Post by: Johnny English on September 16, 2016, 12:00:41 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 16, 2016, 12:10:58 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on September 16, 2016, 12:19:55 AM
Post by: MoreCharacters on September 16, 2016, 12:34:44 AM
i think it's time for the proletariat to take to the streets
burn this mf to the ground
Post by: MoreCharacters on September 16, 2016, 12:35:29 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on September 16, 2016, 12:56:22 AM
dcm for prime minister of the internet and representative of the people
Do you work on Trumps campaign?
Post by: Badger on September 16, 2016, 05:25:12 AM
are the mods really so tyrannical that it's necessary to bump a thread from 2013 to talk about the o-line
Even though a mod did it I'm still going to say no, this sort of thing is the opposite of what the mods want.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 16, 2016, 05:43:15 AM
Post by: MoreCharacters on September 16, 2016, 05:51:40 AM
Do you work on Trumps campaign?
making YDKF great again
Post by: Johnny English on September 16, 2016, 07:34:06 AM
Even though a mod did it I'm still going to say no, this sort of thing is the opposite of what the mods want.
I used the search function to look for a thread about the offensive line. I found one. I posted in it. Why do you care?
Post by: guinness77 on September 16, 2016, 07:54:47 AM
I used the search function to look for a thread about the offensive line. I found one. I posted in it. Why do you care?Oh excrement
Post by: bojanglesman on September 16, 2016, 08:02:01 AM
I used the search function to look for a thread about the offensive line. I found one. I posted in it. Why do you care?What were you thinking? Are you the Antichrist? Get out.
Post by: Miamipuck on September 16, 2016, 09:14:09 AM
making YDKF great againHahaha
Post by: Pope on September 16, 2016, 10:09:33 AM
Oddly enough our weakness is our secondary. Every other position group I've been happy with outside of Folk's mishaps week 1
Post by: MBGreen on September 16, 2016, 10:28:48 AM
Great teams are built in the trenches. I was worried about our offensive line but they've been excellent.Its odd and a bit concerning, considering the bulk of Bowles' coaching experience came from coaching the secondary.
Oddly enough our weakness is our secondary. Every other position group I've been happy with outside of Folk's mishaps week 1
Post by: bojanglesman on September 16, 2016, 10:31:19 AM
Its odd and a bit concerning, considering the bulk of Bowles' coaching experience came from coaching the secondary.In the end, Bowles can't go out there and play.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 16, 2016, 10:35:36 AM
I think that's one of the biggest problems
Post by: MBGreen on September 16, 2016, 10:39:52 AM
In the end, Bowles can't go out there and play.Racist
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 16, 2016, 11:57:00 AM
There's certainly been a lot of communication issues between the safeties and cornerbacks.Take away 4 big plays, and this team has been dominant thus far.
I think that's one of the biggest problems
- 2 of the plays were mental/physical mistakes (Jalin Marshall fumble and Goodwin's TD over Revis)
- 2 of the plays were communication mistakes (Salas/Green TDs)
Post by: Miamipuck on September 16, 2016, 12:56:55 PM
Take away 4 big plays, and this team has been dominant thus far.
- 2 of the plays were mental/physical mistakes (Jalin Marshall fumble and Goodwin's TD over Revis)
- 2 of the plays were communication mistakes (Salas/Green TDs)
If they can fix the brain farts and say," this team will be really good, ".
I think that's an understatement.
Post by: Coach K on September 16, 2016, 02:56:22 PM
Run blocking is ok , a lot of these plays are great timing on calls by Gailey n Forte running detained though
Mangold replacement needs to be found. Didn't Wesley Johnson step in for Carp
OR was it Dozier?
Either way Clady has been solid but we will see if he can even finish the season
In an ideal world Clady /Winters/Carpenter warrant keeping as we retool C and OT for depth .
Post by: Badger on September 16, 2016, 08:20:10 PM
I used the search function to look for a thread about the offensive line. I found one. I posted in it. Why do you care?
Because this is an entirely new discussion and deserves a new thread.
Post by: Johnny English on September 16, 2016, 08:20:59 PM
Because this is an entirely new discussion and deserves a new thread.
It's a discussion about the offensive line in a thread about the offensive line.
Post by: Badger on September 16, 2016, 08:40:14 PM
It's a discussion about the offensive line in a thread about the offensive line.
By that logic we should just have one Jets thread.
Post by: MBGreen on September 16, 2016, 10:23:48 PM
By that logic we should just have one Jets thread.
#BringBackTheNYJetsTweetsthread
Post by: Johnny English on September 16, 2016, 11:06:20 PM
By that logic we should just have one Jets thread.
No, we have Jets forum. Inside that forum are threads. They relate to specific topics. One of those is the offensive line.
I don't really care if you want to have a 2016 OL thread, feel free to split it out if you want. I just don't understand why it bothers you.
Post by: Badger on September 16, 2016, 11:49:30 PM
No, we have Jets forum. Inside that forum are threads. They relate to specific topics. One of those is the offensive line.
I don't really care if you want to have a 2016 OL thread, feel free to split it out if you want. I just don't understand why it bothers you.
There's a spectrum; on one end would be a dcmesque poster starting a new thread every day about any thought that leaks out of his brain. On the other end there is bumping a thread that hasn't been touched in three years to have a completely different conversation than the existing posts in it.
I think it's really fair to say that good forum-keeping would encourage something in between those two extremes. We don't want clutter but we don't want to lump multiple independent topics from different seasons into one thread because they share a very general theme.
The primary reason I'm bothered is that Tapatalk makes splitting threads more difficult than it was in a browser, and since last year I've had way less time to spend on the forum and almost all of it has been on Tapatalk. And it took more effort on your part to do the less preferable thing and shoehorn a new conversation into a three year old thread.
The scenario where I'm completely fine with bumping old threads is to highlight a post that demonstrates you were right and/or someone else was wrong about something.
Post by: Johnny English on September 16, 2016, 11:58:10 PM
There's a spectrum; on one end would be a dcmesque poster starting a new thread every day about any thought that leaks out of his brain. On the other end there is bumping a thread that hasn't been touched in three years to have a completely different conversation than the existing posts in it.
I think it's really fair to say that good forum-keeping would encourage something in between those two extremes. We don't want clutter but we don't want to lump multiple independent topics from different seasons into one thread because they share a very general theme.
The primary reason I'm bothered is that Tapatalk makes splitting threads more difficult than it was in a browser, and since last year I've had way less time to spend on the forum and almost all of it has been on Tapatalk. And it took more effort on your part to do the less preferable thing and shoehorn a new conversation into a three year old thread.
The scenario where I'm completely fine with bumping old threads is to highlight a post that demonstrates you were right and/or someone else was wrong about something.
OK. Tapatalk is a thing I use if I want to have a quick look at the board at the gym or in bed, but the vast majority of the time I access the board from my PC. If it's an issue for Tapatalk users then I get it.
Again, though, it took no effort. I realise that forum users generally don't like to use the search function (not just this forum, it's a general behaviour) but it was literally zero effort to click Search, type "Offensive Line" and respond to the thread entitled "Offensive Line". It's generally considered forum etiquette to do exactly that.
Post by: Badger on September 17, 2016, 06:41:49 AM
OK. Tapatalk is a thing I use if I want to have a quick look at the board at the gym or in bed, but the vast majority of the time I access the board from my PC. If it's an issue for Tapatalk users then I get it.
Again, though, it took no effort. I realise that forum users generally don't like to use the search function (not just this forum, it's a general behaviour) but it was literally zero effort to click Search, type "Offensive Line" and respond to the thread entitled "Offensive Line". It's generally considered forum etiquette to do exactly that.
I just explained why it's poor forum etiquette, but if you don't care, OK.
Post by: Pope on September 17, 2016, 07:13:52 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2016, 07:30:20 AM
There's a spectrum; on one end would be a dcmesque poster starting a new thread every day about any thought that leaks out of his brain. On the other end there is bumping a thread that hasn't been touched in three years to have a completely different conversation than the existing posts in it.
I think it's really fair to say that good forum-keeping would encourage something in between those two extremes. We don't want clutter but we don't want to lump multiple independent topics from different seasons into one thread because they share a very general theme.
The primary reason I'm bothered is that Tapatalk makes splitting threads more difficult than it was in a browser, and since last year I've had way less time to spend on the forum and almost all of it has been on Tapatalk. And it took more effort on your part to do the less preferable thing and shoehorn a new conversation into a three year old thread.
The scenario where I'm completely fine with bumping old threads is to highlight a post that demonstrates you were right and/or someone else was wrong about something.
Give me my Quincy Enunwa thread back you freaking commie
Post by: Johnny English on September 30, 2016, 08:20:32 PM
Quote
14. Jets RG Brian Winters has a pass-blocking efficiency of 99.4 this season, tied for the best mark among guards.
In every year since being drafted, Brian Winters has improved his pass blocking. This year, he’s taken an even bigger step, and is entering his seventh straight game with no sacks or hits allowed. He will at times face Michael Bennett, who splits his time on the left and right, and at times rushes from the inside. Bennett has two sacks this season, but both have been on the offense’s left side. If Bennett still doesn’t have a sack from the offense’s right, Winters will play a part in that.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-32-pff-stats-to-know-for-nfl-week-4/
Post by: dcm1602 on September 30, 2016, 10:04:18 PM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-32-pff-stats-to-know-for-nfl-week-4/
The fact that Fitz is known for getting rid of the ball quickly and not taking sacks, could this be artificially inflating our OLs pass protection grades?
I have to imagine so
Post by: Johnny English on September 30, 2016, 10:40:18 PM
The fact that Fitz is known for getting rid of the ball quickly and not taking sacks, could this be artificially inflating our OLs pass protection grades?
I have to imagine so
He's made a bunch of downfield throws from clean pockets and you don't do that inside two seconds. The line has been really good so far this season.
Post by: JFIF on October 01, 2016, 01:54:12 AM
He's made a bunch of downfield throws from clean pockets and you don't do that inside two seconds. The line has been really good so far this season.
yep
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 01, 2016, 08:14:41 AM
The fact that Fitz is known for getting rid of the ball quickly and not taking sacks, could this be artificially inflating our OLs pass protection grades?
I have to imagine so
I saw somewhere that Clady is PFF's 50th ranked tackle. So let's not take away from Winters here. We all saw what he did against Atkins.
Post by: Pope on October 01, 2016, 10:54:44 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 03, 2016, 11:52:59 AM
Post by: Johnny English on October 03, 2016, 11:58:11 AM
Brian Winters is a freaking moron.
It was a really stupid thing to do, but it came the play after Seattle had just taken a 15 yard penalty for trying to take Fitz's head off. I'm assuming Winters was trying to send a message that they weren't going to be intimidated by big bad Michael Bennett, and while it was dumb on many levels who wouldn't like the opportunity to stick the nut on that gobshite?
After the excrement Winters has taken over his career with us and the way he has answered his critics, I think he should get a pass this once. Also, Ijalana was quite effective there after he left the field, although I thought Wes Johnson was our backup guard.
Post by: Coach K on October 03, 2016, 11:59:53 AM
Half of that is Fitz stepping into the pocket though . Someone else would be getting hit at a much higher rate
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 03, 2016, 12:33:57 PM
It was a really stupid thing to do, but it came the play after Seattle had just taken a 15 yard penalty for trying to take Fitz's head off. I'm assuming Winters was trying to send a message that they weren't going to be intimidated by big bad Michael Bennett, and while it was dumb on many levels who wouldn't like the opportunity to stick the nut on that gobshite?
After the excrement Winters has taken over his career with us and the way he has answered his critics, I think he should get a pass this once. Also, Ijalana was quite effective there after he left the field, although I thought Wes Johnson was our backup guard.
Seattle had been penalized. The refs took care of it. Winters putting the team in a bad position is only compounded by the fact that he managed to concuss himself for good measure.
It also led to Mangold getting completely blindsided too.
He's a freaking moron.
Post by: Johnny English on October 03, 2016, 12:40:40 PM
Seattle had been penalized. The refs took care of it. Winters putting the team in a bad position is only compounded by the fact that he managed to concuss himself for good measure.
It also led to Mangold getting completely blindsided too.
He's a freaking moron.
He did a stupid thing, but he's done lots of good things this season as well. If it becomes a pattern I'll start to be bothered.
And Mangold got pushed over. He's a big strong boy, he'll be fine. I'm happy to call Bennett out because I think he's a dick, but he hardly threw himself helmet first - he gave Nick a little shove in the back and then ran away. Not really a big deal.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 03, 2016, 12:49:06 PM
He did a stupid thing, but he's done lots of good things this season as well. If it becomes a pattern I'll start to be bothered.
And Mangold got pushed over. He's a big strong boy, he'll be fine. I'm happy to call Bennett out because I think he's a dick, but he hardly threw himself helmet first - he gave Nick a little shove in the back and then ran away. Not really a big deal.
While I'm certainly not going to change my stance that he's a moron, it's just another example of poor coaching. I'm pointing a big spotlight at coaching as the primary problem with this team right now.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 08, 2017, 07:21:22 PM
Adams missed most of the last two years recovering from knee surgery (patellar tendon). It's a solid flyer if Adams can regain his pre-injury form. Adams started at guard for Houston before going down, but should get a look at tackle with the Jets."
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2017, 08:14:52 PM
"Jets signed OT Jeff Adams.Stash him and break glass if needed.
Adams missed most of the last two years recovering from knee surgery (patellar tendon). It's a solid flyer if Adams can regain his pre-injury form. Adams started at guard for Houston before going down, but should get a look at tackle with the Jets."
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 11, 2018, 09:37:51 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 11, 2018, 09:38:06 PM
#BringBackTheNYJetsTweetsthread
Sup
Post by: MBGreen on September 11, 2018, 09:46:10 PM
SupHai?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2018, 08:34:30 AM
2019 FA OG Ali Marpet
Post by: Johnny English on October 02, 2018, 09:20:33 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/veteranscout/status/1046936439152230410
2019 FA OG Ali Marpet
Awesome job blocking the DB. Shame he got the one who was waiting behind an existing block and not the safety coming in behind like a guided missile, who blew up the receiver and with it any chance of making the first down.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2018, 09:51:54 AM
Awesome job blocking the DB. Shame he got the one who was waiting behind an existing block and not the safety coming in behind like a guided missile, who blew up the receiver and with it any chance of making the first down.
Shame the WR didn’t follow his blocks and cut that to the outside.
Point was that he’s a great Carpenter replacement candidate. No one on our OL currently has that type of athleticism, mobility, or push.
Post by: Jumbo on October 02, 2018, 10:31:44 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/veteranscout/status/1046936439152230410
2019 FA OG Ali Marpet
Dude's played all over the o-line for them and been great at all positions, would love to bring him in
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2018, 03:01:44 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2018, 04:07:16 PM
Post by: reuben on October 02, 2018, 10:28:49 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1047191566383812608
...is Shell pass blocking?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2018, 10:37:45 PM
...is Shell pass blocking?
No, because he went upfield. I don't know what his assignment was, but he was probably supposed to seal off the backside with the tight end's help.
I can't tell what this play is. It looks like ISO, but Beachum gets beat so quickly that I can't even tell what he was trying to do.
Watching it over and over again, James Carpenter looks like he fucked up. He needed to block down and help Beachum. Long reached the tackle and blocked him. Carpenter didn't do anything on that play.
Brian Winters is trying to get to the linebacker for some reason.
The entire play is just terrible.
Post by: ons on October 06, 2018, 12:54:50 AM
Not a particularly well-made video, but excrement, watching the O-Line just get ruined by four man rushes and basic stunts over and over again is pretty depressing.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 06, 2018, 01:01:52 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 06, 2018, 06:31:58 AM
Our entire offensive line is awful. I hope we have at least three new starters in 2019.
Just imagine how fucked we'd be if we traded for Mack. We'd basically be forced to replace the whole OL in free agency
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 07, 2018, 09:17:55 PM
Holy excrement Winters
Post by: Badger on October 07, 2018, 10:27:14 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/bigduke50/status/1049085017429692416RIP Shane Ray
Holy excrement Winters
Post by: MoreCharacters on October 08, 2018, 12:44:53 PM
Post by: reuben on October 08, 2018, 06:27:19 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/bigduke50/status/1049085017429692416
Holy excrement Winters
I feel like we had a tight end blocking Von Miller for most of the game and I have no idea how that worked.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 08, 2018, 07:25:35 PM
I feel like we had a tight end blocking Von Miller for most of the game and I have no idea how that worked.
Herndon wrecked him on a couple of run plays.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on October 09, 2018, 11:45:48 AM
I feel like we had a tight end blocking Von Miller for most of the game and I have no idea how that worked.
White trash was also solid vs him on passing downs.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 09, 2018, 01:06:09 PM
Quote
#Bucs have signed G Ali Marpet to a five-year extension, the team announced. It was a priority for them...
Fuuuuuck
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 09, 2018, 09:31:30 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 09, 2018, 09:34:15 PM
Long, Winters and Shell are good enough to be part of the future. We will need to find better options than Carpenter and Beachum going forward.
Long has been pretty disappointing.
Carpenter is our worst lineman.
Post by: MBGreen on October 09, 2018, 09:58:17 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 09, 2018, 10:40:03 PM
Long has been pretty disappointing.I totally forgot that Long has no guaranteed money after this year. So I'm fine getting rid of him, too, if we can find a better option.
Carpenter is our worst lineman.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 09, 2018, 10:46:06 PM
I totally forgot that Long has no guaranteed money after this year. So I'm fine getting rid of him, too, if we can find a better option.
We should try to find a center in the draft and move Long to guard
Post by: MexJetinBcn on October 10, 2018, 05:15:44 AM
What the freak was with Long and all the high snaps?
He had a thumb injury it seems (for real)
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2018, 07:29:55 AM
We should try to find a center in the draft and move Long to guard
Any Centers worth looking at?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2018, 07:35:46 AM
Any Centers worth looking at?
Mississippi State's Elgton Jenkins is the best in the country. I think we'll see a lot of guard prospects get looked at as centers.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 10, 2018, 01:28:21 PM
Post by: Badger on October 10, 2018, 02:13:46 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2018, 07:12:02 PM
...Elgton?Smunt?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 15, 2018, 07:49:55 PM
Post by: Badger on October 15, 2018, 07:58:35 PM
Post by: Badger on October 15, 2018, 08:00:07 PM
https://www.ebay.com/p/Jabaal-Sheard-Papa-John-s-Cleveland-Browns-NFL-Glass-Limited-to-Ne-Ohio-W-box/1031761173
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 16, 2018, 10:23:42 AM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1051982165037203457
Watching that clip, Long was absolutely atrocious on that play. He snapped the ball, stretched both his arms out to the sides, and didn't touch a single person. And he stepped on Winters' foot.
Post by: reuben on October 16, 2018, 09:04:42 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 16, 2018, 09:14:28 PM
Yeah, I'd credit Sam having to pick the ball up off the ground more than Winters getting destroyed.
He was also hit on the elbow during the throw
Post by: reuben on October 16, 2018, 09:26:15 PM
Quote
Free agent OT Derek Newton worked out for the Jets on Tuesday.
Newton is a player everyone should be pulling for as he tries to become the first NFL player to return to action after tearing both patellar tendons on the same play. One source said Newton "looked good" at his tryout on Tuesday, but the two parties haven't signed a deal. If Newton is able to come back -- he might have a better shot at a return playing guard if he's less mobile -- in any capacity, it will be one of the biggest comeback stories of the season.
Wasn't there a Browns cornerback about a decade ago who came back from two exploded knees? Or tried to, at least?
Post by: Johnny English on October 16, 2018, 10:20:14 PM
Wasn't there a Browns cornerback about a decade ago who came back from two exploded knees? Or tried to, at least?
Even if there was, I fancy a corner to have a better chance of recovering from something like that than a 300lb tackle who wasn't all that good to start with. There's no way that Newton will be better than Menelik Watson, and Watson is crap.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 23, 2018, 10:28:29 AM
Forbes is a r’tard but I was unaware Saffold was any good these days or that he’ll be a FA
Post by: insanity on October 23, 2018, 11:48:39 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/nfldraftbites/status/1054755399038046209I thought he was out of the league.
Forbes is a r’tard but I was unaware Saffold was any good these days or that he’ll be a FA
Is Jason Smith a pro bowler as well?
Post by: Koz on October 23, 2018, 11:58:24 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 24, 2018, 08:48:09 AM
29 years old
Post by: Libero_2 on October 24, 2018, 01:58:00 PM
Replying to a question asking whether there's "any chance" Raiders LG Kelechi Osemele is traded, the Athletic's Vic Tafur replied, "Everyone is available."
29 years old
Depending on his contract that’s a guy we should look into
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 29, 2018, 08:43:30 PM
@EvanSilva:The #Colts suddenly having an elite offensive line is one of the most underrated storylines of the season
We should do this.
Post by: MBGreen on October 29, 2018, 08:50:55 PM
@DanielJeremiah:Just broke down Andrew Luck vs Oakland. He was knocked down 1 time. He was completely untouched on 24 of 31 pass attempts. The pass protection was incredible. Finally, he has a legit OL.
@EvanSilva:The #Colts suddenly having an elite offensive line is one of the most underrated storylines of the season
We should do this.
To be fair....Oakland's pass rush is on par with the Frankfurt Galaxy.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 29, 2018, 08:53:15 PM
To be fair....Oakland's pass rush is on par with the Frankfurt Galaxy.
Luck has been sacked 0 times in the last 3 weeks. You also saw what Marlon Mack did to us firsthand.
Post by: MBGreen on October 29, 2018, 08:55:39 PM
Luck has been sacked 0 times in the last 3 weeks. You also saw what Marlon Mack did to us firsthand.
we don't have a pass rush either.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 29, 2018, 08:56:48 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 29, 2018, 08:59:42 PM
Mahomes, Ben, Newton, and Luck have been sacked 10 times. Brees, Brady and Rivers have been sacked 9 times. That’s the leaderboard.
Frank Reich has done a great job with that team.
Oh hey, we interviewed and passed on him in favor of Bowles.
Post by: reuben on October 29, 2018, 10:08:52 PM
@DanielJeremiah:Just broke down Andrew Luck vs Oakland. He was knocked down 1 time. He was completely untouched on 24 of 31 pass attempts. The pass protection was incredible. Finally, he has a legit OL.
@EvanSilva:The #Colts suddenly having an elite offensive line is one of the most underrated storylines of the season
We should do this.
That's crazy talk, everybody knows drafting an interior lineman in the top ten is a waste of a pick.
/gord
Post by: Pope on October 29, 2018, 10:14:39 PM
That's crazy talk, everybody knows drafting an interior lineman in the top ten is a waste of a pick.Yea true, Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack
/gord
Post by: reuben on October 29, 2018, 10:21:00 PM
Yea true, Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack
So some draft picks are busts, is what you're saying? Hot take.
Post by: Pope on October 29, 2018, 10:21:54 PM
Sorry for being so smart and ruining your stupid point :)
So some draft picks are busts, is what you're saying? Hot take.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2018, 07:52:24 AM
That's crazy talk, everybody knows drafting an interior lineman in the top ten is a waste of a pick.
/gord
They also spend a 3rd rounder on OG Braden Smith from Auburn who I was pretty high on, I only had Quenton Nelson, Will Hernandez, and Isiah Wynn graded higher.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2018, 07:53:14 AM
Post by: Pope on October 30, 2018, 12:44:03 PM
But we all know you can find a gord in the latter roundsI was being a prick but all things equal, I’d much rather use a top 10 pick on a premiere position like an edge rusher, left tackle, or WR than an interior lineman. Not to say that it’s a terrible pick to go Gord at 7 overall or whatever but I think most teams can do better
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2018, 12:56:35 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on October 30, 2018, 01:05:00 PM
@DanielJeremiah:Just broke down Andrew Luck vs Oakland. He was knocked down 1 time. He was completely untouched on 24 of 31 pass attempts. The pass protection was incredible. Finally, he has a legit OL.
@EvanSilva:The #Colts suddenly having an elite offensive line is one of the most underrated storylines of the season
We should do this.
The weird thing is, after the jets game people were criticizing the Colts offensive line as being subpar, when it really isn't.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2018, 01:30:14 PM
Quote
Sam Monson @PFF_Sam
#1 D Watson 45%
#2 K Cousins 41%
#3 D Prescott 40%
#4 J Rosen 40%
#5 C Keenum 37%
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2018, 09:26:43 AM
But we all know you can find a gord in the latter rounds
Quenton Nelson won rookie of the month for Oct.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2018, 02:06:16 PM
Quenton Nelson won rookie of the month for Oct.
We won’t see a player like him for 10 year
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2018, 07:07:58 PM
We won’t see a player like him for 10 year
6th Round Gord, you heard of him?
Post by: Badger on November 05, 2018, 09:03:19 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 05, 2018, 09:15:55 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on November 05, 2018, 09:19:35 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2018, 04:10:30 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 06, 2018, 12:00:57 PM
But seriously this offensive line was the number one reason I didn't want to see Darnold start this year.
I had this track on repeat all preseason.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 06, 2018, 12:04:14 PM
But seriously this offensive line was the number one reason I didn't want to see Darnold start this year.
I'm glad he's playing and happy that he seems to be tough and can take a hit. Also, they're not afraid to send him straight into the line on 4th and less than a yard, New England does it with Brady too.
Post by: Johnny English on November 06, 2018, 12:10:27 PM
But seriously this offensive line was the number one reason I didn't want to see Darnold start this year.
Why? Lots of young QBs start behind questionable lines, and in fact in the current NFL with such QB-friendly rules it's never been easier for them to do so. It's not like Darnold was coming from Washington State or Texas Tech where he's never had to think about a defense before and needed time to learn behind a vet; he's going to learn a lot more by getting out there and doing it.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 06, 2018, 12:13:28 PM
Why? Lots of young QBs start behind questionable lines, and in fact in the current NFL with such QB-friendly rules it's never been easier for them to do so. It's not like Darnold was coming from Washington State or Texas Tech where he's never had to think about a defense before and needed time to learn behind a vet; he's going to learn a lot more by getting out there and doing it.
True.
Also, is it me or does it seem like the first five possessions of every game start inside our own 15?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2018, 03:12:12 PM
Why? Lots of young QBs start behind questionable lines, and in fact in the current NFL with such QB-friendly rules it's never been easier for them to do so. It's not like Darnold was coming from Washington State or Texas Tech where he's never had to think about a defense before and needed time to learn behind a vet; he's going to learn a lot more by getting out there and doing it.
Mostly because of what happened with the last USC quarterback with turnover concerns that we drafted.
Post by: Johnny English on November 06, 2018, 03:26:37 PM
Mostly because of what happened with the last USC quarterback with turnover concerns that we drafted.
OK, but Sam Darnold through 9 games is a completely different player than Mark Sanchez was, and Sanchez was playing behind an outstanding line.
Peyton Manning threw 18 picks in his first 9 games. I don't really care how many picks Sam throws as much as the nature of the picks he's throwing and why he's throwing them, and what I'm not seeing from Sam that we saw from Sanchez for pretty much his entire time with the Jets is target fixation and panic. His picks are coming from reading the field and attempting to force something to happen, because the scheme isn't giving him the easy outs. No one respects our run game, so they're continually dropping extra men into coverage and inviting him to try and beat us with his arm - with predictable results.
This isn't on Sam, and I'm not concerned about his development. He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing, and he doesn't look like he's getting rattled. (A couple of his intercepted throws on Sunday were pretty awful, but every QB is going to have those on occasion and until it becomes a regular thing I'm not worried about it.) I don't think Sam's development would have been aided at all by having McCown or Bridgewater out there; in fact, what would have happened is exactly what has happened so far except the fans would be baying for Darnold to start, and then he'd be coming into the team halfway through a struggling season with the expectations on his shoulders of being the saviour.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2018, 03:43:06 PM
It's a miracle he's not getting killed back there. Granted it turned out differently than I expected but going into training camp and week 1 I would have much rather seen Bridgewater or McCown taking hits than Darnold. It's a dick move but those guys are/we're expendable; Darnold isn't.
Post by: Johnny English on November 06, 2018, 03:57:39 PM
It's a miracle he's not getting killed back there.
No it isn't. He reads pressure, he's comfortable throwing on the run and he isn't scared to throw it away. None of that is a miracle and all of it is a good reason why putting him behind a sub-optimal line, while obviously not ideal, isn't the end of the world.
The answer to our problems isn't to take the good QB out until the rest of the team is ready for him, it's get the rest of the team better in a hurry.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 06, 2018, 04:06:30 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 06, 2018, 04:20:03 PM
The downside of playing him behind a bad O-line is that it's going to lead to mistakes and could get him hurt. He's shown the ability to avoid injury to this point and the mistakes don't matter since New England wrapped up the division the day Brady reported to camp. So let him play, hope he makes it 16 games and he'll have plenty of film to look at the next eight months before he goes back on the field. Maybe the shitty season will lead to us getting an elite LT at the top of the draft. We do very well drafting in the top 6, after that it's a total crapshoot.
Of course a bad line creates some risk of injury, but this isn't some delicate little flower we're talking about - he's a 6'3 230lb professional athlete. Also, I'd make an argument that a really good line represents a different but equally great chance of getting a rookie QB injured; if they start their career behind a great line then they can come to depend upon that time in the pocket on each snap, so when the pressure does come quickly they're not expecting it. At least in this situation Sam is rapidly coming up to speed with how quickly pressure arrives in the NFL, and he's expecting to have to deal with it. That's probably a pretty valuable learning exercise.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 06, 2018, 04:24:36 PM
I'm also in the camp of being terrified that this garbage offensive line is going to get him hurt. I don't know how anyone doesn't have that fear right now.
Post by: Johnny English on November 06, 2018, 04:25:46 PM
I'm also in the camp of being terrified that this garbage offensive line is going to get him hurt. I don't know how anyone doesn't have that fear right now.
Because some of us are watching games rather than just parroting whatever Westhoff is ranting about this week on SNY.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 06, 2018, 05:40:29 PM
Of course a bad line creates some risk of injury, but this isn't some delicate little flower we're talking about - he's a 6'3 230lb professional athlete. Also, I'd make an argument that a really good line represents a different but equally great chance of getting a rookie QB injured; if they start their career behind a great line then they can come to depend upon that time in the pocket on each snap, so when the pressure does come quickly they're not expecting it. At least in this situation Sam is rapidly coming up to speed with how quickly pressure arrives in the NFL, and he's expecting to have to deal with it. That's probably a pretty valuable learning exercise.
Sanchez started with a great line and we won more games, then when we couldn't afford to keep them all he didn't function as well when he had to move around more.
Post by: Pope on November 06, 2018, 06:17:00 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Of course a bad line creates some risk of injury, but this isn't some delicate little flower we're talking about - he's a 6'3 230lb professional athlete. Also, I'd make an argument that a really good line represents a different but equally great chance of getting a rookie QB injured; if they start their career behind a great line then they can come to depend upon that time in the pocket on each snap, so when the pressure does come quickly they're not expecting it. At least in this situation Sam is rapidly coming up to speed with how quickly pressure arrives in the NFL, and he's expecting to have to deal with it. That's probably a pretty valuable learning exercise.
1. He's injured,
2. A better line creates a greater chance of injury? Seriously?
Post by: Johnny English on November 07, 2018, 01:34:27 PM
1. He's injured,
2. A better line creates a greater chance of injury? Seriously?
1. Football's a rough sport. Players get injured.
2. Not what I said. Read it again.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2018, 01:42:46 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 19, 2018, 11:09:09 AM
Post by: Koz on November 19, 2018, 11:34:00 AM
Are they busy?
Post by: MBGreen on November 19, 2018, 12:00:47 PM
Andrew Luck hasnt been sacked in 214 consecutive snaps - longest streak since 1981.
can't be right...they took a Gord in the 1st round last year
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2018, 08:50:26 PM
FA, 33 years old though
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2018, 10:42:14 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 23, 2018, 09:33:27 PM
Quote
JasonOTC: Matt Paradis, Daryl Williams, and maybe Rodger Saffold
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2018, 10:40:49 PM
WOOF
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2018, 03:04:46 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 03, 2018, 03:28:17 PM
OT Joe Barksdale was cut by the Chargers. He's 29 and suffers from depression. Still an upgrade over what we currently have.
You think playing for the Jets is a good idea for someone who's already suffering from depression?
Maybe we should get his brother Avon. He can just shoot any edge rusher who goes near Sam.
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2018, 03:36:29 PM
You think playing for the Jets is a good idea for someone who's already suffering from depression?Maybe the 2 negatives will cancel each other out?
Maybe we should get his brother Avon. He can just shoot any edge rusher who goes near Sam.
Can’t fight math.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2018, 09:24:42 AM
Beachum’s tantrum was directed at Crowell for missing his assignment in pass pro.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 04, 2018, 12:30:46 PM
There seems to be a huge disconnect between Isaiah Crowell and our OL.
Beachum’s tantrum was directed at Crowell for missing his assignment in pass pro.
That was some tantrum too.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 04, 2018, 08:51:10 PM
That was some tantrum too.
I didn't realize that was at Crowell. I was shocked its been a while since ive seen an OL go that nuts on a teammate as a play ended.
Post by: reuben on December 04, 2018, 09:29:17 PM
I didn't realize that was at Crowell. I was shocked its been a while since ive seen an OL go that nuts on a teammate as a play ended.
Hunter/Holmes?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 04, 2018, 09:32:59 PM
Hunter/Holmes?
Probably. Which was what, 2011?
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 05, 2018, 08:09:36 AM
Probably. Which was what, 2011?
Yes, Jan 1, 2012 to be exact.
This game is sitting on my DVR, worth watching or delete? I mean, I know the ending but I'm feeling uninformed.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 05, 2018, 08:57:34 AM
I didn't realize that was at Crowell. I was shocked its been a while since ive seen an OL go that nuts on a teammate as a play ended.
Honestly, I recall at the time thinking it was directed at Dozier, but what I really remember is how berzerk he went.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 05, 2018, 08:13:59 PM
Yes, Jan 1, 2012 to be exact.
This game is sitting on my DVR, worth watching or delete? I mean, I know the ending but I'm feeling uninformed.
It’s worth a watch. I didn’t see it live but knew the collapse happened and watched it. It was more interesting to watch after the fact than the last couple were
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 13, 2018, 10:44:39 AM
Quote
Ravens rookie 3rd round pick - OT Orlando Brown, Jr. - Oklahoma
Since taking over the starting RT spot in Week 7, he hasn’t allowed a single sack.
Taken 11 picks after Nathan Shepherd
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2018, 11:58:21 AM
Taken 11 picks after Nathan Shepherd
InB4 "Duff took Brandon Shell so he wouldn't have picked a right tackle instead of Shepherd."
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 13, 2018, 11:59:43 AM
It’s worth a watch. I didn’t see it live but knew the collapse happened and watched it. It was more interesting to watch after the fact than the last couple were
Ended up watching it. It's less excruciating when you already know we're going to blow it and how.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 20, 2018, 01:36:46 PM
Quote
Jets RT Brandon Shell (I.R.) has "beyond the typical ACL/MCL/PCL injury."
Shell was placed on the injured reserve on Wednesday, and there's no timetable for his return after undergoing surgery. A "typical" ACL-type surgery puts him six to nine months out, so a worse injury could effect his Week 1 status for the 2019 season. Before going down with his "complicated" injury, Shell was a positive pass blocker.
Two thoughts:
1) I'm so glad that we've spent a grand total of zero picks on the offensive line during the first two days of the draft the last four years.
2) This might actually turn out to be a good thing for us since it forces us try to upgrade a position we might not have otherwise.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 20, 2018, 01:39:05 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 20, 2018, 02:29:20 PM
Injuries like this are exactly why I don't blame guys holding out anymore. These guys' bodies are their entire business.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 20, 2018, 08:05:20 PM
Shell probably kicks inside to guard as depth if/when he comes back.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 20, 2018, 08:17:42 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 20, 2018, 08:24:49 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 01, 2019, 04:24:53 PM
Ravens rookie 3rd round pick - OT Orlando Brown, Jr. - Oklahoma
Taken 11 picks after Nathan Shepherd
Started 10 games, didn’t allow a sack
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 01, 2019, 04:27:46 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2019, 11:40:20 AM
Someone come up with a reason to blame this on Bowles
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2019, 11:46:25 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1080467050257104899
Someone come up with a reason to blame this on Bowles
He gave Bates the job of overseeing the offense, and therefore by extension allowed Rick Dennison to install a completely unsuitable blocking scheme given the personnel we have.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2019, 11:59:57 AM
He gave Bates the job of overseeing the offense, and therefore by extension allowed Rick Dennison to install a completely unsuitable blocking scheme given the personnel we have.
In 2017 FO had us ranked at 29th in Adj. Line Yards and 29th in Stuff rate. It’s the players
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2019, 12:01:29 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 02, 2019, 12:07:30 PM
Stuffed rate is when the RB is tackled at or behind the LOS. That doesn’t seem like it’s a scheme thing unless your scheme is don’t block the other team
Hahaha
Post by: Heismanberg on January 02, 2019, 12:14:06 PM
Stuffed rate is when the RB is tackled at or behind the LOS. That doesn’t seem like it’s a scheme thing unless your scheme is don’t block the other team
That’s certainly a blocking scheme issue
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2019, 12:21:31 PM
That’s certainly a blocking scheme issue
We were man blocking last year and zone blocking this year. The players weren’t good in either. I’m not arguing that our coaches/schemes have been good but I don’t think a coach outside of Dante Scarnecchia is turning our OL into a better than below average group
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2019, 12:33:29 PM
We were man blocking last year and zone blocking this year. The players weren’t good in either. I’m not arguing that our coaches/schemes have been good but I don’t think a coach outside of Dante Scarnecchia is turning our OL into a better than below average group
I'm not arguing that it's a better than below average group, I'm saying that coaching is at least part of the problem.
We're not getting five new linemen this offseason, in fact we'll probably get no more than two. We're going to have to find a way to make sub-optimal players be more effective. That's coaching.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2019, 12:34:34 PM
I'm not arguing that it's a better than below average group, I'm saying that coaching is at least part of the problem.
We're not getting five new linemen this offseason, in fact we'll probably get no more than two. We're going to have to find a way to make sub-optimal players be more effective. That's coaching.
No arguments here. We had bad players and bad coaching last season. Here’s to hoping we improve both as much as possible.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 02, 2019, 12:38:22 PM
I'm not arguing that it's a better than below average group, I'm saying that coaching is at least part of the problem.
We're not getting five new linemen this offseason, in fact we'll probably get no more than two. We're going to have to find a way to make sub-optimal players be more effective. That's coaching.
Going back a ways, but when Parcells was here there was a right tackle named Jason Fabini who came out of nowhere, I believe undrafted, and became a starter for a number of years. That never seemed like a coincidence to me.
It was a few years after Pat Riley turned Anthony Mason and John Starks from undrafted players into stars, also not a coincidence in my opinion.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 06, 2019, 10:17:12 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 06, 2019, 10:24:32 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 06, 2019, 12:49:51 PM
Gord
They drafted a gord with a 3rd rounder in 2018 and he’s been an above average starting RT for them.
Draft OL.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2019, 10:20:51 AM
Quote
Stunner: The #Colts are letting OL coach Dave DeGuglielmo go, sources say. That line made tremendous leaps this season. But Frank Reich wants his own guy. DeGuglielmo was the only offensive coach Josh McDaniels had hired. Reich is actually recommending him to other coaches.
This seems like a dumb move by the Colts
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2019, 10:22:25 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2019, 11:27:25 AM
Quote
Where NFC & AFC Championship Game qualifiers ranked in @fboutsiders Offensive Line pass-protection metric:
#Patriots -- No. 1
#Saints -- No. 3
#Chiefs -- No. 5
#Rams -- No. 6
Oh
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2019, 12:02:42 PM
Oh
we like to draft safeties...
Post by: insanity on January 15, 2019, 12:10:57 PM
Quote
And Denzelle Good wasn’t playing for the fans Monday night. The right guard was bulldozing Broncos players, lowering the two large chips on his shoulder — one for his late brother and one for how the Colts, his former team, treated him.
“I had a lot of anger already and that didn’t help it, so I knew a fresh start was what I really needed,” Good said before practice Thursday. “And I am using that anger against the guys I am blocking.”
Good’s brother, Overton Deshan Good, was killed in a drive-by shooting in South Carolina on Oct. 2. Good left the team to be with his family there and returned to Indianapolis a week later. He had started the game before he left but never played another down for the Colts after he returned.
Good said that offensive line coach Dave DeGuglielmo was upset that he had left the team and that in a meeting in his office a month ago DeGuglielmo told Good he was “a failure.”
“I came back after my brother was murdered and I was dealing with a lot of personal issues,” Good said. “That didn’t sit well with (DeGuglielmo). He wanted players that fight through things and play.”
Good was in a funk when he got back — “it was hard to just get back to my normal self when my brother was just murdered” — and DeGuglielmo got more and more upset with the guard. And then it all came out in the meeting.
“He told me that as long as I was there, I would never play for him again,” Good said. “I would never play another down because he felt disrespected. I wasn’t going to play even though I felt I was as good as anyone on the field playing.”
So Good immediately went to general manager Chris Ballard and asked for his release; Ballard granted his wish on Dec. 1.
freak this dude
Post by: Heismanberg on January 15, 2019, 12:26:42 PM
we like to draft safeties...
Not sure that’s the hill you want to die on considering one of those safeties is the best player on our team.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 15, 2019, 12:54:40 PM
Not sure that’s the hill you want to die on considering one of those safeties is the best player on our team.
True but the position has become devalued quite a bit. Obviously it worked out in Adam's case but I think we could all agree a stud corner defensive end or linebacker are much more valuable positions.
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2019, 12:55:52 PM
Not sure that’s the hill you want to die on considering one of those safeties is the best player on our team.
we also draft cuttable WRs.
Post by: insanity on January 15, 2019, 01:03:06 PM
we also draft cuttable WRs.Or franchise quarterbacks
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2019, 01:07:56 PM
Or franchise quarterbacks
Still banking on Hackenberg to break out in year 4 huh
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2019, 01:25:26 PM
Or franchise quarterbacks
BrycePettySZN
Post by: insanity on January 15, 2019, 01:29:48 PM
Still banking on Hackenberg to break out in year 4 huh
CFL Babbie
Post by: Johnny English on January 15, 2019, 03:51:26 PM
Gase’s OL coach in 2017 and Jets OL coach in 2012. Get it done TannyStill qant Callahan please.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 15, 2019, 05:47:36 PM
"[Wayne Hunter] is the starting right tackle," DeGuglielmo said in an interview with reporters today. "Until they tell me otherwise, until they ship him out of this building or until they shoot me dead in my office, that son-of-a-gun is going to be the starting right tackle. And he's going to play well."
Post by: Jumbo on January 15, 2019, 06:05:54 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 15, 2019, 08:05:13 PM
Colts OL was good because they invested heavily into it, not because of him. Pass.
We should invest in our OL
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 15, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
We should invest in our OL
1000 times this. Is anyone hitting the market this off-season? There isn't a single position in the front five that cannot be upgraded.
Alternatively, here's to hoping that the Jags try and pull an us this year to get a QB. We could really use several second round draft picks that MacCagnan doesn't waste.
Post by: Badger on January 15, 2019, 08:28:57 PM
1000 times this. Is anyone hitting the market this off-season? There isn't a single position in the front five that cannot be upgraded.https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/offensive-line/
Alternatively, here's to hoping that the Jags try and pull an us this year to get a QB. We could really use several second round draft picks that McCagnan doesn't waste.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 15, 2019, 08:41:03 PM
Tampa Bay OT Donovan Smith
Seattle OG JR Sweezy
New England OT LaAdrian Waddle
Kansas City C Mitch Morse
Kansas City OG Jeff Allen
New England OT Trent Brown
Carolina OT Daryl Williams
Los Angeles OG Rodger Saffold
Post by: Johnny English on January 15, 2019, 09:10:36 PM
Post by: Badger on January 15, 2019, 09:15:31 PM
Paradis and Brown top that list for me.Sweezy and Waddle top my list of funny names.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 15, 2019, 09:16:35 PM
Paradis and Brown top that list for me.
Same for me.
Another guy that Gregg Williams should know is former #2 pick and bust Greg Robinson. He actually played well at tackle and guard for Cleveland this year. Could be a nice bargain signing.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2019, 06:19:52 AM
Paradis and Brown top that list for me.
Those would be some solid signings, although I expect MacCagnan to give Long the "He was Injured so we need more time to evaluate," treatment.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2019, 06:56:01 AM
Edit: nvm packers got him
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2019, 11:13:21 AM
Quote
I’m seeing a lot of speculation/talk from outsiders talking bad about Coach Guge, and I just want to address it. He is a great fundamental coach and a great person. He unified us as an offensive line and pushed us to be the best. Anything else said about him is false.
Quenton Nelson
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 25, 2019, 11:11:20 PM
Ravens rookie 3rd round pick - OT Orlando Brown, Jr. - Oklahoma
Taken 11 picks after Nathan Shepherd
“Ravens RT Orlando Brown earned @PFF's highest pass-blocking grade among rookie offensive tackles in 2018, allowing 0 sacks & 1 QB hit across 760 snaps.”
freak my life
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2019, 07:47:39 AM
#FireDuff
“Ravens RT Orlando Brown earned @PFF's highest pass-blocking grade among rookie offensive tackles in 2018, allowing 0 sacks & 1 QB hit across 760 snaps.”
freak my life
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 26, 2019, 10:20:03 PM
Quote
#Jets have a decision to make on starting OL Spencer Long. He is owed a $3.5M roster bonus on February 6th. The #Jets could move on and save $6.5M by releasing him with no dead money.
Cut his derriere. I’m not trying to pay him more and hope he plays better than last year, injury or not.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 27, 2019, 06:29:43 AM
Cut his derriere. I’m not trying to pay him more and hope he plays better than last year, injury or not.
bingo. it's an easy decision to cut one of our weakest OL and save nearly $7 million.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 29, 2019, 01:58:49 PM
Cut his derriere. I’m not trying to pay him more and hope he plays better than last year, injury or not.
I've defended Long a little bit, but even if the Jets want him to return next year (as a guard, not center) they should still cut him. They can bring him back at a cheaper rate but no way should they pay his current deal.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2019, 02:56:15 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 29, 2019, 02:59:39 PM
That tackle from the dolphins, is there a fair chance of him being on Gases radar, since we're effectively Miami north now?
They don’t like each other.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 01, 2019, 07:44:25 PM
Quote
Guard: Word around the combine is the Jets will try to sign Los Angeles Rams free agent Rodger Saffold, a 2010 second-round pick and a longtime starter at left guard. He allowed only two sacks in the past two seasons. The concern with Saffold is that he will be 31. In recent years, Maccagnan has avoided multiyear contracts for players over 30, but maybe he feels pressure to expedite the rebuilding process. It looks like they will stick with Brian Winters at right guard.
Center: Two free agents on the Jets' radar are the Kansas City Chiefs' Mitch Morse, 27, and the Denver Broncos' Matt Paradis, 29. Morse hasn't allowed a single sack over the past three seasons, according to STATS, but he has had concussion issues and missed 14 games over the past two years. Paradis was a rock of durability from 2015 to 2017, but he's still recovering from a surgically repaired fibula. On Wednesday, Broncos GM John Elway called it "a pretty significant injury." He said he's interested in re-signing Paradis, but he added, "Matt has been a great warrior for us for four years. But, obviously, with the injury that he had, that changes the thought process. We'll have to see where that falls." The top center in the draft is NC State's Garrett Bradbury, according to Scouts, Inc. He's projected as a second rounder; the Jets don't have a second-round pick.
Tackle: The Jets could stand pat with Kelvin Beachum and Shell, who's coming off knee surgery, but they have to think long term at left tackle. Beachum, entering the final year of his contract, isn't viewed as Darnold's blindside protector of the future. The Jets might have some interest in Tampa Bay Buccaneers left tackle Donovan Smith, but there's talk he will get the franchise tag. Trent Brown, 26, is an intriguing option, but he will be pricey, and some say he's a product of the New England Patriots' system. The Jets might be better off looking for a left tackle in the draft.
The marching orders are clear. It's an SOS: Save Our Sam.
"We definitely are excited about putting players around Sam," Maccagnan said, "and that will be one of our focal points this offseason."
Extend Duff
Hat tip to Coach K for sending me this link.
Post by: Johnny English on March 01, 2019, 09:52:32 PM
Extend DuffPost the link then poopchute.
Hat tip to Coach K for sending me this link.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 01, 2019, 11:19:02 PM
Post the link then poopchute.
It’s Cimini and 99% of the article is in my post.
Post by: Laxin on March 19, 2019, 08:09:17 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 19, 2019, 08:19:22 AM
How was Harrison as a center last year when he started?Serviceable
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 19, 2019, 11:34:59 AM
How was Harrison as a center last year when he started?
Markedly better than Long, which says nothing at all.
But I think he's okay. I don't think he's the long-term answer to have in front of Sam for a Super Bowl run, but I think he's good enough that if they don't get anyone else this offseason, if they fill other big needs like OLB and CB, they can dedicate big resources next offseason to getting the center that will be the solution.
I'm at the point right now where I feel Maccagnan has done a lot and there's only so much more he can accomplish. I don't think C is going to be fully addressed this year.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2019, 12:00:12 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2019, 12:00:47 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 17, 2019, 12:01:43 PM
https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1173997359904239617?s=21
OL was and is atrocious, but I'm always wary of single shot screen grabs like that as they don't really tell you what's going on.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2019, 12:05:25 PM
OL was and is atrocious, but I'm always wary of single shot screen grabs like that as they don't really tell you what's going on.
https://twitter.com/dlinevids1/status/1173931844082917377?s=21
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2019, 12:07:10 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 17, 2019, 12:11:03 PM
https://twitter.com/dlinevids1/status/1173931844082917377?s=21
I don't think that that's on the players, that looks like a designed play. I have absolutely no freaking clue what it was supposed to do because it certainly didn't give the back any chance to cut away from the linemen. I am inclined to put most of the blame on Siemian for not recognising that there was a blitz coming and whatever the intent of the play was would not work, and changing the play call.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2019, 12:20:52 PM
I don't think that that's on the players, that looks like a designed play. I have absolutely no freaking clue what it was supposed to do because it certainly didn't give the back any chance to cut away from the linemen. I am inclined to put most of the blame on Siemian for not recognising that there was a blitz coming and whatever the intent of the play was would not work, and changing the play call.
You don’t think Beachum and Osmele could have tried to block one of the opposing pass rushers instead of letting them shoot by? Kalil and Winters got blown up. No reason to defend them. It’s possible for them to be at fault in addition to the coach and QB
Post by: Johnny English on September 17, 2019, 12:26:06 PM
You don’t think Beachum and Osmele could have tried to block one of the opposing pass rushers instead of letting them shoot by? Kalil and Winters got blown up. No reason to defend them. It’s possible for them to be at fault in addition to the coach and QB
Of course it's possible but you don't want your linemen freelancing; there was clearly a designed play and moving away from it would have meant not fulfilling their assignments, which is obviously bad. Of course execution is an issue, but even if Kalil and Winters had held their blocks that play was doomed from the outset.
The quarterback has to read that.
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2019, 12:33:45 PM
OLine is easily the worst unit on our team, imo.
nothing really surprises me anymore....but this does. I didn't expect our oline to be complete trash.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2019, 01:48:32 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2019, 02:07:52 PM
Gase had big problems in Miami with play design and OL protection scheme. Does anyone have the link that was posted here that was a breakdown of the Vikings 9 sack game against the dolphins last year? Most of the issues seen there were due to scheme. They didn’t put anyone on Barr similar how to we let Myles Garrett run wild last night
so glad Gase is capable of learning from his mistakes.
why do we hire these stubborn fucktards
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 17, 2019, 03:08:36 PM
so glad Gase is capable of learning from his mistakes.
why do we hire these stubborn fucktards
As they say, excrement rolls downhill.
Post by: insanity on September 17, 2019, 03:28:45 PM
I don't think that that's on the players, that looks like a designed play. I have absolutely no freaking clue what it was supposed to do because it certainly didn't give the back any chance to cut away from the linemen. I am inclined to put most of the blame on Siemian for not recognising that there was a blitz coming and whatever the intent of the play was would not work, and changing the play call.After watching this play 10 times I think I know what's going on here.
The play design and play call is actually not bad, the issue is the execution of the play and having a back up quarterback on the field.
Scheme: Outside Zone Play Action
The Play Design
- By design the widest zone defender on the weakside of the field is not supposed to be blocked by Beachum
- Crowder is supposed to keep that defender honest with the Fake Jet Sweep
The Play Execution
- Unfortunately Garrett, although lined up outside of Beachum is not the widest edge defender. The OLB is.
- The defensive alignment allows dual blitzers to come off the weak-side edge
- The OLB should be keeping outside contain on Crowder, but he ignores him
- Griffen and the rest of the o line whiffing on blocks make this play look like an absolute shitshow
With all the negatives this play had, it looks like Gase called a man beater and ended up getting an open RA in 1:1 coverage down the middle of the field. The blocking was just atrocious and we couldn't get him the ball
P.S. At first I thought this was a RPO outside zone play, but Semen never looks at the linebacker so I needed to change my analysis.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 17, 2019, 06:36:41 PM
You don’t think Beachum and Osmele could have tried to block one of the opposing pass rushers instead of letting them shoot by? Kalil and Winters got blown up. No reason to defend them. It’s possible for them to be at fault in addition to the coach and QB
It's the tight end's fault, but he really couldn't win there.
Myles Garrett made an outstanding read and squeezed. The OLB didn't bite on the sweep.
Griffin's responsible for the most dangerous defender, which was Garrett but when the linebacker blitzed, Cleveland won the numbers game.
The Browns defensive coordinator and Myles Garrett won on this play. It happens. It looks a lot worse than it actually is.
The line slid that way to get the coverage to bite for a quick hitter but it just wasn't there. We'll be seeing a lot of this over the next few weeks...
Post by: Heismanberg on September 17, 2019, 06:48:01 PM
No one was open. Anderson has a 1v1 in man coverage, but the safety would've murdered him if Siemian hits that slant.
Post by: reuben on September 17, 2019, 09:29:22 PM
Gase had big problems in Miami with play design and OL protection scheme. Does anyone have the link that was posted here that was a breakdown of the Vikings 9 sack game against the dolphins last year? Most of the issues seen there were due to scheme. They didn’t put anyone on Barr similar how to we let Myles Garrett run wild last night
It might have been Zimmer, I'm not sure, but someone from the Vikings said that the Dolphins were the only team they played all year that didn't gameplan for Anthony Barr.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2019, 10:33:18 PM
1) what the freak is this play design?
2) both TE’s, Beachum, and Osmele get toasted on this play
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2019, 10:34:07 PM
It might have been Zimmer, I'm not sure, but someone from the Vikings said that the Dolphins were the only team they played all year that didn't gameplan for Anthony Barr.
I was 99% sure you posted the link to the article. If you can find it I think it would be worth looking at again
Post by: insanity on September 17, 2019, 10:50:25 PM
https://twitter.com/otheroics1/status/1173764291675090944?s=21
1) what the freak is this play design?
2) both TE’s, Beachum, and Osmele get toasted on this play
I'm not going to even try with this play. Hopefully Beachum, Osmele, and Griffen are all recovering from Mono also.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 17, 2019, 10:59:30 PM
https://twitter.com/otheroics1/status/1173764291675090944?s=211) no idea
1) what the freak is this play design?
2) both TE’s, Beachum, and Osmele get toasted on this play
2) at least Le'Veon lit up his man to help protect the QB
Post by: Heismanberg on September 17, 2019, 11:21:47 PM
Gase is going to pee me off with these late zone, crack back blocks by the TEs.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 18, 2019, 03:22:15 PM
Quote
2010: Vlad Ducasse (Bust)
2011:
2012: Robert T Griffin (Bust)
2013: Winters (Serviceable), Oday Aboushi (Bust), Will Campbell (Bust)
2014: Dakota Dozier (Bust)
2015: Jarvis Harrison (Bust)
2016: Brandon Shell (Serviceable)
2017:
2018:
2019: Chuma Edoga (?)
Unacceptable
Post by: Badger on September 18, 2019, 04:18:11 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 18, 2019, 08:43:42 PM
But you can find a gord anywhere
I guess the real jokes on me for running that joke into the ground meanwhile we haven’t drafted a Gord since the 5th round of the 2015 draft
Post by: Laxin on September 18, 2019, 09:32:54 PM
Unacceptable
That’s freaking criminal
Post by: Heismanberg on September 18, 2019, 10:54:26 PM
GOAT
Post by: Badger on September 19, 2019, 07:30:23 AM
I guess the real jokes on me for running that joke into the ground meanwhile we haven’t drafted a Gord since the 5th round of the 2015 draft"You can materialize a gord out of thin air" - Jets FO post-2008
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2019, 03:05:54 PM
Post by: reuben on September 20, 2019, 03:38:14 PM
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-of-muth/2019/word-muth-rotten-apple
It's like watching DB's play under Bowles. Nobody knows what the freak they're supposed to be doing.
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
It's like watching DB's play under Bowles. Nobody knows what the freak they're supposed to be doing.
iT's sO gOOd hAVinG aN OfFEnsiVe cOacH
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2019, 03:49:27 PM
We also have older linemen that may just be washed.
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2019, 03:52:04 PM
I do think a lot of it has to do with getting a center out of retirement a few weeks before the season who is learning a brand new system.
We also have older linemen that may just be washed.
The staff had had some time to work with Harrison, and we signed Kalil very early in Douglas's tenure. They presumably didn't like what they saw.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2019, 10:23:22 PM
The staff had had some time to work with Harrison, and we signed Kalil very early in Douglas's tenure. They presumably didn't like what they saw.You're probably right. It was a worthy gamble, even if it isnt working so far.
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 22, 2019, 09:53:52 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2019, 08:00:30 AM
Post by: Johnny English on September 24, 2019, 08:14:57 AM
https://twitter.com/rocthejetsfan/status/1176345340770947072?s=21
It's nothing to do with Adam Gase, it's Luke Falk's fault
Post by: reuben on September 24, 2019, 08:36:47 AM
Praying for Sam.
Post by: insanity on September 24, 2019, 09:07:35 AM
Post by: Laxin on September 24, 2019, 10:44:12 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 24, 2019, 01:14:08 PM
Patriots knew the play.
It happens in football, especially when you’re predictable.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2019, 01:42:52 PM
That’s a horrible clip to fixate on the OL.
Patriots knew the play.
It happens in football, especially when you’re predictable.
Patriots do have a an uncanny ability to know other teams playbooks too...
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 24, 2019, 03:03:09 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on September 24, 2019, 08:49:42 PM
https://twitter.com/rocthejetsfan/status/1176345340770947072?s=21
Tweet deleted. What was it?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 24, 2019, 08:52:04 PM
Tweet deleted. What was it?
We ran a designed swing to Bell and the linemen looked goofy as hell trying to cut, pull, and get across the field.
People just assume that they are out of position because it looked disjointed, but New England just blew the play up. HURRRR THE OL IS NOT BEING COACHED!!
Beachum tried to cut the EDGE and failed, which pretty much ruined the entire play.
They weren't out of position. They just got their asses kicked.
Post by: Laxin on September 25, 2019, 10:17:29 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2019, 01:37:44 PM
I haven’t paid much attention to each individual OLman, but if Kalil is really as bad as he appears, why not put Harrison back at center?
While I thought Harrison did a good job last year after taking over and seemed to have a decent rapport with Darnold, you have to assume they pulled a guy out of retirement because Gase said, "I've watched this guy through OTAs and camp, and he can't play in my offense, get me something else."
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2019, 01:45:59 PM
While I thought Harrison did a good job last year after taking over and seemed to have a decent rapport with Darnold, you have to assume they pulled a guy out of retirement because Gase said, "I've watched this guy through OTAs and camp, and he can't play in my offense, get me something else."
To be fair Harrison got the job because he was capable of snapping the ball straight which instantly made him the best center on our roster; he was OK, but I can understand why they wanted a rather more experienced guy at the line helping a sophomore QB with what he was seeing.
We really have to hang our hats on the hope that Sam's mono was a blessing in disguise and that the line was getting its getting to know you phase out of the way with disposable QBs behind them, because if it had been Sam getting what Siemian got we'd have all lost our excrement completely. I honestly don't have much hope that it's going to be much better in week 5, but it's all I have to cling to.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2019, 02:04:23 PM
To be fair Harrison got the job because he was capable of snapping the ball straight which instantly made him the best center on our roster; he was OK, but I can understand why they wanted a rather more experienced guy at the line helping a sophomore QB with what he was seeing.
We really have to hang our hats on the hope that Sam's mono was a blessing in disguise and that the line was getting its getting to know you phase out of the way with disposable QBs behind them, because if it had been Sam getting what Siemian got we'd have all lost our excrement completely. I honestly don't have much hope that it's going to be much better in week 5, but it's all I have to cling to.
Not that I'm giving a pass to any of the coaching, and I'm sure there's at least some lack of cohesion due to lack of practice together, but I just don't think this OL is very talented.
I've felt all along that Darnold's first kiss was a blessing in disguise. To be honest, I still don't want to see him back in uniform. I don't have any belief that this season holds playoff possibility, so I'd rather keep him healthy.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 27, 2019, 02:16:36 PM
I haven’t paid much attention to each individual OLman, but if Kalil is really as bad as he appears, why not put Harrison back at center?
I'm sure that perception of a GM not wanting to have his first big signing ride the bench for 8 or 9 million. Although I would also imagine that Kalil could at least feasibly improve significantly as the season progresses and he remembers how to play football gets in shape and learns to gel with the other guys on the OL. While Hairston was here the whole offseason
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2019, 02:20:37 PM
I've felt all along that Darnold's first kiss was a blessing in disguise. To be honest, I still don't want to see him back in uniform. I don't have any belief that this season holds playoff possibility, so I'd rather keep him healthy.
That doesn't really make sense. If he doesn't play he isn't going to get better. If he doesn't get better then we won't.
You're doing the equivalent of being the old dear who buys a new sofa, keeps the shipping plastic on and doesn't let anyone sit on it because she wants to keep it for special guests. Who never come, because she's a strange old woman with plastic covered sofas.
Post by: mj2sexay on September 27, 2019, 02:25:00 PM
That doesn't really make sense. If he doesn't play he isn't going to get better. If he doesn't get better then we won't.
You're doing the equivalent of being the old dear who buys a new sofa, keeps the shipping plastic on and doesn't let anyone sit on it because she wants to keep it for special guests. Who never come, because she's a strange old woman with plastic covered sofas.
If you’re an Italian grandmother you get exempt from it being considered weird.
In fact, if you’re an Italian grandmother and your furniture isn’t in plastic, id consider that weird!
Post by: dcm1602 on September 27, 2019, 02:30:22 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2019, 03:22:06 PM
That doesn't really make sense. If he doesn't play he isn't going to get better. If he doesn't get better then we won't.
You're doing the equivalent of being the old dear who buys a new sofa, keeps the shipping plastic on and doesn't let anyone sit on it because she wants to keep it for special guests. Who never come, because she's a strange old woman with plastic covered sofas.
And if he does play, and the same thing happens to him as happened to Siemian?
It's really not the same thing as the old lady plasticouch. A better analogy would be: you bought a really nice new couch, brought it home, took in a few stray cats and then you're shocked they ripped up all the upholstery.
This isn't just a mediocre line. It's a terrible one, at least at the moment.
If it gets better and shows better protection later, then by all means, get Darnold work. But from what we've seen so far, you're just asking for trouble if he plays now.
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2019, 03:30:45 PM
And if he does play, and the same thing happens to him as happened to Siemian?
It's really not the same thing as the old lady plasticouch. A better analogy would be: you bought a really nice new couch, brought it home, took in a few stray cats and then you're shocked they ripped up all the upholstery.
This isn't just a mediocre line. It's a terrible one, at least at the moment.
If it gets better and shows better protection later, then by all means, get Darnold work. But from what we've seen so far, you're just asking for trouble if he plays now.
The offensive line is a product of its QB as well. A QB who reads the defense properly and adjusts the protection and/or the playcall accordingly will improve the line; I've not got much time for the "but Luke Falk" argument to defend Gase, but he certainly didn't do anything to help himself or his linemen.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2019, 03:38:21 PM
And if he does play, and the same thing happens to him as happened to Siemian?
It's really not the same thing as the old lady plasticouch. A better analogy would be: you bought a really nice new couch, brought it home, took in a few stray cats and then you're shocked they ripped up all the upholstery.
This isn't just a mediocre line. It's a terrible one, at least at the moment.
If it gets better and shows better protection later, then by all means, get Darnold work. But from what we've seen so far, you're just asking for trouble if he plays now.
We should hold Darnold out the rest of this year given the OL struggles.
Then next year, when we draft 2-3 rookies, we should sit him again while the kids develop.
Hopefully, by mid-2021, we can afford to play Darnold at quarterback again.
Post by: Badger on September 28, 2019, 07:25:31 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 28, 2019, 12:14:27 PM
I still stand by my point that we've never seen an OL "gel" into anything good during a season. Any time we had a legitimately good OL we knew it in week 1. Maybe this one can go from dumpster fire to mediocre, but it'll still have to be a priority in the off-season.Well, if the coaching staff is right, and it's mostly mental mistakes from the OL, then if those get cleaned up, that would fix a lot of the issues. That said, going from "dumpster fire to mediocre" is probably the best case scenario.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 30, 2019, 10:30:05 AM
But the OL that played the first 3 games is a red carpet rolled out to every pass-rushing threat they play against, and Darnold will get clobbered.
I'm not trying to cover Sam in bubble wrap, but WTF do we do if he suffers a catastrophic injury?
This is a lost year. I don't want it to result in a lost franchise QB as well.
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 30, 2019, 03:11:54 PM
If they can get to "mediocre" I'm fine with Darnold playing.
But the OL that played the first 3 games is a red carpet rolled out to every pass-rushing threat they play against, and Darnold will get clobbered.
I'm not trying to cover Sam in bubble wrap, but WTF do we do if he suffers a catastrophic injury?
This is a lost year. I don't want it to result in a lost franchise QB as well.
I'm fine with getting a few more weeks to see this line get their act together before putting our franchise spleen in jeopardy.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 30, 2019, 04:26:46 PM
I'm fine with getting a few more weeks to see this line get their act together before putting our franchise spleen in jeopardy.Okay, so if they don't get their act together, do you want to sit Darnold out all year, too?
Darnold needs to play if he's healthy. Now, if he's not healthy enough to play, we don't need to rush him back. But the quality of the offensive line shouldn't affect the decision to play Darnold.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 01, 2019, 06:27:30 AM
Okay, so if they don't get their act together, do you want to sit Darnold out all year, too?
Darnold needs to play if he's healthy. Now, if he's not healthy enough to play, we don't need to rush him back. But the quality of the offensive line shouldn't affect the decision to play Darnold.
I said a few weeks, not all year. He was just cleared for NON contact yesterday.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2019, 09:50:50 AM
I said a few weeks, not all year. He was just cleared for NON contact yesterday.I get the point everyone is trying to make that they're scared for Sam behind a bad OL. It's very warranted.
I just think that saying we should arbitrarily sit him a couple extra weeks just because we're scared of the OL is not prudent either. Darnold has proven nothing and needs to develop. If he's healthy, he needs to play. If he's not healthy, he shouldn't play. I just think if he's healthy, we can't just sit him. So if we fall to 0-7 without him, is that when we start to play him? It just seems like a slippery slope.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 01, 2019, 10:35:43 AM
I get the point everyone is trying to make that they're scared for Sam behind a bad OL. It's very warranted.
I just think that saying we should arbitrarily sit him a couple extra weeks just because we're scared of the OL is not prudent either. Darnold has proven nothing and needs to develop. If he's healthy, he needs to play. If he's not healthy, he shouldn't play. I just think if he's healthy, we can't just sit him. So if we fall to 0-7 without him, is that when we start to play him? It just seems like a slippery slope.
We're saying the same thing then. I just don't see the rush when we're already out of contention and the line is this bad. Make sure he's 100%, if you lose another game or two with Falk so be it.
Post by: reuben on October 05, 2019, 03:43:15 PM
Quote
[Schefter] Jets signed long snapper Thomas Hennessy to a four-year, $4.4 million contract extension that includes $1.15 million guaranteed and a $625,000 signing bonus, per source.
Lynch. Pin.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 05, 2019, 04:30:08 PM
Lynch. Pin.
We are paying our LS $1 million per year? Well at least we got that crucial deal done
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2019, 07:08:41 PM
We are paying our LS $1 million per year? Well at least we got that crucial deal done
The league minimum for a player that's been in the league for 4-6 seasons is something like $850K.
$1.1M isn't that much for a steady player that contributes on special teams.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 13, 2019, 10:43:48 PM
He's been pretty awful this year, but we're worse off without him.
---
Chuma Edoga was actually awesome today. He basically neutralized Demarcus Lawrence any time they went against each other.
Post by: Laxin on October 13, 2019, 10:48:56 PM
Kelvin Beachum may have seriously injured his ankle today. He's getting an MRI tomorrow.
He's been pretty awful this year, but we're worse off without him.
---
Chuma Edoga was actually awesome today. He basically neutralized Demarcus Lawrence any time they went against each other.
He was pretty bad last week with 4 pressures and 2 sacks, but its nice to see him have a bounce back game in his 2nd start vs one of the premiere edge rushers in the league.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 13, 2019, 10:57:24 PM
Kelvin Beachum may have seriously injured his ankle today. He's getting an MRI tomorrow.
He's been pretty awful this year, but we're worse off without him.
---
Chuma Edoga was actually awesome today. He basically neutralized Demarcus Lawrence any time they went against each other.
How is that even possible
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on October 14, 2019, 04:31:42 AM
How is that even possible
Having a QB behind center who can actually make some pre-snap reads and adjustments as well as call the protections goes a long way.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 14, 2019, 08:10:07 AM
Having a QB behind center who can actually make some pre-snap reads and adjustments as well as call the protections goes a long way.
I can't believe just how much of a difference Sam makes. I obviously knew he was good, but I didn't think he was that good yet. He is.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 14, 2019, 09:02:16 PM
Really looked like easily the best (or only competent) run blocker over past 2 weeks as well. Nice start for the Joe Douglas pickup
- Nania
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 15, 2019, 04:22:59 AM
Alex Lewis has been credited with allowing only one pressure over 77 pass blocking snaps in his first two starts with the Jets.It is unrealistic to want to get 5 new linemen next year. If Lewis and Edoga can go into next year as guys we can expect as starters, things would be much easier going into next year.
Really looked like easily the best (or only competent) run blocker over past 2 weeks as well. Nice start for the Joe Douglas pickup
- Nania
...
Just googled Lewis' contract. UFA after this season. That is mildly annoying.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 15, 2019, 07:16:49 AM
Post by: Laxin on October 15, 2019, 09:12:03 AM
Alex Lewis has been credited with allowing only one pressure over 77 pass blocking snaps in his first two starts with the Jets.
Really looked like easily the best (or only competent) run blocker over past 2 weeks as well. Nice start for the Joe Douglas pickup
- Nania
I wonder what they do when Osemele comes back. Hopefully winters finds his derriere in the bench
Post by: Johnny English on October 15, 2019, 09:35:43 AM
I wonder what they do when Osemele comes back. Hopefully winters finds his derriere in the bench
Winters is a far better player than Osemele.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 15, 2019, 09:50:50 AM
Quote
Sources: #Jets G Kelechi Osemele is having surgery to repair his shoulder. Rough news for a team coming off its first win. This dates back to the issues that first popped up a few weeks ago.
Welp
Post by: MBGreen on October 15, 2019, 09:59:34 AM
Welp
Alex Lewis is playing better anyway.
Post by: Miamipuck on October 15, 2019, 10:25:48 AM
Alex Lewis is playing better anyway.
Yeah it's a non event
Post by: Heismanberg on October 15, 2019, 10:29:37 AM
One of the best special teamers in the league
Post by: dcm1602 on October 15, 2019, 10:30:22 AM
Post by: Badger on October 15, 2019, 11:22:53 AM
Blake Countess takes Osemele’s spotWeird name
One of the best special teamers in the league
Post by: mj2sexay on October 15, 2019, 11:34:12 AM
Unfortunately, as per usual, the pickings look pretty slim in terms of O-Line on the FA market. Here's hoping Lewis and Edoga finish the year solid so we're comfortable re-signing Lewis and bringing them both back as starters because as of right now, this team still desperately needs help on the interior and I'd rather never see Beachum protecting Sam's blindside ever again.
Post by: reuben on October 16, 2019, 08:16:22 AM
Quote
[Manish] Jets exploring ways to improve their offensive line depth. They worked out two centers today, I’m told:
James Murray (Chiefs) and Ryan Crozier (Broncos)
Need to work Ryan Kalil the freak outta there.
Post by: MBGreen on October 18, 2019, 02:20:34 PM
Just cut this poopchute.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 18, 2019, 02:23:19 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 18, 2019, 02:27:00 PM
Osemele was cleared by 2 different doctors to play...but he refuses to practice, and wants surgery.
Just cut this poopchute.
When we signed him the Raiders fan I know told me that he was fairly sure that Osemele had lost interest in playing football and had become obsessive about his health. Maybe he was right.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 18, 2019, 02:37:40 PM
Post by: Jumbo on October 18, 2019, 02:51:31 PM
Interesting if true.
Post by: insanity on October 18, 2019, 03:01:36 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 18, 2019, 03:56:18 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 18, 2019, 04:01:27 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamLefkoe/status/1185268846304911362
Interesting if true.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/18/jets-kelechi-osemele-at-odds-over-treatment-of-shoulder-injury/
Suspending him for refusing to practise would be a ballsy move by the Jets if that tweet was true, the NFLPA are going to be all over it.
Post by: Johnny English on October 18, 2019, 04:49:29 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/djtk2c/rookie_rt_chuma_edoga_shuts_down_de_demarcus/
Post by: dcm1602 on October 18, 2019, 05:18:54 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamLefkoe/status/1185268846304911362
Interesting if true.
I know absolutely nothing about team medical structure. But does the team doctor actually work for the Jets? And does anyone believe he would intentionally sabatoge medical documents for some reason and risk his medical license?
There's literally no scenario I can imagine where the Jets are the only party managing and in charge of his medical records. This sounds like bullshit rumors of people talking out their asses
Post by: dcm1602 on October 18, 2019, 05:24:48 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 18, 2019, 05:31:43 PM
Manish Mehta
@MMehtaNYDN
Kelechi Osemele has been told by doctors that he needs shoulder surgery. My understanding is it’s a pain tolerance issue.
Jets threatening to fine/suspend him because they don’t think he needs surgery.
So Jets want to determine if a player is in enough pain to get surgery
Post by: Badger on October 18, 2019, 06:37:31 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamLefkoe/status/1185268846304911362Hopefully this is bullshit
Interesting if true.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 18, 2019, 08:45:39 PM
This surgery/non-surgery question, a second source explained, likely centers around Osemele’s $9.85 million base salary for this year and the unpaid $5.79 million of it remaining. The contract, which the Jets inherited when they traded a fifth-round pick to the Raiders for Osemele this offseason, no longer has any guaranteed money on it. But if Osemele had season-ending surgery and landed on the injured reserve, the Jets would be required to pay him his entire base salary (known as “Paragraph 5” on an NFL contract) — despite the fact that Osemele, according to the source, initially endured the injury for another team and entered this season aware of the ailment.
While the Jets could conceivably cut Osemele at any time on a contract lacking guaranteed money, he would be allowed to file for termination pay because his release occurred after Week 1, he is a vested veteran, and he has never filed for termination pay before. If the Jets fine Osemele for conduct detrimental to the team — which they plan to do if he doesn’t practice on Saturday — he would not be allowed to file for termination pay. Instead, after the fine, he would need to file a grievance. Forty percent of his cap hit ($4.2 million of $10.5) would be put on hold until said grievance is heard
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 19, 2019, 09:05:00 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 19, 2019, 03:58:19 PM
Brian Costello
The Jets fined Kelechi Osemele for conduct detrimental to the team after he did not practice today, per source. #nyj
4:41PM EDT
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 19, 2019, 04:21:17 PM
Post by: Pope on October 19, 2019, 04:35:58 PM
Post by: Laxin on October 19, 2019, 06:32:52 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 19, 2019, 06:54:42 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 20, 2019, 03:04:01 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 20, 2019, 08:34:40 AM
Not sure how old it is but I saw some rumor on twitter From about trying to trade Osemele for Jimmy Smith.
I imagine it's pure bullshit. The rumor was us giving Osemele for Smith AND draft picks from Baltimore. Sounds great, but there's no way Baltimore would do it
Post by: MBGreen on October 22, 2019, 11:16:40 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 23, 2019, 07:08:39 PM
What the freak
Post by: Heismanberg on October 23, 2019, 07:21:29 PM
https://twitter.com/coachpaulalex/status/1187052111714029568?s=21
What the freak
Winters is a bum
During one of the mic'd up segments, you could see him saying he couldn't hear Sam making the check. Sam apologized for not being loud enough.
Our entire OL needs to be thrown into the trash. Hopefully Edoga pans out...
Post by: Johnny English on October 23, 2019, 07:35:59 PM
Winters is a bum
During one of the mic'd up segments, you could see him saying he couldn't hear Sam making the check. Sam apologized for not being loud enough.
Our entire OL needs to be thrown into the trash. Hopefully Edoga pans out...
Yeah, I'm kinda done defending Winters. One good season playing between Mangold and Giacomini isn't carrying the weight any more.
Post by: Badger on October 23, 2019, 08:17:10 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 23, 2019, 08:24:46 PM
Ugh I forgot Giacomini existed.
He was entirely serviceable in 2015.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 24, 2019, 10:14:59 AM
Yeah, I'm kinda done defending Winters. One good season playing between Mangold and Giacomini isn't carrying the weight any more.
I honestly would watch him and think "What do I not see with this guy that others do?"
Post by: mj2sexay on October 24, 2019, 10:21:41 AM
Hopefully Edoga shows something.
Fire the rest of these bums into the freaking sun.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 24, 2019, 12:08:53 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 24, 2019, 02:16:37 PM
Winters is injured all to hell. Seems to always be. I think he's solid when healthy, but he never is.
Constantly missing assignments has nothing to do with his health
If he was blocking and getting his derriere kicked, that’s different. But he’s just not blocking anyone on multiple plays each game.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 24, 2019, 02:23:36 PM
Wanting to upgrade on Winters is just silly when we more urgently need to upgrade both tackles center and possibly the other guard position (to be determined based on Lewis job tryout for the rest of the season)
That said we save close to 8 million if we cut Winters after this season, so depending on the availability and on Lewis's "tryout" it could make sense to cut him. It might also be feasible to get someone comparable for cash savings. But regardless the lines a freaking excrement show. Thank God our GM is an OL kinda guy, hopefully he can do something about it.
I genuinely hope this GM goes overkill and completely builds this team around its line. Enoguh of this excrement. If Sam fails, this teams not winning a playoff game until the 2030s
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2019, 03:53:36 PM
Hopefully, Edoga establishes himself as a starter. Then maybe we either resign Lewis or bring back Winters to fill one other spot. That leaves three OL spots we will go into next season looking for new starters. And that might be best case scenario.
Post by: Johnny English on October 24, 2019, 04:05:40 PM
Osemele (lol), Winters, Harrison, Edoga and McDermott are the only OL under contract next season. I doubt Lewis would break the bank if we want to bring him back though.
Hopefully, Edoga establishes himself as a starter. Then maybe we either resign Lewis or bring back Winters to fill one other spot. That leaves three OL spots we will go into next season looking for new starters. And that might be best case scenario.
It appears that the coaching staff have immediately given up on Shell, but he showed some promising signs last season. At the moment I have more faith in Shell than I do the coaches.
Post by: insanity on October 24, 2019, 05:44:43 PM
It appears that the coaching staff have immediately given up on Shell, but he showed some promising signs last season. At the moment I have more faith in Shell than I do the coaches.
Could be a scheme thing. Shell isn't the most agile player, might not be a good fit in a zone blocking scheme?
Pulling at straws here
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 24, 2019, 07:30:06 PM
It appears that the coaching staff have immediately given up on Shell, but he showed some promising signs last season. At the moment I have more faith in Shell than I do the coaches.Shell also had that bad injury last year where some people thought it would affect him long-term. Maybe it has. It's not like the coaching staff was here prior to the injury.
Post by: Johnny English on October 26, 2019, 11:27:53 AM
Per Kelechi Osemele’s agents: Osemele’s surgery went well yesterday, but damage to shoulder was more extensive than anticipated. His representatives and NFLPA are now considering specific action against the Jets’ team doctor for violations of State Medical Board Regulations.
Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk
Post by: bojanglesman on October 26, 2019, 12:01:27 PM
Schefter:Not a good look for the Jets, but it is one, biased side of the story and the Jets can't really tell their side completely since they can't really discuss anything publicly about a player's medical information.
Per Kelechi Osemele’s agents: Osemele’s surgery went well yesterday, but damage to shoulder was more extensive than anticipated. His representatives and NFLPA are now considering specific action against the Jets’ team doctor for violations of State Medical Board Regulations.
Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk
Post by: dcm1602 on October 26, 2019, 12:18:46 PM
Not a good look for the Jets, but it is one, biased side of the story and the Jets can't really tell their side completely since they can't really discuss anything publicly about a player's medical information.
They can't give out medical information but they can certainly fight the PR battle instead of bending over
Post by: bojanglesman on October 26, 2019, 12:22:17 PM
They can't give out medical information but they can certainly fight the PR battle instead of bending overUnless their argument IS the medical history.
Post by: IATA on October 26, 2019, 01:32:45 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 26, 2019, 02:19:29 PM
Man, this dr and gase have really fucked the Jets over in this situation.
I'm 99% sure neither of them are the problem
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 28, 2019, 08:17:02 AM
Daniel Jeremiah
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 28, 2019, 09:41:16 AM
Quote
Jets OL may be one of the worst ever.
So far the Jets have rushed for 447 yds and lost 216 yds through sacks.
They're just the 2nd team in the SB era to run for less than 450 yds and lose 200+ yds through sacks over first 7 games.
The other was the 1991 Colts (went 1-15)
Quote
2019 Jets are the first team ever to allow more than 30 sacks and run for less than 500 yards through first 7 games
Nania
Post by: bojanglesman on October 28, 2019, 10:33:17 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 28, 2019, 10:39:56 AM
Bright spot: we have a GM who supposedly has an eye for OL. No jokes about Gase and offense please.
This is key, I think. He did what he could to try and address it in the June-September window that he had. It didn't work but at least we know that he knows what needs to be done. And he knows that we know that he knows.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 28, 2019, 10:49:06 AM
Bright spot: we have a GM who supposedly has an eye for OL. No jokes about Gase and offense please.
Yeah and Duff was supposed to get us competent Edge players after having a hand in finding JJ Watt and Mercilus
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 28, 2019, 10:56:30 AM
37
2019 sacks allowed (7 games):
34
Post by: MBGreen on October 28, 2019, 10:58:05 AM
2018 sacks allowed:
37
2019 sacks allowed (7 games):
34
we'll find a Gord in the 2020 draft
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 28, 2019, 11:12:22 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 28, 2019, 11:32:16 AM
I'm not anti-Douglas but before we go tooting his horn about his eye for OL talent, let's not forget he handed Kalil $8.4MM to come out of retirement. Harrison shows no dropoff when he comes in for him and was already under contract.
Right but I think he saw the need right away to upgrade the line so he took a chance. That was my point, it didn't work but he at least addressed it with limited options by the time he got in the job.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 28, 2019, 11:36:57 AM
Right but I think he saw the need right away to upgrade the line so he took a chance. That was my point, it didn't work but he at least addressed it with limited options by the time he got in the job.
He took an eight and half million dollar chance. Presumably, they gave Kalil a workout beforehand, no? What did he show there that he can't seem to do on the field to earn that payday? And how much better did he look there than Harrison had already shown?
Again, I'm not trying to knock Douglas. I'm just saying let's temper expectations.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 28, 2019, 11:53:22 AM
He took an eight and half million dollar chance. Presumably, they gave Kalil a workout beforehand, no? What did he show there that he can't seem to do on the field to earn that payday? And how much better did he look there than Harrison had already shown?
Again, I'm not trying to knock Douglas. I'm just saying let's temper expectations.
Kalil played a long time in the league, I think it was based on that. Again, silver lining to me is he saw and addressed a need on the O-line.
Hopefully there will be a top 5 OT when we get there this time, and we don't go D line again. As much as I love D line.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 28, 2019, 11:56:31 AM
I'm not anti-Douglas but before we go tooting his horn about his eye for OL talent, let's not forget he handed Kalil $8.4MM to come out of retirement. Harrison shows no dropoff when he comes in for him and was already under contract.
Kalil was a low risk dart throw. We had an all time bad center last year and didn’t land either of the 2 big C FA targets in the offseason. At very worst, Kalil is a smart player who should help Darnold learn. There really wasn’t much else Douglas could do to upgrade the line by the time he got here. It was worth the risk.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 28, 2019, 02:22:33 PM
Kalil played a long time in the league, I think it was based on that. Again, silver lining to me is he saw and addressed a need on the O-line.
Hopefully there will be a top 5 OT when we get there this time, and we don't go D line again. As much as I love D line.
Kalil was a low risk dart throw. We had an all time bad center last year and didn’t land either of the 2 big C FA targets in the offseason. At very worst, Kalil is a smart player who should help Darnold learn. There really wasn’t much else Douglas could do to upgrade the line by the time he got here. It was worth the risk.
I'm honestly not knocking Douglas. I'm just trying to make the point that so far, we don't know if he will do a good job building the offensive line because the only guy he's brought in so far is Kalil.
Post by: MBGreen on October 28, 2019, 02:26:03 PM
I'm honestly not knocking Douglas. I'm just trying to make the point that so far, we don't know if he will do a good job building the offensive line because the only guy he's brought in so far is Kalil.
Kalil was a quick fix attempt. I'm not sure i would hang that on Douglas's competence meter. I actually thought it was a good move at the time, it just didn't go our way.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 28, 2019, 02:26:26 PM
I'm honestly not knocking Douglas. I'm just trying to make the point that so far, we don't know if he will do a good job building the offensive line because the only guy he's brought in so far is Kalil.
He got Alex Lewis for a 7th round pick
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 28, 2019, 02:48:25 PM
Kalil was a quick fix attempt. I'm not sure i would hang that on Douglas's competence meter. I actually thought it was a good move at the time, it just didn't go our way.
I'm not sure how to express it more clearly, but I'm saying there currently is no competence meter. He hasn't had time to show us anything yet.
He got Alex Lewis for a 7th round pick
Fair enough. Basically another miniature-scale move. Still doesn't change my point that we need to see him actually draft some OL before we decide he can do it with any competency.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 28, 2019, 02:54:59 PM
A bigger concern is will the Jets really fire Gase, go out and spend huge money on a top coaching prospect, while still having to pay Gase AND Bowles their coaching salaries for next season? That's a lot of money, so contractually getting rid of Gase is pretty complicated
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 28, 2019, 03:01:17 PM
I'm honestly not knocking Douglas. I'm just trying to make the point that so far, we don't know if he will do a good job building the offensive line because the only guy he's brought in so far is Kalil.
I understand what you're saying, limited moves to evaluate, limited options to make a move. I just think it's good that the first thing he tried to fix was the O line, he's not wrong.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 28, 2019, 03:03:11 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on October 28, 2019, 03:06:23 PM
I hope Doug E Fresh doesn't get a boner for Trent Williams.
With a 1st round asking price I'd say it's fairly unlikely to happen.
A team like new England could be far more likely
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2019, 03:50:49 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 03, 2019, 04:20:06 PM
Brian Winters should be released before the team gets back to New Jersey
he truly looked like a piece of excrement today
Post by: Gorilla on November 04, 2019, 03:32:51 PM
Brian Winters should be released before the team gets back to New Jersey
Winters is the definition of a disposable-as-a-used-tampon JAG.
Watching him have the complete lack of self-awareness of his consistent, mediocre shittiness and actually yell at his QB on the sidelines after another clusterfuck of a play was maddening. Sam should have beat him to death with his giant mushroom-tip right there on the sideline.
Belichick or any coach/GM worth a damn would have cut him as soon as the game clock struck 0:00 after that display.
Cut Winters' dumb, retarded-tattoos-having-derriere and let him spend his last days bowhunting rabbits or whatever with his ugly newborn kid.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 05, 2019, 08:06:44 AM
Lol of course
Post by: mj2sexay on November 05, 2019, 08:35:37 AM
Winters is the definition of a disposable-as-a-used-tampon JAG.
Watching him have the complete lack of self-awareness of his consistent, mediocre shittiness and actually yell at his QB on the sidelines after another clusterfuck of a play was maddening. Sam should have beat him to death with his giant mushroom-tip right there on the sideline.
Belichick or any coach/GM worth a damn would have cut him as soon as the game clock struck 0:00 after that display.
Cut Winters' dumb, retarded-tattoos-having-derriere and let him spend his last days bowhunting rabbits or whatever with his ugly newborn kid.
This. I'd have cut his worthless derriere the second the game was over. As bad as he's been its amazing they obviously think Compton would be worse.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 05, 2019, 12:04:13 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 06, 2019, 03:59:11 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on November 06, 2019, 07:04:28 PM
I miss Spencer Long
Gfy
Post by: Johnny English on November 12, 2019, 04:04:45 PM
Post by: IATA on November 12, 2019, 04:48:28 PM
I'm curious what the NFLPA will say, considering there's already 2 complaints against our medical staff.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 12, 2019, 05:11:16 PM
Been playing all year with a full torn shoulder.
I'm curious what the NFLPA will say, considering there's already 2 complaints against our medical staff.
Isn’t this the second time he had a fucked up torn shoulder? Then after the first offseason surgery his play declined and he had his worst season of his career (until this year)
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2019, 10:51:42 AM
But that's some guts to fight through that all year until he just couldn't anymore.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 10:54:09 AM
I can't stand Winters, and never have.
But that's some guts to fight through that all year until he just couldn't anymore.
Agreed
I'm grateful for him being like him, and not some other scumbag guard we traded for
Post by: bojanglesman on November 13, 2019, 11:11:45 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2019, 11:26:20 AM
I still think Winters has played bad because of injuries and would be above average if healthy. But he can't stay healthy, so it doesn't matter
I see him look confused way too often. Maybe that's coaching, but the guy completely misses blocks at times as though it wasn't his job at all.
Post by: Pope on November 13, 2019, 02:30:43 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 13, 2019, 09:26:05 PM
I still think Winters has played bad because of injuries and would be above average if healthy. But he can't stay healthy, so it doesn't matter
Did he suffer a brain injury too?
He played like a complete moron this season
Post by: dcm1602 on November 13, 2019, 10:45:53 PM
Did he suffer a brain injury too?
He played like a complete moron this season
Not that I give a excrement about winters but. How much of an impact does the OL merry go round play in this?
I mean if the guy to your left and right has no freaking idea what they're doing, won't it make you look clueless even if you know the play?
Seems like our offense has a mountain of confusion
Post by: Miamipuck on November 14, 2019, 12:09:27 AM
Not that I give a excrement about winters but. How much of an impact does the OL merry go round play in this?Yes
I mean if the guy to your left and right has no freaking idea what they're doing, won't it make you look clueless even if you know the play?
Seems like our offense has a mountain of confusion
Post by: Johnny English on November 17, 2019, 09:07:06 PM
Sam with Beachum (v Giants and Washington) 8 TDs 2 INTs
Post by: Badger on November 18, 2019, 12:29:34 PM
Sam without Beachum(v Jags and Dolphins) 3 TDs 8 INTsWas Beachum playing in the Dallas game?
Sam with Beachum (v Giants and Washington) 8 TDs 2 INTs
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 18, 2019, 12:52:13 PM
Was Beachum playing in the Dallas game?
Yes, 63% (38) of the snaps.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 25, 2019, 03:46:20 PM
Beachum will be limited in practice after spraining his ankle.
Sam is being protected by a fence held together with krazy glue and duct tape.
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2019, 08:34:33 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2019, 10:33:22 PM
https://twitter.com/GrahamBarfield/status/1204600136623509506?s=20
A lot of his production is due to poor offensive line play, but his running style has also bit him in the derriere a lot this season.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 16, 2019, 08:53:43 PM
He is someone that has a legitimate shot to be the top tackle off the board.
Post by: delavan on December 18, 2019, 07:46:31 AM
https://twitter.com/allforgod_55/status/1207029257375014912
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 18, 2019, 08:01:32 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 18, 2019, 08:31:22 AM
My boi Mekhi Becton declared today.
He is someone that has a legitimate shot to be the top tackle off the board.
he's projected to go in the top 20. Did you coach this kid?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 18, 2019, 10:39:33 AM
he's projected to go in the top 20. Did you coach this kid?
No, I did not.
I did coach two players in this year’s class. One will certainly get drafted, the other has a shot to go in the later rounds.
Gage Cervenka is coming for the NFL Combine bench record.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 18, 2019, 02:38:57 PM
No, I did not.
I did coach two players in this year’s class. One will certainly get drafted, the other has a shot to go in the later rounds.
Gage Cervenka is coming for the NFL Combine bench record.
Heismanberg Gord Coach Confirmed
Post by: bojanglesman on December 18, 2019, 02:54:26 PM
Heismanberg Gord Coach ConfirmedJoe Douglas does.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191218/39507a4a9df6f27610522a5e012e9ab0.jpg)
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 18, 2019, 05:58:19 PM
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 18, 2019, 10:21:07 PM
I would love to read your opinion about this:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard
Before I got to whatever your point is, I saw Ed Oliver in IdL top 5 win rate. I love Quinnen Williams and he’s a great guy unfortunately through year 1 Josh Allen, Ed Oliver, and Brian Burns all would have been objectively better picks than him.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 18, 2019, 10:22:13 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 18, 2019, 10:34:07 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 18, 2019, 10:37:51 PM
Before I got to whatever your point is, I saw Ed Oliver in IdL top 5 win rate. I love Quinnen Williams and he’s a great guy unfortunately through year 1 Josh Allen, Ed Oliver, and Brian Burns all would have been objectively better picks than him.
Based on what? Sacks?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 18, 2019, 11:01:15 PM
Based on what? Sacks?
Sacks, pressures, the recurring fact that no matter how much we invest in our interior DL our defense never seems to take the next step. I carried the same opinion before the draft last year. In complete hindsight due to lack of faith in our current roster, I now think we could get similar/good enough production out of McClendon, Hank, Fatukasi, Shep, Philips, etc.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 19, 2019, 11:33:17 AM
Sacks, pressures, the recurring fact that no matter how much we invest in our interior DL our defense never seems to take the next step. I carried the same opinion before the draft last year. In complete hindsight due to lack of faith in our current roster, I now think we could get similar/good enough production out of McClendon, Hank, Fatukasi, Shep, Philips, etc.
Agreed
Our DL is always "good" at taking up blockers in the passing game, but there is no one behind them to take advantage of that and get to the offensive backfield. It's nice that this team is always good against the run, but this is a passing league, and they can never get to the guy throwing the ball.
The best "pass rusher" on this team is a safety. Before that, it was a nickel corner who was awful at being a corner. Draft EDGE. (But only after drafting a lot of OL)
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 19, 2019, 11:34:52 AM
Agreed
Our DL is always "good" at taking up blockers in the passing game, but there is no one behind them to take advantage of that and get to the offensive backfield. It's nice that this team is always good against the run, but this is a passing league, and they can never get to the guy throwing the ball.
The best "pass rusher" on this team is a safety. Before that, it was a nickel corner who was awful at being a corner. Draft EDGE. (But only after drafting a lot of OL)
We'll hopefully have Mosely and Williamson back.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 19, 2019, 11:42:52 AM
We'll hopefully have Mosely and Williamson back.I wonder if the Jets consider moving on from Williamson. Probably not. Last year of his deal, $8.5 million on the cap. We've had a large amount of time to see if there's anyone else on the roster that can replace him at a fraction of the cost. Cashman, Burgess, Hewitt. None of them are as good as Williamson, but he is replaceable.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 19, 2019, 12:09:58 PM
We'll hopefully have Mosely and Williamson back.
They're middle linebackers. I like both of them, but we need a traditional guy on the outside whose primary job is to break Brady.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 19, 2019, 12:16:42 PM
I wonder if the Jets consider moving on from Williamson. Probably not. Last year of his deal, $8.5 million on the cap. We've had a large amount of time to see if there's anyone else on the roster that can replace him at a fraction of the cost. Cashman, Burgess, Hewitt. None of them are as good as Williamson, but he is replaceable.
Honestly given the way Hewitt has played and the investment in Mosley, I think Williamson is as good as gone unless he either restructures or they determine that there's no other way to allocate the 8.5 that'd be as beneficial.
Post by: insanity on December 19, 2019, 12:51:20 PM
I wonder if the Jets consider moving on from Williamson. Probably not. Last year of his deal, $8.5 million on the cap. We've had a large amount of time to see if there's anyone else on the roster that can replace him at a fraction of the cost. Cashman, Burgess, Hewitt. None of them are as good as Williamson, but he is replaceable.
Why would we keep him? Our backups have been more than serviceable without Mosley. Dude is gone
Post by: bojanglesman on December 19, 2019, 12:54:38 PM
Why would we keep him? Our backups have been more than serviceable without Mosley. Dude is goneMaybe the Jets want more than "serviceable".
The other issue is him coming off injury.
Post by: Laxin on December 19, 2019, 01:32:39 PM
Maybe the Jets want more than "serviceable".
The other issue is him coming off injury.
I honestly think the production from the ILB has been a positive from this season. With a healthy Mosley, I would be okay with saving the 8.5M and having Cashman and Burgess man the other spot. Put that money towards a tackle, guard or WR.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2019, 01:46:02 PM
Not worth what we’re paying him
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 19, 2019, 03:33:43 PM
Before I got to whatever your point is, I saw Ed Oliver in IdL top 5 win rate. I love Quinnen Williams and he’s a great guy unfortunately through year 1 Josh Allen, Ed Oliver, and Brian Burns all would have been objectively better picks than him.
Quinnen not playing against Baltimore was, IMO, on of the reasons why the Ravens ran through our line at will. He's been eating a lot of double blocks and freeing other players to do their jobs. I know it's not exactly what we want to hear, but the potential is still there.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 30, 2019, 01:12:52 PM
“ PBWR = Pass Block Win Rate (rate player sustains pass blocks for 2.5s)
PRWR = Pass Rush Win Rate (rate player beats pass block within 2.5s)
These are ESPN stats that use @NextGenStats data.”
Jets finished 16th in the league in Pass Block Win Rate
Post by: MBGreen on December 30, 2019, 01:56:31 PM
https://twitter.com/sethwalder/status/1211717777494556672?s=21Waitasekent
“ PBWR = Pass Block Win Rate (rate player sustains pass blocks for 2.5s)
PRWR = Pass Rush Win Rate (rate player beats pass block within 2.5s)
These are ESPN stats that use @NextGenStats data.”
Jets finished 16th in the league in Pass Block Win Rate
I was told the oline fell off the nearest bus and learned how to play football on the way to the stadium.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 30, 2019, 02:15:53 PM
Waitasekent
I was told the oline fell off the nearest bus and learned how to play football on the way to the stadium.
Go ahead and try to objectively say with a straight face that the offensive line wasn't complete garbage this year.
Post by: Johnny English on December 30, 2019, 02:21:34 PM
Go ahead and try to objectively say with a straight face that the offensive line wasn't complete garbage this year.
Pass pro improved as the season went on, it was commented on in multiple game threads by Heis and by someone else who I forget (maybe Reuben?). Run blocking remained consistently garbage.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 30, 2019, 02:31:13 PM
Pass pro improved as the season went on, it was commented on in multiple game threads by Heis and by someone else who I forget (maybe Reuben?). Run blocking remained consistently garbage.
Pass pro improved until Edoga got hurt and then went right back in the tank. Brandon Shell got consistently beaten yesterday.
As bad as Edoga was in the run game, he was indeed passable when they went through the air.
They were horrible to start the year, and got to mediocre in one aspect of the game and remained absolutely atrocious in the other.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 30, 2019, 03:05:15 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 30, 2019, 05:21:09 PM
And for as much as everyone talks about how easy the schedule was, we also played teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Buffalo at the end which all have strong defenses.
They were the #3, 4 and 5 ranked defenses at the time we played them. Buffalo was in a driving rainstorm too.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 30, 2019, 06:58:24 PM
Go ahead and try to objectively say with a straight face that the offensive line wasn't complete garbage this year.
Data is data. Are you going to simply dismiss this source as trash as well since it doesn't fit your narrative?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 30, 2019, 07:02:34 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 30, 2019, 10:41:19 PM
I think everyone agrees that the OL leaves a lot to be desired. But the inherent issue here is that the problems run much deeper than the OL...it starts at the top. All the new o-lineman aren't going to mask the issue that we have a head coach that's been regressing year over year with his offense.
Our offensive line was the worst run blocking offensive line since 2002.
Historically bad.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 30, 2019, 10:50:35 PM
Data is data. Are you going to simply dismiss this source as trash as well since it doesn't fit your narrative?
K. You stick to your data from objectively shitty sources while anyone who watched 5 minutes of a freaking game this year can tell you that this was the worst offensive line this team has fielded since Boomer got his excrement pushed in under Kotite that first year.
No, you're right, they're the Hogs.
Post by: Johnny English on December 31, 2019, 01:14:03 AM
K. You stick to your data from objectively shitty sources while anyone who watched 5 minutes of a freaking game this year can tell you that this was the worst offensive line this team has fielded since Boomer got his excrement pushed in under Kotite that first year.I think you're getting yourself a little confused on sources here. This is from Football Outsiders, who grade the line as a unit in a fairly objective and reasonable fashion; you called them PFO which makes me think you were assuming it was PFF, who attempt to grade individual linemen which I think we all agree is a fool's errand.
No, you're right, they're the Hogs.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 31, 2019, 08:36:20 AM
Our offensive line was the worst run blocking offensive line since 2002.
Historically bad.
The year Houston gave up like 78 sacks with Carr at QB
Post by: mj2sexay on December 31, 2019, 08:36:48 AM
I think you're getting yourself a little confused on sources here. This is from Football Outsiders, who grade the line as a unit in a fairly objective and reasonable fashion; you called them PFO which makes me think you were assuming it was PFF, who attempt to grade individual linemen which I think we all agree is a fool's errand.
You are correct sir. my mistake.
Having said that, PBWR doesn't take into account how long a QB took to throw-which is central to any discussion of how an offensive line is holding up in the passing game.
And as repeatedly stated, this was the worst offensive line in the running game I can ever remember.
Again, I just want someone to tell me with a straight face that this offensive line was mediocre or better. It's be good for a laugh.
Post by: Pope on December 31, 2019, 08:53:03 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 31, 2019, 09:06:31 AM
I think Sam’s mobility and awareness make the pass protection seem better than it really was. Imagine it someone like Eli or Rivers were back there
Was thinking the same.
Post by: insanity on December 31, 2019, 09:25:13 AM
I think Sam’s mobility and awareness make the pass protection seem better than it really was. Imagine it someone like Eli or Rivers were back thereBased on how the stats are calculated I dont think that helps
Post by: Pope on December 31, 2019, 09:30:21 AM
Based on how the stats are calculated I dont think that helpsSorry I was in the pub
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 31, 2019, 10:16:38 AM
The point here is, even if we had the worst OL in the league (maybe we did!) there are several other teams out there with very bad OL’s that were comparable to ours performance wise. Those teams were able to overcome those issues to outscore and outgain us on offense. I don’t see how that doesn’t fall on coaching, especially when many of these teams also had to start backup QBs and several of them started worse QBs than Darnold for the entire season.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 31, 2019, 11:07:14 AM
The point here is, even if we had the worst OL in the league (maybe we did!) there are several other teams out there with very bad OL’s that were comparable to ours performance wise.
Did any other team in the NFL lose four starters and at least three replacements on their offensive line?
We lost a total of seven linemen.
Ryan Kalil
Kelechi Osemele
Brian Winters
Chuma Edoga
Alex Lewis
Tom Compton
Brent Qvale
Beachum also missed time. Brandon Shell apparently never recovered from his injury last year because he was terrible.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 31, 2019, 11:11:51 AM
Did any other team in the NFL lose four starters and three replacements on their offensive line?
We lost a total of seven starting linemen.
Not to mention we were almost certainly a bottom 5 OL before all the injuries.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 31, 2019, 11:26:07 AM
The line was awful. That's undeniable. But it had both games where they looked okay and games where guys looked like they didn't even know their assignments.
No amount of coaching was going to make it a top-15 line. But coaching did the line no favors either. Poor coaching plus a shallow talent pool equals a bottom-tier offense.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 31, 2019, 11:28:19 AM
16 games and 10 different offensive line units. You can't disguise that.
Post by: MBGreen on December 31, 2019, 11:30:56 AM
Because it's nearly impossible to coach an offensive line that has constant change. There is no continuity. It impacts the scheme drastically.Nothing is impossible if you believe in yourself
16 games and 10 different offensive line units. You can't disguise that.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 31, 2019, 11:36:34 AM
I think OL metrics, just like with PFF grades, have to be taken with a huge grain of salt. You can use them directionally as long as you don’t get too focused on the numerical grade.
The point here is, even if we had the worst OL in the league (maybe we did!) there are several other teams out there with very bad OL’s that were comparable to ours performance wise. Those teams were able to overcome those issues to outscore and outgain us on offense. I don’t see how that doesn’t fall on coaching, especially when many of these teams also had to start backup QBs and several of them started worse QBs than Darnold for the entire season.
Thank you
Post by: mj2sexay on December 31, 2019, 11:42:59 AM
Because it's nearly impossible to coach an offensive line that has constant change. There is no continuity. It impacts the scheme drastically.
16 games and 10 different offensive line units. You can't disguise that.
Hey now, don't come in here combating the narrative with facts.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 31, 2019, 11:47:04 AM
Nothing is impossible if you believe in yourself
Until a defensive tackle runs over your face.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 31, 2019, 11:51:03 AM
Because it's nearly impossible to coach an offensive line that has constant change. There is no continuity. It impacts the scheme drastically.
16 games and 10 different offensive line units. You can't disguise that.
I’m not going to argue that. Hopefully we finally have a FO and CS that will be able to fix it.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 31, 2019, 01:02:30 PM
Quote
https://mobile.twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1211798131098161152?s=21
Big if true.
Post by: reuben on December 31, 2019, 02:37:04 PM
Big if true.
Gadzooks, Miami. And yet they produced the 12th best passing offense and a 1200 yard receiver despite their leading running back topping out at 201 yards.
I'm tempted to stretch this into a Gase criticism but we all know that this is simply the Ryan Fitzpatrick Cycle in effect.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 31, 2019, 02:53:31 PM
Gadzooks, Miami. And yet they produced the 12th best passing offense and a 1200 yard receiver despite their leading running back topping out at 201 yards.Fitz was unbelievable this year. He played like an elite QB. Dude was running for his life every play but still making plays. And he had no running game.
I'm tempted to stretch this into a Gase criticism but we all know that this is simply the Ryan Fitzpatrick Cycle in effect.
Fitz is a QB with a high ceiling and a very low floor. This was a ceiling year.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 31, 2019, 03:27:38 PM
Fitz was unbelievable this year. He played like an elite QB. Dude was running for his life every play but still making plays. And he had no running game.
Fitz is a QB with a high ceiling and a very low floor. This was a ceiling year.
Fitzpatrick cost Miami Joe Burrow.
Post by: reuben on December 31, 2019, 03:28:59 PM
Fitzpatrick cost Miami Joe Burrow.
Eh, they can still get him.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 31, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
Eh, they can still get him.
How? Burrow going #1 overall to Cincinnati is as close to a lock as it gets.
Post by: MBGreen on December 31, 2019, 03:38:15 PM
How? Burrow going #1 overall to Cincinnati is as close to a lock as it gets.Miami has enough draft ammo to move up if Cincy is willing to listen
Post by: Heismanberg on December 31, 2019, 03:43:05 PM
Miami has enough draft ammo to move up if Cincy is willing to listen
They would be stupid to pass on a franchise QB.
Burrow makes them relevant again. He is Ohio's favorite son right now.
Post by: MBGreen on December 31, 2019, 03:47:58 PM
They would be stupid to pass on a franchise QB.Ohio’s favorite son is Baker Mayfield with honorable mention to John Tortorella
Burrow makes them relevant again. He is Ohio's favorite son right now.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 31, 2019, 03:52:07 PM
Fitz was unbelievable this year. He played like an elite QB. Dude was running for his life every play but still making plays. And he had no running game.It was an odd numbered year. It's what he does. He'll get an overpriced bridge QB deal this offseason and throw 25 INTs in 2020
Fitz is a QB with a high ceiling and a very low floor. This was a ceiling year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 31, 2019, 04:02:24 PM
Ohio’s favorite son is Baker Mayfield with honorable mention to John TortorellaMaybe 5 months ago Baker was Ohio's favorite son, but then this season happened.
Burrow is a lock to go to Cincinnati. Unless Cincy somehow thinks one of the other quarterbacks are better than Burrow, he is going there.
This year by Burrow may be the best season I've ever seen by a college quarterback, especially when you look at how this year can translate to the next level. You always have to be a little hesitant when a guy only had one great year, but there is no way Cincy isn't bringing Burrow back to Ohio.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 31, 2019, 05:17:47 PM
It was an odd numbered year. It's what he does. He'll get an overpriced bridge QB deal this offseason and throw 25 INTs in 2020
Football's Bret Saberhagen.
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2020, 06:14:22 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on January 07, 2020, 08:26:42 AM
(https://i.redd.it/fs8iubzsa9941.png)
Just scheme around it doe.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2020, 02:58:55 PM
Just scheme around it doe.I was told it was the same offensive line as 2018, maybe even a better offensive line.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 07, 2020, 03:19:29 PM
I was told it was the same offensive line as 2018, maybe even a better offensive line.
You were told by no one that it was a better offensive line
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 07, 2020, 03:22:03 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 07, 2020, 03:23:30 PM
Can't wait until our offense finishes 30th overall next with a new OL, and the narrative from the Gase supporters will be "SEE OUR OFFENSE GOT BETTER, WITH THE REVAMPED OL!"
I like how most of you guys' complaints are based on predictions.
"Wait til we get swept by the Dolphins", "Wait til we finish 5-11".
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 07, 2020, 03:33:01 PM
I like how most of you guys' complaints are based on predictions.
"Wait til we get swept by the Dolphins", "Wait til we finish 5-11".
I predicted that Gase would run a excrement tier offense, just like he did every year he was in Miami. Complaint and prediction both true, apparently somehow possible
Post by: mj2sexay on January 07, 2020, 03:33:58 PM
Can't wait until our offense finishes 30th overall next with a new OL, and the narrative from the Gase supporters will be "SEE OUR OFFENSE GOT BETTER, WITH THE REVAMPED OL!"
excrement strawman is excrement.
I don't want to speak for IS or Smalls but I'm pretty confident in saying that if they revamp the offensive line, stay healthy and finish 30th in total offense next year we'll want him run out of town.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 07, 2020, 03:49:26 PM
excrement strawman is excrement.
I don't want to speak for IS or Smalls but I'm pretty confident in saying that if they revamp the offensive line, stay healthy and finish 30th in total offense next year we'll want him run out of town.
Depends to me if we win games, I'm not firing someone (or keeping them) over stats. We play in the wind, the rain, if we're ahead we might run the clock. Win games, don't care how.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2020, 04:16:15 PM
You were told by no one that it was a better offensive lineI should have said - I was told it was the same personnel as the previous season. Not that people said the line was better.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2020, 04:18:03 PM
excrement strawman is excrement.Almost certainly, yes. There are always other potential mitigating factors, but if the offense is as bad next year as it was this year, it will be hard to defend Gase.
I don't want to speak for IS or Smalls but I'm pretty confident in saying that if they revamp the offensive line, stay healthy and finish 30th in total offense next year we'll want him run out of town.
I wouldn't have had a problem if they fired Gase this year. But the problems were far deeper than Gase.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 07, 2020, 05:11:29 PM
I like how most of you guys' complaints are based on predictions.
"Wait til we get swept by the Dolphins", "Wait til we finish 5-11".
Incorrect. My complaint is that our offense ranked dead last under this clown and we had better production under Jeremy Bates, who's not even in the league anymore.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 07, 2020, 05:19:00 PM
Incorrect. My complaint is that our offense ranked dead last under this clown and we had better production under Jeremy Bates, who's not even in the league anymore.
The one on this page is that we're going to finish 30th in offense next year with a new line. Technically two predictions.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 07, 2020, 05:49:43 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 07, 2020, 09:16:42 PM
You were told by no one that it was a better offensive line
At least not after September you weren't once it was quite clear this was about to be an epic disaster
Post by: mj2sexay on January 07, 2020, 09:29:39 PM
(https://aidsinfo.nih.gov/images/factsheet/TreatmentOP_700pix.jpg)
Easily the funniest thing you've ever posted.
Post by: Miamipuck on January 07, 2020, 11:18:34 PM
You were told by no one that it was a better offensive lineyeah I don't remember that horseshit narrative.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2020, 05:25:16 AM
Easily the funniest thing you've ever posted.I thought that was an ad on tapatalk
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 08, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
The one on this page is that we're going to finish 30th in offense next year with a new line. Technically two predictions.
...don't forget the third which is that you will still support Gase.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 08, 2020, 10:30:18 AM
...don't forget the third which is that you will still support Gase.
I'm undecided on Gase. Mid year I'd have been ok with him being fired, second half was way better so I'm in the wait and see camp. Difference with me is I'm not pretending to know what will happen next year, I want to....wait....for it and...see....what actually happens. What happens in reality, not hyperventilating predictions from haters dug into their positions.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 08, 2020, 10:40:00 AM
I'm undecided on Gase. Mid year I'd have been ok with him being fired, second half was way better so I'm in the wait and see camp. Difference with me is I'm not pretending to know what will happen next year, I want to....wait....for it and...see....what actually happens. What happens in reality, not hyperventilating predictions from haters dug into their positions.
Of course no one truly knows what's going to happen next year...BUT his track record and coaching history is enough of a baseline for many folks here to draw conclusions from.
His offenses in Miami ranked in the bottom third every year. He was dead last this year.
I've SEEN enough
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 08, 2020, 10:50:57 AM
Of course no one truly knows what's going to happen next year...BUT his track record and coaching history is enough of a baseline for many folks here to draw conclusions from.
His offenses in Miami ranked in the bottom third every year. He was dead last this year.
I've SEEN enough
So don't watch next year, not sure what else to tell you. I'm a Jet fan, hoping it works out, we'll see. I've seen better and I've seen worse.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2020, 11:03:38 AM
So don't watch next year, not sure what else to tell you. I'm a Jet fan, hoping it works out, we'll see. I've seen better and I've seen worse.How do you see worse when you’re already dead last?
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 08, 2020, 11:15:55 AM
How do you see worse when you’re already dead last?
Been a Jet fan for 45 years, how much time you got? Seen much worse than 7-9.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Been a Jet fan for 45 years, how much time you got? Seen much worse than 7-9.
that 7-9 record is smoke and mirrors.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 08, 2020, 12:14:42 PM
that 7-9 record is smoke and mirrors.
You are what your record says you are.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2020, 12:19:50 PM
You are what your record says you are.
According to Chris Ballard...a 7-9 record is a shitstain on his resume.
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2020, 01:11:43 PM
You are what your record says you are.Rex Ryan was 45-50 with the Jets and 18-30 in his last three seasons.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 08, 2020, 01:13:28 PM
Rex Ryan was 45-50 with the Jets and 18-30 in his last three seasons.
Yup. Which means he was 24-14 in his first two years, which means we knew he could win. All time leader in franchise playoff wins, all on the road.
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2020, 01:15:22 PM
Yup. Gotta look at the whole record, though, not cherry pick. All time leader in franchise playoff wins, all on the road.His record was 45-50, that's not cherry picking. I'm not looking to rehash the Rex argument, only make the point that more needs to be considered than just the record.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 08, 2020, 01:17:42 PM
His record was 45-50, that's not cherry picking. I'm not looking to rehash the Rex argument, only make the point that more needs to be considered than just the record.
Yeah, just fixed my post, you did post the complete record. Guy proved he could win, you want to keep those guys because once you get back in the search pool you end up with what we've had since. If he was 45-50 with six mediocre seasons and no playoffs it's another story.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2020, 01:24:38 PM
Yeah, just fixed my post, you did post the complete record. Guy proved he could win, you want to keep those guys because once you get back in the search pool you end up with what we've had since. If he was 45-50 with six mediocre seasons and no playoffs it's another story.Well...he had another chance with the Bills and blew that too.
So, he proved that he couldn’t win anymore with us, and then with another team.
Things change over time, and so do coaches.
Post by: Johnny English on January 08, 2020, 01:34:29 PM
Yeah, just fixed my post, you did post the complete record. Guy proved he could win, you want to keep those guys because once you get back in the search pool you end up with what we've had since. If he was 45-50 with six mediocre seasons and no playoffs it's another story.Ok cool, so we're agreed that you are not just what your record says you are but also worthy of examining some slightly less macro factors as well?
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 08, 2020, 01:38:11 PM
Well...he had another chance with the Bills and blew that too.
So, he proved that he couldn’t win anymore with us, and then with another team.
Things change over time, and so do coaches.
Rosters change, Idzik destroyed ours after we made a run and guys got old, it happens. Buffalo hadn't won for 20 years before Rex got there and he didn't stay two years, means nothing. A coach can either win in the league or he can't, Rex showed you he can win, of course you need players.
That's why I didn't want to fire Rex, because I've been around long enough to remember past eras like the one we've had since Rex. Saw it coming across the bridge. Don't confuse my defense of Rex with Gase, Rex proved he could win, Gase has not. Hasn't proved he can't either, but not the same as my thoughts on Rex.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 08, 2020, 01:39:48 PM
You guys sometimes act like IS and I are these staunch Gase defenders, which relatively speaking to the rest of the board-we are. Give me a better alternative, tell me Jim Harbaugh or Tomlin or a bonafide upgrade is walking through that door and watch me change my tune.
As far as Rex goes, his hubris and pride got in the way of making a sound business and career decision. Had he waited, not rushed into a bad Bills job with brand new ownership (and talked his way out of that job), he would've been in demand during last years coaching cycle and would most certainly have gotten consideration for some of the open positions this year. Rare is that third chance. But I don't necessarily believed that he proved he couldn't win with us anymore. The rosters here his last two years were a nightmare and he got the first team to 8 wins. But what's done is done.
I still maintain if the Falcons hire him and not Quinn they never blow that game to the Pats.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 08, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
Ok cool, so we're agreed that you are not just what your record says you are but also worthy of examining some slightly less macro factors as well?
For the most part you are. Gase has been here one year, so we have one 7-9 to look at. With Rex you see a clear distinction from when we had players and when we didn't, but again it's all defined by the record for better or worse.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2020, 02:23:18 PM
Rosters change, Idzik destroyed ours after we made a run and guys got old, it happens. Buffalo hadn't won for 20 years before Rex got there and he didn't stay two years, means nothing. A coach can either win in the league or he can't, Rex showed you he can win, of course you need players.Actually...Rex proved he could lose, with 2 different teams.
That's why I didn't want to fire Rex, because I've been around long enough to remember past eras like the one we've had since Rex. Saw it coming across the bridge. Don't confuse my defense of Rex with Gase, Rex proved he could win, Gase has not. Hasn't proved he can't either, but not the same as my thoughts on Rex.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 09, 2020, 12:10:49 PM
If there's one thing the New York Jets know about quarterback Sam Darnold, it's that he has the mental toughness to survive the NFL crucible. He proved it to the new regime in 2019, shaking off mononucleosis, a midseason slump and the fallout from the "ghost" game against the New England Patriots. He was mocked in two stadiums that shamefully played the "Ghostbusters" theme song, but he showed uncommon grit for a 22-year-old.
"Talk about toughness and talk about adversity," Jets general manager Joe Douglas said. "Not many guys faced more adversity than Sam."
Douglas said it was "really impressive" to see how Darnold handled it, reinforcing the organization's belief that he has the right makeup to play quarterback in New York. Now comes the tricky part: As he looks toward his third season, the objective is to raise his tangibles as high as his intangibles. In other words, it's time to produce on the field.
While the basic data suggests the 2018 first-round pick made modest improvements in his second season, there's still not enough evidence on paper to say he will become an elite player at his position. There's a lot of stuff to be excited about, but he also has areas where he showed regression.
That Darnold was drafted by a perennial loser in the Jets exacerbated the typical growing pains. Unlike Baltimore's Lamar Jackson, Kansas City's Patrick Mahomes and Houston's Deshaun Watson, three of the four quarterbacks still alive in the AFC playoffs, Darnold didn't walk into a winning program with coaching stability. He has had it tougher than those peers, but the Jets' hope is that a full offseason with coach Adam Gase will allow him to take a big step in 2020.
"It will be huge," Darnold said. "Just stability and just continuing to build off what we've done this year, it will be huge."
Anyone can see he took small-to-medium jumps in the major statistical categories -- touchdowns, interceptions and completion percentage -- but sometimes you have to dig deeper to find answers. With help from ESPN Stats & Information and NFL Next Gen Stats, this is a next-level look at the positives and negatives from 2019 -- and a glimpse into what lies ahead:
Most encouraging signs
The biggest improvement for Darnold was his short-range accuracy.
As a rookie, he completed a league-low 59.1% of his passes in the 0-to-10-yard range (air yards), well below the NFL standard. It's hard to win games at that number. In 2019, his percentage soared nearly eight points to 66.9. That's still not a great number -- he should be in the 70s -- but it certainly showed the old-school cynics that, yes, a quarterback can improve his accuracy.
No doubt, Darnold benefited this season from the additions of wide receiver Jamison Crowder and running back Le'Veon Bell, proven short-area targets who combined for 144 receptions. Based on passer rating, Darnold went from 31st to 19th from this passing distance -- ratings of 73.7 to 86.1.
He made a similar jump against zone defenses (all distances). This was a bugaboo in 2018, as 10 of his 15 interceptions came against zone coverage. He ranked 32 out of 33 qualifying passers with a 71.5 rating. A lot of rookies struggle against zone because the coverages are more sophisticated than in college.
This season, Darnold did a better job of reading defenses and it showed. Only four of his 13 interceptions came against zone and his passer rating improved to 91.2 (19th). This isn't to say he has mastered the art of deciphering coverages. In the Jets' season finale, he was having trouble with the Buffalo Bills' schemes and asked Gase to spread out the defense by calling four-wide packages. The adjustment was made, and it gave him a cleaner look than before.
Statistically, Darnold also showed modest progression as a passer under pressure, although he still has a long way to go. He went from a horrible 33.2 rating to 48.3, which ranked 25th. He threw seven interceptions, tied with Los Angeles Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers for most in the league.
Considering the upheaval on the offensive line (nine different starting combinations), it's easy to assume Darnold faced constant pressure -- but that's not accurate. He was pressured on 29.5% of his dropbacks, virtually the same rate as in 2018.
Once again, his most memorable plays came outside the pocket, where he showed marked improvement. (Remember the dazzling touchdown pass to Crowder against the Baltimore Ravens?) His rating went from 54.0 to 78.0. Darnold's best attribute is his ability to make off-schedule plays, but you can't run an entire offense that way. What matters most is how a quarterback performs in the pocket.
Darnold made a negligible jump in that area (82.7 rating to 85.7) but not enough to satisfy Gase.
"That's something that we're going to keep working on, that's something that we can get better at," Gase said. "Sometimes he'll kind of escape the pocket on his own instead of working through the progression. That's sometimes what a young quarterback will do. I do think there were times where he did do a good job of staying in there and working through his progression in the pocket, but that's something that we can definitely work on this offseason."
Sam Darnold's 2018 vs. 2019
A statistical look at the New York Jets quarterback and his two NFL seasons:
YEAR W-L CMP/ATT PCT. YDS YPA TD INT RATING QBR
2018 4-9 239/414 57.5 2,865 6.9 17 15 77.6 45.5
2019 7-6 273/441 61.9 3,024 6.9 19 13 84.3 41.5
Areas of concern
Quite simply, Darnold has to be better in the red zone. He threw four interceptions inside the 20 (tied with Chicago's Mitchell Trubisky for the league high) and ranked 32nd in passer rating (65.0).
No team can thrive when its quarterback is making critical mistakes in scoring territory. Remember the wet-bar-of-soap pass that was intercepted near the Miami Dolphins' goal line?
The numbers represent a significant drop-off for Darnold, who was surprisingly efficient as a rookie -- only one interception and a 95.7 rating. Gase has to take some of the blame because there was no offensive balance in the red zone, as the Jets ran a league-low 32 times. He relied too heavily on Darnold to make plays, causing him to press and make questionable decisions.
Darnold also suffered slippage in his medium-range accuracy (11-to-20 air yards), going from a 60.7 completion rate to 52.3. This one is hard to figure, especially since there was a small uptick in his percentage on long-range passes (21 yards or more). The decline could've been personnel-related, as the Jets lacked a consistent medium-range presence. It was an area where tight end Chris Herndon and wide receiver Quincy Enunwa, both limited to one game apiece because of injuries, would have helped.
Another puzzling decline was Darnold's performance against man-to-man coverage. Nine of his 13 interceptions came against some form of "man" coverage, basically a reversal of his 2018 trend. Weird, right? Specifically, he struggled against "Man-1" (one safety in the middle of the field), throwing six interceptions and five touchdowns.
Young quarterbacks usually fare better versus man than zone because it's a clean look -- i.e., less thinking -- but Darnold went against the grain in 2019. He'd probably help himself with better footwork. Despite constant emphasis by coaches, he still has a tendency to get sloppy with his feet, failing to set them to create a base. Sometimes he gets away with it, sometimes he doesn't.
For the second straight season, Darnold struggled against the blitz, finishing 32nd in passer rating
Looking ahead
After some R&R, Darnold will begin his self-scouting process, breaking down cut-ups of every play from the season. He's also planning to work again with his California-based quarterback trainer, Jordan Palmer. By rule, he and Gase aren't allowed to meet until mid-April, when the offseason program commences.
"There are so many different ways you can break it down and see where my weaknesses were, and work on those," Darnold said of his tape study.
He has a lot of positives to build on, but his game needs polish. The biggest thing is developing his pocket presence, which means learning to be patient but not to the point where he's hesitant to improvise outside the pocket. It's a delicate balance, one that requires reps to master.
The front office can do its part by improving the pass protection. Over the past two seasons, only five quarterbacks attempted more passes under pressure than Darnold, whose growth could be stunted behind a porous offensive line.
The Jets' 2020 schedule looks formidable and includes a handful of outstanding pass-rushing teams -- the Los Angeles Rams, San Francisco 49ers, Kansas City Chiefs and Denver Broncos among the non-divisional foes. The message is clear: Hire some new bodyguards for Darnold.
The organization is committed to Darnold, who has two years remaining on his rookie contract plus a team option for 2022. He played at a higher level toward the end of the season, after Gase streamlined the offense, and now they hope it can be a springboard into 2020.
"Sam and Adam formed a really strong relationship of open and honest conversation," Douglas said, "and I think you saw that kind of blossom through the end of the year."
Let's stop using the OL as the crutch to support Gase the clown.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2020, 01:39:58 PM
They have absolutely no impact on the running game
This might seem like I’m saying YDKF (because I am). Gase got the ball out of Darnold’s hands faster (he had to) which impacts that stupid derriere pressure rate statistic.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2020, 01:40:49 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2020, 02:06:18 PM
QB made a bad decision? Must be the coach’s fault!The coach is accountable to correct it. So if the bad decisions are being repeated, it’s on Gase to fix it. After all, wasnt gase’s prime directive to develop Darnold? He’s responsible for his decision-making
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 09, 2020, 03:26:30 PM
I blame Gase for his fair share of things, but sometimes you have to remember "Coaches coach, but players play the game."
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 09, 2020, 03:27:44 PM
Post by: Pope on January 09, 2020, 03:29:53 PM
Heismanberg makes a good point regarding the running game. Someone posted it around here somewhere yesterday that the Jets ranked last in yards before contact. I harped for weeks that Bell couldn't be judged on his performance this year because the dude was being hit right away all the time. That failure of the run game--thanks to awful blocking--affects the passing game and playcalling. Again, I don't want to defend Gase, but not every single thing is his fault.LJF’s Post was Gase’s fault. He should have coached him not type in haste
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2020, 03:30:28 PM
Heismanberg makes a good point regarding the running game. Someone posted it around here somewhere yesterday that the Jets ranked last in yards before contact. I harped for weeks that Bell couldn't be judged on his performance this year because the dude was being hit right away all the time. That failure of the run game--thanks to awful blocking--affects the passing game and playcalling. Again, I don't want to defend Gase, but not every single thing is his fault.
Worst run blocking OL since Houston in 2002
We were historically bad up front
Gase schemed the ball out fast to protect Sam, that’s a huge reason why the pressure rate is that low
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2020, 03:33:00 PM
The coach is accountable to correct it. So if the bad decisions are being repeated, it’s on Gase to fix it. After all, wasnt gase’s prime directive to develop Darnold? He’s responsible for his decision-making
No, he’s not. He is responsible for putting him position to succeed but he cannot make reads and decisions for him, especially if plays breakdown. It’s absurd to suggest the coach is responsible for a QBs decisions.
Gase got on his derriere for not throwing it away and that was somewhat corrected, but Sam will never shake the gunslinger mentality.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 09, 2020, 03:44:21 PM
Worst run blocking OL since Houston in 2002
That is UNBELIEVABLE considering how bad that offensive line was.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 21, 2020, 12:44:51 PM
10. T ANTHONY CASTONZO
One of the most underrated players in the league, Castonzo has been consistently good throughout his career, posting above-average grades between 76.9 and 83.4 in every season dating back to 2012. He’s one of the best pass-protecting left tackles in the league — his 84.4 grade ranked eighth last year, and he had the fifth-highest grade in “true pass sets” (think pure dropback passing situations). Castonzo is less effective — but still solid — in the run game; he finished 16th among tackles with a 70.2 run-blocking grade last season while flashing his ability to play in any scheme. Heading into next season at 32 years old, Castonzo is one of the most valuable tackles in the league.
13. T JACK CONKLIN
Conklin is the best right tackle on the market, and he’s coming off a regular season which he finished 12th overall among tackles in PFF grade (78.3) and fifth in run-blocking grade (81.0). Conklin has some issues in pass protection, as his pass-blocking grade ranks just 49th on true pass sets over the last two seasons, and he’s on the higher end among offensive tackles receiving help (double teams, chip blocks, etc). Still, Conklin is a versatile run blocker who finished with the No. 6 grade on zone runs and the No. 14 mark on gap runs. He’s been one of the better right tackles in the league since being drafted in the first round in 2016.
14. G BRANDON SCHERFF
After playing over 1,000 snaps in each of his first two seasons, Scherff has battled injuries over the last three years, missing 15 games along the way. When healthy, he’s been among the league’s best, grading between 75.0 and 81.4 in all but one of his five NFL seasons. In 2019, Scherff finished with the No. 28 overall pass-blocking grade (72.0), but his No. 15 ranking on true pass sets bodes well for a resurgence next season. In the run game, Scherff ranked in the top six when blocking for both gap and zone schemes, and he is a fit for any NFL team looking to upgrade on the interior, though recent injuries are certainly a concern.
16. G JOE THUNEY
It’s been a story of continuous improvement for Thuney since entering the league in 2016, and he finished the 2019 regular season with the No. 5 overall grade among guards (77.4). Thuney has had his best year in pass protection, allowing just 16 pressures on 693 attempts, good for the third-highest pass-blocking grade in the league (87.4). A converted college offensive tackle, Thuney struggled against more powerful players early in his career, but he’s developed nicely into one of the best all-around guards in the league.
39. T ANDREW WHITWORTH
With a position rank almost the same as his age, there’s no doubt Andrew Whitworth has finally started to decline. But given that he was arguably the best left tackle in the game when he was at his best, he still has a lot to offer a team willing to take a short-term rental while they figure out their long-term future on the offensive line. Whitworth just posted his lowest overall PFF grade since the 2008 season (72.8) but still had a pass-blocking grade of 84.7 that was still good enough to rank seventh among tackles. He also was beaten for just one sack all season. Whitworth’s All-Pro days may be long behind him, but there are many teams that could use him as a significant upgrade while they wait for a young player to develop.
41. LT JASON PETERS
Somehow Jason Peters is still plying his trade at an extremely high level despite approaching 38 years of age. That age obviously makes Peters a short-term option for prospective teams, and Peters also comes with a significant injury history and the prospect that he might not last 16 games in any given season. But he is still an impressive figure when he is on the field, and he ended the 2019 season with an overall PFF grade of 82.8 after allowing 25 total pressures on the season. Peters won’t be receiving many multi-year offers, but he could provide a very useful short-term fix for a team struggling to find answers on the offensive line.
45. T D.J. HUMPHRIES
Humphries battled injuries early in his career, only flashing the ability that made him a 2015 first-rounder, but he is coming off his best effort as a pass blocker. He gave up only 30 pressures on 677 attempts in 2019, just two more pressures than he allowed in 2018 on 335 fewer opportunities. It was Humphries' first season grading below 72.0 in the run game, but he could be the classic “late bloomer” along the offensive line as he heads into his age-26 season.
61. OT BRYAN BULAGA
74. G GRAHAM GLASGOW
82. C CONNOR MCGOVERN
Post by: Miamipuck on January 21, 2020, 01:41:54 PM
Ok cool, so we're agreed that you are not just what your record says you are but also worthy of examining some slightly less macro factors as well?
(https://cdn.the-scientist.com/assets/articleNo/33561/iImg/8290/734224a6-472a-4639-8917-3d9e91e1703a-venusflytrap.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on January 29, 2020, 05:38:41 AM
in on #Titans Jack Conklin. 26 Yrs Old. If not tagged, will be Jets biggest pursuit outside resigning their own FAs. A deal with Brian Poole during exclusivity period would pave way for Conklin signing... that’s how the business works!I don't know who Chad Forbes is or if he knows anything, but it sounds good.
Post by: Badger on January 29, 2020, 06:40:16 AM
Chad Forbes: #JetsWhat does Poole have to do with it?
I don't know who Chad Forbes is or if he knows anything, but it sounds good.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 29, 2020, 06:59:03 AM
What does Poole have to do with it?
We’re signing Conklin to play nickel
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2020, 07:39:41 AM
What does Poole have to do with it?
Presumably because if we don't resign Poole we're going to have catastrophic freaking problems at the corner position and our GMs/cap space would need to spend an extra bit of TLC there.
We’re fairly weak when it comes to our cap position and corner + wideout could limit our ability to make Conklin the highest paid RT in the league /history
Post by: mj2sexay on January 29, 2020, 10:47:32 AM
Chad Forbes: #Jets
I don't know who Chad Forbes is or if he knows anything, but it sounds good.
Yesssssss.
There's no way they're tagging him given the fact that they're likely going to have to utilize the tag on either Tannehill or Henry. This isn't a situation like Dallas where they can use both tags, they don't have a great cap situation (I believe they have 50 mil, but that's before you factor in the likely 30 mil price tag for a Tannehill franchise tag and before a new contract for their stud running back), and they've already devoted big money to Taylor Lewan and Rodger Saffold along their offensive line.
He's hitting the market. Get it done Douglas.
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2020, 11:15:18 AM
Yesssssss.
There's no way they're tagging him given the fact that they're likely going to have to utilize the tag on either Tannehill or Henry. This isn't a situation like Dallas where they can use both tags, they don't have a great cap situation (I believe they have 50 mil, but that's before you factor in the likely 30 mil price tag for a Tannehill franchise tag and before a new contract for their stud running back), and they've already devoted big money to Taylor Lewan and Rodger Saffold along their offensive line.
He's hitting the market. Get it done Douglas.
Why do they have to tag Tannehill or Henry? They could just agree long term deals with both, although it looks like most of their big contracts have a time to run still so it's still difficult as they don't get cap relief in the next year or two that would allow them to go bonus heavy.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 29, 2020, 11:33:16 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2020, 11:45:54 AM
Why do they have to tag Tannehill or Henry? They could just agree long term deals with both, although it looks like most of their big contracts have a time to run still so it's still difficult as they don't get cap relief in the next year or two that would allow them to go bonus heavy.
With Henry they can likely get a long deal done I don't see him getting tagged at all.
But Tannenhill is a QB who just played very well and is an UFA. I'd imagine they'd have to give him something like 4 years close to 100 million to lock him up without the franchise tag (slightly more than Foles got as an UFA)
Of course he could be happy to have just gotten a second chance and to have had success so he could offer them a reasonable discount (for presumably more guaranteed money and a chance to win a SB )
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2020, 11:53:26 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2020, 12:00:43 PM
I just realised that Mariota is FA. That will be interesting to watch, someone might think that he's a potential reclamation.
Some in a hoodie will almost certainly sign him or Rosen (if he's available)
Post by: mj2sexay on January 29, 2020, 12:17:34 PM
Why do they have to tag Tannehill or Henry? They could just agree long term deals with both, although it looks like most of their big contracts have a time to run still so it's still difficult as they don't get cap relief in the next year or two that would allow them to go bonus heavy.
I honestly think Ryan Tannehill is going to be the hardest free agent quarterback for their own team to evaluate/re-sign because they haven't seen a full season out of him and he's holding a ton of leverage given how they closed out the year. The tag makes too much sense. Why commit to a Foles like deal when you can bring him back for a year at 30 mil and fully determine what you have.
If I'm Tannehill's agent, even in this loaded market, I'm not settling for a penny less than the deal Nick Foles got. That's the starting point.
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2020, 12:22:04 PM
I honestly think Ryan Tannehill is going to be the hardest free agent quarterback for their own team to evaluate/re-sign because they haven't seen a full season out of him and he's holding a ton of leverage given how they closed out the year. The tag makes too much sense. Why commit to a Foles like deal when you can bring him back for a year at 30 mil and fully determine what you have.
If I'm Tannehill's agent, even in this loaded market, I'm not settling for a penny less than the deal Nick Foles got. That's the starting point.
Yeah, that makes sense. If they tag him though it fucks their cap this year. I imagine they'll clear a few million by cutting Cam Wake, but they still don't have a lot of room. I think you're right that there's no real way they can keep Conklin.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 29, 2020, 02:27:04 PM
Some in a hoodie will almost certainly sign him or Rosen (if he's available)
Good
They both suck derriere
Post by: reuben on February 05, 2020, 08:14:00 PM
Just skip to the end.
Post by: Pope on February 05, 2020, 10:14:53 PM
EZPZ
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 17, 2020, 07:50:15 PM
Scenario 1:
Sign LT Anthony Costanzo
Draft OT Thomas/Wirfs/Wills/Becton
Draft OC Biadsz/Ruiz/Cushenberry/Hennessy
Scenario 2:
Sign RT Jack Conklin
Re-sign LT Kelvin Beachum
Draft OT Thomas/Wirfs/Wills/Becton
Draft OC Biadsz/Ruiz/Cushenberry/Hennessy
Scenario 3:
Sign OG Scherff/Thuney
Draft OT Thomas/Wirfs/Wills/Becton
Draft OC Biadsz/Ruiz/Cushenberry/Hennessy
Scenario 1:
LT - Costanzo
OG - Lewis
OC - Hennessy
RG - ?Harrison/Winters?
RT - Edoga/Thomas
Scenario 2:
LT - Beachum/Thomas
OG - Lewis
OC - Hennessy
RG - ?Harrison/Winters?
RT - Conklin
Scenario 3:
LT - Thomas
OG - Thuney
OC - Hennessy
RG - Lewis
RT - Edoga
Post by: reuben on February 17, 2020, 08:22:05 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 17, 2020, 08:24:43 PM
While I do think we have a realistic shot to land one of them, it's more likely that we end up with a few of the second tier guys.
DET Graham Glasgow (IOL)
DEN Connor McGovern (IOL)
DEN Elijah Wilkinson (OT)
PIT Matt Feiler (OT)
PHI Halapoulivaati Vaitai (OT)
NO Andrus Peat (IOL)
CHI Rashaad Coward (IOL)
BAL Parker Ehinger (IOL)
Feiler is one that is really under the radar. Vaitai is obviously on JD's radar.
If we can sign McGovern/Glasgow and Vaitai/Feiler, our OL will be in good shape heading into the draft.
LT: Beachum
LG: Lewis
C: McGovern/Glasgow
RG: ?
RT: Vaitai/Feiler
Harrison, McDermott, and Edoga provide depth at multiple spots.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 17, 2020, 08:38:19 PM
Post by: Pope on February 17, 2020, 09:49:43 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 17, 2020, 09:57:32 PM
I think you guys are gonna be disappointed when we land none of them in free agency. I have my hopes but I’m worried guys won’t wanna come here
We're not going to completely strike out in free agency. We have money to spend and a well-respected general manager negotiating these deals.
I don't think we'll land any of the premier free agents, but Douglas will patch this team up with a lot of mid-level signings.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 17, 2020, 10:47:03 PM
I think you guys are gonna be disappointed when we land none of them in free agency. I have my hopes but I’m worried guys won’t wanna come here
It’s one thing if we don’t land any, but seeing Douglas compete to land OL talent would already be a step up from Duff’s gameplan.
Post by: Miamipuck on February 17, 2020, 11:56:05 PM
It’s one thing if we don’t land any, but seeing Douglas compete to land OL talent would already be a step up from Duff’s gameplan.
This post is so not true, you're factoring Duff had a gameplan for the Oline, I don't think he did at all. There's nothing to step up from.
Post by: mj2sexay on February 18, 2020, 12:38:14 AM
I think we're focusing too much on the big name offensive linemen like Joe Thuney, Brandon Scherff, and Jack Conklin.
While I do think we have a realistic shot to land one of them, it's more likely that we end up with a few of the second tier guys.
DET Graham Glasgow (IOL)
DEN Connor McGovern (IOL)
DEN Elijah Wilkinson (OT)
PIT Matt Feiler (OT)
PHI Halapoulivaati Vaitai (OT)
NO Andrus Peat (IOL)
CHI Rashaad Coward (IOL)
BAL Parker Ehinger (IOL)
Feiler is one that is really under the radar. Vaitai is obviously on JD's radar.
If we can sign McGovern/Glasgow and Vaitai/Feiler, our OL will be in good shape heading into the draft.
LT: Beachum
LG: Lewis
C: McGovern/Glasgow
RG: ?
RT: Vaitai/Feiler
Harrison, McDermott, and Edoga provide depth at multiple spots.
Would love to see Glasgow. If this is what the offseason looks like, I'm fully on the Tristan Wirfs train and kicking him inside at guard.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 18, 2020, 02:45:14 AM
Nope Mac didn't have a plan for OL at all.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 18, 2020, 06:53:55 AM
Kelvin beachum, James carpenter, Spencer long
Nope Mac didn't have a plan for OL at all.
Are you really trying to defend what Maccagnan did to our OL?
Post by: dcm1602 on February 18, 2020, 07:05:59 AM
Are you really trying to defend what Maccagnan did to our OL?
Macs drafting was an absolute abomination and he did zero in the draft for the OL.
But his free agency moves for the OL were fairly competent.
He just never freaking drafted a single useful offensive lineman.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 18, 2020, 07:06:20 AM
Re-sign Robby Anderson
Acquire Darius Slay or Matt Judon
Sign Graham Glasgow and Matt Feiler
Draft Mekhi Becton
Post by: Heismanberg on February 18, 2020, 07:09:04 AM
Macs drafting was an absolute abomination and he did zero in the draft for the OL.
But his free agency moves for the OL were fairly competent.
He just never freaking drafted a single useful offensive lineman.
Spencer Long is awful
Post by: dcm1602 on February 18, 2020, 07:11:20 AM
Spencer Long is awful
In hindsight
But at the time it was a decent move. And it was a far better signing than freaking Kalil
Post by: MBGreen on February 18, 2020, 07:46:28 AM
In hindsight
But at the time it was a decent move. And it was a far better signing than freaking Kalil
Hindsight can be applied here too.
Post by: MBGreen on February 18, 2020, 07:48:29 AM
Ideal offseason for me:
Re-sign Robby Anderson
Acquire Darius Slay or Matt Judon
Sign Graham Glasgow and Matt Feiler
Draft Mekhi Becton
I would absolutely give up one of our 3rds to acquire Slay.
I think Judon gets franchised. If not, back up the truck for him.
Robby Anderson is going to get paid, probably not by us...but i hope he does, Sam seems comfortable with him.
Draft all the OL.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 18, 2020, 08:36:50 AM
And Judon will get franchised but I’d give up a 2 to get him. There’s not a pass rusher in this class aside from Chase Young that’s better than him.
Post by: MBGreen on February 18, 2020, 08:42:12 AM
I want us to draft a tackle but there’s a lot of good players in free agency at IOL and even tackle
And Judon will get franchised but I’d give up a 2 to get him. There’s not a pass rusher in this class aside from Chase Young that’s better than him.
I could see the Ravens kicking the league in the nuts and putting the exclusive rights franchise tag on Judon....price tag: 2 first round picks
hell i would, great pass rushers don't grow on trees.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 18, 2020, 08:43:03 AM
I could see the Ravens kicking the league in the nuts and putting the exclusive rights franchise tag on Judon....price tag: 2 first round picks
hell i would, great pass rushers don't grow on trees.
Then they can keep him if they do that
Post by: MBGreen on February 18, 2020, 08:45:16 AM
Then they can keep him if they do that
We'll see what happens. He's 28....so maybe they won't put him in that tier (2 first rounders).
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 18, 2020, 08:56:25 AM
Macs drafting was an absolute abomination and he did zero in the draft for the OL.
But his free agency moves for the OL were fairly competent.
He just never freaking drafted a single useful offensive lineman.
This might be your worst take, congratulations on never settling for mediocrity
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 18, 2020, 08:57:37 AM
In hindsight
But at the time it was a decent move. And it was a far better signing than freaking Kalil
Or we could have signed Ryan Jensen during that same offseason, who has graded out as one of the top Centers the last 2 years
Post by: Heismanberg on February 18, 2020, 09:17:34 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 18, 2020, 09:29:16 AM
I still think Edoga can be a solid starter
Chuma Edoga is Nigerian for Wayne Hunter.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 18, 2020, 10:35:57 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 18, 2020, 11:29:08 AM
I still think Edoga can be a solid starter
He’s definitely worth giving another shot unless we somehow land both an OT in FA and an OT in the draft
Post by: Johnny English on February 18, 2020, 11:50:40 AM
He’s definitely worth giving another shot unless we somehow land both an OT in FA and an OT in the draftI don't mind him sitting behind a bunch of vets to learn his trade and he's probably a decent 6th lineman for jumbo sets, but he showed nothing on the field that made me want to see him anywhere near starting.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 18, 2020, 01:21:05 PM
I don't mind him sitting behind a bunch of vets to learn his trade and he's probably a decent 6th lineman for jumbo sets, but he showed nothing on the field that made me want to see him anywhere near starting.
Quote
“ The @jets have a long-term building block in talented rookie Chuma Edoga. Last year’s @seniorbowl had 5 OL taken in first-round and Edoga won “Practice Player of the Week” honors over all of them. Cowboys DE Demarcus Lawrence didn’t get a single hit on QB Sam Darnold yesterday.”
Jim Nagy, Senior Bowl Coordinator
Someone in the comments suggests they’re only comfortable with Chuma as RT of the future:
“ He has the feet and pass pro ability to play LT.”
I’m fully aware of the small sample size, but blocking Demarcus Lawrence for an entire game is no small feat. Just pointing out your hyperbole that he wasn’t good in any instance last season.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 18, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
https://twitter.com/brandonthornnfl/status/1184857383543152641?s=21
One thing hopefully we can all agree on: if you have a bad or non cohesive OL unit, it makes the members of that OL look worse on an individual basis.
Edoga was a mid round pick, possible project, got thrust into a starting job earlier than expected, and had to flip flop positions from LT to RT a few times from what I recall. Oh, and he was supported by a historically bad OL grouping.
I’m not writing him off yet. I would also be more than happy to let him ride the pine if we can land a starting LT and RT during the offseason.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 18, 2020, 01:30:03 PM
Quote
Big reason I don't have left tackle as a need for the Jets right now. His potential there is worth seeing through the rest of the season
lol Matt Miller
Post by: delavan on February 18, 2020, 02:06:15 PM
Ted Karras is another name being thrown aroundGuess that means Dave Andrews (clots) is 100% back.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 19, 2020, 08:33:56 AM
lol Matt Miller
Best argument to immediately cut him.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 28, 2020, 09:19:56 PM
Nania is a beast
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 28, 2020, 09:22:35 PM
Anthony Costanzo is returning to the Colts.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 28, 2020, 09:43:07 PM
Quote
Sources tell me Trent Williams may be done in DC. He’s looking for a long term deal at top of the OT market, something the Redskins are not willing to do. If talks stay this way, a trade may be the best option. #httr #Redskins
I would do it for our 2nd 3rd rounder
Post by: Heismanberg on February 29, 2020, 05:58:51 AM
I would do it for our 2nd 3rd rounder
I wouldn’t because he’s older and wants a monster deal too
Post by: insanity on February 29, 2020, 06:42:50 AM
I’m not sure Conklin is a good enough pass blocker to back up the contract he will command. Right now I think I would rather have Thuney if I could pick anyone.
Anthony Costanzo is returning to the Colts.
Football stats are so hard to use objectively. I feel like a few months ago we were sharing win rate stats for tackles and getting was top 5
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 29, 2020, 11:12:23 AM
Football stats are so hard to use objectively. I feel like a few months ago we were sharing win rate stats for tackles and getting was top 5
I mean, the scouting report on Conklin has always been that he’s a dominant run blocker and just ok in pass pro. The stats support that.
I think he’s still worth signing, because just ok in pass pro is a hell of a lot better than what we have currently.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 03, 2020, 08:57:12 PM
Andrew Norvell and Brandon Linder are also available
---
We traded for Kelechi Osemele on March 10th last year. I expect to see some movement throughout the league starting soon.
Post by: MBGreen on March 04, 2020, 07:39:29 AM
I mean, the scouting report on Conklin has always been that he’s a dominant run blocker and just ok in pass pro. The stats support that.
I think he’s still worth signing, because just ok in pass pro is a hell of a lot better than what we have currently.
I'll have to consult with cap specialist dcm to see if it's worth giving Conklin a massive contract for "just ok" in pass protection. I'll report back with my findings.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 04, 2020, 10:29:32 AM
I'll have to consult with cap specialist dcm to see if it's worth giving Conklin a massive contract for "just ok" in pass protection. I'll report back with my findings.
Everything is relative. Depends on what the alternative is for the $$$
And protecting your franchise is worth a premium
Post by: reuben on March 04, 2020, 07:03:39 PM
Conk's great in the running game, less so in pass pro.
Pair em up.
Right Side = Aight Side
Post by: Libero_2 on March 04, 2020, 07:13:36 PM
Thuney's great in pass pro, less so in the running game.
Conk's great in the running game, less so in pass pro.
Pair em up.
Right Side = Aight Side
I’m not sure which OL pairing I prefer most
Conklin + Thuney
Conklin + Glasgow
Thuney + Glasgow
Conklin and Thuney is most talented but most expensive. But really any combo of those 3 that we have been linked to would be quite nice to have to revamp that OL
Post by: Heismanberg on March 04, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Then we need to draft Cesar Ruiz
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 04, 2020, 07:43:55 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 04, 2020, 08:15:14 PM
I want Conklin and Glasgow
Then we need to draft Cesar Ruiz
I don’t know that I like needing to trade up for Ruiz. Not when there’s a pretty damn good group of interior guys to be had in the middle of this draft class.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 04, 2020, 08:40:19 PM
I don’t know that I like needing to trade up for Ruiz. Not when there’s a pretty damn good group of interior guys to be had in the middle of this draft class.
I don't like the interior group, especially the centers, as much as you do I guess.
Ruiz is an elite center prospect. If Becton and Wills are gone at 11, we should trade back into the teens and grab Ruiz.
Post by: Johnny English on March 04, 2020, 08:40:52 PM
I want Conklin and Glasgow
Then we need to draft Cesar Ruiz
There are a few good centers in this draft, more than usual I think with Ruiz, Biadasz and Cushenberry all solid prospects. Ruiz is a local boy as well.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 04, 2020, 08:58:41 PM
There are a few good centers in this draft, more than usual I think with Ruiz, Biadasz and Cushenberry all solid prospects. Ruiz is a local boy as well.
Biadasz is not that good and he has some serious injury concerns.
I'd be okay using a third or fourth on him, but he is not on the same level as Ruiz and Cush.
Post by: Johnny English on March 04, 2020, 09:10:55 PM
Biadasz is not that good and he has some serious injury concerns.That Wisconsin line was really good, but I'll take your word for it. The TDN guys reckon he regressed last season and his draft stock does seem to be falling, because it's not long since he was the concensus #1 C.
I'd be okay using a third or fourth on him, but he is not on the same level as Ruiz and Cush.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 04, 2020, 09:24:51 PM
That Wisconsin line was really good, but I'll take your word for it. The TDN guys reckon he regressed last season and his draft stock does seem to be falling, because it's not long since he was the concensus #1 C.
Underclassmen always shake things up and that's what Ruiz has done.
The Wisconsin line is ALWAYS good. Sometimes those guys work out and sometimes they don't. I really wanted us to draft David Edwards and he hasn't amounted to much.
Groy, Dieter, and Havenstein kinda stink. Ricky Wagner was also highly touted as an OL prospect and then fell to the fifth round.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 05, 2020, 05:51:50 AM
Underclassmen always shake things up and that's what Ruiz has done.
The Wisconsin line is ALWAYS good. Sometimes those guys work out and sometimes they don't. I really wanted us to draft David Edwards and he hasn't amounted to much.
Groy, Dieter, and Havenstein kinda stink. Ricky Wagner was also highly touted as an OL prospect and then fell to the fifth round.
Maybe if they make their line special with subpar players, we should just hire their OL coach?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 05, 2020, 04:13:55 PM
Trent Williams’ agent, Vincent Taylor, was given permission today to try to facilitate a trade.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 05, 2020, 04:24:04 PM
@AdamSchefter
Trent Williams’ agent, Vincent Taylor, was given permission today to try to facilitate a trade.
The asking price is outrageous
Wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole unless the value is unrealistically diminished
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 06, 2020, 06:45:47 AM
Douglas: "You know how I feel about the offensive line. It's hard to have a good team without one and right now, as it stands, we only have one opening-day starter coming back under contract in Brian Winters. Everyone else is an unrestricted free agent. We're at 21 UFAs and three RFAs, so we have to improve not only the offensive line but many other positions.
2. Blockers can take a number of different roads to get to the Jets.
Douglas: "We've got a few different avenues to try to attack this — UFA, draft, trades — so we're going to look at every scenario."
Plz Joe
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2020, 06:55:34 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 06, 2020, 12:08:22 PM
Please cut Brian Winters
This
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 06, 2020, 12:14:09 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on March 06, 2020, 01:13:40 PM
The asking price is outrageous
Wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole unless the value is unrealistically diminished
He's 32, didn't play last year and they have to move him.
Giants third rounder and I'd do it.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2020, 01:22:09 PM
He's 32, didn't play last year and they have to move him.
Giants third rounder and I'd do it.
For a 32 year old tackle who also wants a monster payday?
Why not just keep Beachum?
Post by: mj2sexay on March 06, 2020, 01:40:37 PM
For a 32 year old tackle who also wants a monster payday?
Why not just keep Beachum?
Because Beachum is absolute trash and the upgrade that Williams represents if he still has it is clear and unequivocal. Sam needs to be protected now. Build. That. Wall.
I don't know of a better option on the free agent market than him given the fact that Peters is 39 with the exception of Anthony Costanzo, and all signs point to Costanzo staying in Indy. Whitworth slipped badly this year and is 38 if I'm not mistaken.
There's reports that the Skins turned down a first from the Pats, so I don't think he'd even be attainable at the price I'm willing to pay. I'm not giving up the 2nd given the amount of holes in this team and the realistic possibility that a day 1 starter on the interior line or at receiver should be there by our pick.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2020, 01:46:57 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2020, 01:55:45 PM
Beachum isn’t trash
Beachum's issue is that he's a piece of glass.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 06, 2020, 02:30:36 PM
Beachum's issue is that he's a piece of glass.
In his 8 year career, he's played less than 15 games 3 times:
- 2012 (rookie year) 7 games
- 2015 6 games
- 2019 13 games
The "problem" with Beachum is that he's not elite. If they can replace him with a better player, they should. But if he returned next year in favor of other positions on the OL being upgraded--especially the right side, I wouldn't have any issue with it.
Same with Harrison at center. Sure, I'd love to draft an upgrade, but if they upgrade elsewhere, he's serviceable enough to be the starter next year. Though I wouldn't mind seeing them draft C and maybe move Harrison into one of the guard positions. That would keep him around as depth for C.
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2020, 02:47:40 PM
In his 8 year career, he's played less than 15 games 3 times:
- 2012 (rookie year) 7 games
- 2015 6 games
- 2019 13 games
The "problem" with Beachum is that he's not elite. If they can replace him with a better player, they should. But if he returned next year in favor of other positions on the OL being upgraded--especially the right side, I wouldn't have any issue with it.
Same with Harrison at center. Sure, I'd love to draft an upgrade, but if they upgrade elsewhere, he's serviceable enough to be the starter next year. Though I wouldn't mind seeing them draft C and maybe move Harrison into one of the guard positions. That would keep him around as depth for C.
Well, I don't know if this is a coincidence or not...but the injury list is usually quite long for rosters under Gase. It happened when he was in Miami, it happened here. I don't trust Beachum, or any player on this roster for that matter, to stay healthy for a full season.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 06, 2020, 02:55:54 PM
Well, I don't know if this is a coincidence or not...but the injury list is usually quite long for rosters under Gase. It happened when he was in Miami, it happened here. I don't trust Beachum, or any player on this roster for that matter, to stay healthy for a full season.
That's fair enough.
But it's incorrect to say Beachum is made of glass.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2020, 02:56:37 PM
The Athletic's Connor Hughes reports the Jets are among the teams pursuing Redskins LT Trent Williams.
This makes sense. The Jets ranked 30th in adjusted sack rate and 31st in adjusted line yards per rush last season (Football Outsiders). Only the Steelers averaged fewer yards before contact per rush. Protecting Sam Darnold needs to be on the top of the team's offseason to-do list. Overall, Darnold was pressured on a league-high 41.6% of his dropbacks in 2019 (PFF).
Post by: bojanglesman on March 06, 2020, 05:06:43 PM
I'm not advocating the Jets sign him for a gazillion bucks, but if they signed him, it would be a good thing for Sam. 7 straight pro bowls through 2018 ain't bad. Yeah he'll be 32 this year, but Jason Peters is 39 and still playing well, so it wouldn't be a shocker to see Williams have a good 3-4 years left.
Silverback 2020
Post by: reuben on March 06, 2020, 05:21:24 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2020, 05:31:45 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 06, 2020, 05:32:11 PM
You do have to wonder considering how things played out with Trent Williams and the redskins (medical staff/issues) and our situation with Enunwa and Osemele. You would think after the Redskins the Jets would probably be his absolute last choice of a landing spot$$$. It talks.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2020, 05:40:59 PM
$$$. It talks.
True but it's unlikely that there isn't a single team offering him a comparable amount of money as the Jets thoguh
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2020, 07:16:58 PM
I'm all for Trent Williams for a 3rd. If he kept that excised cyst of his we could give it Brian Winters' job too. Less cancerous, fraction of the cost.
5 honks
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 06, 2020, 07:22:25 PM
If you told me all 4 tackles were gone before our draft pick, I would look to trade down, accumulate extra picks, and ship one off for Trent Williams.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 06, 2020, 07:51:44 PM
I wonder when the Trent Williams trade would actually happen.
If you told me all 4 tackles were gone before our draft pick, I would look to trade down, accumulate extra picks, and ship one off for Trent Williams.
That’s the ideal situation. But this trade will happen in the next 10-15 days.
That said if we traded for Williams and one of the top tackles still fell in our lap, take them and don’t look back
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 06, 2020, 08:13:45 PM
According to the queynte Connor Hughes
The Athletic's Connor Hughes reports the Jets are among the teams pursuing Redskins LT Trent Williams.
This makes sense. The Jets ranked 30th in adjusted sack rate and 31st in adjusted line yards per rush last season (Football Outsiders). Only the Steelers averaged fewer yards before contact per rush. Protecting Sam Darnold needs to be on the top of the team's offseason to-do list. Overall, Darnold was pressured on a league-high 41.6% of his dropbacks in 2019 (PFF).
Overall, Darnold was pressured on a league-high 41.6% of his dropbacks in 2019 (PFF).
Prtttt
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2020, 09:59:21 PM
I wonder when the Trent Williams trade would actually happen.
If you told me all 4 tackles were gone before our draft pick, I would look to trade down, accumulate extra picks, and ship one off for Trent Williams.
The trade will almost certainly happen before the start of free agency
The Redskins will need to go out and find a replacement, and his trade value presumably will drop after several teams use free agency to fill their needs
Post by: Johnny English on March 06, 2020, 10:27:34 PM
I wonder when the Trent Williams trade would actually happen.I may have (definitely have) mentioned this before, but I hate this kind of conjecture because it's pure fantasy.
If you told me all 4 tackles were gone before our draft pick, I would look to trade down, accumulate extra picks, and ship one off for Trent Williams.
No one trades down. Teams don't call and say "hey, you want to give up a bunch of picks for my high pick?" because no one actually knows who is on anyone else's draft board and what value they have attached to those players.
You can trade up, because that's always in your control. There's always a big enough price you can offer to get a higher pick. You can't trade down, you can only accept someone else's offer to trade up and that can't be predicted.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2020, 11:14:12 PM
I may have (definitely have) mentioned this before, but I hate this kind of conjecture because it's pure fantasy.
No one trades down. Teams don't call and say "hey, you want to give up a bunch of picks for my high pick?" because no one actually knows who is on anyone else's draft board and what value they have attached to those players.
You can trade up, because that's always in your control. There's always a big enough price you can offer to get a higher pick. You can't trade down, you can only accept someone else's offer to trade up and that can't be predicted.
I mean there's no reason you can't try to trade down. Presumably you'd have to sell at a discount because teams didn't want to trade up enoguh to call you.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 07, 2020, 01:38:05 AM
I may have (definitely have) mentioned this before, but I hate this kind of conjecture because it's pure fantasy.I would trade down every year if we could. Like you said, it takes two to tango though. I try not to project it quite as much as I used to because it never seems to happen, and you do need someone interested in the pick to get fair value.
No one trades down. Teams don't call and say "hey, you want to give up a bunch of picks for my high pick?" because no one actually knows who is on anyone else's draft board and what value they have attached to those players.
You can trade up, because that's always in your control. There's always a big enough price you can offer to get a higher pick. You can't trade down, you can only accept someone else's offer to trade up and that can't be predicted.
That said, this post took a weird turn. I agree there's almost always a big enough price you can offer to get a higher pick. But by that same token, there's always a low enough price you can get to trade down. Neither one is a good option for the Jets.
I saw a mock the other day on a reputable site that had the Jets trading down from 11 to 14 and still somehow getting Andrew Thomas. I would be in heaven.
My main point was that I'm far more willing to give up a pick for Trent Williams if Douglas is willing to trade down either in the 1st or 2nd rounds to accumulate more picks. That doesn't mean Douglas would necessarily find a trade partner - the Jets couldn't find one last season - but I would like to go in with that plan.
Post by: Jumbo on March 07, 2020, 12:36:05 PM
I would trade down every year if we could. Like you said, it takes two to tango though. I try not to project it quite as much as I used to because it never seems to happen, and you do need someone interested in the pick to get fair value.
That said, this post took a weird turn. I agree there's almost always a big enough price you can offer to get a higher pick. But by that same token, there's always a low enough price you can get to trade down. Neither one is a good option for the Jets.
I saw a mock the other day on a reputable site that had the Jets trading down from 11 to 14 and still somehow getting Andrew Thomas. I would be in heaven.
My main point was that I'm far more willing to give up a pick for Trent Williams if Douglas is willing to trade down either in the 1st or 2nd rounds to accumulate more picks. That doesn't mean Douglas would necessarily find a trade partner - the Jets couldn't find one last season - but I would like to go in with that plan.
The depth on this team is so terrible that trading down whenever possible is a pretty acceptable course of action. I wouldn't go in with the 100% intention of trading down, but if you don't have one or two guys ranked far ahead of everyone else I think it should be Plan A for sure.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 07, 2020, 12:51:45 PM
The depth on this team is so terrible that trading down whenever possible is a pretty acceptable course of action. I wouldn't go in with the 100% intention of trading down, but if you don't have one or two guys ranked far ahead of everyone else I think it should be Plan A for sure.
I’m not ever gonna be mad at a trade down, but if we still need a starting OT, one of the top 4 OTs is OTB at 11, I would rather take 1 than trade down.
Post by: reuben on March 07, 2020, 01:58:55 PM
Quote
BRIAN WINTERS
G, NEW YORK JETS
SNY's Ralph Vacchiano reports the Jets want RG Brian Winters to take a pay cut.
Winters is owed a non-guaranteed $7.2 million in the final year of his deal. The Jets want him back, but at a reduced salary after a shoulder injury limited him to nine games last season. With all the turnover on the Jets' offensive line, Winters may be the only starter that returns in 2020.
Quote
GRAHAM GLASGOW
C, DETROIT LIONS
The Jets have interest in free agent OL Graham Glasgow.
They've also been linked to free agent Joe Thuney and are the leading candidates to trade for Trent Williams. With only RG Brian Winters under contract, New York is going to overhaul its offensive line this offseason. Glasgow played right guard last year but could be an option at center for the Jets.
Give me any three of Williams, Conklin, Thuney, or Glasgow and let's hit the draft with some freaking options.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 07, 2020, 02:01:45 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2020, 02:07:53 PM
I really hope Winters isn't on this team in 2020.
I'm fine with Winters on a smaller contract and with better linemates.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 07, 2020, 02:08:47 PM
I'm fine with Winters on a smaller contract and with better linemates.
freak you, mate
Post by: bojanglesman on March 07, 2020, 02:13:31 PM
I'd be happy if we signed him but it would be quite ok if we didn't considering the salary and draft picks we'd have to give up.
The boring choice usually ends up being the best one.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 07, 2020, 02:14:56 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2020, 02:25:47 PM
freak you, mate
Hahaha, I know you hate him. I still think he can be serviceable, because he has been before.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 07, 2020, 04:41:31 PM
This team has so many needs on the OL that if you can get bargain value at the position, it allows you to spend more addressing the rest to get the most overhauled product.
If we only needed 1 or 2 OL total then sure that's a different story. But when completely rebuilding value targets are huge
Plus if he's back on a value, (cheap one year deal) it gives you flexibility in the draft. If you find a replacement for him or a replacement for him in one year great. If you don't, well at least you're not desperate.
One year value stopgaps are an awesome tool for rebuilding
Post by: Libero_2 on March 07, 2020, 06:50:25 PM
If Winters is willing to come back at a reduced rate I don't see how you can complain about the move.
This team has so many needs on the OL that if you can get bargain value at the position, it allows you to spend more addressing the rest to get the most overhauled product.
If we only needed 1 or 2 OL total then sure that's a different story. But when completely rebuilding value targets are huge
Plus if he's back on a value, (cheap one year deal) it gives you flexibility in the draft. If you find a replacement for him or a replacement for him in one year great. If you don't, well at least you're not desperate.
One year value stopgaps are an awesome tool for rebuilding
If Winters is willing to come back at a reduced rate I don't see how you can complain about the move.
This team has so many needs on the OL that if you can get bargain value at the position, it allows you to spend more addressing the rest to get the most overhauled product.
If we only needed 1 or 2 OL total then sure that's a different story. But when completely rebuilding value targets are huge
Plus if he's back on a value, (cheap one year deal) it gives you flexibility in the draft. If you find a replacement for him or a replacement for him in one year great. If you don't, well at least you're not desperate.
One year value stopgaps are an awesome tool for rebuilding
If Winters is willing to come back at a reduced rate I don't see how you can complain about the move.
This team has so many needs on the OL that if you can get bargain value at the position, it allows you to spend more addressing the rest to get the most overhauled product.
If we only needed 1 or 2 OL total then sure that's a different story. But when completely rebuilding value targets are huge
Plus if he's back on a value, (cheap one year deal) it gives you flexibility in the draft. If you find a replacement for him or a replacement for him in one year great. If you don't, well at least you're not desperate.
One year value stopgaps are an awesome tool for rebuilding
Winters won’t sign a deal for $3 million just to not get cut today. He will want/need something back. If he takes a pay cut, he will get guaranteed dollars. Possibly not just for this year. I’d rather just not keep him around.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 07, 2020, 07:43:50 PM
Winters won’t sign a deal for $3 million just to not get cut today. He will want/need something back. If he takes a pay cut, he will get guaranteed dollars. Possibly not just for this year. I’d rather just not keep him around.
If the dude wants to rehab his value for free agency he would want a 1 year deal mostly guaranteed. I don't think it would be unreasonable to do like one year 6 million mostly guaranteed or something to that effect.
We get a value stop gap, and he gets a chance to stay healthy and get a huge payday next year. He will only be 29 next offseason, so he could theoretically set himself up for a huge payday if he stays healthy and plays at a high level.
Him taking a 3 year 18-20 ish million deal could leave a lot of money on the table
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2020, 07:46:50 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 08, 2020, 05:38:33 AM
The problem with him is he gets hurt often, and he isn't a good enough player to be worth starting when he's hurt. Best case scenario, he is average, and that can be said for a lot of players.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 08, 2020, 07:15:14 AM
I get that we cant adequately address every need. If Winters has to compete for a job, so be it. I assume if they bring him back, he must be a good guy in the locker room, too.
The problem with him is he gets hurt often, and he isn't a good enough player to be worth starting when he's hurt. Best case scenario, he is average, and that can be said for a lot of players.
If Winters comes back I'd say there's almost a 0 chance he's competing for a job (regardless of typical preseason bs)
It's almost certainly going to be a one year prove it deal to rehab his value.
And considering he probably won't be able to pass a physical anytime soon it's not like free agency will be too kind to him
Post by: Libero_2 on March 08, 2020, 07:23:08 AM
He's making $7M this year. He knows he's getting cut on that deal, I'd offer him $4M / 3 years and let him test the market if he doesn't accept.
Agreed. I don’t want to commit any money to him beyond this year.
As for the dam plan of offer him $6 million, what’s the point of that for us? He’s making $7.2million. Saving $1 million isn’t really worth it.
I still want to cut his derriere. But if we deem he can be brought back for $3-$4 million for this year. Hard to get a guy who can start for that money
Post by: dcm1602 on March 08, 2020, 07:46:22 AM
Agreed. I don’t want to commit any money to him beyond this year.
As for the dam plan of offer him $6 million, what’s the point of that for us? He’s making $7.2million. Saving $1 million isn’t really worth it.
I still want to cut his derriere. But if we deem he can be brought back for $3-$4 million for this year. Hard to get a guy who can start for that money
Everything is relative
Can we get someone better for 6 million? Can we get another comparably talented guy to come here for only one year of commitment?
This is a situation where both the Jets and Winters can benefit from a one year prove it deal.
It makes no sense for winters to come here for 3 to 4 million
And it makes no sense for either winters or the Jets to agree to a long term contract.
I would say best case scenario would the Jets signing Winters to a one year deal for a mediocre base salary (3-4 million) and add a freak ton of incentives for him (games played active snaps played workout bonuses etc) but I doubt it'll be the case. I'm thinking 6 ish million with lots of guarantees is what's going to happen.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 08, 2020, 09:57:00 PM
If Winters comes back I'd say there's almost a 0 chance he's competing for a job (regardless of typical preseason bs)If we bring Winters back, odds are he would start, since it's usually hard to displace the incumbents unless there is a clear better option. But I don't think we should hand him a job. I agree, it would likely be a one-year prove-it deal, but like you said, he probably won't have much of a market, so we have some leverage if they want to bring him back and annoy Heis.
It's almost certainly going to be a one year prove it deal to rehab his value.
And considering he probably won't be able to pass a physical anytime soon it's not like free agency will be too kind to him
Post by: Heismanberg on March 08, 2020, 09:58:41 PM
If we bring Winters back, odds are he would start, since it's usually hard to displace the incumbents unless there is a clear better option. But I don't think we should hand him a job. I agree, it would likely be a one-year prove-it deal, but like you said, he probably won't have much of a market, so we have some leverage if they want to bring him back and annoy Heis.
freak you too, mate
Post by: dcm1602 on March 08, 2020, 10:14:42 PM
If we bring Winters back, odds are he would start, since it's usually hard to displace the incumbents unless there is a clear better option. But I don't think we should hand him a job. I agree, it would likely be a one-year prove-it deal, but like you said, he probably won't have much of a market, so we have some leverage if they want to bring him back and annoy Heis.
Presumably if we bring back winters cheap it meanw we're more focused on upgrading the rest of the OL
So sure he theoretically might be in a competition. But there won't be a competition
Post by: delavan on March 08, 2020, 11:03:22 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 09, 2020, 07:18:21 AM
That bum dressed down Darnold in full view of all in Miami - screw him.
This is where I’m at
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 09, 2020, 07:39:28 AM
That bum dressed down Darnold in full view of all in Miami - screw him.
I keep seeing references to this but I missed the game. What happened, exactly?
Post by: dcm1602 on March 09, 2020, 08:25:14 AM
I keep seeing references to this but I missed the game. What happened, exactly?
Quote
Manish Mehta
@MMehtaNYDN
·
Nov 3, 2019
WOW.
Brian Winters jawing at Sam Darnold at that errant shotgun snap that results in a safety.
Jets have hit rock bottom
Post by: MBGreen on March 09, 2020, 08:46:47 AM
That bum dressed down Darnold in full view of all in Miami - screw him.
bingo
Post by: dcm1602 on March 09, 2020, 10:01:23 AM
Quote
ESPN's John Keim reports LT Trent Williams wants a contract extension that will pay him $20 million annually.
It's a lot of money for a 31-year-old that sat out last year and hasn't played a full season since 2013. Given his contract demands, it's unlikely any team gives up a first-rounder for Williams, but the Redskins may settle for an early Day 2 pick. The Jets and Browns are the top landing spots for Williams.
He can eat a box of cocks
I want nothing to do with him
Post by: bojanglesman on March 09, 2020, 10:30:30 AM
He can eat a box of cocksYep. Too much.
I want nothing to do with him
Post by: Libero_2 on March 09, 2020, 10:47:26 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on March 09, 2020, 10:52:48 AM
Lets see who gets lucky first.
Post by: Johnny English on March 09, 2020, 10:57:24 AM
I want to freak Angie Dickenson.
Lets see who gets lucky first.
Big Blocker, is that you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angie_Dickinson
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 09, 2020, 11:00:36 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 09, 2020, 11:07:45 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 09, 2020, 11:15:24 AM
Post by: Johnny English on March 09, 2020, 11:16:57 AM
If we only gave up one of 6th rounders to get him...do it. It's not my money.
Quote
Given his contract demands, it's unlikely any team gives up a first-rounder for Williams, but the Redskins may settle for an early Day 2 pick.
Post by: MBGreen on March 09, 2020, 11:18:23 AM
make it a day 3 pick, and we good.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 09, 2020, 12:00:34 PM
Big Blocker, is that you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angie_Dickinson
Lmaoooo talk about a poster from the old place that I hadn't thought of in like 5 years.
It's an Uncle Jun line from the Sopranos. The government in their pitch to get Junior to cooperate is telling them they want him to finger Tony as the street boss of the DiMeo family.
There's no way someone is throwing Trent Williams 20 mil per. It's a 20 percent raise on the highest AAV at the position.
Post by: MBGreen on March 09, 2020, 12:02:32 PM
Lmaoooo talk about a poster from the old place that I hadn't thought of in like 5 years.
It's an Uncle Jun line from the Sopranos. The government in their pitch to get Junior to cooperate is telling them they want him to finger Tony as the street boss of the DiMeo family.
There's no way someone is throwing Trent Williams 20 mil per. It's a 20 percent raise on the highest AAV at the position.
RIP Uncle June
Post by: Johnny English on March 14, 2020, 10:41:03 AM
I'm told the #Skins are "starting" at a 2nd-round compensation request to trade Trent Williams, but, from a team perspective this ask "is negotiable," per source. I'm told there's sentiment w/i the org a trade has been slowed by contractual demands based on their market feedback.
Post by: IATA on March 14, 2020, 11:05:47 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on March 14, 2020, 03:22:51 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2020, 03:37:47 PM
Deleted necrophilia post.........
wat
Post by: reuben on March 14, 2020, 04:35:36 PM
Quote
Redskins placed the franchise tag on OG Brandon Scherff.
Washington reportedly hoped to get a long-term deal done, but instead he'll receive the franchise tag. PFF's No. 7 overall guard from 2019 certainly would've had plenty of potential suitors on the open market. Scherff has started 65 games since being drafted with the No. 5 overall pick in the 2015 draft. His presence in 2020 will help solidify what was a porous overall offensive line last season.
One off the board.
Post by: Johnny English on March 14, 2020, 05:14:02 PM
One off the board.
Depends whether he wants to be there. They might just be doing it to try and get a trade done; until he signs it they can always take it off if they can't find a trade market and let him walk.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2020, 05:24:24 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 14, 2020, 05:27:32 PM
I’m really hoping Douglas goes after Thuney and Glasgow
Poppin a straight up bone cone over here
Post by: dcm1602 on March 14, 2020, 05:39:25 PM
I’m really hoping Douglas goes after Thuney and Glasgow
Having to compete with Miami for OL is going to freaking suck. Especially ones with ties to New England like Thuney
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2020, 05:49:16 PM
Having to compete with Miami for OL is going to freaking suck. Especially ones with ties to New England like Thuney
It doesn't matter who they sign if they draft Tua.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 14, 2020, 05:51:38 PM
It doesn't matter who they sign if they draft Tua.
I mean if they sign Thuney we can't. I'm more concerned about us getting the guys we want, than them being good. They already have the advantage on state income tax, more cap space, and a coach connection with thuney
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2020, 05:57:22 PM
They already have the advantage on state income tax
Connor Hughes started whining about this and idiot derriere fans took off and ran with it.
It's not an advantage. It has never, ever helped them sign better players than any other teams in the NFL.
Money talks. They have a lot of it. If they outbid someone, that's fine. But players aren't choosing to play there because of freaking taxes.
Hughes probably took a major loss with The Athletic and got butt-fucked by taxes in 2019. No idea why he's so fixated on this but it's freaking stupid to start harping on it now.
Post by: Johnny English on March 14, 2020, 07:15:32 PM
Quote
Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo
Former #Titans and #Eagles G Chance Warmack is aiming at a comeback after sitting out last season. The former first-round pick, who turns 29 in September, has visits lined up with teams once facilities reopen. Has hired a new agent in Ron Slavin of @SPORTSTARSNYC.
Former draft darling of many on here. Possibly me. I don't remember, and I generally don't know what I'm talking about anyway.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2020, 07:19:44 PM
Former draft darling of many on here. Possibly me. I don't remember, and I generally don't know what I'm talking about anyway.
For some reason, it just never translated for him. He was as good as it gets in college and has been absolutely horrible in the NFL.
Stay away.
Post by: insanity on March 14, 2020, 09:08:27 PM
Former draft darling of many on here. Possibly me. I don't remember, and I generally don't know what I'm talking about anyway.It's crazy that hes still 29 and Alden smith is only 30
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 15, 2020, 12:40:18 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2020, 12:52:09 AM
For some reason, it just never translated for him. He was as good as it gets in college and has been absolutely horrible in the NFL.
Stay away.
Surely he would be a decent choice as a backup? I mean he's got a lot of starting experience and the Joe Douglas connection
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2020, 07:42:35 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 15, 2020, 08:24:46 AM
Surely he would be a decent choice as a backup? I mean he's got a lot of starting experience and the Joe Douglas connectionI'd rather have a younger player that could have a future here, even if that's just as a backup. He'd make more sense for a Super Bowl ready team that isn't looking towards the future as much.
Post by: Pope on March 15, 2020, 09:22:28 AM
Jonathan Cooper didn’t play a snap in 2019 either, sign both of them and we have a massive upgrade on our iOL from last seasonThat’s why I’m against drafting interior OL where we’ve been picking (top 10 generally). Everyone was clamoring for these guys and they were back to back monumental busts at the guard position
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2020, 10:24:51 AM
That’s why I’m against drafting interior OL where we’ve been picking (top 10 generally). Everyone was clamoring for these guys and they were back to back monumental busts at the guard position
Quenton Nelson is p good though, huh?
Post by: Pope on March 15, 2020, 10:25:45 AM
That’s why I’m against drafting interior OL where we’ve been picking (top 10 generally). Everyone was clamoring for these guys and they were back to back monumental busts at the guard positionIt’s gonna be ridiculous if we pick and choose players that worked out well in random drafts
Agree to disagree here
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2020, 10:44:54 AM
It’s gonna be ridiculous if we pick and choose players that worked out well in random drafts
Agree to disagree here
Every position has busts that looked like sure things when they were drafted
Post by: Pope on March 15, 2020, 10:59:05 AM
Every position has busts that looked like sure things when they were draftedYes but my point is not every position is weighted equally when picking in the top 10
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2020, 11:06:47 AM
Yes but my point is not every position is weighted equally when picking in the top 10
I would rather draft iOL than iDL in the top 10
Post by: Pope on March 15, 2020, 11:08:13 AM
I would rather draft iOL than iDL in the top 10I’d prefer neither
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2020, 11:31:03 AM
I’d prefer neither
I’d prefer not to keep picking in the top 10, but it turns out what I want doesn’t matter
Post by: Jumbo on March 15, 2020, 11:38:18 AM
I’d prefer not to keep picking in the top 10, but it turns out what I want doesn’t matter
uhm we're picking 11th so what are u whining about
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2020, 12:03:15 PM
uhm we're picking 11th so what are u whining about
The one year besides the Darnold draft where we actually need a high pick instead of just defaulting to the best available DT that falls to us
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 15, 2020, 04:31:44 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2020, 05:15:44 PM
A top-10 caliber player will be available at 11. Give me one of Wills, Becton, Wirfs, and Jeudy and I'll be happy.
I’ll be happy with Jeudy but I would be devastated if there was a run on all the OTs just before our pick. Would feel different if we landed Conklin
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2020, 05:28:21 PM
I’ll be happy with Jeudy but I would be devastated if there was a run on all the OTs just before our pick. Would feel different if we landed Conklin
Even if we sign Conklin, we'd still have a major need at left tackle.
If there's a run on tackles early and all four are gone before our pick, I'd prefer selecting Cesar Ruiz over any wideout. I feel like the dropoff at iOL is way steeper outside of the first than what we're going to see at wideout.
Jerry Jeudy/Henry Ruggs/Ceedee Lamb isn't going to do excrement if we can't protect Sam Darnold.
Post by: Jumbo on March 15, 2020, 05:32:36 PM
Even if we sign Conklin, we'd still have a major need at left tackle.
If there's a run on tackles early and all four are gone before our pick, I'd prefer selecting Cesar Ruiz over any wideout. I feel like the dropoff at iOL is way steeper outside of the first than what we're going to see at wideout.
Jerry Jeudy/Henry Ruggs/Ceedee Lamb isn't going to do excrement if we can't protect Sam Darnold.
You think Ruiz will have first round stock come April/whenever the draft is? Who knows with how these things go but seems like he will be around on Day 2 as of now
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2020, 05:37:20 PM
You think Ruiz will have first round stock come April/whenever the draft is? Who knows with how these things go but seems like he will be around on Day 2 as of now
I think he's a top twenty pick and the clear-cut best interior offensive lineman in this draft class.
A lot of people are going to compare him to Lloyd Cushenberry throughout the pre-draft process. Ruiz is the better player already and he's two years younger than Cush.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 15, 2020, 06:18:53 PM
You think Ruiz will have first round stock come April/whenever the draft is? Who knows with how these things go but seems like he will be around on Day 2 as of now
Idk if he’s as good as Heis thinks (top 20) but Ruiz is pretty damn good. I think he could be had in a trade back a little ways. I really think a team like Denver is going to be looking to move up. They have an excess of picks and we are a sweet spot for a guy sliding out of the top 10, or the top WR ahead of the Raiders/Colts.
I’m a huge fan of trying to orchestrate that trade if the top OTs that we are interested in are gone
Post by: bojanglesman on March 15, 2020, 06:27:34 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2020, 06:39:31 PM
Total spitballing, but maybe Douglas goes hard after Conklin or Vaitai moreso than Thuney in FA. This would give flexibility in round 1 to either take one of the top 2-3 tackles THEY like if there, trade back if they have an offer knowing they already have a starting tackle, or take the top WR. Guard value would be best in the second.
I will be disappointed if we take a receiver at 11.
The value is not there. There will be a lot of very good wideouts available in the second round.
We need to go OT or EDGE if we stay at 11.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 15, 2020, 07:04:39 PM
I will be disappointed if we take a receiver at 11.
The value is not there. There will be a lot of very good wideouts available in the second round.
We need to go OT or EDGE if we stay at 11.
Do you believe in Chaisson? I just don’t think he’s going to be a monster pass rusher and that makes me not feel comfortable taking him at 11...
And I take it you are anti CB at 11? That’s the only other position that makes sense value/need wise for us
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 16, 2020, 08:15:53 AM
I will be disappointed if we take a receiver at 11.
The value is not there. There will be a lot of very good wideouts available in the second round.
We need to go OT or EDGE if we stay at 11.
This has been my unwavering opinion since day 1
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2020, 10:35:48 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on March 16, 2020, 12:04:24 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 01:19:46 PM
I'd have like to have seen us bring in Rick Wagner for what he got from the Packers.
He sucks
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2020, 02:03:48 PM
#Jets want to play Glasgow at center, BTW, if they sign him, source said.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 16, 2020, 03:02:52 PM
He sucks
Complete overstatement.
He's serviceable, and was paid as such. Would I rather have Conklin, even at 15 mil per? Of course. Would I rather give Bryan Bulaga 12 million per when he can't stay healthy? freak no.
I'd rather see him in the lineup then spend another year seeing Edoga get completely derriere-blasted in the running game.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 03:03:41 PM
Complete overstatement.
No, it's not. He was good for a few years. He is terrible now.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 16, 2020, 04:08:59 PM
Quote
Jack Conklin agreed to a 3-year deal with the Browns for $42M with $30M fully guarantee, per @RosenhausSports. He earns $20mil in the first year. Wanted to keep it short due to the projected increases in the salary cap. Conklin will only be 28 when this deal expires.
Did we even freaking try to sign him?? The Browns are a better franchise to play for than us?
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:14:55 PM
Adam Schefter
Did we even freaking try to sign him?? The Browns are a better franchise to play for than us?
$20M in the first year with $30M guaranteed to a guy that plays right tackle is a great deal for the player, not necessarily for the franchise.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2020, 04:16:49 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 16, 2020, 04:18:17 PM
$20M in the first year with $30M guaranteed to a guy that plays right tackle is a great deal for the player, not necessarily for the franchise.
He's better than anyone we have. Gotta pay to play in this league...and got to pay extra for FA to come here.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 16, 2020, 04:19:03 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2020, 04:19:13 PM
Adam Schefter(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200316/11a10c7f4c00a47dfd65c8bfb6d37200.jpg)
Did we even freaking try to sign him?? The Browns are a better franchise to play for than us?
Post by: Jumbo on March 16, 2020, 04:20:07 PM
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 04:20:37 PM
Adam Schefter
Did we even freaking try to sign him?? The Browns are a better franchise to play for than us?
So that's Costanzo, Scherff, Thuney and Conklin off the board.
Beachum, Glasgow, McGovern, maybe Bulaga should be the FA targets now. A trade for Trent Williams becomes more viable.
freak I've got a bad feeling about this.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 04:23:23 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2020, 04:26:08 PM
LG- draft/FA
C- draft/FA
RG- Winters
RT- Edoga
I guess this would be the worst case realistic scenario. It's early, at least we haven't blown our cap load yet.
Trades are possible too.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:26:13 PM
...and got to pay extra for FA to come here.
This is incorrect, but please keep posting fake Twitter signings.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2020, 04:27:00 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:28:03 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2020, 04:29:32 PM
So that's Costanzo, Scherff, Thuney and Conklin off the board.
Beachum, Glasgow, McGovern, maybe Bulaga should be the FA targets now. A trade for Trent Williams becomes more viable.
freak I've got a bad feeling about this.
Jason Peters also looking for a final payday and has a Joe connection.
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 04:31:50 PM
OT Halapoulivaati Vaitai to the #Lions for $50m over five years, as @caplannfl said. Big money for Big V.
I wouldn't want to pay Vaitai $10M per. I'm sure it works out to less than that but still.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 16, 2020, 04:32:42 PM
WHY DIDNT WE SIGN THIS GUY I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT UNTIL THIS WEEK?!
No one cares about Vaitai.
But losing Conklin sucks. Really hopeful we can bring in Glasgow now. If we don’t we are going bargain basement shopping on the OL and while not the end of the world, is super annoying when we really need a brand new OL.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2020, 04:34:09 PM
Jason Peters also looking for a final payday and has a Joe connection.Aren’t you and Peters the same age, gramps?
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 04:34:53 PM
Adam Schefter
Did we even freaking try to sign him?? The Browns are a better franchise to play for than us?
That's a brilliant contract from Rosenhaus. $30 million guaranteed and another epic contract at 28.
I would have gladly matched that because we're freaking desperate, but still... great contract for Conklin.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:35:05 PM
But losing Conklin sucks.
We didn't lose him. We (the fans) wanted him because he's an offensive lineman, but Joe Douglas apparently was never really in on Conklin according to Cimini and Hughes.
Florio's stupid derriere started the Conklin stuff. You know who else reported we'd be after Conklin? Tony Pauline, an absolute piece of COVID infected excrement.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2020, 04:35:36 PM
No one cares about Vaitai.It’s more annoying since our young franchise QB deserves better than “bargain basement” OL shopping.
But losing Conklin sucks. Really hopeful we can bring in Glasgow now. If we don’t we are going bargain basement shopping on the OL and while not the end of the world, is super annoying when we really need a brand new OL.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:36:30 PM
That's a brilliant contract from Rosenhaus. $30 million guaranteed and another epic contract at 28.
I would have gladly matched that because we're freaking desperate, but still... great contract for Conklin.
It's a really great deal for the player with not much risk for the franchise, but if his knee gets thrashed again, they're out a lot of cash up front.
Cleveland is setting themselves up for a potential financial disaster, similar to what we're seeing with Dallas and the Rams.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:36:46 PM
It’s more annoying since our young franchise QB deserves better than “bargain basement” OL shopping.
#FireDouglas?
Post by: Jumbo on March 16, 2020, 04:38:59 PM
Nah but I think you could justify "overpaying" at least one OL. The team has the room to do it and we need new starters everywhere on the line - although alternatively, that means overpaying one guy doesn't really improve the OL too much as a whole. Hard to say until we see what Douglas's plan is
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2020, 04:39:40 PM
Aren’t you and Peters the same age, gramps?
I didn't say I wanted him, but no. Sadly I am a few years older than him, as are you. I'm still younger than Adam Vinatieri though!
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2020, 04:39:47 PM
Jets fans are hilarious.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2020, 04:41:03 PM
#FireDouglas?HeY GUys...GaSE juST NeEDs beTTeR pLAyeRs oN ThE OLIne
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:41:19 PM
Less than 6 hours into free agency and people are already freaking out.
Jets fans are hilarious.
4-12, here we come
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2020, 04:41:23 PM
Idzik 2.0
Nah but I think you could justify "overpaying" at least one OL. The team has the room to do it and we need new starters everywhere on the line - although alternatively, that means overpaying one guy doesn't really improve the OL too much as a whole. Hard to say until we see what Douglas's plan is
Douglas hasn't had the chance to do anything yet so we're really just relying on his pedigree to hope he'll be good, but of all the positions I expect him to get things right in terms of player quality and value it's OL. Not just because he played it, but because of how good the Eagles OL was with no real star names.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:42:29 PM
HeY GUys...GaSE juST NeEDs beTTeR pLAyeRs oN ThE OLIne
Free Agency started this afternoon and you've already thrown in the towel
TGG awaits
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:42:59 PM
Douglas hasn't had the chance to do anything yet so we're really just relying on his pedigree to hope he'll be good, but of all the positions I expect him to get things right in terms of player quality and value it's OL. Not just because he played it, but because of how good the Eagles OL was with no real star names.
Lane Johnson is ...a star
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 04:43:49 PM
Douglas hasn't been here for a full year yet so I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt on the judgement calls yet but let's see what happens when teams are actually allowed to sign players instead of just tamper.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:45:32 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2020, 04:45:47 PM
Lane Johnson is ...a star
In as much as any lineman can be, but he was also drafted really high. I meant that the Eagles didn't go out and sign a bunch of top quality can't miss players, they drafted well and added plug in role players. Which is presumably what we're going to do, given we're obviously not signing any of the big names. Trent Williams is pretty much the only one left.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2020, 04:46:18 PM
Free Agency started this afternoon and you've already thrown in the towelThrown in the towel lol
TGG awaits
Ok
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:47:08 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2020, 04:48:33 PM
The "Fire Gase" plane retards are out in full forceCan’t wait to hear what a POS our oline is again in 2020 when Gase is sitting on the bench catching butterflies.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 16, 2020, 04:48:41 PM
Vatai went bye bye
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 04:49:36 PM
It's disappointing that we are missing out on the OLine FAs.
As we have every year. And every year the defense is "LOL U mAD???? patience is a virtue stop freaking out it's only March."
Maybe one of these years we sign a top offensive lineman. Might work out. Might have more than Brian Winters protecting our franchise. But what do I know I'm hYsTeRiCaL
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 04:50:41 PM
The "Fire Gase" plane retards are out in full force
Honestly, you're both freaking annoying.
"This team was doing so poorly because of the offensive line, Gase never had a chance"
-60% of top OLine FA are either signed or taged-
"I don't understand why you are complaining!"
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 04:54:12 PM
60% of top OLine FA are either signed or taged
Why should we be upset about teams tagging players? It just means we never had a shot at them.
If our beat reporters are right, we were never high on Jack Conklin so how did we lose out?
Lets see what happens.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2020, 04:58:26 PM
Honestly, you're both freaking annoying.I want to upgrade the OL as much as anyone, but it's also March 16th, six hours into free agency. Glasgow is still out there. Other guys are still out there. I'm far from an expert on offensive line coaching, but that's supposedly Douglas' expertise, so if that's the case, maybe he can find some under-the-radar gems.
"This team was doing so poorly because of the offensive line, Gase never had a chance"
-60% of top OLine FA are either signed or taged-
"I don't understand why you are complaining!"
Plus, there's the draft next month. You guys want to draft 2-3 offensive linemen in the first couple rounds, well, if we do that, we're likely spending some money elsewhere.
Whining that we can't sign anyone because of Gase six hours into free agency is TGG excrement.
Every year when free agency starts, fans get upset when we don't sign who they want. Then two years later, we end up regretting 80% of the big money signings we do end up making.
Don't get me wrong, I would have celebrated a Conklin signing, even for that money. But it's still so, so early.
Post by: IATA on March 16, 2020, 04:59:05 PM
Oh well moving on
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 04:59:06 PM
Why should we be upset about teams tagging players? It just means we never had a shot at them.
You really don't get why people would be disappointed when they don't get what they want?
Supposedly we're shifting our focus to Glasgow. Hopefully we can reel him in.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 05:02:28 PM
You really don't get why people would be disappointed when they don't get what they want?
No, I don't get why anyone would get upset over a situation like Joe Thuney's -- everyone wanted him, but he was tagged at the last second. Nothing can be done.
Quote
Supposedly we're shifting our focus to Glasgow. Hopefully we can reel him in.
Glasgow at center would be huge for this team
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2020, 05:03:00 PM
No, I don't get why anyone would get upset over a situation like Joe Thuney's -- everyone wanted him
I didn't
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 05:04:19 PM
Break out the pitchforks
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2020, 05:04:38 PM
Beachum
McGovern
Peters
van Roten
?
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
The Broncos signed Graham Glasgow
Break out the pitchforks
source?
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 05:06:38 PM
source?
Every credible source on Twitter
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 16, 2020, 05:07:17 PM
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 05:07:28 PM
Post by: IATA on March 16, 2020, 05:07:28 PM
Welp
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 05:09:29 PM
This is not fun.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2020, 05:09:43 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 16, 2020, 05:10:44 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 16, 2020, 05:10:57 PM
Why should we be upset about teams tagging players? It just means we never had a shot at them.
If our beat reporters are right, we were never high on Jack Conklin so how did we lose out?
Lets see what happens.
Just because the Jets may not have been high on a guy. Doesn’t mean Jets Fans would have been upset to see us sign the guy
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
Just because the Jets may not have been high on a guy. Doesn’t mean Jets Fans would have been upset to see us sign the guy
NO
excrement
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 05:12:22 PM
Glasgow to Broncos. Not great. Wonder if we make a big run at Byron Jones.
I think we're in on Clowney and Jones right now
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 05:12:54 PM
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 05:14:00 PM
Beachum needs to come back. Alex Lewis (sigh) too.
Trent Williams would be a solid get.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 05:14:22 PM
Improving this unit is the most crucial part of the offseason. Who is left?
Lots of offensive linemen are left, just not the big names
McGovern is probably the best available
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2020, 05:15:45 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 05:15:51 PM
Lots of offensive linemen are left, just not the big names
McGovern is probably the best available
That's disappointing.
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2020, 05:22:47 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 16, 2020, 05:29:19 PM
I think we're in on Clowney and Jones right now
Y tho
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 16, 2020, 05:32:03 PM
Lots of offensive linemen are left, just not the big names
McGovern is probably the best available
Who's 10th best OL left? MAYBE we can sign him
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2020, 05:34:15 PM
Just draft every offensive linemen. Do what the Colts did. And get a couple vets to compete with them if they aren't ready.This is what we’re looking at. Let’s just hope the draft board falls our way
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 05:35:52 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 16, 2020, 05:36:52 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2020, 05:37:59 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 05:38:27 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 05:38:55 PM
Remember- anything the Jets do can only be an improvement on the o-line.
What if they bring Wayne Hunter out of retirement?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 16, 2020, 05:40:41 PM
What if they bring Wayne Hunter out of retirement?
D'Brickashaw right now would start for us any any spot on the OL
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 05:41:42 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2020, 05:41:52 PM
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 05:41:56 PM
Supposedly showing "some interest" in Van Roten.
Quote
SNY's Ralph Vacchiano reports the Jets have "shown some interest" in free agent OG Greg Van Roten.
The Jets have missed out on a number of their offensive-line targets in the first hours of free agency, leaving them sifting through the second tier. Van Roten was sent to I.R. with a toe injury in November last season after making 11 starts at left guard for the Panthers. The Jets badly need at least one starting guard.
(https://wompampsupport.azureedge.net/fetchimage?siteId=7575&v=2&jpgQuality=100&width=700&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Ffacebook%2F000%2F005%2F574%2Ftakemymoney.jpg)
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 05:42:44 PM
I’m sure the Osemele treatment was burned in all the FA olinemen memories.
Yeah that wasn't a good look.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 16, 2020, 05:46:54 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2020, 05:53:20 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on March 16, 2020, 05:57:06 PM
Post by: Pope on March 16, 2020, 05:58:03 PM
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 06:04:09 PM
Quote
Redskins signed G Wes Schweitzer, formerly of the Falcons, to a three-year, $13.5 million contract.
More for the Skins, more likely to let go of TW.
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2020, 06:05:13 PM
More for the Skins, more likely to let go of TW.
Not sure signing a guard makes them more likely to let a tackle walk.
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
Not sure signing a guard makes them more likely to let a tackle walk.
LET ME HAVE THIS HOPE
Post by: Laxin on March 16, 2020, 06:08:09 PM
Ima let Doug E Fresh do his thang. He's got it. We've been the overpayers and seen where that got us. Well Idzik didn't overpay but he went full retard so that doesn't count.
We always say this when the Jets don’t sign anyone. I’m fine with overpaying to protect the franchise. It’s more than worth it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2020, 06:10:06 PM
We always say this when the Jets don’t sign anyone. I’m fine with overpaying to protect the franchise. It’s more than worth it.Because we are fans, and we will justify whatever they do, within reason.
If we don't sign anyone, we're being patient and not overpaying. That's what I'm going with now.
Overpaying for free agents usually doesn't work out over the long haul. But at the same time, we sure could use an infusion of talent.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 06:11:30 PM
We always say this when the Jets don’t sign anyone. I’m fine with overpaying to protect the franchise. It’s more than worth it.
It's in the same vein as BPA chorus for our last five offensive lineman selections.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2020, 06:13:44 PM
Because we are fans, and we will justify whatever they do, within reason.I know I might be the biggest sunshiner here.
If we don't sign anyone, we're being patient and not overpaying. That's what I'm going with now.
Overpaying for free agents usually doesn't work out over the long haul. But at the same time, we sure could use an infusion of talent.
We are so focused on the o line that we forget all the other positions with good talent availability now. Still lots of big names out there.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2020, 06:13:57 PM
We always say this when the Jets don’t sign anyone. I’m fine with overpaying to protect the franchise. It’s more than worth it.This guy gets it
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 06:21:18 PM
We always say this when the Jets don’t sign anyone. I’m fine with overpaying to protect the franchise. It’s more than worth it.
Short-sighted. We're going to every available dime to sign a quarterback next season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 06:21:55 PM
Post by: Jumbo on March 16, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 16, 2020, 06:23:13 PM
Because we are fans, and we will justify whatever they do, within reason.
If we don't sign anyone, we're being patient and not overpaying. That's what I'm going with now.
Overpaying for free agents usually doesn't work out over the long haul. But at the same time, we sure could use an infusion of talent.
Paying them more doesn't make them better players, it does reduce your resources to get better players.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 06:24:12 PM
Paying them more doesn't make them better players, it does reduce your resources to get better players.
Which better players are you referring to?
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
I think you a word there.
I'm just saving up for better value sentences.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 16, 2020, 06:34:40 PM
Which better players are you referring to?
People become available all different ways. Trades around draft time, veterans who get cut after camp.
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2020, 06:37:36 PM
I'm just saving up for better value sentences.
I wish we had a like function on the board for posts like this.
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2020, 06:38:39 PM
People become available all different ways. Trades around draft time, veterans who get cut after camp.
Yeah... post camp cuts aren't really who I want to be trusting to keep Sam upright.
Post by: IATA on March 16, 2020, 06:40:50 PM
People become available all different ways. Trades around draft time, veterans who get cut after camp.That's the ticket to success, someone's leftovers who couldn't hack it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 07:30:26 PM
People become available all different ways. Trades around draft time, veterans who get cut after camp.
Yep. They're the ones you budget for.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 16, 2020, 07:32:06 PM
I’m sure the Osemele treatment was burned in all the FA olinemen memories.
#NotGasesFault
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2020, 07:48:29 PM
Yep. They're the ones you budget for.
I feel like there's a narrative of post-camp cuts every year, and I'm struggling to think of a single decent player we've signed at that point. Presumably because a player too excrement to make it onto one team's 53 is generally a bit excrement, because they were more excrement than quite a lot of player. Also this year it's a 55 meaning that the best 64 players who would have been cut last year now won't be, or to put it another way, the best post-camp cut this year would have been last year's 65th best.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 16, 2020, 08:01:06 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 08:45:51 PM
I believe the only major signing we’ve had to come post camp cuts (not trades) in the last decade, is Pete Kendall, and come to think of it, that might have been 15 years ago.... 2006? I’m not sure
This is the only one I can remember. I feel like the team has had better luck with practice squad players.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2020, 10:27:11 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2020, 10:56:30 PM
Glasgow did not want to play in New York and basically asked the Jets to pay up to entice him, so Douglas backed off.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 11:02:03 PM
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 11:02:56 PM
I'm sure we'll get a bigger story on this someday, but apparently Joe Thuney was planning to sign a massive deal with the Jets before the Patriots* franchised him at the last minute.
Glasgow did not want to play in New York and basically asked the Jets to pay up to entice him, so Douglas backed off.
Hmm. If you count the Prez nonsense last year, that's two instances of Joe Doug's potential maneuvers leaking out and causing problems. Twice is coincidence, as the saying goes. Miiiiight be a rat in the house though.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 11:05:53 PM
Hmm. If you count the Prez nonsense last year, that's two instances of Joe Doug's potential maneuvers leaking out and causing problems. Twice is coincidence, as the saying goes. Miiiiight be a rat in the house though.
Gase did it.
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2020, 11:14:21 PM
Gase did it.
(https://usatjetswire.files.wordpress.com/2019/11/usatsi_13695675-e1574409745546.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1)
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2020, 11:26:30 PM
(https://usatjetswire.files.wordpress.com/2019/11/usatsi_13695675-e1574409745546.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1)
He's just the fall guy.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 04:46:40 AM
I'm sure we'll get a bigger story on this someday, but apparently Joe Thuney was planning to sign a massive deal with the Jets before the Patriots* franchised him at the last minute.
Glasgow did not want to play in New York and basically asked the Jets to pay up to entice him, so Douglas backed off.
I saw rumor that Pats made the choice to franchise him for 2 reasons,
1. To choose the place he goes, as it was likely the highest bidders would have been us and Miami. So this keeps him out of the division for sure, even if it leads to less compensation long term
2. As a last ditch ploy to bring Brady back. Ensure he stays upright and hope that’s enough.
Now I’m all but certain if Brady leaves, Thuney will stay, if Tom stays I don’t see how they make it work to keep Thuney with the cap issues.
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 01:01:13 PM
Quote
Jonathan Jones @jjones9
Washington continues to be open for a trade of Trent Williams. I’m told it’s not a rigid second-round pick, though. Team is willing to work with a potential trade partner.
Guessing the market isn't too strong. He's looking more and more attractive.
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 01:02:14 PM
I saw rumor that Pats made the choice to franchise him for 2 reasons,
1. To choose the place he goes, as it was likely the highest bidders would have been us and Miami. So this keeps him out of the division for sure, even if it leads to less compensation long term
2. As a last ditch ploy to bring Brady back. Ensure he stays upright and hope that’s enough.
Now I’m all but certain if Brady leaves, Thuney will stay, if Tom stays I don’t see how they make it work to keep Thuney with the cap issues.
Thuney is going to be less keen to sign a long term deal if there's nothing there worth protecting.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 17, 2020, 01:02:55 PM
Guessing the market isn't too strong. He's looking more and more attractive.
If they're already moving off a second rounder, can a team beat an offer of the Giants third?
I really don't think so.
Spinning Leo for what we got and using the pick to bring in Trent would be a terrific bit of asset management.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2020, 01:04:40 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 17, 2020, 01:41:25 PM
I would do it for the Giants 3rd but I also think the Skins should be willing to take our 3rd to get the deal done. They don’t have much leverage here.They haven't had leverage this whole time, but they are seemingly content to wait until they get leverage. I wouldn't be shocked if this waits until after the draft when we see which teams were unable to fill their OT needs. It could very well be us, and then we may be roped into giving a 2nd-rounder next season.
Post by: MBGreen on March 17, 2020, 01:45:13 PM
They haven't had leverage this whole time, but they are seemingly content to wait until they get leverage. I wouldn't be shocked if this waits until after the draft when we see which teams were unable to fill their OT needs. It could very well be us, and then we may be roped into giving a 2nd-rounder next season.
if we come away from the draft without significantly addressing the oline...everyone should be fired. That is not an overreaction, i'm dead serious.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 17, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
if we come away from the draft without significantly addressing the oline...everyone should be fired. That is not an overreaction, i'm dead serious.There's levels to it though. If the top 4 tackles are gone before 11, we should probably draft another position, even if OT is a glaring need. Then maybe we shore up the interior OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and trade for Williams.
One thing we could potentially look into in that scenario is moving one of our 3rd-round picks for a 2nd-round pick next season. Then trading a 2021 2nd-round pick for Trent Williams wouldn't hurt quite as much.
Obviously, if the only things we do before Week 1 to address OL are to sign Fant, draft a guy in the 5th round, and add some camp fodder, that's a major problem.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 17, 2020, 01:55:10 PM
if we come away from the draft without significantly addressing the oline...everyone should be fired. That is not an overreaction, i'm dead serious.
Far be it from me to give a front office credit that we haven't seen yet.
But I'm willing to bet that they aren't stupid enough to understand that the line needs a major overhaul.
Post by: MBGreen on March 17, 2020, 02:02:58 PM
Far be it from me to give a front office credit that we haven't seen yet.
But I'm willing to bet that they aren't stupid enough to understand that the line needs a major overhaul.
I remember, man it's gotta be like 8 years now, since i last gave the Jets FO the benefit of the doubt.
Post by: MBGreen on March 17, 2020, 02:04:59 PM
There's levels to it though. If the top 4 tackles are gone before 11, we should probably draft another position, even if OT is a glaring need. Then maybe we shore up the interior OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and trade for Williams.
One thing we could potentially look into in that scenario is moving one of our 3rd-round picks for a 2nd-round pick next season. Then trading a 2021 2nd-round pick for Trent Williams wouldn't hurt quite as much.
Obviously, if the only things we do before Week 1 to address OL are to sign Fant, draft a guy in the 5th round, and add some camp fodder, that's a major problem.
Losing out on the top 4 OL is our collective worst nightmare right now.
I'm completely fine with trading one of our 3rds for Trent Williams...i think that's potential good business.
The last sentence in your post gave me hives.
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
They haven't had leverage this whole time, but they are seemingly content to wait until they get leverage. I wouldn't be shocked if this waits until after the draft when we see which teams were unable to fill their OT needs. It could very well be us, and then we may be roped into giving a 2nd-rounder next season.
Eh, I doubt that they would risk coming out of the draft still with Trent on their books and no teams left in need. They're trying to give Rivera what he needs to compete, I'm pretty sure they want the pick this April.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 17, 2020, 02:11:24 PM
Eh, I doubt that they would risk coming out of the draft still with Trent on their books and no teams left in need. They're trying to give Rivera what he needs to compete, I'm pretty sure they want the pick this April.Well, then they can have a 3rd-round pick then. I was just saying if they are obsessed with getting a 2nd, we might be able to trade down with one of our picks and get a 2021 2nd.
That said, I have a hard time thinking there is a team out there that wants to give a 2020 2nd-round pick just for the right to give a 32-year old OT $20 million a year who didn't play last season.
Post by: Jumbo on March 17, 2020, 03:08:38 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on March 17, 2020, 03:09:06 PM
Alex Lewis re-signed to 3 years, $18.6 million
Bye bye Bryan hopefully. GTFO.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
Bye bye Bryan hopefully. GTFO.
Winters won’t go anywhere until we either sign another OG OR draft one in round 2.
Hopefully we are still in on Van Roten and can send Winters off a cliff like we should be. Then we can turn our focus to the DBs and ship Roberts out on his derriere
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 17, 2020, 03:10:46 PM
Alex Lewis re-signed to 3 years, $18.6 million
Now this I like.
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 03:11:26 PM
Alex Lewis re-signed to 3 years, $18.6 million
Mediocre player who gives away too many penalties. Also now the best lineman on our books.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 03:12:59 PM
Damn good deal to bring back one guy who can start but also would be great depth if we can upgrade from him
Post by: Miamipuck on March 17, 2020, 03:13:04 PM
Alex Lewis re-signed to 3 years, $18.6 million
see and you faggots are whining about shoring up the OL, Douglas has already signed 2 stud olinemen.
Post by: reuben on March 17, 2020, 03:14:15 PM
Bye bye Bryan hopefully. GTFO.
We have three guards on the payroll, one of them is Ben Braden.
If we let go of Brian Winters, we're fucked. I hate the guy, but he's become absolutely essential over the past 24 hours.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 17, 2020, 03:14:56 PM
Mediocre player who gives away too many penalties. Also now the best lineman on our books.
Let me just reiterate: Who the freak is George (I had to actually go back and look up his first name) Fant?
Post by: Jumbo on March 17, 2020, 03:15:00 PM
see and you faggots are whining about shoring up the OL, Douglas has already signed 2 stud olinemen.
wheres my brent qvale re-sign
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 03:16:18 PM
Let me just reiterate: Who the freak is George (I had to actually go back and look up his first name) Fant?
Former basketball player who became a former tight end and then became a backup tackle used primarily in jumbo sets on one of the worst OLs in the league before becoming the star of the New York Jets' 2020 Free Agency.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2020, 03:17:25 PM
Former basketball player who became a former tight end and then became a backup tackle used primarily in jumbo sets on one of the worst OLs in the league before becoming the star of the New York Jets' 2020 Free Agency.
His final form is Jonathan Ogden
Post by: Jumbo on March 17, 2020, 03:18:25 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 03:19:58 PM
Bryan Bulaga also got 3 years 30 million lmao
Somehow Bulaga is only 30. That's a pretty good deal for the Chargers.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 17, 2020, 03:23:24 PM
Somehow Bulaga is only 30. That's a pretty good deal for the Chargers.
They're gonna need someone to block for Cam or Jameis, because that seems the obvious landing spot for either of the two once the Bolts miss out on Bardy tomorrow.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 17, 2020, 03:24:58 PM
His final form is Jonathan Ogden
That's the saddest thing I've read today.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 17, 2020, 03:29:56 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 03:34:16 PM
I like the Alex Lewis resigning. Thought he was the best of our guards last season.
Kinda like how crabs was the best of the STDs I got in my twenties.
Post by: MBGreen on March 17, 2020, 03:39:04 PM
I like the Alex Lewis resigning. Thought he was the best of our guards last season.
I don't like a single thing about our oline last year. Not sure how anyone can.
Post by: Miamipuck on March 17, 2020, 03:39:04 PM
Kinda like how crabs was the best of the STDs I got in my twenties.
So you like the signing as well.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 17, 2020, 03:43:48 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2020, 03:55:41 PM
Yes nothing has been exciting so far. Final product is not final.
What? George Fant is evolving!
Post by: bojanglesman on March 17, 2020, 03:57:37 PM
What? George Fant is evolving!Fart will become a crop duster.
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 04:51:22 PM
Quote
Jeremy Fowler @JFowlerESPN
Cowboys are not picking up OT Cam Fleming's option year, per source. Veteran tackle with starter's experience will be a free agent.
He's not great, but he's got to be an option.
Post by: reuben on March 17, 2020, 05:14:25 PM
Quote
The Athletic's Connor Hughes reports the Redskins are "pretty set" on a second-round pick in exchange for LT Trent Williams.
A Jets reporter, Hughes believes this has Gang Green out of the running for Washington's longtime left tackle. Williams is also believed to be seeking a $20-million-per-year extension. A second-round pick is a perfectly reasonable demand, but Washington was much more likely to get that last year. Instead, they were pigheaded and forced Williams to sit out.
I'm desperately willing to overpay for linemen, but not with high draft capital. We need that for linemen.
How about a third this year and a 2021 conditional pick?
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
Details coming soon (I’m sure)
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 17, 2020, 05:30:00 PM
Who?
Post by: bojanglesman on March 17, 2020, 05:31:03 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 17, 2020, 05:31:25 PM
Jets sign Connor McGovern.Dude.
Who?
Post by: bojanglesman on March 17, 2020, 05:31:55 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 05:32:10 PM
I'm desperately willing to overpay for linemen, but not with high draft capital. We need that for linemen.
How about a third this year and a 2021 conditional pick?
I think we are out on Williams unless he’s coming for below market value, IE Washington is trying to give him away 4th or later. We are giving Fant $10 million to be a starter or at worst top swing tackle. I think we want that rookie OT. I can see us making that trade for Williams on draft day if we can’t get our guy at 11.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 05:32:39 PM
The Jets and C Connor McGovern agreed to a 3-year, $27 million deal, per source #nyj
$9 million per for a starting C? Sounds good to me.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 17, 2020, 05:33:08 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 05:35:41 PM
Love the contracts. Certainly I’d rather have true studs, but 3 solid guys is better than nothing.
Here’s hoping Van Roten still gets brought in. Supposedly us Vs Bills for him now
Post by: mj2sexay on March 17, 2020, 05:41:10 PM
$18 million in guarantees. Locks him in for 2 years, 3rd year is a drop dead for free (I’d assume). Makes sense we’d give him more guarantees since he’s more of a sure thing, and yet it’s still only a 2 year deal. All 3 deals we can get out of quickly if they go belly up.
Love the contracts. Certainly I’d rather have true studs, but 3 solid guys is better than nothing.
Here’s hoping Van Roten still gets brought in. Supposedly us Vs Bills for him now
They bring in Van Roten and I consider the interior line dealt with. Get Winters the freak outta here at that point.
I know it's comparing a guard to a center, but I'd much rather have McGovern at his salary than what the Fins paid that piece of excrement Erick Flowers.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
They bring in Van Roten and I consider the interior line dealt with. Get Winters the freak outta here at that point.
I know it's comparing a guard to a center, but I'd much rather have McGovern at his salary than what the Fins paid that piece of excrement Erick Flowers.
Idk what Van Rotens market value is, but given we are paying Winters 7.5 this year, I’d go up to 9 (this year) for him and kick Winters to the curb. I am so ready to be done with him.
Ridiculous question, does he have any trade value at all? If we signed VR and could trade winters for a 5 that would be mind blowingly awesome
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 05:49:25 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2020, 05:49:55 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2020, 05:50:08 PM
Is van Roten that good? I haven't heard people raving about him.
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1239564698040836097?s=21
Post by: mj2sexay on March 17, 2020, 05:51:18 PM
Is van Roten that good? I haven't heard people raving about him.
Solid. Wouldn't call him exceptional. Very good in the passing game which I think is the difference between him and Peat.
Certainly an upgrade over what they had last year in Winters/Compton, but then an amusement park turnstile would've offered Sam the same level of protection as those two did.
Post by: reuben on March 17, 2020, 06:00:57 PM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1239564698040836097?s=21
I like McGovern's position on that chart.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 17, 2020, 06:03:35 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Sign Peat and Van Roten
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2020, 06:13:14 PM
LT: George Fant
LG: Alex Lewis
C: Connor McGovern
RG: Brian Winters
RT: Chuma Edoga
This looks a lot less shitty than this morning
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 06:14:09 PM
Updated #Jets offensive line
LT: George Fant
LG: Alex Lewis
C: Connor McGovern
RG: Brian Winters
RT: Chuma Edoga
This looks a lot less shitty than this morning
It looks like we've upgraded one position.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
We're finally building an actual zone blocking line. It's probably a big reason why they have faith in Chuma Edoga because he is athletic and has good feet.
Highly unlikely that Douglas has Mekhi Becton at the top of his wishlist. He probably prefers Wirfs and Wills.
Wouldn't be surprised if he really likes Cesar Ruiz and Josh Jones.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:15:43 PM
It looks like we've upgraded one position.
If we're building on outside zone, Fant is a better fit than Beachum.
Not a better player, but schematically a much better fit.
The McGovern signing can fix a whole lot of problems we've seen up front.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:17:40 PM
Hopefully we draft a speed back that can actual make some use out of it. Le'Veon Bell is not great at it.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2020, 06:18:12 PM
It looks like we've upgraded one position.
Lewis was a FA though. If he walked there’s no guarantee we even maintain status quo.
Looking at his PFF grade, he was decent in pass pro and horrible in run blocking. Everyone on the 2019 probably got a horrendous run blocking grade because the unit as a whole was awful. Now we’ve upgraded the position to his right, and if we can land a LT at 11, I’m sure Lewis will be better this season.
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 06:18:16 PM
If we're building on outside zone, Fant is a better fit than Beachum.
Not a better player, but schematically a much better fit.
The McGovern signing can fix a whole lot of problems we've seen up front.
Oh god, we're building a line for Gase to call a million screens, aren't we?
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 06:18:46 PM
Douglas clearly has a particular type of lineman that he's looking for.
We're finally building an actual zone blocking line. It's probably a big reason why they have faith in Chuma Edoga because he is athletic and has good feet.
Highly unlikely that Douglas has Mekhi Becton at the top of his wishlist. He probably prefers Wirfs and Wills.
Wouldn't be surprised if he really likes Cesar Ruiz and Josh Jones.
I think Becton is going off the board as OT1 or OT2.
Everyone knows I’d love Wirfs. But how does Thomas fit with this scheme? Since it feels likely he is Ot4 to be drafted and likely the guy we have the choice of.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:20:42 PM
Oh god, we're building a line for Gase to call a million screens, aren't we?
We're building a line that fits the scheme, finally.
RPO will be huge. We won't see a lot of isolation or power football. It will be a lot of stretch plays.
You absolutely cannot be good at zone football if you're constantly reshuffling your pieces like we had to in 2019.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:21:29 PM
Lewis was a FA though. If he walked there’s no guarantee we even maintain status quo.
Looking at his PFF grade, he was decent in pass pro and horrible in run blocking. Everyone on the 2019 probably got a horrendous run blocking grade because the unit as a whole was awful. Now we’ve upgraded the position to his right, and if we can land a LT at 11, I’m sure Lewis will be better this season.
Our OL sucked derriere in 2019 but Le'Veon Bell's running style also kills run blocking efficiency.
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 06:21:53 PM
We're building a line that fits the scheme, finally.
RPO will be huge. We won't see a lot of isolation or power football. It will be a lot of stretch plays.
You absolutely cannot be good at zone football if you're constantly reshuffling your pieces like we had to in 2019.
Awesome, good job we have a quarterback built to make big runs.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:23:20 PM
I think Becton is going off the board as OT1 or OT2.
Everyone knows I’d love Wirfs. But how does Thomas fit with this scheme? Since it feels likely he is Ot4 to be drafted and likely the guy we have the choice of.
Thomas is not a great fit in a zone blocking scheme. I think he'd have to move to the right side to be successful in it.
Ezra Cleveland and Josh Jones are two tackles that I could see Douglas being high on. As of right now, I think wide receiver is our biggest need and will be the BPA at 11.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 06:23:32 PM
Prepare yourselves to hear me bitch and moan about outside zone, because I freaking hate it.
Hopefully we draft a speed back that can actual make some use out of it. Le'Veon Bell is not great at it.
Name backs that fit the mold that we might draft. I’m assuming Dobbins and Akers don’t fit this mold well, but can in fact due it on occasion
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:23:56 PM
Awesome, good job we have a quarterback built to make big runs.
The biggest misconception is that a QB runs on an RPO.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 17, 2020, 06:25:41 PM
Thomas is not a great fit in a zone blocking scheme. I think he'd have to move to the right side to be successful in it.
Ezra Cleveland and Josh Jones are two tackles that I could see Douglas being high on. As of right now, I think wide receiver is our biggest need and will be the BPA at 11.
If we are dead set on Wirfs/Wills or any one guy really, do you think we are gonna move up to get one of them? Or are we going to drop back if they are gone and look to fill other needs? WR or possibly even Ruiz if we drop down with Someone in the 20s
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:25:46 PM
Name backs that fit the mold that we might draft. I’m assuming Dobbins and Akers don’t fit this mold well, but can in fact due it on occasion
JK Dobbins is a zone back. We can't afford to spend a high pick on a running back.
Anthony McFarland and Darrynton Evans would be solid options.
Corey Clement is a free agent and would be a solid pickup for us.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:26:58 PM
If we are dead set on Wirfs/Wills or any one guy really, do you think we are gonna move up to get one of them? Or are we going to drop back if they are gone and look to fill other needs? WR or possibly even Ruiz if we drop down with Someone in the 20s
Free Agency will tell us more about other positions, mainly EDGE, WR, and CB.
If we can plug those holes with stopgaps and bargain deals, trading up a few spots to get Wirfs or Wills makes a ton of sense.
Post by: Jumbo on March 17, 2020, 06:28:25 PM
Thomas is not a great fit in a zone blocking scheme. I think he'd have to move to the right side to be successful in it.
Ezra Cleveland and Josh Jones are two tackles that I could see Douglas being high on. As of right now, I think wide receiver is our biggest need and will be the BPA at 11.
bring back robby, draft jeudy/lamb, take josh jones in the second,,,,
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:29:56 PM
bring back robby, draft jeudy/lamb, take josh jones in the second,,,,
Lamb is the best fit in Gase's offense. I think if Robby signs elsewhere, we'll heavily consider Henry Ruggs.
Josh Jones or Ezra Cleveland in the second.
Post by: Johnny English on March 17, 2020, 06:30:14 PM
The biggest misconception is that a QB runs on an RPO.
I understand what an RPO is, but in the NFL we have primarily seen it used by teams where the keeper is a viable third option because NFL defenses are capable of accounting for more than one thing. Sam is a good scrambler and he's athletic and smart enough to run to the outside and pick up 10 when the opportunity presents itself, but teams will rightly not respect the QB run against us.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:32:07 PM
I understand what an RPO is, but in the NFL we have primarily seen it used by teams where the keeper is a viable third option because NFL defenses are capable of accounting for more than one thing. Sam is a good scrambler and he's athletic and smart enough to run to the outside and pick up 10 when the opportunity presents itself, but teams will rightly not respect the QB run against us.
With a zone blocking scheme, you can disguise it a lot easier. Sam would only have to read the front and one linebacker.
If we can effectively block the outside zone and we get Bell going, a slant read will be deadly. Ryan Tannehill is very good at it.
You can take guys out of the box with it.
Post by: Jumbo on March 17, 2020, 06:33:00 PM
Lamb is the best fit in Gase's offense. I think if Robby signs elsewhere, we'll heavily consider Henry Ruggs.
Josh Jones or Ezra Cleveland in the second.
Not too high on Ruggs for us if Robby doesn't come back, my guess is the FO feels the same with the links to Dorsett - but I agree that Lamb should be the top target at WR
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:33:58 PM
Not too high on Ruggs for us if Robby doesn't come back
Why not?
He doesn't compliment Anderson. He's essentially a more well-rounded speed threat.
Post by: Jumbo on March 17, 2020, 06:37:57 PM
Why not?
He doesn't compliment Anderson. He's essentially a more well-rounded speed threat.
I meant whether RA comes back or not - doesn't seem like it's something Gase's offense would value highly in general. Same reason the main reason to bring Robby back is continuity and chemistry, not necessarily that he's a great fit with the offense or a great WR.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 17, 2020, 06:41:26 PM
I meant whether RA comes back or not - doesn't seem like it's something Gase's offense would value highly in general. Same reason the main reason to bring Robby back is continuity and chemistry, not necessarily that he's a great fit with the offense or a great WR.
Do you think Ruggs is just a deep threat or something?
Honestly curious how you view him as a prospect.
He's every bit as polished as Jerry Jeudy as a route runner. Didn't think that would be the case, but they are on the same level. Both are better route runners than Ceedee Lamb.
Lamb is just the best YAC player and we currently don't have one of those.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2020, 08:30:32 PM
Our OL sucked derriere in 2019 but Le'Veon Bell's running style also kills run blocking efficiency.
I agree with this. Bell looked better earlier in the year when the line was more intact though. Hopefully we’ll see a combination of Bell adapting his running story to the system and Gase figuring out how to use Bell’s strengths.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2020, 09:24:57 PM
Post by: Badger on March 17, 2020, 09:44:18 PM
Hopefully we’ll see a combination of Bell adapting his running style to the system and Gase figuring out how to use Bell’s strengths.
Deep down you know neither one of these things will happen.
Post by: Miamipuck on March 17, 2020, 10:19:18 PM
Deep down you know neither one of these things will happen.
I don't think you have to go soul searching to figure that one out.
Post by: Badger on March 17, 2020, 10:25:08 PM
I don't think you have to go soul searching to figure that one out.Chance of a running back changing his style: <5%
Chance of an NFL head coach admitting his system isn't perfect: <1%
Post by: Miamipuck on March 17, 2020, 10:47:58 PM
Chance of a running back changing his style: <5%
Chance of an NFL head coach admitting his system isn't perfect: <1%
deep down you know those numbers are a little inflated.
Post by: Badger on March 17, 2020, 10:52:36 PM
deep down you know those numbers are a little inflated.What can I say, I'm an optimist.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2020, 05:50:44 AM
Deep down you know neither one of these things will happen.
Guess I’ll just have to rely on George Fant to take this OL to the next level
Post by: bojanglesman on March 18, 2020, 06:02:02 AM
Guess I’ll just have to rely on George Fant to take this OL to the next levelYou're cancelled from the Fart party.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 18, 2020, 06:19:05 AM
Chance of a running back changing his style: <5%
Chance of an NFL head coach admitting his system isn't perfect: <1%
Yeah but at least we can count on our OC to show them both the error of their ways
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2020, 08:11:25 AM
Yeah but at least we can count on our OC to show them both the error of their ways
If all that fails at least we have a reliable QB coach to work with Sam
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2020, 08:48:43 AM
Yeah but at least we can count on our OC to show them both the error of their waysDowel Logjams is hard at work on the vaccine right now
Post by: Miamipuck on March 18, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Dowel Logjams is hard at work on the vaccine right now
Then fire him for not massaging Darnold's balls.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 18, 2020, 05:11:51 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2020, 05:36:52 PM
I just really hope we sign Van Roten so we can release Brian Winters
Soon.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 18, 2020, 05:37:40 PM
I just really hope we sign Van Roten so we can release Brian Winters🤞
Post by: Johnny English on March 18, 2020, 05:42:01 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 18, 2020, 05:51:58 PM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1240385655689097216?s=21
Sign him and cut Winters twice
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2020, 06:12:15 PM
I hope we keep Winters and start him and he plays well and you all have to eat your words.
You’re just opening yourself up for the Gase replies.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 18, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
Josh Kline released from Vikings
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1240385655689097216?s=21
Sign him and cut Winters twice
I’d happily take Kline.
Post by: Johnny English on March 18, 2020, 06:21:24 PM
You’re just opening yourself up for the Gase replies.
Not really, nothing would make me happier than to eat my words on Gase and the offense suddenly become a well oiled machine. It won't, but I'll gladly suck it up if it does.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 18, 2020, 06:58:19 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200319/89fdcb33a2a968987275be5779cefd52.jpg)
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 18, 2020, 07:47:08 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 19, 2020, 01:49:36 PM
I hope we keep Winters and start him and he plays well and you all have to eat your words.
I hate Winters more than and think he's more toxic to the team than Adam Gase.
That he sucks is bad enough, but he could go All-Pro and I'd still never forgive the excrement he pulled on Sam last season.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 19, 2020, 01:53:21 PM
I hate Winters more than and think he's more toxic to the team than Adam Gase.
That he sucks is bad enough, but he could go All-Pro and I'd still never forgive the excrement he pulled on Sam last season.
Annoyingly enough no one in the building seems to give a freak about that
Post by: mj2sexay on March 19, 2020, 01:55:19 PM
As a reminder, the excrement he pulled on Sam was a week or two after he blatantly missed Sam making an adjustment on the line and got him freaking killed.
Post by: Johnny English on March 19, 2020, 02:09:29 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on March 19, 2020, 02:10:45 PM
I honestly have no recollection of this happening. What game are we talking about?
The Dolphins debacle.
Post by: Johnny English on March 19, 2020, 02:18:14 PM
The Dolphins debacle.
Googled it. Found some news reports but not seeing video of the incident.
It's not that unusual for team mates to lose their excrement with each other every now and again, and although it's not fun to see as you're losing to a zero win team and staring down the barrel of 1-7, it's not necessarily the end of the world. I think their relationship in the locker room, on the practice field and everywhere other than the spotlight of a Sunday afternoon is what really matters more than a single ugly spat in public.
Sam Darnold is not a kid any more and although we all love and want to protect him like he came from our own loins, the fact is that he's a grown man and a leader of the team. I'm sure he can handle the big bad bald man with the tattoos just fine without our help, and if he wants him gone I'm sure he will be.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 19, 2020, 02:21:16 PM
Googled it. Found some news reports but not seeing video of the incident.Exactly. If you don't like Winters because he's not that good, that's fine, and I get it. The Darnold thing is irrelevant, unless there are further issues. Tensions get high on the football field all the time. From all indications, Darnold and Winters are good. If they weren't good, Winters would already be gone.
It's not that unusual for team mates to lose their excrement with each other every now and again, and although it's not fun to see as you're losing to a zero win team and staring down the barrel of 1-7, it's not necessarily the end of the world. I think their relationship in the locker room, on the practice field and everywhere other than the spotlight of a Sunday afternoon is what really matters more than a single ugly spat in public.
Sam Darnold is not a kid any more and although we all love and want to protect him like he came from our own loins, the fact is that he's a grown man and a leader of the team. I'm sure he can handle the big bad bald man with the tattoos just fine without our help, and if he wants him gone I'm sure he will be.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 19, 2020, 05:02:03 PM
Just because Winters is here today doesn't mean he'll be here the day the next season starts.
Post by: delavan on March 19, 2020, 06:47:31 PM
Googled it. Found some news reports but not seeing video of the incident.Except it didn't end up a 'singular' ugly spat but instead continued afterwards on the sidelines as well. From the playing field where Winters dressed down his quarterback in full view of all (i.e. their opponents), he continued to act like a full-fledged queynte by dismissively rejecting Darnold's (mature) attempts to engage him and straighten things out. Further to that end, Adam Gase (or a veteran) should've stepped in at that point and told Winters to put a sock in it as Winters continued to be about Winters.
It's not that unusual for team mates to lose their excrement with each other every now and again, and although it's not fun to see as you're losing to a zero win team and staring down the barrel of 1-7, it's not necessarily the end of the world. I think their relationship in the locker room, on the practice field and everywhere other than the spotlight of a Sunday afternoon is what really matters more than a single ugly spat in public.
Sam Darnold is not a kid any more and although we all love and want to protect him like he came from our own loins, the fact is that he's a grown man and a leader of the team. I'm sure he can handle the big bad bald man with the tattoos just fine without our help, and if he wants him gone I'm sure he will be.
Exactly. If you don't like Winters because he's not that good, that's fine, and I get it. The Darnold thing is irrelevant, unless there are further issues. Tensions get high on the football field all the time. From all indications, Darnold and Winters are good. If they weren't good, Winters would already be gone.Irrelevant? I get it that Sam is a big boy and that players occasionally snap at each other in the heat of the moment (e.g. DBs over a blown coverage), however I wouldn't care if Darnold had called Winters' mother a whore because the fact remains: you never light-up your QB, your offensive unit's linchpin & leader and esp. in front of your opponents. If anything it's the other way around (and in the 'privacy' of the huddle/sidelines). And if "from all indications Darnold and Winters are good" well that may be--may be. That Winters is still here may speak to the OL's dire condition. Besides, Darnold (who was attempting to be the "bigger man" on the sidelines) doesn't strike me as the blackballing type. Yes, Sam's a big boy. But Winters that day both on the field and especially on the sidelines afterwards is not a guy I'd want to be in the proverbial foxhole with. Sorry for my poorly-worded rambling, but that day still bugs me (an admitted Sam fanboi from his pre-Rose Bowl days).
Post by: Pope on March 19, 2020, 06:58:46 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 19, 2020, 07:52:00 PM
I suspect that Winters thing is a whole lot made of nothing. Probably tempers for a minute or two but I dont think it was anything too major. We need as much help as we can get on the OL and I’m not sure I’m ready to dump OL over hurt feelings.
But I would dump him over a draft pick. Not that we can be certain he has trade value, but I imagine he has some. Starting Og with years of experience, on a cheap one year deal you don’t have to keep him if it’s not working? That’s probably worth something on the market.
Post by: Pope on March 19, 2020, 07:52:55 PM
But I would dump him over a draft pick. Not that we can be certain he has trade value, but I imagine he has some. Starting Og with years of experience, on a cheap one year deal you don’t have to keep him if it’s not working? That’s probably worth something on the market.Sure, I agree. I don’t want to just release him for the hell of it is my point
Post by: bojanglesman on March 19, 2020, 08:23:29 PM
But I would dump him over a draft pick. Not that we can be certain he has trade value, but I imagine he has some. Starting Og with years of experience, on a cheap one year deal you don’t have to keep him if it’s not working? That’s probably worth something on the market.He isn't cheap for what he is. Maybe the Jets could pay part of his salary to trade him for a pick. I'm fine keeping him too until we find someone better.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 19, 2020, 08:47:59 PM
He isn't cheap for what he is. Maybe the Jets could pay part of his salary to trade him for a pick. I'm fine keeping him too until we find someone better.
7.5 million for a starting guard with no guaranteed money would work for most guards
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 19, 2020, 10:55:44 PM
But Winters that day both on the field and especially on the sidelines afterwards is not a guy I'd want to be in the proverbial foxhole with. Sorry for my poorly-worded rambling, but that day still bugs me (an admitted Sam fanboi from his pre-Rose Bowl days).I think Sam Darnold knows which guys he would want to be in a proverbial foxhole with. I don't know if Winters would be there or not, but that's up to him and the team. You can dislike what happened, but it's only relevant if Sam thinks it's relevant, and none of us know that.
The biggest question is: if Brian Winters were a free agent that you could sign for 1 year and $7M with $0 guaranteed, would you do it? If Winters is healthy, that's probably about what he is worth, and we can get out of the deal without paying a dime if he doesn't look good in camp. There isn't a downside to keeping him unless you need to use that money elsewhere.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 19, 2020, 11:00:59 PM
If Winters is healthy, that's probably about what he is worth
Tom Compton got $3M from San Francisco and he's not that much worse than Winters as this point.
Winters is worth no more than $5M a season. The dude is a scrub that cannot stay healthy. He's also not a great fit in the zone scheme.
Douglas is actively trying to replace him. He wanted Stefan Wisniewski, but he opted to sign with his hometown team (Pittsburgh) to finish up his career. Van Roten will hopefully sign here so we can move on from Winters.
Lewis and Van Roten are decent stop-gaps. Louisiana-Lafayette's Robert Hunt is the kind of player I think Douglas will place a very high grade on. He should be a target for us in the second round. Cesar Ruiz is someone we could consider in a trade back scenario.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 19, 2020, 11:08:08 PM
Tom Compton got $3M from San Francisco and he's not that much worse than Winters as this point.I agree that $7M may be a touch high, but you're also likely not signing that guy with $0 guaranteed.
Winters is worth no more than $5M a season. The dude is a scrub that cannot stay healthy. He's also not a great fit in the zone scheme.
Douglas is actively trying to replace him. He wanted Stefan Wisniewski, but he opted to sign with his hometown team (Pittsburgh) to finish up his career. Van Roten will hopefully sign here so we can move on from Winters.
Lewis and Van Roten are decent stop-gaps. Louisiana-Lafayette's Robert Hunt is the kind of player I think Douglas will place a very high grade on. He should be a target for us in the second round. Cesar Ruiz is someone we could consider in a trade back scenario.
I don't want Winters to start next year, and a large part of that is I don't trust him to stay healthy. I've wanted OL help as much as anyone. I hope we draft 2-3 offensive linemen in this draft and/or make another dip into the FA/trade pool. But for now, he's a fine placeholder, and worst case scenario, he can compete for the job in camp if the draft doesn't fall the way we want it to. That's the worst case scenario, but completely fixing this roster also isn't a one-year project.
Post by: Miamipuck on March 20, 2020, 12:20:36 AM
I suspect that Winters thing is a whole lot made of nothing. Probably tempers for a minute or two but I dont think it was anything too major. We need as much help as we can get on the OL and I’m not sure I’m ready to dump OL over hurt feelings.
Googled it. Found some news reports but not seeing video of the incident.
It's not that unusual for team mates to lose their excrement with each other every now and again, and although it's not fun to see as you're losing to a zero win team and staring down the barrel of 1-7, it's not necessarily the end of the world. I think their relationship in the locker room, on the practice field and everywhere other than the spotlight of a Sunday afternoon is what really matters more than a single ugly spat in public.
Sam Darnold is not a kid any more and although we all love and want to protect him like he came from our own loins, the fact is that he's a grown man and a leader of the team. I'm sure he can handle the big bad bald man with the tattoos just fine without our help, and if he wants him gone I'm sure he will be.
This is where I am. I have been on quite a few teams where there were arguments. It's no big deal if it's heat of the moment excrement. I dint know where Sam sits with all of that, if he was that aggravated with Winters, Winters would have been gone months ago.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 20, 2020, 12:39:30 AM
Post by: delavan on March 20, 2020, 10:50:13 AM
I think Sam Darnold knows which guys he would want to be in a proverbial foxhole with. I don't know if Winters would be there or not, but that's up to him and the team. You can dislike what happened, but it's only relevant if Sam thinks it's relevant, and none of us know that.Point taken, and indeed Winters is Sam's call (and Darnold doesn't appear the blackballing type). Aside from the "in full view" optics, Winters crossed a line and as a vet all the more reason he shouldn't have gone there let alone continued it on the sideline--and with that I'll stop belaboring the point.
The biggest question is: if Brian Winters were a free agent that you could sign for 1 year and $7M with $0 guaranteed, would you do it? If Winters is healthy, that's probably about what he is worth, and we can get out of the deal without paying a dime if he doesn't look good in camp. There isn't a downside to keeping him unless you need to use that money elsewhere.
As for the bigger $7M FA question, 3 yrs. ago yes but not now. While he gutted it out playing with the abdominal injury (no pun), he's also starting to rack up a number of years ending the season on IR.
Post by: delavan on March 20, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Louisiana-Lafayette's Robert Hunt is the kind of player I think Douglas will place a very high grade on. He should be a target for us in the second round. Cesar Ruiz is someone we could consider in a trade back scenario.Hunt: from your keyboard to Douglas' draft board. A question: why's his linemate Kevin Dotson not getting much attention? Granted Hunt's a more polished beast but still, Dotson was a 1st team AP All-American and a Shrine Bowl invitee yet did not receive a combine invite in Indy. Enough upside to warrant a later round flyer?
Post by: Heismanberg on March 20, 2020, 11:18:27 AM
Hunt: from your keyboard to Douglas' draft board. A question: why's his linemate Kevin Dotson not getting much attention? Granted Hunt's a more polished beast but still, Dotson was a 1st team AP All-American and a Shrine Bowl invitee yet did not receive a combine invite in Indy. Enough upside to warrant a later round flyer?
Dotson is one of the biggest combine snubs in recent memory.
Just found out through some research that both Hunt and Dotson will be 24 year old rookies. Yikes.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 20, 2020, 12:36:16 PM
Dotson is one of the biggest combine snubs in recent memory.
Just found out through some research that both Hunt and Dotson will be 24 year old rookies. Yikes.
(https://www-nydailynews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/www.nydailynews.com/resizer/_2jtmk-OfJhyCOiMRLhdAX72_vM=/1400x0/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/YUS7QVOYMC5RZ2XQ7Z76CTYSYY.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on March 20, 2020, 12:50:02 PM
Saints just gave him a massive deal
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 20, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
NSFNYJFs
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 21, 2020, 06:05:57 PM
LT George Fant
LG Alex Lewis
C Connor McGovern
RG Greg Van Roten
RT Chuma Edoga
Backups
Josh Andrews
Conor McDermott
Jonotthan Harrison
Ben Braden
Brian Winters
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 21, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 21, 2020, 06:16:47 PM
Hard to see us drafting more than two offensive linemen anymore. Running out of roster spots. They might just draft someone at 11 and call it a day.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 21, 2020, 06:18:59 PM
We already have six offensive line roster spots basically locked up. Ben Braden and Conor McDermott were both brought in or resigned by Douglas at some point. Jonotthan Harrison is also a decent backup. Most of our guys are relatively young, too, even though GVR is 30.
Hard to see us drafting more than two offensive linemen anymore. Running out of roster spots. They might just draft someone at 11 and call it a day.
You can ALWAYS draft a Gord in the latter rounds
Post by: Heismanberg on March 21, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
We already have six offensive line roster spots basically locked up. Ben Braden and Conor McDermott were both brought in or resigned by Douglas at some point. Jonotthan Harrison is also a decent backup. Most of our guys are relatively young, too, even though GVR is 30.
Hard to see us drafting more than two offensive linemen anymore. Running out of roster spots. They might just draft someone at 11 and call it a day.
Lewis is not a lock. He can’t stay healthy and his contract is much like Fant’s where we can get out of it after one season.
I think we will draft a tackle and an interior lineman.
McGovern and Van Roten can both play multiple positions. Harrison and Andrews give us strong depth at the IOL spots.
We are very thin at tackle.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 21, 2020, 06:24:52 PM
Lewis is not a lock. He can’t stay healthy and his contract is much like Fant’s where we can get out of it after one season.
I think we will draft a tackle and an interior lineman.
McGovern and Van Roten can both play multiple positions. Harrison and Andrews give us strong depth at the IOL spots.
We are very thin at tackle.
I’ve always thought the plan was 2 OL, one OT and one interior.
I’ll be curious to see the numbers for GVR, but man has Douglas done a masterful job reworking the OL room this week. 5 OL deals? That’s got to be virtually unheard of. Glad he won’t stand for a bullshit OL in front of Sam any longer.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 21, 2020, 06:26:51 PM
He values athleticism, toughness, and versatility.
We have a zone blocking OL now across the depth chart. No more square peg, round hole types.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 21, 2020, 06:28:19 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 21, 2020, 06:32:04 PM
I really think Douglas covets Tristan Wirfs. Wouldn’t be shocked if he tried to move up for him.
He values athleticism, toughness, and versatility.
We have a zone blocking OL now across the depth chart. No more square peg, round hole types.
I have been in love with Wirfs for a long time, so you are preaching to the choir. If he makes it to Carolina at 7 I can see Douglas pull the trigger for one of our 3rd.
If he does move up though, I’d bet the farm he tries like hell to trade out of 48. Barring a guy dropping who has no business being there (Ruiz, Jefferson, Mims)
Post by: Libero_2 on March 21, 2020, 06:32:48 PM
These guys we are signing need to have young draft picks behind them ready to take over in 1-3 years. Build the wall.
I expect 3-5 OL will be selected in the 2020 and 2021 drafts. Not 1 total in 3 straight ala Duff
Post by: bojanglesman on March 21, 2020, 06:37:28 PM
Doug: gord.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 21, 2020, 06:47:11 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 21, 2020, 06:54:41 PM
Offer Carolina the Giants' 3rd to swap picks with them. Draft your tackle.
That’s what I think JDs current plan is, if his guy is on the clock (Heis and I think it’s Wirfs) those guys are desperate to add assets, so if we are the only offer I’d bet they take it
Post by: bojanglesman on March 21, 2020, 06:56:18 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 21, 2020, 06:57:42 PM
That’s what I think JDs current plan is, if his guy is on the clock (Heis and I think it’s Wirfs) those guys are desperate to add assets, so if we are the only offer I’d bet they take it
I just don't think Becton and Thomas fit the profile. I love Becton and think he'll be an absolutely dominant player but he does not fit the mold of what Douglas seems to want in an offensive lineman.
Wirfs is the ideal fit. Wills is a close second.
Ezra Cleveland and Josh Jones are fits as well (if we move back) or take another position in the first round.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 21, 2020, 06:59:02 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 21, 2020, 07:07:29 PM
Maybe we could get some cheese dust in a trade for Winters.
I think we might be able to get a 6th for him. Starting OG on a deal that you could easily rework. There aren’t really any starting capable OGs left on the market. If you want one, give us something for Winters. Heck last year we paid a conditional 7th for Alex Lewis, so I have to assume someone would give us a similar deal for Winters.
He’s not Roberts, a guy who might not even get a job next year
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 21, 2020, 08:37:01 PM
1st round rookie + Fant/Edoga starting = not bad
Post by: dcm1602 on March 21, 2020, 08:38:57 PM
Fant + Edoga starting = not good
1st round rookie + Fant/Edoga starting = not bad
Exactly
Our OL is still dog excrement
Lewis was a liability in the run game
And we have no good tackles
Our OL has vastly improved
And is still bad
Post by: Heismanberg on March 21, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
Exactly
Our OL is still dog excrement
Lewis was a liability in the run game
And we have no good tackles
Our OL has vastly improved
And is still bad
We don’t really know what we have at tackle
Post by: dcm1602 on March 21, 2020, 10:42:30 PM
We don’t reslly know what we have at tackle
Well we have a fairly good idea of what Edoga is. Fart is certainly an unknown/calculated risk. But I think it's hard to say we should feel more comfortable with Fart and Edoga than we did with Beachum edoga and Shell
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 21, 2020, 10:50:57 PM
Well we have a fairly good idea of what Edoga is. Fart is certainly an unknown/calculated risk. But I think it's hard to say we should feel more comfortable with Fart and Edoga than we did with Beachum edoga and Shell
Edoga is a rookie that played half a season on a horrid oline and had to switch back and forth from RT to LT. He shut down Demarcus Lawrence for an entire game but I don’t see anyone mention that because the narrative that he’s trash is much easier to write. We have no idea what he is.
Heis is right.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 21, 2020, 11:32:07 PM
Or Fant could remain inconsistent, and Edoga never develops, and neither one is good.
Both of those guys are question marks. Both have the ability to answer those questions, but they haven't proven it yet.
Saying we know what Edoga is is a ridiculous statement.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 22, 2020, 12:11:30 AM
Well we have a fairly good idea of what Edoga is. Fart is certainly an unknown/calculated risk. But I think it's hard to say we should feel more comfortable with Fart and Edoga than we did with Beachum edoga and Shell
Beachum was not a good fit in a zone scheme. We played musical chairs at center and guard. The line had absolutely no cohesion and several of the starters (Osemele, Beachum, Shell, and Winters) were awful fits for a stretch zone based team.
That "fart" excrement is already ridiculously overdone already. Shut the freak up with that lame derriere excrement.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 22, 2020, 12:37:21 AM
Post by: Jumbo on March 22, 2020, 12:52:24 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 22, 2020, 12:59:09 AM
Tackle
Tristan Wirfs
Jedrick Wills
Josh Jones
Ezra Cleveland
Prince Tega Wanogho
Austin Jackson
Matt Peart
Interior Linemen
Cesar Ruiz
Jonah Jackson
Matt Hennessy
Robert Hunt
Darryl Williams
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 22, 2020, 02:52:32 AM
Imagine a whole season of:
"Jets' Prince (no, the other one)..."
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 22, 2020, 09:25:32 AM
Here's a list of linemen prospects that fit into the mold of what Joe Douglas seems to be looking for in offensive linemen:
Tackle
Tristan Wirfs
Jedrick Wills
Josh Jones
Ezra Cleveland
Prince Tega Wanogho
Austin Jackson
Matt Peart
Interior Linemen
Cesar Ruiz
Jonah Jackson
Matt Hennessy
Robert Hunt
Darryl Williams
No Andrew Thomas? If he's there at #11 would you take him?
Post by: MBGreen on March 22, 2020, 10:08:15 AM
Stay at 11. Keep the picks.This
And Wirfs has been at the top of my board since January
Post by: Johnny English on March 22, 2020, 10:19:21 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 22, 2020, 10:37:09 AM
No Andrew Thomas? If he's there at #11 would you take him?
Andrew Thomas is not a good fit in our scheme and would be more of a right tackle (which is a need for us).
But to answer your question, I would take the best available receiver over Andrew Thomas. I would take the other three tackles over any receiver.
It's not that Thomas isn't good. He just isn't a good fit.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 22, 2020, 10:47:18 AM
That’s my O-Line :'(
Post by: Heismanberg on March 22, 2020, 10:49:49 AM
That jeri-curl mullet headed freak that runs that site is a hack.
Post by: Jumbo on March 22, 2020, 11:20:18 AM
I've been telling you guys since DAY ONE, that PFF is freaking stupid.
That jeri-curl mullet headed freak that runs that site is a hack.
Their premium data is fine - there's a reason every NFL team pays for it - but the free stuff, podcasts, grades, stuff they pitch to fans is garbage generally
Post by: Pope on March 22, 2020, 11:38:44 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 22, 2020, 11:58:31 AM
Just a few of my favorite PFF Takes these past few years:
Jets should have used Darnold to trade up for Kyler Murray
Daryl Roberts is better than Darius Slay
They didn't even know who Chris Herndon was last offseason
Gregg Williams was a downgrade from Kacy Rodgers
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 22, 2020, 12:39:10 PM
Andrew Thomas is not a good fit in our scheme and would be more of a right tackle (which is a need for us).
But to answer your question, I would take the best available receiver over Andrew Thomas. I would take the other three tackles over any receiver.
It's not that Thomas isn't good. He just isn't a good fit.
I see, thanks.
Sounds like a deep draft for WRs, as much as you want the game breaker I've been wanting that cornerstone LT for so long. I think it's easier to turn a guy into a #1 WR than a premium LT. With Darnold here and in his early years I think it's so important. Another year with a Fitzpatrick or whoever at QB I'd consider it more of a tossup.
Post by: Badger on March 22, 2020, 12:48:46 PM
First post in this thread aged like fine wine.Forgot Clady even existed.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 22, 2020, 02:11:13 PM
I see, thanks.I would take any of the top three tackles over a WR. Thomas is a little bit of a tougher case considering what Douglas has prioritized this offseason.
Sounds like a deep draft for WRs, as much as you want the game breaker I've been wanting that cornerstone LT for so long. I think it's easier to turn a guy into a #1 WR than a premium LT. With Darnold here and in his early years I think it's so important. Another year with a Fitzpatrick or whoever at QB I'd consider it more of a tossup.
The one nice thing about waiting on WR is there are several WR in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that can be really good, and I'm not sure if that's the case at OT. I'd be fine taking Thomas, then double-dipping at WR in the next couple rounds.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 22, 2020, 06:15:40 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 22, 2020, 06:16:58 PM
Williams has starting experience at both tackle and guard. We need to do whatever it takes to ensure we have the best possible starting five out there.
Post by: Johnny English on March 22, 2020, 07:00:39 PM
Is Germain Ifedi an awful player?
Seattle fans seem to think so.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 22, 2020, 07:08:10 PM
Seattle fans seem to think so.
I saw a few Seattle bloggers that were disappointed that Fant left, meaning they were more likely to bring Ifedi back.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 22, 2020, 07:14:58 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 25, 2020, 10:50:06 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2020, 11:53:13 AM
Given the the status of the OL today, how would one rank the tier 2 OL prospects we should keep an eye on in the draft?
Tackles
Josh Jones
Ezra Cleveland
Austin Jackson
Prince Tega Wanogho
Lucas Niang
Interior OL
Cesar Ruiz (I consider him top tier and would be a strong candidate for us in a trade back scenario) (G/C)
Jonah Jackson (G/C)
Lloyd Cushenberry (C)
Matt Hennessy (G/C)
Ben Bredeson (G/T)
I love Netane Muti and he's an absolute animal, but I just hope that Douglas doesn't overvalue a player like him. His injury history is one of the worst I've seen for a linemen entering the NFL. He's a great scheme fit with a nasty mentality, but I worry he won't play very long.
Douglas mentioned position versatility at the NFL Combine. I think he'll be all in on guys like Ruiz, Hennessy, Jackson, and Bredeson (guys that can play all over the line). I don't see Andrew Thomas as the kind of player that can do that. Jedrick Wills and Tristan Wirfs have flexibility. Mekhi Becton would be a monster at guard, but he would be a Day 1 starter at LT. Wills and Wirfs are both RTs.
Post by: Coach K on March 25, 2020, 11:54:35 AM
Id prefer to grab an OT at 11 WR rd 2 and an interior OL with one of our 3rds
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2020, 11:59:50 AM
I still want an OT at 11 but with Robby gone I'm more open to a WR at 11
Id prefer to grab an OT at 11 WR rd 2 and an interior OL with one of our 3rds
Robby was replaced. I know that's a hard pill to swallow, but Perriman is every bit the player that Anderson is. We just have to cross our fingers that he stays healthy.
What concerns me about losing a receiver and adding a new one is the lack of OTAs we're going to have.
Even if Anderson had re-signed, we still needed another outside threat. A true #1 receiver.
Based on the kind of players that Adam Gase and Joe Douglas seem to like, Henry Ruggs III looks like a player they'd target. Also wouldn't be shocked if they loved Denzel Mims and Tee Higgins.
Post by: Johnny English on March 25, 2020, 12:00:04 PM
Tackles
Josh Jones
Ezra Cleveland
Austin Jackson
Prince Tega Wanogho
Lucas Niang
Interior OL
Cesar Ruiz (I consider him top tier and would be a strong candidate for us in a trade back scenario) (G/C)
Jonah Jackson (G/C)
Lloyd Cushenberry (C)
Matt Hennessy (G/C)
Ben Bredeson (G/T)
I love Netane Muti and he's an absolute animal, but I just hope that Douglas doesn't overvalue a player like him. His injury history is one of the worst I've seen for a linemen entering the NFL. He's a great scheme fit with a nasty mentality, but I worry he won't play very long.
Douglas mentioned position versatility at the NFL Combine. I think he'll be all in on guys like Ruiz, Hennessy, Jackson, and Bredeson (guys that can play all over the line). I don't see Andrew Thomas as the kind of player that can do that. Jedrick Wills and Tristan Wirfs have flexibility. Mekhi Becton would be a monster at guard, but he would be a Day 1 starter at LT. Wills and Wirfs are both RTs.
Totally out on Biadasz now?
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2020, 12:00:48 PM
Totally out on Biadasz now?
He's a third tier offensive lineman to me.
He isn't the best fit but I wouldn't be mad if we drafted him in the 4th round or later.
Post by: Miamipuck on March 25, 2020, 12:00:49 PM
I still want an OT at 11 but with Robby gone I'm more open to a WR at 11
Id prefer to grab an OT at 11 WR rd 2 and an interior OL with one of our 3rds
At this point just get 3 or 4 starters at any position. The Jets have a dire need everywhere but ILB and S.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2020, 12:03:30 PM
At this point just get 3 or 4 starters at any position. The Jets have a dire need everywhere but ILB and S.
We have 8 picks. Douglas needs to hit on at least 5 of those picks to get us going.
If he wants to make this roster his sooner than later, he needs to do everything in his power to move back and get double digit draft picks this year.
It's wishful thinking to find 3 to 4 immediate starters. We've gotta get some guys that we can develop into starters for 2021 and 2022. We have worst depth at every position (aside from DL) in the NFL. Bad drafting. Bad roster management.
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 25, 2020, 01:33:22 PM
Douglas mentioned position versatility at the NFL Combine. I think he'll be all in on guys like Ruiz, Hennessy, Jackson, and Bredeson (guys that can play all over the line). I don't see Andrew Thomas as the kind of player that can do that. Jedrick Wills and Tristan Wirfs have flexibility. Mekhi Becton would be a monster at guard, but he would be a Day 1 starter at LT. Wills and Wirfs are both RTs.
You'd mentioned something about how Wills should functionally be able to play LT? He was protecting Tua's blind side as an RT
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2020, 02:26:07 PM
You'd mentioned something about how Wills should functionally be able to play LT? He was protecting Tua's blind side as an RT
Yes and he's athletic enough to make the change but it will be a transition.
He stayed at RT when right hander Mac Jones took over at QB after Tua was hurt.
Wills can play OT and OG.
Post by: Coach K on March 25, 2020, 03:52:23 PM
Robby was replaced. I know that's a hard pill to swallow, but Perriman is every bit the player that Anderson is. We just have to cross our fingers that he stays healthy.
What concerns me about losing a receiver and adding a new one is the lack of OTAs we're going to have.
Even if Anderson had re-signed, we still needed another outside threat. A true #1 receiver.
Based on the kind of players that Adam Gase and Joe Douglas seem to like, Henry Ruggs III looks like a player they'd target. Also wouldn't be shocked if they loved Denzel Mims and Tee Higgins.
Perriman is a 1 yr band aid until he proves hes healthy
But yes regardless we've always needed a true outside WR
I soent most of yesterday talking a couple fellow fans off the ledge in regards to Winston missing Perriman on wide open throws routinely. Throws darnold wouldnt likely miss.
I like perriman as the stopgap.
I just think our OT depth is still questionable at best . Joe has primed himself to either keep some of these guys or have a ton of cap.space in 2021 if he needs to can Gase
Just in case Fant and Edoga aren't worth keeping id feel better addressing OT at 11. The WR depth in this class has me comfortable that a starter can be secured in rd 2
However I do feel Ruggs route running is unddrrated and he's not tiny . So we will see
If Wills or Wirfs is available I do not want a WR .
As far Becton goes , he's not falling . If Thomas falls , he's not an ideal scheme fit , but that might not matter if Gase is gone in 2021
As usual we can talk draft for months and it all goes to excrement when the top 10 picks blow up most consensus boards
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2020, 03:56:31 PM
If he performs at a high level and earns a deal from us, he'll be back. If he flames out, he's gone.
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 25, 2020, 04:04:32 PM
However I do feel Ruggs route running is unddrrated and he's not tiny . So we will see
do you think ruggs' route running is good enough to draft him over jeudy if both were available at 11?
jeudy is one of the best route runners in the country, has more size and has more than enough speed to be a huge problem with his size/height. given the size/speed combo and his route running, i just feel like he is much more of a sure thing to be a true #1 option for a young QB like sam than ruggs is.
ruggs is smaller but definitely the more explosive player
Post by: bojanglesman on March 25, 2020, 04:06:51 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 25, 2020, 04:13:59 PM
do you think ruggs' route running is good enough to draft him over jeudy if both were available at 11?Ruggs is a good enough route runner, and his speed is a game changer.
jeudy is one of the best route runners in the country, has more size and has more than enough speed to be a huge problem with his size/height. given the size/speed combo and his route running, i just feel like he is much more of a sure thing to be a true #1 option for a young QB like sam than ruggs is.
ruggs is smaller but definitely the more explosive player
Jeudy and Lamb are much more of your typical No. 1 receivers. If we need a guy to make a play on 3rd and 5, I trust them a little more than Ruggs. But Ruggs might end up putting more points on the board.
I think Ruggs fits better next to Perriman than he would have with Anderson.
Post by: Johnny English on March 25, 2020, 04:28:18 PM
Doug is quietly lining up to Jets for a lot of comp picks in 2021 with all these 1 year deals.
If these guys all walk next spring we're going to be spending a excrement ton on replacements anyway, so I doubt it. And if we're letting them walk it's because they underperformed, so they won't bring much in the way of comp because their next deals will be crap.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2020, 04:37:24 PM
do you think ruggs' route running is good enough to draft him over jeudy if both were available at 11?
jeudy is one of the best route runners in the country, has more size and has more than enough speed to be a huge problem with his size/height. given the size/speed combo and his route running, i just feel like he is much more of a sure thing to be a true #1 option for a young QB like sam than ruggs is.
ruggs is smaller but definitely the more explosive player
Jerry Jeudy isn't as big as people think. He's only 6'1 193.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 25, 2020, 04:38:35 PM
If these guys all walk next spring we're going to be spending a excrement ton on replacements anyway, so I doubt it. And if we're letting them walk it's because they underperformed, so they won't bring much in the way of comp because their next deals will be crap.
Not if we draft their replacements.
Post by: reuben on March 25, 2020, 05:17:17 PM
Jerry Jeudy isn't as big as people think. He's only 6'1 193.
I wasn't under the impression anyone thought he was particularly big.
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 25, 2020, 05:56:02 PM
ruggs' athleticism/speed/explosiveness certainly intrigues me. im just trying to figure out if the off-the-chart measurables/40 time ruggs put up at the combine is enough to spring him ahead of jeudy who is a couple of inches bigger, heavier, and still ran a very fast 4.45 40, as well as being the better route runner.
i felt like the consensus throughout the year was that while both were very good prospects and were going day 1 (and both possibly 1st round), jeudy was ahead. and then the combine happened. i'd focused a lot on jeudy throughout the season. i still have to watch more of ruggs, and more of lamb on that note
i'll be happy and hoping for the best if we draft either of these guys
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2020, 06:54:25 PM
I wasn't under the impression anyone thought he was particularly big.
Lots of people out there calling him a "generational" talent because they think he's like Julio Jones
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 27, 2020, 08:01:43 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
18m
Brandon Shell’s contract with the Seahawks is two years, $9M, including $5.1M guaranteed at signing. Obviously they see something in him the #Jets didn’t.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 27, 2020, 11:13:32 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 01, 2020, 04:24:29 PM
Post by: Coach K on April 02, 2020, 05:57:02 AM
JD: "Excited about his (George Fant) athleticism. He’s gonna have a great opportunity to come in and compete for a starting spot."
Lol e better for what he's being paid
Post by: dcm1602 on April 02, 2020, 07:06:46 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 02, 2020, 10:22:03 AM
He's not going to have a chance to compete for a starting spot if he doesn't have anyone to compete with
There’s this thing called the draft
Post by: Miamipuck on April 02, 2020, 10:55:36 AM
There’s this thing called the draft
tell me more
Post by: Heismanberg on April 24, 2020, 09:21:01 AM
LG: Alex Lewis
C: Connor McGovern
RG: Greg Van Roten
RT: George Fant
---
Unfinished product, but it's night and day from this season to last.
Post by: Johnny English on April 24, 2020, 09:26:05 AM
LT: Mekhi Becton
LG: Alex Lewis
C: Connor McGovern
RG: Greg Van Roten
RT: George Fant
---
Unfinished product, but it's night and day from this season to last.
I know you will completely disagree with me on this, but I'd switch van Roten to LG where he played for Carolina and start Winters at RG. I guess camp is where that all gets figured out though.
Also, can Fant play right side? I thought he was mostly a left tackle, and given he's only been playing the position for a short while it seems a big ask for him to now start on the right.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 24, 2020, 09:27:27 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 24, 2020, 09:28:10 AM
I know you will completely disagree with me on this, but I'd switch van Roten to LG where he played for Carolina and start Winters at RG. I guess camp is where that all gets figured out though.
Still hoping Brian Winters won't be on this team in the fall.
Quote
Also, can Fant play right side? I thought he was mostly a left tackle, and given he's only been playing the position for a short while it seems a big ask for him to now start on the right.
Cimini said that Fant's played some on the right side. 135 snaps, I believe.
Becton was the 11th overall pick. We aren't going to make a decision on where he plays because of George Fant, who is essentially here for one year. LT is Becton's job for the taking.
Post by: Johnny English on April 24, 2020, 09:44:29 AM
Becton was the 11th overall pick. We aren't going to make a decision on where he plays because of George Fant, who is essentially here for one year. LT is Becton's job for the taking.
Yes, agree with that. My thinking was more whether Edoga is the more likely starter on the right given he has more experience there.
Fant increasingly looks like the fallback option who we signed in case we didn't get a starter in the draft, and who now becomes more of a swing tackle and situational / sub package player.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 24, 2020, 09:52:07 AM
Very happy we don’t have to rely on both of them to pan out
Post by: Italian Seafood on April 24, 2020, 11:35:59 AM
Becton was the 11th overall pick. We aren't going to make a decision on where he plays because of George Fant, who is essentially here for one year. LT is Becton's job for the taking.
All the clips I've seen he's at LT, laying people out. Might as well put him there and see how it goes, if for some reason it's not working move him.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 24, 2020, 11:48:35 AM
All the clips I've seen he's at LT, laying people out. Might as well put him there and see how it goes, if for some reason it's not working move him.
Bobby Petrino runs a ridiculous blocking scheme where he flips his tackle based on the strength of the formation, so for two years, Becton was moving from left to right throughout the course of each game.
When Satterfield came to Louisville from App State, he doesn't do that stupid excrement and left Becton at tackle in a zone read heavy offense. He was the best offensive linemen in the ACC and had a dominant season.
Douglas has talked about his movement, particularly his ability to kick slide in pass pro. He is a great fit in a zone blocking scheme.
Very interesting to hear Mekhi say that Frank Pollack met with him for a long time at the NFL Combine.
Post by: Johnny English on April 24, 2020, 11:54:58 AM
Bobby Petrino runs a ridiculous blocking scheme where he flips his tackle based on the strength of the formation, so for two years, Becton was moving from left to right throughout the course of each game.
When Satterfield came to Louisville from App State, he doesn't do that stupid excrement and left Becton at tackle in a zone read heavy offense. He was the best offensive linemen in the ACC and had a dominant season.
Douglas has talked about his movement, particularly his ability to kick slide in pass pro. He is a great fit in a zone blocking scheme.
Very interesting to hear Mekhi say that Frank Pollack met with him for a long time at the NFL Combine.
The one thing that concerns me slightly from the highlight reels, as it does with any physical freak, is how much he uses his mismatch to win battles. It is awesome to watch him ragdolling 280lb ends but he won't be able to do that anything like as much in the NFL where they're smarter, faster and stronger. I have faith in the scouts and in Douglas's ability to recognise technique and areas to be worked on, but until I see him holding his own in the NFL it will nag at me. We've seen too many physical monsters discover that their skills don't translate at the very highest level for it not to.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 24, 2020, 12:02:05 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 24, 2020, 12:54:50 PM
Quote
Beachum to Becton is going to be such a huge upgrade in the run game, Beachum was decent in pass pro but a huge liability in the run game
Jets ran left end or left tackle 59 times, 2nd-fewest in the league. They averaged 0.21 yards before contact on those runs, worst in the NFL
Nania
Post by: Libero_2 on April 24, 2020, 01:18:01 PM
I know bells not the best use of resources but how the hell is the guy supposed to make anything happen with those type of before contact statistics?
Post by: dcm1602 on April 24, 2020, 03:12:23 PM
0.21 yards before contact? How is that even possible?
I know bells not the best use of resources but how the hell is the guy supposed to make anything happen with those type of before contact statistics?
Well you do realize that Bells running style is part of the problem too. Bell is known for being patient in the backfield, which is a contributing factor to the problem.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 24, 2020, 03:16:32 PM
OG: Lewis/Van Roten/Winters/Andrews
C: McGovern/Harrison
That depth is nice on paper. We still could use one more interior OL to be a future building block, but it's significantly better than last year.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 24, 2020, 03:20:26 PM
OT: Becton/Fant/Edoga/McDermottThe second stringers are equivalent to last year's starters.
OG: Lewis/Van Roten/Winters/Andrews
C: McGovern/Harrison
That depth is nice on paper. We still could use one more interior OL to be a future building block, but it's significantly better than last year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 24, 2020, 03:24:03 PM
The second stringers are equivalent to last year's starters.On paper, picking two of Lewis, Van Roten, Winters and Andrews still gives us two average to below average starters. Or replace Winters with a rookie.
However, if you have those four compete for a job and let the two best men win, you significantly decrease the chances of the position being a disaster, and you increase the chances that we can get average production from the position.
If the Jets OL goes from bottom 2 in the NFL to the 18-23 range, we have a chance to make huge improvements offensively.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 24, 2020, 03:31:46 PM
Well you do realize that Bells running style is part of the problem too. Bell is known for being patient in the backfield, which is a contributing factor to the problem.
Yes but Bell's style isn't drastically different running between the tackles vs. outside of it.
I agree a more 'straight ahead' back probably increases that number. But a historically weak push, is not suddenly turning into an average one with a different back.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 24, 2020, 05:44:56 PM
Yes but Bell's style isn't drastically different running between the tackles vs. outside of it.
I agree a more 'straight ahead' back probably increases that number. But a historically weak push, is not suddenly turning into an average one with a different back.
Bell spends more time behind the line of scrimmage than any back in the NFL according to the available data.
While our OL is unquestionably dogshit, our running play calling is probably terrible, but Bell is a big part of the problem too.
Post by: Badger on April 24, 2020, 06:12:25 PM
LT: Mekhi Becton
LG: Alex Lewis
C: Connor McGovern
RG: Greg Van Roten
RT: George Fant
Oreo OL
Post by: SixFeetDeep on June 30, 2020, 11:52:10 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on June 30, 2020, 11:55:53 AM
https://twitter.com/bigticket73/status/1277959840376242176?s=21
<3 <3 <3
BFFF4L
Post by: bojanglesman on June 30, 2020, 11:56:02 AM
Triple stuft
Oreo OL
Post by: Heismanberg on June 30, 2020, 12:51:49 PM
Becton and Clark showing up to training camp with Sam
Post by: Johnny English on July 06, 2020, 01:21:42 PM
Quote
27. NEW YORK JETS
The Jets have thrown plenty of resources at the offensive line this offseason, but question marks still abound. They finished just 28th in our 2019 rankings, and they will have at least three new starters in 2020.
First-round pick Mekhi Becton, a mauling run blocker who has some work to do in pass protection, is the likely starter at left tackle. Becton’s college film is rare, as the 6-foot-7, 360-pounder tossed college players around like high schoolers, but his mediocre 64.7 pass-blocking grade on true pass sets is a concern.
At right tackle, it’ll be a batter between free agent signing George Fant and second-year player Chuma Edoga. Fant has been a developmental project for the Seahawks, and his best work has come when playing as a sixth offensive lineman at tight end. Fant has an overall grade of just 47.6 when playing tackle, 86th out of 89 qualifiers dating back to 2016, so he remains a project. Edoga, on the other hand, was drafted in the third round back in 2019 and has potential as a pass-blocker after a strong career at USC. However, his first 421 NFL snaps did not go well, evidenced by his 48.9 overall grade and the six penalties called against him.
Both starting guards return in Alex Lewis and Brian Winters, but there’s plenty of competition on the inside — Lewis has yet to grade above 60.2 in three years of significant playing time, while Winters has graded above 70.0 just once in his career (2016).
Greg Van Roten comes in from Carolina, where he had a career year in 2019, finishing with a 65.6 overall grade that finished 24th among guards. Van Roten first entered the league in 2012 and has taken a roundabout path to becoming a starter, but he’s been solid over the last two years.
Center has been a huge problem spot for the team, so the Jets signed another player coming off a career year in Connor McGovern, whose 72.0 overall grade tied for ninth among centers during the 2019 regular season. However, McGovern posted a 48.9 grade in 2017 and a 58.8 mark in 2018, so New York will be hoping they got the 2019 version in free agency.
Post by: Heismanberg on July 06, 2020, 01:39:29 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on July 06, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Quite frankly, unless Becton makes a big impact year 1, the starting OL unit isn't THAT much better on paper.
However, the depth of the unit makes me bullish we could finish 5-10 spots higher. Competition brings the best out of players. If one player is playing poorly, we have other options we can turn to that will likely play better. If we have a weak spot, we can replace that player with someone else who can hopefully provide replacement level value. This OL is a multi-year rebuild, but I like what Joe Douglas has done with the unit in the short term given what he inherited.
Post by: Badger on September 09, 2020, 09:35:07 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 09, 2020, 09:46:01 AM
Quite frankly, unless Becton makes a big impact year 1, the starting OL unit isn't THAT much better on paper.
It's potentially a lot better when it comes to run blocking.
Post by: Libero_2 on September 09, 2020, 10:08:11 AM
It's potentially a lot better when it comes to run blocking.
Le'Veon Bell thanks Joe Douglas for his efforts.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 09, 2020, 10:18:33 AM
Our OL is so much more athletic this year than it has been. I'm expecting more chunk yardage runs this year than last. The zone should be way more effective. If not, we're in deep excrement.
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 09, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
Post by: Johnny English on September 09, 2020, 10:28:41 AM
I think the one player that could really disappoint is Greg Van Roten, but he's a much better scheme fit than Brian Winters.
Our OL is so much more athletic this year than it has been. I'm expecting more chunk yardage runs this year than last. The zone should be way more effective. If not, we're in deep excrement.
The Panthers fan I kind of know thinks that van Roten isn't very good, but I don't know how much I trust his judgement.
I think that all of them have the possibility of being failures. I have the highest hopes for Becton, obviously; I think McGovern is going to be solid, I don't rate Lewis much at all, and Fant feels like a huge gamble.
Post by: mj2sexay on September 09, 2020, 10:33:26 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 09, 2020, 10:34:41 AM
The Panthers fan I kind of know thinks that van Roten isn't very good, but I don't know how much I trust his judgement.
I think that all of them have the possibility of being failures. I have the highest hopes for Becton, obviously; I think McGovern is going to be solid, I don't rate Lewis much at all, and Fant feels like a huge gamble.
Alex Lewis is the kind of guy that every OL needs, but I'm not sure how talented he is. He has a nasty streak and will do whatever it takes to prove it, but he's just not that good.
GVR is a good fit in the zone scheme and he's started a lot of games in that scheme. He doesn't have much upside, but he's more disciplined than Winters and he's a better fit schematically. I think that'll be more of a wash than we hoped, but I'm obviously glad to see Winters gone.
Cameron Clark will hopefully develop into a longterm starter at one of the guard spots.
Fant has lots of upside and he's an upper echelon athlete for a tackle, but that could be a huge whiff. The get out of jail free card built into his contract is solid business though.
Post by: Badger on September 09, 2020, 10:36:28 AM
I can't stress enough on how mere mediocrity is a gigantic upgrade from last years performance.
There were some recent years where I thought they were at least mediocre on paper but still turned out to be disasters.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 09, 2020, 10:37:53 AM
I can't stress enough on how mere mediocrity is a gigantic upgrade from last years performance.
Even if Becton struggles as a pass protector early, he is should be an elite people mover right away. The left side of our offensive line is going to be a tough matchup for a lot of fronts when it comes to stopping the run.
With Fant, I'm expecting him to get a lot of help from Herndon/Griffin/Wesco. We'll also be better equipped to roll the pocket more to right because Fant can really move and Becton is big enough to seal the backside.
Post by: Johnny English on September 09, 2020, 10:38:37 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 09, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
The true test of our OL finally reaching an acceptable level will be when I go to get dressed on a game day and don't find myself gazing wistfully at my #74 jersey.
It's hard to replace a Hall of Famer. McGovern is definitely the best we've had since Mangold.
Going from Mawae to Mangold had us spoiled.
Post by: Johnny English on September 09, 2020, 10:41:20 AM
Even if Becton struggles as a pass protector early, he is should be an elite people mover right away. The left side of our offensive line is going to be a tough matchup for a lot of fronts when it comes to stopping the run.
I suspect that early on we're going to see defenses throw a lot of different looks at that side, especially with speed rushers, and we're going to learn whether his footwork is as good as has been claimed. It's definitely one of the things I'm most interested to watch this season.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 09, 2020, 10:41:38 AM
Becton/Lewis + Wesco as a lead blocker in front of Bell could be fun.
Post by: Johnny English on September 09, 2020, 10:42:07 AM
It's hard to replace a Hall of Famer. McGovern is definitely the best we've had since Mangold.
Going from Mawae to Mangold had us spoiled.
Yes agreed on all that. I don't expect the 08-10 standard any time soon. I'll settle for competent.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 09, 2020, 10:43:29 AM
I suspect that early on we're going to see defenses throw a lot of different looks at that side, especially with speed rushers, and we're going to learn whether his footwork is as good as has been claimed. It's definitely one of the things I'm most interested to watch this season.
Becton improving his ability to recover against speed is key. His arms are long enough and he's wide enough to get beat and still recover. What he did to Julian Okwara was amazing.
Okwara got him once all game, and it only led to a QB hurry. Becton manhandled Notre Dame's EDGE players.
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 09, 2020, 10:53:17 AM
It's hard to replace a Hall of Famer. McGovern is definitely the best we've had since Mangold.
Going from Mawae to Mangold had us spoiled.
Likewise with Becton, I don't expect him to be Powell or Brick out of the gate, but it will be fun to have him there.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 09, 2020, 11:04:29 AM
It will be a trial by fire, but he has the physical traits and size to be a dominant force in the league.
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 09, 2020, 11:11:30 AM
Ferguson struggled early and NYJ fans were really sour about that pick because we passed on Matt Leinart (lmao).
It will be a trial by fire, but he has the physical traits and size to be a dominant force in the league.
The value of LT is most teams put their best rusher to that side, so I'd be surprised it he doesn't get beat a few times. Darnold is used to running for his life so it's not like he'll be blindsided, hopefully.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 14, 2020, 02:41:49 PM
PFF lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 14, 2020, 03:21:01 PM
https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1305575928903458817?s=21I never trust their individual player grades, but the offensive line was better yesterday than it was most of last season. Darnold was seeing ghosts.
PFF lol
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2020, 03:32:31 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on September 14, 2020, 03:44:31 PM
Buffalo has a really good DL that moves around a lot. I thought our new group held together pretty well.
I've seen way worse, like us the last couple of years.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 14, 2020, 04:10:01 PM
I never trust their individual player grades, but the offensive line was better yesterday than it was most of last season. Darnold was seeing ghosts.
Better than last year where it was worst in the league. Still below average to bad.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
Still below average to bad.
Our offensive line was not below average yesterday. Do you actually think this?
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 14, 2020, 04:36:28 PM
Last year, I didn't think we could do anything because of the OL play. This year, I thought we could, but Darnold sucked, and the playcalling wasn't much better.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 14, 2020, 08:39:34 PM
Quote
The top 8 offenses in pressure rate allowed in Week 1 all lost (combined 0-8 record):
Jets - 44.7%
Cowboys - 40.5%
Eagles - 34.0%
Bengals - 33.3%
Vikings - 33.3%
Dolphins - 32.3%
Falcons - 32.1%
Buccaneers - 29.7%
https://twitter.com/nextgenstats/status/1305604135689936896?s=21
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 14, 2020, 08:41:49 PM
https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1305575928903458817?s=21
PFF lol
Quote
Ok, I figured out Lewis. He had a 44.9 pass block grade, and a 92.2 run block grade. Only thing is, he had 41 pass block snaps, and only 15 runs block snaps. Hence the problem with PFF grades. They don’t tell even half the story.
Post by: insanity on September 15, 2020, 06:24:36 AM
https://twitter.com/nextgenstats/status/1305604135689936896?s=21So our o line is the problem again?
I know our o line wasn't good on Sunday but it didn't seem this bad.
Post by: Libero_2 on September 15, 2020, 06:45:55 AM
So our o line is the problem again?
I know our o line wasn't good on Sunday but it didn't seem this bad.
I wonder if PFF just charts it as "Sam moved in/out of the pocket" so that counts as a pressure.
Because it certainly wasn't that bad, or if it was our line was historically bad in ways we didn't realize last year.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 15, 2020, 09:42:40 AM
https://twitter.com/nextgenstats/status/1305604135689936896?s=21
I wonder if PFF just charts it as "Sam moved in/out of the pocket" so that counts as a pressure.
Because it certainly wasn't that bad, or if it was our line was historically bad in ways we didn't realize last year.
This is from NFL not PFF.
But much like the way our country is going, in before someone claims nextgen stats is garbage and the data isn't true.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 15, 2020, 09:46:59 AM
Becton looked like the real deal.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 15, 2020, 09:12:59 PM
Our interior group was pretty rough, but I thought the tackles played well in pass protection.
Becton looked like the real deal.
Yep. And in typical Jets fashion, be prepared to see him in a different jersey in 3 years
Post by: mj2sexay on September 15, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Yep. And in typical Jets fashion, be prepared to see him in a different jersey in 3 years
I know that D'Brick and Mangold spent their entire career here but it doesn't stop the crippling depression that comes with seeing the litany of stars that have left this team and been the real deal.
One of those guys will be broadcasting the game this Sunday so thats nice.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 17, 2020, 11:56:10 AM
I know that D'Brick and Mangold spent their entire career here but it doesn't stop the crippling depression that comes with seeing the litany of stars that have left this team and been the real deal.
One of those guys will be broadcasting the game this Sunday so thats nice.
Totally agree
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 22, 2020, 08:10:36 PM
Quote
#Jets OL analytics thru 2 games:
Pass-block win rate
LT Becton 92.1%
LG Lewis 85%
C McGovern 77.1%
RG GVR 87.5%
RT Fant 77.5%
Run-block win rate
Becton 65.9%
Lewis 68.3%
McGovern 75%
GVR 63.4%
Fant 58.5%
Becton doe
Post by: Libero_2 on September 22, 2020, 10:09:25 PM
I’d be curious to see how a top OL grades out in these categories.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 22, 2020, 10:27:57 PM
That’s interesting that McGovern is the weakest pass blocker. It’s also surprising how low (in comparison) the run block win rate is in comparison to the pass block win rates.
I’d be curious to see how a top OL grades out in these categories.
Our run game design sucks. It felt like every run was right up the gut.
That being said, it was pretty effective Sunday despite scheme and personnel. It would have been nice if Gase showed some creativity on the 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 sequence though.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on September 23, 2020, 10:19:08 AM
Our run game design sucks. It felt like every run was right up the gut.
That being said, it was pretty effective Sunday despite scheme and personnel. It would have been nice if Gase showed some creativity on the 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 sequence though.
Why not just stop there?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 30, 2020, 09:58:50 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 30, 2020, 10:47:17 AM
https://sny.tv/articles/stats-show-jets-o-line-revamp-isn-t-going-according-to-plan-so-far-this-season
I might have been generous when I called the interior Oline serviceable.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 30, 2020, 11:47:03 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 30, 2020, 02:42:31 PM
Becton was/is the only long-term member acquired in the offseason
I still maintain it was a mistake to dump J Harrison
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 30, 2020, 03:27:15 PM
https://sny.tv/articles/stats-show-jets-o-line-revamp-isn-t-going-according-to-plan-so-far-this-season
Is it time to change this thread title to LOLffensive Line?
Post by: Johnny English on September 30, 2020, 07:08:28 PM
We all knew it was a matter of some guys performing at their best to be an average line is what I remember from the offseason
Becton was/is the only long-term member acquired in the offseason
I still maintain it was a mistake to dump J Harrison
Meanwhile, Brian Winters is looking pretty serviceable starting for a 3-0 team who are currently favourites to win the division.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 30, 2020, 08:52:08 PM
Meanwhile, Brian Winters is looking pretty serviceable starting for a 3-0 team who are currently favourites to win the division.
This is false.
Post by: delavan on October 01, 2020, 01:46:29 AM
Meanwhile, Brian Winters is looking pretty serviceable starting for a 3-0 team who are currently favourites to win the division.
JE, Bills would've declined a facemark penalty on an Allen-to-Diggs TD pass except Brian Winters was flagged for holding.
On another play (granted it was Aaron Donald) Donald absolutely rag-dolled Winters so bad it was actually funny to watch.
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2020, 12:30:04 PM
JE, Bills would've declined a facemark penalty on an Allen-to-Diggs TD pass except Brian Winters was flagged for holding.
On another play (granted it was Aaron Donald) Donald absolutely rag-dolled Winters so bad it was actually funny to watch.
If giving up some penalties and getting destroyed by Aaron Donald made you a bad player, there would maybe be half a dozen good linemen in the NFL.
I'm not pining for Winters, I'm making the point that it's a mistake to judge the quality of players on teams that are as badly coached as the Jets have been for a long time.
Post by: reuben on October 01, 2020, 01:10:04 PM
I still maintain it was a mistake to dump J Harrison
Yeah it was, I don't know what they were thinking. I suspected it might be a Cotchery situation where he asked for his release after it was clear he wouldn't be starting, but now he's just chillin on the Bills practice squad. We could have him back if we wanted.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 01, 2020, 01:11:28 PM
JE, Bills would've declined a facemark penalty on an Allen-to-Diggs TD pass except Brian Winters was flagged for holding.
On another play (granted it was Aaron Donald) Donald absolutely rag-dolled Winters so bad it was actually funny to watch.
I watched a lot of the game, Winters was struggling. Lucky for them Allen can run.
Post by: Johnny English on October 01, 2020, 01:18:16 PM
I watched a lot of the game, Winters was struggling. Lucky for them Allen can run.
Again, not many linemen are going to not struggle when they're trying to deal with Aaron Donald and Michael Brockers. The fact is that Winters was scapegoated as being a big part of our problems last season, so we got rid of him and upgraded and lo and behold, we're once again struggling with the interior line.
I believe that we have at least as much of a coaching problem as we do a talent problem.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 01, 2020, 01:48:37 PM
Again, not many linemen are going to not struggle when they're trying to deal with Aaron Donald and Michael Brockers. The fact is that Winters was scapegoated as being a big part of our problems last season, so we got rid of him and upgraded and lo and behold, we're once again struggling with the interior line.
I believe that we have at least as much of a coaching problem as we do a talent problem.
We have both. One problem is we get one good player per year in the draft and sometimes another one in free agency. On a 53 man team, that's not going to get it done.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 01, 2020, 02:28:18 PM
Again, not many linemen are going to not struggle when they're trying to deal with Aaron Donald and Michael Brockers. The fact is that Winters was scapegoated as being a big part of our problems last season, so we got rid of him and upgraded and lo and behold, we're once again struggling with the interior line.
I believe that we have at least as much of a coaching problem as we do a talent problem.
The argument as I understood it with Winters, is his health. When healthy he was a solid to above average guy for us. It he hasn’t been healthy in 2+ years for more than 2 weeks. And while he is a tough SOB for hitting through some nasty muscle tears to play on the Oline, the reality is he wasn’t effective in doing so.
Post by: reuben on October 01, 2020, 03:41:01 PM
SBTGVR
Post by: ons on October 02, 2020, 09:18:50 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2020, 09:27:35 AM
https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1312002945496559622
This is why Darnold doesn’t go through his reads half the time. He has zero confidence in his protection, and in year 3 it’s become a part of his subconscious decision making.
We can post the clip of the RB whiffing on his man in here too
Post by: bojanglesman on October 02, 2020, 09:28:30 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2020, 09:38:38 AM
This is why Darnold doesn’t go through his reads half the time. He has zero confidence in his protection, and in year 3 it’s become a part of his subconscious decision making.I don't disagree, but is he salvageable?
We can post the clip of the RB whiffing on his man in here too
He might have bad habits, but are these bad habits going to change with better OL? Or is he ruined? And if we get a top pick, do we want to gamble that a new coach can fix these issues? These are the questions Darnold will have to answer in the final 12 games.
Post by: Johnny English on October 02, 2020, 09:45:53 AM
I don't disagree, but is he salvageable?
He might have bad habits, but are these bad habits going to change with better OL? Or is he ruined? And if we get a top pick, do we want to gamble that a new coach can fix these issues? These are the questions Darnold will have to answer in the final 12 games.
Is there more chance of a new coach and fresh approach being successful, or of the current one turning things around? That seems like a pretty straightforward decision, for me.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2020, 09:48:40 AM
Is there more chance of a new coach and fresh approach being successful, or of the current one turning things around? That seems like a pretty straightforward decision, for me.Are you talking midseason? Both options are bad.
Post by: Johnny English on October 02, 2020, 09:58:05 AM
Are you talking midseason? Both options are bad.
I agree, but one has a slightly higher chance of success than the other.
I realise I'm sounding like a stuck record, but Cooter was Stafford's QB coach and then his OC. I don't think that a smarter version of Stafford is an unreasonable goal for Sam to aim at. Replacing Gase and Loggains with Cooter would bring a fresh approach while retaining continuity in the playbook.
Post by: MBGreen on October 02, 2020, 09:59:45 AM
I agree, but one has a slightly higher chance of success than the other.
I realise I'm sounding like a stuck record, but Cooter was Stafford's QB coach and then his OC. I don't think that a smarter version of Stafford is an unreasonable goal for Sam to aim at. Replacing Gase and Loggains with Cooter would bring a fresh approach while retaining continuity in the playbook.
It appears the Johnsons won't fire a HC midseason...so this is a moot point.
Post by: Laxin on October 02, 2020, 10:00:10 AM
Side note, Becton is such a stud. Locked up Chubb when he was on the field. Did the same for Bosa week 2, and Jerry Hughes week 1 aside from one play. Just let him get healthy.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2020, 10:02:16 AM
Why not put in Cam Clark?
He's on IR
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2020, 10:04:49 AM
I agree, but one has a slightly higher chance of success than the other.Is Cooter head coach? Or is he leading the QB, the offense and the entire team after being the RB coach? Does that help Darnold? I don't know.
I realise I'm sounding like a stuck record, but Cooter was Stafford's QB coach and then his OC. I don't think that a smarter version of Stafford is an unreasonable goal for Sam to aim at. Replacing Gase and Loggains with Cooter would bring a fresh approach while retaining continuity in the playbook.
If they want to fire Gase right now, I would celebrate because it means he's gone next season, which is all I care about now. But while I understand the notion that "It can't possibly get any worse," I'm not sure if that's true.
Post by: Laxin on October 02, 2020, 10:11:32 AM
He's on IR
Ah, I must've missed that one
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2020, 10:14:17 AM
Ah, I must've missed that one
He should be eligible to come back this week. Hopefully he's starting by the end of the year.
Lamar Jackson, Javelin Guidry, and Bryce Huff were all getting playing time on defense last night. Good to see rookies and UDFAs getting reps over the washed up turds we have on the roster.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 02, 2020, 10:15:04 AM
I don't disagree, but is he salvageable?We should go ahead and put him down. He had a good life.
He might have bad habits, but are these bad habits going to change with better OL? Or is he ruined? And if we get a top pick, do we want to gamble that a new coach can fix these issues? These are the questions Darnold will have to answer in the final 12 games.
Post by: Johnny English on October 02, 2020, 10:16:33 AM
He should be eligible to come back this week. Hopefully he's starting by the end of the year.
Lamar Jackson, Javelin Guidry, and Bryce Huff were all getting playing time on defense last night. Good to see rookies and UDFAs getting reps over the washed up turds we have on the roster.
Jackson and Huff both did noticeable things last night, Huff in good ways and Jackson in not so good ways.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 02, 2020, 10:18:29 AM
He should be eligible to come back this week. Hopefully he's starting by the end of the year.Now if we can just get Alec Ogletree off the team, we'll be cooking.
Lamar Jackson, Javelin Guidry, and Bryce Huff were all getting playing time on defense last night. Good to see rookies and UDFAs getting reps over the washed up turds we have on the roster.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2020, 10:26:56 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2020, 10:30:13 AM
Is Cooter head coach? Or is he leading the QB, the offense and the entire team after being the RB coach? Does that help Darnold? I don't know.
If they want to fire Gase right now, I would celebrate because it means he's gone next season, which is all I care about now. But while I understand the notion that "It can't possibly get any worse," I'm not sure if that's true.
Im gonna need someone to define worse than the current situation we are in
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 02, 2020, 12:19:07 PM
Quote
George Fant was credited with 0 pressures allowed over 54 protection snaps last night. So far he has given up 5 over 125 snaps, a 4.0% rate, 20th-best out of 58 qualified OTs.
Solid start for the Douglas pickup. Starting OT duo has been good. Interior + depth has been the issue
CMG is off to a cold start with 13 pressures/151 snaps (8.6%, 2nd-worst among C ahead of only Broncos rookie Cushenberry)
GVR & Lewis are #1 and #2 in most pressures allowed among guards (15 and 13). In terms of %, Lewis ranks 51st (8.0%) and GVR 54th (9.3%) out of 56 qualifiers
A lot of stuff happening here
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2020, 12:23:59 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 02, 2020, 12:24:51 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2020, 12:28:19 PM
how much money did we give lewis last year
3 years, $18.6 million contract with $6M guaranteed
He can be released after this season
Post by: Libero_2 on October 02, 2020, 01:15:00 PM
3 years, $18.6 million contract with $6M guaranteed
He can be released after this season
The only one of the four OL that we signed that will definitely be here next year is McGovern. Good news about his terrible play is that he could be moved to OG if we can either sign or draft a new C
At this point I feel like the outline for the OL in 2021 looks as follows
Cut Lewis
Relegate GVR to depth given his cheap deal makes him financially capable depth (assuming his play improves at all, otherwise cut him)
Clark steps into a starting role
Sign Joe Thuney
Fant restructures his deal to stay at around $8million per
Draft a C in the mid rounds to replace McGovern in 2022
Post by: Heismanberg on October 02, 2020, 02:37:50 PM
We need upgrades at both guard spots.
Post by: Johnny English on October 02, 2020, 02:46:02 PM
Fant doesn't need to restructure his deal if he continues to play at this level. He's been solid for us.
We need upgrades at both guard spots.
Yes agreed, if he plays like he has so far then $10M a year is a very fair deal. He's looked good, and so far I'm very happy to eat my words of concern about him.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 10, 2020, 09:30:46 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2020, 09:48:35 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 10, 2020, 11:57:34 AM
Post by: Johnny English on October 10, 2020, 02:00:17 PM
Brian Winters is a better player than either of our current guards.
The people who were defending bringing back Lewis in the offseason are curiously quiet. He was garbage last year as well.
Brian Winters is a better player than either of our current guards.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 10, 2020, 02:24:20 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 10, 2020, 05:33:45 PM
Brian Winters is a better player than either of our current guards.
No, he's not.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 28, 2020, 02:34:22 PM
32) Giants - 43.4%
31) Cowboys - 35.0%
30) Vikings - 33.9%
29) Jets - 33.3%
28) Eagles - 31.9%
-ESPN Next Gen Stats
Positives: We would be flipped with the Giants if they took Becton and we ended up with Andrew Thomas
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 28, 2020, 02:35:33 PM
Brian Winters is a better player than either of our current guards.
Every time I watch Buffalo I see him getting beat and/or penalized.
Post by: Johnny English on October 28, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
Every time I watch Buffalo I see him getting beat and/or penalized.
Your statement and mine are not exclusive.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 28, 2020, 02:40:18 PM
Highest Team Pressure Rate Allowed (this season)
32) Giants - 43.4%
31) Cowboys - 35.0%
30) Vikings - 33.9%
29) Jets - 33.3%
28) Eagles - 31.9%
-ESPN Next Gen Stats
Positives: We would be flipped with the Giants if they took Becton and we ended up with Andrew Thomas
Quote
Here's the full list of the bottom five teams in pressure rate allowed by average quarterback time to throw this season:
Giants - 2.88 seconds
Cowboys - 2.73 seconds*
Vikings - 2.97 seconds
Jets - 2.85 seconds
Eagles - 2.89 seconds
*Faster than the NFL average (2.75 seconds)
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 28, 2020, 03:35:54 PM
Your statement and mine are not exclusive.
So they can see other people?
Post by: Libero_2 on October 28, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Are you suggesting that there might in fact be a correlation here?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 28, 2020, 06:59:55 PM
Can't be true. Joe D did an amazing job with the OL
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 28, 2020, 10:15:32 PM
Are you suggesting that there might in fact be a correlation here?
I’m saying compared to the other bottom OLs QBs - Wentz, Jones, and Cousins - Darnold was getting the ball out quicker.
I’m not saying it indicates anything. Maybe Darnold throws more shitty passes sooner once he senses pressure. Maybe he’s more aware of pressure and does better to get rid of the ball before he gets sacked.
Only thing it really confirms is that he’s not hanging onto the ball an obscene amount of time and his OL is giving him a BOTTOM 5 IN THE LEAGUE chance to succeed despite Joe Douglas fixing the OL or whatever.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 28, 2020, 10:30:09 PM
With the exception of throwing big money at players who demonstratively didn't want to come here (Conklin, Glasnow) what would you have done?
Thuney and Scherff getting franchised (which we saw coming with at least one of them) killed the big ticket interior market.
Fant's actually worked out. The gords haven't. Considering said franchised players haven't reached new deals with their teams and aren't likely to get franchised again, this doesn't seem like the unsolvable mess of last year.
It would've helped if Edoga could actually play, but that'd require Mac actually hitting on a mid round pick.
Post by: Johnny English on October 28, 2020, 11:01:45 PM
Question for the Joe D haters re: the o-line.I wouldn't call myself a hater, but I have my issues with him and the jury is very firmly out currently. OL is not something I'd especially criticise him for though so far, Kalil was his worst freak up there and I don't blame him for taking that swing. He didn't have a lot of other options.
With the exception of throwing big money at players who demonstratively didn't want to come here (Conklin, Glasnow) what would you have done?
Thuney and Scherff getting franchised (which we saw coming with at least one of them) killed the big ticket interior market.
Fant's actually worked out. The gords haven't. Considering said franchised players haven't reached new deals with their teams and aren't likely to get franchised again, this doesn't seem like the unsolvable mess of last year.
It would've helped if Edoga could actually play, but that'd require Mac actually hitting on a mid round pick.
Post by: IATA on October 28, 2020, 11:15:45 PM
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: mj2sexay on October 28, 2020, 11:26:15 PM
I wouldn't call myself a hater, but I have my issues with him and the jury is very firmly out currently. OL is not something I'd especially criticise him for though so far, Kalil was his worst freak up there and I don't blame him for taking that swing. He didn't have a lot of other options.
Agreed with all of it.
Post by: Jumbo on October 28, 2020, 11:30:47 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 28, 2020, 11:34:00 PM
If Clark looks good, assuming he gets the start sooner than later, that probably bodes well for Douglas' ability to add to the OL regardless of any FA whiffs.
The only way to explain our collective OL grade is that both of our OGs are bottom tier of the league.
If Clark can come in and be competent, that would be a huge upgrade. Josh Andrews is not an acceptable player to put out on the field.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 29, 2020, 01:50:07 AM
Josh Andrews is not an acceptable player to put out on the field.
He's Wayne Hunter bad but for whatever reason doesn't make me Wayne Hunter angry.
I guess there is an upside to no expectations.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 29, 2020, 07:35:28 AM
I wouldn't call myself a hater, but I have my issues with him and the jury is very firmly out currently. OL is not something I'd especially criticise him for though so far, Kalil was his worst freak up there and I don't blame him for taking that swing. He didn't have a lot of other options.
I'm not a hater either. My big issue is that Douglas wasted any resources on defense. We had Adams and Maye--two early-round safeties, and he spent a pick on Davis. It doesn't matter how it eventually worked out. It was a pick that could've brought in another OL or WR.
After decades of loading up on defenders just to watch this team get outscored with regularity, any move that doesn't improve the offense--especially when there is a franchise QB in-house--is going to bother me.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 29, 2020, 10:31:47 AM
I'm not a hater either. My big issue is that Douglas wasted any resources on defense. We had Adams and Maye--two early-round safeties, and he spent a pick on Davis. It doesn't matter how it eventually worked out. It was a pick that could've brought in another OL or WR.
After decades of loading up on defenders just to watch this team get outscored with regularity, any move that doesn't improve the offense--especially when there is a franchise QB in-house--is going to bother me.
Davis was a classic Ravens pick. We planned to pay Adams and let Maye walk, his replacement has a year to learn on the job. We couldn’t pay both guys so Adams was the plan and Maye was the guy to walk and hopefully net is a complete pick. It’s how a competent organization is run. Add in the value of Davis still being around so late and that made tons of sense to me.
Now that Adams ran himself out of town and that initial plan didn’t quite come to pass.
I won’t fault JD for that value move. But the next 3? Zuniga, Perine and Morgan? Those were guys I all thought could have been swapped for a WR.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 29, 2020, 10:35:18 AM
Question for the Joe D haters re: the o-line.
With the exception of throwing big money at players who demonstratively didn't want to come here (Conklin, Glasnow) what would you have done?
Thuney and Scherff getting franchised (which we saw coming with at least one of them) killed the big ticket interior market.
Fant's actually worked out. The gords haven't. Considering said franchised players haven't reached new deals with their teams and aren't likely to get franchised again, this doesn't seem like the unsolvable mess of last year.
It would've helped if Edoga could actually play, but that'd require Mac actually hitting on a mid round pick.
I don't hate Joe D. But if his main goal was to fix the OL, and it's currently ranked 4th worse in the league, one can't objectively say he did a good job. This coupled with the huge miss on Robby Anderson, just casts some doubt for me.
I get he needs some more time, but I'm not overly optimistic thus far.
Oh, and the Morgan pick was flat out stupid
Post by: bojanglesman on October 29, 2020, 10:37:28 AM
I don't hate Joe D. But if his main goal was to fix the OL, and it's currently ranked 4th worse in the league, one can't objectively say he did a good job.
Depends if you consider it was the worst in the league last year or 78 miles beyond the worst in the league. Then, getting out of the cellar to just "bad" is a Herculean accomplishment.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 29, 2020, 12:14:41 PM
Quote
In addition to constantly being defeated one-on-one, Andrews had zero chemistry with the rest of the line. He failed to pick up stunts and blitzes, struggled with passing off and exchanging rushers, and poorly executed combo blocks in the run game.
-Nania
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 29, 2020, 12:18:58 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2020, 01:04:23 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 29, 2020, 01:06:34 PM
Quote
Most pass-blocking snaps without allowing a sack by Ts:
1. Laremy Tunsil - 288
2. Kelvin Beachum - 284
3. Andrew Whitworth - 239
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 29, 2020, 01:16:30 PM
Josh Andrews was tagged with allowing nine pressures over the team’s 35 protection snaps, a whopping 25.7%! That’s the worst rate allowed in a game this season by a starting offensive lineman at any position.
-Nania
Add it the list of FA whiffs by Joe D
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2020, 01:18:32 PM
Add it the list of FA whiffs by Joe D
Ah yes, lets hold this third string guard against him
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 29, 2020, 01:24:52 PM
Ah yes, lets hold this third string guard against him
He's got a golden sombrero for free agency...maybe two of them.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 29, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
Ah yes, lets hold this third string guard against himOnce we are down 30, he'll get in there.
Post by: Badger on October 29, 2020, 03:08:44 PM
This would hurt more if T was a weakness for us but I never understood the rush to get rid of Beachum.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 29, 2020, 06:17:14 PM
Quote
For the analytics crowd: Pass-block win rate thru 7 games (and position rank) @NextGenStats #Jets
OT: Becton (39) 87.3%
OT: Fant (55) 82.1%
G: Van Roten (30) 91.6%
G: Lewis (49) 88.4%
C: McGovern (32) 87.7%
So the OL is, in fact, #bad
Post by: Libero_2 on October 29, 2020, 06:40:00 PM
So the OL is, in fact, #bad
For giggles I’d love to see a breakdown of the top 3-5 OLs on these stats
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 29, 2020, 09:05:27 PM
For giggles I’d love to see a breakdown of the top 3-5 OLs on these stats
(https://a3.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2020%2F1027%2Fr766798_1280x720_16%2D9.jpg&w=1140&cquality=40&format=jpg)
(https://a3.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2020%2F1027%2Fr766801_1280x720_16%2D9.jpg&w=1140&cquality=40&format=jpg)
Waiting for the "these players are washed up" comments...
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 29, 2020, 09:06:48 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2020, 09:10:17 PM
So the OL is, in fact, #bad
The protections being called the quarterback are worse.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2020, 09:13:23 PM
Like PFF, you can't grade offensive linemen without knowing the calls. Nick Mangold basically said this last weekend.
Sam Darnold is making the calls out there and getting killed. I don't think our offensive line is anything special, especially at guard but the QB has to put his OL and his blocking skill guys in a better spot.
Post by: Badger on October 29, 2020, 09:58:08 PM
Brandon Shell.BRANDON SHELL.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 29, 2020, 10:09:18 PM
Like PFF, you can't grade offensive linemen without knowing the calls. Nick Mangold basically said this last weekend.
You talking about the Twitter thing? I saw that, was pretty informative.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 29, 2020, 10:28:48 PM
The protections being called the quarterback are worse.
Not sure how that applies here. Block your man.
It’s not like this is the gray area where we’re not sure if a pressure is the OL or the QB’s fault.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 29, 2020, 10:30:22 PM
I can understand using pass block win rate for tackles, but not guards or centers. It's a pretty stupid statistic, in my opinion.
Like PFF, you can't grade offensive linemen without knowing the calls. Nick Mangold basically said this last weekend.
Sam Darnold is making the calls out there and getting killed. I don't think our offensive line is anything special, especially at guard but the QB has to put his OL and his blocking skill guys in a better spot.
Was the OL any better with Joe Flacco calling protections?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 29, 2020, 10:33:04 PM
I can understand using pass block win rate for tackles, but not guards or centers. It's a pretty stupid statistic, in my opinion.
Like PFF, you can't grade offensive linemen without knowing the calls. Nick Mangold basically said this last weekend.
Sam Darnold is making the calls out there and getting killed. I don't think our offensive line is anything special, especially at guard but the QB has to put his OL and his blocking skill guys in a better spot.
A stat that happens to happens to give top grades to OG’s Zach Martin, Joel Bitonio, Quenton Nelson- widely regarded as the best guards in the league, is a stupid stat? Do tell
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2020, 10:42:15 PM
Not sure how that applies here. Block your man.
That's the thing with blocking. They aren't just blocking the guy across from them or nearest to them. They are picking up stunts or walked up linebackers or defensive backs.
It's way more complex than just a one versus one pushing contest. That's why I think the statistic is pointless, especially for interior players that often pass off defenders.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
Was the OL any better with Joe Flacco calling protections?
Becton missed all of the games Flacco started, so no, it wasn't.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 29, 2020, 10:46:15 PM
A stat that happens to happens to give top grades to OG’s Zach Martin, Joel Bitonio, Quenton Nelson- widely regarded as the best guards in the league, is a stupid stat? Do tell
Zack Martin is part of an atrocious offensive line. He's not getting beat because everyone else is.
Billy Turner, Justin Pugh, and Brandon Shell are also part of this list. They are terrible football players.
Post by: insanity on October 30, 2020, 06:39:07 AM
A stat that happens to happens to give top grades to OG’s Zach Martin, Joel Bitonio, Quenton Nelson- widely regarded as the best guards in the league, is a stupid stat? Do tellConfirmation bias much?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2020, 08:05:14 AM
Becton missed all of the games Flacco started, so no, it wasn't.
I mean, no one is arguing that Becton has been bad. I wouldn’t put as much stock into his numbers since he missed time and has been playing hurt.
We know the interior OL has been terrible.
The only surprise here should be Fant. He’s struggled the path few games, perhaps moreso than some of us thought.
This also doesn’t include the 1 game of Josh Andrews, the worst single game out of any olineman in the NFL.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2020, 08:11:46 AM
Zack Martin is part of an atrocious offensive line. He's not getting beat because everyone else is.
Billy Turner, Justin Pugh, and Brandon Shell are also part of this list. They are terrible football players.
Maybe Brandon Shell is playing better? PFF has him rated as a top 10 pass blocking OT too.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2020, 08:17:18 AM
Confirmation bias much?
I would love to hear your method of determination on how OL is good or bad. Make sure to include how you watch every single snap of every single game
Post by: Miamipuck on October 30, 2020, 09:20:52 AM
Maybe Brandon Shell is playing better? PFF has him rated as a top 10 pass blocking OT too.
nah
Post by: insanity on October 30, 2020, 11:13:24 AM
I would love to hear your method of determination on how OL is good or bad. Make sure to include how you watch every single snap of every single gameNever said I have a method. Just saying that saying data is right because it lines up with what you believe is a terrible thing to do. Case in point Justin Poo
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2020, 12:40:05 PM
Never said I have a method. Just saying that saying data is right because it lines up with what you believe is a terrible thing to do. Case in point Justin Poo
How much Justin Pugh have you watched this year? You really feel confident in saying you know how well he’s playing?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 30, 2020, 01:11:40 PM
Maybe Brandon Shell is playing better? PFF has him rated as a top 10 pass blocking OT too.
Bullshit, he sucks. ESPN, PFF, and all other metrics developed by media outlets are all wrong
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2020, 04:19:23 PM
Brian Winters is a starter.
Dakota Dozier is a starter.
Kelechi Osemele was a starter.
Brandon Shell is a starter.
Oday Aboushi was a starter.
I'm hoping that with Becton and hopefully one more impact lineman going forward that some of these guys look better than they really are.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2020, 04:27:27 PM
I feel we have a ton of mediocre linemen that end up doing okay on other rosters.
Brian Winters is a starter.
Dakota Dozier is a starter.
Kelechi Osemele was a starter.
Brandon Shell is a starter.
Oday Aboushi was a starter.
I'm hoping that with Becton and hopefully one more impact lineman going forward that some of these guys look better than they really are.
It's almost like.... nah.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2020, 05:02:12 PM
Brian Winters is a starter.
Dakota Dozier is a starter.
Kelechi Osemele was a starter.
Brandon Shell is a starter.
Oday Aboushi was a starter.
All of these players still suck derriere.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2020, 05:28:29 PM
All of these players still suck derriere.None are good, but the would all look better next to Becton and Sewell.
Post by: delavan on October 30, 2020, 08:42:54 PM
None are good, but all would all look better next to Becton and Sewell.
True, but even with Becton the current NYJ OL grades out as ''average."
Mekhi Becton alone brings a unique (at present) physical dominance dynamic into play....the current NYJ OL does not, cannot, and will not.......including (the here overated) Geo. Fant.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 02, 2020, 10:40:06 AM
Quote
Daniel Jeremiah
@MoveTheSticks
·
39m
Biggest takeaway after watching tape all morning- so many teams missing OL starters and the replacements are STRUGGLING
But majority are still doing better than our almost healthy OL
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2020, 11:49:42 AM
Quote
Van Roten has been playing a lot better after a brutal start. Since W5 he has given up only 2 pressures. 1.1% pressure rate over span is 2nd-best among G
Lewis has been awful all year. 2nd-most pressures (25) & 4th-worst pressure rate (8.7%) among G
Should bench Lewis for Clark
Nania
Post by: Heismanberg on November 13, 2020, 11:52:28 AM
It'd be awesome to get a tackle prospect like Jalen Mayfield in the 20s, but I think he's too athletic to last that long.
Post by: Laxin on November 13, 2020, 12:26:25 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 13, 2020, 12:27:52 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 13, 2020, 12:28:46 PM
If we play Lewis and Clark together, maybe we'll discover new lands.
freak off, mate
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 13, 2020, 12:46:02 PM
If we play Lewis and Clark together, maybe we'll discover new lands.
Boooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2020, 01:18:59 PM
If we play Lewis and Clark together, maybe we'll discover new lands.
I would ban you for this but you deserve to be a spectator to your public shaming
Post by: Libero_2 on November 13, 2020, 02:14:18 PM
That Seahawks first rounder will likely be in the sweet spot of the first round for the best interior offensive linemen available.
It'd be awesome to get a tackle prospect like Jalen Mayfield in the 20s, but I think he's too athletic to last that long.
I would not in the slightest be upset if we did something nearly absurd and took Trey Smith and Daniel Faalele with Seattle's pick and our 2nd rounder. Reuben would probably throw a party.
Post by: delavan on November 14, 2020, 07:35:20 PM
I would not in the slightest be upset if we did something nearly absurd and took Trey Smith and Daniel Faalele with Seattle's pick and our 2nd rounder. Reuben would probably throw a party.
https://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php?action=post;quote=399932;topic=4904.105
Post by: Libero_2 on November 14, 2020, 07:38:14 PM
https://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php?action=post;quote=399932;topic=4904.105
As I said not upset in the slightest
Post by: delavan on November 14, 2020, 07:46:29 PM
As I said not upset in the slightest
Got it; just noting the same Smith/Faalele coincidence - big QB with (along with Becton) a bunch of huge bullies upfront would be nice.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 14, 2020, 07:59:56 PM
Got it; just noting the same Smith/Faalele coincidence - big QB with (along with Becton) a bunch of huge bullies upfront would be nice.
Had a fun OL thought the other day. I think Douglas is going to prioritize Joe Thuney in FA
Becton - Thuney - McGovern - Smith - Faalele
Cut Lewis, GVR and Clark are top interior backups, Fant might hold off Faalele or get traded, Edoga is the swing tackle.
Talk about a mammoth wall that is in front of Lawrence
6’7” 365, 6’5” 290, 6’4” 305, 6’6” 330, 6’9” 400
Good luck getting around that wall. Reuben would be so freaking excited
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 14, 2020, 10:39:31 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 14, 2020, 10:41:53 PM
Great idea, we’ll sign and draft 4 DTs instead
Better trade up as couple times to be sure.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 15, 2020, 07:01:52 AM
Good luck getting around that wall. Gase will be so freaking excited
FYP
Post by: Badger on November 15, 2020, 09:22:55 AM
Had a fun OL thought the other day. I think Douglas is going to prioritize Joe Thuney in FA
Becton - Thuney - McGovern - Smith - Faalele
Cut Lewis, GVR and Clark are top interior backups, Fant might hold off Faalele or get traded, Edoga is the swing tackle.
Talk about a mammoth wall that is in front of Lawrence
6’7” 365, 6’5” 290, 6’4” 305, 6’6” 330, 6’9” 400
Good luck getting around that wall. Reuben would be so freaking excited
Hnnnnngh
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 16, 2020, 03:16:38 PM
Vikings actually traded up with the Jets to draft him in 2017. Jets ended up getting ArDarius Stewart with the 3rd-round pick we got, and we traded the other pick and a late pick to get Dylan Donohue and Eli McGuire.
Great trade all around.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 16, 2020, 03:28:35 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 16, 2020, 03:37:50 PM
Quote
@MBGreen_JO
·
Nov 14
@jetoffensive go get him JoeQuoteIan Rapoport
@RapSheet
· Nov 14
Source: The #Vikings have released G Pat Elflein. The veteran now goes on waivers. Just off IR, he’s healthy now and this gives him the opportunity to get some real playing time elsewhere.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 16, 2020, 03:47:13 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 16, 2020, 03:49:29 PM
So who is the Elf man replacing?
Sheldon Richardson
Post by: Badger on November 16, 2020, 03:54:34 PM
So who is the Elf man replacing?Bauble Longings
Post by: Johnny English on November 16, 2020, 03:59:39 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 16, 2020, 04:03:15 PM
Before anyone gets excited, he's just come off IR and can't get in the team because Dakota Dozier is ahead of him.
Elflein went to school at Ohio St. He's Mangold approved.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 16, 2020, 04:16:34 PM
Frankly, if we want to replace Lewis, I would much rather see Clark
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 16, 2020, 07:51:36 PM
Elflein went to school at Ohio St. He's Mangold approved.
Quote
Per PFF, Pet Elflein has allowed 102 quarterback pressures and 17 sacks in 44 career games.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 16, 2020, 08:03:44 PM
Obviously, those stats are from terrorists. And ANTIFA. Sad!
Post by: MBGreen on November 28, 2020, 02:23:21 PM
@BrianCoz
·
49m
With some injuries along the OL, the Jets are bringing Jimmy Murray up from the practice squad, according to a source. #nyj
RIP
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 07, 2020, 04:10:22 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 07, 2020, 04:18:45 PM
https://twitter.com/brandonthornnfl/status/1336047591746920448?s=21
That play in the first half when he threw the guy to the ground and just kept abusing him long after the play was over and the official just completely ignored him was hilarious. It never quite escalated to the level of a flag, he was just stepping over him and stopping him from getting up.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 07, 2020, 04:21:39 PM
https://twitter.com/brandonthornnfl/status/1336047591746920448?s=21
I want this dude on the field more. If he can keep this up then I think we have a solid option to challenge for Alex Lewis’s job.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 07, 2020, 06:03:40 PM
I want this dude on the field more. If he can keep this up then I think we have a solid option to challenge for Alex Lewis’s job.
He already took his job
Post by: Libero_2 on December 07, 2020, 06:53:20 PM
I want this dude on the field more. If he can keep this up then I think we have a solid option to challenge for Alex Lewis’s job.
All I could think of watching the highlights was, "Lewis doesn't have a job anymore"
I still want to see Clark play at least a little bit, but Elflein has been an upgrade over Lewis so far.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 07, 2020, 10:32:45 PM
He already took his job
Good.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2020, 02:56:03 PM
Joe Douglas fixed the OL from worst in the league to 2nd worst in the league
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 09, 2020, 03:08:35 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/w7DVYvF/BB531-A1-A-BCCE-44-DD-918-F-E1758-AE8-DF14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YXvmbrF)
Joe Douglas fixed the OL from worst in the league to 2nd worst in the league
That chart is bullshit
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2020, 03:12:34 PM
That chart is bullshit
Agreed, the Jets are probably actually really good at run blocking and pass blocking
Post by: Heismanberg on December 09, 2020, 03:13:21 PM
Agreed, the Jets are probably actually really good at run blocking and pass blocking
I think we're more middle of the pack in both areas
Our offensive line certainly isn't 31 of 32
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2020, 03:15:44 PM
I think we're more middle of the pack in both areas
Our offensive line certainly isn't 31 of 32
Team Pass Block Win Rate
1. Green Bay Packers, 74%
2. Cleveland Browns, 71%
3. Arizona Cardinals, 68%
4. Buffalo Bills, 64%
5. Seattle Seahawks, 63%
6. New Orleans Saints, 63%
7. Kansas City Chiefs, 62%
8. Los Angeles Rams, 61%
9. Indianapolis Colts, 61%
10. New England Patriots, 61%
11. Philadelphia Eagles, 60%
12. Baltimore Ravens, 59%
13. Atlanta Falcons, 58%
14. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 58%
15. Las Vegas Raiders, 56%
16. Houston Texans, 56%
17. Washington Football Team, 55%
18. Minnesota Vikings, 55%
19. Carolina Panthers, 54%
20. San Francisco 49ers, 54%
21. Tennessee Titans, 53%
22. Detroit Lions, 53%
23. Dallas Cowboys, 53%
24. Chicago Bears, 53%
25. Denver Broncos, 52%
26. Jacksonville Jaguars, 52%
27. Cincinnati Bengals, 49%
28. Miami Dolphins, 49%
29. New York Jets, 48%
30. Pittsburgh Steelers, 48%
31. New York Giants, 46%
32. Los Angeles Chargers, 44%
Team Run Block Win Rate
1. Green Bay Packers, 74%
2. Arizona Cardinals, 73%
3. Washington Football Team, 73%
4. Philadelphia Eagles, 73%
5. Dallas Cowboys, 72%
6. Houston Texans, 72%
7. Cincinnati Bengals, 72%
8. Carolina Panthers, 72%
9. Indianapolis Colts, 71%
10. New England Patriots, 71%
11. Baltimore Ravens, 71%
12. New Orleans Saints, 71%
13. Cleveland Browns, 71%
14. New York Giants, 71%
15. Minnesota Vikings, 71%
16. Detroit Lions, 70%
17. Los Angeles Rams, 70%
18. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 70%
19. Jacksonville Jaguars, 70%
20. Chicago Bears, 70%
21. Tennessee Titans, 70%
22. Seattle Seahawks, 69%
23. Miami Dolphins, 69%
24. Denver Broncos, 69%
25. Pittsburgh Steelers, 69%
26. Las Vegas Raiders, 69%
27. Atlanta Falcons, 68%
28. San Francisco 49ers, 68%
29. New York Jets, 67%
30. Los Angeles Chargers, 67%
31. Buffalo Bills, 67%
32. Kansas City Chiefs, 67%
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2020, 03:17:30 PM
#4 in pass rush and #1 in run stop
Post by: Miamipuck on December 09, 2020, 03:21:03 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2020, 03:24:31 PM
The line is one cohesive unit and the Jets have a couple of pieces that are great and a couple that suck. So the numbers probably aren't that inaccurate in total.
The grade is probably heavily weighted by our interior OL. Becton and Fant have both missed time and were replaced by scrubs. Josh Andrews snaps sealed the deal.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 09, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Remember, these same exact metrics say that Quinnen is the most complete iDL in the league this year. Are we gonna argue against those numbers?
#4 in pass rush and #1 in run stop
We don't really need those metrics to see how big of a leap he's taken. I think it's a serious reach to grade him as the top run stopping interior lineman in the NFL.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 09, 2020, 03:28:17 PM
The grade is probably heavily weighted by our interior OL. Becton and Fant have both missed time and were replaced by scrubs. Josh Andrews snaps sealed the deal.
Exactly we all watch the tape of Becton erasing his guy but Darnold still running for his life. Also all the dumb run plays called by Gase up the middle when the interior of the line stinks. It doesn't take in context how horrible the play calling is, the lack of adjusting by Darnold. There's a lot of context and nuance that's missing from the grades or making them worse. In a dysfunctional offense is it really that surprising the line grades stink? It is the 31st ranked offense?
Post by: Johnny English on December 09, 2020, 03:28:45 PM
The grade is probably heavily weighted by our interior OL. Becton and Fant have both missed time and were replaced by scrubs. Josh Andrews snaps sealed the deal.
How do they determine a run block win? If they're grading the line based on Gase calling endless Gore runs up the gut then it's dumb.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 09, 2020, 03:30:14 PM
Exactly we all watch the tape of Becton erasing his guy but Darnold still running for his life.
Darnold's out there running for his life for no reason most of the time. He has absolutely no pocket presence anymore.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2020, 03:40:05 PM
We don't really need those metrics to see how big of a leap he's taken. I think it's a serious reach to grade him as the top run stopping interior lineman in the NFL.
“ He leads all interior defensive linemen in both pressures (20) and stops (12) over the past three weeks.”
-Today
“ Stops are tackles that constitute a failed play by the offense
Quinnen has 28 of those, #1 at the position.”
-11/30
“ Over 8 games, Quinnen Williams has 19 tackles against the run that held the runner to ≤2 yards and no first down.
That's 2.4 per game, which is not only better than any other IDL in the league, but better than any EDGE or S as well.”
-11/30
“ Most solo tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage among DTs
1. Aaron Donald (11)
2. Quinnen Williams (9)”
- 11/7
All from Nania
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2020, 03:43:01 PM
How do they determine a run block win? If they're grading the line based on Gase calling endless Gore runs up the gut then it's dumb.
“ Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Likewise, our pass block win rate metric conveys the rate linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer.
In run stop win rate, a defender can earn a win by doing any of the following: beating his blocker so he's in better position to stop the runner; disrupting the pocket or running lane by pushing his blocker backwards; containing the runner such that he must adjust his running lane; or recording a tackle within three yards of the line of scrimmage. If a defender earns a run stop win, his blocker earns a loss, and vice versa.“
This is still laughably subjective, but anyone saying they have more knowledge of the entire league on a week to week basis or a way to grade every snap of every player is dubious.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 09, 2020, 03:43:53 PM
Darnold's out there running for his life for no reason most of the time. He has absolutely no pocket presence anymore.
Exactly and that plays into a pass block rating for the line. Peytons lines always looked great because of Peyton.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
Darnold's out there running for his life for no reason most of the time. He has absolutely no pocket presence anymore.
Great comp to the way Darnold is playing right now is Carson Wentz. The Eagles are up there at #11 on the PBWR board.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 09, 2020, 04:00:26 PM
Great comp to the way Darnold is playing right now is Carson Wentz. The Eagles are up there at #11 on the PBWR board.
Then a lot is based on reputation and not actual play. Their line was great a few years ago.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 09, 2020, 04:13:12 PM
Then a lot is based on reputation and not actual play. Their line was great a few years ago.
Their line is in shambles right now, especially with Lane Johnson out.
They also have arguably the worst receiving corps in the NFL.
Roseman paid Wentz and let everything else go to excrement.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 09, 2020, 05:06:51 PM
Hasn't LG and RT basically been a turnstile with our center missing a little time?
Regardless it seems feasible we could be looking at least two early OL draft picks next year
Post by: Johnny English on December 09, 2020, 05:10:27 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2020, 04:40:54 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2020, 05:36:29 PM
GVR placed on IR
...and nothing of value was lost.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 12, 2020, 06:03:30 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 22, 2020, 09:02:13 AM
Where is Cam Clark
Post by: MBGreen on December 22, 2020, 09:03:09 AM
https://twitter.com/pff/status/1341387031482667008?s=21
Where is Cam Clark
out back...having a smoke with Lawrence Cager
Post by: insanity on December 22, 2020, 09:40:57 AM
https://twitter.com/pff/status/1341387031482667008?s=21And that is how you know that stat is meaningless. The highest win rate ever results in 3 tackles, 1 tfl, and 1 qb hit
Where is Cam Clark
Post by: Heismanberg on December 22, 2020, 09:42:39 AM
And that is how you know that stat is meaningless. The highest win rate ever results in 3 tackles, 1 tfl, and 1 qb hit
How many pressures?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2020, 09:48:48 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 28, 2020, 09:51:17 AM
Pat Elflein has made a huge difference
Thought exactly that yesterday. Massive upgrade on Lewis, and I love his attitude. He has a nasty streak, and he's constantly talking to other players. 100% a keeper, for me.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2020, 09:58:01 AM
I'm okay going into 2021 with this offensive line IF that right guard spot is fixed.
It'd be nice to sign an immediate starter like Scherff or Thuney, but I also wouldn't be opposed to drafting someone like Wyatt Davis or Rashawn Slater with Seattle's pick.
Post by: Johnny English on December 28, 2020, 09:59:40 AM
Becton - Elflein - McGovern - ? - Fant
I'm okay going into 2021 with this offensive line IF that right guard spot is fixed.
It'd be nice to sign an immediate starter like Scherff or Thuney, but I also wouldn't be opposed to drafting someone like Wyatt Davis or Rashawn Slater with Seattle's pick.
How scared are you of Trey Smith's blood clots?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2020, 10:01:45 AM
How scared are you of Trey Smith's blood clots?
I would take Davis and Slater over Smith, blood clots or not.
Post by: MBGreen on December 28, 2020, 10:04:54 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2020, 10:05:04 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 28, 2020, 11:06:29 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 28, 2020, 07:27:33 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 28, 2020, 07:40:19 PM
https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1343394662518841344
how much faith do you have in JD now? i like that both elflein and fant were both more or less under the radar players/additions that i think have done very well for us
Post by: Johnny English on December 28, 2020, 08:22:45 PM
how much faith do you have in JD now? i like that both elflein and fant were both more or less under the radar players/additions that i think have done very well for us
I've already said, I'm very hopeful. He's done more good than bad so far. This offseason will be the making or breaking of him and I'm optimistic, as long as our idiot owners stay out of his way.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2020, 09:42:08 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on December 28, 2020, 10:29:52 PM
The make or break for Joe Douglas will be who he hires to be the next coach of the franchise
It all begins with this
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 28, 2020, 11:21:56 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 29, 2020, 01:08:12 AM
(https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_8_desktop_mobile_2x/f_png/dolphins/wzrn4eo5jsfocxwvmy6k.png)
One of the things I am unabashadly excited for this offseason is the fact I will never need to see Dowell Loggains on a sideline again for this franchise, and while I'd hope to never see his face again, I am certain this image will be repeatedly posted for the next ten years.
Post by: MBGreen on December 29, 2020, 07:03:58 AM
I've already said, I'm very hopeful. He's done more good than bad so far. This offseason will be the making or breaking of him and I'm optimistic, as long as our idiot owners stay out of his way.Replace "hopeful" with "skeptical" and your post becomes accurate.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 29, 2020, 06:21:20 PM
Pass block (NFL rank)
Becton -- 84% (51/65)
Fant -- 85.2% (46/65)
Run block
Becton -- 76% (19/65)
Fant -- 66.9% (63/65)
- Cimini
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 29, 2020, 07:21:32 PM
"Win" rates for #Jets OTs (via @NextGenStats tracking data):https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings
Pass block (NFL rank)
Becton -- 84% (51/65)
Fant -- 85.2% (46/65)
Run block
Becton -- 76% (19/65)
Fant -- 66.9% (63/65)
- Cimini
Post by: Johnny English on December 29, 2020, 07:24:25 PM
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings
freaking eh
(https://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2020%2F1229%2Fr795907_1280x720_16%2D9.jpg&w=570&format=jpg)
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 29, 2020, 07:28:04 PM
Post by: Badger on December 29, 2020, 07:34:08 PM
While we've sucked for a decade, we always have good DL play, no matter who the names are.Building on that, everyone should consider we haven't had a >.500 team in my lifetime that didn't have a very good OL, so clearly one unit has a greater impact on success than the other.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 29, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
While we've sucked for a decade, we always have good DL play, no matter who the names are.
We keep drafting D line in the top 10 to replace the previous high picks we didn't want to pay when they got good.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 29, 2020, 08:38:25 PM
But when you're by far the worst team in the league getting blown out all the time, and opposing teams are just running out the clock on you in predictable situations. Wouldn't that artificially inflate your rushing statistics making your team look better than it is against the run?
I mean surely nobody thinks the Jets are so exceptionally good that we have
3 of the top 4 DL at stopping the run?
Not to suggest our guys aren't good, but statistically that's an anamoly
Post by: Johnny English on December 29, 2020, 09:07:59 PM
Not to suggest our run stoppers are garbage or anything.
But when you're by far the worst team in the league getting blown out all the time, and opposing teams are just running out the clock on you in predictable situations. Wouldn't that artificially inflate your rushing statistics making your team look better than it is against the run?
I mean surely nobody thinks the Jets are so exceptionally good that we have
3 of the top 4 DL at stopping the run?
Not to suggest our guys aren't good, but statistically that's an anamoly
So why aren't there any Jags or Bengals or Texans players on there?
Post by: dcm1602 on December 29, 2020, 09:44:07 PM
So why aren't there any Jags or Bengals or Texans players on there?
Well for starters the Jets have gotten blown out far more than any of those other teams, as reflected by our point margin for the season.
Teams aren't going to be as conservative offensively when they have a small lead.
Talent of our players certainly comes into play and in not suggesting that our guys aren't good/very good, simply that the numbers are bloated.
Scheduling and match ups is a factor as well, especially with the nfls small sample size
It also helps that we just played a better rushing team without any of their receivers so we were able to sell out against the run pretty effectively
It's not the sole detereminating factor. But let's not delude ourselves either. The Jets being the worst team in the league is a huge factor here
(to be fair Houston and Cincinnati both have bottom 4 rushing defenses}
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 30, 2020, 02:47:45 AM
Well for starters the Jets have gotten blown out far more than any of those other teams, as reflected by our point margin for the season.
Teams aren't going to be as conservative offensively when they have a small lead.
Talent of our players certainly comes into play and in not suggesting that our guys aren't good/very good, simply that the numbers are bloated.
Scheduling and match ups is a factor as well, especially with the nfls small sample size
It also helps that we just played a better rushing team without any of their receivers so we were able to sell out against the run pretty effectively
It's not the sole detereminating factor. But let's not delude ourselves either. The Jets being the worst team in the league is a huge factor here
(to be fair Houston and Cincinnati both have bottom 4 rushing defenses}
Have you watched any game or just making theories out of thin air?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 30, 2020, 05:31:23 AM
Not to suggest our run stoppers are garbage or anything.Why is that so hard to believe? Jets are allowing 3.9 yds per rush, 5th-best in the NFL, and we're playing our 7th-string linebackers, so I assume the reason isn't because of Harvey Langi and Bryce Hager.
But when you're by far the worst team in the league getting blown out all the time, and opposing teams are just running out the clock on you in predictable situations. Wouldn't that artificially inflate your rushing statistics making your team look better than it is against the run?
I mean surely nobody thinks the Jets are so exceptionally good that we have
3 of the top 4 DL at stopping the run?
Not to suggest our guys aren't good, but statistically that's an anamoly
It is padded a little bit because of the 4th quarter (Jets are at 4.3 yds per rush in the first 3 quarters, 8th-best in the NFL), but not that much. And the narrative used to be that teams wear down in run defense late in games, so clearly we don't.
I'm not sure if we have 3 of the top 4 run-stopping DL in the NFL, but considering how good we are against the run, and how beat up our LB corps is, someone has to be doing well against the run.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 30, 2020, 06:40:28 AM
Have you watched any game or just making theories out of thin air?
Have you watched every game for every team this year?
Because the numbers are saying 3 of the top 4 run stopping DL are on the Jets
I'd imagine the odds of that is comparable to getting diagnosed with covid cancer and aids all the same day
Post by: dcm1602 on December 30, 2020, 06:41:10 AM
Why is that so hard to believe? Jets are allowing 3.9 yds per rush, 5th-best in the NFL, and we're playing our 7th-string linebackers, so I assume the reason isn't because of Harvey Langi and Bryce Hager.
It is padded a little bit because of the 4th quarter (Jets are at 4.3 yds per rush in the first 3 quarters, 8th-best in the NFL), but not that much. And the narrative used to be that teams wear down in run defense late in games, so clearly we don't.
I'm not sure if we have 3 of the top 4 run-stopping DL in the NFL, but considering how good we are against the run, and how beat up our LB corps is, someone has to be doing well against the run.
It's hard to believe because of statistics and probability
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 30, 2020, 07:31:55 AM
It's hard to believe because of statistics and probabilitySo it's hard to believe the statistics because of...statistics?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 30, 2020, 09:30:39 AM
So it's hard to believe the statistics because of...statistics?
Classic dcm mode
Post by: Gorilla on December 30, 2020, 09:56:38 AM
I'd imagine the odds of that is comparable to getting diagnosed with covid cancer and aids all the same day
That would depend on how many of your posts the person read that day.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 30, 2020, 01:39:40 PM
That would depend on how many of your posts the person read that day.
Wow lol
Post by: Heismanberg on December 30, 2020, 01:40:41 PM
That would depend on how many of your posts the person read that day.
hahahahahahahahahaha
Post by: Johnny English on January 03, 2021, 05:23:47 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 07, 2021, 04:41:29 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 07, 2021, 04:45:32 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 03, 2021, 09:23:11 AM
Season
C McGovern -- 88.8% (33rd of 35 qualifying centers)
G Van Roten -- 89.9% (44th of 70 qualifying guards)
G Lewis -- 87.2% (61/70)
Splits
Wk 1-8
McGovern 87.2% (32/33)
GVR 90.4% (37/67)
Lewis 86.7% (59/67)
Wk 9-17
McGovern 90.6% (28/32)
GVR 88.9% (49/67)
Lewis DNQ
Elflein 85.1% (61/67)
- Cimini
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 11, 2021, 03:40:12 PM
LG: Alex Lewis / Cameron Clark / Corey Levin
OG: Greg Van Roten / Dan Feeney
We’re going to be starting a rookie QB. Becton/McGovern/Fant as a group is average.
We could use 2 starters through the draft and I don’t see that happening unless we spend some of our top picks at guard. I don’t know how likely that is and relying on rookies to step in right away is a somewhat risky strategy.
Otherwise we’re returning pretty much the same exact line as last year. I’ve already said my piece on that group.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 11, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Depth does look better and more experienced but we need a new starter somewhere on the interior.
I’m hoping we come away with Creed Humphrey or Kendrick Green outside of the first
Post by: Libero_2 on April 11, 2021, 04:19:31 PM
Same OL personnel but a better scheme
I’m hoping we come away with Creed Humphrey or Kendrick Green outside of the first
I've heard Green bandied around a bit lately, he's not one I know much of. But there are quite a few interesting OL for us to hunt for in the mid rounds
Creed Humphrey
Wyatt Davis
Kendrick Green
Josh Myers
Trey Smith
Quinn Meinerz
Ben Cleveland
Aaron Banks
Trey Hill
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 11, 2021, 04:22:40 PM
Just popping in here to remind everyone that our depth chart at OG is
LG: Alex Lewis / Cameron Clark / Corey Levin
OG: Greg Van Roten / Dan Feeney
We’re going to be starting a rookie QB. Becton/McGovern/Fant as a group is average.
We could use 2 starters through the draft and I don’t see that happening unless we spend some of our top picks at guard. I don’t know how likely that is and relying on rookies to step in right away is a somewhat risky strategy.
Otherwise we’re returning pretty much the same exact line as last year. I’ve already said my piece on that group.
this was part of the reason why i posted that i hope we go very offensive with our first few picks this year.
i get that OG may not be a premium position, but we have a plethora of picks this year and the next and for once i'd like us to get the QB timeline right. the draft is a crapshoot so spending a top pick on an OG is not even a guarantee to work out anyways, i get that, but the player we pick earlier on will likely be more polished and have a higher ceiling than any of the OGs we take with mid to late round picks. we took a project OG in the mid rounds with cam clark last year, waited all year for him to earn playing time that did not arrive, and are still wondering whether he'll actually get any meaningful play time this year.
if we're not going to focus on surrounding wilson with the most talent and the most protection as quickly as possible in a reasonable manner, i'd rather he sit out the first several games so that he doesn't get ruined by yet another half assed offensive development effort out there. even Joe D mentioned he felt guilty about the darnold trade because he couldn't get the timeline right or get him help fast enough so hopefully he takes that with him as a learning point moving forward
keeping the same exact line and subbing darnold for wilson isn't it. that shitty IOL isn't it. we have extra 1st/2nd/3rd round picks to find our next DE/LB or CB next year. like every other QB wilson is only going to have one 'developmental period' in his career and it's going to start after we draft him in less than 20 days.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 11, 2021, 04:49:09 PM
- Becton takes the next step into becoming a star, and he stays healthy.
- Fant has a little room to grow entering year 2 as a starting OT.
- McGovern and Fant's skillsets are accentuated in the new scheme.
- GVR, Feeney and Lewis have all started before, and Clark maybe could be good. Between that group, you might be able to get one decent starting OG.
- We have a number of picks to address IOL with 1 or 2 picks.
I assume we will draft at least one IOL in the top 40 picks, either at 23, 34, or a trade-up. Then I hope we get another IOL at some point in the draft, or we make another somewhat significant addition via FA or trade.
I would be totally fine if we went 2 guards in the first 3 rounds. The offensive line needs to improve. I think there is some room for growth internally, but we badly need to add more.
Post by: Laxin on April 11, 2021, 04:58:32 PM
I assume we will draft at least one IOL in the top 40 picks, either at 23, 34, or a trade-up. Then I hope we get another IOL at some point in the draft, or we make another somewhat significant addition via FA or trade.
I'm guessing one of the guard spots will be manned by an early draft pick like you said, and then they add another mid round prospect to compete with Clark, Lewis, GVR. You would hope that one out of that group would be capable of earning a starting spot.
Clark did miss most of last season with injury and he was considered a project coming from a small school and changing positions. It would have been nice to see him play the last 2-3 games though to get an idea of whether or not he's close to taking over the spot.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 11, 2021, 06:43:10 PM
Post by: Johnny English on April 11, 2021, 07:00:27 PM
Having a preseason again will be huge for Cam Clark.
4th round pick from a nothing program whose body has apparently thus far been unable to withstand the rigours of an NFL training program. I hope he turns out to be a great asset but odds are very much against right now.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 11, 2021, 07:06:31 PM
4th round pick from a nothing program whose body has apparently thus far been unable to withstand the rigours of an NFL training program. I hope he turns out to be a great asset but odds are very much against right now.
It doesn’t matter where he played.
If you can play, you can play...
Post by: Libero_2 on April 11, 2021, 07:16:37 PM
Having a preseason again will be huge for Cam Clark.
I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility JD is counting on a big jump from Clark to create a real competition for a starting spot and then go get a guy in round 2-3
Post by: delavan on April 11, 2021, 07:43:10 PM
It doesn’t matter where he played.
If you can play, you can play...
With all due respect, if Cam (even as a rookie) couldn't make an impression vs. Van Roten and/or Lewis over the course of a full 16-game season then maybe it should raise the question 'can you play?'
Post by: Heismanberg on April 11, 2021, 07:59:26 PM
With all due respect, if Cam (even as a rookie) couldn't make an impression vs. Van Roten and/or Lewis over the course of a full 16-game season then maybe it should raise the question 'can you play?'
He changed positions and got hurt.
The previous coaching staff also continued to play Frank Gore over Ty Johnson
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 11, 2021, 09:38:38 PM
When Dowell makes the depth chart
Post by: Badger on April 11, 2021, 10:55:13 PM
Should his presence on the roster even slightly deter the FO from using premium draft picks on OL talent? No.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 12, 2021, 02:19:38 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 12, 2021, 07:42:27 AM
If the FO thinks Clark has a chance to start, then they can justify going with Clark/GVR/Lewis/Feeney for one guard spot. But we still need a plug-and-play guard in the draft, which I would prefer as early as possible. And I would prefer bringing in two guys and adding to Becton as young building blocks on the line.
If we are going to take an IOL high, I hope that it's AVT because he can also play tackle.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 12, 2021, 07:44:22 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 12, 2021, 08:35:34 AM
Is there any expectation that there will be improvement on the line solely because of a new scheme and offensive coaches?
The running game should improve drastically
Post by: Johnny English on April 12, 2021, 08:43:14 AM
Is there any expectation that there will be improvement on the line solely because of a new scheme and offensive coaches? Maybe the new staff believes some of the excrement offensive line play was due to injuries, scheme and coaching.
It's my expectation that no one player or unit that was here last year will look as bad as they did, the question for me is whether they're capable of sufficient improvement to be worth keeping.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 13, 2021, 10:46:42 AM
Post by: Badger on April 13, 2021, 10:47:58 AM
Post by: MBGreen on April 13, 2021, 10:52:35 AM
Landon Dickerson is so good but his injury history is too big of a red flag.
I like Creed Humphrey at 34
Post by: Badger on April 13, 2021, 11:17:53 AM
I like Creed Humphrey at 34I'm on board for the possible memes.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 13, 2021, 11:22:41 AM
I like Creed Humphrey at 34
Kendrick Green in Round 3
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 08:34:58 AM
Just popping in here to remind everyone that our depth chart at OG is
LG: Alex Lewis / Cameron Clark / Corey Levin
OG: Greg Van Roten / Dan Feeney
We’re going to be starting a rookie QB. Becton/McGovern/Fant as a group is average.
We could use 2 starters through the draft and I don’t see that happening unless we spend some of our top picks at guard. I don’t know how likely that is and relying on rookies to step in right away is a somewhat risky strategy.
Otherwise we’re returning pretty much the same exact line as last year. I’ve already said my piece on that group.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/946/559/443)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 08:36:08 AM
LG: AVT
C: McGovern
RG: Lewis/GVR/Cam Clarke
RT: Fant
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 08:49:32 AM
LT: BectonWe should do Thunderdome to determine the RG
LG: AVT
C: McGovern
RG: Lewis/GVR/Cam Clarke
RT: Fant
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 08:51:18 AM
We should do Thunderdome to determine the RGHave their contracts sitting on a podium 10 yards behind them, Q lined up over them, if Q gets through he tears up the contract.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 08:54:48 AM
We should do Thunderdome to determine the RG
*Glass Shatters*
BUH GAWD!
That’s BRIAN WINTER’S MUSIC!!!
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 08:56:38 AM
*Glass Shatters*Brian Winters then walks past the ring and trips trying to make it around the announcers table.
BUH GAWD!
That’s BRIAN WINTER’S MUSIC!!!
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 30, 2021, 09:20:30 AM
LT: BectonThis can actually work and be fine.
LG: AVT
C: McGovern
RG: Lewis/GVR/Cam Clarke
RT: Fant
Obviously, I don't love any of the individual right guards, but all those guys have either started in the NFL (Lewis, GVR, Feeney) or Clarke, a 4th-round pick entering year 2 who hopefully can contribute. If we want to use our draft picks elsewhere, we can survive with having a competition for the other guard spot.
The problem was when we needed to start 2 of those guys.
I think our evaluation of Clarke will have a lot to do with how we address OL the rest of the draft. If they like Clarke and think he can compete this year, then we probably don't need to address the position. If we're nervous about Clarke from last year, bringing in a Day 2/early Day 3 OL makes a lot of sense still.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 30, 2021, 09:21:52 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on April 30, 2021, 09:24:23 AM
Brian Winters then walks past the ring and trips trying to make it around the announcers table.
And gets flagged for holding
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 09:27:46 AM
And gets flagged for holding
Then berates the franchise QB, gets hurt, and receives a blowjob from Johnny English
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 09:28:30 AM
Just draft Creed/Jenkins and be done with OL for the next several years
If they draft Creed/Jenkins I could turn off the rest of the draft and be 100% happy
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 09:38:19 AM
If they draft Creed/Jenkins I could turn off the rest of the draft and be 100% happyYou're not gonna punch a hole in the wall if we take a safety in the 5th?
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 09:39:30 AM
You're not gonna punch a hole in the wall if we take a safety in the 5th?
I look fwd to this place burning when we take Moehrig at 34
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 09:39:53 AM
You're not gonna punch a hole in the wall if we take a safety in the 5th?If we take another DE in the fourth Loyal ia going to start stalking Douglas' kids at Phillies games.
Post by: delavan on April 30, 2021, 09:47:09 AM
http://www.thejetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,4904.msg427017.html#msg427017
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 30, 2021, 10:00:30 AM
You're not gonna punch a hole in the wall if we take a safety in the 5th?
If we fix the OL (on paper) in preparation for our rookie QB to step in, I will be the most zen I have been in years
We took freaking Nathan Shepherd with our next pick after taking Darnold
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 30, 2021, 10:16:46 AM
If we fix the OL (on paper) in preparation for our rookie QB to step in, I will be the most zen I have been in years
We took freaking Nathan Shepherd with our next pick after taking Darnold
This
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2021, 10:18:47 AM
If we fix the OL (on paper) in preparation for our rookie QB to step in, I will be the most zen I have been in yearsI too agree with this sentiment.
We took freaking Nathan Shepherd with our next pick after taking Darnold
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 10:30:20 AM
If we fix the OL (on paper) in preparation for our rookie QB to step in, I will be the most zen I have been in years
We took freaking Nathan Shepherd with our next pick after taking Darnold
Get ready for Trevon Moehrig at 34
*runs and hides*
Post by: Johnny English on April 30, 2021, 12:57:40 PM
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2021, 01:31:04 PM
I still don't think McGovern is great, but I don't know enough about the centers in the draft to know if there's a good upgrade available.IIRC Creed Humphrey could play G and C. Don't know if he's an upgrade at C but he'd add to that versatile depth we want.
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 01:32:09 PM
IIRC Creed Humphrey can play G and C. Don't know if he's an upgrade at C but he'd add to that versatile depth we want.
I think he can be had in the 3rd round....hopefully Douglas works his magic.
Post by: AlioTheFool on April 30, 2021, 02:25:40 PM
I'd be happy going Jenkins at 34 and drafting a center next April.
Post by: reuben on April 30, 2021, 02:37:12 PM
(https://static.www.nfl.com/image/private/f_auto,q_auto/league/god-combine-headshots/2021/e3f6d70e-7818-4dd8-a724-9fb0e667f599)
(http://www.snakkle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/mark-holton-pee-wee-hermans-big-adventure-movie-1985-photo-GC.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 02:38:24 PM
Never speak ill of him again.
(https://jeffpearlman.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/5cb20-screen-shot-2017-03-02-at-8.35.40-pm.jpg)
Post by: Johnny English on April 30, 2021, 02:52:24 PM
He's a big fat farmer's boy from Oklahoma though, and that sounds like perfect lineman country. I will take him.
Post by: Badger on May 01, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
You're not gonna punch a hole in the wall if we take a safety in the 5th?Lmao
Post by: Libero_2 on May 01, 2021, 01:19:16 PM
Lmao
He's a linebacker, so it's fine
Post by: Badger on May 01, 2021, 01:24:08 PM
He's a linebacker, so it's fineBut wait
Post by: Libero_2 on May 01, 2021, 01:24:34 PM
But wait
Or can he be an LB too?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 01, 2021, 02:52:32 PM
You're not gonna punch a hole in the wall if we take safety with every remaining pick
Post by: dcm1602 on May 02, 2021, 07:18:18 AM
But it seems like we still have a pretty shitty OL going into next year
The left side is locked down and pretty solid, but the other 3 positions, I could easily see us being bad at
Post by: MBGreen on May 02, 2021, 07:22:15 AM
I know Joe Douglas gets jerked off for being an OL guruFant is a solid RT.
But it seems like we still have a pretty shitty OL going into next year
The left side is locked down and pretty solid, but the other 3 positions, I could easily see us being bad at
Quit trolling
Post by: insanity on May 02, 2021, 07:25:16 AM
I know Joe Douglas gets jerked off for being an OL guruWhy are you the way you are?
But it seems like we still have a pretty shitty OL going into next year
The left side is locked down and pretty solid, but the other 3 positions, I could easily see us being bad at
McGovern and famt are avg players at worst.
If fant doesn't work out we have avt, chuma, or Clark
If gvr doesn't work out we have Lewis, clark, or feeney
If McG doesn't work out we will get AVTs dad
Is this line top 5, no. But its got a ton of depth that ensures zach won't see ghosts
Post by: dcm1602 on May 02, 2021, 07:32:23 AM
Quote
They allowed pressure in 2.5 seconds or less on 28% of their dropbacks — the worst rate in the NFL. The line wasn’t creating many lanes in the run game, either. The Jets averaged just 1.1 yards per carry before contact per rushing attempt in 2020 (30th).
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2021, 07:34:45 AM
As always, STFU.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 02, 2021, 07:37:37 AM
We have a new coaching staff, a new blocking scheme, and we just massively upgraded the left side of our offensive line.
As always, STFU.
I don't disagree that we will be better scheme/coaching wise and AVT is by far my favorite draft pick.
But when you have a, by almost all metrics bottom 3 OL. And plan on drafting a rookie QB, it would be nice to see greater efforts to improve the OL.i don't think too 20 OL is unfathomable, but I see top 15 being fairly unattainable
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2021, 07:40:54 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on May 02, 2021, 07:44:02 AM
"we shoulda kept the third round picks!"
I would've actually been happy if we drafted an OL in the second and opted against Moore
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2021, 07:49:22 AM
I would've actually been happy if we drafted an OL in the second and opted against Moore
This is also stupid
Post by: Badger on May 02, 2021, 08:19:14 AM
Or of course someone could get injured and the whole thing goes out the window, but nobody should feel vindicated for predicting that.
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 02, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 02, 2021, 04:04:57 PM
- Becton turns into a star
- AVT is average right away and can hopefully improve as the season goes on
- McGovern and Fant are helped by the new scheme where athleticism hopefully matters a little more
- Between Clark, Lewis, Feeney and Van Roten, you can find a serviceable guard. This isn't a bad strategy if it's only for one position.
It puts a lot of faith in AVT being good right away. There's a low bar for him to be an upgrade from last year, but if he can be legitimately good right away, then that can be a significant upgrade.
Becton also only played about 70% of snaps last season. He needs to stay healthy. If he does, that's an upgrade, too, and he should get better Year 1 to Year 2.
Fant is also a guy that even though he's going to be 29 Week 1, he conceivably could have more untapped upside, too, since he was late to football.
Worst case scenario, Becton doesn't stay healthy, AVT is OK but underwhelming, and the offensive line sucks again. That is within the realm of possibilities.
Best case scenario, Becton is an all-pro, AVT is very good, McGovern and Fant play well enough, and we find a lightning-in-a-bottle answer at guard. Elflein played well for us - maybe that guy can be Lewis or GVR or Clark or Feeney this year. That could be a league-average or better OL if things break right.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 02, 2021, 10:10:30 PM
I feel fine about a Clarke/Lewis/GVR RG competition. One of them should be able to play well enough to hold the fort.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2021, 10:11:20 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on May 02, 2021, 10:12:31 PM
Why do you guys keep adding the "e" at the end of Clark?
When he earns his starting role in August, people will drop the 'E'
Post by: reuben on May 02, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
Why do you guys keep adding the "e" at the end of Clark?
Lasting Adrien Clarke trauma
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 02, 2021, 10:23:29 PM
Why do you guys keep adding the "e" at the end of Clark?
Players I don’t care about I don’t really give a excrement to spell their name correctly, Nathan Shepherd is lucky
For some reason CJ Mosley is my toughest one I always want to say CJ Mosely
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2021, 10:30:37 PM
Players I don’t care about I don’t really give a excrement to spell their name correctly, Nathan Shepherd is lucky
For some reason CJ Mosley is my toughest one I always want to say CJ Mosely
Cameron Cucke
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 02, 2021, 10:35:57 PM
Cameron Cucke
This is his name if he can’t beat out Alex Lewis and Greg Van Roten
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 03, 2021, 03:58:09 AM
Lasting Adrien Clarke traumaThat really might be it.
Post by: insanity on May 03, 2021, 06:16:01 AM
Why do you guys keep adding the "e" at the end of Clark?Who cares
Post by: Heismanberg on May 03, 2021, 06:22:16 AM
Who cares
Me, obviously
Post by: insanity on May 03, 2021, 06:28:27 AM
Me, obviouslySpell checking internet strangers on 3rd string players sounds like a fun life
Post by: Badger on May 03, 2021, 06:29:16 AM
Spell checking internet strangers on 3rd string players sounds like a fun lifeSpelle checking
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 03, 2021, 10:27:33 AM
i'm hoping clark steps the eff up this offseason so we don't have to see either GVR or alex lewshit in a starting capacity again
every name in this post is spelled correctly
Post by: dcm1602 on May 19, 2021, 02:22:00 AM
Not certain on the math with Fant if anything has become more guaranteed recently, but according to old articles the cap savings of Fant would mitigate over half of the salary cost of Moses.
Haven't seen the Jets tied to him yet, though the Jets were listed as one of the teams that's an ideal candidate to trade for him
Not sure how much of an upgrade it would be as it seems like Moses has tailed off a bit in recent years.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 19, 2021, 06:03:53 AM
Apparently Morgan Moses is on the trade block from the Redskins, rated as a top 10 RT last year, and expected to be mostly a salary dump for the skins not requiring a ton of pick compensation for him
Not certain on the math with Fant if anything has become more guaranteed recently, but according to old articles the cap savings of Fant would mitigate over half of the salary cost of Moses.
Haven't seen the Jets tied to him yet, though the Jets were listed as one of the teams that's an ideal candidate to trade for him
Not sure how much of an upgrade it would be as it seems like Moses has tailed off a bit in recent years.
Don’t think we’re in on RT
Didn’t show any interest in Villanueva or Charles Leno who were cut and FA’s and I’m guessing are in a similar talent tier to this guy
Post by: Heismanberg on May 19, 2021, 06:27:51 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on May 19, 2021, 07:13:09 AM
Don’t think we’re in on RT
Didn’t show any interest in Villanueva or Charles Leno who were cut and FA’s and I’m guessing are in a similar talent tier to this guy
I'm not gonna pretend to be an OL expert.
But Leno was 26th ranked by PFF and got a backup $$$ contract
Villa was middle of the back among tackles per PFF, is going to be 33 week 1, and primarily has played LT his career.
It's probably unlikely we're going to trade for an RT though.
Unless of course we decided to trade Fant for him straight up, which would be a wonderful trade for both teams.
The skins get rid of a malcontent, and in return get a guy who can play both left and right tackle, which are both huge question marks
And we get a clear upgrade at RT albeit 2 years older
Sounds like a win win to me
Post by: Badger on May 20, 2021, 05:09:13 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on May 20, 2021, 06:57:39 PM
Morgan Moses releasedid be curious to see if we give him a call to gauge price
Fant was a leader last year, albeit on an untalented 2-14 team. So it will be very interesting if we make a move there
Post by: reuben on May 20, 2021, 07:58:52 PM
Douglas doesn't seem to be in the business of giving starting jobs to old vets over young guys, especially his young guys, especially his young guys who have proven themselves to be capable starters.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 20, 2021, 09:39:19 PM
Post by: Badger on May 20, 2021, 09:52:42 PM
Why does everyone think Fant was bad last year?He wasn't bad but he could be upgraded. I won't be mad if we pass on Moses.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 21, 2021, 08:42:22 AM
"Win" rates for #Jets OTs (via @NextGenStats tracking data):
Pass block (NFL rank)
Becton -- 84% (51/65)
Fant -- 85.2% (46/65)
Run block
Becton -- 76% (19/65)
Fant -- 66.9% (63/65)
- Cimini
Looks to be pretty bad in the run game. Hopefully the new scheme and not having Le’Veon Bell and Frank Gore at RB should improve that grade. Clearly his performance was subpar since none of that affected Becton.
He also missed 3-4 (?) games last year so overall I can’t say he was anything better than average, and I think that’s being kind.
Post by: Badger on May 21, 2021, 09:16:09 AM
Post by: Johnny English on May 21, 2021, 10:02:27 AM
I've seen those numbers before and it kinda puzzles me that a big mauler rookie isn't better at run blocking over pass pro.
Part of it is probably scheme, and part of it is probably the fact that they both had guards next to them that provided absolutely no help. Plus also there's the fact that PFF pull numbers out of their derriere and then present them as gospel.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 21, 2021, 10:04:31 AM
Post by: Johnny English on May 21, 2021, 10:05:48 AM
Do we have a name thread for our offensive line?
STOP IT
Post by: bojanglesman on May 21, 2021, 10:06:47 AM
STOP IT
Perforated Pals
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 21, 2021, 10:07:01 AM
As far as I remember, we were much more successful running off of left tackle so I can't imagine he was doing THAT poorly.
Or maybe he's just a better pass blocker than most figured he would be coming out of college given that he looks like a typical run blocking tackle.
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 21, 2021, 10:07:28 AM
Do we have a name thread for our offensive line?
International House of Pancakes.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 21, 2021, 10:08:14 AM
International House of Pancakes.
I'm not sure if you are aware, but this is reserved for terrible names.
Post by: Johnny English on May 21, 2021, 10:09:47 AM
International House of Pancakes.
That's.... actually good.
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 21, 2021, 10:09:59 AM
I'm not sure if you are aware, but this is reserved for terrible names.
And pissing off JE.
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 21, 2021, 10:15:51 AM
That's.... actually good.
Good, we can name both sides IHOP.
Post by: Johnny English on May 21, 2021, 10:21:44 AM
Good, we can name both sides IHOP.
You're not thinking big enough. We'll just rename the entire team the New York IHOPs.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 21, 2021, 10:26:29 AM
You're not thinking big enough. We'll just rename the entire team the New York IHOPs.International House of Punting.
International House of Prrrt
Post by: MBGreen on May 21, 2021, 10:36:55 AM
Do we have a name thread for our offensive line?
The Protectionoids
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 21, 2021, 11:05:27 AM
Post by: MBGreen on May 21, 2021, 11:07:46 AM
Five People who Play in the NFL.
Our WRs can be YardsAfterCatchenoids
Post by: MBGreen on May 21, 2021, 11:19:15 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 21, 2021, 11:30:27 AM
Post by: Badger on May 21, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
Five People who Play in the NFL.The Featherless Bipeds
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 21, 2021, 12:17:30 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 21, 2021, 12:20:34 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 21, 2021, 04:58:53 PM
Big Titty Blockers
'see the green
run in between
those titties'
id bet good money this is another reference our boy JE will unfortunately not get
Post by: Johnny English on May 21, 2021, 05:52:39 PM
'see the green
run in between
those titties'
id bet good money this is another reference our boy JE will unfortunately not get
Not a clue.
Post by: delavan on May 21, 2021, 11:00:35 PM
@mjsexay: any ideas?
Post by: reuben on May 21, 2021, 11:45:57 PM
OL: good on the left, bad on the right
@mjsexay: any ideas?
Another goddamn drone criticizing Greg Van Roten, pretending Adrien Clarke never happened.
Post by: delavan on May 22, 2021, 05:52:41 AM
Another goddamn drone criticizing Greg Van Roten, pretending Adrien Clarke never happened.
https://melayukini.net/wiki/Greg_Van_Roten
https://www.prospectpark.org/news-events/news/meet-adrian-clarke-director-tennis-center/
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 22, 2021, 01:00:32 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 22, 2021, 03:17:49 PM
Those are 4 guys that either have NFL starting experience, or were drafted high enough where they could be a starter at some point. Having those 4 guys compete for 1 starting spot and letting the best man win is a perfectly viable way to handle one guard spot.
The only thing is Douglas is putting a lot of faith in Vera-Tucker. We need him to be an instant-impact starter, both in terms of the build of our roster, and in terms of the draft capital forfeited in the trade up. If AVT isn't as advertised, things become a lot dicier.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 25, 2021, 02:22:41 PM
I've seen those numbers before and it kinda puzzles me that a big mauler rookie isn't better at run blocking over pass pro.
His RB grade wasn’t better, but his grade relative to the rest of the position group was.
19th in run blocking
51st in pass blocking
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 25, 2021, 02:25:00 PM
Part of it is probably scheme, and part of it is probably the fact that they both had guards next to them that provided absolutely no help. Plus also there's the fact that PFF pull numbers out of their derriere and then present them as gospel.
ESPN stats.
PBWR/RBWR measures the percentage of reps where a blocker holds his block longer than 2.5 seconds.
Probably, to your point.
Post by: MBGreen on May 27, 2021, 07:09:40 AM
@FieldYates
· 13m
The Jets and G Alex Lewis have agreed to a reworked contract that pays him a base salary of $3M this year (previously $5.8M) while eliminating the final year of the deal in 2022.
Lewis, who is competing for the starting RG spot, is now scheduled to be a free agent in 2022.
Post by: Johnny English on May 27, 2021, 07:38:17 AM
Post by: MBGreen on May 27, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
So he's agreed to a deal for less money and less term? That's some negotiating. I'm guessing he was told "take this deal or we're cutting you" and his agent figured he wasn't getting anything better anywhere else.
He still might get cut. He's competing for the RG spot in TC, it's not being handed to him.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 27, 2021, 08:00:46 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 27, 2021, 08:27:41 AM
He still might get cut. He's competing for the RG spot in TC, it's not being handed to him.At $3 million, he'll likely stay as a backup even if he doesn't win the job at RG. He isn't a good guard, but he's really good for a backup.
Post by: MBGreen on May 27, 2021, 09:18:56 AM
At $3 million, he'll likely stay as a backup even if he doesn't win the job at RG. He isn't a good guard, but he's really good for a backup.
Unless he goes mental again like he did last season.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 27, 2021, 10:03:51 AM
Unless he goes mental again like he did last season.Just tell him the DL across from him talked about his mama. We can have our own Bobby Boucher.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 27, 2021, 05:33:12 PM
So he's agreed to a deal for less money and less term? That's some negotiating. I'm guessing he was told "take this deal or we're cutting you" and his agent figured he wasn't getting anything better anywhere else.
It only says base salary, so we don't know about incentives.
I'll go out and assume that he had very little guaranteed money on the table next year. So rather than having the Jets able to hold him hostage he will immediately be a free agent after this season.
With the increased cap space for teams around the league, plus he will now be a free agent at age 29 (instead of 30 the following year) id assume he is just gambling on himself.
If the Jets cut him outright right now odds are he'd be settling for a one year deal anyway and having to fight to start.
So I don't think its horrifically stupid on his part
Post by: MBGreen on June 01, 2021, 08:22:15 AM
@RapSheet
· 2m
Former Washington Football Team OT Morgan Moses, who is visiting the #Bears today, visited the #Jets last week, source said. He could end up taking more visits.
O rly
Post by: Badger on June 01, 2021, 10:10:56 AM
Ian RapoportDue Diligence
@RapSheet
· 2m
Former Washington Football Team OT Morgan Moses, who is visiting the #Bears today, visited the #Jets last week, source said. He could end up taking more visits.
O rly
Post by: bojanglesman on June 08, 2021, 12:39:35 PM
Post by: insanity on June 08, 2021, 02:15:58 PM
If we sign Moses, I'm not sure what you do with Fant. I guess you could cut him. A bit pricey for a swing tackle. Maybe Doug can take him to Crowder School of Salary Reduction.It would be insurance for becton
Post by: MBGreen on June 13, 2021, 09:05:20 AM
@uSTADIUM
·
3m
Source said the #Jets still remain very interested in OT Morgan Moses. Not sure if he’s close to a decision but the #Jets are one of, if not the most interested, in the offensive tackle.
Post by: bojanglesman on June 13, 2021, 10:11:42 AM
Post by: MBGreen on June 29, 2021, 07:54:22 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on July 03, 2021, 03:24:20 PM
I had a quick boner, then sadness.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 10, 2021, 09:43:32 AM
Quote
We've claimed OL David Moore and waived OL Teton Saltes.
RIP Salty funbags
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 15, 2021, 07:54:21 PM
I mean, I'd be the first to tell you I'm not an expert evaluating lineman tape. But when I watch that video, I see him be the only lineman being routinely pushed backwards on run plays, and in one-on-one assignments his man is regularly the first to hit the runner. It looks like he moves well in space and contributes to double teams well, but gets out-leveraged and stood up really easily. He may be versatile but to me he looked like the worst lineman out there:
1:02 mediocre rep, chips and gets to the second level where he doesn't do much in space
1:11 bad rep, shoved into backfield and controlled by dlineman, luckily he's the only lineman who gets beaten so there's a large cutback lane. His man still gets the first hit on the run carrier
2:05 bad rep, stood up and gets controlled at line of scrimmage, rest of the line gets a push and his man makes the tackle for minimal loss
2:17 mediocre rep, gets walked back and turned in pass pro
2:30 mediocre rep, not doing much in space on the backside of a run
2:50 mediocre rep, pulls and gets to his spot but is completely unable to move his man who is in on the tackle at the line of scrimmage
3:23 bad rep, gets controlled at the line, his man gets in on the stop for a short gain
3:47 bad rep, pushed off the line, his man makes the stop for a short gain
4:30 bad rep, gets knocked on his derriere in pass protection
4:40 bad rep, immediately gets tossed aside and his man is the first person to stuff the runner on fourth and short
I think he's been fun this offseason, but I think the less of him we see during the regular season the better.
I was trying to not keep this argument going in the Wilson thread, but this essentially falls in line with what I saw.
I mentioned the 4:30 rep in my first post but the 2:50 is considerably worse for me. He gets to where he should be when he should, and his assignment still gets first contact on the runner.
Valuable, versatile depth
I agree with one word here.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 18, 2021, 10:49:28 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on August 18, 2021, 10:53:06 AM
With Clark being put on IR and Lewis retiring, IOL depth is looking a bit thin.Still workin'....
(https://i.ibb.co/rFtVJgn/mullet.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on August 18, 2021, 10:54:31 AM
With Clark being put on IR and Lewis retiring, IOL depth is looking a bit thin.
The David Moore waiver claim fills one of those spots.
Becton
Moses
Fant
McDermott
Edoga
GVR
AVT
Feeney
Levin
Moore
McGovern
Murray
---
It could definitely be better, but it's been worse
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 18, 2021, 10:59:03 AM
Feeney now the main backup inside, if he wasn't already. At least he has starting experience, but as we all have discussed, hopefully he doesn't need to play.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 18, 2021, 11:02:05 AM
Not sure what to think of Moore since he got cut so early in camp, but we might need him.Yeah, no one's pretending he's good, but he is good for a backup.
Feeney now the main backup inside, if he wasn't already. At least he has starting experience, but as we all have discussed, hopefully he doesn't need to play.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 18, 2021, 11:17:14 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 18, 2021, 11:25:14 AM
Now Morgan Moses limps off.
He's back in
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 18, 2021, 11:27:17 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 18, 2021, 11:29:49 AM
Pass protection really struggling, apparentlyPass protection has been a disaster all training camp, even with Quinnen out.
That said, there is a legitimate possibility that our defensive line is just that good. Huff and JFM could be legit pass rushers in the NFL. Rankins and Lawson have been those guys in the past and could be even better in a different system/at full health. Foley isn't a pass rusher, but he's also an absolute beast.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 18, 2021, 11:45:18 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 18, 2021, 11:51:10 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 18, 2021, 11:52:05 AM
Unleash Chuma
He's injured (of course)
Post by: Heismanberg on August 18, 2021, 11:52:28 AM
Dodged a bullet by moving up for AVT.
Post by: reuben on August 18, 2021, 12:32:18 PM
Teven Jenkins is likely going to miss all of 2021 with a back injury.
Dodged a bullet by moving up for AVT.
I'd feel better if AVT wasn't missing his entire rookie training camp with a sprained titty.
Post by: MBGreen on August 18, 2021, 12:36:23 PM
I'd feel better if AVT wasn't missing his entire rookie training camp with a sprained titty.
He'll be back soon, he's already doing individual drills in pads.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 18, 2021, 01:23:40 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on August 18, 2021, 02:46:54 PM
2 were Preston Smith beating Becton. 1 was Kamal Martin beating him. 1 was a CB (Eric Stokes) coming around his side. Keke had 2 inside. Couldnt tell who he beat from field level. 1 was coverage sack. 2 other times Smith beat Becton, looked like sacks, but play continued
So uh potentially 4 sacks against Becton? Though presumably the CB wasn't on him
Post by: Heismanberg on August 18, 2021, 04:08:07 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 18, 2021, 04:09:36 PM
Tons of pressure on the OL in those kind of drills.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 18, 2021, 04:21:30 PM
Connor Hughes, OL expertBecton was beaten like a 2008 Marvel Batman special edition at Comicon East 2019.
Post by: insanity on August 18, 2021, 04:45:11 PM
Becton was beaten like a 2008 Marvel Batman special edition at Comicon East 2019.Batman is DC
Post by: bojanglesman on August 18, 2021, 05:16:30 PM
Batman is DCAre you Connor Hughes?
Post by: Badger on August 18, 2021, 10:06:06 PM
Batman is DCIt was a very special edition
Post by: MBGreen on August 19, 2021, 08:04:24 AM
Still workin'....
(https://i.ibb.co/rFtVJgn/mullet.jpg)
just pipe a heathy dose of Dokken & Queensryche into Feeney's helmet during the regular season, and watch him morph into Steve Hutchinson.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 19, 2021, 09:27:21 AM
just pipe a heathy dose of Dokken & Queensryche into Feeney's helmet during the regular season, and watch him morph into Steve Hutchinson.He's clearly a Foghat guy. Rub some Arby's sauce on his facemask and enjoy the miracles.
Post by: MBGreen on August 19, 2021, 09:34:15 AM
He's clearly a Foghat guy. Rub some Arby's sauce on his facemask and enjoy the miracles.
Arbys sauce cures covid19 and some strains of AIDS.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 19, 2021, 09:47:30 AM
Arbys sauce cures covid19 and some strains of AIDS.(https://i.gifer.com/4fa.gif)
Post by: delavan on August 19, 2021, 12:42:35 PM
He's clearly a Foghat guy..He looks it
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Foghat-slow_ride_single.jpg)
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 19, 2021, 12:48:55 PM
https://twitter.com/Djbienaime/status/1428413299721445389?s=20
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2021, 07:43:30 AM
LT Mekhi Becton: 59.7
LG Alijah Vera-Tucker: 40.6
C Connor McGovern: 49.3
RG Greg Van Roten: 58.0
RT George Fant: 48.9
Post by: Johnny English on September 13, 2021, 08:01:47 AM
Here are the pass blocking grades for the #Jets starting OL
LT Mekhi Becton: 59.7
LG Alijah Vera-Tucker: 40.6
C Connor McGovern: 49.3
RG Greg Van Roten: 58.0
RT George Fant: 48.9
Where did you get those from? According to Hughes, PFF had the following:
LT Mekhi Becton: 66.4
LG Alijah Vera-Tucker: 65.1
C Connor McGovern: 45.4
RG Greg Van Roten: 54.3
RT George Fant: 60.1
Obviously the usual caveats about grading individual linemen without knowing their assignments apply.
Edit: just realised you posted the pass blocking grades, I posted the overall grade.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on September 13, 2021, 12:25:09 PM
Post by: ons on September 13, 2021, 02:19:09 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 10:57:05 AM
Quote
#Jets center Connor McGovern finished with a PFF grade of 85.5 against the #Patriots. Quite the bounce back after he struggled against the #Panthers. George Fant (71.6), Alijah Vera-Tucker (69.2) and Morgan Moses (68.5) also graded out well.
Hughes
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 10:57:32 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 10:59:15 AM
Quote
Greg Van Roten allowed 6 QB pressures and 2 sacks against the Patriots.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2021, 11:00:43 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 20, 2021, 11:02:57 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 20, 2021, 11:56:53 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 20, 2021, 03:16:17 PM
Hughes
I'd assume that these numbers are severely inflated because the Patriots were constantly only rushing 4?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 03:17:39 PM
I'd assume
don't do this
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:27:40 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 20, 2021, 04:29:06 PM
If GVR continues to play this poorly, when/if Becton comes back the team has to seriously consider moving Fant to right guard.
I don’t see anything in Fant’s game that tells me he would be proficient in this.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 04:29:59 PM
After two games, it's pretty obvious who the weak link is
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:30:34 PM
I don’t see anything in Fant’s game that tells me he would be proficient in this.
I'm mostly using the logic that he can't be worse, but he is bigger and ostensibly more athletic so it's at least worth the shot IMO.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2021, 04:37:32 PM
I don't know anything about Isaiah Williams, but he was added to the active roster last week. He's 28 and has been bouncing around practice squads since 2016 and never gotten much of a chance beyond that.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 04:39:03 PM
I don't know anything about Isaiah Williams, but he was added to the active roster last week. He's 28 and has been bouncing around practice squads since 2016 and never gotten much of a chance beyond that.
The Jets released him a few hours ago
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2021, 04:42:19 PM
The Jets released him a few hours agoFarewell, sweet prince. Back to the practice squad you go.
As bad as Feeney was in the preseason, there can't be a long leash on GVR. He wasn't good last year, and he's the weak link this year. Bye is in Week 6. If we haven't seen improvement, I hope GVR is replaced at the bye, if not potentially sooner.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:43:19 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 04:46:59 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 04:57:43 PM
It really sucks that Cam Clark got hurt again.
Of all of our injuries, that was one of the most disappointing for me.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2021, 05:10:01 PM
Of all of our injuries, that was one of the most disappointing for me.
Carl Lawson's cannot be topped
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 20, 2021, 06:07:10 PM
Carl Lawson's cannot be topped
Of course not. That's why I said "one of the most". Lawson's was far and away the most devastating injury.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 20, 2021, 08:10:59 PM
Carl Lawson's cannot be topped
I honestly had zero faith in a FA EDGE signing actually producing for us so this didn't really hurt me that much.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 21, 2021, 11:09:06 AM
✔
@PFF_AustinGayle
Only two teams have allowed QB pressure on more than 50% of their dropbacks through Week 2, per @PFF:
New York Jets (52%)
Miami Dolphins (55%)
Post by: MBGreen on September 22, 2021, 08:09:44 AM
Quote
Michael Nania
@Michael_Nania
·
1h
Greg Van Roten vs. Patriots: 7 pressures allowed
2 more than any other guard in the NFL
The #Jets pass protection was good outside of him. The other 4 linemen combined for a 64.2 PFF pass-blocking grade, which would have ranked 15th out of 32 OLs in Week 2
GVR has to go...sooner rather than later. Before he gets Zach killed.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 22, 2021, 08:15:17 AM
GVR has to go...sooner rather than later. Before he gets Zach killed.
Aside from replacing him, the only way to help the interior is to get a back that can actually pass protect. Ty Johnson cannot.
Hopefully Perine is back soon.
Post by: MBGreen on September 22, 2021, 08:16:16 AM
Aside from replacing him, the only way to help the interior is to get a back that can actually pass protect. Ty Johnson cannot.
Hopefully Perine is back soon.
I never thought Ty Johnson was anything special....i'd have no issue cutting him outright.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 22, 2021, 08:35:17 AM
I never thought Ty Johnson was anything special....i'd have no issue cutting him outright.
He wowed fans last season by being able to rack up a larger YPC than Frank Gore's rotting corpse.
Post by: MBGreen on September 22, 2021, 08:39:18 AM
He wowed fans last season by being able to rack up a larger YPC than Frank Gore's rotting corpse.
Fans were wowed last season? we were 2-14.
EDIT: yes, i'm aware of the sarcasm.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 22, 2021, 10:51:59 AM
I never thought Ty Johnson was anything special....i'd have no issue cutting him outright.He might be our best actual rusher of the football.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 22, 2021, 11:07:29 AM
He might be our best actual rusher of the football.
Michael Carter and Tevin Coleman are both better
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 22, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Post by: ons on September 22, 2021, 08:56:52 PM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1440801690077184001?s=21
I think with experience Wilson would see/sense the pressure and get to the wide open check-down.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 22, 2021, 10:51:47 PM
I think with experience Wilson would see/sense the pressure and get to the wide open check-down.That was at the end of the game. No problem trying to take shots then.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2021, 06:04:56 AM
* Communication better in Wk 2.
* "Very, very good" improvement from AVT in run game
* Expects "more consistency" from Fant as he gets re-acclimated at LT
* Says GVR is "doing well." Calls him more crafty than physical.
* 3rdD focus on Von Miller
Cimini
Post by: reuben on September 24, 2021, 06:55:09 AM
* Says GVR is "doing well." Calls him more crafty than physical.
"She's got a great personality."
Post by: Johnny English on September 24, 2021, 11:21:08 AM
"She's got a great personality."
"She's pretty in her own way."
Post by: bojanglesman on September 24, 2021, 11:23:50 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 24, 2021, 10:14:04 PM
"She's got a great personality."
"She's pretty in her own way."
"She has great funbags but uses her teeth."
these are all backhanded compliments about women but you can argue that when females are described this way, the statements truly hold merit. some females just aren't knockouts but actually are pretty in their own way, and some have amazing personalities that make them seem more beautiful than they initially appear
there is no merit behind trying to be nice to GVR and saying he is crafty. homie fvcking sucks
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2021, 07:57:15 AM
these are all backhanded compliments about women but you can argue that when females are described this way, the statements truly hold merit. some females just aren't knockouts but actually are pretty in their own way, and some have amazing personalities that make them seem more beautiful than they initially appearHe gets 1 point for being a Jets fan.
there is no merit behind trying to be nice to GVR and saying he is crafty. homie fvcking sucks
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 10:21:46 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 27, 2021, 11:02:17 AM
Quote
Michael Nania
@Michael_Nania
·
20m
Greg Van Roten has allowed 15 pressures this season
2nd-most in the NFL among right guards
And just 1 fewer than Fant, Moses, and McGovern combined
GVR should probably keep his piehole shut for the rest of the season.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 11:06:06 AM
Quote
Zach Wilson was under pressure on 16 of his drop backs against the #Broncos.
He was 2 of 11 for 35 yards with an INT on those plays.
Hughes
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 27, 2021, 11:10:11 AM
GVR should probably keep his piehole shut for the rest of the season.
Yes.
Post by: Johnny English on September 27, 2021, 11:13:13 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2021, 11:20:03 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 01:57:02 PM
Lmao
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2021, 03:35:32 PM
https://twitter.com/jetsmakemesad/status/1442552722113409026?s=21That's why it's so hard for PFF and anyone else to properly grade players. I think it's more likely that's an AVT screwup than a McGovern screwup. Much easier to think the rookie doesn't know his assignments yet than the veteran.
Lmao
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 03:41:57 PM
That's why it's so hard for PFF and anyone else to properly grade players. I think it's more likely that's an AVT screwup than a McGovern screwup. Much easier to think the rookie doesn't know his assignments yet than the veteran.
If it’s a right slide, then likely AVT screwed up but McGovern is responsible for an unoccupied A gap. He should stay home on the NT and then slide.
It just looks like alll-around shitty OL play.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 27, 2021, 04:20:22 PM
PFF NY Jets
George Fant posted a 82.7 pass blocking grade against the #Broncos, 6th best among all OTs this week Fant is now 1/7 OTs to post 80+ pass blocking grades in two or more games this season
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 04:31:19 PM
Becton might be out of a job
PFF NY Jets
George Fant posted a 82.7 pass blocking grade against the #Broncos, 6th best among all OTs this week Fant is now 1/7 OTs to post 80+ pass blocking grades in two or more games this season
Fant is a good pass protector. He stinks as a run blocker.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2021, 04:38:13 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 27, 2021, 04:38:59 PM
That's why I didn't think it was so crazy for Fant to beat out Moses. Fant isn't bad, and his athleticism theoretically fits well in this scheme.
Joe Douglas lucked into George Fant
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 27, 2021, 04:42:03 PM
Joe Douglas lucked into George FantLike, if you want to say Douglas lucked into Becton, I can at least buy that a little bit. Becton needed to fall in his lap (and even then he could have taken another OL). You can't luck into a free agent.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 27, 2021, 05:36:09 PM
Fant is a good pass protector. He stinks as a run blocker.
Fortunately Lafleur doesn't know how to run the ball, so we're in good hands.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 27, 2021, 05:37:27 PM
That's why I didn't think it was so crazy for Fant to beat out Moses. Fant isn't bad, and his athleticism theoretically fits well in this scheme.
The sample size is small, I know.
But the impression I got was Fant is a better LT than RT.
Either that or Fant + Moses is simply better than Becton + Fant
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 07:12:55 PM
Like, if you want to say Douglas lucked into Becton, I can at least buy that a little bit. Becton needed to fall in his lap (and even then he could have taken another OL). You can't luck into a free agent.
*Joe Douglas lucked into Becton and Tristan Wirfs and selected Becton
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 08:35:37 PM
Fant: 4 / 0
AVT: 12 / 1
McGovern: 3 / 0
GVR: 15 / 2
Moses: 8 / 1
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 27, 2021, 08:39:30 PM
GVR: 0.12 pressures/snap - 2nd worst OG rate in NFL
Elflein is 4th worst
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 27, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Joe Douglas lucked into George Fant
I see what you did there
I haven't knocked him getting Fant. Just like I didn't knock him getting Elflein last year (though I did have a problem not bringing him back).
Douglas did luck into Moses. That's great for the Jets since, without him, where would we be? But it doesn't change that he lucked into him.
Douglas also sent Beachum packing, which I loudly disagreed with. And he drafted AVT this year, and no one else, which is my biggest complaint.
Sarcasm is fine, but I'll continue to die on this hill until the team proves otherwise. They did a complete disservice to Wilson, to LaFleur, to the offense, and to the team as a whole, by not drafting more OL this year. I can deal with not being able to pay FAs enough to entice them, but the draft is entirely within Douglas' control.
Post by: insanity on September 27, 2021, 08:46:46 PM
Fant is a good pass protector. He stinks as a run blocker.Can we madden a becton to rt and Moses to rg?
If not any update on cam clarke
Post by: Badger on September 27, 2021, 11:05:43 PM
If not any update on cam clarke
RIP
Post by: Libero_2 on September 28, 2021, 04:34:05 PM
Pressures / Sacks
Fant: 4 / 0
AVT: 12 / 1
McGovern: 3 / 0
GVR: 15 / 2
Moses: 8 / 1
So then who is responsible for the 15 sacks we’ve given up in only 4 are on the OL?
Post by: MBGreen on September 28, 2021, 04:38:23 PM
Quote
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
28m
Free agent guard Forrest Lamp, who started all 16 games for the #Chargers last season, has made a (smart) decision and is now fully vaccinated, source said. After a minor calf strain in camp, he is now healthy and ready to contribute for OL-needy teams.
Get on the phone, JD.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 28, 2021, 04:39:01 PM
So then who is responsible for the 15 sacks we’ve given up in only 4 are on the OL?
Lafleur
Post by: dcm1602 on September 28, 2021, 04:41:09 PM
Get on the phone, JD.
He plays almost all the positions on the OL.
I know this is near and dear to our teams leadership
Post by: MBGreen on September 28, 2021, 04:43:38 PM
He plays almost all the positions on the OL.
I know this is near and dear to our teams leadership
Forrest Lamp is good.
At this point, I'd replace GVR with Lena Dunham. #threadcrossover
Post by: Libero_2 on September 28, 2021, 04:53:24 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 28, 2021, 05:02:45 PM
So then who is responsible for the 15 sacks we’ve given up in only 4 are on the OL?
Mims.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 28, 2021, 11:31:00 PM
Cue the I love Lamp memes, but we need all the help we can get. I fail to see a reason why we shouldn’t at least bring him in for a tryout. Even if we don’t think he can start he has to be an upgrade over the depth in the event anything happens to AVT or heaven forbid GVR
Can't afford him. Gotta cut Crowder first
Post by: Libero_2 on September 29, 2021, 05:39:27 AM
Can't afford him. Gotta cut Crowder first
Considering Crowders current contribution level, I mean it might work out for us
Post by: delavan on September 29, 2021, 11:38:25 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 04, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Alijah Vera-Tucker: 82.6
Morgan Moses: 76.1
George Fant: 72.5
Connor McGovern: 58.4
Greg Van Roten: 45.8
Post by: reuben on October 04, 2021, 11:00:17 AM
PFF pass-blocking grades for the offensive lineman:
Alijah Vera-Tucker: 82.6
Morgan Moses: 76.1
George Fant: 72.5
Connor McGovern: 58.4
Greg Van Roten: 45.8
Greg Van Roten is Farva.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 04, 2021, 11:09:20 AM
Post by: MBGreen on October 04, 2021, 11:13:51 AM
Greg Van Roten is Farva.
Get that man a litre of cola
Post by: reuben on October 04, 2021, 11:16:14 AM
Wonder if there's a chance that Moses keeps the RT job when Becton comes back.
I just want one game where it's Fant-AVT-McGovern-Moses-Becton. I bet it would be incredible.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 04, 2021, 11:56:05 AM
That's the weak link on our offensive line right now.
Our tackles are playing solid football and AVT keeps getting better.
Post by: reuben on October 04, 2021, 04:10:20 PM
This is a major if, but IF the line starts to gel, I'd consider kicking Becton inside to right guard when he comes back.
That's the weak link on our offensive line right now.
Our tackles are playing solid football and AVT keeps getting better.
I'm all for it. We get the most out of Fant when he's playing left tackle. I know everybody wants to be the left tackle but we'd absolutely maul people with Moses and Becton next to each other. Sending Fant back to the bench while GVR starts is a waste of resources.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 04, 2021, 05:30:42 PM
I'm all for it. We get the most out of Fant when he's playing left tackle. I know everybody wants to be the left tackle but we'd absolutely maul people with Moses and Becton next to each other. Sending Fant back to the bench while GVR starts is a waste of resources.Move AVT to RG and tell Fant and Becton to play next to each other as co-left tackles.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 04, 2021, 05:33:16 PM
Get it done, LaFleur.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 11, 2021, 11:18:36 AM
George Fant - 83.0
Alijah Vera-Tucker - 92.4
Connor McGovern - 80.2
Greg Van Roten - 74.8
Morgan Moses - 60.4
Imagine GVR playing good and still losing
Post by: bojanglesman on October 13, 2021, 08:02:54 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 13, 2021, 10:42:16 AM
https://twitter.com/BigDuke50/status/1447984673867632640?t=P-0Vnl2yv6HkZ0FrSdI6LQ&s=19
The Jets would be crazy to not try ONE of their 3 OTs at guard when Becton is back. That said, we need Becton to be a stud LT for us. He is the one that absolutely should not be shifted inside unless his play warrants it.
Annoyingly, I think Moses is the better RT of he and Fant, but also the guy most likely to be able to play RG.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 13, 2021, 10:58:51 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 13, 2021, 12:53:37 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 26, 2021, 12:48:19 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 26, 2021, 12:57:52 PM
Lol if Nania is criticizing him he must be Spencer Long bad
Post by: mj2sexay on October 26, 2021, 01:02:03 PM
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1453007484805914631?s=21
Lol if Nania is criticizing him he must be Spencer Long bad
Scrolled down to see a Gary V tweet.
I freaking despise that idiot.
Post by: Johnny English on October 26, 2021, 01:52:26 PM
https://twitter.com/benfennell_nfl/status/1453023873964908551?s=21
Jesus. Both tackles are spectating at that point. Can't decide whether to admire the design of the rush or despair that it happened to us.
Post by: Johnny English on October 26, 2021, 01:53:32 PM
Scrolled down to see a Gary V tweet.
I freaking despise that idiot.
I like him. He's a bit of an idiot, but he's a relentlessly positive and optimistic one. Harmless.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 26, 2021, 02:03:32 PM
I like him. He's a bit of an idiot, but he's a relentlessly positive and optimistic one. Harmless.
He's the prototype of someone who was born on third base and thinks they hit a triple.
Post by: Johnny English on October 26, 2021, 02:09:59 PM
He's the prototype of someone who was born on third base and thinks they hit a triple.
Maybe. But his messaging in a professional context is much more in line with the things I want to hear - he is consistently talking about things like the value of older employees and the importance of placing your own mental well being above the success of your corporation. Just because he's doing so from a position of privilege doesn't make that messaging any less correct or welcome. I have a lot more time for people like Vaynerchuk than, say, Tony Robbins.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 26, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
Maybe. But his messaging in a professional context is much more in line with the things I want to hear - he is consistently talking about things like the value of older employees and the importance of placing your own mental well being above the success of your corporation.
Fair enough. I find the whole shtick to be easy when you consider he was handed a remarkably successful business. He's not the self-made entrepreneur he portrays himself to be. Having said that, I agree that those tenets you espouse are certainly worthwhile.
Tony Robbins.
freak that guy and his banana hands.
Post by: delavan on October 26, 2021, 08:26:28 PM
Fair enough. I find the whole shtick to be easy when you consider he was handed a remarkably successful business. He's not the self-made entrepreneur he portrays himself to be. Having said that, I agree that those tenets you espouse are certainly worthwhile.
freak that guy and his banana hands.
Quasi socialist resentment towards Gary V with a sidecar of homoerotic banana hands (big dick) tension? : )
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2021, 10:35:22 AM
Post by: insanity on November 01, 2021, 10:38:04 AM
Currently dead last in Run Block Win Rate but 10th in Pass Block Win RateI can live with that, for now.
Post by: mj2sexay on November 01, 2021, 10:41:25 AM
Quasi socialist resentment towards Gary V with a sidecar of homoerotic banana hands (big dick) tension? : )
Resentment towards Gary V as stated in terms of inheriting a thriving business that's almost impossible to freak up (not quite on the level of Dolan inheriting cablevision and the Knicks, but similar) but acting self-made, while admittedly still despising that stupid freaking gif from when the Jets took Sanchez even if he was ultimately right.
The banana hands thing is what Tony Robbins was called in the criminally underrated Shallow Hal!
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2021, 11:34:12 AM
while admittedly still despising that stupid freaking gif from when the Jets took Sanchez even if he was ultimately right.
When Sanchez looked good, the Vaynerchuks backtracked on it by claiming they mistakenly thought the Jets gave up more than they did to trade up. But I'm pretty certain their reaction was based on the standard "USC QB bad" smoothbrained take, so I don't give them any credit for being accidentally & eventually correct.
Post by: insanity on November 01, 2021, 01:52:15 PM
I'm pretty surethey just did it because it would get them on tv
When Sanchez looked good, the Vaynerchuks backtracked on it by claiming they mistakenly thought the Jets gave up more than they did to trade up. But I'm pretty certain their reaction was based on the standard "USC QB bad" smoothbrained take, so I don't give them any credit for being accidentally & eventually correct.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 14, 2021, 10:05:30 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 15, 2021, 07:44:36 AM
We finally have an average OL for the first time in years. No, I’m not satisfied with this.
Run D may be a slight problem
Post by: Heismanberg on December 15, 2021, 08:28:04 AM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1470825383486541824?s=21
We finally have an average OL for the first time in years. No, I’m not satisfied with this.
Run D may be a slight problem
Linebacker is a significant need for us
Post by: MBGreen on December 15, 2021, 08:47:26 AM
Linebacker is a significant need for us
Nakobe Dean time
Post by: Badger on December 15, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1470825383486541824?s=21Run D chart is weird. Our positions on the two axes appear to be contradictory.
We finally have an average OL for the first time in years. No, I’m not satisfied with this.
Run D may be a slight problem
Post by: Johnny English on December 15, 2021, 12:49:44 PM
Run D chart is weird. Our positions on the two axes appear to be contradictory.
Only thing I can think is that Win Rate refers to how often defenders shed their block and PFF rating is overall effectiveness, so saying that our guys are good at getting off their blocks but excrement at actually bringing the man down, which in turn could be a function of lack of speed and poor technique.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 15, 2021, 12:55:58 PM
Run D chart is weird. Our positions on the two axes appear to be contradictory.
Only thing I can think of that would make sense if that we let up an egregious amount of big run plays. Make enough stops to have a competent RSWR, but let up big run yardage plays and TDs which kill our PFF grade.
Other possible explanation is high individual player performance but poor overall unit performance.
Foley Fats and Sheldon Rankins both rank top 10 in RSWR for DTs. I guess that doesn’t really matter if everyone else on the field sucks. Or if they run outside.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 15, 2021, 12:57:05 PM
The definition:
In run stop win rate, a defender can earn a win by doing any of the following: beating his blocker so he's in better position to stop the runner; disrupting the pocket or running lane by pushing his blocker backwards; containing the runner such that he must adjust his running lane; or recording a tackle within three yards of the line of scrimmage. If a defender earns a run stop win, his blocker earns a loss, and vice versa.
If anyone else has a guess, step in.
Post by: reuben on December 15, 2021, 01:07:45 PM
If anyone else has a guess, step in.
I think you've got it: we've got the beef up front to disrupt the blocking but nobody behind them to bring down the ball carrier.
I still really don't understand how we have a historically bad run defense with JFM, Q, and Foley on the line.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 15, 2021, 01:22:16 PM
I think you've got it: we've got the beef up front to disrupt the blocking but nobody behind them to bring down the ball carrier.Because our linebackers are hot garbage, and our defensive line is taught to focus on rushing the passer and getting up field over anything else.
I still really don't understand how we have a historically bad run defense with JFM, Q, and Foley on the line.
Post by: Badger on December 15, 2021, 02:16:14 PM
I think you've got it: we've got the beef up front to disrupt the blocking but nobody behind them to bring down the ball carrier.
That makes sense.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 15, 2021, 05:54:05 PM
I think you've got it: we've got the beef up front to disrupt the blocking but nobody behind them to bring down the ball carrier.
I still really don't understand how we have a historically bad run defense with JFM, Q, and Foley on the line.
JFM should be an interior player most of the time. We just don’t have the bodies to do that right now.
The constant rotation is frustrating. Nathan Shepherd does not need to play meaningful snaps. I’m fine with Q, Rankins, and Foley rotating. But get Shepherd the freak off the field.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 15, 2021, 06:59:51 PM
JFM should be an interior player most of the time. We just don’t have the bodies to do that right now.At this point I'd rather see Jonathan Marshall get some snaps since we are out of it anyway.
The constant rotation is frustrating. Nathan Shepherd does not need to play meaningful snaps. I’m fine with Q, Rankins, and Foley rotating. But get Shepherd the freak off the field.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 16, 2021, 12:54:23 PM
Because our linebackers are hot garbage, and our defensive line is taught to focus on rushing the passer and getting up field over anything else.
Mosley seems to be the only person who can tackle once anyone gets 2 yards past LOS.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2022, 02:08:47 PM
Under 30 scheme fits with starting experience
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2022, 02:11:06 PM
Hopefully Fant's injury isn't significant. That could change the blueprint a bit.
Fant
AVT
McGovern
LDT
Becton
That is a good enough line to win in the NFL. We've been mauling good defenses on the ground without Becton.
We still need depth all across the line, but Feeney is valuable because he plays guard and center.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2022, 02:31:55 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on January 03, 2022, 08:06:29 PM
Not an ACL for Fant. Saleh said it's a reinjury from a previous knee issue and we'll know more Wednesday. So I assume it won't be a huge deal, but he said he'll know more Wednesday.
I hope "not serious" means day to day. Not serious in the NFL could mean pretty much anything less than a tear. I guess it's good for next year.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2022, 06:15:49 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2022, 06:18:13 PM
Does anyone still have issues with how Joe Douglas has repaired the OL?Never did
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2022, 06:41:04 PM
- Spend two 1st-round picks on OL, including trading up for one
- Signing George Fant to Connor McGovern to multi-year contracts
- Signing Morgan Moses for a bargain deal as insurance at OT, only to see him starting all season
- Signing/trading for Greg Van Roten, Dan Feeney, Josh Andrews, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif to try to get one startable OL out of the group
- Spending a 4th-round pick on Cameron Clark
We have 2 long-term pieces on the OL under contract for a bit (assuming Becton health). Fant and McGovern are reasonable starters under contract.
We've gone from an OL that had no hope even when fully healthy to an OL that is pushing people around in the running game despite missing multiple starters.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 05, 2022, 06:52:37 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 05, 2022, 07:02:42 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 05, 2022, 07:34:33 PM
Does anyone still have issues with how Joe Douglas has repaired the OL?
I don't think anyone has any issues with the strategy, after the years of misery OL has to be among this teams biggest priorities.
The results are still up in the air though. Need to see some of these major moves pan out, and what happens this offseason when it comes to long term moves
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2022, 07:37:25 PM
I don't think anyone has any issues with the strategy, after the years of misery OL has to be among this teams biggest priorities.
The results are still up in the air though. Need to see some of these major moves pan out, and what happens this offseason when it comes to long term moves
It’s Week 18. The results are not up in the air. This OL played well down the stretch and the depth pieces that JD was criticized for signing played a big part in the improved run game.
Post by: Johnny English on January 05, 2022, 09:24:35 PM
Greg Van Roten was starting in the beginning of the season, so yes.
Just think how good we'll be when Cam Clark is available.
Post by: Jumbo on January 05, 2022, 09:26:17 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2022, 10:07:07 PM
Does anyone still have issues with how Joe Douglas has repaired the OL?
Random thoughts:
I thought we were toast after Becton went down
The AVT pick looks like absolute gold
Fant and McGovern took massive steps forward from their performances last year
Michael Carter, Mike LaFleur, and Zach Wilson > Dowell, Gase, Sam, and Gore
Douglas deserves a ton of credit for the results. I’m actually very pleased, and they looked pretty bad the first couple games of the season. Make sure you post those year end OL PFF grades on your fridge
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2022, 10:10:48 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2022, 10:12:40 PM
All three of our top back averaged at least 4 YPC
Trade Ty Johnson for an 8th and draft someone that can catch a pass or run for 5 yards
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2022, 10:13:02 PM
Trade Ty Johnson for an 8th and draft someone that can catch a pass or run for 5 yards
This is the way
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2022, 10:17:25 PM
Alvin Kamara and Saquon Barkley are the only RBs with more drops (6).
This obviously doesn’t belong in the OL thread but I am not going to pass on the chance to excrement on Ty Johnson.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2022, 10:53:01 PM
But basically from Week 4 on, the offense was pretty competent, and it was competent with 4 different quarterbacks, and a rotating cast of wide receivers, no tight ends, and one of the worst RB groups on paper in the NFL. For that to happen, you need good OL play, and you need good coaching.
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2022, 11:09:05 PM
Does anyone still have issues with how Joe Douglas has repaired the OL?Assuming it's still not a finished product, I have no specific issue.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2022, 08:19:25 AM
Brandon Scherff - OG
Connor Williams - OG
Laken Tomlinson - OG
Austin Corbett - OG
OT and C - not really a need but you can never have too many Gords
Orlando Brown
Terron Armstead
Ryan Jensen
Who else is a FA?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2022, 08:20:20 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2022, 08:22:16 AM
Washington GM Martin Mayhew on Brandon Scherff: "I think our fans should know we've made every effort to get something done." Added that they offered to make him the highest-paid guard in NFL last year.
I'd love to add Scherff but not for that much money
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2022, 08:25:13 AM
Who else is a FA?
James Daniels, Ben Jones, and Brian Allen
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2022, 08:26:59 AM
I'd love to add Scherff but not for that much money
Scherff has gone on record that he wants to finish his career in WSH.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2022, 08:30:45 AM
Scherff has gone on record that he wants to finish his career in WSH.
Then he prob would/should have signed that deal to make him the highest paid guard and stay in Washington
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2022, 08:33:30 AM
Scherff has gone on record that he wants to finish his career in WSH.
Good for him.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2022, 08:41:51 AM
Then he prob would/should have signed that deal to make him the highest paid guard and stay in Washington
I'm assuming his agent suggested that they stay patient. Maybe they'll sweeten the pot with incentives. I dunno.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2022, 09:04:38 AM
I'm assuming his agent suggested that they stay patient. Maybe they'll sweeten the pot with incentives. I dunno.
You are correct that he did say that, but seems like both sides are posturing. I could see either side wanting to move on and just saying otherwise.
WAS could be over the whole franchise tagging/contract demands rodeo, and who knows what Scherff is looking for if he wouldn’t sign that monster contract.
It makes too much sense for him to go back, who knows
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2022, 10:40:07 AM
Scherff has gone on record that he wants to finish his career in WSH.90% of players/GMs say stuff like this. Basically, everyone other than Marcus Maye.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2022, 10:47:37 AM
90% of players/GMs say stuff like this. Basically, everyone other than Marcus Maye.
that's why only 10% of them leave
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2022, 01:10:26 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2022, 01:11:38 PM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1481314100697341957/photo/1
I'm very surprised at the Colts being that low.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2022, 01:18:34 PM
I'm very surprised at the Colts being that low.
watch their final game against the Jaguars and you will not be as surprised
they got bullied
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2022, 01:22:04 PM
watch their final game against the Jaguars and you will not be as surprised
they got bullied
I honestly can't think of something I want to do less than watch a replay of Indy v Jacksonville.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2022, 01:24:15 PM
I honestly can't think of something I want to do less than watch a replay of Indy v Jacksonville.
You'd have to admit that interior linemen are not valuable
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2022, 01:27:19 PM
You'd have to admit that interior linemen are not valuable
Will not happen
Post by: Johnny English on January 14, 2022, 01:43:37 PM
Post by: reuben on January 14, 2022, 02:04:33 PM
https://twitter.com/ZachWilson/status/1482021075600949251
Attaboy Zach. A step up from personalized BBQ spatulas.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 14, 2022, 02:06:00 PM
Attaboy Zach. A step up from personalized BBQ spatulas.JetBlue Mint making sure to get that promotion from this.
Post by: reuben on January 14, 2022, 02:06:36 PM
Quote
Vivek
@vcdevaraj
GVR’s is just a one way ticket.
lol
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 14, 2022, 02:53:59 PM
https://twitter.com/ZachWilson/status/1482021075600949251
He can fly GVR to the sun.
Post by: Johnny English on January 31, 2022, 08:29:40 PM
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings
Post by: reuben on January 31, 2022, 08:50:21 PM
This is a much better ranking than I would have expected.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings
Quote
LT George Fant | 71.1
LG Alijah Vera-Tucker | 67.2
C Connor McGovern | 75.8
RG Greg Van Roten | 67.5
RT Morgan Moses | 70.9
So they're listing Van Roten as a starter? Or are they just putting up the players that had the most snaps at each position? If so why bother tracking an offensive line's development if you're not going to evaluate it as a cohesive unit?
freak PFF.
Post by: Laxin on January 31, 2022, 10:05:58 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 01, 2022, 01:45:23 AM
So they're listing Van Roten as a starter? Or are they just putting up the players that had the most snaps at each position? If so why bother tracking an offensive line's development if you're not going to evaluate it as a cohesive unit?GVR started 10 games last year. He was a starting guard for the majority of the season.
freak PFF.
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 01:51:10 PM
@RichCimini
·
1m
Some news from the Senior Bowl: Robert Saleh says left tackle will be a competition between Mekhi Becton and George Fant. Becton won’t be handed the job back; will have to earn it. #jets
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2022, 01:53:41 PM
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
1m
Some news from the Senior Bowl: Robert Saleh says left tackle will be a competition between Mekhi Becton and George Fant. Becton won’t be handed the job back; will have to earn it. #jets
good
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 01, 2022, 01:55:11 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 02:00:30 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 02:02:41 PM
Quote
Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
·
8m
Robert Saleh, for first time, was critical of Mekhi Becton.
Said the left tackle spot is not his. It’s wide open & sounded like Fant has inside track. Praised Fant heavily for ‘21 season
Saleh said drafting left tackle, having Becton compete at right, on table.
Yikes #Jets
hellooooo Evan Neal/Ewok at 4
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2022, 02:03:06 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 01, 2022, 02:11:21 PM
i'm trying to read between the lines here. Does Becton have motivation concerns? We kept being told that his injury was taking too long to heal because he's a larger human.
The perception is that he does. He's going to be given an opportunity to prove his doubters wrong.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2022, 02:12:38 PM
hellooooo Evan Neal/Ewok at 4
or draft a dude like Bernhard Raimann in the second
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 02:14:31 PM
The perception is that he does. He's going to be given an opportunity to prove his doubters wrong.
the fact that this is even being floated around bothers the excrement out of me.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2022, 02:18:54 PM
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2022, 02:20:11 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 01, 2022, 02:20:19 PM
Fant played 889 snaps and only allowed 1 sack. You can't just hand the job back to Becton.
Exactly. I don't see why this should be concerning, though I'm sure the media/certain segments of the fanbase will run hog wild with it...
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2022, 02:21:16 PM
Exactly. I don't see why this should be concerning, though I'm sure the media/certain segments of the fanbase will run hog wild with it...
Hughes is trying to make it into a controversy.
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 02:21:16 PM
Fant played 889 snaps and only allowed 1 sack. You can't just hand the job back to Becton.
No, you can't. And that's a problem for a guy we took 11th overall only 2 years ago.
He better change his freaking attitude and get with the program this offseason.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2022, 02:21:59 PM
No, you can't. And that's a problem for a guy we took 11th overall only 2 years ago.
Or we can just play him at right tackle...
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 01, 2022, 02:22:02 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2022, 02:22:18 PM
Whoever doesn't win the LT job transitions to RT. If we take Neal or Ickey at 4, they'll play RG before potentially replacing one of Fant/Becton down the road.
100%
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 02:22:33 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2022, 02:23:15 PM
I don't give a excrement what Connor Hughes says about it. I care that Saleh had to bring this up because it clearly concerns him.
Connor Hughes got to you
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 01, 2022, 02:23:51 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2022, 02:24:32 PM
Operation Horsefly underway
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 01, 2022, 02:25:09 PM
That said, I see a lot of fans thinking this is odd. Seems like common sense to me. Fant played too well to lose his job unless Becton takes it from him. Hopefully, Becton earns a spot next year, whether it's on the left or right.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 01, 2022, 02:25:14 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 01, 2022, 02:27:21 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 02:28:13 PM
Connor Hughes has the upper hand
Operation Horsefly underway
bzzzz bzz?
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 02:29:59 PM
Becton missed virtually the entire season while his replacement performed exceptionally in his place. Of course he isn't going to be guaranteed his job back.
But does Becton want to play football....
I have no problem with the competition, Fant earned the right to compete for it.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 01, 2022, 02:34:11 PM
Neal at LG
Becton at inner LT
Fant at outer LT
Left side Wideside
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 02:35:21 PM
Maybe we could have 2 LTs on the field together. Just run everything that way. Run it right once in a while to keep them honest.
Or Becton's fatso father can find someone other than his son to accompany him to the local Golden Corral.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 01, 2022, 02:37:49 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 01, 2022, 02:38:42 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 01, 2022, 02:40:48 PM
If Becton makes the Pro Bowl next year, we should feed him Tony Pauline.
Even if he doesn't...
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2022, 02:44:10 PM
If Becton makes the Pro Bowl next year, we should feed him Tony Pauline.
Bo beat me to it
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 02, 2022, 10:27:39 AM
Like clockwork...
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 02, 2022, 01:51:05 PM
Quote
Becton was a topic of conversation this weekend during Shrine Bowl practices. News was reported that Becton weighed over 370 pounds in December as he continued to recover from a knee injury he sustained during the first game of the NFL season.
Two sources — one in Vegas at Shrine practice and another here today in Mobile — told me Becton was actually tipping the scales at over 400 pounds by the end of the season.
I would love to dismiss this because Pauline but it’s not too far fetched
I don’t have an issue with anything Saleh said, but the timing and the fact that it was said to the media instead of kept behind closed doors tells me it’s a motivational tactic.
I’m glad Saleh is doing what he can, but the fact that they think Becton needs to be motivated isn’t something to be ignored. The discourse coming from the Jets about Becton all year has been very strange. Hopefully he’s doing everything he needs to do to stay in shape and get healthy.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 02, 2022, 04:59:07 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on February 02, 2022, 05:28:37 PM
I'd have a huge problem with Saleh if he thought that leaking excrement to the press to motivate a player was a good motivational tactic.
It's hard to say, some guys need a kick in the derriere and some get kicked and still don't get it so you try a different tact. I don't disagree using the press intentionally for that purpose is a questionable tactic. That said it definitely has been done before. I just can't imagine the % of times it's worked being all that high.
That said, I don't have any issue with anything Saleh said, just from an information giving standpoint. We had a guy that was highly drafted who was out last year, and the guy who replaced him was by many accounts awesome in his stead. Let those dudes compete and may the best man win. I'd assume this was his actual intention to just get this message out there, and remind everyone that for Saleh performance matters, there will be competitions no matter the financial or draft status of a guy, and may the best man win the job.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 02, 2022, 05:57:24 PM
It's hard to say, some guys need a kick in the derriere and some get kicked and still don't get it so you try a different tact. I don't disagree using the press intentionally for that purpose is a questionable tactic. That said it definitely has been done before. I just can't imagine the % of times it's worked being all that high.
That said, I don't have any issue with anything Saleh said, just from an information giving standpoint. We had a guy that was highly drafted who was out last year, and the guy who replaced him was by many accounts awesome in his stead. Let those dudes compete and may the best man win. I'd assume this was his actual intention to just get this message out there, and remind everyone that for Saleh performance matters, there will be competitions no matter the financial or draft status of a guy, and may the best man win the job.
The only time I can remember it happening is Bill Parcells calling Terry Glenn "she" and Rex publicly calling out Coples, neither of which appeared to have their desired effect
I don't have a problem with what Saleh said so long as it was something he discussed with Becton first.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 03, 2022, 01:49:40 AM
Post by: Badger on February 03, 2022, 06:56:57 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2022, 07:15:02 AM
I don't have any objection to it because there should be a competition for LT, and there's no reason it ought to be a secret. Saleh didn't say anything disrespectful or untrue.
I'm just a little irritated that our supposed franchise LT is entering year 3 and now has to compete for his position.
Saleh is absolutely doing the right thing, and Fant earned this opportunity....but it shouldn't be happening. Becton better get his excrement together.
Post by: reuben on February 15, 2022, 07:14:23 PM
Quote
JM: You led me to my next question. Offensive coordinator coach Mike LaFleur runs a very different offense from what you experienced alongside Andy Reid in Kansas City. You touched on the system being better suited to your strengths. What were your thoughts on coach LaFleur’s offense?
LDT: I won't lie to you, it's a system that takes some getting used to. I still haven't 100% mastered the system. The approach is totally different. You're not just trying to get the right angle and block the man in front of you in the running game. Instead, you're trying to get off the snap as fast as you can and always gain ground. It's really different from what we ran in Kansas City.
I knew that I was a good run blocker and that this system would suit me. I love running outside zone. Playing for the Jets took that to a whole new level. We had some success with it later in the season. We ran the ball well late into the year. I'm very optimistic for next season.
JM: I’ve really appreciated your time today, Laurent. In closing, you’re set to become a free agent. Are you hoping to be a New York Jet in 2022?
LDT: I am definitely hoping to play for the Jets in 2022. I could talk about it for a long time but for me, I really enjoyed playing in an offense that best suited my strengths as a player. That’s a big deal to me. I loved playing with those guys in the locker room. I feel I add value to the team both on and off the field. It’s a young team and I feel like I possess the experience necessary to help us. It represents the best fit for me.
Nothing really definitive, but it sounds like there's a reasonable chance he comes back. I don't know that anyone is going to break the bank for him after an eight game campaign, but we'll see.
Post by: Johnny English on February 15, 2022, 07:34:57 PM
Some tidbits from LDT's interview with The Draft Network: (https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/laurent-duvernay-tardif-free-agent-jets-charity-zach-wilson)
Nothing really definitive, but it sounds like there's a reasonable chance he comes back. I don't know that anyone is going to break the bank for him after an eight game campaign, but we'll see.
I'm 100% all in on bringing him back. Still a good player, loads of great experience, and an outstanding person. Absolutely the right kind of player for this team at this stage IMO.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 15, 2022, 07:57:12 PM
Post by: Johnny English on February 15, 2022, 08:05:26 PM
Pay him extra to double as the team doc.
We only paid him $1.5M last year. Doubt he'll come back for that money, but let's pay him vet min to play football and $3M a year via Atlantic Health to be a medical consultant.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 22, 2022, 12:56:34 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 22, 2022, 12:58:51 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on February 23, 2022, 05:52:51 PM
Would we be happy giving a dude who hasn't played a full season since 2016 a contract presumably north of 60 million
Post by: Libero_2 on February 23, 2022, 06:22:37 PM
Well it sounds like a virtual guarantee Brandon Scherff will be available in a few weeks
Would we be happy giving a dude who hasn't played a full season since 2016 a contract presumably north of 60 million
No I imagine we would not be
Post by: Badger on February 23, 2022, 06:46:05 PM
Well it sounds like a virtual guarantee Brandon Scherff will be available in a few weeks
Would we be happy giving a dude who hasn't played a full season since 2016 a contract presumably north of 60 million
No I imagine we would not beAlso he's already 30.
Bring back LDT and draft a guy.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 23, 2022, 09:41:44 PM
Well it sounds like a virtual guarantee Brandon Scherff will be available in a few weeksWho else are we paying?
Would we be happy giving a dude who hasn't played a full season since 2016 a contract presumably north of 60 million
Post by: Libero_2 on February 23, 2022, 10:12:36 PM
Who else are we paying?
Hopefully someone that can stay on the field. Maybe Laken Tomlinson from SF, Connor Williams from Dallas, Daniels from Chicago, LDT brought back. All of which will be cheaper than Scherff and most have at least as much of a chance of playing 17 games than Scherff based on recent history
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 23, 2022, 10:34:14 PM
Hopefully someone that can stay on the field. Maybe Laken Tomlinson from SF, Connor Williams from Dallas, Daniels from Chicago, LDT brought back. All of which will be cheaper than Scherff and most have at least as much of a chance of playing 17 games than Scherff based on recent historyAll are cheaper because they are worse. And Scherff would likely be a 2-year commitment anyway.
There is risk involved but on a team with so few impact players, taking a swing at one in a position of need could make sense. I think I prefer Daniels but Scherff would be exciting and make sense.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 23, 2022, 11:00:13 PM
All are cheaper because they are worse. And Scherff would likely be a 2-year commitment anyway.
There is risk involved but on a team with so few impact players, taking a swing at one in a position of need could make sense. I think I prefer Daniels but Scherff would be exciting and make sense.
Scherff is a free agent, and a premier one, he's also 30.
No way is his best and most attractive offer going to be a 2 year commitment. Especially after having to battle over drama with the tag the last two years
A 4 year deal where you can get out taking some damage after 3 is far more likely
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 24, 2022, 02:50:48 AM
Scherff is a free agent, and a premier one, he's also 30.I mean 2 years where you can't possibly get out of it after 1. It would still be painful after 2, but not impossible anymore.
No way is his best and most attractive offer going to be a 2 year commitment. Especially after having to battle over drama with the tag the last two years
A 4 year deal where you can get out taking some damage after 3 is far more likely
PFF projected 3/$50M with $30M guaranteed.
Post by: Libero_2 on February 24, 2022, 04:20:57 AM
I mean 2 years where you can't possibly get out of it after 1. It would still be painful after 2, but not impossible anymore.
PFF projected 3/$50M with $30M guaranteed.
Which is too much money /commitment for us unless we are actually competing next year. Between his age and injury history he is more likely to either get hurt or fall off a cliff quickly because of his injury issues. He’s a hard pass for me on anything remotely reasonable as a contract. If he wants to come here on a 3 year deal for $28 million and $15 million guaranteed, then he’ll yeah sign him. But that’s just not realistic
Post by: mj2sexay on February 24, 2022, 01:37:28 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 24, 2022, 05:43:06 PM
Which is too much money /commitment for us unless we are actually competing next year. Between his age and injury history he is more likely to either get hurt or fall off a cliff quickly because of his injury issues. He’s a hard pass for me on anything remotely reasonable as a contract. If he wants to come here on a 3 year deal for $28 million and $15 million guaranteed, then he’ll yeah sign him. But that’s just not realisticWe are competing next year, or at least that needs to be the goal. This is Douglas' 3rd full offseason with the Jets. This is the NFL. You can't be rebuilding forever. We have the young quarterback on his rookie contract. We had a great draft class last year (so far). We have a bunch more high draft picks this year.
We need to start winning some damn games. If you don't want Scherff with his injury history and his contract demands, that's fine. But if you don't want Scherff because you don't think it's time to compete, I could not disagree more.
I am not saying the Jets are a playoff team next season, but that should be the goal. We need to be relevant in December. If we are waiting to become good to acquire good players, we will never actually become good and no good players will want to come. We finally have something of a young core. Now is the time to start adding talent and real impact players instead of signing stop-gaps all the time to save cap space.
Post by: Libero_2 on February 25, 2022, 04:54:51 AM
We are competing next year, or at least that needs to be the goal. This is Douglas' 3rd full offseason with the Jets. This is the NFL. You can't be rebuilding forever. We have the young quarterback on his rookie contract. We had a great draft class last year (so far). We have a bunch more high draft picks this year.
We need to start winning some damn games. If you don't want Scherff with his injury history and his contract demands, that's fine. But if you don't want Scherff because you don't think it's time to compete, I could not disagree more.
I am not saying the Jets are a playoff team next season, but that should be the goal. We need to be relevant in December. If we are waiting to become good to acquire good players, we will never actually become good and no good players will want to come. We finally have something of a young core. Now is the time to start adding talent and real impact players instead of signing stop-gaps all the time to save cap space.
My point is, when it’s time to “go all in” is when you take a shot on a guy who consistently misses multiple games. You hope like hell that he either is healthy for the first time in a long time or that his injuries are early on. When you need talented pieces to put you over the top the injury risk is worth it because the downside is you are where you are now, but the upside is they are an elite player for you when it matters. This is a spot teams like the Bills, Bengals, Chiefs and even the Chargers are in. Not sure they all need OL pieces mind you, but they are in a spot where gambling on an elite player despite injury risk is worth it.
For a team fighting to get into that conversation, we aren’t talented enough to absorb the lost time. We need a guy who can be on the field for us, even if they are lesser talented, while the roster becomes more consistent and we then go after a “missing piece” guy soon after
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 25, 2022, 07:19:02 AM
We are competing next year, or at least that needs to be the goal. This is Douglas' 3rd full offseason with the Jets. This is the NFL. You can't be rebuilding forever. We have the young quarterback on his rookie contract. We had a great draft class last year (so far). We have a bunch more high draft picks this year.
We need to start winning some damn games. If you don't want Scherff with his injury history and his contract demands, that's fine. But if you don't want Scherff because you don't think it's time to compete, I could not disagree more.
I am not saying the Jets are a playoff team next season, but that should be the goal. We need to be relevant in December. If we are waiting to become good to acquire good players, we will never actually become good and no good players will want to come. We finally have something of a young core. Now is the time to start adding talent and real impact players instead of signing stop-gaps all the time to save cap space.
This is a great post
Post by: insanity on February 25, 2022, 08:24:39 AM
My point is, when it’s time to “go all in” is when you take a shot on a guy who consistently misses multiple games. You hope like hell that he either is healthy for the first time in a long time or that his injuries are early on. When you need talented pieces to put you over the top the injury risk is worth it because the downside is you are where you are now, but the upside is they are an elite player for you when it matters. This is a spot teams like the Bills, Bengals, Chiefs and even the Chargers are in. Not sure they all need OL pieces mind you, but they are in a spot where gambling on an elite player despite injury risk is worth it.It sounds like what you're trying to communicate is that there is a detriment from a financial and a team growth perspective when you sign an expensive, old injury prone player, and in your opinion its not worth it right now.
For a team fighting to get into that conversation, we aren’t talented enough to absorb the lost time. We need a guy who can be on the field for us, even if they are lesser talented, while the roster becomes more consistent and we then go after a “missing piece” guy soon after
I'm not sure I agree or disagree, but based on the way our team is structured financially, right now is the perfect time to (over)pay for an offensive lineman as we have two players on their first year contract, and the rest are on cheap deals.
Post by: reuben on February 25, 2022, 08:30:46 AM
don't want Scherff with his injury history
Strictly this. I hope we build the best offensive line in the league but Scherff misses a third of the season regularly.
Post by: mj2sexay on February 25, 2022, 10:23:13 AM
Unless the Jets come in and wildly overpay, why on earth would the Bengals not dedicate their ample resources in that direction? And if that's the case, why would he not go there? Point being, I could see us getting Thuney'd in this situation very easily.
The good news is there are some decent fallback options, one of which I believe includes bringing back the good Dr. Duvernay-Tardif. The line did indeed pick up when he was inserted into the starting lineup. At this point we also have no choice but to believe Mekhi is going to come back and lock down right tackle, so the need really is at guard most of all, and center if one believes we're moving on from McGovern. I don't think that'll happen given the amount of holes JD needs to fix in one off-season-he won't create another and I think continuity between the center and quarterback is better than going into the unknown, not knowing.
Laken Tomlinson is also likely going to be out there, and one would assume he'd be a natural fit given the system he's played in.
I know my man Leger Douzable floated signing Jensen and kicking McGovern inside, but I really don't want to spend 9 million a year on more mediocrity.
I agree wholeheartedly with DS as I think we all do that the team has to show progress via playing "meaningful games in December" next year. They have the resources to make a significant leap.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 25, 2022, 01:17:15 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 25, 2022, 02:14:38 PM
Post by: Badger on February 25, 2022, 06:52:07 PM
Bring back LDT and draft a guy.
Run it back with LDT and draft someone to compete with him
Stop riding my coattails, H.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 28, 2022, 12:11:19 PM
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2022, 02:42:55 PM
Draft a guy but also bring back LDTLots of people are saying this.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2022, 02:48:01 PM
Draft a guy but also bring back LDT
Lots of people are saying this.
https://www.tsn.ca/canadian-offensive-lineman-laurent-duvernay-tardif-has-plenty-to-ponder-in-off-season-1.1743878
Post by: reuben on March 01, 2022, 07:30:35 PM
https://twitter.com/BoyGreen25/status/1498772476763029506?t=LhL2b64ZJ5or0nPwELKCUA (https://twitter.com/BoyGreen25/status/1498772476763029506?t=LhL2b64ZJ5or0nPwELKCUA)
Post by: dcm1602 on March 01, 2022, 08:59:55 PM
Oh and then pushing a prowler without any freaking weight loaded. What kind of hype video is this?
I'll make sure I have high expectations for Becton next year
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 01, 2022, 09:11:16 PM
Shitty pushup form that looks an awfully lot like what person who can't do a proper pushup would do, and doing an exercise for people who can't do a pull-up.
Oh and then pushing a prowler without any freaking weight loaded. What kind of hype video is this?
I'll make sure I have high expectations for Becton next year
How many offensive linemen do you think can rep out pullups?
Post by: dcm1602 on March 01, 2022, 09:19:27 PM
How many offensive linemen do you think can rep out pullups?
Took me about 2 minutes to find a video of 6'5 340 pounds Akeem Hicks doing 9 pullups (yes I realize he's a DE)
But I'd imagine that many of the younger OL can do several pullups.
The guys in their 30s and excrement I can understand otherwise, but these young guys on rookie deals should be in the best freaking shape of their lives. And I get it, to be able to do pullups at 350 pounds means you're an absolute freaking unit
Here's an article about OL doing their offseason workouts and includes pullups as a core exercise for them. It mentions Kelvin Beachum not being able to do any when he was out of shape, to doing 2-3 sets of 9-10 every other day
https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a33956444/nfl-offensive-lineman-camp/#:~:text=THE%20PULLUP%20is%20a%20gold,it%20during%20NFL%20training%20camps.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 01, 2022, 09:24:01 PM
Took me about 2 minutes to find a video of 6'5 340 pounds Akeem Hicks doing 9 pullups (yes I realize he's a DE)
But I'd imagine that many of the younger OL can do several pullups.
The guys in their 30s and excrement I can understand otherwise, but these young guys on rookie deals should be in the best freaking shape of their lives. And I get it, to be able to do pullups at 350 pounds means you're an absolute freaking unit
Cool. What other questions that I didn't ask do you have answers to?
Post by: dcm1602 on March 01, 2022, 09:26:15 PM
Cool. What other questions that I didn't ask do you have answers to?
I added something specifically about OL as you posted this
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 01, 2022, 09:35:54 PM
I added something specifically about OL as you posted this
OK, so 4?
I care as much about an OL's pullup count as I do for a WR's bench weight.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 01, 2022, 09:37:56 PM
OK, so 4?
Sorry I guess the nfl doesn't keep a database of who can do pullups.
Doesn't excuse his inability to do push-ups without sticking his derriere straight up in the air
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 01, 2022, 09:42:22 PM
Sorry I guess the nfl doesn't keep a database of who can do pullups.
Doesn't excuse his inability to do push-ups without sticking his derriere straight up in the air
Have you considered that maybe the 300+lbs dude has a large derriere?
Also what the hell is actually wrong with body rows?
Post by: delavan on March 01, 2022, 10:02:40 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-draft-dont-count-out-nc-states-overachiever-ot-ikem-ekwonu-at-no-1-overall-155648553.html
Post by: bojanglesman on March 01, 2022, 10:10:45 PM
This badass comes from good stockNC State.....gotta take him.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-draft-dont-count-out-nc-states-overachiever-ot-ikem-ekwonu-at-no-1-overall-155648553.html
Post by: reuben on March 09, 2022, 11:23:33 AM
Quote
Giants signed OL Matt Gono to a one-year deal.
Gono was cut by the Falcons in January, after missing the entire 2021 season with a neck injury. He offers the Giants some upside on the offensive line if healthy. Gono has played at both tackle and guard and should provide the Giants with some improved depth, with potential to start.
It's Gono time
EDIT: It is not Gono time. I should read things.
(https://i.imgur.com/DeKMu4o.png)
Post by: Heismanberg on March 09, 2022, 11:25:43 AM
Post by: mj2sexay on March 09, 2022, 11:36:34 AM
So James Daniels should be the OL we target early in FA, right?
Very interesting option given his versatility. You would know better than I if he's a scheme fit for what LaFleur wants to do.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 09, 2022, 12:01:07 PM
So James Daniels should be the OL we target early in FA, right?You would think he's the best mix of quality of player and youth, but it's not like that's a secret to anyone, so he might cost a lot.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 09, 2022, 12:05:50 PM
You would think he's the best mix of quality of player and youth, but it's not like that's a secret to anyone, so he might cost a lot.
We've got money to spend
Post by: Gorilla on March 09, 2022, 01:39:32 PM
So James Daniels should be the OL we target early in FA, right?
That's my hope.
Post by: MBGreen on March 09, 2022, 01:54:24 PM
@RapSheet
·
7m
The #Jets are re-signing OL Conor McDermott on a 1-year deal, source said, keeping a versatile veteran in the fold.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 09, 2022, 01:55:22 PM
Ian RapoportThere's our tight end answer.
@RapSheet
·
7m
The #Jets are re-signing OL Conor McDermott on a 1-year deal, source said, keeping a versatile veteran in the fold.
Post by: reuben on March 09, 2022, 01:59:04 PM
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
7m
The #Jets are re-signing OL Conor McDermott on a 1-year deal, source said, keeping a versatile veteran in the fold.
Ugh. Versatile, as in there are many things he does poorly.
Maybe he's the guy who brings the bagels.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 09, 2022, 02:16:16 PM
Ugh. Versatile, as in there are many things he does poorly.
Maybe he's the guy who brings the bagels.
McDermott is a better tight end than Maxx Williams
Post by: Heismanberg on March 09, 2022, 02:16:42 PM
Bring back the goon squad
Post by: MBGreen on March 09, 2022, 02:17:47 PM
Re-sign Dan Feeney
Bring back the goon squad
Cato may die
Post by: Heismanberg on March 09, 2022, 02:27:26 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 09, 2022, 02:42:29 PM
Feeney played well in spot duty
He was better at center than guard.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 09, 2022, 02:49:08 PM
Cato may die
The parachuting spiders will probably get me before I have to hear any news of that.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 09, 2022, 03:58:31 PM
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
7m
The #Jets are re-signing OL Conor McDermott on a 1-year deal, source said, keeping a versatile veteran in the fold.
This guy reminds me of Rontez Miles, I can't quite figure out why he's still here as I think he's terrible on the field. Clearly the coaching staff disagrees.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 09, 2022, 04:25:38 PM
This guy reminds me of Rontez Miles, I can't quite figure out why he's still here as I think he's terrible on the field. Clearly the coaching staff disagrees.He's a backup. He isn't supposed to be good, otherwise he'd be a starter.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 09, 2022, 06:52:27 PM
This guy reminds me of Rontez Miles, I can't quite figure out why he's still here as I think he's terrible on the field. Clearly the coaching staff disagrees.
This had me frantically Googling to ensure he was still, in fact, a free agent.
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2022, 10:19:01 AM
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
7m
The #Jets are re-signing OL Conor McDermott on a 1-year deal, source said, keeping a versatile veteran in the fold.
Connor Hughes @Connor_J_Hughes
Conor McDermott’s one-year contract with the #Jets includes a $250k signing bonus & base salary of $1.3 million.
The #Jets GTD $200k of his ’22 base. He can earn another $750k in playing time incentives.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2022, 10:20:48 AM
McDermott
Van Roten
Feeney
Edoga
I don't know why we still have Edoga or Van Roten, but we've got some alright depth for the first time in years.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2022, 11:32:54 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 16, 2022, 11:38:13 AM
Need a backup OT badly. McDermott can't be the primary backup when the starter can't stay healthy.
I won't be surprised if we draft someone like Tulsa's Tyler Smith in the second round.
He's a mauler that can play tackle and guard. He'd be able to sit behind Becton and Fant.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 16, 2022, 12:09:39 PM
Connor Hughes @Connor_J_Hughes
Conor McDermott’s one-year contract with the #Jets includes a $250k signing bonus & base salary of $1.3 million.
The #Jets GTD $200k of his ’22 base. He can earn another $750k in playing time incentives.
How much of that is tied to receiving incentives?
Post by: Johnny English on March 16, 2022, 01:14:34 PM
How much of that is tied to receiving incentives?
You know as much as I do. But for a man who had more receiving TDs last season than Denzel Mims and Kenny Golladay combined, I hope they're rewarding him appropriately.
Post by: insanity on March 21, 2022, 10:53:14 AM
Smh
Post by: Heismanberg on March 21, 2022, 10:59:11 AM
Mekhi is going off responding to eggs on Twitter right now.
Smh
how's his Instagram?
Post by: insanity on March 21, 2022, 11:36:29 AM
how's his Instagram?Not as good as your mom's onlyfans
Post by: bojanglesman on March 22, 2022, 10:02:51 AM
yay
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 22, 2022, 10:58:11 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 22, 2022, 11:03:10 AM
Didn't we do that last week? Or did we just tender him last week and this week he signed his tender?I see I post. Yeah it's old I suck.
Post by: MBGreen on March 22, 2022, 11:21:41 AM
I see I post. Yeah it's old I suck.
#BoWhispers
Post by: bojanglesman on March 24, 2022, 02:06:21 PM
(https://y.yarn.co/55d3da57-70b2-4ae1-ad70-e347b94f993a_text.gif)
Post by: dcm1602 on March 24, 2022, 05:44:58 PM
Pretty freaking egregious we couldn't make that happen here
Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2022, 06:47:01 PM
Morgan Moses signs a 3 year 15 million deal with the Ravens
Pretty freaking egregious we couldn't make that happen here
We have two starting tackles and at his age I doubt Moses wants to be a swing tackle.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 24, 2022, 07:06:46 PM
Morgan Moses signs a 3 year 15 million deal with the Ravens
Pretty freaking egregious we couldn't make that happen here
STFU
Post by: delavan on March 25, 2022, 08:15:55 AM
Morgan Moses signs a 3 year 15 million deal with the RavensRT #78 (btw, dstfu) ; )
Pretty freaking egregious we couldn't make that happen here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l25k792rPE
Post by: Johnny English on March 28, 2022, 09:45:13 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 28, 2022, 09:49:05 AM
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1508413906586329098
He put some nice spin on this one…
What a useless reporter
Post by: bojanglesman on April 04, 2022, 12:51:32 PM
If the best player on the Jets board is Ekwonu or Neal, it might make some sense. The worst case scenario is that our OL stays healthy all year and a blue chip draft pick wastes a year. That would suck, but would put us in a good spot in 2023. Best case we have a backup that is the future.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 04, 2022, 12:58:17 PM
Any chance Douglas actually drafts an OL at 4 and still keeps Becton and Fant? I know I've been saying it won't happen, but the other side is that it's pretty damn unlikely that both Fant and Becton play 17 games this year. Plus Ekwonu and Neal have played guard before, so there's that possibility if there's an injury. Fant is a free agent next year looking for a big deal and he might want more than Douglas wants to pay. Becton.....who knows.
If the best player on the Jets board is Ekwonu or Neal, it might make some sense. The worst case scenario is that our OL stays healthy all year and a blue chip draft pick wastes a year. That would suck, but would put us in a good spot in 2023. Best case we have a backup that is the future.
#4 isn’t sitting the bench. That guy is going to start. In that scenario it’s Becton v Fant for the other spot. Loser plays swing tackle.
I can see that as the best possible use of our resources.
Post by: reuben on April 04, 2022, 01:29:13 PM
The worst case scenario is that our OL stays healthy all year and a blue chip draft pick wastes a year.
That is most definitely not the worst case scenario.
The worst case scenario is Conor McDermott starting games for the New York Jets in 2022. All other scenarios are better. Also, Ickey Ekwonu can play four positions on the line, so if he sits for a whole season, that means both our tackles and both our guards stayed healthy and played well through 17+ games. That scenario is pretty close to the top for me.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 04, 2022, 01:55:13 PM
That is most definitely not the worst case scenario.I meant the worst case scenario if we took OL at 4. Why would McDermott start games if we draft OL at 4? Unless we lose 2 of them to injury I guess.
The worst case scenario is Conor McDermott starting games for the New York Jets in 2022. All other scenarios are better. Also, Ickey Ekwonu can play four positions on the line, so if he sits for a whole season, that means both our tackles and both our guards stayed healthy and played well through 17+ games. That scenario is pretty close to the top for me.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 04, 2022, 05:01:28 PM
I meant the worst case scenario if we took OL at 4. Why would McDermott start games if we draft OL at 4? Unless we lose 2 of them to injury I guess.
That’s his point. Depth is still an issue. For me everything you want can be addressed by drafting a guy who is not a 1st round pick. You don’t need that player to be #4 overall if you believe Fant and Becton are going to be your tackles for 2023 and beyond.
Post by: Laxin on April 04, 2022, 10:34:35 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 05, 2022, 05:41:24 AM
Post by: Cane on April 05, 2022, 07:15:00 AM
are there any decent swing tackle or OT/OG prospects that may be available the late 2nd or early 3rd?Sean Rhyan would be my pick. I don’t think he has a huge ceiling as a tackle, but started for three years at tackle at UCLA and has the body type, feet, and polish to play inside or out. He could definitely be a long term RT for us if he works out, or worst case that swing type.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 05, 2022, 08:22:01 AM
are there any decent swing tackle or OT/OG prospects that may be available the late 2nd or early 3rd?
I'm interested to see if Raimann falls a bit because he's an older prospect.
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 05, 2022, 08:49:27 AM
Sean Rhyan would be my pick. I don’t think he has a huge ceiling as a tackle, but started for three years at tackle at UCLA and has the body type, feet, and polish to play inside or out. He could definitely be a long term RT for us if he works out, or worst case that swing type.
I'm interested to see if Raimann falls a bit because he's an older prospect.
i think we should try to nab a guy like this early (meaning 2nd-3rd) if he's there. the value and utility of having an 'extra tackle' was very obvious last year, and we've lost the guy who held that role for us.
having said player being able to swing inside when needed would be the cherry on top and would add great depth to the line
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 06, 2022, 02:32:54 PM
FTR, if Thibodeaux is gone, I have no problem with taking Ickey at 4 and trading Becton for a top-45 pick.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 08, 2022, 09:28:28 AM
Interesting 3 year trend for us
Post by: Heismanberg on April 08, 2022, 09:39:18 AM
Post by: reuben on August 06, 2022, 11:46:36 AM
Still looking for that vet swing.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 06, 2022, 03:21:50 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 06, 2022, 03:44:22 PM
Post by: MBGreen on August 06, 2022, 05:43:45 PM
I'll be horrified to go into the season with Conor McDermott as the primary backup.
put your trust in JD, and he will deliver.
Post by: Badger on August 06, 2022, 05:56:05 PM
I'll be horrified to go into the season with Conor McDermott as the primary backup.Don't worry, we've got Chuma Edoga.
Post by: delavan on August 07, 2022, 09:47:54 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 07, 2022, 11:23:05 PM
Don't worry, we've got Chuma Edoga.
Been saying this for years and been laughed at for some odd reason
Post by: MBGreen on August 09, 2022, 07:56:06 AM
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
13m
#Jets signed OL Caleb Benenoch, OL Chris Glaser and cut OL Parker Ferguson, DE Hamilcar Rashed.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 09, 2022, 08:24:35 AM
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
13m
#Jets signed OL Caleb Benenoch, OL Chris Glaser and cut OL Parker Ferguson, DE Hamilcar Rashed.
Camp Fodder.
We need Duane Brown
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 09, 2022, 08:48:57 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
19m
GM Joe Douglas, on @WFANmornings, says Duane Brown is in “phenomenal shape” and “the wheels are in motion.” Translation: #Jets remain very interested. Douglas acknowledges Becton injury more concerning than initially anticipated.
This is what I like to see.
Post by: MBGreen on August 09, 2022, 09:08:21 AM
This is what I like to see.
Yes...sign him (spare no expense), then go trade for Roquan Smith.
Post by: Badger on August 09, 2022, 09:08:52 AM
Dov KleimanRIP Hamilcar
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
13m
#Jets signed OL Caleb Benenoch, OL Chris Glaser and cut OL Parker Ferguson, DE Hamilcar Rashed.
Post by: delavan on August 09, 2022, 09:21:33 AM
Plan B, out-of-LF improbable spitballing: if a Brown deal falls through slide AVT out to RT with Nate Herbig inside...
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 09, 2022, 09:31:14 AM
Post by: delavan on August 09, 2022, 09:45:04 AM
https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/why-new-york-should-not-sign-free-agent-offensive-tackle-duane-brown-scouting-report
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8803
Post by: MBGreen on August 09, 2022, 09:57:48 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 09, 2022, 10:02:03 AM
FWIW
https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/why-new-york-should-not-sign-free-agent-offensive-tackle-duane-brown-scouting-report
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8803
Daniel Kelly is a joke and a fraud. Please do not post his articles on this website.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 09, 2022, 10:25:16 AM
Post by: MBGreen on August 09, 2022, 10:34:48 AM
can AVT play RT?
if we're already asking questions like this...the season will be over quick.
Post by: delavan on August 09, 2022, 10:42:34 AM
Daniel Kelly is a joke and a fraud.‘FWIW’ my post was prefaced thusly. That said, Brown’s sacks allowed and false starts did spike last year - stats provided (in the 2nd leak) by the WAPO. That said (I’m not really familiar with DK), honest question: what’s the problem with this guy? thx
Please do not post his articles on this website.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 09, 2022, 11:25:09 AM
if we're already asking questions like this...the season will be over quick.
Desperate times...Wilson was sacked on 5 straight plays or something ridiculous to start practice with Edoga in. Can't win games if Wilson is constantly on his back.
UPDATE:
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
·
51s
I had Zach Wilson sacked eight times today, by the way. Yikes. #Jets
Post by: Heismanberg on August 09, 2022, 11:25:20 AM
can AVT play RT?
He was a tackle at USC
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 09, 2022, 11:43:37 AM
He was a tackle at USC
If we can't sign Brown, slide AVT over.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 09, 2022, 11:48:46 AM
If we can't sign Brown, slide AVT over.He's an elite guard prospect. He's not an elite tackle prospect. He has T-Rex arms. He's also a 2nd-year guy already making a position change, so I don't know if we want to throw another position change at him already.
The only way it makes sense to move AVT to RT right now is if there was a Duane Brown equivalent at OG we preferred over Brown.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 09, 2022, 04:49:05 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 09, 2022, 05:16:44 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 09, 2022, 06:04:06 PM
‘FWIW’ my post was prefaced thusly. That said, Brown’s sacks allowed and false starts did spike last year - stats provided (in the 2nd leak) by the WAPO. That said (I’m not really familiar with DK), honest question: what’s the problem with this guy? thx
He claims to be a former NFL scout when he's just a poser. You can Google him or take a look at his Twitter feed if you want a better idea of what a weirdo that guy is.
Post by: reuben on August 10, 2022, 01:18:34 PM
Probably bullshit, but if we got Slauson/Winters production out of Mitchell, I'd be happy.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 10, 2022, 01:34:01 PM
https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1557405797587591174 (https://twitter.com/connor_j_hughes/status/1557405797587591174)McDermott and Edoga aren't good, and Mitchell was drafted presumably to take over for them in this system. Would be nice if he's ahead of schedule.
Probably bullshit, but if we got Slauson/Winters production out of Mitchell, I'd be happy.
I think you need to take a lot of this stuff with a grain of salt because some of it might be trying to gain leverage in FA negotiations with a guy like Brown, but Mitchell beating out McDermott and Edoga would be welcome news.
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 10, 2022, 03:00:48 PM
McDermott and Edoga aren't good, and Mitchell was drafted presumably to take over for them in this system. Would be nice if he's ahead of schedule.
I think you need to take a lot of this stuff with a grain of salt because some of it might be trying to gain leverage in FA negotiations with a guy like Brown, but Mitchell beating out McDermott and Edoga would be welcome news.
agree with you guys that it's good to hear but probably a leverage move on our part with regards to free agency. he obviously has talent and athleticism but was drafted as a project, and even now being ahead of edoga and mcdermott probably isn't saying much
i liked the idea Heis mentioned of moving for teven jenkins the other day. irrespective of draft position, if he really is out of favor in chicago and especially with a new coach/GM regime that did not draft him and has no ties to him, i can't imagine he would be particularly expensive to try and trade for
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 10, 2022, 03:10:22 PM
agree with you guys that it's good to hear but probably a leverage move on our part with regards to free agency. he obviously has talent and athleticism but was drafted as a project, and even now being ahead of edoga and mcdermott probably isn't saying muchI'm not sold Teven Jenkins is better than McDermott, Edoga or Mitchell. If we want to take a shot on him, I'm fine taking as many chances as possible at protecting Wilson, but Jenkins was bad last year, and now a new staff wants nothing to do with him.
i liked the idea Heis mentioned of moving for teven jenkins the other day. irrespective of draft position, if he really is out of favor in chicago and especially with a new coach/GM regime that did not draft him and has no ties to him, i can't imagine he would be particularly expensive to try and trade for
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 10, 2022, 03:55:52 PM
I'm not sold Teven Jenkins is better than McDermott, Edoga or Mitchell. If we want to take a shot on him, I'm fine taking as many chances as possible at protecting Wilson, but Jenkins was bad last year, and now a new staff wants nothing to do with him.
getting another young/talented body for our OL is obviously something very appealing to me, but you have to wonder if there is more to his back/spinal surgery that the bears/jenkins aren't talking about
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 10, 2022, 04:22:16 PM
getting another young/talented body for our OL is obviously something very appealing to me, but you have to wonder if there is more to his back/spinal surgery that the bears/jenkins aren't talking aboutIf Mitchell really does have a shot to start this year, I would put all my energy into developing him.
Damien Woody agrees. I kind of like this take. Keep Fant at LT, try to develop Mitchell as RT with Brown as depth, and if it's a disaster, switch it later with Brown.
https://twitter.com/damienwoody/status/1557409168339963904
Post by: Laxin on August 10, 2022, 08:12:54 PM
If Mitchell really does have a shot to start this year, I would put all my energy into developing him.
Damien Woody agrees. I kind of like this take. Keep Fant at LT, try to develop Mitchell as RT with Brown as depth, and if it's a disaster, switch it later with Brown.
https://twitter.com/damienwoody/status/1557409168339963904
This probably has the most upside, and worst case scenario it allows Brown to get in shape and learn the playbook
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 12, 2022, 06:25:23 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 17, 2022, 03:46:24 PM
Quote
Rich Cimini
To make room for Mike Remmers, the Jets released backup OL Conor McDermott. Back down to 8 OLM. #Jets
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 17, 2022, 03:57:31 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 17, 2022, 04:12:30 PM
Glad he's gone. Waste of a roster spot. Thanks for the touchdown last year.
(I assume he'll be on the PS soon)
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 17, 2022, 04:21:57 PM
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on October 24, 2022, 02:26:15 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 24, 2022, 02:26:59 PM
So according to Cimini AVT is also done for the year. Torn triceps.
(https://media.tenor.com/nVcjGxX_iokAAAAC/killme-adamsandler.gif)
Post by: Johnny English on October 24, 2022, 04:11:45 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 24, 2022, 04:31:41 PM
Do we know how close Mitchell is to being ready to return?
probably not any time soon
Post by: Badger on October 27, 2022, 06:45:20 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2022, 09:47:55 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2022, 09:54:47 AM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1586731149644161026?t=Zt1Dhy5WpdGg_4viIz0DNg&s=19
Good.
Post by: delavan on October 30, 2022, 02:24:22 PM
makeshift trash
Post by: reuben on October 30, 2022, 05:38:00 PM
Post by: Badger on October 30, 2022, 05:49:26 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2022, 05:50:03 PM
I wasn't focused on him today but could anyone tell how Ogbuehi did?
He was bad
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2022, 05:52:06 PM
I wasn't focused on him today but could anyone tell how Ogbuehi did?How dare you not focus on our 7th string offensive tackle.
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2022, 11:46:51 AM
https://twitter.com/WingfieldNFL/status/1587481034492346372?s=19
Post by: Libero_2 on November 01, 2022, 03:47:12 PM
The mediocre-OL-for-us to competent-starter-elsewhere pipeline continues.
https://twitter.com/WingfieldNFL/status/1587481034492346372?s=19
Wasn’t she’ll the guy Carl Lawson abused for 7 hits a few weeks ago?
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2022, 03:47:55 PM
Wasn’t she’ll the guy Carl Lawson abused for 7 hits a few weeks ago?If we started Brandon Shell, I don't think "competent" would be the word we'd use.
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2022, 04:15:35 PM
Wasn’t she’ll the guy Carl Lawson abused for 7 hits a few weeks ago?Not according to PFF apparently
Post by: Libero_2 on November 01, 2022, 04:52:46 PM
Not according to PFF apparentlyI re-read the tweet. At RT. When Lawson took his lunch that was at LT, so that obviously is irrelevant /s
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
I re-read the tweet. At RT. When Lawson took his lunch that was at LT, so that obviously is irrelevant /sGood catch, I honestly didn't notice the qualifier when I posted it.
Post by: reuben on November 16, 2022, 12:49:14 PM
Stunt on these hoes
Post by: Libero_2 on November 16, 2022, 12:52:42 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1592939508915654658 (https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1592939508915654658)
Stunt on these hoes
Given he came back first before Fant, if he plays well before Fant returns, I bet he keeps the gig.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 01, 2022, 07:56:40 AM
Quote
Tom Pelissero
Free-agent center Matt Paradis has been fully cleared to return to football by renowned knee specialist Dr. Robert LaPrade, who did Paradis’ ACL reconstruction last year, per source. Teams already have expressed interest in Paradis, now the top center available.
McGovern has been holding his own...I wonder if JD has any interest
Post by: Johnny English on December 01, 2022, 08:01:53 AM
McGovern has been holding his own...I wonder if JD has any interest
I'd rather we drafted one. As you say, McGovern has actually been OK this year - I'd rather draft a long term player at the position who isn't under pressure to come in and perform immediately next year.
Post by: MBGreen on December 01, 2022, 08:04:10 AM
I'd rather we drafted one. As you say, McGovern has actually been OK this year - I'd rather draft a long term player at the position who isn't under pressure to come in and perform immediately next year.
The Center from TCU should be in JD's draft crosshairs.
Post by: Badger on December 01, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
The Center from TCU should be in JD's draft crosshairs.As of this moment I'm declaring my support for Joe Tippman.
Simply draft the biggest center.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 01, 2022, 08:51:24 AM
As of this moment I'm declaring my support for Joe Tippman.
Simply draft the biggest center.
SloppyFatzCenter SZN
Post by: MBGreen on December 01, 2022, 09:08:08 AM
As of this moment I'm declaring my support for Joe Tippman.
Simply draft the biggest center.
I think you'll like Esteban "Steve" Avila from TCU. Can play both Center and Guard
6'4, 330lbs
team captain
Nasty, durable
Career Honors
- 2021 First-Team AP All-Big 12
- 2021 Second-Team All-Big 12
- 2020 Honorable-Mention All-Big 12
Post by: steves850 on December 01, 2022, 11:26:32 AM
I think you'll like Esteban "Steve" Avila from TCU. Can play both Center and Guard
6'4, 330lbs
team captain
Nasty, durable
Career Honors
- 2021 First-Team AP All-Big 12
- 2021 Second-Team All-Big 12
- 2020 Honorable-Mention All-Big 12
Top Tier name. I fully endorse this man and all his future endeavors.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 01, 2022, 11:32:15 AM
Post by: Badger on December 01, 2022, 11:36:00 AM
Wherever we go out, the people always shout
John Jacob Jingle Michael Schmitz
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 01, 2022, 11:39:47 AM
Wherever we go out, the people always shout
Lol
Post by: Heismanberg on December 01, 2022, 11:45:39 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 01, 2022, 12:14:33 PM
Post by: reuben on December 03, 2022, 11:34:20 PM
LFG on both counts
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2022, 07:11:23 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2022, 09:22:58 AM
Keep Mitchell on the field.
this
Mitchell could be the future longterm starter on our OL and Fant is likely gone in 2023.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2022, 02:02:00 PM
I wish we had any semblance of competent OL play we could count on going forwards. Our OL can’t get any push in the running game the last few games, and the pass protection has been bad the last few weeks. We need to get that shored up.Replying to this post in the OL thread...
I am shocked to say it because I expected him to be a quality starter, if not an elite one, but Laken Tomlinson has been atrocious all season and shown no signs of improvement, if we can get out of his contract we need to. McGovern is roughly capable 55% of the time. Brown has gotten weaker as the season has gone on. I’ll bet you anything that shoulder is killing him and he’s struggling to hold up because of it.
If it were up to me, next year we move on from Tomlinson as a guaranteed starter, we retain Herbig and if we can’t get out of Tomlinson contract outright, we make him compete with AVT and Herbig for a starting spot. At tackle we try and get brown his surgery to retire. We sign a tackle and draft one in the top 2 rounds. At C we make a significant financial investment after letting McGovern walk.
Kind of crazy for all the draft capital and FA money that JD has sunk into the OL that your offseason plan is to make significant moves at 3 OL spots. And you're probably not wrong.
We save $8.8M if we cut Tomlinson. Is he worth that much for a year? Probably not the way he's played.
I am curious about Mitchell's long-term prognosis and how the Jets view him. Is he trustworthy enough to start next season? Is Becton enough of a handcuff to make that work?
OT: ???
G: Herbig/???
C: ???
OG: Vera-Tucker
OT: Mitchell/Becton
Post by: Libero_2 on December 12, 2022, 02:08:40 PM
Replying to this post in the OL thread...
Kind of crazy for all the draft capital and FA money that JD has sunk into the OL that your offseason plan is to make significant moves at 3 OL spots. And you're probably not wrong.
We save $8.8M if we cut Tomlinson. Is he worth that much for a year? Probably not the way he's played.
I am curious about Mitchell's long-term prognosis and how the Jets view him. Is he trustworthy enough to start next season? Is Becton enough of a handcuff to make that work?
OT: ???
G: Herbig/???
C: ???
OG: Vera-Tucker
OT: Mitchell/Becton
Like I said we have to add two tackles in my opinion. I know for a fact McGovern has people at 1JD that cannot wait for him to be replaced. He’s a serviceable player, but not worth anything near what he’s being paid. I can’t imagine the Jets retain him at his current salary. Would JD bring him back at 50% of his current salary to maintain continuity while he drafts a guy to groom? Perhaps, but it would seem unlikely to me that McGovern would accept that deal.we wanted to upgrade him with Ryan Jensen last offseason, I expect us to be players in the C market this spring.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 12, 2022, 02:47:17 PM
But young team, talented skill players, personable coach, reasonable playoff contender. I guess the biggest unknown will be the QB situation, and hopefully we have that sorted out before free agency
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2022, 03:01:58 PM
Replying to this post in the OL thread...
Kind of crazy for all the draft capital and FA money that JD has sunk into the OL that your offseason plan is to make significant moves at 3 OL spots. And you're probably not wrong.
We save $8.8M if we cut Tomlinson. Is he worth that much for a year? Probably not the way he's played.
I am curious about Mitchell's long-term prognosis and how the Jets view him. Is he trustworthy enough to start next season? Is Becton enough of a handcuff to make that work?
OT: ???
G: Herbig/???
C: ???
OG: Vera-Tucker
OT: Mitchell/Becton
I think AVT is a tackle next year. He's clearly very good there, he'll get more money, and it's probably easier to find a replacement guard.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 12, 2022, 03:02:30 PM
The one saving grace is this team might actually be a reasonably attractive destination for free agents too. Sure we're not gonna be up there with the Chiefs etc etc
But young team, talented skill players, personable coach, reasonable playoff contender. I guess the biggest unknown will be the QB situation, and hopefully we have that sorted out before free agency
We are young, fun to watch and are a talented group. If we had a top QB we’d be super bowl contenders. We finally won’t be a team people dick around with for more money because no one wants to play here. But we aren’t a top spot for elite talents just yet.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2022, 03:03:38 PM
I think AVT is a tackle next year. He's clearly very good there, he'll get more money, and it's probably easier to find a replacement guard.I don't know. They drafted him as a guard. There was never any thought of him moving to tackle until we were desperate. His versatility gives us options, but I think ideally, he's a guard who can swing outside as depth.
Post by: Badger on December 12, 2022, 03:31:55 PM
I think AVT is a tackle next year. He's clearly very good there, he'll get more money, and it's probably easier to find a replacement guard.Right, you can find a gord anywhere.
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2022, 04:04:57 PM
Right, you can find a gord anywhere.
You probably can't, but as we have two starting caliber guards on the roster currently in Herbig and Tomlinson, we actually don't need to (although we clearly do need depth there as Feeney is currently listed as the back up to all 3 IOL positions and I imagine LDT will decide to go and spend half the season studying tropical diseases of the inner cornea). In contrast, we currently have one player on the roster who I'm sure is both talented enough and likely to be healthy enough to start at tackle next year, and that's AVT. Becton, Fant, Mitchell and Brown all have their own questions related to health, contract and age, and I'm pretty sure that no one wants or expects Ogbuehi or Remmers to be on the roster.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 12, 2022, 04:37:02 PM
I don't know. They drafted him as a guard. There was never any thought of him moving to tackle until we were desperate. His versatility gives us options, but I think ideally, he's a guard who can swing outside as depth.
Ideally, he's a longterm starter at tackle.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2022, 05:08:28 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 12, 2022, 05:12:40 PM
Would we rather have a top-5 guard or a top-15 tackle? I don't know the answer, but that might be the calculus. And maybe I'm wrong, too, but I assume there was a good reason everyone thought he was mostly a guard coming out (likely arm length).
Top 15 tackle. No question.
Now is AVT actually a top 15 tackle? He played like it for a few games, most of which weren’t against elite pass rushers on the edge.
I have zero doubt he’s a top 3 OG in the League when healthy. So I’m inclined to keep him inside. But if the team legitimately believes he’s a top tackle too, then play him there and don’t think twice.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 12, 2022, 05:15:41 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2022, 05:28:10 PM
Would we rather have a top-5 guard or a top-15 tackle? I don't know the answer, but that might be the calculus. And maybe I'm wrong, too, but I assume there was a good reason everyone thought he was mostly a guard coming out (likely arm length).
I'm inclined to place less faith in what people thought about what he could or couldn't do before he had played a snap in the NFL, and more in what I've actually seen him do in the NFL. Obviously the list of people in the world who understand the complexities and subtleties of OL play better than me is impressively long, and I'm quite ready to believe that a professional coaching staff might look at how he played at tackle and say "he did some good things but there are some physical / technical deficiencies there that we can't overcome, and which will get found out and taken advantage of", but until that happens he remains in my eyes the best tackle in a Jets jersey this season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 12, 2022, 06:10:01 PM
I'm inclined to place less faith in what people thought about what he could or couldn't do before he had played a snap in the NFL, and more in what I've actually seen him do in the NFL. Obviously the list of people in the world who understand the complexities and subtleties of OL play better than me is impressively long, and I'm quite ready to believe that a professional coaching staff might look at how he played at tackle and say "he did some good things but there are some physical / technical deficiencies there that we can't overcome, and which will get found out and taken advantage of", but until that happens he remains in my eyes the best tackle in a Jets jersey this season.I get that, but the Jets drafted him as a guard and kept him as a guard until Conor McDermott was the potential OT starter. Desperation moved him to OT.
Does 3.5 games change the Jets' perception of where AVT should be long-term? Who knows, but the Jets clearly thought he was a guard for a while.
I think some of it could come down to the available options in FA. Do we keep Tomlinson? Do we think Herbig can start? If both are true, then maybe keep AVT at tackle, have Mitchell and Becton compete for the other spot, get another swing guard/tackle as depth, and figure out center. If we want to upgrade Herbig/Tomlinson, then are the best available options at guard or tackle? AVT's versatility gives us options. But I think they prefer him at guard.
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2022, 07:34:10 AM
I don't know. They drafted him as a guard. There was never any thought of him moving to tackle until we were desperate. His versatility gives us options, but I think ideally, he's a guard who can swing outside as depth.
AVT has shown he can play the tackle position at an elite level. Why wouldn't the team move him there permanently? It puts more money into his pocket and the Jets fill a premium position. Who cares what he was drafted as.
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2022, 08:36:17 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 13, 2022, 11:26:43 AM
Part of the appeal of keeping AVT at tackle is having one less spot to fill on the OL.
Well that assumes you trust Tomlinson to handle an OG spot and Herbig to get resigned. Otherwise you are just closing an OT hole to open an OG hole. We saw what happens with trash at OG with GVR starting. So that’s not necessarily a positive either.
It just depends where you are able to acquire talent to start on your line
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2022, 11:37:51 AM
Well that assumes you trust Tomlinson to handle an OG spot and Herbig to get resigned. Otherwise you are just closing an OT hole to open an OG hole. We saw what happens with trash at OG with GVR starting. So that’s not necessarily a positive either.I don't think we're in a position to cut Tomlinson unless one truly believes we'd get the same performance from a JAG.
It just depends where you are able to acquire talent to start on your line
So yeah, in this scenario we'd have him and Herbig returning.
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2022, 12:10:08 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 13, 2022, 12:11:52 PM
I don't see why we wouldn't have Herbig and Tomlinson starting next year. Tomlinson had a shaky start but seems to have really improved, Herbig has been solid from the outset. We're probably in the market for at least one tackle and a center to start next season, so I don't know how much more change we should be making on the line.
McGovern is better than both of our guards. I don't think either guard needs to be replaced either. We need to find consistent play at one of the tackle spots.
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2022, 12:21:40 PM
McGovern is better than both of our guards. I don't think either guard needs to be replaced either. We need to find consistent play at one of the tackle spots.
Sure. I'm generally happy with the interior line - the issues with the run game are concerning but I don't know how much is them, the scheme, the tackles, the playcalling, and the loss of Breece (I suspect a little bit from each). My point was more that McGovern is out of contract so we have to plan to be replacing him, in case we have to. I'm quite happy if he wants to sign a new deal.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 13, 2022, 12:48:28 PM
Sure. I'm generally happy with the interior line - the issues with the run game are concerning but I don't know how much is them, the scheme, the tackles, the playcalling, and the loss of Breece (I suspect a little bit from each). My point was more that McGovern is out of contract so we have to plan to be replacing him, in case we have to. I'm quite happy if he wants to sign a new deal.
Brown and Tomlinson are ideal fits in the scheme that LaFleur wants to run. He just doesn't seem to know how to call it.
Tomlinson was a Pro Bowler in the Shanahan offense.
Post by: Coach K on December 13, 2022, 12:52:55 PM
LB and S would be nice there too
Between McGovern being FA . Uncertainty with Fant and Brown and Becton and Mitchell . What's going on with AVT when he's healthy?
Yeah we need 2 more bodies in here . One interior and one OT
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 13, 2022, 01:05:44 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 13, 2022, 01:37:41 PM
I don't want to rely on Fant or Brown to play tackle next season, let alone both of them.
Brown is good
Post by: Johnny English on December 13, 2022, 01:55:39 PM
Brown is good
Yes but he's 38 at the start of next season. Happy for him to be on the team next year but he can't be our only option, and a Becton/Brown tandem at LT doesn't fill me with a sense of comfort.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 13, 2022, 02:00:50 PM
Brown is good
He's also old and coming off a shoulder injury that almost cost him the entire season. Building the OLine around a 38 year old left tackle should not be the first option.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he decides to get finally get surgery on that shoulder after the season ends and retires. He's not a bad fall back strategy, but he's a terrible first one.
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2022, 02:02:46 PM
He's also old and coming off a shoulder injury that almost cost him the entire season. Building the OLine around a 38 year old left tackle should not be the first option.Yeah. Decent fallback option but maybe not Plan A.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 09:06:02 AM
Our QB was pressured 22 times, hit 5 times, and sacked 4 times.
Mike LaFleur, John Benton, and the shape of our current offensive line are all partly responsible for this. The thing is, we've done absolutely nothing to adapt to our injuries and our personnel.
SF and MIA use a fullback to create lanes and misdirection. We haven't seen that at all from our offensive staff. Fant was getting absolutely destroyed on the right side yesterday and we saw very little help for him from TEs or chipping RBs.
No adjustments other than going away from what's working.
Changes need to be made. Benton has the injuries excuse but he's also failed to get solid play from a key free agent signing like Laken Tomlinson. LaFleur is unsure of how to call a creative run game like you see in SF or MIA.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 09:11:27 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 09:13:11 AM
22 carries for 50 yards yesterday. We didn't have a run over longer than 6 yards. Our offensive line got manhandled by one of the league's worst run defenses.
Our QB was pressured 22 times, hit 5 times, and sacked 4 times.
Mike LaFleur, John Benton, and the shape of our current offensive line are all partly responsible for this. The thing is, we've done absolutely nothing to adapt to our injuries and our personnel.
SF and MIA use a fullback to create lanes and misdirection. We haven't seen that at all from our offensive staff. Fant was getting absolutely destroyed on the right side yesterday and we saw very little help for him from TEs or chipping RBs.
No adjustments other than going away from what's working.
Changes need to be made. Benton has the injuries excuse but he's also failed to get solid play from a key free agent signing like Laken Tomlinson. LaFleur is unsure of how to call a creative run game like you see in SF or MIA.
Benton is both the OL and Run Game Co-Ordinator, so I think you can probably hang that one on him pretty comfortably. As I said yesterday though they were clearly loading the box in the first half to stop us protecting Zach with the run game, and inviting him to beat them with his arm. In the second half they adjusted and we didn't, which is a pretty common tale and sits on all the coaching staff, particularly Lafleur.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 19, 2022, 09:13:52 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 09:28:47 AM
Middleton for OC
I know he looks like a grizzled old head who has been doing this for three decades, but he only has 4 more years of coaching experience than MLF and has never called plays before outside of the Senior Bowl.
I have raised this as an issue previously, but whatever the complaints about MLF and no matter how justified they may or may not be there is no one on the coaching staff who has more experience or is better qualified to be calling plays, because no one on our staff has ever done it before. This is a significant problem, and my preferred solution in the spring is not to fire Lafleur, but to find him an experienced assistant who has been round the block.
I imagine if they do this then Saleh and MLF will reach back into their Rolodex and call someone they've worked with before, but if they're looking for a name I might give Marty Mornhinweg a call. He might not have had the best time as Jets OC but he has seen it all, he's a QB guru, and he's the right balance of not so old as to be out of touch but too old to be seen as a threat to anyone's job.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 09:31:03 AM
I know he looks like a grizzled old head who has been doing this for three decades, but he only has 4 more years of coaching experience than MLF and has never called plays before outside of the Senior Bowl.
I have raised this as an issue previously, but whatever the complaints about MLF and no matter how justified they may or may not be there is no one on the coaching staff who has more experience or is better qualified to be calling plays, because no one on our staff has ever done it before. This is a significant problem, and my preferred solution in the spring is not to fire Lafleur, but to find him an experienced assistant who has been round the block.
I imagine if they do this then Saleh and MLF will reach back into their Rolodex and call someone they've worked with before, but if they're looking for a name I might give Marty Mornhinweg a call. He might not have had the best time as Jets OC but he has seen it all, he's a QB guru, and he's the right balance of not so old as to be out of touch but too old to be seen as a threat to anyone's job.
Not replacing Knapp in this past offseason was a big miss by Saleh.
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2022, 09:31:31 AM
I know he looks like a grizzled old head who has been doing this for three decades, but he only has 4 more years of coaching experience than MLF and has never called plays before outside of the Senior Bowl.
I have raised this as an issue previously, but whatever the complaints about MLF and no matter how justified they may or may not be there is no one on the coaching staff who has more experience or is better qualified to be calling plays, because no one on our staff has ever done it before. This is a significant problem, and my preferred solution in the spring is not to fire Lafleur, but to find him an experienced assistant who has been round the block.
I imagine if they do this then Saleh and MLF will reach back into their Rolodex and call someone they've worked with before, but if they're looking for a name I might give Marty Mornhinweg a call. He might not have had the best time as Jets OC but he has seen it all, he's a QB guru, and he's the right balance of not so old as to be out of touch but too old to be seen as a threat to anyone's job.
Frank Reich is at the top of my OC wishlist
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 09:33:42 AM
Not replacing Knapp in this past offseason was a big miss by Saleh.
Yes agreed, I suspect that having muddled through season 1 (which I don't blame them for at all) the thinking was that they were through the worst part of the learning / experience curve and could take it on their own from there.
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 09:35:16 AM
Frank Reich is at the top of my OC wishlist
That's the problem though, he would expect to be OC. I don't want us to have to go through another reset of scheme, changing personnel to fit, asking Zach to have to take on an extra challenge and so on, and I doubt Saleh and Douglas do either. I want someone to help Lafleur get better, not someone to replace him.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 09:37:24 AM
That's the problem though, he would expect to be OC. I don't want us to have to go through another reset of scheme, changing personnel to fit, asking Zach to have to take on an extra challenge and so on, and I doubt Saleh and Douglas do either. I want someone to help Lafleur get better, not someone to replace him.
If we move on from LaFleur, we're moving on from Zach Wilson too.
Most likely scenario right now is we trade Zach Wilson and re-sign Mike White to a prove it deal. If that doesn't work, we're likely starting over at GM and HC.
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 09:47:48 AM
If we move on from LaFleur, we're moving on from Zach Wilson too.
Most likely scenario right now is we trade Zach Wilson and re-sign Mike White to a prove it deal. If that doesn't work, we're likely starting over at GM and HC.
I don't think I agree. I think they'll run it back with Zach one more year, two seasons is a very short time to give up on a QB prospect. My guess is that they let White walk and get his career deal on the open market from someone looking for a placeholder (e.g. Tampa), and sign a vet who gives us a legit chance of competing if Zach doesn't take the next step. I don't think Douglas is at risk no matter what happens next year, nor should he be, and if the defense continues to be dominant but let down by the offense I think Saleh probably survives as well.
I don't think we should be making significant moves this offseason, which means not replacing key personnel on either side of the line. I think we've spent the season seeing glimpses of what this team could be, and extensive panoramas of why it isn't. IMO it's time to help the talent grow, not to replace it.
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2022, 09:50:37 AM
That's the problem though, he would expect to be OC. I don't want us to have to go through another reset of scheme, changing personnel to fit, asking Zach to have to take on an extra challenge and so on, and I doubt Saleh and Douglas do either. I want someone to help Lafleur get better, not someone to replace him.
I'd prefer not to spin our wheels hoping that our subpar OC "might" get better. He's had 2 seasons to figure it out, and may have ruined another QB in the process.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 09:50:39 AM
I don't think I agree. I think they'll run it back with Zach one more year, two seasons is a very short time to give up on a QB prospect.
Josh Rosen
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 09:53:24 AM
I don't think I agree. I think they'll run it back with Zach one more year, two seasons is a very short time to give up on a QB prospect. My guess is that they let White walk and get his career deal on the open market from someone looking for a placeholder (e.g. Tampa), and sign a vet who gives us a legit chance of competing if Zach doesn't take the next step. I don't think Douglas is at risk no matter what happens next year, nor should he be, and if the defense continues to be dominant but let down by the offense I think Saleh probably survives as well.I disagree about next season. Everything is on the table next season, including Douglas' gig. I don't believe in playoff mandates, but if we regress to a bad year next season, everything is on the table. I like what Douglas has done, but if we go 4-13 next year, I don't know if he survives. He and Saleh are a package deal right now IMO.
I don't think we should be making significant moves this offseason, which means not replacing key personnel on either side of the line. I think we've spent the season seeing glimpses of what this team could be, and extensive panoramas of why it isn't. IMO it's time to help the talent grow, not to replace it.
I agree I don't think we make significant changes this offseason. I like adding another veteran offensive voice into the room.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 09:57:54 AM
I disagree about next season. Everything is on the table next season, including Douglas' gig. I don't believe in playoff mandates, but if we regress to a bad year next season, everything is on the table. I like what Douglas has done, but if we go 4-13 next year, I don't know if he survives. He and Saleh are a package deal right now IMO.
I agree I don't think we make significant changes this offseason. I like adding another veteran offensive voice into the room.
If we don't compete for the playoffs next year, we're moving on from Saleh and Douglas. That's a no-brainer.
We absolutely need to make some changes to our personnel. especially OT and WR.
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 10:02:41 AM
I'd prefer not to spin our wheels hoping that our subpar OC "might" get better. He's had 2 seasons to figure it out, and may have ruined another QB in the process.
That's entirely my point. In no sensible walk of life do we expect people just promoted into key roles to "figure it out", we provide them with extensive support and training and guidance. We haven't done that with MLF at all - again we clearly tried to and it was no one's fault what happened with Knapp - and it seems like a wrong move to throw away a guy who is clearly well thought of by many including the head coach, rather than trying to help him develop. It seems a bit contradictory to blame him for ruining Zach and not think the same has been done to him.
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 10:03:51 AM
Josh Rosen
That was a very specific situation with Kingsbury though. I'm not sure that Rosen and Zach are comparable.
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2022, 10:06:10 AM
That's entirely my point. In no sensible walk of life do we expect people just promoted into key roles to "figure it out", we provide them with extensive support and training and guidance. We haven't done that with MLF at all - again we clearly tried to and it was no one's fault what happened with Knapp - and it seems like a wrong move to throw away a guy who is clearly well thought of by many including the head coach, rather than trying to help him develop. It seems a bit contradictory to blame him for ruining Zach and not think the same has been done to him.
OCs who have a hand in ruining a QB taken 2nd overall usually aren't given the benefit of the doubt. And by "usually", i mean never.
Saleh and Big Joe will most likely be shown the door too, if we regress next year (like others have alluded to).
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 10:06:18 AM
I disagree about next season. Everything is on the table next season, including Douglas' gig. I don't believe in playoff mandates, but if we regress to a bad year next season, everything is on the table. I like what Douglas has done, but if we go 4-13 next year, I don't know if he survives. He and Saleh are a package deal right now IMO.
I agree I don't think we make significant changes this offseason. I like adding another veteran offensive voice into the room.
Of course if we massively regress then all bets are off, but I don't think that will happen. I have faith in Douglas to return an improved roster next season because he has every year he's been here, and now that we've built that defensive identity I think we'll retain it and continue to be a force on that side of the ball as long as Saleh and Ulbrich are running it. And as long as we do we'll win games, because a defense this good can simply throttle enough opponents in a season to get you some wins.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 10:07:08 AM
That was a very specific situation with Kingsbury though. I'm not sure that Rosen and Zach are comparable.
Matt Leinart's Arizona Cardinals team was similar to ours. Almost everything in place except the QB. Arizona brought in Kurt Warner and nearly won a Super Bowl.
I think Woody will push for a proven veteran like Aaron Rodgers.
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2022, 10:07:26 AM
That was a very specific situation with Kingsbury though. I'm not sure that Rosen and Zach are comparable.
this i agree with. I don't think they're the same QB either. Other than they're both douchebags
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2022, 10:08:21 AM
Matt Leinart's Arizona Cardinals team was similar to ours. Almost everything in place except the QB. Arizona brought in Kurt Warner and nearly won a Super Bowl.
I think Woody will push for a proven veteran like Aaron Rodgers.
Rodgers will retire at the end of this season.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 10:12:08 AM
Rodgers will retire at the end of this season.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 10:20:07 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 10:24:11 AM
Yeah I don't think Rodgers goes for one last ride, and if he does I don't know if he wants another Lafleur in his life - not to mention that I doubt Matt gives him a glowing reference as to what's left of his skills as a QB and a leader in the locker room. I was a fan of the idea earlier this season and if it happened I'd not find it too hard to get excited for the idea, but if it's my decision I'm not doing it.Well, I'm sure we'll get a pretty honest evaluation on Rodgers from Matt LaFleur if he becomes available.
Some really interesting QB options. The old-vet stopgap is certainly an option, including potentially Rodgers or Brady.
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 10:31:35 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2022, 10:32:07 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 19, 2022, 10:32:57 AM
Matt Leinart's Arizona Cardinals team was similar to ours. Almost everything in place except the QB. Arizona brought in Kurt Warner and nearly won a Super Bowl.
I think Woody will push for a proven veteran like Aaron Rodgers.
I just threw up on the floor.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 10:34:33 AM
Brady is not, for a whole host of very obvious reasons, an option.If he becomes available, he is absolutely an option. Do I want him? No, but he's an option. And he could easily want to try to beat Belichick. Rodgers makes more sense because he is younger though.
Garoppolo makes the most sense, assuming they think he is clearly better than White. Between Jimmy's injury and Purdy's solid play so far, his salary is probably dropping.
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2022, 10:34:51 AM
I think our most likely veteran option is still Jimmy G.
for a couple of games maybe....until he slips on a banana peel.
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 10:37:03 AM
If he becomes available, he is absolutely an option. Do I want him? No, but he's an option. And he could easily want to try to beat Belichick. Rodgers makes more sense because he is younger though.
Except Brady has made his feelings about the Jets clear many times in the past, and he knows how we feel about him. For many fans he would never be accepted, and for many others it would only take one bad half before they're all over him.
Not to mention, I don't know if he's the guy any more. I don't think I believe in his ability to win enough games to win a Super Bowl at this stage, and if he can't do that then there's zero point in even considering him.
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 19, 2022, 10:52:00 AM
Brady wants to end up in the Bay area.
He can end up in the actual bay for all I care. I don't want him.
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2022, 10:58:16 AM
He can end up in the actual bay for all I care. I don't want him.
Neither do I.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 19, 2022, 11:03:26 AM
But the dudes going to be 46, and isn't a world beater right now
Could I see the conversation happening, sure. I see the appeal for Woody, the need for the Jets (and the thoughts of having TB mentor Zach for one season) and TB getting his last chance to stick it to BB.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 11:07:45 AM
If TB was still peak TB I could at least entertain the conversationYeah, I don't really think Brady has that much ill will towards the Jets. I think that's all Belichick.
But the dudes going to be 46, and isn't a world beater right now
Could I see the conversation happening, sure. I see the appeal for Woody, the need for the Jets (and the thoughts of having TB mentor Zach for one season) and TB getting his last chance to stick it to BB.
I don't want Brady because he's too old and our OL isn't that good, and I don't want to root for him. But if we're looking at veteran stopgaps and guys like Aaron Rodgers, Brady isn't that much different.
Post by: reuben on December 19, 2022, 11:12:21 AM
Yeah, I don't really think Brady has that much ill will towards the Jets. I think that's all Belichick.
He's explicitly stated in the past that he hates the Jets.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 19, 2022, 01:20:30 PM
Brown
Tomlinson
McGovern
Herbig (the one guy that wasnt)
Fant
And we were hot garbage. This is the line we were supposed to have, and honestly it’s a disaster. Was any of the five good yesterday? I’m not sure they were.
Fant is definitely gone. We seriously need to be looking into cutting and or restructuring Tomlinson. We can’t pay that guy this kind of money anymore to be a bottom 10 OG. McGoverns deal is up and I know they want to replace him. Brown is going to get surgery in the offseason and even if he doesn’t retire, we have a 38 year Old LT only coming off majored shoulder surgery who has been average at best this year. AVT is a stud, coming off a season ending injury and we haven’t the faintest clue where he should play along the line to maximize his value. Oh and then there’s the Becton mess.
This OL is a disaster of epic proportions. It needs a complete overhaul. Not one position can be considered safe and settled right now.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 19, 2022, 01:21:29 PM
He's explicitly stated in the past that he hates the Jets.
So did Jason Taylor and that poopchute almost made a super bowl with us.
He won’t come here. We don’t want him here. But just because he hates us, won’t be the primary reason it won’t happen
Post by: dcm1602 on December 19, 2022, 01:40:41 PM
And there's no way we're anywhere even near the best places for a FA QB to go to win. We're a young solid team, but we also play in the most competitive division in football, in a fairly stacked conference
I imagine all the best win now places are in the NFC
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 01:56:24 PM
Not to mention the obvious factor of at this point he's only playing to win.We are in the playoff hunt despite having some of the worst QB play in the NFL.
And there's no way we're anywhere even near the best places for a FA QB to go to win. We're a young solid team, but we also play in the most competitive division in football, in a fairly stacked conference
I imagine all the best win now places are in the NFC
We have a defense in place that is very good. We have one of the best young receivers in football and a compliment in Moore. We have a great RB in Hall. Any QB worth a damn probably thinks they can come here and lead a team to the playoffs at the very least.
Going from bad QB play to good QB play can be worth several wins.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 19, 2022, 02:15:48 PM
We are in the playoff hunt despite having some of the worst QB play in the NFL.
We have a defense in place that is very good. We have one of the best young receivers in football and a compliment in Moore. We have a great RB in Hall. Any QB worth a damn probably thinks they can come here and lead a team to the playoffs at the very least.
Going from bad QB play to good QB play can be worth several wins.
We are a good young team
With a very young very inexperienced coaching staff, where you probably need 13 wins to win the division.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 02:19:41 PM
We are a good young teamI really think you're overthinking this. Free agents aren't looking at how many wins they will need to win the division. And if they are, they probably have the confidence to get it.
With a very young very inexperienced coaching staff, where you probably need 13 wins to win the division.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 19, 2022, 02:37:31 PM
I really think you're overthinking this. Free agents aren't looking at how many wins they will need to win the division. And if they are, they probably have the confidence to get it.
This is a moot argument as TB isn't coming here
But anyone who is in win now mode is going to be interested in winning now. And the easiest path to the SB is the best way to do that
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 02:59:09 PM
This is a moot argument as TB isn't coming hereRodgers could easily come here if he springs free.
But anyone who is in win now mode is going to be interested in winning now. And the easiest path to the SB is the best way to do that
We're likely either going with White/Wilson or making a big splash elsewhere.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 19, 2022, 04:20:54 PM
Rodgers could easily come here if he springs free.
We're likely either going with White/Wilson or making a big splash elsewhere.
I absolutely agree Rodgers could.
But do you think it'll be because he wants to play for the Jets more than anywhere else, or because the Jets are the best deal for him?
With TB his wife was a billionaire, so his concern is presumably entirely on his legacy and or brand
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 19, 2022, 04:22:39 PM
I absolutely agree Rodgers could.I don't know where Rodgers would want to play more than anyone else, but I'm sure he'd enjoy throwing to Garrett Wilson with our defense.
But do you think it'll be because he wants to play for the Jets more than anywhere else, or because the Jets are the best deal for him?
With TB his wife was a billionaire, so his concern is presumably entirely on his legacy and or brand
Post by: Heismanberg on December 24, 2022, 01:17:53 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 01:25:55 PM
Remember when we couldn’t run the ball against Detroit?
Lol the Panthers are destroying their defense. We need 4 new starters.
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 05:29:55 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 24, 2022, 05:39:30 PM
Remember when we couldn’t run the ball against Detroit?
How much of a factor is Zach Wilson though?
Obviously our OL sucks and needs to be improved no questions asked. And our run game playcalling hasn't done any favors ever since Breece went down
But Zach being Zach surely resulted in the lions selling out for the run and giving up so many big plays in the passing game.
At the minimum I'd argue Zach makes our run game worse
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 05:43:25 PM
How much of a factor is Zach Wilson though?This is true in tbe sense DCs can run blitz with more confidence they're giving up less
Obviously our OL sucks and needs to be improved no questions asked. And our run game playcalling hasn't done any favors ever since Breece went down
But Zach being Zach surely resulted in the lions selling out for the run and giving up so many big plays in the passing game.
At the minimum I'd argue Zach makes our run game worse
But without watching the game I'd say I don't think Aaron Glenn feared Sam Darnold either lol
Post by: Coach K on December 24, 2022, 05:44:20 PM
McGovern is above avg but replaceable
Everyone else is a stop gap on tbe roster
Tomlinson was disappointing but tbe contract is there so he gets to compete next yr
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 24, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Breece Hall covered up so many talent and coaching deficiencies its not even funnyWe lost maybe our 2 best offensive players in the same game. AVT covered up a ton of issues. Whatever position we needed, we played him at. As good as Breece is, AVT was far more irrepleaceable. We badly miss his athleticism on some of these outside runs.
Nobody has done a good job since their injuries except Garrett. Zach is Zach. Moore has been flaky. The tight ends have been inconsistent. The OL has fallen off a cliff. Carter hasn't been quite as good. Robinson is a bust. Knight is fine for a rookie UDFA but he's a rookie UDFA. LaFleur hasn't found a way to scheme a running game, and he didn't do a good job developing Zach.
That said, even with all those issues, we had two of the better yardage totals in Jets history in 2 of Mike White's 3 games. QB is a massive issue right now. Every time Zach leaves the game, the offense looks competent. Most of the time Zach is in, it doesn't.
Post by: Badger on December 25, 2022, 09:38:33 PM
We lost maybe our 2 best offensive players in the same game.
This was the real moment the season "ended."
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2023, 09:29:12 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 02, 2023, 09:31:10 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 02, 2023, 11:15:33 AM
It's a pretty safe assumption that our OL is probably going to be up and down in 2023
Which would be an improvement over 2022
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2023, 12:09:28 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 09:19:51 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:22:54 PM
Maybe Max Mitchell but if that injury goes the wrong way his career could be in jeopardy
OL is yet again a massive need
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 12:25:40 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 05, 2023, 12:31:49 PM
I think McGovern should return. He's league average and won't cost much.
Yep.
Post by: Johnny English on January 05, 2023, 12:32:59 PM
I think McGovern should return. He's league average and won't cost much.
I won't object to bringing Tomlinson back either. He didn't just forget how to play at a high level, we're expecting significant changes on offense next year and there's no reason he can't be an important part of it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2023, 12:34:41 PM
We have AVT and that’s about itI've been talking about this in the Jets-Miami trade, but yeah, for seemingly the 10th offseason in a row, OL is our biggest need and we don't have an answer at quarterback.
Maybe Max Mitchell but if that injury goes the wrong way his career could be in jeopardy
OL is yet again a massive need
Depressing to go into every draft needing offensive linemen.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:37:31 PM
I've been talking about this in the Jets-Miami trade, but yeah, for seemingly the 10th offseason in a row, OL is our biggest need and we don't have an answer at quarterback.
Depressing to go into every draft needing offensive linemen.
We have also whiffed on all the high profile OL options every FA class and it hasn’t served us well
I’m not blaming JD, many of them simply chose a better team/situation- but something to keep in mind this offseason
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:38:20 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:40:02 PM
I won't object to bringing Tomlinson back either. He didn't just forget how to play at a high level, we're expecting significant changes on offense next year and there's no reason he can't be an important part of it.
Yeah we’re not cutting him after 1 year and ending up with $8M dead cap just to open another hole we have to plug
Hopefully he doesn’t suck as much next year with more continuity on the OL
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2023, 12:42:48 PM
I won't object to bringing Tomlinson back either. He didn't just forget how to play at a high level, we're expecting significant changes on offense next year and there's no reason he can't be an important part of it.
Yeah we’re not cutting him after 1 year and ending up with $8M dead cap just to open another hole we have to plugYeah, cutting Tomlinson just creates another hole to fill.
Hopefully he doesn’t suck as much next year with more continuity on the OL
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 12:44:18 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2023, 01:20:55 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 05, 2023, 01:30:07 PM
Are there any teams that have had their opening day OL stay intact?
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 05, 2023, 01:37:10 PM
Tomlinson needs to restructure
This is the correct Tomlinson take.
I really hope we have a better solution at center than McGovern but...eh.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 02:49:25 PM
Tomlinson, McGovern, AVT, Becton, Herbig/new gord, then whatever. Without even signing another OL, this offensive line is better just from getting back injured players already under contract. The problem is injuries and this group can't be relied upon. I'm not sure any OL in the NFL can be relied upon to not get injured honestly. excrement happens, it just seems to happen more here.
Are there any teams that have had their opening day OL stay intact?
I’m obviously a huge Becton fan and can’t wait to have him back but at a certain point we gotta stop penciling him into the lineup. At least not as a guy who can be relied on as a starter at OT
How good was this line, even with AVT playing? He was dominating at a new position every week, everyone else around him was different levels of suck/meh
Post by: bojanglesman on January 05, 2023, 03:03:18 PM
I’m obviously a huge Becton fan and can’t wait to have him back but at a certain point we gotta stop penciling him into the lineup. At least not as a guy who can be relied on as a starter at OTThere was a time with Hall that we were running well.
How good was this line, even with AVT playing? He was dominating at a new position every week, everyone else around him was different levels of suck/meh
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 03:11:11 PM
There was a time with Hall that we were running well.
He made a lot of those yards on his own.
The long TD run against Green Bay was supposed to be a pitch play but Hall kept it and made the play on his own.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 03:12:32 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 05, 2023, 03:16:02 PM
Almost half of Hall's yards were after contact
Why are you personally attacking Joe Douglas?
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:34:36 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 05, 2023, 08:39:09 PM
Sign pete Kendall and the ghost of jumbo elliot
i remember when we'd be able to make late IOL signings like pete kendall and dave szott like it was nothing, and they'd start playing and absolutely fvck
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:45:44 PM
i remember when we'd be able to make late IOL signings like pete kendall and dave szott like it was nothing, and they'd start playing and absolutely fvckRemember when we had coaching that could convert Brandon Moore from undrafted FA DT to pro bowl OG fixture
Pepperidge farm remembers
Post by: MBGreen on January 05, 2023, 09:09:59 PM
Remember when we had coaching that could convert Brandon Moore from undrafted FA DT to pro bowl OG fixtureI'd give my left nut to bring back Bill Callahan
Pepperidge farm remembers
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2023, 10:43:41 PM
i remember when we'd be able to make late IOL signings like pete kendall and dave szott like it was nothing, and they'd start playing and absolutely fvckMorgan Moses worked. I know OT instead of IOL, but he fit the bill.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 06, 2023, 10:05:32 AM
Quote
Dennis Waszak Jr. @DWAZ73
As for Brown and Fant, Saleh says "the wheels fell off" - their injuries were too much.
Says he's surprised Brown made it this far with the shoulder injury. Said Fant has been playing on one leg. #Jets
Doesn't explain everything, but maybe why we have regressed lately on the line. We all knew they were both playing injured, but probably didn't know it was this bad. I had read that Fant was basically one-legged at this point.
Doesn't change much anyway. I assume Brown retires and I don't know if Fant can get healthy before next year. I still think he's pretty good if healthy, but that's a big if for everyone I guess.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2023, 10:45:05 AM
Doesn't explain everything, but maybe why we have regressed lately on the line. We all knew they were both playing injured, but probably didn't know it was this bad. I had read that Fant was basically one-legged at this point.
Doesn't change much anyway. I assume Brown retires and I don't know if Fant can get healthy before next year. I still think he's pretty good if healthy, but that's a big if for everyone I guess.
Brown has been fine. I respect the hell out of him for going at it another year and playing through that injury for us when he could've just walked away.
Fant just needs to go. The way he handled the position change was enough to seal his fate here.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 06, 2023, 11:14:29 AM
Post by: Jumbo on January 06, 2023, 12:25:32 PM
That said, OL needs to be priority #2 behind QB in the offseason. It feels like this has been the line for the last decade in every offseason besides the one where we draft a QB, then loops back around when they suck as a rookie.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 06, 2023, 12:37:35 PM
We've had so many OL injuries that it's tough to lay blame for our OL problems anywhere. I've said it before but much better teams can barely withstand the level of injury we've currently had to our OL.
That said, OL needs to be priority #2 behind QB in the offseason. It feels like this has been the line for the last decade in every offseason besides the one where we draft a QB, then loops back around when they suck as a rookie.
We need to keep throwing resources at OL until it’s fixed. At least JD has shown the propensity to do that.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 06, 2023, 01:06:39 PM
Bring back McGovern at a reasonable price.
We need to heavily consider AVT at LT. He's our best lineman and he proved that he can play out there.
Take some swings at guards in free agency and the draft. At least two IOL need to be drafted this year. O'Cyrus Torrence will likely be up there on Douglas' wishlist.
LT: AVT
LG: Tomlinson (hopefully restructured)
OC: McGovern
RG: FA/Rookie
RT: McGlinchey
Serviceable
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 06, 2023, 01:21:33 PM
I'm hoping they stay healthy enough to at least provide depth, if not competition, but I really don't want them being looked at as more than that.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 11:46:16 AM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
·
6m
Alijah Vera-Tucker said he’ll be 100% ready to go for training camp. #Jets
lets ride
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 11:47:47 AM
lets ride
needs four other guys to help him out up front
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2023, 11:51:38 AM
Quote
Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
·
2m
Mekhi Becton says he’s “real skinny” right now and feels “real good.” Says he’s lost a “lot” of weight. Said he’ll be ready for OTAs and is close in his rehab to doing football stuff #Jets
i really want him to succeed here...but the trust level is at zero for me.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 11:52:40 AM
i really want him to succeed here...but the trust level is at zero for me.Same. The positive about him is that I have little concern about him when he's on the field. Dude is good if healthy.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 12:06:18 PM
No way you can trust him as a full-time starter. But it would be great if we could chalk up one tackle spot to either him or Mitchell, if Mitchell is healthy. AVT's versatility also helps here, as he can serve as a caddie in case both go down. Obviously, we need to make at least one significant tackle addition to go with them (and/or a significant guard addition if we want to start AVT at OT).
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2023, 12:53:32 PM
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2023, 02:33:55 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230116/280039a913db3b96a48e6967158a2f63.jpg)
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 04:11:07 PM
Cimini:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230116/280039a913db3b96a48e6967158a2f63.jpg)
Is this the third or fourth year in a row the entire OLine has been a game of musical chairs.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 17, 2023, 07:31:46 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 21, 2023, 02:09:26 PM
-Did Herbig play well enough to be at least penciled in as a starter if we re-sign him?
-Medical condition aside, same question for Max Mitchell.
-AT FULL HEALTH, who, of the guys that played along the line this year at any point, would be someone you'd be OK with being a starter again this year assuming we already have them under contract or could sign them back? Tomlinson probably will start based at least partially on what we are paying him to be here. Again, not necessarily who you prefer to start, but if they ended up being the starter, you wouldn't pitch a fit about it.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 21, 2023, 02:13:44 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 21, 2023, 02:14:22 PM
AT FULL HEALTH, who, of the guys that played along the line this year at any point, would be someone you'd be OK with being a starter again this year assuming we already have them under contract or could sign them back?
Does Mekhi Becton count?
Post by: Johnny English on February 21, 2023, 02:20:42 PM
Couple of questions for people more knowledgeable than myself.
-Did Herbig play well enough to be at least penciled in as a starter if we re-sign him?
-Medical condition aside, same question for Max Mitchell.
-AT FULL HEALTH, who, of the guys that played along the line this year at any point, would be someone you'd be OK with being a starter again this year assuming we already have them under contract or could sign them back? Tomlinson probably will start based at least partially on what we are paying him to be here. Again, not necessarily who you prefer to start, but if they ended up being the starter, you wouldn't pitch a fit about it.
I don't know that I'd claim to be more knowledgeable than you, but I'm probably passing on Herbig as a starter. He did well for 4 or 5 games but then fell off quite badly. We're not likely to have five APs on the line this year and we can probably do worse than him, but I'd still be looking for an upgrade. I think he's probably a better backup G than Feeney but he doesn't have the versatility to play C, which is a big bonus for our mulletheaded hero.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 21, 2023, 02:22:50 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 21, 2023, 02:23:17 PM
Does Mekhi Becton count?
Yes. Basically, if they are healthy, would you be OK with them starting? Maybe not ideal, but acceptable starter.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 21, 2023, 02:26:01 PM
- Tomlinson bounces back to average at one guard spot
- Becton/Mitchell fills one OT spot
- AVT plays guard or tackle, whichever we need more (I prefer to sign another tackle and start him off at guard)
- Add a new guard and a new center (or bring back McGovern).
We need to find one bona fide starter on the OL that we can count on, no matter what position that is, and no matter if that's FA or draft. If we do that and get one more replacement-level starter somewhere, that might be enough to be competent. Herbig/McGovern could maybe fill that role. AVT's excellence can make up for some other issues, as long as there are no glaring weak links.
And the Jets know more about Becton and Mitchell's health than we do. If there are bigger questions about either than we know publicly, then we need even more.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 21, 2023, 02:31:12 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 21, 2023, 02:34:34 PM
In a perfect world...
- Tomlinson bounces back to average at one guard spot
- Becton/Mitchell fills one OT spot
- AVT plays guard or tackle, whichever we need more (I prefer to sign another tackle and start him off at guard)
- Add a new guard and a new center (or bring back McGovern).
We need to find one bona fide starter on the OL that we can count on, no matter what position that is, and no matter if that's FA or draft. If we do that and get one more replacement-level starter somewhere, that might be enough to be competent. Herbig/McGovern could maybe fill that role. AVT's excellence can make up for some other issues, as long as there are no glaring weak links.
And the Jets know more about Becton and Mitchell's health than we do. If there are bigger questions about either than we know publicly, then we need even more.
I think I'd be fine with McGovernator returning. We could upgrade him, but he was OK.
I'd be happy with Becton starting and Mitchell as the backup at RT when Becton dies on the field again, assuming Mitchell doesn't have some sort of career-ending problem.
We need a left tackle and a swing tackle. I doubt Fant returns, and I'm assuming Brown retires. it would be ideal to get this with the first rounder assuming we don't ship that to GB.
Leave AVT at guard. I think his flexibility should be be used as an added bonus, not a necessity. In other words, move him to tackle only if someone gets injured and there's no decent backup. I'd rather have him as an elite guard, not a decent tackle.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 21, 2023, 02:35:23 PM
Re-signing Herbig as depth is a decent move in the absence of a better prospect. Penciling him in as a starter from day one is a strategy failure.
I know he played really well for the first few games, but I don't know if he fell off due to injury or just suckage. He was definitely starter quality for several games.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 21, 2023, 02:36:54 PM
I know he played really well for the first few games, but I don't know if he fell off due to injury or just suckage. He was definitely starter quality for several games.
He was starter quality for the Jets, not the NFL. He's a long term solution as a starter.
Post by: reuben on February 21, 2023, 04:03:56 PM
-Did Herbig play well enough to be at least penciled in as a starter if we re-sign him?
Wasn't Herbig injured too? He just played through it
There was a three to four game stretch where Nate Herbig was absolutely brilliant. I think Heis has it right: he got hurt, played through it, and his quality of play dropped precipitously. There was also a game of musical toilets off his right hip during that time.
In a perfect world, I want Herbig to compete with Tomlinson and my money's on Herbig. But he's also a free agent, and if he played well enough for starter money, then we can't afford both his and Laken's contracts if one of them is warming the bench.
It's all going to come down to how much money he commands in free agency. The kid's only 24 and he flashed, big time. Would really like to have him back, would absolutely hate if he went elsewhere and turned into a stud. Like maximum hate. I'd rather see Zach turn into a star elsewhere.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 21, 2023, 04:17:43 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2023, 11:44:30 AM
Quote
DWAZ73- Douglas says #Jets hold Duane Brown “in very high regard” after playing with the shoulder injury he had - saying he doesn’t think there’s any documented case of any tackle previously doing so.
No discussions yet, but sounds as though they’d consider bringing Brown back.
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2023, 12:09:04 PM
Even though I'm OK with us taking a tackle at 13 I'd really rather not have to. If you actually believe this team is opening a championship window then we shouldn't be spending high picks on positions that should theoretically be addressed with the existing roster. Of course Becton's health is the big gamble.
Post by: Johnny English on February 28, 2023, 12:13:28 PM
If we go into next year at tackle with Brown, Becton, and AVT in case of emergency... that's not the worst thing.
Even though I'm OK with us taking a tackle at 13 I'd really rather not have to. If you actually believe this team is opening a championship window then we shouldn't be spending high picks on positions that should theoretically be addressed with the existing roster. Of course Becton's health is the big gamble.
It's not unheard of for linemen to play at a high level at his age - Whitworth retired at 40 and was still excellent, Jason Peters is still playing at 41 - so as long as his shoulder recovers properly I'm OK with it as well.
Post by: Laxin on February 28, 2023, 01:13:10 PM
If we go into next year at tackle with Brown, Becton, and AVT in case of emergency... that's not the worst thing.
Even though I'm OK with us taking a tackle at 13 I'd really rather not have to. If you actually believe this team is opening a championship window then we shouldn't be spending high picks on positions that should theoretically be addressed with the existing roster. Of course Becton's health is the big gamble.
Add in Mitchell and it's not the worst situation. I would still try and draft a tackle in the mid rounds as well though.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 28, 2023, 01:26:33 PM
If we go into next year at tackle with Brown, Becton, and AVT in case of emergency... that's not the worst thing.You need a significant addition somewhere on the OL. If you do it at tackle, then we can move on from Brown and have Becton and Mitchell compete for the other spot (or have insurance if either or both aren't healthy). If you do it at guard, we can kick AVT outside and do the same thing. Perhaps center might be the best spot for it.
Even though I'm OK with us taking a tackle at 13 I'd really rather not have to. If you actually believe this team is opening a championship window then we shouldn't be spending high picks on positions that should theoretically be addressed with the existing roster. Of course Becton's health is the big gamble.
I think we need at least one more impact offensive lineman. Maybe Becton can be that, but he's a giant question mark. AVT is a stud. Brown, Mitchell, Laken, McGovern and Herbig are all replacement-level guys. We can do better.
Post by: reuben on February 28, 2023, 04:52:58 PM
Even though I'm OK with us taking a tackle at 13 I'd really rather not have to. If you actually believe this team is opening a championship window then we shouldn't be spending high picks on positions that should theoretically be addressed with the existing roster. Of course Becton's health is the big gamble.
Ignoring holes that theoretically shouldn't be on your roster is a great way to avoid championship windows.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 28, 2023, 05:26:13 PM
If we go into next year at tackle with Brown, Becton, and AVT in case of emergency... that's not the worst thing.
Even though I'm OK with us taking a tackle at 13 I'd really rather not have to. If you actually believe this team is opening a championship window then we shouldn't be spending high picks on positions that should theoretically be addressed with the existing roster. Of course Becton's health is the big gamble.
I'd argue Brown could be another one as well.
Post by: Libero_2 on February 28, 2023, 05:27:16 PM
Ignoring holes that theoretically shouldn't be on your roster is a great way to avoid championship windows.
Which is why I want to sign an OT and draft a WR. There are real OT options in FA, granted not many, but there aren’t WRs out there
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2023, 05:31:52 PM
Ignoring holes that theoretically shouldn't be on your roster is a great way to avoid championship windows.The fact that we now have to address the biggest hole on the team (QB) in FA is why we have to make sure our remaining resources get used as efficiently as possible.
Taking an OT at the top of this draft isn't a bad decision but it's a conservative one.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2023, 06:15:05 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 28, 2023, 06:57:06 PM
The fact that we now have to address the biggest hole on the team (QB) in FA is why we have to make sure our remaining resources get used as efficiently as possible.
Taking an OT at the top of this draft isn't a bad decision but it's a conservative one.
Where else did you want to go with it, given what you know about the current draft prospects?
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2023, 06:58:03 PM
Where else did you want to go with it, given what you know about the current draft prospects?Punter.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 28, 2023, 06:58:56 PM
Punter.
Better trade up for him.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2023, 07:04:41 PM
Better trade up for him.All in babbie
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2023, 07:14:34 PM
Where else did you want to go with it, given what you know about the current draft prospects?I'm honestly not sure and it's hard to say before FA.
Post by: Cane on February 28, 2023, 11:28:01 PM
If we go into next year at tackle with Brown, Becton, and AVT in case of emergency... that's not the worst thing.We have the possibility of a solid slate of tackles, but we also could easily be in a really bad spot considering all three of our top tackles have some sort of significant health question mark. That pick is where we’ll get the best value and we need to find a way to solidify our group up front. If we don’t get a legit starting option we could find ourselves exactly where we were last year, hoping for guys to play above their heads.
Even though I'm OK with us taking a tackle at 13 I'd really rather not have to. If you actually believe this team is opening a championship window then we shouldn't be spending high picks on positions that should theoretically be addressed with the existing roster. Of course Becton's health is the big gamble.
Get a tackle at 13, hope for a Becton/Pick pairing, Mitchell rides as the swing tackle and AVT as emergency. If Mekhi looks terrible, we still have the chance to keep Duane. we have the possibility of a new center and Laken was mid, so I’m looking to keep AVT inside if we can.
Post by: Badger on March 01, 2023, 05:59:55 AM
We have the possibility of a solid slate of tackles, but we also could easily be in a really bad spot considering all three of our top tackles have some sort of significant health question mark. That pick is where we’ll get the best value and we need to find a way to solidify our group up front. If we don’t get a legit starting option we could find ourselves exactly where we were last year, hoping for guys to play above their heads.Can't really argue with this, especially if the BPA is a tackle.
Get a tackle at 13, hope for a Becton/Pick pairing, Mitchell rides as the swing tackle and AVT as emergency. If Mekhi looks terrible, we still have the chance to keep Duane. we have the possibility of a new center and Laken was mid, so I’m looking to keep AVT inside if we can.
My position is not so much "I don't think we should do it" as it is "I wish we didn't have to consider it."
Post by: MBGreen on March 01, 2023, 11:26:36 AM
*paging Joe Douglas*
Post by: Libero_2 on March 01, 2023, 03:10:41 PM
https://twitter.com/uSTADIUM/status/1630971951056318464?t=bdIr1ucjkCF_S0xTXdkNcg&s=19
*paging Joe Douglas*
Now this is the news I want. Sign McGlinchey, if the preferred OT isn’t sitting there at 13, go WR and let Brown/Becton/Mitchell/Rookie battle it out for the LT job.
Post by: MBGreen on March 01, 2023, 03:17:06 PM
Now this is the news I want. Sign McGlinchey, if the preferred OT isn’t sitting there at 13, go WR and let Brown/Becton/Mitchell/Rookie battle it out for the LT job.Or Brian Branch at 13
Post by: Libero_2 on March 01, 2023, 06:41:30 PM
Or Brian Branch at 13
I just can’t see Douglas doing that at 13. The way he’s valued positions so far, tells me unless it’s a generational S he won’t take him early on. I don’t think Branch is generational
Post by: MBGreen on March 01, 2023, 07:23:14 PM
I just can’t see Douglas doing that at 13. The way he’s valued positions so far, tells me unless it’s a generational S he won’t take him early on. I don’t think Branch is generationalHe can play anywhere in the secondary...his versatility and his elite skillset is tantalizing.
Post by: Cane on March 01, 2023, 10:37:02 PM
He can play anywhere in the secondary...his versatility and his elite skillset is tantalizing.Can play, but when you have a 1-2-3 at corner including a now established nickel player, you’d be better served finding pure safeties.
Post by: Coach K on March 02, 2023, 09:38:23 AM
Can play, but when you have a 1-2-3 at corner including a now established nickel player, you’d be better served finding pure safeties.If the top 3 OTs are gone and there's no good trade downs on the table I'd still take him
We're thin at S and an injury away to sauce or Reed from being thin at what we were getting away with last yr
Od say we were uncharacteristically healthy on Defense last yr tbh
That and the backups qbs were a large part of the D ranking . I think were top 10 this yr but not top 3
But ideally if 3 OTs are gone you trade downnand grab a C then a OT rd 2
Post by: MBGreen on March 02, 2023, 09:54:54 AM
Can play, but when you have a 1-2-3 at corner including a now established nickel player, you’d be better served finding pure safeties.https://twitter.com/uSTADIUM/status/1631316998708686848?t=MwB9LZT0tk9At69yXE0W6Q&s=19
Post by: MBGreen on March 02, 2023, 10:21:43 AM
Can play, but when you have a 1-2-3 at corner including a now established nickel player, you’d be better served finding pure safeties.Also:
https://twitter.com/antwanstaley/status/1631328419186188290?t=5DU9gAzTk8LhdqVcLEWzRA&s=19
Post by: Heismanberg on March 02, 2023, 11:00:22 AM
Can play, but when you have a 1-2-3 at corner including a now established nickel player, you’d be better served finding pure safeties.
Branch is better than Hellams and Battle (and they are both solid prospects too). Saban's way to combat the Air Raid concepts that have taken over college football is to put an elite player in the Star position. He used Patrick Surtain II in that spot some too.
He gives you coverage disguise versatility because he can line up at free, strong, slot, or even linebacker. You can play 4-2-5 with him and not lose any run support you'd typically see when you take a linebacker off the field.
People might be having some deja vu with Jamal Adams, but Branch has much better ball skills.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 02, 2023, 11:04:15 AM
Value is the question here. Because you can get a scheme versatile heavy hitter like Sydney Brown a round (or maybe even two) later and go for a premium position at 13.
Post by: MBGreen on March 02, 2023, 11:55:41 AM
Branch is better than Hellams and Battle (and they are both solid prospects too). Saban's way to combat the Air Raid concepts that have taken over college football is to put an elite player in the Star position. He used Patrick Surtain II in that spot some too.Branch is being compared to Minkah Fitzpatrick. No tears will be shed on my face if we select him.
He gives you coverage disguise versatility because he can line up at free, strong, slot, or even linebacker. You can play 4-2-5 with him and not lose any run support you'd typically see when you take a linebacker off the field.
People might be having some deja vu with Jamal Adams, but Branch has much better ball skills.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 02, 2023, 12:20:37 PM
Branch is being compared to Minkah Fitzpatrick. No tears will be shed on my face if we select him.
a player that Saban had a hard time replacing until Branch showed up
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 02, 2023, 02:41:20 PM
That said, we could really use that versatile chess piece in the back end on defense who can create turnovers, and we need a safety.
When Saleh came here, the narrative was that everything was built around the pass rush. Last year, he showed he could also build things around a strong CB group. So if we take Branch at 13, I trust Saleh and company to put him in the right spot defensively. But I do worry if we end up firing Saleh after the season, the pick may lose some value.
Post by: Coach K on March 02, 2023, 02:45:51 PM
Yes we need branch more than people think
People are gonna be butthurt when we lose one of Sauce or Reed during the season and Carter is getting dogwalked outside lol
Or when Ashton Davis and will parks get exposed in a 17 game season lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 02, 2023, 02:46:45 PM
We have Ashtyn Davis and what will parks aside from WhiteheadOh we badly need a safety. I just don't know if that should be how we use the 13th pick.
Yes we need branch more than people think
People are gonna be butthurt when we lose one of Sauce or Reed during the season and Carter is getting dogwalked outside lol
Or when Ashton Davis and will parks get exposed in a 17 game season lol
Tony Adams is the incumbent though. I think he would get the first crack if we don't make a significant addition.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 02, 2023, 02:48:24 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 14, 2023, 10:38:55 PM
LT: Duane Brown
LG: Laken Tomlinson
C: -
RG: Alijah Vera Tucker
RT: Mehki Becton
This is definitely a unit in turmoil as of right now. I was feeling lazy but took a low effort shot at the DC, bite me if something is wrong.
1) Can we count on Becton as a starter? That’s asking for trouble imo
2) Did we even want Duane Brown back? Might have been younger/cheaper options
3) Do we put AVT back at guard? Guy is a monster wherever he plays
4) Max Mitchell- will he be back healthy?
5) Gotta sign a C in FA - can’t risk this year on a rookie
Post by: Libero_2 on March 15, 2023, 05:08:32 AM
One guy to pencil in as a starter (probably Ben Jones)
One guy to replace Herbig
One guy to replace Feeney
Then we draft two
(Hopefully) starting OT in round one
Center to replace Jones ASAP. No one would be upset if it was before end of training camp this year.
I legitimately think the plan is Becton starts at LT, rookie at RT, Brown is backup LT, Mitchell backup RT. AVT is emergency T at either spot, but they want to keep him inside at Guard.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2023, 08:40:00 AM
I think we sign 2-3 OL honestly.
One guy to pencil in as a starter (probably Ben Jones)
One guy to replace Herbig
One guy to replace Feeney
Then we draft two
(Hopefully) starting OT in round one
Center to replace Jones ASAP. No one would be upset if it was before end of training camp this year.
I legitimately think the plan is Becton starts at LT, rookie at RT, Brown is backup LT, Mitchell backup RT. AVT is emergency T at either spot, but they want to keep him inside at Guard.
If our plan is for Mekhi Becton to start at left tackle, we are boned from the start
Post by: Libero_2 on March 15, 2023, 09:55:09 AM
If our plan is for Mekhi Becton to start at left tackle, we are boned from the start
Do you see a starting quality tackle left in FA to go grab? If we are keeping Brown and Becton and Mitchell, you can’t keep 5 OTs and 4-5 IOL guys on your roster. So either we are trading someone away or we are adding one piece either in draft or FA. I don’t see a starter left in FA. I don’t see a Becton trade as likely. So I suspect it’s Brown Vs Becton for one spot and rookie Vs loser for the other.
I don’t see another even semi-realistic path. Do you see something I don’t?
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2023, 09:56:20 AM
Do you see a starting quality tackle left in FA to go grab? If we are keeping Brown and Becton and Mitchell, you can’t keep 5 OTs and 4-5 IOL guys on your roster. So either we are trading someone away or we are adding one piece either in draft or FA. I don’t see a starter left in FA. I don’t see a Becton trade as likely. So I suspect it’s Brown Vs Becton for one spot and rookie Vs loser for the other.
I don’t see another even semi-realistic path. Do you see something I don’t?
Duane Brown is not coming back for another season to sit on the bench. He's starting.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2023, 10:00:55 AM
Duane Brown is not coming back for another season to sit on the bench. He's starting.
Was he any good this year? Felt like he barely played
Post by: Libero_2 on March 15, 2023, 10:01:24 AM
Duane Brown is not coming back for another season to sit on the bench. He's starting.
I expect so too. But if Becton beats him out, I won’t be shedding any tears.
Still hoping we get our hands on Wright in the draft to give us a tackle with an actual future here.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2023, 10:02:19 AM
Was he any good this year? Felt like he barely played
He was basically playing with one arm. He was really good in the run game at times.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2023, 10:10:01 AM
Post by: Badger on March 15, 2023, 10:12:19 AM
Was he any good this year? Felt like he barely playedHe was not a liability.
Post by: Coach K on March 15, 2023, 10:29:12 AM
Was he any good this year? Felt like he barely playedThe fact he did what he did at his age was impressive
If healthy he can be decent at pass pro and great in the run game
There were a few breece hall big runs he was leas blocking 2jd level and beyond
Hope we can get that a yr later without a bum shoulder
Post by: delavan on March 15, 2023, 10:34:53 AM
The current NYJ OL is a collection of question marks at best. Objectively speaking, the New York Jets (pre-draft) offensive line is trash.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 15, 2023, 10:50:54 AM
LT: Duane Brown
LG: Laken Tomlinson
C: TBD
RG: Alijah Vera-Tucker
RT: Mekhi Becton/Max Mitchell
We need to sign/trade for a starting-caliber center and then draft at least two OL.
Post by: Johnny English on March 15, 2023, 11:03:46 AM
Post by: Badger on March 15, 2023, 11:04:40 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2023, 11:14:14 AM
If you pretend everyone will be healthy and motivated this season then we really only have one question mark.
And that question is how many years do we commit to Chuma Edoga for. Don’t want to
Lose him after only 6 or 7 seasons
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 15, 2023, 11:29:26 AM
Brown, Becton and Mitchell has some blowup potential at tackle if that is what we go with. AVT is a fine backup plan, but I think we still need to add 2 quality linemen to the mix. We need a starting center, and one more guy at OT or OG that can compete for a job if injuries happen.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 27, 2023, 11:41:04 PM
Offensive Line Depth Chart
LT: Duane Brown
LG: Laken Tomlinson
C: -
RG: Alijah Vera Tucker
RT: Mehki Becton
This is definitely a unit in turmoil as of right now. I was feeling lazy but took a low effort shot at the DC, bite me if something is wrong.
1) Can we count on Becton as a starter? That’s asking for trouble imo
2) Did we even want Duane Brown back? Might have been younger/cheaper options
3) Do we put AVT back at guard? Guy is a monster wherever he plays
4) Max Mitchell- will he be back healthy?
5) Gotta sign a C in FA - can’t risk this year on a rookie
LT: Duane Brown
LG: Laken Tomlinson
C: Connor McGovern
RG: Alijah Vera Tucker
RT: Mehki Becton
Interior is passable, OT will derail our season.
Absolutley freaking unacceptable to go into a year where people think we have a shot to win a SB with a 40 year old and a guy that’s exploded his knee 2 years in a row. We’re really asking for it.
Post by: Jumbo on April 27, 2023, 11:42:18 PM
LT: Alijah Vera Tucker
LG: Wes Schweitzer
C: Chris Glaser
RG: Jeremy Ruckert
RT: Nick Bawden
Post by: Heismanberg on April 27, 2023, 11:43:15 PM
Starting OL week 12
LT: Alijah Vera Tucker
LG: Wes Schweitzer
C: Chris Glaser
RG: Jeremy Ruckert
RT: Nick Bawden
Bawden is a better fit at guard than Ruckert
Post by: Coach K on April 28, 2023, 05:32:02 AM
LT: Duane BrownCouldn't agree more .
LG: Laken Tomlinson
C: Connor McGovern
RG: Alijah Vera Tucker
RT: Mehki Becton
Interior is passable, OT will derail our season.
Absolutley freaking unacceptable to go into a year where people think we have a shot to win a SB with a 40 year old and a guy that’s exploded his knee 2 years in a row. We’re really asking for it.
Bergeron better be there at 43 . I'd consider moving up for him tbh
Wait till we trade down with only a couple good OL on the board
Then I can change my avatar lol
Post by: Coach K on April 28, 2023, 05:33:55 AM
If you pretend everyone will be healthy and motivated this season then we really only have one question mark.We're gonna have to pretend Rodgers isn't on his back more than an only fans girl
Post by: loyaljetsfan on April 28, 2023, 07:35:49 AM
Couldn't agree more .
Bergeron better be there at 43 . I'd consider moving up for him tbh
Wait till we trade down with only a couple good OL on the board
Then I can change my avatar lol
At this point I think addressing OL at 43 is my ideal outcome...which is why I am mentally preparing for us to take another LB. Trenton Simpson anyone?
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2023, 07:53:39 AM
At this point I think addressing OL at 43 is my ideal outcome...which is why I am mentally preparing for us to take another LB. Trenton Simpson anyone?
Daiyan Henley could be the pick too
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 28, 2023, 07:57:25 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2023, 07:59:35 AM
As soon as Wright and Skoronski flew off the board, we should have persuaded the Lions to trade us 12. It shouldn't have cost much and they could have easily gotten Gibbs at 15. Both teams fucked up last night.
We don't know if Douglas tried to move up or down from 15 last night.
What we do know is that we have very little ammo to move up.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 28, 2023, 08:04:20 AM
We don't know if Douglas tried to move up or down from 15 last night.
What we do know is that we have very little ammo to move up.
You're right, we don't know (wish I did). The Lions have three 2nd round picks. We could have easily given them our 4th and swapped picks in the 2nd to make it work.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 28, 2023, 08:24:46 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2023, 08:28:14 AM
Another reason why it was imperative that we secure our left tackle of the future in this draft, how the freak are we going to fill that position next year with Brown and Becton likely gone and no 1st round pick?
They just need to take the best interior player tonight and move AVT to tackle. It's the easiest way to improve the starting offensive line.
Maybe we'll end up with Bergeron. He can play tackle and guard.
Post by: ScotlandJet on April 28, 2023, 08:28:44 AM
As soon as Wright and Skoronski flew off the board, we should have persuaded the Lions to give us 12. It shouldn't have cost much and they could have easily gotten Gibbs at 15. Both teams fucked up last night.
Great call. I was crossing names off on my crib sheet and thought we had to deal.
We screwed up.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 28, 2023, 08:32:25 AM
They just need to take the best interior player tonight and move AVT to tackle. It's the easiest way to improve the starting offensive line.
Maybe we'll end up with Bergeron. He can play tackle and guard.
It's terrible that it's come to this.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2023, 08:34:44 AM
It's terrible that it's come to this.
It all goes back to missing on Mekhi Becton. If he's able to stay healthy, everything changes. Huge risk there. Douglas swung on him and it just didn't work.
Max Mitchell also looked decent last season. We have options at tackle but we definitely need stability and hopefully we can find an OL starter tonight at 43.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 28, 2023, 08:35:28 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 28, 2023, 08:37:49 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2023, 08:42:44 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2023, 10:01:04 AM
As soon as Wright and Skoronski flew off the board, we should have persuaded the Lions to give us 12. It shouldn't have cost much and they could have easily gotten Gibbs at 15. Both teams fucked up last night.Lions wanted Gibbs. No way they would have wanted to trade below the Patriots. Patriots were heavily rumored to like Gibbs.
Also, we don't have many picks. Based on the Jimmy Johnson chart, we could have given up our 4 and both 5's, and it still wouldn't be enough to move up 3 spots.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2023, 10:24:06 AM
Also, we don't have many picks. Based on the Jimmy Johnson chart, we could have given up our 4 and both 5's, and it still wouldn't be enough to move up 3 spots.
Yeah, we just don't have the flexibility to move up in this draft.
It'd make a ton of sense for us to move some veterans for mid-rounders today and tomorrow. We need to get cheaper and younger in some spots. We also need to keep building longterm depth.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2023, 10:44:52 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2023, 10:48:33 AM
When was the last time we traded a vet for a mid round pick during the draft? I honestly cannot remember us doing that.Feels like we typically do the opposite (trade the mid-round pick for a vet). But our roster usually sucks and has zero depth. Now we might actually have guys worth trading.
Huff seems like a guy who could be a trade option and have some value. Maybe Bryce Hall or Mims for like a 6th or 7th. Lawson and Davis are possible trade options. Obviously, Zach. Maybe Clemons if someone really likes him. And obviously Zach.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2023, 10:51:59 AM
Feels like we typically do the opposite (trade the mid-round pick for a vet). But our roster usually sucks and has zero depth. Now we might actually have guys worth trading.
Huff seems like a guy who could be a trade option and have some value. Maybe Bryce Hall or Mims for like a 6th or 7th. Lawson and Davis are possible trade options. Obviously, Zach. Maybe Clemons if someone really likes him. And obviously Zach.
LMAO, Joe Douglas talking about how sitting behind Aaron Rodgers for two seasons would really help Zach only to trade him two days later would be funnier than him promising to do everything he could to protect Sam Darnold and then doing absolutely not that.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 28, 2023, 11:30:46 AM
George Fant and Cam Fleming are out there at tackle as is Ben Jones on the interior as well. And not that he’s exactly a prized choice but Jonah Williams is available via trade. All 3 guys have shown capability as starters in the league. We have pivot options available to us. It’s just not guys with long term futures here which we all wanted to get settled.
My point is not “let’s pass on OL” again at 43, but if it happens, or we get sniped again or trade out etc, there are vet options out there to improve the quality of the line and it’s depth top to bottom.
Still it’s definitely Bergeron Szn right now
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2023, 11:32:48 AM
I also think it’s important to remember there are OL out there that can be signed as well.And you could argue that any of those veterans would be better than any rookie offensive lineman in 2023.
George Fant and Cam Fleming are out there at tackle as is Ben Jones on the interior as well. And not that he’s exactly a prized choice but Jonah Williams is available via trade. All 3 guys have shown capability as starters in the league. We have pivot options available to us. It’s just not guys with long term futures here which we all wanted to get settled.
My point is not “let’s pass on OL” again at 43, but if it happens, or we get sniped again or trade out etc, there are vet options out there to improve the quality of the line and it’s depth top to bottom.
Still it’s definitely Bergeron Szn right now
Post by: Coach K on April 28, 2023, 02:46:15 PM
Post by: Cane on April 28, 2023, 03:31:34 PM
If we go interior and kick AVT outside full time, there are a ton of good options.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2023, 04:46:07 PM
I think this draft is a perfect example of how that helps. We wanted an OT in round 1. None were there, so we didn't have to reach on one. Now we can either take a tier 2 OT or a tier 1 IOL and be fine either way IMO.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2023, 04:47:55 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2023, 05:03:12 PM
Bergeron is ideal because he fits into that "Best 5" role. Tackle or guard. Just get someone that can play.Cody Mauch incoming....
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2023, 05:10:58 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2023, 07:03:36 PM
Post by: Coach K on April 28, 2023, 07:10:22 PM
Bergeron is ideal because he fits into that "Best 5" role. Tackle or guard. Just get someone that can play.They took our boy 4 picke earlier lol
Oh well I love Tippman redemption song for JD lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2023, 07:11:21 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 28, 2023, 07:18:40 PM
Is Jones that much better of an OT than Tippmann is an IOL?
Broderick?
Today I’d say Tippman is the better player. But Jones is a freaky player who is young. If he figures it out, he’s going to pretty damn good.
In terms of talent, I don’t know that there is much of a gap. Positional importance? OT is probably 3 times as valuable as C, which is why he’s a second rounder instead of a first round gjy
Post by: Coach K on April 28, 2023, 09:44:36 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 28, 2023, 09:49:55 PM
This was like a bad fever dream I forgot existed . (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230429/4349ada2fb3769237985e9b9c6cddac2.jpg)
You're going first at the suicide call.
Post by: Jumbo on April 28, 2023, 09:51:25 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 28, 2023, 09:51:41 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 28, 2023, 09:52:07 PM
Jonotthan is still one of the top five butcherings of a regular name I've ever seen
I don’t think it’s worth than a student I’ve had
Jhonatann, which is pronounced Johnathan
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 28, 2023, 10:06:34 PM
Jonotthan is still one of the top five butcherings of a regular name I've ever seen
laynce nix
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2023, 10:16:29 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 28, 2023, 10:41:36 PM
This was like a bad fever dream I forgot existed . (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230429/4349ada2fb3769237985e9b9c6cddac2.jpg)
Man I miss Qvale
Post by: Badger on April 28, 2023, 10:42:21 PM
Man I miss Qvale#QuailMan
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 28, 2023, 10:43:10 PM
Post by: MBGreen on May 05, 2023, 01:04:35 PM
@antwanstaley
·
3m
Robert Saleh says Mekhi Becton looks good. Said the Jets will play the best five offensive linemen as there will be an open competition at right tackle and center
Post by: Badger on May 05, 2023, 01:46:20 PM
Antwan V. StaleyDuane Brown LT confirmed
@antwanstaley
·
3m
Robert Saleh says Mekhi Becton looks good. Said the Jets will play the best five offensive linemen as there will be an open competition at right tackle and center
Edit: everyone is saying Staley misquoted this so maybe not
Post by: Heismanberg on May 05, 2023, 02:24:58 PM
Edit: everyone is saying Staley misquoted this so maybe not
the zestiest beat writer
Post by: Libero_2 on May 05, 2023, 04:22:39 PM
Duane Brown LT confirmed
Edit: everyone is saying Staley misquoted this so maybe not
Watched the presser. Saleh basically said “we are gonna play the best 5. You can probably assume AVT is the best Right Guard, and with Lake (trails off…) so it’s basically going to be open at both tackles and at center. The best 5 will play”
Post by: Heismanberg on May 05, 2023, 04:28:35 PM
Post by: MBGreen on May 05, 2023, 07:07:31 PM
Sign Marcedes Lewis to help our tackles.Hes said he's going back to GB
Post by: reuben on May 30, 2023, 11:26:37 AM
Bodies Bodies Bodies
Post by: Libero_2 on May 30, 2023, 02:35:13 PM
Post by: insanity on May 30, 2023, 03:44:01 PM
RIP
Post by: Johnny English on May 30, 2023, 03:45:36 PM
Post by: delavan on June 01, 2023, 12:04:23 PM
TIL we had a lineman called Eric Smith.(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Yin_yang.svg/240px-Yin_yang.svg.png)
Duane Brown
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1663972951060799490?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Post by: Badger on June 01, 2023, 12:10:58 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on June 01, 2023, 03:18:56 PM
"I've got plenty left" followed by not sure about training camp felt a little contradictory.
It did start with the about about him recovering from rotator cuff surgery, and his comments were about being cleared by docs
Post by: reuben on June 10, 2023, 08:04:00 PM
Wish we could have gone with Herbig over Laken but it is what it is.
Post by: Heismanberg on June 10, 2023, 08:15:21 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on June 10, 2023, 08:57:56 PM
Herbig sucked too
More like LIESmanberg!
(J/k dude was an awful option as a long-term starter)
Post by: Libero_2 on June 11, 2023, 09:34:55 AM
Herbig sucked too
True but if you were going to have a guy who sucked, you’d rather be paying him 4 million instead of 20 million
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 13, 2023, 10:14:05 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 13, 2023, 11:18:43 AM
https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/status/1679501997236539392?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Yea that seems fair.
Post by: Libero_2 on July 13, 2023, 11:47:22 AM
Yea that seems fair.
If Becton is healthy, I think we outperform that ranking fairly easily. If he’s not, that weak link at RT probably seriously hurts us
Post by: Heismanberg on July 13, 2023, 11:48:02 AM
If Becton is healthy, I think we outperform that ranking fairly easily. If he’s not, that weak link at RT probably seriously hurts us
We just need to stay healthy. Rodgers will get the ball out quickly to help them out.
Post by: reuben on July 13, 2023, 02:14:34 PM
If Becton is healthy, I think we outperform that ranking fairly easily.
Mekhi Becton isn't lasting past his second Hard Knocks confessional. Dude's a chump.
Post by: Badger on July 13, 2023, 02:25:20 PM
Mekhi Becton isn't lasting past his second Hard Knocks confessional. Dude's a chump."I got hurt because they made me play right tackle"
Post by: reuben on July 13, 2023, 02:29:21 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 13, 2023, 03:24:41 PM
If Becton is healthy, I think we outperform that ranking fairly easily. If he’s not, that weak link at RT probably seriously hurts us
He's not the only one who wound up in the scrap heap. Becton, Brown, AVT, and Mitchell are all coming off or have played through major injuries last season. We also need Tomlinson to remember how to gord.
Post by: dcm1602 on July 19, 2023, 02:04:43 PM
Is there any scenario that we end up bringing him back?
Post by: Heismanberg on July 19, 2023, 02:12:18 PM
Is there any scenario that we end up bringing him back?
injury
Post by: Johnny English on July 19, 2023, 02:21:10 PM
Post by: delavan on July 19, 2023, 02:38:56 PM
I'm more curious as to why Dalton Risner is still a free agent.fwiw
https://youtu.be/8EYHhnm_u5M
Post by: Heismanberg on July 19, 2023, 03:11:03 PM
I'm more curious as to why Dalton Risner is still a free agent.
Hackett would've vouched for him by now if he was worth a damn
Post by: Jumbo on July 19, 2023, 04:03:40 PM
Hackett would've vouched for him by now if he was worth a damn
Yeah, we signed McGovern back for <$2M. Maybe Risner is demanding a lot more but I have to imagine if they looked at him as better there would at least be some indication that we contacted him.
Post by: reuben on July 22, 2023, 04:31:57 PM
The soon-to-be 38-year-old spent this offseason unsure if he would return for his 16th professional season but ultimately chose to play in 2023. He played most of the 2022 season with an injured shoulder, which could help explain the down year in blocking metrics. Brown will look to return to health in time to reprise his role at left tackle for the Jets. The team also bolstered their depth along the offensive line this offseason through the additions of veteran utility man Billy Turner and rookie center Joe Tippmann.
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 22, 2023, 04:42:52 PM
I'm more curious as to why Dalton Risner is still a free agent.
ESPN was reporting a month ago that he was supposed to sign with the Colts but that was the last that was mentioned for him.
So...injuries?
Post by: Johnny English on July 22, 2023, 06:28:23 PM
ESPN was reporting a month ago that he was supposed to sign with the Colts but that was the last that was mentioned for him.
So...injuries?
I don't think so, he's been pretty healthy his entire career. Only missed something like three games.
Post by: reuben on August 04, 2023, 04:21:37 PM
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687473093269135360 (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687473093269135360)
"Stuff allowed by Mitchell?" WTF, he could have continued moving his man if Colon wasn't in his way, moving in the wrong direction.
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687473295778607104 (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687473295778607104)
Not sure if this was supposed to go all the way outside, but that's a pretty good looking hole if he follows Colon.
(https://i.imgur.com/NtSJ5Z4.png)
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687472005203836928 (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687472005203836928)
Oof. Yeah, that's a tough one.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 04, 2023, 04:22:48 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 04, 2023, 04:24:57 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 04, 2023, 04:54:53 PM
Post by: reuben on August 04, 2023, 05:12:33 PM
I'm starting to wonder if the best OL configuration is AVT at tackle and Schweitzer at guard.
Another reason I was surprised Schweitzer didn't play. Sure, give all the center reps to Tippmann, but we don't even want to check WS at guard? He's that entrenched in the starting center battle?
It'll be interesting to see how things shake out this week.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 04, 2023, 05:28:54 PM
He's our key reserve if someone goes down.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 04, 2023, 05:44:56 PM
If Tippman doesn't win the center job, we need to let him compete at both guard and tackle.
He's our key reserve if someone goes down.
Since both Schweitzer and McGovern were held out of the game I have to believe that Tippmann is pretty far behind in the position battle.
Post by: Libero_2 on August 04, 2023, 06:15:13 PM
I want to see Mitchell next to AVT, I don't think you can fairly judge him playing next to Colon Blow.
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687473093269135360 (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687473093269135360)
"Stuff allowed by Mitchell?" WTF, he could have continued moving his man if Colon wasn't in his way, moving in the wrong direction.
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687473295778607104 (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687473295778607104)
Not sure if this was supposed to go all the way outside, but that's a pretty good looking hole if he follows Colon.
(https://i.imgur.com/NtSJ5Z4.png)
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687472005203836928 (https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1687472005203836928)
Oof. Yeah, that's a tough one.
First two seem like fine Mitchell plays. But that last rep is a real bad one. Got nothing but air
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 04, 2023, 06:36:23 PM
Since both Schweitzer and McGovern were held out of the game I have to believe that Tippmann is pretty far behind in the position battle.This may be true, but I don't look at his preseason usage that way. They may just want to get a rookie acclimated to the NFL.
The Jets' solution to the OL seems to be to throw a bunch of guys at it and hope that a competition will produce a good enough offensive line. It could absolutely work, and there's an interesting mix of veterans and young guys.
Ideally, Becton (or Warren) shows enough where they can be the starter at OT and we have insurance in case they go down. Or maybe they start the year with the veteran and then either Becton or Warren can take over midseason.
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 04, 2023, 07:08:07 PM
if mcgovern wins the job, fine, great. play tippmann at guard. play AVT at tackle. protect aaron at all costs like we're fvcking attack on titan
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 04, 2023, 10:38:16 PM
I'm starting to wonder if the best OL configuration is AVT at tackle
Probably. There was very little drop off last year when he flipped outside
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 04, 2023, 10:39:34 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 04, 2023, 11:06:09 PM
Probably. There was very little drop off last year when he flipped outside
Our entire offense disappeared when he went down.
Post by: reuben on August 08, 2023, 08:42:51 PM
Your name is dumb but best of luck.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 09, 2023, 03:36:47 AM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1689057139862409217 (https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1689057139862409217)Herrmans was the dude who kept fighting everyone in camp, namely Lawson
Your name is dumb but best of luck.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 12:13:11 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 10, 2023, 12:18:17 PM
Duane Brown
Laken Tomlinson
Joe Tippmann/Connor McGovern
Tippmann/McGovern/Schweitzer
AVT
Becton can't be trusted yet. Max Mitchell is not better than Brown or AVT at tackle.
Kicking AVT out to tackle doesn't weaken our interior much.
Post by: MBGreen on August 10, 2023, 12:21:44 PM
get this man some dudewipes
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 12:28:31 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 12:30:34 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 12:41:30 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 10, 2023, 12:55:07 PM
It would be pretty tragic/ironic if the OL is the downfall of this team that Douglas has constructed.
Despite Douglas' efforts it's been a major issue every season. Either he's missed on FAs/draft picks or the talent he brings gets injured. It's not all in his control but if it doesn't turn around this season it's going to be a hallmark of his tenure.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 01:01:35 PM
Despite Douglas' efforts it's been a major issue every season. Either he's missed on FAs/draft picks or the talent he brings gets injured. It's not all in his control but if it doesn't turn around this season it's going to be a hallmark of his tenure.
It all comes back to Becton. If he hadn't gotten overweight and injured (thanks GVR) and continued to look like the player he was as a rookie, Brown wouldn't be here and we could have given his money to a right tackle.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 10, 2023, 01:05:13 PM
It all comes back to Becton. If he hadn't gotten injured (thanks GVR) and continued to look like the player he was as a rookie, Brown wouldn't be here and we could have given his money to a right tackle.
We almost signed Orlando Brown Jr.
What's confusing about that is we made a run at him and then our only additions to the tackle room are Billy Turner and a 4th round pick.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 01:11:38 PM
We almost signed Orlando Brown Jr.
What's confusing about that is we made a run at him and then our only additions to the tackle room are Billy Turner and a 4th round pick.
He's probably the only tackle they viewed as an upgrade over what we have.
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2023, 01:16:24 PM
Billy Turner should, at best, be our fifth option at tackle behind Brown, Becton, Mitchell, and AVT so I'm not really concerned about him struggling in practice. We need confirmation that Brown will be dependable at LT this year.By last year's standard our 5th string OT will be starting by week 4.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 10, 2023, 01:17:31 PM
He's probably the only tackle they viewed as an upgrade over what we have.
Probably. The other two top OT free agents signed ridiculous deals.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 01:21:39 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 01:30:43 PM
Post by: MBGreen on August 10, 2023, 01:44:24 PM
IMO, Keith Carter was a milquetoast level hire. I hope he proves me wrong.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 10, 2023, 02:07:52 PM
Post by: reuben on August 10, 2023, 02:23:11 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 10, 2023, 02:29:29 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 03:31:44 PM
Post by: reuben on August 10, 2023, 04:00:33 PM
He deserves an opportunity to hone his craft at tackle before the bullets start flying. Becton's complained about it, Fant complained about it, Turner has complained about it, and we've largely discounted their complaints because they're kinda chumps, but the fact is switching positions on the line is a difficult process even for talented non-chumps. We owe our only quality offensive linemen the best chance to succeed. Turning to him on September 1st and saying, "Okay, we're gonna move you in front of Von Miller next week, get ready" is a pretty dick move.
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2023, 04:07:19 PM
They want Becton to play as many snaps as he can on Saturday.O/U 8.5
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 10, 2023, 04:07:30 PM
If we're playing AVT at tackle we should move him there and start getting him reps as soon as possible. I know some of us think he's just going to seamlessly transition, because he looked so good in limited action last season. Some of that success is obviously because of his talent, but some of it is undoubtedly because of what I'll call the null tape factor. We've had a lot of linemen come in and play well out of nowhere (Mitchell, for instance) but once opponents get enough tape on them and can properly study and game plan, their performances start to deteriorate. Quarterbacks have the same problem.
He deserves an opportunity to hone his craft at tackle before the bullets start flying. Becton's complained about it, Fant complained about it, Turner has complained about it, and we've largely discounted their complaints because they're kinda chumps, but the fact is switching positions on the line is a difficult process even for talented non-chumps. We owe our only quality offensive linemen the best chance to succeed. Turning to him on September 1st and saying, "Okay, we're gonna move you in front of Von Miller next week, get ready" is a pretty dick move.
Dick Move is Keith Carter's supervillain persona.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 10, 2023, 05:13:28 PM
Saturday will be a big deal for Becton and wherher or not he's gotten over his mental block with trusting his knee yet. He's been getting positive reviews for the little work he's done so far on practice so hopefully he can sustain that.
I don't like relying on it but if Becton can stay healthy and play a full game, which at this point are still two different things, than that'll be a huge boost for the line.
Duane Brown coming back would also help, but it remains to he seen how a 37 year old LT coming off of shoulder injury is going to perform.
Or maybe Mitchell and/or Turner finally click and there are no problems. I'm sure weirder excrement has happened.
Post by: dcm1602 on August 10, 2023, 05:32:46 PM
I'd rather go with the younger healthier cheaper option
Post by: Johnny English on August 10, 2023, 05:42:42 PM
If we're playing AVT at tackle we should move him there and start getting him reps as soon as possible. I know some of us think he's just going to seamlessly transition, because he looked so good in limited action last season. Some of that success is obviously because of his talent, but some of it is undoubtedly because of what I'll call the null tape factor. We've had a lot of linemen come in and play well out of nowhere (Mitchell, for instance) but once opponents get enough tape on them and can properly study and game plan, their performances start to deteriorate. Quarterbacks have the same problem.
I suspect some of it as well is that the rest of our line was so garbage that opposing defenses could just line up their best pass rush the other end from AVT and tee off. We all know it didn't take much to get Zach panicking in the pocket and flushing out, this season will be a very different proposition starting with pre-snap reads and adjustments, and then moving on to getting the ball out much faster. I know our line has been stacked with dross for a while but it hasn't been helped one bit by the guy standing behind it.
Post by: Johnny English on August 10, 2023, 05:43:36 PM
I'm just confused how were paying old coming off injury brown 10 million when Fant is on a 1 year 3m deal
I'd rather go with the younger healthier cheaper option
He hasn't been healthier this last year, and he's never been as good a player as Brown.
Jason Peters is still borderline elite at 41.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 10, 2023, 05:57:56 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 10, 2023, 07:08:58 PM
What does our best five look like?
Duane Brown
Laken Tomlinson
Joe Tippmann/Connor McGovern
Tippmann/McGovern/Schweitzer
AVT
Becton can't be trusted yet. Max Mitchell is not better than Brown or AVT at tackle.
Kicking AVT out to tackle doesn't weaken our interior much.
i've been banging this drum since we drafted tippman. our best configuration of 5 has him at guard and AVT at tackle.
i'm glad we are starting to get some hints that we will at least consider a configuration like this, but going into the summer pidgeon-holing guys at one spot (tippman at center, AVT at guard) when they can play other positions well, when OL has been as problematic an issue as it's been with us for years, when we have A-Rod at QB, and when we have as many injury concerns as we do at tackle (becton's legs, brown's shoulder, mitchell's blood) is/was just dumb
Post by: Heismanberg on August 10, 2023, 08:08:51 PM
I'm just confused how were paying old coming off injury brown 10 million when Fant is on a 1 year 3m deal
I'd rather go with the younger healthier cheaper option
George Fant is freaking terrible
Post by: reuben on August 10, 2023, 08:20:08 PM
I'm just confused how were paying old coming off injury brown 10 million when Fant is on a 1 year 3m deal
I'd rather go with the younger healthier cheaper option
Pure dcm.
We've got no one at tackle but Duane Brown, better cut him to save money!
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 10, 2023, 08:24:43 PM
George Fant is freaking terrible
Cap space wins trench fights.
Post by: dcm1602 on August 10, 2023, 10:03:04 PM
Pure dcm.
We've got no one at tackle but Duane Brown, better cut him to save money!
I'm not talking about cutting him now
I'm talking about another player who was on our team last year that appears healthier plus also happens to be younger and cheaper
Our OL is a freaking mess, id rather us have spent the extra 3 million to bring in Fant and keep Brown.
I feel like the success of the OL is going to be completley dependent on Rodgers covering up all their flaws
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 10, 2023, 10:16:25 PM
I'm not talking about cutting him now
I'm talking about another player who was on our team last year that appears healthier plus also happens to be younger and cheaper
Our OL is a freaking mess, id rather us have spent the extra 3 million to bring in Fant and keep Brown.
I feel like the success of the OL is going to be completley dependent on Rodgers covering up all their flaws
Did it cross your mind that the reason he’s on the Texans is because the Jets let him walk after deciding he wasn’t good enough to be on the roster?
Post by: MBGreen on August 10, 2023, 11:00:53 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 10, 2023, 11:11:32 PM
dcm is in midseason form....in August
Should we do extend Bam Knight?
Post by: dcm1602 on August 11, 2023, 04:38:32 AM
Did it cross your mind that the reason he’s on the Texans is because the Jets let him walk after deciding he wasn’t good enough to be on the roster?
Yes
It also crossed my mind that the reason that everyone is terrified about the OL, is because our tackles suck and can't stay healthy
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 11, 2023, 07:04:54 AM
Yes
It also crossed my mind that the reason that everyone is terrified about the OL, is because our tackles suck and can't stay healthy
So you desperately want to sign a tackle who sucked last year and couldn't stay healthy?
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 11, 2023, 07:14:19 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 11, 2023, 07:26:09 AM
this girl right now on get up is saying the jets should go after zack martin lolDepending on the cost, a move like that may be the best move we can make. All depends on the cost.
Post by: MBGreen on August 11, 2023, 07:42:50 AM
Depending on the cost, a move like that may be the best move we can make. All depends on the cost.
Zack Martin is a gord. It only makes sense if we move AVT to RT permanently.
Also, I'd rather use the Aaron Rodgers savings on a move like this, than on Dalvin Cook.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 11, 2023, 07:49:44 AM
Zack Martin is a gord. It only makes sense if we move AVT to RT permanently.That's my point. If there is any position on the field that we should be looking to shore up, it should be offensive line. Obviously, a tackle would be preferred.
Also, I'd rather use the Aaron Rodgers savings on a move like this, than on Dalvin Cook.
Post by: MBGreen on August 11, 2023, 07:53:52 AM
That's my point. If there is any position on the field that we should be looking to shore up, it should be offensive line. Obviously, a tackle would be preferred.
we're a little short on draft pick currency (no 1st rounder next year), the Cowboys won't give him away. I think this is a pipe dream.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 11, 2023, 08:51:30 AM
Also, I'd rather use the Aaron Rodgers savings on a move like this, than on Dalvin Cook.
I don't think we'll sign Cook unless the staff completely sours on Michael Carter (which could definitely happen).
All camp reports are saying Bam Knight is clearly the best back so far.
Post by: MBGreen on August 11, 2023, 08:55:47 AM
I don't think we'll sign Cook unless the staff completely sours on Michael Carter (which could definitely happen).
All camp reports are saying Bam Knight is clearly the best back so far.
Douglas will get his price or we'll pass. I'm fine with that. Cook is a luxury signing.
Apparently they're about 3 mil apart, that price will come down the closer we get to Sept.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 11, 2023, 09:00:49 AM
Izzy will probably get the bulk of the work again, but he's safe. Carter and Knight need to show up.
Post by: Jumbo on August 11, 2023, 09:44:55 AM
we're a little short on draft pick currency (no 1st rounder next year), the Cowboys won't give him away. I think this is a pipe dream.
Maybe they'll take Ashtyn Davis and Laken Tomlinson (to make the money match)
Post by: MBGreen on August 11, 2023, 09:46:37 AM
Maybe they'll take Ashtyn Davis and Laken Tomlinson (to make the money match)
haha
Post by: delavan on August 11, 2023, 10:32:15 AM
Yes'cept Fant can't
It also crossed my mind that the reason that everyone is terrified about the OL, is because our tackles suck and can't stay healthy
Douglas will get his price or we'll pass. I'm fine with that. Cook is a luxury signing.fwiw, from this geekcast
Apparently they're about 3 mil apart, that price will come down the closer we get to Sept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfHeCZa0L5I
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 11, 2023, 10:35:31 AM
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2023, 10:57:48 AM
'cept Fant can'tSmokescreen
fwiw, from this geekcast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfHeCZa0L5I
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 12, 2023, 02:21:18 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 12, 2023, 02:26:20 PM
Becton's chances of winning a starting job probably hangs in the balance today.I don't think it's the worst thing if he doesn't start Week 1. It's very hard to trust him for 20-21 games if that's what the goal is. If we take it slowly with Becton, maybe he can take the job midseason if Mitchell or Brown isn't excelling. It might honestly be better for him to naturally get the job at some point midseason, either through injury or performance.
He's the most important guy in the preseason. Maybe you could argue Zach, but that's more long-term, and he isn't under contract for the long-term. McDonald would be nice to see dominate, too.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 12, 2023, 02:42:43 PM
Turner
Tomlinson
McGovern
Schweitzer
Mitchell
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 12, 2023, 03:41:54 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 12, 2023, 10:43:57 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 12, 2023, 11:06:49 PM
Looks like it's a pseudo-competition between Schweitzer and Mitchell. AVT will fill in at whichever position is necessary.
I'm still trying to figure out if you meant McGovern instead of Mitchell here.
Post by: MBGreen on August 13, 2023, 07:18:59 AM
If Tippmann continues to dominate throughout the preseason, he needs to start.He will...or dcm will cut him
Post by: MBGreen on August 13, 2023, 08:51:20 AM
Post by: reuben on August 13, 2023, 03:28:41 PM
His block on the screen at 0:38 is sexy as freak. McGovern can't make that play.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 13, 2023, 03:36:58 PM
I'm still trying to figure out if you meant McGovern instead of Mitchell here.Mitchell. If Schweitzer is better at RG than Mitchell is at RT, AVT swings outside. If Mitchell is better, AVT stays inside.
I think McGovern is likely to start either way. Tippman might take over midseason.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 13, 2023, 05:04:34 PM
Mitchell. If Schweitzer is better at RG than Mitchell is at RT, AVT swings outside. If Mitchell is better, AVT stays inside.
I think McGovern is likely to start either way. Tippman might take over midseason.
That's a weird way to phrase it, then.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 13, 2023, 11:16:15 PM
Dunno why it’s not listed on Football ref but Zach Martin can play RT and played it well when needed from what I recall
AVT is a better fit at OT imo though
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 13, 2023, 11:22:13 PM
This is full dcm mode but he would be the best OT we have (besides AVT)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 13, 2023, 11:23:37 PM
LT: AVT
LG: Laken
C: McGovern
RG: Tippman
RT: Martin
Profit.
Post by: Libero_2 on August 14, 2023, 04:29:35 AM
Post by: MBGreen on August 14, 2023, 01:17:48 PM
Hello darkness my old friend
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 14, 2023, 01:29:04 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 14, 2023, 02:22:39 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 14, 2023, 02:23:21 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 14, 2023, 02:26:00 PM
is that our best five?
Post by: delavan on August 14, 2023, 02:38:25 PM
https://twitter.com/CaliJets/status/1691058091583041536?t=Vhm0U8MbXSxwr4XYHcI-OA&s=19
Hello darkness my old friend
And Turner's supposedly been a turnstile in pass pro
https://jetsxfactor.com/2023/08/14/ny-jets-offensive-line-questions-piling/
"Turner has struggled mightily in pass protection, getting dominated by Jermaine Johnson and others in almost every practice. To put it simply, he does not look like a player who should be competing for a starting tackle position."
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 14, 2023, 02:39:43 PM
Duane Brown - Laken Tomlinson - Joe Tippmann - Connor McGovern - Alijah Vera-Tucker
is that our best five?
Probably, though I'm not sure who's better between McGovern and Schweitzer.
If Brown's back to at least his form from last year, that should be a solid line regardless.
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 14, 2023, 02:44:57 PM
Duane Brown - Laken Tomlinson - Joe Tippmann - Connor McGovern - Alijah Vera-TuckerEither that or Schweitzer instead of McGovern. I think Schweitzer gets first crack, and Tippmann takes over if one of them gets hurt or struggles.
is that our best five?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 14, 2023, 06:36:58 PM
Duane Brown - Laken Tomlinson - Joe Tippmann - Connor McGovern - Alijah Vera-Tucker
is that our best five?
It’s nitpicking but I would starting with McGovern at C unless Tippman has shown there’s no drop off with snapping/calling protections.
Post by: Laxin on August 14, 2023, 07:06:16 PM
I understand the qualifier of “when healthy” is a big one, but his quality of play has never really been an issue…
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 14, 2023, 07:10:52 PM
Does everyone here think that Becton is not one of the best 5 lineman when healthy?
I understand the qualifier of “when healthy” is a big one, but his quality of play has never really been an issue…
He’s our best OT (besides AVT) when healthy.
He needs to prove he’s back up to speed, fully healthy, and hasn’t lost a step due to injury.
It would also be nice if he was available at RT so we’re not shoehorned at certain positions
Post by: Heismanberg on August 14, 2023, 07:12:14 PM
but his quality of play has never really been an issue…
He's just barely played so there isn't much a sample size.
I'm not labeling him as the best anything until he proves he can play more than a handful of series without being completely gassed.
Duane Brown is ancient, but he's dependable and he played through a serious injury for us. I'll take him over Becton for now.
Post by: reuben on August 14, 2023, 07:37:28 PM
Does everyone here think that Becton is not one of the best 5 lineman when healthy?
I understand the qualifier of “when healthy” is a big one, but his quality of play has never really been an issue…
I think he's a very good run blocker and a below average pass blocker. For a rookie, that's great: the future was bright. But it's year four now. He's shown no ability to play on the right side - he's been vocal about not being physically able to do so in the past. He hasn't received any reps on that side all training camp. His play in preseason has demonstrated pretty steady run-blocking and below average pass-blocking, strictly at left tackle. He got smoked for a sack on Sunday against back-ups in almost exactly the same fashion that he got smoked for a sack against Carolina in 2021, it was uncanny. Anybody who watches that rep and says it's not on him, I don't know what the freak you're watching. Absolute dogshit rep from Becton, the kind that gets a quarterback destroyed.
So when you're talking about top five, you're really talking about if Becton starts at left tackle. There's no freaking way I want that man responsible for protecting Aaron Rodgers' blind side.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 14, 2023, 07:55:35 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 14, 2023, 08:09:57 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on August 14, 2023, 09:17:36 PM
I guess we don't like anyone on the ends.
To be fair, what have any of our OTs shown thus far to suggest they should be starting OTs on a team trying to win it all? We should be looking under any rock we come across trying to find a starting tackle. And even if we do, there’s a decent chance one of Turner, Becton or Mitchell ends up playing a decent chunk of time this year as I don’t trust Duane Brown to stay healthy for 20 games.
Post by: Badger on August 14, 2023, 09:42:24 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on August 14, 2023, 11:14:13 PM
Does everyone here think that Becton is not one of the best 5 lineman when healthy?What others have said.
I understand the qualifier of “when healthy” is a big one, but his quality of play has never really been an issue…
I think the goal should be to have Becton starting in December and January. Take it slowly. I don't trust him to play 20 games.
I think ideally you plan for him to take over after the bye week, or whenever both sides feel comfortable with him playing an entire game.
I wanted him to start, too, but everything you hear from Saleh and Becton is that the goals are way lower than that for now. So I'll take them at their word and try to spin it positively.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 15, 2023, 08:39:44 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 15, 2023, 09:31:47 AM
Becton will either get traded before roster cuts or he'll be a swing tackle for us
I really don't see a trade happening unless the FO thinks that he can't do anything for us this season or someone makes a ridiculous offer. There's enough roster of the roster ahead of and behind him right now that can go before his name comes up.
To be fair, what have any of our OTs shown thus far to suggest they should be starting OTs on a team trying to win it all? We should be looking under any rock we come across trying to find a starting tackle. And even if we do, there’s a decent chance one of Turner, Becton or Mitchell ends up playing a decent chunk of time this year as I don’t trust Duane Brown to stay healthy for 20 games.
I don't think there is a rock where starting caliber tackles are living under that isn't uncovered during the opening of the FA period. Not that I don't want the FO trying but the likelihood of it paying off isn't high.
Post by: Heismanberg on August 15, 2023, 10:32:42 AM
I really don't see a trade happening unless the FO thinks that he can't do anything for us this season or someone makes a ridiculous offer.
It could be similar to the Ereck Flowers situation.
It just hasn't worked out. You do the player a solid and get something back to help in the future.
Post by: MBGreen on August 15, 2023, 10:39:24 AM
Quote
Nick Faria
@Nick_Faria1720
·
35m
JFM blew through a run play. Made Billy Turner look silly at RT.
#Jets
that excrement about "billy turner being the lead dog for starting at RT" better be fake news.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 15, 2023, 11:34:27 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 15, 2023, 12:16:39 PM
https://x.com/zackblatt/status/1691485230593392640?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
He apparently has been dealing with this for a while so the coaching staff decided to give him the day off in the hopes that this would help clear up the issue.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 15, 2023, 12:17:40 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 15, 2023, 12:59:35 PM
Tippmann and McGovern are splitting 1st team reps now.
They say hope is a dangerous, dangerous little thing
Post by: reuben on August 15, 2023, 01:50:10 PM
Tippmann and McGovern are splitting 1st team reps now.
That's all I needed to hear. Tippmann's got the job.
Post by: delavan on August 15, 2023, 02:26:22 PM
To be fair, what have any of our OTs shown thus far to suggest they should be starting OTs on a team trying to win it all?*just spitballing*
We should be looking under any rock we come across trying to find a starting tackle.
Jackson Carman (Bengals)? Or JD gets his hands on a Delorean and lands 2009...
Post by: Libero_2 on August 15, 2023, 03:28:09 PM
I really don't see a trade happening unless the FO thinks that he can't do anything for us this season or someone makes a ridiculous offer. There's enough roster of the roster ahead of and behind him right now that can go before his name comes up.
I don't think there is a rock where starting caliber tackles are living under that isn't uncovered during the opening of the FA period. Not that I don't want the FO trying but the likelihood of it paying off isn't high.
Oh it’s highly unlikely we find one. But we have to keep looking until we do
Post by: Heismanberg on August 16, 2023, 10:09:36 AM
Tippmann is playing left guard today
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 16, 2023, 10:16:16 AM
Tomlinson not practicing
Tippmann is plying left guard today
He's not leaving that starting rotation.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 16, 2023, 10:58:18 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 16, 2023, 11:27:58 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 16, 2023, 11:41:39 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on August 16, 2023, 11:47:15 AM
Becton should start getting reps at RT tomorrow according to Saleh.
Rodgers is probably done with Max Mitchell.
Hopefully Brown is back next week. Becton vs. Turner for RT is probably the final battle. If they both suck, AVT to RT.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 16, 2023, 01:39:11 PM
Post by: Johnny English on August 16, 2023, 01:55:37 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 18, 2023, 07:23:59 AM
lol
Post by: MBGreen on August 18, 2023, 10:57:21 AM
ESPN- Jets QBs 2.3 seconds avg time to throw (shortest of any team)
lol
Joe Douglas should've handed Bill Callahan a blank check.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 18, 2023, 02:06:37 PM
ESPN- Jets QBs 2.3 seconds avg time to throw (shortest of any team)
lol
Is that shortest time to throw before being pressured? Context for a stat like this is very important.
Post by: Libero_2 on August 18, 2023, 04:33:35 PM
ESPN- Jets QBs 2.3 seconds avg time to throw (shortest of any team)
lol
Since when? Is this just for preseason? Because last year we all know Zach held the ball forever in games that mattered
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 19, 2023, 07:51:55 AM
^just preseason
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 19, 2023, 10:31:36 PM
Post by: delavan on August 19, 2023, 11:27:25 PM
Did even anyone notice Joe Tippmann coming off of the field? I hope it isn't that bad but the dude is 6'6" so that'll complicate even the lease severe ones.
https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/offensive-miscues-cost-jets-in-preseason-loss-to-bucs#
"Interior lineman Joe Tippmann, who started the game at left guard and later moved to center, suffered a knee injury according to Saleh, who was unsure of the severity."
.
Post by: reuben on August 20, 2023, 04:51:32 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 20, 2023, 05:10:42 PM
I definitely can't find the Tippmann injury. His last snap was on the 3rd-and-20 late in the second, doesn't seem like anything happened but he's out of frame late in the play. I'd bet he was pulled during halftime just as a precaution.
Adam Pankey hit him in the knee with a frozen Gatorade bottle on the sidelines.
Post by: MBGreen on August 21, 2023, 03:44:18 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on August 21, 2023, 04:54:56 PM
https://twitter.com/DMRussini/status/1693722705848140149?t=JY0aI-D0KtA41LsK2QeoqA&s=19
Fingers crossed he’s back tomorrow working his way into practices
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 22, 2023, 10:54:53 AM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 22, 2023, 11:00:48 AM
I would call the Cardinals about Josh Jones.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 22, 2023, 11:32:40 AM
Becton to start at RT with Tomlinson and AVT at guard against the Giants. Tippmann okay and expected to be available to start the season.
If he doesn’t get injured, he’ll be our starting LT week 1. Mark my words.
Possibly close, depending on how Saturday goes.
Anyone heard anything about Duane Brown?
Post by: Heismanberg on August 22, 2023, 11:40:35 AM
Anyone heard anything about Duane Brown?
We should know today
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 22, 2023, 12:31:28 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 22, 2023, 02:14:38 PM
Jason Peters
Post by: Andrew Ryan on August 22, 2023, 07:31:53 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 22, 2023, 07:34:26 PM
Duane Brown cleared to practice. Let’s ride.
Duane and Mekhi Show. LFG
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 22, 2023, 08:02:25 PM
Duane Brown cleared to practice. Let’s ride.
Will this affect our cap space
Post by: MBGreen on August 23, 2023, 10:50:35 AM
@RapSheet
·
6m
#Jets coach Robert Saleh announces that LT Duane Brown (shoulder) is off PUP and will practice today. A positive sign for Week 1.
let's ride
Post by: loyaljetsfan on August 23, 2023, 12:14:11 PM
Will this affect our cap space
Paging DCM....
Post by: reuben on August 27, 2023, 09:58:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HnsXebh.jpg)
Come on, Joe. Don't be Spencer Long 2.0 please.
Post by: d sw0rdz on August 27, 2023, 11:07:17 AM
66's snap accuracy
(https://i.imgur.com/HnsXebh.jpg)
Come on, Joe. Don't be Spencer Long 2.0 please.
don't worry. at the very least we will get high level guard play from him, which we are actually in need of. at the very least.
Post by: Libero_2 on August 27, 2023, 11:22:31 AM
don't worry. at the very least we will get high level guard play from him, which we are actually in need of. at the very least.
Given the awful snap accuracy this preseason I actually think he might end up as a guard as well. Nothing wrong with that. Just means we are likely to draft another center next year pretty high if JT isn’t a Center.
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 27, 2023, 11:46:35 AM
Post by: reuben on August 27, 2023, 11:54:44 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on August 27, 2023, 12:25:06 PM
I thought Rodgers was talking about Schweitzer when he complained about spiral snaps. But maybe it was Tippmann, and now he's struggling to unlearn his usual technique.
Wisonsin doesn’t run a lot of shotgun so this isn’t natural for him yet. Give it time and he’ll either get it or become a very large, very strong guard.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 08:49:37 AM
Duane Brown: 4 pressures, 1 hit
Mekhi Becton: 3 pressures
Alijah Vera-Tucker: 3 pressures, 1 hit
Laken Tomlinson: 1 pressure, 1 hit
Connor McGovern: 1 pressure, 1 hit
Post by: bojanglesman on September 12, 2023, 10:16:35 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 05:38:53 PM
@FieldYates
·
1h
The Bengals have released OT La’El Collins from PUP. He’s now a free agent.
get on the horn, JD.
Post by: reuben on September 12, 2023, 07:05:40 PM
Field Yates
@FieldYates
·
1h
The Bengals have released OT La’El Collins from PUP. He’s now a free agent.
get on the horn, JD.
I think he's still recovering.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 07:22:41 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 09:46:25 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 06:55:17 AM
32. Jets - 30%
31. Bengals - 30%
30. Patriots - 35%
…
3. Browns - 73%
2. Raiders - 75%
1. Chiefs - 78%
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 08:43:36 AM
(BUF/NYJ not shown bc no data yet)
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 13, 2023, 08:53:33 AM
Keith carter?
Post by: Badger on September 13, 2023, 09:01:28 AM
Whose idea was it to install the early cut blocks into the gameplan MondayDoubt the OL coach determines the game plan.
Keith carter?
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 09:04:28 AM
Whose idea was it to install the early cut blocks into the gameplan Monday
Keith carter?
It's a pretty normal practice in quick game passing.
If our tackles are getting negatively scored for throwing cuts (even when they whiff) the grading system is broken. The ball has to come out on time.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 09:34:56 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 09:37:30 AM
It's a pretty normal practice in quick game passing.
If our tackles are getting negatively scored for throwing cuts (even when they whiff) the grading system is broken. The ball has to come out on time.
By definition of PBWR a cut block would get graded negatively, so we would need to find out if there’s any nuance in the grading there.
Also this is assuming that no other teams use cut blocks or we’re using them at an unusually high rate.
Last thing I’ll say: the cut blocks by Brown on the injury and Becton a play or 2 before were not executed very well. Not gonna go back and watch tape but they barely, if at all, slowed their guys down.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 09:46:42 AM
Last thing I’ll say: the cut blocks by Brown on the injury
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F51YLCLbcAAter8?format=jpg&name=small)
The ball has to come out.
There is a clear window.
Post by: steves850 on September 13, 2023, 09:49:57 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F51YLCLbcAAter8?format=jpg&name=small)
The ball has to come out.
There is a clear window.
I think you can both be right. The cut block wasn't well executed, as it barely slowed the defender down and the ball needs to come out, there was a window and an open target.
Post by: Johnny English on September 13, 2023, 09:50:32 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/h9S9jFN/IMG-6905.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DWZWyfF)
I like that throwaway rate. One of Zach's biggest problems last year was hanging onto it and trying to extend plays, and getting sacked as a result. If he has learned to recognise when a play isn't going to work and just bail out, that's already a big improvement.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 09:53:58 AM
I think you can both be right. The cut block wasn't well executed, as it barely slowed the defender down and the ball needs to come out, there was a window and an open target.
It was an awful attempt by Brown and he was the weak link on offense all night, but Rodgers held on to the ball and doesn't even take a hit if he just throws it.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 09:55:43 AM
I like that throwaway rate. One of Zach's biggest problems last year was hanging onto it and trying to extend plays, and getting sacked as a result. If he has learned to recognise when a play isn't going to work and just bail out, that's already a big improvement.
He still did some really unnecessary stuff avoiding the rush and got lucky to get rid of the football a couple times.
The Bills were all over a lot of our screen attempts and that led to a couple of timing issues that led to penalties. Wilson handled those about as well as he could. Last year, he would've just thrown it no matter what.
Post by: Laxin on September 13, 2023, 10:06:43 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 10:09:13 AM
Honestly he looked like Zach holding onto the ball trying to run from the DE instead of taking the easy completion to GW
He supposedly didn't like those plays because it didn't allow him to improvise. You don't improvise in quick game.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 13, 2023, 10:11:08 AM
The problem for me is that his extended plays rarely lead to anything positive. He might show his athleticism getting out of the pocket to avoid a sack, but it so rarely leads to a positive play. Either he throws it away (neutral) or still gets sacked. It so rarely leads to us making a big play offensively, and if anything, he throws interceptions.
I didn't think last week was encouraging for Zach, but he was coming off the bench and had no first-team reps. I don't really recall Wilson ever having to come off the bench in a game either.
This is a tough week for the OL and Zach. I want to believe in Zach, but heading on the road against a team that just embarrassed the Giants is a difficult spot. Our OL should be better than the Giants, but that might not be enough.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 10:12:55 AM
I didn't think last week was encouraging for Zach
9/13 for 99 yards and a TD after the interception
That's encouraging
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 10:13:08 AM
It was an awful attempt by Brown and he was the weak link on offense all night, but Rodgers held on to the ball and doesn't even take a hit if he just throws it.
I’m fine giving Rodgers the majority share of the blame here. Just not gonna give Brown/Becton passes on shitty blocks just because they were cuts. Maybe those blocks don’t play to their strengths, idk
Becton’s was probably worse but I can’t find a clip of it
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 10:13:14 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F51YLCLbcAAter8?format=jpg&name=small)
The ball has to come out.
There is a clear window.
I’m out of ways to express how enraging this screen cap is.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 13, 2023, 10:23:04 AM
9/13 for 99 yards and a TD after the interceptionThe Jets' offensive plan last week was to not have Zach kill us. We ran the ball a ton, way more than any team that was trailing by double digits at halftime would normally run it.
That's encouraging
Zach averaged 3.6 air yards per attempt. It was all short passes and screens and things designed to make it easy on the QB. The Jets averaged the 3rd-most YAC per completion and the 2nd-fewest air yards in the NFL last week. Lazard, Breece and Cook made some nice plays after the catch to make the yardage numbers look respectable.
In Zach's defense, he struggled making accurate short passes last season, so at least he was more accurate there this week. And he also didn't kill us (outside the bad interception).
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 10:25:05 AM
Breece and Cook made some nice plays after the catch to make the yardage numbers look respectable.
That's how successful screens work, Mack.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 13, 2023, 10:26:12 AM
That's how successful screens work, Mack.Not all 9-13 for 99 yards are created equal is my point. It's a couple non-broken tackles away from 9-13 for 55 yards.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 10:31:13 AM
Not all 9-13 for 99 yards are created equal is my point. It's a couple non-broken tackles away from 9-13 for 55 yards.
But they did break the tackles...
And Wilson did buy time and find Lazard wide open for the YAC play
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 13, 2023, 10:34:59 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 10:42:24 AM
So why didnt rodgers just throw it
Plot development.
Post by: Badger on September 13, 2023, 10:50:52 AM
So why didnt rodgers just throw it
Plot development.Character building
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 12:13:03 PM
Character building
Fridged Rodgers for Zach.
Post by: reuben on September 13, 2023, 12:13:33 PM
So why didnt rodgers just throw it
I think Wilson was the third read on that play. He seems to start off looking at Lazard...
(https://i.imgur.com/nOUx2F4.jpg)
...then moves to the tight end....
(https://i.imgur.com/dnO7lfS.jpg)
And that front toe is pointed right at him (Conklin?), that's where he wanted to go.
If you're looking at your third read on a play where your tackle is cut-blocking, that's a fail on the quarterback. Maybe it's on the OC for designing a play where Garrett Wilson the third read, but that's a moot point.
I stand by my opinion that Duane Brown did an acceptable job on this play. You're not getting pancakes on a cut-block. By design, you're going to have a freeze frame where the OT is on his stomach and his man is rushing free. By design, the football should be going or gone in that freeze frame.
(https://i.imgur.com/sKa6kEB.jpg)
Two plays earlier. Tackles did their job, ball should be OUT.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 12:17:15 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 12:19:27 PM
Oh well hindsight...etc.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 13, 2023, 12:20:13 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 13, 2023, 12:24:09 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 13, 2023, 12:27:40 PM
Question for the savants: why would we instruct the tackles to cut block here rather than a regular stand up block?
In quick game, it keeps the arms/hands of the DL down.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 01:07:56 PM
In quick game, it keeps the arms/hands of the DL down.
So with that in mind, why does it look. Like it's happening on the off-side of the play? Wouldn't you want to cut block the first read(s)?
Post by: Johnny English on September 13, 2023, 01:51:31 PM
So with that in mind, why does it look. Like it's happening on the off-side of the play? Wouldn't you want to cut block the first read(s)?
Yeah, I see your point. If Rodgers' three reads were all downfield as previously suggested i.e. no lateral or screen pass option, why cut block a guy who's not anywhere near a passing lane and whose arms aren't going to be a factor?
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 02:12:09 PM
Yeah, I see your point. If Rodgers' three reads were all downfield as previously suggested i.e. no lateral or screen pass option, why cut block a guy who's not anywhere near a passing lane and whose arms aren't going to be a factor?
Right. If we're cut blocking on the left side of the OLine I would expect the first read or two to be on that side with the cut block serving to keep the DE/EDGE's hands down and the passing lane open. Instead on both cut block plays we see Rodgers make his first read on the opposite side of that block which to me makes no sense since the DE/EDGE is going to be around the cut block by the time Rodgers goes through any progression to get to that side. It seems like it's either bad play design, or Rodgers is going to the wrong side of the field on his reads which I would not at all expect to be the case.
I could be completely wrong here but I'm just trying to understand what the intent was behind these two plays.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 14, 2023, 01:19:07 PM
I think this includes WR/TE/RB because Ruckert and Lazard both had great run blocking games
Post by: Heismanberg on September 14, 2023, 01:29:32 PM
Jets ranked #1 in Run block and #17 in Pass Pro per PFF
I think this includes WR/TE/RB because Ruckert and Lazard both had great run blocking games
but what if Breece and Dalvin didn't break any tackles?
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 12:27:13 PM
@RichCimini
·
3m
Free agent OT D.J. Fluker, 32, a first-round pick in 2013, visited the #Jets on Tuesday, per source.
visit...activated.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 17, 2023, 05:54:06 PM
Post by: Badger on September 17, 2023, 05:56:41 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 17, 2023, 06:09:33 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 17, 2023, 06:18:03 PM
So... Becton to LT, AVT to RT and Tippmann to G?
I don't know what the ideal lineup is, but I do know that it's weird that an OLine that needed upgrades at several positions doesn't have a 2nd round pick playing.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 17, 2023, 06:20:25 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 17, 2023, 07:26:48 PM
Getting absolutely destroyed today. I've never seen a team but this many resources into the OLine and have it not pay off.
Welcome to being a Jets fan...are you sure you want to do this to yourself?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 17, 2023, 08:35:33 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 18, 2023, 06:44:12 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 18, 2023, 06:55:46 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
3m
A closer look at the #Jets OL, based on ESPN's pass-block win rate (GPS tracking). This isn't good.
OT (out of 54 qualified OTs in Wk 2)
47. Becton -- 75%
54. Brown -- 54%
OG (out of 56)
36. Vera-Tucker -- 88%
45. Tomlinson -- 84%
C (out of 27)
27. McGovern -- 79%
Load Brown/McGovern onto the nearest shortbus and drive them off the nearest pier....and if there's still room, put Keith Carter in there too.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 18, 2023, 07:02:25 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 18, 2023, 07:08:24 AM
Hopefully they pull their excrement together and it isn't another year of this.
Trusting Duane Brown to be serviceable this year may end up getting people fired.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 18, 2023, 07:41:44 AM
We'll be picking in the top 10 in April if our oline plays like that for the rest of the year.
<looking for Heis' top prospect post in draft thread>
Post by: Heismanberg on September 18, 2023, 11:02:40 AM
<looking for Heis' top prospect post in draft thread>
I’m on vacation this week
Post by: Heismanberg on September 18, 2023, 11:11:42 AM
It’s loaded.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 18, 2023, 12:13:23 PM
This draft has at least four OT prospects that belong in the Top 10.
It’s loaded.
We'll probably pick 11th
Post by: Heismanberg on September 18, 2023, 12:19:29 PM
We'll probably pick 11th
We’re competing for a playoff spot.
Believe dat
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 18, 2023, 12:27:14 PM
We’re competing for a playoff spot.
Believe dat
I was being really sarcastic there.
I still believe in this team. I think there's a lot of talent, and I think Zach had a better day than he's getting credit for. The playcalling needs improvement (hopefully Rodgers will be in the booth soon and can inject his POV) and the OL has to either get a lot better quickly or the pieces need to change, but overall, we were competitive for 3 quarters against arguably the best team in the league.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 18, 2023, 12:37:42 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 18, 2023, 12:38:20 PM
It's time for Tippmann to enter the starting lineup. McGovern was horrendous yesterday.He could also replace Laken.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 18, 2023, 12:41:21 PM
He could also replace Laken.
McGovern is worse
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 18, 2023, 12:52:47 PM
Post by: Coach K on September 18, 2023, 12:54:52 PM
But I'd sooner move AVT to LT and let brown and Lawson go eat freaking pudding cups and play shuffleboard
Get will mcdonald back too
Starting to question this coaching staff
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: Johnny English on September 18, 2023, 12:58:11 PM
It's never good when after 2 games we're trying to find ways to replace 3 starters. And 1 of the other 2 starters could be a ticking time bomb in terms of injury.
You could rotate in Mitchell, Tippman and Schweitzer and I wouldn't be overly concerned. We won't, but only the two positions on the right of the line look like starters at the moment.
Again, though. We have to keep reminding ourselves that Dallas are really freaking good. 1-1 v Buffalo and @Dallas is a better outcome than a lot of teams would/will get from those two ties this season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 18, 2023, 01:05:01 PM
AVT sucked far dick and was equally disappointing as someone who's supposed to be "elite"Do we move Becton to LT and AVT to RT? Or stick with Mekhi at RT until he proves his health?
But I'd sooner move AVT to LT and let brown and Lawson go eat freaking pudding cups and play shuffleboard
Get will mcdonald back too
Starting to question this coaching staff
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: Heismanberg on September 18, 2023, 01:06:08 PM
That’s probably our best five right now
Post by: Heismanberg on September 18, 2023, 01:06:51 PM
He needs to hang ‘em up
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 18, 2023, 01:09:28 PM
Becton - Tomlinson - Tipp - AVT - Turner/MitchellEither that or plug Schweitzer at RG and AVT at RT.
That’s probably our best five right now
That said, Billy Turner and Max Mitchell might not be better. They might just be new versions of bad.
Post by: Coach K on September 18, 2023, 01:59:28 PM
Becton - Tomlinson - Tipp - AVT - Turner/MitchellEither what I said or this
That’s probably our best five right now
You either slide AVT out LT or RT or just move Becton to LT
Brown is legit too slow and especially in any sort of zone concept at all . He could probably drive block ok and take on any non dynamic rusher
Too bad like 26 teams in tbr league have one now and will he smelling blood in the water on film
They got 1 week to give us a new 5 but if I have to read any more bullshit about "time to gel" it's clear JD excrement the bed on the OL and they have even less faith in what's behind this pile of dogshit
Tomlinson is uo there with Trumaine Johnson as most regrettable deals in jets recent history. Performance per dollar this is a Maccagnan level failure acquisition lol
And I'm the biggest JD Homer on earth.
We better be drafting 2 OL with the top 3 picks next yr and get aggressive as freak in the offseason or Rodgers will need DMT to find his tenure here anything other than horrid .
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: Coach K on September 18, 2023, 02:01:48 PM
Only matter is if they choke as usual
Defense may be too good to not let it happen barring a -3 TO differential in a tight game .
Also . DAL will be the best defense and best front 7 we see all year . So the reality is somewhere between BUF and DAL
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 18, 2023, 03:58:18 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 18, 2023, 04:32:03 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 18, 2023, 04:55:03 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 18, 2023, 05:11:12 PM
we cannot rely on him anymore. after all the movement with becton and all of his whining, if he's found rhythm/flow at RT i'd rather keep him there for now then shake things up for him again.
this past week aside, at his peak and at his best AVT is still our best OL. play him at LT.
tippmann in for either mcgovern or tomlinson, pick one
didn't max mitchell swing between guard/tackle in college?
Post by: Badger on September 18, 2023, 05:42:28 PM
Duane Brown seemed to play better with a torn rotator cuff last year than after getting it fixed. He's only 1 year older. excrement I would have just assumed he'd be at least as decent as last year.Right?
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 18, 2023, 05:48:27 PM
Told yall we should've grabbed Fant
If we weld Fant and Brown together we can be mad at two poorly playing OTs at the same time. Efficiency.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 18, 2023, 06:13:44 PM
he just got cleared to play physically at the end of camp. in terms of a physical/match fitness timeline, he's probably somewhere in early spring OTAs.
we cannot rely on him anymore. after all the movement with becton and all of his whining, if he's found rhythm/flow at RT i'd rather keep him there for now then shake things up for him again.
this past week aside, at his peak and at his best AVT is still our best OL. play him at LT.
tippmann in for either mcgovern or tomlinson, pick one
didn't max mitchell swing between guard/tackle in college?
I think this is important. Though undeserving of an excuse as a team. He's not young, and coming off significant surgery. That's on the roster manager to ensure there was a solid plan in place to work him back in slowly--or replace him completely.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 18, 2023, 07:23:04 PM
If we weld Fant and Brown together we can be mad at two poorly playing OTs at the same time. Efficiency.
If we had Fant we could move Becton over to LT and slide Fant over. At least Fant offers flexibility, all Brown gave us was a potential career ending injury to probably the best QB to play for this franchise
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 18, 2023, 08:15:54 PM
If we had Fant we could move Becton over to LT and slide Fant over. At least Fant offers flexibility, all Brown gave us was a potential career ending injury to probably the best QB to play for this franchise
Did you forget that Fant was atrocious last season? We have bad tackles on the roster we can put at RT already.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 18, 2023, 08:45:41 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on September 18, 2023, 08:54:51 PM
Yes. The goal is to get good tackles. We have bad tackles. Adding another bad tackle changes nothing. Fant had 1 good year with us. That was really it
Becton is not bad
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2023, 09:34:00 AM
Fellas is this good
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 20, 2023, 09:44:33 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/HVL7nwt/IMG-7005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MsynMwc)
Fellas is this good
If you read the list backward, we're at the top!
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2023, 10:19:28 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/HVL7nwt/IMG-7005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MsynMwc)
Fellas is this good
It is if you enjoy the excitement of following the team searching for a new GM and coaching staff.
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2023, 10:35:24 AM
https://twitter.com/GehlkenNFL/status/1704514763915395220
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 20, 2023, 10:48:31 AM
In some slight defense of our OL:
https://twitter.com/GehlkenNFL/status/1704514763915395220
Not sure it's a defense when nobody is slowing him down
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2023, 10:58:52 AM
Not sure it's a defense when nobody is slowing him down
If he's getting off the line faster than any defender in the league, it's going to be harder to slower him down. Brown had a very bad day, but much younger and better linemen - for example Evan Neal - are also going to have a very bad day against a player who is that explosive.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 20, 2023, 12:53:49 PM
If he's getting off the line faster than any defender in the league, it's going to be harder to slower him down. Brown had a very bad day, but much younger and better linemen - for example Evan Neal - are also going to have a very bad day against a player who is that explosive.
Some of it may also go back to what I discussed yesterday about the timing of playcalls. This team has been bad for many regimes in getting in playcalls timely. By the time the OC gets the call in, the QB relays it in the huddle, and the team gets to the line, the clock is seemingly always ticking under 10 seconds. When the play clock is down to 3 or less, it's a lot less difficult for a defender to jump the snap count. The OL is at a disadvantage there because they can't start moving early at all, while a Parsons can already be generating momentum.
I'd be curious if anyone's watched the film, was Parsons getting a jump before the snap?
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2023, 01:00:41 PM
Some of it may also go back to what I discussed yesterday about the timing of playcalls. This team has been bad for many regimes in getting in playcalls timely. By the time the OC gets the call in, the QB relays it in the huddle, and the team gets to the line, the clock is seemingly always ticking under 10 seconds. When the play clock is down to 3 or less, it's a lot less difficult for a defender to jump the snap count. The OL is at a disadvantage there because they can't start moving early at all, while a Parsons can already be generating momentum.
I'd be curious if anyone's watched the film, was Parsons getting a jump before the snap?
Not really.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/16nqz4r/coaches_films_micah_parsons_dominates_the_jets_in/
It's a combination of speed, intelligence, strength and technique. He's working Brown inside and out, beating him off the line and getting leverage, or just plain running around him.
https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1704547310074536079
It is reasonable for us to complain about Brown being old, about Carter not giving him help, about the plays coming out slow, about not running the ball enough that he had to respect the play action, about all sorts of things. But we also have to acknowledge that Micah Parsons looks like being the best pass rusher in the NFL right now.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 20, 2023, 01:01:38 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 20, 2023, 01:13:54 PM
Not really.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/16nqz4r/coaches_films_micah_parsons_dominates_the_jets_in/
It's a combination of speed, intelligence, strength and technique. He's working Brown inside and out, beating him off the line and getting leverage, or just plain running around him.
https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1704547310074536079
It is reasonable for us to complain about Brown being old, about Carter not giving him help, about the plays coming out slow, about not running the ball enough that he had to respect the play action, about all sorts of things. But we also have to acknowledge that Micah Parsons looks like being the best pass rusher in the NFL right now.
I didn't mean to demean Parsons at all. He's exciting to watch if he's not coming after your QB. I just wonder if we're going out of our way to hurt ourselves against a guy who doesn't need help.
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2023, 01:15:26 PM
I didn't mean to demean Parsons at all. He's exciting to watch if he's not coming after your QB. I just wonder if we're going out of our way to hurt ourselves against a guy who doesn't need help.
We definitely didn't make his day very difficult, but I think he's going to do this to a lot of teams this season. The Giants have a pretty decent line and he took them apart.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 20, 2023, 08:48:18 PM
We definitely didn't make his day very difficult, but I think he's going to do this to a lot of teams this season. The Giants have a pretty decent line and he took them apart.
The giants do not have a decent line. Andrew Thomas is pretty good. Parsons lined up over Evan Neal who has an argument for worst RT in the league
Post by: Johnny English on September 20, 2023, 09:08:47 PM
The giants do not have a decent line. Andrew Thomas is pretty good. Parsons lined up over Evan Neal who has an argument for worst RT in the league
Neal was drafted in the top ten from a school that generally produces pro ready linemen. He isn't chopped liver. Schmitz was also a highly touted prospect, Bredeson is OK, Thomas as you say is good. I have no idea who their other guard is.
It's not elite, but it isn't awful.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 20, 2023, 09:57:33 PM
Neal was drafted in the top ten from a school that generally produces pro ready linemen. He isn't chopped liver. Schmitz was also a highly touted prospect, Bredeson is OK, Thomas as you say is good. I have no idea who their other guard is.
It's not elite, but it isn't awful.
Neal is horrendous
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 21, 2023, 08:40:30 AM
52% - NYJ
51%
50%
49%
48%
47% - PIT
46%
45%
44%
43%
42%
41% - NYG
40% - CAR
39% - CHI
38% - HOU
37% - DEN, CLE
36% - KC, NO, SF
35%
34% - NE
33% - ATL
32% - TEN, PHI
31%
30% - TB, SEA, ARI
29% - WAS
28% - MIN
27%
26% - BUF, LAR
25% - LAC, DET
24%
23% - JAX, DAL
22%
21% - MIA
20%
19% - IND, CIN
18% - BAL
17%
16% - GB
15%
14%
13%
12%
11%
10% - LV
Post by: Johnny English on September 21, 2023, 08:51:21 AM
I don't think we need stats to prove that our OL and QB aren't having a fun time at the moment, we have the eye test for that.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 21, 2023, 09:10:53 AM
I'm not sure that stat is especially meaningful with only two games played. Opponents faced will significantly skew the data to make any worthwhile conclusion difficult to reach. Are the Packers especially good in protection, or is it a function of having only faced Chicago and Atlanta so far?
I don't think we need stats to prove that our OL and QB aren't having a fun time at the moment, we have the eye test for that.
Any stat is relatively meaningless through 2 games.
That said, the gap between us and the rest of the league in all of these OL stats is concerning. I also don’t see any reason this will self correct any time soon, especially playing the Pats, Chiefs, and Eagles.
Post by: Johnny English on September 21, 2023, 09:18:24 AM
Any stat is relatively meaningless through 2 games.
That said, the gap between us and the rest of the league in all of these OL stats is concerning. I also don’t see any reason this will self correct any time soon, especially playing the Pats, Chiefs, and Eagles.
I don't think the Patriots defense is anything special - Judon is good and Belichick is obviously an elite schemer, but talentwise they shouldn't be beating us.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 21, 2023, 09:23:37 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 21, 2023, 09:25:04 AM
I think they have a few corner injuries though.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 21, 2023, 01:56:50 PM
Josh Uche (NE) is currently #1 in the NFL in pressure rate and #3 in PRWR
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1567327873362546692/RyuXg2Br_400x400.jpg)
Post by: reuben on September 21, 2023, 03:01:25 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1567327873362546692/RyuXg2Br_400x400.jpg)
Dude's jawline owes his razor a beer.
Post by: Badger on September 21, 2023, 05:15:31 PM
Judon and Uche are enough to wreck our gameplan.Judon has been singlehandedly keeping the Pats on the cusp of respectability.
I think they have a few corner injuries though.
Post by: Coach K on September 21, 2023, 06:03:46 PM
And the OL coach is acting like saying "we're fully confident he will he ready to go " instills any semblance of confidence
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Post by: MBGreen on September 21, 2023, 06:10:59 PM
You know it's sad when you be got a 40 yr old LT with a hip innury who hasn't practiced all weekTitans fans laughed at us when we hired Keith Carter.
And the OL coach is acting like saying "we're fully confident he will he ready to go " instills any semblance of confidence
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#NeverForget
Post by: Coach K on September 21, 2023, 06:20:54 PM
Titans fans laughed at us when we hired Keith Carter.Derrick Henry should get a portion of his salary lol
#NeverForget
Fml this wide zone excrement too. We don't have the interior for it .
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Post by: Coach K on September 21, 2023, 06:21:24 PM
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Post by: Jumbo on September 21, 2023, 06:26:59 PM
You know it's sad when you be got a 40 yr old LT with a hip innury who hasn't practiced all week
And the OL coach is acting like saying "we're fully confident he will he ready to go " instills any semblance of confidence
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would still rather start Geriatric Brown than Billy the Turnstile
Post by: Coach K on September 21, 2023, 06:28:25 PM
would still rather start Geriatric Brown than Billy the TurnstileI'd rather just move Becton to LT let Brown eat pudding cups and play bingo and move AVT to RT
Throw Tippman in and idc if it's a McGovern or Schweitzer at RG
But this excrement is sad
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Post by: Derek Smalls on September 21, 2023, 08:02:51 PM
Titans fans laughed at us when we hired Keith Carter.And Broncos fans (and NFL fans as a whole) laughed when we hired Hackett.
#NeverForget
Saleh hasn't exactly hired the best offensive staffs.
Post by: Johnny English on September 21, 2023, 08:11:27 PM
And Broncos fans (and NFL fans as a whole) laughed when we hired Hackett.
Saleh hasn't exactly hired the best offensive staffs.
And we laughed when everyone after us hired Brian Schottenheimer and he's doing OK. Fans are idiots and it's irrelevant what they think.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 21, 2023, 10:41:19 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 22, 2023, 07:30:33 AM
And Broncos fans (and NFL fans as a whole) laughed when we hired Hackett.
Saleh hasn't exactly hired the best offensive staffs.
You sound like i do....what multiverse is this?
EDIT: I laughed at us when we hired Hackett too
Post by: MBGreen on September 22, 2023, 07:35:00 AM
Saleh lied and people died when they got rid of MLF
I hear MLF makes a pretty good cup of coffee down in LA.
#sources
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 22, 2023, 03:59:34 PM
Post by: reuben on September 22, 2023, 09:54:42 PM
https://x.com/nickmangold/status/1705220784103330258?s=20 (https://x.com/nickmangold/status/1705220784103330258?s=20)
I also think a non-ragdoll at center might have obstructed Parsons a bit here.
Post by: Johnny English on September 22, 2023, 10:17:47 PM
I also think a non-ragdoll at center might have obstructed Parsons a bit here.I don't have much love for McGovern but I don't know what he was supposed to do differently here.
Post by: Libero_2 on September 23, 2023, 05:14:33 AM
Duane Brown still hasn’t practiced this week. Im starting to think we actually are gonna see some nuclear OL shenanigans this week
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 23, 2023, 05:57:05 AM
I missed Schweitzer being out with a concussion this week. So there’s that.
Duane Brown still hasn’t practiced this week. Im starting to think we actually are gonna see some nuclear OL shenanigans this week
if it means we actually shake things up, put AVT at LT, and put in tippmann at G, then that's great
Post by: insanity on September 23, 2023, 10:02:47 AM
if it means we actually shake things up, put AVT at LT, and put in tippmann at G, then that's greatTippman looked terrible at guard in the preseason. I'd rather him play c and move McGovern over
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 23, 2023, 03:58:23 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 23, 2023, 04:20:35 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 23, 2023, 05:05:39 PM
Post by: Jumbo on September 24, 2023, 11:28:11 AM
Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 07:57:36 PM
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 10:49:13 PM
Any non negative comment is just an excuse
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 26, 2023, 06:55:55 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 08:58:45 AM
@AdamSchefter
·
17h
Former Bengals’ OT La’el Collins, who missed training camp on the active/PUP list while rehabbing from a torn anterior cruciate ligament and medial collateral ligament, passed his physical today with Dr. Neal ElAttrache. Collins expected to soon find work.
The Jets should be in on this
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 09:21:46 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 09:43:26 AM
He's probably toast
the same doctor is looking after Rodgers...so let's hope his opinion on Collins holds some weight.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 26, 2023, 10:02:18 AM
he’s ‘physically cleared’ but how far away is a guy like collins from being match fit and meaningfully competing? 2-3 months?
i’m not sure we waste any time on this guy unless our OT room is hit with further substantial injury
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 10:21:15 AM
Not sure we can upgrade there right now.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 26, 2023, 10:32:24 AM
I’m reasonably hopeful/confident that with more time together to gel the overall play will improve to at the very least average
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2023, 10:34:31 AM
Definitely a down game overall but there were definitely some plays where I thought they did a reasonable job forming a pocket for ZachAt least the current configuration has upside (at least among Becton, AVT, Tippmann).
I’m reasonably hopeful/confident that with more time together to gel the overall play will improve to at the very least average
McGovern and Tomlinson are what they are at this point.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 26, 2023, 10:47:20 AM
I don't want to give these guys a lot of excuses because it's still not a unit Joe should be proud of building, but it would be nice if they just need to gel to be able to protect Cousins.
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 10:58:24 AM
How much of the issue is related to only having one week of practice together in the new positions?
I don't want to give these guys a lot of excuses because it's still not a unit Joe should be proud of building, but it would be nice if they just need to gel to be able to protect Cousins.
lol...Cousins isn't a Jet, homie.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2023, 11:06:03 AM
I think our two best offensive linemen were our starting tackles last Sunday. That's how it should be.No, but long-term, AVT's flexibility could allow us multiple paths to address offensive line in the future. And we might need that since there are still major questions on whether Becton can last 17 games.
Not sure we can upgrade there right now.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 26, 2023, 11:11:15 AM
lol...Cousins isn't a Jet, homie.
...yet
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 11:38:07 AM
No, but long-term, AVT's flexibility could allow us multiple paths to address offensive line in the future. And we might need that since there are still major questions on whether Becton can last 17 games.
I'm only looking at this season. I think Becton is gone after this year unless he turns it on the rest of the year.
Our top pick is likely going to be a tackle.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2023, 11:41:57 AM
Looks like a great QB/OT/WR draft as you've said, and we could use any of those positions.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 11:46:48 AM
...yet
Stop it.
Post by: MBGreen on September 26, 2023, 11:51:46 AM
...yetI guess he's wearing a Siemien mask
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 12:38:57 PM
Looks like a great QB/OT/WR draft as you've said, and we could use any of those positions.
Joe Alt, Olu Fashanu, and Kingsley Suamataia are elite tackle prospects. We have to come away with one of these three players if/when we miss the playoffs in 2023.
Brandon Thorn (best OL evaluator around, imo) compared Fashanu to D'brick. Maybe we'll get a positive version of Time is a Flat Circle around here.
We cannot miss on tackle again UNLESS we've got a top 2 pick and we've got a shot at another potential franchise QB.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2023, 12:48:07 PM
Joe Alt, Olu Fashanu, and Kingsley Suamataia are elite tackle prospects. We have to come away with one of these three players if/when we miss the playoffs in 2023.Agreed. We'll see where we pick and who is on the board. But it seems like QB or OT are the picks, barring the board falling a certain way. And I don't think we're getting a top-2 pick, so probably OT.
Brandon Thorn (best OL evaluator around, imo) compared Fashanu to D'brick. Maybe we'll get a positive version of Time is a Flat Circle around here.
We cannot miss on tackle again UNLESS we've got a top 2 pick and we've got a shot at another potential franchise QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 01:02:04 PM
Agreed. We'll see where we pick and who is on the board. But it seems like QB or OT are the picks, barring the board falling a certain way. And I don't think we're getting a top-2 pick, so probably OT.
I know we're really early in the season, but this is starting to feel like 2005 in a lot of ways. We'll be disappointingly bad but not bad enough, and a really great player should be there.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 01:03:32 PM
I know we're really early in the season, but this is starting to feel like 2005 in a lot of ways. We'll be disappointingly bad but not bad enough, and a really great player should be there.
Are you ready for another DE and interior OL combo?
Post by: Coach K on September 26, 2023, 01:12:21 PM
We only groom DEs and TEs and everyone except QBs
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Post by: Heismanberg on September 26, 2023, 01:14:50 PM
TEs
We do not.
Ruckert is our best blocking tight end and he barely plays.
Post by: Coach K on September 26, 2023, 01:21:29 PM
We do not.Yeah it was sarcasm since he's sitting on the pine lol
Ruckert is our best blocking tight end and he barely plays.
He should he starting and I have serious doubts about this staff and regime lol
Still early but this carriage is turning into a rotten pumpkin quite fast lol
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Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 01:37:56 PM
We do not.
Ruckert is our best blocking tight end and he barely plays.
I can't wait for hm to leave and be good.
Post by: MBGreen on October 03, 2023, 10:15:44 AM
Quote
Seth Walder
@SethWalder
A positive for the Jets: their pass block win rate has improved each week.
Week 1: 30%
Week 2: 35%
Week 3: 50%
Week 4: 68%
(League average in 2023 is 56%)
Post by: Badger on October 03, 2023, 10:17:08 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 03, 2023, 10:38:17 AM
G E L
I wonder if we win the NE game if Duane Brown never starts a game and the current OL is the line we've played with all season so far.
Ugh, that just made me wonder, if this was the starting OL opening night, does Zach Wilson ever take a snap for this team this year?
Post by: Coach K on October 03, 2023, 10:50:34 AM
I wonder if we win the NE game if Duane Brown never starts a game and the current OL is the line we've played with all season so far.Yeah if Rodgers was playing hero ball without the mobility it was likely inevitable. Especially with constant calf issues all offseason
Ugh, that just made me wonder, if this was the starting OL opening night, does Zach Wilson ever take a snap for this team this year?
Still blows my mind he didn't just throw it away lol and the blind spin before being hit lol
This also would've required the staff to actually let Becton play LT lol which was only gonna happen out of necessity
Either way we've gone from dogshit to above avg and that's all I need considering the circumstances
Just need Zach to build on last week , Cook to sit down and Izzy to get his snaps
#ITTFFSP
Post by: MBGreen on October 03, 2023, 10:55:54 AM
I wonder if we win the NE game if Duane Brown never starts a game and the current OL is the line we've played with all season so far.
Ugh, that just made me wonder, if this was the starting OL opening night, does Zach Wilson ever take a snap for this team this year?
imagine if we took Warren Sapp over Kyle Brady
Post by: Badger on October 03, 2023, 10:56:46 AM
Yeah if Rodgers was playing hero ball without the mobility it was likely inevitable. Especially with constant calf issues all offseasonWith a little consistency and the schedule lightening up hopefully we can string together some respectable performances.
Still blows my mind he didn't just throw it away lol and the blind spin before being hit lol
This also would've required the staff to actually let Becton play LT lol which was only gonna happen out of necessity
Either way we've gone from dogshit to above avg and that's all I need considering the circumstances
Just need Zach to build on last week , Cook to sit down and Izzy to get his snaps
#ITTFFSP
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 03, 2023, 10:57:49 AM
Pretty massive improvement from 32nd in the league
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 03, 2023, 11:25:01 AM
imagine if we took Warren Sapp over Kyle Brady
Yeah, yeah, balls said the queen, if I had them I'd be king
Just thoughts that occurred to me is all. Even without hindsight being 20/20, relying on a 38yo tackle who was trying to return from surgery without taking any preseason snaps wasn't good business. Especially when trying to protect a QB even older than him.
Post by: MBGreen on October 03, 2023, 11:32:16 AM
Yeah, yeah, balls said the queen, if I had them I'd be king
Just thoughts that occurred to me is all. Even without hindsight being 20/20, relying on a 38yo tackle who was trying to return from surgery without taking any preseason snaps wasn't good business. Especially when trying to protect a QB even older than him.
haha...i'm just ribbing you, man.
whenever the "What if" game starts up...we literally can go back "years" with it.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 03, 2023, 11:36:06 AM
haha...i'm just ribbing you, man.
whenever the "What if" game starts up...we literally can go back "years" with it.
This team is just one long "What if"
Like, "What if Joe Namath never made a deal with the devil?"
Post by: MBGreen on October 03, 2023, 11:43:16 AM
This team is just one long "What if"
Like, "What if Joe Namath never made a deal with the devil?"
What if Weeb Ewbank wasn't conceived during the Civil War?
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 03, 2023, 01:00:39 PM
I wonder if we win the NE game if Duane Brown never starts a game and the current OL is the line we've played with all season so far.
Ugh, that just made me wonder, if this was the starting OL opening night, does Zach Wilson ever take a snap for this team this year?
several of us were banging this drum all summer. that pigeon-holing brown in as a starter was folly, and that we should line up our best combination of 5 OL to help protect our 40 year old QB.
brown was obviously not physically or match ready, opening night or the following week. huge, huge mistake.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 07, 2023, 03:08:29 PM
what do we do with him at the end of the year? is one year of health/consistency enough to sign him to his next contract? do we tag him for another year-long surveillance period while drafting another OT that could potentially replace him if he gets hurt again?
Post by: bojanglesman on October 07, 2023, 03:30:09 PM
let's say the OL continues to gel, get better, and becton plays well at LT.
what do we do with him at the end of the year? is one year of health/consistency enough to sign him to his next contract? do we tag him for another year-long surveillance period while drafting another OT that could potentially replace him if he gets hurt again?
Franchise tag was $18 million for an offensive lineman this year.
The injury issue works both ways. We don't want to get stuck with a big contract if he gets hurt in 2024 or shows up sloppy fatz but he also doesn't want to risk not getting a long term deal if he gets injured on the franchise tag. He might take a lower deal.
This is truly one you see how the rest of the season plays out. If he plays really well and stays healthy, I say we make him an offer but not an aggressive one, but threaten to tag him and see if he flinches. If he gets hurt, just let him go.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 10, 2023, 04:55:20 PM
Quote
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
Free agent OT La’El Collins worked out for the #Jets, per the wire. Would be an interesting addition.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 10, 2023, 05:02:09 PM
This will give MB and erection.
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2023, 05:02:55 PM
This will give MB and erection.Let's ride.
Also, it's smart business.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 10, 2023, 05:08:31 PM
Let's ride.He can't be more injured than our starter.
Also, it's smart business.
Post by: dcm1602 on October 10, 2023, 05:12:39 PM
Hopefully dude will be ready to go after our bye week
(assuming we sign him)
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 10, 2023, 05:15:06 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2023, 05:43:21 PM
He can't be more injured than our starter.
beggars cant be choosers
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 10, 2023, 05:55:18 PM
I am a little skeptical he's an upgrade over Mitchell/Brown/Turner because if he was, he probably would have signed somewhere. But you had to at least bring Collins in to see what he has to offer.
Post by: Coach K on October 10, 2023, 06:01:50 PM
Plain and simple . Bring him in for depth if he can pass the physical
#ITTFFSP
Post by: dcm1602 on October 10, 2023, 10:13:08 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 10, 2023, 10:19:58 PM
He's also visiting the GiantsYeah...hes not going to that pooper
Post by: Johnny English on October 10, 2023, 11:22:21 PM
Yeah...hes not going to that pooper
He is if they offer him a contract and we don't.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 11, 2023, 10:37:37 AM
Yeah...hes not going to that pooper
That's what they are saying about us.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 11, 2023, 10:50:18 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
Kelly is an interesting guy. He has 10 years experience, mostly at RT. Played under Hackett (GB) and Downing (Tenn), so there's scheme familiarity. Kelly, 33, has 54 career starts, including 3 last year with Indy. #Jets
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Post by: guinness77 on October 11, 2023, 11:45:09 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2023, 12:28:17 PM
I’m guessing Collins is off the table?
Collins would probably be a starter. Kelly is just veteran depth on the practice squad.
Post by: Badger on October 29, 2023, 10:09:41 PM
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2023/all/offensive-line/available/
Post by: reuben on October 29, 2023, 10:21:06 PM
The scrap heap
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2023/all/offensive-line/available/
I've never heard of Chase Roullier and I'll be furious if we don't sign him.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 30, 2023, 04:27:40 AM
The scrap heap
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2023/all/offensive-line/available/
That list is definitely not updated because Pugh played /started for the Giants yesterday
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 05:22:58 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on October 30, 2023, 07:51:58 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 07:53:30 AM
I think we need to get Collins in here ASAP
Right now, we need a center way more than another tackle
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 07:54:32 AM
None of the pressures or sacks were the OL’s fault because they were out there “fighting” - everything is Zach Wilson’s fault.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 07:57:11 AM
(https://media.tenor.com/NFf-4JOw-PUAAAAM/everyone-gary-oldman.gif)
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 08:02:41 AM
Willie Colon is an obnoxious piece of excrement
None of the pressures or sacks were the OL’s fault because they were out there “fighting” - everything is Zach Wilson’s fault.
What an annoying poopchute.
I'll never understand why Rex and Tanny were obsessed with players form the Steelers OLine.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2023, 08:07:53 AM
What an annoying poopchute.
I'll never understand why Rex and Tanny were obsessed with players form the Steelers OLine.
Because they were mostly really good players?
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 08:14:41 AM
Because they were mostly really good players?
Not particularly. Roethlisberger was hit 12 times a game when he was at his prime, he was just too strong to take down.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2023, 08:23:41 AM
Not particularly. Roethlisberger was hit 12 times a game when he was at his prime, he was just too strong to take down.
Alan Faneca was indisputably a good player who was critical to the development of the best OL most of us can probably remember. Colon and Beachum were both solid and would be automatic starters on any line we've had in the last decade.
Am I missing anyone?
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 08:27:39 AM
Alan Faneca was indisputably a good player who was critical to the development of the best OL most of us can probably remember. Colon and Beachum were both solid and would be automatic starters on any line we've had in the last decade.
Am I missing anyone?
I'll agree with the first point but Beachum and Colon should have been easily replaceable players. Rex was just obsessed with grabbing players from the Steelers since they kept beating him in the playoffs when he was Baltimore's DC about as much as he was obsessed with bringing in older Ravens that were well past their prime.
We tried to replace Brandon Moore with Chris Kemoeatu. That one fell through when Kemoeatu changed his mind at the last minute and we re-signed Moore.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 09:10:00 AM
Offense needs to find sustainable success. Right now, it is mostly miracle Breece big plays.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 09:12:27 AM
They were definitely over the top criticizing Zach and nobody else. Lots of issues with the offense. Basically everyone not named Breece and Garrett.
Both Breece and Garrett had crucial drops as well. It's all good. The entire offense deserves blame, but it's really frustrating to hear a former offensive lineman blame the QB when a nose tackle generated 15 pressures by himself.
Thibodeaux and Lawrence dominated us yesterday. We had no answer. And when Martindale was bringing Pinnock, we just didn't have an answer when we were outnumbered.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2023, 10:42:23 AM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1719012574832812297
May have got away with one there.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 10:48:54 AM
Dislocated kneecap for McGovern, no surgery, week to week.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1719012574832812297
May have got away with one there.
This feels like something that will come up again.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 30, 2023, 10:49:07 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2023, 10:49:32 AM
Dislocated kneecap for McGovern, no surgery, week to week.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1719012574832812297
May have got away with one there.
That's fortunate, if he makes it back in a few weeks. Still possible he doesn't come back, but at least there a chance. If we can get him and Tippmann back in the next few weeks, we might actually be able to give Zach a second or so to throw.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2023, 10:49:36 AM
This feels like something that will come up again.
Strongly suspect that won't be a Jets problem after this season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 10:52:30 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 10:53:04 AM
Strongly suspect that won't be a Jets problem after this season.
I mean yeah. Ideally Tippmann takes over the job we drafted him to play.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2023, 11:00:23 AM
I mean yeah. Ideally Tippmann takes over the job we drafted him to play.
I wonder if Tippmann is a better guard or center. He'll need to play where he's needed for now, but I'm more thinking long-term.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 11:02:23 AM
I wonder if Tippmann is a better guard or center. He'll need to play where he's needed for now, but I'm more thinking long-term.
At this point I think both scenarios align with him hiking to Zach atm, assuming he’s healthy enough to play.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 30, 2023, 11:08:56 AM
At this point I think both scenarios align with him hiking to Zach atm, assuming he’s healthy enough to play.
Well, at least he IS a center. That's an upgrade from yesterday. As a side note, I think they should give Xavier Newman a shot to stick as a backup lineman. He played admirably well considering the situation.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 11:23:07 AM
As a side note, I think they should give Xavier Newman a shot to stick as a backup lineman. He played admirably well considering the situation.
I don't think we have a choice now. McGovern is likely out a couple weeks and Schweitzer is being held together by duct tape.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 11:38:19 AM
I don't think we have a choice now. McGovern is likely out a couple weeks and Schweitzer is being held together by duct tape.
Still need a diagnosis for Schweitzer but we can elevate Newman 2 more times before we need to sign him to the active roster. I definitely don’t want Billy Turner to be the default answer for the interior going forward.
Post by: MBGreen on October 30, 2023, 11:39:32 AM
Still need a diagnosis for Schweitzer but we can elevate Newman 2 more times before we need to sign him to the active roster. I definitely don’t want Billy Turner to be the default answer for the interior going forward.
OhhhBilly.gif
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 11:41:38 AM
OhhhBilly.gif
Laken Tomlinson and Becton are the two starters who haven’t suffered injuries yet and the latter really scares the excrement out of me. We might see him again on the outside.
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2023, 02:29:23 PM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1719073159603790255
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 02:31:04 PM
Schweitzer and McGovern to IR.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1719073159603790255
So if Schweitzer has a chance to return I’m guessing this wasn’t a case of “calf injur = Achilles’ tear”.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 02:32:19 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 02:47:18 PM
We'll probably elevate Xavier Newman and Dennis Kelly. We absolutely need to go out and add a couple linemen.
Soon...
(https://dxbhsrqyrr690.cloudfront.net/sidearm.nextgen.sites/pittsburghpanthers.com/images/2019/9/3/FB_UVA_0761_2019_PM2_1233.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 02:49:12 PM
Soon...
(https://dxbhsrqyrr690.cloudfront.net/sidearm.nextgen.sites/pittsburghpanthers.com/images/2019/9/3/FB_UVA_0761_2019_PM2_1233.jpg)
I hope so. I don't think he could be much worse than Max Mitchell.
Becton - Tomlinson - Tippman - Mitchell/Kelly - Warren
This might be our best five right now. Horrendous.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 30, 2023, 03:18:18 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 03:26:55 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 03:28:45 PM
Both Breece and Garrett had crucial drops as well. It's all good. The entire offense deserves blame, but it's really frustrating to hear a former offensive lineman blame the QB when a nose tackle generated 15 pressures by himself.
Thibodeaux and Lawrence dominated us yesterday. We had no answer. And when Martindale was bringing Pinnock, we just didn't have an answer when we were outnumbered.
Rodgers would have torn his other Achilles if he was out there
Post by: Johnny English on October 30, 2023, 03:32:10 PM
We have one of our original five starters playing and in their original position. We're not even halfway through the season...
Our all injury OL is
Brown - Schweitzer - McGovern - Tippman - AVT
and it's inarguably better than our current starting line.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 03:56:27 PM
Willie Colon is an obnoxious piece of excrement
None of the pressures or sacks were the OL’s fault because they were out there “fighting” - everything is Zach Wilson’s fault.
I'm usually a fan of Willie's takes, but last night was hot garbage.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 03:59:19 PM
One thing I agreed with Colon about though is to give Newman a chance to prove himself in practice this week. He played better than you'd expect a guy just elevated to play under awful conditions. Unless Tippman can play.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 30, 2023, 03:59:45 PM
I'm usually a fan of Willie's takes, but last night was hot garbage.
I just don't get it. It was so bad and you could tell Connor wanted to say something but didn't.
HOW DO YOU GET SACKED BEHIND A FOURTH STRING CENTER? HE'S TRYING HIS BEST AGAINST DEXTER LAWRENCE AND YOU GET SACKED?!
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 04:26:00 PM
I just don't get it. It was so bad and you could tell Connor wanted to say something but didn't.
HOW DO YOU GET SACKED BEHIND A FOURTH STRING CENTER? HE'S TRYING HIS BEST AGAINST DEXTER LAWRENCE AND YOU GET SACKED?!
Yeah, that was where he really lost me. Okay, my man was trying really hard. But he wasn't succeeding, so what's Zach supposed to do? Magic his way to avoiding sacks and throwing TDs to WRs who keep dropping the ball?
I'm cool with Willie and Bart always defending the UDFAs and late-round picks. They're guys who fought to be starters and there's obviously a lot of love for underdogs. But that rant was way too far. He could've supported Newman without all that "not cute" BS.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 04:34:51 PM
Yeah, that was where he really lost me. Okay, my man was trying really hard. But he wasn't succeeding, so what's Zach supposed to do? Magic his way to avoiding sacks and throwing TDs to WRs who keep dropping the ball?It always seems like it's personal with some analysts about Zach. I think some ex-players are offended that Zach has been so bad for so long and keeps getting chances, and these players are jealous because they know they would never get anywhere near as long of a rope.
I'm cool with Willie and Bart always defending the UDFAs and late-round picks. They're guys who fought to be starters and there's obviously a lot of love for underdogs. But that rant was way too far. He could've supported Newman without all that "not cute" BS.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 30, 2023, 04:53:54 PM
It always seems like it's personal with some analysts about Zach. I think some ex-players are offended that Zach has been so bad for so long and keeps getting chances, and these players are jealous because they know they would never get anywhere near as long of a rope.
Willie and Bart both literally admitted as much.
But you get drafted higher--or at all--because you've already proven some level of talent. That buys you more time to mature as a professional. Life works that way. A Harvard grad is gonna get a longer rope than a guy who graduated from Queens College.
I've had times where I've said "enough is enough" with Zach and if it were up to me, the Jets would've acquired someone else (Cousins, Tannehill) weeks ago. But this staff sees what we don't week in and week out. And I gauge a staff a lot on the attitude of the players, and they're all 100% bought into the program, and whenever they speak, they're 100% in on Zach.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 30, 2023, 05:00:04 PM
It always seems like it's personal with some analysts about Zach. I think some ex-players are offended that Zach has been so bad for so long and keeps getting chances, and these players are jealous because they know they would never get anywhere near as long of a rope.
There aren't too many teams that'll toss a first round QB that quickly. A 4th round OT or a UDFA ILB are going to have to produce a lot sooner.
But they both have had some garbage takes on Wilson. I can't remember which one it was but the whole "Wilson is the most selfish player in they history of football and hyperboles!" take from the Tampa game where he didn't hand it off to Berrios is up there.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 30, 2023, 05:06:46 PM
There aren't too many teams that'll toss a first round QB that quickly. A 4th round OT or a UDFA ILB are going to have to produce a lot sooner.Totally agree. Some of the takes on Wilson have been ridiculous in a negative light. There are plenty of statistics to make him look bad. The Patriots presser was a bad look and immature, even if it was a bit overblown. I think that presser, combined with his bad play and his teen movie looks make it personal with some guys, and I don't get it. His teammates have always seemed to support him. I think part of that is because the Jets have drafted high-character players for years, but if they all hated him, we'd probably know about it. I know some people pointed at the White Mike shirts as a knock on Zach, but I think it just shows they will support the QB and just want to win games.
But they both have had some garbage takes on Wilson. I can't remember which one it was but the whole "Wilson is the most selfish player in they history of football and hyperboles!" take from the Tampa game where he didn't hand it off to Berrios is up there.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 30, 2023, 11:44:27 PM
It always seems like it's personal with some analysts about Zach. I think some ex-players are offended that Zach has been so bad for so long and keeps getting chances, and these players are jealous because they know they would never get anywhere near as long of a rope.
Zach literally lost his job 2 times in less than a year, so no, that isn’t true
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 31, 2023, 12:22:36 PM
I've never heard of Chase Roullier and I'll be furious if we don't sign him.
How are we on this one?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 31, 2023, 03:44:50 PM
We just elevated Dennis Kelly to the active roster. Saffold probably gets elevated next week.
At least these guys have experience.
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2023, 09:59:13 AM
Quote
Antwan V. Staley
@antwanstaley
The Jets have announced they’ve signed OL Chris Glaser to the active roster.
he looks like fat Turtle from Entourage
https://x.com/nyjets/status/1719726201789616151?s=20
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2023, 11:44:35 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 01, 2023, 12:42:40 PM
Quote
Saleh: Becton is "a freakish athlete and I think as he continues to evolve in his career, obviously you'd love for him to be a left tackle. But where we are at right now, we just got to make sure the best five are on the field, somehow, some way."
Looks like Becton back to RT. I guess I don't understand why Becton can switch to RT but Brown can't. I do understand wanting to have the best 5 out there, especially with all the injuries. I wonder who the RG will be.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2023, 12:43:45 PM
Dick
Looks like Becton back to RT. I guess I don't understand why Becton can switch to RT but Brown can't. I do understand wanting to have the best 5 out there, especially with all the injuries.
He'll tear his shoulder again in practice and it'll be a non-issue.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 12:46:10 PM
Looks like Becton back to RT. I guess I don't understand why Becton can switch to RT but Brown can't. I do understand wanting to have the best 5 out there, especially with all the injuries. I wonder who the RG will be.
This is stupid.
RG will probably be Mitchell/Turner until Saffold is ready
Brown - Tomlinson - Tippmann - Saffold - Becton
Post by: MBGreen on November 01, 2023, 12:48:53 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 01, 2023, 12:50:32 PM
He'll tear his shoulder again in practice and it'll be a non-issue.Hopefully he can wait and do that Monday so he can be our soul we sacrifice for a win.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 12:54:00 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2023, 12:58:02 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 01, 2023, 02:03:11 PM
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2023, 02:08:04 PM
i don't know why we're trying to pigeon-hole everybody else around brown at LT, when he isn't even good anymore. i have huge doubts he's even included in a 'best-5' configuration for us.Really comes down to how you feel about Mitchell.
Is Brown LT/Becton RT better than Becton LT/Mitchell RT?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2023, 02:13:28 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 01, 2023, 02:24:41 PM
Really comes down to how you feel about Mitchell.
Is Brown LT/Becton RT better than Becton LT/Mitchell RT?
Well his first question was "Why is Becton LT/Brown RT" automatically not an option?
Post by: Johnny English on November 01, 2023, 02:29:47 PM
Just play Becton on whatever side Bosa or Maxx Crosby are on
So he can deal with them like he did Thibodeaux?
Post by: insanity on November 01, 2023, 02:38:37 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 01, 2023, 02:48:36 PM
Really comes down to how you feel about Mitchell.
Is Brown LT/Becton RT better than Becton LT/Mitchell RT?
do i think becton LT / mitchell RT is better than brown LT / becton RT? yes
there's no way of proving this but part of me believes that we mercy-IR'd him after week 2 because of how horribly he played, to try and give him more time to get match-fit. mufuggas were literally just running by him untouched as he went through the motions in pass pro. he looked extremely slow and old.
i don't know if this time off will make him any more better or ready, but blindly assuming that because he is a vet is the reason why rodgers' achilles exploded on his 4th play as a jet.
Post by: reuben on November 01, 2023, 02:49:31 PM
Becton Redemption Tour continues
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 02:51:20 PM
https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1719779429340074003 (https://twitter.com/snyjets/status/1719779429340074003)
Becton Redemption Tour continues
For all the credit we give Rodgers for helping Zach, I think we need to start looking at guys like Duane Brown and Billy Turner as solid mentors for our young OL like Becton, Mitchell, and Tippmann.
Turner seems to be really supportive for Mekhi.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 01, 2023, 03:16:59 PM
For all the credit we give Rodgers for helping Zach, I think we need to start looking at guys like Duane Brown and Billy Turner as solid mentors for our young OL like Becton, Mitchell, and Tippmann.
Turner seems to be really supportive for Mekhi.
I don't know who got through to him, but that's a completely different answer than he's given in the past and shows a ton of maturity. It's as night and day as Zach going from "No" to being humble and accepting more than his fair share of responsibility every week.
Some credit probably belongs to the coaching staff and maybe the front office too. When guys look like they might be cancerous, they get shown the exit. Saleh seems happy to go to bat for guys as long as they STFU, keep their heads down, and work. Feels like a much higher-character clubhouse these days.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 01, 2023, 03:25:02 PM
For all the credit we give Rodgers for helping Zach, I think we need to start looking at guys like Duane Brown and Billy Turner as solid mentors for our young OL like Becton, Mitchell, and Tippmann.And while I'm not a big fan of Lazard or Cobb on the field, I think both seem like great mentors for Zach and Garrett.
Turner seems to be really supportive for Mekhi.
This seems like a very good locker room.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 01, 2023, 03:40:05 PM
Quote
LT Duane Brown, who will return to practice tomorrow, said his surgically repaired shoulder is stronger and has a better range of motion than early in the season. In retrospect, he admitted he returned too soon. He wants to see how he practices this week before declaring himself ready to return from his groin injury (listed by the #Jets as a hip injury).
Post by: Heismanberg on November 01, 2023, 04:25:30 PM
And while I'm not a big fan of Lazard or Cobb on the field, I think both seem like great mentors for Zach and Garrett.
This seems like a very good locker room.
Uzomah and Conklin are both "glue" guys. We still need Ruckert to get more reps to develop because we aren't going to be able to keep both.
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2023, 06:11:01 PM
Well his first question was "Why is Becton LT/Brown RT" automatically not an option?I'm just assuming it isn't and moving on.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 01, 2023, 09:52:09 PM
So he can deal with them like he did Thibodeaux?
Do you think Max Mitchell would have done better? Becton had a bad game and was still our highest graded OL
https://x.com/talkingiants/status/1719009372099973580?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2023, 03:31:04 PM
Come on Zach
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2023, 03:38:07 PM
https://x.com/BallsDeepInYm3/status/1720499839283142837?s=20
Come on Zach
This nearly happened 14 more times
Post by: Heismanberg on November 03, 2023, 03:39:16 PM
Lawrence bullrushed and McGovern's kneecap dislocated. That shouldn't happened.
Post by: Jumbo on November 03, 2023, 04:21:59 PM
That turf is deadly, man.
Lawrence bullrushed and McGovern's kneecap dislocated. That shouldn't happened.
It's actually disgusting that a relatively new stadium is shared by two different teams in the biggest market in the US and yet it both looks and plays like complete excrement
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2023, 04:30:11 PM
It's actually disgusting that a relatively new stadium is shared by two different teams in the biggest market in the US and yet it both looks and plays like complete excrementBut at least you can buy mushy crinkle cut fries all over the stadium.
Post by: Jumbo on November 03, 2023, 04:51:20 PM
But at least you can buy mushy crinkle cut fries all over the stadium.
They should just set up some halal carts all over the stadium, it'd be a massive improvement over the kids menu tier stuff that's sold now
Post by: bojanglesman on November 03, 2023, 05:30:41 PM
They should just set up some halal carts all over the stadium, it'd be a massive improvement over the kids menu tier stuff that's sold now
Shila Cart!
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 05, 2023, 08:43:13 PM
That turf is deadly, man.
Lawrence bullrushed and McGovern's kneecap dislocated. That shouldn't happened.
Yeah I had the same exact thought. The nature of the injury felt
Very much turf related
Post by: Johnny English on November 05, 2023, 09:52:05 PM
Yeah I had the same exact thought. The nature of the injury feltYeah but think about how much money Woody and Mara are saving. Why don't you care about their bank balances?
Very much turf related
Post by: Badger on November 06, 2023, 09:51:19 PM
I'm writing a strongly worded email to Joe D right now
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2023, 09:55:10 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2023, 09:55:33 PM
We've thrown so many resources into the position, and it just is a disaster every year. And it can never stay healthy.
Yup. Best player we drafted still hasn't played a full season's worth of games.
Post by: Badger on November 06, 2023, 10:00:22 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 06, 2023, 10:01:21 PM
Billy Turner might be my new Wayne Hunter
He’s worse
Post by: reuben on November 06, 2023, 10:02:59 PM
Post by: reuben on November 06, 2023, 10:05:34 PM
We've thrown so many resources into the position, and it just is a disaster every year. And it can never stay healthy.
We really haven't. It just seems like we have because we completely neglected the unit for a decade.
Spending two firsts and a second and expecting to have 5+ good players is dumb.
Post by: Badger on November 06, 2023, 10:07:47 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2023, 10:12:45 PM
We really haven't. It just seems like we have because we completely neglected the unit for a decade.Since Joe Douglas arrived, he has spent two 1st-round picks, a 2nd-round pick, three 4th-round picks, and he's signed Connor McGovern, George Fant, Laken Tomlinson, Morgan Moses, Duane Brown, and a ton of veteran interior linemen. That's a lot in 4 offseasons to have as bad as OL as we have now.
Spending two firsts and a second and expecting to have 5+ good players is dumb.
Most offensive lines in the NFL aren't very good. No team really has 5+ good players. But we basically have one average OT who rarely plays in Becton, a good OL who barely plays in AVT, and Tippmann, who is hopefully good but has barely played. The AVT stuff is pretty unlucky, but the rest of the OL needs to be better.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2023, 10:16:41 PM
He’s worse
A meaningless distinction.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2023, 10:18:47 PM
Wrong thread, but right thread kind of.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2023, 10:19:47 PM
We really haven't. It just seems like we have because we completely neglected the unit for a decade.
Spending two firsts and a second and expecting to have 5+ good players is dumb.
The draft picks aren't the only resource. The best OL we got in free agency we let walk the next season.
Post by: reuben on November 06, 2023, 10:24:58 PM
Since Joe Douglas arrived, he has spent two 1st-round picks, a 2nd-round pick, three 4th-round picks, and he's signed Connor McGovern, George Fant, Laken Tomlinson, Morgan Moses, Duane Brown, and a ton of veteran interior linemen. That's a lot in 4 offseasons to have as bad as OL as we have now.
We have exactly the line we deserve. I might even argue that it's better than what we deserve, because we shouldn't have counted on Mekhi Becton to be as stable as he has been.
Ice Cream Truck Mentality got you thinking we deserve a quality starter from Day Three. Day Three doesn't owe us excrement and the Ice Cream Truck is a myth. Build the line until it's built or pay the consequences.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2023, 10:26:41 PM
We have exactly the line we deserve. I might even argue that it's better than what we deserve, because we shouldn't have counted on Mekhi Becton to be as stable as he has been.
Ice Cream Truck Mentality got you thinking we deserve a quality starter from Day Three. Day Three doesn't owe us excrement and the Ice Cream Truck is a myth. Build the line until it's built or pay the consequences.
I don't understand what the Ice Cream Truck is supposed to mean but asking a team to get serviceable talent out of at least one of it's late round picks isn't an unreasonable thought.
We put a lot of resources into either having good starters or having players in the background we could develop or help step in when they're needed. That hasn't delivered on numerous levels.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 06, 2023, 10:30:34 PM
We have exactly the line we deserve. I might even argue that it's better than what we deserve, because we shouldn't have counted on Mekhi Becton to be as stable as he has been.Douglas has had 21 picks in the first 4 rounds
Ice Cream Truck Mentality got you thinking we deserve a quality starter from Day Three. Day Three doesn't owe us excrement and the Ice Cream Truck is a myth. Build the line until it's built or pay the consequences.
- 2 quarterbacks (still no QB)
- 3 WRs (team only has 1 startable WR)
- 6 offensive linemen (OL still sucks)
The biggest problems on our team this year have been the OL, QB and WR. Douglas has spent a ton of draft capital on those positions, and all 3 positions are among the worst in the NFL every year. He's also signed a bunch of free agent OL and WR.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 06, 2023, 11:07:32 PM
Stay or go, I think he winds up with a short term “prove it” deal.
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 08:55:25 AM
And before any of you chime in...yes he's better than OhBilly Turner.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 07, 2023, 08:59:00 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 07, 2023, 08:59:59 AM
I probably would've signed Lael Collins.
And before any of you chime in...yes he's better than OhBilly Turner.
No one else signed him either.....but they don't have as bad of a line as we do. I wonder how much he was asking for. He isn't worth a lot of $$
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 09:04:45 AM
Spending two firsts and a second and expecting to have 5+ good players is dumb.
Lol this hilarious
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 09:09:13 AM
I probably would've signed Lael Collins.
And before any of you chime in...yes he's better than OhBilly Turner.
Is he healthier? Because 32 teams still haven't signed La'el Collins.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 07, 2023, 09:09:52 AM
Since Joe Douglas arrived, he has spent two 1st-round picks, a 2nd-round pick, three 4th-round picks, and he's signed Connor McGovern, George Fant, Laken Tomlinson, Morgan Moses, Duane Brown, and a ton of veteran interior linemen. That's a lot in 4 offseasons to have as bad as OL as we have now.
Most offensive lines in the NFL aren't very good. No team really has 5+ good players. But we basically have one average OT who rarely plays in Becton, a good OL who barely plays in AVT, and Tippmann, who is hopefully good but has barely played. The AVT stuff is pretty unlucky, but the rest of the OL needs to be better.
Do any of those free agent signings move the needle for you? Are any of those guys even average to above average?
We passed on Tristan Wirfs for Becton
AVT is great but Darrisaw is probably better
Douglas has not been good with his OL construction.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2023, 09:09:58 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 09:14:54 AM
We should just start Carter Warren to see what we've got
(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_2469,h_1388,x_0,y_199/c_fill,w_2160,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/images%2FGettyImages%2Fmmsport%2F30%2F01gzks41es9x098z1b9w.jpg)
I'm listening.
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 09:16:00 AM
Is he healthier? Because 32 teams still haven't signed La'el Collins.
Doctors cleared him.
32 other teams have better olines than we do.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 09:16:16 AM
Doctors cleared him.
32 other teams have better olines than we do.
Math harder.
Post by: MBGreen on November 07, 2023, 09:19:47 AM
Math harder.
not before noon.
and my point is still correct.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 07, 2023, 09:23:50 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 09:26:56 AM
The state of NFL offensive lines around the league is so bad that Turner has been a starter in this league for a long time despite being awful. Might as well see what Warren can do. I imagine Brown is next man up though.
Doesn't mean we have to keep Turner active.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on November 07, 2023, 11:18:26 AM
Jets rank 24th in "Pass-Block-Win-Rate" at 50%
Jets rank 18th in "Run-Block-Win-Rate" at 70%
If you are wondering who is below us in PBWR
25th - Giants
26th - Falcons
27th - Rams
28th - Colts
29th - Saints
30th - Bengals
31st - Jaguars
32nd - Patriots
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 07, 2023, 12:11:32 PM
Nice
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231107/5a11c548be6786367deee68450ff14b2.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on November 07, 2023, 12:55:20 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2023, 11:48:31 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 13, 2023, 03:51:17 PM
Quote
PFF SEA Seahawks
@PFF_Seahawks
Jason Peters vs. the Commanders
35 pass blocking snaps
1 pressure allowed
0 sacks allowed
JD is shopping on the wrong scrap heaps.
Post by: Johnny English on November 13, 2023, 03:52:53 PM
JD is shopping on the wrong scrap heaps.
It seems increasingly clear that neither JD nor anyone in his scouting department really knows what they're doing when it comes to evaluating linemen.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 13, 2023, 04:15:43 PM
It seems increasingly clear that neither JD nor anyone in his scouting department really knows what they're doing when it comes to evaluating linemen.
This has been true for years.
Post by: Johnny English on November 13, 2023, 04:18:34 PM
This has been true for years.
I mean, it might help if we weren't changing our OC on an annual basis, and actually had some kind of consistent offensive identity and scheme that we could draft and hire players suitable for. But I realise that I might as well ask Santa for a pink unicorn with a 12" dick.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 13, 2023, 04:24:43 PM
I mean, it might help if we weren't changing our OC on an annual basis, and actually had some kind of consistent offensive identity and scheme that we could draft and hire players suitable for. But I realise that I might as well ask Santa for a pink unicorn with a 12" dick.
Since you didn't specify "live" I'm assuming you can just ask Amazon for that.
Post by: Johnny English on November 13, 2023, 04:27:02 PM
Since you didn't specify "live" I'm assuming you can just ask Amazon for that.
You may be right but I'm not putting that in my search history.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2023, 04:29:45 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 14, 2023, 10:17:55 AM
We have claimed OL Austin Deculus off of waivers.
Tanzel Smart waived in a corresponding move.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 14, 2023, 10:23:39 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 14, 2023, 10:24:48 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 14, 2023, 10:28:04 AM
Smart is a JAG.
Definitely. Just a good story. Clearly a nice guy, has a good family. But we need more than that and he's very expendable. Tough business.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 14, 2023, 12:35:17 PM
Smart is a JAG.
And Austin Deculus is a what
Post by: Heismanberg on November 14, 2023, 12:40:37 PM
And Austin Deculus is a what
we need more JAGs on the OL right now
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 14, 2023, 12:45:43 PM
And Austin Deculus is a what
A JAG in a position we need as opposed to a JAG in a surplus position.
Tanzel Smart was fun on Hard Knocks but he’s about as useful of a resource as WMD has been.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 14, 2023, 12:47:21 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 14, 2023, 12:55:00 PM
Don’t disagree with anything that’s been said but our DT rotation is like 3 guys rn
Q, JFM, Jefferson, Thomas, Clemons
We're also using that inverted look a lot where JJ goes to DT. It's been great.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 14, 2023, 01:01:24 PM
Post by: Badger on November 14, 2023, 01:54:46 PM
And Austin Deculus is a whatA Harry Potter character
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 14, 2023, 02:18:41 PM
A Harry Potter character
Checking his Twitter feed for coded transphobia or racism.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 18, 2023, 07:17:44 PM
Who the freak are these people
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 18, 2023, 07:18:25 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 18, 2023, 07:18:52 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/1GN0MHZ/IMG-2288.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nMywBhr)Our demise
Who the freak are these people
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 18, 2023, 07:21:01 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 18, 2023, 07:36:50 PM
Is elevating Saffold not an option?No
Post by: Badger on November 18, 2023, 08:42:33 PM
Why would Zach Wilson do thisJosh Dobbs would never
Post by: Johnny English on November 18, 2023, 10:58:43 PM
Is elevating Saffold not an option?
Yes, a PS player can be activated any time up to the point when inactives are announced which is something like two hours before kick off. Can do it three times before you have to add them to the full roster.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 19, 2023, 01:14:51 AM
Yes, a PS player can be activated any time up to the point when inactives are announced which is something like two hours before kick off. Can do it three times before you have to add them to the full roster.
Just checking to make sure there wouldn’t be any restriction on him outside of his ability to comprehend the playbook or outperform the collection ‘who even is this?” currently on the roster.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 19, 2023, 04:02:36 PM
Post by: reuben on November 19, 2023, 07:00:35 PM
Mekhi Becton is probably dunzo, but we should have known that in 2022.
AVT is now an injury prone player in my book until proven otherwise.
Laken Tomlinson is due just shy of $19 million next season and is worth about a third of that if we're being generous. $10 million dead cap, nice little situation Joe Douglas built for us there.
Max Mitchell is not an NFL player.
Maybe Carter Warren can play football? That'd be swell.
By my count that's one plus lineman going into next season. But damn that Will MacDonald spi9n move is DOPE
Post by: Heismanberg on November 19, 2023, 07:02:07 PM
Post by: Badger on November 19, 2023, 07:14:02 PM
Laken Tomlinson is due just shy of $19 million next season
How the freak
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 19, 2023, 07:15:05 PM
Saw a number of high snaps today. Might be better counting on Joe Tippmann to be a guard. He did well there and we have the luxury of needing help at every freaking position, so no total loss.
Mekhi Becton is probably dunzo, but we should have known that in 2022.
AVT is now an injury prone player in my book until proven otherwise.
Laken Tomlinson is due just shy of $19 million next season and is worth about a third of that if we're being generous. $10 million dead cap, nice little situation Joe Douglas built for us there.
Max Mitchell is not an NFL player.
Maybe Carter Warren can play football? That'd be swell.
By my count that's one plus lineman going into next season. But damn that Will MacDonald spi9n move is DOPE
If our big QB acquisition didn't go down 4 plays into the season I'd be more pissed off about the Will McDonald pick but as it stands it's a wash anyway.
LT: Literally no one on this roster.
LG: Tomlinson
C: Tippmann - he didn't put the ball over anyone's head so I'll count that as an improvement over the pre-season. He has the rest of the year to prove he can/can't play this position
RG: AVT - I'm more comfortable him here than outside. Either way we need a back-up who can actually play if/when AVT gets hurt or Tomlinson is bad enough he can lose his job to a cheap player.
RT: Same as LT
Warren Carter is still a developmental prospect unless he becomes a lights out player by the end of the season which I'm not holding my breath for. The rest of the depth can freak off.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 19, 2023, 07:15:19 PM
How the freak
Douglas is not a cap guy.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 19, 2023, 07:21:44 PM
Douglas is not a cap guy.
You tell Laken he's making a couple of bucks more than his dead cap in 2024 or he can freak off and we can save $8 million.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 19, 2023, 07:22:33 PM
How the freak
That's what happens when you restructure an overpriced FA acquisition that isn't working out. That's how C.J. Mosely is making like $24 million or some excrement this season.
I still am in the camp that even though we will incur some dead money, the $$ we save by cutting Captain Flags at TE and Tomlinson will save us $20 million which we can use to sign 2 starting level offensive players. However, we will keep Tomlinson under the guise of 'we can't bring in 5 new OL' and 'he's the only healthy guy we've got"
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 19, 2023, 07:27:51 PM
That's what happens when you restructure an overpriced FA acquisition that isn't working out. That's how C.J. Mosely is making like $24 million or some excrement this season.
I still am in the camp that even though we will incur some dead money, the $$ we save by cutting Captain Flags at TE and Tomlinson will save us $20 million which we can use to sign 2 starting level offensive players. However, we will keep Tomlinson under the guise of 'we can't bring in 5 new OL' and 'he's the only healthy guy we've got"
It's sad how much this matters. Dude has been one of the only OL we've had play two full seasons.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 19, 2023, 07:28:34 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 19, 2023, 07:33:57 PM
It's sad how much this matters. Dude has been one of the only OL we've had play two full seasons.
He's the only one who has come close.
We have played 14 freaking OL this year. 14! 6 straight games with a new combination, and you have to assume it will be 7 with Becton sitting on a short week after whatever happened to him today.
I thought just by plain 'regression to the mean' luck, we would be healthier on the OL last year, because we got down to like OT 7. Well, technically out OTs have been healthier, but the rest of the line has been decimated.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 19, 2023, 07:35:03 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 19, 2023, 07:36:21 PM
He's the only one who has come close.
We have played 14 freaking OL this year. 14! 6 straight games with a new combination, and you have to assume it will be 7 with Becton sitting on a short week after whatever happened to him today.
I thought just by plain 'regression to the mean' luck, we would be healthier on the OL last year, because we got down to like OT 7. Well, technically out OTs have been healthier, but the rest of the line has been decimated.
McGovern has down two healthy seasons but they weren't consecutive. He missed one game in 2021.
The injury issue is insane. It goes all the way back to Gase's 2nd season.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 19, 2023, 07:39:40 PM
What if Will McDonald is good? He looks like he can be good. The next OT drafted was Anton Harrison who isn't playing well, and that was at 27.
Yeah, we didn’t pass on a tackle or a guard for him.
Michael Mayer was our top rated offensive player. That would’ve been a ridiculous pick.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 19, 2023, 07:43:27 PM
Yeah, we didn’t pass on a tackle or a guard for him.1JD around the draft was a mixed bag. On one hand, seeing JD predict the Steelers-Patriots trade was cool and made you think he had a plan. But Mayer with that pick would have been embarrassingly bad. There were rumors right before the draft that the Jets loved Mayer, but I just hoped they were fake. And I don't think Mayer is a bad prospect, but you can't take him at 15.
Michael Mayer was our top rated offensive player. That would’ve been a ridiculous pick.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 19, 2023, 08:19:31 PM
Why do shitty players stay healthy?
freak this is the Jets roster recently in a nutshell
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 19, 2023, 08:20:40 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 19, 2023, 08:32:57 PM
Joe Douglas having no interest in Broderick Jones is a fireable offense
He did have interest in him. He was drafted before we picked.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 19, 2023, 08:41:51 PM
He did have interest in him. He was drafted before we picked.
https://x.com/boygreen25/status/1661900343829995522?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
JD wanted to roll with Duane Brown and Billy Turner
Post by: Heismanberg on November 19, 2023, 08:42:47 PM
https://x.com/boygreen25/status/1661900343829995522?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
JD wanted to roll with Duane Brown and Billy Turner
Did we pass on him?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 19, 2023, 08:49:50 PM
Did we pass on him?We don't know what would have happened if they were on the board at the same time.
If we rolled into the season with Turner and Brown as the starters with Jones still on the board then Douglas should have been ridden out on a rail. Luckily for him that wasn't the case and Becton looked at least middling by the time the season rolled around.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 19, 2023, 08:56:56 PM
Did we pass on him?
Joe Douglas Lied!
Post by: reuben on November 19, 2023, 09:44:46 PM
"Broderick Jones wasn't available at our pick" and "we wouldn't have drafted him if he was" aren't valid excuses for me. Whether Joe fucked up because he got trade-raped or Joe fucked up because he can't evaluate offensive linemen, or both, the key takeaway for me is that Joe fucked up.
I don't dislike WMD. I'm looking forward to his career. But I hate and hated the WMD pick. Those sentiments aren't mutually exclusive.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 19, 2023, 10:20:14 PM
Joe Douglas traded out of a spot where arguably the best tackle of the draft would have been available.
This is a wild overreaction
Post by: Coach K on November 19, 2023, 10:34:00 PM
Anyone know what the FA class for OL is looking like ?
Clearly OL and WR are tbe biggest needs by a freaking mile .
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 09:38:41 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on November 20, 2023, 09:40:04 AM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1726618309670686953?t=UUGNeF1u_UTIaaIqthzmyA&s=19
Well there's that.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 20, 2023, 09:49:30 AM
Chubb and Phillips are going to destroy us
Post by: MBGreen on November 20, 2023, 10:00:45 AM
big man with an ankle injury, even if it's minor...I'm thinking he's out at least this week.
Chubb and Phillips are going to destroy us
I forgot Jalen Ramsey is back. So our passing game will get dogwalked again too.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 20, 2023, 10:08:00 AM
I forgot Jalen Ramsey is back. So our passing game will get dogwalked again too.
Not with Tim Boyle in the mix
Post by: Johnny English on November 21, 2023, 11:16:37 AM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1726991564449485151
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 21, 2023, 11:31:02 AM
I don't know how real this guy is, but according to this we have the worst graded pass blocking at C in the league.
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1726991564449485151
He’s probably the best analytics guy on twitter unfortunately
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2023, 11:49:17 AM
Are the stats for the Bills game out?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2023, 11:53:06 AM
I'm not going to worry about him with only 2 starts at the position.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2023, 12:12:33 PM
He is the worst starting tackle in the NFL.
Post by: Coach K on November 21, 2023, 12:16:04 PM
No way that a tackle group with Max Mitchell has a grade of 54.Yeah im not buying it
He is the worst starting tackle in the NFL.
RG has sucked aside from when Tippman or AVT played there so im almost certain he's attributing anything up the A gap to Center failure.
Which is dumb for other reasons .
We not only lose blocks interior off the snap but teams have been blitzing up the gut routinely half the season .
And our backs blitz pickup reads look like hellen Keller is coaching them
I haven't say down and watched a ton of all 22 but I know for a fact these things are true just live during the game its obvious to everyone which is why we're a joke and historically bad lol
And Mitchell gets beat so bad stepping up into the pocket is just feeding our QBs to tbe blitz and stunts
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 21, 2023, 01:00:53 PM
Yeah im not buying it
RG has sucked aside from when Tippman or AVT played there so im almost certain he's attributing anything up the A gap to Center failure.
Which is dumb for other reasons .
We not only lose blocks interior off the snap but teams have been blitzing up the gut routinely half the season .
And our backs blitz pickup reads look like hellen Keller is coaching them
I haven't say down and watched a ton of all 22 but I know for a fact these things are true just live during the game its obvious to everyone which is why we're a joke and historically bad lol
And Mitchell gets beat so bad stepping up into the pocket is just feeding our QBs to tbe blitz and stunts
There was a sack this week where Cook was close enough to do at least something, but he was all alone, turned, watched, then his shoulders slumped and you could almost hear him just say "Oh..."
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2023, 01:03:48 PM
There was a sack this week where Cook was close enough to do at least something, but he was all alone, turned, watched, then his shoulders slumped and you could almost hear him just say "Oh..."
If a back isn't blocking that's on the QB 9 times out of 10.
Connor Rogers constantly brings up the fact that we're consistently really late to get the snap off. The QB never has time to really scan the field or make too many checks.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2023, 01:09:02 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 21, 2023, 01:23:19 PM
If a back isn't blocking that's on the QB 9 times out of 10.
Connor Rogers constantly brings up the fact that we're consistently really late to get the snap off. The QB never has time to really scan the field or make too many checks.
The play I'm thinking of, Cook looked shipwrecked. He was all alone with nothing to do, and when he saw (Oliver?) going past and then hitting Zach he just kind of slumped with a "My bad." I'll take your word for it, but it felt like it was the 1 out of 10 when I saw it.
I've brought up the clock thing a few times. It's so bad. And it's not even a new problem. This has been as long as I can remember with this team. They're always down to 5 or less seconds before the snap. Bart loves to bring up how at that point he's just getting a head start because it's near impossible for him to wind up offsides at that point.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2023, 01:23:43 PM
So how much more injured can this OLine get?
Carter Warren - Laken Tomlinson - Joe Tippmann - Chris Glaser - Max Mitchell
The is the worst offensive line we've ever put on a field, mainly because of the right side of it.
Maybe the silver lining here is Carter Warren. What if he's actually good? It's about time we found some OL gold in the middle rounds.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 21, 2023, 01:29:20 PM
Carter Warren - Laken Tomlinson - Joe Tippmann - Chris Glaser - Max Mitchell
The is the worst offensive line we've ever put on a field, mainly because of the right side of it.
Maybe the silver lining here is Carter Warren. What if he's actually good? It's about time we found some OL gold in the middle rounds.
(https://media.tenor.com/blPzNl5Ba5oAAAAC/dont-give-me-hope.gif)
Post by: Coach K on November 21, 2023, 02:20:33 PM
Carter Warren - Laken Tomlinson - Joe Tippmann - Chris Glaser - Max MitchellHe actually played solid all things considered
The is the worst offensive line we've ever put on a field, mainly because of the right side of it.
Maybe the silver lining here is Carter Warren. What if he's actually good? It's about time we found some OL gold in the middle rounds.
It might be the only bright spot to come out of this abortion
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2023, 02:26:29 PM
Ideally, either Warren or Mitchell turns into a guy you can go into next year as a 1A or 1B option at one OL spot. We really need that to be the case. Mitchell seems to be regressing, so that seems unlikely. But we've drafted a number of mid-round OL, and none have been good recently. Need someone to hit.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 21, 2023, 02:49:06 PM
He actually played solid all things considered
It might be the only bright spot to come out of this abortion
He got embarrassed by Ed Oliver several times
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 22, 2023, 11:49:23 AM
Sick
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 22, 2023, 11:50:20 AM
Post by: MBGreen on November 22, 2023, 03:15:27 PM
@antwanstaley
The Jets have released OL Dennis Kelly. That opens a roster spot
Post by: Heismanberg on November 22, 2023, 03:17:02 PM
Antwan V. Staley
@antwanstaley
The Jets have released OL Dennis Kelly. That opens a roster spot
lol
another one of Joe's veteran OL moves
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 03:17:04 PM
Antwan V. Staley
@antwanstaley
The Jets have released OL Dennis Kelly. That opens a roster spot
For who?
"The Jets have activated DL Tanzel Smart off the practice squad."
Post by: bojanglesman on November 22, 2023, 04:26:39 PM
For who?
"The Jets have activated DL Tanzel Smart off the practice squad."
Might need an extra punter to save the load on Morstead's leg.
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2023, 04:55:32 PM
He got embarrassed by Ed Oliver several timesCarter Warren?
Or Chris Glaser ?
I'm talking carter Warren
Either way this OL gonna get bent over Friday .
Post by: Coach K on November 22, 2023, 04:56:48 PM
For who?Only to out him back Saturday morning lol
"The Jets have activated DL Tanzel Smart off the practice squad."
Post by: reuben on November 22, 2023, 07:10:56 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 22, 2023, 07:26:54 PM
Did we ship Kelly because Xavier Newman is back or because Rodger Saffold is ready to play? I know we're not in the business of cutting linemen just because they stink.
Billy Turner was a full go in practice but I don't think he was ever off the roster, so we didn't need to cut Kelly to make room for him. And I know they didn't decide that they had too many available OL because surely not even this staff could look at what happened in the Giants game and come to that conclusion.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2023, 07:45:06 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 22, 2023, 08:08:16 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 08:17:24 PM
Could be Brown. If they activate him they'll need to make room.
He has to be activated this week or his season is over, doesn't he?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2023, 08:19:26 PM
He has to be activated this week or his season is over, doesn't he?
Correct. If they don't activate him he's on perm IR for the remainder of the season.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 08:19:44 PM
I swear, if they somehow manage to cobble together a line that performs OK against Miami's not especially terrifying pass rush (although Wilkins / Chubb has strong Lawrence / Thibodeuax vibes) and create a narrative that dumping Zach fixed things, I'm going to lose my excrement.
I wouldn't be shocked if Boyle guides this team to a win this week. He may suck, but limited film on a short week isn't helping Miami.
I'll take it though. Just keep finding ways to stay in the hunt until Rodgers can return. IDGAF, I'm not giving up on this season till it's mathematically over.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 08:21:15 PM
Correct. If they don't activate him he's on perm IR for the remainder of the season.
Yeah, it's got to be for him then. They may "healthy" scratch him, but there's no way they're not going to have him to call on if Rodgers returns.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2023, 08:27:35 PM
Yeah, it's got to be for him then. They may "healthy" scratch him, but there's no way they're not going to have him to call on if Rodgers returns.
I'm just pointing it out as another possibility.
He also could have violated some team rule or some excrement, IDK.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 22, 2023, 09:17:00 PM
I'm just pointing it out as another possibility.
He also could have violated some team rule or some excrement, IDK.
True, but I still don't see why they wouldn't activate Brown this week rather than lose him for the rest of the year. Even if he's not ready yet, if there's even a slight chance Rodgers returns, you have to have the "best" line you can muster when he does.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 22, 2023, 11:14:56 PM
True, but I still don't see why they wouldn't activate Brown this week rather than lose him for the rest of the year. Even if he's not ready yet, if there's even a slight chance Rodgers returns, you have to have the "best" line you can muster when he does.Because he's still too injured to play and wouldn't be fully cleared by the doctors. That's why they wouldn't activate him.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 23, 2023, 08:04:29 AM
Because he's still too injured to play and wouldn't be fully cleared by the doctors. That's why they wouldn't activate him.
But if they don't activate him now he can't return at all. If you plan on needing him, you sacrifice the roster spot today for the return in a few weeks. Just because you activate him doesn't mean you have to play or even dress him.
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2023, 08:21:15 AM
I swear, if they somehow manage to cobble together a line that performs OK against Miami's not especially terrifying pass rush (although Wilkins / Chubb has strong Lawrence / Thibodeuax vibes) and create a narrative that dumping Zach fixed things, I'm going to lose my excrement.I think the last part of me that harbored such feelings is dead. Just give me a W, narratives be damned.
Post by: Coach K on November 23, 2023, 08:36:58 AM
I think the last part of me that harbored such feelings is dead. Just give me a W, narratives be damned.This x100
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2023, 09:40:24 AM
But if they don't activate him now he can't return at all. If you plan on needing him, you sacrifice the roster spot today for the return in a few weeks. Just because you activate him doesn't mean you have to play or even dress him.
JFC, dude.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 23, 2023, 10:18:18 AM
If he's not gonna be ready until the end of the year just let him go to IR now. No different than if we put him there to start with.
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 23, 2023, 11:06:53 AM
JFC, dude.
?
If you don't think he's going to get healthy, okay. No, you don't activate him. But if you think he can come back at least at the same time as Rodgers, he's better than almost everyone else we have available on the line. I'd rather "waste" a roster spot on an offensive tackle that can potentially help keep Rodgers safe than bump Tanzel Smart up to the active roster for the 10th time.
Now if you believe the season is over, fine. Forget him altogether. But I doubt I'm unlike the coaching staff and front office in hoping that we can still find ways to float until Rodgers can get on the field. I understand if you don't feel the same, but in terms of playing to still get in the playoffs, assuming you think he will get healthy, my perspective makes sense.
A lot of "if"s, of course. But this staff doesn't appear to just be going through the motions of a lost season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2023, 11:10:35 AM
I was mostly joking in the "season is over" thread but if the Jets win this week, and Boyle doesn't completely suck, then you start to look at the Falcons game as a realistic chance to get to 6-6. Finding a way to win will be very difficult but that's what the staff needs to try to find a way to accomplish.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2023, 11:25:47 AM
?No
If you don't think he's going to get healthy, okay. No, you don't activate him. But if you think he can come back at least at the same time as Rodgers, he's better than almost everyone else we have available on the line. I'd rather "waste" a roster spot on an offensive tackle that can potentially help keep Rodgers safe than bump Tanzel Smart up to the active roster for the 10th time.
Now if you believe the season is over, fine. Forget him altogether. But I doubt I'm unlike the coaching staff and front office in hoping that we can still find ways to float until Rodgers can get on the field. I understand if you don't feel the same, but in terms of playing to still get in the playoffs, assuming you think he will get healthy, my perspective makes sense.
A lot of "if"s, of course. But this staff doesn't appear to just be going through the motions of a lost season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
Argument is moot, he's back. Hopefully he can actually play, as opposed to whatever he was doing the first couple of games.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2023, 12:56:31 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 23, 2023, 07:24:13 PM
I wouldn't be shocked if Boyle guides this team to a win this week. He may suck, but limited film on a short week isn't helping Miami.
I'll take it though. Just keep finding ways to stay in the hunt until Rodgers can return. IDGAF, I'm not giving up on this season till it's mathematically over.
The limited film: just stand right where you are and hold both arms up
Post by: MBGreen on November 25, 2023, 12:00:10 PM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
Robert Saleh said he thinks the #Jets could get back Duane Brown, Mekhi Becton and Wes Schweitzer this week.
Tim Boil 350 yard game incoming...
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 25, 2023, 12:27:17 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 25, 2023, 12:46:56 PM
Tim Boil 350 yard game incoming...
It will be incredible to see how improved we are by having Schweitzer instead of Newman, and to get Max Mitchell the freak off the field.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 25, 2023, 01:56:06 PM
Tim Boil 350 yard game incoming...
This will just give him more time to decide where to get intercepted.
Post by: MBGreen on November 25, 2023, 01:57:54 PM
This will just give him more time to decide where to get intercepted.He can get intercepted....waiting in the arbys drive-thru for his 2 beef n cheddars
Post by: Johnny English on December 06, 2023, 09:16:17 PM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1732467429228392856
Post by: reuben on December 06, 2023, 10:30:44 PM
Can anyone tell me if this is good?
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1732467429228392856
It says Objective right at the top and Official right before that. Surely then this list is a fundamental law of nature from which all other truths can be deduced.
Post by: Johnny English on December 06, 2023, 10:34:34 PM
It says Objective right at the top and Official right before that. Surely then this list is a fundamental law of nature from which all other truths can be deduced.I was told that this guy was to be believed.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 07, 2023, 08:14:53 AM
I was told that this guy was to be believed.
Do the teams at the bottom of the list have bad OLs? Do the teams at the top of the list have good OLs?
Again, these are useful because A) OL play is hard to evaluate and B) no causal fans have the ability to watch all 32 teams on a week to week basis
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 07, 2023, 08:15:47 AM
Post by: Jumbo on December 07, 2023, 09:52:58 AM
Also, these aren’t even his metrics, they’re just an aggregation of the best available grading systems
idk man I think the Jets OL is good at pass blocking, maybe the best of all of the teams I watched that participated in the Jets Giants game. Not sure how reliable this is
Post by: reuben on December 07, 2023, 10:26:53 AM
idk man I think the Jets OL is good at pass blocking, maybe the best of all of the teams I watched that participated in the Jets Giants game. Not sure how reliable this is
Assign a numerical grade from -2 to 2 to your opinion, hit it with a percentage, and then boom you got yourself some objective official.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 07, 2023, 12:46:59 PM
Assign a numerical grade from -2 to 2 to your opinion, hit it with a percentage, and then boom you got yourself some objective official.
If you give each Jets OL -2 on every play, math checks out
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 08, 2023, 11:10:09 AM
Quote
With Schweitzer out, this will be the 8th straight game in which the #Jets change their O-line. If you're scoring at home, the number of different starters....
LT: 3
LG: 1
C: 2
RG: 6
RT: 5
This is impressive, I’m gonna assume their OL is really good since all of the guys have so much versatility
Usually when you go down to your 5th or 6th option at a position that’s where you uncover the talent
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 08, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2023, 11:50:34 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 08, 2023, 11:51:41 AM
Laken Tomlinson is our rock.
And upon this rock we shall raise an abomination before gods and men.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 09, 2023, 08:05:40 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 09, 2023, 04:46:53 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 09, 2023, 04:52:40 PM
Well... ok, but last season was the same. What was our excuse then?
Does anyone know what John Benton or Mike LaFleur's practices wre like?
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 09, 2023, 06:58:59 PM
Does anyone know what John Benton or Mike LaFleur's practices wre like?
yeah
'zach, why did you throw that pass? did you not see i had berrios running 8 yards behind the LOS mindlessly for no reason?'
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 09, 2023, 07:12:45 PM
yeahI feel like that was more of his in-game notes.
'zach, why did you throw that pass? did you not see i had berrios running 8 yards behind the LOS mindlessly for no reason?'
Post by: Heismanberg on December 10, 2023, 10:58:37 AM
Another OL combination
Post by: MBGreen on December 10, 2023, 10:59:54 AM
Warren ruled outRIP Zach
Another OL combination
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 10, 2023, 12:09:33 PM
Warren ruled out
Another OL combination
Keith Carter is nothing short of a monster.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 10, 2023, 01:32:05 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 10, 2023, 03:05:32 PM
On a couple of pass plays we blocked well. Watch out now.
Seemed like they were mainly the play action plays
Post by: Johnny English on December 12, 2023, 09:15:14 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 12, 2023, 09:53:25 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 12, 2023, 10:04:46 PM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1734682025465147653
It can’t possibly be right that we are a fairly significantly better run blocking than pass blocking team.
Our pass blocking is not good, but our QBs at least have some plays a game with a pocket and more than a few instances to throw the ball. Our back seem to be hit in the backfield far more than 50% of the time (and it feels like closer to 75% most weeks).
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 12, 2023, 11:09:21 PM
It can’t possibly be right that we are a fairly significantly better run blocking than pass blocking team.
Our pass blocking is not good, but our QBs at least have some plays a game with a pocket and more than a few instances to throw the ball. Our back seem to be hit in the backfield far more than 50% of the time (and it feels like closer to 75% most weeks).
I'm about to become the same boomer that Heiss is
Post by: insanity on December 15, 2023, 02:35:15 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 15, 2023, 02:49:52 PM
What's going on with Duane brown. Is he just not willing to play rt?
After two consecutive shoulder injuries in his late 30s he might just not be that good anymore.
Post by: Johnny English on December 15, 2023, 02:55:17 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 15, 2023, 04:10:57 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 15, 2023, 04:48:56 PM
Brown will play when Becton goes down.
Given how we only have two "healthy" OT backups right now I'd say that's a safe bet.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 15, 2023, 04:58:59 PM
Brown will play when Becton goes down.
what the hell
Post by: Heismanberg on December 15, 2023, 04:59:25 PM
He reported eligible a few times against Houston, so they might just be handling him very carefully and trying not to give him a full workload until he's really ready.
He ran a route in the redzone too.
Post by: Johnny English on December 15, 2023, 05:03:48 PM
He ran a route in the redzone too.
Less likely to get his shoulder blown up again doing that than blocking Will Anderson.
Post by: insanity on December 16, 2023, 12:21:26 AM
After two consecutive shoulder injuries in his late 30s he might just not be that good anymore.He's worse than Billy turner?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 16, 2023, 01:03:22 AM
He's worse than Billy turner?Is he playing meaningful snaps?
Post by: MBGreen on December 17, 2023, 02:21:49 PM
Post by: Badger on December 17, 2023, 02:54:01 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 20, 2023, 08:50:13 AM
The QB doesn’t matter until you fix this
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2023, 09:00:26 AM
https://x.com/michael_nania/status/1737478257421758962?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
The QB doesn’t matter until you fix this
or find a coach who knows how to gameplan and make adjustments with a subpar oline.
Post by: reuben on December 20, 2023, 09:09:05 AM
https://x.com/michael_nania/status/1737478257421758962?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
The QB doesn’t matter until you fix this
And yet Nania advocates taking a QB in the draft. I like the guy more than most of you, but he can freak right off with that take.
I can't express this clearly enough: if we pick tenth, and nine offensive linemen go off the board before our pick, take the tenth best offensive lineman. We are so far away from any other strategy that the light from "BPA" won't reach us for a thousand years.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2023, 09:14:45 AM
Competent talent, good scheming and smart QB play makes for a good line. We have none of the three currently. We should have the QB issue resolved next year, but the scheme and talent are an issue.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 20, 2023, 10:00:07 AM
Tippmann is the only guarantee to return as starter.
Like it or not, the most prudent thing would be to keep Tomlinson at a renegotiated lower contract. We are paying him anyway, might as well keep him as a stopgap until 2025. There are worse guards out there. I think with better surrounding talent, anyone would improve. Replacing 3 starting OL is doable, 4 would be hard.
Regarding starters: draft a tackle, Tomlinson, Tippman, sign free agents at RG and other tackle. Let Brown retire, let Becton walk.
Regarding backups, I'd keep Mitchell for depth. He isn't good, but he's on a rookie deal and maybe has some room to improve still. Keep Carter Warren to develop also. Take back McGovern if he'd be willing to backup Tippman on the cheap. Everyone else can freak off.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2023, 10:02:52 AM
And yet Nania advocates taking a QB in the draft. I like the guy more than most of you, but he can freak right off with that take.
I can't express this clearly enough: if we pick tenth, and nine offensive linemen go off the board before our pick, take the tenth best offensive lineman. We are so far away from any other strategy that the light from "BPA" won't reach us for a thousand years.
If we take a QB in round 1 there better be a camera in Aaron Rodgers' living room/hotel/cave/Amazonian village to capture his reaction.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 20, 2023, 10:10:37 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2023, 10:48:46 AM
https://x.com/pff/status/1737490727704092912?s=42&t=oQHlTr9_OCVIYXOt5gHlYQ
Is there a particular reason they started with 2?
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2023, 10:51:37 AM
Is there a particular reason they started with 2?
Probably to make you click through to their article to find out who number 1 is.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2023, 11:17:38 AM
The draft is only part of the solution.
Tippmann is the only guarantee to return as starter.
Like it or not, the most prudent thing would be to keep Tomlinson at a renegotiated lower contract. We are paying him anyway, might as well keep him as a stopgap until 2025. There are worse guards out there. I think with better surrounding talent, anyone would improve. Replacing 3 starting OL is doable, 4 would be hard.
Regarding starters: draft a tackle, Tomlinson, Tippman, sign free agents at RG and other tackle. Let Brown retire, let Becton walk.
Regarding backups, I'd keep Mitchell for depth. He isn't good, but he's on a rookie deal and maybe has some room to improve still. Keep Carter Warren to develop also. Take back McGovern if he'd be willing to backup Tippman on the cheap. Everyone else can freak off.
Whether we like it or not, AVT will be counted on to start. So truly it’s only two spots you need to fill as starters and you need another OT who could be a fringe level starter as well. That guy can be signed, the high upside OT will either need to be drafted top ten or traded for. The tricky part is another starting OG/OT. Hopefully we get lucky and somebody cuts a vet as they enter a rebuild to free up some cash, because the market is pretty damn bare.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2023, 11:19:57 AM
Ideally we'd be targeting 3 OLine for this offseason: 2 tackles who can start and 1 above average interior player. Realistically we should be going hard after 2 OTs; 1 in FA and 1 in the draft.
We should also be doing the same with WR, and not giving up a premium pick for an aging veteran on the downside of his career, but JD sucks so there's that.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2023, 11:28:11 AM
Constantly going into the next season expecting the dudes on IR to stay off IR is exactly how Joe Douglas has failed to build this offensive line.
Ideally we'd be targeting 3 OLine for this offseason: 2 tackles who can start and 1 above average interior player. Realistically we should be going hard after 2 OTs; 1 in FA and 1 in the draft.
We should also be doing the same with WR, and not giving up a premium pick for an aging veteran on the downside of his career, but JD sucks so there's that.
I didn’t say it was the right idea to count on AVT, I just said I’d be shocked if we didn’t do exactly that.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 20, 2023, 11:29:20 AM
Whether we like it or not, AVT will be counted on to start. So truly it’s only two spots you need to fill as starters and you need another OT who could be a fringe level starter as well. That guy can be signed, the high upside OT will either need to be drafted top ten or traded for. The tricky part is another starting OG/OT. Hopefully we get lucky and somebody cuts a vet as they enter a rebuild to free up some cash, because the market is pretty damn bare.
Good Lord I'm an idiot. Yes, AVT will be RG or RT.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 20, 2023, 11:34:56 AM
Constantly going into the next season expecting the dudes on IR to stay off IR is exactly how Joe Douglas has failed to build this offensive line.
Ideally we'd be targeting 3 OLine for this offseason: 2 tackles who can start and 1 above average interior player. Realistically we should be going hard after 2 OTs; 1 in FA and 1 in the draft.
We should also be doing the same with WR, and not giving up a premium pick for an aging veteran on the downside of his career, but JD sucks so there's that.
Yep. Barring some weird winning streak, I can't imagine we aren't in line to take a good tackle in the first round. To me that's almost a lock. We've seen that we need to have better depth, not just bodies that have played before.
I don't blame Douglas for the injuries to starters, but the depth was surprisingly terrible. No one's backups are great, but damn, these backups proved to all be horrible. I can't attest how much of it was coaching/scheming. The bar was low, but damn, even I didn't expect all of them to play so badly.
It's funny that the one guy we expected to get hurt didn't. Almost everyone else did.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2023, 11:38:56 AM
I didn’t say it was the right idea to count on AVT, I just said I’d be shocked if we didn’t do exactly that.
Wasn't trying to argue, and I agree it's what will probably happen.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 20, 2023, 12:51:31 PM
I'd bring back Becton on a team-friendly one-year as the RT. His play has fallen off a cliff, but he was playing better earlier in the year so maybe something else has been at fault lately. If he comes back cheap, I think it's worth the one year. We've got to draft at least one tackle, preferably two.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2023, 01:04:48 PM
I'd bring back Becton on a team-friendly one-year as the RT. His play has fallen off a cliff, but he was playing better earlier in the year so maybe something else has been at fault lately. If he comes back cheap, I think it's worth the one year. We've got to draft at least one tackle, preferably two.
I don't think you're getting him on a team friendly one year deal, because he's a talented 24 year old left tackle who's starting quality if he's healthy and they don't become available in FA too much - someone will pay him properly, and between the turf, the excrement coaching and the continued losing, I doubt he's super desperate to stay. I think we have to make him a market offer or tag him if we want him to stay.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2023, 01:11:45 PM
I don't think you're getting him on a team friendly one year deal, because he's a talented 24 year old left tackle who's starting quality if he's healthy and they don't become available in FA too much - someone will pay him properly, and between the turf, the excrement coaching and the continued losing, I doubt he's super desperate to stay. I think we have to make him a market offer or tag him if we want him to stay.
Except he's been healthy and he's been putting bad tape out there. Someone could reach but it's just as likely he'll have to settle for a prove-it deal with someone.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2023, 01:15:20 PM
Except he's been healthy and he's been putting bad tape out there. Someone could reach but it's just as likely he'll have to settle for a prove-it deal with someone.
Maybe, but the position is just too premium for someone not to take a swing, I think. His performances this year have been hit and miss but his ceiling is high, his physical attributes are off the scale, it's easy to explain away his intermittent form, and he's young enough to improve hugely. As a free agent I think he's going to get a ton of suitors.
Post by: reuben on December 20, 2023, 01:49:38 PM
Maybe, but the position is just too premium for someone not to take a swing, I think. His performances this year have been hit and miss but his ceiling is high, his physical attributes are off the scale, it's easy to explain away his intermittent form, and he's young enough to improve hugely. As a free agent I think he's going to get a ton of suitors.
Has it been hit or miss or has it been a steady decline? I don't think he was in good enough shape to make it through a full 17 and his recent performances are showing that. He's gassed. He's basically hitting his rookie wall.
Might he come back next season in better shape to last for an entire season? He might. He also might snag one more payday, come into training camp near 400, and be out of the NFL by 2025. I'm not sure which is more likely.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2023, 01:51:23 PM
Has it been hit or miss or has it been a steady decline? I don't think he was in good enough shape to make it through a full 17 and his recent performances are showing that. He's gassed. He's basically hitting his rookie wall.
Might he come back next season in better shape to last for an entire season? He might. He also might snag one more payday, come into training camp near 400, and be out of the NFL by 2025. I'm not sure which is more likely.
I don’t see him putting in the work to get his weight down only to go right back to being out of playing shape the next season.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 20, 2023, 01:59:42 PM
If he's got to take a one-year, it's in his best interest to do it in a scheme he knows with a future HOF QB who he has a rapport with.
If he gets a multiyear offer he likes somewhere, godspeed big fella.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2023, 02:14:29 PM
If he's got to take a one-year, it's in his best interest to do it in a scheme he knows with a future HOF QB who he has a rapport with.
Absolutely no part of this is correct.
This scheme is terrible and leaves him alone to get destroyed.
He’s practiced on the same unit with Rodgers for a week tops.
If I’m Becton I’m getting the hell away from the team that just declined my 5th year option and is showing every sign that they are committing to a completely dysfunctional offense.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 20, 2023, 02:49:09 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 20, 2023, 03:05:33 PM
Absolutely no part of this is correct.
This scheme is terrible and leaves him alone to get destroyed.
He’s practiced on the same unit with Rodgers for a week tops.
If I’m Becton I’m getting the hell away from the team that just declined my 5th year option and is showing every sign that they are committing to a completely dysfunctional offense.
I'm sorry, but you may recall that one of things Aaron Rodgers does every single day is hug Becton. Becton gives him credit for helping save his career. But okay, absolutely nothing I wrote is correct.
This offense will be quite different when there's a guy calling plays under center and ignoring the guy in the booth. If I'm Becton, I'm betting on my friend if I have to do a one-year prove-it.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 20, 2023, 03:07:57 PM
Becton is terrible. We shouldn't resign him by any means. Get his huge derriere out of NY.
He has had a bad stretch. The question is chicken or egg. Is he bad and making the line worse, or is the line bad and making him worse?
I'm not advocating a multiyear deal. One year and a prove-it salary. At worst, he's depth.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2023, 03:12:55 PM
I'm sorry, but you may recall that one of things Aaron Rodgers does every single day is hug Becton. Becton gives him credit for helping save his career. But okay, absolutely nothing I wrote is correct.
This offense will be quite different when there's a guy calling plays under center and ignoring the guy in the booth. If I'm Becton, I'm betting on my friend if I have to do a one-year prove-it.
I’m sure Aaron Rodgers explaining the dangers of MMR causing ED is really going to help him.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 20, 2023, 03:21:05 PM
Then again, Becton seems to love Rodgers. And Becton was a Douglas pick and he seems to be reluctant to give up on them. We still have a few more games too, let's see if Becton can finish the year healthy.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2023, 03:28:53 PM
He has had a bad stretch. The question is chicken or egg. Is he bad and making the line worse, or is the line bad and making him worse?
I'm not advocating a multiyear deal. One year and a prove-it salary. At worst, he's depth.
If we want to pay Mekhi Becton what we paid Morgan Moses to be our swing tackle next year who can “compete” for a starting job, then I’m all for that. He’s a big step up from the Max Mitchell’s of the world who would likely otherwise be our swing tackle next year. It also means we only need to acquire two starting caliber OTs and one more depth guy to be with Schweitzer as our interior depth next year.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2023, 03:48:16 PM
If we want to pay Mekhi Becton what we paid Morgan Moses to be our swing tackle next year who can “compete” for a starting job, then I’m all for that. He’s a big step up from the Max Mitchell’s of the world who would likely otherwise be our swing tackle next year. It also means we only need to acquire two starting caliber OTs and one more depth guy to be with Schweitzer as our interior depth next year.
I can not see any way at all that Mekhi Becton signs a 1 year $4.3M deal with us, or anyone else, next season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 20, 2023, 03:48:55 PM
I can not see any way at all that Mekhi Becton signs a 1 year $4.3M deal with us, or anyone else, next season.
Are you sure you know who Mekhi Becton is?
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2023, 03:50:42 PM
Are you sure you know who Mekhi Becton is?
Yes. We clearly have differing views of his stock in the context of an absolute dearth of starting caliber left tackles available in free agency.
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2023, 06:13:09 PM
Both of AVT's season-enders came playing tackle, didn't they? We need to assume he's a guard going forward.
The torn biceps in 2022 I could see the argument for, but I don't know if you can really attribute this year's torn Achilles to playing out of position.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2023, 06:54:23 PM
Yes. We clearly have differing views of his stock in the context of an absolute dearth of starting caliber left tackles available in free agency.
There in lies the reason for differing views. I believe Becton is not a quality starting LT, based on his overall play this year. He is a starter by default, not because he’s shown the capability for quality play. Whatever his first half was last week is so unfathomably atrocious that he (IMO) shouldn’t be counted on as a starter next year by any NFL team.
I don’t know where he would rank in terms of graded out tackles, but I bet he’s a hell of a lot closer to 64th than he would 32nd.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 20, 2023, 07:05:43 PM
So give me a RT in FA and a LT with our firs rounder.
Bare minimum that has to happen with the OL this offseason.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2023, 07:10:26 PM
There in lies the reason for differing views. I believe Becton is not a quality starting LT, based on his overall play this year. He is a starter by default, not because he’s shown the capability for quality play. Whatever his first half was last week is so unfathomably atrocious that he (IMO) shouldn’t be counted on as a starter next year by any NFL team.
I don’t know where he would rank in terms of graded out tackles, but I bet he’s a hell of a lot closer to 64th than he would 32nd.
I think he has the talent to be a starter, because we've seen him be a good one.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2023, 07:31:48 PM
I think he has the talent to be a starter, because we've seen him be a good one.
Talent/potential do not necessarily equate to actual ability/play.
We’ve seen Allan Lazard be a capable starter at WR in the past as well. But things change as time goes on. The world is all about “what have you done for me lately” and Lazard hasn’t done excrement since being paid. Becton has been meh to start the year, solid to good the first few weeks after Brown went down, and mediocre to absolutely dreadful since about week 8.
We see it differently. It will be interesting to see what the 32 GMs think this off-season (assuming his level of play remains as is for the final few weeks, and doesn’t swing wildly one way or the other.)
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2023, 08:08:20 PM
Talent/potential do not necessarily equate to actual ability/play.
We’ve seen Allan Lazard be a capable starter at WR in the past as well. But things change as time goes on. The world is all about “what have you done for me lately” and Lazard hasn’t done excrement since being paid. Becton has been meh to start the year, solid to good the first few weeks after Brown went down, and mediocre to absolutely dreadful since about week 8.
We see it differently. It will be interesting to see what the 32 GMs think this off-season (assuming his level of play remains as is for the final few weeks, and doesn’t swing wildly one way or the other.)
Allen Lazard is a UDFA who has only produced anything with a first ballot HOF QB throwing to him. Mekhi Becton is a 24 year old first round pick who has shown talent at times on a horrifically poor team. The two are not comparable.
I'm not even particularly defending Mekhi, I have my doubts about whether he'll ever be a player we could rely on. But his agent will be talking to GMs about the undoubted ability he has, the fact that he's dealt with a revolving door of abysmal coaches, injuries caused by the most hated stadium in the country, and the worst quarterbacking in the league. They're going to take all that into account, consider that he's a 24 year old playing about the most prized and most scarcely resourced position in the game, and that they don't have to give up any draft capital to get him, and then they're going to reach for their checkbooks.
I will be astonished if the best offer he gets is a one year deal for a few million dollars.
Post by: Jumbo on December 20, 2023, 09:07:29 PM
It's at a premium. Becton is probably going to make $10M AAV on potential alone. And honestly even with how excrement he's been I'm not even opposed to giving him that because the FA OL market is likely to be so bare.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 20, 2023, 09:21:11 PM
Becton is probably going to make $10M AAV on potential alone. And honestly even with how excrement he's been I'm not even opposed to giving him that because the FA OL market is likely to be so bare.
He's become the worst pass protecting OT in the NFL down the stretch. We should let him walk.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 20, 2023, 09:31:12 PM
I also would not sign him to play LT.
Post by: Jumbo on December 20, 2023, 09:52:02 PM
He's become the worst pass protecting OT in the NFL down the stretch. We should let him walk.
I won't be overly upset if we let him walk but he's going to command money on the open market either way. And I'm not sure we have a good backup plan. If we do, I don't care if he leaves either way, but if you trust JD to have a good backup plan at OT then I don't know what to tell you at this point.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2023, 09:57:26 PM
I won't be overly upset if we let him walk but he's going to command money on the open market either way. And I'm not sure we have a good backup plan. If we do, I don't care if he leaves either way, but if you trust JD to have a good backup plan at OT then I don't know what to tell you at this point.
If he does, then he gives us a chance at a comp pick depending on who we sign as his replacement.
I also think Becton walking, and Duane Brown retiring might well be the only way JD develops a plan at OT for next season.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 21, 2023, 02:41:27 PM
Remember, sacks are a QB stat, so the fact that these guys are behind the 31st and 32nd ranked OL is not correlated
Post by: Badger on December 24, 2023, 04:37:24 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 26, 2023, 11:14:47 AM
Chuma Edoga is starting his sixth game for one of the best offenses in the NFL. Cool.
Cool cool cool
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 26, 2023, 11:14:52 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 26, 2023, 11:20:10 AM
https://x.com/thejetpress/status/1739674733270978871?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I really struggle with individual stats for OL. He's the only lineman to play every snap this season, and he has probably played with more center/tackle combinations this season than any other lineman in the league. It seems wildly disingenuous to point at him and say he's individually terrible without paying any regard to the context of the situation in which he has played.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2023, 11:39:17 AM
I really struggle with individual stats for OL. He's the only lineman to play every snap this season, and he has probably played with more center/tackle combinations this season than any other lineman in the league. It seems wildly disingenuous to point at him and say he's individually terrible without paying any regard to the context of the situation in which he has played.
He is really bad and has been since he’s been here.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 26, 2023, 11:40:32 AM
I really struggle with individual stats for OL. He's the only lineman to play every snap this season, and he has probably played with more center/tackle combinations this season than any other lineman in the league. It seems wildly disingenuous to point at him and say he's individually terrible without paying any regard to the context of the situation in which he has played.
Fair point
Counterpoint: he kinda stinks.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 26, 2023, 12:10:50 PM
Post by: Johnny English on December 26, 2023, 12:56:28 PM
He is really bad and has been since he’s been here.That may be true but it doesn't contradict what I said.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 27, 2023, 07:55:43 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 27, 2023, 07:58:37 PM
I really struggle with individual stats for OL. He's the only lineman to play every snap this season, and he has probably played with more center/tackle combinations this season than any other lineman in the league. It seems wildly disingenuous to point at him and say he's individually terrible without paying any regard to the context of the situation in which he has played.
He’s probably the lineman out of everyone that’s had the most consistency with his LT/C partners. The right side has been a mess
The whole line is bad and he’s one of the reasons why. He’s out there every week! Yeah, Stinking it up on a big contract
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 27, 2023, 08:03:45 PM
https://x.com/nfldraftbites/status/1740125345909715408?s=46&t=e6vm1ybQ4I7pEpNpNEkBkg
I'm nauseous.
Post by: insanity on December 27, 2023, 09:15:10 PM
I'm nauseous.This doesn't hold any water.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 27, 2023, 09:32:25 PM
This doesn't hold any water.Because I'm throwing it up.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 28, 2023, 07:50:55 AM
This doesn't hold any water.
Maybe not, but there’s an absurd amount of scenarios we can come up with over JD’s tenure where he made the wrong decision with the OL. This is just another on the pile
Post by: Johnny English on December 28, 2023, 09:19:22 AM
Maybe not, but there’s an absurd amount of scenarios we can come up with over JD’s tenure where he made the wrong decision with the OL. This is just another on the pile
Every GM makes wrong decisions that look stupid in hindsight. The bigger issue is the amount of deals that look good viewed through the same lens.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 28, 2023, 09:39:27 AM
Every GM makes wrong decisions that look stupid in hindsight. The bigger issue is the amount of deals that look good viewed through the same lens.
We have the worst OL. We’ve had a bottom tier OL consistently throughout Joe Douglas’s tenure here. We don’t have to keep making excuses for him. Every other team has been able to figure it out somehow.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2023, 09:40:35 AM
Every GM makes wrong decisions that look stupid in hindsight.
Our GM has made the same mistakes for several seasons in a row.
You can't come in as an "OL guru" and consistently fail when it comes to building that unit.
Post by: Johnny English on December 28, 2023, 09:59:02 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 28, 2023, 11:54:17 AM
I'm not saying he should get a contract extension because we liked what he did at the time. None of us are GMs, he is. I just don't want us to have a bunch of revisionist history here. None of us get to say he made poor choices without admitting that we thought they were good too. Sometimes shitty luck has as much to do with someone getting fired as being bad at their job.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 28, 2023, 12:27:12 PM
That said, Douglas' track record isn't great and he certainly deserves blame for a lot of roster mismanagement, even beyond offensive line.
Who knows, maybe Rodgers walks into Woody's office on Jan. 8 and says "You know, changed my mind, these guys suck, let's start interviewing."
Post by: bojanglesman on December 28, 2023, 12:35:33 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 29, 2023, 08:16:09 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 29, 2023, 08:16:37 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 29, 2023, 08:34:22 AM
Need 2 new OTs and a new OG at minimum
tough to do in a single offseason. Usually there's nothing available in FA because teams hang on to their top tier olineman. Not having a 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft complicates it even more.
Becton turning out to be a turnip and Duane Brown being old/broken really fucked us.
Post by: Coach K on December 29, 2023, 08:36:39 AM
Need 2 new OTs and a new OG at minimumOh yeah thats a given hopefullynwe can get 2 of the 3 via FA
But this upcoming list of FA is ummmm yeah . No Bueno
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 29, 2023, 08:49:23 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 29, 2023, 08:50:08 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 29, 2023, 09:56:26 AM
Callahan out there showing what a good OL coach can do.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 29, 2023, 04:22:01 PM
Alright new plan: Alt/Olu with our 1RP, Carter Warren at RT, FA OG who sucks less than Laken
This is probably our best case scenario. Maybe change the FA OG to ‘an available FA OG/C that sucks less than Laken’, giving us flexibility to move tippmann as needed. I don’t know the list but it’s probably easier to get a C than it is an OG
Post by: Badger on December 29, 2023, 04:39:48 PM
I don’t know the list but it’s probably easier to get a C than it is an OG
Not sure why I've seen multiple people make this assumption.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 29, 2023, 05:20:52 PM
Ideally, you want 3 new starters. But in reality, we need 2 significant additions, and then we need to find a way to get a little "lucky" with the other spot, whether that's through a FA competition with the best man winning, or that's through a 4th-round pick actually turning into someone viable.
JD has failed almost across the board at offensive line, but if he wants to keep his job in 2025, he needs to find a way to get it fixed. Morgan Moses is an example of a cheaper FA who turned into something. We need more of that. Or we need our Carter Warrens/Cameron Clarks/Max Mitchells to turn into viable players.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2023, 05:21:36 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 29, 2023, 05:42:15 PM
Carter Warren seems decent.We said that about Max Mitchell last season.
Maybe Warren can be something. The best case scenario is that Warren competes with 1-2 vets and earns the job and gives us a cost-controlled OL who doesn't suck. Early sample size on Warren has been relatively average, but he's a rookie coming off a major injury so hopefully he develops.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 29, 2023, 05:54:30 PM
He's a decent depth player who has looked good so far.
Also: #H2P
Post by: MBGreen on December 29, 2023, 05:55:05 PM
If we go into next season with Warren and a veteran or two to compete for one spot I would be happy. If we handed him the starting job I would not.
He's a decent depth player who has looked good so far.
Also: #H2P
There's a good chance Izzy stinks. #H2P
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 29, 2023, 05:59:12 PM
There's a good chance Izzy stinks. #H2P
I'm not going to be shaken up over a 5th round RB not working out, regardless of whether he went to the same college as me or not.
Post by: MBGreen on December 29, 2023, 06:21:10 PM
I'm not going to be shaken up over a 5th round RB not working out, regardless of whether he went to the same college as me or not.You might be
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 29, 2023, 08:20:52 PM
Quote
League sources believe there will be changes to the Jets coaching staff once the season ends, and the consensus is that offensive line coach Keith Carter will be shown the door.
As I reported last year from Shrine Bowl practices, a lot of eyebrows were raised when the Jets hired Carter in January. One league source told me at the time that Saleh and Douglas had a “death wish” hiring Carter, who does not have the greatest of reputations amongst players. And while the Jets’ offensive line has been beset with injuries this season, the poor play and limited development is the fault of Carter’s, according to those I’ve spoken with.
Post by: Badger on December 29, 2023, 08:48:16 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231230/45a94f3c2053fb8d27fde8cbad56e566.jpg)
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2024, 04:43:24 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 02, 2024, 05:07:02 PM
Roger Saffold is also free to compete for a title now.The tank is definitely ON now
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2024, 10:49:34 AM
We did it
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2024, 10:54:28 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 10:56:40 AM
LOLffensive Line*Never should have changed the thread title.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 09, 2024, 11:31:28 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 11:32:15 AM
Trading for Bakhtiari feels inevitable.We don't have enough to trade for him AND Adams.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 09, 2024, 11:33:38 AM
We don't have enough to trade for him AND Adams.
I'm assuming this is sarcastic but Bakhtiari really shouldn't cost that much given his age/recent health issues. I don't think Adams is realistic.
Post by: MBGreen on January 09, 2024, 11:34:51 AM
I'm assuming this is sarcastic but Bakhtiari really shouldn't cost that much given his age/recent health issues. I don't think Adams is realistic.
Bakhtiari can fill that Duane Brown role of an old head getting paid to sit on IR.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 09, 2024, 11:38:00 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 11:38:01 AM
Bakhtiari can fill that Duane Brown role of an old head getting paid to sit on IR.
We need one of those for the locker room.
Post by: reuben on January 09, 2024, 05:38:02 PM
This quote still hurts. Dude thinks the problem with a room full of Wayne Hunters is they just don't want it enough. I think the problem comes from the DC mindset, same problem Rex had: they've spent their career looking at offensive linemen as fat, dumb, talentless obstacles to be outwitted and outmaneuvered. Coples is a unicorn while DeCastro is a dime-a-dozen.
None of it freaking matters until you change the big boys up front.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2024, 05:56:45 PM
“You can have a Hall of Fame quarterback, you can have two $10 million-plus receivers, you can have the reigning Offensive Rookie of the Year, you can have all kinds of skill in the running back room, but none of it freaking matters until the big boys up front change who the freak we are.”The statement turned out to be prescient. I think you're reading too much into that. What is he supposed to say in a team-wide meeting like that?
This quote still hurts. Dude thinks the problem with a room full of Wayne Hunters is they just don't want it enough. I think the problem comes from the DC mindset, same problem Rex had: they've spent their career looking at offensive linemen as fat, dumb, talentless obstacles to be outwitted and outmaneuvered. Coples is a unicorn while DeCastro is a dime-a-dozen.
None of it freaking matters until you change the big boys up front.
Post by: reuben on January 09, 2024, 06:08:50 PM
The statement turned out to be prescient. I think you're reading too much into that. What is he supposed to say in a team-wide meeting like that?
I don't know. I'm trying to get in the head of a man who fielded the worst offensive line I've ever seen and then applauded his line coach.
I get it: words don't matter, pressers don't matter. Actions matter, but Saleh took no action.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 09, 2024, 07:22:36 PM
I'm assuming this is sarcastic but Bakhtiari really shouldn't cost that much given his age/recent health issues. I don't think Adams is realistic.
he's old and hasn't played in like 3 years, and his cap hit next season is over $40 million. if douglas actually moves for him this offseason, we should freaking riot
Post by: Badger on January 09, 2024, 07:29:19 PM
he's old and hasn't played in like 3 years, and his cap hit next season is over $40 million. if douglas actually moves for him this offseason, we should freaking riotJan 6 2025 we storm 1 Jets Drive
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2024, 07:43:55 PM
I don't know. I'm trying to get in the head of a man who fielded the worst offensive line I've ever seen and then applauded his line coach.
I get it: words don't matter, pressers don't matter. Actions matter, but Saleh took no action.
Ok. What did you want Saleh to do?
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 07:56:00 PM
“You can have a Hall of Fame quarterback, you can have two $10 million-plus receivers, you can have the reigning Offensive Rookie of the Year, you can have all kinds of skill in the running back room, but none of it freaking matters until the big boys up front change who the freak we are.”
This quote still hurts. Dude thinks the problem with a room full of Wayne Hunters is they just don't want it enough. I think the problem comes from the DC mindset, same problem Rex had: they've spent their career looking at offensive linemen as fat, dumb, talentless obstacles to be outwitted and outmaneuvered. Coples is a unicorn while DeCastro is a dime-a-dozen.
None of it freaking matters until you change the big boys up front.
That could be the case but I'm not entirely convinced.
He has the players he has, there is only so much you can do with them unless Douglas finds a way to bring in other talent, which he didn't. The biggest problems that I can ascribe to him was that he thought Keith Carter could be the one to get them to the level that they needed to be.
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2024, 08:34:34 PM
Post by: reuben on January 09, 2024, 08:37:15 PM
Ok. What did you want Saleh to do?
Fire his terrible line coach?
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 09, 2024, 08:54:35 PM
Chuma Edoga, George Fant, Greg Van Roten and Morgan Moses all made multiple starts on playoff teams this season. Douglas has done a bad job but our coaching staff has continually failed to get the best out of the players we have.
One more time a little louder for the folks in the back.
Douglas gets no excuses, but this staff is awful. To paraphrase the best second-year WR we've ever had "It shouldn't be this hard."
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 09, 2024, 10:37:05 PM
Looks like Becton isn't a fan of Carter.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2024, 11:27:24 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/s/CN5tKXc97f
Looks like Becton isn't a fan of Carter.
Carter probably isn’t a fan of Becton either
Post by: Jumbo on January 10, 2024, 01:34:21 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/s/CN5tKXc97f
Looks like Becton isn't a fan of Carter.
Breece did the same. If multiple players are doing this publicly and he's absolute excrement, players around the league hate him, what the freak are we doing keeping him? Literally hire me instead and it would be an improvement and I know nothing about coaching OL.
(https://preview.redd.it/4rmokk18rjbc1.png?width=663&auto=webp&s=c7c5e6891f550046d41072c8730e3d51c75d238e)
Post by: Jumbo on January 10, 2024, 01:36:57 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 10, 2024, 02:00:06 AM
It makes no sense, he's not a Rodgers buddy and he's not a JD or Saleh buddy, why the hell would you keep him?It makes no sense. He is the most obvious fall guy in the history of fall guys. He did a terrible job. The players seem to not like him. Why would you ever bring him back? It's one thing if Becton is the only guy, or if he were getting results. But it makes no sense to keep him.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2024, 08:56:41 AM
Fire his terrible line coach?
At the time of this quote? He had just been hired
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 10, 2024, 09:06:47 AM
Not likely but it's possible.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 10, 2024, 09:29:49 AM
You might convince an up-and-coming position coach to take Hackett's coordinator position, but who are you going to convince to take a position job for a staff that was on next season's hot seat by Thanksgiving of the previous season?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2024, 09:34:39 AM
I said this previously, but who will want the job?
There are several up and comers that might want a shot. Also, at least five coaching staffs have been fired so far. There's likely a couple of upgrades out there looking for a new job.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 10, 2024, 11:36:10 AM
There are several up and comers that might want a shot. Also, at least five coaching staffs have been fired so far. There's likely a couple of upgrades out there looking for a new job.
Look, if they can get someone, I'd love it because I want Carter gone. I just don't know why anyone would want to take a job they have a reasonable shot of losing in less than 12 months. For an OC job, sure, but for low-level staff it's a pretty risky move.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2024, 11:39:27 AM
For an OC job, sure, but for low-level staff it's a pretty risky move.
I see it as the opposite. It's much riskier for the OC because it could be your last shot.
For position coaches in the NFL, you're still getting a NFL coach's salary for another season instead of taking time off or moving down to the college level.
Azzanani made $300K per season at Tennessee. He probably makes double that or more with the Jets.
Post by: Johnny English on January 10, 2024, 11:43:35 AM
I see it as the opposite. It's much riskier for the OC because it could be your last shot.
For position coaches in the NFL, you're still getting a NFL coach's salary for another season instead of taking time off or moving down to the college level.
Azzanani made $300K per season at Tennessee. He probably makes double that or more with the Jets.
Not to mention, there's an element of no lose here. If you take this job and do well you're the guy who fixed the problem no one else could, if the line sucks, everyone had already agreed that the talent level was miserable so there wasn't much you could do about it.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2024, 11:50:12 AM
See: last year. And 2 years before that.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 10, 2024, 11:52:11 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2024, 11:55:44 AM
Seems to me like JD/Saleh are gonna blame that on the injures and player performance, which is a somewhat reasonable excuse.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 10, 2024, 11:58:21 AM
Not to mention, there's an element of no lose here. If you take this job and do well you're the guy who fixed the problem no one else could, if the line sucks, everyone had already agreed that the talent level was miserable so there wasn't much you could do about it.
All they have to do here is not get the players to hate them and they’ll be considered an upgrade.
Post by: Johnny English on January 10, 2024, 12:28:32 PM
Those are both fair posts. I'll admit, I'm very risk-averse when it comes to employment, so maybe I'm viewing it through those glasses. I just think it's rough to take a job you have a reasonably significant chance to lose in less than a year.
Like Bum Philips said, there are two kinds of coaches in football: those who have been fired, and those who are going to be fired.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 10, 2024, 02:57:55 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 10, 2024, 03:11:27 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 10, 2024, 03:11:54 PM
Does anyone like Keith Carter?
Every time I see his name it makes me think of the song Kevin Carter by Manic Street Preachers, who are great. So that's at least slightly positive.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2024, 03:13:09 PM
Formal request to change this thread title to Lolffensive Line
Enjoy your Tostitos
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 10, 2024, 05:09:43 PM
i don't want anything to do with becton anymore, so his excrement season is whatever to me. a guy like mitchell, who showed flashes and some decent play his rookie year, definitely regressed. i don't know how much of that is just him, his medical history, or freaking keith carter. but he is somebody i'd like to give another shot as depth/backup with better coaching infrastructure
get better players. hire a better staff. i don't want us to sign/draft 'better' players and then still be talking about how our OL staff sucks and how everybody hates their OL coach.
it's not like this was a surprise either. carter's players as well as tennessee reports/fans said as much about him directly after he was fired. why in the blue freak did we hire him?
Post by: mj2sexay on January 10, 2024, 06:20:29 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 10, 2024, 06:45:08 PM
players need upgrading and players need to stay healthy. But those that did stay healthy, who had prior tape for us for direct comparison, seemingly took steps back.All crash no brakes
i don't want anything to do with becton anymore, so his excrement season is whatever to me. a guy like mitchell, who showed flashes and some decent play his rookie year, definitely regressed. i don't know how much of that is just him, his medical history, or freaking keith carter. but he is somebody i'd like to give another shot as depth/backup with better coaching infrastructure
get better players. hire a better staff. i don't want us to sign/draft 'better' players and then still be talking about how our OL staff sucks and how everybody hates their OL coach.
it's not like this was a surprise either. carter's players as well as tennessee reports/fans said as much about him directly after he was fired. why in the blue freak did we hire him?
"Itz a dizastuh" -Mike F
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 10, 2024, 06:56:01 PM
All crash no brakes
"Itz a dizastuh" -Mike F
This is now my favorite variation
Post by: ons on January 10, 2024, 07:50:27 PM
I simply can't believe that the decision makers are so incompetent to run back this offensive coaching staff with no changes, and he's clearly been despised by many players for the better part of the past five years and had absolutely no on-field success for us, and has a history of getting players injured (or players believing he got them injured). It's organizational malpractice if he is coaching for the team next year. It seems like Saleh(or Douglas) doesn't like the black Monday firing timing, but he must be getting canned within the next week or two.
Post by: Coach K on January 10, 2024, 11:32:49 PM
I still feel like they're going to fire Carter.Let's hope so
I simply can't believe that the decision makers are so incompetent to run back this offensive coaching staff with no changes, and he's clearly been despised by many players for the better part of the past five years and had absolutely no on-field success for us, and has a history of getting players injured (or players believing he got them injured). It's organizational malpractice if he is coaching for the team next year. It seems like Saleh(or Douglas) doesn't like the black Monday firing timing, but he must be getting canned within the next week or two.
Post by: Miamipuck on January 11, 2024, 02:38:52 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 11, 2024, 04:56:21 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 11, 2024, 05:30:29 PM
Becton's gonna go be a star somewhere else, and Carter's gonna be here wrecking Breece's career.
In all likelihood neither of those things are going to happen.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 12, 2024, 04:20:35 AM
Becton's gonna go be a star somewhere else, and Carter's gonna be here wrecking Breece's career.
Becton won’t be a star anywhere. He sucks technically. If you haven’t learnt this at 25 you won’t ever learn it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 13, 2024, 05:41:07 PM
Becton won’t be a star anywhere. He sucks technically. If you haven’t learnt this at 25 you won’t ever learn it.He overcame it as a rookie by being a physical beast, but whether it is injuries or something else, he wasn't that guy down the stretch
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 19, 2024, 09:47:44 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 19, 2024, 09:51:41 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2024, 09:53:17 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/KjzVT8p/IMG-2782.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hR123TJ)
LOL
Post by: reuben on January 22, 2024, 06:54:57 PM
Can't wait to start x-ing people out of this photo like the guys in the new uniform pics.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 22, 2024, 07:49:25 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEfEAnmXkAAicC7?format=jpg&name=large)
Can't wait to start x-ing people out of this photo like the guys in the new uniform pics.
Hopefully all of them except for AVT, Tipp, and Warren
Post by: Heismanberg on January 22, 2024, 07:52:22 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 22, 2024, 08:11:44 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 22, 2024, 08:12:42 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 22, 2024, 08:14:41 PM
also, zach got killed because of the shitty blocking from those guys. he ain't good enough to make the vegas cut? there are loads of milfs he could possibly smash there
He won’t be a Jet much longer
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 22, 2024, 08:21:51 PM
He won’t be a Jet much longer
good. i hope most of those guys aren't jets much longer
to add to your list, mitchell was bad this year but i'd like to see how he does with a new OL coach. i would not keep laken but i have a feeling he will survive past the (hopeful) attrition we see with our OL this offseason.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 22, 2024, 09:04:02 PM
good. i hope most of those guys aren't jets much longer
to add to your list, mitchell was bad this year but i'd like to see how he does with a new OL coach. i would not keep laken but i have a feeling he will survive past the (hopeful) attrition we see with our OL this offseason.
Unfortunately we wont have a new OL coach this season
Post by: Badger on January 23, 2024, 05:56:13 AM
Unfortunately we wont have a new OL coach this seasonWhat if it's Keith Carter with a fake mustache?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 30, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 30, 2024, 02:26:04 PM
"The prevailing sentiment around the league is that the #Jets will add two tackles, via free agency and the draft," per Rich Cimini of ESPN
No excrement
Post by: mj2sexay on January 30, 2024, 03:16:40 PM
What if it's Keith Carter with a fake mustache?
Say hello to our new offensive line coach, Ceith Karter!
Or we could just call him Mr. Retrac, complete with Ben Wilkerson saying, "I like the way Retrac thinks!" and say he comes from....far away. Yes that'll do.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 01, 2024, 02:05:50 PM
No excrement
Filed under “no excrement” adjacent opinions,
Best case scenario for me is an absolute dude at 10 and the best FA tackle our tainted dollars can buy
Who are the best FA tackles again?
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2024, 02:06:41 PM
Best case scenario for me is an absolute dude at 10 and then the best FA tackle our tainted dollars can buy
Who are the best FA tackles again?
Trent Brown should be our top target
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2024, 04:41:16 PM
Trent Brown should be our top targetTrunt Brown
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2024, 06:04:25 PM
Joe Tippmann
AVT
Taliese Fuaga
Cut Laken Tomlinson and find a new left guard. Let's roll.
Post by: Badger on February 01, 2024, 06:58:05 PM
Trent BrownI call this OL arrangement The Shocker
Joe Tippmann
AVT
Taliese Fuaga
Cut Laken Tomlinson and find a new left guard. Let's roll.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2024, 08:14:37 PM
I call this OL arrangement The Shocker
Only four offensive linemen with Xavier Gipson and Ashtyn Davis at tight end
Post by: Miamipuck on February 01, 2024, 10:15:31 PM
Post by: Badger on February 02, 2024, 07:12:05 PM
If we go into the season without an acceptable backup for AVT JD requires a one way rocket to the sun.Dan Feeney is available.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 03, 2024, 12:18:37 AM
Dan Feeney is available.I'd be done with this team.
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2024, 07:03:19 AM
I'd be done with this team.No
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 07, 2024, 09:11:51 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 07, 2024, 09:12:48 AM
I'd be done with this team.
WORLD NEEDS PLENTY AH BAHTENDAS
Post by: Heismanberg on February 07, 2024, 09:30:05 AM
https://x.com/jordan_reid/status/1755231633043566652?s=42&t=oQHlTr9_OCVIYXOt5gHlYQ
we aren't getting either of them at 10
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 07, 2024, 10:08:28 AM
WORLD NEEDS PLENTY AH BAHTENDASHe should be one of them.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 07, 2024, 10:09:28 AM
we aren't getting either of them at 10
I wouldn't bet on it either, but I wouldn't rule it out. 3 QBs, Odunze, Nabers, Harrison will likely go before us. That's 6 players. All it takes is for 3 other players to go in the top 10 and one of the OT falls to us. There are a few EDGE rushers, Bowers, maybe a CB or DT that could go in the top 10. My money is on one of them making it to 9 and another team jumping us for him.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 07, 2024, 10:28:55 AM
I wouldn't bet on it either, but I wouldn't rule it out. 3 QBs, Odunze, Nabers, Harrison will likely go before us. That's 6 players. All it takes is for 3 other players to go in the top 10 and one of the OT falls to us. There are a few EDGE rushers, Bowers, maybe a CB or DT that could go in the top 10. My money is on one of them making it to 9 and another team jumping us for him.
Everybody in the NFL knows we need a tackle. It's the worst kept secret of the draft season. That 9th pick is insanely valuable in a track back.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 09, 2024, 08:28:11 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 09, 2024, 10:15:01 AM
We could use someone to help split the penalties with Becton.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 09, 2024, 10:35:10 AM
That'd be nice.
We could use someone to help split the penalties with Becton.
Jawaan Taylor is the one that gets flagged 8 times a game
the only player with more penalties than Mekhi
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 09, 2024, 10:55:02 AM
Jawaan Taylor is the one that gets flagged 8 times a game
the only player with more penalties than Mekhi
Withdrawn.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 09, 2024, 11:01:46 AM
Of course, we'd need to land a tackle at 10 to complete the rebuild.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 11:47:23 AM
Quote
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
End of an era: #Cowboys All-Pro and Pro Bowl LT Tyron Smith will be a free agent and is unlikely to return to Dallas, sources say. The blindside protector since 2011, Smith will be highly coveted.
(https://i.gifer.com/LbJ.gif)
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 02, 2024, 12:48:04 PM
Everybody in the NFL knows we need a tackle. It's the worst kept secret of the draft season. That 9th pick is insanely valuable in a trade back.
Funny. Heard something similar last year...
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 12:48:18 PM
Quote
"I met w/ the #Jets earlier this week. I know a few ppl on their staff, it was a great visit. It'd be awesome to block for Aaron Rodgers. It'd be truly an honor. I watched him growing up in Minnesota, so it'd be very cool."- Joe Alt
(https://i.gifer.com/LbJ.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 12:52:47 PM
Quote
Alabama T JC Latham said he had a good meeting with the Jets at the Combine and it would be a “dream” to block for Aaron Rodgers.
Latham lived in Wisconsin for a bit and grew up watching Rodgers during that time.
(https://i.gifer.com/LbJ.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 01:05:41 PM
Quote
Olu Fashanu on meeting with the #Jets & on playing with Aaron Rodgers:
"It was a very good meeting. We looked through some of my film & they asked me to talk to them about it, & they gave me great advice, so it was a great meeting. It would be awesome to block for Aaron Rodgers. He's a legend of the game, so to have the opportunity to be able to block for him would be awesome."
(https://i.gifer.com/LbJ.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 01:10:31 PM
Quote
Taliese Fuaga on what it would mean to him to block for Aaron Rodgers:
"That's just speechless for me. You see Aaron Rodgers growing up as a kid, & potentially blocking for him is crazy for me. That's a dream kinda thing."
(https://i.gifer.com/LbJ.gif)
Post by: Jumbo on March 02, 2024, 01:13:34 PM
(https://i.gifer.com/LbJ.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 01:17:33 PM
Offensive lineman: Exists
(https://i.gifer.com/LbJ.gif)
Pick one, it's a crap shoot for this team.
(https://media.tenor.com/1Ve9wcYp1QQAAAAM/doit-ben-stiller.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 01:25:49 PM
Quote
New post: Holley Mangold On Playing Football http://wp.me/p2EHcN-bS
(https://i.gifer.com/LbJ.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2024, 06:11:15 PM
Quote
"Aaron Rodgers is a guy I grew up watching...I would love that"
Georgia OT Amarius Mims on possibly being drafted by the Jets and protecting Aaron Rodgers on the offensive line:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5rffH6zms8P6o2YrR6RClhAMrn7xy6BgVrQ&usqp=CAU)
Post by: MBGreen on March 03, 2024, 11:45:54 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 09, 2024, 12:35:51 PM
Without getting into specific players:
-LT: Free agent veteran
-LG: AVT
-C: Tippmania
-RG: Free agent veteran
-RT: First round pick
I don't think the Jets can afford to expect Alt or Fashanu to make it to 10. I really don't think Douglas will trade up in round 1 to get Alt or Fashanu with the lack of picks we already have. I don't know that any other tackle is good enough to draft that high and plug in at LT day 1. The Jets have a very good chance to draft a RT that can start day 1, Fuaga being the obvious one. They might even be able to trade back and still get one.
I hope AVT will be able to play week 1. If so, he needs to be a guard. Let Tippmann be what he was drafted to be. Another solid guard should be relatively easy to sign in free agency. LT is going to be the tough one.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 09, 2024, 02:02:20 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 09, 2024, 03:53:12 PM
So what's the prediction in how we handle the OL fix?
Without getting into specific players:
-LT: Free agent veteran
-LG: AVT
-C: Tippmania
-RG: Free agent veteran
-RT: First round pick
I don't think the Jets can afford to expect Alt or Fashanu to make it to 10. I really don't think Douglas will trade up in round 1 to get Alt or Fashanu with the lack of picks we already have. I don't know that any other tackle is good enough to draft that high and plug in at LT day 1. The Jets have a very good chance to draft a RT that can start day 1, Fuaga being the obvious one. They might even be able to trade back and still get one.
I hope AVT will be able to play week 1. If so, he needs to be a guard. Let Tippmann be what he was drafted to be. Another solid guard should be relatively easy to sign in free agency. LT is going to be the tough one.
I’m so curious what the OLs get money wise.
I’d like one from each tier
“Premium tier” for this FA class
Tyron Smith
Michael Onwenu
Robert hunt
Middle tier
Lloyd Cushenberry
Kevin Zeitler
Jermaine Eleumanor
Lower tier
George Fant
David Bahktiari
And other guys I can’t remember their names at the moment.
Lots of dudes to shop on. But Douglas has to be right on two of them. In an ideal world, 2 are above average to very good starters and the third is replaced by pick 10 right away.
Post by: Johnny English on March 09, 2024, 05:08:08 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 09, 2024, 05:10:13 PM
I'm not sure that 33 year old Tyron Smith who hasn't played a full season since 2015 and has missed over half the Cowboys' games in the last four years is a premium player any more.I'd be annoyed if we signed him
Post by: Johnny English on March 09, 2024, 05:11:20 PM
I'd be annoyed if we signed him
There is a price at which it would make sense, but I doubt he wants to come play on Metlife turf for that price given his history of ankle injuries.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 09, 2024, 05:23:46 PM
I'm not sure that 33 year old Tyron Smith who hasn't played a full season since 2015 and has missed over half the Cowboys' games in the last four years is a premium player any more.
He's a premium player......when he's playing.
Post by: Johnny English on March 09, 2024, 05:41:31 PM
He's a premium player......when he's playing.So is Savid Bakhtiari, but you know what they say about the most important ability being availability.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 09, 2024, 06:02:38 PM
So is Savid Bakhtiari, but you know what they say about the most important ability being availability.
Glue them together and maybe we can get 17 games.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 10, 2024, 10:05:58 AM
#H2P
Post by: Heismanberg on March 10, 2024, 10:23:15 AM
Warren Carter SZN
#H2P
Why do you keep flipping his name, mate?
Post by: bojanglesman on March 10, 2024, 10:48:47 AM
Why do you keep flipping his name, mate?
Are you Australian?
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 10, 2024, 10:52:11 AM
Why do you keep flipping his name, mate?
Sarcasm.
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 01:02:22 PM
this would be a #seppuku worthy signing
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 01:03:37 PM
guard market is drying up
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 11, 2024, 01:30:27 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 01:42:32 PM
Rams retained Dotson and then added Jonah Jackson today
guard market is drying up
gord market was considered robust....for about 10 mins.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 11, 2024, 01:48:45 PM
gord market was considered robust for every other team besides us
FYP
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 11, 2024, 01:55:16 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 01:58:03 PM
3 years, $30M
Douglas sitting this one out...
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 11, 2024, 02:04:30 PM
Jon Runyan to the Giants
3 years, $30M
Douglas sitting this one out...
Taking a moral stand against tampering.
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 02:05:32 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/zcPYdHjzFYQAAAAM/chapelle-dave.gif)
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 11, 2024, 02:12:09 PM
Let's play guess the contract...
2 years / $24M
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 02:17:51 PM
Overpaying Bakhtiari signing incoming
Let's play guess the contract...
2 years / $24M
who cares...he'll be on the IR in june.
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 02:27:28 PM
Starting to get concerned now.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 11, 2024, 02:27:43 PM
who cares...he'll be on the IR in june.
I have DCM hat on and calculating cap impact
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 11, 2024, 02:27:59 PM
Panthers signed Hunt
Starting to get concerned now.
Mike Garafolo
#Panthers have agreed to terms with Robert Hunt on a 5-year, $100 million deal, source says. Another huge guard deal done.
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 02:30:23 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 02:32:49 PM
uSTADIUM
@uSTADIUM
Since we keep getting asked, we just spoke with free agent guard Michael Onwenu. He has yet to have any offer from the #Jets. Sorry Jets fans.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 02:34:08 PM
*Joker laugh*
uSTADIUM
@uSTADIUM
Since we keep getting asked, we just spoke with free agent guard Michael Onwenu. He has yet to have any offer from the #Jets. Sorry Jets fans.
Onwenu did not speak to Nick fuckin' Spano
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 02:34:27 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 02:34:36 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 02:35:52 PM
Onwenu did not speak to Nick fuckin' Spano
He probably did.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 11, 2024, 02:36:20 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 02:37:54 PM
What i didn't realize is that Joe Douglas is actually Lou Lamoriello.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 11, 2024, 02:38:38 PM
i remember looking at that huge Gord FA list and thinking...plenty to choose from.
What i didn't realize is that Joe Douglas is actually Lou Lamoriello.
LOL, we fuckin wish.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 11, 2024, 02:53:01 PM
Quote
Breece Hall
Looking at these O line signings like 🫣🫣🫣🫣
Post by: bojanglesman on March 11, 2024, 03:05:27 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 03:08:07 PM
@RichCimini
The #Jets dispatch their OL coach to Oregon State’s pro day to check out Taliese Fuaga, per @JimNagy_SB
.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 03:15:16 PM
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
The #Jets dispatch their OL coach to Oregon State’s pro day to check out Taliese Fuaga, per @JimNagy_SB
.
Wishful thinking
Post by: bojanglesman on March 11, 2024, 03:30:44 PM
Post by: reuben on March 11, 2024, 03:39:27 PM
i remember looking at that huge Gord FA list and thinking...plenty to choose from.
No free agent worth his salt was going to sign on to play in this unit. If the Jets aren't least desirable destination for a linemen in the NFL this season then that's only because we have good pizza.
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 04:00:40 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 11, 2024, 04:02:01 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 04:03:02 PM
I hate letting Huff go and I've been very critical of Douglas, but it's literally 5 hours into free agency. Let's see what happens.Bargain shopping
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 04:08:32 PM
After seeing how badly he fumbled the Bryce Huff situation, I'm not feeling too optimistic
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 04:11:12 PM
I hate letting Huff go and I've been very critical of Douglas, but it's literally 5 hours into free agency. Let's see what happens.
DUE DILIGENCE SZN
It's a bit concerning that we're into basically the second wave already and we've only re-signed our kicker
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 11, 2024, 04:43:11 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 05:46:52 PM
another target gone
Post by: Cane on March 11, 2024, 06:40:21 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 06:43:19 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 06:44:56 PM
Back for the sadness. Onwenu gone, too.
We’ve been waiting
Post by: bojanglesman on March 11, 2024, 06:54:23 PM
Our only redeeming quality as a destination is Rodgers.
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 07:06:46 PM
Who is left that would be a good signing? I'm just assuming Bakhtiari will be our LT unless he retires. We'll probably sign a mid tier free agent gord and draft Fuaga at RT. And hope no one dies.Bahktiari failed his physical with the Packers
Our only redeeming quality as a destination is Rodgers.
Perfect signing for this oline
Post by: bojanglesman on March 11, 2024, 07:08:10 PM
Bahktiari failed his physical with the Packers
Perfect signing for this oline
Maybe he's healed up since the last surgery. Please?!?
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 07:09:45 PM
Maybe he's healed up since the last surgery. Please?!?The Packers released him yesterday? So maybe he's healed up in the last 24 hours
Post by: bojanglesman on March 11, 2024, 07:19:45 PM
The Packers released him yesterday? So maybe he's healed up in the last 24 hours
His contract was no longer tenable even if he was healthy. His health certainly didn't help though.
We are signing him, just accept it. You'll find a way to fap to PFF videos of him blocking.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 11, 2024, 07:22:39 PM
Hasn't stopped the Giants from signing other positions today.
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 07:28:20 PM
His contract was no longer tenable even if he was healthy. His health certainly didn't help though.As long as you're willing to accept subpar oline play due to injuries...im good
We are signing him, just accept it. You'll find a way to fap to PFF videos of him blocking.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 11, 2024, 07:31:43 PM
As long as you're willing to accept subpar oline play due to injuries...im good
You'll get 6 games from Bakhtiari and like it.
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 07:33:48 PM
Nevermind the Bryce Huff bullshit...this should get Joe Douglas canned.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 11, 2024, 07:42:41 PM
Imagine spending 100+ million on an old QB and your approach to fixing your broken oline is to bargain bin shop.
Nevermind the Bryce Huff bullshit...this should get Joe Douglas canned.
Settle down. There's some moves to be made. We'll get some guys in here that will make you satisfied.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 11, 2024, 07:48:42 PM
More guys will probably come available. Morgan Moses was signed in late June. There are still some guys out there now.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 08:08:22 PM
I will wait until I see how the finished OL product looks before I get too upset.
More guys will probably come available. Morgan Moses was signed in late June. There are still some guys out there now.
What are you smoking?
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 11, 2024, 08:17:31 PM
What are you smoking?It's trending badly for sure.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 09:02:45 PM
We are missing on former Titans players that are absolutely mid at best
Post by: Jumbo on March 11, 2024, 09:10:24 PM
https://x.com/rapsheet/status/1767342576326119523?s=46&t=5ospF-7U7rY0VTGIg3PZLg
We are missing on former Titans players that are absolutely mid at best
In a way relieving we didn't sign this guy given our OL coach but very scary as far as who we will probably have to end up signing
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 09:20:02 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 11, 2024, 09:24:08 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 09:26:49 PM
We are 100% bringing back Becton.
BECHTIARI 2024
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 11, 2024, 09:28:30 PM
BECHTIARI 20247 games each and Carter Warren for the other 3.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 09:28:40 PM
It’s just complete radio silence
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 09:29:00 PM
7 games each and Carter Warren for the other 3.
Max Mitchell will be cheering inside the blue tent
Post by: bojanglesman on March 11, 2024, 09:29:47 PM
We aren’t even getting blurbs about us being in on certain FAsDouglas has always kept things quiet.
It’s just complete radio silence
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 11, 2024, 10:26:35 PM
Tyron Smith - LT
Kevin Zeitler - OG
Andrus Peat - OT
Trent Brown - OT
Connor Williams - C
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 10:35:21 PM
Settle down. There's some moves to be made. We'll get some guys in here that will make you satisfied.Lol
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 10:35:52 PM
It's trending badly for sure.It'll be better on day 4 of FA, right?
Lol
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 10:38:19 PM
LG: Simpson
C: Tippmann
RG: AVT
RT: ?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 11, 2024, 10:45:17 PM
LT: ?
LG: Simpson
C: Tippmann
RG: AVT
RT: ?
I think AVT plays guard but you could always flip flop RG/RT depending on who’s available
2 starting caliber tackles feels like a tall ask. #10 has to be an OT or imma just stop watching
Post by: Heismanberg on March 11, 2024, 10:47:21 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 11, 2024, 11:04:54 PM
Hes doing the same thing this year...and some of you are like "hey, let's wait and see"
Incredible.
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 11, 2024, 11:40:10 PM
I remember last year at this time...Douglas waited out the first wave and then signed McGovern, Schweitzer and Duane Brown.
Hes doing the same thing this year...and some of you are like "hey, let's wait and see"
Incredible.
this has to be stressed over and over.
we know what our season rides on. it's rodgers' health. we know our OL is freaking atrocious. we know there is talent out there. we need to get the best talent we can.
sitting back and 'hoping' that some guy nobody was expecting to be available just pops up and solves all of our problems....is not a serious (or mature) way of running a team.
sitting back and signing a bunch of low-mid tier guys is not serious. it's careless. it's overwhelming underprepared-ness.
why stop there.
letting go of our own home grown UDFA, who obviously had a big market, for absolutely nothing, is freaking careless.
trading a ton of value for a 40 year old QB and choosing to protect him with a 40 year old washed up OL coming off shoulder surgery with 0 offseason is freaking careless. it should be a fireable offense.
signing all of rodgers' buddies because they're his buddies is careless.
banking on zach as QB2 behind a geriatric QB in 2023 after the horrific 2022 zach had is freaking careless.
having the offense we did in 2023, with the horrid OL play we had, and not holding a single freaking person accountable (be it saleh, keith freaking carter (how the freak does he still have a job?) or hackett (lmfaoo)) is lazy, careless horseshit.
i'm sorry but this guy just sucks. everything he does is so freaking lazy. he acts like everything will magically take care of itself because rodgers is on the team. get this fat POS the freak out of here
Post by: Libero_2 on March 12, 2024, 05:24:53 AM
We have a starting Guard (whether we think he should be or not is a different story…), our backup DT for Jefferson, CB depth and our backup QB slotted in.
Today needs to be a tackle, who? I have no idea who to even discuss aside from Tyron Smith and Bahktiari. A safety and a mid-tier WR. Tomorrow we try like freaking hell to find a swing tackle that’s George Fant level in case the draft goes “horribly” wrong or #10 isn’t ready.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 12, 2024, 05:37:34 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 07:14:55 AM
Post by: Badger on March 12, 2024, 08:20:17 AM
We are 100% bringing back Becton.Like a phoenix from the ashes
Post by: Badger on March 12, 2024, 08:21:07 AM
I think AVT plays guard but you could always flip flop RG/RT depending on who’s availableJust buy your Jared Verse jersey now.
2 starting caliber tackles feels like a tall ask. #10 has to be an OT or imma just stop watching
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 09:08:40 AM
The larger than expected cap increase has made this the best time to be a FA ever lol
PFF can suck my balls for the record .
This isn't exciting but we got a very avg player for 9 mil per opposed to paying twice the price for a slightly above avg guard lol
We got a starting LG, DT depth and a backup QB
Now we need a couple more OL and a WR and preferably 1 more DT
If we end up with no OT signing then I'll be upset . But I'll wait 1 day before I get the pitchfork .
Only one deal I saw that I wish we did was Eluemunor
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 09:25:19 AM
I mean did you guys wanna pay 17 to 19 mil a yr for the other guys?
The larger than expected cap increase has made this the best time to be a FA ever lol
PFF can suck my balls for the record .
This isn't exciting but we got a very avg player for 9 mil per opposed to paying twice the price for a slightly above avg guard lol
We got a starting LG, DT depth and a backup QB
Now we need a couple more OL and a WR and preferably 1 more DT
If we end up with no OT signing then I'll be upset . But I'll wait 1 day before I get the pitchfork .
Only one deal I saw that I wish we did was Eluemunor
Robert Hunt is a stud at 27 years old...graded in the top 7 for starting Guards last year...and freak yes, i would've paid his price to get him.
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 09:31:40 AM
Robert Hunt is a stud at 27 years old...graded in the top 7 for starting Guards last year...and freak yes, i would've paid his price to get him.Then we disagree . I'd rather pay Tyron or Trent to play OT .
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 12, 2024, 09:32:17 AM
I mean did you guys wanna pay 17 to 19 mil a yr for the other guys?
For an actually good player in a position of need where we are missing talent and durability? Yes.
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 09:37:05 AM
Then we disagree . I'd rather pay Tyron or Trent to play OT .
Tyron hasn't played a full season without injury since 2015.
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 09:39:47 AM
Tyron hasn't played a full season without injury since 2015.And I'd rather overpay and upgrade LT than OG
It's pretty simple we disagree but im gonna hold off to see the final build before I freak out .
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 09:42:47 AM
It's clear we went a bargain route but got a very avg starter
I'll be upset if we don't spend on OT and WR to make up for OG and letting Huff walk .
I get why people are upset . But im just exhausted in operating out of dread and anger .
Get me a functional OT and 1 more interior OL and we should be ok .
If we don't then ill join the revolt lol .
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 12, 2024, 09:54:58 AM
Rodgers can make receivers better. He can't make linemen block better.
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 10:29:23 AM
We should've been happily overpaying all over the OL. It's the most critical need for this team. Far better to overpay for protection for an old QB who can sling it and then use draft capital on WR.Unfortunately the cap is real regardless of the illiterate gumbo magic NO operates under
Rodgers can make receivers better. He can't make linemen block better.
I still think guys like Zeitler and Trent Brown are on the table
We went for the bargain to replace Tomlinson . Not shocked . (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240312/267e499b573984ab2909ed5081860cd8.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 10:36:16 AM
Unfortunately the cap is real regardless of the illiterate gumbo magic NO operates under
I still think guys like Zeitler and Trent Brown are on the table
We went for the bargain to replace Tomlinson . Not shocked . (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240312/267e499b573984ab2909ed5081860cd8.jpg)
the cap can be circumvented...smart teams do it. We're not a smart team.
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 10:40:06 AM
the cap can be circumvented...smart teams do it. We're not a smart team.Would you want Cushenberry or any of these deals for us or is it just Hunt you're upset about
Hunt was probably the only one worth overpaying for but after that the rest of these deals so far are meh at best .
So im not gonna smile at what's transpired but there's some solid vets who are available and if this all blows up anyways we will be drafting young talent regardless
I think OT at 10 is a must regardless what we do tbh lol .
Post by: Jumbo on March 12, 2024, 10:44:06 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 10:46:40 AM
Would you want Cushenberry or any of these deals for us or is it just Hunt you're upset about
Hunt was probably the only one worth overpaying for but after that the rest of these deals so far are meh at best .
So im not gonna smile at what's transpired but there's some solid vets who are available and if this all blows up anyways we will be drafting young talent regardless
I think OT at 10 is a must regardless what we do tbh lol .
I've been on the OT at 10 train since midseason last year.
Hunt bothered me, yes. But there were a lot of decent gords available yesterday (some stayed with their teams, some didn't)...we should've been all over the ones that were willing to move. I've seen enough shitty oline play to last multiple lifetimes. I normally don't advocate for overspending in FA, but the oline needed this...sitting and waiting is what we did last year, and you saw what happened.
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 10:47:46 AM
Overpaying to overpay is how you end up with a Laken Tomlinson contract anyway, and then we'd bitch that we overpaid for a excrement player
Sitting on our thumbs and rotating didn't work either.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 12, 2024, 10:48:22 AM
Overpaying to overpay is how you end up with a Laken Tomlinson contract anyway, and then we'd bitch that we overpaid for a excrement player
Who was the excrement player that the board is complaining about not signing?
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 10:49:09 AM
Overpaying to overpay is how you end up with a Laken Tomlinson contract anyway, and then we'd bitch that we overpaid for a excrement playerThis is basically what I'm getting at. We thought we were getting a Hunt type player when we got Tomlinson and there was 0 indicator he'd suck that bad once he got paid
So yeah
Like I said the only deal I saw and legit wish we did was Eluemenor .
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 10:51:39 AM
Who was the excrement player that the board is complaining about not signing?We're basically upset we didn't make Hunt a top 2 or 3 paid OG. Which I can get the argument as to why you do that . Just not gonna get upset about anything else .
Everyone else who signed yesterday is mid tier at best imo. And I'm not gonna get up in arms about not paying them .
Again I maintain the only real deal I wish we did was Elumenor
Post by: Jumbo on March 12, 2024, 11:06:36 AM
This is basically what I'm getting at. We thought we were getting a Hunt type player when we got Tomlinson and there was 0 indicator he'd suck that bad once he got paid
So yeah
Like I said the only deal I saw and legit wish we did was Eluemenor .
Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. No one was upset with the Tomlinson contract when it was signed.
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 11:08:10 AM
Post by: Coach K on March 12, 2024, 11:19:38 AM
Post by: Johnny English on March 12, 2024, 11:45:08 AM
I've been on the OT at 10 train since midseason last year.
Mid-season last year we were around .500 and had no idea where we would be picking.
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 12:01:19 PM
Overpaying to overpay is how you end up with a Laken Tomlinson contract anyway, and then we'd bitch that we overpaid for a excrement player
We literally did jack last year for the oline aside from a few fringe signings....and people bitched all season (and for good reason). Now, some of these same people are saying we shouldn't overspend to fix the oline? How the freak do you think it gets fixed? We only have 2 picks in the first 3 rounds in April...
Laken Tomlinson was a probowl G at the time we signed him...he may have turned into a turnip, but he didn't miss any playing time which says a lot given the injury circumstances. The signing was justified at the time.
There are some good players still available, but so far, it looks like we're taking the same approach as last season. We love to rinse and repeat dogshit ideas here, i guess.
Post by: MBGreen on March 12, 2024, 12:01:53 PM
Mid-season last year we were around .500 and had no idea where we would be picking.
still wanted an OT...didn't care if it was in the top 5 or the bottom 20.
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 12, 2024, 12:36:17 PM
approaching it that way makes a guy like fant become your plan A
Post by: reuben on March 12, 2024, 12:42:58 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 12, 2024, 01:03:35 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 12, 2024, 07:07:11 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/ZoISyXeAtRQAAAAM/necessary-roughness.gif)
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 13, 2024, 12:04:06 PM
Now I don't mind going after a guy like Bakhtiari, assuming we still take an OT at 10. That's what you do with Bakhtiari. I don't mind bringing him in as Rodgers' guy, but you need a ton of insurance policies. Bringing in Bakh to allow our 1st-round OT to develop a little more slowly makes sense and improves our depth.
Post by: insanity on March 13, 2024, 12:07:51 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 13, 2024, 12:10:00 PM
Rookie-Simpson-Tippmann-AVT-Moses
Now I don't mind going after a guy like Bakhtiari, assuming we still take an OT at 10. That's what you do with Bakhtiari. I don't mind bringing him in as Rodgers' guy, but you need a ton of insurance policies. Bringing in Bakh to allow our 1st-round OT to develop a little more slowly makes sense and improves our depth.
I'm in favor of your suggestion...load up on OL (i don't trust Bahk's or Tyron Smith's health). But the thought of drafting Nabers or Odunze at 10 is enticing.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 13, 2024, 12:13:39 PM
I'm in favor of your suggestion...load up on OL (i don't trust Bahk's or Tyron Smith's health). But the thought of drafting Nabers or Odunze at 10 is enticing.I love the receivers in this draft and badly hope we draft one. I would be fine if we took one in round 3. But we still need more help up front IMO.
However, we now have the makings of a competent offensive line. Moses and Simpson are solid starters that we hopefully don't have to question that much. Combine competent players with a competent quarterback making better reads and getting the ball out faster and the OL should look a lot better.
Still need one more premium addition (1st round?) and at least one more depth guy (Bakh?). AVT can also factor in as the 4th tackle. Schweitzer is fine as the backup IOL. Then Mitchell and Warren can round out the depth chart.
Post by: insanity on March 13, 2024, 12:15:30 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 13, 2024, 12:16:14 PM
I love the receivers in this draft and badly hope we draft one. I would be fine if we took one in round 3. But we still need more help up front IMO.
However, we now have the makings of a competent offensive line. Moses and Simpson are solid starters that we hopefully don't have to question that much. Combine competent players with a competent quarterback making better reads and getting the ball out faster and the OL should look a lot better.
Still need one more premium addition (1st round?) and at least one more depth guy (Bakh?). AVT can also factor in as the 4th tackle. Schweitzer is fine as the backup IOL. Then Mitchell and Warren can round out the depth chart.
If we end up drafting Bowers at 10 (while passing on the wideouts/OL), i'll probably drink myself into a coma.
EDIT: once Bowers goes (hopefully in front of the jets) i'll be fine....
i like him, just not at 10, and there will be premium position players available. Can't freak this up like last year.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 13, 2024, 12:31:24 PM
It's seemingly not the worst option, albeit I don't see it happening
Post by: bojanglesman on March 13, 2024, 12:44:23 PM
Is there a realistic chance we try to bring back Mehki if his market isn't as robust as he hoped?
It's seemingly not the worst option, albeit I don't see it happening
I think he's a good backup LT right now. He's an injury risk just like Bakhtiari and Tyron Smith, but they are better when healthy.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 13, 2024, 01:03:15 PM
The only thing with him is that I didn't notice it as much in real time, but seeing some of his film after the season ended, he looked downright awful at times. Still having Carter means there's no one to teach him anything new or make new adjustments.
But on a prove it deal with the understanding that he's got to earn the job, I think it's worth taking one more shot with him. But I still want to draft at least one tackle.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 13, 2024, 01:11:34 PM
I said all year I would bring Becton back, and still would if he takes a prove it deal.
The only thing with him is that I didn't notice it as much in real time, but seeing some of his film after the season ended, he looked downright awful at times. Still having Carter means there's no one to teach him anything new or make new adjustments.
But on a prove it deal with the understanding that he's got to earn the job, I think it's worth taking one more shot with him. But I still want to draft at least one tackle.
I'd take him as a swing tackle. I don't know that he's going to find a team willing to start him. He might would rather not be here either way.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 13, 2024, 01:17:18 PM
I'd take him as a swing tackle. I don't know that he's going to find a team willing to start him. He might would rather not be here either way.
Yeah, he likely wants a change of scenery, and that's fine. But like I said, on a short-term prove-it, I'm fine with him coming back. He had a good rapport with Rodgers until play #4.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 13, 2024, 01:21:58 PM
Maybe they bring in Becton and Bakh and whoever makes it to Week 1 is the starter.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 13, 2024, 01:24:44 PM
Feels like a lot of bridges have been burnt, and I doubt Becton will want to come back to be a caddie for the No. 10 pick.
Maybe they bring in Becton and Bakh and whoever makes it to Week 1 is the starter.
I think it's a safe assumption that if Becton is brought back it's either as a starter or because his market is an absolute freaking nightmare
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 13, 2024, 01:25:22 PM
Post by: reuben on March 13, 2024, 01:27:04 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on March 13, 2024, 01:28:11 PM
You didn't notice him looking awful while he was one of the worst performing tackles at the end of the season?
Not talking about him getting a monster contract
Just saying he's not coming back here to be a backup.
The Jets are desperate so he might be a better option
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 13, 2024, 01:28:34 PM
Not talking about him getting a monster contract
Just saying he's not coming back here to be a backup.
The Jets are desperate so he might be a better option
I was replying to Alio
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 13, 2024, 01:34:01 PM
- Sucks
- Penalty machine
- pee poor mental strength
- Always an injury risk
- Going to cost a lot more than he is actually worth, due to ‘young LT’ tags
I do not want to waste a single dime on him. If our plan for LT is any combination of becton and bakhtiari, JD will have learned nothing from the extremely careless gamble he took with duane brown that led our franchise QB to a fucked achilles 4 plays in
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 13, 2024, 01:48:44 PM
Not talking about him getting a monster contractI don't know if any team is signing Becton to be a starter without competition.
Just saying he's not coming back here to be a backup.
The Jets are desperate so he might be a better option
He seems to have burned too many bridges here to come back, but who knows.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 13, 2024, 02:22:08 PM
You didn't notice him looking awful while he was one of the worst performing tackles at the end of the season?
At the end of the season, yeah. At that point, everyone looked like garbage, but he'd struggled earlier than I'd noticed. I saw it on film after the season and was like "Oh..."
Post by: MBGreen on March 13, 2024, 02:24:56 PM
At the end of the season, yeah. At that point, everyone looked like garbage, but he'd struggled earlier than I'd noticed. I saw it on film after the season and was like "Oh..."
not garbage enough to lose in week 18...which fucked us some more.
Post by: Badger on March 13, 2024, 07:14:59 PM
Who was the excrement player that the board is complaining about not signing?Laken Tomlinson was a good player with a Pro Bowl under his belt and immediately after signing with us became a below average player whose only redeeming quality was not being injured.
Not saying it would happen with the upper tier of this year's OL FAs but there was no good reason to expect him to flop so badly.
Post by: delavan on March 13, 2024, 07:56:43 PM
https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/1762517840521822659
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 13, 2024, 08:07:39 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on March 13, 2024, 08:18:19 PM
So John Harbaugh’s looked to move on from 40% (2/5) of our ’new & improved’ OL?
https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/1762517840521822659
Not to be a Debbie downer… but just because they represent upgrades for us, does not mean they are better than average. Factor in Moses being 33, trying to get younger and better makes sense.
In our case we suck so bad at multiple OL spots that average is a tremendous upgrade.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 13, 2024, 08:25:19 PM
Sooo...with the addition of Moses, we're still drafting OT at 10 right? RIGHT?!?!?
Most likely still our top need
We’ve done nothing to upgrade the WR room yet though
Post by: Libero_2 on March 13, 2024, 08:32:00 PM
Most likely still our top need
We’ve done nothing to upgrade the WR room yet though
IF and this is a big IF we add another starting caliber OT I could see the “all in” move as trading up for a top tier playmaker in Nabers. You can’t tell me if the Jets went to Harbaugh or Daboll and said we will give you 10 and next years 1 for 5 (or 6) and a 2025 3rd that they wouldn’t be seriously interested in doing so.
At 5 you feel really good about a choice between Alt and Nabers and at 6 you get either guy. And hell if Arizona is one of the supposed few teams who prefers Nabers to Harrison Jr… all the better
Post by: loyaljetsfan on March 13, 2024, 08:32:57 PM
Most likely still our top need
We’ve done nothing to upgrade the WR room yet though
If Fashanu and Nabers are sitting at 10...who you want?
Post by: casman02 on March 13, 2024, 08:53:59 PM
If Fashanu and Nabers are sitting at 10...who you want?Today I would take Nabers
Post by: d sw0rdz on March 13, 2024, 08:54:21 PM
If Fashanu and Nabers are sitting at 10...who you want?
We would run up there and take Bowers, we freaking know it
Post by: Coach K on March 13, 2024, 09:23:39 PM
So John Harbaugh’s looked to move on from 40% (2/5) of our ’new & improved’ OL?This was similar to Chuck Clark . Still good enough tonstart but replacements were groomed
https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/1762517840521822659
They prefer to move some guys for any capital last yr
It's a win win for both .
Plus they actually know how to reload on OL in general
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 13, 2024, 10:47:53 PM
This was similar to Chuck Clark . Still good enough tonstart but replacements were groomed
They prefer to move some guys for any capital last yr
It's a win win for both .
Plus they actually know how to reload on OL in general
That must be nice
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 14, 2024, 12:24:20 AM
IF and this is a big IF we add another starting caliber OT I could see the “all in” move as trading up for a top tier playmaker in Nabers. You can’t tell me if the Jets went to Harbaugh or Daboll and said we will give you 10 and next years 1 for 5 (or 6) and a 2025 3rd that they wouldn’t be seriously interested in doing so.The goal should be to enter the draft where opposing teams don't all know what our biggest need is.
At 5 you feel really good about a choice between Alt and Nabers and at 6 you get either guy. And hell if Arizona is one of the supposed few teams who prefers Nabers to Harrison Jr… all the better
If 4 quarterbacks are going in the top 10, that means we just need one more player to go in order for one of Harrison, Odunze, Nabers, Alt and Fashanu to be there at 10. So if Dallas Turner goes in the top 10, we are guaranteed a very strong WR or OT prospect.
This team should not be trading up. We do not have a 2nd-round pick.
I still lean towards taking the OT. We need all the OL help we can get. Build the OL and everything looks better. We have a top-3 RB in the NFL and a top-10 WR. If the OL can make room for Breece and give time for Rodgers to find Garrett, then WR2/WR3 don't need to be as important. Especially in a deep WR class where we can get a usable player in round 3.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 14, 2024, 05:21:53 AM
The goal should be to enter the draft where opposing teams don't all know what our biggest need is.
If 4 quarterbacks are going in the top 10, that means we just need one more player to go in order for one of Harrison, Odunze, Nabers, Alt and Fashanu to be there at 10. So if Dallas Turner goes in the top 10, we are guaranteed a very strong WR or OT prospect.
This team should not be trading up. We do not have a 2nd-round pick.
I still lean towards taking the OT. We need all the OL help we can get. Build the OL and everything looks better. We have a top-3 RB in the NFL and a top-10 WR. If the OL can make room for Breece and give time for Rodgers to find Garrett, then WR2/WR3 don't need to be as important. Especially in a deep WR class where we can get a usable player in round 3.
I’m not advocating for it, I’m just saying I think that we’ve been speculating for months about being “all-in” this year and expecting big “win now” moves. They clearly aren’t happening in FA. So maybe it comes in the draft. And if JD feels solid about his OL ahead of draft day, I could see the move being “go get a playmaker that’s ready to be a star right now”
- has the added bonus of giving Rodgers something he’s never had, a first round offensive talent.
- Nabers and MHJ are elite level prospects that everyone expects to be special from day 1. And a few years ago the Bengals went the Chase over Sewell route and are not sad they did.
- if we don’t need a plug and play starter on day 1, why not focus on prospects with starter upside in the 3rd and fourth to round out OL depth?
Again, not advocating it, but I can see it as an option, because Curtis Samuel isn’t moving the neeedle enough as a playmaker. Theoretically Tyron Smith moves it enough for the OL to be sound on draft night.
Post by: MBGreen on March 14, 2024, 07:22:39 AM
If Fashanu and Nabers are sitting at 10...who you want?
yes
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2024, 09:05:41 AM
If Fashanu and Nabers are sitting at 10...who you want?
I would take Malik Nabers, Rome Odunze, or Adonai Mitchell over Fashanu.
Post by: MBGreen on March 14, 2024, 09:23:45 AM
@RichCimini
The Jets have re-signed G Jake Hanson, the team announced. He was a non-tendered restricted free agent who started four games last season. #Jets
Post by: Libero_2 on March 14, 2024, 09:51:40 AM
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
The Jets have re-signed G Jake Hanson, the team announced. He was a non-tendered restricted free agent who started four games last season. #Jets
I’d like him to be OG7 and cut in camp please
Post by: bojanglesman on March 14, 2024, 09:59:33 AM
Post by: reuben on March 14, 2024, 10:21:44 AM
I’d like him to be OG7 and cut in camp please
I thought Hanson showed some promise, I think he'll be good depth.
Post by: MBGreen on March 14, 2024, 10:23:29 AM
I thought Hanson showed some promise, I think he'll be good depth.
mmm...bop?
Post by: Libero_2 on March 14, 2024, 10:30:40 AM
I thought Hanson showed some promise, I think he'll be good depth.
If we draft two guys on the line and Hansen sends Max Mitchell or Carter Warren packing, then more power to the guy
Post by: Johnny English on March 14, 2024, 12:44:01 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 14, 2024, 01:02:34 PM
He started 4 games last season? I don't think I've ever heard of him.
He was serviceable.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2024, 03:12:32 PM
Andre Dillard
Sport Logo - Football.svg
FA
Tackle
#71
Titans released OT Andre Dillard.
Dillard carried a cap hit just north of $10.6 million for this season. Despite having two years left on his deal, the Titans opted to cut Dillard and take on the $7.8 dead cap hit in exchange for saving $2.8 million in cap space. Dillard started 10 of 16 games he appeared in for the Titans last season, earning a PFF blocking grade of 51.0 while allowing 12 sacks on 41 quarterback pressures. It wasn’t a good 2023 for the veteran linemen, but at just 28 years old, another team could take a shot on him.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 15, 2024, 03:13:28 PM
I'd say there's only like a 97% chance we sign this guy
We should avoid signing shitty players
Post by: dcm1602 on March 15, 2024, 03:16:35 PM
We should avoid signing shitty players
Hopefully JDs replacement buys into this philosophy.
But with strong connections to our coaching staff and our OL being entirely dogshit, the Jets have to be the front runners to sign the dude
Post by: bojanglesman on March 15, 2024, 03:18:10 PM
Hopefully JDs replacement buys into this philosophy.
But with strong connections to our coaching staff and our OL being entirely dogshit, the Jets have to be the front runners to sign the dude
We're going to the playoffs with Rodgers. Big Doug stays.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 15, 2024, 03:36:39 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 15, 2024, 11:49:21 PM
Joe Tippman
Josh Simpson
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2024, 11:56:11 PM
Becton is:
- Sucks
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 15, 2024, 11:59:51 PM
He started 4 games last season? I don't think I've ever heard of him.
You are a Jets fan. We are Jake Hanson fans
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 16, 2024, 12:29:18 AM
Ryan Clady
Kelvin Beachum
Mehki Becton
George Fant
Duane Brown
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2024, 02:08:26 AM
Projected starters for the OLine currently under contract with the Jets in 2025:It's why I still won't be upset if the 10 pick is an OT.
Joe Tippman
Josh Simpson
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 16, 2024, 09:21:34 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2024, 09:34:55 AM
I’m drunk on OL and I still want more
So do I...or one of the wideouts.
But i learned last year that Douglas's draft board is the trump card, and it plays no favorites.
Within the Jets war room...the draft board > conventional wisdom.
All we can do is pray that the top of his draft board is all OL/WR
Post by: insanity on March 16, 2024, 10:57:47 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2024, 11:20:30 AM
If becton can't find work as a starter I'd love to bring him back for a few sheckles and have him sit behind smith and Moses for a year. Maybe he will still suck, but atleast we will have given him every shot possible to reach his potential
I'd be fine with him as a swing tackle, but I doubt he wants to come back here to do that. He wants a fresh start somewhere.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2024, 11:22:33 AM
If becton can't find work as a starter I'd love to bring him back for a few sheckles and have him sit behind smith and Moses for a year. Maybe he will still suck, but atleast we will have given him every shot possible to reach his potentialI think that bridge is burnt
Post by: insanity on March 16, 2024, 11:39:00 AM
I think that bridge is burntI agree but I am not going to doubt the power of Aaron rodgers rubbing his back on the sidelines and whispering sweet nothings into his ear has on his decision making
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2024, 11:41:26 AM
I agree but I am not going to doubt the power of Aaron rodgers rubbing his back on the sidelines and whispering sweet nothings into his ear has on his decision making
"I need you here man. 9/11 was an inside job."
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 16, 2024, 01:25:35 PM
Tyron Smith: 83.7
John Simpson: 56.3
Joe Tippmann: 61.0
Alijah Vera-Tucker: 71.7
Morgan Moses: 80.4
Their pressure rate from 2023
Smith: 6.5%
Simpson: 6.5%
Tippmann: 7.5%
AVT: 14.2%
Moses: 11.1%
It’s not a perfect line but are undoubtedly more talented than last year
Post by: Miamipuck on March 16, 2024, 01:38:49 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2024, 01:40:00 PM
I wouldn't complain at all about going OL at 10, but it would be funny to see how Jets fans react. Last year, everyone hated the WMD pick because we were a win-now team and he wouldn't play that many snaps. Can make a similar argument with offensive line. It isn't quite the same because we are so starved for offensive production that I think all of us would rather invest in the offense than the defense, but a WR is almost guaranteed to play more snaps than an OT.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2024, 01:42:45 PM
Post by: reuben on March 16, 2024, 04:37:03 PM
You don't need a dominant offensive line. It's nice to have, but it's not necessary. If we have a solid offensive line along with Aaron Rodgers calling out plays, he should be able to get the ball out faster and put us in situations to succeed far more than Zach and co. did.
Do you think we have a solid offensive line? Do you think we have anything close to a solid offensive line?
Post by: Libero_2 on March 16, 2024, 04:53:54 PM
Do you think we have a solid offensive line? Do you think we have anything close to a solid offensive line?
Our line could be 10 times better than a year ago and still be below average.
Here’s hoping we are 20 times better starting in August
Post by: MexJetinBcn on March 16, 2024, 05:57:48 PM
Do you think we have a solid offensive line? Do you think we have anything close to a solid offensive line?
I think we have anything close to a solid OL.
Post by: Badger on March 16, 2024, 07:31:11 PM
LTs since BrickWe should have kept Beachum longer.
Ryan Clady
Kelvin Beachum
Mehki Becton
George Fant
Duane Brown
Post by: Badger on March 16, 2024, 07:37:49 PM
You don't need a dominant offensive line. It's nice to have, but it's not necessary.
Historically speaking the Jets have been unable to make the playoffs without a dominant OL. We really are counting on Rodgers to make up for a lot.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 16, 2024, 10:45:12 PM
Do you think we have a solid offensive line? Do you think we have anything close to a solid offensive line?Tyron Smith is one of the best tackles in the NFL when he's healthy.
AVT is one of the best guards in the NFL when healthy.
Simpson and Moses aren't special, but they are solid.
Tippmann is a wild card, but when you draft an IOL that high, you're expecting good things.
On paper, this is the best offensive line we've had in a decade. Some injury concerns, but I think AVT's injuries have been kind of fluky. Moses has been healthy most of his career except last year. Tyron is the big injury concern.
I expect the OL to be legitimately good when it's healthy. Depth is a concern, but depth is always a concern. We were playing practice squad guys at the end of last season. Laken Tomlinson and Mekhi Becton are still on the market for a reason.
Post by: Badger on March 19, 2024, 04:25:52 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240319/10ffab0b43425e6a2be49f84ecdc02e2.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on March 19, 2024, 05:33:18 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 19, 2024, 06:23:45 AM
Becton-Laken-Tippmann-Newman-MitchellGulag
Post by: bojanglesman on March 19, 2024, 06:41:09 AM
Gulag
I remember thinking that if we could just get Wes Schweitzer back we'd be average. Desperate times.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 19, 2024, 02:48:17 PM
I know the social media team doesn't make personnel decisions but they seem content with this starting five.Unless they draft someone at 10 (or trade down), I assume that's the starting OL. And even if they draft someone, that could still be the starting OL.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240319/10ffab0b43425e6a2be49f84ecdc02e2.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on March 25, 2024, 07:18:30 AM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
To prevent injuries, especially the OL, Saleh says there will be changes in terms of their regimen. He won't share specifics, but they did study the injury rate and ways to solve it. #Jets
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-12/256/eyes.png)
Post by: MBGreen on March 25, 2024, 07:23:49 AM
Quote
Zack Rosenblatt
@ZackBlatt
Robert Saleh on Keith Carter and players expressing frustration: "For Keith, he is a hard charging football coach ... he's a damn good football coach. Sometimes messaging can get lost. I know he's working on all that stuff. I'm not worried about his ability to coach this football team."
Emphasizing how much the #Jets improved as a run blocking team over the season.
lol Keith Carter sucks, Bob. Our pass blocking was non-existent.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 25, 2024, 07:28:58 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 25, 2024, 07:32:40 AM
Saleh would be best served taking a page from Belichick. "Our coaches are coaching. (Blank stare)".
this whole staff should've been canned.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 25, 2024, 08:11:31 AM
lol Keith Carter sucks, Bob. Our pass blocking was non-existent.
Talent on the OL was also non-existent
Post by: MBGreen on March 25, 2024, 08:49:29 AM
Talent on the OL was also non-existent
certainly a recipe for success.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 25, 2024, 01:18:46 PM
Yes, when people stop listening because you're an poopchute that isn't helping anyone, your "message" gets lost. Glad Saleh's got that one all figured out!
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 30, 2024, 10:16:20 PM
Talent on the OL was also non-existent
There were two problems.