Jet Offensive
New York Jets Football => ...And The Home Of The Jets => Topic started by: Heismanberg on November 17, 2013, 10:50:23 PM
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Bumping a thread about an old quote from Rex Ryan doesn't do this topic justice. It's really the key issue with the New York Jets right now, and it has been for every season of the Ryan era.
Geno Smith has done close to nothing to prove to the organization that he deserves to be the guy. After 11 weeks of pro football, he's shown little improvement, especially as a multi-read quarterback. This team had a late season BYE week, and Smith put together his worst performance as a pro after having an extra week to prepare for Buffalo.
It was said a few times in the game thread by multiple posters, and I'll say it in here again: today could have very well been the beginning of the end of the Geno Smith experiment.
I'm going to put together a list of future quarterback prospects and 2014 free agents at the position. In my opinion, the draft is the way to go. 2014's QB class has more talent than I have ever seen, which is a big reason why I wanted to stay away from the QBs in the 2013 draft.
2014 NFL Draft QBs
Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville
Johnny Manziel - Texas A&M
Derek Carr - Fresno State
Brett Hundley - UCLA
Zach Mettenberger - LSU
Bryce Petty - Baylor
AJ McCarron - Alabama
Marcus Mariota - Oregon
Kevin Hogan - Stanford
Blake Bortles - UCF
Tajh Boyd - Clemson
All 11 of these players could be considered in the first round. Not all of them will enter, but the more the better.
There's three lesser known prospects at the position that will rise after postseason all-star games and the NFL Combine
Keith Wenning - Ball State
Jimmy Garoppollo - Eastern Illinois
Jeff Mathews - Cornell
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2014 Free Agent QBs
Jay Cutler
Michael Vick
Josh Freeman
Chad Henne
Tarvaris Jackson
Josh McCown
Kellen Clemens
Matt Cassel
Colt McCoy
Jimmy Clausen
I'm not really big on any of these guys coming to New York except for maybe Josh McCown in a short-term starter/backup role.
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where's the obligatory trade for Kirk Cousins option
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where's the obligatory trade for Kirk Cousins option
I don't see anything wrong with acquiring Kirk Cousins for a third round or later pick depending on which QBs are on still on the board...
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Half sarcasm half serious. Neither do I. Though I have no idea what it would actually take. 3rd? 3rd + a later pick? 2nd? Where does it stop being comfortable?
I'd rather do that than take a QB prospect outside of the 1st round, it'd probably be the best shot at competing next year.
but I know nothing
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Which ever prospect can read an NFL defense, I will take that one.
Which ever prospect improves and learns from his mistakes, I will take that one.
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Half sarcasm half serious. Neither do I. Though I have no idea what it would actually take. 3rd? 3rd + a later pick? 2nd? Where does it stop being comfortable?
I'd rather do that than take a QB prospect outside of the 1st round, it'd probably be the best shot at competing next year.
but I know nothing
I wouldn't give up anything higher than a third rounder for Kirk Cousins.
He was originally drafted in the fourth round, and he's got a very limited amount of real game experience. So, he hasn't done nearly enough to elevate his stock by two rounds.
A fourth and a sixth may be a possibility.
In order to fully separate from Geno Smith, the Jets will need to make a decently high profile move. You have to bring a better quality prospect through the draft or acquire someone to come in and take his job.
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I'm pretty sure that if they traded for Cousins and had a qb competition next year, Geno would lose. And if not, hooray!
If he's worth a 3rd at most and they came back asking for a 3rd and 6th, you say no?
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Which ever prospect can read an NFL defense, I will take that one.
Which ever prospect improves and learns from his mistakes, I will take that one.
We can basically toss Bridgewater out of the picture. He will be gone.
McCarron, Carr, and Manziel are our best bets, in my opinion.
McCarron runs a pro-style offense better than anyone in college football.
Carr has had incredible success in multiple schemes (pro-style and the up-tempo spread). He makes all of his own calls at the LOS.
Manziel is tough to gauge from a mental standpoint. A lot of his big plays happen because he buys a ton of time with his legs, and his targets move to get open. That's not necessarily making multiple reads. He definitely has enough physical ability to start in the NFL, he'll just need some work in the pocket.
I really like Bryce Petty, but he's a one year starter in a very passer-friendly offense at Baylor. Marcus Mariota benefits from playing in a great system as well.
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If he's worth a 3rd at most and they came back asking for a 3rd and 6th, you say no?
With all of the comp picks this team will have, throwing in an extra late rounder to get it done wouldn't hurt.
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I love McCarron. He is incredibly level headed and appears to have every physical tool. He never seems to make the wrong decision.
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I love McCarron. He is incredibly level headed and appears to have every physical tool. He never seems to make the wrong decision.
He doesn't have a great arm, and that keeps him from being an elite prospect. He's still a first round caliber quarterback, in my opinion.
I see Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, and a little bit of Chad Pennington in this kid.
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Only guy I wholeheartedly do not want is Manziel. I think he will bust so tragically that an ESPN 30 for 30 will be made in his honor.
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Only guy I wholeheartedly do not want is Manziel. I think he will bust so tragically that an ESPN 30 for 30 will be made in his honor.
I don't really have a problem with what he does off the field, and what he does on the field is amazing at times.
He's the most marketable QB in this class, and the spotlight of New York won't mess with him at all.
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If you want to know how much it will cost to trade for Kirk Cousins, just look at the Matt Schaub trade.
Two 2nd round picks and a swap of 1st's. And quite frankly, Cousins has done more for the Skins than Schaub did for the Falcons.
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If you want to know how much it will cost to trade for Kirk Cousins, just look at the Matt Schaub trade.
Two 2nd round picks and a swap of 1st's. And quite frankly, Cousins has done more for the Skins than Schaub did for the Falcons.
Matt Schaub was a third round pick. He started two games for Atlanta, but played a lot in the regular season. A huge game against NE really raised his stock.
ATL stats: 84 of 161 for 1,033 yards with 6 TDs and 6 INTs (3 seasons)
Kirk Cousins was a fourth round pick. He's started two games, and played sparingly behind RGIII.
WSH stats: 38 of 57 for 514 yards with 4 TDs and 5 INTs (1.5 seasons)
Also, that was Houston's way to move on from David Carr. They had to make a splashy move.
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I don't like Mariota or Hogan as prospects. Someone like McCarron Hundley or Carr wold be perfect
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I don't like Mariota or Hogan as prospects. Someone like McCarron Hundley or Carr wold be perfect
I despise Marcus Mariota.
Kevin Hogan needs to stay in school. He's only going to get better, but it's not his time yet. Too many strong prospects ahead of him.
Brett Hundley probably needs to stay at UCLA, and I think that he will.
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I don't like Mariota or Hogan as prospects. Someone like McCarron Hundley or Carr wold be perfect
Hogan's still young, but if he comes out this year, I want absolutely no part of him.
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Hogan's still young, but if he comes out this year, I want absolutely no part of him.
If he comes out this year, he'll fall to at least the third round.
He's the kind of player that you stash and develop behind someone like Rivers or Brady.
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I don't think a 3rd is enough for Cousins.
On Derek Carr, how do you compare him to David Carr? And if you see Derek as a better prospect, do you think David's play is underrating Derek at all?
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I don't think a 3rd is enough for Cousins.
On Derek Carr, how do you compare him to David Carr? And if you see Derek as a better prospect, do you think David's play is underrating Derek at all?
Pretty different play styles from what I have seen actually. David seems more accurate and both have pretty solid arms and get flustered under pressure though.
Outside that Derek seems to manage the game/turnovers more effectively and seems to have more solid mechanics.
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I don't typically study tape until the off-season, and just some quick observations.
I would love it if Blake Bortles or Bryce Petty (Have watched quite a bit of Baylor this year) come out this year. Bryce Petty plays for a run first offense by design, but winds up being very pass happy (They take a lot of snaps per game). Baylor is a run first team though. He also doesn't tend to see much pressure, and as a one year starter, that scares me. How do can you judge his pocket presence under pressure? He reminds me of a more gifted passer than Jake Locker, or a Tim Tebow that can pass 6'3" 230lbs and faster. He fits what Rex Ryan is trying to build, IMO. I haven't really studied Bortles, but from what I have seen from him, I would take him in a heart beat.
AJ McCarron reminds me of Alex Smith, and he would be a perfect fit for our offense. Take care of the football, but he can make the necessary throws. The ultimate game manager, IMO. However, a talented team like Alabama concerns me. It isn't fair to judge him based on his teammates, but they don't play teams that have like talent. In the pros he will have to, so it is a valid concern.
Zach Mettenberger has raised some questions to his decision making the past couple weeks. However, he is having to put the team on his shoulders lately, and not rely on a great defense that he had the luxury of last year. He has had a pretty dominate runner behind him in though.
The one player I do not want is Manziel. I don't see the maturity of a franchise QB, and though he is exciting to watch at the college level, it doesn't mean it will translate.
Bridgewater will be long gone.
That all said, Simms has really impressed me. I don't know why he didn't play much in college, but I doubt it was from a physical aspect. I am guessing it was more of a lack of maturity, and was someone that didn't have to work for anything. His release is as good as anyone I have ever seen, and I like how he moves in the pocket. However, he has made some pretty bad decisions in the limited game time he has seen, so there's that.
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Yeah ! Lets trade up in the draft, thats worked so well for us building a deep roster without holes all over it.
Maybe we can address the rest of our needs by high profile free agency signings and trades ?
When we have $40 million to burn in the offseason we can fill a lot of holes with reasonable contracts, no need to splurge on a major money guy, then we have limited holes and can trade up.
Also if you don't think trading up to get a franchise QB is worth it, I don't know what to tell you. You have to go get your guy at that position, championships are won because of the guy behind center, and it's an incredible rarity otherwise. If we think a guy can do it in. Ny, we have to go get him at all costs, not hope like hell he falls in our lap in the late teens.
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We wouldn't have to trade all of our picks to move up a few spots (four or five slots).
That's not that much separation between Teddy Bridgewater and the four or five other dudes that will be considered first round prospects at the position. In fact, I don't even think Bridgewater is the best prospect at the position.
I agree, but I think in the end each staff will ID one guy as the one they want above the others regardless of the consensus rankings of the staff
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Mike Glennon and Case Keenum may have done enough to keep their jobs next season.
The Rams aren't going to move on from Sam Bradford. He was having a solid year until he got hurt. They've built that team around him, he just has to stay healthy now.
Jacksonville
Oakland
Minnesota
Tennessee (Jake Locker is owed $15M in 2015 and the team has to decide a club option this offseason)
Cleveland
Arizona
These are the six teams that I can see taking a QB high.
I can see Glennon getting a shot to start next season, but if Kubiak is fired Case Keenun is going to he someone else's UDFA to the incoming coaching staff.
As you said, a new coach is going to want his guy and I don't see someone wanting to build an offense around a UDFA QB. Guys like Romo are the exception, not the rule.
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As for the FA list, I wouldn't be upset with McCown or McCoy as placeholders. Mornhinweg's system might be the best place for McCoy in the NFL.
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Mentally tough, smart, non turnover machine, at least average arm. I'll take whichever one best fits that. I don't expect Aaron Rodgers. We don't have the good fortune to get that lucky.
I guess a lot of that is hard to determine until they get to the NFL.
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At least Glennon has shown improvement.
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Glennon has a TD:INT ratio of almost 3:1 and an average passer rating of 87.7. He has definitely shown enough to be worth persisting with.
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Yep, I am cured of the Geno experiment, let him get his head on straight watching from the bench. If there is still a true QB competition and players are held accountable, have him pick out splinters from his behind.
I can't believe I am saying it, but he has to be benched. He is not improving, he is getting worse and worse.
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Mentally tough, smart, non turnover machine, at least average arm. I'll take whichever one best fits that. I don't expect Aaron Rodgers. We don't have the good fortune to get that lucky.
I guess a lot of that is hard to determine until they get to the NFL.
How about we don't shoot for the moon. Wouldn't it be nice to have an average middling QB for a season. I am getting tired of watching the worst QB play in the entire NFL, year in and year out since Rex has gotten here.
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Yep, I am cured of the Geno experiment, let him get his head on straight watching from the bench. If there is still a true QB competition and players are held accountable, have him pick out splinters from his behind.
I can't believe I am saying it, but he has to be benched. He is not improving, he is getting worse and worse.
But what if he puts up amazing games in the next few weeks 4 no reason at all?!
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I don't know enough about these guys.
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But what if he puts up amazing games in the next few weeks 4 no reason at all?!
Per chance do you have the address for the North Pole, I am updating my black book. Badger gave me the Tooth Fairy's and Hymanberg the Easter Bunny.
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How about we don't shoot for the moon. Wouldn't it be nice to have an average middling QB for a season. I am getting tired of watching the worst QB play in the entire NFL, year in and year out since Rex has gotten here.
Or even better, how about we do exactly that? Perhaps instead of saying, "Let's sit tight at our draft position, take the best player available and hope that we find some gem in the second or third round" we would be better off recognising that doing anything other than getting a legitimate blue chip prospect at QB is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, and do whatever it takes to get a pick that will give us that QB.
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Or even better, how about we do exactly that? Perhaps instead of saying, "Let's sit tight at our draft position, take the best player available and hope that we find some gem in the second or third round" we would be better off recognising that doing anything other than getting a legitimate blue chip prospect at QB is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, and do whatever it takes to get a pick that will give us that QB.
I don't think it will happen JE. For the Jets to move up to #1 they are going to have to give up the kitchen sink. The Jets still need Oline help, playmakers at every position, secondary help. There are too many holes to fill and trading up isn't the answer, the Jets have done that every year 2007-2009 and how did that work out for them?
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Or even better, how about we do exactly that? Perhaps instead of saying, "Let's sit tight at our draft position, take the best player available and hope that we find some gem in the second or third round" we would be better off recognising that doing anything other than getting a legitimate blue chip prospect at QB is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, and do whatever it takes to get a pick that will give us that QB.
We don't even know what our draft position is yet. Why not wait to see our starting position work before we commit to selling out the second and third round pick.
This isn't the last year for QB prospects and if Rex is excrement-canned at the end of the year the offense will go into a legitimate rebuilding mode where they actually rebuild the offense instead of throwing more patch work over it. I'd still be worried about bringing a blue-chip prospect to this team because without the second and third round pick that prospect is still going to have jack excrement to work with. Let's make sure the soil can support the crop before we mortgage the farm. The only reason to act with urgency from the FO would be if Rex is still here in 2014.
Or the new guy could just say "Get me my prospect and a veteran to take the hits while the one I actually want sits for year." Either or.
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Jets shouldn't settle for the first overall pick, what's that going to do for us? We should trade our entire draft for LaRon Landry.
Do you think the Colts will take it? Or should we throw in 2015 picks too?
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I don't think it will happen JE. For the Jets to move up to #1 they are going to have to give up the kitchen sink. The Jets still need Oline help, playmakers at every position, secondary help. There are too many holes to fill and trading up isn't the answer, the Jets have done that every year 2007-2009 and how did that work out for them?
I didn't say #1. In fact, as has been discussed many times, no-one remembers the last time there was a better draft to get an elite QB prospect without having the #1 overall pick. We may have to trade up some, but if we do then so be it. We have cap space and picks; there is no hole more important than the one behind center.
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At this point, I don't see why Simms won't be given every chance to prove he's not a turnover machine. Turnovers kill games, and I fail to see Geno developing into a "safe" quarterback.
Judging from what we've seen of Idzik so far, I think he'll go QB in round 1 if he thinks there's a franchise QB available when the Jets pick comes up, but I don't think he'll move up.
I'm inclined to believe, if we get to the playoffs, Geno/Simms will get another year to prove themselves and we focus on building the rest of the roster. And if we don't get to the playoffs, we'll bring in a veteran and a rookie in the offseason, and depending on how hard we crash, Idzik might also overhaul the coaching staff.
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I'd still be worried about bringing a blue-chip prospect to this team because without the second and third round pick that prospect is still going to have jack excrement to work with. Let's make sure the soil can support the crop before we mortgage the farm.
I agree with this. I'd like to see Idzik build a more complete foundation for the offense before we swing for the fences.
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I didn't say #1. In fact, as has been discussed many times, no-one remembers the last time there was a better draft to get an elite QB prospect without having the #1 overall pick. We may have to trade up some, but if we do then so be it. We have cap space and picks; there is no hole more important than the one behind center.
We don't need to trade up.
there should be enough QB talent in this draft that a decent QB prospect should fall into our laps.
Just like Puck alluded to, there are other glaring holes to address....trading away picks to move up isn't a smart move for this franchise, given the current state they're in.
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Just for sake of argument, here's the current draft selection order if the 2014 draft were to happen tomorrow.
http://overthecap.com/nfl-draft-selection-tracker/
the Jets pick 17th.
Obviously, not every QB is going to declare for the draft in 2014. But i still feel confident enough an above-average QB prospect will be available in the top 20 for us.
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I didn't say #1. In fact, as has been discussed many times, no-one remembers the last time there was a better draft to get an elite QB prospect without having the #1 overall pick. We may have to trade up some, but if we do then so be it. We have cap space and picks; there is no hole more important than the one behind center.
I agree the Jets need a QB and it's the most important position. That said any QB is going to be set up to fail, until some other area's are addressed. I firmly believe if another coach comes, in this defense will take a hit and coupled with the dearth of playmakers on offense the Jets are potentially as bad as Jacksonville the following year. I guess I would wait to see how the season plays out because the Jets might be picking 13-18 area and the Jets will require good luck getting a top QB prospect there with so many teams with that very same need, potentially picking in front of the Jets.
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Just for sake of argument, here's the current draft selection order if the 2014 draft were to happen tomorrow.
http://overthecap.com/nfl-draft-selection-tracker/
the Jets pick 17th.
Obviously, not every QB is going to declare for the draft in 2014. But i still feel confident enough an above-average QB prospect will be available in the top 20 for us.
I don't know there are probably at least 5 teams with QB needs and you never know some other goofball team may pick one just because.
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If Rex is back and on a short leash, how can anyone seriously think he'd roll with yet another rookie quarterback. I think it's incredibly unlikely that Rex comes back AND we draft a QB early.
If we do bad enough to get Rex fired, then I think these QB wet dreams are more plausible. But right now I think it's very unlikely Jets draft a QB
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I don't know there are probably at least 5 teams with QB needs and you never know some other goofball team may pick one just because.
That happens.
Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of trading up into the top 10. The rest of our roster depth will suffer. Although, i'm not too worried...Idzik doesn't strike me as the type to work the board as much as Tanny did.
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That happens.
Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of trading up into the top 10. The rest of our roster depth will suffer. Although, i'm not too worried...Idzik doesn't strike me as the type to work the board as much as Tanny did.
Yes, I agree but this team is teetering on the edge in several respects. For instance, Rex getting dumped will set the franchise back at least a year, as will a wholesale trade of the 2014 draft to get that top notch QB prospect. However, that doesn't mean 1 or the other isnt a viable option when all is said and done.
There's a very weird dynamic with this team right now. It's rebuilding for sure but it can potentially still have a bunch more housecleaning as well. I guess that's how it goes with a team that is young, has so many flaws/holes, and is so consistently inconsistent. I am completely confused on a weekly basis.
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I agree with this. I'd like to see Idzik build a more complete foundation for the offense before we swing for the fences.
As I said, if that's if they're looking to draft a guy to start in 2014. If they bring in a stop-gap to start ahead of the rookie, they can afford to pay now provided they can still use the next season to build. But there has to be someone there with experience to help out the new starter in 2015. A WR, TE, HB not currently on the roster, someone.
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If Holmes will take a sensible deal, I'd be happy to keep him.
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On Derek Carr, how do you compare him to David Carr? And if you see Derek as a better prospect, do you think David's play is underrating Derek at all?
As people, they are very similar - so that's intangibles. Leadership, character, poise, charisma...I do think that Derek is a little more driven, there was a chip on his shoulder. He came in and shattered every record that school had at the quarterback position, and most of them were held for a decade by his older brother.
David was a better athlete than people remember, because he got absolutely destroyed at Houston. He had toughness and solid speed (4.7s). Really smooth in the pocket at Fresno. He was an outstanding prospect, he just got beat to excrement and it ruined him. Watching him as a rookie, he showed a lot of flashes. And in '04 and '05, he wasn't awful.
With all of that said, Derek is bigger, faster, and stronger. He supposedly runs in the 4.5s, but that staff refuses to install designed runs for him because if he goes down, their season is over. His arm is arguably the strongest in the country. Mettenberger might have him there, but it's close. His accuracy and placement is elite. So, he's an elite passer in both of the key spots (arm strength and accuracy).
What sets him apart from his older brother is his knowledge of the game and the offense that he's in. He's Peyton Manning-like out there for Fresno. He will make multiple checks and adjustments at the OL - he's responsible for most routes after seeing the coverage. The OC just puts him in a look, and Carr identifies the coverage and weakness.
His line has been trash for his entire career, and he's still put up absolutely ridiculous numbers. If you watch them, you'll see a ton of designed smoke screens. That's there way of backing off the rush early.
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If Holmes will take a sensible deal, I'd be happy to keep him.
He needs to go. We shouldn't want him around a developing roster.
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I don't know there are probably at least 5 teams with QB needs and you never know some other goofball team may pick one just because.
And there's at least 7 or 8 prospects in this draft (even with some of them not declaring) that are far better prospects than Geno Smith was in 2013's draft.
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I would love it if Blake Bortles or Bryce Petty (Have watched quite a bit of Baylor this year) come out this year. Bryce Petty plays for a run first offense by design, but winds up being very pass happy (They take a lot of snaps per game). Baylor is a run first team though.
What? No.
It's Art Briles.
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As people, they are very similar - so that's intangibles. Leadership, character, poise, charisma...I do think that Derek is a little more driven, there was a chip on his shoulder. He came in and shattered every record that school had at the quarterback position, and most of them were held for a decade by his older brother.
David was a better athlete than people remember, because he got absolutely destroyed at Houston. He had toughness and solid speed (4.7s). Really smooth in the pocket at Fresno. He was an outstanding prospect, he just got beat to excrement and it ruined him. Watching him as a rookie, he showed a lot of flashes. And in '04 and '05, he wasn't awful.
With all of that said, Derek is bigger, faster, and stronger. He supposedly runs in the 4.5s, but that staff refuses to install designed runs for him because if he goes down, their season is over. His arm is arguably the strongest in the country. Mettenberger might have him there, but it's close. His accuracy and placement is elite. So, he's an elite passer in both of the key spots (arm strength and accuracy).
What sets him apart from his older brother is his knowledge of the game and the offense that he's in. He's Peyton Manning-like out there for Fresno. He will make multiple checks and adjustments at the OL - he's responsible for most routes after seeing the coverage. The OC just puts him in a look, and Carr identifies the coverage and weakness.
His line has been trash for his entire career, and he's still put up absolutely ridiculous numbers. If you watch them, you'll see a ton of designed smoke screens. That's there way of backing off the rush early.
So it seems like you're saying Derek is a prospect in every way.
If that's the case, why isn't he projected to go higher like his brother?
Is it because it's a stronger draft than in 2002, or is there just a stigma attached to the Carr name in the NFL?
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So it seems like you're saying Derek is a prospect in every way.
If that's the case, why isn't he projected to go higher like his brother?
Is it because it's a stronger draft than in 2002, or is there just a stigma attached to the Carr name in the NFL?
He's being projected as a first rounder by actual NFL scouts. I expect him to rise during the Senior Bowl and the Combine.
The only QBs David had to compete with in 2002 were Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, and Josh McCown.
Derek is up against a much better, much deeper class. He's still arguably a top three player in this class though.
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And there's at least 7 or 8 prospects in this draft (even with some of them not declaring) that are far better prospects than Geno Smith was in 2013's draft.
Then the Jets should not have to trade up to get real competition for Geno. Honestly, I almost at the point of having seen enough. Geno's improvement needs to be meteoric for him to have a sustainable career as a starting QB. I just don't know if is capable of improving to such an extent. I don't mean to give up on a young QB but wow after the bye week he should have shown some improvement.
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Then the Jets should not have to trade up to get real competition for Geno. Honestly, I almost at the point of having seen enough. Geno's improvement needs to be meteoric for him to have a sustainable career as a starting QB. I just don't know if is capable of improving to such an extent. I don't mean to give up on a young QB but wow after the bye week he should have shown some improvement.
It has to be a relatively showy type of move in order to completely move on.
Using a first rounder to unseat a second rounder is enough in my opinion, but Woody Johnson may try to get an elite prospect.
I hate the idea of trading up, but it makes a lot of sense because the position has been this franchise's downfall for such a long time.
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It has to be a relatively showy type of move in order to completely move on.
Using a first rounder to unseat a second rounder is enough in my opinion, but Woody Johnson may try to get an elite prospect.
I hate the idea of trading up, but it makes a lot of sense because the position has been this franchise's downfall for such a long time.
It's difficult to trust the Jets to get a future franchise guy, they haven't since, 1965. That's why I am so leery of trading up. I know I am being a little dramatic but still this franchise is due. Geno Smith is no franchise QB, please nobody throw Peyton's rookie year at me, Geno is nothing like him.
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It's difficult to trust the Jets to get a future franchise guy, they haven't since, 1965. That's why I am so leery of trading up. I know I am being a little dramatic but still this franchise is due. Geno Smith is no franchise QB, please nobody throw Peyton's rookie year at me, Geno is nothing like him.
I think O'Brien and Pennington (not going to get into Sanchez now) had all the potential to be franchise guys when they were drafted, but they were both derailed for various reasons.
So while it's still difficult to find your franchise QB, it's apparently been even harder to develop him.
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It's difficult to trust the Jets to get a future franchise guy, they haven't since, 1965. That's why I am so leery of trading up. I know I am being a little dramatic but still this franchise is due. Geno Smith is no franchise QB, please nobody throw Peyton's rookie year at me, Geno is nothing like him.
A few of us have been saying it since the Jets drafted Smith, this team isn't tied to him longterm at all. He was a second round draft choice.
Kevin Kolb, Jimmy Clausen, Tarvaris Jackson, Pat White, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne, John Beck, Drew Stanton, and Kellen Clemens
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A few of us have been saying it since the Jets drafted Smith, this team isn't tied to him longterm at all. He was a second round draft choice.
Kevin Kolb, Jimmy Clausen, Tarvaris Jackson, Pat White, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne, John Beck, Drew Stanton, and Kellen Clemens
And as true as that was before, it's even more true with the rookie cap.
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I said weeks ago Geno reminded me of Sanchez. He has the same propensity to look down his recevier, throw to the wrong jersey, take zero care of the football in his hands, over/underthrow his targets, and make utterly awful decisions.
We need to draft a QB. Period. Tom Brady is proving this year that an elite QB can win you games no matter how many or how big your holes are.
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I don't know there are probably at least 5 teams with QB needs and you never know some other goofball team may pick one just because.
I've been trying to figure out the most likely QB drafters. So far I have the easy ones: Jags, Cards, Texans, Vikings and Cleveland. I think the Raiders may be happy with Pryor. And the 5 teams I named, at least right now, look to be header for better draft positions than we are.
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I've been trying to figure out the most likely QB drafters. So far I have the easy ones: Jags, Cards, Texans, Vikings and Cleveland. I think the Raiders may be happy with Pryor. And the 5 teams I named, at least right now, look to be header for better draft positions than we are.
The Raiders are most definitely not happy with Terrelle Pryor.
Matt McGloin might be their starter now.
That competition is wide open.
I can see the Jets being tied with or worse than Oakland and Cleveland.
Arizona is one of the most underrated teams in football right now and Carson Palmer is playing well.
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As people, they are very similar - so that's intangibles. Leadership, character, poise, charisma...I do think that Derek is a little more driven, there was a chip on his shoulder. He came in and shattered every record that school had at the quarterback position, and most of them were held for a decade by his older brother.
David was a better athlete than people remember, because he got absolutely destroyed at Houston. He had toughness and solid speed (4.7s). Really smooth in the pocket at Fresno. He was an outstanding prospect, he just got beat to excrement and it ruined him. Watching him as a rookie, he showed a lot of flashes. And in '04 and '05, he wasn't awful.
With all of that said, Derek is bigger, faster, and stronger. He supposedly runs in the 4.5s, but that staff refuses to install designed runs for him because if he goes down, their season is over. His arm is arguably the strongest in the country. Mettenberger might have him there, but it's close. His accuracy and placement is elite. So, he's an elite passer in both of the key spots (arm strength and accuracy).
What sets him apart from his older brother is his knowledge of the game and the offense that he's in. He's Peyton Manning-like out there for Fresno. He will make multiple checks and adjustments at the OL - he's responsible for most routes after seeing the coverage. The OC just puts him in a look, and Carr identifies the coverage and weakness.
His line has been trash for his entire career, and he's still put up absolutely ridiculous numbers. If you watch them, you'll see a ton of designed smoke screens. That's there way of backing off the rush early.
I like this kid. With this kind of analysis though, I'm guessing he likely wont be around mid-first. Does that seem accurate?
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I like this kid. With this kind of analysis though, I'm guessing he likely wont be around mid-first. Does that seem accurate?
Carr can go anywhere from top five to top twenty.
He has some unfinished business left to take care of.
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I think it's in the best interest of this franchise to move on from Rex Ryan if this team finishes under .500.
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The Raiders are most definitely not happy with Terrelle Pryor.
Matt McGloin might be their starter now.
That competition is wide open.
I can see the Jets being tied with or worse than Oakland and Cleveland.
Arizona is one of the most underrated teams in football right now and Carson Palmer is playing well.
So would you add the Raiders to the list of other teams that may take a QB in the first?
And I know this is wildly speculative, but given where we're at right now and where we're likely to draft, which QB prospoects are you most excited to see come to the Jets (Like you've said earlier, Bridgewater seems very unlikely because whoever had the 1st is likely taking him)?
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I think it's in the best interest of this franchise to move on from Rex Ryan if this team finishes under .500.
If we finish under .500 I think Rex is out and we overhaul this offense starting from the QB position.
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I think it's in the best interest of this franchise to move on from Rex Ryan if this team finishes under .500.
At the beginning of the season, I would have said 7-9 was the bare minimum Rex needed to keep his job, but after being 5-4, finishing 7-9 would be pretty shitty. Funny how things work.
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I think it's in the best interest of this franchise to move on from Rex Ryan if this team finishes under .500.
I am on the fence with Rex, you can't fire him just because. The Jets need a viable option, turnover for turnover sake is not a winning formula. Yes I am pulling the Bill Cowher card here he had a 7-9 season followed by a 6-10 season. That organization didn't panic.
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At the beginning of the season, I would have said 7-9 was the bare minimum Rex needed to keep his job, but after being 5-4, finishing 7-9 would be pretty shitty. Funny how things work.
I said that during the bye week. Rex is now a victim of his own success.
Personally, as long as this team ends .500 Rex should stay.
As for QB, we should absolutely trade up for one if the opportunity to do so presents itself (meaning it's not a Ditka-style trade). We have no idea what kind of receiver talent we actually have and this week sealed that for me.
Forget Holmes, Hill can't get a ball thrown in his zip code. We all believe Kerley to be talented. Cumberland has shown flashes and if he's for real, he's a mismatch player. Given the money we'll free up letting Holmes' useless derriere go, we can sign one more receiver to play. Also, I still like Nelson and I'd like to see him get more chances.
I am firmly convinced that if we solve the QB problem that this is a true contending team. Draft one on day one.
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At the beginning of the season, I would have said 7-9 was the bare minimum Rex needed to keep his job, but after being 5-4, finishing 7-9 would be pretty shitty. Funny how things work.
That's why all the people attaching a record to whether he stays or not was retarded.
Even now, saying "he needs to be 8-8 or better to keep his job" is stupid.
It completely depends on how the season plays out. There is no set over/under number.
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I think it's in the best interest of this franchise to move on from Rex Ryan if this team finishes under .500.
Agreed. He's a great DC but he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes as a HC.
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I'd rather keep him and his defensive prowess and give him a real QB for the first time in his life
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I don't see why "exactly how bad will Geno Smith or god willing, Matt Simms suck over the next 6 games" is a barometer for why Rex should stay or go
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This notion of Rex being a great DC but a poor HC is pure bullshit. Someone please tell me a modern coach that was a great coordinator of one side of the ball that somehow became a great insightful HC for both sides. Please point out one and let me shoot that name down. There isn't one and to take it a step further, all the great coordinators of one side that became successful HC's had an above average coordinator help them out on the side they were less familiar.
Edit: You're either a good head coach or not, it has nothing to do with your prowess on one side of the ball.
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That's why all the people attaching a record to whether he stays or not was retarded.
Even now, saying "he needs to be 8-8 or better to keep his job" is stupid.
It completely depends on how the season plays out. There is no set over/under number.
It's pretty stupid if you think he will, or even deserves, to keep his job if this team ends under .500. Even before the season started .500 was the clear target number to keep him off the hotseat.
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It's pretty stupid if you think he will, or even deserves, to keep his job if this team ends under .500. Even before the season started .500 was the clear target number to keep him off the hotseat.
It's not stupid. Cowher's Steelers followed up a 7-9 season with a 6-10 one. He kept his job. They stayed the course and got him a franchise QB.
Again, simply firing Rex because of record is dumb. The Jets need a viable candidate, firing him because of an arbitrary # is dumb. That said, the horrid losses, dumb penalties, coaching miscues are grounds for termination should they continue.
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^ the Steelers don't fire
anybody. head coaches.
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^ the Steelers don't fire anybody. head coaches.
Maybe they're onto something?
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So would you add the Raiders to the list of other teams that may take a QB in the first?
I don't think the Raiders will take a quarterback in the first round, but it's a possibility.
And I know this is wildly speculative, but given where we're at right now and where we're likely to draft, which QB prospoects are you most excited to see come to the Jets (Like you've said earlier, Bridgewater seems very unlikely because whoever had the 1st is likely taking him)?
Derek Carr
AJ McCarron
Johnny Manziel
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I don't think the Raiders will take a quarterback in the first round, but it's a possibility.
Derek Carr
AJ McCarron
Johnny Manziel
Which one possess's an NFL arm? Can you rank them in order of arm and then accuracy.
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I don't see why "exactly how bad will Geno Smith or god willing, Matt Simms suck over the next 6 games" is a barometer for why Rex should stay or go
It's not, in my opinion.
The offense as a whole continues to suck on Rex Ryan. This team has a certain identity under him, and it's just not working.
I think they tried to speed up the rebuild a little too soon this past offseason and it's looking like things are still disassembled.
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Which one possess's an NFL arm? Can you rank them in order of arm and then accuracy.
AJ McCarron doesn't have an elite arm, but he's protects the football and makes better decisions than just about anybody I've ever seen at the college level.
Johnny Manziel has a gun, and he's really able to create on broken plays. His accuracy on the move is crazy good, but he makes a lot of questionable decisions with the gunslinger mentality.
Derek Carr, like I said earlier in this thread, has arguably the strongest arm in this draft class besides maybe LSU's Zach Mettenberger. His accuracy/placement is elite.
So if I'm ranking just arm strength, it's Carr, Manziel, McCarron.
Accuracy: Carr, McCarron, Manziel
If most of f the pieces are in place, I'd take McCarron.
If you're building around a player, it's Carr. As much as I like Manziel, he's going to rub a lot of veterans the wrong way. Carr is head and shoulders above everyone but McCarron when it comes to intangibles. I think mechanically, Manziel is a heck of a lot better than people give him credit for and he works at the craft.
Just a great year to get a young QB. I'm a fan of most of the top prospects except for Tajh Boyd and Marcus Mariota.
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AJ McCarron doesn't have an elite arm, but he's protects the football and makes better decisions than just about anybody I've ever seen at the college level.
Johnny Manziel has a gun, and he's really able to create on broken plays. His accuracy on the move is crazy good, but he makes a lot of questionable decisions with the gunslinger mentality.
Derek Carr, like I said earlier in this thread, has arguably the strongest arm in this draft class besides maybe LSU's Zach Mettenberger. His accuracy/placement is elite.
So if I'm ranking just arm strength, it's Carr, Manziel, McCarron.
Accuracy: Carr, McCarron, Manziel
If most of f the pieces are in place, I'd take McCarron.
If you're building around a player, it's Carr. As much as I like Manziel, he's going to rub a lot of veterans the wrong way. Carr is head and shoulders above everyone but McCarron when it comes to intangibles. I think mechanically, Manziel is a heck of a lot better than people give him credit for and he works at the craft.
Just a great year to get a young QB. I'm a fan of most of the top prospects except for Tajh Boyd and Marcus Mariota.
Funny, I've fallen out of love with Boyd this year (as I'm sure many have) and although I can't articulate why, I'm not a big Mariota fan. You've now made me REALLY want Carr after this!!!!
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Funny, I've fallen out of love with Boyd this year (as I'm sure many have) and although I can't articulate why, I'm not a big Mariota fan. You've now made me REALLY want Carr after this!!!!
Tajh Boyd is a product of Chad Morris' offensive genius.
I don't see the serial killer, ice cold mentality in Marcus Mariota. He's a 'take-off if it isn't there' type of quarterback right now, and that isn't going to work in the NFL. If you hit him in the mouth, he caves.
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I said weeks ago Geno reminded me of Sanchez. He has the same propensity to look down his recevier, throw to the wrong jersey, take zero care of the football in his hands, over/underthrow his targets, and make utterly awful decisions.
We need to draft a QB. Period. Tom Brady is proving this year that an elite QB can win you games no matter how many or how big your holes are.
I definitely got the Sanchez feel out of this kid. I will point out that I'm still glad that Sanchez was injured. We'd have to repeat this entire process over again with Geno next season. At least now we know that we absolutely must draft a franchise QB.
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Go to 4:15 and watch the block:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNmGSjaPCWI
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I definitely got the Sanchez feel out of this kid. I will point out that I'm still glad that Sanchez was injured. We'd have to repeat this entire process over again with Geno next season. At least now we know that we absolutely must draft a franchise QB.
If Sanchez started this year they would have taken a QB in 2014 anyway with a new head coach.
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AJ McCarron doesn't have an elite arm, but he's protects the football and makes better decisions than just about anybody I've ever seen at the college level.
Johnny Manziel has a gun, and he's really able to create on broken plays. His accuracy on the move is crazy good, but he makes a lot of questionable decisions with the gunslinger mentality.
Derek Carr, like I said earlier in this thread, has arguably the strongest arm in this draft class besides maybe LSU's Zach Mettenberger. His accuracy/placement is elite.
So if I'm ranking just arm strength, it's Carr, Manziel, McCarron.
Accuracy: Carr, McCarron, Manziel
If most of f the pieces are in place, I'd take McCarron.
If you're building around a player, it's Carr. As much as I like Manziel, he's going to rub a lot of veterans the wrong way. Carr is head and shoulders above everyone but McCarron when it comes to intangibles. I think mechanically, Manziel is a heck of a lot better than people give him credit for and he works at the craft.
Just a great year to get a young QB. I'm a fan of most of the top prospects except for Tajh Boyd and Marcus Mariota.
Thank you based on those observations my order of preference would be Carr- McCarron - Manziel.
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I haven't seen much of Carr so I'm not in a great position to judge, but after the last few seasons of watching the mental disintegration of quarterbacks apparently unable to keep their heads when NFL defenses start bringing the noise, I'll trade a huge arm for an elite brain.
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If Sanchez started this year they would have taken a QB in 2014 anyway with a new head coach.
Wait, didn't you say that Sanchez would have given us the best chance to make the playoffs?
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I haven't seen much of Carr so I'm not in a great position to judge, but after the last few seasons of watching the mental disintegration of quarterbacks apparently unable to keep their heads when NFL defenses start bringing the noise, I'll trade a huge arm for an elite brain.
It's funny because neither Sanchez or Smith had an elite arm.
Carr has both an elite arm and an elite football mind...the only things hurting him are unconventional footwork and level of competition.
I want an all-around elite player at the position. Not some system quarterback with questionable measurables.
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Are we so sure that Jacksonville will be looking to draft a QB?
https://twitter.com/NFLONFOX/status/402525889327403008/photo/1
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It's funny because neither Sanchez or Smith had an elite arm.
Carr has both an elite arm and an elite football mind...the only things hurting him are unconventional footwork and level of competition.
Yeah - I don't watch any college football, but from that highlight reel that you linked to I was going to say that it's crazy how much arm strength he gets even when his feet look totally unbalanced. Do you see the weird footwork being coached away or leading to negative/inaccurate plays this year?
I would love to have a QB with an arm like that, though, just casually being able to zip the ball into tight spots.
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Yeah - I don't watch any college football, but from that highlight reel that you linked to I was going to say that it's crazy how much arm strength he gets even when his feet look totally unbalanced. Do you see the weird footwork being coached away or leading to negative/inaccurate plays this year?
I would love to have a QB with an arm like that, though, just casually being able to zip the ball into tight spots.
Fresno runs a lot of no step drops - Carr will just get the snap and sling it. That's designed.
Their offensive line has been awful for his entire career (I'm talking multiple walk-on, undersized true freshman trying to block for him) and he rarely gets sacked because of his preparation, escapability, release speed. The release that he has is one of the quickest that I've ever seen.
He's had to make a lot of plays with his arm because the shaky protection doesn't allow him to set his feet or make his drops. In the past, instead of evading and resetting, he'll just rely simply on arm talent...and it usually gets the job done.
As this season's gone on, he's done a great job of escaping pressure, resetting his feet, and making throws.
He plays a lot like Brett Favre and Jay Cutler, but he's not as reckless. He believes he can make every throw.
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It's not stupid. Cowher's Steelers followed up a 7-9 season with a 6-10 one. He kept his job. They stayed the course and got him a franchise QB.
Again, simply firing Rex because of record is dumb. The Jets need a viable candidate, firing him because of an arbitrary # is dumb. That said, the horrid losses, dumb penalties, coaching miscues are grounds for termination should they continue.
If this team ends under .500 it is because of a massive meltdown. The schedule at this point is too "easy" to not get those 3 more wins, which makes yesterday all the more painful.
.500 was a legitimate target coming into the year because he was a lame duck coach with a GM everyone assumed was just biding his time until he could bring in his guy.
And honestly, the only reason I posted was because it disgusts me when someone posts that another person's opinion is "stupid." Thinking someone is wrong doesn't make them stupid.
I definitely got the Sanchez feel out of this kid. I will point out that I'm still glad that Sanchez was injured. We'd have to repeat this entire process over again with Geno next season. At least now we know that we absolutely must draft a franchise QB.
The interesting thing is, Sanchez may have kept this team in it longer and with the year of learning on the bench, Geno may have been a better QB next year. At the very worst, if Sanchez had performed in his previous form, Geno would still only be taking over around now (probably this past week) and would have had some time to learn before being thrown to the wolves.
That injury stunted the potential of this team more than is given credit.
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I think I've found our new right guard to replace Colon, should be able to pick him up as a UDFA and shows a lot of promise as a hole-punching tailback for goalline plays. Would be a bit worried about the number of penalties he'd likely pick up though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1dJeMtb08
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^ That newscaster is such a queynte. "he's attacking her!!!"
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Cut everyone.
Fire everyone.
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Cut everyone.
Fire everyone.
Bench the starting quarterback.
Potentially fire everyone.
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Fresno runs a lot of no step drops - Carr will just get the snap and sling it. That's designed.
Their offensive line has been awful for his entire career (I'm talking multiple walk-on, undersized true freshman trying to block for him) and he rarely gets sacked because of his preparation, escapability, release speed. The release that he has is one of the quickest that I've ever seen.
He's had to make a lot of plays with his arm because the shaky protection doesn't allow him to set his feet or make his drops. In the past, instead of evading and resetting, he'll just rely simply on arm talent...and it usually gets the job done.
As this season's gone on, he's done a great job of escaping pressure, resetting his feet, and making throws.
He plays a lot like Brett Favre and Jay Cutler, but he's not as reckless. He believes he can make every throw.
I like the bolded more than anything, that gives me a chubby. Now it's up to you to have this cat around when the Jets pick, if not you're useless, well ok more useless than normal.
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I like the bolded more than anything, that gives me a chubby. Now it's up to you to have this cat around when the Jets pick, if not you're useless, well ok more useless than normal.
Better start spreading rumors that Carr is a bully.
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Better start spreading rumors that Carr is a bully.
Let's do it, if only we have someone that has an inside to Fresno's shower and locker room, watesekond eye no sumone.....
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SethWalderNYDN: Concerned time is running out to prove you can be a franchise QB? Geno: "I haven’t seen a timer on that, so no I don’t have any concerns."
...it's ticking, homie.
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Let's do it, if only we have someone that has an inside to Fresno's shower and locker room, watesekond eye no sumone.....
If only we had someone who has a spy cam in Ryan Mathews' old locker..
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If only we had someone who has a spy cam in Ryan Mathews' old locker..
He's watched that tape more than Pulp Fiction.
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SethWalderNYDN: Concerned time is running out to prove you can be a franchise QB? Geno: "I haven’t seen a timer on that, so no I don’t have any concerns."
...it's ticking, homie.
freak. That's a Sanchez answer.
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freak. That's a Sanchez answer.
Tell me how he is supposed to answer that question.
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Tell me how he is supposed to answer that question.
I just want to know how it's "Sanchez" answer...
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I just want to know how it's "Sanchez" answer...
No he visto un temporizador en eso, así que no, yo no tengo ninguna preocupación. (http://v8.en.memegenerator.co/instance/9320555)
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Fresno runs a lot of no step drops - Carr will just get the snap and sling it. That's designed.
Their offensive line has been awful for his entire career (I'm talking multiple walk-on, undersized true freshman trying to block for him) and he rarely gets sacked because of his preparation, escapability, release speed. The release that he has is one of the quickest that I've ever seen.
He's had to make a lot of plays with his arm because the shaky protection doesn't allow him to set his feet or make his drops. In the past, instead of evading and resetting, he'll just rely simply on arm talent...and it usually gets the job done.
As this season's gone on, he's done a great job of escaping pressure, resetting his feet, and making throws.
He plays a lot like Brett Favre and Jay Cutler, but he's not as reckless. He believes he can make every throw.
Man, here you go, raising my expectations of some college kid before this season's even close to being over.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrBOOuvosTk
"we got Jesus playing quarterback here"
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He needs to go. We shouldn't want him around a developing roster.
I also can't think of one reason why Holmes would want to take a reasonable deal to be here.
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So to piggy back off he Carr thing, how good is his NFL footwork if he doesn't routinely use 3,5,7 step drops since he's trying to save his own life back there?
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I also can't think of one reason why Holmes would want to take a reasonable deal to be here.
Team trips to Dave and Buster's?
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So to piggy back off he Carr thing, how good is his NFL footwork if he doesn't routinely use 3,5,7 step drops since he's trying to save his own life back there?
The only guys that are using 5 and 7 step drops that will be considered in the first round are AJ McCarron and Teddy Bridgewater.
All of the other guys play in variations of the spread.
As a first year starter, Carr played in a pro-style offense, so he's done these things. He threw 26 TDs and 9 INTs, while completing 62% of this passes playing in that conventional offense.
Crosses and drops are so easily taught that I really think the knocks on footwork are a little overblown. It's just repetition.
It's much different than having a mechanical flaw like a slow release.
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SethWalderNYDN: Concerned time is running out to prove you can be a franchise QB? Geno: "I haven’t seen a timer on that, so no I don’t have any concerns."
...it's ticking, homie.
Why would he? There's no accountability for our QB's.
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I also can't think of one reason why Holmes would want to take a reasonable deal to be here.
Because no-one else is going to offer him much of a deal with his injury and attitude history. At least we know him and vice versa.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not wed to him. I just think he has something to offer us if he wants to stay.
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When Holmes decides to not be a douchebag, he's a pretty nice asset to any offense.
I think it'd be hard to turn him away if he tested the free agent market and couldn't really find a better deal then we could offer him.
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When Holmes decides to not be a douchebag
Not sure if that's possible
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I guess its more like his level of douchebag fluctuates.
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Cut ties, start fresh.
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I wish Clarence BEEFTANK was our QB.
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I wish Clarence BEEFTANK was our QB.
haha the gif of him stumbling is funny as hell
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I wish Clarence BEEFTANK was our QB.
It would give the Jets the best running game in the league.
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So Geno has more turnovers through 10 games than Sanchez ever had in 10.
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So Geno has more turnovers through 10 games than Sanchez ever had in 10.
Smith's also leading the league in turnovers.
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Smith's also leading the league in turnovers.
...we're number 1!
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Smith's also leading the league in turnovers.
Fans upset over turnover-prone quarterback, so the FO drafts an even more turnover prone quarterback.
Wonderful.
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Fans upset over turnover-prone quarterback, so the FO drafts an even more turnover prone quarterback.
Wonderful.
To be fair to both Sanchez and Smith, they both took pretty good care of the football in college.
Smith benefited from a passer-friendly scheme that required him to make close to no adjustments or multiple reads. That's where his problems are showing up in the NFL. The ball is coming out late, and when his initial target is blanketed, his timing gets thrown off even more.
Could it be chemistry with the receivers? Definitely, but I think it has more to do with his inability or inexperience reading complex coverages and schemes.
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I agree with Tommy on the "Sanchez answer" comment. Basically, it points back to how Sanchez never seemed to believe he was regressing and always firmly believed that if he continued doing what he was doing everything would work out. That's exactly how Geno sounds.
It's scary how much Geno reminds me of Sanchez.
Holmes has to go. He claimed he caught everything thrown his way this week. He had what, 2 catches in 6 targets? Sorry Tone, your math isn't very good.
And Heismanberg is killing me thinking about this Carr kid. If he's as good as he says the SOJF in me says there's no way the Jets get him.
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In losses: 85 of 156 (54%) with 1 TD and 12 INTs - 6 fumbles (3 lost) - 15 total turnovers in 5 losses
In wins: 81 of 139 (58%) with 7 TDs and 4 INTs - 2 fumbles (1 lost) - 5 total turnovers in 5 wins
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It's scary how much Geno reminds me of Sanchez.
I see much more Brandon Weeden in Smith than any other quarterback. It's not a coincidence that they played for the same QB coach in college.
Weeden took better care of the football as a rookie.
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I agree with Tommy on the "Sanchez answer" comment. Basically, it points back to how Sanchez never seemed to believe he was regressing and always firmly believed that if he continued doing what he was doing everything would work out. That's exactly how Geno sounds.
It's scary how much Geno reminds me of Sanchez.
Holmes has to go. He claimed he caught everything thrown his way this week. He had what, 2 catches in 6 targets? Sorry Tone, your math isn't very good.
And Heismanberg is killing me thinking about this Carr kid. If he's as good as he says the SOJF in me says there's no way the Jets get him.
I was waiting for someone more knowledgeable than me to give some intelligent reasoning behind my comment.
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I agree with Tommy on the "Sanchez answer" comment. Basically, it points back to how Sanchez never seemed to believe he was regressing and always firmly believed that if he continued doing what he was doing everything would work out. That's exactly how Geno sounds.
To be fair people were bitching about regression for 4 years nonstop under Sanchez no matter what he was doing on the field. I'd ignore them too.
I don't think he actually regressed until 2012, when he basically repeated his rookie performance.
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How many of those six targets were actually on target?
Because his first reception was on a horribly underthrown ball, and the second one was perfectly thrown.
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I agree with Tommy on the "Sanchez answer" comment. Basically, it points back to how Sanchez never seemed to believe he was regressing and always firmly believed that if he continued doing what he was doing everything would work out. That's exactly how Geno sounds.
You just need to understand that what these guys say to the media doesn't correlate at all to what they're actually probably thinking.
You take media comments too literally and think they hold a lot more weight than they actually do.
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You just need to understand that what these guys say to the media doesn't correlate at all to what they're actually probably thinking.
You take media comments too literally and think they hold a lot more weight than they actually do.
I agree with this.
No quarterback is going to come out and say: "nah, i suck. i know my time is coming to an end."
...and if he did, would you want him on your favorite team?
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To be fair people were bitching about regression for 4 years nonstop under Sanchez no matter what he was doing on the field. I'd ignore them too.
I don't think he actually regressed until 2012, when he basically repeated his rookie performance.
Sanchez never really regressed until 2012, but he never got any better. It's like we had 2009 Sanchez all throughout, which isn't terrible, but you'd like to see some improvement.
Geno hasn't improved at all, and as of now looks worse than Sanchez ever was in his 4 seasons here. I'd welcome a 2009 Sanchez late season run into the playoffs, but that doesn't look likely.
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I am pretty sick of the people making comments to the press worse than they actually are. Anything Rex states publicly is twisted/distorted in such a way that I really believe the media thinks its target audience are fans afflicted with Down's Syndrome.
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Tommy and Alio, since you're calling these "Sanchez answers" tell me what other young struggling qbs say im their postgame pressers.
I'm guessing you don't watch those, and neither do I, but I'm willing to bet these are normal for any young struggling qb trying to say the right thing. Not just Geno and Sanchez.
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Tommy and Alio, since you're calling these "Sanchez answers" tell me what other young struggling qbs say im their postgame pressers.
I'm guessing you don't watch those, and neither do I, but I'm willing to bet these are normal for any young struggling qb trying to say the right thing. Not just Geno and Sanchez.
The Jets are the only team who draft quarterbacks that bust.
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The Jets are the only team who draft quarterbacks that bust.
That's not true, look at Carolina and Cam Newton.
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That's not true, look at Carolina and Cam Newton.
His name is Brad Smith Jr.
I enjoy what Carolina has done at QB, because it balanced out things that I've said...
So horribly wrong about Jimmy Clausen and couldn't have been more right about Cam Newton.
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Sanchez never really regressed until 2012, but he never got any better. It's like we had 2009 Sanchez all throughout, which isn't terrible, but you'd like to see some improvement.
Geno hasn't improved at all, and as of now looks worse than Sanchez ever was in his 4 seasons here. I'd welcome a 2009 Sanchez late season run into the playoffs, but that doesn't look likely.
I agree Tommy. This is freaking depressing isn't it. I remember back when Vinny was coming to an end and we decided to throw Chad in and hope. It took a couple of games and then we all thought we had our guy. I don't see any positive signs to suggest that Geno is making this transition. I guess we have to see this out until the end of the year and then next year-- Quarterback controversy in New York!
Depressing.
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I agree with this.
No quarterback is going to come out and say: "nah, i suck. i know my time is coming to an end."
JETS QB: "I SUCK"
GENO SMITH NOT SURE HE WANTS TO PLAY FOOTBALL ANYMORE
FULL STORY ON PAGE 80
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I see much more Brandon Weeden in Smith than any other quarterback. It's not a coincidence that they played for the same QB coach in college.
Weeden took better care of the football as a rookie.
That fills me with hope. Wait, not hope, what's that suffix I'm looking for? Oh, yeah...lessness.
I was waiting for someone more knowledgeable than me to give some intelligent reasoning behind my comment.
Honestly, I said pretty much the same thing back in September. I was just laughed off at the time for not giving Geno a fair chance (which was reasonably true at that point, though not any less prescient).
To be fair people were bitching about regression for 4 years nonstop under Sanchez no matter what he was doing on the field. I'd ignore them too.
I don't think he actually regressed until 2012, when he basically repeated his rookie performance.
Absolutely. And I'd argue that Geno hasn't "regressed" either. He just hasn't "progressed" and when he speaks he sounds like he doesn't understand that, just like Sanchez.
How many of those six targets were actually on target?
Because his first reception was on a horribly underthrown ball, and the second one was perfectly thrown.
In fairness, I'm not sure. So it's possible that Tone actually meant "I caught everything that was actually thrown to me." Still, I find it harder and harder to give Holmes the benefit of the doubt anymore.
You just need to understand that what these guys say to the media doesn't correlate at all to what they're actually probably thinking.
You take media comments too literally and think they hold a lot more weight than they actually do.
I take what people say at face value until they give me a reason not to.
Like Sanchez, Geno's comments tend to sound like he feels he just needs to continue doing what he's doing and things will eventually balance out. As Sanchez learned, no, they won't. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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Sanchez never really regressed until 2012, but he never got any better. It's like we had 2009 Sanchez all throughout, which isn't terrible, but you'd like to see some improvement.
Regression is impossible without improvement first. He did improve for 3 seasons.
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MoWilk on whether the Jets are a playoff team: "If we keep having mental breakdowns, I don't think right now we are. But I think we're going to get there."
He said we suck! Get rid of him!
See how ridiculous it sounds to straw man that? Those are good comments. They're truthful and they accept things for what they are while still saying "I'm not giving up."
Geno, on whether time is running out to prove he can be a long-term QB: "I haven't seen a timer on that, so no I don't have any concerns."
How does he not have concerns? He also said he doesn't think statistics tell the whole story. I guess the plethora of fumbles and interceptions don't really tell us anything. Nor does his shrinking completion percentage or ludicrously low passer rating. Forget stats, they're useless.
And before people say I'm being unfair, he also mentioned that in the NFL no one's job is safe. He also admitted he had no positives to take from Sunday's game and a lot was on him. Those are better answers. But the ones above? Come on.
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Exactly. Just give me a simple "I have to play better if I'm going to lead the team to the playoffs" or something. Be honest.
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Exactly. Just give me a simple "I have to play better if I'm going to lead the team to the playoffs" or something. Be honest.
Sanchez used to blame himself about everything. Even when his receivers dropped balls or something.
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Jesus you guys are a bunch of nits. Here is what Geno said about his "performance" Sunday against the Bills:
"Just bad, man," Smith said after his second four-turnover game of the season. "The way I can sum this game up for myself is awful. I know I can play better. I know this isn't who I am or who I want to be."
Feck off with this stupidity. He isn't good and he knows it.
Here s the entire article, with quotes from Geno about his play that should assuage you people:
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/31417/jets-lose-because-of-qb-not-arcade-trip (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/31417/jets-lose-because-of-qb-not-arcade-trip)
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Jesus you guys are a bunch of nits. Here is what Geno said about his "performance" Sunday against the Bills:
Feck off with this stupidity. He isn't good and he knows it.
Here s the entire article, with quotes from Geno about his play that should assuage you people:
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/31417/jets-lose-because-of-qb-not-arcade-trip (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/31417/jets-lose-because-of-qb-not-arcade-trip)
So basically Tommy is saying what he wishes Geno would have said after not even listening to him...
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So basically Tommy is saying what he wishes Geno would have said after not even listening to him...
Please edit to include Alio as well.
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feck off
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feck off
I am not tripping the curse meter.
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I am not tripping the curse meter.
shut up, cvnt
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feck off
Sounds like something an angry leprechaun would say.
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I am not tripping the curse meter.
Curse meter?
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Curse meter?
If he types a naughty word with his keyboard, sirens go off and a SWAT team will crash through the windows.
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If he types a naughty word with his keyboard, sirens go off and a SWAT team will crash through the windows.
Ah, makes sense.
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If he types a naughty word with his keyboard, sirens go off and a SWAT team will crash through the windows.
Hahahah my branch manager just told me the head of trading just did the same thing and received a call from the CEO.
So I should type a curse word 50 times and tempt fate? GFY
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Hahahah my branch manager just told me the head of trading just did the same thing and received a call from the CEO.
So I should type a curse word times and tempt fate? GFY
Do they give you a list of words that are off-limits or do you just have to use your judgement?
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Do they give you a list of words that are off-limits or do you just have to use your judgement?
Don't know it's the first time I got actual confirmation. They are pretty liberal here, there are no sites that are blocked but because of all the correspondence we do with custy's, I am sure they have programs that scrub emails looking for fishy items/promises that various sales/traders would be tempted to say .
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The UK Government implemented an email filter a number of years ago that prevented the delivery or sending of any message containing profane language. They had to revisit their settings within a few days of launch after the Member of Parliament for Scunthorpe complained that he could no longer send or receive mail.
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Please edit to include Alio as well.
Except if you actually read my post I specifically called out the parts where he also took on blame. Go back and read all of post 151.
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Except if you actually read my post I specifically called out the parts where he also took on blame. Go back and read all of post 151.
No I will not.
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No I will not.
Fine. Feck you then!
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Fine. Feck you then!
Mwahhhhhhh lol
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Fine. Feck you then!
Da fuq is a Feck?
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Da fuq is a Feck?
I believe it's a type of prosciutto.
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I believe it's a type of prosciutto.
You're thinking of speck.
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You're thinking of speck.
Why do you hate fun? (http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1mv5kt/this_is_brilliantly_evil/ccczwr4)
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Why do you hate fun? (http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1mv5kt/this_is_brilliantly_evil/ccczwr4)
I apologise for my failure to revolve my life around Reddit.
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I don't get it.
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I apologise for my failure to revolve my life around Reddit.
I don't get it.
There was a perfectness to this.
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Rich Cimini may hate Geno Smith more than Cato and I combined, and it's hilarious.
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Rich Cimini may hate Geno Smith more than Cato and I combined, and it's hilarious.
Rich Cimini @RichCimini 35m
Every INT has a story. In that case, Geno Smith has enough material to rival "War & Peace." Film review: #nyj http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/31496/film-review-genos-sad-stories …
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Rich Cimini may hate Geno Smith more than Cato and I combined, and it's hilarious.
In a weird way I enjoy the incredible Geno bashing he puts out there, it's great.
Can't freaking wait until we replace him with a real legit QB. We just need to get lucky one freaking time. Just once with a top QB.
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Jets have been too politically correct about the position. We've had a brotha and a mexican at QB these past few years. It's time to get whitey back there. I don't recall there being an Asian prospect available, although Marcus Mariota is close.
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Jets have been too politically correct about the position. We've had a brotha and a mexican at QB these past few years. It's time to get whitey back there. I don't recall there being an Asian prospect available, although Marcus Mariota is close.
Greg McElroy and Tebow
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Greg McElroy and Tebow
Back to the drawing board
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Jets have been too politically correct about the position. We've had a brotha and a mexican at QB these past few years. It's time to get whitey back there. I don't recall there being an Asian prospect available, although Marcus Mariota is close.
This post was so freaking racist, but I'm not going to lie...
I want us a 6'4 white kid. Oh wait, we have one already. My head is going to explode.
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So horribly wrong about Jimmy Clausen and couldn't have been more right about Cam Newton.
"If Jimmy Clausen isn't a succesful starting QB I will quit my job." - Mel Kiper in 2010
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I saw a tweet this morning (but can't remember who wrote it) that multiple scouts are saying Manziel will be better than Wilson.
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Greg McElroy and Tebow
Where is McElroy? I forget, is he on IR or did we cut him? If we cut him, did he sign elsewhere?
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Where is McElroy? I forget, is he on IR or did we cut him? If we cut him, did he sign elsewhere?
Cincy practice squad.
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Cincy practice squad.
His advanced knowledge allowed the Bengals to beat the Jets. /media
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I saw a tweet this morning (but can't remember who wrote it) that multiple scouts are saying Manziel will be better than Wilson.
Wilson landed in a perfect spot, lets see where Manziel lands before saying that.
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His advanced knowledge allowed the Bengals to beat the Jets. /media
McElroy sent the Jets coupons for Dave & Buster's to sabotage them.
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Cincy practice squad.
Thanks, had no idea. The Bengals must like the Chad Pennington types.
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His advanced knowledge allowed the Bengals to beat the Jets. /media
Haha, that's what did us in.
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So what does Smith have to do with the rest of the season to keep his job?
I had an idea of what I wanted to see for the remainder of the season a few weeks ago, but after his last 5 games he's not going to come anywhere near that.
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I think simply not losing isn't enough. He has to actually win a few games for us down the stretch, if that makes sense.
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Wilson landed in a perfect spot, lets see where Manziel lands before saying that.
I was just relaying that message. I can't give an honest opinion on the kid. I've literally never actually seen him, not even a picture that I can recall.
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I don't think Geno will lose his job this season. I don't think he'll come into 2014 camp as the projected starter though. Either way he'll be back, but without a complete 180 in his play he's going to be the backup to some kid who is currently balls-deep in a coed while skipping Economics class.
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I've literally never actually seen him, not even a picture that I can recall.
(http://i.imgur.com/HCHdyq6.jpg)
(http://aidanfromworcester.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/johnny-manziel-halloween-costume.png)
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So what does Smith have to do with the rest of the season to keep his job?
I had an idea of what I wanted to see for the remainder of the season a few weeks ago, but after his last 5 games he's not going to come anywhere near that.
Pretty simple, not turn the ball over 2 or more times a game. We have seen no evidence he is capable of that over a 2 or more game stretch.
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In today's "amusing moment" I just see red Xs Badger.
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Smith and Sanchez are very similar, but Smith is lacking hugely in one area, winning games in the 4th quarter.
When Sanchez would have his melt downs it was usually early in the game, but when the game was winnable he'd step up in the 4th quarter. I am not seeing that in Geno at all. Maybe if he spends a couple years as a backup in a good system he could be that guy, but for now the answer is NO.
Every time he steps back to throw I get nervous, even worse than with Sanchez. The guy can rifle the ball in there, but 16 completions in the last 2 games? He's just not NFL ready yet.
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In today's "amusing moment" I just see red Xs Badger.
You're missing out. The girl in the 2nd pic is cute as hell.
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In today's "amusing moment" I just see red Xs Badger.
It's two photos you've seen a million different variations of before: "it doesn't matter how much you make yourself look like a complete tit, if you're the quarterback you're still going home with the hottest chick in the house".
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The broad in the 2nd pic is fantastic looking.
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It's two photos you've seen a million different variations of before: "it doesn't matter how much you make yourself look like a complete tit, if you're the quarterback you're still going home with the hottest chick in the house".
Pretty much. I never understood the "Haha - the QB who's getting all the derriere looks ridiculous" comments.
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The broad in the 2nd pic is fantastic looking.
On this we concur.
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Smith and Sanchez are very similar, but Smith is lacking hugely in one area, winning games in the 4th quarter.
When Sanchez would have his melt downs it was usually early in the game, but when the game was winnable he'd step up in the 4th quarter. I am not seeing that in Geno at all.
...what?
http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/article-insidewitheafb/Geno-Smith-Looks-Ahead/5e3185bd-34cf-4baf-9af9-72096cd18af1
"The West Virginia product became the only QB since the 1970 merger with four game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime in his first seven games."
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...what?
http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/article-insidewitheafb/Geno-Smith-Looks-Ahead/5e3185bd-34cf-4baf-9af9-72096cd18af1
"The West Virginia product became the only QB since the 1970 merger with four game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime in his first seven games."
Hey did you notice the broad in the 2nd pic?
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Stupid corporate firewall...
As for Geno, he's won a few games late almost completely on his own. The one thing I'll give him that Sanchez never really had was ice in his veins. He never seems nervous.
That said, I do cringe a lot when he's throwing the ball. That's a learned response. When he throws into traffic I almost have to look away.
Interestingly (or tragically depending on how you look at it) Geno needs ~345 more yards this year to beat the team rookie record for passing yards. The guy he'll surpass? Mark Sanchez.
This organization has been a complete failure at the most important position in the sport.
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This organization has been a complete failure at the most important position in the sport.
Yep, any time they've had success its because they had a guy at QB who was at least half way respectable.
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Interestingly (or tragically depending on how you look at it) Geno needs ~345 more yards this year to beat the team rookie record for passing yards. The guy he'll surpass? Mark Sanchez.
This organization has been a complete failure at the most important position in the sport.
Hell, earlier in the season he was on pace to break the team record for passing yards. Not just the rookie record.
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Yep, any time they've had success its because they had a guy at QB who was at least half way respectable.
In fairness, that can be said of practically every team ever. You have to have good (at least low % of mistakes) play from the QB position to win in the NFL. There's no way around it.
Hell, earlier in the season he was on pace to break the team record for passing yards. Not just the rookie record.
I wasn't sure I could feel worse about it when I read the rookie stat. Thanks for helping me answer that definitively!
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As for Geno, he's won a few games late almost completely on his own. The one thing I'll give him that Sanchez never really had was ice in his veins. He never seems nervous.
2010...
Mark Sanchez was clutch as hell in certain spots.
And like Sanchez back then, Smith doesn't win any of those games without incredible defensive play. The wins over TB and NE were pure luck too. I'll take 'em, but still...
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As for Geno, he's won a few games late almost completely on his own. The one thing I'll give him that Sanchez never really had was ice in his veins. He never seems nervous.
What? Sanchez's best performance of his college career was in the Rose Bowl, his best performance in his professional career was in the playoffs, and he had a crazy amount of 4th quarter comebacks over his first few years.
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Smith looked pretty nervous against Buffalo on Sunday.
Even Marcel Dareus said something about it. Something like "once we got a big hit on him early, we knew it was over" ...
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Smith looked pretty nervous against Buffalo on Sunday.
Even Marcel Dareus said something about it. Something like "once we got a big hit on him early, we knew it was over" ...
He didn't look like his normal self, I will attest to that. I said to the person next to me at the bar, that the look on his face didn't instill much confidence. If I could see that, I am pretty sure the guys playing with him could see it.
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2010...
Mark Sanchez was clutch as hell in certain spots.
And like Sanchez back then, Smith doesn't win any of those games without incredible defensive play. The wins over TB and NE were pure luck too. I'll take 'em, but still...
I wouldn't say they were pure luck. The back shoulder throw to Braylon on the sideline at Indy set up Folk's game wining kick; at New England he threw two or three TDs.
Three years ago today was the Houston comeback at home with no timeouts and needing a TD. The two weeks prior to that he threw the game winning TD and set up a game winning OT FG with passes to Tone. Brought us down the field at Pittsburgh later that year for the win, too.
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I wouldn't say they were pure luck. The back shoulder throw to Braylon on the sideline at Indy set up Folk's game wining kick; at New England he threw two or three TDs.
What in the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about this season.
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What in the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about this season.
Sanchez didn't play this season, idiot.
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Sanchez didn't play this season, idiot.
...
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Buffalo was the first time I've seen Geno actually rattled. Maybe it's flawed memory, but I don't remember Sanchez appearing super-confident even in the comeback wins he led.
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Buffalo was the first time I've seen Geno actually rattled. Maybe it's flawed memory, but I don't remember Sanchez appearing super-confident even in the comeback wins he led.
Smith always has the same demeanor, but his play screams lack of confidence to me. He's late on a ton of throws and he's been incredibly inconsistent.
That blank stare that Smith has isn't confidence. It's just his personality or lack thereof.
Smith's had multiple games that have snowballed on him. He's been absolutely terrible in games after the Atlanta win.
(Also, watch the Syracuse game from last year...)
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What in the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about this season.
My bad, I thought you were referring to the playoff games with Sanchez. Read it wrong, not sure where I got Indy from TB.
I'm not sure Tampa Bay and New England were pure luck either. We could have beaten New England twice, a split is probably justice based on those two games. The Tampa Bay game was just a tight game but not pure luck.
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My bad, I thought you were referring to the playoff games with Sanchez.
I'm not sure Tampa Bay and New England were pure luck either. We could have beaten New England twice, a split is probably justice based on those two games. The Tampa Bay game was just a tight game but not pure luck.
That pushing penalty was lucky, and so was the Lavonte David late hit.
Like I said earlier, I'll take the wins...but the Jets caught some serious breaks in those games.
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Smith looked pretty nervous against Buffalo on Sunday.
Even Marcel Dareus said something about it. Something like "once we got a big hit on him early, we knew it was over" ...
This is the excrement that ruins young QBs; he's starting to get scared. Even if he is part of the long term plan, Geno should not be on the field.
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This is the excrement that ruins young QBs; he's starting to get scared. Even if he is part of the long term plan, Geno should not be on the field.
I'm not a fan of putting a rookie quarterback on the field (unless he's Andrew Luck/Peyton Manning) to start the season, especially when the personnel surrounding him is some of the worst in the NFL.
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This is the excrement that ruins young QBs; he's starting to get scared. Even if he is part of the long term plan, Geno should not be on the field.
Oh that's funny. Remember that time you wanted him to get injured ?
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but I don't remember Sanchez appearing super-confident even in the comeback wins he led.
The thing that really made me believe Sanchez was the one was the way he handled the 2nd half of the AFCCG against Pittsburgh. He led the team to almost one of the greatest comebacks ever, and the way he handled the post-game presser afterwards was awesome. Ugh
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The thing that really made me believe Sanchez was the one was the way he handled the 2nd half of the AFCCG against Pittsburgh. He led the team to almost one of the greatest comebacks ever, and the way he handled the post-game presser afterwards was awesome. Ugh
Even though we lost that game, that was one of the best halves of football I've ever experienced. The thought that "OMG WE CAN PULL THIS OFF AND MAKE IT TO THE SUPER BOWL!" hit my head the entire half, and kept getting stronger and stronger. Yeah, would have been awesome if we won, but that experience. Damn.
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That pushing penalty was lucky, and so was the Lavonte David late hit.
Like I said earlier, I'll take the wins...but the Jets caught some serious breaks in those games.
You forget the call on Hill, you know the complete bullshit one that took back the winning touchdown. So no the second New England game wasn't lucky it should never have went to overtime in the first place.
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You forget the call on Hill, you know the complete bullshit one that took back the winning touchdown. So no the second New England game wasn't lucky it should never have went to overtime in the first place.
Meh, the corner flopped, which made it more frustrating...but Hill extended his arm and that's going to get called most of the time.
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Meh, the corner flopped, which made it more frustrating...but Hill extended his arm and that's going to get called most of the time.
Dude it was a bullshit call, but fine, it doesn't matter anyway, the field goal penalty is a red herring. Brady had to still get in field goal range which was not a given that day. Not only that, the Jets out played New England in every phase of the game. There's no way on God's green earth the Jets lucked out, no way.
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Dude it was a bullshit call, but fine, it doesn't matter anyway, the field goal penalty is a red herring. Brady had to still get in field goal range which was not a given that day. Not only that, the Jets out played New England in every phase of the game. There's no way on God's green earth the Jets lucked out, no way.
(http://www.bodylovewellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/well-thats-just-like-your-opinion-man-gif-the-dude-lebowski.gif)
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The pieces are falling in place for this to happen: Michael Vick to the Jets in 2014
...and if the Jets opt to go with Vick/Smith over drafting a high potential prospect, I will flip my excrement.
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Oh that's funny. Remember that time you wanted him to get injured ?
That's cute. Did you have any actual argument to contribute or are you just going to be butthurt every time someone points out that your boi is freaking up?
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That's cute. Did you have any actual argument to contribute or are you just going to be butthurt every time someone points out that your boi is freaking up?
Doesn't change the fact that you actually wanted to see the starting QB of your team injured.
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Doesn't change the fact that you actually wanted to see the starting QB of your team injured.
Injured, benched, wrongfully arrested on human trafficing charges, I'll take any of them if it gets the QB leading the league in turnovers out from under center.
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The pieces are falling in place for this to happen: Michael Vick to the Jets in 2014
...and if the Jets opt to go with Vick/Smith over drafting a high potential prospect, I will flip my excrement.
I might actually break things.
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What's the record for most turnovers in a season by a team?
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What's the record for most turnovers in a season by a team?
San Fran in 1978 had 63.
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San Fran in 1978 had 63.
Worst franchise ever.
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I can't find the NYJ record for most turnovers.
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I can't find the NYJ record for most turnovers.
Well they had 46 in '96, so they'd have to step it up to match that at the very least.
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Well they had 46 in '96, so they'd have to step it up to match that at the very least.
Open up the playbook for Geno.
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The pieces are falling in place for this to happen: Michael Vick to the Jets in 2014
...and if the Jets opt to go with Vick/Smith over drafting a high potential prospect, I will flip my excrement.
Why would we ever do that?
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Why would we ever do that?
"Geno needs more time to develop, the Eagles are going to dump Vick so let's reunite him with Mornhinweg and try to make a run."
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"Geno needs more time to develop, the Eagles are going to dump Vick so let's reunite him with Mornhinweg and try to make a run."
Yes, unfortunately.
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Vick can barely stay on the field, I'd rather have Geno at this point. If we were interested in making a run we should have kept Revis for this year, we'd be making it now.
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"Geno needs more time to develop, the Eagles are going to dump Vick so let's reunite him with Mornhinweg and try to make a run."
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2QVuJxoLfYe1nRxvx683h-D7Q8RHwqfBYrPtBXz59sUcXE8UbOQ)
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Vick can barely stay on the field, I'd rather have Geno at this point. If we were interested in making a run we should have kept Revis for this year, we'd be making it now.
Revis plays offense?
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Vick can barely stay on the field, I'd rather have Geno at this point. If we were interested in making a run we should have kept Revis for this year, we'd be making it now.
I hope you realize we all agree that we don't want Vick. I was just providing the possible reasoning behind such a move.
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We don't want Vick, but don't lie....it would be exciting as excrement to have him.
Kind of like with Favre.
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We don't want Vick, but don't lie....it would be exciting as excrement to have him.
Kind of like with Favre.
Would it really? The guy would get injured after a few games, and we'll be way worse off.
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We don't want Vick, but don't lie....it would be exciting as excrement to have him.
Kind of like with Favre.
Just what we need, another 2008.
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Would it really? The guy would get injured after a few games, and we'll be way worse off.
Yeah, just like with Favre. Only difference is that Vick would let himself be taken off the field.
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Revis plays offense?
We're having trouble stopping the pass and he was under contract for the season at a decent price.
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Would it really? The guy would get injured after a few games, and we'll be way worse off.
I agree. Even now I just root for him to be healthy enough to beat the Giants twice a year and he can barely do that.
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The pieces are falling in place for this to happen: Michael Vick to the Jets in 2014
...and if the Jets opt to go with Vick/Smith over drafting a high potential prospect, I will flip my excrement.
Im not a fan of the Vick move persay, but i think its much more likely than people think. How would you feel about the move if we end up drafting later than people think, and we instead opt to go offense heavy in the draft.
I mean if we took 3 wrs/tes + a guard in the first 4-5 rounds I would have a hard time complaining about that.
Geno gets his chance to sit and learn, trying to improve upon his poor mechanics.
Then we either win with Rex + Vick/Geno or replace Rex and let the new HC draft his own QB.
I think drafting a rookie QB in a make or break year for your HC doesnt make sense unless hes an elite talent. And if he was an elite talent, he wouldnt be lasting until our pick.
Of course this is all assuming that Rex/MM are both back next year. If we excrement the bed and fire both, all bets are off
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I agree. Even now I just root for him to be healthy enough to beat the Giants twice a year and he can barely do that.
But now we have a potentially elite defensive tackle under contract for four years at a decent price, another relatively high third round pick, and plenty of cap space...
This team is closer to competing than I thought. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I doubt Michael Vick is the one to take us to the promised land, but he knows the scheme and he'll be inexpensive.
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bring in vic to run the wildcat, keep sanchez as the regular qb
superbowl
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(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1018/grantland_g_vick01jr_576.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/23/e5a4u9ej.jpg)
bros 2 the grave thugz 4 lyfe ya herd
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we ride together we die together
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Interesting deep passing stats:
http://regressing.deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039
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Please no to Vick. I'd rather watch Geno for another year.
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I'd rather wish we have Jay Cutler or Josh McCown
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I'd rather wish we have Jay Cutler or Josh McCown
Taking a QB high and then signing McCown would be solid.
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I wish we got Jason Campbell when we could have.
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I wish we got Jason Campbell when we could have.
Yep
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am I the only poopchute here kind of hoping that the defense has an amazing first half tomorrow to keep it close while Geno throws 3 picks
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am I the only poopchute here kind of hoping that the defense has an amazing first half tomorrow to keep it close while Geno throws 3 picks
And then Matt Simms comes in and saves the day?
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am I the only poopchute here.
No
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And then Matt Simms comes in and saves the day?
I think you mean tom brady 2.0
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Didn't think it could get any worse.
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am I the only poopchute here kind of hoping that the defense has an amazing first half tomorrow to keep it close while Geno throws 3 picks
Well, that's esentially what happened...
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I'm 41. I have seen every shitty QB that we have had. I honestly can't think of worse.
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I'm 41. I have seen every shitty QB that we have had. I honestly can't think of worse.
Rick Mirer? At least they could bench him.
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Rick Mirer? At least they could bench him.
Brooks Bollinger!
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Quincy Carter was better
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Nope. I have never seen worse.
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Bench the idiot, put Simms in, see if we have something there.
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Brooks Bollinger!
I honestly don't remember Bollinger being that shitty. He definitely wasn't good enough but he kept us in some games when everything was falling apart.
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SethWalderNYDN: Rex won't say if Geno will start next game. #nyj
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SethWalderNYDN: Rex won't say if Geno will start next game. #nyj
which is absolutely the right thing to say.
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which is absolutely the right thing to say.
Well, he didn't actually say that.
He just said he's not going to commit to anyone (veteran or rookie) until he sees the film.
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I honestly don't remember Bollinger being that shitty. He definitely wasn't good enough but he kept us in some games when everything was falling apart.
My point exactly. If the D put up 14 on their own we still lose. Geno is terrible.
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Well, he didn't actually say that.
He just said he's not going to commit to anyone (veteran or rookie) until he sees the film.
which is the right thing to say. ultimately I expect (ok am hoping against hope) that Simms is playing next week.
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which is the right thing to say. ultimately I expect (ok am hoping against hope) that Simms is playing next week.
PLEASE? If I'm hungover on a Sunday, at least give me something to root for.
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I really can't wait until we get a stable franchise QB that produces.
I'm tired of freaking around with morons that can't read defenses and are prone to regression.
It'll be really interesting to see how Idzik approaches the 2014 draft. If QB isn't a top priority....it's going to be a long next couple of seasons.
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Geno is starting next week, let's not kid ourselves.
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When you actually have the thought "I wish we had Kellen Clemens as our QB" you know things are bad.
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When you actually have the thought "I wish we had Kellen Clemens as our QB" you know things are bad.
I would rather have Scott Tolzien
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We have a non complete moron (until proven otherwise). Just start him.
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I would rather have Scott Tolzien
Sweet spin move, bro.
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So Derek Carr became that much more of a possibility today.
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So Derek Carr became that much more of a possibility today.
We'll have to lose out to get him, in my opinion.
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We'll have to lose out to get him, in my opinion.
So in a serious question,
this is a strong QB class, with as many potential first rounders as we have ever seen, let alone top 10 guys based on potential.
The top 10 is/will be littered with teams absolutely desperate for a QB. Is it possible we see more than 5 top 10 QB's if everybody plays lights out at the combine/senior bowl/entire draft process?
Secondly, is it possible, Clowney is not a top 5 pick because of all of this?
Also as to Carr, you seem to be ignoring the potential of a tradeup, and the fact we are so demoralized right now by Geno's abysmal play we could easily do so while only allowing 10 ppg.
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So in a serious question,
this is a strong QB class, with as many potential first rounders as we have ever seen, let alone top 10 guys based on potential.
The top 10 is/will be littered with teams absolutely desperate for a QB. Is it possible we see more than 5 top 10 QB's if everybody plays lights out at the combine/senior bowl/entire draft process?
Secondly, is it possible, Clowney is not a top 5 pick because of all of this?
I could see the top 5 being 3 QBs, a LT and Clowney.
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The top 10 is/will be littered with teams absolutely desperate for a QB. Is it possible we see more than 5 top 10 QB's if everybody plays lights out at the combine/senior bowl/entire draft process?
If all of them come out, then it's definitely possible.
And the New York Jets should be okay with getting any of them.
Secondly, is it possible, Clowney is not a top 5 pick because of all of this?
Atlanta will probably take him.
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Let's get Scott Zolack out of retirement.
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I could see the top 5 being 3 QBs, a LT and Clowney.
Anthony Barr could be a top five pick as well
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Anthony Barr could be a top five pick as well
That's true, I'd bump Manziel out then.
In no exact order, Teddy Bear, David Carr Jr., JJ Clowney, Tony B and T-Lew.
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If all of them come out, then it's definitely possible.
And the New York Jets should be okay with getting any of them.
Atlanta will probably take him.
I was thinking they would be an OT likely team, or possibly a landing spot for Watkins if White moves on.
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I was thinking they would be an OT likely team, or possibly a landing spot for Watkins if White moves on.
Julio Jones and Sammy Watkins? Nice.
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I was thinking they would be an OT likely team, or possibly a landing spot for Watkins if White moves on.
I think ATL has to go defense early. They have enough weapons on offense to compete. White is signed for one more year.
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That's true, I'd bump Manziel out then.
In no exact order, Teddy Bear, David Carr Jr., JJ Clowney, Tony B and T-Lew.
If Kevin Sumlin ends up in Houston, like a lot of people are suggesting, then I wonder if he opts to take his boy Manziel with their first rounder.
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I will not make the 2014 tailgate if we take Manziel. The hole in my head will prevent me.
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I will not make the 2014 tailgate if we take Manziel. The hole in my head will prevent me.
Manziel is a hundred times better than Smith
...but he parties and drinks in college, so freak him
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Manziel is a hundred times better than Smith
...but he parties and drinks in college, so freak him
Looked great yesterday.
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I think ATL has to go defense early. They have enough weapons on offense to compete. White is signed for one more year.
If they trade Roddy White (which I think is somewhat likely) for a 2nd or better, they can take Watkins to replace him, while spending everything else on the defense/ol
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If they trade Roddy White (which I think is somewhat likely) for a 2nd or better, they can take Watkins to replace him, while spending everything else on the defense/ol
Roddy White is old and coming off a terrible year. No one will give up more than a 4th for him.
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Looked great yesterday.
Judge a prospect by one game, Rotoworld-style.
For some reason LSU has his number. He's had two career games with a QB rating under 100, and they've both been against LSU.
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If they trade Roddy White (which I think is somewhat likely) for a 2nd or better, they can take Watkins to replace him, while spending everything else on the defense/ol
Unless Denver or New England gets incredibly desperate for another receiver, nobody will trade anything more than a mid-to-late rounder for him at this point in his career.
I think they'll either take the best DL or best OL available. They are the only top five team that definitely won't pick a QB.
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Waiting for those fags over at TOJ to compare Andrew Luck's bad game today to Geno Smith's.
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Waiting for those fags over at TOJ to compare Andrew Luck's bad game today to Geno Smith's.
Andrew Luck + Greg Salas = Super Bowl
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Their twitter account was annoying as excrement today. I was this close to hit the unfollow button but their site entretains me during slow weeks.
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Their twitter account was annoying as excrement today. I was this close to hit the unfollow button but their site entretains me during slow weeks.
I try to avoid twitter in general during Jets games. I prefer to exchange my stupid thoughts with the posters here.
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I try to avoid twitter in general during Jets games. I prefer to exchange my stupid thoughts with the posters here.
Yeah, I should do that, the thing is that I still need to be on Twitter for work, so wouldn't get rid of those people anyway.
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Yeah, I should do that, the thing is that I still need to be on Twitter for work, so wouldn't get rid of those people anyway.
Your avatar is stupid. Has nothing to do with Mexico.
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I freaking hate Geno Smith as a football player.
I hated the pick on draft day. I knew this kid did not have what it took to play in this league at a high level. The writing was clearly on the wall at West Virginia. He's clueless and over his head.
Give Rex a veteran QB who won't buttfuck the offense like a rookie would, and this team will make the playoffs. The AFC sucks, 9 wins gets you a freaking WC spot.
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If we end up drafting a QB I hope we don't ruin him by surrounding him with excrement. The offense sucks at every single group.
Just what the Carr family needs, another great supporting cast.
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I freaking hate Geno Smith as a football player.
I hated the pick on draft day. I knew this kid did not have what it took to play in this league at a high level. The writing was clearly on the wall at West Virginia. He's clueless and over his head.
Give Rex a veteran QB who won't buttfuck the offense like a rookie would, and this team will make the playoffs. The AFC sucks, 9 wins gets you a freaking WC spot.
Why are you so sure Rex is coming back?
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Why are you so sure Rex is coming back?
We aren't sure. But I seriously doubt there is a coaching upgrade out there for Rex this offseason. The Jets have had 2 damn good football teams in his 5 years, and one good+ team (this year) and he got us to 2 AFCCGs and has us in the playoff hunt with the worst QB play in football.
How many freaking coaches would have us in this spot with Geno's fucked upness behind Center?
not many, and Rex shouldn't be fired because we can't get anybody to play even remotely "average" under center. Because you just watch, if Rex gets fired and he goes someplace like Houston with some strong defensive pieces, and drafts a legit QB, he will be disgustingly good.
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How many freaking coaches would have us in this spot with Geno's fucked upness behind Center?
Well... you give a defensive coordinator three first round linemen and two first round cornerbacks in four years, he's generally going to have some success.
Some of those coaches might even be able to field a pass defense better than 23rd in the league.
On the other hand... I don't know of too many offensive coordinators who could succeed without a first round pick in four years.
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When you look back at all our teams since 2009, has Rex really been as effective as many of us seem to think?
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When you look back at all our teams since 2009, has Rex really been as effective as many of us seem to think?
I think the clear answer is "no."
The myth is that Rex Ryan gets the most out of his players. I think its closer to the truth to say that he actually gets inexplicably poor performances out of good players. From Kerry Rhodes in 2009, to Kyle Wilson most of his career, to David Harris last season or Dee Milliner, Quinton Coples and Antonio Cromartie this season, it always seems like somebody is inexplicably underperforming.
Maybe I'm not giving enough credit where it's due, and Sheldon Richardson or Wilkerson would be mere JAG's on other teams, but I doubt it.
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Our DL is the only unit on our team playing well, because that's where the elite talent is. Rex Ryan has something to do with that, but not a lot.
Ryan is responsible for this mess now that Mike Tannenbaum is gone. All of the blame cannot be placed on the former GM. Ryan was partly in-charge of putting this roster together too.
Instead of worrying about building on both sides, he basically said:
"Sign all of the Ravens castoffs"
and
"I get one pick every year, lemme take a fullback. That will fix the offense! More runs!"
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A lot of our failures are on him. Yeah, you can blame the GM, but the coach does have some say on the talent that gets signed, drafted, or whatever. We failed in 2011 in keeping the offensive side of the ball talented, and the same thing in subsequent years. Tired of this excrement. We need a HC that can get this excrement in order.
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We aren't sure. But I seriously doubt there is a coaching upgrade out there for Rex this offseason. The Jets have had 2 damn good football teams in his 5 years, and one good+ team (this year) and he got us to 2 AFCCGs and has us in the playoff hunt with the worst QB play in football.
How many freaking coaches would have us in this spot with Geno's fucked upness behind Center?
not many, and Rex shouldn't be fired because we can't get anybody to play even remotely "average" under center. Because you just watch, if Rex gets fired and he goes someplace like Houston with some strong defensive pieces, and drafts a legit QB, he will be disgustingly good.
We haven't had solid QB play in five seasons under Rex Ryan. We're also about to miss the playoffs for a third straight year.
His job is far from safe.
The fact that he's a defensive minded head coach doesn't excuse him for the offense's lack of production. He let it get that way by constantly adding big pieces to the defense instead of the offense.
Mark Sanchez is the only offensive first rounder of the Rex Ryan era. That's his fault.
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We are 6-4 if Dirty is our QB.
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We are 6-4 if Dirty is our QB.
We would have played one less game?
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We would have played one less game?
Everyone in the NFL would have gone on strike after week 11 if Mark Sanchez was allowed to play ten games.
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Everyone in the NFL would have gone on strike after week 11 if Mark Sanchez was allowed to play ten games.
I spit out my coffee. That was awesome.
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Everyone in the NFL would have gone on strike after week 11 if Mark Sanchez was allowed to play ten games.
As long as our players crossed the picket line and got to play against everyone's replacements, I'd be OK with this.
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I think the clear answer is "no."
The myth is that Rex Ryan gets the most out of his players. I think its closer to the truth to say that he actually gets inexplicably poor performances out of good players. From Kerry Rhodes in 2009, to Kyle Wilson most of his career, to David Harris last season or Dee Milliner, Quinton Coples and Antonio Cromartie this season, it always seems like somebody is inexplicably underperforming.
Maybe I'm not giving enough credit where it's due, and Sheldon Richardson or Wilkerson would be mere JAG's on other teams, but I doubt it.
I am not letting Rex off the hook but Harris is severely over rated. He has declined immensely since 2010. Is that because of Rex or the simple fact that 2010 was the start of some of the best TE's we have ever seen and Harris is an absolute statue in coverage. I think he should be kicked to the curb, all the effective MLB's/ILB's are fast sideline to sideline guys that can cover. Harris is a dinosaur now. It's amazing how fast the game passed him by.
Cromartie has been playing hurt the entire season, the dude can not run, it's obvious. He is normally as fast anyone out there.
There are no talented safeties on the team so the secondary is awful.
Milliner is a work in progress at arguably most difficult position. Yesterday, Ed Reed cut him off, I think he might have made a play on that TD.
I am a little more than 50/50 on Rex and his nonsense but the failure we are witnessing is a result of the mortgaging of the draft from 2008-2010. It has killed this team. Those players should be the bulk of the high end players on the team as they would be in years 4-6 of their careers, their absolute primes. The Jets have 1 nickle corner to show for it.
Conservatively say, the Jets should have picked 6 starters and 4-5 depth players in those 3 years without factoring in UDFA's. They are missing 20% of a roster, that is monumental franchise killing failure. Is that all on Rex? Nope. Is some of it on him? Absolutely, I am assuming he had a decent say in the picks.
If you think Rex is getting the team to overachieve and the roster really is a 3-4 win roster max (I think it is), keep him here for 1 more year, extend him 1 year so he isn't a lame duck.
If you think this is a 8-8, 9-7 ish team, then the answer is let the season play out and fire him if the record is less than that.
I am more in the former than the latter, this roster is awful aside from 4-5 defensive players. Even Mangold and Brick are south of mediocre this year.
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From a record standpoint this team is over performing this year, but even when we had a winning record the point differential was still way in the negative. We've scraped out a couple wins, and gotten blown out in most of our losses. I don't think Rex is really overachieving this year, but I also don't think he should be fired.
In 5 years, he has not had good players on offense (put some of the blame on him for that as I'm sure he's had a hand in shaping the roster). The first couple years he had a good oline and running game, but he was still dealing with a rookie QB. We have new pieces on offense every year, and these new pieces seem to be worse and worse every year. I think from a talent standpoint we have consistently had one of the worst offensive rosters in the league since Rex has been here. Besides the lack of talent on offense, you can't score points in this league without a decent QB. Geno isn't even in the realm of decent for most of this season, and Sanchez was consistently one of the worst starting QBs in the league.
Maybe our offense wouldn't consistently look like the worst in the NFL if we had an offensive minded head coach, but I put that more on the talent we've had than anything Rex has done. Maybe that's just bias on my part, but I have no frame of reference to tell me otherwise since we haven't seen an offensive minded head coach deal with this roster.
So why don't I think he deserves to be fired? Hard to say, but I just feel like he is a talented football mind and has the personality, energy, and attitude to lead professional football players. This is obviously a strange way to evaluate a head coach from the outside, but it is just how I feel. Surround him with a competent GM and give him some good offensive coaches, and I think you still have a winning formula as long as we can find a competent QB.
I don't think it's necessarily that big of a deal to be weak on one side of the ball and have a good coordinator handle it. Is MM the answer for our offense? The early signs don't look great, but again it's hard to say when your talent on one side of the ball is so weak.
It is very hard to win in todays NFL without any kind of passing offense. Unfortunately for Rex, I don't see things turning around any time soon. Even if Rex stays around, and we draft a new QB in the first round next year, that again gives him a rookie QB with a terrible supporting cast. We're not in a good place to compete offensively right now, and I don't think bringing in a new coach will do much to change that.
It's probably a good helping of bias and just the fact that I like the guy, but I hope Rex sees another season as head coach of this team.
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Your avatar is stupid. Has nothing to do with Mexico.
It's green like the Mexican flag. That's enough :P.
It's a rendition of how would the Jets logo be if they were a soccer team.
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It's green like the Mexican flag. That's enough :P.
It's a rendition of how would the Jets logo be if they were a soccer team.
I'm still waiting for that guy to finish the rest of those. I want to see the other club styles for the Jets.
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It's green like the Mexican flag. That's enough :P.
It's a rendition of how would the Jets logo be if they were a soccer team.
You know the plane in that logo is an F-14. The plane was retired in 2006, what are you trying to say with that logo? The Jets should be retired? The players look like they have retired? It's very perplexing to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F-14_Tomcat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F-14_Tomcat)
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Milliner is a work in progress at arguably most difficult position. Yesterday, Ed Reed cut him off, I think he might have made a play on that TD.
I'm glad other people saw that. Unfortunately, Rex is not one of those people.
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I'm glad other people saw that. Unfortunately, Rex is not one of those people.
He had a jump on that pass, he was looking back the entire way, then Reed took that awful line, horrible.
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Don't get me wrong, I love Rex, but more so because of his personality. I just can't let his shortcomings as a HEAD coach go. Great defensive mind, average-below average overall football mind.
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I am not letting Rex off the hook but Harris is severely over rated. He has declined immensely since 2010. Is that because of Rex or the simple fact that 2010 was the start of some of the best TE's we have ever seen and Harris is an absolute statue in coverage. I think he should be kicked to the curb, all the effective MLB's/ILB's are fast sideline to sideline guys that can cover. Harris is a dinosaur now. It's amazing how fast the game passed him by.
Harris hasn't been the same since Bart Scott retired, since Harris had to become the veteran anchor he hasn't been nearly as effective.
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Harris hasn't been the same since Bart Scott retired, since Harris had to become the veteran anchor he hasn't been nearly as effective.
He's having a solid season this year, but a lot of that has to do with the war-daddys up front keeping blocks off of him.
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He's having a solid season this year, but a lot of that has to do with the war-daddys up front keeping blocks off of him.
He's solid against the run but useless in coverage. Nowadays, I would argue the latter is a way more important trait.
Fact remains his contract is brutal.
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He's solid against the run but useless in coverage. Nowadays, I would argue the latter is a way more important trait.
Fact remains his contract is brutal.
I wouldn't be upset to him go in the offseason.
Getting rid of certain contracts (Holmes and Sanchez) is key to this offseason being successful. Extending Wilkerson is also extremely important.
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I wouldn't be upset to him go in the offseason.
Getting rid of certain contracts (Holmes and Sanchez) is key to this offseason being successful. Extending Wilkerson is also extremely important.
Agreed, I like Harris, don't get me wrong. I just think he is a luxury for a team. The Jets are in no position to carry luxury type players.
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Kellen Clemens is an UFA.....
Make it happen, Tanny.
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I wouldn't be upset to him go in the offseason.
Getting rid of certain contracts (Holmes and Sanchez) is key to this offseason being successful. Extending Wilkerson is also extremely important.
Yes.
Also, sign Cutler. Enough of this crap. Get a real QB in here and draft someone to learn while we actually have a QB who can give the defense a reason to play.
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Throw me right on the Sign Cutler bandwagon. I don't give a freak. Sign a proven QB NOW. NOW NOW NOW.
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Throw me right on the Sign Cutler bandwagon. I don't give a freak. Sign a proven QB NOW. NOW NOW NOW.
If Rex holds on to his job, signing Cutler would be so awesome.
The Jets tried to get him in a trade before we drafted Mark Sanchez.
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If Rex holds on to his job, signing Cutler would be so awesome.
The Jets tried to get him in a trade before we drafted Mark Sanchez.
I think we win a Super Bowl in one of the years 2009-11 if we had Cutler instead of Sanchez.
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If Rex holds on to his job, signing Cutler would be so awesome.
The Jets tried to get him in a trade before we drafted Mark Sanchez.
My ideal is Rex staying and Cutler coming here. Hell, I wanted the Jets to draft Cutler in the first place.
Keep Geno as the backup and draft as good a prospect at the position as possible (unless an elite offensive weapon is staring them in the face). Let Cutler lead the team for a few years while whoever sits behind him learns.
With Cutler, and assuming they spend some of that additional "see ya" money from Sanchez and Holmes on weapons, this team is title-worthy under Rex.
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I am not letting Rex off the hook but Harris is severely over rated. He has declined immensely since 2010. Is that because of Rex or the simple fact that 2010 was the start of some of the best TE's we have ever seen and Harris is an absolute statue in coverage. I think he should be kicked to the curb, all the effective MLB's/ILB's are fast sideline to sideline guys that can cover. Harris is a dinosaur now. It's amazing how fast the game passed him by.
Cromartie has been playing hurt the entire season, the dude can not run, it's obvious. He is normally as fast anyone out there.
There are no talented safeties on the team so the secondary is awful.
Milliner is a work in progress at arguably most difficult position. Yesterday, Ed Reed cut him off, I think he might have made a play on that TD.
I am a little more than 50/50 on Rex and his nonsense but the failure we are witnessing is a result of the mortgaging of the draft from 2008-2010. It has killed this team. Those players should be the bulk of the high end players on the team as they would be in years 4-6 of their careers, their absolute primes. The Jets have 1 nickle corner to show for it.
Conservatively say, the Jets should have picked 6 starters and 4-5 depth players in those 3 years without factoring in UDFA's. They are missing 20% of a roster, that is monumental franchise killing failure. Is that all on Rex? Nope. Is some of it on him? Absolutely, I am assuming he had a decent say in the picks.
If you think Rex is getting the team to overachieve and the roster really is a 3-4 win roster max (I think it is), keep him here for 1 more year, extend him 1 year so he isn't a lame duck.
If you think this is a 8-8, 9-7 ish team, then the answer is let the season play out and fire him if the record is less than that.
I am more in the former than the latter, this roster is awful aside from 4-5 defensive players. Even Mangold and Brick are south of mediocre this year.
The way I look at it is simple. Where is the team with out a 20+ turnover rookie QB? We are 5-6 with him so is Geno not turning the ball over + 1 or 2 games? My opinion is yes. That would put us at 6-5 or 7-4.
Secondly, have the "good" games from Smith, games another QB couldn't have done?
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I WANT CUTLER.
That'd be the perfect solution for this team. We would have 3 or 4 years of decent QB production and can focus in other areas of the field (OL, WRs, TE) waiting for the next good generation of QBs to appear
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Do Chicago want to move away from Cutler?
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Do Chicago want to move away from Cutler?
They're probably unsure of how much they want to pay him when he becomes a free agent after the season.
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If you bring in Cutler, better have a good backup QB. He rarely plays all 16, not that that's always his fault.
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The Jets can afford to pay him a lot of money, and we'll likely be out of the running for a top QB prospect without moving up. It just makes too much sense.
Now it's in my head, and I'll be pissed if we don't land Cutler. Feels like 2009 all over again.
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Now it's in my head, and I'll be pissed if we don't land Cutler. Feels like 2009 all over again.
Man, this must have been a rough 58 minutes for you.
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Throw all the money at Jay Cutler and Hakeem Nicks
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Throw all the money at Jay Cutler and Hakeem Nicks
have you seen hakeem nicks play the last two years? All the foot and ankle injuries have made him a shell of himself.
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have you seen hakeem nicks play the last two years? All the foot and ankle injuries have made him a shell of himself.
He's missed time this year with minor injuries to his abdomen and groin...
I don't want to see him signed to a huge deal, but he deserves a nice pay day. He's also better than anything we've got.
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Ryan on the Michael Kay Show blaming the receivers for Smith's struggles
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If you bring in Cutler, better have a good backup QB. He rarely plays all 16, not that that's always his fault.
We keep Sanchez :P. Kidding, but a Sanchez-like veteran (without ambitions of being a starter) would be ideal, someone like Matt Moore.
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Just say no to Nicks, no freak that. He has skill up the derriere but he is Tiffany China. Paying him big money would be the epitome of chasing your own trail. freak that no.
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Yeah bring in Cutler definitely if at all possible, he is a perfect match for MM. Make no mistake though he is a turnover machine at times.
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Ryan on the Michael Kay Show blaming the receivers for Smith's struggles
What the actual freak.
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Throw all the money at Jay Cutler and Hakeem Nicks
There Would Be Chub.
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What the actual freak.
He basically said that since they don't practice, it's their fault.
Also, he's doing the whole: "...he gives us the best chance to win" thing with Geno Smith.
Same story, different season.
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If that's the case Rex is delusional. He is blind to QB play.
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Any guesses on the game Batman Simms gets the start/long relief this season? Surely it's gonna happen.
Geno Smith looking like Jimmy Clausen for 2014.
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Any guesses on the game Batman Simms gets the start/long relief this season? Surely it's gonna happen.
Geno Smith looking like Jimmy Clausen for 2014.
Smith might get killed against Miami. Literally killed.
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There Would Be Chub.
If both stay healthy.
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He basically said that since they don't practice, it's their fault.
Also, he's doing the whole: "...he gives us the best chance to win" thing with Geno Smith.
Same story, different season.
I'm familiar with Rex's willingness to talk up a player who does not deserve it but I'v never seen it happen at the expense of their teammates. Dude can eqsily lose the locker room like that.
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Uh. Idzik drafted Geno
Pretty sure he has some input in these discussions
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Uh. Idzik drafted Geno
Pretty sure he has some input in these discussions
I'm in total agreement here. Idzik has significant input in this decision I really think he is really pushing Rex to keep Geno on the field.
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I'm in total agreement here. Idzik has significant input in this decision I really think he is really pushing Rex to keep Geno on the field.
And in the end, that's perfectly fine with me. If he wants to extend his audition and the expense of his current head coach (the guy he didn't handpick) then let him.
This may be a blessing in disguise, and the proper way to start from scratch.
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You're missing the point. It also means he'll take that into account in his evaluation of Rex
There's no imaginary number of wins set in stone to determine if Rex is fired
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You're missing the point. It also means he'll take that into account in his evaluation of Rex
Just because I see it differently than you doesn't mean I'm missing the point.
If this team tanks with (or without) Geno Smith, John Idzik has a way to separate himself from Rex Ryan and bring in his guy.
That buys him more time, not Ryan.
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It's not like Rex is giving the team a reason to keep him around. The offense seems to get worse every season and the defense hasn't been a complete unit for the past three seasons; there has always been at least one major problem with it.
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It's not like Rex is giving the team a reason to keep him around. The offense seems to get worse every season and the defense hasn't been a complete unit for the past three seasons; there has always been at least one major problem with it.
but Wilkerson and Richardson will lose all of their talent without Rex
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but Wilkerson and Richardson will lose all of their talent without Rex
Right, I forgot that Rex is the only talented defensive coordinator in the league.
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Right, I forgot that Rex is the only talented defensive coordinator in the league.
That's what I don't get. A lot of people are acting like it will be impossible to play great defense without Rex. Hell, we aren't even playing great defense with Rex.
Bring in an offensive minded head coach, and suddenly holding every team to a few field goals to get a win doesn't really matter much anymore.
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A head coach is supposed to be able to manage the entire team. Rex just can't do that. Didn't he even admit that he only focuses on the defense and gives Moringhweg complete autonomy? That's bullshit. We need someone who can manage both sides of the ball, special teams, everything.
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I'm still in favor of keeping Rex. There's a coach a few hours drive north of here who is a pretty good defensive coach who just happens to have one of the all time greatest QBs running his offense practically autonomously. I think they've won a title together, but I'm not certain.
Rex isn't the problem. While I still wouldn't say Schotty or Sporano did a good job, they weren't the biggest fault either. Neither is the offensive line. Or the "lack" of offensive targets to throw to.
The problem today, as it has been practically every year since Super Bowl 3, is mediocre to poor play under center.
I'm tired of everyone but the QB being blamed. Glennon's TD-to-INT ratio is the exact opposite of Geno's. Manuel beat the pee out of us. Being a rookie isn't an excuse. Having few weapons isn't either.
Tom Brady proved to me this year, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a truly good QB raises the talent of the guys around him, not the other way around.
Geno stinks. Get Cutler. Geno can back him up and maybe he'll pan out someday, but that time is not now.
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This is the first time since he's been hired that I feel indifferent about Rex being fired. Offense needs a tremendous amount of work. His clock/game management isn't improving -- we used all three timeouts by the start of the 4th, one of which was a classic Rex Rage timeout over a penalty that pissed him off.
A lot of his faults are definitely surfacing with a depleted roster. All in all I think he's done a great job when taking into account the QB struggles but he's partially to blame for the offensive woes.
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We need someone who can manage both sides of the ball, special teams, everything.
....
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....
What's wrong with my post? That's what a Head Coach is supposed to do: manage the football team. Not manage the defense. And I'm not talking about coaching. We need someone who can effectively manage all matters associated with what happens on the field.
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A head coach is supposed to be able to manage the entire team. Rex just can't do that. Didn't he even admit that he only focuses on the defense and gives Moringhweg complete autonomy? That's bullshit. We need someone who can manage both sides of the ball, special teams, everything.
I have no problem with a head coach who only handles one side of the team. I do, however, have a problem with that coach monopolizing the team's resources (draft picks and free agents) for his unit. And I have a very big problem with that coach when, even after he's robbed Peter to pay Paul for years, his unit still has glaring weaknesses.
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That's what I don't get. A lot of people are acting like it will be impossible to play great defense without Rex. Hell, we aren't even playing great defense with Rex.
Bring in an offensive minded head coach, and suddenly holding every team to a few field goals to get a win doesn't really matter much anymore.
Yea, because an offensive minded head coach would suddenly turn our dogshit offensive players into studs.
Waste a high 2nd round pick and force a bad QB onto the team so you have an excuse to fire a head coach you don't want. That's how to GM right there.
Blessing in disguise.
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Yea, because an offensive minded head coach would suddenly turn our dogshit offensive players into studs.
Waste a high 2nd round pick and force a bad QB onto the team so you have an excuse to fire a head coach you don't want. That's how to GM right there.
Blessing in disguise.
Uh-oh, now you've done it. Criticising Idzik isn't allowed round these parts.
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Uh-oh, now you've done it. Criticising Idzik isn't allowed round these parts.
I wasn't criticizing Idzik at all actually, I was criticizing Heismanberg with sarcasm. If that truly is what Idzik is doing, it would destroy my faith in him as the general manager of this team, but I don't believe that is what he is doing.
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Uh-oh, now you've done it. Criticising Idzik isn't allowed round these parts.
criticize Idzik all you want....but doing it after a single offseason where he had next to no cap space to work with, is a tad asinine.
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criticize Idzik all you want....
Thanks, I appreciate having your permission.
I've made no secret of the fact that I'm not wholly impressed with him so far, but even more than that my issue is with the fact that so many people on here seem to already know exactly what his thinking is, how his strategy works, and why every move he makes is a great one. He has roughly ten months of experience being an NFL GM, and yet he's already being anointed.
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He's just a bookkeeper who got the GM tag thrown on him 10 months ago
/JE
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Thanks, I appreciate having your permission.
I've made no secret of the fact that I'm not wholly impressed with him so far, but even more than that my issue is with the fact that so many people on here seem to already know exactly what his thinking is, how his strategy works, and why every move he makes is a great one. He has roughly ten months of experience being an NFL GM, and yet he's already being anointed.
So....with no cap space, you expected Idzik to magically turn this team into a Super Bowl contender in a single offseason? ok.
Nobody is annointing anybody....where do you get that excrement? You're throwing him under the bus before he's had a chance to make a significant impact. That takes more than one offseason, Russ. You should be smart enough to understand that.
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I'm not throwing him under the bus. I'm having the apparent temerity to criticise some of his moves so far.
The fact that you think he is above criticism for some of the things he has done so far kind of proves my point.
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Idzik didn't blow our entire cap on LaRon Landry. He sucks.
/JE
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Thanks, I appreciate having your permission.
I've made no secret of the fact that I'm not wholly impressed with him so far, but even more than that my issue is with the fact that so many people on here seem to already know exactly what his thinking is, how his strategy works, and why every move he makes is a great one. He has roughly ten months of experience being an NFL GM, and yet he's already being anointed.
Find someone to blame, and find someone to give you hope. That's what people like to do. The crowd here seems to have latched onto Rex as the guy to blame, and Idzik as the one to bring hope. I think Rex has done a lot of things to give you hope as well as some stuff that points to him as a problem. My personal feeling is that his positives outweigh his negatives, and I think that he is going to find success wherever he coaches if surrounded with the right players and assistant coaches. Hopefully Idzik can help him with that, but I agree that the jury should still be out on him.
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I'm not throwing him under the bus. I'm having the apparent temerity to criticise some of his moves so far.
The fact that you think he is above criticism for some of the things he has done so far kind of proves my point.
I never said he was above criticism.
Do you criticize new hires at your office on their 2nd or 3rd day on the job?
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I'm not throwing him under the bus. I'm having the apparent temerity to criticise some of his moves so far.
The fact that you think he is above criticism for some of the things he has done so far kind of proves my point.
You can't criticize him without pointing out the missed opportunities specifically. Tanny got criticism in 2011 for not bringing in a good enough WR and focusing way too much time and energy on Aso, which screwed our chances of signing key free agents.
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I never said he was above criticism.
Do you criticize new hires at your office on their 2nd or 3rd day on the job?
If they come with years of history working in great organisations and have managed to swing themselves the top job based upon those credentials, you'd better believe that they've got to be spot on with their every move from the start. My customers don't say, "Well, service has been a bit excrement and the product development has stalled badly, but I'll keep happily buying JE's product for a couple of years anyway because it's the new MD's first time having a go at the big job".
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If they come with years of history working in great organisations and have managed to swing themselves the top job based upon those credentials, you'd better believe that they've got to be spot on with their every move from the start. My customers don't say, "Well, service has been a bit excrement and the product development has stalled badly, but I'll keep happily buying JE's product for a couple of years anyway because it's the new MD's first time having a go at the big job".
except a football team doesn't work in the same manner as an office.
Long terms goals are valued significantly more than any short term gains and a football team doesn't need short "profit" to stay afloat as an organization
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except a football team doesn't work in the same manner as an office.
Tell MB that, I wasn't the one who introduced the analogy. Although I don't think it's an especially unreasonable one.
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Find someone to blame, and find someone to give you hope. That's what people like to do. The crowd here seems to have latched onto Rex as the guy to blame, and Idzik as the one to bring hope. I think Rex has done a lot of things to give you hope as well as some stuff that points to him as a problem. My personal feeling is that his positives outweigh his negatives, and I think that he is going to find success wherever he coaches if surrounded with the right players and assistant coaches. Hopefully Idzik can help him with that, but I agree that the jury should still be out on him.
I think it's largely a matter of seeing issues year in and year out that can be attributed to head coaching. A reliance on man coverage deep. A tendency to stick with 'his guys' regardless of success. Poor in game time management. A reliance on building around elite defensive talent rather than building up mediocre defensive talent (at the expense of the offense). A tendency to get blown out with spiraling disasters once or twice a year.
It's harder to criticize GMs anyway since we don't see them in real time, so to speak, but it's particularly impossible without any identifiable trends.
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Thanks, I appreciate having your permission.
I've made no secret of the fact that I'm not wholly impressed with him so far, but even more than that my issue is with the fact that so many people on here seem to already know exactly what his thinking is, how his strategy works, and why every move he makes is a great one. He has roughly ten months of experience being an NFL GM, and yet he's already being anointed.
That does seem a little premature.
In comparison, think of how many conclusions could have been drawn about Mike Tannenbaum after a year on the job:
"Never squanders money on free agents."
"Never overpays players with contract extensions."
"Builds through the draft!"
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That does seem a little premature.
In comparison, think of how many conclusions could have been drawn about Mike Tannenbaum after a year on the job:
"Never squanders money on free agents."
"Never overpays players with contract extensions."
"Builds through the draft!"
Game. Set. Match.
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Tell MB that, I wasn't the one who introduced the analogy. Although I don't think it's an especially unreasonable one.
The point i'm trying to make is that you're premature in making your assessment of Idzik. Especially when he didn't have much of a cap to work with in his first year.
The reason i keep harping on that, is because you're having a hard time accepting why L.Landry wasn't resigned, and subsequently blaming Idzik for it.
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The point i'm trying to make is that you're premature in making your assessment of Idzik. Especially when he didn't have much of a cap to work with in his first year.
The reason i keep harping on that, is because you're having a hard time accepting why L.Landry wasn't resigned, and subsequently blaming Idzik for it.
I haven't made an assessment of Idzik. I think he has not had a particularly impressive start. He might come good but as yet the signs are not, for my money, especially promising.
Taking Landry out of it, he still did a excrement job with free agency and a not especially impressive one with the draft.
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Yea, because an offensive minded head coach would suddenly turn our dogshit offensive players into studs.
It wasn't done intentionally, but it's not working out...and it doesn't hurt Idzik like it does Ryan. The GM needs to see what he has in this kid before he moves on. And he gets to move on.
After this regime, I have more faith in a coach that has an actual plan for that side of the ball.
There are these things called free agency and the draft that can do a lot to fix a dead offense. This team has plenty of resources to get better on offense.
Waste a high 2nd round pick and force a bad QB onto the team so you have an excuse to fire a head coach you don't want. That's how to GM right there.
Carolina wasted a high second rounder on Jimmy Clausen and look what it got them? As crappy as Jerry Richardson is, it allowed him and his franchise to separate themselves from an established head coach in John Fox and select a franchise QB.
The Jets aren't as bad as the Panthers were in 2010, but these situations are very similar.
They went through a tough stretch at QB after making a couple playoff appearances. Jake Delhomme, Vinny Testaverde, Matt Moore, and then Jimmy Clausen. It was time for them to move forward...
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I haven't made an assessment of Idzik. I think he has not had a particularly impressive start. He might come good but as yet the signs are not, for my money, especially promising.
Taking Landry out of it, he still did a excrement job with free agency and a not especially impressive one with the draft.
If you can't point out specific ways in which he could have done a better job, then you're basically just talking out of your arse.
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Taking Landry out of it, he still did a excrement job with free agency and a not especially impressive one with the draft.
We didn't need Sheldon Richardson, so he isn't good.
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We didn't need Sheldon Richardson, so he isn't good.
Which is not what I said, but you keep hanging on to his one successful move thus far (likely a heavily Ryan-influenced pick at that) as evidence of why he's doing a stellar job.
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If you can't point out specific ways in which he could have done a better job, then you're basically just talking out of your arse.
Already have done, but given you've contradicted yourself already on this thread quite spectacularly and not even realised it, Ima let this one go.
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I haven't made an assessment of Idzik. I think he has not had a particularly impressive start. He might come good but as yet the signs are not, for my money, especially promising.
Taking Landry out of it, he still did a excrement job with free agency and a not especially impressive one with the draft.
a excrement job with Free Agency? lol
there was no cap space, Russ.
cap space...cap space....cap space...cap space...cap space
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Mike Goodson
David Garrard
Stephen Peterman
Might as well have put the money we gave them behind the bar and bought all the fans a few pints, it would have had a more beneficial effect on the team.
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Already have done, but given you've contradicted yourself already on this thread quite spectacularly and not even realised it, Ima let this one go.
Don't distract from the fact that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here, and have already been proven completely wrong again and again.
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Which is not what I said, but you keep hanging on to his one successful move thus far (likely a heavily Ryan-influenced pick at that) as evidence of why he's doing a stellar job.
Do you expect all of these prospects to come in and play at an upper-tier level? I honestly want to know what your expectations are for rookies in the NFL. You told me that we made a mistake trying to compete this year, yet you're getting on the GM for taking a couple of guys that have to develop...
Dee Milliner and Geno Smith are playing the two toughest positions in the sport.
As bad as Smith's been, he's still a starter. Out of seven draft selections, Idzik found five starters. That's pretty successful in my book. And he traded another one for a guy that's probably been our best offensive player this year.
You also seem to think that Idzik needed to find a bunch of starters in the late rounds instead of players that made the roster to provide depth.
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No, Idzik just needs to magically fill every hole via Free Agency. It's exactly like Madden, as JE put it a while back.
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Mike Goodson
David Garrard
Stephen Peterman
Might as well have put the money we gave them behind the bar and bought all the fans a few pints, it would have had a more beneficial effect on the team.
Taking risks on buy low players like those means you get cheap stop-gap contributors like Willie Colon, Dawan Landry, and Kellen Winslow. Some of those types of signings will bust - which is why you can get them at a discount. We needed to fill multiple holes with a small amount of money, so getting a lot of potential contributors was a fine priority instead of using that money to sign one or two 'safe' contributors.
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Anyone who had huge expectations after the Free Agency period was going to be disappointed. I thought Idzik did a good job with what limited resources he had. Yeah, so some of his free agents didn't pan out, you get what you pay for in that regard.
Outside of Geno Smith, I though Idzik had a solid draft. I'm not ready to throw him under the bus for the Milliner pick yet. That kid is still learning.
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If Idzik filled multiple holes, JE would love him.
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LaRonLandry, SafePick?
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Carolina wasted a high second rounder on Jimmy Clausen and look what it got them? As crappy as Jerry Richardson is, it allowed him and his franchise to separate themselves from an established head coach in John Fox and select a franchise QB.
The Jets aren't as bad as the Panthers were in 2010, but these situations are very similar.
They went through a tough stretch at QB after making a couple playoff appearances. Jake Delhomme, Vinny Testaverde, Matt Moore, and then Jimmy Clausen. It was time for them to move forward...
My assumption is that Idzik thought Geno could be the answer, and it was worth the cost of giving him a chance. I don't think there is anything insidious going on to sabotage Rex, because I don't think that's a smart or necessary tactic.
Of course there is a chance that we lose all the rest of our games, Rex gets the axe, we hire a new coach and end up drafting one of the next great franchise QBs.. leading to a us watching a masterful offense and a decade of success. There also a better chance we bring in a new coach, invest more resources into a new QB who busts, and wallow in mediocrity for the next decade. Such is football.
I don't think Idzik should be pressuring Rex on who to put out on the field. Let Rex make the best decisions he can make to try to win football games, and if he is unhappy with the way he coached and the results he produced, find a new coach. Sacrificing wins when you are in the playoff hunt is not a strategy I am on board with.
I understand tanking for a high draft pick in basketball, where you truly can't compete and win a 7 game playoff series without superstars, but we've seen some crazy stuff happen in football where teams pretty much come out of nowhere. It's a 16 game season, and teams getting hot at the right time can lead to a Superbowl.
Look at both the Giants recent Superbowls. Neither time were they seen as real contenders until the playoffs got underway (which they barely even got into both years). Granted Eli and their offense is far better than anything we have, but a HUGE part of their first SB run was a dominant defensive line who hit their stride and imposed their will in the playoffs.
We are all pretty aware of the flaws with this roster, these coaches, and this franchise. We follow things a lot closer than most fans. But also remember, we have played the Patriots twice this year, and looked like equals on the field both times. The inconsistencies are maddening, but every single fan of a team without a true franchise QB (and even some with a franchise QB) see the same things just because of the parity/any given sunday nature of the sport.
One of the few things I feel semi comfortable saying is that this roster has no business competing with some of the teams we have competed with and even beat. Some of that may come down to the fact that Rex has pushed the team into focusing on defensive talent and players he likes or is comfortable with, but it's hard to know for sure.
Okay, so he wasted a 5th round pick on a fullback. That's funny and everything to point at as a failing, but Bellicheck has wasted probably 10 second round picks on busts in just the past 10 years. Drafting an extremely inexact science, just give this article a quick browse, http://deadspin.com/study-nfl-teams-have-no-idea-what-theyre-doing-in-the-1378701238 (http://deadspin.com/study-nfl-teams-have-no-idea-what-theyre-doing-in-the-1378701238)
I understand faulting Rex for things like penalties, clock management, challenges, etc... but it seems like people are assigning blame to him for things they have no way of even knowing who is at fault to fit their narrative.
I think faulting him for defensive game planning is pretty short sighted as well. He has had some masterful defensive games plans which have caused us to win games we had no business winning (pretty much every time we've beaten the patriots). We have a weak linebacking corps and a weak secondary. He's impressed me a lot with some of the things he's been able to do on that side of the ball. That's not to say the defense hasn't had bad games or he hasn't made mistakes, but again, that happens in football.
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I'm not taking sides for or against Idzik. It's far too early to tell, as it is for Geno and Milliner. The two rookie players are simply at the disadvantage of having been shoved head first into the deep end due to necessity.
Here's the one thing I'll say for Idzik that I never see anyone discuss. It's related to the cap space argument. Given that we had low cap space, and given that he did bring in a few players to help, he managed to also save enough in the piggy bank to keep this team afloat multiple times after injuries, bringing in more help.
Before anyone makes the argument that Greg Salas isn't getting millions, he's not playing for free either.
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I'm not taking sides for or against Idzik. It's far too early to tell, as it is for Geno and Milliner. The two rookie players are simply at the disadvantage of having been shoved head first into the deep end due to necessity.
Here's the one thing I'll say for Idzik that I never see anyone discuss. It's related to the cap space argument. Given that we had low cap space, and given that he did bring in a few players to help, he managed to also save enough in the piggy bank to keep this team afloat multiple times after injuries, bringing in more help.
Before anyone makes the argument that Greg Salas isn't getting millions, he's not playing for free either.
I think Idzik has done exactly what he's needed to do and i like the direction the organization is headed, but the last statement you made doesn't make sense. When you cut fringe players, they don't get their base salary for the rest of the season so you can use that salary on new fringe players. It happens with every GM around the league. For guys like salas making the minimum, this is something any team can do
Most of the guys making 600k or whatever minimum have insanely small signing bonuses and are paid every week they're on the active roster. Once they're cut they're gone and so is their cap #
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I think Idzik has done exactly what he's needed to do and i like the direction the organization is headed, but the last statement you made doesn't make sense. When you cut fringe players, they don't get their base salary for the rest of the season so you can use that salary on new fringe players. It happens with every GM around the league. For guys like salas making the minimum, this is something any team can do
Most of the guys making 600k or whatever minimum have insanely small signing bonuses and are paid every week they're on the active roster. Once they're cut they're gone and so is their cap #
Yes, I get that these aren't major salaries, but the Jets were looking at being over the cap this year and somehow Idzik managed to bring some guys in through FA, pay the rookies (thank you rookie scale), and still have some wiggle room. We could have even more practice squad level guys right now.
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Idzik is rebuilding the foundation and will inevitably gut the weak links. I'd like to see him build this team from the trenches out. Once the lines are in place we can start to fill out the skill positions and work at finding a long-term answer at QB. Geno hasn't played well but its not fair to entirely pin this on him. The protection has been terrible and talent at WR laughable.
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This Smith pick was pointless because we don't have the pieces in place to support a developmental QB.
2014 is the year to bring one in. We have cap space and draft picks to build around whoever it may be.
Smith could very well be a lost cause because he was baptised by fire...and it looks like he's dying in the fire
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Our DL is the only unit on our team playing well, because that's where the elite talent is. Rex Ryan has something to do with that, but not a lot.
Ryan is responsible for this mess now that Mike Tannenbaum is gone. All of the blame cannot be placed on the former GM. Ryan was partly in-charge of putting this roster together too.
Instead of worrying about building on both sides, he basically said:
"Sign all of the Ravens castoffs"
and
"I get one pick every year, lemme take a fullback. That will fix the offense! More runs!"
Not directed at you, but 3-4 weeks ago the story was how if Ryan could take a team low on talent to the playoffs, Ryan was a genius for getting so much out of so little. It's pretty apparent that our offense is holding out team back, but like someone said, if we had Aaron Rodgers, our offense would be fine and Rex would look like a great coach.
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Idzik is rebuilding the foundation and will inevitably gut the weak links. I'd like to see him build this team from the trenches out. Once the lines are in place we can start to fill out the skill positions and work at finding a long-term answer at QB. Geno hasn't played well but its not fair to entirely pin this on him. The protection has been terrible and talent at WR laughable.
Yes, this exactly.
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Not directed at you, but 3-4 weeks ago the story was how if Ryan could take a team low on talent to the playoffs, Ryan was a genius for getting so much out of so little. It's pretty apparent that our offense is holding out team back, but like someone said, if we had Aaron Rodgers, our offense would be fine and Rex would look like a great coach.
He's not getting a lot out of a little. This is a four to six win ball club.
The best players on our team (the defensive linemen) are dominating - that's expected. The rest of the team is hot garbage. We have one of the best centers ever on our roster and even he's having a mediocre season.
2013's offseason was just a bandaid type of situation. Almost everyone Idzik signed will be gone in the offseason, and Goodson will probably get released too.
In 2014, Idzik will have the cap space to gut this roster now. It's all about getting rid of Mike Tannenbaum's bad contracts and building from there.
And everyone knows that we don't have Aaron Rodgers or anything close to him at QB. It's why this team needs to bring in someone different.
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And everyone knows that we don't have Aaron Rodgers or anything close to him at QB. It's why this team needs to bring in someone different.
A different QB, for sure...
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And everyone knows that we don't have Aaron Rodgers or anything close to him at QB. It's why this team needs to bring in someone different.
This is your one opinion that just makes no sense to me. The rest of the can Rex Ryan stuff i understand, I just don't agree with.
This one I don't get. Essentially what you are saying is, because the two QB's we have drafted aren't Future HOFers, we need to replace Rex.
I just don't get it. If the guys we drafted became good, we would be just fine. But they didnt so thats football.
There are a lot of reasons why you may want Rex replaced, that just doesn't seem like a good one.
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This is your one opinion that just makes no sense to me. The rest of the can Rex Ryan stuff i understand, I just don't agree with.
This one I don't get. Essentially what you are saying is, because the two QB's we have drafted aren't Future HOFers, we need to replace Rex.
I just don't get it. If the guys we drafted became good, we would be just fine. But they didnt so thats football.
There are a lot of reasons why you may want Rex replaced, that just doesn't seem like a good one.
We haven't had a passing game in five seasons. In the end, that falls on Rex Ryan. He opted to keep Brian Schottenheimer, he decided to replace him with Tony Sparano, and then he went to Marty Mornhinweg.
Three strikes...
The two players we've drafted didn't need to be future Hall of Famers. They just needed to be decent...and we didn't even get that.
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Mornihnweg hasn't been a failure. He has tried to overcome the shityness of our QB and our receiving corps. At least, he's trying, and he's been creative. Shotty and Sparano were just excrement.
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Mornihnweg hasn't been a failure. He has tried to overcome the shityness of our QB and our receiving corps. At least, he's trying, and he's been creative. Shotty and Sparano were just excrement.
i agree with this.
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We haven't had a passing game in five seasons. In the end, that falls on Rex Ryan. He opted to keep Brian Schottenheimer, he decided to replace him with Tony Sparano, and then he went to Marty Mornhinweg.
Three strikes...
The two players we've drafted didn't need to be future Hall of Famers. They just needed to be decent...and we didn't even get that.
you want to blame rex for sanchez, thats fine, its well documented he was very involved in that pick.
but the geno smith pick, can't be both ways. it cant be an indication of rex's shittyness, while simultaneously being an indication Idzik is drafting on his own, without rex's real input. its one or the other, and i think its the latter rather than the former
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We haven't had a passing game in five seasons. In the end, that falls on Rex Ryan. He opted to keep Brian Schottenheimer, he decided to replace him with Tony Sparano, and then he went to Marty Mornhinweg.
Three strikes...
The two players we've drafted didn't need to be future Hall of Famers. They just needed to be decent...and we didn't even get that.
I'm sorry but did 2010 and 2011 not happen? How do you know that Schotty was Rex's own decision and not forced to keep him? And how is Marty Mornhinweg already labeled as a strike after 11 games to the season? Rex is quickly becoming the scapegoat here, now that Tanny is not here.
Everything you and others have blamed Tannenbaum about are now suddenly solely Rex's fault. I'm with Libero here, E you have valid points about Rex's HC incapabilities, but your starting to grasp at straws here. It's getting to the point where Rex is to blame for global warming and the murder of JFK.
I'm not as high on Rex as I used to be and like I said a couple of weeks ago, his stay here for the future should be evaluated after the season is over. None of that has changed towards any direction, although if Geno continues to excrement the bed and Simms doesn't get a chance to start while were still in the playoff race, it will make me sour on Rex quickly. I do think as the HC it is his call who the starting QB is and will be, at least it should be his call. And if there is any truth to the mantra of competition and accountability by Idzik, that's the way it should be.
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And how is Marty Mornhinweg already labeled as a strike after 11 games to the season?
Even weirder considering how he was considered a success after 9 games into the season.
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I'm sorry but did 2010 and 2011 not happen? How do you know that Schotty was Rex's own decision and not forced to keep him? And how is Marty Mornhinweg already labeled as a strike after 11 games to the season? Rex is quickly becoming the scapegoat here, now that Tanny is not here.
Everything you and others have blamed Tannenbaum about are now suddenly solely Rex's fault. I'm with Libero here, E you have valid points about Rex's HC incapabilities, but your starting to grasp at straws here. It's getting to the point where Rex is to blame for global warming and the murder of JFK.
I'm not as high on Rex as I used to be and like I said a couple of weeks ago, his stay here for the future should be evaluated after the season is over. None of that has changed towards any direction, although if Geno continues to excrement the bed and Simms doesn't get a chance to start while were still in the playoff race, it will make me sour on Rex quickly. I do think as the HC it is his call who the starting QB is and will be, at least it should be his call. And if there is any truth to the mantra of competition and accountability by Idzik, that's the way it should be.
Can't agree with the bolded more. All of those reasons are great, and exactly why Tannenbaum was fired. those sins have been accounted for and blamed on Tannenbaum. Now Rex isn't blameless, but he really needs to be evaluated on getting the most out of this roster this year, because in January his previous record was considered good enough to stick around. So this decision needs to be made end of year, based on how this year played out.
I still believe in Rex, and think he can take a team all the way. I can see why others may no longer believe that, but I still do, and as long as I believe that, I want him coaching my team. That said his choices and the way the QB situation is handled going forwards, will really impact that decision about bringing Rex back a year from now.
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Even weirder considering how he was considered a success after 9 games into the season.
There is this point too. Hell the gameplan MM had for Sunday against the Ravens was great, if Geno hits the damn pass to the open Holmes in the endzone, the game never gets out of hand IMO.
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Mornihnweg hasn't been a failure. He has tried to overcome the shityness of our QB and our receiving corps. At least, he's trying, and he's been creative. Shotty and Sparano were just excrement.
I could say the same thing for Brian Schottenheimer. He was trying and he was creative.
Things are actually going pretty well for him in St. Louis.
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There is this point too. Hell the gameplan MM had for Sunday against the Ravens was great, if Geno hits the damn pass to the open Holmes in the endzone, the game never gets out of hand IMO.
One drive was great, and it was loaded with Wildcat and super conservative playcalling. That's not Marty Mornhinweg's ideal offense.
A lot of that wasn't creative at all. He called a single boot action and the Jets ran the ball down Baltimore's throat...
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Even weirder considering how he was considered a success after 9 games into the season.
I didn't consider him a success. The passing offense has been solid in maybe three games.
He deserves some slack because of what he has to work with, but he's doing a lot of the same things that made Philadelphia move on from him.
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I'm sorry but did 2010 and 2011 not happen?
wut?
23rd ranked passing offense in 2010 and 24th in 2011
How do you know that Schotty was Rex's own decision and not forced to keep him?
He wanted to retain him in 2009. He said things about feeling for him after the Jets passed him over for the head coaching job.
And how is Marty Mornhinweg already labeled as a strike after 11 games to the season?
This isn't his first go round...
Rex is quickly becoming the scapegoat here, now that Tanny is not here.
It's on him. He's the guy in charge. This is his roster that he was partly responsible for since 2009.
Everything you and others have blamed Tannenbaum about are now suddenly solely Rex's fault. I'm with Libero here, E you have valid points about Rex's HC incapabilities, but your starting to grasp at straws here. It's getting to the point where Rex is to blame for global warming and the murder of JFK.
I blamed Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan. I wish we had those old posts. I have always complained about him being a one-sided coach that seems uninterested in the offense.
Just because I'm not defending a guy that's been a mediocre defensive coach for two seasons doesn't mean I'm grasping at something.
I'm not as high on Rex as I used to be and like I said a couple of weeks ago, his stay here for the future should be evaluated after the season is over. None of that has changed towards any direction, although if Geno continues to excrement the bed and Simms doesn't get a chance to start while were still in the playoff race, it will make me sour on Rex quickly. I do think as the HC it is his call who the starting QB is and will be, at least it should be his call. And if there is any truth to the mantra of competition and accountability by Idzik, that's the way it should be.
Ryan is going to go down with the ship. I was honestly surprised when Idzik stuck with him.
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Libero will defend anyone from 2009 until the very last possible second. Seen it with Sanchez, now Ryan.
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Why is Rex Ryan's slate wiped clean because we fired Mike Tannenbaum?
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I could say the same thing for Brian Schottenheimer. He was trying and he was creative.
Things are actually going pretty well for him in St. Louis.
he was the OC on the biggest hot seat for the first 8-9 games of the season. He was getting ripped by everyone for not using Tavon Austin...or knowing how to use him. he was puling the same bullshit
Zac Stacy basically saved his job.
going well?
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he was the OC on the biggest hot seat for the first 8-9 games of the season.
Zac Stacy basically saved his job.
going well?
The last 2-3 weeks count more
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Schotty isn't creative. he's freaking predictable as they come
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Kellen Clemens is his QB
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Apparently, Schottenheimer doesnt get credit for designing runs for Zac Stacy....
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Schotty is just hot and cold. He's always had the ability to call brilliant games (like in the playoffs) but also dreadful ones.
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Schotty is just hot and cold. He's always had the ability to call brilliant games (like in the playoffs) but also dreadful ones.
Just like the passing game for a quarterback, there's definitely a rhythm to playcalling.
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Apparently, Schottenheimer doesnt get credit for designing runs for Zac Stacy....
It's your birthday, so i'll refrain from smart derriere comments.
happy birthday buddy
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It's your birthday, so i'll refrain from smart derriere comments.
happy birthday buddy
Come on it's MR. E you think he would hold back on you? JFIF I never figured you for a total complete useless hoo-ha.
OK I am lying about the total complete part.
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Schotty is just hot and cold. He's always had the ability to call brilliant games (like in the playoffs) but also dreadful ones.
http://youtu.be/kTHNpusq654
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wut?
23rd ranked passing offense in 2010 and 24th in 2011
The rankings might not be flattering but it doesn't mean we didn't have a passing game. The Jets moved the ball well enough through the air in 2010 and '11. It was nothing like most of 2012 or the last few games with Geno.
This isn't his first go round...
It is with the Jets, and he has an impressive resume as an OC. Again, there is no way he is labeled a strike after 11 games with a 5-6 record and sub-par talent on the offensive side of the ball.
It's on him. He's the guy in charge. This is his roster that he was partly responsible for since 2009.
I blamed Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan. I wish we had those old posts. I have always complained about him being a one-sided coach that seems uninterested in the offense.
It's not on him. He didn't draft all the players in that shitty span of 2008-2010. He didn't let Braylon walk after 2010. He didn't give shitty contracts to Sanchez, Revis and Harris.
Also, I hate when people say that he is a one-side coach, who is uninterested in the other side of the ball which isn't of his expertise. Is Sean Payton or Mike McCarthy micromanaging their defenses or Mike Tomlin his offense? No, they are successful head coaches in football, yet I doubt Payton stays up at night devising blitz packages how to stop the opposing QB. Nor do I think Mike Tomlin has put much time, if any, into setting up a two minute offense for Big Ben.
The reason these guys are considered good or great HCs is because they have a Super Bowl ring and much of that success is because they have a franchise quarterback under center. Not because they handle both sides of the ball extraordinarily well.
Ryan is going to go down with the ship. I was honestly surprised when Idzik stuck with him.
I'm guessing he had no choice. Itwas probably a condition in Idzik's hiring that he keeps Ryan as the head coach.
I think it was the right move.
Why is Rex Ryan's slate wiped clean because we fired Mike Tannenbaum?
Because this isn't soccer. The HC isn't the manager, he is not responsible for contract talks, drafting or signing free agents. We are where we are in terms of the roster because of shitty drafting and poor contracts. Again, as I said, Rex shouldn't be blamed of Tannenbaum's mistakes. Rex has enough of his own faults that can be pinned on him.
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The HC isn't the manager, he is not responsible for contract talks, drafting or signing free agents. We are where we are in terms of the roster because of shitty drafting and poor contracts.
Rex Ryan has had a SUBSTANTIAL influence on this team's personnel.
Remember Joy Clinkscales, our former scouting guru? He left the organization classily and quietly, after Rex Ryan guaranteed sack artist Quinton Coples that the Jets would draft him in the 2012 draft.
All-pro receiver Santonio Holmes is on this team because Rex Ryan burst into Mike Tannenbaum's office and demanded him, a story they both proudly shared with the media in 2010.
How about the full court press the Jets FO launched on Nnamdi Asomugha following the 2011 lockout, eschewing pursuit of any and all other key free agents so that Rex could have two $15 million cornerbacks on the field? (In hindsight... thank freaking GOD for the Iggles...)
Not to mention:
Ed Reed.
Dawan Landry.
Bart Scott.
Jim Leonhard.
Derrick Mason.
Drafting a defensive player in the first round FIVE consecutive times.
Rex Ryan is responsible for none of these moves, right?
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Sanchez expects Jets return: ‘All I’m thinking about’
By Brian Costello
November 26, 2013 | 1:11pm
If Mark Sanchez gets his way, he’ll return to the Jets in 2014.
“It’s been a dream come true to play here, and I don’t want to go anywhere else,” Sanchez said Tuesday. “I know I have two years left [on his contract — it’s actually three], and I don’t ever want that to end. I love being a Jet, and I plan on being here.”
Sanchez spoke to reporters for the first time since undergoing season-ending surgery on a torn labrum in his right shoulder last month. Sanchez donated and was serving lunch at the Community Soup Kitchen in Morristown, N.J.
Sanchez’s salary cap number for 2014 is $13.1 million, making it seem likely the team will cut him in the offseason for a cap savings of $8.3 million. But Sanchez said he expects to be back next season.
“Absolutely,” Sanchez said. “I know I’ve heard a lot of stuff on the outside about me not being here, but I don’t know if that’s necessarily the case in the building. So hopefully not. Hopefully I’m a Jet. That’s what I am, that’s what I want to be.”
The 27-year-old said he has had no conversations with Jets management about his future because it’s too soon, but he wants to return.
“That’s all I’m thinking about, is coming back next year and leading this team, playing well,” Sanchez said. “We’ll see what happens.”
Sanchez said his rehabilitation from the injury is going well and he expects to return to full strength. He would not provide any timeline for when he could resume throwing again, but said the recovery process from this surgery generally is 4-6 months. Sanchez said he is not rushing anything because he can’t return this season.
“The way things are coming along it sounds like I’ll be bionic,” Sanchez said.
He has split his time among New Jersey, his home in California and locations near the offices of Dr. James Andrews in Alabama and Florida. Sanchez said it has been a strange feeling being away from football.
“It’s different, and something I don’t wish on anybody, not even on your worst enemy,” he said. “It’s hard to be away. It’s hard to not be in the locker room, be on the plane, be on the bus, little things like that you just miss it so much.”
New York Post (http://nypost.com/2013/11/26/sanchez-expects-jets-return-i-plan-on-being-here/)
We'll want to re-do the cap number but I wouldn't be opposed to having him as an option. I'm sure we'll look at all the other avenues as always, due diligence, etc (yay!) but why the freak not?
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New York Post (http://nypost.com/2013/11/26/sanchez-expects-jets-return-i-plan-on-being-here/)
We'll want to re-do the cap number but I wouldn't be opposed to having him as an option. I'm sure we'll look at all the other avenues as always, due diligence, etc (yay!) but why the freak not?
It's all about the $$$ in my eyes. For the right price (somewhere around more than $10M less than he's getting now) I'd have no problem with him returning.
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It's all about the $$$ in my eyes. For the right price (somewhere around more than $10M less than he's getting now) I'd have no problem with him returning.
Well we'd eat 5 million if we cut him. So if we gave him just that 5-6 million for one year that wouldn't be so bad.
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Well we'd eat 5 million if we cut him. So if we gave him just that 5-6 million for one year that wouldn't be so bad.
They'd have to restructure him though, which he'd be crazy not to accept. Ah freak. I really hope it doesn't come to that.
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Well we'd eat 5 million if we cut him. So if we gave him just that 5-6 million for one year that wouldn't be so bad.
I'm thinking something along those lines could be worked out. It's not like we've filled the job and can eat $5 million to be rid of him, and I don't see him commanding big bucks off a throwing shoulder injury and two bad seasons before that.
It's the same basic situation we had with Chad Pennington in 2006. We need as many QBs as possible and hope one can do the job, he needs to go somewhere he can win a job, preferring to stay with the Jets.
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I'm thinking something along those lines could be worked out. It's not like we've filled the job and can eat $5 million to be rid of him, and I don't see him commanding big bucks off a throwing shoulder injury and two bad seasons before that.
It's the same basic situation we had with Chad Pennington in 2006. We need as many QBs as possible and hope one can do the job, he needs to go somewhere he can win a job, preferring to stay with the Jets.
Giving Sanchez 5-6 million would put the Jets on the hook for 10-11 million in cap implications. The 4.8 million is strictly cap accounting, and is for the remaining balance of his signing bonus. IIRC, you guys are assuming the 4.8 million will just disappear if he restructures for 5-6 million, which isn't the case from a cap implication stand point.
Edit: Assumes he is on the roster the whole year under the restructured contract.
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Well that's refreshing/what the freak Tannenbaum.
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Then obviously the answer would be restructuring for less than $5-6M.
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What the freak is wrong with this guy like honestly..
I get that he loves the team and the organization but it's definitely in the guy's best interest to sign with someone who's media won't excrement all over him for poor play. He's got a very fragile mindset and the media jackals are gonna be all over him if he agrees to return at a much lower salary.
He did some good things for the team but in the end we ruined him and he couldn't adapt to having virtually no talent around him.
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This is a classic "what else do you expect him to say?"
"Honestly I can't wait to get out of here. New Yorkers are faggots and their pizza sucks."
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It's just the fact that he seems so enthusiastic about playing here.
If he didn't want to actually play here I would expect something along the lines of, "Well I'm not really looking too far into the future and we'll make those decisions in the off season."
But this guy can't wait to step back onto the field in green and white.
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Why wouldn't he be excited about making 13 million a year?
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Libero will defend anyone from 2009 until the very last possible second. Seen it with Sanchez, now Ryan.
No I will not defend everybody from 09. But in the case of Sanchez I was saying its in our best interest to give him this year and see if it works, if not we have a high pick in 2014 to get a top prospect for the future. If if it does, then we have a top 5 pick playing like a franchise QB.
Instead we took Geno Smith forced him into action at least a season early, and now we have a more or less wasted second round pick that could have been used to fix the offense and we still need a QB.
As for Rex, my thoughts on him are well documented, and I still have faith in him.
But there are a whole lot of guys from the 09-10 seasons I am happy are long gone. Sorry I don't fit your narrative so well.
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It's just the fact that he seems so enthusiastic about playing here.
If he didn't want to actually play here I would expect something along the lines of, "Well I'm not really looking too far into the future and we'll make those decisions in the off season."
But this guy can't wait to step back onto the field in green and white.
The range of musical productions available to see in Jacksonville on any given day is disappointing.
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But there are a whole lot of guys from the 09-10 seasons I am happy are long gone. Sorry I don't fit your narrative so well.
Why do you love Eric Smith so much?
The range of musical productions available to see in Jacksonville on any given day is disappointing.
(http://wooville.0catch.com/HopshawNipper/hopshaw1.jpg)
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After watching November 2013, I would happily welcome Mark back into the QB competition in 2014. He would have little chance starting anywhere else, and it would allow us to get a WR in round one and grab a 1st round grade (in any other year) QB in round 2 or 3 of the draft. We need a blue chip WR on this team, and with everyone grabbing QB's before us, one might just fall in our laps.
Obviously Sanchez would have to restructure mightily (vet min plus incentives), but if he is serious about staying here he would do so. He already has more money than any of us would ever know how to spend, and a bad reputation, so why not?
Sanchez/Geno/Rookie/Simms fighting it out in the offseason... Sadly, we could do alot worse.
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Sanchez/Geno/Rookie/Simms fighting it out in the offseason... Sadly, we could do alot worse.
No way. That's likely the worst QB situation in the entire league
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No way. That's likely the worst QB situation in the entire league
The alternative being what? Besides maybe grabbing a journeyman vet it's not going to look very different from what he proposed.
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The alternative being what? Besides maybe grabbing a journeyman vet it's not going to look very different from what he proposed.
Referencing the "could be worse bit"
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Referencing the "could be worse bit"
Gotcha. Assuming the Jags are in position for a blue chip QB prospect in 2014, we would probably have the worst group.
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Nah, there are lots of similar situations in the league right now. Bills, Raiders, Houston, to think of a few.
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No I will not defend everybody from 09. But in the case of Sanchez I was saying its in our best interest to give him this year and see if it works, if not we have a high pick in 2014 to get a top prospect for the future. If if it does, then we have a top 5 pick playing like a franchise QB.
Instead we took Geno Smith forced him into action at least a season early, and now we have a more or less wasted second round pick that could have been used to fix the offense and we still need a QB.
As for Rex, my thoughts on him are well documented, and I still have faith in him.
But there are a whole lot of guys from the 09-10 seasons I am happy are long gone. Sorry I don't fit your narrative so well.
Dunno. You're one of the board's biggest Sanchez supporters.
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Nah, there are lots of similar situations in the league right now. Bills, Raiders, Houston, to think of a few.
How I currently see it:
QBs of the future: Manuel/Keenum > McGloin > Smith/Pryor
Vets: Schaub/Kolb > Sanchez
"Other Guys": Yates > Lewis > Simms > Tuel
These teams are more or less in the same boat but we have the worst QB group among them.
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It's absolutely ridiculous that Matt McGloin looks better than Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson right now...
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Dunno. You're one of the board's biggest Sanchez supporters.
Considering that there is about 2-3 of them on the board, it's not that hard.
Also can you honestly say he doesn't look like the best option we had all along this season?
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Considering that there is about 2-3 of them on the board, it's not that hard.
Also can you honestly say he doesn't look like the best option we had all along this season?
I'll admit that I was wrong about that, but it may end up being better for us in the long run. Another 2012 or 2011 with Sanchez would've sucked.
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I'll admit that I was wrong about that, but it may end up being better for us in the long run. Another 2012 or 2011 with Sanchez would've sucked.
We're basically in the same situation with a shittier quarterback.
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Two weeks ago Manuel was way shittier than Smith, not to talk when they faced each other in our tailgate game. They are young and not ridiculously talented, so very prone to ups and downs. I don't see any of them to be good in the long run but it's impossible to tell if one is better than the other at the moment.
How I currently see it:
QBs of the future: Manuel/Keenum > McGloin > Smith/Pryor
Vets: Schaub/Kolb > Sanchez
"Other Guys": Yates > Lewis > Simms > Tuel
These teams are more or less in the same boat but we have the worst QB group among them.
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Two weeks ago Manuel was way shittier than Smith, not to talk when they faced each other in our tailgate game. They are young and not ridiculously talented, so very prone to ups and downs. I don't see any of them to be good in the long run but it's impossible to tell if one is better than the other at the moment.
Manuel is taking care of the football.
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Two weeks ago Manuel was way shittier than Smith, not to talk when they faced each other in our tailgate game. They are young and not ridiculously talented, so very prone to ups and downs. I don't see any of them to be good in the long run but it's impossible to tell if one is better than the other at the moment.
I only meant for it to be a perspective of how they all look right now, and I think it's a pretty accurate one. And I think the body of work for the rookies is a lot bigger now than it was in week 3.
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Geno has starting shitting the bed for real since three games ago. I would say that besides his obvious football problems, the bigger one at this point is mental. I remember last game, when he threw that horrendous pass that Santonio somehow turned into a catch, I thought "Even I could complete that one". He's missing even the easiest ones, and that's not a mechanics problem but a mental one. Let's be clear that I'm not defending his talent, I'd have preferred Sanchez but potentially he should be better than this.
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So...
Is Simms going to get a shot down the stretch? We're not making the playoffs, so should he get a shot with a full week of practicing with the first team?
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So...
Is Simms going to get a shot down the stretch? We're not making the playoffs, so should he get a shot with a full week of practicing with the first team?
Yes
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So...
Is Simms going to get a shot down the stretch? We're not making the playoffs, so should he get a shot with a full week of practicing with the first team?
considering he moved the ball, and Geno hasn't in weeks, I vote yes.
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considering he moved the ball, and Geno hasn't in weeks, I vote yes.
I agree that most if not everyone on this site would vote yes. Just wondering if the team will do it.
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Simms sucks too. This is not going to get better with either of them.
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Leave Geno in and let's tank the rest of the way. freak it.
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Matt Simms should be the starter for the next few games. I'm also 100% certain that the Matt Simms trajectory will look exactly like the Geno Smith trajectory: Some early success followed by a steep drop-off as he encounters poor pass protection combined with zero open receivers who drop the ball on the rare occasion when they are open.
This offense is simply a wasteland.
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Cutler is looking better and better as an option.
Sign Cutler, replace Holmes with Nicks, draft a receiver in the first round, and this offense looks better already.
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Cutler is looking better and better as an option.
Sign Cutler, replace Holmes with Nicks, draft a receiver in the first round, and this offense looks better already.
Chicago will franchise Cutler before he even gets a shot at free agency.
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Chicago will franchise Cutler before he even gets a shot at free agency.
So what? He's worth the pick and the money.
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So what? He's worth the pick and the money.
Compared to what we currently have and the crap shoot that a rookie QB is, I concur.
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So what? He's worth the pick and the money.
except for a franchised player is 2 #1's and all the money you owe him.
might as well trade up to secure whatever QB you want to throw the franchises hopes behind, at least that guy will have more than a 3 year window which Cutler's age/price tag would ensure we are stuck trying to win within
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I don't know if Cutler is worth two #1s.
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I don't know if Cutler is worth two #1s.
A first and a third maybe, and even then you better hope Idzik brings in a decent receiver or else it would pretty much be a wasted trade.
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Cutler would be a turnover machine in our offense too.
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I don't know if Cutler is worth two #1s.
Exactly, can't rebuild the rest of the offense without decent draft picks. So giving all that up for a guy with 3 maybe 4 years left at his current level of play (which still isn't top 5 QB btw) is really not worth 2 #1's.
There are people here who argue whether trading up for a legit QB prospect with his entire career ahead of him is worth 2 #1's.
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I don't know if Cutler is worth two #1s.
remember when Chicago gave up 2 1st round picks and a neckbeard for Cutler......that didn't get them very far either.
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Exactly, can't rebuild the rest of the offense without decent draft picks. So giving all that up for a guy with 3 maybe 4 years left at his current level of play (which still isn't top 5 QB btw) is really not worth 2 #1's.
There are people here who argue whether trading up for a legit QB prospect with his entire career ahead of him is worth 2 #1's.
If our offense was more complete and the only thing we were missing was a QB, I could see pulling the trigger. But we just have too many holes to give up that much. We'd have to go absolutely nuts in FA to make up for it.
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If our offense was more complete and the only thing we were missing was a QB, I could see pulling the trigger. But we just have too many holes to give up that much. We'd have to go absolutely nuts in FA to make up for it.
Which of course (2 years from now) would put us exactly where we were two years ago after the 2010 season. Old, broke and with bad contracts all over the place, and one POS unit, while we still had one very good one carrying the team.
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So what? He's worth the pick and the money.
Isn't the consensus opinion to take Cutler so that we don't need to give up a draft pick? If we are going to use 2 first rounders, trade up, and keep the salary down.
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Isn't the consensus opinion to take Cutler so that we don't need to give up a draft pick? If we are going to use 2 first rounders, trade up, and keep the salary down.
Yeah, if we're going to give up two first rounders for a quarterback, it better be for a franchise caliber prospect like Teddy Bridgewater or Derek Carr.
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AJ McCarron is the guy I want the most. I'm not entirely impressed with Bridgewater or Manziel or Boyd. I love Hundley as a prospect and am very intrigued by Petty. Mettenberger has a big arm, but I don't believe he is a player who can lead a franchise to championships.
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1. Birdgewater
2. Carr
3. McCarron
4. Boyd
5. Manziel/Petty
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I'm just excited that Geno will not be in the future plans.
Give me anyone else. I don't care if it's Kliff Kingsbury.
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I'm just excited that Geno will not be in the future plans.
Give me anyone else. I don't care if it's Kliff Kingsbury.
He's occupied at the moment.
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AJ McCarron is the guy I want the most. I'm not entirely impressed with Bridgewater or Manziel or Boyd. I love Hundley as a prospect and am very intrigued by Petty. Mettenberger has a big arm, but I don't believe he is a player who can lead a franchise to championships.
Someone is missing from this post and he's arguably the best one (Derek Carr).
Is anyone still impressed with Tajh Boyd? I've been saying it all season. He's a mid-round prospect that plays in a good system.
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Cutler is looking better and better as an option.
Sign Cutler, replace Holmes with Nicks, draft a receiver in the first round, and this offense looks better already.
The idea of signing Hakeem "Mr. Glass" Nicks makes me want to shoot myself in the face. Nicks doesn't deserve the contract that the #1 receiver in the open market will get.
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1. Birdgewater
2. Carr
3. McCarron
4. Boyd
5. Manziel/Petty
Bold needs to be moved to about 8 or 9.
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Someone is missing from this post and he's arguably the best one (Derek Carr).
Is anyone still impressed with Tajh Boyd? I've been saying it all season. He's a mid-round prospect that plays in a good system.
The FSU game kind of ruined him for me. Haven't looked at him the same way since.
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The FSU game kind of ruined him for me. Haven't looked at him the same way since.
Clemson plays maybe two solid defenses a year - this year they were Florida State and South Carolina.
He gets extremely rattled by pressure and if the screen game disappears, he becomes extremely average and beatable.
A lot of what he does reminds me of the things I didn't like about Geno Smith when he was at West Virginia. They are players that absolutely cannot play in certain schemes and they need playmakers around them.
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I'm in the "no way you give up draft picks for a short term QB when you're years from a title run" boat. I'm all for pursuing Cutler if he isn't franchised. If it's all about the money, pay the man. If you have to trade for him, I'd rather trade up in round 1 and groom a future.
If the Jets pursue Nicks I might get violent.
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If the Jets pursue Nicks I might get violent.
Sure he gets hurt a lot and he's had a few so-so seasons in a row, but he's still averaging almost 15 yards a catch and his demands will have to be a little smaller after the production dip.
This team needs all the help it can get at the position.
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Sure he gets hurt a lot and he's had a few so-so seasons in a row, but he's still averaging almost 15 yards a catch and his demands will have to be a little smaller after the production dip.
This team needs all the help it can get at the position.
This team needs all the help at WR it can get but Nicks isn't the answer. If we are going to rag on JE for wanting Landry at 6 mill a year I think it's pretty hypocritical to want Nicks here at a cost that might be greater.
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This team needs all the help at WR it can get but Nicks isn't the answer. If we are going to rag on JE for wanting Landry at 6 mill a year I think it's pretty hypocritical to want Nicks here at a cost that might be greater.
Why is he going to make that much money?
I think Hakeem Nicks will have to sign a "show-me" deal.
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Why is he going to make that much money?
I think Hakeem Nicks will have to sign a "show-me" deal.
You think he signs a "show-me" deal with this team? He would be a freaking idiot if he did that. This team is so far from fielding a competitive offense that any in demand FA would be nuts to sign here on a show me deal. That would be idiotic. At least with Landry (the epitome of a show me deal) he was a defensive player signing with arguably the best defensive mind in the NFL.
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You think he signs a "show-me" deal with this team?
If we bring in a head coach that tells him: "hey, we're going to force you the ball..." then he just might.
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arguably the best defensive mind in the NFL.
This is getting old. He's not.
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This is getting old. He's not.
It's getting old, he is.
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freak Hakeem Nicks. You know who else is a free agent next season?
(http://cdn.steelersgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/jerricho_cotchery_diving_catch-26593.jpg)
Yeeeeeeeeeeeah.
Come on back J-Co, we miss you.
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^Cotchery-Moss NYJ reunion 2014!
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Sure he gets hurt a lot and he's had a few so-so seasons in a row, but he's still averaging almost 15 yards a catch and his demands will have to be a little smaller after the production dip.
This team needs all the help it can get at the position.
You described exactly why I don't want him:
Hurt a lot.
Is a so-so receiver.
He's a taller Santonio Holmes.
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You described exactly why I don't want him:
Hurt a lot.
Is a so-so receiver.
He's a taller Santonio Holmes.
I'm fine with being the only guy that wants Hakeem Nicks here for the right price. I was also the only one of us that wanted Miles Austin and one of the few that wanted to trade for Josh Gordon.
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I'm fine with being the only guy that wants Hakeem Nicks here for the right price. I was also the only one of us that wanted Miles Austin and one of the few that wanted to trade for Josh Gordon.
I don't recall ever having an opinion on Austin, but I was right there on wanting Gordon.
For the right price I guess I could stomach Nicks, but I wouldn't be happy with him.
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I'm fine with being the only guy that wants Hakeem Nicks here for the right price. I was also the only one of us that wanted Miles Austin and one of the few that wanted to trade for Josh Gordon.
You're proud to be right 33% of the time?
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You're proud to be right 33% of the time?
The last time I checked, Miles Austin and Josh Gordon were pretty good after the Jets thought about trading for them.
Were you one of the guys that compared Austin to McCareins?
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The last time I checked, Miles Austin and Josh Gordon were pretty good after the Jets thought about trading for them.
Were you one of the guys that compared Austin to McCareins?
Oh you mean 5 years ago Austin, my bad. The recent version sucks.
Edit: No I never compared anyone to McCareins other than this guy:
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSOZuudD8n-O_c9uMuZgQEx4aAWt0akYBVNyJ39jOmHBHrvQ_OD5w)
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Oh you mean 5 years ago Austin, my bad. The recent version sucks.
Edit: No I never compared anyone to McCareins other than this guy:
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSOZuudD8n-O_c9uMuZgQEx4aAWt0akYBVNyJ39jOmHBHrvQ_OD5w)
Nick Cannon with a harmonica?
That's low man.
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Nick Cannon with a harmonica?
That's low man.
Hahahahaha
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Here's a realistic but unpopular suggestion for the veteran stopgap QB of the next 2 years: Matt Schaub
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Here's a realistic but unpopular suggestion for the veteran stopgap QB of the next 2 years: Matt Schaub
I'd be perfectly happy to have Matt Schaub QB for one year during which I continue to drink myself to death so that our future franchise QB doesn't have to be slaughtered during his rookie season.
It's not like Schaub is going to produce worse than Geno has this year.
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If they cut him in the offseason that's $10.5M in dead money on their cap. But I can't see him remaining if they fire Kubiak.
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I wouldn't be against that, even if we land one of those QBs.
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If Houston draft a first round QB I would have thought it more likely that they keep Schaub as a veteran presence to relieve pressure on their draftee (there's a challenging concept for Jets fans!) and see what they can get for Keenum.
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If Houston draft a first round QB I would have thought it more likely that they keep Schaub as a veteran presence to relieve pressure on their draftee (there's a challenging concept for Jets fans!) and see what they can get for Keenum.
More like that's a challenging concept for the Jets, not the fans.
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More like that's a challenging concept for the Jets, not the fans.
Depends on which fans.
Pennington getting sacked on every other play = START CLEMENS!!!
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Depends on which fans.
Pennington getting sacked on every other play = START CLEMENS!!!
I was only thinking about 2009 and 2013. Many people wanted Sanchez and Smith to both sit.
Also, I don't remember many calls for Clemens in '06. It wasn't until his second year that he became the popular "other guy."
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Just to throw fuel on a fire I think is stupid in the first place, the Bears' GM said yesterday that they don't intend to use the franchise tag on Cutler.
Even if Cutler were to become a free agent, I think the memory of the Mike Martz offense will be too fresh for him to want to play behind our OL. He has spent quite enough time looking at the sky.
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Just to throw fuel on a fire I think is stupid in the first place, the Bears' GM said yesterday that they don't intend to use the franchise tag on Cutler.
That doesn't make their intentions clear - is he saying they'll re-sign him to a deal before it comes to using the tag, or they're going to let him test the market?
Or it could just be posturing.
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That doesn't make their intentions clear - is he saying they'll re-sign him to a deal before it comes to using the tag, or they're going to let him test the market?
Or it could just be posturing.
I got the impression that they'd like him to sign a long term deal but they're willing to let him test the market if his demands are silly, and are using the media to make it clear that he needs to be reasonable when he comes to the table. So, a bit of each probably.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24333846/phil-emery-not-inclined-to-give-jay-cutler-2014-franchise-tag
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Depends on which fans.
Pennington getting sacked on every other play = START CLEMENS!!!
Why do we need to draft a QB. Brett Ratcliff looks like he can be a starter in this league
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I got the impression that they'd like him to sign a long term deal but they're willing to let him test the market if his demands are silly, and are using the media to make it clear that he needs to be reasonable when he comes to the table. So, a bit of each probably.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24333846/phil-emery-not-inclined-to-give-jay-cutler-2014-franchise-tag
Who would be in the sweepstakes (so to speak) to sign Cutler? If we look at the teams who need QB's, and current top 10 picks we have:
1.) Houston currently has the 1st overall pick, and they have a team that they can draft a top tier QB and can come in effectively from day one. I doubt they would make a play for him. Especially when they have $10 million in dead weight with Schaub.
3.) Jacksonville has holes all over the place, and if they were to make a play for Cutler they could devote that pick to a Clowney, or even trade out to pick up more picks. They also have cap space to bid with anyone, if they so chose.
5.) Tampa Bay has been discussed as a team that may need a QB. I don't agree, Glennon has put up some pretty efficient numbers against some pretty good defenses, and he could/should get an opportunity going into the season as that guy.
6.) Minnesota is pretty decent shape with their cap with under $100 million but only have 41 players under contract in 2014.
7.) Oakland is right there in cap room. 31 players under contract and under $60 million. They might be a bit gun shy after the Flynn debacle of last off season.
8.) Cleveland I think is the best bet. Their cap situation has to be the best in the league going into the offseason with 55 players already under contract, and little over $100 million. Build up the offensive line, and with play makers like Gordon and Cameron, you have a contender.
While I was typing, my stomach sank, and realized that our chances of snagging him aren't really that good. What do we have to offer him? A broken Santonio Holmes, A raw/bust Stephen Hill, an average slot receiver Jeremy Kerley, no tight end to speak of, a suspect offensive line, and running backs that can't block or catch (depending on which one your talking about).
I think we need to root for Washington to lose out. Having St. Louis at #2 gives us options, as well as others, an opportunity to move up for a prospective elite QB. If Cleveland is the team to snag Cutler, which seems highly likely, we still have 3 teams that could go QB with their first pick.
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^ Jay Cutler would get destroyed behind our oline, and he has a history of being a turnover machine. No thanks.
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Cutler is head and shoulders better than any QB we've had since Pennington (and I include our version of Favre). And we have significant cap space/draft picks to sign/draft a couple of linemen and two offensive weapons for him.
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Cutler is head and shoulders better than any QB we've had since Pennington (and I include our version of Favre). And we have significant cap space/draft picks to sign/draft a couple of linemen and two offensive weapons for him.
I'd rather draft a QB, then throw a boatload of capspace at this potential headcase. Not worth it....sorry.
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Yeah, but we might be in a position in which we cannot draft a top one and we definitely need something at this point. And I'd prefer Sanchez than Schaub tbh. Same problems, but at least one is already in our roster and wants to stay there.
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Yeah, but we might be in a position in which we cannot draft a top one and we definitely need something at this point. And I'd prefer Sanchez than Schaub tbh. Same problems, but at least one is already in our roster and wants to stay there.
I want to see where we are in the draft order at the end of the season, before we make that assumption.
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Of course, and at this point I'm seriously afraid we might lose out, but we need to speculate about something, what fun would it be to wait until we know? Party-pooper!
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How many solid years does Cutler have in him?
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Of course, and at this point I'm seriously afraid we might lose out, but we need to speculate about something, what fun would it be to wait until we know? Party-pooper!
hahaha! speculate all you want, my friend. Don't let me stop you.
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hahaha! speculate all you want, my friend. Don't let my green camaro stop you like it did me in 2012 from coming to the tailgate because I significantly overpaid, 35% above sticker and had this large monthly payment for a car I just keep in my garage 9 3/4 months out of the year because I live in an arctic wasteland.
Word!
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How many solid years does Cutler have in him?
I'd say 5ish.
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I want Cutler here just to yell at Mangold and Holmes.
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Cutler is head and shoulders better than any QB we've had since Pennington (and I include our version of Favre). And we have significant cap space/draft picks to sign/draft a couple of linemen and two offensive weapons for him.
But he got mad at J'Marcus Webb for sucking and yelled at him.
/head case
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Cutler would be the most talented QB in the history of this franchise.
That said he will not be available. Vick, Sanchez, and Schaub are the exciting names we get to pick from
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That said he will not be available.
This is unknown
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But he got mad at J'Marcus Webb for sucking and yelled at him.
/head case
He may be a dick, but who gives a excrement? We haven't had much success with "team players" and "nice guy" QBs. freak it. Maybe we need a dick.
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(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jay-Cutler-Yells-and-Pushes-JMarcus-Webb.gif)
(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jay-Cutler-Kicks-Charles-Woodson.gif)
(http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/DREW0403.gif)
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This is unknown
Right...
Maybe we sign Calvin Johnson too
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He may be a dick, but who gives a excrement? We haven't had much success with "team players" and "nice guy" QBs. freak it. Maybe we need a dick.
Sanchez is a dick.
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Right...
Maybe we sign Calvin Johnson too
The guy will be a free agent next season. Anything is possible.
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I don't care if he's a dick as long as he plays well. I don't have to live with him.
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Right...
Maybe we sign Calvin Johnson too
Cutler and Johnson? Super Bowl Babbie!
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I don't think Cutler would willingly come to this team. Idzik would have to throw most of the cap space for the year at him to convince him which would leave Cutler with a shitty WR corps and OLine. I think the Jets' best bet is to sign whichever should-be backup that hits FA and then either trade up this season or stock up on skill and OLine talent in 2014 and grab the QB of the future in the 2015 draft.
Adding Cutler would be good. Adding Cutler to what this team will probably look like next season would be futile.
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I don't think Cutler would willingly come to this team. Idzik would have to throw most of the cap space for the year at him to convince him which would leave Cutler with a shitty WR corps and OLine. I think the Jets' best bet is to sign whichever should-be backup that hits FA and then either trade up this season or stock up on skill and OLine talent in 2014 and grab the QB of the future in the 2015 draft.
Adding Cutler would be good. Adding Cutler to what this team will probably look like next season would be futile.
Dude everyone wants to play for Rex, that's a fact.
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The guy will be a free agent next season. Anything is possible.
Joe flacco was a "free agent" this recent offseason too. How close was he to leaving Baltimore?
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Joe flacco was a "free agent" this recent offseason too. How close was he to leaving Baltimore?
They would have been better off then giving him that insane contract.
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Joe flacco was a "free agent" this recent offseason too. How close was he to leaving Baltimore?
Is Jay Cutler going to win a Super Bowl this season?
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I don't think Cutler would willingly come to this team. Idzik would have to throw most of the cap space for the year at him to convince him which would leave Cutler with a shitty WR corps and OLine. I think the Jets' best bet is to sign whichever should-be backup that hits FA and then either trade up this season or stock up on skill and OLine talent in 2014 and grab the QB of the future in the 2015 draft.
Adding Cutler would be good. Adding Cutler to what this team will probably look like next season would be futile.
good post, Scotty. Bang on.
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Is Jay Cutler going to win a Super Bowl this season?
no but he's better than Flacco
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doge
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Joe flacco was a "free agent" this recent offseason too. How close was he to leaving Baltimore?
Joe Flacco is Baltimore's franchise QB, and they won a Super Bowl. The freak is wrong with you?
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My honest opinion of Cutler :
He one of the most gifted QB's you will ever find who also happens to be dead from the neck up. He would be an upgrade over what the Jets currently have but then again, Johnny Unitas's moldering corpse would be an significant upgrade as well. He is a turnover machine that isn't a proven winner and to be honest I would not want the Jets to throw a ton of money at him. That's just me.
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Would we really need to throw a ton of money at him though? How much could he possibly cost per season?
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Joe Flacco is Baltimore's franchise QB, and they won a Super Bowl. The freak is wrong with you?
"Cutler is the Bears’ all-time leader in passer rating (83.4), completions (1,177), attempts (1,952) and passing yards per game (224.5). He ranks second in franchise history in completion percentage (60.3), yards (13,922) and touchdowns (94)"
Sounds like a franchise QB to me
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"Cutler is the Bears’ all-time leader in passer rating (83.4), completions (1,177), attempts (1,952) and passing yards per game (224.5). He ranks second in franchise history in completion percentage (60.3), yards (13,922) and touchdowns (94)"
Sounds like a franchise QB to me
Sanchez has the most playoff victories out of any Jets QB. He's the Jets.
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Would we really need to throw a ton of money at him though? How much could he possibly cost per season?
15-20 mill with an emphasis on the upper end of the range, per year.
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Would we really need to throw a ton of money at him though? How much could he possibly cost per season?
Were he to actually hit free agency? Easily more than Revis deal, with a freak ton guaranteed.
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15-20 mill with an emphasis on the upper end of the range, per year.
Agreed, this is probably what he's getting. A little less than Matt Ryan.
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Sanchez has the most playoff victories out of any Jets QB. He's the Jets.
Uhm playoff victories isn't a QB stat.
Shonn Greene is a better running back than Adrian Peterson because he has more playoff wins right?
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Would we really need to throw a ton of money at him though? How much could he possibly cost per season?
To come to this team with an undeveloped OLine and WR corps? Yes. To go to a team that has a good WR corps and a developed OLine? Probably still.
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Jay Cutler, coming off of an injury-filled season, is not going to make $15M per season.
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I'm not worried about the turnovers. They haven't been too bad since 2009, a season which is an outlier in his body of work.
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Jay Cutler, coming off of an injury-filled season, is not going to make $15M per season.
some QB-desperate team will throw that at him.
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Agreed, this is probably what he's getting. A little less than Matt Ryan.
Wow I didn't even realize his new salary, good lord.
The Jets really need to draft a franchise guy so they can get at least 4 cheap years. QB's are getting such a huge portion of the cap. Like I said Cutler is a huge upgrade but he isn't a 18-20 mil QB in my eyes and that is the neighborhood you're going to have to play in to get him.
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Jay Cutler, coming off of an injury-filled season, is not going to make $15M per season.
LaCanfora (I know) reckons that Stafford and Romo are the benchmark contracts that Cutler's team will use in negotiations - that puts him in the $15-18M range.
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Jay Cutler, coming off of an injury-filled season, is not going to make $15M per season.
What kind of bet would you like to make on that?
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Jay Cutler, coming off of an injury-filled season, is not going to make $15M per season.
Delusional
He'd be the best QB to embrace open bidding in free agency in the modern era.
Not counting Peyton since he wasn't after money and didn't have interest in the bidding war he could have started
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LaCanfora (I know) reckons that Stafford and Romo are the benchmark contracts that Cutler's team will use in negotiations - that puts him in the $15-18M range.
Being that he is going to be an FA, figure a little higher. (no hometown discount)
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Cutler would be the most talented QB in the history of this franchise.
That said he will not be available. Vick, Sanchez, and Schaub are the exciting names we get to pick from
Joe Namath was more talented than Cutler.
Other than that, the list is small.
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Joe Namath was more talented than Cutler.
Other than that, the list is small.
Namath would be at the top of the list of pretty much every franchise in terms of physical talent. Injuries and party life got in the way.
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Being that he is going to be an FA, figure a little higher. (no hometown discount)
I think Romo's a considerably better QB than Cutler and Stafford considerably worse, so it's probably about right.
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I think Romo's a considerably better QB than Cutler and Stafford considerably worse, so it's probably about right.
Romo & Cutler are very similar. Both gunslingers with a penchant for turning the ball over. On the flip side, they both put up gaudy numbers when they're on their game. High risk high reward.
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I think Romo is a smarter QB who is superior on the move and has a better attitude.
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I still think the Cutler pipe dreams are retarded. He's 100% returning to Chicago. Either tagged or a new deal
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I don't mind the interceptions as long as we can consistently pass for 10+ yards on 1st or 2nd down. I haven't seen a Jets QB do that since Vinny.
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I think Romo is a smarter QB who is superior on the move and has a better attitude.
attitude, yes.....but i wouldn't say he's the smarter QB. I think Cutler is a little more clutch than Romo. Romo has cost the Cowboys his fair share of games with some inopportune turnovers in big spots.
EDIT: And to take it a step further....Romo has had better weapons than Cutler on a more consistent basis over his career.
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I think Romo's a considerably better QB than Cutler and Stafford considerably worse, so it's probably about right.
I am not disagreeing in terms of skill and play. That said neither Dallas nor Detroit stated their intentions were to let either go to FA and test the market. So they can and did get a discount to what the open market would have paid. Chicago said publicly Cutler can test the waters. You can bet that a team desperate for a QB would pay more than market rate to bring him in. That's all I am saying. I suppose we agree to disagree there.
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has a better attitude.
Who cares? You don't have to be around him.
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Back to the topic of cap space, we're already looking at coming in $22M or so under the cap, with the opportunity to clear out another $20M or more in addition to that.
I wouldn't be surprised if we had another offseason like we did in 2008.
Though if Rex stays, thereby creating the most likely scenario for us to go after a QB like Cutler, then I doubt Holmes is cut, so that would mean $8M that we could have cleared out staying on the books instead.
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Who cares? You don't have to be around him.
Right. Because gobshites with a bad attitude haven't been a problem for this team at all in recent years.
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Back to the topic of cap space, we're already looking at coming in $22M or so under the cap, with the opportunity to clear out another $20M or more in addition to that.
I wouldn't be surprised if we had another offseason like we did in 2008.
It'll be interesting to see how Idzik approaches Free Agency. I think he may be a little more conservative and calculated than Tanny. I do expect some spending to happen (smart signings), but i don't expect him to fire up the proverbial "shopping cart" like Tanny did on a consistent basis.
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Who cares? You don't have to be around him.
Do you feel the same way about Santonio Holmes?
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Do you feel the same way about Santonio Holmes?
This is true, also you can't overlook the fact this would be Cutler's 3rd team. "Franchise" QB's, almost without exception, play the primes of their career on 1 team and 1 team only.
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I know there's doubt that the Bears would franchise Cutler. But i wouldn't be surprised if they resigned him anyway. Trestman and Cutler have history....it's one of the reasons why Trestman was hired.
I expect there to be a ton of posturing between the 2 camps.
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This is true, also you can't overlook the fact this would be Cutler's 3rd team. "Franchise" QB's, almost without exception, play the primes of their career on 1 team and 1 team only.
Brees, Bledsoe, Vick, Peyton, Favre, Cutler, Kurt Warner, Palmer
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Brees, Bledsoe, Vick, Peyton, Favre, Cutler, Kurt Warner, Palmer
Vick's situation is rather different, Peyton and Favre both played their primes at one team and left when they were pretty much done with their careers and the team was in a great position to move on, Palmer isn't a franchise QB as he has done a decent job of demonstrating, and young Brees lost a camp competition with another superb franchise QB.
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Vick's situation is rather different, Peyton and Favre both played their primes at one team and left when they were pretty much done with their careers and the team was in a great position to move on, Palmer isn't a franchise QB as he has done a decent job of demonstrating, and young Brees lost a camp competition with another superb franchise QB.
Palmer was never the same after he was von oelhoffen'd. Before that injury, an argument could've been made.
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Brees, Bledsoe, Vick, Peyton, Favre, Cutler, Kurt Warner, Palmer
Please read what I said:
Bledsoe- If by prime you mean aged, you're correct.
Vick- His Prime was hanging with Bubba in prison, besides he never had a prime.
Peyton- So he is in his prime right now? lol
Favre- I must have missed the prime years Favre wasn't in Green Bay. Where did he play then?
Warner- Lol he sure spent his prime years in Arizona and New York.
Palmer- Yeah he sure looked like he was having his prime years in Oakland and the tail end of Cinci.
Brees is the lone exception and New Orleans was lucky because he had an injury similar to Chad Pennington plus San Diego mortgaged the farm to get Philip Rivers. It's a completely one off situation, Brees was a huge gamble coming off major shoulder surgery. New Orleans won lotto.
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Santonio Holmes is only an issue because we don't have a QB that can effectively make use of his talents.
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Santonio Holmes is only an issue because we don't have a QB that can effectively make use of his talents.
O rly?
the Steelers saw fit to trade him for peanuts....and they have an elite QB.
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Palmer isn't a franchise QB as he has done a decent job of demonstrating,
Career-wise there isn't a huge chasm between Palmer and Cutler.
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Perhaps reading is difficult:
Bledsoe- If by prime you mean aged, you're correct.
Vick- His Prime was hanging with Bubba in prison, besides he never had a prime.
Peyton- So he is in his prime right now? lol
Favre- I must have missed the prime years Favre wasn't in Green Bay. Where did he play then?
Warner- Lol he sure spent his prime years in Arizona and New York.
Palmer- Yeah he sure looked like he was having his prime years in Oakland and the tail end of Cinci.
Bledsoe was 29/30. That's old for a QB?
Peyton having the best year of his career
Favre had the best year of his career with the Vikings
Warner Is the best example. He was a legit franchise QB for the rams and Arizona getting both to superbowls
Palmer was 30 not his fault he joined excrement teams and couldn't stay healthy
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Career-wise there isn't a huge chasm between Palmer and Cutler.
I'm not the one advocating signing Cutler, although I'd rather have him than Palmer.
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Bledsoe was 29/30. That's old for a QB?
Peyton having the best year of his career
Favre had the best year of his career with the Vikings
Warner Is the best example. He was a legit franchise QB for the rams and Arizona getting both to superbowls
Palmer was 30 not his fault he joined excrement teams and couldn't stay healthy
You know I toned down my post but seriously stop being a nit. None of those QBs were in their prime, not a fuckking one. Do not argue about it because it's freaking retarded.
Peyton is a 38 year old QB, he is not in his prime, he missed an entire season in his mid 30's for major back/neck surgery. Congrats to him on his fantastic year.
Warner was flip flopping between Josh McKnown and Matt Leinert in 2005-2006, two noted superstars, as the starting QB of the Cardinals and he wasn't the starter in 2007 until game 4 or 5 if I remember correctly.. So yeah other than that fact, sure you're correct he was totally in his prime.
How long did Favre last after his career best with the Vikings? What was the result the following season? Go ahead I am waiting?
So Palmer couldn't stay healthy? Oh yeah that sounds like a guy in his prime.
Bledsoe was never the same after the Moe Lewis hit, he was not a franchise QB thereafter, not even close.
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If the Bears let Cutler go it's because he couldn't stay healthy either
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Even if those guys weren't in their "prime" the point was guys like Favre, Peyton, Warner were all playing at seriously elite levels. All of whom either won, or almost won NFL MVP awards on their new teams. So it's not like they were playing very well after they left. They were playing better than EVERYONE else after they left
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Even if those guys weren't in their "prime" the point was guys like Favre, Peyton, Warner were all playing at seriously elite levels. All of whom either won, or almost won NFL MVP awards on their new teams. So it's not like they were playing very well after they left. They were playing better than EVERYONE else after they left
No that's not the point. The point is they were 1-2-3 year rentals at most and well past their prime as a franchise QB, if in fact they were one to begin with. The franchise's they signed with are still looking to fill in the vacuum/void left when those fossils leave.
So paying insane amounts of freaking money for a so called Franchise QB is retarded because true franchise QB's never switch teams in their prime. I can't believe someone getting a Masters can't grasp this fact. Is it a complex theory?
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I'm not even sure why were arguing. You don't think he's a franchise QB, and I dont think he's ever hitting free agency
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I'm not even sure why we're arguing.
Summary of the last 3 pages.
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Summary of the last 3 years.
FTFY
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Has anyone noticed that David Lee's name hasn't come up in months? I bet he's preparing his resume.
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Has anyone noticed that David Lee's name hasn't come up in months? I bet he's preparing his resume.
You know that's kind of interesting. Cavanaugh was talked about almost weekly on the boards and no one discusses Lee at all.
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You know that's kind of interesting. Cavanaugh was talked about almost weekly on the boards and no one discusses Lee at all.
Lee was here less than a year. And it's unfair to blame him for a 2nd round project QB behind a makeshift OL and no offensive weapons struggling. Especially when this QB never played an NFL style offense before
Nobody knows how good a job he's done, but it's unlikely he's the cause of our offensive struggles.
At least with Sanchez Cavanaugh had almost 5 years to do something with
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Lee was here less than a year. And it's unfair to blame him for a 2nd round project QB behind a makeshift OL and no offensive weapons struggling. Especially when this QB never played an NFL style offense before
Nobody knows how good a job he's done, but it's unlikely he's the cause of our offensive struggles.
At least with Sanchez Cavanaugh had almost 5 years to do something with
But there are problems with Geno that should be fixable if you drill them out. Holding the football properly and not staring down your only target are two things that you should be pounding into a QB's head if he's not getting it, which he isn't.
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But there are problems with Geno that should be fixable if you drill them out. Holding the football properly and not staring down your only target are two things that you should be pounding into a QB's head if he's not getting it, which he isn't.
I understand that, but there's a ton of things that they need to fix with him. You can't expect everything to get fixed in 6 months. And im sure they have to spend a ton of time working on the playbook with him.
Not to mention Geno was second team (sorta) all preseason. So Lee was likely splitting his effort with him and Sanchez. I'm not saying Lees doing a good job, just that we really gotta give him some time before we judge.
Hell for all we know he could be teaching Geno all the right excrement, but Geno might be so terrible that it makes no difference.
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Lee was here less than a year. And it's unfair to blame him for a 2nd round project QB behind a makeshift OL and no offensive weapons struggling. Especially when this QB never played an NFL style offense before
Nobody knows how good a job he's done, but it's unlikely he's the cause of our offensive struggles.
At least with Sanchez Cavanaugh had almost 5 years to do something with
Blame Rex
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not staring down your only target are two things that you should be pounding into a QB's head if he's not getting it, which he isn't.
You can't coach that if the player can't handle that much information.
He's staring down his targets because they're his first read. He fails at making multiple reads - always has, and I'm not sure if that will ever click for him.
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So Lee was likely splitting his effort with him and Sanchez.
That's not how it works.
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I understand that, but there's a ton of things that they need to fix with him. You can't expect everything to get fixed in 6 months. And im sure they have to spend a ton of time working on the playbook with him.
Not to mention Geno was second team (sorta) all preseason. So Lee was likely splitting his effort with him and Sanchez. I'm not saying Lees doing a good job, just that we really gotta give him some time before we judge.
Hell for all we know he could be teaching Geno all the right excrement, but Geno might be so terrible that it makes no difference.
Sanchez looked a lot more like an NFL QB than he has in his previous 4 years, and that should be (was at the time) attributed to Lee. He is still a dumb quarterback, but his pocket presence and footwork were much improved. The only problem I had this season with Sanchez was his stupidity.
I remember advocating for McElroy to start the season because our QB situation was so bleak (I really didn't want Geno starting day 1, as did most on here), but thinking back, Sanchez's improvements were pretty noticeable this preseason.
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Sanchez looked a lot more like an NFL QB than he has in his previous 4 years, and that should be (was at the time) attributed to Lee. He is still a dumb quarterback, but his pocket presence and footwork were much improved. The only problem I had this season with Sanchez was his stupidity.
I remember advocating for McElroy to start the season because our QB situation was so bleak (I really didn't want Geno starting day 1, as did most on here), but thinking back, Sanchez's improvements were pretty noticeable this preseason.
I think we had way too small of a sample size for Sanchez to tell if any real improvements were made. I wanted Sanchez to start and I felt he won the job (until the injury) but I didn't read much into what I saw in preseason.
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I think we had way too small of a sample size for Sanchez to tell if any real improvements were made. I wanted Sanchez to start and I felt he won the job (until the injury) but I didn't read much into what I saw in preseason.
I agree with the sample size. However, after 4 years of watching his pocket presence, it was pretty easy to see the improvements. That doesn't just change, IMO.
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You can't coach that if the player can't handle that much information.
He's staring down his targets because they're his first read. He fails at making multiple reads - always has, and I'm not sure if that will ever click for him.
What's worse is the lack of pre-snap recognition, before the fur flies. Just about every quarterback in the league- even the back-ups- can identify that if eight guys are creeping up to the line of scrimmage on 3rd-and-8, they're about to blitz.
Geno Smith seems caught off guard EVERY time.
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Geno Smith seems caught off guard EVERY time.
"I didn't know they were allowed to do that!"
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"I didn't know they were allowed to do that!"
Don't they have to count to three before they can blitz?
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Don't they have to count to three before they can blitz?
Hahahahahaha
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Sanchez looked a lot more like an NFL QB than he has in his previous 4 years, and that should be (was at the time) attributed to Lee. He is still a dumb quarterback, but his pocket presence and footwork were much improved. The only problem I had this season with Sanchez was his stupidity.
I remember advocating for McElroy to start the season because our QB situation was so bleak (I really didn't want Geno starting day 1, as did most on here), but thinking back, Sanchez's improvements were pretty noticeable this preseason.
Yeah no way in hell did I want Geno starting right off the bat. Sad to say Sanchez was the way better option this season. Oh well
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Sanchez looked a lot more like an NFL QB than he has in his previous 4 years, and that should be (was at the time) attributed to Lee.
He was impressive last season until the Lawrence Timmons helmet-to-helmet hit.
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He was impressive last season until the Lawrence Timmons helmet-to-helmet hit.
1 and a quarter games. Hahahahaha typical of the Jets to get sustained greatness out of their QB.
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I'm tired of people blaming that one hit for Sanchez sucking.
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1 and a quarter games. Hahahahaha typical of the Jets to get sustained greatness out of their QB.
Just taking a shot at hawk for giving David Lee credit for Mark Sanchez playing not even halfway decent in the preseason.
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I'm tired of people blaming that one hit for Sanchez sucking.
That's not what I was saying.
He sucked because he became shell-shocked.
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Assuming the Jets pick somewhere between 6-12, list the QBs you would be OK with the Jets taking in that range in the 2014 draft, even the ones you assume would be gone by then.
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Assuming the Jets pick somewhere between 6-12, list the QBs you would be OK with the Jets taking in that range in the 2014 draft, even the ones you assume would be gone by then.
Derek Carr
AJ McCarron
Blake Bortles
Teddy Bridgewater
Johnny Manziel
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Derek Carr
AJ McCarron
Blake Bortles
Teddy Bridgewater
Johnny Manziel
That's my list, although I imagine at least one of those guys will play their way into being a bottom of the first round QB, making him a reach in the top 10. But right now I would be ok with any of them, by far the most excited about Carr and Bridgewater. Least ok with Bortles and Manziel, somewhat indifferent on McCarron but just happy as he should be far better than Geno.
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Least ok with Bortles
Blake Bortles = dat dude
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Blake Bortles = dat dude
The freak does this even mean?
I haven't watched Bortles enough to have an opinion on him.
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The freak does this even mean?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x2v8bwGfnk
replace the word "nigga" with "dude"
What you will get is a song that describes Carr, McCarron, Bortles, and Manziel
If you don't replace the lyrics, you get a song that describes Teddy Bridgewater, but not Geno Smith
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Just taking a shot at hawk for giving David Lee credit for Mark Sanchez playing not even halfway decent in the preseason.
As usual, a weak shot. I never said Sanchez played well, but his pocket presence and footwork were much improved. I can't stand Mark Sanchez, and I wasn't the initial one to give Lee the credit.
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I never said Sanchez played well, but his pocket presence and footwork were much improved.
No, they weren't.
hawk: QB footwork guru
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That's my list, although I imagine at least one of those guys will play their way into being a bottom of the first round QB, making him a reach in the top 10. But right now I would be ok with any of them, by far the most excited about Carr and Bridgewater. Least ok with Bortles and Manziel, somewhat indifferent on McCarron but just happy as he should be far better than Geno.
One thing I learned about drafting QBs: if you think a QB with a late rd 1 grade is the guy, then there is no such thing as a reach for him.
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One thing I learned about drafting QBs: if you think a QB with a late rd 1 grade is the guy, then there is no such thing as a reach for him.
I agree in general, but then we get things like the 2011 draft with reaches for Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder in the top 12. And of course, it lead to the Weeden pick a year ago.
This is the reason I get nervous about doing that, but if they are actually right, it's worth it no doubt, but you gotta be right (which of course is true of any QB pick)
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I agree in general, but then we get things like the 2011 draft with reaches for Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder in the top 12. And of course, it lead to the Weeden pick a year ago.
This is the reason I get nervous about doing that, but if they are actually right, it's worth it no doubt, but you gotta be right (which of course is true of any QB pick)
It was that 2011 draft that made me come to this thought actually. I bashed those teams pretty hard, then I realized that there is no substitute for the QB you think is "the guy". They were wrong (though I think Locker will be a guy who lingers and start somewhere), but it's an easy risk to take for the guy you think will be the franchise.
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I think there's a clear difference between thinking a guy could be THE guy and "reaching" for him or reaching for a player just because you have no other alternative. Most of the last examples you guys cited belong to the second kind. No one really thought that Weeden had 1st round talent, but the Browns NEEDED a QB so they took a risk. Sometimes it works, like Tannehill and Miami (kind of) but it general it doesn't.
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I think there's a clear difference between thinking a guy could be THE guy and "reaching" for him or reaching for a player just because you have no other alternative. Most of the last examples you guys cited belong to the second kind. No one really thought that Weeden had 1st round talent, but the Browns NEEDED a QB so they took a risk. Sometimes it works, like Tannehill and Miami (kind of) but it general it doesn't.
This is what worries me, because this is exactly where we currently are, and are extremely likely to be come April. Which leads to forcing a pick, missing on it, and freaking the franchise for another 2-3 years (which I suppose is better than the 5-7 it was before the rookie cap, but still)
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I think there's a clear difference between thinking a guy could be THE guy and "reaching" for him or reaching for a player just because you have no other alternative. Most of the last examples you guys cited belong to the second kind. No one really thought that Weeden had 1st round talent, but the Browns NEEDED a QB so they took a risk. Sometimes it works, like Tannehill and Miami (kind of) but it general it doesn't.
You honestly think the teams just picked random QBs in the top ten and locked their franchises into that player for years solely because they had no better option? C'mon now.
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You honestly think the teams just picked random QBs in the top ten and locked their franchises into that player for years solely because they had no better option? C'mon now.
Huh? Where did I say they picked them randomly? They chose the ones they thought were the best available to them, but they reached for inferior talent because this is now a QB-driven league, setting their franchises back for years as Libero said. Ten years ago, no way Weeden would have been picked in the first round, not even in the second IMO.
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If they picked players that they did not think could be the guy, then they'd basically be knowingly screwing their own teams. Teams don't pick top ten guys unless they think they can be a big part of the franchise.
*edited for clarity
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If they picked players that they did not think could be the guy, then they'd basically be knowingly screwing their own teams. Teams don't pick top ten guys unless they think they can be a big part of the franchise.
*edited for clarity
No. It doesn't work that way. As in every industry, there's supply and demand. QB's are a hot commodity at the moment so the demand is bigger than the supply. If you are a team that picks in the Top 10 you have the option to either choose the best possible QB available to you (which might not even be that good), or wait/trade down, knowing that other teams will be looking for the same hot commodity and you might end up with nothing. As the demand is bigger than the supply, buyers have to make do with what is offered instead of what they would actually like.
So, teams have picked QB's recently hoping that they will turn out to be good but with no real guarantee that they will be their guy. Ponder or Tannehill, for example, wouldn't have been top 15 picks ten years ago by any chance but as the league has evolved teams are more willing to take that risk.
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No. It doesn't work that way. As in every industry, there's supply and demand. QB's are a hot commodity at the moment so the demand is bigger than the offer. If you are a team that picks in the Top 10 you either have the option to choose the best possible option available to you (which might not even be that good), or wait or trade down, knowing that other teams will be looking for the same hot commodity and you might end up with nothing. As the demand is bigger than the supply, buyers have to make do with what is offered instead of what they would actually like.
So, teams have picked QB's recently hoping that they will turn out to be good but with no real guarantee that they will be their guy. Ponder or Tannehill, for example, wouldn't have been top 15 picks ten years ago by any chance but as the league has evolved teams are more willing to take that risk.
I don't see a way that we won't disagree, so I'll just say that no team that goes into it with that thought process is ever going to win; similarly, I doubt any business that just accepts the world and takes in whatever they can get to put out a sub-par product is going to do well.
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Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 21m
#Titans not expected to pick up 2015 option ($13M) for QB Jake Locker, @MikeSilver & I are told. Puts them immediately in the QB market.
Great...another hand in the QB basket next year at the draft.
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On the flipside, Locker has started to really look like a good QB this year - were it not for the durability v cost issue that the Titans have, they'd definitely be sticking with him. If he can be acquired at a sensible price I'd be very happy with having Jake Locker start under center for the Jets next year, and use the draft to get him weapons and protection.
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^ I don't see Locker as a franchise QB option for us, not with that injury history. I don't blame the Titans for cutting bait.
I saw enough during the Pennington years. Durability at QB is essential.
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I understand that, but if we're in rebuild then there would be much worse options to have and if it allows us to take, say, Sammy Watkins this year and then go after a young franchise QB in 2015, I think Locker could be a very decent move.
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I understand that, but if we're in rebuild then there would be much worse options to have and if it allows us to take, say, Sammy Watkins this year and then go after a young franchise QB in 2015, I think Locker could be a very decent move.
if you're viewing Locker as a stopgap while continuing to search for a franchise QB in the draft, that's an entirely different scenario. I wouldn't scoff at that.
I just don't think Locker would be on board for that type of role....he'll want to start for the long term. I don't think he's a great "long term" solution for this franchise....if he was, the Titans would keep him.
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if you're viewing Locker as a stopgap while continuing to search for a franchise QB in the draft, that's an entirely different scenario. I wouldn't scoff at that.
I just don't think Locker would be on board for that type of role....he'll want to start for the long term. I don't think he's a great "long term" solution for this franchise.
I think his durability concerns will mean that he'll have to accept that anyone who signs him is not going to do so without having a legitimate alternative at QB and that he's going to have to play for his place, but Locker allows you to draft a new QB in 2015 and hopefully sit the rookie until he's ready to take over. That gives Locker the chance to make the starting job his to lose; I'm not sure that he can really ask for much more with his injury record.
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I think his durability concerns will mean that he'll have to accept that anyone who signs him is not going to do so without having a legitimate alternative at QB and that he's going to have to play for his place, but Locker allows you to draft a new QB in 2015 and hopefully sit the rookie until he's ready to take over. That gives Locker the chance to make the starting job his to lose; I'm not sure that he can really ask for much more with his injury record.
We've been fortunate for the last few seasons to have durable QBs (minus the Sanchez injury this year)....i'm not sure if you followed the Jets during Pennington's campaign, if you did, you'd probably want to avoid Locker at all costs.
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This is what worries me, because this is exactly where we currently are, and are extremely likely to be come April.
*May
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We've been fortunate for the last few seasons to have durable QBs (minus the Sanchez injury this year)....i'm not sure if you followed the Jets during Pennington's campaign, if you did, you'd probably want to avoid Locker at all costs.
Totally different situations. I'm talking about a short term stopgap with high upside while the long term future of the position is established, not building the franchise around him.
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I'd prefer Locker as a stopgap over Schaub. Like Russ said, higher ceiling. His injury history makes it a risk, but we won't have to break the bank for him.
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Totally different situations. I'm talking about a short term stopgap with high upside while the long term future of the position is established, not building the franchise around him.
He would have to pass a physical with flying colors before I would put a contract in front of him. Stopgap or not.
Especially after what happened with Garrard.
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He would have to pass a physical with flying colors before I would put a contract in front of him. Stopgap or not.
Especially after what happened with Garrard.
Garrard is 500 years old and he missed multiple seasons before we signed him
Different situation
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Garrard is 500 years old and he missed multiple seasons before we signed him
Different situation
I still don't trust Locker's injury history. Not enough to depend on him to be our interim starter.
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Locker cannot stay on the field which would mean putting the rookie out there early. I don't give a excrement about a stop-gap's ceiling since he's not supposed to be there for more than 2 seasons.
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A tear in his non-throwing shoulder caused by a tackle, and a lisfranc injury. He was virtually injury free in college.
I'm not saying that he's someone to whom you can entrust the franchise, but his injuries aren't as concerning as, say, continuous hamstring or groin strains and tears, which would suggest some form of intrinsic deficiency and likelihood of recurrence.
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The lisfranc issue is pretty damn serious and could effect his ability to play in 2014. I'm not entirely against it but he is far from my first choice.
Two major injuries in two seasons isn't something you can dismiss so lightly. Just because it isn't one chronic injury doesn't mean he does not have injury problems. His body is not holding up to a full season in the NFL. That is a big problem.
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A tear in his non-throwing shoulder caused by a tackle, and a lisfranc injury. He was virtually injury free in college.
I'm not saying that he's someone to whom you can entrust the franchise, but his injuries aren't as concerning as, say, continuous hamstring or groin strains and tears, which would suggest some form of intrinsic deficiency and likelihood of recurrence.
That is the exact same rationale we used when Chad first got hurt, random freak occurence, he'll be fine. Then it was his rotator cuff, then another unrelated injury and another....
Sometimes a guys body just can't take the pounding, Lockers body appears to be one them
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The Bears have 2 starting caliber quarterbacks on their roster. You have to imagine one of them would be available. I would take either over Locker.
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The Bears have 2 starting caliber quarterbacks on their roster. You have to imagine one of them would be available. I would take either over Locker.
There's rumors surfacing that Chicago will let Jay Cutler walk if he doesn't take a team friendly deal.
Josh McCown will be 35 years old next season. He's had a great year and it's an awesome story, but he is nothing more than a stopgap. With that said, I'll take either of them over Geno Smith.
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There's rumors surfacing that Chicago will let Jay Cutler walk if he doesn't take a team friendly deal.
Josh McCown will be 35 years old next season. He's had a great year and it's an awesome story, but he is nothing more than a stopgap. With that said, I'll take either of them over Geno Smith.
I will take a Juggs machine over Geno at this point.
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I will take a Juggs machine over Geno at this point.
But he had an average game against Oakland
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But he had an average game against Oakland
Huge improvement!
If he progresses at the same rate the rest of the year, he'll be Tom Brady by New Year's Day.
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There's rumors surfacing that Chicago will let Jay Cutler walk if he doesn't take a team friendly deal.
Josh McCown will be 35 years old next season. He's had a great year and it's an awesome story, but he is nothing more than a stopgap. With that said, I'll take either of them over Geno Smith.
If by walk, they mean tag him and trade him maybe.
I can't see a team just letting a very good QB just walking and getting nothing
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If by walk, they mean tag him and trade him maybe.
No, by walk they mean walk.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Bears-likely-to-let-Cutler-walk-in-offseason.html
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No, by walk they mean walk.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Bears-likely-to-let-Cutler-walk-in-offseason.html
If Cutler hits free agency I'm gonna wish we still had Tannenbaum. Throw the house at him, get us a damn QB
Even if we greatly overpay look at the money and resources we wasted on Geno Sanchez Favre in recent years
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If Cutler hits free agency I'm gonna wish we still had Tannenbaum. Throw the house at him, get us a damn QB
Idzik will sign McCown and he'll retire right before training camp.
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If by walk, they mean tag him and trade him maybe.
I can't see a team just letting a very good QB just walking and getting nothing
When was the last time a team did a sign and trade in the NFL? (Drew Stanton doesn't count.) I don't remember it happening.
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The Bears aren't in a position in which overpaying Cutler is even an option. The guy is going to be paid like a franchise QB even though he's not a franchise QB. He's always been potential and glimmers of greatness. Someone will pony up Top 3 money for him, and the Bears were never going to be that team. The only surprising thing is that they let that out already.
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When was the last time a team did a sign and trade in the NFL? (Drew Stanton doesn't count.) I don't remember it happening.
Brandon Marshall was tagged and traded from Denver. Wasn't Seymour too?
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Ahem. Jason Smith.
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Actually, Smith was under contract still, so I guess it's not the same. Still, it was an entirely new deal.
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It would be a tag and trade in this case, not a sign and trade. Would be extremely bizarre for them to sign him to a new deal than trade him.
I just can't see why they wouldn't tag and trade him. It would be stupidly easy for them to get at least two seconds for him.
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It would be a tag and trade in this case, not a sign and trade
Do you know how the franchise tag works?
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Do you know how the franchise tag works?
Yeah he'd be fully guaranteed a freak ton of cash for one year if they couldn't trade him.
But teams would be salivating over getting him. And whoever traded for him would end up giving him a new deal.
Obviously it's a risk for them, but it's far greater a risk letting a very good QB walk and getting nothing
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And I think im wrong, I think Marshall might have been a tender and trade not a tag
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Brandon Marshall was tagged and traded from Denver. Wasn't Seymour too?
Wasn't Matt Cassel? Franchised and traded for like a second rounder?
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Wasn't Matt Cassel? Franchised and traded for like a second rounder?
Much better example
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I hate to link to BR, but:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1888410-johnny-football-on-nfl-draft-jets-would-definitely-be-a-neat-team-to-go-to
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Do you know how the franchise tag works?
It's the the norm, not the exception, for players who get franchise tagged and traded to get an entirely new contract from their new team. Otherwise what's the point of trading for them? Franchising keeps them off the market and allows for at least some compensation. Some team with cap space will absolutely give a 2nd rounder at the minimum for Cutler
The only time people actually play out their year under that cap # is when the team they're on is just trying to prolong the contract situation and keep them for another year.
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No, by walk they mean walk.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Bears-likely-to-let-Cutler-walk-in-offseason.html
Emery is specifically opposed to franchising a QB and keeping him on the roster, hence his reasoning. But tag and trade is an entirely different story.
There's nothing in that report that indicates that he'd just let go free. It doesn't make a lick of sense when there is a legitimate market for Cutler.
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Assuming we decided to trade for Cutler, and give him a contract similar to Eli/Romo/Rivers/Schaub (the 16-18 million/yr range)
What is the most draft pick wise youd be willing to give up for him?
A 2nd and 3rd ?
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Assuming we decided to trade for Cutler, and give him a contract similar to Eli/Romo/Rivers/Schaub (the 16-18 million/yr range)
What is the most draft pick wise youd be willing to give up for him?
A 2nd and 3rd ?
Probably both of our 3rds
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I'm not gonna speculate on something that has zero chance of happening.
That's a Tanny move, not an Idzik one
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I'm not gonna speculate on something that has zero chance of happening.
That's a Tanny move, not an Idzik one
How do you know?
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I'm not gonna speculate on something that has zero chance of happening.
That's a Tanny move, not an Idzik one
Cutler is going to be 31 this spring.
This is a guy that can play at a very high level for another 5 years, maybe a few more than that if were lucky.
If we were talking about completely selling out the franchises future to win now (ie trading a 1st and 3rd for 38 year old Peyton Manning) that would be a Tanny move.
Here were talking about getting a top 10~ QB for several years.
And hell think of this. If we gave up our 2nd and 3rd for Cutler, that would probably come out to a similar amount of "points" (via the draft trade chart) that we spent drafting Geno.
One guy would be a top 10~ maybe top 15 QB, the other was the worst starter in the entire league.
Im not saying its a likely move, or the best move. But I dont think its completely ridiculous (unless we start talking about paying him over 20 million a year or extreme pick/player trade compensation) to say theres NO chance of it.
I mean how else do you expect him to handle our QB situation ? The Jets have enough talent to wade in mediocrity just missing out on some/many of the best qb prospects in the draft. And heck if Idzik drafts a QB in the first and misses, well then all of a sudden you have a GM who spent an early 1st and an early 2nd on QB busts and a team with no QB.
Truthfully I really think the most likely scenario is that Cutler remains where he is next year, but if not, you gotta want the Jets to jump into the mix at least a little
And now this is purely wishful thinking, but maybe we would even package Geno in a deal for Cutler.
The guy is young, has potential, is under a VERY cheap rookie contract for another 3 years. Im not going to speculate his value, but I do imagine that he is worth something. Then Chicago could go with McCown + Rookie + Geno
Having McCown as a stopgap, and two rookies competing/learning to step in going forward.
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How do you know?
Wanna bet that it doesn't happen? I'll give you 10:1 odds
Idzik isnt going to give up a high or multiple picks AND pay top 5 QB money. Lets not forget Cutler's inability to stay on the field is a huge factor in both acquiring him and the bear's thoughts about keeping him
You're talking a ton of guaranteed money meaning Idzik is gonna hitch the wagon (and his job) to Cutler along with giving up valuable draft picks in a very draft-centric era.
At least if we draft a QB next year we're not considerably financially bound to him if he doesn't have what it takes and give up any additional compensation in addition.
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Wanna bet that it doesn't happen? I'll give you 10:1 odds
Idzik isnt going to give up a high or multiple picks AND pay top 5 QB money. Lets not forget Cutler's inability to stay on the field is a huge factor in both acquiring him and the bear's thoughts about keeping him
You're talking a ton of guaranteed money meaning Idzik is gonna hitch the wagon (and his job) to Cutler along with giving up valuable draft picks in a very draft-centric era.
At least if we draft a QB next year we're not considerably financially bound to him if he doesn't have what it takes and give up any additional compensation in addition.
Of course not, I personally dont believe Cutler even gets a whiff of the market. I think the Bears lock him up, and thats the end of that. But if for some bizarre reason they dont, well then im pretty convinced we will be on the short list of top suitors.
And theres a problem with the "him being paid like a top 5 qb" argument.
The other high end quarterbacks (eli, rivers, Rapist, Stafford) all got 5-6 year contracts in 08/09. Then you got guys like Matt Ryan who havent got their deals yet, and then ones like Brady who took incredibly team friendly contracts.
So if Cutler is getting 18~ million a year, hes really not getting paid like a top 5 QB, not even close.
Youre going to see a ton of guys get inked/extended with huge deals in the next 2 years. Eli, Rapist, Stafford, Ryan, Luck then possibly Newton/Luck/Rivers/RG3/Kaepernick/Wilson
At 18 million/yr Cutler would be closer to the 15th highest paid QB in 2 years time.
1)Rodgers
2)Flacco
3)Brees
4)Peyton
5)Romo
6)Eli
7)Rapist
8)Stafford
9)Ryan
10)Luck
11) Kaepernick
12)Wilson
13) Newton?
14) RG3?
15) Rivers?
16) Brady (who only would be earning less than him because he choose to take a team friendly deal)
(The above names are in no particular order, but are all guys who would be MOST LIKELY earning more than Cutlers 18 million/yr in the next 2 years)
So yeah Cutler for 18 million a year is DEFINITELY not a bad deal. If anything this is the time to lock up a guy like that, because QB prices could get pretty crazy. Especially if guys like Newton/Wilson/Kaep/Luck/Ryan win a superbowl (mvp) either this year or the next 2, will jack up that entire list all the more. I wouldnt be surprised if Rodgers 22m/yr isnt top 5 QB money in 3 years
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Stafford and Ryan already got new deals.
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Of course not, I personally dont believe Cutler even gets a whiff of the market. I think the Bears lock him up, and thats the end of that. But if for some bizarre reason they dont, well then im pretty convinced we will be on the short list of top suitors.
And theres a problem with the "him being paid like a top 5 qb" argument.
The other high end quarterbacks (eli, rivers, Rapist, Stafford) all got 5-6 year contracts in 08/09. Then you got guys like Matt Ryan who havent got their deals yet, and then ones like Brady who took incredibly team friendly contracts.
So if Cutler is getting 18~ million a year, hes really not getting paid like a top 5 QB, not even close.
Youre going to see a ton of guys get inked/extended with huge deals in the next 2 years. Eli, Rapist, Stafford, Ryan, Luck then possibly Newton/Luck/Rivers/RG3/Kaepernick/Wilson
At 18 million/yr Cutler would be closer to the 15th highest paid QB in 2 years time.
1)Rodgers
2)Flacco
3)Brees
4)Peyton
5)Romo
6)Eli
7)Rapist
8)Stafford
9)Ryan
10)Luck
11) Kaepernick
12)Wilson
13) Newton?
14) RG3?
15) Rivers?
16) Brady (who only would be earning less than him because he choose to take a team friendly deal)
(The above names are in no particular order, but are all guys who would be MOST LIKELY earning more than Cutlers 18 million/yr in the next 2 years)
So yeah Cutler for 18 million a year is DEFINITELY not a bad deal. If anything this is the time to lock up a guy like that, because QB prices could get pretty crazy. Especially if guys like Newton/Wilson/Kaep/Luck/Ryan win a superbowl (mvp) either this year or the next 2, will jack up that entire list all the more. I wouldnt be surprised if Rodgers 22m/yr isnt top 5 QB money in 3 years
I still think Cleveland is the best suitor for Cutler, and with the extra first they have the buying power to get him, if it comes to that.
The Jets won't be in the conversation for getting him, IMO.
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Wanna bet that it doesn't happen? I'll give you 10:1 odds
I didn't say that it is likely, nor do I especially want it to (I don't really like Cutler and I don't think he's worth the sort of money you're talking about), I was just asking how you know what an "Idzik move" is when he has no history or track record as a General Manager.
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I didn't say that it is likely, nor do I especially want it to (I don't really like Cutler and I don't think he's worth the sort of money you're talking about), I was just asking how you know what an "Idzik move" is when he has no history or track record as a General Manager.
That's a great point.
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We spent a 2nd on Geno. I'd happily spend a 2nd on Cutler. We'll have some money to throw around, and I would rather spend it on a QB.
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Why does everyone think Cutler will be worth only a 2nd? If he is a "top 10" Qb with the number of teams wanting a top 10 guy, pretty sure the bidding war will require a first round pick at a minimum, and likely a lot more than that.
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Why does everyone think Cutler will be worth only a 2nd? If he is a "top 10" Qb with the number of teams wanting a top 10 guy, pretty sure the bidding war will require a first round pick at a minimum, and likely a lot more than that.
I haven't seen it come up until just now so no, I don't think everyone thinks it'll just take a 2nd.
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Why does everyone think Cutler will be worth only a 2nd? If he is a "top 10" Qb with the number of teams wanting a top 10 guy, pretty sure the bidding war will require a first round pick at a minimum, and likely a lot more than that.
A 2nd round pick in this draft class would have been worth a 1st in last year's class. I honestly don't see a huge bidding war for Cutler, since the teams looking for a QB will be picking in the top 10.
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A 2nd round pick in this draft class would have been worth a 1st in last year's class. I honestly don't see a huge bidding war for Cutler, since the teams looking for a QB will be picking in the top 10.
It only takes two teams to start a bidding war. Not everyone is going to be able to get their guy in the draft.
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It only takes two teams to start a bidding war. Not everyone is going to be able to get their guy in the draft.
I also think that guys in the latter half of the top 10 are not going to see enough quality to want to take a guy, and see the elite ability of some of these weapons in Watkins, Evans, Adams, somebody is going to want a future elite playmaker to pair with a top QB.
If Alex Smith is 2 2's, then Cutler is worth at least that if not more.
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I don't think he'd only get a 2nd
I was saying the most I'd like to see us give up would be our early 2nd and a 3rd this year to land him
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I didn't say that it is likely, nor do I especially want it to (I don't really like Cutler and I don't think he's worth the sort of money you're talking about), I was just asking how you know what an "Idzik move" is when he has no history or track record as a General Manager.
He already made clear what his MO is(value of building through the draft), and he's following the Seattle blueprint pretty clearly.
Whether or not you think he was their groundskeeper or accountant while there doesn't change the fact it's a sustainable model for success and how you build a team. If you left a successful company and took a higher position in a similar company, you'd be naturally inclined to follow the same formula for success.
He traded Revis, signed stop gap players and is trying to collect picks. He's also trying to preserve cap space to resign our young, talented studs (I.E. Wilk, eventualy Coples).
Acquiring Cutler sacrifices both draft picks and cap space assuming he's franchised, which I see as virtually a certainty. The QB class is pretty solid. We'll draft a quarterback well before we give 15 mil a year + a 2nd rounder or more
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He already made clear what his MO is(value of building through the draft), and he's following the Seattle blueprint pretty clearly.
Whether or not you think he was their groundskeeper or accountant while there doesn't change the fact it's a sustainable model for success and how you build a team. If you left a successful company and took a higher position in a similar company, you'd be naturally inclined to follow the same formula for success.
He traded Revis, signed stop gap players and is trying to collect picks. He's also trying to preserve cap space to resign our young, talented studs (I.E. Wilk, eventualy Coples).
Acquiring Cutler sacrifices both draft picks and cap space assuming he's franchised, which I see as virtually a certainty. The QB class is pretty solid. We'll draft a quarterback well before we give 15 mil a year + a 2nd rounder or more
Percy Harvin?
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He already made clear what his MO is(value of building through the draft), and he's following the Seattle blueprint pretty clearly.
Whether or not you think he was their groundskeeper or accountant while there doesn't change the fact it's a sustainable model for success and how you build a team. If you left a successful company and took a higher position in a similar company, you'd be naturally inclined to follow the same formula for success.
He traded Revis, signed stop gap players and is trying to collect picks. He's also trying to preserve cap space to resign our young, talented studs (I.E. Wilk, eventualy Coples).
As has been mentioned before, look at Tanny's first year. Signed stopgaps, drafted 10 players, traded away an overpriced superstar. So while Idzik has followed a conservative blueprint for his first year, I'm not going to assume that's how he'll be every offseason. We're going to have a lot of cap space in 2014.
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He already made clear what his MO is(value of building through the draft), and he's following the Seattle blueprint pretty clearly.
Whether or not you think he was their groundskeeper or accountant while there doesn't change the fact it's a sustainable model for success and how you build a team. If you left a successful company and took a higher position in a similar company, you'd be naturally inclined to follow the same formula for success.
He traded Revis, signed stop gap players and is trying to collect picks. He's also trying to preserve cap space to resign our young, talented studs (I.E. Wilk, eventualy Coples).
Acquiring Cutler sacrifices both draft picks and cap space assuming he's franchised, which I see as virtually a certainty. The QB class is pretty solid. We'll draft a quarterback well before we give 15 mil a year + a 2nd rounder or more
Seattle gave a first and 3rd plus a monster contract for a wide receiver
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They also spent a decent chunk of money on a crappy unproven free agent quarterback
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that's because Seattle was already loaded at every single position except WR/TE. They retained almost every starter on both sides of the ball, had a ton of cheap contracts and a ton of cap
space.
They were in an ideal position to make significant acquisitions. If there was ever a thing as "one piece away" the Seahawks were it.
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It wasn't a 1st and a 3rd. It's a 1st, 7th and "mid round pick". Which more likely means a 4th or 5th
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that's because Seattle was already loaded at every single position except WR/TE. They retained almost every starter on both sides of the ball, had a ton of cheap contracts and a ton of cap
space.
They were in an ideal position to make significant acquisitions. If there was ever a thing as "one piece away" the Seahawks were it.
We have an extra pick from Revis and several comp picks.
If we gave up a 2nd and 3rd we could easily still address wr, te, guard and have resources to reinforce some other weaknesses
Hell if we trade down in the first we could still have complete draft with a pick every round
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We have an extra pick from Revis and several comp picks.
If we gave up a 2nd and 3rd we could easily still address wr, te, guard and have resources to reinforce some other weaknesses
Again if Alex Smith was worth 2 2s without a bidding war when nobody wanted him, in what rational mind is Jay Cutler, who is a guy you claimed has 5+ years left as a top 10 QB in an offseason where several teams are in need of a QB, and there aren't enough first round prospects to go around, worth less than Alex Smith a year ago?
That is pretty irrational thinking IMO. Cutler will never hit the open market, and if he is he is traded, it will be for a minimum of 2 2s and likely will be a 1 and a 3, and possibly even more.
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Smiths trade was during a VERY weak QB class, he was healthier, and most importantly he was under contract for a very very cheap reasonable two more years (7 . 5 million/yr).
Cutler is coming off several injury rattled years, and will effectively be getting close to a UFA contract during a much much better QB draft class
Its certainly possible that he fetches more, but hell there's also people in this thread who think the Bears will just let walk for nothing
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Smiths trade was during a VERY weak QB class, he was healthier, and most importantly he was under contract for a very very cheap reasonable two more years (7 . 5 million/yr).
Cutler is coming off several injury rattled years, and will effectively be getting close to a UFA contract during a much much better QB draft class
Its certainly possible that he fetches more, but hell there's also people in this thread who think the Bears will just let walk for nothing
The contract that cutler will get has nothing to do with what he will fetch on the trade market IMO. His injury history might, but if he closes the year well, it won't matter much.
I still stand by my argument that Cutler will (if traded) fetch at least what A
Ex Smith netted a year ago, and quite possibly more.
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Nothing is Geno's fault and he's our QB for the next decade:
http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/1svtcz/jets_fans_what_are_your_thoughts_on_geno_smith/
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/sports/football/2014-jets-could-copy-11-panthers.html
But before determining whether to spend that pick on a quarterback and not, say, a receiver, the Jets will review every aspect of Smith’s season. They will consider his performance on game days and on the practice field, in the classroom and in film sessions, and project whether Smith will continue to progress at an acceptable rate. Making the right decision could propel the Jets into annual contention. Making the wrong one could stunt their progress for years.
That seemed the Panthers’ fear in 2010. Their shortcomings at quarterback were magnified every time they played a divisional game, against the Saints’ Drew Brees or the Falcons’ Matt Ryan or the Buccaneers’ Josh Freeman, who appeared to be ascending. Rivera indicated that Carolina would have regretted not drafting a quarterback first over all. Marty Hurney, who was fired as the Panthers’ general manager last October, did not respond to a message left on his cellphone.
“I wouldn’t say we were ready to move on from Jimmy,” Rivera said in an interview last week. “I would say that we were ready to find out what he was capable of. At the same time, we couldn’t risk that he was quote-unquote damaged goods or that he wasn’t good enough. That’s why we did what we did.”
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/sports/football/2014-jets-could-copy-11-panthers.html
Yes please
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We really need to get it right.
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I don't get this. What did the Panthers do right?
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I don't get this. What did the Panthers do right?
They got the first pick overall in a year with a good QB.
We're bad at losing correctly
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But didn't they already draft Cam Newton? They don't have the first pick this season.
I'm drunk by the way.
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Let's bring back GJ Kinne and Chris Pizzotti and let them battle for the starting job next year.
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Where I stand right now is:
If one of these QBs falls into your lap (wherever the Jets pick) you take him. If you can manage a reasonable trade-up to get the guy you absolutely feel is "the guy" you should do it. Otherwise, take a receiver and spend the draft building outside the position.
Endure one more year of poor QB play if you have to (if you can't acquire a replacement through trade/free agency) while you get people to throw to and guys to actually protect the pocket. Who knows, maybe Geno could even rebound, though I won't hold my breath.
I'm all for drafting a quarterback, but only if we're absolutely certain it's the guy this organization believes is the real deal. I'd rather make sure we have all the pieces to give a guy in 2015 or 16 every chance at success than draft one more mistake at the most important position.
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McShay's latest mock based on this week's draft order had the Jets taking Sammy Watkins at 13. I would love a new QB but it would be hard to be upset if we got a blue chip receiving talent like him.
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McShay's latest mock based on this week's draft order had the Jets taking Sammy Watkins at 13. I would love a new QB but it would be hard to be upset if we got a blue chip receiving talent like him.
I couldn't complain about that pick unless there were multiple top-tier QB prospects available.
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Not interested in the draft.
Get me a veteran who won't kill us every week. I don't need another year or five of growing pains and excuses. We have a great defensive coach, get me an accurate passer who takes care of the football. Doesn't need to be Brady or Manning, needs to not be another rookie turnover machine.
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Not interested in the draft.
...oh, we know.
How's that Darrelle Revis Lottery Ticket working out for us?
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McShay's latest mock based on this week's draft order had the Jets taking Sammy Watkins at 13. I would love a new QB but it would be hard to be upset if we got a blue chip receiving talent like him.
If his draft is even close to accurate, we're not getting a QB in the first round.
He has a lot of the big time prospects going really high.
I've decided that I'm not going to say anything about which QBs I don't want us to draft because that obviously backfired last offseason.
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If his draft is even close to accurate, we're not getting a QB in the first round.
He has a lot of the big time prospects going really high.
I've decided that I'm not going to say anything about which QBs I don't want us to draft because that obviously backfired last offseason.
How about stating how you would hate the Jets to draft <name some of your favorites>. Turn that prediction excrement right on it's own head.
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If his draft is even close to accurate, we're not getting a QB in the first round.
He has a lot of the big time prospects going really high.
I've decided that I'm not going to say anything about which QBs I don't want us to draft because that obviously backfired last offseason.
[Mr E internal monologue]
dontsaytajhboyddontsaytajhboyddontsaytajhboyd........
[/Mr E internal monologue]
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How about stating how you would hate the Jets to draft <name some of your favorites>. Turn that prediction excrement right on it's own head.
That is my plan and it's what I've been doing.
Derek Carr, Blake Bortles, AJ McCarron, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel, Jimmy Garoppollo, or Keith Wenning
Idzik better lurk on this site.
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[Mr E internal monologue]
dontsaytajhboyddontsaytajhboyddontsaytajhboyd........
[/Mr E internal monologue]
I won't keep those words to myself. I'll be screaming that at my television in May.
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That is my plan and it's what I've been doing.
Derek Carr, Blake Bortles, AJ McCarron, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel, Jimmy Garoppolo, or Keith Wenning
Idzik better lurk on this site.
Positives:
Next Tony Romo
Says "famiglia" instead of "fam"
Negatives:
Balding (https://twitter.com/JimmyG_10/status/412781652252037120)
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Positives:
Next Tony Romo
Say "famiglia" instead of "fam"
Negatives:
Balding (https://twitter.com/JimmyG_10/status/412781652252037120)
Pretty sure his helmet is doing that to his hair, but I will pay closer attention...because if he's really balding, I want nothing to do with him.
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I won't keep those words to myself. I'll be screaming that at my television in May.
Hoepfully he goes top 10 and pushes someone down to us.
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Pretty sure his helmet is doing that to his hair, but I will pay closer attention...because if he's really balding, I want nothing to do with him.
Good thing they don't wear helmets in the pros.
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Good thing they don't wear helmets in the pros.
If his helmet is doing it, it means it's not a physical flaw.
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If his helmet is doing it, it means it's not a physical flaw.
But it could cause a physical flaw. Not all hair loss is hereditary. You can't overlook this kind of thing!
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But it could cause a physical flaw. Not all hair loss is hereditary. You can't overlook this kind of thing!
Stop ruining my QB list!
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...oh, we know.
How's that Darrelle Revis Lottery Ticket working out for us?
Not that great, considering our secondary has been getting toasted all year and Milliner has been benched three times. Unless you think we'd have still taken Milliner instead of Richardson at #9 with Revis under contract.
Unless we have a top of the draft, can't miss QB then I'm not interested in another rookie turning the ball over 30 more times. I've seen the movie enough times now, it's like Rocky, it gets old.
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Not that great, considering our secondary has been getting toasted all year and Milliner has been benched three times. Unless you think we'd have still taken Milliner instead of Richardson at #9 with Revis under contract.
Unless we have a top of the draft, can't miss QB then I'm not interested in another rookie turning the ball over 30 more times. I've seen the movie enough times now, it's like Rocky, it gets old.
A rookie corner isn't as good as Darrelle Revis? Shocking.
We got a potential All-Pro with the first rounder acquired for him, a ton of cap space this offseason, and we still have another draft choice.
It was a good trade for the future of this team.
Every QB will select will turn out to be exactly like Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith. That's definitely realistic.
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A rookie corner isn't as good as Darrelle Revis? Shocking.
We got a potential All-Pro with the first rounder acquired for him, a ton of cap space this offseason, and we still have another draft choice.
It was a good trade for the future of this team.
Every QB will select will turn out to be exactly like Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith. That's definitely realistic.
Whoever we draft will be a rookie next year, which brings the same set of problems we've had here for however long. I haven't given up on Sanchez or Geno, but if you draft a guy in April he will be a rookie in the fall. Truth.
Also, we would have still had Richardson and the cap space had we kept Revis this season and he walked. The difference is we would have had Revis this year when we desperately needed him and would not be in danger of now losing Rex. Lose Rex and the future of the team is real bleak no matter how much cap space or how many draft picks you have. Hall of Famers win you games, not cap space and not future draft picks.
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Whoever we draft will be a rookie next year, which brings the same set of problems we've had here for however long. I haven't given up on Sanchez or Geno, but if you draft a guy in April he will be a rookie in the fall. Truth.
The draft is in May now, and it's not unthinkable for a rookie to play well. Look at what Luck, RG3, and Wilson did last season.
Roethlisberger, Dalton, and Flacco all performed admirably as rookies too.
Hall of Famers win you games, not cap space and not future draft picks.
The last time I checked, there's 11 guys on each side of the ball.
This team wasn't going to win a championship this season, even if Darrelle Revis was on the roster. It's pointless to not build for the future.
Having Revis isn't going to fix the quarterback play, the swiss cheese offensive line, the horrible receiving corps, the safety situation, or the pass rush. Cap space and draft picks can and they will. It takes time.
I guess you're tired of waiting and that's the wrong way to go about things.
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The draft is in May now, and it's not unthinkable for a rookie to play well. Look at what Luck, RG3, and Wilson did last season.
Roethlisberger, Dalton, and Flacco all performed admirably as rookies too.
The last time I checked, there's 11 guys on each side of the ball.
This team wasn't going to win a championship this season, even if Darrelle Revis was on the roster. It's pointless to not build for the future.
I guess you're tired of waiting and that's the wrong way to go about things.
On the flip side, there are people who get so wrapped up in gaming the draft and scouting the next coach they they never care about what's really going on in the present. The future is always a nice carrot you can lay out there but at some point you have to try to win. We just drafted a QB, he's been spotty so now we're eyeing the next QB, the next coach. That's what we've always done and that's why we've never been a consistently winning team. You mentioned mostly guys who went higher in the draft than we're going to be, didn't Luck and RG3 go 1-2 overall?
Sanchez helped us to the AFC Championship Game as a rookie, now we don't want him anymore and he's what, 26? The way the AFC is this year we had a chance without Revis, imagine if we had a secondary to back up our line, which we never had when Revis was here. Again, going forward if he did leave we'd be in about the same shape we are now, except now we'd be fighting for a playoff spot and not worrying about a great coach getting fired.
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I can't
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I can't
You can't what? Have a conversation?
Tell me what we gained. Dee Milliner and a future 3rd round pick? That was worth sabotaging a season for when we had a Hall of Fame corner under contract for $6 million?
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So McShay really loves Bortles... I was thinking he was a second tier prospect with a nice chance of falling to wherever we pick. Unlikely?
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So McShay really loves Bortles... I was thinking he was a second tier prospect with a nice chance of falling to wherever we pick. Unlikely?
His stock is rising, I bet he'd go before we pick.
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Hall of Famers win you games, not cap space and not future draft picks.
Just like Tony Gonzalez, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Champ Bailey, etc
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Hall of Famers win you games, not cap space and not future draft picks.
Hall of Fame Quarterbacks win you games.
If you don't have that you had better have a deep, deep roster with top level talent at multiple positions on both sides of the ball.
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You can't what? Have a conversation?
Actually, I can. I just didn't want to.
One minute you're talking about not drafting a QB because he'll turn the ball over, the next you're complaining about moving on from Mark Sanchez (one of the most turnover prone players in the history of the game).
When I mention six different rookie quarterbacks that have had decent rookie seasons, you disregard four of the six players mentioned.
We'll likely be picking between 9 and 12...
Ben Roethlisberger: 11th overall
Joe Flacco: 18th overall
Andy Dalton: 2nd round
Russell Wilson: 3rd round
I don't care if you don't like the draft, that's your choice. ...but don't try to act teams can't find great talent with draft picks because it takes time for them to develop.
Your boy Darrelle Revis was the 14th overall pick, and you're labeling him as a Hall of Famer (which he is). Where did we land this talent? The NFL Draft. And you're all about the memories lately...can you remember how Revis played as a rookie? He wasn't so great.
Tell me what we gained. Dee Milliner and a future 3rd round pick? That was worth sabotaging a season for when we had a Hall of Fame corner under contract for $6 million?
Where would we be if Darrelle Revis walked after this season? A starting corner down. With Milliner (a player you probably think will never improve, because rookies can't do that) we're ahead of the game with money to spend on other holes...and man, does this team have a hell of a lot of them.
You're conveniently forgetting that we got an All-Pro caliber, Defensive Rookie of the Year front runner with the pick we acquired in the Darrelle Revis trade.
Cap space + Sheldon Richardson + Demarcus Milliner + + a 3rd round pick + time = what we gained
This entire season was about kicking off a rebuilding process that's going to take time. More waiting, man.
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You can't what? Have a conversation?
Tell me what we gained. Dee Milliner and a future 3rd round pick? That was worth sabotaging a season for when we had a Hall of Fame corner under contract for $6 million?
We didn't draft Dee Milliner with the pick we got from the Revis trade. We drafted Sheldon Richardson.
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Just like Tony Gonzalez, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Champ Bailey, etc
.....and Andre Johnson and LaDainian Tomlinson and Dan Marino and Barry Sanders and Eric Dickerson and Ed Reed and...........
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So McShay really loves Bortles... I was thinking he was a second tier prospect with a nice chance of falling to wherever we pick. Unlikely?
His performance in the Fiesta Bowl will clear a lot of things up.
Same thing can be said for Derek Carr in the Las Vegas Bowl this weekend. He's going to have his work cut out for him against Southern Cal's defense...
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We didn't draft Dee Milliner with the pick we got from the Revis trade. We drafted Sheldon Richardson.
He's trying to say that if we didn't trade Revis, the Jets would skip on Milliner at 9 and take Sheldon Richardson instead.
Complete speculation.
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.....and Andre Johnson and LaDainian Tomlinson and Dan Marino and Barry Sanders and Eric Dickerson and Ed Reed and...........
Ed Reed won a SB, but the others are good examples.
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He's trying to say that if we didn't trade Revis, the Jets would skip on Milliner at 9 and take Sheldon Richardson instead.
Complete speculation.
Considering they drafted Wilson into what looked like a stacked group of CBs, I wouldn't assume they'd pass on Milliner if Revis was still around. Especially when he was in imminent danger of leaving after the season.
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Ed Reed won a SB, but the others are good examples.
I refuse to accept that the Ravens won the Super Bowl last year. There's no logical reason that it could have happened.
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Montana
Aikman
Young
Favre
Warner
Elway
Brady
Manning
Rogers
Brees
All HoF QBs that have won at least one Super Bowl
Then there's guys like Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger who will probably get in because of their wins.
Brad Johnson
Joe Flacco
Trent Dilfer
All of these guys had elite defenses
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He's trying to say that if we didn't trade Revis, the Jets would skip on Milliner at 9 and take Sheldon Richardson instead.
Complete speculation.
How is that complete speculation? They took him at #13, if we don't need a corner from the trade there's no need to take Milliner so we take him at #9. The cap space we're going to have we'd still have if Revis walked after his contract ended, so our net gains are Milliner and a #3 pick. Great trade.
Also, you're trying to twist my words, I'm not necessarily arguing to keep Sanchez, although I personally would because we need all the options we can get to compete for the job. I'm simply saying the "no guy like the next guy" mentality is indicative in how we got him, and now we want to draft another one after taking Geno with a #2 and starting him 16 games this year. Yeah, you listed four guys in the history of the NFL who have had success where we're likely to draft, that's great. You know what has a greater history of success? Teams that keep their great players and coaches when they are lucky enough to land them in the first place.
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Considering they drafted Wilson into what looked like a stacked group of CBs, I wouldn't assume they'd pass on Milliner if Revis was still around. Especially when he was in imminent danger of leaving after the season.
That was a different GM. Nobody drafts to replace a guy who might leave next year, not at #9 overall.
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It is complete speculation, in fact, if I recall after the draft I remember reading they had Austin/Milliner/Richardson at the top of their board in that order.
Milliner was an elite prospect throughout the entire process.
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If we'd just taken Tyler Bray instead of William Campbell, none of this would be an issue.
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How is that complete speculation?
There was this dude named Chance Warmack available...
They took him at #13, if we don't need a corner from the trade there's no need to take Milliner so we take him at #9. The cap space we're going to have we'd still have if Revis walked after his contract ended. so our net gains are Milliner and a #3 pick. Great trade.
I already explained this to you and you seemed to overlook it.
If we retained Revis for 2013 and he walked in 2014, we'd have a need at cornerback this offseason. I know you don't like to do it, but it's necessary to look ahead.
Also, you're trying to twist my words, I'm not necessarily arguing to keep Sanchez, although I personally would because we need all the options we can get to compete for the job. I'm simply saying the "no guy like the next guy" mentality is indicative in how we got him, and now we want to draft another one after taking Geno with a #2 and starting him 16 games this year.
I may have misinterpreted, but is this not what you were saying: "Don't draft someone because he'll turn it over. But we gave up on Sanchez and he's still young. I don't want to do that all over again. All rookie QBs are the same."
Yeah, you listed four guys in the history of the NFL who have had success where we're likely to draft, that's great. You know what has a greater history of success? Teams that keep their great players and coaches when they are lucky enough to land them in the first place.
Would you like me to list some more? I can, and it would be just about every current start in the NFL right now.
It isn't luck. It's a process.
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Nobody drafts to replace a guy who might leave next year, not at #9 overall.
Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, and Aaron Rodgers would disagree with this post.
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There was this dude named Chance Warmack available...
I already explained this to you and you seemed to overlook it.
If we retained Revis for 2013 and he walked in 2014, we'd have a need at cornerback this offseason. I know you don't like to do it, but it's necessary to look ahead.
I may have misinterpreted, but is this not what you were saying: "Don't draft someone because he'll turn it over. But we gave up on Sanchez and he's still young. I don't want to do that all over again. All rookie QBs are the same."
Would you like me to list some more? I can, and it would be just about every current start in the NFL right now.
It isn't luck. It's a process.
A lot of it is luck. My point about the QB is whoever you draft will be a rookie so like it or not we're back to square one with "growing pains", "learning process" and "maybe X would be a good mentor". Then when that doesn't work we do it again, all the while we let a great defensive coach and effort go to waste every year. Sorry, I'm tired of that, would rather have a veteran manage the game and not kill us. That doesn't mean don't try to get a guy and bring him along, maybe Geno, but this on the job training excrement is killing us. We need a better option than that.
Regarding the draft, not challenging your expertise but I think you're overthinking it. We know the Jets were ready to take Richardson because they took him four picks later. The only way it doesn't make perfect sense they take him at 9 with one pick and no need for a CB is if you refuse to see it. He was on the board and they wanted him.
Also, if Revis left after this year then we look to replace him, there's another whole off season for that. We still may need a CB as it is now with Milliner here.
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Also, if Revis left after this year then we look to replace him, there's another whole off season for that. We still may need a CB as it is now with Milliner here.
Did you think Darrelle Revis was good when he was a rookie?
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Also, Revis is starting decline because he is balding.
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Also, Revis is starting decline because he is balding.
He isn't balding, he just shutdown his hair.
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McShay graded Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Johnny Manziel, and Blake Bortles higher than he graded Geno Smith last offseason.
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Did you think Darrelle Revis was good when he was a rookie?
Yes, he and Harris were both solid as rookies in 2007 in my opinion. He wasn't an island until Rex got here but he looked better than Milliner this year.
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Hall of Fame Quarterbacks win you games.
If you don't have that you had better have a deep, deep roster with top level talent at multiple positions on both sides of the ball.
Or you need the ability to stop the opponent's Hall of Fame QB like we did to Manning and Brady in the playoffs when we had Revis.
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Yes, he and Harris were both solid as rookies in 2007 in my opinion. He wasn't an island until Rex got here but he looked better than Milliner this year.
So the best man corner of all time was better as a rookie, than our rookie corner.
Thanks for the analysis
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Or you need the ability to stop the opponent's Hall of Fame QB like we did to Manning and Brady in the playoffs when we had Revis.
We stopped Tom Brady and Drew Brees this year without Darrelle Revis.
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We stopped Tom Brady and Drew Brees this year without Darrelle Revis.
Yes we did, kind of what I'm saying. This didn't have to be a throw away year, we had Revis signed for $6 million to play behind this D line. The D showed signs, could've been so much better.
Also, I want to clarify, I'm not against the draft, I understand that's where you get players. That said, we all know it's mostly a crapshoot and that's fine. My issue with the Revis trade is we traded a known quantity for an unknown and didn't really get enough back to justify the loss, even if it was for one season.
To try and justify it by saying we used the pick on Richardson to me is just trying to put a happy face on it because we all know there would've been no need to take Milliner with the other pick. It's a year to year league, especially when Rex's derriere is on the line this year. You had Revis signed, he couldn't even hold out, you play the season with the best team you can and if he walks you take the cap space and replace him then.
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So the best man corner of all time was better as a rookie, than our rookie corner.
Thanks for the analysis
So easy you'd think our GM could have figured it out.
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That is my plan and it's what I've been doing.
Derek Carr, Blake Bortles, AJ McCarron, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel, Jimmy Garoppollo, or Keith Wenning
Idzik better lurk on this site.
Jimmy Gabagool, I'd love him as a QB to develop under a new, QB focused HC. He has to have the smoothest release of any QB this year.
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Jimmy Gabagool, I'd love him as a QB to develop under a new, QB focused HC. He has to have the smoothest release of any QB this year.
I'm so glad the FCS playoffs are televised...or else I wouldn't have been able to see him play live until the Shrine Game.
I love Carr, but Garoppolo might throw a prettier ball...and it's humming too.
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I'm so glad the FCS playoffs are televised...or else I wouldn't have been able to see him play live until the Shrine Game.
I love Carr, but Garoppolo might throw a prettier ball...and it's humming too.
Oh yeah, he can really throw. I think that if Jimmy Goombah (I'm going to keep making bad name jokes until I find one I like) played the exact same way in FBS, he'd probably be in the discussion to be the #1 pick.
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Oh yeah, he can really throw. I think that if Jimmy Goombah (I'm going to keep making bad name jokes until I find one I like) played the exact same way in FBS, he'd probably be in the discussion to be the #1 pick.
Jimmy Capicola
Edit: I just realized you already covered that with gabagool... I am hung over.
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Jimmy Gumbo
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I am partial to Garbagool myself. Do the Jets really want a smelly Italian as a QB? God the only thing I can think that would make an Italian QB worse would be if he wore a giant earring.
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. Do the Jets really want a smelly Italian as a QB? God the only thing I can think that would make an Italian QB worse would be if he wore a giant earring.
After seeing how the Mexican and black QB panned out, I'm willing to go back to Italian. Vinny Testaverde was one of the better QB's in this teams history
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Glad others are mentioning Garoppolo. Guy has a lightning-quick release, it's awesome to watch. That's as important a raw talent as a QB can have.
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After seeing how the Mexican and black QB panned out, I'm willing to go back to Italian. Vinny Testaverde was one of the better QB's in this teams history
Maybe we should go Asian. Bring Timmy Chang back from retirement.
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Glad others are mentioning Garoppolo. Guy has a lightning-quick release, it's awesome to watch. That's as important a raw talent as a QB can have.
Yeah I'm intrigued now, I might see if I can find any of his games on TYT. Anyone have recommendations?
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Yeah I'm intrigued now, I might see if I can find any of his games on TYT. Anyone have recommendations?
I second this.
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After seeing how the Mexican and black QB panned out, I'm willing to go back to Italian. Vinny Testaverde was one of the better QB's in this teams history
So you want a smelly sweaty Italian guy with a big earring as the starting QB of the Jets?
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So you want a smelly sweaty Italian guy with a big earring as the starting QB of the Jets?
No I'd rather watch Geno and Sanchez.
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Eskimo QB.
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Eskimo QB.
With the 13th pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, the New York Jets select Nanook, seal clubber, Nunavut.
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No I'd rather watch Geno and Sanchez.
Do any of them wear a giant earring?
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Do any of them wear a giant earring?
If not I'll be glad to loan one of mine. They come in pairs and I only have the one piercing because I'm an old school 80s Italian. But if they start turning the ball over I'm taking it back.
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Do any of them wear a giant earring?
I could give a excrement if our QB wears pink panties and uggs while he's on the field if he can throw the damn ball to the right team
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If not I'll be glad to loan one of mine. They come in pairs and I only have the one piercing because I'm an old school 80s Italian. But if they start turning the ball over I'm taking it back.
Hahahah of course you were my intended victim but DCM thought I was serious, lol.
I would welcome an Italian QB especially if they're the next coming of Marino or Montana.
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Hahahah of course you were my intended victim but DCM thought I was serious, lol.
I would welcome an Italian QB especially if they're the next coming of Marino or Montana.
Like I'm supposed to know seafood is a cross dresser
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Like I'm supposed to know seafood is a cross dresser
No, I'm an old school 80s Italian, I thought I just made that clear.
Puck was trying to lure me in all morning, little did he know I was late for work because my old dog decided to take an extra slow walk. Something I know he can relate to.
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No, I'm an old school 80s Italian, I thought I just made that clear.
Puck was trying to lure me in all morning, little did he know I was late for work because my old dog decided to take an extra slow walk. Something I know he can relate to.
His dog isn't slow, it just takes ages to get all the ribbons tied.
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Like I'm supposed to know seafood is a cross dresser
Yeah he's old school Italian with a gigantic earring.
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No, I'm an old school 80s Italian, I thought I just made that clear.
Puck was trying to lure me in all morning, little did he know I was late for work because my old dog decided to take an extra slow walk. Something I know he can relate to.
Don't I know it. hahaha
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Don't I know it. hahaha
The ice and road salt throws him off his usual trail.
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Hahahah of course you were my intended victim but DCM thought I was serious, lol.
I would welcome an Italian QB especially if they're the next coming of Marino or Montana.
they're only half eyetalian
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DraftBreakdown.com has several tape breakdowns on Garoppolo. Here's the one against NIU, likely the toughest team they played this season (keep in mind NIU is still bad on defense).
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jimmy-garoppolo-vs-northern-illinois-2013/
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http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2013/lets-play-andrew-luck-whack-mole
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http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2013/lets-play-andrew-luck-whack-mole
Not a huge surprise. Line play has been poor and Geno's incredibly slow brain has been obvious all season, he's holding the ball staring at his first read long after other QBs would be well down the list.
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Not a huge surprise. Line play has been poor and Geno's incredibly slow brain has been obvious all season, he's holding the ball staring at his first read long after other QBs would be well down the list.
Holding on the ball too long has a direct correlation to line play.
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Holding on the ball too long has a direct correlation to line play.
Sure, although there have been a number of occasions where Matt Ryan wouldn't have got the ball out before getting creamed. It isn't always Geno's fault; the QB and the line have taken turns at making each other look even worse than they are.
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DraftBreakdown.com has several tape breakdowns on Garoppolo. Here's the one against NIU, likely the toughest team they played this season (keep in mind NIU is still bad on defense).
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jimmy-garoppolo-vs-northern-illinois-2013/
San Diego State and FCS Towson are better defensively than Northern Illinois. Sorry derriere MAC team...
Some of these throws this kid is making...big time. Deep ball accuracy up there.
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San Diego State and FCS Towson are better defensively than Northern Illinois. Sorry derriere MAC team...
Some of these throws this kid is making...big time. Deep ball accuracy up there.
Honestly, you might be right. Forgot they played San Diego State this season, too.
Big fan of Jimmy G. Was watching a lot of his tape a couple days ago and was going to post about him. His release is football porn.
People question his arm strength and competition level. The competition level is a legitimate factor obviously, but he's got the tools. And his arm strength is adequate. His release is fast enough where it makes up for any lack of arm strength. I'd rather have someone with a quick release and average arm strength than someone with a cannon and a Tebow/Leftwich-like release.
His fade route in the back corner of the end zone is just gorgeous.
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I watched several videos: His release is amazing and his arm strength looks fine to me. The one thing I think he does that is a huge negative is he stares at his first option too much and I see a lot of defenders that read his eyes. His release is such that they can't get there in time.
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I watched several videos: His release is amazing and his arm strength looks fine to me. The one thing I think he does that is a huge negative is he stares at his first option too much and I see a lot of defenders that read his eyes. His release is such that they can't get there in time.
That's the other issue, him staring down his first read. I think he's a developmental prospect that may need a few years on the bench. That's my one negative with him. I wouldn't feel too comfortable with him starting next season.
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The one thing I think he does that is a huge negative is he stares at his first option too much and I see a lot of defenders that read his eyes.
A lot of these spread offenses are killing the ability to make progressions. It's a big reason why I didn't like Geno Smith coming out.
Garoppolo can make every throw and a lot of them are on the money. Smith was very accurate at WVU, but his deep ball was incredibly inconsistent. I don't see much inconsistency in Garoppolo's game.
His release is such that they can't get there in time.
I really hope he's a late addition to the Senior Bowl roster, because I'm interested in seeing him against top competition.
The talent level and the speed of the game at the FCS may be making him look better than he is.
But mechanically, he's sound and that's a big thing.
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That's the other issue, him staring down his first read. I think he's a developmental prospect that may need a few years on the bench. That's my one negative with him. I wouldn't feel too comfortable with him starting next season.
The jump between the speed of what he sees and the NFL is probably much higher than the jump between top prospects and the NFL, right? I can't see any team in the NFL drafting him with the plan to start 16 games in 2014. But if his release and arm are as good as you all are saying he sounds like a perfect guy to bring along slowly.
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That's the other issue, him staring down his first read. I think he's a developmental prospect that may need a few years on the bench. That's my one negative with him. I wouldn't feel too comfortable with him starting next season.
It would be foolish for us to play any rookie QB right away, but he needs time on the bench more than just about any of them.
Sign a veteran, let Garoppolo and Smith battle it out for the #2 spot. When this stop gap player (Josh McCown/Jason Campbell/Matt Flynn) is through, plug in whatever QB is further along.
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The jump between the speed of what he sees and the NFL is probably much higher than the jump between top prospects and the NFL, right? I can't see any team in the NFL drafting him with the plan to start 16 games in 2014. But if his release and arm are as good as you all are saying he sounds like a perfect guy to bring along slowly.
I can't imagine that either, but given the crap platter we have at quarterback right now, you never know.
The best thing this team can do if we draft him is go with Jimmy G, Geno, and a veteran like a Matt Schaub type. Let them all compete to be the starter with the expectation that whichever veteran we sign (McCown/Schaub) will likely start.
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That's the other issue, him staring down his first read. I think he's a developmental prospect that may need a few years on the bench. That's my one negative with him. I wouldn't feel too comfortable with him starting next season.
A lot of these spread offenses are killing the ability to make progressions. It's a big reason why I didn't like Geno Smith coming out.
Garoppolo can make every throw and a lot of them are on the money. Smith was very accurate at WVU, but his deep ball was incredibly inconsistent. I don't see much inconsistency in Garoppolo's game.
I really hope he's a late addition to the Senior Bowl roster, because I'm interested in seeing him against top competition.
The talent level and the speed of the game at the FCS may be making him look better than he is.
But mechanically, he's sound and that's a big thing.
Yeah that is the one negative thing that stands out to me. Everything else looks pretty good, he has good pocket awareness, he can feel the rush and you can tell he has that internal clock in his head but not such that he is scared to stay there. His fade is really sweet and his passes deep and the the sideline are very catchable/accurate.
If he is drafted by the Jets, it would be a huge mistake to start him right away. He would benefit from a year or two on the bench. You can't teach that release, that is better than 95% pro QB release. If he is coachable as far as staring down his first read this guy has some serious talent. Plus he isn't a midget.
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Is there a college QB who doesn't stare down their first read? I feel like I hear that about every prospect.
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Is there a college QB who doesn't stare down their first read? I feel like I hear that about every prospect.
Those that don't either go top 5 in the draft or don't have strong enough arms to make it.
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Is there a college QB who doesn't stare down their first read? I feel like I hear that about every prospect.
Very few anymore. I hate college football for the fact that the schemes make players look better than they are, not to mention the difference in talent level for most games. There is a reason pro style college quarterbacks immediately garner more recognition.
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Those that don't either go top 5 in the draft or don't have strong enough arms to make it.
What about Cam Newton?
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There is a reason pro style college quarterbacks immediately garner more recognition.
Again:
What about Cam Newton, Robert Griffin III, Sam Bradford, Vince Young, Alex Smith, and Michael Vick?
Yeah, there's guys like the Mannings, Luck, Carr, Russell, and Palmer...but the league is evolving.
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I hate college football for the fact that the schemes make players look better than they are
"I hate variety and coaching"
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What about Cam Newton?
What about him? I was answering a question about quarterbacks who don't stare down their first reads. Not sure how Newton is relevant. Vince Young was also drafted top 5. Like Newton, he's irrelevant to this discussion.
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I was answering a question about quarterbacks who don't stare down their first reads.
Cam Newton didn't make multiple reads at Auburn and he went #1 overall.
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Again:
What about Cam Newton, Robert Griffin III, Sam Bradford, Vince Young, Alex Smith, and Michael Vick?
Yeah, there's guys like the Mannings, Luck, Carr, Russell, and Palmer...but the league is evolving.
What about them? For everyone of them there are 10 others that didn't produce. You get a COMPARABLE athletic or talented prospects, the pro style prospect is going to GARNER more recognition.
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"I hate variety and coaching"
Don't put words in my mouth, especially when you don't quote the whole sentence. They coach the scheme they do because it works in college. Very few college schemes work in the pros, and that is what we are talking about, the pros.
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What about them? For everyone of them there are 10 others that didn't produce. You get a COMPARABLE athletic or talented prospects, the pro style prospect is going to GARNER more recognition.
No excrement, man. But those guys that didn't produce weren't elite NFL prospects like the names mentioned.
I think it's safe to say that most of take Cam Newton over just about any pro-style prospect.
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Don't put words in my mouth, especially when you don't quote the whole sentence. They coach the scheme they do because it works in college. Very few college schemes work in the pros, and that is what we are talking about, the pros.
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I just reinterpreted what you said.
You said you hate college football because of the schemes and the lesser talent. Stop and think for a second. Maybe these schemes are used to get more out of lesser talent...because as we all know, only a small percentage of NCAA football players make it to the next level.
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No excrement, man. But those guys that didn't produce weren't elite NFL prospects like the names mentioned.
I think it's safe to say that most of take Cam Newton over just about any pro-style prospect.
IIRC, you are saying that there have been no first round busts?
Of course, I would take Cam Newton right now. He is an athletic freak that are far and in between at the quarterback position. However, you take any analyst, including us arm chair GM's, they/we always ask how they will take to the pro style offense. Always!
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IIRC, you are saying that there have been no first round busts?
No, I'm just pointing out spread and/or dual-threat QBs that NFL teams preferred over pro-style passer.
We've seen busts in both groups.
However, you take any analyst, including us arm chair GM's, they/we always ask how they will take to the pro style offense. Always!
I think that's changed over the past three to five seasons. Teams are realizing that you can build around a mobile passer and change of the defense a bit.
Carolina and Seattle did it the right way. You don't try to plug a square peg into a round hole. You let those QBs play in a system that fits their ability.
Schemes are changing in the NFL. It's part of an evolving game.
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I'm not putting words in your mouth. I just reinterpreted what you said.
You said you hate college football because of the schemes and the lesser talent. Stop and think for a second. Maybe these schemes are used to get more out of lesser talent...because as we all know, only a small percentage of NCAA football players make it to the next level.
You reinterpreted what I said. That is putting words my mouth.
I said I hate college football because of the schemes and the greater talent vs the lesser talent. ("difference in talent in most games") First team that comes to mind is Oregon. They are going to be the greater talent most of the time, and have a different style scheme to take advantage of that talent. I works in college, and I am not saying that they shouldn't do that. They should do that.
That being said, you give a game with two equally matched opponents (rare as it may be), I truly enjoy watching the kids put everything they have into them. I don't like watching 70-0 games, sorry.
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The triple option used to be the offense teams would go to when they had less talent. Now it's the spread, because you get more athletes on the field and you're not a one-dimensional offense with it.
A lot of what these coaches are doing is taking an old school option offense and moving it into the shotgun. It's innovation and it's changed the game for the better.
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You reinterpreted what I said. That is putting words my mouth.
I said I hate college football because of the schemes and the greater talent vs the lesser talent. ("difference in talent in most games") First team that comes to mind is Oregon. They are going to be the greater talent most of the time, and have a different style scheme to take advantage of that talent. I works in college, and I am not saying that they shouldn't do that. They should do that.
That being said, you give a game with two equally matched opponents (rare as it may be), I truly enjoy watching the kids put everything they have into them. I don't like watching 70-0 games, sorry.
That scheme that Oregon runs is working out pretty well in the NFL this year.
And their roster isn't that talented. They've got speed, but physical teams take it to them every time. You just don't see much of that out west. Stanford is a rare breed out there. USC looks like they might be back too.
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No, I'm just pointing out spread and/or dual-threat QBs that NFL teams preferred over pro-style passer.
We've seen busts in both groups.
I am not arguing that, am I? I am saying that a pro style passer is going to receive more recognition for their playing style. If you were to pit Cam Newton vs Peyton Manning for the same team in the same year, who would you take?
I think that's changed over the past three to five seasons. Teams are realizing that you can build around a mobile passer and change of the defense a bit.
Carolina and Seattle did it the right way. You don't try to plug a square peg into a round hole. You let those QBs play in a system that fits their ability.
Schemes are changing in the NFL. It's part of an evolving game.
I would agree with you, and it is evident by several college coaches getting an opportunity to try their philosophies. Most turn out to be Steve Spurrier. I am rooting for Chip Kelly though, because it is fun to watch. However, I don't think a mobile passer makes a sterotypical scheme player. All spread or dual threat QB's are going have to successful as a prototypical passer as well, wouldn't they?
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That scheme that Oregon runs is working out pretty well in the NFL this year.
And their roster isn't that talented. They've got speed, but physical teams take it to them every time. You just don't see much of that out west. Stanford is a rare breed out there. USC looks like they might be back too.
What does that have to do with my opinion on college football? I never said I don't like scheme changes at the pro level where the talent, for the most part, is equal.
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If you were to pit Cam Newton vs Peyton Manning for the same team in the same year, who would you take?
You would take Peyton Manning because he's the best quarterback prospect ever, but if you put Newton up against just about every other #1 pick since Manning (except for maybe Luck and Vick), Newton has them.
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What does that have to do with my opinion on college football?
Hating something because there's a huge range of talent mixed through 120+ FBS teams (and god knows how many FCS, Division II, and Division III teams) doesn't make sense to me.
Of course there's going to be blowouts when a major program plays a lesser known, smaller school. And with so many teams and different coaches, there's going to be different offenses and defenses run.
There's only so much major talent to go around. The NFL gets the best of the best. There's 32 teams built with the cream of the crop, so the competition level will be much closer. Any given Sunday.
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Hating something because there's a huge range of talent mixed through 120+ FBS teams (and god knows how many FCS, Division II, and Division III teams) doesn't make sense to me.
Of course there's going to be blowouts when a major program plays a lesser known, smaller school. And with so many teams and different coaches, there's going to be different offenses and defenses run.
There's only so much major talent to go around. The NFL gets the best of the best. There's 32 teams built with the cream of the crop, so the competition level will be much closer. Any given Sunday.
Did I ever ask you to adopt my opinion?
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Did I ever ask you to adopt my opinion?
No, I'm just telling you that if you're watching this sport that way, you're doing it wrong.
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No, I'm just telling you that if you're watching this sport that way, you're doing it wrong.
ROFL
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(http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/52/32/1905c1290569414900508712ecad9113-micdrop06.gif)
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(http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/52/32/1905c1290569414900508712ecad9113-micdrop06.gif)
Not even close son. I just didn't feel like getting into the your opinion or the highway argument that you are already having with other people. I don't care enough about your opinion.
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Don't put words in my mouth bruh
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And their roster isn't that talented. They've got speed, but physical teams take it to them every time. You just don't see much of that out west. Stanford is a rare breed out there. USC looks like they might be back too.
I don't want to interrupt the pointless argument going on in here, but I'm pretty excited (!!!!!) about Sarkisian coming back.
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I don't want to interrupt the pointless argument going on in here, but I'm pretty excited (!!!!!) about Sarkisian coming back.
It's over, yo
Just doing my part
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I don't want to interrupt the pointless argument going on in here, but I'm pretty excited (!!!!!) about Sarkisian coming back.
Armenian Armada?
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000301440/article/bears-gm-says-franchise-tag-still-an-option-to-keep-jay-cutler
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Misleading title
This stands out though:
Cutler has repeatedly said he wants to remain in Chicago and even said he would be fine with the initial franchise tag.
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Id say Cutlers chances of leaving the Bears is less than Sanchez's of returning to the Jets
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A name I haven't seen mentioned. But Chad Henne is a free agent.
And with the jaguars likely drafting a QB early might not be interested in returning
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A name I haven't seen mentioned. But Chad Henne is a free agent.
And with the jaguars likely drafting a QB early might not be interested in returning
nah
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nah
He had a decent season till Blackmon went full retard
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Id say Cutlers chances of leaving the Bears is less than Sanchez's of returning to the Jets
I'd rather the Jets try and get Eli than Cutler anyway.
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I'd rather the Jets try and get Eli than Cutler anyway.
Man, are you freaking serious?
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Man, are you freaking serious?
I think he's lacking in ambition. I will be calling for Idzik's head if he doesn't do everything necessary to land Cam Newton.
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Man, are you freaking serious?
he's not Sanchez
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I think he's lacking in ambition. I will be calling for Idzik's head if he doesn't do everything necessary to land Cam Newton.
You've been calling for Idzik's head ever since he "mispent" (in your opinion) the 95 cents worth of cap space he had this season.
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You've been calling for Idzik's head ever since he "mispent" (in your opinion) the 95 cents worth of cap space he had this season.
No I haven't, but you are the master of reading what you think people have written.
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No I haven't, but you are the master of reading what you think people have written.
You did whine about Landry a bit, excrement over all our fa moves (d Landry, colon, Goodson, Winslow) and absolutely hated our draft.
If someone thinks you hate Idzik, I could easily see why
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No I haven't, but you are the master of reading what you think people have written.
Keep telling yourself that
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JE hasn't been calling for Idzik's head, he's just been saying that his first season has been far from impressive.
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JE hasn't been calling for Idzik's head, he's just been saying that his first season has been far from impressive.
His whining about Idzik is well documented
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JE hasn't been calling for Idzik's head, he's just been saying that his first season has been far from impressive.
Hurrah. The art of comprehension clearly is not yet dead.
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His whining about Idzik is well documented
There is a difference between "he not done good so far" and "he need fired". I'm sorry you're struggling with that, I'll bear it in mind in the future and attempt to write in single syllable words for you. If some of them are still a bit difficult for you to understand just let me know and I'll try to simplify further for you.
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HE NEEED FIRE!
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There is a difference between "he not done good so far" and "he need fired". I'm sorry you're struggling with that, I'll bear it in mind in the future and attempt to write in single syllable words for you. If some of them are still a bit difficult for you to understand just let me know and I'll try to simplify further for you.
No need to shed tears, frodo. I don't really care that much.
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
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Way too early to judge the Idz. One draft and a cash-strapped free agency.
If Idzik makes some great moves with the free money next season and has a couple nice drafts coming up, then we'll look back at this year as a transitional year in which was necessary to reach our ultimate goal. Particularly if Geno actually becomes a long-term solution.
If Idzik sucks at free agency and has a couple bad drafts (especially if Milliner is average at best), we'll look back at this season as a waste of time and point to it as proof that Idzik isn't a great GM.
Too early to judge either way. There have been times this season where you see one free agent signing get arrested then promptly injured (Goodson), one 4th-round pick spent on a guy who can't stay healthy (Ivory). one good player from the draft (Sheldon), and no real impact free agent signings to speak of.
Other times, you see Goodson show flashes, Barnes show flashes, Winslow look like a nice low-risk signing, Milliner looking like he'll be very good one day and possibly Geno, too.
Impossible to tell after one season, particularly a season when his resources were as strapped as they were.
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There is a difference between "he not done good so far" and "he need fired". I'm sorry you're struggling with that, I'll bear it in mind in the future and attempt to write in single syllable words for you. If some of them are still a bit difficult for you to understand just let me know and I'll try to simplify further for you.
Hahahahaha yes please.
Good soup hot.
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Today changes everything for me this Geno guy is a keeper. There is no need to draft another qb Geno is the franchise.
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Erm
Heres another name that kind of came out of left field. Didnt think he would be available
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6424/jake-locker
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Titans aren't expected to pick up Jake Locker's $13 million club option in 2015.
Locker has a minuscule $2.09 million salary for 2014, but teams exercising the fifth-year option for a top-ten draft pick have to pay him a salary equal to the NFL transition tag. The Titans are going to be in the market for a quarterback after the season. Locker can't stay healthy and has been up-and-down as a pro. Rapoport expects the Titans to go after Jay Cutler. Dec 8 - 10:27 AM
The Titans also have a top 10 pick if Cutler doesnt hit free agency.
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^ We've talked about Locker getting released in this thread before.
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^ We've talked about Locker getting released in this thread before.
Damn search function didnt show it.
Its funny reading the Bears forums how MOST of them think Cutler is gone if he has a bad game next week.
(which was how I read about the Locker thing, since theyre discussing replacing him with Cutler)
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Damn search function didnt show it.
Its funny reading the Bears forums how MOST of them think Cutler is gone if he has a bad game next week.
(which was how I read about the Locker thing, since theyre discussing replacing him with Cutler)
Wouldn't be shocked at all to see them move forward with Josh McCown and let a mid-round rookie develop behind him.
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Erm
Heres another name that kind of came out of left field. Didnt think he would be available
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6424/jake-locker
The Titans also have a top 10 pick if Cutler doesnt hit free agency.
I believe I may have made passing mention of this before. Far preferable to Cutler, IMO.
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I never liked Locker as a pro in college (at least as a first round pick). Figured he would need time to develop if he ever became anything.
Well, he's had some time to develop, and he was playing very well earlier this season. I'm not sold on him as the long-term answer, and neither are the Titans, or they would find a way to keep him around.
Bringing in Locker gives us a chance at finding a long-term answer, while still developing Geno. Especially given his injury history..
I don't love Locker, but he's cheaper than Cutler, and he may be a better fit.
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I would prefer Locker any day of the week. If the Jets are going to make a mistake with a free agent QB, I would prefer the much cheaper option. In the beginning of the season Locker was on a tack that was very promising. Not too mention he was accurate and wasn't a freaking turnover machine like that dick in Chicago.
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Well, Locker was accurate against the Jets, but other than that...
His biggest problem besides staying healthy is accuracy.
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Well, Locker was accurate against the Jets, but other than that...
His biggest problem besides staying healthy is accuracy.
That's why I never thought he'd be a great pro. I wouldn't trust him as the long-term answer, but he'd be a great option to bring in if they still think Geno had a legitimate chance at being the long-term guy.
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I'm still in favor of the "play Geno next year after drafting someone to sit and learn" methodology.
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I'm still in favor of the "play Geno next year after drafting someone to sit and learn" methodology.
If he delivers another good performance this Sunday, I'd like to see them bolster the offensive supporting cast in the early rounds and take a QB somewhere in the middle rounds. That way he's given a better opportunity to succeed but we'll still have a contingency plan. I wish they did that for Sanchez.
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If he delivers another good performance this Sunday, I'd like to see them bolster the offensive supporting cast in the early rounds and take a QB somewhere in the middle rounds. That way he's given a better opportunity to succeed but we'll still have a contingency plan. I wish they did that for Sanchez.
Especially if the 2015 generation of college QB's turns out to be good. If we freak up then we have the foundation to plug and play a talented guy, if we don't then we are set up for he future.
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Well, Locker was accurate against the Jets, but other than that...
His biggest problem besides staying healthy is accuracy.
I was just going by the beginning of the season where he didn't have a turnover in the first 4-5 games. He was looking like he turned a corner, then got injured again.
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If he delivers another good performance this Sunday, I'd like to see them bolster the offensive supporting cast in the early rounds and take a QB somewhere in the middle rounds. That way he's given a better opportunity to succeed but we'll still have a contingency plan. I wish they did that for Sanchez.
After that 7 game stretch, I just can't trust that guy even with a good a game against the Fins. Anyway, the point is moot, Geno hasn't put a 2 game stretch of good QB play together yet, chances are he wont.
Yeah that is a dare to Geno.
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If he delivers another good performance this Sunday, I'd like to see them bolster the offensive supporting cast in the early rounds and take a QB somewhere in the middle rounds. That way he's given a better opportunity to succeed but we'll still have a contingency plan. I wish they did that for Sanchez.
I've been assuming they'd do something like this for a while. My gut instinct is to believe that Rex, Marty, and Geno all get a second year working together with the pieces that Idzik is able to pull together with the cap room/draft picks. If the team underperforms, the coaching staff and QB is overhauled for 2015.
I'm not going to be upset if Rex leaves, but I think Idzik works with him for another year.
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If he delivers another good performance this Sunday, I'd like to see them bolster the offensive supporting cast in the early rounds and take a QB somewhere in the middle rounds. That way he's given a better opportunity to succeed but we'll still have a contingency plan. I wish they did that for Sanchez.
My honest opinion is still that Geno isn't the answer. That said, I'd rather he started next year while we groom another guy in the background. I'd rather not sacrifice huge money and/or picks for a guy like Cutler unless next year is a "win it all or bust" year.
I'd rather sacrifice a year with a low-pay guy (Geno), while putting the talent on offense outside of the QB position, and groom a new heir for 2015.
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Given where the Jets are likely to be drafting, I think bolstering the roster with more talented skill position players is a better play than trading up for a QB this season. If a top talent falls to the Jets' position then they should definitely take him but if not than bringing in someone like Lee, Ebron or even a high end talent guard or tackle would be a better move to me.
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One thing I have to say about Geno. 50% of his interceptions were due to his receivers being COMPLETELY incapable of separation combined with horrid pass protection.
Yesterday we saw that when allowed to stay in the pocket, he can identify a guy if said guy gets separation, and rifle it in with some reasonable accuracy. He has also been using his legs more of late, which he appears quite capable of doing.
I still don't like the guy, but if he had played every game that well, which again relies on his line protecting him and guys actually getting open, we'd be having a very different discussion in this thread.
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I still don't like the guy, but if he had played every game that well, which again relies on his line protecting him and guys actually getting open, we'd be having a very different discussion in this thread.
It was more than just his supporting cast playing better, Geno looked like a different player too. There were a few plays yesterday when the pressure was coming around the corner and he just stepped up in the pocket and threw the ball. For most of the season he was just compounding the pressure with bad decisions like running backwards.
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One thing I have to say about Geno. 50% of his interceptions were due to his receivers being COMPLETELY incapable of separation combined with horrid pass protection.
Yesterday we saw that when allowed to stay in the pocket, he can identify a guy if said guy gets separation, and rifle it in with some reasonable accuracy. He has also been using his legs more of late, which he appears quite capable of doing.
I still don't like the guy, but if he had played every game that well, which again relies on his line protecting him and guys actually getting open, we'd be having a very different discussion in this thread.
As much as yesterday doesn't really change my opinion about Geno as the long-term solution, if he'd have played all year like he did yesterday, this thread doesn't exist and we're talking in a 61-page thread about who we're drawing in the first round of the playoffs.
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It was more than just his supporting cast playing better, Geno looked like a different player too. There were a few plays yesterday when the pressure was coming around the corner and he just stepped up in the pocket and threw the ball. For most of the season he was just compounding the pressure with bad decisions like running backwards.
True. Maybe him and MM finally had that teachable moment?
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As much as yesterday doesn't really change my opinion about Geno as the long-term solution, if he'd have played all year like he did yesterday, this thread doesn't exist and we're talking in a 61-page thread about who we're drawing in the first round of the playoffs.
Yeah, and how nice it's going to be to win the division. I agree completely.
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True. Maybe him and MM finally had that teachable moment?
Impossible.
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Comparison of Sanchez and Geno's rookie years (Geno obviously has 1 game left) - from the JetsBlog
Obviously Smith has one game to go, but Sanchez did miss a game (and half of another game) through injury. Of course, Smith was benched a couple of times too. Ultimately, Geno has played 935 snaps and Sanchez played 960 (in the regular season), so it more or less washes out.
So, let’s compare:
Completion percentage – Smith 55%, Sanchez 54%
Yardage – Smith 2856, Sanchez 2444
TD/INT – Smith 12/21, Sanchez 12/20
Yards per attempt – Smith 6.9, Sanchez 6.7
Sacked – Smith 43 times, Sanchez 26 times
Fumbles – Smith 8 (lost 4), Sanchez 10 (lost 3)
Rushing – Smith 62-322-5TD, Sanchez 36-106-3TD
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They both sucked as rookies.
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They both sucked as rookies.
My Shitty Quarterbacks
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My Shitty Quarterbacks
To be fair, one had the best OL, rushing attack, and defense in football, while the other has a bad OL, mediocre at best running game, and only an above average defense.
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To be fair, one had the best OL, rushing attack, and defense in football, while the other has a bad OL, mediocre at best running game, and only an above average defense.
I certainly havent been a fan of Geno this season, but there is a huge difference between his play when Kerley is, and isnt on the field. To be honest, Kerley is a solid player, but he isnt a great player. He's the only one that can actually get open though. Id like to add a QB in the draft, but if we dont and actually surround Geno with talent, I wouldnt be completely discouraged.
Some quick stats:
With Kerley-
10 Games, 12 TDs, 12 INTs, 4 Rush TDs, 227 YPG, 60.3%
Without Kerley-
5 Games, 0 TDs, 8 INTs, 1 Rush TD, 118 YPG, 40.4%
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I certainly havent been a fan of Geno this season, but there is a huge difference between his play when Kerley is, and isnt on the field. To be honest, Kerley is a solid player, but he isnt a great player. He's the only one that can actually get open though. Id like to add a QB in the draft, but if we dont and actually surround Geno with talent, I wouldnt be completely discouraged.
Some quick stats:
With Kerley-
10 Games, 12 TDs, 12 INTs, 4 Rush TDs, 227 YPG, 60.3%
Without Kerley-
5 Games, 0 TDs, 8 INTs, 1 Rush TD, 118 YPG, 40.4%
Not sure what the 5th game you counted for Kerley not playing in (New Orleans? when he got hurt?) but the 4 games that nfl.com says he didnt play in at all (Baltimore, NE, Buf, Miami)
3 of them were on the road, and the 4th was vs Miami (all of these teams have very good defense, Bills/Miami/NE are top 8 for forced turnovers, baltimore is top 8 scoring defense)
And this offense has been horrifically bad on the road in every game this season (minus @ Atlanta), not just games in which Kerley missed.
For example there were 4 other road games we played with Kerley.
The Atlanta game which Geno was great, and then the other 3 (Carolina, Cinci, Titans) Geno had three pick 6s, a fumble recovered for a defensive td, and total 2 tds 5 ints 2 lost fumbles.
Geno has been absolutely horrific on the road period. So the numbers with vs without Kerley might be a little skewed
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Rex's teams have been terrible on the road in general. Something about road games, and games after a BYE week.
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Rex's teams have been terrible on the road in general. Something about road games, and games after a BYE week.
It's not his fault.
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Rex's teams have been terrible on the road in general. Something about road games, and games after a BYE week.
Young/bad QBs struggled on the road.
Andrew luck 2012
Home- 12 tds - 5 ints
Road- 11 tds - 13 ints
Joe Flacco 2013
Home-
10 tds 8 ints 81.7 rating
8 td 11 int 69 rating- away
Brees 2013
23 tds 3 ints 122.5 rating
12 tds, 9 ints, 84.8 rating
So on and so on
And considering that our offenses is/are weaker than most, and our qb is/are worse than most its going to be even worse than with a good QB
So it might look like Rexs teams suck on the road (which could certainly be true) but think it has to do with QB the most
Then again some QBs have relatively stable home/away stats so i guess it depends on the player
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Young/bad QBs struggled on the road.
Andrew luck 2012
Home- 12 tds - 5 ints
Road- 11 tds - 13 ints
Joe Flacco 2013
Home-
10 tds 8 ints 81.7 rating
8 td 11 int 69 rating- away
Brees 2013
23 tds 3 ints 122.5 rating
12 tds, 9 ints, 84.8 rating
So on and so on
And considering that our offenses is/are weaker than most, and our qb is/are worse than most its going to be personified
So it might look like Rexs teams suck on the road (which could certainly be true) but think it has to do with QB the most
Then again some QBs have relatively stable home/away stats so i guess it depends on the player
freak you.
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Not sure what the 5th game you counted for Kerley not playing in (New Orleans? when he got hurt?) but the 4 games that nfl.com says he didnt play in at all (Baltimore, NE, Buf, Miami)
3 of them were on the road, and the 4th was vs Miami (all of these teams have very good defense, Bills/Miami/NE are top 8 for forced turnovers, baltimore is top 8 scoring defense)
And this offense has been horrifically bad on the road in every game this season (minus @ Atlanta), not just games in which Kerley missed.
For example there were 4 other road games we played with Kerley.
The Atlanta game which Geno was great, and then the other 3 (Carolina, Cinci, Titans) Geno had three pick 6s, a fumble recovered for a defensive td, and total 2 tds 5 ints 2 lost fumbles.
Geno has been absolutely horrific on the road period. So the numbers with vs without Kerley might be a little skewed
Thats a good point, but I still think the pattern would definitely hold true (although maybe not as drastic). I didnt count the Saints game because he got hurt on his first target very early in the game. The other 10 games Geno faced 7 top 15 defenses. I certainly have not been impressed by Geno Smith so far though. He has a very hard time getting off his first read, and his internal clock has not been good to say the least. But, if the Jets choose not to add a significant player at QB, while adding talent to the rest of the O, it might not be that terrible...
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But, if the Jets choose not to add a significant player at QB, while adding talent to the rest of the O, it might not be that terrible...
I have some thoughts on this as well, but I want to see how he plays against Miami on Sunday before I put them out there.
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I have some thoughts on this as well, but I want to see how he plays against Miami on Sunday before I put them out there.
Well if we get a new OC (ie Rex is fired), im writing Geno off as FUCKED for next season. Not that I think MM is a genius or anything, but Geno isnt exactly that bright and learning the offense/reading defenses seems to be complicated enough for him as is.
If we bring in a whole new offense/playbook/oc/QB coach id expect next year to be a learning year for him and to look very similar to this one.
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Well if we get a new OC (ie Rex is fired), im writing Geno off as FUCKED for next season. Not that I think MM is a genius or anything, but Geno isnt exactly that bright and learning the offense/reading defenses seems to be complicated enough for him as is.
If we bring in a whole new offense/playbook/oc/QB coach id expect next year to be a learning year for him and to look very similar to this one.
I want to wait to see how this entire season plays out.
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I have some thoughts on this as well, but I want to see how he plays against Miami on Sunday before I put them out there.
Yeah I agree, even though one game shouldnt matter a whole lot. If he finishes the season on a decent 4 game stretch, it might provide a little hope. Id still love someone like Carr in the 1st, but it might be beneficial to grab someone like Evans/Amaro/Adams in the 1st and then a QB for competition in the 3rd or 4th (Boyd, Mettenberger, McCarron or Garoppolo maybe).
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Yeah I agree, even though one game shouldnt matter a whole lot. If he finishes the season on a decent 4 game stretch, it might provide a little hope. Id still love someone like Carr in the 1st, but it might be beneficial to grab someone like Evans/Amaro/Adams in the 1st and then a QB for competition in the 3rd or 4th (Boyd, Mettenberger, McCarron or Garoppolo maybe).
I think Tajh Boyd is worse off than Geno Smith coming into the league, and Zach Mettenberger won't provide much competition after the ACL injury. He'll probably be out until at least mid-August. McCarron and Garoppolo would be awesome.
Really hoping we end up with Derek Carr or Blake Bortles in the first though.
Not sure I would even call the OAK and CAR games decent for Smith. Last week's game against Cleveland was a completely different player in terms of pocket movement and decision making, but I doubt that it lasts.
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I think Tajh Boyd is worse off than Geno Smith coming into the league, and Zach Mettenberger won't provide much competition after the ACL injury. He'll probably be out until at least mid-August. McCarron and Garoppolo would be awesome.
Really hoping we end up with Derek Carr or Blake Bortles in the first though.
Not sure I would even call the OAK and CAR games decent for Smith. Last week's game against Cleveland was a completely different player in terms of pocket movement and decision making, but I doubt that it lasts.
At this point, a decent to good game for a Jets QB consists of not turning the ball over multiple times. Kind of sad really.
Ive personally never been a fan of Boyd, but he does have some talent and wouldnt be a bad addition.
I also dont love Bortles, but maybe thats because Ive only seen about 6 games of his. I think he has very good pocket awareness/presence and his accuracy and arm are solid. I dont really know how his ability to read a defense and go through reads are but thats primarily because I havent seen a whole lot of him. Between 2012 and 2013, I do think he has progressed a good amount though.
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Well if we get a new OC (ie Rex is fired), im writing Geno off as FUCKED for next season. Not that I think MM is a genius or anything, but Geno isnt exactly that bright and learning the offense/reading defenses seems to be complicated enough for him as is.
If we bring in a whole new offense/playbook/oc/QB coach id expect next year to be a learning year for him and to look very similar to this one.
For me, that's the best part of possibly overhauling the coaching staff. It gives the team an excuse to replace Smith early on before investing too much time and effort into him.
If we bring in "a whole new offense/playbook/OC/QB coach", then just bring in a new QB. Smith hasn't earned anything in terms of incumbency.
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It's not his fault.
this year it's pretty easy to point to genos struggles on the road. Rex probably didn't care about his preparation doe
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For me, that's the best part of possibly overhauling the coaching staff. It gives the team an excuse to replace Smith early on before investing too much time and effort into him.
If we bring in "a whole new offense/playbook/OC/QB coach", then just bring in a new QB. Smith hasn't earned anything in terms of incumbency.
But then we either trade up, get a jag to start, or watch Geno struggle more.
And im not a fan of trading up regardless of who the HC is.
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But then we either trade up, get a jag to start, or watch Geno struggle more.
And im not a fan of trading up regardless of who the HC is.
If we trade up for a franchise QB, I won't complain... Anyone else, no way.
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I got a 2014 Jets calendar for Christmas, Sanchez is on the cover and is also September. Was going to post a picture but you can take my word for it.
Also, Josh Bush made the calendar, December. I excrement you not.
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I got a 2014 Jets calendar for Christmas, Sanchez is on the cover and is also September. Was going to post a picture but you can take my word for it.
Also, Josh Bush made the calendar, December. I excrement you not.
Haha, they couldn't come up with 12 better players than Josh Bush?
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Haha, they couldn't come up with 12 better players than Josh Bush?
January--Cromartie
February--Brick
March--Harris
April--Hill
May--Tone Time (doing "The Jet")
June--Kerley
July--Mangold
August--Powell
September--Sanchez
October--Mo
November--Wilson
December--Bush
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January--Cromartie
February--Brick
March--Harris
April--Hill
May--Tone Time (doing "The Jet")
June--Kerley
July--Mangold
August--Powell
September--Sanchez
October--Mo
November--Wilson
December--Bush
Not sure how Coples didn't make it. Davis would have been better than Bush too.
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Not sure how Coples didn't make it. Davis would have been better than Bush too.
Definitely, I was thinking a couple of the young D-lineman would be on there.
Kind of shocked Sanchez is on the cover, makes you wonder how early in the year they print these things.
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Not sure how Coples didn't make it. Davis would have been better than Bush too.
Coples and Davis barely played last year as rookies so I understand why they didnt make it (although Coples was a first round pick LAST YEAR, so you kind of expect him to make it by default)
But Bush only had 1/3rd the snaps of each of them, so its kinda mind boggling
Maybe the bitches love em
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I will enjoy a full month of Tone Time in May.
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Definitely, I was thinking a couple of the young D-lineman would be on there.
Kind of shocked Sanchez is on the cover, makes you wonder how early in the year they print these things.
I just don't think they give a freak.
They could slip Justin McCareins in for June, they're still gonna sell the exact same number of calendars.
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I just don't think they give a freak.
They could slip Justin McCareins in for June, they're still gonna sell the exact same number of calendars.
David Nelson is basically just a more likeable McCareins, so they can just add him to the calendar.
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I will enjoy a full month of Tone Time in May.
I wish they would've at least picked April for an entire month of Tone Time so an entire month of me being blazed would make sense.
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http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-situational-quarterback-rating-statistics/2013/
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New York Jets Quarterbacks are ranked 3rd in the NFL in QB hits taken at 142. Houston and Cleveland are the two teams that have allowed more.
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Percentage of dropbacks under pressure (NFL rank): Geno Smith - 41.8 % (4th)
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Percentage of dropbacks under pressure (NFL rank): Geno Smith - 41.8 % (4th)
I would be curious on the criteria of that statistic. Is it immediate pressure, or holding on the ball too long pressure?
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I still want someone new in 2014.
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Keep getting them until we're sure we found the guy.
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Keep getting them until we're sure we found the guy.
Draft 8 Quaterbacks this draft.
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Draft 8 Quaterbacks this draft.
Obviously it is hyperbole, but if one of those guys turned out to be an All Pro QB would you even be mad?
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Obviously it is hyperbole, but if one of those guys turned out to be an All Pro QB would you even be mad?
Do you really have to ask ?
I would give up every single draft pick for 2 seasons for a young QB that would become All-Pro
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Draft 8 Quaterbacks this draft.
http://www.jetoffensive.com/index.php?topic=361.msg23125#msg23125
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I wish they would've at least picked April for an entire month of Tone Time so an entire month of me being blazed would make sense.
It always makes sense. You're not alone, my friend.
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I still think the Jets should draft a QB at some point in this draft, but now I wholeheartedly do not want them to trade up for one. If someone falls to 18 somehow, doubtfully, I'd take one in the first round, but otherwise, I'd rather take a WR or TE on the first night.
I'm still not certain about Geno, but he's certainly matured this past month. He still needs work on pre-snap reads, but I saw him legitimately go through progressions in the pocket yesterday. When given some time, he can make the throws. Plus, when he finally truly added his legs to his arsenal he changed everything.
Can Geno win a title? I don't know. I do think he can get this team to the playoffs though. Put the weapons in place and see if he can make them excel. If so, great. If not, we've drafted a mid-round QB to groom and we can move on cleanly with a guy ready to take over a well-designed unit.
I truly cannot believe I just wrote that about Geno. A month ago I would have said this would never be possible.
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Geno looked like a rookie, both good and bad. He finished strong which is what you want to see.
I'd love for the draft and free agency to be offense-heavy to see if he can be groomed into a franchise guy.
Taking a QB in the first round, especially one we've traded up for, will not cure the offensive woes. Too many holes on that side of the ball.
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FWIW (albeit not a whole lot) Nelson said today he believes Geno is the future of the NYJ QB position.
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FWIW (albeit not a whole lot) Nelson said today he believes Geno is the future of the NYJ QB position.
I respect that opinion as much as I respect Mehta's on...anything. It seems like he'll get all of next season with some better weapons to prove himself. I'm not that confident that he'll improve much but it's as yet to be seen.
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FWIW (albeit not a whole lot) Nelson said today he believes Geno is the future of the NYJ QB position.
If he's going to stay here and catch passes, he's going to say that.
If he's going to want to continue to catch passes from Geno, he's going to say that.
Nelson is saying the right things.
Just saying...
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Geno looked like a rookie, both good and bad. He finished strong which is what you want to see.
I'd love for the draft and free agency to be offense-heavy to see if he can be groomed into a franchise guy.
Taking a QB in the first round, especially one we've traded up for, will not cure the offensive woes. Too many holes on that side of the ball.
I agree, but I also think that with a QB class this rich in talent, you have to take someone because someone is going to fall to you. There are no financial ties to Geno, so making him the backup and getting someone with a higher ceiling is possible, and with a little help in FA the OL can be good enough to keep a QB upright.
A better OL with the running game the Jets already have can set up a 1st round QB just fine. With the DL only getting better as they gain more experience together, the more it's about the running game and good DL play. That's where Idzik came from, and that's what Rex has always wanted.
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I agree, but I also think that with a QB class this rich in talent, you have to take someone because someone is going to fall to you. There are no financial ties to Geno, so making him the backup and getting someone with a higher ceiling is possible, and with a little help in FA the OL can be good enough to keep a QB upright.
A better OL with the running game the Jets already have can set up a 1st round QB just fine. With the DL only getting better as they gain more experience together, the more it's about the running game and good DL play. That's where Idzik came from, and that's what Rex has always wanted.
No doubt, my fear is to take too many stabs at a QB and you start playing musical chairs trying to find your guy. Don't want to become the Browns in that regard.
The way it played out originally with Sanchez is what I'd like to see. Build a great OL, draft a TE early, and acquire some talent at WR before the QB is settled. Obviously that plan went by the wayside but the foundation was there.
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No doubt, my fear is to take too many stabs at a QB and you start playing musical chairs trying to find your guy. Don't want to become the Browns in that regard.
The way it played out originally with Sanchez is what I'd like to see. Build a great OL, draft a TE early, and acquire some talent at WR before the QB is settled. Obviously that plan went by the wayside but the foundation was there.
So literally you want them to put the cart before the horse? I actually think it's a sound strategy if they think they can get by with Geno or a veteran stop gap.
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So literally you want them to put the cart before the horse? I actually think it's a sound strategy if they think they can get by with Geno or a veteran stop gap.
That's actually an excellent example of speech figurative.
It's the same plan that I've been advocating since before drafting Sanchez. Build a winning environment for a rookie and minimize the chances of ruining them.
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So literally you want them to put the cart before the horse? I actually think it's a sound strategy if they think they can get by with Geno or a veteran stop gap.
Not to that extent.. I mean it more in the sense that it's difficult for any QB to succeed with a porous OL and absolute dogshit at WR. Geno may not be the answer but it's tough to blame the offensive ineptitude squarely on his shoulders.
I'd like to give him a fair shake - he deserves a shot with a few playmakers added at WR and TE. The added experience will help as well, we all knew he'd be a work in progress.
I have nothing againt drafting a QB in the first 3 rounds but it's difficult to write him off as a loss taking into account the cap/roster situation of 2013.
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Not to that extent.. I mean it more in the sense that it's difficult for any QB to succeed with a porous OL and absolute dogshit at WR. Geno may not be the answer but it's tough to blame the offensive ineptitude squarely on his shoulders.
I'd like to give him a fair shake - he deserves a shot with a few playmakers added at WR and TE. The added experience will help as well, we all knew he'd be a work in progress.
I have nothing againt drafting a QB in the first 3 rounds but it's difficult to write him off as a loss taking into account the cap/roster situation of 2013.
Exactly.
We have no idea whether Geno is or isn't the answer. You certainly can't make a sound permanent judgement based on this year alone. You have to install targets for him to throw to before you can definitively state whether he is or is not a long-term answer.
Had he not showed any progression by the end of the season it might be a different story. However, over the last 4 weeks of the season, only Peyton Manning had a higher QBR. Giving Geno weapons and an opportunity to start is the only logical thing to do right now.
If he doesn't pan out, then the weapons are there for the succesor, but you can't write him off yet.
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Had he not showed any progression by the end of the season it might be a different story. However, over the last 4 weeks of the season, only Peyton Manning had a higher QBR.
I didn't know that.. good for him.
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Exactly.
We have no idea whether Geno is or isn't the answer. You certainly can't make a sound permanent judgement based on this year alone. You have to install targets for him to throw to before you can definitively state whether he is or is not a long-term answer.
Had he not showed any progression by the end of the season it might be a different story. However, over the last 4 weeks of the season, only Peyton Manning had a higher QBR. Giving Geno weapons and an opportunity to start is the only logical thing to do right now.
Do you have a link to that article or data? I am not doubting you I would love to read it.
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Do you have a link to that article or data? I am not doubting you I would love to read it.
I'll second this request.
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in his last 4 games, Geno had 7 scores and only 2 turnovers.
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in his last 4 games, Geno had 7 scores and only 2 turnovers.
3 of them against very good, if not elite defenses with multiple games on the road.
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Best Total QBR in final 4 weeks of NFL regular season-- Peyton Manning (85.1) ... 2nd-best: Geno Smith (78.9)
That's all the evidence I have, but it's fairly reliable, I think.
Also, that's pretty stunning and certainly makes you feel a bit better about him going forward.
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better news is the offensive line only gave up 5 sacks in those 4 games......and 4 of them came at Carolina.
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Better rating than Foles? I get all the ratings mixed up I guess.
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It's ESPN's proprietary stat. Interesting comparison but I'm not putting too much into it. The hard numbers and turnovers seem more relevant to me.
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It's not like it's some magical number that has no basis in any reality. It's simply an amalgamation of factors beyond standard QBR. Geno had a very good ending to the season.
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I think that ESPN stat overvalues QB running, but a good score is definitely not a bad thing.
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I'm not considering it to be completely irrelevant but since I don't know too much about how it's figured I don't put too much stock in it. His turnover numbers dropped over that time; that's huge.
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who cares about the stats
it was more like he had 2 good games, not 4
other games he won aside he basically had 2 games all year where he looked like a competent qb, maybe the fact that it was the last two is encouraging or something
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other games he won aside he basically had 2 games all year where he looked like a competent qb, maybe the fact that it was the last two is encouraging or something
Three
He played well against Atlanta
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who cares about the stats
it was more like he had 2 good games, not 4
other games he won aside he basically had 2 games all year where he looked like a competent qb, maybe the fact that it was the last two is encouraging or something
If we were discussing a 5th year Mark Sanchez I'd agree but Geno was a rookie and it was no surprise he'd need development. To see him finish the year strong is encouraging.
He played like excrement at times, took his lumps, and hopefully learned from it all. Can't ask for much more than that with the personnel this team has on offense.
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He threw for 300 yards, 2 tds and rushed for 1 against the Bills.
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He threw for 300 yards, 2 tds and rushed for 1 against the Bills.
Mr. Fantasy is back.
He also threw two terrible interceptions and only completed 55% of his passes. But he scored TDs though!
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Mr. Fantasy is back.
He also threw two terrible interceptions and only completed 55% of his passes. But he scored TDs though!
Completion percentage is everything!!
Nevermind the 11.4 YPA, or 85 QBR or 89.9 QB rating
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Completion percentage is everything!!
Nevermind the 11.4 YPA
Interceptions don't matter when your YPA is high.
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Interceptions don't matter when your YPA is high.
Do QB rating and QBR?
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Do QB rating and QBR?
QBR is one of the dumbest sports related things in the world. Two positive scrambles? Plus 30.
I tell you what, draft Geno Smith next year in the Friar's League and we'll see how awesome he is then.
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Josh McCown has the league's highest QBR. Not Peyton Manning. Not Nick Foles. Not Philip Rivers.
Josh McCown.
QBR: the ultimate measuring stick
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Josh McCown has the league's highest QBR. Not Peyton Manning. Not Nick Foles. Not Philip Rivers.
Josh McCown.
QBR: the ultimate measuring stick
and 13 tds to 1 INT with a 109 QB rating.
"but josh mccown would be my first choice to sign"
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and 13 tds to 1 INT with a 109 QB rating.
"but josh mccown would be my first choice to sign"
Josh McCown > Peyton Manning
/JFIF
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He played like excrement at times, took his lumps, and hopefully learned from it all. Can't ask for much more than that with the personnel this team has on offense.
I can ask for a hell of a lot more than what Geno did this year
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I can ask for a hell of a lot more than what Geno did this year
There was a ton of room for improvement, no doubt. All I'm saying is that he finished the year strong with a surrounding cast that left much to be desired.
Obviously you can't cherry pick to come to a reasonable conclusion but IMO you have to enter the off-season with a good taste in your mouth. Cap is great, draft picks are there, foundation is coming together.
Let the chips fall where they may. I'm excited as a Jets fan.
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Smith showed some nice progression these last 4 weeks, but the thing that he didn't progress in is quick decision making. Compound this with his ridiculously slow release, and it is not a fit for a Marty Morhinweg scheme. I don't believe MM ran the system he wanted to run, IMO.
What Smith did this season, or better yet, the last 4 weeks was nothing special.
Edit: I am not suggesting that we don't start the season with him. We have all been clamoring to develop a QB, and drafting any QB this offseason is the perfect situation for that. I am truly hoping that we don't draft a QB unless it is Blake Bortles, so we can go after Bryce Petty next year. I have really grown impressed with him, and feel he would be a perfect Jet mold.
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I am truly hoping that we don't draft a QB unless it is Blake Bortles, so we can go after Bryce Petty next year. I have really grown impressed with him, and feel he would be a perfect Jet mold.
If we're taking a QB next year, the entire staff will be gone.
Bryce Petty is just as much of a system QB as Geno Smith was coming into the NFL. His decision making will be questionable at best early too.
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after what Geno's done the past two weeks - not playing incredibly well, merely looking like a competent qb in the pocket - people are making it sound like he was a typical rookie taking typical rookie lumps, not one of the worst qbs ever who dragged down a team that makes the playoffs with a QB who is merely bad
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How much better do you think Sanchez could/would actually be if we bring him back ?
I know its not a popular move, but I think he is more likely than any free agent QB to be the "veteran competition" for Geno next year. Not to say I think theres a very good chance it happens, but I wouldnt be the slightest bit shocked.
Is his injury/surgery something that will be a major issue, and is MM's system that much better to where Sanchez could actually look competent ?
Anyone think this might be one of those scenarios where a guy comes back from surgery/rehab with a stronger arm than he had before (like Greg McElroy ?)
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How much better do you think Sanchez could/would actually be if we bring him back ?
I know its not a popular move, but I think he is more likely than any free agent QB to be the "veteran competition" for Geno next year. Not to say I think theres a very good chance it happens, but I wouldnt be the slightest bit shocked.
Is his injury/surgery something that will be a major issue, and is MM's system that much better to where Sanchez could actually look competent ?
Anyone think this might be one of those scenarios where a guy comes back from surgery/rehab with a stronger arm than he had before (like Greg McElroy ?)
Sanchez is done, dude.
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Sanchez is done, dude.
Never said hell play well, just that hes going to get some legitimate consideration. This team needs a vet QB to press against Geno. If guys like Vick/Schaub go faster/more expensive than anticipated Sanchez will get a serious look. Especially with Rex/MM back
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If we were discussing a 5th year Mark Sanchez I'd agree but Geno was a rookie and it was no surprise he'd need development. To see him finish the year strong is encouraging.
He played like excrement at times, took his lumps, and hopefully learned from it all. Can't ask for much more than that with the personnel this team has on offense.
I think this is pretty much how I feel. I was desperately disappointed in him at times this season and there are things that really concern me such as the speed with which he moves through his progressions, or more accurately the lack thereof, but looking back at the season as a whole we have to recognise that he was put into an incredibly tough situation as a rookie and there's probably at least as much positive we can take out of the season as there is negative.
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Never said hell play well, just that hes going to get some legitimate consideration.
No, he isn't.
This team is going to cut him and move on. He's done with this team once we release him. I'm willing to bet he has all sorts of ill will towards the Jets now.
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No, he isn't.
This team is going to cut him and move on. He's done with this team once we release him. I'm willing to bet he has all sorts of ill will towards the Jets now.
Heres what Cimini mentioned in regards to the qb spot
Mark Sanchez fits the description, but there are health and salary-related questions, not to mention the entire issue of whether they'd want to re-create last summer's competition. Been there, done that.
An interesting target would be Kirk Cousins, who probably will be dangled in trade talks by the Washington Redskins. He wouldn't come cheaply in terms of compensation, maybe a second-round pick. That's a lot to surrender for a possible backup, but they have to look at the long view. He'd be an asset that appreciates in value.
They could go for Matt Schaub, the 2006 version of Cousins. Schaub would bring some baggage to the party, assuming he's released by the Houston Texans, but he’s still only 32 and would be a worthwhile reclamation project/insurance policy.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets
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I don't care what Rich Cimini said about Mark Sanchez.
Once the Jets release Sanchez and get rid of that awful contract, he's not coming back.
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I don't care what Rich Cimini said about Mark Sanchez.
Once the Jets release Sanchez and get rid of that awful contract, he's not coming back.
What if they dont release him, and just ask him to to take a significant paycut?
Ive seen that floated by another beat writer at some point.
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why'd you have to be so stupid rex
if you didn't get sanchez killed you're probably getting ready for the playoffs, geno's still a shiny young player who probably learned as much or more sitting on the bench than he did playing 14 weeks as the worst qb in history, and we're all going into next season happy as could be with our situation
why
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freak Sanchez
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No, he isn't.
This team is going to cut him and move on. He's done with this team once we release him. I'm willing to bet he has all sorts of ill will towards the Jets now.
I'll will of not, Mark is done in NY. We need a vet QB, but it can't be Mark. I would think the Jets would rather roll with the same trio of QBs this year, than have Mark be the primary backup, or god forbid win the job from Geno this offseason. If any other vet beats him out, that's fine, but it can't be Sanchez. The perception would be horrific, not to mention the additional issues it could cause in the locker room.
Mark is done, time to move on.
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No, he isn't.
This team is going to cut him and move on. He's done with this team once we release him. I'm willing to bet he has all sorts of ill will towards the Jets now.
I think he'll be back on a very team-friendly deal. Wanna bet something?
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Wanna bet something?
Draw it up
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Draw it up
A jersey might be too much, but a Jets t-shirt sounds right.
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Could go either way...personally I don't think he ends up being kept.
I think there's def some ill will on his part towards the organization (which frankly, i think at times he's been a baby about as a whole in his tenure) but the stigma attached to him just means a clean break would be better for both parties.
The only reason he stays is because of his ego and his desire to show he can still play in this city.
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It's time to move on from Sanchez. Keeping him around would be bad for both sides.
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Oh FFS....Sanchez is done with the NY Jets.
just let it go.
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A jersey might be too much, but a Jets t-shirt sounds right.
Imma take the deal and cross my fingers
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My line of thinking is this. Rex Ryan will stay, he likes Sanchez personally and he might feel indebted to him after how things turned out this season.
It seems quite improbable that the team will use a high draft pick to choose a QB so that means Geno will stay as the incumbent. Other than the Jaguars or the Raiders maybe, there's no other team in which Sanchez will have a better chance of starting than this one. That doesn't mean he will, but there might be a legitimate QB battle between Geno, a veteran and a late round rookie. Sanchez knows the playbook and he might (might) want to sign a very team-friendly extension so he can prove to himself that he's not done.
Also, the ill feeling from the fans towards him has subsided a lot after seeing Geno excrement the bed during large parts of the season. Sanchez became "the other" QB, and that's always a good position to be in NY.
I don't know if he will come back, but for all these reasons I think that the possibility is not as low as some might believe. Now, would that be good or bad? That's a completely different debate. In any case, barring a miracle, I would like a 1st-round rookie in 2015.
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Sanchez needs to go to a west coast team where the teams are well built and if he's playing due to a starter's injury he's got talent around him. Plus, he's closer to home... Sounds like Leinart all over again.
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My line of thinking is this. Rex Ryan will stay, he likes Sanchez personally and he might feel indebted to him after how things turned out this season.
If Sanchez winds up staying because of this reason then keeping Rex would have been a mistake. This is the type of excrement that he needs to stop doing.
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We need a veteran to compete with and as an option to Geno. If Sanchez can be that I'm fine with it, he did win a lot of games here when we had a decent team.
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We need a veteran to compete with and as an option to Geno. If Sanchez can be that I'm fine with it, he did win a lot of games here when we had a decent team.
that was before his psyche cracked like an egg.
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that was before his psyche cracked like an egg.
He's had a year away from the game and he's still young, he's going to play again and we know he has ability.
Don't get me wrong, if we can get somebody better I'm all for that but it's easier said than done. To just rule him out because he's Sanchez and bring in a journeyman who isn't any better doesn't accomplish anything. Pretty sure we owe Sanchez money and he's on our cap either way, so if he can play let's see.
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Pretty sure we owe Sanchez money and he's on our cap either way, so if he can play let's see.
...
Or we could just release him and free up a ton of cap space.
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Sanchez needs to go to a west coast team where the teams are well built and if he's playing due to a starter's injury he's got talent around him. Plus, he's closer to home... Sounds like Leinart all over again.
I've said it several times this year, Seattle is the logical destination. Back to his old mentor, no pressure because he's backing up one of the top QBs in the league, he's considerably better than the current #2 (Tarvaris Jackson), and the opposite side of the country from New York.
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He's had a year away from the game and he's still young, he's going to play again and we know he has ability.
Don't get me wrong, if we can get somebody better I'm all for that but it's easier said than done. To just rule him out because he's Sanchez and bring in a journeyman who isn't any better doesn't accomplish anything. Pretty sure we owe Sanchez money and he's on our cap either way, so if he can play let's see.
What haven't you seen from Sanchez in the last 5 years, that we haven't seen yet?
Did Hobbes hijack your user account?
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I've said it several times this year, Seattle is the logical destination. Back to his old mentor, no pressure because he's backing up one of the top QBs in the league, he's considerably better than the current #2 (Tarvaris Jackson), and the opposite side of the country from New York.
Sanchez is already rich from 2 terrible contracts from Tanny.
If he goes to a team its because he believes he has a shot to start.
Arizona would actually be a good choice for him.
He has someone like Palmer ahead of him, Bruce Arians has more than a solid track record, and he has a legit chance of becoming a starter on a west coast team with a strong defense.
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What haven't you seen from Sanchez in the last 5 years, that we haven't seen yet?
Did Hobbes hijack your user account?
We've seen him be very clutch in some very big games, including road playoff games. At this point I'd rather see Geno start, but if the next best option out there is our own guy that's fine too. Again, if we can do better let's do it, but I'm not going to lose any sleep if it's Sanchez, especially as the backup.
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...
Or we could just release him and free up a ton of cap space.
This would be the smart move.
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We've seen him be very clutch in some very big games, including road playoff games. At this point I'd rather see Geno start, but if the next best option out there is our own guy that's fine too. Again, if we can do better let's do it, but I'm not going to lose any sleep if it's Sanchez, especially as the backup.
Again...that was before he was David Carr'd.
I have a soxxx funny feeling that you and I are going to have plenty of arguments over the course of the offseason.
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This would be the smart move.
Could we then resign him under a new contract without penalty?
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Could we then resign him under a new contract without penalty?
of course...but why the freak would we do that?
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of course...but why the freak would we do that?
Hobbes wrote a really persuasive letter to the FO.
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of course...but why the freak would we do that?
Because we might want to cut him and then both parts could test the market. If none of them finds a better deal, then we might bring him back.
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Hobbes wrote a really persuasive letter to the FO.
Woody is a staunch Republican....so that would make sense.
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Again...that was before he was David Carr'd.
I have a soxxx funny feeling that you and I are going to have plenty of arguments over the course of the offseason.
Haha that's possible.
I think you're writing him off too quickly. Remind me, when did David Carr win playoff games in Foxboro, San Diego and Indy? Must have missed that.
You seem to be missing the part where I said let's get somebody better if we can, but if not and he wants to be back here, fine. Geno progressed enough late that he will be the likely starter anyway unless some good QB falls into our lap. But I've been watching the Jets for 40 years now and that has happened exactly once, when we signed Vinny to be a backup in 1998.
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Because we might want to cut him and then both parts could test the market. If none of them finds a better deal, then we might bring him back.
I doubt we bring him back, under any circumstance.
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I'm not going to be upset if Sanchez is around at a greatly reduced price next year. But I'm not expecting that. He's likely gone.
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Haha that's possible.
I think you're writing him off too quickly. Remind me, when did David Carr win playoff games in Foxboro, San Diego and Indy? Must have missed that.
You seem to be missing the part where I said let's get somebody better if we can, but if not and he wants to be back here, fine. Geno progressed enough late that he will be the likely starter anyway unless some good QB falls into our lap. But I've been watching the Jets for 40 years now and that has happened exactly once, when we signed Vinny to be a backup in 1998.
you're holding on to Sanchez's first 2 seasons a little too tightly. A lot has changed since then....for the worse.
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I know most of ya dont trust this guy but...
Despite Mark Sanchez's struggles during the final two seasons of Tannenbaum's Jets tenure, the former general manager stated Sunday he hopes that the Jets won't cut Sanchez during the offseason. It will be a benefit, Tannenbaum said, to couple Sanchez and Smith in 2014.
"I think going into next year having them both under contract is actually a position of strength and, again, if you keep Rex and presumably coach Mornhinweg, that gives you some continuity," Tannenbaum said. "Even though Sanchez didn’t play this year, he learned the system and that probably would give them the best chance to be successful in 2014."
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/12/mike_tannenbaum_argues_on_behalf_of_jets_retaining_rex_ryan_mark_sanchez.html
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you're holding on to Sanchez's first 2 seasons a little too tightly. A lot has changed since then....for the worse.
I don't know why people act like his 3rd season was excrement. A QB performance like that on the 2013 Jets and we'd be in the playoffs.
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I know most of ya dont trust this guy but...
Tannenbaum needs to shut his fat mouth.
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Could we then resign him under a new contract without penalty?
Yes, but why would we reload a bullet that's clearly misfired?
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I don't know why people act like his 3rd season was excrement. A QB performance like that on the 2013 Jets and we'd be in the playoffs.
Just because it was better than Geno's performance this season doesn't mean it was good.
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you're holding on to Sanchez's first 2 seasons a little too tightly. A lot has changed since then....for the worse.
The whole team got worse and now it's getting better again. Sanchez needs to hang onto the ball, particularly cut down the fumbles, but it wasn't all him either. We were 8-5 13 games into his third season and the year with Sparano and Tebow was a disaster for everyone involved, not just Sanchez.
It's kind of like Rex, the haters want to pretend the first two years didn't happen. It all happened, you have to look at all of it and all the contributing factors.
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The whole team got worse and now it's getting better again. Sanchez needs to hang onto the ball, particularly cut down the fumbles, but it wasn't all him either. We were 8-5 13 games into his third season and the year with Sparano and Tebow was a disaster for everyone involved, not just Sanchez.
It's kind of like Rex, the haters want to pretend the first two years didn't happen. It all happened, you have to look at all of it and all the contributing factors.
the excuses for Sanchez are way past their due date too.
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I think you're looking at it the wrong way, from a fan standpoint and not a FO/staff one. Your main problem with Sanchez is that he's Sanchez, but take out the last name and only think quality-wise. There are not many options on the market better than him. Is not that Schaub was any better this year than Sanchez worst season. The others you might have to trade for or they were young backups this season. They will have to get acquainted to the playbook and the system and even then they would be unproven commodities.
The main problem with Sanchez is money and that's why they might cut him, however if he agrees to resign for the vet min, he might be the best backup we might get in the offseason.
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Just because it was better than Geno's performance this season doesn't mean it was good.
People lump his 2011 in with his 2012, as if one season logically proceeded into the next. If Sanchez improved in 2012, people wouldn't call 2011 a excrement season. It's revisionist. I'm not saying it was a great season, but it was nothing to be disgusted with.
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I think you're looking at it the wrong way, from a fan standpoint and not a FO/staff one. Your main problem with Sanchez is that he's Sanchez, but take out the last name and only think quality-wise. There are not many options on the market better than him. Is not that Schaub was any better this year than Sanchez worst season. The others you might have to trade for or they were young backups this season. They will have to get acquainted to the playbook and the system and even then they would be unproven commodities.
The main problem with Sanchez is money and that's why they might cut him, however if he agrees to resign for the vet min, he might be the best backup we might get in the offseason.
the main problem with Sanchez is that he's shellshocked, can't read a defense, and has the accuracy of a drunken archer.
Money is further down the list.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-bringing-sanchez-back-crazier-happened-article-1.1547695'
Manish interviews Mr.E
Sanchez seemed like a viable option until I was slapped down to reality by personnel men across the league this week.
“Are you nuts?” a longtime NFL personnel director incredulously told me. “Sanchez is done. He could never play in (MetLife) Stadium again. He could play in a stadium, but not that one. He’s done as a Jet. He was so horrific in front of the fans that there’s no way they could ever bring him back and hold credibility with the fans. They’ve written him off. If they weren’t contractually locked to him this year, they would have let him go.”
“No … because what you’re doing is muddying the water,” the personnel director said. “You’re retarding progress for your team with Sanchez. You got to bring hope into the building. You got to bring somebody in that’s going to compete with hope. I would bring anybody in there except him.”
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the excuses for Sanchez are way past their due date too.
Show me one excuse I made for him. He's accountable for his own mistakes but the Jets problems of late 2011 and 2012 weren't all him any more than the success in 2009 and 2010 were all him. He is a guy we can win with, I know this because I've seen it happen already.
Conversely, your "David Carr" reasoning is just writing him off because you want to close your mind off and be an angry fan. Mex Buc and I are both saying look at it logically and see if the other options are any better.
Of course he's probably only saying that because the Mexicans all stick up for one another. :D
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Whoever he interviewed is spot on
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Show me one excuse I made for him. He's accountable for his own mistakes but the Jets problems of late 2011 and 2012 weren't all him any more than the success in 2009 and 2010 were all him. He is a guy we can win with, I know this because I've seen it happen already.
Conversely, your "David Carr" reasoning is just writing him off because you want to close your mind off and be an angry fan. Mex Buc and I are both saying look at it logically and see if the other options are any better.
Of course he's probably only saying that because the Mexicans all stick up for one another. :D
there's no logic in your reasoning whatsoever.
EDIT: my David Carr analogy is legit. Sanchez was never the same after Lawrence Timmons lit him up.
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there's no logic in your reasoning whatsoever.
Logical arguments:
There are not many options on the market better than him. Is not that Schaub was any better this year than Sanchez worst season. The others you might have to trade for or they were young backups this season. They will have to get acquainted to the playbook and the system and even then they would be unproven commodities.
“Are you nuts?” a longtime NFL personnel director incredulously told me. “Sanchez is done. He could never play in (MetLife) Stadium again. He could play in a stadium, but not that one. He’s done as a Jet. He was so horrific in front of the fans that there’s no way they could ever bring him back and hold credibility with the fans. They’ve written him off. If they weren’t contractually locked to him this year, they would have let him go.”
“No … because what you’re doing is muddying the water,” the personnel director said. “You’re retarding progress for your team with Sanchez. You got to bring hope into the building. You got to bring somebody in that’s going to compete with hope. I would bring anybody in there except him.”
Illogical arguments:
"Sanchez won playoff games, he's good forever!"
"Sanchez made me sad, I hate him and I never want to see him again!"
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The main problem with Sanchez is money and that's why they might cut him, however if he agrees to resign for the vet min, he might be the best backup we might get in the offseason.
No the main problem with Sanchez is that he's a broken product with no internal clock who stares down his WRs, and is frequently late on his timing throws which makes it very easy for defenders to jump routes. He has made very little progress since his rookie season in terms of decision making and reading the defense and cannot let go of his mistakes.
He has the same flaws as Smith along with being shell shocked from taking those hits from the past three seasons. He's only a proven commodity if failed draft picks are commodities.
He has the organizational skills and the leadership qualities off of the field to be a decent coach but if he makes one mistake he becomes too conservative to push the ball down the field until he has no other option and if he takes one hit he gets so jittery that he fires off passes before reading the field. Both of these make him a turnover risk.
The Jets should be in the market for a veteran with a quick release who can take care of the ball. None of these qualities can be attributed to Sanchez right now. It's time to move on.
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Yes, discounting a QB because he took a hard hit is totally logical. Might as well write them all off then.
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No the main problem with Sanchez is that he's a broken product with no internal clock who stares down his WRs, and is frequently late on his timing throws which makes it very easy for defenders to jump routes. He has made very little progress since his rookie season in terms of decision making and reading the defense and cannot let go of his mistakes.
He has the same flaws as Smith along with being shell shocked from taking those hits from the past three seasons. He's only a proven commodity if failed draft picks are commodities.
He has the organizational skills and the leadership qualities off of the field to be a decent coach but if he makes one mistake he becomes too conservative to push the ball down the field until he has no other option and if he takes one hit he gets so jittery that he fires off passes before reading the field. Both of these make him a turnover risk.
The Jets should be in the market for a veteran with a quick release who can take care of the ball. None of these qualities can be attributed to Sanchez right now. It's time to move on.
Who?
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Who?
"Anyone but Sanchez! Stop being illogical!"
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No the main problem with Sanchez is that he's a broken product with no internal clock who stares down his WRs, and is frequently late on his timing throws which makes it very easy for defenders to jump routes. He has made very little progress since his rookie season in terms of decision making and reading the defense anid cannot let go of his mistakes.
He has the same flaws as Smith along with being shell shocked from taking those hits from the past three seasons. He's only a proven commodity if failed draft picks are commodities.
He has the organizational skills and the leadership qualities off of the field to be a decent coach but if he makes one mistake he becomes too conservative to push the ball down the field until he has no other option and if he takes one hit he gets so jittery that he fires off passes before reading the field. Both of these make him a turnover risk.
The Jets should be in the market for a veteran with a quick release who can take care of the ball. None of these qualities can be attributed to Sanchez right now. It's time to move on.
This last part I agree with except I think the year off ends up helping him. He never got the chance to watch from the sideline, only played 16 games in college. Plus, as a person you grow up a lot through your 20s, some of you may still need to take my word for that.
Again, I'm not saying start him or don't look for someone better, but he should be an option if you don't find someone better.
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Yes, discounting a QB because he took a hard hit is totally logical. Might as well write them all off then.
It's not one hit that discounts him, it's the cumulative psychological effect of all of those hits he's taken playing behind that POS OLine. The Timmons hit isn't the reason but it's a clear example of what happens to Sanchez when he takes a hit now. He was moving the offense effectively for those first two drives then he takes that hit from Timmons and shuts down for the rest of the game.
I can't remember him having a good game for the rest of that season and I'll bet all I have that it's because he was excrement scared and couldn't trust that OLine and then I'll go double or nothing that he'll react the same way at this point id he takes another hit like that with a good OLine in front of him.
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Yes, discounting a QB because he took a hard hit is totally logical. Might as well write them all off then.
hahahaha....rewatch the games from 2011 and 2012. Then come back to this conversation.
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Who?
Out of the current pending FA list I'll take Josh McCown or Colt McCoy as my top two choices.
That list is going to expand once the FA period hits and teams start releasing backups. I'll revisit this question then.
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hahahaha....rewatch the games from 2011 and 2012. Then come back to this conversation.
I've seen them all. Is that your argument?
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I've seen them all. Is that your argument?
yes...because you clearly haven't. Or we wouldn't be arguing.
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Out of the current pending FA list I'll take Josh McCown or Colt McCoy as my top two choices.
That list is going to expand once the FA period hits and teams start releasing backups. I'll revisit this question then.
McCown I might agree, McCoy is beyond awful...
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If Woody wants people to attend games at Metlife then there's no fuckn way he brings Sanchez back. Sure on the surface he isn't a terrible option as QB, but he's still Sanchez.
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If Woody wants people to attend games at Metlife then there's no fuckn way he brings Sanchez back. Sure on the surface he isn't a terrible option as QB, but he's still Sanchez.
freak that noise...he was awesome in 2009 and 2010. Sign him for 5 more years.
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If Woody wants people to attend games at Metlife then there's no fuckn way he brings Sanchez back. Sure on the surface he isn't a terrible option as QB, but he's still Sanchez.
That's absurd. No backup QB makes people go to the stadium, no matter who he is.
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That's absurd. No backup QB makes people go to the stadium, no matter who he is.
Tebow says hai
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Tebow says hai
Obvious exception, and that turned out really well for us.
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Obvious exception, and that turned out really well for us.
i never said it turned out well....but he did put asses in the stands.
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That's absurd. No backup QB makes people go to the stadium, no matter who he is.
It's the rule of the NFL that on all bar about six teams, the backup QB is the most popular player on the roster. That could never work with Sanchez.
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That's absurd. No backup QB makes people go to the stadium, no matter who he is.
If Sanchez competes with Geno, then there's a chance he may start. That's enough to throw the fanbase into a wild rage. He's not terrible, but the franchise is beyond him. Why keep around a guy who was drafted to be the franchise QB, and who's obviously not the franchise QB. It's over.
I know some of you have this weird connection with him, and I'll admit that I had the same with Vinny, but you and Badger need to let go of your undying love for the kid.
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If Sanchez competes with Geno, then there's a chance he may start. That's enough to throw the fanbase into a wild rage. He's not terrible, but the franchise is beyond him. Why keep around a guy who was drafted to be the franchise QB, and who's obviously not the franchise QB. It's over.
I know some of you have this weird connection with him, and I'll admit that I had the same with Vinny, but you and Badger need to let go of your undying love for the kid.
The fan base wasn't going into a wild rage when he was about to win the QB competition...
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The fan base wasn't going into a wild rage when he was about to win the QB competition...
I think the fan base was resigned to the fact Geno would benefit from sitting on the bench in lieu of Sanchez starting this year. That won't be the case next year.
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If you compare 2012 to 2013 then Geno Smith won 2 more games with basically the same roster.
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They will be angry only if he shits the bed. The feeling is way milder than last year now. Plus, Geno is the starter now, is his job to lose. You might be right and that might make the FO look elsewhere, but I think you're putting too much emphasis into something that might not be even true or that important.
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If you compare 2012 to 2013 then Geno Smith won 2 more games with basically the same roster.
Smith had a much better running game this year and the line was marginally better. Most importantly, I think that Sanchez would have had a much better year last year with Mornhinweg running the show than Sparano.
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The Jets have to move on. Whomever Manshits interviewed for that little piece was spot on. I would question Idzik´s and Rex intelligence if they brought that bum back. They can't, not because of the fans but because it would be colossally stupid. Sanchez failed miserably here, cut bait.
I don't understand the loyalty to Sanchez he was among the worst starting QB's ever for a season and a half stretch maybe longer. Bring in a decent veteran backup, not a mentor type to push Geno. Get some weapons and start to assemble a real offense. The Jets don't need Sanchez, why bother?
They only big contract guy I would bring back is Cro, I would even dump David Harris, although Davis was rather crap this year as well.
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Just to recap...
-Has self confidence issues that affect his play
-Has trust issues with the OLine that affects how he makes reads
-Stares down his first read constantly
-Cannot properly identify blitzers pre-snap and adjust to the proper hot routes
-Has drawn and will more than likely continue to draw boos from the fan base(see: confidence issues)
-Is frequently late with his throws, allowing defensers to easily jump routes and come up with INTs
-Has suffered from almost all of these probles since his rookie season despite him heading into what will be his 6th season as a pro
Reasons to Keep Sanchez:
-One less person to teach the playbook to
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No. The main reason to keep him, even with all this, is that there aren't many better options than him in the market. It's as easy as that.
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Sanchez is a dick.
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No. The main reason to keep him, even with all this, is that there aren't many better options than him in the market. It's as easy as that.
It's easy to early to say that. Besides I would rather have Johnny Unitas skeleton.
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No. The main reason to keep him, even with all this, is that there aren't many better options than him in the market. It's as easy as that.
An argument that likely loses credibility in March.
I also think you're giving Sanchez far too much credit. It's not like those faults only make him a bad starter, they make him an awful QB.
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No. The main reason to keep him, even with all this, is that there aren't many better options than him in the market. It's as easy as that.
Whatever benefits to keeping him are insanely outweighed by the negatives.
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Whatever benefits to keeping him are insanely outweighed by the negatives.
Let's sign Eli instead
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Let's sign Eli instead
I'm all for it.
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I'm all for it.
I know...
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Smith had a much better running game this year and the line was marginally better. Most importantly, I think that Sanchez would have had a much better year last year with Mornhinweg running the show than Sparano.
The line wasn't better. Slauson played much better than Winters, and Mangold and Brick had a subpar 12 games to start the season.
The secondary was also much much worse......although our front 7 was better.
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you can probably find a better option than Sanchez but that interview is a bunch of nonsense, saying something emphatically doesn't make it more true
the fan base hates him, sure, but all he has to do if he were hypothetically on the team next year is play well in game 1 after winning the qb competition over geno the second year in a row, everyone would instantly shut up about it
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you can probably find a better option than Sanchez but that interview is a bunch of nonsense, saying something emphatically doesn't make it more true
the fan base hates him, sure, but all he has to do if he were hypothetically on the team next year is play well in game 1 after winning the qb competition over geno the second year in a row, everyone would instantly shut up about it
Until his first interception.
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hahahaha....rewatch the games from 2011 and 2012. Then come back to this conversation.
Again, 2011... QB was better in every way than 2013.
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The worst thing about Sanchez was his red zone turnovers.... That was a theme since his rookie year (aside from 2010). There was nothing more backbreaking than marching 60-70 yards and then having him throw an interception.
Those are the plays that stick out in a lot of peoples minds and i'm sure that's why it's hard to remember he had an ok year in 2011 for the most part. But he played horrible down the stretch and that's a big part of why we went 0-3 to finish the season.
He sucked in that Eagles game (but Santonio started the avalanche with a shitty fumble), then Schotty pretty much left him out to dry making him drop back 60 times on christmas agains the giants, then in Miami he basically excrement the bed again throwing 2 picks to a freaking DT. I was at that game, hungover and miserable because it was 95 degrees for some reason
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The bottom line is Sanchez isn't the long term answer here. Cutting bait with him permanently is in the best interest of both parties.
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The bottom line is Sanchez isn't the long term answer here. Cutting bait with him permanently is in the best interest of both parties.
Most likely whoever starts next season wont be the long term answer here either.
If we grab a vet like Schaub or Vick they definitely wont be
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Nobody has said Sanchez is the long term answer, or should start or even should be necessarily brought back without looking at other options. Simply saying he should be considered as an option based on the fact that his resume is pretty much what we're realistically looking for.
The argument for doing this is logical, the arguments against it--so far from what has been presented here--are emotional.
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Nobody has said Sanchez is the long term answer, or should start or even should be necessarily brought back without looking at other options. Simply saying he should be considered as an option based on the fact that his resume is pretty much what we're realistically looking for.
The argument for doing this is logical, the arguments against it--so far from what has been presented here--are emotional.
There are no logical arguments for keeping Sanchez "as a backup". If he ever had to go into a game, I wouldn't trust him to win. Makes no sense to keep him on the roster.
I"m not even convinced a change of scenery would help him. I think our FO destroyed his confidence and whatever upside he had left. Just my opinion.
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What is with the suddens urge of support for keeping another turnover prone headcase of a QB on the roster?
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Sanchez may be a decent backup, but you're just asking for a bunch of locker room drama by keeping him around. Get a fresh start. There are plenty of other QBs out there who are every bit as decent as Sanchez, if not better, and probably cheaper with no locker room drama bullshit.
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What is with the suddens urge of support for keeping another turnover prone headcase of a QB on the roster?
He didn't play this season....which triggered "memory loss" in the fan base.
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Sanchez may be a decent backup
Sentence was false at this point turnovers are the last thing that should be tolerable in a backup.
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Sentence was false at this point turnovers are the last thing that should be tolerable in a backup.
Turnovers aren't good for any QB.
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Turnovers aren't good for any QB.
True but for a guy who's sole purpose is to take care of the ball until the starter is ready to return, it's kind of especially horrible. The backup's one job is to maintain possession.
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True but for a guy who's sole purpose is to take care of the ball until the starter is ready to return, it's kind of especially horrible. The backup's one job is to maintain possession.
Makes sense.
That being said, Sanchez would be an awful option as a backup.
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Sanchez may be a decent backup, but you're just asking for a bunch of locker room drama by keeping him around. Get a fresh start. There are plenty of other QBs out there who are every bit as decent as Sanchez, if not better, and probably cheaper with no locker room drama bullshit.
There wasn't any drama this year.
There are valid reasons to dump him and never look back, we don't need to invent any.
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There wasn't any drama this year.
There are valid reasons to dump him and never look back, we don't need to invent any.
He wasn't a backup. Completely different scenario.
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I'm not saying he's the best option as a backup, but he isn't completely off the list of possibilities. Cut him in March, see if we can bring in a vet who can offer more and will sign for the right price. If we can't find that guy, and no one else has signed Sanchez... he's a fallback option.
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He didn't play this season....which triggered "memory loss" in the fan base.
No, but it might have helped him to miss a year.
Of course he has to correct the turnovers, especially the fumbles, if he's going to play anywhere. That said, anyone we get will have been released from another team because of his own problems, otherwise he won't be released. The grass is always greener, the devil you don't know, insert cliche here,
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I'm not saying he's the best option as a backup, but he isn't completely off the list of possibilities. Cut him in March, see if we can bring in a vet who can offer more and will sign for the right price. If we can't find that guy, and no one else has signed Sanchez... he's a fallback option.
He's just more trouble than he's worth. This used to be his team. He was the franchise at one point. Having a hasbeen who crashed and burned hanging around the locker room will only be a problem. He knows that, the team knows that, Rex knows that, and Idzik sure as hell knows that.
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I understand the "fallback option" argument. I just think the Sanchez ship has sailed. I don't see any real value keeping him or resigning him to the roster, barring any miraculous revelations that he's fixed all of his issues.
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He's just more trouble than he's worth. This used to be his team. He was the franchise at one point. Having a hasbeen who crashed and burned hanging around the locker room will only be a problem. He knows that, the team knows that, Rex knows that, and Idzik sure as hell knows that.
Then why wasn't it a problem this year? If that was the case and everyone knows that, he should have been cut this season.
You used conjecture as pure fact. That's not a great way to present an argument.
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Rex has a problem with holdin on to players that have outstayed their worth. He needs to change that culture with the team and letting go of Sanchez would be a huge step in that direction.
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Then why wasn't it a problem this year? If that was the case and everyone knows that, he should have been cut this season.
You used conjecture as pure fact. That's not a great way to present an argument.
He was injured. That's different. As far as he's concerned it's still his team, and Geno is just a stopgap QB. This is why he didn't rock the boat much. You better believe that will change once he's healthy.
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Tommy is engaging in pure conjecture but I don't see much good comming from having a healthy Sanchez hanging around on the sidelines. There are a lot of potential chemistry and locker room problems that, while not guaranteed, could arise from that scenario. It's not worth the potential trouble.
The team has to move on from Sanchez regardless of whether or not Geno is the answer.
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No, but it might have helped him to miss a year.
Of course he has to correct the turnovers, especially the fumbles, if he's going to play anywhere. That said, anyone we get will have been released from another team because of his own problems, otherwise he won't be released.
Of course. Especially in the case of guys like Schaub.
For any vets who aren't being kicked to the curb, we'll have to give up something of value, like draft picks or a relatively large contract for someone who isn't necessarily getting the starting job.
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Tommy is engaging in pure conjecture but I don't see much good comming from having a healthy Sanchez hanging around on the sidelines. There are a lot of potential chemistry and locker room problems that, while not guaranteed, could arise from that scenario. It's not worth the potential trouble.
The team has to move on from Sanchez regardless of whether or not Geno is the answer.
Yeah, maybe I should have phrased it differently, but does anyone honestly believe that Sanchez is just going to sit back on the sidelines as if nothing happened? The guy is better off with a fresh start somewhere else. I'm sure he wants to stay because he believes that he can win his job back, but if he doesn't it's going to be a shitshow.
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He was injured. That's different. As far as he's concerned it's still his team, and Geno is just a stopgap QB. This is why he didn't rock the boat much. You better believe that will change once he's healthy.
"He will be a problem despite having no history of ever being a problem."
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Rex has a problem with holdin on to players that have outstayed their worth. He needs to change that culture with the team and letting go of Sanchez would be a huge step in that direction.
I think Idzik will be the decider on that. Sanchez isn't his QB, and they are rebuilding. If this was Rex & Tanny, I could see Sanchez being here due to the blind loyalty.
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"He will be a problem despite having no history of ever being a problem."
History has to start somewhere. I doubt the Jets FO share your insane optimism.
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History has to start somewhere. I doubt the Jets FO share your insane optimism.
I'm sure their biggest concern is his albatross of a contract.
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I'm sure their biggest concern is his albatross of a contract.
That's the biggest issue. A non starter can't make that kind of money, and that's why he's being cut. It has nothing to do with the conjuring of locker room problems, it has everything to do with the fact that his salary can go to a player who will make an impact.
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It's unbelievable how people just make excrement up to "prove" their point. Locker room issues? You mean like all the reports of Sanchez being incredibly helpful to Geno and still being a leader even after his injury?
Badger said it already: there are enough reasons for Sanchez to not come back that you don't need to invent new ones. It does look like the arguments against him returning are all based on an emotional response.
There is exactly one scenario where I see Sanchez in Green-and-White in September. He would need to completely restructure his deal to spread it out over more years and give up any guaranteed money. The only way for him to return at this point is to make it so team-friendly that there is no reason not to do it. If you can reduce his cap number below what you'd sacrifice via cutting him it becomes worth it.
He'd already know the playbook, which you never want him to actually need to use anyway. He'd also be a significant push to Geno in the offseason because he's already familiar with the team and playbook.
The fact is, if we ever see the backup QB in a game next year it's because the entire thing crashed and burned and we're in a full-scale rebuild in 2015 anyway.
The third QB on the roster should be someone we draft this year. It doesn't need to be a first rounder, but it should be someone we believe can be groomed to be the successor to the position no matter who starts in the Fall.
This all goes out the window if you can get a Cutler or maybe Cousins.
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How was he a leader to the team after his injury? At best he eas partially filling the role they wanted for Garrard until he was put on IR.
How often do you see a guy drafted to be the franchise QB stick around after being replaced by a younger guy? It happens with stop gaps who are signed to start while a roomie sits for a year(Kitna/Palmer).
Sanchez needs to go. If the Jets are not going to draft Geno's replacement this year then he should be out there so he can be evaluated. There's no reason to bring back the Sanchez drama by keeping him around.
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How was he a leader to the team after his injury? At best he eas partially filling the role they wanted for Garrard until he was put on IR.
How often do you see a guy drafted to be the franchise QB stick around after being replaced by a younger guy? It happens with stop gaps who are signed to start while a roomie sits for a year(Kitna/Palmer).
Sanchez needs to go. If the Jets are not going to draft Geno's replacement this year then he should be out there so he can be evaluated. There's no reason to bring back the Sanchez drama by keeping him around.
Thank you.
Sanchez should not be an option. Period.
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Thank you.
Sanchez should not be an option. Period.
Whether or not you like it, he is an option. Not saying he's the option they'll go with, but it's more realistic than you'd like to think.
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Whether or not you like it, he is an option. Not saying he's the option they'll go with, but it's more realistic than you'd like to think.
Alright. He's a dumb and totally unrealistic option.
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Alright. He's a dumb and totally unrealistic option.
Close enough.
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^I'll go with that.
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Agreed.
Happy New Year!
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He'd already know the playbook, which you never want him to actually need to use anyway. He'd also be a significant push to Geno in the offseason because he's already familiar with the team and playbook.
This is why it might be better than bringing a new guy in with a similar resume. We can make the argument that he should have had a year to sit and watch five years ago, but now he has. Not for the reasons anyone wanted but with the offense we currently have, not the one we had then.
Ideally I'd rather have a guy with more experience, like 30-35 range with less penchant for turnovers, but there might not be a guy like that available, it's too early to say. It's not so much about what happened in the past, it's about what is the best option now. If that's Sanchez, so be it. Geno is probably going to start anyway, he showed progress and I doubt the Jets want to repeat the same process over this year with anyone available at #18.
I don't know what drama there is going to be. The veterans who played with Sanchez also won with him, the new guys won't give a excrement. It doesn't matter anyway, it matters what happens on the field.
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If we're taking a QB next year, the entire staff will be gone.
Bryce Petty is just as much of a system QB as Geno Smith was coming into the NFL. His decision making will be questionable at best early too.
I agree with this. He is far better mechanically though.
The team can improve and make the playoffs with mediocre QB play. If we don't take a QB this year, and Smith doesn't prove himself as the guy with a revamped, albeit inexperienced skill players, they should address QB.
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Show me one excuse I made for him. He's accountable for his own mistakes but the Jets problems of late 2011 and 2012 weren't all him any more than the success in 2009 and 2010 were all him. He is a guy we can win with, I know this because I've seen it happen already.
Conversely, your "David Carr" reasoning is just writing him off because you want to close your mind off and be an angry fan. Mex Buc and I are both saying look at it logically and see if the other options are any better.
Of course he's probably only saying that because the Mexicans all stick up for one another. :D
I hate Mark Sanchez as a Jet. Always have. However, I am on record as saying he showed signs of improvement during the preseason, and in hindsight probably would have enhanced our season.
However....
Having Mark Sanchez on the roster is not good for him, or good for the organization. Consider the locker room implications and the doubts on lookers (Jets players) will have. That in it's own right is enough to cut him. We need to cut the cord for everyone involved. IMO.
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Sanchez was never the same after Lawrence Timmons lit him up.
This statement is a huge plus for Geno Smith.
He grew up shortly after that big hit (was it the Buffalo game?) and progressed.
Continued: http://www.jetoffensive.com/index.php?topic=412.0
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Sums it up pretty well. I used a very similar explanation. Were mediocre and flirt with greatness every 3 to 5 years without ever being bad enough for a top 3 blue chip
IM personally in the minority that believed Geno started progressing the last few games by running more and actually going through reads.
Got a lot of work to do but everyone wants to dump on him while simultaneously complaining about OL, WR, and TE as if the lack of talent isn't somehow relative to Genos year.
My desire is obvious surround Geno with targets and patch up the OL if he shows no sign if progression you sell the farm for Winston
I don't think you're in the minority on that at all.
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I don't think you're in the minority on that at all.
Hard for me to tell the kid has taken a beating here. Some deserved but the lack of talent across the board is very relative to it IMO
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Hard for me to tell the kid has taken a beating here. Some deserved but the lack of talent across the board is very relative to it IMO
I think it would be fair to say he wasn't given the same chance Sanchez had been given. To begin with, he was following up Sanchez, who followed up Favre, who followed up Chad. That's an awful hope flushed down the drain the past decade.
Beyond that, many people didn't want to draft him anyway. I think we looked forward to this year and when he was picked we all thought "Fine, but he's not the answer we will find next year."
Couple all of that with the very real chance he never would have been the starter last year if Sanchez hadn't played against the Giants and the kid was behind the 8-ball before he ever got a shot.
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Here's a summed up version of my take on Geno Smith:
I didn't want the Jets to draft him (in the first round) because I loved the 2014 QB class. It made a lot more sense value wise in the second round, but I was still against drafting a QB.
After everything settled down, I was fine with Smith here as a developmental prospect...but not an immediate starter. When Mark Sanchez outplayed him in the preseason, everything was fine. Still wished we had a pass rusher/receiver/safety/guard/anything else over Geno Smith, but he was a part of the Jets.
Sanchez goes down. excrement hits the fan. Smith is the next man up.
Yes, I complained about him for most of the season because all of his mistakes were what I expected from him as as prospect - it was more of "I told ya so" than anything. I think I'd have to be borderline retarded to not see improvement over the last few weeks of the season, and that was good to see.
With all of that said, I want to see him in a QB competition and I will not be surprised if he loses out. The team isn't tied to him financially and he didn't do enough to prove he's the real deal yet. Get some weapons for this offense and go to work.
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Here's a summed up version of my take on Geno Smith:
I didn't want the Jets to draft him (in the first round) because I loved the 2014 QB class. It made a lot more sense value wise in the second round, but I was still against drafting a QB.
After everything settled down, I was fine with Smith here as a developmental prospect...but not an immediate starter. When Mark Sanchez outplayed him in the preseason, everything was fine. Still wished we had a pass rusher/receiver/safety/guard/anything else over Geno Smith, but he was a part of the Jets.
Sanchez goes down. excrement hits the fan. Smith is the next man up.
Yes, I complained about him for most of the season because all of his mistakes were what I expected from him as as prospect - it was more of "I told ya so" than anything. I think I'd have to be borderline retarded to not see improvement over the last few weeks of the season, and that was good to see.
With all of that said, I want to see him in a QB competition and I will not be surprised if he loses out. The team isn't tied to him financially and he didn't do enough to prove he's the real deal yet. Get some weapons for this offense and go to work.
As of right now, I think drafting Geno was the correct move. Looking at our draft position right now (assuming we would be around the same pick), we would most likely be out of the running for Bridgewater, Bortles and Manziel, and there's a good chance Carr wouldnt be there either. After that, I dont think there would be any true upgrade over Geno as a prospect anyway (plus, Im not a huge fan or Bortles). As a 2nd round pick, Geno had good value and he was expected to need "adjusting" to the NFL coming from Holgorsens system.
His best weapon last year was a solid slot receiver who was hurt for a decent part of the season, and every other receiver missed a portion of the season as well. I think its reasonable to expect an increase in quality of play with an improved supporting cast.
If he doesnt, like you said, we arent financially tied to him so we have the opportunity to move on.
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After that, I dont think there would be any true upgrade over Geno as a prospect anyway (plus, Im not a huge fan or Bortles).
Derek Carr
Blake Bortles
Teddy Bridgewater
Johnny Manziel
AJ McCarron
Zach Mettenberger
Jimmy Garoppolo
Geno Smith would be lucky to go in the second round if he were a part of this draft class.
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Derek Carr
Blake Bortles
Teddy Bridgewater
Johnny Manziel
AJ McCarron
Zach Mettenberger
Jimmy Garoppolo
Geno Smith would be lucky to go in the second round if he were a part of this draft class.
Horsecrap, Phil Simms said he would be the best QB if he was in this group. I believe him.
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Phil Simms drinks.
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Jeeeeeem
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Here's a summed up version of my take on Geno Smith:
I didn't want the Jets to draft him (in the first round) because I loved the 2014 QB class. It made a lot more sense value wise in the second round, but I was still against drafting a QB.
After everything settled down, I was fine with Smith here as a developmental prospect...but not an immediate starter. When Mark Sanchez outplayed him in the preseason, everything was fine. Still wished we had a pass rusher/receiver/safety/guard/anything else over Geno Smith, but he was a part of the Jets.
Sanchez goes down. excrement hits the fan. Smith is the next man up.
Yes, I complained about him for most of the season because all of his mistakes were what I expected from him as as prospect - it was more of "I told ya so" than anything. I think I'd have to be borderline retarded to not see improvement over the last few weeks of the season, and that was good to see.
With all of that said, I want to see him in a QB competition and I will not be surprised if he loses out. The team isn't tied to him financially and he didn't do enough to prove he's the real deal yet. Get some weapons for this offense and go to work.
Well said.
The only thing I would kind of disagree with is the part about a competition. My personal preference, and granted it may be unrealistic, is to draft one of these big prospects in May. I'm hoping McCarron falls to us.
In that case, I'd want Geno to start without any competition. Let him sink or swim while the draftee sits and learns. Worst case scenario is that Geno flops, we lose a year of contention (when we may not contend anyway), we identify the remaining holes on offense, and plug them in 2015 for the second-year QB.
Best case: Geno excels and we trade the kid away for a nice pick.
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Derek Carr
Blake Bortles
Teddy Bridgewater
Johnny Manziel
AJ McCarron
Zach Mettenberger
Jimmy Garoppolo
Geno Smith would be lucky to go in the second round if he were a part of this draft class.
I said after the first 4 QBs (who could/should be gone by 18), I dont see anyone else as a big upgrade.
Im not going to act like I really know how to scout a QB prospect, but the last 3 dont seem like upgrades right now. I can certainly get behind any of those guys if we picked them in the 2nd or 3rd rounds and they could end up being better than Geno.
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I said after the first 4 QBs (who could/should be gone by 18), I dont see anyone else as a big upgrade.
Im not going to act like I really know how to scout a QB prospect, but the last 3 dont seem like upgrades right now. I can certainly get behind any of those guys if we picked them in the 2nd or 3rd rounds and they could end up being better than Geno.
Mettenberger would likely be in that first group as a prospect if he didn't have an ACL problem. The ACL may be perfect for the Jets as we can get a very good developmental QB, still give Geno this season, and if Geno doesn't work, we already have another young option on the roster.
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Phil Simms drinks.
So do I.
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http://overthecap.com/going-mark-sanchez/
Pretty good article explaining how it may make the most sense to keep Sanchez and have a repeat of the 2013 QB competition.
Seeing what's out there currently, I agree. Keep in mind, he's still only 27. Geno Smith is 23. If we can get some good receivers in here, I think seeing Sanchez improve (after a year off to clear his head) might be as good as seeing Geno improve. Who knows. I can't say I'd have said Sanchez was the best second QB option a month ago, but now that most of the good options are gone, he might be.
tl;dr- Nacho is probably no worse than Vick at this point. Hang on to him until the 25th, there won't be any other places he might be able to start by then. Squeeze him into a friendlier deal by making NY his best shot to start.
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They'd have to restructure him though.
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They'd have to restructure him though.
Of course.
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Makes you wonder if this is the reason we havent signed Vick yet
10 more days and we should have a much better idea of who our QB is going to be
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I've been saying it for months but you all thought I was just watching out for my raza
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Keeping Sanchez is a mistake. The fanbase despises him. Just move on.
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I've been saying it for months but you all thought I was just watching out for my raza
DAMN YOU MEXICANS!!!!
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Keeping Sanchez is a mistake. The fanbase despises him. Just move on.
You sure? Reading the posts of the fans on ESPN.com and NFL.com actually says otherwise (not a representative sample but better than just perception).
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You sure? Reading the posts of the fans on ESPN.com and NFL.com actually says otherwise (not a representative sample but better than just perception).
Nope, people might boo and we can't have that. Better cut him and sign Brandon Weeden.
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Sign Carr. Draft Carr. Crash the Super Bowl.
I'm OK with keeping Sanchez on so long as it is under severely reduced pay.
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Nope, people might boo and we can't have that. Better cut him and sign Brandon Weeden.
I get that you still think Sanchez is the answer, and you want him to be the franchise, but you have to at least understand why it's best to cut ties. It's over. I think some of you need to move on.
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Can't hear you over the thunderous roar of hypothetical booing.
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I get that you still think Sanchez is the answer, and you want him to be the franchise, but you have to at least understand why it's best to cut ties. It's over. I think some of you need to move on.
The question we need to answer right now is very simple, who is the best guy we can bring into our building to be a capable backup this year, and possibly push Geno Smith, and at minimum give us a viable guy to play if Smith has any sort of lapse like he did a year ago. The last two years we haven't had anybody capable of that, we cannot do that 3 years in a row.
Based on what I see on the market, I see two options left that can do that, Vick and Sanchez. If we can't bring in Vick for whatever reason, we might have to accept Sanchez is the only guy who can do what we desperately need next year. Obviously he will only be allowed to do so on a massive paycut, but it might well be our best/only option unless we are ok with sitting through another horrific stretch by Geno like he had last season, without anyone to turn to.
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Even if you want to throw out the bit about the fanbase hating him -- what promise has Mark Sanchez shown as a starting QB? Do we really want to waste more time on him?
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Even if you want to throw out the bit about the fanbase hating him -- what promise has Mark Sanchez shown as a starting QB? Do we really want to waste more time on him?
The 2011 season?
Bad OL, poor offensive weapons, reasonable numbers? Not to mention he consistently improved every year (till his final year starting he significantly regressed but weapons were at their worst)
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http://overthecap.com/going-mark-sanchez/
Pretty good article explaining how it may make the most sense to keep Sanchez and have a repeat of the 2013 QB competition.
Seeing what's out there currently, I agree. Keep in mind, he's still only 27. Geno Smith is 23. If we can get some good receivers in here, I think seeing Sanchez improve (after a year off to clear his head) might be as good as seeing Geno improve. Who knows. I can't say I'd have said Sanchez was the best second QB option a month ago, but now that most of the good options are gone, he might be.
tl;dr- Nacho is probably no worse than Vick at this point. Hang on to him until the 25th, there won't be any other places he might be able to start by then. Squeeze him into a friendlier deal by making NY his best shot to start.
Doesn't it speak volumes that Sanchez is still in the mix as a potential starter on this team about Geno's ability and the need to scrap all of them and take another chance on a goddamn blue chip QB.
I believed in Sanchez when he was drafted. I saw him show that he could play in the league. I saw them strip him of his weapons, protection, etc.
But the answer isn't on this roster. It just isn't.
Rex is one of the best coaches to ever command this team, and if they gave him a top 12 QB they'd win 11+ game a season.
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Doesn't it speak volumes that Sanchez is still in the mix as a potential starter on this team about Geno's ability and the need to scrap all of them and take another chance on a goddamn blue chip QB.
I believed in Sanchez when he was drafted. I saw him show that he could play in the league. I saw them strip him of his weapons, protection, etc.
But the answer isn't on this roster. It just isn't.
Rex is one of the best coaches to ever command this team, and if they gave him a top 12 QB they'd win 11+ game a season.
The one season Sanchez played like a top 20 QB, we did win 11 games in 2010. how depressing is that?
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Sanchez is our best long term option. I hope we can restructure his contract and keep him for the next 5 years. Maybe a 5 years 60 million fully guaranteed? What do y'all think?
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
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Sanchez is our best long term option. I hope we can restructure his contract and keep him for the next 5 years. Maybe a 5 years 60 million fully guaranteed? What do y'all think?
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
I see TGG is still producing troglodytes by the boatload. This one must've got away from the herd by accident.
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I see TGG is still producing troglodytes by the boatload. This one must've got away from the herd by accident.
From what I've seen so far he's probably the most knowledgeable poster there
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Nothing exciting, but still....
http://www.tmz.com/2014/03/16/mark-sanchez-ny-jets-shoulder-comeback-injury-video/
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Nothing exciting, but still....
http://www.tmz.com/2014/03/16/mark-sanchez-ny-jets-shoulder-comeback-injury-video/
Hobbes thanks you for this post.
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The one season Sanchez played like a top 20 QB, we did win 11 games in 2010. how depressing is that?
Not depressing, just telling of what Rex can do with a good team.
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I see TGG is still producing troglodytes by the boatload. This one must've got away from the herd by accident.
Or it's sarcasm.
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I get that you still think Sanchez is the answer, and you want him to be the franchise, but you have to at least understand why it's best to cut ties. It's over. I think some of you need to move on.
Thank you sir. I can't have Sanchez back - sorry.
Let's move and go back to our lives citizens.
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Sanchez is our best long term option. I hope we can restructure his contract and keep him for the next 5 years. Maybe a 5 years 60 million fully guaranteed? What do y'all think?
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
Jamie, we don't mind opposition fans here but at least have the honesty to be yourself. Are you going to change your name to LeedsPatriot or am I? Stop being a dick.
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Doesn't it speak volumes that Sanchez is still in the mix as a potential starter on this team about Geno's ability and the need to scrap all of them and take another chance on a goddamn blue chip QB.
I believed in Sanchez when he was drafted. I saw him show that he could play in the league. I saw them strip him of his weapons, protection, etc.
But the answer isn't on this roster. It just isn't.
Rex is one of the best coaches to ever command this team, and if they gave him a top 12 QB they'd win 11+ game a season.
My disappointment.
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Wait, this new poster is a British patriots fan? Ugh.
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Wait, this new poster is a British patriots fan? Ugh.
The irony in that
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steal all his tea!
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Derek Carr
Blake Bortles
Teddy Bridgewater
Johnny Manziel
AJ McCarron
Zach Mettenberger
Jimmy Garoppolo
Geno Smith would be lucky to go in the second round if he were a part of this draft class.
if the Jets grabbed one of the last two guys on that list in the 2nd would you actually want them to start this year?
I think I'd feel the same way about Garoppolo as Geno last year even though he might be higher ceiling. Let him sit and start Geno unless the camp/preseason is a massacre
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We are not drafting a QB in the first three rounds, especially after losing the second 3rd we had from Tampa. The team has way too many holes that we need to fill, and we haven't done so in FA. We will go something like WR, TE, G (or S, or LB, or DE, or even RB) before going QB.
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We are not drafting a QB in the first three rounds, especially after losing the second 3rd we had from Tampa. The team has way too many holes that we need to fill, and we haven't done so in FA. We will go something like WR, TE, G (or S, or LB, or DE, or even RB) before going QB.
If the jets think one of those guys can be developed in a year into a starting capable QB, they can and should take one.
We have to draft guys until we find our guy. I agree from a numbers standpoint, we need to improve the talent level everywhere on the roster, so it makes sense to not draft another developmental QB, but if we take a guy you can't be upset by it, it means we aren't standing pat and are trying to find somebody to be our long term guy if Smith can't do it.
Personally I would love Garapollo in the 3rd, but with only one third now, I'm not sure what the best plan is.
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Derek Carr
Blake Bortles
Teddy Bridgewater
Johnny Manziel
AJ McCarron
Zach Mettenberger
Jimmy Garoppolo
Geno Smith would be lucky to go in the second round if he were a part of this draft class.
That's all well and good but it's no reason to draft any of them.
4 or even 5 could go in the first but I feel this QB class is overrated
Carr and AJ after Rd 1 were the only intriguing picks and Carr will go in the 1St
At this point I'd much rather address other holes.
Granted the board will always dictate the overall value but IM not in a rush to draft one of these guys just for the sake of it.
I was on team Bridgewater cause I assumed wed be picking top 8 but that went out the window
And I've been.complaining about the OL since 2011 so IM not going to consider last year any indicator if anything Geno related aside from the fact he ended the year actually improving his tuck n run discretion and finally started going through progressions
Which is more than I can ask for a guy we all know should've been sitting to begin with.
IM in the load up on offense to better evaluate Geno camp
And as unrealistic as it sounds if that fails it's Winston or bust for me
If you would've told me a year ago I'd be arguing to let Geno develop I'd punch Doc Brown and Marty McFly in the face
But that's where we stand
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Wait, this new poster is a British patriots fan? Ugh.
No, no , no that's JE's friend from the Poz forums.
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And as unrealistic as it sounds if that fails it's Winston or bust for me
The problem as I see it is this, how are we going to get our hands on Winston?
I mean we went 8-8 with a horrific offense, and largely young and untalented roster. Next year we will be a year older and more developed, we will be more talented unless we royally freak up the draft. I think we can all agree our offense is already better without the draft given that we have a healthy #1 WR which we did not have last year. Oh and we also had Geno put together a historically bad portion of the season.
Given that we should be improved in every area, and Geno can't possibly be any worse than he was a year ago, its hard to see us not being at least 8-8 again, and it would be downright shocking, and an injury riddled season to go 3-13 to be in the running for the top pick.
If somebody else gets the #1 pick, barring us doing the total Ditka (as in more than what Washington gave up to move up 2 spots for RGIII) I can't see anybody giving up the pick to take Winston, unless he fucks up this year, and then nobody will want him anymore than they want a guy like Blake Bortles.
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Oakland look like they're doing everything they can to secure Winston next year.
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If you would've told me a year ago I'd be arguing to let Geno develop I'd punch Doc Brown and Marty McFly in the face
Coach Biff
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The problem as I see it is this, how are we going to get our hands on Winston?
I mean we went 8-8 with a horrific offense, and largely young and untalented roster. Next year we will be a year older and more developed, we will be more talented unless we royally freak up the draft. I think we can all agree our offense is already better without the draft given that we have a healthy #1 WR which we did not have last year. Oh and we also had Geno put together a historically bad portion of the season.
Given that we should be improved in every area, and Geno can't possibly be any worse than he was a year ago, its hard to see us not being at least 8-8 again, and it would be downright shocking, and an injury riddled season to go 3-13 to be in the running for the top pick.
If somebody else gets the #1 pick, barring us doing the total Ditka (as in more than what Washington gave up to move up 2 spots for RGIII) I can't see anybody giving up the pick to take Winston, unless he fucks up this year, and then nobody will want him anymore than they want a guy like Blake Bortles.
Let me preface this by saying this is only viable if Jameis Winston has a sequel performance after losing a large portion of his supporting cast.
Ill take a beating for suggesting this, but lets say we have a good draft where we land another starting WR, a rotational OL and one of our defensive needs is addressed (pass rush or Safety)
so lets say we get 3 solid contributors this draft in key needs.
you then sell the freaking farm for Winston. we can circle jerk about draft boards every year but if Winston can follow up what he did last year hes worth whatever the hell you pay for him.
this is where the cap space were not using comes into play to make a STRONG push in FA next year, now I havent used the foresight to look at next years list cause its far too early for that.
Indy had the luxury of sucking their way into Andrew Luck, we wont. but like i said, if Winston can replicate what he did last year with more question marks on his supporting cast, hes as close to Luck as your gonna get.
I'll take a beating for bias this, bias that, I can assure you as an FSU fan I am highly critical of Jimbo Fisher's playcalling. Jimbo and Winston have a great relationship, but Fisher's track record shows hes not a developer, hes a recruiter with a multiple offense scheme, and it works in college.
What I'm getting at is I believe Winston's success is partially in SPITE of Fisher, not attributed to.
I said it only a few weeks into the kids career, Winston is somewhere between Luck and Big Ben. (i made the joke that my Big Ben comparisons were eerily apt after the rape allegations)
but all jokes aside barring a catastrophe in Tallahassee, this kid will join Luck as the best QB to come out in 10-15 years.
so yes, if we have a good draft this year to accelerate the rebuild, and Geno doesnt progress, you sell your first born child to get him in green and white.
I realize this whole premise has multiple contingencies that are pure conjecture at this point, but fact of the matter is im freaking bored.
and lets be honest, having a good QB makes up for a lot of other unit deficiencies because weve seen what loading up in other areas gets you, freaking nothing in the grand scheme of things.
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if someone could move my two long QB related posts from the Eric Decker thread i would appreciate it
seeing some of the quotes and posts that prompted those responses has me realizing that my rants just belong here instead.
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if someone could move my two long QB related posts from the Eric Decker thread i would appreciate it
seeing some of the quotes and posts that prompted those responses has me realizing that my rants just belong here instead.
Moved the whole conversation.
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Moved the whole conversation.
thanks, i appreciate it.
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Morecharacters just hates geno and he's hoping he can wish his way into the jets taking a QB.
Unless there's tremendous value , it's not happening in the first three rounds. Maybe 4th or 5th or 6th. And that person isn't likely to push to be the starter
Get over it. The coaching staff likes Geno and thinks he showed enough improvement and has enough skills to not invest heavily in the position at this point. If they can build the pieces around him , even if he doesn't work out it'll be much easier to transition someone else there.
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It was more a hypothetical about the value of sitting an unpolished QB vs. starting him. Like last year. I don't hate Geno. I hated starting him last year, he had no business being on the field.
This year, if he can fairly beat out a guy like Vick or Sanchez, by all means he should start.
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I've been along the same lines with MexJet. I said from the start that I felt re-structuring Sanchez (reducing salary, not fiddling like Tanny did) was the best option short of acquiring Cutler. He and Geno can compete for the job this year, hopefully with a draftee in-house as well.
If Sanchez wins the battle, Geno sits and learns. If Geno wins, Sanchez is a capable backup who knows the system.
Is either the long-term answer? Who knows? Maybe not. Still, those two make the best option available to us right now; regardless of whether a fickle fanbase wants to see if Sanchez can resurrect his career.
What I think is funny is the idea that Sanchez could excel with a change of scenery, but not here. Nevermind if we provided a nice option like Decker, or possibly an additional option. Nevermind if Cumberland and/or Nelson progresses. Forget a significanly improved Kerley from the one he's already thrown to, or anyone we might draft. None of these things is enough for a grown man to get past a few boos.
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I've been along the same lines with MexJet. I said from the start that I felt re-structuring Sanchez (reducing salary, not fiddling like Tanny did) was the best option short of acquiring Cutler. He and Geno can compete for the job this year, hopefully with a draftee in-house as well.
If Sanchez wins the battle, Geno sits and learns. If Geno wins, Sanchez is a capable backup who knows the system.
Is either the long-term answer? Who knows? Maybe not. Still, those two make the best option available to us right now; regardless of whether a fickle fanbase wants to see if Sanchez can resurrect his career.
What I think is funny is the idea that Sanchez could excel with a change of scenery, but not here. Nevermind if we provided a nice option like Decker, or possibly an additional option. Nevermind if Cumberland and/or Nelson progresses. Forget a significanly improved Kerley from the one he's already thrown to, or anyone we might draft. None of these things is enough for a grown man to get past a few boos.
Alio,
I can't agree with you. Frankly I don't care if Sanchez gets a gig elsewhere or flourishes. He is done here simply because he is a liability and isn't like great quarterbacks who have amnesia after a excrement play- he feeds of confidence from his own game and when things go wrong he suffers.
Can you only imagine if and when he has a bad play or interception- the crowd will kill him. By keeping Sanchez we will court disaster because the one things he will bring to the party is another QB controversy and that's the last thing our young Geno needs.
Lets move on.
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Alio,
I can't agree with you. Frankly I don't care if Sanchez gets a gig elsewhere or flourishes. He is done here simply because he is a liability and isn't like great quarterbacks who have amnesia after a excrement play- he feeds of confidence from his own game and when things go wrong he suffers.
Can you only imagine if and when he has a bad play or interception- the crowd will kill him. By keeping Sanchez we will court disaster because the one things he will bring to the party is another QB controversy and that's the last thing our young Geno needs.
Lets move on.
And I can't agree with you.
Saying he's done here because he's a "liability" is the epitome of presenting opinion as fact. Every QB feeds off his own confidence in-game and when things go wrong, they all suffer. The formula for beating Brady and Manning is to hit them early and often. Why? Because it makes them fall apart. Just like any other QB.
As for the crowd killing him, sure, if he messes up he'll get boo'd. He'll also get cheered if he throws a TD. It's funny how when he was winning the QB competition last summer no one was making this argument.
As for Geno, there is going to be a camp controversy. Whether it's Sanchez, Vick, Freeman, some other free agent, or a guy we draft, it's already been made clear it's not automatically Geno's job going into camp.
If Sanchez legitimately beats him in training camp there is no reason for Sanchez not to play. To say otherwise is to put your personal feelings ahead of the good of the team. Fortunately, our coaching staff and front office couldn't care less what the fanbase thinks and will do what it feels gives them the best chance to win.
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Morecharacters just hates geno and he's hoping he can wish his way into the jets taking a QB.
Unless there's tremendous value , it's not happening in the first three rounds. Maybe 4th or 5th or 6th. And that person isn't likely to push to be the starter
Get over it. The coaching staff likes Geno and thinks he showed enough improvement and has enough skills to not invest heavily in the position at this point. If they can build the pieces around him , even if he doesn't work out it'll be much easier to transition someone else there.
I wouldn't say we're not drafting a QB in the first 3 rounds until we sign a #2 quarterback.
Sanchez, Vick, Schaub, Fitz someone.
If Simms is looking like our 2, I wouldn't be shocked if we went QB early ish
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I still laugh at Hobbe$ saying Sanchez would be under center for the Jets in 2014. Now I'm not laughing so much anymore.
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Maybe we can just trade Sanchez straight up for Schaub. We can just swap bad memories.
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Maybe we can just trade Sanchez straight up for Schaub. We can just swap bad memories.
Schaub's cap hit is 14.5 million this year.
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Schaub's cap hit is 14.5 million this year.
I didn't mean take that on. I wasn't thinking about the cap, just the player. Damn you and your accuracy.
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Rapoport just tweeted that once the Texans release Schaub [and he heads to Oakland] Houston will be interested in Sanchez when/if he's cut.
I highly doubt we'd get any trade partners for Sanchez. Regardless of whether you think he can start or not, no team is going to trade for a guy that they can wait out for release. If the Jets don't release him, Houston can always pick a QB in May.
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so yes, if we have a good draft this year to accelerate the rebuild, and Geno doesnt progress, you sell your first born child to get him in green and white.
I'm not disagreeing with any of this. If Winston has another crazy good season he is Luck-lite. Which means he will go #1 no questions asked. Which of course means everybody is going to want him.
If we go 6-10 and pick at #10 (which I still think is highly unlikely) it would cost us at least 3 #1s and probably then some.
If we go 8-8 and end up up at 18 its going to cost us probably our entire 2015 draft, and probably half of 2016 as well. Thats IF nobody in front of us is willing to make the same deal.
If we actually make the playoffs inspite of our QB play, which we almost did a year ago, and could well do so this year, it will be impossible without giving up 2-3 full drafts, and thats just flat out suicide, Winston would have a hard time succeeding.
That of course assumes whatever team obtains the #1 overall is even willing to deal and give up Winston.
Honestly unless we have a top 5 pick (either by trading back into the top of the 2nd round, and got a first next year for our trouble, or sucking on our own) I just can't imagine obtaining Winston is even a remote option.
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And I can't agree with you.
Saying he's done here because he's a "liability" is the epitome of presenting opinion as fact. Every QB feeds off his own confidence in-game and when things go wrong, they all suffer. The formula for beating Brady and Manning is to hit them early and often. Why? Because it makes them fall apart. Just like any other QB.
As for the crowd killing him, sure, if he messes up he'll get boo'd. He'll also get cheered if he throws a TD. It's funny how when he was winning the QB competition last summer no one was making this argument.
As for Geno, there is going to be a camp controversy. Whether it's Sanchez, Vick, Freeman, some other free agent, or a guy we draft, it's already been made clear it's not automatically Geno's job going into camp.
If Sanchez legitimately beats him in training camp there is no reason for Sanchez not to play. To say otherwise is to put your personal feelings ahead of the good of the team. Fortunately, our coaching staff and front office couldn't care less what the fanbase thinks and will do what it feels gives them the best chance to win.
Certainly well put and I won't argue with you that if Sanchez is still on board and he plays great the fans and I will cheer him.
I don't want to get embroiled in a for and against. I believe Sanchez is a reasonable QB but he makes poor decisions on the field and the confidence leeches out of him and he becomes desperate and in turn makes poorer decisions; because of this I think he is a liability.
The fans are unforgiving in New York as you know and better quarterbacks than nacho have succumbed to the intense scrutiny and pressure of the Jet faithful, where, I would argue that the coaching staff feel it would be better for the team to bench a player and certainly the quarterback.
Bringing back Mark after his injury only adds to the gamble and an expensive gamble at that. I would prefer to take a chance on a player who offers a legitimate alternative if Geno is struggling. In my opinion it's time to move on.
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A jersey might be too much, but a Jets t-shirt sounds right.
Where is my t-shirt?
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Ideally I'd rather have a guy with more experience, like 30-35 range with less penchant for turnovers...
Said this two years ago.
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Said this two years ago.
Why do you want Geno back so badly?
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Here's a summed up version of my take on Geno Smith:
I didn't want the Jets to draft him (in the first round) because I loved the 2014 QB class. It made a lot more sense value wise in the second round, but I was still against drafting a QB.
After everything settled down, I was fine with Smith here as a developmental prospect...but not an immediate starter. When Mark Sanchez outplayed him in the preseason, everything was fine. Still wished we had a pass rusher/receiver/safety/guard/anything else over Geno Smith, but he was a part of the Jets.
Sanchez goes down. excrement hits the fan. Smith is the next man up.
Yes, I complained about him for most of the season because all of his mistakes were what I expected from him as as prospect - it was more of "I told ya so" than anything. I think I'd have to be borderline retarded to not see improvement over the last few weeks of the season, and that was good to see.
With all of that said, I want to see him in a QB competition and I will not be surprised if he loses out. The team isn't tied to him financially and he didn't do enough to prove he's the real deal yet. Get some weapons for this offense and go to work.
Stop riding Geno's dick.
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Stop riding Geno's dick.
I see no dick riding.
Fitzpatrick ftw
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I was wrong. Fitzy has shown me that he's more than a rando chucker. He chucks, but it works.
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I was wrong. Fitzy has shown me that he's more than a rando chucker. He chucks, but it works.
Thoughtful chucking.
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He's a great caretaker for the position til we can find a long term answer. We will have to pay him, but he's played far too well to let him walk. And if he keeps playing well, then keep playing him..
I think the QB position is pretty clear now. You start Fitz, and get 2 young guys behind him, with Petty being one. The new staff has seen Geno for a year now, and they'll decide if he's worthy of keeping around.
The only 2 questions to answer are...
1. How much do you pay Fitz?
2. Do you keep Geno atound?
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I don't know the answer to #1, but #2 is a resounding no.
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He's a great caretaker for the position til we can find a long term answer. We will have to pay him, but he's played far too well to let him walk. And if he keeps playing well, then keep playing him..
I think the QB position is pretty clear now. You start Fitz, and get 2 young guys behind him, with Petty being one. The new staff has seen Geno for a year now, and they'll decide if he's worthy of keeping around.
The only 2 questions to answer are...
1. How much do you pay Fitz?
2. Do you keep Geno atound?
1. As much as he wants with a reasonable out.
2. Lawl.
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Geno is awful. He should be out of the league.
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I don't know the answer to #1, but #2 is a resounding no.
I already know most people's opinions on #2, but I'm on board with whatever the staff thinks. He's cheap and young enough where it makes sense to keep him but no one knows how he has handled his demotion.
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I think Fitzpatrick is reasonable enough to realize that it will hurt the team to pay him a ton of money.
Josh McCown got 3 years, $14M. 3 years, $20M with all the guarantees up front is very fair.
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I answered question one in another thread. I'd love to see a 2-year guaranteed contract with a mutual option on a 3rd. I'd be fine with 8 million a year, 6 guaranteed (the other 2 million easily attainable) and the mutual option to be 12 million. I'd draft a QB in this draft. I don't care which round (I'd prefer not the first) but whenever BPA is available. Have Fitz groom Petty for those two years. If he's played well enough to deserve that 3rd year, give it. If he thinks he can improve on $12 million, ce la vie.
You really even have to ask the Smith question?
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If we make the playoffs and Fitzpatrick and company pull off some excrement and win a game, I don't think he'll play for another NFL team.
And neither will Brandon Marshall because they seem to really like playing football together.
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If we make the playoffs and Fitzpatrick and company pull off some excrement and win a game, I don't think he'll play for another NFL team.
And neither will Brandon Marshall because they seem to really like playing football together.
His chemistry with these guys is amazing. This is a real easy team to pull for. I love these on field interviews.
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hey fitzpatrick now that you've had the best year of your career and probably made the playoffs for the first time in your career and are in a perfect situation on a team that is a great fit for you with the coach that you've had your best success in the nfl do you want to take our reasonable offer for millions of dollars to likely be a jet in some capacity for the rest of your career or do you want to try and see if there's actually a team out there that is going to believe in you and think you're going to be as good on a team without gailey and decker and marshall and pay you a couple more million dollars than we want to pay you to make all of your dreams in football come tru?
plzkthxbai
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hey fitzpatrick now that you've had the best year of your career and probably made the playoffs for the first time in your career and are in a perfect situation on a team that is a great fit for you with the coach that you've had your best success in the nfl do you want to take our reasonable offer for millions of dollars to likely be a jet in some capacity for the rest of your career or do you want to try and see if there's actually a team out there that is going to believe in you and think you're going to be as good on a team without gailey and decker and marshall and pay you a couple more million dollars than we want to pay you to make all of your dreams in football come tru?
plzkthxbai
In theory, I agree with you, but when an athlete has to choose between more money and less money, he typically opts for more money.
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he's still ryan fitzpatrick
what nfl team out there is looking at him and saying "well hey we're almost like the jets, we would have a contending team if we had a decent QB, let's bet millions of dollars that ryan fitzpatrick is going to come and win a superbowl for us when we pay him way more monies than the jets want to"
maybe it could happen, there are stupid people in the world
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he's still ryan fitzpatrick
what nfl team out there is looking at him and saying "well hey we're almost like the jets, we would have a contending team if we had a decent QB, let's bet millions of dollars that ryan fitzpatrick is going to come and win a superbowl for us when we pay him way more monies than the jets want to"
maybe it could happen, there are stupid people in the world
It's hard to know. Cimini was on the radio and he talked to an agent who said he'd get $10M-$12M on the open market.
My guess is we end up giving him $8M with some incentives.
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In theory, I agree with you, but when an athlete has to choose between more money and less money, he typically opts for more money.
He's white though.
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It's hard to know. Cimini was on the radio and he talked to an agent who said he'd get $10M-$12M on the open market.
That's a damn good agent...
Honestly, which teams are going to pay him that much money? Cleveland, St. Louis, and San Francisco are really the only teams that could go spend big money on a QB. He'd be a fool to go to any of those teams.
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was the agent a representative of CAA sports and did he have a massive erection at the time
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It's hard to know. Cimini was on the radio and he talked to an agent who said he'd get $10M-$12M on the open market.
My guess is we end up giving him $8M with some incentives.
I doubt he takes less than 10m a year
I think the "best" case scenario is we get a contract similar to what the Bills gave him in 2011
Except not 6 years, and with something for us to protect ourselves from injuries since he still has no clue how to slide.
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That's a damn good agent...
Honestly, which teams are going to pay him that much money? Cleveland, St. Louis, and San Francisco are really the only teams that could go spend big money on a QB. He'd be a fool to go to any of those teams.
That's why I'm optimistic we can get him a little cheaper (like $8M), there aren't that many teams that need a QB like Fitz.
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That's why I'm optimistic we can get him a little cheaper (like $8M), there aren't that many teams that need a QB like Fitz.
Those teams would probably be more comfortable drafting a QB with their high pick too.
I think Paxton Lynch and Jared Goff will end up on two of those three teams.
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That's a damn good agent...
Honestly, which teams are going to pay him that much money? Cleveland, St. Louis, and San Francisco are really the only teams that could go spend big money on a QB. He'd be a fool to go to any of those teams.
Philly could get in the QB market, Buffalo, Houston.
If youre Denver and Peyton retires, it could make sense for them to chase a QB as well.
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Philly could get in the QB market, Buffalo, Houston.
Buffalo and Houston will not bring back Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Philadelphia is a terrible fit for him.
If youre Denver and Peyton retires, it could make sense for them to chase a QB as well.
They'll stick with Brock Osweiler probably.
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I want to see the press conference where the broncos introduce ryan fitzpatrick as the replacement for the greatest qb of all time
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I want to see the press conference where the broncos introduce ryan fitzpatrick as the replacement for the greatest qb of all time
It's either that or Brock Osweiler.
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Where is my t-shirt?
What the freak was I thinking when I made that bet...
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I want to see the press conference where the broncos introduce ryan fitzpatrick as the replacement for the greatest qb of all time
Broncos are a win now team. They have some monster talent all around, and Kubiak does employ a conservative offense.
I dont see how its that insane of a move really. The question is how much faith do they have in their current talent
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Best bet is to offer Fitz a two or three year deal with most of it guaranteed and some incentives. If it costs the team 10 million a year I'm ok with it as long as we're not tied to it long term and can cut without a big dead money hit
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Best bet is to offer Fitz a two or three year deal with most of it guaranteed and some incentives. If it costs the team 10 million a year I'm ok with it as long as we're not tied to it long term and can cut without a big dead money hit
As long as we dont get fucked as hard as the Bills did when they gave him a contract it wont be the end of the world.
Because it would be awful to hear about how we fell for the same thing they did
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As long as we dont get fucked as hard as the Bills did when they gave him a contract it wont be the end of the world.
Because it would be awful to hear about how we fell for the same thing they did
At his current age I doubt we'd offer him franchise QB money and I wouldn't expect Fitz to command that. He has every right to chase the money but it looks like both he and Marshall have landed at a great spot in the twilight of their careers.
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At his current age I doubt we'd offer him franchise QB money and I wouldn't expect Fitz to command that. He has every right to chase the money but it looks like both he and Marshall have landed at a great spot in the twilight of their careers.
Bills didnt offer him franchise QB money either. But they gave him a decent sized contract, and then he ended up looking like complete trash immediately afterwards.
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Bills didnt offer him franchise QB money either. But they gave him a decent sized contract, and then he ended up looking like complete trash immediately afterwards.
kill yourself
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Bills didnt offer him franchise QB money either. But they gave him a decent sized contract, and then he ended up looking like complete trash immediately afterwards.
Franchise QB money may not be the most accurate term but they gave him a 6 year 60 million dollar extension. No way the Jets offer him something like that, even taking into account current QB salaries
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kill yourself
Did it not happen ?
Im pretty sure most Jet's fans were laughing their asses off about it.
Fitz has gotten better, but his ability to stay healthy is by far the biggest concern. The guy still freaking cant slide, and think hes Chris Ivory half the time
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Fitz has gotten better, but his ability to stay healthy is by far the biggest concern. The guy still freaking cant slide, and think hes Chris Ivory half the time
Shut up, you freaking dunce cap. You are one of the dumbest people in a fanbase packed with morons.
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QB accounts for over 30 TDs and gives the team everything he's got, but he can't slide so freak him.
SHUT THE freak UP
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QB accounts for over 30 TDs and gives the team everything he's got, but he can't slide so freak him.
SHUT THE freak UP
Im talking about not wanting to guarantee too much money to an older QB somewhat prone to injuries, who does NOT have a playstyle that youd like to see in a 34+ year old QB.
Barring us giving him a crazy contract I think ill be satisfied with it, I just hope we put some stuff in there to protect us from owing him a freak ton of money in case he breaks his neck trying to truckstick Suh next year or some excrement.
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He's 33 btw.
He had one injury this year that basically cost him one game. That isn't bad.
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He had one injury this year that basically cost him one game. That isn't bad.
And he played through it for a while, then had surgery, and played through it again.
dcm is just an idiot.
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And he played through it for a while, then had surgery, and played through it again.
dcm is just an idiot.
Not in the respect that he needs to learn how to slide. He takess a few too many big shots that just aren't needed. He doesn't have to prove to the team that he's a man. The team loves and respects him, that's obvious, they also need him physically able to play. Stop taking stupid shots when he doesn't have to. Other than that he gets rid of the ball quick and isn't getting clobbered on drop backs.
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If we make the playoffs and Fitzpatrick and company pull off some excrement and win a game, I don't think he'll play for another NFL team.
And neither will Brandon Marshall because they seem to really like playing football together.
Marshall gave a glimpse into the "why" of this yesterday in his presser. The TD was a play he had brought to Fitz's attention. Marshall saw a matchup on film that he knew he could win and told Fitz about it. Fitz trusted him when BM called it out.
Marshall flat out said something to the effect of: that's what I love about the game. The chess match and when you see something on film and you know you can exploit it and you do.
Fitz clearly trusts Marshall and Decker explicitly. It's not a one-way relationship.
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On the topic of what to give him, I wouldn't complain if the Jets gave him 3 years $30M. That's overvaluing him on the open market to me, but he's not on the open market, he's a proven piece in the Gailey scheme--especially with the other pieces around him.
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Not in the respect that he needs to learn how to slide. He takess a few too many big shots that just aren't needed. He doesn't have to prove to the team that he's a man. The team loves and respects him, that's obvious, they also need him physically able to play. Stop taking stupid shots when he doesn't have to. Other than that he gets rid of the ball quick and isn't getting clobbered on drop backs.
Exactly
There was that one run earlier this season (I cant remember for the excrement of me who it was against) where Fitz dove and got creamed (going into the endzone?) and got up all wobbly with people worrying he had a concussion.
With his playstyle I have to think a few concussions could be inevitable
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Not in the respect that he needs to learn how to slide. He takess a few too many big shots that just aren't needed. He doesn't have to prove to the team that he's a man. The team loves and respects him, that's obvious, they also need him physically able to play. Stop taking stupid shots when he doesn't have to. Other than that he gets rid of the ball quick and isn't getting clobbered on drop backs.
Agree. Don't want him to change much, just take 4 yards on that scramble instead of 6 and don't get hit so hard.
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How much did we give Vinny after the 98 season? Similar situations. They both started as backups.
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Agree. Don't want him to change much, just take 4 yards on that scramble instead of 6 and don't get hit so hard.
If he slides a yard or 2 short he shouldn't take a shot at all, well if he was Brady, sure. If he gets a first then get the freak down and go to the next play.
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If he slides a yard or 2 short he shouldn't take a shot at all, well if he was Brady, sure. If he gets a first then get the freak down and go to the next play.
I don't think we will ever be able to count on him to slide. He hasn't learned to do it by now, his dive to the ground still gets him hit sometimes but usually not as bad.
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I would like to see him learn to avoid the hits enough to stay in the game, you take enough hits as a QB already, try to avoid the avoidable ones.
That said, I saw Cam Newton get the excrement knocked out of him for about 8 yards yesterday and he kept going forward. Sometimes you have to play football.
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How much did we give Vinny after the 98 season? Similar situations. They both started as backups.
That was 17 years ago and there's an even higher premium on QBs now so I don't know what we could really glean from it.
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I would like to see him learn to avoid the hits enough to stay in the game, you take enough hits as a QB already, try to avoid the avoidable ones.
That said, I saw Cam Newton get the excrement knocked out of him for about 8 yards yesterday and he kept going forward. Sometimes you have to play football.
Cam newton is 26, 6'5 245
Fitz is 33, 6'2 220
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That was 17 years ago and there's an even higher premium on QBs now so I don't know what we could really glean from it.
That they both started as backups
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Cam newton is 26, 6'5 245
Fitz is 33, 6'2 220
And? Is Newton made of stone?
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And? Is Newton made of stone?
No, but he's bigger than most of the people trying to tackle him. Fitz isn't.
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And? Is Newton made of stone?
No but he has a sweet earring.
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And? Is Newton made of stone?
He's one of the most athletic and biggest/strongest people ever at that position.
so yes, he might as well be.
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No but he has a sweet earring.
Didn't get any new material for Hanukkah, huh? 0 for 8?
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Didn't get any new material for Hanukkah, huh? 0 for 8?
I will use that line when you're in the Rex thread, Revis thread, Chad Pennington thread, Cromartie thread ........
I was 1 for 8 I got a pair of these one day:
(https://img1.etsystatic.com/117/0/5495985/il_340x270.884709873_rcs1.jpg)
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I will use that line when you're in the Rex thread, Revis thread, Chad Pennington thread, Cromartie thread ........
I was 1 for 8 I got a pair of these one day:
(https://img1.etsystatic.com/117/0/5495985/il_340x270.884709873_rcs1.jpg)
LOL
Someone must have sent the artist your picture, he captured you pretty well.
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LOL
Someone must have sent the artist your picture, he captured you pretty well.
Even got my body type correct.
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How much did we give Vinny after the 98 season? Similar situations. They both started as backups.
That was 17 years ago and there's an even higher premium on QBs now so I don't know what we could really glean from it.
Aside from them both being signed as backups and stepping in to have a great first season, it's not a level comparison.
Vinny was a much more accomplished QB even before we got him--won the Heisman at Miami, #1 overall pick, had been to the playoffs and beat Parcells' Patriots. When he finally got here and had the great season with Curtis Martin, Keyshawn and Chrebet, Parcells coaching, a lot of people felt like he finally found the right spot in his hometown and expected he could be that good.
Fitzpatrick is a different story, undrafted from Harvard, never been to the playoffs, bounced around, injured a lot. I think we should pay and keep him of course, but comparing him to what we did with Vinny so long ago isn't a true barometer in my opinion.
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undrafted from Harvard
7th round pick.
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7th round pick.
Close enough. #CrapShoot
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By the way, JE, Red Carpet Inn $99, 0.5 miles from the stadium. Did a little homework for you.
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By the way, JE, Red Carpet Inn $99, 0.5 miles from the stadium. Did a little homework for you.
I have work on Monday morning and given I'm already taking the second week in January off to go to Whistler, a vacation day isn't an option.
Attendance at the game, or otherwise, will be a decision for Friday or Saturday.
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Stop being such a hoo-ha
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I have work on Monday morning and given I'm already taking the second week in January off to go to Whistler, a vacation day isn't an option.
Attendance at the game, or otherwise, will be a decision for Friday or Saturday.
Sick day or "work from home".
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Didn't get any new material for Hanukkah, huh? 0 for 8?
Regurgitated schtick is puck's thing. Duh
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Regurgitated schtick is puck's thing. Duh
Holy excrement, Mr. Originality weighs in. Do you give lessons in originality? Where can I get those cutting edge sideburns and a black t-shirt?
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Holy excrement, Mr. Originality weighs in. Do you give lessons in originality? Where can I get those cutting edge sideburns and a black t-shirt?
From Czechoslovakia, I reckon.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtWGhNarntRg2UfTOkZVOz2mxFxrZPkTJSc21H3KNXV76pPoLo)
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From Czechoslovakia, I reckon.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtWGhNarntRg2UfTOkZVOz2mxFxrZPkTJSc21H3KNXV76pPoLo)
hahaha I forgot about that.
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Holy excrement, Mr. Originality weighs in. Do you give lessons in originality? Where can I get those cutting edge sideburns and a black t-shirt?
My style is no style
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From Czechoslovakia, I reckon.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtWGhNarntRg2UfTOkZVOz2mxFxrZPkTJSc21H3KNXV76pPoLo)
That's a handsome looking fella ain't he?
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My style is no style
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/8771de76638f6af058e65d0db12315a8/tumblr_mgcai06JlW1rwsd7jo1_500.jpg)
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(https://41.media.tumblr.com/8771de76638f6af058e65d0db12315a8/tumblr_mgcai06JlW1rwsd7jo1_500.jpg)
I'll take that as a complement.
One thing about my Otto doppelgänger is that he needs to shave the mustache. Ew
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I'll take that as a complement.
One thing about my Otto doppelgänger is that he needs to shave the mustache. Ew
it wasn't meant to be derogatory. Styles is the man.
If your Otto doppelganger shaves his stache, who will Puck look up to going forward?
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Sick day or "work from home".
It's a 1 pm game and I believe he said a 2 hour ride. Get there in the morning, park at the hotel, cab or walk it to the game. Drink all you want, chill out in the room after the game, order some food, drive back later at night.
Do I have to come up there and do this myself?
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From Czechoslovakia, I reckon.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtWGhNarntRg2UfTOkZVOz2mxFxrZPkTJSc21H3KNXV76pPoLo)
LOL holy excrement that's him.
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It's a 1 pm game and I believe he said a 2 hour ride. Get there in the morning, park at the hotel, cab or walk it to the game. Drink all you want, chill out in the room after the game, order some food, drive back later at night.
Do I have to come up there and do this myself?
I believe the answer is yes.
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I believe the answer is yes.
Sounds like a blast, I'm talking myself into it lol.
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I don't see how anyone living in the NY area wouldn't at least entertain the idea of going to that game. It's our biggest in 4 years and, knowing this franchise, we might have to wait 4 more years for another one like this (or a week, but trying to make a point here). Get your asses in Buffalo and cheer for the team for those of us who can't make the trip.
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I don't see how anyone living in the NY area wouldn't at least entertain the idea of going to that game. It's our biggest in 4 years and, knowing this franchise, we might have to wait 4 more years for another one like this (or a week, but trying to make a point here). Get your asses in Buffalo and cheer for the team for those of us who can't make the trip.
There's a pretty big difference between living in the "New York area" and living in the "Buffalo" area.
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There's a pretty big difference between living in the "New York area" and living in the "Buffalo" area.
It's a different country, but what does he know, he's Mexican living in Spain, that's the same excrement, they're all speaking Spanish anyway. Lol
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Yeah.. Buffalo is like a 7 hour drive. No thanks
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It's a different country, but what does he know, he's Mexican living in Spain, that's the same excrement, they're all speaking Spanish anyway. Lol
And I don't think he has any actual concept of what it's like to sit in the open air in -10C and snow for three hours.
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Yeah.. Buffalo is like a 7 hour drive. No thanks
From Queens, but it should be more like 6 hours for you.
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I'll only do a long drive if it's a playoff game in Cinci.
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There's a pretty big difference between living in the "New York area" and living in the "Buffalo" area.
MexJet = Marshawn Lynch?
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From Queens, but it should be more like 6 hours for you.
I factored in a one hour break to freak and kill a hooker
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I factored in a one hour break to freak and kill a hooker
that's some pretty tight work
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I'll only do a long drive if it's a playoff game in Cinci.
You're also not the one driving.
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I would do the 7 hours :P. I don't know, I like these adventures.
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I would do the 7 hours :P. I don't know, I like these adventures.
You should be at every home game then. :). That's only a 5 or 6-hour flight to New York for you.
Buffalo is like a 9-hour ride from Long Island. freak that.
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I'll take that as a complement.
One thing about my Otto doppelgänger is that he needs to shave the mustache. Ew
Uh, no, you need to grow a mustache.
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You should be at every home game then. :). That's only a 5 or 6-hour flight to New York for you.
Buffalo is like a 9-hour ride from Long Island. freak that.
Haha it's like 10 hours, and freak I'd do it if I could but paying for 8-9 plane tickets a year and 18 hotel nights would ruin me forever haha.
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Guinness really let himself go.
(http://www.beerbattered.co.uk/images/Thornbridge_Otto.jpg)
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I don't see how anyone living in the NY area wouldn't at least entertain the idea of going to that game. It's our biggest in 4 years and, knowing this franchise, we might have to wait 4 more years for another one like this (or a week, but trying to make a point here). Get your asses in Buffalo and cheer for the team for those of us who can't make the trip.
Freaking right on Mex! No loserly stories please. New Yorker's and Canada's finest should be busting a gut to be in Buffalo, this is a play off game.
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Freaking right on Mex! No loserly stories please. New Yorker's and Canada's finest should be busting a gut to be in Buffalo, this is a play off game.
Man how great was watching that Jets Jaguars game in person?
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Rich Cimini @RichCimini 26s26 seconds ago
Geno Smith called it a learning year, no regrets. Wants to be back, but says there are unknowns. Will have "10x more motivation." #nyj
go freak yourself, Geno.
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So what you're saying, Geno, is that this year you had a tenth of the motivation that you could have had?
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
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Unfortunately, I think Geno Smith will be back next year for a few reasons. He will only be making $1.5 million in 2016. I highly doubt you will be able to find a backup QB any better than Geno willing to take that little $. The Jets need every dime they can save for other positions. The only way to save more is to cut Geno and have Petty and a mid-round rookie as the backups. That is dangerous.
While no one in their right mind would have Geno as their starter, I doubt they are ready to have Petty as the main backup yet. The Jets are a team that may have to rely on a backup for a game or 2 to stay in the playoff hunt. If we were the Browns it wouldn't matter as much because the backup would just be riding out your losing season. Then again, maybe Petty is as good as Geno at this point. The only advantage Geno has is significant experience as an NFL starter. One could argue that both would go out and create a turnover festival.
The only reason I can see Geno getting cut is if they think the stink associated with him isn't worth keeping him around at any value. This may be true.
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I'll take Brett Ratliff back. I want Geno Smith gone from this roster.
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Petty will have another 8-month off-season, he should be ready to be a backup by next year. Can't keep him in the plastic forever.
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Unfortunately, I think Geno Smith will be back next year for a few reasons. He will only be making $1.5 million in 2016. I highly doubt you will be able to find a backup QB any better than Geno willing to take that little $. The Jets need every dime they can save for other positions. The only way to save more is to cut Geno and have Petty and a mid-round rookie as the backups. That is dangerous.
While no one in their right mind would have Geno as their starter, I doubt they are ready to have Petty as the main backup yet. The Jets are a team that may have to rely on a backup for a game or 2 to stay in the playoff hunt. If we were the Browns it wouldn't matter as much because the backup would just be riding out your losing season. Then again, maybe Petty is as good as Geno at this point. The only advantage Geno has is significant experience as an NFL starter. One could argue that both would go out and create a turnover festival.
The only reason I can see Geno getting cut is if they think the stink associated with him isn't worth keeping him around at any value. This may be true.
I'd rather have Geno gone just so we can wash the smell off of this team, but in the end I think he'll end up staying.
He's cheap, young, has a year in the system, and even though nobody wants to admit it, would be among the better backup Qbs in the league. Plus we invested a 2nd rounder in him so you might as well let it play out at this point. Fitzpatrick is not a lock to stay healthy all year at this point in his career, and Petty probably isn't ready to be thrown into the fire.
Plus then we'd get another year of Mack's comments "yeah, but if Geno was starting......"
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I'd rather have Geno gone just so we can wash the smell off of this team, but in the end I think he'll end up staying.
He's cheap, young, has a year in the system, and even though nobody wants to admit it, would be among the better backup Qbs in the league. Plus we invested a 2nd rounder in him so you might as well let it play out at this point. Fitzpatrick is not a lock to stay healthy all year at this point in his career, and Petty probably isn't ready to be thrown into the fire.
Plus then we'd get another year of Mack's comments "yeah, but if Geno was starting......"
That's the way I see it. I'd rather have him gone but he really isn't a bad backup. Backups are backups for a reason. You can't have a backup that is just as good as your starter, so there's going to be dropoff.
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I think Duff will make every attempt to trade Geno for a draft pick this offseason and then turn around and draft another QB in the mid to late rounds. Geno is done here and that was pretty evident when the Jets were more comfortable letting a "journeyman QB" who had a thumb ligament reattached a week earlier start over Smith.
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Unacceptable, this team needs Aaron Rodgers to back up Fitz and Tom Brady to backup Aaron Rodgers
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I think Duff will make every attempt to trade Geno for a draft pick this offseason and then turn around and draft another QB in the mid to late rounds. Geno is done here and that was pretty evident when the Jets were more comfortable letting a "journeyman QB" who had a thumb ligament reattached a week earlier start over Smith.
I can't imagine we could get anything for Geno unless Duff has a miracle up his derriere. Maybe a 7th rounder.
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geno smith is terrible, I honestly have no idea why people think he'd be a quality backup
he's not a quality anything
it's some kind of weird wishful thinking and/or an idea that this horrendous player and human being must have some kind of pathetic value to justify his draft position and all the time this organization has spent on him
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geno smith is terrible, I honestly have no idea why people think he'd be a quality backup
he's not a quality anything
it's some kind of weird wishful thinking and/or an idea that this horrendous player and human being must have some kind of pathetic value to justify his draft position and all the time this organization has spent on him
He's better than a few QBs that ended the year starting for their teams.
Nobody said Geno smith is good, perhaps you just didn't watch the NFL season this year and notice the alarming lack of QB depth on most teams.
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I can't imagine we could get anything for Geno unless Duff has a miracle up his derriere. Maybe a 7th rounder.
Geno is worth a low round pick to someone. As was said, there's little quality QB depth around the league. Yates and Gabbert started actual games for NFL teams this year. Matt Flynn has signed with like 8 teams in the last 2 years.
I'm not saying he's worth a second or even third round pick, but a late round pick is reasonable for a young QB who has started professional games and is under contract for a relatively low salary. And even if we only got a 7th, it's more than we'll get out of him next year if he stays.
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I don't care about any 6th or 7th round pick. The sooner he's off this team the better.
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Matt Flynn has signed with like 8 teams in the last 2 years.
Matt Flynn is intelligent. He's also never been TKO'd by a fellow teammate.
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I don't care about any 6th or 7th round pick. The sooner he's off this team the better.
Imagine trading him for a late round pick and then using that pick on a developmental QB that actually works out.
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Matt Flynn is intelligent. He's also never been TKO'd by a fellow teammate.
True. My apologies to Flynn.
Imagine trading him for a late round pick and then using that pick on a developmental QB that actually works out.
A developmental anything would be nice, but exactly.
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If we use the Brandon Marshall scale Geno is worth absolutely nothing in draft picks.
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What would be great is if we got a 7th rounder for Geno and drafted a punter.
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Unacceptable, this team needs Aaron Rodgers to back up Fitz and Tom Brady to backup Aaron Rodgers
This sums up this discussion pretty well
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http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/article-randylangefb/Mike-Maccagnan-on-Bryce-Pettys-Progress/c1f84b9b-8af9-410b-b5a8-06128eca2d54
I think Maccagnan's last statement is the most telling. If Petty can make that step up to be a #2 as Maccagnan expects, then Geno could easily find himself on the wrong side of the final 53 if we draft another prospect.
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Imagine the Jets having a good QB