Post by: Heismanberg on January 14, 2021, 09:43:30 PM
Quote
AdamSchefter: New Jets’ HC Robert Saleh is expected to take 49ers passing game coordinator Mike LaFleur as his offensive coordinator, per sources.
ZACH WILSON SZN
Post by: Heismanberg on January 14, 2021, 09:44:25 PM
Post by: WD40 on January 14, 2021, 09:45:31 PM
Post by: Jumbo on January 14, 2021, 09:46:05 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 14, 2021, 09:46:59 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 14, 2021, 09:48:07 PM
GUARDS > RUNNING BACKSWe went from 1st round Najee Harris this morning to Ty Johnson and UDFA szn.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 14, 2021, 10:05:31 PM
FVCKIN
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Heismanberg on January 14, 2021, 10:07:32 PM
We went from 1st round Najee Harris this morning to Ty Johnson and UDFA szn.
Najee's backup would be a pretty nice pick in the middle rounds
Post by: Heismanberg on January 14, 2021, 10:10:48 PM
Sign CJ Beathard/Nick Mullens
Draft Zach Wilson
Post by: MBGreen on January 14, 2021, 10:25:52 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 14, 2021, 10:27:02 PM
Trade Sam Darnold
Sign CJ Beathard/Nick Mullens
Draft Zach Wilson
Profit?
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 14, 2021, 10:29:14 PM
Trade Sam DarnoldGaroppolo could be available too and he might not be expensive given his contract. Maybe he can be involved in a trade down. Jimmy can compete with Sam.
Sign CJ Beathard/Nick Mullens
Draft Zach Wilson
(Purely spitballing here but I could see it).
Post by: Heismanberg on January 14, 2021, 10:34:11 PM
Garoppolo could be available too and he might not be expensive given his contract. Maybe he can be involved in a trade down. Jimmy can compete with Sam.
(Purely spitballing here but I could see it).
I think I'd prefer Beathard over Jimmy G, but goddamn it would be sweet to get a Garoppolo NYJ jersey
Post by: Heismanberg on January 14, 2021, 10:41:00 PM
Lets score some damn points for once
Post by: Coach K on January 14, 2021, 10:42:18 PM
Just get some guards and run some nasty play-action
Lets score some damn points for once
gord at 23
Post by: Libero_2 on January 14, 2021, 10:49:02 PM
gord at 23
Trade down from 23 to 29 so whomever can beat the Steeler to the punch at QB and then grab your Gord (Wyatt Davis or Trey Smith please)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2021, 08:32:59 AM
Cimini
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 15, 2021, 08:35:18 AM
“ Mike LaFleur, expected to be OC, from the Shanahan school. Fits Sam Darnold, who ran similar scheme as rookie under Jeremy Bates.”
Cimini
Horrifying that Danrold’s best year was under Jeremy Bates.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 15, 2021, 08:35:30 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 15, 2021, 08:40:08 AM
Horrifying that Danrold’s best year was under Jeremy Bates.
Well it's not like he's worked with 10 guys.
Jeremy Bates or Adam Gase/Dowell Loggains (rofl)
Not hard to see who wins there
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 15, 2021, 08:42:23 AM
Well it's not like he's worked with 10 guys.
Jeremy Bates or Adam Gase/Dowell Loggains (rofl)
Not hard to see who wins there
not hard to see who wins and jeremy bates doesn't even have a fvckin job in the league right now
is the lafleur hire more or less 'official' or is it just rumors/conjecture
Post by: bojanglesman on January 15, 2021, 08:44:42 AM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/755c2e158499e28e7b6d357855a321df/tenor.gif)
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2021, 08:45:41 AM
Peter Lafleur once Salad was hired:
(https://media.tenor.com/images/755c2e158499e28e7b6d357855a321df/tenor.gif)
yarrrr
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 15, 2021, 08:46:15 AM
Well it's not like he's worked with 10 guys.
Jeremy Bates or Adam Gase/Dowell Loggains (rofl)
Not hard to see who wins there
Yes. That was the part that made it horrifying.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 15, 2021, 08:46:25 AM
yarrrr
Average Joe's Offense
Post by: Libero_2 on January 15, 2021, 08:47:47 AM
not hard to see who wins and jeremy bates doesn't even have a fvckin job in the league right now
is the lafleur hire more or less 'official' or is it just rumors/conjecture
Considering people were talking about it for a long time prior to Saleh getting a gig that Lafleur was going with him wherever, I think that it's all but a done deal. Probably just need the paperwork done frankly
Post by: Libero_2 on January 15, 2021, 08:48:14 AM
Average Joe's Offense
Even in name alone it's a gigantic step forward than what we've experienced other than 2015 this decade
Post by: Badger on January 15, 2021, 09:43:30 AM
“ Mike LaFleur, expected to be OC, from the Shanahan school. Fits Sam Darnold, who ran similar scheme as rookie under Jeremy Bates.”
Cimini
Horrifying that Danrold’s best year was under Jeremy Bates.
Well it's not like he's worked with 10 guys.I never thought Bates did a bad job. Just saw him as a casualty of regime change.
Jeremy Bates or Adam Gase/Dowell Loggains (rofl)
Not hard to see who wins there
Post by: Badger on January 15, 2021, 09:44:18 AM
Average Joe's OffenseYards: 16th
Points: 16th
Make it happen LaFleur
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 15, 2021, 09:51:46 AM
I never thought Bates did a bad job. Just saw him as a casualty of regime change.
I remember him having a lot of problems with the locker room.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 15, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
Well it's not like he's worked with 10 guys.
Jeremy Bates or Adam Gase/Dowell Loggains (rofl)
Not hard to see who wins there
You draft a rookie he needs a few years in the league, Darnold is 23 and already has that. I'm all for bringing in competition, preferably a veteran, but there's absolutely no reason for him not to be an option.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 15, 2021, 10:01:25 AM
You draft a rookie he needs a few years in the league
Not necessarily
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 15, 2021, 10:05:13 AM
Not necessarily
In most cases. Was Darnold supposed to come in here at 20 and turn the team around with no line, no weapons and Todd Bowles on his way out? We succeeded with Sanchez as a rookie but not because of Sanchez.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 15, 2021, 10:08:42 AM
In most cases. Was Darnold supposed to come in here at 20 and turn the team around with no line, no weapons and Todd Bowles on his way out? We succeeded with Sanchez as a rookie but not because of Sanchez.
If you take a look at the top quarterbacks in the league, most of them were good almost immediately or made a significant jump in their second year.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 15, 2021, 10:11:51 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 15, 2021, 10:22:49 AM
https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/1350113105322323968?s=20
Yeah that’s exciting excrement right there
Post by: Gorilla on January 15, 2021, 10:26:51 AM
Keep Sam, get someone at 2 who helps us now.
We're not taking a non-QB at 2, not with Fields/Wilson on the board.
If we keep Sam we are trading down for more picks, the end. Douglas should be able to find a trade partner among whatever teams want to climb up for a QB. There is no other elite option at 2 other than Sewell, but I don't see taking a right tackle that high. Sewell at 4? Sure...if you can sell him on the prospect of likely making less money over his career by moving from LT.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 15, 2021, 11:27:14 AM
If you take a look at the top quarterbacks in the league, most of them were good almost immediately or made a significant jump in their second year.
Darnold's second year we brought in a new offense, a bad one as it turns out, and he missed most of the first half of the season with mono. Then he had a better second half and we went 6-2. Not everyone follows the same pattern.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 15, 2021, 11:36:55 AM
Darnold's second year we brought in a new offense, a bad one as it turns out, and he missed most of the first half of the season with mono. Then he had a better second half and we went 6-2. Not everyone follows the same pattern.That was the least impressive 6-2 imaginable where Darnold barely produced against a horrendous slate of opponents. Obviously, he did enough to win, but little else. Then this year, when we couldn't beat up on the NFC East, he continued to be mediocre.
Post by: Johnny English on January 15, 2021, 11:40:22 AM
That was the least impressive 6-2 imaginable where Darnold barely produced against a horrendous slate of opponents.
A few months ago that 6-2 run was what you were using to justify why we couldn't possibly fire Gase.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 15, 2021, 12:33:23 PM
A few months ago that 6-2 run was what you were using to justify why we couldn't possibly fire Gase.For the 10,000th time, I was fine if we fired Gase after his first season.
I didn't think he deserved getting fired, and I was fine bringing him back for a 2nd season, but I said many times that I was fine if they fired him after year 1. Nothing in his first season was all that impressive, but I also don't like firing coaches after one season unless it's egregiously bad, and that wasn't the case.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 15, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
A few months ago that 6-2 run was what you were using to justify why we couldn't possibly fire Gase.
I never said we "couldn't possibly fire Gase", you guys like to blow up these fake arguments to talk against instead of what I actually said. His first year started terrible and when Darnold came back they finished 6-2, that's what happened, that's what I said. So you have to factor all of that into your evaluation. I didn't like the Gase hire when it happened, but when you turn a season around like that in year one it's kind of hard to clean house again a year later and justify it.
Same with the QB, we drafted him at 20, gave him nothing to work with, fired two coaching staffs, and now people are crying that he's "broken" at 23. Bullshit. I don't know if he'll be a star but he's shown signs when given any kind of chance. He's also never complained or blamed anyone else when he's failed, he seems like he just keeps working at it. It would be nice to have some better coaching and tools to work with.
That was the least impressive 6-2 imaginable where Darnold barely produced against a horrendous slate of opponents. Obviously, he did enough to win, but little else. Then this year, when we couldn't beat up on the NFC East, he continued to be mediocre.
A 6-2 run in the NFL is a 6-2 run. You can pick it apart all you like because you hated the coach and he mad you sad blah blah blah, but you still have to win the games and they weren't all terrible teams. Take the fan emotion out of it.
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2021, 01:30:15 PM
@TomPelissero
·
3m
Reminder: The Rooney Rule now applies to coordinator positions, too. So none of those positions — offense, defense or special teams — can be filled until at least one external minority candidate interviews. That’ll impact how quickly you hear staff announcements in coming weeks.
Quick, where's Karl Dunbar?
Post by: Libero_2 on January 15, 2021, 04:19:04 PM
I was thinking about DC a bit today, I’m sure Saleh has a guy (or multiple) in mind already, but I would not be upset to see Aaron Glenn or the Rams guy waiting to take over for Staley, I believe it’s Anthony Pleasant get looks if Saleh is looking to open the interview process up.
Post by: Laxin on January 15, 2021, 04:27:14 PM
In most cases. Was Darnold supposed to come in here at 20 and turn the team around with no line, no weapons and Todd Bowles on his way out? We succeeded with Sanchez as a rookie but not because of Sanchez.
Baker Mayfield is the oldest QB left in the AFC... no longer are the days where QBs need or get years and years to develop.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 15, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Baker Mayfield is the oldest QB left in the AFC...
Huh?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2021, 04:44:14 PM
Huh?
AFC playoffs
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 15, 2021, 09:33:56 PM
Baker Mayfield is the oldest QB left in the AFC... no longer are the days where QBs need or get years and years to develop.
Not years and years but how about give him a chance? There's only 4 QBs left in rhe AFC playoffs, and a quick peak at the QBs in the NFC kind of negates that point. We just had Ben and bo in there last week too. The guys from his draft having success are on much better teams.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 18, 2021, 02:25:40 AM
Baker Mayfield is the oldest QB left in the AFC... no longer are the days where QBs need or get years and years to develop.
Have to point out hut the Ravens Browns Bills all had strong running games and defenses that are probably better than their ofeenses.
Mahomes is on a complete different level from those guys
And Allen and Lamar Jackson are far from developed
They are extremely athletically gifted, which is a complete cornerstone of their games. And while Allen has monumentally improved, the whole nation saw him missing wide open dudes all over the place this weekend
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 07:30:37 AM
Have to point out hut the Ravens Browns Bills all had strong running games and defenses that are probably better than their ofeenses.
Mahomes is on a complete different level from those guys
And Allen and Lamar Jackson are far from developed
They are extremely athletically gifted, which is a complete cornerstone of their games. And while Allen has monumentally improved, the whole nation saw him missing wide open dudes all over the place this weekend
Are you really this delusional? Have you watched Josh Allen this season?
It was extremely windy. There was no way to consistently throw the football.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 18, 2021, 07:55:00 AM
Are you really this delusional? Have you watched Josh Allen this season?
It was extremely windy. There was no way to consistently throw the football.
I haven't consistently watched the Bills no. But are you saying he doesn't still miss easy throws way too often?
I mean Lamar Jackson literally won MVP and he was missing throws all over the place. Then the following year he got exposed.
I won't deny that Allen is having an MVP like year, but do you think he will maintain and continue it next year? Or will his flaws resurge in a major way?
Diggs just dominated the nfl in a major way this season, so you have to think hes the biggest factor of Allens surge.
That said I haven't consistently watched the Bills, so my opinion is a fairly ignorant one
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 07:58:56 AM
I haven't consistently watched the Bills no. But are you saying he doesn't still miss easy throws way too often?
He completed almost 70% of his passes this season. Rodgers, Brees, and Watson are the only QBs with a better completion percentage.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 08:09:42 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 18, 2021, 08:13:54 AM
"Haven't watched him play, but let me comment on it anyway"
My point was its unlikely Allen and Jackson are fully developed QB's and instead get by being exceptionally athletically gifted.
You know far more than I do. Would you say Allen and Jackson are almost completely developed as QBs?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 08:16:31 AM
Would you say Allen and Jackson are almost completely developed as QBs?
Absolutely not, but Allen was the most physically gifted QB in that draft class and he's improved every season. Buffalo has surrounded him with talent too.
Lamar Jackson is not a traditional QB. If his legs aren't hurting a defense, it's basically over with. I think he can develop into a better pocket passer with coaching, but I'll believe it when I see.
It's more than just pure athleticism with Allen. He takes care of the football and he's been very accurate.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 18, 2021, 08:41:46 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 09:38:32 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 18, 2021, 11:59:03 AM
https://www.sny.tv/articles/sources-around-league-explain-how-the-jets-landed-on-hiring-robert-salehI'm just glad everyone unanimously agrees we hit a home run with this hire. Clearly, there is no way this hiring can backfire.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 18, 2021, 12:00:34 PM
That article mentions that Saleh thinks we're a better job than the Lions largely because of the draft capital we own.
Post by: MBGreen on January 18, 2021, 12:03:11 PM
Also, glad we traded Jamal Adams to get extra draft picks to make our job more appealing to Saleh, the greatest coach in NFL history who cannot possibly fail.So..Saleh isnt stupid. Now confirmed.
That article mentions that Saleh thinks we're a better job than the Lions largely because of the draft capital we own.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 18, 2021, 12:16:14 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 18, 2021, 01:56:41 PM
NY Post (https://nypost.com/2021/01/16/robert-salehs-likely-first-jets-hire-could-help-sam-darnold/)
I'd make the Watson trade if it can be done, but this is a good read.
Post by: Johnny English on January 18, 2021, 02:12:20 PM
Here's an article with some thoughts from Josh McCown on LaFleur's offense and Darnold:
NY Post (https://nypost.com/2021/01/16/robert-salehs-likely-first-jets-hire-could-help-sam-darnold/)
I'd make the Watson trade if it can be done, but this is a good read.
Bring back Josh as QBs coach.
Post by: MBGreen on January 18, 2021, 02:24:24 PM
Bring back Josh as QBs coach.
Knapp was already hired
Post by: Johnny English on January 18, 2021, 02:33:51 PM
Knapp was already hired
#FireKnapp
Post by: Libero_2 on January 18, 2021, 02:56:40 PM
#FireKnapp
Why? It’s Josh’s first coaching gig. Assistant QB coach works just fine
Post by: dcm1602 on January 18, 2021, 06:02:12 PM
Would be kinda nice if we brought in a DC or special teams coordinator that had some previous HC experience or something.
I'm sure Saleh has someone in mind to implement his system and style of defense. But if we grabbed someone like Wade Phillips who is a highly competent coordinator with a lifetime of experience that would be cool too
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 06:03:39 PM
We will have an extremely inexperienced coaching/coordinating staff
Do you even know who we hired? Our OL coach has been coaching guys how to block for 30+ years and our QB coach has either been coaching QBs or calling plays since the late 90s.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 18, 2021, 06:08:33 PM
Do you even know who we hired? Our OL coach has been coaching guys how to block for 30+ years and our QB coach has either been coaching QBs or calling plays since the late 90s.
Wasn't aware the rest of the staff has begun to fill in
My day is only just beginning
Post by: Coach K on January 18, 2021, 07:15:41 PM
Do you even know who we hired? Our OL coach has been coaching guys how to block for 30+ years and our QB coach has either been coaching QBs or calling plays since the late 90s.Who's our OL coach?
Post by: Coach K on January 18, 2021, 07:16:10 PM
Was Miles Austin confirmed at WR Coach ?
Post by: MBGreen on January 18, 2021, 07:38:24 PM
Who's our OL coach?John Benton
Post by: Coach K on January 18, 2021, 09:17:24 PM
John BentonNice
It's gonna be a refreshing return to strong fundamentals and punching ppl in the mouth
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 18, 2021, 11:45:32 PM
My day is only just beginning
Chilling thought.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 21, 2021, 01:47:06 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 21, 2021, 01:49:12 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1352341577738412032?s=20He should do a good job running the Lions in 2 years.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 21, 2021, 02:25:28 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1352341577738412032?s=20
Everything about this staff feels stronger than what we have had here for quite a while.
I'm excited to see what this staff can do in terms of actually developing players.
Post by: Badger on January 21, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Everything about this staff feels stronger than what we have had here for quite a while.I can't remember the last time I felt this good about each coordinator when a new HC came in.
I'm excited to see what this staff can do in terms of actually developing players.
Dimple Lobsters was a non-entity.
Chan Gailey I was skeptical of.
In 09 Schotty was a holdover who had started to accumulate baggage and Pettine was just an extension of Rex.
I can't remember how I felt in 06 but Schotty I think was a complete unknown and Sutton was "fine".
Post by: Johnny English on January 21, 2021, 03:22:30 PM
I can't remember the last time I felt this good about each coordinator when a new HC came in.
Dimple Lobsters was a non-entity.
Chan Gailey I was skeptical of.
In 09 Schotty was a holdover who had started to accumulate baggage and Pettine was just an extension of Rex.
I can't remember how I felt in 06 but Schotty I think was a complete unknown and Sutton was "fine".
Yeah but Marty Mornhinweg and Tony Sparano.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 21, 2021, 03:26:23 PM
Yeah but Marty Mornhinweg and Tony Sparano.
And suddenly I need to run to the toilet.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 21, 2021, 05:43:14 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 21, 2021, 06:13:48 PM
John “Ardarius Stewart” Morton
And Jeremy "Cheryl Strayed" Bates.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 11, 2021, 01:55:04 PM
Post by: Johnny English on August 11, 2021, 02:08:48 PM
https://twitter.com/pff/status/1425502354628128772?s=21
I am surprised that there are 2 AFCN teams in the top 3, I think of that as a division with some pretty monstrous defensive fronts.
Post by: Johnny English on August 16, 2021, 08:06:46 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 16, 2021, 08:20:36 AM
https://twitter.com/mattschneidman/status/1426985627212464139?s=21
Reached for comment, Mike LaFleur said, "Moooooom, Matt's being mean to me!"
Post by: MBGreen on August 16, 2021, 01:13:39 PM
https://twitter.com/mattschneidman/status/1426985627212464139?s=21
Matt's lucky he still has a starting QB this year.
Post by: Badger on September 09, 2021, 12:19:45 PM
Sideline Mike
Post by: Laxin on September 09, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Al_Iannazzone/status/1436005297865297921
Sideline Mike
I have no idea, but it seems like this is better for a young QB
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 15, 2021, 12:43:50 PM
Quote
The #Jets ran 90% of their plays out of 2 personnel groupings. 50% from 11 personnel (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR) and 40% from 12 personnel (1 RB, 2 TE, 2 WR), they even used a little 13 (1 RB, 3 TE, 1 WR).
We need our TEs to block much better
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2021, 12:56:52 PM
We need our TEs to block much better
we need better TEs
Post by: Coach K on September 15, 2021, 02:11:44 PM
we need better TEsThis
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 15, 2021, 03:14:55 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 15, 2021, 03:22:46 PM
I get that he wasn't a fit for the team. But when you have no adequate replacements, do you want to risk your franchise QB? Especially with how putrid this OL is
Post by: Badger on September 15, 2021, 03:32:48 PM
As great as that 4th round pick for Herndon is, it doesn't help us right now when our current tight ends can't seem to block worth a lick.Our OL shouldn't be bad enough (and yes, I'm aware it is) that a lack of blocking TEs is this dire.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 15, 2021, 03:53:14 PM
Our OL shouldn't be bad enough (and yes, I'm aware it is) that a lack of blocking TEs is this dire.
Daniel Brown was signed to block. Wesco was drafted to block. They just suck.
Apparently the biggest culprit Sunday was Ryan Griffin, according to Nania.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 15, 2021, 04:35:06 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 15, 2021, 04:57:25 PM
Daniel Brown is a converted receiver. It’s not a surprise that he sucks at blocking.
Should it be a surprise that he sucks at receiving?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 15, 2021, 05:15:16 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 15, 2021, 05:24:18 PM
We haven’t had a true receiving threat at TE in over a decade.
Post by: Libero_2 on September 15, 2021, 06:57:52 PM
If Wilson ends up with a broken bone that Herndon trade ends up looking freaking terrible.
I get that he wasn't a fit for the team. But when you have no adequate replacements, do you want to risk your franchise QB? Especially with how putrid this OL is
If our blocking is dependent on a TE to get the job done, ESPECIALLY in pass protection, we are already so fucked it doesn’t matter. Can TEs and HBs help in pass pro and be keys at times? Absolutely. But if they are the primary cogs in the blocking scheme we are already to far gone to save.
Herndon might have been a better pass blocker, but if we have to leave him in every snap to block, he’s providing no other value to us.
As H pointed out, our TE problem is that every one of those guys is a slot too high. 2 years ago a healthy Ryan Griffin was a solid #2 for us, and filled in well while Herndon was out. But he couldn’t ever be “the guy” now post injury and a little less athletic, he’s a pretty good TE 3 option who is operating as our #2. Kroft is a similar player to who Griffin was a few years ago, adequate enough blocker, decent receiving tools. A capable but not great #2. But he’s our best option. Then Wesco as an HBack is again decent enough as a blocker and decent enough catching the ball in the flats. But he can’t do anything exciting. He’s a guy that if he’s your “weak link” playing 10-15 snaps a game you are doing just fine. But if he’s a guy playing as many snaps as he did Sunday, that’s a problem.
We need some dynamic option to add to this group. Then everything will slide in the way it all is supposed to and everything looks a lot better
Post by: delavan on September 15, 2021, 07:46:13 PM
Our OL shouldn't be bad enough (and yes, I'm aware it is) that a lack of blocking TEs is this dire.^ This +1. TE's aside, could OC LaFluer have OL coach Benton go over countering twists, slants and stunts again please?
Check out the 4th qtr. sack where Derrick Brown absolutely crushed Zack: Van Roten staring off into space before he and Connor McGovern react way too late to pick up a stunting rusher....AVT screwed up as well having a rusher cross his face en route to Zach. It was all IOL-related and had nothing to do with TEs.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 15, 2021, 07:55:01 PM
^ This +1. TE's aside, could OC LaFluer have OL coach Benton go over countering twists, slants and stunts again please?
Check out the 4th qtr. sack where Derrick Brown absolutely crushed Zack: Van Roten staring off into space before he and Connor McGovern react way too late to pick up a stunting rusher....AVT screwed up as well having a rusher cross his face en route to Zach. It was all IOL-related and had nothing to do with TEs.
+1+1
The OL stinks. Yes, TEs should be able to help as blockers, but no tight end is making up for a line that isn't doing its job.
Post by: reuben on September 15, 2021, 08:46:56 PM
^ This +1. TE's aside, could OC LaFluer have OL coach Benton go over countering twists, slants and stunts again please?
Check out the 4th qtr. sack where Derrick Brown absolutely crushed Zack: Van Roten staring off into space before he and Connor McGovern react way too late to pick up a stunting rusher....AVT screwed up as well having a rusher cross his face en route to Zach. It was all IOL-related and had nothing to do with TEs.
All three of them were spun like tops. Three iOL against two DT's and they couldn't even slow one of them down.
Post by: ons on September 17, 2021, 10:21:09 AM
Quote
“There were six or seven plays in training camp where he ran the wrong route. It wasn’t dramatically wrong, not a total bust, but slight imperfections in his route running that caused the coaching staff to get on him. I don’t think he handled it well and he feels like he is being penalized for mistakes that some of the other receivers are making as well.”
Jets offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur went to give Mims a pep talk around him being proud of him and to keep going because he’s almost there, a motivating chat designed to be positive reinforcement. Instead Cimini said that “it didn’t go over well with Mims” and has created a “dicey situation”.
https://www.ganggreennation.com/platform/amp/2021/9/16/22677173/report-mims-situation-dicey-according-to-cimini
Post by: Badger on September 17, 2021, 10:24:51 AM
Cimini seems to think LaFleur and Mims aren't getting along:Starting price is 2 1st rounders
https://www.ganggreennation.com/platform/amp/2021/9/16/22677173/report-mims-situation-dicey-according-to-cimini
Post by: Johnny English on September 17, 2021, 10:31:35 AM
Cimini seems to think LaFleur and Mims aren't getting along:
https://www.ganggreennation.com/platform/amp/2021/9/16/22677173/report-mims-situation-dicey-according-to-cimini
If the only OC you've played for in the NFL is Dowell Loggains then it's perhaps understandable that you don't know how it's supposed to work.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 17, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Post by: Badger on September 17, 2021, 10:49:24 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2021, 10:52:19 AM
Stupid drama. I don't care. Stay, leave, who cares.
Excuse me sir...this is a Wendy's.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 17, 2021, 10:57:53 AM
Excuse me sir...this is a Wendy's.
Alright, I'll have 2 Jr Baocn cheeseburgers, large fries and unsweet tea.
Post by: Badger on September 17, 2021, 10:59:41 AM
unsweet tea.
Sir, this is Virginia
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2021, 11:01:25 AM
unsweet tea.
isn't that pee?
Post by: bojanglesman on September 17, 2021, 11:04:11 AM
Sir, this is Virginia
When you order sweet tea here, you get a chewy sludge that contains enough sugar to cause diabetes in you and anyone surrounding you. That isn't what I grew up with, I'll pass. Unsweet tea is boring, but it's better than diabeeetus liquid.
Post by: Badger on September 17, 2021, 11:27:30 AM
When you order sweet tea here, you get a chewy sludge that contains enough sugar to cause diabetes in you and anyone surrounding you. That isn't what I grew up with, I'll pass. Unsweet tea is boring, but it's better than diabeeetus liquid.I'll never forget when I ordered at the Hardee's in Louisa and they brought out a gallon of that stuff with our food. Lasted me a week.
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2021, 11:28:21 AM
When you order sweet tea here, you get a chewy sludge that contains enough sugar to cause diabetes in you and anyone surrounding you. That isn't what I grew up with, I'll pass. Unsweet tea is boring, but it's better than diabeeetus liquid.
if that banana pudding didn't give you diabetes, then i'm sure you'll be fine with sweet tea.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 17, 2021, 11:32:05 AM
if that banana pudding didn't give you diabetes, then i'm sure you'll be fine with sweet tea.
That pudding was elite, you didn't have any.
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2021, 11:33:43 AM
That pudding was elite, you didn't have any.
because i'm diabetic, you swine.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 17, 2021, 11:39:58 AM
because i'm diabetic, you swine.
loss4u
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 12:56:07 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 20, 2021, 01:40:46 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Really focusing on the sidelines. Seems like trying to scheme the middle of the field would help Wilson out?
Tough to do when Greg Van Roten is getting his derriere kicked all game
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2021, 05:32:36 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2021, 05:38:01 PM
Post by: Coach K on September 26, 2021, 06:06:49 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2021, 06:08:20 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on September 26, 2021, 06:09:36 PM
Add that to this garbage scheme that’s all about right window throws and precise execution, and of course it’s going to be a disaster when our offense is maybe the 25th most talented in the league
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2021, 06:34:11 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 26, 2021, 10:08:17 PM
#Jets have scored 20 points in 3 games. Over the last 30 years, Saleh is one of only 5 HCs with 20 or fewer pts in his first 3 games. The others: Brian Flores, Mia, 2016, 16 pts Steve Wilks, Ariz, 2018, 20 pts Marty Mornhinweg, Det, 2001, 20 pts Chris Palmer, Cle, 1999, 19 pts
(it was 2019 for Miami and they did it with a mix of Rosen + Fitz, Arizona had the corpse of Sam Bradford )
Post by: reuben on September 26, 2021, 10:10:58 PM
On the bright side, LaFleur is green enough to improve. On the other hand, so was Schotty.
Schotty in 2006 was a first ballot hall of fame coordinator compared to Lafleur in 2021.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 09:25:11 AM
Time is a flat circle of us hiring the same exact OC every few years
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 10:41:14 AM
I need to know what goes into drawing up this play
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2021, 10:44:27 AM
https://twitter.com/jetlifenews/status/1442472125105799170?s=21
I need to know what goes into drawing up this play
Isn't the point of that play to get Davis into single coverage on a go route (bottom of the screen), with the trips breaking out as options if he can't separate? If the pocket hadn't just collapsed immediately it might have worked, although I can't tell who Davis was matched up with.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 10:54:57 AM
Isn't the point of that play to get Davis into single coverage on a go route (bottom of the screen), with the trips breaking out as options if he can't separate? If the pocket hadn't just collapsed immediately it might have worked, although I can't tell who Davis was matched up with.
It’s 3rd and 6 though, why would we call a go route when our OL can’t block for more than 1.5 seconds?
I’m praying one of the guys in trips ran the wrong route
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2021, 11:05:50 AM
It’s 3rd and 6 though, why would we call a go route when our OL can’t block for more than 1.5 seconds?
I’m praying one of the guys in trips ran the wrong route
I can't explain why he called it, just how I think it was supposed to work.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 11:23:18 AM
Isn't the point of that play to get Davis into single coverage on a go route (bottom of the screen), with the trips breaking out as options if he can't separate? If the pocket hadn't just collapsed immediately it might have worked, although I can't tell who Davis was matched up with.
Absolutely not. Davis is running a clear out.
It's a Cover 2 beater concept known as Levels. However, the receivers did not run it correctly AND the coverage was not Cover 2. It was disguised.
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2021, 11:24:31 AM
Absolutely not. Davis is running a clear out.
It's a Cover 2 beater concept known as Levels. However, the receivers did not run it correctly AND the coverage was not Cover 2. It was disguised.
Ah, OK. What should the trips have done on that play?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 11:27:40 AM
Ah, OK. What should the trips have done on that play?
(https://insider.afca.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/just-play-tw-1.jpg)
Someone didn't get the right depth
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 11:29:40 AM
Post by: ons on September 27, 2021, 11:40:27 AM
The tight end needed to push for about 3 to 5 more yards. That potentially clears up the middle for #2.
That makes sense, and it looks like Wilson thought about going there anyway but got nervous about the safety closing down the space. If the TE is further upfield he probably attempts the throw.
Stuff like this makes me hope that he problems in this offense are fixable, I want to believe that LaFleur just tried to install too much this summer and players just don't know the offense well enough to execute consistently yet, but as in-game reps increase we'll hopefully see some big improvements.
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2021, 11:41:45 AM
The tight end needed to push for about 3 to 5 more yards. That potentially clears up the middle for #2.
So like this?
(https://i.imgur.com/pcr1I5j.png)
That still looks like it won't work though, because if the TE (blue) doesn't turn at this point and continues a bit more downfield, his defender will presumably release him to the safety that he knows is sitting deep and instead he'll catch the first crossing receiver (yellow). The only way this works as I can see it is if the defender tracks the TE and effectively runs him into double coverage. Zach's clean at this point and has a shot at the first crosser, but as we know from how the play developed the edge rusher has already beaten Moses inside so Zach isn't going to have time to look off the first crosser and pick up the second.
All feels like it was a bit doomed even if they'd run it correctly. Assuming I'm understanding the concept correctly, obviously.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 11:45:23 AM
However, if Kroft (I think it's Kroft) pushed for more depth, #2 might be open over the middle.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 11:47:36 AM
If that LB makes the right read and picks up #2, it might be a pick or the WR is dead.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2021, 03:24:41 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 28, 2021, 11:54:18 AM
Total: 30
Run: 29
Pass: 30
Scoring: 32
Huge upgrade from Gase
Post by: reuben on September 28, 2021, 12:08:36 PM
Get up in that booth, Chester.
Post by: insanity on September 28, 2021, 01:27:00 PM
Remember when our offensive coordinator still hadn't figured out where he'd be on gamedays until deep into the preseason? That miiiiiight have been a warning sign.go home youre drunk
Get up in that booth, Chester.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2021, 03:31:38 PM
Remember when our offensive coordinator still hadn't figured out where he'd be on gamedays until deep into the preseason? That miiiiiight have been a warning sign.I do wonder if that affects his playcalling. He's used to being in the booth. Now he's on the field. I'd be lying to know how much that's affecting him, but it could be a factor. A good coach should be able to adjust.
Get up in that booth, Chester.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2021, 03:36:51 PM
I do wonder if that affects his playcalling. He's used to being in the booth. Now he's on the field. I'd be lying to know how much that's affecting him, but it could be a factor. A good coach should be able to adjust.
It's not a big deal. It's just a preference thing.
Post by: Johnny English on September 28, 2021, 03:48:56 PM
It's not a big deal. It's just a preference thing.
Presumably though his playcalling is more dependent upon trusting the guy in the booth who is reading the defensive plays and scheme. I don't know who is doing that for him.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2021, 04:34:36 PM
Presumably though his playcalling is more dependent upon trusting the guy in the booth who is reading the defensive plays and scheme. I don't know who is doing that for him.
Even if he's in the booth though, he's got someone reading fronts and someone else reading coverage for him.
Those guys are likely excrement too.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 30, 2021, 11:20:15 AM
Quote
“We didnt play very well” - Mike LaFleur on what happened on Sunday
Post by: Miamipuck on September 30, 2021, 12:10:38 PM
Rather ground breaking news right next to " We need to execute"
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 05, 2021, 10:35:18 AM
EPA is not a fan of our offense. Pretty much where we were last year but with a much better defense this season.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2021, 10:39:59 AM
Both deep shots were not drawn up that way.
The first TD series was fantastic and then he completely went away from it. I just don't get it. Trevon Wesco was absolutely murdering Tennessee's front seven as a leader blocker.
Post by: Coach K on October 05, 2021, 10:51:55 AM
Our offense really stinks and LaFleur got bailed out by Zach Wilson making a couple of ridiculous, unscripted plays.This was infuriating . A fresreshingly efficient series followed by backyard football
Both deep shots were not drawn up that way.
The first TD series was fantastic and then he completely went away from it. I just don't get it. Trevon Wesco was absolutely murdering Tennessee's front seven as a leader blocker.
He needs to get his derriere in the booth and I don't care what Zach wilson wants lol Lafleur needs to see what he's actually calling
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 05, 2021, 11:30:57 AM
Our offense really stinks and LaFleur got bailed out by Zach Wilson making a couple of ridiculous, unscripted plays.That's what concerns me most about the offense. The biggest plays were off-script. Our normal, "boring" offense was still mostly terrible. And we still can't run the ball.
Both deep shots were not drawn up that way.
The first TD series was fantastic and then he completely went away from it. I just don't get it. Trevon Wesco was absolutely murdering Tennessee's front seven as a leader blocker.
That said, Wilson left a lot of throws out there that I've seen him make this season, especially in the 2nd half and OT. He made some great throws, but he made some terrible throws to open receivers.
A lot of the analytical folks also don't like how much we run on early downs. The idea of establishing the run is complicated. Yes, you want to have a good running game to help a rookie QB. But a bad running game helps nobody, and only puts the rookie QB in difficult situations. The running game needs to improve if we really want to be a run-first team.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2021, 11:46:17 AM
A lot of the analytical folks also don't like how much we run on early downs.
scum of the sports world
Post by: Johnny English on October 05, 2021, 12:07:31 PM
That's what concerns me most about the offense. The biggest plays were off-script.
Were they though? I'm rewatching the game now and while the rollout throw to Cole and the TD to Davis were definitely off script, there were loads of other big plays that weren't - the big throw to Davis that drew the PI, the TD pass for Crowder, even the pass to Crowder after the fumbled snap was the planned outcome of the play (albeit big credit to Zach for staying level headed there).
Looks to me like there was a clear plan to attack them downfield and trust the receivers to win their battles against a not brilliant secondary.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2021, 12:09:02 PM
Were they though? I'm rewatching the game now and while the rollout throw to Cole and the TD to Davis were definitely off script, there were loads of other big plays that weren't - the big throw to Davis that drew the PI, the TD pass for Crowder, even the pass to Crowder after the fumbled snap was the planned outcome of the play (albeit big credit to Zach for staying level headed there).
Looks to me like there was a clear plan to attack them downfield and trust the receivers to win their battles against a not brilliant secondary.
Over 100 yards of offense on broken plays
Post by: Johnny English on October 05, 2021, 12:15:01 PM
Over 100 yards of offense on broken plays
Are you including the Davis TD? Watching it again I'm not even convinced he wasn't supposed to roll out there. Obviously the throw was spectacular, and the running back missed a block, but he had receiving options stacking up down that side of the field.
Willing to be wrong on that one though.
Post by: Johnny English on October 05, 2021, 12:59:01 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 05, 2021, 01:15:43 PM
Add the OT pass to Cole to the list of clearly designed big downfield plays. I'm not defending Lafleur but a lot of this is not just Zach salvaging something from a broken derriere mess.The two biggest plays on our two biggest drives were both that though. We only had 355 yards of total offense in a game that went 69 minutes.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2021, 01:53:15 PM
Are you including the Davis TD?
Yes. That was certainly a broken play. He sent Davis deep.
Post by: Johnny English on October 05, 2021, 01:59:20 PM
Yes. That was certainly a broken play. He sent Davis deep.
He changed his route for sure, but if the play was designed for Zach to roll out and have his pick of receiving options with time, then I'm not sure you can describe that as broken.
Fully accept I could be dcm-ing here and making up things to suit my preferred narrative, but it didn't look like a play that was being invented on the spot.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
He changed his route for sure, but if the play was designed for Zach to roll out and have his pick of receiving options with time, then I'm not sure you can describe that as broken.
Fully accept I could be dcm-ing here and making up things to suit my preferred narrative, but it didn't look like a play that was being invented on the spot.
It was invented on the spot
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 05, 2021, 02:58:12 PM
I agree, the play was to roll out and give him options, but Wilson passed up those options and made something up on the fly.
Post by: Johnny English on October 05, 2021, 03:05:20 PM
It was absolutely invented on the spot, Wilson literally pointed at Davis where to go...
I agree, the play was to roll out and give him options, but Wilson passed up those options and made something up on the fly.
Well, then I think it's a semantics argument. If we're in agreement that the QB went where he was supposed to when he was supposed to, but then he changed the receiver's route (and I am not for a moment trying to deflect from the awesomeness of his confidence to do that and his talent to then execute it) then it's not broken or invented, IMO. He fine tuned the play that was called to extract the maximum return.
My point is, I don't think Lafleur did as badly Sunday as was suggested. I think a lot of the sloppiness was as much issues of execution as it was playcalling.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 05, 2021, 03:09:29 PM
Well, then I think it's a semantics argument. If we're in agreement that the QB went where he was supposed to when he was supposed to, but then he changed the receiver's route (and I am not for a moment trying to deflect from the awesomeness of his confidence to do that and his talent to then execute it) then it's not broken or invented, IMO. He fine tuned the play that was called to extract the maximum return.In general, playcalling is typically overrated IMO. If you properly execute them, most plays can succeed.
My point is, I don't think Lafleur did as badly Sunday as was suggested. I think a lot of the sloppiness was as much issues of execution as it was playcalling.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2021, 04:10:05 PM
In general, playcalling is typically overrated IMO. If you properly execute them, most plays can succeed.
what
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 06, 2021, 02:03:31 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 06, 2021, 02:19:10 PM
https://twitter.com/tejfbanalytics/status/1445824900686548995?s=21
Nice
Even adjusted with some formula we'd still have less points than any team in the league not adjusted
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 10, 2021, 11:29:17 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 10, 2021, 11:34:10 AM
If Zach doesn't go off script for some huge plays against the Titans, and Coleman has a huge kickoff return we might not score 20 all season long.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 10, 2021, 11:39:39 AM
He should be embarrassed by our disgraceful offense this season.My big concern after last week's game was that all our best plays were off-script. Today, those big plays didn't happen, and the offense was a trainwreck. That said, Wilson was really bad today, and a couple of those short passes should have been good plays for us if the throws weren't horrendous.
If Zach doesn't go off script for some huge plays against the Titans, and Coleman has a huge kickoff return we might not score 20 all season long.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 10, 2021, 11:54:13 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 10, 2021, 12:01:19 PM
Ok, I'll defend the guy. He's a young, rookie OC being the main guy for the first time. He's going to freak up some too. It's a bad spot having so much inexperience on the coaching side and at QB. I'm not gonna excrement myself until later in the year. But, don't be mistaken, I WILL excrement myself.It's a bad combination right now.
- OC isn't a good playcaller right now.
- QB isn't accurate or consistent and doesn't get the ball out on schedule enough
- Running game is mostly useless
- OL isn't consistent, and the breakdowns tend to happen at the worst possible times.
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2021, 12:07:24 PM
Ok, I'll defend the guy. He's a young, rookie OC being the main guy for the first time. He's going to freak up some too. It's a bad spot having so much inexperience on the coaching side and at QB. I'm not gonna excrement myself until later in the year. But, don't be mistaken, I WILL excrement myself.Lafleur has had 5 weeks to make the necessary adjustments and get it right... he hasn't. Granted, Wilson's accuracy suffered today....but Lafleur hasn't done him any favors either.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 10, 2021, 12:49:30 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
Him admitted this week that he didn’t really know how to get him going early in games is very telling.
We had a full offseason, an entire preseason, and four regular seasons games to figure this out and he’s still spinning his tires.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 11, 2021, 02:37:43 PM
Post by: reuben on October 11, 2021, 02:49:21 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 11, 2021, 05:09:39 PM
One of the peripheral tragedies of Greg Knapp's untimely passing is that it's an acceptable reason not to shitcan your offensive coordinator after his first season.Changing coordinators after one season seems like a bad thing for your young quarterback, especially when the coordinator is also new.
I do think he needs to make things easier early in the game for Wilson, and some of his playcalling isn't great, but I think the lack of execution makes the playcalling look a lot worse.
If it's still this bad after 16-17 games, maybe we consider it, but too early for me to put him on any hot seat.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2021, 05:13:20 PM
Changing coordinators after one season seems like a bad thing for your young quarterback, especially when the coordinator is also new.
But it worked so well last time we tried it.
Post by: reuben on October 11, 2021, 05:23:54 PM
Changing coordinators after one season seems like a bad thing for your young quarterback, especially when the coordinator is also new.
Hiring your best friend's kid brother to run half your team seems like a bad thing for a young quarterback too.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 11, 2021, 05:45:18 PM
Hiring your best friend's kid brother to run half your team seems like a bad thing for a young quarterback too.The best friend is a head coach in the NFL, and the kid brother has been a part of strong offenses and strong offensive coaching staffs. It's not like he's hiring his buddy from Michigan.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 11, 2021, 07:35:17 PM
At least Gase and Dowell were able to script up an opening drive that seemed to work some of the.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 11, 2021, 08:20:44 PM
I know we stealth hired that dude whose name I forget, but bring in an experienced old dude and let's call him an assistant head coach or something.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2021, 08:23:43 PM
More so than firing Lefleur would be bringing in another experienced body.
I know we stealth hired that dude whose name I forget, but bring in an experienced old dude and let's call him an assistant head coach or something.
You talking about Cavanaugh? Calabrese is the QB coach.
The decision to not have a vet QB on the sideline is looking worse by the week. I can not for the life of me understand why Mike White is on the sideline and Josh Johnson is in the press box.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2021, 08:45:56 PM
What did a vet QB do for Sanchez?
Not excrement
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2021, 08:48:03 PM
What did a vet QB do for Darnold?
What did a vet QB do for Sanchez?
Not excrement
Darnold was progressing nicely in his rookie year with McCown in his camp. It would be pure guesswork to project what would have happened if we'd kept him, but it certainly didn't hurt Sam.
Post by: Badger on October 11, 2021, 08:54:49 PM
Darnold was progressing nicely in his rookie year with McCown in his camp. It would be pure guesswork to project what would have happened if we'd kept him, but it certainly didn't hurt Sam.If the ceiling is "can't hurt" then it doesn't really seem like a glaring oversight.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 11, 2021, 08:55:20 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2021, 08:55:47 PM
If the ceiling is "can't hurt" then it doesn't really seem like a glaring oversight.
That's not the ceiling. The floor is "he's getting absolutely freak all help from Mike White".
Post by: Badger on October 11, 2021, 08:57:45 PM
That's not the ceiling. The floor is "he's getting absolutely freak all help from Mike White".There's little track record to suggest having a vet QB mentor makes a difference, but I agree that it would feel nice to have one.
Post by: Coach K on October 12, 2021, 01:56:02 PM
You don't come out the gates every week with play action deep without committing to the run
But we can't run
Not when you have horrible situational playcalling as well . I feel like we run when we should be passing and vice versa . Sounds like a vague generalization but im not a fan at all right now.
Soon as we meet any resistance we abandon the run and still call play action as if we're fooling anyone
At least empty the backfield of you're going to thinly veil your intent
Zach is also better in hurry up , we need to script a no huddle drive to open up the game imo and try anything other than what we're doing
I'm mot trying to absolve Wilson of the critical down and distance gimme throws he's missed. He's even said it himself
That being said it's on the coaching staff to make this kids job easier and nobody as done it. Not the OL not the WRs nobody .
Post by: Coach K on October 12, 2021, 02:08:35 PM
More horizontal route attacks short to intermediate
Get this kid confident in the pocket and the ball out of his hands instead of forcing him to play backyard ball when we're down in garbage time because we can't establish any sort of coherent gameplan or rhythm
Post by: Coach K on October 12, 2021, 02:11:35 PM
You can't tell me excrement about route trees when nobody is consistently open or making plays on a weekly basis
Stop the dual TE sets and get Davis and Mims outside and Crowder and Moore inside and let this kid sling it
Much better than a half hearted play action game asking Ty Johnson to get Wilson murdered
Post by: MexJetinBcn on October 12, 2021, 03:46:02 PM
You talking about Cavanaugh? Calabrese is the QB coach.
The decision to not have a vet QB on the sideline is looking worse by the week. I can not for the life of me understand why Mike White is on the sideline and Josh Johnson is in the press box.
Josh Johnson is on the sideline. At least he's been the last two games I've attended at MetLife, (didn't see him in London). He's the third QB but he's down there.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 12, 2021, 03:54:03 PM
Run game needs a little work
Post by: Johnny English on October 12, 2021, 04:16:22 PM
Josh Johnson is on the sideline. At least he's been the last two games I've attended at MetLife, (didn't see him in London). He's the third QB but he's down there.
You sure? Because as I understand it, practice squad players are not allowed to be on the sideline during a game.
Quote
When the team is playing a home game, practice squad players are allowed into the stadium, but they cannot be present on the sidelines. They are required to watch games from the locker room, or the stands.
https://franchisesports.co.uk/nfl-practice-squad-explained-salary-and-practice-squad-rules/
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 21, 2021, 02:24:52 PM
Quote
LaFleur said the #Jets script the first 24 plays, but it can change quickly. He added he “looked at himself hard” to figure out why it’s not working.
Gase cackling
Post by: bojanglesman on October 21, 2021, 02:29:38 PM
Gase cacklingI look at myself hard in the mirror sometimes. Kinda gross.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 21, 2021, 02:51:04 PM
Gase cacklingThat was literally the one thing Gase was good at.
Post by: Badger on October 21, 2021, 06:26:01 PM
I look at myself hard in the mirror sometimes. Kinda gross.Prungling
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2021, 04:25:18 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 25, 2021, 05:13:54 PM
Continues to blame the players by saying they're not executing...
Now that Wilson is out is there any chance he makes things easy instead of expecting a rookie to execute like he’s Aaron Rodgers out there?
Perhaps if he simplifies for White, we will see small amounts of positives happen and we might keep doing those things for Wilson when he returns…
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 25, 2021, 07:25:47 PM
Quote
LaFleur said they called two running plays to open the game “to ease” Zach Wilson into the game.
Damn this guy really does just straight up suck
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2021, 08:27:24 PM
Continues to blame the players by saying they're not executing...
We could have kept Adam Gase for this.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2021, 03:33:40 PM
Leave him in the booth.
Post by: Gorilla on October 31, 2021, 03:48:08 PM
Leave him in the booth.
This seems like a given to me.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 31, 2021, 03:50:58 PM
Great game by LaFleur. New quarterback, new location to call plays from, and new results.Don't even let him leave at all. Lock his derriere in there 24/7.
Leave him in the booth.
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2021, 03:54:41 PM
Don't even let him leave at all. Lock his derriere in there 24/7.
DJ Bien-Aime
@Djbienaime
·
20m
Robert Saleh says Mike LaFleur is staying up in the press box.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
DJ Bien-Aime
@Djbienaime
·
20m
Robert Saleh says Mike LaFleur is staying up in the press box.
Excellent.
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2021, 06:02:56 PM
DJ Bien-Aime
@Djbienaime
·
20m
Robert Saleh says Mike LaFleur is staying up in the press box.
How to tell someone doesn't watch hockey without them telling you they don't watch hockey.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2021, 09:57:12 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2021, 10:09:23 AM
Threw the ball on 9/10 first downs to start the game and every first half drive
Completely different than the first 6 games. Keep doing that.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2021, 12:09:27 PM
Quote
The Jets passed on 80% of their first downs yesterday. Their season average is 58%.
Hmmm
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2021, 01:15:40 PM
Hmmm
Normally I'd say that it makes sense to protect a rookie QB but White hadn't thrown a single regular season pass until two weeks ago so...?
Post by: bojanglesman on November 01, 2021, 01:22:50 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2021, 03:17:51 PM
Normally I'd say that it makes sense to protect a rookie QB but White hadn't thrown a single regular season pass until two weeks ago so...?It is smart.
The two best ways to protect a young QB are to run the ball and get a good short passing game going. We haven't run well all year, so we are trying the latter.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2021, 03:27:14 PM
It is smart.
The two best ways to protect a young QB are to run the ball and get a good short passing game going. We haven't run well all year, so we are trying the latter.
Yea but why did we wait until week 8 to try the latter?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2021, 03:35:01 PM
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2021, 03:53:14 PM
Yea but why did we wait until week 8 to try the latter?Excellent question.
Post by: Coach K on November 01, 2021, 05:08:48 PM
Turns out he's not retarded
He just needed to be in the booth like we've said all along .
45 dropbacks 2 sacks
Funny how better situational playcalling and the OL showing up actually makes a difference
Need to see some consistency before I hope for anything.
But a good game for the staff and team
Proves players aren't quitting and buying in .
If White shows anything resembling consistency Wilson needs to sit the rest of the yr when we have more talent and experience around him
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2021, 05:15:09 PM
Turns out he's not retarded
We don't know that yet
Post by: bojanglesman on November 01, 2021, 05:24:42 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2021, 06:21:15 PM
I need to see another good game before I call this anything other than a mirage.Greedy bastard
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 02, 2021, 07:52:36 AM
https://twitter.com/LegerDouzable/status/1455140917548044291?s=20
“Same offense”
“ Yesterday: pass 11 of first 15 plays (74%)
Wilson’s first 6 starts: pass 41 of 90 first 15 plays (46%).”
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 02, 2021, 07:54:50 AM
It is smart.
The two best ways to protect a young QB are to run the ball and get a good short passing game going. We haven't run well all year, so we are trying the latter.
Best way to protect a young QB is NOT to run on 1st down every time and predictable run downs, constantly putting your QB in 3rd and long. LaFleur has done the opposite the entire year up until Sunday.
Post by: Johnny English on November 02, 2021, 08:42:39 AM
Best way to protect a young QB is NOT to run on 1st down every time and predictable run downs, constantly putting your QB in 3rd and long. LaFleur has done the opposite the entire year up until Sunday.
Running on first down and predictable running downs is fine if your line is good enough to exert their will and produce a 3-5 yard gain most times, because if you can do that then you can really get the best out of play action. The problem is that our line is ranked bottom of the league for run production.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2021, 09:19:19 AM
The problem is that our line is ranked bottom of the league for run production.
Play calling can impact that too...
Post by: Johnny English on November 02, 2021, 09:42:16 AM
Play calling can impact that too...
Of course. I'm not excusing the play calling, I'm just saying that running a lot on first down isn't per se a bad idea, as long as you can do it effectively. That means the line executing, and the right running plays being called.
I think part of our problem is that we don't have a true power back, someone who can run into a pile of traffic and just dominate his way through an extra couple of yards to turn a 1 yard play into a 3 or 4 yard play.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2021, 09:43:55 AM
I think part of our problem is that we don't have a true power back, someone who can run into a pile of traffic and just dominate his way through an extra couple of yards to turn a 1 yard play into a 3 or 4 yard play.
I agree with this, but we also unfortunately don't play that style of football.
Post by: Johnny English on November 02, 2021, 09:49:49 AM
I agree with this, but we also unfortunately don't play that style of football.
Not deliberately, but when our line fails to execute their blocks effectively and there's nowhere for the back to go our only hope is that they can get as much as possible out of what's in front of them. I love Carter but at 5'8 200 he isn't making a dent in a pile of bodies. Johnson is probably the most aggressive runner we have.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2021, 10:05:03 AM
Johnson is probably the most aggressive runner we have.
Perine and Coleman are both better runners than Ty Johnson.
Johnson has at least flashed as a receiver in a couple games.
Post by: Johnny English on November 02, 2021, 10:11:21 AM
Perine and Coleman are both better runners than Ty Johnson.
Johnson has at least flashed as a receiver in a couple games.
Agreed on all that. Johnson is fast and likes contact, but he doesn't have great vision.
The only back we have worth anything is Carter. The rest are JAGs.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2021, 10:13:55 AM
The only back we have worth anything is Carter. The rest are JAGs.
There's some good backs in this draft class. I'd take Kenneth Walker III or Brian Robinson Jr. in the second round depending on how free agency goes.
Both would pair well with Michael Carter.
Post by: Johnny English on November 02, 2021, 10:15:51 AM
There's some good backs in this draft class. I'd take Kenneth Walker III or Brian Robinson Jr. in the second round depending on how free agency goes.
Both would pair well with Michael Carter.
(https://i.imgur.com/oIViv4x.png)
Post by: Badger on November 02, 2021, 10:23:28 AM
“Same offense”Yeah I didn't check the numbers but his assertion definitely felt wrong.
“ Yesterday: pass 11 of first 15 plays (74%)
Wilson’s first 6 starts: pass 41 of 90 first 15 plays (46%).”
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 02, 2021, 10:40:19 AM
Now, we have our best offensive game of the season, in large part because we threw more on early downs, and now we all seem to be in agreement that that was the right thing to do the whole time.
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2021, 10:41:26 AM
I just find it funny how if you click back a few pages, people were arguing we weren't running the ball enough. I was arguing we were running the ball too much on early downs, and people disagreed.
Now, we have our best offensive game of the season, in large part because we threw more on early downs, and now we all seem to be in agreement that that was the right thing to do the whole time.
yeah but...you're still wrong 101% of the time.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 02, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Passing >>> Running on 1st down.
I would be happy with something just closer to a 50/50 split rather than 80% runs on first down. It’s too predictable with a rookie QB and our run blocking is way too bad (32nd in NFL) to also let the opposing D know what’s coming.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2021, 12:13:18 PM
He also called a ton of quick zone beaters and White got it out quickly.
We haven't seen that for Wilson.
Post by: Coach K on November 02, 2021, 12:25:54 PM
We don't know that yetTime will tell . But I hope this was a major fix for him
Post by: Coach K on November 02, 2021, 12:26:12 PM
LaFleur definitely called more screens against Cincy. Easy completions.The zone beaters comment is spot on.
He also called a ton of quick zone beaters and White got it out quickly.
We haven't seen that for Wilson.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 02, 2021, 01:04:08 PM
LaFleur definitely called more screens against Cincy. Easy completions.
He also called a ton of quick zone beaters and White got it out quickly.
We haven't seen that for Wilson.
I thought running zone beaters was what didn't work in Denver?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2021, 01:07:33 PM
I thought running zone beaters was what didn't work in Denver?
They weren't playing zone. Fangio owned LaFleur and Wilson.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 02, 2021, 01:16:06 PM
And now that we have a guy like John Beck in tow, there are more guys Zach trusts that he can communicate with directly on the sideline.
I wonder if LaFleur would have been in the booth all season if Knapp were still alive.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 04, 2021, 11:35:01 PM
With the success White and Johnson had, I expect Wilson to be able to have more consistent success. I am much more confident in Lafleur putting him in good spots.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 05, 2021, 12:07:40 AM
I think it is pretty clear that the OC is not the problem. Clearly he has gotten better since moving to the booth. How much better is up for debate, but he is NFL-caliber.
With the success White and Johnson had, I expect Wilson to be able to have more consistent success. I am much more confident in Lafleur putting him in good spots.
How can you not be?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 05, 2021, 01:13:23 AM
Post by: insanity on November 05, 2021, 06:49:52 AM
“Hey pass it to dat guy ova dere”And den he's gonna pass it back to youh
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 05, 2021, 08:29:19 AM
And den he's gonna pass it back to youh
waitasekent nawt dat guy, DAT guy
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 11, 2021, 10:47:15 AM
Post by: Johnny English on November 11, 2021, 10:50:37 AM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1458213415122571269?s=21
Geno Smith confirmed better than Zach Wilson or Mike White, getting rid of him was clearly a huge mistake.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 11, 2021, 10:52:58 AM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1458213415122571269?s=21Makes sense. Mike White makes some sketchy throws and a lot of easy dump-offs. I think he will prove to be a one game wonder as a starter, but that doesn't mean he can't be a competent backup for years. I think that when he's forced to throw downfield, he will flop.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 11, 2021, 10:54:12 AM
Makes sense. Mike White makes some sketchy throws and a lot of easy dump-offs. I think he will prove to be a one game wonder as a starter, but that doesn't mean he can't be a competent backup for years. I think that when he's forced to throw downfield, he will flop.
He was playing well against Indy before he got hurt.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 11, 2021, 10:59:41 AM
He was playing well against Indy before he got hurt.
He's going to have multiple turnovers this week. If I'm wrong, put it on the pile of other times I've been wrong. I hope I am wrong, I'm pulling for the guy.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 11, 2021, 12:40:48 PM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1458213415122571269?s=21Goes to show how bizarre and useless many of these extremely obscure statistics are.
Mike Whites sample size anemicaly small, and includes the literal best 1st game ever for a QB as his only full game played. Yet he somehow is dead last in the league on that chart.
Post by: insanity on November 11, 2021, 01:18:18 PM
Goes to show how bizarre and useless many of these extremely obscure statistics are.The chart doesn't measure who is a good qb or a bad quarterback, but rather are you conservative or aggressive and how bad is your decision making.
Mike Whites sample size anemicaly small, and includes the literal best 1st game ever for a QB as his only full game played. Yet he somehow is dead last in the league on that chart.
Mike was superconservative and has made a number of bad decisions in his 1.5 starts (pats-colts)
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 11, 2021, 01:58:50 PM
The chart doesn't measure who is a good qb or a bad quarterback, but rather are you conservative or aggressive and how bad is your decision making.Exactly. Granted, I think a few of his interceptions were unlucky, and some of his bad decisions came at the end of the Patriots game in garbage time.
Mike was superconservative and has made a number of bad decisions in his 1.5 starts (pats-colts)
There was no reason to be aggressive in his start against Cincy. The defense gave him short passes, and he took advantage.
He made a nice crossing route to Moore down the field against the Colts, but he was hurt before we could see how he could do with some more downfield passing.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 11, 2021, 03:23:40 PM
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2021, 10:35:18 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 24, 2021, 11:16:09 AM
https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1463259888847630338?t=DFxCB-U7l-q1z2nM0jdGdw&s=19
I’d love to see a breakdown of our yardage by quarter. My guess is with us getting blown out in basically all of those games, we have a very large quantity of 4th quarter blow out yardage.
That said it’s quite clear our offense has moved the ball pretty regularly all game long the past month, and that’s all we ever wanted to see this year.
Now next year if we can not have a historically bad defense AND some incremental offensive improvement? Then we will be cooking with gas
Post by: Badger on December 02, 2021, 10:43:09 AM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1466446898605211651?t=FnmJpqPzNKkXKSK-SFBnBQ&s=19
Post by: reuben on December 02, 2021, 10:55:38 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 02, 2021, 11:12:49 AM
OC Jesse Pinkman
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1466446898605211651?t=FnmJpqPzNKkXKSK-SFBnBQ&s=19
I'd have gone for OC Marshall Mathers, but both work.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 02, 2021, 11:34:12 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 15, 2021, 11:20:47 AM
Not ideal
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2021, 10:04:02 PM
Not scoring a touchdown on the drive where he tried that reverse pass back to Wilson was pretty bad.
He got completely owned by Miami’s second half adjustments too.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2021, 10:09:47 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 21, 2021, 12:51:02 PM
Post by: insanity on December 21, 2021, 01:25:31 PM
Yeah, I still don’t think this guy is any good (but I do think he can improve).He is the best we've had since...
Post by: MBGreen on December 21, 2021, 01:34:48 PM
He is the best we've had since...
Dowell Loggains
Post by: Badger on December 21, 2021, 01:59:40 PM
He is the best we've had since...I'm a firm believer that Jeremy Bates wasn't bad.
Post by: insanity on December 21, 2021, 02:07:00 PM
I'm a firm believer that Jeremy Bates wasn't bad.The grass is always greener.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 21, 2021, 02:15:20 PM
I'm a firm believer that Jeremy Bates wasn't bad.Maybe year 1 Gailey?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 21, 2021, 02:54:59 PM
I'm a firm believer that Jeremy Bates wasn't bad.
Didn't the whole locker room tell him to go freak himself?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 03:32:06 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 03:43:40 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 03:53:30 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 21, 2021, 03:55:45 PM
At the bare minimum I was expecting competency and the simple fact that it's debatable whether we've even gotten that so far is disappointing and not very encouraging for the future. You have to have blind faith that everyone involved in the offense is going to take a huge leap from year one to year two and I don't know how reasonable it is to believe/expect that.You could make the exact same post and substitute the word "defense" for "offense." The only difference is that it's not debatable whether we've gotten competency - we haven't
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 04:00:23 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 04:05:16 PM
You could make the exact same post and substitute the word "defense" for "offense." The only difference is that it's not debatable whether we've gotten competency - we haven't
Oh, for sure, but I haven't looked as closely at that so I'm even less certain how much blame should be laid at the coordinator's feet vs the players'.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 04:09:31 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 21, 2021, 04:30:11 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 04:36:10 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 21, 2021, 04:38:04 PM
And it baffles my mind that LaFleur isn't at least competent after spending so much time with Shanahan and his brother. You would think he'd at least be able to copy/paste their offenses...
You can have the entire playbook, but if you don’t know when and why to call plays, it doesn’t matter.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 04:40:45 PM
You can have the entire playbook, but if you don’t know when and why to call plays, it doesn’t matter.
By your estimation, how likely do you think it is that he figures that out by year two?
Post by: reuben on December 21, 2021, 04:42:13 PM
Ulbrich, on the other hand, is terrible. The sooner Saleh takes over play-calling duties, the better.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 21, 2021, 04:55:26 PM
By your estimation, how likely do you think it is that he figures that out by year two?
He needs help. I think Saleh absolutely has to go out and hire a veteran QB coach and/or a run game coordinator for LaFleur.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 05:03:55 PM
He needs help. I think Saleh absolutely has to go out and hire a veteran QB coach and/or a run game coordinator for LaFleur.
Isn't Cavanaugh the veteran QB coach and Benton the run game coordinator?
Post by: reuben on December 21, 2021, 05:04:51 PM
He needs help. I think Saleh absolutely has to go out and hire a veteran QB coach and/or a run game coordinator for LaFleur.
I do wonder how this season would have looked had Knapp been on the staff.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 21, 2021, 05:05:43 PM
Isn't Cavanaugh the veteran QB coach and Benton the run game coordinator?
Cavanaugh is a consultant. Maybe give him more responsibility, if he is staying on. Benton seems to stink too.
Losing Knapp hurt a lot.
Post by: Johnny English on December 21, 2021, 05:06:06 PM
You can have the entire playbook, but if you don’t know when and why to call plays, it doesn’t matter.
Critical Gase Theory
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 05:07:23 PM
I do wonder how this season would have looked had Knapp been on the staff.
What would have happened if Mo Lewis hadn't made that tackle? What would have happened if that kid hadn't been texting and driving?
Post by: bojanglesman on December 21, 2021, 05:08:00 PM
Critical Gase TheoryIt's more real.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 05:11:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1qju6V1jLM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 21, 2021, 05:32:22 PM
Cavanaugh is a consultant. Maybe give him more responsibility, if he is staying on. Benton seems to stink too.
Losing Knapp hurt a lot.
Benton's been coaching offensive lines forever. He's actually the most experienced coach on the staff. If he stinks then we're really in deep excrement.
I'm really not sure what to make of Cavanaugh. Losing Knapp how and when we did was devastating.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 19, 2022, 11:33:41 AM
Berrios revealed today this play was closed “Cocaine”
Post by: bojanglesman on January 19, 2022, 11:36:22 AM
https://twitter.com/boygreen25/status/1472696581325565961?s=21Tommy's favorite play.
Berrios revealed today this play was closed “Cocaine”
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 03:46:29 PM
If the Jets are going to take the next step into being a contender, Saleh will need to take a hard look at MLF's scheme and playcalling.
I believe the Jets have the talent to win games, but we need someone who knows how to unlock the talent a lot better than MLF.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 03:50:27 PM
Yes, i know we won today. But this guy stinks.LaFleur isn't perfect, but I still think he's shown more positives than either Saleh or Ulbrich since they've been hired.
If the Jets are going to take the next step into being a contender, Saleh will need to take a hard look at MLF's scheme and playcalling.
I believe the Jets have the talent to win games, but we need someone who knows how to unlock the talent a lot better than MLF.
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 03:52:41 PM
LaFleur isn't perfect, but I still think he's shown more positives than either Saleh or Ulbrich since they've been hired.
No he hasn't.
Post by: reuben on October 02, 2022, 03:55:11 PM
I liked MLF's first quarter script, I thought it was balanced and effective. But as soon as he needs to start calling plays on the fly, he quite literally doesn't realize how much he's throwing the ball. Then the talent needs to either bail him out or succumb to their fate to finish the game.
There's no reason we shouldn't be running the ball as much or more than we're passing the ball in our current situation.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 04:03:00 PM
Saleh once said something to the effect of the first quarter is about the script, the second and third are about the coaching/playcalling, and the fourth quarter is about the talent.No team runs it more than they pass though. The only teams that are close have mobile quarterbacks who can't throw (49ers, Bears).
I liked MLF's first quarter script, I thought it was balanced and effective. But as soon as he needs to start calling plays on the fly, he quite literally doesn't realize how much he's throwing the ball. Then the talent needs to either bail him out or succumb to their fate to finish the game.
There's no reason we shouldn't be running the ball as much or more than we're passing the ball in our current situation.
Could we run it more? Sure. But the running game hasn't been that effective. And when you trail by double digits in the 4th quarter in every game, it's hard to keep running for 3 yards per carry.
Post by: Badger on October 02, 2022, 04:05:37 PM
Saleh once said something to the effect of the first quarter is about the script, the second and third are about the coaching/playcalling, and the fourth quarter is about the talent.The fact that we're total derriere in the 3rd qtr but sometimes good in the 4th makes this funny.
I liked MLF's first quarter script, I thought it was balanced and effective. But as soon as he needs to start calling plays on the fly, he quite literally doesn't realize how much he's throwing the ball. Then the talent needs to either bail him out or succumb to their fate to finish the game.
There's no reason we shouldn't be running the ball as much or more than we're passing the ball in our current situation.
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 04:06:27 PM
No team runs it more than they pass though. The only teams that are close have mobile quarterbacks who can't throw (49ers, Bears).
Could we run it more? Sure. But the running game hasn't been that effective. And when you trail by double digits in the 4th quarter in every game, it's hard to keep running for 3 yards per carry.
the running game isn't effective because we're running it out of the shotgun most of the time. Defenders are in the backfield before our backs can do anything with it.
Post by: reuben on October 02, 2022, 04:08:20 PM
No team runs it more than they pass though.
The Steelers just did, and it would have been a successful gameplan if not for their four interceptions.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 04:14:58 PM
The Steelers just did, and it would have been a successful gameplan if not for their four interceptions.So you want to model your offense after the Steelers?
The Steelers had 2 touchdowns all game, and one was because they got the ball on the 4 yard line. Their kicker hit two 50-yard bombs for the other points.
Not to mention, the Steelers have a 69% designed pass rate this season. Today was an outlier.
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 04:15:52 PM
So you want to model your offense after the Steelers?
The Steelers had 2 touchdowns all game, and one was because they got the ball on the 4 yard line. Their kicker hit two 50-yard bombs for the other points.
Not to mention, the Steelers have a 69% designed pass rate this season. Today was an outlier.
what's wrong with establishing a solid run game and using playaction off of it?
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 04:17:18 PM
what's wrong with establishing a solid run game and using playaction off of it?Nothing?
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 04:21:02 PM
Nothing?
then why are you complaining against establishing a run game?
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 04:25:22 PM
then why are you complaining against establishing a run game?All I said was I don't want to run the ball on 50% of our plays because this isn't 1970. Especially when we've been trailing big in every game.
Of course I would love a solid run game and play action. I would like whatever moves the ball and puts up points. But the best offenses in the NFL these days are based around the passing game, not the running game. The only teams that build around the running game are teams without good quarterbacks (see: Steelers). And teams without good quarterbacks rarely win anything anyway.
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 04:31:22 PM
All I said was I don't want to run the ball on 50% of our plays because this isn't 1970. Especially when we've been trailing big in every game.
Of course I would love a solid run game and play action. I would like whatever moves the ball and puts up points. But the best offenses in the NFL these days are based around the passing game, not the running game. The only teams that build around the running game are teams without good quarterbacks (see: Steelers). And teams without good quarterbacks rarely win anything anyway.
Aaron Rodgers - Dillon/Jones
Tom Brady - Fournette
Pat Mahomes - CEH
Justin Herbert - Ekeler
Josh Allen - Singletary/Cook/Moss
Lamar Jackson - JK Dobbins/GusBus
the elite QBs in this league all have solid run games. You can't focus on the pass and ignore the run. You have to build both.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 02, 2022, 04:42:22 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 04:44:02 PM
Aaron Rodgers - Dillon/JonesThank you for proving my point. Out of the 6 teams you made, 4 of them rank in the top 5 in highest passing rates since the start of last season (Chiefs, Chargers, Bills, Bucs).
Tom Brady - Fournette
Pat Mahomes - CEH
Justin Herbert - Ekeler
Josh Allen - Singletary/Cook/Moss
Lamar Jackson - JK Dobbins/GusBus
the elite QBs in this league all have solid run games. You can't focus on the pass and ignore the run. You have to build both.
I agree you need both. But those teams are all built around the passing games.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2022, 04:50:34 PM
We're facing an uphill battle establishing the running game with the OLine injuries we have right now. Mitchell on crutches and AVT at LT isn't going to make it easier.
is mitchell actually on crutches
why are you hurting me
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 04:53:34 PM
Thank you for proving my point. Out of the 6 teams you made, 4 of them rank in the top 5 in highest passing rates since the start of last season (Chiefs, Chargers, Bills, Bucs).
I agree you need both. But those teams are all built around the passing games.
You don't have a passing game without a run game....that's my point. i didn't prove your point at all.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 04:55:54 PM
You don't have a passing game without a run game....that's my point. i didn't prove your point at all.Dude, you literally pointed out 4 of the most unbalanced offenses in the NFL to prove that you need balance.
You think the Bills have a balanced offense? Or the Chiefs?
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 05:00:08 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 05:01:00 PM
Dude, you literally pointed out 4 of the most unbalanced offenses in the NFL to prove that you need balance.
You think the Bills have a balanced offense? Or the Chiefs?
The Bills run the ball alot, especially with their QB.
The Chiefs also have a history of running the ball a ton (K.hunt, D.Williams, CEH...take your pick).
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 05:01:39 PM
I thought today was a good level of balance, even if the plays weren't always successful.
i wanted MLF's head on a pike by the end of the 3rd quarter.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2022, 05:02:17 PM
We're facing an uphill battle establishing the running game with the OLine injuries we have right now. Mitchell on crutches and AVT at LT isn't going to make it easier.
We need to abandon the inside/outside zone from the gun and go under center more.
Hall ran the ball well once on an outside zone. The rest of those plays were dead in the water.
Our best run plays came out of two back with ...Michael Carter... as a lead blocker. That looks like a traditional two back sweep to me.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 02, 2022, 05:08:42 PM
We need to abandon the inside/outside zone from the gun and go under center more.
Hall ran the ball well once on an outside zone. The rest of those plays were dead in the water.
Our best run plays came out of two back with ...Michael Carter... as a lead blocker. That looks like a traditional two back sweep to me.
I liked that play.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 05:13:03 PM
i wanted MLF's head on a pike by the end of the 3rd quarter.Zach missed a lot of throws and the receivers didn't help him.
Overall, I think we had 39 dropbacks (59%) and 27 designed runs (41%). A 60/40 split is slightly more run-heavy than league average. I'm cool with that. We weren't really running or throwing it that well for most of the game, so if we have a game where we're running well, we can run it more. If we're passing well, we can pass it more.
We also were running better out of shotgun than under center entering this week. Haven't seen the splits this week.
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2022, 05:19:04 PM
Zach missed a lot of throws and the receivers didn't help him.
Overall, I think we had 39 dropbacks (59%) and 27 designed runs (41%). A 60/40 split is slightly more run-heavy than league average. I'm cool with that. We weren't really running or throwing it that well for most of the game, so if we have a game where we're running well, we can run it more. If we're passing well, we can pass it more.
We also were running better out of shotgun than under center entering this week. Haven't seen the splits this week.
lol
running better out of the shotgun?! no we're not.
I give up though...i have no idea what you're watching, but it certainly can't be the game. I can't argue against make-believe.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2022, 05:25:57 PM
lol4.8 yards per carry out of shotgun compared to 4.1 yards per carry under center entering this week.
running better out of the shotgun?! no we're not.
I give up though...i have no idea what you're watching, but it certainly can't be the game. I can't argue against make-believe.
I'm not saying that the Jets need to run more out of shotgun than under center.. All I'm saying is it's not as bad as most of you guys are saying.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2022, 05:30:54 PM
We need to abandon the inside/outside zone from the gun and go under center more.
Hall ran the ball well once on an outside zone. The rest of those plays were dead in the water.
Our best run plays came out of two back with ...Michael Carter... as a lead blocker. That looks like a traditional two back sweep to me.
out of the shotgun hall had two decent runs on outside zones. he had one good run for decent yardage running inside sometime in the second or third quarter. but every other run from the gun went up the middle and either went for little yardage or for losses in the backfield lol. we kept going back to it, i don't know. at least we started to run PAs from the gun in the 4th; one of them got conklin very open.
i remember carter running outside once for ~4-5 yards but i forget whether we ran that from the gun or from under center.
i get that our OL is beat up but i'm not sure why we weren't running more designed runs/tosses to the outside from under center. i feel like we did very well with those plays the latter half of the season last year
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2022, 05:47:43 PM
i remember carter running outside once for ~4-5 yards but i forget whether we ran that from the gun or from under center.
He had two 5 yard runs from an under center formation and then LaFleur followed up both of those plays with empty looks
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2022, 05:15:27 PM
The sack that went for a huge loss. Perfectly timed safety blitz by Miami and Wilson tried to get out of it, but what an awful play design. It looks like GW was faking sweep and then peeling back out for a throwback screen. Miami had three defenders just sitting there waiting for it if Zach had made the throw. Losing yards and not making the throw was a blessing in disguise.
The 4th and 2 in the third quarter: coming out in offset I-formation then calling a timeout...only to line up in 5 wide empty was some of the dumbest coaching I've seen from this crew. It was a great, aggressive call to go for it but the playcall stunk. Conklin was open on the left after shaking free on a quick out but you need to either run the football there or go play action. No reason to show pass in short yardage like that. Just bonehead coaching.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2022, 05:21:24 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2022, 05:24:20 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2022, 05:28:42 PM
I really don't like Mike Lafleur.
It felt like someone told him to run the football this week.
Only one screen yesterday and it was to Berrios. Carter scored a couple TDs (that really belonged to Hall) yesterday. He's been pretty ineffective as a runner. We need to get him involved in the passing game.
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2022, 05:40:43 PM
It felt like someone told him to run the football this week.I dont like that our OC needs to be told what to do....get rid of this fraud, and bring in someone who's capable of unlocking the talent on this offense.
Only one screen yesterday and it was to Berrios. Carter scored a couple TDs (that really belonged to Hall) yesterday. He's been pretty ineffective as a runner. We need to get him involved in the passing game.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2022, 05:47:53 PM
I dont like that our OC needs to be told what to do....get rid of this fraud, and bring in someone who's capable of unlocking the talent on this offense.
I'm week-to-week with MLF. He made some stupid calls this week, as usual...but he also made some really good ones: the big pass play to Hall and the play-action deep out to Davis in the fourth
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2022, 05:58:44 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 10, 2022, 11:50:58 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 17, 2022, 09:12:39 AM
How much of this is on MLF's garbage plays and play calling and what's on Zach? I think if the play design is excrement, then Zach can't succeed.
I want to believe in Zach, but if MLF is the second coming of Gase, then we need to move on ASAP.
Post by: MBGreen on October 17, 2022, 09:22:10 AM
Our struggles in the passing game are getting really concerning. Appears we can't make the simplest of completions. Too many times on pass attempts, Zach runs 30 yards all over the field just to throw it out of bounds or makes a shitty throw.
How much of this is on MLF's garbage plays and play calling and what's on Zach? I think if the play design is excrement, then Zach can't succeed.
I want to believe in Zach, but if MLF is the second coming of Gase, then we need to move on ASAP.
Zach was holding onto the ball way too long. He's either taking forever to go through his reads, or his receivers aren't getting open. I think it's a combination of the former and indecision on the part of Zach. Zach is killer in the 4th quarter, but his game still needs to improve dramatically.
Either way, it needs to be corrected ASAP. This falls on MLF and Zach collectively.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 17, 2022, 09:53:08 AM
There were a few issues from yesterday that stood out to me:
-Targeting GW so heavily in the first half, especially when he was covered by Jaire Alexander
-Both Wilsons misjudging where the first down marker was (Zach on his slide, Garrett on at least one of his routes)
-Zach hanging in the pocket too long
-Related to the above, Zach having the athleticism to pull it down and run but not doing it
-Passing on first down on just about every series
I know a couple of those are definitely the work of LaFleur, that last one especially, but some of them could also be Wilson. I also noticed that a few of them disappeared after the second half which I think reasonably can be attributed to adjustments by the coaching staff. I know LaFleur scripts out at least a couple of series in the first half, not sure how many, and the team practices that script during the week so maybe Zach was trying too hard to execute like they did in practice instead of . The passing game opened up slightly in the second half when we started getting other receiver options involved (Usomah, Davis, Carter, Berrios) and the offense in general clicked better as we went more under center and less in the shotgun.
We also saw Zach calm down a bit. Part of his transition from NCAA to NFL starter, especially this season, is that the offense is asking him to change the way he plays. At BYU he seemed to be more of a QB who threw it down the field or on the move and the CS wants him to get more comfortable at hanging in the pocket and as a result his internal clock is getting a little screwed up while he grows into a new role. The reluctance to run could also be part of his knee injury from the preseason. Not sure if it's giving him issues, him deciding to do it less, or the CS telling him to back off of it but there were at least two plays where I thought he had a chance to scramble for a gain and instead wound up throwing it away or attempting a throw to a WR who just wasn't that open in the first place. He's also getting flustered when he's pressured; 1-7 when pressured yesterday as opposed to 9-11 when's kept clean. I'm expecting the quantity of pressured plays will drop as the OLine continues to gel together but one thing he is going to need to do is learn how to calm down under pressure.
I think part of the problem is that we're working with an OC who is only on his second year of the job trying to develop a QB who is only in his second year as a starter. We're going to experience a lot of growing pains with both of them but as of right now with both LaFleur and Zach Wilson we're 4-2, Wilson has no turnovers in the last two games, and our third and fourth quarter performance is getting better. I'm not thrilled with the offense right now but I can see that there are improvements being made and I don't have any reason to believe that we're going to stall here. One thing I think LaFleur is shooting himself in the foot with is that he's trying to call the game like he has a more experienced QB in the game and just wants to keep going until Zach gets it. LaFleur needs to make it easier for Zach earlier in the game but Zach needs to calm down and see the whole field in the first two quarters.
Post by: Johnny English on October 17, 2022, 10:01:31 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 17, 2022, 10:12:54 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 17, 2022, 10:15:27 AM
This is also our 2nd-best offense in the last decade, so even if we can nitpick certain playcalls, overall, he is doing a good job. We have had bottom-10 quarterback play in the NFL this year, but we've had an effective offense most of the season. We've also been creative and effective in the red zone.
It's a little premature to say MLF is doing a good job. Our next 3 opponents all have solid run defenses. We're not going to get very far if Zach continues to pass for a single yard in the first half of games.
Post by: delavan on October 17, 2022, 12:32:09 PM
Zach was holding onto the ball way too long.Peripherally spitballing here. Saleh brought Miles Austin (NJ native, Monmouth College) with him and installed him as an NFL WR coach in 2021 after only beginning his coaching career altogether in 2019 in a quality control capacity. While there's no way they could pry e.g. a Brian Hartline away from OSU I do wonder what the impact of a proven and experienced WR coach would be. As for LeFleur, why would Elijah Moore just as well have been tailgating yesterday?
He's either taking forever to go through his reads,
or his receivers aren't getting open. I think it's a combination of the former and indecision on the part of Zach. Zach is killer in the 4th quarter, but his game still needs to improve dramatically.
Either way, it needs to be corrected ASAP. This falls on MLF and Zach collectively.
Agree about Zach needing to step it up.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 17, 2022, 12:37:33 PM
It's a little premature to say MLF is doing a good job. Our next 3 opponents all have solid run defenses. We're not going to get very far if Zach continues to pass for a single yard in the first half of games.I agree we aren't going to get very far if Zach continues to struggle, but we've had Zach and Flacco all year, and we've mostly found ways to move the ball. We've had bottom 10 QB play but we aren't a bottom 10 offense with a young team and a shuffling offensive line. The Dolphins game was one of the best-called games we've seen on offense in a while. He has room to grow, but it seems every time he has one questionable playcall, people jump down his throat, yet he gets no credit when the offense moves the ball.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 17, 2022, 01:09:33 PM
Breece is absolutely deadly when he runs left or right of the guards. But early on, MLF had him going right up the middle. That would be okay if you mix in PA, but for the first half, he didn't bother.
That changed in the second half. There were a couple of PAs that the defense reacted to as Breece runs and Zach was able to make something happen.
LaFleur has to start using playaction earlier. Also designing more short passes to TEs and RBs and getting Moore and maybe Berrios involved. Zach holds the ball way too long, but part of that is too many receivers going deep all the time. I somewhat allowed the excuse of playing behind causing the repeated home runs swings but they're doing it with leads now too.
And FFS, put Zach under center and stop the constant shotgun bullshit. Particularly the empty backfield shotgun!
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 17, 2022, 01:19:31 PM
I think MLF has been creating problems but he also seemed to solve a big one later in the game yesterday.Zach has abysmal numbers under center. 5-15 for 94 yards this season. It's almost entirely play action. I'm not opposed to mixing it in more, but Zach has clearly been better in shotgun in his career, especially this year.
Breece is absolutely deadly when he runs left or right of the guards. But early on, MLF had him going right up the middle. That would be okay if you mix in PA, but for the first half, he didn't bother.
That changed in the second half. There were a couple of PAs that the defense reacted to as Breece runs and Zach was able to make something happen.
LaFleur has to start using playaction earlier. Also designing more short passes to TEs and RBs and getting Moore and maybe Berrios involved. Zach holds the ball way too long, but part of that is too many receivers going deep all the time. I somewhat allowed the excuse of playing behind causing the repeated home runs swings but they're doing it with leads now too.
And FFS, put Zach under center and stop the constant shotgun bullshit. Particularly the empty backfield shotgun!
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 17, 2022, 03:56:52 PM
Zach has abysmal numbers under center. 5-15 for 94 yards this season. It's almost entirely play action. I'm not opposed to mixing it in more, but Zach has clearly been better in shotgun in his career, especially this year.
If Zach's snaps under center are almost entirely playaction (and assumingly hand-offs) maybe that's part of the problem? He's in shotgun a lot. And the vast majority of the time as a pass play. He may as well come out of huddle announcing "I'm throwing it!"
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 05:53:01 PM
If the QB is struggling, why keep putting the ball in his hands?
The last drive didn’t skew these numbers that much. LaFleur is putting too much on a pretty bad player.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 30, 2022, 05:55:41 PM
https://twitter.com/briancoz/status/1586829485135245312?s=46&t=59o_toNJOZzsUxzmL4ppkQ
If the QB is struggling, why keep putting the ball in his hands?
The last drive didn’t skew these numbers that much. LaFleur is putting too much on a pretty bad player.
Honest to god it’s like he thinks Zach is actually Aaron Rodgers from 15 years ago. The kid isn’t good enough to do this. And frankly the whole second half we kept throwing and magically watching their lead increase by three after we gave them short field after short field. I’m fairly confident they had the ball for 35 minutes and we outgained them by close to 100 yards.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 06:01:40 PM
This was the 2nd-most effective game on a yards-per-play basis in Zach's career. Zach made some plays. But Zach's bad plays are godawful, and he clearly lost confidence down the stretch.
I would have run the ball a little more today, but I was fine being pass-first. We had one run over 7 yards, and it came after we were down 2 scores. The running game wasn't really working in our first game without Breece. Our RB2 wasn't even on the team until Monday.
My main issue with LaFleur is he throws the ball too much on 3rd and short. I would like to run it more on 3rd and 1 and 3rd and 2. To me, that's exactly when you should be running the ball, and we throw it a lot there.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 30, 2022, 06:37:14 PM
We averaged 3.4 yards per rush and 7.8 yards per dropback.
This was the 2nd-most effective game on a yards-per-play basis in Zach's career. Zach made some plays. But Zach's bad plays are godawful, and he clearly lost confidence down the stretch.
I would have run the ball a little more today, but I was fine being pass-first. We had one run over 7 yards, and it came after we were down 2 scores. The running game wasn't really working in our first game without Breece. Our RB2 wasn't even on the team until Monday.
My main issue with LaFleur is he throws the ball too much on 3rd and short. I would like to run it more on 3rd and 1 and 3rd and 2. To me, that's exactly when you should be running the ball, and we throw it a lot there.
That's because he's freaking shithead.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 06:42:41 PM
Zach may be a turd...we're gonna find out eventually. But his rope is a LOT longer than MLF's.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 06:50:02 PM
Mack is gonna hate this but if it comes down to Zach or MLF...Zach will win. He'll get another OC (a real OC hopefully the next time around) before he's labeled a bust and put out to pasture.So you think Saleh is going to fire LaFleur this year if Zach keeps sucking? I don't agree.
Zach may be a turd...we're gonna find out eventually. But his rope is a LOT longer than MLF's.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 06:58:28 PM
So you think Saleh is going to fire LaFleur this year if Zach keeps sucking? I don't agree.
If Zach quietly bitches to Saleh or JD about MLF...yeah, he's gone.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:01:21 PM
Having a former quality control coach (Calabrese) as the QB coach hasn't helped either. But you need to get off MLF's dick, he hasn't been good. And before you recite some bullshit about last season, we were 4-13. So you can stop right there.
Now we know why Shanahan allowed Lafleur to go to NY and told Saleh "hands off" when he asked for McDaniel first.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 07:15:55 PM
I don't know why you have such a hard-on for MLF...he has zero credibility other than being another HC's kid brother. He was the passing game coordinator in SF for christ sakes, he's so in over his head it's not even funny.If you want to say LaFleur has done a crappy job developing Wilson, I can buy that argument. But when you blame LaFleur constantly for Zach missing throws, it's hard to take you seriously. The fact that your first reaction to Zach's first pick was to blame LaFleur for Zach missing a wide open receiver on 3rd and short proves my point.
Having a former quality control coach (Calabrese) as the QB coach hasn't helped either. But you need to get off MLF's dick, he hasn't been good. And before you recite some bullshit about last season, we were 4-13. So you can stop right there.
Now we know why Shanahan allowed Lafleur to go to NY and told Saleh "hands off" when he asked for McDaniel first.
We're 18th in scoring offense, 21st in yards per play, and 18th in yards per game. This is despite some of the worst QB play in the NFL. The fact we've been a slightly below average offense this season despite bottom-5 QB play and a revolving door at offensive tackle tells me that LaFleur has done a decent job.
The offense was better last year with White and Flacco than it was with Zach Wilson. The offense wasn't much different this year with Flacco than Zach Wilson. Flacco is a known crappy quantity. Maybe Zach is also crappy.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 07:20:01 PM
If Zach quietly bitches to Saleh or JD about MLF...yeah, he's gone.Flacco/White last 2 seasons (9 games, 7 starts): 13 Pass TD, 11 Int
Wilson last 2 seasons (18 games): 12 Pass TD, 16 Int.
What leg does Zach have to stand on? He has 12 Pass TD in 18 career games. That's beyond pathetic.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:21:24 PM
If you want to say LaFleur has done a crappy job developing Wilson, I can buy that argument. But when you blame LaFleur constantly for Zach missing throws, it's hard to take you seriously. The fact that your first reaction to Zach's first pick was to blame LaFleur for Zach missing a wide open receiver on 3rd and short proves my point.
We're 18th in scoring offense, 21st in yards per play, and 18th in yards per game. This is despite some of the worst QB play in the NFL. The fact we've been a slightly below average offense this season despite bottom-5 QB play and a revolving door at offensive tackle tells me that LaFleur has done a decent job.
I've never blamed MLF once for Zach missing throws.....But i do blame him for the excrement playcalling. The scripted plays are some of the worst i've ever seen, even Gase had more success with scripted plays.
I told you, Zach's play is concerning. But it's not all on him.
Zach's play is a reflection of Lafleur's coaching, Mack. It's his job to develop him and tailor his playcalling to his strengths. Lafleur is doing the opposite. He keeps trying to jam Zach into his playcalls like a square peg into a round hole. Why can't MLF scheme any receivers open?
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:22:29 PM
Flacco/White last 2 seasons (9 games, 7 starts): 13 Pass TD, 11 Int
Wilson last 2 seasons (18 games): 12 Pass TD, 16 Int.
What leg does Zach have to stand on? He has 12 Pass TD in 18 career games. That's beyond pathetic.
I just told you...he's the golden child until he isn't. Sorry you don't agree, but that's where this franchise is at. IF you don't like it, go talk to JD.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:24:06 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 07:25:41 PM
You can cherrypick stats until your bowlcut disintegrates. The bottom line is this is Zach's team until further notice.Pass touchdowns and interceptions are now cherry picked stats. Lol.
I know you have nothing of substance to say until Heismanberg posts, so keep attacking me until he arrives, so you can just repeat whatever he says.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:27:20 PM
Pass touchdowns and interceptions are now cherry picked stats. Lol.
I know you have nothing of substance to say until Heismanberg posts, so keep attacking me until he arrives, so you can just repeat whatever he says.
I know you hate being wrong, Mack...that's fine. You don't have to like it...but it is what it is.
Keep referring to Heis, or sucking your thumb, or whatever....i don't give a excrement.
Just know you look sound like an imbecile defending a glorified coffee bringer of an OC.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2022, 07:27:53 PM
If Zach quietly bitches to Saleh or JD about MLF...yeah, he's gone.
Why would that be the case?
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:28:56 PM
Why would that be the case?
You must've missed his post-game presser. It doesn't sound like Zach is enthused with the playcalling.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 07:29:56 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2022, 07:30:51 PM
You must've missed his post-game presser. It doesn't sound like Zach is enthused with the playcalling.
OK. What about a second year QB who has 2 TDs and 5 INTs on the year makes you think he has that kind of pull?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 07:30:53 PM
Wilson does a lot of dumb derriere stuff but he also gets out of a lot of bad situations too.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:31:04 PM
https://twitter.com/RobbySabo/status/1586803231082123264
Robby Sabo is a bigger idiot than you
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:31:45 PM
I can’t even imagine how many sacks Flacco and White would take behind this Swiss cheese offensive line.
Wilson does a lot of dumb derriere stuff but he also gets out of a lot of bad situations too.
yeah but....stats durrr
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 07:32:44 PM
https://twitter.com/RobbySabo/status/1586803231082123264
That guy SUCKS
All of those Jet-X losers watch All-22 but have no idea what they are actually watching.
“Look at this wide open receiver on the right side of the field. Wilson rolled left and didn’t throw it all the way across the field to him. Put in Mike White!”
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2022, 07:33:58 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:34:03 PM
OK. What about a second year QB who has 2 TDs and 5 INTs on the year makes you think he has that kind of pull?
Because he was taken 2nd overall, and the entire regime is tied to him? i'm surprised you need me to explain this to you.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 07:34:42 PM
You must've missed his post-game presser. It doesn't sound like Zach is enthused with the playcalling.I didn't get that vibe at all. He sounds like a guy who is frustrated because he knew he cost his team the game with his bad plays. I liked how he seemed to take accountability (even if it should be obvious).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnKo6x1N0ys
What answer gave you that vibe?
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2022, 07:36:17 PM
Because he was taken 2nd overall, and the entire regime is tied to him? i'm surprised you need me to explain this to you.
I'm surprised you think the word and frustrations of a bad QB is enough to get anyone fired.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 07:36:28 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:38:24 PM
I didn't get that vibe at all. He sounds like a guy who is frustrated because he knew he cost his team the game with his bad plays. I liked how he seemed to take accountability (even if it should be obvious).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnKo6x1N0ys
What answer gave you that vibe?
"It gets a little frustrating everytime i roll out of the pocket and nothing is there...for like the last 4 weeks. Getting tired of throwing the ball away"
you don't think that's a passive aggressive jab disguised as taking accountability?
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2022, 07:38:48 PM
I've never blamed MLF once for Zach missing throws.....But i do blame him for the excrement playcalling. The scripted plays are some of the worst i've ever seen, even Gase had more success with scripted plays.
Scripted plays aren't just about putting together a drive. They're designed to give the defense a few different looks so you can see what they're going to give you and what they're going to focus on.
I'm less bothered by the scripted plays not working and more by the fact that we're not always learning very much from them. Belichick adapted in play to what he was seeing on the field; he stopped Jones from trying to stand in the pocket and go through progressions because it kept getting him sacked, and instead made him have a couple of quick looks or take off. We show no signs of adapting to what the defense is doing, and our QB doesn't seem to have any ability to understand what he's seeing and what's actually available to him.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:39:19 PM
I'm surprised you think the word and frustrations of a bad QB is enough to get anyone fired.
that's how it starts. I didn't say he was getting fired before the sun goes down.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:39:56 PM
Scripted plays aren't just about putting together a drive. They're designed to give the defense a few different looks so you can see what they're going to give you and what they're going to focus on.
I'm less bothered by the scripted plays not working and more by the fact that we're not always learning very much from them. Belichick adapted in play to what he was seeing on the field; he stopped Jones from trying to stand in the pocket and go through progressions because it kept getting him sacked, and instead made him have a couple of quick looks or take off. We show no signs of adapting to what the defense is doing, and our QB doesn't seem to have any ability to understand what he's seeing and what's actually available to him.
It's failed every week. This is week 8. Maybe try something different?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 07:40:03 PM
They were both disastrous today
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2022, 07:41:17 PM
It's failed every week. This is week 8. Maybe try something different?
I mean, it hasn't. We're 5-3. Unfortunately plan A is no longer available and our QB is incapable of executing any other plan. Hard to know if the other plan is any good when the impatient child gets upset and goes off script on every other play.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 07:41:24 PM
Scripted plays aren't just about putting together a drive. They're designed to give the defense a few different looks so you can see what they're going to give you and what they're going to focus on.I think LaFleur had done a good job adusting as the game had gone on before this week. We were the highest-scoring offense in the 4th quarter entering this week. We were showing things early in the game, and then working off of that later in the game to create big plays.
I'm less bothered by the scripted plays not working and more by the fact that we're not always learning very much from them. Belichick adapted in play to what he was seeing on the field; he stopped Jones from trying to stand in the pocket and go through progressions because it kept getting him sacked, and instead made him have a couple of quick looks or take off. We show no signs of adapting to what the defense is doing, and our QB doesn't seem to have any ability to understand what he's seeing and what's actually available to him.
This week, he and the staff got outcoached, and the QB was a disaster.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:41:57 PM
I mean, it hasn't. We're 5-3. Unfortunately plan A is no longer available and our QB is incapable of executing any other plan. Hard to know if the other plan is any good when the impatient child gets upset and goes off script on every other play.
Yes it has. We're 5-3 because we're one of the best teams in the 4th quarter.
these scripted plays are important because they're supposed to help our offense get into a rhythm. It's been failing and a big reason why our offense doesn't come alive until the 2nd half (except for today).
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2022, 07:44:03 PM
Yes it has. We're 5-3 because we're one of the best teams in the 4th quarter.
We've been leading going into the fourth in each of the last three games. It's a very different game when you're controlling it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2022, 07:44:25 PM
Yes it has. We're 5-3 because we're one of the best teams in the 4th quarter.
Computer, what is cognitive dissonance?
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2022, 07:45:47 PM
Yes it has. We're 5-3 because we're one of the best teams in the 4th quarter.
these scripted plays are important because they're supposed to help our offense get into a rhythm. It's been failing and a big reason why our offense doesn't come alive until the 2nd half (except for today).
Adam Gase's scripted plays were elite and that was one of the worst offenses any of us have ever had to suffer through.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:47:00 PM
Computer, what is cognitive dissonance?
I'll bite...what isn't lining up for you?
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:48:55 PM
Adam Gase's scripted plays were elite and that was one of the worst offenses any of us have ever had to suffer through.
what the freak does his offense have to do with this?
My point is that scripted plays help the quarterback, and the offense, get into a rhythm....it's been a disaster for us so far, which is why the first half in games hasn't been great for us.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 07:50:33 PM
Meh. I think that's just overall frustration. Maybe it's playcalling. Maybe it's offensive line. Maybe it's his receivers not getting open. Maybe it's himself. Probably some combination. I think it's mostly himself. How can you blame the playcalling when the play is made for you to throw from the pocket, and you've broken the pocket for whatever reason?
"It gets a little frustrating everytime i roll out of the pocket and nothing is there...for like the last 4 weeks. Getting tired of throwing the ball away"
you don't think that's a passive aggressive jab disguised as taking accountability?
It's just interesting that he feels that way because his numbers under pressure are literally the worst in the NFL. He extends plays, but how often does it lead to anything positive? Almost never. Sometimes, it avoids the negative, but if he doesn't just throw it out of bounds, he usually ends up throwing a pass that can easily be intercepted. And sometimes "extending plays" is really just him not being able to hang in the pocket and throw it. On his last interception today, Garrett Wilson is open in the middle of the field, and he has enough of a pocket to throw it (and it looks like he's looking at him). Instead, he rolls out and throws an Int.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 07:51:21 PM
We are horrendous in the red zone. The first TD to Conklin was just an elite needle thread of a throw.
The big play to Garrett is a broken play. Wilson bought time and made that throw. That play didn't work because of play design.
The big play to Mims is an outstanding route/throw on a post sit zone beater. Mims and Wilson both made something out of nothing.
Finally getting pop passes into the offense to inflate passing stats is fine but it only worked once and that's basically all Garrett on that play. It's not a special play call.
Our outside run game is abysmal yet we continue to run outside zone instead of just getting under center and slowing the game down. He calls plays like a guy that doesn't know the run game because he absolutely doesn't. Shanahan and McDaniels did that in SF. LaFleur is not it.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 07:54:05 PM
Meh. I think that's just overall frustration. Maybe it's playcalling. Maybe it's offensive line. Maybe it's his receivers not getting open. Maybe it's himself. Probably some combination. I think it's mostly himself. How can you blame the playcalling when the play is made for you to throw from the pocket, and you've broken the pocket for whatever reason?
It's just interesting that he feels that way because his numbers under pressure are literally the worst in the NFL. He extends plays, but how often does it lead to anything positive? Almost never. Sometimes, it avoids the negative, but if he doesn't just throw it out of bounds, he usually ends up throwing a pass that can easily be intercepted. And sometimes "extending plays" is really just him not being able to hang in the pocket and throw it. On his last interception today, Garrett Wilson is open in the middle of the field, and he has enough of a pocket to throw it (and it looks like he's looking at him). Instead, he rolls out and throws an Int.
why does it feel he has to extend every play? Sure you can blame the oline at times, but we both know it's not always the case. Could it be the plays MLF is calling arent materializing fast enough?
we're gonna talk in circles forever on this. I think MLF should be replaced, you don't. Let's leave it at that.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 30, 2022, 07:56:17 PM
mufuggas gotta work it out
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 07:57:13 PM
lafleur is very imperfect but it was kind of funny seeing how aggravated he was with zach at the end of the game lmaoo
mufuggas gotta work it out
"why did you throw it away?!" was very telling
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 07:58:28 PM
why does it feel he has to extend every play? Sure you can blame the oline at times, but we both know it's not always the case. Could it be the plays MLF is calling arent materializing fast enough?Because he has zero feel in the pocket.
we're gonna talk in circles forever on this. I think MLF should be replaced, you don't. Let's leave it at that.
https://youtu.be/pvqWaF8SfJE?t=26
Look at his last interception today. Jeff Smith wide open over the middle of the field. It looks like that's who the play is designed for. The pocket isn't great, but it's plenty good enough for him to make the throw. Instead, he bails and makes a bad pick.
We talk about making things easy for Zach. This is easy. But he doesn't do it.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 08:00:58 PM
He's open sure, but where are the QB's eyes? He's looking 1 to 2. He doesn't have time to get to Smith.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 08:02:13 PM
We talk about making things easy for Zach. This is easy. But he doesn't do it.
I can guarantee you that Jeff fuckin' Smith on a drag is not his first or second read there.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 08:03:34 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 08:06:39 PM
A shallow drag on third and seven is absolutely not the read. Zero chance.Can't know for sure until we see the All-22, but it looks like he's looking in the middle of the field.
He's open sure, but where are the QB's eyes? He's looking 1 to 2. He doesn't have time to get to Smith.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 30, 2022, 08:07:43 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 08:09:12 PM
random bad gameday thoughts --> what's with zach's aversion to just tucking it in and running it when nothing is there and he has a lane? is it just an extreme counter-reaction to his decision to run it and hurt himself during preseason?He reminds me of Geno Smith in that way... We always wanted Geno to run more because he was athletic, but he refused to because he wanted to make plays down the field, which he rarely actually made.
(cue angry replies)
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 08:11:29 PM
Can't know for sure until we see the All-22
No one that watches All-22 is going to know the read progression. It's why Jet-X is horseshit. It's why PFF is an even bigger pile of horseshit.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2022, 08:12:07 PM
random bad gameday thoughts --> what's with zach's aversion to just tucking it in and running it when nothing is there and he has a lane? is it just an extreme counter-reaction to his decision to run it and hurt himself during preseason?
THANK. YOU.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 08:13:36 PM
random bad gameday thoughts --> what's with zach's aversion to just tucking it in and running it when nothing is there and he has a lane? is it just an extreme counter-reaction to his decision to run it and hurt himself during preseason?
he is playing scared
you see it in his footwork and his inability to just take off with it
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 08:14:18 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 08:37:28 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 08:38:24 PM
Also, if Mike LaFleur designed a play on third and seven to go to Jeff Smith, fire him right now.
the fact that Jeff Smith and Ty Johnson still see the field should be enough evidence to fire MLF too.
Post by: Jumbo on October 30, 2022, 09:11:34 PM
the fact that Jeff Smith and Ty Johnson still see the field should be enough evidence to fire MLF too.
Why does Joe Douglas still keep them on the roster??? Get rid of him too
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 09:21:37 PM
Why does Joe Douglas still keep them on the roster??? Get rid of him tooNah..JD is pretty good.
Blame someone else. Thanks, pig.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 09:30:45 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 30, 2022, 09:33:42 PM
the fact that Jeff Smith and Ty Johnson still see the field should be enough evidence to fire MLF too.
I don’t know what the beef with Elijah Moore is, but there is no world in which Jeff freaking Smith should be seeing reps and targets over Moore. Absolutely none.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 09:36:21 PM
I don’t know what the beef with Elijah Moore is, but there is no world in which Jeff freaking Smith should be seeing reps and targets over Moore. Absolutely none.Agreed
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 10:00:16 PM
I was surprised Berrios didn't get more touches. That was my biggest personnel surprise.
Post by: Jumbo on October 30, 2022, 10:04:50 PM
I don’t know what the beef with Elijah Moore is, but there is no world in which Jeff freaking Smith should be seeing reps and targets over Moore. Absolutely none.
If Moore is out there giving zero effort and sulking then there shouldn't be much issue with his benching.
I guess people really need a scapegoat for a young QB who sucks if people want MLF fired at this juncture in the season.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 10:40:32 PM
Both Moore and Mims have had issues with LaFleur.
Post by: Jumbo on October 30, 2022, 11:04:18 PM
Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
Both Moore and Mims have had issues with LaFleur.
It all starts with the QB. Moore didn't have issues with LaFleur when he broke out last year (Flacco games), when he was injured, or at the start of this year (Flacco games). It started when Wilson came in and we stopped having the ability to throw the ball with any sort of consistency.
Mims, lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 11:29:42 PM
It all starts with the QB. Moore didn't have issues with LaFleur when he broke out last year (Flacco games), when he was injured, or at the start of this year (Flacco games). It started when Wilson came in and we stopped having the ability to throw the ball with any sort of consistency.Mims was inactive for 6 weeks, and it was obvious he didn't have a spot here barring an injury or something. Moore and Mims have totally different situations.
Mims, lol
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 12:09:43 AM
It all starts with the QB.
He was pouting during the Cleveland game.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 12:10:26 AM
Mims was inactive for 6 weeks
Who had issues with Mims last year?
Mike LaFleur
We all thought it was because he couldn't learn the offense after missing time. There's obviously more to it.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 31, 2022, 12:15:45 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 31, 2022, 04:52:30 AM
why are we throwing a quarterback away after 17 games?id say a few reasons…
1. We are so damn desperate for success and with many young QBs lighting the world on fire recently we assume that since Zach isn’t doing so, and is making idiotic plays still, Zach will never be “the guy”
2. Zach now has 16 career interceptions in 18 games. 7 of them have come in 3 games vs the Pats. Our arch-nemesis. A division opponent who is never going away. Legitimately, 2 of his worst games and a game he got knocked out of early on came against the hated Pats. If he can’t play even just “bad” against New England, we will never beat those fuckers.
3. It’s becoming a habit to see him with bad mechanics and fading away from short throws, it’s becoming a habit that he’s missing high. It’s becoming a habit that his escapability leads to nothing and no positives.
4. Jets fans jus want to see competent QB play. We haven’t had that, outside of the first 8 games of Favre, since Pennington in 06. If we just had average QB play we could actually do something.
5. Prisoner of the moment syndrome. But also looking ahead, he just got abused by Belicheck. He has the Bills next, who could easily eat him alive. Follow that up with a bye to likely stew over 2 straight losses and 4 straight iffy performances at best from Zach, only to have to play the god damn Pats in their own house. Where Zach has a lot of demons to exercise at the very least.
Post by: Badger on October 31, 2022, 06:44:20 AM
why are we throwing a quarterback away after 17 games?Damn entitled millennials who think franchise QBs are just handed out for free.
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2022, 07:29:26 AM
why are we throwing a quarterback away after 17 games?
I'm not. I want to see how Zach does with an OC that wasn't doing coffee runs to Starbucks before coming to NY.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 31, 2022, 07:48:48 AM
Future Barista: Mike LaFleur
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2022, 10:18:52 AM
let's ride.
#FireMLF
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2022, 11:06:04 AM
Quote
Mina Kimes
@minakimes
·
13m
Replying to
@MoveTheSticks
Something that jumped out to me gathering stats ahead of this season was how much better he was running quick game vs throws over 2.5 seconds. Same has been true this year--he's actually 12th in QBR when the ball's out quick, vs 30th on longer developing throws.
Kimes in a thread with Daniel Jeremiah. This is what i'm talking about in regards to MLF's playcalling. Tailor it to Zach...get some quick slants, out routes, utilize the quick release. Stop with the plays that take longer to materialize. It's not working.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 11:14:15 AM
Kimes in a thread with Daniel Jeremiah. This is what i'm talking about in regards to MLF's playcalling. Tailor it to Zach...get some quick slants, out routes, utilize the quick release. Stop with the plays that take longer to materialize. It's not working.Zach has by far the longest average time before throw in the NFL, both this year and over the last 2 years. Flacco and Mike White both got the ball out slightly faster than the league average in the same offense.
It's clear when you watch Zach that if the ball comes out quickly, he looks good. But if it's not out fast, it's a disaster. Maybe it's slower developing plays, maybe it's him not being able to go past his first read.
If you want to be optimistic on Zach, at least there are situations where he looks legitimately good. But if he only looks good when the pocket is clean and his first read is there, then I think a lot of QBs can do that.
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2022, 11:18:32 AM
Zach has by far the longest average time before throw in the NFL, both this year and over the last 2 years. Flacco and Mike White both got the ball out slightly faster than the league average in the same offense.
It's clear when you watch Zach that if the ball comes out quickly, he looks good. But if it's not out fast, it's a disaster. Maybe it's slower developing plays, maybe it's him not being able to go past his first read.
If you want to be optimistic on Zach, at least there are situations where he looks legitimately good. But if he only looks good when the pocket is clean and his first read is there, then I think a lot of QBs can do that.
i think this has been said plenty, but i guess i'll regurgitate one more time. MLF needs to simplify the game plan, and start Zach off with calls he's comfortable with. Build the confidence, before it's gone. Then start calling these longer plays as he gets more comfortable. This clearly isn't happening, and it's because MLF is inexperienced in his role.
Also, everyone should be optimistic on Zach...he's our QB. I don't want another dumbshit OC to ruin another blue chip prospect.
Flacco and Mike White both suck.
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2022, 11:36:16 AM
Jones has only fumbled 3x in 8 weeks...he used to fumble like 3x a game last year. Oh, and he's improved without any significant veteran WRs.
that's called "doing a good job". What MLF is doing is NOT that.
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2022, 11:49:00 AM
Kimes in a thread with Daniel Jeremiah. This is what i'm talking about in regards to MLF's playcalling. Tailor it to Zach...get some quick slants, out routes, utilize the quick release. Stop with the plays that take longer to materialize. It's not working.
I don't disagree, but at least part of that is the result of Zach bailing too quickly at the first sign of pressure. There are definitely occasions when he has another second or two in the pocket to let the play develop, but he wants to go run around. The first TD yesterday was a perfect example of what he can do if he stays in there and trusts his linemen to buy him another second.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 11:59:17 AM
How can you make sense of the 42 pass attempts?
Post by: MexJetinBcn on October 31, 2022, 12:07:41 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on October 31, 2022, 12:09:56 PM
id say a few reasons…
1. We are so damn desperate for success and with many young QBs lighting the world on fire recently we assume that since Zach isn’t doing so, and is making idiotic plays still, Zach will never be “the guy”
2. Zach now has 16 career interceptions in 18 games. 7 of them have come in 3 games vs the Pats. Our arch-nemesis. A division opponent who is never going away. Legitimately, 2 of his worst games and a game he got knocked out of early on came against the hated Pats. If he can’t play even just “bad” against New England, we will never beat those fuckers.
3. It’s becoming a habit to see him with bad mechanics and fading away from short throws, it’s becoming a habit that he’s missing high. It’s becoming a habit that his escapability leads to nothing and no positives.
4. Jets fans jus want to see competent QB play. We haven’t had that, outside of the first 8 games of Favre, since Pennington in 06. If we just had average QB play we could actually do something.
5. Prisoner of the moment syndrome. But also looking ahead, he just got abused by Belicheck. He has the Bills next, who could easily eat him alive. Follow that up with a bye to likely stew over 2 straight losses and 4 straight iffy performances at best from Zach, only to have to play the god damn Pats in their own house. Where Zach has a lot of demons to exercise at the very least.
There's a lot that I agree with and a lot of truth to this, but we can't just be discarding 24 year olds who've played one-season plus. We knew the growing pains would be there. My concern is the lack of mitigating the negative from MLF and the offensive staff.
To anyone defending Mike LaFleur after yesterday:
How can you make sense of the 42 pass attempts?
Two things from a coaching staff perspective that make yesterday (and really every loss they've had) indefensible;
1. The pass to run ratio is a freaking disgrace, and with the exception of the Bengals game because they did fall behind in a significant amount-THERES NO REASON FOR IT.
2. This team routinely gets its derriere totally handed to it in the third quarter, and the stark differential between that quarter and the others tells me they're continually getting out-coached and out-adjusted at the half.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 12:14:53 PM
We should have mixed it more, of course, but I don't think we were that good running the ball and the stats are a bit misleading. And we were actually not so bad in the air, but Zach kept on making idiotic mistakes. Still, I agree, should have definitely mixed it more, it looks like MLF can't really handle adversity.Yes. Because we averaged over twice as many yards per play on passes than rushes. And because our top RB tore his ACL last week.
Nobody was complaining about the game plan until the final minute of the 1st half (or at least you shouldn't have been). Zach was playing well, and we were moving the ball. The offense was effective in the 1st half.
Then he self-destructed. And even on the plays Zach self-destructed on, there were usually open receivers he just couldn't find.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 12:15:43 PM
1. The pass to run ratio is a freaking disgrace, and with the exception of the Bengals game because they did fall behind in a significant amount-THERES NO REASON FOR IT.
Every playbook should have iso, counter, and power. I don't care how one dimensional it is when Robinson is out there. LaFleur and Benton can't even install basic plays.
You just traded for him. Let him get you a couple yards for a first down.
Post by: insanity on October 31, 2022, 12:15:58 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on October 31, 2022, 12:19:46 PM
It's pretty simple. The oc was brought in to groom a rookie qb and make him better. He's not doing that. He's doing a bad job.
Mmm... I think he was brought to help us win games, and he's kinda doing that.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 12:21:16 PM
It's pretty simple. The oc was brought in to groom a rookie qb and make him better. He's not doing that. He's doing a bad job.He's not doing a good job there, but it's also possible that we drafted a shitty QB who had one good season in college against overmatched opponents in a pandemic season.
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2022, 12:24:16 PM
He's not doing a good job there, but it's also possible that we drafted a shitty QB who had one good season in college against overmatched opponents in a pandemic season.This is a legit concern...
But I need to see Zach with a real OC before that assumption can be confirmed
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2022, 12:40:10 PM
It's pretty simple. The oc was brought in to groom a rookie qb and make him better. He's not doing that. He's doing a bad job.
I don't think it's Lafleur who's working with him every day to help him read and understand game situations, and understand what to do in them. Greg Knapp's death was horrible timing but Calabrese has exactly zero history doing a job like this, and yet Zach's daily coaching and development is entrusted to him.
If Zach was making better decisions then the successes and failings of the scheme would be much more apparent.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 12:44:02 PM
If Zach was making better decisions
Please stop fixating just on yesterday's game.
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2022, 12:47:20 PM
Please stop fixating just on yesterday's game.
I know you don't think that yesterday was the only time Zach has done stupid things and made stupid decisions.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 12:48:52 PM
I know you don't think that yesterday was the only time Zach has done stupid things and made stupid decisions.
It's definitely not, but he's taken pretty good care of the football until yesterday.
We have to expect some mistakes from him. We should also expect him to throw the football away when nothing's there.
There's clearly something going on with him where he's afraid to run the football. Probably the preseason injury.
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2022, 12:51:09 PM
It's definitely not, but he's taken pretty good care of the football until yesterday.
We have to expect some mistakes from him. We should also expect him to throw the football away when nothing's there.
There's clearly something going on with him where he's afraid to run the football. Probably the preseason injury.
Yes. And I'm saying that the QB coach is the primary guy who should be fixing these things, just as Miles Austin is the guy who should be getting Elijah Moore's head straight.
I think our offensive coaching staff from top to bottom is currently coming up short.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 12:55:33 PM
I think our offensive coaching staff from top to bottom is currently coming up short.
we can be friends again
Post by: Badger on October 31, 2022, 01:32:37 PM
It's pretty simple. The oc was brought in to groom a rookie qb and make him better. He's not doing that. He's doing a bad job.Probably shouldn't have hired a pedo.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 31, 2022, 03:29:42 PM
There's a lot that I agree with and a lot of truth to this, but we can't just be discarding 24 year olds who've played one-season plus. We knew the growing pains would be there. My concern is the lack of mitigating the negative from MLF and the offensive staff.
Appreciate the response. I wasn’t trying to say everyone is giving up on Zach, and frankly nobody should be. There is no reason to even really entertain things until the season ends anyways. But if you want to know why people are overreacting and some people (see wit and wisdom of jets fans thread) want to dump him, I’d wager those are largely the reasons. If he had that excrement performance against the Seahawks, it would be a excrement performance. But no one would be nearly as pissed as they are because it happened against the god damn Patriots.
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2022, 04:05:46 PM
Appreciate the response. I wasn’t trying to say everyone is giving up on Zach, and frankly nobody should be. There is no reason to even really entertain things until the season ends anyways. But if you want to know why people are overreacting and some people (see wit and wisdom of jets fans thread) want to dump him, I’d wager those are largely the reasons. If he had that excrement performance against the Seahawks, it would be a excrement performance. But no one would be nearly as pissed as they are because it happened against the god damn Patriots.
I think it's as much because it's the same excrement performance we got from him last year. Yes, he made lots of good throws yesterday, but he rendered them irrelevant by the bad decisions - not just the picks, but the pointless scrambles and last ditch spin moves to achieve absolutely nothing. The problem is that at this stage we should see progress from Zach and I don't think we really have.
It all feels very Darnold right now.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 04:32:10 PM
I think it's as much because it's the same excrement performance we got from him last year. Yes, he made lots of good throws yesterday, but he rendered them irrelevant by the bad decisions - not just the picks, but the pointless scrambles and last ditch spin moves to achieve absolutely nothing. The problem is that at this stage we should see progress from Zach and I don't think we really have.We put a ton of pressure on the entire Jets roster and staff for that Patriots game. And quite frankly, it was deserved. Saleh wasn't here for our entire Patriots losing streak, but he did go 0-6 in the division and we were embarrassed twice by the Patriots. We need to be beating divisional opponents. It's one thing to beat Skylar Thompson and the Dolphins. It's another to beat Bill Belichick and the Patriots.
It all feels very Darnold right now.
There's also less patience because of what happened with Darnold. We were very patient with Darnold, and some wanted to be even MORE patient than we were. Wilson's play is very reminiscent of Darnold's. Some quarterbacks recover from that to turn into something. Most don't. Wilson also has a better supporting cast than Darnold ever did, even if it still could be improved.
Wilson doesn't have a single great game in his career. His 2 best games are probably the Jaguars game last year where he literally threw for 102 yards, and the Buccaneers game last year when he completed 58% of his passes for 7.1 yards per attempt. He has some very good quarters, some very good drives, and some very good halves. But he has yet to put it together for 4 quarters in his career.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 31, 2022, 04:54:43 PM
I think it's as much because it's the same excrement performance we got from him last year. Yes, he made lots of good throws yesterday, but he rendered them irrelevant by the bad decisions - not just the picks, but the pointless scrambles and last ditch spin moves to achieve absolutely nothing. The problem is that at this stage we should see progress from Zach and I don't think we really have.
It all feels very Darnold right now.
Everyone had exponentially more faith in Darnold at this point in his career. And the dude didn't even finish his rookie contract
That should speak volumes about Zach Wilson
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 04:59:57 PM
Everyone had exponentially more faith in Darnold at this point in his career. And the dude didn't even finish his rookie contractEh, I think it's also a degree of impatience and being burned by a young QB again. I think whatever QB we would have taken in 2018 would have gotten a longer leash than the 2021 edition.
That should speak volumes about Zach Wilson
Post by: dcm1602 on October 31, 2022, 05:07:44 PM
Eh, I think it's also a degree of impatience and being burned by a young QB again. I think whatever QB we would have taken in 2018 would have gotten a longer leash than the 2021 edition.
Zach Wilson is unquestionably dealing with a worser situation as far as injuries go. But his stats have been objectively worse, he's had better offensive weapons around him, he appears to have made no progress from last year to this season, and Zach Wilson's coaching/OC situation have been far far more favorable.
I'm not arguing that in defense of Darnold (anymore), the dudes probably a career backup.
I'm saying that Zach Wilson getting to the level of Sam Darnold would be a huge improvement
Post by: Johnny English on October 31, 2022, 05:11:36 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 05:21:51 PM
Zach has everything around him that he needs to succeed
People keep saying this and I'm looking at the depth chart right now asking myself what the hell they're thinking...
Our OL is in shambles. Our backfield is depleted. As far as pass catchers, we've got Garrett Wilson and Tyler Conklin. That's it.
Berrios: gadget player
Mims: stinks
Davis: injury prone and inconsistent (and we really need him back)
Smith: worst player of all-time
Moore: dickhead
We thought he had everything around him. Joe Douglas did a lot to put the pieces around him. It's fallen apart around him as the season progresses.
I hope the OL gets healthier. I hope James Robinson fills a piece of the Breece Hall void. It's all hope right now.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2022, 05:24:29 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 05:49:59 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 31, 2022, 05:51:37 PM
The situation has gotten worse and is far from ideal but it is still better than what Sam had to deal with.freak Sam Darnold
Post by: mj2sexay on October 31, 2022, 06:20:48 PM
And btw, I don't blame anyone for feeling that way. You'd have to go back to 2015 to point out a more talented Jets offense and that was with importing veterans left and right.
It can't be understated how much Breece going down hurt, and will continue to hurt.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 31, 2022, 07:06:38 PM
It absolutely speaks to how bad this franchise has been from a skill position perspective that people are acting like Zach has the Greatest Show on Turf around him.When healthy, there is plenty on this offense where a QB should have success. It isn't an elite group but it would be more than adequate.
And btw, I don't blame anyone for feeling that way. You'd have to go back to 2015 to point out a more talented Jets offense and that was with importing veterans left and right.
It can't be understated how much Breece going down hurt, and will continue to hurt.
The injuries and Moore situation throw a wrench into that. But even with all the injuries, it isn't like Jeremy Kerley or David Nelson or Jamison Crowder is WR1.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 07:19:24 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 08:13:42 AM
Everyone else seems to be getting forgotten about save for one or two targets.
Uzomah is the only worthy player that's really missing in the passing game.
Corey Davis is hurt.
Elijah Moore is in the doghouse.
Ty Johnson shouldn't be on the field.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 08:32:24 AM
Uzomah is the only worthy player that's really missing in the passing game.
Corey Davis is hurt.
Elijah Moore is in the doghouse.
Ty Johnson shouldn't be on the field.
Not sure why you're evaluating this post as if it only applied to last week.
Moore being in the doghouse was a result of him being forgotten about in the offense.
Wilson had a lull in the middle of this stretch because Davis became the focal point of the targets when they were both on the field.
Literally no one wants Ty Johnson to be targeted with anything aside from a pink slip.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 11:03:40 AM
The problem is that if we had a competent passing game we would have a lot of different WRs and TEs making catches and being options. Instead, through the faults of the OC or the QB we're really only targeting one or two players per game and it's usually our #1 HB, our #1 WR and one of the TEs. Everyone else seems to be getting forgotten about save for one or two targets.I don't really agree with any of this. We aren't throwing the ball much.
Patriots: 20-41 passing with 10 players targeted
Broncos: 16-26 passing with 9 players targeted
Packers: 10-18 passing to 7 players
Dolphins: 14-21 passing to 9 players
Steelers: 18-37 passing to 9 players
Garrett Wilson had a "lull" because we didn't throw the ball much. His target share in Zach's first 4 games was 20.2%. His target share against the Pats was 20.6%. The only difference is we threw the ball a lot more.
Outside of Moore, I don't really know how you could complain about guys not getting the ball enough, unless you want to say we should have thrown the ball more the previous few games. And since everyone bitched about the run-pass ratio against New England, I doubt you really want that.
And we were winning, so I don't really care about who gets the ball how many times. Plenty of offenses are consolidated. Both Super Bowl teams last season were very consolidated.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 11:16:42 AM
I don't really agree with any of this. We aren't throwing the ball much.
Patriots: 20-41 passing with 10 players targeted
Broncos: 16-26 passing with 9 players targeted
Packers: 10-18 passing to 7 players
Dolphins: 14-21 passing to 9 players
Steelers: 18-37 passing to 9 players
Garrett Wilson had a "lull" because we didn't throw the ball much. His target share in Zach's first 4 games was 20.2%. His target share against the Pats was 20.6%. The only difference is we threw the ball a lot more.
Outside of Moore, I don't really know how you could complain about guys not getting the ball enough, unless you want to say we should have thrown the ball more the previous few games. And since everyone bitched about the run-pass ratio against New England, I doubt you really want that.
And we were winning, so I don't really care about who gets the ball how many times. Plenty of offenses are consolidated. Both Super Bowl teams last season were very consolidated.
That’s a lot of words to agree with me saying that we don’t have a competent passing game.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 11:20:06 AM
That’s a lot of words to agree with me saying that we don’t have a competent passing game.We don't have a competent passing game because we don't have a competent QB. Maybe Wilson turns into one eventually, but the sample size keeps increasing, and his play is not improving.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 11:22:13 AM
We don't have a competent passing game because we don't have a competent QB. Maybe Wilson turns into one eventually, but the sample size keeps increasing, and his play is not improving.
Correct. What are you trying to do here?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 11:24:33 AM
Correct. What are you trying to do here?Argue against your weird point of "we're only targeting 1-2 players per game" and that passing games have to have lots of different WRs and TEs making plays.
You said Wilson had a "lull" because we were targeting Davis more. He had a lull because we just weren't throwing the ball.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 11:59:39 AM
Argue against your weird point of "we're only targeting 1-2 players per game" and that passing games have to have lots of different WRs and TEs making plays.
You said Wilson had a "lull" because we were targeting Davis more. He had a lull because we just weren't throwing the ball.
No, I said the talent level of the WRs would be more apparent if we were better at passing the ball.
Going over the targets I guess I was wrong about how much we were targeting Wilson vs. Davis. Oh well.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 03, 2022, 08:19:41 PM
Do we feel better about LaFleur of worse about Wil Parks?
Post by: reuben on November 03, 2022, 08:35:51 PM
https://twitter.com/PhillyWill11/status/1588304377692925952?t=l9vj5jUiQG1303CpEUQTnQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/PhillyWill11/status/1588304377692925952?t=l9vj5jUiQG1303CpEUQTnQ&s=19)
Do we feel better about LaFleur of worse about Wil Parks?
Parks tryna get that Ty Johnson job security
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2022, 08:54:27 PM
Parks tryna get that Ty Johnson job securityone of the most prolific and highly working posters I ever been around so engaged on and with his guys as well as the threads and I love going to post with this dude and against this dude because he gets me better
Post by: Johnny English on November 03, 2022, 08:57:27 PM
https://twitter.com/PhillyWill11/status/1588304377692925952?t=l9vj5jUiQG1303CpEUQTnQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/PhillyWill11/status/1588304377692925952?t=l9vj5jUiQG1303CpEUQTnQ&s=19)
Do we feel better about LaFleur of worse about Wil Parks?
MLF comes across as a really intelligent and articulate guy. He seems fun and engaging. I imagine Parks sees all of that, and likes and respects him.
I'm not entirely sure how Mike helps a safety get better each day, and nor am I sure that a safety is the right person to be making an assessment of Mike's skills as an offensive co-ordinator.
Post by: reuben on November 03, 2022, 08:58:57 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 20, 2022, 02:33:17 PM
Post by: IATA on November 20, 2022, 03:08:20 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 03:09:03 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 03:09:43 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 03:09:45 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2022, 03:10:10 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 03:10:37 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 03:38:09 PM
Not going to defend LaFleur for this one, but the QB is atrocious as well.But it's gonna be Lafleur's derriere gone first....as it should be
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:38:42 PM
But it's gonna be Lafleur's derriere gone first....as it should be
DO THE SAME THING AS THE LAST THREE!!!!
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 03:39:38 PM
DO THE SAME THING AS THE LAST THREE!!!!LOUD NOISES!!!
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 03:51:42 PM
it has to be one of the worst
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 03:57:40 PM
Since Breece Hall went down, where does our run game rank?
it has to be one of the worst
Yes. I have no idea what the plan is with our RB usage. It makes absolutely zero sense.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 03:58:57 PM
Yes. I have no idea what the plan is with our RB usage. It makes absolutely zero sense.Probably realized we traded for a RB who tore his Achilles 10 month ago and has no explosion.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 04:00:30 PM
Probably realized we traded for a RB who tore his Achilles 10 month ago and has no explosion.
He's still the most talented back on the roster in terms of pass-pro but there's Ty Johnson out there on 3rd down every time.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 04:01:43 PM
Probably realized we traded for a RB who tore his Achilles 10 month ago and has no explosion.
probably shouldn't give him the ball on tosses and outside zones then
he had some solid inside runs against Buffalo
I just don't get it. I get why you guys blame the QB but I go harder after the OC because everything is broken. The personnel groupings make no sense. We try to use all of our receivers and backs the same way. He showed some creativity last season. It's not there this season aside from the Berrios to Wilson TD pass.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 04:05:20 PM
Since Breece Hall went down, where does our run game rank?
it has to be one of the worst
Losing AVT at the same time is a big part of that as well, and Herbig's absence was notable today.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 20, 2022, 04:06:54 PM
The personnel groupings make no sense. We try to use all of our receivers and backs the same way.
Exactly. Why the hell is Mims getting smoke screens called or swing passes behind the LOS? Also, Ty Johnson isn't Breece Hall.
What I don't understand is the constant lining up in shotgun when the QB is struggling or unwillingness to run the ball. Also, if the NE is going to commit a guy to spy Wilson, why doesn't LaFleur recognize this and exploit it; it's like the defense is playing one short.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 04:08:08 PM
Exactly. Why the hell is Mims getting smoke screens called or swing passes behind the LOS? Also, Ty Johnson isn't Breece Hall.
Someone joked that MLF is trying to stick it to Moore with the Mims usage but I think that actually holds some water
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:11:17 PM
probably shouldn't give him the ball on tosses and outside zones thenToday was the worst game MLF has had IMO. He was terrible. Playcalls were bad. Nothing was simple. Personnel usage was weird. He got owned by Belichick.
he had some solid inside runs against Buffalo
I just don't get it. I get why you guys blame the QB but I go harder after the OC because everything is broken. The personnel groupings make no sense. We try to use all of our receivers and backs the same way. He showed some creativity last season. It's not there this season aside from the Berrios to Wilson TD pass.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 04:13:20 PM
probably shouldn't give him the ball on tosses and outside zones thenI was screaming at my TV when they called tbe toss
he had some solid inside runs against Buffalo
I just don't get it. I get why you guys blame the QB but I go harder after the OC because everything is broken. The personnel groupings make no sense. We try to use all of our receivers and backs the same way. He showed some creativity last season. It's not there this season aside from the Berrios to Wilson TD pass.
Vs Buffalo he shortened tbe drop backs sped up route design. Did stuff like slants and quick rhythm passing. excrement I've wanted all yr then he comes out and tries to pickup where they left off with the same vs pats gameplan airing it out
The run to pass ratio was only fixed because we couldn't convert a set of downs to save our life
Either way . Lafleur is bad
Also Tomlinson is trash and Herbig was sorely missed
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
I was screaming at my TV when they called tbe toss
Vs Buffalo he shortened tbe drop backs sped up route design. Did stuff like slants and quick rhythm passing. excrement I've wanted all yr then he comes out and tries to pickup where they left off with the same vs pats gameplan airing it out
The run to pass ratio was only fixed because we couldn't convert a set of downs to save our life
Either way . Lafleur is bad
Also Tomlinson is trash and Herbig was sorely missed
One way or another this OLine is going to look markedly different between Week 1 this season and Week 1 next season.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:37:27 PM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
Patriots edge Matthew Judon on Zach Wilson: "I think whenever you have pressure on a guy like that he looks at the rush and instead of having his eyes up they’re more down."
Said the #Jets didn't have many route combinations down the field.
this is on the coaching btw.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:46:57 PM
You can blame the coaching if you want, but Judon lays it out right there for you.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:48:12 PM
Matthew Judon coming out and saying what we all know - Wilson sucks and can't deal with pressure.
You can blame the coaching if you want, but Judon lays it out right there for you.
He just pointed out something that's absolutely coachable. What is MLF getting a paycheck for? Because it surely isn't his playcalling.
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 04:49:48 PM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
Patriots edge Matthew Judon on Zach Wilson: "I think whenever you have pressure on a guy like that he looks at the rush and instead of having his eyes up they’re more down."
this is on the coaching btw.
How is that your takeaway?
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 04:50:27 PM
He just pointed out something that's absolutely coachable.
A quarterback who shits his pants whenever the defense blitzes is not coachable.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:51:16 PM
How is that your takeaway?
because it's accurate.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 20, 2022, 04:51:51 PM
this is on the coaching btw.
The quote looks way more damning towards Zach than the latter sentence for LaFleur.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 04:53:50 PM
A quarterback who shits his pants whenever the defense blitzes is not coachable.This is why it's hard to take some of the MLF hate seriously.
There are legitimate reasons to blame MLF, especially today. But people literally blame him for everything.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:55:21 PM
A quarterback who shits his pants whenever the defense blitzes is not coachable.
Teaching the QB how to handle the blitz with quick throws and better playcalling says otherwise. It's absolutely coachable. Too bad MLF ain't it.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:56:32 PM
This is why it's hard to take some of the MLF hate seriously.
There are legitimate reasons to blame MLF, especially today. But people literally blame him for everything.
He is to blame...you're only realizing it today because you're a late bloomer. But MLF has been a POS most of the season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 04:56:42 PM
How is that your takeaway?
Because LaFleur is apparently teaching Wilson to play shook.
Wilson plays like Sanchez.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 04:57:58 PM
Because LaFleur is apparently teaching Wilson to play shook.
He's not teaching him anything. That clown was a passing game coordinator in SF. He's an OC because his equally fraudulent brother was in Saleh's wedding party.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 05:00:19 PM
Wilson is not succeeding because a second year quarterback in the NFL who was drafted second overall should not be needing Baby's First Book Of Offensive Plays in order to win games when the defense gets you the ball as many times as they did today.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 05:01:34 PM
Because LaFleur is apparently teaching Wilson to play shook.
Wilson plays like Sanchez.
My biggest takeaway after this game and after listening to Garrett Wilson post game is that it’s not working and certain players aren’t preparing.
I think he was specifically calling out Mims and Moore, not Zach.
Not sure MLF is teaching anyone anything. He’s just calling plays and expecting guys to go out and execute while playing out of position.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2022, 05:03:51 PM
My biggest takeaway after this game and after listening to Garrett Wilson post game is that it’s not working and certain players aren’t preparing.
I think he was specifically calling out Mims and Moore, not Zach.
Not sure MLF is teaching anyone anything. He’s just calling plays and expecting guys to go out and execute while playing out of position.
this is my biggest problem with MLF.
And MLF hasn't deviated from it. "Maybe it'll work next week. rinse repeat".
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 05:04:07 PM
My biggest takeaway after this game and after listening to Garrett Wilson post game is that it’s not working and certain players aren’t preparing.Maybe that's why Jeff Smith plays more than most of us would like.
I think he was specifically calling out Mims and Moore, not Zach.
Not sure MLF is teaching anyone anything. He’s just calling plays and expecting guys to go out and execute while playing out of position.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2022, 05:05:32 PM
My biggest takeaway after this game and after listening to Garrett Wilson post game is that it’s not working and certain players aren’t preparing.This
I think he was specifically calling out Mims and Moore, not Zach.
Not sure MLF is teaching anyone anything. He’s just calling plays and expecting guys to go out and execute while playing out of position.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 05:07:05 PM
My biggest takeaway after this game and after listening to Garrett Wilson post game is that it’s not working and certain players aren’t preparing.
I think he was specifically calling out Mims and Moore, not Zach.
Not sure MLF is teaching anyone anything. He’s just calling plays and expecting guys to go out and execute while playing out of position.
This is also on position coaches. They're the ones working directly with their groups, if there are players who are not training and studying to the standard that they should be then it's on the position coaches to get a hold of them.
It really feels like the massive lack of experience in the offensive coaching staff is hurting us. The dramas with Mims and Moore are a direct reflection of the coaching of Miles Austin, and likewise Wilson's problems are on Calabrese.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 05:09:44 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 05:12:17 PM
It’s not Miles Austin’s fault that multiple players have had issues with Mike LaFleur
It's his fault if players he's responsible for who have no experience in the league are publicly throwing their toys out of their strollers because they're not getting what they want.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 05:15:28 PM
There's no fixing shook.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 05:27:12 PM
Yeah let's just speculate on what every coach is doing or not doing.
There's no fixing shook.
I don't think that "Miles Austin isn't preventing Denzel Mims and Elijah Moore from acting like brats" is speculation.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 05:29:08 PM
I don't think that "Miles Austin isn't preventing Denzel Mims and Elijah Moore from acting like brats" is speculation.I don't think Mims is acting like a brat publicly. He asked for a trade because he was going to be buried on the depth chart all season unless there was an injury, something he was right about. I don't blame Mims for asking for a trade.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 05:55:45 PM
I don't think Mims is acting like a brat publicly. He asked for a trade because he was going to be buried on the depth chart all season unless there was an injury, something he was right about. I don't blame Mims for asking for a trade.
I blame Mims for lining up in the wrong place and running the wrong routes almost every game
both him and Moore just seem like mental midgets
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 05:56:36 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 05:56:57 PM
I blame Mims for lining up in the wrong place and running the wrong routes almost every gameSeems like you want more Jeff Smith.
both him and Moore just seem like mental midgets
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 05:59:11 PM
Seems like you want more Jeff Smith.
I do not but if we can't trust our wideouts and we're going to spend $40M and a premium draft choice on Tight Ends then we should probably throw them the football a bit more...
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2022, 06:01:06 PM
Seems like you want more Jeff Smith.
Jeff Smith has an almost identical catch:target ratio and y/r as Elijah Moore. In four years he has never fumbled the ball.
For a guy who is a bit of a punchline on here he hasn't done much less than Moore and he's been far less of a dickhead while doing it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 06:01:29 PM
Seems like you want more Jeff Smith.
Pretty sure he has more catches than Moore so far.
Post by: reuben on November 20, 2022, 06:04:39 PM
I blame Mims for lining up in the wrong place and running the wrong routes almost every game
both him and Moore just seem like mental midgets
And the drops. Whatever bandwagon I was on for Mims for a couple good blocks last week, I have now jumped off that excrement and chopped it into kindling.
There was a play in I want to say the third preseason game of Stephen Hill's third year where whoever-the-freak nailed him on a wide open slant in the middle of the field - Hill jumped into the air for no reason, let the ball hit him right in the breadbasket, and dropped it. It was the moment you knew Stephen Hill wasn't going to make it. It was almost identical to Mims latest drop.
The dude's no good.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2022, 06:07:37 PM
And the drops. Whatever bandwagon I was on for Mims for a couple good blocks last week, I have now jumped off that excrement and chopped it into kindling.
There was a play in I want to say the third preseason game of Stephen Hill's third year where whoever-the-freak nailed him on a wide open slant in the middle of the field - Hill jumped into the air for no reason, let the ball hit him right in the breadbasket, and dropped it. It was the moment you knew Stephen Hill wasn't going to make it. It was almost identical to Mims latest drop.
The dude's no good.
for all of the veteran QB talk around here, how about another veteran wideout?
that room desperately needs leadership and it's a shame that the rookie seems like the only starter focused right now
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2022, 06:10:11 PM
for all of the veteran QB talk around here, how about another veteran wideout?
that room desperately needs leadership and it's a shame that the rookie seems like the only starter focused right now
We definitely need another WR in the room. Mims and Moore aren't the answers we're looking for.
Post by: delavan on November 20, 2022, 06:11:18 PM
This is also on position coaches. They're the ones working directly with their groups, if there are players who are not training and studying to the standard that they should be then it's on the position coaches to get a hold of them.Previously addressed repeatedly including the 'experience' factor:
It really feels like the massive lack of experience in the offensive coaching staff is hurting us. The dramas with Mims and Moore are a direct reflection of the coaching of Miles Austin, and likewise Wilson's problems are on Calabrese.
- http://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,5336.msg486756.html#msg486756
- http://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,5225.msg486754.html#msg486754
- http://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,5818.msg492054.html#msg492054
Quote from: Derek Smalls
I don't blame Mims for asking for a trade.Fair enough, but I do blame him for his occasional habit of needlessly jumping for balls instead of catching them in stride. Sign of a guy anticipating a hit?
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2022, 06:18:14 PM
A quarterback who shits his pants whenever the defense blitzes is not coachable.
This
It's like trying to make a hockey player tough that isn't.
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2022, 06:25:31 PM
Since Breece Hall went down, where does our run game rank?Probably way down there.
it has to be one of the worst
As boring as it is to harp on it every week, the fact we're missing our best rusher and best blocker doesn't stop being true.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2022, 06:28:18 PM
Probably way down there.
As boring as it is to harp on it every week, the fact we're missing our best rusher and best blocker doesn't stop being true.
It's definitely exposed our lack of a QB. We were able to scheme up good enough offense with Breece and AVT. A lot harder when your OL is beat up, your top RB is out, your #2 WR is hurt, and your QB is terrible.
There's enough talent on offense where we should still be able to move the ball with competent QB play, but it's never going to be great.
Curious how the offense looks next week against Chicago. The Bears are one of the worst defenses we've faced all season, if not the worst.
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 11:03:34 AM
@RichCimini
·
1m
Mike LaFleur: It "stinks" that Wilson had to be benched. LaFLeur falls on the sword, saying he hasn't coached him well enough. #Jets
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:05:59 AM
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
1m
Mike LaFleur: It "stinks" that Wilson had to be benched. LaFLeur falls on the sword, saying he hasn't coached him well enough. #Jets
Saleh is on his derriere now
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:06:44 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 11:07:44 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 11:18:18 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 11:19:46 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 12:22:28 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 12:30:08 PM
"it starts and ends with me"If Zach had said that Sunday night, he might still be the guy.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 12:33:30 PM
If Zach had said that Sunday night, he might still be the guy.
Probably correct.
Post by: Coach K on November 24, 2022, 07:41:25 AM
Rich CiminiZach should take note
@RichCimini
·
1m
Mike LaFleur: It "stinks" that Wilson had to be benched. LaFLeur falls on the sword, saying he hasn't coached him well enough. #Jets
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 07:49:40 AM
Zach should take note
I thought Zach was very mature yesterday in talking with the media. He owned his mistake.
Post by: Jumbo on November 24, 2022, 09:46:52 AM
I thought Zach was very mature yesterday in talking with the media. He owned his mistake.
aka he met with PR specialists who drilled exactly what to say into his head
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 09:50:19 AM
aka he met with PR specialists who drilled exactly what to say into his head
we get it, you're determined to bury this kid.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 24, 2022, 09:56:14 AM
we get it, you're determined to bury this kid.
He’s not wrong. There’s no way in hell he wasn’t coached on how to handle yesterday. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe it, but suggesting he didn’t get coaching and training before hand to settle his emotional state after being benched is asinine.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 09:58:58 AM
He’s not wrong. There’s no way in hell he wasn’t coached on how to handle yesterday. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe it, but suggesting he didn’t get coaching and training before hand to settle his emotional state after being benched is asinine.
Nobody suggested anything like that. Zach was humble, and took the brunt of the blame as he should. Whether it was coached or not, it was the correct course of action.
And Jumbo has been determined to murder Zach's career for weeks...so there's been nothing said here that was out of the ordinary.
Post by: Jumbo on November 24, 2022, 10:54:42 AM
And Jumbo has been determined to murder Zach's career for weeks...so there's been nothing said here that was out of the ordinary.
lmfao
Post by: Jumbo on November 24, 2022, 12:14:28 PM
Nobody suggested anything like that. Zach was humble, and took the brunt of the blame as he should. Whether it was coached or not, it was the correct course of action.
And Jumbo has been determined to murder Zach's career for weeks...so there's been nothing said here that was out of the ordinary.
I'm gonna take the PR-coached answer with more of a grain of salt. At least he actually went up there and did it.
I think Zach has done a lot more to murder his career personally than I have.
It's hilarious that you're salty enough about how things have unraveled to change my avatar though, lmao
Post by: Johnny English on November 24, 2022, 12:27:02 PM
Let's try doing it with football now.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2022, 12:35:20 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 12:50:00 PM
It's hilarious that you're salty enough about how things have unraveled to change my avatar though, lmao
It suits you a lot more.
And i'm not salty, you're just an annoying queynte.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 24, 2022, 12:52:56 PM
Can't really complain that he's not being coached correctly or responding to the coaching he's getting, then complain when he does something well as a result of good coaching.
Let's try doing it with football now.
100% this
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 24, 2022, 12:56:18 PM
It's a very low bar to ask Zach Wilson not to be an derriere in a press conference after losing his job. I'm glad he did it, and he said all the right things, but it shouldn't be that hard to take responsibility 3 days after you screwed up.
People double-down on bad behavior all the time, even to their own detriment (see: West, Kanye)
The hope here is that this benching hurt Zach enough to motivate him and make him realize the team is bigger than its first-round pick
This may have been the only reasonable first step forward, but it is a step forward
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2022, 01:05:39 PM
People double-down on bad behavior all the time, even to their own detriment (see: West, Kanye)Again, it's a very low bar to ask a guy to not act like Kanye West.
The hope here is that this benching hurt Zach enough to motivate him and make him realize the team is bigger than its first-round pick
This may have been the only reasonable first step forward, but it is a step forward
How many quarterbacks have had a comment like Zach and doubled down on it? Anyone? Ever?
I'm happy with what Zach said, but it's damage control at this point.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 01:12:05 PM
Again, it's a very low bar to ask a guy to not act like Kanye West.
How many quarterbacks have had a comment like Zach and doubled down on it? Anyone? Ever?
I'm happy with what Zach said, but it's damage control at this point.
Wait...so you don't think the message got across to Wilson and that he's just paying lipservice to the media?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2022, 01:25:16 PM
Wait...so you don't think the message got across to Wilson and that he's just paying lipservice to the media?I think Zach has gotten in a lot of lazy habits, both on and off the field, and some of that comes because he's basically been handed the job without any threat to his job. I think he got a little bit entitled, and he let his habits slip.
That's why I was happy we threatened his job this week. I thought he needed a kick in the derriere. The Jets thought he needed a full reset and benched him entirely.
He did a good job talking yesterday, but it's still damage control. Quite frankly, all that matters is whether or not he can play. And so far, it appears like the answer is no. And the Jets benching him tells you they agree, at least right now.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 01:30:19 PM
I think Zach has gotten in a lot of lazy habits, both on and off the field, and some of that comes because he's basically been handed the job without any threat to his job. I think he got a little bit entitled, and he let his habits slip.
That's why I was happy we threatened his job this week. I thought he needed a kick in the derriere. The Jets thought he needed a full reset and benched him entirely.
He did a good job talking yesterday, but it's still damage control. Quite frankly, all that matters is whether or not he can play. And so far, it appears like the answer is no. And the Jets benching him tells you they agree, at least right now.
fair assessment.
I still think he can play though. The Jets benching doesn't say he can't play, it says he needs more time...which is fair.
And you know my feelings on MLF.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2022, 01:42:15 PM
I still think he can play though. The Jets benching doesn't say he can't play, it says he needs more time...which is fair.It tells you that the Jets care more about winning in 2022 than Zach's long-term development. Which is a change from what it used to be.
And it's especially noteworthy because you say he needs time. And maybe he does. But if he's not playing, we won't really be giving him a chance. And if Zach doesn't take a big step forward between now and the end of 2023, I don't know how you can look at him as the primary answer.
That's also another reason why Rodgers is appealing to me next year. If he only wants to play 1-2 years, fine. If the Jets actually believe in Zach, then that shouldn't be a problem.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 01:48:41 PM
It tells you that the Jets care more about winning in 2022 than Zach's long-term development. Which is a change from what it used to be.
And it's especially noteworthy because you say he needs time. And maybe he does. But if he's not playing, we won't really be giving him a chance. And if Zach doesn't take a big step forward between now and the end of 2023, I don't know how you can look at him as the primary answer.
That's also another reason why Rodgers is appealing to me next year. If he only wants to play 1-2 years, fine. If the Jets actually believe in Zach, then that shouldn't be a problem.
Well...nobody expected the defense to be THIS good this fast. So, you run the risk of losing the lockeroom if you put development over winning right now.
I think you (and some others) are burying Zach a little too quickly.
Your issue is that you think MLF isn't the problem, when there's a very good chance that he is. Tua is a great example of a player turning it around with a new offensive staff.
If Zach still shits the bed in a new system, then i'll be the first to buy what you're selling. But right now it's a little premature.
EDIT: Aaron Rodgers is on record saying he's retiring a Packer after this season. So you can put him coming to NY to sleep right now.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2022, 02:02:33 PM
Well...nobody expected the defense to be THIS good this fast. So, you run the risk of losing the lockeroom if you put development over winning right now.Aaron Rodgers is on record saying lots of excrement that turns out to be wrong, but that's another discussion.
I think you (and some others) are burying Zach a little too quickly.
Your issue is that you think MLF isn't the problem, when there's a very good chance that he is. Tua is a great example of a player turning it around with a new offensive staff.
If Zach still shits the bed in a new system, then i'll be the first to buy what you're selling. But right now it's a little premature.
EDIT: Aaron Rodgers is on record saying he's retiring a Packer after this season. So you can put him coming to NY to sleep right now.
MLF can absolutely be better. But Zach is doing nothing well. Hard to call good plays when your QB either doesn't throw to or misses open receivers.
Part of the reason some of us like LaFleur more than you is because the offense has generally looked better without Zach. Our 2 best offensive games last year were with Zach out. Our best offensive game this year was either CLE or MIA IMO. Browns game was without Zach, while the Dolphins game featured a beautiful play that the players gave LaFleur credit for.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 02:11:14 PM
Aaron Rodgers is on record saying lots of excrement that turns out to be wrong, but that's another discussion.
MLF can absolutely be better. But Zach is doing nothing well. Hard to call good plays when your QB either doesn't throw to or misses open receivers.
Part of the reason some of us like LaFleur more than you is because the offense has generally looked better without Zach. Our 2 best offensive games last year were with Zach out. Our best offensive game this year was either CLE or MIA IMO. Browns game was without Zach, while the Dolphins game featured a beautiful play that the players gave LaFleur credit for.
So Rodgers is lying to himself? lol ok
MLF has wideouts running into each other, he has Ty Johnson taking meaningful snaps, the 5 wide empty sets on 3rd and 1 are beyond retarded. That's just off the top of my head. As far as we know...MLF is just calling plays, what is he doing to help Zach improve? This is a different system, obviously his mechanics and timing need to adapt, is MLF helping him with this? The product on the field tells me whatever MLF is doing hasn't translated.
Clearly Zach needs to take some ownership here, but again, it's not ALL on him. Not until i see him fail under a different OC.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 27, 2022, 06:08:00 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 27, 2022, 06:15:43 PM
Post by: Jumbo on November 27, 2022, 06:17:59 PM
Always funny how everyone hates LaFleur when Zach starts but nobody complains when he doesn't.
the only weeks the receivers can't seem to be schemed open are when Zach starts. Other than that it doesn't usually seem to be a huge issue, either.
Can't even complain about giving Ty Johnson playing time this week, but you can probably chalk that up to playing a terrible defense
Post by: Heismanberg on November 27, 2022, 06:24:32 PM
The Cardinals should hire him to replace Kliff
Post by: Heismanberg on November 27, 2022, 06:24:53 PM
Always funny how everyone hates LaFleur when Zach starts but nobody complains when he doesn't.
We played one of the worst defenses (and teams) in the NFL. Let's see if this keeps up.
Post by: Jumbo on November 27, 2022, 06:41:05 PM
LaFleur schemed Eddie Jackson into tearing his Achilles
The Cardinals should hire him to replace Kliff
If Zach was throwing that ball it would have gone 10 feet over Garrett's head incomplete
Post by: steves850 on November 27, 2022, 06:59:31 PM
We played one of the worst defenses (and teams) in the NFL. Let's see if this keeps up.
Basically this. Enjoy the win, let's see how he does against Minnesota next week.
Post by: Johnny English on November 27, 2022, 07:01:41 PM
Always funny how everyone hates LaFleur
Do they?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 27, 2022, 07:03:27 PM
We played one of the worst defenses (and teams) in the NFL. Let's see if this keeps up.Agree the defense is bad. But every time
Zach sits, the offense looks different. Usually in a good way
Post by: Johnny English on November 27, 2022, 07:04:28 PM
Agree the defense is bad. But every time
Zach sits, the offense looks different. Usually in a good way
We'd have started the season 0-3 without him under center but for Cleveland falling apart.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 27, 2022, 07:07:44 PM
We'd have started the season 0-3 without him under center but for Cleveland falling apart.We scored 2 touchdowns in the final 2 minutes. Obviously we needed help from Cleveland defense but we made plays to win when we needed to.
The defense also improved dramatically aftrt the Q blow-up
Post by: MBGreen on November 27, 2022, 07:19:24 PM
Always funny how everyone hates LaFleur when Zach starts but nobody complains when he doesn't.I already said this in the game thread...but ill gladly eat crow if the Jets offense can repeat this against a real defense.
Post by: Badger on November 27, 2022, 09:17:39 PM
If MLF can do this with Mike White, just imagine what he could do with a Geno Smith level QBUnfortunately Geno Smith's career ended when he got benched in his 2nd season. He was never heard from again.
Post by: delavan on November 28, 2022, 02:16:33 AM
We played one of the worst defenses (and teams) in the NFL. Let's see if this keeps up.
Basically this. Enjoy the win, let's see how he does against Minnesota next week.@ minny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38mE6ba3qj8
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 28, 2022, 02:21:40 AM
Unfortunately Geno Smith's career ended when he got benched in his 2nd season. He was never heard from again.
Geno Smith died 6 years ago.
Post by: delavan on November 28, 2022, 03:27:11 AM
I already said this in the game thread...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Guy_Lafleur_and_fan%2C_March_2013..jpg/320px-Guy_Lafleur_and_fan%2C_March_2013..jpg)
Post by: dcm1602 on November 28, 2022, 08:48:39 AM
Plus it's somewhat impressive considering the weather
Post by: Badger on November 28, 2022, 08:52:52 AM
Bears defense is poorly ranked, but they are the 8th best pass defenseI'm curious what metric that's based on. I know sometimes in the past one half of our defense has looked really good on paper if you just look at YPG but in reality it's because the other half of our D is so bad that teams just exploit that.
Plus it's somewhat impressive considering the weather
Post by: dcm1602 on November 28, 2022, 08:55:03 AM
I'm curious what metric that's based on. I know sometimes in the past one half of our defense has looked really good on paper if you just look at YPG but in reality it's because the other half of our D is so bad that teams just exploit that.
I actually was just looking that up.
It was based on passing ypg
However they're also 14th when it comes to QB rating.
So realistically this is probably a slightly above average pass defense
Albeit injuries did freak them
Post by: Libero_2 on November 28, 2022, 09:11:50 AM
I actually was just looking that up.
It was based on passing ypg
However they're also 14th when it comes to QB rating.
So realistically this is probably a slightly above average pass defense
Albeit injuries did freak them
I mean they were missing 2 starters before the day started and Eddie Jackson blew his leg out on the biggest pass play of the day. So their pass defense was NOT even remotely close to full strength
Post by: Jumbo on November 28, 2022, 02:09:24 PM
I mean they were missing 2 starters before the day started and Eddie Jackson blew his leg out on the biggest pass play of the day. So their pass defense was NOT even remotely close to full strength
Their defense has also been significantly worse without Roquan Smith and Robert Quinn. They've been letting up 35 PPG the past month without those two. The 31 we scored is actually below the average of what they've been giving up defensively recently.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 28, 2022, 02:13:59 PM
Their defense has also been significantly worse without Roquan Smith and Robert Quinn. They've been letting up 35 PPG the past month without those two. The 31 we scored is actually below the average of what they've been giving up defensively recently.
The game vs Dallas where they gave up 49 is skewing that average. Since then, they've given up 35, 31, 27 and 31 to us.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2022, 02:16:25 PM
I just like seeing White (and Flacco) get the ball out quickly.
Post by: Johnny English on November 28, 2022, 03:14:35 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 28, 2022, 06:24:02 PM
Garrett Wilson has 4 TDs this season and none of them were thrown by Zach Wilson.
To be fair no one was catching TDs from Zach. Conklin had 2. Who even caught the other two from Zach? Did Corey Davis have one?
Post by: Johnny English on November 28, 2022, 06:31:48 PM
To be fair no one was catching TDs from Zach. Conklin had 2. Who even caught the other two from Zach? Did Corey Davis have one?
Yes. Davis had one v Pitt, Conklin has two v NE, JRob had one v Buff.
It's a bit of a sad indictment that in 7 games with Wilson under center our #1 receiver has 0 TDs, and in 4 games with backups he has 4 TDs.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2022, 08:43:50 PM
Yes. Davis had one v Pitt, Conklin has two v NE, JRob had one v Buff.Our two young WRs.
It's a bit of a sad indictment that in 7 games with Wilson under center our #1 receiver has 0 TDs, and in 4 games with backups he has 4 TDs.
Elijah Moore
- 25 Rec, 283 yds, 1 TD from Zach (54 targets)
- 38 Rec, 539 yds, 5 TD from others (57 targets)
Garrett Wilson
- 26 Rec, 319 yds, 0 TD from Zach (38 targets)
- 18 Rec, 214 yds, 4 TD from others (41 targets)
Moore's numbers with Zach have been abysmal. Wilson's numbers with Zach are OK on a per-target basis, but the target share drops significantly.
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2022, 03:21:39 PM
Quote
It will be interesting to see who Mark Stoops goes after for the Wildcat’s fourth OC in as many seasons. Early money would be on Rob Calabrese, the quarterback’s coach for the New York Jets, who was nearly hired before Scangarello.
Post by: Jumbo on November 29, 2022, 03:23:48 PM
https://kyinsider.com/kentucky-football-offensive-coordinator-rich-scangarello-let-go/
Stop. No. Please don't take Coach Broccoli
Post by: Libero_2 on November 29, 2022, 05:51:08 PM
Stop. No. Please don't take Coach Broccoli
I love watching people fail upwards in life, just amazing.
I’d also be curious who we would try and replace him with during the offseason.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2022, 03:25:11 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2022, 03:27:41 PM
Hopefully he learns from today and calls future games from the redzone better than this one but he's still proving to be replaceable.
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 03:36:59 PM
We could probably improve this position.
Hopefully he learns from today and calls future games from the redzone better than this one but he's still proving to be replaceable.
This is the problem....he never does.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2022, 03:39:58 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 03:43:29 PM
I don't want to hear "oh, he's doing such a great job".....he's not.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2022, 03:52:35 PM
We've had 450+ yards in back-to-back games, something that had happened literally 5 times in franchise history entering this week.
LaFleur needs to be better, but we're playing a practice squad RB, a journeyman QB, and a patchwork OL and we're still doing pretty well as a unit.
I didn't love the red-zone calls today, but we tried a bunch of different things and none of them worked. OL wasn't getting any push.
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 04:00:22 PM
Red-zone was abysmal today, but we did have 486 yards today, tied for 25th-most in a game in Jets history.
We've had 450+ yards in back-to-back games, something that had happened literally 5 times in franchise history entering this week.
LaFleur needs to be better, but we're playing a practice squad RB, a journeyman QB, and a patchwork OL and we're still doing pretty well as a unit.
I didn't love the red-zone calls today, but we tried a bunch of different things and none of them worked. OL wasn't getting any push.
White had 300+ yrds against a preseason tiered defense last week....maybe dial it back.
You don't win with yards, you win with points.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 04, 2022, 04:02:57 PM
Times?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 04, 2022, 04:04:30 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 04:06:43 PM
@antwanstaley
·
34m
Missed opportunities for the Jets as they went 1-for-6 in the red zone. That sums it up 🤷🏿♂️
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2022, 04:08:23 PM
Post by: Gorilla on December 04, 2022, 04:09:12 PM
Red-zone was abysmal today, but we did have 486 yards today, tied for 25th-most in a game in Jets history.
We've had 450+ yards in back-to-back games, something that had happened literally 5 times in franchise history entering this week.
LaFleur needs to be better, but we're playing a practice squad RB, a journeyman QB, and a patchwork OL and we're still doing pretty well as a unit.
I didn't love the red-zone calls today, but we tried a bunch of different things and none of them worked. OL wasn't getting any push.
This is similar to my "take a breath, take a step back" view (so I can sleep tonight).
There were clear positives in this game. We were beat by a good team in their stadium. We were once again competitive. GWilson is better than anyone expected.
BUT we haaaaad this win, damn it haha. Red zone incompetence was sickening and will be the story until next week.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2022, 04:10:47 PM
This is similar to my "take a breath, take a step back" view (so I can sleep tonight).We've had 4 games with 450+ yards in the last 4 years. All 4 are in Mike White starts. Crazy.
There were clear positives in this game. We were beat by a good team in their stadium. We were once again competitive. GWilson is better than anyone expected.
BUT we haaaaad this win, damn it haha. Red zone incompetence was sickening and will be the story until next week.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2022, 04:11:52 PM
Post by: Gorilla on December 04, 2022, 04:12:12 PM
We've had 4 games with 450+ yards in the last 4 years. All 4 are in Mike White starts. Crazy.
Kurt Warner 2.0 confirmed
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 04:14:10 PM
Yep. We lost this game in the red zone. LaFLeur should take a lot of blame there. But I also give him some credit for helping to get the team into scoring range that many times. That's all.
I give him credit for helping to ruin Zach's career.
Post by: insanity on December 04, 2022, 04:18:12 PM
Knight: 15 carries 90 yards. Why are we throwing 60Because prior to the 2nd to last drive he was averaging 3.5 yards a carry.
Times?
Post by: insanity on December 04, 2022, 04:18:56 PM
Of the five players that finished the game on the OL today, the only one that I definitely want back on the team in their current role is Herbig.I feel like Mcgovern played well today. He was making big blocks down the field.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2022, 04:20:55 PM
I feel like Mcgovern played well today. He was making big blocks down the field.He was good last week, too. I think McGovern is a guy we try to bring back on a reasonable deal. Helps continuity, and he's played well here this year.
OL looked better once we replaced Mitchell with Fant.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2022, 04:21:16 PM
Because prior to the 2nd to last drive he was averaging 3.5 yards a carry.
Which means if we handed the ball to him 3 times in a row we'd net a first down.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2022, 04:21:54 PM
Which means if we handed the ball to him 3 times in a row we'd net a first down.WHat if we threw the ball 3 straight times with that math?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2022, 04:27:54 PM
I feel like Mcgovern played well today. He was making big blocks down the field.
He's a toss up. I don't think he's done enough to take C off the board in the draft but I wouldn't be pissed if he returns.
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 04:28:37 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2022, 04:29:14 PM
WHat if we threw the ball 3 straight times with that math?
What if we called a flea-flicker 3 times in a row?
The point was comparing the ground game of two HBs, this is a different conversation.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 04, 2022, 04:36:11 PM
Post by: insanity on December 04, 2022, 04:51:36 PM
Which means if we handed the ball to him 3 times in a row we'd net a first down.What point are you trying to make? Bam got 15 of the 20 rb carries...
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2022, 04:55:19 PM
What point are you trying to make? Bam got 15 of the 20 rb carries...
That the guy the Jacksonville Jaguars were willing to part with for a 5th round pick and was jumped by a practice squad player probably isn't very good and seeing people complain that we're not giving him the ball is annoying.
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 05:04:56 PM
That the guy the Jacksonville Jaguars were willing to part with for a 5th round pick and was jumped by a practice squad player probably isn't very good and seeing people complain that we're not giving him the ball is annoying.
Does it really matter if we're throwing 60x a game?
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 05:08:11 PM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
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7m
Re-watching the fourth-down pass to Berrios from the 1. #Jets were in empty, with Knight split wide. Why not have a RB in the backfield to keep alive the threat of a run?
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 05:16:42 PM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
6m
Jets ran 24 plays in the red zone for 36 yards -- 1.5 yards per play. This isn't a new issue. They began the day at 2.1 ypp, 28th in the league. #Jets
"He's doing a good job"
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2022, 05:17:12 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2022, 05:17:59 PM
Yards per play in the red zone is a terrible stat.
how convenient for you
Post by: Coach K on December 04, 2022, 05:22:47 PM
Now that Zach isn't there to blame...I think i've seen enough from Lafleur. He isn't moving the needle for this offense. Today was a winnable game (despite some early bullshit from the refs). I still can't believe how many times we settled for FGs because MLF is overthinking the Red Zone playcalling.MLF is not awful. He's just the very definition of average
I don't want to hear "oh, he's doing such a great job".....he's not.
It's clear that white is way better than zach in reading defenses and decision making and mechanics in general.
It's all situational placyall8ng at this point . The run was solid enough to where you don't ask Mike freaking white to throw 58 times
We had success when they run blitzed and we passed .
So why abandon the run even if you're forcing yourself into 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 4
Better than 3rd and 7 because all you did was get some bullshit screen or comeback
White missed a few drags and verticals reads with Moore but its stuff zach missed his whole career
MLF is not bad . He's just not objectively good . So that'll stand out regardless who's at QB when you play a playoff team . And this was what happened today
The defense excrement the bed 1st half and looked how they looked all yr 2nd half
Today we were the 01 bucs without as good of a defense so that won't win games
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2022, 05:24:00 PM
Red-zone was abysmal today, but we did have 486 yards today, tied for 25th-most in a game in Jets history.
We've had 450+ yards in back-to-back games, something that had happened literally 5 times in franchise history entering this week.
LaFleur needs to be better, but we're playing a practice squad RB, a journeyman QB, and a patchwork OL and we're still doing pretty well as a unit.
I didn't love the red-zone calls today, but we tried a bunch of different things and none of them worked. OL wasn't getting any push.
We didn’t try a lot of different things though.
He featured Braxton Berrios in the redzone. That’s awful personnel management and even worst situational play-calling.
You can’t blame the QB this time. It’s bad play calling.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2022, 05:25:18 PM
Yards per play in the red zone is a terrible stat.
Depending on a smurf gadget player in the red zone is terrible coaching.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2022, 05:26:18 PM
That the guy the Jacksonville Jaguars were willing to part with for a 5th round pick and was jumped by a practice squad player probably isn't very good and seeing people complain that we're not giving him the ball is annoying.
I mean James Robinson was undrafted too. Why can’t a healthy UDFA like Bam Knight be a diamond in the rough?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2022, 05:56:43 PM
I mean James Robinson was undrafted too. Why can’t a healthy UDFA like Bam Knight be a diamond in the rough?
What part of that post is saying that Knight isn't?
Post by: delavan on December 04, 2022, 10:32:13 PM
He was good last week, too. I think McGovern is a guy we try to bring back on a reasonable deal. Helps continuity, and he's played well here this year.True but that block in the back penalty on Fant in the red zone was inexcusable.
OL looked better once we replaced Mitchell with Fant.
Bam had 15 for 90 but take away the one 48 yd. run he was 14 for 42 (3.0). Not a knock on Bam (kid was good), more on the OL who had sand kicked in their face at the end. As it was Bam bailed out the OL by spinning out of a no-gainer at the 5 yd. line and getting it down to the 1 only to have OL spit the bit again....so frustrating....
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 05, 2022, 11:06:27 AM
One thing I noticed in the red zone...we never attempted a single fade route. Toss it up for Wilson and let him make a play.
I'd rather that, than a bullet to Berrios
Post by: Johnny English on December 05, 2022, 11:12:20 AM
Just rewatched all of White's throws from the game.
One thing I noticed in the red zone...we never attempted a single fade route. Toss it up for Wilson and let him make a play.
I'd rather that, than a bullet to Berrios
We tried one, but Garrett slipped and the throw landed in the corner with no one anywhere near.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2022, 11:21:35 AM
We tried one, but Garrett slipped and the throw landed in the corner with no one anywhere near.We tried QB sneaks, inside runs, outside runs, trick plays, fade routes, inside routes, and screens. None of it worked except for a QB sneak, and even that didn't go according to plan.
I would have kept trying to run it more. My biggest gripe with LaFleur has always been that we don't run the ball enough on 3rd and short and 4th and short. But I don't know if it would have worked.
Post by: Johnny English on December 05, 2022, 11:24:09 AM
We tried QB sneaks, inside runs, outside runs, trick plays, fade routes, inside routes, and screens. None of it worked except for a QB sneak, and even that didn't go according to plan.
I would have kept trying to run it more. My biggest gripe with LaFleur has always been that we don't run the ball enough on 3rd and short and 4th and short. But I don't know if it would have worked.
Yeah. Again, we weren't making any room for runners up the middle. The only success we had running the ball was to the edges, and it's much more difficult to do that when you're goal to go.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2022, 11:26:30 AM
The exception is if the Jets think he is bad at developing young QBs. Clearly, he hasn't done a great job developing Zach, but is that because of LaFleur or is that because we drafted a likely bust?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 11:27:53 AM
Which means if we handed the ball to him 3 times in a row we'd net a first down.
Yeah but let's take out his long run though because hey it's monumentally freaking retarded but let's do it anyway.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 05, 2022, 11:27:57 AM
We tried QB sneaks, inside runs, outside runs, trick plays, fade routes, inside routes, and screens. None of it worked except for a QB sneak, and even that didn't go according to plan.
I would have kept trying to run it more. My biggest gripe with LaFleur has always been that we don't run the ball enough on 3rd and short and 4th and short. But I don't know if it would have worked.
Well we don’t run on 3rd and 4th and short, because we fail at it consistently. So now nobody has any faith that we can pick it up the ground so we only run it to break tendency rather than create tendency
Post by: MBGreen on December 05, 2022, 11:28:51 AM
The exception is if the Jets think he is bad at developing young QBs. Clearly, he hasn't done a great job developing Zach, but is that because of LaFleur or is that because we drafted a likely bust?
You answer this question by bringing in another OC
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2022, 11:30:10 AM
You answer this question by bringing in another OCOr by bringing in another QB. You can do either one. It's up to the Jets to evaluate who the bigger issue is.
Considering the Jets offense looks significantly better every time Wilson is out, I tend to think we drafted a lemon. We developed White into a guy that we feel relatively comfortable starting. What is Zach's problem?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2022, 11:31:25 AM
we never attempted a single fade route.
this is a good thing
we should probably use the tight ends in the red zone though
or you know, just run the ball from the 1 yard line
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 11:31:45 AM
Yards per play in the red zone is a terrible stat.
Yes, and it shouldn't take a math genius to figure out why.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 11:33:38 AM
You answer this question by bringing in another OC
No, this staff is monumentally better than last year. They also made a lot of good adjustments at half time. I can't remember the last time that happened regularly and it's happened all freaking season
Post by: Badger on December 05, 2022, 12:04:26 PM
Yeah but let's take out his long run though because hey it's monumentally freaking retarded but let's do it anyway.If anyone was doing it to downplay his performance on Sunday it would be retarded.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 12:15:27 PM
If anyone was doing it to downplay his performance on Sunday it would be retarded.
I absolutely hate that argument when dealing with RB's and yet the idiots do it.
Post by: Badger on December 05, 2022, 12:16:34 PM
I absolutely hate that argument when dealing with RB's and yet the idiots do it.I remember it came up a lot with Thomas Jones in 2008-09.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 12:19:49 PM
I remember it came up a lot with Thomas Jones in 2008-09.
Yeah, I remember, Curtis Martin was the outlier, no other back is really remotely like that.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 05, 2022, 12:44:29 PM
We tried one, but Garrett slipped and the throw landed in the corner with no one anywhere near.
I remember that play. Someone, I think Charles Davis, was complaining that he didn't throw the underneath route (Moore?) but Wilson slipped right as White was making the throw. If that didn't happen Wilson would have been in for 6.
EDIT: Apparently this happened twice. First one wasn't a fade but 9:52 left in the 3rd Wilson slipped in his cut right as White through it and it would up just out of reach.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2022, 01:02:04 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 05, 2022, 01:22:17 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1599837284102438913
lol Cimini...no i KNOW my take is reasonable.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1599837284102438913
Dick is 100% correct for once and not stirring up excrement.
Post by: MBGreen on December 05, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
Dick is 100% correct for once and not stirring up excrement.
he's never correct
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Dick is 100% correct for once and not stirring up excrement.
how is he correct?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2022, 04:20:43 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 05:17:26 PM
how is he correct?
How is he not correct?
Post by: insanity on December 05, 2022, 05:38:13 PM
Yeah but let's take out his long run though because hey it's monumentally freaking retarded but let's do it anyway.You mean it's completely logical...
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2022, 06:03:14 PM
How is he not correct?
He called a reverse pass, a Jet sweep, and a tunnel screen in the redzone
We also went 5 wide at the goal line
It’s awful situational play calling
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 05, 2022, 06:46:03 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1599890423694168064
This makes me want to puke
Post by: Libero_2 on December 05, 2022, 07:05:52 PM
This makes me want to puke
The man loves the empty set.
Hopefully somebody convinces him that he runs it more than anyone else in the League at the worst moments.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 08:06:33 PM
He called a reverse pass, a Jet sweep, and a tunnel screen in the redzone
We also went 5 wide at the goal line
It’s awful situational play calling
So the freak what....
He's in his second year and improving whether you and some of the other loud voices listen to the truth or not. He has had arguably the single worst QB in the NFL, yes Zach Wilson, play a good chunk of the last two years. Yeah let's get rid of him because there's thousands of better guys available, especially a few posting here.
freak no, I will live with ac few mistakes rather than do something stupid and rash. Get rid of the trash like Zach Wilson, and get a competent or better QB, if it's White so be it, and then if he fucks up fire him.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2022, 08:07:44 PM
He's in his second year
Someone else is also in his second year
Post by: dcm1602 on December 05, 2022, 08:35:34 PM
Someone else is also in his second year
Only one of the two is top 32 in the league at their job
Zachs been outplayed by 3 different QB's, on his own team
Post by: steves850 on December 05, 2022, 08:41:23 PM
Only one of the two is top 32 in the league at their job
Zachs been outplayed by 3 different QB's, on his own team
At least we don't have the albatross that is Russell Wilson's contract. I'm pretty sure Wilson vs Wilson is pretty similar from a stats perspective.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 05, 2022, 08:47:31 PM
At least we don't have the albatross that is Russell Wilson's contract. I'm pretty sure Wilson vs Wilson is pretty similar from a stats perspective.
The other Wilson's contract is obviously cancer
But be is averaging 75 ish more passing yards a game, over 5% more completion %, and actually has a positive TD to int ratio.
They're both awful, but Russ is probably a top 25 QB by some freaking metric
Post by: steves850 on December 05, 2022, 09:19:10 PM
The other Wilson's contract is obviously cancer
But be is averaging 75 ish more passing yards a game, over 5% more completion %, and actually has a positive TD to int ratio.
They're both awful, but Russ is probably a top 25 QB by some freaking metric
Kinda proves that half the metrics don't mean dick. You can twist statistics to fit your narrative.
Post by: MBGreen on December 05, 2022, 09:24:27 PM
So the freak what....Lol
He's in his second year and improving whether you and some of the other loud voices listen to the truth or not. He has had arguably the single worst QB in the NFL, yes Zach Wilson, play a good chunk of the last two years. Yeah let's get rid of him because there's thousands of better guys available, especially a few posting here.
freak no, I will live with ac few mistakes rather than do something stupid and rash. Get rid of the trash like Zach Wilson, and get a competent or better QB, if it's White so be it, and then if he fucks up fire him.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 09:47:14 PM
Lol
Hey Heis what's your opinion so I can have one because I never had an original thought ever?
Post by: MBGreen on December 05, 2022, 09:51:04 PM
Hey Heis what's your opinion so I can have one because I never had an original thought ever?Or...take the easy road and just spout off the wrong opinions because you've watched maybe 3 games over the last 2 seasons.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2022, 09:53:22 PM
So the freak what....
What does Zach Wilson have to do with calling 5 wide empty at the one yard line with Mike White at QB?
He called multiple gimmick plays when we need to score touchdowns and it backfired. It was all around bad.
Berrios had a crucial drop but we wouldn't have been in that situation had we bunched it in earlier.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 05, 2022, 09:57:11 PM
What does Zach Wilson have to do with calling 5 wide empty at the one yard line with Mike White at QB?
He called multiple gimmick plays when we need to score touchdowns and it backfired. It was all around bad.
Berrios had a crucial drop but we wouldn't have been in that situation had we bunched it in earlier.
Saying “Let’s bunch it in!” incessantly from now on.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2022, 09:58:51 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 05, 2022, 10:00:07 PM
Post by: Jumbo on December 05, 2022, 10:17:42 PM
-Starting 3 different QBs for multiple games
-Losing our star RB after a few games
-Outside GW, mediocre pass catchers
-Complete mess of a patchwork OL including losing our best OL
The trick plays sucked last game but we've had varying success with it through the year - i.e. Berrios with 9 rushes for 91 yards on the year.
Yeah, the scheme isn't amazing and there have been some strange playcalls, but the gripes about LaFleur are starting to border on completely delusional.
If we had these bizarre playcalls and the offense was still in the 25-32 range it has been in for the past decade maybe I'd be more understanding of wanting him fired, but as it stands, there is no logical reason to want him fired.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2022, 10:35:40 PM
The yards don’t matter if we can’t score points
Post by: Badger on December 05, 2022, 10:40:28 PM
He's in his second year
Hmmm
Post by: Jumbo on December 05, 2022, 10:41:47 PM
We are one of the worst red zone teams in football
The yards don’t matter if we can’t score points
We're 18th in the NFL in PPG. That would be our highest ranking since we were 11th in 2015. Especially relative to our recent history, we are scoring points. With all the injuries and issues at QB, we are scoring points like an average NFL team. How is that a fireable offense?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 05, 2022, 10:45:10 PM
Considering White got the td the previous series on the goal line, why not try the sneak on third down if that's what you're going to do on 4th. Horrible.
He's besties with the coach and they'll be able to sell their ranking as to why he shouldn't get shitcanned. All we can do is hope for improvement.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 05, 2022, 11:23:10 PM
Hmmm
Hmmm hivemind. Hey Heis when can I take a excrement, is now ok?
Yes I don't want MLF fired and yes I want ZW launched into the sun. Two entirely different animals.
Post by: delavan on December 06, 2022, 12:31:20 AM
MLF playing footies
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M1gf4DBhCWgeI/giphy.gif)
MLF playing football...stopped?....freaking pound it again
(https://media.giphy.com/media/GpLmqwmHWGc5G/giphy.gif)
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 06, 2022, 02:47:51 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 06, 2022, 02:54:19 AM
We are one of the worst red zone teams in football
The yards don’t matter if we can’t score points
FWIW we were 32nd in red zone scoring Gases last year. Last year we were 20th, thus year we're 26th. Despite the fact that we're down to our 3rd string QB and 3rd string RB.
26th obviously isn't any good, but let's see if that increases now that we have a QB who can hit a screen pass
I can understand the current outrage atm as this latest 3 game stretch we've been the second worst in the league (for those 3 games specifically)
That said I think you have to see how the season plays out because of how rapidly things change.
Prior to this current 3 game skid, back when we had a Breece Hall we were 13th in redzone scoring. Since then the ZW New England game plus this Minnesota game torpedoed that.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 07:06:28 AM
We're 18th in the NFL in PPG. That would be our highest ranking since we were 11th in 2015. Especially relative to our recent history, we are scoring points. With all the injuries and issues at QB, we are scoring points like an average NFL team. How is that a fireable offense?
Looking forward to some flea flickers from the Bills 5 yard line on Sunday.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 07:08:05 AM
Hmmm hivemind. Hey Heis when can I take a excrement, is now ok?
Yes I don't want MLF fired and yes I want ZW launched into the sun. Two entirely different animals.
I respect your opinion, Puck. It's horrendously wrong, but i respect it.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2022, 07:18:04 AM
The “ZW New England game” where we went …0/1 in the redzone absolutely has everything to do with this.
(We went 2/3 in the RZ against them in the first matchup)
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2022, 07:20:10 AM
The tunnel screen to Berrios sure worked out well
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 07:22:06 AM
The yards don’t matter if we can’t score points
This needs to be stamped on a few foreheads here.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2022, 08:10:04 AM
The empty sets make me want to punch him in the face, the lack of getting TEs involved is downright puzzling, not running the ball within 5 of the goal line makes little sense
Still, if a couple of passes don't get dropped/bounced into a defender's hands, or some penalties get called correctly, or Berrios keeps his hands on the ball, we're having a completely different conversation right now
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2022, 08:19:12 AM
Hmmm hivemind. Hey Heis when can I take a excrement, is now ok?I don't want MLF fired (or maybe more accurately I know he's gonna be here next year regardless so I have hope he can show improvement). I also think writing off our 2nd year QB is stupid and premature. But I can't help that the fan base has the patience of a flea after a string of failed QB picks.
Yes I don't want MLF fired and yes I want ZW launched into the sun. Two entirely different animals.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2022, 08:20:09 AM
You can maybe blame Berrios for one of the failed attempts because of the drop
We were fine offensively outside of the redzone
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 08:25:31 AM
We were 1 for 6 in the redzone
You can maybe blame Berrios for one of the failed attempts because of the drop
We were fine offensively outside of the redzone
and that "1" was nearly blown up. We easily could've been 0 for 6.
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2022, 08:35:23 AM
and that "1" was nearly blown up. We easily could've been 0 for 6.If you take away the touchdown we scored, we wouldn't have scored any touchdowns
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2022, 08:52:03 AM
If you take away the touchdown we scored, we wouldn't have scored any touchdowns
"I didn't seen Zach Wilson score any touchdowns against the Vikings!"
Post by: dcm1602 on December 06, 2022, 08:54:17 AM
Ah yes dcm,
The “ZW New England game” where we went …0/1 in the redzone absolutely has everything to do with this.
(We went 2/3 in the RZ against them in the first matchup)
You can pull up the redzone rankings for any week of the season
The Jets were 13th before that game
I'm not suggesting that was the straw that broke the camels back (presumably Minnesota was) but it is what it is
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2022, 09:00:26 AM
You can pull up the redzone rankings for any week of the season
so can you but I suppose that doesn't mean you can read it
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 09:03:28 AM
If you take away the touchdown we scored, we wouldn't have scored any touchdowns
I'll wait for Puck to confirm this...nobody adds up a restaurant bill like that guy.
Post by: steves850 on December 06, 2022, 10:32:26 AM
Ah yes dcm,
The “ZW New England game” where we went …0/1 in the redzone absolutely has everything to do with this.
(We went 2/3 in the RZ against them in the first matchup)
0/1 is 0% and 0% is a bad number.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 06, 2022, 10:47:36 AM
My suggestion: OC Mike LolFleur
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 10:49:06 AM
I am officially asking for a change to the title of this thread.
My suggestion: OC Mike LolFleur
LaFleur Rouge....cause he's so good in the Redzone.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 06, 2022, 10:54:35 AM
and that "1" was nearly blown up. We easily could've been 0 for 6.So you're going to complain about not sneaking the ball from the 1 more, and you're also going to complain about how sneaking the ball from the 1 almost didn't work? What plays did you want called that would have worked?
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 11:11:24 AM
So you're going to complain about not sneaking the ball from the 1 more, and you're also going to complain about how sneaking the ball from the 1 almost didn't work? What plays did you want called that would have worked?
Go into madden, select all 30 running plays from the goal line playbook, and pick one.
And i'll complain about MLF until he doesn't deserve it. So don't hold your breath. It's going to be awhile.
Post by: delavan on December 06, 2022, 11:21:18 AM
Looking forward to some flea flickers from the Bills 5 yard line on Sunday.#phillyspecial
Post by: Miamipuck on December 06, 2022, 11:31:43 AM
I respect your opinion, Puck. It's horrendously wrong, but i respect it.
It's not and you don't.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 06, 2022, 11:38:00 AM
I don't want MLF fired (or maybe more accurately I know he's gonna be here next year regardless so I have hope he can show improvement). I also think writing off our 2nd year QB is stupid and premature. But I can't help that the fan base has the patience of a flea after a string of failed QB picks.You're right normally it is retarded to just right off a 2nd year QB like that. It's not an arbitrary decision on my part. He can't do simple little things let alone anything complicated. He's awful on just about every single level you can judge a qb, advanced analytics, regular analytics, eye test.
I don't have patience with ZW because I don't think you can fix what ails him short of outright cutting him. I have seen it before, a QB that bad has never gone on to be even a decent starter in the NFL. That said, in two years time we can revisit and if he's any good I would happily eat an entire plate of crow at a tailgate.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 06, 2022, 12:45:25 PM
Yet we have this much rage and complaining about Lafleur
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2022, 12:47:25 PM
He definitely abandons the run too often. He calls way too many empty backfield sets. He calls too many gadget plays and not enough playaction
All that said, there is a lot of bad execution on the field. Too many times guys are getting both hands on the ball and dropping, or worse bouncing the ball into the air
I don't think it's time to write anyone off yet. Not LaFleur, not Zach, and not White
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 01:19:19 PM
It's not and you don't.
it very much is, and i'm starting not to.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 01:20:26 PM
Our previous OC is the freaking tight ends coach for the Arkansas Razorbacks (whatever the freak that is)
Yet we have this much rage and complaining about Lafleur
Lafleur should be fetching his coffee
Post by: Miamipuck on December 06, 2022, 01:35:06 PM
it very much is, and i'm starting not to.
DC
Post by: bojanglesman on December 06, 2022, 01:36:30 PM
I am officially asking for a change to the title of this thread.
My suggestion: OC Mike LolFleur
Seconded.
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 01:45:59 PM
DC
do you need a hug, you curmudgeon?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 06, 2022, 01:54:51 PM
it very much is, and i'm starting not to.
DC
do you need a hug, you curmudgeon?
I need an assault rifle, can you get me one in Canada?
Post by: MBGreen on December 06, 2022, 02:02:01 PM
I need an assault rifle, can you get me one in Canada?
nope...our gov't was smart enough to make them illegal.
Post by: Gorilla on December 06, 2022, 02:39:40 PM
I don't think anyone is defending the horrible RZ performance, and I think we can all agree the playcalling wasn't good, no matter which side of the MLF argument you fall on
He definitely abandons the run too often. He calls way too many empty backfield sets. He calls too many gadget plays and not enough playaction
All that said, there is a lot of bad execution on the field. Too many times guys are getting both hands on the ball and dropping, or worse bouncing the ball into the air
I don't think it's time to write anyone off yet. Not LaFleur, not Zach, and not White
Yep, this is my thinking, as well. Seems reasonable.
The last couple of pages of this thread are amazing lol. Some Verne Troyer-sized hills that have flags planted in them and are being defended....but only for a week and after a crappy loss, I get it. The other options are yelling into our pillow or going to TGG. (shudder)
LaFleur's RZ playcalling was crap this game, but that'd have been mitigated if Berrios makes a catch...a catch that maybe EMoore should have been schemed for.
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2022, 05:59:35 PM
So you're going to complain about not sneaking the ball from the 1 more, and you're also going to complain about how sneaking the ball from the 1 almost didn't work?
Sidenote, in my boomer Jets fan group text somebody said Zach wouldn't have scored on the sneak. I was like... that's the play you're gonna claim he couldn't have done? I'd probably point to one of the throws under pressure.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 06, 2022, 06:00:46 PM
Sidenote, in my boomer Jets fan group text somebody said Zach wouldn't have scored on the sneak. I was like... that's the play you're gonna claim he couldn't have done? I'd probably point to one of the throws under pressure.
I'm not sure if MLF taught him that play yet
Post by: Johnny English on December 06, 2022, 06:09:37 PM
I'm not sure if MLF taught him that play yet
Have we even seen him try it? I'm sure we have but I can't recall one, it seems to be a play that's noticeably absent from our playbook.
Post by: reuben on December 06, 2022, 06:11:48 PM
Have we even seen him try it? I'm sure we have but I can't recall one, it seems to be a play that's noticeably absent from our playbook.
He tried it on 4th and 2 last season.
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2022, 06:13:45 PM
He tried it on 4th and 2 last season.On then on the SNY post game show they said it was a sign of a character flaw (that he ran the called play).
Post by: delavan on December 07, 2022, 09:23:42 AM
Well fwiw, on the pass play where White pulled it down…… hesitated……. and then tried to run it in (only to get stuffed at the one yard line), Zach would’ve made it.
Sidenote, in my boomer Jets fan group text somebody said Zach wouldn't have scored on the sneak. I was like... that's the play you're gonna claim he couldn't have done? I'd probably point to one of the throws under pressure.
Otoh, White showed some major sack completing that 4th down pass after getting crushed by Danielle Hunter the play before.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 07, 2022, 09:38:24 AM
On then on the SNY post game show they said it was a sign of a character flaw (that he ran the called play).
The Buccs game? Wasn’t that play supposed to be a jet sweep to Berrios, or was it an option?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 09, 2022, 08:30:13 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
21h
OC Mike LaFleur on fourth-and-1 play: “Unorthodox” to go with empty backfield, but liked play call — a play they had practiced for six weeks. Thought about QB sneak on 3rd down, but recalled how they barely scored on previous QB sneak. Surprised White TD was overturned. #Jets
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1600896118870745094?s=20&t=eAbAZb6RR1uAIYV3j2LsHg (https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1600896118870745094?s=20&t=eAbAZb6RR1uAIYV3j2LsHg)
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2022, 08:55:56 AM
LaFleur on why he went for it with an empty backfield at the goal line on 4th down:
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1600896118870745094?s=20&t=eAbAZb6RR1uAIYV3j2LsHg (https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1600896118870745094?s=20&t=eAbAZb6RR1uAIYV3j2LsHg)
he should still stick his head in the nearest microwave.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 09, 2022, 10:35:29 AM
he should still stick his head in the nearest microwave.
Question: do you practice what you preach?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 09, 2022, 10:39:28 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 09, 2022, 10:47:35 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2022, 10:49:09 AM
Question: do you practice what you preach?
Answer: if you watched the games, you'd understand.
Post by: klaximilian on December 09, 2022, 12:16:25 PM
Answer: if you watched the games, you'd understand.
I understand that you're the MLF of this message board. Everyone thinks you suck and you're completely oblivious of it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2022, 12:26:32 PM
LaFleur on why he went for it with an empty backfield at the goal line on 4th down:Totally understand the logic that it barely worked, and it didn't work as scripted...
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1600896118870745094?s=20&t=eAbAZb6RR1uAIYV3j2LsHg (https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1600896118870745094?s=20&t=eAbAZb6RR1uAIYV3j2LsHg)
...but you still have to try it at least once. Even when it didn't work...it still worked...
That said, the play was there and hit Berrios in the hands.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 09, 2022, 12:28:33 PM
Totally understand the logic that it barely worked, and it didn't work as scripted...
...but you still have to try it at least once. Even when it didn't work...it still worked...
That said, the play was there and hit Berrios in the hands.
Berrios definitely had the chance to win it, but not going for it at least once was just hairbrained.
Part of the problem is that the Vikes controlled our OLine for much of the game. Someone posted Knight having an insane yards after first contact stat but so many of those first contact hits at or behind the LOS.
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2022, 12:52:01 PM
I understand that you're the MLF of this message board. Everyone thinks you suck and you're completely oblivious of it.
Oh hey there guy
Post by: Miamipuck on December 09, 2022, 04:21:56 PM
Answer: if you watched the games, you'd understand.
But why
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2022, 05:15:44 PM
But whyOperation: Horsefly
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2022, 05:27:43 PM
I am officially asking for a change to the title of this thread.
My suggestion: OC Mike LolFleur
Seconded.
...still waiting on that thread title change.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2022, 01:32:47 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2022, 01:37:17 PM
Post by: Jumbo on December 11, 2022, 01:57:26 PM
Mods, can we change this thread title to "Rising Star Mike LaFleur"
Rising Star Mike LolFleur, as a compromise
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2022, 02:06:43 PM
Rising Star Mike LolFleur, as a compromiseBest suggestion so far
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2022, 07:13:19 PM
Mike McDaniel is doing the same thing in Miami.
Yeah, Breece Hall is hurt but it doesn't matter who their running backs are in SF or MIA. They get results out of them. We're fortunately seeing some good stuff from Knight but he's also usually making something out of nothing.
MLF, a former passing game coordinator in a run heavy offense, doesn't know the run game like these guys - he doesn't know how or when to call it. Benton has coached zone schemes for a very long time but a lot of it was heavy under center.
You can definitely say that Wilson hurt the passing offense, but both QBs aren't being helped by the run scheme or the formations.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 11, 2022, 07:17:29 PM
Everything in Shanahan's offense is based around the run game, specifically inside zone. He also features a fullback in his scheme. Brock Purdy is not more talented than Zach Wilson and look how efficient he was today.I have noticed that we have a very uncreative running game.
Mike McDaniel is doing the same thing in Miami.
Yeah, Breece Hall is hurt but it doesn't matter who their running backs are in SF or MIA. They get results out of them. We're fortunately seeing some good stuff from Knight but he's also usually making something out of nothing.
MLF, a former passing game coordinator in a run heavy offense, doesn't know the run game like these guys - he doesn't know how or when to call it. Benton has coached zone schemes for a very long time but a lot of it was heavy under center.
You can definitely say that Wilson hurt the passing offense, but both QBs aren't being helped by the run scheme or the formations.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 11, 2022, 07:25:04 PM
I have noticed that we have a very uncreative running game.
It's the same three concepts, all out of shotgun. We run power, inside zone, and outside zone. For whatever reason, we scratched the quick toss play that worked occasionally early in the season. Knight would be fine in that concept.
We never have a lead blocker. We have a lot of plays where we motion the TE in or use the opposite tight end as a puller, but those plays just take too long to develop.
I get that Bawden is hurt. Why not put Ruckert at fullback?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2022, 08:29:20 PM
Mods, can we change this thread title to "Rising Star Mike LaFleur"Renaming it to "Fuckhead" conserves space usage in the database.
Post by: reuben on December 11, 2022, 08:40:48 PM
I get that Bawden is hurt. Why not put Ruckert at fullback?
Nick Bawden never should have been in our plans to begin with, he's made of glass and has been on IR four out of five seasons. But it's especially absurd that a whole chapter of the playbook is gone because we never hired/trained a replacement.
Then again, MLF would probably put him in motion and have him run go routes every play, so who knows if it would've helped.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2022, 08:45:51 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2022, 08:49:52 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 11, 2022, 10:30:44 PM
That fumble is as much on LaFleur/play call as it was on Flacco and Remmers. And we never recovered from it.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2022, 12:33:00 PM
I like Saleh a lot. But this is becoming like my biggest Rex complaint. I don't care that your background is as a defensive coach, you're the head coach now. It's your job to get your coaches in line. Saleh sees the same playcalling we do. Why isn't he pulling LaFleur into his office and saying "Run the damn ball!" or "Stop going 5-wide!"?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 13, 2022, 12:39:21 PM
Saleh sees the same playcalling we do. Why isn't he pulling LaFleur into his office and saying "Run the damn ball!" or "Stop going 5-wide!"?
It sounds like something like this happened after the second game against New England* but their only true adjustment to that was making a change at QB and RB. Both moves have been improvements but the play calling has been subpar.
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2022, 01:23:03 PM
We keep bringing up LaFleur in other threads, and a question came to mind: when do we start getting on Saleh's case for MLF?FWIW Rex threw Schotty under the bus after 3 years with him. But he kind of inherited him as OC, he wasn't brought with him the way Saleh did MLF. So I'm not sure we can expect him to sacrifice his buddy.
I like Saleh a lot. But this is becoming like my biggest Rex complaint. I don't care that your background is as a defensive coach, you're the head coach now. It's your job to get your coaches in line. Saleh sees the same playcalling we do. Why isn't he pulling LaFleur into his office and saying "Run the damn ball!" or "Stop going 5-wide!"?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2022, 02:03:38 PM
It sounds like something like this happened after the second game against New England* but their only true adjustment to that was making a change at QB and RB. Both moves have been improvements but the play calling has been subpar.
I thought I recalled there were meetings, but like you said, there were a couple of personnel adjustments and little else. I blame LaFleur for garbage playcalling, but it's Saleh's job to pull him aside and tell him to change what he's doing.
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2022, 02:03:52 PM
FWIW Rex threw Schotty under the bus after 3 years with him. But he kind of inherited him as OC, he wasn't brought with him the way Saleh did MLF. So I'm not sure we can expect him to sacrifice his buddy.
If we go from 7-4 to missing the playoffs, and you tack on the fact that he developed Zach into a turnip....that's not a glowing resume. A change could happen.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2022, 02:06:01 PM
FWIW Rex threw Schotty under the bus after 3 years with him. But he kind of inherited him as OC, he wasn't brought with him the way Saleh did MLF. So I'm not sure we can expect him to sacrifice his buddy.
That's all fair. And I'm not even advocating firing MLF. I just think Saleh needs to explain that the playcalling needs to change significantly. He's watching the same film we're seeing. If he can't point out the problems to LaFleur, then that's its own problem.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 13, 2022, 02:06:24 PM
As for the Rex comparison, I really hope he makes better choices among his offensive assistants if he does decide to make a change at OC.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 12:11:37 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 29, 2022, 12:43:16 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 06:01:50 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 01, 2023, 06:03:03 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 01, 2023, 06:03:06 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 06:04:01 PM
If Saleh doesn't light this lover of the older lady up on Black Monday...JD or Woody will.
He should be replaced tomorrow
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 06:04:19 PM
If we go from 7-4 to missing the playoffs, and you tack on the fact that he developed Zach into a turnip....that's not a glowing resume. A change could happen.
bump
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 06:05:12 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 01, 2023, 06:06:51 PM
where is Puck and DCM with their "hurr durr it's all Zach's fault" rhetoric? I need to complete my Sunday afternoon.It's both.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 06:08:21 PM
It's both.It's always been both. I still think bad QB play is probably the biggest culprit. White and Wilson can't make simple throws.
But the results are the results. It's not working. We finally played some bad defenses down the stretch, and we couldn't do anything. That falls on everyone, with LaFleur at the top.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 01, 2023, 06:10:11 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 06:23:37 PM
It's always been both. I still think bad QB play is probably the biggest culprit. White and Wilson can't make simple throws.
But the results are the results. It's not working. We finally played some bad defenses down the stretch, and we couldn't do anything. That falls on everyone, with LaFleur at the top.
You’ve said this a few times today, but there aren’t a lot of simple throws in our offensive scheme
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 06:26:12 PM
You’ve said this a few times today, but there aren’t a lot of simple throws in our offensive schemeThat might be true, but he was painfully inaccurate on a ton of short passes. Just like Zach.
But either way, I don't think there's a good reason to bring back LaFleur anymore.
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2023, 06:27:13 PM
It's always been both. I still think bad QB play is probably the biggest culprit. White and Wilson can't make simple throws.
They could though... until they couldn't. So eyeing the coaches for this is reasonable. Why are QBs getting worse under your watch?
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2023, 06:27:59 PM
Ultimately, does anyone think we will regret dumping Lafleur? Is he gonna be some genius HC someday that we slap ourselves that we missed out on? No.For every Pete Carroll there are 15 guys who prove us right for dumping them.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 06:29:01 PM
Well, one of the reasons I defended LaFleur was that when other quarterbacks played, the offense was better. Hard to say that now.
They could though... until they couldn't. So eyeing the coaches for this is reasonable. Why are QBs getting worse under your watch?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 06:31:51 PM
Most empty set calls in the league by far and haven’t scored a single touchdown from an empty set.
Damning lack of production…
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 01, 2023, 06:34:03 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 06:34:57 PM
I’m a fan. Is it too early to talk extension? Clearly a marginal upgrade from Dowell
maybe after JD gets his lifetime contract........maybe.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 06:36:04 PM
Breece Hall in Week 6.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 06:37:06 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 06:38:00 PM
Derek Smalls was 100% wrong on this guy...we can probably lock this thread nowZach Wilson and Mike LaFleur both suck.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 06:39:10 PM
Zach Wilson and Mike LaFleur both suck.
It's about time your light bulb came on.
hope you learned something.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 01, 2023, 06:39:19 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 01, 2023, 06:39:42 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 06:39:58 PM
Now I do believe he’ll be gone. Today was completely inexcusable.
What about the other 4 games where we didn't score a TD?
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 06:40:04 PM
Any decent replacement candidates?
yes
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 06:41:04 PM
Any decent replacement candidates?Yes, and we will immediately turn on them.
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 06:41:20 PM
Any decent replacement candidates?Any poster here regardless of how we feel about eachother
A warm body
The kid who designed the annexation of Puerto Rico in little giants
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 06:43:07 PM
Yes, and we will immediately turn on them.
don't worry man, i'll let you know when we hire a good one. I got you.
I'll teach you more than Seth Walder ever could.
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2023, 06:49:29 PM
Any decent replacement candidates?Bring back Jeremy Bates. Best OC we've had since the Darnold era.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 01, 2023, 09:18:37 PM
He should be replaced tomorrow
This
I don't care if they let Flacco call plays next week. Anyone but MLF.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 01, 2023, 09:26:39 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 01, 2023, 09:29:02 PM
Can we finally change this thread title to OC: Mike LolFleur
Soon to be former OC: Mike LolFleur
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 09:40:02 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 10:02:54 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 10:07:38 PM
I'd rather have Peter LaFleur from Dodgeball"NOBODY MAKES ME BLEED MY OWN BLOOD!!"
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 10:35:46 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 10:36:39 PM
Not sure Saleh will be cool with Reich because he’ll have to watch his backI dont think Saleh has a leg to stand on here.
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 10:37:44 PM
Not sure Saleh will be cool with Reich because he’ll have to watch his backWould reich even want to come here?
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 10:38:20 PM
Would reich even want to come here?He has ties to Joe Douglas...and the jets franchise
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 10:38:54 PM
I dont think Saleh has a leg to stand on here.Yeah I mean he had his choice of staff and well we've seen it now
He doesn't get to decide that. And if he wants to stick his nose up at it he can go be Campbell's DC and bite kneecaps in his hometown for alm I care
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 10:39:15 PM
He has ties to Joe Douglas...and the jets franchiseI mean I know people that are plumbers but I don't want to smell excrement all day
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 10:40:22 PM
I mean I know people that are plumbers but I don't want to smell excrement all dayUmm..ok?
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 10:41:47 PM
Umm..ok?Its a joke about this ownership and front office being a revolving door of suck
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 10:43:38 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 10:45:33 PM
Recipe for disaster if you force an assistant onto a head coachI agree here
I'm more curious who in the freak would Saleh target
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 10:45:46 PM
Its a joke about this ownership and front office being a revolving door of suckIf Skyler Thompson blows us out next week..woody's bloodlust will not be quenched
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 10:46:58 PM
If Skyler Thompson blows us out next week..woody's bloodlust will not be quenchedI think we lose. But blowout nah . Either way I won't be there and I'm excited to not go
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 10:47:30 PM
Recipe for disaster if you force an assistant onto a head coachAgreed. Everyone ripped the Jets for forcing assistants on Matt Rhule (lol). Can't do that. But hard to bring back the status quo again.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 10:49:06 PM
I think we lose. But blowout nah . Either way I won't be there and I'm excited to not goGive us the play by play from the stands
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 10:50:33 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 10:51:29 PM
Give us the play by play from the standsI'll be busy hitting up dispensaries and eating good food
Much better than tbe possibility of being in a sea of thousands of Miami fans celebrating their playoff berth as I watch a qb who won't be on the roster next yr flounder around with a headset funneling calls from the mongoloid inferior sperm shot of Green Bays HC
Post by: dcm1602 on January 01, 2023, 10:52:14 PM
Know nothing about them, although there's another 49ers connection on the list who also happens to be a NJ native.
Offensive Coordinators
Brian Johnson, Philadelphia Eagles quarterbacks coach
Joe Brady, Buffalo Bills quarterbacks coach
Ben Bloom, Cleveland Browns run game coordinator
Brian Hartline, Ohio State passing game coordinator
Alex Golesh, Tennessee offensive coordinator
Stump Mitchell, Cleveland Browns run game coordinator
Jerrod Johnson, Minnesota Vikings assistant quarterbacks coach
Marcus Brady, former Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator
Pep Hamilton, Houston Texans offensive coordinator
Matt Weiss, Michigan Wolverines co-offensive coordinator
Kliff Kingsbury, Arizona Cardinals head coach
Nathaniel Hackett, former Denver Broncos head coach
Thomas Brown Jr., Los Angeles Rams assistant head coach
Bobby Slowik, San Francisco 49ers offensive passing game coordinator
Post by: Jumbo on January 01, 2023, 11:25:47 PM
Here's a list of potential OC candidates that I was able to find on the internet
Know nothing about them, although there's another 49ers connection on the list who also happens to be a NJ native.
Offensive Coordinators
Brian Johnson, Philadelphia Eagles quarterbacks coach
Joe Brady, Buffalo Bills quarterbacks coach
Ben Bloom, Cleveland Browns run game coordinator
Brian Hartline, Ohio State passing game coordinator
Alex Golesh, Tennessee offensive coordinator
Stump Mitchell, Cleveland Browns run game coordinator
Jerrod Johnson, Minnesota Vikings assistant quarterbacks coach
Marcus Brady, former Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator
Pep Hamilton, Houston Texans offensive coordinator
Matt Weiss, Michigan Wolverines co-offensive coordinator
Kliff Kingsbury, Arizona Cardinals head coach
Nathaniel Hackett, former Denver Broncos head coach
Thomas Brown Jr., Los Angeles Rams assistant head coach
Bobby Slowik, San Francisco 49ers offensive passing game coordinator
Personally I think the best idea is to hire the 49ers passing game coordinator. Can't see a way that goes wrong
Post by: Jumbo on January 01, 2023, 11:26:23 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 11:28:32 PM
I hope we hire Kingsbury because it would be funnySaleh goes full heel and introduces him 80s wrestling promo style
Post by: Libero_2 on January 02, 2023, 07:04:12 AM
Would reich even want to come here?
Ignoring the later replies to honestly answer the question…
No I don’t think so. Why would he? Reich is going to have his pick of jobs. What do we have that should excite a top candidate with options?
Qb? - Nope, as far from competent play as possible this year.
RB? - Stud, but he tore his ACL
WR? - Garret Wilson is that dude. Questions everywhere else in that room
TE? - Servicable but not special
OL? - Complete shambles, could easily see 4 new starters next year. And our Stud lineman also had season ending surgery this year.
Why on earth would Reich look at our roster and production and say “yeah I’d rather go there, than Green Bay, or Dallas, or LAC or TB or basically anywhere else”
Post by: MBGreen on January 02, 2023, 08:22:12 AM
tearing up playsheets eh.....goodbye Mike Lafleur.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2023, 08:31:32 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 02, 2023, 08:32:24 AM
That's a comment about Mike White?
MLF's playsheets getting tore up was the star of that tweet.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2023, 08:36:00 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 02, 2023, 08:40:46 AM
Sure
(https://i0.wp.com/pbs.twimg.com/media/DhWPiHHW4AEgyD2.jpg?ssl=1&w=640&zoom=1&crop=0,0,640px,360px)
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2023, 08:55:51 AM
LaFleur shouldn't be calling plays next week. Give the job to Middleton to see what he can do.
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2023, 08:59:09 AM
Whatever.
LaFleur shouldn't be calling plays next week. Give the job to Middleton to see what he can do.
I'm not sure what purpose that serves.
Post by: MBGreen on January 02, 2023, 09:00:51 AM
Whatever.
LaFleur shouldn't be calling plays next week. Give the job to Middleton to see what he can do.
Middleton sucks too.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2023, 09:04:17 AM
I'm not sure what purpose that serves.
Prevents LaFleur from calling the game.
Gives another coach possible exposure.
Post by: MBGreen on January 02, 2023, 09:11:15 AM
Prevents LaFleur from calling the game.
Gives another coach possible exposure.
the only way this happens is if MLF gets let go this week...which i don't see happening.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2023, 12:04:38 PM
Saleh continuing to stick by what doesn't work could cost him his job if the Miami game goes poorly enough. And it if it goes poorly enough for Saleh to lose his job then I really wouldn't question it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 12:09:44 PM
Probably not but it's a message board so freak it.Saleh is kind of where I was after Year 1 of Gase.
Saleh continuing to stick by what doesn't work could cost him his job if the Miami game goes poorly enough. And it if it goes poorly enough for Saleh to lose his job then I really wouldn't question it.
I don't think he deserves to be fired, but I'm not sold on him being an answer, and if we fire him, I wouldn't be upset. I'm higher on Saleh Year 2 than Gase Year 1, but I'm pretty indifferent on Saleh.
Anytime any coach finishes a season 0-6, you can make a case for him to be gone.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 02, 2023, 01:30:17 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2023, 08:57:41 PM
Saleh is kind of where I was after Year 1 of Gase.
I don't think he deserves to be fired, but I'm not sold on him being an answer, and if we fire him, I wouldn't be upset. I'm higher on Saleh Year 2 than Gase Year 1, but I'm pretty indifferent on Saleh.
Anytime any coach finishes a season 0-6, you can make a case for him to be gone.
It's a very weird place to be in because the defense made a huge leap while the offense was at best stagnant. So he has something to point at as a success but if he continues to look clueless on the offensive side of the ball it's going to look terrible.
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2023, 10:57:22 PM
Post by: IATA on January 02, 2023, 11:46:09 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on January 03, 2023, 01:00:53 AM
who does peyton manning thing we should hire?
Hahahahahahahaha
Everyone of larger consequence is coming back under the edict of "playoffs or bust." I've already reconciled myself to this fact, and look forward to discussing possible position coaches in the offseason before the eventual pining over a free agent and rationalizing a lesser option they have to pivot towards.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 09:39:36 AM
I still want to fire LaFleur.
Never Forget
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 09:52:52 AM
Ulbrich has to be the first to go.
This is my 9/11
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 09:57:24 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 09:59:12 AM
#FireSaleh
Lol I concede
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 10:11:26 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 10:13:02 AM
I'm not on the Fire Saleh boat yet. Firing the HC every few years leads us to purgatory. Essentially where we've lived for the last 10 years. I'm fine with getting tough on him, giving him an ultimatum and tough deadlines but just short of canning his derriere.
I don't actually want to fire Saleh unless he decides to keep his staff entirely the same.
I'm not a big fan of how he's handled the collapse. I get we have injuries, but he's trying to spin it as a positive and that's bullshit.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 10:14:58 AM
I don't actually want to fire Saleh unless he decides to keep his staff entirely the same.
I'm not a big fan of how he's handled the collapse. I get we have injuries, but he's trying to spin it as a positive and that's bullshit.
I agree with that. Real changes need to be implemented. I also can't stand the "coach speak" bullshit a lot of these coaches adopt. I hate to say it but I kinda like Mike McDaniel's approach to the media.
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 10:22:33 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 10:26:43 AM
I only want Saleh gone if he refuses to make any staff changes.
Saleh will fire himself but leave everyone else in place. Dowell interim HC.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 10:28:07 AM
Saleh will fire himself but leave everyone else in place. Dowell interim HC.
I... I think that's called a resignation. Let me check Belichick's cocktail napkin.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 10:32:03 AM
Dowell interim HC.
I sent him to South Carolina to ruin Spencer Rattler's life
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 10:33:15 AM
I hate to say it but I kinda like Mike McDaniel's approach to the media.
No, freak that geek.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 10:49:48 AM
I’m fine with coachspeak
Post by: Coach K on January 03, 2023, 10:50:05 AM
We seem to be in a never ending cycle of guys who can't call games. They might design exceedingly clever plays and when they work they look ace, but if you can't read a defense and understand what they're giving you and where the soft spots are, it doesn't really matter.Bingo
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 10:51:10 AM
https://twitter.com/outsidersports/status/1608163243935109120?s=46&t=A-gabdbt5HSEPh6VBz7G4w
I’m fine with coachspeak
lol he was asked a direct question about cheese. It's not unreasonable for his response to also be about cheese.
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 10:52:07 AM
I only want Saleh gone if he refuses to make any staff changes.At this point that's my primary issue with Saleh. It doesn't seem like he ordered any changes with the offense during the season at all besides benching Zach. So I'm not optimistic about how willing he is to fire guys if he didn't even want to mix up the playcalling responsibilities.
In 2021 the only change I remember was MLF going from sideline to booth.
Post by: Johnny English on January 03, 2023, 10:55:23 AM
At this point that's my primary issue with Saleh. It doesn't seem like he ordered any changes with the offense during the season at all besides benching Zach. So I'm not optimistic about how willing he is to fire guys if he didn't even want to mix up the playcalling responsibilities.
In 2021 the only change I remember was MLF going from sideline to booth.
I've asked it before, but I'll ask it again - who on the staff would you have given the playcalling responsibilities to midway through the season? There's no one on staff who has ever done it before, so which of the complete greenhorns would you have entrusted it to?
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 10:56:58 AM
I've asked it before, but I'll ask it again - who on the staff would you have given the playcalling responsibilities to midway through the season? There's no one on staff who has ever done it before, so which of the complete greenhorns would you have entrusted it to?1. Anyone
2. The fact that nobody on staff has playcalling experience is kinda part of the problem
Post by: Johnny English on January 03, 2023, 10:59:59 AM
1. Anyone
2. The fact that nobody on staff has playcalling experience is kinda part of the problem
1. Except it almost certainly wouldn't have fixed anything at all and now you've created a deeper constitutional crisis as well as created another person on staff for the fans to hate.
2. No it isn't, it's the entire problem. As already discussed ad nauseam, the entire staff is woefully inexperienced and they didn't replace the dead guy who was supposed to be the fix for that.
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 11:03:02 AM
Not replacing Knapp while rolling with Calabrese was beyond retarded and certainly doesn't help Saleh's argument to keep his offensive staff intact.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 11:03:50 AM
1. Except it almost certainly wouldn't have fixed anything at all and now you've created a deeper constitutional crisis as well as created another person on staff for the fans to hate.
2. No it isn't, it's the entire problem. As already discussed ad nauseam, the entire staff is woefully inexperienced and they didn't replace the dead guy who was supposed to be the fix for that.
- Who gives a excrement who the fans like or don't like. Since it didn't happen it is equally acceptable that it would have fixed that problem as it is that it wouldn't. You saying it wouldn't on a message board does not make it fact.
- Agreed with this take. The fact everyone is green is a serious issue. There should have been a mandate for at least one experienced playcaller in the building to help coach the rookie up.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 11:10:56 AM
At this point that's my primary issue with Saleh. It doesn't seem like he ordered any changes with the offense during the season at all besides benching Zach. So I'm not optimistic about how willing he is to fire guys if he didn't even want to mix up the playcalling responsibilities.
In 2021 the only change I remember was MLF going from sideline to booth.
He benched Zach Wilson and James Robinson. That's really it.
Post by: Johnny English on January 03, 2023, 11:13:18 AM
Who gives a excrement who the fans like or don't like. Since it didn't happen it is equally acceptable that it would have fixed that problem as it is that it wouldn't. You saying it wouldn't on a message board does not make it fact.
Woody Johnson cares what the fans think, and if Woody cares then that means that the front office and coaching staff care. But you're missing my point, which is that we can be a pretty freaking toxic bunch at the best of times and the potential benefit of throwing another greenhorn to the mercy of the baying hordes in case there's somehow some magic ingredient that just needed 80,000 booing drunks to be unveiled is outweighed fairly significantly by the overwhelming likelihood that there isn't.
Management at top levels isn't done by panic moves in the desperate hope of unlikely outcomes, and you know this better than most. Sorry to have to break it to you, but MLF is the most experienced playcaller on the staff and the unpleasant likelihood is that he's probably the best at it.
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 11:14:26 AM
Woody Johnson cares what the fans think, and if Woody cares then that means that the front office and coaching staff care. But you're missing my point, which is that we can be a pretty freaking toxic bunch at the best of times and the potential benefit of throwing another greenhorn to the mercy of the baying hordes in case there's somehow some magic ingredient that just needed 80,000 booing drunks to be unveiled is outweighed fairly significantly by the overwhelming likelihood that there isn't.
Management at top levels isn't done by panic moves in the desperate hope of unlikely outcomes, and you know this better than most. Sorry to have to break it to you, but MLF is the most experienced playcaller on the staff and the unpleasant likelihood is that he's probably the best at it.
i do like the term "greenhorn"...good work.
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 11:14:34 AM
He benched Zach Wilson and James Robinson. That's really it.Hold on, we forgot Elijah Moore too.
Zero changes to the offensive system/methods.
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 11:15:45 AM
Who gives a excrement who the fans like or don't like. Since it didn't happen it is equally acceptable that it would have fixed that problem as it is that it wouldn't. You saying it wouldn't on a message board does not make it fact.
We had to let MLF keep dragging his derriere on the carpet all season because someone might have booed Ron Middleton.
Post by: Johnny English on January 03, 2023, 11:16:29 AM
We had to let MLF keep dragging his derriere on the carpet all season because someone might have booed Ron Middleton.
Yeah.... you've got a case of Backup QB Syndrome going on here.
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 11:17:05 AM
We had to let MLF keep dragging his derriere on the carpet all season because someone might have booed Ron Middleton.
I'm so happy Zach had so many "greenhorns" to learn from this year. He's got a bright future in NY.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 11:19:28 AM
Woody Johnson cares what the fans think, and if Woody cares then that means that the front office and coaching staff care. But you're missing my point, which is that we can be a pretty freaking toxic bunch at the best of times and the potential benefit of throwing another greenhorn to the mercy of the baying hordes in case there's somehow some magic ingredient that just needed 80,000 booing drunks to be unveiled is outweighed fairly significantly by the overwhelming likelihood that there isn't.
Management at top levels isn't done by panic moves in the desperate hope of unlikely outcomes, and you know this better than most. Sorry to have to break it to you, but MLF is the most experienced playcaller on the staff and the unpleasant likelihood is that he's probably the best at it.
If the ownership is scared to make changes because some drunk poopchute may get upset then we have systematic issues that will never be fixed.
I figured there's a metric excrement ton of choices, discussions, and debates that happen in that building and we'll never know about. Therefore, it's possible that Saleh did attempt to address the playcalling during the season and it didn't make a difference.
However, what is completely evident is it ain't working and serious changes need to occur. If we go into next year with the same woes then fuckin clean house.
Post by: Johnny English on January 03, 2023, 11:24:20 AM
If the ownership is scared to make changes because some drunk poopchute may get upset then we have systematic issues that will never be fixed.
I figured there's a metric excrement ton of choices, discussions, and debates that happen in that building and we'll never know about. Therefore, it's possible that Saleh did attempt to address the playcalling during the season and it didn't make a difference.
However, what is completely evident is it ain't working and serious changes need to occur. If we go into next year with the same woes then fuckin clean house.
Again you miss the point. It's not "scared to make changes", it's that it's overwhelmingly unlikely that Middleton or anyone else would have been any better, and you cause more problems than you fix by undermining the hierarchy of the team midway through the season for no actual gameday benefit.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 11:24:53 AM
No, I’m not surprised they didn’t take away playcalling from him with playoffs on the line. There’s no a real answer here that anyone has that gave them a better shot to win
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 11:26:59 AM
Again you miss the point. It's not "scared to make changes", it's that it's overwhelmingly unlikely that Middleton or anyone else would have been any better, and you cause more problems than you fix by undermining the hierarchy of the team midway through the season for no actual gameday benefit.
Or your sending a message that mediocrity and failure will not stand. If you don't execute you get replaced. If it's coming from above, then it's not underminding the hierarchy, it's holding people accountable.
Also, my failure to get the point may have more to do with your inability to articulate the message.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 11:29:38 AM
Or your sending a message that mediocrity and failure will not stand. If you don't execute you get replaced. If it's coming from above, then it's not underminding the hierarchy, it's holding people accountable.
Also, my failure to get the point may have more to do with your inability to articulate the message.
Send that message to who exactly? The other coaches? Kinda irrelevant when the main issue is supposedly the guy you’re replacing
That message was sent to the players when Zach was benched.
It’s certainly not for the fans as you stated above
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 11:31:44 AM
Send that message to who exactly? The other coaches? Kinda irrelevant when the main issue is supposedly the guy you’re replacing
That message was sent to the players when Zach was benched.
It’s certainly not for the fans as you stated above
When did I state it was for the fans? It's for the organization as a whole. Furthermore, it's a hypothetical and my point is that his take on "undermining the hierarchy" can be interpreted in another fashion.
I don't see how leadership replacing someone who is ineffective is undermining anything. It's literally leadership's job.
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 11:34:20 AM
Send that message to who exactly? The other coaches? Kinda irrelevant when the main issue is supposedly the guy you’re replacing
That message was sent to the players when Zach was benched.
And only the players - as far as we can tell no additional pressure was put on any coaches.
Post by: Johnny English on January 03, 2023, 11:35:07 AM
When did I state it was for the fans? It's for the organization as a whole. Furthermore, it's a hypothetical and my point is that his take on "undermining the hierarchy" can be interpreted in another fashion.
I don't see how leadership replacing someone who is ineffective is undermining anything. It's literally leadership's job.
Yes, but if you don't have the appropriate skills and talent in house to replace the failing individual, then you don't just promote someone who you know is almost certainly also going to fail. You have to replace from outside, something which is all but impossible to do mid season.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 11:37:33 AM
Yes, but if you don't have the appropriate skills and talent in house to replace the failing individual, then you don't just promote someone who you know is almost certainly also going to fail. You have to replace from outside, something which is all but impossible to do mid season.
This I agree with and why I'm not as critical of the decision. We don't know what internal discussions were had and whether there is anyone better to call plays within the org. Now that the season is effectively over, changes MUST be made. Someone with experience should be brought in and MLF needs to be put on notice, if not outright replaced.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 11:58:08 AM
How can we possibly know that? Outside of changing the playcaller or firing someone, there isn't any way we would know. I know you said "as far as we can tell," but we can't really tell.
And only the players - as far as we can tell no additional pressure was put on any coaches.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 12:02:15 PM
How can we possibly know that? Outside of changing the playcaller or firing someone, there isn't any way we would know. I know you said "as far as we can tell," but we can't really tell.
That's basically where I land, we don't actually know excrement but can speculate all day.
I would say holding everyone equally accountable for failures is the way to go. We bench Wilson because he was terrible, we could have replaced MLF for the same failures. To JE's point, we don't have a bench OC that we could have plugged in.
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 12:06:54 PM
How can we possibly know that? Outside of changing the playcaller or firing someone, there isn't any way we would know. I know you said "as far as we can tell," but we can't really tell.
I'm 25% sure we can't tell.
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 12:10:52 PM
Wayne Chrebet knows the score...
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 12:14:44 PM
https://twitter.com/Bklyn929/status/1610326967148216320?s=20&t=QgR1Ss591-qyWu1xthc8VA
Wayne Chrebet knows the score...
Wow, in my memory Chrebet has always been positive and vanilla when it comes to criticism. Am I mistaken?
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 12:16:41 PM
Wow, in my memory Chrebet has always been positive and vanilla when it comes to criticism. Am I mistaken?
I don't remember him calling for anyone to be fired in the past.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 12:21:45 PM
I don't remember him calling for anyone to be fired in the past.
Damn so he was pro-Gase? He just lost my vote of confidence
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 12:23:41 PM
Damn so he was pro-Gase? He just lost my vote of confidence
you'll have to ask him.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 03, 2023, 12:51:12 PM
So I imagine he’s never had a public platform like he has now to ever make statements like that make noise.
But he and Coles are former NFL WRs who would know good coaching and bad (they certainly had their share as Jets players). I’m inclined to trust their opinions, when we watch our offense get progressively worse each week.
If he stays, which I expect, I will continue to bang the drum for nearly all of our major assets be spent acquiring talented playmakers and protectors for whichever vet QB we bring in. If we have a top 5 playmaker room next year, and an improved OL with hopefully a better coach teaching run game concepts, I see no reason a QB shouldn’t be solid, even with MLF learning on the job.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 03, 2023, 12:57:17 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 03, 2023, 01:38:56 PM
If he stays, which I expect, I will continue to bang the drum for nearly all of our major assets be spent acquiring talented playmakers and protectors for whichever vet QB we bring in. If we have a top 5 playmaker room next year, and an improved OL with hopefully a better coach teaching run game concepts, I see no reason a QB shouldn’t be solid, even with MLF learning on the job.
I think that the other big thing about a vet QB is that it will massively help MLF (assuming he is still calling the plays) to have a QB who can be trusted to read the field, provide feedback as to what the defense is doing, and to audible at the line when necessary and/or appropriate. I'm pretty sure that Zach and White are of little use in those respects.
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 03:09:07 PM
How can we possibly know that? Outside of changing the playcaller or firing someone, there isn't any way we would know. I know you said "as far as we can tell," but we can't really tell.I guess the beat really is useless besides asking for apologies, and fueling trade requests.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 03:11:08 PM
I guess the beat really is useless besides asking for apologies, and fueling trade requests.
I've reached out to Badger on twitter for an apology to the rest of the forum. Will update when he responds.
Post by: Badger on January 04, 2023, 02:31:39 PM
"Let’s not learn the wrong lesson from MiLF. Rookie hires aren’t always terrible, and nepotism hires also aren’t always terrible - but rookie nepotism hires do seem to be pretty terrible."
Post by: Jumbo on January 04, 2023, 03:28:50 PM
Stolen from reddit,
"Let’s not learn the wrong lesson from MiLF. Rookie hires aren’t always terrible, and nepotism hires also aren’t always terrible - but rookie nepotism hires do seem to be pretty terrible."
Guys like McVay and Vrabel were pretty good as rookie nepotism hires
Post by: Heismanberg on January 04, 2023, 03:40:50 PM
Guys like McVay and Vrabel were pretty good as rookie nepotism hires
Sean McVay called plays before he became a head coach.
Mike Vrabel played for a long time and was one of the best position coaches and coordinators in college football before he came to the NFL.
Mike LaFleur never played and he never called plays.
Post by: reuben on January 04, 2023, 03:41:38 PM
Guys like McVay and Vrabel were pretty good as rookie nepotism hires
How were those nepotism hires?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 04, 2023, 03:42:51 PM
How were those nepotism hires?
Sean McVay's grandpa was a coach and a GM in the NFL for a long time
Post by: reuben on January 04, 2023, 03:54:59 PM
Sean McVay's grandpa was a coach and a GM in the NFL for a long time
TIL
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 08:25:32 AM
decent summation to get rid of MLF asap.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 05, 2023, 08:49:51 AM
https://jetsxfactor.com/2023/01/05/argument-jets-move-on-mike-lafleur/
decent summation to get rid of MLF asap.
Good read. He sucks.
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 09:16:20 AM
Good read. He sucks.
it's bad enough our offense is predictable....but then no adjustments are made. At least he's living up to the standard of our previous Offensive Coordinators.
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 10:45:12 AM
"This guy is doing a good job"
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 10:47:53 AM
His "quick" game is basically just a mix of sit and option routes and that puts stress on the WRs and the QB. Nothing is easy in this offense and that's crippling for a developing QB.
Joe Flacco has been in the league for about 15 years and he struggled to get the ball out quickly in this scheme too.
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 10:55:51 AM
He's paid to design/call offensive game plans, evaluate his players and develop them. He's failed on all of this.
The fact that he's saying "Well guys, maybe Zach should've sat the first year" should be indicative enough for a pink slip.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 11:00:49 AM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1611030782801285120?t=8HkmCqwopEDBEyi-ZseiWg&s=19
"This guy is doing a good job"
LMAO what
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 11:02:56 AM
Get him outta here, Woody
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 11:04:23 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
34m
LaFleur was asked why he's the right man for the job. He "respectfully" declined to advocate for himself, saying, "My words don't matter." Says he gives everything he's got to the organization: "If that's not good enough, so be it...We're gonna continue to grind..."
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
35m
..."until they don't allow us to grind anymore." Some fans might not like his playcalling, but he always takes accountability and doesn't make excuses. Stand-up coach. #Jets
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 11:04:54 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 11:05:00 AM
good lord
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 11:08:21 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 11:18:08 AM
Post by: reuben on January 05, 2023, 11:18:19 AM
Quote
Jets offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur said James Robinson is a "big part" of the team's plans in 2023.
We'll see about that. LaFleur suggests that Robinson's torn Achilles suffered at the end of the 2021 season may have played a role in him being a healthy scratch for the last month of the season. He also added that Robinson's injury "takes a lot of time and rehab" to recover from, but at times, Robinson looked rather impressive for a player just months removed from a torn Achilles. Still, there's merit to what LaFleur said, and it wouldn't be surprising to see Robinson more involved in 2023. Of course, rookie running back Breece Hall (knee) should be back in the fold, and it will be hard to forget what Zonovan Knight showed at various points during his rookie season. The Jets traded a late-round pick to the Jaguars to acquire Robinson earlier this season. With so little invested in him, the team is unlikely to feel obligated to force him into a role if they prefer other players on the roster.
How the freak would you know, Mike?
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 11:20:00 AM
He really sounds like someone that's expecting to be fired
i just watched his presser....i think he's done.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 11:20:21 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 11:29:10 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
1h
LaFleur on 4 TDs over the last 5 games: "Disappointing on many levels." Takes full responsibility. "Gotta look inward...we gotta get things fixed." #Jets
rinse and repeat
Post by: Jumbo on January 05, 2023, 11:57:08 AM
Quote
LaFleur says in hindsight Zach Wilson should have sat as a rookie.
LaFleur must apologize to the board for this
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 11:58:35 AM
RIP
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 12:01:39 PM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1611030782801285120
LaFleur must apologize to the board for this
He can apologize to the unemployment office
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:17:43 PM
Pointing the finger at the front office
RIP
Does anyone disagree with what he said? I don’t think it’s a shot at the FO - I’m sure the collective plan between JD/Saleh/MLF was to have Wilson start from day one. Clearly they overestimated him.
Wilson/Flacco as the 1/2 was poor roster planning, and not in hindsight.
Either Wilson was ready to start in JD’s eyes, or we needed a real 2nd QB in house for competition and to start in the scenario that Zach wasn’t ready.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:19:35 PM
If he wasn’t ready to start in year 1, was he also not ready to start in year 2? Lol
Post by: bojanglesman on January 05, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1611039318956544000?s=20&t=rF7W1xOKEc2DxS8ejw57nw
Get him outta here, Woody
Not sure how you can answer that question at all. I mean, freak the guy, but not because of that.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2023, 01:28:33 PM
Not sure how you can answer that question at all. I mean, freak the guy, but not because of that.The offense has not been good this year and the QB has been a bust. If you're completely out on LaFleur, there is nothing he can say to change your mind.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 05, 2023, 01:33:19 PM
The offense has not been good this year and the QB has been a bust. If you're completely out on LaFleur, there is nothing he can say to change your mind.
Exactly. I just don't know what he's supposed to say when asked if he's the right guy for the job. If he lists reasons, he'll get laughed out of the room. If he doesn't, he looks like he's defeated. Basically all he can say is that it isn't his question to answer...to the media.
Post by: insanity on January 05, 2023, 03:45:46 PM
If anything I think he’s just deflecting blame away from ZWThat's a illogical leap. Zach regressed from year 1 to year 2 because of a loss of confidence, and who knows what else.
If he wasn’t ready to start in year 1, was he also not ready to start in year 2? Lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2023, 06:36:32 PM
That's a illogical leap. Zach regressed from year 1 to year 2 because of a loss of confidence, and who knows what else.I don't think he really regressed from Year 1 to Year 2. He was atrocious as a rookie and atrocious as a sophomore.
In fact, he was better statistically this year (better YPA, fewer sacks, better QBR, most other stats about the same).
Post by: Johnny English on January 05, 2023, 06:40:56 PM
I don't think he really regressed from Year 1 to Year 2. He was atrocious as a rookie and atrocious as a sophomore.
In fact, he was better statistically this year (better YPA, fewer sacks, better QBR, most other stats about the same).
I dunno, statistically he might have improved but I feel like he left a lot more yards and points on the field this year. I accept that that might be recency bias, and I might have been more forgiving last season as he was a rookie, but I don't remember being anything like as frustrated in 2021 as I was in both Patriots games this year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2023, 07:02:31 PM
I dunno, statistically he might have improved but I feel like he left a lot more yards and points on the field this year. I accept that that might be recency bias, and I might have been more forgiving last season as he was a rookie, but I don't remember being anything like as frustrated in 2021 as I was in both Patriots games this year.I think it is the fact that we had expectations this year we did not have last year. Both as a team and for Zach.
Supporting cast was better this year, so maybe that helps the better stats.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 05, 2023, 07:44:13 PM
Ultimately his completion % is comparable this year to last because he's had such low volume this year so high volume games carry more weight
But in 5 of 9 games this year his completion percentage was under 52%
Last year it was twice the entire season
He's just more consistently having these absurdly shitty games where he was able to completely take over a game in a very negative way
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:04:40 PM
The long developing routes are what I've hated since Week 1 of 2021.I've been able to predict our run pass pre snap like 80% of the time and I don't get paid to watch film to shut this offense down . All we need to know
His "quick" game is basically just a mix of sit and option routes and that puts stress on the WRs and the QB. Nothing is easy in this offense and that's crippling for a developing QB.
Joe Flacco has been in the league for about 15 years and he struggled to get the ball out quickly in this scheme too.
Furthermore he overcomplicates passing concepts and over simplifies running concepts
It's a literal masterclass in mediocrity . There's a handful of plays that are clearly well schemed. But it doesn't matter if it can't be executed given the personnel
Another criticism completely not adapting to the players you're fielding
I've been a broken record on the lack of lead back in run concepts. The list goes on
Is the bigger problem benton and Calabrese and inept QBs and OL?
Possibly
Most of this falls on Saleh . I'd tell LaFleur to eat a dick if he doesn't like me assigning an extra voice and caller in the room with actual experience
He sat on his hands and handed the keys to offense to LaFleur and Calabrese
We all know any legitimate experience at passing development died with Greg Knapp
Beck was a band aid. Then it was compounded with more of nothing .
Whatever idc let's see what happens
Pointless to foam at the mouth until offseason is done .
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2023, 08:11:12 PM
I've been able to predict our run pass pre snap like 80% of the time and I don't get paid to watch film to shut this offense down . All we need to knowMike LaFleur. A masterclass in mediocrity.
Furthermore he overcomplicates passing concepts and over simplifies running concepts
It's a literal masterclass in mediocrity . There's a handful of plays that are clearly well schemed. But it doesn't matter if it can't be executed given the personnel
Another criticism completely not adapting to the players you're fielding
I've been a broken record on the lack of lead back in run concepts. The list goes on
Is the bigger problem benton and Calabrese and inept QBs and OL?
Possibly
Most of this falls on Saleh . I'd tell LaFleur to eat a dick if he doesn't like me assigning an extra voice and caller in the room with actual experience
He sat on his hands and handed the keys to offense to LaFleur and Calabrese
We all know any legitimate experience at passing development died with Greg Knapp
Beck was a band aid. Then it was compounded with more of nothing .
Whatever idc let's see what happens
Pointless to foam at the mouth until offseason is done .
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:14:06 PM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1611039318956544000?s=20&t=rF7W1xOKEc2DxS8ejw57nwWow I worked all day . Catching up now . It's one thing for me to disagree or critique him
Get him outta here, Woody
But Jesus this guy lacks a ballsack too?
Even if you're wrong have some conviction
Post by: mj2sexay on January 05, 2023, 08:18:40 PM
This kind of excrement does not happen with a staff that knows how to run an offense. I'm so sick of this excrement.
Every concern I've had about Saleh is coming to pass. And that 9ers defense that was so elite due to Saleh's coaching acumen? How've they done since he left.
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:26:37 PM
The more I heard today the more I want to bring in Harbaugh.I'd bring in any offensive coach worth a excrement. If your defensive coach is just grooming DCs to be poached and can't make a good offensive hire to save his life this is basically what we get unless we draft a QB so good he overcomes bad coaching
This kind of excrement does not happen with a staff that knows how to run an offense. I'm so sick of this excrement.
Every concern I've had about Saleh is coming to pass. And that 9ers defense that was so elite due to Saleh's coaching acumen? How've they done since he left.
And that almost never happens . Not from a draft or actual application perspective lol
We're gonna hear general coach speak and anything other than condemnation of players because they're at least professional in that regard
Those quotes just got me fired up . I'd rather double down and get laughed at for being confident in what I'm building and trying to accomplish then literally tuck my freaking tail between my legs.
Hey I say the same thing when I critique players. I pray I'm wrong and I'll gladly ear crow .
Maybe he just needs a healthy OL and a competent QB . But unless schematic and playcall philosophy changes are made . I don't think that's the case
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:28:20 PM
Point blank period . Now we wait to see what happens in the next 6 weeks
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 08:33:58 PM
We better see some changes next week
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:47:30 PM
6 weeks?I'm referring to seeing what happens with Carr mostly lol
We better see some changes next week
I suggested days ago we can LaFleur and start interviewing during playoffs
And if Saleh refuses to can Lafleur he can leave too ans you go all in on Harbaugh or Payton and give them the Parcells package
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:50:55 PM
Your young qb has happy feet and moves out the pocket too soon
Let's run long routes that are predicated on another WR next to him running the route perfectly to have a throwing window
And I dont say it to relinquish Zach of responsibility
But 1 is a young kid who was a developmental prospect
1 is an adult who gets paid to scheme the offense lol
Even worse it's the same for Flacco or White . Just bad unecesarry scheming
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 06, 2023, 10:37:09 AM
That's a illogical leap. Zach regressed from year 1 to year 2 because of a loss of confidence, and who knows what else.
You’re gonna have to explain that one to me.
He played bad in year 2, because he lost confidence from playing so bad in year 1? He seemed pretty confident this offseason.
He’s been making the same inaccurate throws on basic passes and exhibiting bad decision making skills in the pocket his whole Jets career. Maybe he hasn’t gained any confidence because his play hasn’t improved at all.
I’m also not willing to excuse his inaccuracy, poor footwork, inability to read a defense, inability to go through his progressions, holding onto the ball way too long, shitty throwing mechanics, and awful decision making all on “confidence”. That’s letting him off way too easy.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 06, 2023, 10:42:46 AM
The more I heard today the more I want to bring in Harbaugh.
This kind of excrement does not happen with a staff that knows how to run an offense. I'm so sick of this excrement.
Every concern I've had about Saleh is coming to pass. And that 9ers defense that was so elite due to Saleh's coaching acumen? How've they done since he left.
HC: Cowher
OC: Payton
QB Coach: Harbaugh
DC: Bill Belichick
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2023, 10:47:31 AM
How've they done since he left.
Demeco Ryans played for Saleh and Saleh brought him there to be next man up. It's the same scheme being called by a guy that played in it. I didn't expect them to fall off at all.
The offense was always concerning because MLF (and McDaniel) didn't call plays in SF and Saleh wasn't working with that side of the ball.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2023, 10:47:52 AM
HC: Cowher
OC: Payton
QB Coach: Harbaugh
DC: Bill Belichick
Ron Wolf for GM
Mike Tomlin CB coach
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 06, 2023, 11:19:13 AM
You’re gonna have to explain that one to me.
He played bad in year 2, because he lost confidence from playing so bad in year 1? He seemed pretty confident this offseason.
He’s been making the same inaccurate throws on basic passes and exhibiting bad decision making skills in the pocket his whole Jets career. Maybe he hasn’t gained any confidence because his play hasn’t improved at all.
I’m also not willing to excuse his inaccuracy, poor footwork, inability to read a defense, inability to go through his progressions, holding onto the ball way too long, shitty throwing mechanics, and awful decision making all on “confidence”. That’s letting him off way too easy.
He thinks Zach was making accurate throws as a rookie. There isn’t an answer here for you.
Post by: delavan on January 06, 2023, 02:12:29 PM
Ron Wolf for GM
Mike Tomlin CB coach
Brian Hartline WR coach
Post by: MBGreen on January 06, 2023, 02:14:41 PM
Brian Hartline WR coach
Jovan Belcher - Quality Control coach
Post by: Johnny English on January 06, 2023, 02:16:08 PM
Jovan Belcher - Quality Control coach
Damar Hamlin - Strength and Conditioning Coach
Post by: delavan on January 06, 2023, 02:52:48 PM
Jovan Belcher - Quality Control coach
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35e7yf
Post by: Badger on January 06, 2023, 09:38:34 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230107/5ac0544d67ba51d93868654661170ec6.jpg)
Post by: insanity on January 06, 2023, 11:15:48 PM
He thinks Zach was making accurate throws as a rookie. There isn’t an answer here for you.He was. End of story. In year 1 he had great ball placement.
He made stupid decisions every once and a while but placement in short routes was not an issue
Post by: Libero_2 on January 07, 2023, 12:02:35 AM
It’s not good enough, and he needs to sit his derriere down and be a reclamation project.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 07, 2023, 12:03:01 AM
He was. End of story. In year 1 he had great ball placement.
He made stupid decisions every once and a while but placement in short routes was not an issue
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/508/C7S0ouqVAAANACj.jpg)
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 07, 2023, 11:20:39 PM
one of the things we were all hoping for him after year 1 was 'improve short yardage accuracy and be able to make accurate throws on what should be freebie checkdowns'. anybody nfl-level can do this, mr irrelevant can do it. the #2 pick has had 2 years to work on this and he still can't do it
Post by: insanity on January 08, 2023, 08:22:57 AM
he couldn't hit check downs since day 1 in the nfl lolYour recency bias is showing. That isn't true.
one of the things we were all hoping for him after year 1 was 'improve short yardage accuracy and be able to make accurate throws on what should be freebie checkdowns'. anybody nfl-level can do this, mr irrelevant can do it. the #2 pick has had 2 years to work on this and he still can't do it
YouTube zach wilson vs xxx and watch a few games. Dirting balls and throwing 5 yard misses on short passes started this year. He was mostly accurate with his ball placement.
For the record I'm not saying I think he can turn it around.
Post by: Coach K on January 08, 2023, 08:41:41 AM
Zach wilson regressed but he was seldom accurate . I dontnwant to hear excrement about zip or ball placement. For every great throw hes got 10 bad ones regardless of year or concept
He clearly was only going to succeed with a good staff never in spite of it and with questionable coaching he compounded other issues and made mistakes that are squarely on his shoulders
His mechanics are dogshit and thats on him. End of story. Kids mentally frail. freak him and the whoke state of Utah
Post by: reuben on January 08, 2023, 01:19:01 PM
Your recency bias is showing. That isn't true.
YouTube zach wilson vs xxx and watch a few games. Dirting balls and throwing 5 yard misses on short passes started this year. He was mostly accurate with his ball placement.
For the record I'm not saying I think he can turn it around.
You know, we actually don't need to youtube it because we were all present on this site for every game and our criticism of Zach's first year accuracy is extensively, exhaustively documented. But keep freaking that chicken.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 08, 2023, 03:05:11 PM
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 03:05:32 PM
Flacco (3)
Wilson (2)
White (1)
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 08, 2023, 03:09:28 PM
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 03:15:40 PM
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 03:16:16 PM
If they actually bring this piece of excrement back next year, freak Saleh and the whole orgIf Saleh sticks his neck out for MLF then 2023 has to be playoffs or bust.
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2023, 03:18:47 PM
In all seriousness, if I had any doubt that MLF should be fired, it was removed today.
My view on him is unchanged. I don't care if he is, but I also don't mind if he isn't as long as significant change and upgrade is made on the offensive staff.
The one thing that can not happen is no changes be made under the belief that everyone's going to learn from this season and make everything better next year all on their own.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2023, 03:23:39 PM
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 03:23:59 PM
The one thing that can not happen is no changes be made under the belief that everyone's going to learn from this season and make everything better next year all on their own.
Can't argue with that.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 03:28:37 PM
Jumbo/Smalls won't like it....but I'll be glad to see MLF go.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2023, 03:29:53 PM
He needs to cook a little longer in a lesser role somewhere else. He's still young.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 03:31:18 PM
Hard to justify keeping him or not making significant changes, but I imagine their thought process will be getting an NFL QB will make everyone look better. No matter what they do, they better be right.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 03:35:18 PM
3 straight games without a touchdown also changes the discussion.
Hard to justify keeping him or not making significant changes, but I imagine their thought process will be getting an NFL QB will make everyone look better. No matter what they do, they better be right.
changes the discussion? He wasn't good long before just the last 3 weeks. You just didn't see it.
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2023, 03:38:07 PM
3 straight games without a touchdown also changes the discussion.
Hard to justify keeping him or not making significant changes, but I imagine their thought process will be getting an NFL QB will make everyone look better. No matter what they do, they better be right.
The fear amongst those with the binary obsession over MLF is that Saleh will stick by his boy, but after the way the defense played this year I imagine there are some pretty tough conversations along the lines of "my job is now on the line and it's entirely because of the part of the team that I entrusted you to run". I don't think Saleh's loyalty runs so deep as to blindly stand by Lafleur, so it will be interesting to see what happens.
I never bought the idea of McDaniel being fired after one season even if they'd lost today, but with them in the playoffs that's definitely not happening, so it will be interesting to see who else comes available over the next couple of days. Whether it be a replacement for MLF or support for him, we absolutely must have someone senior on the offensive staff who has experience calling plays.
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 03:38:47 PM
changes the discussion? He wasn't good long before just the last 3 weeks. You just didn't see it.Similar to how the second half of the season vindicated anti-Zach sentiments, the same is true of LaFleur.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 03:40:02 PM
Similar to how the second half of the season vindicated anti-Zach sentiments, the same is true of LaFleur.There were many more reasons to defend LaFleur. Even now, you can blame the bad QB play for a lot of it. But when you're the coach, 3 straight games without a TD ultimately falls on you.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 03:41:04 PM
Similar to how the second half of the season vindicated anti-Zach sentiments, the same is true of LaFleur.
other than Breece Hall, AVT, Garrett Wilson, Quinnen, Sauce and Reed...this season sucked.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2023, 03:43:24 PM
other than Breece Hall, AVT, Garrett Wilson, Quinnen, Sauce and Reed...this season sucked.
No love for Legatron? Canadian Thanos?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2023, 03:46:01 PM
We are going to have a lot of new names next year, why bother keeping Lafleur?
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 03:47:17 PM
No love for Legatron? Canadian Thanos?
Legatron, yes.
lol Shepherd.
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2023, 03:57:52 PM
Post by: delavan on January 08, 2023, 04:53:38 PM
PF:
12
17
3
6
6
Ave. 9.0
PA:
20
20
19
23
11
Ave. 18.6
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 04:53:54 PM
There were many more reasons to defend LaFleur.
were
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 05:35:32 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 08, 2023, 05:41:50 PM
I'm sure all of the best OC candidates cannot wait to coach under a coach and GM on the hot seat.
This is such a moot argument
One can reasonably say MLF was mediocre the first half of the season, was horrible the second half of the season, and is a near guarantee to be back next year.
All things can be true
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 05:42:15 PM
I'm sure all of the best OC candidates cannot wait to coach under a coach and GM on the hot seat.
Saleh should've chosen better then, right?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2023, 05:44:32 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 05:46:16 PM
Who will even be an option to replace him?
once he's fired...the OC search thread will be unleashed.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 05:46:32 PM
This is such a moot argumentI don't think he's a near-guarantee anymore. I think it's probably 50/50 after today.
One can reasonably say MLF was mediocre the first half of the season, was horrible the second half of the season, and is a near guarantee to be back next year.
All things can be true
Post by: dcm1602 on January 08, 2023, 05:48:02 PM
Who will even be an option to replace him?
Hackett would presumably be the favorite
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 05:49:17 PM
Hackett would presumably be the favorite
No he wouldn't
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 05:51:29 PM
Hackett would presumably be the favoriteI haven't dug into OC candidates, but he makes a lot of sense given his connections to Saleh.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 08, 2023, 05:56:20 PM
No he wouldn't
Sure thing? Absolutely not
But there's a ton of reasons why he would be among if not the most probable
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 05:58:25 PM
I haven't dug into OC candidates, but he makes a lot of sense given his connections to Saleh.
Sure thing? Absolutely not
But there's a ton of reasons why he would be among if not the most probable
Then Saleh will get fired in 2023.
You don't replace one OC who just ruined a young QB's development with the guy who couldn't last the season with Russell Wilson.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 06:01:44 PM
Then Saleh will get fired in 2023.As a head coach.
You don't replace one OC who just ruined a young QB's development with the guy who couldn't last the season with Russell Wilson.
I'm not saying Hackett is my favorite candidate. I've barely thought about this at all. But if you're hiring a coach, you're usually hiring someone who got fired elsewhere, or you're hiring an unproven guy.
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 06:03:17 PM
As a head coach.As always Jets fans hate hiring new guys or retreads. The only acceptable options are guys who won a SB last year making a lateral move to us.
I'm not saying Hackett is my favorite candidate. I've barely thought about this at all. But if you're hiring a coach, you're usually hiring someone who got fired elsewhere, or you're hiring an unproven guy.
Post by: Jumbo on January 08, 2023, 06:03:36 PM
As a head coach.
I'm not saying Hackett is my favorite candidate. I've barely thought about this at all. But if you're hiring a coach, you're usually hiring someone who got fired elsewhere, or you're hiring an unproven guy.
we should just hire McVay as OC, he's pretty proven
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 06:07:53 PM
we should just hire McVay as OC, he's pretty provenSean Payton draft compensation will be cheaper if we only want him as an OC.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 08, 2023, 06:12:31 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 06:15:51 PM
I'd say the most likely scenario is the Jets keep MLF and bring in Hackett as the knowledgeable elderHackett is 43, not sure if he wants to be known as "the elder" regardless.
Gary Kubiak would fit more that kind of role.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 06:16:20 PM
As a head coach.I dont think he's a fit...given our QB situation.
I'm not saying Hackett is my favorite candidate. I've barely thought about this at all. But if you're hiring a coach, you're usually hiring someone who got fired elsewhere, or you're hiring an unproven guy.
#HackettStillSux
Post by: dcm1602 on January 08, 2023, 06:17:18 PM
Hackett is 43, not sure if he wants to be known as "the elder" regardless.
Gary Kubiak would fit more that kind of role.
I know I saw that, but he does have over 10 years as OC
(plus er sort of 1 year as HC)
Kubiak would be better, I just don't see it happening
I think outside of upgrading MLF (which is unlikely) bringing in Hackett as a resource is probably one of the better scenarios we will see
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2023, 06:24:43 PM
Sean Payton draft compensation will be cheaper if we only want him as an OC.Hire Payton as OC, then immediately fire Saleh and elevate Payton to HC.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 07:16:10 PM
As a head coach.
I'm not saying Hackett is my favorite candidate. I've barely thought about this at all. But if you're hiring a coach, you're usually hiring someone who got fired elsewhere, or you're hiring an unproven guy.
Russell Wilson improved as soon as Hackett was removed from the equation. Considering our issues start with the QB, i don't think he'll be a fit here.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 08, 2023, 07:59:18 PM
i say no to the son counterpart
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 08, 2023, 08:00:10 PM
i don't know if he can help himself
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 08:00:21 PM
do we not remember how unhappy we were when we had his dad as our OCThat is the best argument by far.
i say no to the son counterpart
Though the offense did better under him than under most.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2023, 08:01:08 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 08:28:25 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 08, 2023, 08:47:19 PM
Bill Callahan is currently the oline coach in Cleveland. I'd love to bring him back and install him as the OC if he brings a reputable QB coach with him. He was our oline coach from 2008-2011, those were some of the best oline years we've ever had.
And despite HC experience I don’t think he’s ever been anything but an OL coach since we fired him for Wayne Hunters failures in 2011.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 08, 2023, 08:49:59 PM
down the stretch
PF:
12
17
3
6
6
Ave. 9.0
PA:
20
20
19
23
11
Ave. 18.6
How many games did our defense not allow a TD this season? If memory serves I heard the stat that in 3/4 losses by Zach Wilson as QB this year, they didn’t allow a TD. Now today is another one.
Did our freaking defense actually lose 4 games in which they didn’t give up a touchdown this season? That has to be a record and an extremely futile record of complete failure by us no doubt.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2023, 08:50:50 PM
And despite HC experience I don’t think he’s ever been anything but an OL coach since we fired him for Wayne Hunters failures in 2011.
He was Dallas’ OC after we fired him from 12-14 and interim HC for Washington in 19. Do with that info what you will.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 08:51:06 PM
And despite HC experience I don’t think he’s ever been anything but an OL coach since we fired him for Wayne Hunters failures in 2011.Did we fire him? I thought we let his contract run out...then Dallas hired him and he built their godlike oline with Smith, Martin and Frederick.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 08:52:19 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 08, 2023, 08:58:06 PM
Fast forward to today...Cleveland's oline and run game is one of the best in the league.
And how’s their passing game with super QB Watson and Amari Cooper?
Post by: Libero_2 on January 08, 2023, 08:58:28 PM
He was Dallas’ OC after we fired him from 12-14 and interim HC for Washington in 19. Do with that info what you will.
I stand quite corrected.
Good fact checking.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 08, 2023, 09:23:18 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2023, 09:30:41 PM
I want Joe Brady or Brian Johnson(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTyEQ10PFbDr4EW53E93_jbNz3W1sZI57Rwwg&usqp=CAU)
Post by: dcm1602 on January 08, 2023, 09:36:27 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 09:39:52 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTyEQ10PFbDr4EW53E93_jbNz3W1sZI57Rwwg&usqp=CAU)Yes!
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 08, 2023, 10:36:48 PM
Your recency bias is showing. That isn't true.
YouTube zach wilson vs xxx and watch a few games. Dirting balls and throwing 5 yard misses on short passes started this year. He was mostly accurate with his ball placement.
For the record I'm not saying I think he can turn it around.
This is flat out, 100% false and DS’s post is a paraphrase of an exact post I made after last season. There were other people that agreed with me. Zach had a good portion of short passes - checkdowns, screens, wide open zone sitdowns that he either dirted or sailed over receivers heads. I don’t really like to nitpick but that was always concerning to me that he couldn’t completer routine, short passes to open receivers.
He looked more comfortable throwing medium passes and deep shots. I think this was true again this season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2023, 10:38:05 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2023, 10:39:55 PM
Did we fire him? I thought we let his contract run out...then Dallas hired him and he built their godlike oline with Smith, Martin and Frederick.
We essentially just let him leave so we could hire the fat Italian from the Dolphins could come in and bring in some other dumb Italian as the OLine coach who was only good for idiotic soundbites.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 08, 2023, 10:45:03 PM
Let’s get some Gords and let Ty Johnson cook
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 08, 2023, 10:46:53 PM
Post by: reuben on January 08, 2023, 11:12:39 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2023, 11:13:55 PM
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 11:23:08 PM
That is the best argument by far.Chad Pennington and Curtis Martin
Though the offense did better under him than under most.
Post by: insanity on January 08, 2023, 11:45:17 PM
This is flat out, 100% false and DS’s post is a paraphrase of an exact post I made after last season. There were other people that agreed with me. Zach had a good portion of short passes - checkdowns, screens, wide open zone sitdowns that he either dirted or sailed over receivers heads. I don’t really like to nitpick but that was always concerning to me that he couldn’t completer routine, short passes to open receivers.Show me the game. They are on youtube
He looked more comfortable throwing medium passes and deep shots. I think this was true again this season.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 06:29:01 AM
We essentially just let him leave so we could hire the fat Italian from the Dolphins could come in and bring in some other dumb Italian as the OLine coach who was only good for idiotic soundbites.But he make-a da pizza
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 06:57:15 AM
But he make-a da pizza
That was Brashton Satele.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 09, 2023, 07:11:53 AM
We essentially just let him leave so we could hire the fat Italian from the Dolphins could come in and bring in some other dumb Italian as the OLine coach who was only good for idiotic soundbites.
But he make-a da pizza
...Is this really necessary.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 07:13:36 AM
...Is this really necessary.
Yes
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 07:22:38 AM
...Is this really necessary.
Being Italian is wrong.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 07:29:21 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 07:38:50 AM
Yes
Racist!
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 07:47:06 AM
Racist!We all like-a da pizza..donna have-a nice-a titties
Post by: mj2sexay on January 09, 2023, 07:53:10 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 07:56:54 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 07:58:55 AM
I sincerely look forward to bringing up all kinds of ethnic and racial stereotypes since apparently that's now fair game.Lmao...relax.
It wasn't serious
I'm German..we AxisBroz
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 08:08:27 AM
Post by: Badger on January 09, 2023, 08:09:48 AM
Dumbass, I am Italian.Did you eat too much gabagool before bed last night?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 08:17:35 AM
I sincerely look forward to bringing up all kinds of ethnic and racial stereotypes since apparently that's now fair game.
Sir, we are all white
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 08:18:19 AM
Did you eat too much gabagool before bed last night?
That's what my bedsheets are made out of.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2023, 09:24:49 AM
Show me the game. They are on youtube
https://twitter.com/jetsmaineman/status/1447211520597839882?s=46&t=U2IuokwQKJz70zfQTZ7OMA
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 09:31:25 AM
Intended for the Saints, but it's some people that could be an OC. excrement I don't know anyone.
Pretty sure we aren't firing anyone anyway. Zach is gonna take the fall for this year.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 09:39:32 AM
Zach is gonna take the fall for this year.
Wilson didn't play in 4 of the 6 games without an offensive touchdown. Each QB had two starts without an offensive score. It's bigger than QB.
If he's the scapegoat, we've missed in a big way. We need an offensive overhaul and it starts with the coaching staff.
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2023, 09:52:02 AM
Wilson didn't play in 4 of the 6 games without an offensive touchdown. Each QB had two starts without an offensive score. It's bigger than QB.
If he's the scapegoat, we've missed in a big way. We need an offensive overhaul and it starts with the coaching staff.
I thought it was 3 for Flacco, 2 for Wilson and 1 for White?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 09:59:37 AM
I thought it was 3 for Flacco, 2 for Wilson and 1 for White?
You're right. I was going off memory.
White had the RZ nightmare in Minnesota, but he scored on the sneak.
Point stands. We couldn't score offensively no matter the QB.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 10:00:25 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 10:02:06 AM
AVT and Breece hopefully playing our next offensive game will help out a lot.
They played in two of the games where we scored no touchdowns.
We've got to stop making excuses for Mike LaFleur. It's more obvious that ever after the last three games.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 10:11:26 AM
They played in two of the games where we scored no touchdowns.
We've got to stop making excuses for Mike LaFleur. It's more obvious that ever after the last three games.
Who is making excuses for that guy at this point? He's one of several problems that need to go.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 10:13:09 AM
Who is making excuses for.that guy at this point? He's one of several problems that need to go.
SFD
dcm
Smalls
Jumbo
Puck
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2023, 10:16:37 AM
Who is making excuses for.that guy at this point? He's one of several problems that need to go.
I don’t think MLF has been good.
I think QB was a bigger issue than MLF this year.
They are intertwined so it’s pretty subjective and impossible to know for sure. I don’t mind being one of few with this opinion.
I would prefer to clean house on the offensive side of the ball just so every post isn’t about MLF this offseason.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 10:20:39 AM
I don’t think MLF has been good.Kind of how I feel. I think QB and offensive line were the biggest issues on offense, but the end result isn't good enough no matter who is out there.
I think QB was a bigger issue than MLF this year.
They are intertwined so it’s pretty subjective and impossible to know for sure. I don’t mind being one of few with this opinion.
I would prefer to clean house on the offensive side of the ball just so every post isn’t about MLF this offseason.
But if we're giving Saleh a pseudo-playoff mandate, I think we also have to let Saleh live and die with his OC pick, whether that's keeping MLF and bringing in some help, or starting over. But if we start over, we're likely not getting a good candidate to join a potential lame-duck Saleh.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 10:24:16 AM
Kind of how I feel. I think QB and offensive line were the biggest issues on offense, but the end result isn't good enough no matter who is out there.
But if we're giving Saleh a pseudo-playoff mandate, I think we also have to let Saleh live and die with his OC pick, whether that's keeping MLF and bringing in some help, or starting over. But if we start over, we're likely not getting a good candidate to join a potential lame-duck Saleh.
Unless it's an OC that's effective enough to move into the HC role...should Saleh falter and get canned.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 10:25:09 AM
Who is making excuses for that guy at this point? He's one of several problems that need to go.
Saying that our season ended when AVT and Hall went down is an excuse for LaFleur
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2023, 10:31:40 AM
I'm just glad everyone unanimously agrees we hit a home run with this hire. Clearly, there is no way this hiring can backfire.
lol
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 10:32:49 AM
ZACH WILSON SZN
PAIN!
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 11:20:45 AM
This offense was high school level the last 3 weeks. No NFL team should be that bad on offense with any NFL QB. I'm not saying we should have been putting up 25 points, but damn, gimme something besides 3 or 6.
That being said, what do you think this team would have been with say a 20th ranked QB and o-line? He got dealt a horribly shitty hand regarding injuries.
Still, I won't complain one bit if he gets fired.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 11:23:32 AM
My biggest beef with Lafleur is that he couldn't make this offense remotely competent with our below average QBs at the end of the year. I don't necessarily blame him for Wilson's suckage. Sure he played a part, but a lot of that was on Wilson himself. You can't force a player to not excrement himself.
This offense was high school level the last 3 weeks. No NFL team should be that bad on offense with any NFL QB. I'm not saying we should have been putting up 25 points, but damn, gimme something besides 3 or 6.
the losing started when you started posting again. #FireBo
all luv, brutha.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 09, 2023, 11:55:25 AM
Unless it's an OC that's effective enough to move into the HC role...should Saleh falter and get canned.
This was along my thinking on how to get someone in here. You hire a guy to be a co-offensive coordinator with a lot of experience to teach MLF how to scheme to players and the defense and call games. Give him a 5-6 year deal that stipulates he becomes HC if Saleh is fired, or an out clause if in 2-3 years the staff remains in-place (because if they're still there they're winning).
Basically, Woody has to be creative.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 09, 2023, 11:59:25 AM
Saying that our season ended when AVT and Hall went down is an excuse for LaFleur
This.
Bart and Willie were saying this yesterday. Yes, this team had a lot of injuries, and it certainly makes everything harder when two of your best three players on the offensive side of the ball go down on consecutive plays, but every team deals with injuries and this offense did nothing to overcome them. Coaching was a problem.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 12:13:17 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 12:23:54 PM
This was along my thinking on how to get someone in here. You hire a guy to be a co-offensive coordinator with a lot of experience to teach MLF how to scheme to players and the defense and call games. Give him a 5-6 year deal that stipulates he becomes HC if Saleh is fired, or an out clause if in 2-3 years the staff remains in-place (because if they're still there they're winning).I don't really like the coach-in-waiting deal. What if the coach isn't good? If the offense is good, Saleh probably isn't getting fired. If the offense is bad, we won't want to promote this hypothetical guy.
Basically, Woody has to be creative.
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2023, 12:33:40 PM
I don't really like the coach-in-waiting deal. What if the coach isn't good? If the offense is good, Saleh probably isn't getting fired. If the offense is bad, we won't want to promote this hypothetical guy.
Yeah I agree, you don't install a replacement in waiting, that's just poor management and doomed to failure.
I hate how we all just end up repeating ourselves all the time, but here it is again: replace one of Miles, Calabrese or Benton with a veteran and give him the assistant head coach as well. He fixes one of the clear coaching vacancies/issues, he gets to tell MLF what to do and how to do it when necessary without the team having to publicly demote Lafleur, and Saleh gets a voice and ears in the offensive meetings.
Post by: Badger on January 09, 2023, 01:19:19 PM
Saying that our season ended when AVT and Hall went down is an excuse for LaFleurI'm saying that but I also want him gone.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 09, 2023, 02:05:52 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 02:08:37 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 02:10:25 PM
Waiting for the thread title to read "Mike LaFired" or some excrement.
I am ready
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2023, 02:11:10 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 02:14:45 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 02:29:56 PM
Mike LaFuture after Saleh confirms that he's coming back next season.Mike to the Future
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 09, 2023, 02:34:51 PM
I don't really like the coach-in-waiting deal. What if the coach isn't good? If the offense is good, Saleh probably isn't getting fired. If the offense is bad, we won't want to promote this hypothetical guy.
The question is, how do you get a guy in here with a staff that will be on the hot seat to start next season? You have to offer something.
Yeah I agree, you don't install a replacement in waiting, that's just poor management and doomed to failure.
I hate how we all just end up repeating ourselves all the time, but here it is again: replace one of Miles, Calabrese or Benton with a veteran and give him the assistant head coach as well. He fixes one of the clear coaching vacancies/issues, he gets to tell MLF what to do and how to do it when necessary without the team having to publicly demote Lafleur, and Saleh gets a voice and ears in the offensive meetings.
You're saying the same thing I'm saying. I'm just adding that why would anyone take the job unless there is some really big carrot to dangle in front of him? Without a long-term agreement in place, why would anyone take the job when it could only be for 7-8 months?
Post by: dcm1602 on January 09, 2023, 02:55:27 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 09, 2023, 02:56:34 PM
One move Saleh will "definitely" look to make is adding a veteran offensive assistant coach - in the mold of the late Greg Knapp. He said he chose not to have one entering this season because he wanted to "quiet" the QB room after several voices in there last year. #Jets
January 9, 2023 3:35pm EST
Mark Cannizzaro
#Jets HC Robert Saleh said hes definitely considering bringing in a veteran offensive coach to at least work with the OC likely someone like a Gary Kubiak
January 9, 2023 3:32pm EST
Hackett time
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 02:56:55 PM
dcm: told u MLF was safe!
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 02:58:20 PM
Dennis Waszak Jr.
One move Saleh will "definitely" look to make is adding a veteran offensive assistant coach - in the mold of the late Greg Knapp. He said he chose not to have one entering this season because he wanted to "quiet" the QB room after several voices in there last year. #Jets
January 9, 2023 3:35pm EST
Mark Cannizzaro
#Jets HC Robert Saleh said hes definitely considering bringing in a veteran offensive coach to at least work with the OC likely someone like a Gary Kubiak
January 9, 2023 3:32pm EST
Hackett time
Hackett sucks dude
Post by: dcm1602 on January 09, 2023, 02:59:55 PM
Saleh: I'm going to take a few days to evaluate the staff
dcm: told u MLF was safe!
These quotes have nothing to do with why I know MLF is safe
They have more to do with the plan being the presumed obvious one of the Jets wanting to supplement MLF with a vet.
I would have zero complaints if we upgraded to Kubiak as OC, id actually be excited if we made that move. I just don't see it happening. And I don't see him wanting to come here.
I think Hackett is going to be the more. Obvious move
Post by: Gorilla on January 09, 2023, 03:00:14 PM
Mike LaFuture after Saleh confirms that he's coming back next season.
Mike LaFuckY'all
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 03:01:02 PM
Mike LaFuckY'all
lmao
Post by: dcm1602 on January 09, 2023, 03:01:46 PM
Hackett sucks dude
He will fit right in then
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 03:02:39 PM
He will fit right in then
You need to show up at the tailgate next year so we can have a beer....there's no freaking way you're like this in real life.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 03:03:41 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 03:08:28 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 09, 2023, 03:10:22 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 03:11:41 PM
And if he does, i'm pretty sure it's playoffs or clean house next season.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 09, 2023, 03:24:16 PM
Dennis Waszak Jr.
One move Saleh will "definitely" look to make is adding a veteran offensive assistant coach - in the mold of the late Greg Knapp. He said he chose not to have one entering this season because he wanted to "quiet" the QB room after several voices in there last year. #Jets
January 9, 2023 3:35pm EST
Mark Cannizzaro
#Jets HC Robert Saleh said hes definitely considering bringing in a veteran offensive coach to at least work with the OC likely someone like a Gary Kubiak
January 9, 2023 3:32pm EST
Hackett time
Are you being facetious? If not, what is your fascination w/ Hackett?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 09, 2023, 03:26:10 PM
I just can't imagine Saleh running it back after what happened this season.
And if he does, i'm pretty sure it's playoffs or clean house next season.
It's playoffs or clean house no matter what which makes upgrading at OC nearly impossible.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 09, 2023, 03:26:46 PM
I just can't imagine Saleh running it back after what happened this season.
And if he does, i'm pretty sure it's playoffs or clean house next season.
Exactly this.
He would be foolish to risk his job for this clown.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 09, 2023, 03:28:13 PM
It's playoffs or clean house no matter what which makes upgrading at OC nearly impossible.
Then, If I'm Saleh, I bring in someone that's proven that will give my team the best chance to succeed on offense. MLF is NOT that person
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2023, 03:29:27 PM
Then, If I'm Saleh, I bring in someone that's proven that will give my team the best chance to succeed on offense. MLF is NOT that personPretty sure if it was that easy he would.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 03:37:59 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 09, 2023, 03:48:38 PM
Are you being facetious? If not, what is your fascination w/ Hackett?
I don't think Hackett is some offensive genius.
I think MLF is almost certainly not getting fired for a variety not reasons (his love fest with Saleh, Saleh being on the very hot seat and us probably not being able to bring in anyone good)
Which makes me think plan B will be to bring in an experienced offensive castaway with QB experience, all the more likely if it's some kind of nepotism love child.
Hackett checks all the boxes. Plus Hackett definitely makes us more desirable for Rodgers, and probably helps with Carr as well. Kubiak unquestionably would be the best case scenario possible. I'm just not sure he would want to come here, and that he might be too good for us. I'd be content if we could at least have some associating with Kubiak as a consultant or something. It's worth noting that Kubiaks name is the one most frequently mentioned by the beat, although that might just be beat writers circle jerking each other
So yes I'm holding out for a Hackett QB coach/assistant head coach kind of thing, and then some potential OL coach/run game coordinator upgrades. Albeit I'm not sure they replace Benton either, I think they'll blame injuries for the OL problems
So yes between Hackett and MLF you'd have a strong appeal to the top 3 QB options on the market. 4 if you include Jordan Love (I know he's not a top option, but if we miss out on Jimmy G and Carr, Love makes a great deal of sense with MLF and Hackett)
Post by: dcm1602 on January 09, 2023, 04:11:56 PM
The guy has the OL background and a history with Carr.
But is meaningless to bring up unless Payton comes back and Marrone gets fired
Post by: dcm1602 on January 09, 2023, 04:15:27 PM
Quote
Mark Cannizzaro
Douglas said Robert Saleh has final say on his staff and whether any changes are made - not owner Woody Johnson, not Douglas #Jets sounding today like OC Mike LaFleur will remain. Saleh doesnt want to fire LaFleur
January 9, 2023 4:46pm EST
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 04:17:37 PM
That's settled. Wonder who the advisor will be.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 04:27:37 PM
Saleh going down with the ship, I guess. Sucks we have to blow another season.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 09, 2023, 04:43:58 PM
The only question is whether they can convince a solid hire to come in to co-coordinate the offense. Forget "too many voices" in the room, MLF can't be the only voice in the room. Or we're sitting here in 365 days discussing our next rebuild.
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2023, 04:54:36 PM
Saleh's been telegraphing this for weeks. His whole "Shanahan didn't fire me" bit told you what you needed to know.
The only question is whether they can convince a solid hire to come in to co-coordinate the offense. Forget "too many voices" in the room, MLF can't be the only voice in the room. Or we're sitting here in 365 days discussing our next rebuild.
TBF that's pretty much exactly what he said. I just rewatched that answer:
"We had Knapper, god rest his soul, and I can look back and reflect on whether or not I should have replaced that position last year. I chose not to, I wanted to quiet the room, but that is a position we're definitely going to replace."
There wasn't any ambiguity about it.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 04:58:46 PM
Saleh's been telegraphing this for weeks. His whole "Shanahan didn't fire me" bit told you what you needed to know.
The only question is whether they can convince a solid hire to come in to co-coordinate the offense. Forget "too many voices" in the room, MLF can't be the only voice in the room. Or we're sitting here in 365 days discussing our next rebuild.
I don't think anything has been decided yet.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 05:17:03 PM
Tom Cable
Reasons:
- has a history with Saleh during their time together in Seattle (3 seasons together)
- plenty of experience as an oline coach
- currently the oline coach in Vegas where Josh Jacobs led the league in rushing
- obvious relationship with Derek Carr
- Bonus reason: Will punch MLF in the face if he fucks up
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 09, 2023, 05:35:41 PM
Godspeed to Salad if he's willing to go down with the ship...but sucks we'll have to watch another season of putrid offensive football
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 05:37:33 PM
I can't say enough how frustrating it will be to have ZERO changes made to the coaching staff after we end on a six game losing streak and didn't score a TD in the final three games.
Godspeed to Salad if he's willing to go down with the ship...but sucks we'll have to watch another season of putrid offensive football
i'm going to give it a few more days to see if something happens.
But yes, if Saleh runs it back...freak him.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 05:48:54 PM
I'd at least like to see what Lafleur can do with a non-excrement QB. I don't think Lafleur can develop himself while trying to babysit mentally and physically challenged QBs. A good OC would have been able to make chicken salad out of chicken excrement, but Lafleur is still very young. It has to be hard to improve himself when facing a never ending carousel of injuries. I know that's the NFL, but what the Jets had this year was very abnormal regarding injuries, even for the NFL.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 05:49:43 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 09, 2023, 06:03:49 PM
however, the other thing that makes me feel okay is that he's totally going to be on a short leash. say we fix the OL, bring in a legit starter, and the offense still looks completely inept. one thing saleh has shown is that he is not afraid to at least make big in-season decisions to stir things up (benching wilson multiple times, bringing in strev over wilson, etc etc etc). the QB was scapegoated over lafleur this year (not that that in and of itself is wrong; wilson was horrible and held the team back). lafleur's hopefully not going to have that luxury next season.
given those changes, if the offense looks bad, saleh will have to cut ties with lafleur to save his own job. maybe that's another area where having a 'veteran offensive voice' will be helpful -- the guy who will step in once lafleur is fired
Post by: dcm1602 on January 09, 2023, 06:07:45 PM
I can't say enough how frustrating it will be to have ZERO changes made to the coaching staff after we end on a six game losing streak and didn't score a TD in the final three games.
Godspeed to Salad if he's willing to go down with the ship...but sucks we'll have to watch another season of putrid offensive football
Just because we seem destined to keep MLF does not mean zero coaching changes.
And assuming that we truly wanted to replace MLF, I wouldn't find it unreasonable to hold onto him until we can work out a backroom deal as again options may be limited considering everyone's on the hotseat and our QB situation is currently dogshit.
On paper we look like a team whose only "QB" is Zach Wilson and having a GM/HC that could both get fired in the next year.
Not the best sales pitch
Post by: mj2sexay on January 09, 2023, 07:04:25 PM
And so our journey in the wilderness continues friends.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 10:38:29 PM
Now that reality has set in and it appears by all indications this franchise isn't going to make major changes
The coaching staff is still being evaluated. The season ended yesterday.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 09, 2023, 10:41:36 PM
The coaching staff is still being evaluated. The season ended yesterday.
Granted this could all be GM speak, but if Joe D's actually telling the truth and Saleh has control over his staff, I'd be absolutely stunned if he lets him go. The groundwork has been laid re: Shanahan didn't fire him when it was the easy/convenient thing to do, them being besties, etc.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 10:45:59 PM
Granted this could all be GM speak, but if Joe D's actually telling the truth and Saleh has control over his staff, I'd be absolutely stunned if he lets him go. The groundwork has been laid re: Shanahan didn't fire him when it was the easy/convenient thing to do, them being besties, etc.
I don't think it's up to either of them.
Post by: Badger on January 10, 2023, 06:07:56 AM
Post by: Coach K on January 10, 2023, 06:41:55 AM
This should be fun
Woody better go trade for Lamar or get Carr
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 09:26:30 AM
i hope Saleh has an epiphany about his OC over the next few days. I'm not holding my breath though.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 10, 2023, 09:30:38 AM
I know Saleh is still evaluating his staff, so no real concrete decisions have been made yet. But to me, this feels like giving Loggains/Gase that extra year all over again. #SpinningWheelsSZN
i hope Saleh has an epiphany about his OC over the next few days. I'm not holding my breath though.
No one significant is getting fired.
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 09:37:21 AM
No one significant is getting fired.
Hence the Loggains/Gase piece of my post.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 10, 2023, 09:54:59 AM
"You have complete control over your staff, but I'm going to fire you if you keep that guy and don't make the playoffs in 2023."That's probably true. But he's likely fired if he doesn't make the playoffs no matter who his OC is. If Saleh were safer, perhaps he might be more willing to make a move at OC.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 10, 2023, 09:59:50 AM
Post by: Badger on January 10, 2023, 10:02:47 AM
That's probably true. But he's likely fired if he doesn't make the playoffs no matter who his OC is. If Saleh were safer, perhaps he might be more willing to make a move at OC.I'm just trying to think of what could actually motivate Saleh to dump his buddy. Longer leash if you fire him, shorter if you keep him.
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 10:09:14 AM
Quote
Adam Schefter:
@AdamSchefter
·
4h
Packers HC Matt LaFleur is open to Nathaniel Hackett returning to Green Bay, via @RobDemovsky
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 10, 2023, 10:25:11 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 10, 2023, 10:30:02 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2023, 10:31:37 AM
I imagine the Jets and Packers and several other teams will go after Hackett. He is the type of guy we should be looking to bring in.
Hackett is a passing game coordinator which is basically what Greg Knapp was supposed to be for us.
Mike LaFleur was a WR coach and a passing game coordinator in SF. That hasn't exactly worked very well for us and it's where we need a lot of help.
Todd Downing had a lot of success with Derek Carr. That's a coach to keep an eye on.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 10, 2023, 11:28:18 AM
Hackett is a passing game coordinator which is basically what Greg Knapp was supposed to be for us.
Mike LaFleur was a WR coach and a passing game coordinator in SF. That hasn't exactly worked very well for us and it's where we need a lot of help.
Todd Downing had a lot of success with Derek Carr. That's a coach to keep an eye on.
Downs jokes will run rampant if we suck.
Post by: reuben on January 10, 2023, 11:34:44 AM
Todd Downing had a lot of success with Derek Carr. That's a coach to keep an eye on.
Yeah, I've been thinking about this one a lot. Titans fans were fed up with him but the dude knows how to set up a rushing attack. I think he'd be a really good pairing for us, even without Carr. Might bring us Ryan Tannehill too, depending on what the Titans do this offseason.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2023, 11:45:52 AM
Yeah, I've been thinking about this one a lot. Titans fans were fed up with him but the dude knows how to set up a rushing attack. I think he'd be a really good pairing for us, even without Carr. Might bring us Ryan Tannehill too, depending on what the Titans do this offseason.
He's a good QB coach. I think things just ran their course in Tennessee and Vrabel needed a change after the wheels fell off.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2023, 11:47:28 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 10, 2023, 11:56:04 AM
To be clear the year 3 playoff mandate for Saleh is just something the posters on here invented.
I think Saleh invented it more than anyone here
Post by: dcm1602 on January 10, 2023, 12:08:33 PM
Quote
Dan Leberfeld
@jetswhispers
"The rub here is when the owner wants to fire an assistant coach and the head coach doesn't want to do it. That's happening at the Jets."-Former NFL GM Mike Lombardi on VSIN.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2023, 12:09:07 PM
Post by: Badger on January 10, 2023, 12:29:16 PM
To be clear the year 3 playoff mandate for Saleh is just something the posters on here invented.*if he keeps MLF
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 12:30:41 PM
I don't think this is anything different from what many expectedLol Fred Flinstone
Post by: dcm1602 on January 10, 2023, 12:32:29 PM
Lol Fred Flinstone
You gonna make my bed rock?
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 12:34:58 PM
You gonna make my bed rock?3.5 honks, Mr. Slate.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2023, 12:51:00 PM
*if he keeps MLF
We obtain Lamar Jackson, put up a top 5 scoring offense in the NFL but finish 10-7 overall because of Berrios, Mann and Nathan Shepherd, miss the playoffs, and fire everyone
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 12:51:54 PM
We obtain Lamar Jackson, put up a top 5 scoring offense in the NFL but finish 10-7 overall because of Berrios, Mann and Nathan Shepherd, miss the playoffs, and fire everyone
MLF doesn't like rolling his QBs out of the pocket....he'll ruin Lamar
Post by: dcm1602 on January 10, 2023, 01:24:34 PM
Him and Wilson combined should almost be able to start a full season
Post by: Badger on January 10, 2023, 01:32:41 PM
MLF doesn't like rolling his QBs out of the pocket....he'll ruin LamarBench Lamar until he can play all 3 WR positions
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 01:35:15 PM
Bench Lamar until he can play all 3 WR positions
"Did MLF scheme him open yet?"
-Us in October
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 10, 2023, 03:25:55 PM
MLF doesn't like rolling his QBs out of the pocket....he'll ruin LamarThe Jets ran more pass plays outside the pocket than the Ravens.
Zach Wilson completed 35% of his passes outside the pocket
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 03:30:48 PM
The Jets ran more pass plays outside the pocket than the Ravens.I dont believe you
Zach Wilson completed 35% of his passes outside the pocket
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2023, 03:37:37 PM
The Jets ran more pass plays outside the pocket than the Ravens.
Zach Wilson completed 35% of his passes outside the pocket
Are these designed rollouts or just plays where the QB leaves the pocket?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2023, 03:39:39 PM
The Ravens attempted 488 passes while the Jets threw it 627.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 10, 2023, 03:41:28 PM
Are these designed rollouts or just plays where the QB leaves the pocket?I just looked at plays outside the pocket. Not sure how to include designed rollouts vs just leaving the pocket.
If you exclude plays where the QB is under pressure, we rank 8th, compared to 10th in just normal out-of-pocket dropbacks.
And to your point in your next post, we also threw the ball a lot more, so on a percentage basis, they are probably higher on a percentage basis.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2023, 03:47:52 PM
I just looked at plays outside the pocket. Not sure how to include designed rollouts vs just leaving the pocket.
It'd be interesting to see how Wilson faired on plays designed to get him outside the pocket. He seemed to do well on those plays.
The unscripted stuff is where we had a big problem.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 10, 2023, 03:57:05 PM
MLF really has to stop calling those
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2023, 04:04:23 PM
How many designed plays did we have where we decided to roll Wilson back 25 yards behind the line of scrimmage?
MLF really has to stop calling those
Our offense was so much better with Flacco
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 10, 2023, 04:11:03 PM
Our offense was so much better with FlaccoWe also shouldn't be playing a likely bust, a 38-year old who was washed up 5 years ago, and a career backup every snap next season. Hopefully we have at least one proven decent QB on the roster next year.
That will really help out the offense significantly and give us a better opportunity to evaluate everyone.
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 04:33:16 PM
We also shouldn't be playing a likely bust, a 38-year old who was washed up 5 years ago, and a career backup every snap next season. Hopefully we have at least one proven decent QB on the roster next year.Actually..we should fire MLF
That will really help out the offense significantly and give us a better opportunity to evaluate everyone.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 10, 2023, 04:42:23 PM
Actually..we should fire MLFAnd everything will immediately be fixed!
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 05:22:50 PM
And everything will immediately be fixed!It's a start
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 05:47:09 PM
And everything will immediately be fixed!Fixed? I thought MLF was doing a good job lol
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 10, 2023, 08:50:38 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 10, 2023, 08:53:20 PM
i'm not sure how i feel about the thought of pairing lamar with a guy like lafleur, who does nothing to simplify the game for his QBs. it seems like the ravens have done a good job in setting lamar up with good infrastructure both with regards to the coaches around him and the style of offense they run. i don't have any faith lafleur can set him up for success
The most obvious thing is Lamar is never going to happen
But in this hypothetical Lamar comes here. MLF sucks, Saleh and MLF get fired. And we become that much more attractive to HCs now that we have a QB on the roster
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 11, 2023, 06:43:16 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 11, 2023, 07:02:45 AM
If Lamar comes, we won't suck, regardless of who's the OCHe'll be dead by week 2, we can't have nice things.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 07:11:25 AM
If Lamar comes, we won't suck, regardless of who's the OC
Yeah, my entire 25 year Jets fandom was littered with shitty OCs...i wouldn't put a lot of stock into that.
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 07:59:54 AM
https://twitter.com/JCaporoso/status/1613169744043024384?s=19
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 08:02:15 AM
Joe making some good points.I dont like the guy...but hes bang on here.
https://twitter.com/JCaporoso/status/1613169744043024384?s=19
I forgot about that Cager debacle
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 08:10:06 AM
I dont like the guy...but hes bang on here.It was one of the weirder opening day games I've been to. Rainy, backup QB, shitty gameplan. Very deflating.
I forgot about that Cager debacle
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 08:28:40 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 08:33:33 AM
Another way to look at it is that Braxton Berrios only played 2 fewer snaps that game (39/46%)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 11, 2023, 08:44:48 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 08:46:07 AM
“Prominently featuring Lawrence Cager” = 10 snaps, 1 target, and no receptions for those wondering.
He did have that one drop which was a backbreaker.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 11, 2023, 09:07:18 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 09:22:54 AM
“going four tight ends” = Conklin playing 77 snaps, Uzomah playing 23 snaps, and Cager playing 10 snaps, for those wondering.
Yeah but you can prove anything with facts.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 09:28:37 AM
He thought he had some kind of secret weapon.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 09:43:29 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 09:47:10 AM
I can't believe we're rolling with this loser next season...jfc.
Are we? Was that announced?
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 09:57:45 AM
Are we? Was that announced?
Remember when Yoda felt all the other Jedis dying near the end of Revenge of the Sith?
i just had the same feeling.
(https://media.tenor.com/TjQesMJq5bkAAAAC/will-ferrell-plums.gif)
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 10:33:56 AM
I think in slight defense there it's not unreasonable to ease a rookie into his first ever NFL game, no matter how talented he might be.This. Garrett was our best offensive player literally 1 week later. I'm fine easing rookies into the NFL. It's not like we took half the season to get him involved.
As for Cager, my biggest issue with the handling of Cager is the inconsistency of it. If you're high enough on Cager to make him a big part of the opening script, that's fine. But then you never give him another shot and cut him a month later? I don't really get that.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 11, 2023, 10:37:50 AM
They featured Lawrence Cager to start the game. That is a fact.
He thought he had some kind of secret weapon.
I just rewatched the first quarter, this is not a fact.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 11, 2023, 10:47:33 AM
https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/1613213423910719499?t=EljVCxJdNM0F8iX1JYoNrQ&s=19
Most say this isn't correct, or maybe premature?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 11, 2023, 10:53:38 AM
Conflicting reports that we fired him. I suspect it's wrong. I have a semichub d/t confusion.
https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/1613213423910719499?t=EljVCxJdNM0F8iX1JYoNrQ&s=19
Most day this isn't correct, or maybe premature?
Please let this be true.
Post by: Jumbo on January 11, 2023, 11:14:34 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 11:15:26 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 11:17:07 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 11:30:35 AM
You have to take Lombardi with a grain of salt sometimes, but I do believe there is a push-pull between Woody and Saleh regarding MLF. That makes sense to me.
Saleh bettah recognize, foo.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 11:38:02 AM
(https://i.redd.it/73bqzyrfjhba1.jpg)
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 12:15:12 PM
You have to take Lombardi with a grain of salt sometimes, but I do believe there is a push-pull between Woody and Saleh regarding MLF. That makes sense to me.It makes sense because Woody is as reactionary as the average Jets fan, for better or worse.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 12:19:15 PM
John Benton should be gone regardless.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 12:22:01 PM
Whether or not he fires LaFleur someone else will be brought in a la Greg Knapp's intended roll.
John Benton should be gone regardless.
if Lafleur goes, i expect the majority of the offensive staff to go with him. A new OC will certainly want his own guys.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 12:24:38 PM
if Lafleur goes, i expect the majority of the offensive staff to go with him. A new OC will certainly want his own guys.
I agree
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 12:33:15 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 12:34:57 PM
Now, we probably hire some OC who is willing to take a job under a potential lame-duck HC, meaning we probably don't get the best candidates, and they'll be potentially installing a new system. Is that going to be better than a 3rd year of MLF? Possibly.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 12:39:04 PM
I really wonder what the plan is if we fire MLF. I thought Garoppolo made the most sense largely because of MLF.
Now, we probably hire some OC who is willing to take a job under a potential lame-duck HC, meaning we probably don't get the best candidates, and they'll be potentially installing a new system. Is that going to be better than a 3rd year of MLF? Possibly.
We'll get the best candidates. Relax.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 12:40:45 PM
- Continuity
- Potential lack of good candidates
- Never got a chance with even an average QB
- Team has 3 high-level offensive players, and 2 were lost for the season in Week 7
Case for firing LaFleur
- Offense wasn't very productive, especially down the stretch
- Didn't develop Zach correctly (no idea on what percentage of blame)
- A couple WRs have had issues with him (mainly Moore)
- Blood sacricice to part of the fan base
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 12:42:27 PM
Case for keeping LaFleur
- Continuity
- Potential lack of good candidates
- Never got a chance with even an average QB
- Team has 3 high-level offensive players, and 2 were lost for the season in Week 7
Case for firing LaFleur
- Offense wasn't very productive, especially down the stretch
- Didn't develop Zach correctly (no idea on what percentage of blame)
- A couple WRs have had issues with him (mainly Moore)
- Blood sacricice to part of the fan base
lack of good candidates?
you act like firing an OC is some freaking taboo.
Saleh isn't a lame duck...he transformed this defense into a top 5 unit. He's not going anywhere if he hires the right guy to fix the offense.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 12:43:38 PM
Continuity
what did we do well?
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 12:43:57 PM
what did we do well?
avoided good OC candidates.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 12:44:46 PM
Garrett Wilson said we were predictable. He's our best offensive player.
Our QB will be different.
Basically our entire OL will be new.
There's nothing from 2022 that needs to carry over into 2023
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 11, 2023, 12:45:11 PM
what did we do well?
Strevcat changed the league
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 12:45:28 PM
lack of good candidates?We haven't had the right guy to run the offense in 30 years. Why do you think we will find the right guy now?
you act like firing an OC is some freaking taboo.
Saleh isn't a lame duck...he transformed this defense into a top 5 unit. He's not going anywhere if he hires the right guy to fix the offense.
Saleh lost 6 straight games to end the season and if next season doesn't go well, he's absolutely on the hot seat.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 12:46:18 PM
Continuity...Totally fair point. Now may be the best time to make a clean break given the likely turnover on offense and QB.
Garrett Wilson said we were predictable. He's our best offensive player.
Our QB will be different.
Basically our entire OL will be new.
There's nothing from 2022 that needs to carry over into 2023
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 12:46:46 PM
We haven't had the right guy to run the offense in 30 years. Why do you think we will find the right guy now?
Saleh lost 6 straight games to end the season and if next season doesn't go well, he's absolutely on the hot seat.
freak..just fold the team then.
pee off, Mack.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 12:48:23 PM
freak..just fold the team then.Don't get your hopes up.
pee off, Mack.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 12:50:50 PM
Don't get your hopes up.
for what...you to pee off?
I've accepted the fact you'll be sticking around the same way Magic accepts being HIV positive.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 12:55:23 PM
Totally fair point. Now may be the best time to make a clean break given the likely turnover on offense and QB.
The best time to make a change is when the QB will be new
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 01:26:21 PM
The best time to make a change is when the QB will be new
Yes.
I'm honestly not expecting to hear about anything new until after the Super Bowl unless someone in the Jets organization leaks something to the media and forces their hand.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 11, 2023, 01:51:20 PM
Continuity...
Garrett Wilson said we were predictable. He's our best offensive player.
Our QB will be different.
Basically our entire OL will be new.
There's nothing from 2022 that needs to carry over into 2023
How much of the predictability was related to having a QB who couldn't throw, and having 4 different QB's play?
I'm passed defending MLF, I just accept the reality that he will be the guy and the offense wasn't awful the first half of the year
Post by: dcm1602 on January 11, 2023, 02:03:37 PM
We'll get the best candidates. Relax.
This is definitely not true
We might get some decent or even good candidates
But the reality is if you're a top candidate there's no reason for you to come to this abyss where we have Zach Wilson and a HC on the hot seat.
Maybe if we bring in an OC who has some kind of backroom deal with a QB they've discussed bringing here that's a little more viable.
But this OC job is the kind that stalls careers
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:04:54 PM
This is definitely not true
We might get some decent or even good candidates
But the reality is if you're a top candidate there's no reason for you to come to this abyss where we have Zach Wilson and a HC on the hot seat.
Maybe if we bring in an OC who has some kind of backroom deal with a QB they've discussed bringing here that's a little more viable.
But this OC job is the kind that stalls careers
I'm even more convinced now. Thanks for chiming in.
I have full confidence we'll find the correct fit.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:06:51 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 02:07:29 PM
I'm even more convinced now. Thanks for chiming in.
I have full confidence we'll find the correct fit.
Why do you? Saleh was the one who hired MLF, and by all accounts doesn't want to lose him. What makes you think that the next OC he hires, if indeed he does, will be a good one?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 02:11:07 PM
How much of the predictability was related to having a QB who couldn't throw, and having 4 different QB's play?
We should've been as unpredictable as it gets with four different QBs. That's the problem.
You want to keep blaming Zach Wilson (who was definitely bad in 2022), but you fail to mention the other four games with different QBs where we failed to score a TD.
The offense was garbage. The wheels should not fall off an NFL offense when two starters get hurt. LaFleur failed to adapt. We weren't even asking him to be good at his job, just average. He failed.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:12:36 PM
Why do you? Saleh was the one who hired MLF, and by all accounts doesn't want to lose him. What makes you think that the next OC he hires, if indeed he does, will be a good one?
People don't like to make the same mistakes twice. Unless they're Rex Ryan.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 02:13:19 PM
Why do you? Saleh was the one who hired MLF, and by all accounts doesn't want to lose him. What makes you think that the next OC he hires, if indeed he does, will be a good one?
We can only hope he's learned from his mistakes.
He seemed to regret not replacing Knapp.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 11, 2023, 02:14:11 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 02:14:12 PM
and the offense wasn't awful the first half of the year
It certainly was.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 02:14:40 PM
If they don't fire him, he'll have to sit with the "almost fired" tag the rest of the year. Even if the rumor is bullshit, people will run with it having a grain of truth.
We almost have to move on at this point because if/when we struggle offensively, the fans will go apeshit.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:15:04 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 02:18:53 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:19:47 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 02:20:28 PM
Belichick switching up his offensive coaches...he's automatically on the hot seat, and nobody will want to interview there. Poor bastard.
Belichick could go 0-17 back to back seasons and keep his job. Not the best example.
Ron Rivera and the Commanders are probably the best comparison we've got right now. Defensive head coach, new QB in 2023, fired their OC.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:21:29 PM
Belichick could go 0-17 back to back seasons and keep his job. Not the best example.
Ron Rivera and the Commanders are probably the best comparison we've got right now. Defensive head coach, new QB in 2023, fired their OC.
Or Vrabel
my point was...assistants get fired, that won't deter candidates. You'd have to do some real outlandish excrement like the Texans to scare people off.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 02:22:06 PM
Or Vrabel
correct
Post by: Gorilla on January 11, 2023, 02:29:44 PM
We should've been as unpredictable as it gets with four different QBs. That's the problem.
You want to keep blaming Zach Wilson (who was definitely bad in 2022), but you fail to mention the other four games with different QBs where we failed to score a TD.
The offense was garbage. The wheels should not fall off an NFL offense when two starters get hurt. LaFleur failed to adapt. We weren't even asking him to be good at his job, just average. He failed.
This is similar to my thinking.
I'm okay with LaFleur staying or going, I'll live with it, but I prefer him being ousted after seeing the putrid final 3 games.
I get the excuse that he was dealing with trash QB play and injuries, but you still have to field a competent offensive unit and have a competent plan. A plan that can at least score a TD. A plan that isn't a red zone embarrassment, esp in Minnesota. Everyone deals with injuries, and other teams have managed and at least tread water instead of drowning.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 02:30:43 PM
- Jeremy Bates (1 yr)
- John Morton (1 yr)
- Marty Mornhinweg (2 yrs)
- Tony Sparano (1 yr)
- Mike Heimderdinger (1 yr)
I'm not saying the Jets can't hire someone good. But if you're a hotshot OC candidate, would you rather get hired under a new/established coach, or would you rather go to a team like the Jets or Commanders where the coach is on the hot seat?
We haven't made the playoffs in 12 years, our owner doesn't seem to have a good reputation around the league, we don't have a QB, and if things don't go well without a QB, the staff might be gone. As far as OC jobs go, it isn't a good one (neither is Washington). OC jobs are coveted enough where we should find some retread that will want it, but if there is a hot OC candidate out there, I doubt we are his first choice unless they really love Saleh.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:33:05 PM
Here are all the Jets offensive coordinators we have hired after the HC fired an OC mid-tenure since Parcells.
- Jeremy Bates (1 yr)
- John Morton (1 yr)
- Marty Mornhinweg (2 yrs)
- Tony Sparano (1 yr)
- Mike Heimderdinger (1 yr)
I'm not saying the Jets can't hire someone good. But if you're a hotshot OC candidate, would you rather get hired under a new/established coach, or would you rather go to a team like the Jets or Commanders where the coach is on the hot seat?
We haven't made the playoffs in 12 years, our owner doesn't seem to have a good reputation around the league, we don't have a QB, and if things don't go well without a QB, the staff might be gone. As far as OC jobs go, it isn't a good one (neither is Washington). OC jobs are coveted enough where we should find some retread that will want it, but if there is a hot OC candidate out there, I doubt we are his first choice unless they really love Saleh.
we have a nice core, a top 5 defense, and an owner willing to spend. Candidates will come.
You keep referring to the past...the culture has changed here.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 11, 2023, 02:35:47 PM
We should've been as unpredictable as it gets with four different QBs. That's the problem.
You want to keep blaming Zach Wilson (who was definitely bad in 2022), but you fail to mention the other four games with different QBs where we failed to score a TD.
The offense was garbage. The wheels should not fall off an NFL offense when two starters get hurt. LaFleur failed to adapt. We weren't even asking him to be good at his job, just average. He failed.
This is exactly why I'm sick of hearing "we didn't even get average QB play."
How do we know Flacco, White, and even Zach wouldn't have given us "average" QB play if the offensive gameplan and playcalling wasn't garbage? Like you said, our best player called the offense out for being predictable.
When we all talk about "even average QB play" would've saved this season, what we might really mean is "if we had a QB who could carry the team despite the playcalling."
We know Zach has at least untapped talent and though he flashed talent we can argue White might not be better than bottom-average. But Flacco, when he had time, hit his targets. Hell, he hit Wilson surrounded by 4 Dolphins.
I think MB beat the drum a bit loud this year, but maybe he was right all along.
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 02:36:27 PM
we have a nice core, a top 5 defense, and an owner willing to spend. Candidates will come.
You keep referring to the past...the culture has changed here.
A head coach going into his third year on the hot seat, a second year OC potentially being fired by order of the owner and against the wishes of the HC, a yawning chasm of failure and disappointment at QB, carousel of disasters on the OL. I'm not sure the culture is all that different from the last however long.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:39:05 PM
A head coach going into his third year on the hot seat, a second year OC potentially being fired by order of the owner and against the wishes of the HC, a yawning chasm of failure and disappointment at QB, carousel of disasters on the OL. I'm not sure the culture is all that different from the last however long.
It all depends on your perspective. The way you lay it out, we'll never hire a competent coach again.
I like to be slightly more positive. But the team needs to give me a reason to, and that starts with firing the offensive staff.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:50:19 PM
This is exactly why I'm sick of hearing "we didn't even get average QB play."
How do we know Flacco, White, and even Zach wouldn't have given us "average" QB play if the offensive gameplan and playcalling wasn't garbage? Like you said, our best player called the offense out for being predictable.
When we all talk about "even average QB play" would've saved this season, what we might really mean is "if we had a QB who could carry the team despite the playcalling."
We know Zach has at least untapped talent and though he flashed talent we can argue White might not be better than bottom-average. But Flacco, when he had time, hit his targets. Hell, he hit Wilson surrounded by 4 Dolphins.
I think MB beat the drum a bit loud this year, but maybe he was right all along.
I beat the drum loud because my frustration takes over. We've wasted seasons under Rex, Bowles, and Gase. The thought of doing it again makes me nauseous.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 02:50:45 PM
You keep referring to the past...the culture has changed here.It seems extremely premature to state that as a fact, considering we finished on our longest losing streak to end a season since Kotite.
Our young core is good. I am optimistic we can turn it into something. But 7-10 doesn't change a culture.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 02:52:14 PM
This is exactly why I'm sick of hearing "we didn't even get average QB play."If you want to say MLF did a bad job developing LaFleur, it's hard to argue against it.
How do we know Flacco, White, and even Zach wouldn't have given us "average" QB play if the offensive gameplan and playcalling wasn't garbage? Like you said, our best player called the offense out for being predictable.
When we all talk about "even average QB play" would've saved this season, what we might really mean is "if we had a QB who could carry the team despite the playcalling."
We know Zach has at least untapped talent and though he flashed talent we can argue White might not be better than bottom-average. But Flacco, when he had time, hit his targets. Hell, he hit Wilson surrounded by 4 Dolphins.
I think MB beat the drum a bit loud this year, but maybe he was right all along.
You can't tell me that Joe Flacco is a starting-caliber quarterback in 2022. Come on.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 02:54:06 PM
It seems extremely premature to state that as a fact, considering we finished on our longest losing streak to end a season since Kotite.
Our young core is good. I am optimistic we can turn it into something. But 7-10 doesn't change a culture.
if you don't think the culture has improved since Gase left...then i'm not really sure what you're watching.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 02:54:18 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 02:57:56 PM
if you don't think the culture has improved since Gase left...then i'm not really sure what you're watching.
If by "the culture has improved" you mean "90% of the players don't think the head coach is a queynte" then yes, you are correct. But the SOJF "fire everyone" culture is still strong around the club, and we're all just waiting for Woody to demonstrate it.
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 03:00:18 PM
what did we do well?Dude can grill a salmon fillet.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 03:00:39 PM
If by "the culture has improved" you mean "90% of the players don't think the head coach is a queynte" then yes, you are correct. But the SOJF "fire everyone" culture is still strong around the club, and we're all just waiting for Woody to demonstrate it.Adam Gase had a better winning percentage in 2019 than Saleh has had in either of his 2 seasons. Hard for me to say the culture has changed a ton when you haven't done better than Adam Gase.
If the bar is being better than the 2nd-worst season in franchise history, then we've eclipsed that. Hooray!
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 03:01:38 PM
If by "the culture has improved" you mean "90% of the players don't think the head coach is a queynte" then yes, you are correct. But the SOJF "fire everyone" culture is still strong around the club, and we're all just waiting for Woody to demonstrate it.
Well...when you're potentially a big part of the reason why your QB fails to develop (and admits it to the media), your offense fails to score a TD in multiple games this season, and can't handle playcalling. Chances are you probably deserve to be fired. That's not "hey let's fire everyone" that's "you're not doing your job, you've had multiple weeks to figure out, and you kept doing the same excrement, you have to go".
Big difference.
Saleh and MLF were preaching accountability all freaking season. "gotta look inward, this is on me"....after every loss. If Saleh wants to be accountable, do the needful.
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 03:05:43 PM
Well...when you're potentially a big part of the reason why your QB fails to develop (and admits it to the media), your offense fails to score a TD in multiple games this season, and can't handle playcalling. Chances are you probably deserve to be fired. That's not "hey let's fire everyone" that's "you're not doing your job, you've had multiple weeks to figure out, and you kept doing the same excrement, you have to go".
Big difference.
Right, but you're arguing that potential OCs won't be put off the job because the culture of failure and firing that we're known for has changed and, well, evidently it hasn't.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 03:07:35 PM
Right, but you're arguing that potential OCs won't be put off the job because the culture of failure and firing that we're known for has changed and, well, evidently it hasn't.
how so? we've kept Rex, Bowles and Gase longer than they should've been kept. This should be job security central.
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 03:08:54 PM
Now, we probably hire some OC who is willing to take a job under a potential lame-duck HC, meaning we probably don't get the best candidates, and they'll be potentially installing a new system. Is that going to be better than a 3rd year of MLF? Possibly.
Which offensive FAs want to play under lame duck LaFleur?
Post by: Coach K on January 11, 2023, 03:11:28 PM
Continuity and not having a starting qb on tbw roster are however
I for one don't like him for a bevy of schmeat8c reasons.
But its whatever . They're all gone if they're not in the playoffs so I'm less foaming at tbe mouth than most but I won't be excited nor surprised if he stays
Lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 03:11:45 PM
Whichever ones we pay.
Which offensive FAs want to play under lame duck LaFleur?
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 03:21:53 PM
Playing a scared game of what is isn't any reason to justify keeping MLFThe only time I ever played the "what if the next guy is worse" game was when Rex was on the hot seat and I still haven't been proven wrong.
Continuity and not having a starting qb on tbw roster are however
I for one don't like him for a bevy of schmeat8c reasons.
But its whatever . They're all gone if they're not in the playoffs so I'm less foaming at tbe mouth than most but I won't be excited nor surprised if he stays
Lol
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 03:22:27 PM
Whichever ones we pay.Coaches like money too.
Post by: Coach K on January 11, 2023, 03:26:28 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 03:27:05 PM
Coaches like money too.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/240/699/000.gif)
Post by: dcm1602 on January 11, 2023, 04:22:07 PM
No idea whether MLF will ultimately be fired, but I can say that the person who started the rumor has **ground** their way to a backwater NFL beat by copypasta-ing other peoples actual work for years on Twitter to increase their own eminence. Do with that what you will.
January 11, 2023 4:44pm EST
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 04:26:27 PM
Brian Bassett
No idea whether MLF will ultimately be fired, but I can say that the person who started the rumor has **ground** their way to a backwater NFL beat by copypasta-ing other peoples actual work for years on Twitter to increase their own eminence. Do with that what you will.
January 11, 2023 4:44pm EST
Brian Bassett sucks too
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 11, 2023, 04:37:23 PM
In case you were wondering we ranked 29th in scoring and 25th in total yards.
This is a performance based league, and MLF blows.
Post by: reuben on January 11, 2023, 04:53:49 PM
Brian Bassett
No idea whether MLF will ultimately be fired, but I can say that the person who started the rumor has **ground** their way to a backwater NFL beat by copypasta-ing other peoples actual work for years on Twitter to increase their own eminence. Do with that what you will.
January 11, 2023 4:44pm EST
To whom is he alluding? I don't care enough to dig.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 04:59:09 PM
To whom is he alluding? I don't care enough to dig.
Aaron Wilson
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 11, 2023, 05:15:24 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 11, 2023, 05:16:30 PM
Official
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 05:16:41 PM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1613313516634791936
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 05:18:10 PM
He’s gone!!WE'RE GOIN TO RICK'S
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 05:18:25 PM
Get it right this time
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 05:18:47 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 05:19:22 PM
Curious if MLF gets another gig right away.
Might go work for his big brother.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 11, 2023, 05:19:37 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:20:41 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:23:01 PM
Realistic candidates?I started a thread for this discussion
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 11, 2023, 05:24:00 PM
Post by: Gorilla on January 11, 2023, 05:24:04 PM
Curious if MLF gets another gig right away.
I'd be surprised if he didn't.
Maybe not as an OC or playcaller, but at least QB oach*, WR coach, passing game coordinator, etc.
Some team will snap him up sooner rather than later, i think.
*eta, actually maybe not
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 05:24:48 PM
Lets freaking ride!!!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230111/89060963b9eb93c593e6259c0d908906.jpg)
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 11, 2023, 05:25:04 PM
Who says you know what, I want a bottom 5 offense when I look at OC candidates
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:25:05 PM
I'd be surprised if he didn't.I heard he makes a stellar cup of coffee
Maybe not as an OC or playcaller, but at least QB oach, WR coach, passing game coordinator, etc.
Some team will snap him up sooner rather than later, i think.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:25:43 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230111/89060963b9eb93c593e6259c0d908906.jpg)Gonna make a babbie tonight
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 05:26:17 PM
I'd be surprised if he didn't.I mean more as an OC gig. He'll definitely get another job.
Maybe not as an OC or playcaller, but at least QB oach*, WR coach, passing game coordinator, etc.
Some team will snap him up sooner rather than later, i think.
*eta, actually maybe not
Based on the reporting, it seems like LaFleur wants a fresh start, too, rather than go into 2023 on a hot seat.
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1613314683481559043
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 11, 2023, 05:28:36 PM
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 05:29:19 PM
And I do love the spin they put on it....teams have inquired about him... freaking bullshit.I'm fine with letting him save face. Makes the Jets a more attractive place to work vs trashing him on his way out. Keep it classy even if it's BS.
Who says you know what, I want a bottom 5 offense when I look at OC candidates
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 11, 2023, 05:30:06 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:30:48 PM
Thanks
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 05:30:49 PM
I'm fine with letting him save face. Makes the Jets a more attractive place to work vs trashing him on his way out. Keep it classy even if it's BS.
Yes agreed. Also it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he's had a couple of calls saying "Matt, if you end up not staying with the Jets give me a call". It doesn't mean that teams are trying to trade for him to become their OC.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 05:32:16 PM
I have mixed feelings about this, mostly because I'm skeptical of our ability to bring in an upgrade.Firing LaFleur is fine. Offense wasn't good under his watch. But I'm pretty confident many of the people who have been begging for MLF to get fired will just want the new OC fired by December.
The thing I don't really like about it is that it's almost certainly a Woody decision.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:33:13 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 05:34:36 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:35:55 PM
Firing LaFleur is fine. Offense wasn't good under his watch. But I'm pretty confident many of the people who have been begging for MLF to get fired will just want the new OC fired by December.
The thing I don't really like about it is that it's almost certainly a Woody decision.
It's literally the best decision that had to be made. MLF had 2 years here, and royally fucked everything up.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 11, 2023, 05:39:30 PM
Firing LaFleur is fine. Offense wasn't good under his watch. But I'm pretty confident many of the people who have been begging for MLF to get fired will just want the new OC fired by December.
The thing I don't really like about it is that it's almost certainly a Woody decision.
Yeah, I had long been skeptical that Saleh would be willing to fire one of his "guys" (especially his best friend's little brother). If he made this decision on his own, great (that shows objectivity and an ability to overcome nepotism I wasn't sure he had). If Woody forced this on him, that does not bode well for the future.
Post by: Jumbo on January 11, 2023, 05:41:07 PM
I'd be surprised if he didn't.
Maybe not as an OC or playcaller, but at least QB oach*, WR coach, passing game coordinator, etc.
Some team will snap him up sooner rather than later, i think.
*eta, actually maybe not
He will at least get a job at a higher level than Towel Logins
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:41:35 PM
I mean more as an OC gig. He'll definitely get another job.
Based on the reporting, it seems like LaFleur wants a fresh start, too, rather than go into 2023 on a hot seat.
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1613314683481559043
Connor Hughes has been telling everyone under the sun that MLF was coming back...he's trying to save face. The guy is white Manish.
Post by: Jumbo on January 11, 2023, 05:42:23 PM
Yeah, I had long been skeptical that Saleh would be willing to fire one of his "guys" (especially his best friend's little brother). If he made this decision on his own, great (that shows objectivity and an ability to overcome nepotism I wasn't sure he had). If Woody forced this on him, that does not bode well for the future.
I would bet good money the order to fire came from the top. I agree that it does not bode well for the future. But we lost 6 straight to end the season with an awful offense so something had to give
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 05:43:09 PM
Yeah, I had long been skeptical that Saleh would be willing to fire one of his "guys" (especially his best friend's little brother). If he made this decision on his own, great (that shows objectivity and an ability to overcome nepotism I wasn't sure he had). If Woody forced this on him, that does not bode well for the future.
There is a third option, which is that Joe made his feelings known to Saleh, and a fourth one, which is that LaFleur didn't want to stick around knowing that his boss was protecting him while the guy who signs all their paychecks wanted him gone. There are a bunch of permutations, the truth of which we will likely never know.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 05:43:50 PM
Connor Hughes has been telling everyone under the sun that MLF was coming back...he's trying to save face. The guy is white Manish.Everyone with the Jets is saying similar.
If the owner wants you gone, and you have other options, leaving makes sense. We will know more about how much spin was on those reports when MLF takes his new job, whether it's an OC or a lesser role.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 05:44:52 PM
I would bet good money the order to fire came from the top. I agree that it does not bode well for the future. But we lost 6 straight to end the season with an awful offense so something had to giveExactly. Had to make a move on the coaching staff, whether that's bringing in someone to work with MLF or replacing him altogether. I thought it would be the former, but I imagine Woody made it clear what he wanted.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:46:32 PM
Everyone with the Jets is saying similar.
If the owner wants you gone, and you have other options, leaving makes sense. We will know more about how much spin was on those reports when MLF takes his new job, whether it's an OC or a lesser role.
you think he's getting an OC job somewhere else in the NFL? Nobody is going to let him anywhere near their QB.
How many times do you have to hear this....he did a BAD job here. He's not on the top of anyone else's wishlist. That tweet from Hughes is horseshit.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 11, 2023, 05:51:40 PM
I have mixed feelings about this, mostly because I'm skeptical of our ability to bring in an upgrade.
As you should be....we haven't found a good one in decades.
But we do know we got rid of a shitty one
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:53:11 PM
As you should be....we haven't found a good one in decades.
But we do know we got rid of a shitty one
this is true.
in my 25 years of being a fan, we haven't had a single good OC.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 11, 2023, 05:53:42 PM
Everyone with the Jets is saying similar.
If the owner wants you gone, and you have other options, leaving makes sense. We will know more about how much spin was on those reports when MLF takes his new job, whether it's an OC or a lesser role.
I'd wager a excrement ton of money his next gig will NOT be as an OC...unless we're talking college
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 05:57:29 PM
I'd wager a excrement ton of money his next gig will NOT be as an OC...unless we're talking collegeI have no idea. Lots of offensive coordinators get fired and find new gigs. A team could easily sell themselves on the Jets offense being a bad situation and LaFleur being a young offensive mind, especially given how popular the Shanahan coaching tree is.
I would say probably a 30-40% chance he gets a new OC gig. My guess is his brother hires him to be a passing game coordinator in Green Bay to work with their young OC who started as an OL coach and is probably more of a running game guy.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:57:58 PM
Post by: Jumbo on January 11, 2023, 05:59:39 PM
my blood thirst has been quenched.
and you can thank your ole pal Robert Wood Johnson IV!
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 06:00:23 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 06:00:55 PM
and you can thank your ole pal Robert Wood Johnson IV!
My aunt used to babysit him when he was a kid. We tight.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 11, 2023, 06:06:41 PM
Lafluer
Loggains
Bates
Morton
Gailey
Mornhinweg
Schotty
Heimerdinger
Hackett
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 06:07:20 PM
I salute you, sir.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 06:11:14 PM
- Chance of Zach Wilson staying goes up.
- Chance of Garoppolo coming in goes down.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 11, 2023, 06:12:53 PM
Quick thoughts
- Chance of Zach Wilson staying goes up.
- Chance of Garoppolo coming in goes down.
Sounds like there might not be a playoff mandate
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 06:13:25 PM
Quick thoughts
- Chance of Zach Wilson staying goes up.
- Chance of Garoppolo coming in goes down.
I think Zach was always going to be on the roster next year.
Good....Garappolo is an injury waiting to happen.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 06:13:45 PM
Sounds like there might not be a playoff mandateWhy? If anything, this signals impatience and bloodlust from Woody.
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 06:13:55 PM
Quick thoughts
- Chance of Zach Wilson staying goes up.
- Chance of Garoppolo coming in goes down.
I don't think it changes QB strategy at all. I think the chances of Wilson starting next season as the Jets' #2/#3 were and still are extremely high.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 06:14:40 PM
Quick thoughts
- Chance of Zach Wilson staying goes up.
- Chance of Garoppolo coming in goes down.
I don't see at all how this would change that.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 06:16:18 PM
I don't see at all how this would change that.Hard to bring back both Zach and MLF. If you believe in Zach, that means you think MLF did a bad job with him so far.
As for Jimmy G, seems pretty simple - we just fired the guy who coached him in SF. If Jimmy were the guy, keeping MLF made more sense.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 06:16:49 PM
Hard to bring back both Zach and MLF. If you believe in Zach, that means you think MLF did a bad job with him so far.
As for Jimmy G, seems pretty simple - we just fired the guy who coached him in SF. If Jimmy were the guy, keeping MLF made more sense.
You're thinking too hard.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 11, 2023, 06:17:26 PM
Why? If anything, this signals impatience and bloodlust from Woody.
If Zach is on the roster I think this team would be less likely to keep Carr around long term, which means less likely to sign him at all
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 06:18:48 PM
You're thinking too hard.I hope not. I hope the Jets are thinking of potential OC-QB pairings when they make big moves like this.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 06:20:02 PM
Why? If anything, this signals impatience and bloodlust from Woody.
We were awful on offense two years in a row and the QB play got worse.
This is not impatience. It was necessary.
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 06:20:15 PM
I hope not. I hope the Jets are thinking of potential OC-QB pairings when they make big moves like this.
Sure, but just because they worked together before doesn't mean they want to again. I can think of a few former coworkers who would make me actively avoid a job, and in a high profile industry like football I'll bet there are plenty of guys who haven't worked together before who'd really like to.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 06:21:06 PM
You're thinking too hard.
that's Mack's forte.
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2023, 06:23:07 PM
Yes agreed. Also it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he's had a couple of calls saying "Matt, if you end up not staying with the Jets give me a call". It doesn't mean that teams are trying to trade for him to become their OC.
Cimini thinks this is how it panned out.
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1613316905875423233
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2023, 06:29:05 PM
I hope not. I hope the Jets are thinking of potential OC-QB pairings when they make big moves like this.
They probably are. YOU are thinking too hard.
Post by: Coach K on January 11, 2023, 06:29:07 PM
Woody may be a reactionary guy who inserts himself too much
But bad football is bad football. No amount of coach speak from Saleh would've convinced me if sign the checks. Plain and simple
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 06:35:06 PM
Yeah, I had long been skeptical that Saleh would be willing to fire one of his "guys" (especially his best friend's little brother). If he made this decision on his own, great (that shows objectivity and an ability to overcome nepotism I wasn't sure he had). If Woody forced this on him, that does not bode well for the future.In this case, Woody meddling seems like the lesser evil compared to MLF sticking around.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 06:41:47 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 11, 2023, 06:42:26 PM
We were awful on offense two years in a row and the QB play got worse.I'm not saying it is a bad move, but Woody ran out of patience with MLF, despite Saleh appearing to want him back.
This is not impatience. It was necessary.
Thats my biggest issue. I dont want Woody meddling with affairs.
I dont care that MLF is gone. He didn't do a good job. I was fine giving him one last chance but firing him also makes sense.
I just hope there is a longterm plan and we arent just satisfying Woody's desire for blood.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 06:50:13 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 06:50:38 PM
Saleh appearing to want him back.
I'm not sure if he did after that last game. He didn't commit to him in the final presser.
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2023, 06:54:41 PM
Our last 10 OC's...makes you want to vomitI'm still a Jeremy Bates truther, I think he was not awful.
Lafluer
Loggains
Bates
Morton
Gailey
Mornhinweg
Schotty
Heimerdinger
Hackett
Edit: forgot Sparano too. Between Schotty and Weg.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 06:59:24 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 11, 2023, 07:06:08 PM
Hes a good wr coach look at tbe production they've got by committee under him
Guy can't call plays situationally or script a decent first 18 plays
Healthy or not we always started slow and his routes were so long developing even with a hurt OL it showed tbe unwillingness to adapt
Sorry not sorry freak off
Post by: Coach K on January 11, 2023, 07:06:33 PM
If we hire Todd Monken (this time), Woody is definitely involved.I'm fine with Monken. The scheme is solid af just gotta have a good OL
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 07:06:57 PM
Hes gonna go be a WR coach or passing game coordinator elsewhere
I doubt it
Post by: Coach K on January 11, 2023, 07:08:37 PM
I'm not saying it is a bad move, but Woody ran out of patience with MLF, despite Saleh appearing to want him back.I think Saleh honestly wanted the time to watch film and decide how much of the onus is on MLF and wasn't gonna bury his real life close friend in the media
Thats my biggest issue. I dont want Woody meddling with affairs.
I dont care that MLF is gone. He didn't do a good job. I was fine giving him one last chance but firing him also makes sense.
I just hope there is a longterm plan and we arent just satisfying Woody's desire for blood.
We will never know but worst case scenario this was given as an ultimatum to Saleh
Fact of the matter is hes on the hot seat regardless I'm more inclined to believe he didn't want MLF to be the reason he's a DC somewhere in 24
Post by: Coach K on January 11, 2023, 07:09:19 PM
I doubt itDid I say in the NFL rofl
All jokes aside we've discussed what we don't like and it outweighs anything else
Post by: Coach K on January 11, 2023, 07:10:02 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 11, 2023, 07:10:39 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 07:12:47 PM
Let's all just be happy that mediocrity isn't good enough and know whoever we get will probably have more experience than MLF ever hadI am excite. I love getting my way. <3 Woddy
Post by: bojanglesman on January 11, 2023, 07:13:51 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230111/89060963b9eb93c593e6259c0d908906.jpg)Lol
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 07:21:54 PM
I'd be surprised if he didn't.
Maybe not as an OC or playcaller, but at least QB oach*, WR coach, passing game coordinator, etc.
Some team will snap him up sooner rather than later, i think.
*eta, actually maybe not
If someone hires him as anything other than a WR coach...
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 11, 2023, 07:55:44 PM
Regardless, it's good he's gone. I don't care if it was Woody, mutual, or Zach told him he'd freak his mother if he stayed.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 11, 2023, 07:58:06 PM
Basically, the QBs were blamed for holding the team back, but maybe it was just LaFleur holding the QBs back.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2023, 08:00:35 PM
Also, not to belabor the point, but I wasn't saying Flacco should be a starter in the NFL. My point was that we kept saying "Average QB play would've won games for this team" but maybe we'd have gotten average QB play if the playcalling wasn't so bad.Amen
Basically, the QBs were blamed for holding the team back, but maybe it was just LaFleur holding the QBs back.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 11, 2023, 09:35:39 PM
Also, not to belabor the point, but I wasn't saying Flacco should be a starter in the NFL. My point was that we kept saying "Average QB play would've won games for this team" but maybe we'd have gotten average QB play if the playcalling wasn't so bad.
Basically, the QBs were blamed for holding the team back, but maybe it was just LaFleur holding the QBs back.
In reality it’s a combination of those issues. We won’t get a better feel for how much blame is on either group until next year (or ever) when either a QB gets it right, or LaFleur gets a new job and gets it right. Or the more likely scenario, everybody continues to fail in the future
Post by: bojanglesman on January 11, 2023, 09:37:21 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2023, 09:37:43 PM
Does anyone else on the offensive coaching staff stay?
Maybe Ron Middleton
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 11, 2023, 09:47:36 PM
The only time I ever played the "what if the next guy is worse" game was when Rex was on the hot seat and I still haven't been proven wrong.
I did this with Todd Bowles and was immediately proven right
So the Commanders' offense ranked 24th in scoring and 20th in total yards and they decided to fire their OC. Their QB's were Wentz and Heineke.
In case you were wondering we ranked 29th in scoring and 25th in total yards.
This is a performance based league, and MLF blows.
Those QBs are better than ours?
Post by: Libero_2 on January 11, 2023, 09:59:26 PM
Does anyone else on the offensive coaching staff stay?
QB coach - that entire room underperformed. Zach didn’t impress at all.
RB coach - not sure how to evaluate this room. Hall was on a tear that was taking the league by storm. Carter fell of to below JAG levels. Robinson was traded for and never used. Bam Knight performed well for a udfa for a minute. I’d wager… this coach is gone
OL coach - DUI last offseason. Coached AVT to greatness. Massive regression from Tomlinson and Fant. Got zero level play late in the season, despite having 4/5 planned week one starters. Blocking for the run game was god awful
WR coach - suspended for a year. Unable to get good play out of Mims and Moore. Wilson is a damn stud. No reason to bring him back when he can’t coach anyways
TE coach - under utilized. But massive step up from a year ago. Ruckert was blocking like crazy in the last game. Middleton showed promise as the leader at the senior bowl.
All in all I’m with H, Middleton could stick. Possibly our RB coach as well if the OL is blamed for their poor performance after Knights breakout.
But honestly, new OC will likely mean he wants all his own guys
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 06:25:03 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 07:59:25 AM
It's also funny he got fired one day after I updated my avatar...I guess I will change it back
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 08:01:28 AM
Our offense wasn't ranked higher than 27 in any of the offensive categories.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 08:06:17 AM
I keep laughing at all the tweets i see from media saying that MLF's offensive mind is widely respected around the league.
Our offense wasn't ranked higher than 27 in any of the offensive categories.
Connor seems to be the biggest one in absolute mass hysteria over the move.
I'm not convinced it was the best move, especially since it's presented as Woody forcing it on Saleh.
But at the end of the day MLF is replaceable and it's certainly not difficult to imagine us ending up with an upgrade
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 08:08:05 AM
I keep laughing at all the tweets i see from media saying that MLF's offensive mind is widely respected around the league.
Our offense wasn't ranked higher than 27 in any of the offensive categories.
Adam Gase's offensive mind is widely respected around the league. Like MLF, his problem is that he doesn't get situational football.
I'm sure MLF could succeed with an experienced QB who calls his own plays e.g. Rodgers.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 12, 2023, 08:08:24 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 08:12:52 AM
I'm sure MLF could succeed with an experienced QB who calls his own plays e.g. Rodgers.
So could any one of us.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 08:13:50 AM
Connor seems to be the biggest one in absolute mass hysteria over the move.
I'm not convinced it was the best move, especially since it's presented as Woody forcing it on Saleh.
But at the end of the day MLF is replaceable and it's certainly not difficult to imagine us ending up with an upgrade
Connor Hughes is eating a warm excrement sandwich right now...because he kept advocating for the Jets to keep him. He's out of the loop, so now he's doing what he does best and is spreading bullshit propaganda.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 12, 2023, 08:17:37 AM
Connor Hughes is eating a warm excrement sandwich right now...because he kept advocating for the Jets to keep him. He's out of the loop, so now he's doing what he does best and is spreading bullshit propaganda.
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1613214788170940417?t=yXrp4vhYW-mk_KDC5tXwhA&s=19
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1613313378423799808?t=2DQXK356RC9-xcmrrTmeWg&s=19
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 12, 2023, 08:20:10 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:20:58 AM
Connor seems to be the biggest one in absolute mass hysteria over the move.
He definitely used LaFleur as a source, similar to Manish with Pettine.
All of the Becton, Mims, Moore smear campaigns make a lot more sense looking back on it.
I remember Hughes being one of the first to openly criticize Mims not being ready to go. He doesn't know enough about the sport to report that without someone shitting on the player.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 08:22:40 AM
It's being presented as us allowing him to move on so Saleh doesn't have to eat a excrement sandwich in the media.
I'll assume you're purely referring to the teams around the league were asking about MLFs availability aspect
Because everything else suggests Woody was meddling and forced it
If Saleh is able to go out and find another buddy buddy of his that runs a similar offense I think this ends up being a neutral to good move.
If this ends up another arranged marriage, ala Gase/Greg Williams. Who the freak knows how it turns out. Especially if we do what others have mentioned by bringing in a guy that could replace Saleh in a year or so
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 08:24:43 AM
He definitely used LaFleur as a source, similar to Manish with Pettine.
All of the Becton, Mims, Moore smear campaigns make a lot more sense looking back on it.
I remember Hughes being one of the first to openly criticize Mims not being ready to go. He doesn't know enough about the sport to report that without someone shitting on the player.
That actually makes a lot of sense because the way he's acting is freaking ridiculous.
Nobody knows what the plan for the offense is yet, yet he's being a nut job.
There's certainly things you can fairly criticize, but that's not even close to what he's doing
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 08:25:18 AM
We're acting like Woody is the equivalent of Jim Irsay or Jerry Jones...which I don't think he is.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:27:18 AM
Honestly, who freaking cares if Woody meddled? It's his team, our offense was dogshit and IF he forced the move, good. It was the right decision for the team.
We're acting like Woody is the equivalent of Jim Irsay or Jerry Jones...which I don't think he is.
If you take our beat seriously (which no one should), the only reason LaFleur left is because Aaron Wilson reported he was fired and then NFL teams started asking if they could have him...
An absolutely ridiculous narrative that was clearly leaked by LaFleur's agent.
Robert Saleh knew it was time for a change. They tried to blame it on the quarterback at first (rightfully so) but then the wheels completely fell off after they made a change at the position. There was only one person to blame at that point.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 08:27:49 AM
Honestly, who freaking cares if Woody meddled? It's his team, our offense was dogshit and IF he forced the move, good. It was the right decision for the team.
We're acting like Woody is the equivalent of Jim Irsay or Jerry Jones...which I don't think he is.
I think caring about Woody meddling is a valid argument. It's not like he's a brilliant football mind with a track record of success. I mean Heis has pointed out that Woody will probably want Rodgers. If JD and Saleh think Rodgers is the way to go and is good for Zach so be it. But I don't want Woody coming out and forcing it because he thinks it'll be good for ticket or jersey sales.
And if Woody is willing to meddle in getting rid of MLF, is Woody willing to meddle in getting his replacement?
Either you trust Saleh/JD or you donr.if you don't then replace them
Post by: bojanglesman on January 12, 2023, 08:29:12 AM
I'll assume you're purely referring to the teams around the league were asking about MLFs availability aspectI'm just repeating how it was presented by the team. Who knows what actually happened. Who cares? Maybe he wanted to leave because he hated it here. Maybe it was Woody. Maybe it's Maybelline!
Because everything else suggests Woody was meddling and forced it
If Saleh is able to go out and find another buddy buddy of his that runs a similar offense I think this ends up being a neutral to good move.
If this ends up another arranged marriage, ala Gase/Greg Williams. Who the freak knows how it turns out. Especially if we do what others have mentioned by bringing in a guy that could replace Saleh in a year or so
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 08:30:42 AM
I think caring about Woody meddling is a valid argument. It's not like he's a brilliant football mind with a track record of success. I mean Heis has pointed out that Woody will probably want Rodgers. If JD and Saleh think Rodgers is the way to go and is good for Zach so be it. But I don't want Woody coming out and forcing it because he thinks it'll be good for ticket or jersey sales.
This is an entirely different scenario which I would agree, that he needs to stay out of personnel decisions.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:37:41 AM
This is an entirely different scenario which I would agree, that he needs to stay out of personnel decisions.
We'll be able to tell pretty quickly if he's involved.
If the Jets hire Hackett, I think that's Woody pushing for Aaron Rodgers.
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 08:40:42 AM
If you take our beat seriously (which no one should), the only reason LaFleur left is because Aaron Wilson reported he was fired and then NFL teams started asking if they could have him...*adjusts tinfoil hat*
An absolutely ridiculous narrative that was clearly leaked by LaFleur's agent.
Robert Saleh knew it was time for a change. They tried to blame it on the quarterback at first (rightfully so) but then the wheels completely fell off after they made a change at the position. There was only one person to blame at that point.
The Jets intentionally leaked a false report to Wilson to gauge the reaction then decided to fire him when it was mostly positive.
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 08:42:22 AM
We'll be able to tell pretty quickly if he's involved.Considering the theory that Denver did this to entice Rodgers and it didn't work, that would be kind of funny.
If the Jets hire Hackett, I think that's Woody pushing for Aaron Rodgers.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:42:25 AM
*adjusts tinfoil hat*
The Jets intentionally leaked a false report to Wilson to gauge the reaction then decided to fire him when it was mostly positive.
Woody: I don't care what you think, Robert. We'll let JetsTwitter decide!
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 08:42:28 AM
I think caring about Woody meddling is a valid argument. It's not like he's a brilliant football mind with a track record of success. I mean Heis has pointed out that Woody will probably want Rodgers. If JD and Saleh think Rodgers is the way to go and is good for Zach so be it. But I don't want Woody coming out and forcing it because he thinks it'll be good for ticket or jersey sales.
And if Woody is willing to meddle in getting rid of MLF, is Woody willing to meddle in getting his replacement?
Either you trust Saleh/JD or you donr.if you don't then replace them
woody did the right thing
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 08:43:02 AM
Woody: I don't care what you think, Robert. We'll let JetsTwitter decide!I wouldn't put it past him.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 12, 2023, 08:44:01 AM
If I went 3 weeks without doing my job, my boss' boss would demand I be fired too. Even if Woody interfered here, no one can fault him.
And let's stop the "no one's gonna want the job" narrative. We go through this every 2 years around here in regard to the HC job. There are 32 OC jobs total. There are hundreds of people who'd love one of them. Not one of them believes he'd do a bad job and get himself fired.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:44:33 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 08:45:34 AM
woody did the right thing
You can like the move without liking the process
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2023, 08:46:26 AM
We went 3 games without a TD.
If I went 3 weeks without doing my job, my boss' boss would demand I be fired too. Even if Woody interfered here, no one can fault him.
And let's stop the "no one's gonna want the job" narrative. We go through this every 2 years around here in regard to the HC job. There are 32 OC jobs total. There are hundreds of people who'd love one of them. Not one of them believes he'd do a bad job and get himself fired.
There were 32 OC jobs total back when this organization willingly hired Dowell freaking Loggains
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 08:46:34 AM
We went 3 games without a TD.
If I went 3 weeks without doing my job, my boss' boss would demand I be fired too. Even if Woody interfered here, no one can fault him.
And let's stop the "no one's gonna want the job" narrative. We go through this every 2 years around here in regard to the HC job. There are 32 OC jobs total. There are hundreds of people who'd love one of them. Not one of them believes he'd do a bad job and get himself fired.
I've officially applied and will "Ask Madden" to decide which play to run. Pretty sure the outcome can't be any worse than what we saw this year
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 12, 2023, 08:47:02 AM
Let's hope that 1JD got some footage of LaFleur packing up his gigantic monitor
I'd love to watch back-to-back with a video of Maccagnan slowly putting each of his coffee cups in the trash.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 08:47:21 AM
Let's hope that 1JD got some footage of LaFleur packing up his gigantic monitor
Only to have Jets security approach him and say "Sorry Mike, that's team property"
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:53:22 AM
I'd love to watch back-to-back with a video of Maccagnan slowly putting each of his coffee cups in the trash.
We all know he didn't throw those cups away
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 08:53:26 AM
I'd love to watch back-to-back with a video of Maccagnan slowly putting each of his coffee cups in the trash.The real reason he had all those cups.
https://youtu.be/KUzGrzsYqH4
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 08:53:50 AM
You can like the move without liking the processBusiness owner fires employee because employee didn't produce favorable results.
Seems like a normal process to me.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 08:58:41 AM
Business owner fires employee because employee didn't produce favorable results.
Seems like a normal process to me.
So you think it's a normal process in the NFL for owners to override coaches coordinator decisions?
This is a moot argument as its done. And at this point the process of replacing him is more important of the process that got rid of him
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 09:07:00 AM
So you think it's a normal process in the NFL for owners to override coaches coordinator decisions?
This is a moot argument as its done. And at this point the process of replacing him is more important of the process that got rid of him
I think if i'm an owner and i don't see the result that i expect after a given amount of time...remember, MLF had 2 seasons here with little to no improvement from the offense. You damn right i'm initiating the executive order. Especially after seeing other teams turn it around in a single season (Miami, NYG, Detroit, etc)
And he confessed to ruining our franchise QB.
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 09:09:56 AM
If you take our beat seriously (which no one should), the only reason LaFleur left is because Aaron Wilson reported he was fired and then NFL teams started asking if they could have him...
An absolutely ridiculous narrative that was clearly leaked by LaFleur's agent.
Robert Saleh knew it was time for a change. They tried to blame it on the quarterback at first (rightfully so) but then the wheels completely fell off after they made a change at the position. There was only one person to blame at that point.
I think you're drawing a line that doesn't exist between the Wilson report and teams calling. It was clear before the season even ended that MLF's position was at least going to be considered, they wouldn't have needed a random reporter on Twitter to alert them to his potential availability and it's quite feasible that teams could have called him to say that if he needed a new job they were open to talking to him. He's clearly struggled as an OC but that doesn't mean he can't do any job in the NFL.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 09:18:02 AM
Honestly, who freaking cares if Woody meddled? It's his team, our offense was dogshit and IF he forced the move, good. It was the right decision for the team.There is no way to spin Woody meddling as a good thing, even if he satisfied some fans' bloodlust. Irsay and Jerry have won Super Bowls. Woody oversees the worst franchise in the NFL over the last 12 years.
We're acting like Woody is the equivalent of Jim Irsay or Jerry Jones...which I don't think he is.
MLF did a bad enough job where firing him made sense. All I hope for is that there is a plan, and this isn't just firing LaFleur because Woody wanted a scapegoat, which is what I think probably happened.
I'm not sad MLF is gone. I just don't trust this franchise to make the right moves. Virtually every coordinator the Jets have had in my lifetime has been hated by the fanbse. I assume whoever we hire will just be next in a long line of guys we fire in a couple of years because they didn't have a QB.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 09:21:04 AM
I think you're drawing a line that doesn't exist between the Wilson report and teams calling. It was clear before the season even ended that MLF's position was at least going to be considered, they wouldn't have needed a random reporter on Twitter to alert them to his potential availability and it's quite feasible that teams could have called him to say that if he needed a new job they were open to talking to him. He's clearly struggled as an OC but that doesn't mean he can't do any job in the NFL.I think there are 2 likely scenarios with the first one being more likely.
- Woody made up his mind to fire him and it got leaked before they were able to put the proper spin/damage control for Saleh's friend in MLF.
- There was internal fighting on whether or not to keep him. One reporter heard one side of the story and leaked it. Other teams started talkng to MLF, and it ended up becoming a mutual decision where MLF saw the writing on the wall and left before he could get officially fired.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 09:24:09 AM
There is no way to spin Woody meddling as a good thing, even if he satisfied some fans' bloodlust. Irsay and Jerry have won Super Bowls. Woody oversees the worst franchise in the NFL over the last 12 years.
MLF did a bad enough job where firing him made sense. All I hope for is that there is a plan, and this isn't just firing LaFleur because Woody wanted a scapegoat, which is what I think probably happened.
I'm not sad MLF is gone. I just don't trust this franchise to make the right moves. Virtually every coordinator the Jets have had in my lifetime has been hated by the fanbse. I assume whoever we hire will just be next in a long line of guys we fire in a couple of years because they didn't have a QB.
Woody is fine. He made the right call...meddling or not.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 09:25:34 AM
1. He's been a terrible OC. Why would teams call him? To take a lessor role...doesn't make sense.
2. Every time a team wants to talk to a member of a coaching staff, they have to ask permission, and someone like Rapp will report it
This is nothing more than a spin to save him face.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 09:26:43 AM
There is no way to spin Woody meddling as a good thing, even if he satisfied some fans' bloodlust. Irsay and Jerry have won Super Bowls. Woody oversees the worst franchise in the NFL over the last 12 years.
MLF did a bad enough job where firing him made sense. All I hope for is that there is a plan, and this isn't just firing LaFleur because Woody wanted a scapegoat, which is what I think probably happened.
I'm not sad MLF is gone. I just don't trust this franchise to make the right moves. Virtually every coordinator the Jets have had in my lifetime has been hated by the fanbse. I assume whoever we hire will just be next in a long line of guys we fire in a couple of years because they didn't have a QB.
The plan is to get a new OC to replace the one that was under performing. To execute said plan, you must dismiss the person in the current role.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 09:27:41 AM
The plan is to get a new OC to replace the one that was under performing. To execute said plan, you must dismiss the person in the current role.
Do you sell your car before thinking about how you're going to replace it?
Because that's all DS was saying
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 09:32:34 AM
Which means this wasn't some planned calculated move. See: Woody Johnson
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 09:34:41 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 09:35:53 AM
And before the last 24-36 hours it sounded an awfully like Saleh was set on keeping MLF
As soon as Saleh spoke and didn't commit to MLF after the Miami game, I knew he was going to be replaced.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 10:01:00 AM
I think it's also entirely possible that it doesn't really have anything to do with Woody. If we're into baseless conjecturing, and we clearly are, it seems not wildly impossible that Joe could have had the conversation with Saleh of "listen, I've spoken with a few agents representing offensive FAs who could really help us and their clients are all of the view that they're not really interested in playing in this scheme". If the OC is preventing you from making the roster additions you need to get better, then that's going to make the decision a lot easier.That seems like a massive stretch to think other teams' offensive free agents even know who the Jets' offensive coordinator is, much less have such a strong opinion on him.
That's like saying maybe Saleh hated LaFleur and Douglas and Woody wanted to keep him, but Saleh won out. That's not true either, but why not.
The Woody conjecture is based on what plenty of reporters have implied.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 10:07:29 AM
The Woody conjecture is based on what plenty of reporters have implied.
The same reporters that were outscooped by someone that works in Houston
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2023, 10:33:51 AM
The same reporters that were outscooped by someone that works in Houston
MLF next Texans HC confirmed
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 10:52:26 AM
@BigTicket73
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19m
This is the best i have felt mentally in a really really really long time
I'm assuming he volunteered to drive MLF to the airport.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 10:59:21 AM
Trending Topic 🤷🏾♂️
@BigTicket73
·
19m
This is the best i have felt mentally in a really really really long time
I'm assuming he volunteered to drive MLF to the airport.
Any word on if he blew out his knee on the way?
He was a worse draft pick than MLF was an OC
Post by: Coach K on January 12, 2023, 11:02:53 AM
Any word on if he blew out his knee on the way?Nah he was good when on field . MLF has 1 game in TEN lol
He was a worse draft pick than MLF was an OC
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 11:04:10 AM
Any word on if he blew out his knee on the way?
He was a worse draft pick than MLF was an OC
he's had some bad injury luck. But if he can't stay healthy this upcoming season, we may finally agree on something.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 11:04:32 AM
Nah he was good when on field . MLF has 1 game in TEN lolMekhi Becton played 1 game with Mike LaFleur.
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 11:05:43 AM
(https://i.redd.it/6z8g2q70nlba1.jpg)
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 12, 2023, 11:07:07 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 11:08:06 AM
I'm half convinced that Chad Johnson would be the right mentor for Elijah Moore.
"eat sausage mcmuffins every day, Elijah"
profit.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 11:08:43 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
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2m
Johnson on whether they did everything right way in developing Wilson: "No, I don’t think we did everything the right way, no." Mentions they could've had a vet QB ahead of him. "I think we could’ve done a better job, for sure + we will do a better job next year." #Jets
this isn't Woody "meddling"...this is Woody making a sound decision for once.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 11:10:21 AM
Sounds like he's criticizing Douglas for not getting a vet QB for Wilson to sit behind or even compete with.
this isn't Woody "meddling"...this is Woody making a sound decision for once.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 11:12:45 AM
Sounds like he's criticizing Douglas for not getting a vet QB for Wilson to sit behind or even compete with.
No..it sounds like there was some discord regarding MLF's status with the team, and Woody provided some much needed clarity.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2023, 11:15:53 AM
No..it sounds like there was some discord regarding MLF's status with the team, and Woody provided some much needed clarity.
This gives me great confidence in our current GM and HC
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 11:18:43 AM
This gives me great confidence in our current GM and HC
Time to earn the paycheck, fellas.
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 11:28:14 AM
That seems like a massive stretch to think other teams' offensive free agents even know who the Jets' offensive coordinator is, much less have such a strong opinion on him.
Why would you think that players don't talk to each other through the season? Most will have played with and be friends with players on other teams from college or other NFL teams. I am friends with and talk to former colleagues all the time, I know a lot about how my competition are run, how they go to market and how well liked the management are, and my industry is nothing like as public or high profile as football. I think you're doing players a massive disservice to think that they don't know anything about other teams, especially those who are about to hit free agency.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 11:30:22 AM
Sounds like he's criticizing Douglas for not getting a vet QB for Wilson to sit behind or even compete with.
It absolutely sounds like this.
He's basically telling them to fix it or else.
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 11:31:17 AM
Why would you think that players don't talk to each other through the season? Most will have played with and be friends with players on other teams from college or other NFL teams. I am friends with and talk to former colleagues all the time, I know a lot about how my competition are run, how they go to market and how well liked the management are, and my industry is nothing like as public or high profile as football. I think you're doing players a massive disservice to think that they don't know anything about other teams, especially those who are about to hit free agency.Nah, it's probably like this instead:
https://collider.com/bill-murray-garfield-the-coen-brothers/
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 12, 2023, 11:32:32 AM
Sounds like he's criticizing Douglas for not getting a vet QB for Wilson to sit behind or even compete with.
This is 100% what that comment was.
Post by: reuben on January 12, 2023, 12:02:20 PM
Nah, it's probably like this instead:
https://collider.com/bill-murray-garfield-the-coen-brothers/
I had a dream last night that Bill Murray was starring in a Beetlejuice remake.
Post by: steves850 on January 12, 2023, 12:30:43 PM
I had a dream last night that Bill Murray was starring in a Beetlejuice remake.
They are making a sequel (https://deadline.com/2022/02/beetlejuice-2-brad-pitts-plan-b-boards-sequel-in-early-development-1234962240/) so maybe that's where your dream came from?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 01:35:18 PM
Trending Topic 🤷🏾♂️
@BigTicket73
·
19m
This is the best i have felt mentally in a really really really long time
I'm assuming he volunteered to drive MLF to the airport.
Not for nothing, but given how little he's contributed on the field, he should really STFU and stay off Twitter
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 01:40:43 PM
Not for nothing, but given how little he's contributed on the field, he should really STFU and stay off Twitter
i love how people just roast players for sustaining injuries. I'm sure Becton dislocated his kneecap just to spite you.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 01:41:31 PM
Not for nothing, but given how little he's contributed on the field, he should really STFU and stay off Twitter
LaFleur treated him like excrement. It says more about MLF than Becton.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 01:45:02 PM
i love how people just roast players for sustaining injuries. I'm sure Becton dislocated his kneecap just to spite you.
Zach Wilson is the only reason people forget how much of a megabust Becton has been
And none of us are weighing this guy weekly. But there's been concerns about his weight and his knee health. So how much of factor has his weight/conditioning been in him always being hurt
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 02:03:34 PM
Zach Wilson is the only reason people forget how much of a megabust Becton has been
And none of us are weighing this guy weekly. But there's been concerns about his weight and his knee health. So how much of factor has his weight/conditioning been in him always being hurt
He suffered injuries. Doesn't mean he's a bust. Otherwise why would you want to bring Jimmy G here?
Becton has this year to show he can stay healthy. He's shown at the end of the year presser that he's got his weight under control. He's not to be trusted, but he's actively trying to turn the ship around.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 02:16:20 PM
He suffered injuries. Doesn't mean he's a bust. Otherwise why would you want to bring Jimmy G here?
Becton has this year to show he can stay healthy. He's shown at the end of the year presser that he's got his weight under control. He's not to be trusted, but he's actively trying to turn the ship around.
Becton being a 1st round pick who has not supplied 1st round production means he is a bust. You can argue that he hasnt even offered 3rd or 4th round production, making him a very big bust
Jimmy G is unquestionably injury prone, but he's also been pretty productive. Becton has not been productive. He hasn't existed
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 02:21:32 PM
He suffered injuries. Doesn't mean he's a bust. Otherwise why would you want to bring Jimmy G here?If you are taken in the 1st round, and you don't produce, you are a bust. There are levels to being busts. But probably the biggest concern about Becton was could he stay healthy with that frame? And he hasn't. It's not like we took a guy with zero injury concerns and he immediately tore his Achilles. When you take a guy with injury concerns and he gets hurt, you kind of get what you expected.
Becton has this year to show he can stay healthy. He's shown at the end of the year presser that he's got his weight under control. He's not to be trusted, but he's actively trying to turn the ship around.
Training camp is over 6 months away. We will see what kind of shape he is in then, how he looks in camp, and whether he can stay healthy throughout camp. I'm not writing him off, but so far, he has been a bust.
Garoppolo has been an average to above average QB his whole career. Obviously he has injury concerns - that's why I think he would likely come cheaper than most QBs of his caliber normally would in free agency.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 02:25:39 PM
If you are taken in the 1st round, and you don't produce, you are a bust. There are levels to being busts. But probably the biggest concern about Becton was could he stay healthy with that frame? And he hasn't. It's not like we took a guy with zero injury concerns and he immediately tore his Achilles. When you take a guy with injury concerns and he gets hurt, you kind of get what you expected.
Training camp is over 6 months away. We will see what kind of shape he is in then, how he looks in camp, and whether he can stay healthy throughout camp. I'm not writing him off, but so far, he has been a bust.
Garoppolo has been an average to above average QB his whole career. Obviously he has injury concerns - that's why I think he would likely come cheaper than most QBs of his caliber normally would in free agency.
You like to label players "busts" 5 mins into their careers.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 02:26:39 PM
You like to label players "busts" 5 mins into their careers.
Unfortunately it took Becton 3 years to play about 5 minutes
Regardless two key measures of the success of a first round pick. Is he worth using the 5th year option on? In his case absolutely freaking not
And will be get a second contract? Very likely also not
Best case scenario is he somehow gets his excrement together to the point that we decide to offer him a one year prove it deal but I'm not sure he will make it to that point.
But it's very difficult for anyone to make an argument that Becton hasn't been a bust.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 02:28:57 PM
Unfortunately it took Becton 3 years to play about 5 minutes
He'll have this season to prove he belongs. And i'm totally fine going OL in the first round.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 02:32:19 PM
He'll have this season to prove he belongs. And i'm totally fine going OL in the first round.
And then what?
Do you tag the guy giving a excrement ton of money to a guy whose missed 65% of his career games? Do you give him a significant contract?
I think Bectons in a situation where it's incredibly difficult for him to be anything but a bust. I just don't see how you can give him a contract at this point. Even if he plays very good, he's just way too freaking risky to make a long term investment in
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 02:33:03 PM
And then what?
Do you tag the guy giving a excrement ton of money to a guy whose missed 65% of his career games? Do you give him a significant contract?
I think Bectons in a situation where it's incredibly difficult for him to be anything but a bust. I just don't see how you can give him a contract at this point
let it play out.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 03:14:19 PM
LaFleur treated him like excrement. It says more about MLF than Becton.
And that is likely the case...I am just not a fan of players airing out grievances on social media...especially ones that haven't done much in their careers thus far.
Hope he can actually contribute this year, but can't count on it.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 03:16:23 PM
And then what?
Do you tag the guy giving a excrement ton of money to a guy whose missed 65% of his career games? Do you give him a significant contract?
I think Bectons in a situation where it's incredibly difficult for him to be anything but a bust. I just don't see how you can give him a contract at this point. Even if he plays very good, he's just way too freaking risky to make a long term investment in
Between this convo and then the prospects of having to pay a veteran QB, your head might explode with all the cap calculations
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 03:16:50 PM
But probably the biggest concern about Becton was could he stay healthy with that frame? And he hasn't. It's not like we took a guy with zero injury concerns and he immediately tore his Achilles. When you take a guy with injury concerns and he gets hurt, you kind of get what you expected.
Revisionist history.
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
let it play out.No. We, personally, need to decide what to do with Becton right now and we need to be upset about it.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 03:19:21 PM
i love how people just roast players for sustaining injuries. I'm sure Becton dislocated his kneecap just to spite you.
Not roasting him...just don't like him taking to Twitter about the MLF stuff. I feel like he hasn't earned the right to be douchy...could be a me thing
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 03:20:05 PM
How is it revisionist history? Everyone knew his weight was potentially an issue. Google any NFL Draft profile of Becton.
Revisionist history.
I hope he has a big bounceback year, but anyone with eyes knew that his weight was potentially an issue. But his upside was through the roof.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 08:29:22 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 08:30:34 PM
What are the odds the Patriots interview him for their OC vacancy?We're not that lucky
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 08:38:15 PM
We're not that lucky
Maybe we'll be lucky enoguh to bring in Matt Patricia to replace him
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 08:40:19 PM
Maybe we'll be lucky enoguh to bring in Matt Patricia to replace himNormally I'd chuckle at this...but I never know when you're serious.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 11:43:30 PM
Quote
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
The #Jets allowed Mike LaFleur as OC to explore other opportunities and heading to the #Rams in the same role is foremost among those potential opportunities he could snag soon.
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2023, 07:18:34 AM
translation: big brother Matt pulled a few more strings with his inner circle to make sure baby bro can feed his family. Lafleur is now the white Eric Bieniemy.
Post by: Coach K on January 15, 2023, 08:19:25 AM
Mekhi Becton played 1 game with Mike LaFleur.MLF coached 2 seasons too many
Post by: Coach K on January 15, 2023, 08:19:59 AM
It absolutely sounds like this.Yeah
He's basically telling them to fix it or else.
And he's not wrong
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 15, 2023, 11:05:18 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2023, 11:07:20 AM
McVay runs the offense there, so MLF is going to LA to get him coffee and Red Bull
(https://media.tenor.com/Xel69RkMp4cAAAAM/correct-sir.gif)
Post by: dcm1602 on January 15, 2023, 11:20:08 AM
I'm sure someone will probably say it has to do with super secret information on the 49ers or something like that
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2023, 11:24:28 AM
If MLF is that bad, why would someone like Sean Mccvay jump on it and hire him so quickly? And not even at a lower position
I'm sure someone will probably say it has to do with super secret information on the 49ers or something like that
if you knew how to read posts you'd learn that Matt Lafleur and Sean McVay are BFFs....so of course Mike is gonna get gifted another opportunity. MLF is an OC in name only, everyone on the planet (minus you, of course) knows McVay calls the plays for the Rams. What MLF "might do"...is actually learn how to playcall under McVay.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 15, 2023, 11:38:02 AM
But if he's OC under McCay he will more than likely be a HC in the next 5 years
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2023, 11:42:50 AM
I'm not going to exaggerate MLF like some people on here will negatively exaggerate him. He was mediocre
But if he's OC under McCay he will more than likely be a HC in the next 5 years
lol mediocre.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 15, 2023, 11:43:00 AM
I'm not going to exaggerate MLF like some people on here will negatively exaggerate him. He was mediocreOf the Jets
But if he's OC under McCay he will more than likely be a HC in the next 5 years
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 15, 2023, 02:14:29 PM
if you knew how to read posts you'd learn that Matt Lafleur and Sean McVay are BFFs....so of course Mike is gonna get gifted another opportunity. MLF is an OC in name only, everyone on the planet (minus you, of course) knows McVay calls the plays for the Rams. What MLF "might do"...is actually learn how to playcall under McVay.The previous 2 OCs under McVay both got head coaching jobs soon after (Matt LaFleur and Kevin O'Connell). Even a QB coach under McVay got an HC job (Zac Taylor).
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2023, 02:19:48 PM
The previous 2 OCs under McVay both got head coaching jobs soon after (Matt LaFleur and Kevin O'Connell). Even a QB coach under McVay got an HC job (Zac Taylor).Mike better pay attention to his new daddy then, right?
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 15, 2023, 02:26:54 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2023, 02:28:58 PM
It would be a very similar path to Kevin O'Connell. Both were considered rising stars on offense. Both took OC jobs with teams who drafted QB busts (Haskins). Both were fired for not creating good offenses with their crappy QBs. We will see what happens next for MLF. He didn't do a good job here, but I trust the Rams a lot more than the Jets with some of these decisions.MLF absolutely wasn't ready when Saleh brought him here. Maybe he learns a thing or two under McVay...and good for him if he does.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 15, 2023, 02:39:37 PM
MLF absolutely wasn't ready when Saleh brought him here. Maybe he learns a thing or two under McVay...and good for him if he does.Perhaps not, but I was fine giving him more time.
All I ask is there was a plan to replace MLF with a good candidate, and it wasn't just a change because Woody wanted blood. That's not a good reason to make a change. If the Rams hire MLF, I view that as a slight negative because I think Sean McVay has a much better eye for offensive talent than Robert Wood Johnson IV.
I just look forward to whenever we hire our new OC so we can start to look forward to 2023.
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2023, 03:39:37 PM
Perhaps not, but I was fine giving him more time.Nah...Woody did the needful.
All I ask is there was a plan to replace MLF with a good candidate, and it wasn't just a change because Woody wanted blood. That's not a good reason to make a change. If the Rams hire MLF, I view that as a slight negative because I think Sean McVay has a much better eye for offensive talent than Robert Wood Johnson IV.
I just look forward to whenever we hire our new OC so we can start to look forward to 2023.
Post by: Coach K on January 16, 2023, 07:22:14 AM
Can we do that .
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 16, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
Perhaps not, but I was fine giving him more time.
All I ask is there was a plan to replace MLF with a good candidate, and it wasn't just a change because Woody wanted blood. That's not a good reason to make a change. If the Rams hire MLF, I view that as a slight negative because I think Sean McVay has a much better eye for offensive talent than Robert Wood Johnson IV.
I just look forward to whenever we hire our new OC so we can start to look forward to 2023.
It literally can't get any worse than MLF, unless you bring Rich Kotite out of retirement and hire him as OC.
I still can't understand how anyone watched our anemic offense the last 3 games and think the MLF deserved to stay...it's unbelievable.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 09:24:19 AM
It literally can't get any worse than MLF, unless you bring Rich Kotite out of retirement and hire him as OC.
I still can't understand how anyone watched our anemic offense the last 3 games and think the MLF deserved to stay...it's unbelievable.
This has not once been true for a coach leaving this team.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2023, 12:12:06 PM
This has not once been true for a coach leaving this team.Adam Gase?
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 12:57:19 PM
Adam Gase?
Depends on if you think Eric Bieniemy is as bad of a coaching candidate as this board believes he is. He was definitely someone we were interviewing.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2023, 01:03:18 PM
Depends on if you think Eric Bieniemy is as bad of a coaching candidate as this board believes he is. He was definitely someone we were interviewing.I would have 100% replaced Gase with Coach Beans
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 01:04:58 PM
I would have 100% replaced Gase with Coach Beans
We still haven't gone 0-16 as a franchise. That coach is out there somewhere and we probably interviewed at least one of them already.
Post by: delavan on January 16, 2023, 01:27:12 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 01:30:23 PM
As the season wore down it was a perfect shltstorm of MLF combined with an injury-depleted OL. Add the Breece Hall injury to the OL (and QB) mess the Jets offense was reduced to flying with one wing, i.e. in circles and going nowhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H48j3KGBomU
Post by: Gorilla on January 16, 2023, 01:38:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H48j3KGBomU
Great response, even greater song.
Post by: delavan on January 16, 2023, 06:39:53 PM
The closing scene music from Boogie Nights - nice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H48j3KGBomU
Was going to include ELO as an ‘honorable mention’ behind BLT/GTO/BTO in the Obit thread
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 19, 2023, 11:06:12 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 11:08:17 AM
Joe Namath on WFAN on the MLF move: "Glad there was a change"
my mf dawg
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2023, 07:13:31 PM
VSIN's Michael Lombardi says he's heard Mike LaFleur has landed an OC job and is looking for a line coach.
January 19, 2023 7:50pm EST
A little weird it's known he's looking for an OL coach but not known what team he's on
But okay
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 19, 2023, 08:04:17 PM
Post by: delavan on January 20, 2023, 07:47:04 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2023, 09:31:57 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 21, 2023, 04:15:10 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 21, 2023, 10:17:49 AM
I don't see how the Bucs are a more promising job opening than us. They have a excrement HC who could be fired after a year. They're in salary cap hell. They went 8-9 WITH BRADY. Yeah, they have the receivers, but Wilson did better than both of them without a QB. Sometimes they like to pick on us just because we're the Jets.
I think there's definitely an element of us "being the Jets" just like Cinci was the Bungles until they started winning.
But I think part of the lack of appeal here is that on top of the issues like hot-seat staff, lack of a QB, etc. you also have the brutal media here. NY is great town to be great in, but it's an awful place to not be great.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 21, 2023, 10:19:32 AM
I don't see how the Bucs are a more promising job opening than us. They have a excrement HC who could be fired after a year. They're in salary cap hell. They went 8-9 WITH BRADY. Yeah, they have the receivers, but Wilson did better than both of them without a QB. Sometimes they like to pick on us just because we're the Jets.Plus, who wants to follow Brady? That's a recipe for disappointment.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 27, 2023, 10:56:18 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 11:05:34 AM
MLF lands in LA as Rams OC i.e. McVays Personal Assistant
White Eric Bieniemy
Post by: Heismanberg on January 27, 2023, 11:05:57 AM
White Eric Bieniemy
Eric Wieniemy
Post by: bojanglesman on January 27, 2023, 11:06:57 AM
Post by: Jumbo on January 27, 2023, 11:19:03 AM
Post by: Badger on January 27, 2023, 11:36:50 AM
White Eric Bieniemy(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230127/c0d39851b967c562bd493cbe8e945ea1.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on January 27, 2023, 11:46:24 AM
He's fine at play design.
This might be his most glaring weakness
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 11:47:05 AM
He's fine at play design. No play calling required in LA. He should do well.Lol what
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 27, 2023, 12:12:28 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 12:28:55 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230127/c0d39851b967c562bd493cbe8e945ea1.jpg)
4 honks
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 12:29:30 PM
He’ll never work again!
Sean McVay will give him a coloring book and some crayons.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 27, 2023, 12:35:13 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 27, 2023, 12:52:40 PM
A combination of cronyism and nepotism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pvhXzfNbyxA
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 27, 2023, 03:46:49 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 03:58:04 PM
0% chance at becoming an OC anytime soon and no offensive mind worth his salt would ever want to hire him.You should look up what nepotism means...
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 27, 2023, 04:01:55 PM
You should look up what nepotism means...Going from LaFleur to Hackett/Kubiak
Post by: Gorilla on January 27, 2023, 04:07:50 PM
That's one of the biggest steps...the other big step in the NFL is having really good players to coach. It's so amazing how the better the players you have, the more spectacular and hire-able you look.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 19, 2023, 01:19:19 PM
Should have kept MLF and let him cook
Post by: Johnny English on May 19, 2023, 01:37:54 PM
https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1659574128154935296?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Should have kept MLF and let him cook
Only 5 minutes late, not bad for you.
Post by: MBGreen on May 19, 2023, 01:46:59 PM
Only 5 minutes late, not bad for you.
lol
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2024, 02:02:21 PM
He'll end up as a quality control intern somewhere.
you think he's getting an OC job somewhere else in the NFL? Nobody is going to let him anywhere near their QB.
How many times do you have to hear this....he did a BAD job here. He's not on the top of anyone else's wishlist. That tweet from Hughes is horseshit.
I'd wager a excrement ton of money his next gig will NOT be as an OC...unless we're talking college
If someone hires him as anything other than a WR coach...
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2024, 02:02:52 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2024, 02:03:36 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 02:03:56 PM
I wish i had an older brother to find me OC jobs.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2024, 02:04:41 PM
I have mixed feelings about this, mostly because I'm skeptical of our ability to bring in an upgrade.
This is my evergreen response to almost every firing that takes place here
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2024, 02:05:38 PM
I wish i had an older brother to find me OC jobs.
I was told he would never get another OC job and that no one would let him near their QB. Did you forget who his brother was?
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 02:06:13 PM
This is my evergreen response to almost every firing that takes place here
if you haven't figured it out yet...coaches/GMs come here to die.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2024, 02:07:34 PM
He’ll never work again!
Gotta call myself out too, fair is fair
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 02:08:04 PM
I was told he would never get another OC job and that no one would let him near their QB. Did you forget who his brother was?
I'm sure MLF has had a profound influence on Stafford...a Super Bowl winner, Super bowl MVP and a former 1st overall pick. All before MLF made his first cup of coffee for McVay.
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 02:08:53 PM
Gotta call myself out too, fair is fair
My takes age like cheese here, doesn't mean they're wrong at the time.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2024, 02:10:55 PM
My takes age like cheese here, doesn't mean they're wrong at the time.
He had a job like 2 weeks later lmao
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 02:11:12 PM
He had a job like 2 weeks later lmao
nepotism SZN
McVay and the Lafleurs are all mud budz
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 02:13:28 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 04, 2024, 02:20:34 PM
Firing LaFleur is fine. Offense wasn't good under his watch. But I'm pretty confident many of the people who have been begging for MLF to get fired will just want the new OC fired by December.
Smalls the Soothsayer
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2024, 02:27:23 PM
We'll get the best candidates. Relax.
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 02:44:22 PM
Why would Woody do this?
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 02:46:20 PM
#YoureWelcome
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2024, 02:50:10 PM
Don't worry SFD...ill be there to calm your funbags during the next hiring cycle too
#YoureWelcome
You said we would improve on Bowles then we hired Gase
My funbags haven’t been calm since
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 03:00:32 PM
You said we would improve on Bowles then we hired GaseI'm here for you buddy
My funbags haven’t been calm since
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 04, 2024, 04:15:57 PM
Seeing as we're dredging up old posts:Sometimes I get them right.
Smalls the Soothsayer
Firing MLF was clearly a mistake. We had a young OC with some promise and creativity. He failed developing Wilson, and he failed to coach the offense to a TD in the last 3 weeks, so firing him made some sense at the time. But Wilson probably just sucks, and the offense has been even worse without him.
It was pretty obvious that the Jets wouldn't be able to hire a good replacement with Saleh still running things, and that's exactly what happened. Hopefully, Rodgers comes back to make Hackett look good next year.
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2024, 04:39:03 PM
Sometimes I get them right.Firing MLF was not a mistake
Firing MLF was clearly a mistake. We had a young OC with some promise and creativity. He failed developing Wilson, and he failed to coach the offense to a TD in the last 3 weeks, so firing him made some sense at the time. But Wilson probably just sucks, and the offense has been even worse without him.
It was pretty obvious that the Jets wouldn't be able to hire a good replacement with Saleh still running things, and that's exactly what happened. Hopefully, Rodgers comes back to make Hackett look good next year.
Just like firing Hackett eventually...won't be one either.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 04, 2024, 04:47:36 PM
Hackett does too
Saleh missed twice
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 04, 2024, 05:38:23 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 04, 2024, 06:47:26 PM