Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 02, 2019, 08:20:36 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 02, 2019, 08:26:38 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 02, 2019, 09:59:42 AM
Prob should be fired immediately tbhBraxton Berrios. Best I can do, sorry man.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190902/e69890f70490c908359cb338cdfa7271.jpg)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 31, 2019, 05:32:36 PM
Quote
Joe Douglas said Adam Gase will have input in personnel moves
Good
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 31, 2019, 05:47:19 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 31, 2019, 06:27:43 PM
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 31, 2019, 07:19:00 PM
Other positive notes was that Douglas mentioned that this team will be built from the line-of-scrimmage up, and a priority will be made to improve the team from the trenches every offseason.
Douglas also praised the team and staff for not laying down when we were 1-7, but reinforced that no one should be happy with a 7-9 season.
At least he is saying all the right things, noe it's time to see him execute on those words.
Post by: IATA on December 31, 2019, 07:47:29 PM
maybe the plan is to unite the team in not playing to their potential because the coach is freaking terrible?
true leadership
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 31, 2019, 09:01:03 PM
Listening to the Douglas' presser, I don't see a situation where we're getting rid of either Jamal or Le'Veon. The theme of the presser was building the best culture possible in the locker room and whenever either of the Le'Veon or Jamal was brought up Douglas praised their character and leadership.Everything Gase and Douglas have said publicly constantly praise Adams and Bell, at least until Gase's last press conference with Manish.
Other positive notes was that Douglas mentioned that this team will be built from the line-of-scrimmage up, and a priority will be made to improve the team from the trenches every offseason.
Douglas also praised the team and staff for not laying down when we were 1-7, but reinforced that no one should be happy with a 7-9 season.
At least he is saying all the right things, noe it's time to see him execute on those words.
I can't imagine we trade Adams unless we get an offer we can't refuse. And that would take more than two 1st-round picks.
Post by: reuben on December 31, 2019, 09:22:12 PM
Listening to the Douglas' presser, I don't see a situation where we're getting rid of either Jamal or Le'Veon. The theme of the presser was building the best culture possible in the locker room and whenever either of the Le'Veon or Jamal was brought up Douglas praised their character and leadership.
Yes, this is the correct, diplomatic approach one should take regardless of whether or not there are trades to be made. Only an idiot would stand up at a year-end presser and diminish a player's trade value with vague, passive aggressive remarks. Only an idiot.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 31, 2019, 10:16:55 PM
Everything Gase and Douglas have said publicly constantly praise Adams and Bell, at least until Gase's last press conference with Manish.
I can't imagine we trade Adams unless we get an offer we can't refuse. And that would take more than two 1st-round picks.
From the sound of it an offer we can't refuse would be a 1st and two 2nds, and that seems very plausible.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 31, 2019, 11:42:08 PM
From the sound of it an offer we can't refuse would be a 1st and two 2nds, and that seems very plausible.That's an offer I could refuse though.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 31, 2019, 11:52:55 PM
well theres already a big problem with their plan, gase is a freaking prick and nobody likes him.
maybe the plan is to unite the team in not playing to their potential because the coach is freaking terrible?
true leadership
How are people still running with this narrative.
I know plenty of 1-7 teams that don't roll over when they hate their coach. Oh wait.
Post by: IATA on January 01, 2020, 12:05:33 AM
7-9 and missing the playoffs and alienating the biggest FA signing in years is totally the ticket to a title.
Totally.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 01, 2020, 12:25:00 AM
No dude you're right, Adam gase is clearly a super personable guy who respects his players and gets respect back.
7-9 and missing the playoffs and alienating the biggest FA signing in years is totally the ticket to a title.
Totally.
Given the circumstances of the season, what should this team have achieved record wise? That has to be the dumbest justification for your argument in the freaking universe.
Like for fucks sake, when JE and Six do this, at least they bring up how bad the offense was, which is such a viable argument that it inspires pages of debate to the point that we've all tapped out because its a fundamental difference of placing blame on personnel and injuries vs the coach.
But no. You blindly cited a record that I'd argue isn't an underachievement in the face of all the injuries and underachievement from high priced acquisitions. Probably because you have absolutely nothing to substantiate your original criticism.
Again. The idea that the locker room despises him when they clearly play for him is freaking ludicrous.
As far as Bell, two beat writers (Hughes, Costello) have already put forth the reality that Gase spent a lot of his season speaking his praises, lauding his toughness and willingness to change his running style because of the line.
But he decided to be a dick to Manish on the last day of the year, and hacks like Mike Florio and dumpster fires like bleacher report ran with it like his answer had actually anything to do with the player in question as opposed to him just having enough excrement from a total weasely queynte because its a good story.
Post by: insanity on January 01, 2020, 01:04:30 AM
Post by: IATA on January 01, 2020, 09:46:53 AM
Post by: Pope on January 01, 2020, 10:01:41 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2020, 10:38:30 AM
Fortunately Joe Douglas doesn’t build the team based on the opinions of idiots on a message boardThis
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on January 01, 2020, 10:50:31 AM
Fortunately Joe Douglas doesn’t build the team based on the opinions of idiots on a message boardJust in case, let's use every literal forum to spew how Gase is the anti-Christ and needs to be fired to the sun.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 01, 2020, 11:42:30 AM
Fortunately Joe Douglas doesn’t build the team based on the opinions of idiots on a message board
That’s fortunate, but ironic in that our last GM had a hit rate in FA and the draft similar to a shitposter on a message board. And if he did listen to us he probably would have drafted more than 2 late round OL in 4 years
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2020, 09:31:27 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2020, 09:38:44 AM
Dumb question: Did Joe Douglas clean house on the scouting dept at some point after Duff got fired....i don't recall.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/sports/nfl/bs-sp-jets-front-office-ravens-ties-0621-story.html%3foutputType=amp
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2020, 09:52:55 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/sports/nfl/bs-sp-jets-front-office-ravens-ties-0621-story.html%3foutputType=amp
thanks
Post by: Miamipuck on March 18, 2020, 07:05:51 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2020, 07:08:22 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 18, 2020, 08:36:44 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 18, 2020, 08:56:47 AM
As long as Joe D is ignoring all input from Gase on FA and the draft, then he gets an A+ in my book
I don't like Gase, but that doesn't make any sense.
I may not like him, but I want him to win. He can remain coach if he wins games. IDGAF what his attitude is if he becomes a winner.
So he should have the personnel that works for him. Hopefully, he and Joe are on the same page.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2020, 09:49:18 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 18, 2020, 10:02:29 AM
I don't like Gase, but that doesn't make any sense.
I may not like him, but I want him to win. He can remain coach if he wins games. IDGAF what his attitude is if he becomes a winner.
So he should have the personnel that works for him. Hopefully, he and Joe are on the same page.
I am being the slightest bit facetious...but only the tiniest amount.
My comment really stems from his atrocious job of evaluating talent in Miami.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2020, 10:09:11 AM
How has he not made a move yet today??
Probably waiting for 4 PM.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2020, 10:13:39 AM
Probably waiting for 4 PM.
#DougNinja
Post by: insanity on March 18, 2020, 10:22:50 AM
How has he not made a move yet today??We don't have alot of money to spend.
We only have about $24MM left which could go up to $44MM if we cut Roberts, Winters, and Williamson.
I would likely only expect 1 more "big" move which will likely take some time.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 18, 2020, 10:32:56 AM
We don't have alot of money to spend.Cutting Tru saves another $8 million this year.
We only have about $24MM left which could go up to $44MM if we cut Roberts, Winters, and Williamson.
I would likely only expect 1 more "big" move which will likely take some time.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2020, 10:45:35 AM
Cutting Tru saves another $8 million this year.
Right. His salary shouldn’t come off of the books until later today, right?
Or did the $24million figure include the Tru cut?
Post by: bojanglesman on March 18, 2020, 10:50:37 AM
Right. His salary shouldn’t come off of the books until later today, right?Once he's officially cut, his $12 million of dead money will probably split over 2 years. We pay $4 million this year and $8 million next year. So that would free up $8 million of cap this year.
Or did the $24million figure include the Tru cut?
I don't think that was included in that $24 million number, so it should be about $32 million
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 18, 2020, 11:01:08 AM
I am being the slightest bit facetious...but only the tiniest amount.
My comment really stems from his atrocious job of evaluating talent in Miami.
Fair, and I understand he doesn't have a great track record to point to. And again, I don't like him or think he's the right guy.
But I want him to prove me wrong. And he needs players that are going to work in his system to make that happen. Hopefully, Joe is a good talent evaluator and has the courage to overrule Gase when necessary, but I think he needs to work with Adam to get the "right" players onto the roster.
Post by: Johnny English on March 18, 2020, 11:01:30 AM
Cutting Tru saves another $8 million this year.
I thought it was only a $3M saving?
Post by: mj2sexay on March 18, 2020, 11:03:02 AM
I thought it was only a $3M saving?
I could be wrong, but I believe with the CBA being ratified we're allowed to designate him as a "post June 1st" cut which spreads the hit over two seasons.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 18, 2020, 11:03:35 AM
I thought it was only a $3M saving?That was before the new CBA was signed. If no CBA was agreed upon, all dead money would have been due this season with no ability to spread over 2 years.
What ^ he said.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 20, 2020, 06:52:15 AM
Quote
Something interesting i’ve seen with #Jets contracts handed out by Douglas, to this point: Emphasis on 2020 roster bonus with lower signing bonus.
No prorotation on RB like SB. Seems like Douglas is trying to get money paid to guys this year, keeping cap lower in ’21 🤔
Hughes
Post by: dcm1602 on March 20, 2020, 07:51:13 AM
Hughes
If you took a quick look at the contracts, I don't really see where he came to this conclusion.
With McGovern the details aren't out but his contract basically guarantees he's here two years. Poole has a 1 year deal. Farts roster bonus for this year is only 1.6 million (vs a signing bonus of 3 million)
Sure I guess with Alex Lewis they kind of made his roster bonus big this year (essentially half of his paltry 5 million in guarantees) But I wouldn't jump to this conclusion like Hughes has because of that
Had we signed him to a more traditional contract bonus it would effect the cap by less than 1 million in each of the next two years.
Hardly enough to go on
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 23, 2020, 04:58:59 PM
Grade: F.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 23, 2020, 06:05:49 PM
I'm still pissed we didn't overpay 3 free agents as soon as free agency started.
Grade: F.
#FireJoeDouglas
Post by: Johnny English on March 23, 2020, 06:10:50 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 23, 2020, 06:11:14 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 23, 2020, 06:16:32 PM
Let's not get carried away here; our tackles still look pretty awful, and we are picking at #11.Hasn't made a good draft pick yet.
Grade: F.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 23, 2020, 06:28:29 PM
The Doug.
Post by: insanity on March 23, 2020, 06:48:06 PM
Poole and Jenkins combined $10 million.What?!?! That's crazy. Make would have given him 3 years $30MM
The Doug.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 23, 2020, 07:06:27 PM
Let's not get carried away here; our tackles still look pretty awful, and we are picking at #11.
I'm in agreement
I mean Joe Douglas has done a great job so far. But elft and right tackle are glaring needs. If he can do something to improve that the dude gets an A for this offseason
Hes done a great job with the moves he has made.
Post by: reuben on March 23, 2020, 07:12:15 PM
I'm still pissed we didn't overpay 3 free agents as soon as free agency started.
Grade: F.
Man if you're gonna be the Wait-and-See Guy, be the Wait-and-See Guy.
https://youtu.be/e2cjVhUrmII?t=36 (https://youtu.be/e2cjVhUrmII?t=36)
Post by: Pope on March 23, 2020, 07:23:59 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 23, 2020, 07:28:58 PM
Nice that we haven’t signed any mega deals. I bet a bunch of players show up out of shape after smoking weed and eating junk food for a month straightI also like that, outside of the offensive line, we're bringing pretty much everyone back. We should have a good deal of continuity from last season, including on the coaching staff. It's going to be hard to bring guys up to speed in an offseason that is likely to be altered by the virus.
Also, it will be harder for rookies to make instant impacts, so filling all of these holes before the draft is helpful.
Post by: reuben on March 23, 2020, 07:34:56 PM
Nice that we haven’t signed any mega deals. I bet a bunch of players show up out of shape after smoking weed and eating junk food for a month straight
Either that or every player has gained 20 pounds of pure muscle during the quarantine.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 23, 2020, 08:03:07 PM
We still need to see his ability to conduct a draft, but so far, so good.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 23, 2020, 08:12:19 PM
Post by: insanity on March 23, 2020, 10:07:44 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 01, 2020, 03:35:54 PM
Quote
Joe Douglas says Vyncint Smith will have a “real opportunity” in 2020. Also talks highly about Josh Doctson (whom #Jets signed after the year) & Braxton Berrios.
Hughes
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 01, 2020, 03:38:33 PM
Quote
Douglas said he spent a lot of time scouting Perriman. It was his last draft in Baltimore. “You’ve seen in the back half of two years ago in Cleveland, end of this year, you’d be hard-pressed to find a WR with better numbers than Breshad” #Jets
I’ll be honest I completely forgot this guy was in Cleveland
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 01, 2020, 03:39:30 PM
Quote
Joe Douglas said the #Jets did their “due diligence” on trading for Diggs & Hopkins.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 01, 2020, 03:41:43 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 01, 2020, 03:51:24 PM
Hughes
that quote is the first time all offseason i've seen his name spelled correctly lol. all offseason on this board he has been 'vyncynt' if he's not 'vynynyncyntynt'
Post by: Heismanberg on April 01, 2020, 07:57:13 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 01, 2020, 10:38:25 PM
That guy whining about the guaranteed money we spent on offensive linemen is a freaking dunce.
dcm?
Post by: dcm1602 on April 01, 2020, 10:40:32 PM
dcm?
I'll bitch all about the cap
But when it comes to the OL I'm like all the pseudorepublicans in office. Spend everything and not care about future cap hits
Now if we start doing that on the secondary that's a whole different story
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 02, 2020, 10:13:56 AM
I’m very glad to see him still talking about getting better offensive line in front of Sam and playmakers around him. Hopefully his front office can identify and get the players who fit that mold in the draft.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 02, 2020, 10:37:15 AM
On a 10 scale, we went from bunch of 1-5 range players to a bunch of 3-7s.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 02, 2020, 10:39:06 AM
I feel like we didn't get an elite upgrade at any position on the OL, rather just upgraded the whole line, including depth, a couple of notches. It isn't exciting, but it's great. Still have the draft too.
Connor McGovern isn't elite by any means, but he's a massive upgrade over anything we've had at center since Nick Mangold left.
All we need is steady consistency there. I think he'll provide that.
Greg Van Roten gives us a potential starter at either guard spot and some of the best interior depth we've had in a long time.
I like the moves that Douglas is making. The draft provide a lot more insight into his plans for the OL.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 02, 2020, 02:56:41 PM
I feel like we didn't get an elite upgrade at any position on the OL, rather just upgraded the whole line, including depth, a couple of notches. It isn't exciting, but it's great. Still have the draft too.Going from atrocious to mediocre would be a huge upgrade and allow our offense to function a lot better.
On a 10 scale, we went from bunch of 1-5 range players to a bunch of 3-7s.
Plus, if you have a bunch of 3-7 range players, having them compete each other makes it more likely you get that 7 season instead of that 3 season.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 03, 2020, 01:42:23 PM
Going from atrocious to mediocre would be a huge upgrade and allow our offense to function a lot better.
Plus, if you have a bunch of 3-7 range players, having them compete each other makes it more likely you get that 7 season instead of that 3 season.
Going from atrocious to mediocre would be huge. Our offense is going to go through Darnold and Bell, and the OL last year barely gave them a chance to survive, let alone run plays in rhythm without 3 defenders in the backfield off the snap
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 04, 2020, 11:28:23 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 04, 2020, 05:00:57 PM
Going from atrocious to mediocre would be huge. Our offense is going to go through Darnold and Bell, and the OL last year barely gave them a chance to survive, let alone run plays in rhythm without 3 defenders in the backfield off the snap
Given how Darnold has played under ridiculous pressure, it makes me really curious/excited to see him behind a solid OL. We're not there yet, but I really hope we are soon.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 04, 2020, 05:23:07 PM
Given how Darnold has played under ridiculous pressure, it makes me really curious/excited to see him behind a solid OL. We're not there yet, but I really hope we are soon.
I’ve rewatched a few of the 09-10 Jets games with Sanchez at the helm. If that team had Sam instead of Mark (both as a rookie and a sophomore QB) they are hoisting the Lombardi. I fully believe it. The number of plays Mark missed is completely unacceptable. A guy like Sam makes even half of those plays, the margin for error is ten times higher and we likely make one of the necessary comebacks against either the Colts or the Steelers.
Mark made some key throws in big moments to help win all of those games. But he missed so many easy opportunities, that he made those plays mandatory to pull off the upsets. If we ever give Sam a cast of talent like the 2010 Jets gave Sanchez, the only thing that could stop us would be injuries
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 04, 2020, 10:11:09 PM
I’ve rewatched a few of the 09-10 Jets games with Sanchez at the helm. If that team had Sam instead of Mark (both as a rookie and a sophomore QB) they are hoisting the Lombardi. I fully believe it. The number of plays Mark missed is completely unacceptable. A guy like Sam makes even half of those plays, the margin for error is ten times higher and we likely make one of the necessary comebacks against either the Colts or the Steelers.
Mark made some key throws in big moments to help win all of those games. But he missed so many easy opportunities, that he made those plays mandatory to pull off the upsets. If we ever give Sam a cast of talent like the 2010 Jets gave Sanchez, the only thing that could stop us would be injuries
Did you factor in Sam's ghosts?
Post by: insanity on April 05, 2020, 09:39:31 AM
I’ve rewatched a few of the 09-10 Jets games with Sanchez at the helm. If that team had Sam instead of Mark (both as a rookie and a sophomore QB) they are hoisting the Lombardi. I fully believe it. The number of plays Mark missed is completely unacceptable. A guy like Sam makes even half of those plays, the margin for error is ten times higher and we likely make one of the necessary comebacks against either the Colts or the Steelers.Jesus! Thanks for reminding me about how sanchez, for the life of him, couldn't throw a swing route
Mark made some key throws in big moments to help win all of those games. But he missed so many easy opportunities, that he made those plays mandatory to pull off the upsets. If we ever give Sam a cast of talent like the 2010 Jets gave Sanchez, the only thing that could stop us would be injuries
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 06, 2020, 11:34:23 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 06, 2020, 11:46:42 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 07, 2020, 03:39:11 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 07, 2020, 04:41:20 PM
https://twitter.com/mmehtanydn/status/1247482762027765761?s=21
Wow, Maccagnan really had absolutely no clue how to be anything other than an area scout.
Grading and coveting players that do not fit into your coaching staff's schemes is awful roster management.
Post by: Miamipuck on April 07, 2020, 04:44:14 PM
https://twitter.com/mmehtanydn/status/1247482762027765761?s=21
That was a good article, it's about freaking time. It also backs up a belief that a few of us around here think, that besides poor talent evaluation, the coaches suck at coaching draftee's up, further exacerbating the poor drafts.
Post by: Johnny English on April 07, 2020, 05:33:01 PM
Wow, Maccagnan really had absolutely no clue how to be anything other than an area scout.
Grading and coveting players that do not fit into your coaching staff's schemes is awful roster management.
I've never heard of round-specific evaluation. That sounds weird, and not especially useful.
Post by: insanity on April 07, 2020, 07:32:27 PM
I've never heard of round-specific evaluation. That sounds weird, and not especially useful.Could be two thinngs
- Could be a framework to help identify value
- could be an exercise to determine where you should go after certain positions
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 07, 2020, 07:33:48 PM
Could be two thinngs
- Could be a framework to help identify value
- could be an exercise to determine where you should go after certain positions
- could be a reason why we decided to spend a 3rd rounder on jachai polite when just about no other team in the league would have done the same
Post by: Heismanberg on April 07, 2020, 07:45:04 PM
Could be two thinngs
- Could be a framework to help identify value
- could be an exercise to determine where you should go after certain positions
It's an archaic scouting method and it lumps unequal players into the same pool.
Maccagnan and his scouts assigned grades to about 350 players in a draft with 250 picks.
Post by: Miamipuck on April 07, 2020, 08:39:25 PM
The more you hear about Duff the worse that guy gets. I seriously am getting angry hearing how freaking idiotic he was about drafting.
Post by: reuben on April 07, 2020, 08:46:40 PM
https://twitter.com/mmehtanydn/status/1247482762027765761?s=21
It's how New England does it. Belichick's got like twenty players on his list every year, once those are gone he just fucks around trying to break the trade record.
Post by: Johnny English on April 07, 2020, 08:51:52 PM
I just don't undestand how you can grade players without grasping how and where they fit into your schemes and system. That makes no sense at all. Hey lets draft this dude, he's a little too small and not smart enough to grasp the system but he's a great athlete, the BPA available according to my 850 player grading system. Meanwhile there's a player not quite the athlete but smarter and more suited to the system? Wouldn't that make that player the BPA?
The more you hear about Duff the worse that guy gets. I seriously am getting angry hearing how freaking idiotic he was about drafting.
I think that to some extent depends upon how committed you are to your coach. If you're in the situation we are you need to be selecting players who are a little more versatile; if you're Baltimore or Seattle then you can (and probably should) pretty much go as scheme-specific as you like.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 07, 2020, 08:57:28 PM
I think that to some extent depends upon how committed you are to your coach. If you're in the situation we are you need to be selecting players who are a little more versatile; if you're Baltimore or Seattle then you can (and probably should) pretty much go as scheme-specific as you like.
Most coaches will never be successful without the right players.
As average as Adam Gase has been, he clearly saw Mike Maccagnan's flaws and blew the whole thing up. The entire draft room cleared out when Maccagnan selected Trevon Wesco. He was making decisions based on what he felt was best, not what was best for the franchise.
Post by: Pope on April 07, 2020, 09:04:47 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 07, 2020, 09:07:40 PM
Most coaches will never be successful without the right players.
As average as Adam Gase has been, he clearly saw Mike Maccagnan's flaws and blew the whole thing up. The entire draft room cleared out when Maccagnan selected Trevon Wesco. He was making decisions based on what he felt was best, not what was best for the franchise.
Where did you hear/read/see that about the Wesco pick? I mean it made no sense at the time. So I can totally see that being the reaction of several people
It’s kind of crazy that it took Gase to get Mac out the door. In a way, I have to think if we have anyone other than that self-serving derriere-hat Gase, Macc is probably still here now
Post by: Heismanberg on April 07, 2020, 09:12:04 PM
Where did you hear/read/see that about the Wesco pick?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIe-CWSW4AEpqWs?format=jpg&name=medium)
Post by: Libero_2 on April 07, 2020, 09:15:16 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIe-CWSW4AEpqWs?format=jpg&name=medium)
Oh I was thinking there was an article with more details then just the photo
Post by: Heismanberg on April 07, 2020, 09:16:10 PM
Oh I was thinking there was an article with more details then just the photo
There was stuff on Twitter at the time and maybe some articles/blurbs about the coaching staff just completely butting heads with Maccagnan during the draft process.
He basically kept them out of the loop for the most part.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 07, 2020, 10:12:55 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIe-CWSW4AEpqWs?format=jpg&name=medium)
JE told me this was no cause for concern in regards to Duffs job security so I think you’re mistaken
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 07, 2020, 10:14:00 PM
Oh I was thinking there was an article with more details then just the photo
More details: Mike Maccagnan got fired a month later because of how bad he was at drafting
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 07, 2020, 10:15:07 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on April 08, 2020, 01:10:08 AM
I think that to some extent depends upon how committed you are to your coach. If you're in the situation we are you need to be selecting players who are a little more versatile; if you're Baltimore or Seattle then you can (and probably should) pretty much go as scheme-specific as you like.
He was here for 5 years and had Bowles for 4 of them? He should have had players that fit his scheme, how often did people come away from the draft scratching their head because the pick made absolutely no absolute. I just chalked that up to a "well he didn't draft who the poster X wanted" ,type of thing. No, the pick probably made absolutely no sense schematically because it was made with nothing other other than a round grade. Excrement, how many of the picks didn't make sense positionally either. That's a criminal offense for a GM.
MM, can eat a big bag of dicks. He effectively wasted 5 years of our lives.
Post by: insanity on April 08, 2020, 06:18:47 AM
- could be a reason why we decided to spend a 3rd rounder on jachai polite when just about no other team in the league would have done the sameTouche
Post by: insanity on April 08, 2020, 06:22:14 AM
He went all out on his own version of BPA.
Someone forgot to tell him it's the best player based on your team's philosophy not the general grading of all players
Post by: Miamipuck on April 08, 2020, 12:03:36 PM
I get the feeling Duff would have drafted 12 linebackers if they were all good valued for their round.
He went all out on his own version of BPA.
Someone forgot to tell him it's the best player based on your team's philosophy not the general grading of all players
Yes, he would have.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 10, 2020, 09:27:03 PM
The Ravens did not draft a lot receivers when Douglas was a scout there from 2000-2014.
Travis Taylor, Mark Clayton, and Breshad Perriman were the only first round receivers.
Torrey Smith is the only other receiver worth a damn that Baltimore picked. Smith was a second round pick.
Not much value placed on the position by Ozzie Newsome.
Chicago 2015-2016
Daniel Braverman (7th)
(Joe Douglas wasn't hired until after the Kevin White draft. He was still in Baltimore for the Perriman pick.)
Philly 2016-2019
2017 - Mack Hollins (4th) and Shelton Gibson (5th)
2018 - none
2019 - JJ Arcega-Whiteside (2nd)
---
Based off of this history, I'd be very surprised if he doesn't look to take a tackle or a cornerback in the first round. Wideout just seem like a position that he values.
Post by: Jumbo on April 10, 2020, 09:28:27 PM
(1) Who is on the board at 11
(2) How much he wants to establish his own philosophy
He learned from Baltimore + Philly but that doesn't mean he wants to do things exactly the same here.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 10, 2020, 09:31:27 PM
Think it highly depends on
(1) Who is on the board at 11
(2) How much he wants to establish his own philosophy
He learned from Baltimore + Philly but that doesn't mean he wants to do things exactly the same here.
True, but it’s fair to assume that he learns from his mentors and will share similar philosophies, particularly early, and will grow into his own as time goes on
Post by: Jumbo on April 10, 2020, 09:34:47 PM
True, but it’s fair to assume that he learns from his mentors and will share similar philosophies, particularly early, and will grow into his own as time goes on
I don't know why that's the default assumption. All we can really glean about his preferences so far is that he would probably lean to building the trenches first, which was obviously going to be a priority regardless considering the state of the Jets OL before he got here + the Kalil signing.
We did give Perriman $8 million so it's not like he doesn't value WR - and the teams he was on not taking WR doesn't mean they didn't even value WR in the first round necessarily, it could have meant the board had someone else valued higher, it was a weak WR class (since most of his drafts with those teams were higher in the order), etc. The Ravens and Eagles have both taken WR in the first round within the past five drafts, the Ravens just last year did. The Ravens took a WR #10 in Douglas' first year there (who was trash, but still).
Post by: Heismanberg on April 10, 2020, 11:07:49 PM
We did give Perriman $8 million so it's not like he doesn't value WR
It's $6.5M for only one year and he refused to budge on his offer to Robby Anderson.
There's been no commitment at all from JD at receiver. He traded for Bay-Bay Thomas when Enunwa got hurt. He claimed Braxton Berrios off of waivers and he signed Vyncint Smith off of Houston's practice squad. These moves and the Breshad Perriman and Josh Doctson signings are it. Uninspiring. He very well may be gearing up to draft several receivers...but I'll be surprised if he spend #11 on one.
Demaryius Thomas
Breshad Perriman
Braxton Berrios
Vyncint Smith
Josh Doctson
Based on the results of the tree that he comes from, receiver is not a high value position for them in the draft. The only time Ozzie truly went for it with receiver was Travis Taylor. They traded up for him and he was average.
Post by: Jumbo on April 10, 2020, 11:21:40 PM
It's $6.5M for only one year and he refused to budge on his offer to Robby Anderson.
There's been no commitment at all from JD at receiver. He traded for Bay-Bay Thomas when Enunwa got hurt. He claimed Braxton Berrios off of waivers and he signed Vyncint Smith off of Houston's practice squad. These moves and the Breshad Perriman and Josh Doctson signings are it. Uninspiring. He very well may be gearing up to draft several receivers...but I'll be surprised if he spend #11 on one.
Demaryius Thomas
Breshad Perriman
Braxton Berrios
Vyncint Smith
Josh Doctson
Based on the results of the tree that he comes from, receiver is not a high value position for them in the draft. The only time Ozzie truly went for it with receiver was Travis Taylor. They traded up for him and he was average.
Baltimore took 3 first round receivers in 15 years there. One every five years is not a low rate for an NFL team. Ozzie's successor, who arguably would be even more influenced by him, took a receiver with his first ever pick.
I'm just not convinced by this. Hell, him not signing anyone outside of Perriman this offseason while losing Anderson could be seen as evidence that we're targeting a receiver if anything.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 10, 2020, 11:52:41 PM
Baltimore took 3 first round receivers in 15 years there.
And they all stunk, including Perriman.
Out of 142 draft picks from 2000-2015, the Ravens drafted 19 receivers. 3 in the first round, 1 in the second round, 2 in the third round, 4 in the fourth round, 1 in the fifth round, 4 in the sixth round, and 4 in the seventh round.
15 of 19 were picked in the third round or later.
Again, aside from Travis Taylor, Ozzie Newsome did not see much value in the receiver position in the draft. It's obvious in his draft history. If you go back to 1996 through 2018, the numbers keep building. The majority of receivers that he drafted were selected in the 4th-6th rounds.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 11, 2020, 02:28:59 AM
Douglas can't go into the season with the WR room looking like it is now. We need to make a significant investment at the position in the draft in the first two days, whether it is at 11 or not.
Post by: Pope on April 12, 2020, 06:56:01 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 12, 2020, 06:58:12 PM
My source inside the organization tells me the Jets/Douglas have Derrick Brown and Javon Kinlaw at #1 and #2 on their draft board
Per Justin Gray, this is correct
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 14, 2020, 02:05:52 PM
Post by: Coach K on April 16, 2020, 05:04:37 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 21, 2020, 10:00:29 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 21, 2020, 10:16:46 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 21, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3ofSBs4Q1f8Q4aRFkc/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a7d8015a9a7fdbe2c47377cf7282bd61ab4fec8c5&rid=giphy.gif)
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 21, 2020, 10:42:45 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 21, 2020, 10:48:12 AM
The roster is going to be 45% guards by the time training camp rolls around.Another one.
They can double as a fullback.
Post by: Italian Seafood on April 21, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
I expect him to mine for some UDFA OL gold after the draft too
It's supposed to be his expertise, let's hope so.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 21, 2020, 10:57:02 AM
It's supposed to be his expertise, let's hope so.Plot twist: Douglas signs himself as our new RG.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 21, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
Plot twist: Douglas signs himself as our new RG.
He'd be just as effective as Ryan Kalil
Post by: Johnny English on April 21, 2020, 11:18:21 AM
I expect him to mine for some UDFA OL gold after the draft too
If he finds an OL in UDFA who is capable of being anything more than an oversized full back he's a magician. I just don't understand how 32 scouting teams can all miss a player capable of starting in such a valued and technical position to the extent that they don't have him on a draft board.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 21, 2020, 11:21:54 AM
If he finds an OL in UDFA who is capable of being anything more than an oversized full back he's a magician. I just don't understand how 32 scouting teams can all miss a player capable of starting in such a valued and technical position to the extent that they don't have him on a draft board.
Jason Peters was undrafted
Post by: Johnny English on April 21, 2020, 11:25:31 AM
Jason Peters was undrafted
So were Alejandro Villanueva and Andrew Norwell. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't understand why or how it does.
Post by: Italian Seafood on April 21, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
So were Alejandro Villanueva and Andrew Norwell. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't understand why or how it does.
Because the draft is a gigantic crapshoot, especially after the first round or so when the sure things are gone.
Post by: MBGreen on April 21, 2020, 11:52:06 AM
Because the draft is a gigantic crapshoot, especially after the first round or so when the sure things are gone.
lol...right in the nick of time.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 21, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
If he finds an OL in UDFA who is capable of being anything more than an oversized full back he's a magician. I just don't understand how 32 scouting teams can all miss a player capable of starting in such a valued and technical position to the extent that they don't have him on a draft board.
Maybe they have bad wifi scouting all their olqywew over Skype
Post by: Heismanberg on April 21, 2020, 12:28:18 PM
So were Alejandro Villanueva and Andrew Norwell. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't understand why or how it does.
Because teams have regional scouts and a lot of them are in place because of who they know, not what they know.
Some of them are still exceptional talent evaluators, but a lot of them do not know the nuances of certain positions. You can't expect them to be experts for every position. It's not the best system.
Most college programs do it better. They assign positional coaches to scout that talent after their recruiting team finds them.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 21, 2020, 12:32:18 PM
Because the draft is a gigantic crapshoot
It's not though. You've gotta stop this excrement.
It's an inconsistent science that cannot be mastered.
General managers have an entire staff in place to find these players. They put their blind faith in these scouts who may or may not know what in the hell they are talking about.
Terry Bradway was so awful, that no one in the room believed him when he was standing on the table for Russell Wilson.
Post by: Johnny English on April 21, 2020, 12:42:36 PM
Because teams have regional scouts and a lot of them are in place because of who they know, not what they know.
Some of them are still exceptional talent evaluators, but a lot of them do not know the nuances of certain positions. You can't expect them to be experts for every position. It's not the best system.
Most college programs do it better. They assign positional coaches to scout that talent after their recruiting team finds them.
I can completely understand how a team can miss out on a player. I can't get my head round how all 32 can misread a player who becomes a Pro Bowl starting talent. My only answer to this is what I've been saying all along about Maccagnan (and by extension other GMs who are seen as hopeless drafters): they are at the mercy of their coaching staff's ability to actually develop players correctly. Which is why teams like Pittsburgh and New England and Green Bay consistently find quality starters from late rounds and UDFA markets, it's not because they draft better than other teams but because they coach and develop the players they draft better than other teams.
Until we have good coaching we're going to continue to have excrement drafting, which is why I can't get excited about Douglas yet. I believe there's a very decent chance that his career gets fucked up by the coaching staff mangling whatever he gives them to work with, at least on the offensive side.
Post by: Miamipuck on April 21, 2020, 01:38:41 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 21, 2020, 01:39:17 PM
Which is why teams like Pittsburgh and New England and Green Bay consistently find quality starters from late rounds and UDFA markets
These teams really don't have that much success with UDFAs.
They all have or have had franchise quarterbacks. That covers up a lot of faults.
Post by: Miamipuck on April 21, 2020, 01:47:11 PM
So that would agree with JE's point that the so called better talent evaluators just get the right players to their coaches and they're coached up.
It's a whole lot easier having a coach for 10 or 15 years with a proven system and scout for that system. Of course, the last idiot would have fucked that up regardless.
Post by: Johnny English on April 21, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
These teams really don't have that much success with UDFAs.
They all have or have had franchise quarterbacks. That covers up a lot of faults.
Villanueva, David Andrews and Lane Taylor were top of mind when I went with those teams. All quality OL starters.
Take your point about the QBs, but they also all have good coaching systems that gets the best out of players.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 21, 2020, 01:51:51 PM
The Patriots also had a tendency to miss on a lot of early picks, and kind of just cycled through players (giving more guys more opportunities)
Obviously it worked for them, but I think their numbers and data are just skewed that's all
Post by: Italian Seafood on April 21, 2020, 03:09:05 PM
It's not though. You've gotta stop this excrement.
It's an inconsistent science that cannot be mastered.
General managers have an entire staff in place to find these players. They put their blind faith in these scouts who may or may not know what in the hell they are talking about.
Terry Bradway was so awful, that no one in the room believed him when he was standing on the table for Russell Wilson.
I don't dispute any of this, I'm not saying these guys don't research it and just throw darts. But calling it "an inconsistent science that cannot be mastered" is just a more eloquent way of saying the same thing. I'm basing it on the end results, not the preparation. Over 45 years of being a Jets fan has jaded me, I'll give you that.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 21, 2020, 03:19:29 PM
Villanueva
Everyone knew about him. He was an insane red zone player for Army. NFL teams tend to shy away from service academy players because they have to serve, more often than not.
Pretty sure he came into the league as tight end or defensive end. He wasn't signed as an offensive tackle that's for sure.
He is the perfect example of great coaching.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 22, 2020, 07:59:15 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 22, 2020, 08:26:40 AM
Brian Waters - undrafted, TE convert
Post by: Heismanberg on April 24, 2020, 12:09:18 AM
Listening to him talk actual football in interviews is so refreshing after what we had to endure with Mike Maccagnan.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 24, 2020, 12:24:51 AM
Post by: Pope on April 24, 2020, 12:27:36 AM
Post by: MBGreen on April 24, 2020, 07:10:37 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 24, 2020, 07:34:01 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 24, 2020, 08:43:33 AM
Quote
Joe Douglas draft picks: 1
Joe Douglas trade value chart points invested into OL: 1,250
Mike Maccagnan draft picks: 34
Mike Maccagnan trade value chart points invested into OL: 188
Nania
Post by: Heismanberg on April 24, 2020, 08:45:43 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 24, 2020, 08:48:26 AM
Nania..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/a3fc7c96e013704049025bd78632d665.gif)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 24, 2020, 10:47:50 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 24, 2020, 10:48:52 AM
..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/a3fc7c96e013704049025bd78632d665.gif)
Go get me Robert Hunt today and I will be a damn happy man
Post by: Italian Seafood on April 24, 2020, 11:34:01 AM
I freaking love Joe Douglas
He's one for one.
Post by: Johnny English on April 24, 2020, 11:42:53 AM
He's one for one.
So was Maccagnan in the first round.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 24, 2020, 11:52:10 AM
We haven't been successful in these rounds for a long time and it's a big reason (the biggest IMO) why we are in the spot we're in.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 24, 2020, 12:00:42 PM
Rounds 2-4 are most important for our team right now.
We haven't been successful in these rounds for a long time and it's a big reason (the biggest IMO) why we are in the spot we're in.
I wouldn't be disappointed in the least if we went 3 offense and 1 defense in the next 4 picks.
I had an entertaining mock from TDN today
48 - Denzel Mims
68 - Tee Higgins
79 - Jonathan Greenard
120 - Matt Hennessy
There's no shot in hell happens. Hell I don't think a single one of those players is even on the board at that selection. But imagine if it did....
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 24, 2020, 12:46:40 PM
So was Maccagnan in the first round.
Not true at all
Post by: MBGreen on April 24, 2020, 12:48:23 PM
Post by: Johnny English on April 24, 2020, 12:51:48 PM
Not true at all
17 and 18 were slam dunks. 19 is a bit too early to tell, you can make an argument that we should have taken Allen but at the time plenty of people were saying that Quinnen was the best player in the draft, same with Leonard in '15. The only one you can really pick fault with is Lee in '16 and it's not like a bunch of great players were taken after him; we just picked up the guy who was taken two spots later as a free agent, and then you have to go a number of spots into the second round to get to Xavien Howard as the first guy to make you think "wish we'd taken him at #20 instead".
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 24, 2020, 01:38:19 PM
I'd love to see him manage a starting WR and corner in the middle rounds, and a developmental EDGE and IOL somewhere in the draft. That would be pretty cool.
And also: PAY. JAMAL.
Post by: Badger on April 24, 2020, 05:06:00 PM
What a difference from Maccagnan, Idzik, Tannenbaum, Bradway.
1 round into Tannenbaum's first draft we had acquired Brick and Mangold, two of the best Jets in team history, so he had a pretty good start too.
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 24, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
i don't care what people say about the lay fan, yeah a majority are dumb and a majority of the FO people in pro sports absolutely deserve to be there, but you'll still be able to find instances where people in pro sports make horrible decisions that even your average joe fan wouldn't make
i remember being a dumb derriere teenager, hearing that deal, and going, 'what the freak? why?'
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 24, 2020, 05:18:59 PM
remember when we traded out of a first round pick just to pick up doug freaking jolley
i don't care what people say about the lay fan, yeah a majority are dumb and a majority of the FO people in pro sports absolutely deserve to be there, but you'll still be able to find instances where people in pro sports make horrible decisions that even your average joe fan wouldn't make
i remember being a dumb derriere teenager, hearing that deal, and going, 'what the freak? why?'
And then we took Mike Nugent and Justin Miller. In that order.
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 24, 2020, 05:21:07 PM
And then we took Mike Nugent and Justin Miller. In that order.
lmfao
i actually liked justin miller a lot.......but we fuckin drafted mike nugent before we felt it necessary to secure miller. what the fck
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 24, 2020, 07:25:14 PM
Post by: Johnny English on April 24, 2020, 07:31:13 PM
He knows how to trade down, which makes this a positive.
Hard disagree, it's literally the easiest thing in the world to do.
Post by: Coach K on April 24, 2020, 08:19:33 PM
Bought a new car that is a dark metallic green similar to our colors and im going to name it Mr Douglas
Post by: MexJetinBcn on April 24, 2020, 08:20:15 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 24, 2020, 08:20:37 PM
I wanted Mims at 48. We traded down and STILL got him.
Love that I'm getting irrationally excited about a new GM again. Hopefully these picks work out.
Post by: Badger on April 24, 2020, 08:20:48 PM
8 love Joe douglasVanity plate BIGDIKDUG
Bought a new car that is a dark metallic green similar to our colors and im going to name it Mr Douglas
Post by: Coach K on April 24, 2020, 08:21:52 PM
Joe Douglas is an Ozzie Newsome disciple and it shows.
Post by: MBGreen on April 24, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
Post by: Pope on April 24, 2020, 08:27:18 PM
Post by: Badger on April 24, 2020, 08:27:31 PM
#godkingYou're gonna make JE grumpy if you praise the GM too much
Post by: MBGreen on April 24, 2020, 08:29:43 PM
You're gonna make JE grumpy if you praise the GM too muchOne of my favorite pastimes
Post by: Coach K on April 24, 2020, 08:40:25 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on April 24, 2020, 08:58:38 PM
Post by: Coach K on April 24, 2020, 09:01:31 PM
He can even play CB too imo
Post by: Johnny English on April 24, 2020, 09:11:33 PM
You're gonna make JE grumpy if you praise the GM too much
If Mims a) sucks or b) spends most of the season injured then Douglas has literally done the same thing Maccagnan got hammered for - take the obvious first round pick, select a second round WR bust and then take a punt on BPA at a position we don't need in the third. But sure, let's be excited now with absolutely no justification, it's more fun than being honest. We'll revisit this if it comes true and if it doesn't then we're all happy campers.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 24, 2020, 09:14:21 PM
If Mims a) sucks or b) spends most of the season injured then Douglas has literally done the same thing Maccagnan got hammered for - take the obvious first round pick, select a second round WR bust and then take a punt on BPA at a position we don't need in the third. But sure, let's be excited now with absolutely no justification, it's more fun than being honest. We'll revisit this if it comes true and if it doesn't then we're all happy campers.
Why not just have fun?
Post by: Johnny English on April 24, 2020, 09:15:56 PM
Why not just have fun?
I am having fun, I'm just not in the business of deluding myself like a hormonal teenage girl. "OMIGOD I LOVE HIM SO MUCH I'M GOING TO BE WITH HIM FOREVER!!!!"
Post by: MBGreen on April 24, 2020, 09:16:01 PM
Why not just have fun?Lmao
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 24, 2020, 09:17:53 PM
I am having fun, I'm just not in the business of deluding myself like a hormonal teenage girl. "OMIGOD I LOVE HIM SO MUCH I'M GOING TO BE WITH HIM FOREVER!!!!"
Congrats I guess. Enjoy the extra inch on your boner.
Post by: Johnny English on April 24, 2020, 09:20:22 PM
Congrats I guess. Enjoy the extra inch on your boner.
Literally doubled in size
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 24, 2020, 09:21:04 PM
Literally doubled in size
*Enjoy the extra half inch to your boner.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 24, 2020, 11:07:40 PM
Post by: Jumbo on April 24, 2020, 11:11:22 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 24, 2020, 11:13:22 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 24, 2020, 11:13:33 PM
Then Joe Douglas gets hired in June, and we make two trades with the Patriots.
HE AIN'T SCARED.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 24, 2020, 11:21:00 PM
Since the Bill Belichick trade happened, the Jets and Pats did not make a single trade from 2000-18.
Then Joe Douglas gets hired in June, and we make two trades with the Patriots.
HE AIN'T SCARED.
I think he gets the idea that he has to do what’s best for the Jets. Who gives a freak if it helps the Pats or any other team get better. If we can take a step forward by making these moves he needs to do so.
Glad he’s not afraid to do so
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 24, 2020, 11:23:19 PM
Round 2: A+
Round 3: C
Post by: Heismanberg on April 25, 2020, 12:01:33 AM
Potentially 4 prospects from one deal.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 25, 2020, 12:10:20 AM
Pick 48 turned into Denzel Mims, Pick 125, Pick 129, and a 2021 6th rounder.And some of us (me) would have been happy if we just took Mims at 48!
Potentially 4 prospects from one deal.
Awesome job by JD.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 25, 2020, 12:45:14 AM
https://www.newyorkjets.com/audio/jets-draft-press-conference-4-24-2020-nfl-draft
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 25, 2020, 01:10:40 AM
my preferred draft wish list for us is increasingly becoming any of the top OTs in the 1st (becton/wills/wirfs), mims in the 2nd, and a center and one of a WR/CB/RB/EDGE with the two 3rds
this was a post from the OL thread a few days ago
i was over the moon with the first 2 picks. i didn't know much about our 3rd rounders but i'm not going to know everything, and i don't think i really have room to complain given that Joe D addressed positions that I felt we had needs at that should be addressed with those picks (an EDGE in zuniga and a DB in davis that'll have special teams usage as well as providing depth at safety and potential use as a nickel/dime back).
it would be fair to have qualms with the last 2 picks because of other prospects we may have passed up. we have a lot of picks tomorrow so i'd like to wait and see how things turn out
overall i am happy. i think we have helped sam greatly with our first 2 rounds.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 25, 2020, 01:23:44 AM
this was a post from the OL thread a few days agoThe first two picks were the most important ones, and I think we nailed them.
i was over the moon with the first 2 picks. i didn't know much about our 3rd rounders but i'm not going to know everything, and i don't think i really have room to complain given that Joe D addressed positions that I felt we had needs at that should be addressed with those picks (an EDGE in zuniga and a DB in davis that'll have special teams usage as well as providing depth at safety and potential use as a nickel/dime back).
it would be fair to have qualms with the last 2 picks because of other prospects we may have passed up. we have a lot of picks tomorrow so i'd like to wait and see how things turn out
overall i am happy. i think we have helped sam greatly with our first 2 rounds.
I was hoping to get a third offensive player on Day 1, but our two premium picks were both offensive players at our biggest needs. But what makes me really not worry about that is picking up TWO extra 4th-round picks. Prime gord territory.
Post by: Italian Seafood on April 25, 2020, 02:54:30 AM
this was a post from the OL thread a few days ago
i was over the moon with the first 2 picks. i didn't know much about our 3rd rounders but i'm not going to know everything, and i don't think i really have room to complain given that Joe D addressed positions that I felt we had needs at that should be addressed with those picks (an EDGE in zuniga and a DB in davis that'll have special teams usage as well as providing depth at safety and potential use as a nickel/dime back).
it would be fair to have qualms with the last 2 picks because of other prospects we may have passed up. we have a lot of picks tomorrow so i'd like to wait and see how things turn out
overall i am happy. i think we have helped sam greatly with our first 2 rounds.
Yeah, agree with all this.
Was working tonight, how was the thick girl on the couch talent?
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 25, 2020, 03:02:37 AM
Yeah, agree with all this.
Was working tonight, how was the thick girl on the couch talent?
i've only been sporadically checking in from work tonight as well and couldn't get to watch much, but the talent didn't look as good from what i saw. looked sloppier
Post by: Italian Seafood on April 25, 2020, 03:05:56 AM
i've only been sporadically checking in from work tonight as well and couldn't get to watch much, but the talent didn't look as good from what i saw. looked sloppier
Makes sense, we're getting out of guaranteed contract and big signing bonus range. I'm working all day tomorrow so will again be relegated to radio.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 25, 2020, 10:03:45 PM
Have to imagine no freaking rookies are going to hold out over offsets and bullshit
Of course I don't know how physicals will come into play
Post by: insanity on April 25, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
That being said, I'm ecstatic with Joe's understanding of value and his willingness to trade down and acquire more capital.
Going into the offseason I didnt believe it would be possible to have acquired as much depth as we have in various positions.
- Our o-line now has 7 feasible starters
- we've doubled the amount of capable starters at cb
- we've got depth at safety with speed and versatility
If we can sign a vet at wr, cb, and olb this team can compete
Post by: Coach K on April 26, 2020, 05:56:08 AM
A+ offseason
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 26, 2020, 07:36:35 AM
Quote
Joe Douglas said the #Jets “took what the board gave us,” which is why they didn’t take any other WRs after Mims.
Post by: Badger on April 26, 2020, 08:56:08 AM
I wonder how quickly guys will sign their contracts because of coronavirus.Did you see some of the houses they got drafted in? They're not exactly living out of their cars.
Have to imagine no freaking rookies are going to hold out over offsets and bullshit
Of course I don't know how physicals will come into play
Post by: Pope on April 26, 2020, 09:50:41 AM
Did you see some of the houses they got drafted in? They're not exactly living out of their cars.I assumed those were rented
Post by: Italian Seafood on April 26, 2020, 12:51:07 PM
Probably smart. Late rounds take the best players with the best chance of making the team and helping you. I'd think position is a lesser factor at that point.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 26, 2020, 06:11:06 PM
In these trades, the Jets turned the No. 48 pick into picks 59, 125, and 129 in 2020, plus a 2021 sixth-round pick.
https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/status/1254498140553719810?s=21
Joe Douglas wins
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 26, 2020, 06:21:50 PM
He drafted at wide receiver, corner, and EDGE.
He picked a couple of developmental players. And traded down.
I wouldn't have picked a QB or punter, but whatever. Everything is wait-and-see, but so far, this offseason has been pretty good to me. I'm completely in the pro-Joe crowd right now.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 26, 2020, 06:35:08 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 26, 2020, 07:39:14 PM
The punter pick was glorious. Duff wouldn’t have the balls.Sarcasm?
Post by: Johnny English on April 26, 2020, 07:42:19 PM
Sarcasm?
I can't imagine Maccagnan selecting a specialist with a draft pick, he didn't seem to place much value on them. That said, Mann wasn't a reach - four punters in the last two years were taken with earlier picks than the one we used.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 26, 2020, 07:44:46 PM
I can't imagine Maccagnan selecting a specialist with a draft pick, he didn't seem to place much value on them. That said, Mann wasn't a reach - four punters in the last two years were taken with earlier picks than the one we used.Lachlan Edwards was our 7th round pick in 2016.
Post by: Johnny English on April 26, 2020, 07:45:20 PM
Lachlan Edwards was our 7th round pick in 2016.
Yeah but still
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 26, 2020, 07:56:25 PM
Lachlan Edwards was our 7th round pick in 2016.
It felt like Lachlan was here 10 years.
IIRC, we also got an undrafted punter from a US college that at the time most of the beat writers thought had a better chance to make the team
Post by: Italian Seafood on April 26, 2020, 08:07:02 PM
It felt like Lachlan was here 10 years.
He probably had enough punts to last us for ten years.
Post by: Johnny English on April 26, 2020, 08:13:18 PM
He probably had enough punts to last us for ten years.
He's the punter equivalent of the running back with 400 carries a year.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 26, 2020, 09:52:59 PM
Not an unreasonable take. I'd certainly rather have gone back to back wideouts than draft Zumba
Post by: Heismanberg on April 26, 2020, 09:57:23 PM
I've seen some talking heads criticize Joe Douglas for only drafting one wideout in possibly the best wt class ever
Not an unreasonable take. I'd certainly rather have gone back to back wideouts than draft Zumba
Next year’s receiver class is better
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 26, 2020, 10:32:28 PM
Next year’s receiver class is better
Yuppp
Post by: dcm1602 on April 27, 2020, 12:01:53 AM
Next year’s receiver class is better
At the top?
Deeper?
Post by: Miamipuck on April 27, 2020, 12:32:13 AM
At the top?
Deeper?
Yes
Post by: dcm1602 on April 27, 2020, 12:50:56 AM
Yes
Harder? Faster?
Post by: MBGreen on April 27, 2020, 07:34:29 AM
Next year’s receiver class is better#JamarrChaseSZN
Post by: Gorilla on April 27, 2020, 10:53:35 AM
Next year’s receiver class is better
Yep.
Chase > any WR in this class
Also,
Lawrence > any QB
Sewell > any OT since maybe Orlando Pace
Post by: Johnny English on April 27, 2020, 10:58:12 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on April 27, 2020, 02:33:09 PM
Jets exercised the fifth-year option for S Jamal Adams.
The 24-year-old play-maker is already one of the league's best safeties. Adams has been vocal about wanting a new deal, and he's currently not reporting to the team's voluntary virtual offseason program. Reports have indicated the Jets will be slow playing this process, meaning a new deal before the season is far from likely for the stud safety.
Post by: delavan on April 28, 2020, 11:50:33 PM
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/new-york-jets-nfl-draft-class-2020
BEST PICK: MEKHI BECTON
Douglas signed several free agent offensive linemen to help solve New York’s issues up front and was wise to continue investing in protection for Darnold via the draft. Darnold was sacked on 7% of his dropbacks, and his ball security issues didn’t go away as a sophomore; it’s a problem that dates back to college.
Darnold needs a strong line to develop and reach his ceiling. Becton is a rare talent in terms of size, power and mobility. He can blast open holes in the run game and he’s a lot for pass rushers to get around. Credit to Douglas for understanding the depth of the wide receiver class and waiting until Day 2 to add a weapon while prioritizing the offensive line with the eleventh-overall pick.
BIGGEST SURPRISE: BRYCE HALL SLIDING
Hall was perceived by some to be the first cornerback drafted in 2019, but he opted to return to Virginia for his senior season. Unfortunately, his season ended prematurely after suffering a serious left ankle injury in October. In an unusual draft cycle, where the normal medical checks were unavailable for teams, that injury absolutely played into his slide down the board.
Hall is a long, rangy corner with terrific ball skills, zone awareness and football character. He is a converted wide receiver and is still developing as a defensive back, but his transition has been promising. Hall deserved to be picked much higher, and the Jets landed a steal at No. 158.
DAY 3 SLEEPER: CAMERON CLARK
Clark was my favorite sleeper offensive linemen entering the draft. He was a 35-game starter in college and Charlotte’s offensive MVP in 2017 as well as a team captain in 2018 and 2019. He is highly regarded for his leadership and football character, something that appeared to be a notable theme in nearly all of Douglas’ selections.
Despite coming from Conference USA, Clark proved he belongs after dominating Clemson defensive linemen when he got the chance to play the Tigers in 2019. He is a mauler in the run game with heavy hands and a powerful core. Clark has some technique items to clean up in pass protection, but everything is correctable in terms of his hand and footwork. He profiles as an eventual impact starter.
X-FACTOR: ASHTYN DAVIS
This selection caught some by surprise, given the stellar safety tandem of Jamal Adams and Marcus Maye that is already in place. Perhaps there is some foresight to be mindful of in this selection given both Maye and Adams are due for new contracts in the very near future but it’s exciting to think about the schematic options this new trio of safeties provide.
Davis is a rangy centerfielder that thrives in single-high safety defenses where his range and ball skills shine. This could allow Adams and Maye to defend split zones and have more opportunities to secure coverage spacing underneath Davis. The arrival of Davis enables Maye and Davis’ versatility to be fully taken advantage of.
SUMMARY
The Jets assembled arguably the best draft class in the NFL. Every pick was a plus value at positions of need with prospects I like. Douglas collected an impressive haul of talented players to help set the course of the team moving forward. In an AFC East that no longer includes Tom Brady, New York did well to position itself to compete as the 2020 class develops.
Post by: bojanglesman on June 05, 2020, 08:52:22 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 15, 2020, 04:23:24 PM
something's cookin
Post by: Badger on August 15, 2020, 04:45:23 PM
https://twitter.com/KristianRDyer/status/1294734994636775425?s=20Cursed nickname
something's cookin
Post by: MBGreen on August 15, 2020, 04:51:10 PM
Cursed nicknameYes
Post by: Badger on August 15, 2020, 06:13:10 PM
https://twitter.com/GamingByJG5/status/1294756649320820736?s=19
Post by: Libero_2 on August 15, 2020, 06:25:26 PM
Turns out it's just Dyer being a lady garden
https://twitter.com/GamingByJG5/status/1294756649320820736?s=19
That’s less exciting
Post by: Heismanberg on August 15, 2020, 06:59:06 PM
Turns out it's just Dyer being a lady garden
https://twitter.com/GamingByJG5/status/1294756649320820736?s=19
I am proudly blocked by Justin Gray.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 15, 2020, 08:31:12 PM
I am proudly blocked by Justin Gray.
This guy is grifting as a gamer now instead of an NFL insider? Gotta respect that he’s still married and has 2 dogs
Post by: Heismanberg on August 15, 2020, 08:36:01 PM
This guy is grifting as a gamer now instead of an NFL insider?
So he's still unemployed?
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 15, 2020, 08:37:39 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 15, 2020, 09:06:46 PM
Who the freak is Justin Gray?
One time Manish called him a loser on twitter so he started sending him bikini pictures of his wife
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 15, 2020, 09:15:17 PM
One time Manish called him a loser on twitter so he started sending him bikini pictures of his wife
Is he the inverse of Ted Cruz?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 16, 2020, 11:24:46 AM
Quote
With Vyncint Smith and Denzel Mims out, the #Jets starting WRs as they open team drills are Breshad Perriman and Jeff Smith.
lol
Post by: bojanglesman on August 16, 2020, 11:29:07 AM
lolInjyryi
Post by: Badger on August 16, 2020, 12:42:12 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 29, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 29, 2020, 02:54:50 PM
I’m dying to be wrong about the approach at WR, but this reeks of us going into Mark Sanchez’s 3rd year with Wayne Hunter at RT
This position thus far has not been handled well. Barring everyone coming back from injury before the bye week and staying healthy throughout the season, the WR management this season is going to be a massive letdown.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 29, 2020, 03:00:47 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on August 29, 2020, 03:13:04 PM
At least we have Herndon and Griffin returning, and Wesco appears to have taken some strides as a pass catcher. I wouldn’t be shocked to have all three of them on the field at once.
At this rate it might be our base offense
Post by: Heismanberg on August 29, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
I’m dying to be wrong about the approach at WR, but this reeks of us going into Mark Sanchez’s 3rd year with Wayne Hunter at RT
Heavy emphasis was placed on the OL. Can't fix it all at once, unfortunately.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 29, 2020, 03:40:58 PM
Heavy emphasis was placed on the OL. Can't fix it all at once, unfortunately.
Conversely, I think Douglas has done a great job at OL within a short period of time and with limited resources. If it had to be OL or WR, I’m glad we addressed OL first
Post by: Johnny English on August 29, 2020, 04:35:43 PM
If it had to be OL or WR, I’m glad we addressed OL first
Did it have to be though? Feels like we should be able to do more than one thing at a time. I don't think I'm asking a lot.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 29, 2020, 05:10:44 PM
Did it have to be though? Feels like we should be able to do more than one thing at a time. I don't think I'm asking a lot.
No. We could have spent another pick at WR instead of Zuniga, Perine, or James Morgan
We also could have easily afforded to sign both Perriman and Robbie
Post by: Johnny English on August 29, 2020, 05:17:28 PM
No. We could have spent another pick at WR instead of Zuniga, Perine, or James Morgan
We also could have easily afforded to sign both Perriman and Robbie
Yes. Letting Robby walk seemed like a pretty dumb move. I hear the "he's not a #1" arguments but he was still pretty good, and he had good chemistry with Sam on the odd occasion that they were allowed to demonstrate it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 29, 2020, 07:06:01 PM
We talk for years about getting weapons around Sam, and this is what we go into the season with at WR. It's disappointing right now.
That said, Perriman and Mims should both be ready for Week 1. At least I hope..
Post by: Libero_2 on August 29, 2020, 09:27:06 PM
I would feel so much better had we taken one more mid-round WR with any of our picks after Mims. We had a lot of picks and we only took one WR when helping Sam is more important than anything.
We talk for years about getting weapons around Sam, and this is what we go into the season with at WR. It's disappointing right now.
That said, Perriman and Mims should both be ready for Week 1. At least I hope..
I’m not worried about Perriman, he should be healthy enough to go. Moms on the other hand may be healthy enough to go, but he has missed so much practice time, how ready to contribute will he be? Based on his running today I hope he’s going to be out there on Monday or Tuesday. But if he isn’t able to go next week for whatever reason, I don’t know that he will get enough time to get ready to do much early in the season.
I say this as one of the biggest Mims supporters pre-draft. I think the guy has some serious game, and has a chance to be really good for us. But with only 2 weeks of on field reps with Sam before week 1 (having zero offseason reps to work with post draft except sams passing camp for 2 days or whatever it was) that’s not much to go off of for a guy who wasn’t considered an elite prospect ala Jeudy, Lamb and Ruggs
Post by: Heismanberg on August 29, 2020, 09:38:52 PM
I'll let Douglas do his thing for now. Maccagnan came in, spent a ton of money, and drafted horribly. Douglas seems to be a smart negotiator in free agency and he is not afraid to move around in the draft.
He's had to tear down a disaster of a roster put together by Maccagnan. It's going to take two or three years to right this ship.
With that said, he needs to make another few moves at wideout before the season starts.
Post by: Badger on August 29, 2020, 09:51:14 PM
I’m not worried about Perriman, he should be healthy enough to go. Moms on the other hand may be healthy enough to go, but he has missed so much practice time, how ready to contribute will he be? Based on his running today I hope he’s going to be out there on Monday or Tuesday. But if he isn’t able to go next week for whatever reason, I don’t know that he will get enough time to get ready to do much early in the season.This mf said Moms
I say this as one of the biggest Mims supporters pre-draft. I think the guy has some serious game, and has a chance to be really good for us. But with only 2 weeks of on field reps with Sam before week 1 (having zero offseason reps to work with post draft except sams passing camp for 2 days or whatever it was) that’s not much to go off of for a guy who wasn’t considered an elite prospect ala Jeudy, Lamb and Ruggs
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 29, 2020, 12:21:29 PM
Quote
Michael Nania (@Michael_Nania) Tweeted:
Josh Allen is an MVP candidate, Darnold is ranked last in QBR, Robby Anderson is 6th in receiving yards, Jamal is 3-0... this is the darkest timeline
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1310588196141576193?s=20 (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1310588196141576193?s=20)
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 29, 2020, 01:02:21 PM
Yes. Letting Robby walk seemed like a pretty dumb move. I hear the "he's not a #1" arguments but he was still pretty good, and he had good chemistry with Sam on the odd occasion that they were allowed to demonstrate it.
He would be the #1 here.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 29, 2020, 01:58:09 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 29, 2020, 02:04:48 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2020, 02:29:06 PM
Every time I think of that quote before the year of Douglas promising Darnold's parents he would get help around Darnold, I get annoyed.
The last time we had a GM who stripped the roster and stockpiled cap space and picks, he drafted 12 players and we went 4-12. Apparently we're not yet at the stage where we're allowed to question Douglas though.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 29, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
The last time we had a GM who stripped the roster and stockpiled cap space and picks, he drafted 12 players and we went 4-12. Apparently we're not yet at the stage where we're allowed to question Douglas though.I don't care what previous GMs did. It has nothing to do with what Douglas is doing. If Douglas' moves don't work out and we eventually fire him, then we can lump him into that group.
This was his first offseason with the team and we are 3 games into it. I think it's far too early to be overly positive or negative about his overall tenure, but there's nothing wrong with questioning moves you don't like.
I don't like how he handled wide receiver this offseason, though I liked the Mims pick.
I liked how he handled the OL.
The contracts he gave out were all fair for the team.
It's too early to judge the draft since everyone has been hurt, but Becton looks like a star.
I like the value he got for Jamal. I might have taken that trade even before he tried to force his way out. After? It's great value. At the same time, we don't know how much Douglas might have escalated tensions between Adams and the team.
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2020, 03:01:27 PM
I don't care what previous GMs did. It has nothing to do with what Douglas is doing. If Douglas' moves don't work out and we eventually fire him, then we can lump him into that group.
This was his first offseason with the team and we are 3 games into it. I think it's far too early to be overly positive or negative about his overall tenure, but there's nothing wrong with questioning moves you don't like.
I don't like how he handled wide receiver this offseason, though I liked the Mims pick.
I liked how he handled the OL.
The contracts he gave out were all fair for the team.
It's too early to judge the draft since everyone has been hurt, but Becton looks like a star.
I like the value he got for Jamal. I might have taken that trade even before he tried to force his way out. After? It's great value. At the same time, we don't know how much Douglas might have escalated tensions between Adams and the team.
Agree with all of that. I'm just taking the pee out of those who think that Douglas is so far unimpeachable; the venn diagram of them and the "idziktheninja" crowd is significant.
I am so far lukewarm at best on Douglas. I think he's done several things poorly, and not all that much good. His best move was the return he got for Adams, and he should never have created that situation in the first place.
Post by: MBGreen on September 29, 2020, 03:23:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ofmQvs2.gif)
Post by: MexJetinBcn on September 29, 2020, 04:17:51 PM
Agree with all of that. I'm just taking the pee out of those who think that Douglas is so far unimpeachable; the venn diagram of them and the "idziktheninja" crowd is significant.
I am so far lukewarm at best on Douglas. I think he's done several things poorly, and not all that much good. His best move was the return he got for Adams, and he should never have created that situation in the first place.
Becton looks pretty good too
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2020, 04:21:39 PM
Becton looks pretty good too
Yeah, but GMs don't get credit for taking good players with high first round picks. That's like giving your Uber driver a tip for knowing the difference between the brake and accelerator.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 29, 2020, 04:25:04 PM
I wish we still had Robby, but Darnold would likely have two or three more INTs on the season due to failed deep shots.
We should play with no WRs so he can’t throw any picks
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 29, 2020, 04:28:22 PM
The Jets have done decently well with their 1st-round picks but only Jamal has truly been a difference-maker for more than a year.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 29, 2020, 04:30:22 PM
Post by: Laxin on September 29, 2020, 04:37:52 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2020, 04:41:18 PM
Not paying Robby is the biggest mistake he’s made so far. It’s entirely possible that Gase has a large influence on whether or not they wanted to bring him back/what his value was to the team... but this team is absolutely worse without him, and the cap space that they’re saving is doing Sam no favors at the moment.
What are you talking about? Sam has Lawrence Cager and the idea of Breshad Perriman to throw to, what more could he need?
Post by: bojanglesman on September 29, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
2. Gase hasn't had a fair shot because the roster has been so poor and injured.
3. No one could win with the available players we have on the field currently.
All of these statements are true.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 29, 2020, 05:27:20 PM
there is a strong argument to be made that the errors and gaffes we are seeing from the team/with the team are unacceptable, irrespective of talent level
gase may not have had a fair shot with this team but it probably wasn't even a shot he deserved/should have been given in the first place. we all wished for the best when it was announced but he was the absolute underwhelming hire to be made at the time, and we made it
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 29, 2020, 05:34:51 PM
1. Adam Gase is not a good coach and a douche and should be fired.This.
2. Gase hasn't had a fair shot because the roster has been so poor and injured.
2. No one could win with the available players we have on the field currently.
All of these statements are true.
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2020, 06:30:11 PM
This.
OK. So are we saying that Douglas is deliberately refusing to give Gase the tools he needs to succeed and undermining him to the point where he loses his job, or that he's doing the best he can and it's just not very good? Because I don't really see that there's a third option.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 29, 2020, 06:37:09 PM
OK. So are we saying that Douglas is deliberately refusing to give Gase the tools he needs to succeed and undermining him to the point where he loses his job, or that he's doing the best he can and it's just not very good? Because I don't really see that there's a third option.It is a rebuilding team that was killed by injuries. I feel like Douglas decided to go light on free agents because of covid and the cap uncertainty, and whether he admits it or not, loading up for 2021 is the better longterm plan. I feel like he made a mistake in providing enough talent this year to at least help Darnold progress.
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2020, 07:14:52 PM
It is a rebuilding team that was killed by injuries. I feel like Douglas decided to go light on free agents because of covid and the cap uncertainty, and whether he admits it or not, loading up for 2021 is the better longterm plan. I feel like he made a mistake in providing enough talent this year to at least help Darnold progress.
So option 2 then.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on September 29, 2020, 07:18:08 PM
Yeah, but GMs don't get credit for taking good players with high first round picks. That's like giving your Uber driver a tip for knowing the difference between the brake and accelerator.
Well, he could have taken Tristan Wirfs, which is what most people in this board wanted. Or CeeDee Lamb.
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2020, 07:37:12 PM
Well, he could have taken Tristan Wirfs, which is what most people in this board wanted. Or CeeDee Lamb.
Thus neatly making my point, as I think that both have been pretty good so far. So really, how difficult is it to avoid taking a scrub when you're picking at #11?
Post by: MexJetinBcn on September 29, 2020, 07:39:30 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 29, 2020, 07:55:54 PM
Well, he seems to have taken the best of them. It’s not like finding a HOF QB in the sixth round but it’s not negligible either. Anyway we’re grasping straws here, we will need time to see if JD is good or not regardless of what we have seen so far.
I agree. It just always amuses me when the new guy with no track record gets anointed as the saviour before he's actually done anything. People willing to give Gase a chance despite a clear history of being a disastrously bad HC, and yet believing based on nothing but blind faith that Douglas is going to be wonderful despite no history of being a GM, make no sense to me.
Post by: Libero_2 on September 29, 2020, 08:24:27 PM
I agree. It just always amuses me when the new guy with no track record gets anointed as the saviour before he's actually done anything. People willing to give Gase a chance despite a clear history of being a disastrously bad HC, and yet believing based on nothing but blind faith that Douglas is going to be wonderful despite no history of being a GM, make no sense to me.
The one difference with Douglas compared to Idzik and Duff (and probably everybody else since terry broadway but I wasn’t paying that much attention then) is that the league had pegged Douglas as the next guy to be a great GM. We weren’t taking a flyer on a random from an organization based on the word of supposed NFL guys like Charley Casserly or trying to steal John Schneider’s accountant.
That’s the reason to have hope before he started. Then you see the plan is outlined and appears to be there. Major emphasis on the biggest fix we all desperately wanted (OL) and brought in a WR that we all hoped could match the production of Robbie if he stayed healthy. Then goes out and does what we all desperately wanted in getting us a LT, who oh by the way appears to be a damn good one, and might be the best rookie lineman out of anybody (rounds 1 and beyond) through 3 weeks. Then he goes and gets a young speedster at our next biggest need in Mims after working the board in a trade down.
Has he made mistakes, yup. It’s clear that the trade of Perriman for Robbie has been a disaster thus far, its obvious we needed another WR somewhere in the draft.
But all of this is his first attempts at figuring it out and so far he hasn’t been bullied in negotiations either at the trade table or in contract talks, which is more than we can say for our other recent GMs.
I also think of our entire freaking draft class didn’t have soft tissue injuries, perhaps we would have some information on how they are playing to get a sense of how good they might actually be, to see if Douglas might be able to draft guys beyond pick 11.
Here’s hoping we lose, on Thursday, Gase gets fired on Friday and it’s announced that all our soft tissue injuries are clearing up over the mini-bye and Sam has a full complement of guys on the field in week 5.
Post by: Badger on September 30, 2020, 09:10:22 AM
Well, he could have taken Tristan Wirfs, which is what most people in this board wanted. Or CeeDee Lamb.A couple people preferred Wirfs but I don't think he was a majority favorite
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 30, 2020, 09:14:57 AM
A couple people preferred Wirfs but I don't think he was a majority favoriteMy memory is that Heismanberg was a huge Becton supporter and that most of us went along with it because studying offensive line tape isn't as much fun as other positions.
Post by: Johnny English on September 30, 2020, 09:20:23 AM
My memory is that Heismanberg was a huge Becton supporter and that most of us went along with it because studying offensive line tape isn't as much fun as other positions.
My memory is that the favourites on here were Thomas and Becton, and when Thomas went earlier we all prayed that there would be no run on tackles. Wills was probably the one we all least wanted.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 30, 2020, 09:25:22 AM
My memory is that the favourites on here were Thomas and Becton, and when Thomas went earlier we all prayed that there would be no run on tackles. Wills was probably the one we all least wanted.I didn't think any of the four tackles would be there. Then it looked like we might have our choice of all 3 besides Thomas. Thomas' narrative was that he was the most pro-ready, but he had the lowest upside.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 30, 2020, 09:27:58 AM
Post by: Johnny English on September 30, 2020, 09:40:50 AM
Douglas drafted a great player in Becton and found serviceable players in Lewis, McGovern and Fant. Every other move is either a failure or a question mark. He has not earned a reason for fans to trust him.
Fant has so far not looked like the failure I feared he was going to be, and he looks a clear upgrade on Edoga so far. The interior line has been pretty poor at times though, it's not just van Roten.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 30, 2020, 09:44:42 AM
Fant has so far not looked like the failure I feared he was going to be, and he looks a clear upgrade on Edoga so far. The interior line has been pretty poor at times though, it's not just van Roten.
I said serviceable, not good.
GVR doesn’t even reach that level.
Post by: ons on September 30, 2020, 09:50:03 AM
OK. So are we saying that Douglas is deliberately refusing to give Gase the tools he needs to succeed and undermining him to the point where he loses his job, or that he's doing the best he can and it's just not very good? Because I don't really see that there's a third option.
My theory is that Douglas was trying to build a serviceable-but-not-great offensive roster to try to evaluate Gase and Darnold. Mid-tier players at both WR and OL to see if Gase could run an offense that elevated the talent level, while drafting potential building blocks in Mims and Becton and giving them a year to develop with Darnold. I think the plan has kind of worked on the OL, it isn't a disaster, but injuries have just completely derailed the plan at the skill positions. And then on top of that, Gase has shown absolutely no ability to coach up bad talent.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 30, 2020, 09:56:23 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 30, 2020, 11:01:13 AM
Honestly, i didn't expect us to compete this year anyway. Not with Gase, not with a single JD draft class, and not with the money wasted by Duff on Bell, Mosley, and Trumaine.
At this point...our future looks promising (loads of capspace, premium draft picks). I hope CJ comes to his senses, restores the hierarchy and allows JD the power to hire his own coach. The rinsing and repeating with these shitty coach hires by the owner need to stop. Time to break the cycle.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 30, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 30, 2020, 12:24:02 PM
I'm not expecting or calling for the Jets to move on from him yet. I am waiting for him to actually improve the roster before I start thinking he's doing a good job. Just doing the opposite of what Maccagnan did doesn't mean he's doing things correctly.
Amen
Post by: MBGreen on September 30, 2020, 01:16:35 PM
I'm not expecting or calling for the Jets to move on from him yet. I am waiting for him to actually improve the roster before I start thinking he's doing a good job. Just doing the opposite of what Maccagnan did doesn't mean he's doing things correctly.
Amen
so you guys wouldn't be happy with anyone...is what you're trying to say.
Just give me the job. If i fix tapatalk on Saturday, i'm more than qualified.
Post by: Johnny English on September 30, 2020, 01:18:01 PM
so you guys wouldn't be happy with anyone...is what you're trying to say.
Just give me the job. If i fix tapatalk on Saturday, i'm more than qualified.
No, I'm saying, as I have all along, that so far Douglas hasn't shown that he's going to be great. We all hope he will be. Thus far his track record is fairly spotty, with more failures than successes.
Post by: MBGreen on September 30, 2020, 01:19:07 PM
No, I'm saying, as I have all along, that so far Douglas hasn't shown that he's going to be great. We all hope he will be. Thus far his track record is fairly spotty, with more failures than successes.
I disagree
Post by: Johnny English on September 30, 2020, 01:20:31 PM
I disagree
I am aware.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 30, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
But he's the best we've had in over a decade, maybe longer.I'm on board with Douglas, and I'm blindly trusting him right now. But we have no idea if he's a good GM or not. He hasn't done enough yet. We definitely can't say he's the best GM we've had in a decade, even considering how low the bar is. Tannenbaum had way more success. Douglas hasn't gotten a chance to show he's better, but I'm not going to blindly say he is until he proves it
Post by: MBGreen on September 30, 2020, 01:25:26 PM
I'm on board with Douglas, and I'm blindly trusting him right now. But we have no idea if he's a good GM or not. He hasn't done enough yet. We definitely can't say he's the best GM we've had in a decade, even considering how low the bar is. Tannenbaum had way more success. Douglas hasn't gotten a chance to show he's better, but I'm not going to blindly say he is until he proves it
We're all blindly trusting him now. Sure he's made some gaffes...but his trades have been elite, and i like his approach to the draft (so far, that obviously could change) JE is sore because he thinks Jamal would've made a difference this year....that trade is worth him winning Executive of the Year.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 30, 2020, 01:34:14 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 30, 2020, 01:35:58 PM
The picKs we got from the Seawhawks are only as good as the players they bring in. It’s a nice start but after the last three GMs’ draft records I’m not treating it like a victory yet. So far all we have done is lost an all pro player.
who doesn't play a premium position. Getting 2 first rounders for that was a coup.
JD comes with a better pedigree than the last 3 GMs combined. It looks like he has a plan....i'm willing to support him to see it through.
Post by: Badger on September 30, 2020, 02:20:45 PM
My memory is that Heismanberg was a huge Becton supporter and that most of us went along with it because studying offensive line tape isn't as much fun as other positions.He was huge and had a cool nickname, that was enough for me
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 30, 2020, 02:23:16 PM
who doesn't play a premium position. Getting 2 first rounders for that was a coup.
JD comes with a better pedigree than the last 3 GMs combined. It looks like he has a plan....i'm willing to support him to see it through.
*Potential coup.
As I said, if he drafts players who are worth it he gets all the praise ever. Until then, I don't really care.
I'm curious to see where it goes, but I'm not joining the fan club right now.
Post by: MBGreen on September 30, 2020, 03:10:46 PM
*Potential coup.
As I said, if he drafts players who are worth it he gets all the praise ever. Until then, I don't really care.
I'm curious to see where it goes, but I'm not joining the fan club right now.
I'll save a spot for you on the Dougtrain next April.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 30, 2020, 04:01:20 PM
I'll save a spot for you on the Dougtrain next April.
If everything works out, I’ll be the conductor.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 01, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
Quote
Pauline also went into detail about Douglas and all that is surrounding him within the organization. It’s no secret that the Jets are a mess. They’ve been a mess for nearly a decade. The failed hirings of John Idzik and Mike Maccagnan have set the franchise back as far as they could go. Douglas was supposed to be the savior that fixed all of that. But can he be?
The Jets were connected to Douglas before Maccagnan was even out the door. His connection to Gase and the hype around him as a candidate made him an easy target for the media to pick out. He did eventually get the job, but was he the Jets’ first choice all along? According to Pauline, the guy the Jets really wanted was Minnesota Vikings Assistant General Manager George Paton.
“Joe Douglas was really not the Jets’ first choice to be general manager. The guy they had their heart set on was George Paton. I’m told the Jets made him an offer, but Paton did not want to come to the Jets. Number one, he didn’t want to be saddled with Adam Gase as the head coach, and number two, he’s not a big believer in Sam Darnold.”
Paton is commonly regarded as the Vikings’ cap guru. His work under Vikings general manager Rick Speilman has drawn the eye of nearly every team around the league. He’s been one of the hottest general manager candidates in the NFL for years.
...
“I think what’s going to happen is this – if Joe Douglas can’t turn it around, then the Jets are going to be upset. Not only because Douglas couldn’t turn it around, but because they didn’t get their top guy in George Paton.”
https://twitter.com/pfn365/status/1311642781476061184?s=21
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2020, 09:45:11 AM
Pauline is a dunce.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 01, 2020, 09:53:29 AM
lol....didn't they give JD a 6 year deal? I'm pretty sure they don't hand out 6 yr deals to 2nd choices.
Pauline is a dunce.
Has Pauline ever been correct?
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2020, 09:54:40 AM
Has Pauline ever been correct?
Not in my lifetime
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2020, 10:39:37 AM
lol....didn't they give JD a 6 year deal? I'm pretty sure they don't hand out 6 yr deals to 2nd choices.This makes no sense. You get the best guy you can get. If Douglas is the 2nd choice behind Paton, but Paton says no, all of a sudden, Douglas is your first choice. And Douglas had a lot of leverage if he didn't want to leave, so he squeezed 6 years out.
Pauline could be full of crap, but length of contract has nothing to do with anything.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2020, 10:47:01 AM
This makes no sense. You get the best guy you can get. If Douglas is the 2nd choice behind Paton, but Paton says no, all of a sudden, Douglas is your first choice. And Douglas had a lot of leverage if he didn't want to leave, so he squeezed 6 years out.
Pauline could be full of crap, but length of contract has nothing to do with anything.
If Paton says no, Douglas is 2nd choice. Are you new to the planet?
And Pauline will forever be full of excrement
I believe Douglas was the first choice anyway. But you're still wrong in your post.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2020, 10:58:44 AM
If Paton says no, Douglas is 2nd choice. Are you new to the planet?My first choice to get laid tonight might be Kate Upton. My second choice might be my ex-girlfriend. If Kate Upton says no, my ex-girlfriend now becomes my top choice.
And Pauline will forever be full of excrement
I believe Douglas was the first choice anyway. But you're still wrong in your post.
Douglas had leverage because at the time, he was our top choice. Whether he was ahead or behind Paton. So he got 6 years out of it. That's how negotiations typically work in the United States.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2020, 11:01:47 AM
My first choice to get laid tonight might be Kate Upton. My second choice might be my ex-girlfriend. If Kate Upton says no, my ex-girlfriend now becomes my top choice.
No...your fake ex g/f would be your 2nd choice.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 01, 2020, 12:07:54 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 01, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Has Pauline ever been correct?
Not in my lifetime
Y’all have very short memories and mine is horrible
https://twitter.com/mmehtanydn/status/1121812242184515585?s=21
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2020, 09:10:04 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 05, 2020, 12:35:22 PM
LT Mekhi Becton - 169
WR Denzel Mims - 0
S Ashtyn Davis - 13
DL Jabari Zuniga - 0
RB La’Mical Perine - 40
QB James Morgan - 0
iOL Cameron Clark - 0
CB Bryce Hall - 0
Total: 222 snaps
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 05, 2020, 12:38:48 PM
rookie snap counts thru Week 4, ST not included:
LT Mekhi Becton - 169
WR Denzel Mims - 0
S Ashtyn Davis - 13
DL Jabari Zuniga - 0
RB La’Mical Perine - 40
QB James Morgan - 0
iOL Cameron Clark - 0
CB Bryce Hall - 0
Total: 222 snaps
Mims can't be blames on Douglas.
Perine could play, they're just not using him for whatever reason.
Morgan I think we all hoped we would NOT see.
Can Hall do any worse than the guys we've had at CB?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 12:43:39 PM
Can Hall do any worse than the guys we've had at CB?
Yes, because he's injured
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 05, 2020, 01:13:09 PM
Yes, because he's injured
That would be a problem. Also hard to put that one on Douglas then.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 05, 2020, 01:40:59 PM
rookie snap counts thru Week 4, ST not included:
LT Mekhi Becton - 169
WR Denzel Mims - 0
S Ashtyn Davis - 13
DL Jabari Zuniga - 0
RB La’Mical Perine - 40
QB James Morgan - 0
iOL Cameron Clark - 0
CB Bryce Hall - 0
Total: 222 snaps
Every single one of those guys save for Morgan has missed time with an injury. I believe all 5 other than Becton/Perine/Morgan/Mann have been on IR already this year.
It’s absurd how hard our entire team, but specifically our rookie class has been hit with soft tissue stuff. Hall with his injury from college still healing and Clark has the shoulder aside from the soft tissue stuff
Post by: Badger on October 06, 2020, 09:11:19 AM
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Post by: Derek Smalls on October 09, 2020, 05:27:42 PM
https://twitter.com/MMehtaNYDN/status/1314693412780679176
Some curious Jets roster decisions this season:
Carry 4 QBs for 3 weeks
Wait 1 wk to put Mims on IR
Waste roster spot on Perriman for 3 gms (and counting) instead of putting him on IR
Bypass backup LT & play Becton 4 days after getting hurt. Set Becton back because of it
Post by: Badger on October 09, 2020, 05:49:02 PM
He's not wrong.Gire Fase
https://twitter.com/MMehtaNYDN/status/1314693412780679176
Some curious Jets roster decisions this season:
Carry 4 QBs for 3 weeks
Wait 1 wk to put Mims on IR
Waste roster spot on Perriman for 3 gms (and counting) instead of putting him on IR
Bypass backup LT & play Becton 4 days after getting hurt. Set Becton back because of it
Post by: Libero_2 on October 09, 2020, 05:53:10 PM
The others might be dependent on training staff telling them “it’s not gonna be that long” as for 4 QBs that’s almost certainly a Gase decision
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 09, 2020, 06:07:49 PM
The Becton one has nothing to do with Douglas.Why is 4 QBs almost certainly a Gase decision? Because we don't like Gase?
The others might be dependent on training staff telling them “it’s not gonna be that long” as for 4 QBs that’s almost certainly a Gase decision
Post by: MBGreen on October 09, 2020, 06:11:12 PM
Why is 4 QBs almost certainly a Gase decision? Because we don't like Gase?
Because gase makes bad decisions like the rest of us breathe.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 09, 2020, 07:22:48 PM
Why is 4 QBs almost certainly a Gase decision? Because we don't like Gase?
I can see Gase telling Douglas he wants David freaking Fales, and Douglas making the decision to not cut White has to keep 4 QBs to make Gase happy
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 09, 2020, 08:43:26 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 09, 2020, 11:19:15 PM
Perhaps they kept an extra for fear of the Covid thing? Honesty IDK any more what we are doing with the extra PS/Roster spots for Covid protocols
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2020, 08:57:13 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 11, 2020, 07:43:24 PM
Jets have Darnold and we surround him with Crowder, Berrios, and Hogan.
What a Stark difference in approach on how to help your young franchise QB...or in our case how NOT to help
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 11, 2020, 07:45:51 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 11, 2020, 07:53:21 PM
Arizona has a 2nd yr QB they believe in...they go out and get arguably one of the best WR in the league to help him.
Jets have Darnold and we surround him with Crowder, Berrios, and Hogan.
What a Stark difference in approach on how to help your young franchise QB...or in our case how NOT to help
the cardinals team was derriere with multiple holes, drafted murray #1, and then went on and drafted what, 2-3 WRs in the same draft to help him?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 08:10:18 PM
the cardinals team was derriere with multiple holes, drafted murray #1, and then went on and drafted what, 2-3 WRs in the same draft to help him?
The receivers they've drafted mostly stink.
Nuk Hopkins and Larry Fitzgerald are why he's taking the next step.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 11, 2020, 10:22:23 PM
The receivers they've drafted mostly stink.
Nuk Hopkins and Larry Fitzgerald are why he's taking the next step.
no doubt, but i wish our team made more of those types of efforts to surround this guy with talent.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 11, 2020, 11:22:53 PM
Best case scenario, Douglas decided to punt on this season. It’s a terrible scenario.
Worst case scenario is that Douglas tried to field a competitive team this year and we go 0-16
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 12, 2020, 07:05:22 AM
Worst case scenario is that Douglas tried to field a competitive team this year and we go 0-16
If he thought this team would work he should be fired right now.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 12, 2020, 10:50:21 AM
no doubt, but i wish our team made more of those types of efforts to surround this guy with talent.
We did use a #2 on Mims, a #2 is supposed to contribute and play.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 13, 2020, 12:44:07 PM
First Jamal, now Bell.
I was hopeful he'd help turn things around...thus far, I'm underwhelmed.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 13, 2020, 01:03:50 PM
Joe D reinforcing the precedent that if you whine and complain on social media then you get traded.
First Jamal, now Bell.
I was hopeful he'd help turn things around...thus far, I'm underwhelmed.
Perine was also whining on social media. And no trade rumors have popped up for him yet.
Moving Bell for any semblance of an appreciable asset is the right move. As it would be with anyone else who clearly won’t be here next year the isn’t helping us in any way (Desir, McDougald, Jenkins, Anderson) Bell is just a guy that’s likely to return any sort of pick to us though.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 13, 2020, 01:14:26 PM
The Jamal Adams trade doesn’t balance out the rest of the team he’s put together.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 13, 2020, 05:59:22 PM
Joe D reinforcing the precedent that if you whine and complain on social media then you get traded.These 2 situations could not possibly be more different.
First Jamal, now Bell.
I was hopeful he'd help turn things around...thus far, I'm underwhelmed.
Adams is a star in this league entering his prime with elite trade value.
Bell was a star in this league years ago who is going to get cut in 3 months if we can't trade him. And he might get cut anyway.
There are things you can criticize Douglas for. I agreed with the Adams trade given what happened, but you can disagree. The wide receiver position this offseason was addressed horribly. Desir has been a disaster as a #1 CB.
But there is nothing to criticize Douglas over when it comes to Bell. Nothing.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 13, 2020, 07:35:20 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 13, 2020, 07:42:29 PM
i have high hopes for clark but at this point i think i'd rather have claypool than the combo of the 3 players above.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 13, 2020, 07:51:10 PM
claypool was taken 49th. we traded out of the 48th pick and ended up getting mims, jimmy morgan, and cameron clark out of it.Obviously based on what Claypool did last game, but let's see Mims play first. I liked Mims more coming out, though I would have been fine with Claypool.
i have high hopes for clark but at this point i think i'd rather have claypool than the combo of the 3 players above.
My issue was always that we didn't draft two wide receivers. Mims' injury wouldn't be as big of a deal if we had another WR that could step in. Maybe they just had a lot of faith in the Smiths.
Post by: Coach K on October 13, 2020, 07:58:56 PM
Christopher Johnson needs to be murdered for allowing Gase to stay employed
I'm over it . I'm in Tampa time to be a Bucs fan
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Post by: Coach K on October 13, 2020, 07:59:26 PM
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Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 13, 2020, 08:01:07 PM
Obviously based on what Claypool did last game, but let's see Mims play first. I liked Mims more coming out, though I would have been fine with Claypool.
My issue was always that we didn't draft two wide receivers. Mims' injury wouldn't be as big of a deal if we had another WR that could step in. Maybe they just had a lot of faith in the Smiths.
It would be a miracle if Mims played before the bye.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 13, 2020, 08:03:05 PM
Bell has been released.
Adam Gase didn't sign him. Joe Douglas didn't sign him.
His days with the Jets were numbered.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 13, 2020, 08:03:23 PM
Obviously Bell requested it. But I can't believe we couldn't get a conditional 7th in 2022 for the guy.
Post by: Coach K on October 13, 2020, 08:03:32 PM
Adam Gase didn't sign him. Joe Douglas didn't sign him.Thats fine
His days with the Jets were numbered.
Adam Gase still sucks and should not be employed
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Post by: Heismanberg on October 13, 2020, 08:03:50 PM
I can't believe we just cut him straight up.
Obviously Bell requested it. But I can't believe we couldn't get a conditional 7th in 2022 for the guy.
No one wants to pay a washed running back that much money
Post by: Libero_2 on October 13, 2020, 08:04:17 PM
It would be a miracle if Mims played before the bye.
I would agree. If he does play it will be sparingly and probably simple routes, because the guy has what 2 practices as a pro so far?
Post by: Coach K on October 13, 2020, 08:05:19 PM
Get ready for Trevor
Just draft Etienne too while we're at it
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Post by: Heismanberg on October 13, 2020, 08:05:22 PM
Adam Gase still sucks and should not be employed
I don't disagree, but getting rid of Bell isn't that big of a loss.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 13, 2020, 08:06:05 PM
No one wants to pay a washed running back that much money
I would have eaten the $6 million to get a pick back but that's just me. Especially since we are still eating the money now anyways.
I'm still shocked we cut him. For all the horrible football players on this team, there is no way Bell is the guy that's cut to make way for a random waiver claim.
Post by: Coach K on October 13, 2020, 08:07:34 PM
I don't disagree, but getting rid of Bell isn't that big of a loss.I totally get that
I'm just dead derriere tired of us being a walking meme
One last freak you from Maccagnan and a reminder we ruined a top 5 qb prospect 9f the last 6 or 7 years and the all time yards from scrimmage per game RB with a fuckface of an autistic HC
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Post by: Johnny English on October 13, 2020, 08:07:57 PM
Post by: Coach K on October 13, 2020, 08:08:38 PM
NGL, I hope he absolutely tears it up wherever he goes next and makes them both look like the freaking clowns they are.Same
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Post by: IATA on October 13, 2020, 08:08:54 PM
NGL, I hope he absolutely tears it up wherever he goes next and makes them both look like the freaking clowns they are.Agreed.
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Post by: Heismanberg on October 13, 2020, 08:12:29 PM
I would have eaten the $6 million to get a pick back but that's just me.
I'm sure Joe Douglas would've too. Teams are exactly lining up for a player that has worked his way out of two different franchises.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 13, 2020, 08:26:04 PM
NGL, I hope he absolutely tears it up wherever he goes next and makes them both look like the freaking clowns they are.
I'd be happy for him.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 13, 2020, 08:36:57 PM
NGL, I hope he absolutely tears it up wherever he goes next and makes them both look like the freaking clowns they are.
100%
Would be amazing if he signed with Pats and just raped us in both games
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 13, 2020, 09:07:59 PM
I'm sure Joe Douglas would've too. Teams are exactly lining up for a player that has worked his way out of two different franchises.
Yeah, nobody makes that trade. You wait it out.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 13, 2020, 09:45:06 PM
Let's just be honestWe won't be drafting at 1.
Get ready for Trevor
Just draft Etienne too while we're at it
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 13, 2020, 10:21:17 PM
Jets are also shopping Crowder (WR) and Poole (CB) both players have some value for banged up teams #NFL
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 13, 2020, 10:22:17 PM
Post by: Badger on October 13, 2020, 10:55:43 PM
Obviously based on what Claypool did last game, but let's see Mims play first. I liked Mims more coming out, though I would have been fine with Claypool.I would have agreed with d swordz even before this Sunday.
My issue was always that we didn't draft two wide receivers. Mims' injury wouldn't be as big of a deal if we had another WR that could step in. Maybe they just had a lot of faith in the Smiths.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 13, 2020, 11:11:57 PM
we literally have nobody else, we don't even have JAGs. i saw a post before saying josh adams was a JAG, but a JAG is at least mediocre and can provide near close to replacement level production. i would say adams is probably PS-level at best and nothing more. we literally have nobody else on offense other than crowder. it's obvious that herndon is suffering from drops/concentration/confidence issues and we don't have the coaching staff in place to be able to at least give him a kick in the derriere in this regard, and ryan griffin died this year
Post by: Libero_2 on October 14, 2020, 06:20:19 AM
https://twitter.com/incarceratedbob/status/1316196846348443648?s=21
Jets are also shopping Crowder (WR) and Poole (CB) both players have some value for banged up teams #NFL
I got angry and then realized it’s just Bob that fucker guesses at everything and claims he knows all when he guesses right.
Crowder Poole, Quinnen and Maye are the only potentially moveable assets we have thAt could return anything of value. So he picked two and guessed.
Crowder is worth more to us than any non premium pick is. Now if JD just wants a whole new WR corps next offseason and plans to cut Crowders $10.5 mIllini salary, then trade him now. But I think he’s proven worth that number as the only viable weapon the past two years and still is producing
Post by: bojanglesman on October 14, 2020, 06:49:40 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 14, 2020, 07:32:19 AM
NGL, I hope he absolutely tears it up wherever he goes next and makes them both look like the freaking clowns they are.
So much this
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 14, 2020, 07:34:22 AM
https://twitter.com/incarceratedbob/status/1316196846348443648?s=21
Jets are also shopping Crowder (WR) and Poole (CB) both players have some value for banged up teams #NFL
JFC
Gase is gonna keep his job. And the excuse is going to be that the team needs to rebuild the roster.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 14, 2020, 07:36:41 AM
JFC
Gase is gonna keep his job. And the excuse is going to be that the team needs to rebuild the roster.
Pretty sure he will be fired in-season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 14, 2020, 07:45:56 AM
JFC
Gase is gonna keep his job. And the excuse is going to be that the team needs to rebuild the roster.
I'd take it more seriously if it wasn't Incarcerated Bob. Remember Crowder was someone Gase had wanted for his offense.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 14, 2020, 08:28:29 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 14, 2020, 08:29:37 AM
So far Douglas kind of sucks.l am not giving him any leeway,his free agency was brutal, he drafted Becton who fell into his lap and an ir list.wow so much to get excited over.
Puck, you dirty son of a bitch....welcome back, broseph.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 14, 2020, 08:33:14 AM
Puck, you dirty son of a bitch....welcome back, broseph..
Hello lol
Post by: Heismanberg on October 14, 2020, 08:36:29 AM
he drafted Becton who fell into his lap
Incorrect to think this.
Douglas took Becton over Wirfs (who's also been pretty good, but he's only a right tackle). It was a great pick in a strong tackle class. Looks like he made the right decision.
The rest of his draft aside from Braden Mann leaves a lot to be desired so far. Mims should be back soon, hopefully.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 14, 2020, 10:41:27 AM
It's IncarceratedBob.
He's not out yet?
Post by: Miamipuck on October 14, 2020, 10:55:44 AM
He's not out yet?
Incarcerated Seafood
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 14, 2020, 11:05:04 AM
Incarcerated Seafood
I'm out bro.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 14, 2020, 01:32:39 PM
So far Douglas kind of sucks.l am not giving him any leeway,his free agency was brutal, he drafted Becton who fell into his lap and an ir list.wow so much to get excited over.
At least this shitshow brought Puck back
Wait...what?
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 14, 2020, 01:33:42 PM
At least this shitshow brought Puck back
Wait...what?
2020 isn't letting up for a second.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 14, 2020, 01:42:26 PM
At least this shitshow brought Puck backThink of me like Herpes, I lurk in the background and then boom headshot.
Wait...what?
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 14, 2020, 02:14:43 PM
At least this shitshow brought Puck back
Wait...what?
So you’re saying Puck has a scat fetish?
Post by: Miamipuck on October 14, 2020, 02:24:32 PM
So you’re saying Puck has a scat fetish?
I am a Jets fan so I have been scatted on for years and years, not the least of which is having you dickheads as friends, if that aint the biggest excrement on moment in life nothing is.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 14, 2020, 03:24:35 PM
I am a Jets fan so I have been scatted on for years and years, not the least of which is having you dickheads as friends, if that aint the biggest excrement on moment in life nothing is.
We love you too poopchute
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 14, 2020, 03:48:04 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 14, 2020, 04:00:03 PM
Most productive player he drafted thus far...Braden MannVP
If you're the Jets you need to draft a punter every year, you go through them.
Post by: IATA on October 14, 2020, 06:26:18 PM
.Holy excrement it didn't even register with me, welcome back buddy!!
Hello lol
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: IATA on October 14, 2020, 06:27:17 PM
JFCI will burn the god damn stadium to the ground.
Gase is gonna keep his job. And the excuse is going to be that the team needs to rebuild the roster.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: Miamipuck on October 14, 2020, 07:57:45 PM
Holy excrement it didn't even register with me, welcome back buddy!!
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Hello Bro! Thank you
Post by: Badger on October 14, 2020, 08:22:48 PM
I will burn the god damn stadium to the ground.And mint the ashes?
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 18, 2020, 09:34:06 PM
I might be out on Joe Douglas
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4cd8NTzXC6Y
Post by: Libero_2 on October 18, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
https://twitter.com/lostresgolpes/status/1317963403739209728?s=21
I might be out on Joe Douglas
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4cd8NTzXC6Y
I think it’s more likely he was finalizing the McLendon Trade
Post by: reuben on October 19, 2020, 06:41:33 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 19, 2020, 07:12:37 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/94jycn04ext51.jpg?width=640&height=480&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4cb68aaa0e6e0130ea9b01cab2eac6b4b65397e6)
Welcome to Jets World, Joe.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 19, 2020, 07:13:19 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/94jycn04ext51.jpg?width=640&height=480&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4cb68aaa0e6e0130ea9b01cab2eac6b4b65397e6)"Arby's closed in Canada"
Post by: MBGreen on October 19, 2020, 07:15:05 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 19, 2020, 09:47:08 AM
But the roster is a trash pile everywhere other than Crowder, Becton, and maybe Darnold and a couple of front-7 guys. A lot of that is on Maccagnan, but some of it is on Joe. Especially the OL.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 26, 2020, 09:54:23 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 26, 2020, 09:57:50 AM
Yesterday was clear that Joe blew it with his revamping effort of the OL...you can add that to the Robby Anderson whiff.
Becton looked great yesterday
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 26, 2020, 09:59:03 AM
Becton looked great yesterday
Indeed...too bad we can't clone him and play him at the other 4 positions on the line because Sam got sodomized yesterday
Post by: MBGreen on October 26, 2020, 10:10:41 AM
Indeed...too bad we can't clone him and play him at the other 4 positions on the line because Sam got sodomized yesterday
Sam is still making the same mistakes.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 26, 2020, 10:25:47 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 26, 2020, 10:34:35 AM
We went from having 5 turds to 2 turds, 2 solid players and one potential great one. Not bad. There are so many factors that make our line look bad at times, and I don't think improvement in talent on the line is the problem.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 26, 2020, 10:43:22 AM
I think Doug did well at center and both tackles. Guards, not so much, but honestly we were all blowing each other when we signed Van Roten, so we suck too. We collectively didn't like Fant so much and he's been good.The OL is significantly better than it was last year. It's not perfect, but the tackles are set for next year, and none of the interior OL we signed are long-term commitments.
We went from having 5 turds to 2 turds, 2 solid players and one potential great one. Not bad. There are so many factors that make our line look bad at times, and I don't think improvement in talent on the line is the problem.
Plus, I wonder how much Darnold has to do with some of these pressures by not reading defenses well pre-snap. I think Darnold makes the line look worse than it is sometimes by not figuring out where the pressure is supposed to be coming from and adjusting to it. A lot of that is on Gase, too.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 26, 2020, 10:51:00 AM
Plus, I wonder how much Darnold has to do with some of these pressures by not reading defenses well pre-snap.
There's sack that Mangold broke down on Twitter that is almost certainly on Sam, in my opinion. The defensive back walks up and Sam never sees it.
He had the back on the opposite side and a tight end on the same side. Either check the tight end to stay in and block or flip the back to pick up the rush.
He just completely didn't see the shift.
Post by: Gorilla on October 26, 2020, 10:56:04 AM
I think Doug did well at center and both tackles. Guards, not so much, but honestly we were all blowing each other when we signed Van Roten, so we suck too. We collectively didn't like Fant so much and he's been good.
We went from having 5 turds to 2 turds, 2 solid players and one potential great one. Not bad. There are so many factors that make our line look bad at times, and I don't think improvement in talent on the line is the problem.
The OL is significantly better than it was last year. It's not perfect, but the tackles are set for next year, and none of the interior OL we signed are long-term commitments.
Plus, I wonder how much Darnold has to do with some of these pressures by not reading defenses well pre-snap. I think Darnold makes the line look worse than it is sometimes by not figuring out where the pressure is supposed to be coming from and adjusting to it. A lot of that is on Gase, too.
^^This is my mindset, pretty much.
I didn't expect JD to fix a historically bad o-line in one offseason.
He has effectively addressed the most important issue, a franchise left tackle. Becton looks like a home run. I'm counting on 2021 for the offensive weapons to be more of a focus, with superior FAs compared to the 2020 class. As Arizona has been making evident, a new HC and new franchise QB can also instantly transform a franchise.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 26, 2020, 03:01:35 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 26, 2020, 03:11:51 PM
No way he could be worse than Andrews or GVR
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 27, 2020, 07:53:03 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 27, 2020, 08:22:30 AM
Hopefully Cam Clark gets some playing time in the next few weeks
No way he could be worse than Andrews or GVR
“ Josh Andrews was a huge liability starting at guard: 9 pressures allowed over just 35 protection snaps! 25.7%!!!! (guard average = about 4.5%)”
Nania
Post by: Heismanberg on October 27, 2020, 08:24:03 AM
“ Josh Andrews was a huge liability starting at guard: 9 pressures allowed over just 35 protection snaps! 25.7%!!!! (guard average = about 4.5%)”
Nania
Did we ever figure out if Nania is using his own grading system?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 27, 2020, 08:27:02 AM
Did we ever figure out if Nania is using his own grading system?
I have no idea because no one is paying for advanced Jets coverage and I’m sure that’s how you learn where he gets his stats. They’ve mostly lined up when compared to other sources, I’ve never ran into a glaring discrepancy.
PFF gave Andrews a pass blocking grade of 13.2
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 27, 2020, 08:28:43 AM
Watch Josh Andrews (LG) on this play
Just like me rn on this work Zoom call scrolling twitter
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 27, 2020, 08:35:50 AM
https://twitter.com/connorjrogers/status/1320528832693215232?s=21
Watch Josh Andrews (LG) on this play
Just like me rn on this work Zoom call scrolling twitter
I mentioned this earlier, dude is just jogging while Perine gets frustrated and blows past him.
I honestly don’t think that Perine waiting for the block to develop would have helped because I think the hole would have collapsed by the time Andrews got to someone. If Andrews was playing full speed and managed to throw a block at the second level Perine. Could have broken that run for another 5-8 yards easy, if not more.
Did we ever put Harrison out as a guard? Was he this bad?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2020, 08:25:33 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 08:35:40 AM
Douglas has a press conference at 4:30 EST today
probably to discuss the trades. i think the deadline is 4pm EST
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2020, 08:36:24 AM
probably to discuss the trades. i think the deadline is 4pm EST
Hopefully we makes some moves today, but it has to be more than that for him.
He'll have to field questions about his vision and about the state of this winless team. It's an important presser for him.
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 08:38:02 AM
Hopefully we makes some moves today, but it has to be more than that for him.
He'll have to field questions about his vision and about the state of this winless team. It's an important presser for him.
If it's another vote of confidence for Gase, i'll shut it off.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 03, 2020, 08:44:54 AM
If it's another vote of confidence for Gase, i'll shut it off.
You know damn well this will be the case.
I really wouldn't be surprised if Gase comes back next year after going 0-16.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 03, 2020, 08:49:08 AM
You know damn well this will be the case.
I really wouldn't be surprised if Gase comes back next year after going 0-16.
You shut your whore mouth.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2020, 08:50:13 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 08:52:12 AM
You know damn well this will be the case.
I really wouldn't be surprised if Gase comes back next year after going 0-16.
who hurt you?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 03, 2020, 09:03:01 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on November 03, 2020, 09:08:03 AM
I hope JD gets on the podium and says how he's firing everyone in this crappy organization from the owners on down.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2020, 09:14:09 AM
Yawn ....There's no freaking way Gase is back, none. That's the equivalent to a woman that was smacked around saying how kind and caring her man is when she's on the way to the hospital.
Happens all the time.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2020, 09:14:59 AM
Hopefully we makes some moves today, but it has to be more than that for him.
He'll have to field questions about his vision and about the state of this winless team. It's an important presser for him.
This press conference has been scheduled for a while (first saw something about it in week 3/4) but this was the first I’ve heard of a definitive date/time.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2020, 09:15:59 AM
This press conference has been scheduled for a while (first saw something about it in week 3/4) but this was the first I’ve heard of a definitive date/time.
Probably just a midseason presser
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2020, 10:21:13 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 03, 2020, 10:24:33 AM
Probably just a midseason presser
Mid season presser for sure. Yes he’ll talk about Gase, and I’m sure it will come with a vote of confidence since the owners haven’t fired him yet. Yes he will discuss trades and talk about building for the future and how the team isn’t being successful but it’s about seeing growth in the young guys, and he will wax poetic about Bectons start and talk about what he’s seen from Mims the last two weeks is encouraging. He will talk about the rest of the class getting healthy and hoping that they will get on the field soon (Clark/Zuniga/Hall).
He will be asked about the offseason upcoming and he will say the final 8 games are about evaluating the rest of the roster, that he feels we can and will have a better finish than a start etc, we just have to get healthy yadda yadda. But then he will be mildly honest and say that if the team doesn’t show improvement there will be lots of changes, ‘everyone is playing for their jobs’ and such.
He will be asked about Sam and his future with the team, and Douglas will say something effectively ‘Sam is our guy, we are lucky to have him. As an organization we haven’t done enough to surround him with guys to help him excel and that’s a priority this offseason to get bet at those spots”
Ultimately he will say very little of substance and it will be full of platitudes, the media will blow everything out of proportion even if he is just saying what he has to say. And I’m sure Douglas will be hit with 1-2 garbage leading questions, probably by Manish (if allowed to be involved in a virtual PC without creds) and/or Cimini
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2020, 12:09:06 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2020, 12:14:58 PM
For ahits and giggles, Inwonder what we could get if we traded the #1 pick? Three 1sts?
Washington traded 3 firsts and a second to move up 6 spots for #2 to select Robert Griffin III.
I'd have to think that four first rounders isn't out of the question for a player like Trevor Lawrence. It'd probably be more like three firsts and three seconds. It'd be a massive haul, but you'd also be giving up a chance at a player that could be the best quarterback prospect of all-time.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 03, 2020, 12:29:16 PM
Washington traded 3 firsts and a second to move up 6 spots for #2 to select Robert Griffin III.
I'd have to think that four first rounders isn't out of the question for a player like Trevor Lawrence. It'd probably be more like three firsts and three seconds. It'd be a massive haul, but you'd also be giving up a chance at a player that could be the best quarterback prospect of all-time.
Lawrence is special, but if someone offers me 3 firsts and 3 seconds for the #1 pick, I'm taking it. That's just way too much capital to invest into building an entire team to turn down.
Even if you're convinced Sam isn't your guy, you can build an absolute wall next to Becton, get top-tier skill players on offense, an EDGE, and corners--and be completely ready in 2023 to draft a new QB to utilize the foundation you've built.
Literally the opposite of what this team has been doing forever.
Post by: Johnny English on November 03, 2020, 12:43:22 PM
Lawrence is special, but if someone offers me 3 firsts and 3 seconds for the #1 pick, I'm taking it. That's just way too much capital to invest into building an entire team to turn down.
Even if you're convinced Sam isn't your guy, you can build an absolute wall next to Becton, get top-tier skill players on offense, an EDGE, and corners--and be completely ready in 2023 to draft a new QB to utilize the foundation you've built.
Literally the opposite of what this team has been doing forever.
100%. If you can parlay the #1 in 2020 into three more firsts to add to the three other firsts we already have in the next two years, plus a bunch of additional seconds, you can very quickly build a team full of top end rookies. Add some judicious FAs with all the cap space we'll have, then it doesn't matter what Sam does or doesn't become. You should be able to build a team so good on both sides of the ball that you can go find a Brad Johnson and win some excrement.
Of course that requires good coaching and good drafting, two things that have been in very short supply at Florham Park in the last decade.
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2020, 03:31:35 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2020, 03:32:41 PM
Is there a way to watch the press conf?
The team's website usually shows them live
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2020, 03:38:51 PM
The team's website usually shows them liveSeems like it's media-only.
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2020, 03:56:01 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:01:16 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2020, 04:02:02 PM
We all know the drill with Darnold. If we get the #1 pick, he's gone. If we get a high pick, it depends how much JD likes the quarterbacks available. If we somehow win a few games, Darnold keeps the job outright.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2020, 04:04:34 PM
So far...this press conference makes me sickI'm really not sure what you wanted him to say. He's not firing Adam Gase during the press conference, and if he's not firing Gase, he's not going to completely trash the guy.
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:05:28 PM
I'm really not sure what you wanted him to say. He's not firing Adam Gase during the press conference, and if he's not firing Gase, he's not going to completely trash the guy.
I don't like excuses being made for Gase either....I had to put up with that from you all year, don't need to hear it from Douglas too.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2020, 04:08:09 PM
I don't like excuses being made for Gase either....I had to put up with that from you all year, don't need to hear it from Douglas too.So what in particular are you mad about this time?
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:11:50 PM
So what in particular are you mad about this time?
lol....i just freaking told you.
I don't have time for your bullshit today. Go play in traffic.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2020, 04:12:51 PM
lol....i just freaking told you.All you've said is "this press conference makes me sick" and that there are excuses being made for Gase.
I don't have time for your bullshit today. Go play in traffic.
I ask you to elaborate, and your response, as per usual, is a bunch of garbage.
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:16:49 PM
All you've said is "this press conference makes me sick" and that there are excuses being made for Gase.
I ask you to elaborate, and your response, as per usual, is a bunch of garbage.
elaborate on what? Douglas is saying Adam isn't the entire problem....but he kind of is. Everyone knew that he was for months (except you and a few others).
I'm not interested in your responses. And if you're gonna be a condescending douchebag about it, i'll punt your dumbfuck derriere back to TGG so you can resume sucking on Petro's nuts with Cman.
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2020, 04:17:26 PM
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2020, 04:17:51 PM
elaborate on what? Douglas is saying Adam isn't the entire problem....but he kind of is. Everyone knew that he was for months (except you and a few others).cheese dust through a straw
I'm not interested in your responses. And if you're gonna be a condescending douchebag about it, i'll punt your dumbfuck derriere back to TGG so you can resume sucking on Petro's nuts with Cman.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2020, 04:20:54 PM
So far, you've threatened to ban me for ripping on the Winnipeg Jets and for responding to you telling me to play in traffic. Take a Xanax and calm the freak down.
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:24:25 PM
I love when MB threatens to ban people from a message board that has like 15 people on it.
So far, you've threatened to ban me for ripping on the Winnipeg Jets and for responding to you telling me to play in traffic. Take a Xanax and calm the freak down.
I don't like your condescending attitude. And 1 less retard on this board won't move the needle much....so try me, dumbass.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 03, 2020, 04:24:26 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2020, 04:25:52 PM
Quote
Joe Douglas says Adam Gase is “part of the solution”
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2020, 04:28:13 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:29:07 PM
Im not sure what people realistically expected Douglas to say on Gase that would make them happy.
i expected Douglas to drink blood from Gase's skull.
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:33:18 PM
@RobbySabo
·
18m
There's not much else Joe Douglas can do. Shouldered the blame and didn't throw anybody under the bus. It's the right message. #TakeFlight
Sabo is correct....but it's still hard to listen to Gase getting votes of confidence (whether it's lip service or not)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2020, 04:34:33 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2020, 04:35:35 PM
Douglas absolutely screwed up on Robby. Good to see him admit it.
https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1323745846396129283
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:38:51 PM
I haven't seen the press conference (which is why I wanted to know why MB was mad), but following it on Twitter, I thought this was interesting (haven't heard the sound, just saw tweets that Douglas admitted he screwed up on Robby).
Douglas absolutely screwed up on Robby. Good to see him admit it.
https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1323745846396129283
TBH i thought you were asking me because you wanted to start another argument. I apologize for losing my excrement.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2020, 04:43:30 PM
TBH i thought you were asking me because you wanted to start another argument. I apologize for losing my excrement.
Still plodding away with that shctick huh. God forbid I show up to a tailgate and you insist on calling me that to my face.
I will leave in a cop car. And you will have to suck cheese dust through a straw. Fair trade. And no I'm not freaking with you.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2020, 04:45:51 PM
Well, he didn't have to say that. I can understand not killing the coach until he's fired, but no need to lift him up any.
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:48:00 PM
Well, he didn't have to say that. I can understand not killing the coach until he's fired, but no need to lift him up any.
this was my thought process as well.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2020, 04:48:45 PM
this was my thought process as well.
Well, technically Gase's firing is part of the solution, so he IS part of the solution.
Post by: MBGreen on November 03, 2020, 04:50:11 PM
Well, technically Gase's firing is part of the solution, so he IS part of the solution.
He's part of the solution when it comes to securing the #1 pick......but i suppose that's only one perspective.
Post by: Johnny English on November 03, 2020, 04:50:19 PM
I haven't seen the press conference (which is why I wanted to know why MB was mad), but following it on Twitter, I thought this was interesting (haven't heard the sound, just saw tweets that Douglas admitted he screwed up on Robby).
Douglas absolutely screwed up on Robby. Good to see him admit it.
https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1323745846396129283
Maybe he should freaking listen to us then, given we clearly know more about this excrement than him.
Imagine keeping Gase and letting Robby walk. This is like watching a guy get in an F1 car on the starting grid and trying to figure out which paddle makes it go forward and which one reverse.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2020, 04:51:40 PM
Gase spent about 2 months with Duff before throwing him under the bus
Thank the football gods for that
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 03, 2020, 04:55:09 PM
Gase spent about 2 months with Duff before throwing him under the busSo Gase was part of the solution after all.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 03, 2020, 04:59:05 PM
So Gase was part of the solution after all.
Maybe he can get the Johnsons to sell the team.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2020, 06:41:43 PM
So Gase was part of the solution after all.
I’m on the record saying it was the best thing he’s done here
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 03, 2020, 06:49:41 PM
I’m on the record saying it was the best thing he’s done here
Agreed.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 09, 2020, 11:38:18 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 10, 2020, 05:49:41 AM
This week: Draft class looking good the more they get on the fieldWe need them to play well so they can properly disappoint us next year.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 10, 2020, 04:52:36 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 10, 2020, 08:24:43 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 11, 2020, 08:06:34 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 11, 2020, 12:32:06 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 11, 2020, 12:34:06 PM
Why should he be any different than the rest of us?
I would also like to point out, this is clearly between plays. If it wasn't, the TV crew wouldn't have had time to pan to Douglas, as they would have been showing the action.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 11, 2020, 12:36:24 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 17, 2020, 04:16:45 PM
https://twitter.com/briancoz/status/1328800066858061825?s=21
Beat writers coming for Joe’s neck on a 1 year $4M signing
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 17, 2020, 04:21:38 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 17, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1328803781061042183?s=21
https://twitter.com/briancoz/status/1328800066858061825?s=21
Beat writers coming for Joe’s neck on a 1 year $4M signing
Let them question it. Given our cb situation at the time, we needed a move and everyone thought Desir was the best option. But he’s been a disaster and admitting the mistake is the right decision. Add in the fact we have someone who can take his spot and we want to see (Hall) I have zero issue with the move.
We’ve been bitching about Desir for weeks/months and frankly we should be glad Hall was finally healthy enough to take his job
Post by: Heismanberg on November 17, 2020, 04:57:45 PM
https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1328803781061042183?s=21
https://twitter.com/briancoz/status/1328800066858061825?s=21
Beat writers coming for Joe’s neck on a 1 year $4M signing
"Big ticket free agent" lmao
Maccagnan would've given Desir $40M for 2 years
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 17, 2020, 08:21:49 PM
Hopefully Bryce Hall can play.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 18, 2020, 02:57:24 AM
Post by: Badger on November 18, 2020, 07:16:45 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 25, 2020, 09:46:24 AM
@RobbySabo
·
6m
Fifth-round for Bryce Hall was Joe Douglas highway robbery. #TakeFlight
Post by: Johnny English on November 25, 2020, 09:51:49 AM
Robby Sabo
@RobbySabo
·
6m
Fifth-round for Bryce Hall was Joe Douglas highway robbery. #TakeFlight
At the end of his first season Chris Herndon looked like the steal of the 2018 draft and now everyone thinks he's the worst player to ever pull on a green jersey. Let's not get carried away slobbering down Douglas's rooster about this one just yet.
Post by: MBGreen on November 25, 2020, 09:58:01 AM
At the end of his first season Chris Herndon looked like the steal of the 2018 draft and now everyone thinks he's the worst player to ever pull on a green jersey. Let's not get carried away slobbering down Douglas's rooster about this one just yet.
Chris Herndon has zero to do with Joe Douglas. Joe's first draft looks very promising....Bryce Hall would've gone in the 1st or 2nd if not for that injury.
We wanted a GM to find late round gold, it looks like we did.
Post by: Johnny English on November 25, 2020, 09:58:46 AM
Chris Herndon has zero to do with Joe Douglas. Joe's first draft looks very promising.
I feel like you may have missed my point.
Post by: MBGreen on November 25, 2020, 09:59:05 AM
I feel like you may have missed my point.
you haven't made a solid point all season.
you do, however, excel at being a baby-back bitch.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 25, 2020, 10:56:56 AM
At the end of his first season Chris Herndon looked like the steal of the 2018 draft and now everyone thinks he's the worst player to ever pull on a green jersey. Let's not get carried away slobbering down Douglas's rooster about this one just yet.I really like this draft class so far, but yes, it's still very early.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 25, 2020, 03:09:06 PM
you haven't made a solid point all season.
you do, however, excel at being a baby-back bitch.
Not to defend JE but he has a point. Lots of guys look good early, and then ultimately don't get it done.
Herndon and Stephen Hill are the first two who had promising flashes early on and (thus far) haven't amounted to much. It's fair to think Bryce Hall's first couple games might not be indicative of the rest of his career.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 25, 2020, 03:49:19 PM
you haven't made a solid point all season.
you do, however, excel at being a baby-back bitch.
Baby back bitch? Are you craving ribs again?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 07, 2020, 04:06:17 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 07, 2020, 04:15:11 PM
Not to defend JE but he has a point. Lots of guys look good early, and then ultimately don't get it done.
Herndon and Stephen Hill are the first two who had promising flashes early on and (thus far) haven't amounted to much. It's fair to think Bryce Hall's first couple games might not be indicative of the rest of his career.
The flip side is this is a bunch of guys in one draft, something we haven't seen since the early Tannenbaum years.
Baby back bitch? Are you craving ribs again?
Chiliiiiiiiiiiiiis bayyy beee back ribs.....................
Post by: insanity on December 10, 2020, 10:25:48 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 10, 2020, 10:29:27 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JCaporoso/status/1337035719416700932?s=20Probably right. Probably would have won either the NE or the Raiders game. That assumes Jamal hasn't gone full scorched earth and become a massive distraction.
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2021, 12:21:39 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 04, 2021, 12:30:25 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 04, 2021, 12:35:44 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on January 04, 2021, 12:36:20 PM
Getting a feel for the Joe Douglas
You ever just drive around getting a feel for the Joe Douglas?!
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 04, 2021, 01:28:18 PM
Getting a feel for the Joe Douglas
is this post/thread still around
Post by: Johnny English on January 04, 2021, 01:36:16 PM
is this post/thread still around
Pretty sure TGG purged the entirety of that board a few years back.
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2021, 03:52:17 PM
@RichCimini
·
7m
Douglas on Gase: "This was hard for me. I know people outside this building, they may not see it at this time, but he did some really good things here that will help us moving forward." #Jets
You can stop with the facade, big Joe. Crazy Eyes can't hurt you anymore.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 05, 2021, 03:53:40 PM
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
7m
Douglas on Gase: "This was hard for me. I know people outside this building, they may not see it at this time, but he did some really good things here that will help us moving forward." #Jets
You can stop with the facade, big Joe. Crazy Eyes can't hurt you anymore.
So JD delivered the pink slip? Interesting...
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2021, 03:55:27 PM
@BrianCoz
·
28m
Douglas said bringing back free agent safety Marcus Maye is a priority.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 05, 2021, 05:02:08 PM
Brian Costello
@BrianCoz
·
28m
Douglas said bringing back free agent safety Marcus Maye is a priority.
that statement's the kiss of death for a nyj safety lolol
Post by: Libero_2 on January 05, 2021, 05:09:45 PM
that statement's the kiss of death for a nyj safety lolol
Isn’t Maye the longest tenured Jet now that McLendon is gone?
Edit: it’s still technically Jordan Jenkins although everyone expects him to leave this offseason
Then it’s either Maye or Thomas Hennessy as longest tenured as both have been here for 4 seasons. I’d guess Maye counts as longest tenured as he was drafted in the 2nd round and Hennessy wasn’t a draft pick.
My god it’s a testament to horrendous drafting that no one on this team has played a second multi-year contract with us in forever. And our entire draft classes are all gone prior to 2017 and only one guy remains from that class four seasons later. No freaking wonder we suck
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 05, 2021, 05:15:00 PM
Brian Costello
@BrianCoz
·
28m
Douglas said bringing back free agent safety Marcus Maye is a priority.
Bye, bitch.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 05, 2021, 05:38:23 PM
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
7m
Douglas on Gase: "This was hard for me. I know people outside this building, they may not see it at this time, but he did some really good things here that will help us moving forward." #Jets
You can stop with the facade, big Joe. Crazy Eyes can't hurt you anymore.
He's absolutely correct. Gase did some major things to help the organization move forward. He got Maccagnan fired and Douglas hired.
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2021, 05:42:11 PM
Isn’t Maye the longest tenured Jet now that McLendon is gone?Who was the last first rounder to get a 2nd contract with us? Wilk?
Edit: it’s still technically Jordan Jenkins although everyone expects him to leave this offseason
Then it’s either Maye or Thomas Hennessy as longest tenured as both have been here for 4 seasons. I’d guess Maye counts as longest tenured as he was drafted in the 2nd round and Hennessy wasn’t a draft pick.
My god it’s a testament to horrendous drafting that no one on this team has played a second multi-year contract with us in forever. And our entire draft classes are all gone prior to 2017 and only one guy remains from that class four seasons later. No freaking wonder we suck
Post by: Libero_2 on January 05, 2021, 06:07:27 PM
Who was the last first rounder to get a 2nd contract with us? Wilk?
I think so
Sanchez in 09 and Wilk in 11
Wilson didn't
Millner and Richardson didn't
Coples didn't
Pryor didn't
Adams didn't
Lee didn't
Sam probably won't at this point.
My god what a terrible decade of drafting
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2021, 06:46:26 PM
I think so
Sanchez in 09 and Wilk in 11
Wilson didn't
Millner and Richardson didn't
Coples didn't
Pryor didn't
Adams didn't
Lee didn't
Sam probably won't at this point.
My god what a terrible decade of drafting
The fans just didn’t want to win bad enough
Post by: Jumbo on January 05, 2021, 07:46:33 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 05, 2021, 07:57:27 PM
David Harris is the only 2nd rounder this millenium the Jets have given a second contract to
Was he the last good one we drafted?
(Hopefully until Mims)
Post by: Libero_2 on January 05, 2021, 09:22:59 PM
Was he the last good one we drafted?
(Hopefully until Mims)
Id say Maye was also good
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 05, 2021, 09:29:28 PM
Id say Maye was also good
I don't know how I whiffed on that. Mea culpa.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 05, 2021, 10:10:56 PM
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2021, 10:31:46 PM
Maye and Mims, two in the same decade. For us that's productive.Depends on where you draw the decade line but Mims belongs to the '20s.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 05, 2021, 10:44:03 PM
Depends on where you draw the decade line but Mims belongs to the '20s.
True, within a decade probably more accurate. Hopefully Mims won't be our only good one in the 20s.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 06, 2021, 08:40:53 AM
Maye and Mims, two in the same decade. For us that's productive.
I'd pump the brakes on Mims. Comparing rookie years with another infamous 2nd round pick, jury is still out IMO...but cautiously optimistic
Mims: 9 Games - 23 Rec 357 Yds 0 TD
Stephen Hill: 11 Games - 21 Rec 252 Yds 3 TD
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2021, 09:17:46 AM
Quote
RichCimini: In light of the Matt Rhule situation in '19, @TMKSESPN asked GM Joe Douglas yesterday if he'd get involved in picking assistant coaches:
"I think you hire the right person and you let him do his job. I certainly don't believe in meddling in any coach's staff." #Jets
Post by: reuben on January 06, 2021, 09:18:43 AM
I'd pump the brakes on Mims. Comparing rookie years with another infamous 2nd round pick, jury is still out IMO...but cautiously optimistic
Mims: 9 Games - 23 Rec 357 Yds 0 TD
Stephen Hill: 11 Games - 21 Rec 252 Yds 3 TD
+1
After watching Chris Herndon's bizarre third season I'm cautious about declaring any player an asset. Looks like Mims has got the goods but we'll see.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2021, 09:21:17 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 06, 2021, 09:24:33 AM
Mims was also playing with a garbage QB
Mims was also injured for the a good portion of the season. There isn't enough to accurately evaluate him on.
Post by: Badger on January 06, 2021, 09:27:22 AM
I'd pump the brakes on Mims. Comparing rookie years with another infamous 2nd round pick, jury is still out IMO...but cautiously optimisticSurprised Mims yardage total is that low, I would have guessed ~500 but he did miss a lot of games.
Mims: 9 Games - 23 Rec 357 Yds 0 TD
Stephen Hill: 11 Games - 21 Rec 252 Yds 3 TD
Post by: MBGreen on January 06, 2021, 09:47:36 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
34m
In light of the Matt Rhule situation in '19, @TMKSESPN
asked GM Joe Douglas yesterday if he'd get involved in picking assistant coaches:
"I think you hire the right person and you let him do his job. I certainly don't believe in meddling in any coach's staff." #Jets
#erection
Post by: Badger on January 06, 2021, 09:55:03 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 06, 2021, 10:11:53 AM
Happy to hear that but my god the bar is low...
this front office has been a pile of steamy turds for 9 years.
This is the first offseason in a decade where i'm not scared to be optimistic.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 06, 2021, 10:16:11 AM
I'd pump the brakes on Mims. Comparing rookie years with another infamous 2nd round pick, jury is still out IMO...but cautiously optimistic
Mims: 9 Games - 23 Rec 357 Yds 0 TD
Stephen Hill: 11 Games - 21 Rec 252 Yds 3 TD
A lot of Hill's numbers came from one big game vs a bad Buffalo team. Mims was more of a factor consistently when he was in there. It's why you really have to watch the games to evaluate and not just rely on numbers. A DB falls down, boom, 80 yards and a TD.
Post by: Johnny English on January 06, 2021, 10:24:41 AM
Mims was also playing with a garbage QB
Herndon was playing with the same garbage QB in his rookie year when we all thought he was going to be a star.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2021, 10:28:17 AM
Herndon was playing with the same garbage QB in his rookie year when we all thought he was going to be a star.
And then he followed his suspension up with an injury
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 06, 2021, 11:02:49 AM
Hill's QB was either late stage Sanchez (my next screen name) or Geno, or both. Neither good.
Post by: Badger on January 21, 2021, 04:03:42 PM
Post by: Badger on January 21, 2021, 04:10:49 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 27, 2021, 08:23:18 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 27, 2021, 08:34:55 PM
https://twitter.com/briancoz/status/1354601250231377920?s=21
That all seems pretty fair.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2021, 09:25:10 PM
https://twitter.com/iankenyonnfl/status/1371643383286992900?s=21
Post by: insanity on March 15, 2021, 10:00:16 PM
https://twitter.com/iankenyonnfl/status/1371630947129565187?s=21Nothing worse than reading butthurt pats fan tweets
https://twitter.com/iankenyonnfl/status/1371643383286992900?s=21
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2021, 06:54:27 PM
Very on brand of me to post this tweet
Post by: Laxin on March 17, 2021, 09:32:37 PM
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1372333228640645121?s=21
Very on brand of me to post this tweet
Clearly JD has faith in McGovern and doesn't want to move him to guard. People forget this isn't Madden where you can play a C at G and he's just as good.
I also prefer Davis to Fuller given his health concerns, and Juju plays a different position than Davis, one already filled by Crowder. If Golladay signs a deal significantly lower than anticipated, then I guess you can fault JD, but until that happens I won't criticize him. I can only imagine what the fanbase would be saying if Davis wasn't signed and JD was slow playing the WR markey.
And as for TE's, they were only two clear upgrades that have been signed, and both signed fairly significant contracts. Its still possible someone is added to give Herndon competition.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2021, 09:46:33 PM
Clearly JD has faith in McGovern and doesn't want to move him to guard. People forget this isn't Madden where you can play a C at G and he's just as good.
I also prefer Davis to Fuller given his health concerns, and Juju plays a different position than Davis, one already filled by Crowder. If Golladay signs a deal significantly lower than anticipated, then I guess you can fault JD, but until that happens I won't criticize him. I can only imagine what the fanbase would be saying if Davis wasn't signed and JD was slow playing the WR markey.
And as for TE's, they were only two clear upgrades that have been signed, and both signed fairly significant contracts. Its still possible someone is added to give Herndon competition.
This is a pretty good rebuttal but I would rather panic because we don’t have pro bowlers across the board at every position on offense Year 1 A.G.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2021, 06:57:08 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 18, 2021, 07:20:24 AM
Just freaking sign someone to push GVR and fill in the spot vacated by Alex Lewis/Pat Elflein. I can't imagine we're riding the Cameron Clark train all the way to the playoffs after the dude was injured for the majority of last season and played all of three snaps.Lewis is still signed with us.
Post by: MBGreen on March 18, 2021, 07:22:35 AM
Just freaking sign someone to push GVR and fill in the spot vacated by Alex Lewis/Pat Elflein. I can't imagine we're riding the Cameron Clark train all the way to the playoffs after the dude was injured for the majority of last season and played all of three snaps.
You forget we have a Scarnecchia on the coaching staff. He's gonna turn our current gords into a bunch of Fanecas.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 18, 2021, 07:33:35 AM
Lewis is still signed with us.
What he wrote doesn't change.
Post by: MBGreen on March 18, 2021, 07:35:52 AM
If he doesn't address the IOL in the draft, then light the torches. But until then, relax. The gord FA class outside of Thuney was trash this year.
EDIT: Let the new coaching staff coach the players. We had a bumblefuck coaching staff the last 2 years...maybe Cam Clark turns out to be a pretty good.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 18, 2021, 07:44:18 AM
Why are you guys panicking? Douglas cut his teeth under mentors that built through the draft. He didn't sit on his thumb in FA....hell, he signed a pass rushing threat, something we haven't had since John freaking Abraham.More like Fam Clark, the elite gord.
If he doesn't address the IOL in the draft, then light the torches. But until then, relax. The gord FA class outside of Thuney was trash this year.
EDIT: Let the new coaching staff coach the players. We had a bumblefuck coaching staff the last 2 years...maybe Cam Clark turns out to be a pretty good.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2021, 07:51:54 AM
Lewis is still signed with us.He's also completely played his way out of the starting position.
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2021, 08:38:04 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 18, 2021, 08:40:05 AM
I'm not assuming we're not upgrading the OL when all is said and done - I'm just "going on record" that it would pretty bad if we rolled with the guys we have/don't expend FA/draft capital on the position.
and that's totally fair. I would be pissed if the IOL was completely ignored by the time May rolled around.
But having said that... freaking out on day 3 of FA is more than a little premature.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2021, 08:41:26 AM
I'm not assuming we're not upgrading the OL when all is said and done - I'm just "going on record" that it would pretty bad if we rolled with the guys we have/don't expend FA/draft capital on the position.I choose to complain until it happens.
Post by: MBGreen on March 18, 2021, 08:43:35 AM
I choose to complain until it happens.
you and my mother-in-law have a lot in common.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2021, 08:47:04 AM
and that's totally fair. I would be pissed if the IOL was completely ignored by the time May rolled around.I'm freaking out day 3 plus a whole decade since we've had a functioning OLine. It's the only platoon on the roster that I actually care about right now.
But having said that... freaking out on day 3 of FA is more than a little premature.
Douglas had a potentially decent draft last season, it doesn't elevate him over being just the next guy at GM. IDGAF if we've signed a pass rusher or a WR right now; it's not going to matter if our opponents wind up planting a QB garden behind the holes between Becton and Fant.
Post by: MBGreen on March 18, 2021, 08:51:28 AM
I'm freaking out day 3 plus a whole decade since we've had a functioning OLine. It's the only platoon on the roster that I actually care about right now.
Douglas had a potentially decent draft last season, it doesn't elevate him over being just the next guy at GM. IDGAF if we've signed a pass rusher or a WR right now; it's not going to matter if our opponents wind up planting a QB garden behind the holes between Becton and Fant.
If we would've signed someone like Thuney and ignored the EDGE rusher position...you'd be complaining about that. I get how this works.
Every position wasn't going to be filled in FA. This horse has been beaten to death.
Like i said, if IOL gets ignored in the draft...then i'll join you in your quest for blood.
I'm also not going to hold Douglas to the countless failures from our previous GMs. This is his 2nd draft. Let him do his thing.
You're a smart guy, Cato....i know you can think about this rationally. Perhaps the Jets PTSD runs a little too deep for you and some others here. Just stay the course.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2021, 09:00:49 AM
If we would've signed someone like Thuney and ignored the EDGE rusher position...you'd be complaining about that. I get how this works.If we signed someone like Thuney and missed out on Lawson I would have said that signing Thuney was the more important choice. I've been beating the same drum for years.
Every position wasn't going to be filled in FA. This horse has been beaten to death.
Like i said, if IOL gets ignored in the draft...then i'll join you in your quest for blood.
I'm also not going to hold Douglas to the countless failures from our previous GMs. This is his 2nd draft. Let him do his thing.
You're a smart guy, Cato....i know you can think about this rationally. Perhaps the Jets PTSD runs a little too deep for you and some others here. Just stay the course.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 09:37:03 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 09:41:09 AM
Douglas is pretty clearly committed to building the OL through the draft. In my opinion, this is the correct approach. We'll see if we're able to execute.
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2021, 09:46:29 AM
I'm freaking out day 3 plus a whole decade since we've had a functioning OLine. It's the only platoon on the roster that I actually care about right now.
Basically day 3476 since 2011 Week 1.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2021, 09:52:32 AM
lol at valuing a guard over a premier edge rusher
TIL Edge Rusher will keep our next franchise QB from busting
Post by: Johnny English on March 18, 2021, 10:00:05 AM
TIL Edge Rusher will keep our next franchise QB from busting
Yeah but the next magic quarterback after that one will be the guy that changes everything for us, just you wait and see
Post by: IATA on March 18, 2021, 10:05:07 AM
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2021, 10:07:55 AM
What qb will we target with our next "tank for qb" philosophy in 4 years?Arch Manning
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Arch Manning
Chad Pennington Jr
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
What qb will we target with our next "tank for qb" philosophy in 4 years?Zach Wilson's 8th younger brother.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on March 18, 2021, 11:04:30 AM
Basically day 3476 since 2011 Week 1.
More like 3707 since the AFC title game in Pittsburgh.
Post by: MBGreen on March 18, 2021, 11:10:20 AM
What qb will we target with our next "tank for qb" philosophy in 4 years?
Tom Brady
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 18, 2021, 11:33:38 AM
I'm not assuming we're not upgrading the OL when all is said and done - I'm just "going on record" that it would pretty bad if we rolled with the guys we have/don't expend FA/draft capital on the position.
what if we took an IOL in the 7th round?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
TIL Edge Rusher will keep our next franchise QB from busting
How did you discern that from my post? Obviously they're both needs that should be filled but to suggest that a guard is a more important signing than a premier edge rusher is ludicrous.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2021, 11:58:21 AM
How did you discern that from my post? Obviously they're both needs that should be filled but to suggest that a guard is a more important signing than a premier edge rusher is ludicrous.
That’s just your opinion. I would rather have Thuney than Lawson by a country mile.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 18, 2021, 12:02:24 PM
That’s just your opinion. I would rather have Thuney than Lawson by a country mile.It's pretty close IMO. I'd rather have Thuney in a nutshell, and his contract shows that he's a little more valuable, but Lawson is getting paid in part for his potential. Lawson could easily break out, and a premier edge rusher is more important than a premier guard. Lawson just hasn't proven he's at that level yet, so that's why I prefer Thuney in a nutshell.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 12:09:40 PM
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2021, 12:09:59 PM
More like 3707 since the AFC title game in Pittsburgh.I considered starting from then but Hunter wasn't dreadful during that game. We didn't realize everything went to excrement until the next season.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 12:11:53 PM
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2021, 12:12:44 PM
what if we took an IOL in the 7th round?Gunt Flenderson, Upper Peninsula Technical College
Scouting report: raw developmental project, converted to OG from waterboy in his senior year, possible sleeper steal, born without knees
Post by: IATA on March 18, 2021, 12:15:34 PM
In general, I'm not a fan of paying big money to guards so I'm not disappointed. He was the best OL on the market so I understand why others are.Why?
Being cheap/not having quality players hasn't exactly panned out for us.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 12:17:28 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 18, 2021, 12:18:34 PM
Why?Nothing has panned out for us.
Being cheap/not having quality players hasn't exactly panned out for us.
Post by: MBGreen on March 18, 2021, 12:19:54 PM
Gunt Flenderson, Upper Peninsula Technical CollegeI love Gunt
Scouting report: raw developmental project, converted to OG from waterboy in his senior year, possible sleeper steal, born without knees
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 12:20:43 PM
Why?
Being cheap/not having quality players hasn't exactly panned out for us.
Spending an excessive amount of money to obtain "quality players" hasn't exactly panned out for us either...
Post by: MBGreen on March 18, 2021, 12:21:48 PM
Spending an excessive amount of money to obtain "quality players" hasn't exactly panned out for us either...People forget we spent billions on Mosley for a game and a half.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2021, 12:33:42 PM
If we don’t develop our next QB properly, we’ll be looking for a new one by the time Lawson’s 3 year contract is up.
Post by: Johnny English on March 18, 2021, 12:35:50 PM
If there's one position group I'm confident in Douglas' ability to evaluate, it's offensive line.
van Roten, Lewis, Kalil and to a lesser extent McGovern would temper that enthusiasm, for me, especially when you consider the players we didn't go after or get such as Morse, Linsley, Zeitler and Conklin, and the effort spent pursuing someone we never really stood a chance of getting (Thuney) two seasons in a row. Drafting Becton was an excellent decision, if not a very difficult one, and Fant is definitely better than perhaps many expected.
At best I'd say it's a wash for him so far.
Post by: Johnny English on March 18, 2021, 12:38:01 PM
People forget we spent billions on Mosley for a game and a half.
In fairness he was really freaking good for that game and a half, and it's not his fault or Maccagnan's that he got injured v Buffalo. As to the covid opt-out, it's really hard to make a call on that - does he / did he have legitimate concerns, was it affected by not wanting to play for the dumpster fire of a coaching staff? Of all the things to blame Maccagnan for, it's hard to be too mad about that one because while it clearly hasn't worked out, what little play we have seen from Mosley in a Jets jersey was dominant.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2021, 12:40:28 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 18, 2021, 12:53:53 PM
If we would've signed someone like Thuney and ignored the EDGE rusher position...you'd be complaining about that. I get how this works.
I can absolutely guarantee this is untrue.
This defense has been in the top third at times over the past 2 decades, despite not having an elite pass rusher like Abraham.
Without a strong OL, the offense won't be good.
That’s just your opinion. I would rather have Thuney than Lawson by a country mile.
Bingo
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 12:55:40 PM
van Roten, Lewis, Kalil and to a lesser extent McGovern would temper that enthusiasm, for me, especially when you consider the players we didn't go after or get such as Morse, Linsley, Zeitler and Conklin, and the effort spent pursuing someone we never really stood a chance of getting (Thuney) two seasons in a row. Drafting Becton was an excellent decision, if not a very difficult one, and Fant is definitely better than perhaps many expected.
At best I'd say it's a wash for him so far.
Most of the OL acquisitions Douglas has made via free agency/trade have been cheap deals that could easily be gotten out of. van Roten was very good with Carolina prior to last year, Lewis was a cheap acquisition from the Ravens that Douglas had some familiarity with, Kalil was a total gamble because we didn't have a starting center a month before the season started (not long after Douglas was hired). McGovern was a disappointment last year but I'm hopeful that he'll look better in a better offense.
Morse was signed before Douglas was hired as GM. Linsley is TBD because Douglas chose to stick with McGovern over making Linsley the highest-paid center in the league. Zeitler I can't really speak to but he's 32 and may have wanted to play for a contender. Douglas clearly didn't want to fork over what it was going to cost to sign Conklin and, fortunately, he was able to find plenty of value in Fant.
In my earlier post, I was mostly referring to my confidence in Douglas' ability to evaluate OL in the draft. He has yet to invest significant money in the position in free agency and I think that's by design.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 18, 2021, 12:56:48 PM
But the ways he's addressed OL the past couple of years leaves a lot to be desired. Becton is his best move, and it was the kind of pick that kept Maccagnan employed too long.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2021, 12:58:32 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 18, 2021, 01:00:12 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 18, 2021, 01:03:11 PM
FTR, I don't hold Thuney against Douglas. It's perfectly valid that he'd chose to go to a team that's played in the last couple of Super Bowls, even if JD offered him a few more millions. At that level, if you care about winning, a couple of million wouldn't make a difference.This is his 2nd real offseason here. I don't really count 2019. OL needed a complete overhaul. Last year, he drafted Becton, and he brought in McGovern and Fant, both of whom are likely starters again this year.
But the ways he's addressed OL the past couple of years leaves a lot to be desired. Becton is his best move, and it was the kind of pick that kept Maccagnan employed too long.
If he doesn't significantly address the OL by the end of the draft, then we can have a discussion. Too early IMO.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 18, 2021, 01:09:08 PM
This is his 2nd real offseason here. I don't really count 2019. OL needed a complete overhaul. Last year, he drafted Becton, and he brought in McGovern and Fant, both of whom are likely starters again this year.
If he doesn't significantly address the OL by the end of the draft, then we can have a discussion. Too early IMO.
It's absolutely too early.
But there are people who are blind faith believing he's going to do a good job, and he has nothing on his resume so far that makes him any better than Maccagnan.
His 2021 draft is critical to the future of this team and the new coaching staff.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 18, 2021, 01:24:40 PM
It's absolutely too early.
But there are people who are blind faith believing he's going to do a good job, and he has nothing on his resume so far that makes him any better than Maccagnan.
His 2021 draft is critical to the future of this team and the new coaching staff.
I can't agree more with this statement.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 01:28:16 PM
This is his 2nd real offseason here. I don't really count 2019. OL needed a complete overhaul. Last year, he drafted Becton, and he brought in McGovern and Fant, both of whom are likely starters again this year.
If he doesn't significantly address the OL by the end of the draft, then we can have a discussion. Too early IMO.
This is where I'm at, as well.
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2021, 01:38:36 PM
van Roten, Lewis, Kalil and to a lesser extent McGovern would temper that enthusiasm,
Most of those moves were low risk/low reward with what was available on the market. It's like harping on day 3 draft picks not becoming starters.
Plus it's not really fair to mention McGovern with the rest (even with your qualifier) when he hasn't been bad.
Post by: Johnny English on March 18, 2021, 01:39:51 PM
Lewis was a cheap acquisition from the Ravens that Douglas had some familiarity with
Douglas gave him a 3 year $18M deal. That's not cheap for the level of player he is. The player that Douglas brought in to replace him and who was a huge improvement just signed a 3 year $13M deal with Carolina.
I'm not down on Douglas, I'm just not having him painted as some kind of OL savant when as a whole it's barely any better than it was under previous regimes.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 18, 2021, 01:48:04 PM
Douglas gave him a 3 year $18M deal. That's not cheap for the level of player he is. The player that Douglas brought in to replace him and who was a huge improvement just signed a 3 year $13M deal with Carolina.
The deal included $6M guaranteed. He'll probably be cut some time this offseason with little consequence.
I'm not down on Douglas, I'm just not having him painted as some kind of OL savant when as a whole it's barely any better than it was under previous regimes.
I like most of what I've seen so far. I'm sparing judgment until after the draft.
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2021, 01:57:03 PM
The deal included $6M guaranteed. He'll probably be cut some time this offseason with little consequence.
GVR also has no guaranteed money this year.
Post by: MBGreen on March 18, 2021, 02:01:36 PM
This is his 2nd real offseason here. I don't really count 2019. OL needed a complete overhaul. Last year, he drafted Becton, and he brought in McGovern and Fant, both of whom are likely starters again this year.Finally we have a bingo
If he doesn't significantly address the OL by the end of the draft, then we can have a discussion. Too early IMO.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 21, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
There's reason to think all 3 guys could be really good. There's also risk involved in all 3, but it's only short-term risk because they're short-term contracts.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 23, 2021, 02:03:05 PM
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
29s
The #Steelers have released CB Steven Nelson.
go get em, Joe
Do it.
Joe D already spent his FA allowance. Got to have the most cap space for next season
Post by: MBGreen on March 23, 2021, 02:04:53 PM
Joe D already spent his FA allowance. Got to have the most cap space for next season
what's wrong with you?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 23, 2021, 02:24:03 PM
what's wrong with you?
I'm just not in love with Joe D like you are.
Post by: MBGreen on March 23, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
I'm just not in love with Joe D like you are.
What's wrong with JD.... Not Charlie Casserly enough for you?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 24, 2021, 08:16:05 AM
What's wrong with JD.... Not Charlie Casserly enough for you?
Nothing is wrong him, just not ready to crown him as an amazing GM. IMO. through his tenure, he's done an average job at best
Post by: bojanglesman on March 24, 2021, 08:28:05 AM
Nothing is wrong him, just not ready to crown him as an amazing GM. IMO. through his tenure, he's done an average job at bestHES THE GREATEST GM IN HISTORY YOU SHUT THE freak UP AND GET OFF THIS WEBSITE JACKASS ILL KILL YOU.
DONT YOU EVER FORGET IT lover of the older lady
Post by: MBGreen on March 24, 2021, 08:32:17 AM
Nothing is wrong him, just not ready to crown him as an amazing GM. IMO. through his tenure, he's done an average job at best
An average job?
Our last 2 GMs weren't qualifed to work at Jimmy Johns.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 24, 2021, 08:34:00 AM
An average job?How does that point refute anything Loyal said?
Our last 2 GMs weren't qualifed to work at Jimmy Johns.
Post by: MBGreen on March 24, 2021, 08:37:45 AM
How does that point refute anything Loyal said?
because JD has worked out just fine so far. He made one mistake (the Robby Anderson contract) and publicly admitted to it (which never happens from any GM). I think we're in good hands.
Whining that he didn't fill every single hole in our roster in FA is something i would expect from TGG. Especially when we still have the draft and ample draft capital.
are you good now?
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 24, 2021, 08:45:19 AM
because JD has worked out just fine so far. He made one mistake (the Robby Anderson contract) and publicly admitted to it (which never happens from any GM). I think we're in good hands.Is this you trying to explain how your previous non-sequitur made sense or is this you trying again with a point that isn't a non-sequiter?
Whining that he didn't fill every single hole in our roster in FA is something i would expect from TGG. Especially when we still have the draft and ample draft capital.
are you good now?
Post by: MBGreen on March 24, 2021, 08:52:16 AM
Is this you trying to explain how your previous non-sequitur made sense or is this you trying again with a point that isn't a non-sequiter?
Our last 2 GMs don't have jobs in the league, and JD has been great so far. I understand LJF doesn't want to crown him yet (and that's fine), but shitting on everything he does is actually more retarded than crowning him.....sooo i'm not sure where you're getting the disconnect.
Post by: insanity on March 24, 2021, 08:59:51 AM
Our last 2 GMs don't have jobs in the league, and JD has been great so far. I understand LJF doesn't want to crown him yet (and that's fine), but shitting on everything he does is actually more retarded than crowning him.....sooo i'm not sure where you're getting the disconnect.I think he is saying there is a grey area between those two opinions
Post by: MBGreen on March 24, 2021, 09:02:54 AM
I think he is saying there is a grey area between those two opinions
and i'm saying there's nothing wrong with a little skepticism. But shitting on every move? c'mon now.
Some jets fans live to be miserable, i guess. I choose not to. I had enough of that excrement with the last 3 regimes.
Post by: Badger on March 24, 2021, 09:15:49 AM
I think he is saying there is a grey area between those two opinionsGrey areas died in 2008
Post by: bojanglesman on March 24, 2021, 09:45:05 AM
and i'm saying there's nothing wrong with a little skepticism. But shitting on every move? c'mon now.You'll be miserable and like it. That's what free drinks at the Manager's Reception at Embassy Suites is for.
Some jets fans live to be miserable, i guess. I choose not to. I had enough of that excrement with the last 3 regimes.
Post by: MBGreen on March 24, 2021, 09:48:49 AM
You'll be miserable and like it. That's what free drinks at the Manager's Reception at Embassy Suites is for.
I'm gonna fart rainbows all over their breakfast buffet.
Post by: insanity on March 24, 2021, 10:17:54 AM
Grey areas died in 2008Grey is socialist
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 24, 2021, 11:15:18 AM
Our last 2 GMs don't have jobs in the league, and JD has been great so far. I understand LJF doesn't want to crown him yet (and that's fine), but shitting on everything he does is actually more retarded than crowning him.....sooo i'm not sure where you're getting the disconnect.
Shitting on his every move was my approach to Gase not JD.
I'm cautiously optimistic on JD...so far (we'll see how the draft goes) his attempt to address the OL was signing a garbage backup that LAC couldn't wait to get rid of.
Post by: MBGreen on March 24, 2021, 11:38:48 AM
Shitting on his every move was my approach to Gase not JD.
I'm cautiously optimistic on JD...so far (we'll see how the draft goes) his attempt to address the OL was signing a garbage backup that LAC couldn't wait to get rid of.
Ok...we good.
The OL FA market was garbage after Thuney (and Thuney wasn't coming here). If this is still an issue after the draft, then fine, you have every right to be pissed. But we're not there yet.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 24, 2021, 02:41:44 PM
I like most of what Douglas has done, but it's still so early.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 24, 2021, 02:43:10 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 24, 2021, 03:12:05 PM
Mangini is a genius
fixed your post
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 24, 2021, 08:51:02 PM
Free agents and roster construction have been hit and miss. There haven't really been any egregiously bad moves but he hasn't taken that many big swings. Kalil was a desperation gamble that made sense at the time since he was dealt someone else's hand.
Post by: Badger on April 05, 2021, 03:34:02 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 05, 2021, 03:40:42 PM
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1379169686609391623?s=19BUT HOW DO WE BUILD AROUND A YOUNG QB? WHAT MAKES THIS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE DID WITH DARNOLD?
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 05, 2021, 03:45:48 PM
BUT HOW DO WE BUILD AROUND A YOUNG QB? WHAT MAKES THIS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE DID WITH DARNOLD?The next one won't be named Darnold.
Post by: reuben on April 05, 2021, 03:47:05 PM
Post by: Badger on April 05, 2021, 03:47:17 PM
BUT HOW DO WE BUILD AROUND A YOUNG QB? WHAT MAKES THIS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE DID WITH DARNOLD?GTB
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 03:48:17 PM
I'd really like to go get a vet QB now.Nick Mullens SZN
Post by: reuben on April 05, 2021, 03:51:37 PM
Nick Mullens SZN
I was thinking more like an Uncle Josh, Mark Brunell type. Not that either of those guys helped their padawans.
Post by: reuben on April 05, 2021, 03:52:01 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 05, 2021, 03:53:59 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 04:02:16 PM
I was thinking more like an Uncle Josh, Mark Brunell type. Not that either of those guys helped their padawans.Maybe Elvis Grbac is free.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 05, 2021, 04:03:57 PM
I was thinking more like an Uncle Josh, Mark Brunell type. Not that either of those guys helped their padawans.
Let this concept die.
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 04:29:11 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 05, 2021, 04:32:18 PM
I wonder if Douglas will send a late round pick to the Bears for Big Dick Nick Foles.His dick fell off after he won a Super Bowl.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 05, 2021, 04:58:53 PM
The man never told a lie.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 05, 2021, 05:01:49 PM
Joe Douglas finally lived up to his promise of getting Sam Darnold some playmakers by bringing Darnold directly to the playmakers.
The man never told a lie.
Lmao.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 05, 2021, 05:29:20 PM
Alex Smith, ideally.
This is the guy I would call, absolutely.
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 05:43:04 PM
https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1379171243652419584?s=19
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 05, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
As a believer in building thru the draft...this tweet makes me hard.If all goes well, the Jets are in position to compete next season. You hope you hit at quarterback, and this draft should help build a foundation of cost-controlled players to build around. Next year, you add to it with a lot more picks. By 2023, the goal is that you have a rising star QB, a core group of young players that are growing around him, some veterans added with our cap space to supplement them, and you have a chance to go all in in 2024 to win in the last year of a relatively cheap quarterback.
https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1379171243652419584?s=19
Darnold was doomed because of poor drafting for years and a lack of draft picks around him and a poor coaching staff. We have a boatload of picks to build around Wilson.
There's no guarantee this works, but we finally have the coach and QB on the same timeline, and a ton of picks to mold the team in the image of Saleh/LaFleur. The draft is a lottery, but we get a lot of chances in the draft, and if we do a good job, there's no reason we can't have a fun team to root for.
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 06:23:47 PM
If all goes well, the Jets are in position to compete next season. You hope you hit at quarterback, and this draft should help build a foundation of cost-controlled players to build around. Next year, you add to it with a lot more picks. By 2023, the goal is that you have a rising star QB, a core group of young players that are growing around him, some veterans added with our cap space to supplement them, and you have a chance to go all in in 2024 to win in the last year of a relatively cheap quarterback.It's a nice change from when Tanny used to trade picks away like baseball cards.
Darnold was doomed because of poor drafting for years and a lack of draft picks around him and a poor coaching staff. We have a boatload of picks to build around Wilson.
There's no guarantee this works, but we finally have the coach and QB on the same timeline, and a ton of picks to mold the team in the image of Saleh/LaFleur. The draft is a lottery, but we get a lot of chances in the draft, and if we do a good job, there's no reason we can't have a fun team to root for.
Your post is bang on btw.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 05, 2021, 06:47:10 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 05, 2021, 06:51:40 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 06:52:42 PM
To be honest I really don't give too much of a excrement about the number of picks we have overall. I only care about the ones in the top four rounds or so. It's great that we have a good number of picks in the top few rounds, but I have a hard time getting a boner over a ton of sixth rounders.Those 6th rounders can be used as currency to move up and down the board.
EDIT: F U Cato
Post by: bojanglesman on April 05, 2021, 07:13:46 PM
Those 6th rounders can be used as currency to move up and down the board.Douglas will trade out of those sixth round picks for even more sixth round picks in 2022 and 2023
EDIT: F U Cato
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 07:30:18 PM
Douglas will trade out of those sixth round picks for even more sixth round picks in 2022 and 2023He's not Belichick
Post by: bojanglesman on April 05, 2021, 08:00:44 PM
He's not BelichickBeli trades 2nd rounders for 47 6th rounders.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on April 05, 2021, 08:04:44 PM
This is the guy I would call, absolutely.
Nope. We're drafting another QB in round 4.
Post by: Badger on April 05, 2021, 08:41:29 PM
Darnold was doomed because of poor drafting for years and a lack of draft picks around him and a poor coaching staff. We have a boatload of picks to build around Wilson.
Yeah but Joe Douglas failed to reverse a decade of bad team building in a single year, so it's primarily his fault and Wilson will fail because Darnold did.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 05, 2021, 09:01:54 PM
Post by: Johnny English on April 05, 2021, 09:02:42 PM
Just. Start. Fixing. The. freaking. OLine.
FYP
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 05, 2021, 09:03:42 PM
FYPHe drafted Becton so he started it.
Post by: Johnny English on April 05, 2021, 09:05:40 PM
He drafted Becton so he started it.
That's like saying he started fixing the roof by repointing the chimney. It's still freaking raining on the carpet.
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 09:08:51 PM
Post by: Laxin on April 05, 2021, 09:33:33 PM
That's like saying he started fixing the roof by repointing the chimney. It's still freaking raining on the carpet.
He spent the most valuable asset he had available during his time as GM on a blue chip LT... cmon man. It's fair to be critical, but an entire unit isn't rebuilt overnight.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 05, 2021, 09:45:39 PM
Trading picks for players is not a terrible strategy. It becomes a terrible strategy when you trade picks for players and then either let them walk on their expiring contracts or cut them, which was one of Tanny's many, many flaws.
Post by: Badger on April 05, 2021, 10:14:44 PM
I don't get why people seem to act like his tenure started with last year's draft.
It effectively did. By the time he arrived in 2019 FA and the draft were over.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 05, 2021, 10:22:28 PM
He still had a free agency period post-draft, post-TC, both milestones with significant cuts, and a trade market the entire time. I refuse to beleive that Ryan Kalil was his only option.
It effectively did. By the time he arrived in 2019 FA and the draft were over.
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 10:27:22 PM
He still had a free agency period post-draft, post-TC, both milestones with significant cuts, and a trade market the entire time. I refuse to beleive that Ryan Kalil was his only option.
Who was available?
Good players don't get cut in the summer. And the FA pool was picked clean.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 05, 2021, 10:28:51 PM
Who was available?Again, you're missing the other option which somehow became the biggest sin a GM could commit on this board.
Good players don't get cut in the summer. And the FA pool was picked clean.
Post by: MBGreen on April 05, 2021, 10:30:42 PM
Again, you're missing the other option which somehow became the biggest sin a GM could commit on this board.
Enlighten me, because i have no idea what you're talking about.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 06, 2021, 01:36:32 AM
He still had a free agency period post-draft, post-TC, both milestones with significant cuts, and a trade market the entire time. I refuse to beleive that Ryan Kalil was his only option.
Holy excrement. Where was he supposed to find a starting center in June? This is so idiotic and irrelevant that it hardly warrants a response.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 06, 2021, 05:35:03 AM
Again, you're missing the other option which somehow became the biggest sin a GM could commit on this board.
Which OL was available to trade for after the draft in 2019?
Which one was signed in TC that turned out better than Kalil did for us?
Post by: Heismanberg on April 06, 2021, 06:14:56 AM
Douglas did what he could to jumpstart the offensive line. Let’s see if he lands a center or guard in the first few rounds.
Post by: Coach K on April 06, 2021, 06:41:13 AM
Post by: Coach K on April 06, 2021, 06:48:40 AM
George Fant was a good signing too.Yeah im dead tired of seeing mock drafts with multiple OTs its the interior that needs help lol
Douglas did what he could to jumpstart the offensive line. Let’s see if he lands a center or guard in the first few rounds.
Post by: MBGreen on April 06, 2021, 06:49:35 AM
Question: Is Joe Douglas the "Joe" in Trader Joe's.....because he gud.
Post by: Badger on April 06, 2021, 06:57:02 AM
George Fant was a good signing too.He didn't time travel to 2008 to sign late-prime Faneca and Woody, and for this he must be punished.
Douglas did what he could to jumpstart the offensive line. Let’s see if he lands a center or guard in the first few rounds.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 06, 2021, 07:57:07 AM
George Fant was a good signing too.I've never once complained about Fant.
Douglas did what he could to jumpstart the offensive line. Let’s see if he lands a center or guard in the first few rounds.
Post by: MBGreen on April 06, 2021, 08:11:30 AM
I've never once complained about Fant.
Fant is part of the oline...so by transitive properties, you did.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 06, 2021, 08:31:10 AM
Fant is part of the oline...so by transitive properties, you did.You're Shapiroing again.
Post by: MBGreen on April 06, 2021, 08:40:40 AM
You're Shapiroing again.
can't fight mathematics
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 06, 2021, 08:51:01 AM
I don't know about anyone else, but if he picks anything other than corner that isn't offense in the first 3 rounds, I'm going to lose my excrement. Surround Wilson with talent and let's do this right for once.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 06, 2021, 08:55:42 AM
We all know where Douglas is going with #2 now, the question is what he does with his other picks the first couple of days.
I don't know about anyone else, but if he picks anything other than corner that isn't offense in the first 3 rounds, I'm going to lose my excrement. Surround Wilson with talent and let's do this right for once.
DL coming up.
Post by: Coach K on April 06, 2021, 09:33:12 AM
You're Shapiroing again.Hiring Robert Saleh goes against the fundamental Judeo Christian values this country is founded on - Ben Shapiro
*Alex Jones walks in *
JD to staff: I said sign Alex Smith
Alex Jones : Robert Salehs neighbor from when he was a child had humus at a Hamas location . The fact his brother was there and survived 9/11 and the fact the Jets are the team and his neighbor was on one of those jets that took down the towers
Christopher Johnson: what have I done
*woody walks in *
Woody : Ive sold the team to a twitch streamer
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 06, 2021, 11:46:15 AM
I've never once complained about Fant.But you keep bitching about the o-line. If you think Fant is fine, that's a JD guy. I assume you like Becton. McGovern is serviceable. So in one offseason, he added 3 new starters including a star.
Still a lot of work to do in the interior, but I'm not going to complain until after the draft.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 06, 2021, 11:47:45 AM
But you keep bitching about the o-line. If you think Fant is fine, that's a JD guy. I assume you like Becton. McGovern is serviceable. So in one offseason, he added 3 new starters including a star.
Still a lot of work to do in the interior, but I'm not going to complain until after the draft.
Was the O-line good last year?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 06, 2021, 11:51:04 AM
Pass block (NFL rank)
Becton -- 84% (51/65)
Fant -- 85.2% (46/65)
Run block
Becton -- 76% (19/65)
Fant -- 66.9% (63/65)
Wow Joe Douglas so good, no criticism allowed he’s only had 4 months to fix the line!
Team Pass Block Win Rate
1. Green Bay Packers, 74%
2. Cleveland Browns, 71%
3. Arizona Cardinals, 68%
4. Buffalo Bills, 64%
5. Kansas City Chiefs, 64%
6. New Orleans Saints, 64%
7. Los Angeles Rams, 63%
8. Baltimore Ravens, 62%
9. Seattle Seahawks, 62%
10. Philadelphia Eagles, 60%
11. New England Patriots, 60%
12. Indianapolis Colts, 60%
13. Las Vegas Raiders, 59%
14. Washington Football Team, 59%
15. Atlanta Falcons, 58%
16. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 57%
16. Minnesota Vikings, 57%
18. Chicago Bears, 56%
19. Houston Texans, 56%
20. San Francisco 49ers, 54%
21. Denver Broncos, 54%
22. Tennessee Titans, 54%
23. Detroit Lions, 54%
24. Carolina Panthers, 54%
25. Jacksonville Jaguars, 52%
26. Miami Dolphins, 51%
27. Dallas Cowboys, 51%
28. Cincinnati Bengals, 50%
29. Pittsburgh Steelers, 50%
30. New York Jets, 49%
31. New York Giants, 46%
32. Los Angeles Chargers, 46%
Team Run Block Win Rate
1. Green Bay Packers, 74%
2. Philadelphia Eagles, 74%
3. Washington Football Team, 73%
4. Baltimore Ravens, 73%
5. Houston Texans, 73%
6. Arizona Cardinals, 72%
7. New Orleans Saints, 72%
8. Cincinnati Bengals, 72%
9. New England Patriots, 72%
10. Indianapolis Colts, 72%
11. Carolina Panthers, 72%
12. Dallas Cowboys, 71%
13. Chicago Bears, 71%
14. New York Giants, 70%
15. Cleveland Browns, 70%
16. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 70%
17. Minnesota Vikings, 70%
18. Los Angeles Rams, 70%
19. Seattle Seahawks, 70%
20. Denver Broncos, 70%
21. Tennessee Titans, 70%
22. Detroit Lions, 70%
23. Miami Dolphins, 69%
24. San Francisco 49ers, 69%
25. Atlanta Falcons, 69%
26. Jacksonville Jaguars, 69%
27. Buffalo Bills, 69%
28. Pittsburgh Steelers, 69%
29. Las Vegas Raiders, 69%
30. New York Jets, 67%
31. Los Angeles Chargers, 67%
32. Kansas City Chiefs, 67%
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 06, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Was the O-line good last year?No. But it was better than in 2019, and we should expect it to be better in 2021. If it's not, we can complain.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 06, 2021, 11:52:30 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 06, 2021, 11:59:18 AM
Leaving now before yall tell me I can’t use statistics and that the OL was better because... idk why no one has given me an actual reason yetI get some of the stats were worse. From watching the games, it looked better to me, but it still sucked.
Hard to quantify OL play with stats alone. It's part of the story for sure, but not all of it.
Post by: MBGreen on April 06, 2021, 12:00:43 PM
Leaving now before yall tell me I can’t use statistics and that the OL was better because... idk why no one has given me an actual reason yetGase's scheme was definitely geared for sustained OL success. Must be why his offenses have been so successful in the past.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 06, 2021, 12:10:21 PM
But you keep bitching about the o-line. If you think Fant is fine, that's a JD guy. I assume you like Becton. McGovern is serviceable. So in one offseason, he added 3 new starters including a star.
Still a lot of work to do in the interior, but I'm not going to complain until after the draft.
Individually Becton and Fant were good players. McGovern is serviceable in the sense he was better at his job than Lewis, Van Rotten, Elefein and Bagger for Checkout Counter 2 were at guard. As a unit the line was still excrement.
It looked better to you, it didn't look better to me.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 06, 2021, 12:54:48 PM
Individually Becton and Fant were good players. McGovern is serviceable in the sense he was better at his job than Lewis, Van Rotten, Elefein and Bagger for Checkout Counter 2 were at guard. As a unit the line was still excrement.I'm hoping that Becton, Fant and McGovern could all improve, too. Becton enters year 2 and will hopefully stay healthy. Fant was a freak athlete who has been growing into OT his entire career. Maybe he has more room to grow. I also think McGovern might be a better fit in the Shanahan system.
It looked better to you, it didn't look better to me.
Obviously, it still needs work, and the line needs to be better than it was last year to help set up Wilson for success.
Post by: Laxin on April 06, 2021, 01:14:12 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 06, 2021, 01:17:09 PM
Did Becton’s play just fall off the map the last portion of the season because I remember distinctly him being graded very well early on in the season...I don't think his grades were ever amazing, we just loved the flashy highlights.
Post by: MBGreen on April 06, 2021, 01:24:41 PM
@EGreenbergJets
·
3m
"We have to surround our next quarterback with as much talent as possible." -Joe Douglas
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 06, 2021, 01:35:55 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 06, 2021, 01:38:56 PM
https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/1379502255490093064
Dear God,
please don't let this be a smokescreen
humbly yours,
MoronButthole Green
Post by: Johnny English on April 06, 2021, 01:42:21 PM
Ethan Greenberg
@EGreenbergJets
·
3m
"We have to surround our next quarterback with as much talent as possible." -Joe Douglas
We're going to spend the premium picks on defensive linemen and overrated DBs, the mid rounds on edge rushers and wideouts that didn't do much in college but the FO have convinced themselves are latent talents that everyone else has missed, and then a few scrub OL at the back end. It's a strategy we've committed to over many years with multiple GMs, it seems a shame to abandon it just as it's about to work this time.
Disclaimer: this post is a joke. I do not believe that we are about to do this. Please do not confuse my irritation with the Darnold situation and attempt to make a funny for signs that I am going full SOJF. I am more than able to be both annoyed about Darnold and optimistic for the future at the same time.
Post by: MBGreen on April 06, 2021, 01:43:16 PM
We're going to spend the premium picks on defensive linemen and overrated DBs, the mid rounds on edge rushers and wideouts that didn't do much in college but the FO have convinced themselves are latent talents that everyone else has missed, and then a few scrub OL at the back end. It's a strategy we've committed to over many years with multiple GMs, it seems a shame to abandon it just as it's about to work this time.
Disclaimer: this post is a joke. I do not believe that we are about to do this. Please do not confuse my irritation with the Darnold situation and attempt to make a funny for signs that I am going full SOJF. I am more than able to be both annoyed about Darnold and optimistic for the future at the same time.
Disclaimer 2: freak you
Post by: Laxin on April 06, 2021, 03:43:07 PM
Dear God,
please don't let this be a smokescreen
humbly yours,
MoronButthole Green
No reason for smoke at this point you would think.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 06, 2021, 03:50:04 PM
No reason for smoke at this point you would think.
Only a few reasons, in case something totally unexpected happens with Wilson between now and draft day, some injury/accident, Lawrence falls etc.
There’s always reason for posturing until we have to turn the card in. But yeah everyone and their grandmother knows what we are doing at #2 and the only thing that (is likely-ish) to change that is Lawrence being on the board at 2
Post by: Laxin on April 06, 2021, 03:53:55 PM
I don't think his grades were ever amazing, we just loved the flashy highlights.
This was after week 6:
Lowest QB pressure % among 1st RD OTs:
1. Mekhi Becton, Jets - 4.8%
2. Tristan Wirfs, Bucs - 5.1%
3. Jedrick Wills Jr, Browns - 5.2%
4. Austin Jackson, Dolphins - 7.6%
5. Andrew Thomas, Giants - 14.2%
per PFF
This was posted after week 11 (so weeks 8-11):
Just 1 pressure allowed by Mekhi Becton against the Dolphins.
Over last 4 games, Becton has given up 4 pressures (all of them were hurries - 0 sacks or hits) over 111 protection snaps (3.6% pressure rate)
This was posted by PFF about weeks 10 and 11
Mekhi Becton over his last two games
▪️ 72 pass-block snaps
▪️ 1 QB pressure allowed
▪️ 0 sacks
So from week 1 through week 11 he seemed to have pretty damn good stats according to PFF. His play didn't seem to drop off considerably to my eye, so I don't really see how he ended up as the 51st ranked OT out of 65 players by the end of the year. I understand he was banged up for most of the year, but something isn't really adding up imo.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 06, 2021, 03:57:49 PM
This was after week 6:Because quantifying offensive line play with advanced metrics is extremely difficult, and you're going to get different rankings depending at what you're looking at.
Lowest QB pressure % among 1st RD OTs:
1. Mekhi Becton, Jets - 4.8%
2. Tristan Wirfs, Bucs - 5.1%
3. Jedrick Wills Jr, Browns - 5.2%
4. Austin Jackson, Dolphins - 7.6%
5. Andrew Thomas, Giants - 14.2%
per PFF
This was posted after week 11 (so weeks 8-11):
Just 1 pressure allowed by Mekhi Becton against the Dolphins.
Over last 4 games, Becton has given up 4 pressures (all of them were hurries - 0 sacks or hits) over 111 protection snaps (3.6% pressure rate)
This was posted by PFF about weeks 10 and 11
Mekhi Becton over his last two games
▪️ 72 pass-block snaps
▪️ 1 QB pressure allowed
▪️ 0 sacks
So from week 1 through week 11 he seemed to have pretty damn good stats according to PFF. His play didn't seem to drop off considerably to my eye, so I don't really see how he ended up as the 51st ranked OT out of 65 players by the end of the year.
Looks like he finished 31st on PFF.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 06, 2021, 03:58:57 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 06, 2021, 04:01:30 PM
This was after week 6:
Lowest QB pressure % among 1st RD OTs:
1. Mekhi Becton, Jets - 4.8%
2. Tristan Wirfs, Bucs - 5.1%
3. Jedrick Wills Jr, Browns - 5.2%
4. Austin Jackson, Dolphins - 7.6%
5. Andrew Thomas, Giants - 14.2%
per PFF
This was posted after week 11 (so weeks 8-11):
Just 1 pressure allowed by Mekhi Becton against the Dolphins.
Over last 4 games, Becton has given up 4 pressures (all of them were hurries - 0 sacks or hits) over 111 protection snaps (3.6% pressure rate)
This was posted by PFF about weeks 10 and 11
Mekhi Becton over his last two games
▪️ 72 pass-block snaps
▪️ 1 QB pressure allowed
▪️ 0 sacks
So from week 1 through week 11 he seemed to have pretty damn good stats according to PFF. His play didn't seem to drop off considerably to my eye, so I don't really see how he ended up as the 51st ranked OT out of 65 players by the end of the year. I understand he was banged up for most of the year, but something isn't really adding up imo.
That was ESPN PBWR/RBWR above.
Don’t have anything from PFF to tier him with the rest of the OT’s besides this:
Highest-graded rookie OL:
1. Tristan Wirfs - 84.5
2. Michael Onwenu - 84.3
3. Mekhi Becton - 74.3
4. Damien Lewis - 71.2
Post by: Badger on April 06, 2021, 04:01:57 PM
He finished best in the history of ever in my elite subscription pro stats ($9.99/mo)Subscribe to my OnlyGords
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 06, 2021, 04:02:41 PM
/sfdmode
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 06, 2021, 04:03:12 PM
Subscribe to my OnlyGords
Would
Post by: bojanglesman on April 06, 2021, 04:10:46 PM
Subscribe to my OnlyGords(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c7/ed/fd/c7edfd413c043088322916ba487e0ed7.gif)
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 06, 2021, 05:39:49 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c7/ed/fd/c7edfd413c043088322916ba487e0ed7.gif)
r/gifsyoucanhear
Post by: Badger on April 06, 2021, 07:54:07 PM
And yes by the way, I DO have a Joe Douglas tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
Post by: reuben on April 06, 2021, 07:58:32 PM
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Joe Douglas. His moves are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of talent evaluation most of the moves will go over a typical fan's head. There's also Joe's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his scouting - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The real fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these moves, to realize that they're not just smart - they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Joe Douglas truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Joe's existencial catchphrase "The hunt never stops," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Joe's genius unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools... how I pity them.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/cYxFgrqg4D37JPeLze/giphy.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on April 07, 2021, 04:59:20 AM
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Joe Douglas. His moves are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of talent evaluation most of the moves will go over a typical fan's head. There's also Joe's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his scouting - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The real fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these moves, to realize that they're not just smart - they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Joe Douglas truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Joe's existencial catchphrase "The hunt never stops," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Joe's penis unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools... how I pity them.
FYP
Post by: insanity on April 07, 2021, 05:52:55 AM
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Joe Douglas. His moves are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of talent evaluation most of the moves will go over a typical fan's head. There's also Joe's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his scouting - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The real fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these moves, to realize that they're not just smart - they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Joe Douglas truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Joe's existencial catchphrase "The hunt never stops," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Joe's genius unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools... how I pity them.You should write like this more often
Post by: Badger on April 07, 2021, 06:05:32 AM
You should write like this more oftenContinue to avoid the corners of the internet where I got the template from
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 07, 2021, 06:28:07 AM
Maybe Elvis Grbac is free.
my cousins and i once saw a random dude in queens wearing a grbac jersey back in the day, and we all started roasting him asking him why he was wearing an Elvis Garbage Bag jersey in NY
Post by: IATA on April 07, 2021, 10:25:21 AM
my cousins and i once saw a random dude in queens wearing a grbac jersey back in the day, and we all started roasting him asking him why he was wearing an Elvis Garbage Bag jersey in NY
nobody in the bay had an elvis grbac jersey in 1993, how did this man acquire one wtf
Post by: MBGreen on April 08, 2021, 05:18:13 PM
My GM.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 08, 2021, 05:59:09 PM
https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/1380255300402446337?s=21
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 08, 2021, 06:06:09 PM
https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1380274393176285186?s=19Actual article is far more interesting than the aggregator tweeting about it.
My GM.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/08/inside-story-of-why-jets-traded-darnold-new-qb-search
Lots of great stuff in here, from the process, to the teams involved, to having it be necessary they trusted the young QB to play right away.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 08, 2021, 06:06:50 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 08, 2021, 06:16:24 PM
It has to be Zach Wilson at 2.Sac Wilson
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 08, 2021, 06:19:11 PM
It has to be Zach Wilson at 2.They're barely even trying to hide it. Not that they really need to.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 08, 2021, 06:20:19 PM
They're barely even trying to hide it. Not that they really need to.
It’s clearly a smokescreen for Fields
Post by: bojanglesman on April 08, 2021, 06:22:14 PM
It’s clearly a smokescreen for FieldsAll kidding aside, I think they'd take Jones or Lance before Fields.
Post by: MBGreen on April 08, 2021, 06:22:56 PM
Actual article is far more interesting than the aggregator tweeting about it.Yeah...I quickly read thru it. I'd love to know what that "strong offer" was right before FA...it had to be better than the haul we got from Carolina.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/08/inside-story-of-why-jets-traded-darnold-new-qb-search
Lots of great stuff in here, from the process, to the teams involved, to having it be necessary they trusted the young QB to play right away.
I know some people here still have reservations about Douglas....but after reading that, I really think we're in good hands.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 08, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
They're barely even trying to hide it. Not that they really need to.No matter how obvious it is, a Jets fan will never be able to rest comfortably.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 08, 2021, 06:24:22 PM
They're barely even trying to hide it. Not that they really need to.
Do any of the other QBs have medical concerns? Why even be concerned about those records or checks if Wilson isn't QB2?
They were clearly waiting to get enough information about Wilson's injury history before making the trade.
Rapoport said earlier today that we've gathered enough and it's a non-issue now.
The only worst kept secret than Wilson at 2 is Lawrence at 1.
Post by: Johnny English on April 08, 2021, 08:16:06 PM
Actual article is far more interesting than the aggregator tweeting about it.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/08/inside-story-of-why-jets-traded-darnold-new-qb-search
Lots of great stuff in here, from the process, to the teams involved, to having it be necessary they trusted the young QB to play right away.
It is an excellent article. I was chatting with MB about it, it's telling that he's giving that level of access to Breer ahead of any of the local beat guys. Imagine being the sports editor of an NY media outlet, you're going to be asking some questions of your guys about why the one team he covers isn't giving this to him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 08, 2021, 08:59:00 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 12, 2021, 08:36:03 AM
Quote
• The initial phone call to the Jets was … interesting. Fitterer and Rhule called from director of player personnel Pat Stewart’s phone, since Stewart was closest with New York GM Joe Douglas. Douglas answered in a sort of ditzy voice—“Stu-ert?”—and Fitterer and Rhule were caught off-guard. Stewart wasn’t. It was an inside joke referencing the Stuart character on Saturday Night Live’s Californians skit. After the initial awkwardness, Douglas told the Panthers’ crew that he needed to get through the pro days for the top quarterback prospects in the draft and get medicals for all of them, but to stay in touch. And through natural conversation in the weeks to come, the Jets and Panthers did.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/69/27/62/692762de9a160ef2dba78bff64b96672.png)
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2021, 10:31:08 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 12, 2021, 11:20:04 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 12, 2021, 11:47:26 AM
Post by: Johnny English on April 12, 2021, 12:02:25 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210412/75187a2688bddd20485a78868a211a23.jpg)
This is an excellent reference.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 12, 2021, 01:47:01 PM
This is an excellent reference.
Gracias.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 22, 2021, 06:24:10 PM
A significant off-season concern....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210422/a3d0aa2604b20407ea50a4bc835b9f0c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210422/9ef79c63181e1d1019a7cb1f8d0662b1.jpg)
Post by: Badger on April 22, 2021, 07:17:26 PM
Post by: reuben on April 22, 2021, 10:19:46 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on April 23, 2021, 09:55:01 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 23, 2021, 09:59:31 AM
Random Fact: I sold Bam Bam Bigelow a cell phone when I worked for VZW back in my college years. Very nice guyIs the flame skull tattoo as badass in person as it is on tv?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on April 23, 2021, 11:03:49 AM
Is the flame skull tattoo as badass in person as it is on tv?
It is. Although he did come in wearing a fedora but took it off eventually
Post by: Badger on April 25, 2021, 06:04:49 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/COGtrwsHhKM/?igshid=mljoe0zz4t6m
Post by: Heismanberg on April 25, 2021, 07:04:11 PM
Coach Saleh feels good about JD this week
https://www.instagram.com/p/COGtrwsHhKM/?igshid=mljoe0zz4t6m
This is the first time since the Eric Mangini era where I feel confident that our head coach (and his staff) are actively involved in the draft process.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 25, 2021, 08:05:16 PM
This is the first time since the Eric Mangini era where I feel confident that our head coach (and his staff) are actively involved in the draft process.
I’ll disagree ever so slightly. I always felt the coaches were involved in the process. But I never thought it was a productive discussion and/or a proper partnership in determining the right players for the team.
Rex couldn’t evaluate talent to save his life. He just wanted dudes he couldn’t stop, even if they didn’t make any sense or had aged beyond their abilities.
Duff just drafted whomever the freak he wanted regardless of what Bowles or Gase thought. He was purely “BPA” without any context for roster building and frankly couldn’t even identify the BPA anyways.
Now we have 2 guys who are actually working in unison and it seems like are actually going to have some productive results. Can’t wait to see what they can build together.
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 09:30:12 AM
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 09:31:09 AM
Kim Jones just said on @GMFB that the Jets scouting dept have written 1400 reports on prospects and have logged over 200 hours on zoom calls.We're taking a kicker at 34
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 09:31:57 AM
We're taking a kicker at 34
Ficken sucks...so i'm on board.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 29, 2021, 10:39:44 AM
Kim Jones just said on @GMFB that the Jets scouting dept have written 1400 reports on prospects and have logged over 200 hours on zoom calls.
So we actually have a fully functioning scouting department, and they are working their butts off? This makes perfect sense for the way JD seems to operate. Glad to see we aren't letting COVID stop us from evaluating players to the fullest possible extent.
I was hearing nonsense the other day about how teams were trying to expand their draft boards to 175 guys (from their normal 125 or so) and were struggling as they didn't have as extensive a set of scouting reports to work with.
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
So we actually have a fully functioning scouting department, and they are working their butts off? This makes perfect sense for the way JD seems to operate. Glad to see we aren't letting COVID stop us from evaluating players to the fullest possible extent.
I was hearing nonsense the other day about how teams were trying to expand their draft boards to 175 guys (from their normal 125 or so) and were struggling as they didn't have as extensive a set of scouting reports to work with.
It's a nice change from Duff chugging back coffee, closing his eyes, and pointing his finger at a board full of players to make his next pick.
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 10:57:40 AM
It's a nice change from Duff chugging back coffee, closing his eyes, and pointing his finger at a board full of players to make his next pick.How do you know it's a change from anything?
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 11:00:49 AM
How do you know it's a change from anything?
draft hat told me
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 11:06:14 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 04:01:03 PM
Is the thought that previous Jets scouts were also working very hard and trying their best too upsetting to think about?They only wrote 1300 pages, so they were lazy underachievers.
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 04:02:42 PM
They only wrote 1300 pages, so they were lazy underachievers.1250 of them were about Mike Nugent
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 04:15:20 PM
1250 of them were about Mike NugentShould have spent more time scouting Derek Pagel.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 29, 2021, 04:26:02 PM
Is the thought that previous Jets scouts were also working very hard and trying their best too upsetting to think about?
Actually Yes
Post by: ons on April 29, 2021, 05:10:15 PM
Quote
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
One storyline to watch over the next three days: The value of 2022 Draft picks is sky high. “Like gold,” as one executive described. There should be more talent, cleaner evaluations, more tape. We could see an all-time low of future picks dealt.
This has seemed like it should obvious for a while, and it seems like Douglas has been thinking this way since early last fall with the McLendon trade. We already have multiple picks every round in 2022 except for the 3rd and 7th (and 4th, I forgot we sent one back to Seattle), which is insane.
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 05:11:14 PM
This has seemed like it should obvious for a while, and it seems like Douglas has been thinking this way since early last fall with the McLendon trade. We already have multiple picks every round in 2022 except for the 3rd and 7th, which is insane.
#4Dchess
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 09:13:52 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2021, 09:15:15 PM
Joe Douglas....eliteWe got a QB and a fattie to protect him. We've been dreaming of this.
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 09:15:49 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 09:16:47 PM
We got a QB and a fattie to protect him. We've been dreaming of this.
you can thank my ugly draft hat later
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2021, 09:17:10 PM
you can thank my ugly draft hat laterHolmes jersey is elite.
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 09:17:59 PM
We got a QB and a fattie to protect him. We've been dreaming of this.
you can thank my ugly draft hat later
Holmes jersey is elite.
yessir
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2021, 09:23:46 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 09:28:34 PM
Only one way we drafted a QB and AVT. Joe Douglas is a member of JO. Which one of you fuckers is it?
I swear I’ll find you.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 09:37:01 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 09:45:05 PM
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 09:50:50 PM
Post by: reuben on April 29, 2021, 09:51:54 PM
https://twitter.com/BornHillsOnly/status/1387961442918338560?s=19
MULVANEY!
Big fan.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 29, 2021, 09:56:37 PM
I defended Douglas for months with how we handled offensive line by saying that we would obviously handle it in the draft. Well, now he's done that. I totally understand why people were critical of him not addressing OL besides Feeney. It is an obvious need. But AVT is a significant addition, and Douglas has now spent 2 of his 3 first-round picks on offensive linemen.
And his 3rd 1st rounder was the QB we had to have.
Douglas will NOT ever be accused of not trying to get the QB protected. He might have not picked the right QB or the right protector, but he definitely is dumping resources into the OL the past couple years.
I don't think we actually can get anything for them, but I expect Lewis and GVR just hit the trade block and we try like hell to trade one for a late day 3 pick this year or next. Preference to Lewis being traded.
Post by: Laxin on April 29, 2021, 10:04:14 PM
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 10:04:29 PM
And his 3rd 1st rounder was the QB we had to have.Dunno if you saw the stat in the AVT thread,
Douglas will NOT ever be accused of not trying to get the QB protected. He might have not picked the right QB or the right protector, but he definitely is dumping resources into the OL the past couple years.
I don't think we actually can get anything for them, but I expect Lewis and GVR just hit the trade block and we try like hell to trade one for a late day 3 pick this year or next. Preference to Lewis being traded.
Joe D has taken as many 1st round OL in 2 seasons as the Jets had in the previous 31 drafts.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2021, 10:06:17 PM
Wilson over Fields, all is right in the world
Post by: Libero_2 on April 29, 2021, 10:07:29 PM
Dunno if you saw the stat in the AVT thread,
Joe D has taken as many 1st round OL in 2 seasons as the Jets had in the previous 31 drafts.
I did. Blows my freaking mind. I bet JD doesn't even know that stat. It's kind of amazing we have fielded as many above average OL as we have over the past 30 years given that stat.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 29, 2021, 10:10:03 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 29, 2021, 10:12:08 PM
Props to Harris. I would much rather have Etienne for us.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 10:12:29 PM
Steelers pick is in. I know people have been saying RB for them, but I would bet anything they go JenkinsRun your excrement
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 11:11:43 PM
I was worried, “There’s always the draft,” would turn into ,”There’s always roster cuts,” and then “There’s always next year.” I was wrong.
this is all i wanted to hear.
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 11:18:49 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 11:56:18 PM
I see a few new faces in the Church of Latter Day Douglas.....welcome
This is bad and you should feel bad.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 11:56:57 PM
this is all i wanted to hear.
And I repeatedly told you that it’s exactly what I would say in this instance.
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 11:58:27 PM
And I repeatedly told you that it’s exactly what I would say in this instance.
you're a man of your word....i accept your apology on behalf of JD.
This is bad and you should feel bad.
I never feel bad...i don't give a freak. But since you like it so much, i'll continue to use it.
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 30, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
for such a long time with this team i've felt that, while we've possessed a good amount of valuable assets in terms of both draft picks and FA money, we would essentially just randomly thrown excrement at the wall hoping something would stick, and we fans would be left trying to rationalize our moves in a way that would make sense
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 01:09:11 PM
strange thinking about how we have a GM that both identifies our weaknesses and devises a vision and plan to address those weaknesses using our assets. it's a very simple concept but it's something i don't think we've had in a while
for such a long time with this team i've felt that, while we've possessed a good amount of valuable assets in terms of both draft picks and FA money, we would essentially just randomly thrown excrement at the wall hoping something would stick, and we fans would be left trying to rationalize our moves in a way that would make sense
I remember the Jets swapping Edwards for Burress only to let Burress walk after one season being the point where I soured on Tannenbaum and Rex because it was the first major sign that they had no long term plan.
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 01:11:22 PM
I remember the Jets swapping Edwards for Burress only to let Burress walk after one season being the point where I soured on Tannenbaum and Rex because it was the first major sign that they had no long term plan.
Rex letting Jericho walk in favor of Derrick Mason was when i learned Rex didn't understand offensive chemistry.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 01:14:34 PM
GORDKING
FTFY
Post by: Johnny English on April 30, 2021, 01:14:45 PM
strange thinking about how we have a GM that both identifies our weaknesses and devises a vision and plan to address those weaknesses using our assets. it's a very simple concept but it's something i don't think we've had in a while
for such a long time with this team i've felt that, while we've possessed a good amount of valuable assets in terms of both draft picks and FA money, we would essentially just randomly thrown excrement at the wall hoping something would stick, and we fans would be left trying to rationalize our moves in a way that would make sense
Almost like a strategy of drafting BPA rather than also accounting for need isn't a good idea, like one or two of us might have suggested before.
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 01:19:12 PM
Almost like a strategy of drafting BPA rather than also accounting for need isn't a good idea, like one or two of us might have suggested before.BPA is perfectly fine assuming you hit every pick and have an infinite amount of years to assemble a roster
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 01:22:30 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 01:23:08 PM
Cato...your avatar is freaking up the board
Check your messages.
Post by: Johnny English on April 30, 2021, 01:26:37 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 30, 2021, 02:18:47 PM
At some point, you have to choose to bottom out and start an actual rebuild. "Fortunately" we had Adam Gase do it for us.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 02:23:16 PM
BPA is perfectly fine assuming you hit every pick and have an infinite amount of years to assemble a roster
It’s the year 2050, and we have a roster with 50 1st round iDL
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 04:10:04 PM
It’s the year 2050, and we have a roster with 50 1st round iDLCoach Nathan Shepherd thinks 2050 is our year
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 30, 2021, 06:29:24 PM
1. OL Mekhi Becton
2. WR Denzel Mims
1. QB Zach Wilson
1. OL Alijah Vera-Tucker
2. WR Elijah Moore
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 06:30:25 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 30, 2021, 06:33:49 PM
Robert Saleh can coach late round guys on defense and go from there. Gotta love the philosophy.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 07:50:21 PM
Joe Douglas draft picks in first 2 rounds
1. OL Mekhi Becton
2. WR Denzel Mims
1. QB Zach Wilson
1. OL Alijah Vera-Tucker
2. WR Elijah Moore
Expanded
Since 2020, he has used 7 of 12 picks to help the QB
- Mekhi Becton, LT
- Denzel Mims, WR
- La’Mical Perine, RB
- James Morgan, QB
- Cameron Clark, OL
- Alijah Vera-Tucker, OL
- Elijah Moore, WR
-Hughes
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 07:51:26 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 30, 2021, 07:52:13 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 07:55:01 PM
Second time I've seen James Morgan referred to as someone drafted to help the quarterback.
His mere presence makes the starting QB appear to be a stud by comparison
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 30, 2021, 07:56:21 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 08:05:36 PM
https://twitter.com/KyleFaheyNFL/status/1388294782401789954
That’s David Fales music
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 30, 2021, 08:09:03 PM
https://twitter.com/KyleFaheyNFL/status/1388294782401789954
that is an elite tweet
the only thing fales helped out with was exposing us to that dope derriere beanie
Post by: Laxin on April 30, 2021, 10:11:14 PM
In just 2 years, he's added:
Zach Wilson
Mekhi Becton
Alijah Vera-Tucker
Denzel Mims
Elijah Moore
Corey Davis
George Fant
Connor McGovern
Spent three 1sts and two 2nds on the offense already and brought in an OC that runs one of the better systems in the NFL. At the very least, Wilson will be walking into a better situation than Darnold was ever put it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 10:14:04 PM
Because I would enjoy that.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 30, 2021, 10:55:13 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on May 01, 2021, 07:31:01 AM
Damn does it feel nice to have a GM that realizes the need to surround a QB with talent. Sadly he might've come a little late to help Sam, but he's doing everything he can to surround Zach with talent and build and offense.
In just 2 years, he's added:
Zach Wilson
Mekhi Becton
Alijah Vera-Tucker
Denzel Mims
Elijah Moore
Corey Davis
George Fant
Connor McGovern
Spent three 1sts and two 2nds on the offense already and brought in an OC that runs one of the better systems in the NFL. At the very least, Wilson will be walking into a better situation than Darnold was ever put it.
Not to sound SOJ but most of those guys aren't proven or aren't yet success stories.
Becton definitely.
Mims probably
The rest are completely unknown or questionable
Post by: Johnny English on May 01, 2021, 07:43:32 AM
Not to sound SOJ but most of those guys aren't proven or aren't yet success stories.
Becton definitely.
Mims probably
The rest are completely unknown or questionable
Davis, Fant and McGovern aren't questionable. We know exactly what they are what they can be. None are or will likely ever be stars, but all are perfectly serviceable NFL starters, and the point was that Douglas has brought in players to improve the offense which, unless you'd rather go back to Jeff Smith, Brandon Shell and Spencer Long, is fairly inarguable.
Post by: Laxin on May 01, 2021, 07:43:56 AM
Not to sound SOJ but most of those guys aren't proven or aren't yet success stories.
Becton definitely.
Mims probably
The rest are completely unknown or questionable
Corey Davis is definitely a proven starter in this league. Fant proved to be a fine addition.
What the players he drafted turn into is another story, but he’s brought in players that the majority of us here approve of. He’s done more for the offense than the past couple of GMs in just 2 years so I think it’s justified to optimistic.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 01, 2021, 08:01:13 AM
Corey Davis is definitely a proven starter in this league. Fant proved to be a fine addition.
What the players he drafted turn into is another story, but he’s brought in players that the majority of us here approve of. He’s done more for the offense than the past couple of GMs in just 2 years so I think it’s justified to optimistic.
Davis is a fine player with the Titans. Free agent signings don't always pan out.
Could be a monster success story, but silly to give credit where it's not due yet.
And McGovern and Fant are at best decent signings.
Sure you could say they improve the offense. But by that logic you could say Le'Veon Bell improved the offense too, and that was a horrendous move
Joe Douglas aggressively addressing OL in the draft is the best thing about him so far (to me)
Thoguh would've been nice had he double dipped
Post by: Libero_2 on May 01, 2021, 08:04:31 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 01, 2021, 08:41:13 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 01, 2021, 03:20:02 PM
Post by: MBGreen on May 01, 2021, 04:38:10 PM
@BrianCoz
·
3m
From quick research, it looks like 4 of the Jets draft picks were team captains in college - Zach Wilson, Alijah Vera-Tucker, Michael Carter (CB) and Jonathan Marshall.
#LeadershipSZN
Post by: Badger on May 01, 2021, 04:41:50 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 01, 2021, 05:35:19 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on May 01, 2021, 05:51:59 PM
Post by: MBGreen on May 01, 2021, 05:54:47 PM
JD needs to find a PK to replace Ficken to round out an impressive draft
+1
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 01, 2021, 08:32:05 PM
Brian Costello
@BrianCoz
·
3m
From quick research, it looks like 4 of the Jets draft picks were team captains in college - Zach Wilson, Alijah Vera-Tucker, Michael Carter (CB) and Jonathan Marshall.
#LeadershipSZN
mangini wasn't a bad drafter, but i remember him having a thing for drafting non-athletic character/leadership guys like anthony schlegel and erik smith
Post by: Libero_2 on May 01, 2021, 08:35:47 PM
mangini wasn't a bad drafter, but i remember him having a thing for drafting non-athletic character/leadership guys like anthony schlegel and erik smith
Wasn’t he also the one throwing Ghstons combine stats in the face of everyone after taking him?
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 01, 2021, 08:46:21 PM
Wasn’t he also the one throwing Ghstons combine stats in the face of everyone after taking him?
i think he threw gholston's combine stats in gholston's face to try and light a fire under him because of how much of a pvssy he turned out to be on the field
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 01, 2021, 09:11:31 PM
i think he threw gholston's combine stats in gholston's face to try and light a fire under him because of how much of a pvssy he turned out to be on the field
This is how I remember it being reported. Like literally grabbing files and shoving them in his face while screaming at him.
Gholston was a complete moron. I remember during the run up to the SB there was some rookie story competition and Gholston’s entry was the exact plot to Dude, Where’s My Car?
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 01, 2021, 10:03:51 PM
Post by: Badger on May 01, 2021, 10:48:29 PM
Gholston was a complete moron. I remember during the run up to the SB there was some rookie story competition and Gholston’s entry was the exact plot to Dude, Where’s My Car?
IIRC he thought his car got stolen, reported it, until he eventually realized he had just forgotten where he parked it.
Post by: Badger on May 05, 2021, 01:34:41 PM
https://youtu.be/mys7VfU_KL8
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 05, 2021, 01:39:52 PM
Radio interview with Joe DIt's a shame that Evan Roberts is stuck with Carton for the foreseeable future, but Boomer/Gio and Kay Show do decent enough interviews.
https://youtu.be/mys7VfU_KL8
Post by: Derek Smalls on June 06, 2021, 01:34:51 AM
Post by: reuben on June 06, 2021, 07:29:57 AM
https://twitter.com/jaregss/status/1401362360519073801?s=20
Mad Scientist Joe Douglas taking a couple of his prototype Gronk clones out for community time.
Post by: Johnny English on June 06, 2021, 07:53:54 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 06, 2021, 08:18:34 AM
Reilly and Jonesy!
This is an excellent reference.
Post by: MBGreen on June 25, 2021, 04:37:24 PM
Post by: MBGreen on June 25, 2021, 04:40:09 PM
Quote
NFL Update
@MySportsUpdate
·
1m
#Jets offseason:
Hired Robert Saleh as HC
Drafted Zach Wilson, Alijah Vera-Tucker & Elijah Moore with top 3 picks
Signed WR Corey Davis, DE Carl Lawson, WR Keelan Cole, T Morgan Moses, DT Sheldon Rankins, LB Jarrad Davis, S Lamarcus Joyner, DB Justin Hardee, RB Tevin Coleman
Get Hype
Post by: Andrew Ryan on June 25, 2021, 04:44:30 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on June 25, 2021, 04:45:17 PM
Thank you Gase, for bringing in this GM beast!
Sometimes you need something awful to lead to something good...
Post by: MBGreen on June 25, 2021, 04:46:55 PM
Not to sound too hyperbolic but this might be the best offseason we've ever had.
My optimism has been dead for roughly 6 seasons.....it's back with a vengeance this year.
Jesus christ, i may have to show up for the tailgate after all.
EDIT: your avy is money, btw.
Post by: bojanglesman on June 25, 2021, 05:17:31 PM
My optimism has been dead for roughly 6 seasons.....it's back with a vengeance this year.
Jesus christ, i may have to show up for the tailgate after all.
EDIT: your avy is money, btw.
My optimism is still dead. I need a defibrillator to believe in anything beyond 4-5 wins again.
This team is certainly better, but the most important position is a rookie QB and we are in a division where 1 win would be a surprise.
They are certainly doing everything to support the QB for a change, but in the end, he's still a rookie. A dud is just as likely as a winner there.
Post by: MBGreen on June 25, 2021, 05:18:22 PM
My optimism is still dead. I need a defibrillator to believe in anything beyond 4-5 wins again.
This team is certainly better, but the most important position is a rookie QB and we are in a division where 1 win would be a surprise.
They are certainly doing everything to support the QB for a change, but in the end, he's still a rookie. A dud is just as likely as a winner there.
jesus...you need Arbys asap.
Post by: bojanglesman on June 25, 2021, 05:20:27 PM
jesus...you need Arbys asap.
(http://www.shrinkinguy.com/uploads/2/5/6/2/25627565/5536947_orig.jpg)
Post by: Libero_2 on June 25, 2021, 05:29:26 PM
jesus...you need Arbys asap.
My optimism is still dead. I need a defibrillator to believe in anything beyond 4-5 wins again.
This team is certainly better, but the most important position is a rookie QB and we are in a division where 1 win would be a surprise.
They are certainly doing everything to support the QB for a change, but in the end, he's still a rookie. A dud is just as likely as a winner there.
JD may ultimately fail. Wilson may ultimately not be “the guy” but you can’t sit here and say JD buried his head in the sand and never bothered to try and give Wilson everything he could have need. Given the past attempts to develop a guy, we should all be excited to see how Wilson plays out, as he is unquestionably in the best position that any rookie QB has been in the for the Jets since probably Pennington.
Post by: Derek Smalls on June 25, 2021, 05:39:56 PM
Just. Finish. Fixing. The. freaking. OLine.Feeling any better yet?
Post by: Badger on June 25, 2021, 05:44:39 PM
Feeling any better yet?Jury's still out on RG
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 25, 2021, 05:44:47 PM
Feeling any better yet?
Slightly.
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 25, 2021, 05:45:03 PM
Jury's still out on RG
And Center. And RT.
Post by: bojanglesman on June 25, 2021, 06:39:51 PM
JD may ultimately fail. Wilson may ultimately not be “the guy” but you can’t sit here and say JD buried his head in the sand and never bothered to try and give Wilson everything he could have need. Given the past attempts to develop a guy, we should all be excited to see how Wilson plays out, as he is unquestionably in the best position that any rookie QB has been in the for the Jets since probably Pennington.I agree. Can't blame Douglas for anything if it fails.
Post by: Libero_2 on June 25, 2021, 08:05:12 PM
I agree. Can't blame Douglas for anything if it fails.
Disagree. We can and will blame him if it fails. My point simply was his approach was sound and he has made every reasonable attempt to get it right. His approach is solid. The question can simply be in the execution of his plan.
If he picked the wrong guys, it’s still on him, but his approach is absolutely the best we’ve seen in a long time
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 25, 2021, 08:09:48 PM
I agree. Can't blame Douglas for anything if it fails.
Any GM can be 100% blamed for missing on the #2 overall pick.
Post by: bojanglesman on June 25, 2021, 08:12:26 PM
Any GM can be 100% blamed for missing on the #2 overall pick.Ehh, we were all blowing Zach Wilson on here. I get that the buck stops with the GM. I'm just saying that I won't blame him. He drafted the consensus best QB available at 2. He surrounded him with weapons and beefed up the line. What more should he have done?
Post by: Libero_2 on June 25, 2021, 08:33:47 PM
Ehh, we were all blowing Zach Wilson on here. I get that the buck stops with the GM. I'm just saying that I won't blame him. He drafted the consensus best QB available at 2. He surrounded him with weapons and beefed up the line. What more should he have done?
Cato is correct. Unless something that no one could ever predict happens that results in Zach’s career ending very early, then JD will definitely get blamed (and should) especially if the guys taken later go on to be studs.
I have faith we are getting it right and this is going to actually work out. But if it turns out Wilson is a terrible football player, it’s on JD for not figuring that out, even if he did everything he could to support the guy.
Post by: Johnny English on June 25, 2021, 10:23:59 PM
Ehh, we were all blowing Zach Wilson on here.
I wasn't
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 25, 2021, 10:32:41 PM
Ehh, we were all blowing Zach Wilson on here.
Nope.
Post by: Badger on June 26, 2021, 07:24:07 AM
We all remember you were a huge Trevor Lawrence fan
I wasn't
Post by: Johnny English on June 26, 2021, 05:45:19 PM
We all remember you were a huge Trevor Lawrence fan
#TeamSam
Post by: MBGreen on June 26, 2021, 07:18:30 PM
#TeamSamHe sucks
Post by: Johnny English on June 26, 2021, 07:40:06 PM
He sucksYou suck
Post by: Libero_2 on June 26, 2021, 08:49:15 PM
You suck
We knew that already
Post by: AlioTheFool on June 27, 2021, 11:16:06 AM
I'm happy he's done exactly what I wanted with the OL--overhauled it. Did he do well? That remains to be seen, but he addressed it aggressively and you can't ask for more than that--other than I'd have been happier with more draft picks dedicated to the cause.
Wilson is his make-or-break decision. Whether you believe in him or not, Sam on his rookie deal was a get-out-of-jail-free card for JD. He could've parleyed the #2 pick into a truckload of picks and if Darnold failed, he'd still get to pick his QB next year. He choose to go all-in now. I'm 100% behind him, but he had better be right within 3 years.
Post by: dcm1602 on June 27, 2021, 01:47:48 PM
I'm a lot more on the wait-and-see side with Douglas.
I'm happy he's done exactly what I wanted with the OL--overhauled it. Did he do well? That remains to be seen, but he addressed it aggressively and you can't ask for more than that--other than I'd have been happier with more draft picks dedicated to the cause.
Wilson is his make-or-break decision. Whether you believe in him or not, Sam on his rookie deal was a get-out-of-jail-free card for JD. He could've parleyed the #2 pick into a truckload of picks and if Darnold failed, he'd still get to pick his QB next year. He choose to go all-in now. I'm 100% behind him, but he had better be right within 3 years.
If he builds the OL well enoguh and the talent at wideout pans out. Assuming Wilson didn't pan out, we could have the talent in place to turn a game manager into a guy that can win.
Of course Douglas put himself in this position
Post by: Miamipuck on June 29, 2021, 09:37:15 PM
We knew that already
X 1,000,000,000,000,000
Post by: MBGreen on June 30, 2021, 07:46:28 AM
X 1,000,000,000,000,000
#FakeNews
we all know you can't count past 20.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 02, 2021, 09:05:40 AM
LFG
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 11, 2021, 03:51:49 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 11, 2021, 03:54:38 PM
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2021, 04:24:53 PM
(DuffYou don't understand, the Jets are the only team that's not landing a Pro Bowler on day 3 of every draft.)
Post by: MBGreen on August 31, 2021, 05:29:25 PM
<3 Joe Douglas
Post by: Badger on August 31, 2021, 07:19:29 PM
After the Herndon trade...the Jets now have EIGHT picks in the top 128 of the 2022 draft.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210901/d0cc7d0b8d7001bbe119ee6f0b0035b7.jpg)
<3 Joe Douglas
Post by: MBGreen on September 01, 2021, 08:19:11 AM
#ManifestIt
Post by: bojanglesman on September 01, 2021, 08:53:55 AM
I expect Big Doug to trade for a TE today.
#ManifestIt
Trailer Trash available. Best I can do.
Post by: MBGreen on September 01, 2021, 08:58:34 AM
Trailer Trash available. Best I can do.
that was a subpar effort
Post by: bojanglesman on September 01, 2021, 09:00:55 AM
that was a subpar effort
He's good for one 38 yard catch every 3 games.
Post by: MBGreen on September 01, 2021, 09:09:31 AM
He's good for one 38 yard catch every 3 games.
those were darker, shittier times. Time to move past it.
Post by: MBGreen on September 01, 2021, 01:26:23 PM
Quote
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
#Eagles TE Zach Ertz, in his first public comments this season: "This is the place I want to be, this is the place I want to retire. ... I'm moving on from everything that happened this offseason. There have been apologies." Also says things have been "mended" with the team.
Go and get Goedart, big Doug. Become Wrath.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 01, 2021, 02:08:21 PM
Go and get Goedart, big Doug. Become Wrath.
No way that happens. Not sure what we are doing at TE. Maybe nothing. 4 WR sets babby.
Post by: Johnny English on September 01, 2021, 02:14:30 PM
Apparently the Vikings were trying to get Goedert before they switched to Herndon.
Go and get Goedart, big Doug. Become Wrath.
Post by: MBGreen on September 01, 2021, 02:21:35 PM
Apparently the Vikings were trying to get Goedert before they switched to Herndon.
Douglas is better at his job than the rube in Minnesota.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 01, 2021, 02:28:17 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 01, 2021, 04:09:00 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 01, 2021, 04:16:17 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 01, 2021, 04:17:40 PM
Mann is far from the worst punter we’ve had.
Clarke is a walking injury issue so I’m not holding out hope on him.
Zuniga had to be really freaking bad to be let go with our injuries at DE/EDGE.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 01, 2021, 04:23:30 PM
I want to see how Perine does in an NFL running game that isn’t based solely around handing off to Frank Gore before I call him a let down.I hated the Perine pick at the time, so my hopes for him aren't that high. The fact that he looks like he's behind Tevin Coleman and Ty Johnson and this year's 4th-rounder on the depth chart is a rough start.
Mann is far from the worst punter we’ve had.
Clarke is a walking injury issue so I’m not holding out hope on him.
Zuniga had to be really freaking bad to be let go with our injuries at DE/EDGE.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 01, 2021, 04:23:39 PM
Certainly seems like something brewing regarding Crowder. Probably will end up being that he needed a day off to visit his Grandma.
Turns out he tweaked his groin.
https://twitter.com/briancoz/status/1433177732553314309?s=21 (https://twitter.com/briancoz/status/1433177732553314309?s=21)
Post by: Johnny English on September 01, 2021, 04:31:45 PM
He better hope the 2021 draft is as good on paper as it looks because the 2020 draft is a whole lot of meh right about now. Becton and Hall are looking like keepers. Hopefully, Mims or Ashtyn turns into something.
If the 2020 draft is meh it's because the coaches were awful. Anything good about it is credit to Joe Douglas.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 01, 2021, 04:33:43 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 01, 2021, 04:55:43 PM
We’ll see how the 2020 class looks after Saleh and LaFleur get a season with them.coming off of a Gase year I’m surprised half of them didn’t retire.
Yes of course. I'm just poking fun at the "Joe Douglas walks on water" crowd. I've long maintained that it's impossible to judge any player whose career ended up in the hands of Gase and Loggains.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 01, 2021, 04:56:47 PM
I'm still expecting 4-7 wins.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 01, 2021, 05:08:07 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 01, 2021, 05:26:24 PM
I think they've done a good job this offseason.
I'm still expecting 4-7 wins.
I think 7 wins is wildly optimistic. Either someone on tbe defense has to turn into an all-pro or Wilson has to be in the OROTY conversation.
3 to 5 wins is more where I think we end up. With a high probability of a top 5 pick and virtually guaranteed top 10 pick.
Of course as we saw last year, if some funky excrement happens with covid (ie a team banning all of its wideouts) that could bring in a few unforseen wins.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 01, 2021, 05:40:12 PM
I think 7 wins is wildly optimistic. Either someone on tbe defense has to turn into an all-pro or Wilson has to be in the OROTY conversation.If Wilson isn't in the OROY conversation, something went wrong.
3 to 5 wins is more where I think we end up. With a high probability of a top 5 pick and virtually guaranteed top 10 pick.
Of course as we saw last year, if some funky excrement happens with covid (ie a team banning all of its wideouts) that could bring in a few unforseen wins.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 01, 2021, 05:47:57 PM
If Wilson isn't in the OROY conversation, something went wrong.
Are people expecting him to be?
Regardless of whether you think he's going to be a savior or bust, I have seen very little of that talk.
The Jets don't have a strong roster, rookie coach rookie OC, shitty defense. And I don't see us as having an offense designed to have him let loose and go wild.
I suppose Fields Lance both not being opening day starters helps anyone else get it. But I don't think anyone's expecting Wilson to get it
Post by: Laxin on September 01, 2021, 06:00:50 PM
Are people expecting him to be?
Regardless of whether you think he's going to be a savior or bust, I have seen very little of that talk.
The Jets don't have a strong roster, rookie coach rookie OC, shitty defense. And I don't see us as having an offense designed to have him let loose and go wild.
I suppose Fields Lance both not being opening day starters helps anyone else get it. But I don't think anyone's expecting Wilson to get it
It’s probably fair to say he’s in the conversation for someone who could get it. It’s pretty much always a QB. It’ll likely be between him, Mac Jones and Lawrence. He should be in the discussion by the end of the year if he has a decent year, regardless of win total.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 01, 2021, 06:04:36 PM
It’s probably fair to say he’s in the conversation for someone who could get it. It’s pretty much always a QB. It’ll likely be between him, Mac Jones and Lawrence. He should be in the discussion by the end of the year if he has a decent year, regardless of win total.
6 of the last 12 OROTY winners were QBs
So purely from a statistical standpoint going with your suggestion it's between him Jones and Lawrence that would put him at a 1 in 6 chance
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 01, 2021, 06:17:02 PM
6 of the last 12 OROTY winners were QBs
So purely from a statistical standpoint going with your suggestion it's between him Jones and Lawrence that would put him at a 1 in 6 chance
Wilson is currently the third betting favorite behind Lawrence and Jones.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 01, 2021, 07:30:02 PM
Wilson is currently the third betting favorite behind Lawrence and Jones.
FWIW this just popped up on my phone from nfl.com
1
Justin Fields
Justin Fields
Chicago Bears · QB · +700
(7 votes: Battista, Bhanpuri, Blair, Filice, Frelund, Pioli, Ross)
2. Zach Wilson (+700) | 5 votes: Carr, Hanzus, Jones-Drew, Rank, Smith
T-3. Najee Harris (+1000) | 4 votes: Brandt, Grant, Parr, Reuter
T-3. Trevor Lawrence (+350) | 4 votes: Cersosimo, Goodbread, Shook, Zierlein
T-5. Mac Jones (+450) | 3 votes: O'Hara, Schein, Thomas
T-5. Trey Lance (+700) | 3 votes: Patra, Rosenthal, Sessler
T-5. Kyle Pitts (+1100) | 3 votes: Bergman, Chadiha, Hall
Post by: Libero_2 on September 01, 2021, 07:39:26 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 01, 2021, 07:46:39 PM
Fields as the favorite is absurd. The guy isn’t starting the season. To believe that he will sit for a week, or two or three and then come in and light the world on fire and say that’s the likeliest scenario is absolutely and utterly insane
Don't highly athletic QBs who can make plays with their feat typically do better as rookies than anyone else when it comes to OROTY selections ?
Murray Dak Rg3 Newton Vince Young (and okay Dak isn't so much like the others)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 01, 2021, 10:08:51 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 01, 2021, 10:21:00 PM
Quote
Will Parkinson @Willpa11
The Jets are the youngest roster in the NFL going into the 2021 regular season. Going to be exciting but a rollercoaster for sure. #jets #nfl
Post by: dcm1602 on September 01, 2021, 10:23:22 PM
https://twitter.com/Willpa11/status/1433167281962500107?s=20
The margin between #1 and #23 is less than a year.
The real outliers are the 4 or 5 oldest teams
But I find it silly that this age thing gets brought up so often. When the experience is so much more important. I mean we see 21 year old rookies and we see 25 year old rookies.
I'd wager a team having xyz months/years of NFL experience is far more important than what year they were all born
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 01, 2021, 10:51:14 PM
Are people expecting him to be?He's the #2 overall pick. Why would he not be in the conversation to be the best rookie?
Regardless of whether you think he's going to be a savior or bust, I have seen very little of that talk.
The Jets don't have a strong roster, rookie coach rookie OC, shitty defense. And I don't see us as having an offense designed to have him let loose and go wild.
I suppose Fields Lance both not being opening day starters helps anyone else get it. But I don't think anyone's expecting Wilson to get it
The odds vary on him, but he, the other 5 QBs, and Najee Harris are essentially the favorites. And quite frankly, with Fields and Lance not starting Week 1, you would think Wilson would have a better chance off the bat than either, though Lance could put up good numbers on a good team if he starts.
I'm not saying he's going to win, or even that he's the favorite. But he should be in the mix if he is as good as we hope he can be.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 01, 2021, 10:52:20 PM
Don't highly athletic QBs who can make plays with their feat typically do better as rookies than anyone else when it comes to OROTY selections ?They put up better fantasy numbers, and I'm sure some voters take that into consideration, even if subconsciously.
Murray Dak Rg3 Newton Vince Young (and okay Dak isn't so much like the others)
Post by: Badger on September 02, 2021, 06:20:25 AM
They put up better fantasy numbers, and I'm sure some voters take that into consideration, even if subconsciously.Though it's too bad that it doesn't look like Friars is happening this year I'm glad my brain gets to reset from having to pay attention to that.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2021, 07:35:19 PM
He's been here long enough where the line is largely on him at this point. He brought in all five starters, and even Becton's injury replacement. Has to be better than what we saw today. Otherwise, Wilson will get hurt, which will not only set back this organization, but also expose the lack of a competitive backup quarterback.
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2021, 07:38:13 PM
Douglas was billed as an offensive line guy, and the OL looks as bad as ever. Can't overreact to one game, but that was certainly alarming, especially with the Patriots and Broncos on deck.I like how you said it's too early to overreact...but then you did anyway.
He's been here long enough where the line is largely on him at this point. He brought in all five starters, and even Becton's injury replacement. Has to be better than what we saw today. Otherwise, Wilson will get hurt, which will not only set back this organization, but also expose the lack of a competitive backup quarterback.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2021, 07:40:56 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2021, 07:50:01 PM
I like how you said it's too early to overreact...but then you did anyway.Not overreacting, but this is his offensive line at this point. I think it will get better since they haven't played together much, and AVT is a rookie.
I'm just saying that he owns the offensive line at this point. These are all his guys. Can't blame Gase or Maccagnan anymore.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2021, 07:55:49 PM
Not overreacting, but this is his offensive line at this point. I think it will get better since they haven't played together much, and AVT is a rookie.
I'm just saying that he owns the offensive line at this point. These are all his guys. Can't blame Gase or Maccagnan anymore.
I can blame the offensive coordinator for not chipping with the backs or using the tight ends to help on the edge.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2021, 07:56:58 PM
I can blame the offensive coordinator for not chipping with the backs or using the tight ends to help on the edge.Definitely helped some in the 2nd half.
I'm not a big fan of Perine, but Ty Johnson and Carter aren't really pass blockers, so Perine could be useful there.
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2021, 07:59:50 PM
Not overreacting, but this is his offensive line at this point. I think it will get better since they haven't played together much, and AVT is a rookie.
I'm just saying that he owns the offensive line at this point. These are all his guys. Can't blame Gase or Maccagnan anymore.
I dont think anybody was blaming Gase or Macc for today.
This team is still a WIP.
And like I said in another thread...as long as I see weekly improvement, I'm fine. We have the youngest roster in the league.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 12, 2021, 08:12:00 PM
Fant was a desperation guy when we had nobody, and the other guys were cheap bodies available.
AVT is too new to determine, but Becton has a ways to go.
If Becton pans out then JD gets the credit, if he doesn't, then I question his acumen
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 13, 2021, 06:05:11 PM
Having Becton is great. I'm really glad he drafted AVT. But the next most talented guy is then either Fant or Moses. And after that? It's a huge falloff.
I'll always die on this hill: you build a wall in front of your young QB and get skill players after that. Zach's gonna be seeing ghosts by Halloween.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 13, 2021, 07:00:44 PM
His big gamble was Becton- TBD, injured. AVT- TBD, McGovern- not so great. GVR- not so great. Fant- OK. Moses- important signing now. This OL isn't terrible, but it doesn't mean they can't play badly. We saw that yesterday. Let's see as the season goes on how much is lack of playing together, scheme adjustments and how much is plain suckage.
Post by: Badger on September 13, 2021, 08:34:04 PM
I don't fault Douglas with the OL. You can't just excrement out 5 pro bowl OL. What else did you expect him to do? Every team has some starting linemen that aren't great. It's how they play together and scheme.The only thing he could have done meaningfully different on the OL so far is keep Sam and use both 1sts this year on linemen (Sewell and the best gord available which still may have been AVT). How many of you would take that?
His big gamble was Becton- TBD, injured. AVT- TBD, McGovern- not so great. GVR- not so great. Fant- OK. Moses- important signing now. This OL isn't terrible, but it doesn't mean they can't play badly. We saw that yesterday. Let's see as the season goes on how much is lack of playing together, scheme adjustments and how much is plain suckage.
The FA market for top tier OL has been instantly barren the last 2 years. We didn't even have the chance to miss out on a Mawae/Kendall/Woody/Faneca type.
Post by: Johnny English on September 13, 2021, 08:45:15 PM
The only thing he could have done meaningfully different on the OL so far is keep Sam and use both 1sts this year on linemen (Sewell and the best gord available which still may have been AVT). How many of you would take that?
(https://c.tenor.com/8_QcKqvOKaMAAAAC/hand-up-raise-hand.gif)
Post by: Badger on September 13, 2021, 08:51:34 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 13, 2021, 09:14:54 PM
Wilson was a no-brainer once they decided they were done with Darnold. Drafting AVT is a better pick to me than Wilson. But they should not have stopped there. Everything to the right of LG needs to be replaced. And not with mullet-sporting, beer-guzzling, meme-worthy backups.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 13, 2021, 09:22:17 PM
I didn't hate the Darnold trade, but I didn't like it either. Time will tell, but I think this team would've been better served with the in-house vet, with an overhauled line, and all the additional pieces that would've come from a windfall of picks and FA money.
But with the spilled milk, Douglas should have done whatever he could to put a wall in front of Zach. The thread's question is how do you feel about him this week. Well, this week I think he hasn't done a good enough job yet.
Post by: Laxin on September 13, 2021, 11:26:11 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 14, 2021, 12:53:06 AM
I'm fully on board with "The atrocious OL is all on JD's shoulders" bandwagon.
Having Becton is great. I'm really glad he drafted AVT. But the next most talented guy is then either Fant or Moses. And after that? It's a huge falloff.
I'll always die on this hill: you build a wall in front of your young QB and get skill players after that. Zach's gonna be seeing ghosts by Halloween.
Just to be fair, would another GM have signed Moses?
Because without Moses this OL would be a catastrophe. And I'm not convinced most GMs would have made that move and kept fant. But it could end up being one of the most important moves of the offseason
Post by: mj2sexay on September 14, 2021, 07:50:14 AM
The only thing he could have done meaningfully different on the OL so far is keep Sam and use both 1sts this year on linemen (Sewell and the best gord available which still may have been AVT). How many of you would take that?
The FA market for top tier OL has been instantly barren the last 2 years. We didn't even have the chance to miss out on a Mawae/Kendall/Woody/Faneca type.
They could've given Conklin the overpay he wanted, but point taken. Especially in that really the major freak up is on the interior.
Post by: Badger on September 14, 2021, 08:10:41 AM
They could've given Conklin the overpay he wanted, but point taken. Especially in that really the major freak up is on the interior.Possibly. It just seemed like all the big names were already wrapped up by the time FA started and that they just weren't coming here anyway.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2021, 08:22:05 AM
Post by: Johnny English on September 14, 2021, 08:28:46 AM
From what I’ve heard Sewell has had a pretty bad camp/preseason as well.
Fifth ranked OT this weekend. Second highest ranked run blocker after Trent Williams. And was facing Nick Bosa.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2021, 09:57:33 AM
Fifth ranked OT this weekend. Second highest ranked run blocker after Trent Williams. And was facing Nick Bosa.
Ranked by PFF? If so who gives a excrement?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2021, 09:58:21 AM
I was in favor of keeping Darnold, trading down from 2, and spending every bit of draft capital revamping the entire offense from the line on out.
You live in a fantasy land
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
You live in a fantasy land
I mean, he’s posting on a football message board with the rest of us. Do you remember the optimism from Saturday?
Post by: MBGreen on September 14, 2021, 10:22:13 AM
I mean, he’s posting on a football message board with the rest of us. Do you remember the optimism from Saturday?
Dude, i'm still optimistic. Rome wasn't built in a day....and i saw what pieces of excrement like Idzik and Maccagnan did to this team. I trust Joe Douglas.
Most of the posters here predicted like 3-6 wins. This is what this season is going to be like unfortunately. We have a rookie HC and rookie QB.
As long as i see growth and improvement on a weekly basis, i'm happy and content.
Post by: Johnny English on September 14, 2021, 10:30:15 AM
Ranked by PFF? If so who gives a excrement?
I'm just saying that Sewell apparently played well against a premier pass rusher, so any concerns about him having a bad camp are fairly unfounded.
Post by: Johnny English on September 14, 2021, 10:31:16 AM
Dude, i'm still optimistic. Rome wasn't built in a day....and i saw what pieces of excrement like Idzik and Maccagnan did to this team. I trust Joe Douglas.
I agree, I feel the same way. But that doesn't mean that we can't also question whether some things could have been done differently and/or better.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 14, 2021, 10:48:40 AM
I agree, I feel the same way. But that doesn't mean that we can't also question whether some things could have been done differently and/or better.
EXACTLY THIS
Post by: MBGreen on September 14, 2021, 10:50:45 AM
I agree, I feel the same way. But that doesn't mean that we can't also question whether some things could have been done differently and/or better.
Of course some things could've been done differently or better....
It's literally going to take a few seasons. If Zach turns out to be the franchise QB we've been hoping for, then Douglas's job becomes easier over time.
the oline didn't look good in week 1, but lets give them some time to gel. Douglas addressed the oline in FA and in the draft this year. He's doing his job.
Post by: MBGreen on September 14, 2021, 10:51:20 AM
EXACTLY THIS
settle down.
Post by: Badger on September 14, 2021, 10:54:14 AM
settle down.freak you
Post by: MBGreen on September 14, 2021, 11:01:46 AM
freak you
don't make me put badger in the corner for a timeout
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 14, 2021, 11:23:07 AM
This is the common theme of the dialogue:
"OL looks like excrement"
"No it doesnt' freak YOU"
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2021, 11:24:05 AM
Do you remember the optimism from Saturday?
I was not optimistic. We have the youngest roster in the league and it's depleted. We should see fight and promise from these players, but we aren't going to beat a lot of teams yet.
We are still a bottom five team, even if Carl Lawson was playing.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 14, 2021, 11:25:15 AM
I was not optimistic. We have the youngest roster in the league and it's depleted. We should see fight and promise from these players, but we aren't going to beat a lot of teams yet.
We are still a bottom five team, even if Carl Lawson was playing.
Loser mentality
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2021, 11:25:17 AM
Some people on here acting like they're being personally attacked when anyone is critical of the team or doesn't share the same POV...it's getting tired.
THE JETS WERE THE WORST TEAM IN THE NFL IN 2020, BUT WHY AREN'T THEY IN THE PLAYOFFS AFTER WEEK 1?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2021, 11:26:11 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on September 14, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 14, 2021, 11:30:54 AM
THE JETS WERE THE WORST TEAM IN THE NFL IN 2020, BUT WHY AREN'T THEY IN THE PLAYOFFS AFTER WEEK 1?
Why is this team not on track to go 17-0 with a rookie QB and rookie HC? - LJF
Never said that. I predicted 5-12
Heaven forbid someone is disappointed that their new shiny QB is getting his face smashed into the ground on every play.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 14, 2021, 11:39:30 AM
Never said that. I predicted 5-12Check your PMs, seeing if you got my Venmo.
Heaven forbid someone is disappointed that their new shiny QB is getting his face smashed into the ground on every play.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2021, 11:44:56 AM
I was not optimistic. We have the youngest roster in the league and it's depleted. We should see fight and promise from these players, but we aren't going to beat a lot of teams yet.
We are still a bottom five team, even if Carl Lawson was playing.
This is roughly where I was at. I was happy so far with the CBs, the pass rush performed about as well as I expected, which is not good.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2021, 11:48:29 AM
Some people on here acting like they're being personally attacked when anyone is critical of the team or doesn't share the same POV...it's getting tired.
Every time you think that Joe Douglas could have done something better MB gets an ulcer and takes it out on his neighbor's dog.
Post by: MBGreen on September 14, 2021, 11:56:33 AM
Every time you think that Joe Douglas could have done something better MB gets an ulcer and takes it out on his neighbor's dog.Damn, we have a competent GM and I should feel bad about it. What was I thinking.
I cant believe I missed how this was all going to crumble after week 1.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2021, 12:16:49 PM
Damn, we have a competent GM and I should feel bad about it. What was I thinking.
I cant believe I missed how this was all going to crumble after week 1.
Just like pulling a string.
FTR, the Panthers game has changed absolutely zero about how good I think this team is/will be this season.
Post by: Johnny English on September 14, 2021, 12:22:26 PM
Just like pulling a string.
FTR, the Panthers game has changed absolutely zero about how good I think this team is/will be this season.
It has me. Before the season started I thought we were going to go 17-0, now I think we'll be 16-1.
Post by: MBGreen on September 14, 2021, 12:30:52 PM
Just like pulling a string.Here's the best part...im not wrong.
FTR, the Panthers game has changed absolutely zero about how good I think this team is/will be this season.
Post by: Badger on September 14, 2021, 12:43:11 PM
FTR, the Panthers game has changed absolutely zero about how good I think this team is/will be this season.
Same here. It's just that predicting 12+ losses is a lot easier than experiencing it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 14, 2021, 12:56:42 PM
The Lawson injury sapped most of my season optimism since I thought our path to having a decent defense was by Lawson breaking out and our pass rush being top 10.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 14, 2021, 01:08:01 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2021, 01:13:05 PM
If LaFleur can take the lessons for pass pro that he seemed to have learned by end of the Panthers game and apply them to the beginning then we might have a better shot in closer games.
I wish he'd just leave Wesco on the field as basically an extra tackle. Fant was getting his derriere kicked until he got some help.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 14, 2021, 01:13:20 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 14, 2021, 05:19:19 PM
Jets 317
Steelers 268
Lions 217
Post by: Libero_2 on September 14, 2021, 05:50:22 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 14, 2021, 06:26:29 PM
It will be even fairer to criticize him if more his draft picks don't start producing on the field. Becton struggled mightily since the start of training camp before getting hurt on Sunday and now he and Mann are both set to miss at least a month, so we can't expect to receive significant contributions from any of last year's draft picks (except for Hall and maybe Davis) until at least October. Mims is buried on the depth chart, Davis is constantly injured, Zuniga's on the practice squad, Perine's the RB4, Morgan's gone, and Clark's on IR.
This draft class appears more promising but that can change in a hurry if Wilson gets killed, AVT continues to play as poorly as he did on Sunday, and Moore remains invisible.
Post by: Johnny English on September 14, 2021, 06:31:13 PM
While I've been one of Joe's most ardent supporters, I feel that it's perfectly fair to criticize him at this point, mainly because if you're going to draft a QB #2 overall and virtually guarantee him the starting job without even a serviceable backup, you better be damn sure you have an offensive line capable of protecting him.
I really don't like not having a veteran backup. I know Johnson is on the PS, but he's not on the sidelines which is when Zach might benefit from an active vet being able to help him out with what he's seeing and what he's missing.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 14, 2021, 06:32:30 PM
I really don't like not having a veteran backup. I know Johnson is on the PS, but he's not on the sidelines which is when Zach might benefit from an active vet being able to help him out with what he's seeing and what he's missing.I think Wilson did just fine and he has the OC on the sideline with him. If Josh Johnson can somehow keep Wilson from getting wrecked on the field, I'm all for it.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 14, 2021, 06:36:51 PM
I really don't like not having a veteran backup. I know Johnson is on the PS, but he's not on the sidelines which is when Zach might benefit from an active vet being able to help him out with what he's seeing and what he's missing.
This is actually the part that I feel is a bit overrated. If LaFleur, Calabrese, and Cavanaugh aren't able to provide him that support, we're really up excrement's creek.
Post by: Johnny English on September 14, 2021, 06:37:31 PM
I think Wilson did just fine and he has the OC on the sideline with him. If Josh Johnson can somehow keep Wilson from getting wrecked on the field, I'm all for it.
I think there's more chance of Josh Johnson with his experience being able to spot something that will help Zach to set the right protections, than there is Mike White. And I think we're no more in the excrement with Johnson under center than with White.
Post by: Johnny English on September 14, 2021, 06:39:41 PM
This is actually the part that I feel is a bit overrated. If LaFleur, Calabrese, and Cavanaugh aren't able to provide him that support, we're really up excrement's creek.
I think that a QB is probably able to see things that coaches can't. Cavanaugh is the only one of those three to actually see the field in the NFL and that was a long time ago.
I'm not saying it's a game changer, just that we're looking for every edge we can find. Johnson has more chance of providing one than White, who is essentially a passenger until and unless he's called on to take a snap.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 14, 2021, 06:44:19 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 14, 2021, 06:47:16 PM
The main reason I'd like a serviceable, veteran backup is so that if Wilson is getting annihilated behind our overmatched offensive line, we'll actually feel comfortable replacing him with a backup experienced enough to know how to protect himself (by calling out blitzers, sliding protections, etc.) Right now, it feels like our alternatives are offering Mike White as a human sacrifice or running the ball every down...Punting on first down is criminally underrated.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 14, 2021, 07:55:01 PM
carolina was able to get pressure easily a lot of the time just by sending 3-5 guys which isn't even a theoretical numbers mismatch. people kept bringing up we couldn't deal with the stunts, which is true, but there were so many times where they just sent the minimal amount of pass rushers at zach and they were able to get there quite fvcking easily. fant was getting beat so easily all game, i'm sorry but becton was getting beat all game prior to that last drive and maybe he started to pull it together but he sucked before then, the IOL was horrible, AVT was bad, we kept using multiple players to block a single guy leaving a very visible defender in front of one of said blockers free to rush at zach, no trickery involved there whatsoever, and the doubled defender was still getting past both of our defenders............it was just fvcking bad. it boggles my mind that an NFL unit could go out there and look as unprepared and unfit to play as our unit was.
maybe it's just a week one thing with a young team but this better change fast or we're going to fvcking year 2 zach in his first few games. beyond the 6 sacks there were so many freaking times he got hurried and/or physically hit
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 14, 2021, 08:08:43 PM
While I've been one of Joe's most ardent supporters, I feel that it's perfectly fair to criticize him at this point, mainly because if you're going to draft a QB #2 overall and virtually guarantee him the starting job without even a serviceable backup, you better be damn sure you have an offensive line capable of protecting him.
It will be even fairer to criticize him if more his draft picks don't start producing on the field. Becton struggled mightily since the start of training camp before getting hurt on Sunday and now he and Mann are both set to miss at least a month, so we can't expect to receive significant contributions from any of last year's draft picks (except for Hall and maybe Davis) until at least October. Mims is buried on the depth chart, Davis is constantly injured, Zuniga's on the practice squad, Perine's the RB4, Morgan's gone, and Clark's on IR.
This draft class appears more promising but that can change in a hurry if Wilson gets killed, AVT continues to play as poorly as he did on Sunday, and Moore remains invisible.
Great post.
This thread is about Joe Douglas and each person's feelings about him this week. It's in the title.
I fully expect this team to be a top 5...draft pick. I came into this year with zero optimism. The only thing I care about is preventing Zach from becoming shellshocked by year 3.
That's on the guy who controls the roster.
Maccagnan was judged on what happened with the franchise QB he drafted. JD will get the same opportunity. I just don't think we're off to a good start.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 14, 2021, 08:14:45 PM
i re-watched some of the game and i still can't pin down one thing that could easily explain the reason why our OL was as bad as it was on sunday. we were demonstrably bad on all accounts
carolina was able to get pressure easily a lot of the time just by sending 3-5 guys which isn't even a theoretical numbers mismatch. people kept bringing up we couldn't deal with the stunts, which is true, but there were so many times where they just sent the minimal amount of pass rushers at zach and they were able to get there quite fvcking easily. fant was getting beat so easily all game, i'm sorry but becton was getting beat all game prior to that last drive and maybe he started to pull it together but he sucked before then, the IOL was horrible, AVT was bad, we kept using multiple players to block a single guy leaving a very visible defender in front of one of said blockers free to rush at zach, no trickery involved there whatsoever, and the doubled defender was still getting past both of our defenders............it was just fvcking bad. it boggles my mind that an NFL unit could go out there and look as unprepared and unfit to play as our unit was.
maybe it's just a week one thing with a young team but this better change fast or we're going to fvcking year 2 zach in his first few games. beyond the 6 sacks there were so many freaking times he got hurried and/or physically hit
This is pretty much exactly how I felt watching the game live and completely unable to decipher what was going on
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 14, 2021, 09:29:21 PM
This is pretty much exactly how I felt watching the game live and completely unable to decipher what was going on
I listened to Chris Simms' review of this game and he mentioned that it looked like Carolina knew everything we were trying to do on offense, including our slide protections, before we even snapped the ball. That immediately made me think of Morgan.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2021, 10:13:53 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 14, 2021, 10:23:49 PM
I listened to Chris Simms' review of this game and he mentioned that it looked like Carolina knew everything we were trying to do on offense, including our slide protections, before we even snapped the ball. That immediately made me think of Morgan.Good thing the opposing coach won't be able to figure out what we're doing offensively as we face Bill Belichick...
Post by: bojanglesman on September 19, 2021, 10:38:15 AM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1439614319004692483?s=19
Post by: Heismanberg on September 19, 2021, 10:40:04 AM
Ewwww.
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1439614319004692483?s=19
Not the GM’s fault that players are hurt
He was also drafting for a bad coaching staff
Post by: Heismanberg on September 19, 2021, 10:40:34 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 19, 2021, 10:41:55 AM
Costello’s fat derriere is trying so hard to fill the Manish voidIn b4 Costello tweets Manish's birthday
Post by: dcm1602 on September 19, 2021, 11:03:31 AM
These dudes just circle jerk themselves
Post by: dcm1602 on September 19, 2021, 11:03:59 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 19, 2021, 11:05:11 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 19, 2021, 11:37:24 AM
Let's be real though, that draft looks pretty bad on paper. Some bad luck with injuries, but it's looking like a two-man class with Ashtyn Davis the best chance of making it a three-man class.
Right now that draft class doesn’t look any better than some of Duff’s disaster years
Post by: dcm1602 on September 19, 2021, 11:45:33 AM
Let's be real though, that draft looks pretty bad on paper. Some bad luck with injuries, but it's looking like a two-man class with Ashtyn Davis the best chance of making it a three-man class.
Becton still has to establish himself.
I'm optimistic, but he's far from a sure thing. And he is the difference between it being an acceptable draft class and an utter disaster
Post by: Johnny English on September 19, 2021, 04:43:56 PM
Not the GM’s fault that players are hurtIt was Maccagnan's fault that we drafted Devin Smith, apparently.
He was also drafting for a bad coaching staff
Post by: Heismanberg on September 19, 2021, 05:04:11 PM
It was Maccagnan's fault that we drafted Devin Smith, apparently.
Correct
Post by: Libero_2 on September 19, 2021, 05:04:51 PM
It was Maccagnan's fault that we drafted Devin Smith, apparently.
I wasn't a fan of Devin Smith, but I do know many of us were excited about him after the draft. Injuries suck for sure.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 20, 2021, 10:01:58 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 20, 2021, 10:25:04 AM
This week? I'd like to fire him.
that's a little overreactive.
My one criticism of Joe Douglas is that he didn't put a veteran QB in the room with Zach. But Joe has done a good job so far on the whole.
Rookie QBs are going to make mistakes. Trevor Lawrence looks terrible too, you're just not hearing about it because he's in a market nobody gives a excrement about.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 20, 2021, 10:35:48 AM
that's a little overreactive.
My one criticism of Joe Douglas is that he didn't put a veteran QB in the room with Zach. But Joe has done a good job so far on the whole.
Rookie QBs are going to make mistakes. Trevor Lawrence looks terrible too, you're just not hearing about it because he's in a market nobody gives a excrement about.
He dumped Sam, who is finding success elsewhere.
The OL, while better yesterday, isn't good.
His best draft pick so far is on IR.
I don't care about Lawrence. He has nothing to do with this team. JD decided to hit reset on the QB. Whatever happens from that is either his glory, or his downfall.
So far, I haven't been in any way impressed with Douglas. The only thing he's gotten "right" is getting rid of Gase. He's welcome to prove me wrong. Guess we'll see in 2023.
Post by: ScotlandJet on September 20, 2021, 10:41:15 AM
He dumped Sam, who is finding success elsewhere.
The OL, while better yesterday, isn't good.
His best draft pick so far is on IR.
I don't care about Lawrence. He has nothing to do with this team. JD decided to hit reset on the QB. Whatever happens from that is either his glory, or his downfall.
So far, I haven't been in any way impressed with Douglas. The only thing he's gotten "right" is getting rid of Gase. He's welcome to prove me wrong. Guess we'll see in 2023.
I'm with this - not a lot to be inspired about so far. Sure it's a huge rebuild after the last few seasons but we never seem to be close to laying a foundation on any part of the team.
This is freaking depressing this early in the season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 20, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 10:46:49 AM
I wouldn't have minded Sam getting killed behind this OLine while Wilson learned what not to do.
We will use those draft picks on DTs to help Zach develop
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 10:47:39 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 20, 2021, 10:49:16 AM
He dumped Sam, who is finding success elsewhere.
The OL, while better yesterday, isn't good.
His best draft pick so far is on IR.
I don't care about Lawrence. He has nothing to do with this team. JD decided to hit reset on the QB. Whatever happens from that is either his glory, or his downfall.
So far, I haven't been in any way impressed with Douglas. The only thing he's gotten "right" is getting rid of Gase. He's welcome to prove me wrong. Guess we'll see in 2023.
You probably shouldn't watch football this season, Alio. Yes, i'm serious.
We'll ping you when the rebuild is over and we start winning games.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 10:51:48 AM
You probably shouldn't watch football this season
Post by: MBGreen on September 20, 2021, 10:56:32 AM
Me to myself when I have a sliver of optimism about the Jets improving from 1 year to the next:
I'm still optimistic, but that comes with being realistic as well.
A part of me was hoping the Jets would've come out flying right out of the gates in week 1. The other part of me knew that this is a new system, new coaching staff and a new QB. There was the potential to be freaking growing pains.
Just show me improvements every week, and i'll be happy. The oline and D improved from week 1. Saleh is doing (and learning) his job.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 20, 2021, 11:03:43 AM
We will use those draft picks on DTs to help Zach develop
Solid reasoning.
Post by: MBGreen on September 20, 2021, 11:06:03 AM
We will use those draft picks on DTs to help Zach develop
I'm still waiting for Quinnen to develop this season.
Post by: Laxin on September 20, 2021, 11:14:52 AM
Sam looked pretty good this week, but I don't think he played that well week 1. He just didn't play poorly enough to lose the game. He has vastly better players around him now and what looks to be a very good defense. I still think his ceiling is a top 10-12 QB who needs talent around him to succeed. Wilson has the higher ceiling, he just needs the supporting cast and the coaching staff to bring him along properly.
Post by: MBGreen on September 20, 2021, 11:26:19 AM
I haven't disagreed with many roster moves, FA signings, coaching hirings or draft picks so far. I think the process has been good up until this point, the results just haven't followed.
Sam looked pretty good this week, but I don't think he played that well week 1. He just didn't play poorly enough to lose the game. He has vastly better players around him now and what looks to be a very good defense. I still think his ceiling is a top 10-12 QB who needs talent around him to succeed. Wilson has the higher ceiling, he just needs the supporting cast and the coaching staff to bring him along properly.
the other glaring difference regarding Zach is that he didn't look shaken at all. He was just overly-aggressive. Saleh said in the post game presser Zach just has to dial it back a little, and not try to extend every play. He's absolutely right.
Sam looked like a deer in freaking headlights for the last 2 seasons here.
Big difference imo.
Post by: MBGreen on September 20, 2021, 11:49:29 AM
Quote
Drew
@DrewfromJersey
·
3h
This is how a rebuild works. New staff. New QB. New system usually = equals early season struggles. Previous years of being bad doesn't let you get a head start on that process. Minor victories lead to bigger ones. Thats how you build a winning program. #Jets
Post by: bojanglesman on September 20, 2021, 11:54:14 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 20, 2021, 12:13:59 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 20, 2021, 12:50:20 PM
I'm still waiting for Quinnen to develop this season.
Don't hold your breath.
Q is on the verge of BUST label
Post by: MBGreen on September 20, 2021, 01:03:38 PM
Don't hold your breath.
Q is on the verge of BUST label
I don't know if he's on the verge....but he certainly needs to step up his game.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 01:42:18 PM
Don't hold your breath.
Q is on the verge of BUST label
Are you kidding me? He was undeniably one of the best IDL in the game last season and now you're almost ready to declare him a bust two games into this season?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 01:45:51 PM
Quote
Blake @blakenyjets
Quinnen Williams in 2020 via PlayerProfiler:
Snap% - 63.7% (29th)
Solo Tackles: 31 (1st)
Sacks: 7 (7th)
FF: 2 (3rd)
TFL: 9 (1st)
Quote
Michael Nania @Michael_Nania
Quinnen Williams has 6 pressures on 45 pass-rush snaps this season
13.3% rate
Better than his 2020 rate (10.3%) and would have ranked 5th-best among IDL last year
He's doing well, the splashy moments will come in due time
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 20, 2021, 02:00:17 PM
freak, man.
WTF is player profiler?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 03:17:50 PM
WTF is player profiler?
Exactly what it sounds like
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 20, 2021, 03:40:54 PM
Exactly what it sounds like
A PFF clone but less reputable. Awesome
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 03:44:59 PM
A PFF clone but less reputable. Awesome
PFF had Quinnen as their 13th ranked IDL last season
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 03:45:22 PM
A PFF clone but less reputable. Awesome
It's literally just statistical rankings. Those cannot be argued.
PFF is incredible subjective, which is why it's useless.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 03:58:03 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2021, 04:12:35 PM
Maybe we just let it play out. He does need to contribute more, we all agree there.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 04:26:24 PM
If we get to midseason and he hasn't elevated his game, then we can talk.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2021, 04:39:15 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 04:43:43 PM
I do get some of the frustration with Quinnen. When you draft anyone in the top 3 of the NFL Draft, you're expecting a franchise cornerstone. That's a high bar for a defensive tackle to reach. But he showed enough last year and has the injury excuse this year, where I'm willing to be patient at the beginning of this year.
It's not like we really whiffed on anybody to take him. No elite skill players or offensive linemen.
Look at Clelin Ferrell in Las Vegas. 4th overall pick in the same draft class and he's been a healthy scratch through two weeks.
People want to point out Josh Allen, but he's been pretty bad (and injured) since a strong rookie year.
The prize of that draft class of Nick Bosa and we screwed that up.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:44:58 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:46:00 PM
The prize of that draft class was Nick Bosa and Cole Beasley screwed that up.
FTFY
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 20, 2021, 04:46:19 PM
My takeaway from this, is you don't draft a DT in the top 10
1 Myles Garrett
1 Jadeveon Clowney
2 Chase Young
2 Nick Bosa
3 Quinnen Williams
3 Marcell Dareus
3 Solomon Thomas
3 Joey Bosa
3 Dion Jordan
4 Clelin Ferrell
5 Bradley Chubb
5 Ezekiel Ansah
6 Leonard Williams
6 Barkevious Mingo
7 Derrick Brown
7 DeForest Buckner
7 Aldon Smith
9 Ed Oliver
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:48:37 PM
If Aaron Donald was taken in the top-10 (instead of just outside of it), would you be making the same argument?
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2021, 04:49:05 PM
It's not like we really whiffed on anybody to take him. No elite skill players or offensive linemen.Agreed. I was dying for a trade down, and Quinnen was evaluated highly enough where I hoped someone would bite. I was willing to accept less than the draft value chart. But it's hard to be critical when you're relying on another team to want to trade.
Look at Clelin Ferrell in Las Vegas. 4th overall pick in the same draft class and he's been a healthy scratch through two weeks.
People want to point out Josh Allen, but he's been pretty bad (and injured) since a strong rookie year.
The prize of that draft class of Nick Bosa and we screwed that up.
I still have faith Quinnen will be a star, and if that's the case, you can't complain.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:50:44 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 04:50:58 PM
My takeaway from this, is you don't draft a DT in the top 10
Why not?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 04:52:23 PM
If Aaron Donald was taken in the top-10 (instead of just outside of it), would you be making the same argument?
You don't get it, man. We needed to do one of two things:
1. Suck harder and land and elite pass rusher at pick #1 or #2
2. Suck less and draft a bust EDGE rusher like Barkevious Mingo
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 20, 2021, 07:05:26 PM
Why not?
Look at that list. The value is clearly at DE/EDGE over DT. There's a reason why only 4 DT have been drafted in the top 10 in the past decade.
Quinnen was a consensus top-2 player in his draft class. Some even had him over Bosa.
If Aaron Donald was taken in the top-10 (instead of just outside of it), would you be making the same argument?
There were people that liked Ryan Leaf over Manning, and we all know how that turned out.
Donald is the lone exception.
If you're content with his production as a 3rd overall pick, great. I'm not there.
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2021, 07:30:34 PM
Look at that list. The value is clearly at DE/EDGE over DT. There's a reason why only 4 DT have been drafted in the top 10 in the past decade.
There were people that liked Ryan Leaf over Manning, and we all know how that turned out.
Donald is the lone exception.
If you're content with his production as a 3rd overall pick, great. I'm not there.
To be fair, you're overlooking the DTs who could or should have been taken in the top ten in their respective drafts but weren't. I can make or see decent arguments for Vita Vea, Raekwon Davis, Chris Jones, Sheldon Rankins, Grady Jarret, Akiem Hicks and probably a bunch of others being better than some of the players that did go top ten.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 08:34:12 PM
Look at that list. The value is clearly at DE/EDGE over DT. There's a reason why only 4 DT have been drafted in the top 10 in the past decade.
Take out Garrett, Clowney, Young, and Bosa because we never had a shot at them.
You missed quite a few defensive tackles when you were bolding the names:
Quinnen Williams
Marcel Dareus
Solomon Thomas
Leonard Williams
Derrick Brown
DeForest Buckner
Ed Oliver
7 on that list after the premier edge players are defensive tackles/interior defensive linemen, so about half.
The value is definitely not there at edge either.
Keke Mingo
Dion Jordan
Both are massive busts.
Clelin Ferrell is well on his way to joining them on that list.
Aldon Smith is a turd.
Ziggy Ansah didn’t pay out.
Bradley Chubb can’t stay healthy.
Tell me more about how much value there is at edge and not at DT.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 08:35:42 PM
Fuckin’ Top 10 DTs suck
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 08:36:54 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 22, 2021, 07:52:05 AM
Take out Garrett, Clowney, Young, and Bosa because we never had a shot at them.
You missed quite a few defensive tackles when you were bolding the names:
Quinnen Williams
Marcel Dareus
Solomon Thomas
Leonard Williams
Derrick Brown
DeForest Buckner
Ed Oliver
7 on that list after the premier edge players are defensive tackles/interior defensive linemen, so about half.
The value is definitely not there at edge either.
Keke Mingo
Dion Jordan
Both are massive busts.
Clelin Ferrell is well on his way to joining them on that list.
Aldon Smith is a turd.
Ziggy Ansah didn’t pay out.
Bradley Chubb can’t stay healthy.
Tell me more about how much value there is at edge and not at DT.
I left out Williams, Thomas, and Buckner bc the site said they were drafted as DE.
And you simply can't remove certain players to help your narrative, doesn't work that way.
I don't care who was available or not, looking at that list if you're selected 3rd overall, then I'd expect similar performance from other players drafted at that same position. If you think Q is playing at the same level, good for you, I don't see it
Post by: Heismanberg on September 22, 2021, 08:10:41 AM
I left out Williams, Thomas, and Buckner bc the site said they were drafted as DE.
A PFF clone but less reputable. Awesome.
Quote
And you simply can't remove certain players to help your narrative, doesn't work that way.
It certainly does. The Jets did not have a shot at an elite pass rusher during the Quinnen Williams draft. We won a meaningless football game that season and took ourselves out of the running for Nick Bosa.
I'm not going to compare 1st and 2nd overall picks to a player that was selected after. It doesn't make sense.
Quote
I don't care who was available or not, looking at that list if you're selected 3rd overall, then I'd expect similar performance from other players drafted at that same position. If you think Q is playing at the same level, good for you, I don't see it
They don't play the same position.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 22, 2021, 12:17:07 PM
I'm not going to compare 1st and 2nd overall picks to a player that was selected after. It doesn't make sense.
They don't play the same position.
I am not comparing him to a DE/EDGE. I am comparing his impact as 3rd overall pick versus other players drafted at that same slot. If you've been thrilled with his productivity, great.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 22, 2021, 12:44:08 PM
I am comparing his impact as 3rd overall pick versus other players drafted at that same slot.
This is not what you're doing.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 22, 2021, 12:44:26 PM
What a bust.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 22, 2021, 01:11:05 PM
The dudes not Aaron Darnold, but long as he's not like all of other rejects let's be appreciative
Post by: bojanglesman on September 22, 2021, 04:54:07 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 22, 2021, 05:10:08 PM
https://twitter.com/TheJetPress/status/1440787898115125256?s=19
La'Mical Perine
Cam Clark
James Morgan
Let's not get too excited just yet for Douglas having another fourth round pick. (Very early indications for Carter are positive though.)
Post by: bojanglesman on September 22, 2021, 05:11:01 PM
La'Mical Perine4th time's a charm.
Cam Clark
James Morgan
Let's not get too excited just yet for Douglas having another fourth round pick. (Very early indications for Carter are positive though.)
Post by: dcm1602 on September 22, 2021, 05:19:13 PM
https://twitter.com/TheJetPress/status/1440787898115125256?s=19
I'd imagine he's still getting caught up on the playbook
Who knows if he will suck or not, but the snap count should certainly go up as he acclimates
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 22, 2021, 07:23:28 PM
This is not what you're doing.
Yep, it is.
Post by: insanity on September 22, 2021, 11:05:03 PM
Nice...
Post by: Johnny English on September 26, 2021, 06:11:40 PM
- A bottom 5 secondary
- A bottom 5 LB corps
- A bottom 5 OL
- A bottom 5 TE group
- A bottom 10 WR corps (maybe bottom 5?)
- A rookie HC
- A rookie OC
- A rookie QB
- A 9-26 record (2-19 if you remove the first season that he arrived too late to have any influence over)
So, uh, not feeling that good about him right now. If there's a master plan here I'd really like to see some evidence of it soon please.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2021, 06:13:06 PM
A bottom 5 secondary
A bottom 5 LB corps
What are you basing this on?
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2021, 06:13:41 PM
He is entering his third season. Under him we have:
- A bottom 5 secondary
- A bottom 5 LB corps
- A bottom 5 OL
- A bottom 5 TE group
- A bottom 10 WR corps (maybe bottom 5?)
- A rookie HC
- A rookie OC
- A rookie QB
- A 9-26 record (2-19 if you remove the first season that he arrived too late to have any influence over)
So, uh, not feeling that good about him right now. If there's a master plan here I'd really like to see some evidence of it soon please.
Yea, no bueno.
I know you can't fix everything at once but has he fixed anything?
Post by: Johnny English on September 26, 2021, 06:14:38 PM
What are you basing this on?
Name 5 other teams that would be starting Hamsah Nasrildeen, Jamien Sherwood, Brandin Echols, or Adrian Colbert.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2021, 06:16:12 PM
Name 5 other teams that would be starting Hamsah Nasrildeen, Jamien Sherwood, Brandin Echols, or Adrian Colbert.
Have they played poorly? Not really.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2021, 06:16:33 PM
We should've kept Darnold and moved him to linebacker.
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2021, 06:16:50 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2021, 06:16:53 PM
I know you can't fix everything at once but has he fixed anything?
He tore it down.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 26, 2021, 06:21:35 PM
He is entering his third season. Under him we have:
- A bottom 5 secondary
- A bottom 5 LB corps
- A bottom 5 OL
- A bottom 5 TE group
- A bottom 10 WR corps (maybe bottom 5?)
- A rookie HC
- A rookie OC
- A rookie QB
- A 9-26 record (2-19 if you remove the first season that he arrived too late to have any influence over)
So, uh, not feeling that good about him right now. If there's a master plan here I'd really like to see some evidence of it soon please.
I mean let's be fair.
If JD had kept Darnold and attempted to maximize value with that second pick, would you be in the crucify JD bandwagon?
Probably not. To me the QB decision was JDs crippling decision.
His moves haven't predominantly worked out, but he has the right philosophy, and I think overtime it could balance out.
But the QB decision 100% will be the difference between whether this franchise has success or was crippled by JD
Post by: Jumbo on September 26, 2021, 06:22:23 PM
I'm as disappointed as anyone but I think we need to see if we still look like complete garbage next year before talking firing. The LB and secondary look bad on paper but the defense has been playing well all things considered. The offense... I'll give another year.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 26, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
It's really not fair to call this Douglas' 3rd season considering what you can do as GM post-draft. It's effectively the 2nd season with the roster under his control.
I'm as disappointed as anyone but I think we need to see if we still look like complete garbage next year before talking firing. The LB and secondary look bad on paper but the defense has been playing well all things considered. The offense... I'll give another year.
I don’t think anyone is seriously talking about hot seat or firing but more that it’s been taboo to criticize Douglas over his tenure. Moreso recently, as I think everyone let the 1st year slide since he didn’t have a draft and came into a horrible situation.
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2021, 06:42:47 PM
I don’t think anyone is seriously talking about hot seat or firing but more that it’s been taboo to criticize Douglas over his tenure. Moreso recently, as I think everyone let the 1st year slide since he didn’t have a draft and came into a horrible situation.
The "my criticism of Douglas is being silenced!" thing has always been silly because nobody has suggested it should be a permanent state of affairs. It's just one side correctly saying we shouldn't prematurely (over)react and the other side acting like they've been unjustly censored.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 26, 2021, 06:44:05 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2021, 06:46:28 PM
He tore it down.
Every GM we've had has torn the roster down...
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 26, 2021, 06:48:02 PM
The "my criticism of Douglas is being silenced!" thing has always been silly because nobody has suggested it should be a permanent state of affairs. It's just one side correctly saying we shouldn't prematurely (over)react and the other side acting like they've been unjustly censored.
Was it an overreaction on Mike Maccagnan when people here said he was actively tanking this team years before he was fired?
It was met with the same reaction back then. Everyone else caught up eventually
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2021, 06:49:15 PM
Every GM we've had has torn the roster down...
I don’t remember it that way.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2021, 06:50:00 PM
I don’t remember it that way.
Do you remember them building it?
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2021, 07:02:42 PM
He is entering his third season. Under him we have:Secondary and LB corps have both played relatively well. Defense has been good enough to win 3 weeks in a row. Hard to do that with a bottom 5 at LB and secondary. Mosley and Maye are almost good enough on their own to make that not the case.
- A bottom 5 secondary
- A bottom 5 LB corps
- A bottom 5 OL
- A bottom 5 TE group
- A bottom 10 WR corps (maybe bottom 5?)
- A rookie HC
- A rookie OC
- A rookie QB
- A 9-26 record (2-19 if you remove the first season that he arrived too late to have any influence over)
So, uh, not feeling that good about him right now. If there's a master plan here I'd really like to see some evidence of it soon please.
I don't see why you would add "rookie HC, rookie OC, rookie QB" in there as a negative.
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2021, 07:03:24 PM
Was it an overreaction on Mike Maccagnan when people here said he was actively tanking this team years before he was fired?This is way too general to agree or disagree with. People aren't getting credit for being right about Joe Douglas for whining about Matt Kalil, for example. Just like people who didn't want Sanchez because he was a USC QB. With this franchise you don't get credit for being eventually correct in predicting failure unless you have an ironclad reasoning.
It was met with the same reaction back then. Everyone else caught up eventually
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2021, 07:07:37 PM
This is way too general to agree or disagree with. People aren't getting credit for being right about Joe Douglas for whining about Matt Kalil, for example. Just like people who didn't want Sanchez because he was a USC QB. With this franchise you don't get credit for being eventually correct in predicting failure unless you have an ironclad reasoning.This. If you wait long enough, pretty much everyone will fail in the NFL outside of a select few. Rex was a very good coach for us at first, then he sucked. Tannenbaum did a good job until he sucked. Some guys suck right away.
Post by: Laxin on September 26, 2021, 07:08:47 PM
Secondary and LB corps have both played relatively well. Defense has been good enough to win 3 weeks in a row. Hard to do that with a bottom 5 at LB and secondary. Mosley and Maye are almost good enough on their own to make that not the case.
I don't see why you would add "rookie HC, rookie OC, rookie QB" in there as a negative.
Granted, every team has to deal with injuries, but Lawson, Davis and Joyner injuries really hurt this defense.
Also, lets not kid ourselves- we all thought this secondary was going to be hot trash, but these young guys have played really well so far. I think JD and Saleh deserve credit there, not ridicule.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2021, 07:11:01 PM
Granted, every team has to deal with injuries, but Lawson, Davis and Joyner injuries really hurt this defense.I think the defense has been pretty average so far, which is an improvement, despite dealing with a ton of injuries and a ton of youth (and not highly-drafted youth).
Also, lets not kid ourselves- we all thought this secondary was going to be hot trash, but these young guys have played really well so far. I think JD and Saleh deserve credit there, not ridicule.
The offense couldn't be much worse. I'm not sure why anyone would complain about the defense right now.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 26, 2021, 07:13:42 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2021, 07:19:07 PM
Some GMs tore it down unintentionally.
Immaterial.
Post by: Johnny English on September 26, 2021, 07:24:46 PM
This is way too general to agree or disagree with. People aren't getting credit for being right about Joe Douglas for whining about Matt Kalil, for example. Just like people who didn't want Sanchez because he was a USC QB. With this franchise you don't get credit for being eventually correct in predicting failure unless you have an ironclad reasoning.
I'm waiting for him to do something good. The thing he primarily gets his balls washed for is trading one of the best safeties in the league because he sack too much, and replacing him with a maybe promise of something good in the future perhaps if we're lucky and don't freak them up as well.
If as has been repeatedly ordered we're to disregard the first season he was here, we're 2-17 and not looking like we're getting better any time soon. We were better the year we're told to not count. This is not a franchise that looks like it's building towards being something good, it looks like we're continuing to do things wrong and no amount of "but isn't the head coach really good at marketing slogans" is glossing over that.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2021, 07:31:33 PM
I'm waiting for him to do something good. The thing he primarily gets his balls washed for is trading one of the best safeties in the league because he sack too much, and replacing him with a maybe promise of something good in the future perhaps if we're lucky and don't freak them up as well.I don't think we were that much better that year, we just had an easier schedule. Plus, in 2019, we went on an offseason spending spree to bolster the roster. That worked a little bit for one year and then completely fell apart.
If as has been repeatedly ordered we're to disregard the first season he was here, we're 2-17 and not looking like we're getting better any time soon. We were better the year we're told to not count. This is not a franchise that looks like it's building towards being something good, it looks like we're continuing to do things wrong and no amount of "but isn't the head coach really good at marketing slogans" is glossing over that.
Hard to defend anything with the Jets after the last two performances. At least last week, you could say "they played well outside of Zach." This week, nothing worked on offense.
He hasn't burdened us with any bad contracts, He's brought in a number of talented young players. The early returns on this year's draft are extremely positive. And the Jamal Adams trade was an awesome value of a trade.
Not to mention, we have a ton of high draft picks next season where we can continue to build a young core. Those are assets JD has acquired that he hasn't been able to use yet.
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2021, 07:33:56 PM
I'm waiting for him to do something good. The thing he primarily gets his balls washed for is trading one of the best safeties in the league because he sack too much, and replacing him with a maybe promise of something good in the future perhaps if we're lucky and don't freak them up as well.Seems like you're just eager to give up on him, get a new savior GM, and do it all over again.
If as has been repeatedly ordered we're to disregard the first season he was here, we're 2-17 and not looking like we're getting better any time soon. We were better the year we're told to not count. This is not a franchise that looks like it's building towards being something good, it looks like we're continuing to do things wrong and no amount of "but isn't the head coach really good at marketing slogans" is glossing over that.
Post by: ons on September 26, 2021, 07:44:53 PM
I also think the talent at the WR position is solid. Not spectacular, but a relatively deep unit with enough talent that players should be getting open relatively regularly.
Offensive line is brutal, partly because it's hard to build a good oline in todays NFL. Where Douglas really should be criticized is knowing the kinds of players they had at O-line and not prioritizing backs and tight ends who were strong blockers, the combination of the shitty line, the shitty blitz pickup from RBs and the shitty blocking from the tight ends is a complete disaster.
Post by: Johnny English on September 26, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
I don't think we were that much better that year, we just had an easier schedule. Plus, in 2019, we went on an offseason spending spree to bolster the roster. That worked a little bit for one year and then completely fell apart.
Hard to defend anything with the Jets after the last two performances. At least last week, you could say "they played well outside of Zach." This week, nothing worked on offense.
He hasn't burdened us with any bad contracts, He's brought in a number of talented young players. The early returns on this year's draft are extremely positive. And the Jamal Adams trade was an awesome value of a trade.
Not to mention, we have a ton of high draft picks next season where we can continue to build a young core. Those are assets JD has acquired that he hasn't been able to use yet.
Yes, I'm hugely excited for more draft picks to be spent on exciting talents like Denzel Mims. Hey, maybe we can trade Jamison Crowder for a draft pick that we can use on a receiver who if we're lucky might be as good as Jamison Crowder!
You're pretty much making my point, which is that for all the moves we've made we aren't actually any better than we were when he started, and arguably worse.
Post by: Johnny English on September 26, 2021, 07:47:18 PM
Seems like you're just eager to give up on him, get a new savior GM, and do it all over again.
Not one bit. I just want the whole "Joe Douglas is building this thing which is going to be awesome" narrative to actually start getting justified, because literally nothing that he has done thus far has made us better on the field so far. I'm sure it's all awesome if you're one of those weirdos who gets more excited in April than October.
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2021, 07:54:53 PM
Seems like you're just eager to give up on him, get a new savior GM, and do it all over again.
Not one bit.
Then I look forward to you never using that argument re:Sam again.
Post by: Johnny English on September 26, 2021, 07:56:11 PM
Then I look forward to you never using that argument re:Sam again.
I look forward to you not making that point again because racehorse eggs are blue.
Make more sense.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2021, 07:57:35 PM
Yes, I'm hugely excited for more draft picks to be spent on exciting talents like Denzel Mims. Hey, maybe we can trade Jamison Crowder for a draft pick that we can use on a receiver who if we're lucky might be as good as Jamison Crowder!I mean, if this continues, you're right, but I can't imagine we're this bad for 17 games. On paper, this team is more talented offensively than we've had since Marshall and Decker left.
You're pretty much making my point, which is that for all the moves we've made we aren't actually any better than we were when he started, and arguably worse.
This is the depth chart he inherited. Most of these guys are out of the NFL or backups now.
https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/archive/221/NYJ
Brandon Shell, Robby Anderson, Jamison Crowder and Sam Darnold are the only relevant offensive players in the NFL. Leonard, Quinnen, Fatukasi, Mosley, Adams and Maye on defense. This is 2 years ago. This team was a dumpster fire when he got here, propped up by a couple veterans to give us some wins.
The biggest knocks on Douglas to me:
- 2020 draft looks bad
- Letting Robby walk for nothing and not getting a viable replacement
Most of the other moves I've supported, and even in retrospect, I still support.
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2021, 09:21:31 PM
I look forward to you not making that point again because racehorse eggs are blue.I'll just wait until you use it again in the next 24 hrs.
Make more sense.
Post by: delavan on September 26, 2021, 10:04:31 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/TheNewYorker21Feb1925.jpg/176px-TheNewYorker21Feb1925.jpg)
back on-topic: JD's draft staff in play (NC RB nice pick...otoh florida repeat year dog picks [Polite/Zuniga] etc.....year 3: OL worse than ever)
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2021, 11:11:18 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2021, 11:14:04 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 11:24:37 AM
back on-topic: JD's draft staff in play (NC RB nice pick...otoh florida repeat year dog picks [Polite/Zuniga] etc.....year 3: OL worse than ever)
Joe Douglas did not draft Jachai Polite
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2021, 03:04:42 PM
Then he dumped the starting QB at what is currently looking like poor value. Then he drafted a new shiny one and did little to protect him, drafting one guard then lucking into Moses. Other than one in the concussion protocol and Braxton "fair catch" Berrios, none of his drafted or signed receivers are showing anything on the field.
Hooray, we have a defense capable of keeping us in games for the first half. Pretty much exactly as we've had this entire century. The defense continues to show up on Sundays and play till they're exhausted while the offense struggles to get even a below-average passing offense going--in a league that's been entirely redesigned to favor passing offenses.
Post by: MBGreen on September 27, 2021, 03:11:37 PM
We've got a different type of situation, because we've drastically changed schemes on both sides of the ball going from Gase to Saleh.
Inside zone to outside zone
3-4 to 4-3
A lot of the players that Douglas was picking were for a completely different style of football. He isn't just going off of his big board, picking who he thinks is best without consulting his coaching staffs.
Changing regimes was 100% necessary but it slows down the rebuild quite a bit. Saleh putting so many young guys on the field defensively will hopefully speed it up on one side of the football.
We've also lost our two best players on both sides already: Becton and Lawson
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2021, 03:34:30 PM
I'm posting this in here for Alio to read.
I read it.
Losing Becton hurts, but it's balanced by Douglas having lucked into Moses.
The middle of the offensive line sucks. I don't give two dry fucks if there isn't a single talented player on defense, I want offense. If we lost games 68-35, at least I could enjoy the TD drives.
Draft offensive linemen. Then draft more. Then draft a few extras. Then get a new QB.
Or watch your newest one get obliterated every single week till he's shellshocked and you're drafting another one all over again.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2021, 03:38:02 PM
I read it.I stopped reading at "he lucked into Moses."
Losing Becton hurts, but it's balanced by Douglas having lucked into Moses.
The middle of the offensive line sucks. I don't give two dry fucks if there isn't a single talented player on defense, I want offense. If we lost games 68-35, at least I could enjoy the TD drives.
Draft offensive linemen. Then draft more. Then draft a few extras. Then get a new QB.
Or watch your newest one get obliterated every single week till he's shellshocked and you're drafting another one all over again.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 03:40:29 PM
Post by: Badger on September 27, 2021, 04:05:59 PM
I don’t think I can do this anymore guys(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210927/be382bdf3e5ba38a86fed2b7229bfc36.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 04:09:26 PM
Post by: delavan on September 27, 2021, 07:33:52 PM
Joe Douglas did not draft Jachai Polite
You're right, my bad.
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2021, 07:35:59 PM
You're right, my bad.
No. Not your bad. Mike Maccagnan's bad.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 30, 2021, 10:19:31 PM
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1443776586713640964?s=20
Post by: dcm1602 on September 30, 2021, 10:21:28 PM
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1443775586720264195?s=20
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1443776586713640964?s=20
He left out Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson's stats
Post by: Heismanberg on September 30, 2021, 10:33:04 PM
He left out Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson's stats
Shut up, bitch
Post by: MexJetinBcn on September 30, 2021, 10:39:08 PM
He left out Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson's stats
What does that have to do with anything??
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 07:05:01 AM
What does that have to do with anything??
You can't talk about how "great" trader Joe is without addressing the biggest asterisk on his resume.
I'm not saying Wilson is a bust and Darnold is magic man. But the optics currently don't look great, and the importance of these two events holds more significance than the trades of lesser players
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 07:12:36 AM
You can't talk about how "great" trader Joe is without addressing the biggest asterisk on his resume.
I'm not saying Wilson is a bust and Darnold is magic man. But the optics currently don't look great, and the importance of these two events holds more significance than the trades of lesser players
lol
it's week 4, dumbass. Maybe table this stupid narrative until Wilson's 3rd season.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 07:48:01 AM
lol
it's week 4, dumbass. Maybe table this stupid narrative until Wilson's 3rd season.
The sample size isn't there, I acknowledge that. Thoguh it's impossible to be optimistic at this point.
It'll be more like what's Wilson look like in week 16 17, and 18. But I'm tired of hearing the same script over and over again. About how fantastic a QB's practices look, their amazing leadership, how great their camps they ran are.
This is a historically bad offense. Until that changes, that's how it should be addressed
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 07:52:09 AM
The sample size isn't there, I acknowledge that. Thoguh it's impossible to be optimistic at this point.
It'll be more like what's Wilson look like in week 16 17, and 18. But I'm tired of hearing the same script over and over again. About how fantastic a QB's practices look, their amazing leadership, how great their camps they ran are.
This is a historically bad offense. Until that changes, that's how it should be addressed
why is it impossible to be optimistic? This is typical of most rookie QBs. Peyton Manning chucked 28 INTs in his rookie year and was hot garbage.
Wilson is learning every week.
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2021, 07:59:05 AM
why is it impossible to be optimistic? This is typical of most rookie QBs. Peyton Manning chucked 28 INTs in his rookie year and was hot garbage.No he wasn't. Peyton threw a lot of picks but he was still freaking awesome his rookie year. He set a bunch of records.
Wilson is learning every week.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 07:59:12 AM
why is it impossible to be optimistic? This is typical of most rookie QBs. Peyton Manning chucked 28 INTs in his rookie year and was hot garbage.
Wilson is learning every week.
That Peyton Manning thing is the most freaking retarded thing ever. I want to stab someone in the eye everytime they bring it up.
One Peyton Manning was a rookie in 1998, completely freaking different league.
Two Peyton Manning had almost 4000 passing yards, he was freaking 3rd in the NFL for most passing yards. And his td:int ratio was almost 1:1
Three Peyton had close to double the passing yards of numerous freaking QB's.
People talk about how Peyton had some abysmal rookie year. No, he didn't. He had a ton of INTs sure. But as a rookie he wasn't too far off from having the same stats as Brett Favre (nfl passing leader) and Dan freaking Marino.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 08:01:40 AM
That Peyton Manning thing is the most freaking retarded thing ever. I want to stab someone in the eye everytime they bring it up.
One Peyton Manning was a rookie in 1998, completely freaking different league.
Two Peyton Manning had almost 4000 passing yards, he was freaking 3rd in the NFL for most passing yards. And his td:int ratio was almost 1:1
Three Peyton had close to double the passing yards of numerous freaking QB's.
People talk about how Peyton had some abysmal rookie year. No, he didn't. He had a ton of INTs sure. But as a rookie he wasn't too far off from having the same stats as Brett Favre (nfl passing leader) and Dan freaking Marino.
the colts were 3-13 in his rookie year......i'm sure you were there in week 4 questioning Manning's place in the world in 1998 as well. *eye roll*
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 08:03:27 AM
No he wasn't. Peyton threw a lot of picks but he was still freaking awesome his rookie year. He set a bunch of records.
nobody is awesome when your team finishes 3-13.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 08:04:22 AM
I 10000% acknowledge its only been 3 games, with poor match-ups. So there's a ton of time for anything to happen.
But I'm not going to sit here with some ridiculously delusional optimism
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 08:05:32 AM
And I don't expect a rookie QB to come out and look like Peyton as a rookie.
I 10000% acknowledge its only been 3 games, with poor match-ups. So there's a ton of time for anything to happen.
But I'm not going to sit here with some ridiculously delusional optimism
I love the way you contradict yourself in the majority of your posts.....it's truly an art form.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 08:06:25 AM
the colts were 3-13 in his rookie year......i'm sure you were there in week 4 questioning Manning's place in the world in 1998 as well. *eye roll*
Nobody was discussing how good the Colts were. It was about how good Peyton Manning was.
And in 1998 it was still a run dominated league. Again Peyton literally had double the passing yards of several starting QBs
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 08:07:07 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 08:09:36 AM
I love the way you contradict yourself in the majority of your posts.....it's truly an art form.
My point was about trader Joe not shitting golden eggs with every move he makes.
I like his philosophy of building from the OL, and he made some good trades. But if the most important move he made doesn't pan out, it's a huge net negative for this team.
And as of right now there can't be a single person alive who is like wow Joe Douglas freaking nailed it when it came to handling his QB situation
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 08:12:24 AM
"guys, i totally acknowledge it's early in the season....but our rookie QB stinks, isn't a leader, and doesn't practice well."
Oh I'm sorry let me try this argument.
Hey dude it's okay that Zach Wilson is leading one of the worst offenses in the history of the nfl.
Just look at Peyton Manning. He was electric as a rookie, top 3 in passing yards, and was only second in voting for OROTY.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 08:12:31 AM
But if the most important move he made doesn't pan out, it's a huge net negative for this team.
And as of right now there can't be a single person alive who is like wow Joe Douglas freaking nailed it when it came to handling his QB situation
again it's week 4 of year 1. Sit the freak down until year 3.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 08:13:23 AM
Oh I'm sorry let me try this argument.
Hey dude it's okay that Zach Wilson is leading one of the worst offenses in the history of the nfl.
Just look at Peyton Manning. He was electric as a rookie, top 3 in passing yards, and was only second in voting for OROTY.
"hey guys, our rookie QB hasn't morphed into Patrick Mahomes by week 4....fire Douglas"
Post by: Miamipuck on October 01, 2021, 08:48:17 AM
My point was about trader Joe not shitting golden eggs with every move he makes.
That is the narrative around here and you're 100% correct to say it. He's been mediocre at best so far and that's putting it mildly.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 08:56:27 AM
1. Michael Carter
2. Michael Carter II
3. The rest of our young CBs
4. Managing to get higher than market value return on numerous trades
What Douglas deserves criticism for:
1. The Offensive line
2. Robby Anderson
3. The TEs
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 09:05:07 AM
What Douglas deserves credit for:
1. Michael Carter
2. Michael Carter II
3. The rest of our young CBs
4. Managing to get higher than market value return on numerous trades
What Douglas deserves criticism for:1. The Offensive line
1. Not signing a vet backup QB
2. Robby Anderson
3. The TEs
FYP
The oline is a WIP, and it also doesn't help that LaFleur doesn't know what he's doing with the players Douglas has given him.
Post by: Badger on October 01, 2021, 09:17:41 AM
But I'm tired of hearing the same script over and over again. About how fantastic a QB's practices look, their amazing leadership, how great their camps they ran are.
Not singling you out for this because it's a common enough reaction, but why does this matter? Do we not know better than to take these things as gospel? Don't get me wrong, I prefer to hear nice things about our players from the coaches but I know it doesn't guarantee anything on Sundays.
But going back to at least Rex, the fans tend to overreact negatively when the result is worse than the midweek speech. The coach could read Green Eggs & Ham at every press conference and it wouldn't matter.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 09:44:16 AM
FYP
The oline is a WIP, and it also doesn't help that LaFleur doesn't know what he's doing with the players Douglas has given him.
This is a excrement excuse. He definitely deserves criticism for the OLine. None of the work has actually led to a better offensive line from year 1 to year 3. I loved the Becton and AVT picks but one isn't on the field and the other is struggling to outperform GVR. The end result of all of this is the #2 overall pick and the 2nd QB we've taken in 3 years having to run for his life on every play and getting absolutely destroyed.
freak his work in progress. The DLine can be a work in progress in year 3. The WR corps can be a work in progress in year 3. The secondary can be a work in progress in year 3. The unit protecting the player who is supposed to be the future of the franchise looking exactly as bad, if not worse, than the previous years is absolutely worthy of criticism here.
I don't know what else he could have done but I don't have to know the specific answers. We have a shitload of draft picks stockpiled right now, is it completely inconceivable that a couple of those couldn't be used to find a player better than Greg Van Roten or the Mullet Meme who can't beat him out for a starting job to help keep Wilson alive?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 01, 2021, 09:50:56 AM
This is a excrement excuse. He definitely deserves criticism for the OLine. None of the work has actually led to a better offensive line from year 1 to year 3. I loved the Becton and AVT picks but one isn't on the field and the other is struggling to outperform GVR. The end result of all of this is the #2 overall pick and the 2nd QB we've taken in 3 years having to run for his life on every play and getting absolutely destroyed.
freak his work in progress. The DLine can be a work in progress in year 3. The WR corps can be a work in progress in year 3. The secondary can be a work in progress in year 3. The unit protecting the player who is supposed to be the future of the franchise looking exactly as bad, if not worse, than the previous years is absolutely worthy of criticism here.
I don't know what else he could have done but I don't have to know the specific answers. We have a shitload of draft picks stockpiled right now, is it completely inconceivable that a couple of those couldn't be used to find a player better than Greg Van Roten or the Mullet Meme who can't beat him out for a starting job to help keep Wilson alive?
I agree with this sentiment.
JD has tried to fix the OL...no doubt about it there. But his efforts have yielded subpar results.
This cannot be disputed.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 09:52:15 AM
This is a excrement excuse. He definitely deserves criticism for the OLine. None of the work has actually led to a better offensive line from year 1 to year 3. I loved the Becton and AVT picks but one isn't on the field and the other is struggling to outperform GVR. The end result of all of this is the #2 overall pick and the 2nd QB we've taken in 3 years having to run for his life on every play and getting absolutely destroyed.
freak his work in progress. The DLine can be a work in progress in year 3. The WR corps can be a work in progress in year 3. The secondary can be a work in progress in year 3. The unit protecting the player who is supposed to be the future of the franchise looking exactly as bad, if not worse, than the previous years is absolutely worthy of criticism here.
I don't know what else he could have done but I don't have to know the specific answers. We have a shitload of draft picks stockpiled right now, is it completely inconceivable that a couple of those couldn't be used to find a player better than Greg Van Roten or the Mullet Meme who can't beat him out for a starting job to help keep Wilson alive?
It's not a excrement excuse, it's a WIP whether you like it or not. Becton is hurt, and AVT is a rookie who missed most of camp.
I get that you're frustrated but i'll keep telling you this until sinks in....this wasn't going to be a quick turnaround. It's going to take a few seasons.
I told you guys the longer we employed chumps like Todd Bowles and Adam Gase, the longer this was going to take to fix. Blame Douglas all you want...but it's not his fault (yet), let him do his job. If we're not any further ahead by year 4, i'll support firing him.
EDIT: And the biggest reason you're not seeing results right away isn't Douglas...it's that our entire coaching regime and QB are rookies.
Post by: insanity on October 01, 2021, 10:14:35 AM
FYPI think you need to add his process to the list of pros. He is doing everything the right way in terms of asset collection, cap management, and prioritizing positions.
The oline is a WIP, and it also doesn't help that LaFleur doesn't know what he's doing with the players Douglas has given him.
He also doesn't seem like a guy with a big ego. I can definitely see him being aware that certain scouts aren't getting it done and having him bring new guys in if necessary
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 10:18:33 AM
What Douglas deserves credit for:
1. Michael Carter
2. Michael Carter II
3. The rest of our young CBs
4. Managing to get higher than market value return on numerous trades
He also signed Bryce Huff and Javelin Guidry as UDFAs and claimed John Franklin-Myers on waivers
the Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, and Chris Herndon trades are very good moves
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 10:21:46 AM
the Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, and Chris Herndon trades are very good moves
And the Darnold trade.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 10:22:18 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 10:22:51 AM
And the Darnold trade.
correct
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 10:44:49 AM
If Zach Wilson stops playing like Peyton Manning as a rookie then the Darnold trade is fantastic.
If we have to hear the same ole excuses for the next 4 years then it's franchise dooming.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 10:48:43 AM
The Darnold trade isn't good, until Zach Wilson is.
If Zach Wilson stops playing like Peyton Manning as a rookie then the Darnold trade is fantastic.
If we have to hear the same ole excuses for the next 4 years then it's franchise dooming.
Darnold was complete dogshit when that trade was made....and he was never playing here. So yes, it was pretty amazing Douglas got a 2nd and 4th for him given the circumstances.
You're not very good at analyzing situations eh? I'm finding this to be a trend with you.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 10:52:19 AM
The Darnold trade isn't good, until Zach Wilson is.
Sam Darnold was not the quarterback of the future here, so it was a good trade.
It's not like we traded Darnold for Wilson. We got additional draft picks to hopefully build around Wilson.
Post by: insanity on October 01, 2021, 10:54:43 AM
The Darnold trade isn't good, until Zach Wilson is.Omg. Can you stop with this?! The success or failure of zach or sam has nothing to do with w whether the decision was a good one or a bad one?
If Zach Wilson stops playing like Peyton Manning as a rookie then the Darnold trade is fantastic.
If we have to hear the same ole excuses for the next 4 years then it's franchise dooming.
The outcome of decisions don't always determine whether the decision was a good choice. In most multivariate decisions the thought process is more important.
Most outcomes aren't caused by your decisions. I.e.
Sam's success in Carolina doesn't mean he would have success here. Zach's success in ny with better weapons doesn't mean sam would have been successful with the new additions
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 10:58:13 AM
Sam Darnold was not the quarterback of the future here, so it was a good trade.
It's not like we traded Darnold for Wilson. We got additional draft picks to hopefully build around Wilson.
We didn't trade Darnold for Wilson. But we drafted Wilson because we traded Darnold.
Had we kept Darnold we either would have drafted an elite prospect at #2 (presumably a wideout or tackle) or potentially traded the pick for even more value.
Our OL and wideout group aren't good. And we had the opportunity to get an elite prospect at one of them.
If Wilson is the guy it's all worth it, and I'm 100000000% wrong.
But Wilson hasn't shown that yet. I hope he does, but it's impossible to be optimistic seeing what we're seeing. And having the last two anointed knee being disappointments
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 11:01:42 AM
Omg. Can you stop with this?! The success or failure of zach or sam has nothing to do with w whether the decision was a good one or a bad one?
The outcome of decisions don't always determine whether the decision was a good choice. In most multivariate decisions the thought process is more important.
Most outcomes aren't caused by your decisions. I.e.
Sam's success in Carolina doesn't mean he would have success here. Zach's success in ny with better weapons doesn't mean sam would have been successful with the new additions
It absolutely does.
More so from the perspective that our biggest needs had elite prospects available when we picked.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 11:02:36 AM
We didn't trade Darnold for Wilson. But we drafted Wilson because we traded Darnold.
Had we kept Darnold we either would have drafted an elite prospect at #2 (presumably a wideout or tackle) or potentially traded the pick for even more value.
Our OL and wideout group aren't good. And we had the opportunity to get an elite prospect at one of them.
If Wilson is the guy it's all worth it, and I'm 100000000% wrong.
But Wilson hasn't shown that yet. I hope he does, but it's impossible to be optimistic seeing what we're seeing. And having the last two anointed knee being disappointments
I'm done....you're not even listening.
Had we done this...or we should've done that. Jesus christ. Your entire argument is one massive butterfly effect. IF ONLY BELICHICK DIDN'T freak OVER LEON HESS.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 11:07:35 AM
I'm done....you're not even listening.
Had we done this...or we should've done that. Jesus christ. Your entire argument is one massive butterfly effect. IF ONLY BELICHICK DIDN'T freak OVER LEON HESS.
I'm not going all crazy with conspiracy theory bullshit.
It was we had the opportunity to pick from numerous highly successful players + keep Darnold . And instead we chose Zach.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 11:31:27 AM
It was we had the opportunity to pick from numerous highly successful players
lmao
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
the Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, and Chris Herndon trades are very good moves
See: #4.
Post by: Laxin on October 01, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
I'm not going all crazy with conspiracy theory bullshit.
It was we had the opportunity to pick from numerous highly successful players + keep Darnold . And instead we chose Zach.
Sam was so bad here that this organization was ready to draft Wilson while keeping him regardless of whether a trade happened. Darnold being traded didn’t precipitate Wilson being drafted- it was his shitty play that did. The trade was just one that was too good to pass up given his value to the team at that point in time.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 01, 2021, 11:39:51 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 11:45:18 AM
lmao
I'll own that one. Successful was the wrong and retarded on my part.
Highly talented
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 11:45:37 AM
It's not a excrement excuse, it's a WIP whether you like it or not. Becton is hurt, and AVT is a rookie who missed most of camp.Work in progress implies that there is improvement in some capacity.
Quote
EDIT: And the biggest reason you're not seeing results right away isn't Douglas...it's that our entire coaching regime and QB are rookies.
Jesus freaking christ, man. No one expected results right away. He's been the GM for three years and he was touted as someone who could help fix the OLine. Zero progress in that field makes him open to criticism. I never said he deserves to be fired on the spot.
Post by: Badger on October 01, 2021, 11:46:06 AM
Successful was the wrong and retarded on my part.
https://youtu.be/nbYQCr7Uk2g
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 11:53:19 AM
He's been the GM for three years
He was hired in June of 2019. He didn't get free agency or the draft that year. He really only have a waiver claim scrap heap to work with.
I keep seeing people saying "THREE YEARS!" when that's not entirely correct.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 12:00:02 PM
Yet here we are with another top draft pick getting killed behind an offensive line that looks just as bad as it did when Douglas took over and vowed he would do everything he could to protect the guy Wilson just replaced.
Proportion matters.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 12:01:03 PM
He was hired in June of 2019. He didn't get free agency or the draft that year. He really only have a waiver claim scrap heap to work with.
I keep seeing people saying "THREE YEARS!" when that's not entirely correct.
Great technicality. Don't care.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 12:01:25 PM
If it was Mike White or Josh Johnson or any other veteran stop-gap having to ditch the ball immediately after snapping it then I wouldn't be as critical. If the OLine made ANY progress in their ability to defend against pass rushers, I wouldn't be as critical.
Yet here we are with another top draft pick getting killed behind an offensive line that looks just as bad as it did when Douglas took over and vowed he would do everything he could to protect the guy Wilson just replaced.
Proportion matters.
Douglas drafted Becton, AVT, and Clark. He's trying to improve the line. McGovern and GVR have not worked out. I think Fant and Moses were both solid signings.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 12:02:23 PM
Great technicality. Don't care.
What was he supposed to do in 2019?
He got Kalil to hop off the couch in August. That's about all he could do.
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
What was he supposed to do in 2019?
He got Kalil to hop off the couch in August. That's about all he could do.
I agree he gets a pass for 2019, but I also agree with Cato. I wish I could see some signs of improvement. I'm clinging to the hope that it's just a matter of waiting for the new system to settle in.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 12:18:04 PM
Douglas drafted Becton, AVT, and Clark. He's trying to improve the line. McGovern and GVR have not worked out. I think Fant and Moses were both solid signings.
Yeah, he's tried. For one reason or another, it hasn't worked and we're back to a patchwork of backups or people who should be backups. Criticizing him for the makeup of the OLine is not an unreasonable point.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 12:18:53 PM
Using 2019 against him just doesn't make any sense.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 12:19:16 PM
Yeah, he's tried. For one reason or another, it hasn't worked and we're back to a patchwork of backups or people who should be backups. Criticizing him for the makeup of the OLine is not an unreasonable point.
But criticizing him for 2019 is unreasonable
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 01, 2021, 12:42:09 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 12:46:00 PM
A lot of posts to essentially say JD has done an average job in his tenure as GM
I'm beginning to think you believe the GM position is exactly how it's portrayed in all the Madden games. #FranchiseMode
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 01, 2021, 12:50:12 PM
I'm beginning to think you believe the GM position is exactly how it's portrayed in all the Madden games. #FranchiseMode
I think you're ready to put JD in Canton.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
I think you're ready to put JD in Canton.
How so?
Because i'm willing to give him longer than 5 mins to rebuild this roster?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 12:51:46 PM
A lot of posts to essentially say JD has done an average job in his tenure as GM
So in two full off-seasons, he was supposed to turn around an absolute dumpster fire?
Our defense is top ten right now. But he doesn't get any credit for that though...
It's an unfinished job.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 01, 2021, 12:55:57 PM
How so?
Because i'm willing to give him longer than 5 mins to rebuild this roster?
I'm giving him time...I'm not demanding he be fired (like I did Gase) all I'm saying is he's done an average job thus far.
On the other hand, he can do no wrong in your eyes.
We just have a different POV on the performance of our GM...and that's ok
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 01, 2021, 12:56:57 PM
So in two full off-seasons, he was supposed to turn around an absolute dumpster fire?
Our defense is top ten right now. But he doesn't get any credit for that though...
It's an unfinished job.
Agree on the bolded point
He get's the credit for Good moves + questionable moves which = average
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 12:59:17 PM
I'm giving him time...I'm not demanding he be fired (like I did Gase) all I'm saying is he's done an average job thus far.
On the other hand, he can do no wrong in your eyes.
We just have a different POV on the performance of our GM...and that's ok
Of course he can do wrong in my eyes....i criticized the fact that he didn't sign a veteran QB. That's a costly mistake imo.
And you're not giving him time. This team needs like 3-5 years of roster renovations before we're going to contend. I get that nobody has the patience for it, but that's the hand we were dealt.
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2021, 01:05:26 PM
So in two full off-seasons, he was supposed to turn around an absolute dumpster fire?
Our defense is top ten right now. But he doesn't get any credit for that though...
It's an unfinished job.
The problem with that is that we've spent the last 12+ years saying "but at least the defense" and everyone's a bit sick of it. We haven't consistently had an offense that got us excited since Pennington - we had a brief interlude with Fitz and Marshall and Decker, but that was always a temporary thing that wasn't built on long term players. Douglas was supposed to bring us an offense-led rebuild and thus far there's not much to be excited about.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 01:06:45 PM
The problem with that is that we've spent the last 12+ years saying "but at least the defense" and everyone's a bit sick of it. We haven't consistently had an offense that got us excited since Pennington - we had a brief interlude with Fitz and Marshall and Decker, but that was always a temporary thing that wasn't built on long term players. Douglas was supposed to bring us an offense-led rebuild and thus far there's not much to be excited about.
because the rebuild is still in progress. And you couple that with a new coaching regime, it's going to take some time. Even Morgan Moses came out and said that the oline is still taking time to gel as a unit.
EDIT: Look how long it took for the Browns to turn it around. It started with the Myles Garrett draft (in 2017), then they drafted their franchise QB and found the right coach in Stefanski....but even that offense took time as well. That Garrett draft was 5 years ago. 5 drafts!
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2021, 01:09:32 PM
because the rebuild is still in progress. And you couple that with a new coaching regime, it's going to take some time. Even Morgan Moses came out and said that the oline is still taking time to gel as a unit.
Yes, I agree. I don't think anyone is sensibly expecting to see an overnight transformation, but Cato is right that after two years of Douglas we're still not seeing really any evidence of improvement. Just something on the offensive side of the ball that we could point to and say "at least that's better than it was" would be nice, but it's not there.
I also agree with your point about the vet, as you know. I can not for the life of me understand why anyone in the organisation thinks that the best thing for Zach is to have Mike White on the sideline every Sunday.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 01:11:43 PM
Yes, I agree. I don't think anyone is sensibly expecting to see an overnight transformation, but Cato is right that after two years of Douglas we're still not seeing really any evidence of improvement. Just something on the offensive side of the ball that we could point to and say "at least that's better than it was" would be nice, but it's not there.
I also agree with your point about the vet, as you know. I can not for the life of me understand why anyone in the organisation thinks that the best thing for Zach is to have Mike White on the sideline every Sunday.
GVR and McGovern aside....our oline is better this year than last year. I have no idea how you guys don't see any improvement. We couldn't run the freaking ball last year.
The only reason GVR is playing is because his competition got hurt in TC.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 01:12:07 PM
Douglas was supposed to bring us an offense-led rebuild and thus far there's not much to be excited about.
Was he? Or is that just what you wanted?
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2021, 01:21:15 PM
Was he? Or is that just what you wanted?
From his introductory press conference:
Quote
Douglas came out swinging, saying “this is a game of wills. And we’re going to try to build a team that can impose their will on other teams and to do that you have to be strong up front, not just on the offensive line but the defensive line. And then it’s about dynamic and explosive playmakers, (on) both sides of the ball. That’s what we’re looking for.”
Two years in, do we feel he has made any progress on that offensively? I'm not sure he as. I want to believe, but the time for blind faith is starting to end. I would like some evidence.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 01:27:57 PM
Post by: reuben on October 01, 2021, 01:28:33 PM
GVR and McGovern aside....our oline is better this year than last year. I have no idea how you guys don't see any improvement. We couldn't run the freaking ball last year.
The only reason GVR is playing is because his competition got hurt in TC.
3.9 per carry this year, 4.1 last year.
It's not that Douglas doesn't deserve credit for pulling a decent secondary out of the dregs of day 3. It's not that the team hasn't improved overall since last season. It's that just about everyone knew that the most important and immediate priority in a lengthy, multi-year rebuild needed to be the offensive line. I don't give a damn about what an impressive roof Douglas built when the foundation is made out of paper mache.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 01:29:33 PM
Two years in, do we feel he has made any progress on that offensively? I'm not sure he as. I want to believe, but the time for blind faith is starting to end. I would like some evidence.
That's on coaching and playcalling. Douglas drafted and signed explosive playmakers (Moore, Davis, Carter, Mims, Carl Lawson) , the coaches have to utilize them correctly.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 01:30:29 PM
3.9 per carry this year, 4.1 last year.
It's not that Douglas doesn't deserve credit for pulling a decent secondary out of the dregs of day 3. It's not that the team hasn't improved overall since last season. It's that just about everyone knew that the most important and immediate priority in a lengthy, multi-year rebuild needed to be the offensive line. I don't give a damn about what an impressive roof Douglas built when the foundation is made out of paper mache.
Again...the foundation is still being built.
We still need upgrades at C and RG. McGovern and GVR shouldn't be on the roster next year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
GVR and McGovern aside....our oline is better this year than last year. I have no idea how you guys don't see any improvement. We couldn't run the freaking ball last year.That seems like a reach to say the only reason GVR is playing is because a 4th round pick who couldn't get on the field last ear got injured.
The only reason GVR is playing is because his competition got hurt in TC.
GVR is starting because JD thought a competition between GVR, Feeney and Clark would result in the winner being effective enough.
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2021, 01:34:18 PM
Okay, so he literally said he wanted to build on both sides of the ball
Correct. And thus far we continue to be, and I'm sorry to be using this particular expression, the same old Jets. Good defense that is continually being let down by the offense.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 01:34:57 PM
That seems like a reach to say the only reason GVR is playing is because a 4th round pick who couldn't get on the field last ear got injured.
GVR is starting because JD thought a competition between GVR, Feeney and Clark would result in the winner being effective enough.
We'll never know, because there was no competition. What we do know is that GVR stinks.
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2021, 01:35:15 PM
That's on coaching and playcalling. Douglas drafted and signed explosive playmakers (Moore, Davis, Carter, Mims, Carl Lawson) , the coaches have to utilize them correctly.
Again, I'm keeping the faith. I just need it to be rewarded some time soon by something I can use as evidence that we're doing the right things and moving in the right direction.
Post by: Badger on October 01, 2021, 01:44:11 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 01:50:39 PM
But criticizing him for 2019 is unreasonable
I'm not criticizing him for 2019, I'm criticizing him for the OLine performing like it's 2019.
I don't care about the defense right now. At all. I don't care about the CBs he drafted in the late rounds that are starting because there are no veterans on the roster. I don't care about what rotational pass rushers he's found in the UDFA bin.
If we don't have a competent offensive line, we don't have a way to win or grow the franchise QB we keep drafting. Until I see that part of the team actually improve, the rest is useless.
Post by: reuben on October 01, 2021, 01:54:54 PM
Again...the foundation is still being built.
Yeah, well therein lies the problem. Nobody thinks the house should be done after two years. But step one? Step one should be done.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 01:58:36 PM
I'm not criticizing him for 2019, I'm criticizing him for the OLine performing like it's 2019.
I don't care about the defense right now. At all. I don't care about the CBs he drafted in the late rounds that are starting because there are no veterans on the roster. I don't care about what rotational pass rushers he's found in the UDFA bin.
If we don't have a competent offensive line, we don't have a way to win or grow the franchise QB we keep drafting. Until I see that part of the team actually improve, the rest is useless.
You're going to have to be patient then. New offensive system, new oline players, injured franchise LT, it's only week 4......you're going to be angry most of the year i'd suspect.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 01:59:49 PM
Yeah, well therein lies the problem. Nobody thinks the house should be done after two years. But step one? Step one should be done.
I think Douglas has been tasked with doing more than just step 1 at the same time. This team isn't just an oline away from competing.
Post by: reuben on October 01, 2021, 02:02:16 PM
I think Douglas has been tasked with doing more than just step 1 at the same time. This team isn't just an oline away from competing.
I don't give a damn about competing. I don't give a damn about wins and wild cards. I want to protect the rookie quarterback. It's the only goal.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 02:04:25 PM
I don't give a damn about competing. I don't give a damn about wins and wild cards. I want to protect the rookie quarterback. It's the only goal.
We all want that. But we have to face facts, the oline isn't 100% healthy nor is it completely rebuilt yet. Zach will be running for his life this season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
You're going to have to be patient then. New offensive system, new oline players, injured franchise LT, it's only week 4......you're going to be angry most of the year I'd suspect.
Are you assuming that bringing Becton back is suddenly going to make McGovern and GVR better? Or that at some point down the road they are going to suddenly snap out of this talent amnesia they appear to be suffering from and suddenly remember how to pass protect? AVT might actually show improvement this season. Becton might actually show improvement once he returns from injury. Van Roten and McGovern, on the other hand, are going to be the same turnstiles they were at the start of the season and as they were last season, and it just so happens that they play right freaking next to each other and make the shortest distance to the QB the easiest way to sack the QB.
So this is the environment that this team has once again decided to drop a rookie QB into and just, you know, see what happens. If Wilson keeps getting pounded like he has been in weeks 1-3, it's probably not going to have a positive effect on his development. So yes, I'm probably going to be angry for most of the year, because what happens this year has a high likelihood of carrying over to the next one in terms of how our QB develops.
So yes, I'm going to be very mad for this season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 02:25:54 PM
We all want that. But we have to face facts, the oline isn't 100% healthy nor is it completely rebuilt yet. Zach will be running for his life this season.
This is not a legitimate part of a rebuilding scheme. It is a failure of the front office. It has absolutely no business being accepted to the level some posters on this board have.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 01, 2021, 02:25:58 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 01, 2021, 02:30:01 PM
Of course he can do wrong in my eyes....i criticized the fact that he didn't sign a veteran QB. That's a costly mistake imo.
And you're not giving him time. This team needs like 3-5 years of roster renovations before we're going to contend. I get that nobody has the patience for it, but that's the hand we were dealt.
My perception of his performance has nothing to do with my patience.
I'm waiting, hoping, and praying he'll turn it around but thus far I think he's done an average job
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 02:31:38 PM
This is not a legitimate part of a rebuilding scheme. It is a failure of the front office. It has absolutely no business being accepted to the level some posters on this board have.
It's not a failure...the oline wasn't going to be rebuilt this fast. Two first rounders were spent on LT and LG, and there was nothing in FA. You've been told this multiple times. Elite oline players don't grown on trees, and they rarely make it to Free Agency.
Alio was right about one thing....we lucked into Moses, but only because he was actually made available.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 02:33:30 PM
My perception of his performance has nothing to do with my patience.
I'm waiting, hoping, and praying he'll turn it around but thus far I think he's done an average job
Dude...Douglas signed for 6 years. This wasn't going to be a quick turnaround. You can't look at an unfinished job and deem it an average effort when the job is still in progress.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 02:38:14 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2021, 02:42:15 PM
I think it's hilarious you guys are shitting on Douglas over the oline when our last 2 GMs completely ignored the position in every sense of the word.
I think that it is entirely possible for Loyal's assessment of his performance so far as average and him being an improvement on the last two GMs to be both correct.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 02:47:49 PM
I think that it is entirely possible for Loyal's assessment of his performance so far as average and him being an improvement on the last two GMs to be both correct.
I like to see the finished product first before i pass judgement. And believe me, in year 4 or 5, if we're still plodding along with the same schtick....you know i'll turn into Douglas's harshest critic.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 02:59:21 PM
3.9 per carry this year, 4.1 last year.
Not having Becton out there hurts YPC.
Also, LaFleur not knowing how to call a run game hurts too.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 01, 2021, 03:08:59 PM
This is not a legitimate part of a rebuilding scheme. It is a failure of the front office. It has absolutely no business being accepted to the level some posters on this board have.
Pretty much yeah
(https://tenor.com/view/when-harry-met-sally-gif-4547346)
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2021, 03:34:56 PM
Not having Becton out there hurts YPC.Eh, even if Lafleur sucks, is he really a downgrade over last year?
Also, LaFleur not knowing how to call a run game hurts too.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 03:35:43 PM
It's not a failure...the oline wasn't going to be rebuilt this fast. Two first rounders were spent on LT and LG, and there was nothing in FA. You've been told this multiple times. Elite oline players don't grown on trees, and they rarely make it to Free Agency.
Alio was right about one thing....we lucked into Moses, but only because he was actually made available.
Yes, I've heard you make the same asinine point multiple times before. I don't need all of the OLine to be elite, the team needs them to be competent. There is a lot of space between elite and competent.
Building the offensive line doesn't happen in a vacuum. This line isn't ready to let a rookie learn and thrive and yet the FO went ahead and OKed a plan that was going to get him destroyed even if the OLine was at full health. This is a freaking failure.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 01, 2021, 03:37:42 PM
Eh, even if Lafleur sucks, is he really a downgrade over last year?
So far he ain't no upgrade.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 03:39:35 PM
So far he ain't no upgrade.
Step 1: Blame OC, get new OC
Step 2: Blame new OC, get third OC
Step 3: "Why isn't Zach Wilson producing? Time for him to go!"
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Step 1: Blame OC, get new OCI am giving Lafleur time. Hes been here 3 games.
Step 2: Blame new OC, get third OC
Step 3: "Why isn't Zach Wilson producing? Time for him to go!"
All I am saying is that it is hard for him to be a downgrade, even if he isnt an upgrade yet.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2021, 04:15:12 PM
I am giving Lafleur time. Hes been here 3 games.
All I am saying is that it is hard for him to be a downgrade, even if he isnt an upgrade yet.
I'm just pointing out the pattern that the team is currently set up to follow.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 01, 2021, 04:49:16 PM
So far he ain't no upgrade.
SBTG
Post by: Heismanberg on October 01, 2021, 04:55:44 PM
I am giving Lafleur time. Hes been here 3 games.
All I am saying is that it is hard for him to be a downgrade, even if he isnt an upgrade yet.
He's only called three games in his life. I'll give him some time.
Post by: Badger on October 01, 2021, 04:57:53 PM
SBTGPreach
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2021, 05:03:16 PM
Yes, I've heard you make the same asinine point multiple times before. I don't need all of the OLine to be elite, the team needs them to be competent. There is a lot of space between elite and competent.It's not asinine...it's the correct analysis.
Building the offensive line doesn't happen in a vacuum. This line isn't ready to let a rookie learn and thrive and yet the FO went ahead and OKed a plan that was going to get him destroyed even if the OLine was at full health. This is a freaking failure.
Like I said, enjoy the season long anger.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 01, 2021, 05:45:23 PM
We all want that. But we have to face facts, the oline isn't 100% healthy nor is it completely rebuilt yet. Zach will be running for his life this season.
Why the freak would you invest the most important draft pick of your career in a QB, if you have such a terrible OL that he will be running for his life all season?
It's not like it was a desperation pick where we had no choice but to draft a QB. Douglas actually forced the situation as to us drafting a QB.
If you don't believe you can set a rookie QB up for success, if you know you have a terrible OL, TE, WR and an unknown HB core. Why would you force the situation of drafting a rookie QB?
1st round QB's have something like a 90% bust rate. Yet JD felt like this was the time to go all in.
And not just the talent lacking, but to do this with a freaking Rookie OC and Rookie (defensive) HC. Yup recipe for a franchise QB. Draft a tiny dude from a small school give him no talent and no coaching. Nothing that can go wrong there.
And it's not paying dividends, it's looking like we are about to destroy another prospect. You have Andrew Luck who was truly a generational prospect and shitty GMs ended his career before it took off.
Now we're doing that with someone who isn't a fraction of the QB he was.
We had the chance to stack the OL, and our wideout group. But JD decided he knew better.
Now here we are with a historically bad offense, and one of the most sacked QB's of all time (to start his career)
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2021, 10:09:39 PM
Post by: Laxin on October 01, 2021, 10:20:21 PM
Why the freak would you invest the most important draft pick of your career in a QB, if you have such a terrible OL that he will be running for his life all season?
It's not like it was a desperation pick where we had no choice but to draft a QB. Douglas actually forced the situation as to us drafting a QB.
If you don't believe you can set a rookie QB up for success, if you know you have a terrible OL, TE, WR and an unknown HB core. Why would you force the situation of drafting a rookie QB?
1st round QB's have something like a 90% bust rate. Yet JD felt like this was the time to go all in.
And not just the talent lacking, but to do this with a freaking Rookie OC and Rookie (defensive) HC. Yup recipe for a franchise QB. Draft a tiny dude from a small school give him no talent and no coaching. Nothing that can go wrong there.
And it's not paying dividends, it's looking like we are about to destroy another prospect. You have Andrew Luck who was truly a generational prospect and shitty GMs ended his career before it took off.
Now we're doing that with someone who isn't a fraction of the QB he was.
We had the chance to stack the OL, and our wideout group. But JD decided he knew better.
Now here we are with a historically bad offense, and one of the most sacked QB's of all time (to start his career)
I’m sure Douglas believed that the OL would be at least average with the additions he made the off-season. I think most of us in here were of the same belief. They added the best guard in the draft, had Becton in year 2 and added Moses at RT/OL depth. He tried to sign Thuney with a big contract, but he chose the team that went to back to back SBs. I’m sure he also thought a change in scheme would help as well. I think the majority of fans thought the OL would be better than last year and better than it currently has been. It obviously hasn’t. Becton is injured, AVT missed most of camp and all of the preseason… the starting OL didn’t play together until game 1.
I also don’t think the WR group is as terrible as you think it is. It has talent and depth. It doesn’t have an elite top end WR, but it should be good enough.
The TE group is miserable and Douglas should’ve added a better pass protection back. Those are indefensible, but I am a fan of Carter so far.
It’s week 3. We have a rookie QB and rookie coaches. This team is the youngest roster in the NFL. If they are still this bad by week 15, I’ll understand the Douglas criticism, but this is way to early in the season.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on October 01, 2021, 10:27:16 PM
Post by: Badger on October 01, 2021, 10:36:16 PM
90% of 1sr round QB’s are busts??? Where the freak did that come from?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211002/801581eee3bf7a46465835f362721c3f.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on October 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
We have 4 picks in the top 2 rounds next April, and we don't need to take a QB.
Let the GM finish the rebuild. Most people knew it was going to take longer than 2 offseasons.
Post by: Laxin on October 04, 2021, 10:19:56 AM
I would honestly be fine with never drafting a CB high with Saleh and Douglas. Seems like they are more than capable of finding talented player that are good scheme fits. Just keep drafting 5th or 6th round CBs.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 04, 2021, 10:29:17 AM
Braxton Berrios
Post by: bojanglesman on October 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
You know who played well yesterday...?Youregoddamnright.gif
Braxton Berrios
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 25, 2021, 09:36:47 AM
Now our offense won’t even resemble one that should be in the NFL.
It was already bad, but good luck with developing Carter, Moore, Mims, etc.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2021, 10:08:06 AM
Said it at the time and I’ll say it again, not signing a Vet QB was a dumbfuck move
I wonder how much say Mike Lafleur had in this decision
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 25, 2021, 10:25:37 AM
I wonder how much say Mike Lafleur had in this decision
I would have been OK with this if James Morgan wasn’t a shitbag or we actually had a developmental QB prospect. Mike White should be QB3 or on the practice squad.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2021, 10:29:36 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 25, 2021, 10:33:01 AM
Let's see how Mike White does before we fully bury him, but if he is a disaster, Douglas deserves a lot of criticism.
If Mike White is good, then we happened to get lucky. For the first time ever probably. Joe Douglas isnt some secret subpar Qb scout whisperer. See James Morgan.
The QB personnel planning has been very bad this year, regardless of the outcome of what happens next.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2021, 10:34:40 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 25, 2021, 10:36:51 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2021, 10:55:12 AM
If Mike White is good, then we happened to get lucky. For the first time ever probably. Joe Douglas isnt some secret subpar Qb scout whisperer. See James Morgan.It's literally his job to scout quarterbacks and evaluate the roster at every position. Douglas decided to let White and Morgan compete for the backup QB job, presumably because he thought they were good enough to be backups in the NFL.
The QB personnel planning has been very bad this year, regardless of the outcome of what happens next.
If White is incapable, then he deserves a ton of criticism. If White is actually decent, then I don't see how you can argue the QB personnel planning has been very bad. Why, because we don't have some random backup people have heard of?
I'm not confident in White, but we get a chance to see him play. Douglas brought him here and kept him here to be the backup rather than making a move to bring someone else in. I assume he thinks White is an NFL-caliber quarterback. If instead he is Luke Falk 2.0, Douglas should be destroyed.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 25, 2021, 11:04:11 AM
Post by: Jumbo on October 25, 2021, 11:08:04 AM
It's literally his job to scout quarterbacks and evaluate the roster at every position. Douglas decided to let White and Morgan compete for the backup QB job, presumably because he thought they were good enough to be backups in the NFL.
If White is incapable, then he deserves a ton of criticism. If White is actually decent, then I don't see how you can argue the QB personnel planning has been very bad. Why, because we don't have some random backup people have heard of?
I'm not confident in White, but we get a chance to see him play. Douglas brought him here and kept him here to be the backup rather than making a move to bring someone else in. I assume he thinks White is an NFL-caliber quarterback. If instead he is Luke Falk 2.0, Douglas should be destroyed.
It would also be the second time in three years we have multiple games with a QB who is a complete disaster under Douglas' watch if White is bad.
Quite a few teams have random backups who've never played. The difference is every other team with a rookie first round QB (Pats with Hoyer, 49ers with Jimmy G, Bears with Dalton/Foles, Jags with Beathard) have a guy on roster that has some NFL experience. The Jags one is clearly the worst besides us but they're also run by dumbfucks.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2021, 11:15:09 AM
It would also be the second time in three years we have multiple games with a QB who is a complete disaster under Douglas' watch if White is bad.I agree with the first paragraph. That would be a big problem for Douglas if White is a disaster. But outside of Jimmy G, none of the QBs you mentioned above are actually good, so I don't think it's a stretch for Mike White to be as good as Hoyer or Beathard. If he is, then all of the commotion over backup QB is overblown. If he's Luke Falk level bad, then it's pretty inexcusable to have this happen two out of three years.
Quite a few teams have random backups who've never played. The difference is every other team with a rookie first round QB (Pats with Hoyer, 49ers with Jimmy G, Bears with Dalton/Foles, Jags with Beathard) have a guy on roster that has some NFL experience. The Jags one is clearly the worst besides us but they're also run by dumbfucks.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 25, 2021, 03:02:17 PM
We’ve played this game before. What if Matt Simms is actually good? The only reason White is here is because our other backup was shittier. He was plan C.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 25, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 25, 2021, 04:01:21 PM
We’ve played this game before. What if Matt Simms is actually good?
"At least we get an extended look at Bryce Petty now."
Post by: bojanglesman on October 25, 2021, 04:09:26 PM
Sign Cam ;D..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211025/a611359730c580a518b5f13a2132afbd.gif)
Post by: delavan on October 25, 2021, 04:28:57 PM
..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211025/a611359730c580a518b5f13a2132afbd.gif)haha
Don't know what JD saw in oft-injured Jabari Zuniga vs. Jonathan Greenard when looking at Florida.
Greenard's last year at Gainesville:
- 52 tackles
- 15.5 TFL
- 9.5 sacks
- 3 FF (one recovered)
- 4 passes defended
-1 INT'
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2021, 06:19:51 PM
Don't know what JD saw in oft-injured Jabari Zuniga vs. Jonathan Greenard when looking at Florida.
Previous regime, lots of leftover scouts
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2021, 06:22:05 PM
Previous regime, lots of leftover scoutsHow do we know Douglas brought in better scouts though?
Just seems like every bad Jets pick for the last two decades, we chalk up to the previous regime.
The good thing about the Flacco trade is that Douglas made so many trades to acquire picks that we can afford to move one in a situation like this.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2021, 08:28:09 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 25, 2021, 08:55:24 PM
You don't get destroyed like this because of a QB injury. You get destroyed like this because every area of the organization failed offense/defense/special teams/coaching/scouting/management. This was a total destruction. So how do I feel about Douglas is not printable right about now.
The team he put together is an absolute joke.
Thank you.
I've been saying this for weeks, but it's always the same merry-go-round of "give him a chance" BS that we've been dealing with under every GM for this team for years.
The awful offensive line got the #2 pick of the draft injured. It was on Douglas to dedicate whatever resources necessary to the OL. Instead, he spent a bunch of draft picks on defense, after being unable to do much of anything to fix OL in free agency, and the defense still looks like excrement when Mosely isn't around.
Fire him.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2021, 09:14:29 PM
How do we know Douglas brought in better scouts though?
We don’t
Post by: Badger on October 25, 2021, 09:14:32 PM
Thank you.lol
I've been saying this for weeks, but it's always the same merry-go-round of "give him a chance" BS that we've been dealing with under every GM for this team for years.
The awful offensive line got the #2 pick of the draft injured. It was on Douglas to dedicate whatever resources necessary to the OL. Instead, he spent a bunch of draft picks on defense, after being unable to do much of anything to fix OL in free agency, and the defense still looks like excrement when Mosely isn't around.
Fire him.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 25, 2021, 09:15:52 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2021, 09:22:07 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 26, 2021, 07:09:16 AM
Thank you.
I've been saying this for weeks, but it's always the same merry-go-round of "give him a chance" BS that we've been dealing with under every GM for this team for years.
The awful offensive line got the #2 pick of the draft injured. It was on Douglas to dedicate whatever resources necessary to the OL. Instead, he spent a bunch of draft picks on defense, after being unable to do much of anything to fix OL in free agency, and the defense still looks like excrement when Mosely isn't around.
Fire him.
hahaha
Post by: mj2sexay on October 26, 2021, 10:06:44 AM
Thank you.
I've been saying this for weeks, but it's always the same merry-go-round of "give him a chance" BS that we've been dealing with under every GM for this team for years.
The awful offensive line got the #2 pick of the draft injured. It was on Douglas to dedicate whatever resources necessary to the OL. Instead, he spent a bunch of draft picks on defense, after being unable to do much of anything to fix OL in free agency, and the defense still looks like excrement when Mosely isn't around.
Fire him.
You want to fire Saleh as well?
Otherwise, who do you think is going to come into this dumpster fire without even having the ability to pick their own head coach?
Joe's the GM for at least another year.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 26, 2021, 11:56:12 AM
He’ll be halfway through his deal after this season.
If the team isn’t trending upwards by years 4 and 5, it’s fair to question how much time he needs for any progress to be made.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 26, 2021, 11:59:55 AM
He was given a 6 year deal with the implication that he has time to turn it around.Agreed. He inherited a dumpster fire. We shouldn't be surprised it's taking time to turn around. But we need to start seeing progress next season.
He’ll be halfway through his deal after this season.
If the team isn’t trending upwards by years 4 and 5, it’s fair to question how much time he needs for any progress to be made.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 26, 2021, 12:00:10 PM
https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/32437785/ranking-fastest-slowest-nfl-teams-how-all-32-rosters-speed-stacks-why-crucial-today-game
Post by: MBGreen on October 26, 2021, 12:00:32 PM
He was given a 6 year deal with the implication that he has time to turn it around.
He’ll be halfway through his deal after this season.
If the team isn’t trending upwards by years 4 and 5, it’s fair to question how much time he needs for any progress to be made.
this is both fair and accurate
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 26, 2021, 12:15:19 PM
In other news, we're the slowest team in the NFL.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/32437785/ranking-fastest-slowest-nfl-teams-how-all-32-rosters-speed-stacks-why-crucial-today-game
How is this possible? Aren’t we the youngest team by age?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 26, 2021, 12:18:47 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 26, 2021, 12:20:01 PM
How is this possible? Aren’t we the youngest team by age?Looking at the methodology, it's based on each player's top 5 speeds since the start of the 2020 season. Since we have so many rookies and guys who have only really played in 6 games in 2021, and we haven't really had big plays where guys can showcase their speed, I think that might drag us down a bit.
Post by: Johnny English on October 26, 2021, 12:34:51 PM
Looking at the methodology, it's based on each player's top 5 speeds since the start of the 2020 season. Since we have so many rookies and guys who have only really played in 6 games in 2021, and we haven't really had big plays where guys can showcase their speed, I think that might drag us down a bit.
This seems like a metric that could be flawed in a few ways, not least being that a) it would appear to punish defensive players who aren't caught out of position and don't need to turn on the burners, b) as you say it doesn't take account of whether players are being given the opportunity or instruction to pin their ears back, and c) in man coverage players are generally only needing to go as fast as the guy they're covering.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 26, 2021, 12:47:06 PM
This seems like a metric that could be flawed in a few ways, not least being that a) it would appear to punish defensive players who aren't caught out of position and don't need to turn on the burners, b) as you say it doesn't take account of whether players are being given the opportunity or instruction to pin their ears back, and c) in man coverage players are generally only needing to go as fast as the guy they're covering.I agree, but there's not really an easy way to quantify which teams are the fastest. It's all going to be subjective in terms of how you measure it.
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2021, 02:35:08 PM
@BrianCoz
·
23m
Saleh said he thanks Joe Douglas every other day for being aggressive during the draft and moving up to draft AVT
Post by: dcm1602 on November 02, 2021, 02:49:12 PM
Brian Costello
@BrianCoz
·
23m
Saleh said he thanks Joe Douglas every other day for being aggressive during the draft and moving up to draft AVT
I wonder how many times he's thanked JD for drafting Zach Wilson
Post by: Heismanberg on November 02, 2021, 02:53:36 PM
I wonder how many times he's thanked JD for drafting Zach Wilson
STFU
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 02, 2021, 02:55:09 PM
I wonder how many times he's thanked JD for drafting signing Mike White
FTFY
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2021, 03:00:30 PM
I wonder how many times he's thanked JD for drafting Zach Wilson
drink bleach
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 02, 2021, 03:04:18 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 02, 2021, 03:06:35 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2021, 03:07:24 PM
I doubt Tard plays this year.
he played last night.
Post by: insanity on November 02, 2021, 03:11:01 PM
he played last night.Tard
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 02, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
I doubt Tard plays this year.
Well it’s an expiring contract so…
Post by: reuben on November 02, 2021, 03:21:26 PM
I doubt Tard plays this year.
I love how he's a doctor with the most aristocratic-sounding name in the NFL: "Tard."
Post by: dcm1602 on November 02, 2021, 03:28:35 PM
he played last night.
It was reported he was active but didn't actually play
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2021, 03:29:58 PM
It was reported he was active but didn't actually play
Are you going to be ok with this?
Post by: Badger on November 02, 2021, 03:30:56 PM
TardGetting a Tard jersey ASAP
Post by: dcm1602 on November 02, 2021, 03:31:08 PM
Well it’s an expiring contract so…
So was Brown.
It's not like we gave up draft picks for him. I think it's probable he plays snaps this year, but it's far from a sure thing
Post by: bojanglesman on November 02, 2021, 03:31:38 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 02, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Are you going to be ok with this?
I think it's a great move. Just adding context.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 02, 2021, 03:32:26 PM
Getting a Tard jersey ASAPGet me one too, I'll pay you back.
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2021, 03:33:06 PM
I think it's a great move. Just adding context.
Thank you for your service
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2021, 03:34:45 PM
Tard won't play unless GVR goes down. Time to find the voodoo dolls.
if GVR continues to give up pressures like he has been, he'll be riding the bench....voodoo dolls not required.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 02, 2021, 03:35:14 PM
if GVR continues to give up pressures like he has been, he'll be riding the bench....voodoo dolls not required.
Nope. Won't happen.
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2021, 03:38:20 PM
Nope. Won't happen.
But....you've been wrong for as long as i've known you. I even trusted your decision to go to Buffalo Wild Wings, and that blew up in our faces too.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 02, 2021, 03:40:11 PM
But....you've been wrong for as long as i've known you. I even trusted your decision to go to Buffalo Wild Wings, and that blew up in our faces too.
I went with BW3 because it was close by, but yes it was awful, no excuses. Wing-flavored salt lick.
I would say I've been wrong a lot, but seeing that I'm wrong a lot I can't agree because that would likely make me right a lot.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 02, 2021, 03:42:39 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 02, 2021, 03:43:36 PM
I'm a little surprised we didn't get trade anyone after all the smoke about it.
Nobody wanted to pay the JD prices
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 02, 2021, 03:49:16 PM
So was Brown.
It's not like we gave up draft picks for him. I think it's probable he plays snaps this year, but it's far from a sure thing
Brown’s contract status doesn’t factor into LDT’s playing proabability.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 02, 2021, 03:51:59 PM
I'm a little surprised we didn't trade anyone after all the smoke about it.
It's all about the compensatory picks.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 02, 2021, 03:52:19 PM
Reread Bo’s post.
Yes, I disagree with him, but his opinion isn't farfetched either.
I wouldn't expect Tard to play the next 3 to 4 weeks barring injury.
I think most likely scenario is he gets a few games right at the end of the season as his job interview for next year
Post by: delavan on November 03, 2021, 08:31:14 AM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/OutDoor_2018%2C_Friedrichshafen_%281X7A0168%29.jpg/320px-OutDoor_2018%2C_Friedrichshafen_%281X7A0168%29.jpg)
Post by: Johnny English on November 05, 2021, 08:49:28 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 05, 2021, 09:07:40 AM
I'm upset that our shitty players and our shitty coaches let our GM down last night, and whoever hired them should hang their head in shame.
Saleh said himself after the Bengals game that this season will have ups and downs. Suck it up.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 05, 2021, 09:14:48 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 05, 2021, 09:15:57 AM
Joe Douglas doesn't give out candy on Halloween.
haha
Post by: Miamipuck on November 05, 2021, 09:33:56 AM
Post by: insanity on November 05, 2021, 02:12:29 PM
Same as I thought of him last week and the week before, meh.Who do you think are the top 5 gms in the league?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 05, 2021, 02:15:59 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 05, 2021, 02:34:55 PM
Who do you think are the top 5 gms in the league?
1. Joe Douglas
2. Joe Douglas
3. Joe Douglas
4. Joe Douglas
5. Dylan
Post by: Miamipuck on November 05, 2021, 02:47:07 PM
Joe Douglas thought The Big Bang Theory was a great show.
Here
1. Joe Douglas
2. Joe Douglas
3. Joe Douglas
4. Joe Douglas
5. Dylan
Post by: MBGreen on November 21, 2021, 05:06:35 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2021, 08:40:03 PM
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1462544598736113671?t=T1zfJM6L_obgSw8jVqDoLw&s=19
So Carter and Moore are averaging 62 yards and just under half a score per game, and you think this is a good argument for the GM?
I think they're both good players, but they're both undersized and likely to have shorter careers, in particular Carter. Picks like this are table stakes for a competent GM. If you want to show me how good a job Douglas is doing almost halfway through his six year contract, show me a pick that is significantly outperforming their draft position. The only ones I see an argument for are Bryce Hall, who was an injury gamble, and Carter II who looks solid enough so far.
Post by: MBGreen on November 21, 2021, 09:17:47 PM
So Carter and Moore are averaging 62 yards and just under half a score per game, and you think this is a good argument for the GM?AVT
I think they're both good players, but they're both undersized and likely to have shorter careers, in particular Carter. Picks like this are table stakes for a competent GM. If you want to show me how good a job Douglas is doing almost halfway through his six year contract, show me a pick that is significantly outperforming their draft position. The only ones I see an argument for are Bryce Hall, who was an injury gamble, and Carter II who looks solid enough so far.
Post by: Laxin on November 21, 2021, 09:32:34 PM
So Carter and Moore are averaging 62 yards and just under half a score per game, and you think this is a good argument for the GM?
I think they're both good players, but they're both undersized and likely to have shorter careers, in particular Carter. Picks like this are table stakes for a competent GM. If you want to show me how good a job Douglas is doing almost halfway through his six year contract, show me a pick that is significantly outperforming their draft position. The only ones I see an argument for are Bryce Hall, who was an injury gamble, and Carter II who looks solid enough so far.
Why are you so pessimistic? Douglas had what looks to be a great draft but because Moore and Carter are undersized, he shouldn’t be given much credit? 62 yards per game is north of 1000 yards over a 17 game season. He just drafted the 2 best offensive skill position players the Jets have added in what has to be over a decade.
Post by: Badger on November 21, 2021, 09:33:53 PM
Why are you so pessimistic? Douglas had what looks to be a great draft but because Moore and Carter are undersized, he shouldn’t be given much credit? 62 yards per game is north of 1000 yards over a 17 game season. He just drafted the 2 best offensive skill position players the Jets have added in what has to be over a decade.
Because too many people are pro Douglas and he's a born contrarian.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2021, 09:37:10 PM
AVT
14th overall pick. He's an excellent player taken at a position where only excellence is acceptable.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2021, 09:41:14 PM
Why are you so pessimistic? Douglas had what looks to be a great draft but because Moore and Carter are undersized, he shouldn’t be given much credit? 62 yards per game is north of 1000 yards over a 17 game season. He just drafted the 2 best offensive skill position players the Jets have added in what has to be over a decade.
It's almost exactly 1000 yards in a 16 game season, which makes them good players - like I said they are. I'm not pessimistic, I'm saying that he got the right players at the right place in the draft. Small players are finished earlier in the NFL, especially at high impact positions like running back. I'm not sure why you think that's a contentious view.
It's a bit sad that people are willing to celebrate basic levels of competence as excelling. Thus far Douglas is demonstrating basic levels of competence, sometimes.
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2021, 09:41:44 PM
Because too many people are pro Douglas and he's a born contrarian.
Yes, literally everyone else is delirious about the job he's doing so far.
Post by: MBGreen on November 21, 2021, 09:50:41 PM
It's almost exactly 1000 yards in a 16 game season, which makes them good players - like I said they are. I'm not pessimistic, I'm saying that he got the right players at the right place in the draft. Small players are finished earlier in the NFL, especially at high impact positions like running back. I'm not sure why you think that's a contentious view.Youre very pessimistic...probably because you don't know what you're talking about
It's a bit sad that people are willing to celebrate basic levels of competence as excelling. Thus far Douglas is demonstrating basic levels of competence, sometimes.
Post by: Laxin on November 21, 2021, 10:45:11 PM
It's almost exactly 1000 yards in a 16 game season, which makes them good players - like I said they are. I'm not pessimistic, I'm saying that he got the right players at the right place in the draft. Small players are finished earlier in the NFL, especially at high impact positions like running back. I'm not sure why you think that's a contentious view.
It's a bit sad that people are willing to celebrate basic levels of competence as excelling. Thus far Douglas is demonstrating basic levels of competence, sometimes.
I never said he's excelling, I said he had a very good draft. Drafting what looks like 4 impact starters in a single class is not "basic levels of competence" for a GM (and that's excluding Wilson).
I think condemning Carter because he's short is a fair assessment either. There have been plenty of smaller RBs to have had success later into their 20's. Expecting much more from any RB is a pipe dream.
He had a very good draft, is it wrong for fans to be happy with that and think that it has given him a bit more of leash?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2021, 12:58:23 AM
So Carter and Moore are averaging 62 yards and just under half a score per game, and you think this is a good argument for the GM?No wonder you have no interest in draft picks. Even when we get exciting draft picks in strong value spots, you have to rip them for seemingly no reason.
I think they're both good players, but they're both undersized and likely to have shorter careers, in particular Carter. Picks like this are table stakes for a competent GM. If you want to show me how good a job Douglas is doing almost halfway through his six year contract, show me a pick that is significantly outperforming their draft position. The only ones I see an argument for are Bryce Hall, who was an injury gamble, and Carter II who looks solid enough so far.
And both Carter and Moore are outperforming their draft position right now. Especially when you consider the trajectory they are on.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2021, 01:00:59 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2021, 06:02:15 AM
Also, this idea that short running backs somehow have a shorter lifespan is based on absolutely nothing.It's a dumb take
5'7 Maurice Jones-Drew played 9 seasons.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2021, 08:28:07 AM
Also, this idea that short running backs somehow have a shorter lifespan is based on absolutely nothing.
Let's put Denzel Mims at running back
Post by: Badger on November 22, 2021, 08:36:15 AM
Let's put Denzel Mims at running backHe doesn't know all the run blocking lanes
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 22, 2021, 08:52:56 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2021, 08:59:40 AM
There's also an argument to be made that the opposite is true when it comes to big vs. small receivers.
Yep. Elijah Moore took one big hit yesterday and the defender bounced off of him.
Post by: insanity on November 22, 2021, 09:36:51 AM
Yep. Elijah Moore took one big hit yesterday and the defender bounced off of him.
I'm interested to see how our offense ends up being built around him. Even if he is your best receiver I don't think you sit on your hands and keep him on the outside as #1.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on November 22, 2021, 09:38:39 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2021, 10:06:47 AM
I'm interested to see how our offense ends up being built around him. Even if he is your best receiver I don't think you sit on your hands and keep him on the outside as #1.
Treylon Burks would be a hell of an addition to this offense. He's a big-bodied vertical threat that can do serious damage after the catch.
Reminds me a lot of Andre Johnson.
I just don't know if you can pass on a top corner for him.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2021, 11:53:07 AM
Yep. Elijah Moore took one big hit yesterday and the defender bounced off of him.And the one guy many fans compared him to - Santana Moss - played forever.
Plenty of short RBs have played long. MJD and Frank Gore are both 5'9" and 5'7" and played a while. Then there are scatbacks like Darren Sproles which played deep into their 30's compared to most.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2021, 12:03:20 PM
Plenty of short RBs have played long. MJD and Frank Gore are both 5'9" and 5'7" and played a while. Then there are scatbacks like Darren Sproles which played deep into their 30's compared to most.
We need another back to pair with Carter. Tevin Coleman looks fine, but I do think we need a bigger back that can get some tough yardage.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 22, 2021, 12:06:27 PM
We need another back to pair with Carter. Tevin Coleman looks fine, but I do think we need a bigger back that can get some tough yardage.Totally agree. I don't hate Ty Johnson as much as most of you, but we should be able to improve on him and Coleman as our RB2 and RB3. Especially if we want to have a more consistent running game, and especially considering how much we likely want to rotate at RB.
I am happy we didn't invest a lot of resources at the position. That's one of the last positions you address in a rebuild. We obviously needed somebody, and Carter falling to the 4th was a steal, so that was a great pick. Now we can find a complementary back to go with him.
We've used Ty Johnson as a short-yardage back this year. Before this year, the knock on Johnson was that he doesn't get any tough yards, so that seems like a bad role for him, but we don't have many options (and Perine sucks).
Post by: Libero_2 on November 22, 2021, 05:46:20 PM
Treylon Burks would be a hell of an addition to this offense. He's a big-bodied vertical threat that can do serious damage after the catch.
Reminds me a lot of Andre Johnson.
I just don't know if you can pass on a top corner for him.
Yes you can, and we should prioritize offense over defense as for the youth of this franchise. Give Zach young weapons to work with and grow with.
We also seriously need a completely new TE room this off-season. We need 3 new TEs. We need to sign a starter, sign a depth guy and draft a guy in the 2nd/3rd
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2021, 08:18:53 PM
We need a tight end that can play in the slot and in-line.
Post by: MBGreen on December 08, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Quote
Michael David Smith
@MichaelDavSmith
·
2h
The draft picks the Seahawks spent to trade for Jamal Adams, combined with the salary cap space they're using up in the new contract they gave him, make acquiring him one of the worst transactions by any team in NFL history.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/338/845/6c6.gif)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 13, 2021, 11:19:01 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2021, 09:50:45 AM
Post by: insanity on December 14, 2021, 10:09:45 AM
At best you can say that Douglas took over a bottom 5 team and has perpetuated a bottom 5 team since he has had control. The results are the results.Both the giants and jets are bottom 5 teams. Tell me the giants are better constructed and I'll call you a liar
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2021, 10:20:35 AM
Both the giants and jets are bottom 5 teams. Tell me the giants are better constructed and I'll call you a liarThey're more classy and have the magic success juice that JE craves
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2021, 10:40:47 AM
Both the giants and jets are bottom 5 teams. Tell me the giants are better constructed and I'll call you a liar
Jets and Giants are at different points in their rebuilds. They basically still have Duff, Darnold, and Gase right now.
I’m pretty confident they’ll freak up their rebuild by retaining Judge and in turn getting excrement GM candidates but that’s not really a great comparison until we see what they do this offseason. If they make the right hires and use their 2 first round picks correctly, there is definitely a scenario where they are better constructed than us.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 14, 2021, 10:59:29 AM
Jets and Giants are at different points in their rebuilds. They basically still have Duff, Darnold, and Gase right now.
I’m pretty confident they’ll freak up their rebuild by retaining Judge and in turn getting excrement GM candidates but that’s not really a great comparison until we see what they do this offseason. If they make the right hires and use their 2 first round picks correctly, there is definitely a scenario where they are better constructed than us.
Just curious, wtf do the Giants have anything to do with this quote:
At best you can say that Douglas took over a bottom 5 team and has perpetuated a bottom 5 team since he has had control. The results are the results.
Pretty accurate.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 14, 2021, 11:00:54 AM
At best you can say that Douglas took over a bottom 5 team and has perpetuated a bottom 5 team since he has had control. The results are the results.If the 2021 draft weren't looking good, Douglas would have a much hotter seat.
Though if Wilson busts, the rest of the draft won't matter quite as much.
Post by: Badger on January 10, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
Post by: Badger on January 30, 2022, 07:28:51 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 30, 2022, 10:02:32 PM
Also amazing to have so much dead money on our cap books. And almost all of it going to guys who we so badly overpaid and we knew it the day we signed them
Post by: Badger on January 30, 2022, 10:06:34 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 31, 2022, 08:58:57 AM
Wait did we already cut Ryan Griffin?
Also amazing to have so much dead money on our cap books. And almost all of it going to guys who we so badly overpaid and we knew it the day we signed them
A couple of times, actually.
Post by: reuben on January 31, 2022, 03:36:08 PM
Yeeeeah, everyone involved in that trade on Minny's side needed to lose their jobs.
Post by: MBGreen on March 02, 2022, 12:19:28 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 02, 2022, 02:22:16 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 02, 2022, 02:28:07 PM
Yeah but how much can we save if we cut Becton?
10 dollars per lb
Post by: Badger on March 04, 2022, 10:41:25 AM
https://twitter.com/zjb5802/status/1499771895062962178?t=3HrdXJipd95CimDkHu9RHw&s=19
Post by: Badger on March 04, 2022, 10:42:04 AM
QuoteJoe Douglas said Adam Gase will have input in personnel movesGood
Also lol
Post by: MBGreen on March 14, 2022, 01:24:54 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2022, 01:27:45 PM
doin' gods work so far. <3 Uncle Joe
long ways to go, but this is a solid first couple hours
Post by: MBGreen on March 14, 2022, 01:28:49 PM
long ways to go, but this is a solid first couple hours
that OReilly bitch is already hanging from a noose.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2022, 01:30:31 PM
that OReilly bitch is already hanging from a noose.
good
Post by: MBGreen on March 14, 2022, 06:04:25 PM
-filled the RG spot
-filled the pass catching TE spot
-retained some continuity for Zach
And it's only Day 1.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 14, 2022, 06:20:29 PM
Joe Douglas score card:Still got a long way to go, but can't complain about any of the 3 moves.
-filled the RG spot
-filled the pass catching TE spot
-retained some continuity for Zach
And it's only Day 1.
Post by: MBGreen on March 14, 2022, 06:25:23 PM
Still got a long way to go, but can't complain about any of the 3 moves.
Yep...he isn't done yet.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 14, 2022, 06:54:46 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 14, 2022, 06:55:26 PM
I'm happy with the results for day 1, assuming none of them pull a Kevin Barr.
Anthony Barr?
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 14, 2022, 06:55:53 PM
Anthony Barr?
Yeah that one. Fixed.
Post by: reuben on March 14, 2022, 07:00:45 PM
I'm happy with the results for day 1, assuming none of them pull an Anthony Barr.
Looking at Barr's subsequent production, I don't think the outcome would have been so bad for us if Duff hadn't locked himself in his office for the next three days, sobbing, listening to The Cure on a loop, while every other remaining pass rusher was scooped up.
Post by: MBGreen on March 14, 2022, 07:01:37 PM
I'm happy with the results for day 1, assuming none of them pull an Anthony Barr.
or worse...Antoine Winfield
Post by: insanity on March 14, 2022, 07:14:41 PM
O line needed to be upgraded in free agency rather than first two rounds
Made tight end a priority
Re-signed a few guys on offense for continuity and to plug holes.
Based on the way free agency is moving, and how much weve spent already I feel strongly that sauce will be our pick at 4.
We need to upgrade the cb position, but we don't have the money to pay a guy like Gilmore. We will likely pick up 1-2 rotational players at dline simialr to our vinny curry pick up last year and then draft edge in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 14, 2022, 07:22:48 PM
Any of edge, Sauce and Hamilton all make sense at 4. Not sure what direction they will go, but I do think edge is the main priority.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2022, 07:29:35 PM
we don't have the money to pay a guy like Gilmore.
Who else are we going to pay?
Post by: MBGreen on March 14, 2022, 07:30:41 PM
Who else are we going to pay?
Clappy McClapperson
Post by: bojanglesman on March 14, 2022, 07:32:50 PM
Who else are we going to pay?Marcus Williams?
Post by: insanity on March 14, 2022, 07:36:10 PM
Who else are we going to pay?
After today's moves we have 25M left. After draft pcik salaries we only have 10-12M left
JD seems like a guy who'd rather sign 3 of the following then 1 cb
- Dt
- rotational end
- safety
We could also use another wr, te, lb, swing tackle.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 14, 2022, 08:02:41 PM
After today's moves we have 25M left. After draft pcik salaries we only have 10-12M left
JD seems like a guy who'd rather sign 3 of the following then 1 cb
- Dt
- rotational end
- safety
We could also use another wr, te, lb, swing tackle.
The jaguars are proving that can be manipulated quite easily. Same with the saints being $70 million over the cap and still going hard after Watson. Who I believe has a $150 million dollar deal or whatever it is
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 14, 2022, 08:21:30 PM
Everything else on the offense looks pretty well set aside from depth
Post by: Libero_2 on March 14, 2022, 08:40:32 PM
I’m feeling good about the offense provided we draft a WR very high (10, 35, or 38) and another TE somewhere in the 2nd-4thWe still need another back, as Carter hasn’t shown he can be “the guy” or even be healthy for an entire year.
Everything else on the offense looks pretty well set aside from depth
Post by: bojanglesman on March 14, 2022, 08:50:31 PM
We still need another back, as Carter hasn’t shown he can be “the guy” or even be healthy for an entire year.We have HOF Ty Johnson, what more do you want?
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 14, 2022, 08:50:43 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 14, 2022, 08:58:55 PM
All the beat writers seem to be on the Marcus Williams/Stephon Gilmore train. Let's see if they can sign either or both.
If we get both, I dare say 10 might actually be a slot for a LB if we don’t get the board we want
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 14, 2022, 08:58:58 PM
All the beat writers seem to be on the Marcus Williams/Stephon Gilmore train. Let's see if they can sign either or both.
I would enjoy that.
Post by: insanity on March 14, 2022, 09:17:35 PM
We have HOF Ty Johnson, what more do you want?Frank gore would be nice
Post by: Coach K on March 14, 2022, 09:35:51 PM
All jokes aside Tomlinson alone is huge
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 14, 2022, 09:41:19 PM
We still need another back, as Carter hasn’t shown he can be “the guy” or even be healthy for an entire year.
Probably the easiest position to sign or draft and I’m fine with Carter and Coleman as the 1-2. Hate Ty Johnson and Perine has been a bust but I’m not worried about RB. I expect we’ll add another.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 14, 2022, 09:50:16 PM
Probably the easiest position to sign or draft and I’m fine with Carter and Coleman as the 1-2. Hate Ty Johnson and Perine has been a bust but I’m not worried about RB. I expect we’ll add another.
I agree, RB is the easiest to find, but I just don’t think you can say we are set for starters on offense and just need depth pieces there. I very much disagree, we still need another back, a starting caliber WR and another TE, and it appears we want to upgrade at C, but might not be able to do so
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 14, 2022, 10:09:40 PM
a starting caliber WR and another TE
Methinks you did not read my post but replied to it anyways
Post by: MBGreen on March 15, 2022, 05:21:36 PM
@woodyjohnson4
·
1m
Joe and his team have been outstanding the last two days. Exciting things to come. Go #Jets!
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2022, 07:37:53 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 15, 2022, 09:32:34 PM
Gonna have to let Joe Douglas go after the Nate Shepherd signing, he’s clearly lost itHear me out...........….......what if he signed Dortch?
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 15, 2022, 10:39:27 PM
can only imagine it has to be for the vet minimum, he gives no production other than penalties and every time he speaks he re-confirms how much of a dumbass he is over and over
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2022, 05:52:46 AM
whats the money for with shepherdDoug is making him pay Woody to play.
can only imagine it has to be for the vet minimum, he gives no production other than penalties and every time he speaks he re-confirms how much of a dumbass he is over and over
Post by: MBGreen on March 21, 2022, 08:03:27 AM
@OptimisticJets
·
11m
#Jets are looking to add an extra pick in the 2023 draft by dealing one of their four picks in the top 40 this season, per @peter_king
Post by: Libero_2 on March 21, 2022, 08:19:02 AM
Optimistic Jets
@OptimisticJets
·
11m
#Jets are looking to add an extra pick in the 2023 draft by dealing one of their four picks in the top 40 this season, per @peter_king
In other words, JD doesn't see value at 10 for what we need, so he wants to trade back towards 17-20 for a 2 this year and next (or maybe a 1....) to put us in the best position for a value add (come on down captain Clapper)
Post by: MBGreen on March 21, 2022, 08:21:33 AM
In other words, JD doesn't see value at 10 for what we need, so he wants to trade back towards 17-20 for a 2 this year and next (or maybe a 1....) to put us in the best position for a value add (come on down captain Clapper)
it doesn't necessarily mean pick 10....
Post by: bojanglesman on March 21, 2022, 08:27:51 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 21, 2022, 08:29:53 AM
it doesn't necessarily mean pick 10....
It doesn't, but that feels like it's the most likely scenario. Who wants to come up to 4? Carolina?
In response to Bo, I can't see JD giving up one of our high seconds this year without getting a 2 back this year + something next year.
Post by: MBGreen on March 21, 2022, 08:31:32 AM
Or he could deal a 2nd rounder for a 1st rounder in 2023.
this is what i was alluding to
Post by: bojanglesman on March 21, 2022, 08:36:27 AM
It doesn't, but that feels like it's the most likely scenario. Who wants to come up to 4? Carolina?You never know where a 1st round pick ends up being. No one thought the Seahawks would get us a top 10 pick.
In response to Bo, I can't see JD giving up one of our high seconds this year without getting a 2 back this year + something next year.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 21, 2022, 08:46:29 AM
You never know where a 1st round pick ends up being. No one thought the Seahawks would get us a top 10 pick.
we dont. But I just don't see it as realistic. Teams don't usually buy a 2nd round pick for a future 1st. That happens like once every 5-6 years. I can't see that happening this year.
I could see a team (lets say TB for example) trying to jump from bottom of round 2 to top of round 2 for a 3 this year and a 2 next year. But I can't see them giving us 60 and a 1 next year for 38.
Post by: MBGreen on March 21, 2022, 09:03:36 AM
we dont. But I just don't see it as realistic. Teams don't usually buy a 2nd round pick for a future 1st. That happens like once every 5-6 years. I can't see that happening this year.
Why can't you see that happening? It's absolutely in play, especially with Joe Douglas...master of the fleece.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 21, 2022, 09:33:38 AM
Post by: Johnny English on March 21, 2022, 10:03:57 AM
we dont. But I just don't see it as realistic. Teams don't usually buy a 2nd round pick for a future 1st. That happens like once every 5-6 years. I can't see that happening this year.
I could see a team (lets say TB for example) trying to jump from bottom of round 2 to top of round 2 for a 3 this year and a 2 next year. But I can't see them giving us 60 and a 1 next year for 38.
I can definitely see a team that needs some extra capital this year to trade for a QB giving up a 2023 1st for 35 or 38.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 21, 2022, 10:22:07 AM
Robby wasn't traded but he wasn't kept.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 21, 2022, 10:24:25 AM
I can definitely see a team that needs some extra capital this year to trade for a QB giving up a 2023 1st for 35 or 38.
This really doesn't seem like the year to trade up for a QB, though.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 21, 2022, 10:27:49 AM
I can definitely see a team that needs some extra capital this year to trade for a QB giving up a 2023 1st for 35 or 38.
You think a team like the colts would trade a 2023 1st to us for 35, in an effort to trade 35 for Matt Ryan?
Why not just trade the 2023 1st to Atlanta?
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 21, 2022, 10:47:05 AM
You think a team like the colts would trade a 2023 1st to us for 35, in an effort to trade 35 for Matt Ryan?Exactly...the report that the Jets would take veterans for picks for a QB trade made sense because we might want players that other rebuilding teams might not want.
Why not just trade the 2023 1st to Atlanta?
But if teams want draft picks....they can just trade draft picks...
Post by: Johnny English on March 21, 2022, 10:55:33 AM
This really doesn't seem like the year to trade up for a QB, though.
I didn't say "trade up for a QB", I said "trade for a QB". For example, Lynch claims to have two seconds on the table as an offer for Garoppolo. Atlanta has two seconds this year, but Indy and New Orleans don't. (Seattle do as well but I'm assuming they won't trade in division.) So if that offer is from Atlanta and Indy or NO want to match/beat it, 35 and 38 look useful. Indy trading for Garoppolo would be doing so in the expectation of being competitive this season, so they would view it as giving up a low first next year for a high second this year, which isn't a huge leap.
Point is, there are a bunch of hypothetical but plausible scenarios in which a team might well want to do this kind of deal.
Post by: Johnny English on March 21, 2022, 10:58:02 AM
You think a team like the colts would trade a 2023 1st to us for 35, in an effort to trade 35 for Matt Ryan?
Why not just trade the 2023 1st to Atlanta?
Because if Atlanta wants to be competitive right now then they don't want to wait another year for a pick that might not be that much better, especially if their view of this draft is that there will be some players at the beginning of day 2 who they like? Because they want to move up this year for someone and teams would usually rather have the known immediate value than hopeful future value?
Post by: insanity on March 21, 2022, 11:36:04 AM
Because if Atlanta wants to be competitive right now then they don't want to wait another year for a pick that might not be that much better, especially if their view of this draft is that there will be some players at the beginning of day 2 who they like? Because they want to move up this year for someone and teams would usually rather have the known immediate value than hopeful future value?I think his main point was the second sentence.
Post by: Johnny English on March 21, 2022, 11:54:29 AM
I think his main point was the second sentence.
What did you think I was replying to?
Post by: bojanglesman on March 22, 2022, 09:51:48 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 24, 2022, 01:30:13 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2022, 01:34:33 PM
Pre-draft, are we better than anyone in the AFC besides the Texans and Jaguars (maybe)?
Patriots
Post by: Heismanberg on March 24, 2022, 02:02:39 PM
Pre-draft, are we better than anyone in the AFC besides the Texans and Jaguars (maybe)?
Patriots* and Steelers are in that bottom tier group with us too
Post by: bojanglesman on March 24, 2022, 02:03:47 PM
Patriots* and Steelers are in that bottom tier group with us tooPats are better than us. I don't want to admit it, but they will not finish with a worse record than us this year. Belichick's deal with the devil prohibits it.
Post by: MBGreen on March 24, 2022, 02:05:24 PM
Pre-draft, are we better than anyone in the AFC besides the Texans and Jaguars (maybe)?
We're in a rebuild?
Post by: Heismanberg on March 24, 2022, 02:10:07 PM
Pats are better than us.
Their roster is not. We should be able to beat them. They win because of coaching, especially lately. It's time for that to stop.
Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2022, 02:22:07 PM
Pats are better than us. I don't want to admit it, but they will not finish with a worse record than us this year. Belichick's deal with the devil prohibits it.
Their line is turd and their receivers are no better than ours. Mac Jones is a fat knobhead and without McDaniels that offense is going to fall apart.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 24, 2022, 03:07:12 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2022, 03:08:07 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 24, 2022, 03:15:38 PM
We are getting a wildcard.
One of these super teams is going to implode. Somebody in the AFCW is going to get wrecked by injuries (I’m guessing Denver for no logical reason), I think Matt Ryan’s isn’t enough to get the colts over the top.
This is how I see it playing out. Can we beat the Pats and watch Tua excrement his pants with all those weapons? Maybe. It all depends on Wilson. If he throws for 3,000 yards and 30 scores I think we can. If he throws for 2,200 yards and 12 TDS I think we are back in the basement praying for win 6 to celebrate
AFCS - 1 team
AFCN - 2 teams
AFCW - 2 teams
AFCE - 2 teams
Post by: bojanglesman on March 24, 2022, 03:46:37 PM
Their line is turd and their receivers are no better than ours. Mac Jones is a fat knobhead and without McDaniels that offense is going to fall apart.You may be right about everything there and still the Jets finish with a worse record than them. All that matters is the record. Better team doesn't always win.
Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2022, 03:47:50 PM
You may be right about everything there and still the Jets finish with a worse record than them. All that matters is the record. Better team doesn't always win.
I am, we won't, and this time we will.
I am not hearing negativity about this team in March. You can complain about it in October, if it's merited, and no earlier.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 24, 2022, 03:48:58 PM
I am, we won't, and this time we will.Fair enough, I'm as SOJF as it gets right now. I don't care if we sign 11 Randy Mosses in their prime.
I am not hearing negativity about this team in March. You can complain about it in October, if it's merited, and no earlier.
Post by: insanity on March 24, 2022, 04:14:08 PM
Fair enough, I'm as SOJF as it gets right now. I don't care if we sign 11 Randy Mosses in their prime.That would be a terrible team.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 24, 2022, 04:15:52 PM
I don't believe in playoff mandates, but we need to see tangible improvement. If it is another 4-13 season, he should be on the hot seat.
Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2022, 04:16:14 PM
That would be a terrible team.
Would be fun to watch Randy Moss sulking with Randy Moss for not throwing him the ball, all while Randy Moss is pissed at Randy Moss for not protecting him properly and give him time to throw downfield to Randy Moss, meaning he had no choice but to checkdown to Randy Moss who was tackled for a two yard loss and isn't happy about it.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 24, 2022, 04:19:02 PM
Would be fun to watch Randy Moss sulking with Randy Moss for not throwing him the ball, all while Randy Moss is pissed at Randy Moss for not protecting him properly and give him time to throw downfield to Randy Moss, meaning he had no choice but to checkdown to Randy Moss who was tackled for a two yard loss and isn't happy about it.You bet your sweet derriere Randy Moss would throw Randy Moss the damn ball.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 24, 2022, 04:20:08 PM
That would be a terrible team.You have 42 more players to fill out a roster. Moss can play WR, CB and S. Maybe bulk him up and play him TE. I think you could make that team work.
Post by: Badger on March 24, 2022, 04:39:40 PM
You have 42 more players to fill out a roster. Moss can play WR, CB and S. Maybe bulk him up and play him TE. I think you could make that team work.11x Randy, Santana, Sinorice, and Thaddeus
Post by: reuben on March 24, 2022, 04:44:04 PM
Post by: Cane on March 24, 2022, 04:45:56 PM
11x Randy, Santana, Sinorice, and ThaddeusCan’t forget legendary O-Lineman Zefross Moss.
Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2022, 04:50:01 PM
I don't know about the playoffs. A winning season seems like a reasonable goal.
9-8 won't be that far off. Lots of good teams in the conference means lots of teams taking wins off each other, it won't be a small number of teams laying waste to all before them and finishing with 14 and 15 wins.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on March 25, 2022, 07:13:26 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 25, 2022, 07:17:04 PM
With the AFC as pumped as it is, I really don't see us winning 9. 7 and improvement from Zach would satisfy me.
I agree, it seems unlikely we're winning 9. It's going to be 10, and a wildcard.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 25, 2022, 07:31:52 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 25, 2022, 07:33:02 PM
Not to be a pessimist but the playoffs are a pipe dream for us this year. There are 8 teams that are objectively better than us (Bills, Ravens, Bengals, Browns, Chiefs, Chargers, Broncos, and Raiders) and an argument for a few more. My hopes for this year are for Wilson to prove himself as a franchise quarterback and, hopefully, us bypassing the Pats and the Dolphins. 2023 and beyond should ultimately be our focus for making the playoffs and contending moving forward.
10 wins. Wildcard. freak you.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 25, 2022, 07:40:11 PM
10 wins. Wildcard. freak you.
There's nothing wrong with rooting for the playoffs. I just don't believe it's reasonable to expect or how we should measure our success this year.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 25, 2022, 07:41:34 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 25, 2022, 07:42:27 PM
There's nothing wrong with rooting for the playoffs. I just don't believe it's reasonable to expect or how we should measure our success this year.I'll wait till the offseason is over and the attrition of TC before I make any predictions.
Post by: Johnny English on March 25, 2022, 07:44:57 PM
There's nothing wrong with rooting for the playoffs. I just don't believe it's reasonable to expect or how we should measure our success this year.
I'm sorry, I appear to have stuttered and accidentally given you the impression that this was just some kind of wishy washy hope and not a definitive prediction. Just so we're really clear on this: we're finishing with 10 wins, a wildcard, and a freak you.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 25, 2022, 07:50:29 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 25, 2022, 07:51:09 PM
I'm sorry, I appear to have stuttered and accidentally given you the impression that this was just some kind of wishy washy hope and not a definitive prediction. Just so we're really clear on this: we're finishing with 10 wins, a wildcard, and a freak you.10 wins including the preseason, got it.
Post by: MBGreen on March 25, 2022, 07:51:30 PM
I'm sorry, I appear to have stuttered and accidentally given you the impression that this was just some kind of wishy washy hope and not a definitive prediction. Just so we're really clear on this: we're finishing with 10 wins, a wildcard, and a freak you.This post smells like vodka
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 25, 2022, 07:52:38 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 26, 2022, 12:19:47 AM
This post smells like vodkaThis post smells like some 7 and 9 bullshit. I'm not freaking going 7 and 9.
Post by: Miamipuck on March 26, 2022, 02:07:10 PM
This post smells like vodka
Vodka has no smell you moron.
Post by: MBGreen on March 26, 2022, 02:18:13 PM
Vodka has no smell you moron.
this post smells like B.O.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 26, 2022, 03:10:56 PM
This post smells like some 7 and 9 bullshit. I'm not freaking going 7 and 9.7-10 it is then.
Seriously....we should be competitive into December. I want to be mapping out playoff scenarios in Week 14 and 15. Playoffs should be the goal, even if that is unlikely, but at the very least, we should be on the periphery of the discussion. I just want to see our logo on playoff picture graphics in December.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 26, 2022, 05:20:11 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 26, 2022, 05:29:40 PM
We're more likely to be discussing scenarios landing the first overall pick than making the playoffs in DecemberEven I don't agree with that. There are some way shittier teams than us out there.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 26, 2022, 06:11:19 PM
We're more likely to be discussing scenarios landing the first overall pick than making the playoffs in December
If you said top 10 I’d agree with you but if we don’t win 6 games it’s because Zach is either a complete disaster or on IR
Post by: MBGreen on April 21, 2022, 10:37:14 AM
Quote
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
·
5m
Replying to
@RVacchianoSNY
Jets GM Joe Douglas said the expectation is all the players picked in the first three rounds (which will be 5 this year) should be starters.
It'll be an interesting test of that if he decides to go with a tackle in Round 1 since a starting job doesn't seem to be available there.
choose well, Joe. Those are lofty expectations after the 1st round.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 21, 2022, 11:22:25 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 21, 2022, 11:24:09 AM
choose well, Joe. Those are lofty expectations after the 1st round.
Quote
Eric Allen
@eallenjets
When asked about the Jets’ 4 picks in the top 38, Jets GM Joe Douglas says the expectation is they are going to be impact players.
‘In a perfect world, 1st-, 2nd- and 3rd-round picks are starters for you.’
Bit different when quoted directly. "In a perfect world" is not "the expectation".
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 21, 2022, 01:01:45 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 21, 2022, 01:29:24 PM
Can’t say that with a straight face when Denzel Mims and Jabari Zuniga existThose players have Gase stink on them...
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 21, 2022, 06:10:16 PM
Its like when we all loved Mangini's ability to build a team, and then when he got fired, we gave him all the blame for the Gholston pick.
Post by: reuben on April 26, 2022, 03:17:13 PM
Quote
[Yates] The Jets own the 10th, 38th and 111th overall pick in this year's draft just via the Jamal Adams and Sam Darnold trades. There's a chance to land 4 premium starters in the top 38. Sometimes I wonder if we talk enough about how awesome those trades were by GM Joe Douglas.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 26, 2022, 10:58:49 PM
I am begging you to look at this chart.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 26, 2022, 11:20:35 PM
Post by: insanity on April 26, 2022, 11:35:56 PM
Maccagnan was so badBut almost as good as ozzie
Post by: Libero_2 on April 27, 2022, 04:52:23 AM
Sometimes, that’s going to lead to epic fails, but when it works it’s going to give us a chance to find absolute studs
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 27, 2022, 11:01:30 AM
Clearly Douglas believes in athletic potential, and believes in his coaching staff to teach these guys to be outstanding players.Which is why the Jermaine Johnson talk at 4 is odd to me. Johnson is athletic, but he's old. That's more a Maccagnan pick.
Sometimes, that’s going to lead to epic fails, but when it works it’s going to give us a chance to find absolute studs
Post by: Badger on April 27, 2022, 11:06:05 AM
Which is why the Jermaine Johnson talk at 4 is odd to me. Johnson is athletic, but he's old. That's more a Maccagnan pick.I'm leaning on JD's leakproof track record and hoping it's just smoke.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 27, 2022, 11:34:44 AM
Johnson is athletic, but he's old.
Is 2 years that big of a deal? He'll still be 27/28 if he makes it to a second contract. Since when has worrying about things 10 years down the road on any player mattered in this day and age of free agency? If he were one of the Mormons coming back from a mission at 26 or something, maybe so.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 27, 2022, 11:37:11 AM
Is 2 years that big of a deal? He'll still be 27 if he makes it to a second contract. Since when has worrying about things 10 years down the road on any player mattered in this day and age of free agency? If he were one of the Mormons coming back from a mission at 26 or something, maybe so.Age always matters. Always better to be more productive when you're younger. When you're a 23-year old dominating 18-22 year olds, it might make you side-eye their production a little bit more. It doesn't mean JJ will bust or anything, but the younger guys can produce in college, the better. Has nothing to do with a 2nd contract.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 27, 2022, 11:46:41 AM
Is 2 years that big of a deal?
Yes
Post by: Laxin on April 27, 2022, 03:18:30 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 27, 2022, 03:48:30 PM
Maye was a 23 year old rookie. I’m sure if he was 21 when he was drafted, the outlook on getting a second contract would’ve been a lot better.Sure, that's only a small part of it though. You draft guys for the first contract. Second contract is a bonus, especially for this franchise. And Maye still got 3/$28.5M with $15M guaranteed after getting $10.6M last year on a franchise tag.
Remember when we drafted two safeties in the first 2 rounds? That was dumb.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 27, 2022, 06:41:35 PM
- Sauce is the top target at 4
- Ekwonu is a guy Douglas could not pass under any circumstances
- Thibodeaux both will and won’t be a NYJ at 4
- Drake London is the jets WR of choice at 10
- Bectons days as a jet are over, have to get a tackle early.
- Jets value speed above all at 10 and plan to take Williams despite the injury
- Jermaine Johnson is a virtual lock at 4
- Jets are worried they won’t get their wr choice at 10, so they will take “their guy” at 4
- Jets would “consider” Walker at 4 even if it’s unlikely we would take him.
- Saleh supposedly does think Kyle Hamilton is a unicorn and he is “absolutely” in play
- Douglas hopes to trade back from ten
- when in doubt Douglas will just go BPA even if it doesn’t really fit a need.
Nobody knows a damn thing. Even if one of these rumors ends up being more right than wrong, I don’t believe it’s because they know, it’s because enough people guessed enough things that could be true, so somebody had to guess right. Douglas has somehow generated so much smoke that no one has a clue what to expect.
While obviously not the most important skill, it’s definitely a skill the best GMs do seem to have in their back pockets.
Post by: Badger on April 27, 2022, 06:49:41 PM
Post by: Johnny English on April 27, 2022, 07:01:52 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 27, 2022, 07:03:23 PM
If you're giving Douglas credit for running a tight ship, I think you also have to give credit to Saleh. Most leaks (that aren't intended) will come from guys lower down the totem pole, if there are no leaks happening then it means the coaching staff are all locked in and on mission.
That’s a great point and the staff also deserves credit
Post by: dcm1602 on April 27, 2022, 07:04:42 PM
If you're giving Douglas credit for running a tight ship, I think you also have to give credit to Saleh. Most leaks (that aren't intended) will come from guys lower down the totem pole, if there are no leaks happening then it means the coaching staff are all locked in and on mission.
Could also mean that there's a disconnect from the coaching staff and management
Could also be because Manish is no longer taking pictures of little boys eating ice-cream
Post by: Johnny English on April 27, 2022, 07:07:06 PM
Could also mean that there's a disconnect from the coaching staff and management
Could also be because Manish is no longer taking pictures of little boys eating ice-cream
Only if you believe that Douglas isn't consulting the coaching staff on draft picks, and I don't think anyone sensibly thinks that.
And I'm very sure that Manish is still taking pictures of little boys eating ice cream, even if he's not doing it professionally any more.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 27, 2022, 07:42:54 PM
The man is a freaking wizard. Just in the past couple of days I have seen/heard/read reports of the followingAnything to smokescreen from the fact that the Jets are desperate for a receiver at 10.
- Sauce is the top target at 4
- Ekwonu is a guy Douglas could not pass under any circumstances
- Thibodeaux both will and won’t be a NYJ at 4
- Drake London is the jets WR of choice at 10
- Bectons days as a jet are over, have to get a tackle early.
- Jets value speed above all at 10 and plan to take Williams despite the injury
- Jermaine Johnson is a virtual lock at 4
- Jets are worried they won’t get their wr choice at 10, so they will take “their guy” at 4
- Jets would “consider” Walker at 4 even if it’s unlikely we would take him.
- Saleh supposedly does think Kyle Hamilton is a unicorn and he is “absolutely” in play
- Douglas hopes to trade back from ten
- when in doubt Douglas will just go BPA even if it doesn’t really fit a need.
Nobody knows a damn thing. Even if one of these rumors ends up being more right than wrong, I don’t believe it’s because they know, it’s because enough people guessed enough things that could be true, so somebody had to guess right. Douglas has somehow generated so much smoke that no one has a clue what to expect.
While obviously not the most important skill, it’s definitely a skill the best GMs do seem to have in their back pockets.
It's extremely telegraphed that the Jets want a wide receiver. That's the worst kept secret in the world.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 27, 2022, 08:16:42 PM
Anything to smokescreen from the fact that the Jets are desperate for a receiver at 10.
It's extremely telegraphed that the Jets want a wide receiver. That's the worst kept secret in the world.
I don't see this as a smokescreen scenario. The Jets tried trading for Hill and are interested in Deebo.
A smokescreen would be the Jets trying to get a DE to fall to them so they're trying to smokescreen someone to jumping up to 3 to go OL or something like that.
Post by: Badger on April 27, 2022, 10:03:54 PM
Post by: IATA on April 28, 2022, 07:48:40 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 28, 2022, 07:51:56 PM
Knee jerk time. If we don't walk away with deebo, huge failure.I keep forgetting about Deebo, I assume it's not possible.
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 10:09:46 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2022, 10:10:48 PM
Post by: Badger on April 28, 2022, 10:10:52 PM
Post by: Coach K on April 28, 2022, 10:12:16 PM
My BDE went off. JD is my telepathic dick twin and he just slapped it on the table so I felt it and had to report in .
Post by: Coach K on April 28, 2022, 10:13:00 PM
Post by: Coach K on April 28, 2022, 10:21:52 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2022, 10:22:57 PM
Jesus watches this draft and says " The Jets draft was nailed much harder than I ever was "
LMAFuckingOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: bojanglesman on April 28, 2022, 10:30:37 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 10:31:25 PM
Though you'd have to think with Detroit picking second and Jacksonville having the night to shop the pick, that can't be likely
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2022, 10:34:02 PM
If we someone manage to trade back our 2nd to a team who wants to come up and grab Malik Willis that would be a fantastic draft.
Though you'd have to think with Detroit picking second and Jacksonville having the night to shop the pick, that can't be likely
No one was picking Willis in the top 3
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2022, 10:34:41 PM
Never thought our 3rd pick in the first would be the one that made the night.It is though.
I love Sauce Gardner as a prospect, but I wanted the pass rusher.
Now, we get the edge rusher that we would have taken at 10 if we could have gotten a WR via trade.
A+ first round.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2022, 10:37:47 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1519883280207785985?s=20&t=F48YwODopzv5-CZzfI9Xbg (https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1519883280207785985?s=20&t=F48YwODopzv5-CZzfI9Xbg)
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 10:39:50 PM
No one was picking Willis in the top 3
Of the second round?
Post by: Laxin on April 28, 2022, 10:40:15 PM
Douglas says the Jets got 3 of their top 8.
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1519883280207785985?s=20&t=F48YwODopzv5-CZzfI9Xbg (https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1519883280207785985?s=20&t=F48YwODopzv5-CZzfI9Xbg)
Pretty much identical board to Daniel Jeremiah then.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2022, 10:40:23 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2022, 10:44:26 PM
Saleh said they called every team starting at 15-26 to move up for Johnson
I am very glad 15-25 turned them down.
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 28, 2022, 10:45:50 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2022, 10:47:05 PM
i get why everybody's happy about ending up with JJ at the end of the 1st, but imo the real MVP of the night is stukk the falcons drafting drake london at 8 for us. thank you so muchEh. I was fine with London, Williams or Wilson. All three had different strengths and negatives, and all three compliment Moore in different ways.
MVP is everyone for passing up Jermaine Johnson. And Joe Douglas for being patient.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 28, 2022, 10:56:04 PM
If we someone manage to trade back our 2nd to a team who wants to come up and grab Malik Willis that would be a fantastic draft.
Though you'd have to think with Detroit picking second and Jacksonville having the night to shop the pick, that can't be likely
33 is now Tampa Bay
34 is Minnesota
35 is Tennessee
36 is the Giants
37 is Houston
38 is Nakobe Dean
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 11:00:47 PM
33 is now Tampa Bay
34 is Minnesota
35 is Tennessee
36 is the Giants
37 is Houston
38 is Nakobe Dean
Oops website I was looking at showed the original picks.
Guess it's possible but probably not likely we end up shopping the pick to a team who wants to take a stab at a QB
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 11:02:49 PM
Douglas says the Jets got 3 of their top 8.
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1519883280207785985?s=20&t=F48YwODopzv5-CZzfI9Xbg (https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1519883280207785985?s=20&t=F48YwODopzv5-CZzfI9Xbg)
Thank you for hiring Joe Douglas, Adam Gase.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 28, 2022, 11:07:29 PM
Eh. I was fine with London, Williams or Wilson. All three had different strengths and negatives, and all three compliment Moore in different ways.He wasn't too patient, he called every team from 15-26 to trade for him.
MVP is everyone for passing up Jermaine Johnson. And Joe Douglas for being patient.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 28, 2022, 11:09:03 PM
He wasn't too patient, he called every team from 15-26 to trade for him.
He was obviously not about to over pay to go up and get him.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 11:09:14 PM
He wasn't too patient, he called every team from 15-26 to trade for him.
Well if he didn't be would be stupid
If a teams gonna gonna offer you a better pick for comparable value, gotta be doing your due diligence.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 28, 2022, 11:19:00 PM
On the fuckin clock!
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 28, 2022, 11:25:25 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1519892796777418758?t=VLQvixFll4_akV9AgXgNJw&s=19
On the fuckin clock!
My GM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 28, 2022, 11:28:10 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1519892796777418758?t=VLQvixFll4_akV9AgXgNJw&s=19
On the fuckin clock!
Thats going to be this years version of Saleh "Let's freaking Go Man" when we got AVT last year.
Post by: reuben on April 28, 2022, 11:42:40 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 11:43:22 PM
#Bzzz
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 12:16:20 AM
Post by: Coach K on April 29, 2022, 01:26:03 AM
I'm so happy we didn't draft Kyle Hamilton with 10This couldve been horribly botched
Thank god it wasn't.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2022, 07:01:50 AM
I'm so happy we didn't draft Kyle Hamilton with 10
I would have cried.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2022, 12:43:01 PM
Joe Douglas owned last night because of the JJ pick/trade. Some of that value was luck that no one took him up on his trade offers in the teens. Doesn't look as good if we had to trade up to 15 to get him. At 26? Awesome. But having the smarts to see the increasing value and keeping at it.....that pick was better than the first 2 from a management standpoint because it took effort.
I wonder if other teams were working the trade phones for him as hard at the same time.
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2022, 03:05:25 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2022, 03:06:33 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 29, 2022, 03:06:56 PM
Saw Cynthia Frelund say the Jets draft haul increased their win share more than any draft haul she has graded in over a decade.
Share that video?
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2022, 03:15:16 PM
Saw Cynthia Frelund say the Jets draft haul increased their win share more than any draft haul she has graded in over a decade.
i hope she said this in a bikini.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2022, 05:25:27 PM
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2022, 05:48:27 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 29, 2022, 06:16:58 PM
i hope she said this in a bikini.
lmfaoooo MB i hate you
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2022, 06:22:02 PM
https://twitter.com/tjmcneil05/status/1519812011328159747?t=FKUFlyhmKubg2ublifm0Yg&s=19
Alright, that's funny.
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2022, 06:42:25 PM
lmfaoooo MB i hate you(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220429/ae0a8cc551c6f21b1a2f5194aeafc12c.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2022, 06:58:56 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220429/fff684578cc8abdb3a00bd6c314b89f7.gif)
Post by: dcm1602 on April 29, 2022, 08:40:45 PM
Far as I can tell via the chart we can give up our next 2 picks to move up about 17 spots
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2022, 08:43:27 PM
Any chance JD trades up for Dean and officially wins the draft?We already won the draft
Far as I can tell via the chart we can give up our next 2 picks to move up about 17 spots
Post by: reuben on April 29, 2022, 08:50:15 PM
Quote
[Hughes] I once covered a #Jets offense that was led by Jermaine Kearse, Deontay Burnett, and the corpse of Matt Forte. Now? Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Garrett Wilson, Michael Carter, Breece Hall, C.J. Uzomah, Tyler Conklin. What a difference a Joe Douglas makes.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 29, 2022, 08:51:44 PM
Any chance JD trades up for Dean and officially wins the draft?
Far as I can tell via the chart we can give up our next 2 picks to move up about 17 spots
I’d go nuts. But unless he makes it to 90, I don’t see it, especially with the number of LBs available if he goes a few picks ahead of us.
I’d do it. But I just don’t see us going up the board again
Post by: dcm1602 on April 29, 2022, 08:55:42 PM
I’d go nuts. But unless he makes it to 90, I don’t see it, especially with the number of LBs available if he goes a few picks ahead of us.
I’d do it. But I just don’t see us going up the board again
Well if he makes it 10 more picks he's a viable trade up target
Post by: Libero_2 on April 29, 2022, 09:10:42 PM
Post by: Coach K on April 29, 2022, 09:11:57 PM
There's still a lot of talent regardless
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2022, 09:23:58 PM
We got Bryce Hall that way a few years ago. Didn't need to trade up, and we took a few scrubs like Perine and Morgan ahead of him.
Post by: insanity on April 30, 2022, 08:05:54 AM
1. So far this offseason he has upgraded 8 starters on our team. If becton and lawson come back healthy that would make upgrades at 10 starring positions.
2. He has set our qb up for success. I saw qb because if for some reason zach performs poorly (i dont think this will happen) we will know its zachs fault and we can plug in someone next year. A young qb or a vet should be able to be successful with this team
3. This guy is a motherfucking troll. I seriously think he laughs to himself after signing these guys
Michael Carter 1 and Michael Carter 2
Quincy Williams and quinnen Williams
Carl Lawson and Shaq lawson
Ashtyn Davis and jarred Davis
Zach wilson and Garrett wilson
Bryce hall and breece hall
Connor McGovern and Connor McDermott
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2022, 08:30:38 AM
I love Joe D for a few reasonsAssuming these are the 8 starter upgrades:
1. So far this offseason he has upgraded 8 starters on our team. If becton and lawson come back healthy that would make upgrades at 10 starring positions.
2. He has set our qb up for success. I saw qb because if for some reason zach performs poorly (i dont think this will happen) we will know its zachs fault and we can plug in someone next year. A young qb or a vet should be able to be successful with this team
3. This guy is a motherfucking troll. I seriously think he laughs to himself after signing these guys
Michael Carter 1 and Michael Carter 2
Quincy Williams and quinnen Williams
Carl Lawson and Shaq lawson
Ashtyn Davis and jarred Davis
Zach wilson and Garrett wilson
Bryce hall and breece hall
Connor McGovern and Connor McDermott
Reed
Whitehead
Tomlinson
Uzomah
Sauce
G Wilson
JJ
Breece
Impressive
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2022, 09:49:25 AM
Quote
ProFootballTalk
@ProFootballTalk
·
1m
The Jets reportedly made an offer for Deebo Samuel so low that it should have been regarded by the 49ers as an insult.
MyGM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2022, 11:36:01 AM
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2022, 11:59:48 AM
I'm pumped for the season.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 30, 2022, 12:04:07 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 30, 2022, 12:04:59 PM
Douglas needed a HR draft. I think that's exactly what he did. I feel he added enough talent on both sides of the ball. Zach got a few more weapons...a potential lock down corner, and the Dline/PassRush was fortified nicely.We just need to remember that if it all turns to excrement someday that we all loved it at the time and we suck too.
I'm pumped for the season.
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2022, 12:06:54 PM
Now that the draft is over... When are rookie OTAs? I can't wait to see this group on the freaking practice field in shorts and shellsMandatory OTAs are in june
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2022, 12:07:32 PM
We just need to remember that if it all turns to excrement someday that we all loved it at the time and we suck too.SOJF Bo FTW
Post by: bojanglesman on April 30, 2022, 12:26:08 PM
SOJF Bo FTWNot SOJF on this. Just a friendly reminder that almost every year we think drafted well, but when it turns to excrement we all suddenly forget and bash the GM like we didn't think it was good at the time. Hell, Most of us (me too) thought that Idzik 12 draft was ok at the time and found a way to talk ourselves into it. Once it became clear that it was awful, we washed our hands of the fact that we were wrong too.
I don't think this draft will turn to excrement, but if it does, I'll at least admit I thought it was great.
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2022, 12:29:23 PM
Not SOJF on this. Just a friendly reminder that almost every year we think drafted well, but when it turns to excrement we all suddenly forget and bash the GM like we didn't think it was good at the time. Hell, Most of us (me too) thought that Idzik 12 draft was ok at the time and found a way to talk ourselves into it. Once it became clear that it was awful, we washed our hands of the fact that we were wrong too.I trust this coaching staff and you know where I stand on Joe Douglas.
That's the difference for me in regards to prior years and their drafts.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 30, 2022, 12:30:32 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 30, 2022, 12:41:06 PM
I trust this coaching staff and you know where I stand on Joe Douglas.We liked Duff too at one point.
That's the difference for me in regards to prior years and their drafts.
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2022, 12:48:00 PM
We liked Duff too at one point.But I hated his coaching staffs
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 30, 2022, 01:18:01 PM
The only way I think this draft becomes a disaster is injuries. The propsects are too good and have too few red flags to all flame out. That to me is the difference between this draft and others. We didn't talk ourselves into why these guys are great, we were talking about why we hoped that we would pick them before the draft because of how good they are as players.Any draft can become a disaster, but when you have four picks in the top 36, odds are you hit on some guys. If we hit on all four, we are cooking with gas as DJ says.
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 30, 2022, 01:39:58 PM
That said, I'm a much bigger JD fan today than I was in January.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 30, 2022, 05:05:18 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 30, 2022, 05:09:06 PM
https://twitter.com/Zach2Elijah/status/1520274210576285696?t=Y2VirMMQ4S3QlvFcWUZ4qA&s=19
Jesus Q is only 24? Isn't Micheal Clemens 24?
Q still has lots of time to become an elite player. But hopefully we can see those strides this season
Post by: insanity on May 01, 2022, 06:38:43 AM
"We're on the freaking clock"
Post by: insanity on May 01, 2022, 07:25:14 AM
Post by: Badger on May 01, 2022, 08:49:26 AM
After this weekend we need to put some respect on JDs name and this thread title."How many JD boners have you popped this week?"
"We're on the freaking clock"
Post by: MBGreen on May 01, 2022, 08:53:40 AM
"How many JD boners have you popped this week?""JD's Boner Garage"
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 01, 2022, 01:35:58 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 01, 2022, 02:13:33 PM
Post by: Badger on May 02, 2022, 09:32:59 PM
https://youtu.be/-x07-ZWF_os
Post by: insanity on May 03, 2022, 09:12:22 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 03, 2022, 10:12:46 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CdD5mdQOUPY/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
I really like this draft.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 04, 2022, 06:01:45 AM
16 minute love fest with Eisen and JD
https://youtu.be/-x07-ZWF_os
Did JD say they had Breece Hall 18th on their board?
4 top 20 players? Not a bad day at the office
Post by: MBGreen on May 04, 2022, 09:20:05 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 04, 2022, 12:11:10 PM
Post by: MBGreen on May 04, 2022, 01:02:45 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1521637227192668160
this was literally posted right before your post
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 04, 2022, 01:10:58 PM
this was literally posted right before your postClearly, I don't read your posts.
(my bad)
Post by: MBGreen on May 04, 2022, 01:14:38 PM
Clearly, I don't read your posts.
(my bad)
tsk tsk
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 10, 2022, 11:18:43 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 10, 2022, 11:18:50 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 10, 2022, 11:19:28 AM
this was literally posted right before your post
Lolstadium posts should not be taken seriously
Post by: MBGreen on May 10, 2022, 12:23:06 PM
For the record MB is the one that wants to bang JD, not meLiar
Post by: dcm1602 on May 10, 2022, 02:51:57 PM
https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/status/1524044611131518977?s=21&t=2Oi6zC0fyl9JUwLb1SwCrw
Judging by the two lists, is it not unreasonable to just conclude that the teams with the most dead cap space are most likely just clearing cap space for the future? Especially if they suck
More so than jerking off anyone's GM
Post by: casman02 on June 20, 2022, 08:33:06 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 20, 2022, 10:15:03 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 20, 2022, 10:19:23 PM
This guy hasn’t done excrement in over a month
Bust. Fire his derriere.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 04, 2022, 12:07:43 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2022, 03:09:25 PM
That's fine, and that's why Joe gets a free pass for the first few years. Now that he's used all the draft picks he's traded for, I want to see them be competitive. No playoff mandate, but let's win some damn games.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2022, 03:32:38 PM
https://twitter.com/Willpa11/status/1569416942481547264
That's fine, and that's why Joe gets a free pass for the first few years. Now that he's used all the draft picks he's traded for, I want to see them be competitive. No playoff mandate, but let's win some damn games.
We're going to get better as the young players develop. We've played one game and his most two most important draft picks are hurt.
Gardner, Wilson, Johnson, and Hall all made plays yesterday. That's more than we can say about the past several years of draft classes. I think we'll start to hang with these teams the further we get into the season. As long as we get better as we go, that's really all that matters to me.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2022, 03:59:50 PM
We're going to get better as the young players develop. We've played one game and his most two most important draft picks are hurt.I agree. I support Douglas. I just think results start to matter this season. It's a very young team and our win total is 5.5, so I'm not expecting a playoff season. But I want to be playing relevant games in November and hopefully December. I want to be competitive. I want to win a division game.
Gardner, Wilson, Johnson, and Hall all made plays yesterday. That's more than we can say about the past several years of draft classes. I think we'll start to hang with these teams the further we get into the season. As long as we get better as we go, that's really all that matters to me.
And I don't want to see a 15-point home loss be shrugged off as if it doesn't matter anymore.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2022, 04:07:32 PM
And I don't want to see a 15-point home loss be shrugged off as if it doesn't matter anymore.
I wouldn't say anyone shrugged it off. It's just easily explainable.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2022, 04:23:54 PM
https://twitter.com/Willpa11/status/1569416942481547264It's also kind of funny that we're calling 2019 an expansion team when we won more games that season than the next 2+ seasons combined.
That's fine, and that's why Joe gets a free pass for the first few years. Now that he's used all the draft picks he's traded for, I want to see them be competitive. No playoff mandate, but let's win some damn games.
Post by: MBGreen on September 18, 2022, 04:42:59 PM
just gonna put this here...for the next time someone brings up Douglas and his drafting.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 18, 2022, 04:52:46 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 18, 2022, 04:55:34 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 18, 2022, 04:56:36 PM
Sauce had a tough time with Cooper. That's OK, lots of way more experienced DBs have struggled and will struggle with him. But it was a big learning curve for him today, I think.
He'll have fun with Chase next week. I expect him to rise to the challenge.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 18, 2022, 05:13:29 PM
He'll have fun with Chase next week. I expect him to rise to the challenge.
Not sure if this Dallas defense is elite, but the Cincinnati offense looks like absolute complete freaking garbage
They have to be in the conversation for one of the absolute worst OL in the league
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 18, 2022, 05:14:55 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 18, 2022, 05:19:28 PM
The AFC North in general is overrated.
I didn't see the game but my bud says that without Watt the Steelers were pretty toothless.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 18, 2022, 05:21:51 PM
I didn't see the game but my bud says that without Watt the Steelers were pretty toothless.The Ravens blew a huge lead today to Miami at home.
The Steelers are not good without Watt.
The Browns are mediocre without Watson.
The Bengals are losing to the Cowboys and lost to the aforementioned Steelers.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 18, 2022, 05:48:51 PM
I didn't see the game but my bud says that without Watt the Steelers were pretty toothless.
irrespective of how mediocre the steelers are from a talent perspective, i'm convinced mike tomlin will always figure out a way to keep them competitive
Post by: Heismanberg on September 18, 2022, 05:59:00 PM
irrespective of how mediocre the steelers are from a talent perspective, i'm convinced mike tomlin will always figure out a way to keep them competitive
He bought the entire team Black Forces
They will compete
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2022, 06:09:26 PM
The slander can stop going fwd.
Post by: Johnny English on October 10, 2022, 06:20:50 PM
https://twitter.com/OptimisticJets/status/1579566615628517376?t=USBZmRh3ExibqLNLf0Amdw&s=19
The slander can stop going fwd.
If he can get someone to do the free agency thing for him he'll be perfect.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2022, 06:22:33 PM
If he can get someone to do the free agency thing for him he'll be perfect.
We obviously need to see the season play out, but Uzomah and Tomlinson have definitely had a positive impact on the culture. Tomlinson will hopefully get better as the season goes.
DJ Reed was a hell of a signing. Kwon too.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 10, 2022, 09:46:27 PM
Post by: Laxin on October 10, 2022, 10:41:23 PM
https://twitter.com/OptimisticJets/status/1579566615628517376?t=USBZmRh3ExibqLNLf0Amdw&s=19
The slander can stop going fwd.
Potentially 4 future/current pro bowl caliber players in 2 years (AVT, Sauce, Wilson, Hall), a hopeful franchise QB and 8-9 total starters at the moment.
Could potentially have OROTY and DROTY
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 10, 2022, 11:58:23 PM
https://twitter.com/OptimisticJets/status/1579566615628517376?t=USBZmRh3ExibqLNLf0Amdw&s=19Zach still needs to be the guy for this to fully work. But Douglas has built enough of an infrastructure around the QB where we can win without elite QB play. If the young players keep developing at a high rate AND Zach is the guy, this team could be really scary from 2023-25 and hopefully beyond.
The slander can stop going fwd.
This was the year this team needed to show progress, and it's starting to unfold.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 11, 2022, 01:06:53 AM
Potentially 4 future/current pro bowl caliber players in 2 years (AVT, Sauce, Wilson, Hall), a hopeful franchise QB and 8-9 total starters at the moment.
Could potentially have OROTY and DROTY
Numbers are skewed because of the game against Miami, but Carl Lawson is now 2nd in the NFL in QB hits.
I'm not confident in saying that he's probowl caliber, but when you're on a list between a Bosa and Micah Parsons that's usually a promising sign
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 11, 2022, 11:26:16 AM
Numbers are skewed because of the game against Miami, but Carl Lawson is now 2nd in the NFL in QB hits.Lawson has always rated high in pressures and QB hits. Those didn't translate to a ton of sacks in Cincy. Part of the goal in signing him was that he would turn these pressures into sacks. That hasn't happened yet, but he's clearly getting better each week.
I'm not confident in saying that he's probowl caliber, but when you're on a list between a Bosa and Micah Parsons that's usually a promising sign
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 16, 2022, 04:18:04 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 16, 2022, 04:26:56 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 16, 2022, 04:33:13 PM
we love sauce but even when he went out for a few plays, i felt very comfortable with trotting guys like echols, MCII (or bryce hall when available) out there and staying competitive
our weakest unit is undeniably our LBs and even then his pickups were out there making plays (quincy, kwon)
he has done a very good job with building up the depth of this squad very quickly
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 16, 2022, 04:39:24 PM
we lost like 7 starting OL and he was still able to draft/sign enough depth to make the line serviceableSaw something on Twitter the other day that Rachad Wildgoose gets actual playing time for Washington. He had no chance to make our roster.
we love sauce but even when he went out for a few plays, i felt very comfortable with trotting guys like echols, MCII (or bryce hall when available) out there and staying competitive
our weakest unit is undeniably our LBs and even then his pickups were out there making plays (quincy, kwon)
he has done a very good job with building up the depth of this squad very quickly
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on October 16, 2022, 04:39:30 PM
our weakest unit is undeniably our LBs and even then his pickups were out there making plays (quincy, kwon)
Alexander has been one of the best pickups of the offseason, especially considering that he was signed in late July, early August. It seems #3 is on the screen constantly making plays.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 16, 2022, 04:43:12 PM
It seems #3 is on the screen constantly making plays.
That's Jordan Whitehead
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on October 16, 2022, 04:44:50 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 16, 2022, 04:45:47 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 16, 2022, 05:07:48 PM
Douglas has done enough with the rest of the roster where he might be able to survive if Zach is a bust.Douglas is on pace to win executive of the year
Post by: Johnny English on October 16, 2022, 06:10:46 PM
we lost like 7 starting OL and he was still able to draft/sign enough depth to make the line serviceable
we love sauce but even when he went out for a few plays, i felt very comfortable with trotting guys like echols, MCII (or bryce hall when available) out there and staying competitive
our weakest unit is undeniably our LBs and even then his pickups were out there making plays (quincy, kwon)
he has done a very good job with building up the depth of this squad very quickly
Echols made a couple of very good plays while Sauce was out.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 16, 2022, 06:13:10 PM
CJ Mosley is showing some personality lately too.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 16, 2022, 07:14:02 PM
Echols made a couple of very good plays while Sauce was out.
he's already hit way above draft-slot value for guys like echols, MCII, hall
i had the same hopes for pinnock but he ultimately became a numbers crunch casualty, and our staff liked parks more
out of that draft, i'm still hoping our safety converts in sherwood and hamsah can make something of themselves in the LB room. that would be awesome.
if we stay competitive through the deadline but still find ourselves having trouble with covering TEs or tackling RBs at the second level, i wouldn't be surprised if douglas made a move for a linebacker if available.
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 06:48:33 PM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1584692373925552128?t=nm1kN4itQ-dc1jO_T0hRtw&s=19
Post by: MBGreen on October 25, 2022, 09:46:55 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on October 25, 2022, 09:51:15 AM
Schefter hinted on ESPN that Douglas might not be done...the Jets are looking at Laremy Tunsil and Jack Conklin too.
I saw that.
I just don't know how we fit them in to our cap situation. Conklin given the situation (Browns are 2-5, lacking in draft choices) might actually be attainable at a decent rental price. If only the freaking guy chose to come here during his free agency.
I can't imagine Tunsil not costing a ton unless Moore is actually on the table and highly valued by Houston.
Post by: MBGreen on October 25, 2022, 10:02:58 AM
I saw that.
I just don't know how we fit them in to our cap situation. Conklin given the situation (Browns are 2-5, lacking in draft choices) might actually be attainable at a decent rental price. If only the freaking guy chose to come here during his free agency.
I can't imagine Tunsil not costing a ton unless Moore is actually on the table and highly valued by Houston.
if we trade for Tunsil, Becton is probably done here.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2022, 10:06:44 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 25, 2022, 12:37:09 PM
if we trade for Tunsil, Becton is probably done here.
I can’t even imagine what we would have to pay for Tunsil. I also have no idea how our line would be configured. Would we bench Brown? Move him or Tunsil to the right?
Fun random scenario that I don’t think is possible, Fant + draft picks for Tunsil. I have to imagine it would be unlikely we bring Fant back at a price he wants this offseason. So Texans get a starting caliber tackle on a rental that they can get through the season with and draft capital to help rebuild their team long term. Jets pick up additional salary and a long term LT.
It won’t happen because Fant is still hurt, and is a captain on this team. I doubt JD would make that deal even if he could. But it sure would be interesting to me to see us pull it off.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2022, 12:39:31 PM
I can’t even imagine what we would have to pay for Tunsil. I also have no idea how our line would be configured. Would we bench Brown? Move him or Tunsil to the right?I think either Becton or Mitchell would have more value to a rebuilding team than Fant, and one of them can be expendable in the right deal, especially Becton.
Fun random scenario that I don’t think is possible, Fant + draft picks for Tunsil. I have to imagine it would be unlikely we bring Fant back at a price he wants this offseason. So Texans get a starting caliber tackle on a rental that they can get through the season with and draft capital to help rebuild their team long term. Jets pick up additional salary and a long term LT.
It won’t happen because Fant is still hurt, and is a captain on this team. I doubt JD would make that deal even if he could. But it sure would be interesting to me to see us pull it off.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 25, 2022, 12:44:21 PM
I think either Becton or Mitchell would have more value to a rebuilding team than Fant, and one of them can be expendable in the right deal, especially Becton.
I don’t disagree with your point. But no one is trading for Mekhi while he’s injured right now. I’m not even sure we are allowed to trade a guy on IR
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2022, 12:47:26 PM
I don’t disagree with your point. But no one is trading for Mekhi while he’s injured right now. I’m not even sure we are allowed to trade a guy on IRI think you're right actually. I thought they changed the rules to allow IR trades, but I think it's only post-Sept. 1 IR guys.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2022, 01:02:00 PM
I think either Becton or Mitchell would have more value to a rebuilding team than Fant, and one of them can be expendable in the right deal, especially Becton.
In terms of the offensive line, we are going to be a rebuilding team next year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 25, 2022, 01:35:31 PM
In terms of the offensive line, we are going to be a rebuilding team next year.I assume the most likely scenario is Becton and Mitchell competing on one side, and Brown and another draft pick competing on the other. But a lot can change between now and April. There's a chance both starting OTs currently aren't on the roster.
And then there's the wildcard of AVT. I think he's more likely to be a guard than a tackle because that's probably his best position, but Herbig now gets an extended look at guard. If he's good, then maybe AVT becomes a tackle next year.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2022, 02:03:26 PM
I assume the most likely scenario is Becton and Mitchell competing on one side, and Brown and another draft pick competing on the other. But a lot can change between now and April. There's a chance both starting OTs currently aren't on the roster.
And then there's the wildcard of AVT. I think he's more likely to be a guard than a tackle because that's probably his best position, but Herbig now gets an extended look at guard. If he's good, then maybe AVT becomes a tackle next year.
McGovern is also a FA next season, Duane Brown will be 38, and Lankin has been a disappointment in pass pro. I don't think AVT is going to struggle coming back from a triceps tear but who knows where he's going to be.
It's conceivable that none of the players listed as starters prior to game 1 will be returning to those positions.
Post by: MBGreen on October 25, 2022, 02:15:50 PM
McGovern is also a UDFA next season, Duane Brown will be 38, and Lankin has been a disappointment in pass pro. I don't think AVT is going to struggle coming back from a triceps tear but who knows where he's going to be.
It's conceivable that none of the players listed as starters prior to game 1 will be returning to those positions.
UFA*
McGovern was already drafted.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 25, 2022, 02:16:10 PM
UFA*
McGovern was already drafted.
Yea, you right. I was thinking "unrestricted free agent" then wrote the completely wrong thing.
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2022, 08:03:30 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 08:31:37 AM
Happy trade deadline day
Does he have enough magic left on that bald head to execute one more trade beauty?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 08:34:05 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 01, 2022, 08:53:26 AM
Let's trade for another OT so MLF can just put him in 5 plays
FYP
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 08:53:38 AM
Let's trade for another OT so we can cut 5 of them in the offseason.
maybe we can use spare parts from each of them in the offseason, and build a Center for next season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 09:05:16 AM
maybe we can use spare parts from each of them in the offseason, and build a Center for next season.
The offensive line is going to look very different next season. Fant and McGovern are both up at the end of the year.
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2022, 09:11:46 AM
The offensive line is going to look very different next season. Fant and McGovern are both up at the end of the year.
Fant is probably done here...he didn't seem too enthused about being moved around the oline like a chess piece.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 09:14:02 AM
Fant is probably done here...he didn't seem too enthused about being moved around the oline like a chess piece.
Saleh said both Mitchell and Fant will be back after the bye week. Curious to see who gets the nod to start or if they are going to split first team reps early in the week.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2022, 01:44:32 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Was wondering if Moore would be dealt after his lack of playing time this week. Saleh/LaFleur, Douglas, and Moore need to get on the same page. If we aren't trading Moore, then we need to find a way to make it work because if we don't, then we'll be selling Moore for even less in 6 months.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2022, 04:01:45 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 01, 2022, 04:08:51 PM
We need to start giving Moore the ball on pop passes and sweeps.
MLF says GFY
he'll hardly be used and like it
Post by: reuben on November 06, 2022, 03:50:55 PM
Guess who good? Nate Herbig good.
Post by: MBGreen on November 06, 2022, 06:26:03 PM
Never a doubt
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 06, 2022, 09:29:08 PM
While all the world was washing his balls after a stellar draft, while he could have rested on his laurels after drafting/signing two quality guards in as many years, this sneaky lover of the older lady went out and plucked Nate Herbig out of the ether.
Guess who good? Nate Herbig good.
Too bad Og is not good, but yeah.
I can't commend him on the job he has done on the OL enough. The amount of injuries we have had to put up with is just unfortunate. but the depth we have is salivating as it currently stands, and sets up some interesting scenarios this upcoming offseason.
We are legitimately 5 starters deep at OT in AVT, Fant, Brown, Mitchell, Becton.
you have to think that because of that, despite how solid fant has been for us, we let him walk after this year.
AVT is our best OL. he has flashed great potential both at LG/RG and at LT/RT. what do we do with him? assuming everybody is healthy, do we stick him back at OG?
I have a feeling we go with a 'play the best players at tackle' philosophy, and we keep him there. that's one spot.
also, maybe we feel comfortable with moving AVT to OT as, in theory, finding starter/quality depth at OG may require less draft capital / money than at OT.
who gets the other OT spot? brown has had his good and bad moments thus far, but with an offseason and more time to rest/recuperate his injuries this upcoming offseason, i can imagine there is a good shot he holds down the other spot (LT).
that leaves becton and mitchell as starter quality backups at tackle to try and fight for spots. Laken stays at LG, and i think we can re-sign mcgovern if JD wants to keep him.
i wonder if either becton or mitchell can slide inside for us at RG? ultimately i think JD tries to find us a guy via FA/the draft, but would be cool if we had that guy on the roster already
i feel good about JD and trust whatever he thinks/does regarding the line this upcoming offseason
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2022, 10:31:28 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on November 06, 2022, 11:12:47 PM
Too bad Og is not good, but yeah.
I can't commend him on the job he has done on the OL enough. The amount of injuries we have had to put up with is just unfortunate. but the depth we have is salivating as it currently stands, and sets up some interesting scenarios this upcoming offseason.
We are legitimately 5 starters deep at OT in AVT, Fant, Brown, Mitchell, Becton.
you have to think that because of that, despite how solid fant has been for us, we let him walk after this year.
AVT is our best OL. he has flashed great potential both at LG/RG and at LT/RT. what do we do with him? assuming everybody is healthy, do we stick him back at OG?
I have a feeling we go with a 'play the best players at tackle' philosophy, and we keep him there. that's one spot.
also, maybe we feel comfortable with moving AVT to OT as, in theory, finding starter/quality depth at OG may require less draft capital / money than at OT.
who gets the other OT spot? brown has had his good and bad moments thus far, but with an offseason and more time to rest/recuperate his injuries this upcoming offseason, i can imagine there is a good shot he holds down the other spot (LT).
that leaves becton and mitchell as starter quality backups at tackle to try and fight for spots. Laken stays at LG, and i think we can re-sign mcgovern if JD wants to keep him.
i wonder if either becton or mitchell can slide inside for us at RG? ultimately i think JD tries to find us a guy via FA/the draft, but would be cool if we had that guy on the roster already
i feel good about JD and trust whatever he thinks/does regarding the line this upcoming offseason
I think the emergence of Herbig makes a plan to keep AVT at right tackle going into next year very viable.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2022, 11:22:28 PM
I think the emergence of Herbig makes a plan to keep AVT at right tackle going into next year very viable.I don't think that should be Plan A. AVT is an elite guard. He's a good tackle. Maybe he could develop into an elite tackle, but I think Plan A should be to keep him at guard. If you want the OL backup plan to move him out to OT and start Herbig, fine.
One scenario could be to keep Herbig, save $8.8M by cutting Tomlinson, and reinvesting that money elsewhere, perhaps tackle.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2022, 06:44:42 AM
Post by: Badger on November 07, 2022, 06:55:07 AM
Edit: Spotrac suggests a possible out in 2023 but it would cause $8M in dead cap, which seems like a terrible idea. That figure drops to $4M in 2024, so the savings might be worth it at that point.
Of course the best case scenario is that he starts playing up to the level at which he's being paid...
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2022, 07:10:46 AM
This administration is too vet-friendly to cut Tomlinson in 2023.
Edit: Spotrac suggests a possible out in 2023 but it would cause $8M in dead cap, which seems like a terrible idea. That figure drops to $4M in 2024, so the savings might be worth it at that point.
Of course the best case scenario is that he starts playing up to the level at which he's being paid...
$8mil in dead cap vs. $17mil cap hit if he's on the roster.
I'm not advocating for it, just seems more likely than throwing another name into the OT roulette next season.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2022, 08:14:46 AM
Brown - Tomlinson - McGovern - Herbig - AVT
We need to add more quality depth inside and draft another tackle prospect in the first two rounds
Post by: Johnny English on November 07, 2022, 08:17:48 AM
We don't need to create holes just to save cap space. We're competitive now, even with the patched up OL.
Brown - Tomlinson - McGovern - Herbig - AVT
We need to add more quality depth inside and draft another tackle prospect in the first two rounds
We have Mitchell and Becton as tackle prospects / backups (Becton still doesn't have enough playing time banked to be considered anything more than that). Have to assume that Fant will be allowed to walk.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2022, 08:21:28 AM
We have Mitchell and Becton as tackle prospects / backups (Becton still doesn't have enough playing time banked to be considered anything more than that). Have to assume that Fant will be allowed to walk.
I think Max Mitchell is a good right tackle backup that can start in a pinch. We need someone to take over left tackle when Brown is done.
Mekhi Becton is undependable because of his injuries. We have to get younger and healthier at LT.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 07, 2022, 08:22:37 AM
Post by: Johnny English on November 07, 2022, 08:23:13 AM
I think Max Mitchell is a good right tackle backup that can start in a pinch. We need someone to take over left tackle when Brown is done.
Mekhi Becton is undependable because of his injuries. We have to get younger and healthier at LT.
I agree, but I assumed given you had AVT in there that you were proposing Brown be retained next season.
It might be that AVT switches to the left and Mitchell becomes the starter on the right.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2022, 08:26:55 AM
I agree, but I assumed given you had AVT in there that you were proposing Brown be retained next season.
It might be that AVT switches to the left and Mitchell becomes the starter on the right.
THat's a possibility but even if that's the projected lineup, we need to add a quality tackle in free agency or the draft.
Brown should be back next year if he wants to play. I think it's really up to him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2022, 08:45:40 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 11:31:28 PM
7-8 this season is fine but he has been here 3.5 years.
2020 offseason: bad draft, not much in FA
2021 draft: lots of picks but not much outside of AVT right now. FA picks haven't hit.
2022: great offseason for sure
I like what he has done in trades. But are we sure he has done a great job? I like to talk playoffs because I want to be optimistic. But this is more likely 7-10 than playoffs.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:32:26 PM
Probably should change this thread title too.
7-8 this season is fine but he has been here 3.5 years.
2020 offseason: bad draft, not much in FA
2021 draft: lots of picks but not much outside of AVT right now. FA picks haven't hit.
2022: great offseason for sure
I like what he has done in trades. But are we sure he has done a great job? I like to talk playoffs because I want to be optimistic. But this is more likely 7-10 than playoffs.
I look at our past 2 GMs....and i think Joe can stick around awhile longer.
Post by: Jumbo on December 22, 2022, 11:35:34 PM
I look at our past 2 GMs....and i think Joe can stick around awhile longer.
If the bar is 2 of the worst GMs in NFL history results wise then that's sad
That said, I don't really see a reason to even have him on the hot seat. He missed on the QB, which is bad, but I think is acceptable as long as the rest of the moves add up. JD passes that hurdle imo, the team looks to have some nice talent and would be much better without long-term injuries to arguably three of our top five most talented players on offense.
But if he doesn't solve the QB soon the seat will heat up. Even if it's a temporary move.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:36:07 PM
If the bar is 2 of the worst GMs in NFL history results wise then that's sad
That said, I don't really see a reason to even have him on the hot seat. He missed on the QB, which is bad, but I think is acceptable as long as the rest of the moves add up. JD passes that hurdle imo, the team looks to have some nice talent and would be much better without long-term injuries to arguably three of our top five most talented players on offense.
But if he doesn't solve the QB soon the seat will heat up. Even if it's a temporary move.
Who are you bringing in to replace him?
Woody is back now...the last time he hired a GM, he needed Korn Ferry because he has no idea what he's doing. And we ended up with Idzik as a result.
I'm not saying your wrong, missing on Zach is a huge kick to JD's nuts.
Post by: Jumbo on December 22, 2022, 11:37:34 PM
Who are you bringing in to replace him?
Pretending I know who the best candidates are to be GM would be even worse than pretending I know who the best candidates are to be HC
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 11:38:37 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 22, 2022, 11:39:07 PM
Who are you bringing in to replace him?
Woody is back now...the last time he hired a GM, he needed Korn Ferry because he has no idea what he's doing. And we ended up with Idzik as a result.
I'm not saying your wrong, missing on Zach is a huge kick to JD's nuts.
Probably any one of the hundreds of FO execs whose name we aren’t familiar with yet.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:39:14 PM
Pretending I know who the best candidates are to be GM would be even worse than pretending I know who the best candidates are to be HC
We're all in that same boat.
But we have to be careful what we wish for...in this case.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:39:53 PM
Probably any one of the hundreds of FO execs whose name we aren’t familiar with yet.
why aren't you familiar with them?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 11:40:44 PM
why aren't you familiar with them?How the hell is a fan supposed to know who a good GM hire would be?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 22, 2022, 11:41:46 PM
George Fant
Laken Tomlinson
These are bad signings. Carl Lawson hasn’t lived up to his contract either.
DJ Reed is one of the best signings we’ve ever had. Too bad it’s on the defensive side of the football.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 11:43:35 PM
Corey DavisThe 2022 offseason looks great.
George Fant
Laken Tomlinson
These are bad signings. Carl Lawson hasn’t lived up to his contract either.
DJ Reed is one of the best signings we’ve ever had. Too bad it’s on the defensive side of the football.
Every other offseason looks really rough outside of the Adams trade, which is such a good trade it buys him time.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:44:35 PM
How the hell is a fan supposed to know who a good GM hire would be?
nobody here realistically WOULD know (including myself)...but it's not hard to research candidates and their histories. I had a good feeling about Joe Douglas given his pedigree on who he's worked with in the past, who he's learned under. It's not 100% accurate, but it'll give you a general idea.
It's not splitting atoms.
Post by: Jumbo on December 22, 2022, 11:45:44 PM
Corey Davis
George Fant
Laken Tomlinson
These are bad signings. Carl Lawson hasn’t lived up to his contract either.
DJ Reed is one of the best signings we’ve ever had. Too bad it’s on the defensive side of the football.
Lawson I'm willing to forgive, the achilles injury in the first preseason is brutal and unforeseeable. Every GM will have bad signings in FA due to the nature of overpayment in FA. The signings like Reed certainly help balance it out. CD is overpaid and Tomlinson is probably the biggest disaster, Fant I think worked out alright, gave us 1.5 good seasons at a decent price.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 22, 2022, 11:46:23 PM
nobody here realistically WOULD know (including myself)...but it's not hard to research candidates and their histories. I had a good feeling about Joe Douglas given his pedigree on who he's worked with in the past, who he's learned under. It's not 100% accurate, but it'll give you a general idea.
It's not splitting atoms.
OK start researching, then. You’re the one asking about them.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:47:23 PM
OK start researching, then. You’re the one asking about them.
I'm not the one ready to replace Joe Douglas...so why would i start researching?
you're batting a 1.000 tonight, eh Cato.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 11:48:48 PM
I'm not the one ready to replace Joe Douglas...so why would i start researching?Nobody is. But overall, he has been an average GM.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:49:54 PM
Nobody is. But overall, he has been an average GM.
And i'll take average over hot garbage like we've had between Tanny up until and including Maccagnan
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 22, 2022, 11:50:57 PM
Lawson I'm willing to forgive, the achilles injury in the first preseason is brutal and unforeseeable. Every GM will have bad signings in FA due to the nature of overpayment in FA. The signings like Reed certainly help balance it out. CD is overpaid and Tomlinson is probably the biggest disaster, Fant I think worked out alright, gave us 1.5 good seasons at a decent price.
Fant was supposed to be a low risk signing who had a weird up swing when filling in for Becton after his first injury. He looked good at just the right time for the Jets to stay invested in him.
Davis has been inconsistent, not someone to build the team WR corps around.
Tomlinson just flat out sucks. Huge miss.
Part of his problem was trying to attract talent coming off of the Gase seasons. Hopefully he can pull in better players after the improvement that the team went through this season. If not then we know we have a problem in the front office.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 22, 2022, 11:52:37 PM
I'm not the one ready to replace Joe Douglas...so why would i start researching?
you're batting a 1.000 tonight, eh Cato.
You literally asked about this when Jumbo said he’d expect Douglas to be in the hot seat if the team took a down turn next season. What was even your point of asking that question?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 11:52:58 PM
And i'll take average over hot garbage like we've had between Tanny up until and including MaccagnanYep. That was one of my arguments with MLF, though he is clearly worse at his job than Douglas.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:53:26 PM
Fant was supposed to be a low risk signing who had a weird up swing when filling in for Becton after his first injury. He looked good at just the right time for the Jets to stay invested in him.
Davis has been inconsistent, not someone to build the team WR corps around.
Tomlinson just flat out sucks. Huge miss.
Part of his problem was trying to attract talent coming off of the Gase seasons. Hopefully he can pull in better players after the improvement that the team went through this season. If not then we know we have a problem in the front office.
it's going to be a grind to attract FAs again....because we're back to square one with no solution at QB.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:54:16 PM
Yep. That was one of my arguments with MLF, though he is clearly worse at his job than Douglas.
i actually think JD is above average, because i'm trying to pick my battles with you. :)
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 11:55:55 PM
i actually think JD is above average, because i'm trying to pick my battles with you. :)I like to think he is too. The 2022 offseason was brilliant and it was set up by a brilliant trade.
But the overall results and resume has been average.
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:58:38 PM
You literally asked about this when Jumbo said he’d expect Douglas to be in the hot seat if the team took a down turn next season. What was even your point of asking that question?
He suggested that JD was on the hot seat. He didn't want him fired, but it could happen.
I asked who he wanted to replace him with. I was curious. Because i believe there isn't much better out there.
This wasnt difficult to understand
Where's the disconnect with you on this.... Are you drunk from the game?
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2022, 11:59:18 PM
I like to think he is too. The 2022 offseason was brilliant and it was set up by a brilliant trade.
But the overall results and resume has been average.
It's tough overcoming the Jets curse.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 12:01:24 AM
He suggested that JD was on the hot seat. He didn't want him fired, but it could happen.It is impossible for a fan to come up with reasonable GM candidates.
I asked who he wanted to replace him with. I was curious.
This wasnt difficult to understand
Where's the disconnect with you on this.... Are you drunk from the game?
My whole point is that Douglas' career has been more flaccid than the thread title suggests.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 12:07:44 AM
It is impossible for a fan to come up with reasonable GM candidates.
My whole point is that Douglas' career has been more flaccid than the thread title suggests.
why is it impossible? Granted, you're not involved in the interview process....but i just said you can look up their histories of where they've worked and who they've worked with. It's a general assessment that obviously isn't 100%...but it's not supposed to be.
for example...Does the candidate have a background in player personnel or are they a cap guru? have their previous front offices jobs have a history of winning and good drafting?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 12:12:13 AM
why is it impossible? Granted, you're not involved in the interview process....but i just said you can look up their histories of where they've worked and who they've worked with. It's a general assessment that obviously isn't 100%...but it's not supposed to be.Because just because a guy worked with someone else who was competent doesn't mean he is competent. Is a player personnel or cap guy better? No clue. Need to be able to do both or be able to delegate to people who can fill for your weak spots. We can't possible be familiar with guys enough to make real judgments.
for example...Does the candidate have a background in player personnel or are they a cap guru? have their previous front offices jobs have a history of winning and good drafting?
You can tell a little more with coaches but even then, we are mostly guessing. The guy with the best resume since Parcells left was Todd Bowles. And he was awful.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 12:13:18 AM
Because just because a guy worked with someone else who was competent doesn't mean he is competent. Is a player personnel or cap guy better? No clue. Need to be able to do both or be able to delegate to people who can fill for your weak spots.
You can tell a little more with coaches but even then, we are mostly guessing. The guy with the best resume since Parcells left was Todd Bowles. And he was awful.
Like i said, it's not 100% accurate...but you can give yourself a general idea.
I hated Todd Bowles as soon as he walked in the door...because he failed as an interim coach elsewhere. His creature of habit bullshit is killing the Buccaneers now.
Post by: Jumbo on December 23, 2022, 12:13:37 AM
He suggested that JD was on the hot seat. He didn't want him fired, but it could happen.
I asked who he wanted to replace him with. I was curious. Because i believe there isn't much better out there.
This wasnt difficult to understand
Where's the disconnect with you on this.... Are you drunk from the game?
I don't think he's on the hot seat, but he will be if he fails at finding competence at QB in 2023. Hard to go 4 years as GM without a winning record and failing to solve the most important position by far on your resume without getting put on the hot seat.
But overall he's shown to be competent enough that there's no reason to get rid of him. Yet.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 12:15:31 AM
I don't think he's on the hot seat, but he will be if he fails at finding competence at QB in 2023. Hard to go 4 years as GM without a winning record and failing to solve the most important position by far on your resume without getting put on the hot seat.
But overall he's shown to be competent enough that there's no reason to get rid of him. Yet.
I agree. He needs to hit on a QB.
But then he goes ahead and potentially drafts the OROY and DROY, and probably bought himself some more time.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 23, 2022, 07:38:16 AM
Less than a month ago, all the talk was that this team was a year ahead of itself. The only thing that's "different" now is that QB is a bigger question mark, but it was a question mark in November too.
The IF game sucks, but if Becton and AVT--not to mention Hall--don't get hurt and Mike White doesn't literally get his ribs broken, this is a much different team. I'm not ready to say Douglas is incapable of building a winner.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 08:25:20 AM
Nobody is. But overall, he has been an average GM.
Not looking to fire him but your grading is very very generous. Douglas isn't even mediocre yet.Meh is the best word and the title to this thread is a giant joke.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 23, 2022, 08:26:22 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 23, 2022, 08:30:10 AM
We will be competitive next year as long as we can get average competent QB play...and we don't lost all our studs to injuries
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 08:37:26 AM
Not looking to fire him but your grading is very very generous. Douglas isn't even mediocre yet.Meh is the best word and the title to this thread is a giant joke.
There's a very good chance he drafted the OROY and DROY this year. That's only happened one other time in NFL history.
Meh lol
Post by: Johnny English on December 23, 2022, 08:40:13 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 08:42:10 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 08:46:50 AM
Missing on the Zach Wilson pick is a major freak-up on his part, but he's probably done enough to get another shot at fixing the QB position.I agree but that is a big fuckup, and his 2020 draft is a total write off. We loved the 2021 draft, but if the #2 pick busts, it turns into a pretty average draft. And his big FA signings until this year have been mediocre.
His entire tenure is basically the 2022 offseason and the Adams trade
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 08:47:26 AM
There's a very good chance he drafted the OROY and DROY this year. That's only happened one other time in NFL history.
Meh lol
Oh 1 of 3 drafts yippee. His first draft for instance is just as bad as anything Duff or Idzik, and his second is excrement too. So do me a favor your smug obnoxious moronic bullshit and shove it up your freaking derriere.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 08:49:55 AM
I agree but that is a big fuckup, and his 2020 draft is a total write off. We loved the 2021 draft, but if the #2 pick busts, it turns into a pretty average draft. And his big FA signings until this year have been mediocre.
His entire tenure is basically the 2022 offseason and the Adams trade
We'll have to see what happens. Woody Johnson is a loose cannon.
I think JD is fine, but his lease will get a lot shorter. Someone's head will roll though. No way do they run it back with the same staff after failing to develop a young QB.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 08:50:59 AM
Oh 1 of 3 drafts yippee. His first draft for instance is just as bad as anything Duff or Idzik, and his second is excrement too. So do me a favor your smug obnoxious moronic bullshit and shove it up your freaking derriere.
His first draft was heavily influenced by Gase.
I'm starting to wonder if you and dcm are the same person. Your takes are terrible, even for a guy who barely watches the games.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 08:52:00 AM
His first draft was heavily influenced by Gase.A Jets tradition unlike any other. Blaming drafts we don't like on the coach/gm we don't like thinking it's all their fault.
I'm starting to wonder if you and dcm are the same person.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 08:52:47 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 08:52:59 AM
A Jets tradition unlike any other. Blaming drafts we don't like on the coach/gm we don't like thinking it's all their fault.
I thought Joe's selections improved after Gase was punted out of NY.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 08:53:29 AM
I said it when we drafted Wilson that if the pieces he brought in that weren't Zach Wilson paid off then he could weather Zach Wilson failing. I think for the most part he has put himself in a position to survive but this next FA/draft class is going to be a decider on wether or not he completes his contract.
This is a fair assessment.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 08:53:47 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 23, 2022, 08:53:53 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 08:54:50 AM
Given the rest of the top picks in the 2021 draft, the Zach Wilson pick is one of the worst picks in NFL history.
And yet, Garrett Wilson/Sauce/Breece Hall look like homeruns.
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 09:05:40 AM
If anyone is talking about bailing on Douglas now, they will never be satisfied with any GM ever.This . Nobody likes holding their dick in the wind after swinging on a QB at 2
But you guys are delusional if you want to play musical chairs at every important organizational aspect
I think we have the HC and GM right . Saleh clock mismanagement aside . The injuries and QB controversy altered handled about as well as possible imo
I liked Trey Lance . Thought Fields was a good prospect but I absolutely hate OSU QBs. Thought if anyone could break thst curse it'd be him . Just didn't want to take thst chance
I thought with this system Wilson could be reined in . But he can't hit simple excrement and thats a Wilson problem . Not a MLF problem
I've made my complaints on MLF so spare me the chicken and egg debate. Both our OC and QB suck . Plain and simple
Saleh better find some stones and get a new offensive staff .
Anyways . You replace JD you basically hit the reset button all over and there's an actual foundation for a long term competitor here that JD did establish . We'd have to have a horrendous offseason and miss the playoffs again for me to even entertain that discussion .
A lot of us had 8 wins going into this yr and that's where we might end up . If we were all told we'd play meaningful games into December you'd sign up for it .
We're all pissed and whiney after last night and it's understandable . I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water though .
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 09:07:23 AM
This . Nobody likes holding their dick in the wind after swinging on a QB at 2
But you guys are delusional if you want to play musical chairs at every important organizational aspect
I think we have the HC and GM right . Saleh clock mismanagement aside . The injuries and QB controversy altered handled about as well as possible imo
I liked Trey Lance . Thought Fields was a good prospect but I absolutely hate OSU QBs. Thought if anyone could break thst curse it'd be him . Just didn't want to take thst chance
I thought with this system Wilson could be reined in . But he can't hit simple excrement and thats a Wilson problem . Not a MLF problem
I've made my complaints on MLF so spare me the chicken and egg debate. Both our OC and QB suck . Plain and simple
Saleh better find some stones and get a new offensive staff .
Anyways . You replace JD you basically hit the reset button all over and there's an actual foundation for a long term competitor here that JD did establish . We'd have to have a horrendous offseason and miss the playoffs again for me to even entertain that discussion .
A lot of us had 8 wins going into this yr and that's where we might end up . If we were all told we'd play meaningful games into December you'd sign up for it .
We're all pissed and whiney after last night and it's understandable . I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water though .
Another fair assessment.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 23, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
before the season started we all would have said 7-9 wins was a reasonable expectation, assuming zach panned out. we're right there with zach flaming out. realizing we had a shot at the playoffs mid year accelerated expectations a lot.
i think he's earned more time. if there's no change or improvement next year that's a whole different discussion
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:09:06 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 09:12:58 AM
I dont think anyone is calling for Douglas' job. But the perception among Jets fans appears to be he can do no wrong when his resume is hit-or-miss like most GMs. That doesn't mean I want him fired.
Well, i like Joe...he's done a great job in comparison to previous Jets GMs.
However, i'm not in the "he can do no wrong" boat anymore. He proved that with the Zach Wilson miss.
He'll get a chance to fix this mistake, but he won't get another if he doesn't fix it.
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 09:13:06 AM
I dont think anyone is calling for Douglas' job. But the perception among Jets fans appears to be he can do no wrong when his resume is hit-or-miss like most GMs. That doesn't mean I want him fired.Trade for Brock Purdy . Lol problem solved
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 09:13:42 AM
All I'm saying.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 09:15:35 AM
I dont think anyone is calling for Douglas' job. But the perception among Jets fans appears to be he can do no wrong when his resume is hit-or-miss like most GMs. That doesn't mean I want him fired.
Pretty much this it's a meh resume, I guess coming after Idzik or Duff makes him look better.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:15:50 AM
Trade for Brock Purdy . Lol problem solved
Purdy plays for an offensive coach that Mike LaFleur apparently learned nothing from
We can’t run the ball for excrement
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:16:57 AM
I realize what I sound like since JD is on my avatar. But we need some form of consistency beyond 3 yrsI agree. But I am replying in a thread called Joe Douglas boner garage talking to 2 guys with JD avatars.
All I'm saying.
Douglas' 2 biggest personnel missions when he got here were to fix the OL and the QB. Neither is good 3.5 years into his tenure.
He has done enough other good to make up for that and keep his job, but his reputation is built on one trade and one draft where he had two top 10 picks.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:17:30 AM
Pretty much this it's a meh resume, I guess coming after Idzik or Duff makes him look better.
It’s not meh. The team overachieved this year and a lot of that has to do with the moves he’s made, especially the Jamal Adams heist.
He’s been pretty bad in free agency but he’s upgraded the roster as a whole.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 23, 2022, 09:17:30 AM
Sauce
G-Dub
AVT
Hall
All legitimate studs at the top of their positions already in the league. His biggest FA whiff has been Tomlinson and that is balanced out be how big a stud DJ Reed has been. It just sucks so much that we seem to have our big studs more so on defense than offense.
Saleh has a mini-bye to work with in restructuring the offensive staff and planning. The whole staff needs to be pulled in this morning and spend all day self evaluating and figuring out what changes need to be made, because it’s all a trainwreck and cannot be allowed to continue unaltered.
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 09:17:58 AM
Purdy plays for an offensive coach that Mike LaFleur apparently learned nothing fromYeah Benton should be packing his freaking bags
We can’t run the ball for excrement
An LaFleur we've discussed has maybe 3 run concepts and eliminated the lead back which is the backbone of the run philosophy for the whole system
Hes a freaking moron who got the job by proxy of being LaFleur coffee fetching brother
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 09:19:03 AM
I agree. But I am replying in a thread called Joe Douglas boner garage talking to 2 guys with JD avatars.OL would be injury this yr . Lack of talent the other 2 yrs
Douglas' 2 biggest personnel missions when he got here were to fix the OL and the QB. Neither is good 3.5 years into his tenure.
He has done enough other good to make up for that and keep his job, but his reputation is built on one trade and one draft where he had two top 10 picks.
I'm not placing the OL solely on him he got us depth and did plenty . We're down to practice squad and cuts at this ppint .
QB is all him. All day and a massive miss.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:19:11 AM
I agree. But I am replying in a thread called Joe Douglas boner garage talking to 2 guys with JD avatars.
Douglas' 2 biggest personnel missions when he got here were to fix the OL and the QB. Neither is good 3.5 years into his tenure.
He has done enough other good to make up for that and keep his job, but his reputation is built on one trade and one draft where he had two top 10 picks.
The OL is absolutely depleted by injury though.
We can’t cut him a break for Carl Lawson and then not do the same for the OL. All three of our OL prospects are injured.
Benton should be fired. We need a new voice in that room.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 09:19:39 AM
His first draft was heavily influenced by Gase.
I'm starting to wonder if you and dcm are the same person. Your takes are terrible, even for a guy who barely watches the games.
The picks were drafted to fit an offense and a defense that.wasn't there the next season but none of them really contributed much.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 09:21:08 AM
I don't care any longer not wasting time any more
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:22:19 AM
It is meh and I am so sick of you dicks here telling what I can and can't think. For the love God freak off. It's nothing special so far but I will be sure to ask you and MB what to think when it does.
You are such a bitch for no reason.
I’m allowed to disagree with your takes.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 09:22:48 AM
OL would be injury this yr . Lack of talent the other 2 yrs
I'm not placing the OL solely on him he got us depth and did plenty . We're down to practice squad and cuts at this ppint .
QB is all him. All day and a massive miss.
Yeah, but how many of them do you actually want back? Tomlinson was healthy the whole time and he has been getting bull rushed into oblivion the whole time
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 23, 2022, 09:26:33 AM
I dont think anyone is calling for Douglas' job. But the perception among Jets fans appears to be he can do no wrong when his resume is hit-or-miss like most GMs. That doesn't mean I want him fired.
aiight. i'll admit my bone for him was pretty hard mid season after all the wins. but his tenure has definitely had a lot of good and a lot of bad. i think you'd be hard pressed to find a homer defending it's all been good unless it's a place like reddit or TGG
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 09:27:22 AM
You are such a bitch for no reason.
I’m allowed to disagree with your takes.
Lol am a bitch? It's because any dissent here isn't allowed. It's been annoying for years and it's freaking ridiculous. Then you and that other spineless piece of excrement try and gang up , so freak off.
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 09:28:36 AM
Yeah, but how many of them do you actually want back? Tomlinson was healthy the whole time and he has been getting bull rushed into oblivion the whole timeSome of that is benton and the run concepts . I think most of these guys are better at drive blocking tbh
Which is all the more reason to can MLF
Fant and Brown were stop gaps . We need to re sign McGovern. Draft another interior player and draft an OT. First 2 of 4 picks would be OL for me .
We get a new GM then it's musical chairs at HC again .
Nobody is hear saying JD is amazing . I'd say he's above avg and had a massive miss at his most important pick
Hes earned enough credit with other picks though
Which he could've easily botched then we'd all want him dead .
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:28:37 AM
Lol am a bitch? It's because any dissent here isn't allowed. It's been annoying for years and it's freaking ridiculous. Then you and that other spineless piece of excrement try and gang up , so freak off.
“The GM is meh because that’s what I think when I’m mad after a loss” is not ridiculous, huh?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 23, 2022, 09:28:46 AM
Yeah, but how many of them do you actually want back? Tomlinson was healthy the whole time and he has been getting bull rushed into oblivion the whole time
I said this elsewhere, but the only guy on the line right now who deserves to be a written in starter next year is AVT. I’d let McGovern and Fant walk, and try to fire Tomlinson into the Sun.
Becton, Mitchell and Brown can compete for one tackle spot. I’d bring Herbig back, and make a big FA investment in C or OT and high level draft investment in the other.
Q needs his extension this offseason and I’d look to renegotiate with Lawson and JFM to free up the money to do it.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 09:36:21 AM
“The GM is meh because that’s what I think when I’m mad after a loss” is not ridiculous, huh?
Funny but I have thought that all along.
Tell how it's not meh? 3 drafts- 2 bad but ok the first one was all Gase. 3 years of no playoffs? Ok great that Gase's fault too. 3 years to fix the online, nope hasn't done that either.
He's made one great trade , one great draft and onedecent off-season in 3 mediocre.....meh
So yeah freak off.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:36:44 AM
“The GM is meh because that’s what I think when I’m mad after a loss” is not ridiculous, huh?He is 20-44 as a GM. 13-35 if we remove the year he missed most of the offseason.
I think this team is set up relatkvely well going forward but it is time to start winning next year.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:40:13 AM
He is 20-44 as a GM. 13-35 if we remove the year he missed most of the offseason.
I think this team is set up relatkvely well going forward but it is time to start winning next year.
We absolutely have to contend next year. We are a year ahead this season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:41:59 AM
We absolutely have to contend next year. We are a year ahead this season.We are 7-8 and underdogs in our last 2 games. We are not ahead of schedule anymore. Probably on schedule.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:42:13 AM
Funny but I have thought that all along.
Tell how it's not meh? 3 drafts- 2 bad but ok the first one was all Gase. 3 years of no playoffs? Ok great that Gase's fault too. 3 years to fix the online, nope hasn't done that either.
He's made one great trade , one great draft and onedecent off-season in 3 mediocre.....meh
So yeah freak off.
He inherited a team that was atrocious on both sides of the football. The culture was nonexistent due to years of losing plus the stink of Adam Gase and Mike Maccagnan.
WFAN caller expectations on full display.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:43:10 AM
He still has a team that needs QB, OT and EDGE.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:43:11 AM
We are 7-8 and underdogs in our last 2 games. We are not ahead of schedule anymore. Probably on schedule.
You looked too far ahead. The Jags and Lions aren’t who we expected them to be.
Those teams are better than us.
On paper, those two games plus the Seahawks looked like wins at the beginning of the season.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:44:36 AM
He inherited a team that needed serious help at QB, OT and EDGE.
He still has a team that needs QB, OT and EDGE.
He inherited a team that needed basically everything.
EDGE is fine. We have talent and depth there.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:47:25 AM
You looked too far ahead. The Jags and Lions aren’t who we expected them to be.We also got lucky facing backup QBs for half our wins. It more than evened out.
Those teams are better than us.
On paper, those two games plus the Seahawks looked like wins at the beginning of the season.
I thought we would be a 7-8 win team. We will likely be that.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 09:49:47 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:58:35 AM
We also got lucky facing backup QBs for half our wins. It more than evened out.
I thought we would be a 7-8 win team. We will likely be that.
Plus the fluke win in Cleveland
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 23, 2022, 09:59:15 AM
I said this elsewhere, but the only guy on the line right now who deserves to be a written in starter next year is AVT. I’d let McGovern and Fant walk, and try to fire Tomlinson into the Sun.
Becton, Mitchell and Brown can compete for one tackle spot. I’d bring Herbig back, and make a big FA investment in C or OT and high level draft investment in the other.
Q needs his extension this offseason and I’d look to renegotiate with Lawson and JFM to free up the money to do it.
have you seen herbig the last few weeks lmao? he's been horrible
i was officially done with him last night on the botched screen play to garrett. he was pulling and instead of chipping/shoving/laying any hands on his defender as he's going away, he literally did his best to not put his hands on him and actually moved out of his way. it was mind boggling. zach threw his attempted screen at the defender that herbig did nothing to obstruct
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 10:01:18 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 10:02:23 AM
have you seen herbig the last few weeks lmao? he's been horrible
i was officially done with him last night on the botched screen play to garrett. he was pulling and instead of chipping/shoving/laying any hands on his defender as he's going away, he literally did his best to not put his hands on him and actually moved out of his way. it was mind boggling. zach threw his attempted screen at the defender that herbig did nothing to obstruct
Agreed. Herbig should be competing for a roster spot next season, not a starting job.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 23, 2022, 10:35:38 AM
There isn't money to fill out an entire roster, so he's had to purchase guys who belong in rotations and the staff has to insert them as starters. For me, he gets one more draft to fill the roster. This team should be in the hunt New Year's Eve 2023, but I'll even be patient for the 2024 season to expect them to make a multiple January wins run.
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 11:27:49 AM
Fant and Herbig have been about as bad as it getsAgreed
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 11:42:49 AM
Fant and Herbig have been about as bad as it gets
You're not wrong.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 02:51:51 PM
I don't care any longer not wasting time any more
(https://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/319078074_887186592468338_8539231933987560207_n.png?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=oVCuyt-hk7IAX8psuCr&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc2-1.fna&oh=03_AdStgBTyHD14IQtgXt3AsKBAdLyLZONKECDSoxdQZsLMNA&oe=63CD95F0)
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 23, 2022, 03:03:39 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 03:05:47 PM
Has gord season officially started?
It's always Gord season
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 23, 2022, 03:14:09 PM
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
·
5h
#Jets blocking with Zach Wilson: 39.8% pressure rate (would rank 30th), 8.6% sack rate (would rank 25th).
Blocking w/o Zach Wilson: 29.6% pressure rate (would rank 9th), 4.7% sack rate (would rank 6th).
Post by: Johnny English on December 23, 2022, 03:35:26 PM
The O-Line has indeed sucked but...
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
·
5h
#Jets blocking with Zach Wilson: 39.8% pressure rate (would rank 30th), 8.6% sack rate (would rank 25th).
Blocking w/o Zach Wilson: 29.6% pressure rate (would rank 9th), 4.7% sack rate (would rank 6th).
OK, but you have to dig deeper into that. Is it because defenses deliberately bring more pressure when Zach's under center because they know how bad he is at dealing with it, or is it because Zach doesn't read the field quickly enough to get the ball out before the pressure comes? Do other QBs face less pressure because they're more decisive, or because they're given different plays by the OC due to them not having the ability to heave a ball 50 yards downfield on a gamebreaking but slow developing route?
Post by: dcm1602 on December 23, 2022, 03:37:46 PM
OK, but you have to dig deeper into that. Is it because defenses deliberately bring more pressure when Zach's under center because they know how bad he is at dealing with it, or is it because Zach doesn't read the field quickly enough to get the ball out before the pressure comes? Do other QBs face less pressure because they're more decisive, or because they're given different plays by the OC due to them not having the ability to heave a ball 50 yards downfield on a gamebreaking but slow developing route?
It's a lot easier if you dig shallowly into it
But at the end of the day it's obvious that Zach is the biggest proven. And our OL plus OC needs to be improved
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 23, 2022, 04:02:25 PM
OK, but you have to dig deeper into that. Is it because defenses deliberately bring more pressure when Zach's under center because they know how bad he is at dealing with it, or is it because Zach doesn't read the field quickly enough to get the ball out before the pressure comes? Do other QBs face less pressure because they're more decisive, or because they're given different plays by the OC due to them not having the ability to heave a ball 50 yards downfield on a gamebreaking but slow developing route?
Yeah, for sure. It's always more nuanced that it seems. And it's probably a little bit of everything plus the fact that he's absolutely unable to recognize blitzes or read the field.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 05:01:37 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 05:06:29 PM
Cool a failed high school coach giving an opinion isnt any better.
I could take a cheap shot at you but I don’t think Coach K has any straws left
Hope you enjoyed the free ticket by the way
Post by: Miamipuck on December 23, 2022, 05:13:48 PM
I could take a cheap shot at you but I don’t think Coach K has any straws left
Hope you enjoyed the free ticket by the way
I didn't use the ticket and would have sent money if I had. You and MB have been lobbing grnades for a month. I have said nothing dramatic other than giving up on Zach. Give the coaching staff another year they're improving and Douglas is mediocre wow crazy stuff there.
But if I misread your comment than I won't do anything personal again and apologize. You know what I am sick of.
Edit: I am never afraid to say I am wrong......
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 07:27:46 AM
I didn't use the ticket and would have sent money if I had. You and MB have been lobbing grnades for a month. I have said nothing dramatic other than giving up on Zach. Give the coaching staff another year they're improving and Douglas is mediocre wow crazy stuff there.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221224/31ac4af17177cda8f9d98ae228c0697f.jpg)
But if I misread your comment than I won't do anything personal again and apologize. You know what I am sick of.
Edit: I am never afraid to say I am wrong......
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 06:59:09 PM
In 3 seasons since, we have yet to have a better record.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 07:02:38 PM
Joe Douglas went 7-9 in his first season with Adam Gase before he got to pick the groceries.
In 3 seasons since, we have yet to have a better record.
i hope we extend him. Best GM we've had since Tanny.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 07:03:28 PM
i hope we extend him. Best GM we've had since Tanny.Sounds like my argument that LaFleur was our best OC since Schotty.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 07:04:19 PM
Sounds like my argument that LaFleur was our best OC since Schotty.
the difference being...your argument is incorrect.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 07:05:40 PM
the difference being...your argument is incorrect.It's not, but that's a different discussion. And like I said, my thoughts on MLF changed when we didn't score a single offensive TD against 2 bad defenses in our 2 biggest games of the year. The end of the season was a big test, and he failed miserably.
(also, Douglas hired Saleh/MLF)
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 07:06:32 PM
Sounds like my argument that LaFleur was our best OC since Schotty.Chan Gailey said hi
Post by: bojanglesman on January 01, 2023, 07:07:55 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 07:08:14 PM
Chan Gailey said hiI tried blocking out the 2016 season. Probably my least favorite Jets season ever, along with 2020.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 07:09:48 PM
It's not, but that's a different discussion. And like I said, my thoughts on MLF changed when we didn't score a single offensive TD against 2 bad defenses in our 2 biggest games of the year. The end of the season was a big test, and he failed miserably.
(also, Douglas hired Saleh/MLF)
Seattle's D gives up 25 pts on average....we scored 6. As much as i wanted to win this game, i knew deep down our offense was going to look like excrement. So while you were trying to decide whether or not MLF was a bum, i had already came to that conclusion weeks ago.
I wanted to have this discussion with you back in the fall, but you weren't ready. Now i don't care, i just want him gone.
Post by: Coach K on January 01, 2023, 07:40:06 PM
I tried blocking out the 2016 season. Probably my least favorite Jets season ever, along with 2020.I watched Fitzpatrick melt down live in Houston. Which I'd why I'm selling my tix to Miami or giving em to my gf family (they're from Miami and phins fans ) if we can find buyers
Post by: Jumbo on January 01, 2023, 08:14:26 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 08:20:50 PM
JD's seat definitely getting warmer. The QB issues fall on him ultimately, but the OL issues I think are a less fair criticism. Better teams that have had similar level of OL injuries (LAR, TB) are also struggling heavily on offense this year.We also spent all offseason victory lapping how good the 2021 draft was. It's looking like a pretty average draft. Perhaps below average given the amount of draft capital we had. And the 2020 draft is obviously a disaster.
I think the 2022 draft is almost certainly a great one, but he's basically had 1 bad draft, 1 average draft, and 1 great draft.
His free agents have been hit-or-miss, with probably more misses than hits. None of the misses have been crippling like a Trumaine Johnson, but Reed is the only real home run.
His trades have been very good. The Jamal Adams trade is one of the best NFL trades in the past decade.
But I think starting next year, we can't really use Maccagnan as an excuse anymore. Especially since Maccagnan brought in the best player on the team (Quinnen).
I think he's a competent GM. Maybe even a good one. But many Jets fans act like he's a top GM in the NFL, when he really hasn't proven much.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 08:22:43 PM
We also spent all offseason victory lapping how good the 2021 draft was. It's looking like a pretty average draft. Perhaps below average given the amount of draft capital we had. And the 2020 draft is obviously a disaster.
I think the 2022 draft is almost certainly a great one, but he's basically had 1 bad draft, 1 average draft, and 1 great draft.
His free agents have been hit-or-miss, with probably more misses than hits. None of the misses have been crippling like a Trumaine Johnson, but Reed is the only real home run.
His trades have been very good. The Jamal Adams trade is one of the best NFL trades in the past decade.
But I think starting next year, we can't really use Maccagnan as an excuse anymore. Especially since Maccagnan brought in the best player on the team (Quinnen).
I think he's a competent GM. Maybe even a good one. But many Jets fans act like he's a top GM in the NFL, when he really hasn't proven much.
Maccagnan also brought in adam gase...which trumps anything good he ever did.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 01, 2023, 08:23:33 PM
Maccagnan also brought in adam gase...which trumps anything good he ever did.Douglas kept him. And then hasn't had a better season since firing him.
(but we all know Maccagnan sucked, that isn't the point).
Gase helped bring in Douglas. If Douglas ends up not working out, we will laugh that we put faith into an Adam Gase recommendation.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 08:26:09 PM
Douglas kept him. And then hasn't had a better season since firing him.
(but we all know Maccagnan sucked, that isn't the point).
Gase helped bring in Douglas. If Douglas ends up not working out, we will laugh that we put faith into an Adam Gase recommendation.
I like Douglas....but i'd send him down the river in a heartbeat if Adam Gase never existed at Florham Park.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 11:03:57 AM
DJ Reed
Laken Tomlinson
Jordan Whitehead
CJ Uzomah
Tyler Conklin
Braxton Berrios
Greg Zuerlein
Duane Brown
Kwon Alexander
Jacob Martin
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 11:06:38 AM
Rate Joe Douglas 2022 Free Agent Class:Better than this...
DJ Reed
Laken Tomlinson
Jordan Whitehead
CJ Uzomah
Tyler Conklin
Braxton Berrios
Greg Zuerlein
Duane Brown
Kwon Alexander
Jacob Martin
Veteran Additions:
QB Joe Flacco, RB Frank Gore, WR Breshad Perriman, OT George Fant, G Greg Van Roten, C Connor McGovern, LB Patrick Onwuasor, CB Pierre Desir, S Bradley McDougald.
Draft Picks:
OT Mekhi Becton, WR Denzel Mims, S Ashtyn Davis, DE Jabari Zuniga, RB Lamical Perine, QB James Morgan, OT/G Cameron Clark
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 11:08:45 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 11:09:52 AM
now do Idzik and MaccagnanDoes Breshad Perriman or Tyler Conklin give you a bigger boner?
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 11:11:10 AM
Does Breshad Perriman or Tyler Conklin give you a bigger boner?
No..but Sauce, Breece and Garrett Wilson do.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 11:17:01 AM
Rate Joe Douglas 2022 Free Agent Class:
DJ Reed
Laken Tomlinson
Jordan Whitehead
CJ Uzomah
Tyler Conklin
Braxton Berrios
Greg Zuerlein
Duane Brown
Kwon Alexander
Jacob Martin
DJ Reed is the best free agent signing this team has had in a very long time. Tomlinson is one of the worst.
The TE position was vastly underutilized. I think they were overpaid but also held back by poor QB play and a bad offensive scheme.
Brown and Kwon were bandaid signings and they both held up about as long as they could.
Jacob Martin did haven't a place after we drafted two EDGE players that could contribute from the jump.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 11:17:51 AM
now do Idzik and Maccagnan
Remember when Idzik got fired and Maccagnan used all of his cap maneuvering to win Executive of the Year?
Good times.
Post by: MBGreen on February 10, 2023, 07:18:03 AM
And i know the QB situation is still a question mark. But after last night, I think JD has bought himself some time in that GM chair no matter how next season goes.
I know some question his oline decisions, but i think he did everything he possibly could to strengthen the oline. You can't fight the injury bug....excrement happens.
I really believe we have a good one here. The best of Ozzie Newsome and Howie Roseman.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 10, 2023, 07:51:30 AM
Okay so...everyone here knows i've been a Joe Douglas stan since he was hired. I thought it was an excellent hire, given our history of past GMs.
And i know the QB situation is still a question mark. But after last night, I think JD has bought himself some time in that GM chair no matter how next season goes.
I know some question his oline decisions, but i think he did everything he possibly could to strengthen the oline. You can't fight the injury bug....excrement happens.
I really believe we have a good one here. The best of Ozzie Newsome and Howie Roseman.
I agree with you, but just to be an poopchute, the alternative argument is that both of them were top 10 picks, so them being really good shouldn't be a surprise. The one he should get more credit for is Breece Hall.
Post by: MBGreen on February 10, 2023, 08:01:07 AM
I agree with you, but just to be an poopchute, the alternative argument is that both of them were top 10 picks, so them being really good shouldn't be a surprise. The one he should get more credit for is Breece Hall.
I'll ask you to think about our history with top 10 picks...and then let you rethink your stance on that.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on February 10, 2023, 08:25:13 AM
I'll ask you to think about our history with top 10 picks...and then let you rethink your stance on that.
Exactly this.
Deez Milliner says hi
Post by: bojanglesman on February 10, 2023, 08:45:58 AM
I'll ask you to think about our history with top 10 picks...and then let you rethink your stance on that.
Our past experience isn't normal and shouldn't be considered normal. I'm not saying every top 10 pick should be rookie of the year, but they should be good and not considered some major miracle if they care in the running for ROY.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 10, 2023, 11:11:07 AM
Our past experience isn't normal and shouldn't be considered normal. I'm not saying every top 10 pick should be rookie of the year, but they should be good and not considered some major miracle if they care in the running for ROY.
we could've drafted Stingley and London
Post by: bojanglesman on February 10, 2023, 11:28:42 AM
we could've drafted Stingley and LondonDidn't they both have pretty good years?
Joe Douglas did a great job this year, no doubt. I'm not arguing against that. But we did have three 1st rounders and a high 2nd. I'm mainly just irritating MB on purpose.
Honestly I feel Garrett Wilson had a more impressive year than Sauce only because he managed to put up that season with the hot garbage we had at QB. Sauce had a great season too, but he did have a better surrounding cast.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 10, 2023, 11:29:27 AM
Didn't they both have pretty good years?
Neither of them was a finalist for OROY or DROY
Post by: Jumbo on February 10, 2023, 11:42:09 AM
we could've drafted Stingley and London
not really, neither were available when we picked. That both rookies we picked weren't the first selected at their positions and still won ROYs is definitely a good sign, though.
At the end of the day though, QB needs to be solved at least temporarily for JD to be secure.
Post by: Johnny English on February 10, 2023, 01:17:04 PM
Neither of them was a finalist for OROY or DROY
Chris Olave should have been though.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 10, 2023, 01:18:07 PM
Chris Olave should have been though.
over Purdy most definitely
Post by: MBGreen on February 10, 2023, 01:28:01 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 10, 2023, 01:33:25 PM
Our past experience isn't normal and shouldn't be considered normal. I'm not saying every top 10 pick should be rookie of the year, but they should be good and not considered some major miracle if they care in the running for ROY.We've struggled taking QBs high, but outside of QBs, here are our last five top-10 picks that weren't QBs (Darnold, Wilson).
- Sauce
- Garrett
- Quinnen
- Jamal Adams
- Leonard Williams
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 10, 2023, 02:43:44 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 10, 2023, 02:50:55 PM
I'd like to see us have more success with our mid- to later round picks.
He's made some pretty good ones since Saleh took over.
Michael Carter II
Micheal Carter
Micheal Clemons
Max Mitchell
Brandin Echols
It'd be nice to find some true stars in these rounds, but he's made some really strong depth selections.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 10, 2023, 03:01:49 PM
He's made some pretty good ones since Saleh took over.
Michael Carter II
Micheal Carter
Micheal Clemons
Max Mitchell
Brandin Echols
It'd be nice to find some true stars in these rounds, but he's made some really strong depth selections.
Yeah, I guess I'm just waiting for those 1 or 2 mid- to late-round stars that seem to elevate most perennial contenders.
Post by: MBGreen on April 23, 2023, 06:57:43 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 25, 2023, 10:58:12 AM
Al Woods and Kwon Alexander make a lot of sense for us.
Post by: MBGreen on April 25, 2023, 11:02:12 AM
Time for Douglas to fill in a couple more holes before the draft, preferably DT and LB.
Al Woods and Kwon Alexander make a lot of sense for us.
Operation Horsefly....re-activated
#bzzz
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 01:01:01 AM
This is a SB contender team, only missing a QB. Douglas has to do everything in his power to get the best one that’s available through FA or trade. He can be the backup, starter, whatever. But to let this season slip away with a roster this talented is inexcusable. You signed up for this when you hitched your wagon to
Rodgers. We have a big hole and standing Pat isn’t good enough. Tim Boyle isnt acceptable anymore Joe that we need QBs that can play
Post by: Libero_2 on September 12, 2023, 05:46:36 AM
I don’t care if you actually believe Zw is the next Aaron Rodgers
This is a SB contender team, only missing a QB. Douglas has to do everything in his power to get the best one that’s available through FA or trade. He can be the backup, starter, whatever. But to let this season slip away with a roster this talented is inexcusable. You signed up for this when you hitched your wagon to
Rodgers. We have a big hole and standing Pat isn’t good enough. Tim Boyle isnt acceptable anymore Joe that we need QBs that can play
All true.
But who the heck is trading a decent QB option?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 12, 2023, 07:18:08 AM
I don’t care if you actually believe Zw is the next Aaron Rodgers
This is a SB contender team, only missing a QB. Douglas has to do everything in his power to get the best one that’s available through FA or trade. He can be the backup, starter, whatever. But to let this season slip away with a roster this talented is inexcusable. You signed up for this when you hitched your wagon to
Rodgers. We have a big hole and standing Pat isn’t good enough. Tim Boyle isnt acceptable anymore Joe that we need QBs that can play
THIS EXACTLY
All we need is competent backup level QB play, and JD knows it. He's got to bring someone else in bc freak Tim Boyle
Here's everyone I would take over Zach Wilson:
Brissett
Winston
Minshew
McCoy
Foles
Mariotta
Flacco
Matt Ryan
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 07:24:19 AM
THIS EXACTLY
All we need is competent backup level QB play, and JD knows it. He's got to bring someone else in bc freak Tim Boyle
Here's everyone I would take over Zach Wilson:
Brissett
Winston
Minshew
McCoy
Foles
Stafford - yes I'd give up a premium pick for him. We went all in, double down
Mariotta
Flacco
Matt Ryan
the Rams are 1-0...Stafford isn't coming here.
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 07:28:32 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 12, 2023, 07:36:08 AM
the Rams are 1-0...Stafford isn't coming here.
Updated OP, happy?
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 07:37:58 AM
Updated OP, happy?Now we can officially send that list to Joe.
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 07:41:03 AM
Updated OP, happy?
happy....i'm not even close to being happy on any front right now.
And Badger is correct, we're not trading for a QB, no team is going to help us out. This is Zach's team with Joe probably signing someone off the FA scrap heap.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 12, 2023, 07:44:07 AM
happy....i'm not even close to being happy on any front right now.
And Badger is correct, we're not trading for a QB, no team is going to help us out. This is Zach's team with Joe probably signing someone off the FA scrap heap.
Wilson < McCoy / Foles
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 12, 2023, 07:44:40 AM
Now we can officially send that list to Joe.
I'll run it through the group sales rep
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 11:12:06 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 11:13:33 AM
https://twitter.com/jemelehill/status/1701413722848448825?t=esbdFk6iZO2WFsEJkFYr_Q&s=19
this might be the dumbest suggestion out there. Yes, even dumber than Tom Brady.
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 11:15:42 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 11:15:55 AM
https://twitter.com/jemelehill/status/1701413722848448825?t=esbdFk6iZO2WFsEJkFYr_Q&s=19
Why wouldn't she just say his name?
Anyway, freaking do it.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 12, 2023, 11:20:19 AM
On a serious note, thinking about Winston. NO would still have Taysom Hill if they move Winston. Could they possibly be comfortable enough to do it?
How is Jameis still 29 years old? Feels like he's 38.
Gotta trade for Jacoby or Jameis. Whoever's cheaper.
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 11:27:31 AM
How is Jameis still 29 years old? Feels like he's 38.Don't know who's cheaper but I don't see Wash trading their only backup, a fairly proven backup, when their starter is rookie Sam Howell.
Gotta trade for Jacoby or Jameis. Whoever's cheaper.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 11:27:42 AM
We roll with Wilson and see if Hackett can finally teach him to play within the confines of an offense, or successfully mitigate his inability to do so.
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 11:28:23 AM
lulz
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 11:29:46 AM
We don't really have anything to trade here. We emptied the tank on a shot with Rodgers and it didn't work. A panic move just because the fan base wants to make it look like we're doing something isn't going to help.Bit of a tightrope IMO - doing nothing looks like not trying to win but doing too much would be a waste because we're probably not a contender anymore.
We roll with Wilson and see if Hackett can finally teach him to play within the confines of an offense, or successfully mitigate his inability to do so.
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 11:30:03 AM
https://twitter.com/KyleGelling/status/1701578566410871278?s=20There was a guy wearing his jersey at the game last night.
lulz
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2023, 11:30:08 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2023, 11:31:22 AM
Post by: IATA on September 12, 2023, 11:38:11 AM
this is so they can trade darnold to us /tinfoilhat
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 11:44:24 AM
It is amazing that Douglas' tenure keeps coming back to his biggest decision - drafting Zach Wilson.If we distance ourselves a bit it's really an interesting situation. And it's so hard for JD to know what to do unless he knows both what Aaron wants and what his body is capable of.
If we knew Aaron wanted to keep playing and that recovery was guaranteed then we simply need a stopgap insurance policy behind Zach for the rest of this year.
If Aaron's future looks doubtful then he can actually justify investing more in a longer-term option.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 12, 2023, 11:47:57 AM
If we distance ourselves a bit it's really an interesting situation. And it's so hard for JD to know what to do unless he knows both what Aaron wants and what his body is capable of.
If we knew Aaron wanted to keep playing and that recovery was guaranteed then we simply need a stopgap insurance policy behind Zach for the rest of this year.
If Aaron's future looks doubtful then he can actually justify investing more in a longer-term option.
You're not bringing in a long term option now anyway
We have up until the draft to figure it out. Right now it's find a bandaid. If the Jets record sucks enoguh that we can draft a good QB were doing it, unless something ridiculous turnaround happens with Zach
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2023, 11:49:21 AM
You're not bringing in a long term option now anywayThe Jets aren't going to have a shitty record. We're already 1-0, and the defense is too good to win fewer than 6 games.
We have up until the draft to figure it out. Right now it's find a bandaid. If the Jets record sucks enoguh that we can draft a good QB were doing it, unless something ridiculous turnaround happens with Zach
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 12, 2023, 12:06:44 PM
There's no way to know how Rodgers is going to feel in 4 months. He won't know himself (unless he's already decided to hang up his cleats) until he's had surgery and some rehab.
We can bring in a backup better than Boyle, but that's about it. If someone becomes available around the deadline and this team is still in the hunt and Zach isn't helping, then go ahead and pull the trigger. Otherwise, it's the Zach Wilson show.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 12, 2023, 12:09:28 PM
The Jets aren't going to have a shitty record. We're already 1-0, and the defense is too good to win fewer than 6 games.
The Jets aren't going to tank for Caleb
Could the Jets end up with a top 10 pick? Absolutely
And if they do there's no reason that we won't be taking a serious look at the QBs available regardless of whether Rodgers does or does not resume his career.
Not to mention Zach looked like his was taking a beating behind this excrement OL
If he gets a real injury we could be looking at the 32nd passing offense in the league instead of the 30th
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 12:11:27 PM
It is amazing that Douglas' tenure keeps coming back to his biggest decision - drafting Zach Wilson.
Drafting a QB at #2 overall is going to be the major point of focus on any GM's career regardless of how that pick turns out.
Post by: Jumbo on September 12, 2023, 12:14:02 PM
If there was ever a time you could justify overpaying for a mediocre QB it's now. I'm not saying to pay a 1st but I'd be fine giving up a 3rd.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 12, 2023, 12:17:22 PM
We didn't end up with a top 10 pick last year despite horrific QB play and multiple injuries to important players on offense. We were 5-2 before Breece and AVT went down for the year. The team is inarguably better this year since we didn't lose anyone of note and added new guys, got multiple players back on the OL. It's hard to see this team being a top 10 pick team even if we run Zach the rest of the year.
If there was ever a time you could justify overpaying for a mediocre QB it's now. I'm not saying to pay a 1st but I'd be fine giving up a 3rd.
Games can go eitherway
And what percentage of our wins were against backup QBs? You can't assume this teams going to beat 7 backup QB's this year. The fact we won last night is promising and leaves a glimmer of hope
But nobody here should be confident enough to bet money we won't have a top 10 pick.
Hell both of our tackles are half crippled. Anything can happen and this season is very capable of turning very ugly
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2023, 12:19:28 PM
Games can go eitherwayI can't imagine we get a top-5 pick which is usually what you need if there are great QB prospects. Top 10 if things break down, fine.
And what percentage of our wins were against backup QBs? You can't assume this teams going to beat 7 backup QB's this year. The fact we won last night is promising and leaves a glommer of hope
But nobody here should be confident enough to bet money we won't have a top 10 pick.
Hell both of our tackles are half crippled. Anything can happen and this season is very capable of turning very ugly
Post by: Jumbo on September 12, 2023, 12:21:10 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 12:23:27 PM
There's basically no way we're in position for Williams or Maye (without giving up an absurd Panthers level deal to move up)
Shedeur Sanders SZN.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 12, 2023, 12:26:53 PM
I can't imagine we get a top-5 pick which is usually what you need if there are great QB prospects. Top 10 if things break down, fine.
Sure if you're talking about elite prospects. But when you don't have a QB you have to settle for good ones. And multiple QB's go in the first outside of the top 5 every year. Sure the bust rate is pretty freaking high, but guys like Jones and Herbert both weren't top 5 picks in recent years.
And if Rodgers does come back, and we take a QB at 8 or 12 or something. Wouldn't be a bad scenario to let the guy sit behind an all time great and not get thrown in day 1
Post by: Jumbo on September 12, 2023, 12:28:11 PM
guys like Jones and Herbert both weren't top 5 picks in recent years.
...you mean two guys that both went #6 overall? lol
QB is only becoming more valuable on the rookie scale deal. I wouldn't count on getting anyone worth much of anything outside of the top 5. If they are you probably have to develop them.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 12, 2023, 12:28:44 PM
...you mean two guys that both went #6 overall? lol
QB is only becoming more valuable on the rookie scale deal. I wouldn't count on getting anyone worth much of anything outside of the top 5. If they are you probably have to develop them.
It ain't top 5 is it?
And yes was talking about a scenario where you draft a guy to develop.
There's no freaking scenario Joe Douglas is stupid enough to draft another day 1 must start QB
Unless we end up getting the top overall pick or something
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 12:32:13 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 12, 2023, 12:43:00 PM
Quote
Dianna Russini
The New York Jets have started to reach out to veteran free-agent quarterbacks, per sources.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 12:49:11 PM
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 01:06:26 PM
Drafting a QB at #2 overall is going to be the major point of focus on any GM's career regardless of how that pick turns out.Unless you're John Lynch apparently
(#3 but still)
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 01:09:02 PM
If there was ever a time you could justify overpaying for a mediocre QB it's now. I'm not saying to pay a 1st but I'd be fine giving up a 3rd.
You can only justify overpaying if you think there's a real shot at a Super Bowl.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 01:11:09 PM
Unless you're John Lynch apparently
(#3 but still)
Having their Mr. Irrelevant pick turn into a staring QB would be the asterisk there.
Post by: Jumbo on September 12, 2023, 01:20:18 PM
You can only justify overpaying if you think there's a real shot at a Super Bowl.
This roster is good enough to have a shot. It's worse than with Rodgers, but mediocre QB play gives us a shot. We just competed well and won against a top 5 SB favorite despite having to throw out the entire offensive gameplan. All the pieces except QB are SB-caliber, besides OL maybe.
I think it would be a mistake to not give it a shot. If Rodgers could potentially come back next year as well, I doubt a 3rd will move the needle too much either way.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 12, 2023, 04:55:06 PM
we're literally just a QB away. i feel sick
Post by: Heismanberg on September 12, 2023, 04:56:20 PM
imagine we lost one more game and had trevor lawrence QBing this team
we're literally just a QB away. i feel sick
It’s week 2
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 12, 2023, 04:59:08 PM
It’s week 2
i'm going to feel sick until we have a proper outlook on what this season is going to be for us.
guessing that will be around the giants game after the bye
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 05:02:20 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 12, 2023, 05:10:29 PM
It’s such a damn tease that we never got to see this offense play even a series after the offseason buildup
i like many others don't want to get all 'sojf', but i keep hearkening back to this
after all of that, after everything, we have one of the GOAT QBs actually playing for us, and we only got to see him throw one pass for us, and that's it. it can only be this organization. like why the fvck, why
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2023, 05:13:23 PM
i like many others don't want to get all 'sojf', but i keep hearkening back to thisI was so SOJF when the injury happened. How could you not be? How can you not think that way as a fan?
after all of that, after everything, we have one of the GOAT QBs actually playing for us, and we only got to see him throw one pass for us, and that's it. it can only be this organization. like why the fvck, why
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 12, 2023, 05:40:53 PM
I was so SOJF when the injury happened. How could you not be? How can you not think that way as a fan?
i saw him limp, then shake his head disappointed towards the sideline, then throw himself to the ground. visceral alarm bells going off all over the place, but i tried fighting off inner SOJF vibes that this was something as serious as an ACL or achilles. then more signals as the night went on that this was something serious. i got annoyed at myself that i tried to deny all of that excrement, with this team, in the first place
Post by: Jumbo on September 12, 2023, 05:48:14 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 05:49:10 PM
This is definitely the most SOJF-worthy moment in team history. I don't blame anyone for going full doomer mode.This
Post by: Badger on September 12, 2023, 08:48:50 PM
This roster is good enough to have a shot. It's worse than with Rodgers, but mediocre QB play gives us a shot. We just competed well and won against a top 5 SB favorite despite having to throw out the entire offensive gameplan. All the pieces except QB are SB-caliber, besides OL maybe.I think the smart thing to do, if we're going to burn draft capital, is to get another WR.
I think it would be a mistake to not give it a shot. If Rodgers could potentially come back next year as well, I doubt a 3rd will move the needle too much either way.
That way we're giving Zach more to work with and if he sucks then it sets up a better supporting cast for 2024 no matter who the QB is.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 12, 2023, 11:29:46 PM
I think the smart thing to do, if we're going to burn draft capital, is to get another WR.I like this take, though I assume whatever WR we get is a FA at the end of the season.
That way we're giving Zach more to work with and if he sucks then it sets up a better supporting cast for 2024 no matter who the QB is.
And a WR is likely easier to get than a quarterback, especially when so few quarterbacks move the needle.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 12:05:44 AM
Anyway if we're trading for a WR, I'd expect it to include a contract extension at least at some point give that we're going to have to sign more than couple next season.
Post by: Badger on September 13, 2023, 06:34:04 AM
I like this take, though I assume whatever WR we get is a FA at the end of the season.
And a WR is likely easier to get than a quarterback, especially when so few quarterbacks move the needle.
The list of WRs in the last year of their contract is basically Mike Evans and a bunch of trash.
Time to start rooting against Tampa.
Post by: MBGreen on September 13, 2023, 08:26:11 AM
The list of WRs in the last year of their contract is basically Mike Evans and a bunch of trash.
Time to start rooting against Tampa.
Let Bowles cook
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 11:37:53 PM
https://www.tiktok.com/@deanotrombino/video/7278485768538967339 (https://www.tiktok.com/@deanotrombino/video/7278485768538967339)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2023, 08:37:51 PM
Will McDonald IV, EDGE | Iowa State
Round 2, Pick 43
Joe Tippmann, C | Wisconsin
Round 4, Pick 112
Carter Warren, OT | Pittsburgh
Round 5, Pick 143
Israel Abanikanda, RB | Pittsburgh
Round 6, Pick 184
Zaire Barnes, LB | Western Michigan
Round 6, Pick 204
Jarrick Bernard-Converse, DB | LSU
Round 7, Pick 220
Zack Kuntz, TE | Old Dominion
How’d these guys do today
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 17, 2023, 08:40:11 PM
Round 1, Pick 15 (from GB)Just as well as his 2023 free agent signings.
Will McDonald IV, EDGE | Iowa State
Round 2, Pick 43
Joe Tippmann, C | Wisconsin
Round 4, Pick 112
Carter Warren, OT | Pittsburgh
Round 5, Pick 143
Israel Abanikanda, RB | Pittsburgh
Round 6, Pick 184
Zaire Barnes, LB | Western Michigan
Round 6, Pick 204
Jarrick Bernard-Converse, DB | LSU
Round 7, Pick 220
Zack Kuntz, TE | Old Dominion
How’d these guys do today
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2023, 08:40:56 PM
Just as well as his 2023 free agent signings.
Morstead was excellent today
Post by: reuben on September 17, 2023, 09:15:10 PM
Round 1, Pick 15 (from GB)
Will McDonald IV, EDGE | Iowa State
Round 2, Pick 43
Joe Tippmann, C | Wisconsin
Round 4, Pick 112
Carter Warren, OT | Pittsburgh
Round 5, Pick 143
Israel Abanikanda, RB | Pittsburgh
Round 6, Pick 184
Zaire Barnes, LB | Western Michigan
Round 6, Pick 204
Jarrick Bernard-Converse, DB | LSU
Round 7, Pick 220
Zack Kuntz, TE | Old Dominion
How’d these guys do today
You are cold as ice, Six.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2023, 10:17:11 PM
Deactivating our 1st round pick behind a depth chart of studs while our QBs are betting killed by our OTs is how you sink a team
Post by: Jumbo on September 18, 2023, 10:49:39 PM
Post by: reuben on September 18, 2023, 10:58:34 PM
The fact that we're apparently not even looking at bringing in a QB3 is absurd malpractice, unless they have something much bigger planned I don't see how you can legitimately say we're fine with Tim Boyle one injury away from playing snaps. That would be worse than Streveler
Moves right now, or lack thereof, are all about sending the message to the team, the public, and the press that we're 100% confident in Zach, whether we actually are or not. There's nobody out there we need to jump on, waiting a couple weeks for this gambit to play out isn't going to cost us a Colt McCoy championship.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 18, 2023, 11:57:11 PM
The fact that we're apparently not even looking at bringing in a QB3 is absurd malpractice, unless they have something much bigger planned I don't see how you can legitimately say we're fine with Tim Boyle one injury away from playing snaps. That would be worse than StrevelerI don't think some guy off the street is going to be much of an upgrade on Boyle, but I'm shocked they haven't brought some warm body in for the practice squad.
Bringing in Colt McCoy or Brett Rypien or Kurt Benkert wasn't going to change the fact that Boyle is the backup, but someone needs to be in here as the 3rd stringer practice squad guy.
Post by: MBGreen on September 19, 2023, 07:56:18 AM
1) Zach will have no future here
2) We'll probably pick high enough in a QB rich draft to grab one of the QBs, who ideally would sit for a year or 2 behind Rodgers
Sure, we'll burn another year with an elite roster. But injuries happen...the best we can hope for is that Zach continues to show improvement and we win some games with Rodgers in his ear.
Pining over who comes in as a backup or a 3rd stringer...who gives a excrement. If that person ends up taking meaningful snaps, the party is over anyway.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 19, 2023, 08:09:12 AM
2) We'll probably pick high enough in a QB rich draft to grab one of the QBs, who ideally would sit for a year or 2 behind Rodgers
Wishful thinking
We need an OT more anyways
Post by: MBGreen on September 19, 2023, 08:33:16 AM
Wishful thinking
We need an OT more anyways
I wouldn't be opposed to drafting OL either.
I've been a jets fan for 28 years....it's been "wishful thinking" the whole time.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 19, 2023, 08:35:07 AM
We already learned last year Zach was unlikely to have a future here, so we wouldn't have learned anything new.
Post by: MBGreen on September 19, 2023, 08:40:39 AM
This team won 7 games last year in a similar spot so I doubt it's bad enough to get one of the top QB prospects.
We already learned last year Zach was unlikely to have a future here, so we wouldn't have learned anything new.
there's at least 6 QBs that could go in the first round....if we're picking in the top 10 (this would coincide with the season being a disaster), one of them will be available to us.
No, we learned that Zach's OC was a POS last year. The plan was to build him back up from scratch in a new system with Aaron Rodgers' tutoring him....and take it from there. That may get scrapped due to circumstances stemming from THIS year, not last year.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 19, 2023, 08:50:12 AM
there's at least 6 QBs that could go in the first round....if we're picking in the top 10 (this would coincide with the season being a disaster), one of them will be available to us.
No, we learned that Zach's OC was a POS last year. The plan was to build him back up from scratch in a new system with Aaron Rodgers' tutoring him....and take it from there. That may get scrapped due to circumstances stemming from THIS year, not last year.
We’re not taking a QB top 10 and I have no interest reaching on a player to sit on the bench while we have a team that has a chance to win
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 19, 2023, 08:52:31 AM
We’re not taking a QB top 10 and I have no interest reaching on a player to sit on the bench while we have a team that has a chance to winAnd if we are taking a QB, we definitely aren't taking the 6th-best QB in a draft.
Post by: MBGreen on September 19, 2023, 08:55:33 AM
We’re not taking a QB top 10 and I have no interest reaching on a player to sit on the bench while we have a team that has a chance to winWell..if Rodgers isn't right after his rehab, and Zach stinks...QB is certainly on the table.
If Rodgers heals up 100%, you still need someone to inherit his position eventually
Post by: MBGreen on September 19, 2023, 08:57:34 AM
And if we are taking a QB, we definitely aren't taking the 6th-best QB in a draft.K
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 19, 2023, 09:02:34 AM
I really believed that Douglas was the answer and would prioritize the line over everything else. Which he did, I guess. Except it was the other side of the ball.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 19, 2023, 09:07:21 AM
I don't care how good a prospect a QB is, without a strong OL QBs struggle. Build the damn line, then worry about the future QB.
I really believed that Douglas was the answer and would prioritize the line over everything else. Which he did, I guess. Except it was the other side of the ball.
He did prioritize the OL and it's still freaking excrement. That's the concerning part. If he ignored it completley at least there could be hope
Post by: MBGreen on September 19, 2023, 09:12:42 AM
I don't care how good a prospect a QB is, without a strong OL QBs struggle. Build the damn line, then worry about the future QB.
I share this opinion. The reason i mentioned QB in this case is because next year's draft potentially has some franchise level QBs.
Post by: MBGreen on September 19, 2023, 09:18:04 AM
If the stars aligned in the first round, we probably would've taken a Tackle...but that was left up to chance.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 19, 2023, 09:39:56 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 19, 2023, 09:57:56 AM
If this team is picking one of the top QBs in 2024 then I suspect Joe Douglas and Saleh just wind up as blood for the Blood God.I like Douglas and generally think he's fine, but if someone wants to argue he shouldn't be retained if we're drafting in the top 10 needing quarterbacks and offensive linemen, I totally get it. He took over a team drafting highly that needed a quarterback and offensive linemen, and we're still there. Hell, he was the GM for Darnold's 2nd and 3rd seasons where he oversaw his young QB fail wth terrible weapons and a bad OL.
Rodgers really bought him a free pass this year since I doubt Rodgers will come back if we clean house.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 19, 2023, 10:12:35 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 19, 2023, 11:03:20 AM
he was the GM for Darnold's 2nd and 3rd seasons where he oversaw his young QB fail wth terrible weapons and a bad OL.
He took over right before the start of Darnold's second season with a talent-barren roster and Gase at head coach so it's hard to really fault him for that not working out.
Rodgers really bought him a free pass this year since I doubt Rodgers will come back if we clean house.
This is the truth.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 19, 2023, 11:22:38 AM
He took over right before the start of Darnold's second season with a talent-barren roster and Gase at head coach so it's hard to really fault him for that not working out.That's fair. I don't give him much blame for Darnold, but thinking Breshad Perriman was a proper WR1 for his 3rd season was an egregious decision.
This is the truth.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 19, 2023, 12:55:37 PM
He did prioritize the OL and it's still freaking excrement. That's the concerning part. If he ignored it completley at least there could be hope
That's actually not a bad point. He's made some poor decisions.
I share this opinion. The reason i mentioned QB in this case is because next year's draft potentially has some franchise level QBs.
I get it, I just don't care about "franchise" QBs at this point. When you don't protect them, it doesn't matter how good a prospect they are. Same goes for even the great ones. When Brady got hit, Brady played poorly. When Peyton got hit, Peyton played poorly. Keep an average QB clean and he's going to make a lot more throws than a good QB who is constantly on the run.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 19, 2023, 02:11:21 PM
That's fair. I don't give him much blame for Darnold, but thinking Breshad Perriman was a proper WR1 for his 3rd season was an egregious decision.
Robby Anderson wasn’t either
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 19, 2023, 02:37:53 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 19, 2023, 02:43:13 PM
I just think we need to get someone prepared because if our OL is this bad, Wilson will probably get hurt again, too.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 19, 2023, 02:47:11 PM
if wilson get hurt and boyle gets hurt or is not ready, best believe randall cobb throwing 2 TDs
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 19, 2023, 03:16:35 PM
I don't have any confidence in Boyle, but he's been an NFL backup quarterback each of the last 4 years now. I don't see any reason to think random free agents off the street will be better than Boyle.
I just think we need to get someone prepared because if our OL is this bad, Wilson will probably get hurt again, too.
How much longer are we only going to roster 2 QBs for? We have question marks at starter and backup, it seems like a no brainer. Are they waiting for the right guy or the right opportunity in the season?
Post by: MBGreen on September 19, 2023, 03:32:15 PM
What’s the deal with backup QB lol?Tim Boyle
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 19, 2023, 03:32:56 PM
How much longer are we only going to roster 2 QBs for? We have question marks at starter and backup, it seems like a no brainer. Are they waiting for the right guy or the right opportunity in the season?Yeah I think you need someone. Any warm body
Post by: dcm1602 on September 19, 2023, 04:00:53 PM
But I imagine bringing in a guy, doing a physical, working out a contract (this is potentially a starting QB were talking about) means taking 2 weeks doesn't sound completely unrealistic.
Plus seeing Zach in action for 1-2 games will give a better idea of how freaking desperate we should be
Post by: Johnny English on September 19, 2023, 08:02:24 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 03:30:47 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 24, 2023, 03:42:58 PM
Probably a moot point anyways as that likely would have been very hard to maneuver financially, and we’d essentially have to quasi-release zach, as i don’t see how any team would have given up anything meaningful for him after last season.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 04:04:15 PM
If we were to go with rodgers the best thing to do in the qb room would have been to dump zach and keep mike white as backup.
Probably a moot point anyways as that likely would have been very hard to maneuver financially, and we’d essentially have to quasi-release zach, as i don’t see how any team would have given up anything meaningful for him after last season.
Trading Zach would've been a cap dump, for a guy that was a top 2 pick whose got 2 years on a rookie deal
I think a team could've justified taking a flier on him for a 6th or something
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 04:38:31 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 04:40:52 PM
Is there anyway we don't clean house next season if we don't have at least double digit wins?9-8 and a deep playoff run?
Otherwise, I think 2024 is a true playoff mandate, even if Rodgers is hurt again or washed.
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 04:41:50 PM
9-8 and a deep playoff run?When Rodgers went down, this season became a mulligan.
Otherwise, I think 2024 is a true playoff mandate, even if Rodgers is hurt again or washed.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 24, 2023, 04:45:11 PM
When Rodgers went down, this season became a mulligan.
Disagree completely
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 04:45:52 PM
Disagree completelyNeat
Post by: Libero_2 on September 24, 2023, 04:46:16 PM
When Rodgers went down, this season became a mulligan.
We have to be competitive. We can’t go 3-15 and get a mulligan.
8+ wins? Probably run it back with Rodgers.
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 04:49:24 PM
We have to be competitive. We can’t go 3-15 and get a mulligan.We're not competitive on the offensive side of the ball....by a country mile.
8+ wins? Probably run it back with Rodgers.
And the players already started bickering on the sidelines...
If we go 3-15 and Woody fires everyone, I won't shed a tear.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 04:49:39 PM
It shouldn't be a mulligan if they go 4-13. But it might be.
Post by: Miamipuck on September 24, 2023, 04:51:20 PM
When Rodgers went down, this season became a mulligan.
I kind of agree if you mean with Johnson- with me, for instance, they can freak off and die. I honestly would clean house.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 04:52:35 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 04:55:56 PM
I kind of agree if you mean with Johnson- with me, for instance, they can freak off and die. I honestly would clean house.I'd be fine with this...something needs to change.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 04:57:44 PM
The closest thing to a mulligan is the thought that they'll likely all be back next year because everyone's going to want to see what happens with a healthy Rodgers (and unless Rodgers declared he's retiring before the offseason I think that's enough to keep them around)
But there's no mulligan here, this teams leadership is freaking bad.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 05:09:23 PM
We're not competitive on the offensive side of the ball....by a country mile.
…. Because of the QB JD drafted #2, the OL JD built, and the OC JD hired …
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 24, 2023, 05:11:10 PM
…. Because of the QB JD drafted #2, the OL JD built, and the OC JD hired …
But we have the deepest defensive line in football!
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 05:11:50 PM
But it needs to be better than this, and it's all guys that Douglas has acquired. I don't think there's a single guy on offense that wasn't brought in by Douglas. The offensive line still being a problem years later is a nightmare.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 24, 2023, 05:13:25 PM
That’s on the GM.
Post by: Miamipuck on September 24, 2023, 05:14:49 PM
We’ve got 2 first rounders, a second rounder, and a high priced free agent starting on our offensive line …and the entire unit stinks.
That’s on the GM.
Yet there a Boner garage thread for him.
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 05:16:18 PM
…. Because of the QB JD drafted #2, the OL JD built, and the OC JD hired …
cool...fire him then.
I'm done defending this team.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 05:23:36 PM
Quarterback - no
Running back - Breece was a great pick, but it cost a high 2nd-round pick. Cook is looking like a bad signing. We also used 2 other picks on running backs. Douglas has done fine here, but we invested a lot of resources in this position, so it better be a good unit.
Wide receiver - Wilson is a stud. Corey Davis was largely a bust. Allen Lazard is a fine WR3 but I don't think he's a WR2. Mecole Hardman has been completely MIA. Denzel Mims was a high pick that has been a bust. I think this unit is missing a WR2.
Tight end - We have an average unit despite investing a lot of money into it. We also spent a 3rd-round pick who looks like our best blocking TE but barely gets on the field.
Offensive line - See above. Lots of resources invested for a decent unit that isn't great.
Defensive line - A ton invested in this unit. Franklin-Myers was an awesome find and one of JD's best moves. Lawson has been a bust, though that's largely injury. He inherited Quinnen. This is probably the 2nd-best job that JD has done, but we've spent two 1st-round picks, a high-priced FA, and several other resources.
Linebacker - Quincy was a great move. Mosley he inherited. He's gone relatively cheap at LB, which is fine with Mosley's contract. We took a ton of flyers at this position between late picks, UDFAs and Quincy, and he hit on one of them, which is good.
Cornerback - D.J. Reed is probably his best FA signing. I wanted Ekwonu over Sauce, but Sauce looks like a superstar, so great pick there. Carter has been good. Definitely his best work.
Safety - Whitehead was shaky last year, great against the Bills. Adams looks like a nice UDFA find. This unit hurt us in previous Douglas years, though hopefully it's looking good now.
Overall, some good, some bad. The Adams trade is one of the best moves any GM has made in the last decade, and we've capitalized off of it. That was kind of a no-brainer given the return, but Douglas negotiated the return, so he deserves full credit. However, the 2 biggest things he needed to address when he arrived are still major question marks in OL and QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 24, 2023, 05:25:53 PM
Post by: Jumbo on September 24, 2023, 05:26:46 PM
The roster is definitely in better shape than when he took over.
But how he has handled QB, even if we ignore Wilson being a bust, has been so mind-bogglingly bad overall. We arguably gave up too much in the Rodgers trade, even. And his handling of our backup situation has been incomprehensible multiple times, but especially this season.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 05:27:29 PM
He did address QB but that player only last 4 plays
He also crested that problem by trading Darnold and then making a QB pick worse than freaking Hackenberg
Post by: Heismanberg on September 24, 2023, 05:27:54 PM
He also crested that problem by trading Darnold and then making a QB pick worse than freaking Hackenberg
Shut the freak up
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 05:28:26 PM
Shut the freak up
I'm not saying he's a worse player, but at 2nd overall he's absolutely a worse pick
Post by: Miamipuck on September 24, 2023, 05:28:40 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 05:30:28 PM
Smalls don't forget the other bad 2nd round WR pick. excrement like that gas definitely hurt the team.Totally forgot about that guy.
I generally like Douglas, and this roster is in much better shape than it was before he got here. I just haven't bought into the cult of JD as much as others, and he needs to start taking some blame among Jets fans. Based on what I see on Twitter and elsewhere, it appears we're there. Losing to the Patriots (again) basically means Jets fans want blood everywhere, and rightfully so.
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 05:36:11 PM
But even i can see the heat should be turned up on him now.
Post by: reuben on September 24, 2023, 06:12:56 PM
And yes, I know Carr just got blown up, but at least he didn't freaking disintegrate the first time someone touched him, at least we would have had the resources to give him a better line, and at least the state of our franchise wouldn't depend on an old man bouncing back from a bombed Achilles.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 24, 2023, 06:31:28 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 24, 2023, 06:36:27 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 24, 2023, 07:20:46 PM
I don't think Douglas did much that we didn't all think was good at the time. It's just turned to excrement for whatever reason. It's extra frustrating because their team is playing horribly despite having the talent to play well. At least the Bears suck because their players are bad. It all comes back to losing Rodgers. He could have covered up a lot of this. Zach can't.
The Bears don’t have a bad roster. Fields sucks but they are talented.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 07:25:35 PM
The Bears don’t have a bad roster. Fields sucks but they are talented.I don't think they have a good roster either. They were the worst team in the NFL last season. And yes, Fields was terrible, but so was their defense and offensive line. They are better this year around Fields, but they still suck. Probably the worst team in the NFL right now.
Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 07:31:20 PM
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: Johnny English on September 24, 2023, 08:39:54 PM
We can’t go 3-15
Correct
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 09:45:34 PM
Post by: reuben on September 24, 2023, 09:50:36 PM
Mike White got 2 years, $8M. Dalvin Cook got 1 year, $7M.
Mike White TD's this season: 1
Zach Wilson TD's this season: 1
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 10:53:00 PM
But we have the deepest defensive line in football!
0 sacks on McCorckle with the weakest OL unit they’ve had in years
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 10:54:42 PM
cool...fire him then.
I'm done defending this team.
You were calling me out for “not having faith in him” (whatever that means) like a month ago
Stick to your guns
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 10:56:02 PM
Shut the freak up
So mad that Hack < Geno
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 10:57:18 PM
Mike White got 2 years, $8M. Dalvin Cook got 1 year, $7M.
I don’t think a single person on here said we should have brought Mike White back
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 24, 2023, 11:24:06 PM
I don’t think a single person on here said we should have brought Mike White back
i would not feel confident going into the season with zach as qb2 and first guy up if our QB1 went down. we'd essentially give up any potential offensive output that week unless we somehow transform into a rushing juggernaut with hall back at 100% full capacity and a drastically solidified OL, which has an iffy likelihood at this point. but i understand we'd be hamstrung by the cap ramifications of the QB room
the ideal situation would be to obtain QB1 (carr/garoppolo; i prefer carr after a cut), get mike white to agree to another backup money contract, and find a taker for zach.
we won't be able to obtain anything reasonable for zach at this point, so he'll still be here as our development. i hope we can find a third QB for that room that will be both affordable enough for our cap and can potentially give us a better shot at winning than if we had to roll a still unprepared zach out there
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 24, 2023, 11:25:14 PM
this should have been planned better
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 07:41:45 AM
You were calling me out for “not having faith in him” (whatever that means) like a month ago
Stick to your guns
you were right, and i was wrong.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 07:44:00 AM
But he's still better than Terry Bradway, Idzik and Duff. Tanny gets a pass because we went to the playoffs under his watch, but he ended up being shitty too, which is why nobody will hire him now.
If/when JD gets shown the door, i'll support the next guy too. JD came from the school of Ozzie Newsome, so i was pumped we hired him.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 07:48:17 AM
Was Zach terrible before meeting MLF, maybe...but he regressed considerably under MLF (this we have confirmation on). And Hackett is nothing without Rodgers (or so we think), he's shown that he can't turn Zach around either (so far).
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 25, 2023, 08:13:22 AM
SFD...as far as your argument for MLF not being the problem. He was a big problem here...players didn't like him, his playcalling and QB development was terrible, and the only reason he's still working in the NFL is because his brother is mudbudz with McVay.
Was Zach terrible before meeting MLF, maybe...but he regressed considerably under MLF (this we have confirmation on). And Hackett is nothing without Rodgers (or so we think), he's shown that he can't turn Zach around either (so far).
I don't really want to defend MLF because I didn't like him at all, and I don't know how I feel about Hackett, but I certainly didn't like his father.
Still, they've both been saddled with a QB who is inexplicably the only QB the head coach and GM will consider for the job (as long as a HoF QB is unavailable). I want Zach to be good. I've irrationally supported him because the HC & GM have committed to him. But he looks lost out there. Being the "only" option (what even is a Tim Boyle?) is on the guy in charge of the roster. A cook can only make meals with the ingredients they have on hand.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 08:19:04 AM
I don't really want to defend MLF because I didn't like him at all, and I don't know how I feel about Hackett, but I certainly didn't like his father.
Still, they've both been saddled with a QB who is inexplicably the only QB the head coach and GM will consider for the job (as long as a HoF QB is unavailable). I want Zach to be good. I've irrationally supported him because the HC & GM have committed to him. But he looks lost out there. Being the "only" option (what even is a Tim Boyle?) is on the guy in charge of the roster. A cook can only make meals with the ingredients they have on hand.
I'm literally just riding out the season now. Changes probably need to happen, but because we really don't know what we have in Rodgers, everything will probably reset as is for next season.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 25, 2023, 08:25:02 AM
I'm literally just riding out the season now. Changes probably need to happen, but because we really don't know what we have in Rodgers, everything will probably reset as is for next season.
They have to bring someone in. This roster isn't going to survive too many more games like yesterday. We're 3 games in and guys are fighting on the sidelines. Either they replace Wilson ASAP, or the next regime will be starting a rebuild without Rodgers in the plans in February.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 08:27:31 AM
They have to bring someone in. This roster isn't going to survive too many more games like yesterday. We're 3 games in and guys are fighting on the sidelines. Either they replace Wilson ASAP, or the next regime will be starting a rebuild without Rodgers in the plans in February.
They'll bring someone in, but it won't be anyone that can right the ship. QBs we need, teams don't make them available even for a ransom because their own fanbases will light them on fire....and the QBs available on the waiver wire are on the waiver wire for a reason.
This season is going to be one long punch in the face, unfortunately. JD put us here, he's certainly on the hook for this.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 08:34:36 AM
we really don't know what we have in Rodgers
I mean we have a 41 year old QB coming back from one of the worst injuries an athlete can suffer. We know that.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 08:41:12 AM
1. Ride it out with Zach no matter what unless he's so bad that they put in Boyle because it's embarrassing to Zach and the other players start getting pissed (like last year). Yes that would be tanking but since we have our first rounder back, it would be high. We also would avoid giving up a draft pick and/or paying a veteran QB that would at best help our other players mentally by being able to run an offense that resembles the NFL vaguely. I doubt we can sign anyone that will get us to the playoffs with our schedule. Can you imagine wasting several million dollars and/or a draft pick for a veteran QB to win 6 games?
2. Sign a veteran QB relatively soon. It would potentially give the team a boost and depending on who it is and how well they play, maybe win a few games and make the season interesting. However, we'd be spending money that could be used to help the team next year or potentially have to give up a draft pick.
The longer we keep losing, the less it makes sense to sign a veteran because it's a lost cause. If we still have 1 win at the bye, it's already over. No need to waste money. In fact, I'd look to accumulate some picks by unloading guys we aren't keeping next year, if there are any contracts where that makes sense.
Zach isn't making some magical transition into a good QB, probably not even decent. The best we can hope for is that he isn't bad enough to cause an uproar with the rest of the players. We need to find a way to keep the team on board for next year. If Rodgers is indeed coming back, no one is getting fired this off-season. This is the staff he wants (with the exception of maybe some lower rung staff).
If we could find a vet that costs a smaller amount, I'd be on board. Colt McCoy might come cheap. I don't think Matt Ryan is coming here for $2 million and most certainly isn't backing up Zach. I think he still wants to play though, so who knows.
If we are signing a vet, we can't wait several more games. I think this is Zach's last week unless he has a decent game.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 08:41:33 AM
I mean we have a 41 year old QB coming back from one of the worst injuries an athlete can suffer. We know that.
Yeah
I meant what he could do for us on the field. That's still the unknown.
We have to burn another season to find out if he still has "it" or if he's cooked.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 08:44:40 AM
What does JD do at this point regarding QB?
1. Ride it out with Zach no matter what unless he's so bad that they put in Boyle because it's embarrassing to Zach and the other players start getting pissed (like last year). Yes that would be tanking but since we have our first rounder back, it would be high. We also would avoid giving up a draft pick and/or paying a veteran QB that would at best help our other players mentally by being able to run an offense that resembles the NFL vaguely. I doubt we can sign anyone that will get us to the playoffs with our schedule. Can you imagine wasting several million dollars and/or a draft pick for a veteran QB to win 6 games?
2. Sign a veteran QB relatively soon. It would potentially give the team a boost and depending on who it is and how well they play, maybe win a few games and make the season interesting. However, we'd be spending money that could be used to help the team next year or potentially have to give up a draft pick.
The longer we keep losing, the less it makes sense to sign a veteran because it's a lost cause. If we still have 1 win at the bye, it's already over. No need to waste money. In fact, I'd look to accumulate some picks by unloading guys we aren't keeping next year, if there are any contracts where that makes sense.
Zach isn't making some magical transition into a good QB, probably not even decent. The best we can hope for is that he isn't bad enough to cause an uproar with the rest of the players. We need to find a way to keep the team on board for next year. If Rodgers is indeed coming back, no one is getting fired this off-season. This is the staff he wants (with the exception of maybe some lower rung staff).
If we could find a vet that costs a smaller amount, I'd be on board. Colt McCoy might come cheap. I don't think Matt Ryan is coming here for $2 million and most certainly isn't backing up Zach. I think he still wants to play though, so who knows.
If we are signing a vet, we can't wait several more games. I think this is Zach's last week unless he has a decent game.
good post
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 08:44:56 AM
We have to burn another season to find out if he still has "it" or if he's cooked.
Do we?
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 08:45:37 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 08:47:55 AM
Do we?
I think we have a long time to see how Rodgers is healing and where his mind is before April. Hell he might just retire and make that decision for us. If he's recovers well I think you have to give him another year.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 08:54:03 AM
Do we?
it looks that way
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 08:54:41 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 09:00:12 AM
I'm betting Douglas has already been laying the groundwork for a veteran QB.
I'm not making this bet.
I hope he does something though.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 09:10:19 AM
I'm not making this bet.
I hope he does something though.
If he can be had for a decent price, I'd want Matt Ryan. He's a free agent, so no picks need to be given up. He played well for a long time, and is a high completion percentage guy. I'd trust him more than Wentz.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 09:11:16 AM
Having 2 quarterbacks on the roster recently has made zero sense. I don't expect anyone good. Find some young quarterback who got cut somewhere. Bring someone in. I don't care who. They don't need to start right away. They don't need to start ever. But you need to keep taking looks at guys and maybe you find something.
Josh Dobbs was acquired 2 weeks before Week 1 and he's been OK. Baker Mayfield was signed like 2 days before a game last year for the Rams and won. Figure something out.
I think Zach starts the KC game, largely out of necessity and because you can always go to Boyle later. But his leash should not be 4 quarters anymore.
Every FA quarterback sucks, but terrible might be an upgrade...
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 09:22:51 AM
Every FA quarterback sucks, but terrible might be an upgrade...
Saleh/Douglas have to find their Ray Lucas
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 09:27:05 AM
It's just amazing how Douglas is willing to let himself stay on the hot seat because of Wilson.
Having 2 quarterbacks on the roster recently has made zero sense. I don't expect anyone good. Find some young quarterback who got cut somewhere. Bring someone in. I don't care who. They don't need to start right away. They don't need to start ever. But you need to keep taking looks at guys and maybe you find something.
Josh Dobbs was acquired 2 weeks before Week 1 and he's been OK. Baker Mayfield was signed like 2 days before a game last year for the Rams and won. Figure something out.
I think Zach starts the KC game, largely out of necessity and because you can always go to Boyle later. But his leash should not be 4 quarters anymore.
Every FA quarterback sucks, but terrible might be an upgrade...
I don't want just anyone. I don't want to trade for anyone unless it's a late round pick and I don't want to sign a vet for $8 million. That's a short list, might even be and empty list. I'd go after Matt Ryan, but that may not work out. He would give me some hope at least. He's old and a statue but he's operated very good offense for a long time.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 09:29:24 AM
I don't want just anyone. I don't want to trade for anyone unless it's a late round pick and I don't want to sign a vet for $8 million. That's a short list.
this.
I'm not giving up that 1st rounder in a QB/OL rich draft. If they want to trade from the 2025 draft class, ok. But trading the one premium pick we have in 2024 for 2/3 of a season is a dealbreaker.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 09:31:07 AM
this.
I'm not giving up that 1st rounder in a QB/OL rich draft. If they want to trade from the 2025 draft class, ok. But trading the one premium pick we have in 2024 for 2/3 of a season is a dealbreaker.
I don't think anyone is considering the Jets give up a high pick. I wouldn't want to even give up a mid round pick. I don't think there's anyone worth trading for. Lots of these teams rightfully don't want to give up a good backup because they need one if they are a playoff team. How many good 3rd stringers are out there?
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 09:33:53 AM
this.Nobody wants to give a 1st rounder for a quarterback.
I'm not giving up that 1st rounder in a QB/OL rich draft. If they want to trade from the 2025 draft class, ok. But trading the one premium pick we have in 2024 for 2/3 of a season is a dealbreaker.
I was hoping the Jets could get to the bye at 3-3 and make a move for some vet that becomes available, whether that's Cousins, Tannehill, Minshew, whoever. Some team with a vet QB would be 1-5 and willing to sell then when they wouldn't be at 1-2. I don't think that would have cost a 1st at the deadline, though it might cost a 1st now, and that's why I didn't want to make a move now.
But if we're 1-5, then there's no point. 2-4 is borderline, but even at 2-4, I don't know if I want to give up a 3rd for someone.
And there's no reason we should have waited that long to do SOMETHING. Sign a Josh Johnson or some random vet QB. Sign a Bryce Perkins or John Wolford or Brett Rypien or random QB that was in camp somewhere and got cut. Someone like that should have been signed a week ago. I don't even expect them to be better than Boyle, but we need to build up as many cheap insurance policies as we can.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 25, 2023, 09:37:07 AM
The couple of guys the Jets reached out to didn't want to come because they were told they'd be backing up Wilson. Douglas can call them back today and say "Forget what I said, you're the starter. Can you be here by lunch?"
But if they can get Cousins, and it costs the first rounder, they have to do it. There is no next year for this regime if this team is drafting at the top of the draft.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 09:39:33 AM
Douglas and Saleh have another week or two to get this figured out or there won't be a next year for either of them.
Buddy, we're not figuring anything out against Kansas City.
We are going to get boat raced on national television.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 09:39:52 AM
This idea of dealbreakers to save the season is ridiculous. Douglas and Saleh have another week or two to get this figured out or there won't be a next year for either of them. The locker room is already out of patience. We're seeing week 14 fights on the sideline in week 3. These players remember last season, and it already feels like an extension of it.I'd only give up a 1st for a long-term solution. Cousins theoretically could be that, but it's so complicated with Rodgers' situation.
The couple of guys the Jets reached out to didn't want to come because they were told they'd be backing up Wilson. Douglas can call them back today and say "Forget what I said, you're the starter. Can you be here by lunch?"
But if they can get Cousins, and it costs the first rounder, they have to do it. There is no next year for this regime if this team is drafting at the top of the draft.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 09:41:04 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 09:43:40 AM
Saleh and Douglas aren't going anywhere as long as Rodgers is still willing to play next year.Just need a bare minimum of competency. I think 4 wins is probably enough. If we get 3 wins and end up with a top 3 pick, then all bets are off IMO. Who knows with Woody though. Woody probably does whatever it takes to keep Rodgers, but if you have a top-3 pick, that could change things.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 09:44:07 AM
But if they can get Cousins, and it costs the first rounder, they have to do it.
No they don't. Because if Cousins comes here and we continue to lose then we've dug ourselves a bigger hole.
Our oline stinks, next year's draft is loaded at OL....we need that pick, because we don't have a 2nd rounder.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 09:44:13 AM
We are going to get boat raced on national television.
Yep. Any win by less than 2 TDs would be a miracle, but weirder things have happened. Maybe Mahomes gets hurt.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 09:45:25 AM
Say we end up with a top draft pick and Rodgers comes back. Could we not just trade that pick for a king's ransom?
We'd be morons to not draft Williams or Maye or even Harrison Jr. but you could get a haul for a Top 3 pick.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
Maybe Mahomes gets hurt.
Hopefully it's Jackson Mahomes
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 09:46:09 AM
One scenario we haven't talked about yet...
Say we end up with a top draft pick and Rodgers comes back. Could we not just trade that pick for a king's ransom?
i'd be all over this
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 25, 2023, 09:47:26 AM
Buddy, we're not figuring anything out against Kansas City.
We are going to get boat raced on national television.
Yeah, but if you get someone into the building today or tomorrow, you start working on the solution. My phrasing was off, but my point is that they only have a couple of weeks before the entire locker room is in revolt.
Sunday night is going to be a horror movie.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 09:48:53 AM
One scenario we haven't talked about yet...It's so early and so many moving parts between now and then.
Say we end up with a top draft pick and Rodgers comes back. Could we not just trade that pick for a king's ransom?
I'm sure they could. But if you get in position to draft the elite QB prospect, it's hard to pass them up. If Rodgers comes back and isn't the same, and the QB we trade out of looks like a star, that would haunt this franchise for decades.
I'm always fine trading down because there are many ways to make trade downs successful. I don't really love talking about these scenarios now because a lot of things can change between now and January.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 09:49:08 AM
Obviously this depends on what happens with Rodgers.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 09:49:42 AM
Yeah, but if you get someone into the building today or tomorrow, you start working on the solution. My phrasing was off, but my point is that they only have a couple of weeks before the entire locker room is in revolt.
Sunday night is going to be a horror movie.
I don't have any concern for Zach's feelings anymore. People get run out of the league all the time. Get busy living or get busy dying. Sign a vet now and let Zach dig his grave this weekend.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 09:50:25 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 25, 2023, 09:52:22 AM
It doesn't matter if Woody wants this staff to stay. If the players stop putting in effort, it's over for them. Dangling the Rodgers carrot isn't going to save the messaging because the message will have already been "You guys can put in max effort for 6 months this year, but since we don't have a QB, you'll just have to risk injury for an IOU."
Post by: Coach K on September 25, 2023, 09:52:48 AM
Just like JD did in having a backup qb ready for worst case scenario .
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 09:54:21 AM
Idk wtf it takes to fit a custom image into the damn avatar I just spent 10 mins resizing loke 10 pics and I give up
Just like JD did in having a backup qb ready for worst case scenario .
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
lmao
set the avatar sizing at 150 x 150...and you're golden. This can be done in MS Paint.
Post by: Coach K on September 25, 2023, 10:12:54 AM
lmaoI'm on my phone idc enough to boot up my pc for this lol
set the avatar sizing at 150 x 150...and you're golden. This can be done in MS Paint.
I'll just keep pretending I'm the biggest fan of tbe guy
All jokes aside it's malpractice if they don't have someone else under center asap
I truly don't care if it's Boyle. Wilson is done whether we ruined him or nobody is helping him .
It's a chicken and egg debate at this point between OL playcalling drops and key throw windows not taken advantage of none of the offense is in sync
Locker room is about to melt down . I value garrett wilson far more than zach and if JD is gonna die on this hill because of a 10 pick difference between these two players it's pure ego at this point.
I can deal with growing pains considering tbe kid wasnt developed properly. I can't deal with a top 10 talent at WR wasting away.
Most teams backups would at least be able to feed wilson and even if it leads to an INT they'll throw a TD or two
Pretty sure I heard a media member say "no guarantee but I'm not a lip reader but I saw the sidelines and I'm almost certain garrett wilson screamed 'he can't throw the ball!' At Hackett.
When your 3rd string RB is yelling at a RB coach when you're OT who kicked and screamed to be at LT is throwing his helmet in frustration on his first start at LT
Shits gonna go nuclear soon and we're gonna be an even bigger laughing stock because usually it's hopeful fans like us that hype this team
The league and media pitched tbe tents ans made it a circus .
We were knee deep in elephant excrement cleaning up peanut shells 4 snaps in
We're gonna go up there with the Vince Young eagles and early 00 redskins as the worst paper Champs ever lol
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Post by: Jumbo on September 25, 2023, 10:35:43 AM
I'm still just shocked we went 2 weeks with a Wilson-Boyle QB room and they FO thought that was wholly acceptable.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 10:44:17 AM
One QB suggestion I've seen thrown about that I think is a good idea is trying to sign Nathan Rourke off the Jags PS. Still young, looked good in (and had the play of) the preseason, did well in his time starting in other leagues. Odds are he's nothing but no harm in taking a shot on a guy like that.
I'm still just shocked we went 2 weeks with a Wilson-Boyle QB room and they FO thought that was wholly acceptable.
I've watched Nathan Rourke play in the CFL...he's very good. I didn't push for him here because i'm still getting raked over the coals for Chris Strevler lol (and rightly so, even tho he's a legend in Wpg).
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 10:55:24 AM
I've watched Nathan Rourke play in the CFL...he's very good. I didn't push for him here because i'm still getting raked over the coals for Chris Strevler lol (and rightly so, even tho he's a legend in Wpg).Streveler was maybe the most inaccurate quarterback I have ever seen and is not an NFL quarterback.
And I still might prefer him over Wilson.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 10:57:25 AM
I would have been fine signing some random vet free agent that doesn't need to be on the 53-man because maybe Wilson would have turned the corner, and you don't want to use the roster spot on that guy like Rourke.
But now that Wilson seems to be a disaster (again), there is no reason we shouldn't explore bringing in another young quarterback like a Rourke.
Post by: MBGreen on September 25, 2023, 11:09:40 AM
Rourke is a perfect example of a guy we should have tried to sign already.
I would have been fine signing some random vet free agent that doesn't need to be on the 53-man because maybe Wilson would have turned the corner, and you don't want to use the roster spot on that guy like Rourke.
But now that Wilson seems to be a disaster (again), there is no reason we shouldn't explore bringing in another young quarterback like a Rourke.
In the CFL, Rourke had that "it" factor. Big arm, could make plays out of nothing...like a CFL version of Big Ben.
Some of that translated into the preseason. I thought for sure another team would've grabbed him off the Jags practice squad by now.
Yeah, i realize what Streveler is. He's shown flashes in the CFL, but he's basically a white Justin Fields....he's still not the answer, even over Zach Wilson.
Post by: Badger on September 25, 2023, 07:00:35 PM
Shits gonna go nuclear soon and we're gonna be an even bigger laughing stock because usually it's hopeful fans like us that hype this team
The league and media pitched tbe tents ans made it a circus .
We were knee deep in elephant excrement cleaning up peanut shells 4 snaps in
We're gonna go up there with the Vince Young eagles and early 00 redskins as the worst paper Champs ever lol
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 25, 2023, 10:10:41 PM
One QB suggestion I've seen thrown about that I think is a good idea is trying to sign Nathan Rourke off the Jags PS. Still young, looked good in (and had the play of) the preseason, did well in his time starting in other leagues. Odds are he's nothing but no harm in taking a shot on a guy like that.
I'm still just shocked we went 2 weeks with a Wilson-Boyle QB room and they FO thought that was wholly acceptable.
If we don’t have a 3rd QB on the roster within the next week or so, Joe Douglas has officially entered shitting his pants on the job territory
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 25, 2023, 10:13:47 PM
Rourke is a perfect example of a guy we should have tried to sign already.
I would have been fine signing some random vet free agent that doesn't need to be on the 53-man because maybe Wilson would have turned the corner, and you don't want to use the roster spot on that guy like Rourke.
But now that Wilson seems to be a disaster (again), there is no reason we shouldn't explore bringing in another young quarterback like a Rourke.
We should have a 3rd QB and a practice squad QB and the only reason I can come up with is that they don’t want to distract Zach or lower his confidence
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 10:53:10 PM
I don't expect a starter. I expect Douglas to be making phone calls for potential starters and potential backups from other 53-man rosters or practice squads or the free agent wire.
I thought someone should have been brought in 2 weeks ago. There's no reason it should affect Zach's confidence to bring a 3rd body in. If it does, we have bigger issues. But you also need that insurance policy, even if Zach ends up not playing badly.
If we don't bring someone in now, I have a lot of questions.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 05:19:02 PM
So did we just overestimate our WRs or were they only going to be good for Rodgers? There is a lot of veteran presence/locker room assets on the offense between Lazard, Cobb, and Uzomah, yet we’re still blowing up on the sidelines (apparently, I stopped watching in the first half).
Post by: Johnny English on September 26, 2023, 05:20:58 PM
Blaming things that aren’t Zach:
So did we just overestimate our WRs or were they only going to be good for Rodgers? There is a lot of veteran presence/locker room assets on the offense between Lazard, Cobb, and Uzomah, yet we’re still blowing up on the sidelines (apparently, I stopped watching in the first half).
Two of those dropped passes they should have held on Sunday, and the other caught his first pass of the year. If they're not providing help in the locker room then you have to question why they're there, because they sure as freak aren't helping on the field.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2023, 05:23:59 PM
Blaming things that aren’t Zach:We have a below average receiving corps. Wilson is a very good WR1. Lazard isn't a good enough WR2. Hardman/Cobb are not good enough WR3s. Conklin is a below average TE1.
So did we just overestimate our WRs or were they only going to be good for Rodgers? There is a lot of veteran presence/locker room assets on the offense between Lazard, Cobb, and Uzomah, yet we’re still blowing up on the sidelines (apparently, I stopped watching in the first half).
When Corey Davis was on the roster, I thought we might have enough to play matchups to make it work. It looked like Odell Beckham was the plan to mix into that group in the offseason, until the Ravens overpaid for him. So we never got that 4th guy to make it a deep room.
Then when you take Rodgers out of the equation, the room looks worse. It's not an atrocious room because Wilson is very good and Lazard is a decent enough WR3. But we are 1 man short in the WR room.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
Lazard isn't a good enough WR2.
He's fine. He blocks his derriere off, he lines up in the right place, and he doesn't get penalties. He also has elite size and seems to be a good character guy.
Our quarterback has been very, very inconsistent.
We're one man short in the room because Corey Davis retired abruptly.
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 05:29:06 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 05:29:12 PM
Two of those dropped passes they should have held on Sunday, and the other caught his first pass of the year. If they're not providing help in the locker room then you have to question why they're there, because they sure as freak aren't helping on the field.
Maybe collecting a 39 year old’s best friends and trying to turn that into a roster wasn’t the best move.
I’ll also say that spending $44million on two TEs we barely featured across two offenses is some serious overcorrecting.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 05:29:59 PM
It's a little concerning that we went out in FA and signed Hardman, and our CS doesn't know how to use him.
We can’t use him because of how we have to align.
I’d rather Gipson get snaps over Hardman and Cobb at this point.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 05:30:42 PM
He’s slow and he’s been mediocre as a blocker.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 05:32:12 PM
It's a little concerning that we went out in FA and signed Hardman, and our CS doesn't know how to use him.
Yeah I don’t know what the deal is here. He doesn’t do returns and I haven’t seen him on coverage teams so I don’t get why we went out that hard for him.
Even if there was supposed to be more work for him in the Rodgers offense you think having a fast, shifty player in the slot would be more of a help.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2023, 05:32:24 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2023, 05:32:48 PM
Yeah I don’t know what the deal is here. He doesn’t do returns and I haven’t seen him on coverage teams so I don’t get why we went out that hard for him.The Chiefs couldn't figure out how to use him either.
Even if there was supposed to be more work for him in the Rodgers offense you think having a fast, shifty player in the slot would be more of a help.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 05:33:08 PM
I’d rather Gipson get snaps over Hardman and Cobb at this point.
Either him or Brownlee. At least Zach was throwing at him in TC.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 05:36:09 PM
Uzomah getting time over Ruckert is criminal. I'm not one saying we need to bench all of our older players for young guys. Except in the Uzomah/Ruckert case. Uzomah should be TE3. Are we even sure he's better than Yeboah at this point?
He’s only a $6million dead cap hit next season so hopefully he doesn’t stick around for the remainder of that contract.
I know he’s supposed to be a good locker room guy but he’s not worth it for this money. Also, thanks to their restructures, he and Conklin won’t be off our salary cap until 2027.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2023, 05:37:26 PM
He’s only a $6million dead cap hit next season so hopefully he doesn’t stick around for the remainder of that contract.Douglas has had some bad contracts. Uzomah is probably the worst one. Having him have $6M in dead cap in Year 3 when he was a below average starter in Cincy is criminally bad.
I know he’s supposed to be a good locker room guy but he’s not worth it for this money. Also, thanks to their restructures, he and Conklin won’t be off our salary cap until 2027.
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 05:43:09 PM
Uzomah might be the worst player on our offense.
He’s slow and he’s been mediocre as a blocker.
And he has dumb hair
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 05:49:15 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 05:54:47 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 05:56:04 PM
Roster management has been an issue since he’s been here. The Oline haw been an issue since he’s been here. He and Saleh have tied themselves to Wilson’s success, or lack thereof. There are several reasons for him to be on the hot seat after this season, Saleh as well.
I've been a jets fan for about 28 years....roster management has been an issue for probably 25 of them.
i also agree with your post.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 05:59:22 PM
I've been a jets fan for about 28 years....roster management has been an issue for probably 25 of them.
i also agree with your post.
I just don’t remember a year where our top two picks were healthy scratches in the beginning of the season.
Post by: Coach K on September 26, 2023, 06:00:11 PM
Uzomah might be the worst player on our offense.It's infuriating to watch . Especially when you've got decent draft capital on a TE who is clearly a better blocker and your OL is struggling
He’s slow and he’s been mediocre as a blocker.
Not feeling very tuggalicious right now
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Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 06:02:09 PM
It's infuriating to watch . Especially when you've got decent draft capital on a TE who is clearly a better blocker and your OL is struggling
Not feeling very tuggalicious right now
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I feel like Saleh just has this loyalty to older players just because they are older. Like he thinks they’re just going to experience themselves into executing even when they’ve been underperforming their entire tenure on the team.
Post by: Coach K on September 26, 2023, 06:04:04 PM
I just don’t remember a year where our top two picks were healthy scratches in the beginning of the season.You'll understand it all once we've got 12 pass rushing phenoms
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Post by: Coach K on September 26, 2023, 06:04:41 PM
I feel like Saleh just has this loyalty to older players just because they are older. Like he thinks they’re just going to experience themselves into executing even when they’ve been underperforming their entire tenure on the team.Yeah hes giving off Rex vibes in the too many opportunities for under performing vets category
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Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 06:06:03 PM
Douglas has had some bad contracts. Uzomah is probably the worst one. Having him have $6M in dead cap in Year 3 when he was a below average starter in Cincy is criminally bad.
Laken Tomlinson's contract is worse
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 06:07:18 PM
Laken Tomlinson's contract is worse
Also on the books until 2027.
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
We can’t use him because of how we have to align.We seem to have an unnecessarily tight rotation. Like an NBA playoff team where only 1-2 guys come off the bench at most.
I’d rather Gipson get snaps over Hardman and Cobb at this point.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 06:07:31 PM
We're basically rebuilding the scheme right now, so maybe things change over the next few weeks but they were swings that we just missed on as of right now.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 06:08:18 PM
We seem to have an unnecessarily tight rotation. Like an NBA playoff team where only 1-2 guys come off the bench at most.
It's been the way under Saleh. He loves rotating his defensive linemen all game but can't rotate anyone else.
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2023, 06:15:33 PM
You'll understand it all once we've got 12 pass rushing phenoms12 men on the field
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5 yard penalty
Repeat first down
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 06:17:15 PM
Dalvin Cook and Mecole Hardman are outta here after this season. They were mercenary rentals that just might not work out.
We're basically rebuilding the scheme right now, so maybe things change over the next few weeks but they were swings that we just missed on as of right now.
They might figure out what to do with Cook and Hardman. Cook working out is going to rely on the OLine actually gelling into a cohesive unit. Not even Breece is doing much right now. Hardman is going to depend on how whoever we have under center performs. If Zach is still slow to read the offense and misses open WRs, then it really won’t matter.
If they don’t work out, I can see an argument for having them give way to the younger players later in the season. One year rentals aren’t going to factor into next season’s plans but getting Abanikanda, Gipson, and Brownlee some reps even in garbage time games would be a better investment.
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2023, 06:18:13 PM
Laken Tomlinson's contract is worse
Also on the books until 2027.Did anyone actually call this? I feel like the worst case scenario when we signed him is that he'd be an OK player who's a bit overpaid and instead he's been actually bad.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 06:20:05 PM
Did anyone actually call this? I feel like the worst case scenario when we signed him is that he'd be an OK player who's a bit overpaid and instead he's been actually bad.
I did not think it would be this bad. The 2027 bit was the restructure that he, Uzomah, Conklin, and I think Davis all signed at the beginning of the season as the first step to clearing room for Rodgers and Q.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 26, 2023, 07:29:33 PM
We can’t use him because of how we have to align.
I’d rather Gipson get snaps over Hardman and Cobb at this point.
Yes! Why is Gipson not getting more reps? That run in the first game was magic, it's probably not repeating itself. So let someone else return kicks and get Gip involved.
I'd also like to know why Brownlee made the team if he's never going to play.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 26, 2023, 07:29:46 PM
I like Joe Douglas. Despite his recent missteps, he's done some positive stuff here (in comparison to what we're used e.g Terry Bradway, Tanny, Duff and Idzik). But if he can't turn it around, he's done here. Woody didn't hire him, and even if Woody likes him the fanbase will be out for blood, and if we're picking high (top 3 per se), i doubt he'll be afforded the chance to draft another potential franchise QB (if that's the direction we go in). Rodgers coming back might give him a free pass, but even that assumption is on shaky ground.
That's an awfully low bar.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 07:40:42 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on September 27, 2023, 12:23:34 PM
Yes! Why is Gipson not getting more reps? That run in the first game was magic, it's probably not repeating itself. So let someone else return kicks and get Gip involved.
I'd also like to know why Brownlee made the team if he's never going to play.
He has had a few returns that were pretty damn good. He had two ìn Sundays debacle where you can see he has a chance to be at the very least a special return guy.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 12:39:28 PM
I’m still trying to figure out why we were so happy when Douglas let JFM turn 6 sacks between 2020 and 2021 (he signed his extension in week 5) into $55million.
JFM is actually good.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2023, 01:08:04 PM
JFM is actually good.
Why do you never answer the question that I actually ask?
He's a support DT getting paid like not a support DT.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2023, 01:11:11 PM
Why do you never answer the question that I actually ask?You didn't ask a question. And if you did, the answer would be "because he's actually good."
He's a support DT getting paid like not a support DT.
He might be a little overpaid, but I'm not really worried about his contract.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 01:12:28 PM
Why do you never answer the question that I actually ask?
He's a support DT getting paid like not a support DT.
He's a starting defensive end that can play anywhere on our defensive line.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2023, 01:13:50 PM
You didn't ask a question. And if you did, the answer would be "because he's actually good."
He might be a little overpaid, but I'm not really worried about his contract.
Why do you not know what a question is?
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2023, 01:15:08 PM
He's a starting defensive end that can play anywhere on our defensive line.
He's a redundancy.
Post by: MBGreen on September 27, 2023, 01:16:21 PM
He's a redundancy.
at least you're getting your tote bag back
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 01:19:05 PM
He's a redundancy.
Who else do we have on the roster aside from Q that can do what he does?
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2023, 01:24:55 PM
Why do you not know what a question is?Typically questions end in question marks and aren't declarative statements.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/question
Post by: Badger on September 27, 2023, 01:33:07 PM
Why do you not know what a question is?It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2023, 01:55:34 PM
He has had a few returns that were pretty damn good. He had two ìn Sundays debacle where you can see he has a chance to be at the very least a special return guy.
As someone who bitched non-stop in past years about our fair catch return squad, it pains me to say take Gipson out of the mix, but he could be a huge weapon on offense. And really, they don't need to take him out of the mix for returns, but I always worry when guys pull that double-duty.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2023, 02:32:23 PM
Who else do we have on the roster aside from Q that can do what he does?
Is what he can do for the defense working? He's a flex who's good against the run and occasionally gets mismatch opportunities in pass rushing situations but for the most part he's one of our EDGE rushers who are great at not getting to the QB in time. He's been treated as a key feature in a defense that was mid at best at getting off of the field on third down since he's been here. I know it's not all on the DLine but some of it definitely should be. Q is the closest thing we have to a HOF player on that side of the ball right now but everyone else is definitely up for scrutiny and JFM's pay to production ratio isn't great (FTR: I think Carl Lawson's is definitely worse).
My problem overall is how much we have invested into the DLine but he's not worth the space he's occupying on the cap. Maybe he needs to be on the field more to be more effective and we should scale back the DLine and the all-important rotation so he has more opportunities on the field. Maybe we didn't need to draft two EDGE players in the first round in consecutive seasons if we aren't going to commit to giving them both the playing time to develop. All I know is that we've sunk a lot of FA contracts and draft picks into the front 4 and we're not a world-beating pass rush. You don't spend that much capital just to be good against the run.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 02:53:15 PM
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Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 02:58:35 PM
Is what he can do for the defense working? He's a flex who's good against the run and occasionally gets mismatch opportunities in pass rushing situations but for the most part he's one of our EDGE rushers who are great at not getting to the QB in time. He's been treated as a key feature in a defense that was mid at best at getting off of the field on third down since he's been here. I know it's not all on the DLine but some of it definitely should be. Q is the closest thing we have to a HOF player on that side of the ball right now but everyone else is definitely up for scrutiny and JFM's pay to production ratio isn't great (FTR: I think Carl Lawson's is definitely worse).
My problem overall is how much we have invested into the DLine but he's not worth the space he's occupying on the cap. Maybe he needs to be on the field more to be more effective and we should scale back the DLine and the all-important rotation so he has more opportunities on the field. Maybe we didn't need to draft two EDGE players in the first round in consecutive seasons if we aren't going to commit to giving them both the playing time to develop. All I know is that we've sunk a lot of FA contracts and draft picks into the front 4 and we're not a world-beating pass rush. You don't spend that much capital just to be good against the run.
The guy is making half of what elite defensive linemen make.
He's valuable in a scheme like ours because we don't blitz. He can anchor the edge and push the pocket. Our run defense is stout up front partially because of what he provides inside/out. I don't view him as a pass rusher.
McDonald and Lawson are pass rushers.
JFM is consistently solid and dependable. You retain and pay guys like that.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 02:59:56 PM
I'm honestly more bothered we drafted a DE 1st rd who hasn't been a mainstay in rotation .
It's the same way that Jermaine Johnson was deployed as a rookie.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2023, 03:43:12 PM
The guy is making half of what elite defensive linemen make.
He's valuable in a scheme like ours because we don't blitz. He can anchor the edge and push the pocket. Our run defense is stout up front partially because of what he provides inside/out. I don't view him as a pass rusher.
McDonald and Lawson are pass rushers.
JFM is consistently solid and dependable. You retain and pay guys like that.
His average salary makes him the 15th highest paid DE in the league. If he was a DT he'd hold the same slot. He's a role player.
For all of JD's talk about not going above a player's ceiling, it's getting really difficult to say he's placing those ceilings accurately.
It's the same way that Jermaine Johnson was deployed as a rookie.
No one should have been happy with that, either.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 03:44:25 PM
No one should have been happy with that, either.
It didn't hurt us
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 03:45:01 PM
His average salary makes him the 15th highest paid DE in the league. If he was a DT he'd hold the same slot. He's a role player.
He's not a role player. He's a solid starter that would start for most of the teams in the league.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2023, 04:03:26 PM
He's not a role player. He's a solid starter that would start for most of the teams in the league.
Starter is a very relative term in this defense.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 04:28:08 PM
It's the same way that Jermaine Johnson was deployed as a rookie.That's cool but in an all in season that's not acceptable to me
Like the player but I assumed he'd at least get snaps and he was drafted much higher as well
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Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 04:28:43 PM
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Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 04:29:25 PM
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Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 04:30:43 PM
Long as they can start getting anything resembling a professional offense to show up soon
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Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 04:32:16 PM
That's cool but in an all in season that's not acceptable to me
You should never draft for all-in.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 04:40:17 PM
You should never draft for all-in.Pretty sure an extra OL or WR would be more use than the DE7 in a rotation rotting away
And you can still argue those would be long yerm investments now
But then again nobody saw Davis retiring so there's some leeway on that philosophy .
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Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2023, 05:09:38 PM
Pretty sure an extra OL or WR would be more use than the DE7 in a rotation rotting awayAnyone we would have taken with that pick would have been a rotational player. If Davis didn't retire, a WR would be sitting on the bench watching and playing a handful of plays. Just like McDonald. Most of the OL we would have taken were gone. Tippman also needed an injury to crack the lineup.
And you can still argue those would be long yerm investments now
But then again nobody saw Davis retiring so there's some leeway on that philosophy .
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The other guy the Jets apparently wanted was a tight end, who would also be a rotational player (and would have me about 8x angrier at Douglas than I am).
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 05:09:45 PM
Pretty sure an extra OL or WR would be more use than the DE7 in a rotation rotting away
1. We drafted Joe Tippmann in the next round. All of the top tackles were off the board before the McDonald pick.
2. What use is another receiver in this offense now? We also had a rotation of Wilson/Lazard/Davis/Hardman before the draft, so at that time, we were drafting a WR4 in the first round. You guys can beg for JSN all you want. He hasn't done a damn thing except pout in Seattle.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 05:13:50 PM
1. We drafted Joe Tippmann in the next round. All of the top tackles were off the board before the McDonald pick.Nah that's why I added the caveat for Davis .
2. What use is another receiver in this offense now? We also had a rotation of Wilson/Lazard/Davis/Hardman before the draft, so at that time, we were drafting a WR4 in the first round. You guys can beg for JSN all you want. He hasn't done a damn thing except pout in Seattle.
But I refuse to believe Lawson deserves snaps over MCD
Again my thing is there's guys who seem to be getting snaps on salary instead of ability and I'm not gonna be sold on that making any sense
The rest is MMQB at this point . As I said I love MCD but if we're not gonna use him still seems a poor use of resources
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Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2023, 05:15:28 PM
I don't know what things looked like in camp. If McDonalds were clearly better than Lawson, then he should play. But we don't know that.
Even Garrett Wilson was eased in until he showed that he needed to play a ton.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2023, 05:18:29 PM
If we don't turn things around, we could see a fire sale near the deadline. That's when you unload guys like Bryce Huff and Carl Lawson.
Being upset about depth is wild. We are bad in so many other places.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 05:18:31 PM
It's 3 weeks into the season and he's a rookie. I don't understand why everyone is panicking over the snap counts this early in the season. Most rookies start slow and are incorporated slowly.Even if I concede on MCD there's 0 justification for ruckert not being out there
I don't know what things looked like in camp. If McDonalds were clearly better than Lawson, then he should play. But we don't know that.
Even Garrett Wilson was eased in until he showed that he needed to play a ton.
Especially since we can't block for excrement
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Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2023, 05:21:38 PM
Even if I concede on MCD there's 0 justification for ruckert not being out thereI look at Ruckert in a different boat. He's in Year 2. He's been here for a year, and he's flashed at a high level in the preseason and regular season. I'm annoyed he is behind Uzomah.
Especially since we can't block for excrement
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Post by: Jumbo on September 27, 2023, 05:21:41 PM
I get bitching about McDonald if he wasn't good but it's still unclear so that doesn't make sense. The process of picking him makes a lot of sense if they're planning on Lawson/Huff walking. Reaching for positional needs is a death sentence.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2023, 05:23:03 PM
Impact wise the only first round rookies on the board at 15 that could be argued for after 3 games are Christian Gonzalez and Jordan Addison/Zay Flowers, the former would have gotten even more wtf reactions and the latter would get either JSN complaints or probably not have made the same impact in our disgustingly bad passing game so far.Lawson's struggles make the pick look better IMO. We will need another edge next year. It will be great to have McDonald. Even if we bring back Huff, we want one more edge, especially in this defense.
I get bitching about McDonald if he wasn't good but it's still unclear so that doesn't make sense. The process of picking him makes a lot of sense if they're planning on Lawson/Huff walking. Reaching for positional needs is a death sentence.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 05:35:03 PM
Lawson's struggles make the pick look better IMO. We will need another edge next year. It will be great to have McDonald. Even if we bring back Huff, we want one more edge, especially in this defense.Again my issue is with snaps if it ramps up more fine. If it's at the pace of JJ last yr I'll be not happy about it . Not that that matters
I'd prefer he get as much as experience as possible so if he's struggling next yr were not saying
Well he barely saw the field yr 1 so this is really like his rookie yr .
That's all I'm getting at and considering he was played out of position at ISU I'd say experience will be more beneficial
Others would argue maybe he's a run liability so hence the bench
I see an Aldon Smitb ceiling and I'd like to get tbe kid his reps he's gonna take lumps either way and the people in front of him aren't good enough to justify it
Again caveat just 3 games in but not suiting
It's all excrement that gives me ptsd of mims and other guys we thought would be something g just wasting away
Not that mims proved to he anything but I think in getting the point across
It won't mean much if Lawson is moved by the deadline like Heismanberg said because then he will get a ton more looks .
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Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2023, 05:44:23 PM
Being upset about depth is wild. We are bad in so many other places.
Yeah no way those two are related.
As for WR I don’t think we’d be in a much better position with Davis than we are now. We’re not an unreliable pass catcher away from being an effective and the perimeter blocking from WR position isn’t what’s holding back the run game.
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 05:51:50 PM
Can't wait till he's a cap casualty . Think we save 8 mil and eat 10 if we cut him after this yr
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Post by: bojanglesman on September 27, 2023, 06:06:52 PM
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 06:08:53 PM
I didn't see the game, but from everything I've read, Tippman had a good game at guard. That's something.He was solid for sure . Had a weird tripping penalty but that'd about it . He got pancaked then tripped the rusher but the rusher wasn't gonna get there in time
Either way he needs to start rest of yr don't care where it is get him his snaps now
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Post by: bojanglesman on September 27, 2023, 06:29:47 PM
Post by: Coach K on September 27, 2023, 06:32:20 PM
TIL Tippmann has 2 n'sWhoa slow down there, Jim Crowe.
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Post by: MBGreen on October 16, 2023, 09:44:24 AM
Just came in here to say that i'm glad we traded up for Jermaine Johnson.
Post by: MBGreen on October 16, 2023, 09:52:25 AM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
As Jermaine Johnson keeps getting better, a reminder that Joe Douglas had a god-level 2022 NFL Draft.
Sauce Gardner (star)
Garrett Wilson (star)
Breece Hall (star)
Jermaine Johnson (becoming one)
Jeremy Ruckert (flashing some impressive potential)
Max Mitchell (starter)
Micheal Clemons (rotational player)
Tony Adams (undrafted, starter, Week 6 hero)
oh hai
Post by: MBGreen on October 16, 2023, 10:14:53 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 16, 2023, 10:26:07 AM
https://x.com/nyjets/status/1713921664507945291?s=20
What an absolute freaking dork.
I love it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 16, 2023, 01:48:19 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 16, 2023, 05:11:02 PM
oh hai
That is well on track to being one of the all time greatest drafts, certainly in franchise history and possibly in the league.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 05:21:51 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 05:36:02 PM
https://x.com/optimisticjets/status/1722020648732488042?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkgThe most charitable reading is that he doesn't think Siemian is very good and I'm stretching as far as I can on that one.
Someone should be hammering Douglas and Johnson over this question. Like texting them.every two minutes from varying burner numbers.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 05:51:46 PM
I also don't understand why people think Trevor Siemian just jumps Tim Boyle on the depth chart. I know Siemian has more starting experience, but Boyle was on the roster, presumably for a reason.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 05:54:03 PM
Saleh has to take the heat in the media for Douglas' sins.That reason presumably being because Aaron Rodgers liked to watch game film with him and Hackett liked the way he ran the scout team.
I also don't understand why people think Trevor Siemian just jumps Tim Boyle on the depth chart. I know Siemian has more starting experience, but Boyle was on the roster, presumably for a reason.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 06:09:13 PM
That reason presumably being because Aaron Rodgers liked to watch game film with him and Hackett liked the way he ran the scout team.Sure, but if he's on the roster first, I have to think he's ahead on the depth chart. And if you are using Siemian more than a few games, you need to carry 3 quarterbacks on the roster or cut Boyle. So the easiest thing to do is give Boyle a chance if they do decide to move on from Zach. They clearly aren't willing to move on from Zach yet, which I'm fine with, but if they do, I think Boyle gets the first shot.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 06:19:14 PM
Sure, but if he's on the roster first, I have to think he's ahead on the depth chart. And if you are using Siemian more than a few games, you need to carry 3 quarterbacks on the roster or cut Boyle. So the easiest thing to do is give Boyle a chance if they do decide to move on from Zach. They clearly aren't willing to move on from Zach yet, which I'm fine with, but if they do, I think Boyle gets the first shot.There's a lot of weird excrement that has happened with this roster. I wouldn't put anything as a guarantee at this point.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 07, 2023, 06:26:06 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2023, 06:35:42 PM
Allen Lazard (WR2 on a good day)
Mecole Hardman (WR4 with speed and not much else).
Randall Cobb (washed, but a good locker room veteran)
Dalvin Cook (washed and doesn't seem to be a great locker room guy)
That's it. The further this season goes, the worse the plan looks. The draft also isn't help us much in a win now year. One full-time starter is not it.
We got lucky with Zay Gipson. We've got a 20 year old potential gamebreaker at RB stashed at the far end of the bench.
This plan doesn't do much WITH Rodgers.
Losing Corey Davis was significant and it really shouldn't be.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2023, 06:35:49 PM
You think Zach got sacked a lot, put Siemian's statue derriere back there, he'll be dead before the 2nd quarter.
That's what happened to him last time
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 06:56:20 PM
I'll stop clogging up the Saleh thread with personnel complaints, but our skill position adds in the offseason were:Rodgers was also coming off his worst year in a long time. We were clearly counting on recreating the Packers passing game with Garrett playing the Davante role and Lazard being Rodgers' trustworthy friend. When the roster also had Corey Davis competing for the WR2/3 role and Mecole Hardman playing a WR3/WR4 role, there was enough depth to make it work. But take away Davis and Hardman and replace them with 2 UDFAs, and that isn't good enough. And I like Gipson, but he's more Mecole Hardman than he is a legit WR2/WR3, at least for now.
Allen Lazard (WR2 on a good day)
Mecole Hardman (WR4 with speed and not much else).
Randall Cobb (washed, but a good locker room veteran)
Dalvin Cook (washed and doesn't seem to be a great locker room guy)
That's it. The further this season goes, the worse the plan looks. The draft also isn't help us much in a win now year. One full-time starter is not it.
We got lucky with Zay Gipson. We've got a 20 year old potential gamebreaker at RB stashed at the far end of the bench.
This plan doesn't do much WITH Rodgers.
Losing Corey Davis was significant and it really shouldn't be.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 07:13:59 PM
I'll stop clogging up the Saleh thread with personnel complaints, but our skill position adds in the offseason were:Nothing about this offseason made sense even if Rodgers was healthy. I think we put up some curtains in the color/pattern he likes but that's about it.
Allen Lazard (WR2 on a good day)
Mecole Hardman (WR4 with speed and not much else).
Randall Cobb (washed, but a good locker room veteran)
Dalvin Cook (washed and doesn't seem to be a great locker room guy)
That's it. The further this season goes, the worse the plan looks. The draft also isn't help us much in a win now year. One full-time starter is not it.
We got lucky with Zay Gipson. We've got a 20 year old potential gamebreaker at RB stashed at the far end of the bench.
This plan doesn't do much WITH Rodgers.
Losing Corey Davis was significant and it really shouldn't be.
If he's the reason that players are keeping their jobs despite their performance I hope he comes back this season to experience it.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 08, 2023, 12:18:52 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 08, 2023, 12:25:59 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 08, 2023, 12:45:55 PM
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1721912786039480387 (https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1721912786039480387)
That guy is so anti-Jets. He's loving this.
Douglas missed on QB and WR depth, but he's done a lot on the OL and we've just been hammered by injuries.
If we have all of our OL healthy, we're in a much better place.
Post by: Johnny English on November 08, 2023, 12:55:06 PM
That guy is so anti-Jets. He's loving this.
Douglas missed on QB and WR depth, but he's done a lot on the OL and we've just been hammered by injuries.
If we have all of our OL healthy, we're in a much better place.
Our starting line with a fully healthy roster is probably:
Becton - Tomlinson - McGovern - Tippman - Vera-Tucker
It's still not great.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 08, 2023, 01:02:43 PM
Our starting line with a fully healthy roster is probably:
Becton - Tomlinson - McGovern - Tippman - Vera-Tucker
It's still not great.
To be fair, that's two 1st rounders and a 2nd. Can't fault him for not trying
Post by: Heismanberg on November 08, 2023, 01:04:31 PM
To be fair, that's two 1st rounders and a 2nd. Can't fault him for not trying
That's what I'm saying.
2 firsts
1 second
1 high priced FA
Post by: Heismanberg on November 08, 2023, 01:05:43 PM
Our starting line with a fully healthy roster is probably:
Becton - Tomlinson - McGovern - Tippman - Vera-Tucker
It's still not great.
Brown - Tomlinson - Tippmann - AVT - Becton is probably out best five fully healthy.
He hasn't neglected the unit. We're just decimated with injuries. Becton and AVT going down back to back seasons each is just really unlucky.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 08, 2023, 01:06:26 PM
That guy is so anti-Jets. He's loving this.
Douglas missed on QB and WR depth, but he's done a lot on the OL and we've just been hammered by injuries.
If we have all of our OL healthy, we're in a much better place.
Yeah, the OL is killing us and he really screwed up at receiver (especially not doing anything at the deadline).
I just thought it was amusing more than anything else.
Post by: Johnny English on November 08, 2023, 01:30:02 PM
That's what I'm saying.
2 firsts
1 second
1 high priced FA
Sure. I don't think anyone's suggesting he hasn't tried, just that he hasn't been very good at it.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 08, 2023, 01:59:32 PM
Sure. I don't think anyone's suggesting he hasn't tried, just that he hasn't been very good at it.
Do you think that AVT is good?
Post by: Johnny English on November 08, 2023, 03:01:17 PM
Do you think that AVT is good?
Yes, although I'd like to see him have a good run in a settled position, probably the one we drafted him to play.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 08, 2023, 03:05:16 PM
Yes, although I'd like to see him have a good run in a settled position, probably the one we drafted him to play.
I'm willing to agree with the criticism Douglas gets for how he handled QB and WR. He did a lot to attempt to fix the OL and our two most valuable players just can't stay on the field. He's spent 3 premium picks on OL. Another handful of mid-rounders with Clark, Mitchell, and Warren.
His depth signings are dropping like flies too.
He's swinging at least. It's not like he's completely neglecting the group like he's done with QB and WR.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 08, 2023, 03:07:57 PM
Michael Carter is not good.
Israel Abanikanda could be good.
There's a prospect on Baltimore who we spent time with in the pre-draft process that went undrafted...and he's better than both of them right now.
We draft three running backs and he still had to go sign Dalvin Cook. It's roster mismanagement.
Post by: Jumbo on November 08, 2023, 03:21:48 PM
I'm willing to agree with the criticism Douglas gets for how he handled QB and WR. He did a lot to attempt to fix the OL and our two most valuable players just can't stay on the field. He's spent 3 premium picks on OL. Another handful of mid-rounders with Clark, Mitchell, and Warren.
His depth signings are dropping like flies too.
He's swinging at least. It's not like he's completely neglecting the group like he's done with QB and WR.
100% agree. I think he probably deserves less overall criticism for the Wilson selection and the process of it but more for how he's handled everything else about the QB position. Throwing him into the fire and never having another backup plan is horrendous mismanagement. We should not be going into his 31st career start with how everything has worked out.
Post by: Johnny English on November 08, 2023, 03:23:48 PM
I'm willing to agree with the criticism Douglas gets for how he handled QB and WR. He did a lot to attempt to fix the OL and our two most valuable players just can't stay on the field. He's spent 3 premium picks on OL. Another handful of mid-rounders with Clark, Mitchell, and Warren.
His depth signings are dropping like flies too.
He's swinging at least. It's not like he's completely neglecting the group like he's done with QB and WR.
His draft picks have been OK, but he's not done well with senior pros. Brown, Kalil, van Roten, Fant, Alex Lewis, Connor McDermott, Remmers, Ogbuehi, Feeney, Schweitzer and Turner have all been varying degrees of excrement - the only vets he brought in who actually provided any value were McGovern, Moses, Tomlinson, and maybe Herbig and LdT, and none of them were anything special. His policy of bringing in mediocre and/or ageing vets has continued to be wholly ineffective.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 08, 2023, 03:30:18 PM
His policy of bringing in mediocre and/or ageing vets has continued to be wholly ineffective.
Tomlinson was the only true veteran FA signing. The rest of garbage pile signings. He's looking in the bargain bin because he considers himself this master OL evaluator. It hasn't worked.
Post by: MBGreen on November 08, 2023, 04:09:09 PM
Solid Joe Douglas FA signing
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 08, 2023, 04:23:13 PM
https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1722260183223603662?t=zBzbk2SsoqLAgdtgJyedOg&s=19
Solid Joe Douglas FA signing
He’s our 2nd best WR
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 08, 2023, 05:39:55 PM
That guy is so anti-Jets. He's loving this.Has anything he's done on the OLine worked? The best acquisitions are the ones who are hurt all the time and the rest just absolutely suck.
Douglas missed on QB and WR depth, but he's done a lot on the OL and we've just been hammered by injuries.
If we have all of our OL healthy, we're in a much better place.
We sunk a lot of resources to have the worst OLine in the league.
Absolutely nothing in that tweet is wrong.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 08, 2023, 05:47:43 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 08, 2023, 06:19:36 PM
When healthy, I think our offensive line is good enough to succeed. If we add 1 more premium OL piece and our guys stay healthy (and Becton comes back), the OL can be a plus next year. But hard to trust health at this point.
i'm here. our best 5 when healthy are at the very least a serviceable OL we could achieve things with. JD has tried his best in drafting talent. becton and AVT would be considered successes and we'd have 2/5 of the rotation complete were it not for GVR and the denver turf.
hope for better injury luck next year. re-sign becton. draft an OL in the first and hope he pans out. add to AVT and tippmann. that's 4/5 of a good line there.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 08, 2023, 06:22:16 PM
Has anything he's done on the OLine worked?
yes
Post by: MBGreen on November 13, 2023, 03:03:31 PM
Joe Douglas and the rest of the jets braintrust really fucked up here...badly. I can't tell if we're trying to win or just waiting for the season to end. Going after Evans/Adams at the deadline makes me think we're trying to win....but everything else is being handled like dogshit.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 13, 2023, 03:05:54 PM
Kirk Cousins went down with the exact same injury as Rodgers, the Vikes went out and got Dobbs immediately. He's 2-0 and still doesn't know where the men's washroom is at US Bank Stadium. And like most olines around the league, the Vikes' oline is banged up too. Albeit not to the same degree as ours, point being...no oline is gonna be pristine.Shocking to see another team with a terrible offensive line, an injured QB, no running game and no WR1 still find ways to succeed offensively. This board tells me it's impossible.
Joe Douglas and the rest of the jets braintrust really fucked up here...badly.
Post by: MBGreen on November 13, 2023, 03:11:09 PM
Shocking to see another team with a terrible offensive line, an injured QB, no running game and no WR1 still find ways to succeed offensively. This board tells me it's impossible.
the Vikes are down to their 3rd or 4th string HB, and have won 4 straight without Justin Jefferson (and 2 without Cousins).
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 13, 2023, 03:12:11 PM
the Vikes are down to their 3rd or 4th string HB, and have won 4 straight without Justin Jefferson (and 2 without Cousins).Josh Dobbs might be a little better than Zach Wilson.
Kevin O'Connell might be a little better than Saleh/Hackett.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2023, 03:17:09 PM
Please stop trying to draw comparisons that aren’t there
The only relevant point with Josh Dobbs is that we didn’t try to sign him when he was available for nothing. He got traded for a 6th round pick. Maybe the rest of the league wasn’t that high on him either until now. Maybe Joe Douglas doesn’t know what he’s doing
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2023, 03:19:17 PM
Josh Dobbs might be a little better than Zach Wilson.
Kevin O'Connell might be a little better than Saleh/Hackett.
Did anyone say these things weren’t true? K
Post by: Johnny English on November 19, 2023, 05:47:29 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 19, 2023, 07:47:59 PM
And I don't think it makes sense to make a HC change without a GM change.
Especially with the way the quality HCs are getting huge contracts. I feel like bringing in a new HC basically gives Douglas a reprieve and then we're stuck with him another 2-3 years
I think the options are either clean house after this year, or go all in on Rodgers transforming this team next year and completely clean house if it fails
Post by: MBGreen on November 19, 2023, 07:49:06 PM
Joe Douglas is the biggest problemDouglas deserves some blame...but hes not even close to being the biggest problem.
And I don't think it makes sense to make a HC change without a GM change.
Especially with the way the quality HCs are getting huge contracts. I feel like bringing in a new HC basically gives Douglas a reprieve and then we're stuck with him another 2-3 years
I think the options are either clean house after this year, or go all in on Rodgers transforming this team next year and completely clean house if it fails
Post by: bojanglesman on November 19, 2023, 07:49:56 PM
Joe Douglas is the biggest problem
And I don't think it makes sense to make a HC change without a GM change.
Especially with the way the quality HCs are getting huge contracts. I feel like bringing in a new HC basically gives Douglas a reprieve and then we're stuck with him another 2-3 years
I think the options are either clean house after this year, or go all in on Rodgers transforming this team next year and completely clean house if it fails
It'll be the second option. Nothing is changing this off-season as long as Rodgers is coming back.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 19, 2023, 07:51:29 PM
Douglas deserves some blame...but hes not even close to being the biggest problem.
What are the two things Joe Douglas will be most known for here and this teams two biggest problems?
Zach Wilson and our OL
Does anyone here feel comfortable giving Joe Douglas another chance at fixing our OL and QB position? I sure freaking don't
Post by: dcm1602 on November 19, 2023, 07:52:41 PM
It'll be the second option. Nothing is changing this off-season as long as Rodgers is coming back.
I think that's most likely the case
But regardless I'm content with either scenario
I do not freaking want a new HC and 3 more years of Joe Douglas though
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 19, 2023, 07:54:25 PM
Douglas deserves some blame...but hes not even close to being the biggest problem.He put the roster together. He had input from Saleh and the CS but it's ultimately his call. The roster is god awful on the offensive side of the ball.
Post by: Johnny English on November 19, 2023, 07:55:04 PM
What are the two things Joe Douglas will be most known for here and this teams two biggest problems?
Zach Wilson and our OL
Does anyone here feel comfortable giving Joe Douglas another chance at fixing our OL and QB position? I sure freaking don't
I'm with you on this. Every single player that Douglas has acquired for our offensive line has in one way or another been a failure. I don't see the logic in letting him continue to do this.
I think you can replace him by saying to candidates "you've got Saleh, Hackett and Rodgers for the 2024 season, and if you get everything right and Rodgers is still decent it's got the potential to be a top team. After that, no matter what happens, do what you want with any of them."
Post by: bojanglesman on November 19, 2023, 07:57:14 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 19, 2023, 07:58:27 PM
But if they move on from JD, I can't argue against it. The case to fire him isn't much different than the case to fire Saleh.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 19, 2023, 07:58:41 PM
I'm with you on this. Every single player that Douglas has acquired for our offensive line has in one way or another been a failure. I don't see the logic in letting him continue to do this.
I think you can replace him by saying to candidates "you've got Saleh, Hackett and Rodgers for the 2024 season, and if you get everything right and Rodgers is still decent it's got the potential to be a top team. After that, no matter what happens, do what you want with any of them."
I have no problem with this scenario, especially since it let's the new guy hit the ground running
But I do think it would be a little odd to keep a HC that has only been a failure here while firing your GM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 19, 2023, 08:00:35 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 19, 2023, 08:01:47 PM
He put the roster together. He had input from Saleh and the CS but it's ultimately his call. The roster is god awful on the offensive side of the ball.Still not the biggest problem
But I won't be angry if they fire him.
One thing I do know...they're not keeping Saleh and firing JD. Woody already learned that mistake with Keeping Rex and replacing Tanny with Idzik.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 19, 2023, 08:02:06 PM
You can absolutely make a HC change without making a GM change. There are cases you can make to keep Douglas, and timeline-wise, it isn't as bad as some of our previous HC/GM moves.
But if they move on from JD, I can't argue against it. The case to fire him isn't much different than the case to fire Saleh.
You can, but I think this buys Joe Douglas time. And the reality is it also means Joe Douglas will get to pick the next QB and be charged with rebuilding his OL
I'd much rather let the circus continue to give Rodgers a chance, fire Saleh/Douglas mid season promote Ulbrich.
Post by: MBGreen on November 19, 2023, 08:02:08 PM
You cannot fire the GM and keep Saleh. That is the dysfunction that has defined this organization for years.Correct
Post by: Johnny English on November 19, 2023, 08:03:19 PM
I have no problem with this scenario, especially since it let's the new guy hit the ground running
But I do think it would be a little odd to keep a HC that has only been a failure here while firing your GM
Because the unit that the HC understands is absolutely lights out. Don't break the thing that isn't already broken, although TBH I won't be too broken up if he goes as well.
I don't feel any differently than I did at half time. Douglas and Hackett need to go. If it means that Saleh and Rodgers have to as well, I can live with that.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 19, 2023, 08:05:41 PM
You can, but I think this buys Joe Douglas time. And the reality is it also means Joe Douglas will get to pick the next QB and be charged with rebuilding his OLI just want to win. They need to determine if Douglas can do that. There are some great moves and some terrible moves. I dont care about buying Douglas time. They can commit to JD with a new staff or clean everyone out at once if they make changes. I am fine with both. And yes, JD's timeline resets a bit with a new coach, but so be it.
I'd much rather let the circus continue, fire Saleh/Douglas mid season promote Ulbrich.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 19, 2023, 08:06:59 PM
Because the unit that the HC understands is absolutely lights out. Don't break the thing that isn't already broken, although TBH I won't be too broken up if he goes as well.A new DC should be able to have success with this defensive talent.
I don't feel any differently than I did at half time. Douglas and Hackett need to go. If it means that Saleh and Rodgers have to as well, I can live with that.
Post by: MBGreen on November 19, 2023, 08:08:13 PM
A new DC should be able to have success with this defensive talent.Just about to post this
Post by: Johnny English on November 19, 2023, 08:08:51 PM
A new DC should be able to have success with this defensive talent.
We have an excellent DC already, if Ulbrich is willing to stay then it might not be an issue. I don't know how much of it is Saleh and how much is him but he's clearly not a mug. I'm just saying, I'm not quite as pissed at Saleh tonight as I am at Douglas and Hackett.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2023, 07:50:44 AM
But the WR room lacks talent. The TE room is overpaid and garbage. Multiple bad decisions have been made in the RB rotation. And it's inexcusable that Zach was the only option when there were 2 months between Rodgers going down and the trade deadline.
Joe must go.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 08:07:57 AM
The argument that implies Douglas has had bad luck with injuries on the line only goes so far. It's true enough, and even though I frequently complain about acquiring injury-prone players, a lot of the OL injuries were "fluky" and hard (impossible) to predict.
But the WR room lacks talent. The TE room is overpaid and garbage. Multiple bad decisions have been made in the RB rotation. And it's inexcusable that Zach was the only option when there were 2 months between Rodgers going down and the trade deadline.
Joe must go.
In three and a half seasons at the club Douglas has the Jamal Adams trade and the 2021 draft in his plus column, the rest of his reign is a disaster. He has been an abject failure with free agency and the best player on this team was drafted by Mike Maccagnan. He has drafted 33 players since he got here and 5 of them are consistently valuable contributors to the team (Sauce, Breece, Garrett, JJ, MCII).
Seems like a nice guy, but he is not a good GM.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 08:14:31 AM
In three and a half seasons at the club Douglas has the Jamal Adams trade and the 2021 draft in his plus column, the rest of his reign is a disaster. He has been an abject failure with free agency and the best player on this team was drafted by Mike Maccagnan. He has drafted 33 players since he got here and 5 of them are consistently valuable contributors to the team (Sauce, Breece, Garrett, JJ, MCII).
Seems like a nice guy, but he is not a good GM.
I'm ready to move on. Fire him.
I've lived through Parcells, Dick Haley, Terry Bradway, Tanny, Idzik, Duff and now Douglas. And Douglas has the worst winning percentage out of all of them.
I wanted to like him, he came from the Ozzie Newsome school of GMing....but the Jets franchise has always been a tall task for any GM, so i shouldn't be surprised that Douglas couldn't succeed. After Idzik and Duff, i was excited because the Ravens/Eagles were model franchises that built through the draft...which is exactly what the Jets were missing.
I doubt Woody fires him, but i won't be angry if he does. Just got those defeated/deflated feels.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 08:17:06 AM
I'm ready to move on. Fire him.
I've lived through Parcells, Dick Haley, Terry Bradway, Tanny, Idzik, Duff and now Douglas. And Douglas has the worst winning percentage out of all of them.
I wanted to like him, he came from the Ozzie Newsome school of GMing....but the Jets franchise has always been a tall task for any GM, so i shouldn't be surprised that Douglas couldn't succeed.
I doubt Woody fires him, but i won't be angry if he does. Just got those defeated/deflated feels.
I thought that a night to sleep on it might chill me out a bit, but I'm even more annoyed this morning. I'm ready to fire everyone and go back to my preferred option of 2 years ago, which is to go all out for Jim Harbaugh.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 08:20:02 AM
You fire Douglas, you have to clean house. We tried half-assing it before with retaining Rex after hiring Idzik, and that set us back another season with one of the shittiest draft hauls i've ever seen. Let's not repeat old mistakes.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 08:27:57 AM
i also don't want to hear "Well, Douglas should go but retain other people" bullshit.
You fire Douglas, you have to clean house. We tried half-assing it before with retaining Rex after hiring Idzik, and that set us back another season with one of the shittiest draft hauls i've ever seen. Let's not repeat old mistakes.
Sure. Absolutely no one up to and including Aaron Rodgers is untouchable, for me. I just don't have quite the level of contempt and annoyance for Saleh as I do some others right now.
Ulbrich is the only one with clean hands IMO.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 08:35:00 AM
Sure. Absolutely no one up to and including Aaron Rodgers is untouchable, for me. I just don't have quite the level of contempt and annoyance for Saleh as I do some others right now.
Ulbrich is the only one with clean hands IMO.
Saleh is clearly hands off with the offense, and he refuses to make changes/adjustments (i don't know how much influence is coming from above him, but he's the front line on it). Sorry Bob, Rodgers ain't here...you actually need to coach and make decisions on that side of the ball too.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2023, 08:39:32 AM
Sure. Absolutely no one up to and including Aaron Rodgers is untouchable, for me. I just don't have quite the level of contempt and annoyance for Saleh as I do some others right now.
Ulbrich is the only one with clean hands IMO.
Agree on Ulbrich, and if I wasn't so dead-set on no more DCs for HC, I'd entertain giving him the promotion. But I'm ready to clean house completely. I can't even remember the last time we actually truly tore it down. I can't even remember the last time we started a season with both a brand new HC and brand new GM. Every year we either force a HC on a new GM, or the GM gets another chance to fail with a new HC.
It's time to start from scratch. But at the same time, the Johnsons have shown zero aptitude at hiring well.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 08:49:11 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 20, 2023, 08:56:22 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 09:01:05 AM
He brought in some ok OL free agents
Who?
Post by: bojanglesman on November 20, 2023, 09:03:43 AM
Who?
McGovern, Brown, Fant, Moses .
Not saying they are great, but competent.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 09:05:57 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 09:13:08 AM
McGovern, Brown, Fant, Moses .
Not saying they are great, but competent.
Stop gaps, band-aids, temporary fixes...and not very good ones.
Let's not forget about Ryan Kalil.
Duane Brown is injury prone and awful.
McGovern is a JAG.
George Fant and Morgan Moses are not here. He let them walk. That is 100% on him. He let Moses walk so we could put a super-glued version of Mekhi Becton back out there.
It's roster mismanagement, just like QB and WR.
Our entire pro personnel department should get canned, starting with Rex Hogan.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 09:16:29 AM
Stop gaps, band-aids, temporary fixes...and not very good ones.
Let's not forget about Ryan Kalil.
Duane Brown is injury prone and awful.
McGovern is a JAG.
George Fant and Morgan Moses are not here. He let them walk. That is 100% on him. He let Moses walk so we could put a super-glued version of Mekhi Becton back out there.
It's roster mismanagement, just like QB and WR.
Our entire pro personnel department should get canned, starting with Rex Hogan.
Amen.
Interestingly, this is from Hogan's bio on the Jets official site:
Quote
Under Douglas and Hogan, the Jets roster has turned over in the last three-plus seasons, as over 97% of the roster was acquired or extended by them. In the last four drafts, they've made 33 total selections, picking in the first two rounds of the 2021, 2022, and 2023 Drafts nine times, including six first-round selections.
Pretty much writing their own obituary with that.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 09:17:10 AM
They know defense but have zero clue on offense. They do not bring in the right players - free agents on offense suck almost to a man they're awful. How many WR'S has he drafted that aren't worth a excrement?
It's amazing how inept these guys are on one side of the ball, it borders on malfeasance and should be grounds to get rid of every single one of them.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 09:17:39 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 09:19:02 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 09:19:20 AM
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 09:20:57 AM
The scouts will point to Bryce Huff and Quincy Williams as wins. Good for them.
Quincy was brought in by Saleh because he knew him from Jacksonville.
If the scouts had the slightest idea that Huff could become what he is they wouldn't have let him go undrafted.
They get no credit for either.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 09:21:13 AM
The problem is the coaching has been all in on the personnel front. So Douglas doesn't bring anyone in that the coaches don't agree with, that's a fact.
They know defense but have zero clue on offense. They do not bring in the right players - free agents on offense suck almost to a man they're awful. How many WR'S has he drafted that aren't worth a excrement?
It's amazing how inept these guys are on one side of the ball, it borders in malfeasance and should be grounds to get rid of every single one of them.
this is a good point...Saleh is most definitely in on personnel and the draft selections.
When he was hired, he said he wanted to run the ball and play defense to win (like every typical DC turned HC). So when Douglas keeps selecting HBs out of the draft, I'm sure Saleh had a voice in those decisions.
They're both at fault here. Saying it's just one or the other is ignorant (not you, Puck..just the general sentiment from some).
Post by: insanity on November 20, 2023, 09:22:54 AM
Joe Douglas is an above average gm. Let's see if he improves or gets worse.
I will say that not keeping Morgan moses or George fant and instead betting on other tackles reflects poorly on his ability to grade offensive lineman. I didnt understand it then nor now.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 09:24:53 AM
Joe Douglas is an above average gm.
The evidence overwhelmingly refutes this.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 09:25:15 AM
this is a good point...Saleh is most definitely in on personnel and the draft selections.
When he was hired, he said he wanted to run the ball and play defense to win (like every typical DC turned HC). So when Douglas keeps selecting HBs out of the draft, I'm sure Saleh had a voice in those decisions.
They're both at fault here. Saying it's just one or the other is ignorant (not you, Puck..just the general sentiment from some).
It's definitely not one or the other, it's all of them. Look the defensive staff is pretty good, just not sure they wouldn't bolt with Saleh.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 09:26:02 AM
The evidence overwhelmingly refutes this.
Totally agree
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2023, 10:00:55 AM
Cleaning house again is what constantly gets us in this mess.
When's the last time we truly cleaned house? New GM who gets to pick his own front office staff and HC. And the HC gets to pick his own staff.
This team just pulls one or two pieces out of the puzzle, sticks in replacements, and wonders why the image never looks like it does on the box.
Joe Douglas is an above average gm.
Others disputed this above, but I'll add my name to the list.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 20, 2023, 10:02:38 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 20, 2023, 10:03:58 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Cleaning house again is what constantly gets us in this mess.
Joe Douglas is an above average gm. Let's see if he improves or gets worse.
I will say that not keeping Morgan moses or George fant and instead betting on other tackles reflects poorly on his ability to grade offensive lineman. I didnt understand it then nor now.
I like Joe Douglas. But this is a results-driven business.
In 3 years, his winning pct is .265. Only Kotite and Al Ward were worse. I can't defend that.
Douglas will probably get another year, but fans certainly have a right to be angry now.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 20, 2023, 10:06:05 AM
Cleaning house again is what constantly gets us in this mess.
Joe Douglas is an above average gm. Let's see if he improves or gets worse.
I will say that not keeping Morgan moses or George fant and instead betting on other tackles reflects poorly on his ability to grade offensive lineman. I didnt understand it then nor now.
This is a results based business so no. Best argument you can make is that he’s an average GM, which I think is important to note because the Jets have historically struggled to employ even just an average GM
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 11:11:10 AM
This is a results based business so no. Best argument you can make is that he’s an average GM, which I think is important to note because the Jets have historically struggled to employ even just an average GMI mean.... if the defense is a 9/10 and the offense is a 1/10 then it averages out to a 5/10 in mathematical terms, but football doesn't actually work like that.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2023, 11:28:57 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 11:31:10 AM
I can't wait to see what kind of desperation patch work he tries to pull together to save his job this offseason.
David Bakhtiari and Davante Adams
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 11:31:57 AM
Injury prone veteran that will sign for well-above market value only to get injured in Week 2
Post by: insanity on November 20, 2023, 11:38:51 AM
The evidence overwhelmingly refutes this.If that's true name 10 above average gms?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 20, 2023, 11:40:40 AM
David Bakhtiari and Davante AdamsI just threw up in my mouth.
Post by: insanity on November 20, 2023, 11:43:26 AM
This is a results based business so no. Best argument you can make is that he’s an average GM, which I think is important to note because the Jets have historically struggled to employ even just an average GMWhich is my point if you think he's been average who has done well with defensive talent but poorly with offensive talent why would you fire him and roll the dice on a new unproven gm instead of firing all of the offensive scouts and rebuilding the part of the organization.
It doesn't always need to be a fire sale. These people are human. Let them learn from their mistakes and grow.
I think we all agree that the process has been right. I think we can agree the mindset of the team and perceptions of the team have changed dramatically. That's what you want from leadership. It's time to fire some people but not the guys up top.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 11:55:42 AM
Which is my point if you think he's been average who has done well with defensive talent but poorly with offensive talent why would you fire him and roll the dice on a new unproven gm instead of firing all of the offensive scouts and rebuilding the part of the organization.
It doesn't always need to be a fire sale. These people are human. Let them learn from their mistakes and grow.
I think we all agree that the process has been right. I think we can agree the mindset of the team and perceptions of the team have changed dramatically. That's what you want from leadership. It's time to fire some people but not the guys up top.
Because he's not very good, how the freak can you watch this team every Sunday and say he is above average? sorry but that's patently freaking retarded.
infact, it's a complete insult to our intelligence- actually not an insult but an outright assault. ...
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 12:05:58 PM
QB - no plan once Rodgers got hurt
RB - Hall is great, we've spent three draft picks on RBs in the past three drafts. One of them was waived. We also spent big money on the Dalvin Cook rental. Lots invested into a non-premium position.
WR - Garrett Wilson and that's it. We are relying on two '23 UDFAs + a '22 UDFA to play in key snaps on offense. I was wrong on Lazard. I thought he'd provide value in the redzone and in the run game. He's been a complete waste of money. Cobb doesn't really matter.
TE - Uzomah is horrendous and he's being paid like a top player at his position. Conklin is fine, but he can't block worth a damn. Ruckert seems to be coming along - hopefully he gets more work as the season goes.
OL - Becton hurt again, Duane Brown hurt again, McGovern toast, Saffold apparently signed for no reason, Mitchell is the worst tackle we've had since Wayne Hunter, Tippmann seems OK, Tomlinson is vastly overpaid
DL - deep, elite, the best part of our roster (time is a flat circle)
LB - it's fine, nice development from Quincy saved a thin group due to misses on Sherwood, Hamsah, and potentially Barnes
CB - DJ Reed is his best signing. Sauce is his best draft pick. Michael Carter is probably is second best draft pick.
S - Tony Adams is not good. Chuck Clark is on IR. Adrian Amos is a stop gap. Jordan Whitehead is incredible inconsistent. Ashtyn Davis is the GOAT but never gets to play.
K - revolving door, but Greg is fantastic
P - revolving door, but Morstead is mostly good
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 12:06:03 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2023, 12:14:03 PM
Which is my point if you think he's been average who has done well with defensive talent but poorly with offensive talent why would you fire him and roll the dice on a new unproven gm instead of firing all of the offensive scouts and rebuilding the part of the organization.
It doesn't always need to be a fire sale. These people are human. Let them learn from their mistakes and grow.
I think we all agree that the process has been right. I think we can agree the mindset of the team and perceptions of the team have changed dramatically. That's what you want from leadership. It's time to fire some people but not the guys up top.
I agree with you in principle that people can grow and learn.
But his worst roster management has come on the offensive side, particularly the OL. Which he came in touting as being the most important thing. And it was supposed to be his pedigree.
Yes, we've been destroyed by injuries and he can't take all the blame for that (though he gets some). But other than AVT and Becton, plus the drafting of Tippmann, where did he see a lot of talent that didn't need replacing before injuries?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 12:14:23 PM
This DL is way better than previous "great" Jets DLs.
Post by: mj2sexay on November 20, 2023, 12:15:50 PM
I don't give a freak what he's done anywhere else honestly (and it hasn't been sterling anyway), you can't miss there and put forth any sort of sustainable winner.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 12:17:57 PM
This isn't the 80s and offense supercedes defense by a mile in terms of importance in the modern era
The Browns are a more functional version of what were doing . The key difference is their OL interior is solid as rock . There's a run game to lean on .
Romo casually referred to the right side as a turnstile like 5 times throughout the broadcast and he's not wrong
Again I've recently started throwing more critique at Zach but we wanted Rodgers to mask the fact we cut corners at OL and WR and this is what you get when you don't have a top 5 all time QB to hide or offset these deficiencies
They said easier to upgrade at QB then fix 3 OL spots and at least 2 WR spots
They massaged Rodgers ego and brought in pieces to keep him happy and make him want to be here
That blew up too .
Drafting 1 good WR was not an excuse to stop swinging .
The chiefs are the only ones who can get away with it and it's because they have the best QB and offensive minded coach in the NFL .
Wake me up in April. This is a freaking fever dream we already lived last yr cept it's gone off the rails much sooner .
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 12:22:01 PM
We've had good defense my entire life sans a handful of seasonsCan't really argue with any of this. There's no reason this offensive roster shouldn't have been built up to be like the Browns offense without their QB and without their stud RB. The Browns aren't good offensively, but they have been decent enough to not lose games for them. The Jets are completely inept because they can't block.
This isn't the 80s and offense supercedes defense by a mile in terms of importance in the modern era
The Browns are a more functional version of what were doing . The key difference is their OL interior is solid as rock . There's a run game to lean on .
Romo casually referred to the right side as a turnstile like 5 times throughout the broadcast and he's not wrong
Again I've recently started throwing more critique at Zach but we wanted Rodgers to mask the fact we cut corners at OL and WR and this is what you get when you don't have a top 5 all time QB to hide or offset these deficiencies
They said easier to upgrade at QB then fix 3 OL spots and at least 2 WR spots
They massaged Rodgers ego and brought in pieces to keep him happy and make him want to be here
That blew up too .
Drafting 1 good WR was not an excuse to stop swinging .
The chiefs are the only ones who can get away with it and it's because they have the best QB and offensive minded coach in the NFL .
Wake me up in April. This is a freaking fever dream we already lived last yr cept it's gone off the rails much sooner .
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2023, 12:24:52 PM
In Douglas' defense, this truly is an elite DL. We've had other DLs that we have said were elite, and they were against the run. But this DL is elite rushing the passer, which is something we haven't had in a long time.
This DL is way better than previous "great" Jets DLs.
I don't mean this personally at you, just at the general idea here because you're not the only that feels this way.
Who cares?
We get a ton of pressures on opposing QBs. Okay. How has that translated into points, much less wins?
If the OL was half as elite as the DL, we'd probably be in a vastly different position today.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 12:25:31 PM
Let's not forget that they brought in a failed oline coach or if not failed, one that was widely panned. How's that working out?
Another fantastic decision, is there even one passable offensive coach? Think about this, Saleh came from San Francisco, they had some pretty damn good offensive coaches on that staff and he didn't get one.
How is that possible?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 12:26:49 PM
I don't mean this personally at you, just at the general idea here because you're not the only that feels this way.I care because it's carried us to a few wins this season. This is an elite DL, and we're completely wasting it. Much different to be elite against the pass than it is against the run.
Who cares?
We get a ton of pressures on opposing QBs. Okay. How has that translated into points, much less wins?
If the OL was half as elite as the DL, we'd probably be in a vastly different position today.
But the offense is so bad that none of it matters.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2023, 12:30:24 PM
I care because it's carried us to a few wins this season. This is an elite DL, and we're completely wasting it. Much different to be elite against the pass than it is against the run.
But the offense is so bad that none of it matters.
That's my point. Yes, having an elite defense is nice. It helps win championships.
But when your offense is this bad, no defense is good enough to make up for it. And so many resources have been dedicated to making the DLine this good that should've been spent elsewhere--particularly the exact opposite side of the ball.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 12:33:00 PM
That's my point. Yes, having an elite defense is nice. It helps win championships.
But when your offense is this bad, no defense is good enough to make up for it. And so many resources have been dedicated to making the DLine this good that should've been spent elsewhere--particularly the exact opposite side of the ball.
Do you really want these guys making decisions of where to spend additional resources for the offense?
I am 1000% sure I do not.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 12:34:15 PM
Let's not forget that they brought in a failed oline coach or if not failed, one that was widely panned. How's that working out?Demeco Ryan's is a Saleh clone
Another fantastic decision, is there even one passable offensive coach? Think about this, Saleh came from San Francisco, they had some prrtty damn good offensive coaches on that staff and he didn't get one.
We drafted Zach Wilson
They drafted CJ Stroud lol
That's the biggest difference . Their OL and WRs aren't too great either and even when he throws 3 INTs he's gonna sling TDs.
He tried to get McDaniels but 49ers rooster blocked us.
Not that McDaniels would've been here long he got the MIA gig a yr after anyways .
MLF was just a shot in the dark with someone he knew he could throw under the bus if it blew up .
Badger jokes a lot but Chan Gailey is probably the best OC we've had in a decade lol
If we look at the list of OCs we've had for 35 years the fact that Gailey Schotty Jr Weis are the only ones with any measure of success technically Daddy Hackett but whatever I get heart palpitations just thinking about how inept we've been overall in general on offense .
It's sad that we're doing the season autopsy already and even worse we have to examine structural failure as a tradition instead of winning .
We thought we got an albatross out of the building when we got rid of Schotty Jr
Most of us would kill to have him right now lol .
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 12:39:19 PM
Demeco Ryan's is a Saleh clone
Demeco Ryans didn't hire back-to-back failures at OC
Quote
Their OL and WRs aren't too great either
Nico Collins, Tank Dell. John Metchie, Noah Brown, and Robert Woods are better than anything we have behind Garrett Wilson.
Tunsil is also one of the best left tackles in the league. They are healthy up front. We are not.
There's a lot that's different between us and Houston. Not just QB.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 12:41:28 PM
Demeco Ryans didn't hire back-to-back failures at OCTalking about coaching philosophy and specialty
But you are right Saleh has proven he only cares about getting his butt Buddies jobs .
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 12:47:50 PM
Demeco Ryan's is a Saleh clone
We drafted Zach Wilson
They drafted CJ Stroud lol
That's the biggest difference . Their OL and WRs aren't too great either and even when he throws 3 INTs he's gonna sling TDs.
He tried to get McDaniels but 49ers rooster blocked us.
Not that McDaniels would've been here long he got the MIA gig a yr after anyways .
MLF was just a shot in the dark with someone he knew he could throw under the bus if it blew up .
Badger jokes a lot but Chan Gailey is probably the best OC we've had in a decade lol
If we look at the list of OCs we've had for 35 years the fact that Gailey Schotty Jr Weis are the only ones with any measure of success technically Daddy Hackett but whatever I get heart palpitations just thinking about how inept we've been overall in general on offense .
It's sad that we're doing the season autopsy already and even worse we have to examine structural failure as a tradition instead of winning .
We thought we got an albatross out of the building when we got rid of Schotty Jr
Most of us would kill to have him right now lol .
Would have been a lot better had they got McDaniel of instead of Saleh. But that's hindsight
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 12:48:51 PM
Demeco Ryans didn't hire back-to-back failures at OCNoah Brown signed a 1-yr/$2.6M deal and was a depth WR with Dallas.
Nico Collins, Tank Dell. John Metchie, Noah Brown, and Robert Woods are better than anything we have behind Garrett Wilson.
Tunsil is also one of the best left tackles in the league. They are healthy up front. We are not.
There's a lot that's different between us and Houston. Not just QB.
Tank Dell is a rookie 3rd-round pick.
Nico Collins was the least-proven WR1 in the NFL entering the year.
They can fix this WR corps in one offseason when you already have Garrett Wilson. Just have to make the right moves on the margins. And have a quarterback who elevates everyone, which Stroud is doing, and Rodgers can do.
The offensive line is more complicated.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 12:51:13 PM
Noah Brown signed a 1-yr/$2.6M deal and was a depth WR with Dallas.
Tank Dell is a rookie 3rd-round pick.
Nico Collins was the least-proven WR1 in the NFL entering the year.
They can fix this WR corps in one offseason when you already have Garrett Wilson. Just have to make the right moves on the margins. And have a quarterback who elevates everyone, which Stroud is doing, and Rodgers can do.
The offensive line is more complicated.
I didn't say we couldn't fix the WR corps in an offseason.
But it starts with getting a new GM, new OC, new WR coach, and selecting Malik Nabers.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 12:54:27 PM
I didn't say we couldn't fix the WR corps in an offseason.
But it starts with getting a new GM, new OC, new WR coach, and selecting Malik Nabers.
Saleh shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to hire a 3rd OC. Just clean house.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 12:56:12 PM
Saleh shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to hire a 3rd OC. Just clean house.
Will Rodgers allow it?
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 01:10:33 PM
I didn't say we couldn't fix the WR corps in an offseason.Zach Azzanni. puts the derriere in Azzanni. Csn we just not hire or draft anyone named Zach from now on ?
But it starts with getting a new GM, new OC, new WR coach, and selecting Malik Nabers.
He should be fired ASAP.
I've never seen a team with a inability to get off press coverage so bad
If im DC vs this team just press almost every play and by the time any WR is out their break its more than likely you've hit the QB
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 01:12:22 PM
Will Rodgers allow it?
i don't care
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 01:15:38 PM
i don't care
This right here. I was the biggest cheerleader for Rodgers and was more than happy for him to build the club in his image, but it was all dependent upon Aaron Rodgers actually being at the middle of everything and in hindsight I wish we'd never traded for him. I'm very much over building anything around him any more; if he wants to stay next season then I'll be very happy to have him back, but he doesn't get to handpick the coaching staff or the roster any more and if that's his line in the sand he can just request a trade or retire.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 01:20:52 PM
This right here. I was the biggest cheerleader for Rodgers and was more than happy for him to build the club in his image, but it was all dependent upon Aaron Rodgers actually being at the middle of everything and in hindsight I wish we'd never traded for him. I'm very much over building anything around him any more; if he wants to stay next season then I'll be very happy to have him back, but he doesn't get to handpick the coaching staff or the roster any more and if that's his line in the sand he can just request a trade or retire.
Shout this entire post across the land...from sea to sea.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 01:23:59 PM
i don't care
It was rhetorical.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 01:25:16 PM
It was rhetorical.
that's fine.
I wanted to be clear about it regardless.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 20, 2023, 01:27:10 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 01:28:14 PM
that's fine.
I wanted to be clear about it regardless.
So you do care.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 01:29:59 PM
If Rodgers played and our offense wasn’t good, this conversation is fair. Guy can’t help getting hurt and he’s desperately trying to get back as quickly as possible, risking the end of his career, for a team dead in the water.
the problem with Rodgers is...his influence on the roster and coaching staff is quite heavy, and we really don't know what we have with him at his age. Is it worth it? Based on his body of work, it is. On the flipside, he's 40 and coming off a major injury. Should he have this kind of sway if we really don't know what we're getting from him?
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 01:30:27 PM
So you do care.i care about your understanding that i don't
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 01:32:35 PM
The biggest issue is Hackett. I'm willing to give Saleh and Douglas another chance next year to see through the Rodgers thing. I don't know if I'm willing to put up with Hackett. He would clearly be fired if it weren't for Aaron, but Aaron might give him a reprieve.
Let's see how the Jets finish out the season. It's easy to say they'll never win again after Sunday, but they've still won 4 games this year, so most likely they'll win at least 1-2 more games down the stretch, especially against teams like ATL, NE and WSH. I'm sure if you asked a Patriots or Commanders fan, they don't think they are winning any more games either.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 01:34:24 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 01:36:37 PM
the problem with Rodgers is...his influence on the roster and coaching staff is quite heavy, and we really don't know what we have with him at his age. Is it worth it? Based on his body of work, it is. On the flipside, he's 40 and coming off a major injury. Should he have this kind of sway if we really don't know what we're getting from him?That's a fair question, and if we think the staff has completely lost the team, you probably have to make a move regardless. We'll see how the rest of the season goes. Still 7 games left to judge everyone.
But the other issue is the timeline. The easiest thing to do is to give Saleh and Douglas a free pass, so he, Douglas and Rodgers are on the same timeline.
If you fire Saleh, then you're hiring a new coach and a new OC with Rodgers, which could be a bit awkward for hiring a new coach. Granted, it could also be great because Rodgers has other allies in the league and maybe some people will want to come coach with him. That also resets Douglas' timeline with the next coach, which isn't really deserved.
If you clean house, then that's a really awkward spot with Rodgers. But if we're convinced that the HC and GM are not redeemable, then you make the moves and figure out the rest later. Douglas and Saleh haven't done good jobs, but I think both can be redeemed with some better injury luck and a few offseason moves.
And if not, then Rodgers, Douglas and Saleh all go after 2024, and we completely clean house and start fresh.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 01:38:07 PM
I'm not ready to decide what they should do with Saleh and Douglas. The best chance for the Jets to win next year is to bring Rodgers back and hope he and some reinforcements in the offseason can turn the offense from the worst to mediocre, with a QB who protects the football.
The biggest issue is Hackett. I'm willing to give Saleh and Douglas another chance next year to see through the Rodgers thing. I don't know if I'm willing to put up with Hackett. He would clearly be fired if it weren't for Aaron, but Aaron might give him a reprieve.
Let's see how the Jets finish out the season. It's easy to say they'll never win again after Sunday, but they've still won 4 games this year, so most likely they'll win at least 1-2 more games down the stretch, especially against teams like ATL, NE and WSH. I'm sure if you asked a Patriots or Commanders fan, they don't think they are winning any more games either.
I am sure you're familiar with the definition of insanity. Your post is that.
Why would you give these bums another year to fix something they have showed absolutely no competency at whatsoever. That's nuts man, just nuts.
At least they have some defensive guys in the building that can hold water, like keeping Ulbrich and company.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 01:39:44 PM
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2023, 01:42:11 PM
If that's true name 10 above average gms?Dylan x10
(I kind of agree with you)
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 01:43:59 PM
I am sure you're familiar with the definition of insanity. Your post is that.Why did we bring them back this year then? We didn't learn anything new. The plan this year was to try Saleh and JD with a new OC and QB but the QB reverted back to the same bad player from the previous 2 years.
Why would you give these bums another year to fix something they have showed absolutely no competency at whatsoever. That's nuts man, just nuts.
At least they have some defensive guys in the building that can hold water, like keeping Ulbrich and company.
And the definition of insanity to me is having Saleh, JD and Zach. Zach will be gone presumably. Saleh, JD and Rodgers is a new dynamic.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2023, 01:44:26 PM
You'd be completely selling out the next 5+ years for a single chance at the Lombardi with a 40yo QB coming back from an Achilles tear.
F Rodgers. F Hackett. F Saleh. F Douglas. Clean house.
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2023, 01:45:15 PM
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2023, 01:46:31 PM
You'd be completely selling out the next 5+ years for a single chance at the Lombardi with a 40yo QB coming back from an Achilles tear.
F Rodgers. F Hackett. F Saleh. F Douglas. Clean house.
There's no way this option could also freak us for multiple years.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 01:47:52 PM
There's no way this option could also freak us for multiple years.
the flipside is just delaying the inevitable, no?
like we did with Adam Gase
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2023, 01:51:12 PM
the flipside is just delaying the inevitable, no?Gase was a dud from the start. Not comparable.
like we did with Adam Gase
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 01:51:19 PM
We can't let the Patriots* get Marv Jr.Yeah we need an OL but hes the exception
You definitely draft him if he's available when we pick .
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 01:51:37 PM
Joe Douglas Chode AbodeHahahahaahahah
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 01:51:39 PM
If the Jets are so bad the rest of the year where you have to make a change, then do it, but this team is probably a playoff team this year if Rodgers stayed healthy. That is a big if considering our OL but its true.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 01:54:00 PM
If the Jets are so bad the rest of the year where you have to make a change, then do it, but this team is probably a playoff team this year if Rodgers stayed healthy. That is a big if considering our OL but its true.
He wouldn't be healthy behind this OL. It's almost better that it happened 4 plays in instead of a several weeks. Less deflating.
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2023, 02:02:47 PM
Jets have been looking for a QB for a long time. Aaron Rodgers is a Jet. We have a great defense. Why not see if that works? We thought that exact formula would work 3 months ago.
This year has been a harsh trial run for a Rodgers year. Survive, learn, patch the holes, try again.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 02:03:48 PM
Lol we definitely weren't 1 freaking player away
This year has been a harsh trial run for a Rodgers year. Survive, learn, patch the holes, try again.
Zach wilson ain't good though either . But those can both be true lol .
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 02:08:16 PM
It also means trash contracts with multiple offensive linemen. The only guy you can "rely" on returning next year right now is Tippmann.
That's not true, we are stuck with Laken Tomlinson for the rest of time.
Post by: Johnny English on November 20, 2023, 02:09:33 PM
We can't let the Patriots* get Marv Jr.
There's no way the Patriots aren't taking a QB.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 02:11:19 PM
There's no way the Patriots aren't taking a QB.Theyre drafting Marvin Harrison Jr rd 1 and a Michigan backup qb rd 6
Run it back
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 02:11:46 PM
Lol we definitely weren't 1 freaking player awayWe are a halfway-decent passing offense away. Find a WR2 somewhere, either through the draft or FA or a trade. Most NFL receivers are better than Lazard, so finding an upgrade at WR won't be hard. Upgrading Zach to Rodgers should be huge, and that's already in house.
Zach wilson ain't good though either . But those can both be true lol .
The issue is how to fix the offensive line, which is a big issue no matter who is in charge.
This team is 4-6 with Zach Wilson and the worst offense in the NFL against one of the toughest schedules in the NFL. Based on how Zach and the offense has played, that is probably meeting expectations. It's easy to say "clean house" but against this schedule with this offense and QB, 4-6 could be worse.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 02:28:56 PM
Gase was a dud from the start. Not comparable.
Robert Saleh's W/L record is 15-29. Gase's record is 9-23 with 1 less season. Looks comparable.
Post by: mj2sexay on November 20, 2023, 02:30:58 PM
Gase was a dud from the start. Not comparable.
Gase went 7-9 his first year which is better than Salah has done despite having more talent.
It's absolutely comparable, partially so that I can finally live down wanting to hire him considering I didn't want Salah.
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 02:37:25 PM
-Duane Charles Parcells
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2023, 02:42:32 PM
There's no way this option could also freak us for multiple years.
Rodgers' contract is the only pain point there.
You don't do what I said, you're then piling on Davante Adams' utterly awful contract too. And you've still gotta get offensive linemen who can play immediately. You can't draft a bunch a guys and hope they all succeed next year.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 20, 2023, 02:44:44 PM
Jets have been looking for a QB for a long time. Aaron Rodgers is a Jet. We have a great defense. Why not see if that works? We thought that exact formula would work 3 months ago.
If the Jets are so bad the rest of the year where you have to make a change, then do it, but this team is probably a playoff team this year if Rodgers stayed healthy. That is a big if considering our OL but its true.
We thought it would work when we thought:
Duane Brown was a capable starting LT
Becton would be RT
AVT would be a healthy LG
Lazard could catch
Davis wouldn't be retired
This team is nothing that it was supposed to be when they reported for training camp.
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 02:51:46 PM
so that I can finally live down wanting to hire him considering.....
I just consulted the magic 8ball and it said, "no freaking way".
Post by: bojanglesman on November 20, 2023, 03:21:17 PM
It's bad
You forgot Thomas Hennessy, the rock on which this team is built.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 04:12:14 PM
"you are what your record says you are"
-Duane Charles Parcells
We should hire him
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 05:46:19 PM
We should hire himIs he still alive?
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2023, 06:33:56 PM
Robert Saleh's W/L record is 15-29. Gase's record is 9-23 with 1 less season. Looks comparable.Only in the sense that every Jets coach post-Rex has been worse than Rex.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 20, 2023, 07:12:27 PM
Only in the sense that every Jets coach post-Rex has been worse than Rex.Mangini is only 52 years old. He's been in the lab the last 8 years, preparing a return to glory.
Imagine firing a coach after going 9-7. Imagine going 9-7.
Post by: Coach K on November 20, 2023, 09:20:59 PM
Mangini is only 52 years old. He's been in the lab the last 8 years, preparing a return to glory.Reading this makes me a sad panda hahahaha
Imagine firing a coach after going 9-7. Imagine going 9-7.
Post by: mj2sexay on November 20, 2023, 10:07:03 PM
Mangini is only 52 years old. He's been in the lab the last 8 years, preparing a return to glory.
Imagine firing a coach after going 9-7. Imagine going 9-7.
HEY TONE, YA SEE WHO'S IN THE RESTAURANT TONIGHT!?!
Mangenious....
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 20, 2023, 10:32:46 PM
Gase went 7-9 his first year which is better than Salah has done despite having more talent.
It's absolutely comparable, partially so that I can finally live down wanting to hire him considering I didn't want Salah.
Saleh
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2023, 10:34:00 PM
Saleh
Sally
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 10:34:24 PM
Saleh
Stop correcting his witty racism
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 20, 2023, 10:34:35 PM
Draft a QB and that guy will look like Tim Boyle Jr with this offensive unit next year
Post by: Jumbo on November 20, 2023, 10:40:19 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on November 21, 2023, 01:18:29 AM
Stop correcting his witty racism
Ahahahahaha you're such a fuckin low information sack of excrement.
Post by: Badger on November 21, 2023, 05:58:47 AM
Nothing's gonna change. I think we should all take a trip to Guyana with some Flavor-AidTailgate 2024
Post by: ons on November 21, 2023, 09:32:55 AM
The goal should always be to make a team that can blow out opponents, and can also close out close games against elite competition, not a dramatically unbalanced team that can hang in against almost any team with the plan to squeeze out wins on the last drive or two.
I still think Zach is better than what he's shown, but the organization has just committed to be derriere-backwards in how to develop QBs in this day and age.
I appreciate what Douglas has mostly done in terms of utilizing assets and mostly a good job with draft pick value, and still think he's getting slightly unfairly crippled in terms of o-line health, but ultimately the Douglas/Saleh partnership has demonstrated a complete lack of the critical understanding of offensive philosophies to build a competetive team.
I think the only way he 'should' be the GM next year is if the Rodgers decision + baggage (Hackett/Boyle/Lazard/Billy Turner/Cobb) was coming from Woody Johnson, in which case we're just kind of fucked regardless of who the GM is.
Post by: Badger on November 21, 2023, 06:36:29 PM
I appreciate what Douglas has mostly done in terms of utilizing assets and mostly a good job with draft pick value, and still think he's getting slightly unfairly crippled in terms of o-line health,
No, I'm mad at him for not predicting that players with no significant injury history would become perennial IR guys.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 21, 2023, 06:51:46 PM
No, I'm mad at him for not predicting that players with no significant injury history would become perennial IR guys.
Some injuries are freakish and unpredictable. But putting a 40 year old QB behind a makeshift OL, yeah Douglas gets blame for that. And Becton is a guy who came in with concerns about his weight/discipline, and he's had a bunch of knee problems.
Some stuff like AVT you can't predict, other excrement there was red flags
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2023, 07:09:46 PM
I can excuse this for happening the first time someone gets injured. When he keeps not putting in a backup plan for dudes who came off of IR the previous season, it gets old.
No, I'm mad at him for not predicting that players with no significant injury history would become perennial IR guys.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 08:13:49 AM
I can excuse this for happening the first time someone gets injured. When he keeps not putting in a backup plan for dudes who came off of IR the previous season, it gets old.
Exactly.
I talk about this a lot regarding baseball. It's one thing if a guy suffers an accidental catastrophic injury (broken bone crashing into a wall), it's a completely different one when a guy is perennially pulling his hammy.
Post by: Johnny English on November 22, 2023, 08:24:37 AM
Exactly.
I talk about this a lot regarding baseball. It's one thing if a guy suffers an accidental catastrophic injury (broken bone crashing into a wall), it's a completely different one when a guy is perennially pulling his hammy.
Yeah but next season when Becton and AVT are healthy for 17 games everything's going to be fine. Douglas is just unlucky, you know? Nothing he could have done about it.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 22, 2023, 11:59:23 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2023, 12:01:46 PM
The Will McDonald pick needed to be an offensive player or a trade back for an offensive player. Period.
That's sounds like a Saleh influenced pick.
And i agree with you, nothing against WMD, but we needed to go offense at that pick.
Addison should've been our pick. #HindsightIsDaBest
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 12:30:49 PM
The Will McDonald pick needed to be an offensive player or a trade back for an offensive player. Period.
1000 times this.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 12:32:38 PM
Maccagnan, scouting guru. Made almost zero impactful draft picks.
Douglas, OL guru. OL is the worst unit on the team.
It might be time to stop hiring "gurus."
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2023, 12:58:26 PM
Tannenbaum, cap guru. Put us in cap hell.
We should bring him back
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2023, 01:32:10 PM
We should bring him back
He was good at making the cap work each season, he was terrible at evaluating talent which made his cap skills more and more necessary as the seasons went on and we wound up having to trade for/sign/cut players left and right as the roster deteriorated.
As an AGM/cap specialist he would probably be useful. As the general manager he'd probably be another disaster.
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2023, 01:33:03 PM
We should bring him back
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/fjKUYm8N3GWdO/giphy.gif)
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2023, 01:34:08 PM
Post by: Badger on November 22, 2023, 01:54:06 PM
Tannenbaum, cap guru. Put us in cap hell.
Maccagnan, scouting guru. Made almost zero impactful draft picks.
Douglas, OL guru. OL is the worst unit on the team.
It might be time to stop hiring "gurus."
To be fair to Tanny, his "cap hell" was resolved in one off-season by Idzik simply using all the outs built into the contracts by Tanny.
Post by: Badger on November 22, 2023, 01:54:26 PM
We should bring him backTangini Redux
Post by: reuben on November 22, 2023, 02:22:45 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2023, 02:25:46 PM
lets run it back
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2023, 02:37:52 PM
Yeah, bring back Tanny
lets run it back
Can someone tell Heis that IS hacked his password?
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2023, 02:38:42 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 03:15:35 PM
pining for Tanny....we've really hit rock bottom.
Yeah, that post isn't getting the attention I expected.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 22, 2023, 04:22:53 PM
Tannenbaum, cap guru. Put us in cap hell.
Maccagnan, scouting guru. Made almost zero impactful draft picks.
Douglas, OL guru. OL is the worst unit on the team.
It might be time to stop hiring "gurus."
Maybe we just hire someone who sucks at everything. Time to get weird.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 05:18:59 PM
Maybe we just hire someone who sucks at everything. Time to get weird.
You'll note a missing GM in between a couple of those I listed. Suck at everything didn't work either.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2023, 05:29:31 PM
Maybe we just hire someone who sucks at everything. Time to get weird.
Crowd source GM duties.
Post by: Johnny English on November 22, 2023, 05:37:21 PM
You'll note a missing GM in between a couple of those I listed. Suck at everything didn't work either.
No one booked team travel as efficiently as he did.
Only the Jets would hire a freaking administrator to run their personnel decisions.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2023, 06:10:11 PM
No one booked team travel as efficiently as he did.
Only the Jets would hire a freaking administrator to run their personnel decisions.
Was he the Korn Ferry hire or was that MacCagnan?
Post by: Johnny English on November 22, 2023, 06:20:31 PM
Was he the Korn Ferry hire or was that MacCagnan?
Idzik was Korn Ferry. Maccagnan was Charley Casserly and Ron Wolf.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 24, 2023, 12:45:21 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2023, 12:48:54 PM
- Both made great trades early in their tenure (Brandon Marshall, Jamal Adams)
- Both drafted QB busts (Darnold, Wilson)
- Both drafted well in the 1st round outside QB
- Both drafted poorly outside the 1st round
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2023, 12:49:32 PM
https://x.com/haydenwinks/status/1728105492814393402?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Douglas/Maccagnan
- Both made great trades early in their tenure (Brandon Marshall, Jamal Adams)
- Both drafted QB busts (Darnold, Wilson)
- Both drafted well in the 1st round outside QB
- Both drafted poorly outside the 1st round
common denominator: Woody Johnson
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2023, 12:56:33 PM
common denominator: Woody JohnsonCan't fire the owner.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 24, 2023, 12:58:43 PM
common denominator: Woody JohnsonSo is having green uniforms.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2023, 01:00:00 PM
Can't fire the owner.
welcome to hell, son.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2023, 01:00:46 PM
So is having green uniforms.
the eagles are currently 9-1 wearing said color.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 24, 2023, 01:04:45 PM
the eagles are currently 9-1 wearing said color.
That's gay green.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2023, 01:09:37 PM
That's gay green.
You're thinking of Green Bay
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 24, 2023, 01:26:47 PM
Can't fire the owner.
This board has been tailgating for how long and Woody hasn't touched anyone inappropriately?
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2023, 01:34:59 PM
This board has been tailgating for how long and Woody hasn't touched anyone inappropriately?
He did....and blamed Puck.
Post by: insanity on November 24, 2023, 09:01:54 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2023, 09:07:43 PM
Although I am firmly in the camp that firing Douglas and Saleh is stupid and completely reactionary, I think now is the best time to say the pff mock draft guy was right. Trading up for avt did prove to be poor businessTrading up in general is poor business. Trading up for a RB is also bad process. But when you hit on the player, you get a pass. Problem is AVT has been hurt so it's hard to call him a big hit.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 25, 2023, 09:52:46 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 09:58:09 AM
Why should this guy get another shot at rebuilding the OL?
La'el Collins signing inbound.
Post by: MBGreen on November 25, 2023, 10:33:15 AM
Why should this guy get another shot at rebuilding the OL?
He shouldn't, but he probably will...because i can't see Woody eating the last 3 years of Douglas's 6 yr contract with a smile on his face.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 25, 2023, 10:57:03 AM
He shouldn't, but he probably will...because i can't see Woody eating the last 3 years of Douglas's 6 yr contract with a smile on his face.
I think we also need to really talk about timelines for a second…
Even if Rodgers signs off on cleaning house, we are bringing in guys who are locked into a QB for a year and that’s it. How many top candidates want that? Especially with a mandate to win right away and mortgage future assets to win right away (when they are 100% going to need a new QB in 26, if not in 25?) my guess is we’d get tier 2 or 3 candidates anyways, and subsequently won’t get long term results anyways.
You stay with the guys we have, because they got us into this mess, either they get us out of it, or the whole house burns to the ground and we have no choice but to go entirely scorched earth anyways.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 25, 2023, 11:14:37 AM
I think we also need to really talk about timelines for a second…
Even if Rodgers signs off on cleaning house, we are bringing in guys who are locked into a QB for a year and that’s it. How many top candidates want that? Especially with a mandate to win right away and mortgage future assets to win right away (when they are 100% going to need a new QB in 26, if not in 25?) my guess is we’d get tier 2 or 3 candidates anyways, and subsequently won’t get long term results anyways.
You stay with the guys we have, because they got us into this mess, either they get us out of it, or the whole house burns to the ground and we have no choice but to go entirely scorched earth anyways.
Well put, we are locked in for at least next year, minus maybe some lower level coaches. It makes no sense to clean house unless Rodgers isn't here next year.
Post by: MBGreen on November 25, 2023, 11:28:30 AM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
The #Jets O-Line allowed 12 pressures and 4 sacks against the Dolphins, per TruMedia.
But none of it came against Joe Tippmann.
45 pass-blocking snaps
0 pressures
0 sacks
The rookie has been one of the few offensive players exceeding expectations
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 25, 2023, 12:26:59 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 25, 2023, 12:27:50 PM
Why should this guy get another shot at rebuilding the OL?
3 OTs from this class are destined to be all pros, we will Tia the one that gets hurt in TC his rookie year and never recovers
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 12:27:51 PM
https://x.com/andrewbrandt/status/1728419295778984165?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Yep.
Post by: insanity on November 25, 2023, 02:50:16 PM
Trading up in general is poor business. Trading up for a RB is also bad process. But when you hit on the player, you get a pass. Problem is AVT has been hurt so it's hard to call him a big hit.One of the biggest reasons it's poor business is because of injury. The fully stand buy the more shots you get in the top 5 the better. Statistics are also starting to prove that the second round is more valuable than the 1st. The first reason is hit rate but the more important reason is salary.
Post by: insanity on November 28, 2023, 06:19:05 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 28, 2023, 06:56:53 AM
I'm not sure how you can say Douglas whiffed on a qb when all the qbs in that draft sucked.Looking at a pile of excrement and thinking the future of your franchise is in there is still a whiff.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2023, 02:59:17 PM
I'm not sure how you can say Douglas whiffed on a qb when all the qbs in that draft sucked.Like Cato said, he still made the decision to draft Zach at 2. He could have decided the QBs weren't worth it and do something creative (if the Johnsons let him). He could have kept Sam and traded down for a haul of picks, or taken Ja'Marr Chase.
The dream scenario is the Jets end up with back-to-back loaded draft classes in 2021-22 and then add Rodgers in 2023.
But the more likely scenario is the Jets take a big swing at QB in 2022 to move on from Darnold, and we end up with like Wilson or Watson, which would also be a disaster.
Post by: insanity on November 28, 2023, 05:03:30 PM
Like Cato said, he still made the decision to draft Zach at 2. He could have decided the QBs weren't worth it and do something creative (if the Johnsons let him). He could have kept Sam and traded down for a haul of picks, or taken Ja'Marr Chase.
The dream scenario is the Jets end up with back-to-back loaded draft classes in 2021-22 and then add Rodgers in 2023.
But the more likely scenario is the Jets take a big swing at QB in 2022 to move on from Darnold, and we end up with like Wilson or Watson, which would also be a disaster.
(I'm excluding the idea of keeping darnold because he clearly isn't the solution)
You're living in a dream world. If we left that draft without a top qb we all would have been begging for joes head on a platter. Every single gm in the league thought that draft class was going to have starting qbs. The 49ers traded 3 1st round picks just to get a shot at the third best qb.
Your analogy makes absolutely no sense.
What happened is equivalent to 31 people ordering 4 pizzas.
Everyone being excited to eat the pizza because it looks delicious.
Having everyone get sick from food poisoning
And then after the fact calling one person more of an idiot than another person because they ate the pizza first.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 28, 2023, 05:06:29 PM
(I'm excluding the idea of keeping darnold because he clearly isn't the solution)No
You're living in a dream world. If we left that draft without a top qb we all would have been begging for joes head on a platter. Every single gm in the league thought that draft class was going to have starting qbs. The 49ers traded 3 1st round picks just to get a shot at the third best qb.
Your analogy makes absolutely no sense.
What happened is equivalent to 31 people ordering 4 pizzas.
Everyone being excited to eat the pizza because it looks delicious.
Having everyone get sick from food poisoning
And then after the fact calling one person more of an idiot than another person because they ate the pizza first.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2023, 05:28:51 PM
(I'm excluding the idea of keeping darnold because he clearly isn't the solution)There were people on this board who wanted to keep Darnold and build around him. There were plenty of Jets fans who felt that way.
You're living in a dream world. If we left that draft without a top qb we all would have been begging for joes head on a platter. Every single gm in the league thought that draft class was going to have starting qbs. The 49ers traded 3 1st round picks just to get a shot at the third best qb.
Your analogy makes absolutely no sense.
What happened is equivalent to 31 people ordering 4 pizzas.
Everyone being excited to eat the pizza because it looks delicious.
Having everyone get sick from food poisoning
And then after the fact calling one person more of an idiot than another person because they ate the pizza first.
I was with you (and JD) in that you needed to take a swing at QB while you have the high pick, and it looked like a strong QB class on paper. But if the Jets decided to build up the rest of the roster and add a QB later, or maybe get lucky with an improving Darnold, I think a lot of rational fans wouldn't want him fired. Especially once the season began and they saw Fields/Wilson/Lance play.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 28, 2023, 05:32:37 PM
I don't see the evidence that I was wrong.
Post by: Johnny English on November 28, 2023, 06:06:35 PM
There were people on this board who wanted to keep Darnold and build around him. There were plenty of Jets fans who felt that way.
And time has proven it likely that those of who did were right, and that we would have been in a better position had we done that. As you suggested we could have used the #2 on Chase or Sewell, or even traded down and used the extras to do something like De'vonta Smith and Darrisaw. Instead we threw away the talented QB we'd wasted for three years and drafted another one to do the exact same thing with.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 28, 2023, 06:14:46 PM
And time has proven it likely that those of who did were right, and that we would have been in a better position had we done that. As you suggested we could have used the #2 on Chase or Sewell, or even traded down and used the extras to do something like De'vonta Smith and Darrisaw. Instead we threw away the talented QB we'd wasted for three years and drafted another one to do the exact same thing with.Douglas would take a bullet before he trades down in the first round.
Post by: Johnny English on November 28, 2023, 06:17:48 PM
Douglas would take a bullet before he trades down in the first round.
He did it this year, albeit as part of a bigger deal.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 28, 2023, 06:23:09 PM
He did it this year, albeit as part of a bigger deal.I meant specifically on draft day but I'll take the hit.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 28, 2023, 06:37:31 PM
But sticking with another bust from the past wasn't a good option either. Darnold was awful in year 3, as bad as any Zach season. The most likely scenario was we would have to move on from him after the year. And then we probably are flirting with Rodgers and get in the Wilson/Watson sweepstakes. Maybe we draft Pickett at 10.
There was a much higher chance a QB picked #2 in allegedly a great QB draft is useful than the #3 pick from 3 years ago who hasn't shown much and needs a contract soon. There's a lot of opportunity cost (#2 overall pick vs 2nd-rd pick we got for Darnold), but I think that opportunity cost is worth it if you take the right QB. They didn't take the right QB. Most of us liked him. I was indifferent between him and Fields. Fields is better than both Sam and Zach, but he is still a question mark late in year 3.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 28, 2023, 08:04:17 PM
We continue to put QBs behind garbage lines and wonder why they don't succeed. We gather backs who have speed as a weapon and wonder why we can't get anywhere up the middle.
I was a big fan of the Douglas hire because I thought he'd develop an elite OL. He stated multiple times (correctly) that everything starts in the trenches. Only problem seems to be he made sure the defensive one was the elite unit.
Post by: Jumbo on November 29, 2023, 01:20:29 AM
To piggyback off JE, I was anti-tank and 100% in favor of not drafting a QB. I've been saying ever since Brick and Mangold retired I wanted to draft OL until the unit was elite. Then draft a QB.
We continue to put QBs behind garbage lines and wonder why they don't succeed. We gather backs who have speed as a weapon and wonder why we can't get anywhere up the middle.
I was a big fan of the Douglas hire because I thought he'd develop an elite OL. He stated multiple times (correctly) that everything starts in the trenches. Only problem seems to be he made sure the defensive one was the elite unit.
I don't really get this line of rationale. Not like having an elite OL helped Sanchez develop at all. He barely "succeeded," we won in spite of him. It did work well for the team for a couple of years because of the elite OL but it didn't help develop him really. Guys like Stroud come in and play well without an elite OL. It doesn't seem overly correlated to developing well to me. And it's very hard to keep an elite OL together for more than a couple of years, it's like keeping an elite defense together.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 29, 2023, 06:58:24 AM
I don't really get this line of rationale. Not like having an elite OL helped Sanchez develop at all. He barely "succeeded," we won in spite of him. It did work well for the team for a couple of years because of the elite OL but it didn't help develop him really. Guys like Stroud come in and play well without an elite OL. It doesn't seem overly correlated to developing well to me. And it's very hard to keep an elite OL together for more than a couple of years, it's like keeping an elite defense together.
This seems like revisionist history. Sanchez improved from year 1 to year 2. And then year 3 Wayne Hunter happened and ruined him.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 29, 2023, 07:02:19 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 29, 2023, 07:06:00 AM
(https://dedupelist.com/)
Looks like a correlation between good pass blocking and good offenses. We should give it a try and see what happens.
SF is #3 in run blocking, PHI is #1.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 29, 2023, 07:27:39 AM
(I'm excluding the idea of keeping darnold because he clearly isn't the solution)
You're living in a dream world. If we left that draft without a top qb we all would have been begging for joes head on a platter. Every single gm in the league thought that draft class was going to have starting qbs. The 49ers traded 3 1st round picks just to get a shot at the third best qb.
Your analogy makes absolutely no sense.
What happened is equivalent to 31 people ordering 4 pizzas.
Everyone being excited to eat the pizza because it looks delicious.
Having everyone get sick from food poisoning
And then after the fact calling one person more of an idiot than another person because they ate the pizza first.
49ers had to trade up because they were a win now team and there was no way they'd have another shot at a top QB in the draft.
The Jets were a cesspool who would be able to draft a QB in the next 2-3 years. The 49ers were a SB contender that suffered major injuries to like the top 4-5 players on their team, and still ended up with only the 12th pick, and having a healthy QB was what they viewed us a final piece.
The circumstances of us drafting Wilson does not compare to the 49ers. And Jones just fell into the laps of the Patriots
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2023, 07:30:10 AM
This seems like revisionist history. Sanchez improved from year 1 to year 2. And then year 3 Wayne Hunter happened and ruined him.Even his year 3 was one of the most productive all-time for a Jets QB. Just too many turnovers.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 29, 2023, 08:05:50 AM
Stroud looks like a unicorn. Part of the reason guys like Purdy and Hurts look so good is because of their OL.
I was thinking about this earlier this morning. There are extremely few unicorns in the history of football. QBs who just will their way to stardom are ridiculously rare. And even then, did any of them have "bad" offensive lines?
Even guys like Manning and Brady, when they got hit, performed significantly worse.
QB is the most important position in the sport, but OLine is the most important position group.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 29, 2023, 08:17:16 AM
Stroud looks like a unicorn. Part of the reason guys like Purdy and Hurts look so good is because of their OL.Roethlisberger was like this early in his career. He'd have dropbacks where he'd take one or two hits and still have his eyes downfield.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 29, 2023, 08:51:58 AM
He barely "succeeded," we won in spite of him.
He won us a handful of games.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 29, 2023, 09:26:36 AM
Even his year 3 was one of the most productive all-time for a Jets QB. Just too many turnovers.
Yeah I was actually surprised to see this, he took small strides forward each year 1-3.
26/27 sacks in years 1/2.
39 sacks in year 3.
Post by: Jumbo on November 29, 2023, 10:05:56 AM
This seems like revisionist history. Sanchez improved from year 1 to year 2. And then year 3 Wayne Hunter happened and ruined him.
He had 17 TD and 13 INT with a 75.3 passer rating in 2010 with a ton of talent on that team around him. Not like he was a world beater by any stretch.
Plus his main regression was really from year 3 to year 4 after Wayne was gone.
I just think in general the guy is the guy or he's not unless the situation is absolutely dreadful. That might apply to a guy like Darnold, but I don't think you need to build an elite OL to have a better chance at a franchise QB. If anything, you're delaying the inevitable by making someone who maybe isn't the guy look a bit better than he is, like Sanchez.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 29, 2023, 10:10:24 AM
And Sanchez wasn't just elevated, he QB'd two AFC title games. And his play deteriorated parallel to the OL.
An elite QB will be elite with an average line. An average QB will perform well with an elite line. Nobody performs behind a terrible line.
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2023, 10:22:19 AM
You don't need to build an elite line. But you need a quality one.
This. Since I've followed the team we've never made the playoffs with a below average OL. And only twice did we miss the playoffs with a good OL (2008, 2015).
I cannot recall a good Jets team that won games in spite of a bad OL. If I had to guess, that hasn't happened since Ken O'Brien.
Post by: MBGreen on November 29, 2023, 10:24:32 AM
This. Since I've followed the team we've never made the playoffs with a below average OL. And only twice did we miss the playoffs with a good OL (2008, 2015).
I cannot recall a good Jets team that won games in spite of a bad OL.
We could put together a top 3 oline, but injuries are always undefeated.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 29, 2023, 10:37:12 AM
We literally drafted Geno with a top 40 pick after 2012.
One of the worst draft picks in franchise history
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2023, 10:39:27 AM
We could put together a top 3 oline, but injuries are always undefeated.The last couple years are the only ones I remember where we were primarily bad on OL because of injury and not just lack of talent. Last year moreso than this year.
I can't remember having an injury run as bad as Becton's for a presumed OL starter.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 29, 2023, 10:42:07 AM
The last couple years are the only ones I remember where we were primarily bad on OL because of injury and not just lack of talent. Last year moreso than this year.
I can't remember having an injury run as bad as Becton's for a presumed OL starter.
Speaking of...is Becton done for the season?
Post by: bojanglesman on November 29, 2023, 10:43:38 AM
Speaking of...is Becton done for the season?
Don't think so, he almost made it back last week, suspect he will be questionable this week. Just an ankle sprain, not the high-ankle variety.
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2023, 10:43:41 AM
Speaking of...is Becton done for the season?I think he's week to week? But maybe Saleh lied.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 29, 2023, 10:49:20 AM
One of the worst draft picks in franchise history
Still Better Than Hackenberg
Post by: insanity on November 29, 2023, 12:07:36 PM
49ers had to trade up because they were a win now team and there was no way they'd have another shot at a top QB in the draft.Despite the position the team was in they still thought it was a good investment to trade up for a non guaranteed qb
The Jets were a cesspool who would be able to draft a QB in the next 2-3 years. The 49ers were a SB contender that suffered major injuries to like the top 4-5 players on their team, and still ended up with only the 12th pick, and having a healthy QB was what they viewed us a final piece.
The circumstances of us drafting Wilson does not compare to the 49ers. And Jones just fell into the laps of the Patriots
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2023, 12:10:23 PM
Still Better Than HackenbergGeno is the 3rd-best player the Jets have taken in the 2nd round in 2 decades.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2023, 12:28:00 PM
I like the Sanchize as much as the next guy but let's not get super revisionist on him and how successful he was now. No one was locking him in as a bona fide franchise QB after 2011, let alone the prior two years. We literally drafted Geno with a top 40 pick after 2012.It's easy to look like you're developing when you set the bar as low as Sanchez did as a rookie. When you start as the literal worst quarterback in the NFL, it's hard to get much worse.
He had 17 TD and 13 INT with a 75.3 passer rating in 2010 with a ton of talent on that team around him. Not like he was a world beater by any stretch.
Plus his main regression was really from year 3 to year 4 after Wayne was gone.
I just think in general the guy is the guy or he's not unless the situation is absolutely dreadful. That might apply to a guy like Darnold, but I don't think you need to build an elite OL to have a better chance at a franchise QB. If anything, you're delaying the inevitable by making someone who maybe isn't the guy look a bit better than he is, like Sanchez.
I left the 2010 AFC Championship Game thinking he would be the QB of the future, but he plateaued in 2011. Sure, there were more touchdowns, but that's mostly because we put more on his shoulders, and he also had more turnovers and more sacks. Overall, he was probably the same mediocre player. Then in 2012, he completely fell apart.
Sure, the supporting cast fell apart around him, but Mark proved he was basically a mediocre backup. When you give him an elite offensive line and great skill players, he can be mediocre. When he wasn't being lifted up by his teammates, he fell apart. But credit to Sanchez - he played efficiently in the playoffs.
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2023, 12:32:35 PM
Geno is the 3rd-best player the Jets have taken in the 2nd round in 2 decades.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231129/ba77bdcd0b795af2db967bea9621e167.jpg)
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 29, 2023, 12:54:44 PM
This. Since I've followed the team we've never made the playoffs with a below average OL. And only twice did we miss the playoffs with a good OL (2008, 2015).
I cannot recall a good Jets team that won games in spite of a bad OL. If I had to guess, that hasn't happened since Ken O'Brien.
I can't say this with evidence and don't know if I could locate proof, but I'm pretty confident teams with bottom-third OL rarely, if ever, make the playoffs. If you don't keep your QB clean and/or give lanes to your RBs, you don't win games in the NFL. I don't care who your skill players are.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 29, 2023, 01:19:11 PM
I can't say this with evidence and don't know if I could locate proof, but I'm pretty confident teams with bottom-third OL rarely, if ever, make the playoffs. If you don't keep your QB clean and/or give lanes to your RBs, you don't win games in the NFL. I don't care who your skill players are.The Bengals, Dolphins, Bills, Jaguars, and Seahawks all made the playoffs last season with mediocre or worse offensive lines. The Titans were 1 game away from the playoffs with maybe the worst OL in the NFL.
Having a good offensive line is very important, but this offensive line will look a hell of a lot better with a QB and/or coach who knows what he's doing.
Post by: Coach K on November 29, 2023, 01:20:30 PM
One of the worst draft picks in franchise historyGoing into that draft I remember saying as long as they don't draft Geno
The Jets invent new ways to torture their fans every yr
Post by: Coach K on November 29, 2023, 01:21:08 PM
Still Better Than HackenbergThe other guy I wanted no part of .
But a 4th vs a top 40
Lol
Le sigh
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 29, 2023, 02:10:50 PM
The other guy I wanted no part of .
But a 4th vs a top 40
Lol
Le sigh
Hackenberg was a 2nd round pick
Post by: Coach K on November 29, 2023, 03:05:29 PM
Hackenberg was a 2nd round pickOh well there you go I try to block out the trauma
Maybe I confused it with what I had him at . Lol
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2023, 03:38:48 PM
Oh well there you go I try to block out the traumaMaybe you mixed him up with James Morgan.
Maybe I confused it with what I had him at . Lol
Post by: Coach K on November 29, 2023, 04:49:09 PM
Maybe you mixed him up with James Morgan.*internal terror intensifies *
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 30, 2023, 09:34:52 AM
Ah Matt Millen, the worst GM I’ve ever seen in my life
Post by: MBGreen on November 30, 2023, 09:37:39 AM
https://x.com/szantz/status/1730205622941909468?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Ah Matt Millen, the worst GM I’ve ever seen in my life
Douglas has excrement the bed...but he's not heading into year 6. The doofus who tweeted that flunked grade 2 math.
Post by: mj2sexay on November 30, 2023, 10:35:20 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 05, 2023, 01:03:53 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 05, 2023, 01:29:35 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 30, 2023, 08:04:22 PM
Post by: Badger on December 30, 2023, 08:06:37 PM
https://x.com/stillryanfive/status/1741275278670729547?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkgAt least we're not the Raiders
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 30, 2023, 08:13:39 PM
We know that the QB situation was terribly handled but I'm also willing to think they'd have learned from the mistake. Of course, we'll still have Hackett, and that SUCKS, maybe so bad that we might not be able to overcome it, but as long as Rodgers is healthy, we'll have a chance, if they learnt their lessons. I don't have much trust in Saleh in general, but I still trust Douglas. Let's hope he's up to the task.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 30, 2023, 08:32:22 PM
It's not a blessing in disguise. AFC is down this year. Even if Rodgers played half a season and then got hurt, the vibes would have been a lot different competing for a playoff spot later. If this offense were 25th instead of 32nd, they would be right in the playoff mix.
The warts would have shown themselves during the season. Most likely Rodgers gets hurt at some point by taking too many hits. The only part I can maybe agree with you is with Lazard. I don't think he's getting healthy scratched with Rodgers. He's probably getting like 500 yards and a couple touchdowns and maybe they pretend he can be a viable WR2/WR3 again if Garrett has a monster year.
Post by: Coach K on December 30, 2023, 09:06:33 PM
This year has made me question this regime and organization, lol
JD is a retard who sat on his hands after building an OL that was a house of cards on fat old and injury prone players
He then solidified it with excrement depth
He then allowed zach wilson to be QB 2 in what was to he a "redshirt year" he then doubled down by not acquiring a competent vet or backup even after rolling the dice and failing
Not only did he fail to make a move after week one he then triples down and does nothing by the trade deadline
Why get OL or QBs we got freaking Roger Saffold and Siemian
Good thing Saffold hasn't even touched the field . Good call .
We almost got smoked in a epic meltdown by one of the QBs who was on the trading block and shluldve been here since the offseason in Brissett
Indy and CLE had the same scenario we have but competent GM and Coaching staffs showed you how you respond
Saleh hand picked 2 awful OCs and literally hand picked Keith Carter .
JD is like a retarded willy Wonka hiding in his factory until he will be forced to come out to the media
Saleh has looked and sounded broken and I've yet to see a game where this team was prepared and performing for 4 qtrs in all 3 phases .
This is year 3 for freak sakes .
JD has made good moves witb a few waiver wire and UDFAs hes had one of the best draft classes ever in jets history
All that being said if you looked at the resources he had to build this. Most people would have at least accomplished the same
We have a defensive HC who has produced a team with more 17+ point losses than wins
I've run out of enthusiasm and good faith for this regime .
We have a good defense . Whoopty freaking doo. Considering the resources sunk into it I'd freaking hope so .
We're 3 starting OL and 1 starting WR away from resembling a functional offense
This can all be turned around but let's be honest if it weren't for Rodgers being on the roster any sane fan would be begging to clean house .
They got their mulligan . Now they better freaking win next yr
And Keith Carter has to go if they let him keep his job Saleh is a nutless loser .
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 31, 2023, 07:25:39 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 31, 2023, 11:39:20 AM
The Jets have a poorly constructed roster and bad coaching. Rodgers' injury was the absolute worst thing that could've happened because it gave this regime a mulligan. One in which not only do they get an undeserved second chance at an all-in year, but one in which they know without a doubt they have to mortgage years of the future to have a shot to save their jobs.
I always say there are no undesirable HC jobs in the NFL, but after next year, this might be as close to one as you'll ever see.
Post by: Coach K on December 31, 2023, 01:39:16 PM
Yeah, no blessings here. Other teams showed they could win with backup QBs and multiple OL injuries.Joe Douglas gonna be tbe Billy King of the NFL
The Jets have a poorly constructed roster and bad coaching. Rodgers' injury was the absolute worst thing that could've happened because it gave this regime a mulligan. One in which not only do they get an undeserved second chance at an all-in year, but one in which they know without a doubt they have to mortgage years of the future to have a shot to save their jobs.
I always say there are no undesirable HC jobs in the NFL, but after next year, this might be as close to one as you'll ever see.
We're at our KG Pierce era now
Post by: bojanglesman on December 31, 2023, 01:58:34 PM
https://x.com/boygreen25/status/1741449548667482286?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkgThat idiot was suggesting we should sign back Jamal Adams.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 01, 2024, 11:57:01 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 01, 2024, 12:33:32 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 01, 2024, 06:07:03 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 01, 2024, 08:35:39 PM
Would have been cool if his teams focused on offense while he was here.
Yeah
I loved Rex, but he's seriously ignoring that he demanded guys like Calvin Pryor and Quinton Coples when Sanchez needed a lot of help.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 01, 2024, 08:51:23 PM
Yeah
I loved Rex, but he's seriously ignoring that he demanded guys like Calvin Pryor and Quinton Coples when Sanchez needed a lot of help.
And Kyle Wilson, Dee Milliner, Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson...
Post by: dcm1602 on January 01, 2024, 09:10:37 PM
And Kyle Wilson, Dee Milliner, Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson...
Wilson was the 29th pick. Milliner IIRC was considered BPA. And Richardson and Wilkerson were both great picks (despite how their time here ended). One dude was DROTY and improved the following year. And the other was in the DPOTY conversation during his time. Both went to excrement after Rex was gone but were very good to excellent while he was the HC
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 01, 2024, 09:18:43 PM
Wilson was the 29th pick. Milliner IIRC was considered BPA. And Richardson and Wilkerson were both great picks (despite how their time here ended). One dude was DROTY and improved the following year. And the other was in the DPOTY conversation during his time. Both went to excrement after Rex was gone but were very good to excellent while he was the HCDo you legally classified as a dwarf?
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 02, 2024, 08:52:14 AM
Wilson was the 29th pick. Milliner IIRC was considered BPA. And Richardson and Wilkerson were both great picks (despite how their time here ended). One dude was DROTY and improved the following year. And the other was in the DPOTY conversation during his time. Both went to excrement after Rex was gone but were very good to excellent while he was the HC
And each helped Sanchez...how?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2024, 10:45:27 AM
One more chance to fix the OL
Into the last good fight I'll ever know
Live and die on this day
Live and die on this day
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2024, 11:02:01 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 02, 2024, 11:49:01 AM
We don’t even have a second round pick to waste on a WR who won’t make it past year three of his rookie contract this season. Sad.
Trade up incoming
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2024, 03:00:40 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2024, 05:42:38 PM
He could stop saying excrement like this and stop making it worse.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2024, 05:47:21 PM
https://x.com/ZackBlatt/status/1744460879859429711?s=20 (https://x.com/ZackBlatt/status/1744460879859429711?s=20)In b4 CB or TE becomes BPA at #10
He could stop saying excrement like this and stop making it worse.
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2024, 05:59:27 PM
https://x.com/ZackBlatt/status/1744460879859429711?s=20 (https://x.com/ZackBlatt/status/1744460879859429711?s=20)Not surprised.
He could stop saying excrement like this and stop making it worse.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2024, 06:01:31 PM
Not surprised.This is a good time to bump the Adventures of Bork thread
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 08, 2024, 06:50:20 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2024, 06:56:02 PM
This lover of the older lady's gonna draft a safety
Yeah but just think what a haul we'll get when we trade him three years later. You have to think about the big picture.
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2024, 07:21:53 PM
Yeah but just think what a haul we'll get when we trade him three years later. You have to think about the big picture.Those picks will be extremely useful for helping us build a roster despite Laken Tomlinson's 2028 cap hit.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2024, 07:30:10 PM
They are running it back and retooling the OL and receivers. Everything else is fluff.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 09, 2024, 04:21:09 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on January 09, 2024, 09:47:01 AM
You have to be out of your freaking mind to defend Saleh or Douglas, they're awful and any other organization would have sent these guys packing.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2024, 09:52:06 AM
Why is it Jets fans defend mediocre to bad players, coaches and gm's? Just because this stiff isn't as bad as Idzick or Duff doesn't mean he's good. He's most definitely not a good GM.
You have to be out of your freaking mind to defend Saleh or Douglas, they're awful and any other organization would have sent these guys packing.
Woody is a garbage owner.
Doesn't know when to pull the plug on a regime, and when he does it's too late. Then we're setback even further. Or he'll dismantle it piece meal wise (fire a GM, keep a coach), then realize that was fucked up too, which sets us back a few more years.
Post by: Miamipuck on January 09, 2024, 11:17:40 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2024, 11:35:42 AM
And you guys act as if we drafted a random player position in every draft since Douglas arrived. First draft he got a QB (need), then an OL (needs), then a CB, WR, OL and RB (all needs), the only time he went BPA in his board was last year and that was after everybody and their mothers picked OLs before us. Yeah, he could have picked a WR but Davis was still there and Lazard was supposed to be decent. Douglas has drafted the right positions since he arrived to the Jets, he has got the players wrong sometimes but it’s not like he’s just doing random excrement like Idzik or Maccagnan.Agreed. Douglas' plans have mostly made sense in the draft. The players just haven't always worked out. I still think taking an edge rusher isn't bad process either given how the board fell. Would prefer a WR but if they were convinced WMD was BPA, I get it
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 09, 2024, 11:48:36 AM
The main issue for me with Douglas is his inability to put together an OL. I'm still convinced part of the problem is coaching, but it's pretty hard to whiff so many times. Especially when that's supposed to be his bread-and-butter.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 09, 2024, 12:59:09 PM
Why is it Jets fans defend mediocre to bad players, coaches and gm's? Just because this stiff isn't as bad as Idzick or Duff doesn't mean he's good. He's most definitely not a good GM.
You have to be out of your freaking mind to defend Saleh or Douglas, they're awful and any other organization would have sent these guys packing.
I don't defend Douglas, but he's head and shoulders better than our previous GMs. It wasn't hard but at least we've got a semblance of competence and some talented and exciting players. His demise will be the OL play and the HC he chose, but I don't think he's done a bad job with the rest of the roster.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2024, 01:05:07 PM
I don't defend Douglas, but he's head and shoulders better than our previous GMs. It wasn't hard but at least we've got a semblance of competence and some talented and exciting players. His demise will be the OL play and the HC he chose, but I don't think he's done a bad job with the rest of the roster.His demise is the OL and the QB. The problem is that the OL was the biggest issue when he arrived, and QB is the most important position in the game.
Saleh seems like a JAG. There's no reason they can't win with Saleh like they won with Rex if the offensive talent improves. It's not like Rex was coaching that offense to be average in 2010.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 09, 2024, 01:08:20 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2024, 01:27:10 PM
And here we are four years later.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 05:40:14 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 09, 2024, 06:25:52 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 14, 2024, 10:28:17 PM
- signed Lazard
- signed Cook
- drafted WMD (played the lowest % of snaps of a Jets 1st rounder since Vernon Gholston)
- drafted Tippamn (I think he’s good, but started behind McGovern)
-Carter Warren/Izzy
This wasnt nearly enough
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 14, 2024, 10:30:14 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 14, 2024, 10:32:15 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 14, 2024, 10:35:20 PM
Douglas absolutely misplayed the Huff situation as a whole though. They had him here and didn't evaluate him well enough to give him an extension that would now look like a bargain.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 14, 2024, 11:41:46 PM
Maybe the goal wasn't necessarily to go "all in" and it's to build a long-term contender, and they thought WMD was part of that solution.
Douglas absolutely misplayed the Huff situation as a whole though. They had him here and didn't evaluate him well enough to give him an extension that would now look like a bargain.
He was a role player with 3 sacks in 2022.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 14, 2024, 11:52:54 PM
He was a role player with 3 sacks in 2022.Then why didn't they recognize his talent earlier? Every advanced metric said this guy was awesome on a per-snap basis. It's not like this came out of nowhere. We all knew he was talented. He's been on this roster for years. Why can't our GM and coaching staff self-evaluate Huff?
"He was a role player with 3 sacks" is more of a knock on Saleh/Douglas than it is an excuse for not signing him. Saleh should have played him more. Or Douglas should have used that as a way to sign him to a longer deal for less money.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 15, 2024, 05:41:32 AM
Then why didn't they recognize his talent earlier? Every advanced metric said this guy was awesome on a per-snap basis. It's not like this came out of nowhere. We all knew he was talented. He's been on this roster for years. Why can't our GM and coaching staff self-evaluate Huff?
"He was a role player with 3 sacks" is more of a knock on Saleh/Douglas than it is an excuse for not signing him. Saleh should have played him more. Or Douglas should have used that as a way to sign him to a longer deal for less money.
I mean it’s also possible that he has improved since last year as well, and developed his game to be good enough to succeed on a higher percentage of snaps than he could in years past. Players do take big jumps, just look at Quincy this year.
Post by: Jumbo on January 15, 2024, 08:29:44 AM
I mean it’s also possible that he has improved since last year as well, and developed his game to be good enough to succeed on a higher percentage of snaps than he could in years past. Players do take big jumps, just look at Quincy this year.
If anything it's a good thing Huff was able to develop in the scheme like he did and speaks well to the potential of developing WMD
Post by: Badger on January 15, 2024, 09:23:35 AM
Even if MWD is good, Joe Douglas misplayed this situation. We’re about to let Bryce Huff Walk and hope that WMD is as good as him.Mill WcDonald
Post by: bojanglesman on January 15, 2024, 10:17:29 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2024, 10:56:20 AM
Maybe the goal wasn't necessarily to go "all in" and it's to build a long-term contender, and they thought WMD was part of that solution.
Douglas absolutely misplayed the Huff situation as a whole though. They had him here and didn't evaluate him well enough to give him an extension that would now look like a bargain.
We traded what should have been a first for Aaron Rodgers.
Our window to win is while BH, GW, and Sauce are all on their rookie deals.
He also made this deal with no assurance that he would play any longer than a year.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 15, 2024, 11:07:36 AM
Maybe the goal wasn't necessarily to go "all in" and it's to build a long-term contender, and they thought WMD was part of that solution.
Douglas absolutely misplayed the Huff situation as a whole though. They had him here and didn't evaluate him well enough to give him an extension that would now look like a bargain.
Then he fucked that up pretty hard.
Post by: Coach K on January 15, 2024, 12:12:58 PM
He tried. He's selected two linemen per draft, he's signed many linemen FA's. He's just being excrement at evaluating talent and unlucky with injuries.The evaluating talent part is like a top 2 job responsibility lol
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 15, 2024, 12:33:58 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 15, 2024, 05:42:32 PM
Even if MWD is good, Joe Douglas misplayed this situation. We’re about to let Bryce Huff Walk and hope that WMD is as good as him.
this would be careless as freak but I can see douglas doing this and thinking everything will just be okay and work itself out. the way brown's rehab straight to LT week 1 to protect rodgers worked itself out
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2024, 07:58:01 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 11, 2024, 09:25:18 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 09:26:19 PM
I’ve seen enough
It’s ironic that enough is him doing absolutely nothing at all
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 11, 2024, 09:26:59 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 11, 2024, 09:44:12 PM
It’s ironic that enough is him doing absolutely nothing at all
Me when my career is on the line
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 11:34:45 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 12, 2024, 07:47:24 AM
I guess at least he didn't do any of that.
Post by: Johnny English on March 12, 2024, 07:55:01 AM
I remember when my fear was that he was going to cash strap the team for years or trade away tons of future draft capital and hurt the next regime......yet.
I guess at least he didn't do any of that.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 12, 2024, 08:27:00 AM
.....yet.
Why would you do this?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 12, 2024, 08:29:00 AM
https://x.com/jetsfiend/status/1767255341320863744?s=46&t=5ospF-7U7rY0VTGIg3PZLg
Praying Woddy saw this tweet
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 12, 2024, 08:29:04 AM
.....yet.We could probably land a decent haul for Sauce.
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 08:57:31 AM
Fire Douglas. I've seen enough.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 12, 2024, 08:58:25 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 09:23:10 AM
See, this is why I treat every GM as incompetent until they prove they aren't.
I don't drink enough to be miserable 24/7
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 12, 2024, 09:33:59 AM
I don't drink enough to be miserable 24/7
Who said anything about being miserable. This just puts me at apathetic.
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 09:36:13 AM
Who said anything about being miserable. This just puts me at apathetic.
You need to go through misery to get to apathy....then death.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 12, 2024, 11:48:02 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 11:55:18 AM
I'm guessing JD's overall philosophy is that Rodgers will fix all the remaining problems.
This will be on all our tombstones
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 14, 2024, 10:56:22 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2024, 10:59:08 PM
https://x.com/michael_nania/status/1768462649166377471?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1762527017138839552/Ff8QuaKs_400x400.jpg)
Tony Pauline's bastard child
Post by: Libero_2 on March 15, 2024, 04:14:50 AM
https://x.com/michael_nania/status/1768462649166377471?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I know you hate the guy because he’s a stats nerd with only a smidgeon of football context. But he is basically all of us emotionally when it comes to the Jets.
To answer his question:
- Johnson is a malcontent that the Steelers (and their fans) are glad to rid of, and a few Steelers fans I know were surprised they got that much. The Steelers know when to dump WRs. Brown, Juju, Claypool and now Johnson, in 12-18 months, Pickens will be next. And so far none of them have been even remotely successful somewhere else. I don’t suspect Johnson will either.
- I believe Keenan’s cap hit was $33 million for LA this year. Idk what the cap hit in a trade was, but no shot it was something easily workable for us. And I’m sure LA wanted to send him to the NFC. If he was cut… I’d have been all over him, but he wasn’t, and we couldn’t take on that contract right now, even for a 7th.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2024, 07:22:17 AM
“Near interception!”
It’s Bleacher Report mixed with PFF.
Post by: Coach K on March 15, 2024, 08:52:26 AM
https://x.com/michael_nania/status/1768462649166377471?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkgDiontae Johnson is a queynte and I wouldn't want him
Trading for Allen's contract is absurd too
Nania can shut up
We gotta do something but doing something for the sake of doing it isn't the answer either lol
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 15, 2024, 09:33:10 AM
and we still need a pass rusher too as we let our own home-grown guy go for a contract we could have / should have been able to match
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2024, 09:37:12 AM
so what's the plan for WR? coerce corey davis into re-signing for us out of retirement? throw money at a guy like williams coming off an ACL?
not a lot of movement with FA WRs
Quote
and we still need a pass rusher too as we let our own home-grown guy go for a contract we could have / should have been able to match
Clowney is visiting
Post by: MBGreen on March 15, 2024, 09:37:30 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 15, 2024, 09:45:46 AM
not a lot of movement with FA WRs
think this defaults us to re-signing davis and hoping he isn't any worse after a year off. it's underwhelming as has been the rest of this offseason, but it's something
Quote
Clowney is visiting
i will take him
we're in position to draft a top WR. I'm not worried about getting one in FA now that the OL has been somewhat addressed.
been thinking about this. we could obviously go for a WR at 10. we still need a starting LT. if the move there is to sign bakhtiari, it means JD learned nothing from his duane brown mistake last year. are we planning on AVT at LT? and hoping we could find a gord in the 3rd round, which is something we've never actually been very good at doing?
Post by: bojanglesman on March 15, 2024, 09:51:51 AM
They aren't putting AVT at LT. Let him be a perennial pro bowl guard. We need a LT and if we get Bak or Tyron, we need a good backup tackle.
I think Douglas could make a trade again instead of a free agent signing at WR. We have plenty of cap space, find a team looking to unload a good expensive WR and send them a later round pick as a salary dump.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on March 15, 2024, 10:24:50 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 15, 2024, 10:30:09 AM
we're in position to draft a top WR. I'm not worried about getting one in FA now that the OL has been somewhat addressed.
Today we are not. IF and it’s a big if, we sign Tyron Smith, then you can start making this case. But it also doesn’t matter since it seems quite possible WRs go 4-5-6 anyways. We would have to move up, and given the cost, I’d rather go up to 4 than to 6 and just get MHJ.
Post by: MBGreen on March 15, 2024, 10:41:13 AM
Today we are not. IF and it’s a big if, we sign Tyron Smith, then you can start making this case. But it also doesn’t matter since it seems quite possible WRs go 4-5-6 anyways. We would have to move up, and given the cost, I’d rather go up to 4 than to 6 and just get MHJ.
the WR class is still deep despite the top 3 WRs...
Keon Coleman
the 2 Xaviers (Legette/Worthy)
Adonai Mitchell
Ladd McConkey
Malachi Corley
Troy Franklin
I'm not worried.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 15, 2024, 11:12:25 AM
#H2P
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2024, 11:13:12 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 15, 2024, 12:08:44 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 15, 2024, 12:16:35 PM
Assuming we sign Bakhtiari, who would we be satisfied with as his backup once he goes down?
the firing torch and pitchfork will be...activated.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2024, 12:17:40 PM
Assuming we sign Bakhtiari, who would we be satisfied with as his backup once he goes down?
If we sign him to start, we are in serious trouble
it would show that Douglas learned nothing from the Duane Brown debacle
Post by: bojanglesman on March 15, 2024, 12:57:20 PM
If we sign him to start, we are in serious troubleThen what free agent LT is a starter here? Otherwise, why are we discussing WR at 10?
it would show that Douglas learned nothing from the Duane Brown debacle
Post by: Johnny English on March 15, 2024, 12:59:25 PM
Then what free agent LT is a starter here?
Duane Brown
Post by: MBGreen on March 15, 2024, 12:59:41 PM
Otherwise, why are we discussing WR at 10?
Because our GM is BPA
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2024, 01:42:25 PM
Then what free agent LT is a starter here?
I think AVT might be our left tackle
We're clearly interested in the tackle class - we've already spent time with Taliese Fuaga and Jordan Morgan
Post by: Coach K on March 15, 2024, 08:50:52 PM
It may have been to counterbalance some of his own mistakes but he played this perfectly so far
2 starters 1 vg 1 above avg for the annual price of what guys like Jonah Williams are getting paid more for and guys like Hunt 2x+
And a top 10 (when healthy) LT. Perfect stop gap allowing us to maneuver in a few ways next month.
Rounded out DT depth .
We're an Ashtyn Davis re sign away from being optimal from a resource allocation perspective
Tyron signing likely eliminates a Williams or Boyd move at WR but just makes WR more likely by rd 3 at the latest .
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2024, 08:52:26 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 15, 2024, 08:56:35 PM
Nah, he hasn’t played this perfectly at allThey have a massively upgraded OL and didn't overpay too much for it. If they stay healthy, they could have a top 10 line. And they haven't even gotten to the draft yet
Post by: Coach K on March 15, 2024, 09:07:45 PM
Nah, he hasn’t played this perfectly at allI'd say WR is the big hole
I do like what's he's done with the OL
And without blowing up the cap DT depth was rounded out well
Perfect is an overstatement .
However I wouldn't want to pay Ronert Hunt or most of the other OL what they're getting paid
That's just me
So OL is good for now and we now have flexibility to still take an OT at 10 or trade down without making huge holes potentially by getting a Guyton or Jordan in a trade down and recouping a 2nd or additional 3rd and 5th at worst
To me this FA class as a whole was kinda underwhelming .
I hope we're still working on improving the WR room pre draft but we will see.
Sucks the chargers got rid of both WRs now because I don't think Odunze will be there at 10 now
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2024, 09:14:25 PM
They have a massively upgraded OL and didn't overpay too much for it. If they stay healthy, they could have a top 10 line. And they haven't even gotten to the draft yet
We lost our best pass rusher.
We haven’t upgrade the skill positions at all.
It hasn’t been played perfectly.
Post by: Coach K on March 15, 2024, 09:20:46 PM
We lost our best pass rusher.Ahhh yes I think I blacked out about Huff
We haven’t upgrade the skill positions at all.
It hasn’t been played perfectly.
I love WMD as a prospect but hated the use of the pick given the roster construction and assumed Huff would've cost maybe 9 to 11 mil per if we extended him earlier
But yeah again like I said most of it is cleaning up his own mess
Given the players that were available what they've gotten paid and what we've gotten for what we're paying
I'm satisfied overall
He clearly fucks up but a prime example is nobody currently on this roster from his first draft but also having the 2022 draft .
It's the excrement that has him on tbe hot seat because ultimately we haven't drafted well consistently over the course of time and Zach wilson might be the nail in his own coffin regardless
Either way we repositioned ourselves effectively to gear up for April.
Especially if we can still get a WR in the building before then
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 15, 2024, 09:28:31 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 15, 2024, 09:34:12 PM
This is not the final WR group obviously. Right now doesn't matter, who is here week 1 does. So far so good.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 15, 2024, 09:49:11 PM
He replaced an OLine that was frequently injured, marred by penalties, and relying on veterans at the ends of their careers with free agents who have recently been injured, marred by penalties, and are nearing the ends of their careers. Smith, Simpson, and Moses are currently here on one year deals. We don't have a rebuilt OLine, we have band-aids.
EDIT: I also forgot that AVT is in the final year of his contract and the team has yet to exercise his 5th year option. They have until May 2 to decide that or that's the 4th spot on the OLine that we'll have to fill next season.
As for the rest of team:
-Our skill positions are still a massive question mark outside of our starting RB and WR1
-We have the most TE2 guy as our starter
-Our EDGE coprs has been severely downgraded-our starting safeties include a guy who missed the entirety of last season due to injury
-For some reason we went on a larger shopping spree for interior DLine
I'm willing to bet this mother fucker takes an EDGE in the first round.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 15, 2024, 10:08:22 PM
Douglas has done a good job here. People were bitching that he didn't come out guns a blazin' and sign all the gords in the first hour of free agency. I would have liked to have kept Huff, but it was obvious he was leaving. The mistake was not doing it last year, but I won't give a excrement if WMD plays well. We have a solid OL now. Injuries will always be a concern with the Jets because the Jets will Jet. OG Simpson is the biggest question mark.I never understand when people freak out in the first few hours of free agency. Happens every single year.
This is not the final WR group obviously. Right now doesn't matter, who is here week 1 does. So far so good.
The only thing worth freaking out about was the mismanagement of Huff
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2024, 11:03:14 PM
I never understand when people freak out in the first few hours of free agency. Happens every single year.
The only thing worth freaking out about was the mismanagement of Huff
We are worse at safety.
Potentially worse at DT. Our DL is losing 16 sacks with Huff and Jefferson moving on.
We have absolutely nothing at wideout behind Garrett Wilson.
We have zero depth at RB.
Yeah, we have three new starters on the OL. Two of them are old vets that are here for one year. This roster is far from complete.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2024, 11:52:04 PM
I expected 1 starter at OT through FA and 1 through the draft
This really free us up to take a WR or Rock Bowers if they’re the BPA
Much less concern about Fuaga or Fautanu being the pick now that we have starters at LT/RT
Now Bahktiari becomes a legitimate option at backup/swing tackle instead of the emergency button starter
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2024, 11:53:11 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 15, 2024, 11:55:02 PM
Now Bahktiari becomes a legitimate option at backup/swing tackle instead of the emergency button starter
High risk, low value.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 16, 2024, 12:03:11 AM
High risk, low value.
His upside is a pro bowl OT
Risk to stay healthy but also makes sense taking a swing since Tyron also is a health risk
We already have a mid, healthy young guy (Warren)
Our swing tackle is usually a massive POS
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2024, 12:25:04 AM
His upside is a pro bowl OT
Risk to stay healthy but also makes sense taking a swing since Tyron also is a health risk
We already have a mid, healthy young guy (Warren)
Our swing tackle is usually a massive POS
Having our LT’s backup being a bigger injury risk than our starter is a terrible idea.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 16, 2024, 12:30:31 AM
Having our LT’s backup being a bigger injury risk than our starter is a terrible idea.
Having 2 Carter Warrens doesn’t move the needle
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 16, 2024, 12:32:44 AM
Tyron probably decreases the chances of him coming here, just saying this is the first time I’ve actually felt comfortable with it
Post by: Jumbo on March 16, 2024, 12:52:55 AM
We are worse at safety.
Potentially worse at DT. Our DL is losing 16 sacks with Huff and Jefferson moving on.
We have absolutely nothing at wideout behind Garrett Wilson.
We have zero depth at RB.
Yeah, we have three new starters on the OL. Two of them are old vets that are here for one year. This roster is far from complete.
Safeties are signing for cheap, RB depth is easy as hell to get as well. If those are two of the four primary reasons to bitch then we've done a decent job and can bring guys in at those spots.
WR is a problem but I think realistically we only need to sign one and should draft one.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2024, 01:00:45 AM
Having 2 Carter Warrens doesn’t move the needle
Neither does an OT3 destined for IR.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2024, 02:07:06 AM
Safeties are signing for cheap, RB depth is easy as hell to get as well. If those are two of the four primary reasons to bitch then we've done a decent job and can bring guys in at those spots.This. Nobody is saying that we're done making moves this offseason. But the #1 key over everything was to fix the offensive line. On paper, we have done that as well as you could reasonably hope for at this point in the offseason. Everything else is secondary. I'm not worried at all about finding an RB2, and there are guys out there who can be the third safety.
WR is a problem but I think realistically we only need to sign one and should draft one.
And now that the #10 pick doesn't HAVE to be an offensive tackle, that opens up a lot more options (mostly WR/TE/trade down). This looks like an awesome WR class, so the draft could be a way to make that work, along with a cheap veteran to compete with Lazard. You could also go Bowers and take a WR later, or you could trade down and grab a later WR or even two of them. Plenty of options.
The problem with Bakhtiari is I don't think he will want to take a job where he is almost certainly the backup. If he's willing to be the backup swing tackle, that's a great fit. I just don't see him wanting to do that.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on March 16, 2024, 04:23:58 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2024, 08:25:13 AM
Safeties are signing for cheap, RB depth is easy as hell to get as well. If those are two of the four primary reasons to bitch then we've done a decent job and can bring guys in at those spots.
WR is a problem but I think realistically we only need to sign one and should draft one.
We haven’t signed a cheap safety.
We have failed to put solid depth behind Breece Hall. Douglas has spent multiple draft picks and big money in FA on RBs. It’s still a big need right now.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2024, 09:03:15 AM
Quote
We haven’t signed a cheap safety.
We have failed to put solid depth behind Breece Hall. Douglas has spent multiple draft picks and big money in FA on RBs. It’s still a big need right now.
I'm just counting Chuck Clark as Whitehead. Once we re-sign Ashtyn, we are back to same as last year.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2024, 09:05:32 AM
I'm just counting Chuck Clark as Whitehead. Once we re-sign Ashtyn, we are back to same as last year.In b4 the Justin Simmons prove it deal
Post by: insanity on March 16, 2024, 11:01:43 AM
Safeties are signing for cheap, RB depth is easy as hell to get as well. If those are two of the four primary reasons to bitch then we've done a decent job and can bring guys in at those spots.
WR is a problem but I think realistically we only need to sign one and should draft one.
Agreed. Safeties, rbs and dts come at the cheap. We can sign those after the draft and be fine, especially dt.
We do need more talent at wr but I feel like that's coming this week.
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2024, 11:41:09 AM
It would be 1 thing if we had to trade picks for him or sign him to a lucrative deal- I’m imagining if he does sign here it isn’t for much
Tyron probably decreases the chances of him coming here, just saying this is the first time I’ve actually felt comfortable with it
I doubt Bakhtiari wants to be anywhere near turf after what he's been through with his injuries. If he plays again I suspect his primary criterion will be where he has the lowest risk of needing to go back under the knife.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2024, 11:56:32 AM
I doubt Bakhtiari wants to be anywhere near turf after what he's been through with his injuries. If he plays again I suspect his primary criterion will be where he has the lowest risk of needing to go back under the knife.
www.aaronwhispers.com
Post by: Badger on March 16, 2024, 07:43:29 PM
Did I go 0/3 on name spelling I’m not checking itYou went 3/5
Post by: Badger on March 16, 2024, 07:44:07 PM
Should we change this thread’s title to “The Joe Douglas average sized dick garage?Joe Douglas Blue Chew Bungalow
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 16, 2024, 10:09:02 PM
Should we change this thread’s title to “The Joe Douglas average sized dick garage? 🤪
Stop cockwatching
Post by: bojanglesman on March 17, 2024, 07:50:21 AM
Stop cockwatching"Official Joe Douglas Cockwatch"
Post by: MBGreen on March 17, 2024, 08:26:55 AM
Stop cockwatchingWe're all certified cocksmiths here
Post by: Badger on March 17, 2024, 10:01:30 AM
We're all certified cocksmiths hereDongineers
Post by: insanity on March 18, 2024, 11:53:04 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 18, 2024, 04:19:13 PM
Let's give credit where credit is due. Joe got a 2nd round pick for darnold while these gms are getting chicken excrement
I think Darnold is WHY these guys are getting chicken excrement for failed QBs
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2024, 04:20:40 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 18, 2024, 04:34:55 PM
Joe Douglas ruined the QB trade market like he ruined this team!
I meant more of a “Darnold was terrible. These guys aren’t actually salvageable reclamation projects, so why pay real value for them?” Kinda way.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 18, 2024, 05:40:11 PM
I meant more of a “Darnold was terrible. These guys aren’t actually salvageable reclamation projects, so why pay real value for them?” Kinda way.Or even if they are salvageable, they only have one year under contract, so they aren't really helping us out all that much anyway.
Either way, the Darnold trade return looks a lot better in retrospect. That said, there was more reason to believe in Darnold than there is in Wilson. Fields vs Darnold is debatable, though Fields has probably shown more.
Post by: MBGreen on March 20, 2024, 09:13:48 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 25, 2024, 11:11:37 AM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
Joe Douglas on taking a quarterback at No. 10: “We’ve got a lot of flexibility. If there’s a player that can help the Jets, we have the flexibility to do that.”
Said they’re not only thinking about 2024. #Jets
Smokescreen SZN.....activated
Post by: MBGreen on March 25, 2024, 11:35:42 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
Notes from Joe Douglas, who just met with reporters:
* Has had trade talks with teams on Zach Wilson. Any offers? “I’d say there are conversations, but nothing is close to getting done.” Sidestepped a question on whether he envisions a scenario where they could keep Wilson
* Didn’t rule out a QB at 10 (then again, he didn’t rule out any positions)
* “Outstanding” visit with Clowney. No news for now.
* Mike Williams (knee) won’t be ready for the start of camp
* Likes to new-look OL
* Re: Bryce Huff… noted how they were able to sign Quinnen Williams before his walk year. Almost sounded like he wishes they had done the same with Huff.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 25, 2024, 01:30:19 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2024, 01:33:19 PM
He wishes "they" had signed Huff before his walk year? Uh, Joe, who is in charge of doing that? Might want to fire the guy.
He didn't say that. Cimini is insinuating that.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 25, 2024, 01:39:38 PM
He didn't say that. Cimini is insinuating that.
Ah, okay. Dick being Dick.
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 05:00:57 PM
Hit a few homeruns in the upcoming draft, and this will become the Boner Garage again.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 29, 2024, 05:05:57 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 05:10:25 PM
I was told we should be shitting all over him for not signing all the free agents on day one.
still should.
procrastination is not a good look.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 29, 2024, 05:38:22 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 29, 2024, 05:40:36 PM
still should.
procrastination is not a good look.
Patience is not procrastination.
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 05:55:22 PM
Patience is not procrastination.It is when patience has run out...which it has
Post by: Libero_2 on March 29, 2024, 05:57:12 PM
It is when patience has run out...which it has
Not to defense the guy… but your patience running out is not the same as Douglas’ patience running out.
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 06:12:48 PM
Not to defense the guy… but your patience running out is not the same as Douglas’ patience running out.I'm dangerous when my patience has run out
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 29, 2024, 06:13:44 PM
heel turn complete.This was 17 days ago.
Fire Douglas. I've seen enough.
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 06:22:12 PM
This was 17 days ago.See....im dangerous, son.
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 06:32:49 PM
Win or freaking light yourself on fire.
This is the way.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 29, 2024, 06:38:38 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 29, 2024, 06:38:49 PM
- 10th pick is obviously extremely valuable. the plan isn't to pick #10 every year. we shouldn't be picking 10 next year, and if we do it's because something douglas did (like not adequately protecting rodgers) went horribly wrong, and this entire thing is over.
- we saw what happened with our OL last year. our gamble at LT with brown (which is something JD could have/should have been fired for) literally ended our entire season 4 plays in. we need a serious plan B given our luck with OL injuries.
- we are literally taking a very similar gamble again this year assuming that moses, coming off of pectoral surgery, will magically be healthy enough and 100% match fit to start for us game 1. again, we need a serious plan B.
- warren carter or max mitchell are not serious plan Bs for a serious team. the majority of us don't even realize that his name is carter warren and not warren carter.
- after next year, we need 2 OTs, and we won't have the 10th pick to help.
- one if not both of our OTs WILL miss time this year. we need a serious plan B.
the season rides on ensuring we have a good OL to keep rodgers upright. rodgers will make our weapons work if he stays healthy. bowers does nothing to add to QB protection for us right now; we literally already have a great blocking TE in ruckert for that. we do not need to throw away the 10th pick for that. if garrett wilson goes down, i don't think bowers is enough to carry the load for our passing offense, assuming rodgers isn't dead because we don't have a serious plan B at OT.
it has to be the top OT and, if not, a game changing WR that will take pressure off of the OL. i can't take the bowers talk anymore.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 29, 2024, 06:43:53 PM
Plus, Bakhtiari is still out there.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 29, 2024, 06:44:02 PM
And that said, IDGAF, this team (if we can stay relatively healthy) is a lot better than it was even going into last season.
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 06:47:07 PM
Have to give credit to Douglas. He could have easily gone on a Maccagnan-esque spending spree the moment free agency started. Instead, he let the market come to him.Well...if you really want to be accurate, he took some fliers on injured players (Mike Williams, chuck clark) and players with injury histories (Tyron Smith, Kinlaw, tyrod taylor).
They certainly could pay off...but they're not surefire wins yet.
The Reddick trade and bringing back legatron/Morstead are his crown jewel moves so far that don't have any question marks.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 29, 2024, 06:47:21 PM
They probably tried halfheartedly to resign Huff and hoped they could have Clowney as a fallback. When Clowney went elsewhere, the Jets made this move.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 29, 2024, 06:50:50 PM
-Greg Zeurlein
-Thomas Morstead
-Josh Simpson
-Tyrod Taylor
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 06:51:38 PM
I was told we should be shitting all over him for not signing all the free agents on day one.Also...Douglas deserved the scrutiny after he sat on his thumb at the trade deadline last fall.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 29, 2024, 07:02:19 PM
Also...Douglas deserved the scrutiny after he sat on his thumb at the trade deadline last fall.
What move(s) should he have made at the deadline?
Post by: Badger on March 29, 2024, 07:03:44 PM
I'm dangerous when my patience has run out"You wouldn't like me when I'm hangry."
Post by: Badger on March 29, 2024, 07:07:57 PM
What move(s) should he have made at the deadline?Traded Zach for Mahomes straight up
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 29, 2024, 07:10:00 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 29, 2024, 07:14:11 PM
What moves could Douglas have made at the start of free agency that would have been better than the ones since?Should have made the moves faster.
Post by: Coach K on March 29, 2024, 07:22:37 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 29, 2024, 08:29:21 PM
Why are we sure Carter Warren can't be a serious Plan B? He's a 2nd-year 4th-round pick. At some point, those guys are supposed to contribute. I'm not saying he can or can't. But you would hope that not all our 4th-round picks would be wastes.
Plus, Bakhtiari is still out there.
I agree with the sentiment some of these developmental OL have to become players in the league. It seems Mitchell won’t be, and Warren was god awful this year, so expectations should be low.
But I’m in favor of loading up on mid round OL this year. Get me a 3rd round tackle a 4th round interior player and I wouldn’t hate a 3rd OL in the fourth round
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 09:01:30 PM
What moves could Douglas have made at the start of free agency that would have been better than the ones since?All of em
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 09:03:01 PM
Should have made the moves faster.And better
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 29, 2024, 09:06:36 PM
The last 2 months of last season were brutal, but we're through that now. It's exciting to be back into offseason hype mode. I'm willing to forget most of what happened last year.
Hell, our roster is good enough where I think we should be a playoff team even if Rodgers gets hurt.
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 09:08:32 PM
Seriously though, I've mostly been happy with this offseason. We are going into next year with a better overall roster, and we still have the draft, where we will get an impact player at 10 to help us out even more.Agreed...Douglas recovered nicely after a slow start to FA. But like I said in an earlier post, we took fliers on guys overcoming injuries. I hope it works out in our favor.
The last 2 months of last season were brutal, but we're through that now. It's exciting to be back into offseason hype mode. I'm willing to forget most of what happened last year.
Hell, our roster is good enough where I think we should be a playoff team even if Rodgers gets hurt.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 29, 2024, 09:10:08 PM
Guy's invested more in the QB and OL than anything else since he's been here. And he's been a complete and utter failure on both.
Just because he's made a few mediocre moves and had one spectacular draft, doesn't mean the dudes not trash
Odds are still very good he's gone long before this time next year
Post by: MBGreen on March 29, 2024, 09:19:28 PM
Why are you guys pretending dudes not getting fired in a few months?If the Jets lose, he gets fired.
Guy's invested more in the QB and OL than anything else since he's been here. And he's been a complete and utter failure on both.
Just because he's made a few mediocre moves and had one spectacular draft, doesn't mean the dudes not trash
Odds are still very good he's gone long before this time next year
The point of the discussion is that he's made some shrewd moves that not only fill holes and are cost effective, but they give him tremendous flexibility at the draft.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 29, 2024, 09:29:52 PM
If the Jets lose, he gets fired.This.
If the Jets lose, he gets fired. And I think this roster is good enough to have a great season. Jets won 7 games each of the last 2 seasons despite having basically the worst offense in the NFL. On paper, this offense actually looks good this year. I'm not convinced it will be good, but I also don't think it will be bad. If the offense is OK, then this should be a playoff team. And if the offense is actually good, there is no reason they can't be a Super Bowl contender.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 29, 2024, 10:07:07 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 29, 2024, 10:08:05 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 29, 2024, 10:14:06 PM
If he can trade back in the draft, I’m back in
He’s gon’ pull out then put it back in and you’re gonna be begging for more picks
Post by: Libero_2 on March 29, 2024, 10:40:56 PM
If he can trade back in the draft, I’m back in
How? Who is coming up and why? Going down is almost always the best move. But I can’t see why a team would be coming up.
In my opinion, down to 17 - 20 is the best move, going up for Nabers/MHJ is the next best and most exciting move. Most likely we sit at ten and pick… somebody
Post by: bojanglesman on March 30, 2024, 06:36:51 AM
Why are you guys pretending dudes not getting fired in a few months?
Guy's invested more in the QB and OL than anything else since he's been here. And he's been a complete and utter failure on both.
Just because he's made a few mediocre moves and had one spectacular draft, doesn't mean the dudes not trash
Odds are still very good he's gone long before this time next year
This is a playoff team except if injuries happen in key positions. That is a big if. If this team stays relatively healthy, especially Rodgers, I think we make the playoffs.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 30, 2024, 08:38:04 AM
If he can trade back in the draft, I’m back in
I am too, but we say this every year.
Just for the sake of argument, trying to recoup a 2nd rounder means trading back with Pittsburgh to 20 at the very least. If you're a Mims fan like Cane, he could still be on the board and that might be the dream scenario.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 30, 2024, 09:11:02 AM
Post by: Badger on March 30, 2024, 10:03:43 AM
I am too, but we say this every year.
Not to mention the last time we traded down most Jets fans were ready to end it all (2005).
Post by: bojanglesman on March 30, 2024, 10:38:12 AM
Not to mention the last time we traded down most Jets fans were ready to end it all (2005).
I'm sure we'll stay at 10 and pick someone boring, which is fine.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 30, 2024, 06:23:28 PM
Not to mention the last time we traded down most Jets fans were ready to end it all (2005).
Sounds like a win-win so long as our first pick isn't a freaking kicker and we don't trade for the softest TE on the planet.
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 31, 2024, 08:36:48 AM
Why are we sure Carter Warren can't be a serious Plan B? He's a 2nd-year 4th-round pick. At some point, those guys are supposed to contribute. I'm not saying he can or can't. But you would hope that not all our 4th-round picks would be wastes.
Plus, Bakhtiari is still out there.
i should have clarified what i meant by 'serious plan b'. i didn't mean the conventional meaning of plan b. i essentially mean a 'plan 1b'.
we have to assume that:
- tyron smith will miss games given his track record
- morgan moses may either miss games or may need time to get fully match fit post surgery. you can't automatically assume he'll play to his usual level after any injury like this. it may even make him worse.
in the above situation, i'd like to have someobody that we would actually be comfortable with starting or playing over either tackle, or somebody we would be comfortable with had we not acquired smith or moses. i'm talking about guys like alt, fashanu, fuaga. they of course all need development, but can all step in right now and play if needed. guys we would be comfortable with throwing out there game 1.
we need two tackles after next year. in a year, do i hope that warren continues to develop/improve and make one of those tackle spots his own? of course i do. however, as it stands right now, if you told me that JD's plan was to go into the season with carter as one of our starting OTs, i would feel he was making a mockery of the position, and a mockery of our actual goals and prospects this season. that's what i meant by a serious plan b.
we can hope these 4th round picks develop all we want. it doesn't actually mean anything. mitchell had a promising first season and was horrible last year. there are reasons why some of these tackle prospects get drafted as early as they do.
our 'starting LT' ruined rodgers on play 4 and was essentially out for the year after that game. our other 'starting tackle' was/is horrible, and is still unsigned. we were so skint as far as depth and protection that we had to move our star guard to tackle, only to lose him to a season ending achilles injury early on, and now we don't even know if he'll come back the same after such a serious injury. we can't have this happen again.
it's absolutely damning that, despite the state of that freaking OL, JD still had michael mayer ahead of a tackle prospect like broderick jones, and would have drafted mayer over jones according to his board. mayer would have done nothing for us last year. jones got inserted midseason and played games at LT, and out of position at RT. he did well against the run, and needs to improve against the pass, but he had some moments for the steelers, and helped them get to the playoffs down the stretch. we could have used a guy like that last year.
douglas cannot freak around with this. he cannot be as careless as he has been in assuming that our 'starting 5' will all magically be healthy all season and play great, despite our track record and their own respective track records. we saw what happened last year. our season was over 5 minutes into the first quarter. if he drafts a guy like browers over a good tackle prospect if available, it will mean he learned absolutely nothing.
give me a guy who i can start day 1 as my backup depth and not think JD is taking this all as an absolute joke. that is what i mean by a serious plan b.
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 31, 2024, 08:41:49 AM
what the freak man. what the freak is that excrement. what kind of a freaking joke is that. douglas should have been fired. and the freaking cut blocks that we apparently hadn't even practiced or incorporated before that drive. keith carter and hackett should have been fired. we cannot freak around like this.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 31, 2024, 08:48:44 AM
i know this is old news but i still cannot believe the plan going into last year was to have a 38 year old OL who already played derriere the year before, coming off a major shoulder surgery without any preseason whatsoever and who was cleared for physical contact literally days before game 1, start at left tackle and protect our geriatric 'franchise' QB's blind side.
what the freak man. what the freak is that excrement. what kind of a freaking joke is that. douglas should have been fired. and the freaking cut blocks that we apparently hadn't even practiced or incorporated before that drive. keith carter and hackett should have been fired. we cannot freak around like this.
Considering he played pretty well with it torn, I totally understand thinking he might be better after surgery. Guy toughs it out, plays admirably, gets it fixed and gets worse? Who does that happen to? Don't answer that.
Post by: Badger on March 31, 2024, 10:28:43 AM
i know this is old news but i still cannot believe the plan going into last year was to have a 38 year old OL who already played derriere the year before,
Duane Brown was solid in 2022, not derriere.
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 31, 2024, 11:32:42 AM
Duane Brown was solid in 2022, not derriere.
i admit i was being overly critical of him because of my dismay with the decision to play him last year. he still had no business being plugged into the LT position game 1 given the circumstances. we were asking for trouble.
Post by: Coach K on March 31, 2024, 01:55:24 PM
Morgan Moses is 33 coming off a torn pec
If we take an OT at 10 they're starting at least 3 to 6 games imo which is worth grooming your future starter instead of having a rookie in 2025 be asked to protect an even older Rodgers
Ideally I want a trade down but that's an easy copout at this point as it's objectively smart given the depth of OL and WR this yr
I'd prefer a top3 WR at 10 if any fall
I'd just as easily be fine with Olu or Fuaga at 10
Fautanu Guyton Morgan Mims plenty of guys who may be available via trade down but thats a given
Either way we're in a good position and unless it's some insane value pick it better be all OL and WR lol
Post by: bojanglesman on March 31, 2024, 02:30:05 PM
Tyron Smith plays 13 games hest case scenario
Morgan Moses is 33 coming off a torn pec
If we take an OT at 10 they're starting at least 3 to 6 games imo which is worth grooming your future starter instead of having a rookie in 2025 be asked to protect an even older Rodgers
Ideally I want a trade down but that's an easy copout at this point as it's objectively smart given the depth of OL and WR this yr
I'd prefer a top3 WR at 10 if any fall
I'd just as easily be fine with Olu or Fuaga at 10
Fautanu Guyton Morgan Mims plenty of guys who may be available via trade down but thats a given
Either way we're in a good position and unless it's some insane value pick it better be all OL and WR lol
Tough part is not knowing which tackle will go down, if not both. I'm not sure how many of the guys you'd take at 10 could play both tackle spots. I'm also interested to see how we can fill in the OL backup spots in free agency. Still some average OL on the market, maybe waiting for a starting spot that won't get one.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 31, 2024, 02:31:23 PM
We don't need a starting OT in 2024. We need insurance. We can get insurance as a free agent or in the 3rd round. Draft someone in round 3. Hopefully we can find a starting OT in 2025 with that player or Warren.
Post by: MBGreen on March 31, 2024, 02:41:12 PM
I want a wide receiver. It's a bigger immediate need. It's also a long-term need. And if any of the top 3 fall to 10, that's the best player on the board.I think if Joe Alt and Odunze both fell to us at 10...im leaning Alt.
We don't need a starting OT in 2024. We need insurance. We can get insurance as a free agent or in the 3rd round. Draft someone in round 3. Hopefully we can find a starting OT in 2025 with that player or Warren.
This won't happen...but that's how I'd go if it did.
Post by: reuben on March 31, 2024, 02:58:20 PM
We don't need a starting OT in 2024. We need insurance. We can get insurance as a free agent or in the 3rd round. Draft someone in round 3. Hopefully we can find a starting OT in 2025 with that player or Warren.
Drown this post in fluid like the rat from The Abyss.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 31, 2024, 03:05:39 PM
I'd say draft Fuaga and if Tyron gets hurt, move Moses to LT and Fuaga to RT.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 31, 2024, 03:10:20 PM
I think if Joe Alt and Odunze both fell to us at 10...im leaning Alt.Disagree. I think Odunze is a better WR prospect than Alt is an OT prospect. And the need is greater.
This won't happen...but that's how I'd go if it did.
If they take an OL, I would prefer it come after a trade down. If the top 3 WR are gone, I think the optimal solution is to trade down for a WR or OL.
We clearly need to address OT, but I don't think it has to be at 10. Drafting one at 10 is overkill for 2024, but obviously we need one in 2025, so I wouldn't be opposed to it.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 31, 2024, 03:48:10 PM
We must have a solid swing tackle. Doesn't have to be as good as the starters, but can't be bad. Rodgers can cover up mediocre play, but bad play gets him injured.
I'd say draft Fuaga and if Tyron gets hurt, move Moses to LT and Fuaga to RT.
The more I watch, the more I’m thinking Fautanu is better than every tackle except for Alt
Post by: MBGreen on April 19, 2024, 09:48:16 AM
Quote
Antwan V. Staley
@antwanstaley
Takeaways from Jets GM Joe Douglas' press conference:
- Sounds like they're open to selecting Georgia TE Brock Bowers. Douglas said the right "tight end can be a real weapon."
- Douglas didn't sound too convincing they would pick up Alijah Vera-Tucker's fifth-year option.
-Douglas called Haason Reddick an "electric presence."
According to Douglas, Zach Wilson is welcome to participate in the offseason program. He won't speculate on whether Wilson will be on the team in July.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 20, 2024, 06:54:51 AM
Of course JD likely won't be here next year so what's he care anyway
Post by: MBGreen on April 20, 2024, 07:21:26 AM
I think the Jets gotta let it ride and pick up AVTs optionIn b4 the 3 yr extension signed by JD
Of course JD likely won't be here next year so what's he care anyway
Post by: Heismanberg on April 20, 2024, 08:34:07 AM
Put the word out. We’re back up, boys.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 20, 2024, 08:34:47 AM
Doesn’t meant we won’t re-sign him though.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 20, 2024, 09:55:36 AM
If he plays well and doesn't get injured this year, I feel like that franchise tag value is too high to even use as a threat. He would be the almost the highest paid OL in the league at that number and I think he knows we wouldn't pay him that. So then you'd have to rely on him re-signing here because it's the best offer.
If he gets hurt again and misses significant time, you can just let him go and put $15 million towards either a new guard or something else if we drafted one this year.
Really it's the risk of paying him $15 million after getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row vs letting him walk after a full season of playing at an elite level. I could see either argument honestly. Maybe it depends on whether Douglas wants to pay ANY guard a top 5 salary.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 20, 2024, 10:31:14 AM
Guarantee him $10 million for 2025 if he’s on the roster the first day of the league year in 2025, with incentives to raise it up to say $17.5 million for playing 17 games in 2024, earning pro bowl and all pro nods, and perhaps a writing into the contract that no franchise tag is allowed following the 2025 season.
Chances are we would let him walk at that point with Rodgers likely done, us needing to start forking over big money in the new deals to Sauce, GW JJ and Breece, let alone anyone else we need to sign at that point.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 20, 2024, 10:41:06 AM
I think the solution here is to try something similar to what the Packers did with Jordan Love.
Guarantee him $10 million for 2025 if he’s on the roster the first day of the league year in 2025, with incentives to raise it up to say $17.5 million for playing 17 games in 2024, earning pro bowl and all pro nods, and perhaps a writing into the contract that no franchise tag is allowed following the 2025 season.
Chances are we would let him walk at that point with Rodgers likely done, us needing to start forking over big money in the new deals to Sauce, GW JJ and Breece, let alone anyone else we need to sign at that point.
As much as I like AVT and hope we can keep him, as a gord I don't think he's worth paying a ton of money unless he is elite. Like best in the league elite. I'll say the same thing about Breece Hall in a year or 2. Sure people will bitch about the Jets never keeping their own, but I think it really depends on the position they play and the ability to replace them. Some positions are easier to replace with cheaper players than others. Yeah it's great to have an elite player at any position, but there's a bigger gap in pay between an elite and a good guard than it's effect on the offensive line play as a whole.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 20, 2024, 10:48:59 AM
As much as I like AVT and hope we can keep him, as a gord I don't think he's worth paying a ton of money unless he is elite. Like best in the league elite. I'll say the same thing about Breece Hall in a year or 2. Sure people will bitch about the Jets never keeping their own, but I think it really depends on the position they play and the ability to replace them. Some positions are easier to replace with cheaper players than others. Yeah it's great to have an elite player at any position, but there's a bigger gap in pay between an elite and a good guard than it's effect on the offensive line play as a whole.
Which is why I think paying him 10 million to close out the Rodgers window is. It a bad play. Especially if we lock in the out of cutting him before the league year starts. If his play doesn’t warrant the money, he’s gone. If he does we have a strong stable piece we are excited to have on the line to make one last push next season. Then he leaves in 26 when it’s time to rebuild the QB room anyways
Post by: bojanglesman on April 20, 2024, 10:54:56 AM
Which is why I think paying him 10 million to close out the Rodgers window is. It a bad play. Especially if we lock in the out of cutting him before the league year starts. If his play doesn’t warrant the money, he’s gone. If he does we have a strong stable piece we are excited to have on the line to make one last push next season. Then he leaves in 26 when it’s time to rebuild the QB room anyways
I don't see any reason why AVT would want to sign that deal. He has to do a lot just to get a couple of million more. What safety does that deal provide him beyond what he would already have without signing it? What if he gets hurt early and misses the majority of the year but is healthy before the league year starts? We'd have to pay him a ton after getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row
Post by: Libero_2 on April 20, 2024, 11:02:39 AM
I don't see any reason why AVT would want to sign that deal. He has to do a lot just to get a couple of million more. What safety does that deal provide him beyond what he would already have without signing it? What if he gets hurt early and misses the majority of the year but is healthy before the league year starts? We'd have to pay him a ton after getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row
He doesn’t have to sign it. But if he takes it, he has another year on his deal for more money than he’s ever earned in his life in one year. If he plays well, he gets incentives for even more.
If he doesn’t take the deal and we have already declined the 5th year option, he runs the risk of getting hurt again and being a guy who gets $2-$3 million on the market because his injury risks are so severe and well documented.
So he has an option to be on himself and get a double digit millions in the town that drafted him, playing with one of the best QBs of all time to prove he deserves even more. Or he bets on himself to stay healthy and earn even more on the market next year. Recognizing if he doesn’t, he likely takes 2-3 seasons of salaries to get back to the $10 million he turned down.
He has to make a bet on himself either way, just how successful does he think he can be?
Post by: dcm1602 on April 20, 2024, 02:56:03 PM
dcm thinks we’ll suck?
Put the word out. We’re back up, boys.
You think we have to suck for JD to get fired?
This team was playoffs or just and JD got a mulligan because of the injury (which shitty OL was his fault)
Honestly JDs future rides on Rodgers playing at a high level, AND wanting to return (or not retire)
If Rodgers is mediocre next year, and we lose in the wildcard. Why the freak would you extend JD and give him another shot at figure out this QB's situation.
He whiffed on Darnold (keeping him) then majorly whiffed on Zach. If Rodgers isn't in the elite/MVP conversation next year Douglas has to be gone
Post by: MBGreen on April 20, 2024, 02:58:30 PM
You think we have to suck for JD to get fired?
This team was playoffs or just and JD got a mulligan because of the injury (which shitty OL was his fault)
Honestly JDs future rides on Rodgers playing at a high level, AND wanting to return (or not retire)
If Rodgers is mediocre next year, and we lose in the wildcard. Why the freak would you extend JD and give him another shot at figure out this QB's situation.
He whiffed on Darnold (keeping him) then majorly whiffed on Zach. If Rodgers isn't in the elite/MVP conversation next year Douglas has to be gone
whiffed on Darnold? lol
he's a freaking stopgap QB for the Vikings. I guess the Panthers and Niners whiffed on him too.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 20, 2024, 03:12:16 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on April 20, 2024, 03:42:09 PM
whiffed on Darnold? lol
he's a freaking stopgap QB for the Vikings. I guess the Panthers and Niners whiffed on him too.
Getting a 2nd-round pick for Sam Darnold is closer to a home run than a whiff.
You don't get credit for getting a 2nd for Darnold when you drafted Zach Wilson with the 2nd overall pick
This team in every single way would've been better off if he just kept Darnold and did literally anything other than draft Zach Wilson.
And the biggest knock on his "mishandling" of Darnold is it led to this forced Zach Wilson pick, and again to this forced situation with Rodgers (which so far has been pretty shitty)
Regardless, the point is if we go 9-8 or lose a wildcard
Douglas needs to be gone the next day
Post by: MBGreen on April 20, 2024, 03:47:36 PM
You don't get credit for getting a 2nd for Darnold when you drafted Zach Wilson with the 2nd overall pickWhy are you like this?
This team in every single way would've been better off if he just kept Darnold and did literally anything other than draft Zach Wilson.
And the biggest knock on his "mishandling" of Darnold is it led to this forced Zach Wilson pick, and again to this forced situation with Rodgers (which so far has been pretty shitty)
Regardless, the point is if we go 9-8 or lose a wildcard
Douglas needs to be gone the next day
Post by: dcm1602 on April 20, 2024, 05:24:09 PM
Why are you like this?
I'm just consistent
Most of this board has spent most of the last year hating the dude
Post by: MBGreen on April 20, 2024, 05:41:03 PM
I'm just consistentI'm referring to your skewed opinion on Darnold.
Most of this board has spent most of the last year hating the dude
He stinks...
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 20, 2024, 05:49:28 PM
I'm just consistentI think he's an average GM who has done some good things and some bad things. I think he did a bad job last offseason. I like so far what he's done this offseason. We'll see what happens in the draft. We'll see what he does the rest of the offseason.
Most of this board has spent most of the last year hating the dude
On paper, the Jets have one of the best rosters in the NFL. When he took over, they were atrocious. Looking at that alone, he's done a very good job. But while they may look good on paper, he's been here a long time and we haven't been close to the playoffs under his watch.
Obviously this is a huge season for him. You worry about him replacing Rodgers after the Zach Wilson debacle, but that's not a problem for right now.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 20, 2024, 05:58:29 PM
I'm referring to your skewed opinion on Darnold.
He stinks...
At the time my opinion of Darnold was we could build around him. I was wrong
In hindsight keeping Darnold and shopping Zachs pick off to the highest bidder for literally anything would've been the best move for the franchise.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 20, 2024, 06:01:13 PM
I think he's an average GM who has done some good things and some bad things. I think he did a bad job last offseason. I like so far what he's done this offseason. We'll see what happens in the draft. We'll see what he does the rest of the offseason.
On paper, the Jets have one of the best rosters in the NFL. When he took over, they were atrocious. Looking at that alone, he's done a very good job. But while they may look good on paper, he's been here a long time and we haven't been close to the playoffs under his watch.
Obviously this is a huge season for him. You worry about him replacing Rodgers after the Zach Wilson debacle, but that's not a problem for right now.
I'm not talking about right now. We're stuck with JD this season (well most of it)
If Rodgers isn't flat out elite and we don't go deep, Douglas is gone before the SB
Post by: Heismanberg on April 20, 2024, 06:15:18 PM
I'm not talking about right now. We're stuck with JD this season (well most of it)
If Rodgers isn't flat out elite and we don't go deep, Douglas is gone before the SB
Our defense should be good enough for Rodgers to just be OK.
We would’ve been a playoff team last season with average QB play.
Post by: Johnny English on April 20, 2024, 06:21:03 PM
Our defense should be good enough for Rodgers to just be OK.
We would’ve been a playoff team last season with average QB play.
All of this. We had 7 wins with garbage QB play and an OL made of guys who should be stacking shelves and doing oil changes. This year we have the 4th easiest SOS based on last year's standings, if Rodgers plays 17 games we'll make the playoffs.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 20, 2024, 06:24:32 PM
Our defense should be good enough for Rodgers to just be OK.
We would’ve been a playoff team last season with average QB play.
I think the bar has to be higher than a single wildcard win
Plus the AFC is really fricken stacked. So honestly if QB's can stay healthy we could be playing against a crazy stacked team in wildcard weekend.
I'm not saying we're gonna suck, I'm just not convinced anyone will want JD back if this team doesn't have a magical year
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 21, 2024, 01:22:55 PM
I think the bar has to be higher than a single wildcard winI think Saleh gets the axe before Douglas does if we lose in Wild Card round, if any of them go.
Plus the AFC is really fricken stacked. So honestly if QB's can stay healthy we could be playing against a crazy stacked team in wildcard weekend.
I'm not saying we're gonna suck, I'm just not convinced anyone will want JD back if this team doesn't have a magical year
Post by: MBGreen on April 21, 2024, 03:30:36 PM
I think Saleh gets the axe before Douglas does if we lose in Wild Card round, if any of them go.Correct
Post by: Heismanberg on April 21, 2024, 04:14:28 PM
Plus the AFC is really fricken stacked.
We're part of that group.
We took the Chiefs into the deep end and almost beat them. We stole the opener from Buffalo. We manhandled Houston. We also beat one of the best NFC teams without our starting corners.
Our defense is elite. 9 of 11 starters are returning. Reddick is an upgrade over Huff. Clark could be an upgrade over Whitehead. We're loaded.
Quinnen, Sauce, Quincy, Adams, Carter, and Davis all have another year of experience and development.
Our expectations for the defense should be as high as they've ever been.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 21, 2024, 04:27:04 PM
We're part of that group.
We took the Chiefs into the deep end and almost beat them. We stole the opener from Buffalo. We manhandled Houston. We also beat one of the best NFC teams without our starting corners.
Our defense is elite. 9 of 11 starters are returning. Reddick is an upgrade over Huff. Clark could be an upgrade over Whitehead. We're loaded.
Quinnen, Sauce, Quincy, Adams, Carter, and Davis all have another year of experience and development.
Our expectations for the defense should be as high as they've ever been.
If Rodgers stays healthy the Jets are a hard team to beat. He'll even with Tyrod we are better than last year.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 21, 2024, 05:58:01 PM
If Rodgers stays healthy the Jets are a hard team to beat. He'll even with Tyrod we are better than last year.
Which is why I want one more blue chip weapon. Go freaking get that guy and dare opposing defenses to cover us all game while leaving light boxes for Breece Hall and watching as their own QB is eating turf while having no where to throw the ball.
Go freaking get a big time weapon
Post by: bojanglesman on April 21, 2024, 06:01:34 PM
Which is why I want one more blue chip weapon. Go freaking get that guy and dare opposing defenses to cover us all game while leaving light boxes for Breece Hall and watching as their own QB is eating turf while having no where to throw the ball.
Go freaking get a big time weapon
We already have Lazard.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 27, 2024, 10:19:28 AM
Going into the year two 33 year old bookends coming off of major injuries (I don't think I've ever heard of anyone playing through a torn pec before) was always a bad strategy but having Fashanu goes a long way towards offsetting that AND building for the future.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 27, 2024, 10:32:32 AM
Fashanu might be my favorite first round pick for Douglas. We're definitely not getting a full season out of Smith, and we might not get one out of Moses.Garrett Wilson is #1 for me. Had to take a WR there, and Wilson was a stud. And he's playing well.
Going into the year two 33 year old bookends coming off of major injuries (I don't think I've ever heard of anyone playing through a torn pec before) was always a bad strategy but having Fashanu goes a long way towards offsetting that AND building for the future.
I think this was a relatively easy draft on paper for Douglas in the 1st round. Plenty of good tackles on paper, and I always like guys like Fashanu who are viewed as studs prior to the pre-draft process, and slip a little due in part to nit-picking him. Bowers would have been good. Trading up for a WR would have been good. OT would have been good.
OT was always the play that set us up best for the long term. I like Bowers a lot, and I think Bowers could have helped out the 2024 team more than Fashanu does. However, long-term, taking an OT makes a ton of sense positionally. There will be a point this year that we are thrilled we have Fashanu.