th year option, or him signing a second contract to continue to be Rodgers backup.
If Rodgers only plays two seasons here and no more. There's probably a good to very good shot Zach comes back as the starter. If Rodgers plays more than 2 years here I'd say the odds of Zach ever starting here are zero
And I have to imagine Rodgers intending on playing another 3-4 years.
Post by: ons on March 15, 2023, 01:37:37 PM
I've defended Zach a lot, but I think the narrative that he's going to take over after Rodgers is done is a pipe dream. I really can't envision a good and successful transition.
I don't think it's likely by a long shot, but Rodgers was really the only viable option that allows for a transition to be possible, given he could retire next year and supposedly has good rapport with Zach.
Post by: Badger on March 15, 2023, 01:44:24 PM
Why? If they've got a good relationship, as long as Zach is willing to sit and learn, there are few arguments to be made against learning from a future HOF
It can't hurt but it hardly makes him something to bet on post-Rodgers.
Let's say Rodgers has two full seasons as our QB and retires. Zach's contract is up at that point unless we've picked up his 5th year option, and why would we?
So if Zach hasn't started in two years, what do we do? What can you pay a guy like that? Would he even want to stay?
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 15, 2023, 01:46:55 PM
We can worry about that later.
It can't hurt but it hardly makes him something to bet on post-Rodgers.
Let's say Rodgers has two full seasons as our QB and retires. Zach's contract is up at that point unless we've picked up his 5th year option, and why would we?
So if Zach hasn't started in two years, what do we do? What can you pay a guy like that? Would he even want to stay?
Alex Smith got benched and injured several times with the 49ers, then he resigned there and was good.
Daniel Jones had his 5th-year declined then signed a huge deal.
If the Jets see improvement in Zach, maybe both sides will want to make it work. Not too many starting QB jobs out there.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 15, 2023, 01:50:35 PM
The threshold isn't a couple more years though, it's two.
If Rodgers players more than 2 years here it's very difficult to imagine Zach signing a second contract here
And even if Rodgers only plays two years, the Jets would have to offer Zach the best contract on the market as he'd be a UFA.
What's your definition of "a couple"?
Rodgers is playing 1 or 2 years here, dependent on winning the Super Bowl. Zach won't play while ARod is here, so it's hard to showcase anything and no one is signing him based on his current film.
I don't care one way or the other, because all the chips are in on Rodgers, but I believe this is the best thing to happen to Zach since he was drafted.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 01:51:45 PM
We can worry about that later.
Alex Smith got benched and injured several times with the 49ers, then he resigned there and was good.
Daniel Jones had his 5th-year declined then signed a huge deal.
If the Jets see improvement in Zach, maybe both sides will want to make it work. Not too many starting QB jobs out there.
There's at least a dozen teams who have a spot where a guy can at least compete for the starting job every season. There will always be a market for potential starters
The Daniel Jones thing doesn't seem pertinent in anyway here
And didn't Alex Smith re sign there to be the starter?
I think it's fairly cut and dry. If Rodgers plays more than 2 seasons Zach almost certainly will never start here again. If he plays exactly two or less
There's a better than fair shot Zach starts games here.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 15, 2023, 01:53:11 PM
As I've said in the other thread it's a contract thing
Zachs under contract for 2 more seasons.
So it's hard to imagine us either exercising his 5th year option, or him signing a second contract to continue to be Rodgers backup.
If Rodgers only plays two seasons here and no more. There's probably a good to very good shot Zach comes back as the starter. If Rodgers plays more than 2 years here I'd say the odds of Zach ever starting here are zero
And I have to imagine Rodgers intending on playing another 3-4 years.
No way Rodgers is playing 3, much less 4 more years. He was retiring two weeks ago before Green Bay publicly moved on from him while he sat in the dark
Post by: Badger on March 15, 2023, 01:54:24 PM
We can worry about that later.
Alex Smith got benched and injured several times with the 49ers, then he resigned there and was good.
Daniel Jones had his 5th-year declined then signed a huge deal.
If the Jets see improvement in Zach, maybe both sides will want to make it work. Not too many starting QB jobs out there.
But the only way, in my opinion, to see actual improvement is if he's playing, and if he's playing a meaningful number of snaps then something has gone wrong with Rodgers.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 15, 2023, 01:54:55 PM
It can't hurt but it hardly makes him something to bet on post-Rodgers.
Let's say Rodgers has two full seasons as our QB and retires. Zach's contract is up at that point unless we've picked up his 5th year option, and why would we?
So if Zach hasn't started in two years, what do we do? What can you pay a guy like that? Would he even want to stay?
Zach will still be on the practice field, so the team can gauge his progress over the next 2 years. They should have sufficient data by one year from now whether they'll want him to be part of the future
Post by: Johnny English on March 15, 2023, 01:55:44 PM
I didn't know women could have a wet dreams.
Oh you poor sheltered little thing....
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
No way Rodgers is playing 3, much less 4 more years. He was retiring two weeks ago before Green Bay publicly moved on from him while he sat in the dark
I think 3 or 4 is a fair expectation for Rodgers if he's healthy, playing good, and actually starting a enjoying the game again.
Given his relationship with Hackett, and the fact he's already probably the second most powerful member of the Jets front office. I think it's very reasonable that he starts enjoying it
You have to remember his time in Green Bay when they basically did nothing to upgrade around him. And now we're bending over spreading our cheeks for him
Post by: MBGreen on March 15, 2023, 01:56:46 PM
Oh you poor sheltered little thing....
are you saying dcm squirts during the night without having male junk?
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 01:57:51 PM
Zach will still be on the practice field, so the team can gauge his progress over the next 2 years. They should have sufficient data by one year from now whether they'll want him to be part of the future
Are you suggesting there's a viable scenario you see where the FO uses the 5th year option on Zach?
Because barring Rodgers getting hurt and Zach lighting it up next year. I'd put those odds at a solid 0%
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 15, 2023, 02:00:12 PM
I think 3 or 4 is a fair expectation for Rodgers if he's healthy, playing good, and actually starting a enjoying the game again.
Given his relationship with Hackett, and the fact he's already probably the second most powerful member of the Jets front office. I think it's very reasonable that he starts enjoying it
You have to remember his time in Green Bay when they basically did nothing to upgrade around him. And now we're bending over spreading our cheeks for him
If Rodgers plays 3 or more years here, it's because he's already won a title or two and wants to keep driving home the point, in which case, I don't care if Zach is here tossing his salad or somewhere else
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 02:02:32 PM
If Rodgers plays 3 or more years here, it's because he's already won a title or two and wants to keep driving home the point, in which case, I don't care if Zach is here tossing his salad or somewhere else
Or it could simply be because this team is good, competitive, and has shown Rodgers he has pull with the front office and is willing to spend on assets so Rodgers can win now.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 15, 2023, 02:06:27 PM
Are you suggesting there's a viable scenario you see where the FO uses the 5th year option on Zach?
Because barring Rodgers getting hurt and Zach lighting it up next year. I'd put those odds at a solid 0%
They don't need to exercise the option, they can extend him if they feel he's progressing behind the scenes
Again, I don't really care. All I care about right now is cheering for QAron in February
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 02:09:55 PM
They don't need to exercise the option, they can extend him if they feel he's progressing behind the scenes
Again, I don't really care. All I care about right now is cheering for QAron in February
I don't understand why Zach Wilson would do this
But fair enough.
Having an actual nfl QB is exciting enough that whatever happens with Zach happens
Post by: delavan on March 15, 2023, 09:09:23 PM
Quote from: MBGreen
I didn't know women could have a wet dreams.major burn MB
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Larry_Linville_Major_Frank_Burns_MASH_1972.JPG/184px-Larry_Linville_Major_Frank_Burns_MASH_1972.JPG)
are you saying dcm squirts during the night without having male junk?....yr on a roll....
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/LD-Swiss-Cake-Rolls.jpg/320px-LD-Swiss-Cake-Rolls.jpg)
Quote from: AlioTheFool
Why? If they've got a good relationship, as long as Zach is willing to sit and learn, there are few arguments to be made against learning from a future HOFExactly and just leave it at that. At this point nobody's thinking about whether Zach should be viewed as a viable successor or how many years Rogers can be expected to play let alone making mention of dAniEl jOnEs and aLeX sMiTh..... that's for down the road. For now, Zach's collecting a check and it would obviously serve him well to try and be a sponge in the quarterback room, on the sidelines and anytime and anywhere, period.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2023, 09:54:57 PM
If be is great
If he's not, you should probably trade him and draft a guy to sit behind Rodgers for a few years.
This team has been in QB purgatory because of poor planning. Makes sense to plan ahead
Odds are that a 2nd or 3rd round QB won't be the QB of the future, but at least it's a warm body under contract that has a chance to be developed
Post by: reuben on March 15, 2023, 09:56:15 PM
Odds are that a 2nd or 3rd round QB won't be the QB of the future, but at least it's a warm body under contract that has a chance to be developed
Stop.
Post by: Coach K on March 15, 2023, 10:29:56 PM
Post by: Jumbo on March 15, 2023, 10:34:31 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 16, 2023, 05:12:57 AM
We need to be using as many resources as possible on competing while our window is open. We can worry about QB again when we no longer have Rodgers.
This is exactly correct. Every dollar we can spend, needs to be spent. Every draft asset we have needs to be utilized to make us as good as we can be. Is it more worth it to take a 5th round DT project or trade that 5th for a proven DT somewhere in the league? Those are real questions JD needs to be asking himself as he goes hunting for improvements to the team.
Post by: Badger on March 16, 2023, 06:20:07 AM
This is exactly correct. Every dollar we can spend, needs to be spent. Every draft asset we have needs to be utilized to make us as good as we can be. Is it more worth it to take a 5th round DT project or trade that 5th for a proven DT somewhere in the league? Those are real questions JD needs to be asking himself as he goes hunting for improvements to the team.Time to start considering those 25 year old rookies.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 16, 2023, 08:13:53 AM
I'm not talking about drafting a 3rd QB early
The reality is if Zach has to start for an extended period of time we're fucked. How many random nobody QB's did we see outplay Zach on this roster?
In terms of outcomes I don't imagine Zach vs a 3rd round QB making a world of difference
Post by: delavan on March 16, 2023, 11:35:10 AM
Of course you should be thinking aboutNo I don’t.whether Zach is a viable successor
If be is great
If he's not, you should probably trade him and draft a guy to sit behind Rodgers for a few years.
This team has been in QB purgatory because of poor planning. Makes sense to plan ahead
Odds are that a 2nd or 3rd round QB won't be the QB of the future, but at least it's a warm body under contract that has a chance to be developed
Right now I’m not planing on a “what if?” And btw if we’re screwed should hZach have to start an extended number of games (i.e. if Rogers goes down) then the same “screwed” argument can be made for the Chiefs, the Bills, the 49’ers (see last year’s conference championship game), etc etc…generally speaking, you lose your starting QB you’re screwed.
Additionally, your ‘I hate Zach’ after 50k gets tiresome…enough ty
Right now the Jets have to worry about GB sitting on Rocers until after June 1st to shrink his cap number.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 13, 2023, 09:04:46 PM
As someone who still hopes that Zach is the one to take over for Rodgers and succeed in a year or two, I found this interview really encouraging.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 13, 2023, 09:16:51 PM
https://twitter.com/richeisenshow/status/1646347811695493120?s=46&t=ZNQYid0cwYc7XYhInMbqIQ
As someone who still hopes that Zach is the one to take over for Rodgers and succeed in a year or two, I found this interview really encouraging.
Beck certainly is saying all the right things. But he is right, it’s on Wilson to get his excrement fixed. He has tons of talent, clearly, we’ve seen the small flashes. But if he can’t put it together, it doesn’t matter. If he does get himself fixed, it would be a historic turn around, literally a 1 of 1 situation that it’s ever happened in nfl history. Obviously the best thing for us is that he does figure it out, but in reality it’s extremely unlikely he ever does it, and even less so that he does it here. That doesn’t change the fact that the best thing for us is that Zach does make the miracle turn around by working with Rodgers.
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 14, 2023, 05:03:48 PM
And we went 5-4 with Zach last year, so it's not crazy to think we could go 2-2 with Zach if Rodgers misses a month.
we had must win games on the line at the end of the season and zach stunk it up so bad that streveler, who is not an NFL level QB, was legitimately an improvement.
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 14, 2023, 05:12:13 PM
he has pee poor mechanics that get worse any time any sort of pressure is perceived, he doesn't learn from his mistakes, and he doesn't have the mental capacity to process the game at the nfl level. the pressure is so much for him that he forgets the very plays that he calls.
aaron rodgers is not 'reversing' this. the offseason is introducing a lot of rosy retrospection to the zach wilson narrative.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 14, 2023, 06:56:07 PM
this kid isn't going to make it. the only reason why he's still on the team is because of his 1st round contract and the fact that nobody would trade for him.
he has pee poor mechanics that get worse any time any sort of pressure is perceived, he doesn't learn from his mistakes, and he doesn't have the mental capacity to process the game at the nfl level. the pressure is so much for him that he forgets the very plays that he calls.
aaron rodgers is not 'reversing' this. the offseason is introducing a lot of rosy retrospection to the zach wilson narrative.
I'd imagine the odds of Zach being good are not good
But Geno Smith
Post by: dcm1602 on April 17, 2023, 03:37:54 PM
Quote
Rich Cimini
For those wondering, QB Zach Wilson IS present today for the first day of the #Jets off-season program, per source.
April 17, 2023 2:59pm EDT
Post by: Libero_2 on April 17, 2023, 04:43:30 PM
Soon to be champs
Wtf was he gonna do? He knows he’s gotta show up eventually, might as well be today. Any chance he has of saving his career comes down to how hard he works this offseason, and season to come. Better be all in every damn minute of every day
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 25, 2023, 01:56:07 PM
I've always thought one benefit of Rodgers is that it allows Wilson to develop behind someone he respects. No shame on being benched for Aaron Rodgers.
It still seems highly unlikely that Zach ever works out here. And Zach's contract situation will be an issue if we do actually plan on developing him behind Aaron.
But if Zach Wilson is ever going to develop into an NFL quarterback, he clearly needs to sit, watch, learn, and be humbled.
I am fine with him as the QB2 though. I know a lot of people are nervous about him being the backup if Rodgers goes down, but as long as Wilson can rightfully beat out Tim Boyle in camp, I think he's fine as a QB2. It's risky, but if Rodgers goes down for a long period of time, Teddy Bridgewater isn't saving us.
Post by: reuben on April 25, 2023, 05:30:36 PM
Glad Wilson appears to be on board with training behind Rodgers.
I've always thought one benefit of Rodgers is that it allows Wilson to develop behind someone he respects. No shame on being benched for Aaron Rodgers.
It still seems highly unlikely that Zach ever works out here. And Zach's contract situation will be an issue if we do actually plan on developing him behind Aaron.
But if Zach Wilson is ever going to develop into an NFL quarterback, he clearly needs to sit, watch, learn, and be humbled.
I am fine with him as the QB2 though. I know a lot of people are nervous about him being the backup if Rodgers goes down, but as long as Wilson can rightfully beat out Tim Boyle in camp, I think he's fine as a QB2. It's risky, but if Rodgers goes down for a long period of time, Teddy Bridgewater isn't saving us.
I need a capable veteran on the roster. We have a 40-year-old quarterback, it's not inconceivable he misses a two-game stretch at some point in the season. Losing those or splitting those might be the difference between home and away playoff games.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 25, 2023, 05:44:55 PM
I need a capable veteran on the roster. We have a 40-year-old quarterback, it's not inconceivable he misses a two-game stretch at some point in the season. Losing those or splitting those might be the difference between home and away playoff games.
Tim Boyle, bitches
Post by: Badger on April 25, 2023, 06:41:55 PM
I'd imagine the odds of Zach being good are not goodMicheal Clemons must break Zach's face to unleash his full potential.
But Geno Smith
Post by: dcm1602 on April 25, 2023, 08:13:37 PM
And presumably conditionals usually only apply to the regular season?
Post by: Heismanberg on April 25, 2023, 08:21:29 PM
How many games does Zach have to play for us to salvage our 1st? 6?
And presumably conditionals usually only apply to the regular season?
KYS
Post by: Jumbo on April 25, 2023, 08:29:43 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 25, 2023, 08:30:51 PM
How many games does Zach have to play for us to salvage our 1st? 6?
And presumably conditionals usually only apply to the regular season?
This is the most bass ackwards thought I’ve seen on the trade. It’s over, the compensation is decided. It might not be what you wanted (and certainly more than I wanted to pay), but it’s done. The Jets are giving up a 2024 first round pick. So either get over that, or get off the bandwagon that’s about to be loaded down with randoms hopping on board.
Rodgers is a Jet, and the packers will have 2 2024 first rounders barring some unspeakable setback. That doesn’t mean we can’t build, that we can’t add to the roster or that the future is lost. We protected ourself in the event we are really awful due to a Rodgers injury, but beyond that, we are giving up that pick.
Focus on what Rodgers brings to the table, because it’s about to be something that we’ve never even fathomed a green and white QB could do.
Post by: Badger on April 25, 2023, 08:32:47 PM
How many games does Zach have to play for us to salvage our 1st? 6?
And presumably conditionals usually only apply to the regular season?
Personally I hope Zach Wilson plays 6 games for the Jets in lieu of Aaron Rodgers playing for the Jets. That should be good for the Jets.Zach did win 6 games last year. We simply make sure that he only starts 6 winning games this season and let Rodgers start the rest.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 25, 2023, 08:49:11 PM
Post by: Coach K on April 25, 2023, 08:50:35 PM
How many games does Zach have to play for us to salvage our 1st? 6?Lol is this serious
And presumably conditionals usually only apply to the regular season?
Post by: Coach K on April 25, 2023, 08:51:02 PM
You know
To utilize more draft capital
Post by: dcm1602 on April 25, 2023, 09:53:53 PM
But realistically there could be a scenario where it's week 16/17/18 and we're locked in as a wildcard with the division out of reach (ie the Bills sweep us and have a stupid good record)
So if Rodgers misses anytime whatsoever, there could be a scenario where you consider putting Zach in for a game or two could be a difference maker.
Obviously you're not going to tank 6 weeks otherwise this whole thing is stupid
Post by: Coach K on April 25, 2023, 09:57:20 PM
Let's be real here lol
Post by: MBGreen on April 26, 2023, 07:56:27 AM
Quote
Albert Breer
@AlbertBreer
·
18h
Jets GM Joe Douglas spoke today about Zach Wilson learning behind Aaron Rodgers, and sources say Wilson has been very receptive to the idea of a redshirt year or two. The coaches have been open with him on the plan, and good dialogue has followed on it.
So Wilson's on board.
Zach has the physical traits to be an nfl calibre QB, he just has to develop his mental game. He was freaking terrible for us, but i'm not ready to write him off. I want to see where this goes. I know dcm will love seeing this process through.
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 26, 2023, 08:08:06 AM
Zach has the physical traits to be an nfl calibre QB, he just has to develop his mental game. He was freaking terrible for us, but i'm not ready to write him off. I want to see where this goes. I know dcm will love seeing this process through.
This was my hope from the moment Rodgers became a thought. Zach learning behind someone he already respects and likes, who is a future first-ballot HOF, can only help.
Maybe he doesn't pan out. But if he ever will, this is the best possible way to go about making it happen.
Post by: MBGreen on April 26, 2023, 08:49:34 AM
This was my hope from the moment Rodgers became a thought. Zach learning behind someone he already respects and likes, who is a future first-ballot HOF, can only help.
Maybe he doesn't pan out. But if he ever will, this is the best possible way to go about making it happen.
100% agreed
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 26, 2023, 08:55:55 AM
Post by: MBGreen on April 26, 2023, 09:04:15 AM
The people holding out hope for Zach Wilson to be good one day is the funniest thing on this board since the people who legitimately thought Zach Wilson was going to be good when we drafted him.
there's hope because Zach was hitched to an amateur rube for an OC and was doomed from the start.
It may never click for him, but with a new OC and Rodgers on board, i want to see how Zach responds. He's still young enough to turn it around...like Alex Smith.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 26, 2023, 09:32:33 AM
The people holding out hope for Zach Wilson to be good one day is the funniest thing on this board since the people who legitimately thought Zach Wilson was going to be good when we drafted him.
Geno Smith just won comeback player of the year
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 26, 2023, 10:08:37 AM
The people holding out hope for Zach Wilson to be good one day is the funniest thing on this board since the people who legitimately thought Zach Wilson was going to be good when we drafted him.
With anyone else coming in, I'd have written Zach off. But this is a unique situation. They're already friends, Rodgers isn't looking over his shoulder, and Rodgers probably remembers what it's like to be behind a HOF who is a dick.
Again, it may not pan out with Zach. But if there's any chance it will, this is the only way it would ever happen. Good news is, the staff will know by the next time we have a first-round pick if it needs to be spent on a QB.
Post by: Coach K on April 26, 2023, 01:38:23 PM
With anyone else coming in, I'd have written Zach off. But this is a unique situation. They're already friends, Rodgers isn't looking over his shoulder, and Rodgers probably remembers what it's like to be behind a HOF who is a dick.This
Again, it may not pan out with Zach. But if there's any chance it will, this is the only way it would ever happen. Good news is, the staff will know by the next time we have a first-round pick if it needs to be spent on a QB.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 26, 2023, 01:40:47 PM
However, if you told me we were signing a 23-year old former top-3 pick to be the backup, I would be on board with that.
Post by: Laxin on April 26, 2023, 01:44:39 PM
Geno Smith just won comeback player of the year
I think this is probably the best argument. Everyone on this board thought Geno was the worst, and rightfully so. If Geno Smith can become a starting QB and win comeback player of the year, it's possible Zach can recover. Very unlikely, but not impossible.
Post by: Coach K on April 26, 2023, 01:47:35 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 26, 2023, 02:24:51 PM
Post by: Badger on April 26, 2023, 05:57:50 PM
https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt/status/1651301929476055040No idea what this means but I approve.
Post by: reuben on April 26, 2023, 06:18:50 PM
https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt/status/1651301929476055040
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/8fxad4tvqIzwk/giphy.gif)
Post by: delavan on April 26, 2023, 06:33:39 PM
Quote from: Derek Smalls
https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt/status/1651301929476055040
Reach out to him AR...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/pjV72gkTs7yl8eFrZv/giphy.gif)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/Iron_Maiden_-_Fear_Of_The_Dark.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqLRd4neGGE
.
Post by: IATA on April 26, 2023, 06:55:18 PM
That's my qb baby
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 26, 2023, 07:37:40 PM
Yo is Aaron offering the mormon kid drugs?Nah, he's just gonna bang Zach's mom.
That's my qb baby
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 26, 2023, 09:07:48 PM
Yo is Aaron offering the mormon kid drugs?
That's my qb baby
Zach should do some LSD because he's kind of an poopchute.
Post by: Badger on April 26, 2023, 09:33:32 PM
"I gotta hand it to you, kid, that was some impressive stuff," said Rodgers.
"Thanks, but really it's all thanks to you," replied Zach. "You helped me out so much, I couldn't have done it without you!"
"We're in this together, Zach. Don't forget that."
Wilson looked nervous, all of a sudden. He gulped.
"Aaron, I've been meaning to tell you something... I don't exactly know how to put this..."
Rodgers smiled. "Don't worry, I know. You've been banging my mother."
Wilson looked shocked. "How... wait, did she tell you?"
"No, but I could see the twinkle in your eye when you first met her. And she always gets a little distracted when I mention you at the dinner table, gazing in the distance."
Wilson froze.
"And don't worry, Zach. I'm not mad. Don't you break her heart, though!"
Wilson laughed. "Of course not!"
Rodgers started to walk into the shower. He took his jersey and gear off, revealing his beautiful, chiseled abs. The sweat on his chest glistened off the locker room lights. On top of that, he had arms of a champion, and even his shoulders looked gorgeous. Wilson started to blush a little bit.
Rodgers stopped, and without turning around to look at Wilson, said "you know, I can see why my mother would fall in love with you."
Wilson blushed even more. "What... what do you mean by that, Aaron?"
"Oh Zach, look at you. Those arms, those legs, your confidence... you're hard to look away from."
Wilson was speechless.
Rodgers turned around. "Zach. Why don't you step into the showers? You must be sweating in that hot uniform."
"Aaron," Zach replied, "just what are you saying?"
"I think you know exactly what I'm saying, Zach."
Wilson stepped forward and removed his uniform, too. He stood nervous in the showers, waiting for Rodgers to fully undress.
Rodgers lowered his pants. His lower body was even more gorgeous. His tight legs and his supple thighs almost glowed under the lights. However, it was impossible to look away from his penis. It had to have been the biggest Wilson had ever seen.
"I know, Zach. I'm no Nick Foles."
"No, no, it's... it's perfect," stammered Wilson.
With a quick sway of his hips, Rodgers swung his schlong in a loop, drawing even more attention to its glory.
"There's more than one reason that when people mention Rodgers, they also mention helicopters.
"Now, be a good backup and let me kiss you."
Wilson was blushing, but his eyes were full of lust. "Am I dreaming?" he thought to himself. Either way, he was begging for that dream to come true.
"But wait," said Wilson. "We're in the middle of the showers, all the other players will see us!"
Rodgers laughed. "Zach, nearly all NFL players are a little gay."
"We get paid millions of dollars to bump and rub against sweaty strong men, it's hard not to be into it!" yelled Corey Davis from across the locker room.
Wilson could no longer control himself. He rushed forward and planted a kiss right onto Rodgers lips. He quickly was embarrassed, thinking he was too forward, but Aaron just smiled and pulled him back for a more intense, passionate kiss. It was pure ecstasy for the two: after all the waiting through training camp and the preseason, they could finally express their lust for each other.
Rodgers stepped back. "Now, why don't you find out why they call me Pound Town Aaron."
Wilson couldn't contain his enthusiasm.
Rodgers saw the enthusiasm clear as day. "Zach, why don't you be a good backup and, well, back up?"
Wilson was suddenly a little nervous. What if he couldn't handle himself? Would Rodgers be mad? He didn't have too much time to worry before Aaron asserted his dominance and penetrated, while also providing a reach-around.
"It's important to be a team player," Rodgers said.
Wilson took it like a champ. Turns out that Ja'Marr Chase was not the best receiver in the draft after all.
After several minutes of overwhelming bliss, they both arrived at a climax together, with the most powerful orgasm they had ever experienced.
Wilson suddenly was a little nervous. "What if your mother finds out?"
Rodgers smirked. "This will be our little secret. Just you and me and the entire Jets roster."
Wilson was beaming. He blurted out, "we need to do this again sometime!"
Rodgers put his hand on his shoulder. "I'll kiss you for every touchdown I throw."
And that, folks, is why Aaron Rodgers threw for 60 touchdowns in 2023 and led the Jets to the Super Bowl.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 26, 2023, 09:39:48 PM
Post by: reuben on April 26, 2023, 09:43:00 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on April 26, 2023, 10:03:11 PM
It's really gun watching everyone talk themselves into believing that having Aaron Rodgers start ahead of Zach will lead to him turning it around while simultaneously believing Jordan Love will be absolute garbage.
We can all agree it's incredibly unlikely that Zach is ever anything but a giant pile of excrement
But what are some of the more comparable scenarios that have happened in the past where you had QB drafted near the top of a draft play like absolute dog excrement for less than 2 seasons, and then spend 2 seasons on the bench behind one of the all time great QB's?
Nobody comes to mind so I'll go out and assume that the vast majority of them continue to be complete dog excrement
But I'd also guess it probably doesn't happen often
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 26, 2023, 10:09:21 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 27, 2023, 06:35:58 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on April 27, 2023, 06:52:57 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 27, 2023, 08:08:05 AM
And who cares anyway? It's all about the Aaron Rodgers show right now.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 27, 2023, 09:33:34 AM
KEEP WRITING BADGER I'M ALMOST THERElmaoooo
Post by: Badger on April 27, 2023, 05:10:38 PM
Hahahaha, that story was amazing. I genuinely laughed a couple of times.The original was Darnold/McCown
Post by: MBGreen on May 23, 2023, 10:36:31 AM
stick to him like glue, young padawan.
Post by: Johnny English on August 02, 2023, 07:25:10 PM
If AARod comes in here, wins us a ring, and then rides off into the sunset leaving us with a well groomed successor, we're building a statue to that freaking man.
Post by: AlioTheFool on August 02, 2023, 07:30:05 PM
https://twitter.com/NYJetsTFMedia/status/1686454706548129799
If AARod comes in here, wins us a ring, and then rides off into the sunset leaving us with a well groomed successor, we're building a statue to that freaking man.
That was the hope for many of us, right?
But I wouldn't put too much stock in anything Rodgers says about Zach at this point. They're friends and teammates. Aaron's a walking fluff piece for Wilson right now.
Still, it would be amazing.
Post by: Johnny English on August 02, 2023, 07:35:12 PM
That was the hope for many of us, right?It's the offseason. Let me freaking dream please.
But I wouldn't put too much stock in anything Rodgers says about Zach at this point. They're friends and teammates. Aaron's a walking fluff piece for Wilson right now.
Still, it would be amazing.
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 02, 2023, 07:43:36 PM
It's the offseason. Let me freaking dream please.
dream about other things. time is making you forget what you saw last year.
this kid is not making it
Post by: MBGreen on August 02, 2023, 08:25:27 PM
dream about other things. time is making you forget what you saw last year.
this kid is not making it
you are wrong
Post by: AlioTheFool on August 02, 2023, 08:40:06 PM
It's the offseason. Let me freaking dream please.
Hey, it's been my dream too. Since even before I thought we had a realistic shot at Rodgers.
Post by: MBGreen on August 13, 2023, 07:23:07 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 13, 2023, 07:54:39 PM
the bright lights will turn back on, high pressure environments will return, he'll play against actual 1s and his mind / mechanics / decision making will all go to mush again
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 13, 2023, 08:09:50 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 13, 2023, 09:29:41 PM
He looks like Zach from the last 2 preseasons, which isn't necessarily bad, but we're all scarred from when the lights are on.
He sucked derriere last preseason and then hurt his knee
Post by: MBGreen on August 14, 2023, 07:35:33 AM
He looks like Zach from the last 2 preseasons, which isn't necessarily bad, but we're all scarred from when the lights are on.
the lights never came on with MLF in charge.
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 12:54:57 AM
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 12:57:04 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 12:59:06 AM
I get trying to be positive but to me Zach looked exactly like he did during the first half of last season. Hopefully he still has it in him to develop further.
He looked exactly like that guy and he'll be the same player to me until he shows he isn't. He didn't cost us the game today but he wasn't great, either.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2023, 01:00:16 AM
I get trying to be positive but to me Zach looked exactly like he did during the first half of last season. Hopefully he still has it in him to develop further.If Zach can play like he did in the first half, we can win.
He just can't play like he did in the second half.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 01:04:02 AM
If Zach can play like he did in the first half, we can win.
He just can't play like he did in the second half.
For reference
1st Half Zach: Kinda Shitty
2nd Half Zach: Unplayable
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 01:05:30 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2023, 01:09:02 AM
For referenceWe made 2 AFC title games with someone who fluctuated between kinda shitty and unplayable.
1st half Zach: Kinda Shitty
2nd Hakf Zach: Unplayable
I just don't think there is a quarterback out there who doesn't fluctuate between kinda shitty and unplayable. I would like an upgrade over Boyle, but I don't think there's a real answer out there that we can win at the highest level with. I think we rely on the 24-year old former top-5 pick who has been groomed by Aaron Rodgers. Jameis is the only guy I can really think of that has legitimate upside, but that's about it, and he's been a turnover machine his whole career. I would prefer a backup better than Tim Boyle, like Mike White was, but if there was someone out there good enough to win a Super Bowl with, he would most likely be starting somewhere.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 01:09:09 AM
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 01:17:48 AM
We made 2 AFC title games with someone who fluctuated between kinda shitty and unplayable.I feel like Brissett fluctuates between kinda good and kinda shitty.
I just don't think there is a quarterback out there who doesn't fluctuate between kinda shitty and unplayable.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 08:38:58 AM
Damien Woody knows
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 08:42:37 AM
They can't do what Mike LaFleur tried to do here. You can't just call plays and expect the QB to execute, no matter who is under center. They have to adapt the offense to his strengths: cut the field in half and let him use his legs.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 12, 2023, 08:44:25 AM
I feel like Brissett fluctuates between kinda good and kinda shitty.
Which is materially better than Zach's permanent status of always shitty
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 12, 2023, 08:46:02 AM
The pressure is on Nathaniel Hackett and Todd Downing now.
They can't do what Mike LaFleur tried to do here. You can't just call plays and expect the QB to execute, no matter who is under center. They have to adapt the offense to his strengths: cut the field in half and let him use his legs.
for some reason Zach can't figure this out. IIRC he ran forward once last night...maybe twice. Majority of his runs are backwards, then followed up by making a poor decision to throw the ball up for grabs.
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 08:48:47 AM
Which is materially better than Zach's permanent status of always shittyI cannot refute this.
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 08:49:32 AM
The pressure is on Nathaniel Hackett and Todd Downing now.I actually miss the designed rollouts of the Sanchez era. Some credit to Schotty I guess.
They can't do what Mike LaFleur tried to do here. You can't just call plays and expect the QB to execute, no matter who is under center. They have to adapt the offense to his strengths: cut the field in half and let him use his legs.
I feel like we never saw Darnold or Wilson getting those play calls.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 08:50:04 AM
https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=38384899
Damien Woody knows
This is (sadly) the way.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 08:51:04 AM
for some reason Zach can't figure this out. IIRC he ran forward once last night...maybe twice. Majority of his runs are backwards, then followed up by making a poor decision to throw the ball up for grabs.
When I say let him use his legs, I don't mean avoiding the rush. That's probably his worst trait as a QB.
They need to use him on bootlegs and designed runs. On the TD drive, it looked like Hackett called a speed option and Wilson picked up 6 yards. If you move him by design, he doesn't have to hang around in the pocket and then excrement himself when he's pressured.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 08:51:53 AM
I actually miss the designed rollouts of the Sanchez era. Some credit to Schotty I guess.
I feel like we never saw Darnold or Wilson getting those play calls.
We had that beautiful boot throwback to CJ Uzomah for a TD last year and then never called it again
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 08:52:33 AM
When I say let him use his legs, I don't mean avoiding the rush. That's probably his worst trait as a QB.
They need to use him on bootlegs and designed runs. On the TD drive, it looked like Hackett called a speed option and Wilson picked up 6 yards. If you move him by design, he doesn't have to hang around in the pocket and then excrement himself when he's pressured.
And honestly we have no business treating him like a china doll. Let him use his legs on more than broken plays.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 08:52:37 AM
When I say let him use his legs, I don't mean avoiding the rush. That's probably his worst trait as a QB.
We talk about QBs elevating players but Zach Wilson actively makes the offensive line worse.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 08:53:52 AM
We talk about QBs elevating players but Zach Wilson actively makes the offensive line worse.
I'd need to watch it again, but I didn't really see him create pressure for himself last night.
Buffalo has a great front and they were living in our backfield. I just wish Wilson wouldn't retreat the way that he does.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 12, 2023, 09:00:12 AM
The pressure is on Nathaniel Hackett and Todd Downing now.
They can't do what Mike LaFleur tried to do here. You can't just call plays and expect the QB to execute, no matter who is under center. They have to adapt the offense to his strengths: cut the field in half and let him use his legs.
When do you think we'll see the first attempt at PA? Black Friday?
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 09:13:49 AM
https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1701438233878380800 (https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1701438233878380800)
That's our QB.
So do we just elevate Tim Boyle to be the backup and pick up some other FA to be the PS QB or does Boyle stay on the PS and we sign someone else to be the primary backup?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 09:17:16 AM
When do you think we'll see the first attempt at PA? Black Friday?
I'm not sure what to make of this offense yet. I'm certain the first several drives were scripted for Rodgers last night and the team reps those plays all week in practice. That entire gameplan got tossed when he went down.
Wilson wasn't great last night, but given the circumstances, he really stepped up as a backup QB. That was a strong performance by a backup QB.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 12, 2023, 09:17:47 AM
Hughes from last night:
https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1701438233878380800 (https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1701438233878380800)
That's our QB.
So do we just elevate Tim Boyle to be the backup and pick up some other FA to be the PS QB or does Boyle stay on the PS and we sign someone else to be the primary backup?
Well to be fair, there really is no other option, currently.
That changes the moment JD brings in someone better
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 09:18:20 AM
So do we just elevate Tim Boyle to be the backup and pick up some other FA to be the PS QB or does Boyle stay on the PS and we sign someone else to be the primary backup?
I think Boyle is the backup this week. Too quick of a turnaround to add someone and expect them to dress.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 09:20:25 AM
I think Boyle is the backup this week. Too quick of a turnaround to add someone and expect them to dress.
Yea, you right.
Well to be fair, there really is no other option, currently.
That changes the moment JD brings in someone better
(https://media.tenor.com/rwplrVlY2xoAAAAd/letterkenny-to-be-fair.gif)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 09:21:21 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 12, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
I'm not sure what to make of this offense yet. I'm certain the first several drives were scripted for Rodgers last night and the team reps those plays all week in practice. That entire gameplan got tossed when he went down.
Wilson wasn't great last night, but given the circumstances, he really stepped up as a backup QB. That was a strong performance by a backup QB.
I've been a bigger Zach supporter than most. I was even happy for him when we got Rodgers because I thought it could help him save his career. It's a real uphill climb from here now, but I'm hopeful he can "not lose" games, even if he doesn't necessarily win them.
Good point regarding gameplan, but I still can't fathom why we didn't see a single play fake last night. The run is nearly unstoppable and ZW had zero time to throw on passing plays. All it takes is one or two playactions to make a defense think about it the rest of the game. It's not like we didn't see him literally practicing it on Hard Knocks.
This week will be the instant litmus test for Hackett.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 01:42:10 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 01:42:44 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 01:45:52 PM
I’ve decided to become a die hard Zach Wilson supporter. Not because I have to. Because I want to.
LETS RIDE
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 01:48:32 PM
Plan ZWe're getting tattoos
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 01:54:34 PM
Quote
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
1h
From The Insiders on NFL+ and @nflnetwork
: Zach Wilson threw an interception last night. Nathaniel Hackett calmly told him to let it go and move on. After that, Wilson went 9-for-13 for 99 yards and a TD. A good sign for the #Jets’ starting QB moving forward.
MLF could never....
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 01:55:32 PM
MLF could never....
Wonder what LaFleur would say to him last season.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 01:57:30 PM
Wonder what LaFleur would say to him last season.
"Get ready, we're going 5 wide empty on 4th and inches!"
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 02:00:02 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 12, 2023, 02:00:54 PM
Pick wasn’t even that bad IMHO
TD pass wasn't even remotely good
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 02:02:37 PM
TD pass wasn't even remotely good
He put it where only GW could get it. That’s my QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 02:07:25 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 02:28:02 PM
He put it where only GW could get it. That’s my QB.
Wilson had to tip it away from the defender before he could even start making a circus catch.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 02:34:48 PM
(https://imgbb.com/)
Hide your Moms
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 02:36:08 PM
Wilson had to tip it away from the defender before he could even start making a circus catch.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go back to this in week 2.
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 02:48:56 PM
I didn't know dcm was in the stands last night
Post by: reuben on September 12, 2023, 03:00:33 PM
Plan Z
Five honks
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2023, 03:09:43 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 04:07:28 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 12, 2023, 05:13:31 PM
Wonder what LaFleur would say to him last season.
'Zach, why did you throw that pass?' followed by silence followed by lafleur running up another horrible play call
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 12, 2023, 05:33:25 PM
i think hackett can be that guy for him. was quite obvious that he is that kind of coordinator from hard knocks / 1JD. lafleur was/is not.
hopefully hackett finds ways to put him in positions to succeed. gets blamed for the broncos mess last year, finds a way to lead zach and the jets to success this year despite the odds. hackett redemption arc.
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 05:50:13 PM
i am not a fan of zach and i think he has some glaring deficiencies, but the one thing we can at least do for him is motivate and uplift him and ensure that, no matter the circumstances, his headspace remains positive.The crowd was super positive for Zach last night.
i think hackett can be that guy for him. was quite obvious that he is that kind of coordinator from hard knocks / 1JD. lafleur was/is not.
hopefully hackett finds ways to put him in positions to succeed. gets blamed for the broncos mess last year, finds a way to lead zach and the jets to success this year despite the odds. hackett redemption arc.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 12, 2023, 05:52:03 PM
The crowd was super positive for Zach last night.
was happy to see that. i want to believe whoever threw that excrement at him as he was walking off at the end of the game was a bills fan
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 07:59:12 PM
https://twitter.com/NYJBrick/status/1701668595267154033?t=ezDneuTtJ_cWxSzSDhM2zw&s=19
Post by: Coach K on September 12, 2023, 08:02:08 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Ss2rxtW/IMG-1536.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DVNpb9s)Elite status confirmed
(https://imgbb.com/)
Hide your Moms
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: Coach K on September 12, 2023, 08:08:44 PM
Zach x Homelander editI'm ready to fist fight for Zach wilson . Lol
https://twitter.com/NYJBrick/status/1701668595267154033?t=ezDneuTtJ_cWxSzSDhM2zw&s=19
Honestly we need to get a vet . But to backup wilson . Nobody available will come here and hit the ground running with no time with the team or playbook
Let this kid get his practice snaps with the 1s and Hackett can prove how he turned Blake Bortles into a functional QB with a better run game and D than he had in JAX.
But I'd go for a minshew or brissett or something as a backup because if Tim Boyle takes the field you can clone Sauce x4 and Q x4 and it won't be enough lol .
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 12, 2023, 08:09:47 PM
We're getting tattoos
Do we all get one of Zach's mom wearing nothing but his jersey?
Post by: Johnny English on September 12, 2023, 08:58:21 PM
The crowd was super positive for Zach last night.
Mmmm. Not 100% in my section. Was some moaning and groaning, and even a boo when he took a sack.
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 10:14:18 PM
Mmmm. Not 100% in my section. Was some moaning and groaning, and even a boo when he took a sack.200-level scum
Post by: Johnny English on September 12, 2023, 10:14:46 PM
200-level scumNot rich like you government people
Post by: insanity on September 13, 2023, 12:17:32 AM
It's clear they didn't trust him to push the ball down the field, and maybe that's trust or maybe it's lack of practice with the first team, but he executed the plays he was given well.
Even the interception wasn't as bad as it looked. I think zach thought the under crossed would take Milano with him and Matt decided to stay put and intercept a ball that could have been placed better.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 01:02:43 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 13, 2023, 01:03:39 AM
We’ll see how he does in Dallas. It’s Plan Z up to that point at the least.Probably not well, but based on how that defense looked last week, I don't think we'd look well with Aaron either.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 13, 2023, 07:52:14 AM
Yup, I said it
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 10:15:37 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 13, 2023, 10:24:39 AM
https://x.com/bsb_breakdowns/status/1701757119282716756?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkgI agree. This was his best pass of the game in a big spot. Hopefully it helps give him confidence going forward.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 10:31:13 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ochocinco/status/1546263369203810306
We’re back
https://x.com/ochocinco/status/1701727106655236411?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 13, 2023, 10:36:05 AM
Hopefully a week of prep and a new voice at OC will help him look better. He wasn't that good on Monday, but that was a really tough spot to be put in. The next few weeks aren't a whole lot easier with the opponents we are facing, but he should be better prepared, and so should the staff.
Post by: Johnny English on September 13, 2023, 11:05:22 AM
Hopefully a week of prep and a new voice at OC will help him look better.
As well as an Aaron Rodgers who now has nothing to focus on except preparing Zach.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 11:29:23 AM
Honestly way better than I would have hoped for Zach with all of the factors in consideration
Post by: Laxin on September 13, 2023, 02:06:10 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/WHRDkVD/IMG-1544.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XWGy7Yy)
Honestly way better than I would have hoped for Zach with all of the factors in consideration
That’s all this team needs him to be. With even moderately below average QB play, this team can make the playoffs.
I rewatched his throws and he did better than I initially thought. He looked better in the pocket and was fairly accurate. He had the one obvious mistake, but that game could have easily gotten way out of hand if he didn’t handle himself well. I don’t want to let myself get hopefully about him, but something has to eventually go right at that position, right?
Post by: Badger on September 13, 2023, 02:09:40 PM
I don’t want to let myself get hopefully about him, but something has to eventually go right at that position, right?
A team picking players at random on an NFL team for an infinite amount of time will almost surely create an elite quarterback. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem)
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 02:19:24 PM
If he lets himself get rattled again, he and the offense are screwed.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 02:32:41 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 02:36:17 PM
It is kinda funny how critical (not me, #1 fan) we’re being of Zach’s pick when “top 3” QB Josh Allen was just chucking it at our strong safety all night
It's kind of funny how no one is talking about about someone who will not be any factor for our game in Dallas?
Edit: Here, have fun.
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/38385067 (https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/38385067)
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 13, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
As a Jets fan, I don't see how Wilson and Allen can be compared. Allen has proven a ton in his career so far. The Bills offense was also reliant on Allen, while the Jets plan going forward seem to be to put as little on Wilson's plate as humanly possible.
Zach is 24 and has a lot of raw talent. He hasn't put it together in games, which is why we traded a ton for a 39-year old quarterback. At the same time, we made 2 AFC title games with Mark Sanchez, and the 49ers have shown they can have a non-elite QB and win a lot of games recently.
The defense is good enough to make a deep run. I just don't know if the offense is. OL is average. We have two high-end offensive playmakers and a bunch of solid pros around them, but it's not like our offense is loaded with playmakers. Zach needs to be better than what Mark was. Granted, Mark was not good in the regular season and then stepped up in the playoffs.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 05:13:09 PM
My QB
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2023, 06:35:33 PM
Plan-Z looks like a starting calibre QB, not a backup doing an admiral at best job replacing a legend at the end of the season. What do we do with the QB sitch?
Post by: Johnny English on September 14, 2023, 06:38:13 PM
Plan-Z
I like this.
In answer to the question, we probably pick up Zach's 5th year option and then trade Rodgers to Minnesota.
Post by: Badger on September 14, 2023, 06:40:24 PM
I like this.This is the way.
In answer to the question, we probably pick up Zach's 5th year option and then trade Rodgers to Minnesota.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2023, 06:45:40 PM
I like this.
In answer to the question, we probably pick up Zach's 5th year option and then trade Rodgers to Minnesota.
As is tradition.
Post by: Johnny English on September 14, 2023, 06:55:49 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 14, 2023, 07:40:07 PM
If Zach's good enough to make it a conversation, he's the future of the team and you don't discard him for a 40-year-old QB coming off a catastrophic injury.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 15, 2023, 11:25:40 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 15, 2023, 05:10:02 PM
Yes we as Jet fans should definitely spend our time preparing ourselves for best case scenarios
Just...why?
But also...yeah
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 16, 2023, 10:16:28 PM
Since last season, when Zach Wilson faces pressure, he has 0 TD to 5 INT and has a completion percentage of 23.6%, worst of all QBs in the NFL (excluding 2023 rookies). But ....
When Wilson does not face pressure, he has 7 TD to 3 INT and has the 4th-best QBR and Yds per att. The only QBs better are Patrick Mahomes, Jalen Hurts & Tua Tagovailoa.
The trend held true on Monday night, as Wilson was 13-16 (8.4 YPA) when not pressured compared to 1-5 (1.2 YPA) when pressured. #Jets
Cimini
Post by: Libero_2 on September 17, 2023, 12:26:24 AM
Interesting note by the @ESPNStatsInfo staff:
Since last season, when Zach Wilson faces pressure, he has 0 TD to 5 INT and has a completion percentage of 23.6%, worst of all QBs in the NFL (excluding 2023 rookies). But ....
When Wilson does not face pressure, he has 7 TD to 3 INT and has the 4th-best QBR and Yds per att. The only QBs better are Patrick Mahomes, Jalen Hurts & Tua Tagovailoa.
The trend held true on Monday night, as Wilson was 13-16 (8.4 YPA) when not pressured compared to 1-5 (1.2 YPA) when pressured. #Jets
Cimini
No wonder teams blitz like crazy against Zach
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 17, 2023, 07:45:43 AM
Post by: Badger on September 17, 2023, 10:13:32 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2023, 10:29:49 AM
https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1703427342150861016?t=3Z65rTzHTKVoLjxiHzcLnw&s=19
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 17, 2023, 10:50:38 AM
This is interesting ...
https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1703427342150861016?t=3Z65rTzHTKVoLjxiHzcLnw&s=19
The Aaron Rodgers effect
Still would've loved a whole season of sitting in the back seat, but you play the hand you're dealt. Let's go ZDub!
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 17, 2023, 12:29:43 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2023, 06:28:38 PM
Post by: insanity on September 17, 2023, 06:35:37 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 17, 2023, 06:37:06 PM
Zach wasn't bad today. We can win with this version of Zach. But I don't think this is any better than early 2022 Zach.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 17, 2023, 06:47:44 PM
Fix the offensive line
Post by: Coach K on September 17, 2023, 06:48:16 PM
No run game, bad OL, playing way behind. Hard for Zach to play well in the second half. Not a good decision on the last INT, but overall, this is a much better ZachThis
Fix the offensive line
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2023, 07:21:03 PM
My expectations for an NFL starting quarterback are better than one good throw and one decent drive that ends in a field goal.
Zach wasn't bad today. We can win with this version of Zach. But I don't think this is any better than early 2022 Zach.
Nah he was clearly better today than 2021/2022 Zach. Against a game breaking defense. His last pick was awful tho and a step in the wrong direction. Felt Like he played fine up until that point.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 17, 2023, 07:23:13 PM
We are going to find out which way he is trending very soon.
Post by: reuben on September 17, 2023, 07:35:45 PM
Nah he was clearly better today than 2021/2022 Zach. Against a game breaking defense. His last pick was awful tho and a step in the wrong direction. Felt Like he played fine up until that point.
The second one was the one for me. He's thrown that ball so many freaking times and it's always awful.
Last one was just a terribly off-target throw. I can handle bad misses. I can even handle bad decisions, but he's been throwing hot garbage just before he hits the sideline for too freaking long. It's like catnip for him.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 17, 2023, 07:37:05 PM
The second one was the one for me. He's thrown that ball so many freaking times and it's always awful.
Last one was just a terribly off-target throw. I can handle bad misses. I can even handle bad decisions, but he's been throwing hot garbage just before he hits the sideline for too freaking long. It's like catnip for him.
The second one was picked by a player that has elite range.
Hooker is one of a small handful of players that make that play.
Wilson was a bit late and it cost him.
Post by: reuben on September 17, 2023, 07:38:14 PM
Post by: reuben on September 17, 2023, 07:39:21 PM
The roll-out was the one that bothered me. Second one was fine, that's a shot. Third was a bad miss.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 17, 2023, 07:39:24 PM
I think I'm misremembering pick order.
Deep shot to Wilson was #2
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 17, 2023, 08:10:01 PM
It pains me to watch other games and see teams actually run an offense
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2023, 08:20:04 PM
Quote
Connie Carberg
@ConnieScouts
·
2h
Unreal - Zach has been so much better and accurate than last 2 years and I’m so pleased- OL, 3 drops and defense and zero time to throw. He’s not the reason we lost! -#Jets
Connie gonna give Zach access to her butthole tonight
Post by: bojanglesman on September 17, 2023, 08:21:40 PM
Connie gonna give Zach access to her butthole tonight
Might be his best option tonight.
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2023, 08:24:35 PM
Might be his best option tonight.
Maybe he'll get some of Namath's leftover dna on his dong
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2023, 08:30:35 PM
He was better, but he was still not good.
We are going to find out which way he is trending very soon.
I thought the OL and the run game were worse than Zach. Without watching tape, at least 2-3 good balls that WRs dropped too. If those position groups don’t play better, then it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to carry everyone.
Edit: rough showing for the defense too. Right off the bat that was not going to be a game where Zach Wilson can win when the D can’t get off the field.
Post by: Coach K on September 17, 2023, 08:32:16 PM
I thought the OL and the run game were worse than Zach. Without watching tape, at least 2-3 good balls that WRs dropped too. If those position groups don’t play better, then it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to carry everyone.This
Edit: rough showing for the defense too. Right off the bat that was not going to be a game where Zach Wilson can win when the D can’t get off the field.
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Post by: Badger on September 18, 2023, 01:42:53 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 18, 2023, 02:29:48 PM
https://twitter.com/DWAZ73/status/1703835485360050538?t=LtIcKRDg4qr64glqJ73ang&s=19
That's nice. Maybe throw a block or two in for him, then?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2023, 09:58:34 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2023, 10:11:16 AM
https://x.com/throwthedamball/status/1704243969457013191?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Another mathlete with some made up bullshit
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 20, 2023, 10:45:06 AM
Post by: insanity on September 20, 2023, 11:46:16 AM
Another mathlete with some made up bullshitSo mathletes are only stupid when it doesn't prove my point.
Nania's analysis on your best friend dalvin cook days hello
For the record I'm not sold those are valuable metrics that prove anything
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2023, 12:56:54 PM
So mathletes are only stupid when it doesn't prove my point.
Nania's analysis on your best friend dalvin cook days hello
For the record I'm not sold those are valuable metrics that prove anything
freak Michael Nania
Post by: steves850 on September 20, 2023, 01:01:45 PM
So mathletes are only stupid when it doesn't prove my point.
Nania's analysis on your best friend dalvin cook days hello
For the record I'm not sold those are valuable metrics that prove anything
Look here class, this is a great example of talking out of both sides of their mouth. They defend it while always undermining it. This allows them to take credit for it and distance themselves from it at the same time.
I predict this person will be a great politician someday.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2023, 01:14:21 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2023, 03:11:54 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 20, 2023, 06:07:08 PM
So mathletes are only stupid when it doesn't prove my point.
Nania's analysis on your best friend dalvin cook days hello
For the record I'm not sold those are valuable metrics that prove anything
nania's 'analysis' on dalvin cook was that a 3 game sample from bam knight where he accumulated a majority of his stats against a bullshit bears defense meant he deserved more of a shot than dalvin cook, despite all of the stats cook has amassed in his career
that whole article was fvcking bullshit
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 20, 2023, 06:12:40 PM
also, won't get into discussing that graph until i get an explanation from PFF on what an 'open window' throw is and how they accumulate those stats, but i suspect a large part of that is predicated on subjective (lol) assessment of what an open window throw is
also, not every open window throw is equal and it's not a standardized statistic you can use to blindly compare with the rest of the league as a composite variable. off the top of my head i can name several things among many that will vary with each 'open window' throw: playing conditions (weather), throw distance, game 'condition' (early game, 2 minute huddle / late game, garbage time down a ton etc.) and OL play/pressure the QB faces on said throw. even if you control everything else i'm sure our QBs will have worse open window percentages than a majority of the league due to our bullshit offensive line
this is coming from somebody who does not believe in zach
Post by: reuben on September 20, 2023, 07:04:38 PM
Half of the clips that get posted on this forum are from his tweets.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2023, 07:15:16 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2023, 07:20:35 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2023, 08:46:36 PM
Another mathlete with some made up bullshit
You are this guy
https://x.com/asaunders_pgh/status/1704540898955047036?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
(https://i.ibb.co/RvHpVQq/IMG-1606.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YRj7qfx)
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2023, 09:55:30 PM
You are this guy
https://x.com/asaunders_pgh/status/1704540898955047036?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
(https://i.ibb.co/RvHpVQq/IMG-1606.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YRj7qfx)
This guy fucks
Post by: insanity on September 20, 2023, 10:36:03 PM
nania's 'analysis' on dalvin cook was that a 3 game sample from bam knight where he accumulated a majority of his stats against a bullshit bears defense meant he deserved more of a shot than dalvin cook, despite all of the stats cook has amassed in his careerI dont really have an interest in arguing about this I was more poking fun at heis.
that whole article was fvcking bullshit
But I believe his point was never that Bam is a suoerstar,but that dalvin is washed. To add to that he'd rather take a risk on a player on our roster who had been better in a short sample size, than pay dalvin 8+ million. That was how he explained it on the podcasts i listened to anyway.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 21, 2023, 06:33:41 AM
Zach Wilson is last in the NFL in the amount of time to release the ball at 3.22 seconds
I bet half of that was that one time he ran backwards like 137 yards.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 21, 2023, 08:43:35 AM
I dont really have an interest in arguing about this I was more poking fun at heis.
But I believe his point was never that Bam is a suoerstar,but that dalvin is washed. To add to that he'd rather take a risk on a player on our roster who had been better in a short sample size, than pay dalvin 8+ million. That was how he explained it on the podcasts i listened to anyway.
Dalvin is coming off 4 straight 1,000 yard seasons, averaging 10.8 TDs a year during that span. How is this washed other than “podcasts”
Post by: Heismanberg on September 21, 2023, 10:14:39 AM
Dalvin is coming off 4 straight 1,000 yard seasons, averaging 10.8 TDs a year during that span. How is this washed other than “podcasts”
Nania bought a Bam Knight jersey
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 21, 2023, 10:36:34 AM
Post by: insanity on September 21, 2023, 05:15:30 PM
Dalvin is coming off 4 straight 1,000 yard seasons, averaging 10.8 TDs a year during that span. How is this washed other than “podcasts”See derek Smalls post
Cook rated terribly in advanced metrics as well as drops and fumbles (cough cough).
While the Vikings offensive line was one of the top performers in advanced rushing metrics.
Also, have you seen him play this season. He looks unbelievably slow. Hopefully he's just rusty because of missing the preseason.
Post by: MBGreen on September 21, 2023, 05:32:19 PM
Also, have you seen him play this season. He looks unbelievably slow.
I mentioned this to SFD earlier in the week and it triggered the excrement out of him.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 21, 2023, 06:05:48 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 21, 2023, 09:04:47 PM
He doesn’t look slow. He looks indecisive.
Which makes him slow.
Post by: Coach K on September 21, 2023, 09:53:49 PM
He doesn’t look slow. He looks indecisive.This
He doesn't trust this OL yet norshould he .
Breece got destroyed behind tbe LOS a couple times last week
There's something funky going on with the scheme and gameplanning
Which is funny now Hackett saying they "underestimated " Parsons ability to close in short space and abandoned extra blockers when we got behind and it won't happen again
Rofl how do you underestimate the runner up for DPOY 2 years running lol
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Post by: Coach K on September 21, 2023, 09:55:33 PM
Then I have to remind myself we don't play the cowboys every week
But the Pat's front 7 is good so if they excrement the bed again it better not look anything like last week
Either way fix the damn line and get Ruckert in
freak Uzomah let him go jerk off hipsters off Broadway
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Post by: Johnny English on September 21, 2023, 10:04:20 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 21, 2023, 10:26:33 PM
Hopefully he is better working with Zach than LaFleur was. I agree MLF probably had to go given how that ended and given Zach's failures. But Hackett needs to prove he is an upgrade.
Post by: reuben on September 21, 2023, 10:33:09 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 21, 2023, 10:34:48 PM
I hope Hackett works out but I haven't been super impressed through 2 games. Super small sample size so he has time to turn it around though.
Hopefully he is better working with Zach than LaFleur was. I agree MLF probably had to go given how that ended and given Zach's failures. But Hackett needs to prove he is an upgrade.
I genuinely think that having Rodgers with a headset on will make him better. Just as Gase and Peyton were a good team, one could draw the plays and the other knew which ones to call, I feel like Hackett might need Rodgers to give him the field insight. I'm not saying that Hackett and Gase are similar - Hackett clearly has the people skills in abundance that Gase could only dream of, and I suspect that Hackett doesn't have anything like the autist brain for drawing plays up that Gase did - but I can easily believe that both need the guy who can translate the field for them.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 21, 2023, 10:47:57 PM
Monday morning QBing the Dalvin Cook decision after Rodgers went down is a pointless exercise. Focusing blame on him when we have the worst offensive line in the league is Facebook fan level excrement. If you guys actually think we would be better off with Bam Knight and cap space then idk what to tell you.
Post by: Johnny English on September 21, 2023, 10:51:11 PM
You know who else looked slow last week? Breece Hall and Michael Carter
Monday morning QBing the Dalvin Cook decision after Rodgers went down is a pointless exercise. Focusing blame on him when we have the worst offensive line in the league is Facebook fan level excrement. If you guys actually think we would be better off with Bam Knight and cap space then idk what to tell you.
Yeah I don't get the Cook hate. The idea that a rookie who flashed a bit in camp is an upgrade on him is weird.
Post by: insanity on September 21, 2023, 11:09:51 PM
Yeah I don't get the Cook hate. The idea that a rookie who flashed a bit in camp is an upgrade on him is weird.No one said ban is an upgrade. The argument was that $8MM cook is not really an upgrade.
I lean towards this argument but I'm not dying on the hill
Post by: Johnny English on September 21, 2023, 11:16:07 PM
No one said ban is an upgrade.
Uzomah, Cook, Brown, and Cobb all have players behind them that I think, to varying degrees, might be better than they are (Ruck, Izzy, freaking anyone, and Gip).
Post by: reuben on September 21, 2023, 11:25:37 PM
Quote
I think, to varying degrees, might be
Calm the freak down Columbo
Post by: Johnny English on September 22, 2023, 12:24:13 AM
Calm the freak down ColumboIzzy Abanikanda is not better than Dalvin Cook.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 22, 2023, 10:07:51 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 22, 2023, 10:13:51 AM
$8M Cook is a bad investment. But in an all in year, I was fine getting a veteran in there because our backups are very unproven and Breece is coming off an ACL
It's a bad contract but I wouldn't call it an investment
It's a one and done, plus potentially be could count towards compensatory picks assuming he looks better as the year goes on. Most importantly the investment was taking pressure off Breece and our QB, which TBD how he contributes there
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 22, 2023, 11:45:21 AM
Post by: reuben on September 22, 2023, 11:57:24 AM
On Dalvin Cook: freak it, can't take it witchu!
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 22, 2023, 12:08:43 PM
On Orlando Brown: Sorry, we have our number and we're not moving.
On Dalvin Cook: freak it, can't take it witchu!
Very different situations. According to Brown himself, the Jets offered more money than he got. He didn't come here because there was still uncertainty about the QB position. That's directly from him, not speculation.
Cook was brought in with money Rodgers "saved" the team--with the idea of spending it wherever possible to get better players in-house for a run.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 22, 2023, 03:23:39 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 22, 2023, 03:59:56 PM
At least we didn't sign Beckham.
Or Mercedes Lewis.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 04:39:37 PM
Post by: reuben on September 24, 2023, 06:02:02 PM
I actually agree with Saleh when he says Zach's accuracy and pocket presence have improved. But he can't see the field, and he might be the worst off-script QB I have ever seen. If he has to move out of the pocket off script, he never makes a play. At least he throws them away now instead of throwing picks but if he is forced to move, the play is over. And his off-script stuff was maybe the biggest reason we drafted him.
He's an absolute bust and we need to move on. Yes, one good drive a game is an improvement for him. No, it is not enough.
He's the kind of guy who needs to go to NFL Europe for a decade or so and then come back and give it a go in his thirties. But no team in the NFL can afford his rate of growth. Certainly not our beloved dumpster fire.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 24, 2023, 07:13:21 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 07:16:26 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 07:21:27 PM
We got 3 solid backs, let's just sell out to the run and roll with the 2008 dolphins offense
Did you watch our run game today?
Post by: bojanglesman on September 24, 2023, 07:24:58 PM
Post by: Badger on September 24, 2023, 07:41:04 PM
If we finish badly this year, maybe we can at least draft a rookie that hasn't sucked for 3 years to sit behind Rodgers.If we're getting Rodgers back for 2024 we need to sell out on short term boosts to the team.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 08:05:36 PM
If we're getting Rodgers back for 2024 we need to sell out on short term boosts to the team.
If we're in position to draft a QB we got to take him no matter what.
But even if we went with some middle round developmental prospect to sit behind Rodgers 2-3 years, that's at least hopeful.
Look at how useful this year's short term boost is
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 08:14:25 PM
If we're in position to draft a QB we got to take him no matter what.Too early to predict the draft. I agree if there's an elite QB prospect there, we take him no matter what. But if we get a pick outside the top 5, the elite QB prospects are probably gone. And building the wall at OL is important. Plus - do we trust Douglas to draft a QB?
But even if we went with some middle round developmental prospect to sit behind Rodgers 2-3 years, that's at least hopeful.
Look at how useful this year's short term boost is
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 24, 2023, 08:38:48 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 08:38:53 PM
Too early to predict the draft. I agree if there's an elite QB prospect there, we take him no matter what. But if we get a pick outside the top 5, the elite QB prospects are probably gone. And building the wall at OL is important. Plus - do we trust Douglas to draft a QB?
I don't trust anyone to draft a QB. Because anyone who could reliably draft QBs would be paid outrageous sums of money.
I certainly don't want us to reach or trade up. But if we either suck that much, or someone drops, and it's a promising QB talent on the board roll the dice and hope we win the lottery.
Do we trust Joe Douglas with OL? He's had a raging honer for the OL with countless picks and free agency signing. And it doesn't look promising
Post by: Badger on September 24, 2023, 10:09:13 PM
If we're in position to draft a QB we got to take him no matter what.
Like 2006 and 2009 and 2013 and 2016 and 2018 and 2021?
Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 10:14:54 PM
We can probably afford 2 more wins if we want to be guaranteed Caleb or Drake.Sign me up . I just did the useless too many wins for a top3 too bad to be a wild card run and I can't talk myself into that again rofl
Then again since our 1st rd pick in a all in year has been riding pine we'd screw this up too
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Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 10:15:14 PM
*insert Vietnam flashback montage*
Like 2006 and 2009 and 2013 and 2016 and 2018 and 2021?
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 10:42:53 PM
I saw a lot of replays of “Zach Didnt throw it here!” But just as many of “well there was literally no one to throw it to”
I think throwing 3 picks in the last 10 minutes of the game last week and getting roasted for it all week made Zach extremely gunshy today
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 25, 2023, 12:28:16 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 02:00:21 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 06:42:51 AM
Maybe they are trying to simplify the playbook for Zach to the detriment of the rest of the team. I still can't explain a lot of offensive issues. There has to be a reason besides "our coaches are bad". I don't believe they are this bad. They may not be good either. I think we are trying to win Jeopardy with a PTSD patient.
There were three or four plays where Zach was late to process when targets were open and that’s completely on him, but I do think the playcalling is overcomplicated right now. Not just for the QB but for everyone on the offense.
Post by: ScotlandJet on September 25, 2023, 08:11:12 AM
There were three or four plays where Zach was late to process when targets were open and that’s completely on him, but I do think the playcalling is overcomplicated right now. Not just for the QB but for everyone on the offense.
That all makes sense but ZW was in camp and we assume he had the same play book as Rodgers to learn. If our coaches drew up a play book that wouldn't fit the back up that's on them and shows how limited we always were. I wonder if anyone in the front office asked themselves what would happen if we lost Rodgers during the season for a game or two?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 08:29:31 AM
That all makes sense but ZW was in camp and we assume he had the same play book as Rodgers to learn.
This is why I'm being more patient with Hackett right now though. He is running a playbook that Rodgers co-wrote over the course of a very long, successful career. This is all new to Zach.
Russell Wilson could pick this playbook up last season. I don't expect Zach to get it right away and Hackett shouldn't either. For the most part, passing concepts do not look dumbed down like we need them to be. Lots of plays look to be slow developing and our checkdowns are often slow leaks or kept in to max protect -- so if the QB is slow to process and the hot reads are slow, we're toast.
Hackett did call mesh concept several times yesterday and that's about as easy of a read as it gets for a QB and Wilson still wouldn't throw it. He's shell-shocked.
He should be banging the table for a new QB right now. It can't be Tim Boyle.
Post by: Miamipuck on September 25, 2023, 09:37:52 AM
It)p’s time to walk Wilson to, the back of the shed.
Not directed at you:
But JFC last year was the time to do this.
I can't recall a professional athlete this incompetent and ever becoming a decent player. Does Zach have nudes on Douglas and Saleh.
Why would you die on the hill with the single worst QB in the NFL?
The team is going to revolt on this staff, it's happening you can see it in the body language.I moved down to the 100 section 8 rows up. You can see the frustration it's readily apparent.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 25, 2023, 09:44:21 AM
Not directed at you:
But JFC last year was the time to do this.
I can't recall a professional athlete this incompetent and ever becoming a decent player. Does Zach have nudes on Douglas and Saleh.
Why would you die on the hill with the single worst QB in the NFL?
The team is going to revolt on this staff, it's happening you can see it in the body language.I moved down to the 100 section 8 rows up. You can see the frustration it's readily apparent.
I was okay with giving Wilson a chance to play backup to Rodgers and see if he could learn and mature. But that all went out the window with Rodgers' Achilles. I still held out hope, but it's abundantly clear he's not even an answer, much less the answer.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 09:47:38 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 11:53:28 AM
Post by: Coach K on September 25, 2023, 01:38:44 PM
Dunno what the qualifiers were for games played or passing attempts but apparently we can be historic this yr with wilson lol
We all said this team might go down in history just didn't know how
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Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 25, 2023, 02:20:04 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on September 25, 2023, 03:42:06 PM
This kid sucks. He's a borderline XFL QB.
You're pretty generous with that bum. He'd be hard pressed to make Heismanberg's muscular flag football team.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 25, 2023, 10:03:58 PM
Zach looked indecisive and scared to throw against the patriots after he ended the 4th quarter against the Cowboys with 3 picks. I’m sure he’s fully aware how badly Belichick has owned him too. He was probably coached to try and not lose the game. excrement, it almost worked with him playing like absolute garbage.
We ran on first down something like 10/12 times. We ran for 1.7 YPC. Romo was talking about it all game how you have to throw on 1st to keep the defense honest and put the QB in favorable situations. Teams are going to keep stacking the box and we’re going to keep struggling to run until we change that.
Our lone TD drive in 2 minute drill it felt like Zach actually felt free to let loose and we moved right down the field.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 10:55:43 PM
Post by: Jumbo on September 25, 2023, 11:11:15 PM
Joe Willie Namath thinks Zach, Saleh, and JD should all be gone
Post by: Jumbo on September 25, 2023, 11:15:26 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 07:37:34 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 08:57:58 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 08:59:18 AM
When's the last time Namath said anything negative about the Jets?
Never...he's a bigger sunshiner than you, blu.
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 09:00:26 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 26, 2023, 09:30:01 AM
If Namath's opinion holds any weight with Jets ownership...things could get interesting if the jets don't turn it around.
I highly doubt it does.
Still, Joe makes Connie Carberg look like a SOJF, so if even he's vocally fed up, it's time to pay attention. Everyone is sick of this garbage.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 26, 2023, 10:03:42 AM
Guy was gushing about rodgers all offseason
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 10:14:11 AM
Never...he's a bigger sunshiner than you, blu.
I'm not a sunshiner, but I will also never be a SOJF.
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 10:20:04 AM
I'm not a sunshiner, but I will also never be a SOJF.
"Sunshine" Heismanbass
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 10:23:02 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 10:29:14 AM
Committing to the bit
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 10:31:56 AM
You know who's really good? Laken Tomlinson
Committing to the bit
haha
Post by: dcm1602 on September 26, 2023, 11:22:07 PM
Quote
ESPN’s Rich Cimini reports the Jets players are unhappy with Zach Wilson starting.
Cimini stated that head coach Robert Saleh is “coming off as a Zach apologist, and that doesn’t play well in the locker room.” The Jets QB situation continues to unravel with Zach Wilson’s struggles. Cimini explained the team’s stout defense is especially irked and there is tension in the locker room. Trevor Siemian was signed, but that barely helps the QB issues without Aaron Rodgers. Wilson’s play has set the locker room on fire and Saleh has a decision to make about the non-improving third-year QB.
RIP Saleh
Post by: ScotlandJet on September 27, 2023, 03:50:12 AM
RIP Saleh
This is a worrying development.
Post by: Libero_2 on September 27, 2023, 04:34:12 AM
This is a worrying development.
This is the expected development. No one can sit there and watch him play and say “at least we are trying”
Saw a stat the other day brought up somewhere. If the Jets had a league average scoring output over their last 18 games, they’d be 15-3. Give me a QB who can at least put up field goals and this team has a chance to win every game. God forbid a dude who can get in the endzone 3 times per game. Everyone everywhere should be pissed off that is even tangentially related to this team over Zach
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2023, 05:29:14 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 27, 2023, 06:53:34 AM
RIP Saleh
Cimini likes to stir the pot, so i take what he posts with a grain of salt. I'll give it a few more weeks, but this certainly isn't ideal. Usually where there's smoke, there's a fire.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2023, 07:36:13 AM
Cimini likes to stir the pot, so i take what he posts with a grain of salt. I'll give it a few more weeks, but this certainly isn't ideal. Usually where there's smoke, there's a fire.
I tried to rewatch the postgame last night to verify my story regarding the "You're gonna get me in trouble" quote. Of course, the recording starts midway through Garrett's presser. It definitely wasn't Sauce.
That said, Garrett was asked about Zach and he answered with "That's my dog" and seemed to blow off the question. He didn't have the same response to questions about the gameplan. He was clearly measuring his words.
There's definitely smoke. And for all many of us, myself included, are banging the Zach drum, the playcalling is doing no one any favors on this team.
Post by: MBGreen on September 27, 2023, 07:48:41 AM
I tried to rewatch the postgame last night to verify my story regarding the "You're gonna get me in trouble" quote. Of course, the recording starts midway through Garrett's presser. It definitely wasn't Sauce.
That said, Garrett was asked about Zach and he answered with "That's my dog" and seemed to blow off the question. He didn't have the same response to questions about the gameplan. He was clearly measuring his words.
There's definitely smoke. And for all many of us, myself included, are banging the Zach drum, the playcalling is doing no one any favors on this team.
Of course Garrett is going to be pissed. He has the potential to be a top 5 WR in the league, and he's trying to build his resume for a monster contract. Tough to negotiate for more when your QB plays retarded and can't get you the ball. These guys want to win, but this is also a business.
The locker room is going to lynch Saleh if nothing changes over the next few weeks. Cimini is probably right, but after week 3 is a little premature.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2023, 09:29:02 AM
Of course Garrett is going to be pissed. He has the potential to be a top 5 WR in the league, and he's trying to build his resume for a monster contract. Tough to negotiate for more when your QB plays retarded and can't get you the ball. These guys want to win, but this is also a business.
The locker room is going to lynch Saleh if nothing changes over the next few weeks. Cimini is probably right, but after week 3 is a little premature.
I agree with everything except it being week 3.
Remember how happy everyone was that Rodgers was coming in to save the franchise? That died 4 plays into the season. This is game 3 of 2023, but it feels like game 20 of 2022. Zach is the same guy who ended last year, so guys aren't going to be patient. They see the same guy making the same mistakes we do. Except they're putting their bodies on the line and working for big paydays while we sit on the internet and complain about it.
This overwhelming support of Zach from Saleh and Douglas has to have everyone pissed off. No matter what he does, they won't even give him legit competition for his job, even though every other position has had to battle for their spots.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 09:33:03 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 27, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Garrett Wilson didn't say anything bad about Zach Wilson.
His body language said otherwise on the sideline.
He's not going to roast Zach at the podium, that's bush league excrement. But his frustration is certainly there, and it will boil over if Zach (and the rest of the offense/coaching) doesn't improve.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 10:05:21 AM
His body language said otherwise on the sideline.
He's not going to roast Zach at the podium, that's bush league excrement. But his frustration is certainly there, and it will boil over if Zach (and the rest of the offense/coaching) doesn't improve.
Yeah, but he didn't say anything bad about Zach to the media. That's what's being implied in this thread.
Post by: MBGreen on September 27, 2023, 10:11:10 AM
Yeah, but he didn't say anything bad about Zach to the media. That's what's being implied in this thread.
Well, i didn't imply it. And i hope GW doesn't go down that path in the future either. Keep that excrement in the lockeroom.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2023, 10:15:49 AM
Play designs are hit-and-miss where Zach doesn't always have somwewhere to go.
When guys are open, Zach doesn't see them. And I don't mean guys on the opposite side of the field where Zach is looking. And when he does see them, he often throws late and/or inaccurately.
Receivers aren't always open, and they could be better, but Zach is the biggest issue.
I was a little more impressed with the OL on second viewing. I'm so used to blaming the OL for everything. And the OL could be better, but Zach had time to do things more often than not. He just doesn't.
Post by: Jumbo on September 27, 2023, 10:20:17 AM
Yeah, but he didn't say anything bad about Zach to the media. That's what's being implied in this thread.
I think he learned his lesson when he made a comment that slightly implied that Zach was a problem last year and got jumped on for it
Post by: ScotlandJet on September 27, 2023, 10:43:49 AM
I agree with everything except it being week 3.
Remember how happy everyone was that Rodgers was coming in to save the franchise? That died 4 plays into the season. This is game 3 of 2023, but it feels like game 20 of 2022. Zach is the same guy who ended last year, so guys aren't going to be patient. They see the same guy making the same mistakes we do. Except they're putting their bodies on the line and working for big paydays while we sit on the internet and complain about it.
This overwhelming support of Zach from Saleh and Douglas has to have everyone pissed off. No matter what he does, they won't even give him legit competition for his job, even though every other position has had to battle for their spots.
Agree completley Alio and I've said this already! Surely Douglas and Saleh must have entertained the prospect that Rogers might go down for a game or two; what was the back up plan? If they seriously thought ZW would keep the ship on course in the meat of a season they are not as bright as we thought they were.
With all the dough we were shelling out we should have been smarter and got a good vet to back up. You've got to think that even Flacco could do a better job than the kid.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2023, 11:03:09 AM
Yeah, but he didn't say anything bad about Zach to the media. That's what's being implied in this thread.
Garrett wasn't saying anything bad about Zach. He blew off the Zach question. He had a very different reaction to the question about the playcalling though.
As for the "gonna get me in trouble thing". I'm certain someone said it, but maybe it was Moseley or Carter. But since I don't have access to the video, I'll just retract it completely.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2023, 11:52:05 AM
His options are:
1) Zach Wilson
2) Tim Boyle
What do you want him to say? Zach sucks? Everyone knows that already and that isn’t going to help him play any better. He’s catching enough excrement already from the fans and media. We’re stuck with Zach for the time being, and staying positive seems more productive than having yet another person dumping on him publicly.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 11:54:57 AM
Saleh is predictably catching way too much heat.
His options are:
1) Zach Wilson
2) Tim Boyle
What do you want him to say? Zach sucks? Everyone knows that already and that isn’t going to help him play any better. He’s catching enough excrement already from the fans and media. We’re stuck with Zach for the time being, and staying positive seems more productive than having yet another person dumping on him publicly.
Saleh lied
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2023, 11:55:26 AM
“Just have to stay the course. When he’s on target, he makes some of the prettiest throws in the league.”
CJ Mosley, team defensive captain, is going to lose the locker room! Defensive mutiny!
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2023, 11:55:55 AM
Saleh lied
Joe Douglas hide
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2023, 11:57:50 AM
Saleh is predictably catching way too much heat.Yep. He is in a very difficult spot, and the GM never has to be accountable to the media, so Saleh has to be the face of it.
His options are:
1) Zach Wilson
2) Tim Boyle
What do you want him to say? Zach sucks? Everyone knows that already and that isn’t going to help him play any better. He’s catching enough excrement already from the fans and media. We’re stuck with Zach for the time being, and staying positive seems more productive than having yet another person dumping on him publicly.
Maybe he could be a little more honest and say we need Zach to play better. But we all know he's lying, and we all know he's trying to protect his players.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2023, 12:02:32 PM
Saleh is predictably catching way too much heat.
His options are:
1) Zach Wilson
2) Tim Boyle
What do you want him to say? Zach sucks? Everyone knows that already and that isn’t going to help him play any better. He’s catching enough excrement already from the fans and media. We’re stuck with Zach for the time being, and staying positive seems more productive than having yet another person dumping on him publicly.
This might be really fair.
Is it that he actually has the faith in Zach he's professing, or is he saying it because Zach's his only option?
If it's the former, Saleh deserves every bit of the spite being thrown his way. If it's the latter, is it because Joe D can't get anyone else or because Douglas is committed to Zach?
I still think it's at least partly because he actually believes in Zach. I think the coaches and the O roster do. Someone (Cimini?) posted the other day about how good Zach looks in practice (backed up by players saying the same). But practice is deceiving. He's not seeing Micah Parsons coming at him in practice.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 12:03:17 PM
Mosley says his confidence in Zach Wilson is “high.”
“Just have to stay the course. When he’s on target, he makes some of the prettiest throws in the league.”
CJ Mosley, team defensive captain, is going to lose the locker room! Defensive mutiny!
CJ also lied
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2023, 12:03:55 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2023, 12:04:40 PM
CJ also lied
Plot Twist: CJ lied about Saleh lying. It's a coup!
Post by: MBGreen on September 27, 2023, 12:08:04 PM
Joe Douglas hideDanny McBride
Post by: Gorilla on September 27, 2023, 12:38:34 PM
Garrett wasn't saying anything bad about Zach. He blew off the Zach question. He had a very different reaction to the question about the playcalling though.
As for the "gonna get me in trouble thing". I'm certain someone said it, but maybe it was Moseley or Carter. But since I don't have access to the video, I'll just retract it completely.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdnZtNnJmOWMwdHEwejJjazd1M3h3MXQ5MmdiY2d2YzBpZXRoNmlybiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/j4U13whQtcBqwFUm0s/giphy.gif)
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 12:38:52 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2023, 01:44:22 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2023, 01:47:17 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 27, 2023, 01:47:36 PM
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 02:55:13 PM
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Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 02:55:32 PM
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Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 03:04:25 PM
I rewatched every Zach Wilson dropback on All-22. I'm not a film bro, but nobody comes off well.
Play designs are hit-and-miss where Zach doesn't always have somwewhere to go.
I think a lot of our routes were too slow to develop. We have too many plays where receivers are getting depth really quickly - like 10-12 yards down the field, outside the hash. Wilson can't read that. What's frustrating about saying that is he was missing butt naked crossers over the middle when they were there too.
Quote
When guys are open, Zach doesn't see them. And I don't mean guys on the opposite side of the field where Zach is looking. And when he does see them, he often throws late and/or inaccurately.
There were two plays that stood out to me, both mesh concept. Lazard and Wilson were both open and they crossed the field in front of Zach and he just didn't throw it. I don't know where his eyes are, but I thinking he's dropping them because he's terrified of a pass rush (real or phantom). It's inexcusable for him to miss guys wide open like that.
I get how someone like Belichick could fool him into making the wrong read, but Hackett made the right call against their Cover 2 and Wilson just didn't see it. There were several opportunities for hole shots outside the numbers and Zach only ripped it one time -- his best throw of the game.
Quote
I was a little more impressed with the OL on second viewing. I'm so used to blaming the OL for everything. And the OL could be better, but Zach had time to do things more often than not. He just doesn't.
They did enough for us to win in the passing game.
They failed miserably in the run game.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 05:16:13 PM
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Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 05:19:33 PM
Trying to speak it into existence
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Post by: Jumbo on September 27, 2023, 05:23:16 PM
I'm not even mad at Wilson anymore I'm mad they keep throwing him out there lol . Not like he can refuse to play and admit he can't handle it .
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The process that's led to him being the unquestioned starter with no one else in it just looks worse and worse the more I think about it. The Rodgers injury was not fully foreseeable but this being our Plan B is disgustingly bad.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 05:23:24 PM
"If you're not with him at 1-2, don't be with him at 15-2. He showed glimpses of brilliance this past week...next week, a new era begins.
#superbowl #HeWillDeliver"
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Post by: Badger on September 27, 2023, 05:25:55 PM
Saw this on a fb group and had to shareI want to believe
"If you're not with him at 1-2, don't be with him at 15-2. He showed glimpses of brilliance this past week...next week, a new era begins.
#superbowl #HeWillDeliver"
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Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 05:31:12 PM
The process that's led to him being the unquestioned starter with no one else in it just looks worse and worse the more I think about it. The Rodgers injury was not fully foreseeable but this being our Plan B is disgustingly bad.I'm more upset that for the first 3 qtrs vs Dallas I was thinking "this is the kid we drafted" . As if he finally got it.
Now its just a bad chicken and egg between lack of blocking drops and him outright refusing to throw to open reads and holding onto it .
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Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2023, 05:46:21 PM
I want to believe
How much of your job do you spend watching porn in the basement?
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
Saw this on a fb group and had to share
"If you're not with him at 1-2, don't be with him at 15-2. He showed glimpses of brilliance this past week...next week, a new era begins.
#superbowl #HeWillDeliver"
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Yeesh, I think I'm probably the most defensive of him on here but that's taking it way too far even for me.
BTW, I'm sure there will be people tell me why it's awful and he knows nothing but I listened to the Play Like A Jet breakdown with Luke Grant (the Aussie guy) today and I thought a lot of it was quite good. He didn't excuse Zach at all and said that he did a lot wrong, but he also hung a lot of the blame for Sunday on Hackett and the playcalling that didn't put Zach in the best positions to succeed - notably the insistence on running on fist down which consistently put us in 2nd and long and then 3rd and long.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 27, 2023, 06:04:50 PM
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 06:07:37 PM
Yeesh, I think I'm probably the most defensive of him on here but that's taking it way too far even for me.Laverneus Coles was harping on that witb Chrebet. Pass on 1st to at least try to prevent them from stacking the box constantly and Coles basically said im not saying zach is tbe answer but with this OL I don't care who's back there
BTW, I'm sure there will be people tell me why it's awful and he knows nothing but I listened to the Play Like A Jet breakdown with Luke Grant (the Aussie guy) today and I thought a lot of it was quite good. He didn't excuse Zach at all and said that he did a lot wrong, but he also hung a lot of the blame for Sunday on Hackett and the playcalling that didn't put Zach in the best positions to succeed - notably the insistence on running on fist down which consistently put us in 2nd and long and then 3rd and long.
He was moreso upset with the OL .
I'd like to agree but I see the check down to The LOS on 4th down Zach taking a safety with two open reads and at least a half a dozen plays where he just is so she'll shocked he can't throw it
At that point you have to wonder if he's just broken mentally .
I liked him as a prospect so I won't backpedal there but regardless of the autopsy , barring a respectable game this Sunday hes likely cooked
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Post by: Jumbo on September 27, 2023, 06:09:55 PM
When has Zach had a really good game? We're 3 years in fellas.
We're 25 starts into his career.
His best career game by passer rating (and only one above 100 at 101.1) is last year vs Buffalo, 18/25 for 154 yards 1 TD 0 INT. If you want a game where he threw for a respectable amount of yards, it's rookie year vs Tennessee, 21/34 for 297 yards 2 TD 1 INT.
For comparison, CJ Stroud, this year's #2 pick, has eclipsed Zach's career high passer rating in each of the last two games.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 06:12:05 PM
We're 25 starts into his career.He might break the OSU curse lol
His best career game by passer rating (and only one above 100 at 101.1) is last year vs Buffalo, 18/25 for 154 yards 1 TD 0 INT. If you want a game where he threw for a respectable amount of yards, it's rookie year vs Tennessee, 21/34 for 297 yards 2 TD 1 INT.
For comparison, CJ Stroud, this year's #2 pick, has eclipsed Zach's career high passer rating in each of the last two games.
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Post by: Badger on September 27, 2023, 06:36:43 PM
How much of your job do you spend watching porn in the basement?Not nearly enough
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 09:27:53 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 28, 2023, 09:52:35 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 28, 2023, 10:21:12 AM
preach it, Orlovsky. He's bang on.
Post by: steves850 on September 28, 2023, 10:46:51 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 28, 2023, 10:48:34 AM
https://x.com/GetUpESPN/status/1707389035235143986?s=20
preach it, Orlovsky. He's bang on.
Is he?
So it's everyone else's fault Zach can't read a defense? It's everyone else's fault that he doesn't see open receivers? It's everyone else's fault he runs backward when under pressure?
I can get on board with the "Zach's got talent" idea, but pretending it's everyone else's fault that he's broken is ridiculous. And the idea of sending him out there telling him "just sling it and if it goes wrong we'll figure it out" is insanity.
The playcalling could certainly be better, but come on.
Post by: steves850 on September 28, 2023, 10:51:45 AM
Is he?
So it's everyone else's fault Zach can't read a defense? It's everyone else's fault that he doesn't see open receivers? It's everyone else's fault he runs backward when under pressure?
I can get on board with the "Zach's got talent" idea, but pretending it's everyone else's fault that he's broken is ridiculous. And the idea of sending him out there telling him "just sling it and if it goes wrong we'll figure it out" is insanity.
The playcalling could certainly be better, but come on.
In my amateur eyes, I see two things:
- Wilson cannot read the defense
- Wilson has no time to read the defense
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 10:53:12 AM
So it's everyone else's fault Zach can't read a defense? It's everyone else's fault that he doesn't see open receivers
Two very different things.
It's the fault of the coaches if he can't read a defense.
If he's not throwing the ball to open receivers, it's on him.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 28, 2023, 10:56:04 AM
https://x.com/GetUpESPN/status/1707389035235143986?s=20
preach it, Orlovsky. He's bang on.
1. Unleash Zach
2. Throws 5 INTs
3. Fanbase complains they didn't play conservative enough.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 10:58:03 AM
1. Unleash Zach
2. Throws 5 INTs
3. Fanbase complains they didn't play conservative enough.
This is the way
Post by: Jumbo on September 28, 2023, 11:03:16 AM
1. Unleash Zach
2. Throws 5 INTs
3. Fanbase complains they didn't play conservative enough.
I just wanna see if Mahomes can top the 70 point mark, goes quicker if Zach gives them the ball back quicker
Post by: MBGreen on September 28, 2023, 11:04:36 AM
1. Unleash Zach
2. Throws 5 INTs
3. Fanbase complains they didn't play conservative enough.
probably
At least it's more entertaining than Zach living in fear and losing anyway.
Post by: steves850 on September 28, 2023, 11:07:09 AM
probably
At least it's more entertaining than Zach living in fear and losing anyway.
on one hand, ZW style is boring as excrement, like a lot of the offense we've ran for the last decade.
On the other hand, watching this defense give up 70 points because we keep turning the ball over may actually make me throw up.
Post by: MBGreen on September 28, 2023, 11:11:20 AM
on one hand, ZW style is boring as excrement, like a lot of the offense we've ran for the last decade.
On the other hand, watching this defense give up 70 points because we keep turning the ball over may actually make me throw up.
you'll be ready for full Tank Mode in week 5.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 28, 2023, 11:43:32 AM
Two very different things.
It's the fault of the coaches if he can't read a defense.
If he's not throwing the ball to open receivers, it's on him.
You know vastly more about coaching this sport than I ever will, but is it all the coaching's fault for his ability to read the defense? That check to the Cook run that went nowhere Sunday was brutal.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 28, 2023, 11:43:49 AM
I just wanna see if Mahomes can top the 70 point mark, goes quicker if Zach gives them the ball back quicker
As much as this will cause pain, at least it would overshadow Miami's performance this week. (This is where I am with the "small things" in friggin late September.)
probably
At least it's more entertaining than Zach living in fear and losing anyway.
No it wouldn't be. The only people that benefit from this are NY/NJ Best Buy locations that get to sell thousands of TVs the following week to replace all the broken ones.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 11:49:35 AM
That check to the Cook run that went nowhere Sunday was brutal.
That was on McGovern, in my opinion.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 28, 2023, 12:07:44 PM
That was on McGovern, in my opinion.
Did McGovern screw up multiple plays? I saw you mention the first play of the game being on him as well.
Maybe it's time to move on from him? I admit I was one of the people saying they needed to bring him back but if he's killing plays, it's not doing us any good.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2023, 12:08:57 PM
- He tries to make plays but then commits too many turnovers
- He's scared to make plays, so he makes none.
I'd rather the first one because I don't think he's capable of the 2nd one. The 1st one actually could give us leads and put us in games. Maybe we get lucky and he has a good first 1.5 quarters, and then we can be conservative after that.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 12:20:54 PM
I don't think he's capable of the 2nd one.
He's certainly capable of this. We've seen it for most of his career here.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 28, 2023, 12:23:23 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 28, 2023, 12:30:05 PM
Could Nate learn a thing from his father and go to a dink-and-dunk offense? Maybe that would help Zach? This staff seems obsessed with "Zach's talent" which is basically everyone being in love with his arm strength. But what if they just dumb it down to quick strikes just to get defenses moving backward?
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2023, 12:34:43 PM
He's certainly capable of this. We've seen it for most of his career here.Sorry, I meant I don't think he's capable of being a GOOD game manager. He's obviously capable of being a shitty one.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2023, 12:36:30 PM
The most aggressive I remember Zach playing was that Detroit game last year at home. He was heaving it up all over the place, whether it made sense or not. He looked good and terrible at the same time. I was at that game.The game I think about is the Patriots home game last year. Wilson was 20-41 for 355 yards, 2 TD and 3 Int. To me, that game was the full Zach Wilson gunslinger experience.
Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 01:09:51 PM
Because he certainly isn't decisive enough to be both productive and efficient
And we can debate all day whether it's situational playcalling blocking or Zach refusing to throw to an open man
Hes got maybe one at most 2 games left for his career as anything other than the worst QB pick we've had since Hackenberg .
He can change the narrative, but times almost up
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Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2023, 01:33:42 PM
He's athletic enough and his college tape shows that he doesn't need to do that. But in the NFL, he has shown next-to-no ability to make plays when the play breaks down. The Corey Davis TD vs Tennessee is one of maybe a handful of times he's done anything.
So I'm not really sure what you do with him. Theoretically, yes, taking the reigns off is ideal. We have nothing to lose at this point. But I don't think he can do that effectively enough either.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 01:39:13 PM
The Corey Davis TD vs Tennessee is one of maybe a handful of times he's done anything.
The very first touchdown pass of his career was an off-script rollout. If we can get him to move east/west instead of backpedaling away from pressure, he can make things happen at times.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 28, 2023, 01:54:26 PM
The very first touchdown pass of his career was an off-script rollout. If we can get him to move east/west instead of backpedaling away from pressure, he can make things happen at times.
This sounds like some Sanchez talk.
Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 02:11:11 PM
The very first touchdown pass of his career was an off-script rollout. If we can get him to move east/west instead of backpedaling away from pressure, he can make things happen at times.Man I thought we were good to go . That's the last time he looked like what we thought we were getting lol
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Post by: Badger on September 28, 2023, 02:11:22 PM
This sounds like some Sanchez talk.Rolling out to the right was consistently Mark's best place to be.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 28, 2023, 02:20:53 PM
Rolling out to the right was consistently Mark's best place to be.
OK. I thought I remembered that being a large part of the game plan for him but I wasn’t sure. I have large chunks of missing time from those years.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 02:27:43 PM
Tyler Conklin didn't do a damn thing on the play.
Garrett Wilson slipped trying to juke the most dangerous defender (that Conklin was supposed to block.
There is ONE Pats* defender between Wilson and a huge gain if Conklin does his job.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2023, 02:28:58 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 02:33:29 PM
Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 02:39:39 PM
That drag to Lazard is haunting. Zach has to make that throw. If he can't do that, he's toast. Hopefully he sees it this week on film and throws it this time.This is the one that convinced me tbh . It was inexcusable lol wide open in your face half the posters could make that read and throw . No exaggeration .
It's why I'm not expecting anything but still rooting for him . I've seen the tools but Jesus I just don't think it's gonna happen
Pray it does though
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Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 02:40:55 PM
Let's hope it starts Sunday night.
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Post by: Johnny English on September 28, 2023, 02:46:00 PM
Rolling out to the right was consistently Mark's best place to be.
I feel like Zach has a much greater level of arm talent than Sanchez ever did, but Sanchez had a line that Zach (or Sam for that matter) could only have dreamed of.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 28, 2023, 02:51:21 PM
I forgot about the RPO to Garrett Wilson. That's actually a perfect read that was ruined by two things:
Tyler Conklin didn't do a damn thing on the play.
Garrett Wilson slipped trying to juke the most dangerous defender (that Conklin was supposed to block.
There is ONE Pats* defender between Wilson and a huge gain if Conklin does his job.
Time to #BringTheRuckert
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 28, 2023, 02:52:49 PM
Someone show Zach a highlight reel of good plays he's made.
"Insiders report that Jets staffers were forced to deliver binders to Zach Wilson of all the nice things people were saying about him."
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 03:04:48 PM
Time to #BringTheRuckert
please
Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 03:27:47 PM
Time to #BringTheRuckertWe all know our words fall deaf upon the ears of the football gods
But yes. Amen
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Post by: Jumbo on September 28, 2023, 03:34:43 PM
"Insiders report that Jets staffers were forced to deliver binders to Zach Wilson of all the nice things people were saying about him."
Saleh at the Friday morning team meeting: "Everyone go around the room and say your favorite thing about Zach"
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 28, 2023, 03:35:32 PM
Saleh at the Friday morning team meeting: "Everyone go around the room and say your favorite thing about Zach"
“He’s mortal”
Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 04:11:04 PM
Saleh at the Friday morning team meeting: "Everyone go around the room and say your favorite thing about Zach"
Ms Lippys car.....is green
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Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 04:54:01 PM
Zach attack let's get him some caffeine pills from Jessie's workout bag.
We got this
In just gonna go full blown sunshine until Semen is under center .
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Post by: d sw0rdz on September 28, 2023, 05:17:17 PM
we should let this kid sling it freely more often, we need more multi-interception quarters and 3-interception halves like we saw when we were trying to come from behind against the cowboys. more of that please
i'm getting so tired of orlovsky's pressured derriere speech and dumb derriere arguments
Post by: Badger on September 28, 2023, 07:00:32 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230929/3f860a5b03b8ce929760e224207bc2fb.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on September 28, 2023, 07:13:28 PM
Go zach .
Zach attack let's get him some caffeine pills from Jessie's workout bag.
We got this
In just gonna go full blown sunshine until Semen is under center .
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(https://i.imgflip.com/2kdo7u.jpg)
Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 08:36:59 PM
Zach is about to make history on Sunday.I need a Dick Wood jersey
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230929/3f860a5b03b8ce929760e224207bc2fb.jpg)
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Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 08:37:20 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/2kdo7u.jpg)Don't worry it'll only last 2 weeks if im a betting man
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Post by: AlioTheFool on September 28, 2023, 08:54:27 PM
Zach is about to make history on Sunday.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230929/3f860a5b03b8ce929760e224207bc2fb.jpg)
That list just hurts
Post by: steves850 on September 29, 2023, 08:51:45 AM
This is a factual statement.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 29, 2023, 09:17:34 AM
Despite the criticisms he is working/trying hard, taking accountability, and saying all the right things to tough questions in a tough situation
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 29, 2023, 10:58:48 AM
"Sam Darnold is a top ten QB for the Jets."
This is a factual statement.
"Geno Smith is a top-10 QB for the NY Jets"
Also factual.
Post by: Coach K on September 29, 2023, 12:07:04 PM
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 29, 2023, 12:22:19 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 29, 2023, 12:39:44 PM
Someone show Zach a highlight reel of good plays he's made.
https://x.com/ihartitz/status/1524481753800400897?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
https://x.com/ihartitz/status/1704123406705115253?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 29, 2023, 12:40:27 PM
"Insiders report that Jets staffers were forced to deliver binders to Zach Wilson of all the nice things people were saying about him."
https://x.com/ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
https://x.com/ihartitz/status/1586802987808301062?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 29, 2023, 12:41:41 PM
Zach is about to make history on Sunday.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230929/3f860a5b03b8ce929760e224207bc2fb.jpg)
Geno :'(
Post by: Heismanberg on September 29, 2023, 12:44:47 PM
Post by: reuben on September 29, 2023, 12:51:10 PM
Geno sucked derriere here and in several other places
SBTZ
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2023, 12:54:42 PM
https://x.com/ihartitz/status/1524481753800400897?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
https://x.com/ihartitz/status/1704123406705115253?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Going to watch these on permanent repeat for the next 36 hours.
Post by: reuben on September 29, 2023, 01:05:16 PM
Going to watch these on permanent repeat for the next 36 hours.
https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984 (https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984)
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 29, 2023, 01:06:47 PM
https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984 (https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984)
You did the SFD thing to SFD.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 29, 2023, 01:10:02 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 29, 2023, 01:14:09 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 29, 2023, 02:01:30 PM
Geno sucked derriere here and in several other places
Making it all the more depressing that he's able to be a top-10 QB in any category here.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 29, 2023, 02:05:30 PM
Geno sucked derriere here and in several other placesSame with Fitz and Vinny, who gave us maybe the 2 best seasons we've seen at QB for the Jets.
Maybe we should be signing more crappy veterans.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 29, 2023, 02:07:42 PM
Same with Fitz and Vinny, who gave us maybe the 2 best seasons we've seen at QB for the Jets.
Maybe we should be signing more crappy veterans.
Fitz was awesome in 2015
Post by: Coach K on September 29, 2023, 02:25:30 PM
Fitz was awesome in 2015I flew out to HOU to do the walk of shame when his bum derriere had multiple turnovers in a win and in game though lol
And its still the best season we've had from a qb Ughhhh fml
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Post by: bojanglesman on September 29, 2023, 02:41:13 PM
He makes absolutely nothing look easy
Like watching a tard do calculus.
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2023, 02:43:27 PM
Maybe we should be signing more crappy veterans.
We just did that and everyone got upset all over again.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 29, 2023, 02:44:07 PM
We just did that and everyone got upset all over again.We need a better crappy veteran who is used to throwing a lot of interceptions.
Jameis, come on down.
Post by: reuben on September 29, 2023, 04:20:17 PM
Like watching a tard do calculus.
More like watching a bad philosophy major do 2 + 2.
"What does 'plus' truly mean? Can it be known?"
Post by: Coach K on September 29, 2023, 05:01:32 PM
*insert pic of Leo from Gilbert grape eating poop*
C mon give us some Mormon magic
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Post by: Badger on September 29, 2023, 05:17:59 PM
https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984 (https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984)We did win all of those games.
Post by: Coach K on September 30, 2023, 10:45:04 AM
We're the 99 bucs and Wilson isn't even Shaun King good
Think on that
*drinks pepto bismol like a wino *
Literally churns my stomach lol
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 30, 2023, 05:51:03 PM
You did the SFD thing to SFD.
Hell Yeah
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 30, 2023, 05:52:45 PM
https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984 (https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1584604509837225984)
If you can’t support Zach Wilson at his Zach Wilson time, then you don’t deserve Zach Wilson at his Zach Wilson time
Post by: bojanglesman on October 01, 2023, 10:09:11 AM
Gonna be a weird stat line, like 400 yards, 4 INTs. Basically he's going to do the same thing Stafford did with Megatron, without Megatron. Eyes closed, heave it up. Honestly, it's more likely to succeed than what we've been doing. At least would open up the run and be more entertaining. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7WuThDWsAETzDS?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 10:15:46 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 01, 2023, 10:22:22 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 10:27:37 AM
Let's go Carolina!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231001/c6e6dff7f98fb5c244e1227672411ad8.jpg)
Post by: Libero_2 on October 01, 2023, 01:48:29 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231001/c6e6dff7f98fb5c244e1227672411ad8.jpg)
Those are two different things.
The concept was always predicated on Minnesota going full tank mode anyways. If he’s got them out of the running for a top QB, then it’s pointless to move him now. If he’s got them in the running for a top qb, it makes sense to move him since I can’t see them doing what the raiders did to Carr and benching him.
But we need to actually be “in the hunt” to justify trading for him, and right now none of us have seen evidence that’s true.
Post by: Coach K on October 01, 2023, 09:22:07 PM
Go zach .Semen can wait
Zach attack let's get him some caffeine pills from Jessie's workout bag.
We got this
In just gonna go full blown sunshine until Semen is under center .
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This kid decided to show up tonight
I told you the golden pants prophecy of Joseph Smith would start tonight
I tested the faith of the board and we have passed
God shall grant us passage through the Mahomes Valley to settle anew in God's name
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Post by: Libero_2 on October 01, 2023, 10:21:11 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 10:51:31 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2023, 11:00:30 PM
Post by: Coach K on October 01, 2023, 11:03:28 PM
Let's go embarrass Sean Payton next week (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231002/fb8e57991c173afa1e5a23758157ffb1.jpg)
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Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 11:03:41 PM
This was definitely his best game. aside from the fumble I really don't have a reason to be mad at him.
Agreed. They have to build off this. Let the kid throw the ball.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 01, 2023, 11:35:05 PM
would do a lot to show continued improvement if he were to play well next week and we come away with the win. next week is not only a must win but a game we should expect to win
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 11:36:06 PM
last year he kinda sucked against the broncos but we were still able to squeak by with the winBroncos defense was also a lot better last year.
would do a lot to show continued improvement if he were to play well next week and we come away with the win. next week is not only a must win but a game we should expect to win
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 11:47:33 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2023, 11:49:40 PM
https://twitter.com/OptaSTATS/status/1708697061829271961
If this winds up being the peak of his career it's going to be one of the funniest footnotes in the history of the NFL.
It's time to face freak Sean Payton.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 11:50:12 PM
https://twitter.com/OptaSTATS/status/1708697061829271961 (https://twitter.com/OptaSTATS/status/1708697061829271961)
Begs the question: so how'd he lose?
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 11:50:43 PM
Begs the question: so how'd he lose?Isiah Pacheco, a couple bad calls, and a missed field goal.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 11:51:24 PM
Isiah Pacheco, a couple bad calls, and a missed field goal.
Were there?
Post by: Coach K on October 01, 2023, 11:53:29 PM
Isiah Pacheco, a couple bad calls, and a missed field goal.Easy to run when the Refs refuse to call holding consistently lol
Chiefs are the new Pat's as far the the ticky tack bullshit that adds up to putting games on silver platters
Their only calls were so obvious it would be a clear rig if they weren't
Then they hit us with that PI lol
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Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 11:53:48 PM
Totally different kid.
Post by: Coach K on October 01, 2023, 11:54:59 PM
Per Lazard, Zach stood up after Saleh spoke in the locker and said it was on him and that he let everyone down.Seriously rooting for this kid to embarass Payton next week he can salvage his career here if he just plays like this
Totally different kid.
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Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 11:56:20 PM
Post by: Coach K on October 02, 2023, 12:36:12 AM
Keep developing kid.
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Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2023, 12:36:39 AM
What a piece of excrement
Post by: Coach K on October 02, 2023, 12:41:14 AM
https://x.com/nyjetsfansonly/status/1708706507615842562?s=46&t=5ospF-7U7rY0VTGIg3PZLgNot even shocked. He covers the sport like he played. Dirty lol
What a piece of excrement
freaking clown car derriere mfer
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Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2023, 01:01:52 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2023, 07:13:14 AM
7 for 14
week 4 off PA
10 for 12
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2023, 08:13:34 AM
https://x.com/nyjetsfansonly/status/1708706507615842562?s=46&t=5ospF-7U7rY0VTGIg3PZLg
What a piece of excrement
I hope Rodney Harrison tears his ACL getting out of bed this morning. freak that guy, and freak NBC for employing that pair of clown shoes.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 08:16:54 AM
https://twitter.com/OptaSTATS/status/1708697061829271961
It was always Plan Z
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 02, 2023, 08:19:02 AM
https://x.com/nyjetsfansonly/status/1708706507615842562?s=46&t=5ospF-7U7rY0VTGIg3PZLg
What a piece of excrement
Respect to Chris Jones though
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 08:21:20 AM
Respect to Chris Jones though
Yeah class acting not falling for that bullshit
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 02, 2023, 08:22:00 AM
weeks 1-3 off PA
7 for 14
week 4 off PA
10 for 12
Playaction works. Please keep using it Hack!
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2023, 08:29:15 AM
Post by: Johnny English on October 02, 2023, 08:29:23 AM
Post by: Coach K on October 02, 2023, 09:37:51 AM
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Post by: Badger on October 02, 2023, 09:39:49 AM
Hes been activated (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231002/98e6e95484f07d30d6de5631bb2d1f0e.jpg)A+
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Post by: Coach K on October 02, 2023, 09:40:00 AM
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 10:51:53 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 11:25:37 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2023, 11:29:13 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 02, 2023, 11:32:53 AM
that PA rollout in the 4th where he had a defender in his face with an open checkdown in conklin in front of him, and he gets it to him. finds him, it goes for >10 yards and a first down. he wasn't doing that the past few weeks, or the past two years. would have just freaked out/run backwards, swallowed the sack, or lose his opportunity to throw it. progressEither that or he lingers on the sideline, throws late, and gives up an easy INT.
Dude looked like a completely different QB.
#ITTFFSP
Post by: insanity on October 02, 2023, 11:39:05 AM
Either that or he lingers on the sideline, throws late, and gives up an easy INT.
Dude looked like a completely different QB.
#ITTFFSP
Maybe the consistently clean pocket allowed him to gain some confidence
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 02, 2023, 11:40:00 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 02, 2023, 11:40:25 AM
We all remember what happened a week after Darnold played the best game of his career
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 11:42:17 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2023, 11:42:43 AM
Not getting any hopes up
We all remember what happened a week after Darnold played the best game of his career
I'm glad you didn't kill yourself after seeing Zazh starting to reach his potential.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 02, 2023, 11:44:53 AM
I'm glad you didn't kill yourself after seeing Zazh starting to reach his potential.
After Geno played the best game of his career his career ended too (for several years)
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2023, 11:45:32 AM
After Geno played the best game of his career his career ended too (for several years)
You should probably get started on figuring out how to fit Zach under the salary cap.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 02, 2023, 11:49:21 AM
You should probably get started on figuring out how to fit Zach under the salary cap.
I already did
Trading Lamar is going to open up a freak ton of cap space
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2023, 11:51:18 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2023, 11:52:59 AM
I already did
Trading Lamar is going to open up a freak ton of cap space
We should trade Lamar for Jimmy G's concussion specialist
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 02, 2023, 11:53:45 AM
#ITTFFSP
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2023, 11:58:18 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 02, 2023, 12:17:24 PM
#ITTFFSP
Post by: Coach K on October 02, 2023, 12:43:45 PM
It took him most of the first quarter to get into a rhythm. Hopefully he can get into it earlier for week 5.He should now that he knows he can do it
#ITTFFSP
Now that Hackett and him are actually gameplaning for our actual QB and not who we wished we had lol
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 01:29:14 PM
It’s been a weird 2 weeks
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 02, 2023, 03:21:06 PM
https://x.com/nyjetsfansonly/status/1708706507615842562?s=46&t=5ospF-7U7rY0VTGIg3PZLg
What a piece of excrement
https://twitter.com/scottyd8892/status/1708798568604061994 (https://twitter.com/scottyd8892/status/1708798568604061994)
#ITTFFSP
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 04:13:15 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 04:14:32 PM
https://x.com/valverdeszn/status/1708683507357118770?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
https://x.com/cyjpod/status/1708938686136812018?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Did they do handshakes twice or something?
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2023, 04:16:02 PM
https://x.com/cyjpod/status/1708938686136812018?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
don't think he said anything about 'you played like aaron rodgers', sounds like it was 'play like that all year you got the effin talent'. but still very nice words from him and i'm sure it'll push zach even more
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 04:22:04 PM
it was the headband that was freaking him up
(https://i.ibb.co/cgMQ7YH/IMG-1704.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tmkDWLt)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2023, 04:24:57 PM
don't think he said anything about 'you played like aaron rodgers', sounds like it was 'play like that all year you got the effin talent'. but still very nice words from him and i'm sure it'll push zach even more
The audio cuts several times due to the cursing, but I’m pretty he says he shook his hand breed tub and then walked away
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2023, 06:09:33 PM
The audio cuts several times due to the cursing, but I’m pretty he says he shook his hand breed tub and then walked away
can someone please explain the breed tub to me. i know it's something from tommy and from leonard williams (i think?), but i was in med school at the time and nowhere near these boards, so i do not understand the reference. but i keep seeing you guys talk about breed tub
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2023, 06:25:42 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/cgMQ7YH/IMG-1704.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tmkDWLt)
took off the headband and homie enters his villain mode
we ball
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2023, 06:30:32 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 02, 2023, 06:33:09 PM
Homelander SZNfreak you, I'll never unsee that.
#ITTFFSP
Post by: Badger on October 02, 2023, 07:32:59 PM
freak you, I'll never unsee that.It's already canon
#ITTFFSP
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR7Atgd5/
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 02, 2023, 07:37:38 PM
It's already canonBan TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR7Atgd5/
#ITTFFSP
Post by: reuben on October 03, 2023, 12:00:59 AM
Caption this
Post by: Badger on October 03, 2023, 05:55:27 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 03, 2023, 08:05:38 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7dkZOaXcAAJmmO?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Caption this
I didn't know the Heimlich worked in reverse.
Post by: steves850 on October 03, 2023, 08:11:05 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7dkZOaXcAAJmmO?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Caption this
Birth of a sport, Da Vinci, 1482
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 03, 2023, 09:50:41 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7dkZOaXcAAJmmO?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Caption this
How Mormons Give Birth / excrement, 2023
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 03, 2023, 10:54:44 AM
Trending upward
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 03, 2023, 10:56:14 AM
Would be interested to see this plot with the last 10 minutes of the cowboys game deleted
Post by: Coach K on October 03, 2023, 08:29:36 PM
#ITTFFSP
Post by: reuben on October 03, 2023, 09:05:57 PM
Post by: Coach K on October 03, 2023, 09:11:24 PM
And not just the mothers, but the grandmothers and great grandmothers too.He was billed as a potential generational talent
#ITTFFSP
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 03, 2023, 10:26:52 PM
this is an awesome tweet lol
he decided to let the sweat into his eyes instead of tears
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 05, 2023, 08:27:22 PM
Mac Jones 14 (4)
Desmond Ridder 11 (3)
Sam Howell 10 (5)
Josh Allen 9 (4)
Ryan Tannehill 9 (4)
Jimmy Garoppolo 9 (6)
Joshua Dobbs 8 (0)
Jordan Love 8 (3)
Kenny Pickett 8 (4)
Justin Fields 8 (5)
Jalen Hurts 7 (3)
Patrick Mahomes 7 (4)
Daniel Jones 7 (6)
Tua Tagovailoa 6 (3)
Geno Smith 5 (1)
Justin Herbert 5 (1)
Derek Carr 5 (2)
Zach Wilson 5 (4)
Brock Purdy 4 (0)
Dak Prescott 4 (1)
Baker Mayfield 4 (2)
Bryce Young 4 (2)
Joe Burrow 4 (2)
Russell Wilson 4 (2)
C.J. Stroud 3 (0)
Anthony Richardson 3 (1)
Lamar Jackson 3 (1)
Deshaun Watson 3 (2)
Trevor Lawrence 3 (2)
Jared Goff 3 (3)
Kirk Cousins 3 (4)
Matthew Stafford 3 (5)
For context, there have been a little more than 2x the interception-worthy throws than interceptions, according to @FTNData
So, Stafford having five INTs on three INT-worthy throws is very unlucky
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 05, 2023, 09:20:38 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 05, 2023, 09:23:04 PM
Let Zach Cook
Post by: Libero_2 on October 05, 2023, 10:18:43 PM
Most interception-worthy throws (actual interceptions) according to @FTNData
Mac Jones 14 (4)
Desmond Ridder 11 (3)
Sam Howell 10 (5)
Josh Allen 9 (4)
Ryan Tannehill 9 (4)
Jimmy Garoppolo 9 (6)
Joshua Dobbs 8 (0)
Jordan Love 8 (3)
Kenny Pickett 8 (4)
Justin Fields 8 (5)
Jalen Hurts 7 (3)
Patrick Mahomes 7 (4)
Daniel Jones 7 (6)
Tua Tagovailoa 6 (3)
Geno Smith 5 (1)
Justin Herbert 5 (1)
Derek Carr 5 (2)
Zach Wilson 5 (4)
Brock Purdy 4 (0)
Dak Prescott 4 (1)
Baker Mayfield 4 (2)
Bryce Young 4 (2)
Joe Burrow 4 (2)
Russell Wilson 4 (2)
C.J. Stroud 3 (0)
Anthony Richardson 3 (1)
Lamar Jackson 3 (1)
Deshaun Watson 3 (2)
Trevor Lawrence 3 (2)
Jared Goff 3 (3)
Kirk Cousins 3 (4)
Matthew Stafford 3 (5)
For context, there have been a little more than 2x the interception-worthy throws than interceptions, according to @FTNData
So, Stafford having five INTs on three INT-worthy throws is very unlucky
Of course Mac Jones would already have more dropped ints than basically every QB will have across the entire season.
Zach also having 4 of his 5 potential ints is also “unlucky” compared to the rest of the league. Not as unlucky as Stafford of course, but still unluckier than most of the league percentage wise.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 09, 2023, 04:22:37 PM
this week, we had him operate more as a game manager with very run-heavy playcalling
two good performances in a row, for different reasons
have to give credit to the staff for figuring out ways to optimize him for success, and finding ways to simplify the decisions he has to make out there
Post by: steves850 on October 09, 2023, 04:29:04 PM
444 Yards
2 TD, 1 INT
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 09, 2023, 04:32:29 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 09, 2023, 04:39:50 PM
If he keeps playing like this then we're in the hunt for the playoffs. If he learns how to find the endzone then we're in.
i think finding the endzone more will do wonders for his psyche, and that'll in turn lead to increased confidence in himself and from the staff, leading to more touchdowns
i keep thinking about his disappointed response when his pass for a would-be TD to garrett against the cowboys was deflected. he was that close and he knew it. he wants this excrement badly
Post by: guinness77 on October 09, 2023, 04:47:08 PM
can someone please explain the breed tub to me. i know it's something from tommy and from leonard williams (i think?), but i was in med school at the time and nowhere near these boards, so i do not understand the reference. but i keep seeing you guys talk about breed tubIt was so long ago that I want to say Tommy met him in a strip club (I know…shocking) and when he said it his post was this grammatical sentence of excrement that I don’t believe was ever changed or explained by him afterward.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 09, 2023, 05:03:22 PM
Hackett needs to design a run-heavy offense with lots of PA, and everything not PA should be quick-strike throws to one of Zach's first two progressions. If he doesn't see the opening on his second look, he should be tucking and running or throwing it away.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 09, 2023, 05:08:55 PM
Ball security is a problem though. Too many fumbles last two weeks. Chiefs one burned us. That one was fluky. But he also had 2 fumbles against Denver. We recovered both (and he recovered one), but he can't be putting the ball on the ground twice during a game.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 09, 2023, 05:12:44 PM
Zach completing 70% passes in back-to-back games for a not-terrible YPA is impressive. He was legitimately good against the Chiefs. He was a fine game manager this week.For some reason my brain blanked those out.
Ball security is a problem though. Too many fumbles last two weeks. Chiefs one burned us. That one was fluky. But he also had 2 fumbles against Denver. We recovered both (and he recovered one), but he can't be putting the ball on the ground twice during a game.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 09, 2023, 05:43:44 PM
Zach completing 70% passes in back-to-back games for a not-terrible YPA is impressive. He was legitimately good against the Chiefs. He was a fine game manager this week.
Ball security is a problem though. Too many fumbles last two weeks. Chiefs one burned us. That one was fluky. But he also had 2 fumbles against Denver. We recovered both (and he recovered one), but he can't be putting the ball on the ground twice during a game.
Yesterday’s game gives me hope he can be the game manager we’re looking for if we set him up to do well
Agreed on the fumbles. He’s going for it all and for every yard he can get out there and is diving head first for extra yards. Then he gets mashed and/or ball pops out. We have to stress to him to slide feet first (or bail out of bounds on the sidelines) irrespective of yardage, to protect the ball and his body. If it’s 3rd/4th and short we’ll figure it out
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 09, 2023, 07:00:54 PM
Yesterday’s game gives me hope he can be the game manager we’re looking for if we set him up to do well
Agreed on the fumbles. He’s going for it all and for every yard he can get out there and is diving head first for extra yards. Then he gets mashed and/or ball pops out. We have to stress to him to slide feet first (or bail out of bounds on the sidelines) irrespective of yardage, to protect the ball and his body. If it’s 3rd/4th and short we’ll figure it out
But is he dropping the ball when he runs? I can't remember for sure, but I feel like the ball is being knocked out while he's looking for a target to throw to. That's part of why I think he needs to have limited options before getting out of the pocket.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 09, 2023, 07:25:46 PM
But is he dropping the ball when he runs? I can't remember for sure, but I feel like the ball is being knocked out while he's looking for a target to throw to. That's part of why I think he needs to have limited options before getting out of the pocket.It was both.
Post by: reuben on October 09, 2023, 07:30:26 PM
Zach completing 70% passes in back-to-back games for a not-terrible YPA is impressive. He was legitimately good against the Chiefs. He was a fine game manager this week.
Ball security is a problem though. Too many fumbles last two weeks. Chiefs one burned us. That one was fluky. But he also had 2 fumbles against Denver. We recovered both (and he recovered one), but he can't be putting the ball on the ground twice during a game.
It was three IMO. There would have been more angles if the play hadn't (mercifully) been blown dead, but I think this was a fumble.
(https://i.imgur.com/sSgY1Pd.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on October 09, 2023, 09:02:38 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 09, 2023, 10:05:52 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 09, 2023, 11:38:21 PM
If you watch Zach drop back and throw quickly, all will be good. If you see him drop back and take some time, who knows. When he gets rid of it quickly, I have no fear.Agreed. My heart sank before he completed the 3rd down pass to Conklin once he got off his first read. I thought play might be dead.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 10, 2023, 04:49:00 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 10, 2023, 05:10:02 AM
The one thing that gives me hope is that he seems to be starting to read his progressions. Last year and up to the pats, if his main target was covered the Jets were royally fucked. Now he is looking to his second and third options, and hitting them. For freak sake if he did that against the Pats this team is 3-2 heading into the Philly game. For two games at least, he is light years ahead of what he was.
I think we can all agree with that last sentence.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 10, 2023, 08:26:25 AM
Post by: reuben on October 11, 2023, 12:45:33 PM
Let Zach PAss
Post by: MBGreen on October 11, 2023, 12:54:21 PM
The one thing that gives me hope is that he seems to be starting to read his progressions. Last year and up to the pats, if his main target was covered the Jets were royally fucked. Now he is looking to his second and third options, and hitting them. For freak sake if he did that against the Pats this team is 3-2 heading into the Philly game. For two games at least, he is light years ahead of what he was.
TBF Zach is being coached and supported this year. This wasn't happening last year.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 01:26:10 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8GhIGDXoAAWvfE?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Let Zach PAss
If only the coaching staff would pay attention when we bang this drum on this board.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2023, 02:42:19 PM
If only the coaching staff would pay attention when we bang this drum on this board.
If the coaching staff paid any attention to 95% of this board we'd have been watching Trevor Siemian the last two games.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 02:48:36 PM
If the coaching staff paid any attention to 95% of this board we'd have been watching Trevor Siemian the last two games.
Would we?
I don't recall anyone here asking for any Siemian in the huddle.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2023, 02:53:05 PM
Would we?
I don't recall anyone here asking for any Siemian in the huddle.
Technically it was an "anyone but Zach" sentiment, so I'll grant you that you can replace Siemian with Boyle if you wish. The point is that you can't claim that this board knows better than the coaching staff when it comes to how best to use Zach, when overwhelmingly this board would have replaced him two or more games ago.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 11, 2023, 02:56:07 PM
TBF Zach is being coached and supported this year. This wasn't happening last year.
It's almost like it was a huge mistake to draft a qb #2 overall and hire a first year head coach that was a defensive coordinator and an offensive coordinator to oversee Zach's growth that had never done it before.
Unless it comes out after the fact that Woody and Chris pushed for it and froze Joe D out of the process, its a huge L for him.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 11, 2023, 03:18:33 PM
Technically it was an "anyone but Zach" sentiment, so I'll grant you that you can replace Siemian with Boyle if you wish. The point is that you can't claim that this board knows better than the coaching staff when it comes to how best to use Zach, when overwhelmingly this board would have replaced him two or more games ago.Never really understood that sentiment. I get Zach stinks but he is young and has theoretical upside. He has been mediocre before.
Siemian and Boyle are known bad entities. They should only be used in emergency. Another game like the Pats game could have brought us to that emergency but luckily Zach has been relatively OK.
Post by: reuben on October 11, 2023, 04:03:55 PM
Never really understood that sentiment. I get Zach stinks but he is young and has theoretical upside. He has been mediocre before.
It's not that Zach stinks, it's that he hadn't demonstrated really any ability to improve prior to this season. There was no evidence that he was a better quarterback in week 15 of 2022 (Jags) than he was in week 1 of 2021. He was worse, if anything.
That's not the case this year, especially in the past two weeks. He seems to have fixed his short throw accuracy, which was probably the biggest red flag in his skillset. If he's going to show signs of improvement from week to week, I'm much more comfortable sticking with him than opting for a smarter quarterback who also isn't likely to improve but might give us a better chance to win here and now.
It's never been about "Zach is bad." It's always been about "Zach is bad and he's not getting any better."
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2023, 04:25:28 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 05:20:24 PM
Technically it was an "anyone but Zach" sentiment, so I'll grant you that you can replace Siemian with Boyle if you wish. The point is that you can't claim that this board knows better than the coaching staff when it comes to how best to use Zach, when overwhelmingly this board would have replaced him two or more games ago.
Was it even an "anyone but Zach" sentiment? Once again, my memory is clearly not great, but I feel like the sentiment on this board was "Zach should not be the QB1 of this team, and there's no way I want to see Boyle or Siemian on the field. Get someone else."
There was certainly disagreement with who the someone else might be, (trading for Cousins or Minshew, signing Colt McCoy or Matt Ryan, etc.) but I think it was pretty standard that no one wanted any of the QBs on the active roster to be starting games.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2023, 05:21:49 PM
Was it even an "anyone but Zach" sentiment?
It certainly was.
And then we signed Trevor Siemian.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 05:25:18 PM
I want to see more bootlegs and more read option. I know the ball security was rough against Denver, but he's too good of a runner to sit in the pocket all game.
There was a red zone play, from like the 5 or so, where I said to my kid--this better be a bootleg. If Zach had rolled out (I think Garrett was the only one lined up on that side) even if he didn't throw it, he probably would have walked in. It wasn't. I can't remember if we scored or it wound up a FG.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 05:26:45 PM
It certainly was.
And then we signed Trevor Siemian.
Ugh, bad memory on my part then. I certainly wanted absolutely nothing to do with Boyle. I wanted "not Zach" but not "anyone else."
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2023, 05:30:09 PM
There was a red zone play, from like the 5 or so, where I said to my kid--this better be a bootleg. If Zach had rolled out (I think Garrett was the only one lined up on that side) even if he didn't throw it, he probably would have walked in. It wasn't. I can't remember if we scored or it wound up a FG.
If it was the Denver game, the drive ended with a field goal.
Not sure if this was the same play or not, but Garrett Wilson was up top, 1x1 with Surtain. I was screaming for Zach to check to fade, but we ran it. Looks like they saw it later in the game and Wilson threw a bad ball inside instead of back shoulder. That's the play where Surtain made an elite interception.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 05:33:18 PM
If it was the Denver game, the drive ended with a field goal.
Not sure if this was the same play or not, but Garrett Wilson was up top, 1x1 with Surtain. I was screaming for Zach to check to fade, but we ran it. Looks like they saw it later in the game and Wilson threw a bad ball inside instead of back shoulder. That's the play where Surtain made an elite interception.
99% sure that was the play.
Post by: Coach K on October 11, 2023, 06:06:46 PM
I want to see more bootlegs and more read option. I know the ball security was rough against Denver, but he's too good of a runner to sit in the pocket all game.Also moving the launch point seems to help him tremendously
I hope it's more of a DVOA on Broncos run d being historically bad but it became such a run run pass formula I think part of that killed tbe Redzone
Considering hurts may tear us up 10x worse than russ with his legs I have a feeling zach will be called upon more like the chiefs game vs a game manager plan last week
#ITTFFSP
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2023, 06:50:39 PM
I think it was pretty standard that no one wanted any of the QBs on the active roster to be starting games.
I mean.... not to be the "I told you so" guy, and it's still only two games, but at least one of us wanted Zach out there.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 07:10:43 PM
I mean.... not to be the "I told you so" guy, and it's still only two games, but at least one of us wanted Zach out there.
Yes, you were tooting the Zach horn all along. I was too until the Pats game. But it looked like he was the same old Zach until he started playing better the last couple of weeks.
But he's still not great. He's streaky as hell. I'd still trade for Cousins right this second, but I'm not tossing Zach out on his derriere at the moment and I'll support him until I have someone else to support or he settles in and is consistently good.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2023, 07:12:58 PM
Yes, you were tooting the Zach horn all along. I was too until the Pats game. But it looked like he was the same old Zach until he started playing better the last couple of weeks.
It did not. I explained why at the time.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 07:29:31 PM
It did not. I explained why at the time.
I still disagree.
He still makes the same mental mistakes. The difference now is that Hackett has adjusted the offense to put him in better situations, and the OL was playing better. We'll see how he looks this week.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2023, 07:43:51 PM
Can’t wait to see the overreactions this weekend.
Post by: Jumbo on October 11, 2023, 08:40:23 PM
Yeah, let’s see how he looks against one of the best teams in the league. The turnstile at right tackle will certainly help.
Can’t wait to see the overreactions this weekend.
He showed enough promise the last couple of games that he gets to keep the job through the bye but I'm expecting nothing but another Zach Wilson horror show vs. that defensive line
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2023, 08:41:32 PM
He showed enough promise the last couple of games that he gets to keep the job through the bye but I'm expecting nothing but another Zach Wilson horror show vs. that defensive line
He might die this Sunday
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 10:10:36 PM
Yeah, let’s see how he looks against one of the best teams in the league. The turnstile at right tackle will certainly help.
Can’t wait to see the overreactions this weekend.
I don't expect him to excel, but he should at least look competent, no?
At this point, I don't feel like I'll overreact to Zach. I expect him to be very up and down. This week will probably be very down. On the other hand, he might come out and play like he did vs KC and it would be a big step forward to me, rather than being a "fluke" (for lack of a better word).
My mindset with Zach at this point is: just don't lose the game. That gives us a chance every week.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 11, 2023, 10:40:57 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 11, 2023, 10:57:33 PM
He's looked better in specific situations where he looked terrible as recent as two weeks ago. I don't know what Hackett has done to adjust, I don't know if having Aaron Rodgers in there has helped him. I don't care. I want our draft picks to work.
100% agree, no argument
Post by: insanity on October 12, 2023, 01:49:52 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 12, 2023, 09:21:02 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 12, 2023, 10:01:04 AM
They are going to stack the box against him and make him pass to win. Either he will have some success to open up the run, get murdered because of his o-line, or become Vinny Interceptaverde again. I worry more about sack-fumbles than interceptions. I think they have to error on the side of being aggressive and creative, knowing that interceptions are possible. We won't be able to hand off to Breece and expect him to rip off 30 yard runs over and over. The Broncos suck. The Eagles don't. I'd rather lose trying to pass than running 3 times into a wall and punting. Our defense is good, but they aren't holding the Eagles to 13 points. If history is predictive, the Jets will give up 2 quick scores in the first quarter before they decide to play defense.
#SOJF
Post by: bojanglesman on October 12, 2023, 10:38:22 AM
#SOJF
Tell me I'm wrong. All I'm saying is that we can't just run the ball because we have a good running back. What would you do if you were the Eagles defense? Defend against the guy that just ran for 170 yards or defend against the shaky QB with a history of throwing interceptions?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 12, 2023, 10:48:54 AM
Tell me I'm wrong. All I'm saying is that we can't just run the ball because we have a good running back. What would you do if you were the Eagles defense? Defend against the guy that just ran for 170 yards or defend against the shaky QB with a history of throwing interceptions?
Philly can do both at the same time because they have elite pass rushers and one of the best defensive tackle prospects to ever step on a field.
They are so good up front that they don't need to load the box.
Post by: MBGreen on October 12, 2023, 11:04:28 AM
Tell me I'm wrong. All I'm saying is that we can't just run the ball because we have a good running back. What would you do if you were the Eagles defense? Defend against the guy that just ran for 170 yards or defend against the shaky QB with a history of throwing interceptions?
you are wrong
Post by: Badger on October 15, 2023, 07:28:23 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on October 15, 2023, 09:11:13 PM
They are going to stack the box against him and make him pass to win. Either he will have some success to open up the run, get murdered because of his o-line, or become Vinny Interceptaverde again. I worry more about sack-fumbles than interceptions. I think they have to error on the side of being aggressive and creative, knowing that interceptions are possible. We won't be able to hand off to Breece and expect him to rip off 30 yard runs over and over. The Broncos suck. The Eagles don't. I'd rather lose trying to pass than running 3 times into a wall and punting. Our defense is good, but they aren't holding the Eagles to 13 points. If history is predictive, the Jets will give up 2 quick scores in the first quarter before they decide to play defense.
Tell me I'm wrong. All I'm saying is that we can't just run the ball because we have a good running back. What would you do if you were the Eagles defense? Defend against the guy that just ran for 170 yards or defend against the shaky QB with a history of throwing interceptions?
you are wrong
He wasn't bro, he was 100% correct, the Jets Defense could not hold the Eagles to 13 points.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 15, 2023, 09:13:10 PM
He wasn't bro, he was 100% correct, the Jets Defense could not hold the Eagles to 13 points.
Yeah I'm kinda wrong a lot.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 15, 2023, 09:13:13 PM
Another solid game manager performance. No very bad throws, but a couple bad sacks that were partially on him.
He was ok but man the WR's don't help him.
He needs to have more situational awareness, some of those sacks are atrocious.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 15, 2023, 09:14:34 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 15, 2023, 09:15:43 PM
He was ok but man the WR's don't help him.
He needs to have more situational awareness, some of those sacks are atrocious.
I’ll take the shitty sacks over the dumbass turnovers
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 16, 2023, 08:13:53 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 16, 2023, 08:15:35 AM
I’ll take the shitty sacks over the dumbass turnovers
Exactly this
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 16, 2023, 08:16:51 AM
I’ll take the shitty sacks over the dumbass turnoversYep. Progress is progress. Just so long as he keeps trending up and staying healthy. It looked like he hurt his leg at one point during the game and I was holding my breath that we'd see Tom Boyle on the next snap.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 19, 2023, 01:01:16 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 19, 2023, 01:03:29 PM
https://x.com/kevincole___/status/1715020494326378850?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Michael Carter morphed into Ty Johnson
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 19, 2023, 02:22:16 PM
https://x.com/kevincole___/status/1715020494326378850?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Michael Carter gotta unfuck his hands.
EDIT: FU HEIS
Post by: Badger on October 19, 2023, 05:34:50 PM
Michael Carter gotta unfuck his hands.It's time to unfuck Michael Carter
EDIT: FU HEIS
#ITTUFMC
Post by: Coach K on October 19, 2023, 06:54:31 PM
It's time to unfuck Michael CarterI can dig it .
#ITTUFMC
Tuggaliscious Tendencies
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2023, 04:33:18 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231020/ce6b163c0bda959db85038f1cde30f68.jpg)
Post by: Johnny English on October 25, 2023, 03:01:36 PM
Post by: Badger on October 29, 2023, 04:44:32 PM
Zach Wilson was 4-of-7 for 67 yards on the Jets’ final drive of regulation to set up the game-tying FG. That includes 2-of-3 on throws 15+ yards downfield, and 2-of-2 on throws under duress. Prior to that drive, Wilson was 1-of-4 on throws 15+ yards downfield, and 4-of-13 under duress. #Jets
Post by: Libero_2 on October 29, 2023, 05:42:49 PM
Cimini:
Zach Wilson was 4-of-7 for 67 yards on the Jets’ final drive of regulation to set up the game-tying FG. That includes 2-of-3 on throws 15+ yards downfield, and 2-of-2 on throws under duress. Prior to that drive, Wilson was 1-of-4 on throws 15+ yards downfield, and 4-of-13 under duress. #Jets
The final drive started with 24 seconds. Zach did not throw 7 times on the final drive.
Post by: reuben on October 29, 2023, 05:48:31 PM
Post by: reuben on October 29, 2023, 05:49:30 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 29, 2023, 05:50:40 PM
https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1718737863842451867 (https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1718737863842451867)#TradeRodgers
Post by: Johnny English on October 29, 2023, 05:51:25 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 29, 2023, 06:22:02 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 29, 2023, 06:45:23 PM
There's been the question for weeks whether he could win a game himself, and he answered yes today,
Post by: Badger on October 29, 2023, 06:49:17 PM
I'm still not convinced Zach's the answer, but he overcame a bad offensive line that was then riddled by injuries. He was far from perfect, but he legit won the game when given the chance at the end.Zach has never done enough to convince us he's the answer. But he's doing enough to not immediately lose his job.
There's been the question for weeks whether he could win a game himself, and he answered yes today,
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2023, 06:55:30 PM
He's playing as confident as ever. Hackett needs to just let it rip (unless it's third and short, then run the goddamn football.)
Post by: steves850 on October 29, 2023, 07:01:16 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 29, 2023, 07:08:11 PM
Zach has never done enough to convince us he's the answer. But he's doing enough to not immediately lose his job.
Especially given the player that the detractors wanted to replace him tore his achilles today.
Post by: steves850 on October 29, 2023, 07:09:30 PM
Especially given the player that the detractors wanted to replace him tore his achilles today.
Neither of them have been vaxxed and both tore their achilles this year... interesting.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 29, 2023, 07:10:34 PM
Zach has never done enough to convince us he's the answer. But he's doing enough to not immediately lose his job.Barely..
Post by: Badger on October 29, 2023, 07:14:27 PM
Barely..I felt my praise was faint enough.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2023, 07:15:46 PM
Not many QBs are doing much against that
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 29, 2023, 07:17:11 PM
I felt my praise was faint enough.Honestly if they won this game on a defensive TD or something not from Zach, I might say Tannehill should be a Jet tomorrow
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 29, 2023, 07:17:34 PM
What is the difference between ZW in the 2 minute warning and the rest of the game? I'm sure defensive scheme is a big factor, they're playing to not give up the big play, less pressure and open in the middle but it feels more than that.
I wrote a couple of times, he seems to do better when he doesn't have time to think. Just run the play called, and only go through your first 2 progressions. If nothing's there, tuck and run or throw it away,
There's time to learn and expand, but for now, simplify everything for him and let his natural talent play.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 29, 2023, 07:24:55 PM
Honestly if they won this game on a defensive TD or something not from Zach, I might say Tannehill should be a Jet tomorrow
I usually agree with the SNY crew, who were banging the "trade for a QB" drum tonight. But I disagree,
Put resources into acquiring a WR and OL. No QB is coming in here right now with this line and having only Garrett and Breece as weapons and having success,
Post by: Badger on October 29, 2023, 07:27:26 PM
I usually agree with the SNY crew, who were banging the "trade for a QB" drum tonight. But I disagree,
Put resources into acquiring a WR and OL. No QB is coming in here right now with this line and having only Garrett and Breece as weapons and having success,
Yeah, I agree with that. Put more into the offense and hope either Zach blooms or Rodgers returns. We're not snubbing any can't miss QBs in the meantime.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 29, 2023, 07:33:18 PM
I usually agree with the SNY crew, who were banging the "trade for a QB" drum tonight. But I disagree,It all depends on the cost. I don't want to give a big pick for a QB. But Tannehill is an FA after the year and it seems like they're moving on. We might be able to get him cheap. I don't even think he's that good anymore, but he's probably better than Zach.
Put resources into acquiring a WR and OL. No QB is coming in here right now with this line and having only Garrett and Breece as weapons and having success,
I don't want to say Wilson is the only problem because he's not. The OL was bad. The receivers are bad besides Garrett. The weather sucked.
Receiver is the easiest one to fix, and I think we should do that. Again, we don't need anyone amazing, but we need help there. Maybe it's Brownlee, but I doubt it. But Wilson is not good enough to have his job guaranteed. And if he falls apart like he did last season, which is very possible, then this season is in the toilet again.
For the record, we won today, and he led the game-winning drives, so I'm fine not adding a QB. But if this game ends as a 10-7 loss, I would have been fine punting everyone on the offense besides Breece and GW into the sun.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 29, 2023, 07:41:35 PM
It all depends on the cost. I don't want to give a big pick for a QB. But Tannehill is an FA after the year and it seems like they're moving on. We might be able to get him cheap. I don't even think he's that good anymore, but he's probably better than Zach.
I don't want to say Wilson is the only problem because he's not. The OL was bad. The receivers are bad besides Garrett. The weather sucked.
Receiver is the easiest one to fix, and I think we should do that. Again, we don't need anyone amazing, but we need help there. Maybe it's Brownlee, but I doubt it. But Wilson is not good enough to have his job guaranteed. And if he falls apart like he did last season, which is very possible, then this season is in the toilet again.
For the record, we won today, and he led the game-winning drives, so I'm fine not adding a QB. But if this game ends as a 10-7 loss, I would have been fine punting everyone on the offense besides Breece and GW into the sun.
Tannehill's a waste of a draft pick. We don't have a ton of capital and without a better OL and another quality weapon, he wouldn't have success.
It's far better to try to get pieces for the line and a WR who is worth attention from opposing defenses. Garrett is catching passes in triple coverage. Imagine what he could do if someone else warranted significant attention and he cou;d get into more 1-on-1s?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2023, 07:49:20 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2023, 07:56:59 PM
Post by: Laxin on October 29, 2023, 08:35:37 PM
Zach's showing toughness. He's getting his derriere kicked behind that offensive line and he's standing in there taking hits, but still delivering some really good throws at times.
He's playing as confident as ever. Hackett needs to just let it rip (unless it's third and short, then run the goddamn football.)
It seems that whenever Hackett lets him play, the offense begins to move the ball.
It was hard to watch them run every first down and get stuffed. It was incredibly predictable and always put them behind. I understand weather conditions weren't great and they didn't need to do a ton on offense, but the conservative play calling is killing drives.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 29, 2023, 09:38:06 PM
"Twenty-four seconds, no problem."
He used to be a cocky little excrement. Now he says kind of the same things but it's actual confidence. He's a different guy than in the past couple of seasons.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 29, 2023, 09:51:14 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 29, 2023, 11:06:07 PM
Joe Douglas knew...
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 09:45:29 AM
Post by: Laxin on October 30, 2023, 09:48:12 AM
No one on the offense can consistently create separation besides GW, and when he can’t get open, Zach is left holding on to the ball. He doesn’t flush out the back as much. Give him another receiver and a decent OL and I think he could be an average QB.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 30, 2023, 10:46:50 AM
I felt my praise was faint enough.
No
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 10:51:40 AM
Post by: Jumbo on October 30, 2023, 10:52:41 AM
Rewatching all of his drop backs just now, and he didn’t play a bad game. There were 5-6 bad drops, there was no run game to speak of, and he obviously had no time to throw. He looks a lot better than previous years.
No one on the offense can consistently create separation besides GW, and when he can’t get open, Zach is left holding on to the ball. He doesn’t flush out the back as much. Give him another receiver and a decent OL and I think he could be an average QB.
The bar is so low for Zach that sub-50% completion percentage, 1 TD and 2 turnovers is "not a bad game." By his standards that's true but we scored 10 in regulation against a shitty defense. Obviously there are other issues and I'm not saying he hasn't improved... but the bar is truly on the ground.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2023, 10:54:16 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on October 30, 2023, 10:55:28 AM
If he was another teams QB, we would be laughing our derriere off at how bad he sucks.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2023, 10:57:30 AM
The hoops you guys are jumping through to call Zach decent is pretty funny.
If he was another teams QB, we would be laughing our derriere off at how bad he sucks.
No one's saying he's good. He isn't losing us games. He's playing the way we need him to behind a terrible, injured offensive line. I don't think any QB in the league is doing a whole lot better in that situation yesterday.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 11:00:10 AM
The bar is so low for Zach that sub-50% completion percentage, 1 TD and 2 turnovers is "not a bad game." By his standards that's true but we scored 10 in regulation against a shitty defense. Obviously there are other issues and I'm not saying he hasn't improved... but the bar is truly on the ground.
One of those turnovers was the inevitable result of the OLine getting absolutely abused by Thibodeaux, the other was a botched snap with a center he had never played with before, and I don’t think ever played center in the NFL before. There’s a lot more going wrong with this offense than Zach Wilson.
No one thinks he’s a world beater; he’s a backup QB holding an offense decimated by injury together and he definitely deserves credit for that.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 30, 2023, 11:01:47 AM
No one's saying he's good. He isn't losing us games. He's playing the way we need him to behind a terrible, injured offensive line. I don't think any QB in the league is doing a whole lot better in that situation game yesterday.
Lol not any QB on the league? He's a bottom 10 QB and that's very generous.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2023, 11:05:36 AM
Lol not any QB on the league? He's a bottom 10 QB and that's very generous.
I'm talking about the situation yesterday. That's was a freaking nightmare scenario for any QB. It wasn't just a rough situation, he's back there trying to break in a guy on the fly who played center one game in college, all while running for his life 24/7 because he also has a guy playing guard that is a tackle. Can't run because everyone in the stadium knows they are. That was one of the worst situations I've ever seen a QB placed in. Same goes for the Giants' backup.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 11:08:46 AM
The hoops you guys are jumping through to call Zach decent is pretty funny.
If he was another teams QB, we would be laughing our derriere off at how bad he sucks.
Their nose tackle had 15 pressures by himself. We also couldn't change up cadence or make many calls up front because our centers went down. We basically couldn't make adjustments up front pre-snap.
Any QB would've struggled yesterday.
Breece Hall had 10 carries for 12 yards. We couldn't do anything offensively.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 30, 2023, 11:25:33 AM
Their nose tackle had 15 pressures by himself. We also couldn't change up cadence or make many calls up front because our centers went down. We basically couldn't make adjustments up front pre-snap.
Any QB would've struggled yesterday.
Breece Hall had 10 carries for 12 yards. We couldn't do anything offensively.
It's not a one week thing. It's basically every week, his stats are alarmingly bad and always have been. If it was the reverse and it was one bad week then well who cares. It isn't, let's call a spade a spade, he's a really bad QB but we're stuck with him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 11:32:58 AM
Their nose tackle had 15 pressures by himself. We also couldn't change up cadence or make many calls up front because our centers went down. We basically couldn't make adjustments up front pre-snap.
This was also the case before McGovern and Schweitzer went down, and it’s been the case prior to this game. Zach needs to figure out how to adjust pre-snap and Hackett needs to learn how to set him up better, but the those two injuries weren’t the sole source of this problem.
I agree with everything else, though.
Post by: insanity on October 30, 2023, 11:36:27 AM
The bar is so low for Zach that sub-50% completion percentage, 1 TD and 2 turnovers is "not a bad game." By his standards that's true but we scored 10 in regulation against a shitty defense. Obviously there are other issues and I'm not saying he hasn't improved... but the bar is truly on the ground.The giants defense is not shitty.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 30, 2023, 11:37:20 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 11:39:28 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 11:52:32 AM
The bar is so low for Zach that sub-50% completion percentage, 1 TD and 2 turnovers is "not a bad game." By his standards that's true but we scored 10 in regulation against a shitty defense. Obviously there are other issues and I'm not saying he hasn't improved... but the bar is truly on the ground.
Yeah, we’re not putting the 2nd fumble on Zach
Even the first one, Becton got completely owned on that rep. It would be nice if Zach had eyes in the back of his head, but he never saw Kayvon. Ironically, he had his eyes on Dexter Lawrence because he was about to flatten him too
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 11:58:11 AM
We love to talk about Zach, but the OL, run game, and WRs other than GW are freaking AWFUL. Why don’t those players/units get the same criticism as Zach?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 11:59:00 AM
The giants defense is not shitty.
Josh Allen threw for 169 yards a couple weeks ago but he’s elite
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 12:00:29 PM
No one's saying he's good. He isn't losing us games. He's playing the way we need him to behind a terrible, injured offensive line. I don't think any QB in the league is doing a whole lot better in that situation yesterday.
I will reiterate, I haven’t seen anyone here arguing that he’s good. Just that he’s improving/playing better than year 1/year 2 Zach. It’s fine if you disagree but let’s not move the goalposts here.
Post by: Jumbo on October 30, 2023, 12:01:13 PM
The giants defense is not shitty.
Going into this game they were 23rd in PPG allowed and 22nd in YPG allowed. They're certainly not as elite as they looked yesterday.
Again, we're praising him for a game where we put up 10 points in regulation. He's playing better and incorporating more things into his game compared to last season, but he was so mind-numbingly awful last season that if that's your comparison point almost any QB could be praised.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 12:04:44 PM
Going into this game they were 10th in PPG allowed and 11th in YPG allowed. They're certainly not as elite as they looked yesterday.
Again, we're praising him for a game where we put up 10 points in regulation. He's playing better and incorporating more things into his game compared to last season, but he was so mind-numbingly awful last season that if that's your comparison point almost any QB could be praised.
So they’re roughly a top 10 defense? Ok that’s pretty good.
When you factor in that they’re putting up those numbers with arguably the worst offense in the NFL…
Giants D is 2nd in the league in EPA/play over the last 3 weeks
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 12:06:10 PM
Going into this game they were 23rd in PPG allowed and 22nd in YPG allowed. They're certainly not as elite as they looked yesterday.
Again, we're praising him for a game where we put up 10 points in regulation. He's playing better and incorporating more things into his game compared to last season, but he was so mind-numbingly awful last season that if that's your comparison point almost any QB could be praised.
“Didn’t play a bad game” doesn’t equal praise
Post by: Jumbo on October 30, 2023, 12:10:17 PM
So they’re roughly a top 10 defense? Ok that’s pretty good.
When you factor in that they’re putting up those numbers with arguably the worst offense in the NFL…
Giants D is 2nd in the league in EPA/play over the last 3 weeks
Wrote it the wrong way the first time around, they were bottom 11 in both metrics.
We scored 10 points. 3 of those in a 24-second miracle at the end that I'll give him credit for orchestrating. Other than that, I don't think a game where the team struggled to move the ball despite playing against a Giants offense that kept giving the ball back, as their QB completed zero (0) passes in 3 quarters of regulation, and we still punted 11 times, is not "not a bad game." It is a bad game. Everyone thinks it's not a bad game because our standards for Zach are based on him shitting his own pants on the field in 2022.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 12:12:32 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 12:20:00 PM
Still waiting for the OL and WRs to do their freaking job
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 12:20:39 PM
Which was worse yesterday, our run game or our pass game?
We love to talk about Zach, but the OL, run game, and WRs other than GW are freaking AWFUL. Why don’t those players/units get the same criticism as Zach?
It’s easier to blame everything on one person.
Our OLine is once again a patchwork and our other WRs are either well past their prime who happened to be great friends with the QB we traded for or untested rookies.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 12:39:16 PM
This was also the case before McGovern and Schweitzer went down, and it’s been the case prior to this game. Zach needs to figure out how to adjust pre-snap and Hackett needs to learn how to set him up better, but the those two injuries weren’t the sole source of this problem.
I agree with everything else, though.
It got much worse when McGovern got hurt. We saw absolutely zero checks at the line. McGovern makes the calls and when he went out, I'm not sure much of anything was changing up front pre-snap.
Zach is reading the backers and the secondary. We had no experienced out there seeing front/stunt switches.
It'd be interesting to go back and see how many times we did a hard count when he left the game. I don't recall seeing much of it. We also couldn't do a lot of motion because of the timing.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 12:40:29 PM
It got much worse when McGovern got hurt. We saw absolutely zero checks at the line. McGovern makes the calls and when he went out, I'm not sure much of anything was changing up front pre-snap.
Zach is reading the backers and the secondary. We had no experienced out there seeing front/stunt switches. It was a much bigger disaster when McGovern left the game.
It definitely got worse but it was always a problem.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 12:44:58 PM
Some of those throws under pressure were great
The throw he made to Garrett when NYG was flagged for DPI was such a great throw. He got lit up and still made a big time throw.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 12:59:58 PM
We need more talk about the dirty play fake yesterday.
https://x.com/nysportsdan/status/1719002691941040310?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I legit got deked by this in real time
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 01:07:18 PM
https://x.com/nysportsdan/status/1719002691941040310?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I legit got deked by this in real time
Thibs got played on that one.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 01:12:07 PM
https://x.com/nysportsdan/status/1719002691941040310?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I legit got deked by this in real time
beautiful
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 01:13:09 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 01:16:08 PM
#45 had no idea what was happening
You don’t know Jihad Ward?
EDIT: NVM, neither do I. That was Boogie Basham.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 01:28:25 PM
https://x.com/movethesticks/status/1719034197824938157?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkgBetter than what is the question. Better than the worst QB in the NFL last season? Agreed.
In general, he stinks and he stunk yesterday. He made a few plays at the end, but he was lucky to even have that opportunity, and he made very few plays before that.
I am just sick of making excuses for how bad he is. He hasn't played one good game start to finish in his career and it's year 3. He has had a few drives or quarters but that is about it.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 02:56:58 PM
Better than what is the question. Better than the worst QB in the NFL last season? Agreed.
In general, he stinks and he stunk yesterday. He made a few plays at the end, but he was lucky to even have that opportunity, and he made very few plays before that.
I am just sick of making excuses for how bad he is. He hasn't played one good game start to finish in his career and it's year 3. He has had a few drives or quarters but that is about it.
Better than your boy Justin Fields? Leave the QB eval to DJ
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 02:59:03 PM
Better than your boy Justin Fields? Leave the QB eval to DJIs he? They both suck.
I said before the draft I was indifferent towards Wilson and Fields and was happy with either. Turns out, both look bad.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 03:02:59 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 30, 2023, 03:31:10 PM
https://x.com/nysportsdan/status/1719002691941040310?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I legit got deked by this in real time
We should be doing this a lot more
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2023, 03:40:05 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 04:11:43 PM
We need more talk about the dirty play fake yesterday.
Seriously
That was Pennington-level. If he's got this ability (likely learned from big brother), why aren't we using it? FFS, we have Breece Hall in the backfield. This would kill defenses.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 04:13:16 PM
The throw he made to Garrett when NYG was flagged for DPI was such a great throw. He got lit up and still made a big time throw.
Yeah, but still
Also impressive was the throw that looked like he was just throwing it away and it was a sideline completion.
But Zach SUXXXXXXX
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 04:16:51 PM
Zach Wilson won this game.
Yes, the defense and special teams won this game, but Zach led this team downfield with no time and squeezed that spike in with fractions of a second left.
He's got a lot to clean up, but he's playing better all the time. With an OL made up of guys who moonlight as Uber drivers and a RBBC that consists of Breece Hall and...some other guys who run. And only one guy who doesn't drop balls thrown right at him.
He's not elite, but he's not the horseshit he's being made out to be here.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 04:17:49 PM
Yeah, but still
Also impressive was the throw that looked like he was just throwing it away and it was a sideline completion.
But Zach SUXXXXXXX
His biggest problem is consistency in his game, his second biggest problem is the consistency of his supporting cast. Our #2 WR dropped some key passes in that game that could have kept drives going and our offensive line left him running for his life.
I'm not a Zach Wilson fan by any stretch but this offense isn't exactly the most helpful. freak, Rodgers would easily be struggling with this unit.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 04:33:31 PM
Yeah, but stillWe need to have more than "he made 2 good throws at the end of the game" and "look at this cool play fake" and "wow, I thought he was throwing this pass away but it was a completion, omg."
Also impressive was the throw that looked like he was just throwing it away and it was a sideline completion.
But Zach SUXXXXXXX
He had a bad game. I don't know why that's so hard for people to admit. Last year, everyone hated him. He's playing marginally better than he did last year, and I hope he can keep getting better. He was one Giants 4th-and-1 conversion away from quarterbacking one of the most embarrassing losses in franchise history. Credit to Zach for making big plays down the stretch. But the lack of consistency has been an issue since he entered the NFL. It can't just be one drive a game where he looks like a good quarterback.
Every Zach statistic this season is among the worst in the NFL unless you cherrypick like crazy. Yes, he's faced good defenses. Yes, he's had a lot of moving parts up front. Yes, his receiving core isn't good outside Garrett. But Zach is a big part of the problem.
I want Zach to succeed, and there are aspects of his game that are encouraging. He's young, has a good arm, is athletic, and can make some flashy plays. But if he regresses back to how he played towards the end of last season, nobody should be surprised.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 04:34:07 PM
That was Pennington-level. If he's got this ability (likely learned from big brother), why aren't we using it? FFS, we have Breece Hall in the backfield. This would kill defenses.
The footwork he probably learned from Rodgers but he used to do some serious trickery at BYU.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 04:36:04 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 04:37:16 PM
He had a bad game. I don't know why that's so hard for people to admit.
No, he didn't. He played like a game manager and we won the game. Take away the four drops and he probably throws for 300 yards, in the rain, against a defense that has been very good lately.
You literally gave up on the game when he got sacked (trying to make a play when no one was open) and called him a cuck. You expect him to suck and you want him to be bad. It's OK to admit that too.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 04:37:42 PM
His biggest problem is consistency in his game, his second biggest problem is the consistency of his supporting cast. Our #2 WR dropped some key passes in that game that could have kept drives going and our offensive line left him running for his life.
I'm not a Zach Wilson fan by any stretch but this offense isn't exactly the most helpful. freak, Rodgers would easily be struggling with this unit.
Agreed, and I'm not a huge fan of Wilson either. He's got a ton of talent, but like you said, it's the consistency.
It's still crazy to me that he seems like a completely different QB in 2 minute drills. The only explanation I can come up with is that with less time, he has less opportunity to overthink. He's got to run the play called and he's got to throw to one of his first couple of reads. Why not make this a regular thing for him then?
Hell, the Buffalo Bills made Super Bowl runs thanks to executing a full-time hurry-up offense.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 04:41:02 PM
The footwork he probably learned from Rodgers but he used to do some serious trickery at BYU.
Wasn't aware of that.
Makes it all the more egregious that neither MLF nor Hackett has made it a standard part of the playbook.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2023, 04:42:36 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 04:46:57 PM
He had a bad game. I don't know why that's so hard for people to admit.
Because
Yes, he's faced good defenses. Yes, he's had a lot of moving parts up front. Yes, his receiving core isn't good outside Garrett.
He's playing against good defenses, with an offensive line that has changed every week both in roster and positions, a run game that is one back and a bunch of other guys nobody fears, tight ends who do little more than block, and only one receiver he can rely on to catch balls that they get both hands on.
But he isn't Tom Brady, so he sucks.
I didn't say he had a good game. I said he won it. And he did. 24 seconds. No problem.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 04:48:08 PM
Zach has 1 INT in his last 5 games. I'd have picked us winning the Super Bowl over that happening.
Minus some blindside hits, he'd have fewer fumbles too. He's making vastly better decisions this year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 04:56:45 PM
BecauseI don't want our quarterback to be Tom Brady.
He's playing against good defenses, with an offensive line that has changed every week both in roster and positions, a run game that is one back and a bunch of other guys nobody fears, tight ends who do little more than block, and only one receiver he can rely on to catch balls that they get both hands on.
But he isn't Tom Brady, so he sucks.
I didn't say he had a good game. I said he won it. And he did. 24 seconds. No problem.
I just want our quarterback to have more than 5 touchdown passes in 7 games and be treated objectively. It's okay to say he had a bad game when he completes less than 50% of his passes and plays poorly outside of one drive.
The Giants literally ran the ball the final 24 plays of the game of regulation because they had that much confidence that the Jets offense couldn't do anything. Zach was the quarterback of that offense. He takes a significant amount of that blame, just like any quarterback should. Plenty of blame to go around, but pretending like Zach wasn't a problem because he had a few good throws is delusional.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 05:05:51 PM
At least we snapped another losing streak, so that was cool.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 05:12:07 PM
You can do garbage OLine, you can do "only good WR", but you cannot do both while having a QB still develop. They need to fix something before the offense implodes like it did last year.That's why I hope that JD gets a receiver to help Zach. I don't want to give up a major draft pick for someone, but I don't think we need some great WR to provide an upgrade over what we're running out there. Sure, I'd love a starting offensive lineman, but I don't think those guys are available, and I want to keep our highest draft capital to benefit next year's team, unless they truly think Rodgers is coming back. And I'll believe that when I see it.
At least we snapped another losing streak, so that was cool.
Zach isn't good enough to succeed with a bad OL and 1 quality wide receiver. And we're one Breece/GW injury away from imploding again offensively. Help the kid out.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 06:31:18 PM
That's why I hope that JD gets a receiver to help Zach. I don't want to give up a major draft pick for someone, but I don't think we need some great WR to provide an upgrade over what we're running out there. Sure, I'd love a starting offensive lineman, but I don't think those guys are available, and I want to keep our highest draft capital to benefit next year's team, unless they truly think Rodgers is coming back. And I'll believe that when I see it.
Zach isn't good enough to succeed with a bad OL and 1 quality wide receiver. And we're one Breece/GW injury away from imploding again offensively. Help the kid out.
If they truly believe Rodgers is coming back they can finally give him something Green Bay never did and draft a skill player with that first round pick.
I joke about him not getting the starting job next season but if we gave up a first and a second for 4 snaps I'm not actually going to find it funny.
Post by: Jumbo on October 30, 2023, 06:33:39 PM
I don't want our quarterback to be Tom Brady.
I just want our quarterback to have more than 5 touchdown passes in 7 games and be treated objectively. It's okay to say he had a bad game when he completes less than 50% of his passes and plays poorly outside of one drive.
The Giants literally ran the ball the final 24 plays of the game of regulation because they had that much confidence that the Jets offense couldn't do anything. Zach was the quarterback of that offense. He takes a significant amount of that blame, just like any quarterback should. Plenty of blame to go around, but pretending like Zach wasn't a problem because he had a few good throws is delusional.
There is some sort of collective delusion here about Zach, who in year 3 has 9 turnovers to 5 total TD this season, actually being not bad because we're winning games. Kind of reminds me of last year where everyone thought Zach was doing alright because we were managing to win games at the beginning of the year, although there's at least a bit more basis for it this year. But not that much more basis.
That said, I've changed my mind from trading for a QB being prudent to trading for a WR of some sort being much more prudent. We can't keep running this WR corps out there, and WR should be much more easily acquired than OL. And anyone who comes in at QB at this point won't be talented/around long enough to be a substantial upgrade at cost.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 06:35:11 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2023, 06:44:46 PM
If they truly believe Rodgers is coming back they can finally give him something Green Bay never did and draft a skill player with that first round pick.
I joke about him not getting the starting job next season but if we gave up a first and a second for 4 snaps I'm not actually going to find it funny.
We didn't, as soon as he went down the first became a second. So it's two seconds, if that makes things a bit better.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2023, 06:45:17 PM
Maybe don't let the QB try and play GM.
You know we're trading for David Bakhtiari's busted derriere this spring.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2023, 06:48:53 PM
The Giants had confidence Zach couldn't do anything because he had wet toilet paper stopping their DL, not because Zach Wilson is bad.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 07:08:36 PM
There is some sort of collective delusion here about Zach, who in year 3 has 9 turnovers to 5 total TD this season, actually being not bad because we're winning games. Kind of reminds me of last year where everyone thought Zach was doing alright because we were managing to win games at the beginning of the year, although there's at least a bit more basis for it this year. But not that much more basis.Totally agree.
That said, I've changed my mind from trading for a QB being prudent to trading for a WR of some sort being much more prudent. We can't keep running this WR corps out there, and WR should be much more easily acquired than OL. And anyone who comes in at QB at this point won't be talented/around long enough to be a substantial upgrade at cost.
Some of the Zach hatred seems personal so I think some Jets fans go out of their way to defend him.
In reality, he's probably the 35th best QB in the NFL. Just don't be the 80th best QB and we can survive that a lot of games.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 07:09:25 PM
You know we're trading for David Bakhtiari's busted derriere this spring.
Rodgers' spine is going to snap like his Achilles' tendon.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 07:42:12 PM
We didn't, as soon as he went down the first became a second. So it's two seconds, if that makes things a bit better.I lost track of how many first round picks we had going into the 23 draft and forgot that the first rounder was a swap.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 08:45:27 PM
I don't want our quarterback to be Tom Brady.
I just want our quarterback to have more than 5 touchdown passes in 7 games and be treated objectively. It's okay to say he had a bad game when he completes less than 50% of his passes and plays poorly outside of one drive.
The Giants literally ran the ball the final 24 plays of the game of regulation because they had that much confidence that the Jets offense couldn't do anything. Zach was the quarterback of that offense. He takes a significant amount of that blame, just like any quarterback should. Plenty of blame to go around, but pretending like Zach wasn't a problem because he had a few good throws is delusional.
It's also delusional to ignore that
- It was pouring
- An already bad OL was down two centers and Zach has no time to set his feet before getting hit
- No one except Garrett inspires any confidence that they can catch passes that hit both hands
- Our backs, apart from Breece can't run and/or they can't catch
- Our TEs are glorified blockers
There were multiple drops that would've been first downs. If those catches are made, it's a completely different story about Zach and we probably score more before the end of regulation.
Zach wasn't great, but he played above a laundry list of negatives stacked against him. And won.
Totally agree.
Some of the Zach hatred seems personal so I think some Jets fans go out of their way to defend him.
In reality, he's probably the 35th best QB in the NFL. Just don't be the 80th best QB and we can survive that a lot of games.
By what metric? You're big on quoting stats, which stat is he 35th best?
Now maybe you were being sarcastic, in which case, okay.
FTR, I don't go out of my way to defend Zach. I was calling for a Cousins or Tannehill trade for weeks. But he shows a little more each week, and he overcame a ridiculously badly stacked deck to win this week.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 09:45:47 PM
By what metric? You're big on quoting stats, which stat is he 35th best?Why do you think I was being sarcastic? Why is it sarcastic to think he's the 35th best QB in the NFL? Have you watched him play? He was benched for Mike White and Chris Streveler last season. Do you think he's the 3rd-best backup QB in the NFL?
Now maybe you were being sarcastic, in which case, okay.
FTR, I don't go out of my way to defend Zach. I was calling for a Cousins or Tannehill trade for weeks. But he shows a little more each week, and he overcame a ridiculously badly stacked deck to win this week.
But to answer your question...basically every metric.
Not too many quarterbacks have a large sample this season, but out of 38 quarterbacks with 50 pass attempts, he ranks...
- 36th in completion percentage
- 32nd in yards per attempt
- 34th in yards per dropback
- 33rd in QBR
- 33rd in touchdown percentage
That's out of 38 quarterbacks. There are probably a few more who haven't played that could do better than him. For example, Mike White has barely played this season but was better than Zach when healthy last year.
If we look at the last 2 seasons, and use a qualifier of 150 pass attempts, there are 48 quarterbacks. He ranks:
- 46th in completion percentage
- 36th in yards per attempt
- 42nd in yards per dropback
- 42nd in QBR
- 42nd in TD percentage
If you want to say he's a lot better this year, sure, I see some signs of improvement, too. But his numbers are strikingly similar to last year - when he got benched for being horrendous.
- Last year: 55% comp, 7.0 YPA, 188 YPG, 6 TD, 7 Int, 73 passer rating, 39 QBR
- This year: 58% comp, 6.1 YPA, 191 YPG, 5 TD, 5 Int, 74 passer rating, 37 QBR
I am not trying to excrement on the guy. I genuinely want him to succeed. There are times you watch him play and he's legitimately impressive. But it's not nearly often enough. Every statistic says the guy is trash. There is certainly context involved which doesn't help him, especially in that Giants game. But we scored 10 points in regulation, Zach completed less than 50% of his passes, and if the Giants converted on a 4th-and-1 at the end of the game (or didn't jump offsides late), things would be a lot different. Credit to Zach for making 2 plays at the end of regulation, and underthrowing Malik Taylor so badly that the CB interfered with him (I know he was pressured).
I don't understand why we need to pretend Zach is better than he is. He's a decent backup at this point. He's 24 years old, and he has good physical tools, so maybe he develops into more. I wanted to keep him around because I think that with Rodgers around, maybe we can unlock more of him down the road. But he's started 28 games at this point. It's not a small sample size.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 11:11:53 PM
If they truly believe Rodgers is coming back they can finally give him something Green Bay never did and draft a skill player with that first round pick.
I joke about him not getting the starting job next season but if we gave up a first and a second for 4 snaps I'm not actually going to find it funny.
FTR Gords are skill players
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 11:25:45 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/fHz0xdj/IMG-2032.png) (https://ibb.co/dDwK548)
Zach suxx, I am Smart
#numbers
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 11:26:25 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 11:33:53 PM
DAL: Breece Hall - 4 carries for 9 yards; RBs total 10 for 24 yards
NE: Breece Hall - 12 carries for 18 yards; RBs total 21 for 37 yards
NYG: Breece Hall - 12 carries for 17 yards; RBs total 16 for 24 yards
Why would Zach do this?
Post by: Jumbo on October 31, 2023, 12:04:41 AM
He sucks. The team is good enough to overcome it, so far, but he is bad.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on October 31, 2023, 07:03:06 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 31, 2023, 07:09:30 AM
He will be a career backup. Which is what he is now with us. We will need to look for a starting QB in a couple of years.Probably sooner unless Zach starts balling out with some line protection.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 08:07:54 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 08:15:35 AM
Not too many quarterbacks have a large sample this season, but out of 38 quarterbacks with 50 pass attempts, he ranks...
- 36th in completion percentage
- 32nd in yards per attempt
- 34th in yards per dropback
- 33rd in QBR
- 33rd in touchdown percentage
If we look at the last 2 seasons, and use a qualifier of 150 pass attempts, there are 48 quarterbacks. He ranks:
- 46th in completion percentage
- 36th in yards per attempt
- 42nd in yards per dropback
- 42nd in QBR
- 42nd in TD percentage
You freely use qualifiers when it makes your point, but ignore circumstances that contribute to the whole picture.
No one here, not a single person that I've noticed, has said Zach's playing well. There's lots of room for improvement. But Zach has performed better every week, and seems to learn a little more every game.
And he's doing it with a bottom of the league offensive line--before the devastating injuries. He's doing it despite his #2 receiver dropping multiple passes that hit him in both hands. He's doing it despite having only one RB that can do anything in either facet of the offense. Despite having TEs that do near-nothing in the passing game.
We all cried last year that if he'd just been a game manager, this team would've been in the playoffs. He's being a game manager now and ugly or not, this team is winning games.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 08:16:05 AM
Zach suxx, I am Smart
#numbers
Zach makes receivers drop the ball and just by existing causes our tackles to whiff on opposing defenses best players. It's science.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 08:34:47 AM
He has 5 INTs so far but that also puts him behind guys like Tua (7), Stafford (7), Mahomes (8), Jalen Hurts (8), and Josh Allen (8). Three of those picks were awful throws that came clustered in the game against Dallas when he was trying to do everything himself all while running away from Micah Parsons like he was the victim in a fast zombie movie. They were terrible throws where he should have either taken the sack, thrown it out of bounds, or ran for it but neither of those choices would have won the game for us anyway and the offense overall had no answer for Dallas' defense so that one was a wash from jump. One was a great play by Patrick Surtain II that would have hit the turf for 99% of the remaining CBs in the league.
His fumbles are more concerning. The botched handoff with McGovern cost us the game against KC and the one with Newman almost cost us the game against the Giants (credit to Brant Boyer for WMD leap, I guess I finally found out what he does here), but being on your third string center is going to do that. He also puts the ball on the ground when he gets hit from behind. Ideally the fix here would be OTs that don't let him get hit from behind but we're not there yet.
As of right now we're getting excrement value out of a 2nd overall pick who is proving to be no better than a standard backup but he's doing the job a standard backup should be doing behind an OLine that's on it's 3rd string center, it's 4th string OT, and who knows what at this point with the guard position, one phenomenal WR in Garrett Wilson, a couple of washed veterans, and untested rookies, the latter 4 of which have people avoiding talking about their hands when bringing up their best attributes, two meh and overpaid starting TEs, a 2nd year TE who could be something but good luck finding the reps for him, and a backfield that's a copy and paste description of the WR corps minus the rookie because ours is constantly the odd man out on the roster. He's played better in week 8 than he did in week 1. He's not playing like a legit starter but he's still improving into a solid backup QB.
As of right now the franchise QB isn't on the roster. Zach Wilson has the tangible skills you want to see in one but if we're hoping we can develop him into that guy then we have to accept the fact that the FO didn't put the team that could do that on the roster with him. A lot of these issues are due to his immaturity but an equal amount of blame can be placed on the environment around him. JD has thrown a lot of snowballs at the wall in an effort to build the offense but most of them have not stuck.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 08:44:33 AM
You freely use qualifiers when it makes your point, but ignore circumstances that contribute to the whole picture.You made it seem like it was insane to think he was the 35th-best quarterback, when using literally any statistic shows he's probably that (or worse). You say "show me the stats" then you say "nah, I don't like the stats."
No one here, not a single person that I've noticed, has said Zach's playing well. There's lots of room for improvement. But Zach has performed better every week, and seems to learn a little more every game.
And he's doing it with a bottom of the league offensive line--before the devastating injuries. He's doing it despite his #2 receiver dropping multiple passes that hit him in both hands. He's doing it despite having only one RB that can do anything in either facet of the offense. Despite having TEs that do near-nothing in the passing game.
We all cried last year that if he'd just been a game manager, this team would've been in the playoffs. He's being a game manager now and ugly or not, this team is winning games.
You act like the Jets are the only team with OL and WR problems. There are plenty of teams out there that would kill to have Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall on offense. He's playing a lot like he did at the beginning of last year, when he still wasn't good, but the Jets won games because he wasn't a disaster. Can he do this all season? Who knows.
Yes, Zach is under pressure a lot. But he's literally one of the worst quarterbacks in NFL history when he is under pressure. No quarterback is good under pressure, but some QBs mitigate disaster better than others. Zach does not do that.
We are winning games because we have an elite defense, Breece Hall and Garrett Wilson are breaking long touchdowns occasionally, and the QB isn't totally freaking things up. That can work for us, and I hope it keeps working for this. It worked for us last year until Zach went from being below average to unplayable.
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2023, 08:57:01 AM
As for right now he looks like the backup that he is.
He has 5 INTs so far but that also puts him behind guys like Tua (7), Stafford (7), Mahomes (8), Jalen Hurts (8), and Josh Allen (8). Three of those picks were awful throws that came clustered in the game against Dallas when he was trying to do everything himself all while running away from Micah Parsons like he was the victim in a fast zombie movie. They were terrible throws where he should have either taken the sack, thrown it out of bounds, or ran for it but neither of those choices would have won the game for us anyway and the offense overall had no answer for Dallas' defense so that one was a wash from jump. One was a great play by Patrick Surtain II that would have hit the turf for 99% of the remaining CBs in the league.
His fumbles are more concerning. The botched handoff with McGovern cost us the game against KC and the one with Newman almost cost us the game against the Giants (credit to Brant Boyer for WMD leap, I guess I finally found out what he does here), but being on your third string center is going to do that. He also puts the ball on the ground when he gets hit from behind. Ideally the fix here would be OTs that don't let him get hit from behind but we're not there yet.
As of right now we're getting excrement value out of a 2nd overall pick who is proving to be no better than a standard backup but he's doing the job a standard backup should be doing behind an OLine that's on it's 3rd string center, it's 4th string OT, and who knows what at this point with the guard position, one phenomenal WR in Garrett Wilson, a couple of washed veterans, and untested rookies, the latter 4 of which have people avoiding talking about their hands when bringing up their best attributes, two meh and overpaid starting TEs, a 2nd year TE who could be something but good luck finding the reps for him, and a backfield that's a copy and paste description of the WR corps minus the rookie because ours is constantly the odd man out on the roster. He's played better in week 8 than he did in week 1. He's not playing like a legit starter but he's still improving into a solid backup QB.
As of right now the franchise QB isn't on the roster. Zach Wilson has the tangible skills you want to see in one but if we're hoping we can develop him into that guy then we have to accept the fact that the FO didn't put the team that could do that on the roster with him. A lot of these issues are due to his immaturity but an equal amount of blame can be placed on the environment around him. JD has thrown a lot of snowballs at the wall in an effort to build the offense but most of them have not stuck.
As of right now....TL:DR
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 08:57:54 AM
As of right now....TL:DR
K
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 09:01:12 AM
As for right now he looks like the backup that he is.I think this is fair. But if we're going to point out 5 interceptions, we also need to point out 5 touchdowns. Yes, he has fewer picks than those guys you mentioned, but those guys you mentioned have also made a ton of plays for their teams. Zach has 1-2 good drives a game, and the rest of the game, he is pretty crappy.
He has 5 INTs so far but that also puts him behind guys like Tua (7), Stafford (7), Mahomes (8), Jalen Hurts (8), and Josh Allen (8). Three of those picks were awful throws that came clustered in the game against Dallas when he was trying to do everything himself all while running away from Micah Parsons like he was the victim in a fast zombie movie. They were terrible throws where he should have either taken the sack, thrown it out of bounds, or ran for it but neither of those choices would have won the game for us anyway and the offense overall had no answer for Dallas' defense so that one was a wash from jump. One was a great play by Patrick Surtain II that would have hit the turf for 99% of the remaining CBs in the league.
His fumbles are more concerning. The botched handoff with McGovern cost us the game against KC and the one with Newman almost cost us the game against the Giants (credit to Brant Boyer for WMD leap, I guess I finally found out what he does here), but being on your third string center is going to do that. He also puts the ball on the ground when he gets hit from behind. Ideally the fix here would be OTs that don't let him get hit from behind but we're not there yet.
As of right now we're getting excrement value out of a 2nd overall pick who is proving to be no better than a standard backup but he's doing the job a standard backup should be doing behind an OLine that's on it's 3rd string center, it's 4th string OT, and who knows what at this point with the guard position, one phenomenal WR in Garrett Wilson, a couple of washed veterans, and untested rookies, the latter 4 of which have people avoiding talking about their hands when bringing up their best attributes, two meh and overpaid starting TEs, a 2nd year TE who could be something but good luck finding the reps for him, and a backfield that's a copy and paste description of the WR corps minus the rookie because ours is constantly the odd man out on the roster. He's played better in week 8 than he did in week 1. He's not playing like a legit starter but he's still improving into a solid backup QB.
As of right now the franchise QB isn't on the roster. Zach Wilson has the tangible skills you want to see in one but if we're hoping we can develop him into that guy then we have to accept the fact that the FO didn't put the team that could do that on the roster with him. A lot of these issues are due to his immaturity but an equal amount of blame can be placed on the environment around him. JD has thrown a lot of snowballs at the wall in an effort to build the offense but most of them have not stuck.
If the Jets can somehow figure out a way for him to turn those 1-2 good drives a game into 5-6 good drives a game, then we can have something cooking. He's 24, so you hope he can keep improving.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 09:08:53 AM
I think this is fair. But if we're going to point out 5 interceptions, we also need to point out 5 touchdowns. Yes, he has fewer picks than those guys you mentioned, but those guys you mentioned have also made a ton of plays for their teams. Zach has 1-2 good drives a game, and the rest of the game, he is pretty crappy.
If the Jets can somehow figure out a way for him to turn those 1-2 good drives a game into 5-6 good drives a game, then we can have something cooking. He's 24, so you hope he can keep improving.
With the amount of times we stall out in the redzone I'm still trying to figure out how much of it is on Zach's shoulders and how much of it is Hackett because it's definitely not one or the other. Zach has taken some dumbass sacks in that scenario, and we've had some dumbass play calls in that scenario where we go run-run-pass with third down being further away from the endzone than 1st down.
A better QB would probably put us better situations before the redzone series or in them but once again I don't think the right offense to make him a better QB is on the roster and Hackett is included in that. The QB and OC both do some dumb excrement right when we get a chance to score.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 09:22:03 AM
He sucks. The team is good enough to overcome it, so far, but he is bad.
The defense is good.
Our offense has 2 elite players in Breece and GW, but that doesn’t matter when you have the 31st ranked OL for pass protection and the highest drop rate in the league.
The offense as a unit is not good. Of course Zach should get his fair share of the blame, but are we trying to argue that he wouldn’t be playing better if the OL, pass catchers, and running backs weren’t putting up worst in the league type production
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2023, 09:23:22 AM
K
As of right now....................K
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 09:25:30 AM
-Lazard and Cobb have been freaking garbage
-Our OL has been freaking garbage outside of flashes from Becton (and some great play from AVT when he was here but that doesn’t matter now)
-Our TEs haven’t done anything
-Cook and Carter have been freaking garbage
Zach Wilson has arguably played the 3rd best out of all the offensive players on the roster.
Zach Wilson isn’t a good enough QB yet to have that happen and be overly successful.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 09:26:56 AM
As for right now he looks like the backup that he is.
He has 5 INTs so far but that also puts him behind guys like Tua (7), Stafford (7), Mahomes (8), Jalen Hurts (8), and Josh Allen (8). Three of those picks were awful throws that came clustered in the game against Dallas when he was trying to do everything himself all while running away from Micah Parsons like he was the victim in a fast zombie movie. They were terrible throws where he should have either taken the sack, thrown it out of bounds, or ran for it but neither of those choices would have won the game for us anyway and the offense overall had no answer for Dallas' defense so that one was a wash from jump. One was a great play by Patrick Surtain II that would have hit the turf for 99% of the remaining CBs in the league.
His fumbles are more concerning. The botched handoff with McGovern cost us the game against KC and the one with Newman almost cost us the game against the Giants (credit to Brant Boyer for WMD leap, I guess I finally found out what he does here), but being on your third string center is going to do that. He also puts the ball on the ground when he gets hit from behind. Ideally the fix here would be OTs that don't let him get hit from behind but we're not there yet.
As of right now we're getting excrement value out of a 2nd overall pick who is proving to be no better than a standard backup but he's doing the job a standard backup should be doing behind an OLine that's on it's 3rd string center, it's 4th string OT, and who knows what at this point with the guard position, one phenomenal WR in Garrett Wilson, a couple of washed veterans, and untested rookies, the latter 4 of which have people avoiding talking about their hands when bringing up their best attributes, two meh and overpaid starting TEs, a 2nd year TE who could be something but good luck finding the reps for him, and a backfield that's a copy and paste description of the WR corps minus the rookie because ours is constantly the odd man out on the roster. He's played better in week 8 than he did in week 1. He's not playing like a legit starter but he's still improving into a solid backup QB.
As of right now the franchise QB isn't on the roster. Zach Wilson has the tangible skills you want to see in one but if we're hoping we can develop him into that guy then we have to accept the fact that the FO didn't put the team that could do that on the roster with him. A lot of these issues are due to his immaturity but an equal amount of blame can be placed on the environment around him. JD has thrown a lot of snowballs at the wall in an effort to build the offense but most of them have not stuck.
We’re not doing the strawman here, not a single person has come close to arguing that Zach is our franchise QB
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 09:37:17 AM
You made it seem like it was insane to think he was the 35th-best quarterback, when using literally any statistic shows he's probably that (or worse). You say "show me the stats" then you say "nah, I don't like the stats."
You act like the Jets are the only team with OL and WR problems. There are plenty of teams out there that would kill to have Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall on offense. He's playing a lot like he did at the beginning of last year, when he still wasn't good, but the Jets won games because he wasn't a disaster. Can he do this all season? Who knows.
Yes, Zach is under pressure a lot. But he's literally one of the worst quarterbacks in NFL history when he is under pressure. No quarterback is good under pressure, but some QBs mitigate disaster better than others. Zach does not do that.
We are winning games because we have an elite defense, Breece Hall and Garrett Wilson are breaking long touchdowns occasionally, and the QB isn't totally freaking things up. That can work for us, and I hope it keeps working for this. It worked for us last year until Zach went from being below average to unplayable.
I didn't say I didn't like the stats. But you went and spread it out over two years, when literally everyone has been saying "this year he looks better" and you're completely ignoring that he's playing in utterly atrocious conditions.
I don't have the desire to put a lot of work into it, but a quick ol' google pops out that Tom Brady's QBR dropped 75 points under pressure. Seventy-five. HoF QB Tom Brady couldn't mitigate disaster under pressure.
Zach is under duress on every passing down, which is largely because we're always playing from behind. Yes, there are things he could do to be better (tuck and run, throw it away more often, hit a checkdown) but the offensive line, receivers who drop good throws, and poor playcalling do little to help him.
Again, Zach isn't going to be Mahomes and no one here expects him to be. But getting better every week and being a game manager who can turn it on late when given an opportunity is a formula that can win games with this team's defense.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 09:50:40 AM
The Jets pass catchers have a 10.3% drop rate, 1st in the league
So half of Zach’s dropbacks he gets pressured, and 1 out of every 10 passes he throws gets dropped. Doesn’t really leave much margin for error.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 09:51:33 AM
I didn't say I didn't like the stats. But you went and spread it out over two years, when literally everyone has been saying "this year he looks better" and you're completely ignoring that he's playing in utterly atrocious conditions.
I don't have the desire to put a lot of work into it, but a quick ol' google pops out that Tom Brady's QBR dropped 75 points under pressure. Seventy-five. HoF QB Tom Brady couldn't mitigate disaster under pressure.
Zach is under duress on every passing down, which is largely because we're always playing from behind. Yes, there are things he could do to be better (tuck and run, throw it away more often, hit a checkdown) but the offensive line, receivers who drop good throws, and poor playcalling do little to help him.
Again, Zach isn't going to be Mahomes and no one here expects him to be. But getting better every week and being a game manager who can turn it on late when given an opportunity is a formula that can win games with this team's defense.
Zach has outplayed Mahomes head to head already this year tho
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2023, 09:54:11 AM
The Jets are allowing a 49% pressure rate in pure passing situations, tied for 1st in the league.
The Jets pass catchers have a 10.3% drop percentage, 1st in the league
So half of Zach’s dropbacks he gets pressured, and 1 out of every 10 passes he throws gets dropped. Doesn’t really leave much margin for error.
(https://i.imgur.com/mRbfBgl.png)
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 09:59:43 AM
We’re not doing the strawman here, not a single person has come close to arguing that Zach is our franchise QB
You need to go ahead and forget the word strawman because all I was doing was pointing out the status of the QB room.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:09:54 AM
You need to go ahead and forget the word strawman because all I was doing was pointing out the status of the QB room.
Our coaching staff and front office viewed him as a backup QB going into this year.
I would say 99.9% of our fanbase was ready to move on.
Rodgers getting hurt massively shifted some people’s expectations, which is typical reactionary Jets fans behavior.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:10:58 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 10:12:20 AM
I didn't say I didn't like the stats. But you went and spread it out over two years, when literally everyone has been saying "this year he looks better" and you're completely ignoring that he's playing in utterly atrocious conditions.I gave you both stats, including this year, and showed you his stats are basically the same as last year, but whatever.
I don't have the desire to put a lot of work into it, but a quick ol' google pops out that Tom Brady's QBR dropped 75 points under pressure. Seventy-five. HoF QB Tom Brady couldn't mitigate disaster under pressure.
Zach is under duress on every passing down, which is largely because we're always playing from behind. Yes, there are things he could do to be better (tuck and run, throw it away more often, hit a checkdown) but the offensive line, receivers who drop good throws, and poor playcalling do little to help him.
Again, Zach isn't going to be Mahomes and no one here expects him to be. But getting better every week and being a game manager who can turn it on late when given an opportunity is a formula that can win games with this team's defense.
The one area where he has improved is when he's under pressure. The previous 2 years, he was basically the worst QB in recorded NFL history under pressure. He's still bad compared to the NFL averages, but he's no longer the worst by far.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 10:12:47 AM
Our coaching staff and front office viewed him as a backup QB going into this year.
I would say 99.9% of our fanbase was ready to move on.
Rodgers getting hurt massively shifted some people’s expectations, which is typical reactionary Jets fans behavior.
So are you saying people DO think he's a franchise QB?
Also, you can’t say that Tim Boyle isn’t the franchise QB yet
Stop smoking.
Post by: ons on October 31, 2023, 10:15:30 AM
Totally agree.
Some of the Zach hatred seems personal so I think some Jets fans go out of their way to defend him.
In reality, he's probably the 35th best QB in the NFL. Just don't be the 80th best QB and we can survive that a lot of games.
For the record, thought this was an interesting placement for Zach in QB rankings league-wide from an outside perspective:
https://twitter.com/kurtbenkert/status/1719190586727538734?s=46&t=XDuiaKuASTXPojqLAti_EA
I don't really think the list is accurate (but also haven't watched a lot of non-Jet games this year) but there isn't a ton of great QB play throughout the league this year.
The offense is just barely surviving with Zach as QB on the back of an elite defense. I really think we need another weapon on offense, unbelievable how much more dynamic some other team's skill positions look compared to us. Also hard to evaluate with an O-line as battered as ours is right now. I like the mental resiliency Zach is showing this year, he's making tough plays in crucial situations and is showing a lot of growth compared to last year. It'd be a good trajectory if he was a developmental third round pick forced to start way too early, which is kind of how I have to think of him in order for me not to be deeply frustrated.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:15:52 AM
Stop smoking.
(https://i.ibb.co/7rKKGQG/IMG-2037.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qmppRCR)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:18:25 AM
So are you saying people DO think he's a franchise QB?
Maybe not “a” franchise QB, but Jets franchise QB isn’t exactly big shoes to fill
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:18:54 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 10:19:11 AM
The Jets are allowing a 49% pressure rate in pure passing situations, tied for 1st in the league.
The Jets pass catchers have a 10.3% drop rate, 1st in the league
So half of Zach’s dropbacks he gets pressured, and 1 out of every 10 passes he throws gets dropped. Doesn’t really leave much margin for error.
So 51% of the time he's got an 89.7% chance a receiver will catch the ball. That's like a QBx-fi rating of eleventyseven. Why isn't his bust already in Canton?!
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 10:19:29 AM
The Jets are allowing a 49% pressure rate in pure passing situations, tied for 1st in the league.
The Jets pass catchers have a 10.3% drop rate, 1st in the league
So half of Zach’s dropbacks he gets pressured, and 1 out of every 10 passes he throws gets dropped. Doesn’t really leave much margin for error.
This is fair.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:23:05 AM
I gave you both stats, including this year, and showed you his stats are basically the same as last year, but whatever.
The one area where he has improved is when he's under pressure. The previous 2 years, he was basically the worst QB in recorded NFL history under pressure. He's still bad compared to the NFL averages, but he's no longer the worst by far.
Zach isn’t good under pressure, we don’t have a OL that can stop pressure, only 1 WR is ever open when we get pressured. When Breece has a 12 for 17 game our offense is cooked.
The gameplan to stop us is easy and Hackett hasn’t been able to scheme us out of it. Not sure he can
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 10:23:17 AM
The WRs besides GW is mostly bad.
Zach is mostly bad.
These things can all be true at the same time. But Zach is a backup QB and most backup QBs are bad.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 31, 2023, 10:23:24 AM
So 51% of the time he's got an 89.7% chance a receiver will catch the ball. That's like a QBx-fi rating of eleventyseven. Why isn't his bust already in Canton?!
That’s depressing
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 10:25:31 AM
Zach isn’t good under pressure, we don’t have a OL that can stop pressure, only 1 WR is ever open when we get pressured. When Breece has a 12 for 17 game our offense is cooked.Hard to scheme your way out of things often when the personnel is mostly bad.
The gameplan to stop us is easy and Hackett hasn’t been able to scheme us out of it. Not sure he can
Right now our offense is basically praying Breece breaks open a 50-yard play. It's truly unbelievable how many big plays Breece has been able to create at RB this season given the state of the rest of our offense. He's probably the best RB in the league outside of CMC.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:27:23 AM
The OL is mostly bad.
The WRs besides GW is mostly bad.
Zach is mostly bad.
These things can all be true at the same time. But Zach is a backup QB and most backup QBs are bad.
Rank the players on our offensive unit. If Zach is a backup, then he’s also playing with a whole unit of backups
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2023, 10:33:41 AM
Plan Z(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231031/bdcd4f533196f9447820c8c2d24d99e4.gif)
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 10:41:22 AM
Rank the players on our offensive unit. If Zach is a backup, then he’s also playing with a whole unit of backupsBreece
Garrett
(AVT)
Becton
Conklin
(Tippmann)
Laken
I have no idea after those guys. Could go Zach next. Could go Lazard next. Could go McGovern next. Could go Ruckert next. Not throwing Rodgers on the list because he didn't play enough.
And I agree. The offensive personnel is bad. That's why we almost lost to a team that literally didn't play a QB for 3 quarters.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 31, 2023, 10:49:24 AM
Morstead
Legatron
Hennessy
Breece
Garrett
(AVT)
Becton
Conklin
(Tippmann)
Laken
FYP
Post by: dcm1602 on October 31, 2023, 10:50:41 AM
The defense is good.
Our offense has 2 elite players in Breece and GW, but that doesn’t matter when you have the 31st ranked OL for pass protection and the highest drop rate in the league.
The offense as a unit is not good. Of course Zach should get his fair share of the blame, but are we trying to argue that he wouldn’t be playing better if the OL, pass catchers, and running backs weren’t putting up worst in the league type production
Breece is one of the best players on the offense
But is he really elite yet?
The bulk of his production this year has been in 2 games this year
Our OL stinks, and defenses can ignore our passing game. But I think we need a little more consistency to call him elite
After all he's had more games this year than not where his YPC was atrocious
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2023, 11:06:07 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 11:06:54 AM
Breece is one of the best players on the offenseBreece leads the NFL averaging 5.7 yards per carry behind an offensive line that is not good. Yes, he's elite.
But is he really elite yet?
The bulk of his production this year has been in 2 games this year
Our OL stinks, and defenses can ignore our passing game. But I think we need a little more consistency to call him elite
After all he's had more games this year than not where his YPC was atrocious
He has 4 touches of at least 40 yards, tied for most among running backs.
The guy is a stud. He's not doing this in some elite offense where the pressure is taken off of him. He's doing it on this offense.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 11:14:02 AM
Zach’s 3 worst games:
DAL: Breece Hall - 4 carries for 9 yards; RBs total 10 for 24 yards
NE: Breece Hall - 12 carries for 18 yards; RBs total 21 for 37 yards
NYG: Breece Hall - 12 carries for 17 yards; RBs total 16 for 24 yards
Why would Zach do this?
Yes, Breece is elite, but when he doesn’t have a good game, the offense stinks, and the discourse doesn’t go beyond Zach suxx.
FTR, I put almost all of the blame here in particular on our OL
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 11:18:06 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on October 31, 2023, 11:19:17 AM
Our coaching staff and front office viewed him as a backup QB going into this year.
I would say 99.9% of our fanbase was ready to move on.
Rodgers getting hurt massively shifted some people’s expectations, which is typical reactionary Jets fans behavior.
I just want him to be competent for say 30 minutes of a game versus 30 seconds. Honestly is that SOJF?
Yeah they haven't established the run,have protection issues, play calling etc
Etc
That said some of thos issues can be directly attributable to Zach. I don't think it's an unreasonable position to just want your QB not to be the worst starting QB in the NFL and maybe we have ever seen.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2023, 11:36:33 AM
I don't think it's an unreasonable position to just want your QB not to be the worst starting QB in the NFL and maybe we have ever seen.
It's certainly unreasonable to think that he's the worst QB in the NFL this season
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 11:40:09 AM
https://x.com/quincyenunwa/status/1719376259342324057?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
The replies are predictable.
"But he was a #2 pick not a backup!"
"Why do we have to put up with it?"
"He stinks and you're stupid!"
Enunwa's literally asking people to accept that there can be nuance, but nah. It's either you're Joe Namath or Christian Hackenberg.
Also, I'm really tired of the whole "first-round pick" thing. How many QBs have been picked in the first round throughout the history of the draft? And how many of them went on to have a 10+ year career? It sucks, sure, but draft position is no guarantee of success.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 31, 2023, 11:44:10 AM
It's certainly unreasonable to think that he's the worst QB in the NFL this season
No really it isn't.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 11:45:02 AM
It's certainly unreasonable to think that he's the worst QB in the NFL this season
Mike White is 2 for 3 with one TD and one INT.
He scores on 50% of his completions, and 33% of his dropbacks. #elite
Post by: Miamipuck on October 31, 2023, 11:46:33 AM
The replies are predictable.
"But he was a #2 pick not a backup!"
"Why do we have to put up with it?"
"He stinks and you're stupid!"
Enunwa's literally asking people to accept that there can be nuance, but nah. It's either you're Joe Namath or Christian Hackenberg.
Also, I'm really tired of the whole "first-round pick" thing. How many QBs have been picked in the first round throughout the history of the draft? And how many of them went on to have a 10+ year career? It sucks, sure, but draft position is no guarantee of success.
Yeah that's it you cracked the code, the people that think he stinks are unreasonable and want to be right.
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2023, 11:47:24 AM
Comp: 56.6% / 56.0%
TD-INT: 86-89 / 20-23
Passer rating 73.2 / 71.8
These are the career stats of Zach Wilson, and a guy who went to successive AFCCGs while beating some of the best QBs in history with a massively superior offensive line and receiving corps to anything that Zach has ever had.
No one is arguing that Zach is the next Rodgers, but there's no reason he isn't the next Sanchez.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2023, 11:50:31 AM
No one is arguing that Zach is the next Rodgers, but there's no reason he isn't the next Sanchez.
No, he's worse than Tommy DeVito.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 31, 2023, 11:52:43 AM
Mike White is 2 for 3 with one TD and one INT.
He scores on 50% of his completions, and 33% of his dropbacks. #elite
Are you a gymnast because that is stellar contortions to make a ridiculous point.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 31, 2023, 11:54:19 AM
No, he's worse than Tommy DeVito.
Ah yes with arguments like this its amazing you're not a CEO.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 11:57:41 AM
Yeah that's it you cracked the code, the people that think he stinks are unreasonable and want to be right.
I've got nothing against folks who aren't impressed with Zach. But there's nuance. He's not the worst QB in football.
Nobody is making the argument he's great. He's being a game manager who occasionally makes a big play or two. That's exactly what we all wanted last year because it gets us into the playoffs.
The unreasonable part comes when someone expects him to be the next Steve Young because, ya know, he was drafted so high. Or that he should magically be much better because he's no longer the backup QB, he's the starter.
We brought in a 40 year old QB to be the starter and Zach wasn't supposed to take any snaps outside of a 30-point blowout kneeldown. But he's out here not losing games and even helping to win some. With a disgustingly bad offensive unit surrounding him.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 11:59:36 AM
Are you a gymnast because that is stellar contortions to make a ridiculous point.
Dude, don't be so grumpy. Didn't think I needed a /s tag on that one.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 31, 2023, 12:01:26 PM
I've got nothing against folks who aren't impressed with Zach. But there's nuance. He's not the worst QB in football.
Nobody is making the argument he's great. He's being a game manager who occasionally makes a big play or two. That's exactly what we all wanted last year because it gets us into the playoffs.
The unreasonable part comes when someone expects him to be the next Steve Young because, ya know, he was drafted so high. Or that he should magically be much better because he's no longer the backup QB, he's the starter.
We brought in a 40 year old QB to be the starter and Zach wasn't supposed to take any snaps outside of a 30-point blowout kneeldown. But he's out here not losing games and even helping to win some. With a disgustingly bad offensive unit surrounding him.
Yeah poor Zach, you're right he isn't the worst QB in NFL but that's not what I said
Post by: Miamipuck on October 31, 2023, 12:02:14 PM
Dude, don't be so grumpy. Didn't think I needed a /s tag on that one.
Grumpy? Nag don't see the need to polish a turd so freak off.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 12:02:49 PM
He doesn’t have the ability to elevate the players around him and most of the players around him are tapped out in terms of how much they can elevate him (there’s another promise JD broke to a QB).
It’s reasonable to be pissed off that your 2nd overall pick is playing like a backup QB 3 years into his career and that this represents progress for him, but given everything that happened this offseason surrounding Wilson’s tenure as QB, his performance is the last thing I’d be pissed about.
The WRs, the OLine, the game planning, catering the offense to a guy who didn’t hold up for a complete drive in the regular season, are all things I’d be pissed off about before being pissed off that Zach Wilson is playing marginally better than he was before he got benched twice last season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 12:06:02 PM
The replies are predictable.I am trying to have nuance, but people on this board can't even admit he didn't play well in a game where the Jets scored 13 points (10 in regulation), and the only TD came on a 1-yard pass with 49 yards after catch that was essentially Breece making another otherworldly play.
"But he was a #2 pick not a backup!"
"Why do we have to put up with it?"
"He stinks and you're stupid!"
Enunwa's literally asking people to accept that there can be nuance, but nah. It's either you're Joe Namath or Christian Hackenberg.
Also, I'm really tired of the whole "first-round pick" thing. How many QBs have been picked in the first round throughout the history of the draft? And how many of them went on to have a 10+ year career? It sucks, sure, but draft position is no guarantee of success.
I'm not saying he should be benched. He should play. But we can admit he doesn't play well when he doesn't play well. He played well against the Chiefs. He played badly against the Giants. He was miserable against the Patriots. He has 5 touchdowns in 7 games where he's played almost every snap.
He usually has 1-2 drives a game where he looks good and struggles the rest of it. The OL and non-GW WRs aren't helping, but multiple things can be bad at once. Zach can be making small improvements and still be bad most of the time.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 12:12:41 PM
I am trying to have nuance, but people on this board can't even admit he didn't play well in a game where the Jets scored 13 points (10 in regulation), and the only TD came on a 1-yard pass with 49 yards after catch that was essentially Breece making another otherworldly play.
I'm not saying he should be benched. He should play. But we can admit he doesn't play well when he doesn't play well. He played well against the Chiefs. He played badly against the Giants. He was miserable against the Patriots. He has 5 touchdowns in 7 games where he's played almost every snap.
He usually has 1-2 drives a game where he looks good and struggles the rest of it. The OL and non-GW WRs aren't helping, but multiple things can be bad at once. Zach can be making small improvements and still be bad most of the time.
Who here has said he played well?
He was a game manager for 3.95 quarters, neither doing anything special or anything particularly egregious. (And yes, fumbling is an issue, but less problematic when it's a blindside hit before he even sets his feet.)
The only argument anyone's making is that he's playing improved football. Yes, the bar was incredibly low. But better is better, and we're winning games we would've lost in the second half of last year. And there's reason to believe that if he had a #2 WR who could catch, a decent OL, and better playcalling, he could play better.
Nuance.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 31, 2023, 12:17:51 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 12:22:07 PM
I'll just say Zach looks better than last year via the eye test. Kind of a low bar, but still. Last year, with this kind of pressure he was throwing dumb interceptions, missing wide open receivers, and staggering backwards 67 yards trying to play sandlot ball. He looks like a NFL QB this year sticking around in a shitty pocket, not panicking, and making throws that are not dumb and are accurate. I'd like to see what he could do with a decent offensive line. Last year I had no desire to see him anymore no matter what.That's what annoyed me about the Giants game. He looked like he was getting into some of his old habits against pressure - fading backwards and not throwing it away. He was so atrocious under pressure in 2021-22, and he had improved to merely below average.
The OL needs to do a better job keeping him clean, but Zach needs to keep working on his habits under pressure.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 12:24:06 PM
That's what annoyed me about the Giants game. He looked like he was getting into some of his old habits against pressure - fading backwards and not throwing it away. He was so atrocious under pressure in 2021-22, and he had improved to merely below average.
The OL needs to do a better job keeping him clean, but Zach needs to keep working on his habits under pressure.
Hard to step up when most of the pressure is coming from the nose tackle.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2023, 12:28:05 PM
Hard to step up when most of the pressure is coming from the nose tackle.
Yep. The only place to go was backwards.
He hung in the pocket when he could and made some good throws while taking hits.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2023, 12:32:03 PM
Nania stinks but this shows plenty of plays where his footwork was fine.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 01:36:14 PM
That's what annoyed me about the Giants game. He looked like he was getting into some of his old habits against pressure - fading backwards and not throwing it away. He was so atrocious under pressure in 2021-22, and he had improved to merely below average.
The OL needs to do a better job keeping him clean, but Zach needs to keep working on his habits under pressure.
And yet you wanted to throw out the really nice chicken salad from chicken excrement pass that we all thought was him (rightfully) just throwing it away.
Mahomes does the same thing and he gets a new State Farm commercial.
We all want to see Zach improve under pressure. But we should all also demand Zach be under less pressure. There are very few QBs--ever--who were "good" under pressure. The way to beat Manning and Brady was always to hit them early. Zach has an advantage over those guys because he's far more mobile, so he can do more with his legs. But that's not the best answer, and it also sets him up for bad things to happen if it's constant.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 01:48:20 PM
And yet you wanted to throw out the really nice chicken salad from chicken excrement pass that we all thought was him (rightfully) just throwing it away.You keep missing the point. Nobody is saying a quarterback should be good under pressure. But the play shouldn't be dead as soon as he's under pressure, and it has been at a higher rate than Zach than pretty much any other QB.
Mahomes does the same thing and he gets a new State Farm commercial.
We all want to see Zach improve under pressure. But we should all also demand Zach be under less pressure. There are very few QBs--ever--who were "good" under pressure. The way to beat Manning and Brady was always to hit them early. Zach has an advantage over those guys because he's far more mobile, so he can do more with his legs. But that's not the best answer, and it also sets him up for bad things to happen if it's constant.
We all want Zach to be under less pressure. That's been an offseason goal for far too long, and it's never been accomplished, no matter how many picks and FA signings we make. It's immensely frustrating. I think the OL would be OK if it were healthy, but it's not. The AVT injury is so frustrating, and the injury cluster against the Giants was brutal as well.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2023, 01:50:24 PM
You keep missing the point. Nobody is saying a quarterback should be good under pressure. But the play shouldn't be dead as soon as he's under pressure, and it has been at a higher rate than Zach than pretty much any other QB.
Buddy, there were at least 4 plays against the Giants where he evaded pressure and hit his target in the hands...and they dropped it. Our two best players both had crucial drops. There's at least 40 yards missed due to drops.
It's not all on him.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 31, 2023, 01:52:40 PM
You keep missing the point. Nobody is saying a quarterback should be good under pressure. But the play shouldn't be dead as soon as he's under pressure, and it has been at a higher rate than Zach than pretty much any other QB.
We all want Zach to be under less pressure. That's been an offseason goal for far too long, and it's never been accomplished, no matter how many picks and FA signings we make. It's immensely frustrating. I think the OL would be OK if it were healthy, but it's not. The AVT injury is so frustrating, and the injury cluster against the Giants was brutal as well.
He's far from good, but he did make some good throws when the pocket collapsed almost instantaneously, but they were dropped.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 01:54:46 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 01:57:47 PM
The one thing that I'm certain of is that continued participation in this thread will only build consensus.Well, because people keep arguing past each other. Most of us agree that it's a collective issue between the QB, OL and receivers, but some people seem unwilling to blame Zach for any of it.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 31, 2023, 02:00:45 PM
Well, because people keep arguing past each other. Most of us agree that it's a collective issue between the QB, OL and receivers, but some people seem unwilling to blame Zach for any of it.
If we can all agree that it's a collective issue across the 3 position groups you mentioned, then I think we have alignment. /thread
Post by: Libero_2 on October 31, 2023, 02:06:15 PM
https://x.com/Michael_Nania/status/1718967183823298994?s=20
Nania stinks but this shows plenty of plays where his footwork was fine.
That throw on the corner route to Garrett (2nd in the clip, that gets knocked out. He was so open and Zach seemed to look at him and hesitate. If he has just let it fly a beat earlier it’s a big completion. That and the miss at Breeces feet were the two most painful ones IMO. The Ruckert seam route was WIDE open when Zach tries to throw only to have his head taken off. The Lazard drop was painful because 1. Zach could have hit him earlier, but because he didn’t and extended the play he ended up dropping a perfect freaking some and Lazard couldn’t handle it. If Zach hit him in the first window, does he catch it (because it wouldn’t have been a sliding grab?) no idea. But Lazard needs to do his job on that one
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2023, 02:14:14 PM
Well, because people keep arguing past each other. Most of us agree that it's a collective issue between the QB, OL and receivers, but some people seem unwilling to blame Zach for any of it.
All right, so everyone is derriere, it all sucks, the season is done, let's just freak it all off and watch hockey instead.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2023, 02:27:09 PM
If he has just let it fly a beat earlier it’s a big completion.
Garrett dropped it. It was a fine throw. The receiver waited on the football instead of coming back to it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 02:31:08 PM
That throw on the corner route to Garrett (2nd in the clip, that gets knocked out. He was so open and Zach seemed to look at him and hesitate. If he has just let it fly a beat earlier it’s a big completion. That and the miss at Breeces feet were the two most painful ones IMO. The Ruckert seam route was WIDE open when Zach tries to throw only to have his head taken off. The Lazard drop was painful because 1. Zach could have hit him earlier, but because he didn’t and extended the play he ended up dropping a perfect freaking some and Lazard couldn’t handle it. If Zach hit him in the first window, does he catch it (because it wouldn’t have been a sliding grab?) no idea. But Lazard needs to do his job on that one
The throw to Breece in the link? Because that one hit Breece right in his hands, he just dropped it when he tried to turn up the field too soon.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 31, 2023, 02:32:00 PM
Garrett dropped it. It was a fine throw. The receiver waited on the football instead of coming back to it.
I’m not disputing that. I’m just saying in the stadium everyone gasped when they saw him come that wide open. Zach hesitates a beat and then lets it fly. If he doesn’t hesitate/half pump fake with his arm, and just lets it fly it’s a completion. If Garret comes back he probably scares it before he gets hit. And despite all of it, that’s a grab you expect all world WRs to make.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2023, 02:32:23 PM
The throw to Breece in the link? Because that one hit Breece right in his hands, he just dropped it when he tried to turn up the field too soon.
There was one on 3rd and 1. Zach threw a shitty ball that landed short of Hall. It's a first down if he hit him. Hated the playcall, but the execution was why it didn't work.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 02:32:48 PM
There was one on 3rd and 1. Zach threw a shitty ball that landed short of Hall. It's a first down if he hit him. Hated the playcall, but the execution was why it didn't work.
Ah.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 31, 2023, 02:33:21 PM
The throw to Breece in the link? Because that one hit Breece right in his hands, he just dropped it when he tried to turn up the field too soon.
No the one on 3rd and a yard and he dirted it. That one isn’t in the clip. The one to Breece in the clip seems to me, to be a perfect throw and Breece just didn’t catch it because he was already moving on mentally to figuring out how he was gonna juke the final 6 guys and score again
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 02:34:49 PM
All right, so everyone is derriere, it all sucks, the season is done, let's just freak it all off and watch hockey instead.Yet it's all Hackett's fault.
We have a top-5 defense and a mostly bad offense. Luckily, 'mostly bad' hasn't involved many turnovers, and Breece has created a ton of big plays.
The issue is how the offense does if Breece isn't breaking a 40+ yard play every other game.
Luckily, we've played a difficult group of defenses so far. Hopefully, Zach can step up against some of the worse defenses we face. Granted, he wasn't great against Denver or the Giants, who both fit that mold, but Denver was on the road (and they're improving), and the Giants was in horrible weather.
We won last year with Zach playing at a similar level overall. Then AVT and Breece got hurt and it all fell apart. If Breece or GW get hurt, this offense will probably look like December 2022.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 02:35:26 PM
No the one on 3rd and a yard and he dirted it. That one isn’t in the clip. The one to Breece in the clip seems to me, to be a perfect throw and Breece just didn’t catch it because he was already moving on mentally to figuring out how he was gonna juke the final 6 guys and score againThat was the only drop I saw in the tracking metrics I see in TruMedia, though there were several others that could have definitely been caught.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 02:36:51 PM
No the one on 3rd and a yard and he dirted it. That one isn’t in the clip. The one to Breece in the clip seems to me, to be a perfect throw and Breece just didn’t catch it because he was already moving on mentally to figuring out how he was gonna juke the final 6 guys and score again
Gotcha. I was fairly drunk during this game and watching on my phone at a bar so there's a lot I don't remember.
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2023, 02:37:43 PM
Yet it's all Hackett's fault.
We have a top-5 defense and a mostly bad offense. Luckily, 'mostly bad' hasn't involved many turnovers, and Breece has created a ton of big plays.
The issue is how the offense does if Breece isn't breaking a 40+ yard play every other game.
Luckily, we've played a difficult group of defenses so far. Hopefully, Zach can step up against some of the worse defenses we face. Granted, he wasn't great against Denver or the Giants, who both fit that mold, but Denver was on the road (and they're improving), and the Giants was in horrible weather.
We won last year with Zach playing at a similar level overall. Then AVT and Breece got hurt and it all fell apart. If Breece or GW get hurt, this offense will probably look like December 2022.
I don't disagree with you necessarily, I just think it's funny that last season everyone was saying "if Zach just stopped doing dumb things and turning it over, he doesn't even need to be good, we'd make the playoffs", and now this season he's stopped doing dumb things and turning it over and people are complaining that he's not good. We're getting exactly the progress we asked for before Rodgers was a thing, and we're still moaning about it.
Post by: Jumbo on October 31, 2023, 02:38:20 PM
He was a game manager for 3.95 quarters, neither doing anything special or anything particularly egregious. (And yes, fumbling is an issue, but less problematic when it's a blindside hit before he even sets his feet.)
If he was a game manager I would have been fine.
In those 3.95 quarters, the only drive that led to points involved a check down to Breece where he took it 50 yards by his own sheer will. Other than that, we scored 0 points. That's not being a game manager, that's playing like excrement. Yes, there are other factors, but not turning the ball over is not the only criterion involved in managing a game effectively.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 02:46:41 PM
If he was a game manager I would have been fine.Pretty much.
In those 3.95 quarters, the only drive that led to points involved a check down to Breece where he took it 50 yards by his own sheer will. Other than that, we scored 0 points. That's not being a game manager, that's playing like excrement. Yes, there are other factors, but not turning the ball over is not the only criterion involved in managing a game effectively.
And I agree that the "he doesn't need to be good, just don't turn the ball over" is mostly enough. But at the current way things are going, I don't know if our way of winning is sustainable.
There's also a stat out there about what our record would be if we scored 17 points in every game. I just worry that we won't even be able to put up those 17 points if Breece isn't leading the NFL in yards per carry. If Garrett or Breece misses a game, I don't know how we score touchdowns.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 02:48:02 PM
Well, because people keep arguing past each other. Most of us agree that it's a collective issue between the QB, OL and receivers, but some people seem unwilling to blame Zach for any of it.
This is completely incorrect
Yet it's all Hackett's fault.
We have a top-5 defense and a mostly bad offense. Luckily, 'mostly bad' hasn't involved many turnovers, and Breece has created a ton of big plays.
The issue is how the offense does if Breece isn't breaking a 40+ yard play every other game.
Luckily, we've played a difficult group of defenses so far. Hopefully, Zach can step up against some of the worse defenses we face. Granted, he wasn't great against Denver or the Giants, who both fit that mold, but Denver was on the road (and they're improving), and the Giants was in horrible weather.
We won last year with Zach playing at a similar level overall. Then AVT and Breece got hurt and it all fell apart. If Breece or GW get hurt, this offense will probably look like December 2022.
What do we do if one of our only two playmakers stops making plays?
This is where the conversation breaks down. You're accusing others of saying Zach is faultless (he's not and no one's saying he is) while continuing to refuse to acknowledge the point that Zach keeps being let down by the rest of the offense.
The line can't block. His receivers are dropping passes any professional should catch. His tight ends are non-existent in the passing game. If Breece isn't on the field, the defense can safely play against the pass because no other RB on this team can run for 4+ yards.
And this week he took snaps from a guy who hasn't snapped a ball since college and was on the practice squad on Saturday. In the rain.
You're not asking him to overcome some pressure. You're asking him to be an elite QB just to get to average performance.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 02:54:22 PM
If he was a game manager I would have been fine.
In those 3.95 quarters, the only drive that led to points involved a check down to Breece where he took it 50 yards by his own sheer will. Other than that, we scored 0 points. That's not being a game manager, that's playing like excrement. Yes, there are other factors, but not turning the ball over is not the only criterion involved in managing a game effectively.
Yes, if you ignore all the drops, the fact that Cook can't run, the rain, the fact that we had a third string guard playing center along with fill-ins all along the line, Becton having a terrible game, and the TEs being invisible, Zach was completely at fault.
What exactly is your definition of "managing a game"?
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 02:55:54 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 02:57:11 PM
Pretty much.
And I agree that the "he doesn't need to be good, just don't turn the ball over" is mostly enough. But at the current way things are going, I don't know if our way of winning is sustainable.
There's also a stat out there about what our record would be if we scored 17 points in every game. I just worry that we won't even be able to put up those 17 points if Breece isn't leading the NFL in yards per carry. If Garrett or Breece misses a game, I don't know how we score touchdowns.
You don't know how we score touchdowns when one of the only two good skill players on this team are out? Weird, me too. I bet Hackett wonders as well, hell Rodgers too.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 02:57:32 PM
Make out already.
I'm saving myself for you
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 03:01:04 PM
I'm saving myself for you
If that's a selfie I'm going to have to ask you to lose the makeup.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 03:02:07 PM
Make out already.I prefer not to make out with people who can't read.
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2023, 03:03:19 PM
I prefer not to make out with people who can't read.
You don't have to provide the pre-nup before you make out.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 03:05:24 PM
You don't have to provide the pre-nup before you make out.That's fair. Maybe I could do a hookup.
It's just funny because I've been maybe the biggest Lazard/Cobb hater on this board. I've said for weeks we need to get a WR. Kind of annoyed it looks like JD didn't do anything.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 03:06:36 PM
If that's a selfie I'm going to have to ask you to lose the makeup.
It's greasy. Helps the slide.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 03:10:56 PM
It's greasy. Helps the slide.
Sounds like it'll trigger my acne problems. I'm out.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 03:11:01 PM
It's greasy. Helps the slide.Start off with a nice game of D&D?
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 03:15:53 PM
Start off with a nice game of D&D?
Come into my dungeon. I'll show you my dragon.
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2023, 03:17:12 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 03:18:23 PM
I think I preferred it when you were nitpicking about Zach.
You tell us, JE.
Only YOU (and MB) get to dwell in the dungeon today!
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2023, 03:19:40 PM
Come into my dungeon. I'll show you my dragon.(https://a4.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2020%2F1221%2Fr793134_1296x729_16%2D9.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2023, 03:21:28 PM
You tell us, JE.Avoiding random kids is stellar for my mental health
Only YOU (and MB) get to dwell in the dungeon today!
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 31, 2023, 06:51:49 PM
Avoiding random kids is stellar for my mental health
Terrifying them is therapeutic.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 31, 2023, 07:04:14 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:52:52 PM
I'll just say Zach looks better than last year via the eye test. Kind of a low bar, but still. Last year, with this kind of pressure he was throwing dumb interceptions, missing wide open receivers, and staggering backwards 67 yards trying to play sandlot ball. He looks like a NFL QB this year sticking around in a shitty pocket, not panicking, and making throws that are not dumb and are accurate. I'd like to see what he could do with a decent offensive line. Last year I had no desire to see him anymore no matter what.
This is what I see.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:53:31 PM
That's what annoyed me about the Giants game. He looked like he was getting into some of his old habits against pressure - fading backwards and not throwing it away. He was so atrocious under pressure in 2021-22, and he had improved to merely below average.
The OL needs to do a better job keeping him clean, but Zach needs to keep working on his habits under pressure.
The OL needs to not allow 15 pressures to a NT, STFU
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:56:06 PM
Pretty much.
And I agree that the "he doesn't need to be good, just don't turn the ball over" is mostly enough. But at the current way things are going, I don't know if our way of winning is sustainable.
There's also a stat out there about what our record would be if we scored 17 points in every game. I just worry that we won't even be able to put up those 17 points if Breece isn't leading the NFL in yards per carry. If Garrett or Breece misses a game, I don't know how we score touchdowns.
Stop saying excrement like “I don’t think he should be benched” or “isn’t sustainable”
We’re not playing Tim Boyle or Trevor Semen. It’s always been Plan Z.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 31, 2023, 10:59:04 PM
(https://a4.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2020%2F1221%2Fr793134_1296x729_16%2D9.jpg)
This is just further evidence that Zach has improved this year
Post by: reuben on October 31, 2023, 11:28:09 PM
His first year, were sold the idea that he was raw but capable of tremendous growth.
After two years, it appeared that he was ultra raw, bad, and incapable of growth.
This season, he's upgraded to about medium rare, below-average, and growing.
It's that third part that has me interested. I don't know if he'll be able to continue to grow with the state of this offense, but I've gone from totally writing him off to cautiously optimistic. I want to see Zach Wilson play.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2023, 09:39:02 AM
Stop saying excrement like “I don’t think he should be benched” or “isn’t sustainable”Winning with 1 offensive TD per game is not sustainable, whether or not you want to believe it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2023, 09:50:00 AM
Winning with 1 offensive TD per game is not sustainable, whether or not you want to believe it.
If we don't make significant improvements to our offense in the offseason that trend is going to flip so hard on us next year.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 01, 2023, 09:50:56 AM
Winning with 1 offensive TD per game is not sustainable, whether or not you want to believe it.
The problem is more about the offensive line right now instead of Zach.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2023, 09:59:03 AM
The problem is more about the offensive line right now instead of Zach.The problem is everything. Lots of teams have bad OL. We have a combo of bad OL, bad QB, bad OC and top-heavy skill players.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2023, 02:22:02 PM
Hate away.
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 01, 2023, 02:42:10 PM
he's not a franchise QB, he won't be a franchise QB. that sucks. get over it. like mexjet said, after next year we're going to have to start looking for our new franchise QB.
all i want from the guy is backup level, 'game manager' type play. bar the giants game, he has given us that the last several weeks. last year, i did not want to watch him at all and i had no confidence in him playing even at a backup level coming into this season. on multiple occasions this year he's shown us huge improvements in previously deficient areas where i feel okay with him being a league backup / game manager - type for us.
on top of all that, because of his arm talent he'll have his moments here and there where he will come up with a big time throw.
he's not perfect, he won't pan out as the #2 overall pick we thought we drafted, but that was why he became the 'backup' plan when we went all out for rodgers anyways. i no longer feel the need to be hugely critical of him for not playing to a level that i do not think he is capable of.
using the giants game as a reason why he can't play at a game manager level is nonsensical. the conditions of that game were an abomination from top to bottom. rainy as excrement, players slipping all over the place, shitty derriere field swallowing players whole, losing both our center options and having to play a PS OL that is not a center there, WRs with drops, breece with a bad game rushing. this game would have been the AIDS it was even if zach wasn't out there at qb. c'mon.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 03:10:18 PM
The game thread was very telling.
"Will Levis is better!"
"Way to go you cuck!"
"This game is over"
You want him to fail. I was the same way with Geno Smith. You are actively rooting against him. Anything positive that he does, it's not good enough.
One of the biggest issues with this excrement franchise is the fans are doomsdayers. All of those people that walked out of the stadium after the second to last drive shouldn't be allowed to attend a game for the remainder of the season. freak 'em.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 03:15:22 PM
SBTG
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2023, 03:40:18 PM
Mack so desperately wants Zach to be bad so he can say "I told ya so" the moment he eventually throws a pick.I know you have your narrative about what I think, but it's not based in reality.
The game thread was very telling.
"Will Levis is better!"
"Way to go you cuck!"
"This game is over"
You want him to fail. I was the same way with Geno Smith. You are actively rooting against him. Anything positive that he does, it's not good enough.
One of the biggest issues with this excrement franchise is the fans are doomsdayers. All of those people that walked out of the stadium after the second to last drive shouldn't be allowed to attend a game for the remainder of the season. freak 'em.
I've said I was fine with him as the backup the whole time. I've said there's a tiny, tiny chance that Rodgers can turn him into the player we hoped we drafted.
I just see a guy who has led an offense that has scored 8 touchdowns in 7 weeks and don't understand why this board babies him so much. I know the OL sucks. I know Lazard isn't good (despite his blocking) and Cobb sucks (even though he knows where to line up). There are plenty of excuses. But Zach is the quarterback. He's been here 2.5 years. You hate Geno, but Geno had a couple really good games. He also had a lot more horrendous games. Geno had several games as a Jet better than the best game Zach has played here.
I would love nothing more for Zach to be good. But this idea that it's 100% the offensive line's fault is just wrong.
The Giants literally weren't playing a quarterback, and we couldn't score a point for 59 minutes except when Breece Hall made an otherworldly Breece Hall play. So was I angry during the game thread? How could you not be?
I know you thought Zach was an elite prospect and you want to be right, so you defend him at all costs. I liked him as a prospect, too. I was fine drafting him. I'm not one of those guys who thought he was an overhyped prospect who had one good year against a bad schedule in a COVID season. A lot of fans said that after the fact. Not me. I saw the potential. But I also am not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend he's playing better than he is.
The game was 99.9% over based on win probability. We needed the Giants to miss a short field goal, and to somehow move the ball 50 yards in 23 seconds without a time out when we had barely moved the ball all game. The game was essentially over unless 100 things went right. And we got all those things to go our way. Zach deserves credit for some of those things, and I give him credit for those things.
I am desperate for Zach to succeed. I am desperate for the Jets to be a playoff team. But I'm not going to pretend he's playing better than he is. I'm going to be objective like I have always been. You're the one rooting against our own players you don't like - you even admit it. I call it like I see it. I'm not going to be right every time. When he plays well, I say he plays well. When he plays poorly, I say he plays poorly.
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2023, 04:00:43 PM
The Giants literally weren't playing a quarterback, and we couldn't score a point for 59 minutes except when Breece Hall made an otherworldly Breece Hall play. So was I angry during the game thread? How could you not be?
I'm not really sure how these things are related. The Giants' quarterback does not play against ours. I know you're referring to the fact that they kept giving us the ball back, but that was just more opportunities for their line to tee off on our disastermess.
Also, it was a really good run by Breece to score but you're being somewhat disingenuous to not mention Zach's role in it. It's not like he just handed the ball off three yards behind the LOS.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 04:26:34 PM
The game was 99.9% over based on win probability.
This kind of thinking is why Brandon Staley will get fired before the season is over
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 04:28:02 PM
I know you thought Zach was an elite prospect and you want to be right, so you defend him at all costs.
I defend him because he's our quarterback.
The only elite prospect in that draft was Trevor Lawrence and we screwed that up so I'm rooting for our guy.
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 01, 2023, 04:43:12 PM
I defend him because he's our quarterback.
The only elite prospect in that draft was Trevor Lawrence and we screwed that up so I'm rooting for our guy.
just one more loss and this team would be freaking so hard with lawrence at the helm right now. it's a tired fight/argument and i won't go into it further, but this is why it's okay to root for losses sometimes.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2023, 05:17:49 PM
I defend him because he's our quarterback.Agree. It's all Johnny English's fault.
The only elite prospect in that draft was Trevor Lawrence and we screwed that up so I'm rooting for our guy.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 01, 2023, 05:24:18 PM
I just see a guy who has led an offense that has scored 8 touchdowns in 7 weeks and don't understand why this board babies him so much. I know the OL sucks. I know Lazard isn't good (despite his blocking) and Cobb sucks (even though he knows where to line up). There are plenty of excuses. But Zach is the quarterback. He's been here 2.5 years.
I don't want to fall down this rabbit hole again, but what?
Babies him? Everyone says he needs to play better. Yes, we're also saying he's improving (which he is) but no one is babying him.
You readily admit that the offensive line sucks and that his #2 and #3 receivers suck. Add in tight ends that are irrelevant in the passing game, and a running game that consists of Breece Hall with poor blocking.
He's literally got every single facet of the offense stacked against him except his #1 RB and #1 WR.
Yeah, he's been here 2.5 years, and he's missed games twice due to injury. That he's still hanging in the pocket at all is a testament to him.
I would love nothing more for Zach to be good. But this idea that it's 100% the offensive line's fault is just wrong.
See, you talked about my reading comprehension yesterday, but you're either purposely ignoring what's being said or you have none yourself.
No one, hell not even you just above, said it was 100% the OL. It's largely the lack of protection, but it's also that if Breece isn't on the field, the defense doesn't worry about a run. It's also the the TEs are little threat in the passing game. It's also that if you blanket Garrett, there's a good chance any passing play will end in an incompletion. There's also the questionable playcalling.
Zach has a part in it. He still holds the ball too long sometimes. He still puts it on ground--regardless of blindside sacks, he's gotta protect the ball. He sometimes still tries to make something out of nothing.
But he's a lot better today than he was a year ago. And he's still progressing. With literally almost every single possible negative being thrown at him.
The game was 99.9% over based on win probability. We needed the Giants to miss a short field goal, and to somehow move the ball 50 yards in 23 seconds without a time out when we had barely moved the ball all game. The game was essentially over unless 100 things went right. And we got all those things to go our way. Zach deserves credit for some of those things, and I give him credit for those things.
So if the things that happened didn't happen things would've ended differently? There's a reason there's a clock that has to run to zero.
If the Jets don't lose their starting center, then their backup center, does the end result change? Maybe we win in a laugher. Maybe we get blown out. This is why I get into so many arguments about stats and analytics. They're all great, but human beings play the game.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 01, 2023, 05:46:33 PM
Post by: reuben on November 01, 2023, 05:49:36 PM
I'm pretty sure if we had Lawrence we'd have fucked that up too. But he was a way better prospect.
"Never Lawrence back on IR. Dude's made of glass"
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 05:49:48 PM
I'm pretty sure if we had Lawrence we'd have fucked that up too. But he was a way better prospect.
Odds are we would've had a very different coach, likely Doug Pederson.
It's fun and depressing to think about.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2023, 05:49:53 PM
This kind of thinking is why Brandon Staley will get fired before the season is over
It's fun watching someone turn into the board's Joe Morgan.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2023, 06:50:11 PM
It's fun watching someone turn into the board's Joe Morgan.Oh nah, Joe Morgan was the most anti-analytic analyst of all time. I was a regular reader of firejoemorgan.com back in the day.
Not trying to argue about this. I dont want to be perceived as the mega-anti-Zach guy. I want him to succeed. But I want to see it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2023, 07:08:19 PM
Oh nah, Joe Morgan was the most anti-analytic analyst of all time. I was a regular reader of firejoemorgan.com back in the day.
Not trying to argue about this. I dont want to be perceived as the mega-anti-Zach guy. I want him to succeed. But I want to see it.
I'm confused. Did you think that post was about you or about me poking fun at Heis for his frequent anti-analytic stances?
Post by: reuben on November 01, 2023, 07:19:12 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 01, 2023, 07:22:41 PM
(https://i.redd.it/kfwmbc6grsxb1.jpg)
Does he get credit for the Bills one in this? He must right?
Bills, tied it and Zach never touched the ball in OT
Denver, we had the lead in early Q3 with the big Breece run
Philly, gets credit for this despite the defense getting us the shot for Breece to walk in the endzone
Giants, easily Zach’s best contribution to a comeback victory this season.
Somehow even this stat being setup as a Zach stat is still majorly misleading, that said, freak it go Zach!
Side note, I heard somebody describe the Giants game as Zach’s version of the Mark Sanchez vs Texans game in 2010. I think that’s a pretty apt description. Setting aside the fact that after Mark pulled that rabbit out of his hat, I thought for sure he was going to be “The Guy” who took us all the way, and was going to be our guy for 15 years.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2023, 08:24:18 PM
I'm confused. Did you think that post was about you or about me poking fun at Heis for his frequent anti-analytic stances?I dont read good
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2023, 09:36:38 PM
The film proves that Zach's critics are ignoring facts 👀
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2023, 09:38:35 PM
My Column:
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 09:42:24 PM
https://x.com/michael_nania/status/1719363116188700691?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
The film proves that Zach's critics are ignoring facts 👀
Nania "bashed" him the entire game and deleted his shitty tweets after we won
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 02, 2023, 11:03:36 AM
Post by: Badger on November 02, 2023, 12:12:02 PM
https://x.com/throwthedamball/status/1720036278647832666?s=42&t=oQHlTr9_OCVIYXOt5gHlYQI'm too busy to decipher this
Post by: Johnny English on November 02, 2023, 12:12:45 PM
I'm too busy to decipher this
Zach average
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2023, 01:19:31 PM
Zach average
I was told he's the worst QB in the league
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 02, 2023, 01:22:24 PM
I was told he's the worst QB in the league
I believe it's actually spelled Whack Zilchson.
I'm not nor will I ever be sorry.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 02, 2023, 07:31:49 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 03, 2023, 05:57:41 AM
No one will love Zach as much as this team does.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231103/07bcbdb6fdb333880fdad0e903799ae3.jpg)
In the end, that’s all that matters is that the locker room is behind him and he keeps making plays when he has to, to win the game in front of us
Post by: Coach K on November 04, 2023, 11:26:56 PM
But hes no longer someone without any sort of future in this league .
Was just reading the back and forth and all I can say is even with Hackett having some bad games this season is an indictment on MLF imo .
We got one damn good gunslinger half in the KC game and a few solid game manager performances.
Last week was a rainy shitshow and they might as well have had me in at OL by the 3rd quarter .
I honestly want to be a little more aggressive this week . Chargers can stop the run and have edge rushers but their DB play is crap aside from Derwin
Anyways Zach is not getting much help imo from the fact our OL is patchwork, the fact nobody is either consistently open or catching passes when they're actually thrown well .
He was a backup who was supposed to be on a mulligan year and the whole offense had to be re tooled after 1 game .
It looks like this should look
If we had better OL play and better WRs I'd get the frustration
But he was replaced as the starter so we're loterally running a backup OL and backup QB
Hes trending upwards imo . You can hear it in PCs and see him taking shot after shot and still not crumbling as bad as he had 2 years prior
I'm rooting for him and as long as he can continue to make incremental improvements and this schedule eases up we should have a shot .
Just sucks the afc is gonna have like six or more 9 win teams this yr and who knows where we're gonna land
I Repent For The Sin Of Saying SOJ
Post by: Heismanberg on November 05, 2023, 02:50:07 PM
Post by: Jumbo on November 05, 2023, 03:27:58 PM
Clayton Tune, the latest NFL QB that's better than Zach
Wow, he's better than a rookie 5th round pick on a team with significantly worse talent? Extend him for $50M APY now
Post by: Heismanberg on November 05, 2023, 03:31:49 PM
Wow, he's better than a rookie 5th round pick on a team with significantly worse talent? Extend him for $50M APY now
I didn't know you still washed Puck's balls
Post by: Miamipuck on November 05, 2023, 07:22:59 PM
I didn't know you still washed Puck's balls
In a year or two you will say ,I told you Zach sucks.
We all know how much you know about football, though. <insert a rolls eyes emoji>
Your schtick is more tired than .....
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 05, 2023, 08:40:44 PM
#Jets
Post by: Jumbo on November 06, 2023, 10:33:07 PM
We don't have the worst weapons in the NFL, it's bad at WR outside of Garrett, but the TEs are serviceable and we have arguably a top 5 RB. The OL is rated poorly but to some extent it's a function of QB play. I'm watching the game back now and he's getting back into the habit of taking awful sacks again.
I get that he wasn't Plan A... but he's still the problem.
Post by: reuben on November 06, 2023, 10:43:22 PM
How about we just watch the game and hopefully Zach plays good
#Jets
This was terrible advice.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2023, 10:44:27 PM
He has 5 total TD to 11 turnovers in 8 starts. We are the second worst offense in the NFL behind only Giants who have had to play Tommy DeVito for extended time in multiple games.We now have the fewest offensive touchdowns in the NFL this season
We don't have the worst weapons in the NFL, it's bad at WR outside of Garrett, but the TEs are serviceable and we have arguably a top 5 RB. The OL is rated poorly but to some extent it's a function of QB play. I'm watching the game back now and he's getting back into the habit of taking awful sacks again.
I get that he wasn't Plan A... but he's still the problem.
Here are the Jets 8 offensive TD this season
- One-handed catch by Garrett against Bills
- 68-yard Garrett reception vs Cowboys (great pass by Zach)
- 1-yard Bawden rush TD set up by a brilliant Randall Cobb flop in the back of the end zone that saved us from kicking a FG
- Lazard TD vs Chiefs (great pass by Zach)
- Uzomah TD vs Chiefs (good play by Zach)
- Breece 72-yd run vs DEN
- Breece 8-yd run vs PHI (Eagles let us score)
- Breece 50-yd reception vs NYG (almost all YAC)
It's a team effort. Hard for one player to make an offense be this bad. If there is one player that can do that, it's the quarterback, but while Zach is bad, he has a LOT of help being bad.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 06, 2023, 10:45:10 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 06, 2023, 10:48:15 PM
Let's assume we excrement the bed for the rest of the season bc we don't know what TD's are and end up drafting in the top 10. Is this QB class good enough that we draft Rodger's heir or do we take best OL available?
OL or WR
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2023, 11:01:29 PM
OL or WR
OK now do we excrement the bed so hard Rodgers retires.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 06, 2023, 11:02:16 PM
OK now do we excrement the bed so hard Rodgers retires.
I’d still take OL or WR over the QBs that will be available when we’re on the clock
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2023, 11:03:57 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 06, 2023, 11:04:05 PM
OL or WRJoe Douglas is banned from drafting anything but OL until we have a line that is considered serviceable. It's irrelevant how good the receivers are if the QB has no time to find them.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Joe Douglas is banned from drafting anything but OL until we have a line that is considered serviceable. It's irrelevant how good the receivers are if the QB has no time to find them.I was fine with WMD because I'm always fine drafting edge rushers, especially with Lawson's status. I think WMD is going to be a very good player for us. But in retrospect, I wish we had JSN. As much fun as I have watching the defense, I'm at the point where the Jets should draft almost anyone on offense over almost anyone on defense. Though I think I still prefer having WMD to Michael Mayer (and I think Mayer can still be good).
Post by: Johnny English on November 06, 2023, 11:13:59 PM
I was fine with WMD because I'm always fine drafting edge rushers, especially with Lawson's status. I think WMD is going to be a very good player for us. But in retrospect, I wish we had JSN. As much fun as I have watching the defense, I'm at the point where the Jets should draft almost anyone on offense over almost anyone on defense. Though I think I still prefer having WMD to Michael Mayer (and I think Mayer can still be good).I don't believe I stuttered.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 06, 2023, 11:15:45 PM
I was fine with WMD because I'm always fine drafting edge rushers, especially with Lawson's status. I think WMD is going to be a very good player for us. But in retrospect, I wish we had JSN. As much fun as I have watching the defense, I'm at the point where the Jets should draft almost anyone on offense over almost anyone on defense. Though I think I still prefer having WMD to Michael Mayer (and I think Mayer can still be good).
You keep making this argument for JSN. He isn’t good.
If you wanted a receiver, at least say Jordan Addison.
But like JE said, a WR isn’t doing excrement in this offense if we can’t pass protect.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 06, 2023, 11:16:37 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2023, 11:32:36 PM
You keep making this argument for JSN. He isn’t good.
If you wanted a receiver, at least say Jordan Addison.
But like JE said, a WR isn’t doing excrement in this offense if we can’t pass protect.
Wistful boner #H2P
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2023, 11:37:22 PM
You keep making this argument for JSN. He isn’t good.I say JSN because he would have been my choice in that spot. Way too early to say how good he is. Sure, Addison looks better right now. We also could have taken Quentin Johnston (who looks bad so far) and Zay Flowers (who looks pretty good so far).
If you wanted a receiver, at least say Jordan Addison.
But like JE said, a WR isn’t doing excrement in this offense if we can’t pass protect.
Everyone on the board agrees OL is the biggest problem, but there are other problems we can address to try to create big plays for us. Give us another option besides 2 UDFAs, Lazard and Malik Taylor. Besides Garrett Wilson, this unit is almost at Jermaine Kearse-Deontay Burnett levels. Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall still make some big plays for us. Out next option for explosive plays is basically Lazard on jump ball deep balls where he doesn't jump, and a UDFA in Gipson who I like, but that's a lot of faith to put in a guy you didn't think was good enough to draft 7 months ago.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on November 07, 2023, 04:54:38 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 06:51:16 AM
Post by: reuben on November 07, 2023, 07:33:35 AM
I think we should draft a WR and look for several OL in free agency. Haven't checked yet who will become available, but we can get immediate production from rookie WRs and it's probably be harder for rookie OLs. Our "window" (if we do have one) will close next year as we will have to reset at QB when Rodgers retires and start paying our great young players. We have to bet it all on next year.
We need to draft quality offensive linemen, because quality OL free agents want no part of playing in this mess. There's a reason Alan Faneca was willing to come play between Brick and Nick, and there's a reason Joe Thuney let our calls go straight to voicemail.
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 07:36:17 AM
We need to draft quality offensive linemen, because quality OL free agents want no part of playing in this mess. There's a reason Alan Faneca was willing to come play between Brick and Nick, and there's a reason Joe Thuney let our calls go straight to voicemail.
Joe Thuney saw enough of Sam Darnold when Thuney was in NWE that he knew he had no chance of a ring if he signed here at the time. I would've gone to play for Andy Reid too.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 07, 2023, 07:58:41 AM
Watching a rookie QB from an elite QB factory like Ohio St breaking NFL rookie records yesterday....and Josh Dobbs getting off a plane and engineering (see what i did there?) a comeback road win before he unpacked his bags got me thinking. We should probably stop making excuses for Zach Wilson.
THIS. RIGHT. HERE.
Our OL is bad...but far from the worst. BUT we have the WORST offense in the NFL and it's not close. So then it falls on QB and coaching.
I don't see how we dig ourselves out of this.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
THIS. RIGHT. HERE.
Our OL is bad...but far from the worst. BUT we have the WORST offense in the NFL and it's not close. So then it falls on QB and coaching.
I don't see how we dig ourselves out of this.
Our OL is bottom 5 if not bottom 2
It is not far from the worst, it is very close to the worst
Post by: bojanglesman on November 07, 2023, 08:01:31 AM
THIS. RIGHT. HERE.
Our OL is bad...but far from the worst. BUT we have the WORST offense in the NFL and it's not close. So then it falls on QB and coaching.
I don't see how we dig ourselves out of this.
You sure our OL is far from the worst? It's pretty freaking bad.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2023, 08:04:12 AM
Billy Turner made sure of that.
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 08:05:39 AM
That OL that we rolled out there last night is the worst in the league.
Billy Turner made sure of that.
OhhBilly.gif
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 08:10:11 AM
Post by: Coach K on November 07, 2023, 08:53:13 AM
Watching a rookie QB from an elite QB factory like Ohio St breaking NFL rookie records yesterday....and Josh Dobbs getting off a plane and engineering (see what i did there?) a comeback road win before he unpacked his bags got me thinking. We should probably stop making excuses for Zach Wilson.Yeah the OL is atrocious but most of those sacks he held onto the ball over 4.0 sec
I think we're in danger of losing the locker room. This is just a mirror of last yr where zach has teased us with being a possible game manager.
WRs suck but it's all a mess at this ppint .
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 08:57:15 AM
Yeah the OL is atrocious but most of those sacks he held onto the ball over 4.0 secThe oline stinks
I think we're in danger of losing the locker room. This is just a mirror of last yr where zach has teased us with being a possible game manager.
WRs suck but it's all a mess at this ppint .
Zach stinks
Both can be true
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 08:59:25 AM
That OL that we rolled out there last night is the worst in the league.
Billy Turner made sure of that.
It didn’t help that we had to go against Mack and Bosa
That had disaster written all over it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 09:11:55 AM
Post by: Coach K on November 07, 2023, 09:12:43 AM
The oline stinksThat's what I'm saying lol . Most qbs gonna get sacked holding it over 4 sec
Zach stinks
Both can be true
I've judt come to accept this season is over unless they decide to resemble a competent offense moving forward
We've gotten no evidence to prove that'll happen
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 09:19:03 AM
Imagine if we lose the locker room and Saleh gets fired. What does 8 do at that point? Lobby to have Hackett promoted to HC?
There are 3 concrete reasons why the offense stinks (in random order)
Zach
oline
Rodgers' friendship network
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 09:22:18 AM
Post by: Coach K on November 07, 2023, 09:23:33 AM
Also heard Brissett was available for peanuts. Should've made the move.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 09:24:10 AM
Welcome to reality, everyone. Not sure what happened on this board last week.
Lmao literally nothing has changed
Last week Zach was bad, the OL got destroyed, and Lazard was the worst player on the field. Same thing this week
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 09:24:40 AM
I have no critical thinking skills so I will watch this and say Zach suxxx
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 09:26:28 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 09:27:38 AM
Everyone agrees the OL sucks but Zach also sucks. That's how you score 8 touchdowns in 8 weeks.
I agree with this. fml.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 09:28:38 AM
Everyone agrees the OL sucks but Zach also sucks. That's how you score 8 touchdowns in 8 weeks.
WRs and TEs and RBs are good tho
Same conversation every week
Post by: Miamipuck on November 07, 2023, 09:33:30 AM
They played an objectively bad defense last night and that defense looked like the 85 Bears. When and where do we just say he isn't good? You can do all this Zach Suxx stuff- if we had a competent QB and this defense was facing aQB with his numbers - you would literally be laughing your derriere off.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 07, 2023, 09:35:32 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 07, 2023, 09:38:12 AM
Zach did not play well yesterday, but the OL was an abortion.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 09:38:17 AM
Jesus FC SFD, enough the kid is not good. You can show literally 10 plays where the offense did Zach no favors, there is no doubt. I can also show you 25 plus plays where he excrement the bed, dirted the ball, missed a throw, missed a wide open player held the ball too long etc. Etc.
They played an objectively bad defense last night and that defense looked like the 85 Bears. When and where do we just say he isn't good? You can do all this Zach Suxx stuff- if we had a competent QB and this defense was facing aQB with his numbers - you would literally be laughing your derriere off.
This ratio of 10 to 25 plays is way off. Lazard had what, 4,5 by himself?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 09:38:50 AM
The only question about Zach at this point is do you keep him as the backup next year, or trade him for a conditional 2029 7th rounder?
See yourself out lol
Post by: Coach K on November 07, 2023, 09:44:01 AM
This is de ja vu of last yr cept zach has teased us with progression
He can't progress when the OL and skill players don't hold up their end of the bargain
Again this is the same excrement . Bad play all around. Zach makes a good throw it gets dropped
Someone gets open and zach stares down his primary read
When the OL isn't getting crushed and actually gives zacu time he Just pats the ball and looks lost
This offense is just plain bad from personnel to coaching.
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 09:47:36 AM
He stinks, but he's also this team's best chance to win in 2023. \
Get ready to bend over for the rest of the season.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 09:48:18 AM
Averaging 226 passing yards a game
Completing 63% of his passes
Only 1 interception
83.9 QB rating
I would say that’s pretty much as good as I would have hoped for the kid and that it should be enough to keep the offense afloat. The problem is that, along with Zach, the rest of the Offensive unit STINKS. Our OL is a disaster. Breece Hall doesn’t show up outside of a long TD every couple weeks, because the OL stinks. Opposing defensive coordinators can triple GW and call it a day. Lazard is freaking terrible and our next best options after him are Cobb/Gipson with 3 catches each!! Insane to think about
Zach Wilson isn’t good enough to overcome that. Not sure what else people are expecting
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 09:51:11 AM
Zach Wilson isn’t good enough to overcome that. Not sure what else people are expecting
To be really honest, my expectations evaporated 4 plays into the regular season.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 07, 2023, 09:51:29 AM
But not keeping him after this season has to be debated
Either cut him loss or carry 3 QB's next year
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 09:51:51 AM
This offense is just plain bad from personnel to coaching.
Ultimately this is the issue. There is no one player that would fix this offense. Boyle and Siemian would be struggling to stay upright behind the same Swiss cheese offensive line while waiting for routes to develop with WRs who struggle to get consistent separation, and Adams/Evans would likely be frustrated as he finally gets open only to see his QB either hesitate with the throw or get planted.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 09:53:16 AM
I don't think there's any scenario where Zach gets benched this year
But not keeping him after this season has to be debated
Either cut him loss or carry 3 QB's next year
We declined Zach’s 5th year option
Thank you for your contribution to the board today
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 09:54:03 AM
Not sure what else people are expecting
That after 5 seasons with our current GM building the team we would have a roster that wouldn't put us in that exact position.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 07, 2023, 09:54:57 AM
We declined Zach’s 5th year option
Thank you for your contribution to the board today
Did we decline the 4th year of his rookie contract too?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 09:55:05 AM
We declined Zach’s 5th year option
Thank you for your contribution to the board today
Where have you seen that? They're not even in the window to make that decision.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 10:07:29 AM
Holds the ball for <2.5sec: 20-22 6ypa 0 sacks
Holds the ball for >2.5sec: 12/25 1.9ypa 8 sacks
Post by: Coach K on November 07, 2023, 10:15:49 AM
Zach Wilson last night:Yeah I saw that and that's when it's clear everyone sucks
Holds the ball for <2.5sec: 20-22 6ypa 0 sacks
Holds the ball for >2.5sec: 12/25 1.9ypa 8 sacks
I'd argue hes holding onto it during most Plays where nobody gets separation lol
It's like having 3 holes in separate parts of a boat and trying to blame a leak on one hole
It's all a mess
Marty Huggins is gonna bring his broom to The Jets Offensive Coaching staff.
Because its a mess
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 10:21:12 AM
Did we decline the 4th year of his rookie contract too?
You’re the cap expert
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 11:22:45 AM
If we're benching Zach, that's waiving the white flag on the season. It's not happening.Benching Zach isn't waving the white flag on the season. It's waiving the white flag on Zach.
He stinks, but he's also this team's best chance to win in 2023. \
Get ready to bend over for the rest of the season.
I'm not clamoring to bench Zach yet because I think we know Boyle and Siemian are bad (but I'm close). But we also probably know Zach is bad. How do we know Boyle and Siemian are worse? Mike White was a clear upgrade last season when he was healthy, and he's clearly an NFL backup. Over the last 3 seasons, Zach has been the worst QB in the NFL out of guys who have gotten regular playing time. There have been worse quarterbacks who get spot starts here and there, but they get benched.
We're getting to the point where we have to change something. Yes, the offensive line is a disaster and will derail most offenses. But this offense is even less productive than the offense last year where we fired the offensive coordinator and benched the quarterback.
The coaching even tried to run tempo this week. Last week, some people here were saying that he was really good in the 2-minute drill and no huddle. So we ran more no huddle, and the offense was still miserable.
It all just sucks. It's the same story as last season. And it's hard to hold people accountable because many of the worst offenders this season are Aaron's guys.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 11:28:42 AM
-Sign someone other than Aaron Rodgers' film room buddy to be the #2 QB behind Rodgers
-Send Wilson to the #3 spot
-Commit to keeping 3 QBs on the roster
I'm not really seeing anyone currently occupying that 53rd roster spot that is actually worth more than a PS player we can elevate for 3 games.
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 07, 2023, 11:46:37 AM
If we wanted to actually let Wilson have a shot at learning from the bench then what should have happened is
-Sign someone other than Aaron Rodgers' film room buddy to be the #2 QB behind Rodgers
-Send Wilson to the #3 spot
-Commit to keeping 3 QBs on the roster
I'm not really seeing anyone currently occupying that 53rd roster spot that is actually worth more than a PS player we can elevate for 3 games.
aka the 'we should have re-signed mike white' plan
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 11:49:16 AM
aka the 'we should have re-signed mike white' plan
That was certainly an option I would have been OK with but there were better options out there as well.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 12:03:45 PM
- 2 by Mike White
- 1 by Josh Johnson
- 1 by Joe Flacco
There have been 8 300-yard passing games
- 3 by Mike White
- 2 by Joe Flacco
- 2 by Zach Wilson
- 1 by Josh Johnson
How do we know he's better than Boyle and Siemian?
Post by: Jumbo on November 07, 2023, 12:26:13 PM
Since Zach was drafted, there have been 4 games where Jets quarterbacks have thrown for 3 touchdowns in a game.
- 2 by Mike White
- 1 by Josh Johnson
- 1 by Joe Flacco
There have been 8 300-yard passing games
- 3 by Mike White
- 2 by Joe Flacco
- 2 by Zach Wilson
- 1 by Josh Johnson
How do we know he's better than Boyle and Siemian?
Our offensive touchdowns the last 4 weeks:
Chargers - none
Giants - one yard pass to Breece with 50 YAC
Eagles - Eagles purposely allow Breece Hall to score off an interception that gets us within the 10 yard line.
Broncos - 72 yard run by Breece
I would literally take a random bum off the street and try them at this point. How much more anemic can the offense even get?
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 12:39:48 PM
I've seen him with 2 different OCs (which is what I asked for after suffering through MLF). I've seen enough.
He's not 100% to blame, the offence in itself is brutal, but he isn't the solution either.
I will root for him for the rest of the season because i still love the jets (i'm retarded), but thinking he has any future with this team is just naive.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 07, 2023, 12:46:10 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2023, 12:49:22 PM
Watching no names like Dobbs and Bagent have success running an NFL offense makes me jealous...this is the life of a Jets fan
Tyson Bagent is horrendous. He's no better than Zach.
Josh Dobbs would be an upgrade.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 07, 2023, 12:50:11 PM
We didn't run a hurry up/2-minute-drill offense. We did run no huddle for a bit. The problem was Zach's wasting 30 seconds looking around and then calling out a new play, almost always the wrong one. He negates any benefit of hurry up by not actually hurrying.
Post by: Coach K on November 07, 2023, 12:54:17 PM
I won't write a paragraph but just heard the stat of Zach averaging like 0.6 td per game in his 30 starts
Semen has like twice that lol
I think he gets 2 more weeks and if he's not functional we lose the locker room
This is literal South Park Vinderloop of last yr
We can't get new WRs or OL or an OC mid year but if this keeps up you do have to visit another option
I've mostly defended him because the whole offense is an embarrassing excrement show aside from Hall and Garrett
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2023, 01:01:17 PM
I won't write a paragraph
And yet you still did
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 07, 2023, 01:25:39 PM
Tyson Bagent is horrendous. He's no better than Zach.
Josh Dobbs would be an upgrade.
This right here says it all.
And yet, he's got 3 TD in 3 games.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 01:31:53 PM
Lolol
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 02:07:47 PM
https://x.com/ellison_utes/status/1721760269108707598?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Lolol
Those kids are fucked.
Post by: Jumbo on November 07, 2023, 02:21:10 PM
https://x.com/ellison_utes/status/1721760269108707598?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Lolol
Aikman first three years, ANY/A+: 72, 81, 109, and after his second year he was above average every year except his last
Wilson first three years, ANY/A+: 70, 84, 77
Aikman's third year he was a Pro Bowler with 11 TD and 10 INT. It was a different NFL. Yet compared to his peers he was, by the point Zach is at, significantly above average already. Zach can't throw a touchdown against the worst passing defense in the entire NFL.
Post by: Coach K on November 07, 2023, 04:43:56 PM
And yet you still didAwww you'll be ok .
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 04:46:51 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 07, 2023, 06:01:40 PM
but from what i saw, one of the more disconcerting things he's shown us over the past two weeks is the propensity to hold on to the ball for an eternity again, and run backwards for huge losses for no reason. i almost wish he'd swallow the sack as it arrives if that's the case, or take the intentional grounding where we'd lose the downs and 10 yards anyways, which may actually put us in a better spot than him running ~12-15 yards behind the LOS prior to the sack.
i've never seen somebody absorb sacks for huge losses the way he does.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 06:06:09 PM
i know there are a ton of issues beyond zach. i was at work and couldn't even watch the game completely, and will need to watch again.It definitely looks like he's about to backslide again.
but from what i saw, one of the more disconcerting things he's shown us over the past two weeks is the propensity to hold on to the ball for an eternity again, and run backwards for huge losses for no reason. i almost wish he'd swallow the sack as it arrives if that's the case, or take the intentional grounding where we'd lose the downs and 10 yards anyways, which may actually put us in a better spot than him running ~12-15 yards behind the LOS prior to the sack.
i've never seen somebody absorb sacks for huge losses the way he does.
He's not stable enough.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 06:06:35 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on November 07, 2023, 07:55:27 PM
Allan Lazard might be the wide receiver version of Wayne Hunter, he's freaking God awful in every way,
I know we all love Garrett and for good reason (and the block in the back call was ticky tack), but he's out here as the clear cut number one dropping passes and fumbling the football.
We all love Breece. Had he caught the pitch on third and short (an awful play call by the way), he might still be running as he had blocking up front. Having said that, the propensity of Hackett to go to the shotgun on third and short is one of the many things that's maddening about his offense.
You've all chronicled the offensive line, no need to beat a dead horse.
Zach holds onto the ball too long (like most quarterbacks if you watch game around the league), he missed Ozumah on an out, and he missed Garrett bad trying to force the ball to him on a slant. Otherwise, he had no shot whatsoever last night. No way Trevor Simien is any better.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 09:28:47 PM
I don't understand how anyone could watch last nights game and come away thinking Zach had anything resembling a chance or was the biggest problem on the team.I agree the OL was worse than Zach was last night, but in general, Zach has been bad all season and the offense has done nothing all season. Most of the sacks were more on the OL than the QB, but it doesn't change the fact that he's been almost as bad as he was last year when he got benched. He's just better with the media.
Allan Lazard might be the wide receiver version of Wayne Hunter, he's freaking God awful in every way,
I know we all love Garrett and for good reason (and the block in the back call was ticky tack), but he's out here as the clear cut number one dropping passes and fumbling the football.
We all love Breece. Had he caught the pitch on third and short (an awful play call by the way), he might still be running as he had blocking up front. Having said that, the propensity of Hackett to go to the shotgun on third and short is one of the many things that's maddening about his offense.
You've all chronicled the offensive line, no need to beat a dead horse.
Zach holds onto the ball too long (like most quarterbacks if you watch game around the league), he missed Ozumah on an out, and he missed Garrett bad trying to force the ball to him on a slant. Otherwise, he had no shot whatsoever last night. No way Trevor Simien is any better.
Post by: insanity on November 08, 2023, 10:20:41 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/17qdwyi/a_list_of_the_jets_drive_killers_from_nysportsdan/
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 08, 2023, 10:38:58 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 08, 2023, 12:22:21 PM
The problem is that a 5-yard penalty or one drop is a "drive killer." Good offenses can overcome those. Average offenses sometimes overcome them. It's like if the Jets make one mistake by anyone other than Zach, it is insurmountable.
We’re not a good offense though, we’ve established that. Either the mistakes above literally killed the drive, or the next play was a run that got stuffed, instant pressure given up by the OL or a pass play with maybe 1 guy that can get open. And all of that is before Zach even has the opportunity to freak up.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 08, 2023, 04:21:52 PM
I pledge to work on being a better Jets fan in return
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 08, 2023, 04:37:50 PM
https://x.com/snyjets/status/1722365107181597049?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I pledge to work on being a better Jets fan in return
he is a very likable kid and has shown a complete 180 to the mentality he showed after the second pats loss last year. it's hard for me to get mad at him. he just has very concerning aspects to his game.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 08, 2023, 05:44:56 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 08, 2023, 06:04:45 PM
https://x.com/snyjets/status/1722365107181597049?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I pledge to work on being a better Jets fan in return
This is the reason I still haven't turned on him. He's seemingly unable to get to the point where he can lift the team, but he's a completely different person than he was last year and has shown legit maturity.
I don't want to see Boyle or Siemien anyway, but I'm still pulling for him regardless. I just wish we had a decent OL to give him and Breece and Garrett a better chance.
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 08, 2023, 06:23:13 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 08, 2023, 07:14:41 PM
if the OL stops freaking around, the WRs / RBs stop dropping excrement, and we can avoid the dumb penalties, i think it's worth a shot to see what a different QB like siemian can do for us to shake things up. we've gotten surprising results from JAGs like josh johnson and mike white in the recent past.
If the OL stops freaking around, the WRs / RBs stop dropping excrement, and we can avoid the dumb penalties, then Zach will win us some games.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 08, 2023, 08:43:52 PM
If the OL stops freaking around, the WRs / RBs stop dropping excrement, and we can avoid the dumb penalties, then Zach will win us some games.
Why does everyone have to do their jobs just for Zach to perform?
Post by: steves850 on November 08, 2023, 08:48:50 PM
Why does everyone have to do their jobs just for Zach to perform?Is this a legitimate question? I’ll bite:
It’s hard for a QB to protect himself, pass the ball, catch the ball, and run for a first down all by his lonesome.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 08, 2023, 09:04:25 PM
Why does everyone have to do their jobs just for Zach to perform?
Because Zach Wilson isn't talented enough to lift this team up beyond it's faults.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 08, 2023, 09:36:00 PM
Is this a legitimate question? I’ll bite:
It’s hard for a QB to protect himself, pass the ball, catch the ball, and run for a first down all by his lonesome.
So your opinion is that everyone else needs to do the minimum they get paid for just to give him any chance he might be able to use whatever natural-born abilities he has to do simple things like not get blindside sacked, or throw to receivers who catch balls that hit them in the facemask?
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 08, 2023, 09:41:20 PM
Because Zach Wilson isn't talented enough to lift this team up beyond it's faults.
Zach not being an android built from the best parts of Montana, Manning, and Brady is really frustrating. He was a #2 pick, you know.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 08, 2023, 10:18:17 PM
If the OL stops freaking around, the WRs / RBs stop dropping excrement, and we can avoid the dumb penalties, then Zach will win us some games.Would he win us more games than Boyle or Siemian? I honestly don't know. Both those guys almost certainly suck. But if we are treating Zach as a backup QB and not QB of the Future, he would be on a short leash.
If we had brought back Mike White, he would be starting next week. It would be irresponsible not to try it. Siemian and Boyle are so low rung that they probably aren't upgrades, so Zach has a longer leash. But at some point, you have to try something.
Post by: MBGreen on November 09, 2023, 07:25:21 AM
Would he win us more games than Boyle or Siemian? I honestly don't know. Both those guys almost certainly suck. But if we are treating Zach as a backup QB and not QB of the Future, he would be on a short leash.
If we had brought back Mike White, he would be starting next week. It would be irresponsible not to try it. Siemian and Boyle are so low rung that they probably aren't upgrades, so Zach has a longer leash. But at some point, you have to try something.
I'm convinced if we get blown out by the Raiders...there will either be significant changes or the staff will lose the locker room.
And before anyone says this is "too negative".... Our offense can't score touchdowns. Change my mind.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 09, 2023, 08:37:47 AM
there will either be significant changes
Firing an assistant or two is not significant
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 09, 2023, 09:04:20 AM
But benchings have to be on the table. Cobb was an "injury" scratch already, but that felt like more of a "writing on the wall" thing. Lazard and the tight ends have to be next on the list. I'd say the OL but there aren't enough warm bodies to bench anyone.
Unless Zach starts throwing multiple picks in a game I don't see him getting benched. If Boyle or Siemien had shown anything in practice to make the staff believe they stood a better chance, I think we'd have seen a change by now--or at least heard some rumblings. <insert comment re: roster mgmt here>
Post by: MBGreen on November 09, 2023, 09:48:25 AM
Firing an assistant or two is not significant
i was referring to an in-season QB change. Nobody is getting fired while Rodgers still breathes.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 09, 2023, 10:37:21 AM
i was referring to an in-season QB change. Nobody is getting fired while Rodgers still breathes.
Having the team being held hostage by the owner and the IR QB is kinda fun.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 09, 2023, 01:52:00 PM
Why not leave another one of these here?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 09, 2023, 02:11:08 PM
https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/status/1722617033823535515 (https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/status/1722617033823535515)Yeah, I'm anti-Lazard, but Garrett and Breece alone give us a solid floor of skill player talent.
Why not leave another one of these here?
Post by: MBGreen on November 09, 2023, 02:21:45 PM
Having the team being held hostage by the owner and the IR QB is kinda fun.
This became apparent as i was watching Rodgers limp off the field in week 1.
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 09, 2023, 07:25:20 PM
https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/status/1722617033823535515 (https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/status/1722617033823535515)
Why not leave another one of these here?
this is what i've wanted to try and figure out but i have not yet been able to watch the game in full, and some of you here suggested that i skip it
he seems to be holding on to the ball for an eternity again. is this because there is nothing out there, or is he reverting to what he showed us last year, where guys were open but he was just not able to 'see' them?
during the stretch where he played like a league average backup, one of the more reassuring things he showed us was the ability to bail out to his checkdown RB/TE option in the face of a collapsing pocket and oncoming rush. it was great to see. i feel like he missed this a few times in the giants game. i don't know if this was what occurred against the chargers.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 09, 2023, 07:32:16 PM
this is what i've wanted to try and figure out but i have not yet been able to watch the game in full, and some of you here suggested that i skip itTo be fair, the defense is flying around like usual and provides some fun. The offense is miserable.
he seems to be holding on to the ball for an eternity again. is this because there is nothing out there, or is he reverting to what he showed us last year, where guys were open but he was just not able to 'see' them?
during the stretch where he played like a league average backup, one of the more reassuring things he showed us was the ability to bail out to his checkdown RB/TE option in the face of a collapsing pocket and oncoming rush. it was great to see. i feel like he missed this a few times in the giants game. i don't know if this was what occurred against the chargers.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 09, 2023, 08:04:21 PM
To be fair, the defense is flying around like usual and provides some fun. The offense is miserable.
I can't even call it miserable at this point. Miserable would mean I feel something while watching it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 09, 2023, 08:30:18 PM
I can't even call it miserable at this point. Miserable would mean I feel something while watching it.We've watched awful offenses for a long, long time. And somehow this is statistically as bad or worse than any of them.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 09, 2023, 08:50:16 PM
We've watched awful offenses for a long, long time. And somehow this is statistically as bad or worse than any of them.I'm seriously concerned that someone put together this skill group and thought we were going to compete.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 09, 2023, 09:00:48 PM
I'm seriously concerned that someone put together this skill group and thought we were going to compete.Eh. Lazard was a bad signing. He never drew targets in Green Bay. But you hoped he would help entice Rodgers and be a quality rotation receiver, blocker, and red zone threat.
Breece Hall might be a top 5 RB in the NFL. Garrett Wilson might be a top 10 WR in the NFL. The depth behind them isn't good, but when you have that as an anchor, you can compete skill-wise if you have an OL or a quarterback. We have neither. We are one GW injury away from having the worst WR group in the NFL, but if GW is healthy, a good QB could make it work.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 10, 2023, 09:04:31 AM
this is what i've wanted to try and figure out but i have not yet been able to watch the game in full, and some of you here suggested that i skip it
he seems to be holding on to the ball for an eternity again. is this because there is nothing out there, or is he reverting to what he showed us last year, where guys were open but he was just not able to 'see' them?
during the stretch where he played like a league average backup, one of the more reassuring things he showed us was the ability to bail out to his checkdown RB/TE option in the face of a collapsing pocket and oncoming rush. it was great to see. i feel like he missed this a few times in the giants game. i don't know if this was what occurred against the chargers.
https://x.com/throwthedamball/status/1720036278647832666?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
https://x.com/throwthedamball/status/1722437181367570789?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 10, 2023, 09:56:04 AM
Quote
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/17s57y4/pressure_and_zach_wilson_pff_premium_stats/
Zach Wilson has been under a bunch of pressure as a passer this season, but how much pressure, and how has he performed compared to other QBs when pressured and when kept clean? NB. Where rankings are listed, I have only considered the 33 QBs with over 150 dropbacks.
UNDER PRESSURE (43.3% of dropbacks: 3rd-most in the league)
Completion rate = 44.7% (26th of 33)
YPA = 4.5 (29/33)
TDs = 0 (T33/33)
INT = 1 (T3/33)
ADOT = 7.8 (T31/33)
Adjusted completion rate (subtract throwaways and drops) = 65.8% (16/33)
Sacks = 31 (32/33)
NFL passer rating = 53.8 (25/33)
KEPT CLEAN
Completion rate = 68.2% (29/33)
YPA = 6.8 (26/33)
TDs = 5 (T23/33)
INT = 4 (T18/33)
ADOT = 7.8 (T11/33)
Adj. completion rate = 75.3% (T29/33)
Sacks = 0 (T1/33 - only 3 QBs have been sacked while kept clean, all once each)
NFL passer rating = 87.2 (29/33)
his "kept clean" rankings seem really low, esp comp pct
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 10, 2023, 10:03:23 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 10, 2023, 12:14:36 PM
Interesting how most of his INTs come from clean pockets.
Are they clean because the defense dropped extra coverage, leaving fewer pass rushers for the OL to block and creating more double-teams? It feels like any time ZW throws to GW and it's not along the sideline, he's throwing into double or triple coverage.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 10, 2023, 12:56:41 PM
Are they clean because the defense dropped extra coverage, leaving fewer pass rushers for the OL to block and creating more double-teams? It feels like any time ZW throws to GW and it's not along the sideline, he's throwing into double or triple coverage.
I think it just means he’s dumb.
Post by: MBGreen on November 11, 2023, 06:11:28 PM
Gonna be "Zach or die" for the duration of the season.
Post by: Jumbo on November 11, 2023, 06:43:43 PM
https://twitter.com/DMRussini/status/1723485902435950661?t=6qqhKiCG27uayBvMiavYyQ&s=19
Gonna be "Zach or die" for the duration of the season.
(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.697365093.1264/flat,1000x1000,075,f.u2.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on November 11, 2023, 06:47:06 PM
(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.697365093.1264/flat,1000x1000,075,f.u2.jpg)I lol'd
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 11, 2023, 08:55:24 PM
I think we all would have signed up for 4 picks through 8 games for Zach. Fumbles have been a bigger issue this year.
Post by: Coach K on November 12, 2023, 10:10:10 AM
1 in the last 4 games .
I dont care if we see INTs fumbles or whatever . Can we please find the freaking end zone .
A special F U to Uzomah for dropping the gimme td pass last week
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 12, 2023, 10:51:31 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 12, 2023, 10:58:02 AM
Why does Zach Wilson want us to die?You're 2 years late on this question
Post by: bojanglesman on November 12, 2023, 01:58:51 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 12, 2023, 04:32:59 PM
#SomeoneElse'sFault
Post by: reuben on November 12, 2023, 05:18:32 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1723792785890013342?t=gtPrf1gRzEdGynKTjGRRUA&s=19
#SomeoneElse'sFault
I might not watch tonight. Jets-SZNal affective disorder is settling in, might need to focus on my macramé instead.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 13, 2023, 07:25:50 AM
Dalvin Cook
Allen Lazard
CJ Uzomah
I don’t see anyone on this offense being held accountable.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 13, 2023, 07:28:43 AM
Peter King claims it’s time to bench Zach Wilson. His reasoning is that if any other player on the roster was playing at his level, they’d be benched.
Dalvin Cook
Allen Lazard
CJ Uzomah
I don’t see anyone on this offense being held accountable.
There is no reason to bench Zach because no one behind him is any better and he hasn't lost confidence like last year. He contributed to the loss, but he made plenty of plays that kept us in it too. It's like replacing a tire with a slow leak on a car with no engine.
Post by: MBGreen on November 13, 2023, 07:37:12 AM
Peter King claims it’s time to bench Zach Wilson. His reasoning is that if any other player on the roster was playing at his level, they’d be benched.
Dalvin Cook
Allen Lazard
CJ Uzomah
I don’t see anyone on this offense being held accountable.
There's no value in benching Zach because the rest of the QB room doesn't move the needle either.
Joe Douglas should've traded for a real, temp solution after Rodgers went down. I've defended him on most fronts, but i don't know what his mindset is on this. Are we not trying to win?
Saleh being so rigid on not adjusting the offense is baffling too.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2023, 07:53:43 AM
There is no reason to bench Zach because no one behind him is any better and he hasn't lost confidence like last year. He contributed to the loss, but he made plenty of plays that kept us in it too. It's like replacing a tire with a slow leak on a car with no engine.
Basically this. What does replacing Zach accomplish, other than saying to everyone "Yeah, we know this offense sucks so we'll make a token change that will do nothing to appease the masses who want a blood sacrifice."
Like H said, no one on this offense is being held accountable. Uzomah should be a healthy scratch next week. Not just not starting, but sitting with Cobb in street clothes.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2023, 12:12:48 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 13, 2023, 12:20:44 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2023, 12:28:44 PM
It's depressing that we can get a good Zach performance and still lose to the Raiders and not score a touchdown.
We scored a TD in a universe where CJ Uzomah doesn’t exist
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 14, 2023, 01:43:33 PM
Interesting, not gonna find many of these graphs with Zach next to the good QBs
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 14, 2023, 01:49:12 PM
1) Pick to Spillane
2) Fumble (https://x.com/fb_filmanalysis/status/1723908313786544519?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg)
3) deep miss to open Lazard
4) intentional grounding which killed a drive. Don’t have a clip on this one but Maxx Crosby beat Max Mitchell immediately and was on Zach before he even completed his drop. Only other likely outcome here is a sack.
Anything else significant?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 14, 2023, 01:53:58 PM
4) intentional grounding which killed a drive. Don’t have a clip on this one but Maxx Crosby beat Max Mitchell immediately and was on Zach before he even completed his drop. Only other likely outcome here is a sack.
intentional grounding was best case scenario here
Post by: bojanglesman on November 15, 2023, 09:19:12 AM
https://x.com/Dr_Smay21/status/1724196042671817200?s=20
Post by: reuben on November 15, 2023, 01:41:46 PM
I knew Zach was gettin got on one of these bullshit plots sooner or later.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 15, 2023, 01:44:27 PM
These dorks have gone too far
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 15, 2023, 02:29:42 PM
Post by: Badger on November 15, 2023, 02:32:58 PM
QB Destroy RateQB pronebone frequency (QBPBF)
These dorks have gone too far
Post by: Heismanberg on November 15, 2023, 02:38:40 PM
He’s obviously playing much, much better, but I was surprised to read today that Trevor Lawrence has 257 more passing yards and 4 more passing TDs than Zach Wilson on the season.
lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 15, 2023, 08:00:33 PM
He’s obviously playing much, much better, but I was surprised to read today that Trevor Lawrence has 257 more passing yards and 4 more passing TDs than Zach Wilson on the season.Lawrence has low key done very little this season.
Post by: Jumbo on November 15, 2023, 11:37:59 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 19, 2023, 07:54:43 PM
Zach Wilson: 0
Tommy "I live at home with my mom" DeVito: 1
Post by: Coach K on November 19, 2023, 08:12:43 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 19, 2023, 08:13:56 PM
Career games with 3 passing TD's
Zach Wilson: 0
Tommy "I live at home with my mom" DeVito: 1
This is such a pointless thing to get hung up on.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 19, 2023, 08:14:12 PM
TLaw is definitely not generational as advertised.
Yes, he is.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 19, 2023, 08:17:05 PM
This is such a pointless thing to get hung up on.It's more of a general sign that the offense has been miserable for 3 years now with Zach and is seemingly getting worse. Bad QBs luck into 3-TD games. Zach never has.
Today was the first time with Zach that the backup didn't look just as good or better. Boyle at least was decisive, but that doesn't mean he's an upgrade.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 19, 2023, 08:18:24 PM
This is such a pointless thing to get hung up on.
I don't think it is. I'm trying to illustrate that even the bottom of the barrel QBs who were stocking shelves at Whole Foods at the beginning of the season still manage to find success and score some points... specifically throw for 3 TDs.
The real question, that will not get answered is, does ANYONE truly believe that Zach can throw for 3 TDs against this same Washington team? I, for one, do not.
Post by: Coach K on November 19, 2023, 08:52:45 PM
Doesn't require explaining why that's inexcusable (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231120/4e4986796ae95f2695bbd5e6433b4096.jpg)
Excuse the pic quality I took a pic of my projector in my living room with my phone
But it explains enough
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 19, 2023, 08:54:28 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 19, 2023, 08:56:17 PM
Saleh mentioned that Boyle was decisive and got the ball put quickly. I wonder if that is enough to give him the job next week.
That was definitely a change between the two of them. Didn't make too much of a difference.
Post by: insanity on November 19, 2023, 08:57:18 PM
This has to be the play that got him benched. Zach took a sack on this play
Doesn't require explaining why that's inexcusable (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231120/4e4986796ae95f2695bbd5e6433b4096.jpg)
Excuse the pic quality I took a pic of my projector in my living room with my phone
But it explains enough
Is not throwing this actually egregious? If we push the ball down field regularly I'd say yes, but the CBS were just waiting on short throws.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 19, 2023, 09:00:37 PM
That’s probably read 3 or 4 considering where he’s looking
Post by: Coach K on November 19, 2023, 09:29:31 PM
I suppose Coach K wants him to hit Gipson thereGod forbid in year 3 he can move beyond a 2nd read
That’s probably read 3 or 4 considering where he’s looking
I'll place majority of the blame on the OL and WRs but c mon man
It's a moot point ultimately because Zach is likely done here and half the OL and WRs aren't worth keeping
But is it insane to expect him to perform whe he does have a plays where the other two units aren't useless ?
Let's be real if JD did his freaking job and didn't quadruple down on Wilson and we made a move for someone else like we all agreed we should've
Hed have been pulled sooner .
Me critiquing Hackett or the rest of the offense happens regularly . I've been a pretty fair supporter of the kid all things considered
But he deserves criticism himself at this stage of his career
And we all agree the offense isn't SOLELY his fault
Otherwise Boyle wouldn't have looked exactly like wilson minus the decent pre snap line calls he made lol
Post by: Coach K on November 19, 2023, 09:37:00 PM
Wish Hackett had half a brain and called more rollouts
There's a lot going on and it's not all on him. But im not gonna make excuses for every thing he does.
Post by: Jumbo on November 19, 2023, 09:40:41 PM
Just play Siemian and save the poor kid his confidence at this point
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 19, 2023, 09:42:23 PM
No point in sending the rest of the team out on the field with Boyle at QB
Post by: Coach K on November 19, 2023, 09:51:50 PM
Why didn’t Semen play today?He better be active by Friday.
No point in sending the rest of the team out on the field with Boyle at QB
Post by: MBGreen on November 19, 2023, 09:52:30 PM
He better be active by Friday.He won't make a difference
Post by: Coach K on November 19, 2023, 09:54:03 PM
He won't make a differenceHe won't but we can't keep doing tbe same OC same QB same bullshit
Let me make this clear
I'm not even mad at Zach . This OL is so bad Rodgers probably would've gotten hurt eventually
I'm mad at JD for not giving us any other viable option to at least inspire the idea something different might work
Zach was setup for failure by not being QB3. He literally never got the Redshirt year he needed
This is stubbornness on JD for wanting to look smart
He'll SF lost the farm on their QB and moved on and cut their losses
We dug the hole deeper and when given a chance to at least supplement the QB Room he did Jack excrement lol
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 19, 2023, 09:58:00 PM
He won't make a difference
Still have to play the games unfortunately
Post by: Jumbo on November 19, 2023, 09:59:05 PM
Not to be overly results-based but you can't be making those kinds of mistakes as a GM in Year 4. There's enough he's done to balance out to maaaaybe justify keeping him past this year but if the QB situation in any facet is mismanaged again he has to go. It's been a complete clusterfuck, and he's had multiple chances to fix his mistakes, but we've just kept trotting Zach out there to die week after week. I hate how terrible he is and that we wasted the #2 overall pick on him but it's also on Joe D not getting any alternatives
Post by: MBGreen on November 19, 2023, 10:00:06 PM
He won't but we can't keep doing tbe same OC same QB same bullshitJD put all his eggs into the Rodgers basket under Woody's influence...and it blew up in their faces.He has to wear that, it may cost him his job. The season was over in week 1.
Let me make this clear
I'm not even mad at Zach . This OL is so bad Rodgers probably would've gotten hurt eventually
I'm mad at JD for not giving us any other viable option to at least inspire the idea something different might work
Zach was setup for failure by not being QB3. He literally never got the Redshirt year he needed
This is stubbornness on JD for wanting to look smart
He'll SF lost the farm on their QB and moved on and cut their losses
We dug the hole deeper and when given a chance to at least supplement the QB Room he did Jack excrement lol
Change the QB all you want...the offense is cooked. They'll probably start Zach on Friday.
Post by: MBGreen on November 19, 2023, 10:00:27 PM
Still have to play the games unfortunatelyYep
Post by: Coach K on November 19, 2023, 10:03:34 PM
JD put all his eggs into the Rodgers basket under Woody's influence...and it blew up in their faces.He has to wear that, it may cost him his job. The season was over in week 1.To me if the plan was for Wilson to learn from the sideline , it's objectively awful to leave him at QB2 behind someone Rodgers age.
Change the QB all you want...the offense is cooked. They'll probably start Zach on Friday.
Not only did he freak that up in the offseason . He doubled down once Rodgers got hurt
He then tripled down by sitting on his hands by the deadline
JD has done enough good to not burn this all to the ground
But people should be justifiably mad .
Post by: Jumbo on November 19, 2023, 10:07:17 PM
JD put all his eggs into the Rodgers basket under Woody's influence...and it blew up in their faces.He has to wear that, it may cost him his job. The season was over in week 1.
Change the QB all you want...the offense is cooked. They'll probably start Zach on Friday.
Not getting a viable backup QB was a mistake but I can kind of understand that one. Usually you don't need a backup QB for all but 4 snaps of a whole season.
The main problem is the lack of movement otherwise. That the only other move we made was to sign Siemian to the PS and leaving Boyle as the primary backup when guys like Dobbs have been available for effectively nothing throughout the year is the inexcusable part.
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2023, 06:06:03 PM
Wish he'd use his legs more
Wish Hackett had half a brain and called more rollouts
There's a lot going on and it's not all on him. But im not gonna make excuses for every thing he does.
The less important to the future of the franchise he became, the more egregious this was.
I get it when you're trying to develop him as a pocket passer, or coming off an injury scare like in preseason 2022, but at this point? freak it, let him run around. No more bubble wrap.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 06:13:22 PM
Yep .
The less important to the future of the franchise he became, the more egregious this was.
I get it when you're trying to develop him as a pocket passer, or coming off an injury scare like in preseason 2022, but at this point? freak it, let him run around. No more bubble wrap.
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2023, 04:10:03 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2023, 04:10:23 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 24, 2023, 05:05:24 PM
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2023, 05:06:16 PM
I miss himI was trying to find him on the sideline. Did they show him on TV (so Jets Twitter can analyze his facial expressions)?
Post by: Libero_2 on November 24, 2023, 05:06:52 PM
I was trying to find him on the sideline. Did they show him on TV (so Jets Twitter can analyze his facial expressions)?
Yes a couple times
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 24, 2023, 05:07:20 PM
I was trying to find him on the sideline. Did they show him on TV (so Jets Twitter can analyze his facial expressions)?
Yeah approx 10-15 shots
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2023, 05:30:24 PM
I miss him
Offer your mom up to him as tribute.
Post by: Badger on December 03, 2023, 02:32:19 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 03, 2023, 02:43:25 PM
In the past, he had guys like Joe Flacco, Josh Johnson, Chris Streveler and Mike White that made Zach look bad by comparison. Had to lower the bar.
Post by: reuben on December 03, 2023, 03:37:26 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 03, 2023, 03:40:04 PM
Flacco just drove the Browns right down the field for a touchdown.
He also threw it to wide open target - something we haven't seen since the Garrett Wilson to Allen Lazard double pass miss
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 03, 2023, 03:41:54 PM
Maybe with [insert new OC here] he can win 4 MVPs.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 03, 2023, 04:37:36 PM
Aaron Rodgers won 2 MVPs with Nate Hackett.[insert new OC here] won't likely let him do whatever he wants.
Maybe with [insert new OC here] he can win 4 MVPs.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 12:27:43 PM
lmao
fire everyone
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2023, 12:30:08 PM
https://x.com/DMRussini/status/1731741475992412520?s=20
lmao
fire everyone
I do not blame him.
Post by: Coach K on December 04, 2023, 12:53:40 PM
Go get your spark somewhere else . You can pay me for 4 more weeks and cut me in tbe offseason I'll go sit somewhere else that isn't ran by a QB who wants people to accept his God awful butt buddy who let's him do what he wants at work lol
Let the HC and GM lie in the bed they made
Post by: Coach K on December 04, 2023, 12:54:30 PM
Edit : meaning if Rodgers has qualms about anyone losing their job
Post by: Coach K on December 04, 2023, 12:55:13 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2023, 01:08:32 PM
Does anyone trust JD with a top 5 pick? Top 3 ain't happening but 4 or 5 probably will .
Not particularly, no.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 01:31:33 PM
Does anyone trust JD with a top 5 pick? Top 3 ain't happening but 4 or 5 probably will .
Sauce Gardner was a top five pick.
I think he's been fine in the first round aside from the Wilson pick.
I trust him to make the pick. I don't think he should get the chance to pick for us again though.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 01:40:11 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 01:47:03 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 01:52:35 PM
Wow. Soft if true.
lol
of course you'd feel this way
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 02:13:31 PM
lolHope he's paying you well to be his defense attorney.
of course you'd feel this way
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 04, 2023, 02:24:10 PM
I saw that during the game and was like "Damn, Zach's just laughing at everyone now."
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 04, 2023, 02:34:14 PM
Wow. Soft if true.
Lmao you’ve been saying on repeat “we have to see what we have in Tim Boyle”
Just admit it was a garbage take and take your L
Post by: reuben on December 04, 2023, 02:41:01 PM
Dear Zach,
Would you start for the NYJ?
Circle one:
Yes
No
Maybe
From Robert
P.S. I think your hair looks cool
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 04, 2023, 02:41:20 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 02:43:57 PM
Hope he's paying you well to be his defense attorney.
How is he in the wrong here?
They scapegoated him and benched him...and things got worse. He should tell them to pee off.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 02:52:03 PM
The Jets had the worst offense in the NFL with Zach, and they have the worst offense in the NFL with Boyle. Sure, Wilson is barely better. Who cares?
I'm just glad Zach is so much more improved and more mature now.
Can't believe you guys would defend a guy reportedly refusing to play football.
Also, I'm not sure how much I believe the story because it's hard to believe a guy would not want to have an opportunity to play football, so I don't want to be too critical. But if the Jets want him to play, and he refuses, he should be cut.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 02:56:32 PM
If he goes out there and continues to struggle (very likely) it could end his career. He has a chance at a fresh start as a backup (like Sam Darnold got) next year. He shouldn't jeopardize that for an eliminated team that's given up on him multiple times.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 04, 2023, 02:56:35 PM
Zach Wilson is the worst quarterback to have a significant number of starts in Jets history. He has gotten benched for poor play multiple times for good reason.
The Jets had the worst offense in the NFL with Zach, and they have the worst offense in the NFL with Boyle. Sure, Wilson is barely better. Who cares?
I'm just glad Zach is so much more improved and more mature now.
Can't believe you guys would defend a guy reportedly refusing to play football.
Also, I'm not sure how much I believe the story because it's hard to believe a guy would not want to have an opportunity to play football, so I don't want to be too critical. But if the Jets want him to play, and he refuses, he should be cut.
I sent him all of your posts and now he’s refusing to play. This is your fault.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 03:14:53 PM
Wilson doesn't owe the Jets a thing. He's protecting himself at this point.The Jets owe him money. Zach Wilson owes the Jets to play football when healthy and called upon. That's how jobs work.
If he goes out there and continues to struggle (very likely) it could end his career. He has a chance at a fresh start as a backup (like Sam Darnold got) next year. He shouldn't jeopardize that for an eliminated team that's given up on him multiple times.
How can Zach Wilson's stock possibly get any lower? I don't think his stock will get that much lower if he plays. I'm sure GMs will love to sign a backup quarterback who refuses to play because he got benched for poor play earlier in the season. The only way it gets lower is if he gets hurt, but anyone can get hurt. We're still playing Breece, Quinnen, Garrett, Sauce, Reed, Quincy and all our other good players. Why does Zach get to sit?
Plus, I am a Jets fan. I root for Zach Wilson because he is on the Jets, and I hope he can help the Jets win games. Other than that, I don't really care one way or the other about him. I want what is best for the Jets, not what is best for Zach Wilson. Ideally, the two are aligned. Other quarterbacks have gotten benched earlier in their careers. He handled it poorly last year. If this is true, he's handling it poorly again this year.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 03:17:16 PM
I root for Zach Wilson
No, you do not.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 03:20:37 PM
No, you do not.I root for the Jets. You root for Zach Wilson.
No other reason to defend the guy refusing to play for the Jets.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 04, 2023, 03:40:26 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 03:45:14 PM
I can't believe if he actually said no to playing that he'd still be on the roster.That's why I find it hard to fully believe, but Russini is a good reporter, and Rosenblatt on it, too.
I really don't know what Zach would get in a trade. Trey Lance went for a 4th, but he had an extra year on his contract. I don't know if Lance or Wilson would be valued more if the contract lengths were the same. What's worse - playing poorly for a long period of time or not playing at all?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 04, 2023, 04:07:19 PM
I don't give a excrement what reporters said. The head coach, no matter how any of us feel about him right now, stood in front of the media this afternoon and said Zach came into his office and said he wants the ball. Seems like something Zach could make him look really stupid about if he was lying.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 04, 2023, 04:09:00 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 04:25:01 PM
I root for the Jets. You root for Zach Wilson.
lol
Post by: Badger on December 04, 2023, 04:29:00 PM
https://x.com/DMRussini/status/1731741475992412520?s=20Zachary the Scrivener
lmao
fire everyone
Post by: bojanglesman on December 04, 2023, 04:32:51 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 04, 2023, 04:38:22 PM
If Zach felt like saying freak off, he wouldn't be in the wrong. Like Heis said, they wrongly scapegoated him. He knew damn well it wasn't his fault. They could've given him back the ball this week rather than roll with Boyle, or at least have made him the #2 so he could've come in yesterday.
I don't give a excrement what reporters said. The head coach, no matter how any of us feel about him right now, stood in front of the media this afternoon and said Zach came into his office and said he wants the ball. Seems like something Zach could make him look really stupid about if he was lying.
If Zach wants the ball, and he doesn’t get it next week, I have no freaking clue what we are doing
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 04:40:19 PM
Everyone knows the problems are deeper than him. That doesn't make him a scapegoat.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 04, 2023, 04:48:00 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2023, 04:50:43 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 04, 2023, 05:10:36 PM
Benny & The Jets
@bennyblancooooo
Coach Saleh: “Hey buddy, we need you back out their this week. What do you say?”
Zach Wilson:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAhj8vjWsAA7_gq?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 05:11:42 PM
You guys seriously have Stockholm Syndrome calling Zach a scapegoat.
Everyone knows the problems are deeper than him. That doesn't make him a scapegoat.
The only real change they made on offense was benching him. Scapegoat.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 05:13:47 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 05:20:26 PM
https://twitter.com/WFAN660/status/1731796772157292652
Robert Saleh is not texting that freaking blowhard
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2023, 05:21:16 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 05:21:49 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2023, 05:22:35 PM
Derek Smalls' opinion on Zach Wilson was solidified when he dick rode Tim Boyle after that lucky derriere flea flicker yesterdayThe flea flicker roots for the jets
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 05:28:06 PM
Derek Smalls' opinion on Zach Wilson was solidified when he dick rode Tim Boyle after that lucky derriere flea flicker yesterdayMy opinion is that Zach Wilson stinks. Apparently you disagree. That's fine.
He's better than Tim Boyle. Congratulations. I never said he wasn't.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2023, 05:29:47 PM
My opinion is that Zach Wilson stinks. Apparently you disagree. That's fine.
He's better than Tim Boyle. Congratulations. I never said he wasn't.
My opinion was that we didn't have a QB on the roster better than Zach, so there was no reason to bench him. This opinion became a fact.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 05:39:24 PM
My opinion was that we didn't have a QB on the roster better than Zach, so there was no reason to bench him. This opinion became a fact.My opinion was that when you have one of the worst offenses in NFL history, everyone who is part of the problem can be held accountable. The OL was shuffled around many times. They benched Lazard. They cut Carter. They limited Uzomah's time. And they benched Zach. You try new things. They had literally nothing to lose when you're averaging 1 offensive touchdown a game and can't score.
I would have preferred them do something with Hackett, but they chose to do Zach first, and I get it. Hackett has had more NFL success than Zach, and he's Rodgers' guy.
My take was that Wilson shouldn't be immune to being benched late in a game when he's playing badly and the offense isn't moving the ball. I didn't think they had to bench him permanently, but I wasn't opposed to them doing it. I also didn't think Zach would quit if they did it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2023, 05:49:25 PM
https://x.com/RGIII/status/1731752751321731513?s=20
What am I missing here for people to be calling him soft?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 05:59:43 PM
What am I missing here for people to be calling him soft?https://twitter.com/DMRussini/status/1731741475992412520
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2023, 06:23:11 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 04, 2023, 07:26:13 PM
yeah he was scapegoated for the change but there were also games early in the season where he was objectively the worst player on the offense when we still had some semblance of health on the line, and this coaching staff parlayed criticism away from him onto everybody else. they were not saying a negative word about him.
i'm just annoyed at how badly JD fucked this up. there were so many obvious things from jump that he carelessly glossed over. we're just random nobodies and posters on a message board, yet there were multiple people here talking about how uncomfortable they were with zach as #2 behind a geriatric QB, because there would be a high likelihood he would have to be called upon, and he is not / was not an nfl ready QB. JD didn't care. we'd freaking kill for a mike white right now, and mike white freaking sucks. that's where we're at
how many of us wrote about how careless we thought it was that the team would just roll out duane brown at LT coming straight off injury, while pigeon-holing AVT at guard, rather than throwing the best set of 5 out there to protect your investment at QB. there is no way AVT wasn't one of our top two tackles at the beginning of the season. we decided to live in a fantasy world and think that a 38 year old coming off a big injury with no preseason could just step in and do work. our season was done 4 plays later.
i've liked a lot of what JD has done and i think we've had some bad luck with injury, but the above 2 decisions are extremely careless decisions to make when we have so freaking much riding on the season. the lack of foresight in understanding the importance of the #2 QB behind a 39 year old QB and in understanding how paramount it is to have your best guys out there blocking for him to prevent injury and prevent the #2 from having to play are extremely fireable offenses
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2023, 07:55:20 PM
i'm just annoyed at how badly JD fucked this up.
Yup.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2023, 09:18:06 PM
Post by: Coach K on December 04, 2023, 09:22:03 PM
I can't believe the thing that didn't work last season didn't work this season with arguably worse players.Davis > Lazard
Moore > everyone not named Wilson
Yeah replace with a somehow worse OC and an older shittier OL
No wonder we regressed lol
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 04, 2023, 09:23:00 PM
I can't believe the thing that didn't work last season didn't work this season with arguably worse players.
I honestly thought just getting rid of Ty Johnson was enough for a SB run
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2023, 09:49:39 PM
Imagine if we didn't come back from the dead against the Giants.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 05, 2023, 09:47:08 AM
1. Zach came to Saleh to tell him that he wanted to play. Saleh said that he appreciates the sentiment but he hadn't decided on who the starter will be.
2. If Zach was unwilling to play, he wouldn't be on the roster.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 05, 2023, 10:02:27 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2023, 10:03:19 AM
Finally got around to watching Saleh's presser from yesterday. Regarding Zach there were two main takeaways:
1. Zach came to Saleh to tell him that he wanted to play. Saleh said that he appreciates the sentiment but he hadn't decided on who the starter will be.
2. If Zach was unwilling to play, he wouldn't be on the roster.
It sounds like Zach made a comment to a teammate about not wanting to risk injury and it got leaked (to Russini).
From everything Saleh is saying, Wilson has been pissed about getting benched but he handled it well publicly.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2023, 10:07:07 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 05, 2023, 10:08:30 AM
It sounds like Zach made a comment to a teammate about not wanting to risk injury and it got leaked (to Russini).
From everything Saleh is saying, Wilson has been pissed about getting benched but he handled it well publicly.
I'd expect most players to be pissed about getting benched.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2023, 11:05:26 AM
I'd expect most players to be pissed about getting benched.Players should get pissed about being benched. But professionals still do their jobs when called upon.
If Zach plays, it's basically water under the bridge. But if he doesn't play, and this story is true, it's unprofessional and reeks of privilege.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 05, 2023, 11:05:59 AM
I'd expect most players to be pissed about getting benched.
Zach has been benched 3 times in the last calendar year
End of last season, offseason, this year
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 05, 2023, 11:07:53 AM
Players should get pissed about being benched. But professionals still do their jobs when called upon.
If Zach plays, it's basically water under the bridge. But if he doesn't play, and this story is true, it's unprofessional and reeks of privilege.
Derek Smalls Zach Wilson
Wanting Zach to be benched
Post by: reuben on December 05, 2023, 11:32:16 AM
Derek Smalls Zach Wilson
Wanting Zach to be benched
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/012/468/shakeee.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2023, 11:34:46 AM
I'd expect most players to be pissed about getting benched.
Tim Boyle is probably OK with it
back where he belongs
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 05, 2023, 12:07:58 PM
Zach has been benched 3 times in the last calendar year
End of last season, offseason, this year
I’m aware.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2023, 12:27:43 PM
who do we think it is?
I bet it's Uzomah
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 05, 2023, 12:29:19 PM
https://x.com/antwanstaley/status/1732100086404874321?s=20
who do we think it is?
I bet it's Uzomah
plot twist: hackett
....paul hackett
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2023, 12:30:25 PM
He seems to be shitting on Connor Hughes and Dianna Russini too
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 05, 2023, 12:40:29 PM
I'm sure he'll play if he's told he's the starter the rest of the way. And if he doesn't it's his own problem going forward with the other 31 teams.
I love the high and mighty attitude that "he's getting paid, he should just do what he's paid to do" as though everyone always works at 100% because that's what they get paid to do, and they don't sit on a football message board instead.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2023, 12:46:12 PM
I have zero issue with Zach telling people he'd be reluctant to go back in and risk injury for a team that's excrement on him repeatedly.I'm truly stunned how many people are defending Zach Wilson for potentially not wanting to play football. Are we Jets fans or are we Zach Wilson fans?
I'm sure he'll play if he's told he's the starter the rest of the way. And if he doesn't it's his own problem going forward with the other 31 teams.
I love the high and mighty attitude that "he's getting paid, he should just do what he's paid to do" as though everyone always works at 100% because that's what they get paid to do, and they don't sit on a football message board instead.
I love the attitude that some people think that they can just tell their bosses, "Nah, I'm not going to show up today" and expect there to be no consequences. Wish I had that job.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 05, 2023, 12:59:43 PM
I'm truly stunned how many people are defending Zach Wilson for potentially not wanting to play football. Are we Jets fans or are we Zach Wilson fans?
I love the attitude that some people think that they can just tell their bosses, "Nah, I'm not going to show up today" and expect there to be no consequences. Wish I had that job.
You root for the Jets to lose more often than you root for them to win, are you not a Jets fan?
Post by: steves850 on December 05, 2023, 01:00:36 PM
I'm truly stunned how many people are defending Zach Wilson for potentially not wanting to play football. Are we Jets fans or are we Zach Wilson fans?
I love the attitude that some people think that they can just tell their bosses, "Nah, I'm not going to show up today" and expect there to be no consequences. Wish I had that job.
Clearly every job you've worked for has treated you fairly, and that's great for you. But I've worked for bosses who would go out of their ways to excrement on their staff then take credit for all their hard work. I have no issues with someone, from their perspective, being shafted over and over, then telling their boss to get fucked.
I highly doubt anyone on this board has worked somewhere with an exclusive contract and literally cannot quit so we probably can't get a full comparison.
Furthermore, I'm a Jets fan, I bleed green, but don't tell me this company has always treated us, their players, their staff etc, perfectly. Don't tell me it's above criticism or accountability.
They need to clean house and they need to fix this.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 05, 2023, 01:03:13 PM
I'm truly stunned how many people are defending Zach Wilson for potentially not wanting to play football. Are we Jets fans or are we Zach Wilson fans?
I love the attitude that some people think that they can just tell their bosses, "Nah, I'm not going to show up today" and expect there to be no consequences. Wish I had that job.
i'd be in the same boat as you if zach truly came out and balked when given the chance to play
but from what it sounds like he never actually said no. he expressed concerns RE injury in private (which can be valid), and then somebody decided to leak excrement
right now i'm just freaking annoyed at the unnecessary drama that's come out of this
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2023, 01:21:07 PM
i'd be in the same boat as you if zach truly came out and balked when given the chance to playYeah, that is why I keep couching my criticism with "if true." Feels like that isn't the whole story. But if you're on an NFL roster and your name is called, and youre healthy, you need to play.
but from what it sounds like he never actually said no. he expressed concerns RE injury in private (which can be valid), and then somebody decided to leak excrement
right now i'm just freaking annoyed at the unnecessary drama that's come out of this
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 05, 2023, 01:24:54 PM
I'm truly stunned how many people are defending Zach Wilson for potentially not wanting to play football. Are we Jets fans or are we Zach Wilson fans?
I love the attitude that some people think that they can just tell their bosses, "Nah, I'm not going to show up today" and expect there to be no consequences. Wish I had that job.
This is it. This is the worst Zach Wilson take I could possibly see. This is so divorced from reality in general and the facts we have for this situation specifically that it must have a restraining order on them.
He's about to be gone and is already going to have a difficult time finding a landing spot with a new team. Having personal reservations and anxieties about getting injured and making it more difficult to continue his career, if not outright end it, is a completely normal response. Expressing that to a friend/teammate that he trusts to try and work through his anxieties and worries like an actual human being with feelings is a completely normal response.
Having mental reservations about coming back and then getting injured when you are clearly about to hit a transition and still wanting to play are not mutually exclusive concepts.
Post by: Johnny English on December 05, 2023, 01:55:26 PM
https://x.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1732101647713595464?s=20
He seems to be shitting on Connor Hughes and Dianna Russini too
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I hear Rodgers saying "I'm not going to speak for Zach, he'll have the chance to do that for himself later this week" as Zach being at the podium i.e. starting on Sunday.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 05, 2023, 02:00:24 PM
But Zach may have said Uzomah "Dude, this line is gonna get me killed. Forget protection, I fear dying." And that's enough to say "ZACK IS REFUSING TO PLAY BUT COLLECTING A PAYCHECK!!!111one"
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 05, 2023, 02:01:38 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2023, 02:05:13 PM
Are we Jets fans or are we Zach Wilson fans?
zachoffensive.com
Post by: bojanglesman on December 05, 2023, 03:28:29 PM
Post by: Coach K on December 05, 2023, 06:22:08 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 05, 2023, 06:28:44 PM
Boyle was probably the leak . JD sat on his hands all yr now he's making moves in a lost lame duck season ? Lol
I mean he is the one with the “most to gain” by making the coaches sour on Zach, and keeps him instilled as the starter. Who the hell knows the leak and I doubt Russini gave up her source to Douglas.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 05, 2023, 07:30:13 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 05, 2023, 07:35:49 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2023, 08:58:39 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 05, 2023, 09:26:29 PM
Can't believe anyone is in Zach Wilson's camp. The dude has been protected over and over by this staff, coddled and coddled and he has sucked nothing but balls the entire time. He's a excrement player that has started 30 + games gotten chance after chance, he's a freaking giant hoo-ha, freak that guy.
Tim Boyle Truther
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 08:20:14 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 08:27:21 AM
We don't stand a chance unless Saleh takes the training wheels off and lets him play free. And i don't see that happening.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2023, 08:31:26 AM
Tim Boyle Truther
mack mode engaged
He is a Tim fan. Not a Jets fan.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 08:32:14 AM
Zach still stinks...he's just less smelly than the other turds in the room.
We don't stand a chance unless Saleh takes the training wheels off and lets him play free. And i don't see that happening.
Take your pick:
Muzzled: 12-20 132 yards 0 TD, 0 INT, 1 fumble
Free: 21-48 298 yards 1 TD, 4 INT, 1 fumble
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 08:53:40 AM
Zach still stinks...he's just less smelly than the other turds in the room.
We don't stand a chance unless Saleh takes the training wheels off and lets him play free. And i don't see that happening.
This is what I want to see. Let him play with his legs. His time here is done, so no need to protect him. There were a bunch of plays he could've saved Sunday just by running when the pocket broke down.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 09:01:28 AM
This is what I want to see. Let him play with his legs. His time here is done, so no need to protect him. There were a bunch of plays he could've saved Sunday just by running when the pocket broke down.
You won't see it. Saleh doesn't trust Zach, and he wants a turnover-free offense. He's still a DC pretending to be a HC.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2023, 09:23:22 AM
You won't see it. Saleh doesn't trust Zach, and he wants a turnover-free offense. He's still a DC pretending to be a HC.
Are you a 2021 Zach Wilson fan or a Jets fan?
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 09:44:11 AM
Are you a 2021 Zach Wilson fan or a Jets fan?Yes
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2023, 11:38:24 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 06, 2023, 11:42:09 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2023, 11:47:14 AM
Quote
Saleh said he always believed Zach was the best QB but wanted to try go get a spark for the offense with Boyle and Siemian
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2023, 11:58:04 AM
nail in the coffin derriere comment
Post by: IATA on December 06, 2023, 12:00:10 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 06, 2023, 12:16:10 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2023, 12:24:16 PM
nail in the coffin derriere comment
It was always a pointless and even net negative move but there was a ton of external pressure from media and fans for a change. Part of me thinks that Saleh was so fed up with it, his attitude was “you want it, you got it”.
People speculate a lot about losing the locker room, I don’t believe that, but it would be interesting to know what the sentiment was among the players.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2023, 12:29:38 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 12:33:45 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 01:18:52 PM
I'm not going to guess about what's going on behind the scenes, who cares. Zach is the less smelly turd as someone said earlier. Send him out there to finish the year and bury the ball after week 18.
correct
Zach isn't moving the needle. Saleh is the problem.
"DON'T YOU freaking TURN THE BALL OVER, ZACH!!!! DON'T YOU DARE freak OVER THIS DEFENSE!!" - Saleh
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2023, 01:28:22 PM
correct
Zach isn't moving the needle. Saleh is the problem.
"DON'T YOU freaking TURN THE BALL OVER, ZACH!!!! DON'T YOU DARE freak OVER THIS DEFENSE!!" - Saleh
What Saleh ACTUALLY said:
https://x.com/boygreen25/status/1732464349279609220?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 01:32:21 PM
The only thing I can think is that Saleh wants to be able to say to Woody, "This is what Joe gave me to work with. I tried everything and you saw the results."
If it was in response to fans/media noise, he can GTFO
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 01:33:36 PM
What Saleh ACTUALLY said:
https://x.com/boygreen25/status/1732464349279609220?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Maybe he should try relaying this to Hackett.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 01:34:01 PM
What Saleh ACTUALLY said:
https://x.com/boygreen25/status/1732464349279609220?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
He also said the offense was "close" for the last month and a half.
also...lol boygreen
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2023, 01:35:11 PM
Maybe he should try relaying this to Hackett.
I’m sure Hackett was telling TB7 to throw the ball away every time Garrett Wilson was open for 6
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 06, 2023, 01:35:47 PM
The only thing that bugs me about the whole spark thing was that Boyle proved right away he wasn't providing a spark. Why'd he play more than one week?That's fair. I would have been fine going back to Zach the following week after the Bills game. I didn't think he needed to be benched at that point. But I cannot blame the staff for benching a QB with 6 touchdowns and 12 turnovers. Boyle was terrible and there was still very little tangible difference offensively.
The only thing I can think is that Saleh wants to be able to say to Woody, "This is what Joe gave me to work with. I tried everything and you saw the results."
If it was in response to fans/media noise, he can GTFO
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 01:42:32 PM
I’m sure Hackett was telling TB7 to throw the ball away every time Garrett Wilson was open for 6
That's not what I mean. I mean designing plays that take advantage of what Zach can do. Roll out and gun downfield, and designed QB runs, along with fewer reads before he should just take off running.
Zach's never going to be the cerebral QB that can needle tight windows with any consistency. So play to what he actually can do. Impossible to do that with Boyle Siemien since both play like they're ankle deep in mud.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 01:43:15 PM
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2023, 01:46:07 PM
What Saleh ACTUALLY said:But what if I wanted to make up something he said and then be mad at him for it?
https://x.com/boygreen25/status/1732464349279609220?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2023, 01:47:40 PM
If it was in response to fans/media noise, he can GTFO
To be fair, this organization has a history of responding to noise once it gets to a certain point. For better or worse.
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2023, 01:49:27 PM
I’m sure Hackett was telling TB7 to throw the ball away every time Garrett Wilson was open for 6He was actually reciting this scene over the headset.
https://youtu.be/_LlPU6KenjU
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 01:50:34 PM
To be fair, this organization has a history of responding to noise once it gets to a certain point. For better or worse.
Replacing Zach with Boyle in-game is an acceptable response, but letting Boyle then start is unacceptable if it was just to show people anything.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 01:53:44 PM
But what if I wanted to make up something he said and then be mad at him for it?"We're close"
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2023, 02:11:39 PM
What Saleh ACTUALLY said:
https://x.com/boygreen25/status/1732464349279609220?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
You root for Boy Green.
I root for the Jets.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 02:14:23 PM
What Saleh ACTUALLY said:https://twitter.com/NYJ_Matt/status/1732456297805517293?t=_-QgRz1QSiHuRetuUr803w&s=19
https://x.com/boygreen25/status/1732464349279609220?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2023, 02:15:20 PM
https://twitter.com/NYJ_Matt/status/1732456297805517293?t=_-QgRz1QSiHuRetuUr803w&s=19
Robert Saleh Truther
Post by: insanity on December 06, 2023, 02:17:36 PM
The only thing that bugs me about the whole spark thing was that Boyle proved right away he wasn't providing a spark. Why'd he play more than one week?100% agree
The only thing I can think is that Saleh wants to be able to say to Woody, "This is what Joe gave me to work with. I tried everything and you saw the results."
If it was in response to fans/media noise, he can GTFO
As fans we beg coaches to do things, then they finally do them, and it doesn't work, and then we call the coaches idiots for doing it.
I don't think benching him was the right thing to do but we needed to try something. Him starting 2 games was idiotic though
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 02:23:07 PM
"We're close"
He also said the offense was "close" for the last month and a half.
When was the last time he said that? I believe he said it once, maybe twice several weeks ago. He's had the thousand mile stare at pressers the last few weeks. He wasn't anywhere near saying we were close.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 06, 2023, 02:43:32 PM
When was the last time he said that? I believe he said it once, maybe twice several weeks ago. He's had the thousand mile stare at pressers the last few weeks. He wasn't anywhere near saying we were close.
Yeah. He said it once or twice and it’s just been a running joke since then.
Post by: reuben on December 06, 2023, 03:00:23 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 03:02:10 PM
I wonder what qb -> o-line Christmas present etiquette is for a year like this.
Rodgers is going to give any surviving members his crutches
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 03:03:12 PM
Yeah. He said it once or twice and it’s just been a running joke since then.Hes said it more than twice.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 06, 2023, 03:04:29 PM
Hes said it more than twice.Sure, Jan.
He hasn't said it in a while. We can probably put this one to bed.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 03:04:49 PM
Hes said it more than twice.
No
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 03:14:08 PM
Sure, Jan.That's because his bullshit started to stink
He hasn't said it in a while. We can probably put this one to bed.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 03:14:25 PM
NoYep
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 03:27:16 PM
Yep
prove
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 04:32:08 PM
I don't care, but the same dude that asked us to watch the all-22 this week also told us previously to ignore what our eyes were telling us. The only thing this offense has ever been close to since play4 is historic futility.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2023, 04:45:40 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 04:49:48 PM
https://x.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1732529211179450693?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
That actually fits with what I said. He probably said something along the lines of "Man, I don't want to get destroyed behind that excrement line" and the reporters run with "Zack hates football and money and only wants to bang MILFs!"
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 06, 2023, 04:56:53 PM
Post by: steves850 on December 06, 2023, 04:57:49 PM
That actually fits with what I said. He probably said something along the lines of "Man, I don't want to get destroyed behind that excrement line" and the reporters run with "Zack hates football and money and only wants to bang MILFs!"
As of very recently, I also hate football and money and only want to bang MILFs.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 05:44:31 PM
proveGo watch all his pressers from week 4 on
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 07:17:22 PM
Go watch all his pressers from week 4 on
No, the burden of proof is on you in Arby's court.
He hasn't said anything about being close in several weeks.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 07:20:46 PM
Why does Zach have to make things so hard on himself?
In a few weeks or sooner, there will be memes of him being driven face first in the dirt and "having more fun that I ever have"
Post by: Johnny English on December 06, 2023, 07:27:15 PM
https://x.com/BrianCoz/status/1732534403123835217?s=20
Why does Zach have to make things so hard on himself?
In a few weeks or sooner, there will be memes of him being driven face first in the dirt and "having more fun that I ever have"
This is literally just after Saleh said that Zach needs to be more of his natural self playing his instinctive gunslinger game. For whatever people might think of Zach's abilities, he seems like a good soldier who's willing to listen to his coaches, absorb what they're telling him, and do it. Unfortunately, like most young QBs find out here, what the coaches are usually telling them is excrement.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 07:27:35 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/eEs1jRy5UXgAAAAC/house-explosion.gif)
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 07:29:06 PM
No, the burden of proof is on you in Arby's court.I dont have to prove anything...you're the one questioning it. I know what Saleh said and he's broached it multiple times because our retarded beat writers kept asking him about the offense despite the fact we won a few games..
He hasn't said anything about being close in several weeks.
He hasn't said it lately because we're losing now.....
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 07:30:11 PM
I dont have to prove anything...you're the one questioning it. I know what Saleh said and he's broached it multiple times because our retarded beat writers kept asking him about the offense despite the fact we won a few games..
He hasn't said it lately because we're losing now.....
Man, you keep suggesting he's still saying it.
He also said the offense was "close" for the last month and a half.
also...lol boygreen
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 07:39:15 PM
Man, you keep suggesting he's still saying it.He said it at 2:38am on the 3rd Tuesday of October 2023...there was a half moon that night.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 07:40:21 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 07:41:25 PM
Post by: reuben on December 06, 2023, 07:48:58 PM
Post by: Coach K on December 06, 2023, 07:51:01 PM
Big sticky explosion of points incumming
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 08:10:08 PM
MB's close
Lol
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 08:12:46 PM
LolBojunclesman
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 08:13:56 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 08:18:41 PM
You guys have short memories.
Coach Gase keeps telling us he's skipping Thanksgiving with his family to focus on the team, but it isn't working. When is he gonna produce?
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2023, 08:21:04 PM
MB's close
Oh, a titty! I saw a titty!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAsbE1gXwAANGl6?format=jpg&name=medium)
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2023, 08:34:16 PM
Coach Gase keeps telling us he's skipping Thanksgiving with his family to focus on the team, but it isn't working. When is he gonna produce?Prove
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 08, 2023, 12:42:23 PM
Post by: guinness77 on December 08, 2023, 09:01:32 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 08, 2023, 09:28:15 PM
Supposed to be rainy and windy on Sunday. Sure this is gonna go great. 👍
There will be 4 people there.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 08, 2023, 09:29:26 PM
Supposed to be rainy and windy on Sunday. Sure this is gonna go great. 👍
Doesn’t really affect our offense. maybe Stroud won’t be able to throw
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2023, 09:37:48 PM
There will be 4 people there.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231209/65c5aed69d7a0c9517a5a42bd713d2bb.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on December 09, 2023, 06:51:49 AM
Post by: Badger on December 09, 2023, 09:56:53 PM
https://twitter.com/desnewssports/status/1733337556396454387?t=uxK1wOdyqJvVdPnUwrxggg&s=19
Post by: Libero_2 on December 09, 2023, 11:18:52 PM
Utah sources report
https://twitter.com/desnewssports/status/1733337556396454387?t=uxK1wOdyqJvVdPnUwrxggg&s=19
I’m sure we would love to trade him for a 2033 conditional 7th round pick, just to get him off our books for less than he is now
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 10, 2023, 05:00:13 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 10, 2023, 05:07:30 PM
Things can change fast in the NFL. Wilson went from the future to the bench in a few games last year. He went from being a surefire offseason trade to a guy who can maybe play himself into the backup role with a strong finish.
Hopefully, Zach follows Geno and Darnold by playing good football in meaningless games at the end of a season to give us hope. And unlike those two, at least Zach doesn't have to start assuming AR is back.
Post by: Coach K on December 10, 2023, 08:54:41 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 10, 2023, 10:26:21 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 10, 2023, 10:28:42 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 10, 2023, 10:40:25 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 11, 2023, 07:38:10 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 11, 2023, 08:23:12 AM
The only way this can possibly end is with Zach Wilson actually being good but being done here because the bridges are burned
Part of me believes that no matter what happens this year, he’ll want a fresh start somewhere else next year. He already knows he is not going to be the guy going into next season, even if he plays strong to close it out.
Post by: steves850 on December 11, 2023, 09:07:02 AM
Part of me believes that no matter what happens this year, he’ll want a fresh start somewhere else next year. He already knows he is not going to be the guy going into next season, even if he plays strong to close it out.
You may be right but I can absolutely see him embracing the bench behind Rodgers. Not a first-round rookie or another retread, but Aaron "DMT" Rodgers is another story.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2023, 09:36:13 AM
Part of me believes that no matter what happens this year, he’ll want a fresh start somewhere else next year. He already knows he is not going to be the guy going into next season, even if he plays strong to close it out.
He's not going to be the guy anywhere though. His best chance to play (on a decent team) might be here.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2023, 09:38:46 AM
He's not going to be the guy anywhere though. His best chance to play (on a decent team) might be here.Wasn't he shopping for a piece of land in Tennessee earlier this year?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2023, 09:51:08 AM
He's not going to be the guy anywhere though. His best chance to play (on a decent team) might be here.
This made me laugh.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 11, 2023, 11:11:04 AM
He's not going to be the guy anywhere though. His best chance to play (on a decent team) might be here.
Agree
Unless the rumor is true about this already being a done deal and he's being traded, his best bet is getting that bench year behind Rodgers in 2024.
Besides, he can watch what Douglas does to improve the offense over the spring and if he doesn't like it, ask for a trade around the deadline.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2023, 11:22:12 AM
Wasn't he shopping for a piece of land in Tennessee earlier this year?
What does that have to do with anything?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2023, 11:30:36 AM
What does that have to do with anything?The titans could sign him
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2023, 11:51:52 AM
The titans could sign him
He's not a free agent
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2023, 11:56:41 AM
He just needs to play well. That's always been the issue. Can he string together back-to-back good games? Can he help us win a few games down the stretch?
We will need a backup for Aaron next season. The ideal scenario has always been Zach taking that job, which is why we handed him the job this season despite his struggles. Zach didn't really earn the job this year - it was handed to him because of his draft capital. He'll need to earn it next season. Let's see if he can do that. The best thing for the Jets is that he does.
Post by: guinness77 on December 11, 2023, 11:58:16 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2023, 11:58:25 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2023, 12:02:51 PM
Ideal scenario is Zach plays well to close out the season. He's QB2 in 2024 and we draft a QB in the mid-rounds to develop alongside him.
why would he want to continue to play for a coach who's benched his derriere twice, especially in this market. I hope he tells Saleh to "get fucked".
the rumors of him asking for a trade are probably true.
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2023, 12:04:57 PM
He’s gonna be the backup again and that’s fine. Can we please, for the love of god, bring in a real number 3 though? Is that asking too much? I’ve had my gripes with Zach and most urgently, his major inconsistencies, but having no real option behind him was a joke from day one and is one of the biggest reasons we’re 5-8. If you’re gonna bench him you can’t have Boyle and Siemian as your fallback options. Guys like Brisett and even Flacco were available. I’m not saying those guys were definitely gonna win but playing the guys we have is waving a white flag.
Everyone's #3 is either a Boyle/Siemian level player, or a developmental prospect. Zach should have been the #3 this year but because Douglas was asleep at the wheel we didn't have a #2.
Post by: guinness77 on December 11, 2023, 12:08:32 PM
Everyone's #3 is either a Boyle/Siemian level player, or a developmental prospect. Zach should have been the #3 this year but because Douglas was asleep at the wheel we didn't have a #2.Flacco was on a couch like 3 weeks ago. I’m not looking for the next Curt Warner. Tim Boyle couldn’t beat a D3 team.
I think bringing in that type of guy was to “not threaten” Zach and if that is indeed the case, than that’s a fireable offense.
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2023, 12:11:37 PM
Flacco was on a couch like 3 weeks ago. I’m not looking for the next Curt Warner. Tim Boyle couldn’t beat a D3 team.
I think bringing in that type of guy was to “not threaten” Zach and if that is indeed the case, than that’s a fireable offense.
Yes, but Flacco was on his couch because he wasn't going to go play scout team for vet minimum which is what you want from your #3. He sat around until someone would give him a shot at starting.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2023, 12:13:53 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2023, 12:14:12 PM
I thought rolling with ZW as the backup was fine. My issue was not immediately bringing in a warm body when AR got hurt or not making a move at the deadline for more help once they stayed afloat for a month without AR.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2023, 12:14:26 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2023, 12:15:28 PM
Post by: guinness77 on December 11, 2023, 12:18:40 PM
Yes, but Flacco was on his couch because he wasn't going to go play scout team for vet minimum which is what you want from your #3. He sat around until someone would give him a shot at starting.Which…we also could have done more than a month ago.
Post by: guinness77 on December 11, 2023, 12:19:33 PM
We need to draft another QBWith the present situation this is a definite yes.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2023, 12:26:19 PM
Michael Pratt, Bo Nix, and Sam Hartman
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2023, 12:37:57 PM
Which…we also could have done more than a month ago.
Sure. I'm taking issue with your suggestion that we should "bring in a real number 3" when the fact is that we had two of them, we didn't have a number 2. If we're saying that Zach is going to be the 2 next season if he stays, and both of those things should happen IMO, then we're not going to have a Flacco or a Brissett running scout team. It's going to be either a Boyle/Siemian or a draftee, and if Rodgers goes down again then Zach will be the starter and we should go to the market to find a replacement backup. Which is exactly what Cleveland did when Rapey went down, DTR became the starter and Flacco backed up until DTR got hurt, now Flacco's starting and DTR is backup.
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2023, 12:40:21 PM
We have 2 fourth rounders.
Michael Pratt, Bo Nix, and Sam Hartman
Sam Hartman and Zach Wilson sounds like the New Yorkiest of QB rooms. They would destroy all of NYC womankind.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2023, 12:42:21 PM
Him playing well and then staying here to sit behind Rodgers while the Jets develop him in a redshirt season is what's best for the fans who want him to be worth the #2 pick. What's best for him is going to be to move on to a spot that's going to give him a shot to at least compete for a starting job.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2023, 12:49:58 PM
why would he want to continue to play for a coach who's benched his derriere twice, especially in this market. I hope he tells Saleh to "get fucked".he has no choice.
the rumors of him asking for a trade are probably true.
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2023, 12:54:51 PM
We have 2 fourth rounders.Team Shartman
Michael Pratt, Bo Nix, and Sam Hartman
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2023, 01:01:57 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 11, 2023, 01:05:21 PM
he has no choice.
This is definitely getting lost here.
I don't know that Zach necessarily wants out anyway. Rodgers is his hero and they're clearly buddies on the sideline. And every player in every interview seemingly goes out of their way to talk well about Zach. We've been down the road of locker room hated QBs before, and this doesn't feel like that.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2023, 01:23:48 PM
This is definitely getting lost here.
I don't know that Zach necessarily wants out anyway. Rodgers is his hero and they're clearly buddies on the sideline. And every player in every interview seemingly goes out of their way to talk well about Zach. We've been down the road of locker room hated QBs before, and this doesn't feel like that.
Yep. He can be #2 on the team that drafted him in an offense he now knows behind his idol or be #2 or #3 somewhere else after being cut or being forced to be a big enough poopchute to be let go. His future would be much better staying here as #2.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2023, 01:55:50 PM
Yep. He can be #2 on the team that drafted him in an offense he now knows behind his idol or be #2 or #3 somewhere else after being cut or being forced to be a big enough poopchute to be let go. His future would be much better staying here as #2.Hes gonzo
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2023, 02:36:33 PM
He could also hold out but that doesn’t seem like his m.o..
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2023, 07:05:02 PM
He could very easily ask for a trade, something that Douglas has been so far been willing to do for anyone who requested one once the offseason starts.
He could also hold out but that doesn’t seem like his m.o..
Who is going to trade for Zach Wilson? More specifically, who is going to take on $5 million for Zach Wilson for 2024?
Edit: I guess we could eat some more money to get rid of him, but at some point he's more valuable to us here if he finishes the season well.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2023, 07:08:26 PM
If he plays well, that is a great problem to have.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2023, 08:28:54 PM
Who is going to trade for Zach Wilson? More specifically, who is going to take on $5 million for Zach Wilson for 2024?If he puts up another game like yesterday, someone will want to add him to their QB competition.
Edit: I guess we could eat some more money to get rid of him, but at some point he's more valuable to us here if he finishes the season well.
If he's so bad that no one would want him, why would the Jets entertain keeping him on the roster as the potential number 2?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 12, 2023, 08:33:37 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2023, 09:26:22 AM
It's one thing to have Zach as the "maybe will play a game or two in November because Rodgers is dealing with a balky calf" and a whole other to have Boyle as the "If anything happens to Wilson or he stinks, this is the guy."
I'm not saying Tannehill is the answer, but there's no way he would've been worse than Boyle.
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2023, 09:36:34 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 12, 2023, 10:09:45 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2023, 11:41:19 AM
But there was also Flacco as an option. Or practically anyone else not named Tim Boyle. I think Tannehill could've been had around the deadline, given he was benched for the rest of the year as soon as the deadline passed, but even if not him, someone, anyone, not named Tim Boyle. Or Trevor Siemien.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 12, 2023, 11:43:36 AM
It wasn’t a terrible plan to have Zach as the 2 entering this season. The terrible part of the plan was Tim Boyle at 3. We needed a non clipboard holder at 3 and ideally a developmental guy on the practice squad.
If the plan was to redshirt him like Saleh mentioned multiple times this season, having him be the primary backup to a 38 year old QB was a bad plan.
Post by: guinness77 on December 12, 2023, 11:47:49 AM
Fair points.I was told Flacco wouldn’t sign here. Even though he was a clear backup here in the past. And, signed in Cleveland a month ago to be another backup’s backup. *shrugs shoulders*
But there was also Flacco as an option. Or practically anyone else not named Tim Boyle. I think Tannehill could've been had around the deadline, given he was benched for the rest of the year as soon as the deadline passed, but even if not him, someone, anyone, not named Tim Boyle. Or Trevor Siemien.
Post by: guinness77 on December 12, 2023, 11:50:21 AM
If the plan was to redshirt him like Saleh mentioned multiple times this season, having him be the primary backup to a 38 year old QB was a bad plan.And, like I said yesterday, if a real option wasn’t signed as to hurt Zach’s feelings (which we’re never gonna find out anyway), everyone should be fired.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2023, 11:58:18 AM
How many quarterbacks are going to want to be in a situation where you're sitting behind Aaron Rodgers, meaning you are only playing in case of injury. And if that quarterback gets hurt, you have a former #2 overall pick that the staff would likely turn to at some point.
A "redshirt season" isn't really a thing for a 3rd-year quarterback. You're not getting any of the better backups to take that role unless you significantly overpay them. It sounds nice on paper, but in reality, if Rodgers gets hurt and the other backup struggles, then Zach would likely play at some point anyway. If the season were circling the drain with an older backup, you would have to turn to Zach at some point to see what he has.
To me, the way they should have handled quarterback once Rodgers went down was...
- Sign a guy quickly after the AR injury. Even Siemian would have been fine.
- Trade for a guy around the deadline as insurance.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2023, 12:04:57 PM
And, like I said yesterday, if a real option wasn’t signed as to hurt Zach’s feelings (which we’re never gonna find out anyway), everyone should be fired.It does fit the story that he was reluctant to play this week. Maybe they didn't want to threaten Zach's job because they didn't think they'd handle it well. If he was reluctant to play this week as reported, then that fits that narrative.
Hopefully getting benched for Tim Boyle really turns out to be a turning point in his career.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 12, 2023, 12:12:41 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2023, 02:41:48 PM
The initial setup was fine. Any argument against that is hindsight. Tim Boyle's entire reason for being was to be a voice in the QB room that was familiar with the system and could help Zach while he absorbed as much as possible from Rodgers.
The entire problem begins at the end of play #4. The moment that happened, the question became "Who starts if Zach gets hurt or stinks, considering we know what we have with Boyle?" The answer was Trevor Siemien.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2023, 03:07:55 PM
Which teams don't have a third-string QB? Isn't that kind of a thing (who else would be the emergency QB)?As Cato posted, most of the teams entered the season without a 3rd QB (19 of 32 had 2 QBs). And most of the 13 that carried 3 didn't have a guy like Rodgers as QB1.
The initial setup was fine. Any argument against that is hindsight. Tim Boyle's entire reason for being was to be a voice in the QB room that was familiar with the system and could help Zach while he absorbed as much as possible from Rodgers.
The entire problem begins at the end of play #4. The moment that happened, the question became "Who starts if Zach gets hurt or stinks, considering we know what we have with Boyle?" The answer was Trevor Siemien.
When is the last time the Jets carried 3 quarterbacks for an extended period? Streveler was a practice squadder who got promoted. Same with Josh Johnson IIRC. I don't think they've really done it with this regime.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 12, 2023, 03:32:00 PM
Which teams don't have a third-string QB? Isn't that kind of a thing (who else would be the emergency QB)?
The initial setup was fine. Any argument against that is hindsight. Tim Boyle's entire reason for being was to be a voice in the QB room that was familiar with the system and could help Zach while he absorbed as much as possible from Rodgers.
The entire problem begins at the end of play #4. The moment that happened, the question became "Who starts if Zach gets hurt or stinks, considering we know what we have with Boyle?" The answer was Trevor Siemien.
Reuben made a whole thread in the NFL forum listing every team's QBs after Rodgers went down. It's very much out of date but I don't think it's likely that every team dropped their 3rd qb.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 12, 2023, 03:42:16 PM
As Cato posted, most of the teams entered the season without a 3rd QB (19 of 32 had 2 QBs). And most of the 13 that carried 3 didn't have a guy like Rodgers as QB1.
When is the last time the Jets carried 3 quarterbacks for an extended period? Streveler was a practice squadder who got promoted. Same with Josh Johnson IIRC. I don't think they've really done it with this regime.
We started the season with both Mike White and Joe Flacco on the roster last year. Streveler was elevated later on.
I don't get why you're treating carrying 3 QBs like it's a curio only a few teams do.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2023, 03:59:34 PM
We started the season with both Mike White and Joe Flacco on the roster last year. Streveler was elevated later on.I keep forgetting about Flacco.
I don't get why you're treating carrying 3 QBs like it's a curio only a few teams do.
I'm not saying it's crazy that the Jets carry 3. I'm just saying that the majority of teams don't.
With Rodgers coming off a torn Achilles, I wouldn't be shocked if they change it up next season.
I think the 2 most likely QB rooms are
- Rodgers and Wilson with practice squad 3rd QB
- Rodgers and [insert veteran backup] and [insert mid-late-round pick)
Post by: insanity on December 12, 2023, 04:16:31 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 12, 2023, 05:37:08 PM
Where are all the josh Dobbs truthers now that he has been benched 3 times this year.
Asstronaut
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2023, 05:55:20 PM
Where are all the josh Dobbs truthers now that he has been benched 3 times this year.Hopefully, Zach is better the rest of the season, but if we had Dobbs instead of Zach, we probably have 1-2 more wins at this point. And Dobbs stinks.
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2023, 07:01:40 PM
Hopefully, Zach is better the rest of the season, but if we had Dobbs instead of Zach, we probably have 1-2 more wins at this point. And Dobbs stinks.
If we had Zach instead of Boyle we probably have 1-2 more wins at this point.
Which games do you think Dobbs would have been able to execute Hackett's play calls where Zach couldn't?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2023, 08:09:19 PM
If we had Zach instead of Boyle we probably have 1-2 more wins at this point.They scored 1 or fewer offensive touchdowns in 7 of his starts. Upgrading quarterback would have probably made a difference in 1 or 2 of them. Raiders, Chargers, Patriots, Falcons, take your pick. If they had traded for Dobbs, then Boyle wouldn't need to start the Falcons game.
Which games do you think Dobbs would have been able to execute Hackett's play calls where Zach couldn't?
Dobbs is just an example anyway. They should have added a contingency plan once Rodgers was gone, especially when the price wasn't steep. Relying on Tim Boyle as your primary backup to Zach Wilson was a bad decision. Zach Wilson got benched last year for poor play, and there was a chance he got benched again this year for poor play, which is exactly what happened. Tim Boyle can't be the answer.
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2023, 08:22:48 PM
They scored 1 or fewer offensive touchdowns in 7 of his starts. Upgrading quarterback would have probably made a difference in 1 or 2 of them. Raiders, Chargers, Patriots, Falcons, take your pick. If they had traded for Dobbs, then Boyle wouldn't need to start the Falcons game.
Dobbs is just an example anyway. They should have added a contingency plan once Rodgers was gone, especially when the price wasn't steep. Relying on Tim Boyle as your primary backup to Zach Wilson was a bad decision. Zach Wilson got benched last year for poor play, and there was a chance he got benched again this year for poor play, which is exactly what happened. Tim Boyle can't be the answer.
Upgrading OC would probably have made a bigger difference than any of that. I was already something of a Zach truther this season, but having seen his performance against the Texans I'm now completely convinced that the failures earlier in the season were primarily the result of the shitty playcalling. Take the shackles off him and we see what happens.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2023, 08:41:21 PM
Upgrading OC would probably have made a bigger difference than any of that. I was already something of a Zach truther this season, but having seen his performance against the Texans I'm now completely convinced that the failures earlier in the season were primarily the result of the shitty playcalling. Take the shackles off him and we see what happens.Hackett was OC when the offense wasn't productive, too. And Zach was the QB. The main thing that changed was that he didnt play the last 2 weeks.
I don't think shackles were taken off him. I think Zach just played a lot better, in part because he was pissed off from getting benched and playing like he had nothing to lose at this point.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2023, 09:35:22 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2023, 09:41:28 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2023, 09:47:55 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 12, 2023, 10:00:55 PM
The fun part will be when Zach lights up the Dolphins in a win, and then we bench him for Rodgers. And that is the last we see of Zach until the offseason.
If that happens, somebody will trade for Zach, which saves us cap space and gets us back a draft pick when we are all but certain to trade something of value for Davante Adams this offseason.
That is basically the best case scenario for both parties. Go play well Zach lead us to two wins then take a seat and watch the master work for the next 3 weeks and then get to a new town as a backup in the offseason
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2023, 10:05:20 PM
FWIW, Zach should've been benched against the Bills. It should've happened earlier in the season. But the two problems are 1. it should only have been for the rest of that game because 2. Tim Boyle and Trevor Siemien weren't going to improve anything.That's probably the right take. For the record, I would have preferred that, too, but I also didn't blame Saleh for pulling the trigger.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 12, 2023, 11:41:48 PM
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2023, 08:13:21 AM
Post by: steves850 on December 13, 2023, 08:57:31 AM
Offensive Player of the Week?
more like offensive player of the weak, amirite?
I'm sorry, I'll leave.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 14, 2023, 09:50:35 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 14, 2023, 10:05:23 AM
If he does well these last weeks, I want Zach back next season, it took us freaking three years to develop him and now we're sending him somewhere else? No sense for me to do that. It's not even that the fans are against him anymore.
Same here unless someone gives us a ridiculous offer, which won't happen. Even with those mediocre games in the middle of the season, he's been a different QB this year. Clear improvement.
But also, if he shits the bed and starts throwing picks left and right, I'm done. The end of this season is definitely important for him, regardless of where he ends up next year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2023, 10:16:10 AM
If he does well these last weeks, I want Zach back next season, it took us freaking three years to develop him and now we're sending him somewhere else? No sense for me to do that. It's not even that the fans are against him anymore.Let's have Zach string a couple games together before we seriously discuss what happens next season. Zach got benched for sucking each of the last two seasons. Most likely, he will revert back to the player he has been for 3 years and not the player he was in the 2nd half last week. But if he doesn't, he can give us some really interesting offseason decisions. I really hope he plays well.
Post by: Johnny English on December 14, 2023, 11:07:12 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 14, 2023, 11:14:49 AM
I suspect the point is more that after three years in the league, he'd rather go somewhere to compete for a starting job than be the backup to a guy he's never going to replace without injury or retirement.
I mostly agree with this sentiment but the guy who he's supposedly going to be sitting behind just got injured and is really close to retirement. It's probably not enough to get him to sit down for another season and I don't think he's counting on Rodgers tearing his ACL again but time could be a relative factor here.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2023, 11:38:13 AM
As Cato posted, most of the teams entered the season without a 3rd QB (19 of 32 had 2 QBs). And most of the 13 that carried 3 didn't have a guy like Rodgers as QB1.
When is the last time the Jets carried 3 quarterbacks for an extended period? Streveler was a practice squadder who got promoted. Same with Josh Johnson IIRC. I don't think they've really done it with this regime.
This year in particular is a great example of why you should carry 3 QBs
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2023, 11:39:06 AM
Which teams don't have a third-string QB? Isn't that kind of a thing (who else would be the emergency QB)?
The initial setup was fine. Any argument against that is hindsight. Tim Boyle's entire reason for being was to be a voice in the QB room that was familiar with the system and could help Zach while he absorbed as much as possible from Rodgers.
The entire problem begins at the end of play #4. The moment that happened, the question became "Who starts if Zach gets hurt or stinks, considering we know what we have with Boyle?" The answer was Trevor Siemien.
Wasting a roster spot on a guy that can’t play and everyone knows can’t play was a horrible idea. He was only here because of Rodgers
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2023, 11:41:21 AM
If he does well these last weeks, I want Zach back next season, it took us freaking three years to develop him and now we're sending him somewhere else? No sense for me to do that. It's not even that the fans are against him anymore.
No point in getting rid of him unless we got a good draft pick back. I’m not that confident we can upgrade on him at QB2 anyways
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2023, 11:43:13 AM
This year in particular is a great example of why you should carry 3 QBsI think they will next season. And I think that the number of QBs starting around the NFL this season might cause the 3-QB teams to trend up.
This year, I didn't have a big issue with it. Next year, with Rodgers coming off an Achilles, I think you have to. I'm not sure which direction you go with QB3 if Zach is QB2, but if Zach is gone, adding a vet and a rookie makes a lot of sense.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2023, 11:46:54 AM
I suspect the point is more that after three years in the league, he'd rather go somewhere to compete for a starting job than be the backup to a guy he's never going to replace without injury or retirement.He's under contract. Unless he's so reluctant to play that he demands a trade, he's at the Jets' mercy.
And backing up a guy coming off an Achilles isn't the worst spot. I thought it would be tough to get a backup this year with Zach in tow and Rodgers as the clear starter. We might be able to get a more appealing backup next year with Rodgers off injury and Zach out of the picture. It also likely makes it more appealing to Zach if he ends the season on a high note and trade packages aren't as good as we want them to be.
That said, all of this is contingent on Zach stringing a few good games together, something he has never done. Hopefully the last benching helped him or the team figure something out because the best thing for this franchise has always been Zach being successful in some way.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 14, 2023, 11:52:38 AM
He's under contract. Unless he's so reluctant to play that he demands a trade, he's at the Jets' mercy.
I would once again like to point out that the Jets have been mostly merciful in this regard.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2023, 11:52:40 AM
I think they will next season. And I think that the number of QBs starting around the NFL this season might cause the 3-QB teams to trend up.
This year, I didn't have a big issue with it. Next year, with Rodgers coming off an Achilles, I think you have to. I'm not sure which direction you go with QB3 if Zach is QB2, but if Zach is gone, adding a vet and a rookie makes a lot of sense.
Just add a legit veteran backup QB. Call him QB2 if you want.
Tannehill
Brissett
Tyrod
Darnold
Mariota
Jameis
Drew Lock
Minschew
Teddy Bridge
Josh Dobbs
Huntley
Are all FAs
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2023, 12:05:56 PM
Just add a legit veteran backup QB. Call him QB2 if you want.Are those guys coming here if Rodgers is the starter and Zach is the backup? And if Zach isn't the 'backup,' why are we keeping him around in the final year of his contract?
Tannehill
Brissett
Tyrod
Darnold
Mariota
Jameis
Drew Lock
Minschew
Teddy Bridge
Josh Dobbs
Huntley
Are all FAs
I think you either trade Zach for whatever you can get, or you make Zach the backup. If we want a 3-QB room with Zach, I think the 3rd QB is a mid-late draft pick that can learn behind Rodgers.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2023, 12:22:09 PM
Are those guys coming here if Rodgers is the starter and Zach is the backup? And if Zach isn't the 'backup,' why are we keeping him around in the final year of his contract?
I think you either trade Zach for whatever you can get, or you make Zach the backup. If we want a 3-QB room with Zach, I think the 3rd QB is a mid-late draft pick that can learn behind Rodgers.
After only checking a few teams,
Ravens have Huntley/Johnson/Cunningham behind Lamar
Bengals have Browning/McCarron behind Burrow
Steelers have Trubisky/Rudolph behind Pickett
Dolphins had Skylar Thompson play the Bills to a 34-31 loss against the Bills in the playoffs, and still threw money at Mike White
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2023, 12:22:57 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2023, 12:24:07 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 14, 2023, 12:59:22 PM
They know they are backups.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 14, 2023, 04:37:51 PM
Also the fact that Flacco got signed off the couch and actually played decent right away is yet another huge indictment on Joe Douglas and his process once AR went down
Well, Flacco was horrendous for us last season, so it's not that he was going to be much better this one.
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2023, 04:39:03 PM
Well, Flacco was horrendous for us last season, so it's not that he was going to be much better this one.Exactly. 31 teams didn't want him for a reason.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2023, 05:22:13 PM
Well, Flacco was horrendous for us last season, so it's not that he was going to be much better this one.There was very little difference between him and Zach last season.
There was a gap between Wilson and Boyle this year.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 14, 2023, 06:07:11 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 14, 2023, 06:50:14 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 14, 2023, 09:36:36 PM
Just add a legit veteran backup QB. Call him QB2 if you want.
Tannehill
Brissett
Tyrod
Darnold
Mariota
Jameis
Drew Lock
Minschew
Teddy Bridge
Josh Dobbs
Huntley
Are all FAs
if we keep zach, with the amount of money we'd have locked up in aaron and zach, i can't see us bringing anybody who would cost more than a 'cheap' qb contract.
out of the list above i feel like two names that could fit that bill would be darnold and dobbs.
the discussion changes if zach wants a trade and we find a trade partner who takes on his contract
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 17, 2023, 03:03:51 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 17, 2023, 03:05:01 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 17, 2023, 03:08:11 PM
The problem with Zach is that you put Trevor Siemian in the game and there's virtually no difference.I was focusing more on the injury situation. I didn't expect anyone to play better than him out there.
Post by: MBGreen on December 17, 2023, 03:09:03 PM
Can't wait to hear Saleh explain this one."We close, bitch"
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 17, 2023, 03:50:33 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 17, 2023, 03:52:43 PM
The first fumble was a bonehead play but with that OL nobody (of that kinda shitty level) has a chance. That's why they all look the same.
Needed to just diet it, slide,.or tuck it on that one.
Not like I can say I'd do better but fighting to throw it while you're on the grasp is just too much.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 17, 2023, 05:54:04 PM
Exactly. 31 teams didn't want him for a reason.
https://x.com/nfloncbs/status/1736506989436453238?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 17, 2023, 05:56:01 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 17, 2023, 06:20:44 PM
https://x.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1736464554941391176?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I was told Zach is the reason we don’t score points
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 17, 2023, 06:27:39 PM
I was told Zach is the reason we don’t score pointsZach Wilson did nothing wrong.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 17, 2023, 06:52:22 PM
Exactly. 31 teams didn't want him for a reason.
https://x.com/nfloncbs/status/1736507665121976552?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 17, 2023, 07:22:51 PM
https://x.com/nfloncbs/status/1736507665121976552?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkgSo are we so exceptionally bad that no one would be able to succeed or are our QBs just so bad that no plan can save them?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 17, 2023, 08:06:12 PM
So are we so exceptionally bad that no one would be able to succeed or are our QBs just so bad that no plan can save them?OL is that exceptionally bad.
And the QBs are worse than Joe Flacco.
Post by: Coach K on December 17, 2023, 10:25:44 PM
So are we so exceptionally bad that no one would be able to succeed or are our QBs just so bad that no plan can save them?Both . OL is legit the worst I've ever seen in my life
Our QB room is a coat hanger back alley abortion
Zach will be white Geno but basically take less time to do it if he actually goes to a offensive staff that doesn't have their pants around their ankles every week
Last week was clearly an anaomly not a turning point.
Post by: steves850 on December 18, 2023, 08:49:44 AM
Both . OL is legit the worst I've ever seen in my life
Our QB room is a coat hanger back alley abortion
Zach will be white Geno but basically take less time to do it if he actually goes to a offensive staff that doesn't have their pants around their ankles every week
Last week was clearly an anaomly not a turning point.
You're wrong. On opening day, our QB room:
- Rodgers
- Wilson
Post by: bojanglesman on December 18, 2023, 08:50:29 AM
Edit: what he said ^.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 18, 2023, 06:27:05 PM
https://x.com/jgrayjets/status/1736888545850130537?s=46
Post by: Heismanberg on December 18, 2023, 06:53:57 PM
According to Zach Wilson’s mom via her IG Story… he played through having symptoms of a concussion and didn’t tell anyone until he took another hit to the head. He had blurred vision and lost his depth of perception… he tried to stay out there for his teammates but couldn’t
https://x.com/jgrayjets/status/1736888545850130537?s=46
USER WAS BANNED FOR BRINGING JUSTIN GRAY TO JETOFFENSIVE
Post by: Libero_2 on December 18, 2023, 07:53:04 PM
According to Zach Wilson’s mom via her IG Story… he played through having symptoms of a concussion and didn’t tell anyone until he took another hit to the head. He had blurred vision and lost his depth of perception… he tried to stay out there for his teammates but couldn’t
https://x.com/jgrayjets/status/1736888545850130537?s=46
Then why report it as dehydration? Such a weird situation.
Hopefully we just shut him down for the last three weeks and let him heal properly since we tried our best to get him killed yesterday
Post by: Johnny English on December 18, 2023, 07:57:28 PM
Then why report it as dehydration? Such a weird situation.
Because it could have been both or either - there are some symptoms common to both - and if you report it as concussion you're into mandatory protocols, so don't report it as such until or unless you're sure.
Post by: guinness77 on December 26, 2023, 04:32:03 PM
In other words, he would have came here if called which is what my original point was a month ago.
Post by: reuben on December 26, 2023, 04:35:47 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 26, 2023, 05:29:53 PM
Joe Flacco would be deceased right now if we had called him.
Yes.
Post by: Johnny English on December 26, 2023, 08:55:21 PM
https://twitter.com/jasrifootball/status/1739692339809890447Dick says Flacco was interested but we weren't.
In other words, he would have came here if called which is what my original point was a month ago.
https://x.com/RichCimini/status/1739732478225453180?s=20
Maybe they just thought he was a bit of a dick when he was here before. Maybe Rodgers thinks he's a bit of a dick. He certainly seems like he might be.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 26, 2023, 10:02:04 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 27, 2023, 10:53:32 AM
Or Boyle
Post by: Heismanberg on December 27, 2023, 11:06:32 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 27, 2023, 11:09:31 AM
Joe Flacco was never going to sit in a QB room with Aaron Rodgers.
Vaxxed??
Post by: Heismanberg on December 27, 2023, 11:17:37 AM
Vaxxed??
and boosted
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 27, 2023, 01:14:44 PM
Post by: Badger on December 27, 2023, 06:01:32 PM
https://twitter.com/jasrifootball/status/1739692339809890447But why would anyone have wanted him back here? He had one good quarter for the Jets.
In other words, he would have came here if called which is what my original point was a month ago.
Post by: Badger on December 27, 2023, 06:02:10 PM
Flacco landed on the right team at the right time. He has still thrown 7 INTs in 4 games. Flacco is just airing it out as usual. Lots of yards, low completion %. But hey, he's winning. Good for him.To be fair, completion percentage is less important than YPA.
Post by: guinness77 on December 27, 2023, 08:41:15 PM
But why would anyone have wanted him back here? He had one good quarter for the Jets.This was from a month ago. I wanted him back because he isn’t Siemian. He joined the roster with Zach last season, why wouldn’t he again and from that interview yesterday, looks like he would have. Like everyone has already said, he probably would have gotten murdered behind our O-line anyway.
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2024, 10:51:08 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 07, 2024, 10:58:26 AM
https://twitter.com/DMRussini/status/1744031499542802613?s=19
We're going to swap him one-for-one with the Bears for Fields.
Post by: Johnny English on January 07, 2024, 10:59:54 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2024, 11:00:21 AM
We're going to swap him one-for-one with the Bears for Fields.I think the Bears are going to keep Fields
Post by: Johnny English on January 07, 2024, 11:01:35 AM
I think the Bears are going to keep Fields
I think so too, he's looked OK this year and the fans really like him. And I'm not all that convinced by Williams from the games I've seen, add in the USC factor and I'm definitely trading the #1 if I'm Chicago.
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2024, 11:42:36 AM
add in the USC factor
Not a real thing, at least not anymore and certainly shouldn't be for actual NFL scouts.
Post by: Johnny English on January 07, 2024, 11:49:36 AM
Not a real thing, at least not anymore and certainly shouldn't be for actual NFL scouts.
Except they have produced exactly one NFL starting calibre QB in their history. It is in fact a real thing, and while it doesn't mean that someone can't or won't buck the trend it has to be considered when you're banking your entire franchise on it. The little I've seen of Williams has not screamed "this is the guy to bury the stereotype".
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2024, 01:22:13 PM
Except they have produced exactly one NFL starting calibre QB in their history. It is in fact a real thing, and while it doesn't mean that someone can't or won't buck the trend it has to be considered when you're banking your entire franchise on it. The little I've seen of Williams has not screamed "this is the guy to bury the stereotype".
That's a Caleb Williams issue, not a USC one. Most colleges have produced 1 or 0 NFL starting caliber QBs. The only time it had merit was when the school was paying players indirectly in the 2000s to amass the talent they did, and you could accurately argue that they were surrounded by too much talent to evaluate them properly.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2024, 01:23:33 PM
I wouldn't draft an Ohio State QB in the 1st round either. Good job by Carolina passing on Stroud. Ohio State QBs never work out.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 07, 2024, 01:27:06 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 07, 2024, 02:55:31 PM
Except they have produced exactly one NFL starting calibre QB in their history. It is in fact a real thing, and while it doesn't mean that someone can't or won't buck the trend it has to be considered when you're banking your entire franchise on it. The little I've seen of Williams has not screamed "this is the guy to bury the stereotype".
Which school has consistently put out starting caliber QBs without a long series of busts?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 07, 2024, 02:58:23 PM
Which school has consistently put out starting caliber QBs without a long series of busts?
probably Oklahoma
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 07, 2024, 03:01:51 PM
probably Oklahoma
They might be the best right now. Sam Bradford is still solidly in the bust category, though.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 07, 2024, 03:05:33 PM
They might be the best right now. Sam Bradford is still solidly in the bust category, though.
I don't think he's a bust.
Sam Bradford won OROY and then just got hurt a lot.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 07, 2024, 03:07:17 PM
I don't think he's a bust.
Sam Bradford won OROY and then just got hurt a lot.
Good players that can't stay healthy are busts.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 07, 2024, 03:09:27 PM
Good players that can't stay healthy are busts.
Is Chad Pennington a bust?
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 07, 2024, 03:12:04 PM
Is Chad Pennington a bust?He was only healthy enough to play in at least 10 games 4 times for us.
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2024, 03:12:46 PM
Which school has consistently put out starting caliber QBs without a long series of busts?Miami of Ohio and the Delaware Fighting Blue Hens
Only produce SB winners and nothing else.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 07, 2024, 03:15:19 PM
Miami of Ohio
King Ugly Zac Dysert ruined this for you
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2024, 03:16:38 PM
King Ugly Zac Dysert ruined this for youNot letting a 7th round pick ruin my extremely scientific argument
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2024, 03:51:21 PM
Good players that can't stay healthy are busts.And he couldn't stay healthy because he went to Oklahoma.
Post by: Badger on February 12, 2024, 07:43:10 PM
https://twitter.com/jetswhispers/status/1756462653235421532?t=XtgdSKHDH_qQ4AwzTAF_EQ&s=19
Post by: Coach K on February 13, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 13, 2024, 05:21:58 PM
Laughing and crying simultaneously at this (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240213/44ed16376d8a1c162fe0d937aa1f4c66.jpg)
LMFAO
Post by: Coach K on February 16, 2024, 06:56:02 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2024, 12:30:17 PM
Quote
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
#Jets GM Joe Douglas confirms that the team has given QB Zach Wilson permission to seek a trade.
Post by: MBGreen on February 29, 2024, 07:23:49 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 29, 2024, 08:46:07 AM
https://theathletic.com/5306500/2024/02/29/new-york-jets-zach-wilson-trade/?source=emp_shared_article&access_token=10858729&redirected=1
I do not and will not pay for the Athletic
Post by: MBGreen on February 29, 2024, 09:27:19 AM
I do not and will not pay for the Athletic
still better than ESPN
Post by: bojanglesman on February 29, 2024, 10:38:25 AM
still better than ESPN
excrement better than turd.
Post by: MBGreen on February 29, 2024, 10:46:29 AM
excrement better than turd.
Why would Bucky Brooks do this?
Post by: AlioTheFool on February 29, 2024, 10:48:13 AM
It didn't say anything special though. It was basically, Zach's outta here, and named a few teams that might have some weak interest in him.
Post by: MBGreen on February 29, 2024, 10:50:50 AM
I didn't get paywalled when I clicked on it.
It didn't say anything special though. It was basically, Zach's outta here, and named a few teams that might have some weak interest in him.
I hope he lands with the Vikes...lots of minnesota gilfs to fornicate with up here.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on February 29, 2024, 11:01:31 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 29, 2024, 11:02:53 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 29, 2024, 11:13:28 AM
Zack Rosenblatt has become another idiotic member of the beat though.
This is why I will not support the Athletic
Both Rosenblatt and Hughes were terrible. The only reason I'd subscribe is for Jets content.
I don't think he's any better than Hughes. They are very similar and he's following a similar path.
No one will be worse than DJ Bean.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on February 29, 2024, 11:22:09 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 29, 2024, 11:22:51 AM
This is why I will not support the Athletic
Both Rosenblatt and Hughes were terrible. The only reason I'd subscribe is for Jets content.
I don't think he's any better than Hughes. They are very similar and he's following a similar path.
No one will be worse than DJ Bean.
At least Bean provided unintentional comic relief. "Dey gon sign him. News at 'leben."
Post by: Heismanberg on February 29, 2024, 11:55:56 AM
At least Bean provided unintentional comic relief. "Dey gon sign him. News at 'leben."
dat boy Zuk Wilson keep runnin out of bounce
he scary
Post by: AlioTheFool on February 29, 2024, 02:13:04 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 29, 2024, 02:28:31 PM
Out of bounce is still one of my favorite things ever (from the beat)
it was so good
and then he tried to justify it by saying he went to an Ivy League school
Post by: Badger on March 01, 2024, 09:50:18 PM
https://x.com/iamSauceGardner/status/1763679064303276310?s=20
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 01, 2024, 11:03:43 PM
Good guy SauceHe must really like Zach to lie like that.
https://x.com/iamSauceGardner/status/1763679064303276310?s=20
Post by: Libero_2 on March 02, 2024, 08:02:27 AM
He must really like Zach to lie like that.
He’s playing LeSauce - GM lately. GM speak if I’ve ever heard it.
Post by: ons on March 02, 2024, 10:50:14 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 11:09:01 AM
I feel like Zach is as good as or better than Darnold, but GMs aren't going to want to trade for Zach because of how Carolina got absolutely fleeced in that deal.
Zach is more physically talented than Darnold. I think Darnold has a better chance to have a long career as an NFL backup than Zach.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 02, 2024, 12:52:42 PM
it was so good
and then he tried to justify it by saying he went to an Ivy League school
And tried to characterize one of his professors as racist for questioning how he got in...
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 02, 2024, 06:18:48 PM
Post by: Coach K on March 02, 2024, 06:44:39 PM
Why should any team express interest without having a pick attached? The Jets showed all their cards way too soon. Over and over it went public that Zach was done here. Why should any team trade for him? It's blatantly obvious we'll release him at some point, then some team just needs to sign him on a cheap deal with no loss of assets.This
That being said we botched another prospect with excrement coaching
Sam it was personnel and questionable coaching
Now it was no OL decent WRs and a donkey at OC
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 07:08:29 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on March 04, 2024, 03:53:54 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 04, 2024, 04:13:41 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 04, 2024, 04:16:43 PM
this kid has no value
someone will think they can fix him
we saw the same thing with Rosen and Darnold
Post by: bojanglesman on March 04, 2024, 04:22:50 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 04, 2024, 06:17:17 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 04, 2024, 07:18:44 PM
Post by: Badger on March 10, 2024, 06:39:38 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 10, 2024, 06:41:42 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240310/7b0df74353fae1566da4d31bc303c3fd.jpg)
https://x.com/ryandleaf/status/1766870027649651191?s=46&t=5ospF-7U7rY0VTGIg3PZLg
Post by: bojanglesman on March 10, 2024, 07:42:58 PM
Post by: Badger on March 16, 2024, 07:17:17 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 16, 2024, 08:14:25 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2024, 08:43:17 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 16, 2024, 09:04:17 PM
given what the other QBs have gone for, we'd be lucky to get a 6th or 7th for zach at this point
I feel that if we were going to get that offer it would have happened by now.
I’d say a cut is most likely, second most likely is a conditional 6th in 2025 if Zach is on the new teams roster at the start of the league year in 2025. But nobody wants to pay a guy they aren’t sure can be their backup $5.5 million. He’s destined to be cut