Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 03:15:32 PM
Has their honestly been a lower point for this franchise? Certainly not in the last 20 years.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2019, 03:16:41 PM
Post by: steves850 on November 03, 2019, 03:19:16 PM
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2019, 03:20:28 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2019, 03:25:09 PM
All burned down.
The saddest part is Darnold's regression. If you know you have a 22 year old franchise QB, the rest you can get over. We the franchise QB we haven't had in 2 decades and excrement on him.
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2019, 03:25:37 PM
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 03, 2019, 03:25:51 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2019, 03:27:06 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2019, 03:32:12 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2019, 03:32:20 PM
Quote
I've been covering the Jets for 31 years and I can say without any doubt this was one of their most embarrassing losses. Ever. This was the kind of loss that gets people fired and leads to off-season overhauls. Inexcusable.
Rich Cimini, ESPN Staff Writer
15m ago
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 03:33:19 PM
I still think the 2005 team was the hardest to watchI think 2007 was worse. I remember being somewhat entertained by some of our losses in 2005.
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 03:35:01 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
This team has Darnold which is a double edged sword. On one hand, I have a reason to watch. On the other hand, watching us ruin him may be worse.
Post by: Gorilla on November 03, 2019, 03:47:26 PM
Gase is a glorified QB coach, nothing more. He's in so far over his head he can't even see the surface.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2019, 03:48:47 PM
Then hopefully he can start with a clean slate with a new offense
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2019, 03:49:24 PM
Post by: Gorilla on November 03, 2019, 03:53:06 PM
I can handle a lot as a Jets fan. Losing doesn't faze me anymore. But to finally have "the QB", then have him fucked by one season.....
This is me, 100%.
I'm used to losing seasons, but watching Sam the last 3 games is making me sad.
Post by: Pope on November 03, 2019, 03:54:59 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2019, 03:55:39 PM
I can handle a lot as a Jets fan. Losing doesn't faze me anymore. But to finally have "the QB", then have him fucked by one season.....
One season in which we didn’t fire Duff, hired Gase, let Duff run the most important offseason in recent history, and then let Gase fire Duff. Complete organizational incompetence has led us to this point.
Post by: Gorilla on November 03, 2019, 03:59:05 PM
We should have another tailgate towards the end of the year but instead of going to the game we’ll all just kill ourselves
lol, for real
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2019, 03:59:29 PM
We should have another tailgate towards the end of the year but instead of going to the game we’ll all just kill ourselves
5 honks
Post by: Jumbo on November 03, 2019, 04:01:45 PM
One season in which we didn’t fire Duff, hired Gase, let Duff run the most important offseason in recent history, and then let Gase fire Duff. Complete organizational incompetence has led us to this point.
Woody > Chris
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 03, 2019, 04:03:41 PM
Woody > Chris
It seems that way, and how freaking ridiculous is that...
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2019, 04:05:08 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 03, 2019, 04:23:46 PM
I started following this team after the 1-15 season in the mid 90s. I would say this season is the worst i've been a part of as a fan.
2003 for me. Definitely my worst season ever.
Post by: insanity on November 03, 2019, 04:54:29 PM
Don't worry guys, Sam had almost 70% completions today. Whew.I know you are being sarcastic, but Darnold didnt lose us this game.
Post by: IATA on November 03, 2019, 05:05:33 PM
can we just like, forfeit and save darnold the abuse?
or can someone hire some more dirty bitches and give him mono again or something?
who am i kidding, hes gonna play out his rookie deal, sign with a competent team and then perform.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 03, 2019, 06:20:20 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 03, 2019, 06:36:34 PM
I have no idea how we could beat Dallas and what the freak happened to the team since then?
I think 2005 was bad but that was understandable once Chad and Fiedler went down.
07 was rough, but not shockingly bad. 2014 was a disaster and might be the team I’ve hated the most because I simply had no interest in Geno and it just needed to freaking die.
This is the worst I’ve felt as a Jets fan ever as 95-96’ was at its infancy and I barely remember it as I was just a kid.
If we ruin Sam I don’t even know how one begins to get over it.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 03, 2019, 06:40:04 PM
Not since I’ve been a fan
Basically this
Post by: dcm1602 on November 03, 2019, 06:40:26 PM
The Kotite era is obviously the worst record we’ve had. This is on pace to match it.
I have no idea how we could beat Dallas and what the freak happened to the team since then?
I think 2005 was bad but that was understandable once Chad and Fiedler went down.
07 was rough, but not shockingly bad. 2014 was a disaster and might be the team I’ve hated the most because I simply had no interest in Geno and it just needed to freaking die.
This is the worst I’ve felt as a Jets fan ever as 95-96’ was at its infancy and I barely remember it as I was just a kid.
If we ruin Sam I don’t even know how one begins to get over it.
I think the Dallas game was a combination of this team being super fired up having Sam back and Dallas being absolutely annihilated by injuries (they were missing essentially their entire OL two corners and number 1 wideout), plus possibly underestimating us.
We have had some more injuries as well (ie beachem) and the Patriots skull freaking Sam's confidence.
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 06:46:29 PM
2005: 4-12, supposed to take the next step after 2004's success, cut down by injury early in the season. Silver lining: hoping Chad would return from injury the next year.
2007: 4-12, supposed to take the next step after 2006's success, seeing Chad fizzle out at the end of his Jets tenure. Silver lining: young core of Brick/Mangold/Revis/Harris.
2014: 4-12, some people expected us to build on 2013's surprise 8-8 record, instead we wildly underperformed. Michael Vick. End of the Rex era. Silver lining: can't remember one.
2016: 5-11, made very little improvement to the roster that went 10-6 the year before and everything fell apart. Fitztragic. Revis not trying. Silver lining: thinking we could finally commit to a true teardown and rebuild.
Thoughts?
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2019, 06:56:56 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2019, 07:00:37 PM
Just a rundown of the worst seasons in my fan history, seasons that just sucked from start to finish:
2005: 4-12, supposed to take the next step after 2004's success, cut down by injury early in the season. Silver lining: hoping Chad would return from injury the next year.
2007: 4-12, supposed to take the next step after 2006's success, seeing Chad fizzle out at the end of his Jets tenure. Silver lining: young core of Brick/Mangold/Revis/Harris.
2014: 4-12, some people expected us to build on 2013's surprise 8-8 record, instead we wildly underperformed. Michael Vick. End of the Rex era. Silver lining: can't remember one.
2016: 5-11, made very little improvement to the roster that went 10-6 the year before and everything fell apart. Fitztragic. Revis not trying. Silver lining: thinking we could finally commit to a true teardown and rebuild.
Thoughts?
Very accurate, and I feel like I can actually compare these seasons since I was around for all of them. None of those even feel close to as bad as this one. The difference? I never believed in a Jets QB like I do with Sam Darnold. It’s heartbreaking to watch when it feels like we finally have the QB of the future in place but the organization isn’t giving him a chance to succeed.
The sequence of events to start the season really makes this the worst. Duff being retained, Gase getting hired, the sequence that led to Duff’s firing. I’ve never felt good about this season at any point in time.
Post by: WD40 on November 03, 2019, 07:14:20 PM
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2019, 07:15:41 PM
Very accurate, and I feel like I can actually compare these seasons since I was around for all of them. None of those even feel close to as bad as this one. The difference? I never believed in a Jets QB like I do with Sam Darnold. It’s heartbreaking to watch when it feels like we finally have the QB of the future in place but the organization isn’t giving him a chance to succeed.As DS said above, the Darnold factor cuts in two different directions, he's something we should be hopeful about but seeing him struggle for nothing right now is painful. For now I'm still hopeful, I still see him as undeveloped rather than regressing.
The sequence of events to start the season really makes this the worst. Duff being retained, Gase getting hired, the sequence that led to Duff’s firing. I’ve never felt good about this season at any point in time.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 03, 2019, 08:18:36 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 04, 2019, 09:54:43 AM
This is the worst season I've lived through. All this stuff about guys having had hope coming in isn't something I felt at any point. Like SFD, there has never been a point when I felt positive about this year.
And this staff is ruining the best QB prospect this organization has ever had. Exactly what I said was going to happen.
Post by: Pope on November 04, 2019, 10:13:07 AM
Post by: ScotlandJet on November 04, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
Fans recalling some dark days of the past. I'm old enough to remember the double overtime loss in Clevland and the following tailspin of the team when we were ligit. We just never got there and this period feels very similar.
We have always flirted with success even under Mangini but these last few years under Bowles and now this abortion just makes me sad and worse - indifferent.
I always say at the start of the season I just want the Jets to be in the shake up at Christmas even if it is a longshot - ha! When did that last happen?
Post by: Badger on November 04, 2019, 10:49:28 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 04, 2019, 10:54:11 AM
When he has even an extra second to throw, you can see the talent there. The problem is that extra second is really hard to come by.
Post by: mj2sexay on November 04, 2019, 10:56:50 AM
I saw 2005 get brought up a couple of times here, that one hurt. Fresh off a 10 win season with a pro bowler brought in at a position of need....all for it to go up in flames as Chad AND Jay went down within about a 10 minute span of each other.
This one hurts. Yesterday was yet another valley for a franchise that's seen so many. But I still don't buy two narratives being pushed by the media right now;
1. The damage being done to Sam will be irreversible.
2. Douglas and Gase are tied at the hip.
And so begins the march to the end of the season, and very likely, the search for a new head coach. I said it before this debacle, if Gase loses to the dolphins and giants, I could definitely see ownership pulling the plug.
Also...Brian Winters should have been cut the second the game was over yesterday.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 11:12:39 AM
Vinny's 99 injury stands alone because 1998 was the best team we've ever had, except for (or possibly including) the 68 team none of us saw. The only team to stop us from winning the Super Bowl was Denver and Elway was retired. After that year we lost Parcells, Belichick, Keyshawn and were never the same team again. The Chad years were what they were, odd years he was hurt and we sucked, even years he was in and we made the playoffs.
As far as being historically bad over a stretch of years, again I can only point to the mid 70s and the mid 90s for anything comparable to this. The mid 70s were the last few Namath years which bottomed out in 76 when Lou Holtz came in and was fired before the last game. We went 3-11 for the second year in a row and Namath was done after the season. We went 3-11 again in 1977 with Walt Michaels but he was a new coach with a real rebuild getting started, with young players like Todd, Walker, Klecko, Harper, Buttle and Powell.
I still maintain that 1995 was worse and more depressing than 1996, even though the record was slightly better. By 96 we had some better players, played more competitive games and knew Kotite would be gone as opposed to just getting here. We also knew by mid/late 96 that Parcells and Kraft were at odds and there was a good chance we would get Parcells and the #1 overall pick after the season, which we did.
This year reminds me a lot of 1995, coach being new, except that we have a young QB trying to find his way as opposed to an aging star in Boomer. Boomer could have used some of Darnold's agility in 1995.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 04, 2019, 11:27:20 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 04, 2019, 12:01:54 PM
I am all in for having a tailgate this year if they fire this bag of dicks
That would actually be pretty fun
Post by: IATA on November 04, 2019, 12:27:27 PM
every day is progressively worst knowing adam gase is our coach than the previous day.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 12:38:42 PM
every day that adam gase is our coach is the worst day of my life.
every day is progressively worst knowing adam gase is our coach than the previous day.
This is exactly why 1996 was better than 1995, because we knew Kotite was a goner. Living through it is different than looking back at the records.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 04, 2019, 01:34:51 PM
This year sucks, let's hope they cut out the cancer and we as a fanbase can move on to a more stable team.
What I hope happens: they fire Gase, launch him to the moon really, give Douglas power to hire his guy and he in turn gives that guy the power to his own staff and then Douglas has a decent draft.
You would think this is all stuff that should and could happen, be achievable and would make the Jets a million times better off.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 04, 2019, 01:46:38 PM
I am not going back to the horror shows I have lived thru as a Jets fan. That's what makes SOJTFs, and I don't give three shits about being one of those.
This year sucks, let's hope they cut out the cancer and we as a fanbase can move on to a more stable team.
What I hope happens: they fire Gase, launch him to the moon really, give Douglas power to hire his guy and he in turn gives that guy the power to his own staff and then Douglas has a decent draft.
You would think this is all stuff that should and could happen, be achievable and would make the Jets a million times better off.
How exactly do you propose this organization suddenly learn competence?
excrement rolls downhill.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 02:34:43 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 02:36:34 PM
Slow times and slower times will beckon, but I think it would be interesting to discuss about what should de Jets do during the draft and free agency. I will start with my (limited) knowledge and I'll let the more knowledgeable guys (I'm looking at you Dreamers) to keep going.
QB: I would prefer us not to draft anyone and go with a veteran and the two young ones we have. Would Tyrod Taylor be a decent possibility? I would prefer him to Cutler or Romo as he would come cheaper. I'm not sold on any of the second tier ones though.
RB: I think we can survive with the two we have, although someone in the latter rounds of the draft could come in handy.
OL: The biggest priority. Carpenter and Shell will stay. I'd like Mangold to stay provided he takes a pay cut and move Johnson to guard. Let's see what happens with Winters. We would obviously need a LT after that and none seems to be good enough to reach for at 6. Any idea of latter rounds or veterans?
WR: I know I'm well in the minority here but I'd like both Marshall and Decker to stay, provided Marshall takes a pay cut. If not, good riddance. All the others should stay too.
TE: I'd like to keep Seferian-Jenkins and Tomlinson and add a good one on the draft.
DL: There's a problem with trading Sheldon and it's that he would probably give us less in return than what we'd get for him if we let him walk next year. Let's see how that situation pans out. Williams and Mo will obviously stay and I liked what I saw of Simon and McLendon (before his injury). Lawrence Thomas was interesting as well before getting hurt.
OLB: We're in deep excrement there. It seems Mauldin and Jenkins could be decent but not much more than that. The rest are garbage. I'd like us to address that position at 6 once and for all although last time we drafted one so high it was the worst bust in franchise history (Gholston).
ILB: I'd like to resign Harris at the right price. He's declining a bit but still busting his derriere on every snap, let's hope Lee polishes his flaws.
S: I don't know what to think of Pryor, I expected this to be his year but he was a mess, although the putrid state of our CBs didn't help. We need to get another one on FA as neither Miles nor Middleton are starting caliber.
CB: Goodbye Revis. Burn the unit to the ground and start anew. Trading down a bit to get Humphrey sounds like a good plan. Maybe keep Burris and Williams. In an ideal world, Skrine would stay to play exclusively in the slot.
Special teams: I'd like Folk to stay provided he agrees to a paycut. Bring some competition at P. Getting some decent depth players would be nice too to prevent the usual shitstorm.
So, to summarize.
I'd like to address the following positions at the draft: OLB, CB (x2), LT, TE, RB (late), S (late).
Free agency: QB, CB, S, OLB.
What do you guys think?
Here's what I mean--this post is less than three years old and the only person mentioned that is still here is McClendon. That has to change.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 04, 2019, 02:41:42 PM
How exactly do you propose this organization suddenly learn competence?I don't, it's just a hope rather than wallowing in self pity. Neither is productive.
excrement rolls downhill.
It s basically this:
Wish in one hand and excrement in the other and see what fills up first. I am not shitting in my hand even though I know hoping is folly.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 02:55:41 PM
I don't, it's just a hope rather than wallowing in self pity. Neither is productive.
It s basically this:
Wish in one hand and excrement in the other and see what fills up first. I am not shitting in my hand even though I know hoping is folly.
It's not self pity for me, just perspective. Like we've been through this before and came out of it ok. In 1995 and 96 we were a laughingstock, in 1998 we were a powerhouse. The mid 70s turned into the Sack Exchange era, but you need someone acquiring players that knows what they are doing.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on November 04, 2019, 02:57:42 PM
Here's what I mean--this post is less than three years old and the only person mentioned that is still here is McClendon. That has to change.
freak, I forgot about writing this post at all. It’s an extremely depressing read now. We were young and full of hope (not)
Post by: Badger on November 04, 2019, 05:48:55 PM
I am not going back to the horror shows I have lived thru as a Jets fan. That's what makes SOJTFs, and I don't give three shits about being one of those.
This year sucks, let's hope they cut out the cancer and we as a fanbase can move on to a more stable team.
What I hope happens: they fire Gase, launch him to the moon really, give Douglas power to hire his guy and he in turn gives that guy the power to his own staff and then Douglas has a decent draft.
You would think this is all stuff that should and could happen, be achievable and would make the Jets a million times better off.
I agree with your sentiment and I usually avoid wallowing in Jets misery but I felt the current moment needed to be "appreciated" for just how damn shitty it is.
I think things can and will get better - that's the key difference between this and SOJF mentality.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 04, 2019, 06:24:10 PM
Agreed.
I agree with your sentiment and I usually avoid wallowing in Jets misery but I felt the current moment needed to be "appreciated" for just how damn shitty it is.
I think things can and will get better - that's the key difference between this and SOJF mentality.
In terms of most miserable seasons since 2000, I would go...
1. 2005
2. 2016
3. 2014
4. 2012
5. 2007
I wasn't young enough to fully appreciate everything around the 1999 season, otherwise that would have been higher.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2019, 07:35:34 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2019, 12:08:04 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 13, 2019, 12:20:23 PM
Lookin like 2021/22
I think we can be competitive next year, if you mean around 500 and in the hunt through or past Thanksgiving. Probably the following year before we can expect to contend for the division, especially ours.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:18:26 PM
When’s the next time we’re competitive? 2020? 2021?
The AFC is bad enough that if we have a middle of the pack OL we could be competitive next year.
I mean the freaking Bills are one of the better afc teams. That's freaking insane
Post by: Pope on November 13, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
QB: Good with potential to be great
RB: Great but need OL help
WR: Decent but in need of a true #1
TE: Solid
OL: Terrible, need to allocate a lot of our draft and free agency to upgrade
DL: Solid, scheme dependent. Elite run Defense
LB: Good to great if everyones back (need edge rusher)
CB: Biggest need defensively. Similar to OL
Safety: Great
If Douglas finds a way to patch the biggest needs, especially at OL I think the team is a playoff contender. Would be nice if Maccagnan left us with some parting gifts from the draft with guys like Fatukasi, Austin, and Edoga, etc
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:35:47 PM
Realistically speaking when this Black Plague of injury leaves, going into next year we are looking at:
QB: Good with potential to be great
RB: Great but need OL help
WR: Decent but in need of a true #1
TE: Solid
OL: Terrible, need to allocate a lot of our draft and free agency to upgrade
DL: Solid, scheme dependent. Elite run Defense
LB: Good to great if everyones back (need edge rusher)
CB: Biggest need defensively. Similar to OL
Safety: Great
If Douglas finds a way to patch the biggest needs, especially at OL I think the team is a playoff contender. Would be nice if Maccagnan left us with some parting gifts from the draft with guys like Fatukasi, Austin, and Edoga, etc
I'm not calling running back great while we are 31st in rushing yards and 31st in YPC
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2019, 01:40:58 PM
And that's ignoring they may need to replace Enunwa and Anderson. And Bell will be significantly older at that point too.
2021 is the earliest I see this team start to be competitive. And 2022 is more likely for the next playoff appearance.
Post by: Pope on November 13, 2019, 01:41:50 PM
I'm not calling running back great while we are 31st in rushing yards and 31st in YPCI certainly wouldn’t call LeVeon Bell average. Our rushing stats are terrible because there is absolutely nowhere to run. Whether you blame that on scheme or injury or talent or whatever. I’m simply grading each unit on talent.
Saquon is a tremendous player but I’m not writing him off as dogshit because he had 1 rushing yard against a 1-7 Jets team
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:43:07 PM
I don't see how they're competitive next year. It's going to take at least 2 drafts to bring in enough OL to revamp the line. Then they've also got to address at least one corner position in the draft rather than just free agency. Maybe they can get an EDGE in FA, but they really need to try hitting in the draft there as well.
And that's ignoring they may need to replace Enunwa and Anderson. And Bell will be significantly older at that point too.
2021 is the earliest I see this team start to be competitive. And 2022 is more likely for the next playoff appearance.
With free agency and the draft the OL could be significantly better in a year. Surely it can't become great, but to go from historically bad to below average is an insane improvement
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:44:51 PM
I certainly wouldn’t call LeVeon Bell average. Our rushing stats are terrible because there is absolutely nowhere to run. Whether you blame that on scheme or injury or talent or whatever. I’m simply grading each unit on talent.
Saquon is a tremendous player but I’m not writing him off as dogshit because he had 1 rushing yard against a 1-7 Jets team
We've only seen Bell be elite with a good OL, and elite QB + top wideouts around him.
I'm not saying he's bad as he's an excellent blocker and leader. But he's never proven himself great on a garbage team
Between a year out of the league and not having stacked opportunities it's possible he's not great. He sure hasn't looked it this season
Post by: Pope on November 13, 2019, 01:47:53 PM
We've only seen Bell be elite with a good OL, and elite QB + top wideouts around him.Fair enough.. I’m comfortable keeping him as a top 10 RB based off his history and the glimpses this year. He’s made plays out of absolutely nothing to work with in the backfield. Statistically he’s been terrible but he has passed the eye test easily
I'm not saying he's bad as he's an excellent blocker and leader. But he's never proven himself great on a garbage team
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2019, 01:51:21 PM
With free agency and the draft the OL could be significantly better in a year. Surely it can't become great, but to go from historically bad to below average is an insane improvement
Good offensive linemen almost never hit the market. FA is not where you build your OL.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 01:57:14 PM
Good offensive linemen almost never hit the market. FA is not where you build your OL.
Can build and use bandaids.
And an OL doesn't need to be a "good" lineman to be a huge improvement for the team
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 13, 2019, 02:03:40 PM
Fair enough.. I’m comfortable keeping him as a top 10 RB based off his history and the glimpses this year. He’s made plays out of absolutely nothing to work with in the backfield. Statistically he’s been terrible but he has passed the eye test easily
Agreed, it's why you have to watch the games and not just stats. Bell can be great if we fix the line, and a big help to Darnold. Give him something.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2019, 02:24:23 PM
Can build and use bandaids.
And an OL doesn't need to be a "good" lineman to be a huge improvement for the team
Bandaids don't make playoff offensive lines. My definition of "competitive" is making the playoffs. This team won't make the playoffs until they revamp the OL, get at least one very good corner, and get someone who can actually hit the opposing QB.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 02:32:05 PM
Bandaids don't make playoff offensive lines. My definition of "competitive" is making the playoffs. This team won't make the playoffs until they revamp the OL, get at least one very good corner, and get someone who can actually hit the opposing QB.
Have you looked at the state of the AFC?
There's basically 3 powerhouses. One has a QB who could die of old age at any moment, one has an electric star QB who will eventually have his explosive ability sapped by injuries, one has no defense.
Then there's the Bills Browns Texans and former shell of the Steelers.
The talent of the AFC has really fallen, outside of the Bengals, Dolphins, and maybe Broncos I genuinely think any other afc team could be competitive with the playoffs next year. If Brady dies retires or has his arm sapped then any of those teams could be legit SB contenders.
The AFC is really lacking powerhouse teams
Post by: mj2sexay on November 13, 2019, 02:48:40 PM
They can fix the o-line in an off-season. It might take a little while for said o-line to gel with the new blood, sure.
With the obvious exception of Darnold, no ones development is more important to this team over the next half a season than Edoga for the very reason that it'll be a lot easier to replace one tackle as opposed to two.
If Edoga shows well at right tackle to end the year, I wouldn't be opposed to signing a veteran LT (Costanzo, Bulaga) in order to gain a little certainty at the position and free the team up to actually take a skill position player like a Jerry Jeudy in the 1st round. As of right now though, the way this team is presently constituted, Jeudy is a luxury we just can't afford.
Post by: Johnny English on November 13, 2019, 03:16:45 PM
Bandaids don't make playoff offensive lines.
Sure they do. 32 year old Alan Faneca and 32 year old Damien Woody weren't brought in to be long term starters, they were brought in as short term talent to get us into the playoffs and help develop our young OL talent in Brick and Mangold. If we go and draft say Andrew Thomas and Trey Smith, it makes a whole heap of sense to get a couple of vets like Trent Williams or Mike Iupati if they decide to test the market - they've both probably got a 3 year contract left in them.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 14, 2019, 04:48:58 AM
If our OL play and CB play can improve from atrocious to merely average, it would fix a lot of our problems. Easier said than done, but we will have draft capital and some money, so it's not totally crazy. It is vital that guys like Edoga or Austin show they can belong.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 14, 2019, 02:02:57 PM
I would argue almost any team in the league can be a playoff team in one offseason if things break their way.
In most cases, yes. The league is set up that way, you only need to be better than three teams in a given year to win your division and host a playoff game. Problem for us is since the league did that in 2002 we've had New England in our division, we've won it once, Miami once, Buffalo not at all. That won't last forever, in the meantime we build around the young talent we have.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 27, 2019, 11:40:23 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 28, 2019, 07:47:20 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on November 28, 2019, 08:00:47 AM
NFL Network: Last Jets win at Cincinnati was in 1997. Feeling it.
Wasn't the playoff win in 09 a road game?
Post by: Libero_2 on November 28, 2019, 08:04:01 AM
Wasn't the playoff win in 09 a road game?
Yes we won both games on the road that year
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 28, 2019, 08:11:33 AM
Wasn't the playoff win in 09 a road game?
It was, good call. They must have meant regular season.
Watched that playoff game at Disney of all things.
Post by: Badger on December 01, 2019, 06:05:19 PM
Post by: steves850 on December 01, 2019, 06:05:57 PM
Oh no we suck againRemember when we didn't?
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Post by: MBGreen on December 01, 2019, 06:15:34 PM
Remember when we didn't?Nope
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Post by: Italian Seafood on December 01, 2019, 06:40:30 PM
Nope
The Rex years.
#KeepRex
Post by: MBGreen on December 01, 2019, 07:20:45 PM
The Rex years.The Rex years started this....
#KeepRex
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 01, 2019, 07:47:34 PM
The Rex years started this....
Can't blame Rex for any of this. Still our last playoff appearances.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 01, 2019, 07:49:43 PM
Can't blame Rex for any of this. Still our last playoff appearances.
You just pine for mediocrity.
Post by: MBGreen on December 01, 2019, 08:12:33 PM
Can't blame Rex for any of this. Still our last playoff appearances.You can thank Mangini for those playoff years
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 01, 2019, 08:48:55 PM
Also, the logic you apply can he distorted to suit any narrative you want. Or if we're consistent then I guess Rex is responsible for Buffalo's success now.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 01, 2019, 08:53:22 PM
You guys plan of a new coach every year isn't working either.
We all wanted either Rhule or Harbaugh.
We got Gase instead, and predictably this has gone to excrement.
We don't want a new guy every year. We just want the right guy. Instead we got Bowles who failed miserably. And his replacement is the one guy most of the fanbase didnt want.
Post by: Badger on December 01, 2019, 09:10:58 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 01, 2019, 09:15:27 PM
(https://i.redd.it/5uf1molz63241.png)
If we had just won those two games, then we could be 6-6 right now.
Hell if we don't choke away the Bills game in addition we could be 7-5.
You need to win the games you SHOULD win, and defeating 0-7 or worse teams, are games just about any team SHOULD win. That is why Gase should be fired, because he can't win these games, hell he can't even be that competitive in them.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 01, 2019, 09:35:18 PM
If we had just won those two games, then we could be 6-6 right now.
Hell if we don't choke away the Bills game in addition we could be 7-5.
You need to win the games you SHOULD win, and defeating 0-7 or worse teams, are games just about any team SHOULD win. That is why Gase should be fired, because he can't win these games, hell he can't even be that competitive in them.
Interesting they have Beachum up there with the graphic. Not sure Jesus could get a win the way our O line played.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 01, 2019, 09:39:40 PM
(https://i.redd.it/5uf1molz63241.png)
Not the coach's fault at all.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 01, 2019, 09:43:31 PM
Not the coach's fault at all.
Of course it isn't, Gase is awesome. He should be here another 5 years because why hire the right guy, we need continuity whether he sucks derriere or not.
Post by: Pope on December 01, 2019, 11:23:18 PM
All this retarded screaming and yelling about Gase being the worst coach of all time is tiring. We’re not a good team and it showed again today
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 02, 2019, 12:37:04 AM
This team was middling at best prior to the injuries.
-Our safeties and ILBs were probably the two best groups coming in before Williamson hit IR in the preseason and Mosely became ineffective hours after the start of the season.
-Tru probably does us better on the IR than the field.
-Darryl Roberts was not an answer opposite Tru, and I don't think anyone saw Austin playing like he has been coming off of two ACL tears.
-Basically every corner that isn't Austin or Maulet(sometimes).
-Our OLine's talent level coming into this season could most likely be qualified as, "LOL!" Beachum is serviceable at LT, most of the time. Harrison might be the most talented player out of anyone on the OLine for their given position.
-Our receiving corps was incredibly underwhelming. Enunwa is a 2 at best. Anderson only flashes talent occasionally; he's just not that consistent.
-Injury demon striking again and taking Adams out.
Overall this team has consistently failed to commit to the offense in terms of quality personnel either in free agency or the draft time after time and it is painful. It is painful enough to make me question why I bother devoting this much time to them.
Gase's Fault:
This freaking offensive scheme where we went up against the worst run defense in the league who cannot set an edge and called 14 run plays to the inside, most of them directly at the defense's most talented player.
The offensive scheme that got us 8 losses including last night. The worst team in the league and he couldn't figure out away around their defense.
Penalties are the head coach's fault every time. Either prep your team better or hold the guy screwing up accountable.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 02, 2019, 12:50:57 AM
Not Gase's fault:
This team was middling at best prior to the injuries.
-Our safeties and ILBs were probably the two best groups coming in before Williamson hit IR in the preseason and Mosely became ineffective hours after the start of the season.
-Tru probably does us better on the IR than the field.
-Darryl Roberts was not an answer opposite Tru, and I don't think anyone saw Austin playing like he has been coming off of two ACL tears.
-Basically every corner that isn't Austin or Maulet(sometimes).
-Our OLine's talent level coming into this season could most likely be qualified as, "LOL!" Beachum is serviceable at LT, most of the time. Harrison might be the most talented player out of anyone on the OLine for their given position.
-Our receiving corps was incredibly underwhelming. Enunwa is a 2 at best. Anderson only flashes talent occasionally; he's just not that consistent.
-Injury demon striking again and taking Adams out.
Overall this team has consistently failed to commit to the offense in terms of quality personnel either in free agency or the draft time after time and it is painful. It is painful enough to make me question why I bother devoting this much time to them.
Gase's Fault:
This freaking offensive scheme where we went up against the worst run defense in the league who cannot set an edge and called 14 run plays to the inside, most of them directly at the defense's most talented player.
The offensive scheme that got us 8 losses including last night. The worst team in the league and he couldn't figure out away around their defense.
Penalties are the head coach's fault every time. Either prep your team better or hold the guy screwing up accountable.
I agree with almost of all of it except for the penalties. Most of them were due to our OLinemen being beaten and trying to compensate. That’s on talent not discipline. Also, how to hold a guy accountable when we literally don’t have anyone to replace him with?
Post by: ScotlandJet on December 02, 2019, 02:52:27 AM
It's time the front office started listening to the fanbase; we suck and need new leadership.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 02, 2019, 03:41:50 AM
Not heaping all the blame on Gaze because of other deficiencies in the team is taking a pragmatic view but after all the excrement we have had to deal with over the Bowles era can you imagine the outcry if we stick with Gaze and excrement the bed early next year?
It's time the front office started listening to the fanbase; we suck and need new leadership.
Someone else needs to buy this team.
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2019, 08:46:59 AM
Someone else needs to buy this team.
/thread
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 02, 2019, 09:03:50 AM
Someone else needs to buy this team.
I agree but we're still just wishing for things that aren't going to happen.
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2019, 09:13:44 AM
I agree but we're still just wishing for things that aren't going to happen.
The only person from this franchise i have faith in is Joe Douglas. I think he'll fix this roster in a season or 2.
But that's where it ends.
I don't think Gase will get us over the hump. I believe his ceiling is .500 with a healthy roster. Apparently he skipped Thanksgiving dinner with his family to game plan for Cincy, and we all saw what the fruits of his labor gave us. He's in over his head.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 02, 2019, 09:29:17 AM
The only person from this franchise i have faith in is Joe Douglas. I think he'll fix this roster in a season or 2.
But that's where it ends.
I don't think Gase will get us over the hump. I believe his ceiling is .500 with a healthy roster. Apparently he skipped Thanksgiving dinner with his family to game plan for Cincy, and we all saw what the fruits of his labor gave us. He's in over his head.
THIS X INFINITY
Post by: Miamipuck on December 02, 2019, 10:47:10 AM
Oh and if we can't hold him accountable for the numerous penalties and complete lack of discipline by his team, I mean that's on the players right? Then freaking Gase coached a freaking superb game.
Nothing wrong with the Jets, they're wonderfully coached but just have bad players.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 02, 2019, 10:58:06 AM
Hahaha he skipped Thanksgiving for that? That might be the funniest thing I have heard in a while.
Oh and if we can't hold him accountable for the numerous penalties and complete lack of discipline by his team, I mean that's on the players right? Then freaking Gase coached a freaking superb game.
Nothing wrong with the Jets, they're wonderfully coached but just have bad players.
Gase deserves credit for us being insanely undisciplined.
However you do also have to consider we had 4 freaking backup offensive linemen, on what's already a horrible oline.
Kelichi Kalil Winters Edoga, jsut freaking crazy the diasaster there.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 02, 2019, 11:00:26 AM
Gase deserves credit for us being insanely undisciplined.
However you do also have to consider we had 4 freaking backup offensive linemen, on what's already a horrible oline.
Kelichi Kalil Winters Edoga, jsut freaking crazy the diasaster there.
Throw Beachum in there because he is who we thought he was.
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2019, 11:09:35 AM
Gase deserves credit for us being insanely undisciplined.
However you do also have to consider we had 4 freaking backup offensive linemen, on what's already a horrible oline.
Kelichi Kalil Winters Edoga, jsut freaking crazy the diasaster there.
I always thought self-proclaimed offensive gurus had the skillset to gameplan around their offensive roster deficiencies. Maybe not after a game or 2, but in week 13...i think that's reasonable, to retain said "guru status".
From what i've seen so far, he's the furthest thing from being an offensive guru, and closer to gaining "offensive tard" status.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 02, 2019, 11:38:00 AM
For all the accolades for Williams on here, where was our D yesterday? How many 3rd and longs we going to let an 0-11 team get?
Post by: Johnny English on December 02, 2019, 11:58:54 AM
The problem with the O line isn't just that they don't block well, they also get positive plays called back. So you call a good play, they run it and some guy grabs and holds a leg, that's on the coach?
Yes, it absolutely is. Discipline and technique are instilled Monday-Friday. It is 100% on the coaching. If they're getting bullied off their blocks by superior talent then that's a different thing, but idiocy like Compton's? Completely on the coaches.
Do you think that Belichick and Scarnecchia would have that sort of thing happening with the same players?
Post by: Badger on December 02, 2019, 12:08:41 PM
Someone else needs to buy this team.
I agree but we're still just wishing for things that aren't going to happen.What if we all chip in on the JO PayPal account?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 02, 2019, 12:29:30 PM
Yes, it absolutely is. Discipline and technique are instilled Monday-Friday. It is 100% on the coaching. If they're getting bullied off their blocks by superior talent then that's a different thing, but idiocy like Compton's? Completely on the coaches.
Do you think that Belichick and Scarnecchia would have that sort of thing happening with the same players?
They find better players that can block without holding. If you're about to get beat you hold and hope you get away with it, same as in the secondary.
Or you punish them by taking them out of the game and putting in guys who weren't good enough to start over them n the first place, leading to more turmoil.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 02, 2019, 01:22:03 PM
Schmucks up in the booth had a better gameplan than the head coach and supposed offensive guru. But sure, we'll just say it's all the players' fault.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 02, 2019, 04:40:23 PM
But sure, we'll just say it's all the players' fault.
This is something I don't understand from some posters on this board who are vehemently against Gase, why is it either or? Either it's all Gase's fault or then the deflecting "blame everyone except Gase".
It's all not so black and white. Facts are this team is very devoid of talent on the offensive line, has been decimated by injuries and no, Gase's track record isn't the best, but to act like he is the worst coach to ever coach in the NFL is absurd.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 02, 2019, 05:02:45 PM
This is something I don't understand from some posters on this board who are vehemently against Gase, why is it either or? Either it's all Gase's fault or then the deflecting "blame everyone except Gase".Everything has to be black and white. There is no room for nuance.
It's all not so black and white. Facts are this team is very devoid of talent on the offensive line, has been decimated by injuries and no, Gase's track record isn't the best, but to act like he is the worst coach to ever coach in the NFL is absurd.
Gase hasnt done a good job. He was dealt an unwinnable hand with Falk and the OL but it is still embarrassing how they played in that stretch. We lost to 2 awful teams in Miami and Cincy. He seems like a weird dude. But hes here, and he isnt that bad. The only time he had a healthy QB, he made the playoffs.
And excrement, as soon as he got here, he recognized arguably our biggest issue - Maccagnan - and he helped correct it. Next year, Douglas will give him a new roster presumably, and it sill be on Gase to make it work.
The biggest issues with this team are personnel, largely due to injuries. No idea how people can watch yesterday's game and conclude the biggest reason we lost was due to the coaching.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 02, 2019, 06:26:16 PM
Everything has to be black and white. There is no room for nuance.
Gase hasnt done a good job. He was dealt an unwinnable hand with Falk and the OL but it is still embarrassing how they played in that stretch. We lost to 2 awful teams in Miami and Cincy. He seems like a weird dude. But hes here, and he isnt that bad. The only time he had a healthy QB, he made the playoffs.
And excrement, as soon as he got here, he recognized arguably our biggest issue - Maccagnan - and he helped correct it. Next year, Douglas will give him a new roster presumably, and it sill be on Gase to make it work.
The biggest issues with this team are personnel, largely due to injuries. No idea how people can watch yesterday's game and conclude the biggest reason we lost was due to the coaching.
You're complaining about black and white and post something completely freaking ridiculous like how can you watch yesterdays game and blame the coaches? Are you freaking kidding me with that stupid obnoxious self righteous Bullshit?
How about the litany of penalties, shitty play calling, lack of discipline, nnot too mention the poor game planning, lack of adjustment, the lethargy of the team, my God I can give a myriad of reasons why it was bad coaching so stick it.
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2019, 06:27:35 PM
Everything has to be black and white. There is no room for nuance.
Gase hasnt done a good job. He was dealt an unwinnable hand with Falk and the OL but it is still embarrassing how they played in that stretch. We lost to 2 awful teams in Miami and Cincy. He seems like a weird dude. But hes here, and he isnt that bad. The only time he had a healthy QB, he made the playoffs.
And excrement, as soon as he got here, he recognized arguably our biggest issue - Maccagnan - and he helped correct it. Next year, Douglas will give him a new roster presumably, and it sill be on Gase to make it work.
The biggest issues with this team are personnel, largely due to injuries. No idea how people can watch yesterday's game and conclude the biggest reason we lost was due to the coaching.
Do you believe Gase can lead this team to a Super bowl? Serious question (obviously not this year)
I don’t want to hear about nuances or black/white....straight up, you think he can get us to the championship game?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 02, 2019, 06:29:54 PM
The announcers, literally Spiro freaking Dides and Adam freaking Archuletta were calling out the lack of runs to the outside against the league's worst run defense all day.
Schmucks up in the booth had a better gameplan than the head coach and supposed offensive guru. But sure, we'll just say it's all the players' fault.
THIS.
Just because the fucktard owner isn't making a change, doesn't mean criticizing the HC is wrong. If you find it tiresome, buckle up...it isn't ending till he's gone.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 02, 2019, 06:35:37 PM
Everything has to be black and white. There is no room for nuance.
Gase hasnt done a good job. He was dealt an unwinnable hand with Falk and the OL but it is still embarrassing how they played in that stretch. We lost to 2 awful teams in Miami and Cincy. He seems like a weird dude. But hes here, and he isnt that bad. The only time he had a healthy QB, he made the playoffs.
And excrement, as soon as he got here, he recognized arguably our biggest issue - Maccagnan - and he helped correct it. Next year, Douglas will give him a new roster presumably, and it sill be on Gase to make it work.
The biggest issues with this team are personnel, largely due to injuries. No idea how people can watch yesterday's game and conclude the biggest reason we lost was due to the coaching.
His track record as a head coach is in a down hill trajectory. His claim to fame is cleaning Manning's jock as he put up record numbers.
If you want a guru, look at Williams. Crazy Gregg has done an amazing job with the injuries on D.
The same CANNOT be said about Gase and his offense...he hasn't done excrement.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 02, 2019, 06:45:11 PM
Do you believe Gase can lead this team to a Super bowl? Serious question (obviously not this year)
I don’t want to hear about nuances or black/white....straight up, you think he can get us to the championship game?
This should ALWAYS be the question. If everything breaks right, can Gase out coach / scheme opponents in the playoffs to win it all? If the answer is "yes," then he needs to stick around, if it's "maybe" then he should stick around awhile until you feel confident. If the answer is "I don't think so" or "no" then he should be removed of his duties.
For me, considering he can't out game plan an 0-7 Dolphins team where management is trying to tank, and an 0-11 Bengals team, he gets absolutely murdered by the Patriots (with Sam) and has been completely non-competitive in more games than he has had us competing in. He was flat as a pancake coming out of a bye week, hell he even decided to keep Falk as his guy during the bye, and didn't bring anyone else in, despite the fact he could have at least tried. Gase has failed to utilize one of the best RBs of the generation. Yes he has had injuries to his offense, but his offense has failed to score 10 points in 30% of the games this year, and failed to score more than 16 points in 67% of games. In several of those games we also had defensive TDs.
So for me, Gase, and his performance this season receives the "No" vote on his able to put his team in position to succeed in the postseason. In my eyes, unless he is the most talented team in the bracket, I would not expect them to have a real shot to advance to even a AFCCG let alone win it all. For that reason, I want him out of here sooner rather than later.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 02, 2019, 06:58:45 PM
Gase has failed to utilize one of the best RBs of the generation.
Superlative aside, I don't understand how this isn't a more common talking point. What about Bell does Gase think is not useful?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 03, 2019, 02:20:37 AM
Superlative aside, I don't understand how this isn't a more common talking point. What about Bell does Gase think is not useful?Bell is 12th in the NFL in rushing attempts and dead last in the NFL in yards per rush. There is no less efficient play in the NFL right now than the Jets handing off to Bell. He has had 183 carries this season and doesn't even have 600 yards.
He's dead last in yards per rush before contact as well. I don't think it's a matter of Gase not thinking Bell is useful. I think it's a matter of Gase thinking the offensive line is not useful when it comes to run blocking. And he's right.
Also, if your argument is that Gase is an idiot for not wanting to pay Bell, well, he was right! We shouldn't have paid Bell. Paying for running backs is stupid. Most running backs are as good as their offensive lines will let them be. That's why Thomas Jones went from garbage in 2007 to elite in 2008-09. Paying for Bell was a mistake. I like Bell, but it was.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 03, 2019, 02:35:27 AM
I don't think Gase will get us over the hump. I believe his ceiling is .500 with a healthy roster. Apparently he skipped Thanksgiving dinner with his family to game plan for Cincy, and we all saw what the fruits of his labor gave us. He's in over his head.The only time he's had a healthy roster, he took the Dolphins to their only playoff appearance in 15 years.
I know you and others have asked, "Do I think Gase can take the Jets to the Super Bowl?" And I agree with you that that's an important question. I just don't think it's one that can be answered yet.
I turned on Bowles faster than almost all of you. MBGreen and I were the first two I remember on the fire Bowles bandwagon. He made atrocious in-game decisions and the team stopped trying to compete for him.
I don't think this team has stopped competing. They've played hard all season, despite the lack of success. I also haven't seen any egregiously bad clock management/in-game decisions from Gase, other than punting down 16 to the Patriots with Falk, but they might have had a better chance to score on another muffed punt than they did with Falk running the team.
I think it's a high bar to fire a coach after one season. We are 4-5 with Sam Darnold as our quarterback. The 2.5 Falk games were unwinnable. What I saw from the Cincinnati game was a team that could not compete in the trenches offensively, even against an atrocious Bengals team. Some of that is coaching, but the vast majority of that is talent. And defensively, they couldn't get off the field when they needed to.
Entering the season, most of us agreed that the Jets had talent to compete, but they lacked depth. Well, when your QB gets mono, your #2 WR gets hurt, your OL changes every week, your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th LBs all miss multiple games, and your cornerbacks change seemingly every week, that doesn't help a team that lacks depth.
He's definitely on the hot seat when next season starts, but as long as we're happy with where Sam Darnold is in Week 17, I think Gase should come back another year.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 03, 2019, 05:56:18 AM
Bell is 12th in the NFL in rushing attempts and dead last in the NFL in yards per rush. There is no less efficient play in the NFL right now than the Jets handing off to Bell. He has had 183 carries this season and doesn't even have 600 yards.
He's dead last in yards per rush before contact as well. I don't think it's a matter of Gase not thinking Bell is useful. I think it's a matter of Gase thinking the offensive line is not useful when it comes to run blocking. And he's right.
Also, if your argument is that Gase is an idiot for not wanting to pay Bell, well, he was right! We shouldn't have paid Bell. Paying for running backs is stupid. Most running backs are as good as their offensive lines will let them be. That's why Thomas Jones went from garbage in 2007 to elite in 2008-09. Paying for Bell was a mistake. I like Bell, but it was.
You are giving him a lot of credit for deciding to be a one dimensional offense, especially against the worst run defending team in the league.
Leveon Bell isn't as bad as his current ranking. An NFL calibur coach and offensive staff should be able to get more out of Bell than we we are right now.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 03, 2019, 06:31:12 AM
He's definitely on the hot seat when next season starts, but as long as we're happy with where Sam Darnold is in Week 17, I think Gase should come back another year.
If he is going to start NEXT season on the hot seat, what the freak is the point? It means nobody really believes in him. At that point we are just expecting to waste a year of Darnold's youth and development.
Post by: Jumbo on December 03, 2019, 07:32:06 AM
Bell is 12th in the NFL in rushing attempts and dead last in the NFL in yards per rush. There is no less efficient play in the NFL right now than the Jets handing off to Bell. He has had 183 carries this season and doesn't even have 600 yards.
He's dead last in yards per rush before contact as well. I don't think it's a matter of Gase not thinking Bell is useful. I think it's a matter of Gase thinking the offensive line is not useful when it comes to run blocking. And he's right.
Also, if your argument is that Gase is an idiot for not wanting to pay Bell, well, he was right! We shouldn't have paid Bell. Paying for running backs is stupid. Most running backs are as good as their offensive lines will let them be. That's why Thomas Jones went from garbage in 2007 to elite in 2008-09. Paying for Bell was a mistake. I like Bell, but it was.
No OL is so bad that an All-Pro caliber RB should be dead last in YPC because of them.
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 09:04:08 AM
I know you and others have asked, "Do I think Gase can take the Jets to the Super Bowl?" And I agree with you that that's an important question. I just don't think it's one that can be answered yet.
Yes it can. Gase isn't a rookie HC. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. He wasn't the answer in Miami, and he's pulling the same crap here, which means he isn't the answer here either. I have zero faith that we'll reach the playoffs with this clown, let alone a Super Bowl. We're making the exact same mistake the Bills made when they hired Rex.
Quote
He's definitely on the hot seat when next season starts, but as long as we're happy with where Sam Darnold is in Week 17, I think Gase should come back another year.
lol
If he's on the hot seat next Sept, why wait? let's be proactive for once and hire the right guy.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 03, 2019, 10:32:56 AM
For me, considering he can't out game plan an 0-7 Dolphins team where management is trying to tank,
If this were actually true, Josh Rosen would be taking snaps as the starter. Management for sure wanted to tear it down to build something better, but there's a difference between that and outright tanking.
Yes it can. Gase isn't a rookie HC. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. He wasn't the answer in Miami, and he's pulling the same crap here, which means he isn't the answer here either. I have zero faith that we'll reach the playoffs with this clown, let alone a Super Bowl. We're making the exact same mistake the Bills made when they hired Rex.
lol
If he's on the hot seat next Sept, why wait? let's be proactive for once and hire the right guy.
I wholeheartedly believe Atlanta wins a super bowl if they hired Rex over Quinn, especially if he's married to Shanahan in that job.
Further, since you're proposing a firing and want to hire the right guy, who? Rhule? Because college coaches jumping to the NFL are guaranteed success, just ask Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Mike Riley, Bobby Petrino, Dennis Erickson, Greg Schiano, Chip Kelly, Steve Spurrier, Butch Davis, the list goes on and on. That list features multiple national champions and a guy who's considered to be the best college coach along with Urban Meyer of his era.
The fact is, the guy you guys wanted was run out of town by a generational talent at quarterback and a team that has gone from a 6 win season to 8-2. For all of the "Gase rode Manning's jock" talk, there seems to be a massive blindspot to the fact that McCarthy was carried to success by a quarterback he didn't even want when he had the chance to give significant input in drafting him.
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 10:52:03 AM
Further, since you're proposing a firing and want to hire the right guy, who? Rhule? Because college coaches jumping to the NFL are guaranteed success, just ask Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Mike Riley, Bobby Petrino, Dennis Erickson, Greg Schiano, Chip Kelly, Steve Spurrier, Butch Davis, the list goes on and on. That list features multiple national champions and a guy who's considered to be the best college coach along with Urban Meyer of his era.
Rhule would've been a risk worth taking. But hey, let's go with the known failure instead.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 03, 2019, 10:54:56 AM
Rhule would've been a risk worth taking. But hey, let's go with the known failure instead.
Except he's not a known failure.
How many wins given their talent level should that Miami team have gotten last year, especially considering they played a quarter of the season without their starting quarterback?
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 10:57:40 AM
Except he's not a known failure.
How many wins given their talent level should that Miami team have gotten last year, especially considering they played a quarter of the season without their starting quarterback?
Yes, he's a failure. And if he wasn't such a big social retard, he'd probably be on TV sitting next to Rex next year.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 03, 2019, 11:03:33 AM
Except he's not a known failure.
How many wins given their talent level should that Miami team have gotten last year, especially considering they played a quarter of the season without their starting quarterback?
If he's not a failure, why did Miami fire him?
Also he had his starting QB but couldn't manage to beat a winless Bengals team?
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 11:07:56 AM
If he's not a failure, why did Miami fire him?
Also he had his starting QB but couldn't manage to beat a winless Bengals team?
Gase got outcoached by 2 winless rookie HC coaches....
#NotAFailureSZN
Post by: mj2sexay on December 03, 2019, 11:12:48 AM
If he's not a failure, why did Miami fire him?
Also he had his starting QB but couldn't manage to beat a winless Bengals team?
He and Ross reached an impasse and had a personality clash. Mangini got fired from the Jets for the exact same reason, and the same voice calling Gase a failure around here would agree with me in that firing Mangini was a regrettable decision. It happens.
Gase got outcoached by 2 winless rookie HC coaches....
#NotAFailureSZN
He didn't get outcoached by Taylor though. When your receivers are dropping wide open passes and your o-line can't block anyone, that's not getting outcoached. He got away from the run game way too quickly and didn't go to the outside nearly enough. Agreed. But that's not anything Zac Taylor did.
Doug Pederson won a super bowl and just got outcoached by Brian Flores. It happens.
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2019, 11:16:22 AM
He and Ross reached an impasse and had a personality clash. Mangini got fired from the Jets for the exact same reason, and the same voice calling Gase a failure around here would agree with me in that firing Mangini was a regrettable decision. It happens.
He didn't get outcoached by Taylor though. When your receivers are dropping wide open passes and your o-line can't block anyone, that's not getting outcoached. He got away from the run game way too quickly and didn't go to the outside nearly enough. Agreed. But that's not anything Zac Taylor did.
Doug Pederson won a super bowl and just got outcoached by Brian Flores. It happens.
Doug Pederson has outcoached Belichick and won a Super bowl. He's earned the right to lose a few without criticism.
Gase hasn't earned excrement.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 03, 2019, 12:33:06 PM
This is something I don't understand from some posters on this board who are vehemently against Gase, why is it either or? Either it's all Gase's fault or then the deflecting "blame everyone except Gase".
It's all not so black and white. Facts are this team is very devoid of talent on the offensive line, has been decimated by injuries and no, Gase's track record isn't the best, but to act like he is the worst coach to ever coach in the NFL is absurd.
I think it was in the game recap thread, but I specifically said it wasn't just the coaching, nor just the play on the field, nor just the talent (or lack thereof) that lost this week. It was all 3.
This roster is poor, but it's also poorly coached. They are mutually exclusive and can both be true.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 03, 2019, 04:35:17 PM
I think it was in the game recap thread, but I specifically said it wasn't just the coaching, nor just the play on the field, nor just the talent (or lack thereof) that lost this week. It was all 3.
This roster is poor, but it's also poorly coached. They are mutually exclusive and can both be true.
Thank you, no one is saying he's 100% of the problem but he sucks.
Post by: Badger on December 04, 2019, 12:10:21 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 04, 2019, 12:13:33 PM
Starting to get worried that we lose out the rest of the season. Hope we don't.
Long as Darnold is healthy there's 0 chance of that
Post by: Badger on December 04, 2019, 12:15:42 PM
Long as Darnold is healthy there's 0 chance of thatRavens, Steelers, and Bills are all better than us. We've already lost to Miami once.
I'm not predicting 0-4 down the stretch but it's entirely reasonable.
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2019, 12:19:00 PM
Ravens, Steelers, and Bills are all better than us. We've already lost to Miami once.
I'm not predicting 0-4 down the stretch but it's entirely reasonable.
Our starting secondary might not be playing this Sunday
Post by: bojanglesman on December 04, 2019, 12:35:08 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 04, 2019, 12:39:35 PM
The only hope we have of beating the Dolphins is that its a home game. We seem to play a little better there. Fitz is competent enough to beat our depleted defense.
Won 3 of the last 4 at home, loss being to the Pats. Other two losses were by a point to Buffalo and the Cleveland game when we lost Simien and had to go with Falk.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 04, 2019, 01:06:36 PM
Fitz may throw for 400 yards. If Miami doesn't pass 80% of the time, I don't think they are trying. It would be idiotic to run against the Jets with our lack of talent on the backend. I'd throw deep all day. It'll be completions and PI penalties all day.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 04, 2019, 01:20:38 PM
I'm not sure how Gregg is going to continue propping up this defense after having to raid the local junior high for defensive backs.
Fitz may throw for 400 yards. If Miami doesn't pass 80% of the time, I don't think they are trying. It would be idiotic to run against the Jets with our lack of talent on the backend. I'd throw deep all day. It'll be completions and PI penalties all day.
Hit Fitz in his ugly 18th century face, early and often.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 04, 2019, 01:44:13 PM
I'm not sure how Gregg is going to continue propping up this defense after having to raid the local junior high for defensive backs.
Fitz may throw for 400 yards. If Miami doesn't pass 80% of the time, I don't think they are trying. It would be idiotic to run against the Jets with our lack of talent on the backend. I'd throw deep all day. It'll be completions and PI penalties all day.
Isn't this exactly what Cincy did all day? Teams will throw against the Jets until they show them they can't stop it. Spoiler: they won't.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 04, 2019, 02:40:57 PM
NY Post (https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/jets-screwed-up-chance-to-steal-afc-east-from-patriots/)
Interesting premise but I think he's being kind of dramatic for a few reasons:
-Patriots are still 10-2 and their demise has been written up many times. Still, they can't last forever.
-Buffalo isn't the next dynasty. They could be having a good season and still be a Wild Card like we were during the 2000s.
-Darnold and Allen both figure to hit their primes around the time Brady and Belichick are done, so we're early in the process.
Post by: Badger on December 07, 2019, 08:55:51 AM
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2019, 09:29:18 PM
https://twitter.com/MMehtaNYDN/status/1203835001118380032?s=19
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2019, 09:29:51 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 08, 2019, 09:59:07 PM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1203831998328004608?s=19
It'll be 10 straight after next year as long as this bag of dildos, remains our HC
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2019, 10:13:52 PM
It'll be 10 straight after next year as long as this bag of dildos, remains our HCTo be fair Herm is widely regarded as kind of an idiot among Jets fans and he went 3 times in 5 years. So there's a chance.
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
To be fair Herm is widely regarded as kind of an idiot among Jets fans and he went 3 times in 5 years. So there's a chance.
yeah but...Herm plays to win the game.
Post by: WD40 on December 09, 2019, 07:49:03 AM
freak, that man could give a goddamned speech.
I was taking my son to basketball practice last week and there, right on the goddamned door to the gym, was some fluff quote from Herm Edwards on high school athletics.
Anyway, on topic, this discussion of the last time the team was this depressing. It occurred to me that my son, now eight years old, actually attended the last Jets playoff game. My wife, about two months pregnant, went with me to the cold-as-freak Pittsburgh playoff game in 2010. Poor kid has never seen a good Jets team in his lifetime.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 09, 2019, 10:13:21 AM
To be fair Herm is widely regarded as kind of an idiot among Jets fans and he went 3 times in 5 years. So there's a chance.
Fans are often idiots themselves. Herm did a good job here, had his deficiencies but got results. The two years he lost Pennington hurt his record, especially the last one when he checked out and we all knew he was going to KC.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 12:56:21 PM
Fans are often idiots themselves. Herm did a good job here, had his deficiencies but got results. The two years he lost Pennington hurt his record, especially the last one when he checked out and we all knew he was going to KC.
Agree with your point on Herm.
Gase will be the worst coaching hire in franchise history. He even surpasses Kotite, because Gase has a potential franchise QB and he's single-handedly ruining him. We're not sniffing the playoffs with this asshat HC who's more focused on proving his excrement offensive scheme works versus trying to develop an offense that plays to Sam's strengths.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 01:29:43 PM
Agree with your point on Herm.Gase is 4-1 in his last 5 games. Kotite was 4-28 in 2 seasons.
Gase will be the worst coaching hire in franchise history. He even surpasses Kotite, because Gase has a potential franchise QB and he's single-handedly ruining him. We're not sniffing the playoffs with this asshat HC who's more focused on proving his excrement offensive scheme works versus trying to develop an offense that plays to Sam's strengths.
Darnold has 11 TD (9 Pass TD) and 2 Int in that stretch.
But sure, he is worse than Kotite and Darnold is ruined.
#shitpost
Post by: bojanglesman on December 09, 2019, 01:31:40 PM
Gase is 4-1 in his last 5 games. Kotite was 4-28 in 2 seasons.While some of your post is valid, keep in mind we haven't exactly played a bunch of Super Bowl contenders in the last 5 games.
Darnold has 11 TD (9 Pass TD) and 2 Int in that stretch.
But sure, he is worse than Kotite and Darnold is ruined.
#shitpost
Gase can be shitty and not as bad as Kotite at the same time.
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2019, 01:32:55 PM
While some of your post is valid, keep in mind we haven't exactly played a bunch of Super Bowl contenders in the last 5 games.
We beat a 3-9 team on a last minute FG. We can hang with anybody.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 01:37:51 PM
While some of your post is valid, keep in mind we haven't exactly played a bunch of Super Bowl contenders in the last 5 games.Exactly. It is just hard to take posts seriously when they say Gase is worse than Kotite.
Gase can be shitty and not as bad as Kotite at the same time.
I dont care if they fire Gase after the season but people blame every one of the issues for this team on Gase and it is far deeper than that
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 01:42:52 PM
Exactly. It is just hard to take posts seriously when they say Gase is worse than Kotite.
I dont care if they fire Gase after the season but people blame every one of the issues for this team on Gase and it is far deeper than that
I mean if you want to say Kotite's the worst and Gase is #2, that's fine.
excrement, look how well Tannehill is playing in Tennessee with some no name OC. I doubt he was ever that productive in Miami under the tutelage of this fucktard.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 09, 2019, 01:44:44 PM
Gase will be the worst coaching hire in franchise history.
There's issuing a factual criticism of the guy because there are things he does that makes one scratch their head, and then there's just idiotic hyperbole thats being said out of no other interest than wanting to be right.
This is absurd on so many levels.
Darnold's completing passes at a 63 percent clip with a positive td to int ratio despite not having a true number 1 receiver or any semblance of an offensive line, but sure he's ruined.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 01:44:47 PM
Gase is 4-1 in his last 5 games. Kotite was 4-28 in 2 seasons.
Darnold has 11 TD (9 Pass TD) and 2 Int in that stretch.
But sure, he is worse than Kotite and Darnold is ruined.
#shitpost
We lost to a WINLESS team and looked freaking terrible in doing so. You don't want to put any of the onus on him?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 01:46:10 PM
I know nobody wants to hear it but I dont think our 5-8 record is underachieving given our talent level.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 01:52:13 PM
There's issuing a factual criticism of the guy because there are things he does that makes one scratch their head, and then there's just idiotic hyperbole thats being said out of no other interest than wanting to be right.
This is absurd on so many levels.
Darnold's completing passes at a 63 percent clip with a positive td to int ratio despite not having a true number 1 receiver or any semblance of an offensive line, but sure he's ruined.
He played at a similar level during the last four games of 2018 with a guy who was roaming Mongolia before becoming our OC, so his performance already trending upward. Sam's performance this year would be the same if not better with any other HC in the league.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 01:52:58 PM
We lost to a WINLESS team and looked freaking terrible in doing so. You don't want to put any of the onus on him?The Jets are a bad team with all our injuries. That was a bad loss but this team isn't talented enough to expect to win road games against anyone consistently.
Sorry Gase only went 4-1 instead of 5-0 with this team.
Post by: Pope on December 09, 2019, 01:53:48 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 01:58:43 PM
The Jets are a bad team with all our injuries. That was a bad loss but this team isn't talented enough to expect to win road games against anyone consistently.
Sorry Gase only went 4-1 instead of 5-0 with this team.
C'mon man, we looked noncompetitive in that game. You want to give him a free pass when Sam was out, fine.
But, the offense can't look that inept when you have your starting QB and just beat Oakland.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 09, 2019, 02:00:54 PM
I’m no fan of Gase, never was, but I just don’t have enough information to judge him accurately. This has been a really stupid season with half our team on IR and Sam getting freaking mono of all things. We’ve put up some absolutely excrement tier performances and had some nice games as well. If he’s fired at the end of the year I’ll completely understand but if he stays on for next season I don’t think it’s exactly wrong either.
Y U NO HATE GASE MOAR?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 09, 2019, 02:01:45 PM
C'mon man, we looked noncompetitive in that game. You want to give him a free pass when Sam was out, fine.So if we lost to Oakland and beat Cincinnati, you would be okay?
But, the offense can't look that inept when you have your starting QB and just beat Oakland.
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2019, 02:02:29 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 09, 2019, 02:03:01 PM
So if we lost to Oakland and beat Cincinnati, you would be okay?
it would've made more sense
Post by: Johnny English on December 09, 2019, 03:54:49 PM
We lost to a WINLESS team and looked freaking terrible in doing so. You don't want to put any of the onus on him?Atcherly we lost to two winless teams.
I'm not joining in the hyperbole about where he sits in the extensive pantheon of excrement Jets coaches, but the playcalling in the second half yesterday was absolutely rotten. He doesn't seem to understand the game that's actually happening on the field, only the one that he has written down in his book. I think he spends the week watching video and preparing for the game he thinks he's going to see, then sticks to that plan regardless of what actually happens on gameday.
Post by: delavan on December 09, 2019, 06:02:49 PM
He doesn't seem to understand the game that's actually happening on the field, only the one that he has written down in his book.Meaning he's a glorified quality control coach with no true feel for the game? I wouldn't disagree.
I think he spends the week watching video and preparing for the game he thinks he's going to see, then sticks to that plan regardless of what actually happens on gameday.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 09, 2019, 06:46:31 PM
Atcherly we lost to two winless teams.
I'm not joining in the hyperbole about where he sits in the extensive pantheon of excrement Jets coaches, but the playcalling in the second half yesterday was absolutely rotten. He doesn't seem to understand the game that's actually happening on the field, only the one that he has written down in his book. I think he spends the week watching video and preparing for the game he thinks he's going to see, then sticks to that plan regardless of what actually happens on gameday.
Spot on
Post by: Johnny English on December 09, 2019, 07:22:04 PM
Meaning he's a glorified quality control coach with no true feel for the game? I wouldn't disagree.
Maybe a bit more than that, I assume that he's the one designing the plays as well. I think he's probably a QB coach / passing game co-ordinator who understands the game on a conceptual level, but hasn't ever figured out how to react to what the defense is doing. It would explain why our opening drive often looks good, and why on occasion we can look really good for most or all of a game - the opening drive is scripted and the defense is still feeling out what we're doing, and sometimes defenses just don't react well. And I know you can't read too much into TV images of a coach's demeanour, but it would also explain why literally every single sideline shot of Gase during a game is head down in a playbook. Maybe he honestly believes the answer to things not working is for the players to execute his plays better rather than to change the plays up.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 10, 2019, 02:09:12 AM
Maybe a bit more than that, I assume that he's the one designing the plays as well. I think he's probably a QB coach / passing game co-ordinator who understands the game on a conceptual level, but hasn't ever figured out how to react to what the defense is doing. It would explain why our opening drive often looks good, and why on occasion we can look really good for most or all of a game - the opening drive is scripted and the defense is still feeling out what we're doing, and sometimes defenses just don't react well. And I know you can't read too much into TV images of a coach's demeanour, but it would also explain why literally every single sideline shot of Gase during a game is head down in a playbook. Maybe he honestly believes the answer to things not working is for the players to execute his plays better rather than to change the plays up.I think the biggest reason for our inconsistency is our offensive line. I feel we have moved the ball well when we haven't had penalties, sacks and drops. 2 of the 3 of those are directly on the OL. And when we end up off script, we've been dead. Lately, we actually have converted a few 3rd and longs but that is still rare. The success on opening drives I think is largely because we have a brand new offense and being able to have reps on the practice squad makes them better at executing it. And part of it is fluky.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 10, 2019, 11:14:21 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 10, 2019, 11:49:18 AM
Exactly. It is just hard to take posts seriously when they say Gase is worse than Kotite.
I dont care if they fire Gase after the season but people blame every one of the issues for this team on Gase and it is far deeper than that
You keep repeating this straw man argument.
Everyone who wants to fire him because he's an awful coach also says this roster is terrible. Again, both things are mutually exclusive and can be (are) true.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 10, 2019, 11:53:04 AM
Maybe a bit more than that, I assume that he's the one designing the plays as well. I think he's probably a QB coach / passing game co-ordinator who understands the game on a conceptual level, but hasn't ever figured out how to react to what the defense is doing. It would explain why our opening drive often looks good, and why on occasion we can look really good for most or all of a game - the opening drive is scripted and the defense is still feeling out what we're doing, and sometimes defenses just don't react well. And I know you can't read too much into TV images of a coach's demeanour, but it would also explain why literally every single sideline shot of Gase during a game is head down in a playbook. Maybe he honestly believes the answer to things not working is for the players to execute his plays better rather than to change the plays up.
I mean, that's literally what he says in his postgame press conferences after every single loss.
I mentioned it yesterday, the only times he's "taken blame" for not making good play calls has been after wins. Really bold of the guy to take a share of the blame when no one is pissed off they lost. And even then, he still said they could've executed better.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 10, 2019, 12:53:59 PM
You keep repeating this straw man argument.
Everyone who wants to fire him because he's an awful coach also says this roster is terrible. Again, both things are mutually exclusive and can be (are) true.
So he's a terrible coach who's managed to go .500 with a terrible roster when he has his starting quarterback?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 10, 2019, 01:19:15 PM
So he's a terrible coach who's managed to go .500 with a terrible roster when he has his starting quarterback?
So you think Adam Gase won the Miami game? Not Sam Darnold somehow connecting with Vyncint Smith? Nor thanks to a gift by replay officials that got them an overturn on an uncalled DPI? Nor because Greg Williams prepared a mediocre defense to hold a great red zone offense to nothing but field goals?
It really comes down to whether you believe his teams win because of him or in spite of him. Needless to say, I fall into the latter category.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 10, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
So you think Adam Gase won the Miami game? Not Sam Darnold somehow connecting with Vyncint Smith? Nor thanks to a gift by replay officials that got them an overturn on an uncalled DPI? Nor because Greg Williams prepared a mediocre defense to hold a great red zone offense to nothing but field goals?
It really comes down to whether you believe his teams win because of him or in spite of him. Needless to say, I fall into the latter category.
I'm not going to classify that as a gift considering the calls that went against the Jets, specifically the ridiculous roughing the passer call on Shep and the holding call on the interception. Not to mention the fact that the play in question actually was actually pass interference.
By virtue of being the head coach, it goes as a win on his record, does it not? If you can acknowledge that the talent on this team is wanting, or "terrible" as you call it (and I agree, certain position groups you can argue are the worst in the league), then surely a guy who can put up a .500 record with said terrible talent can't be that bad a head coach.
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 02:04:25 PM
I'm not going to classify that as a gift considering the calls that went against the Jets, specifically the ridiculous roughing the passer call on Shep and the holding call on the interception. Not to mention the fact that the play in question actually was actually pass interference.
By virtue of being the head coach, it goes as a win on his record, does it not? If you can acknowledge that the talent on this team is wanting, or "terrible" as you call it (and I agree, certain position groups you can argue are the worst in the league), then surely a guy who can put up a .500 record with said terrible talent can't be that bad a head coach.
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense. Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.
Tomlin = a good HC
Gase = a fraud
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 10, 2019, 02:08:41 PM
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense. Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.
Tomlin = a good HC
Gase = a fraud
THIS
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 10, 2019, 02:09:17 PM
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense. Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.
Tomlin = a good HC
Gase = a fraud
He's also been there long time and they have a system in place. That's what happens when you don't fire the coach every year.
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 02:10:34 PM
He's also been there long time and they have a system in place. That's what happens when you don't fire the coach every year.
He also won a Super Bowl in his 2nd year as a HC....and made it to the playoffs in his rookie HC year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 10, 2019, 02:18:28 PM
So you think Adam Gase won the Miami game? Not Sam Darnold somehow connecting with Vyncint Smith? Nor thanks to a gift by replay officials that got them an overturn on an uncalled DPI? Nor because Greg Williams prepared a mediocre defense to hold a great red zone offense to nothing but field goals?I forgot. Good plays are because Darnold is a stud. Bad plays are because Gase sucks.
It really comes down to whether you believe his teams win because of him or in spite of him. Needless to say, I fall into the latter category.
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense. Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.The Steelets have a very good OL and an elite defense. No doubt Tomlin has fone a great job but the Steelers are very talented outside QB.
Tomlin = a good HC
Gase = a fraud
I don't love Gaee but saying good plays are because Darnold is good and bad plays is because Gase is bad is impossible to argue against. You could also argue that if Darnold hit any number of an open receivers he missed, we would have won by 2 touchdowns. But I know Darnold missing throws is all on Gase.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 10, 2019, 02:20:22 PM
I forgot. Good plays are because Darnold is a stud. Bad plays are because Gase sucks.The Steelets have a very good OL and an elite defense. No doubt Tomlin has fone a great job but the Steelers are very talented outside QB.
I don't love Gaee but saying good plays are because Darnold is good and bad plays is because Gase is bad is impossible to argue against. You could also argue that if Darnold hit any number of an open receivers he missed, we would have won by 2 touchdowns. But I know Darnold missing throws is all on Gase.
Get on with the times. Everything is on Gase.
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 02:29:25 PM
Get on with the times. Everything is on Gase.
You're right. His impeccable pedigree, history and offensive mind are on par with Bill Walsh. Reward that piece of teflon with a 10 year extension.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 10, 2019, 02:30:29 PM
You're right. His impeccable pedigree, history and offensive mind are on par with Bill Walsh. Reward that piece of teflon with a 10 year extension.Good job arguing against nobody. Well done
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 02:38:16 PM
Good job arguing against nobody. Well done
Did we sign him yet? We're wasting time.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 10, 2019, 03:15:09 PM
I forgot. Good plays are because Darnold is a stud. Bad plays are because Gase sucks.The Steelets have a very good OL and an elite defense. No doubt Tomlin has fone a great job but the Steelers are very talented outside QB.
I don't love Gaee but saying good plays are because Darnold is good and bad plays is because Gase is bad is impossible to argue against. You could also argue that if Darnold hit any number of an open receivers he missed, we would have won by 2 touchdowns. But I know Darnold missing throws is all on Gase.
I think the vast majority of playcalls are atrocious all game long. I also think Darnold keeps making salads out of the chicken excrement Gase provides him. It's not a "Gase is responsible for the bad plays, and Darnold is responsible for the good ones." It's "Gase keeps calling excrement plays and Darnold has the talent to make things happen."
Get on with the times. Everything is on Gase.
See next quote:
Good job arguing against nobody. Well done
Post by: Badger on December 10, 2019, 05:59:15 PM
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense. Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.To be fair you'd probably turn on Tomlin in 20 games.
Tomlin = a good HC
Gase = a fraud
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 10, 2019, 07:18:49 PM
To be fair you'd probably turn on Tomlin in 20 games.
You're exaggerating by 19 games :P
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2019, 07:59:31 PM
To be fair you'd probably turn on Tomlin in 20 games.Just win babbie
Post by: Heismanberg on December 10, 2019, 08:13:10 PM
Mike Tomlin is in striking distance of a playoff spot with a 3rd string QB and other injuries to his offense. Instead of making excuses, he's making half time adjustments to win games.
Tomlin = a good HC
Gase = a fraud
Mike Tomlin's also been that franchise's head coach for over a decade. Everyone on that roster is someone he's cool with having.
Their front office also isn't a revolving door like ours has been.
He's done a hell of a job and should be the coach of the year, but that franchise has stability from top to bottom. Ours does not.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 10, 2019, 09:32:21 PM
Mike Tomlin's also been that franchise's head coach for over a decade. Everyone on that roster is someone he's cool with having.
Their front office also isn't a revolving door like ours has been.
He's done a hell of a job and should be the coach of the year, but that franchise has stability from top to bottom. Ours does not.
Bingo
Post by: Miamipuck on December 11, 2019, 09:18:33 AM
Stability is great but not when you have the parade of crap the Jets have had from Tanny and Rex thru Duff and Gase. Every single one of those clowns was given the appropriate amount of leash to hang themselves. So freak off with the stability Bullshit. Hire the right people for freaking once and there will be stability
But hey thanks for telling us excrement we already know.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 09:20:28 AM
In what freaking world does stability and hiring complete excrement equal out.
Stability is great but not when you have the parade of crap the Jets have had from Tanny and Rex thru Duff and Gase. Every single one of those clowns was given the appropriate amount of leash to hang themselves. So freak off with the stability Bullshit. Hire the right people for freaking one and there will be stability
But hey thanks for telling us excrement we already know.
This guy gets it.
Seafood should read this post a few times too, and let it sink in.
Heis was right, this franchise is a revolving door...it's because they keep hiring turds.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 10:20:46 AM
This guy gets it.
Seafood should read this post a few times too, and let it sink in.
Heis was right, this franchise is a revolving door...it's because they keep hiring turds.
So you want the same people to hire someone else. Makes perfect sense.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 11, 2019, 10:34:38 AM
So you want the same people to hire someone else. Makes perfect sense.
They will until the team is sold, so....
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 10:50:29 AM
So you want the same people to hire someone else. Makes perfect sense.If you've been paying attention, I think that MB has been very clear that that isn't what he wants.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 11:01:43 AM
So you want the same people to hire someone else. Makes perfect sense.
So you're proposing we keep the trash that consistenly lose games rather than taking a chance on the unknown. Got it. That really paid dividends with Rex and Bowles.
Friendly reminder: Gase isn't a rookie HC. He doesn't get the 1 or 2 season mulligan.
If you've been paying attention, I think that MB has been very clear that that isn't what he wants.
i could stamp it on his forehead and he'd still wouldn't get it.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 01:07:51 PM
If you've been paying attention, I think that MB has been very clear that that isn't what he wants.
So you guys are just completely outside the realm of reality, because they're not selling the team, either. That's where our disconnect is, I look at actual reality and hope for the best within those confines.
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 01:12:14 PM
So you guys are just completely outside the realm of reality, because they're not selling the team, either. That's where our disconnect is, I look at actual reality and hope for the best within those confines.No. Stop guessing and start paying attention, it will help to prevent you from looking stupid. Ask the question you should be asking.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
No. Stop guessing and start paying attention, it will help to prevent you from looking stupid. Ask the question you should be asking.
I don't know what you're talking about and I have no real interest in this argument because we already know they're not firing the coach. So you guys can scream and yell about it all you want, blame everything that happens on him, he's back next year. Sorry, I don't own the team either.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 01:46:15 PM
I don't know what you're talking about and I have no real interest in this argument because we already know they're not firing the coach. So you guys can scream and yell about it all you want, blame everything that happens on him, he's back next year. Sorry, I don't own the team either.
We all know he's back next year. But you were advocating to keep him because this team lacks stability.
As far as 2020 goes, if he isn't winning games, he's gone. That's how the NFL works. If you're not winning, then it's only a matter of time. Rex produced in his first 2 years as HC, so he was rewarded with another contract, and then declined steadily over his last 4 years. Coaches in any professional sport will tell you, they get hired to get fired.
You guys keep using Tomlin as a model of stability. Guess what...he freaking wins. That's why he's still there.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 02:06:28 PM
We all know he's back next year. But you were advocating to keep him because this team lacks stability.
As far as 2020 goes, if he isn't winning games, he's gone. That's how the NFL works. If you're not winning, then it's only a matter of time. Rex produced in his first 2 years as HC, so he was rewarded with another contract, and then declined steadily over his last 4 years. Coaches in any professional sport will tell you, they get hired to get fired.
You guys keep using Tomlin as a model of stability. Guess what...he freaking wins. That's why he's still there.
You keep bringing up Tomlin, we're trying to tell you why he can win when they lose players. Because they've had two coaches in 30 years, three in 50 years, everyone fits and knows the system. We can only accomplish that here if we don't replace the coach every time the natives get restless, like the first half of the first season when you lose your top two QBs.
If you know Gase is back next year, which is what we've been told specifically, what are the pages of "fire him now" arguments going to do? In my opinion the chances of the team doing better with Darnold having a second year in the same system are greater than the chances the Johnsons go out this winter and making the perfect hire. So to me the right move is go with this for right now, more about Darnold than Gase. It wouldn't be the first time a QB has made a coach look better than he is. If he does have to learn another new offense, again, we'll probably struggle early--again--next year and you guys will all want that coach fired.
Regarding Rex, I get why he was fired but it's a whole different argument. Once a coach proves he can win I'm reluctant to just fire him for change sake, because the chances are very good you get someone worse. And that's exactly what happened.
Post by: ScotlandJet on December 11, 2019, 02:09:55 PM
So you guys are just completely outside the realm of reality, because they're not selling the team, either. That's where our disconnect is, I look at actual reality and hope for the best within those confines.
I'm with I.S as usual. When you reach a certain vintage in life you start to realize that your ambition of being around for winning the big one is vanishing sharply and you have to take what this awful franchise affords you. I'll still keep hoping.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 02:34:38 PM
You keep bringing up Tomlin, we're trying to tell you why he can win when they lose players. Because they've had two coaches in 30 years, three in 50 years, everyone fits and knows the system. We can only accomplish that here if we don't replace the coach every time the natives get restless, like the first half of the first season when you lose your top two QBs.
If you know Gase is back next year, which is what we've been told specifically, what are the pages of "fire him now" arguments going to do? In my opinion the chances of the team doing better with Darnold having a second year in the same system are greater than the chances the Johnsons go out this winter and making the perfect hire. So to me the right move is go with this for right now, more about Darnold than Gase. It wouldn't be the first time a QB has made a coach look better than he is. If he does have to learn another new offense, again, we'll probably struggle early--again--next year and you guys will all want that coach fired.
Regarding Rex, I get why he was fired but it's a whole different argument. Once a coach proves he can win I'm reluctant to just fire him for change sake, because the chances are very good you get someone worse. And that's exactly what happened.
lol
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 02:38:28 PM
I don't know what you're talking about
Clearly. Which is why I said you should ask MB what he thinks the correct approach is (one that he, I and many others have advocated many times, and for longer than Gase's short and miserable tenure) rather than making excrement up and looking stupid.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 02:42:24 PM
Clearly. Which is why I said you should ask MB what he thinks the correct approach is (one that he, I and many others have advocated many times, and for longer than Gase's short and miserable tenure) rather than making excrement up and looking stupid.
You're assuming I care what you and him think.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 02:47:26 PM
You're assuming I care what you and him think.
Not everybody can handle the truth.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 03:09:32 PM
Not everybody can handle the truth.
Like the owner and coach are staying?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 03:18:30 PM
I'm with I.S as usual. When you reach a certain vintage in life you start to realize that your ambition of being around for winning the big one is vanishing sharply and you have to take what this awful franchise affords you. I'll still keep hoping.
I mean there are times when it's obvious that changes need to be made, other times when it could go either way, and times where you just made the changes and have to stick by them to see how it works. To me we are clearly in the latter, I don't see any way we aren't.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 03:38:53 PM
Like the owner and coach are staying?
Nobody said the owner was going anywhere, not sure why you keep bringing that up....I’ll chalk it up to you being illiterate.
The coach is on borrowed time...if not this offseason, definitely next year.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 11, 2019, 03:39:29 PM
I mean there are times when it's obvious that changes need to be made, other times when it could go either way, and times where you just made the changes and have to stick by them to see how it works. To me we are clearly in the latter, I don't see any way we aren't.
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?
The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.
I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 03:51:21 PM
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?
The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.
I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.
You might end up being right eventually, I don't know, but the majority of what you seem angry about is what you think is going to happen next year. If you have a healthy Darnold in Week 1 with the command of the offense he has now, and had at the end of last year, we're probably going to be in contention. Gase doesn't have to be a genius, we've seen a good QB like Chad Pennington get the likes of Herm, Mangini and Sprano to the playoffs. I mentioned Belichick's 5-11 in 2000, they were 0-2 the next year before we knocked Bledsoe out and Brady came in. It's a QB-centric league, while I appreciate the concern for keeping Adams and Bell, and we should, job #1 is maximizing the QB we were lucky to get.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2019, 03:53:12 PM
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.
The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.
I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.
If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.
There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 03:57:39 PM
You're seeing ghosts.
LOL that's cold.
Quote
I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.
Also a good point. Some people here (MBGreen) have a little trouble distinguishing a coach from a GM. He was hired in June, hasn't even had a go at it yet.
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 04:05:36 PM
There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.
You're missing a fundamental point here - in fact, the same one that Seafood has been.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 04:06:24 PM
Also a good point. Some people here (MBGreen) have a little trouble distinguishing a coach from a GM. He was hired in June, hasn't even had a go at it yet.
I'm not asking for Joe Douglas to be fired.
Your problem is you can't accept the fact a coach has input on the roster. Rex had plenty of influence on the roster when he was here (at the draft, in free agency, etc etc). He didn't sit idly on his thumb while the GM made all the roster decisions. They work together. That's probably where the gap is between your reality and everyone else's.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 04:08:05 PM
You're missing a fundamental point here - in fact, the same one that Seafood has been.
So are you going to enlighten us with this higher wisdom that only you and MBGreen are aware of? Or are you just playing 4D chess while us dummies are down here thinking the Johnsons own the team and hired a coach we didn't want?
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 04:12:26 PM
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?
The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.
I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.
This is why it's infuriating. The longer we hang onto Gase, the longer it will take to undo all his excrement. Look at what Miami is going through, that'll be us after we fire that clown.
Seafood thinks i want to fire coaches because it's a hobby of mine or something. I'm tired of losing. Gase brought the same tendencies he had in Miami to NY. He's not the answer, and he still won't be the answer when the roster is healthy. Hell, it sounds like he wants to get rid of Jamal and Leveon too....hasn't Seafood been slamming his hand on the table saying the team should be surrounding Darnold with better players?
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 11, 2019, 04:17:25 PM
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.
If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.
There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.
And you keep ignoring that he's already done the same things we're worried he's going to do again. Hell, he's already thrown fits about personnel since he's been here.
I don't want to wind up pissed off because I have to watch Jamal Adams be an elite safety for the next 8 years in Dallas. I don't want to be pissed off because Le'Veon Bell is lighting up the stat sheet back in Pittsburgh. I want those guys here, helping the Jets.
Gase has so far shown us he's not at all unlike the stories that came out--and continue to come out--of Miami. He's petulant, vindictive, puts together poor game plans, refuses to adjust or use players properly, points fingers and throws people under the bus. If you "don't think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season" then I don't see any way to convince you, but I think you're completely wrong.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 11, 2019, 04:18:42 PM
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.
If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.
There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.
A-freaking-men.
Couldn't say it better myself. This is the same thing I've tried to argue for a few weeks now, but it's hard to get through all the "FIRE GASE" screaming it seems.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 04:20:11 PM
And you keep ignoring that he's already done the same things we're worried he's going to do again. Hell, he's already thrown fits about personnel since he's been here.
I don't want to wind up pissed off because I have to watch Jamal Adams be an elite safety for the next 8 years in Dallas. I don't want to be pissed off because Le'Veon Bell is lighting up the stat sheet back in Pittsburgh. I want those guys here, helping the Jets.
Gase has so far shown us he's not at all unlike the stories that came out--and continue to come out--of Miami. He's petulant, vindictive, puts together poor game plans, refuses to adjust or use players properly, points fingers and throws people under the bus. If you "don't think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season" then I don't see any way to convince you, but I think you're completely wrong.
Bang on.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 11, 2019, 04:21:01 PM
This is why it's infuriating. The longer we hang onto Gase, the longer it will take to undo all his excrement. Look at what Miami is going through, that'll be us after we fire that clown.
Seafood thinks i want to fire coaches because it's a hobby of mine or something. I'm tired of losing. Gase brought the same tendencies he had in Miami to NY. He's not the answer, and he still won't be the answer when the roster is healthy. Hell, it sounds like he wants to get rid of Jamal and Leveon too....hasn't Seafood been slamming his hand on the table saying the team should be surrounding Darnold with better players?
Exactly.
As I said, I'll be angry enough to set things on fire if Gase gets his way and runs Jamal and Le'Veon out of town. Either way, he'll be gone 3 years from now. Those two should still be here for the next regime.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 04:28:59 PM
This is why it's infuriating. The longer we hang onto Gase, the longer it will take to undo all his excrement. Look at what Miami is going through, that'll be us after we fire that clown.
Seafood thinks i want to fire coaches because it's a hobby of mine or something. I'm tired of losing. Gase brought the same tendencies he had in Miami to NY. He's not the answer, and he still won't be the answer when the roster is healthy. Hell, it sounds like he wants to get rid of Jamal and Leveon too....hasn't Seafood been slamming his hand on the table saying the team should be surrounding Darnold with better players?
I'm in favor of keeping our good players, including Bell and Adams, yes. Unless Gase actually gets rid of one or both I'm not conflating one subject with the other. Again Douglas is the GM, not Gase.
We're all tired of losing. As I told you an hour ago, I like the chances of Darnold succeeding with a familiar offense more than I like the chances of the Johnsons suddenly hiring a better coach. Nobody was thrilled with getting Gase but we're here now, and to me the better way forward is making the most of a young franchise QB, rather than gambling on yet another Johnson hire.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 04:41:47 PM
I'm in favor of keeping our good players, including Bell and Adams, yes. Unless Gase actually gets rid of one or both I'm not conflating one subject with the other. Again Douglas is the GM, not Gase.
We're all tired of losing. As I told you an hour ago, I like the chances of Darnold succeeding with a familiar offense more than I like the chances of the Johnsons suddenly hiring a better coach. Nobody was thrilled with getting Gase but we're here now, and to me the better way forward is making the most of a young franchise QB, rather than gambling on yet another Johnson hire.
Dude...the GM and HC freaking work together. What the freak?!
Do you think Gase is completely oblivious and kept out of the room when Douglas or Duff were making roster decisions? You do realize there are some coaches in the league that have full autonomy over the roster, right? There isn't an imaginary line drawn between the 2. They work as a team on roster decisions.
As far as keeping Gase...what have you seen from Gase that tells you he's the perfect candidate for this job?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 04:54:25 PM
Dude...the GM and HC freaking work together. What the freak?!
Do you think Gase is completely oblivious and kept out of the room when Douglas or Duff were making roster decisions? You do realize there are some coaches in the league that have full autonomy over the roster, right? There isn't an imaginary line drawn between the 2. They work as a team on roster decisions.
As far as keeping Gase...what have you seen from Gase that tells you he's the perfect candidate for this job?
When did I say he's the perfect candidate for the job? I said he's here now and Darnold is in this offense, so it may do more harm than good to change it again. Especially since there is no guarantee we'd even be changing it for the better,
The GM/coach dynamic varies from team to team and is especially odd on our team. You seem to like to pick and choose who to credit and blame based on who you don't like and what argument you want to make at the moment.
Post by: MBGreen on December 11, 2019, 05:04:15 PM
When did I say he's the perfect candidate for the job? I said he's here now and Darnold is in this offense, so it may do more harm than good to change it again. Especially since there is no guarantee we'd even be changing it for the better
I agree that we shouldn't be changing the offense often because it's not ideal for Darnold's development. But see, in this situation, Gase is a POS. So, you believe keeping that around for a longer period of time is beneficial to him? Let's go with "known trash"...that's your answer to developing our franchise QB. Rather than risking another year to find a better fit for this team and preventing another season or 2 of cleaning up his roster mess.
Imagine being this ignorant.
Quote
You seem to like to pick and choose who to credit and blame based on who you don't like and what argument you want to make at the moment.
False
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 05:16:46 PM
I agree that we shouldn't be changing the offense often because it's not ideal for Darnold's development. But see, in this situation, Gase is a POS. So, you believe keeping that around for a longer period of time is beneficial to him? Let's go with "known trash"...that's your answer to developing our franchise QB. Rather than risking another year to find a better fit for this team and preventing another season or 2 of cleaning up his roster mess.
Imagine being this ignorant.
False
That's exactly what you do. You claim (as recently as today) that Rex won with Mangini's team, completely overlooking that Tannenbaum was the GM for both. You act like Rex suddenly forgot how to coach when Idzik replaced Tannenbaum, traded his best player and sent the roster spiraling downhill. Now you're worried about Gase getting rid of players when Douglas is the GM.
Regarding Gase, you're basing everything on your opinion and your predictions. Fact is he just got here, we're 5-8 with a questionable and banged up roster, and he took Miami to their only playoff game in over a decade. That's what we know for sure, what happens from here we don't know. Who is it you are so certain wants to come to a team that fires the coach after one season? And you know we can get him? What offense will be Darnold's third in three years?
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 07:09:51 PM
So are you going to enlighten us with this higher wisdom that only you and MBGreen are aware of? Or are you just playing 4D chess while us dummies are down here thinking the Johnsons own the team and hired a coach we didn't want?
No, it's literally the conversation we've had multiple times on here but apparently you're not paying attention.
The structure is fucked. Douglas won't fire Gase because he can't, it's not his job. GM and coach both report to the owner, who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the sole. While people who don't understand football keep making the most important football decisions, this club is fucked.
You banging on about how we would entrust people who we believe have made repeated bad decisions to make the next one is just plain freaking ignorant, because it has been discussed enough times on here. We're not just whining about replacing the excrement coach that the idiot owner hired with another excrement coach that the idiot owner likes, we're asking for structural reform of the team so that it can be run like pretty much every other team that isn't run by a proper football man. Please try and make the effort to keep up because it isn't difficult.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2019, 07:28:50 PM
The structure is fucked. Douglas won't fire Gase because he can't, it's not his job. GM and coach both report to the owner, who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the sole. While people who don't understand football keep making the most important football decisions, this club is fucked.Douglas has a long contract. He has power. If he wanted Gase out, he could probably make that appeal to ownership. We have no idea if Douglas wants to fire Gase. By all indications, Douglas wants to work with Gase.
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 07:37:27 PM
Douglas has a long contract. He has power. If he wanted Gase out, he could probably make that appeal to ownership. We have no idea if Douglas wants to fire Gase. By all indications, Douglas wants to work with Gase.
Sure. I'm not arguing the case for what I think will happen, I'm arguing the case for what I think needs to happen if we're going to have any chance of seeing success. I'm aware that Gase will likely be here next year, but I'm not prepared to be remotely happy about or accepting of it, and I'm going to continue squealing about why it's a really terrible idea and why he isn't and has never been head coach material. I might even contribute to the next plane.
Adam Gase is an absolute fraud of a head coach.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 11, 2019, 07:56:23 PM
If you come home and someone is squatting on your doorstep with their pants around their ankles looking like they're straining, do you just hang out and wait to see what happens?
The problem people like MB, JE, and myself have is that what we see from Gase is detremental to the team. Meaning, allowing him another year running this team will cause far more harm than any "stability" could be worth.
I'm going to be angry enough to set things on fire if Bell and Adams are traded this offseason. Like you always say, keep your good players and build off of them, don't trade them. But that's exactly what it looks like Gase is going to force to happen--because he doesn't "value" them enough.
I can't believe I was left out
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 11, 2019, 08:01:59 PM
You continue to deny it, but this is another example of people blaming Gase for excrement that hasnt happened.
If we trade Adams because Gase doesnt like him, then I will blame Gase for that and be livid barring a ridiculous return. If we trade Bell, who cares. But neither has happened yet your argument for Gase being detrimental to the team has to do with things that haven't happened. You're seeing ghosts.
There are plenty of points to make why Gase hasnt done a great job. I dont think any are bad enough to fire a coach after one season but I'll let Douglas make that choice. If he decides to fire him, I will support that. If he decides to keep him, I'll probably support that too.
So you're settling for a head coach that's bad, but not THAT bad. In all seriousness, tell me ONE thing Gase has done to show you he's the right person for the job.
Also, Gase reports to the owner, so it's on Johnson fire him.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 11, 2019, 08:18:01 PM
No, it's literally the conversation we've had multiple times on here but apparently you're not paying attention.
The structure is fucked. Douglas won't fire Gase because he can't, it's not his job. GM and coach both report to the owner, who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the sole. While people who don't understand football keep making the most important football decisions, this club is fucked.
You banging on about how we would entrust people who we believe have made repeated bad decisions to make the next one is just plain freaking ignorant, because it has been discussed enough times on here. We're not just whining about replacing the excrement coach that the idiot owner hired with another excrement coach that the idiot owner likes, we're asking for structural reform of the team so that it can be run like pretty much every other team that isn't run by a proper football man. Please try and make the effort to keep up because it isn't difficult.
Ok, we have discussed this, I just alluded to it talking to MBGreen.
Guess what? That's not going to change either. Again, sorry. Reality is a real lover of the older lady.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2019, 08:34:40 PM
So you're settling for a head coach that's bad, but not THAT bad. In all seriousness, tell me ONE thing Gase has done to show you he's the right person for the job.I don't know if he's bad, but Darnold has 11 total TD and 2 Int in his last 5 games. The franchise is based on Sam Darnold. That's all anyone said this offseason. So are you happy with Gase's development? It's been somewhat of a mixed bag, but I think it's been more positive than negative.
Also, Gase reports to the owner, so it's on Johnson fire him.
He's shown he can draw up opening drives that can score on a relatively consistent basis, after being the worst opening drive team in the NFL for years.
The team competed in pretty much every game despite massive injuries seemingly every week. The team has not quit on Gase.
People thought he and Gregg Williams were going to clash, but they haven't, and the defense has been surprisingly good given the injuries. Most of that goes to Williams, but Gase is the head coach, so he gets some credit and some blame for the whole team.
But really, it all comes down to Darnold. Darnold seems to love Gase. That's not enough reason to keep Gase around, but if we're happy with Darnold's development, we should keep Gase and let him develop in a system. Drafting a QB and giving him 3 different systems in 3 seasons is a poor idea. Especially since I'm sure a segment on this board will quit on whoever we hire next season by November, which is about 9 months longer than the leash many of you gave Gase.
What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.
Post by: Jumbo on December 11, 2019, 08:43:01 PM
But really, it all comes down to Darnold. Darnold seems to love Gase.
Who even knows if that's true - the QB is essentially obligated to say they like the HC
Post by: Johnny English on December 11, 2019, 09:05:59 PM
So are you happy with Gase's development? It's been somewhat of a mixed bag, but I think it's been more positive than negative.
Holy excrement, are we watching the same games?
He's shown he can draw up opening drives that can score on a relatively consistent basis, after being the worst opening drive team in the NFL for years.
So? This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. No one is disputing his ability to watch video and draw up plays, he just has no idea how to call them at the right time. Again, he is a passing game co-ordinator and not a head coach or an OC.
The team competed in pretty much every game despite massive injuries seemingly every week. The team has not quit on Gase.
Really? Tell me more about how we competed against Philly or Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm not even mentioning the Patriots because, well, we've pretty much given up any hope of competing with them, haven't we? So, yay us for fighting hard against the 0-7 Dolphins and the the 0-11 Bengals, even if we did come up short against them. Great job Adam.
What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.
You mean apart from demonstrating that he's completely incapable of calling plays to respond to the defense that's on the field, and that he doesn't understand how to adapt his playbook to the players he has rather than building a playbook that takes advantage of the roster he has?
Are you seriously saying that you're OK with the club building a roster around a head coach who has failed at every senior coaching level when it has been on him to make it happen?
History is going to show Gase to be a complete fraud. He was Peyton's video and clipboard guy, then Chicago's failed OC, then Miami's failed HC, and now it's just magically going to all work out? He is the least qualified head coach in the NFL. 31 teams are laughing at us and you're defending him out of desperate hope that it will somehow work out.
Let me turn this around. What makes you think this is going to work?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 11, 2019, 10:03:50 PM
Holy excrement, are we watching the same games?See, you make a few good points, and then you go to the same hyperbolic excrement that everyone else on the anti-Gase train can't wait to use.
So? This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. No one is disputing his ability to watch video and draw up plays, he just has no idea how to call them at the right time. Again, he is a passing game co-ordinator and not a head coach or an OC.
Really? Tell me more about how we competed against Philly or Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm not even mentioning the Patriots because, well, we've pretty much given up any hope of competing with them, haven't we? So, yay us for fighting hard against the 0-7 Dolphins and the the 0-11 Bengals, even if we did come up short against them. Great job Adam.
You mean apart from demonstrating that he's completely incapable of calling plays to respond to the defense that's on the field, and that he doesn't understand how to adapt his playbook to the players he has rather than building a playbook that takes advantage of the roster he has?
Are you seriously saying that you're OK with the club building a roster around a head coach who has failed at every senior coaching level when it has been on him to make it happen?
History is going to show Gase to be a complete fraud. He was Peyton's video and clipboard guy, then Chicago's failed OC, then Miami's failed HC, and now it's just magically going to all work out? He is the least qualified head coach in the NFL. 31 teams are laughing at us and you're defending him out of desperate hope that it will somehow work out.
Let me turn this around. What makes you think this is going to work?
The dude has made a playoff appearance in the NFL and coached one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history during his greatest season. Calling him the least qualified coach in the NFL is just stupid, and it makes it hard to take the rest of the post that seriously.
Obviously, he hasn't done a great job. I've said a lot that I don't hate the idea of firing him. But do you really think that we would be better than 5-8 with Matt Rhule or whoever you would have wanted? Probably not. This team has fatal issues that would make pretty much any head coach look bad.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 11, 2019, 11:15:46 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on December 12, 2019, 01:18:43 AM
Sure. I'm not arguing the case for what I think will happen, I'm arguing the case for what I think needs to happen if we're going to have any chance of seeing success. I'm aware that Gase will likely be here next year, but I'm not prepared to be remotely happy about or accepting of it, and I'm going to continue squealing about why it's a really terrible idea and why he isn't and has never been head coach material. I might even contribute to the next plane.
Adam Gase is an absolute fraud of a head coach.
Two thumbs up for this and the power structure post, bang on!
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 09:01:45 AM
Holy excrement, are we watching the same games?
So? This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. No one is disputing his ability to watch video and draw up plays, he just has no idea how to call them at the right time. Again, he is a passing game co-ordinator and not a head coach or an OC.
Really? Tell me more about how we competed against Philly or Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm not even mentioning the Patriots because, well, we've pretty much given up any hope of competing with them, haven't we? So, yay us for fighting hard against the 0-7 Dolphins and the the 0-11 Bengals, even if we did come up short against them. Great job Adam.
You mean apart from demonstrating that he's completely incapable of calling plays to respond to the defense that's on the field, and that he doesn't understand how to adapt his playbook to the players he has rather than building a playbook that takes advantage of the roster he has?
Are you seriously saying that you're OK with the club building a roster around a head coach who has failed at every senior coaching level when it has been on him to make it happen?
History is going to show Gase to be a complete fraud. He was Peyton's video and clipboard guy, then Chicago's failed OC, then Miami's failed HC, and now it's just magically going to all work out? He is the least qualified head coach in the NFL. 31 teams are laughing at us and you're defending him out of desperate hope that it will somehow work out.
Let me turn this around. What makes you think this is going to work?
Well said and 100% accurate
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2019, 10:26:16 AM
I can't believe I was left out
Very unintentional oversight, friend. I promise that when MB, JE, and AtF light the torches to lead the charge, LJF will be assured a spot in front with us. I believe SFD and Puck might need reservations as well.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2019, 10:49:33 AM
What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.
- Chose not to use the highly paid elite RB on the roster against the winless team that couldn't stop the run at any point prior to that game.
- Didn't run the ball outside even when he did choose to run, despite it being the weakest part of that defense.
- Publicly posted a shaming fine against a guy whose career is probably over for not showing up for a rehab.
- Has blamed lack of execution in his postgame press conferences after every loss, and has only "taken blame" for bad playcalling after wins.
- Snaked his way into getting the GM fired that had input into his hiring. After throwing a childish fit during and immediately after the draft.
- Spoke out about not wanting to have paid Le'Veon Bell or CJ Mosley what Maccagnan did.
- Shows no adjustments to game plans no matter how they're (not) working.
- Has been seen at times sitting on the bench alone during games looking at his playsheets--is this what a head coach is supposed to do?
- Doesn't throw his own challenge flag because "he's busy doing other things," like not managing the game.
- Let's not forget that he supposedly didn't even know what was happening when Brian Winters allowed a safety then yelled at Darnold, then threw a fit on the sideline.
Those are just some things off the top of my head. And they don't include anything that hasn't happened this season so you can't even counter with an argument about what may or may not have happened in Miami previously, of which there are loads of issues--and really gets to the core of why many of us won't give him so much as an inch.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 12, 2019, 11:14:36 AM
- Chose not to use the highly paid elite RB on the roster against the winless team that couldn't stop the run at any point prior to that game.
- Didn't run the ball outside even when he did choose to run, despite it being the weakest part of that defense.
- Publicly posted a shaming fine against a guy whose career is probably over for not showing up for a rehab.
- Has blamed lack of execution in his postgame press conferences after every loss, and has only "taken blame" for bad playcalling after wins.
- Snaked his way into getting the GM fired that had input into his hiring. After throwing a childish fit during and immediately after the draft.
- Spoke out about not wanting to have paid Le'Veon Bell or CJ Mosley what Maccagnan did.
- Shows no adjustments to game plans no matter how they're (not) working.
- Has been seen at times sitting on the bench alone during games looking at his playsheets--is this what a head coach is supposed to do?
- Doesn't throw his own challenge flag because "he's busy doing other things," like not managing the game.
- Let's not forget that he supposedly didn't even know what was happening when Brian Winters allowed a safety then yelled at Darnold, then threw a fit on the sideline.
Those are just some things off the top of my head. And they don't include anything that hasn't happened this season so you can't even counter with an argument about what may or may not have happened in Miami previously, of which there are loads of issues--and really gets to the core of why many of us won't give him so much as an inch.
1- Agreed. Completely fair and factual criticism.
2- See #1.
3- The posting of the fines in the team facility is a bad look, Enunwa is also 100% wrong.
4- Overblown by Manish who's clearly operating with an agenda likely because he's not getting the access he previously enjoyed. Meh. I've heard him blame himself plenty after losses.
5- The best thing he's done here IMHO aside from having Sam play on a clear upward trajectory since the Jaguars game. Mac sucked.
6- I don't think he's ever said that.
7- Fair considering the second half performances for the most part, and I think especially reared its head after the Darnold INT last Sunday.
8- Yeah, Andy Reid does it most of the time he's not talking to his quarterback.
9- C'mon, really.
10- I don't recall so I can't comment on it except to say freak Brian Winters.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 12, 2019, 11:22:47 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on December 12, 2019, 12:07:37 PM
Can't wait for that season when nothing goes wrong.
Remember that time when you said something about Red Herrings and I asked if you knew what one actually was? Read your post as an example.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 12:12:01 PM
Can't wait for that season when nothing goes wrong.
Are you enjoying this season, the one where everything has gone wrong?
Post by: Miamipuck on December 12, 2019, 12:15:07 PM
Those are just some things off the top of my head. And they don't include anything that hasn't happened this season so you can't even counter with an argument about what may or may not have happened in Miami previously, of which there are loads of issues--and really gets to the core of why many of us won't give him so much as an inch.
- Chose not to use the highly paid elite RB on the roster against the winless team that couldn't stop the run at any point prior to that game.
- Didn't run the ball outside even when he did choose to run, despite it being the weakest part of that defense.
- Publicly posted a shaming fine against a guy whose career is probably over for not showing up for a rehab.
- Has blamed lack of execution in his postgame press conferences after every loss, and has only "taken blame" for bad playcalling after wins.
- Snaked his way into getting the GM fired that had input into his hiring. After throwing a childish fit during and immediately after the draft.
- Spoke out about not wanting to have paid Le'Veon Bell or CJ Mosley what Maccagnan did.
- Shows no adjustments to game plans no matter how they're (not) working.
- Has been seen at times sitting on the bench alone during games looking at his playsheets--is this what a head coach is supposed to do?
- Doesn't throw his own challenge flag because "he's busy doing other things," like not managing the game.
- Let's not forget that he supposedly didn't even know what was happening when Brian Winters allowed a safety then yelled at Darnold, then threw a fit on the sideline.
I will allow that what annoys me about Gase is contained in many of the examples above, some of the things I don't think deserve to be held against him. I don't know if he did or didn't know about Winters on the sideline but I do know that try asking Belichick that same question. He would say something snarky and you couldn't tell whether he knew or didn't. I know as a coach I wouldn't admit excrement and then handle it in house. Sitting on the sidelines himself, I don't know, there's so much substance from other crap that who really cares about this.
What a coach says in public is nonsnese. If he says lack of execution, he could be privately beating himself with a belt buckle (one could hope) over his lack of adjustments and always trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Going by his actions, I think he really believes he's the smartest guy in the room. That's ultimately going to be his downfall.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 12:48:02 PM
I don't know if he's bad, but Darnold has 11 total TD and 2 Int in his last 5 games. The franchise is based on Sam Darnold. That's all anyone said this offseason. So are you happy with Gase's development? It's been somewhat of a mixed bag, but I think it's been more positive than negative.
He's shown he can draw up opening drives that can score on a relatively consistent basis, after being the worst opening drive team in the NFL for years.
The team competed in pretty much every game despite massive injuries seemingly every week. The team has not quit on Gase.
People thought he and Gregg Williams were going to clash, but they haven't, and the defense has been surprisingly good given the injuries. Most of that goes to Williams, but Gase is the head coach, so he gets some credit and some blame for the whole team.
But really, it all comes down to Darnold. Darnold seems to love Gase. That's not enough reason to keep Gase around, but if we're happy with Darnold's development, we should keep Gase and let him develop in a system. Drafting a QB and giving him 3 different systems in 3 seasons is a poor idea. Especially since I'm sure a segment on this board will quit on whoever we hire next season by November, which is about 9 months longer than the leash many of you gave Gase.
What has Gase done that is so awful that we need to fire him after one season? And please limit it to things that have actually happened.
Hell no. I don't think Sam has grown/improved under Gase. His production this year is very similar to what he did in those final four games, so how did Gase help?
If we same a material difference in Sam's play and the offense was rolling & playing consistently, and we were still 5-8, I think many of us would be singing a different tune. But we're not.
And please don't mention the OL or injuries...Williams is doing a great job on D with dudes who are flipping burgers next year starting at multiple positions.
This dude thinks and acts like he's Belichick, as if he's the smartest guy in the room and he is the farthest thing from it. He's been marginally pedestrian at all of his senior level coaching positions and he needs to GTFO
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 12, 2019, 01:10:40 PM
Are you enjoying this season, the one where everything has gone wrong?
Come on, not everything has gone wrong. After last season we made a prediction thread and most of us were looking at a 6-10, 7-9 season. We seem to be in pace for that. And that's the whole thing. It's difficult to take these arguments seriously when many times what you guys do is to overdramatize EVERY situation. There's a lot of excrement, there's some good things too. Gase sucks, he's not Kotite. There's shades of gray.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 01:14:29 PM
Come on, not everything has gone wrong. After last season we made a prediction thread and most of us were looking at a 6-10, 7-9 season. We seem to be in pace for that. And that's the whole thing. It's difficult to take these arguments seriously when many times what you guys do is to overdramatize EVERY situation. There's a lot of excrement, there's some good things too. Gase sucks, he's not Kotite. There's shades of gray.
we're all gonna die too.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 12, 2019, 01:44:10 PM
Come on, not everything has gone wrong. After last season we made a prediction thread and most of us were looking at a 6-10, 7-9 season. We seem to be in pace for that. And that's the whole thing. It's difficult to take these arguments seriously when many times what you guys do is to overdramatize EVERY situation. There's a lot of excrement, there's some good things too. Gase sucks, he's not Kotite. There's shades of gray.
This sums it up. People talk about the big picture in the abstract--draft a QB, let him develop over a couple years, etc. But when it comes to actually doing that, which means some bad games, mediocre records, learning curve, some people don't have the stomach for it. Coach has to go, QB is "broken" or "ruined", "overdramatize" is the right word.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 12, 2019, 01:47:08 PM
This sums it up. People talk about the big picture in the abstract--draft a QB, let him develop over a couple years, etc. But when it comes to actually doing that, which means some bad games, mediocre records, learning curve, some people don't have the stomach for it. Coach has to go, QB is "broken" or "ruined", "overdramatize" is the right word.
No, everyone should hit the ground running like Mike Tomlin because the situations both coaches inherited are totally the same.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2019, 02:15:15 PM
1- Agreed. Completely fair and factual criticism.
2- See #1.
3- The posting of the fines in the team facility is a bad look, Enunwa is also 100% wrong.
4- Overblown by Manish who's clearly operating with an agenda likely because he's not getting the access he previously enjoyed. Meh. I've heard him blame himself plenty after losses.
5- The best thing he's done here IMHO aside from having Sam play on a clear upward trajectory since the Jaguars game. Mac sucked.
6- I don't think he's ever said that.
7- Fair considering the second half performances for the most part, and I think especially reared its head after the Darnold INT last Sunday.
8- Yeah, Andy Reid does it most of the time he's not talking to his quarterback.
9- C'mon, really.
10- I don't recall so I can't comment on it except to say freak Brian Winters.
So let's start with the fact that you agree there is some very valid criticism. Specifically in-game and gameplanning issues. Those are the core of his job, no? If he's bad at them, that's reason for him to be unemployed alone, no?
I'm not quoting anything from Manish. Other than some of his tweets, I haven't read a thing from Manish this year. I watch the postgame show with more interest than the games at this point. The things I say Gase says or does in them, I've witnessed with my own 2 eyes.
Was it good to get rid of Maccagnan? Ends-justify-the-means says yes. And I wanted him gone before anyone except SFD. But it's the snake-style garbage that I don't like. That's not a one-time thing from someone. That's who they are. Maccagnan signed off on Gase's hiring only to be stabbed in the back.
You don't think he's ever said he didn't want to give Bell and Mosley the money they got? I mean, Ian Rappaport isn't Manish: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001030898/article/adam-gase-disagreed-with-price-tag-for-bell-mosley (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001030898/article/adam-gase-disagreed-with-price-tag-for-bell-mosley)
My problem with things like sitting on the bench alone or having someone else in charge of the challenge flag are: the head coach should be directly involved in all 3 phases of the game. His job is to oversee the 3 units, not play with his own toys in the corner.
And agreed, freak Brian Winters. But again, a head coach needs to take care of garbage like that. Not put the guy right back in the game. And even if he didn't know what happened then, how did Winters get to start the next week as well?
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 12, 2019, 02:26:27 PM
we're all gonna die too.
Yeah, but not today
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2019, 02:34:06 PM
Come on, not everything has gone wrong. After last season we made a prediction thread and most of us were looking at a 6-10, 7-9 season. We seem to be in pace for that. And that's the whole thing. It's difficult to take these arguments seriously when many times what you guys do is to overdramatize EVERY situation. There's a lot of excrement, there's some good things too. Gase sucks, he's not Kotite. There's shades of gray.
This keeps being repeated, and so does the question: what exactly are those good things?
The pro-Gase side wants to say the fire-him side keep overdramatizing point after point why he's a bad coach, but at the same time won't step up and tell us what he's done that's good.
This sums it up. People talk about the big picture in the abstract--draft a QB, let him develop over a couple years, etc. But when it comes to actually doing that, which means some bad games, mediocre records, learning curve, some people don't have the stomach for it. Coach has to go, QB is "broken" or "ruined", "overdramatize" is the right word.
Big picture means seeing reason to believe. I believe in the talent of Sam Darnold. I do not believe in Adam Gase at all.
No, everyone should hit the ground running like Mike Tomlin because the situations both coaches inherited are totally the same.
Nobody is saying this.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 12, 2019, 02:45:35 PM
Big picture means seeing reason to believe. I believe in the talent of Sam Darnold. I do not believe in Adam Gase at all.
That's your right, it's early in the process. Once Darnold got healthy and comfortable in the offense it has been better, the opening drives I think tied a team record or broke it. We put up 34 points a few times in a row, there's been some positive signs. A lot of that is Darnold but some of it is the coaching staff too. The team stayed together at 1-7 and has been 4-1 since then, if you're going to assign blame for the bad at least recognize the good. We're 5-8 and people are acting like we're 2-11.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 03:58:19 PM
1- Agreed. Completely fair and factual criticism.Yep. As with most of the Gase criticisms, there is plenty of truth, but there is so much irrelevant garbage people blame Gase for that makes it hard to take the rest of the post seriously.
2- See #1.
3- The posting of the fines in the team facility is a bad look, Enunwa is also 100% wrong.
4- Overblown by Manish who's clearly operating with an agenda likely because he's not getting the access he previously enjoyed. Meh. I've heard him blame himself plenty after losses.
5- The best thing he's done here IMHO aside from having Sam play on a clear upward trajectory since the Jaguars game. Mac sucked.
6- I don't think he's ever said that.
7- Fair considering the second half performances for the most part, and I think especially reared its head after the Darnold INT last Sunday.
8- Yeah, Andy Reid does it most of the time he's not talking to his quarterback.
9- C'mon, really.
10- I don't recall so I can't comment on it except to say freak Brian Winters.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 04:24:52 PM
Yep. As with most of the Gase criticisms, there is plenty of truth, but there is so much irrelevant garbage people blame Gase for that makes it hard to take the rest of the post seriously.Well...with the criticisms, there’s a degree of frustration that comes along with that. So you can expect some hyperbole to get thrown in.
Some of us are tired of spinning our wheels, while some are content to accept shitty coaching as the status quo.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 12, 2019, 04:30:13 PM
Well...with the criticisms, there’s a degree of frustration that comes along with that. So you can expect some hyperbole to get thrown in.
Some of us are tired of spinning our wheels, while some are content to accept shitty coaching as the status quo.
You can't state your own case without mischaracterizing others. You gave up in Week 2, that's not our problem.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 04:39:08 PM
Well...with the criticisms, there’s a degree of frustration that comes along with that. So you can expect some hyperbole to get thrown in.I just think that a lot of it is overblown.
Some of us are tired of spinning our wheels, while some are content to accept shitty coaching as the status quo.
This team critically lacks talent in many areas. We played a 3rd-string QB for 3 games, our RB missed a game, our #2 WR barely played, we lost our #1 TE and later our #2 TE, our OL has been a revolving door all year, Quinnen has missed time, we traded Leonard, the LB corps has been a revolving door, the CBs have changed constantly, and even Jamal has now missed time. Entering this season, most of us agreed that this team had talent if they stayed healthy, and it just lacked depth. Then when this team needs to play all the depth, people think we're poorly coached. I don't think Bill Belichick would have a winning record with this team.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 12, 2019, 04:47:15 PM
I just think that a lot of it is overblown.
This team critically lacks talent in many areas. We played a 3rd-string QB for 3 games, our RB missed a game, our #2 WR barely played, we lost our #1 TE and later our #2 TE, our OL has been a revolving door all year, Quinnen has missed time, we traded Leonard, the LB corps has been a revolving door, the CBs have changed constantly, and even Jamal has now missed time. Entering this season, most of us agreed that this team had talent if they stayed healthy, and it just lacked depth. Then when this team needs to play all the depth, people think we're poorly coached. I don't think Bill Belichick would have a winning record with this team.
I don't think anyone disputes that.
What we are pissed about is HOW bad we have looked. In a season where 80% of the AFC is a complete dumpster fire, and there were more 2 wins and less teams ever by week 10, we were as bad as any of them. We made NFL HISTORY for futility in being the first team to EVER lose to multiple 0-7 or worse teams. We did that in part because we are talentless, but in part because the coaching is not good enough to win. There are times (opening drives) where this team looks prepared and pounces on teams. But as our opponents make adjustments we are simply spinning our gears and thats putting it mildly.
In addition, the number of times we have been completely embarrassed/non-competitive this season is very high. Both Patriots games, the Eagles, the Bengals (an 0-11 team), the Browns just off the top of my head. Thats 5 of our 8 losses we weren't even competitive in, and frankly I think one could argue a couple of our wins we didn't even realize deserve (Dolphins).
Thats why we are pissed, we have a creampuff back of the schedule and honestly can't even compete on a field with a terrible AFC. Gase isn't getting it done, and I don't want to watch him continue to freak up.
At what point has he had enough leash to warrant a change? 16 games? 18? 24? 32? 48? Because I want to know how long I need to wait before I can at least pretend to believe we have a shot to win for real.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 05:25:13 PM
You can't state your own case without mischaracterizing others. You gave up in Week 2, that's not our problem.I gave him a chance...he failed.
You’re still living in a fantasy that the Jets are in good hands. That takes some next-level ignorance to pull off.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 05:43:38 PM
I don't think anyone disputes that.Why are the Jets better than any of these other bad teams in the AFC? We were supposed to be a .500 team in Vegas - our over/under was 7.5 wins. And that was before our entire team got injured. And you talk about the creampuff back of the schedule - we went 4-2 in those games (and we were only favored in 3 of those games).
What we are pissed about is HOW bad we have looked. In a season where 80% of the AFC is a complete dumpster fire, and there were more 2 wins and less teams ever by week 10, we were as bad as any of them. We made NFL HISTORY for futility in being the first team to EVER lose to multiple 0-7 or worse teams. We did that in part because we are talentless, but in part because the coaching is not good enough to win. There are times (opening drives) where this team looks prepared and pounces on teams. But as our opponents make adjustments we are simply spinning our gears and thats putting it mildly.
In addition, the number of times we have been completely embarrassed/non-competitive this season is very high. Both Patriots games, the Eagles, the Bengals (an 0-11 team), the Browns just off the top of my head. Thats 5 of our 8 losses we weren't even competitive in, and frankly I think one could argue a couple of our wins we didn't even realize deserve (Dolphins).
Thats why we are pissed, we have a creampuff back of the schedule and honestly can't even compete on a field with a terrible AFC. Gase isn't getting it done, and I don't want to watch him continue to freak up.
At what point has he had enough leash to warrant a change? 16 games? 18? 24? 32? 48? Because I want to know how long I need to wait before I can at least pretend to believe we have a shot to win for real.
I don't understand how you agree the Jets are painfully injured, so much to the point that Bill Belichick wouldn't have a winning record with this team, but you still think Gase has done such a bad job going 5-8 that you think he must be fired after one season. People complain that we lost to the Bengals. Do you want to give back the Cowboys/Raiders wins? Not that either of those teams are worldbeaters, but both teams are still better than the Jets on paper. People complain that we struggle after good opening drives. Would it be better if we sucked on the opening drive and did better later in the game?
Jets fans are just frustrated we've sucked for a decade. I'm frustrated, too. And if Gase gets axed, I won't shed a tear. But fans are holding him to an unfair standard.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 05:45:09 PM
I gave him a chance...he failed.Glad you gave him a game.
Quote
You’re still living in a fantasy that the Jets are in good hands. That takes some next-level ignorance to pull off.It must be so easy to win arguments when you argue against ridiculous points that nobody is making.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 05:46:59 PM
Glad you gave him a game.I cut bait after the loss to philly
It must be so easy to win arguments when you argue against ridiculous points that nobody is making.
I win all the arguments. And you should probably read some of the crap IS has spewed on this board over the years before commenting....
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 05:48:19 PM
I cut bait after the loss to phillySorry, you gave him one game with an NFL quarterback. My bad.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 05:51:25 PM
Sorry, you gave him one game with an NFL quarterback. My bad.Oh right...Luke Falk was at fault. Where have we heard this excrement before?
Find a new narrative. This one was taken.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 05:54:30 PM
Oh right...Luke Falk was at fault. Where have we heard this excrement before?I guess you just can't argue with stupid. I shouldn't even try.
Find a new narrative. This one was taken.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 05:58:34 PM
I guess you just can't argue with stupid. I shouldn't even try.You had to resort to personal attacks, not sure you stood a chance anyway.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 06:09:52 PM
You had to resort to personal attacks, not sure you stood a chance anyway.Giving up on a coach after 4 games, 3 of which coming with a backup QB, is stupid. Not personal, just stating facts. I can't argue against stupid arguments when you're just going to double down on them.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 06:24:17 PM
Giving up on a coach after 4 games, 3 of which coming with a backup QB, is stupid. Not personal, just stating facts. I can't argue against stupid arguments when you're just going to double down on them.I’m not giving up on a coach after 4 games. His tenure in Miami is still fresh and quite relevant considering what we’ve seen from him thus far. For some reason, you guys are quick to dismiss this. It was prevalent when Rex went to Buffalo, it’s prevalent here whether you guys accept it or not. Our roster is getting destroyed with injuries, that was happening in Miami during his entire time there. Coincidence? Probably not. If you don’t believe me...compare the amount of players he had on the IR in Miami with the amount in NY.
So before you spout off about what’s factual and what isn’t....maybe take Gase’s entire body of work into account instead of cherry-picking this season . You know...since his time in Miami was ONLY last season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 06:29:36 PM
So before you spout off about what’s factual and what isn’t....maybe take Gase’s entire body of work into account instead of cherry-picking this season . You know...since his time in Miami was ONLY last season.Sorry that I'm "cherry-picking" this season. You know, the only season he has coached the Jets. Which is really all I care about.
You do have a point about the injuries. I think injuries are more luck than anything else, but clearly Gase has had awful injury luck. It isn't Gase's fault that Sam was sick for the first month of the season and that Tannehill tore his ACL in Miami. But there may be something to his coaching that lends to more injuries. I don't know that though.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 06:35:33 PM
Sorry that I'm "cherry-picking" this season. You know, the only season he has coached the Jets. Which is really all I care about.Sorry, the last 3 seasons count towards his body of work. He didn’t just magically change his coaching tendencies and personality because he walked thru the doors at florham park days after he left Miami. I know you want to believe he did...
You do have a point about the injuries. I think injuries are more luck than anything else, but clearly Gase has had awful injury luck. It isn't Gase's fault that Sam was sick for the first month of the season and that Tannehill tore his ACL in Miami. But there may be something to his coaching that lends to more injuries. I don't know that though.
Injury luck? C’mon dude...open your eyes.
Post by: Pope on December 12, 2019, 07:42:04 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 12, 2019, 07:49:10 PM
Why are the Jets better than any of these other bad teams in the AFC? We were supposed to be a .500 team in Vegas - our over/under was 7.5 wins. And that was before our entire team got injured. And you talk about the creampuff back of the schedule - we went 4-2 in those games (and we were only favored in 3 of those games).
I don't understand how you agree the Jets are painfully injured, so much to the point that Bill Belichick wouldn't have a winning record with this team, but you still think Gase has done such a bad job going 5-8 that you think he must be fired after one season. People complain that we lost to the Bengals. Do you want to give back the Cowboys/Raiders wins? Not that either of those teams are worldbeaters, but both teams are still better than the Jets on paper. People complain that we struggle after good opening drives. Would it be better if we sucked on the opening drive and did better later in the game?
Jets fans are just frustrated we've sucked for a decade. I'm frustrated, too. And if Gase gets axed, I won't shed a tear. But fans are holding him to an unfair standard.
It’s not that we have lost it is HOW we are losing. It’s not that we are getting beat in our areas of deficit (lack of LBs or CBS leading to us giving up 30 points a game), it’s that we are largely non competitive in games. While tonight isn’t over yet, would anyone be surprised for us to get our asses handed to us again tonight?
I’m fine losing, we lack talent and we lack quality schemes to get our guys open easily for Sam to throw to. But continuing to do the same thing (keeping a guy who has made so many mistakes and has either been incapable of using a top notch weapon in Bell, or (worse) intentionally misused Le’Veon Bell. These things show me he isn’t the right guy for the job of leading a franchise to a championship. As such that’s why I want him out, because I’m tired of losing and I don’t want to be the team that’s gone the longest without a postseason trip. We are getting dangerously close to that point.
If you still have faith in Gases ability that’s great. I don’t and I want to replace him sooner rather than later because I don’t want to waste any more time. I still want to know how long are you willing to wait to decide enough is enough (this can be a general idea for a new coach or Gase specific). Is it 20 games? 40? Zero playoff appearances in 4 seasons? What would it take for you to decide we need to move on?
I agree stability is a great thing. But stable with idiots on charge isn’t really helpful, it won’t get us out of the basement. I’d rather go back to the unknown than keep someone I have lost faith in
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 07:49:25 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 07:50:26 PM
Where the Gase supporters at?
Yeah, we really had a chance in this one.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 07:53:13 PM
Where the Gase supporters at?I’m with Heis on this one...our roster is decimated. Other HCs wouldn’t stand a chance either.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 12, 2019, 07:53:21 PM
Where the Gase supporters at?
This is exactly why no one sensible takes any of you serious.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 07:54:35 PM
Yeah, we really had a chance in this one.
I'm ok with losing...it's HOW you lose.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 07:56:12 PM
This is exactly why no one sensible takes any of you serious.
Yep you're thrilled with our offense is playing? Tell me more.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 07:58:06 PM
I'm ok with losing...it's HOW you lose.
what
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 08:02:30 PM
Yep you're thrilled with our offense is playing? Tell me more.
freak YOU
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 08:04:52 PM
This is exactly why no one sensible takes any of you serious.Settle down, skippy. You’re still wrong about Gase.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 08:12:01 PM
freak YOU
Lol. Woo! 7 points
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 08:13:21 PM
Lol. Woo! 7 points
Baltimore is arguably the best team in the NFL.
Not sure what you expect from this garbage roster every week, but man you have been a baby back bitch this season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 08:22:38 PM
Yep you're thrilled with our offense is playing? Tell me more.Yeah, I am so far. You're not?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 08:23:38 PM
Yeah, I am so far. You're not?I’m thrilled Sam is still alive and making a few plays.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 08:25:08 PM
This is exactly why no one sensible takes any of you serious.This. Hard to take a lot of you seriously when people shitpost like this. LJF is the worst among them.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 08:31:29 PM
This. Hard to take a lot of you seriously when people shitpost like this. LJF is the worst among them.Same goes for you clowns
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 08:32:36 PM
Same goes for you clownsAt least we aren't shitposting outside the game thread during the game. Not that you started this.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 08:35:41 PM
At least we aren't shitposting outside the game thread during the game. Not that you started this.You’ve been shitposting for weeks
Post by: klaximilian on December 12, 2019, 09:15:39 PM
You’ve been shitposting for weeks
As opposed to the better part of two decades?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 09:32:13 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:34:07 PM
Y'all keep falling in love with this HC that's put up 7 points with his guru-esque schemes. Good for youI appreciate how you made your early-game shitpost, went away when the Jets offense was actually playing well, then returned after a couple punts. Way to stick to the brand.
Post by: Pope on December 12, 2019, 09:34:51 PM
As opposed to the better part of two decades?Fuckin lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:38:03 PM
Fuckin lolI had a draft of "You've been shitposting for decades on multiple websites" but then I decided that I was sick of arguing with MB. Glad Klax picked up the slack.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 09:44:37 PM
I appreciate how you made your early-game shitpost, went away when the Jets offense was actually playing well, then returned after a couple punts. Way to stick to the brand.
It's been an hour... you still got a hard on for Gase?
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 09:45:20 PM
I had a draft of "You've been shitposting for decades on multiple websites" but then I decided that I was sick of arguing with MB. Glad Klax picked up the slack.You’re still losing the argument
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:46:11 PM
It's been an hour... you still got a hard on for Gase?As I've said 1,000 times, I don't care if they keep Gase or let go of Gase, but bitching and moaning 5 minutes into the game against the best team in the NFL on the road on a short week to complain about Gase is freaking stupid.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 09:47:00 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 12, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
If we're losing 42-31 and our offense had a pulse, I wouldn't be killing Gase. But 7 freaking points?! You guys are happy with this offensive output from this clown you deem a guru. GFYI was happy with the first half offense moving the ball.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:49:32 PM
If we're losing 42-31 and our offense had a pulse, I wouldn't be killing Gase. But 7 freaking points?! You guys are happy with this offensive output from this clown you deem a guru. GFYNo you wouldn't. You proved that tonight.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 09:52:42 PM
As I've said 1,000 times, I don't care if they keep Gase or let go of Gase, but bitching and moaning 5 minutes into the game against the best team in the NFL on the road on a short week to complain about Gase is freaking stupid.Your nose is growing
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 09:53:22 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 12, 2019, 09:53:44 PM
No you wouldn't. You proved that tonight.
Our special teams scored as many points as out offense.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:56:45 PM
You’re still losing the argumentI'm very happy with the company I've been keeping in this thread. Most of the people whose opinions I respect the most have either been rational, or stayed out of the way because it's not worth arguing over because it's like arguing with a brick wall.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 12, 2019, 09:56:54 PM
Your nose is growing
If you would pay any attention this is basically what every one except for mj is saying. The point isn't that people would be happy with Gase, but it's just freaking ridiculous to pin everything on him and scream bloody murder. Doesn't help your case at all also, when you tack up all the hyperbolic excrement you can muster.
But I'm done arguing about this. The point is, this place is not at all enjoyable when you pussies are screaming the same vitriolic excrement in every thread.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 09:58:21 PM
If you would pay any attention this is basically what every one except for mj is saying. The point isn't that people would be happy with Gase, but it's just freaking ridiculous to pin everything on him and scream bloody murder. Doesn't help your case at all also, when you tack up all the hyperbolic excrement you can muster.Agreed. I'm going to try to join you and Heismanberg and stay out of the way so the chicken littles can scream among themselves.
But I'm done arguing about this. The point is, this place is not at all enjoyable when you pussies are screaming the same vitriolic excrement in every thread.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 09:58:51 PM
I'm very happy with the company I've been keeping in this thread. Most of the people whose opinions I respect the most have either been rational, or stayed out of the way because it's not worth arguing over because it's like arguing with a brick wall.Nobody cares who you respect
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 10:02:53 PM
If you would pay any attention this is basically what every one except for mj is saying. The point isn't that people would be happy with Gase, but it's just freaking ridiculous to pin everything on him and scream bloody murder. Doesn't help your case at all also, when you tack up all the hyperbolic excrement you can muster.Just because you don’t like to hear it, doesn’t mean it’s not true. I’m also not here to convince you...I know the Gase hire was a mistake. It’s not really debatable.
But I'm done arguing about this. The point is, this place is not at all enjoyable when you pussies are screaming the same vitriolic excrement in every thread.
And all these Fire Gase posts are in the correct threads
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2019, 10:10:47 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2019, 10:14:04 PM
This all got dramatic.This is why you stick to the game thread until the game ends!
Post by: mj2sexay on December 12, 2019, 10:16:23 PM
If you would pay any attention this is basically what every one except for mj is saying. The point isn't that people would be happy with Gase, but it's just freaking ridiculous to pin everything on him and scream bloody murder. Doesn't help your case at all also, when you tack up all the hyperbolic excrement you can muster.
But I'm done arguing about this. The point is, this place is not at all enjoyable when you pussies are screaming the same vitriolic excrement in every thread.
But that's exactly what I've been saying!
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 12, 2019, 10:25:07 PM
This all got dramatic.
gase is making all you niggas gay
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2019, 10:28:15 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 10:30:14 PM
Don't blame me, I quit just after half time. I've lost interest in watching Gaseball, but I don't particularly have an issue with what I saw tonight. Baltimore are just a better team.I’m more pissed with losing to the RedWings
Post by: bojanglesman on December 12, 2019, 10:30:36 PM
Don't blame me, I quit just after half time. I've lost interest in watching Gaseball, but I don't particularly have an issue with what I saw tonight. Baltimore are just a better team.Yep. Darnold played well. All I care about from here out.
Post by: MBGreen on December 12, 2019, 10:33:57 PM
Yep. Darnold played well. All I care about from here out.You should care more about seeing Fubar 2
#priorities
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2019, 09:10:03 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 09:11:38 AM
This is what this team has done to us.
I was pretty salty last night.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 09:32:41 AM
gase is making all you niggas gay
rooster in their mouth makes them gay.
This thread is as dramatic as a, drag queen show.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2019, 09:32:58 AM
I was pretty salty last night.
I don't blame you. I'm still a little salty.
But overall, I'm apathetic. I just want Gase fired. Into the Sun.
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 09:35:50 AM
I don't blame you. I'm still a little salty.
But overall, I'm apathetic. I just want Gase fired. Into the Sun.
x2
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 13, 2019, 09:48:32 AM
I don't blame you. I'm still a little salty.
But overall, I'm apathetic. I just want Gase fired. Into the Sun.
x2
X3
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2019, 10:17:37 AM
I was pretty salty last night.
I was pretty drunk last night. Quit watching just after half time and went to drink with my wife and her friend instead. Far more enjoyable.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 10:21:05 AM
I was pretty drunk last night. Quit watching just after half time and went to drink with my wife and her friend instead. Far more enjoyable.
I did the same with my gal, it was far more enjoyable.
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 10:22:02 AM
I was pretty drunk last night. Quit watching just after half time and went to drink with my wife and her friend instead. Far more enjoyable.
I think we're at the point where if you said you were sober last night (or any night), that's where the real surprise and intrigue stems from.
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2019, 10:32:10 AM
I think we're at the point where if you said you were sober last night (or any night), that's where the real surprise and intrigue stems from.
I'm not the one who starts drinking at 10am.
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 10:44:04 AM
I'm not the one who starts drinking at 10am.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/y7kvOYLzas6Ag/giphy.gif)
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 10:44:28 AM
I'm not the one who starts drinking at 10am.
What's wrong with that?
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2019, 10:50:48 AM
What's wrong with that?
Apparently it's "unprofessional".
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 11:01:39 AM
Apparently it's "unprofessional".but that's how i roll
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 11:42:46 AM
Apparently it's "unprofessional".
Again you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning. That's the very definition of being a professional.
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2019, 04:41:06 PM
gase is making all you niggas gayThings Gase is unfairly blamed for:
-Injuries
-This entire board being gay
Post by: Miamipuck on December 14, 2019, 10:01:11 PM
Things Gase is unfairly blamed for:rooster makes the board gay, not Gase.
-Injuries
-This entire board being gay
Post by: SixFeetDeep on June 17, 2020, 12:56:03 PM
31 games, 29 TDs/ 33 ints, 180 YPG, 53 sacks
Darnold (‘18, ‘19):
26 games, 36 TDs/ 28 ints, 227 YPG, 63 sacks
Post by: Badger on August 02, 2020, 12:56:15 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on August 02, 2020, 02:05:27 PM
Post by: Badger on August 02, 2020, 03:13:32 PM
I don’t get the Herman Cain jokeFormer presidential primary candidate and COVID denier caught it (likely at a Trump rally) then died from it. When the news broke it was posted in 3 different threads so we just continued posting it in every thread.. Maybe because I’m not American
Post by: dcm1602 on August 02, 2020, 09:25:51 PM
I don’t get the Herman Cain joke 😬. Maybe because I’m not American 🤔
Here in America everytime someone you disagree with dies its like Christmas.
Post by: delavan on August 03, 2020, 03:35:44 PM
Here in America everytime someone you disagree with dies its like Christmas.That goes for the nice people in Canada too?
Post by: Johnny English on August 03, 2020, 03:37:47 PM
That goes for the nice people in Canada too?No, only the nasty ones.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 21, 2020, 12:07:18 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 21, 2020, 12:10:57 PM
Are we currently the worst team in the NFL?
Carolina without CMC is the only other team that MIGHT be worse than us.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 21, 2020, 12:24:19 PM
Are we currently the worst team in the NFL?
Yes.
We are flat out non-competitive.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 21, 2020, 12:35:11 PM
Post by: Badger on September 21, 2020, 04:45:01 PM
Are we currently the worst team in the NFL?Good job I actually meant to bump this last night
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 22, 2020, 01:07:18 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 22, 2020, 01:23:02 PM
Former presidential primary candidate and COVID denier caught it (likely at a Trump rally) then died from it. When the news broke it was posted in 3 different threads so we just continued posting it in every thread.
He had stage 4 cancer, but count him as COVID by all means.
I wanted him to win when he ran, was pissed when he got out.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 22, 2020, 01:30:26 PM
He had stage 4 cancer, but count him as COVID by all means.
I wanted him to win when he ran, was pissed when he got out.
Keep it in the COVID thread.
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 22, 2020, 03:01:36 PM
Keep it in the COVID thread.
Sorry, this excrement moves around so much, I see a post and answer it.
Regarding this team being depressing, we're two games in. Last year we got better as the year went along, but we can't dig another giant hole or the second half will be garbage time again. Not expecting this, but a couple of our best seasons started 0-2, including 1998 before Vinny came in for Foley. Just saying it's early, not that is isn't terrible.
Post by: Johnny English on September 22, 2020, 03:17:42 PM
Regarding this team being depressing, we're two games in. Last year we got better as the year went along
Counterpoint: it didn't, the opposition just got worse.
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 22, 2020, 03:19:20 PM
Counterpoint: it didn't, the opposition just got worse.
A little of both, but if we didn't play better we wouldn't have beaten any of them.
Post by: reuben on September 22, 2020, 05:20:05 PM
https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1308447818328297473 (https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1308447818328297473)
THIS MANS STILL DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY PRO FOOTBALL YET
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 22, 2020, 05:30:51 PM
This is why we shouldn't be totally depressed. We don't just have a left tackle; we've got the left tackle.
https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1308447818328297473 (https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1308447818328297473)
THIS MANS STILL DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY PRO FOOTBALL YET
Becton is my favorite pick since Brick. Yes, that includes Darnold.
Post by: Libero_2 on September 22, 2020, 05:38:11 PM
This is why we shouldn't be totally depressed. We don't just have a left tackle; we've got the left tackle.
https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1308447818328297473 (https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1308447818328297473)
THIS MANS STILL DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY PRO FOOTBALL YET
It blows my mind how good he has been.
It's a real shame that he is on our atrocious offense, so he won't get the credit he deserves. Even if he actually is the best rookie at the end of the season there is almost no chance that he is given the chance to win a OROY award as an Olineman
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 22, 2020, 05:41:04 PM
Post by: Laxin on September 22, 2020, 05:42:30 PM
This is why we shouldn't be totally depressed. We don't just have a left tackle; we've got the left tackle.
https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1308447818328297473 (https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1308447818328297473)
THIS MANS STILL DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY PRO FOOTBALL YET
This is awesome and gives us some hope. One of the most important positions looks to be setup with a cornerstone piece that has all-pro potential. Imagine giving this guy a half way decent guard next to him? Douglas knocked this pick out of the park.
Honestly, every time a run is called that is not behind Becton is a wasted opportunity.
Post by: reuben on September 22, 2020, 05:52:22 PM
This is awesome and gives us some hope. One of the most important positions looks to be setup with a cornerstone piece that has all-pro potential. Imagine giving this guy a half way decent guard next to him? Douglas knocked this pick out of the park.
Honestly, every time a run is called that is not behind Becton is a wasted opportunity.
We've got plenty of run plays behind Becton, we just didn't get to them. You don't go to your strongest plays unless everything else has worked first.
Post by: Laxin on September 22, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
We've got plenty of run plays behind Becton, we just didn't get to them. You don't go to your strongest plays unless everything else has worked first.
Ah the Gase method. I forgot. I’m not brilliant
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 23, 2020, 09:32:18 AM
Post by: Badger on September 23, 2020, 09:54:46 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 25, 2020, 09:07:30 PM
No lies detected
Post by: Libero_2 on September 25, 2020, 09:26:30 PM
https://twitter.com/adamlevitan/status/1309592724404867073?s=21
No lies detected
Please don't die Sam
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2020, 09:07:00 AM
https://twitter.com/adamlevitan/status/1309592724404867073?s=21
No lies detected
BEHIND ME SATAN!!!
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2020, 07:30:56 PM
Post by: Badger on September 27, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2020, 07:38:03 PM
Is it really a bump if the thread was posted in yesterday?
I’m more depressed than I was yesterday
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
Post by: steves850 on September 27, 2020, 07:43:34 PM
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2020, 07:49:37 PM
And the Kotite years were bad
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 27, 2020, 07:51:47 PM
This is the most depressing this team has ever been, the most poorly coached, and probably the worst roster I've ever seen
And the Kotite years were bad
100% Agree
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2020, 07:54:07 PM
This is the most depressing this team has ever been, the most poorly coached, and probably the worst roster I've ever seenI was depressed at the end of 2016. But this is worse because it is Week 3.
And the Kotite years were bad
Post by: Laxin on September 27, 2020, 08:10:23 PM
This is the most depressing this team has ever been, the most poorly coached, and probably the worst roster I've ever seen
And the Kotite years were bad
The worst part is that we should have our franchise QB... but poor coaching and roster management is going to ruin him.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 27, 2020, 08:12:42 PM
The worst part is that we should have our franchise QB... but poor coaching and roster management is going to ruin him.
THIS.
Post by: IATA on September 27, 2020, 08:27:40 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 28, 2020, 06:43:28 AM
The worst part is that we should have our franchise QB... but poor coaching and roster management is going to ruin him.
No...the worst part is that this was foretold. We all saw this coming....and all we could do was sit and watch it happen.
I'm so freaking dejected over this team, i don't even give a excrement if we draft Lawrence.....because we're gonna do the same thing to him.
Post by: steves850 on September 28, 2020, 07:11:32 AM
No...the worst part is that this was foretold. We all saw this coming....and all we could do was sit and watch it happen.This is it right here. Gase was the only candidate I was completely down on. I tried to be positive when he was hired but this is exactly my worst nightmare come true.
I'm so freaking dejected over this team, i don't even give a excrement if we draft Lawrence.....because we're gonna do the same thing to him.
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 28, 2020, 08:36:46 AM
Post by: Johnny English on September 28, 2020, 08:42:37 AM
The Jets are the only team in the league that has not held a lead at any point this season
Six teams have scored more points in a single game this season than the Jets have in all three (37). The Packers have scored that many or more in every game so far.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 28, 2020, 09:31:31 AM
Adam Gase's 2019-20 Jets are the first team in NFL history to have back-to-back seasons starting 0-3 with under 20 points and 300 yards in each game
Gase < Kotite
Post by: Badger on October 08, 2020, 08:10:52 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 08, 2020, 08:17:45 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 08, 2020, 09:39:20 AM
^ Never forget people on this board supported the HC up until week 1 of this season.
I can list a few...
Post by: bojanglesman on October 08, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
I can list a few...
I did. I wouldn't have cared if they fired him last year though. I'm not surprised things have gone south, but I thought he deserved another year. I'm done now.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 08, 2020, 10:29:50 AM
I did. I wouldn't have cared if they fired him last year though. I'm not surprised things have gone south, but I thought he deserved another year. I'm done now.
Once he was here he's here, you root for the team. I don't think anyone loved the hire. The second half of last year gave us some hope, you can say the schedule but you still have to win the games. This year's team isn't winning those games.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 08, 2020, 10:32:38 AM
Once he was here he's here, you root for the team. I don't think anyone loved the hire. The second half of last year gave us some hope, you can say the schedule but you still have to win the games. This year's team isn't winning those games.Not sure it really gave anyone all that much hope, but going 7-9 with last year's roster and Darnold's mono pretty much met expectations for me. It was uglier than I expected, but I don't like firing coaches unless I have to, and I didn't think last year was enough to fire him. If they fired him, I would have been fine with it, but I didn't think it was really deserved.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 08, 2020, 10:53:05 AM
Not sure it really gave anyone all that much hope, but going 7-9 with last year's roster and Darnold's mono pretty much met expectations for me. It was uglier than I expected, but I don't like firing coaches unless I have to, and I didn't think last year was enough to fire him. If they fired him, I would have been fine with it, but I didn't think it was really deserved.
So we're saying the same thing. By hope, I mean once we got our QB healthy and he figured out the offense a little, we won a bunch of games. I thought with no off season or pre season, the teams with some continuity in their systems would have a leg up, but it hasn't happened that way.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 08, 2020, 02:34:29 PM
was more or less underwhelmed with him at every step of the way and the social ineptitude he possesses that resulted in that bewildering introductory press conference was definitely a harbinger of the excrement to come
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 08, 2020, 02:51:19 PM
Original:
https://twitter.com/drewfrogger/status/1309531633545089024?s=21
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 08, 2020, 03:11:27 PM
https://twitter.com/picksixpod/status/1314252106203901952?s=21
Original:
somebody should make a video of that but transpose the gase faces/eyes from the intro presser onto theirs while they unsuccessfully attempt to drink the juice
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 08, 2020, 08:55:44 PM
Once he was here he's here, you root for the team. I don't think anyone loved the hire. The second half of last year gave us some hope, you can say the schedule but you still have to win the games. This year's team isn't winning those games.
Might I remind you, we lost to TWO winless teams last year. T-W-O
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 08, 2020, 08:57:22 PM
I remember the Kotite years...we were definitely bad, but we weren't uncompetitive. Our offensive rankings weren't this inept.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 08, 2020, 09:01:26 PM
GASE will go down as the worst Jets HC in the history of the franchise.
I remember the Kotite years...we were definitely bad, but we weren't uncompetitive. Our offensive rankings weren't this inept.
"Offensive genius".
Post by: mj2sexay on October 08, 2020, 09:34:46 PM
GASE will go down as the worst Jets HC in the history of the franchise.
I remember the Kotite years...we were definitely bad, but we weren't uncompetitive. Our offensive rankings weren't this inept.
Lol, what.
Kotite is the worst coach in the history of the franchise until this team actually goes 0-16.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 09, 2020, 07:16:37 AM
Might I remind you, we lost to TWO winless teams last year. T-W-O
That's my point. Wins are wins in the NFL, nothing is a given.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 09, 2020, 08:23:02 AM
Lol, what.
Kotite is the worst coach in the history of the franchise until this team actually goes 0-16.
It's more than just the record...it's how you play.
If you look at some of those games during the 1-15 season...we were competitive. Our offensive rankings were middle of the pack.
This team is pure excrement, uncompetitive, and offense is a dumpster fire.
Post by: MBGreen on October 09, 2020, 08:24:23 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 09, 2020, 08:34:59 AM
Total Yards: 11th
Passing Yards: 10th
Rushing Yards: 23rd
Points Scored:27th
This team isn't going to come close to any of these
Post by: Heismanberg on October 09, 2020, 08:35:45 AM
The game is completely different now.
Post by: MBGreen on October 09, 2020, 08:37:40 AM
Comparing 1996 offensive numbers to 2020 is a bit much.
The game is completely different now.
Offense was tougher to play because defenders could get away with alot more back then. Which makes this look even worse for Gase.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 09, 2020, 08:39:49 AM
Offense was tougher to play because defenders could get away with alot more back then. Which makes this look even worse for Gase.
It's a moot comparison.
Kotite and Gase both stink.
Comparing offensive numbers for different eras is pointless.
Post by: MBGreen on October 09, 2020, 08:49:44 AM
It's a moot comparison.
Kotite and Gase both stink.
Comparing offensive numbers for different eras is pointless.
Other than stricter penalties, more passing/less running, and moar flags being thrown....offense hasn't changed much.
But i agree, comparing futility is depressing and pointless. I hate this team right now.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 09, 2020, 08:51:32 AM
Other than stricter penalties, more passing/less running, and moar flags being thrown....offense hasn't changed much.
The Air Raid and the spread offense have completely changed offensive football.
Post by: MBGreen on October 09, 2020, 08:52:34 AM
The Air Raid and the spread offense have completely changed offensive football.
don't forget about the oopty-oop
Post by: Libero_2 on October 09, 2020, 08:53:50 AM
It's a moot comparison.
Kotite and Gase both stink.
Comparing offensive numbers for different eras is pointless.
At least he didn’t throw yardage totals up, he was giving league ranks. That’s at least something that could be discussed across eras.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 09, 2020, 09:34:45 AM
The Air Raid and the spread offense have completely changed offensive football.
Gase should try that stuff out instead of the 1980s offense
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 09, 2020, 10:08:15 AM
Comparing 1996 offensive numbers to 2020 is a bit much.
The game is completely different now.
i think comparing raw totals/averages for one team against the other makes no sense, but the rankings at least give an idea of how each team did stacked up against the rest of the nfl taking in the climate/trends of each respective era.
i don't think anybody would ever argue that kotite would do better than gase in this era or vice versa, just that kotite's team rankings against the rest of the league during his era stacked up better than gase's genius of a generation offensive mind-guru's rankings in his own era.
Post by: insanity on October 09, 2020, 10:21:31 AM
Comparing 1996 offensive numbers to 2020 is a bit much.
The game is completely different now.
Comparing statistics, sure, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with comparing their rankings
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 09, 2020, 01:55:55 PM
I'm disgusted that we're talking about any coach in the same breath as Rich Kotite. He was far and away the worst coach in the history of the franchise. No one was even close. If you asked the fans of every team in the NFL who they considered the worst coach in the history of their franchise, there might be some debate with other teams. With Kotite, it was an auto-response from Jets fans.
Not anymore
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on October 09, 2020, 02:12:58 PM
I agree that you can't really compare two eras, nevermind rankings
I'm disgusted that we're talking about any coach in the same breath as Rich Kotite. He was far and away the worst coach in the history of the franchise. No one was even close. If you asked the fans of every team in the NFL who they considered the worst coach in the history of their franchise, there might be some debate with other teams. With Kotite, it was an auto-response from Jets fans.
Not anymore
Rich Kotite won 4 games out of 32. Gase would have to go 0-36 to reach the same win percentage. We all hate Gase and would fire him into the sun, but c'mon now, it's still a long freaking way to Rich freaking Kotite.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 09, 2020, 02:13:33 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 09, 2020, 02:53:27 PM
Rich Kotite won 4 games out of 32. Gase would have to go 0-36 to reach the same win percentage. We all hate Gase and would fire him into the sun, but c'mon now, it's still a long freaking way to Rich freaking Kotite.
It's not about win pct.
The point I was attempting to make, is that while the Kotite era was deemed by almost all Jets fans as our darkest hour, they were competitive on offense unlike the utter disaster it is today. We were actually competitive in 2016, which is a lot more than can be said about this team.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 09, 2020, 02:54:37 PM
There were some close games in 1996 but a lot of them were over early. Week 1 was at Denver, granted the altitude, but NBC comes back from commercial and the entire D was on one knee with their helmets off like they hadn't trained all summer. That was actually a better team than the 3-13 team in 1995, which beat the Jags in the third week of their existence and beat Miami without Marino 16-15 in a home game I was at. We were 4-28 over two seasons, after finishing 0-5 with Pete Carroll, a stretch of 4-33 beginning with the Fake Spike game which was for first place and we led 24-6 in the 3rd quarter.
Which is something that will not happen this season
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 09, 2020, 03:17:48 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 12, 2020, 08:47:09 AM
The Jets are the only team in the league that has not held a lead at any point this season
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 12, 2020, 08:49:01 AM
New low point in the season every day seems like
https://twitter.com/nysfmag/status/1315629998993268736?s=21
Post by: Johnny English on October 12, 2020, 08:54:19 AM
That's not true, we had the first score of the game against Denver and held the lead for almost an entire quarter.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 12, 2020, 08:56:38 AM
That's not true, we had the first score of the game against Denver and held the lead for almost an entire quarter.
Stop defending Gase
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 12, 2020, 09:11:33 AM
That's not true, we had the first score of the game against Denver and held the lead for almost an entire quarter.
Doesn’t count that was a fluke run
Post by: Johnny English on October 12, 2020, 09:28:24 AM
Stop defending Gase
I just think that maybe we haven't given him a chance to show what he can do and no one could have done any better with this roster and it's probably because Sam sucks and you're forgetting that he went 6-2 in the second half of last season and 7-9 actually was quite a good record and really it's all on Mike Maccagnan, Brian Winters, the Johnsons, Rex Ryan and probably to some extent Rich Kotite.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 12, 2020, 09:33:57 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 12, 2020, 09:41:31 AM
Brian Winters is the second worst player in the NFL. Geno Smith remains #1.
Damn no love for Hackenberg
Post by: Heismanberg on October 12, 2020, 09:48:20 AM
Damn no love for Hackenberg
Hack is not in the league, but SBTG.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 12, 2020, 10:01:31 AM
I just think that maybe we haven't given him a chance to show what he can do and no one could have done any better with this roster and it's probably because Sam sucks and you're forgetting that he went 6-2 in the second half of last season and 7-9 actually was quite a good record and really it's all on Mike Maccagnan, Brian Winters, the Johnsons, Rex Ryan and probably to some extent Rich Kotite.
O-Line...don't forget the O-Line
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 12, 2020, 10:05:54 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 12, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
1980 we started 0-5, 1982 reached the AFC Championship game
1996 we started 0-5, 1998 reached the AFC Championship game
The first time we kept the same coach and QB (Walt Michaels and Richard Todd), the second time was the last Kotite year and we cleaned house. Parcells did go 9-7 in 1997 with almost the exact same roster that Kotite went 1-15 with in 96.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 12, 2020, 10:27:43 AM
Here's a little ray of historical hope:
1980 we started 0-5, 1982 reached the AFC Championship game
1996 we started 0-5, 1998 reached the AFC Championship game
The first time we kept the same coach and QB (Walt Michaels and Richard Todd), the second time was the last Kotite year and we cleaned house. Parcells did go 9-7 in 1997 with almost the exact same roster that Kotite went 1-15 with in 96.
97. Even Parcells, great a mind as he was wasn't immune to the stupid freaking decision of a halfback pass when seizing control of a football game.
That team should've made the playoffs.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 12, 2020, 10:38:34 AM
97. Even Parcells, great a mind as he was wasn't immune to the stupid freaking decision of a halfback pass when seizing control of a football game.
That team should've made the playoffs.
Yeah, he had no faith in O'Donnell.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 12, 2020, 10:43:53 AM
Post by: Johnny English on October 12, 2020, 01:54:08 PM
The New York Guardians were the last team to win a home game in MetLife Stadium.
The 49ers might very well end the season with more wins at Metlife than the Jets and Giants combined, they're 2-0 there vs the Jets at 0-3 and the Giants at 0-2.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 12, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Quote
#Jets are on pace to finish season w/ a point differential of -275.2. The worst point differential in the modern NFL? 1981 Baltimore Colts with -274
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 12, 2020, 01:57:10 PM
#Jets are on pace to finish season w/ a point differential of -275.2. The worst point differential in the modern NFL? 1981 Baltimore Colts with -274
I saw them play the Jets at Shea. We won like 25-0, Sack Exchange got Bert Jones 8 or 9 times.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on October 13, 2020, 12:05:09 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 13, 2020, 10:24:08 PM
Post by: steves850 on October 13, 2020, 10:25:10 PM
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 13, 2020, 11:07:34 PM
For me, Low point of the season is still watching Becton on the bench during the Denver game after coming out when re-injuring his shoulder
was that when he was on the bench holding his shoulder before or after we still brought him back in for the next drive
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on October 14, 2020, 03:14:18 AM
I don't know, guys... I'm starting to think this team is bad.
I'm with you. I think the consensus for answer to the title is beginning to be "Never".
Post by: Miamipuck on October 14, 2020, 09:26:17 AM
Post by: Johnny English on October 14, 2020, 09:49:39 AM
Answer is never. The problem right now is there's no hope.
I think we have a collection of people in charge - owner, GM and head coach - who are doing a really excrement job, but are telling each other how good they all are for fear that their whole delusion of competence comes crumbling down. As soon as one of them says "actually, that guy's doing a excrement job and probably shouldn't be doing it any more" the fingers start getting pointed at them as well. Gase is a useful lightning rod for Johnson and Douglas right now, and probably for a bunch of the scouts as well.
Post by: reuben on October 14, 2020, 09:57:09 AM
Answer is never. The problem right now is there's no hope.
PUUUUUUUUCK
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 14, 2020, 10:01:34 AM
lol poor Nania
Post by: Libero_2 on October 14, 2020, 10:49:59 AM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1316391950023561216?s=21
lol poor Nania
The man keeps digging deeper into that stuff. Props to him.
But my god we are an embarrassment among other all-time embarrassments.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 14, 2020, 10:53:55 AM
PUUUUUUUUCK
Hello my return tour is beginning. look out........lol
Post by: Badger on October 14, 2020, 11:22:00 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 14, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 14, 2020, 11:39:24 AM
Adam Gase delenda est.
This is the Cato we need
LFG
Post by: Badger on October 14, 2020, 01:05:07 PM
https://www.nj.com/jets/2020/10/for-the-3rd-week-in-a-row-a-jets-opponent-earns-player-of-the-week-honors.html
Post by: Libero_2 on October 14, 2020, 01:10:47 PM
We're making stars!
https://www.nj.com/jets/2020/10/for-the-3rd-week-in-a-row-a-jets-opponent-earns-player-of-the-week-honors.html
And it’s been all 3 phases getting it done against us the past 3 weeks too
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 14, 2020, 01:11:24 PM
We're making stars!
https://www.nj.com/jets/2020/10/for-the-3rd-week-in-a-row-a-jets-opponent-earns-player-of-the-week-honors.html
Heis is going to hate this...
Adam Gase delenda est.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 14, 2020, 01:12:51 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 15, 2020, 10:45:18 AM
Post by: Badger on October 15, 2020, 09:54:29 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/jets-going-0-16-wouldnt-bother-one-awful-team-of-their-past/
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 15, 2020, 10:00:27 PM
See what members of the '96 squad have to say about this season:
https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/jets-going-0-16-wouldnt-bother-one-awful-team-of-their-past/
I don’t remember even watching football at this point so...who cares?
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 15, 2020, 10:23:25 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 16, 2020, 07:11:52 AM
See what members of the '96 squad have to say about this season:
https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/jets-going-0-16-wouldnt-bother-one-awful-team-of-their-past/
That was a great read, thanks. Lived through that season, I still maintain 96 was a much better team than 95.
Fun fact, 1995 Week 1 I came back from Vegas and cut out alcohol because I was having bad stomach issues. Stayed off drinking over a year, went back to it in the middle of the 96 season. Picked the wrong time to try that excrement.
Post by: Badger on October 16, 2020, 07:54:28 AM
I don’t remember even watching football at this point so...who cares?Me neither, but the first hand accounts were interesting.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 16, 2020, 09:38:29 AM
Me neither, but the first hand accounts were interesting.
Keyshawn's book was awesome, came out the following spring.
Post by: delavan on October 16, 2020, 10:30:52 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/VIPfg5UqlVdrgMCjsE/giphy.gif)
Post by: Badger on October 18, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 18, 2020, 07:14:48 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 18, 2020, 08:17:48 PM
Post by: Badger on October 19, 2020, 09:17:59 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201019/105b40e150593420ac4ac28ffea80c4d.jpg)
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 19, 2020, 09:20:16 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 19, 2020, 09:26:52 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201019/105b40e150593420ac4ac28ffea80c4d.jpg)
Telling the Zodiac that the NFL canceled the 2020 season due to Corona
Post by: Badger on October 19, 2020, 09:27:01 AM
I should unfollow the NYJets subreddit for a while.I've just come back to check in on it for the first time in a while.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201019/2dff8c84a657c497ee80e7687239ff84.jpg)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 19, 2020, 09:27:36 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 19, 2020, 10:35:34 PM
2008 #Lions (0-16): -90
2017 #Browns (0-16): -63
2020 #Jets: -110
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 19, 2020, 10:43:53 PM
Point differentials through first 6 games
2008 #Lions (0-16): -90
2017 #Browns (0-16): -63
2020 #Jets: -110
We're #1(32)! We're #1(32)! We're #1(32!
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 10:43:33 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 10:45:06 AM
Sometimes bottoming out is better than staying on the treadmill of mediocrity for years and years.
You know this is why Rex was fired, right?
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 10:46:06 AM
You know this is why Rex was fired, right?
Rex took us to back to back AFC Championship Games, that's not mediocrity. He was fired after Idzik ruined the team.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 10:46:57 AM
Rex took us to back to back AFC Championship Games, that's not mediocrity. He was fired after Idzik ruined the team.
No....the last 4 years of Rex's tenure was mediocre excrement. Try and see past the 2 AFCCGs.
EDIT: Actually...6 years, if you include the turd sandwich he made up in Buffalo too.
Post by: Badger on October 20, 2020, 11:06:14 AM
No....the last 4 years of Rex's tenure was mediocre excrement. Try and see past the 2 AFCCGs.The last 4 years Rex had here > everything since then
EDIT: Actually...6 years, if you include the turd sandwich he made up in Buffalo too.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 12:20:49 PM
The last 4 years Rex had here > everything since then
"Which turd is more shiny" syndrome
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 12:27:26 PM
The last 4 years Rex had here > everything since then
It's all kind of one muddled bowl of crap.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 20, 2020, 01:03:51 PM
Next week, Fitz had 6 picks, he was mostly terrible from that point on, and that was all she wrote.
I wonder if Fitz and his agent (and the Jets) hadn't been such sticklers about his contract if things would have worked out differently.
Post by: Badger on October 20, 2020, 01:55:58 PM
The Jets haven't been fun to watch since Fitzy won that Thursday game in Buffalo, and they had that fun post-game interview.Yeah, I recently had a rude reminder of how bad everything was in 2016. I think I had memory-holed that season.
Next week, Fitz had 6 picks, he was mostly terrible from that point on, and that was all she wrote.
I wonder if Fitz and his agent (and the Jets) hadn't been such sticklers about his contract if things would have worked out differently.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 02:03:46 PM
The last 4 years Rex had here > everything since then
Two of them were actually 8-8, his QBs the entire time he was here were Sanchez and Geno. Once you know the guy can win and win in the playoffs, you shouldn't be so quick to replace him. Because the next coach just might be terrible, and the one after that and the one after that.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 02:06:07 PM
Two of them were actually 8-8, his QBs the entire time he was here were Sanchez and Geno. Once you know the guy can win and win in the playoffs, you shouldn't be so quick to replace him. Because the next coach just might be terrible, and the one after that and the one after that.
Rex lucked into those 2 playoff years with Mangini's roster. Once the roster became his, we stunk. And then to make sure it wasn't an anomaly, he stunk in Buffalo right after.
Post by: Badger on October 20, 2020, 02:07:33 PM
Rex lucked into those 2 playoff years with Mangini's roster. Once the roster became his, we stunk. And then to make sure it wasn't an anomaly, he stunk in Buffalo right after.So Mangini was a good coach then? He followed the exact same trajectory with less success in a shorter amount of time.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 02:09:32 PM
Rex lucked into those 2 playoff years with Mangini's roster. Once the roster became his, we stunk. And then to make sure it wasn't an anomaly, he stunk in Buffalo right after.
You still have to win the games. Rex beat Manning, Brady and Rivers on the road in the playoffs with Sanchez as his QB. Mangini had Favre and Pennington, never won a playoff game.
Both guys were dumb to take jobs in Cleveland and Buffalo, where nobody had won for a long time.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 02:10:26 PM
So Mangini was a good coach then? He followed the exact same trajectory with less success in a shorter amount of time.
I liked Mangini. Dude knows how to build a roster. I think Cleveland gave him the short end of the stick too.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 02:11:42 PM
I liked Mangini. Dude knows how to build a roster. I think Cleveland gave him the short end of the stick too.
Tannenbaum was the GM for Mangini and Rex. We've had this conversation a million times.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 02:12:31 PM
You still have to win the games. Rex beat Manning, Brady and Rivers on the road in the playoffs with Sanchez as his QB. Mangini had Favre and Pennington, never won a playoff game.
Both guys were dumb to take jobs in Cleveland and Buffalo, where nobody had won for a long time.
It was nice getting to the AFCCG in back to back years....but you know what....nobody gives a freak about that, especially 10 years later.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 02:14:03 PM
Tannenbaum was the GM for Mangini and Rex. We've had this conversation a million times.
Mangini built his oline in Cleveland (J.Thomas/Alex Mack) the same we he did in NY (Mangold/Brick)......that's not a coincidence. Tannenbaum is a freaking accountant, Mangini was the voice in that war room.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 02:14:18 PM
It was nice getting to the AFCCG in back to back years....but you know what....nobody gives a freak about that, especially 10 years later.
You brought up Rex, not me. The last time we weren't terrible or mediocre was when Rex and Revis were here, and you were all in on getting rid of both.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 02:14:49 PM
You brought up Rex, not me. The last time we weren't terrible or mediocre was when Rex and Revis were here, and you were all in on getting rid of both.
Rex had to go....it was true 6 years ago, it's true now.
EDIT: it's almost like the last 6 years (4 in NY, 2 in Buff) of Rex's coaching career doesn't resonate in your brain....it's astonishing.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 02:15:54 PM
Rex had to go....it was true 6 years ago, it's true now.
You got your wish, kudos to you. It's gone so well since then.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 02:17:25 PM
lol...dude, Revis on his way out. If we didn't trade him, we would've got nothing more than a 3rd round compensatory pick the following year.
We got nothing anyway.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 02:17:34 PM
You got your wish, kudos to you. It's gone so well since then.
i didn't want Bowles or Gase....thanks for the kudos though, my perceptions are quite accurate.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 02:19:05 PM
We got nothing anyway.
like i said....some facts don't resonate in your brain. We know that now.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 02:22:31 PM
So Mangini was a good coach then? He followed the exact same trajectory with less success in a shorter amount of time.
Mangini and Tannenbaum put together a lot of the better pieces of the team that Rex would later win with, and that he might have won with had Favre either not gotten injured, not concealed his injury, or got benched for his excrement performance in the latter half of the season.
He wasn’t that good but I don’t think he would have been fired has it not been for the Favre season and him looking like an idiot in front of the entire team trying to motivate Gholston by waving around his combine numbers at practice.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 20, 2020, 02:27:36 PM
Nothing more, nothing less.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 02:29:27 PM
Mangini built his oline in Cleveland (J.Thomas/Alex Mack) the same we he did in NY (Mangold/Brick)......that's not a coincidence. Tannenbaum is a freaking accountant, Mangini was the voice in that war room.
I think the Rex years kind of reinforce this. Gholston was a miss during Mangini but the rest of those draft picks weren’t as pee poor as the Rex era drafts, although only having four picks in 2007 reduced the risk of shitty players.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 02:33:31 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 20, 2020, 02:35:56 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 02:50:04 PM
I think the Rex years kind of reinforce this. Gholston was a miss during Mangini but the rest of those draft picks weren’t as pee poor as the Rex era drafts, although only having four picks in 2007 reduced the risk of shitty players.
Mangini was also impervious to the 2nd round curse (ie David Harris).
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 02:54:35 PM
We also added a lot of players from 2008 to 2010 when we went 11-5. Sanchez, Greene, Edwards, Holmes, LT on offense, Scott, Taylor, Leonhard and Cromartie on defense, it's not like it was the same team. Tannenbaum's first two drafts got us Brick, Mangold, Leon Washington, Brad Smith, Revis and Harris, so yeah, of course we kept them.
1. 2008 was a Mangini year.
2. We were talking specifically about Rex’s issues with the draft but I’ll bite.
Drafting Greene was nothing to brag about.
LT, Braylon, and Holmes were partially effective signings but mostly turned out to be two season rentals that happened to coincide with those first two seasons. Braylon talked his way off of the team and Holmes tried to burn the whole place down to get out. We haven’t made the playoffs since LT’s first season here so that’s fun.
Jason Taylor was not an impact signing, just more evidence of Rex’s habit of bringing in players who either played well for him or against him but were at that point past their prime.
Bart Scott, Jim Leonhard, and Cromartie were good signings who were kept on longer than they should have been. Cromartie was incredibly frustrating because of that one productive season in Arizona that convinced the FO to re-sign him only to watch him repeat
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 02:55:45 PM
Mangini was also impervious to the 2nd round curse (ie David Harris).
Kellen Clemens.
I didn’t say Mangini was great, but he had a lot more success in the draft than Rex.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 03:11:15 PM
Kellen Clemens.
I didn’t say Mangini was great, but he had a lot more success in the draft than Rex.
Kellen Clemens is gold
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 03:20:35 PM
1. 2008 was a Mangini year.
2. We were talking specifically about Rex’s issues with the draft but I’ll bite.
Drafting Greene was nothing to brag about.
LT, Braylon, and Holmes were partially effective signings but mostly turned out to be two season rentals that happened to coincide with those first two seasons. Braylon talked his way off of the team and Holmes tried to burn the whole place down to get out. We haven’t made the playoffs since LT’s first season here so that’s fun.
Jason Taylor was not an impact signing, just more evidence of Rex’s habit of bringing in players who either played well for him or against him but were at that point past their prime.
Bart Scott, Jim Leonhard, and Cromartie were good signings who were kept on longer than they should have been. Cromartie was incredibly frustrating because of that one productive season in Arizona that convinced the FO to re-sign him only to watch him repeat
Point is the team was in a different place when Rex was here, with different needs. The O-line had been put together, we needed skill position guys and brought them in. He needed guys who knew his defense from Baltimore and brought them in. By the second year when they brought in veterans like Holmes, LT and Taylor they were going for it, which means you're bound to slide back when those guys leave.
And again, Tannenbaum was the GM the whole time. This whole discussion is just MB's way of dodging the fact that Rex won here and took us to two AFC Championship Games. To do that you need to be a good coach, it's not been done by anyone else in our history, including Parcells, Ewbank, anyone. But any time you mention that he starts this whole thing like Mangini did it, when Mangini was not here when we won those playoff games. Then we go on for days about each individual player--all brought in by Tannenbaum--and get into the minutia of Rex's guys vs Mangini's guys.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
Point is the team was in a different place when Rex was here, with different needs. The O-line had been put together, we needed skill position guys and brought them in. He needed guys who knew his defense from Baltimore and brought them in. By the second year when they brought in veterans like Holmes, LT and Taylor they were going for it, which means you're bound to slide back when those guys leave.
And again, Tannenbaum was the GM the whole time. This whole discussion is just MB's way of dodging the fact that Rex won here and took us to two AFC Championship Games. To do that you need to be a good coach, it's not been done by anyone else in our history, including Parcells, Ewbank, anyone.
Rex did well for his first two seasons. Rex never did well as a head coach again.
He and Sanchez were essentially suffering from the same issue: they came in and surprised the league, got figured out quickly, and never were able to grow beyond their initial success.
As far as the roster goes, Mangini built a lot of the infrastructure that allowed the team to succeed. Rex couldn’t build the team out long term in the draft. Even his free agent signings were less and less productive as time went on.
He got the skill players early and then he and Tannenbaum failed to build anything around Sanchez after 2011 and both of their work on ignoring the offense came back to bite them.
What really keeps this argument going is that you seem to either completely fail to realize that the team failed under Rex far more than it succeeded, or flat out ignore it.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 03:30:41 PM
Rex did well for his first two seasons. Rex never did well as a head coach again.
He and Sanchez were essentially suffering from the same issue: they came in and surprised the league, got figured out quickly, and never were able to grow beyond their initial success.
Rex had been in the league a long time before he got here, Idzik took apart his roster. Sanchez was never that good, not only didn't start anywhere else, he barely found his way onto a roster.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 03:33:51 PM
What really keeps this argument going is that you seem to either completely fail to realize that the team failed under Rex far more than it succeeded, or flat out ignore it.
You added this part, I didn't see it. This is not a true statement, Rex had two winning/playoff seasons, two 8-8 and two losing seasons. That's not "far more" anything. The decline can be directly traced to firing Tannenbaum and hiring Idzik, who promptly traded our best player who Rex's whole defense was built around, got nothing back, then went 0 for 12 in the draft the following year.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 03:34:38 PM
Rex had been in the league a long time before he got here, Idzik took apart his roster. Sanchez was never that good, not only didn't start anywhere else, he barely found his way onto a roster.
Yea, most people who become head coaches have been in the league for longer than their head coaching tenure before they were hired at the first head coaching gig. What point did you think you were making?
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 03:36:52 PM
You added this part, I didn't see it. This is not a true statement, Rex had two winning/playoff seasons, two 8-8 and two losing seasons. That's not "far more" anything. The decline can be directly traced to firing Tannenbaum and hiring Idzik, who promptly traded our best player who Rex's whole defense was built around, got nothing back, then went 0 for 12 in the draft the following year.
I don’t know how to explain this to you, but going from the AFCC to 8-8 is a decline and never making the playoffs after your first two seasons is a decline. 8-8 is not a successful season.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 03:39:51 PM
I don’t know how to explain this to you, but going from the AFCC to 8-8 is a decline and never making the playoffs after your first two seasons is a decline. 8-8 is not a successful season.He doesn't get it and never will.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 03:42:07 PM
He doesn't get it and never will.
Yeah I’ve had my fill for today.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 03:45:19 PM
I don’t know how to explain this to you, but going from the AFCC to 8-8 is a decline and never making the playoffs after your first two seasons is a decline. 8-8 is not a successful season.
You load up on veterans and make a run, you can fall back. The next year we were 8-5 into December and fell apart at the end. It happens. Point is--again--when a coach shows you he can go to Foxboro and beat Brady/Belichick in the playoffs, he's worth keeping.
He doesn't get it and never will.
Yeah, because you "get it". They've been doing it your way ever since, it's been awesome.
Yeah I’ve had my fill for today.
Good. See ya.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 03:50:01 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 03:51:13 PM
Rex beat belichick once in a divisional game. Batten down the hatches folks.
Which completely negates all the times he got his derriere handed to him.
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 03:53:16 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 20, 2020, 03:57:19 PM
Which completely negates all the times he got his derriere handed to him.Pretty much
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 20, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
i'm happy for those 2 years, he definitely was happy for them, i think he's happy now, and he's still a jet fan. those are all good things and nothing really needs to change about any of this
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 04:18:18 PM
rex is probably my favorite jet coach of all time and ill always be thankful of what he was able to do those 2 seasons. it's just one of those things that ran its course and it was time for him to go. all good things come to an end and it's usually sooner rather than later for this team, and that's what happened with rex. i do think he was a better coach than some of the hires we've had since his departure but there is no point going down that road.
i'm happy for those 2 years, he definitely was happy for them, i think he's happy now, and he's still a jet fan. those are all good things and nothing really needs to change about any of this
This is a much more sane take on Rex, nobody stays forever. Just funny to see the fire everyone crowd on their way to 0-16 still turning their noses up at playoff wins ten years later.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 04:20:39 PM
rex is probably my favorite jet coach of all time and ill always be thankful of what he was able to do those 2 seasons. it's just one of those things that ran its course and it was time for him to go. all good things come to an end and it's usually sooner rather than later for this team, and that's what happened with rex. i do think he was a better coach than some of the hires we've had since his departure but there is no point going down that road.
i'm happy for those 2 years, he definitely was happy for them, i think he's happy now, and he's still a jet fan. those are all good things and nothing really needs to change about any of this
Don't get me wrong, those were very fun seasons. He just got figured out early and never fully developed as a head coach. He seemed to always view the offense as someone else's job.
Post by: Johnny English on October 20, 2020, 04:58:48 PM
Don't get me wrong, those were very fun seasons. He just got figured out early and never fully developed as a head coach. He seemed to always view the offense as someone else's job.
.... which would have been fine if "someone else" had meant someone more talented than Brian Schottenheimer, who as I have said more than once is Adam Gase lite. Or more accurately, Adam Gase is Brian Schottenheimer concentrated.
If Schotty had had an elite QB early in his career he would have also ended up in a head coaching job he was wildly unsuited to.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 20, 2020, 05:02:43 PM
.... which would have been fine if "someone else" had meant someone more talented than Brian Schottenheimer, who as I have said more than once is Adam Gase lite. Or more accurately, Adam Gase is Brian Schottenheimer concentrated.
If Schotty had had an elite QB early in his career he would have also ended up in a head coaching job he was wildly unsuited to.
lol i think this was my response a few weeks ago where somebody threw out schotty's name as a HC candidate and i think i said something like 'why would we go from one quasi-retard to another', but that's what going from gase to schotty would be
i think schotty would certainly be a better coach than gase, but that's not an endorsement of him. it's an indictment of how poor a coach/person gase is
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 05:14:43 PM
.... which would have been fine if "someone else" had meant someone more talented than Brian Schottenheimer, who as I have said more than once is Adam Gase lite. Or more accurately, Adam Gase is Brian Schottenheimer concentrated.
If Schotty had had an elite QB early in his career he would have also ended up in a head coaching job he was wildly unsuited to.
The part that I disagree with here is that the head coach needs to own the whole team. Rex just put someone else in charge and then fucked off to play with the defense again.
Post by: Badger on October 20, 2020, 05:32:28 PM
Rex had to go....it was true 6 years ago, it's true now.
And we've been worse off since then so it still hasn't paid off.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 05:36:47 PM
And we've been worse off since then so it still hasn't paid off.
Both statements are correct and an indictment on ownership and the front office's failure to put the right people on the field and on the sidelines.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 20, 2020, 06:15:29 PM
.... which would have been fine if "someone else" had meant someone more talented than Brian Schottenheimer, who as I have said more than once is Adam Gase lite. Or more accurately, Adam Gase is Brian Schottenheimer concentrated.
If Schotty had had an elite QB early in his career he would have also ended up in a head coaching job he was wildly unsuited to.
If memory serves Schottenheimer had the Bills job and turned it down because he felt a better opportunity would come along the next year. Unfortunately for both parties he never took the job
By that I mean him and us. The bills would have been worse off, likely would have not ended up with the McDermott/Allen combo they have now. Schotty would have gotten his one shot and we would obviously have been better than the Bills for that stretch of time
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 20, 2020, 07:55:27 PM
rex is probably my favorite jet coach of all time and ill always be thankful of what he was able to do those 2 seasons. it's just one of those things that ran its course and it was time for him to go. all good things come to an end and it's usually sooner rather than later for this team, and that's what happened with rex. i do think he was a better coach than some of the hires we've had since his departure but there is no point going down that road.100% agree. Love Rex. Loved those years. Ran its course. I dont think Rex is the type of coach who can be in one place for a decade.
i'm happy for those 2 years, he definitely was happy for them, i think he's happy now, and he's still a jet fan. those are all good things and nothing really needs to change about any of this
Bowles was a bad coach for us. Gase is worse. Rex is better than both. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't have been let go when he was.
They probably should have just kept Tanny and Rex and then dumped both together. But Tanny butchered the offseason so badly in 2011 that he earned his firing as well.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 20, 2020, 08:23:55 PM
My track record will show, I rarely get opinionated on the head coaches. Rex's time was up, Bowles was meh, but I'd take either over this freaking derriere clown.
I hate Gase more than any public "sports figure" associated with any of the teams I've ever rooted for. EVER.
He is a terrible head coach and a worse human being. freak HIM TO HELL
Post by: Badger on October 20, 2020, 08:37:57 PM
I hate Gase more than any public "sports figure" associated with any of the teams I've ever rooted for. EVER.
Same, probably. Billy King and Idzik are up there too for me.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 08:46:14 PM
Those first two years of Rex's tenure were by far and away the best years of Jets football in my entire life. Close second was the Parcells year specifically 1998.
My track record will show, I rarely get opinionated on the head coaches. Rex's time was up, Bowles was meh, but I'd take either over this freaking derriere clown.
I hate Gase more than any public "sports figure" associated with any of the teams I've ever rooted for. EVER.
He is a terrible head coach and a worse human being. freak HIM TO HELL
I said when the Jets hired Gase that they were doing everything they could to convince me to not be a fan and Gase and the Jets have not backed away from that.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 08:48:24 PM
I still think the 2005 team was the hardest to watch
Going back through this thread is fun. How do they stack up now?
Subquestion: Imagine Gase with Brooks Bollinger and Vinny's husk. Where does that put you? (Anybody feel free to answer)
Post by: Badger on October 20, 2020, 08:51:56 PM
Going back through this thread is fun. How do they stack up now?Basically where we were during the mono weeks last year.
Subquestion: Imagine Gase with Brooks Bollinger and Vinny's husk. Where does that put you? (Anybody feel free to answer)
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 20, 2020, 08:54:12 PM
i remember watching very intently and hoping that many of the JAGs we had on the team like derrick strait and kenyatta wright would actually cement a place for themselves on the future of the team. what a clown
also, fvck doug jolley
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 09:00:11 PM
i don't mind the 05 season as much but that's down to my youthful naïveté at the time
i remember watching very intently and hoping that many of the JAGs we had on the team like derrick strait and kenyatta wright would actually cement a place for themselves on the future of the team. what a clown
also, fvck doug jolley
That was my biggest takeaway from that season. My biggest takeaway from the end of that season was freak Mike Nugent.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 20, 2020, 09:05:42 PM
Basically where we were during the mono weeks last year.
Watching 16 weeks of that would have been painful. But at least the defense was fun at times last year.
This is collectively the worst team I’ve ever been a fan of and it isn’t close. Perhaps when we get some guys healthy (is that ever going to happen?) we don’t look as atrocious but there’s no chance this team ever looks good. I am struggling to think if we have even had a good quarter yet this year and I’m not sure we have. Not even the two picks against Denver will really count as a good quarter with how bad the offense was.
I don’t know if we will ever see another stretch of football this bad again. And thank god for that
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2020, 09:10:59 PM
Post by: Badger on October 20, 2020, 09:46:26 PM
Watching 16 weeks of that would have been painful. But at least the defense was fun at times last year.Week 1, 3rd quarter, Jets won 7-0
This is collectively the worst team I’ve ever been a fan of and it isn’t close. Perhaps when we get some guys healthy (is that ever going to happen?) we don’t look as atrocious but there’s no chance this team ever looks good. I am struggling to think if we have even had a good quarter yet this year and I’m not sure we have. Not even the two picks against Denver will really count as a good quarter with how bad the offense was.
I don’t know if we will ever see another stretch of football this bad again. And thank god for that
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 20, 2020, 10:21:01 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 20, 2020, 10:32:14 PM
bad year for jet dougs
Post by: Badger on October 20, 2020, 10:45:46 PM
To me 2005 was worse because we were just a FG away from the AFC Championship Game that January and it all fell apart. In 1996 we knew going in it was going to be bad, kind of like this year.It's easy to say that now but I don't know exactly at what point I gave up on this year. Maybe after week 2.
Going into the season I was uneasy because the roster was not demonstrably better than last year's, but I had a bit of hope that Darnold could take some magical year 3 step and put the team on his back.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 21, 2020, 09:06:14 AM
Oooof
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 26, 2020, 08:00:06 PM
Post by: Badger on November 06, 2020, 10:33:03 PM
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 07, 2020, 02:00:25 AM
I... miss Herm Edwards. That's how bad this is.
Just rewatch the closing seconds of the PO game in Pittsburgh and I'm sure you wont for long.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 07, 2020, 09:10:39 AM
Just rewatch the closing seconds of the PO game in Pittsburgh and I'm sure you wont for long.
You can zero in on anyone's worst moments. We got to the playoffs 3 times in Herm's first 4 years, 2005 was basically mailed in after Chad and Fiedler got hurt and Herm had KC lined up. Once Chad got in there he covered for Herm's flaws, that's the kind of QB Rex needed.
Post by: Badger on November 07, 2020, 09:37:38 AM
Just rewatch the closing seconds of the PO game in Pittsburgh and I'm sure you wont for long.
You can zero in on anyone's worst moments. We got to the playoffs 3 times in Herm's first 4 years, 2005 was basically mailed in after Chad and Fiedler got hurt and Herm had KC lined up. Once Chad got in there he covered for Herm's flaws, that's the kind of QB Rex needed.It was seeing him speaking to his ASU players that made me feel that way. I don't think Gase could motivate a banana to rot.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 07, 2020, 09:50:52 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2020, 02:47:40 PM
I... miss Herm Edwards. That's how bad this is.What if I told you we could hire...
- a college coach who has exceeded expectations in his time at the school
- was a solid NFL player
- has plenty of experience coaching in the NFL with several playoff appearances prior to his time in college
- is used to the NYC market and is proven to be media-savvy
...is that something you might be interested in?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2020, 04:22:08 PM
What if I told you we could hire...
- a college coach who has exceeded expectations in his time at the school
- was a solid NFL player
- has plenty of experience coaching in the NFL with several playoff appearances prior to his time in college
- is used to the NYC market and is proven to be media-savvy
...is that something you might be interested in?
*Raymond Holt voice*
Stop it.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 07, 2020, 07:48:22 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2020, 08:36:57 PM
What if I told you we could hire...
- a college coach who has exceeded expectations in his time at the school
- was a solid NFL player
- has plenty of experience coaching in the NFL with several playoff appearances prior to his time in college
- is used to the NYC market and is proven to be media-savvy
...is that something you might be interested in?
Very large no to Antonio Pierce
Post by: Badger on November 07, 2020, 09:07:30 PM
I would rather Herman Munster coach the team than Herman Edwards.BBTG
Post by: Miamipuck on November 07, 2020, 09:44:34 PM
BBTG
Yes and Fred Gwynne checked out.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 07, 2020, 09:57:42 PM
Saying you miss Herm makes me question if you need to be institutionalized for your own good.
Post by: Badger on November 07, 2020, 11:08:22 PM
It was seeing him speaking to his ASU players that made me feel that way. I don't think Gase could motivate a banana to rot.I stand by this
Post by: Miamipuck on November 08, 2020, 12:00:55 AM
Saying you miss Rex, sure, okay. Sometimes I do too.
Saying you miss Herm makes me question if you need to be institutionalized for your own good.
Herm was a snake oil salesman, which is great for college football because the HC is a sales job.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 08, 2020, 04:25:06 PM
Herm was a snake oil salesman, which is great for college football because the HC is a sales job.
I agree with this but he did do well here.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 09, 2020, 01:15:57 PM
(https://statewideinventory.org/dodge-logo)
The Jets are playing a different sport this season
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 09, 2020, 01:28:34 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/jkDVX7k/5-E915581-785-F-4-AEF-86-DA-A041-D2-BE2881.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VYTH4XY)
(https://statewideinventory.org/dodge-logo)
The Jets are playing a different sport this season
LOL another few weeks and we'll be on page 2.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 09, 2020, 02:33:07 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 09, 2020, 02:34:24 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 09, 2020, 02:50:43 PM
Most depressing part of this season for me might be Josh Allen’s development vs Sam Darnold’s
I still think Darnold will be fine with a team around him. Whether it's the Jets or another teem, I don't know.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 09, 2020, 02:51:08 PM
The fact that we actually got a MNF game so now I have to watch it.
7-9 has it's rewards.
Post by: Badger on November 17, 2020, 02:02:09 PM
Okay, but if the attitude is that the Jets are a hopeless organization with hopeless ownership, there's no point in even talking with you because you'll just assume the worst out of everything.
Why bother talking about the draft? They'll screw it up.
Why bother talking about the next coach? They'll screw it up.
Why bother talking about the next game? They'll screw it up.
If you don't think the Jets can ever win again under this ownership group, then why even bother posting here, or being a fan? You've already given up.
You talk about Rex as a mistake. Well, a team with a mistake head coach and a bad owner and terrible quarterback was very close to the Super Bowl in back-to-back years. That alone should tell you it's possible to win here.
Do the Bills, Buccaneers, Colts, Raiders, Cardinals and Saints have great ownership groups? Or did they hire the right coach, get the right quarterback, and find success with those guys?
This times infinity plus one.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2020, 10:57:21 AM
Darelle Revis
Vernon Gholston
Dustin Keller
Mark Sanchez
Kyle Wilson
Muhammed Wilkerson
Quinton Coples
Dee Milliner
Sheldon Richardson
Calvin Pryor
Leonard Williams
Darron Lee
Jamal Adams
Sam Darnold
Quinnen Williams
5 secondary players, 4 DL, 2 useless DE/OLB, 2 QBs they ruined, and a TE. 12 picks on defense out of 15, only 1 of whom is still with the team. Not one OL or WR. In a league whose rules have been modified to promote passing offenses.
This team is garbage because it has been run by garbage. excrement rolls downhill.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 20, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
Sandwiched between D'Brick + Nick and Becton the Jets have drafted the following first-rounders:
Darelle Revis
Vernon Gholston
Dustin Keller
Mark Sanchez
Kyle Wilson
Muhammed Wilkerson
Quinton Coples
Dee Milliner
Sheldon Richardson
Calvin Pryor
Leonard Williams
Darron Lee
Jamal Adams
Sam Darnold
Quinnen Williams
5 secondary players, 4 DL, 2 useless DE/OLB, 2 QBs they ruined, and a TE. 12 picks on defense out of 15, only 1 of whom is still with the team. Not one OL or WR. In a league whose rules have been modified to promote passing offenses.
This team is garbage because it has been run by garbage. excrement rolls downhill.
So much truth in this. But... I would say we didn't ruin Sanchez. We gave him the leagues #1 running game and OL and solid if not top of the line weapons his first couple years. He didn't show signs of being good enough then, and when we couldn't keep it upright he fell far farther than he should have if he was actually going to be a good player.
Your larger point is true. With 15 first rounders, we essentially wasted 5 on terrible players, took 3 reasonable starters, and then got little to no real long term return for 2 more even though they were strong players for us. Then we drafted 2 bonafide stars in Revis and Adams. Darnold and Williams are 2 young to fully say where they stand, but Q probably goes in the reasonable starters and Sam in the 'wasted' category because of what we did to him.
NOT good drafting in the past 11 years, at all.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 22, 2020, 02:49:34 AM
Darnold has been out there on his own, if he's here next year he'll be on his third coach in four years. If he doesn't take off on a 50 yard TD run we're kicking a FG, punting or turning it over.
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2020, 07:45:37 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2020, 07:49:40 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on December 20, 2020, 07:50:38 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2020, 07:55:00 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2020, 07:55:26 PM
So how's everybody doing?
Not enough alcohol in the world to do with the bullshit that is this year. Jets are just the icing on the cake
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 20, 2020, 08:01:41 PM
So how's everybody doing?
Good, why?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 20, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2020, 08:03:03 PM
Post by: klaximilian on December 20, 2020, 08:10:21 PM
Yikes. It's going to be OK, guys.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 20, 2020, 08:11:22 PM
*reads thread*
Yikes. It's going to be OK, guys.
Have you not been paying attention to college football for the past four years?
Post by: klaximilian on December 20, 2020, 08:12:41 PM
Have you not been paying attention to college football for the past four years?
Indeed I have.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 20, 2020, 08:12:52 PM
Post by: klaximilian on December 20, 2020, 08:13:32 PM
And then the Jets beat the Pats in week 17.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2020, 08:16:25 PM
This thread will be hilarious to revisit when the Jags beat the bears on Sunday.Not really
And then the Jets beat the Pats in week 17.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2020, 08:17:25 PM
This thread will be hilarious to revisit when the Jags beat the bears on Sunday.
And then the Jets beat the Pats in week 17.
Or in a few years when none of it matters.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 20, 2020, 08:17:32 PM
This thread will be hilarious to revisit when the Jags beat the bears on Sunday.
And then the Jets beat the Pats in week 17.
(https://i.gifer.com/3I1l.gif)
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2020, 09:06:41 PM
*reads thread*I don't think it's exaggerating to say this could be the nadir of the Gase era.
Yikes. It's going to be OK, guys.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
I don't think it's exaggerating to say this could be the nadir of the Gase era.
If nadir means last 15 days, then yes.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 20, 2020, 09:16:32 PM
If nadir means last 15 days, then yes.
He means Ralph Nadir
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2020, 09:18:56 PM
Sanchez was almost the 180 degree opposite of Darnold. The team around him and the coaching staff made him appear to be a franchise QB, but when we needed him to step up and be one we learned he wasn't one.
Darnold has been out there on his own, if he's here next year he'll be on his third coach in four years. If he doesn't take off on a 50 yard TD run we're kicking a FG, punting or turning it over.
After three years of Sanchez we still thought he could be a franchise QB, had won 4 road playoff games. You never know what happens if Darnold stays, we get a new staff and continue to draft good players.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2020, 09:19:21 PM
I don't think it's exaggerating to say this could be the nadir of the Gase era.
That's an interesting question. I'm not sure what it is, the whole thing has been just misery but thus far I'd probably say the Raiders loss. Which was on Williams.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
He means Ralph Nadir
Lol my autocorrect changed it to Nader. I voted for him in 2000.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 20, 2020, 09:26:03 PM
this win is so fvckin bad for the future of this franchise. it's a negative for the future of this franchise any way you fvckin slice it in what is a lost, meaningless season that means nothing anyways
you'll be fckin sorry when you watch lawrence throwing darts and dimes up the tight fckin assholes every team in the entire league in a few years while we're lamenting whatever garbage scrap of a QB we'll have playing for us at that time. so fvckin sorry
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 20, 2020, 09:26:46 PM
After three years of Sanchez we still thought he could be a franchise QB, had won 4 road playoff games. You never know what happens if Darnold stays, we get a new staff and continue to draft good players.
if you were able to watch darnold regularly this year you'd understand he's absolutely done here. and this is from a fan of his who wishes him the best for his career. he's done, the jets cannot undo what we did to him
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2020, 09:30:13 PM
if you were able to watch darnold regularly this year you'd understand he's absolutely done here. and this is from a fan of his who wishes him the best for his career. he's done, the jets cannot undo what we did to him
With respect, that's bollocks. He's not really that broken. He still does good things, he just makes some boneheaded decisions at times. He needs better protection, better coaching, and better playcalling. I'm fully OK with us replacing him but if we don't I think he's very easily put back on the right track.
The sky is not falling because we won a game.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2020, 09:32:19 PM
The sky is not falling because we won a game.
If you had any clue of what we potentially lost, you'd feel differently.
Post by: Jumbo on December 20, 2020, 09:33:31 PM
it's not just that this meaningless fvckin win cost us a golden opportunity at the best QB we could possibly get, with no other clear cut, concrete answers at the most important position in the game, which we currently have no future at.....doesn't this loss also mean our 2nd round pick is now much lower as well? correct me if i'm wrong, but don't picks 2 through ~6 start to rotate each round after the first? meaning that we dropped from possibly 1/33 to 2/35 or 36 or something?
this win is so fvckin bad for the future of this franchise. it's a negative for the future of this franchise any way you fvckin slice it in what is a lost, meaningless season that means nothing anyways
you'll be fckin sorry when you watch lawrence throwing darts and dimes up the tight fckin assholes every team in the entire league in a few years while we're lamenting whatever garbage scrap of a QB we'll have playing for us at that time. so fvckin sorry
Pick rotation only occurs among teams that finished with the same record, so technically we'd actually get pick #33 (if both Jags/Jets finish with 1 win)
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 20, 2020, 09:34:35 PM
With respect, that's bollocks. He's not really that broken. He still does good things, he just makes some boneheaded decisions at times. He needs better protection, better coaching, and better playcalling. I'm fully OK with us replacing him but if we don't I think he's very easily put back on the right track.
The sky is not falling because we won a game.
bro, when he has protection he inexplicably fuckin runs away from the pocket. he is seeing and hearing things that aren't there and missing things that actually are. let's get real here. we've FUBAR'd him and the jets aren't the team that'll guide him through any sort of reclamation process. you know this
but we won one game in 2020 that won't make you feel any better after we lose next week
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2020, 09:35:20 PM
I don't think it's exaggerating to say this could be the nadir of the Gase era.
I'm overwhelmed by the irony.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2020, 09:39:50 PM
if you were able to watch darnold regularly this year you'd understand he's absolutely done here. and this is from a fan of his who wishes him the best for his career. he's done, the jets cannot undo what we did to him
I disagree. He's 23 and not terrible. He has coaches who run us out of drives with dumb calls, best OL and WR are rookies, no reason he can't still work out. Lawrence may turn out to be great, we heard all the same stuff about Darnold. If we can get Lawrence great, if not we build with who we have.
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2020, 09:40:12 PM
That's an interesting question. I'm not sure what it is, the whole thing has been just misery but thus far I'd probably say the Raiders loss. Which was on Williams.From a dispassionate POV the franchise is worse off now than it was after the Raiders loss.
In b4 magic QB strawman
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 20, 2020, 09:43:05 PM
another confirmatory season watching how much we've fvcked up darnold is exactly what this excrement franchise needs. i'm so over this meaningless win/loss of lawrence. now all i have left is to keep rooting for darnold every week because he's a good guy while continually watching him underwhelm and make nonsensical, baffling decisions game after game after game
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 20, 2020, 09:48:22 PM
I disagree. He's 23 and not terrible. He has coaches who run us out of drives with dumb calls, best OL and WR are rookies, no reason he can't still work out. Lawrence may turn out to be great, we heard all the same stuff about Darnold. If we can get Lawrence great, if not we build with who we have.
IS, i appreciate the sentiments and the effort but you're just parroting baseless platitudes that can be applied to any young QB prospect in any troubled situation/bad team in this league without having had to watch just how fvcked and broken he has become developmentally. it's not actually an argument rooted in the reality that is the player and this team
Post by: insanity on December 20, 2020, 09:57:59 PM
IS, i appreciate the sentiments and the effort but you're just parroting baseless platitudes that can be applied to any young QB prospect in any troubled situation/bad team in this league without having had to watch just how fvcked and broken he has become developmentally. it's not actually an argument rooted in the reality that is the player and this teamWhy would is base anything in reality?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 20, 2020, 09:59:18 PM
I disagree. He's 23 and not terrible. He has coaches who run us out of drives with dumb calls, best OL and WR are rookies, no reason he can't still work out. Lawrence may turn out to be great, we heard all the same stuff about Darnold. If we can get Lawrence great, if not we build with who we have.He is pretty terrible. We make excuses because we drafted him high and he see s like a nice guy and we feel bad for him. But he has been terrible too.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2020, 10:01:29 PM
IS, i appreciate the sentiments and the effort but you're just parroting baseless platitudes that can be applied to any young QB prospect in any troubled situation/bad team in this league without having had to watch just how fvcked and broken he has become developmentally. it's not actually an argument rooted in the reality that is the player and this team
The past five years we've been in position to draft Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott and Josh Allen. I think we all can agree none of them would have had the success here that they have where they are. Do you think Darnold is that much different?
Being in position to draft a guy is half the battle. Drafting the right guys and building a team is the part we have to get right with Douglas. It's going to take some time, whether the Jags win next week and we get Lawrence or if they don't and we keep Darnold. Young guys are usually a product of their environment, so we need that right before any of these young guys can succeed here.
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2020, 10:22:27 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on December 20, 2020, 10:25:11 PM
Fact: We could have kept Herm and Chad this whole time and not be any worse off than we are now.
Fixed
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2020, 10:27:56 PM
FixedTechnically true but then we wouldn't have had the good Rex years.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2020, 10:37:38 PM
Fact: We could have kept Rex and Sanchez this whole time and not be any worse off than we are now.
To my point, Sanchez was no better than Darnold, but the culture, the talent and the coaching created an environment where he could have success. Build that back and you can win with any number of QBs, in my opinion including Darnold.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 20, 2020, 11:11:30 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on December 21, 2020, 05:24:56 AM
God is dead
Even if God is dead, you’re still gonna kiss his derriere!
Post by: MBGreen on December 21, 2020, 06:45:27 AM
I hate this franchise.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 21, 2020, 06:52:57 AM
Woke up this morning....still pretty sour.I already felt nothing before the game, so no harm here.
I hate this franchise.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201221/6264f6fb88bef611e76fb1a16ab818b7.gif)
JE:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201221/bc8ccc31f414bb6851bb22608282fc0e.gif)
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 23, 2020, 10:10:10 AM
https://twitter.com/RichEisenShow/status/1341082978693357570?s=20
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 23, 2020, 02:54:01 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2020, 04:26:56 PM
https://twitter.com/jetsnihilist/status/1341817047391596552?s=21
JACKASS
I'LL KILL YOU
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 23, 2020, 05:08:07 PM
if lil dick teams like the jets and bengals can beat the rams and steelers respectively, why can't the jags win a game this week or the next?
the dream is not yet dead
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
we're guaranteed the second pick from here on out so just gonna watch and see what happens.
if lil dick teams like the jets and bengals can beat the rams and steelers respectively, why can't the jags win a game this week or the next?
the dream is not yet dead
If we finish with the same record as Jacksonville, we will get the first pick in the second round (Pick #33) so we need to continue to tank no matter what.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2020, 07:55:44 PM
https://twitter.com/jetsnihilist/status/1341817047391596552?s=21
I hope someone farts in your dinner.
Post by: Badger on December 27, 2020, 08:06:05 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 27, 2020, 08:48:23 AM
Jets:
-Maybe getting a new QB, always interesting
-New coach and coaching staff
-Lots of valuable draft picks and a lot of cap space to start rebuilding
-Slate fairly clean regarding talent. We have some dead money to finish paying Tru, Bell, and Enunwa in 2021, but the players we have left are either important pieces or easily cuttable with minimal impact.
Now think about teams like the Lions and Vikings with these older QBs who are taking up huge amounts of salary cap, while going nowhere. The QBs are good enough not to bail on, but the fans are probably tired of them. They are stuck in purgatory. Especially the Lions. Can you imagine knowing every year you have to watch Stafford and his weird head put up a bunch of meaningless stats on the way to 5-8 wins every year. He'll always play well enough to keep you out of contention for any top draft pick, but not good enough to make a playoff run.
Look at the Bengals. They have this young, obviously franchise QB who exploded his knee and probably won't start the year playing in 2021. They'll have this young, budding team with some Tyrod Taylor-type manning the ship for half a season.
At least we have something interesting to look forward to. The Lions have an OK, overpaid QB that is just good enough and paid enough that they don't want to quit on him. It's like a dead-end marriage.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 27, 2020, 09:11:13 AM
I'd rather be in our situation than many others.Ever since Mims came back and started playing well, I've had a lot of optimism for next year. I'm not saying playoffs, but I thought with Trevor Lawrence, we would have a ton to look forward to next season. Without Trevor Lawrence, we still have a lot to look forward to, but it definitely takes a hit.
Jets:
-Maybe getting a new QB, always interesting
-New coach and coaching staff
-Lots of valuable draft picks and a lot of cap space to start rebuilding
-Slate fairly clean regarding talent. We have some dead money to finish paying Tru, Bell, and Enunwa in 2021, but the players we have left are either important pieces or easily cuttable with minimal impact.
Now think about teams like the Lions and Vikings with these older QBs who are taking up huge amounts of salary cap, while going nowhere. The QBs are good enough not to bail on, but the fans are probably tired of them. They are stuck in purgatory. Especially the Lions. Can you imagine knowing every year you have to watch Stafford and his weird head put up a bunch of meaningless stats on the way to 5-8 wins every year. He'll always play well enough to keep you out of contention for any top draft pick, but not good enough to make a playoff run.
Look at the Bengals. They have this young, obviously franchise QB who exploded his knee and probably won't start the year playing in 2021. They'll have this young, budding team with some Tyrod Taylor-type manning the ship for half a season.
At least we have something interesting to look forward to. The Lions have an OK, overpaid QB that is just good enough and paid enough that they don't want to quit on him. It's like a dead-end marriage.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 27, 2020, 09:14:19 AM
We are better than the following
Detroit - they have no exciting assets and are a mess
Atlanta - this team is 1-2 years away from a reset due to age of key players. But with solid moves they have a small window to be good, but no chance to “be great” and compete for a title before blowing it up
Houston - the damage done by BOB is going to prevent the team building for a while. But you have the QB, unfortunately that’s about it
Chi - good team, horrid QB play with no means to upgrade it
Bengals - again you have the QB, who just had a major injury and nothing else
Those in the arguement for best job this summer
Jets - for those Bo stated
LAC - have the QB, and the weapons at WR but the defense is a disaster and the OL is far worse. With limited capital to upgrade over the next few years being the biggest negatives
Jags - currently winning the Lawrence sweepstakes have one more year of big capital (money and picks) to build with. Everyone will be on the same timeline (GM, HC and QB assuming Marrone is fired). Owner has a long leash and is patient. Major downsides: small market, team frequently plays in London and may be primed to move their long term.
To me those are the 3 best jobs. Whomever of the Jets/Jags gets Lawrence is the most desirable spot unless you don’t wanna deal with the London thing. To me, 2nd is the loser of the Lawrence sweepstakes given how much ability is their to overturn the roster quickly. But the Chargers and Herbert are a huge draw. My guess is Bienemy ends up with the Chargers, and I don’t think he’s a guy the Jets/Jags are going to be fighting over anyways.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 27, 2020, 09:56:19 AM
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2021, 07:22:01 PM
Seriously, we had Josh McCown and had already seen a year of Hackenberg showing nothing at all, and Bryce Petty - what was the hesitation to draft another QB high?
I don't think it's a certainty that Mahomes or Watson would have done as poorly as Darnold has here, I think it's a Jets fan coping mechanism to insist good players would be bad if they were Jets.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2021, 07:28:25 PM
Been bummed out lately by what a missed opportunity it was to not draft a QB in 2017, or even McCaffrey who would have been a huge boon to our future QB.Completely agree.
Seriously, we had Josh McCown and had already seen a year of Hackenberg showing nothing at all, and Bryce Petty - what was the hesitation to draft another QB high?
I don't think it's a certainty that Mahomes or Watson would have done as poorly as Darnold has here, I think it's a Jets fan coping mechanism to insist good players would be bad if they were Jets.
At the same token, I do think Lamar would have probably failed here because I didn't think we had a creative coaching staff to take advantage of his skillet.
It is why I think if we draft Fields or Lance we need a creative offensive coach. Lawrence and Wilson are more scheme agnostic.
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2021, 07:52:35 PM
At the same token, I do think Lamar would have probably failed here because I didn't think we had a creative coaching staff to take advantage of his skillet.
Yeah, it does apply in some cases, but we have a tendency to use that for every player.
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2021, 07:54:14 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 01, 2021, 08:06:05 PM
2017 was basically a repeat of 2014, we took a 2nd round QB the year before and passed on multiple starting caliber QBs.
Which is a huge reason why I hope we either take the QB at #2, or we pass on the class altogether. The worst thing we could do is take Kyle Trask in round 2 to compete with Sam this year, let Sam walk next year after we go 4-12 and are picking 4th in 2022, and have to decide between Sam Howell or sticking with Trask.
Either go get the QB that you really believe in, or build the roster in the best way you can.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2021, 08:09:58 PM
Which is a huge reason why I hope we either take the QB at #2, or we pass on the class altogether. The worst thing we could do is take Kyle Trask in round 2 to compete with Sam this year, let Sam walk next year after we go 4-12 and are picking 4th in 2022, and have to decide between Sam Howell or sticking with Trask.If you can self-evaluate, it shouldn't be as much of a problem. They should have realized Hack sucked. Geno at least showed a few flashes in games and won 8 games. Drafting with Hack and trusting him was inexcusable.
Either go get the QB that you really believe in, or build the roster in the best way you can.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 01, 2021, 10:06:27 PM
Which is a huge reason why I hope we either take the QB at #2, or we pass on the class altogether. The worst thing we could do is take Kyle Trask in round 2 to compete with Sam this year, let Sam walk next year after we go 4-12 and are picking 4th in 2022, and have to decide between Sam Howell or sticking with Trask.
Either go get the QB that you really believe in, or build the roster in the best way you can.
It's kind of a moot point
If Joe Douglas was GM at the time sure, but he wasn't.
Mac proved fairly regularly that he made pretty shitty roster decisions
Now all we can do is hope Joe Douglas knows what he's doing
If he can get value for the 2nd pick, or draft a tackle capable of flirting with being all pro on an annual basis for the next 15 years, I'd be happy with it.
Sure drafting the next Mahomes would be nice, but we should trust his judgment
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 01, 2021, 10:13:01 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 01, 2021, 10:14:16 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2021, 08:33:56 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 15, 2021, 08:34:41 AM
NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
You could have just let it die. It would have cost you nothing to just let it die. What I would give to not see this thread bumped for one week.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 15, 2021, 08:35:09 AM
NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
GIMMIE A HELL YEAH!
Post by: reuben on January 15, 2021, 08:35:32 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 15, 2021, 08:35:56 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 15, 2021, 08:38:26 AM
Lock this and the Curious Gase thread.
No way.
This should be bumped sporadically. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 15, 2021, 08:40:58 AM
Lock this and the Curious Gase thread.
freak that. Rename this bitch
When's the last time this team was this competent?
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2021, 08:43:15 AM
freak that. Rename this bitch
When's the last time this team was this competent?
1969
Post by: Libero_2 on January 15, 2021, 08:44:50 AM
1969
Of course.
But I was talking about the new thread title.
Post by: Badger on January 15, 2021, 09:27:48 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 15, 2021, 09:29:17 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2021, 09:38:59 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 10, 2021, 10:11:51 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 26, 2021, 12:11:31 PM
Post by: Badger on October 26, 2021, 12:41:24 PM
Post by: insanity on October 26, 2021, 12:50:47 PM
Davis Mills went 21-29 for 312 yards and 3 TDs against the Patriots todayYeah but they have...
Post by: Badger on October 26, 2021, 10:29:12 PM
Post by: Coach K on October 27, 2021, 12:12:32 AM
Its only sad because I paid for the Sunday ticket lol
Post by: MBGreen on October 27, 2021, 07:15:58 AM
Its only sad because I paid for the Sunday ticket lol
same here, broski
Post by: ScotlandJet on October 27, 2021, 09:13:00 AM
I'm used to it
Its only sad because I paid for the Sunday ticket lol
Me too.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 27, 2021, 10:24:22 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 27, 2021, 10:27:47 AM
Be a thief....stream it.
reported to the authorities
Post by: Miamipuck on October 27, 2021, 11:23:24 AM
reported to the authoritiesDidn't say I did it
Post by: MBGreen on October 27, 2021, 11:24:53 AM
Didn't say I did it
you're going down for it anyway
Post by: Miamipuck on October 27, 2021, 11:26:02 AM
you're going down for it anyway
I just retained Johnnie Cochran good luck with that.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 15, 2021, 01:58:48 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 15, 2021, 02:12:10 PM
This never would have happened to Rex Ryan.
#BillsMafia disagrees
Post by: Heismanberg on November 15, 2021, 05:37:51 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 15, 2021, 06:02:04 PM
Bring back Mangini
Y'know, you've been saying this for a while now and I'm not entirely sure you're wrong. He's still really young as well.
Post by: Badger on November 17, 2021, 08:07:26 AM
Post by: Badger on November 17, 2021, 08:16:24 AM
After hitting the bottom of the barrel with Kotite's 1-15 in 1996, from 1997-2013 the Jets only had 4 losing seasons while making the playoffs 7 times including 3 AFCCG appearances. None of the losing seasons were consecutive, we always seemed able to address the problems in a single off-season and bounce back. That era spanned 2 owners, 4 GMs, and 5 head coaches.
I don't really have a point here but I was just thinking about this.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 17, 2021, 08:24:50 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 17, 2021, 08:31:02 AM
Bring back Mangini
Didn't he have have a falling out with ownership?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 17, 2021, 10:47:52 AM
Apropos of nothing,A lot of those seasons as a kid gave me hope for now that we could turn it around with a good offseason. I still think it's true, though we've dug such a big hole that we need multiple offseasons.
After hitting the bottom of the barrel with Kotite's 1-15 in 1996, from 1997-2013 the Jets only had 4 losing seasons while making the playoffs 7 times including 3 AFCCG appearances. None of the losing seasons were consecutive, we always seemed able to address the problems in a single off-season and bounce back. That era spanned 2 owners, 4 GMs, and 5 head coaches.
I don't really have a point here but I was just thinking about this.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 17, 2021, 11:07:19 AM
Post by: Badger on November 28, 2021, 05:39:08 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2021, 04:02:44 PM
We have now clinched our 6th straight losing season.
Post by: Johnny English on December 05, 2021, 04:23:13 PM
I would put this in the "When was the last time the Jets were this depressing" thread, but Badger is a tyrant who closed the thread for some reason.
We have now clinched our 6th straight losing season.
I assume that was done in error. I have fixed it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2021, 04:25:52 PM
I assume that was done in error. I have fixed it.I believe he closed it as soon as we won more games than last season.
Post by: Johnny English on December 05, 2021, 04:29:10 PM
I believe he closed it as soon as we won more games than last season.
I believe it was in error, as there's no reason why it should be closed if people want to post in it. Let's go with that.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 05, 2021, 04:32:46 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 05, 2021, 04:38:27 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 05, 2021, 04:39:39 PM
I'm way less depressed with the team this year than last year. Still depressed, but at least I look forward to stuff every weekend. Last year I didn't bother to watch some of the games.
This is broadly where I'm at.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 05, 2021, 04:42:23 PM
This year is mildly depressing, but it's so much better than last season. I actually want to watch the games.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 05, 2021, 04:52:51 PM
Oh this year is nothing compared to last season. I just wanted to post the note about clinching another losing season in here.
This year is mildly depressing, but it's so much better than last season. I actually want to watch the games.
today i saw a 3rd and 1 HB draw run for a first down, and all i could think about in that moment was how gase would be all googly-eyed about it wondering why it wasn't called on 1st and 10 or 3rd and 20
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2021, 07:22:13 AM
I believe it was in error, as there's no reason why it should be closed if people want to post in it. Let's go with that.Those people are wrong. If this thread doesn't get locked periodically then it's going to live on the front page of the Jets forum in perpetuity. Someone will bump it if we spend a day 3 draft pick on a player they haven't heard of.
Honestly it should stay buried til at least 2023.
Post by: ScotlandJet on December 06, 2021, 09:41:14 AM
I'm way less depressed with the team this year than last year. Still depressed, but at least I look forward to stuff every weekend. Last year I didn't bother to watch some of the games.
I'm with you bro; I'm still interested this year where as last season I couldn't even be bothered to watch late in the schedule.
I guess we ultimatley know we are headed in the right direction even it's going to be a long road.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 06, 2021, 09:44:49 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Those people are wrong. If this thread doesn't get locked periodically then it's going to live on the front page of the Jets forum in perpetuity. Someone will bump it if we spend a day 3 draft pick on a player they haven't heard of.
Honestly it should stay buried til at least 2023.
I think our defense qualifies for this thread
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2021, 07:14:33 PM
I think our defense qualifies for this threadNo, because it should get better and we weren't competing this year anyway.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 06, 2021, 07:29:23 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2021, 08:59:55 PM
No, because it should get better and we weren't competing this year anyway.
Hard to be worse than 32nd in points and 32nd in yards
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2021, 10:17:41 PM
Hard to be worse than 32nd in points and 32nd in yardsAdam Gase and the shell of Sam Darnold was more depressing than anything the Jets have done this year.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2021, 10:20:22 PM
Adam Gase and the shell of Sam Darnold was more depressing than anything the Jets have done this year.
This is correct
I feel like we got blown out less under Gase somehow though
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 24, 2021, 09:33:39 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2021, 09:35:55 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 24, 2021, 09:37:37 AM
https://twitter.com/bigbluevcr/status/1474372196759969794?s=10
Thank you for that Christmas Eve nut punch. That play was the beginning to their super bowl run. It was also the beginning of the end for us. And we since been 11 years without the playoffs and look like we might be eternally far away still
Post by: Badger on December 24, 2021, 10:16:12 AM
Thank you for that Christmas Eve nut punch. That play was the beginning to their super bowl run. It was also the beginning of the end for us. And we since been 11 years without the playoffs and look like we might be eternally far away stillAn end to the "golden age" that began in 1997.
From the hiring of Bill Parcells to the 2011 collapse.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2021, 02:54:05 PM
An end to the "golden age" that began in 1997.
From the hiring of Bill Parcells to the 2011 collapse.
The fact that said era could be called a golden age is so depressing in and of itself.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 11, 2022, 02:17:10 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2022, 02:18:46 PM
We've got the Senior Bowl, tons of cap space, significant draft capital, and a potential franchise quarterback.
Post by: reuben on January 11, 2022, 02:26:01 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 11, 2022, 02:36:19 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2022, 02:37:34 PM
I refuse to get my expectations up. There are many good things going on for the team but just as many or more holes to be filled. We need everything to go well for us to contend for a playoff spot next year and most of it to go well to be good in the long run. My biggest hope is that this FO seem to know what they're doing but, as I said, I'm done defending everything this team does just out of hope, so I refuse to get my expectations up until I can see something meaningful.
I expect this team to win at least 8 games in 2022. I'm not saying playoffs or bust, but we should be in the hunt down to the wire.
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2022, 02:50:32 PM
https://twitter.com/evanrobertswfan/status/1480990563973443585?s=21Now do last playoff win.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 11, 2022, 03:02:07 PM
I expect this team to win at least 8 games in 2022. I'm not saying playoffs or bust, but we should be in the hunt down to the wire.
If we played the 2022 schedule starting next week, I see about 3 wins, maybe 4.
Obviously that doesn't translate because good teams can become bad, but I have a hard time seeing this team being above .500, but I don't see anything positive anymore about the Jets. I've officially been Seafooded.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 11, 2022, 03:05:30 PM
If we played the 2022 schedule starting next week, I see about 3 wins, maybe 4.
Obviously that doesn't translate because good teams can become bad, but I have a hard time seeing this team being above .500, but I don't see anything positive anymore about the Jets. I've officially been Seafooded.
We're going to have to take back that vaccine.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2022, 03:05:47 PM
If we played the 2022 schedule starting next week, I see about 3 wins, maybe 4.
Obviously that doesn't translate because good teams can become bad, but I have a hard time seeing this team being above .500, but I don't see anything positive anymore about the Jets. I've officially been Seafooded.
There’s at least 11 winnable games on that schedule.
Obviously we won’t win them all, but we should have a shot in all of them.
Miami x2
New England* x2
Chicago
Minnesota
Seattle
Jacksonville
Detroit
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
Post by: bojanglesman on January 11, 2022, 03:20:57 PM
There’s at least 11 winnable games on that schedule.I can see a few more wins on that schedule than I realized, but a lot will depend on QB situations in a lot of those, esp Seattle. If they still have Wilson, that's likely a loss. We aren't beating NE. I didn't expect Miami to fire their coach when I last looked, so who knows what they will be.
Obviously we won’t win them all, but we should have a shot in all of them.
Miami x2
New England* x2
Chicago
Minnesota
Seattle
Jacksonville
Detroit
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2022, 03:26:29 PM
We aren't beating NE.
We can beat New England next year.
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
There’s at least 11 winnable games on that schedule.
Obviously we won’t win them all, but we should have a shot in all of them.
Miami x2
New England* x2
Chicago
Minnesota
Seattle
Jacksonville
Detroit
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
if Rodgers retires or signs elsewhere as a FA....i'd tack on Green Bay to that list. Jordan Love stinks.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2022, 03:32:17 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2022, 03:33:01 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2022, 03:34:26 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2022, 03:40:07 PM
It was a long, difficult season but 5 of our losses were one score games. It doesn't feel like it because of the blowouts, but we lost some close ones.
it also didn't help that we were 2nd worst in the league when it came to injuries
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2022, 03:47:47 PM
It was a long, difficult season but 5 of our losses were one score games. It doesn't feel like it because of the blowouts, but we lost some close ones.But blowouts = Rich Kotite, it's science
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2022, 03:52:36 PM
We can beat New England next year.
We can beat Buffalo as well. Who they were this year is who they are, I think. There will be days when Allen is elite and there will be days when he's garbage.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 11, 2022, 03:53:40 PM
We can beat Buffalo as well. Who they were this year is who they are, I think. There will be days when Allen is elite and there will be days when he's garbage.
Losing Daboll could hurt them
Post by: bojanglesman on January 11, 2022, 03:59:54 PM
Losing Daboll could hurt themI'm hyped to see Josh Allen regress
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2022, 09:09:26 AM
Now do last playoff win.DON'T MIND IF I DO
The Bengals, Lions, Dolphins, Raiders, and Snyders all have longer playoff win droughts.
The Bears are also in a playoff win drought since 2010.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 22, 2022, 02:21:46 PM
It’s time
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 22, 2022, 02:26:58 PM
Quote
last Jets QB with a winning record in New York was Mark Sanchez
8-12: Zach Wilson
1-7: Joe Flacco
1-2: Mike White
13-25: Sam Darnold
0-2: Luke Falk
0-1: Trevor Siemian
5-11: Josh McCown
1-6: Bryce Petty
13-14: Ryan Fitzpatrick
1-2: Mike Vick
12-18: Geno Smith
33-29: Mark Sanchez
Ok I wasn’t planning on going SOJF but seeing this was absolutely worse
Post by: Badger on November 22, 2022, 02:29:51 PM
Ok I wasn’t planning on going SOJF but seeing this was absolutely worseI'm gonna cut you
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2022, 05:18:26 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 22, 2022, 06:38:24 PM
aren't we 6-4? wtf is this
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/763/07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpeg)
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2022, 07:02:30 PM
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 08:10:06 AM
Post by: guinness77 on November 23, 2022, 10:31:13 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/763/07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpeg)Perfect use of this meme.
Post by: mj2sexay on November 23, 2022, 10:32:11 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 12:28:49 AM
Vindicating my previous belief that this thread should have stayed locked.1-5 since this post.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 12:38:17 AM
2008
- Started 8-3, collapsed down the stretch due largely to QB injury
- Fits the mode of "hot start, collapse, QB injury"
- Main difference: 2022 team was never anywhere near as good as the 2008 team was
2019
- Same record of 7-9 through 16 games.
- Both had 2nd-year QB who didn't take major step forward and dealt with injuries
- Main difference: 2019 started 1-7 and ended 6-2, while 2022 started 7-4 and ended 0-5.
2000
- Jets start 6-1, lose 3 straight, then to to 9-4, and end season on 3-game losing streak
- Both teams had miracle victories early in the season
- Both teams boosted by draft class with multiple 1st-round picks
- Main difference: Despite the rookies, this was mostly a veteran team with a new coach
Post by: Badger on January 02, 2023, 10:35:13 AM
1-5 since this post.Not my fault you bitches can't stop bumping it every year.
The current answer is 2020. The previous answer was 1996.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 02, 2023, 02:11:17 PM
Quote
Brian Costello
This is incredible. Where Jets QBs have been ranked by QB rating over last few years: 2022: Zach 33 of 33 qualified 2021: Zach 31 of 31 2020: Sam 35 of 35 2019: Sam 27 of 32 2018: Sam 31 of 33
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2023, 02:40:09 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 02, 2023, 02:42:45 PM
This year was particularly awful because the rest of the team was good
No, it wasn't. We thought it was, but the offense was pretty bad all-around.
The offensive line was very bad even before AVT got injured.
We can't place all of the blame on the QB this time. The offense fell apart around the QB - the OL was bad, Garrett Wilson was the only consistent WR, and our running game stunk after Hall got injured.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2023, 02:48:22 PM
No, it wasn't. We thought it was, but the offense was pretty bad all-around.
The offensive line was very bad even before AVT got injured.
We can't place all of the blame on the QB this time. The offense fell apart around the QB - the OL was bad, Garrett Wilson was the only consistent WR, and our running game stunk after Hall got injured.
“Team” includes the defense too.
You can nitpick if you want, but it’s easily the best team we’ve had in years and were playing well enough to compete in a crappy AFC.
Ok, so we can agree that they were playing well enough until their 2 best players on offense went out for the season. Definitely coincided with the collapse in QB play.
Post by: MBGreen on January 02, 2023, 03:52:02 PM
Spending the #2 and #3 picks on those guys and seeing them fail so spectacularly, so miserably, and so quickly is pretty depressing for me. This year was particularly awful because the rest of the team was good and with mediocre QB we probably make the playoffs. Now it’s back to square 1 looking for a QB when we haven’t had a legitimate long term solution since Pennington
We had a mediocre QB at the controls yesterday...didn't make a difference.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 02, 2023, 03:57:47 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 02, 2023, 04:00:58 PM
Quote
Brian Costello
Sam Darnold does not have enough passes to qualify this year but his QB rating is second behind Tua among QBs who have started at least 5 games.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2023, 10:04:21 AM
Cimini
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 10:04:58 AM
#Jets have not had a player throw for 10 TD passes in 3 straight seasons. They are the first team to do that since the 2008-10 Browns, per @EliasSports
Cimini
We've become the Cleveland Browns.
The Jets are the new sadness of the NFL.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 10:06:14 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 10:06:29 AM
We've become the Cleveland Browns.There's MORE sadness?
The Jets are the new sadness of the NFL.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 10:09:59 AM
We've become the Cleveland Browns.
The Jets are the new sadness of the NFL.
All will be good once MLF is sacrificed to Paimon this afternoon.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2023, 10:11:44 AM
All will be good once MLF is sacrificed to Paimon this afternoon.
Not really unless your magic new OC has a gameplan to turn Chris Streveler into an 10 TD machine
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 10:12:45 AM
Not really unless your magic new OC has a gameplan to turn Chris Streveler into an 10 TD machine
Who was Tebow's OC in Denver?
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 10:15:08 AM
Not really unless your magic new OC has a gameplan to turn Chris Streveler into an 10 TD machine
I'd rather roll the dice on a new offensive system than continue to not score touchdowns on offense.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 10:17:34 AM
Who was Tebow's OC in Denver?We should hire his QB coach.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2023, 10:20:18 AM
I'd rather roll the dice on a new offensive system than continue to not score touchdowns on offense.
Unless you’re hiring Josh McCown as OC and having him get out there to throw passes as a player/coach, we’re not scoring more TDs next season without a real QB
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 10:21:40 AM
Unless you’re hiring Josh McCown as OC and having him get out there to throw passes as a player/coach, we’re not scoring more TDs next season without a real QBGoing to be hard for McCown to throw touchdowns for the Jets when he's coaching the Texans. But maybe he can be player/coach for both the Texans and Jets. Combined, maybe we can make the playoffs.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 10:22:26 AM
Unless you’re hiring Josh McCown as OC and having him get out there to throw passes as a player/coach, we’re not scoring more TDs next season without a real QB
We're on the same page regarding the need for a QB. But we need a new offensive system, a competent playcaller and a reputable QB coach.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2023, 12:57:15 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 15, 2023, 01:01:38 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2023, 02:14:49 PM
Send this thread to the moon you crybaby losers
LFG
Post by: steves850 on March 15, 2023, 02:34:52 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 11, 2023, 10:53:51 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 11, 2023, 10:54:46 PM
So Jets
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 11, 2023, 10:58:07 PM
“I can’t believe this excrement”
“This was destiny”
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 01:06:37 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 08:43:26 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 08:44:13 AM
https://x.com/jasrifootball/status/1701585302366703669?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Nathaniel Hackett pulled an Adam Gase all-nighter
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 08:51:00 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 08:51:15 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 08:51:34 AM
Send this thread to the moon you crybaby losers
Mods plz delete this post
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 12, 2023, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think this team has ever been this talented overall with a potentially elite QB to match. The cliff we fell off was like the Grand Canyon.
Post by: IATA on September 12, 2023, 09:12:53 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 09:52:21 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 14, 2023, 12:10:40 AM
https://x.com/snyjets/status/1701768830488367415?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg"And I felt like a fraud" made me laugh out loud.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2023, 12:32:38 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 06:00:06 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 06:12:20 PM
So far Hackett is worse than MLF lolMLF had some creativity which gave you hope he could be good. And he was young, and he was rising in his career.
He failed because he was bad at dealing with Wilson and because the offense was such a mess last December/January that something had to change. The Wilson part may end up not looking that bad in retrospect if Wilson is that bad. But no matter who the QB is, you can't score 6 points or less in 3 straight games to end a season and expect to keep your job.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 06:12:41 PM
Post by: Badger on September 24, 2023, 06:21:16 PM
Post by: reuben on September 24, 2023, 06:38:11 PM
https://www.dictionary.com/e/translations/verschlimmbesserung/
(https://i.imgur.com/v6Cz89O.jpg)
Post by: Johnny English on September 24, 2023, 08:42:54 PM
https://www.dictionary.com/e/translations/verschlimmbesserung/The Germans have a word for everything.
Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 09:47:48 PM
This coaching staff will prove their mettle or prove their ineptitude this yr
Just said in the QB thread as of now we improved just enough to resemble last yrs team to a tee vs a much tougher schedule
That's on JD .
MacDonald rotting on the sideline and hardman being an after thought are amusing but in a sad way .
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 10:36:28 PM
Not 100% sure on the lip read (looks acc) but his face reads exactly like the caption
Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 11:21:26 AM
I knew it was bad but seeing it bleed into this year and reach this number is so depressing
We're the 99 Bucs without Brad Johnson
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 28, 2023, 11:45:06 AM
If the Jets scored a league avg 18 pts per game. They'd be 15-3 in their last 18 games
I knew it was bad but seeing it bleed into this year and reach this number is so depressing
We're the 99 Bucs without Brad Johnson
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
I keep seeing this and every time it makes my reflux act up
This isn't even depressing, it's angering
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2023, 12:11:28 PM
If the Jets scored a league avg 18 pts per game. They'd be 15-3 in their last 18 gamesMy one pushback is that teams play really conservative offense against us because they know we can't score.
I knew it was bad but seeing it bleed into this year and reach this number is so depressing
We're the 99 Bucs without Brad Johnson
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Look at last week against the Patriots. The Patriots got up 10 points and got unbelievably conservative after that. When our offense does nothing, I think opponents take their foot off the gas a little bit on the other side.
Don't get me wrong, we have a very good defense, and if we could score 18 PPG, we'd win a LOT more games. But we wouldn't be 15-3.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 28, 2023, 12:21:41 PM
My one pushback is that teams play really conservative offense against us because they know we can't score.
Look at last week against the Patriots. The Patriots got up 10 points and got unbelievably conservative after that. When our offense does nothing, I think opponents take their foot off the gas a little bit on the other side.
Don't get me wrong, we have a very good defense, and if we could score 18 PPG, we'd win a LOT more games. But we wouldn't be 15-3.
Chicken and egg here
Our defense spends more than half of every game on the field. If we were capable of scoring even competently they'd have more time to rest between drives.
Post by: Badger on September 28, 2023, 12:24:08 PM
My one pushback is that teams play really conservative offense against us because they know we can't score.
Look at last week against the Patriots. The Patriots got up 10 points and got unbelievably conservative after that. When our offense does nothing, I think opponents take their foot off the gas a little bit on the other side.
Don't get me wrong, we have a very good defense, and if we could score 18 PPG, we'd win a LOT more games. But we wouldn't be 15-3.
This was a thing during the Herm years. The narrative was that we had a great second half defense, implying we made good halftime adjustments, but the reality was other teams took the lead and went conservative on offense.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 28, 2023, 12:27:41 PM
Our defense has not done a great job of getting off the field either. We are dropping interceptions again and we are really bad at getting off the field on third downs so far too.
It goes both ways. They can't point their finger at the offense (or the quarterback) for giving up a comeback route on 3rd and 15.
Post by: reuben on September 28, 2023, 12:55:13 PM
Our offense is awful and our defense is out there a lot, but we are insanely deep on the defensive line and those dudes are more than capable of rotating and playing at a high level all game. LBs and DBs should be good to go no matter how much they are out there.
Our defense has not done a great job of getting off the field either. We are dropping interceptions again and we are really bad at getting off the field on third downs so far too.
It goes both ways. They can point their finger at the offense (or the quarterback) for giving up a comeback route on 3rd and 15.
Third and long should be absolute money downs for this unit, pure mayhem. That 3rd and 15 to a wide open Parker was one of the most disappointing plays of the season for me. On third and longs, I'm usually thinking, "Really hope we get off the field here," instead of "I want my SCALPS!!!"
Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 02:09:46 PM
Elite defenses generate turnovers . We don't. Pretty todd Bowles Ds did that at a better rate or at least I know we had a 4 or 5 turnover game
Seeks like we can only do that to Josh Allen lol
I think they'd be more efficient if the O didn't suck dong. But there is no excuse for lack of turnover opportunities. We've seen at least 3 pick 6s almost gimme level tds left on the field already .
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Post by: d sw0rdz on September 28, 2023, 05:24:55 PM
Seeks like we can only do that to Josh Allen lol
we got helped by allen deciding to play yolo ball for the first game of the season
Post by: Coach K on September 28, 2023, 06:15:20 PM
we got helped by allen deciding to play yolo ball for the first game of the seasonFair but I'd argue if it were anything like the other games Whitehead drops each of them lol
But the other ints missed were mosely sauce and Reed
Ironically our best players not named Q lol
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2023, 12:13:38 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/xLLjPk2/IMG-2059.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5448t01)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2023, 08:46:55 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2023, 09:54:25 AM
https://x.com/cover1/status/1726582636657909947?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
this is my Joker origin story
Post by: bojanglesman on November 21, 2023, 10:12:02 AM
Only tinge of hope is our defense playing suffocating defense and winning maybe 2 of the next 3 with some baseball scores, like 8-3 and excrement. Enough for Rodgers to come back with some outside mathematical chance to make the playoffs. Highly doubtful.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 24, 2023, 07:32:57 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 24, 2023, 07:42:15 PM
Can't fire anyone beyond lower coaches this offseason, this was a risk of taking on Rodgers. He has this franchise by the nutsack. They've gone all in on him. There's no option to fire Hackett. If you can't fire Hackett, you can't hire another HC, so Saleh stays. Can't fire Douglas and make a new GM take the HC. You have to hope that Rodgers carries this team next year and we can get healthy and add some sore of OL, WR. No need to discuss firing Hackett, Saleh, or Douglas any further. We made our bed and it's done.freak ticking off Rodgers. He can leave.
Only tinge of hope is our defense playing suffocating defense and winning maybe 2 of the next 3 with some baseball scores, like 8-3 and excrement. Enough for Rodgers to come back with some outside mathematical chance to make the playoffs. Highly doubtful.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 24, 2023, 08:49:52 PM
freak ticking off Rodgers. He can leave.
Sounds great in theory but no one wants to bail on 2024 Rodgers. He's still good.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 24, 2023, 08:59:33 PM
Sounds great in theory but no one wants to bail on 2024 Rodgers. He's still good.Lmao, 2022 Rodgers wasn't very good.
Post by: Jumbo on November 24, 2023, 09:01:42 PM
A good WR1 (GW), good RB, Lazard, acceptable TE is basically the old Packers. Even last year with Rodgers at his worst GB was an average offense. Compared to the current output that's a revelation. We can bitch about the OL all day but they would not look as disastrous if teams had to actually respect the threat of the pass.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2023, 09:01:54 PM
Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.
Post by: Jumbo on November 24, 2023, 09:14:03 PM
There is a case to be made for pulling the plug and rebuilding. But in reality, we are in a similar spot to last year with a great defense, 2 young stud skill players, and with major questions at QB and the OL. 8 months ago, we were pretty much all on board with paying a vet QB a lot of money, even if you didn't want Rodgers. In reality. what has changed? Defense is the same. QB is already here.
Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.
Agreed. I don't even like Saleh too much but there's a much better case for sticking with him than with JD at this point. Saleh at least gets the excuse of not picking his personnel at QB/OL. That's on JD. Either way I know it's a great time to be reactive and want everyone gone but it doesn't really make much sense to do it just because we're upset at how this season has gone. A new regime next year makes it much harder to win games and we're still in win now mode with Rodgers at the helm.
Post by: Coach K on November 24, 2023, 09:17:18 PM
There is a case to be made for pulling the plug and rebuilding. But in reality, we are in a similar spot to last year with a great defense, 2 young stud skill players, and with major questions at QB and the OL. 8 months ago, we were pretty much all on board with paying a vet QB a lot of money, even if you didn't want Rodgers. In reality. what has changed? Defense is the same. QB is already here.
Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.
which is why i said it can be turned around, however the cap is gonna be rough. CJ Mosely needs to take a pay cut , Uzomah needs to be cut, JFM needs to take a pay cut and if not likely just cut him. All of this HAS to happen to have the cap to shore up the OL with the limited draft capital we have. then we need to objectively make good 1st and 3rd rd picks.
This sounds doable but yeah , just gonna be a tall task. We also need a 40 yr old coming off achilles injury to be as good as he was 2 or 3 yrs ago.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 24, 2023, 09:19:21 PM
There is a case to be made for pulling the plug and rebuilding. But in reality, we are in a similar spot to last year with a great defense, 2 young stud skill players, and with major questions at QB and the OL. 8 months ago, we were pretty much all on board with paying a vet QB a lot of money, even if you didn't want Rodgers. In reality. what has changed? Defense is the same. QB is already here.
Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.
There isn’t really. We have a clear path to a veteran QB and no clear path to a top 4 QB in the draft, who will inevitably bust like our last few top picks because of our OL and Allen Lazard
Post by: Coach K on November 24, 2023, 09:23:15 PM
There isn’t really. We have a clear path to a veteran QB and no clear path to a top 4 QB in the draft, who will inevitably bust like our last few top picks because of our OL and Allen Lazard
that Lazard contract is the offensive version of the Trumaine Johnson deal. granted its about 5 mil per yr cheaper, but its an anchor nonetheless
Post by: Miamipuck on November 25, 2023, 01:55:52 AM
Agreed. I don't even like Saleh too much but there's a much better case for sticking with him than with JD at this point. Saleh at least gets the excuse of not picking his personnel at QB/OL. That's on JD. Either way I know it's a great time to be reactive and want everyone gone but it doesn't really make much sense to do it just because we're upset at how this season has gone. A new regime next year makes it much harder to win games and we're still in win now mode with Rodgers at the helm.
I usually agree with you but you're out of your mind if you don't think Saleh and Douglas, the scouts and coaches are all on the same page when it comes to drafting and signing the players, they want or need for the system. They're all clueless incompetent or both at the other side of the ball.
I am undecided at the moment if they should clean house or not. Saleh sucks, there's no accountability, they make the same boneheaded game after game. Jefferson should have been benched forthwith after that dumb derriere freak head butt. Yay he benched Lazard, a full 3 weeks too late.
Douglas's malfeasance/ incompetence on offense is astounding.
They both are terrible but I am not the owner.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on November 25, 2023, 02:46:16 AM
which is why i said it can be turned around, however the cap is gonna be rough. CJ Mosely needs to take a pay cut , Uzomah needs to be cut, JFM needs to take a pay cut and if not likely just cut him. All of this HAS to happen to have the cap to shore up the OL with the limited draft capital we have. then we need to objectively make good 1st and 3rd rd picks.
This sounds doable but yeah , just gonna be a tall task. We also need a 40 yr old coming off achilles injury to be as good as he was 2 or 3 yrs ago.
They will probable trade JFM. He's very good, we have depth at the position and we can't afford his salary. We'll get a 3rd or 4th for him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 07:13:38 AM
which is why i said it can be turned around, however the cap is gonna be rough. CJ Mosely needs to take a pay cut , Uzomah needs to be cut, JFM needs to take a pay cut and if not likely just cut him. All of this HAS to happen to have the cap to shore up the OL with the limited draft capital we have. then we need to objectively make good 1st and 3rd rd picks.
This sounds doable but yeah , just gonna be a tall task. We also need a 40 yr old coming off achilles injury to be as good as he was 2 or 3 yrs ago.
We already restructured JFM and Mosely if we want to pay them less money we have to cut or trade them.
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2023, 08:35:24 AM
We already restructured JFM and Mosely if we want to pay them less money we have to cut or trade them.Then say goodbye to both if we're gonna get the cap relief to actually fix this offense
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 09:39:20 AM
Them say goodbye to both if we're gonna get the cap relief to actually fix this offenseYes. The defense is going to have to lose assets in order to retool the roster.
JFM and Mosely are probably the top two I can think of.
DJ Reed, who also restructured his deal to include 3 seasons of void years, has a $15million cap number next season. MC2 might get to play on the outside next season.
We're getting some relief from Lawson's deal expiring, but not enough. We'll once again have to replace most of our safeties. Huff would be nice to have back but I don't see how he can be a priority at this point.
We need 2 OTs, 1 OG, a #2WR, and a more experienced slot receiver to fill out the offense.
I think we can probably land 1 OLine and 1 WR in both FA and the draft if we're smart. If we do what I think we're going to do then JD is going to sacrifice a premium pick for Davonte Adams, sign an injury prone veteran, and call the WR position solved.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 10:02:42 AM
Everyone is bitching about how Rodgers wouldn't save this team but Jets fans haven't seen competent QB play for so long we're forgetting what it's like
In this reality that you've crafted for yourself are people only allowed to watch one team ever?
There is a case to be made for pulling the plug and rebuilding. But in reality, we are in a similar spot to last year with a great defense, 2 young stud skill players, and with major questions at QB and the OL. 8 months ago, we were pretty much all on board with paying a vet QB a lot of money, even if you didn't want Rodgers. In reality. what has changed? Defense is the same. QB is already here.
Sure, Rodgers and AVT are bigger question marks. But Tippmann gives us one more potential impact OL. We will have one more draft class with a high pick. Maybe they do a better job on the vet FA market.
We are realizing how much worse the team is than we thought. At least at that point we had the excuse of thinking that AVT's injury problems were a one-off and that Brown might be able to help this season.
We also didn't realize how hard Douglas would continue to miss on WR acquisitions.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 25, 2023, 12:05:47 PM
Yes. The defense is going to have to lose assets in order to retool the roster.
JFM and Mosely are probably the top two I can think of.
DJ Reed, who also restructured his deal to include 3 seasons of void years, has a $15million cap number next season. MC2 might get to play on the outside next season.
We're getting some relief from Lawson's deal expiring, but not enough. We'll once again have to replace most of our safeties. Huff would be nice to have back but I don't see how he can be a priority at this point.
We need 2 OTs, 1 OG, a #2WR, and a more experienced slot receiver to fill out the offense.
I think we can probably land 1 OLine and 1 WR in both FA and the draft if we're smart. If we do what I think we're going to do then JD is going to sacrifice a premium pick for Davonte Adams, sign an injury prone veteran, and call the WR position solved.
I agree that something(s) on the defense needs to go to open up help for the offense and the defensive line has to be it. Looks like they have 5 of the main DL rotation under contract for 2024 (Jefferson voids this offseason, maybe they can get him back). Maybe do something with JFM? He is good, but making a lot of money. Would be nice if we could just eat a little of his contract and trade him somewhere. It would leave a hole in the DL, but sacrifices need to be made.
Douglas should approach Laken Tomlinson and re-do his contract or cut him. He will be the 5th highest paid LG in the league next year. They need to get his salary down or we cut him. That wouldn't be an empty threat either. Around $8 million would be what a top 8-10 left guard gets in the league. That's what we'd save by cutting him.
I don't think they'd risk losing DJ Reed. He would be the 12th highest paid corner in 2024 and I'd argue he's that good. I think they'll either get him a new deal or leave it where it is.
Mosley is still good, but he's getting older. I wouldn't be surprised if they re-do his deal to keep him here but get his cap # down for 2024. I think they should do all they can to keep him. I think he can keep playing at a high level for a few more years.
Cutting Uzomah will free up $5 mil.
I like Conklin, but I wouldn't care if they let him go or kept him. He's overpaid but I don't know if that's because our QB play sucks and there's no one to get him the ball. At least he doesn't freak up that much with drops and penalties and he seems like a likeable guy, not that it matters.
As much as it hurts to say, signing Huff to a new deal will make improving the offense harder. I think the plan is to let him walk and let WMD replace him. Saves money and gets a starting role for the 1st rounder Douglas picked. Huff is going to get a boatload of cash somewhere.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 12:26:42 PM
I agree that something(s) on the defense needs to go to open up help for the offense and the defensive line has to be it. Looks like they have 5 of the main DL rotation under contract for 2024 (Jefferson voids this offseason, maybe they can get him back). Maybe do something with JFM? He is good, but making a lot of money. Would be nice if we could just eat a little of his contract and trade him somewhere. It would leave a hole in the DL, but sacrifices need to be made.
Douglas should approach Laken Tomlinson and re-do his contract or cut him. He will be the 5th highest paid LG in the league next year. They need to get his salary down or we cut him. That wouldn't be an empty threat either. Around $8 million would be what a top 8-10 left guard gets in the league. That's what we'd save by cutting him.
I don't think they'd risk losing DJ Reed. He would be the 12th highest paid corner in 2024 and I'd argue he's that good. I think they'll either get him a new deal or leave it where it is.
Mosley is still good, but he's getting older. I wouldn't be surprised if they re-do his deal to keep him here but get his cap # down for 2024. I think they should do all they can to keep him. I think he can keep playing at a high level for a few more years.
Cutting Uzomah will free up $5 mil.
I like Conklin, but I wouldn't care if they let him go or kept him. He's overpaid but I don't know if that's because our QB play sucks and there's no one to get him the ball. At least he doesn't freak up that much with drops and penalties and he seems like a likeable guy, not that it matters.
As much as it hurts to say, signing Huff to a new deal will make improving the offense harder. I think the plan is to let him walk and let WMD replace him. Saves money and gets a starting role for the 1st rounder Douglas picked. Huff is going to get a boatload of cash somewhere.
Everyone you've mentioned as a possible contract renegotiation has already renegotiated their contracts. Unless we want to keep paying these dudes until 2030 some of them are going to have to go.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 25, 2023, 12:43:10 PM
Everyone you've mentioned as a possible contract renegotiation has already renegotiated their contracts. Unless we want to keep paying these dudes until 2030 some of them are going to have to go.
He’s not asking for a restructure, he’s asking us to make these guys take pay cuts or to get cut. That’s not the same thing. Not keep the money the same and move it around, literally not pay them as much as they are scheduled to make.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 12:54:57 PM
He’s not asking for a restructure, he’s asking us to make these guys take pay cuts or to get cut. That’s not the same thing. Not keep the money the same and move it around, literally not pay them as much as they are scheduled to make.
How do you think NFL pay cuts work?
Post by: Libero_2 on November 25, 2023, 12:59:27 PM
How do you think NFL pay cuts work?
While a restructure happens, I suspect it would work like Carl Lawsons and Jordan Whiteheads, hey redid their contracts to take a lower salary. So yes it would be a restructure (which can be done annually) but their total dollars earned this year would decrease, or we would cut them.
JFM will be traded to get us capital back or to try and add into a deal for Davante Adams. Mosely will probably ask to be cut rather than take less money. I have no idea what Laken would do. Uzamoh doesn’t get a choice cut his derriere in the tunnel after week 17.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 25, 2023, 01:36:22 PM
While a restructure happens, I suspect it would work like Carl Lawsons and Jordan Whiteheads, hey redid their contracts to take a lower salary. So yes it would be a restructure (which can be done annually) but their total dollars earned this year would decrease, or we would cut them.
JFM will be traded to get us capital back or to try and add into a deal for Davante Adams. Mosely will probably ask to be cut rather than take less money. I have no idea what Laken would do. Uzamoh doesn’t get a choice cut his derriere in the tunnel after week 17.
Well put.
Carl Lawson had a choice. Stay here and make less than you would have or get cut and make even less than that as a free agent. In other words, we'll pay you more than anyone else to stay, but not as much as you would have made. Take it or leave it. He took it. Only difference is that Carl Lawson had no dead cap if he got cut, so he had less leverage.
I agree about Mosley. He could still make good money elsewhere. The question is how much. Also, how motivated is he to stay here or to leave here. He might be willing to take less money to get outta here or to stay depending on how he feels about the team. He has a big cap # for his age though, it's hard to look at. He's arguably still worth it though, even at his age.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 25, 2023, 01:44:13 PM
Well put.
Carl Lawson had a choice. Stay here and make less than you would have or get cut and make even less than that as a free agent. In other words, we'll pay you more than anyone else to stay, but not as much as you would have made. Take it or leave it. He took it. Only difference is that Carl Lawson had no dead cap if he got cut, so he had less leverage.
I agree about Mosley. He could still make good money elsewhere. The question is how much. Also, how motivated is he to stay here or to leave here. He might be willing to take less money to get outta here or to stay depending on how he feels about the team. He has a big cap # for his age though, it's hard to look at. He's arguably still worth it though, even at his age.
If I were Mosely I’d want to get out of here, but he is the leader of a defense that is special/spectacular. That might mean something to him, and it might mean something to have sat through all the dark times, just to walk away when we have Rodgers ready to theoretically help us compete.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 02:09:23 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 25, 2023, 02:19:22 PM
I don't see why anyone would be doing this team favors with their money. Especially since all of these guys have guaranteed void years for the next two or three seasons after their contracts are up.
Which is why we would have to follow through on the threat to cut them if they don’t want to. It’s not a favor, it’s a choice.
You can either
- stay here, but make less money than your current contract, which might still be more than you’ll get elsewhere
- get cut, and take your chances that you can make more money elsewhere
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 02:24:41 PM
Which is why we would have to follow through on the threat to cut them if they don’t want to. It’s not a favor, it’s a choice.
You can either
- stay here, but make less money than your current contract, which might still be more than you’ll get elsewhere
- get cut, and take your chances that you can make more money elsewhere
Yes, we are agreeing with each other. You don't need to explain the idea behind the process again.
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2023, 06:39:42 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 25, 2023, 07:06:51 PM
Painfully true lol (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231126/308dd0621c737683852d3dd1944d3dfb.jpg)
If this is somehow updateable for 2024… the world needs to burn
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2023, 08:05:18 PM
If this is somehow updateable for 2024… the world needs to burnI mean its very obvious you have a playoff mandate in 24 and burn it to the ground otherwise .
Post by: Libero_2 on November 25, 2023, 08:15:40 PM
I mean its very obvious you have a playoff mandate in 24 and burn it to the ground otherwise .
With the Jets? Of course. But I meant the entire world needs to burn if Jets fans have to watch an offense worse than this one next season
Post by: Coach K on November 25, 2023, 08:27:33 PM
With the Jets? Of course. But I meant the entire world needs to burn if Jets fans have to watch an offense worse than this one next seasonIf being colassally disappointed is your pre requisite for the end of civilization we all should've died years ago lol
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 10:20:59 AM
The WMD pick is just looking so bad. Liked the prospect but it's clear they didn't plan on paying Huff and he's become a top 10 edge rusher in one offseason and JJ progressed.
Sure would be nice to have a 1st rd OL or especially WR considering that class .
Especially since WMD gets what 10 snaps a game and was a healthy scratch nearly the first month lol
JFM needs to be cut or traded for cap relief and get him more snaps if he's ever gonna develop
For tbe record I see an Aldon Smith ceiling in WMD but was also butthurt at the position given tbe capital
Gotta actually utilize it next yr lol
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 10:41:30 AM
Jermaine Johnson didn't do much last year, no one is saying that's a bad signing this year.
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 10:49:36 AM
If we don't re-sign Huff, WMD will be a good signing. He's flashing every game in limited time. I really think he slides into Huff's spot in 2024. I don't think Huff is here next year.I'm a fsu fan I was mad they didn't give JJ wnligj snaps last yr . Jj is a beast this yr
Jermaine Johnson didn't do much last year, no one is saying that's a bad signing this year.
Nobody ever bashed drafting JJ lol
I've made it clear I like WMD. But when you go all in on Rodgers with a limited window this is what you get
And letting Huff walk will make him look dumber because you had your WMD on the roster already lol
That's my point .
Post by: MBGreen on November 26, 2023, 10:52:54 AM
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 11:03:54 AM
Douglas drafts BPA every year. If WMD was at the top of their draft board, then he was the pick all along (once the OL run started). Maybe Rex Hogan is the problem.Well it's seemed to work out so well
For defense
Good thing he tied the offenses fate to 3 guys coming off injury on OL . 1 pushing 40, 1 proven to be innury prone and 1 who is now interior version of Becton
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 11:09:43 AM
Douglas drafts BPA every year. If WMD was at the top of their draft board, then he was the pick all along (once the OL run started). Maybe Rex Hogan is the problem.Yeah the story is it was WMD , Mayer , and Broderick Jones
In that case you can laugh at JD for blinking first for a QB the Packers didn't want and we were bidding against ourselves
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 26, 2023, 11:13:10 AM
The failures were how they built the offense with our other assets. And potentially how they evaluated Huff.
In retrospect, yes, JSN/Addison would have helped the Jets out more this year. But WMD could still help us out more long-term.
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 11:16:47 AM
I don't think you can really draft for need very often, and if WMD is a stud edge rusher, he's a good pick.My issue is not evaluating Huff properly hence you're spending a premium pick on the position with most depth on a roster witb a historically bad offense.
The failures were how they built the offense with our other assets. And potentially how they evaluated Huff.
In retrospect, yes, JSN/Addison would have helped the Jets out more this year. But WMD could still help us out more long-term.
But again like I said I think WMD has a Aldon Smith type ceiling so it's hard to completely clown him
But then you look at the offense and it's hard to defend lol
The real issue was doing the pick swap with GB imo
We literally negotiated against ourselves and if Jones was Here we'd have someone else on the field than Max Mitchell who had no business being paid to play football .
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 26, 2023, 11:23:18 AM
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 11:28:41 AM
Imagine if Douglas drafted Mayer.Let me be clear rofl I wasn't implying I'd draft Mayer over WMD
But Broderick Jones. Yes hahaahah
I love WMD so im not trying to make it sound like he's a bum but there is a case to be made why we forced ourself into that draft slot .
Post by: Badger on November 26, 2023, 11:36:20 AM
In retrospect, yes, JSN/Addison would have helped the Jets out more this year. But WMD could still help us out more long-term.
Coming into the draft, we had Wilson, Lazard, Davis, Hardman - all of whom were reasonably expected to have meaningful roles - so I can't beat us up too much for not going WR in the 1st. I wouldn't have complained if we did though. We didn't have multiple stars but it looked like solid depth.
Then Davis retired, Hardman was inexplicably underutilized, and Lazard proceeded to have what's likely going to be the worst year of his career.
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 11:37:23 AM
Salehs comments tell me this dude got paid and gave up (Lazard)
Coming into the draft, we had Wilson, Lazard, Davis, Hardman - all of whom were reasonably expected to have meaningful roles - so I can't beat us up too much for not going WR in the 1st. I wouldn't have complained if we did though. We didn't have multiple stars but it looked like solid depth.
Then Davis retired, Hardman was inexplicably underutilized, and Lazard proceeded to have what's likely going to be the worst year of his career.
bundle of sticks derriere playing soccer during practice
Infuriating lol
Post by: Badger on November 26, 2023, 11:38:22 AM
Salehs comments tell me this dude got paid and gave up (Lazard)Need Aaron at practice berating Lazard Whiplash-style.
bundle of sticks derriere playing soccer during practice
Infuriating lol
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 11:40:59 AM
Need Aaron at practice berating Lazard Whiplash-style.I told one of my friends that's the only explanation why he was actually decent in GB .
Rodgers was in his derriere lol
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 01:12:22 PM
I'm a fsu fan I was mad they didn't give JJ wnligj snaps last yr . Jj is a beast this yr
Nobody ever bashed drafting JJ lol
I've made it clear I like WMD. But when you go all in on Rodgers with a limited window this is what you get
And letting Huff walk will make him look dumber because you had your WMD on the roster already lol
That's my point .
Last year we only thought Huff was a situational pass rusher. This year he proved he can do enough to be a full time edge rusher. He had 3.5 sacks last year, admittedly in limited snaps, but he hadn't proven himself as an elite rusher until he got the snaps to do so this year. We can't say we already had our "WMD" because we didn't know if Huff could do anything besides rush on 3rd down.
Nothing matters except whether WMD develops into a good player. If he does, it's a great pick. If he doesn't, it's bad. I don't care if he plays a starting role this year, he's practicing for his 2nd year like JJ.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 26, 2023, 01:26:41 PM
And the Jets did zero (0) to help out their receiving corps once Davis retired and once it appeared Hardman couldn't play here.
Coming into the draft, we had Wilson, Lazard, Davis, Hardman - all of whom were reasonably expected to have meaningful roles - so I can't beat us up too much for not going WR in the 1st. I wouldn't have complained if we did though. We didn't have multiple stars but it looked like solid depth.
Then Davis retired, Hardman was inexplicably underutilized, and Lazard proceeded to have what's likely going to be the worst year of his career.
I thought Lazard was basically a slightly worse version of Davis with better health. Wish that were the case.
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 01:38:22 PM
Last year we only thought Huff was a situational pass rusher. This year he proved he can do enough to be a full time edge rusher. He had 3.5 sacks last year, admittedly in limited snaps, but he hadn't proven himself as an elite rusher until he got the snaps to do so this year. We can't say we already had our "WMD" because we didn't know if Huff could do anything besides rush on 3rd down.When you see the kid every day in practice and run a 9 man rotation and limit his snaps intentionally it's bad business in evaluation when you don't even give yourself the chance to see him in live games.
Nothing matters except whether WMD develops into a good player. If he does, it's a great pick. If he doesn't, it's bad. I don't care if he plays a starting role this year, he's practicing for his 2nd year like JJ.
We were deep even minus huff and paying JFM. No matter which way you cut it WMD was a luxury pick .
So yes I hope he reaches the ceiling I think he has but when Huff walks and becomes objectively elite it's a bad look when your goal next season is gutting a few key players on D to salvage the god awful job you did with offense
We likely lose Huff and JFM for cap reasons . So yeah, you can have the squirrel stashing nuts for winter argument, but like I said, the real crime was budging on the Rodgers trade capital
They can spin it however they want, but I simply don't believe Jones wouldn't have been the pick.had they not done the pick swap with GB in rd 1
It's all a moot point. I like the player, so im not gonna knock the kid
But ultimately, for someone who was a supposed OL guru, JD has arguably done his worst job with the OL.
My gripe is more asset mismanagement and OL neglect. WMD just happens to be at the center of that discussion .
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 01:41:54 PM
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 01:44:19 PM
The real question is whether you can blame a GM for player injuries.You can blame him for anchoring the OL with a nearly 40 yr old OL coming off a season ender
BECTON was clearly proven to be injury prone by last offseason .
AVT we thought it was an anomaly. Nope he's just interior Becton .
That's 2 out of 3 starters where we just put too many eggs in the basket .
Rodgers snapped his Achilles slipping on the yolk of said basket . If he didn't get injured week 1 he mos def wouldve been injured by now.
So yeah JD needs to eat some crow for the OL. Undoubtedly
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 01:46:02 PM
You can blame him for anchoring the OL with a nearly 40 yr old OL coming off a season ender
BECTON was clearly proven to be injury prone by last offseason .
AVT we thought it was an anomaly. Nope he's just interior Becton .
That's 2 out of 3 starters where we just put too many eggs in the basket .
Rodgers snapped his Achilles slipping on the yolk of said basket . If he didn't get injured week 1 he mos def wouldve been injured by now.
So yeah JD needs to eat some crow for the OL. Undoubtedly
Sorry, I was talking about draft picks.
Seeing that Duane Brown played pretty well, I think it was reasonable to expect after he had dmauegery and was healthy that he'd play at least as good. I guess the mistake there is not knowing where he was in recovery?
To me Douglas's biggest mistake has been overpaying free agents, but I don't know if that's the price of being a bad team.
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 01:50:56 PM
Sorry, I was talking about draft picks.I think BPA is only objectively smart when you have sustained success and 0 holes . Especially when your trying to go from mid tier to SB contender based off 1 QB acquisition. They thought Rodgers would mask these other deficiencies . Clearly didn't happen .
That hasn't been the case ever as long as I can remember lolol .
It is what it is . We will need to hope Rodgers can convince at least 1 starter quality OL and 1 WR2 or WR3 who is actually solid to come here on a slight discount. Letting Huff walk and JFM go would be required just to do that.
Then we need interior depth because the other DL Woods and Johnson are gone and Woods career is likely done. We need an AL Woods clone next to Q for Run d.
Then we literally need to draft nothing but OL and WRs
If we take a Safety or Linebacker or some wild excrement based off BPA
Joe Douglas can die in a fire.
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 01:53:09 PM
Question is where the rest of the cap space is coming from
I think JFM gone is a lock if we're serious about fixing the Offense.
Mosely may have to go as well
Anyone feel like Zaire Barnes can start?
Lol
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 01:54:16 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 01:57:32 PM
The one no Brainer move we all know is happening is Uzomah clears up 8 mil .
Question is where the rest of the cap space is coming from
I think JFM gone is a lock if we're serious about fixing the Offense.
Mosely may have to go as well
Anyone feel like Zaire Barnes can start?
Lol
The cap will go up anyway as it usually does, so that'll make some space.
Right now overthecap.com has us at about $31 million of cap space for 2024 as is.
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 01:59:31 PM
The cap will go up anyway as it usually does, so that'll make some space.And we need like 3 OL 1 DT 2 WRs
Right now ovwrthecap.com has us at about $31 million of cap space for 2024 as is.
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets
So let's make this clear
JD needs to draft starters in rd 1 and 3
Not rotational see you in 2025 guys
Post by: Johnny English on November 26, 2023, 02:03:32 PM
JD needs to draft starters in rd 1 and 3
Well..... someone does. Given his track record, are you trusting Douglas to do it?
Post by: Badger on November 26, 2023, 02:03:56 PM
Maybe we can get in the top 10 and trade back to recoup a pick. If we wish hard enough it'll happen one day.Going back from 10 to something like 17 could get us a mid 2nd.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 02:04:01 PM
And we need like 3 OL 1 DT 2 WRs
So let's make this clear
JD needs to draft starters in rd 1 and 3
Not rotational see you in 2025 guys
No doubt he has his work cut out for him.
We can open up some more space by giving Laken a paycut, pushing off some pain with post June 1 cuts, and cutting Uzomah. Like the Saints proved, you can go as all-in-one as you want with the cap, but you eventually have to pay the piper.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 02:04:47 PM
Well..... someone does. Given his track record, are you trusting Douglas to do it?
Unless we get rid of Rodgers you will have to and like it.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 02:06:30 PM
Going back from 10 to something like 17 could get us a mid 2nd.
I'm more ambitious, assuming a 6-8 pick.
Post by: Badger on November 26, 2023, 02:07:17 PM
I'm more ambitious, assuming a 6-8 pick.Going back from 6 to 16 could get us a high 2nd.
Post by: Johnny English on November 26, 2023, 02:08:20 PM
Unless we get rid of Rodgers you will have to and like it.
Why? Rodgers isn't tied to the GM or the head coach, neither of them are his guys.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 26, 2023, 02:10:50 PM
Why? Rodgers isn't tied to the GM or the head coach, neither of them are his guys.You think they'll fire Hackett? Otherwise what HC will want to have an OC forced on him? They want to try one more year with Rodgers, but I think they believe Hackett will be fine with Rodgers at QB. Rodgers and the rest of the Jets staff are tied at the hip.
Post by: Badger on November 26, 2023, 02:11:47 PM
Why? Rodgers isn't tied to the GM or the head coach, neither of them are his guys.They brought him here. Change them and Rodgers' status/commitment for 2024 becomes a question mark.
Post by: Johnny English on November 26, 2023, 02:19:31 PM
You think they'll fire Hackett? Otherwise what HC will want to have an OC forced on him? They want to try one more year with Rodgers, but I think they believe Hackett will be fine with Rodgers at QB. Rodgers and the rest of the Jets staff are tied at the hip.
I didn't say anything about changing the head coach.
As I have said before, I don't think there's any difficulty with replacing Douglas at this point. You hire a new GM on the understanding that he has Rodgers, Saleh and Hackett for the 2024 season, after that it's entirely up to him what he does with any of them. I think lots of candidates would love a free swing at a potential Super Bowl run in their first year and the freedom to sweep clean if it doesn't work, it's a no lose situation for them.
Post by: MBGreen on November 26, 2023, 02:41:07 PM
I didn't say anything about changing the head coach.You clearly don't remember Idzik hire
As I have said before, I don't think there's any difficulty with replacing Douglas at this point. You hire a new GM on the understanding that he has Rodgers, Saleh and Hackett for the 2024 season, after that it's entirely up to him what he does with any of them. I think lots of candidates would love a free swing at a potential Super Bowl run in their first year and the freedom to sweep clean if it doesn't work, it's a no lose situation for them.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 26, 2023, 02:48:51 PM
To me Douglas's biggest mistake has been overpaying free agents, but I don't know if that's the price of being a bad team.
Remember his first couple of years when everyone was praising him for not going over his FA contract ceiling?
Post by: Johnny English on November 26, 2023, 02:55:48 PM
You clearly don't remember Idzik hire
Obviously I do. This is a completely different and somewhat unique situation, because we have a QB with an incredibly short shelf life and then we're doing a rebuild no matter what. That wasn't remotely the case when we hired Idzik.
Post by: MBGreen on November 26, 2023, 07:01:30 PM
Obviously I do. This is a completely different and somewhat unique situation, because we have a QB with an incredibly short shelf life and then we're doing a rebuild no matter what. That wasn't remotely the case when we hired Idzik.
You don't hire a GM and keep a lameduck coach. It's dumb, we've done it once when we hired Idzik, we shouldn't do it again.
So no, this isn't a unique situation. Either you're keeping both or firing both....anything else and it won't end well (again). You and I both know no GM will want this job without picking his own HC, and he probably won't want to be at Rodgers' mercy. So as much as you want to get rid of Douglas, you'll be downgrading to some inexperienced doofus who isn't afraid of getting canned.
And as far as Rodgers goes....i've seen 4 snaps, so we really don't know what we have, and now he's coming off a significant injury at 40 years of age.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 26, 2023, 09:21:07 PM
Maybe if we fire Saleh and Hackett, he won't feel like learning a new system and trusting new people and he will retire. Maybe he doesn't care that much. My guess is he thinks he can turn things around with his guys, including Saleh and Hackett. Maybe he is OK if we fire people. Maybe not.
Considering his position and potential upside, I am fine bending to Rodgers' will for another year within reason. There is a path to success next year with a few good moves.
The issue with keeping Saleh and JD (other than that both may be bad) is that they are motivated to mortgage part of the future for non security. But considering our QB will be 40, there is reason to do what it takes to win next year over the future.
There is zero chance they fire Douglas and keep Saleh. That would be idiotic. Either start new or don't. Or keep Douglas and replace Saleh. It is probably more Douglas fault than Saleh's but the hierarchy makes it untenable to keep Saleh and fire JD.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 26, 2023, 09:48:50 PM
He started out and stayed at the mean that Rex's teams regressed to. If he is taking more ownership of the offense than Rex is then he's making the wrong decisions. If he's not allowed or not willing to make changes on offense until it's way too late then it doesn't matter that he's here.
We've documented enough of the reasons why Douglas shouldn't keep his job that I'm not going to bother here.
If this staff is intact and in place next season, I don't see a reason to be optimistic as of right now.
Post by: Badger on November 26, 2023, 10:24:58 PM
It is a VERY unique situation. This season is going the way of a season where you clean house afterward. But nobody knows what Rodgers thinks. He nearly retired this offseason.I keep picturing a column A where we keep Douglas/Saleh/Hackett/Rodgers and a column B where everything is a question mark, and I'm not convinced column B is better.
Maybe if we fire Saleh and Hackett, he won't feel like learning a new system and trusting new people and he will retire. Maybe he doesn't care that much. My guess is he thinks he can turn things around with his guys, including Saleh and Hackett. Maybe he is OK if we fire people. Maybe not.
Considering his position and potential upside, I am fine bending to Rodgers' will for another year within reason. There is a path to success next year with a few good moves.
The issue with keeping Saleh and JD (other than that both may be bad) is that they are motivated to mortgage part of the future for non security. But considering our QB will be 40, there is reason to do what it takes to win next year over the future.
There is zero chance they fire Douglas and keep Saleh. That would be idiotic. Either start new or don't. Or keep Douglas and replace Saleh. It is probably more Douglas fault than Saleh's but the hierarchy makes it untenable to keep Saleh and fire JD.
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 11:22:11 PM
I keep picturing a column A where we keep Douglas/Saleh/Hackett/Rodgers and a column B where everything is a question mark, and I'm not convinced column B is better.What competent GM would want to come here ?
We'd be plucking another scouting or personnel director from somewhere or hiring a mediocre retread who's taken a few years off and not by choice
Everyone else in the building has waved the white flag on the season and it's beyond obvious .
We as fans should too . We're already having the offseason salvage discussion lol .
This job isn't as attractive as people would imagine it is .
We've got a good defense . Congratulations . So do like 5 other teams who aren't in a suicide pact with a 40 yr old QB. The youth movement won't be too young going into yr 3 next yr and will likely be plotting their escape unless we make the playoffs in 24.
If we lose out burning it all down isn't off the table . But the most realistic scenario is everyone stays and a playoff mandate is made apparent to everyone in the building regardless what the media says lol
We will exhaust all options so if we do blow it up nobody can say we didn't give them a fair shake . Hence this regime buying themselves time with Rodgers. If they can't be a contender next yr nobody here deserves to keep their job . Plain and simple .
The most Jets thing ever is Rodgers gets hurt again in December and retires then we go scorched earth
Nothing they've done shows they deserve anything but again they bought themselves time with Rodgers so their fate is solely tied to him .
This is a sad car wreck . Let's see if they can walk away unscathed or we need to put the sheets over them next December lol
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 26, 2023, 11:30:59 PM
What competent GM would want to come here ?
We'd be plucking another scouting or personnel director from somewhere or hiring a mediocre retread who's taken a few years off and not by choice
Well yea, the talented ones have jobs.
Post by: Coach K on November 26, 2023, 11:37:32 PM
Well yea, the talented ones have jobs.Let me rephrase
Nobody wants to be in a power struggle with Rodgers or be the guy that told Rodgers to freak off if he insisted on staying
Especially a greenhorn GM.
This regime is married to him and if they blow it up and Rodgers stays its a mess for a plethora of reasons
And we still wouldn't be bad enough to to get a top 3 pick . Not unless we literally lose out and teams like CAR ARI NE end up with 5 wins . And that ain't happening . Even if we lose out NE has 3 wins.
Does this regime deserve to get nuked? Probably
But instead of swinging and missing on another top 5 QB prospect JD decided to hitch his wagon to Rodgers
Woody don't give a excrement because there's gonna be asses in seats and media deals out the derriere unless Rodgers retires
Plain and simple. Cleaning house won't happen unless this gets even uglier for the rest of the year and even then I doubt it ..
Rodgers retiring would be the only way they don't make it to 2024 lol.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 26, 2023, 11:51:18 PM
Let me rephrase
Nobody wants to be in a power struggle with Rodgers or be the guy that told Rodgers to freak off if he insisted on staying
Especially a greenhorn GM.
This regime is married to him and if they blow it up and Rodgers stays its a mess for a plethora of reasons
And we still wouldn't be bad enough to to get a top 3 pick . Not unless we literally lose out and teams like CAR ARI NE end up with 5 wins . And that ain't happening . Even if we lose out NE has 3 wins.
Does this regime deserve to get nuked? Probably
But instead of swinging and missing on another top 5 QB prospect JD decided to hitch his wagon to Rodgers
Woody don't give a excrement because there's gonna be asses in seats and media deals out the derriere unless Rodgers retires
Plain and simple. Cleaning house won't happen unless this gets even uglier for the rest of the year and even then I doubt it ..
Rodgers retiring would be the only way they don't make it to 2024 lol.
What pisses me off is that we know Douglas is going to mortgage the future he won't be here for. I can't wait until he gives up a premium pick for Davante Adams instead of going after someone like Tee Higgins, Tyler Boyd (Cincinnati can't keep both), or Mike Evans because Rodgers needs his besties around him.
Post by: Coach K on November 27, 2023, 12:13:51 AM
What pisses me off is that we know Douglas is going to mortgage the future he won't be here for. I can't wait until he gives up a premium pick for Davante Adams instead of going after someone like Tee Higgins, Tyler Boyd (Cincinnati can't keep both), or Mike Evans because Rodgers needs his besties around him.Lol I just think cap wise it may not be feasible .
I think davante would be 22 mil against the cap and the raiders would legit have to eat 40 mil in dead cap. No team is gonna do that . His deals already been restructured too so giving up capital for that at his age would be suicide and tell us he chopped his balls off and handed them to Rodgers lol
He'll maybe it's the only reason Rodgers took a paycut
Who knows wtf is going on at this point
But yes I'd easily sign a FA of the ilk you mentioned over surrendering draft capital . Especially since Evans looks better at his age than Davante imo lol
And either rofl the bengals guys would be worth it especially in FA.
I just dont have many expectations until the offseason because there's a few ways to go about this but I've got no idea wtf they're actually thinking right now other than they want to fast forward to April lol
Post by: Coach K on November 27, 2023, 12:22:09 AM
Then JD has to draft starters in rd 1 and 3.
Then we need our field to not sacrifice players weekly lol .
I think the fact nobody has faith in Hackett is what seems so bad this season . (Not that he's given us reason to have any lol)
Honestly it could be turned around fast. Our OL is just the worst I've ever seen in my life so it's hard to judge Hackett. I feel like they've tried things but nobody blocks so anything Xs and Os is literally a moot ppint when it gets blown up in seconds
Combine that with the fact if they do block nobody gets open .
Combine that with the fact if the other two things actually happen they don't catch it
Combine that with the fact our QBs aside from Rodgers read fields as well as Mayweather would read Tolstoy and Asimov
Yeah its a freaking dickless sideshow circus right now
Which is kinda why I went on a bender about JDs handling of OL .
The chain reaction from that unit just makes everything else suffer
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 27, 2023, 12:23:45 AM
Lol I just think cap wise it may not be feasible .
I think davante would be 22 mil against the cap and the raiders would legit have to eat 40 mil in dead cap. No team is gonna do that . His deals already been restructured too so giving up capital for that at his age would be suicide and tell us he chopped his balls off and handed them to Rodgers lol
He'll maybe it's the only reason Rodgers took a paycut
Who knows wtf is going on at this point
But yes I'd easily sign a FA of the ilk you mentioned over surrendering draft capital . Especially since Evans looks better at his age than Davante imo lol
And either rofl the bengals guys would be worth it especially in FA.
I just dont have many expectations until the offseason because there's a few ways to go about this but I've got no idea wtf they're actually thinking right now other than they want to fast forward to April lol
Out of the three I'd take Tyler Boyd but that's just my homer tendencies showing through. Any of those three would be an amazing pairing with Garret.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 27, 2023, 09:08:44 AM
Remember his first couple of years when everyone was praising him for not going over his FA contract ceiling?
That was mostly MB.
Post by: MBGreen on November 27, 2023, 09:56:04 AM
That was mostly MB.
optimism is my weakness...i'll do better next time.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 27, 2023, 10:11:41 AM
optimism is my weakness...i'll do better next time.
It's the Jets man. They're up 35-0 in Superbowl 2025 with 30 seconds left a freaking meteor will hit Earth and wipe out civilization,
Post by: Libero_2 on November 27, 2023, 10:25:28 AM
What competent GM would want to come here ?
We'd be plucking another scouting or personnel director from somewhere or hiring a mediocre retread who's taken a few years off and not by choice
Everyone else in the building has waved the white flag on the season and it's beyond obvious .
We as fans should too . We're already having the offseason salvage discussion lol .
This job isn't as attractive as people would imagine it is .
We've got a good defense . Congratulations . So do like 5 other teams who aren't in a suicide pact with a 40 yr old QB. The youth movement won't be too young going into yr 3 next yr and will likely be plotting their escape unless we make the playoffs in 24.
If we lose out burning it all down isn't off the table . But the most realistic scenario is everyone stays and a playoff mandate is made apparent to everyone in the building regardless what the media says lol
We will exhaust all options so if we do blow it up nobody can say we didn't give them a fair shake . Hence this regime buying themselves time with Rodgers. If they can't be a contender next yr nobody here deserves to keep their job . Plain and simple .
The most Jets thing ever is Rodgers gets hurt again in December and retires then we go scorched earth
Nothing they've done shows they deserve anything but again they bought themselves time with Rodgers so their fate is solely tied to him .
This is a sad car wreck . Let's see if they can walk away unscathed or we need to put the sheets over them next December lol
This is the reality.
Assuming Rodgers is here for 24, we either keep the leaders we have in place, or fire them in favor of guys no one else would hire into those roles because if they have options, they aren’t picking the one where the owner mandates they go all in for their one season with Rodgers, which all but necessitates the 2025 1st being traded for assets this year, either a lineman or a WR or another top draft pick in 2024. Which of course means no chance of getting the QB in 25 after Rodgers walks away.
It’s run it back season in 24, and we have to pray Rodgers is as valuable an asset on the field as we all hoped. Because you are right, we could easily contend for the postseason with some health and actually average offensive playmakers around Wilson and Hall and on the OL. Adding 4 players isn’t a monumental task, especially when you should expect a top 10 pick to be one of them, and the 2025 1st to lead to another one.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 27, 2023, 04:11:31 PM
I don't see a reason to keep Saleh, tbh.
He started out and stayed at the mean that Rex's teams regressed to. If he is taking more ownership of the offense than Rex is then he's making the wrong decisions. If he's not allowed or not willing to make changes on offense until it's way too late then it doesn't matter that he's here.
We've documented enough of the reasons why Douglas shouldn't keep his job that I'm not going to bother here.
If this staff is intact and in place next season, I don't see a reason to be optimistic as of right now.
Saleh has made plenty of adjustments to the offense. Nothing he did or can do is saving this offense, due to the personnel. Only thing left for him to do is fire Hackett and I don’t think anyone can confidently say he has the ability to make that decision.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 27, 2023, 04:12:33 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 27, 2023, 04:19:15 PM
Saleh has made plenty of adjustments to the offense. Nothing he did or can do is saving this offense, due to the personnel. Only thing left for him to do is fire Hackett and I don’t think anyone can confidently say he has the ability to make that decision.
You seem to think I'm only talking about this season and not including the player and staff personnel choices that preceded this season, at least some of which he would have been on-board with, which is an issue that I have raised multiple times. Why would you think I'm only talking about this season or that I wasn't including the personnel choices that led to this season?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 27, 2023, 04:56:22 PM
Saleh has made plenty of adjustments to the offense.
Like what?
Post by: MBGreen on November 27, 2023, 05:39:41 PM
Like what?Calling out Breece
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 27, 2023, 05:50:11 PM
Like what?
What, you don't think benching Cobb and Lazard are huge moves?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 27, 2023, 08:57:10 PM
What, you don't think benching Cobb and Lazard are huge moves?
Ok what is the move everyone wanted to see?
Post by: Libero_2 on November 27, 2023, 09:04:33 PM
Ok what is the move everyone wanted to see?
Wins.
Nothing else matters. While losses pile up, irrationality reigns supreme. How many times have we all acknowledged there are no real moves left and we are fucked until the year ends and we can get healthy and make changes?
Yet 3 weeks from now after getting our asses handed to us by the Dolphins again, and we are 5-9 or worse, 4-10, people will be even more loudly screaming to fire everyone and send Rodgers to Siberia so we can start over. Even though we all know that’s exactly what’s in front of us already, and no rational fan right now is predicting us to win the next 3 games anyways.
But those losses will add up, breeding more anger and more frustration and more irrationality. I say all of this to say I’m sure I will be leading the “fire everyone!” Charge in two weeks anyways.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 27, 2023, 09:04:43 PM
You seem to think I'm only talking about this season and not including the player and staff personnel choices that preceded this season, at least some of which he would have been on-board with, which is an issue that I have raised multiple times. Why would you think I'm only talking about this season or that I wasn't including the personnel choices that led to this season?
The man can only bench ZW or fire MLF so many times
He also is forced to play musical chairs at OL for every single game
I’m honestly not sure what else a HC can do in this situation. Doesn’t matter if it’s Saleh or someone else
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 27, 2023, 09:05:27 PM
Wins.
Nothing else matters. While losses pile up, irrationality reigns supreme.
Damn, shoulda ran the Win play last week
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 27, 2023, 09:24:17 PM
Ok what is the move everyone wanted to see?
I called for weeks to put Breece and Cook in the backfield together. They did it a couple of times over the couple of games before this week, and they were successful. Yet, those plays disappeared from the playcalling--even in the same game. Whose idea is it to stop doing something that works? If it's Hackett's, then it's Bob's job to tell him to do it again till they stop them. If it's Saleh's, then he's a dumbass.
How about some Breece runs outside the tackles? Nah, let's just go up the gut for the 400th time.
Why is Dalvin Cook getting snaps over Abanikanda? Oh, pass pro, right? Can't remember who, but someone posted Cook allowed two sacks this week.
Those are just a few things. So I'll flip it to you. What are the "plenty of adjustments" Saleh's made that you claimed?
Post by: reuben on November 27, 2023, 10:13:24 PM
Like what?
Those are just a few things. So I'll flip it to you. What are the "plenty of adjustments" Saleh's made that you claimed?
OK, for the sake of conversation, this is a list of adjustments I've seen the offense make throughout the year. I'm not including offensive line permutations. Nitpick as you see fit.
1. Working Xavier Gipson into the game (One snap for Gip in the first three weeks, 38 over the next three, >58% the last four weeks).
2. Dumping the Dalvin Cook Experiment after week 4. (<20% of snaps from week 5 to week 10).
3. Focusing more heavily on Garrett Wilson (One game with double-digit targets in the first five games, one game with single-digit targets in the last six).
4. I got the sense that Zach started making more and more pre-snap adjustments after the first three weeks.
5. I forget the game, but we came out running a hurry-up offense in one game. It's something that a lot of people have crowed about because Zach does well in the two-minute drill. It was minimally effective.
6. Cutting Michael Carter.
7. Demoting CJ Uzomah (queynte played three snaps in week 12 and still managed a false start. Unreal).
8. Benching Zach Wilson.
9. Moving Hackett up to the box.
10. Benching Allen Lazard for Jason Brownlee.
These are offensive moves I think were made at the head coach level. A lot of things I wanted to see happen have happened. Nothing has helped. I think one of the last available options is to change the playcaller. I think a subordinate will get the plays called in faster, because Hackett seems to waste ten seconds shaking a magic 8 ball every play. The plays themselves will still be vanilla excrement but at least they'll come in on time.
Post by: Badger on November 27, 2023, 10:17:54 PM
Damn, shoulda ran the Win play last weekThe Annexation of Puerto Rico
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 28, 2023, 07:57:15 AM
OK, for the sake of conversation, this is a list of adjustments I've seen the offense make throughout the year. I'm not including offensive line permutations. Nitpick as you see fit.
1. Working Xavier Gipson into the game (One snap for Gip in the first three weeks, 38 over the next three, >58% the last four weeks).
2. Dumping the Dalvin Cook Experiment after week 4. (<20% of snaps from week 5 to week 10).
3. Focusing more heavily on Garrett Wilson (One game with double-digit targets in the first five games, one game with single-digit targets in the last six).
4. I got the sense that Zach started making more and more pre-snap adjustments after the first three weeks.
5. I forget the game, but we came out running a hurry-up offense in one game. It's something that a lot of people have crowed about because Zach does well in the two-minute drill. It was minimally effective.
6. Cutting Michael Carter.
7. Demoting CJ Uzomah (queynte played three snaps in week 12 and still managed a false start. Unreal).
8. Benching Zach Wilson.
9. Moving Hackett up to the box.
10. Benching Allen Lazard for Jason Brownlee.
These are offensive moves I think were made at the head coach level. A lot of things I wanted to see happen have happened. Nothing has helped. I think one of the last available options is to change the playcaller. I think a subordinate will get the plays called in faster, because Hackett seems to waste ten seconds shaking a magic 8 ball every play. The plays themselves will still be vanilla excrement but at least they'll come in on time.
FTR, I was just calling out SFD because he was pinging me.
I'll give you the benching, and maybe even pushing Hackett upstairs (though that and benching Zach were likely more to do with being sick of hearing the media and fans bark about inconsequential moves). The rest I don't see as anything Saleh's had a hand in and none of the above is that big a deal.
Honestly, I don't know how much Saleh can do. I do think he should insist Hackett stick with things when they're working, and demand he get more creative, even if it means getting ideas from other staff members or even players. You can't tell me he takes advice well when you have Rodgers on the sidelines rolling his eyes.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 28, 2023, 08:22:55 AM
Ok what is the move everyone wanted to see?
Witchcraft
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 04, 2023, 09:54:11 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 04, 2023, 10:30:38 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 05, 2023, 11:04:52 AM
Great draft pick
Post by: Heismanberg on December 05, 2023, 11:51:40 AM
https://x.com/playlikeajet1/status/1731880508861087937?s=42&t=oQHlTr9_OCVIYXOt5gHlYQ
Great draft pick
What's interesting about that is Geno wasn't going to play until Sanchez got hurt in the preseason because Rex was an idiot
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2023, 02:02:23 PM
What's interesting about that is Geno wasn't going to play until Sanchez got hurt in the preseason because Rex was an idiotI still believe Rex was given a mandate to have a real competition and play Geno with the starters.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 06, 2023, 02:13:48 PM
I still believe Rex was given a mandate to have a real competition and play Geno with the starters.Biggest what-if in recent Jets history is what if Geno plays well after his strong 2015 camp and has a similar year to what Fitz had.
Or if Geno continued his reportedly strong 2016 camp and they didn't bother signing Fitz to that 1-year deal.
Geno isn't great, but he's better than any QB we've had since Fitz's one good year in 2015. Geno probably would have had success with Marshall and Decker and Quincy, too.
Post by: reuben on December 06, 2023, 02:30:32 PM
Biggest what-if in recent Jets history is what if Geno plays well after his strong 2015 camp and has a similar year to what Fitz had.
Or if Geno continued his reportedly strong 2016 camp and they didn't bother signing Fitz to that 1-year deal.
Geno isn't great, but he's better than any QB we've had since Fitz's one good year in 2015. Geno probably would have had success with Marshall and Decker and Quincy, too.
I don't think so. I think he needed to float around the league and learn before he was going to be successful. I wouldn't be shocked if Sam Darnold has the same career trajectory. Jets fans will then chime in with "WE NEVER SHUDDA MOVED ON FROM HIM," misunderstanding that the moving on is an integral element of the eventual success.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 06, 2023, 02:42:04 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 06, 2023, 02:58:50 PM
Geno got his jaw broken by one of his teammates and the locker room thought he deserved it. He wasn’t going to be successful here.
Enemkpali truther
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2023, 03:32:39 PM
I don't think so. I think he needed to float around the league and learn before he was going to be successful. I wouldn't be shocked if Sam Darnold has the same career trajectory. Jets fans will then chime in with "WE NEVER SHUDDA MOVED ON FROM HIM," misunderstanding that the moving on is an integral element of the eventual success.
You’re likely right, but Geno is still the best QB we’ve drafted out of all our recent top QB picks. Sanchez, Darnold, Wilson.
Also we moved on from Geno for… Josh McCown? He didn’t get a real shot here.
Don’t forget the perfect game. #NeverForget
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2023, 11:13:05 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 01, 2024, 11:58:17 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 01, 2024, 11:59:47 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2024, 10:53:36 AM
https://x.com/fbgchase/status/1741822043077636250?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2024, 10:53:46 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2024, 11:01:56 AM
The Jets are going to be the first team in NFL history to rank 28th or worse in points scored in 5 straight seasons.
https://x.com/fbgchase/status/1741822043077636250?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
That's a really bullshit stat though. Pre 1976 it was impossible to do as there weren't 28 teams in the league, 1976-1995 there were 28 teams exactly so you'd have to finish bottom every single year to do this. If you calculate it proportionately we are not the only team to finish in the bottom 15% of the league on points scored in 5 straight seasons.
Post by: reuben on January 02, 2024, 03:38:13 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 02, 2024, 04:26:14 PM
I'd love to see a shot of that hallway from Hard Knocks where they were going to display a key moment from each game this season. I bet the last five entries are just Ziggy comic strips taped to the wall.Hahahaha
Post by: Badger on January 02, 2024, 05:13:21 PM
I'd love to see a shot of that hallway from Hard Knocks where they were going to display a key moment from each game this season. I bet the last five entries are just Ziggy comic strips taped to the wall.I feel bad for the social media team that has to squeeze every drop of content out of a Breece Hall 12 yard run.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 06, 2024, 08:22:00 PM
Very important that we win this extremely serious game
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 08, 2024, 10:15:28 AM
2019 - 31st
2020 - 32nd
2021 - 28th
2022 - 29th
2023 - 29th
Jets are the first team to rank 28th or worst in scoring in 5 straight seasons.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 08, 2024, 10:16:02 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2024, 10:49:07 AM
i'm watching other franchises win games and make the playoffs with backup QBs, while our regime makes dumbfuck excuses and shows zero accountability. Our OL coach "did a great job"? On what freaking planet?! freak you, Saleh.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 08, 2024, 10:51:58 AM
the only real truth i've learned from this tumultuous season is that this team is definitely cooked if Rodgers goes down at any point in 2024.
It depends on who our backup is in 2024. If we have someone like Brissett as a backup, we'll be OK. It's certainly a step down, but we didn't have anyone that could hold the fort.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2024, 10:53:42 AM
the only real truth i've learned from this tumultuous season is that this team is definitely cooked if Rodgers goes down at any point in 2024.
i'm watching other franchises win games and make the playoffs with backup QBs, while our regime makes dumbfuck excuses and shows zero accountability. Our OL coach "did a great job"? On what freaking planet?! freak you, Saleh.
What if Rodgers is cooked?
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2024, 10:55:02 AM
What if Rodgers is cooked?
then Saleh/Douglas should leave town on their own.
Make no mistake..Rodgers being cooked is a real possibility.
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2024, 11:12:46 AM
the only real truth i've learned from this tumultuous season is that this team is definitely cooked if Rodgers goes down at any point in 2024.
i'm watching other franchises win games and make the playoffs with backup QBs, while our regime makes dumbfuck excuses and shows zero accountability. Our OL coach "did a great job"? On what freaking planet?! freak you, Saleh.
"Other franchises" (one team)
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2024, 11:33:05 AM
The Vikes and Colts were in meaningful games right up until week 18....so yes, "Other Franchises (multiple teams)"
"Other franchises" (one team)
You can probably throw the Bengals in there too
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 09, 2024, 08:55:08 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2024, 08:59:09 AM
The Vikings was not in a meaningful game week 18. They needed a miracle and it came nowhere close to happening.
the point was...they weren't officially eliminated, which means their week 18 game still meant something. The outcome is irrelevant.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2024, 09:11:09 AM
the point was...they weren't officially eliminated, which means their week 18 game still meant something. The outcome is irrelevant.
The Vikings finished with the same record as us.
Their backup situation proved to be about as shitty as ours. Dobbs got unnecessary hype for a couple weeks. It was the NFL's Linsanity moment.
Colts and Browns are the examples we can point our finger at.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 09:35:58 AM
The Vikings finished with the same record as us.
Their backup situation proved to be about as shitty as ours. Dobbs got unnecessary hype for a couple weeks. It was the NFL's Linsanity moment.
Colts and Browns are the examples we can point our finger at.
Steelers
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2024, 09:47:22 AM
Steelers
Steelers have one of the greatest coaches of all-time and they got extremely lucky to end the season.
Cincinnati with a backup QB and Baltimore with all of their starters out. The Seattle win was just classic Tomlin.
And as good as Tomlin is, he couldn't even overcome how shitty Mitch Trubisky is. They were 0-3 with him as a starter.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 09:52:19 AM
Steelers have one of the greatest coaches of all-time and they got extremely lucky to end the season.
Cincinnati with a backup QB and Baltimore with all of their starters out. The Seattle win was just classic Tomlin.
And as good as Tomlin is, he couldn't even overcome how shitty Mitch Trubisky is. They were 0-3 with him as a starter.
3-0 with Mason Rudolph is still 3-0 with Mason Rudolph.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2024, 09:53:52 AM
3-0 with Mason Rudolph is still 3-0 with Mason Rudolph.
This isn't even Rudolph's biggest accomplishment in life...he used to bang Genie Bouchard.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 09:54:53 AM
This isn't even Rudolph's biggest accomplishment in life...he used to bang Genie Bouchard.
Why do you know that?
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2024, 09:57:06 AM
Why do you know that?
I'm fuelled by useless facts and Arbys beef n cheddars
plus JE and i have her house on video surveillance.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2024, 10:09:45 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 10:21:21 AM
Mason Rudolph was actually really good down the stretch.
Thank you for agreeing that a team can win with their backup if properly coached.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2024, 10:54:45 AM
Thank you for agreeing that a team can win with their backup if properly coached.
Or maybe he’s just better than Tim Boyle and Trevor Semen?
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 10:57:28 AM
Or maybe he’s just better than Tim Boyle and Trevor Semen?Why do you think those points are mutually exclusive?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2024, 10:59:49 AM
Why do you think those points are mutually exclusive?
Because those guys are going to stink no matter who’s coaching?
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 11:22:12 AM
Because those guys are going to stink no matter who’s coaching?No one was ever arguing a better coached team could have won with Tim Boyle.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2024, 12:50:34 PM
Post by: Badger on January 09, 2024, 07:35:53 PM
Steelers have one of the greatest coaches of all-time and they got extremely lucky to end the season.
Cincinnati with a backup QB and Baltimore with all of their starters out. The Seattle win was just classic Tomlin.
And as good as Tomlin is, he couldn't even overcome how shitty Mitch Trubisky is. They were 0-3 with him as a starter.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8VqDvVL/
*They did not win the North but the meme stands
Post by: Badger on January 09, 2024, 07:38:03 PM
Why do you know that?MB is Titty Rain Man
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2024, 07:58:30 PM
MB is Titty Rain ManI am a Leni Klum fan, you are Jets fans.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2024, 12:05:44 PM
Post by: Badger on January 10, 2024, 12:16:29 PM
https://x.com/ustadium/status/1744933121387344126?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkgWe are the alpha and the omega
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 10, 2024, 12:17:49 PM
https://x.com/ustadium/status/1744933121387344126?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Full of gas, no break
Post by: Coach K on January 10, 2024, 11:34:08 PM
We're gonna have to overpay for any offensive FA lol
Let's pray Carter gets canned before FA
Post by: MBGreen on January 11, 2024, 06:56:46 AM
I hate having a pacifist for a HC.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 11, 2024, 09:42:34 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 11, 2024, 10:22:16 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 30, 2024, 04:03:16 AM
Mac Jones vented to a #Jets staff member about how the #Patriots handled his situation and was "jealous" about how the #Jets were upfront with Zach Wilson (NY Post).
Jones was so frustrated with the Patriots’ lack of communication that he told a Jets staffer he appreciated how they handled Wilson’s situation.
Jones reportedly found out he was a healthy scratch for Week 18 when the team released the inactive list — and his communication with former New England head coach Bill Belichick was non-existent by that point.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 30, 2024, 11:58:52 AM
Post by: Badger on January 30, 2024, 12:29:11 PM
Patriots QB jealous of Jets was not a headline I expected to ever read.Very much a "grass is greener" moment.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 06:58:15 AM
https://theathletic.com/5238599/2024/01/31/jets-aaron-rodgers-robert-saleh-season-collapse/?source=user_shared_article
Post by: bojanglesman on January 31, 2024, 07:11:43 AM
This is a must read...and it's horrifying. You guys might need a stiff drink while reading this.paywall and I'm too cheap to care.
https://theathletic.com/5238599/2024/01/31/jets-aaron-rodgers-robert-saleh-season-collapse/?source=user_shared_article
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 07:12:57 AM
paywall and I'm too cheap to care.
Trust me...you'll care after reading it.
I'll post the entire article in a few mins.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 07:18:06 AM
Quote
Robert Saleh saved the picture on his phone: Aaron Rodgers in a No. 8 New York Jets jersey carrying the American flag as he ran out of the tunnel for the season opener.
That night, Sept. 11, MetLife Stadium was as loud as ever for a Jets game, the fans cheering for Rodgers and what he represented for a tortured franchise. Saleh sometimes shares that photo with others to remind them what the Jets were supposed to be in 2023, before Rodgers suffered a torn Achilles four plays into New York’s first offensive drive of the season.
The injury forced the Jets to recalibrate their expectations, Super Bowl aspirations replaced by a much lower bar: seven wins. That would be enough to get them to 2024, when Rodgers would return.
The goal was no longer the playoffs. It was survival.
New York met that seven-win goal, but losing Rodgers exposed problems latent in the operation — the biggest of which may have been a belief that the quarterback’s play and persona could paper over flaws within the coaching staff, offensive personnel and the team’s culture.
To better understand the issues that contributed to another failed Jets season, The Athletic spoke to 30 sources in and around the organization, some of whom were granted anonymity to speak freely about the inner workings of the team without reprisal. Those sources described a team riddled with excuse-making, a paranoid head coach, an ill-equipped offensive coordinator and an organizational tunnel vision on the quarterback that rubbed some teammates wrong.
The Jets declined The Athletic’s request for comment. Rodgers did not respond to a text requesting comment.
In an oft-repeated conflict at Florham Park, a star-studded defense that kept New York in games grew frustrated that the offense couldn’t find a way to put up more points. And offensive players felt like Rodgers’ hand-picked offensive coordinator, Nathaniel Hackett, failed to adjust after losing his quarterback and didn’t put them in positions to succeed. The Jets lost five games by 20 or more points and extended the longest playoff drought in the four major North American professional sports to 13 years.
“It’s just such a f—ing mess,” one Jets coach said. “Something has to change.”
Rodgers sat down at a long conference table on Aug. 31 surrounded by reporters. Years earlier, Brett Favre sat at the same table in the same room, the former Packers star having become a Jet because Rodgers was ready to take over in Green Bay.
“I hope that’s the only thing that’s deja vu,” Rodgers said with a smile.
In 2008, owner Woody Johnson desperately wanted to add a big name to sell tickets as the Jets prepared to move to MetLife. Favre lasted only one season, which started well (with an 8-3 record), but the team finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs. Head coach Eric Mangini, promised by Johnson he’d be safe before the trade occurred, was fired. Favre was released.
Fifteen years later, when Rodgers became available, Johnson was starstruck — again.
To woo the four-time All-Pro, the owner approved the hiring of Hackett on Jan. 26. Rodgers won MVP awards in 2020 and 2021 after Hackett was hired as the Packers’ coordinator in 2019, and the quarterback developed a close friendship with the coach. But Hackett was also coming to New York fresh off a disastrous 15-game run as head coach of the Denver Broncos, a performance his replacement, Sean Payton, called “one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the NFL.”
Aaron Rodgers and Packers' long succession: 'Just tell the truth, you wanted to move on'
The Jets made Rodgers comfortable in other ways, pursuing some of his former Green Bay teammates and other friends in free agency before he officially joined the team in April. They signed wide receiver Allen Lazard to a $44 million deal on March 14, the first day of free agency, courted Odell Beckham Jr. before he signed with the Ravens and then added receiver Randall Cobb, tackle Billy Turner and quarterback Tim Boyle after Rodgers signed with New York. Rodgers also had offensive lineman David Bakhtiari and tight end Marcedes Lewis on his wish list.
The quarterback stuck around for offseason workouts, a rarity when he was with the Packers. On the field and in meetings, he put everything he had into changing the culture of the organization. He had felt shut out by Green Bay GM Brian Gutekunst and betrayed when Gutekunst drafted heir apparent Jordan Love in 2020. In New York, Rodgers was afforded a direct line of communication to general manager Joe Douglas.
It’s not uncommon for team decision-makers to consult star quarterbacks on potential roster additions, but the perception around the league was the Jets went beyond the norm. “Rodgers isn’t the assistant GM,” one AFC general manager said. “Joe Douglas is the assistant GM.”
Rodgers made an effort to get to know his teammates and built friendships over lunch in the team cafeteria and on trips to New York City. He pulled teammates aside during practice to offer pointers — coaches, too — and took former starter Zach Wilson under his wing.
Wilson had been a bitter disappointment since being drafted No. 2 overall in 2021 (23 career passing touchdowns, 25 interceptions in 34 games). In 2022, he was benched twice, and the Jets publicly pursued his replacement in the offseason.
This was supposed to be Wilson’s redshirt year, when the 24-year-old could sit back, watch and learn from his idol, then potentially salvage his career. In the offseason, Wilson called Rodgers “the big brother I never had.” Rodgers helped Wilson regain his confidence, and Wilson was willing to sit and watch, but the dynamic between the two players changed after Rodgers’ injury.
“The ‘what if?’ kind of hits you in the face pretty hard,” Aaron Rodgers said after a season in which he registered just four plays before catastrophe. (Ryan Kang / Getty Images)
Over the summer, Rodgers collaborated with Hackett to construct the offense — Saleh, as usual, was hands-off on that side of the ball. Rodgers and Hackett’s relationship dynamic is more frat brothers than player/coach, and Rodgers appreciates having the free will to operate the system as he sees fit. Both Rodgers and Hackett call the offense “quarterback friendly,” but as the Jets learned in 2023, that might only apply to one quarterback.
“That’s what Aaron wants” was a common refrain from Hackett as he told coaches what plays he wanted to run during camp. Often, Rodgers would hear Hackett’s play call and want something else, so the entire offense would reset.
Long before a litany of injuries along the offensive line (the Jets used 13 different starting combinations in 17 games), New York’s talented defensive line consistently outplayed them in practice. Growing pains were expected in a new offense full of new personnel, but one coach said it was concerning how little urgency Hackett and his staff showed in trying to fix it, saying he’d never seen a team watch less practice tape in training camp than the Jets did with Hackett.
When Rodgers went down, the Jets reached out to some veteran quarterbacks — like Chad Henne, Carson Wentz and Colt McCoy — but decided instead to roll with Wilson until (or if) Rodgers returned. Joe Flacco, who was with the Jets for parts of three seasons from 2020-22, was available, but key decision-makers inside the building didn’t think Flacco would be an upgrade, according to league sources. Flacco signed with the Browns in late November and is a finalist for Comeback Player of the Year after leading Cleveland to the playoffs.
Hackett struggled to adjust the offense to the team’s new reality. Multiple coaches and players described Hackett as lacking in attention to detail. For most of the season, Hackett would meet with offensive line coach/running game coordinator Keith Carter and passing game coordinator Todd Downing during the week but wouldn’t get together with the rest of the offensive staff until the “last minute” of game prep.
During games, Hackett struggled to make adjustments. Against the Dallas Cowboys in Week 2, Carter asked Hackett to give left tackle Duane Brown more help blocking Cowboys star pass rusher Micah Parsons, according to multiple team sources. But Hackett never adjusted, and Parsons dominated (two sacks, four QB hits) in a 30-10 loss.
In Week 6, Rodgers started flying in from California for games and was an active voice on the sideline headsets, offering opinions and ideas along with Hackett and the other offensive coaches before flying back to California the next day. The offense struggled nonetheless.
Ahead of a Week 11 game against the Bills, the Jets went younger, reducing playing time for veterans like tight end C.J. Uzomah, running back Dalvin Cook, Cobb and Lazard in favor of younger players and rookies, like sixth-round running back Israel Abanikanda, fourth-round tackle Carter Warren, undrafted receivers Jason Brownlee and Xavier Gipson and second-year tight end Jeremy Ruckert. The approach was approved by Johnson, and Hackett viewed it as an opportunity to practice the plays he’d be calling when Rodgers returned. Unsurprisingly, the offensive operation was even sloppier — the Jets led the league in pre-snap penalties and total penalties.
After a 30-0 loss to the Dolphins in Week 15, Lazard — in a season in which he would register the fewest receiving yards among 59 wide receivers to run at least 400 routes, per TruMedia, and the second-worst drop rate among wideouts with at least 30 targets, per Pro Football Focus — said New York was “out-efforted” and “out-schemed.” Those comments angered some of the team’s defensive leaders, team sources said, especially because they came from the floundering Lazard.
The Jets finished the season ranked last in third down conversions, red zone offense and total offensive EPA, 31st in total yards, 30th in offensive points per game and 30th in passing yards. They scored 10 offensive touchdowns in their first 12 games — and 18 total in 17 games.
Hackett will return as the offensive coordinator in 2024, though team and league sources say Saleh has explored adding to the offensive staff and creating a more collaborative play-calling process that would reduce Hackett’s role, a clear indication the team has lost confidence in his ability to run the offense on his own. Rodgers has been involved in those discussions.
“What happened this season can’t happen again,” said star receiver Garrett Wilson, who has played with seven quarterbacks in two seasons in New York. “We’ve gotta make adjustments in the game, we’ve gotta do things to counter what we’re getting and be able to put points on the board because two years I’ve been here, it’s been tough.
“Football hasn’t been this hard. When I watch it on the sideline, it don’t look that hard for the other team so we gotta figure out something to get it rolling no matter who is slinging it.”
Saleh has the mantra “positive vibes only” printed on T-shirts that coaches and other staffers often wear around the team facility. The Jets head coach tries to stay optimistic around players and in front of the media and has garnered respect from many in the locker room for cultivating an environment that allows players to be themselves.
But behind closed doors, the vibes weren’t always positive, especially when Saleh would see negative press reports. He would often bring up how, in his mind, the Giants don’t get as much negative coverage as the Jets, calling it unfair.
In the aftermath of Rodgers’ injury, Saleh bemoaned his bad luck. Throughout his tenure, he has often wondered aloud if he was doomed to the same fate as Vic Fangio, a brilliant defensive coach cursed by misfortune at quarterback. Fangio was fired by the Broncos in 2021 after three seasons and a 19-30 record despite building an elite defense. Saleh’s Jets — and his elite defense, ranked No. 1 in 2023 by PFF— are 18-33 in his three years as coach.
As the Jets lost games and struggled to score points, job security seemed to be Saleh’s primary concern. He wished Johnson or Rodgers would publicly endorse him for 2024.
Johnson is known around the building for being active on Twitter, consuming criticism from fans and media alike. According to team sources, Johnson often shared those opinions with Saleh in conversations about what wasn’t working on offense. Publicly, Saleh avoided criticizing Zach Wilson or even acknowledging his struggles. Privately, the coach pinned many of the team’s offensive issues on Wilson, the line and the receivers and told people getting to eight wins with Wilson at quarterback would be a “miracle.”
When the Jets lost to the Dolphins in Week 12, dropping their record to 4-7, noise about Saleh’s job security intensified. It didn’t help that Boyle threw a Hail Mary just before halftime that was picked off by defensive back Jevon Holland and returned 99 yards for a touchdown.
In the days after, an embittered Saleh conducted research. He wanted to see how teams led by the NFL’s best coaches performed when playing without their star quarterback. He found that Bill Belichick, Mike McCarthy, John Harbaugh, Zac Taylor, Mike McDaniel, Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay all had losing records in those situations — and that Mike Tomlin was the lone exception.
That became Saleh’s battle cry as the Jets’ losses piled up and criticism mounted: What do you expect? We lost Aaron Rodgers.
This was supposed to be the season when Zach Wilson sat and learned from his idol. Instead, he was a starter again by Week 2. (Al Bello / Getty Images)
When Wilson was benched for Boyle ahead of the Week 12 matchup with the Dolphins, he knew his Jets career was over. According to multiple team sources, in their meeting to discuss Wilson’s benching, Saleh told the quarterback he would be inactive for the rest of the season and that the team would try to trade him in the offseason.
But in the days before the Falcons game, Saleh reversed course and told Wilson to start practicing as if he might play again. He did not play against Atlanta, but after the Jets lost, Wilson knew they were considering starting him again. He expressed reluctance about returning to play and said he would politely decline if asked, based on his previous conversation with Saleh and fears of getting injured behind the Jets’ makeshift offensive line.
Saleh asked Rodgers to speak with Wilson, to convince the young quarterback to change his mind, according to team sources. That didn’t work either. Wilson’s feelings about his idol soured over the season.
As Rodgers was pushing the limits of torn Achilles rehab, determined to return in a little over three months — an unprecedented recovery time for that injury — Wilson, along with some Jets teammates and coaches, grew tired of the way Saleh fawned over Rodgers, according to team sources.
“I think he’s sacrificed so much already for the organization and himself and his teammates and he’s doing it again,” Saleh said on Nov. 30 as he discussed Rodgers’ attempted comeback. “I think it’s a testament to who he is as a human.”
Wilson told coaches and teammates he was under the impression he’d have a direct line to Rodgers, even after Rodgers tore his Achilles and flew home to California for surgery in the early stages of his rehab. Instead, Wilson barely heard from him.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 07:18:20 AM
Quote
It was only after The Athletic reported about Wilson’s hesitance that he went into Saleh’s office to say he’d start against the Houston Texans that week if asked. He did, and had the best game of his career, out-dueling star rookie C.J. Stroud in a surprising 30-6 win — before suffering a concussion the next week that ended his season.
Things went sideways for Saleh after the report about Wilson’s reluctance to return to the lineup.
“That’s a problem with the organization,” Rodgers said on “The Pat McAfee Show.” “We need to get to the bottom of whatever this is coming from and put a stop to it privately, because there’s no place in a winning culture … and this isn’t the only time. There’s been a bunch of other leaks.”
That sent Saleh into a tailspin. The coach held a meeting with his staff two days later where he asked the leaker to reveal himself, according to multiple people in attendance. “If you come forward now, you won’t get in trouble,” he told them while threatening to take their cell phones. Staffers were bemused by Saleh’s obsession with the Wilson story and his reaction to it.
The uncertainty around the 2024 season lingered until Rodgers publicly endorsed Saleh and Douglas a few days before a Week 16 game against the Commanders on Christmas Eve. Before the game, Johnson told the New York Post that Saleh and Douglas would both be returning.
A few weeks later, coaching heavyweights Belichick, Jim Harbaugh, Pete Carroll and Mike Vrabel became available, but the Jets weren’t interested.
Rodgers caused a firestorm in early January for his comments about Jimmy Kimmel on an episode of “The Pat McAfee Show,” but the Jets internally didn’t view it as an issue or even a distraction.
Ultimately, the Jets know that few athletes garner more attention than Rodgers. It’s why New York played in five prime-time games in 2023, as well as the NFL’s first Black Friday game, and why HBO wanted to follow the Jets around in training camp for their “Hard Knocks” series.
The added attention wasn’t always a good thing.
“Some of the stuff in the offseason with Aaron, with ‘Hard Knocks,’ I feel like we lost track of some things,” star cornerback Sauce Gardner said, adding, “When there’s a lot of cameras and a lot of stuff going on, you can lose track of the main thing. At the end of the day, we still got to win.”
When the Jets activated Rodgers’ 21-day practice window ahead of the Week 13 game against the Falcons, there was legitimate belief from Rodgers, Saleh and others in the organization that he would be able to return if the Jets (4-7 at the time) could remain in playoff contention. Instead, they were eliminated after a loss to the Dolphins in Week 15.
Morale improved once Rodgers returned to the team full-time at the start of that window and especially when he started practicing. He spent more time around the facility, and his work on the scout team served as a window into what life might’ve been like had he never gotten hurt.
“He was picking us apart, throwing dimes in there,” linebacker C.J. Mosley said. “You kind of catch yourself looking at it again like, dang, it’s Aaron Rodgers throwing the ball.”
How the Jets can fix their offensive line: 8-step plan to improve in 2024
Rodgers was voted the team’s “most inspirational” player at the end of the season, which, he said, nearly brought him to tears. “The ‘what if?’ kind of hits you in the face pretty hard,” Rodgers said, “because, obviously, if you saw what we were able to do, there’s a lot of what could have been.”
This offseason, the Jets will try to fix issues on the offensive line, at wide receiver and backup quarterback, but ultimately the organization believes the solution to most of its problems is simple: the return of Rodgers. It’s a risky proposition since he’s 40 and coming off an Achilles injury. But Rodgers welcomes doubters — it motivates him.
In the locker room, there was often a scooter propped up against Rodgers’ locker, which he’d sometimes use around the facility for his surgically repaired Achilles. On the back, there’s a fake New Jersey license plate with two words: WATCH ME.
For those in and around the Jets who witnessed a franchise turned over to an aging superstar and a season destroyed just minutes in, the hope is that betting big on Rodgers this time is the only thing that feels like deja vu.
“Aaron will be an offense in itself because that’s what he brings to the table,” Garrett Wilson said. “He’s special. I just pray that everyone in the world gets to see that next year. But what happened this year can’t happen again.”
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 07:20:20 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 07:38:39 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 08:10:46 AM
The other was probably Miami’s GM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 31, 2024, 08:11:14 AM
Saleh is a good defensive coordinator at HC. That doesn't mean we can't win with him at the helm. I don't think there's some overwhelming dislike of him from the players, especially on the defensive side obviously. If he can keep the defense running smoothly and Rodgers fixes the offense, we have something here.
Hackett sucks. He probably just meshes well with Rodgers because Rodgers gets to run the show with Hackett. I don't care as long as Rodgers plays well. History shows they have worked well together, but hopefully we'll see whether that's still true this year.
I think we all know this team is the New York Rodgerses. That decision was made last offseason. Where he goes, this team goes.
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7164731/post-game.0.gif)
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 31, 2024, 08:13:21 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 08:16:12 AM
The coaching staff should be the ones supporting Rodgers, not the other way around.
Another wasted season is staring us in the face if everything doesn't fall into place, and when has that ever happened for the New York Jets?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 31, 2024, 08:41:24 AM
Rodgers is 40 and coming off a significant injury. Forgive me if i'm skeptical that he comes into next season being able to lift this entire franchise on his back.
The coaching staff should be the ones supporting Rodgers, not the other way around.
Another wasted season is staring us in the face if everything doesn't fall into place, and when has that ever happened for the New York Jets?
I think they are supporting Rodgers by doing pretty much everything he wants. He's a 40 year old hall of famer, not a young QB. He knows what he wants and what works for him. Frankly most of us were on board with Rodgers coming here and were well aware of the baggage that comes with him. The only thing we need to do to support him better this year is re-tool the offensive line and get another WR or 2. If you think he won't be in on those decisions, you're crazy. If he gets what he wants, what else are they supposed to do? Dude has his fingerprints on every part of this team. The team is built for him because he is the piece we've been missing forever....a good QB.
One of 3 things will happen:
1) Rodgers plays well, we go to the playoffs and life is good.
2) Rodgers is mediocre, we don't make the playoffs and you get the housecleaning you've been wanting, along with Rodgers.
3) Rodgers gets hurt again early on. You probably still get the housecleaning you want unless we pull a 180 and play well without him.
This is the Rodgers show, like it or not.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 08:54:48 AM
I think they are supporting Rodgers by doing pretty much everything he wants. He's a 40 year old hall of famer, not a young QB. He knows what he wants and what works for him. Frankly most of us were on board with Rodgers coming here and were well aware of the baggage that comes with him. The only thing we need to do to support him better this year is re-tool the offensive line and get another WR or 2. If you think he won't be in on those decisions, you're crazy. If he gets what he wants, what else are they supposed to do? Dude has his fingerprints on every part of this team. The team is built for him because he is the piece we've been missing forever....a good QB.
One of 3 things will happen:
1) Rodgers plays well, we go to the playoffs and life is good.
2) Rodgers is mediocre, we don't make the playoffs and you get the housecleaning you've been wanting, along with Rodgers.
3) Rodgers gets hurt again early on. You probably still get the housecleaning you want unless we pull a 180 and play well without him.
This is the Rodgers show, like it or not.
I'm aware of all this.
My point was, i'm tired of looking to next season because we just wasted another season.
We're literally relying on a 40 year old QB to not only carry this entire team, but to stay healthy. I'm not nearly as optimistic as i was last spring.
I don't give a excrement who's running the show or whatever. We keep saying that acquiring Rodgers was the way to go...what if it wasn't? We're getting a glimmer into that scenario right now.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 08:56:31 AM
To be honest, there was nothing new, revealing or surprising in the piece. Most of it we already knew. I was actually disappointed. Expected much more.
Yeah, pretty much
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 09:14:08 AM
Quote
Connor Rogers
@ConnorJRogers
Some thoughts…
▫️A lot of it is not too shocking if you watched the Jets offense this year. Didn’t look prepared, creative or all around well coached
▫️The movement to playing young players being ‘approved’ by Woody…very bad sign. Shouldn’t need an owner to sign off on that
this bothered me too
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 09:15:49 AM
Quote
Connor Rogers
@ConnorJRogers
▫️Ultimately when adversity hit, everyone in some form of a leadership position pointed finger at one another
Leaves you wondering if the right people are in place
Ironically, 2 of the youngest in the org in Sauce+Garrett Wilson seem to have the most mature outlook consistently
Connor Rogers knows the score
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 09:27:12 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 09:33:12 AM
Rogers also pointed out how shitty the timing of the article was. Rosenblatt wants to ask Ulbrich about it today at the Senior Bowl.
the timing was clearly executed to stick in somone's kraw.
Post by: Jumbo on January 31, 2024, 09:41:43 AM
Aaron wasn't his best fwiend :'(
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 09:44:38 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 09:46:03 AM
Wilson only agreed to play again because he lucked into the $1 a month subscription for The Athletic
One of Saleh's birthday gifts was the very same $1 subscription
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2024, 09:47:50 AM
There's a non-zero chance Woody has seen my tweets asking him for money.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 10:04:23 AM
"Johnson is known around the building for being active on Twitter, consuming criticism from fans and media alike."
There's a non-zero chance Woody has seen my tweets asking him for money.
I didn't want to believe this either...but then i remember he fired Idzik after people flew banners over Metlife stadium.
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2024, 10:10:08 AM
To be honest, there was nothing new, revealing or surprising in the piece. Most of it we already knew. I was actually disappointed. Expected much more.I was surprised to see Mike Vrabel listed as a coaching heavyweight.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 10:13:40 AM
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2024, 10:14:29 AM
this bothered me tooWe already know Woody meddles with personnel decisions and reacts to fan vibes.
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2024, 10:15:27 AM
Amazing how they can say the right thing to the media and still get ratted out for daring to be honest internally.
Connor Rogers knows the score
Post by: bojanglesman on January 31, 2024, 10:19:48 AM
I don't give a excrement who's running the show or whatever.
But you do because you've been wanting to fire everyone this year.
Also, are you suggesting we should do something other than start Rodgers? Whether he's 40 and coming injury doesn't matter anymore unless you are planning to sign a good FA QB to compete with him this year, which no one is or should be suggesting. The only thing they need to do is sign a competent veteran QB as his backup in hopes they could keep us afloat if we are still in the hunt. He's our best option, and worrying about what happens to him doesn't matter because everyone is fucked if he gets hurt.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 10:22:41 AM
We already know Woody meddles with personnel decisions and reacts to fan vibes.
getting confirmation on it makes it hit a little harder.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 10:23:47 AM
We already know Woody meddles with personnel decisions and reacts to fan vibes.
But what about the Positive Vibes Only t-shirts?
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 10:26:13 AM
But you do because you've been wanting to fire everyone this year.
well duh. Of course i care when you're losing...i wouldn't if we were winning.
Quote
Also, are you suggesting we should do something other than start Rodgers? Whether he's 40 and coming injury doesn't matter anymore unless you are planning to sign a good FA QB to compete with him this year, which no one is or should be suggesting. The only thing they need to do is sign a competent veteran QB as his backup in hopes they could keep us afloat if we are still in the hunt. He's our best option, and worrying about what happens to him doesn't matter because everyone is fucked if he gets hurt.
Rodgers is here, there's no going back now. What i'm saying is...we all thought it was a great move (except for a few folks, hi Cato), but perhaps the minority was correct.
Trying to have some optimism for this team year in and year out is getting more difficult as i get older.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 10:27:27 AM
But what about the Positive Vibes Only t-shirts?
I'll attend the tailgate next fall if we're all wearing these for it.
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2024, 10:38:26 AM
But what about the Positive Vibes Only t-shirts?Hard-hitting journalism
Very cool that the beat actively undermines the team though.
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2024, 10:41:01 AM
well duh. Of course i care when you're losing...i wouldn't if we were winning.
Rodgers is here, there's no going back now. What i'm saying is...we all thought it was a great move (except for a few folks, hi Cato), but perhaps the minority was correct.
The minority isn't correct unless it becomes apparent we'd have been better off NOT getting Rodgers. And that seems like a hard conclusion to draw based on this year's on-field product.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 31, 2024, 11:29:39 AM
They were better off taking a swing at Rodgers than signing Derek Carr.
The minority isn't correct unless it becomes apparent we'd have been better off NOT getting Rodgers. And that seems like a hard conclusion to draw based on this year's on-field product.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 11:45:38 AM
The minority isn't correct unless it becomes apparent we'd have been better off NOT getting Rodgers. And that seems like a hard conclusion to draw based on this year's on-field product.
They were better off taking a swing at Rodgers than signing Derek Carr.
It's difficult to look at what we got this season and still say it was the better option, given that Rodgers was the reason we hired Hackett, signed Boyle, Turner, Lazard, and Cobb, are short a second round pick in this year's draft, and are going into next season with a 40 yo QB coming off of a major leg injury.
Signing Carr would have cost us less in every aspect. The gamble isn't worth it just because you took the excrement. Shitting the bed is not better than not shitting the bed.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 11:48:17 AM
They were better off taking a swing at Rodgers than signing Derek Carr.
No QB would be successful behind our patchwork offensive line.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 11:48:43 AM
The problem is I don't think many QBs would stay up with our lack of protection.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 31, 2024, 11:49:13 AM
It's difficult to look at what we got this season and still say it was the better option, given that Rodgers was the reason we hired Hackett, signed Turner, Lazard, and Cobb, are short a second round pick in this year's draft, and are going into next season with a 40 yo QB coming off of a major leg injury.Yes but where would we be with Derek Carr? We are probably still the clear #3 in the division. Probably get a wild card given how down the AFC was. Of course, that assumes he stays healthy, and if Rodgers had stayed healthy, we wouldn't be having this convo.
Signing Carr would have cost us less in every aspect. The gamble isn't worth it just because you took the excrement. Shitting the bed is not better than not shitting the bed.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 11:50:54 AM
Also two years of Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall while they were still affordable since I'm sure next season, Rodgers or no, is actually going to be very little of an improvement over this one.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 11:52:49 AM
Yes but where would we be with Derek Carr? We are probably still the clear #3 in the division. Probably get a wild card given how down the AFC was. Of course, that assumes he stays healthy, and if Rodgers had stayed healthy, we wouldn't be having this convo.
All other things being equal, the OLine would have doomed either Carr or Rodgers from the beginning, Rodgers especially. You said it yourself after week 1: if he got hurt 4 plays into the season then there was no way he was staying healthy for the whole thing even if he escaped it on that play. Especially given that that was what the CS thought would be the starting OLine for the season.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 11:56:09 AM
Moving on from Becton and Brown at least gives us a shot at something different. Running it back just can't happen this time.
If our solution to one tackle spot is trading for or signing David Bakhtiari then we absolutely know who is calling the shots.
Their jobs are on the line. They have to do whatever it takes to fix this mess.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 12:01:59 PM
We went into the season with recovering players at both tackle spots and one of the guard spots. It was a recipe for disaster.
Moving on from Becton and Brown at least gives us a shot at something different. Running it back just can't happen this time.
If our solution to one tackle spot is trading for or signing David Bakhtiari then we absolutely know who is calling the shots.
Their jobs are on the line. They have to do whatever it takes to fix this mess.
Their jobs are almost certainly gone after this season which makes me worried that they are going to do some stupid excrement, e.g.: trade for Bakhtiari and Adams or add some void years onto contracts we should never extend like with Uzomah, Mosely, and Tomlinson.
Whoever has the reigns in 2025 is going to have a nice hole to dig themselves out of.
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2024, 12:09:30 PM
Yes but where would we be with Derek Carr? We are probably still the clear #3 in the division. Probably get a wild card given how down the AFC was. Of course, that assumes he stays healthy, and if Rodgers had stayed healthy, we wouldn't be having this convo.Assuming we were even Carr's #1 choice.
Post by: Johnny English on January 31, 2024, 12:44:14 PM
Unless Saleh found an OC who could basically be the head coach of half of the team this season was screwed
This is the model employed by most teams in the league, it's just that they mostly flip offense and defense. I'm very sure that Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan don't have much to do with decisions on the defensive side of the ball.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 31, 2024, 12:55:26 PM
No QB would be successful behind our patchwork offensive line.True.
Their jobs are almost certainly gone after this season which makes me worried that they are going to do some stupid excrement, e.g.: trade for Bakhtiari and Adams or add some void years onto contracts we should never extend like with Uzomah, Mosely, and Tomlinson.Unless we make the playoffs. I think we have a good shot if Rodgers stays healthy.
Whoever has the reigns in 2025 is going to have a nice hole to dig themselves out of.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 12:56:52 PM
This is the model employed by most teams in the league, it's just that they mostly flip offense and defense. I'm very sure that Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan don't have much to do with decisions on the defensive side of the ball.
I'd be hard pressed to believe that Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan wouldn't be in Steve Spagnuolo or Steve Wilk's derriere if they were constantly putting their offense in poor alignments or leading the league in pre-snap penalties.
The expectation is never for a head coach to be involved with the minor details of every side of the ball. It's for them to hold their coordinators accountable instead of the "Well, that's Mike/Paul's department," attitude we are seeing from Saleh. The coaches who are uninterested or unwilling to get involved on the larger issues in the opposite side of the ball are the ones who fail.
EDIT: Wrong DC
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 12:57:20 PM
I think we have a good shot if Rodgers stays healthy.
It'll be a dog fight.
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
Kansas City
Los Angeles
Buffalo
Miami
Houston
Cincy gets Burrow back. Los Angeles has Harbaugh now. That's two teams that weren't really in our way this season.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2024, 12:59:02 PM
I'd be hard pressed to believe that Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan wouldn't be in Steve Spagnuolo or Joe Barry's derriere if they were constantly putting their offense in poor alignments or leading the league in pre-snap penalties.This
The expectation is never for a head coach to be involved with the minor details of every side of the ball. It's for them to hold their coordinators accountable instead of the "Well, that's Mike/Paul's department," attitude we are seeing from Saleh. The coaches who are uninterested or unwilling to get involved on the larger issues in the opposite side of the ball are the ones who fail.
Post by: Johnny English on January 31, 2024, 12:59:47 PM
I'd be hard pressed to believe that Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan wouldn't be in Steve Spagnuolo or Joe Barry's derriere if they were constantly putting their offense in poor alignments or leading the league in pre-snap penalties.
The expectation is never for a head coach to be involved with the minor details of every side of the ball. It's for them to hold their coordinators accountable instead of the "Well, that's Mike/Paul's department," attitude we are seeing from Saleh. The coaches who are uninterested or unwilling to get involved on the larger issues in the opposite side of the ball are the ones who fail.
Yes. When your co-ordinator on the side of the ball you're not a specialist in sucks, you fire him. But as we all know, our circumstances are different. Saleh doesn't have a choice in that, for better or worse he's along for the ride that they all - Woody, Douglas, and him - chose to take. I know your views on that, but Saleh isn't failing to appropriately address the issue at OC. He literally can't now. His only real option would be to resign.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 01:04:06 PM
A healthy Rodgers with an improved line are facing an even more difficult AFC this season.
Something on this defense is going to fall off. Mosely is about to be 31, all of our safeties are UDFAs, our interior line depth is about to go away or it's about to eat into our EDGE depth which just creates another problem, all with a money shortage set for next season.
before you play the "cap isn't real" card remember we have to trust Joe Douglas to fix his own mess with these contracts, something he hasn't really shown aptitude in doing unless he's planning on moving some of the bigger ones via trade in which case please see above.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 01:05:26 PM
Yes. When your co-ordinator on the side of the ball you're not a specialist in sucks, you fire him. But as we all know, our circumstances are different. Saleh doesn't have a choice in that, for better or worse he's along for the ride that they all - Woody, Douglas, and him - chose to take. I know your views on that, but Saleh isn't failing to appropriately address the issue at OC. He literally can't now. His only real option would be to resign.
Firing the OC shouldn't be the first and only solution. If the World's Only Gold Member Fan needs training wheels to get the offense running properly then that should have been Saleh's priority, especially if firing him wasn't an option.
Post by: Johnny English on January 31, 2024, 01:08:24 PM
Where did I say that firing Hackett is the only solution?
I was replying to your assertion that Hackett wasn't capable of managing past the absence of Rodgers, which we all agree with. The point is that there was no alternative option, at least for Saleh. It would have required the entire team hierarchy to decide that it was bigger than Aaron Rodgers, which at this point it seems clear they are not willing to.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 01:19:39 PM
I was replying to your assertion that Hackett wasn't capable of managing past the absence of Rodgers, which we all agree with. The point is that there was no alternative option, at least for Saleh. It would have required the entire team hierarchy to decide that it was bigger than Aaron Rodgers, which at this point it seems clear they are not willing to.
You're talking to a different point. Hackett being excrement without Rodgers was always a given but the pre-snap penalties with the OLine, alignment issues with the WRs and the general lack of cohesion were problems that Rodgers could only impact by so much, especially the OLine. The fact that Saleh just let Hackett continue to fail without changing any part of how that department operated is telling about how in over his head Saleh is.
You're OLine can't stop beating themselves before the snap? I want your plan on how to fix it or I'm giving you the plan on how to fix it.
You're not pulling in your other assistants until Thursday to do game-planning? You're starting earlier and I'm sitting in on some of those (he probably should have been sitting in on some of those in the first place).
This is basic excrement.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 31, 2024, 01:45:09 PM
Sorry, but while I can accept the idea that a DC HC shouldn't micromanage the offense, he's got to do something when it's as bad as it was this year. And then to see the no film watching thing is just the cherry on top of the excrement sundae.
Post by: Johnny English on January 31, 2024, 02:17:37 PM
You're talking to a different point. Hackett being excrement without Rodgers was always a given but the pre-snap penalties with the OLine, alignment issues with the WRs and the general lack of cohesion were problems that Rodgers could only impact by so much, especially the OLine. The fact that Saleh just let Hackett continue to fail without changing any part of how that department operated is telling about how in over his head Saleh is.It's basic management that goes on in every moderately well run department of every moderately well run business.
You're OLine can't stop beating themselves before the snap? I want your plan on how to fix it or I'm giving you the plan on how to fix it.
You're not pulling in your other assistants until Thursday to do game-planning? You're starting earlier and I'm sitting in on some of those (he probably should have been sitting in on some of those in the first place).
This is basic excrement.
But the CEO doesn't pull the Sales Director of an underperfoming department and tell him how to improve his sales team. At a certain level, essential management skills are table stakes. If you don't do those things then you're fired.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 02:21:11 PM
It's basic management that goes on in every moderately well run department of every moderately well run business.
But the CEO doesn't pull the Sales Director of an underperfoming department and tell him how to improve his sales team. At a certain level, essential management skills are table stakes. If you don't do those things then you're fired.
Saleh isn't the CEO.
Post by: Johnny English on January 31, 2024, 02:29:54 PM
Saleh isn't the CEO.All I've heard about for years is people wanting "a CEO type coach", I have issues with that but now we have one let's not start complaing about it.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 31, 2024, 03:17:39 PM
All I've heard about for years is people wanting "a CEO type coach", I have issues with that but now we have one let's not start complaing about it.
In your previous post you said a CEO HC should fire a guy if he shows he doesn't have the skills to do his job. Well, Hackett quite clearly can't do the job. So people complaining that the CEO HC isn't acting like a CEO isn't wrong.
To back to my film harping, if a CEO learned his middle managers were canceling meetings to review market results and the respective teams that were skipping meetings were then going overbudget and not delivering, the CEO would be an idiot to let said manager continue to skip meetings.
Post by: Johnny English on January 31, 2024, 03:49:37 PM
In your previous post you said a CEO HC should fire a guy if he shows he doesn't have the skills to do his job. Well, Hackett quite clearly can't do the job. So people complaining that the CEO HC isn't acting like a CEO isn't wrong.
To back to my film harping, if a CEO learned his middle managers were canceling meetings to review market results and the respective teams that were skipping meetings were then going overbudget and not delivering, the CEO would be an idiot to let said manager continue to skip meetings.
CEO's empower their management team to set and implement strategies in keeping with achieving the overall corporate goals. In order to do this, they hire a management team capable of building and running their specialist business units. CEOs do not take over failing business units and instruct the manager how to run it, they fire the manager and get one who knows what he's doing. But in this case we won't let him, so we've managed to create the worst of both worlds.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2024, 03:55:33 PM
Now that we all agree on that, Saleh should have gotten more involved in the offense because it is ultimately his offense out there. A head coach cannot own only half of the team. That is a coordinator.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2024, 05:20:16 PM
lmao
our fanbase is retarded
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 31, 2024, 05:22:35 PM
Yes, CEO head coach is a dumb concept.
Now that we all agree on that, Saleh should have gotten more involved in the offense because it is ultimately his offense out there. A head coach cannot own only half of the team. That is a coordinator.
Yes, this
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2024, 08:09:57 PM
CEO's empower their management team to set and implement strategies in keeping with achieving the overall corporate goals. In order to do this, they hire a management team capable of building and running their specialist business units. CEOs do not take over failing business units and instruct the manager how to run it, they fire the manager and get one who knows what he's doing.
By far the most depressing post in this thread
Post by: Coach K on January 31, 2024, 09:57:53 PM
What a joke lol
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 08:43:25 AM
this will ruin your day
This did not in fact ruin my day
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 08:45:26 AM
Rodgers is 40 and coming off a significant injury. Forgive me if i'm skeptical that he comes into next season being able to lift this entire franchise on his back.
The coaching staff should be the ones supporting Rodgers, not the other way around.
Another wasted season is staring us in the face if everything doesn't fall into place, and when has that ever happened for the New York Jets?
Oh no not another wasted season!
The alternative is that we fire everyone and start over at QB and have another wasted season, but different
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2024, 08:51:23 AM
This did not in fact ruin my day
What if Justin Gray is right?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 08:54:39 AM
Quote
When Rodgers went down, the Jets reached out to some veteran quarterbacks — like Chad Henne, Carson Wentz and Colt McCoy — but decided instead to roll with Wilson until (or if) Rodgers returned. Joe Flacco, who was with the Jets for parts of three seasons from 2020-22, was available, but key decision-makers inside the building didn’t think Flacco would be an upgrade, according to league sources. Flacco signed with the Browns in late November and is a finalist for Comeback Player of the Year after leading Cleveland to the playoffs.
How is Saleh getting assblasted but everyone is glossing over this paragraph?
This is likely the only thing that would have improved the offense, not Hackett watching more film of Tim Boyle throwing ducks
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 08:55:19 AM
Fired
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 08:56:21 AM
What if Justin Gray is right?
The guy has 2 dogs, of course he’s right
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 08:56:37 AM
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2024, 09:14:09 AM
“Key decision makers didn’t think Joe Flacco would be an upgrade over Zach Wilson and Tim Boyle”
Fired
I also don't think Joe Flacco would have been an upgrade over Zach Wilson in our team last year. Our mess of an OL looks nothing like Cleveland's and Flacco playing statues behind it would have been disastrous.
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2024, 09:19:30 AM
This did not in fact ruin my day
i'll try harder next time
Post by: bojanglesman on February 01, 2024, 09:42:44 AM
I also don't think Joe Flacco would have been an upgrade over Zach Wilson in our team last year. Our mess of an OL looks nothing like Cleveland's and Flacco playing statues behind it would have been disastrous.
Yep. Our offensive line and it's 11 million injuries was the deal sealer for this team no matter who was at QB. Even Rodgers would have struggled, albeit not as much.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:04:19 AM
I also don't think Joe Flacco would have been an upgrade over Zach Wilson in our team last year. Our mess of an OL looks nothing like Cleveland's and Flacco playing statues behind it would have been disastrous.
I’m not accepting this as an excuse
Joe Douglas failed the minute we went into the 2023 season with that OL unit and a 37 year old QB
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2024, 10:08:21 AM
I’m not accepting this as an excuse
Joe Douglas failed the minute we went into the 2023 season with that OL unit and a 37 year old QB
Sure, but he wasn't fixing it with an equally old and even less mobile replacement QB.
You shouldn't be wanting him fired because he didn't sign Flacco, you should be wanting him fired because he put us in a position where it needed to be considered.
Post by: Jumbo on February 01, 2024, 10:08:22 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:10:17 AM
Even if we got peak Browns Flacco it maybe would have been worth another win. And then we'd be bitching about draft position even more
Probably true, but another 2 wins could have potentially gotten us into the playoffs
That would have changed the narrative on this season quite a bit
Post by: Jumbo on February 01, 2024, 10:11:52 AM
Probably true, but another 2 wins could have potentially gotten us into the playoffs
That would have changed the narrative on this season quite a bit
It took 10 wins to get into the playoffs in the AFC so no it wouldn't have
Regardless, it's stupid to speculate. We saw Flacco here and he was bad because our offensive scheme and personnel have been overall bad.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:12:42 AM
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2024, 10:15:51 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:23:17 AM
We had a defense that kept us in almost every game. Anything closer to League average QB play and it’s certainly arguable that we win more games
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:24:54 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2024, 10:26:33 AM
Conversely, Flacco probably throws a bunch of picks and loses us the game in Denver, he likely doesn't play as well as Zach did against Houston, and he could easily have lost against the Giants because Thibodeaux would have destroyed him. The assumption that Flacco wins all the games that Zach did plus some of the ones he didn't is a massive stretch.
So Joe Flacco would've been a better Tank Commander?
Post by: bojanglesman on February 01, 2024, 10:27:46 AM
The “OL was too bad” point has already been covered. By me probably more than anyone here. This conversation is about whether the GM did an acceptable job, not how good or bad Joe Flacco would have been.
With the amount of injuries we had on the line, I'm not sure anyone could have done enough to cover up for that. You could argue that our depth was not high enough quality, but damn near everyone died at RG.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:28:00 AM
He was benched by week 11 for Tim freaking Boyle
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2024, 10:29:05 AM
So Joe Flacco would've been a better Tank Commander?
Maybe. Maybe he'd have won the same number of games as Zach. Maybe he'd have won games Zach lost and lost games Zach won. Most likely he'd have been destroyed and done for the season by week 6. It's impossible to know for sure, but the one thing I am very sure of is that he wouldn't have solved any of the actual problems with the team.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:29:06 AM
With the amount of injuries we had on the line, I'm not sure anyone could have done enough to cover up for that. You could argue that our depth was not high enough quality, but damn near everyone died at RG.
We went into the season with Duane Brown and Billy Turner as our starting OTs
We deserved everything that happened this season
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2024, 10:29:07 AM
The “OL was too bad” point has already been covered. By me probably more than anyone here. This conversation is about whether the GM did an acceptable job, not how good or bad Joe Flacco would have been.
JD could've added any veteran QB and we added ...Trevor Siemian. That's where he failed.
We promoted Tim Boyle from the PS and then replaced him with Brett Rypien. None of these QBs are better players than Zach Wilson. Their "experience" in the system didn't do excrement for us either.
Flacco would've been a disaster here, but signing him (or any veteran QB with actual starting experience) would've at least shown that we didn't just throw in the towel. Pivoting to Tim Boyle was basically rock bottom.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:29:55 AM
Maybe. Maybe he'd have won the same number of games as Zach. Maybe he'd have won games Zach lost and lost games Zach won. Most likely he'd have been destroyed and done for the season by week 6. It's impossible to know for sure, but the one thing I am very sure of is that he wouldn't have solved any of the actual problems with the team.
We started Tim Boyle and Trevor Siemian in real games this season!
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2024, 10:30:55 AM
#AllExcusesNoBrake
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2024, 10:31:11 AM
We started Tim Boyle and Trevor Siemian in real games this season!
Mate, you're shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic. Only one QB stood any chance of salvaging anything from this roster and playcalling, and he died four snaps into the season.
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2024, 10:32:56 AM
Douglas could've drafted and signed the greatest show on turf offense, and it would've floundered under this coaching staff.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:34:41 AM
we hired another DC to run this team, and big surprise...the offense is completely rudderless.
Douglas could've drafted and signed the greatest show on turf offense, and it would've floundered under this coaching staff.
We should give that a try and see what happens
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 10:35:16 AM
Mate, you're shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic. Only one QB stood any chance of salvaging anything from this roster and playcalling, and he died four snaps into the season.
According to Russini it’s cause we didn’t watch enough tape
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 01, 2024, 11:27:35 AM
Gunning to be JD's replacement.
Post by: AlioTheFool on February 01, 2024, 01:40:04 PM
We should give that a try and see what happens
Yeah, I'd be in favor of installing a high-octane offense just for shits and giggles.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 02:03:38 PM
Yeah, I'd be in favor of installing a high-octane offense just for shits and giggles.
But our coaches will freak it up!
Better to not even try
Post by: Badger on February 01, 2024, 07:25:18 PM
Oh no not another wasted season!Wasted season pop tart with futility filling
The alternative is that we fire everyone and start over at QB and have another wasted season, but different
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2024, 09:30:59 PM
Wasted season pop tart with futility fillingNo frosting? freak you.
Post by: AlioTheFool on February 02, 2024, 08:26:47 AM
No frosting? freak you.
Fan tears frosting with draft pick sprinkles
Post by: Johnny English on February 02, 2024, 10:01:49 AM
No frosting? freak you.
Frosting is for winners.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 02, 2024, 10:08:09 AM
Frosting is for closers.
fyp
Post by: Coach K on February 02, 2024, 02:42:25 PM
Thank god we got Keith Carter instead lol
Clearly it's the father son connection but Jesus talk about clear signs your staff moved backward not forward