Jet Offensive

New York Jets Football => ...And The Home Of The Jets => Topic started by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 03:15:32 PM

Title: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 03:15:32 PM
Inspired by this post in the game thread:

Has their honestly been a lower point for this franchise? Certainly not in the last 20 years.

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2019, 03:16:41 PM
Bring back Rex
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: steves850 on November 03, 2019, 03:19:16 PM
No. This is the lowest mainly because we had hope. Darnold was hands down the best QB prospect we've had. With Sanchez there was controversy whether he was franchise worthy. Not with Darnold. We are in legitimate risk of ruining the best prospect we've ever had.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2019, 03:20:28 PM
Not since Iíve been a fan
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2019, 03:25:09 PM
It wouldn't have been quite as bad if we didn't go into the season with hope.  Had a bunch of new players, offensive head coach for the first time in forever, what we thought was our franchise QB.

All burned down.

The saddest part is Darnold's regression. If you know you have a 22 year old franchise QB, the rest you can get over.  We the franchise QB we haven't had in 2 decades and excrement on him.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2019, 03:25:37 PM
I started following this team after the 1-15 season in the mid 90s.  I would say this season is the worst i've been a part of as a fan.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 03, 2019, 03:25:51 PM
'14 was the only time I've stopped watching mid-season, since I started to follow football in the early 2000s. At this point 4-12 would be a major overachievemenr for this team.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2019, 03:27:06 PM
I still think the 2005 team was the hardest to watch

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2019, 03:32:12 PM
What makes it extra worse is that we all got our hopes up due to having a potential franchise QB.  This team was supposed to be up and coming....but instead, we're worse than last year and trending in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2019, 03:32:20 PM
Quote
I've been covering the Jets for 31 years and I can say without any doubt this was one of their most embarrassing losses. Ever. This was the kind of loss that gets people fired and leads to off-season overhauls. Inexcusable.


Rich Cimini, ESPN Staff Writer
15m ago
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 03:33:19 PM
I still think the 2005 team was the hardest to watch
I think 2007 was worse. I remember being somewhat entertained by some of our losses in 2005.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 03:35:01 PM
2007 was also when most of us came to terms with the end of Chad too. That sucked.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
I actively didnt like the team at the end of 2016. That was an unlikable team with no hope.

This team has Darnold which is a double edged sword. On one hand, I have a reason to watch. On the other hand, watching us ruin him may be worse.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Gorilla on November 03, 2019, 03:47:26 PM
Top of my head, this is the worst since 95-96 Kotite days. Due to the disappointment and the fact that the best prospect we've ever drafted is regressing and being under-coached. Other seasons were bad, but there wasn't this dread that we could be watching a franchise-elevating QB slip through our fingers. The offensive line isn't bad....it is historically bad.

Gase is a glorified QB coach, nothing more. He's in so far over his head he can't even see the surface.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2019, 03:48:47 PM
Behind this OL Darnold might get enoguh concussions that he won't remember these past two seasons

Then hopefully he can start with a clean slate with a new offense
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2019, 03:49:24 PM
I can handle a lot as a Jets fan.  Losing doesn't faze me anymore.  But to finally have "the QB", then have him fucked by one season.....
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Gorilla on November 03, 2019, 03:53:06 PM
I can handle a lot as a Jets fan.  Losing doesn't faze me anymore.  But to finally have "the QB", then have him fucked by one season.....

This is me, 100%.
I'm used to losing seasons, but watching Sam the last 3 games is making me sad.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Pope on November 03, 2019, 03:54:59 PM
We should have another tailgate towards the end of the year but instead of going to the game we’ll all just kill ourselves
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2019, 03:55:39 PM
I can handle a lot as a Jets fan.  Losing doesn't faze me anymore.  But to finally have "the QB", then have him fucked by one season.....

One season in which we didn’t fire Duff, hired Gase, let Duff run the most important offseason in recent history, and then let Gase fire Duff. Complete organizational incompetence has led us to this point.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Gorilla on November 03, 2019, 03:59:05 PM
We should have another tailgate towards the end of the year but instead of going to the game weíll all just kill ourselves

lol, for real
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2019, 03:59:29 PM
We should have another tailgate towards the end of the year but instead of going to the game weíll all just kill ourselves


5 honks
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Jumbo on November 03, 2019, 04:01:45 PM
One season in which we didnít fire Duff, hired Gase, let Duff run the most important offseason in recent history, and then let Gase fire Duff. Complete organizational incompetence has led us to this point.

Woody > Chris
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 03, 2019, 04:03:41 PM
Woody > Chris

It seems that way, and how freaking ridiculous is that...
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2019, 04:05:08 PM
Don't worry guys, Sam had almost 70% completions today.  Whew.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on November 03, 2019, 04:23:46 PM
I started following this team after the 1-15 season in the mid 90s.  I would say this season is the worst i've been a part of as a fan.

2003 for me. Definitely my worst season ever.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: insanity on November 03, 2019, 04:54:29 PM
Don't worry guys, Sam had almost 70% completions today.  Whew.
I know you are being sarcastic, but Darnold didnt lose us this game.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: IATA on November 03, 2019, 05:05:33 PM
we are so awful, man.

can we just like, forfeit and save darnold the abuse?

or can someone hire some more dirty bitches and give him mono again or something?

who am i kidding, hes gonna play out his rookie deal, sign with a competent team and then perform.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 03, 2019, 06:20:20 PM
Two worst years I can remember were 1976 and 1995, this rivals them both halfway through.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Libero_2 on November 03, 2019, 06:36:34 PM
The Kotite era is obviously the worst record weíve had. This is on pace to match it.

I have no idea how we could beat Dallas and what the freak happened to the team since then?

I think 2005 was bad but that was understandable once Chad and Fiedler went down.

07 was rough, but not shockingly bad. 2014 was a disaster and might be the team Iíve hated the most because I simply had no interest in Geno and it just needed to freaking die.

This is the worst Iíve felt as a Jets fan ever as 95-96í was at its infancy and I barely remember it as I was just a kid.

If we ruin Sam I donít even know how one begins to get over it.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on November 03, 2019, 06:40:04 PM
Not since Iíve been a fan

Basically this
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2019, 06:40:26 PM
The Kotite era is obviously the worst record weíve had. This is on pace to match it.

I have no idea how we could beat Dallas and what the freak happened to the team since then?

I think 2005 was bad but that was understandable once Chad and Fiedler went down.

07 was rough, but not shockingly bad. 2014 was a disaster and might be the team Iíve hated the most because I simply had no interest in Geno and it just needed to freaking die.

This is the worst Iíve felt as a Jets fan ever as 95-96í was at its infancy and I barely remember it as I was just a kid.

If we ruin Sam I donít even know how one begins to get over it.

I think the Dallas game was a combination of this team being super fired up having Sam back and Dallas being absolutely annihilated by injuries (they were missing essentially their entire OL two corners and number 1 wideout), plus possibly underestimating us.

We have had some more injuries as well (ie beachem) and the Patriots skull freaking Sam's confidence.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 06:46:29 PM
Just a rundown of the worst seasons in my fan history, seasons that just sucked from start to finish:

2005: 4-12, supposed to take the next step after 2004's success, cut down by injury early in the season. Silver lining: hoping Chad would return from injury the next year.

2007: 4-12, supposed to take the next step after 2006's success, seeing Chad fizzle out at the end of his Jets tenure. Silver lining: young core of Brick/Mangold/Revis/Harris.

2014: 4-12, some people expected us to build on 2013's surprise 8-8 record, instead we wildly underperformed. Michael Vick. End of the Rex era. Silver lining: can't remember one.

2016: 5-11, made very little improvement to the roster that went 10-6 the year before and everything fell apart. Fitztragic. Revis not trying. Silver lining: thinking we could finally commit to a true teardown and rebuild.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2019, 06:56:56 PM
Whichever year where Kerley was our best WR.  That's about as bad a skill position roster as I've seen.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2019, 07:00:37 PM
Just a rundown of the worst seasons in my fan history, seasons that just sucked from start to finish:

2005: 4-12, supposed to take the next step after 2004's success, cut down by injury early in the season. Silver lining: hoping Chad would return from injury the next year.

2007: 4-12, supposed to take the next step after 2006's success, seeing Chad fizzle out at the end of his Jets tenure. Silver lining: young core of Brick/Mangold/Revis/Harris.

2014: 4-12, some people expected us to build on 2013's surprise 8-8 record, instead we wildly underperformed. Michael Vick. End of the Rex era. Silver lining: can't remember one.

2016: 5-11, made very little improvement to the roster that went 10-6 the year before and everything fell apart. Fitztragic. Revis not trying. Silver lining: thinking we could finally commit to a true teardown and rebuild.

Thoughts?

Very accurate, and I feel like I can actually compare these seasons since I was around for all of them. None of those even feel close to as bad as this one. The difference? I never believed in a Jets QB like I do with Sam Darnold. It’s heartbreaking to watch when it feels like we finally have the QB of the future in place but the organization isn’t giving him a chance to succeed.

The sequence of events to start the season really makes this the worst. Duff being retained, Gase getting hired, the sequence that led to Duff’s firing. I’ve never felt good about this season at any point in time.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: WD40 on November 03, 2019, 07:14:20 PM
The very end of the '96 1-15 season.  Hugh Douglas telling the world he was going to kill Ty Detmer.  Sacking Ty Detmer three times ... and still losing.  freak.  That was a low point.  This is the worst since that.  freak Adam Gase.  freak him hard.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 07:15:41 PM
Very accurate, and I feel like I can actually compare these seasons since I was around for all of them. None of those even feel close to as bad as this one. The difference? I never believed in a Jets QB like I do with Sam Darnold. It’s heartbreaking to watch when it feels like we finally have the QB of the future in place but the organization isn’t giving him a chance to succeed.

The sequence of events to start the season really makes this the worst. Duff being retained, Gase getting hired, the sequence that led to Duff’s firing. I’ve never felt good about this season at any point in time.
As DS said above, the Darnold factor cuts in two different directions, he's something we should be hopeful about but seeing him struggle for nothing right now is painful. For now I'm still hopeful, I still see him as undeveloped rather than regressing.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on November 03, 2019, 08:18:36 PM
The depressing part is I thought we had a QB. But a terrible owner saw to that.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 04, 2019, 09:54:43 AM
I've been a Jets fan since Joe Walton was picking his nose on the sideline on TV. I lived through Peyton Manning telling us to freak off, and Rich Kotite running the team into the ground.

This is the worst season I've lived through. All this stuff about guys having had hope coming in isn't something I felt at any point. Like SFD, there has never been a point when I felt positive about this year.

And this staff is ruining the best QB prospect this organization has ever had. Exactly what I said was going to happen.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Pope on November 04, 2019, 10:13:07 AM
I don’t think Darnold is as broken as people are letting on. He’s made some bad plays but this whole team is in disrepair. I don’t think we’ll get good play out of any QB at the moment as it seems they’ve gathered 11 strangers every Sunday to run an offense together
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: ScotlandJet on November 04, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
This whole thread is tough to read.
Fans recalling some dark days of the past. I'm old enough to remember the double overtime loss in Clevland and the following tailspin of the team when we were ligit. We just never got there and this period feels very similar.

We have always flirted with success even under Mangini but these last few years under Bowles and now this abortion just makes me sad and worse - indifferent.
I always say at the start of the season I just want the Jets to be in the shake up at Christmas even if it is a longshot - ha! When did that last happen?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on November 04, 2019, 10:49:28 AM
Yeah it's definitely too early to write Darnold off.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 04, 2019, 10:54:11 AM
I don't think it's time to write off Sam. I do think continuing to allow this staff to coach him and this offense will cause irreparable harm.

When he has even an extra second to throw, you can see the talent there. The problem is that extra second is really hard to come by.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on November 04, 2019, 10:56:50 AM
Has 99 even been brought up? I don't think I've ever been as devastated by a season as that one.

I saw 2005 get brought up a couple of times here, that one hurt. Fresh off a 10 win season with a pro bowler brought in at a position of need....all for it to go up in flames as Chad AND Jay went down within about a 10 minute span of each other.

This one hurts. Yesterday was yet another valley for a franchise that's seen so many. But I still don't buy two narratives being pushed by the media right now;

1. The damage being done to Sam will be irreversible.

2. Douglas and Gase are tied at the hip.

And so begins the march to the end of the season, and very likely, the search for a new head coach. I said it before this debacle, if Gase loses to the dolphins and giants, I could definitely see ownership pulling the plug. 

Also...Brian Winters should have been cut the second the game was over yesterday.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 11:12:39 AM
I think there's a difference between a season lost to injury like Vinny and Chad and a team that is just terrible in its construction.

Vinny's 99 injury stands alone because 1998 was the best team we've ever had, except for (or possibly including) the 68 team none of us saw. The only team to stop us from winning the Super Bowl was Denver and Elway was retired. After that year we lost Parcells, Belichick, Keyshawn and were never the same team again. The Chad years were what they were, odd years he was hurt and we sucked, even years he was in and we made the playoffs.

As far as being historically bad over a stretch of years, again I can only point to the mid 70s and the mid 90s for anything comparable to this. The mid 70s were the last few Namath years which bottomed out in 76 when Lou Holtz came in and was fired before the last game. We went 3-11 for the second year in a row and Namath was done after the season. We went 3-11 again in 1977 with Walt Michaels but he was a new coach with a real rebuild getting started, with young players like Todd, Walker, Klecko, Harper, Buttle and Powell.

I still maintain that 1995 was worse and more depressing than 1996, even though the record was slightly better. By 96 we had some better players, played more competitive games and knew Kotite would be gone as opposed to just getting here. We also knew by mid/late 96 that Parcells and Kraft were at odds and there was a good chance we would get Parcells and the #1 overall pick after the season, which we did.

This year reminds me a lot of 1995, coach being new, except that we have a young QB trying to find his way as opposed to an aging star in Boomer. Boomer could have used some of Darnold's agility in 1995.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 04, 2019, 11:27:20 AM
I am all in for having a tailgate this year if they fire this bag of dicks
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 04, 2019, 12:01:54 PM
I am all in for having a tailgate this year if they fire this bag of dicks

That would actually be pretty fun
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: IATA on November 04, 2019, 12:27:27 PM
every day that adam gase is our coach is the worst day of my life.

every day is progressively worst knowing adam gase is our coach than the previous day.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 12:38:42 PM
every day that adam gase is our coach is the worst day of my life.

every day is progressively worst knowing adam gase is our coach than the previous day.

This is exactly why 1996 was better than 1995, because we knew Kotite was a goner. Living through it is different than looking back at the records.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on November 04, 2019, 01:34:51 PM
I am not going back to the horror shows I have lived thru as a Jets fan. That's what makes SOJTFs, and I don't give three shits about being one of those.

This year sucks, let's hope they cut out the cancer and we as a fanbase can move on to a more stable team.

What I hope happens: they fire Gase, launch him to the moon really, give Douglas power to hire his guy and he in turn gives that guy the power to his own staff and then Douglas has a decent draft.

 You would think this is all stuff that should and could happen, be achievable and would make the Jets a million times better off.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 04, 2019, 01:46:38 PM
I am not going back to the horror shows I have lived thru as a Jets fan. That's what makes SOJTFs, and I don't give three shits about being one of those.

This year sucks, let's hope they cut out the cancer and we as a fanbase can move on to a more stable team.

What I hope happens: they fire Gase, launch him to the moon really, give Douglas power to hire his guy and he in turn gives that guy the power to his own staff and then Douglas has a decent draft.

 You would think this is all stuff that should and could happen, be achievable and would make the Jets a million times better off.

How exactly do you propose this organization suddenly learn competence?

excrement rolls downhill.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 02:34:43 PM
Douglas is the key. He is the one who has to bring in players that can play, it's been done before, been done here. He just got here, he's not leaving, we have to hope he can get better players.
Title: Re: NY Jets draft and reconstruction
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 02:36:34 PM
Slow times and slower times will beckon, but I think it would be interesting to discuss about what should de Jets do during the draft and free agency. I will start with my (limited) knowledge and I'll let the more knowledgeable guys (I'm looking at you Dreamers) to keep going.

QB: I would prefer us not to draft anyone and go with a veteran and the two young ones we have. Would Tyrod Taylor be a decent possibility? I would prefer him to Cutler or Romo as he would come cheaper. I'm not sold on any of the second tier ones though.

RB: I think we can survive with the two we have, although someone in the latter rounds of the draft could come in handy.

OL: The biggest priority. Carpenter and Shell will stay. I'd like Mangold to stay provided he takes a pay cut and move Johnson to guard. Let's see what happens with Winters. We would obviously need a LT after that and none seems to be good enough to reach for at 6. Any idea of latter rounds or veterans?

WR: I know I'm well in the minority here but I'd like both Marshall and Decker to stay, provided Marshall takes a pay cut. If not, good riddance. All the others should stay too.

TE: I'd like to keep Seferian-Jenkins and Tomlinson and add a good one on the draft.

DL: There's a problem with trading Sheldon and it's that he would probably give us less in return than what we'd get for him if we let him walk next year. Let's see how that situation pans out. Williams and Mo will obviously stay and I liked what I saw of Simon and McLendon (before his injury). Lawrence Thomas was interesting as well before getting hurt.

OLB: We're in deep excrement there. It seems Mauldin and Jenkins could be decent but not much more than that. The rest are garbage. I'd like us to address that position at 6 once and for all although last time we drafted one so high it was the worst bust in franchise history (Gholston).

ILB: I'd like to resign Harris at the right price. He's declining a bit but still busting his derriere on every snap, let's hope Lee polishes his flaws.

S: I don't know what to think of Pryor, I expected this to be his year but he was a mess, although the putrid state of our CBs didn't help. We need to get another one on FA as neither Miles nor Middleton are starting caliber.

CB: Goodbye Revis. Burn the unit to the ground and start anew. Trading down a bit to get Humphrey sounds like a good plan. Maybe keep Burris and Williams. In an ideal world, Skrine would stay to play exclusively in the slot.

Special teams: I'd like Folk to stay provided he agrees to a paycut. Bring some competition at P. Getting some decent depth players would be nice too to prevent the usual shitstorm.

So, to summarize.

I'd like to address the following positions at the draft: OLB, CB (x2), LT, TE, RB (late), S (late).
Free agency: QB, CB, S, OLB.

What do you guys think?


Here's what I mean--this post is less than three years old and the only person mentioned that is still here is McClendon. That has to change.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on November 04, 2019, 02:41:42 PM
How exactly do you propose this organization suddenly learn competence?

excrement rolls downhill.
I don't, it's just a hope rather than wallowing in self pity. Neither is productive.




It s basically this:

 Wish in one hand and excrement in the other and see what fills up first. I am not shitting in my hand even though I know hoping is folly.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 02:55:41 PM
I don't, it's just a hope rather than wallowing in self pity. Neither is productive.




It s basically this:

 Wish in one hand and excrement in the other and see what fills up first. I am not shitting in my hand even though I know hoping is folly.

It's not self pity for me, just perspective. Like we've been through this before and came out of it ok. In 1995 and 96 we were a laughingstock, in 1998 we were a powerhouse. The mid 70s turned into the Sack Exchange era, but you need someone acquiring players that knows what they are doing.
Title: Re: Re: NY Jets draft and reconstruction
Post by: MexJetinBcn on November 04, 2019, 02:57:42 PM
Here's what I mean--this post is less than three years old and the only person mentioned that is still here is McClendon. That has to change.

freak, I forgot about writing this post at all. Itís an extremely depressing read now. We were young and full of hope (not)
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on November 04, 2019, 05:48:55 PM


I am not going back to the horror shows I have lived thru as a Jets fan. That's what makes SOJTFs, and I don't give three shits about being one of those.

This year sucks, let's hope they cut out the cancer and we as a fanbase can move on to a more stable team.

What I hope happens: they fire Gase, launch him to the moon really, give Douglas power to hire his guy and he in turn gives that guy the power to his own staff and then Douglas has a decent draft.

 You would think this is all stuff that should and could happen, be achievable and would make the Jets a million times better off.

I agree with your sentiment and I usually avoid wallowing in Jets misery but I felt the current moment needed to be "appreciated" for just how damn shitty it is.

I think things can and will get better - that's the key difference between this and SOJF mentality.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 04, 2019, 06:24:10 PM

I agree with your sentiment and I usually avoid wallowing in Jets misery but I felt the current moment needed to be "appreciated" for just how damn shitty it is.

I think things can and will get better - that's the key difference between this and SOJF mentality.
Agreed.

In terms of most miserable seasons since 2000, I would go...
1. 2005
2. 2016
3. 2014
4. 2012
5. 2007

I wasn't young enough to fully appreciate everything around the 1999 season, otherwise that would have been higher.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2019, 07:35:34 AM
Whenís the next time weíre competitive? 2020? 2021?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2019, 12:08:04 PM
Lookin like 2021/22
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 13, 2019, 12:20:23 PM
Lookin like 2021/22

I think we can be competitive next year, if you mean around 500 and in the hunt through or past Thanksgiving. Probably the following year before we can expect to contend for the division, especially ours.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:18:26 PM
Whenís the next time weíre competitive? 2020? 2021?

The AFC is bad enough that if we have a middle of the pack OL we could be competitive next year.

I mean the freaking Bills are one of the better afc teams. That's freaking insane
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Pope on November 13, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
Realistically speaking when this Black Plague of injury leaves, going into next year we are looking at:

QB: Good with potential to be great
RB: Great but need OL help
WR: Decent but in need of a true #1
TE: Solid
OL: Terrible, need to allocate a lot of our draft and free agency to upgrade

DL: Solid, scheme dependent. Elite run Defense
LB: Good to great if everyones back (need edge rusher)
CB: Biggest need defensively. Similar to OL
Safety: Great

If Douglas finds a way to patch the biggest needs, especially at OL I think the team is a playoff contender. Would be nice if Maccagnan left us with some parting gifts from the draft with guys like Fatukasi, Austin, and Edoga, etc
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:35:47 PM
Realistically speaking when this Black Plague of injury leaves, going into next year we are looking at:

QB: Good with potential to be great
RB: Great but need OL help
WR: Decent but in need of a true #1
TE: Solid
OL: Terrible, need to allocate a lot of our draft and free agency to upgrade

DL: Solid, scheme dependent. Elite run Defense
LB: Good to great if everyones back (need edge rusher)
CB: Biggest need defensively. Similar to OL
Safety: Great

If Douglas finds a way to patch the biggest needs, especially at OL I think the team is a playoff contender. Would be nice if Maccagnan left us with some parting gifts from the draft with guys like Fatukasi, Austin, and Edoga, etc

I'm not calling running back great while we are 31st in rushing yards and 31st in YPC
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2019, 01:40:58 PM
I don't see how they're competitive next year. It's going to take at least 2 drafts to bring in enough OL to revamp the line. Then they've also got to address at least one corner position in the draft rather than just free agency. Maybe they can get an EDGE in FA, but they really need to try hitting in the draft there as well.

And that's ignoring they may need to replace Enunwa and Anderson. And Bell will be significantly older at that point too.

2021 is the earliest I see this team start to be competitive. And 2022 is more likely for the next playoff appearance.
Title: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Pope on November 13, 2019, 01:41:50 PM
I'm not calling running back great while we are 31st in rushing yards and 31st in YPC
I certainly wouldn’t call LeVeon Bell average. Our rushing stats are terrible because there is absolutely nowhere to run. Whether you blame that on scheme or injury or talent or whatever. I’m simply grading each unit on talent.

Saquon is a tremendous player but I’m not writing him off as dogshit because he had 1 rushing yard against a 1-7 Jets team
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:43:07 PM
I don't see how they're competitive next year. It's going to take at least 2 drafts to bring in enough OL to revamp the line. Then they've also got to address at least one corner position in the draft rather than just free agency. Maybe they can get an EDGE in FA, but they really need to try hitting in the draft there as well.

And that's ignoring they may need to replace Enunwa and Anderson. And Bell will be significantly older at that point too.

2021 is the earliest I see this team start to be competitive. And 2022 is more likely for the next playoff appearance.

With free agency and the draft the OL could be significantly better in a year. Surely it can't become great, but to go from historically bad to below average is an insane improvement
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:44:51 PM
I certainly wouldnít call LeVeon Bell average. Our rushing stats are terrible because there is absolutely nowhere to run. Whether you blame that on scheme or injury or talent or whatever. Iím simply grading each unit on talent.

Saquon is a tremendous player but Iím not writing him off as dogshit because he had 1 rushing yard against a 1-7 Jets team

We've only seen Bell be elite with a good OL, and elite QB + top wideouts around him.

I'm not saying he's bad as he's an excellent blocker and leader. But he's never proven himself great on a garbage team

Between a year out of the league and not having stacked opportunities it's possible he's not great. He sure hasn't looked it this season
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Pope on November 13, 2019, 01:47:53 PM
We've only seen Bell be elite with a good OL, and elite QB + top wideouts around him.

I'm not saying he's bad as he's an excellent blocker and leader. But he's never proven himself great on a garbage team
Fair enough.. I’m comfortable keeping him as a top 10 RB based off his history and the glimpses this year. He’s made plays out of absolutely nothing to work with in the backfield. Statistically he’s been terrible but he has passed the eye test easily
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2019, 01:51:21 PM
With free agency and the draft the OL could be significantly better in a year. Surely it can't become great, but to go from historically bad to below average is an insane improvement

Good offensive linemen almost never hit the market. FA is not where you build your OL.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:57:14 PM
Good offensive linemen almost never hit the market. FA is not where you build your OL.

Can build and use bandaids.

And an OL doesn't need to be a "good" lineman to be a huge improvement for the team
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 13, 2019, 02:03:40 PM
Fair enough.. Iím comfortable keeping him as a top 10 RB based off his history and the glimpses this year. Heís made plays out of absolutely nothing to work with in the backfield. Statistically heís been terrible but he has passed the eye test easily

Agreed, it's why you have to watch the games and not just stats. Bell can be great if we fix the line, and a big help to Darnold. Give him something.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2019, 02:24:23 PM
Can build and use bandaids.

And an OL doesn't need to be a "good" lineman to be a huge improvement for the team


Bandaids don't make playoff offensive lines. My definition of "competitive" is making the playoffs. This team won't make the playoffs until they revamp the OL, get at least one very good corner, and get someone who can actually hit the opposing QB.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 02:32:05 PM
Bandaids don't make playoff offensive lines. My definition of "competitive" is making the playoffs. This team won't make the playoffs until they revamp the OL, get at least one very good corner, and get someone who can actually hit the opposing QB.

Have you looked at the state of the AFC?

There's basically 3 powerhouses. One has a QB who could die of old age at any moment, one has an electric star QB who will eventually have his explosive ability sapped by injuries, one has no defense.

Then there's the Bills Browns Texans and former shell of the Steelers.

The talent of the AFC has really fallen, outside of the Bengals, Dolphins, and maybe Broncos I genuinely think any other afc team could be competitive with the playoffs next year. If Brady dies retires or has his arm sapped then any of those teams could be legit SB contenders.

The AFC is really lacking powerhouse teams
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on November 13, 2019, 02:48:40 PM
They have 70 million dollars and some draft flexibility given the extra picks from the Leo trade and the likelyhood we'll be picking in the top 10, if not top 5.

They can fix the o-line in an off-season. It might take a little while for said o-line to gel with the new blood, sure.

With the obvious exception of Darnold, no ones development is more important to this team over the next half a season than Edoga for the very reason that it'll be a lot easier to replace one tackle as opposed to two.

If Edoga shows well at right tackle to end the year, I wouldn't be opposed to signing a veteran LT (Costanzo, Bulaga) in order to gain a little certainty at the position and free the team up to actually take a skill position player like a Jerry Jeudy in the 1st round. As of right now though, the way this team is presently constituted, Jeudy is a luxury we just can't afford.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on November 13, 2019, 03:16:45 PM
Bandaids don't make playoff offensive lines.

Sure they do. 32 year old Alan Faneca and 32 year old Damien Woody weren't brought in to be long term starters, they were brought in as short term talent to get us into the playoffs and help develop our young OL talent in Brick and Mangold. If we go and draft say Andrew Thomas and Trey Smith, it makes a whole heap of sense to get a couple of vets like Trent Williams or Mike Iupati if they decide to test the market - they've both probably got a 3 year contract left in them.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 14, 2019, 04:48:58 AM
I would argue almost any team in the league can be a playoff team in one offseason if things break their way.

If our OL play and CB play can improve from atrocious to merely average, it would fix a lot of our problems. Easier said than done, but we will have draft capital and some money, so it's not totally crazy. It is vital that guys like Edoga or Austin show they can belong.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 14, 2019, 02:02:57 PM
I would argue almost any team in the league can be a playoff team in one offseason if things break their way.

In most cases, yes. The league is set up that way, you only need to be better than three teams in a given year to win your division and host a playoff game. Problem for us is since the league did that in 2002 we've had New England in our division, we've won it once, Miami once, Buffalo not at all. That won't last forever, in the meantime we build around the young talent we have.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 27, 2019, 11:40:23 AM
As we improve, this year is starting to look more like 1997 than 1995, which is a good thing. We also had a new head coach and young QB, also had disappointing losses at home to Buffalo and at Miami early in the season. Got better as we went along, finished 9-7 and had a shot at the playoffs if they won their last game, at Detroit. That team didn't have such a bad first half, so they stayed in contention.

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 28, 2019, 07:47:20 AM
NFL Network: Last Jets win at Cincinnati was in 1997. Feeling it.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on November 28, 2019, 08:00:47 AM
NFL Network: Last Jets win at Cincinnati was in 1997. Feeling it.

Wasn't the playoff win in 09 a road game?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Libero_2 on November 28, 2019, 08:04:01 AM
Wasn't the playoff win in 09 a road game?

Yes we won both games on the road that year
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 28, 2019, 08:11:33 AM
Wasn't the playoff win in 09 a road game?

It was, good call. They must have meant regular season.

Watched that playoff game at Disney of all things.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 01, 2019, 06:05:19 PM
Oh no we suck again
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: steves850 on December 01, 2019, 06:05:57 PM
Oh no we suck again
Remember when we didn't?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 01, 2019, 06:15:34 PM
Remember when we didn't?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Nope
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 01, 2019, 06:40:30 PM
Nope

The Rex years.

#KeepRex
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 01, 2019, 07:20:45 PM
The Rex years.

#KeepRex
The Rex years started this....
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 01, 2019, 07:47:34 PM
The Rex years started this....

Can't blame Rex for any of this. Still our last playoff appearances.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 01, 2019, 07:49:43 PM
Can't blame Rex for any of this. Still our last playoff appearances.

You just pine for mediocrity.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 01, 2019, 08:12:33 PM
Can't blame Rex for any of this. Still our last playoff appearances.
You can thank Mangini for those playoff years

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 01, 2019, 08:48:55 PM
You guys plan of a new coach every year isn't working either.

Also, the logic you apply can he distorted to suit any narrative you want. Or if we're consistent then I guess Rex is responsible for Buffalo's success now.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 01, 2019, 08:53:22 PM
You guys plan of a new coach every year isn't working either.

We all wanted either Rhule or Harbaugh.

We got Gase instead, and predictably this has gone to excrement.

We don't want a new guy every year. We just want the right guy. Instead we got Bowles who failed miserably. And his replacement is the one guy most of the fanbase didnt want.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 01, 2019, 09:10:58 PM
(https://i.redd.it/5uf1molz63241.png)
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 01, 2019, 09:15:27 PM
(https://i.redd.it/5uf1molz63241.png)

If we had just won those two games, then we could be 6-6 right now.

Hell if we don't choke away the Bills game in addition we could be 7-5.

You need to win the games you SHOULD win, and defeating 0-7 or worse teams, are games just about any team SHOULD win. That is why Gase should be fired, because he can't win these games, hell he can't even be that competitive in them.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 01, 2019, 09:35:18 PM
If we had just won those two games, then we could be 6-6 right now.

Hell if we don't choke away the Bills game in addition we could be 7-5.

You need to win the games you SHOULD win, and defeating 0-7 or worse teams, are games just about any team SHOULD win. That is why Gase should be fired, because he can't win these games, hell he can't even be that competitive in them.

Interesting they have Beachum up there with the graphic. Not sure Jesus could get a win the way our O line played.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 01, 2019, 09:39:40 PM
(https://i.redd.it/5uf1molz63241.png)

Not the coach's fault at all.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 01, 2019, 09:43:31 PM
Not the coach's fault at all.


Of course it isn't, Gase is awesome. He should be here another 5 years because why hire the right guy, we need continuity whether he sucks derriere or not.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Pope on December 01, 2019, 11:23:18 PM
I’m no fan of Gase but this team has a serious problem with pass protection and running the ball. We only ran for over 100 yards as a team once and that was against Washington. I don’t think Bell has cracked 75 yards in a game this season. Until we fix the OL you can trot out whoever you’d like at head coach and offensive coordinator but it likely won’t work out well.

All this retarded screaming and yelling about Gase being the worst coach of all time is tiring. We’re not a good team and it showed again today
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 02, 2019, 12:37:04 AM
Not Gase's fault:
This team was middling at best prior to the injuries.

-Our safeties and ILBs were probably the two best groups coming in before Williamson hit IR in the preseason and Mosely became ineffective hours after the start of the season.
-Tru probably does us better on the IR than the field.
-Darryl Roberts was not an answer opposite Tru, and I don't think anyone saw Austin playing like he has been coming off of two ACL tears.
-Basically every corner that isn't Austin or Maulet(sometimes).
-Our OLine's talent level coming into this season could most likely be qualified as, "LOL!" Beachum is serviceable at LT, most of the time. Harrison might be the most talented player out of anyone on the OLine for their given position.
-Our receiving corps was incredibly underwhelming. Enunwa is a 2 at best. Anderson only flashes talent occasionally; he's just not that consistent.
-Injury demon striking again and taking Adams out.
 
Overall this team has consistently failed to commit to the offense in terms of quality personnel either in free agency or the draft time after time and it is painful. It is painful enough to make me question why I bother devoting this much time to them.

Gase's Fault:
This freaking offensive scheme where we went up against the worst run defense in the league who cannot set an edge and called 14 run plays to the inside, most of them directly at the defense's most talented player.

The offensive scheme that got us 8 losses including last night. The worst team in the league and he couldn't figure out away around their defense.

Penalties are the head coach's fault every time. Either prep your team better or hold the guy screwing up accountable.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 02, 2019, 12:50:57 AM
Not Gase's fault:
This team was middling at best prior to the injuries.

-Our safeties and ILBs were probably the two best groups coming in before Williamson hit IR in the preseason and Mosely became ineffective hours after the start of the season.
-Tru probably does us better on the IR than the field.
-Darryl Roberts was not an answer opposite Tru, and I don't think anyone saw Austin playing like he has been coming off of two ACL tears.
-Basically every corner that isn't Austin or Maulet(sometimes).
-Our OLine's talent level coming into this season could most likely be qualified as, "LOL!" Beachum is serviceable at LT, most of the time. Harrison might be the most talented player out of anyone on the OLine for their given position.
-Our receiving corps was incredibly underwhelming. Enunwa is a 2 at best. Anderson only flashes talent occasionally; he's just not that consistent.
-Injury demon striking again and taking Adams out.
 
Overall this team has consistently failed to commit to the offense in terms of quality personnel either in free agency or the draft time after time and it is painful. It is painful enough to make me question why I bother devoting this much time to them.

Gase's Fault:
This freaking offensive scheme where we went up against the worst run defense in the league who cannot set an edge and called 14 run plays to the inside, most of them directly at the defense's most talented player.

The offensive scheme that got us 8 losses including last night. The worst team in the league and he couldn't figure out away around their defense.

Penalties are the head coach's fault every time. Either prep your team better or hold the guy screwing up accountable.

I agree with almost of all of it except for the penalties. Most of them were due to our OLinemen being beaten and trying to compensate. Thatís on talent not discipline. Also, how to hold a guy accountable when we literally donít have anyone to replace him with?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: ScotlandJet on December 02, 2019, 02:52:27 AM
Not heaping all the blame on Gaze because of other deficiencies in the team is taking a pragmatic view but after all the excrement we have had to deal with over the Bowles era can you imagine the outcry if we stick with Gaze and excrement the bed early next year?

It's time the front office started listening to the fanbase; we suck and need new leadership.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 02, 2019, 03:41:50 AM
Not heaping all the blame on Gaze because of other deficiencies in the team is taking a pragmatic view but after all the excrement we have had to deal with over the Bowles era can you imagine the outcry if we stick with Gaze and excrement the bed early next year?

It's time the front office started listening to the fanbase; we suck and need new leadership.

Someone else needs to buy this team.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2019, 08:46:59 AM
Someone else needs to buy this team.

/thread
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 02, 2019, 09:03:50 AM
Someone else needs to buy this team.

I agree but we're still just wishing for things that aren't going to happen.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2019, 09:13:44 AM
I agree but we're still just wishing for things that aren't going to happen.

The only person from this franchise i have faith in is Joe Douglas.  I think he'll fix this roster in a season or 2.

But that's where it ends.


I don't think Gase will get us over the hump.  I believe his ceiling is .500 with a healthy roster.  Apparently he skipped Thanksgiving dinner with his family to game plan for Cincy, and we all saw what the fruits of his labor gave us. He's in over his head.



Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 02, 2019, 09:29:17 AM
The only person from this franchise i have faith in is Joe Douglas.  I think he'll fix this roster in a season or 2.

But that's where it ends.


I don't think Gase will get us over the hump.  I believe his ceiling is .500 with a healthy roster.  Apparently he skipped Thanksgiving dinner with his family to game plan for Cincy, and we all saw what the fruits of his labor gave us. He's in over his head.





THIS X INFINITY
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 02, 2019, 10:47:10 AM
Hahaha he skipped Thanksgiving for that? That might be the funniest thing I have heard in a while.

Oh and if we can't hold him accountable for the numerous penalties and complete lack of discipline by his team, I mean that's on the players right? Then freaking Gase coached a freaking superb game.

Nothing wrong with the Jets, they're wonderfully coached but just have bad players.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on December 02, 2019, 10:58:06 AM
Hahaha he skipped Thanksgiving for that? That might be the funniest thing I have heard in a while.

Oh and if we can't hold him accountable for the numerous penalties and complete lack of discipline by his team, I mean that's on the players right? Then freaking Gase coached a freaking superb game.

Nothing wrong with the Jets, they're wonderfully coached but just have bad players.

Gase deserves credit for us being insanely undisciplined.

However you do also have to consider we had 4 freaking backup offensive linemen, on what's already a horrible oline.

Kelichi Kalil Winters Edoga, jsut freaking crazy the diasaster there.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 02, 2019, 11:00:26 AM
Gase deserves credit for us being insanely undisciplined.

However you do also have to consider we had 4 freaking backup offensive linemen, on what's already a horrible oline.

Kelichi Kalil Winters Edoga, jsut freaking crazy the diasaster there.

Throw Beachum in there because he is who we thought he was.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2019, 11:09:35 AM
Gase deserves credit for us being insanely undisciplined.

However you do also have to consider we had 4 freaking backup offensive linemen, on what's already a horrible oline.

Kelichi Kalil Winters Edoga, jsut freaking crazy the diasaster there.

I always thought self-proclaimed offensive gurus had the skillset to gameplan around their offensive roster deficiencies.  Maybe not after a game or 2, but in week 13...i think that's reasonable, to retain said "guru status".

From what i've seen so far, he's the furthest thing from being an offensive guru, and closer to gaining "offensive tard" status.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 02, 2019, 11:38:00 AM
The problem with the O line isn't just that they don't block well, they also get positive plays called back. So you call a good play, they run it and some guy grabs and holds a leg, that's on the coach? False start backs you up to the 1 and you hold in the end zone, safety. Then you have to give up the ball. Not saying the coaching was great but even when you make the right call this line is so bad they negate it.

For all the accolades for Williams on here, where was our D yesterday? How many 3rd and longs we going to let an 0-11 team get?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 02, 2019, 11:58:54 AM


The problem with the O line isn't just that they don't block well, they also get positive plays called back. So you call a good play, they run it and some guy grabs and holds a leg, that's on the coach?

Yes, it absolutely is. Discipline and technique are instilled Monday-Friday. It is 100% on the coaching. If they're getting bullied off their blocks by superior talent then that's a different thing, but idiocy like Compton's? Completely on the coaches.

Do you think that Belichick and Scarnecchia would have that sort of thing happening with the same players?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 02, 2019, 12:08:41 PM
Someone else needs to buy this team.
I agree but we're still just wishing for things that aren't going to happen.
What if we all chip in on the JO PayPal account?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 02, 2019, 12:29:30 PM

Yes, it absolutely is. Discipline and technique are instilled Monday-Friday. It is 100% on the coaching. If they're getting bullied off their blocks by superior talent then that's a different thing, but idiocy like Compton's? Completely on the coaches.

Do you think that Belichick and Scarnecchia would have that sort of thing happening with the same players?

They find better players that can block without holding. If you're about to get beat you hold and hope you get away with it, same as in the secondary.

Or you punish them by taking them out of the game and putting in guys who weren't good enough to start over them n the first place, leading to more turmoil.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 02, 2019, 01:22:03 PM
The announcers, literally Spiro freaking Dides and Adam freaking Archuletta were calling out the lack of runs to the outside against the league's worst run defense all day.

Schmucks up in the booth had a better gameplan than the head coach and supposed offensive guru. But sure, we'll just say it's all the players' fault.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 02, 2019, 04:40:23 PM
But sure, we'll just say it's all the players' fault.

This is something I don't understand from some posters on this board who are vehemently against Gase, why is it either or? Either it's all Gase's fault or then the deflecting "blame everyone except Gase".

It's all not so black and white. Facts are this team is very devoid of talent on the offensive line, has been decimated by injuries and no, Gase's track record isn't the best, but to act like he is the worst coach to ever coach in the NFL is absurd.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 02, 2019, 05:02:45 PM
This is something I don't understand from some posters on this board who are vehemently against Gase, why is it either or? Either it's all Gase's fault or then the deflecting "blame everyone except Gase".

It's all not so black and white. Facts are this team is very devoid of talent on the offensive line, has been decimated by injuries and no, Gase's track record isn't the best, but to act like he is the worst coach to ever coach in the NFL is absurd.
Everything has to be black and white. There is no room for nuance.

Gase hasnt done a good job. He was dealt an unwinnable hand with Falk and the OL but it is still embarrassing how they played in that stretch. We lost to 2 awful teams in Miami and Cincy. He seems like a weird dude. But hes here, and he isnt that bad. The only time he had a healthy QB, he made the playoffs.

And excrement, as soon as he got here, he recognized arguably our biggest issue - Maccagnan - and he helped correct it. Next year, Douglas will give him a new roster presumably, and it sill be on Gase to make it work.

The biggest issues with this team are personnel, largely due to injuries. No idea how people can watch yesterday's game and conclude the biggest reason we lost was due to the coaching.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 02, 2019, 06:26:16 PM
Everything has to be black and white. There is no room for nuance.

Gase hasnt done a good job. He was dealt an unwinnable hand with Falk and the OL but it is still embarrassing how they played in that stretch. We lost to 2 awful teams in Miami and Cincy. He seems like a weird dude. But hes here, and he isnt that bad. The only time he had a healthy QB, he made the playoffs.

And excrement, as soon as he got here, he recognized arguably our biggest issue - Maccagnan - and he helped correct it. Next year, Douglas will give him a new roster presumably, and it sill be on Gase to make it work.

The biggest issues with this team are personnel, largely due to injuries. No idea how people can watch yesterday's game and conclude the biggest reason we lost was due to the coaching.

You're complaining about black and white and post something completely freaking ridiculous like how can you watch yesterdays game and blame the coaches? Are you freaking kidding me with that stupid obnoxious self righteous Bullshit?
How about the litany of penalties, shitty play calling, lack of discipline, nnot too mention the poor game planning, lack of adjustment, the lethargy of the team, my God I can give a myriad of reasons why it was bad coaching so stick it.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2019, 06:27:35 PM
Everything has to be black and white. There is no room for nuance.

Gase hasnt done a good job. He was dealt an unwinnable hand with Falk and the OL but it is still embarrassing how they played in that stretch. We lost to 2 awful teams in Miami and Cincy. He seems like a weird dude. But hes here, and he isnt that bad. The only time he had a healthy QB, he made the playoffs.

And excrement, as soon as he got here, he recognized arguably our biggest issue - Maccagnan - and he helped correct it. Next year, Douglas will give him a new roster presumably, and it sill be on Gase to make it work.

The biggest issues with this team are personnel, largely due to injuries. No idea how people can watch yesterday's game and conclude the biggest reason we lost was due to the coaching.

Do you believe Gase can lead this team to a Super bowl? Serious question (obviously not this year)

I don’t want to hear about nuances or black/white....straight up, you think he can get us to the championship game?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 02, 2019, 06:29:54 PM
The announcers, literally Spiro freaking Dides and Adam freaking Archuletta were calling out the lack of runs to the outside against the league's worst run defense all day.

Schmucks up in the booth had a better gameplan than the head coach and supposed offensive guru. But sure, we'll just say it's all the players' fault.

THIS.

Just because the fucktard owner isn't making a change, doesn't mean criticizing the HC is wrong. If you find it tiresome, buckle up...it isn't ending till he's gone.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 02, 2019, 06:35:37 PM
Everything has to be black and white. There is no room for nuance.

Gase hasnt done a good job. He was dealt an unwinnable hand with Falk and the OL but it is still embarrassing how they played in that stretch. We lost to 2 awful teams in Miami and Cincy. He seems like a weird dude. But hes here, and he isnt that bad. The only time he had a healthy QB, he made the playoffs.

And excrement, as soon as he got here, he recognized arguably our biggest issue - Maccagnan - and he helped correct it. Next year, Douglas will give him a new roster presumably, and it sill be on Gase to make it work.

The biggest issues with this team are personnel, largely due to injuries. No idea how people can watch yesterday's game and conclude the biggest reason we lost was due to the coaching.

His track record as a head coach is in a down hill trajectory. His claim to fame is cleaning Manning's jock as he put up record numbers.

If you want a guru, look at Williams. Crazy Gregg has done an amazing job with the injuries on D.

The same CANNOT be said about Gase and his offense...he hasn't done excrement.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 02, 2019, 06:45:11 PM
Do you believe Gase can lead this team to a Super bowl? Serious question (obviously not this year)

I donít want to hear about nuances or black/white....straight up, you think he can get us to the championship game?

This should ALWAYS be the question. If everything breaks right, can Gase out coach / scheme opponents in the playoffs to win it all? If the answer is "yes," then he needs to stick around, if it's "maybe" then he should stick around awhile until you feel confident. If the answer is "I don't think so" or "no" then he should be removed of his duties.

For me, considering he can't out game plan an 0-7 Dolphins team where management is trying to tank, and an 0-11 Bengals team, he gets absolutely murdered by the Patriots (with Sam) and has been completely non-competitive in more games than he has had us competing in. He was flat as a pancake coming out of a bye week, hell he even decided to keep Falk as his guy during the bye, and didn't bring anyone else in, despite the fact he could have at least tried. Gase has failed to utilize one of the best RBs of the generation. Yes he has had injuries to his offense, but his offense has failed to score 10 points in 30% of the games this year, and failed to score more than 16 points in 67% of games. In several of those games we also had defensive TDs.

So for me, Gase, and his performance this season receives the "No" vote on his able to put his team in position to succeed in the postseason. In my eyes, unless he is the most talented team in the bracket, I would not expect them to have a real shot to advance to even a AFCCG let alone win it all. For that reason, I want him out of here sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 02, 2019, 06:58:45 PM
Gase has failed to utilize one of the best RBs of the generation.

Superlative aside, I don't understand how this isn't a more common talking point. What about Bell does Gase think is not useful?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 03, 2019, 02:20:37 AM
Superlative aside, I don't understand how this isn't a more common talking point. What about Bell does Gase think is not useful?
Bell is 12th in the NFL in rushing attempts and dead last in the NFL in yards per rush. There is no less efficient play in the NFL right now than the Jets handing off to Bell. He has had 183 carries this season and doesn't even have 600 yards.

He's dead last in yards per rush before contact as well. I don't think it's a matter of Gase not thinking Bell is useful. I think it's a matter of Gase thinking the offensive line is not useful when it comes to run blocking. And he's right.

Also, if your argument is that Gase is an idiot for not wanting to pay Bell, well, he was right! We shouldn't have paid Bell. Paying for running backs is stupid. Most running backs are as good as their offensive lines will let them be. That's why Thomas Jones went from garbage in 2007 to elite in 2008-09. Paying for Bell was a mistake. I like Bell, but it was.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 03, 2019, 02:35:27 AM
I don't think Gase will get us over the hump.  I believe his ceiling is .500 with a healthy roster.  Apparently he skipped Thanksgiving dinner with his family to game plan for Cincy, and we all saw what the fruits of his labor gave us. He's in over his head.
The only time he's had a healthy roster, he took the Dolphins to their only playoff appearance in 15 years.

I know you and others have asked, "Do I think Gase can take the Jets to the Super Bowl?" And I agree with you that that's an important question. I just don't think it's one that can be answered yet.

I turned on Bowles faster than almost all of you. MBGreen and I were the first two I remember on the fire Bowles bandwagon. He made atrocious in-game decisions and the team stopped trying to compete for him.

I don't think this team has stopped competing. They've played hard all season, despite the lack of success. I also haven't seen any egregiously bad clock management/in-game decisions from Gase, other than punting down 16 to the Patriots with Falk, but they might have had a better chance to score on another muffed punt than they did with Falk running the team.

I think it's a high bar to fire a coach after one season. We are 4-5 with Sam Darnold as our quarterback. The 2.5 Falk games were unwinnable. What I saw from the Cincinnati game was a team that could not compete in the trenches offensively, even against an atrocious Bengals team. Some of that is coaching, but the vast majority of that is talent. And defensively, they couldn't get off the field when they needed to.

Entering the season, most of us agreed that the Jets had talent to compete, but they lacked depth. Well, when your QB gets mono, your #2 WR gets hurt, your OL changes every week, your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th LBs all miss multiple games, and your cornerbacks change seemingly every week, that doesn't help a team that lacks depth.

He's definitely on the hot seat when next season starts, but as long as we're happy with where Sam Darnold is in Week 17, I think Gase should come back another year.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 03, 2019, 05:56:18 AM
Bell is 12th in the NFL in rushing attempts and dead last in the NFL in yards per rush. There is no less efficient play in the NFL right now than the Jets handing off to Bell. He has had 183 carries this season and doesn't even have 600 yards.

He's dead last in yards per rush before contact as well. I don't think it's a matter of Gase not thinking Bell is useful. I think it's a matter of Gase thinking the offensive line is not useful when it comes to run blocking. And he's right.

Also, if your argument is that Gase is an idiot for not wanting to pay Bell, well, he was right! We shouldn't have paid Bell. Paying for running backs is stupid. Most running backs are as good as their offensive lines will let them be. That's why Thomas Jones went from garbage in 2007 to elite in 2008-09. Paying for Bell was a mistake. I like Bell, but it was.

You are giving him a lot of credit for deciding to be a one dimensional offense, especially against the worst run defending team in the league.

Leveon Bell isn't as bad as his current ranking. An NFL calibur coach and offensive staff should be able to get more out of Bell than we we are right now.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 03, 2019, 06:31:12 AM

He's definitely on the hot seat when next season starts, but as long as we're happy with where Sam Darnold is in Week 17, I think Gase should come back another year.

If he is going to start NEXT season on the hot seat, what the freak is the point? It means nobody really believes in him. At that point we are just expecting to waste a year of Darnold's youth and development.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Jumbo on December 03, 2019, 07:32:06 AM
Bell is 12th in the NFL in rushing attempts and dead last in the NFL in yards per rush. There is no less efficient play in the NFL right now than the Jets handing off to Bell. He has had 183 carries this season and doesn't even have 600 yards.

He's dead last in yards per rush before contact as well. I don't think it's a matter of Gase not thinking Bell is useful. I think it's a matter of Gase thinking the offensive line is not useful when it comes to run blocking. And he's right.

Also, if your argument is that Gase is an idiot for not wanting to pay Bell, well, he was right! We shouldn't have paid Bell. Paying for running backs is stupid. Most running backs are as good as their offensive lines will let them be. That's why Thomas Jones went from garbage in 2007 to elite in 2008-09. Paying for Bell was a mistake. I like Bell, but it was.

No OL is so bad that an All-Pro caliber RB should be dead last in YPC because of them.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 09:04:08 AM

I know you and others have asked, "Do I think Gase can take the Jets to the Super Bowl?" And I agree with you that that's an important question. I just don't think it's one that can be answered yet.

Yes it can.  Gase isn't a rookie HC.  He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. He wasn't the answer in Miami, and he's pulling the same crap here, which means he isn't the answer here either. I have zero faith that we'll reach the playoffs with this clown, let alone a Super Bowl.  We're making the exact same mistake the Bills made when they hired Rex.

Quote
He's definitely on the hot seat when next season starts, but as long as we're happy with where Sam Darnold is in Week 17, I think Gase should come back another year.

lol

If he's on the hot seat next Sept, why wait?  let's be proactive for once and hire the right guy.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 03, 2019, 10:32:56 AM

For me, considering he can't out game plan an 0-7 Dolphins team where management is trying to tank,

If this were actually true, Josh Rosen would be taking snaps as the starter. Management for sure wanted to tear it down to build something better, but there's a difference between that and outright tanking.

Yes it can.  Gase isn't a rookie HC.  He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. He wasn't the answer in Miami, and he's pulling the same crap here, which means he isn't the answer here either. I have zero faith that we'll reach the playoffs with this clown, let alone a Super Bowl.  We're making the exact same mistake the Bills made when they hired Rex.

lol

If he's on the hot seat next Sept, why wait?  let's be proactive for once and hire the right guy.

I wholeheartedly believe Atlanta wins a super bowl if they hired Rex over Quinn, especially if he's married to Shanahan in that job.

Further, since you're proposing a firing and want to hire the right guy, who? Rhule? Because college coaches jumping to the NFL are guaranteed success, just ask Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Mike Riley, Bobby Petrino, Dennis Erickson, Greg Schiano, Chip Kelly, Steve Spurrier, Butch Davis, the list goes on and on. That list features multiple national champions and a guy who's considered to be the best college coach along with Urban Meyer of his era.

The fact is, the guy you guys wanted was run out of town by a generational talent at quarterback and a team that has gone from a 6 win season to 8-2. For all of the "Gase rode Manning's jock" talk, there seems to be a massive blindspot to the fact that McCarthy was carried to success by a quarterback he didn't even want when he had the chance to give significant input in drafting him. 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 10:52:03 AM


Further, since you're proposing a firing and want to hire the right guy, who? Rhule? Because college coaches jumping to the NFL are guaranteed success, just ask Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Mike Riley, Bobby Petrino, Dennis Erickson, Greg Schiano, Chip Kelly, Steve Spurrier, Butch Davis, the list goes on and on. That list features multiple national champions and a guy who's considered to be the best college coach along with Urban Meyer of his era.

 

  Rhule would've been a risk worth taking.  But hey, let's go with the known failure instead.

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 03, 2019, 10:54:56 AM
  Rhule would've been a risk worth taking.  But hey, let's go with the known failure instead.

Except he's not a known failure. 

How many wins given their talent level should that Miami team have gotten last year, especially considering they played a quarter of the season without their starting quarterback?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 10:57:40 AM
Except he's not a known failure. 

How many wins given their talent level should that Miami team have gotten last year, especially considering they played a quarter of the season without their starting quarterback?

Yes, he's a failure.  And if he wasn't such a big social retard, he'd probably be on TV sitting next to Rex next year.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 03, 2019, 11:03:33 AM
Except he's not a known failure. 

How many wins given their talent level should that Miami team have gotten last year, especially considering they played a quarter of the season without their starting quarterback?

If he's not a failure, why did Miami fire him?

Also he had his starting QB but couldn't manage to beat a winless Bengals team?

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 11:07:56 AM
If he's not a failure, why did Miami fire him?

Also he had his starting QB but couldn't manage to beat a winless Bengals team?



Gase got outcoached by 2 winless rookie HC coaches....


#NotAFailureSZN
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 03, 2019, 11:12:48 AM
If he's not a failure, why did Miami fire him?

Also he had his starting QB but couldn't manage to beat a winless Bengals team?

He and Ross reached an impasse and had a personality clash. Mangini got fired from the Jets for the exact same reason, and the same voice calling Gase a failure around here would agree with me in that firing Mangini was a regrettable decision. It happens.

Gase got outcoached by 2 winless rookie HC coaches....


#NotAFailureSZN

He didn't get outcoached by Taylor though. When your receivers are dropping wide open passes and your o-line can't block anyone, that's not getting outcoached. He got away from the run game way too quickly and didn't go to the outside nearly enough. Agreed. But that's not anything Zac Taylor did.

 Doug Pederson won a super bowl and just got outcoached by Brian Flores. It happens.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 11:16:22 AM
He and Ross reached an impasse and had a personality clash. Mangini got fired from the Jets for the exact same reason, and the same voice calling Gase a failure around here would agree with me in that firing Mangini was a regrettable decision. It happens.

He didn't get outcoached by Taylor though. When your receivers are dropping wide open passes and your o-line can't block anyone, that's not getting outcoached. He got away from the run game way too quickly and didn't go to the outside nearly enough. Agreed. But that's not anything Zac Taylor did.

 Doug Pederson won a super bowl and just got outcoached by Brian Flores. It happens.

Doug Pederson has outcoached Belichick and won a Super bowl.  He's earned the right to lose a few without criticism.

Gase hasn't earned excrement.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 03, 2019, 12:33:06 PM
This is something I don't understand from some posters on this board who are vehemently against Gase, why is it either or? Either it's all Gase's fault or then the deflecting "blame everyone except Gase".

It's all not so black and white. Facts are this team is very devoid of talent on the offensive line, has been decimated by injuries and no, Gase's track record isn't the best, but to act like he is the worst coach to ever coach in the NFL is absurd.

I think it was in the game recap thread, but I specifically said it wasn't just the coaching, nor just the play on the field, nor just the talent (or lack thereof) that lost this week. It was all 3.

This roster is poor, but it's also poorly coached. They are mutually exclusive and can both be true.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 03, 2019, 04:35:17 PM
I think it was in the game recap thread, but I specifically said it wasn't just the coaching, nor just the play on the field, nor just the talent (or lack thereof) that lost this week. It was all 3.

This roster is poor, but it's also poorly coached. They are mutually exclusive and can both be true.

Thank you, no one is saying he's 100% of the problem but he sucks.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 04, 2019, 12:10:21 PM
Starting to get worried that we lose out the rest of the season. Hope we don't.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on December 04, 2019, 12:13:33 PM
Starting to get worried that we lose out the rest of the season. Hope we don't.

Long as Darnold is healthy there's 0 chance of that
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 04, 2019, 12:15:42 PM
Long as Darnold is healthy there's 0 chance of that
Ravens, Steelers, and Bills are all better than us. We've already lost to Miami once.

I'm not predicting 0-4 down the stretch but it's entirely reasonable.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2019, 12:19:00 PM
Ravens, Steelers, and Bills are all better than us. We've already lost to Miami once.

I'm not predicting 0-4 down the stretch but it's entirely reasonable.

Our starting secondary might not be playing this Sunday
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: bojanglesman on December 04, 2019, 12:35:08 PM
The only hope we have of beating the Dolphins is that its a home game.  We seem to play a little better there.  Fitz is competent enough to beat our depleted defense.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 04, 2019, 12:39:35 PM
The only hope we have of beating the Dolphins is that its a home game.  We seem to play a little better there.  Fitz is competent enough to beat our depleted defense.

Won 3 of the last 4 at home, loss being to the Pats. Other two losses were by a point to Buffalo and the Cleveland game when we lost Simien and had to go with Falk.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: bojanglesman on December 04, 2019, 01:06:36 PM
I'm not sure how Gregg is going to continue propping up this defense after having to raid the local junior high for defensive backs.

Fitz may throw for 400 yards.  If Miami doesn't pass 80% of the time, I don't think they are trying.  It would be idiotic to run against the Jets with our lack of talent on the backend.  I'd throw deep all day.  It'll be completions and PI penalties all day.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 04, 2019, 01:20:38 PM
I'm not sure how Gregg is going to continue propping up this defense after having to raid the local junior high for defensive backs.

Fitz may throw for 400 yards.  If Miami doesn't pass 80% of the time, I don't think they are trying.  It would be idiotic to run against the Jets with our lack of talent on the backend.  I'd throw deep all day.  It'll be completions and PI penalties all day.

Hit Fitz in his ugly 18th century face, early and often.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 04, 2019, 01:44:13 PM
I'm not sure how Gregg is going to continue propping up this defense after having to raid the local junior high for defensive backs.

Fitz may throw for 400 yards.  If Miami doesn't pass 80% of the time, I don't think they are trying.  It would be idiotic to run against the Jets with our lack of talent on the backend.  I'd throw deep all day.  It'll be completions and PI penalties all day.

Isn't this exactly what Cincy did all day? Teams will throw against the Jets until they show them they can't stop it. Spoiler: they won't.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 04, 2019, 02:40:57 PM
Here's an article from Costello today:

NY Post (https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/jets-screwed-up-chance-to-steal-afc-east-from-patriots/)

Interesting premise but I think he's being kind of dramatic for a few reasons:

-Patriots are still 10-2 and their demise has been written up many times. Still, they can't last forever.
-Buffalo isn't the next dynasty. They could be having a good season and still be a Wild Card like we were during the 2000s.
-Darnold and Allen both figure to hit their primes around the time Brady and Belichick are done, so we're early in the process.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 07, 2019, 08:55:51 AM
https://v.redd.it/hrhcjvo594341
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2019, 09:29:18 PM
It's official btw

https://twitter.com/MMehtaNYDN/status/1203835001118380032?s=19
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2019, 09:29:51 PM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1203831998328004608?s=19
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 08, 2019, 09:59:07 PM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1203831998328004608?s=19

It'll be 10 straight after next year as long as this bag of dildos, remains our HC
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2019, 10:13:52 PM
It'll be 10 straight after next year as long as this bag of dildos, remains our HC
To be fair Herm is widely regarded as kind of an idiot among Jets fans and he went 3 times in 5 years. So there's a chance.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
To be fair Herm is widely regarded as kind of an idiot among Jets fans and he went 3 times in 5 years. So there's a chance.

yeah but...Herm plays to win the game.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: WD40 on December 09, 2019, 07:49:03 AM
Herm, for all his faults, was an unbelievable motivator at times.  YOU PLAY ... TO WIN ... THE GAME!  HELLO?

freak, that man could give a goddamned speech. 

I was taking my son to basketball practice last week and there, right on the goddamned door to the gym, was some fluff quote from Herm Edwards on high school athletics. 

Anyway, on topic, this discussion of the last time the team was this depressing.  It occurred to me that my son, now eight years old, actually attended the last Jets playoff game.  My wife, about two months pregnant, went with me to the cold-as-freak Pittsburgh playoff game in 2010.  Poor kid has never seen a good Jets team in his lifetime.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 09, 2019, 10:13:21 AM
To be fair Herm is widely regarded as kind of an idiot among Jets fans and he went 3 times in 5 years. So there's a chance.

Fans are often idiots themselves. Herm did a good job here, had his deficiencies but got results. The two years he lost Pennington hurt his record, especially the last one when he checked out and we all knew he was going to KC.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 12:56:21 PM
Fans are often idiots themselves. Herm did a good job here, had his deficiencies but got results. The two years he lost Pennington hurt his record, especially the last one when he checked out and we all knew he was going to KC.

Agree with your point on Herm.

Gase will be the worst coaching hire in franchise history.  He even surpasses Kotite, because Gase has a potential franchise QB and he's single-handedly ruining him.  We're not sniffing the playoffs with this asshat HC who's more focused on proving his excrement offensive scheme works versus trying to develop an offense that plays to Sam's strengths.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 01:29:43 PM
Agree with your point on Herm.

Gase will be the worst coaching hire in franchise history.  He even surpasses Kotite, because Gase has a potential franchise QB and he's single-handedly ruining him.  We're not sniffing the playoffs with this asshat HC who's more focused on proving his excrement offensive scheme works versus trying to develop an offense that plays to Sam's strengths.

Gase is 4-1 in his last 5 games. Kotite was 4-28 in 2 seasons.

Darnold has 11 TD (9 Pass TD) and 2 Int in that stretch.

But sure, he is worse than Kotite and Darnold is ruined.

#shitpost
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: bojanglesman on December 09, 2019, 01:31:40 PM
Gase is 4-1 in his last 5 games. Kotite was 4-28 in 2 seasons.

Darnold has 11 TD (9 Pass TD) and 2 Int in that stretch.

But sure, he is worse than Kotite and Darnold is ruined.

#shitpost
While some of your post is valid, keep in mind we haven't exactly played a bunch of Super Bowl contenders in the last 5 games.

Gase can be shitty and not as bad as Kotite at the same time.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2019, 01:32:55 PM
While some of your post is valid, keep in mind we haven't exactly played a bunch of Super Bowl contenders in the last 5 games.

We beat a 3-9 team on a last minute FG.  We can hang with anybody.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 01:37:51 PM
While some of your post is valid, keep in mind we haven't exactly played a bunch of Super Bowl contenders in the last 5 games.

Gase can be shitty and not as bad as Kotite at the same time.

Exactly. It is just hard to take posts seriously when they say Gase is worse than Kotite.

I dont care if they fire Gase after the season but people blame every one of the issues for this team on Gase and it is far deeper than that
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 01:42:52 PM
Exactly. It is just hard to take posts seriously when they say Gase is worse than Kotite.

I dont care if they fire Gase after the season but people blame every one of the issues for this team on Gase and it is far deeper than that

I mean if you want to say Kotite's the worst and Gase is #2, that's fine. 

excrement, look how well Tannehill is playing in Tennessee with some no name OC.  I doubt he was ever that productive in Miami under the tutelage of this fucktard. 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 09, 2019, 01:44:44 PM
Gase will be the worst coaching hire in franchise history. 

There's issuing a factual criticism of the guy because there are things he does that makes one scratch their head, and then there's just idiotic hyperbole thats being said out of no other interest than wanting to be right.

This is absurd on so many levels.

Darnold's completing passes at a 63 percent clip with a positive td to int ratio despite not having a true number 1 receiver or any semblance of an offensive line, but sure he's ruined.

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 01:44:47 PM
Gase is 4-1 in his last 5 games. Kotite was 4-28 in 2 seasons.

Darnold has 11 TD (9 Pass TD) and 2 Int in that stretch.

But sure, he is worse than Kotite and Darnold is ruined.

#shitpost

 We lost to a WINLESS team and looked freaking terrible in doing so. You don't want to put any of the onus on him?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 01:46:10 PM
Gase isnt even worse than Bowles. Maybe he will be but he certainly isnt yet.

I know nobody wants to hear it but I dont think our 5-8 record is underachieving given our talent level.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 01:52:13 PM
There's issuing a factual criticism of the guy because there are things he does that makes one scratch their head, and then there's just idiotic hyperbole thats being said out of no other interest than wanting to be right.

This is absurd on so many levels.

Darnold's completing passes at a 63 percent clip with a positive td to int ratio despite not having a true number 1 receiver or any semblance of an offensive line, but sure he's ruined.



He played at a similar level during the last four games of 2018 with a guy who was roaming Mongolia before becoming our OC, so his performance already trending upward.  Sam's performance this year would be the same if not better with any other HC in the league.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 01:52:58 PM
We lost to a WINLESS team and looked freaking terrible in doing so. You don't want to put any of the onus on him?
The Jets are a bad team with all our injuries. That was a bad loss but this team isn't talented enough to expect to win road games against anyone consistently.

Sorry Gase only went 4-1 instead of 5-0 with this team.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Pope on December 09, 2019, 01:53:48 PM
I’m no fan of Gase, never was, but I just don’t have enough information to judge him accurately. This has been a really stupid season with half our team on IR and Sam getting freaking mono of all things. We’ve put up some absolutely excrement tier performances and had some nice games as well. If he’s fired at the end of the year I’ll completely understand but if he stays on for next season I don’t think it’s exactly wrong either.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 01:58:43 PM
The Jets are a bad team with all our injuries. That was a bad loss but this team isn't talented enough to expect to win road games against anyone consistently.

Sorry Gase only went 4-1 instead of 5-0 with this team.

C'mon man, we looked noncompetitive in that game.  You want to give him a free pass when Sam was out, fine.
But, the offense can't look that inept when you have your starting QB and just beat Oakland. 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 02:00:54 PM
Iím no fan of Gase, never was, but I just donít have enough information to judge him accurately. This has been a really stupid season with half our team on IR and Sam getting freaking mono of all things. Weíve put up some absolutely excrement tier performances and had some nice games as well. If heís fired at the end of the year Iíll completely understand but if he stays on for next season I donít think itís exactly wrong either.

Y U NO HATE GASE MOAR?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 02:01:45 PM
C'mon man, we looked noncompetitive in that game.  You want to give him a free pass when Sam was out, fine.
But, the offense can't look that inept when you have your starting QB and just beat Oakland. 

So if we lost to Oakland and beat Cincinnati, you would be okay?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2019, 02:02:29 PM
I hate the fact we're gonna burn another season because our owner is more concerned with saving face over a dumb hire....right after we wasted 3 seasons with Bowles.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2019, 02:03:01 PM
So if we lost to Oakland and beat Cincinnati, you would be okay?

it would've made more sense
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 09, 2019, 03:54:49 PM
We lost to a WINLESS team and looked freaking terrible in doing so. You don't want to put any of the onus on him?
Atcherly we lost to two winless teams.

I'm not joining in the hyperbole about where he sits in the extensive pantheon of excrement Jets coaches, but the playcalling in the second half yesterday was absolutely rotten. He doesn't seem to understand the game that's actually happening on the field, only the one that he has written down in his book. I think he spends the week watching video and preparing for the game he thinks he's going to see, then sticks to that plan regardless of what actually happens on gameday.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: delavan on December 09, 2019, 06:02:49 PM
He doesn't seem to understand the game that's actually happening on the field, only the one that he has written down in his book.
I think he spends the week watching video and preparing for the game he thinks he's going to see, then sticks to that plan regardless of what actually happens on gameday.
Meaning he's a glorified quality control coach with no true feel for the game?  I wouldn't disagree.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 09, 2019, 06:46:31 PM
Atcherly we lost to two winless teams.

I'm not joining in the hyperbole about where he sits in the extensive pantheon of excrement Jets coaches, but the playcalling in the second half yesterday was absolutely rotten. He doesn't seem to understand the game that's actually happening on the field, only the one that he has written down in his book. I think he spends the week watching video and preparing for the game he thinks he's going to see, then sticks to that plan regardless of what actually happens on gameday.

Spot on
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 09, 2019, 07:22:04 PM
Meaning he's a glorified quality control coach with no true feel for the game?  I wouldn't disagree.


Maybe a bit more than that, I assume that he's the one designing the plays as well. I think he's probably a QB coach / passing game co-ordinator who understands the game on a conceptual level, but hasn't ever figured out how to react to what the defense is doing. It would explain why our opening drive often looks good, and why on occasion we can look really good for most or all of a game - the opening drive is scripted and the defense is still feeling out what we're doing, and sometimes defenses just don't react well. And I know you can't read too much into TV images of a coach's demeanour, but it would also explain why literally every single sideline shot of Gase during a game is head down in a playbook. Maybe he honestly believes the answer to things not working is for the players to execute his plays better rather than to change the plays up.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 10, 2019, 02:09:12 AM
Maybe a bit more than that, I assume that he's the one designing the plays as well. I think he's probably a QB coach / passing game co-ordinator who understands the game on a conceptual level, but hasn't ever figured out how to react to what the defense is doing. It would explain why our opening drive often looks good, and why on occasion we can look really good for most or all of a game - the opening drive is scripted and the defense is still feeling out what we're doing, and sometimes defenses just don't react well. And I know you can't read too much into TV images of a coach's demeanour, but it would also explain why literally every single sideline shot of Gase during a game is head down in a playbook. Maybe he honestly believes the answer to things not working is for the players to execute his plays better rather than to change the plays up.
I think the biggest reason for our inconsistency is our offensive line. I feel we have moved the ball well when we haven't had penalties, sacks and drops. 2 of the 3 of those are directly on the OL. And when we end up off script, we've been dead. Lately, we actually have converted a few 3rd and longs but that is still rare. The success on opening drives I think is largely because we have a brand new offense and being able to have reps on the practice squad makes them better at executing it. And part of it is fluky.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 10, 2019, 11:14:21 AM
Way too early for any of these comparisons, guy is 5-8 here. So far he's closer to Bruce Coslet than anyone.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 10, 2019, 11:49:18 AM
Exactly. It is just hard to take posts seriously when they say Gase is worse than Kotite.

I dont care if they fire Gase after the season but people blame every one of the issues for this team on Gase and it is far deeper than that

You keep repeating this straw man argument.

Everyone who wants to fire him because he's an awful coach also says this roster is terrible. Again, both things are mutually exclusive and can be (are) true.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 10, 2019, 11:53:04 AM
Maybe a bit more than that, I assume that he's the one designing the plays as well. I think he's probably a QB coach / passing game co-ordinator who understands the game on a conceptual level, but hasn't ever figured out how to react to what the defense is doing. It would explain why our opening drive often looks good, and why on occasion we can look really good for most or all of a game - the opening drive is scripted and the defense is still feeling out what we're doing, and sometimes defenses just don't react well. And I know you can't read too much into TV images of a coach's demeanour, but it would also explain why literally every single sideline shot of Gase during a game is head down in a playbook. Maybe he honestly believes the answer to things not working is for the players to execute his plays better rather than to change the plays up.

I mean, that's literally what he says in his postgame press conferences after every single loss.

I mentioned it yesterday, the only times he's "taken blame" for not making good play calls has been after wins. Really bold of the guy to take a share of the blame when no one is pissed off they lost. And even then, he still said they could've executed better.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 10, 2019, 12:53:59 PM
You keep repeating this straw man argument.

Everyone who wants to fire him because he's an awful coach also says this roster is terrible. Again, both things are mutually exclusive and can be (are) true.

So he's a terrible coach who's managed to go .500 with a terrible roster when he has his starting quarterback?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 10, 2019, 01:19:15 PM
So he's a terrible coach who's managed to go .500 with a terrible roster when he has his starting quarterback?

So you think Adam Gase won the Miami game? Not Sam Darnold somehow connecting with Vyncint Smith? Nor thanks to a gift by replay officials that got them an overturn on an uncalled DPI? Nor because Greg Williams prepared a mediocre defense to hold a great red zone offense to nothing but field goals?

It really comes down to whether you believe his teams win because of him or in spite of him. Needless to say, I fall into the latter category.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 10, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
So you think Adam Gase won the Miami game? Not Sam Darnold somehow connecting with Vyncint Smith? Nor thanks to a gift by replay officials that got them an overturn on an uncalled DPI? Nor because Greg Williams prepared a mediocre defense to hold a great red zone offense to nothing but field goals?

It really comes down to whether you believe his teams win because of him or in spite of him. Needless to say, I fall into the latter category.

I'm not going to classify that as a gift considering the calls that went against the Jets, specifically the ridiculous roughing the passer call on Shep and the holding call on the interception. Not to mention the fact that the play in question actually was actually pass interference.

By virtue of being the head coach, it goes as a win on his record, does it not? If you can acknowledge that the talent on this team is wanting, or "terrible" as you call it (and I agree, certain position groups you can argue are the worst in the league), then surely a guy who can put up a .500 record with said terrible talent can't be that bad a head coach.

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 02:04:25 PM
I'm not going to classify that as a gift considering the calls that went against the Jets, specifically the ridiculous roughing the passer call on Shep and the holding call on the interception. Not to mention the fact that the play in question actually was actually pass interference.

By virtue of being the head coach, it goes as a win on his record, does it not? If you can acknowledge that the talent on this team is wanting, or "terrible" as you call it (and I agree, certain position groups you can argue are the worst in the league), then surely a guy who can put up a .500 record with said terrible talent can't be that bad a head coach.



Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense.  Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.

Tomlin = a good HC

Gase = a fraud
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 10, 2019, 02:08:41 PM
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense.  Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games. 

Tomlin = a good HC

Gase = a fraud

THIS
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 10, 2019, 02:09:17 PM
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense.  Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games. 

Tomlin = a good HC

Gase = a fraud

He's also been there long time and they have a system in place. That's what happens when you don't fire the coach every year.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 02:10:34 PM
He's also been there long time and they have a system in place. That's what happens when you don't fire the coach every year.

He also won a Super Bowl in his 2nd year as a HC....and made it to the playoffs in his rookie HC year.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 10, 2019, 02:18:28 PM
So you think Adam Gase won the Miami game? Not Sam Darnold somehow connecting with Vyncint Smith? Nor thanks to a gift by replay officials that got them an overturn on an uncalled DPI? Nor because Greg Williams prepared a mediocre defense to hold a great red zone offense to nothing but field goals?

It really comes down to whether you believe his teams win because of him or in spite of him. Needless to say, I fall into the latter category.
I forgot. Good plays are because Darnold is a stud. Bad plays are because Gase sucks.
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense.  Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.

Tomlin = a good HC

Gase = a fraud
The Steelets have a very good OL and an elite defense. No doubt Tomlin has fone a great job but the Steelers are very talented outside QB.

I don't love Gaee but saying good plays are because Darnold is good and bad plays is because Gase is bad is impossible to argue against. You could also argue that if Darnold hit any number of an open receivers he missed, we would have won by 2 touchdowns. But I know Darnold missing throws is all on Gase.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 10, 2019, 02:20:22 PM
I forgot. Good plays are because Darnold is a stud. Bad plays are because Gase sucks.The Steelets have a very good OL and an elite defense. No doubt Tomlin has fone a great job but the Steelers are very talented outside QB.

I don't love Gaee but saying good plays are because Darnold is good and bad plays is because Gase is bad is impossible to argue against. You could also argue that if Darnold hit any number of an open receivers he missed, we would have won by 2 touchdowns. But I know Darnold missing throws is all on Gase.

Get on with the times. Everything is on Gase.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 02:29:25 PM
Get on with the times. Everything is on Gase.

You're right. His impeccable pedigree, history and offensive mind are on par with Bill Walsh.  Reward that piece of teflon with a 10 year extension.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 10, 2019, 02:30:29 PM
You're right. His impeccable pedigree, history and offensive mind are on par with Bill Walsh.  Reward that piece of teflon with a 10 year extension.
Good job arguing against nobody. Well done
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 02:38:16 PM
Good job arguing against nobody. Well done

Did we sign him yet?  We're wasting time.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 10, 2019, 03:15:09 PM
I forgot. Good plays are because Darnold is a stud. Bad plays are because Gase sucks.The Steelets have a very good OL and an elite defense. No doubt Tomlin has fone a great job but the Steelers are very talented outside QB.

I don't love Gaee but saying good plays are because Darnold is good and bad plays is because Gase is bad is impossible to argue against. You could also argue that if Darnold hit any number of an open receivers he missed, we would have won by 2 touchdowns. But I know Darnold missing throws is all on Gase.

I think the vast majority of playcalls are atrocious all game long. I also think Darnold keeps making salads out of the chicken excrement Gase provides him. It's not a "Gase is responsible for the bad plays, and Darnold is responsible for the good ones." It's "Gase keeps calling excrement plays and Darnold has the talent to make things happen."

Get on with the times. Everything is on Gase.

See next quote:

Good job arguing against nobody. Well done
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 10, 2019, 05:59:15 PM
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense.  Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.

Tomlin = a good HC

Gase = a fraud
To be fair you'd probably turn on Tomlin in 20 games.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 10, 2019, 07:18:49 PM
To be fair you'd probably turn on Tomlin in 20 games.

You're exaggerating by 19 games  :P
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 07:59:31 PM
To be fair you'd probably turn on Tomlin in 20 games.
Just win babbie
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 10, 2019, 08:13:10 PM
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense.  Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.

Tomlin = a good HC

Gase = a fraud

Mike Tomlin's also been that franchise's head coach for over a decade.  Everyone on that roster is someone he's cool with having.

Their front office also isn't a revolving door like ours has been.

He's done a hell of a job and should be the coach of the year, but that franchise has stability from top to bottom.  Ours does not. 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 10, 2019, 09:32:21 PM
Mike Tomlin's also been that franchise's head coach for over a decade.  Everyone on that roster is someone he's cool with having.

Their front office also isn't a revolving door like ours has been.

He's done a hell of a job and should be the coach of the year, but that franchise has stability from top to bottom.  Ours does not. 

Bingo
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 11, 2019, 09:18:33 AM
In what freaking world does stability and hiring complete excrement equal out.

Stability is great but not when you have the parade of crap the Jets have had from Tanny and Rex thru Duff and Gase. Every single one of those clowns was given the appropriate amount of leash to hang themselves. So freak off with the stability Bullshit. Hire the right people for  freaking once and there will be stability

But hey thanks for telling us excrement we already know.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 09:20:28 AM
In what freaking world does stability and hiring complete excrement equal out.

Stability is great but not when you have the parade of crap the Jets have had from Tanny and Rex thru Duff and Gase. Every single one of those clowns was given the appropriate amount of leash to hang themselves. So freak off with the stability Bullshit. Hire the right people for  freaking one and there will be stability

But hey thanks for telling us excrement we already know.


This guy gets it.

Seafood should read this post a few times too, and let it sink in.



Heis was right, this franchise is a revolving door...it's because they keep hiring turds.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 10:20:46 AM
This guy gets it.

Seafood should read this post a few times too, and let it sink in.



Heis was right, this franchise is a revolving door...it's because they keep hiring turds.

So you want the same people to hire someone else. Makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 11, 2019, 10:34:38 AM
So you want the same people to hire someone else. Makes perfect sense.

They will until the team is sold, so....
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 10:50:29 AM
So you want the same people to hire someone else. Makes perfect sense.
If you've been paying attention, I think that MB has been very clear that that isn't what he wants.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 11:01:43 AM
So you want the same people to hire someone else. Makes perfect sense.

So you're proposing we keep the trash that consistenly lose games  rather than taking a chance on the unknown.  Got it.  That really paid dividends with Rex and Bowles.

Friendly reminder:  Gase isn't a rookie HC.  He doesn't get the 1 or 2 season mulligan.


If you've been paying attention, I think that MB has been very clear that that isn't what he wants.


i could stamp it on his forehead and he'd still wouldn't get it.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 01:07:51 PM
If you've been paying attention, I think that MB has been very clear that that isn't what he wants.

So you guys are just completely outside the realm of reality, because they're not selling the team, either. That's where our disconnect is, I look at actual reality and hope for the best within those confines.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 01:12:14 PM
So you guys are just completely outside the realm of reality, because they're not selling the team, either. That's where our disconnect is, I look at actual reality and hope for the best within those confines.
No. Stop guessing and start paying attention, it will help to prevent you from looking stupid. Ask the question you should be asking.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
No. Stop guessing and start paying attention, it will help to prevent you from looking stupid. Ask the question you should be asking.

I don't know what you're talking about and I have no real interest in this argument because we already know they're not firing the coach. So you guys can scream and yell about it all you want, blame everything that happens on him, he's back next year. Sorry, I don't own the team either.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 01:46:15 PM
I don't know what you're talking about and I have no real interest in this argument because we already know they're not firing the coach. So you guys can scream and yell about it all you want, blame everything that happens on him, he's back next year. Sorry, I don't own the team either.

We all know he's back next year.  But you were advocating to keep him because this team lacks stability.


As far as 2020 goes, if he isn't winning games, he's gone.  That's how the NFL works.  If you're not winning, then it's only a matter of time.  Rex produced in his first 2 years as HC, so he was rewarded with another contract, and then declined steadily over his last 4 years.  Coaches in any professional sport will tell you, they get hired to get fired.


You guys keep using Tomlin as a model of stability.  Guess what...he freaking wins.  That's why he's still there.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 02:06:28 PM
We all know he's back next year.  But you were advocating to keep him because this team lacks stability.


As far as 2020 goes, if he isn't winning games, he's gone.  That's how the NFL works.  If you're not winning, then it's only a matter of time.  Rex produced in his first 2 years as HC, so he was rewarded with another contract, and then declined steadily over his last 4 years.  Coaches in any professional sport will tell you, they get hired to get fired.


You guys keep using Tomlin as a model of stability.  Guess what...he freaking wins.  That's why he's still there.

You keep bringing up Tomlin, we're trying to tell you why he can win when they lose players. Because they've had two coaches in 30 years, three in 50 years, everyone fits and knows the system. We can only accomplish that here if we don't replace the coach every time the natives get restless, like the first half of the first season when you lose your top two QBs.

If you know Gase is back next year, which is what we've been told specifically, what are the pages of "fire him now" arguments going to do? In my opinion the chances of the team doing better with Darnold having a second year in the same system are greater than the chances the Johnsons go out this winter and making the perfect hire. So to me the right move is go with this for right now, more about Darnold than Gase. It wouldn't be the first time a QB has made a coach look better than he is. If he does have to learn another new offense, again, we'll probably struggle early--again--next year and you guys will all want that coach fired.

Regarding Rex, I get why he was fired but it's a whole different argument. Once a coach proves he can win I'm reluctant to just fire him for change sake, because the chances are very good you get someone worse. And that's exactly what happened. 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: ScotlandJet on December 11, 2019, 02:09:55 PM
So you guys are just completely outside the realm of reality, because they're not selling the team, either. That's where our disconnect is, I look at actual reality and hope for the best within those confines.

I'm with I.S as usual. When you reach a certain vintage in life you start to realize that your ambition of being around for winning the big one is vanishing sharply and you have to take what this awful franchise affords you. I'll still keep hoping.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 02:34:38 PM
You keep bringing up Tomlin, we're trying to tell you why he can win when they lose players. Because they've had two coaches in 30 years, three in 50 years, everyone fits and knows the system. We can only accomplish that here if we don't replace the coach every time the natives get restless, like the first half of the first season when you lose your top two QBs.

If you know Gase is back next year, which is what we've been told specifically, what are the pages of "fire him now" arguments going to do? In my opinion the chances of the team doing better with Darnold having a second year in the same system are greater than the chances the Johnsons go out this winter and making the perfect hire. So to me the right move is go with this for right now, more about Darnold than Gase. It wouldn't be the first time a QB has made a coach look better than he is. If he does have to learn another new offense, again, we'll probably struggle early--again--next year and you guys will all want that coach fired.

Regarding Rex, I get why he was fired but it's a whole different argument. Once a coach proves he can win I'm reluctant to just fire him for change sake, because the chances are very good you get someone worse. And that's exactly what happened. 

lol
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 02:38:28 PM


I don't know what you're talking about

Clearly. Which is why I said you should ask MB what he thinks the correct approach is (one that he, I and many others have advocated many times, and for longer than Gase's short and miserable tenure) rather than making excrement up and looking stupid.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 02:42:24 PM

Clearly. Which is why I said you should ask MB what he thinks the correct approach is (one that he, I and many others have advocated many times, and for longer than Gase's short and miserable tenure) rather than making excrement up and looking stupid.

You're assuming I care what you and him think.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 02:47:26 PM
You're assuming I care what you and him think.

Not everybody can handle the truth.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 03:09:32 PM
Not everybody can handle the truth.

Like the owner and coach are staying?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 03:18:30 PM
I'm with I.S as usual. When you reach a certain vintage in life you start to realize that your ambition of being around for winning the big one is vanishing sharply and you have to take what this awful franchise affords you. I'll still keep hoping.

I mean there are times when it's obvious that changes need to be made, other times when it could go either way, and times where you just made the changes and have to stick by them to see how it works. To me we are clearly in the latter, I don't see any way we aren't.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 03:38:53 PM
Like the owner and coach are staying?

Nobody said the owner was going anywhere, not sure why you keep bringing that up....I’ll chalk it up to you being illiterate.

The coach is on borrowed time...if not this offseason, definitely next year.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 11, 2019, 03:39:29 PM
I mean there are times when it's obvious that changes need to be made, other times when it could go either way, and times where you just made the changes and have to stick by them to see how it works. To me we are clearly in the latter, I don't see any way we aren't.

If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?

The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.

I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 03:51:21 PM
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?

The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.

I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.

You might end up being right eventually, I don't know, but the majority of what you seem angry about is what you think is going to happen next year.  If you have a healthy Darnold in Week 1 with the command of the offense he has now, and had at the end of last year, we're probably going to be in contention. Gase doesn't have to be a genius, we've seen a good QB like Chad Pennington get the likes of Herm, Mangini and Sprano to the playoffs. I mentioned Belichick's 5-11 in 2000, they were 0-2 the next year before we knocked Bledsoe out and Brady came in. It's a QB-centric league, while I appreciate the concern for keeping Adams and Bell, and we should, job #1 is maximizing the QB we were lucky to get.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2019, 03:53:12 PM
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?

The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.

I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.

If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.

There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 03:57:39 PM
You're seeing ghosts.

LOL that's cold.

Quote
I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.

Also a good point. Some people here (MBGreen) have a little trouble distinguishing a coach from a GM. He was hired in June, hasn't even had a go at it yet.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 04:05:36 PM


There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.

You're missing a fundamental point here - in fact, the same one that Seafood has been.

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 04:06:24 PM


Also a good point. Some people here (MBGreen) have a little trouble distinguishing a coach from a GM. He was hired in June, hasn't even had a go at it yet.

I'm not asking for Joe Douglas to be fired.

Your problem is you can't accept the fact a coach has input on the roster.  Rex had plenty of influence on the roster when he was here (at the draft, in free agency, etc etc). He didn't sit idly on his thumb while the GM made all the roster decisions. They work together. That's probably where the gap is between your reality and everyone else's.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 04:08:05 PM

You're missing a fundamental point here - in fact, the same one that Seafood has been.



So are you going to enlighten us with this higher wisdom that only you and MBGreen are aware of? Or are you just playing 4D chess while us dummies are down here thinking the Johnsons own the team and hired a coach we didn't want?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 04:12:26 PM
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?

The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.

I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.

This is why it's infuriating.  The longer we hang onto Gase, the longer it will take to undo all his excrement.  Look at what Miami is going through, that'll be us after we fire that clown.

Seafood thinks i want to fire coaches because it's a hobby of mine or something.  I'm tired of losing. Gase brought the same tendencies he had in Miami to NY.  He's not the answer, and he still won't be the answer when the roster is healthy.  Hell, it sounds like he wants to get rid of Jamal and Leveon too....hasn't Seafood been slamming his hand on the table saying the team should be surrounding Darnold with better players? 

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 11, 2019, 04:17:25 PM
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.

If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.

There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.

And you keep ignoring that he's already done the same things we're worried he's going to do again. Hell, he's already thrown fits about personnel since he's been here.

I don't want to wind up pissed off because I have to watch Jamal Adams be an elite safety for the next 8 years in Dallas. I don't want to be pissed off because Le'Veon Bell is lighting up the stat sheet back in Pittsburgh. I want those guys here, helping the Jets.

Gase has so far shown us he's not at all unlike the stories that came out--and continue to come out--of Miami. He's petulant, vindictive, puts together poor game plans, refuses to adjust or use players properly, points fingers and throws people under the bus. If you "don't think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season" then I don't see any way to convince you, but I think you're completely wrong.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 11, 2019, 04:18:42 PM
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.

If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.

There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.

A-freaking-men.

Couldn't say it better myself. This is the same thing I've tried to argue for a few weeks now, but it's hard to get through all the "FIRE GASE" screaming it seems.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 04:20:11 PM
And you keep ignoring that he's already done the same things we're worried he's going to do again. Hell, he's already thrown fits about personnel since he's been here.

I don't want to wind up pissed off because I have to watch Jamal Adams be an elite safety for the next 8 years in Dallas. I don't want to be pissed off because Le'Veon Bell is lighting up the stat sheet back in Pittsburgh. I want those guys here, helping the Jets.

Gase has so far shown us he's not at all unlike the stories that came out--and continue to come out--of Miami. He's petulant, vindictive, puts together poor game plans, refuses to adjust or use players properly, points fingers and throws people under the bus. If you "don't think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season" then I don't see any way to convince you, but I think you're completely wrong.

Bang on.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 11, 2019, 04:21:01 PM
This is why it's infuriating.  The longer we hang onto Gase, the longer it will take to undo all his excrement.  Look at what Miami is going through, that'll be us after we fire that clown.

Seafood thinks i want to fire coaches because it's a hobby of mine or something.  I'm tired of losing. Gase brought the same tendencies he had in Miami to NY.  He's not the answer, and he still won't be the answer when the roster is healthy.  Hell, it sounds like he wants to get rid of Jamal and Leveon too....hasn't Seafood been slamming his hand on the table saying the team should be surrounding Darnold with better players?

Exactly.

As I said, I'll be angry enough to set things on fire if Gase gets his way and runs Jamal and Le'Veon out of town. Either way, he'll be gone 3 years from now. Those two should still be here for the next regime.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 04:28:59 PM
This is why it's infuriating.  The longer we hang onto Gase, the longer it will take to undo all his excrement.  Look at what Miami is going through, that'll be us after we fire that clown.

Seafood thinks i want to fire coaches because it's a hobby of mine or something.  I'm tired of losing. Gase brought the same tendencies he had in Miami to NY.  He's not the answer, and he still won't be the answer when the roster is healthy.  Hell, it sounds like he wants to get rid of Jamal and Leveon too....hasn't Seafood been slamming his hand on the table saying the team should be surrounding Darnold with better players? 

I'm in favor of keeping our good players, including Bell and Adams, yes. Unless Gase actually gets rid of one or both I'm not conflating one subject with the other. Again Douglas is the GM, not Gase.

We're all tired of losing. As I told you an hour ago, I like the chances of Darnold succeeding with a familiar offense more than I like the chances of the Johnsons suddenly hiring a better coach. Nobody was thrilled with getting Gase but we're here now, and to me the better way forward is making the most of a young franchise QB, rather than gambling on yet another Johnson hire.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 04:41:47 PM
I'm in favor of keeping our good players, including Bell and Adams, yes. Unless Gase actually gets rid of one or both I'm not conflating one subject with the other. Again Douglas is the GM, not Gase.

We're all tired of losing. As I told you an hour ago, I like the chances of Darnold succeeding with a familiar offense more than I like the chances of the Johnsons suddenly hiring a better coach. Nobody was thrilled with getting Gase but we're here now, and to me the better way forward is making the most of a young franchise QB, rather than gambling on yet another Johnson hire.

Dude...the GM and HC freaking work together.  What the freak?!


Do you think Gase is completely oblivious and kept out of the room when Douglas or Duff were making roster decisions?  You do realize there are some coaches in the league that have full autonomy over the roster, right?  There isn't an imaginary line drawn between the 2.  They work as a team on roster decisions. 


As far as keeping Gase...what have you seen from Gase that tells you he's the perfect candidate for this job? 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 04:54:25 PM
Dude...the GM and HC freaking work together.  What the freak?!


Do you think Gase is completely oblivious and kept out of the room when Douglas or Duff were making roster decisions?  You do realize there are some coaches in the league that have full autonomy over the roster, right?  There isn't an imaginary line drawn between the 2.  They work as a team on roster decisions. 


As far as keeping Gase...what have you seen from Gase that tells you he's the perfect candidate for this job? 

When did I say he's the perfect candidate for the job? I said he's here now and Darnold is in this offense, so it may do more harm than good to change it again. Especially since there is no guarantee we'd even be changing it for the better,

The GM/coach dynamic varies from team to team and is especially odd on our team. You seem to like to pick and choose who to credit and blame based on who you don't like and what argument you want to make at the moment.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 05:04:15 PM
When did I say he's the perfect candidate for the job? I said he's here now and Darnold is in this offense, so it may do more harm than good to change it again. Especially since there is no guarantee we'd even be changing it for the better

I agree that we shouldn't be changing the offense often because it's not ideal for Darnold's development.  But see, in this situation, Gase is a POS.  So, you believe keeping that around for a longer period of time is beneficial to him?  Let's go with "known trash"...that's your answer to developing our franchise QB.  Rather than risking another year to find a better fit for this team and preventing another season or 2 of cleaning up his roster mess.

Imagine being this ignorant.

Quote
You seem to like to pick and choose who to credit and blame based on who you don't like and what argument you want to make at the moment.


False
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 05:16:46 PM
I agree that we shouldn't be changing the offense often because it's not ideal for Darnold's development.  But see, in this situation, Gase is a POS.  So, you believe keeping that around for a longer period of time is beneficial to him?  Let's go with "known trash"...that's your answer to developing our franchise QB.  Rather than risking another year to find a better fit for this team and preventing another season or 2 of cleaning up his roster mess.

Imagine being this ignorant.
 

False

That's exactly what you do. You claim (as recently as today) that Rex won with Mangini's team, completely overlooking that Tannenbaum was the GM for both. You act like Rex suddenly forgot how to coach when Idzik replaced Tannenbaum, traded his best player and sent the roster spiraling downhill. Now you're worried about Gase getting rid of players when Douglas is the GM.

Regarding Gase, you're basing everything on your opinion and your predictions. Fact is he just got here, we're 5-8 with a questionable and banged up roster, and he took Miami to their only playoff game in over a decade. That's what we know for sure, what happens from here we don't know. Who is it you are so certain wants to come to a team that fires the coach after one season? And you know we can get him? What offense will be Darnold's third in three years?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 07:09:51 PM
So are you going to enlighten us with this higher wisdom that only you and MBGreen are aware of? Or are you just playing 4D chess while us dummies are down here thinking the Johnsons own the team and hired a coach we didn't want?

No, it's literally the conversation we've had multiple times on here but apparently you're not paying attention.

The structure is fucked. Douglas won't fire Gase because he can't, it's not his job. GM and coach both report to the owner, who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the sole. While people who don't understand football keep making the most important football decisions, this club is fucked.

You banging on about how we would entrust people who we believe have made repeated bad decisions to make the next one is just plain freaking ignorant, because it has been discussed enough times on here. We're not just whining about replacing the excrement coach that the idiot owner hired with another excrement coach that the idiot owner likes, we're asking for structural reform of the team so that it can be run like pretty much every other team that isn't run by a proper football man. Please try and make the effort to keep up because it isn't difficult.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2019, 07:28:50 PM
The structure is fucked. Douglas won't fire Gase because he can't, it's not his job. GM and coach both report to the owner, who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the sole. While people who don't understand football keep making the most important football decisions, this club is fucked.
Douglas has a long contract. He has power. If he wanted Gase out, he could probably make that appeal to ownership. We have no idea if Douglas wants to fire Gase. By all indications, Douglas wants to work with Gase.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 07:37:27 PM
Douglas has a long contract. He has power. If he wanted Gase out, he could probably make that appeal to ownership. We have no idea if Douglas wants to fire Gase. By all indications, Douglas wants to work with Gase.

Sure. I'm not arguing the case for what I think will happen, I'm arguing the case for what I think needs to happen if we're going to have any chance of seeing success. I'm aware that Gase will likely be here next year, but I'm not prepared to be remotely happy about or accepting of it, and I'm going to continue squealing about why it's a really terrible idea and why he isn't and has never been head coach material. I might even contribute to the next plane.

Adam Gase is an absolute fraud of a head coach.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 11, 2019, 07:56:23 PM
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?

The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.

I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.

I can't believe I was left out
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 11, 2019, 08:01:59 PM
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.

If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.

There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.

So you're settling for a head coach that's bad, but not THAT bad. In all seriousness, tell me ONE thing Gase has done to show you he's the right person for the job.

Also, Gase reports to the owner, so it's on Johnson fire him.

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 08:18:01 PM
No, it's literally the conversation we've had multiple times on here but apparently you're not paying attention.

The structure is fucked. Douglas won't fire Gase because he can't, it's not his job. GM and coach both report to the owner, who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the sole. While people who don't understand football keep making the most important football decisions, this club is fucked.

You banging on about how we would entrust people who we believe have made repeated bad decisions to make the next one is just plain freaking ignorant, because it has been discussed enough times on here. We're not just whining about replacing the excrement coach that the idiot owner hired with another excrement coach that the idiot owner likes, we're asking for structural reform of the team so that it can be run like pretty much every other team that isn't run by a proper football man. Please try and make the effort to keep up because it isn't difficult.

Ok, we have discussed this, I just alluded to it talking to MBGreen.

Guess what? That's not going to change either. Again, sorry. Reality is a real lover of the older lady.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2019, 08:34:40 PM
So you're settling for a head coach that's bad, but not THAT bad. In all seriousness, tell me ONE thing Gase has done to show you he's the right person for the job.

Also, Gase reports to the owner, so it's on Johnson fire him.

I don't know if he's bad, but Darnold has 11 total TD and 2 Int in his last 5 games. The franchise is based on Sam Darnold. That's all anyone said this offseason. So are you happy with Gase's development? It's been somewhat of a mixed bag, but I think it's been more positive than negative.

He's shown he can draw up opening drives that can score on a relatively consistent basis, after being the worst opening drive team in the NFL for years.

The team competed in pretty much every game despite massive injuries seemingly every week. The team has not quit on Gase.

People thought he and Gregg Williams were going to clash, but they haven't, and the defense has been surprisingly good given the injuries. Most of that goes to Williams, but Gase is the head coach, so he gets some credit and some blame for the whole team.


But really, it all comes down to Darnold. Darnold seems to love Gase. That's not enough reason to keep Gase around, but if we're happy with Darnold's development, we should keep Gase and let him develop in a system. Drafting a QB and giving him 3 different systems in 3 seasons is a poor idea. Especially since I'm sure a segment on this board will quit on whoever we hire next season by November, which is about 9 months longer than the leash many of you gave Gase.

What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Jumbo on December 11, 2019, 08:43:01 PM

But really, it all comes down to Darnold. Darnold seems to love Gase.

Who even knows if that's true - the QB is essentially obligated to say they like the HC
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 09:05:59 PM
So are you happy with Gase's development? It's been somewhat of a mixed bag, but I think it's been more positive than negative.

Holy excrement, are we watching the same games?

He's shown he can draw up opening drives that can score on a relatively consistent basis, after being the worst opening drive team in the NFL for years.

So? This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. No one is disputing his ability to watch video and draw up plays, he just has no idea how to call them at the right time. Again, he is a passing game co-ordinator and not a head coach or an OC.

The team competed in pretty much every game despite massive injuries seemingly every week. The team has not quit on Gase.

Really? Tell me more about how we competed against Philly or Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm not even mentioning the Patriots because, well, we've pretty much given up any hope of competing with them, haven't we? So, yay us for fighting hard against the 0-7 Dolphins and the the 0-11 Bengals, even if we did come up short against them. Great job Adam.

What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.

You mean apart from demonstrating that he's completely incapable of calling plays to respond to the defense that's on the field, and that he doesn't understand how to adapt his playbook to the players he has rather than building a playbook that takes advantage of the roster he has?

Are you seriously saying that you're OK with the club building a roster around a head coach who has failed at every senior coaching level when it has been on him to make it happen?

History is going to show Gase to be a complete fraud. He was Peyton's video and clipboard guy, then Chicago's failed OC, then Miami's failed HC, and now it's just magically going to all work out? He is the least qualified head coach in the NFL. 31 teams are laughing at us and you're defending him out of desperate hope that it will somehow work out.

Let me turn this around. What makes you think this is going to work?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2019, 10:03:50 PM
Holy excrement, are we watching the same games?

So? This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. No one is disputing his ability to watch video and draw up plays, he just has no idea how to call them at the right time. Again, he is a passing game co-ordinator and not a head coach or an OC.

Really? Tell me more about how we competed against Philly or Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm not even mentioning the Patriots because, well, we've pretty much given up any hope of competing with them, haven't we? So, yay us for fighting hard against the 0-7 Dolphins and the the 0-11 Bengals, even if we did come up short against them. Great job Adam.

You mean apart from demonstrating that he's completely incapable of calling plays to respond to the defense that's on the field, and that he doesn't understand how to adapt his playbook to the players he has rather than building a playbook that takes advantage of the roster he has?

Are you seriously saying that you're OK with the club building a roster around a head coach who has failed at every senior coaching level when it has been on him to make it happen?

History is going to show Gase to be a complete fraud. He was Peyton's video and clipboard guy, then Chicago's failed OC, then Miami's failed HC, and now it's just magically going to all work out? He is the least qualified head coach in the NFL. 31 teams are laughing at us and you're defending him out of desperate hope that it will somehow work out.

Let me turn this around. What makes you think this is going to work?
See, you make a few good points, and then you go to the same hyperbolic excrement that everyone else on the anti-Gase train can't wait to use.

The dude has made a playoff appearance in the NFL and coached one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history during his greatest season. Calling him the least qualified coach in the NFL is just stupid, and it makes it hard to take the rest of the post that seriously.

Obviously, he hasn't done a great job. I've said a lot that I don't hate the idea of firing him. But do you really think that we would be better than 5-8 with Matt Rhule or whoever you would have wanted? Probably not. This team has fatal issues that would make pretty much any head coach look bad.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2019, 11:15:46 PM
Hyperbolic:Gase::Swagger:Rex
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 12, 2019, 01:18:43 AM
Sure. I'm not arguing the case for what I think will happen, I'm arguing the case for what I think needs to happen if we're going to have any chance of seeing success. I'm aware that Gase will likely be here next year, but I'm not prepared to be remotely happy about or accepting of it, and I'm going to continue squealing about why it's a really terrible idea and why he isn't and has never been head coach material. I might even contribute to the next plane.

Adam Gase is an absolute fraud of a head coach.

Two thumbs up for this and the power structure post, bang on!
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 09:01:45 AM
Holy excrement, are we watching the same games?

So? This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. No one is disputing his ability to watch video and draw up plays, he just has no idea how to call them at the right time. Again, he is a passing game co-ordinator and not a head coach or an OC.

Really? Tell me more about how we competed against Philly or Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm not even mentioning the Patriots because, well, we've pretty much given up any hope of competing with them, haven't we? So, yay us for fighting hard against the 0-7 Dolphins and the the 0-11 Bengals, even if we did come up short against them. Great job Adam.

You mean apart from demonstrating that he's completely incapable of calling plays to respond to the defense that's on the field, and that he doesn't understand how to adapt his playbook to the players he has rather than building a playbook that takes advantage of the roster he has?

Are you seriously saying that you're OK with the club building a roster around a head coach who has failed at every senior coaching level when it has been on him to make it happen?

History is going to show Gase to be a complete fraud. He was Peyton's video and clipboard guy, then Chicago's failed OC, then Miami's failed HC, and now it's just magically going to all work out? He is the least qualified head coach in the NFL. 31 teams are laughing at us and you're defending him out of desperate hope that it will somehow work out.

Let me turn this around. What makes you think this is going to work?

Well said and 100% accurate
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2019, 10:26:16 AM
I can't believe I was left out

Very unintentional oversight, friend. I promise that when MB, JE, and AtF light the torches to lead the charge, LJF will be assured a spot in front with us. I believe SFD and Puck might need reservations as well.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2019, 10:49:33 AM
What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.

Those are just some things off the top of my head. And they don't include anything that hasn't happened this season so you can't even counter with an argument about what may or may not have happened in Miami previously, of which there are loads of issues--and really gets to the core of why many of us won't give him so much as an inch.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 12, 2019, 11:14:36 AM
  • Chose not to use the highly paid elite RB on the roster against the winless team that couldn't stop the run at any point prior to that game.
  • Didn't run the ball outside even when he did choose to run, despite it being the weakest part of that defense.
  • Publicly posted a shaming fine against a guy whose career is probably over for not showing up for a rehab.
  • Has blamed lack of execution in his postgame press conferences after every loss, and has only "taken blame" for bad playcalling after wins.
  • Snaked his way into getting the GM fired that had input into his hiring. After throwing a childish fit during and immediately after the draft.
  • Spoke out about not wanting to have paid Le'Veon Bell or CJ Mosley what Maccagnan did.
  • Shows no adjustments to game plans no matter how they're (not) working.
  • Has been seen at times sitting on the bench alone during games looking at his playsheets--is this what a head coach is supposed to do?
  • Doesn't throw his own challenge flag because "he's busy doing other things," like not managing the game.
  • Let's not forget that he supposedly didn't even know what was happening when Brian Winters allowed a safety then yelled at Darnold, then threw a fit on the sideline.

Those are just some things off the top of my head. And they don't include anything that hasn't happened this season so you can't even counter with an argument about what may or may not have happened in Miami previously, of which there are loads of issues--and really gets to the core of why many of us won't give him so much as an inch.

1- Agreed. Completely fair and factual criticism.
2- See #1.
3- The posting of the fines in the team facility is a bad look, Enunwa is also 100% wrong.
4- Overblown by Manish who's clearly operating with an agenda likely because he's not getting the access he previously enjoyed. Meh. I've heard him blame himself plenty after losses.
5- The best thing he's done here IMHO aside from having Sam play on a clear upward trajectory since the Jaguars game. Mac sucked.
6- I don't think he's ever said that.
7- Fair considering the second half performances for the most part, and I think especially reared its head after the Darnold INT last Sunday.
8- Yeah, Andy Reid does it most of the time he's not talking to his quarterback.
9- C'mon, really.
10- I don't recall so I can't comment on it except to say freak Brian Winters. 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 12, 2019, 11:22:47 AM
Can't wait for that season when nothing goes wrong.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 12, 2019, 12:07:37 PM
Can't wait for that season when nothing goes wrong.

Remember that time when you said something about Red Herrings and I asked if you knew what one actually was? Read your post as an example.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 12:12:01 PM
Can't wait for that season when nothing goes wrong.

Are you enjoying this season, the one where everything has gone wrong?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 12, 2019, 12:15:07 PM
  • Chose not to use the highly paid elite RB on the roster against the winless team that couldn't stop the run at any point prior to that game.
  • Didn't run the ball outside even when he did choose to run, despite it being the weakest part of that defense.
  • Publicly posted a shaming fine against a guy whose career is probably over for not showing up for a rehab.
  • Has blamed lack of execution in his postgame press conferences after every loss, and has only "taken blame" for bad playcalling after wins.
  • Snaked his way into getting the GM fired that had input into his hiring. After throwing a childish fit during and immediately after the draft.
  • Spoke out about not wanting to have paid Le'Veon Bell or CJ Mosley what Maccagnan did.
  • Shows no adjustments to game plans no matter how they're (not) working.
  • Has been seen at times sitting on the bench alone during games looking at his playsheets--is this what a head coach is supposed to do?
  • Doesn't throw his own challenge flag because "he's busy doing other things," like not managing the game.
  • Let's not forget that he supposedly didn't even know what was happening when Brian Winters allowed a safety then yelled at Darnold, then threw a fit on the sideline.
Those are just some things off the top of my head. And they don't include anything that hasn't happened this season so you can't even counter with an argument about what may or may not have happened in Miami previously, of which there are loads of issues--and really gets to the core of why many of us won't give him so much as an inch.

I will allow that what annoys me about Gase is contained in many of the examples above, some of the things I don't think deserve to be held against him. I don't know if he did or didn't know about Winters on the sideline but I do know that try asking Belichick that same question. He would say something snarky and you couldn't tell whether he knew or didn't. I know as a coach I wouldn't admit excrement and then handle it in house. Sitting on the sidelines himself, I don't know, there's so much substance from other crap that who really cares about this.


What a coach says in public is nonsnese. If he says lack of execution, he could be privately beating himself with a belt buckle (one could hope) over his lack of adjustments and always trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Going by his actions, I think he really believes he's the smartest guy in the room. That's ultimately going to be his downfall.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 12:48:02 PM
I don't know if he's bad, but Darnold has 11 total TD and 2 Int in his last 5 games. The franchise is based on Sam Darnold. That's all anyone said this offseason. So are you happy with Gase's development? It's been somewhat of a mixed bag, but I think it's been more positive than negative.

He's shown he can draw up opening drives that can score on a relatively consistent basis, after being the worst opening drive team in the NFL for years.

The team competed in pretty much every game despite massive injuries seemingly every week. The team has not quit on Gase.

People thought he and Gregg Williams were going to clash, but they haven't, and the defense has been surprisingly good given the injuries. Most of that goes to Williams, but Gase is the head coach, so he gets some credit and some blame for the whole team.


But really, it all comes down to Darnold. Darnold seems to love Gase. That's not enough reason to keep Gase around, but if we're happy with Darnold's development, we should keep Gase and let him develop in a system. Drafting a QB and giving him 3 different systems in 3 seasons is a poor idea. Especially since I'm sure a segment on this board will quit on whoever we hire next season by November, which is about 9 months longer than the leash many of you gave Gase.

What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.

Hell no.  I don't think Sam has grown/improved under Gase. His production this year is very similar to what he did in those final four games, so how did Gase help?

If we same a material difference in Sam's play and the offense was rolling & playing consistently, and we were still 5-8, I think many of us would be singing a different tune. But we're not.

And please don't mention the OL or injuries...Williams is doing a great job on D with dudes who are flipping burgers next year starting at multiple positions.

This dude thinks and acts like he's Belichick, as if he's the smartest guy in the room and he is the farthest thing from it.  He's been marginally pedestrian at all of his senior level coaching positions and he needs to GTFO

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 12, 2019, 01:10:40 PM
Are you enjoying this season, the one where everything has gone wrong?

Come on, not everything has gone wrong. After last season we made a prediction thread and most of us were looking at a 6-10, 7-9 season. We seem to be in pace for that. And that's the whole thing. It's difficult to take these arguments seriously when many times what you guys do is to overdramatize EVERY situation. There's a lot of excrement, there's some good things too. Gase sucks, he's not Kotite. There's shades of gray.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 01:14:29 PM
Come on, not everything has gone wrong. After last season we made a prediction thread and most of us were looking at a 6-10, 7-9 season. We seem to be in pace for that. And that's the whole thing. It's difficult to take these arguments seriously when many times what you guys do is to overdramatize EVERY situation. There's a lot of excrement, there's some good things too. Gase sucks, he's not Kotite. There's shades of gray.

we're all gonna die too.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 12, 2019, 01:44:10 PM
Come on, not everything has gone wrong. After last season we made a prediction thread and most of us were looking at a 6-10, 7-9 season. We seem to be in pace for that. And that's the whole thing. It's difficult to take these arguments seriously when many times what you guys do is to overdramatize EVERY situation. There's a lot of excrement, there's some good things too. Gase sucks, he's not Kotite. There's shades of gray.

This sums it up. People talk about the big picture in the abstract--draft a QB, let him develop over a couple years, etc. But when it comes to actually doing that, which means some bad games, mediocre records, learning curve, some people don't have the stomach for it. Coach has to go, QB is "broken" or "ruined", "overdramatize" is the right word.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 12, 2019, 01:47:08 PM
This sums it up. People talk about the big picture in the abstract--draft a QB, let him develop over a couple years, etc. But when it comes to actually doing that, which means some bad games, mediocre records, learning curve, some people don't have the stomach for it. Coach has to go, QB is "broken" or "ruined", "overdramatize" is the right word.

No, everyone should hit the ground running like Mike Tomlin because the situations both coaches inherited are totally the same.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2019, 02:15:15 PM
1- Agreed. Completely fair and factual criticism.
2- See #1.
3- The posting of the fines in the team facility is a bad look, Enunwa is also 100% wrong.
4- Overblown by Manish who's clearly operating with an agenda likely because he's not getting the access he previously enjoyed. Meh. I've heard him blame himself plenty after losses.
5- The best thing he's done here IMHO aside from having Sam play on a clear upward trajectory since the Jaguars game. Mac sucked.
6- I don't think he's ever said that.
7- Fair considering the second half performances for the most part, and I think especially reared its head after the Darnold INT last Sunday.
8- Yeah, Andy Reid does it most of the time he's not talking to his quarterback.
9- C'mon, really.
10- I don't recall so I can't comment on it except to say freak Brian Winters. 

So let's start with the fact that you agree there is some very valid criticism. Specifically in-game and gameplanning issues. Those are the core of his job, no? If he's bad at them, that's reason for him to be unemployed alone, no?

I'm not quoting anything from Manish. Other than some of his tweets, I haven't read a thing from Manish this year. I watch the postgame show with more interest than the games at this point. The things I say Gase says or does in them, I've witnessed with my own 2 eyes.

Was it good to get rid of Maccagnan? Ends-justify-the-means says yes. And I wanted him gone before anyone except SFD. But it's the snake-style garbage that I don't like. That's not a one-time thing from someone. That's who they are. Maccagnan signed off on Gase's hiring only to be stabbed in the back.

You don't think he's ever said he didn't want to give Bell and Mosley the money they got? I mean, Ian Rappaport isn't Manish: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001030898/article/adam-gase-disagreed-with-price-tag-for-bell-mosley (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001030898/article/adam-gase-disagreed-with-price-tag-for-bell-mosley)

My problem with things like sitting on the bench alone or having someone else in charge of the challenge flag are: the head coach should be directly involved in all 3 phases of the game. His job is to oversee the 3 units, not play with his own toys in the corner.

And agreed, freak Brian Winters. But again, a head coach needs to take care of garbage like that. Not put the guy right back in the game. And even if he didn't know what happened then, how did Winters get to start the next week as well?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 12, 2019, 02:26:27 PM
we're all gonna die too.

Yeah, but not today
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2019, 02:34:06 PM
Come on, not everything has gone wrong. After last season we made a prediction thread and most of us were looking at a 6-10, 7-9 season. We seem to be in pace for that. And that's the whole thing. It's difficult to take these arguments seriously when many times what you guys do is to overdramatize EVERY situation. There's a lot of excrement, there's some good things too. Gase sucks, he's not Kotite. There's shades of gray.

This keeps being repeated, and so does the question: what exactly are those good things?

The pro-Gase side wants to say the fire-him side keep overdramatizing point after point why he's a bad coach, but at the same time won't step up and tell us what he's done that's good.

This sums it up. People talk about the big picture in the abstract--draft a QB, let him develop over a couple years, etc. But when it comes to actually doing that, which means some bad games, mediocre records, learning curve, some people don't have the stomach for it. Coach has to go, QB is "broken" or "ruined", "overdramatize" is the right word.

Big picture means seeing reason to believe. I believe in the talent of Sam Darnold. I do not believe in Adam Gase at all.

No, everyone should hit the ground running like Mike Tomlin because the situations both coaches inherited are totally the same.

Nobody is saying this.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 12, 2019, 02:45:35 PM

Big picture means seeing reason to believe. I believe in the talent of Sam Darnold. I do not believe in Adam Gase at all.

That's your right, it's early in the process. Once Darnold got healthy and comfortable in the offense it has been better, the opening drives I think tied a team record or broke it. We put up 34 points a few times in a row, there's been some positive signs. A lot of that is Darnold but some of it is the coaching staff too. The team stayed together at 1-7 and has been 4-1 since then, if you're going to assign blame for the bad at least recognize the good. We're 5-8 and people are acting like we're 2-11.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 03:58:19 PM
1- Agreed. Completely fair and factual criticism.
2- See #1.
3- The posting of the fines in the team facility is a bad look, Enunwa is also 100% wrong.
4- Overblown by Manish who's clearly operating with an agenda likely because he's not getting the access he previously enjoyed. Meh. I've heard him blame himself plenty after losses.
5- The best thing he's done here IMHO aside from having Sam play on a clear upward trajectory since the Jaguars game. Mac sucked.
6- I don't think he's ever said that.
7- Fair considering the second half performances for the most part, and I think especially reared its head after the Darnold INT last Sunday.
8- Yeah, Andy Reid does it most of the time he's not talking to his quarterback.
9- C'mon, really.
10- I don't recall so I can't comment on it except to say freak Brian Winters. 
Yep. As with most of the Gase criticisms, there is plenty of truth, but there is so much irrelevant garbage people blame Gase for that makes it hard to take the rest of the post seriously.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 04:24:52 PM
Yep. As with most of the Gase criticisms, there is plenty of truth, but there is so much irrelevant garbage people blame Gase for that makes it hard to take the rest of the post seriously.
Well...with the criticisms, there’s a degree of frustration that comes along with that.  So you can expect some hyperbole to get thrown in.

Some of us are tired of spinning our wheels, while some are content to accept shitty coaching as the status quo.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 12, 2019, 04:30:13 PM
Well...with the criticisms, thereís a degree of frustration that comes along with that.  So you can expect some hyperbole to get thrown in.

Some of us are tired of spinning our wheels, while some are content to accept shitty coaching as the status quo.

You can't state your own case without mischaracterizing others. You gave up in Week 2, that's not our problem.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 04:39:08 PM
Well...with the criticisms, thereís a degree of frustration that comes along with that.  So you can expect some hyperbole to get thrown in.

Some of us are tired of spinning our wheels, while some are content to accept shitty coaching as the status quo.
I just think that a lot of it is overblown.

This team critically lacks talent in many areas. We played a 3rd-string QB for 3 games, our RB missed a game, our #2 WR barely played, we lost our #1 TE and later our #2 TE, our OL has been a revolving door all year, Quinnen has missed time, we traded Leonard, the LB corps has been a revolving door, the CBs have changed constantly, and even Jamal has now missed time. Entering this season, most of us agreed that this team had talent if they stayed healthy, and it just lacked depth. Then when this team needs to play all the depth, people think we're poorly coached. I don't think Bill Belichick would have a winning record with this team.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 12, 2019, 04:47:15 PM
I just think that a lot of it is overblown.

This team critically lacks talent in many areas. We played a 3rd-string QB for 3 games, our RB missed a game, our #2 WR barely played, we lost our #1 TE and later our #2 TE, our OL has been a revolving door all year, Quinnen has missed time, we traded Leonard, the LB corps has been a revolving door, the CBs have changed constantly, and even Jamal has now missed time. Entering this season, most of us agreed that this team had talent if they stayed healthy, and it just lacked depth. Then when this team needs to play all the depth, people think we're poorly coached. I don't think Bill Belichick would have a winning record with this team.

I don't think anyone disputes that.

What we are pissed about is HOW bad we have looked. In a season where 80% of the AFC is a complete dumpster fire, and there were more 2 wins and less teams ever by week 10, we were as bad as any of them. We made NFL HISTORY for futility in being the first team to EVER lose to multiple 0-7 or worse teams. We did that in part because we are talentless, but in part because the coaching is not good enough to win. There are times (opening drives) where this team looks prepared and pounces on teams. But as our opponents make adjustments we are simply spinning our gears and thats putting it mildly.

In addition, the number of times we have been completely embarrassed/non-competitive this season is very high. Both Patriots games, the Eagles, the Bengals (an 0-11 team), the Browns just off the top of my head. Thats 5 of our 8 losses we weren't even competitive in, and frankly I think one could argue a couple of our wins we didn't even realize deserve (Dolphins).

Thats why we are pissed, we have a creampuff back of the schedule and honestly can't even compete on a field with a terrible AFC. Gase isn't getting it done, and I don't want to watch him continue to freak up.

At what point has he had enough leash to warrant a change? 16 games? 18? 24? 32? 48? Because I want to know how long I need to wait before I can at least pretend to believe we have a shot to win for real.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 05:25:13 PM
You can't state your own case without mischaracterizing others. You gave up in Week 2, that's not our problem.
I gave him a chance...he failed.

You’re still living in a fantasy that the Jets are in good hands.  That takes some next-level ignorance to pull off.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 05:43:38 PM
I don't think anyone disputes that.

What we are pissed about is HOW bad we have looked. In a season where 80% of the AFC is a complete dumpster fire, and there were more 2 wins and less teams ever by week 10, we were as bad as any of them. We made NFL HISTORY for futility in being the first team to EVER lose to multiple 0-7 or worse teams. We did that in part because we are talentless, but in part because the coaching is not good enough to win. There are times (opening drives) where this team looks prepared and pounces on teams. But as our opponents make adjustments we are simply spinning our gears and thats putting it mildly.

In addition, the number of times we have been completely embarrassed/non-competitive this season is very high. Both Patriots games, the Eagles, the Bengals (an 0-11 team), the Browns just off the top of my head. Thats 5 of our 8 losses we weren't even competitive in, and frankly I think one could argue a couple of our wins we didn't even realize deserve (Dolphins).

Thats why we are pissed, we have a creampuff back of the schedule and honestly can't even compete on a field with a terrible AFC. Gase isn't getting it done, and I don't want to watch him continue to freak up.

At what point has he had enough leash to warrant a change? 16 games? 18? 24? 32? 48? Because I want to know how long I need to wait before I can at least pretend to believe we have a shot to win for real.

Why are the Jets better than any of these other bad teams in the AFC? We were supposed to be a .500 team in Vegas - our over/under was 7.5 wins. And that was before our entire team got injured. And you talk about the creampuff back of the schedule - we went 4-2 in those games (and we were only favored in 3 of those games).

I don't understand how you agree the Jets are painfully injured, so much to the point that Bill Belichick wouldn't have a winning record with this team, but you still think Gase has done such a bad job going 5-8 that you think he must be fired after one season. People complain that we lost to the Bengals. Do you want to give back the Cowboys/Raiders wins? Not that either of those teams are worldbeaters, but both teams are still better than the Jets on paper. People complain that we struggle after good opening drives. Would it be better if we sucked on the opening drive and did better later in the game?

Jets fans are just frustrated we've sucked for a decade. I'm frustrated, too. And if Gase gets axed, I won't shed a tear. But fans are holding him to an unfair standard.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 05:45:09 PM
I gave him a chance...he failed.
Glad you gave him a game.

Quote
Youíre still living in a fantasy that the Jets are in good hands.  That takes some next-level ignorance to pull off.
It must be so easy to win arguments when you argue against ridiculous points that nobody is making.
Title: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 05:46:59 PM
Glad you gave him a game.
It must be so easy to win arguments when you argue against ridiculous points that nobody is making.
I cut bait after the loss to philly

I win all the arguments.  And you should probably read some of the crap IS has spewed on this board over the years before commenting....
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 05:48:19 PM
I cut bait after the loss to philly
Sorry, you gave him one game with an NFL quarterback. My bad.
Title: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 05:51:25 PM
Sorry, you gave him one game with an NFL quarterback. My bad.
Oh right...Luke Falk was at fault. Where have we heard this excrement before?

Find a new narrative. This one was taken.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 05:54:30 PM
Oh right...Luke Falk was at fault. Where have we heard this excrement before?

Find a new narrative. This one was taken.
I guess you just can't argue with stupid. I shouldn't even try.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 05:58:34 PM
I guess you just can't argue with stupid. I shouldn't even try.
You had to resort to personal attacks, not sure you stood a chance anyway.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 06:09:52 PM
You had to resort to personal attacks, not sure you stood a chance anyway.
Giving up on a coach after 4 games, 3 of which coming with a backup QB, is stupid. Not personal, just stating facts. I can't argue against stupid arguments when you're just going to double down on them.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 06:24:17 PM
Giving up on a coach after 4 games, 3 of which coming with a backup QB, is stupid. Not personal, just stating facts. I can't argue against stupid arguments when you're just going to double down on them.
I’m not giving up on a coach after 4 games. His tenure in Miami is still fresh and quite relevant considering what we’ve seen from him thus far. For some reason, you guys are quick to dismiss this.  It was prevalent when Rex went to Buffalo, it’s prevalent here whether you guys accept it or not.  Our roster is getting destroyed with injuries, that was happening in Miami during his entire time there. Coincidence? Probably not. If you don’t believe me...compare the amount of players he had on the IR in Miami with the amount in NY.



So before you spout off about what’s factual and what isn’t....maybe take Gase’s entire body of work into account instead of cherry-picking this season . You know...since his time in Miami was ONLY last season.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 06:29:36 PM
So before you spout off about whatís factual and what isnít....maybe take Gaseís entire body of work into account instead of cherry-picking this season . You know...since his time in Miami was ONLY last season.
Sorry that I'm "cherry-picking" this season. You know, the only season he has coached the Jets. Which is really all I care about.

You do have a point about the injuries. I think injuries are more luck than anything else, but clearly Gase has had awful injury luck. It isn't Gase's fault that Sam was sick for the first month of the season and that Tannehill tore his ACL in Miami. But there may be something to his coaching that lends to more injuries. I don't know that though.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 06:35:33 PM
Sorry that I'm "cherry-picking" this season. You know, the only season he has coached the Jets. Which is really all I care about.

You do have a point about the injuries. I think injuries are more luck than anything else, but clearly Gase has had awful injury luck. It isn't Gase's fault that Sam was sick for the first month of the season and that Tannehill tore his ACL in Miami. But there may be something to his coaching that lends to more injuries. I don't know that though.
Sorry, the last 3 seasons count towards his body of work. He didn’t just magically change his coaching tendencies and personality because he walked thru the doors at florham park days after he left Miami. I know you want to believe he did...

Injury luck?  C’mon dude...open your eyes.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Pope on December 12, 2019, 07:42:04 PM
That’s probably ballgame
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 12, 2019, 07:49:10 PM
Why are the Jets better than any of these other bad teams in the AFC? We were supposed to be a .500 team in Vegas - our over/under was 7.5 wins. And that was before our entire team got injured. And you talk about the creampuff back of the schedule - we went 4-2 in those games (and we were only favored in 3 of those games).

I don't understand how you agree the Jets are painfully injured, so much to the point that Bill Belichick wouldn't have a winning record with this team, but you still think Gase has done such a bad job going 5-8 that you think he must be fired after one season. People complain that we lost to the Bengals. Do you want to give back the Cowboys/Raiders wins? Not that either of those teams are worldbeaters, but both teams are still better than the Jets on paper. People complain that we struggle after good opening drives. Would it be better if we sucked on the opening drive and did better later in the game?

Jets fans are just frustrated we've sucked for a decade. I'm frustrated, too. And if Gase gets axed, I won't shed a tear. But fans are holding him to an unfair standard.

Itís not that we have lost it is HOW we are losing. Itís not that we are getting beat in our areas of deficit (lack of LBs or CBS leading to us giving up 30 points a game), itís that we are largely non competitive in games. While tonight isnít over yet, would anyone be surprised for us to get our asses handed to us again tonight?

Iím fine losing, we lack talent and we lack quality schemes to get our guys open easily for Sam to throw to. But continuing to do the same thing (keeping a guy who has made so many mistakes and has either been incapable of using a top notch weapon in Bell, or (worse) intentionally misused LeíVeon Bell. These things show me he isnít the right guy for the job of leading a franchise to a championship. As such thatís why I want him out, because Iím tired of losing and I donít want to be the team thatís gone the longest without a postseason trip. We are getting dangerously close to that point.

If you still have faith in Gases ability thatís great. I donít and I want to replace him sooner rather than later because I donít want to waste any more time. I still want to know how long are you willing to wait to decide enough is enough (this can be a general idea for a new coach or Gase specific). Is it 20 games? 40? Zero playoff appearances in 4 seasons? What would it take for you to decide we need to move on?

I agree stability is a great thing. But stable with idiots on charge isnít really helpful, it wonít get us out of the basement. Iíd rather go back to the unknown than keep someone I have lost faith in

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 07:49:25 PM
Where the Gase supporters at?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 07:50:26 PM
Where the Gase supporters at?

Yeah, we really had a chance in this one. 

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 07:53:13 PM
Where the Gase supporters at?
I’m with Heis on this one...our roster is decimated. Other HCs wouldn’t  stand a chance either.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 12, 2019, 07:53:21 PM
Where the Gase supporters at?

This is exactly why no one sensible takes any of you serious.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 07:54:35 PM
Yeah, we really had a chance in this one. 



I'm ok with losing...it's HOW you lose.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 07:56:12 PM
This is exactly why no one sensible takes any of you serious.

Yep you're thrilled with our offense is playing? Tell me more.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 07:58:06 PM
I'm ok with losing...it's HOW you lose.

what
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 08:02:30 PM
Yep you're thrilled with our offense is playing? Tell me more.

freak YOU
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 08:04:52 PM
This is exactly why no one sensible takes any of you serious.
Settle down, skippy. You’re still wrong about Gase. 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 08:12:01 PM
freak YOU

Lol. Woo! 7 points
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 08:13:21 PM
Lol. Woo! 7 points

Baltimore is arguably the best team in the NFL.

Not sure what you expect from this garbage roster every week, but man you have been a baby back bitch this season. 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 08:22:38 PM
Yep you're thrilled with our offense is playing? Tell me more.
Yeah, I am so far. You're not?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 08:23:38 PM
Yeah, I am so far. You're not?
I’m thrilled Sam is still alive and making a few plays.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 08:25:08 PM
This is exactly why no one sensible takes any of you serious.
This. Hard to take a lot of you seriously when people shitpost like this. LJF is the worst among them.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 08:31:29 PM
This. Hard to take a lot of you seriously when people shitpost like this. LJF is the worst among them.
Same goes for you clowns
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 08:32:36 PM
Same goes for you clowns
At least we aren't shitposting outside the game thread during the game. Not that you started this.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 08:35:41 PM
At least we aren't shitposting outside the game thread during the game. Not that you started this.
You’ve been shitposting for weeks
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: klaximilian on December 12, 2019, 09:15:39 PM
Youíve been shitposting for weeks

As opposed to the better part of two decades?

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 09:32:13 PM
Y'all keep falling in love with this HC that's put up 7 points with his guru-esque schemes. Good for you
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:34:07 PM
Y'all keep falling in love with this HC that's put up 7 points with his guru-esque schemes. Good for you
I appreciate how you made your early-game shitpost, went away when the Jets offense was actually playing well, then returned after a couple punts. Way to stick to the brand.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Pope on December 12, 2019, 09:34:51 PM
As opposed to the better part of two decades?
Fuckin lol
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:38:03 PM
Fuckin lol
I had a draft of "You've been shitposting for decades on multiple websites" but then I decided that I was sick of arguing with MB. Glad Klax picked up the slack.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 09:44:37 PM
I appreciate how you made your early-game shitpost, went away when the Jets offense was actually playing well, then returned after a couple punts. Way to stick to the brand.

It's been an hour... you still got a hard on for Gase?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 09:45:20 PM
I had a draft of "You've been shitposting for decades on multiple websites" but then I decided that I was sick of arguing with MB. Glad Klax picked up the slack.
You’re still losing the argument
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:46:11 PM
It's been an hour... you still got a hard on for Gase?
As I've said 1,000 times, I don't care if they keep Gase or let go of Gase, but bitching and moaning 5 minutes into the game against the best team in the NFL on the road on a short week to complain about Gase is freaking stupid.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 09:47:00 PM
If we're losing 42-31 and our offense had a pulse, I wouldn't be killing Gase. But 7 freaking points?! You guys are happy with this offensive output from this clown you deem a guru. GFY
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: bojanglesman on December 12, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
If we're losing 42-31 and our offense had a pulse, I wouldn't be killing Gase. But 7 freaking points?! You guys are happy with this offensive output from this clown you deem a guru. GFY
I was happy with the first half offense moving the ball.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:49:32 PM
If we're losing 42-31 and our offense had a pulse, I wouldn't be killing Gase. But 7 freaking points?! You guys are happy with this offensive output from this clown you deem a guru. GFY
No you wouldn't. You proved that tonight.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 09:52:42 PM
As I've said 1,000 times, I don't care if they keep Gase or let go of Gase, but bitching and moaning 5 minutes into the game against the best team in the NFL on the road on a short week to complain about Gase is freaking stupid.
Your nose is growing
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 09:53:22 PM
"I TOLD YOU SO!"
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 09:53:44 PM
No you wouldn't. You proved that tonight.

Our special teams scored as many points as out offense.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:56:45 PM
Youíre still losing the argument
I'm very happy with the company I've been keeping in this thread. Most of the people whose opinions I respect the most have either been rational, or stayed out of the way because it's not worth arguing over because it's like arguing with a brick wall.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 12, 2019, 09:56:54 PM
Your nose is growing

If you would pay any attention this is basically what every one except for mj is saying. The point isn't that people would be happy with Gase, but it's just freaking ridiculous to pin everything on him and scream bloody murder. Doesn't help your case at all also, when you tack up all the hyperbolic excrement you can muster.

But I'm done arguing about this. The point is, this place is not at all enjoyable when you pussies are screaming the same vitriolic excrement in every thread.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:58:21 PM
If you would pay any attention this is basically what every one except for mj is saying. The point isn't that people would be happy with Gase, but it's just freaking ridiculous to pin everything on him and scream bloody murder. Doesn't help your case at all also, when you tack up all the hyperbolic excrement you can muster.

But I'm done arguing about this. The point is, this place is not at all enjoyable when you pussies are screaming the same vitriolic excrement in every thread.
Agreed. I'm going to try to join you and Heismanberg and stay out of the way so the chicken littles can scream among themselves.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 09:58:51 PM
I'm very happy with the company I've been keeping in this thread. Most of the people whose opinions I respect the most have either been rational, or stayed out of the way because it's not worth arguing over because it's like arguing with a brick wall.
Nobody cares who you respect
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 10:02:53 PM
If you would pay any attention this is basically what every one except for mj is saying. The point isn't that people would be happy with Gase, but it's just freaking ridiculous to pin everything on him and scream bloody murder. Doesn't help your case at all also, when you tack up all the hyperbolic excrement you can muster.

But I'm done arguing about this. The point is, this place is not at all enjoyable when you pussies are screaming the same vitriolic excrement in every thread.
Just because you don’t like to hear it, doesn’t mean it’s not true.  I’m also not here to convince you...I know the Gase hire was a mistake.  It’s not really debatable. 

And all these Fire Gase posts are in the correct threads
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2019, 10:10:47 PM
This all got dramatic.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 10:14:04 PM
This all got dramatic.
This is why you stick to the game thread until the game ends!
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: mj2sexay on December 12, 2019, 10:16:23 PM
If you would pay any attention this is basically what every one except for mj is saying. The point isn't that people would be happy with Gase, but it's just freaking ridiculous to pin everything on him and scream bloody murder. Doesn't help your case at all also, when you tack up all the hyperbolic excrement you can muster.

But I'm done arguing about this. The point is, this place is not at all enjoyable when you pussies are screaming the same vitriolic excrement in every thread.

But that's exactly what I've been saying!
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 12, 2019, 10:25:07 PM
This all got dramatic.

gase is making all you niggas gay
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2019, 10:28:15 PM
Don't blame me, I quit just after half time. I've lost interest in watching Gaseball, but I don't particularly have an issue with what I saw tonight. Baltimore are just a better team.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 10:30:14 PM
Don't blame me, I quit just after half time. I've lost interest in watching Gaseball, but I don't particularly have an issue with what I saw tonight. Baltimore are just a better team.
I’m more pissed with losing to the RedWings
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: bojanglesman on December 12, 2019, 10:30:36 PM
Don't blame me, I quit just after half time. I've lost interest in watching Gaseball, but I don't particularly have an issue with what I saw tonight. Baltimore are just a better team.
Yep.  Darnold played well.  All I care about from here out.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 10:33:57 PM
Yep.  Darnold played well.  All I care about from here out.
You should care more about seeing Fubar 2

#priorities
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2019, 09:10:03 AM
This is what this team has done to us.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 09:11:38 AM
This is what this team has done to us.

I was pretty salty last night.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 09:32:41 AM
gase is making all you niggas gay

rooster in their mouth makes them gay.


This thread is as dramatic as a, drag queen show.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2019, 09:32:58 AM
I was pretty salty last night.

I don't blame you. I'm still a little salty.

But overall, I'm apathetic. I just want Gase fired. Into the Sun.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 09:35:50 AM
I don't blame you. I'm still a little salty.

But overall, I'm apathetic. I just want Gase fired. Into the Sun.

x2

Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 13, 2019, 09:48:32 AM
I don't blame you. I'm still a little salty.

But overall, I'm apathetic. I just want Gase fired. Into the Sun.
x2



X3
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2019, 10:17:37 AM
I was pretty salty last night.

I was pretty drunk last night. Quit watching just after half time and went to drink with my wife and her friend instead. Far more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 10:21:05 AM
I was pretty drunk last night. Quit watching just after half time and went to drink with my wife and her friend instead. Far more enjoyable.

I did the same with my gal, it was far more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 10:22:02 AM
I was pretty drunk last night. Quit watching just after half time and went to drink with my wife and her friend instead. Far more enjoyable.

I think we're at the point where if you said you were sober last night (or any night), that's where the real surprise and intrigue stems from.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2019, 10:32:10 AM
I think we're at the point where if you said you were sober last night (or any night), that's where the real surprise and intrigue stems from.

I'm not the one who starts drinking at 10am.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 10:44:04 AM
I'm not the one who starts drinking at 10am.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/y7kvOYLzas6Ag/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 10:44:28 AM
I'm not the one who starts drinking at 10am.

What's wrong with that?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2019, 10:50:48 AM
What's wrong with that?

Apparently it's "unprofessional".
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 11:01:39 AM
Apparently it's "unprofessional".
but that's how i roll
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 11:42:46 AM
Apparently it's "unprofessional".

 Again you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning. That's the very definition of being a professional.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2019, 04:41:06 PM
gase is making all you niggas gay
Things Gase is unfairly blamed for:

-Injuries
-This entire board being gay
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 14, 2019, 10:01:11 PM
Things Gase is unfairly blamed for:

-Injuries
-This entire board being gay
rooster makes the board gay, not Gase.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on June 17, 2020, 12:56:03 PM
Sanchez (Ď09, Ď10):
31 games, 29 TDs/ 33 ints, 180 YPG, 53 sacks

Darnold (Ď18, Ď19):
26 games, 36 TDs/ 28 ints, 227 YPG, 63 sacks
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on August 02, 2020, 12:56:15 PM
RIP Herman Cain
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: MexJetinBcn on August 02, 2020, 02:05:27 PM
I donít get the Herman Cain joke 😬. Maybe because Iím not American 🤔
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on August 02, 2020, 03:13:32 PM
I donít get the Herman Cain joke . Maybe because Iím not American
Former presidential primary candidate and COVID denier caught it (likely at a Trump rally) then died from it. When the news broke it was posted in 3 different threads so we just continued posting it in every thread.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: dcm1602 on August 02, 2020, 09:25:51 PM
I donít get the Herman Cain joke 😬. Maybe because Iím not American 🤔

Here in America everytime someone you disagree with dies its like Christmas.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: delavan on August 03, 2020, 03:35:44 PM
Here in America everytime someone you disagree with dies its like Christmas.
  That goes for the nice people in Canada too?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Johnny English on August 03, 2020, 03:37:47 PM
  That goes for the nice people in Canada too?
No, only the nasty ones.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 21, 2020, 12:07:18 PM
Are we currently the worst team in the NFL?
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 21, 2020, 12:10:57 PM
Are we currently the worst team in the NFL?

Carolina without CMC is the only other team that MIGHT be worse than us. 
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 21, 2020, 12:24:19 PM
Are we currently the worst team in the NFL?

Yes.

We are flat out non-competitive.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 21, 2020, 12:35:11 PM
Giants are pretty bad, too, especially now without Saquon.
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: Badger on September 21, 2020, 04:45:01 PM
Are we currently the worst team in the NFL?
Good job I actually meant to bump this last night
Title: Re: Official Serious Debate: When was the last time the team was this depressing?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 22, 2020, 01:07:18 PM
https://twitter.com/yardsperpass/status/1308456364864397313?s=21