Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 12:29:35 PM
- Pros: one of the best QBs of all-time and has the highest ceiling
- Cons: may be washed, and may be a dick
- Initial verdict: Would be funny to replace Zach with Zach's idol. Overall, a good option.
Derek Carr
- Pros: still only 32 years old next year and has been an average to above average QB for most of his career. Good leader.
- Cons: might die behind our OL, might prefer to retire to worship Jesus than leave the Raiders
- Initial verdict: not sure he becomes available, but I think he's better than Jimmy G, so I'm fine with it.
Jimmy Garoppolo
- Pros: Handsome, Italian, knows the system, competent enough
- Cons: 49ers have tried to replace him for years because he's average at best
- Initial verdict: Makes a lot of sense, even if it's not overly exciting
Jacoby Brissett
- Pros: Might be similarly as good as Carr and Garoppolo at a lesser price. Has played decently this year.
- Cons: Probably worse than Carr and Jimmy G
- Initial verdict: If they actually want to give Zach another shot, Brissett might be the caliber vet we go after.
Geno Smith
- Pros: Has played better than any of the other QBs I've mentioned this season, and not particularly close. Might actually be good.
- Cons: Likely would never come here and fanbase irrationally hates him
- Initial verdict: If he hadn't previously played for the Jets, he might be the best option, but he did, so he ain't coming.
Lamar Jackson
- Pros: He's Lamar freaking Jackson
- Cons: Would have to pay him a shitload of money and he might get hurt
- Initial verdict: Would be a home run but no way Ravens let him walk
Daniel Jones
- Pros: He has some talent. Good arm, big, mobile.
- Cons: He's worse than everyone above on this list other than maybe Brissett, and he'd cost a lot more money than Brissett
- Initial verdict: Might be better with better weapons around him but probably will cost too much money for what he is
Gardner Minshew
- Pros: He's young and has been somewhat productive in limited action. Probably wouldn't cost a ton of money either
- Cons: Probably has the highest potential of anyone on this list to fall flat on his face
- Initial verdict: Probably the most intriguing guy out of the younger veterans, but I think I'd rather go for a more proven option.
Taylor Heinicke
- Pros: He's a gamer and his teammates seem to like him since he gets the most out of his talent
- Cons: He's not that talented and probably has gotten lucky with his turnover-worthy plays not being turnovers
- Initial verdict: He's 30 this offseason, so he isn't that young anymore, and unless he's a LOT cheaper, I'd rather look at Jimmy/Carr/etc.
Baker Mayfield
- Pros: None
- Cons: He sucks
- Initial verdict: He sucks. At least with Zach, you can bet on the talent. Baker wasn't drafted because he's a super talent. Would be cheap though.
Sam Darnold
- Pros: He's the nice one
- Cons: He's not a nice player
- Initial verdict: It would be funny, but it's hard to see the scenario where he fits in. Would be cheap though.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 12:34:17 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 12:34:47 PM
Sam Darnold
Daniel Jones
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 12:36:58 PM
Jimmy is the hope.
I want no part of Rodgers. The last Green Bay legend we signed showed his dick.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 12:37:22 PM
in this order
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 12:38:37 PM
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 12:38:40 PM
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 12:39:27 PM
Jimmy Garoppolo, Derek Carr, Gardner Minshew, or Taylor Heinicke
in this order
I'm fine with this. Do we leave Lamar off because he's never leaving Baltimore?
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 12:39:31 PM
I hate that this thread exists in November.
We made it further than we usually do
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 12:39:48 PM
I'm fine with this. Do we leave Lamar off because he's never leaving Baltimore?
Lamar is not going anywhere
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 12:40:00 PM
I hate that this thread exists in November.Just trying to unclutter the Zach thread.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 23, 2022, 12:40:44 PM
Jimmy Garoppolo, Derek Carr, Gardner Minshew, or Taylor Heinicke
in this order
I actually like Heinicke, he’s a guy I could get behind if we need to go the “creative” route.
I can’t see any scenario where Rodgers is even an option.
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 12:41:43 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on November 23, 2022, 12:41:58 PM
I'm fine with this. Do we leave Lamar off because he's never leaving Baltimore?Just posted this in the Zach thread regarding Lamar.
Obviously this has to be option A.
The reality is Ravens will exclusive rights franchise him, and no matter what offer we can make, they have the opportunity to match. If they don’t we are giving up 2 first rounders. Which we would all gladly trade for a top 10 QB, but if we somehow manage to pull it off, we are looking at the combined, most expensive move in franchise history. It’s worth the risk, but it absolutely has to work out. It also has to require the ravens allowing him to leave.
Option B is Garrapollo IMO. C is Carr. If all of that fails, then we need to get creative.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 12:43:49 PM
It's as retarded as the people who think Zach Wilson will still be good
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 12:44:18 PM
I was wishing for Geno's replacement since the moment we drafted him but where was this energy when he got benched for Vick in 2014?
IK absorbed all of that energy
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 12:47:05 PM
I hate that this thread exists in November.
beat me to it
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 12:47:18 PM
Bridgwater
Keenum
Gabbert
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 12:48:00 PM
Cooper RushOkay calm down with some of these.
Bridgwater
Keenum
Gabbert
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 12:49:11 PM
Okay calm down with some of these.
I think that was bottom of the barrel
Albeit Rush could at least be appealing
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
2022 JaMarcus Russell
2012 Ryan Leaf
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 12:49:32 PM
(I think Woody pushes for Rodgers)
It'd be nice if he remembered that him meddling is a bad idea.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 12:50:14 PM
It'd be nice if he remembered that him meddling is a bad idea.Rodgers makes a lot of sense.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 12:53:19 PM
Rodgers makes a lot of sense.
YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE HOLE
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 12:56:33 PM
Marquel Blackwell
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 23, 2022, 12:58:15 PM
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 01:00:32 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 01:01:15 PM
Christian Hackenberg is finally ready.
the league is not ready though
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 23, 2022, 01:01:55 PM
the league is not ready though
They shut down the AAF permanently after he took over there
Post by: bojanglesman on November 23, 2022, 01:04:29 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 01:06:19 PM
Obviously it makes far less sense for them to give up on Mac, but I suppose it also depends on what kind of contract Jimmy has and what kind of love obsession Bill has
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 01:09:04 PM
It would be interesting to know if the Patriots would have any interest whatsoever in pursuing Jimmy G, especially if we didGood point, Mac Jones will also be available for us to pursue since he got benched this year, thus ending his tenure there.
Obviously it makes far less sense for them to give up on Mac, but I suppose it also depends on what kind of contract Jimmy has and what kind of love obsession Bill has
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 01:11:57 PM
Good point, Mac Jones will also be available for us to pursue since he got benched this year, thus ending his tenure there.
Mac Jones & Zach Wilson will be competing for the Panther's starting job.
Post by: klaximilian on November 23, 2022, 01:34:28 PM
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 01:36:28 PM
This thread is comical - must as well call this place TGG 2.0Ok but hear me out - Garrett "Peen Train" Grayson is available
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 01:37:00 PM
This thread is comical - must as well call this place TGG 2.0
Do you think we have our 2023 QB on our current roster?
Post by: klaximilian on November 23, 2022, 01:37:04 PM
Jets fans are the worst.
As you were.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 01:37:50 PM
So in the OP, we're calling the best generational QB of the last 10-12 years "a dick" as his flaw, then claiming Carr's desire to retire to worship Jesus as one as well (LOL at that), all the while following it up with saying that Jets fans haven an irrational hatred for Geno sums up both the lack of self awareness and the irrational nature of Jets fans all in one.It wasn't meant to be entirely serious.
Jets fans are the worst.
As you were.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 01:39:38 PM
Ok but hear me out - Garrett "Peen Train" Grayson is available
(https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_12_desktop/saints/lsdosajkpqsdofns9slu)
What if I told you that some fields don't have dreams?
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 01:40:30 PM
It wasn't meant to be entirely serious.For a moment I thought I had backup for saying it's still too early to have this discussion, but it was actually because you were too disrespectful to the other QBs.
Post by: Jumbo on November 23, 2022, 01:41:34 PM
For a moment I thought I had backup for saying it's still too early to have this discussion, but it was actually because you were too disrespectful to the other QBs.
How can Baker suck and have no talent if he's in every other commercial?
Post by: klaximilian on November 23, 2022, 01:42:17 PM
It wasn't meant to be entirely serious.
Based on how infatuated this board is with perceived character flaws over performance, this backpedal could not be more full of excrement.
And that's an indictment on the collective messageboard (and fan base), not you.
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 01:44:36 PM
How can Baker suck and have no talent if he's in every other commercial?Pro: we might get a great deal on our home and auto insurance
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 01:51:25 PM
Pro: rightful king of Svalbard, once knocked off an opponent's jaw
Con: no opposable thumbs
Verdict: will likely be unavailable as he's currently leading the panserbjørn through times of massive upheaval
Post by: steves850 on November 23, 2022, 01:52:49 PM
Based on how infatuated this board is with perceived character flaws over performance, this backpedal could not be more full of excrement.
And that's an indictment on the collective messageboard (and fan base), not you.
My rebuttal: You're a queynte :) . Lighten up, and try to enjoy the train.
Rodgers is an absolute dick. I don't want him because I'd rather get someone younger, I don't give a excrement if he's a dick in real life.
Carr being a Christian isn't a criticism, he stated he would rather retire and become a minister rather than play for another team.
Post by: MBGreen on November 23, 2022, 01:56:16 PM
Iorek Byrnison
Pro: rightful king of Svalbard, once knocked off an opponent's jaw
Con: no opposable thumbs
Verdict: will likely be unavailable as he's currently leading the panserbjørn through times of massive upheaval
skol!
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 01:57:24 PM
How can Baker suck and have no talent if he's in every other commercial?It's a shame he can't play QB becaue he's one of the better QB commercial actors we've ever had.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 02:12:27 PM
Lamar, Carr, Garoppolo, Brissett, Heinickie, Minshew
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 02:16:18 PM
Ranked in order of pereference and likelihood it could actually happen:1. Lamar
Lamar, Carr, Garoppolo, Brissett, Heinickie, Minshew
2. Rodgers
3. Carr
4. Garoppolo
5. Brissett
6. DJones
7. Minshew
8. Heinicke
(salaries could change things)
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 02:35:40 PM
Ranked in order of pereference and likelihood it could actually happen:You forgot Tahj Boyd.
Lamar, Carr, Garoppolo, Brissett, Heinickie, Minshew
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 23, 2022, 02:41:34 PM
Based on how infatuated this board is with perceived character flaws over performance, this backpedal could not be more full of excrement.
And that's an indictment on the collective messageboard (and fan base), not you.
lol wtf is this garbage
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 03:03:22 PM
lol wtf is this garbage
don’t talk excrement about persecuted QBs like Aaron Rodgers
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 03:04:40 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 23, 2022, 03:17:51 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 03:59:55 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221123/224f6623ef56d38d2c93f53562e889f0.jpg)
freaking do it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 04:01:03 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 04:09:12 PM
You forgot Tahj Boyd.
When I stop counting how many possible spots there are for preference, I'll add him.
Post by: Johnny English on November 23, 2022, 08:24:27 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 23, 2022, 08:25:40 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 23, 2022, 08:27:05 PM
Matt StaffordOk I hate this game now
Post by: Badger on November 23, 2022, 08:28:03 PM
Matt StaffordShould be available at a decent price if the Rams decide their window has closed.
He's now the leading candidate.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 08:35:07 PM
Post by: Coach K on November 23, 2022, 09:10:05 PM
don’t talk excrement about persecuted QBs like Aaron RodgersHahaha
Post by: Coach K on November 23, 2022, 09:10:29 PM
Ok I hate this game nowLolol this thread is becoming hilarious
Post by: Coach K on November 23, 2022, 09:10:59 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:13:23 PM
Rodgers for me, if only because of how much it will annoy Heismanberg. Looking forward to him abandoning the Jets the way he insisted he was definitely abandoning the Knicks at least five times in the last decade.
We've watched "aging Packers QB" already and that movie sucked harder than Hereditary.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:14:37 PM
We've watched "aging Packers QB" already and that movie sucked harder than Hereditary.Aging Packers QB would have worked perfectly had he stayed healthy and we weren't married to his streak.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:17:58 PM
Aging Packers QB would have worked perfectly had he stayed healthy and we weren't married to his streak.
Yeah, everything in the world would have worked if it didn't go wrong.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:19:01 PM
Yeah, everything in the world would have worked if it didn't go wrong.We were literally the best team in the NFL, then our QB got hurt.
I would settle for being the best team in the NFL if our QB stays healthy. And if you add Aaron Rodgers to this current team, we're probably a top-8 team minimum.
Rodgers has the highest upside out of any potential realistic option for the next couple years. If the goal is to get a veteran stopgap, Rodgers makes a ton of sense.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:20:45 PM
We were literally the best team in the NFL, then our QB got hurt.
I would settle for being the best team in the NFL if our QB stays healthy.
I. Don't. Care. About. If.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:27:55 PM
I. Don't. Care. About. If.So we should pass up probably the best QB on the market because a QB from the same team got hurt 14 years ago?
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 10:45:32 PM
So we should pass up probably the best QB on the market because a QB from the same team got hurt 14 years ago?
If you're only reason for signing him is playing "What if...?" with Favre, then yes.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 10:51:59 PM
If you're only reason for signing him is playing "What if...?" with Favre, then yes.But it seemed based on your original post that that's why you don't want Rodgers. Because Favre ended poorly.
Favre is irrelevant. If the goal is to get the best QB available for next season, Rodgers is probably the best realistic option. Now will it make sense with draft picks and salary and other things? I don't know. But if we're going after a guy like Jimmy G because he can be a competent short-term option, why not swing bigger?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 10:57:30 PM
But it seemed based on your original post that that's why you don't want Rodgers. Because Favre ended poorly.
Favre is irrelevant. If the goal is to get the best QB available for next season, Rodgers is probably the best realistic option. Now will it make sense with draft picks and salary and other things? I don't know. But if we're going after a guy like Jimmy G because he can be a competent short-term option, why not swing bigger?
Rodgers unquestionably has the highest probability of the highest upside. He probably also has the highest probability of blowing up in our faces of any of the high end guys. It's also hard to read into his bizzare fucked up marriage with green Bay, it was only a few months ago be was saying he would retire in green bay.
Regardless he's a guy to get excited about.
Jimmy G certainly marks the top of the list when it comes to plausibility though
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 23, 2022, 11:00:09 PM
But it seemed based on your original post that that's why you don't want Rodgers. Because Favre ended poorly.
Favre is irrelevant. If the goal is to get the best QB available for next season, Rodgers is probably the best realistic option. Now will it make sense with draft picks and salary and other things? I don't know. But if we're going after a guy like Jimmy G because he can be a competent short-term option, why not swing bigger?
The reason I don't like him is that he is a fading star who is s going to command more money than he's worth.
If we sign him and everything lines up we might get a title but I think the chances are low and we could probably do a better job of developing the franchise by going with someone who would require less money with less ego and give us more resources (cash) to build the team while we sit in a waiting pattern to sure up some key positions.
The WR corps and OLine are not set and we're going to need money to improve that situation, money that Rodgers will eat disproportionately. He's in the twilight of his career and he's not the one answer we need.
Also freak him.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 11:05:42 PM
Apparently there's a ridiculously high percentage of guarantees in his contract and he's literally impossible to cut. Green Bay would take a 100 million dollar cap hit in 23 if they cut him.
It seems like pick compensation for him would be low, but everything about it would depend on his complete albatross of a contract and how much of it Green Bay was willing to eat.
You'd think they have no choice but to trade Rodgers or trade Love
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 23, 2022, 11:13:08 PM
Hopefully an article highlighting the ramifications of a Rodgers trade would come outLove might be a sunk cost at this point.
Apparently there's a ridiculously high percentage of guarantees in his contract and he's literally impossible to cut. Green Bay would take a 100 million dollar cap hit in 23 if they cut him.
It seems like pick compensation for him would be low, but everything about it would depend on his complete albatross of a contract and how much of it Green Bay was willing to eat.
You'd think they have no choice but to trade Rodgers or trade Love
I don't know enough about the Rodgers salary situation. And I know he would cut into money we could spend elsewhere. But if we improve QB, everything else looks better.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 23, 2022, 11:19:15 PM
Love might be a sunk cost at this point.
I don't know enough about the Rodgers salary situation. And I know he would cut into money we could spend elsewhere. But if we improve QB, everything else looks better.
I'm not suggesting they should extend love or something (the sunken cost thing)
I'm saying Love is on the final year of his rookie deal in a weak QB class, for a guy drafted early that never really got playing time. He's got legitimate value. Either they make him the starter and see if he's worth extending, or they trade him elsewhere where he could.
The guy might suck, I have no freaking clue, but I see him easily getting real value back in a trade, even if some of it is conditional.
If the Packers are committed to Rodgers for whatever reason, I'd think we would be one of the most logical trade spots for Love.
I can't imagine the Packers keeping Love and Rodgers
And I can't imagine people on here being more upset trading a 4th for Love that could increase if we resign him than if we were to go with the Baker Mayfield tier of free agents.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 24, 2022, 04:45:14 AM
The reason I don't like him is that he is a fading star who is s going to command more money than he's worth.
If we sign him and everything lines up we might get a title but I think the chances are low and we could probably do a better job of developing the franchise by going with someone who would require less money with less ego and give us more resources (cash) to build the team while we sit in a waiting pattern to sure up some key positions.
The WR corps and OLine are not set and we're going to need money to improve that situation, money that Rodgers will eat disproportionately. He's in the twilight of his career and he's not the one answer we need.
Also freak him.
I agree with this. You can’t count on a “multi-year” window with Rodgers. It’s literally one year that matters. It was the same for Favre back in the day. Rodgers MIGHT have a second or even a third year in him of top play. But I’d say it’s unlikely. He’s already 38 years old, and honestly he hasn’t been good this year. Yes circumstances are not great for his offense in Green Bay right now, but how much better off is our offense? We have a potentially elite running game if Hall returns to form from his ACL which is no guarantee, we have one reliable WR in Garrett Wilson, two overpaid TEs (based on production) and an OL with more 2023 questions than answers.
We need money to fix those issues. Rodgers will cost all the money we need to fix them. And he will cost us (likely) high draft capital so we can’t even hope for another stroke of luck like in the 2022 draft where everything seemingly falls our way and basically every guy we draft can contribute early at a high level.
IF our OL was set and IF we had a healthy Davis, and IF we had a producing Elijah Moore I’d be more open to taking the swing. But as it stands, this team isn’t ready to go ALL-IN and push for a title in 2023 with Rodgers. Even assuming we get the play from Rodgers 3 years ago, I’m. It sure we are good enough to win a stacked AFC. Hell are we even certain we could win our own division with the damn Bills involved?
TLDR; we aren’t good enough yet for an all-in move for one season like Rodgers would be. If that’s what we did, we would all be excited as hell, just like with Favre. But ultimately it’s a big gamble that I don’t think would end up paying off for us, at least not with a ring.
Post by: CatoTheElder on November 24, 2022, 08:33:20 AM
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2022, 09:27:44 AM
I say we call Vinny up off the couch . He could get more than 2 yardsQuincy Carter is available.
Post by: Jumbo on November 24, 2022, 09:46:04 AM
TLDR; we aren’t good enough yet for an all-in move for one season like Rodgers would be.
Couldn't disagree with this more. We're 6-4 with bottom three in the league QB play. Even if Rodgers tanks from the terrible level he's been at with worse weapons than in Green Bay, even if he's Denver SB Peyton Manning, he raises the level of this team even more.
Post by: MBGreen on November 24, 2022, 09:53:06 AM
Couldn't disagree with this more. We're 6-4 with bottom three in the league QB play. Even if Rodgers tanks from the terrible level he's been at with worse weapons than in Green Bay, even if he's Denver SB Peyton Manning, he raises the level of this team even more.
Rodgers isn't coming here or anywhere. He already said he's retiring a Packer after this season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 24, 2022, 11:23:38 AM
Couldn't disagree with this more. We're 6-4 with bottom three in the league QB play. Even if Rodgers tanks from the terrible level he's been at with worse weapons than in Green Bay, even if he's Denver SB Peyton Manning, he raises the level of this team even more.This. This team is a SB contender with Jimmy G, much less Rodgers.
If he doesn't want to come or the salary is untenable or he isnt available, fine. But this is exactly the kind of team that can go all in on a short-term QB.
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 24, 2022, 04:22:07 PM
This. This team is a SB contender with Jimmy G, much less Rodgers.
If he doesn't want to come or the salary is untenable or he isnt available, fine. But this is exactly the kind of team that can go all in on a short-term QB.
apparently rodgers has been playing with a broken thumb since week 5. i don't know if it's just a cop out by him though, but it could explain some of his subpar play.
for what it's worth i thought he played decently and still made some 'rodgers-type passes/plays' when he played against us, but our defense/special teams just played very well, and breece was breece. was probably still an off-day for him but i'd take that stat line with this defense anytime, especially if the hand is healthy next year.
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 24, 2022, 04:24:18 PM
So in the OP, we're calling the best generational QB of the last 10-12 years "a dick" as his flaw, then claiming Carr's desire to retire to worship Jesus as one as well (LOL at that), all the while following it up with saying that Jets fans haven an irrational hatred for Geno sums up both the lack of self awareness and the irrational nature of Jets fans all in one.
Jets fans are the worst.
As you were.
cmon man. some of the posts in here have been serious as the topic is serious, and we likely need to fill QB this upcoming offseason.
but some of the 'joke' aspects of his initial posts were pretty obvious. smalls wrote 'handsome and italian' as pros for jimmy garropolo FFS. i cackled laughing when i read that
Post by: dcm1602 on November 27, 2022, 02:20:29 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on November 27, 2022, 02:57:20 PM
What's White got to do to convince you he's the guy over anyone on this list?
Get us to the playoffs and play well. No excrement the bed games.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 27, 2022, 03:02:27 PM
What's White got to do to convince you he's the guy over anyone on this list?He will have his chance. Win and play well and he will have a chance.
Post by: dcm1602 on November 27, 2022, 03:14:30 PM
Get us to the playoffs and play well. No excrement the bed games.
He will have his chance. Win and play well and he will have a chance.
Obviously he's not going to play like this all season, and if he does it's a no brainer.
But assuming he puts up normal mortal numbers, the Jets squeak in with a 7 or 8 seed, then get bounced in the wildcard
Do you sign White over the better names on this list?
Which predominantly means over Jimmy G, or potentially getting Aaron Rodgers under the most favorable of terms
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 27, 2022, 03:15:49 PM
Obviously he's not going to play like this all season, and if he does it's a no brainer.If White looks like a viable starter, and the Jets truly believe in Zach, maybe they can have a competition. But those are some big ifs
But assuming he puts up normal mortal numbers, the Jets squeak in with a 7 or 8 seed, then get bounced in the wildcard
Do you sign White over the better names on this list?
Post by: dcm1602 on November 27, 2022, 03:18:38 PM
If White looks like a viable starter, and the Jets truly believe in Zach, maybe they can have a competition. But those are some big ifs
I don't think this team should do anything forward depending on Zach. Obviously whatever he brings to the table is a positive, just don't expect it.
And let's say White does look like a viable starter. Can he convince anyone that he is a better option over a much more proven vet like Jimmy G?
Assuming White plays well, maybe something slightly better than the numbers someone like Cooper Rush put up.
I guess I'm saying is can White realistically make himself look like a better option to you guys than Jimmy G? (assuming Jimmy G doesn't go insane and want 40 million a year or anything ridiculous)
Post by: Coach K on November 27, 2022, 04:32:54 PM
Post by: Badger on November 27, 2022, 05:32:11 PM
If Mike white is available we should pick him upWe're days away from dcm furiously debating if we can fit Mike White into our 2023 cap.
Post by: Coach K on November 27, 2022, 05:42:44 PM
We're days away from dcm furiously debating if we can fit Mike White into our 2023 cap.Lololol
Post by: dcm1602 on November 27, 2022, 05:44:02 PM
We're days away from dcm furiously debating if we can fit Mike White into our 2023 cap.
There's no cost too great to keep Wilson off the field
Post by: Miamipuck on November 27, 2022, 10:25:45 PM
There's no cost too great to keep Wilson off the field
Yes this is true.
Post by: steves850 on December 05, 2022, 10:41:41 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 05, 2022, 10:57:43 AM
Baker is available….
You shut up, sir.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 02:13:14 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2022, 02:20:02 PM
What would it take for either side to make a Zach Wilson for Jordan Love trade work out?
Why would we want that? Love is a completely unproven who hasn’t shown anything in his time on the field (which is little) who is approaching his 5th year option. We’d basically put ourselves back in the space we were when we traded away Sam. Except this time with less time and knowledge about who Love is.
I’d suspect he isn’t much different from Wilson based on what we’ve seen
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 02:27:12 PM
Under that scenario Green Bay will need a young heir apparent, and Zach will probably need/want a new start, with him also being a decent choice to end up in Green Bay as well.
Odds are it probably wouldn't be 1:1 trade, but I have no idea how to access the value of either
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 02:47:05 PM
If Green Bay rolls with Rodgers, then Love surely will get shopped, with the Jets as one of the most likely destination.
Under that scenario Green Bay will need a young heir apparent, and Zach will probably need/want a new start, with him also being a decent choice to end up in Green Bay as well.
Odds are it probably wouldn't be 1:1 trade, but I have no idea how to access the value of either
lmao How is your Madden franchise going?
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2022, 02:48:52 PM
lmao How is your Madden franchise going?Can we sign BEEFTANK (https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/9/5/4691010/breaking-madden-clarence-beeftank-jaguars) in 2023?
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 02:49:53 PM
lmao How is your Madden franchise going?
Is the Jets trading for Love unrealistic?
The answer is no
If the Jets acquire a new QB that they commit to as a starter and feel like keeping Wilson is a problem, does them trading him make sense? Yes
If the Packers get rid of Love do they now need a young QB to groom and learn behind Rodgers , and does Wilson make some permutation of sense? Yes
Do I think it's the most likely scenario, of course not.
But nothing in there is particularly far fetched
All these components are individually realistic, I don't see why then all happening together would suddenly become unrealistic
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 20, 2022, 02:51:03 PM
If Green Bay rolls with Rodgers, then Love surely will get shopped, with the Jets as one of the most likely destination.The only way this makes any sense is if the Jets are just done with Zach. Otherwise, we're just swapping one question mark for another, except our question mark is an extra year from free agency.
Under that scenario Green Bay will need a young heir apparent, and Zach will probably need/want a new start, with him also being a decent choice to end up in Green Bay as well.
Odds are it probably wouldn't be 1:1 trade, but I have no idea how to access the value of either
Post by: steves850 on December 20, 2022, 02:54:03 PM
Is the Jets trading for Love unrealistic?
The answer is no
If the Jets acquire a new QB that they commit to as a starter and feel like keeping Wilson is a problem, does them trading him make sense? Yes
If the Packers get rid of Love do they now need a QB, and does Wilson make some permutation of sense? Yes
Do I think it's the most likely scenario, of course not.
But nothing in there is particularly far fetched
All these components are individually realistic, I don't see why then all happening together would suddenly become unrealistic
Do I ask myself leading questions? Yes.
Do I provide the answer I want to assist in my argument? Yes.
Does my imaginary scenario exist in reality? No.
I don't see the jets trading Wilson this off-season. I take the franchise at face value in that the plan is to get him straight. They never wanted to put him back in the game this season but injury forced em. The plan is to sit him and coach him out of his bad habits.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2022, 02:54:20 PM
Can we sign BEEFTANK (https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/9/5/4691010/breaking-madden-clarence-beeftank-jaguars) in 2023?
That is awesome. However:
Quote
I assigned BEEFTANK (all caps, please) the following attributes.
Highest possible ratings: Strength, Speed, Acceleration, Carrying, Throwing power, Trucking, Stiff arm, Injury, Stamina, Toughness.
Lowest possible ratings: Agility, Awareness, Elusiveness, Vision, Spin move, Juke move, Throw accuracy.
He could probably have saved himself all the trouble and just used Tim Tebow, because it's basically the same player.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 02:54:48 PM
The only way this makes any sense is if the Jets are just done with Zach. Otherwise, we're just swapping one question mark for another, except our question mark is an extra year from free agency.
I don't disagree that Love is a question mark and not a proven commodity.
But I think the end of the Zach error is something that will be closely looked at this offseason.
Otherwise this entire thread and many of the things in it don't make a whole lot of sense
The Jimmy G injury does make it more viable that we bring him in yet still keep Zach
Post by: Coach K on December 20, 2022, 06:10:11 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2022, 06:12:09 PM
Did we suggest Jordan Love for Wilson
No WE didn’t. DCM did
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2022, 06:13:15 PM
No WE didn’t. DCM didGuilty by association.
Post by: Coach K on December 20, 2022, 06:31:12 PM
Guilty by association.I want everyone in my office first thing tomorrow
Post by: Libero_2 on December 20, 2022, 06:43:12 PM
I want everyone in my office first thing tomorrow
If I could walk, I’d be there, if only to hear your master plan on how to fix the excrement we are in the middle of
Post by: dcm1602 on December 20, 2022, 06:45:08 PM
The Green Bay and San Francisco ones will just happen to be higher on the list because of the affiliations
Post by: reuben on December 20, 2022, 09:05:42 PM
Guilty by association.
All us jetoffenders are going to have to answer for dcm when the revolution comes.
Post by: delavan on December 21, 2022, 07:01:57 AM
Is the Jets trading for Love unrealistic?awesome….or, how ‘bout zach to greenbay for their question mark love then get the the niners to bite on love for lance or better yet white for purdy and a 4th
The answer is no
If the Jets acquire a new QB that they commit to as a starter and feel like keeping Wilson is a problem, does them trading him make sense? Yes
If the Packers get rid of Love do they now need a young QB to groom and learn behind Rodgers , and does Wilson make some permutation of sense? Yes
Do I think it's the most likely scenario, of course not.
But nothing in there is particularly far fetched
All these components are individually realistic, I don't see why then all happening together would suddenly become unrealistic
just spitballing mind you, but none of it’s unrealistic individuality or collectively by and large all things considered
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 21, 2022, 09:29:27 AM
Guilty by association.
They point the finger at me again.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 22, 2022, 09:54:43 PM
Not sure how you put any faith in Zach.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 23, 2022, 05:31:20 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 06:21:07 AM
Are we actually talking about TRADING for Jordan Love? Is this like, a real discussion?Lol...just dcm being dcm
Post by: ScotlandJet on December 23, 2022, 06:27:29 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 23, 2022, 07:31:16 AM
Zach is bust. He'll probably remain on the team as his salary is 9M and his cap hit if cut is 20M, unless we managed to trade him for peanuts and then our hit would be 5M, but who's gonna take him, really?
I'd loathe to part ways with draft picks at the moment. If anything, if our FO has shown us something is that they know how to draft (except QB). I'd keep our assets. At this rate, we'll draft around 12th. If we get an OL and get a bit luckier with injuries, we should be good protecting the QB.
Who do I want? In a whim, Jimmy G. Proven on this system and wouldn't cost us draft capital. Yeah, he'd cost 30M, and he's injury prone but, seriously, who's better than him given our current situation. Other, less costly, options are Geno, Daniel Jones, Teddy B or Brisett. Of those, Geno is the best hands down but I wonder how much he'd cost in the market, and how long the contract would be. 25M maybe? More?
In any case, we'd all agree we should resign Mike White. I guess it'd cost us around 6M. But that represents another problem. With White and Zach, we'd already be committing 14M to the QB position. If we get a good veteran, it'd end up being 45-50M. That's Mahomes rate. It doesn't make sense.
So, we're pretty much fucked. We'd either ride with White and hope he's actually good with a lower tier vet like Teddy B, or we go all in for Jimmy G, let White go and pray for the best.
Or... we draft another QB in the second round, but seriously, should we ever draft QBs anymore?
EDIT: I didn't even consider Lamar seriously. No way he's leaving Baltimore for real.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 08:35:23 AM
What would Derek Carr cost us? I know its a longshot but what would we need to send to Vegas?
I think someone mentioned that he said he’d retire if he gets cut or traded from the Raiders.
Post by: steves850 on December 23, 2022, 08:39:37 AM
This is my take on the QB situation.I appreciate the write up but holy excrement is this depressing. I think you roll the dice on a vet, $50 million for three question mark is insane but it’s likely a one year situation. We drop Wilson after next year and either White is the man of the established back up (most likely)
Zach is bust. He'll probably remain on the team as his salary is 9M and his cap hit if cut is 20M, unless we managed to trade him for peanuts and then our hit would be 5M, but who's gonna take him, really?
I'd loathe to part ways with draft picks at the moment. If anything, if our FO has shown us something is that they know how to draft (except QB). I'd keep our assets. At this rate, we'll draft around 12th. If we get an OL and get a bit luckier with injuries, we should be good protecting the QB.
Who do I want? In a whim, Jimmy G. Proven on this system and wouldn't cost us draft capital. Yeah, he'd cost 30M, and he's injury prone but, seriously, who's better than him given our current situation. Other, less costly, options are Geno, Daniel Jones, Teddy B or Brisett. Of those, Geno is the best hands down but I wonder how much he'd cost in the market, and how long the contract would be. 25M maybe? More?
In any case, we'd all agree we should resign Mike White. I guess it'd cost us around 6M. But that represents another problem. With White and Zach, we'd already be committing 14M to the QB position. If we get a good veteran, it'd end up being 45-50M. That's Mahomes rate. It doesn't make sense.
So, we're pretty much fucked. We'd either ride with White and hope he's actually good with a lower tier vet like Teddy B, or we go all in for Jimmy G, let White go and pray for the best.
Or... we draft another QB in the second round, but seriously, should we ever draft QBs anymore?
EDIT: I didn't even consider Lamar seriously. No way he's leaving Baltimore for real.
Post by: casman02 on December 23, 2022, 08:42:22 AM
This is my take on the QB situation.
Zach is bust. He'll probably remain on the team as his salary is 9M and his cap hit if cut is 20M, unless we managed to trade him for peanuts and then our hit would be 5M, but who's gonna take him, really?
I'd loathe to part ways with draft picks at the moment. If anything, if our FO has shown us something is that they know how to draft (except QB). I'd keep our assets. At this rate, we'll draft around 12th. If we get an OL and get a bit luckier with injuries, we should be good protecting the QB.
Who do I want? In a whim, Jimmy G. Proven on this system and wouldn't cost us draft capital. Yeah, he'd cost 30M, and he's injury prone but, seriously, who's better than him given our current situation. Other, less costly, options are Geno, Daniel Jones, Teddy B or Brisett. Of those, Geno is the best hands down but I wonder how much he'd cost in the market, and how long the contract would be. 25M maybe? More?
In any case, we'd all agree we should resign Mike White. I guess it'd cost us around 6M. But that represents another problem. With White and Zach, we'd already be committing 14M to the QB position. If we get a good veteran, it'd end up being 45-50M. That's Mahomes rate. It doesn't make sense.
So, we're pretty much fucked. We'd either ride with White and hope he's actually good with a lower tier vet like Teddy B, or we go all in for Jimmy G, let White go and pray for the best.
Or... we draft another QB in the second round, but seriously, should we ever draft QBs anymore?
EDIT: I didn't even consider Lamar seriously. No way he's leaving Baltimore for real.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/299/change1.jpg)
Post by: Johnny English on December 23, 2022, 08:45:37 AM
Post by: steves850 on December 23, 2022, 08:48:11 AM
I realise the reaction it will provoke on here, but we can't ignore the fact that Sam Darnold is a free agent this year and looking very solid now he isn't being coached by losers and lunatics. Of course, whether he'd want to come back to this basketcase of a team is a different matter, but if he was open to it he'd fit the bill of being a cost effective placeholder with significant upside.Listen son, I know the divorce was hard on you but mom and dad are never getting back together.
It is your fault though.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 08:49:07 AM
I realise the reaction it will provoke on here, but we can't ignore the fact that Sam Darnold is a free agent this year and looking very solid now he isn't being coached by losers and lunatics. Of course, whether he'd want to come back to this basketcase of a team is a different matter, but if he was open to it he'd fit the bill of being a cost effective placeholder with significant upside.Man I'm not sure if you've seen him play or looked at his numbers, but very solid is a major overstatement...
If we want to go after an ex-Jets QB, Geno is the guy but I doubt it would ever happen.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 23, 2022, 08:54:59 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 23, 2022, 09:09:41 AM
I realise the reaction it will provoke on here, but we can't ignore the fact that Sam Darnold is a free agent this year and looking very solid now he isn't being coached by losers and lunatics. Of course, whether he'd want to come back to this basketcase of a team is a different matter, but if he was open to it he'd fit the bill of being a cost effective placeholder with significant upside.
He has been pretty bad in Carolina post Rhule
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 09:11:57 AM
He has been pretty bad in Carolina post RhuleYeah I'd rather re sign white and give him the keys unless it's a clear step up
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 23, 2022, 09:23:24 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 23, 2022, 09:29:37 AM
daniel jones as a stopgap i guess is a possibility?
Why would the Giants let him walk?
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:37:46 AM
daniel jones as a stopgap i guess is a possibility?Any QB with a pulse is a possibility
Post by: steves850 on December 23, 2022, 09:38:49 AM
Any QB with a pulse is a possibilityI think Zach Wilson has a pulse and he’s only 23! Drafted high, too. Helluva pedigree.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:39:35 AM
I think Zach Wilson has a pulse and he’s only 23! Drafted high, too. Helluva pedigree.Is he a QB?
Post by: steves850 on December 23, 2022, 09:40:39 AM
Is he a QB?Verdict is still out. Doesn’t really resemble one though. Looks more like a Disney movie villain.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 09:46:00 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 09:49:26 AM
Muke White is one of the few departing FAs I want back.Depends what we do at QB. If we truly make a big splash somewhere at QB, White may not b3 necessary.
We dont want to give him a Berrios deal just because we like him
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 10:00:43 AM
Depends what we do at QB. If we truly make a big splash somewhere at QB, White may not b3 necessary.
We dont want to give him a Berrios deal just because we like him
Yes it can change. But right now that's where I'm at.
Post by: Johnny English on December 23, 2022, 10:21:08 AM
He has been pretty bad in Carolina post Rhule
Since Rhule left he has had three starts in which he has thrown 3 TDs and rushed for 1, and had 0 INTs with passer ratings of 103.8, 85.4 and 108.1. That's nothing special but it's a level of QB play above anything our current roster has given us, and it's with a worse roster than ours. It's a very small sample size but Sam is not the broken mess we turned him into.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 11:03:49 AM
Since Rhule left he has had three starts in which he has thrown 3 TDs and rushed for 1, and had 0 INTs with passer ratings of 103.8, 85.4 and 108.1. That's nothing special but it's a level of QB play above anything our current roster has given us, and it's with a worse roster than ours. It's a very small sample size but Sam is not the broken mess we turned him into.He is averaging 22 attempts per game. They are scared of him throwing the ball.
Post by: dcm1602 on December 23, 2022, 11:11:28 AM
Since Rhule left he has had three starts in which he has thrown 3 TDs and rushed for 1, and had 0 INTs with passer ratings of 103.8, 85.4 and 108.1. That's nothing special but it's a level of QB play above anything our current roster has given us, and it's with a worse roster than ours. It's a very small sample size but Sam is not the broken mess we turned him into.
I was 100% on the keep Sam freak Zach Wilson bandwagon
But I'm past Sam
If White is not retainable and Wilson is traded, I'd be completely okay with Sam as our 2nd strung QB. Though again that's not gonna happen either
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 11:15:32 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 23, 2022, 11:19:26 AM
Jimmy G is top of the list. Daniel Jones, Geno and Lamar aren't going anywhere. Anyone else is a trade or turds.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 23, 2022, 12:19:27 PM
It's White or a veteran. We aren't bringing back Sam and Zach isn't an option.
Jimmy G is top of the list. Daniel Jones, Geno and Lamar aren't going anywhere. Anyone else is a trade or turds.
I think it’s a serious argument to be had how big an upgrade Jimmy G would be over White. Whites performances this year are roughly what we’d have hoped for from Jimmy G. Add in the injury history of Jimmy G and is it worth paying him $20 million more than White? If there was a straight up, unbiased competition, would Jimmy G even win over White? If he did, I’d suspect it was quite close.
Let’s face it, our QB options next year are all bad, and nothing is going to set us up for long term success. We need to find an option that allows us to compete. In my eyes, the QB isn’t going to be the reason we win games. We just need to make sure it isn’t the reason we lose them next year. To me White has shown that ability, and will be way cheaper than a guy like Jimmy G. The only reason the money matters to me is because we need so many upgrades elsewhere if the QB won’t hide those deficiencies for us. So let’s use the money to upgrade the rest of our team
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 01:55:34 PM
I think it’s a serious argument to be had how big an upgrade Jimmy G would be over White. Whites performances this year are roughly what we’d have hoped for from Jimmy G. Add in the injury history of Jimmy G and is it worth paying him $20 million more than White? If there was a straight up, unbiased competition, would Jimmy G even win over White? If he did, I’d suspect it was quite close.Almost where I'm at.
Let’s face it, our QB options next year are all bad, and nothing is going to set us up for long term success. We need to find an option that allows us to compete. In my eyes, the QB isn’t going to be the reason we win games. We just need to make sure it isn’t the reason we lose them next year. To me White has shown that ability, and will be way cheaper than a guy like Jimmy G. The only reason the money matters to me is because we need so many upgrades elsewhere if the QB won’t hide those deficiencies for us. So let’s use the money to upgrade the rest of our team
Tannehill is a dark horse lolol . It's the jets don't rule anything out
Post by: dcm1602 on December 23, 2022, 02:08:23 PM
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 02:10:35 PM
If we go into next season with Zach as the favorite for QB1 I'm turning on Joe Douglas for goodWe won't
Listen to just about everyone today. It's objectively unanimous he doesn't belong on an NFL field any time soon .
You sign Mike white or a vet. That's what you do
And hopefully Saleh considers blowing up the offensive staff entirely
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 02:18:10 PM
We won't
Listen to just about everyone today. It's objectively unanimous he doesn't belong on an NFL field any time soon .
You sign Mike white or a vet. That's what you do
And hopefully Saleh considers blowing up the offensive staff entirely
Sign two vets, Mike White and a vet. Flacco has no business wearing a uniform.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 23, 2022, 02:25:25 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 23, 2022, 02:50:13 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 02:50:44 PM
I dont know what you can do with Zach but it is hard to bring him back in any capacity.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 02:51:11 PM
Realistically what's Zachs trade value?Maybe a 5th that can turn into a 3rd or 4th?
Post by: bojanglesman on December 23, 2022, 02:56:43 PM
Realistically what's Zachs trade value?
Late round pick.
Put yourself in the other teams' shoes. Why would you give up anything of any decent value based on what you've seen so far?
Post by: Johnny English on December 23, 2022, 02:57:37 PM
Flacco shouldn't even be on this roster. Why is he here? We played Streveler over him.
My best guess is as some kind of mentor for Zach because it sure ain't for what he does on the field. Doesn't appear to be very good at it if that is the case though.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 03:08:48 PM
My best guess is as some kind of mentor for Zach because it sure ain't for what he does on the field. Doesn't appear to be very good at it if that is the case though.
If there are two things the Jets love it's signing QBs to mentor their rookie QBs that would only be a detriment to the team if they actually played, and crappy rookie QBs
Post by: Johnny English on December 23, 2022, 03:32:30 PM
If there are two things the Jets love it's signing QBs to mentor their rookie QBs that would only be a detriment to the team if they actually played, and crappy rookie QBs
TBF Uncle Josh was both a good mentor and a reasonable backup when he had to play. Brunell wasn't a terrible backup either as I recall.
Post by: MBGreen on December 23, 2022, 03:45:26 PM
The other shitty thing is that the QB FA class isn't great, and neither is the draft class. I'd be on board with signing Jimmy G, but the guy doesn't last a full season.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 23, 2022, 04:00:54 PM
Post by: reuben on December 23, 2022, 05:01:34 PM
In a way, the fact that he imploded like this is a blessing in disguise. It forces us to address the issue instead of hanging on to him for three years to finally discover he wasn't it.
That's how I see it. Better to know now.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 06:05:24 PM
In a way, the fact that he imploded like this is a blessing in disguise. It forces us to address the issue instead of hanging on to him for three years to finally discover he wasn't it.Yep. If the goal was to get an answer on Zach, we got it unfortunately
Post by: insanity on December 23, 2022, 07:09:00 PM
I'm more bummed that we're back to square one with our QB situation again. I wanted Zach to succeed so bad that i refused to accept his flaws at face value in the hopes that he could work through them. I still hold MLF partly responsible (because he is), but there's plenty of blame to share.In my opinion, and I know I am likely alone with this, if a rookie top 5 pick qb fails in two years it is the offensive coordinators fault. Point blank.
The other shitty thing is that the QB FA class isn't great, and neither is the draft class. I'd be on board with signing Jimmy G, but the guy doesn't last a full season.
In this league your job as an OC is to grow your qb. If you can't take a talent like zach and make him somewhat serviceable you're done.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 23, 2022, 07:11:49 PM
In my opinion, and I know I am likely alone with this, if a rookie top 5 pick qb fails in two years it is the offensive coordinators fault. Point blank.
In this league your job as an OC is to grow your qb. If you can't take a talent like zach and make him somewhat serviceable you're done.
I think the OC is partial to blame, but then there are just dudes who can't play at this level regardless who you have at OC.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 23, 2022, 07:35:41 PM
In my opinion, and I know I am likely alone with this, if a rookie top 5 pick qb fails in two years it is the offensive coordinators fault. Point blank.
In this league your job as an OC is to grow your qb. If you can't take a talent like zach and make him somewhat serviceable you're done.
I disagree with this. Not to say it isn’t the OCs fault at all, but to say if a top 5 pick QB fails this quickly and it isn’t due to injury it’s a complete organizational failure. Everyone from the owners to the GM to the HC to the QB coach to the janitor who sweeps up the QB room to the athletic trainers to whomever is doing marketing and PR training. Obviously certain people carry more blame than others, but it’s everyone’s fault. Including Zach himself.
We haven’t been good enough at developing the kid. One of the first things Douglas needs to do when the season ends and exit interviews are over, is to setup a full organizational audit. They need to identify every problem area where they didn’t give Zach the best guidance and opportunity to thrive. So that they can start making institutional changes so that whenever we do make another serious swing at a QB, be it in the 23 draft (which no one wants) the 24 draft, 25 FA or 2037, we have learned our lessons and are prepared to much better support a young QB top to bottom.
Are the coaches a big part of it? Yes. But I am certain that’s not the only place we came up short. We need a full evaluation of why we failed, but a team like the Ravens or Bills or Bengals or Jaguars could make their young QB successful. We need to figure out our organizational failings so that we don’t repeat the same mistakes the next time we take a swing, no matter when that happens. I think we all expect that will be 2024, but we don’t know for sure, and honestly it’s going to take more than a few months to find the issues and correct them, especially when we need to identify everything else we need to fix
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 07:40:07 PM
I disagree with this. Not to say it isn’t the OCs fault at all, but to say if a top 5 pick QB fails this quickly and it isn’t due to injury it’s a complete organizational failure. Everyone from the owners to the GM to the HC to the QB coach to the janitor who sweeps up the QB room to the athletic trainers to whomever is doing marketing and PR training. Obviously certain people carry more blame than others, but it’s everyone’s fault. Including Zach himself.The tough thing for me is that every other QB who has played has been as successful or more successful than Zach.
We haven’t been good enough at developing the kid. One of the first things Douglas needs to do when the season ends and exit interviews are over, is to setup a full organizational audit. They need to identify every problem area where they didn’t give Zach the best guidance and opportunity to thrive. So that they can start making institutional changes so that whenever we do make another serious swing at a QB, be it in the 23 draft (which no one wants) the 24 draft, 25 FA or 2037, we have learned our lessons and are prepared to much better support a young QB top to bottom.
Are the coaches a big part of it? Yes. But I am certain that’s not the only place we came up short. We need a full evaluation of why we failed, but a team like the Ravens or Bills or Bengals or Jaguars could make their young QB successful. We need to figure out our organizational failings so that we don’t repeat the same mistakes the next time we take a swing, no matter when that happens. I think we all expect that will be 2024, but we don’t know for sure, and honestly it’s going to take more than a few months to find the issues and correct them, especially when we need to identify everything else we need to fix
We definitely need to take a look at the organizational structure. I defend LaFleur, but the fact is he was the OC and Calabrese was the QB coach for what is looking like one of the biggest busts in NFL history.
It also seems like the players play harder when Zach is out of the game. Body language is better for sure. They clearly don't seem to believe in the kid. Berrios was always his biggest defender, and Berrios has been terrible this season and one of many bad FA signings from Douglas.
Post by: Johnny English on December 23, 2022, 07:51:13 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 08:16:29 PM
Post by: Coach K on December 23, 2022, 08:35:48 PM
Is it not conceivable that he might not have been coachable? He seems to be living out every knock and fear that appeared in his scouting reports, maybe it's just who he is. In which case the question isn't so much why the coaching staff haven't made him into an NFL QB, but why the scouting organisation thought he could become one.This
Post by: Jumbo on December 23, 2022, 08:37:39 PM
In my opinion, and I know I am likely alone with this, if a rookie top 5 pick qb fails in two years it is the offensive coordinators fault. Point blank.
In this league your job as an OC is to grow your qb. If you can't take a talent like zach and make him somewhat serviceable you're done.
I really don't understand this point of view at all. Sometimes the scouting process fucks up and identifies the wrong player. See: Jets draft history, 2010s
It's especially hard for QB where something that's more quantifiable like athleticism matters significantly less. Considering the Russells and Rosens are a lot more common than the Youngs and Gannons I think most of the time it's just organizations failing in the scouting process, or misidentifying something. Zach came here and stunk it up immediately. That shouldn't be happening with the #2 overall pick especially in the modern NFL.
Post by: Jumbo on December 23, 2022, 08:41:18 PM
Quote
Not that anybody was going to fall too hard for a player because of anything that happened at the Combine. The team’s draft personnel were still recovering from the debacle of 2008, when they’d held the number-six pick. Then, as now, they had been in search of a bitch kitty, and during the 2007 college season, an Ohio State defensive end named Vernon Gholston caught their attention. Gholston had just set his university’s record for sacks in a year—fourteen—and one of them was against Michigan tackle Jake Long, the lone sack that portcullis of a lineman had allowed as a senior. In Indianapolis, wearing only shorts, Gholston looked not so much sculpted as quarried. Mangini was still the coach, and what he and other Jets executives were thinking after they watched this 266-pound man run a forty-yard dash in 4.65 seconds and bench-press a Combine-best thirty-seven reps of 225 pounds was that they’d just seen, as one of them said, “a Greek god who jumps over buildings.”
As so often happens when people look back on the history of how they made terrible decisions, the Jets possessed all the information to warn them away from Vernon Gholston. That information simply didn’t prevail. The Jets knew that Gholston had begun playing football very late, as a high-school sophomore; that he was on the field for only two seasons at Ohio State; that half his college sacks were compiled in two games; that he didn’t seem like a “natural” football player so much as an “analytical” athlete who appeared to process every action before he committed to it; that Gholston’s impressive Combine measurables might indicate only that he was “a workout warrior.”
All players have flaws. NFL draft mistakes often come down to the team’s inability to know if a football player will continue to display a relentless desire to play and to improve at the game after he’s signed a contract for a great deal of money. As soon as Vernon Gholston joined the Jets, put on his pads, and began playing live football, it was clear to many Jets players that the rookie had little feel for the game—that he lacked both a passion for it and “the good awareness,” as Darrelle Revis put it. Moving straight ahead, Gholston could charge hard and fast, but football is a game of angles, and sudden changes of direction drained his momentum. As plays began, Gholston had no instinctive ability to limit and refine the possibilities presenting themselves to him. “In football, no matter how fast you are, you have to see before you see,” said the Jets linebacker coach Bob Sutton.
When they came to the Jets, Ryan and Pettine had no more luck improving Gholston than their predecessors had. As the Jets defensive coaches evaluated Gholston’s practice and game film, his reactions were routinely so stiff, somebody in the room might yell, “Get the oil can!” at the screen. It was Jets special-teams coach Mike Westhoff who crushingly observed, “If he touched a hot stove today, he’d scream out tomorrow.” Occasionally in practice, Gholston would display the astonishing speed and power that reminded the other players why he’d been a top-ten draft pick. But in 2011, he’d just completed his third professional season, and, as in the first two, he hadn’t made a single sack. When the Combine ended, the Jets were going to release him.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 23, 2022, 08:55:34 PM
I really don't understand this point of view at all. Sometimes the scouting process fucks up and identifies the wrong player. See: Jets draft history, 2010shttps://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1606142199174791168
It's especially hard for QB where something that's more quantifiable like athleticism matters significantly less. Considering the Russells and Rosens are a lot more common than the Youngs and Gannons I think most of the time it's just organizations failing in the scouting process, or misidentifying something. Zach came here and stunk it up immediately. That shouldn't be happening with the #2 overall pick especially in the modern NFL.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 08:55:44 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 23, 2022, 09:34:55 PM
The tough thing for me is that every other QB who has played has been as successful or more successful than Zach.
We definitely need to take a look at the organizational structure. I defend LaFleur, but the fact is he was the OC and Calabrese was the QB coach for what is looking like one of the biggest busts in NFL history.
It also seems like the players play harder when Zach is out of the game. Body language is better for sure. They clearly don't seem to believe in the kid. Berrios was always his biggest defender, and Berrios has been terrible this season and one of many bad FA signings from Douglas.
I failed to mention the scouts involved. If Zach is just completely uncoachable, we failed the evaluation process.
If he’s truly a giant dick who alienates his teammates (I don’t think so, they all buddy-buddied the guy this offseason and named him a captain in the preseason) we fucked up his character evaluation.
I can guarantee you we failed this kid in multiple places in this organization. But even if by some miracle we did everything exactly right once he came in the door, we missed on the evaluation so badly that we need to completely revamp how we scout QBs.
My point about the audit still stands. We can and should do an organizational top to bottom to find out where we fucked up. Douglas and Saleh should leverage his contacts in other organizations who got it right developing a QB to figure out how they can improve.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 23, 2022, 09:42:50 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 07:24:39 AM
Blaine Gabbert is also veteran QB we could sign.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221224/ae6eec373ee1f24d6f6becef6c6a2465.gif)
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 24, 2022, 08:03:42 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221224/ae6eec373ee1f24d6f6becef6c6a2465.gif)
How about Taylor Heinickie?
Post by: MBGreen on December 24, 2022, 09:11:35 AM
How about Taylor Heinickie?
Now you have my attention
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2022, 01:13:39 PM
If he's released, we have to make a call. It'd probably between us, LAR, WSH, and IND. Maybe ATL too.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2022, 01:26:42 PM
Trade Zach Wilson and some picks to Las Vegas for Davante Adams
Profit
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 28, 2022, 01:43:41 PM
Sign Derek Carr
Trade Zach Wilson and some picks to Las Vegas for Davante Adams
Profit
Why would they do that?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2022, 01:47:06 PM
Why would they do that?
Adams went there to play with his best friend, Derek Carr. He's not staying if Carr's gone.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 28, 2022, 01:59:50 PM
Adams went there to play with his best friend, Derek Carr. He's not staying if Carr's gone.Does he have a choice?
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 28, 2022, 02:07:49 PM
Does he have a choice?
It's year 2 of a 5 year deal, I'd be surprised if they'd let him go.
Didn't Carr also say that if the Raiders let him go he'd retire?
Post by: Badger on December 28, 2022, 02:41:35 PM
Sign Derek Carr
Trade Zach Wilson and some picks to Las Vegas for Davante Adams
Profit
Why would they do that?Reframe it:
A 1st and maybe some later pick with Zach Wilson as a throw-in
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 28, 2022, 02:48:29 PM
Reframe it:
A 1st and maybe some later pick with Zach Wilson as a throw-in
Ziegler: Lose the Zach Wilson and.you have a deal.
Douglas: Ugh, fine
Post by: bojanglesman on December 28, 2022, 03:15:19 PM
Ziegler: Lose the Zach Wilson and.you have a deal."We're just gonna cut Wilson but tell him we traded him to you. Just lock the doors when he gets there "
Douglas: Ugh, fine
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2022, 03:28:39 PM
Didn't Carr also say that if the Raiders let him go he'd retire?
This might change his mind
Post by: steves850 on December 28, 2022, 03:40:25 PM
I know I've seen this man cry at least twice in his career and that's more than I can say about any other QB. I only remember TO crying?
I'm not saying I have an issue with it at all. Just could see it going sideways.
Post by: Badger on December 28, 2022, 03:48:03 PM
I'd take Carr in a heartbeat but I'd be concerned about him in the New York spotlight. He's seems super sensitive\thin skinned. I could see him getting swallowed hole.Simply put Hughes and Cimini at the bottom of a well before preseason and it should work out.
I know I've seen this man cry at least twice in his career and that's more than I can say about any other QB. I only remember TO crying?
I'm not saying I have an issue with it at all. Just could see it going sideways.
Post by: steves850 on December 28, 2022, 03:49:21 PM
Simply put Hughes and Cimini at the bottom of a well before preseason and it should work out.
I vote doing this regardless of who we sign at QB.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 28, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
I'd take Carr in a heartbeat but I'd be concerned about him in the New York spotlight. He's seems super sensitive\thin skinned. I could see him getting swallowed hole.I think he is more of a heart-on-his sleeve guy. Extremely religious. Handled the Henry Ruggs thing as well as any QB possibly could.
I know I've seen this man cry at least twice in his career and that's more than I can say about any other QB. I only remember TO crying?
I'm not saying I have an issue with it at all. Just could see it going sideways.
I've never been a huge fan of his as a QB, though he was good the previous few years.
Post by: Johnny English on December 28, 2022, 04:23:34 PM
Adams went there to play with his best friend, Derek Carr. He's not staying if Carr's gone.
Maybe the Raiders get Rodgers to replace Carr.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2022, 05:00:17 PM
Maybe the Raiders get Rodgers to replace Carr.
Then we should trade for Nuk Hopkins
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 28, 2022, 06:40:11 PM
His no-trade clause basically means he gets to pick his destination.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 28, 2022, 06:50:30 PM
Carr has a no-trade clause and a decision has to be made within 3 days after the Super Bowl. We will know pretty early the deal with Carr.
His no-trade clause basically means he gets to pick his destination.
More likely he gets cut if they have to decide financially 3 days after the super bowl
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 28, 2022, 07:44:29 PM
I vote doing this regardless of who we sign at QB.
Second
Post by: delavan on December 28, 2022, 07:52:07 PM
OR
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/A_bit_of_cleavage.jpg/320px-A_bit_of_cleavage.jpg)
Post by: Libero_2 on December 28, 2022, 07:55:19 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Derrick.JPG/180px-Derrick.JPG)
OR
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/A_bit_of_cleavage.jpg/320px-A_bit_of_cleavage.jpg)
Tower funbags…?
Post by: delavan on December 28, 2022, 07:58:40 PM
(as in sign him)
Post by: steves850 on December 28, 2022, 07:59:28 PM
Tower funbags…?Pumping funbags
Post by: MBGreen on December 28, 2022, 08:14:41 PM
Pumping funbagsOily funbags
Post by: steves850 on December 28, 2022, 08:16:23 PM
Oily funbagsI accept this definition and agree with his post.
Oily funbags will be the next QB for the Jets.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 28, 2022, 09:01:57 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2022, 09:19:26 PM
Curious to see where Jimmy G falls on the FA charts if LaFleur and the rest of the offensive staff are gutted.
I think he’ll stay in SF
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 29, 2022, 03:25:10 AM
Curious to see where Jimmy G falls on the FA charts if LaFleur and the rest of the offensive staff are gutted.
I don't understand what make you guys think they will be. I mean, I don't like him too much but the HC obviously does and not having a QB is a legitimate excuse to stay. I might be mistaken but I think there's 0.1% chance of MLF leaving and Robert Saleh staying.
EDIT: Hadn't read the LaCanfora report. I think it's bullshit but it completely explains the discussion. Proceed as you were.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 29, 2022, 10:04:21 AM
I don't understand what make you guys think they will be. I mean, I don't like him too much but the HC obviously does and not having a QB is a legitimate excuse to stay. I might be mistaken but I think there's 0.1% chance of MLF leaving and Robert Saleh staying.
EDIT: Hadn't read the LaCanfora report. I think it's bullshit but it completely explains the discussion. Proceed as you were.
I think if White looks good, but the offense still fails to produce points because of shitty redzone play, or the fact we can’t run for 40 yards again, we should expect changes on the offensive side of the ball. It might not be MLF, but some adjustments are coming
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 10:41:13 AM
That doesn't necessarily mean firing Mike LaFleur. John Benton and Rob Calabrese should be replaced no matter how we finish.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 29, 2022, 10:49:44 AM
Saleh should start the season on the hot seat if the offense stalls in these last two games and changes aren't made to his offensive staff.
That doesn't necessarily mean firing Mike LaFleur. John Benton and Rob Calabrese should be replaced no matter how we finish.
The organization gave LaFleur way too much patience to learn how to adjust his offense with absolutely no results.
I understand that there could be a path forward for him to stay on the team but for the life of me I cannot picture it.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 10:52:59 AM
The organization gave LaFleur way too much patience to learn how to adjust his offense with absolutely no results.
I understand that there could be a path forward for him to stay on the team but for the life of me I cannot picture it.
Based on some comments during this rough stretch for the Jets, Saleh is pissed about the offensive line and he's also hinted at being frustrated with LaFleur's play calling.
Benton got the DUI in the offseason and it was kind of swept under the rug. He's on the thinnest ice on this staff.
I think a lot of the LaCanfora report is bullshit, but I completely understand Woody Johnson wanting some change after our #2 overall QB prospect's failure likely pushed us out of the playoffs.
---
Saleh had a real opportunity to make an in-season change by promoting Ron Middleton to a run game coordinator position. He didn't make that move though.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 29, 2022, 11:14:04 AM
I think in some early games we saw things working better in his play calling but were then abandoned when he got stuck. I guess he's got something in common with Wilson there.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 11:19:24 AM
LaFleur at least needed help and didn't get it. That could have been because Saleh wanted him to swim on his own or he might have refused it.
I think in some early games we saw things working better in his play calling but were then abandoned when he got stuck. I guess he's got something in common with Wilson there.
Prime example of how he's struggled lately: Bam Knight is a downhill, one cut back and he's using him on outside zone and toss plays. He refuses to adapt to his personnel. He thinks whatever he calls will work, no matter who's running the play.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 29, 2022, 11:24:40 AM
Prime example of how he's struggled lately: Bam Knight is a downhill, one cut back and he's using him on outside zone and toss plays. He refuses to adapt to his personnel. He thinks whatever he calls will work, no matter who's running the play.
I think that part of the reason for that is our IOL is about as hard as a memory foam pillow, but as you said it's not like his alternative ideas are working. Good riddance.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 29, 2022, 11:26:09 AM
Saleh doesn't need to dictate the playcalls, but he needs to rein in playcalling. That's the job of a head coach. Rex Ryan lost his job because he refused to get directly involved with the offense, and no matter how frustrated Bob may be, it's on him to tell MLF "Do it my way, or I'll hand the headset to someone who will."
All that said, I wouldn't necessarily fire either of them yet. But something has to change. And if the offense doesn't perform these last couple of games, a change at OC has to be on the table.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 11:29:45 AM
"Do it my way, or I'll hand the headset to someone who will."
This is his way. He wanted McDaniel and LaFleur. Shanahan blocked the better of the two.
He thinks this offense is the best because it is ...if someone capable is calling it. We have the passing game coordinator from a run heavy scheme. It's a recipe for disaster and that's how it's turned out so far.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 29, 2022, 11:30:32 AM
Based on some comments during this rough stretch for the Jets, Saleh is pissed about the offensive line and he's also hinted at being frustrated with LaFleur's play calling.I forgot about the Benton DUI. Great point there.
Benton got the DUI in the offseason and it was kind of swept under the rug. He's on the thinnest ice on this staff.
I think a lot of the LaCanfora report is bullshit, but I completely understand Woody Johnson wanting some change after our #2 overall QB prospect's failure likely pushed us out of the playoffs.
---
Saleh had a real opportunity to make an in-season change by promoting Ron Middleton to a run game coordinator position. He didn't make that move though.
Hard to know how much of LaCanfora to take seriously, but nothing surprises me that much with Woody.
And we have a real chance to end the season on a 6-game losing streak with our #2 pick from 2021 being off the roster next year. A little ironic that we're playing Pete Carroll this week. I was too young for Carroll, but we started 6-5 for his only year, lost our final 5 games, and he was gone.
These last 2 games can really change so much with this franchise. It's hard to sell 7-10 when you don't have a QB as major progress when you end on a 6-game losing streak. On the flip side, we could go 9-8 and make the playoffs and Saleh is safe for a couple years.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 11:31:01 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 11:32:54 AM
These last 2 games can really change so much with this franchise. It's hard to sell 7-10 when you don't have a QB as major progress when you end on a 6-game losing streak. On the flip side, we could go 9-8 and make the playoffs and Saleh is safe for a couple years.
The outcome here can make or break the franchise for the foreseeable future.
Post by: MBGreen on December 29, 2022, 11:34:09 AM
He refuses to adapt to his personnel. He thinks whatever he calls will work, no matter who's running the play.
I'm not absolving Zach of any blame, because he really stunk it up. But that sentence right there is a huge reason why he failed here, imo.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 29, 2022, 11:36:58 AM
I really think Zach Wilson will still be here next year, but as a clear backup. Mainly because of his cap hit. He doesn't need to even be in the conversation at starter. I'm fine if they find a way to move on though, just don't know if anything worthwhile will materialize.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 11:37:21 AM
I'm not absolving Zach of any blame, because he really stunk it up. But that sentence right there is a huge reason why he failed here, imo.
Admitting that he scrapped a huge portion of the playbook to help Zach and then using an immobile statue like Mike White on rollouts when he took over spoke volumes.
He really cut Wilson's legs out of the equation and then called out his footwork this morning in his presser. Zero development from LaFleur and Calabrese. His footwork got worse since he came into the league.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 29, 2022, 11:39:41 AM
This is his way. He wanted McDaniel and LaFleur. Shanahan blocked the better of the two.
He thinks this offense is the best because it is ...if someone capable is calling it. We have the passing game coordinator from a run heavy scheme. It's a recipe for disaster and that's how it's turned out so far.
Fair enough, but that brings up a more concerning point. If Saleh is okay with this playcalling, when everyone with eyes can see how bad it is, then he's a problem too and if LaFleur is shown the door, he should walk out with him.
Post by: steves850 on December 29, 2022, 11:40:23 AM
Waiting is frustrating, but that's what we have to do regarding a QB. Let's see what White does these last 2 games, if he doesn't get murdered. Let's see who even makes it to becoming an option for us.
I really think Zach Wilson will still be here next year, but as a clear backup. Mainly because of his cap value. He doesn't need to even be in the conversation at starter. I'm.fine I'd they find a way to move on though, just don't know if anything worthwhile will materialize.
Absolutely we see what we have in house with White, however we should be turning over every stone to find a veteran. If White was the guy, it would be clear. We wouldn't have this thread. He may be the guy right now because the difference between him and a veteran is minimal besides the price tag.
You keep grabbing QBs until you have a clear answer.
We need to retool and simplify the offense regardless. Play to our strengths and cover up our weaknesses. Hall will be back next year. Build a fuckin wall, run the offense thru Hall and hit Wilson for 6 points all day long.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 11:48:59 AM
Fair enough, but that brings up a more concerning point. If Saleh is okay with this playcalling, when everyone with eyes can see how bad it is, then he's a problem too and if LaFleur is shown the door, he should walk out with him.
I don't think that he is OK with it.
Post by: MBGreen on December 29, 2022, 11:51:41 AM
Admitting that he scrapped a huge portion of the playbook to help Zach and then using an immobile statue like Mike White on rollouts when he took over spoke volumes.
He really cut Wilson's legs out of the equation and then called out his footwork this morning in his presser. Zero development from LaFleur and Calabrese. His footwork got worse since he came into the league.
Yes...and it makes my blood boil thinking about it.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 29, 2022, 05:06:09 PM
The outcome here can make or break the franchise for the foreseeable future.
If that happens then we deserve whatever happens to us. Most of us expected this team to be 7-10 by the end of this season. It hurts that it is with a 6 game losing streak? Yeah but a 7-10 will always hurt one way or another. The process is going exactly as expected, it’s time for retooling what needs to be retooled not to go crazy and blow everything up. What we have now is better than what we’ve had in the last 12 years. Can’t we be a little patient and trust the process for once?
Post by: MBGreen on December 29, 2022, 05:20:33 PM
If that happens then we deserve whatever happens to us. Most of us expected this team to be 7-10 by the end of this season. It hurts that it is with a 6 game losing streak? Yeah but a 7-10 will always hurt one way or another. The process is going exactly as expected, it’s time for retooling what needs to be retooled not to go crazy and blow everything up. What we have now is better than what we’ve had in the last 12 years. Can’t we be a little patient and trust the process for once?I dont trust our offensive staff.
We lost too many games by shooting ourselves in the collective foot, and it typically happened on that side of the ball.
I have all the patience in the world for the rest of team...
Post by: Heismanberg on December 29, 2022, 05:41:18 PM
Can’t we be a little patient and trust the process for once?
It has nothing to do with us.
Woody Johnson lurks in the shadows.
Post by: Coach K on December 29, 2022, 06:30:33 PM
Saleh should start the season on the hot seat if the offense stalls in these last two games and changes aren't made to his offensive staff.This x100
That doesn't necessarily mean firing Mike LaFleur. John Benton and Rob Calabrese should be replaced no matter how we finish.
Post by: Coach K on December 29, 2022, 06:31:39 PM
This is his way. He wanted McDaniel and LaFleur. Shanahan blocked the better of the two.Le sigh
He thinks this offense is the best because it is ...if someone capable is calling it. We have the passing game coordinator from a run heavy scheme. It's a recipe for disaster and that's how it's turned out so far.
Post by: Coach K on December 29, 2022, 06:32:51 PM
I'm not absolving Zach of any blame, because he really stunk it up. But that sentence right there is a huge reason why he failed here, imo.I dont think wilson was gonna succeed no matter what . We all have expressed plenty of offensive staff criticism
But zach is mentally fragile and possibly physically. This ain't BYU and he wasn't built for the big stage
Certainly not NY Media
He is gonna be Geno 2.0 the physical traits are clearly there lol
Post by: Libero_2 on December 29, 2022, 07:02:20 PM
If that happens then we deserve whatever happens to us. Most of us expected this team to be 7-10 by the end of this season. It hurts that it is with a 6 game losing streak? Yeah but a 7-10 will always hurt one way or another. The process is going exactly as expected, it’s time for retooling what needs to be retooled not to go crazy and blow everything up. What we have now is better than what we’ve had in the last 12 years. Can’t we be a little patient and trust the process for once?
I think you can trust the process and still realize that you made some mistakes and need to make adjustments and improve.
Right now I’m on the bandwagon of making changes to WR and OL coaches and re-tooling the entire run game, assuming Mike White comes back and continues to showcase what he has so far this season. I think there’s enough there to expect it can continue to improve. Especially if we actually hire some coaches with legitimate experience, preferably someone whos called plays at the NFL level before
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 30, 2022, 03:21:33 AM
Post by: ScotlandJet on December 30, 2022, 09:37:44 AM
I said it weeks ago and if we man up we get him.
Carr has been dropped - he’s out of sorts and if he got a chance to be our guy he’d jump
Post by: bojanglesman on December 30, 2022, 10:46:23 AM
Post by: Badger on December 30, 2022, 11:27:45 AM
I want not Zach WilsonBest we can do is Zach Wilson with a beard.
Post by: steves850 on December 30, 2022, 11:29:11 AM
Best we can do is Zach Wilson with a beard.
That's not Zach Wilson... that's Wach Zilson.
Post by: ScotlandJet on December 30, 2022, 12:21:13 PM
If that happens then we deserve whatever happens to us. Most of us expected this team to be 7-10 by the end of this season. It hurts that it is with a 6 game losing streak? Yeah but a 7-10 will always hurt one way or another. The process is going exactly as expected, it’s time for retooling what needs to be retooled not to go crazy and blow everything up. What we have now is better than what we’ve had in the last 12 years. Can’t we be a little patient and trust the process for once?
Patient!
Come on man - I know you’re not serious.
This fan base has PhD’s in Patience!
I say again we need to be bold. With some good fiscal manoeuvres I’d seek the ranch and get a player and that had to be Derek Carr.
I’ll be patient when I’m dead and at my age that’s coming up on the rails 😂
Post by: delavan on December 30, 2022, 12:24:20 PM
MLF questions aside, Miles Austin had zero exp as a WR coach and only 1 year as a QC coach.
Calabrese was a QB coach at Wagner College (FCS) on Staten Island and then (like Austin) cut his teeth on the NFL level for 1 year as a QC coach.
whoop dee fuckin do - now who hired these two (greg knapp aside)?
Post by: Heismanberg on December 30, 2022, 12:30:35 PM
(greg knapp aside)?
MLF, Calabrese, and Austin really needed him.
Post by: MBGreen on December 30, 2022, 01:00:06 PM
MLF, Calabrese, and Austin really needed him.I find it slightly concerning (and annoying) that we put quite a few eggs in the Knapp basket.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 30, 2022, 02:16:38 PM
I find it slightly concerning (and annoying) that we put quite a few eggs in the Knapp basket.
I’m less concerned about that given how good Knapp was. I’m more concerned that Saleh and Co didn’t feel the need to replace his experience after he passed. Somebody somewhere recognized Knapp was important, which is why they hired him. That same somebody either felt horrible replacing Knapp once he had died, or felt they actually didn’t need him once Calabrese got rolling in year one. Either way they were wrong wrong wrong.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 30, 2022, 03:07:37 PM
I find it slightly concerning (and annoying) that we put quite a few eggs in the Knapp basket.I mean, you don't really expect your coach to die days before training camp. I don't think you can really plan for that.
If you want to judge them for not making changes last season, I get it.
Post by: MBGreen on December 30, 2022, 03:12:27 PM
I mean, you don't really expect your coach to die days before training camp. I don't think you can really plan for that.You don't find it irresponsible for an entire coaching staff to rely on the experience of one guy (who isn't the OC)?
If you want to judge them for not making changes last season, I get it.
Not replacing him compounded the issue and made it worse.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 30, 2022, 03:13:07 PM
I find it slightly concerning (and annoying) that we put quite a few eggs in the Knapp basket.Knapp sack.
Post by: MBGreen on December 30, 2022, 03:20:04 PM
Knapp sack.3.5 honks
Post by: dcm1602 on December 30, 2022, 04:29:11 PM
You don't find it irresponsible for an entire coaching staff to rely on the experience of one guy (who isn't the OC)?Obviously our offensive staff is pretty young.
Not replacing him compounded the issue and made it worse.
But Saleh is a head coach and has 18 years of experience. The expectation should be that he can lead and train his guys. Obviously Knapp was a huge loss regardless and would've been a huge resource for him as well, and the Jets response to losing him 100% could/should be criticized.
Let's not forget that Benton and Shamash also have quite a bit of offensive experience too. I presume Shamash took on a much larger role in the offense after the Knapp thing, but I have nothing to support that
I think head coaches need to surround themselves with people they trust, so if course a first time head coach is going to be around younger guys. Good coaches with 20-30 years experience aren't sitting around begging for jobs from first time head coaches. Knapp was the big one they brought on, and the way it turned out obviously fucked everything up
Post by: dcm1602 on December 30, 2022, 04:48:17 PM
Lions, Eagles 49ers, Dolphins Texans, Rams
Again I don't think the way the coaching staff was built was the major problem. It was the lack of adjustments to losing Knapp
Post by: bojanglesman on December 31, 2022, 09:50:51 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 31, 2022, 11:20:08 AM
Watching Derek Carr fap highlight YouTube videos because I want to see what a non-terrible QB looks like.You're setting yourself up for disappointment
Post by: bojanglesman on December 31, 2022, 11:32:00 AM
You're setting yourself up for disappointmentProbably.
Post by: MBGreen on December 31, 2022, 11:33:52 AM
Probably.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221231/23bf4938ddc3eabe73697c2eb60ba514.gif)
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2023, 01:50:41 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status/1609558311598268421
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2023, 05:35:12 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 01, 2023, 05:43:44 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 01, 2023, 05:47:22 PM
I'll also assume he's definitely not the guy
Jimmy G is the guy, Carr is a fair fallback option
Though to me whoever we can get on more favorable team terms I'm happy with
Post by: Heismanberg on January 01, 2023, 05:48:43 PM
I'll assume Whites probably struggling in a tough place to play while still pretty banged up
I'll also assume he's definitely not the guy
He’s just not good.
He’s a career backup, which is fine.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2023, 06:00:23 PM
Carr or Jimmy G. I really don't care.if it's Jimmy G...those 3 games we'll have him for will be glorious.
Post by: steves850 on January 01, 2023, 06:23:59 PM
if it's Jimmy G...those 3 games we'll have him for will be glorious.
Offensive player of the month September.
IR player of the month Oct - Jan.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 01:05:27 AM
Geno Smith
Sam Darnold
Zach Wilson
Open competition.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 02, 2023, 04:20:25 AM
Jets 2023 QB room
Geno Smith
Sam Darnold
Zach Wilson
Open competition.
I know it's a joke but we wouldn't be able to afford all three.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 02, 2023, 07:06:34 AM
I know it's a joke but we wouldn't be able to afford all three.
I also don’t think we’d get competent play out of any of them either
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 02, 2023, 08:41:36 AM
Post by: Coach K on January 02, 2023, 08:56:11 AM
After doing some soul searching I've decided I'm a Jimmy G guy.Best 7 games you'll see next yr
I hate him becsuse you're never gonna get a full season thus defeating the point of signing him
Post by: MBGreen on January 02, 2023, 09:03:05 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 02, 2023, 09:07:02 AM
Best 7 games you'll see next yr
I hate him becsuse you're never gonna get a full season thus defeating the point of signing him
Unless the point of signing him is to enact the MB plan of going to get your qb in 2024, while pretending to really compete in 2023.
Post by: Coach K on January 02, 2023, 09:07:59 AM
Carr > Jimmy G...on durability alone.Same
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 09:33:08 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 02, 2023, 09:35:10 AM
Carr is better, but is he so much better that he's worth a ton more money? There could be a huge gap between their salaries. And I don't think there's a huge gap in their abilities when both are healthy. You'd be paying for the durability.
You'd be paying more for stability which this franchise desperately needs
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2023, 09:36:07 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 09:36:42 AM
I think there's a decent chance that Jimmy stays in SF anyway. I'm not sure they'll want to roll with Lance and Purdy.Why not? That seems like exactly what they would do.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2023, 09:38:27 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 02, 2023, 09:40:06 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2023, 09:41:35 AM
Why not? That seems like exactly what they would do.
Because they're a team that's competing for a Super Bowl, and a Lance/Purdy tandem has no track record that says they're able to compete at that level. The next few weeks might inform that decision more.
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2023, 09:42:10 AM
Geno is the best option but he would never come back here
He's also a knobhead.
Post by: Coach K on January 02, 2023, 09:47:56 AM
Carr is better, but is he so much better that he's worth a ton more money? There could be a huge gap between their salaries. And I don't think there's a huge gap in their abilities when both are healthy. You'd be paying for the durability.I'm over the whole value of return vs sunken cost debate
Get a freaking guy in here who knows how to play the position
Because we haven't had once since Fitzpatrick or Favre
Even Sanchez is an upgrade over everything that's walked through the door since
Yes pay him
The only other argument to he made is is you can secure both Brisset and Minshew and have them compete
But thats literally my worst case scenario
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 09:54:49 AM
Because they're a team that's competing for a Super Bowl, and a Lance/Purdy tandem has no track record that says they're able to compete at that level. The next few weeks might inform that decision more.That's fair, though they were willing to roll with Lance this year and would have traded Jimmy. Purdy has played at a level comparable to Jimmy, so I don't really see why they would sink a ton of money into Jimmy.
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2023, 10:03:23 AM
The only other argument to he made is is you can secure both Brisset and Minshew and have them compete
Did you see the Eagles game yesterday? I want nothing to do with Minshew, he's worse than White.
Post by: Badger on January 02, 2023, 10:25:44 AM
Carr is better, but is he so much better that he's worth a ton more money? There could be a huge gap between their salaries. And I don't think there's a huge gap in their abilities when both are healthy. You'd be paying for the durability.I actually don't think he's better, and the only argument between them is durability.
Post by: Badger on January 02, 2023, 10:26:47 AM
He's also a knobhead.Geno Smith would manage to antagonize Micheal Clemons within 15 minutes of signing here.
Post by: Johnny English on January 02, 2023, 10:28:16 AM
Geno Smith would manage to antagonize Micheal Clemons within 15 minutes of signing here.
There wouldn't be a public jaw breaking though, Geno would just not come into work one day and would never be heard from again. He'd become New York's second most famous missing person.
Post by: Badger on January 02, 2023, 10:31:03 AM
There wouldn't be a public jaw breaking though, Geno would just not come into work one day and would never be heard from again. He'd become New York's second most famous missing person.You read my mind.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 02, 2023, 10:32:00 AM
Geno is not better than Carr. He's also older than both Carr and Jimmy.
He played better than Carr this year, only questions are if you think he is for real and if Carr is on decline (he had a down year)
He’s older than Carr by a year. Also a FA as opposed to having to trade for Carr
Doesn’t really matter, he’s not coming back
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 10:47:25 AM
He played better than Carr this year, only questions are if you think he is for real and if Carr is on decline (he had a down year)I imagine Carr is getting cut. The rest of it, I agree.
He’s older than Carr by a year. Also a FA as opposed to having to trade for Carr
Doesn’t really matter, he’s not coming back
Post by: Heismanberg on January 02, 2023, 10:53:22 AM
He played better than Carr this year, only questions are if you think he is for real and if Carr is on decline (he had a down year)
He’s older than Carr by a year. Also a FA as opposed to having to trade for Carr
Doesn’t really matter, he’s not coming back
Geno had one good year and he’s been in the league a decade.
Carr has been at worth a Top 12 QB for basically his entire career.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2023, 12:29:13 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 02, 2023, 12:41:34 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 02, 2023, 12:43:20 PM
Carr is under contract and it's a doozy. Are we discussing this under the assumption they release him and take the cap hit? Bc I can't see us trading for him with that contract
I believe that is the running assumption. He's only a $5.6mil cap hit next season if he's cut.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 02, 2023, 12:48:04 PM
Carr is under contract and it's a doozy. Are we discussing this under the assumption they release him and take the cap hit? Bc I can't see us trading for him with that contract
I’d take the contract if that’s what it took to get him
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 02, 2023, 12:49:05 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 02, 2023, 05:58:06 PM
Carr is under contract and it's a doozy. Are we discussing this under the assumption they release him and take the cap hit? Bc I can't see us trading for him with that contract
They have to cut or trade him within 5 days of the Super Bowl or they are on the hook for all his money. Carr and the raiders will be resolved fast. Now once Carr is cut, how long he takes to sign is totally up to him.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 02, 2023, 06:44:36 PM
The complicated part other than the no trade clause, is his guarantees kick in, in February. And he can't get traded until the new league year begins in March
Obviously they can agree to anything in principle, but then either Carr or the team trading for him can completely freak them.
I don't see how they successfully trade him without a massive amount of risk. From a financial perspective I expect Carr to be far more expensive if he gets signed as a UFA. A contract structured similar to Cousins with more money presumably
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 10:23:28 AM
The Raiders obviously want to do everything in their power to trade Carr and reports are expected that they'll try to shop him out.
The complicated part other than the no trade clause, is his guarantees kick in, in February. And he can't get traded until the new league year begins in March
Obviously they can agree to anything in principle, but then either Carr or the team trading for him can completely freak them.
I don't see how they successfully trade him without a massive amount of risk. From a financial perspective I expect Carr to be far more expensive if he gets signed as a UFA. A contract structured similar to Cousins with more money presumably
We need an offensive line, I don't think Carr will be successful with our swiss cheese blocking him. However, we absolutely need to swing for the fences on a QB. We can't draft one for fuckall and we see what happens when that is the missing piece in the franchise.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 10:44:30 AM
We need an offensive line, I don't think Carr will be successful with our swiss cheese blocking him. However, we absolutely need to swing for the fences on a QB. We can't draft one for fuckall and we see what happens when that is the missing piece in the franchise.What "swing-for-the-fences" options are there besides Carr? Maybe Brady and Rodgers. And even Carr hasn't shown he's an elite guy. Carr seems to be in the Kirk Cousins/Garoppolo class of guys you can win a little with but would prefer to have a better option to win a Super Bowl with.
If we sign Carr, I think that's the only big move we make at QB. But for anyone else, we probably want to get a young QB option in the room. Of course, the elephant in the room is Zach, as we really have no idea how the team and staff views him for 2023.
Post by: MBGreen on January 03, 2023, 10:45:48 AM
What "swing-for-the-fences" options are there besides Carr? Maybe Brady and Rodgers. And even Carr hasn't shown he's an elite guy. Carr seems to be in the Kirk Cousins/Garoppolo class of guys you can win a little with but would prefer to have a better option to win a Super Bowl with.
If we sign Carr, I think that's the only big move we make at QB. But for anyone else, we probably want to get a young QB option in the room. Of course, the elephant in the room is Zach, as we really have no idea how the team and staff views him for 2023.
Lamar Jackson. He's probably not leaving Baltimore, but he fits your description of a "swing for the fences" FA option.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 03, 2023, 10:45:53 AM
TBD how much his injury situation impacts his contract.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 10:48:21 AM
What "swing-for-the-fences" options are there besides Carr? Maybe Brady and Rodgers. And even Carr hasn't shown he's an elite guy. Carr seems to be in the Kirk Cousins/Garoppolo class of guys you can win a little with but would prefer to have a better option to win a Super Bowl with.
If we sign Carr, I think that's the only big move we make at QB. But for anyone else, we probably want to get a young QB option in the room. Of course, the elephant in the room is Zach, as we really have no idea how the team and staff views him for 2023.
"Swing for the fences" Means to take a huge chance - so it would be pretty much any free agent or tradable QB.
Jimmy G and Derek Carr are the likely the most expensive QBs that are attainable.
Of course there's Tom Brady, Baker, Sam, Teddy, Daniel Jones, Geno, Taylor Heinecke and technically Lamar, but most don't see him actually hitting the market.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 10:52:51 AM
Jimmy G is a big moveHe's a big move, but the reason he is available is because the team he was on decided to swing for the fences for Lance. I think Carr is a similar guy, except he's more durable, which is obviously important.
TBD how much his injury situation impacts his contract.
The bar has been set so low with the Jets that we would kill for an average QB in the short-term in 2023. But long-term, the goal is to have a guy who is better than Jimmy G at QB.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 10:55:43 AM
He's a big move, but the reason he is available is because the team he was on decided to swing for the fences for Lance. I think Carr is a similar guy, except he's more durable, which is obviously important.
The bar has been set so low with the Jets that we would kill for an average QB in the short-term in 2023. But long-term, the goal is to have a guy who is better than Jimmy G at QB.
I think 15 teams would take a "Jimmy G or Derek Carr" type QB in a heartbeat.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 11:02:42 AM
I think 15 teams would take a "Jimmy G or Derek Carr" type QB in a heartbeat.That's not the point. We know there are QB-needy teams that would kill for the stability. Right now, we are one of them, so it makes sense for us to target them.
Can we win a Super Bowl with them, especially if they are making a lot of money? Tougher question. The 49ers decided that Garoppolo is a good QB for the bottom 15 teams, but not good enough to try to win a Super Bowl with.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 11:06:16 AM
That's not the point. We know there are QB-needy teams that would kill for the stability. Right now, we are one of them, so it makes sense for us to target them.
Can we win a Super Bowl with them, especially if they are making a lot of money? Tougher question. The 49ers decided that Garoppolo is a good QB for the bottom 15 teams, but not good enough to try to win a Super Bowl with.
Your point is that the Jets set the bar so low that they want what at least half the league wants as well?
We can't win a super bowl with what we are currently putting on the field and the biggest talent vacuum is at QB. You do what it takes to fill that void and adjust. Give them a two or three year contract and keep drafting a QB.
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 11:11:00 AM
That's not the point. We know there are QB-needy teams that would kill for the stability. Right now, we are one of them, so it makes sense for us to target them.
Can we win a Super Bowl with them, especially if they are making a lot of money? Tougher question. The 49ers decided that Garoppolo is a good QB for the bottom 15 teams, but not good enough to try to win a Super Bowl with.
What are the alternatives?
-Sign a cheaper unproven QB to compete with Zach
-Draft another (we don't have a high pick and this fucks with our potential window)
Attempting to sign the best available QB seems pretty reasonable, considering.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 11:11:02 AM
Whatever it is, he’s not going to look as good as he did in SF, for a number of reasons. He also can’t stay healthy, so it’s not exactly a slam dunk.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 11:14:18 AM
Jimmy G’s actual talent level/rank among QB’s is pretty debatable.
Whatever it is, he’s not going to look as good as he did in SF, for a number of reasons. He also can’t stay healthy, so it’s not exactly a slam dunk.
What's not debatable is that he is 100% more talented than anyone on the Jets roster.
67.6% completion percentage
87 TD 42 INT
14289 yards
I'm worried about his health as much as the next one but we could and have done a lot worse than Jimmy G.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 03, 2023, 11:14:28 AM
Doubt he’s leaving there anyways
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 03, 2023, 01:38:31 PM
Going through an offseason and into a new year as the clearly defined backup might give him a chance to actually reset and get fixed.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 02:50:10 PM
Would it be unreasonable to go into next year with Zach as QB2, White as QB3
No, that would be too expensive.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 02:58:26 PM
Unless he lights it up this week, White probably lost his payday. Would it be unreasonable to go into next year with Zach as QB2, White as QB3, and then pursue whichever guy we can get (Carr is my preferred unless Jackson shakes free--which he won't)?Not for Carr. I think if it's Carr, you go with him, Wilson, and maybe a cheap vet/mid-late round pick.
Going through an offseason and into a new year as the clearly defined backup might give him a chance to actually reset and get fixed.
It's hard to find a spot for Wilson. If Carr is the guy, and Wilson is also making his salary, it's hard to also pay a 3rd guy.
It really all depends how much faith they have in Wilson. No matter what, we need to have a young, developmental QB on the roster. If they have lost all faith in Wilson, then trade him for whatever you can get. Even if you get a 4th-round pick, it may be a better use of resources to use that pick on a QB, bring back White as a backup, and make that the QB room.
If they still believe in Wilson, then he is likely the main backup.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 03:09:22 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 03:10:43 PM
If the plan is Vet(Carr\Jimmy G) and a young project QB, which QB in the draft would fit that bill?I think if it's Jimmy G, you need to draft someone relatively early.
If it's Carr, we can probably grab someone late.
Have not dug into the class enough to have names. Jake Haener was always a mid-late round guy I liked to watch.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 03, 2023, 03:35:04 PM
the ideal situation would be to obtain QB1 (carr/garoppolo; i prefer carr after a cut), get mike white to agree to another backup money contract, and find a taker for zach.
we won't be able to obtain anything reasonable for zach at this point, so he'll still be here as our development. i hope we can find a third QB for that room that will be both affordable enough for our cap and can potentially give us a better shot at winning than if we had to roll a still unprepared zach out there
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 03:50:49 PM
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 03:52:59 PM
i would not feel confident going into the season with zach as qb2 and first guy up if our QB1 went down. we'd essentially give up any potential offensive output that week unless we somehow transform into a rushing juggernaut with hall back at 100% full capacity and a drastically solidified OL, which has an iffy likelihood at this point. but i understand we'd be hamstrung by the cap ramifications of the QB room
the ideal situation would be to obtain QB1 (carr/garoppolo; i prefer carr after a cut), get mike white to agree to another backup money contract, and find a taker for zach.
we won't be able to obtain anything reasonable for zach at this point, so he'll still be here as our development. i hope we can find a third QB for that room that will be both affordable enough for our cap and can potentially give us a better shot at winning than if we had to roll a still unprepared zach out there
I don't agree with this approach. We know what we have in Mike White, I'd rather get a project in the draft than roll with White as QB2.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
I don't agree with this approach. We know what we have in Mike White, I'd rather get a project in the draft than roll with White as QB2.
A project rookie would probably not be ready to step in if [veteran QB we signed] goes down, which is what I assume sw0rdz wanted Mike White for.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 03:58:57 PM
I'm fine with Wilson is the backup but he should have to compete with a mid-to-late round rookie for that spot. If our starter goes down, it's probably over anyway. That's just how the NFL works.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 03:59:13 PM
A project rookie would probably not be ready to step in if [veteran QB we signed] goes down, which is what I assume sw0rdz wanted Mike White for.
Sure but how many QBs can we carry? If we lose our starter, we are in trouble regardless. I'd rather put the time, effort, and energy into a future prospect. White is a veteran, the hypothetical FA we sign is a veteran. We don't need two of em.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 04:00:46 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 04:01:21 PM
Sure but how many QBs can we carry? If we lose our starter, we are in trouble regardless. I'd rather put the time, effort, and energy into a future prospect. White is a veteran, the hypothetical FA we sign is a veteran. We don't need two of em.
Well, we're carrying four right now and sw0rdz's ideal scenario also involves finding someone to take Wilson off of our hands so I don't see the numbers problem here.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 04:03:26 PM
We need to sign or trade for a proven veteran starter like Jimmy G or Derek Carr.
I'm fine with Wilson is the backup but he should have to compete with a mid-to-late round rookie for that spot. If our starter goes down, it's probably over anyway. That's just how the NFL works.
I really don't like using this line of logic. We can get a better backup and survive, especially if we have an actual OLine next year and a defense that plays like our current one or better.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 04:04:24 PM
Well, we're carrying four right now and sw0rdz's scenario also involves finding someone to take Wilson off of our hands so I don't see the numbers problem here.
Yeah, that's working out great for us. That roster spot should be for an OL.
Vet FA
project QB
sign a FA to the practice squad for emergency situations.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 04:05:03 PM
Yeah, that's working out great for us. That roster spot should be for an OL.
Vet FA
project QB
sign a FA to the practice squad for emergency situations.
Hey look, I found a roster spot for Wilson.
Don't most teams have 3 on the active list anyway?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 03, 2023, 04:05:16 PM
I really don't like using this line of logic. We can get a better backup and survive, especially if we have an actual OLine next year and a defense that plays like our current one or better.
There aren't too many backups out there better than Mike White. They are backups for a reason.
We've seen very few teams hold it together when their starter goes down: Patriots*, Baltimore with Dilfer, and Philly with Foles come to mind
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
I really don't like using this line of logic. We can get a better backup and survive, especially if we have an actual OLine next year and a defense that plays like our current one or better.
You don't have to like it but it's a reality. We have too many needs to use that roster spot for an emergency QB.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 03, 2023, 04:09:27 PM
I don't agree with this approach. We know what we have in Mike White, I'd rather get a project in the draft than roll with White as QB2.
i am not as down on mike white as others are. i think he can be a capable backup when healthy
he was horrible this past week, but it was obvious that the rib injury and the flak jacket we macgyver-ed for him were affecting his throws and his touch/accuracy, which is where he makes his living as a quarterback. the way he had to torque his torso/upper body behind some of his throws looked straight up awkward
all in all i'm at least happy we have an answer, that we need a legit qb as neither white nor wilson would be that guy. the worst possible outcome for us would have been an equivocal performance where he was 'okay', game is closer than it was, and we go into the offseason with a white/wilson qb battle as a potential path forward
i think white could be our backup guy after we get a guy like carr or garoppolo, but ultimately i don't see it happening (white as backup QB) as i don't think we can get a price we would be comfortable with for zach, and having carr/jimmy + white + zach seems a lot to invest at QB. at the same time, i just can't see either JD or saleh betting their jobs on zach being a winning QB if our starter goes down, which is very likely if we end up getting garoppolo. i'm interested in seeing how they'll figure that out
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 04:10:30 PM
There aren't too many backups out there better than Mike White. They are backups for a reason.
We've seen very few teams hold it together when their starter goes down: Patriots*, Baltimore with Dilfer, and Philly with Foles come to mind
Which is why I wanted White back as the #2 over Wilson. I don't want to bring him back to start, I want him as the backup to fill in when necessary. He's proven he's useful in that role. Let him continue to do it.
You don't have to like it but it's a reality. We have too many needs to use that roster spot for an emergency QB.
This is a very strange way of saying you miss Connor McDermott.
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 04:13:51 PM
In other words, there's far more value in a depth LB, OL, S, etc than a depth QB.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 04:19:26 PM
I like and respect Mike White as a backup QB. This team is more than one position away from making a run. With limited roster spots, we should focus on a capable FA and a talented project QB. Fill in the other spots with OL, linebackers, safety, etc. The talent drop off from a backup QB is astronomical compared to a backup LB.
In other words, there's far more value in a depth LB, OL, S, etc than a depth QB.
All I'm reading from this is you're comfortable with a vet QB and than a rookie with an incomplete skill set that we'll ruin like Wilson by throwing him in too early.
We could just as easily find a better replacement off of the streets or someone else's practice squad for an OL, LB, or safety if the talent dropoff isn't that bad.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 04:21:59 PM
Post by: steves850 on January 03, 2023, 04:23:43 PM
All I'm reading from this is you're comfortable with a vet QB and than a rookie with an incomplete skill set that we'll ruin like Wilson by throwing him in too early.
We could just as easily find a better replacement off of the streets or someone else's practice squad for an OL, LB, or safety if the talent dropoff isn't that bad.
This is absurd and either you lack reading comprehension or you're being needlessly dense.
Start of season:
Vet FA signing
Project QB
Practice Squad QB
If something drastic happens, call up practice squad and\or sign a FA.
The other depth players will see playing time well before this third QB you speak of.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
This is absurd and either you lack reading comprehension or you're being needlessly dense.
Start of season:
Vet FA signing
Project QB
Practice Squad QB
If something drastic happens, call up practice squad and\or sign a FA.
The other depth players will see playing time well before this third QB you speak of.
Coolsies.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 04:47:03 PM
However, if we are going after some random veteran who isn't a star, that means we should keep taking swings at young quarterbacks hoping we stumble into someone. On paper, Zach Wilson is that guy, but he's making a lot of money for that role and he's in Year 3. If you think he can be the backup, great, have him compete with a cheap either young vet or rookie. If you're so down on him you need to also pay White to be the main backup, then trade him.
TLDR: I think it's hard to see both Zach AND Wilson on the roster next year
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 04:49:25 PM
Just for perspective we're also arguing over the makeup of the 5 guys that get declared inactive every week so I'm just going to let this one go.Like hell you are. DEBATE ME, SIR.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 03, 2023, 05:01:26 PM
This is absurd and either you lack reading comprehension or you're being needlessly dense.
Start of season:
Vet FA signing
Project QB
Practice Squad QB
If something drastic happens, call up practice squad and\or sign a FA.
The other depth players will see playing time well before this third QB you speak of.
who is your project QB in this scenario? would it be zach
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 03, 2023, 05:08:43 PM
Wilson
Carr
White
Garoppolo
Wilson
Vet/late pick
Garoppolo
White
5th-rd pick
Garoppolo
Day 1/Day 2 pick
Cheaper vet
Post by: Gorilla on January 03, 2023, 05:54:22 PM
Carr
Wilson
Carr
White
Garoppolo
Wilson
Garoppolo
White
5th-rd pick
Garoppolo
Day 1/Day 2 pick
Cheaper vet
Out of these options Carr/Wilson or Garoppolo/Wilson seem most likely, imho (although I wouldnt bet money on anything, its all still so fluid).
Zach has the best chance of our current QBs of being on the roster in '23, unless JD can get an unlikely, favorable trade offer. If White wants to re-sign on a team-friendly, typical-backup QB deal, that's fine too. Counting on those two competing for starting QB is not conducive to Saleh and Douglas keeping their jobs.
I expect a Jimmy G or Carr to be hot targets. I don't foresee yet another rookie project QB on Day 2 or 3 of draft when we already have a more experienced and better project in Zach.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 03, 2023, 06:06:01 PM
but keeping him likely hinges on the ability to move zach, which as has been stated is not something we will likely be able to do for a return we would stomach
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 03, 2023, 06:10:53 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 03, 2023, 07:00:30 PM
At least with Jimmy G you can assume he wants to be here
(I've also seen the idea of patriots signing Jimmy G and then trading Mac to Oakland, but that presumably is journalistic fan fiction)
Post by: Libero_2 on January 03, 2023, 07:52:08 PM
Is there any indication that Carr would have any interest whatsoever in playing for the Jets?
At least with Jimmy G you can assume he wants to be here
(I've also seen the idea of patriots signing Jimmy G and then trading Mac to Oakland, but that presumably is journalistic fan fiction)
Good young WR, good young RB, top notch defense, good team that was in the hunt until it’s QB play was so bad the team collapsed. One could argue we are a good place for a vet QB to want to land. Now are we choice #1? That is clearly debatable.
Post by: reuben on January 03, 2023, 08:01:59 PM
Sometimes I wonder what people think a project player is.
Clearly it's a player on whom you project your own insecurities and regrets and then drive to failure as an unconscious expression of your own self-loathing. YOU RUINED MY CHILDHOOD DAD WILSON
Post by: Johnny English on January 03, 2023, 08:12:31 PM
TLDR: I think it's hard to see both Zach AND Wilson on the roster next year
(https://media.tenor.com/cH9gfgKqp-cAAAAC/umm-wait.gif)
Post by: dcm1602 on January 03, 2023, 08:27:30 PM
Good young WR, good young RB, top notch defense, good team that was in the hunt until it’s QB play was so bad the team collapsed. One could argue we are a good place for a vet QB to want to land. Now are we choice #1? That is clearly debatable.
It's also possibly the toughest division in the NFL and the team with the biggest playoff drought. Plus you have inexperienced coach inexperienced OC, and this is a franchise legendary for futility
The state of the franchise is better than its been in a long time. I'm just not convinced it's going to be able to court a QB who probably can go to 15-20 teams
Carr is among one of the best things that can happen to this team
I just haven't seen anything to suggest it's mutual. Obviously it's way too soon for stuff to get out like that. But it'll be interesting to see if this pipe dream is a possibility
Post by: dcm1602 on January 03, 2023, 08:38:09 PM
Followed by the Jets then Titans.
At least the Colts are one of the teams whose coaching is unquestionably worse than ours.
My question would they be willing to bring in a HC purely to get Carr there
Post by: Badger on January 03, 2023, 10:02:16 PM
At least the Colts are one of the teams whose coaching is unquestionably worse than ours.
Unless the Colts land Harbaugh or Payton...
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 04, 2023, 06:42:06 AM
Carr/Wilson or Carr/White, either way the point was good that if Carr goes down so does the offense. The question is whether you think you can develop Zach over a couple of years and if you can get Carr here for a short-term deal.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 04, 2023, 09:33:33 AM
NYJ Receives:
Derek Carr
Davante Adams
LV Receives:
Zach Wilson
Elijah Moore
1st & 2nd rd pick
Post by: MBGreen on January 04, 2023, 09:37:16 AM
Saw this online somewhere...would you do it?
NYJ Receives:
Derek Carr
Davante Adams
LV Receives:
Zach Wilson
Elijah Moore
1st & 2nd rd pick
that would only work if LV retained salary on Adams' contract.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 04, 2023, 09:54:23 AM
Saw this online somewhere...would you do it?
NYJ Receives:
Derek Carr
Davante Adams
LV Receives:
Zach Wilson
Elijah Moore
1st & 2nd rd pick
I'm not cool with the draft picks.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 04, 2023, 09:56:22 AM
I'm not cool with the draft picks.
Same
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 04, 2023, 10:56:16 AM
- Seattle could get a top-3 pick. Do they let Geno walk?
- Does Chicago turn to Young or Stroud over Fields?
- Does Ssn Francisco get a guy like Carr and move on from Lance?
Post by: Johnny English on January 04, 2023, 11:17:14 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 04, 2023, 11:18:34 AM
I have yet to talk myself out of going after Rodgers.
I think he is still elite. Just got surrounded with mediocre talent this year.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 04, 2023, 11:34:54 AM
I'm also curious what other interesting QBs pop up.
- Seattle could get a top-3 pick. Do they let Geno walk?
- Does Chicago turn to Young or Stroud over Fields?
- Does Ssn Francisco get a guy like Carr and move on from Lance?
None of these QBs are interesting.
Post by: Jumbo on January 04, 2023, 11:36:48 AM
Saw this online somewhere...would you do it?
NYJ Receives:
Derek Carr
Davante Adams
LV Receives:
Zach Wilson
Elijah Moore
1st & 2nd rd pick
As long as our pick doesn't end up in the top 10-12. Salaries can be evened out a bit but with the current roster it's worth a stab
Post by: dcm1602 on January 04, 2023, 11:39:13 AM
Saw this online somewhere...would you do it?
NYJ Receives:
Derek Carr
Davante Adams
LV Receives:
Zach Wilson
Elijah Moore
1st & 2nd rd pick
Absolutely not
Post by: steves850 on January 04, 2023, 11:40:11 AM
Saw this online somewhere...would you do it?
NYJ Receives:
Derek Carr
Davante Adams
LV Receives:
Zach Wilson
Elijah Moore
1st & 2nd rd pick
my only pause is on the draft picks but I tend to overvalue them. I don't hate it.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 04, 2023, 11:40:47 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 04, 2023, 11:42:31 AM
my only pause is on the draft picks but I tend to overvalue them. I don't hate it.
This would be my thinking too.
We can get back $25 million by moving on from Lawson and Corey Davis.
I'm absolutely fine with losing Davis and his wage, but I don't want to move on from Lawson. He's not a sack machine but he's been a consistent and reliable part of a very effective line, he consistently creates pressure.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 04, 2023, 11:45:45 AM
This would be my thinking too.
I'm absolutely fine with losing Davis and his wage, but I don't want to move on from Lawson. He's not a sack machine but he's been a consistent and reliable part of a very effective line, he consistently creates pressure.
Is Jermaine Johnson his replacement?
Post by: Libero_2 on January 04, 2023, 12:20:37 PM
Is Jermaine Johnson his replacement?
I think JJ was drafted to take JFMs job, based on the side of formation they play.
But I still think Lawson could be brought back on a reduced deal.
If you swing a deal for Adams, cutting Davis is tantamount, unless you send him back to LV derriere part of the deal.
If memory serves, last year the raiders paid a 1 and a 3 for Adams alone, a deal many of us would have gladly done a year ago. If you are telling me getting “our” QB moves the 3rd to a 2nd? I think we’d all be on board with that. I’d hate to lose Elijah in the deal though. Because we still would need another young/cheap WR to at least have a trio of guys. If we have to give More, I’d like to try and give a 2024 2 to help spread out the pick losses.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 04, 2023, 12:24:13 PM
Is Jermaine Johnson his replacement?
JJ
Huff
Clemons
Post by: dcm1602 on January 04, 2023, 12:44:10 PM
I think JJ was drafted to take JFMs job, based on the side of formation they play.
But I still think Lawson could be brought back on a reduced deal.
If you swing a deal for Adams, cutting Davis is tantamount, unless you send him back to LV derriere part of the deal.
If memory serves, last year the raiders paid a 1 and a 3 for Adams alone, a deal many of us would have gladly done a year ago. If you are telling me getting “our” QB moves the 3rd to a 2nd? I think we’d all be on board with that. I’d hate to lose Elijah in the deal though. Because we still would need another young/cheap WR to at least have a trio of guys. If we have to give More, I’d like to try and give a 2024 2 to help spread out the pick losses.
For context Davante contract was backloaded
This year he basically played for almost free
Then next year he has a good cap number. Then his cap number absolutely balloons.
The guys an elite wideout, but his value definitely dipped
And the concern of paying 80 million a year for the two of them would certainly be challenging
The one saving Grace is Adams would be done here by the time Sauce and Wilson were ready to get paid
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 04, 2023, 12:53:06 PM
I think we need to keep taking swings to find our stud edge rusher (or stud fellow DL to go with Quinnen). If our defense is based on our defensive line being great, then let's build a great DL.
If we move on from Lawson, I think we draft another DL early.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 04, 2023, 12:56:49 PM
If our defense is based on our defensive line being great, then let's build a great DL.
We've seen in the past that this doesn't matter if you can't score points
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 04, 2023, 01:02:49 PM
We've seen in the past that this doesn't matter if you can't score pointsWe need to do that, too.
But most of the time our elite DLs were never really elite. We had very good players on paper, but it never turned into the production we wanted.
Quarterback is the number 1 priority this offseason, followed by offensive line. But DL and general playmaker on defense are up there, too. WR, too.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 04, 2023, 01:42:09 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 04, 2023, 02:05:38 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 04, 2023, 02:07:51 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 04, 2023, 02:08:43 PM
I think Carl's presence on the edge really helped Quinnen make the leap. We can certainly plug JJ into the starting lineup there but it weakens our rotation.
Yeah, no reason to weaken what is currently our best unit. Honestly Mosley would be a better target for recouping some finances.
One of the best cases for Carl to come back is another year removed from the Achilles, maybe you get better play. He hasn't been bad - he just hasn't taken a leap like we hoped when we signed him.
Another healthy year with a, hopefully, stronger healed Achilles should get him there.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:27:10 PM
I also think we draft another edge. Johnson is fine, but I'm not sure what his upside is.
I think we need to keep taking swings to find our stud edge rusher (or stud fellow DL to go with Quinnen). If our defense is based on our defensive line being great, then let's build a great DL.
If we move on from Lawson, I think we draft another DL early.
“Among qualified rookie DEs he ranks:
T-5th in Sacks (3)
1st in Sack Rate (2.5%)
2nd Run Stops (15)
1st in Run Stop Rate (11.9%)
His 251 snaps is 118th among DEs and 15th among rookies. Despite this, his 15 run stops is T-26th overall”
He had a high floor, it’s more his ceiling that was in question. (IMO)
I’d say this is definitely a positive rookie year. Wonder if he would have played better or worse if he was utilized more.
Let’s see if he can improve upon this, based on what I’ve seen on the field I don’t see why not.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 12:28:04 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 05, 2023, 12:31:00 PM
We need to do that, too.
But most of the time our elite DLs were never really elite. We had very good players on paper, but it never turned into the production we wanted.
Quarterback is the number 1 priority this offseason, followed by offensive line. But DL and general playmaker on defense are up there, too. WR, too.
Mo and Sheldon had great years and then fizzled out. Snacks played at an elite level the whole time here.
I think the problem was we invested so much into 3-4 DL and never had any success at OLB. There’s going to be a limited ceiling on that D if you don’t have real edge rushers
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 05, 2023, 01:38:00 PM
Johnson is ridiculously good against the run and does a lot of stuff that won't show up in the box score. Clemons too.
We really need the first round pick we traded back into the first round for to show up in the box score eventually.
Clemons being the guy who does all the things that don't show up on the stat sheet is fine.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2023, 01:55:50 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2023, 02:10:21 PM
We really need the first round pick we traded back into the first round for to show up in the box score eventually.
He played at a high level when he was on the field. The rotation (plus his injury) limited his production.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 05, 2023, 02:28:44 PM
He played at a high level when he was on the field. The rotation (plus his injury) limited his production.
That and his injuries also limited him. We'll see how he develops next season. The amount of people he's rotating with is about to fall off.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 05, 2023, 08:33:43 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:53:17 PM
I'm more concerned witb FS and DT depth
I'd prefer we just move JFM inside permanently but makes sense to play him at end on run downs
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:54:16 PM
also, the past few weeks we've spent the majority of the time being down a couple scores. seems like that wouldn't be a positive with regards to the playing time of somebody being utilized as a situational pass rusherAmen
Post by: Coach K on January 05, 2023, 08:55:01 PM
Him and huff are actually underused
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2023, 01:14:53 AM
Darnold is also an intriguing option. I can't imagine he comes back, but he definitely played better this year and he's still very young. And he'll also come a little cheaper, I think. I'm not fully sold on any of the veteran options, but at least he's young.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 07, 2023, 01:18:15 AM
I think there's a really good chance it's Garoppolo. I think the injuries will bring his value down just enough, and when he's healthy, I think he's just as good as Carr.
Darnold is also an intriguing option. I can't imagine he comes back, but he definitely played better this year and he's still very young. And he'll also come a little cheaper, I think. I'm not fully sold on any of the veteran options, but at least he's young.
I think Garrapolo's market might be more robust then Carr's.
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2023, 09:03:01 AM
I think there's a really good chance it's Garoppolo. I think the injuries will bring his value down just enough, and when he's healthy, I think he's just as good as Carr.
I think Garrapolo's market might be more robust then Carr's.
Jimmy Country, Let's Ride
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 10:28:31 AM
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2023, 10:42:17 AM
Jimmy won't last a full season...hard passWhat part of let's ride don't you understand?
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 11:09:43 AM
What part of let's ride don't you understand?
what part of hard pass don't you?
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2023, 11:16:34 AM
what part of hard pass don't you?The incorrectness of it.
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 11:19:17 AM
The incorrectness of it.
He's played 1 full season in 6 seasons at SF.
the hard pass stands.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 07, 2023, 01:15:36 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 07, 2023, 01:17:43 PM
He's played 1 full season in 6 seasons at SF.
the hard pass stands.
If Carr goes elsewhere for any reason…. Who is your backup plan? If not Jimmy G, what are you rolling with Minshew who can’t even look good with a dominant eagles team?
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 01:30:56 PM
If Carr goes elsewhere for any reason…. Who is your backup plan? If not Jimmy G, what are you rolling with Minshew who can’t even look good with a dominant eagles team?If we can't get Carr, then I don't give a excrement about 2023...because I'll be looking towards the 2024 draft to find a QB.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2023, 01:33:55 PM
If we can't get Carr, then I don't give a excrement about 2023...because I'll be looking towards the 2024 draft to find a QB.So your plan is to get Joe Douglas fired?
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 01:38:29 PM
So your plan is to get Joe Douglas fired?Whatever it takes to get a franchise QB.
But I don't think Joe gets fired.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 07, 2023, 01:50:54 PM
Whatever it takes to get a franchise QB.
But I don't think Joe gets fired.
If we go 5-12 because we didn’t have a QB plan, after knowing we didn’t have a qb on the roster, I’d be surprised if he doesnt
This is why you of all people should be team Jimmy G. If he miraculously stays healthy, we get good QB play, and if he gets hurt as most people would expect, we suck, get a pretty high pick and you are sitting pretty in the 2024 class for a QB.
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 01:54:07 PM
If we go 5-12 because we didn’t have a QB plan, after knowing we didn’t have a qb on the roster, I’d be surprised if he doesntMaybe 2024 is the plan...and he finds some scrub to start in 2023.
If he gets fired, excrement happens. Just don't bring in another Idzik, thanks.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 07, 2023, 01:56:10 PM
JJ is a damn good player . The motor alone is there . And he's not unatheltic .
Him and huff are actually underused
That’s cool. He needs to get to the QB more next season.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 07, 2023, 02:15:20 PM
Maybe 2024 is the plan...and he finds some scrub to start in 2023.If the llan is to waste a year of Wilson, AVT, Brewce, Sauce and others being on cheap deals, then it's a bad plan.
If he gets fired, excrement happens. Just don't bring in another Idzik, thanks.
And regardless, someone is playing QB next year. Who do you want it to be?
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 02:25:37 PM
If the llan is to waste a year of Wilson, AVT, Brewce, Sauce and others being on cheap deals, then it's a bad plan.I want Carr or ZW with a new offensive coaching staff.
And regardless, someone is playing QB next year. Who do you want it to be?
Or Lamar, but that's a pipe dream.
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 02:28:58 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 07, 2023, 06:53:06 PM
Or if they're looking ahead to the 2024 draft...then put any scrub in for 2023.
You can’t do this intentionally.
How can G-Wilson, Hall, AVT, Moore, and whichever guys we are about to draft this year reach their developmental peak with no QB? You can’t waste the talent you have and not give them the chance to develop by just rolling a Flacco out there next year.
Post by: MBGreen on January 07, 2023, 09:07:58 PM
You can’t do this intentionally.We've been wasting talent for 30+ years...whats one more season?
How can G-Wilson, Hall, AVT, Moore, and whichever guys we are about to draft this year reach their developmental peak with no QB? You can’t waste the talent you have and not give them the chance to develop by just rolling a Flacco out there next year.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 07, 2023, 11:23:39 PM
We've been wasting talent for 30+ years...whats one more season?
Flushing a year of talent is, in general, bad.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 08, 2023, 01:12:27 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 08, 2023, 05:34:53 AM
We've been wasting talent for 30+ years...whats one more season?
What true talent have we had on this roster since the 2010 run?
Revis and Cro? Old and washed for their second stints. Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker? One year wonders. Chris Ivory? Stud battering ram, but he’s not an elite nfl talent. Jamal Adams? He wishes he was an elite player.
Seriously what true talent have we had wasting away in the past decade? This was Q’s big year and the youth movement just got here this year, for our best season in 7 years.
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 08:15:31 AM
Flushing a year of talent is, in general, bad.Welcome to the new york jets?
Post by: Coach K on January 08, 2023, 08:37:13 AM
I'm amused people are so ardent about Jimmy G the guy who's team got to s upper bowl . Went out of their way to replace him . The got proven right yet again why he needs to be replaced
If Jimmy G comes here he better be discounted. Someone else can vastly overpay for a fraction of a season.
Post by: Coach K on January 08, 2023, 08:37:46 AM
Post by: Coach K on January 08, 2023, 08:39:12 AM
Unless Mike white has already tokd you hes gonna he a backup rofl
Ughhh I hate this team sometimes. It feels like being in a BDSM dungeon club where the jets spit in your mouth and cuck you and we keep buying merchandise and coming back for more
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 08:53:01 AM
If you get Jimmy G you gotta get brisset or minshewZach got rekt in the wrong offseason. The lack of viable QB options for 2023 really stinks.
Unless Mike white has already tokd you hes gonna he a backup rofl
Ughhh I hate this team sometimes. It feels like being in a BDSM dungeon club where the jets spit in your mouth and cuck you and we keep buying merchandise and coming back for more
This is typical for this franchise. We can't have nice things.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 08, 2023, 09:59:18 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 08, 2023, 10:14:55 AM
Tanking in 2023 will net us a new coach and GM.
According to Chris Mortensen, that might be on the table this week.
Post by: Gorilla on January 08, 2023, 11:18:47 AM
Tanking in 2023 will net us a new coach and GM.
Totally agree.
No playoffs in 2023 and Saleh is gone, JD is 80% chance gone. If we figure out qb during offseason , come hell or high water, it should be a moot point (hopefully....lol Jets fans and "hope" are like crackheads suckin' on that glass dick).
For us to get a top 3 pick and a shot at Caleb Williams would be a tank/collapse of huge proportions, and nobody is surviving that. Clean sweep and re-do with another new regime and QB, aka "Normal Jets Leap Year".
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2023, 06:55:03 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 08, 2023, 06:56:25 PM
I can't say it wouldn't be nice to have him here, but damn we'd have to mortgage our draft forever to do it.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 08, 2023, 06:57:49 PM
Does our decision on LaFG affect which QBs would choose to come here?
I mean the most probable QB's all have Shanahan/WCO connections with the Rodgers/Jimmy G connections being obvious.
So unless we plan on going off the beaten path I don't think so. Plus it's not like there's anyone out there I can see us bringing in that'll make someone like Carr want to come here more, unless we somehow bring in like Doug Marrone.
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2023, 07:03:14 PM
Does our decision on LaFG affect which QBs would choose to come here?It probably does.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 08, 2023, 08:33:04 PM
Does our decision on LaFG affect which QBs would choose to come here?Well, if it's Garoppolo, I assume we keep LaFleur.
If it's Rodgers, I assume it's Hackett.
Haven't done much research into other guys.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 08, 2023, 10:48:16 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2023, 12:08:40 PM
We’re not tanking again so soon
But it turned out so well the last 2 times!
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2023, 12:08:47 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 10, 2023, 12:10:14 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2023, 12:32:29 PM
At this point, I just want Rodgers for the theatre.I've had my fill of theatre for the last 25 years, thanks.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 10, 2023, 09:44:50 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 10, 2023, 09:46:03 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2023, 08:38:19 AM
Rodgers retires
Carr signs with Carolina
Jimmy G stays with SF
Now what?
I’m worried that we have to sell an OC a plan for a QB that is by no means a guarantee. The clear plan B is fix Zach with yet another excrement tier Vet QB as competition. Who is signing up for that job?
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 08:41:39 AM
Lamar gets dealt to Texans (2 picks in top 12)
Rodgers retires
Carr signs with Carolina
Jimmy G stays with SF
Now what?
I’m worried that we have to sell an OC a plan for a QB that is by no means a guarantee. The clear plan B is fix Zach with yet another excrement tier Vet QB as competition. Who is signing up for that job?
Lots of scenarios that people will hate no matter what.
Who knows if Fields ends up getting shopped and what kind of impact that could have on us
Quite frankly if we don't get any of those 4 I can't see anyone being happy and excrement like Baker Mayfield starts rising to the top.
Best case scenario at that point is we pivot to the most run heavy offense in the league draft a fullback etc etc
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 08:43:46 AM
Lamar gets dealt to Texans (2 picks in top 12)Zach for Trey trade
Rodgers retires
Carr signs with Carolina
Jimmy G stays with SF
Now what?
I’m worried that we have to sell an OC a plan for a QB that is by no means a guarantee. The clear plan B is fix Zach with yet another excrement tier Vet QB as competition. Who is signing up for that job?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:45:07 AM
Lamar gets dealt to Texans (2 picks in top 12)
Rodgers retires
Carr signs with Carolina
Jimmy G stays with SF
Now what?
I’m worried that we have to sell an OC a plan for a QB that is by no means a guarantee. The clear plan B is fix Zach with yet another excrement tier Vet QB as competition. Who is signing up for that job?
Tannehill + Wilson + a draft pick
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:48:59 AM
Keeping LaFleur was spinning our tires, so I really don't understand the argument that Connor Hughes and our beat is trying to make about hiring an underwhelming candidate. Our offense was pitiful.
If we swing and miss, we start over. Everyone knows this. Saleh just needs to find someone that can get us average results with an offensive group that should have some better pieces in 2023. The offense needs stability at QB and we need an offensive identity, which we've lacked since Rex Ryan.
We don't have to score a lot of points with our defense. We just need to score points and take care of the ball.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2023, 08:50:19 AM
Tannehill + Wilson + a draft pick
Titans were 3rd worst in yards and 5th worst in points and they had Derrick Henry and Not MLF calling their plays
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:51:09 AM
Titans were 3rd worst in yards and 5th worst in points and they had Derrick Henry and Not MLF calling their plays
Tannehill is still better than any QB we currently have on the roster.
Trading AJ Brown, Tannehill getting hurt, and the stretch of games with Willis/Dobbs really killed their offense.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2023, 08:52:42 AM
Tannehill is still better than any QB we currently have on the roster.
Trading AJ Brown, Tannehill getting hurt, and the stretch of games with Willis/Dobbs really killed their offense.
Ugh I know
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 08:56:41 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 08:57:35 AM
Tannehill will get Saleh and JD fired next season.
If we can run the ball and play high level defense again, he can get us to the playoffs.
He's worst case scenario but he's a solid veteran.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 08:58:38 AM
If we can run the ball and play high level defense again, he can get us to the playoffs.Just making a prediction...that's all.
He's worst case scenario but he's a solid veteran.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 09:00:20 AM
If we can run the ball and play high level defense again, he can get us to the playoffs.
He's worst case scenario but he's a solid veteran.
Tannenhill is more of the better consolation prizes. There's a lot of realistic far worse scenarios
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 09:12:23 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 09:18:15 AM
Tannehill looks like he's on the downslope of a not especially inspiring career. Hard pass.
Depends if the plan is for Zach, or to move on.
If we can't get a grownup, and are adamant on developing Zach. A one year deal for Tannenhill isn't awful
If Zach isn't in the plans, then I'd rather any of the younger options
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 09:21:56 AM
Tannehill looks like he's on the downslope of a not especially inspiring career. Hard pass.
He's a very underwhelming long term option for me. As a stopgap, i'm fine with it.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 09:32:49 AM
Tannehill looks like he's on the downslope of a not especially inspiring career. Hard pass.
If we don't get Carr or pull off some crazy trade for Lamar Jackson, none of these options are going to be longterm.
If we end up with Tannehill, QB is very much in play at 13th overall or with our second rounder.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2023, 09:39:10 AM
Quote
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Raiders "will begin the process of evaluating the trade market for QB Derek Carr."
Rapoport also notes that Carr will likely play a role in this evaluation since the veteran quarterback has a no-trade clause built into his contract. Carr's involvement in the process will undoubtedly help expedite things, as he likely already has a list of teams in mind who he would consider playing for. If the Raiders are unable to reach a trade agreement with another team, they could always opt to release him but the $33 million in guaranteed money he's set to get in 2023 could make that somewhat difficult. Despite his struggles down the stretch, there should be plenty of QB-needy teams in the market for Carr's services next season.
Carr to his agent: “Get me to a team that knows what they’re doing on offense. Get me to the New York Jets.”
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 09:40:59 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 09:42:14 AM
What's the deadline for cutting Carr to avoid the guarantees?
Wasn't it 3 days after the SB?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 09:53:10 AM
Carr to his agent: “Get me to a team that knows what they’re doing on offense. Get me to the New York Jets.”
ask him what coaches he wants and hire all of them
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 09:56:12 AM
Wasn't it 3 days after the SB?Sounds right but I was too lazy to check.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 10:28:01 AM
https://twitter.com/derekcarrqb/status/1613560895011184641?s=20&t=lds3MuG7RFLkW-DOMjo17A
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 12:12:38 PM
He's never had a top defense to have his back.
He'll get one of the best young receivers in the league in Garrett Wilson, plus Breece Hall who is as good as it gets as a checkdown option. He has a chance to help Moore turn things around - Moore won't be able to say no to Jesus.
The Jets give him a chance to prove the Raiders wrong. We're a team that's a QB away and he can prove that he was the missing piece.
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 12:25:04 PM
If the Jets are targeting Derek Carr, we can build an offensive staff that wants him and one that he prefers over any other offensive staff in the league.
He's never had a top defense to have his back.
He'll get one of the best young receivers in the league in Garrett Wilson, plus Breece Hall who is as good as it gets as a checkdown option. He has a chance to help Moore turn things around - Moore won't be able to say no to Jesus.
The Jets give him a chance to prove the Raiders wrong. We're a team that's a QB away and he can prove that he was the missing piece.
You can sell me on this idea.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 12:25:54 PM
You can sell me on this idea.
didn't he just do that?
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 12:28:38 PM
didn't he just do that?
Not completely. Derek Carr isn't a player that excites me greatly, he doesn't give me the same feeling in my pants as Q-Aaron. But if it comes to pass then I can be sold on why it's a better idea.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 12:29:15 PM
It's clear Woody/Douglas/Saleh are big game hunting for a QB now...money/draft capital be damned. We should be able to land one of these guys.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 12:29:40 PM
Not completely. Derek Carr isn't a player that excites me greatly, he doesn't give me the same feeling in my pants as Q-Aaron. But if it comes to pass then I can be sold on why it's a better idea.
I don't even consider Rodgers an option.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 12:30:19 PM
You can sell me on this idea.
You can make Carr happen by giving him what he wants. He gets to choose where he plays next. That gives Joe Douglas leverage in trade demands too.
Lamar Jackson would be awesome to have at QB, but we'll have to give him a record setting contract plus a king's ransom in picks and players.
You can get Derek Carr. I don't know if you go get Jackson.
We need a QB and Carr is the quickest fix.
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 12:32:18 PM
I don't even consider Rodgers an option.
He probably isn't, although I think he's a more realistic option than Lamar and I'd take Carr over Lamar as well.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 12:36:57 PM
At least 3 1sts plus probably being the top paid QB in the league for a guy who is entirely dependent on his legs and is hurt every year.
Might as well pack it up and call it a day
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 12:38:58 PM
He probably isn't, although I think he's a more realistic option than Lamar and I'd take Carr over Lamar as well.
Hackett is one of the more realistic OC candidates, meaning Rodgers is very realistic.
This is dependent on him not retiring of course.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 12:39:06 PM
Lamars a terrible freaking option
At least 3 1sts plus probably being the top paid QB in the league for a guy who is entirely dependent on his legs and is hurt every year.
Might as well pack it up and call it a day
He's a 25 year old MVP.
Post by: steves850 on January 12, 2023, 12:40:43 PM
Lamars a terrible freaking option
At least 3 1sts plus probably being the top paid QB in the league for a guy who is entirely dependent on his legs and is hurt every year.
Might as well pack it up and call it a day
hahahahahahahahaha
Anyway, Lamar would be an elite option but probably isn't realistic. I'd take Carr, then Jimmy G. After that then we're settling for scraps.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 12:41:21 PM
hahahahahahahahaha
Anyway, Lamar would be an elite option but probably isn't realistic. I'd take Carr, then Jimmy G. After that then we're settling for scraps.
Jimmy G should move all the way down the list if our scheme is different (which is likely will be)
Post by: Jumbo on January 12, 2023, 12:43:58 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 12:45:15 PM
Hackett is one of the more realistic OC candidates, meaning Rodgers is very realistic.
This is dependent on him not retiring of course.
The problem with Rodgers is the amount of money GB have to eat if they trade or cut him, so if he really wants out they'd have to find a way to fix that and I don't know how they could.
Post by: Jumbo on January 12, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
The problem with Rodgers is the amount of money GB have to eat if they trade or cut him, so if he really wants out they'd have to find a way to fix that and I don't know how they could.
If they restructure his contract the deal can become much more tradeable
Post by: steves850 on January 12, 2023, 12:46:17 PM
Jimmy G should move all the way down the list if our scheme is different (which is likely will be)
I haven't watched a ton of Jimmy G but assume he's a capable QB, which is better than anyone we've fielded said Fitz.
Scanning the free agent options, I'm not blown away by any of the other options. I'm happy to be sold on someone that's realistic.
I don't want Rodgers.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 12:48:53 PM
He's a 25 year old MVP.
So you're looking at minimum the Watson trade
Which is what? 3 1sts a 3rd and a bunch of other excrement. Plus at least 50 million a year
For a guy that's always hurt, and who in my opinion is at high risk or having his career derailed very early by injuries.
I suppose if you want to make the argument that Lamar is going all in on a window the next 3 maybe 4 years. That you can do so.
I think your team is in purgatory at that point. And I think going all in when you have the Bills and Phins possibly st their peak not the smartest
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 12:49:54 PM
The problem with Rodgers is the amount of money GB have to eat if they trade or cut him, so if he really wants out they'd have to find a way to fix that and I don't know how they could.
The alternative is what? Them playing him, still paying him, and giving up on Love?
No matter what they do they're absolutely fucked
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 12:50:11 PM
It's Lamar, Carr or bust.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 12:50:14 PM
The alternative is what? Them playing him and giving up on Love?
No matter what they do they're absolutely fucked
Jordan Love stinks
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 12:52:47 PM
If they restructure his contract the deal can become much more tradeable
How though? They've already paid him a massive bonus and spread the cap hit over future years. If they trade or cut him that cap charge accelerates, I don't see how they can restructure that as the cash has already gone.
Post by: steves850 on January 12, 2023, 12:54:11 PM
So you're looking at minimum the Watson trade
Which is what? 3 1sts a 3rd and a bunch of other excrement. Plus at least 50 million a year
For a guy that's always hurt, and who in my opinion is at high risk or having his career derailed very early by injuries.
I suppose if you want to make the argument that Lamar is going all in on a window the next 3 maybe 4 years. That you can do so.
I think your team is in purgatory at that point. And I think going all in when you have the Bills and Phins possibly st their peak not the smartest
Lamar's injury history:
2015 - Jackson missed 1 game with an ankle injury as a freshman
2020 - Jackson missed practice week 5 with a knee. Played in the game that week.
1/16/21 - Jackson suffered a concussion on the last play of the 3rd quarter, lost the game.
9/29/21 - Jackson played in week 4 but missed practice due to a lower back injury
12/12/21 - Jackson suffered a sprained ankle in week 14, missed the rest of the season
12/4/22 - Sprained PCL, still out.
You're selling an oft injured player which isn't true.
Post by: Coach K on January 12, 2023, 01:01:25 PM
Not completely. Derek Carr isn't a player that excites me greatly, he doesn't give me the same feeling in my pants as Q-Aaron. But if it comes to pass then I can be sold on why it's a better idea.Best defensive ranking hes had his tenure. 20th overall
Also if you look at yards allowed over his entire tenure I'm almost certain raiders are dead last
I view him as Romo a good but not elite guy who takes way too much of a bad rap for playing with awful secondaries that asked them to carry the team
Hes at worst the 12th to 15th best qb and thats enough for me .
He just needs to he a B+/A- elite game manager here tbh
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Jordan Love stinks
Regardless
Rodgers isn't the future there. They have a year to see what Love can do then they have to address the QB position.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 12, 2023, 01:09:56 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 01:10:01 PM
Lamar's injury history:
2015 - Jackson missed 1 game with an ankle injury as a freshman
2020 - Jackson missed practice week 5 with a knee. Played in the game that week.
1/16/21 - Jackson suffered a concussion on the last play of the 3rd quarter, lost the game.
9/29/21 - Jackson played in week 4 but missed practice due to a lower back injury
12/12/21 - Jackson suffered a sprained ankle in week 14, missed the rest of the season
12/4/22 - Sprained PCL, still out.
You're selling an oft injured player which isn't true.
He's missed 10 games the last 2 years
And is fully dependent on his incredibly aggressive running style
He's 26 and it's a bit of a gamble depending on him having a high degree of success into his 30s.
Most importantly this is a guy who barely eclipsed 3000 passing yards once in his career, when top QB's can have around 5000.
Imagine having the highest paid QB in nfl history who annually has about just over half the passing yards of the league leader
Post by: steves850 on January 12, 2023, 01:16:04 PM
No idea if this guy is reliable.
Not exactly groundbreaking information but confirmation of what we already know.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 01:17:09 PM
He's missed 10 games the last 2 yearsDo we need to worry about him that much in his 30's? Lamar could give us a good 5-year window, and after that, maybe we let him walk.
And is fully dependent on his incredibly aggressive running style
He's 26 and it's a bit of a gamble depending on him having a high degree of success into his 30s.
Most importantly this is a guy who barely eclipsed 3000 passing yards once in his career, when top QB's have around 5000
The injuries, draft capital, and salary are all concerning. I was all in on a Watson trade before the allegations, but that's because we had the #2 pick in the draft which was worth as much as multiple 1st-round picks. This is a little tougher since Lamar is the type of QB that you would think doesn't age well. But at 26, I don't think we have to worry about that yet.
I don't really care about the passing stats. They are good enough. You get Lamar because he can run. And Garrett is better than any WR he has ever had.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 01:20:11 PM
https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1613589771409920046 (https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1613589771409920046)
No idea if this guy is reliable.
Not exactly groundbreaking information but confirmation of what we already know.
Google says this guy's a nobody
And reddit says he's a shitty local patriots reporter that got fired and now is essentially a blogger
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 01:23:05 PM
Do we need to worry about him that much in his 30's? Lamar could give us a good 5-year window, and after that, maybe we let him walk.
The injuries, draft capital, and salary are all concerning. I was all in on a Watson trade before the allegations, but that's because we had the #2 pick in the draft which was worth as much as multiple 1st-round picks. This is a little tougher since Lamar is the type of QB that you would think doesn't age well. But at 26, I don't think we have to worry about that yet.
I don't really care about the passing stats. They are good enough. You get Lamar because he can run. And Garrett is better than any WR he has ever had.
Zach Wilson's career nfl passing stats converted to a 17 game season is almost exactly the same as the number of passing yards in Lamars best season ever.
I get that the guy is an electric athlete, I'm just not a fan of selling our soul for a superstar athlete
I'd rather see us offer the bears a 2nd for Fields or something if we're going that route
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 01:30:39 PM
He's missed 10 games the last 2 years
And is fully dependent on his incredibly aggressive running style
He's 26 and it's a bit of a gamble depending on him having a high degree of success into his 30s.
Most importantly this is a guy who barely eclipsed 3000 passing yards once in his career, when top QB's can have around 5000.
Imagine having the highest paid QB in nfl history who annually has about just over half the passing yards of the league leader
So let me get this straight. You've already written off Zach, but now we have the chance to trade/sign for a former MVP who's still in his prime....and you're bitching about that?
You really are the worst kind of fan.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 01:30:52 PM
Google says this guy's a nobody
Dov Kleiman is a pseudonym.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 01:31:07 PM
Zach Wilson's career nfl passing stats converted to a 17 game season is almost exactly the same as the number of passing yards in Lamars best season ever.
I get that the guy is an electric athlete, I'm just not a fan of selling our soul for a superstar athlete
I'd rather see us offer the bears a 2nd for Fields or something if we're going that route
Lamar can make all the throws...Fields is a bum.
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2023, 01:34:10 PM
https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1613589771409920046 (https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1613589771409920046)
No idea if this guy is reliable.
Not exactly groundbreaking information but confirmation of what we already know.
It's a guy called Billy Spikes who has tried to make a brand for himself by aggregating and retweeting others' stories. Doesn't mean that what he's saying isn't true, but he has no idea whether it is or not.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 01:36:13 PM
So let me get this straight. You've already written off Zach, but now we have the chance to trade/sign for a former MVP who's still in his prime....and you're bitching about that?
You really are the worst kind of fan.
I'd rather see this team blow the best QB contract in nfl history out of the water to get Carr.
Instead of making Lamar the highest paid QB of all time, with probably the most guaranteed money of all time, while basically giving up on at least the next 3 drafts.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 12, 2023, 01:38:05 PM
Quote
https://twitter.com/derekcarrqb/status/1613560895011184641
Carr says goodbye to Raiders
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 01:38:57 PM
I'd rather see this team blow the best QB contract in nfl history out of the water to get Carr.
Instead of making Lamar the highest paid QB of all time, with probably the most guaranteed money of all time, while basically giving up on at least the next 3 drafts.
I'm fine with Carr too.
Either one of these guys puts us in the AFCCG next season. Barring any unforeseen circumstances.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 01:39:23 PM
Carr says goodbye to Raiders
scroll up
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 02:15:02 PM
Zach Wilson's career nfl passing stats converted to a 17 game season is almost exactly the same as the number of passing yards in Lamars best season ever.Lamar has never played more than 15 games, so if you're saying 17 games of Zach as a passer is as good as Lamar in 15 games, that's not great. And those weren't injuries - it was COVID and being inactive after clinching.
I get that the guy is an electric athlete, I'm just not a fan of selling our soul for a superstar athlete
I'd rather see us offer the bears a 2nd for Fields or something if we're going that route
You know that Lamar is probably the best rushing QB in NFL history, right?
If you get Lamar (or Fields), it's because you want to use them a ton as a runner. If Fields only costs a 2nd and Lamar costs two 1sts and more and a big contract, then I prefer Fields and the ability to use salary/draft resources elsewhere, but I don't think Fields will be available, and if he is, I think he costs more than that.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 02:21:41 PM
Lamar has never played more than 15 games, so if you're saying 17 games of Zach as a passer is as good as Lamar in 15 games, that's not great. And those weren't injuries - it was COVID and being inactive after clinching.
You know that Lamar is probably the best rushing QB in NFL history, right?
If you get Lamar (or Fields), it's because you want to use them a ton as a runner. If Fields only costs a 2nd and Lamar costs two 1sts and more and a big contract, then I prefer Fields and the ability to use salary/draft resources elsewhere, but I don't think Fields will be available, and if he is, I think he costs more than that.
Lamar for 2 1sts I can get on board with.
But I would not expect him to get traded for less than Watson. And he's been a stickler on his contract situation, especially when it comes to having virtually his entire contract guaranteed.
Dudes gonna be real expensive. Carr is my go to, unquestionably.
And I have no freaking idea on the Fields situation. Just that the Bears will have some major decisions to make coming up
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 02:22:00 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
Justin Fields can't pass. Lamar can.
This.
Some of you guys overthink yourselves into having strokes.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 02:33:11 PM
Lamar for 2 1sts I can get on board with.Lamar is a tough guy to evaluate because of his injury concerns.
But I would not expect him to get traded for less than Watson. And he's been a stickler on his contract situation, especially when it comes to having virtually his entire contract guaranteed.
Dudes gonna be real expensive. Carr is my go to, unquestionably.
And I have no freaking idea on the Fields situation. Just that the Bears will have some major decisions to make coming up
I think Carr will be a guy who gets paid way too much money and be overpaid for the level of pay he will provide. You don't normally see top-20 QBs hit free agency. This is basically Kirk Cousins 2.0, except Carr is 2 years older. That's what appeals to me about Garoppolo if he's cheaper, but durability is a major concern. I'm fine with spending up on getting Carr, especially since it likely won't cost draft picks, but he will likely be very expensive for the level of production we will get.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 02:33:57 PM
This.Better than "let's just tank the season if we don't get Carr."
Some of you guys overthink yourselves into having strokes.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 12, 2023, 02:34:31 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/BdIq3WzrAC4AAAAM/holy-jacket.gif)
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 02:35:52 PM
Better than "let's just tank the season if we don't get Carr."
not really
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 02:36:56 PM
Lamar is a tough guy to evaluate because of his injury concerns.
I think Carr will be a guy who gets paid way too much money and be overpaid for the level of pay he will provide. You don't normally see top-20 QBs hit free agency. This is basically Kirk Cousins 2.0, except Carr is 2 years older. That's what appeals to me about Garoppolo if he's cheaper, but durability is a major concern. I'm fine with spending up on getting Carr, especially since it likely won't cost draft picks, but he will likely be very expensive for the level of production we will get.
Let's just simplify a Lamar trade and say the Ravens only get 3 1sts for him.
I don't think it'll be difficult for Carr + 3 1st round picks to offer more production than Lamar. And that's assuming Lamar is completely healthy
And again Lamars contract situation is going to be really freaking challenging. Probably even more so since his rate would surely go up to be forced to spend his career here.
If Lamar was a UFA and we could simply break the bank to get him fine. But to give him The greatest nfl contract that isn't a decade long ever and cripple ourselves in the several drafts
Can't do it
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 02:37:46 PM
Hire Carr's pastor and we're in!
(https://media.tenor.com/BdIq3WzrAC4AAAAM/holy-jacket.gif)
Candlelight vigil at metlife stadium where we all pray Carr comes here?
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 02:38:50 PM
Let's just simplify a Lamar trade and say the Ravens only get 3 1sts for him.
I don't think it'll be difficult for Carr + 3 1st round picks to offer more production than Lamar. And that's assuming Lamar is completely healthy
And again Lamars contract situation is going to be really freaking challenging. Probably even more so since his rate would surely go up to be forced to spend his career here.
if we're trading for Lamar, the contract will already be agreed upon.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 02:41:18 PM
if we're trading for Lamar, the contract will already be agreed upon.
Yes the contract will be negotiated with the Jets
I'm saying Lamar already wants to be paid like a football god. Once he finds out he's got to spend the rest of his career here, he's going to REALLY want to be paid like freaking God
Post by: steves850 on January 12, 2023, 02:43:12 PM
Let's just simplify a Lamar trade and say the Ravens only get 3 1sts for him.
I don't think it'll be difficult for Carr + 3 1st round picks to offer more production than Lamar. And that's assuming Lamar is completely healthy
And again Lamars contract situation is going to be really freaking challenging. Probably even more so since his rate would surely go up to be forced to spend his career here.
If Lamar was a UFA and we could simply break the bank to get him fine. But to give him The greatest nfl contract that isn't a decade long ever and cripple ourselves in the several drafts
Can't do it
What? I really question how your head actually works. Any QB that turns the Jets into a winning franchise will be a fuckin God in the greatest City in the world. These elite athletes are super competitive and will always bet on themselves.
At the very least, he'll make generational money and live in NYC.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 02:44:11 PM
I'm saying Lamar already wants to be paid like a football god. Once he finds out he's got to spend the rest of his career here, he's going to REALLY want to be paid like freaking God
what are you basing this ridiculous opinion on?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2023, 03:07:10 PM
I'm saying Lamar already wants to be paid like a football god.
How is he not?
He won the Heisman, he won an MVP before the age of 25, and he's arguably the best running QB of all-time.
Gotta pay to play.
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 03:10:28 PM
Barring any unforeseen circumstances.
Hi, are you new here?
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 06:14:25 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 12, 2023, 07:26:38 PM
I think he's learned too many things from Favre because he's definitely giving off the same "I want my own locker room away from the team" vibes, and the whole part about him not making the extra effort to do any extra work with his WRs until Matt LaFleur mandated it didn't help that.
Post by: MBGreen on January 12, 2023, 07:32:31 PM
I really don't want Rodgers. I don't think he's going to come here and be a positive presence in the locker room.Agreed
I think he's learned too many things from Favre because he's definitely giving off the same "I want my own locker room away from the team" vibes, and the whole part about him not making the extra effort to do any extra work with his WRs until Matt LaFleur mandated it didn't help that.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 07:36:03 PM
Gotta wonder if the Raiders will Raider and hold on to Carr past the guarantee date in the hopes someone will trade for him anyway.
It depends
Are the Raiders serious about Brady or Jimmy G?
Because signing either with Carr guaranteed all that money is playing with serious fire
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2023, 09:54:25 PM
https://twitter.com/ColinCowherd/status/1613731754011160577?s=19
Obviously he's speculating since nothing can be in the works yet.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 12, 2023, 10:00:52 PM
It's a guy called Billy Spikes who has tried to make a brand for himself by aggregating and retweeting others' stories. Doesn't mean that what he's saying isn't true, but he has no idea whether it is or not.
uStadium better
Post by: mj2sexay on January 12, 2023, 10:26:38 PM
Favre literally wanted to go to one team and got sent here instead.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 12, 2023, 11:06:47 PM
I'd take Rodgers if he wanted com.
Pause
Post by: dcm1602 on January 12, 2023, 11:08:28 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2023, 11:40:08 PM
Would anyone rather see Zach Wilson instead of Rodgers if the Carr/Jimmy G sweepstakes don't go the direction we wantI do wonder how much the OC choice is going to be tailored to finding a guy who can turn Zach into a decent QB.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 13, 2023, 12:24:20 AM
I do wonder how much the OC choice is going to be tailored to finding a guy who can turn Zach into a decent QB.
Assuming the plan is for Zach to remain on the roster
I'd hope the plan is to get an OC who will worry about the offense
And ideally bringing in an experienced QB coach (ie someone like Hackett whose stock is down) to worry about Zach while potentially contributing as pass game coordinator or something
During a full on rebuild or year 1 of drafting a young QB you can cater to them and build around them
But with how long Zach has been here and what he's shown, that's a horrible idea for our OC to be built around a guy whose a GOAT bust
Post by: Jumbo on January 13, 2023, 02:40:14 AM
Cowherd thinks Carr comes here.
https://twitter.com/ColinCowherd/status/1613731754011160577?s=19
Obviously he's speculating since nothing can be in the works yet.
🧲🚪
Post by: ScotlandJet on January 13, 2023, 03:16:29 AM
🧲🚪
This gets me excited! Please let this happen.
Post by: Badger on January 13, 2023, 06:03:39 AM
This gets me excited! Please let this happen.
Post by: Badger on January 13, 2023, 07:37:29 AM
https://twitter.com/rshields37/status/1613876049036599299?s=19
Post by: Johnny English on January 13, 2023, 07:42:22 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 13, 2023, 07:55:20 AM
You can't tie up the position and the money in a Carr/Jackson if you honestly plan to give Zach the job. Sitting behind Jimmy till he's hurt or Aaron till he retires is reasonable.
I just saw Jackson said his knee is "unstable" and that's worrisome. Carr, to me, is the best option for this team, given the window we have.
Post by: MBGreen on January 13, 2023, 08:15:00 AM
If Zach is the long-term plan, then you go after Garrapolo (or Rodgers if he's actually available). If Zach isn't the real plan, then you go after Carr (or Lamar if he's actually available).
You can't tie up the position and the money in a Carr/Jackson if you honestly plan to give Zach the job. Sitting behind Jimmy till he's hurt or Aaron till he retires is reasonable.
I just saw Jackson said his knee is "unstable" and that's worrisome. Carr, to me, is the best option for this team, given the window we have.
Or you can treat Zach like the Falcons treated M.Schaub. Develop him, and then ransom him off down the road to the highest bidder
Post by: Johnny English on January 13, 2023, 08:17:24 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 13, 2023, 08:20:24 AM
Garoppolo isn't signing a stopgap deal if he leaves SF, someone will give him a long term contract because he has the ability to take a team deep. So if you want to sign him then we're doing it with the expectation of him being your starter for the next three years, and hoping he can stay healthy.
Jimmy G has an ability to take one of the best teams in the league deep. Those type of teams don’t usually have a QB. Pretty much any situation he goes to outside of SF will be a downgrade.
Post by: Johnny English on January 13, 2023, 08:24:26 AM
Jimmy G has an ability to take one of the best teams in the league deep. Those type of teams don’t usually have a QB. Pretty much any situation he goes to outside of SF will be a downgrade.
Sure. But absent any star QBs on the market, teams will convince themselves that they can build around him.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 13, 2023, 08:40:35 AM
I'm pretty any seasoned veteran OC could watch one season of Kyle Shanahan's offense and call a better version of it than LaFleur did for us.
We did not lose that scheme because it's not what he was running. We couldn't run the football. We didn't feature the backs or the tight ends in the passing game.
Saleh missed badly with that hire and he can't do that this time.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 13, 2023, 09:25:08 AM
Garoppolo isn't signing a stopgap deal if he leaves SF, someone will give him a long term contract because he has the ability to take a team deep. So if you want to sign him then we're doing it with the expectation of him being your starter for the next three years, and hoping he can stay healthy.
We wouldn't be signing Jimmy as a stop gap, per se. If you sign him to 3 years you have to do it with the expectation that he's going to play 30-40 games for you. That means whoever is his backup has to be a guy you actually believe can win stretches of games for you.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 13, 2023, 09:27:06 AM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 13, 2023, 09:33:55 AM
Zach is a developmental backup. He is not stopping us from adding someone like Derek Carr.
My thinking is, if you bring in Carr or Jackson, you're doing it for a longer term (5+ years). Zach will be going into year 3. The following season you have to decide whether to pick him up for year 5. I was going to ask if it made sense to carry both, but now writing it out, I guess it's not as big a deal as I was thinking.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 13, 2023, 09:44:39 AM
Darnold and Bakers 5th years were regretful and they were both far better
Post by: bojanglesman on January 13, 2023, 09:45:08 AM
My thinking is, if you bring in Carr or Jackson, you're doing it for a longer term (5+ years). Zach will be going into year 3. The following season you have to decide whether to pick him up for year 5. I was going to ask if it made sense to carry both, but now writing it out, I guess it's not as big a deal as I was thinking.
Zach will likely end up playing again at some point(s) due to starting QB injury. It's hard for a QB to play all 17 games in this league. If he plays OK, maybe some other team sees him as a diamond in the rough and gives us more than a late round pick for him. Or maybe he becomes a comp pick for us when he leaves. None of us can deny he has all the physical tools to be a really good QB in the NFL. Above the neck is the issue.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 13, 2023, 09:50:26 AM
Darnold and Bakers 5th years were regretful and they were both far better
Sam Darnold was not that much better than Wilson.
Post by: Badger on January 13, 2023, 09:58:38 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 13, 2023, 10:23:36 AM
If the Jets choose to try and trade for Carr, how much could we expect to give up?It will be interesting. On one hand, he'll have demand, but on the other, he has a no trade clause and he has an out early in the off-season.
Plus, I wonder if he has any consideration of not hamstring his new team. In theory, since he has a no trade clause, he can force the Raiders hand on where he goes if he really wants to. He could say "Jets or bust" and the Jets could low-ball him because it's either that or eating a shitload of money and getting nothing. I doubt it happens that way, but I don't know why it couldn't. Why not allow your new team to keep their picks and use them to support....you? Is he really going to get much different of contract than he has on the open market? I'm probably wrong.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 13, 2023, 01:30:32 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 13, 2023, 01:34:18 PM
If the Jets choose to try and trade for Carr, how much could we expect to give up?
a future 3rd that becomes a 2nd if we make the playoffs
Post by: bojanglesman on January 13, 2023, 01:37:16 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 13, 2023, 01:40:03 PM
a future 3rd that becomes a 2nd if we make the playoffs
Sold. Get'er done JD
Post by: dcm1602 on January 13, 2023, 04:54:05 PM
Where the rubber meets the road is whether Carr thinks he can beat his current contract as a free agent. If he can, why would he agree to be traded anywhere? Unless he's dying to have a team before Feb 15th, just wait, be a free agent and go where you want. Unless the Raiders somehow play chicken and threaten to keep him?
This is what I was saying in the other thread
If Raiders threatens/actually is willing to keep him that changes things
As for why Carr would get traded instead of waiting to get cut.
Potentially you could have some teams dip out not wanting to risk it for Carr (and then ultimately end up with nothing) so instead they either resign their own guys or focus elsewhere.
I suppose there's also a possibility Carr gets injured working out or any other bizarre circumstances.
Generally I'd think he most benefits from UFA, but the threat the Raiders changes all
Post by: bojanglesman on January 14, 2023, 10:31:41 AM
1) Lamar + giving up a excrement-ton of premium picks + giving a huge contract
2) Rodgers + giving up a excrement-ton of premium picks + taking on huge contract
3) Carr + giving a big contract
4) Jimmy G + giving a big contract
I think it would be between 1 and 3. Lamar is the better option straight up, but he would get an even bigger contract than Carr and would require us to give up the moon and stars in the draft. Rodgers is better than Carr but he's older, requires lots of picks, and too much drama. I could get past the drama if he wins though. I don't trust Jimmy G to finish half a season.
I don't think Lamar will be an option anyway because he won't be allowed to walk.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 10:47:18 AM
If I'm asked to choose between the following, hypothetically:
1) Lamar + giving up a excrement-ton of premium picks + giving a huge contract
2) Rodgers + giving up a excrement-ton of premium picks + taking on huge contract
3) Carr + giving a big contract
4) Jimmy G + giving a big contract
I think it would be between 1 and 3. Lamar is the better option straight up, but he would get an even bigger contract than Carr and would require us to give up the moon and stars in the draft. Rodgers is better than Carr but he's older, requires lots of picks, and too much drama. I could get past the drama if he wins though. I don't trust Jimmy G to finish half a season.
I don't think Lamar will be an option anyway because he won't be allowed to walk.
Rodgers isn't requiring a excrement ton of premium picks.
Honestly I'm not even sure he would require picks, taking cap space off the diasaster for the Packers would be his cost.
There's no way you're giving up more than a 4th for Rodgers max
Dare I say Rodgers could be like that cap dump with the Browns a few years ago. Potentially having the Packers giving us a pick to save them from cap hell, and I don't think we'd even be willing to take on that kind of cap being were in win now mode
Post by: bojanglesman on January 14, 2023, 11:17:15 AM
Rodgers isn't requiring a excrement ton of premium picks.Most sites I've seen suggest multiple high draft picks in trade scenarios. I'm no expert but I haven't read anything suggesting him being a salary dump. His contract isn't that bad for a top QB. I think we'd basically get him for $55 million per year for 2 years plus another 2 if we wanted. That's a lot, but he's Aaron Rodgers.
Honestly I'm not even sure he would require picks, taking cap space off the diasaster for the Packers would be his cost.
There's no way you're giving up more than a 4th for Rodgers max
Dare I say Rodgers could be like that cap dump with the Browns a few years ago. Potentially having the Packers giving us a pick to save them from cap hell, and I don't think we'd even be willing to take on that kind of cap being were in win now mode
Post by: bojanglesman on January 14, 2023, 11:24:23 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 11:28:41 AM
I have no idea what serious analyst are suggesting his value is, but Rodgers isn't worth close to that
Post by: bojanglesman on January 14, 2023, 11:34:57 AM
Okay I just saw someone reccomend the floor for Rodgers is a 1st and I can say the Packers can go freak themselves for anything even remotely close to thatLast year was an anomaly. He had an inferior cast around him. And he still put up good stats. Look at his stats before last year. Otherworldly. 30-40 TDs, 4k yards, single digit INTs. Most every year. I think 2022 was an outlier. Other teams will see that.
I have no idea what serious analyst are suggesting his value is, but Rodgers isn't worth close to that
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 11:38:56 AM
Him being an expensive 39 year old whose play has dipped off and has seriously mulling retirement is my problem I think the odds of Rodgers playing 4 more seasons has to be close to zero
Post by: bojanglesman on January 14, 2023, 11:40:18 AM
His plays not my issueHe isn't my top scenario, but I'd be stoked if he was here. When was the last time we could say "we have no worries at QB".
Him being an expensive 39 year old whose play has dipped off and has seriously mulling retirement is my problem I think the odds of Rodgers playing 4 more seasons has to be close to zero
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 11:52:07 AM
He isn't my top scenario, but I'd be stoked if he was here. When was the last time we could say "we have no worries at QB".
I don't think Rodgers is a bad move. He's a great consolation prize if Carr blows up and Jimmy G is off the table
But for major compensation absolutely freak no.
For me a 3rd is the most we could give up for Rodgers where I wouldn't hate it
Post by: MBGreen on January 14, 2023, 12:24:58 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 14, 2023, 12:41:13 PM
I'm not giving anything higher than a 4th round pick for Aaron Rodgers....fight me.Then you don't want Rodgers.
Post by: MBGreen on January 14, 2023, 12:42:09 PM
Then you don't want Rodgers.That is correct
Post by: bojanglesman on January 14, 2023, 01:04:18 PM
Post by: Gorilla on January 14, 2023, 01:10:28 PM
I'm not giving anything higher than a 4th round pick for Aaron Rodgers....fight me.
With age and contract, I'm with you. Dude is a pipe dream, imo.
Post by: MBGreen on January 14, 2023, 01:12:02 PM
With age and contract, I'm with you. Dude is a pipe dream, imo.I honestly don't think he'd want to come here anyway. He's already said he's interested in going to Miami...who knows if he was serious.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 14, 2023, 01:31:44 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 14, 2023, 01:42:54 PM
Have Lamar on speed dial, JD.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 14, 2023, 02:25:41 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 02:27:55 PM
I’m gonna say something completely random but this a message board so freak it. Would you trade Lamar for Quinnen straight up?
Would I trade Lamar for Quinnen? Definitely not
Would I trade Quinnen for Lamar? Definitely yes
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 02:30:05 PM
Sean Payton just said on Fox Sports he doesn't like what's going on in Baltimore regarding Lamar...and doesn't believe he's a raven next season..
Have Lamar on speed dial, JD.
The guys actively interviewing for HC jobs.
Albeit most of them will be in places with a QB (ie Denver)
But this is basically tampering
Post by: MBGreen on January 14, 2023, 03:00:50 PM
I’m gonna say something completely random but this a message board so freak it. Would you trade Lamar for Quinnen straight up?Straight up? Absolutely
I love Quinnen like a son, but Lamar is an NFL MVP..and plays the game's most important position. .
Post by: Gorilla on January 14, 2023, 03:03:32 PM
I’m gonna say something completely random but this a message board so freak it. Would you trade Lamar for Quinnen straight up?
Straight up, in a fantasy world? Yes.
Only players I would not trade straight up for Lamar would be a superior franchise QB.
QB is absurdly more important than any other position.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 03:53:14 PM
Post by: Badger on January 14, 2023, 04:01:12 PM
The guys actively interviewing for HC jobs.But not technically tampering since he's not employed by a team.
Albeit most of them will be in places with a QB (ie Denver)
But this is basically tampering
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 14, 2023, 04:02:12 PM
I’m gonna say something completely random but this a message board so freak it. Would you trade Lamar for Quinnen straight up?Quinnen would be an easy trade for positional value and upcoming contract.
Sauce is the more interesting guy to ask about. We have Sauce under contract for 3 more years at a bargain, and he's already elite.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 04:03:57 PM
But not technically tampering since he's not employed by a team.
I'd assume not
But if he gets a HC job I wonder if he can get accused of tampering
Especially if Baltimore doesn't end up bringing Lamar back
Post by: MBGreen on January 14, 2023, 04:19:37 PM
I'd assume notYou can't be accused for tampering when you're not employed with an NFL team....and you can't defer the accusation either.
But if he gets a HC job I wonder if he can get accused of tampering
Especially if Baltimore doesn't end up bringing Lamar back
Post by: dcm1602 on January 14, 2023, 04:34:55 PM
You can't be accused for tampering when you're not employed with an NFL team....and you can't defer the accusation either.
Sounds loosely kind of like a loophole though no?
Essentially have someone tamper right before you hire them
Post by: MBGreen on January 14, 2023, 05:38:55 PM
Sounds loosely kind of like a loophole though no?You're either quite stupid or you have an overactive imagination.
Essentially have someone tamper right before you hire them
Post by: dcm1602 on January 15, 2023, 09:08:29 AM
Quote
Hard to start this Carr in the cold: Derek Carr could be one of the names on the Jets' quarterback wish list, but there's something you should know about him: He's not a very good cold-weather quarterback, and that's kind of an important deal in New York.
When the game-time temperature is 40 degrees or lower, Carr has a 2-9 record, with 13 touchdowns, 13 interceptions and a 59% completion rate, per ESPN Stats & Info.
If those more knowledgeable could comment on whether Carr and the elements is reason for concern
This just seems like like an arbitrary number
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 15, 2023, 10:02:53 AM
Via Cimini
If those more knowledgeable could comment on whether Carr and the elements is reason for concern
This just seems like like an arbitrary number
Yes, this should be cause for some concern.
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/cold_truth_las_vegas_qb_derek_carr_stinks_in_freezing_temperatures/s1_13132_38281312
Post by: MBGreen on January 15, 2023, 10:11:35 AM
Yes, this should be cause for some concern.
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/cold_truth_las_vegas_qb_derek_carr_stinks_in_freezing_temperatures/s1_13132_38281312
throw all of our resources at bringing in Lamar Jackson. Hopefully he wants out of Baltimore.
Post by: Badger on January 15, 2023, 10:15:38 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 15, 2023, 10:36:46 AM
I'm not writing it off but we need to compare the same set of stats with the other QBs who might be available before drawing any conclusion.
Honestly I'd like to to see the same stats for all QB's
I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine QB's do worse in shitty weather and teams that play in shitty weather regularly have historically been known to play better defense.
Post by: Coach K on January 16, 2023, 07:25:16 AM
Sounds loosely kind of like a loophole though no?This isn't a SVU episode
Essentially have someone tamper right before you hire them
Payton isn't employed by an NFL team and gets paid for his opinion to tbe media lol
Post by: Coach K on January 16, 2023, 07:26:06 AM
Post by: Coach K on January 16, 2023, 07:26:46 AM
I'm not writing it off but we need to compare the same set of stats with the other QBs who might be available before drawing any conclusion.Playing in freez8ng cold is hard for qbs in general I'll spare you the time
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 07:56:28 AM
I'll be praying hard for this to happen....if the Ravens go "non-exclusive tag" w/ Lamar, JD should be first inline with a blank check.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2023, 08:19:02 AM
Hard pass for me. My preference is Rodgers > Carr > Garoppollo > the rest, including Jackson.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 08:24:12 AM
Ravens fans seem fairly unbothered by the idea of losing Lamar. Harbaugh had to completely rebuild the offense to suit what he can and can't do, and mobility is the first thing you lose - it's no coincidence that the guys who stay good late in their career are the pocket passers. Paying an absolute fuckton of money to have to completely rebuild the offense around a guy I don't trust to be good seems like a bad idea - I'm not saying we couldn't do it, but it seems like it will be harder to make succeed and have a bigger cost if it doesn't.
Hard pass for me. My preference is Rodgers > Carr > Garoppollo > the rest, including Jackson.
Rodgers only makes sense if he's a stopgap. But it's a moot point, because i'll eat my hat if he signs here.
Jackson can make every throw from the pocket, he's proven this on multiple occasions.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2023, 08:32:21 AM
Rodgers only makes sense if he's a stopgap. But it's a moot point, because i'll eat my hat if he signs here.
Jackson can make every throw from the pocket, he's proven this on multiple occasions.
I agree, I don't think Rodgers leaves GB unless it's to retire.
Jackson isn't very good at throwing to the outside. You can argue whether it's chicken or egg - do they not have good outside threats because he doesn't have the touch and vision to make those throws consistently, or does he not make them because they don't have good outside receivers? - but it's inarguable that he doesn't have a full range of throws in his arsenal, and that he's overdependent on running the ball. He's missed the last few games of both of the last two seasons with injury, and he refused to even travel to support his teammates yesterday.
I've zero interest in giving him a big contract. I think there's a decent chance that whoever signs Lamar ends up with a big old albatross around their neck.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 08:52:32 AM
I agree, I don't think Rodgers leaves GB unless it's to retire.
Jackson isn't very good at throwing to the outside. You can argue whether it's chicken or egg - do they not have good outside threats because he doesn't have the touch and vision to make those throws consistently, or does he not make them because they don't have good outside receivers? - but it's inarguable that he doesn't have a full range of throws in his arsenal, and that he's overdependent on running the ball. He's missed the last few games of both of the last two seasons with injury, and he refused to even travel to support his teammates yesterday.
I've zero interest in giving him a big contract. I think there's a decent chance that whoever signs Lamar ends up with a big old albatross around their neck.
He can make the throws outside. Bateman is his best wideout currently, but he's also had an injury-riddled season.
Yes, he's a mobile QB, that's part of his game. He's worth the risk and more.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2023, 09:08:17 AM
He can make the throws outside. Bateman is his best wideout currently, but he's also had an injury-riddled season.
Yes, he's a mobile QB, that's part of his game. He's worth the risk and more.
Tyler Huntley's passing stats from yesterday (226 yards, 58.2%, 2-1, 92.0) would be Lamar's best playoff passing performance ever.
I'm not interested in hearing about how Justin Fields is just a glorified running back, and then in the next breath that an increasingly injured Lamar Jackson who's so lacking in leadership skill that he can't be bothered going to Cleveland to support his teammates is worth the full bag.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 16, 2023, 09:15:32 AM
Not sure how trade comp and salary would compare, but I think I'd prefer Carr over Lamar.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 09:23:32 AM
Tyler Huntley's passing stats from yesterday (226 yards, 58.2%, 2-1, 92.0) would be Lamar's best playoff passing performance ever.
I'm not interested in hearing about how Justin Fields is just a glorified running back, and then in the next breath that an increasingly injured Lamar Jackson who's so lacking in leadership skill that he can't be bothered going to Cleveland to support his teammates is worth the full bag.
Justin Fields couldn't hit the red side of a barn. Lamar is a former NFL MVP. Are we really having this conversation?
lack of leadership? He's in a contract dispute with his team. He probably wants out.
And they were in Cincy, not Cleveland.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 09:25:06 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2023, 09:32:05 AM
As to the MVP argument, if you'd given the 2015 MVP a massive multi year contract you'd have regretted it badly the following year and every year after that. It isn't a lock.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 09:44:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yoz2F9v.jpg)
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2023, 09:55:22 AM
Here are Lamar's career stats, JE. I even pointed out the important numbers as to the reason why you bring him in....oh, and he's only 26 years old.
(https://i.imgur.com/yoz2F9v.jpg)
Now look at the trend lines in that dataset you posted. They do not say "just hitting his prime", they're describing a downturn from his peak in every meaningful category.
The comparison I made with the 2015 MVP wasn't accidental. Cam was a better player in his MVP season at 26 years old than Jackson is, ever was or likely ever will be, but the year after that award he fell apart and was never the same again.
Just go get Carr and we can all be happy.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 09:57:47 AM
Now look at the trend lines in that dataset you posted. They do not say "just hitting his prime", they're describing a downturn from his peak in every meaningful category.
The comparison I made with the 2015 MVP wasn't accidental. Cam was a better player in his MVP season at 26 years old than Jackson is, ever was or likely ever will be, but the year after that award he fell apart and was never the same again.
Just go get Carr and we can all be happy.
I'll take Lamar or Carr. But now i'm leaning towards Lamar because your misguided unhappiness is hilarious.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2023, 10:01:50 AM
I'll take Lamar or Carr. But now i'm leaning towards Lamar because your misguided unhappiness is hilarious.
Translated: "your statistical evidence is inconvenient something something tank more".
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 10:03:03 AM
Translated: "your statistical evidence in inconvenient something something tank more".
how is it inconvenient?
he's not declining...he just turned 26 lol
you said yourself he doesn't have a lot of weapons outside of Andrews and his HBs. Those are stellar numbers.
Plus the Ravens have only missed the playoffs once since 2018.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2023, 10:06:05 AM
how is it inconvenient?
he's not declining...he just turned 26 lol
you said yourself he doesn't have a lot of weapons outside of Andrews and his HBs. Those are stellar numbers.
He's literally declining in the stats you posted. 2019/20 were clearly his peak and since then he's missed multiple games with injury and seen every meaningful stat get worse - yards (passing and rushing), comp%, TD/INT ratio, rate, the lot. I don't know what you thought you were proving by posting that.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 10:09:07 AM
He's literally declining in the stats you posted. 2019/20 were clearly his peak and since then he's missed multiple games with injury and seen every meaningful stat get worse - yards (passing and rushing), comp%, TD/INT ratio, rate, the lot. I don't know what you thought you were proving by posting that.
I looked at his overall stats over his career. And they're damn good.
Given our recent QB history...you should be sucking the farts out of his poopchute for free.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2023, 10:10:17 AM
No/minimal loss of draft picks. I can't stand the idea of losing multiple high draft picks to put it all on one player staying healthy.
Post by: Coach K on January 16, 2023, 10:55:17 AM
Ravens fans seem fairly unbothered by the idea of losing Lamar. Harbaugh had to completely rebuild the offense to suit what he can and can't do, and mobility is the first thing you lose - it's no coincidence that the guys who stay good late in their career are the pocket passers. Paying an absolute fuckton of money to have to completely rebuild the offense around a guy I don't trust to be good seems like a bad idea - I'm not saying we couldn't do it, but it seems like it will be harder to make succeed and have a bigger cost if it doesn't.I'm more against paying anyone 50 mil per yr . Let alone for a QB who's scrambling will only get worse as he heads into 30 yrs old
Hard pass for me. My preference is Rodgers > Carr > Garoppollo > the rest, including Jackson.
Especially with this dumpster fire of an OL
I'll take Carr and use the cap space to rebuild the OL with 1 or 2 guys then draft for depth
Post by: ScotlandJet on January 16, 2023, 11:14:16 AM
I'm more against paying anyone 50 mil per yr . Let alone for a QB who's scrambling will only get worse as he heads into 30 yrs old
Especially with this dumpster fire of an OL
I'll take Carr and use the cap space to rebuild the OL with 1 or 2 guys then draft for depth
100%! Get Carr and get some some quality Linemen and the play offs are on the agenda next season.
That damn AFC East is going to be a fire pit again and we need to be ahead of the curve or we'll be looking for another new coach and another rebuild.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2023, 12:08:50 PM
Just blows my mind on how much we suffered with shitty QB play over the last decade, and yet some people would scoff at the chance of signing an MVP QB entering his prime years.I don't like Lamar, his left index toe is too long.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 12:09:48 PM
I don't like Lamar, his left index toe is too long.
FYP
Post by: Coach K on January 16, 2023, 12:29:45 PM
Lamar can throw . He's a great player . I don't want to mortgage Ssets to pay top dollar for a qb who would get injured even faster than usual behind this OL .
Get me derek Carr
Post by: Coach K on January 16, 2023, 12:30:23 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 12:32:49 PM
It's not signing when we have to give up draft capital and one of the biggest contracts in league history for a scrambling QB who's scrambling will only get worse from here on out .
Lamar can throw . He's a great player . I don't want to mortgage Ssets to pay top dollar for a qb who would get injured even faster than usual behind this OL .
Get me derek Carr
TBF, he scrambles a lot for 2 reasons.
1) he's good at it...and opposing defenses hate it/and hate preparing for it.
2) his OC is that run-first retard Greg Roman
The scrambling will always be a part of his arsenal, but like you said, he can throw. Maybe a change in system will facilitate that.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 12:55:34 PM
I agree with Coach K on this one. The compensation cost for Lamar Jackson is going to be steep both in terms of the contract and the draft picks it will take to get him.
It's a tough call when we have a lot of holes on both sides of the ball that we are going to have to fill this offseason.
Lamar would have the higher ceiling but Carr would be a good player with a much lower price tag and risk for the future of the franchise.
I'm not going to complain if we get Lamar but it's going to limit the talent we can put around him and how well we can protect him.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 16, 2023, 02:06:38 PM
Quote
CBSSports Sportsline Odds for
@Lj_era8’s next team (if not #Ravens):
#Jets +200
#Falcons +300
#Raiders +500
#Panthers +600
#Colts +700
#Commanders +1000
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
But I think you're still talking about the biggest QB contract ever, for a run first QB.
10000% Carr is and will be preferable. And if it wasn't for the fact Lamar was on Baltimore, I'm not convinced JD would pursuit him.
My biggest concern is without a run heavy OC. How long until Lamar does on the field?
Greg Roman is probably the biggest reason Lamar's not in a wheel chair.
If we end up with Lamar I absolutely want the most run heavy OC in the modern era of football. If we had Lamar with MLF, the dude would be a quadriplegic
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 02:14:17 PM
If Lamar ends up being an non exclusive tag blah blah blah and only costs 2 first round picks, that wouldn't be the end of the world.
But I think you're still talking about the biggest QB contract ever, for a run first QB.
10000% Carr is and will be preferable. And if it wasn't for the fact Lamar was on Baltimore, I'm not convinced JD would pursuit him.
My biggest concern is without a run heavy OC. How long until Lamar does on the field?
Greg Roman is probably the biggest reason Lamar's not in a wheel chair.
If we end up with Lamar I absolutely want the most run heavy OC in the modern era of football. If we had Lamar with MLF, the dude would be a quadriplegic
What the hell is this?
This entire post.....is complete nonsense.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2023, 02:17:07 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/p2YQxgDgb2wAAAAC/possum-opossum.gif)
Post by: insanity on January 16, 2023, 02:26:34 PM
I looked at his overall stats over his career. And they're damn good.
This is hilarious on so many levels
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 02:29:48 PM
What the hell is this?
This entire post.....is complete nonsense.
Sorry let me translate
Derr MLF bad, Zach Wilson allpro
Post by: insanity on January 16, 2023, 02:30:09 PM
What the hell is this?It's actually logically sound.
This entire post.....is complete nonsense.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 02:30:42 PM
It's actually logically sound.Prrrrt
Name checks out too
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 02:39:13 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 02:42:06 PM
It's him being the top paid QB ever which is a very legitimate concern.
And I'm not even opposed to Lamar at this point. I just think the value needs to be there, and we need to run a style of offense that'll prolong his career
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 02:48:56 PM
Nobody objects to Lamar being the best paid RB of all timeBeggars can't be choosers...and with our QB situation, we're the biggest beggars in the NFL
It's him being the top paid QB ever which is a very legitimate concern.
And I'm not even opposed to Lamar at this point. I just think the value needs to be there, and we need to run a style of offense that'll prolong his career
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2023, 02:50:41 PM
Nobody objects to Lamar being the best paid RB of all timeEvery good QB that becomes a free agent becomes the top paid QB ever, until the next year or two when someone else becomes the top paid QB ever.
It's him being the top paid QB ever which is a very legitimate concern.
And I'm not even opposed to Lamar at this point. I just think the value needs to be there, and we need to run a style of offense that'll prolong his career
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 16, 2023, 02:51:44 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 03:15:44 PM
Every good QB that becomes a free agent becomes the top paid QB ever, until the next year or two when someone else becomes the top paid QB ever.
This is completely true.
Except Lamar isn't a free agent he's under contract.
So in his case you're talking about the best QB contract of all time. And major draft compensation. I assume the way he gets tagged will dictate the compensation, as previously it seemed like he would end up causing Watsonesque compensation. Now there's rumors of the non exclusive tag, so 2 1st, vs 3 1sts and then some is a hefty difference.
Regardless everyone's concerns with Lamar is his style of play is very different from literally every other top QB, and that stacked with the contract + draft compensation makes this an unusually high risk move.
The guys capable of being league MVP taking us to a superbowl, and he's also capable of completely crippling this franchise for the next 6+ years.
At least with Carr the ceiling isn't as high as he will almost certainly have no chance of being an MVP candidate, but it's pretty high. But in his case the floor is much much higher than with Lamar. If Carr ends up a diasaster it won't even harm this franchise as much as drafting Zach did.
Regardless if we go with Lamar, I just hope we get an OC that will run the ball like freak and use Lamar's gifts sparingly so that we actually might be able to get elite play out of him for 6+ years
Post by: Coach K on January 16, 2023, 04:04:24 PM
"I don't like Lamar, he run too good"I mean I laid my case out rationally, lol . Medical cap space and his best skillet will rapidly decline a few years into the deal
Not to mention this OL being dogshit that we couldn't afford to repair and would have to hit on multiple draft picks who contribute immediately
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:08:00 PM
I mean I laid my case out rationally, lol . Medical cap space and his best skillet will rapidly decline a few years into the deal
Not to mention this OL being dogshit that we couldn't afford to repair and would have to hit on multiple draft picks who contribute immediately
So? hang back on the design runs. He can throw the ball. In the flat, hot routes, intermediate routes or the go routes...he's proven he can do it all.
Just need to beef up the oline.
Woody is going to spend, guys. If there's no shot with Carr, the Jets are gonna go hard after Lamar. Prepare your bums.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 04:09:48 PM
So? hang back on the design runs. He can throw the ball. In the flat, hot routes, intermediate routes or the go routes...he's proven he can do it all.
Just need to beef up the oline.
Woody is going to spend, guys. If there's no shot with Carr, the Jets are gonna go hard after Lamar. Prepare your bums.
The OLine being unable to pass protect actually hurts the offense's ability to move away from designed runs.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:11:34 PM
The OLine being unable to pass protect actually hurts the offense's ability to move away from designed runs.
Let's hope the new guy they hire does a better job than Benton.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 16, 2023, 04:12:56 PM
If we get Lamar Jackson, we also need to have an offensive coordinator who can work with a mobile QB. If you get Lamar, you get him because you want him to run. That's the biggest part of what makes him so dynamic as a QB. It also leads to him getting hurt more, and will likely lead to him having a shorter prime.
Lamar would be very exciting. I've always been a big Lamar guy. I was probably the highest on Lamar out of anyone on this board when he was drafted. I think he probably has 3-5 years left of playing at a really high level, but that's probably fine considering that's basically his next contract.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 16, 2023, 04:13:37 PM
So? hang back on the design runs. He can throw the ball. In the flat, hot routes, intermediate routes or the go routes...he's proven he can do it all.You don't get Lamar Jackson to hang back on the designed runs. You get Lamar Jackson because he may be the greatest running QB in NFL history.
Just need to beef up the oline.
Woody is going to spend, guys. If there's no shot with Carr, the Jets are gonna go hard after Lamar. Prepare your bums.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:18:52 PM
I'm not really dying to give up the contract and draft picks it would take to get Lamar. The contract is fine. The contract AND probably two 1st-round picks? That's a lot. I'm fine with it because we need a QB. But it's scary if the Ravens don't want to pay him. The Ravens may be the smartest organization in the NFL. If they let Lamar leave, there's a good reason.
If we get Lamar Jackson, we also need to have an offensive coordinator who can work with a mobile QB. If you get Lamar, you get him because you want him to run. That's the biggest part of what makes him so dynamic as a QB. It also leads to him getting hurt more, and will likely lead to him having a shorter prime.
Lamar would be very exciting. I've always been a big Lamar guy. I was probably the highest on Lamar out of anyone on this board when he was drafted. I think he probably has 3-5 years left of playing at a really high level, but that's probably fine considering that's basically his next contract.
They do want to pay him (they offered him close to 200 mil guaranteed)...but Lamar wants the entire contract guaranteed (thanks Jimmy Haslam). Cleveland fucked up everything with that stupid Watson deal. The Ravens are a smart franchise, but Lamar is bending them over.
He's going to run, but it doesn't have to be his entire game. And Besides, if we got 4-5 prime years of Lamar, i'd be happy with that. We'd probably get the same with Carr since he's already 32 years old.
Post by: reuben on January 16, 2023, 04:19:02 PM
I'm not really dying to give up the contract and draft picks it would take to get Lamar. The contract is fine. The contract AND probably two 1st-round picks? That's a lot.
I'm not convinced it would be that cheap. Lamar's an MVP. Radioactively-toxic Deshaun Watson never was, and he commanded three firsts plus.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:19:31 PM
You don't get Lamar Jackson to hang back on the designed runs. You get Lamar Jackson because he may be the greatest running QB in NFL history.
You have to be smart about it though. My point was, he can do everything else too.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 04:21:30 PM
-both starting safeties
-both starting OLBs
-our pass rushing depth, starting center
-our RT
-our starting C
-our big target WR
-probably our starting LT if our soon-to-be 39 yo starter with a major shoulder injury retires
Carr is going to cost a lot less in either department and therefore let us put a more talented team on the field in 2023.
Lamar's running ability could mask some flaws but overall it could also cause some key positions to take a step back next season. It's going to depend on how JD can balance these factors out.
Then there's this:
I'm not convinced it would be that cheap. Lamar's an MVP. Radioactively-toxic Deshaun Watson never was, and he commanded three firsts plus.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:23:15 PM
The trade off for Lamar is going to be that we will be much more limited in being able to replace the team's major expiring contracts either in FA (Lamar's contract) or the draft (Baltimore's trade compensation):
-both starting safeties
-both starting OLBs
-our pass rushing depth, starting center
-our RT
-our starting C
-our big target WR
-probably our starting LT if our soon-to-be 39 yo starter with a major shoulder injury retires
Carr is going to cost a lot less in either department and therefore let us put a more talented team on the field in 2023.
Lamar's running ability could mask some flaws but overall it could also cause some key positions to take a step back next season. It's going to depend on how JD can balance these factors out.
Then there's this:
What if Carr says no?
the beauty of this situation is that we're gonna find out long before the FA period begins.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 04:23:46 PM
I'm not convinced it would be that cheap. Lamar's an MVP. Radioactively-toxic Deshaun Watson never was, and he commanded three firsts plus.
I don't think anyone thought it would be that cheap until recently it was reported the Ravens were mulling over using the non exclusive franchise tag
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 04:24:34 PM
What if Carr says no?
the beauty of this situation is that we're gonna find out long before the FA period begins.
Hopefully then you overpay Jimmy G
Or have a conversation with Rodgers that people won't get excited about
I'd wager that most of the OCs we hire will have connections to some unexciting free agent QB's that we bring in with them.
Could be time for Broadway Baker
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 04:27:40 PM
What if Carr says no?
the beauty of this situation is that we're gonna find out long before the FA period begins.
That's a possibility but Lamar can do the same. If he doesn't want to go to the Jets then he can just not sign the tendered offer.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:29:44 PM
Hopefully then you overpay Jimmy G
Or have a conversation with Rodgers that people won't get excited about
I'd wager that most of the OCs we hire will have connections to some unexciting free agent QB's that we bring in with them.
Could be time for Broadway Baker
you're a weird dude. You just went balls to the wall telling me that Lamar is gonna have a short career because he runs too much....and yet, you're willing to overpay for a guy who's spent the majority of his career on the IR.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 04:30:10 PM
That's a possibility but Lamar can do the same. If he doesn't want to go to the Jets then he can just not sign the tendered offer.
I think the uniqueness is most teams will meet or match Carrs demands
There will probably only be one team in the league whose willing to meet Jackson's
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:31:18 PM
That's a possibility but Lamar can do the same. If he doesn't want to go to the Jets then he can just not sign the tendered offer.
This is certainly a possibility.
But like i said earlier, Woody told the world he's going to spend. "Whatever it takes".
Lamar just wants to get paid his worth...if he reaches the market, I think Woody will hand him a blank check.
Plus, this offense does have some attractive pieces with Hall and Wilson, and having a top 5 defense helps too.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 04:32:45 PM
you're a weird dude. You just went balls to the wall telling me that Lamar is gonna have a short career because he runs too much....and yet, you're willing to overpay for a guy who's spent the majority of his career on the IR.
Overpaying for Jimmy G might mean paying him 25-30 million a year with limited guarantees and you can probably cut him loose at after 2 maybe 3 years with no damage done
Overpaying for Jackson will mean in excess of 50 million a year for 5-6 years with the vast majority of it guaranteed plus multiple first round picks.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:34:23 PM
Overpaying for Jackson will mean in excess of 50 million a year for 5-6 years with the vast majority of it guaranteed plus multiple first round picks.
Great, let's go.
You gotta pay to play in this league, man.
I love having draft picks, but i'm ready to win. This roster is missing an elite QB, Lamar fills that need.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 04:41:39 PM
Great, let's go.
You gotta pay to play in this league, man.
I love having draft picks, but i'm ready to win. This roster is missing an elite QB, Lamar fills that need.
I disagree with you less on Lamar than I have on most recent things. I acknowledge his upside
I absolutely just don't want Lamar to be the top priority. But assuming all the safer options fall through, it would make for an interesting jets team.
The only things with Lamar is trading for him is by far the highest risk thing the Jets can realistically do.
And I think you need to have Lamar before hiring an OC. Because with Lamar you need to entirely and uniquely build your offense around him and his skillset
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 16, 2023, 04:43:46 PM
Great, let's go.Then why would the Ravens let him walk?
You gotta pay to play in this league, man.
I love having draft picks, but i'm ready to win. This roster is missing an elite QB, Lamar fills that need.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:45:39 PM
Then why would the Ravens let him walk?
He wants more than Watson and he wants it fully guaranteed. The Ravens have scoffed at both.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 16, 2023, 04:45:53 PM
I'm not convinced it would be that cheap. Lamar's an MVP. Radioactively-toxic Deshaun Watson never was, and he commanded three firsts plus.I just threw out a number, but you're right - that isn't enough for the type of player Lamar has been.
That said, I wonder if last offseason will lower some of the prices. The Watson and Wilson trades were disasters. The 49ers may make the Super Bowl with a 7th-rd rookie. That might lower the cost a little bit for 2023, especially if Lamar is only signing fully guaranteed deals.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 04:46:24 PM
This is certainly a possibility.
But like i said earlier, Woody told the world he's going to spend. "Whatever it takes".
Lamar just wants to get paid his worth...if he reaches the market, I think Woody will hand him a blank check.
Plus, this offense does have some attractive pieces with Hall and Wilson, and having a top 5 defense helps too.
That top 5 defense is going to be missing several key factors next season if we sell out the cap space for Lamar.
I don't think Douglas, of even Woody for that matter, are dumb enough to hinder the offseason that badly for one player, but I'm not going to say I'll be fine if the Jets get to that spot.
We already have to make some serious cuts/restructures in order to be competitive in free agency. Woody being willing to pay whatever and actually doing it are two different things here, unless we want to start operating like the Commanders.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 16, 2023, 04:47:09 PM
He wants more than Watson and he wants it fully guaranteed. The Ravens have scoffed at both.Exactly. My point is that the Ravens may be the smartest organization in the NFL and they don't want to do that. That is very worrisome to me. Especially when we would also be giving up a shitload of draft picks.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:47:37 PM
I disagree with you less on Lamar than I have on most recent things. I acknowledge his upside
I absolutely just don't want Lamar to be the top priority. But assuming all the safer options fall through, it would make for an interesting jets team.
The only things with Lamar is trading for him is by far the highest risk thing the Jets can realistically do.
And I think you need to have Lamar before hiring an OC. Because with Lamar you need to entirely and uniquely build your offense around him and his skillset
You're overthinking it.
Lamar has the QB skillset, but you add in the run aspect. Make sure the oline is stout (this is a priority). But, we have a running back for him to hand it off to (check) and he has someone to throw it to (check).
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 04:50:25 PM
Exactly. My point is that the Ravens may be the smartest organization in the NFL and they don't want to do that. That is very worrisome to me. Especially when we would also be giving up a shitload of draft picks.
They don't want to do it because Cleveland set an awful precedent. I'm not keen on it either...but it's not my money, so what do i care?
I'm not too worried. The Ravens want him, but on their own terms. Lamar wants more money than they're willing to spend, and good for him. Always get what you can.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 04:53:13 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 04:53:17 PM
You're overthinking it.
Lamar has the QB skillset, but you add in the run aspect. Make sure the oline is stout (this is a priority). But, we have a running back for him to hand it off to (check) and he has someone to throw it to (check).
Lamar has a QB skillet
Lamar does not have a QB skillet anywhere close to being the top paid QB ever. This guys exceeded 3000 passing yards once in his career
If you're not building your offense around his unique skillset, you're grossly overpaying for what you're getting
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2023, 05:05:40 PM
Lamar has a QB skilletCooking with Lamar
Lamar does not have a QB skillet anywhere close to being the top paid QB ever. This guys exceeded 3000 passing yards once in his career
If you're not building your offense around his unique skillset, you're grossly overpaying for what you're getting
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 05:06:48 PM
Cooking with Lamar
I swear someone's hacking my autocorrect
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 05:08:06 PM
Lamar has a QB skillet
Lamar does not have a QB skillet anywhere close to being the top paid QB ever. This guys exceeded 3000 passing yards once in his career
If you're not building your offense around his unique skillset, you're grossly overpaying for what you're getting
Did you not see Badger's post? He's right...the next QB signing is almost always the next highest paid. It's how the NFL works...they set the market.
Unless you're a lunatic like Jim Haslam.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 05:12:14 PM
Did you not see Badger's post? He's right...the next QB signing is almost always the next highest paid. It's how the NFL works...they set the market.
Unless you're a lunatic like Jim Haslam.
I was referring to utilizing him as a traditional QB, which he is not even close to being
Im suggesting if you want to get anything close to your money's worth with Lamar, you need to completely build an offense around him not being a normal QB
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 05:13:32 PM
I was referring to utilizing him a traditional QB, which he is not
Im suggesting if you want to get anything close to your money's worth with Lamar, you need to completely build an offense around him not being a normal QB
What do you need in this "offense" to build around him with? Be specific.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 05:17:41 PM
What do you need in this "offense" to build around him with? Be specific.
https://www.nfl.com/news/baltimore-ravens-designed-offense-to-maximize-lamar-jackson-not-feed-belly-achin
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 16, 2023, 05:19:23 PM
I swear someone's hacking my autocorrect
You weren't the first in this thread.
I mean I laid my case out rationally, lol . Medical cap space and his best skillet will rapidly decline a few years into the deal
Not to mention this OL being dogshit that we couldn't afford to repair and would have to hit on multiple draft picks who contribute immediately
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 16, 2023, 05:20:09 PM
What do you need in this "offense" to build around him with? Be specific.Four new offensive linemen with AVT. 2 mobile backup QBs (maybe Wilson can be one). A coach who is willing to build a system around Lamar's running game.
I'm not opposed to Lamar without seeing the salary/draft prices, but there are a ton of red flags. The biggest one to be is why would the Ravens get rid of him? Sure, he wants guaranteed money, but if one of the smartest franchises in the NFL doesn't want to do that, I'm leery if the Jets should do it, on top of giving up all the draft picks. It has nothing to do with not being my money - it has everything to do with blowing up our cap on a QB who hasn't finished back-to-back seasons.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2023, 05:28:31 PM
I think he probably has 3-5 years left of playing at a really high level, but that's probably fine considering that's basically his next contract.
Agreed, which is why I'm not worried about the contract.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 05:39:51 PM
Four new offensive linemen with AVT. 2 mobile backup QBs (maybe Wilson can be one). A coach who is willing to build a system around Lamar's running game.Lamar's injury history is a lot easier to accept than Jimmy G's.
I'm not opposed to Lamar without seeing the salary/draft prices, but there are a ton of red flags. The biggest one to be is why would the Ravens get rid of him? Sure, he wants guaranteed money, but if one of the smartest franchises in the NFL doesn't want to do that, I'm leery if the Jets should do it, on top of giving up all the draft picks. It has nothing to do with not being my money - it has everything to do with blowing up our cap on a QB who hasn't finished back-to-back seasons.
We're getting a new offensive system anyway, so this is perfect timing.
Joe Douglas came from that "smart ravens franchise", so I'm not worried there at all.
This is very doable if the Jets decide to pursue him.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 05:42:56 PM
Lamar will cost twice as much per year, and want 5x more guaranteed.
Plus will require massive draft compensation.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 05:44:05 PM
My understanding is his contract with the Ravens is up so there wouldn't be any blocking involved
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 16, 2023, 05:45:59 PM
I don't understand comparing Lamar's injury history to Jimmy GsThis. Lamar's injury history is significantly more troubling than Jimmy's.
Lamar will cost twice as much per year, and want 5x more guaranteed.
Plus will require massive draft compensation.
You have to pay a lot more money for Lamar's injury history, and given the way they both play, Lamar is much more likely to keep getting hurt than Jimmy.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 16, 2023, 05:48:23 PM
With Lamar, if he's not playing at an elite level for the majority of 5-6 years, you're talking about completely crippling a franchise
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 05:49:46 PM
This. Lamar's injury history is significantly more troubling than Jimmy's.Except it hasn't worked out that way. Jimmy is a bigger piece of glass than Lamar, and the last 5 years clearly show that.
You have to pay a lot more money for Lamar's injury history, and given the way they both play, Lamar is much more likely to keep getting hurt than Jimmy.
I'll let Woody, JD and their salary cap staff worry about the money...doesn't affect us at all.
I trust they'll have a plan.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 05:50:45 PM
Plus with Jimmy G you can cut him after 2 years with minimal damage.Lamar will play like Lamar...which is elite. Something this franchise hasn't seen in decades.
With Lamar, if he's not playing at an elite level for the majority of 5-6 years, you're talking about completely crippling a franchise
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 05:56:36 PM
You guys don't know how to accept them into your lives
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 16, 2023, 06:01:54 PM
This is why we can't have nice things....Then why don't you support bringing in a free agent QB who has played in a Super Bowl?
You guys don't know how to accept them into your lives
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2023, 06:04:55 PM
Then why don't you support bringing in a free agent QB who has played in a Super Bowl?Because his injury history is legit.
You know red flags, that's a layup for you.
Post by: Coach K on January 17, 2023, 09:08:04 AM
Because his injury history is legit.For thw record I want no part of Jimmy G that's where we agree
You know red flags, that's a layup for you.
Again love Lamar just think the money can be better spent rounding out the roster
If we trade for him JD better hit on his remaining 3rd -5th for the next 3 yrs lol
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 09:09:40 AM
For thw record I want no part of Jimmy G that's where we agree
Again love Lamar just think the money can be better spent rounding out the roster
If we trade for him JD better hit on his remaining 3rd -5th for the next 3 yrs lol
Now that MLF is gone, i REALLY want no part of Jimmy G.
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 09:26:52 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 09:28:14 AM
I don't think he's leaving SF. I think they'll trade one of Lance or Purdy and retain Jimmy to compete with whoever is left.
i think you're correct
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 17, 2023, 09:38:44 AM
I don't think he's leaving SF. I think they'll trade one of Lance or Purdy and retain Jimmy to compete with whoever is left.Well, if that's the case, we are probably one of the teams looking at getting Lance or Purdy.
But I don't see the 49ers giving up a big contract for Jimmy when they can just have Lance and Purdy compete for a fraction of the price. That doesn't make sense to me.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 09:40:21 AM
I don't think he's leaving SF. I think they'll trade one of Lance or Purdy and retain Jimmy to compete with whoever is left.
There's no way
Do you really see the 49ers giving Jimmy G a 4 year 100+ million dollar contract to compete with anyone?
I've seen lots of people compare Jimmy G to Dak, but for half the cost.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 17, 2023, 09:40:55 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 09:41:34 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 09:42:13 AM
Especially since Jimmy G is going to be a UFA so the 49ers have no leverage at bringing him back
He's gone on record multiple times that he wants to stay in SF.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 09:44:22 AM
He's gone on record multiple times that he wants to stay in SF.
I've gone on the record for wanting Anna Kournikova to sit on my lap.
When's she coming over?
Jimmy G makes zero sense to be back
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 09:45:35 AM
There's no way
Do you really see the 49ers giving Jimmy G a 4 year 100+ million dollar contract to compete with anyone?
I've seen lots of people compare Jimmy G to Dak, but for half the cost.
Yes I do. On that deal you have a highly competent and relatively inexpensive QB room, and you don't have any decisions to make about the position for the next three years. If I'm SF and I've got Jimmy available at $25M a year I sign him, keep Purdy, trade Lance, and pat myself on the back for some masterful roster management.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 17, 2023, 09:48:02 AM
I don't think he's leaving SF. I think they'll trade one of Lance or Purdy and retain Jimmy to compete with whoever is left.
We should talk to them about Purdy.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 17, 2023, 09:50:37 AM
We should talk to them about Purdy.
I think that system is what is making him thrive. Bring him here, I don't know.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 09:50:53 AM
I've gone on the record for wanting Anna Kournikova to sit on my lap.
When's she coming over?
Jimmy G makes zero sense to be back
Right...he has zero decision making power in his life, you know better than he does.
get a clue.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 09:51:31 AM
I think that system is what is making him thrive. Bring him here, I don't know.
this is where i'm at with Purdy too.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 09:51:37 AM
We should talk to them about Purdy.
Considering he's on year 2 of an essentially free rookie contract
I think his trade value is going to have to be pretty significantly inflated for them to give him up
I mean if your the 49ers is there anyway you'd even contemplate giving up a capable QB whose contract is essentially free for less than a 3rd?
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 09:53:15 AM
Right...he has zero decision making power in his life, you know better than he does.
get a clue.
There's a market at minimum for the Jets Patriots Raiders chasing him. Even the Dolphins could be in the mix. Jimmy G would have to give the 49ers a crazy hometown discount to go back.
He might want to be there, but other team will want him way more
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 17, 2023, 09:55:14 AM
Yes I do. On that deal you have a highly competent and relatively inexpensive QB room, and you don't have any decisions to make about the position for the next three years. If I'm SF and I've got Jimmy available at $25M a year I sign him, keep Purdy, trade Lance, and pat myself on the back for some masterful roster management.That sounds like a terrible idea and a waste of money.
You already have a competent and inexpensive QB room. So the plan is to give a backup quarterback $25M a year? That sounds like the dumbest use of resources possible.
Quote from: MBGreen
He's gone on record multiple times that he wants to stay in SF.
Good for him. Most people say they want to stay where they are. I'm sure he would also like to get paid market value and have a chance to compete for the starting job. If San Francisco offers him those things, he probably stays. But I don't understand why it makes any sense for the 49ers to do that.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 09:55:38 AM
There's a market at minimum for the Jets Patriots Raiders chasing him. Even the Dolphins could be in the mix. Jimmy G would have to give the 49ers a crazy hometown discount to go back.
He might want to be there, but other team will want him way more
If he wants to stay in SF and take less for it...that's his decision. That's how Free Agency works. Tom Brady took discounts for years to stay in NWE.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 09:56:38 AM
That sounds like a terrible idea and a waste of money.
You already have a competent and inexpensive QB room. So the plan is to give a backup quarterback $25M a year? That sounds like the dumbest use of resources possible.
Good for him. Most people say they want to stay where they are. I'm sure he would also like to get paid market value and have a chance to compete for the starting job. If San Francisco offers him those things, he probably stays. But I don't understand why it makes any sense for the 49ers to do that.
You also thought MLF did a good job here, so i'm not sure how anything makes sense to you.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 17, 2023, 09:56:52 AM
I think that system is what is making him thrive. Bring him here, I don't know.
I'd give him a shot as a backup. He's gone more than two games without a severe injury which makes him better than Mike White.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 09:57:24 AM
If he wants to stay in SF and take less for it...that's his decision. That's how Free Agency works. Tom Brady took discounts for years to stay in NWE.
Good point
Let's compare Jimmy G to a guy who took less money because his wife was a billionaire
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 09:59:33 AM
Good point
Let's compare Jimmy G to a guy who took less money because his wife was a billionaire
lmao
Gisele hated living in NWE btw....send in your next dumbfuck variable that makes no sense in this discussion.
Post by: Badger on January 17, 2023, 09:59:55 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 10:00:28 AM
That sounds like a terrible idea and a waste of money.
You already have a competent and inexpensive QB room. So the plan is to give a backup quarterback $25M a year? That sounds like the dumbest use of resources possible.
Lose Jimmy and you have 10 NFL starts in that locker room. It's a huge risk to run with Purdy and Lance, $25M is not big QB money and he's a solid, experienced, capable QB who knows the system and is settled at the club.
I'm dumping Lance for whatever I can get for him and letting Purdy and Jimmy compete for the starting job.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 10:02:01 AM
The hill I'm dying on: if you're not open to any of Jackson, Carr, Garoppolo, or Rodgers, then you're not serious about upgrading the QB position and should start talking yourself into why Zach might turn it around.
3 of these guys can last a full season...the other one you can't trust. So unless that "one" is a stopgap, no thanks.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 17, 2023, 10:02:39 AM
I'd give him a shot as a backup. He's gone more than two games without a severe injury which makes him better than Mike White.
He's played really well for 7 games there. I see no reason why they should roll with anyone else at QB.
He isn't going to get traded anywhere to be a backup. Not after the way he's played.
Lance will probably get traded and replaced with a more reliable backup that knows the system.
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 10:03:10 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 10:04:13 AM
Lose Jimmy and you have 10 NFL starts in that locker room. It's a huge risk to run with Purdy and Lance, $25M is not big QB money and he's a solid, experienced, capable QB who knows the system and is settled at the club.
I'm dumping Lance for whatever I can get for him and letting Purdy and Jimmy compete for the starting job.
From a win now perspective
Either you think Jimmy G is clearly better than Purdy and Lance (which is a reasonable assumption) then you go out and pay him to be the clear cut starter. But you 100% will get into a bidding war, TBD how big it is.
If not, you go full win now mode and spend that money to win now. After their investment in CMC I'd suspect their optimal window is 2 or 3 years
Post by: Badger on January 17, 2023, 10:06:40 AM
I'm also not all that fussed by the injury reputation with Garoppolo. He's done his ACL, a pretty common injury in the NFL, had an ankle sprain, and then broken his foot. That doesn't scream to me that he's asking too much of his body and it's going to keep breaking down the way that repetitive hamstring or groin strains do.Also important that these aren't arm/shoulder injuries like Chad was plagued with.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 17, 2023, 10:07:37 AM
Lose Jimmy and you have 10 NFL starts in that locker room. It's a huge risk to run with Purdy and Lance, $25M is not big QB money and he's a solid, experienced, capable QB who knows the system and is settled at the club.They tried to trade Garoppolo all offseason, and even told him not to come to training camp. They were willing to roll with Lance and Purdy THIS season, before we knew if Purdy was anything. Now Purdy has been pretty good in a small sample size. Unless they lost a ton of faith in Lance and they don't believe in Purdy at all, I don't see why they would keep Jimmy at the contract he would likely ask for.
I'm dumping Lance for whatever I can get for him and letting Purdy and Jimmy compete for the starting job.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 10:08:33 AM
I'm also not all that fussed by the injury reputation with Garoppolo. He's done his ACL, a pretty common injury in the NFL, had an ankle sprain, and then broken his foot. That doesn't scream to me that he's asking too much of his body and it's going to keep breaking down the way that repetitive hamstring or groin strains do.
this is Jimmy's injury history
(https://i.imgur.com/zxt586X.jpg)
looks like glass to me.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 10:09:57 AM
If he's anywhere in that ballpark there's a 0.0% chance of him being with the 49ers
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 10:10:18 AM
They tried to trade Garoppolo all offseason, and even told him not to come to training camp. They were willing to roll with Lance and Purdy THIS season, before we knew if Purdy was anything. Now Purdy has been pretty good in a small sample size. Unless they lost a ton of faith in Lance and they don't believe in Purdy at all, I don't see why they would keep Jimmy at the contract he would likely ask for.
SF is a smart organization too...where's your red flag spidey sense on Jimmy G? or is that only reserved for Lamar Jackson.
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 10:10:28 AM
They tried to trade Garoppolo all offseason, and even told him not to come to training camp. They were willing to roll with Lance and Purdy THIS season, before we knew if Purdy was anything. Now Purdy has been pretty good in a small sample size. Unless they lost a ton of faith in Lance and they don't believe in Purdy at all, I don't see why they would keep Jimmy at the contract he would likely ask for.
..... and then the universe demonstrated to them how important it was that they had Jimmy after all. Maybe they do roll with Lance and Purdy and spend all their money on something else, but I wouldn't. It seems like a very risky strategy, even in a QB friendly scheme.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 17, 2023, 10:11:57 AM
..... and then the universe demonstrated to them how important it was that they had Jimmy after all. Maybe they do roll with Lance and Purdy and spend all their money on something else, but I wouldn't. It seems like a very risky strategy, even in a QB friendly scheme.But then Jimmy got hurt and they didn't miss a beat because they had Purdy, who will still be under contract on a really cheap deal.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 10:15:59 AM
..... and then the universe demonstrated to them how important it was that they had Jimmy after all. Maybe they do roll with Lance and Purdy and spend all their money on something else, but I wouldn't. It seems like a very risky strategy, even in a QB friendly scheme.
Letting Jimmy G reach the open market without the protection of the franchise tag was also a very risky strategy.
The 49ers made the calculated decision to let Jimmy go quite a while ago and have planned for that scenario.
I agree that it's not unreasonable to attempt to keep him. But I think the position they put themselves in will make it near impossible to do so. Though you are correct they should do their due diligence, and if they can get him for 25m a year that may be a bargain (based on seeing other predictions of him getting 35m/yr)
I suppose if they can get an unrealistic haul for Lance then it mitigates some of that risk. But I don't see anyone breaking down the bank for Lance. Plus the 49ers are going to have to pay Bosa a billion dollars .
But at the end of the day, unless Jimmy's market is much much much less, I don't see it happening. I suppose the first major domino will be whether Brady retires, or goes to the Raiders
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 17, 2023, 10:16:24 AM
He's played really well for 7 games there. I see no reason why they should roll with anyone else at QB.
He isn't going to get traded anywhere to be a backup. Not after the way he's played.
Lance will probably get traded and replaced with a more reliable backup that knows the system.
I'd take Lance, too.
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 10:16:47 AM
this is Jimmy's injury history
(https://i.imgur.com/zxt586X.jpg)
looks like glass to me.
I don't care about injuries where he didn't miss games.
The ACL, ankle sprain and foot were the only significant injuries. It's not optimal and a 31 year old who has only started 57 games in his career is concerning, I just think there's a bit of context to it. I don't want to give him freak off money over multiple years to be our franchise guy, but I don't think the injury record is a complete dealbreaker.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 10:17:20 AM
Purdy has demonstrated that Shanny's system is basically plug n play for the QB. No wonder they're comfortable with letting Jimmy G go, and it's also no wonder why he wants to stay. Quarterback friendly system and all that jazz.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 10:18:01 AM
I don't care about injuries where he didn't miss games.
The ACL, ankle sprain and foot were the only significant injuries. It's not optimal and a 31 year old who has only started 57 games in his career is concerning, I just think there's a bit of context to it. I don't want to give him freak off money over multiple years to be our franchise guy, but I don't think the injury record is a complete dealbreaker.
the moral of the story: he's gets hurt quite easily.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 10:20:30 AM
I'd take Lance, too.
What do you go into next season with at that point? Lance Zach and White?
Unless you're talking a Lance for Zach straight up, I'm not sure where that takes us
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 10:21:13 AM
If we end up with neither. Sign some bum like Minshew to compete with Zach this year...and then focus on finding our forever QB in the 2024 draft.
Jimmy G solves nothing here imo. Unless he's only a stopgap, which i doubt he'll be interested in. You just can't trust his durability.
Going after Lance doesn't make sense either....because he's a bigger question mark than Zach was.
/my2cents
Post by: bojanglesman on January 17, 2023, 10:22:56 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 10:23:03 AM
the longer this discussion goes, the more i don't want any Shanahan system quarterbacks on our roster.
Purdy has demonstrated that Shanny's system is basically plug n play for the QB. No wonder they're comfortable with letting Jimmy G go, and it's also no wonder why he wants to stay. Quarterback friendly system and all that jazz.
I think that's fair. We've clearly demonstrated that we've not been running a similarly friendly system to date, so any QB coming from that program needs to be viewed through the lens of how much is on them and how much is the system. It's the same thing as the Belichick coaching tree.
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 10:24:35 AM
I'd like to see who the OC is first before I tell Woody who he has to sign. It may not matter, but Carr is probably the only QB that would have a chance to be signed before an OC. I think.
Carr seems to be the one candidate for this role that all of us seem to agree on - everyone appears to have him as their second choice at worst. On that basis it seems a lock that we won't get him.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 10:24:36 AM
the top target should be Derek Carr. If we can't land him, then go after Lamar.
If we end up with neither. Sign some bum like Minshew to compete with Zach this year...and then focus on finding our forever QB in the 2024 draft.
Jimmy G solves nothing here imo. Unless he's only a stopgap, which i doubt he'll be interested in. You just can't trust his durability.
Going after Lance doesn't make sense either....because he's a bigger question mark than Zach was.
/my2cents
Let's point out the obvious that JD and Saleh both probably won't be here if we're in a position to get an elite QB in 24
I don't think either of them likes your scenario very much
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 17, 2023, 10:24:53 AM
What do you go into next season with at that point? Lance Zach and White?Lance could replace Zach as the younger, developmental QB. Lance, Zach and White has far too much blowup potential.
Unless you're talking a Lance for Zach straight up, I'm not sure where that takes us
I don't really see Lance as fitting our timeline, and we took Zach over him a few years ago, and Lance hasn't done much since. At least if Fields became available, you could point to on-field results raising Fields' stock. You can't say that with Lance.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 10:25:14 AM
I think that's fair. We've clearly demonstrated that we've not been running a similarly friendly system to date, so any QB coming from that program needs to be viewed through the lens of how much is on them and how much is the system. It's the same thing as the Belichick coaching tree.
I don't know what it is with those Shanahans. Daddy Shanahan's system was plug n play for running backs. And his kid's system is the same for QBs.
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 10:26:40 AM
Let's point out the obvious that JD and Saleh both probably won't be here if we're in a position to get an elite QB in 24
I don't think either of them likes your scenario very much
As a fan, i don't give a rats derriere if they like my scenario or not. Start winning or GTFO.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 17, 2023, 10:28:27 AM
Carr seems to be the one candidate for this role that all of us seem to agree on - everyone appears to have him as their second choice at worst. On that basis it seems a lock that we won't get him.Carr is an interesting fit in New York. He's a little bit of a different guy. He's super religious, though that can play well in a locker room.
However, he is the most proven/durable QB available who likely only costs money (or minimal picks).
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 10:31:25 AM
Carr is an interesting fit in New York. He's a little bit of a different guy. He's super religious, though that can play well in a locker room.
However, he is the most proven/durable QB available who likely only costs money (or minimal picks).
I don't know that the religion thing really matters that much more or plays so differently in NY. It's not like Times Square is still hawking cheap porn shows and bad drugs, players don't live there anyway, and he's coming from Vegas which isn't exactly known for its puritanical principles.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 17, 2023, 10:33:58 AM
I don't know that the religion thing really matters that much more or plays so differently in NY. It's not like Times Square is still hawking cheap porn shows and bad drugs, players don't live there anyway, and he's coming from Vegas which isn't exactly known for its puritanical principles.He's had an interesting history with media. He could not have possibly come off any better after the Ruggs issue. Other times, he hasn't come off as well.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 17, 2023, 10:41:36 AM
What do you go into next season with at that point? Lance Zach and White?
Unless you're talking a Lance for Zach straight up, I'm not sure where that takes us
Ideally a high value veteran FA to start and an upgrade on Mike White to compete with/push Wilson. Lance might not fit that second billet I'd at least like to see Douglas explore some other options instead of just sticking with Mike White until his next debilitating injury.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 10:48:18 AM
Lamar has missed more games than any top 10 QB the last 2 seasons by a significant margin
And after Dak and Murray nobody else comes even remotely close
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 11:09:18 AM
I just want to point out that despite the complaints about Jimmy Gs injury history
Lamar has missed more games than any top 10 QB the last 2 seasons by a significant margin
And after Dak and Murray nobody else comes even remotely close
sing it, McCourty
https://twitter.com/Willpa11/status/1615337392910524417?s=20&t=B0t7Y8R8W55bwquZ-48m2A
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 11:19:12 AM
sing it, McCourty
https://twitter.com/Willpa11/status/1615337392910524417?s=20&t=B0t7Y8R8W55bwquZ-48m2A
Every single comment on there is pointing out how much of a excrement move it'll be
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2023, 11:21:13 AM
Every single comment on there is pointing out how much of a excrement move it'll be
because everybody outside of NY hates the Jets, dcm. Nobody wants us to succeed. Everybody outside of NY thinks Sauce is a fraud ffs. Are you new to this fanbase?
Post by: Badger on January 17, 2023, 11:51:04 AM
Carr is an interesting fit in New York. He's a little bit of a different guy. He's super religious, though that can play well in a locker room.
However, he is the most proven/durable QB available who likely only costs money (or minimal picks).
I don't know that the religion thing really matters that much more or plays so differently in NY. It's not like Times Square is still hawking cheap porn shows and bad drugs, players don't live there anyway, and he's coming from Vegas which isn't exactly known for its puritanical principles.Also he'll be spending 99% of his "New York" time in suburban NJ so it's not like he's going to stumble upon a homeless couple banging on the LIRR platform.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 12:12:57 PM
He's coming from freaking Las Vegas
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 17, 2023, 12:20:28 PM
Let's point out the obviousExactly. Big difference between Las Vegas and New York City in terms of media.
He's coming from freaking Las Vegas
I just bring up the religion because as soon as Sunday's game ended, the lead local news story out here is Derek Carr delivering a sermon at a local church. I'm not necessarily saying it's good or bad, but it's a lot different than QBs we have had recently.
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 12:32:22 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 17, 2023, 12:46:10 PM
I just bring up the religion because as soon as Sunday's game ended, the lead local news story out here is Derek Carr delivering a sermon at a local church. I'm not necessarily saying it's good or bad, but it's a lot different than QBs we have had recently.
The Jets need an exorcism
Post by: Badger on January 17, 2023, 12:48:59 PM
He's been in Oakland and Vegas, they're not exactly Bible Belt. I'm sure he can find a perfectly acceptable place of worship in Jersey.No churches in Jersey, only jughandles.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 17, 2023, 12:53:29 PM
The Jets need an exorcismI thought bringing in God's masterpiece would be enough.
Post by: Johnny English on January 17, 2023, 12:58:45 PM
https://theathletic.com/4091165/2023/01/17/brock-purdy-49ers-playoffs-film/
TLDR: Purdy did what he was supposed to but Kyle Shanahan is absolutely dominating with his play design and calling.
Post by: Coach K on January 17, 2023, 01:13:14 PM
I don't think he's leaving SF. I think they'll trade one of Lance or Purdy and retain Jimmy to compete with whoever is left.I'd take Purdy in a heartbeat lol
Post by: Heismanberg on January 17, 2023, 01:16:09 PM
In the context of the Garoppolo conversation, here's an interesting Brock Purdy analysis.
https://theathletic.com/4091165/2023/01/17/brock-purdy-49ers-playoffs-film/
TLDR: Purdy did what he was supposed to but Kyle Shanahan is absolutely dominating with his play design and calling.
Yung Shanny is in his bag and really always has been.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 17, 2023, 05:57:42 PM
Quote
Rich Cimini
For those following #Jets/QB market, I think this stat is interesting -- QBR under pressure (min: 200 attempts). 1. Allen - 76.2 2. Mahomes - 53.4 3. Carr - 53.4 9. Garoppolo -- 34.2 16. Jackson - 23.4 30. Brady - 6.7 31. Wentz - 5.9 32. M. Jones - 4.1 33. Wilson - 2.0
Post by: dcm1602 on January 18, 2023, 04:34:13 PM
If he goes to Denver, great.
If he ends up somewhere like New Orleans and wants to win now. How the freak are we going to compete with that as far as attracting Carr. Brilliant offensive coach, dome, pathetic division, one of the most stable coaching situations in the league.
Then the downstream effects that has on Jimmy G and the rest of the QB market will surely be significant.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 18, 2023, 04:51:40 PM
One of the points I just saw, is going to be the impact of where Sean Payton ends up on the QB market
If he goes to Denver, great.
If he ends up somewhere like New Orleans and wants to win now. How the freak are we going to compete with that as far as attracting Carr. Brilliant offensive coach, dome, pathetic division, one of the most stable coaching situations in the league.
Then the downstream effects that has on Jimmy G and the rest of the QB market will surely be significant.
Why would he go to NO? He retired so he could get away from there because he knows their window ended with Brees.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 18, 2023, 05:07:18 PM
Why would he go to NO? He retired so he could get away from there because he knows their window ended with Brees.
I mean he is under contract with them so there is that
I suppose the biggest factor would be how happy is New Orleans with Dennis Allen.
Post by: delavan on January 18, 2023, 05:21:50 PM
btw, where would Mike White go?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 18, 2023, 06:51:46 PM
Carr or LamarOur bench as #2
btw, where would Mike White go?
Post by: Johnny English on January 18, 2023, 07:03:06 PM
Carr or Lamar
btw, where would Mike White go?
I honestly don't care. Happy to keep him as backup. Happy for him to get a bag elsewhere. He seems like a nice fella and all his teammates love him, but he isn't making any difference to the New York Jets.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 18, 2023, 07:49:04 PM
I honestly don't care. Happy to keep him as backup. Happy for him to get a bag elsewhere. He seems like a nice fella and all his teammates love him, but he isn't making any difference to the New York Jets.
He keeps us from having to watch Zach Wilson not play QB on the field.
That makes all the difference to the NYJ
Post by: Johnny English on January 18, 2023, 07:53:42 PM
He keeps us from having to watch Zach Wilson not play QB on the field.
That makes all the difference to the NYJ
If Mike White is the one keeping us from seeing Zach next season we are fucked.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 18, 2023, 07:58:54 PM
If Mike White is the one keeping us from seeing Zach next season we are fucked.
If we sign Jimmy G or trade for Lamar he will be
Post by: delavan on January 18, 2023, 08:49:33 PM
He keeps us from having to watch Zach Wilson not play QB on the field.
dcm, being you're a medical guy and all wouldn't you say your zachophobic logorrhea is approaching broken record status? ; )
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Holiday_Inn_Express_%26_Suites_Sign_%2825363934645%29.jpg/320px-Holiday_Inn_Express_%26_Suites_Sign_%2825363934645%29.jpg)(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZTjQZ9OsAu1Og/giphy.gif)
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 19, 2023, 05:22:53 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 19, 2023, 07:59:17 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 08:33:45 AM
Quote
A few other names in the rumor mill: Buffalo Bills quarterbacks coach Joe Brady, Los Angeles Rams senior offensive assistant Greg Olson and former Broncos offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur. There also could be candidates whose names haven't surfaced.
I'd be interested in Shurmur or Brady.
Also from the article that stuck out
Quote
Once he finds a coordinator, Saleh will try to pair him with an experienced offensive line coach such as Keith Carter, formerly of the Tennessee Titans.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 19, 2023, 08:47:39 AM
https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/91199/jets-widen-offensive-coordinator-search-what-are-potential-roadblocks
I'd be interested in Shurmur or Brady.
Also from the article that stuck out
https://titanswire.usatoday.com/2023/01/11/titans-taylor-lewan-keith-carter-todd-downing-firings/
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 08:49:13 AM
https://titanswire.usatoday.com/2023/01/11/titans-taylor-lewan-keith-carter-todd-downing-firings/
interesting.
Isn't Lewan a nutcase?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 19, 2023, 08:51:22 AM
Isn't Lewan a nutcase?
yes, and he also never shuts the hell up
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 10:04:03 AM
We have a problem if we keep Zach and White. As said before, together they would account to 15 million against the cap. If you add 30+ for our new QB, we're getting into Mahomes territory. Financially, doesn't make sense. Either White's market is the same as last year and we can resign him for 2 or we will have to get a more modest veteran alternative.As I've said for a while, I think keeping White and Wilson is awkward in a lot of scenarios unless White is very cheap. Hard to spend $15M+ on 2 backups when you're about to likely be overpaying on a starter as well.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 01:39:02 PM
Quote
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
1m
Lamar Jackson will be involved with the offensive coordinator hire, per John Harbaugh.
"This is going to be highly sought-after job."
i think it's Carr or bust, gents.
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2023, 02:08:20 PM
i think it's Carr or bust, gents.
We already have the bust, so let's go with Carr.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 19, 2023, 02:10:34 PM
We already have the bust, so let's go with Carr.
Zing!
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2023, 02:29:02 PM
Treat Zach Wilson like a glorified RB
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 02:37:36 PM
If we can't get a real QB we should bring in RomanI've always kind of wondered if there is a market inefficiency in the NFL with mobile QBs.
Treat Zach Wilson like a glorified RB
Sign a bunch of freak athlete quarterbacks who are pretty cheap, and have the best one start at QB. Play him until he gets hurt, then plug in the new guy. Make the system pretty simple. It's hard to do that for most teams because nobody wants their QB to get hurt, but if we're not paying much for our QBs, then we don't have to worry about that. Run a full college system with college QBs.
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 02:38:32 PM
If we can't get a real QB we should bring in Roman
Treat Zach Wilson like a glorified RB
We already have the StrevGod
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2023, 02:57:24 PM
We already have the StrevGod
I said glorified RB not actual one
And of course his completion percentage is like 13% higher than freaking Zachs
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 03:27:58 PM
I said glorified RB not actual oneLmao
And of course his completion percentage is like 13% higher than freaking Zachs
You thought I was serious...thats cute.
Btw...a Greg Roman hire is a horrible idea
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2023, 03:52:20 PM
Lmao
You thought I was serious...thats cute.
Btw...a Greg Roman hire is a horrible idea
Roman is probably the most experienced OC on the market
It'll either be him or one of these guys who have been TE coach for an hour and have never called plays
Give me a Roman and Hackett combo
Unless we can bring in somebody that gets us Carr
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 03:59:11 PM
Roman is probably the most experienced OC on the market(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230119/005e0adb78074269e4545cbbdce0891d.gif)
It'll either be him or one of these guys who have been TE coach for an hour and have never called plays
Give me a Roman and Hackett combo
Unless we can bring in somebody that gets us Carr
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2023, 04:02:09 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230119/005e0adb78074269e4545cbbdce0891d.gif)
You complained about MLF and his inexperience
Here I am clamoring for the most experienced ground and air playcallers on the market, we might even have to start calling our coaching staff FedEx
I can't imagine a better realistic scenario than this duo
It might even make Zach Wilson football watchable
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 04:04:24 PM
You complained about MLF and his inexperienceMLF was terrible...it wasn't just inexperience. His soft skills with the roster weren't good either.
Here I am clamoring for the most experienced ground and air playcallers on the market
I can't imagine a better realistic scenario than this duo
It might even make Zach Wilson football watchable
Stop offering opinions when you haven't done any research into the situation.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2023, 04:06:38 PM
MLF was terrible...it wasn't just inexperience. His soft skills with the roster weren't good either.
Stop offering opinions when you haven't done any research into the situation.
Sorry I was busy helping Lamar research MRNA vaccines and spike proteins
But maybe you could share your research with the rest of the class
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 04:07:53 PM
Sorry I was busy helping Lamar research MRNA vaccines and spike proteinsEven your deflection attempts are sad.
Just take the L and move on.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 04:08:43 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 04:11:22 PM
Does every thread have to be a pissing match?No they don't...but you and dcm don't know how to eat crow with some dignity.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2023, 04:16:03 PM
No they don't...but you and dcm don't know how to eat crow with some dignity.(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/397/C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg)
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2023, 04:17:09 PM
We literally had an offense that was a freaking nightmare because of its inexperience, especially after losing Knapp.
Here I am clamoring for the most viable most experienced combination possible
I'm not sure how doable a Roman/Hackett combo actually is
But Roman is 1000000% my top candidate. Nobody else is even close
Post by: MBGreen on January 19, 2023, 04:28:47 PM
Eat crow on what?Lol
We literally had an offense that was a freaking nightmare because of its inexperience, especially after losing Knapp.
Here I am clamoring for the most viable most experienced combination possible
I'm not sure how doable a Roman/Hackett combo actually is
But Roman is 1000000% my top candidate. Nobody else is even close
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2023, 04:32:46 PM
Post by: delavan on January 19, 2023, 04:37:13 PM
Quote from: dcm1602
Give me a Roman and Hackett combo
Unless we can bring in somebody that gets us Carr
ouch, really?
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2023, 04:42:08 PM
ouch, really?
Dream scenario
Most experienced OC on the market, known for effective ground game and used to having atypical QB's
Moderately experienced OC, with more experience with QB's and passing game
Connection to JD, and connection to Saleh.
I can not imagine a better scenario for this team
I prefer this 10000x to bringing in a first time OC, when we already have a defensive and inexperienced HC
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 09:12:48 AM
If Lamar ends up being an non exclusive tag blah blah blah and only costs 2 first round picks, that wouldn't be the end of the world.
But I think you're still talking about the biggest QB contract ever, for a run first QB.
10000% Carr is and will be preferable. And if it wasn't for the fact Lamar was on Baltimore, I'm not convinced JD would pursuit him.
My biggest concern is without a run heavy OC. How long until Lamar does on the field?
Greg Roman is probably the biggest reason Lamar's not in a wheel chair.
If we end up with Lamar I absolutely want the most run heavy OC in the modern era of football. If we had Lamar with MLF, the dude would be a quadriplegic
(https://i.imgur.com/G73nHv1.jpg)
hE's A rUn FiRSt qB
Post by: dcm1602 on January 20, 2023, 09:48:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/G73nHv1.jpg)
hE's A rUn FiRSt qB
Guess how many seasons Lamar Jackson has finished top 20 in passing yards
Post by: bojanglesman on January 20, 2023, 09:48:54 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 09:50:17 AM
Guess how many seasons Lamar Jackson has finished top 20 in passing yards
big deal...the point you fail to grasp is that he's capable of passing and running. He's a complete QB.
EDIT: no pointless deflections about mRNA research? You're evolving before our very eyes.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 09:50:37 AM
No point in discussing Lamar, that ship has sailed. He's staying there.
Until he signs a contract, the dream lives on.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 20, 2023, 09:54:06 AM
big deal...the point you fail to grasp is that he's capable of passing and running. He's a complete QB.
Dude he's never once in his freaking career finished top 20 in passing yards
NEVER
The guy is an utlra talented athlete, and he is capable of making great throws sometimes
But the guy is 1000000% a complete and utter anamoly. To deny that fact is on par with flat earthing.
As Bo said the ship as sailed regardless. But imagine giving the biggest QB contract of all time and completely mortgaging your future m to a guy whose never managed to finish top 20 in passing yards a single time in his career
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 09:56:51 AM
Dude he's never once in his freaking career finished top 20 in passing yards
NEVER
The guy is an utlra talented athlete, and he is capable of making great throws sometimes
But the guy is 1000000% a complete and utter anamoly.
As Bo said the ship as sailed regardless. But imagine giving the biggest QB contract of all time and completely mortgaging your future m to a guy whose never managed to finish top 20 in passing yards a single time in his career
You said he was a run first QB. I literally just debunked that dumbass comment with irrefutable evidence, and you move on to something that is completely irrelevant.
Who cares where he lands in passing yards? he's an elite QB.
Btw Jalen Hurts and Daniel Jones are both "running QBs"...they're in the playoffs.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 09:59:50 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 20, 2023, 10:00:18 AM
See he's an accurate QB I just proved it.
And I'm not suggesting run first QB's don't work or aren't worth using.
I'm suggesting that run first QB's aren't worth giving up the most trade compensation ever for plus the biggest cotnract ever for.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 20, 2023, 10:06:02 AM
Lamar is one of the best athletes ever. I'd gladly support the Jets giving him the best cotnract ever as a QB if he was a free agent. But to do that plus major draft compensation is too much for me.
If you want to try to convince other people on here that Lamars success is not entirely dependent on his legs, go for it. Won't change my mind. Even though Lamar Jackson holds the freaking nfl record for most rushing yards by a QB in a season in nfl history
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 10:07:14 AM
Zach completed 80% of his passes once
See he's an accurate QB I just proved it.
And I'm not suggesting run first QB's don't work or aren't worth using.
I'm suggesting that run first QB's aren't worth giving up the most trade compensation ever for plus the biggest cotnract ever for.
Your run first QB has 13 games with at least 250 yrds passing. that's more than "once".
Take the L.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 10:08:17 AM
I'm not going to have this argument until the end of existence about a guy whose not leaving his own team
Lamar is one of the best athletes ever. I'd gladly support the Jets giving him the best cotnract ever as a QB if he was a free agent. But to do that plus major draft compensation is too much for me.
If you want to try to convince other people on here that Lamars success is not entirely dependent on his legs, go for it. Won't change my mind
You freaking lost that argument the minute you started typing "run first QB".
I really don't give a excrement what you post here, but if you're gonna post stupid nonsense, prepare to be excrement on.
EDIT: His legs are a big part of his arsenal...but it's not his entire game. Your failure to grasp this is why this convo is happening.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 20, 2023, 10:10:00 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 10:11:00 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 10:11:16 AM
Have a great day
*chefs kiss*
hope you learned something.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 20, 2023, 02:00:27 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 02:10:44 PM
You two really need a Lamar thread for your circle jerk. Otherwise someone might have something relevant to say and it will get lost and/or buried by all this pointless gibberish arguing
I'm not going to allow "troll level nonsense" go unanswered from now on....dcm's been doing this for years. That's enough.
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2023, 02:26:10 PM
I'm not going to allow "troll level nonsense" go unanswered from now on....dcm's been doing this for years. That's enough.
It's not trolling. He doesn't like Lamar and doesn't want him here, just because you don't agree with him doesn't make it trolling. I'm far closer to his opinion on Jackson than yours and I'm not trolling either.
Now, the Hackett/Roman joint OC stuff I'm not so sure about....
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 02:28:31 PM
It's not trolling. He doesn't like Lamar and doesn't want him here, just because you don't agree with him doesn't make it trolling. I'm far closer to his opinion on Jackson than yours and I'm not trolling either.
Now, the Hackett/Roman joint OC stuff I'm not so sure about....
No...when you use false narratives to try to make an argument and knowing full-well you're doing it (i refuse to believe dcm is that stupid), that's trolling.
I don't care that he doesn't like Lamar or not...but don't make excrement up to back up your point.
And when i respond with sound evidence...i don't need to hear about mRNA research.
Maybe sit this one out, JE.
Post by: Johnny English on January 20, 2023, 02:30:45 PM
No...when you use false narratives to try to make an argument and knowing full-well you're doing it (i refuse to believe dcm is that stupid), that's trolling.
I don't care that he doesn't like Lamar or not...but don't make excrement up to back up your point.
And when i respond with sound evidence...i don't need to hear about mRNA research.
Maybe sit this one out, JE.
The RNA stuff was related to Jackson's refusal to confirm his vax status (widely believed to be anti), and that speaks very much to his intelligence and team commitment IMO. I think it's completely reasonable to factor in.
You're having an argument about stats. You don't agree with his. He doesn't agree with yours. It's not trolling.
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 02:31:45 PM
The RNA stuff was related to Jackson's refusal to confirm his vax status (widely believed to be anti), and that speaks very much to his intelligence and team commitment IMO. I think it's completely reasonable to factor in.
You're having an argument about stats. You don't agree with his. He doesn't agree with yours. It's not trolling.
It had zero to do with what we were discussing.
He lost the argument, and pivoted to something that wasn't even being discussed.
EDIT: His vax status has nothing to do with whether he's a complete QB or not....jesus christ.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 20, 2023, 04:34:56 PM
He literally holds the record for rushing yarda by a QB. Can he throw? Of course he can throw. But his running is his biggest strength and why he won MVP.
This is another stupid argument in a message board being ruined by them.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 20, 2023, 05:32:46 PM
This is another stupid argument in a message board being ruined by them.
Welcome to the offseason
Post by: MBGreen on January 20, 2023, 06:10:18 PM
Lamar is absolutely a running quarterback.Thanks for verifying what I was saying all along.
He literally holds the record for rushing yarda by a QB. Can he throw? Of course he can throw. But his running is his biggest strength and why he won MVP.
This is another stupid argument in a message board being ruined by them.
Also, quit whining.
Post by: delavan on January 20, 2023, 08:07:49 PM
dependent on Mark Andrews is another story ; )
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2023, 09:31:18 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 21, 2023, 03:37:46 AM
You freaking lost that argument the minute you started typing "run first QB".Well two years in a row he couldn't finish a season
I really don't give a excrement what you post here, but if you're gonna post stupid nonsense, prepare to be excrement on.
EDIT: His legs are a big part of his arsenal...but it's not his entire game. Your failure to grasp this is why this convo is happening.
I wouldn't even label Lamar run first. I'd label him very expensive for a guy who can't play a full season in recent history .
Combine that with the draft capital required. It'd only make sense if he can be had on the non exclusive two 1st price
Anything else and he can stay in Baltimore as far as I'm concerned
Post by: Coach K on January 21, 2023, 03:39:06 AM
Can we move on from Lamar because it’s like a 0.1% chance thanksThey need to get ready for Carr or Minshew and Brissett and none of us will like the OC
This is the way
Be prepared to be unhappy since we're not actually that desirable
Bevell and Callahan are telling us to eat a bag of dicks and we're here debating why wouldn't Lamar Jackson want to be here when he won't be
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 21, 2023, 04:11:55 AM
Post by: delavan on January 21, 2023, 04:24:33 AM
They need to getfxdready forCarror Minshew and Brissett and none of us will like the OC
This is the way
Post by: MBGreen on January 21, 2023, 06:34:51 AM
Well two years in a row he couldn't finish a seasonIf we're gonna use Lamar's injury history as a reason not to pursue him...fine.
I wouldn't even label Lamar run first. I'd label him very expensive for a guy who can't play a full season in recent history .
Combine that with the draft capital required. It'd only make sense if he can be had on the non exclusive two 1st price
Anything else and he can stay in Baltimore as far as I'm concerned
But then Jimmy G can eat excrement too.
Post by: Badger on January 21, 2023, 08:23:09 AM
Can we move on from Lamar because it’s like a 0.1% chance thanksI've already pivoted to Rodgers.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 21, 2023, 09:25:39 AM
If we're gonna use Lamar's injury history as a reason not to pursue him...fine.
But then Jimmy G can eat excrement too.
Literally no one here is advocating Jimmy G as option A. Hell now that LaFleur is gone I’m not sure anyone is advocating he is even as high as option C for most people
I don’t want Lamar for several of he pre-discussed reasons. At the end of the day he’s got a seriously high upside for us and it’s better than a lot of our options. But it’s an inherent risk that if it goes wrong (and to me it feels like it will) won’t just cost Douglas and Saleh their jobs, but quite likely the regime after them their jobs and cost us the rest of the decade of trying to succeed.
But I think I’d probably roll with a desired tier list that’s below
1. Carr
2. Lamar
3. Rodgers
4. Heinecke
5. Jimmy G
6. Trade up to 1 with the Bears
7. Mike White
8. Brissett
9. Cry and give up on life
10. Teddy B
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 21, 2023, 09:26:26 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 21, 2023, 09:30:09 AM
There is absolutely no one worth trading up for in this draft.
No disagreement. Which is I why I have that below Jimmy G and Taylor Heinecke
But it is an option to get a new QB in here. It’s a terrible option that I do NOT want and won’t advocate for, but if we strike out everywhere else, taking a rookie is something non of us want but still might happen.
Post by: Coach K on January 21, 2023, 09:49:58 AM
If we're gonna use Lamar's injury history as a reason not to pursue him...fine.I dont want Jimmy G either tbh . We agree I love Lamar the player . Been a fan since Louisville. Of We didn't have a Swiss cheese OL that needs at least 3 starters replaced I'd he more for it
But then Jimmy G can eat excrement too.
I dont see it happening. Roman being fired tells me Jackson wants input on a more pass happy OC. No WRs werre going there. Past his prime Anquan Bolden was the best WR acquisition they had in like a decade lol
Lamar can force Baltimore hand and have a season worth commanding the fully guaranteed he seems to be hung up on.
Again I think Jackson costs at least 20 mil more per yr and that's at least 1 really good OL or 2 avg OL
We acquire Lamar for 2 1sts and nothing else I'm a bit more open to it . But I think it looks more like a Watson package
The fact OCs see this vacancy as a sitting duck role doesn't help either
Post by: Coach K on January 21, 2023, 09:52:52 AM
There is absolutely no one worth trading up for in this draft.This is what hurts the most . There's not even a prospect I could sell myself on
AR is worth a 3rd round flier and sit him down for a yr or two . But he will go late first off ceiling alone .
It pains me to say that as a FSU fan lol.
Either way this is gonna be like the yr they had Christian ponder and others go earlier than they should've
We just need to grab a starter at OL at 13 and not look back . Unless they're drafting a LBer
Post by: MBGreen on January 21, 2023, 09:59:51 AM
This offseason was just the worst possible one to have an issue with your QB position
Post by: bojanglesman on January 21, 2023, 10:00:19 AM
My money is on a Jacoby Brissett type. Sadly, he'd be an upgrade. I'd rather have him than wasting a draft pick on a turd in this draft. At least he can competently operate an offense and been in several different ones. It'll be depressing though.
Post by: Badger on January 21, 2023, 10:51:09 AM
Literally no one here is advocating Jimmy G as option A. Hell now that LaFleur is gone I’m not sure anyone is advocating he is even as high as option C for most people
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230121/3a3156adc4e91eb4d7247f2b4fdb6ad8.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on January 21, 2023, 11:25:25 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230121/3a3156adc4e91eb4d7247f2b4fdb6ad8.jpg)
ahahaha...i'm glad i didn't expose you. Because that pic is perfect.
Post by: MBGreen on January 21, 2023, 11:26:31 AM
Post by: Coach K on January 21, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
After listening to Schefter this morning...someone is going to overpay for Carr. Too many teams in on him (including us).Yeah
The whole NFC south looking for a QB . Commanders Jets
List goes on
Post by: MBGreen on January 21, 2023, 11:38:26 AM
Yeah
The whole NFC south looking for a QB . Commanders Jets
List goes on
i really hate this offseason so far.
Post by: insanity on January 21, 2023, 12:01:47 PM
Post by: Badger on January 21, 2023, 12:02:15 PM
https://twitter.com/derekcarrqb/status/1616852664683483137?s=19
Post by: Badger on January 21, 2023, 12:03:44 PM
Jimmy Garoppolo
- Pros: Handsome, Italian
Firing MLF doesn't change this!
Post by: Johnny English on January 21, 2023, 12:09:55 PM
I wouldn't mind getting an old vet like ..... Brady
Why are you the way that you are?
Post by: ScotlandJet on January 21, 2023, 12:54:50 PM
Why are you the way that you are?Thanks JE
If Brady ever suits up for us that’s the last you’ll see of me
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 21, 2023, 01:10:16 PM
Anyway, he'd never come here.
Post by: Johnny English on January 21, 2023, 01:10:24 PM
Thanks JE
If Brady ever suits up for us that’s the last you’ll see of me
I would take the approach of my friend the Raiders fan. They've been heavily linked with Brady (I guess the McDaniels connection, plus I think David Carr said something about it the other day), he said that if Brady joins the Raiders he'll just follow another team until Brady fucks off again. Won't abandon his team, just suspend support for or interest in them until Brady is gone.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 21, 2023, 01:27:36 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 21, 2023, 01:39:06 PM
Sign Greg Olson and throw the bag at Carr. freak it. Give Olson whatever job title he wants. Senior offensive derriere crusher wizard.The other 8 teams in on Carr might do the same
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 21, 2023, 02:13:21 PM
There's no good answer. Throwing the bag at Derek Carr would normally be a terrible answer. He's an average QB and we would be paying him a ton of money. However, most of our best players are on rookie contracts, so if there were a time to overspend on a guy like Carr, it would probably be now.
Lamar would be a huge upgrade, but between salary, draft capital, and his injury history, that's a ton to give up. If Lamar were the same quarterback but you trust his health, you would do it, but that's a huge risk.
Rodgers and Brady are both late-career guys who would actually be perfect short-term fits here IMO. However, both could easily be one-and-done, and Rodgers costs picks, and Brady seems more likely to just fall off a cliff.
With Garoppolo, it all depends on the salary. I think Jimmy G isn't much worse than Carr when both are healthy, but I think the health concerns ding his salary significantly. That's why he appeals to me, even without MLF here to make it an obvious fit.
Garoppolo was the guy I was leaning towards when MLF was the guy. I thought Jimmy G would be a lot cheaper because he's coming off the injuries. I feel like he's the best chance of getting a startable QB for a reasonable salary without giving up draft picks. With MLF here, I thought it was a very good fit. Without him, I still like him as a candidate, assuming his salary is reasonable. If he's really expensive, I'll pass.
None of the other free agents are very exciting, but if the goal is to get a cheap stopgap and spend up elsewhere (or draft one), you can make that work.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 21, 2023, 02:58:43 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 21, 2023, 03:06:40 PM
No one we obtain this offseason (with the unlikely exception of Lamar) is the long-term answer so, unless by some miracle Zach is that guy, my preference is to sign/trade for somebody (probably Carr) who can serve as a 1-2 year bridge before drafting one of the 1st round guys next year.
Define "long term". Carr is 31, he's been incredibly durable (missed 2 games in his 9 year NFL career through injury) and isn't going to be hampered by a loss of foot speed. He could easily play for another 5-8 years if he wants to, and that's an age in the NFL.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 21, 2023, 03:13:54 PM
Define "long term". Carr is 31, he's been incredibly durable (missed 2 games in his 9 year NFL career through injury) and isn't going to be hampered by a loss of foot speed. He could easily play for another 5-8 years if he wants to, and that's an age in the NFL.
3+ years but the key word is "answer". To me, that's somebody we can consistently compete for championships with. I don't see a mid-30s Derek Carr doing that in this conference. If the Raiders (or the league in general) did, he wouldn't be available.
Maybe Carr proves everybody wrong. I don't know, I just wouldn't bet on it so I'm viewing him like an Alex Smith.
Post by: Johnny English on January 21, 2023, 03:19:45 PM
3+ years but the key word is "answer". To me, that's somebody we can consistently compete for championships with. I don't see a mid-30s Derek Carr doing that in this conference. If the Raiders (or the league in general) did, he wouldn't be available.
Fair enough, but he's definitely got plenty in the tank to relieve the pressure to find a QB in the next year or two. He's probably a good voice in the room if we want to spend the next three years drafting mid round QBs as well.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 21, 2023, 03:24:06 PM
Fair enough, but he's definitely got plenty in the tank to relieve the pressure to find a QB in the next year or two. He's probably a good voice in the room if we want to spend the next three years drafting mid round QBs as well.
Firmly agree. Carr's durability is one of the reasons I like him. He'd probably be a good mentor to Zach or another young QB too.
Post by: delavan on January 21, 2023, 04:00:14 PM
Sign Greg Olson and throw the bag at Carr. freak it. Give Olson whatever job title he wants. Senior offensive derriere crusher wizard.Background history how Olson went from zero (0-10) to hero
https://theathletic.com/2896308/2021/10/18/how-greg-olson-and-derek-carr-got-raiders-offense-back-on-track-in-win-over-the-broncos/
Post by: bojanglesman on January 21, 2023, 08:45:37 PM
If his current contract is likely more than he can get in free agency, I totally see him getting traded instead so he can keep his deal.
I don't know that there's any advantage for him to agree to a trade in order to know his team in Feb. instead of mid March when free agency starts.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 21, 2023, 09:48:11 PM
Could Carr get more than his current contract in free agency if he were cut? If so, why would he agree to be traded anywhere? Why hurt his future team? He has a no trade clause. Just get cut and let the bidding war begin. A ton of teams need a QB. Am I missing something there?
If his current contract is likely more than he can get in free agency, I totally see him getting traded instead so he can keep his deal.
I don't know that there's any advantage for him to agree to a trade in order to know his team in Feb. instead of mid March when free agency starts.
I think it all depends on how many teams he’s willing to play for, and what that team(s) needs to do with his contract to afford him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 22, 2023, 03:23:46 PM
The RNA stuff was related to Jackson's refusal to confirm his vax status (widely believed to be anti), and that speaks very much to his intelligence and team commitment IMO. I think it's completely reasonable to factor in.
#JustZachWilsonThings
Post by: Coach K on January 23, 2023, 06:47:29 AM
Play football
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 23, 2023, 10:31:04 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 23, 2023, 10:43:51 AM
Vaxx Prescott yesterday
Post by: Heismanberg on January 23, 2023, 10:55:31 AM
https://twitter.com/angeliadesselle/status/1616809591928688641?s=46&t=P40dITusO7ne7DyPFIxUVA
Vaxx Prescott yesterday
lmao
Post by: delavan on January 23, 2023, 02:31:20 PM
https://giphy.com/gifs/season-13-the-simpsons-13x14-l2JdWLBzfxqpxePYI
Post by: Cane on January 23, 2023, 04:59:36 PM
I've already pivoted to Rodgers.I like the Rodgers option as my main choice. The contract after a trade really isn’t that bad. It opens up a decent window where the contract is heavy but not insurmountable, and a third year for one last run if we can figure out how to make it work. Considering we’d have GW/Sauce on the last of their rookie deals before long term contracts, it would be possible. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230123/75a841db72571ff3d2ad7399cc50815e.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on January 23, 2023, 05:22:38 PM
Hopefully they don't have to give up the world.
I don't know whether I'd rather have Rodgers and give up anton of picks or Carr without giving up much. Carr is younger but Rodgers is Rodgers.
I still think we end up with whatever is left after Rodgers, Lamar, Carr, and Jimmy G are gone.
Post by: Coach K on January 23, 2023, 05:39:09 PM
Lots of chatter about the Rodgers/Jets stuff. Too bad it won't happen soon. Waiting sucks.So brisset and minshew battle in camp
Hopefully they don't have to give up the world.
I don't know whether I'd rather have Rodgers and give up anton of picks or Carr without giving up much. Carr is younger but Rodgers is Rodgers.
I still think we end up with whatever is left after Rodgers, Lamar, Carr, and Jimmy G are gone.
That's my worst case scenario
I'd still take that over Jimmy g lol I hate the idea of paying for someone to be guaranteed injured
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 23, 2023, 05:55:20 PM
So brisset and minshew battle in camp
That's my worst case scenario
I'd still take that over Jimmy g lol I hate the idea of paying for someone to be guaranteed injured
Plot twist: Zach Wilson beats them both
Post by: Coach K on January 23, 2023, 06:07:37 PM
Plot twist: Zach Wilson beats them bothWhatever leads to functional offense and tds idc
I'm not trying to he a wet blanket I can get optimistic once we make a move just trying to be real about this lol
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 23, 2023, 06:31:17 PM
I like the Rodgers option as my main choice. The contract after a trade really isn’t that bad. It opens up a decent window where the contract is heavy but not insurmountable, and a third year for one last run if we can figure out how to make it work. Considering we’d have GW/Sauce on the last of their rookie deals before long term contracts, it would be possible. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230123/75a841db72571ff3d2ad7399cc50815e.jpg)
Who the freak is this guy???
Post by: bojanglesman on January 23, 2023, 06:55:37 PM
https://overthecap.com/the-salary-cap-impact-of-trading-for-aaron-rodgers
Interesting comment:
Quote
While I have no idea what a trade package for Rodgers would look like, given his huge salary this year and age, I can’t imagine a team throwing the farm for him since he may very well be a one year rental. Recent trades for Deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson, and Matt Stafford were for much younger players who were likely to sign extensions with their teams. Each was a trade with a logical time horizon of four to five years, not one. The two sides could easily set compensation based on performance in 2023 and Rodgers roster status in 2024.
Conditional picks, but maybe not that bad?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 23, 2023, 07:38:53 PM
freak I'll take either and smile though.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 23, 2023, 08:30:59 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 23, 2023, 08:31:32 PM
The Carr vs Rodgers debate has been fun but I’m ready to move on to discussing what we actually do when we inevitably get neitherLamar Jackson time, Playa.
Post by: Cane on January 23, 2023, 08:43:22 PM
Who the freak is this guy???(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230124/dcc7b0b0a070e51fc8a3ca8554f64532.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on January 23, 2023, 09:03:03 PM
The Carr vs Rodgers debate has been fun but I’m ready to move on to discussing what we actually do when we inevitably get neitherFap to Brissett hype videos.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 23, 2023, 09:22:49 PM
The Carr vs Rodgers debate has been fun but I’m ready to move on to discussing what we actually do when we inevitably get neither
Realistically… Ryan Tennehill or Jimmy G?
Post by: reuben on January 23, 2023, 09:40:31 PM
The Carr vs Rodgers debate has been fun but I’m ready to move on to discussing what we actually do when we inevitably get neither
Can I interest you in a nice frothy mug of Chad Henne?
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 23, 2023, 09:56:11 PM
Realistically… Ryan Tennehill or Jimmy G?Realistically, the backup plan is someone like that and a rookie. Maybe Zach factors in. Maybe White factors in. Maybe another vet factors in.
Post by: Coach K on January 23, 2023, 10:30:28 PM
Can I interest you in a nice frothy mug of Chad Henne?Rofl
Post by: ScotlandJet on January 24, 2023, 03:31:01 AM
Explains Rodgers' contract if a trade happened, in detail.
https://overthecap.com/the-salary-cap-impact-of-trading-for-aaron-rodgers
Interesting comment:
Conditional picks, but maybe not that bad?
I can't believe Rogers is even in the discussion. I realise most of you runts were probably at a pre school age the last time we sold the farm to get a Packers QB and what a disaster that turned out to be! Rogers by all accounts is every bit the Diva that Favre was - it's all about them. They can freak off!
It's Carr or the highway.
Post by: Badger on January 24, 2023, 06:30:22 AM
I can't believe Rogers is even in the discussion. I realise most of you runts were probably at a pre school age the last time we sold the farm to get a Packers QB and what a disaster that turned out to be! Rogers by all accounts is every bit the Diva that Favre was - it's all about them. They can freak off!Beggars can't be choosers, so all options are on the table. Unless you're willing to outright say you'd rather keep rolling with Zach Wilson than Aaron Rodgers.
It's Carr or the highway.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 24, 2023, 06:44:29 AM
Post by: Coach K on January 24, 2023, 07:49:52 AM
I can't believe Rogers is even in the discussion. I realise most of you runts were probably at a pre school age the last time we sold the farm to get a Packers QB and what a disaster that turned out to be! Rogers by all accounts is every bit the Diva that Favre was - it's all about them. They can freak off!Favre actually worked out . 8-2 till he tore his shoulder and was a dumbass and hid the severity to keep his streak alive lol
It's Carr or the highway.
That's him being dumb
Rodgers may not be everyone's cup of tea but dumb isn't a word I'd use to describe him . Nor would he play with one shoulder for a meaningless streak
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2023, 08:00:45 AM
The damage was done here and everyone wanted to clean house, but if we brought him back we probably play in 1, if not 2 Super Bowls
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 08:01:56 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 24, 2023, 08:45:56 AM
I think I'd slightly prefer Carr because he's younger and not dramatic.
you sure about that last part?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 08:58:58 AM
you sure about that last part?
I know he's quite Jesusy, but is that anything crazy in the NFL? Teammates seem to love him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 09:04:43 AM
Rogers is a better option than starting Zach Wilson but so is Taylor Heineckie. Personally I'd rather we take a shot on someone who could be here for a couple of seasons longer and provide adequate QB play while the rookie we inevitably draft to sit and learn for a season.
Post by: delavan on January 24, 2023, 09:24:54 AM
With Rogers comes the frustration of having to address the same problem next year. You’re essentially tabling the issue and kicking the “Jets need a QB” can down the road…
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2023, 09:29:34 AM
We wouldn't be getting a prime level Rogers here, the dude has clearly fallen off hard. I also doubt we'd be getting him for longer than a single season so either we think he makes us Super Bowl contenders automatically or Douglas and Saleh think he can provide just enough breathing room to keep their jobs safe for another season. Either way bringing him in would be extreme short term planning, markedly shorter than any other option save Tom Brady who also comes with his own set of problems.His contract runs through 2026 so I don't think it's a one year thing unless one party or other decides it is.
Rogers is a better option than starting Zach Wilson but so is Taylor Heineckie. Personally I'd rather we take a shot on someone who could be here for a couple of seasons longer and provide adequate QB play while the rookie we inevitably draft to sit and learn for a season.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 09:37:41 AM
His contract runs through 2026 so I don't think it's a one year thing unless one party or other decides it is.
He's going to be 40 years old and taken a lot more hits than Brady. I don't see him coming here and finishing out that contract.
Post by: MBGreen on January 24, 2023, 09:48:50 AM
He's going to be 40 years old and taken a lot more hits than Brady. I don't see him coming here and finishing out that contract.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230124/d4dd2ecf933304f6c2dc1e6bf327bfd3.gif)
Post by: Coach K on January 24, 2023, 09:51:27 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230124/d4dd2ecf933304f6c2dc1e6bf327bfd3.gif)Awww man kids in the hall
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2023, 09:56:39 AM
He's going to be 40 years old and taken a lot more hits than Brady. I don't see him coming here and finishing out that contract.He's pretty durable, since he became a starter in 2008 he's only twice missed games because of injury. And he's actually taken fewer sacks than Brady, albeit over a smaller number of games.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2023, 10:15:29 AM
We wouldn't be getting a prime level Rogers here, the dude has clearly fallen off hard. I also doubt we'd be getting him for longer than a single season so either we think he makes us Super Bowl contenders automatically or Douglas and Saleh think he can provide just enough breathing room to keep their jobs safe for another season. Either way bringing him in would be extreme short term planning, markedly shorter than any other option save Tom Brady who also comes with his own set of problems.
Rogers is a better option than starting Zach Wilson but so is Taylor Heineckie. Personally I'd rather we take a shot on someone who could be here for a couple of seasons longer and provide adequate QB play while the rookie we inevitably draft to sit and learn for a season.
I don’t disagree, but that Packers team was pretty derriere this year.
Jets are actually set up pretty well for him, other than OL.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 10:17:11 AM
With Rogers comes the frustration of having to address the same problem next year. You’re essentially tabling the issue and kicking the “Jets need a QB” can down the road…I'm fine with that. We need a QB in 2023. There aren't many great options available. If we can get a good option for 2023, I'll worry about 2024 in 2024.
Rodgers isn't as good as he once was, but is he better than Carr or Garoppolo or any non-Lamar candidate out there for 2023? Yes.
As with so many of the QB options, a lot depends on draft compensation and salary, but if the draft compensation is pretty cheap, which it should be for a guy who turns 40 in 11 months, I'm fine making the move for 1-2 years.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 24, 2023, 10:18:04 AM
I don’t disagree, but that Packers team was pretty derriere this year.
Jets are actually set up pretty well for him, other than OL.
Get rid of Berrios and Davis. Replace them with Lazard and Cobb on inexpensive deals.
OL will want to come here to play with Rodgers. We'll be a Super Bowl contender.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 10:31:37 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 10:45:49 AM
Quote
Update: The #Packers will not be trading Aaron Rodgers within the NFC Conference.
They "will explore" the idea of trading the QB exclusively to the AFC, per @AdamSchefter
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 10:54:14 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2023, 10:58:07 AM
Is it me or have the Packers tended to surround Rodgers with bigger wideouts? Not sure that would matter much, but it might play into what free agents we would go after to replace Davis or if they keep him. Obviously.a huge assumption on Rodgers coming here.
Some of the complimentary players over the years have been bigger guys. He went through a stretch where he was TE happy for some years.
His favorite targets were Jennings, then Jordy, then Cobb, then Devante. Not big guys.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 11:02:35 AM
Some of the complimentary players over the years have been bigger guys. He went through a stretch where he was TE happy for some years.Jordy was big. Davante is also bigger than Moore or Wilson.
His favorite targets were Jennings, then Jordy, then Cobb, then Devante. Not big guys.
I'm not worried about it at all though. And like Heismanberg said, if we bring in Rodgers, I assume Lazard might be joining him, and he's a good complement to what we already have.
Post by: MBGreen on January 24, 2023, 11:02:37 AM
https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1617925444912795648?t=V7l0kI8x6U84gWQfH8tbSw&s=19
good...that takes the NFC South off the table.
Our main competition could be the Phins.
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2023, 11:05:34 AM
good...that takes the NFC South off the table.And the Raiders.
Our main competition could be the Phins.
Post by: ScotlandJet on January 24, 2023, 11:09:37 AM
For me, the Favre trade wasn't so much a disaster. It showed the team it could win. Yeah, it ended up in a mess because Favre got injured but many of those players remained for the 2009 and 2010 seasons. And, a 9-7 record (9-8 or 10-7 now) would have taken us to the playoffs now. I'd do it again.
No.
I'm not wanting to derail the thread just clear up a couple of facts.
Farve's whole raison d'etre for coming to the Jets was to get back at Ted Thomson and manufacture a way to get to the Vikings.
We would have had the same success with Chad. He was a freaking liabliity and then started showing off his co*k to the female Jet staff via texts. Playing with an injury in games we should have been winning for his vanity. Freak off Favre!
Freak Favre!
Okay, back to discussing how we get Carr to New York..
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2023, 11:11:49 AM
Jordy was big. Davante is also bigger than Moore or Wilson.
I'm not worried about it at all though. And like Heismanberg said, if we bring in Rodgers, I assume Lazard might be joining him, and he's a good complement to what we already have.
Might be splitting hairs, but when I think of a “big” receiver I think of a DK Metcalf or Brandon Marshall. Jordy was the same height as Decker but I never really viewed him as a “big receiver”. Kupp is 6’2 but that’s not why he wins. Devante at 6’1 is pretty much average height for an elite receiver.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 11:12:06 AM
No.
I'm not wanting to derail the thread just clear up a couple of facts.
Farve's whole raison d'etre for coming to the Jets was to get back at Ted Thomson and manufacture a way to get to the Vikings.
We would have had the same success with Chad. He was a freaking liabliity and then started showing off his co*k to the female Jet staff via texts. Playing with an injury in games we should have been winning for his vanity. Freak off Favre!
Freak Favre!
Okay, back to discussing how we get Carr to New York..
Him sending dick pics was kinda funny, but probably not to the receiver of them.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 11:19:46 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 24, 2023, 11:21:01 AM
And like Heismanberg said, if we bring in Rodgers, I assume Lazard might be joining him, and he's a good complement to what we already have.
I think Lazard and Cobb will come with him.
Elijah Moore could be part of the trade package for Rodgers.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 11:23:52 AM
No.We need an "arguments of yesteryear" thread where we can rehash old arguments that we're still passionate about.
I'm not wanting to derail the thread just clear up a couple of facts.
Farve's whole raison d'etre for coming to the Jets was to get back at Ted Thomson and manufacture a way to get to the Vikings.
We would have had the same success with Chad. He was a freaking liabliity and then started showing off his co*k to the female Jet staff via texts. Playing with an injury in games we should have been winning for his vanity. Freak off Favre!
Freak Favre!
Okay, back to discussing how we get Carr to New York..
For example, I think the Favre trade was absolutely worth it. I don't care why he became a Jet. Other than 1998, the only time I felt the Jets had the best team in the NFL during the regular season was in 2008 when we were 8-3. Then Favre got hurt. If he stayed healthy, 2008 would have been a fantastic year. And Favre showed he had something left in the tank when he led Minnesota in 2010.
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2023, 11:25:29 AM
I think Lazard and Cobb will come with him.I can only get so erect.
Elijah Moore could be part of the trade package for Rodgers.
Post by: MBGreen on January 24, 2023, 11:25:45 AM
I think Lazard and Cobb will come with him.
Elijah Moore could be part of the trade package for Rodgers.
send them Shepherd too
Post by: insanity on January 24, 2023, 12:18:47 PM
I can't believe Rogers is even in the discussion. I realise most of you runts were probably at a pre school age the last time we sold the farm to get a Packers QB and what a disaster that turned out to be! Rogers by all accounts is every bit the Diva that Favre was - it's all about them. They can freak off!Trading for Favre was not a disaster we were 8-3 before he got hurt
It's Carr or the highway.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 24, 2023, 12:38:06 PM
Trading for Favre was not a disaster we were 8-3 before he got hurt
I hate Brett Favre more than any NYJ fan out there, but it was a move that damn near worked.
A big portion of our fanbase was so attached to Chad Pennington and that's why that move is viewed that way. We also didn't "sell the farm" for him. We traded a fourth rounder that became a third.
With that said, this is a very similar situation:
We've got a potential lameduck, defensive head coach and an owner that desperately wants an upgrade at QB again. It's an all-in move.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 12:54:13 PM
I hate Brett Favre more than any NYJ fan out there, but it was a move that damn near worked.Exactly how I feel. If the draft compensation is similar, this is the move to make. If it doesn't work, you can make a clean break from everyone.
A big portion of our fanbase was so attached to Chad Pennington and that's why that move is viewed that way. We also didn't "sell the farm" for him. We traded a fourth rounder that became a third.
With that said, this is a very similar situation:
We've got a potential lameduck, defensive head coach and an owner that desperately wants an upgrade at QB again. It's an all-in move.
And while it's an all-in move for 2023, it isn't like we traded away a ton of draft picks. We can still draft a QB in 2024 (or even 2023).
Plus, Rodgers is Wilson's idol. I know Rodgers isn't really a great mentor, but maybe that case could be different. If Rodgers is the QB, I think Wilson is fine as the backup.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2023, 12:56:19 PM
I hate Brett Favre more than any NYJ fan out there, but it was a move that damn near worked.
A big portion of our fanbase was so attached to Chad Pennington and that's why that move is viewed that way. We also didn't "sell the farm" for him. We traded a fourth rounder that became a third.
With that said, this is a very similar situation:
We've got a potential lameduck, defensive head coach and an owner that desperately wants an upgrade at QB again. It's an all-in move.
(https://media.tenor.com/70aU0bi1JNUAAAAM/chips-poker-chips.gif)
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2023, 01:00:57 PM
1) Jets
2) Raiders
3) Titans
4) Colts
We’re really not too far off from any of these teams on a level playing field (no QB) and you can make the argument we’re better
I’m just not sure what would make Rodgers come to NY. Maybe a choice of OC and a say in personnel, but he could prob get that wherever he goes.
Not sure if he’s a NY/Vegas type guy, I could see Tenn/Indy lifestyle being a better fit for him.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 24, 2023, 01:15:20 PM
Las Vegas has his old friend Davante Adams, but I can't see him wanting to play for Josh McDaniels.
Titans have pretty bad receivers, but an elite running back ...and they play in a city that he might prefer over LV and NJ.
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2023, 01:21:09 PM
AFC Teams that need a QB:Rodgers is big on the media stuff, didn't he guest present Jeopardy at some point? Maybe we get Brandon to give him a call and explain why NY is the right move.
1) Jets
2) Raiders
3) Titans
4) Colts
We’re really not too far off from any of these teams on a level playing field (no QB) and you can make the argument we’re better
I’m just not sure what would make Rodgers come to NY. Maybe a choice of OC and a say in personnel, but he could prob get that wherever he goes.
Not sure if he’s a NY/Vegas type guy, I could see Tenn/Indy lifestyle being a better fit for him.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 01:25:05 PM
Rodgers is big on the media stuff, didn't he guest present Jeopardy at some point? Maybe we get Brandon to give him a call and explain why NY is the right move.He dated an actress. He hosted Jeopardy. He's constantly drawing attention to himself for various things.
I don't see why the Jets situation is any worse than any of the other potential AFC teams. I have no idea what city he would prefer, but I don't see him as a guy who can't handle New York or would hate it. But we don't know.
Post by: delavan on January 24, 2023, 01:55:43 PM
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/joe-namath-says-new-york-jets-can-unretire-his-no-12-for-aaron-rodgers/4059251/?amp=1
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 01:59:19 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2023, 02:10:40 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 02:13:05 PM
Rodgers gets Saleh fired, return of Rex 2024.Rodgers gets Saleh fired, we bring in a good offensive-minded HC for the first time ever, and our rookie QB leads us to the playoffs in 2024.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 02:15:48 PM
https://twitter.com/JGrayJets/status/1617975991284158465
Post by: MBGreen on January 24, 2023, 02:17:03 PM
Apparently Rodgers was on McAfee and talked about the Jets a lot.
https://twitter.com/JGrayJets/status/1617975991284158465
lol Justin Gray
Post by: MBGreen on January 24, 2023, 02:20:25 PM
Notice how Gray didn't bother to link the clip in his tweet? He sucks.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 02:48:54 PM
I've seen this act before, Rodgers will be back in Green Bay, bank on it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 02:51:40 PM
if he's referring to the clip i watched earlier...that was from 3 months ago.Why would he be referring to a clip you watched from 3 months ago?
Notice how Gray didn't bother to link the clip in his tweet? He sucks.
He's referring to his appearance on the show today.
I don't know if he talked about the Jets a lot. Seems like that was overblown. But there was this.
https://twitter.com/CYJpod/status/1617979358236532736
Post by: Badger on January 24, 2023, 02:58:14 PM
Rodgers gets Saleh fired, we bring in a good offensive-minded HC for the first time ever, and our rookie QB leads us to the playoffs in 2024.Dowell Loggains/Spencer Rattler
Post by: Heismanberg on January 24, 2023, 03:02:38 PM
Dowell Loggains/Spencer Rattler
JACKASS
I'LL KILL YOU
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 03:10:29 PM
Dick summarizing what Smalls posted
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 03:20:40 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 03:46:18 PM
It is going to be magnificent when Aaron Rodgers teaches Zach how to turn his nerdiness into proper quarterback play, and we have our short-term and long-term solutions.
Won't happen in a million years. It would be a miracle if Rodgers produced any success here, let alone Wilson.
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2023, 04:27:56 PM
https://twitter.com/ByRyanWood/status/1617968020541906944?t=dWx4J6pgFqIDyXEOy3Llnw&s=19
Does not sound like someone ready to retire, and does not sound like he wants to just see out time without having another shot at a ring.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 04:39:10 PM
Thread:Sounds like it will be a give-and-take with leverage with the Packers.
https://twitter.com/ByRyanWood/status/1617968020541906944?t=dWx4J6pgFqIDyXEOy3Llnw&s=19
Does not sound like someone ready to retire, and does not sound like he wants to just see out time without having another shot at a ring.
Rodgers likely needs a restructure to come back. The team drafted his replacement a few years ago. It could make sense to move on now with the team's struggles this year.
If the Packers want to rebuild (or if they love Love), Rodgers is gone. If they want to make one more run, I assume Rodgers is back.
If he's gone, the Jets make as much sense as anyone.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 05:02:09 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 24, 2023, 05:28:50 PM
.
Post by: MBGreen on January 24, 2023, 05:30:24 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 05:54:24 PM
I won't be surprised if Rodgers drags this out either.
I feel like this is likely.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 24, 2023, 06:30:47 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 06:46:41 PM
Under no circumstances should they give up two firsts for a 39 year old who's becoming injury prone and takes his career year to year. And I love Rodgers. But that's an absurd price.
This is a correct take.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 06:47:14 PM
Under no circumstances should they give up two firsts for a 39 year old who's becoming injury prone and takes his career year to year. And I love Rodgers. But that's an absurd price.Yes. When I say I want Rodgers, I mean a reasonable price. Like a 3rd-round pick in 2023 and a conditional pick in 2024.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 24, 2023, 07:24:22 PM
I'd rather bring back Hackenberg
Quote
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
Follow
The #Packers will want at least two 1st round picks in a trade for QB Aaron Rodgers, Peter King shares in his column.
King adds that #Jets owner Woody Johnson would happily pay that price. The question remains if Rodgers even wants to play for NY.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 07:43:51 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 24, 2023, 08:02:06 PM
4. And was always my worst case scenario . You sign both Brisset and Minshew to compete . White a FA and I'd view zach as a QB3 developmental qb .
Lamar would be 1 if I thought he was possible .
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 08:12:56 PM
I mean, if you win a Super Bowl, it's worth it... But that's a massive if...
This team is not one Aaron Rodgers away from a Super Bowl. We need to fix the OLine (again) first and foremost.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 08:15:00 PM
freak that retarded trade valueI want to date Margot Robbie, but.....
I'd rather bring back Hackenberg
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 08:23:40 PM
This team is not one Aaron Rodgers away from a Super Bowl. We need to fix the OLine (again) first and foremost.If Aaron Rodgers plays like prime Aaron Rodgers, we could absolutely win a Super Bowl next year.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 08:28:37 PM
If Aaron Rodgers plays like prime Aaron Rodgers, we could absolutely win a Super Bowl next year.
When was the last time he did that?
How hard do you want to roll those dice?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2023, 08:42:37 PM
When was the last time he did that?
How hard do you want to roll those dice?
2021: 37 TD, 4 INT, 4115 yards.
2020: 48 TD, 5 INT, 4299 yards.
You can keep going back from there and it isn't that different. This year was an anomaly.
Post by: Coach K on January 24, 2023, 08:44:55 PM
When was the last time he did that?I mean when you get Rodgers
How hard do you want to roll those dice?
Couple things
Garrett wilson would be a 1500+ yd receiver
Elijah Moore would hit 1k
Uzomah would resemble what he was in CIN
FA OL would come here
There's actual things to account for
Hes past his prime but ive seen enough packers games last yr to know he's still got it .
If we go to the playoffs the 1st rd is drastically less valuable and I see us as a playoff lock with him
We can disagree but that's how I see it . Again not the optimal or 1st route I'd go
Carr for no draft capital is my preference
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2023, 09:19:30 PM
Under no circumstances should they give up two firsts for a 39 year old who's becoming injury prone and takes his career year to year. And I love Rodgers. But that's an absurd price.What about if they include David Bakhtiari as well? They want to rebuild, let's help them get their cap cleared.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 09:24:59 PM
2021: 37 TD, 4 INT, 4115 yards.
2020: 48 TD, 5 INT, 4299 yards.
You can keep going back from there and it isn't that different. This year was an anomaly.
I feel like most people aren't looking at this with a focus on the whole team.
I feel like a lot of this conversation is ignoring a lot of the big picture. Yes, a declining Rodgers is better than anyone we have at QB, but he's also significantly more expensive.
We already have home grown talent that we have to pay and several key positions we will have to get worse at in order to afford just him and Quinnen.
I realize that a lot, if not all of the QB upgrade options will require a large investment, but where is that actually going to take us? I don't see Rodgers lasting long enough for the investment to be worth it, especially not if it is actually two first round picks.
I don't see us bringing in Aaron Rodgers and making the Super Bowl, not with our cap situation, expiring contracts, and the reported required compensation. If that last part lessens, then maybe. But if that's the price, we're selling ourselves out for disappointment.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 09:25:24 PM
What about if they include David Bakhtiari as well? They want to rebuild, let's help them get their cap cleared.
We don't have the cap to do that.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 24, 2023, 09:36:30 PM
We don't have the cap to do that.
Didn’t what’s his name post Jason’s OTC report that the acquiring teams cap hit for Rodgers in 2023 would be about $15 million? And in 2024 it’s like $32.5 million? Most of his contract is situated in bonuses paid out after an expected retirement date in 2025 or something like that.
Edit: found it
https://overthecap.com/the-salary-cap-impact-of-trading-for-aaron-rodgers
If this is real, $15 million is something we can absorb and still improve elsewhere. I’m not saying this should be option A, and it damn well shouldn’t be 2 first round picks unless Rodgers is in for 3 years. But cap wise, we could make it work.
I do think this could be a 2nd or 3rd this year with a conditional next year based on playoff success and/MVP consideration performance from Rodgers. But straight up 2 1s? Not a deal I’m interested in when you compare the opportunity to bring in Carr for almost nothing, and like have 5+ years to build a winner around him
Post by: Badger on January 24, 2023, 10:12:40 PM
2021: 37 TD, 4 INT, 4115 yards.Almost all of the QBs we've been floating had relatively down years in 2022. Except Jimmy G who just didn't have a full year, but was on pace for a very good season.
2020: 48 TD, 5 INT, 4299 yards.
You can keep going back from there and it isn't that different. This year was an anomaly.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2023, 10:16:35 PM
The upside is the Super Bowl. That is a possibility if you make this trade.
The downside is you hamstring a roster that has a really nice core by nuking all our draft picks for a QB who turns 40 and is declining quickly.
If we're going to give up a ton of picks for a QB, it feels like Lamar is the better bet for the next 3-5 years. Rodgers is the better bet for 1 year.
If you took the Jets roster and replaced our QBs with top-5 QB play, we are one of the best teams in the NFL and a legitimate contender. But is Aaron Rodgers still going to be that guy, and how long is he going to be that guy?
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2023, 10:20:08 PM
I doubt Douglas would want to spend two first-round picks on Aaron Rodgers, but it might not be his decision.
Woddy gonna trade 3 1sts for Rodgers
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 24, 2023, 10:27:26 PM
Woddy gonna trade 3 1sts for Rodgers
I'm a Bengals or Chargers fan if this happens for as long as Woody is the owner.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 24, 2023, 11:04:05 PM
I doubt Douglas would want to spend two first-round picks on Aaron Rodgers, but it might not be his decision.
The upside is the Super Bowl. That is a possibility if you make this trade.
The downside is you hamstring a roster that has a really nice core by nuking all our draft picks for a QB who turns 40 and is declining quickly.
If we're going to give up a ton of picks for a QB, it feels like Lamar is the better bet for the next 3-5 years. Rodgers is the better bet for 1 year.
If you took the Jets roster and replaced our QBs with top-5 QB play, we are one of the best teams in the NFL and a legitimate contender. But is Aaron Rodgers still going to be that guy, and how long is he going to be that guy?
At this time I’d say 2 1s is posturing by the Packers. In a similar situation many years ago, the Packers trade Favre for. Conditional 4th that became a 3rd if he played 50% of snaps, a 2nd if he played 70% and Jets made the playoffs, and a 1st if he played the Jets to a super bowl.
I’m perfectly fine with the second pick being conditional in similar ways. Rather than PT then I would say returning to the team in 2024 etc, trumped by a super bowl appearance in 2023 is fine. But identifying what the 2023 pick should be is tricky. We want our top 2 picks to use to build around Rodgers and or as trade assets. But you don’t get Rodgers for free either.
I’d still prefer Carr, but you can’t deny Rodgers would make for an exciting year or two. Favre fell off, but 2008 was exciting no matter how you slice it.
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2023, 11:16:00 PM
a QB who turns 40 and is declining quickly.
League MVP the last two seasons does not scream "declining quickly" to me. Obviously he's not winning it this year but his roster is mostly excrement.
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 12:05:20 AM
You can use trade talks as legal tampering to gauge what he might want contractually anyways
I want this over with tbh it's exhausting going in circles over 4 ot 5 guys
Sanchez isn't as good as Carr and we got two AFCCGs there
Carr and Rodgers are my two preferences
Oh well were gonna get Mike White part deux everyone goes elsewhere lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 25, 2023, 12:34:55 AM
I don't know what he will be. The positive is he's league MVP 2 of last 3 seasons, but quarterbacks sometimes fall off quickly, and we don't know how long Rodgers wants to do this.
League MVP the last two seasons does not scream "declining quickly" to me. Obviously he's not winning it this year but his roster is mostly excrement.
I can put aside most of the nonsense around Rodgers, but he was already skipping voluntary workouts. Is he going to show up here? How much does he care? How long will he play?
Without draft picks involved, he is by far the best option, salary be damned. But when multiple high picks is the price, you have to consider everything.
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 06:13:04 AM
And 2 first round picks is ridiculous. Offer them a 2024 3rd that can escalate to a 2nd...and a 4th this year.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 25, 2023, 08:07:03 AM
-It isn't just $15 million on the cap for Rodgers. That # means a shitload gets punted to 2024, whether he's still here or not. It's not like it's $15 million and we are done. Basically putting him on a credit card. A good GM has to think about the future some too.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 25, 2023, 08:09:21 AM
(https://media.tenor.com/BXl-zKOKjF8AAAAC/ludes-the-wolf-of-wall-street.gif)
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 08:17:05 AM
Just get Rodgers Quaaludes and throw him out there on Sunday.
(https://media.tenor.com/BXl-zKOKjF8AAAAC/ludes-the-wolf-of-wall-street.gif)
I'd treat ludes like pez
Post by: delavan on January 25, 2023, 09:11:15 AM
I need to see how things play out with Carr and Lamar first....if they're off the table, then i'd pivot to Rodgers.If it’s Rogers then draft-wise I’d think of switching from an OT to WR in the 1st and going from tbere.
And 2 first round picks is ridiculous.
Offer them a 2024 3rd that can escalate to a 2nd...and a 4th this year.
If Lamar, how are you going to keep a Garrett Wilson (& bitchy Elijah) happy with fewer looks?
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 09:12:10 AM
If it’s Rogers then draft-wise I’d think of switching from an OT to WR in the 1st and going from tbere.
If Lamar, how are you going to keep a Garrett Wilson happy with fewer looks?
start by not hiring a run-first OC like Greg Roman
Post by: delavan on January 25, 2023, 09:14:24 AM
start by not hiring a run-first OC like Greg RomanFair enough but now how do you revamp your offensive personnel to center everything around Lamar?
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 09:19:38 AM
Fair enough but now how do you revamp your offensive personnel to center everything around Lamar?
Well, our skill players are scheme agnostic. And we're currently revamping our offensive philosophy with a new OC hire...so i don't believe a complete overhaul is required for Lamar.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 25, 2023, 09:26:29 AM
I doubt Douglas would want to spend two first-round picks on Aaron Rodgers, but it might not be his decision.
The upside is the Super Bowl. That is a possibility if you make this trade.
The downside is you hamstring a roster that has a really nice core by nuking all our draft picks for a QB who turns 40 and is declining quickly.
If we're going to give up a ton of picks for a QB, it feels like Lamar is the better bet for the next 3-5 years. Rodgers is the better bet for 1 year.
If you took the Jets roster and replaced our QBs with top-5 QB play, we are one of the best teams in the NFL and a legitimate contender. But is Aaron Rodgers still going to be that guy, and how long is he going to be that guy?
I can see the Jets going the way of the Rams, mortgaging the future to win a Superbowl...but just never winning one
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 09:29:42 AM
I can see the Jets going the way of the Rams, mortgaging the future to win a Superbowl...but just never winning one
Joe Douglas covets the draft too much to go the Rams' route.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 25, 2023, 09:37:12 AM
I can see the Jets going the way of the Rams, mortgaging the future to win a Superbowl...but just never winning one
We don't need to add as many pieces as the Rams though.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 25, 2023, 09:40:13 AM
Post by: delavan on January 25, 2023, 09:53:28 AM
Quote from: MBGreen
Well, our skill players are scheme agnostic. And we're currently revamping our offensive philosophy with a new OC hire...so i don't believe a complete overhaul is required for Lamar.
Lamar is not going to be a free agent.Or forget the veteran option by swinging for the fence and drafting Anthony Richardson? *spitballing*
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 25, 2023, 09:56:20 AM
Or forget the veteran option by swinging for the fence and drafting Anthony Richardson? *spitballing*Given our circumstances, something like that is definitely a strong option if we don't get Carr, Lamar or Rodgers.
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 10:05:42 AM
Lamar is not going to be a free agent.
I don't see a contract signed yet
Post by: Heismanberg on January 25, 2023, 10:10:42 AM
I don't see a contract signed yet
They will franchise him
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 10:14:28 AM
They will franchise him
that's fine as long as it's the Non-Exclusive Rights version.
We just need a seat at the table.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 25, 2023, 10:17:33 AM
that's fine as long as it's the Non-Exclusive Rights version.
We just need a seat at the table.
You'd have better odds banging Lena Dunham while you're sober.
Post by: Badger on January 25, 2023, 10:21:54 AM
I need to see how things play out with Carr and Lamar first....if they're off the table, then i'd pivot to Rodgers.Definitely start off with an offer like that.
And 2 first round picks is ridiculous. Offer them a 2024 3rd that can escalate to a 2nd...and a 4th this year.
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 10:28:59 AM
You'd have better odds banging Lena Dunham while you're sober.
*sigh*...get the condoms
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 10:53:56 AM
Or forget the veteran option by swinging for the fence and drafting Anthony Richardson? *spitballing*Black Wilson who needs to sit a year ? Lol
Great prospect . Absurd ceiling. But he definitely is not ready to start yr 1
I've got a late 1st to 2nd rd grade on him off ceiling alone
Once the combine is over I think we'd need to draft him at 13 lol which I don't want to do
But hes raw and if hurts took years with that staff I'd hope we have patience for any qb we draft from here on out
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 10:54:44 AM
I think its sensible and fair for both sides
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 25, 2023, 11:01:36 AM
A realistic offer for Rodgers is a 2nd this yr and a 3rd next yr conditional 2nd if we make playoffs and 1st if we make SBI hope conditions are a big part of the deal.
I think its sensible and fair for both sides
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 11:03:15 AM
I hope conditions are a big part of the deal.I want Rodgers and JD would be dumb not to have something in there
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 11:06:32 AM
Mortgage some earlier picks for a 2 yr window
Then if we get close or win one he buys himself a ton of time
Throw in Elijah as a sweetener and draft a WR at 13
Rodgers would attract WR or OL via FA
There's a lot of extenuating circumstances that make it more enticing than people think especially if the numbers of 15.7 against the cap in 23 and 42 in 24 with the rest coming out of woodys pockets
It makes a lot of sense lol
Post by: bojanglesman on January 25, 2023, 11:07:45 AM
Carr and Jimmy G, maybe Tannehill will be the best options. I'm thinking we end up with one of the last 2. Not ideal, but at least an upgrade until they die on the field.
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 11:09:18 AM
I ultimately don't think Lamar or Rodgers will leave their current teams. Lamar will get franchised and likely a new contract. Rodgers...well, this is all part of his standard offseason drama protocol.
Carr and Jimmy G, maybe Tannehill will be the best options. I'm thinking we end up with one of the last 2. Not ideal, but at least an upgrade until they die on the field.
Jimmy G isn't a good option because the regular season is longer than 4 games.
Joe Douglas will swing for the fences on a QB. Get your popcorn ready.
Post by: delavan on January 25, 2023, 11:11:37 AM
Black Wilson who needs to sit a year ? Lol
Great prospect . Absurd ceiling. But he definitely is not ready to start yr 1
I've got a late 1st to 2nd rd grade on him off ceiling alone
Once the combine is over I think we'd need to draft him at 13 lol which I don't want to do
But hes raw and if hurts took years with that staff I'd hope we have patience for any qb we draft from here on out
Black Zach
Post by: bojanglesman on January 25, 2023, 11:11:46 AM
Jimmy G isn't a good option because the regular season is longer than 4 games.
Joe Douglas will swing for the fences on a QB. Get your popcorn ready.
Can't hit a home run if no one throws the pitch.
Post by: delavan on January 25, 2023, 11:19:18 AM
A realistic offer for Rodgers is a 2nd this yr and a 3rd next yr conditional 2nd if we make playoffs and 1st if we make SBThen with the ‘23 1st still in hand use it to draft ‘sit & learn’ Richardson.
I think its sensible and fair for both sides
Post by: Johnny English on January 25, 2023, 11:29:42 AM
Then with the ‘23 1st still in hand use it to draft ‘sit & learn’ Richardson.
If you're trading for Rodgers then his relationship with Zach is probably part of the reason, because I don't believe we're giving up on a QB after two years. So I can't see us also drafting a QB, especially not with a first round pick.
I honestly have no idea what they think of Love but if they're not convinced enough by him then it's possible that Zach could be part of a trade.
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 11:40:48 AM
Can't hit a home run if no one throws the pitch.
he'll get pitches...right down the middle.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 25, 2023, 11:42:22 AM
he'll get Jimmy G, Tannehill...right down the middle.
fyp
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 11:44:09 AM
Then with the ‘23 1st still in hand use it to draft ‘sit & learn’ Richardson.If we're mortgaging capital for Rodgers I'd probably get a OL or WR rd 1
You just hope Rodgers teaches Zach something .
I also don't want to roll the dice at 13 on qb when we can get a plug and play at position of need
Just me though
Post by: MBGreen on January 25, 2023, 11:44:11 AM
fyp
Nah...woody is involved now.
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 11:44:44 AM
fypI definitely would not be purchasing Sunday ticket then lol
Post by: Badger on January 25, 2023, 11:52:40 AM
Blach WilsonBlack Wilson
Black Zach
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 25, 2023, 12:10:23 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 05:10:57 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 05:21:28 PM
Blach WilsonThis was what I was implying lol
Post by: Heismanberg on January 25, 2023, 06:08:05 PM
Zach Freeman
Joe Blacco
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 06:11:59 PM
Joe BlaccoJust wait till I get my Jordan Travis legendary Shonen Jump Team Friendship power megamix thread going next yr
Post by: Heismanberg on January 25, 2023, 06:16:49 PM
Just wait till I get my Jordan Travis legendary Shonen Jump Team Friendship power megamix thread going next yr
*USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST*
Post by: Coach K on January 25, 2023, 07:04:15 PM
*USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST*Lol
Post by: delavan on January 25, 2023, 07:51:35 PM
If you're trading for Rodgers then his relationship with Zach is probably part of the reason, because I don't believe we're giving up on a QB after two years. So I can't see us also drafting a QB, especially not with a first round pick.Remember, my post was me *spitballing* based off the board consensus that Zach was a lost cause and that we would/should be moving on from him as in e.g. acquiring Carr.
I honestly have no idea what they think of Love but if they're not convinced enough by him then it's possible that Zach could be part of a trade.
If we were to get Rogers for (as it was mentioned) a 2nd in the upcoming draft and if the game plan were also to include having Rogers mentor a retained Zach then of course grab a pick tailored around the new starting QB and in the case of Rogers I might (might) even elect to go WR (OSU/USC) over the OT.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 25, 2023, 09:34:25 PM
Then with the ‘23 1st still in hand use it to draft ‘sit & learn’ Richardson.
Absolutely not. If you go all in with Rodgers, you have one year to win it all, and potentially two. You do not, cannot, and damn well better not take a resource to make the team around him as good as possible off the table. You get him a WR, an OT, trade down and grab the top safety or LB, whatever you think is the best way to make the 2023 team better.
Richardson does NOT make the 2023 Jets a better team. Best case, we develop him and he’s good to go in 2025. Given how we just developed a QB with this very regime, I don’t think it’s extremely likely. Put every available piece possible around Rodgers to win right now.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 25, 2023, 11:00:11 PM
Absolutely not. If you go all in with Rodgers, you have one year to win it all, and potentially two. You do not, cannot, and damn well better not take a resource to make the team around him as good as possible off the table. You get him a WR, an OT, trade down and grab the top safety or LB, whatever you think is the best way to make the 2023 team better.This. If we still keep 13 in a Rodgers trade, you use it on an offensive linemen, a wide receiver, or a defensive player. In fact, Zach makes a ton of sense as the backup to Rodgers.
Richardson does NOT make the 2023 Jets a better team. Best case, we develop him and he’s good to go in 2025. Given how we just developed a QB with this very regime, I don’t think it’s extremely likely. Put every available piece possible around Rodgers to win right now.
Post by: delavan on January 26, 2023, 12:31:16 AM
Absolutely not. If you go all in with Rodgers, you have one year to win it all, and potentially two. You do not, cannot, and damn well better not take a resource to make the team around him as good as possible off the table.pssst, read my post immediately above yours.....or ignore it as you've done here
You get him a WR, an OT, trade down and grab the top safety or LB, whatever you think is the best way to make the 2023 team better.
Richardson does NOT make the 2023 Jets a better team. Best case, we develop him and he’s good to go in 2025. Given how we just developed a QB with this very regime, I don’t think it’s extremely likely. Put every available piece possible around Rodgers to win right now.
Quote from: Derek Smalls
This. If we still keep 13 in a Rodgers trade, you use it on an offensive linemen, a wide receiver, or a defensive player.pssst, read my latest post above as well. In addition, your 'keep Zach' flies in the face of you and dcm trashing Zach at every turn.
In fact, Zach makes a ton of sense as the backup to Rodgers.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 03:20:47 AM
pssst, read my post immediately above yours.....or ignore it as you've done hereHe was terrible. But he is under contract and he's still 23 for 6 more months. I highly doubt he reaches his potential, but having him be the primary backup to Rodgers is a good spot IMO. He can sit and watch from his idol.
pssst, read my latest post above as well. In addition, your 'keep Zach' flies in the face of you and dcm trashing Zach at every turn.
If we ger Aaron Rodgers, we are likely going cheap on QB2 and we probably want to get a young guy in there to develop. Zach can be that young guy we are developing. I don't have confidence if he does well if he plays, but if you're paying Aaron Rodgers $50+M, you're not really building a team to survive him getting hurt for very long.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2023, 05:23:49 AM
This. If we still keep 13 in a Rodgers trade, you use it on an offensive linemen, a wide receiver, or a defensive player. In fact, Zach makes a ton of sense as the backup to Rodgers.Punter, best I can do.
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2023, 07:53:54 AM
if you're paying Aaron Rodgers $50+M
I don't believe we are. If we trade for him then the Packers eat a massive cap hit because they've already paid him a ton of future cash which accelerates to their 2023 cap, I don't believe there's any way we end up stuck with that. It's complex but as far as I can tell I think his deal would be about $30M next year for us.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 26, 2023, 08:09:44 AM
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 08:10:18 AM
Rodgers literally said yesterday on McAfee he exptlects his deal to be re negotiated if he's trade
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 08:10:55 AM
Not even that, just 15M next week and 32M in 2024Yep . It's totally doable .
Just the dead money after 25 and like I said he said he's open to re negotiate
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 08:23:10 AM
Not even that, just 15M next week and 32M in 2024That's if it's post June. So the conundrum is do you want while every other qb finds a home
Or do you have a deal in place before June 1 and keept it quite
If they get into a staring contest and we put all the eggs in this basket who knows
Or we may be blowing up their phone to get it done .
I just wanna pick an OC and QB and figure out the direction at this point
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 11:25:27 AM
I don't believe we are. If we trade for him then the Packers eat a massive cap hit because they've already paid him a ton of future cash which accelerates to their 2023 cap, I don't believe there's any way we end up stuck with that. It's complex but as far as I can tell I think his deal would be about $30M next year for us.I just threw a number out there, but that isn't really the point.
If you're going all in for Aaron Rodgers, we should focus on spending our money and draft picks on helping Aaron Rodgers and the Jets win a Super Bowl. If Rodgers gets hurt, and we have to play the backup, we are likely fucked regardless.
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2023, 11:32:02 AM
I just threw a number out there, but that isn't really the point.
If you're going all in for Aaron Rodgers, we should focus on spending our money and draft picks on helping Aaron Rodgers and the Jets win a Super Bowl. If Rodgers gets hurt, and we have to play the backup, we are likely fucked regardless.
Yes agreed on that front. I think I'm more trying to make the salary position clear to defuse the inevitable "you can't possibly give up that much draft capital!" argument, because we're talking about a guy who is one year removed from successive League MVPs for less than Kyler Murray or Jared Goff are making and that's going to come with a trade cost. Of course the fact that GB won't trade him to the NFC and Rodgers himself gets to veto anyone he wants helps us, but I think there will be a draft price to pay that's higher than people seem to be expecting.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 11:34:11 AM
Yes agreed on that front. I think I'm more trying to make the salary position clear to defuse the inevitable "you can't possibly give up that much draft capital!" argument, because we're talking about a guy who is one year removed from successive League MVPs for less than Kyler Murray or Jared Goff are making and that's going to come with a trade cost. Of course the fact that GB won't trade him to the NFC and Rodgers himself gets to veto anyone he wants helps us, but I think there will be a draft price to pay that's higher than people seem to be expecting.It's definitely going to be a higher price than I thought it would be a week ago.
Granted, the best thing Joe Douglas has done as Jets GM is make trades. I'm a little worried he has no leverage with Woody around, but JD has been good at trades.
The fun thing about Rodgers is that I believe it makes sense for GB to trade him after June 1. So this could drag on.
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 11:36:05 AM
It's definitely going to be a higher price than I thought it would be a week ago.
Granted, the best thing Joe Douglas has done as Jets GM is make trades. I'm a little worried he has no leverage with Woody around, but JD has been good at trades.
The fun thing about Rodgers is that I believe it makes sense for GB to trade him after June 1. So this could drag on.
If this happens, the Jets should pivot.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 11:37:40 AM
If this happens, the Jets should pivot.To what? Carr will be gone first. Lamar probably isn't going anywhere. It's probably Rodgers, some cheaper vet, and/or a draft pick at that point.
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 11:38:51 AM
To what? Carr will be gone first. Lamar probably isn't going anywhere. It's probably Rodgers, some cheaper vet, and/or a draft pick at that point.
a different direction. You can't sit on Rodgers till June. What if he decides to retire?
By "pivot", i mean, get some semblance of what Rodgers wants to do asap...then make a decision to go in a different direction before March hopefully
Post by: insanity on January 26, 2023, 11:39:13 AM
If this happens, the Jets should pivot.You can make a trade now that goes into effect in june.
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 11:40:24 AM
You can make a trade now that goes into effect in june.
that's a lot of time between now and june. And trades can be rescinded or he could retire.
you would need an answer asap so you don't lose out on the other available QBs
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 11:42:03 AM
that's a lot of time between now and june. And trades can be rescinded or he could retire.Jump on the Carr train for the plane team
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2023, 11:43:16 AM
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 11:43:51 AM
We could always do what we did a few years ago, I forget the players involved but we signed a vet as an FA then got someone better later in the offseason and let the first guy walk. So we could pick up a mediocre player as insurance and still pursue Rodgers.Brisset or minshew
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 11:44:51 AM
Jump on the Carr train for the plane team
I'm on the Carr, Rodgers and Lamar trains simultaneously.
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 11:45:17 AM
I'm on the Carr, Rodgers and Lamar trains simultaneously.Give up on Lamar. Not happening lol
But yeah I agree with all 3
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 11:46:14 AM
Give up on Lamar. Not happening lol
But yeah I agree with all 3
I'll never give up until he signs a contract
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 26, 2023, 11:49:51 AM
We could always do what we did a few years ago, I forget the players involved but we signed a vet as an FA then got someone better later in the offseason and let the first guy walk. So we could pick up a mediocre player as insurance and still pursue Rodgers.
Sign Teddy Bridgewater, then trade him for a 3rd after we trade for Rodgers
Post by: insanity on January 26, 2023, 11:50:27 AM
I'm on the Carr, Rodgers and Lamar trains simultaneously.Slut
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 11:51:17 AM
Slut
SUCK ME BEAUTIFUL!!
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2023, 11:53:04 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2023, 11:55:33 AM
Sign Teddy Bridgewater, then trade him for a 3rd after we trade for Rodgers
I prefer Brissett, as steady but unexciting QBs go he's the dictionary definition. We win 10 games with him under center in 2022 - I don't think we come back against Cleveland, but we do beat NE and Miami twice.
Post by: Badger on January 26, 2023, 12:08:51 PM
I'm like a newly single dude who's wife left him for another lady. I'll take pretty much anything that isn't Zach Wilson. The bar is low for me.This is the correct position for anyone who's done with Zach.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 12:12:41 PM
We could always do what we did a few years ago, I forget the players involved but we signed a vet as an FA then got someone better later in the offseason and let the first guy walk. So we could pick up a mediocre player as insurance and still pursue Rodgers.We've done that a few times
- Sign Teddy Bridgewater and then dump him
- Cut Chad and trade for Favre early in camp
- Enter draft with Kellen Clemens and Brett Ratliff
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 12:18:04 PM
I'm like a newly single dude who's wife left him for another lady. I'll take pretty much anything that isn't Zach Wilson. The bar is low for me.Hhahahaha
Post by: insanity on January 26, 2023, 12:35:55 PM
that's a lot of time between now and june. And trades can be rescinded or he could retire.That's not how it works. You submit the trade with the league and have it go into effect in June. There is no backing out.
you would need an answer asap so you don't lose out on the other available QBs
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 12:50:44 PM
Now we wait
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 12:57:39 PM
We either trade for Rodgers or carr by the raiders deadline or sign Carr post cut
Now we wait
I don't like waiting
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 01:04:46 PM
I don't like waitingWell I complained about it and Hackett was hired within the hour rofl
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 01:05:21 PM
Trying to reverse psychology the football gods MB
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 01:06:19 PM
Damnit I don't want Lamar Rodgers or Carr here and I hate waiting to find out
Trying to reverse psychology the football gods MB
You're gonna need to murder Joe Namath to satisfy their blood lust for this franchise.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 26, 2023, 01:07:15 PM
Damnit I don't want Lamar Rodgers or Carr here and I hate waiting to find out
Trying to reverse psychology the football gods MB
It doesn't work if you admit it.
This is how we get Baker Mayfield.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2023, 01:07:45 PM
You're gonna need to murder Joe Namath to satisfy their blood lust for this franchise.
Prepare your bum for Brissett.
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 01:09:37 PM
It doesn't work if you admit it.Whatever happens happens I'm ordering both a minshew and brisset jersey now
This is how we get Baker Mayfield.
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 01:10:13 PM
Prepare your bum for Brissett.
still better than Flacco
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2023, 01:11:03 PM
still better than Flacco
True.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 26, 2023, 02:18:08 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 26, 2023, 02:21:21 PM
If we get Rodgers, I'm sure we'll be signing Lazard/Cobb.
Possibly Tonyan too
---
replacing Corey Davis and Braxton Berrios with Allen Lazard and Randall Cobb would be a plus
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 26, 2023, 02:30:07 PM
Rodgers is reported as saying he’ll only play next season if he can play with Jeff “Steve Smith” Smith
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2023, 02:38:34 PM
As long as we can hold on to Jeff SmithDortch inbound.
Rodgers is reported as saying he’ll only play next season if he can play with Jeff “Steve Smith” Smith
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 26, 2023, 02:48:38 PM
And I did not speak out
Because I was not Greg Dortch
Then they came for the Chuma Edoga
And I did not speak out
Because I was not Chuma Edoga
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 02:51:44 PM
First they came for the Greg DortchHahahaah post of the day
And I did not speak out
Because I was not Greg Dortch
Then they came for the Chuma Edoga
And I did not speak out
Because I was not Chuma Edoga
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 02:55:10 PM
Possibly Tonyan tooI don't think Tonyan makes much sense. We can't really dump Conklin or Uzomah, and Tonyan is another mediocre tight end at their level.
---
replacing Corey Davis and Braxton Berrios with Allen Lazard and Randall Cobb would be a plus
I agree Davis/Berrios for Lazard/Cobb seems likely in a Rodgers move.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 26, 2023, 02:59:33 PM
We can't really dump Conklin or Uzomah
We could trade them...
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 03:19:42 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 26, 2023, 03:20:24 PM
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1618719575478247424
one of the most anti-NYJ accounts out there
Post by: reuben on January 26, 2023, 03:24:52 PM
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1618719575478247424
Due for regression? All these 24 year-olds are about to fall off the cliff, huh.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2023, 03:41:16 PM
Due for regression? All these 24 year-olds are about to fall off the cliff, huh.They might literally fall a cliff.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 03:43:54 PM
Due for regression? All these 24 year-olds are about to fall off the cliff, huh.The one thing I've heard on defense is we are due for injury regression. We were very healthy on defense all year.
Hopefully you make up for it by improvement of young guys and more turnovers (and a better offense) can help the defense maintain or improve, especially if we are healthy.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 26, 2023, 03:44:34 PM
The one thing I've heard on defense is we are due for injury regression. We were very healthy on defense all year.
STFU
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2023, 03:59:12 PM
The one thing I've heard on defense is we are due for injury regression. We were very healthy on defense all year.
That doesn't make any sense. There is no standard mean to which all teams must regress or progress, in fact fewer injuries in one season should statistically and logically favour a lower volume the next year assuming other variables remain constant. And as you point out, an improved offense which we are all expecting and frankly shouldn't be difficult will further support the existing positive rate.
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 04:03:39 PM
Post by: delavan on January 26, 2023, 04:08:56 PM
one of the most anti-NYJ accounts out thereTo underscore your point here's an article from that same "Football Perspective" site from October:
https://www.footballperspective.com/football-in-the-northeast-is-back/
"The New England Patriots, New York Giants, New York Giants and Philadelphia Eagles are undeniably in the northeast."
Aaron Rogers on Hackett pre-Denver:
https://twitter.com/mattschneidman/status/1618649678681370625
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 04:12:36 PM
That doesn't make any sense. There is no standard mean to which all teams must regress or progress, in fact fewer injuries in one season should statistically and logically favour a lower volume the next year assuming other variables remain constant. And as you point out, an improved offense which we are all expecting and frankly shouldn't be difficult will further support the existing positive rate.Sauce, Quinnen, DJ, Whitehead, Carter, Kwon, JFM and Lawson combined to miss 1 game. It's not really regression as much as we got lucky that we had no major defensive injuries.
Of course, the offense had a ton of injuries, and hopefully we get luckier there.
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2023, 04:18:18 PM
Sauce, Quinnen, DJ, Whitehead, Carter, Kwon, JFM and Lawson combined to miss 1 game. It's not really regression as much as we got lucky that we had no major defensive injuries.
Of course, the offense had a ton of injuries, and hopefully we get luckier there.
OK, but injuries are a function of technique and conditioning and training more than they are luck. Can't do anything about a player rolling up on your leg, but you can be stronger and faster and better planted to reduce the likelihood of it happening.
Also, JJ and Joyner both missed multiple weeks.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 04:21:17 PM
OK, but injuries are a function of technique and conditioning and training more than they are luck. Can't do anything about a player rolling up on your leg, but you can be stronger and faster and better planted to reduce the likelihood of it happening.Injuries are about lots of things. Luck is absolutely one of them. Breece didn't tear his knee because he was poorly conditioned. When Zach hurts himself cutting in a preseason game, that isn't about technique or conditioning. And like you said, when an OL gets rolled up on from behind, that isn't conditioning.
Also, JJ and Joyner all missed multiple weeks.
Whitehead played every game. If your argument is that our worst defensive starter and a rotational DE missed 3 games each, you're proving my point that the defense was very healthy last year. I'll even give you Quincy missing 2 weeks. Still very healthy compared to almost any other defense in the NFL
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 26, 2023, 04:21:29 PM
And the way we handle that Quinnen contract is 100% going to affect what kind of FAs we can draw/keep.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 26, 2023, 04:32:59 PM
Defense is going to regress hard if we spend all of our cap on a QB and can’t get Quinnen signed or replace the expiring LB and safety contracts.
And the way we handle that Quinnen contract is 100% going to affect what kind of FAs we can draw/keep.
I'm not advocating for any fuckery with Q
But between his 5th year option and the tag, he's under team control two more years.
So unless we decide to trade him for a bounty, I couldn't see a Qless jets happening before 2025
And its pretty common for expensive players to get tagged, so again I don't see this as a scenario effecting our FA draw before 25 as well
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 26, 2023, 05:02:30 PM
Our D probably overperformed to some degree this season and we happened to play a bunch of bad QBs
Post by: dcm1602 on January 26, 2023, 05:20:35 PM
I don’t think it’s a crazy statement.
Our D probably overperformed to some degree this season and we happened to play a bunch of bad QBs
We also happened to have one of the worst offenses in the league
Which surely impacted the way many teams played against us
But the QB injuries was probably king
Post by: delavan on January 26, 2023, 05:34:33 PM
• The Falcons traded Matt Ryan (37 years old) to the Colts for a third-round pick.
• The Seahawks traded Russell Wilson (34) and a fourth-round pick to the Broncos for two first-round and two second-round picks, a fifth-rounder and three players (QB Drew Lock, DL Shelby Harris, TE Noah Fant).
• The Texans traded Deshaun Watson (27) and a sixth-round pick to the Browns for three first-round, one third-round and two fourth-round picks.
• The Colts traded Carson Wentz (30) and a second-round pick to the Commanders for one second-round and two third-round picks.
• In 2021, the Lions traded Matthew Stafford (then 33) to the Rams for two first-round and one third-round pick, plus QB Jared Goff.
then what for Rogers?
granted, different strokes for different strokes (and circumstances)
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 05:49:33 PM
We also happened to have one of the worst offenses in the leagueExactly. Our defense might not be top 3 next year. But it should still be very good. And the offense would immediately go from terrible to pretty good just with the addition of Rodgers and a couple JAG offensive linemen.
Which surely impacted the way many teams played against us
But the QB injuries was probably king
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2023, 05:52:10 PM
IF
• The Falcons traded Matt Ryan (37 years old) to the Colts for a third-round pick.
• The Seahawks traded Russell Wilson (34) and a fourth-round pick to the Broncos for two first-round and two second-round picks, a fifth-rounder and three players (QB Drew Lock, DL Shelby Harris, TE Noah Fant).
• The Texans traded Deshaun Watson (27) and a sixth-round pick to the Browns for three first-round, one third-round and two fourth-round picks.
• The Colts traded Carson Wentz (30) and a second-round pick to the Commanders for one second-round and two third-round picks.
• In 2021, the Lions traded Matthew Stafford (then 33) to the Rams for two first-round and one third-round pick, plus QB Jared Goff.
then what for Rogers?
granted, different strokes for different strokes (and circumstances)
My guess: a first, a conditional third that can rise.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 26, 2023, 06:06:48 PM
My guess: a first, a conditional third that can rise.
I would not give up a 1st and an additional pick for a 39 year old QB. Don't care who.
Post by: reuben on January 26, 2023, 06:10:36 PM
I would not give up a 1st and an additional pick for a 39 year old QB. Don't care who.
I wouldn't give a first for Rodgers.
I watched this dude all season: if it ain't gone, it's certainly going.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 26, 2023, 06:18:35 PM
I wouldn't give a first for Rodgers.
I watched this dude all season: if it ain't gone, it's certainly going.
But...but...his legacy1!!1
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2023, 06:26:41 PM
I wouldn't give a first for Rodgers.
I watched this dude all season: if it ain't gone, it's certainly going.
I would. We're trying to win right now and he's our best chance to do that. He doesn't need to be at his peak, he just needs to be competent with the occasional flash of the old magic and given he's been the the League MVP 2 of the last 3 years, I think he's not falling off as quickly or as hard as you think. His roster was pretty excrement last year, and also he'd lost his favourite OC.
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 06:29:27 PM
I would. We're trying to win right now and he's our best chance to do that. He doesn't need to be at his peak, he just needs to be competent with the occasional flash of the old magic and given he's been the the League MVP 2 of the last 3 years, I think he's not falling off as quickly or as hard as you think. His roster was pretty excrement last year, and also he'd lost his favourite OC.Hes not our best chance.
Post by: Badger on January 26, 2023, 06:30:05 PM
Hes not our best chance.Jimmy G is.
Post by: MBGreen on January 26, 2023, 06:32:52 PM
Jimmy G is.James Gandolfini?
He ded.
Post by: Coach K on January 26, 2023, 06:42:59 PM
James Gandolfini?Rofl I exploded at this
He ded.
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2023, 10:48:26 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 26, 2023, 11:29:32 PM
Just to add a bit more to the "Rodgers is declining" argument: his terrible down season last year, his worst season ever would have had him ranked 5th all time most passing yards in a season for Jets QBs.Those are always the worst arguments for bringing in a quarterback.
The Jets have had some of the worst QB play in NFL history. Nobody has thrown for 10 touchdown passes in 3 straight seasons. Our most productive seasons are mostly by one-hit-wonders or played in the 1960's.
The bar shouldn't be him being better than Mark Sanchez and Richard Todd and Geno Smith.
Sorry, I just hate that argument.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 27, 2023, 12:09:14 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 27, 2023, 03:20:16 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 27, 2023, 05:32:39 AM
Garrett Wilson would be huge for Rodgers. Until Watson emerged late, his receivers were not good this year. Rodgers could make Wilson a superstar and Wilson would be a huge upgrade over what Rodgers had this year.
I feel like our current WR trio of Wilson, Moore and Davis would be one of Rodgers best WR units he ever had. I’d wager (without looking) top 5-6. Entice him with that and a TE trio of Conklin, Uzomah, and Ruckert and a backfield weapon like Hall. The OL will come. Duane Brown probably wants to come back, and true FAs will want to join us to protect Rodgers and go after a ring.
Rodgers has already said he’s open to renegotiating his contract to make it more feasible for him to return or get moved. Given Green Bay won’t want to move him until June 1 for cap purposes, I’d wager this is also really important for facilitating a move sooner rather than later. If Rodgers is the guy (and signs seem to suggest he is) we want it solidified early. If we want FAs to come here on team friendly deals intending to win, we need them to know we have Rodgers in the bag at the start of FA, and we can’t wait around until June 1 hoping GB agrees to a deal with us.
Just protect 13, and get it done (or at least public knowledge if not official) by FAs start.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 27, 2023, 06:58:54 AM
I feel like our current WR trio of Wilson, Moore and Davis would be one of Rodgers best WR units he ever had. I’d wager (without looking) top 5-6. Entice him with that and a TE trio of Conklin, Uzomah, and Ruckert and a backfield weapon like Hall. The OL will come. Duane Brown probably wants to come back, and true FAs will want to join us to protect Rodgers and go after a ring.13?
Rodgers has already said he’s open to renegotiating his contract to make it more feasible for him to return or get moved. Given Green Bay won’t want to move him until June 1 for cap purposes, I’d wager this is also really important for facilitating a move sooner rather than later. If Rodgers is the guy (and signs seem to suggest he is) we want it solidified early. If we want FAs to come here on team friendly deals intending to win, we need them to know we have Rodgers in the bag at the start of FA, and we can’t wait around until June 1 hoping GB agrees to a deal with us.
Just protect 13, and get it done (or at least public knowledge if not official) by FAs start.
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 07:00:42 AM
13?
We're signing Kurt Warner too
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 27, 2023, 07:15:34 AM
Congratulations to JE.for realizing our franchise QBs are terrible.
“Oh no muh first round picks! We won’t be able to draft the next Sam Darnold or Zach Wilson!”
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 27, 2023, 07:16:04 AM
We're signing Kurt Warner too
Halftime Adjustments Coordinator
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 07:17:38 AM
“Oh no muh first round picks! We won’t be able to draft the next Sam Darnold or Zach Wilson!”
I wouldn't mind using them to get a few more Vera-Tuckers....but datz me
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 27, 2023, 07:22:16 AM
I wouldn't mind using them to get a few more Vera-Tuckers....but datz me
A Gord Can Always Be Found In The Latter Rounds
-Book of Revelations, 14:6
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 07:22:51 AM
A Gord Can Always Be Found In The Latter Rounds
-Book of Revelations, 14:6
that prophecy has never come to pass
Post by: bojanglesman on January 27, 2023, 07:37:35 AM
that prophecy has never come to passOh we found gords, just not good ones.
Post by: Johnny English on January 27, 2023, 08:05:16 AM
Those are always the worst arguments for bringing in a quarterback.
The Jets have had some of the worst QB play in NFL history. Nobody has thrown for 10 touchdown passes in 3 straight seasons. Our most productive seasons are mostly by one-hit-wonders or played in the 1960's.
The bar shouldn't be him being better than Mark Sanchez and Richard Todd and Geno Smith.
Sorry, I just hate that argument.
Congratulations to JE.for realizing our franchise QBs are terrible.
Not my point. My point was that "Rodgers is in decline" is in context of the superlative performance you've come to expect from Aaron Rodgers, and that even if he is in decline (which I'm not ready to sign up to just yet) he's still one of the best QBs in the NFL. He was 11th in passing yards (6 yards short of Hurts, and better than Carr or Daniel Jones). Yes, some of his other stats were pretty middling, but he was injured and surrounded by dross.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 27, 2023, 08:10:53 AM
Quote
The key date is Feb. 15. That is the day Carr’s 2023 base salary of $32.9 million and $7.5 million of his 2024 base salary become guaranteed. Technically, the Raiders can’t trade Carr until the new league year in March, but they can agree to a trade with a team at any time. Several teams have worked out deals well in advance of the league year recently — like the Rams and Lions with the Matthew Stafford-Jared Goff deal, and the Chiefs and Washington with the Alex Smith trade.
The tricky thing with trading Carr is the money becoming guaranteed on Feb. 15. The Jets could agree to a trade for Carr this weekend then change their minds on March 1 if they think they can get Rodgers. The Raiders would then be stuck with Carr unless they can work out another deal.
Would be a hilarious poopchute move on the Jets part.
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 08:14:10 AM
Not my point. My point was that "Rodgers is in decline" is in context of the superlative performance you've come to expect from Aaron Rodgers, and that even if he is in decline (which I'm not ready to sign up to just yet) he's still one of the best QBs in the NFL. He was 11th in passing yards (6 yards short of Hurts, and better than Carr or Daniel Jones). Yes, some of his other stats were pretty middling, but he was injured and surrounded by dross.
I have to believe Joe Douglas is smart enough to not burn multiple 1st round picks on a 40 year old declining MVP. That would be poor asset mgmt, and he's not known for that. The only caveat to this is if my avatar sticks his nose in here.
If we can get Rodgers at a more reasonable price, i'm all in.
If we're planning on spending 1st round picks on a QB, it better be for Lamar Jackson.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 27, 2023, 08:16:17 AM
I have to believe Joe Douglas is smart enough to not burn multiple 1st round picks on a 40 year old declining MVP. That would be poor asset mgmt, and he's not known for that.
If we can get Rodgers at a more reasonable price, i'm all in.
If we're planning on spending 1st round picks on a QB, it better be for Lamar Jackson.
No one is giving multiple 1's for Rodgers. May not even be a first rounder at all if ultimately they want to move on or he is adamant about it. It really depends on how badly GB or Rodgers wants to move on. If they are truly on the fence about it, they could bid him up. If they know he isn't staying, it will require a dumb team to bid against themselves. Please don't be dumb Joe.
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 08:21:15 AM
No one is giving multiple 1's for Rodgers. May not even be a first rounder at all if ultimately they want to move on or he is adamant about it. It really depends on how badly GB or Rodgers wants to move on. If they are truly on the fence about it, they could bid him up. If they know he isn't staying, it will require a dumb team to bid against themselves. Please don't be dumb Joe.
I'm scared Woody is going to go in guns a blazin, and GuntKuntz ends up fleecing us.
On a side note, you should see some of the trade proposals being tweeted out from the GB fanbase...lmaooo. Multiple firsts plus Quinnen. The cheeseheads are dumber than us.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 27, 2023, 08:58:20 AM
I'd like to know who Saleh has in mind for that Senior Assistant role (Greg Knapp 2.0)...because it sounds like filling that role is still full steam ahead.
I'm interested to see which current offensive coaches Hackett keeps. Middleton is probably the only one worth keeping and he may not be safe either.
The senior assistant has to be a QB coach.
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 09:01:12 AM
I'm interested to see which current offensive coaches Hackett keeps. Middleton is probably the only one worth keeping and he may not be safe either.
The senior assistant has to be a QB coach.
If they keep Middleton, it'll be for a different role since Keith Carter is the new run game coordinator
Post by: Heismanberg on January 27, 2023, 09:01:44 AM
If they keep Middleton, it'll be for a different role since Keith Carter is the new run game coordinator
Middleton is just our tight ends coach.
Benton was the run game coordinator.
Post by: Johnny English on January 27, 2023, 09:07:22 AM
I'm interested to see which current offensive coaches Hackett keeps. Middleton is probably the only one worth keeping and he may not be safe either.
The senior assistant has to be a QB coach.
Hackett is a QB coach. He still might fire Calabrese but I think Saleh would have already done it when he fired Benton if he wanted Calabrese gone, and I don't see them adding a third coaching voice in the QB room. I think it's more likely the senior assistant fills the WRs spot, even if he knows QBs as well.
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 09:09:52 AM
Middleton is just our tight ends coach.
Benton was the run game coordinator.
oh excrement you're right...my bad
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 09:10:22 AM
Hackett is a QB coach. He still might fire Calabrese but I think Saleh would have already done it when he fired Benton if he wanted Calabrese gone, and I don't see them adding a third coaching voice in the QB room. I think it's more likely the senior assistant fills the WRs spot, even if he knows QBs as well.
I hope Calabrese gets canned.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 27, 2023, 09:14:45 AM
Hackett is a QB coach. He still might fire Calabrese but I think Saleh would have already done it when he fired Benton if he wanted Calabrese gone, and I don't see them adding a third coaching voice in the QB room. I think it's more likely the senior assistant fills the WRs spot, even if he knows QBs as well.
Hackett needs to have someone on his staff dedicated to the quarterbacks. It can't be him. He has to fix everything and he should be involved everywhere.
Calabrese should be gone soon.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 27, 2023, 09:15:09 AM
I'm scared Woody is going to go in guns a blazin, and GuntKuntz ends up fleecing us.Our fanbase is just as stupid. All fanbases have smoothbrains. Come to think of it, most of us in general are kinda dumb.
On a side note, you should see some of the trade proposals being tweeted out from the GB fanbase...lmaooo. Multiple firsts plus Quinnen. The cheeseheads are dumber than us.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 27, 2023, 09:17:28 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 27, 2023, 09:29:48 AM
Hackett needs to have someone on his staff dedicated to the quarterbacks. It can't be him. He has to fix everything and he should be involved everywhere.
Calabrese should be gone soon.
I understand, I just think that Saleh likes him enough to have kept him around for the new OC to make the decision on - it might well be that they think he's got something to offer, and isn't senior enough to carry the bag for the mess that is Zach Wilson. (Although that would rather beg the question as to why he has the title of QB coach, but still.)
You can't blame Lafleur for failing to develop Zach's career, and then say that the new OC won't have time to be developing Zach's career.
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 09:38:09 AM
I understand, I just think that Saleh likes him enough to have kept him around for the new OC to make the decision on - it might well be that they think he's got something to offer, and isn't senior enough to carry the bag for the mess that is Zach Wilson. (Although that would rather beg the question as to why he has the title of QB coach, but still.)
You can't blame Lafleur for failing to develop Zach's career, and then say that the new OC won't have time to be developing Zach's career.
Making a good cup of coffee isn't a good reason.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 27, 2023, 09:55:16 AM
Oh we found gords, just not good ones.
Yeah, this was the prophecy
Post by: Heismanberg on January 27, 2023, 10:10:31 AM
You can't blame Lafleur for failing to develop Zach's career, and then say that the new OC won't have time to be developing Zach's career.
I most certainly can.
Mike LaFleur failed our entire offense, not just the quarterback.
Post by: Badger on January 27, 2023, 10:47:34 AM
Those are always the worst arguments for bringing in a quarterback.I will never stop using that argument. Because it always tickles me to say that [random mediocre QB] would be one of the best Jets QBs of all time.
The Jets have had some of the worst QB play in NFL history. Nobody has thrown for 10 touchdown passes in 3 straight seasons. Our most productive seasons are mostly by one-hit-wonders or played in the 1960's.
The bar shouldn't be him being better than Mark Sanchez and Richard Todd and Geno Smith.
Sorry, I just hate that argument.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 27, 2023, 12:10:57 PM
I will never stop using that argument. Because it always tickles me to say that [random mediocre QB] would be one of the best Jets QBs of all time.
Geno Smith
Post by: Johnny English on January 27, 2023, 12:15:01 PM
Geno Smith
His 2022 season would be the single best in Jets history in passing yards, and by a distance.
Sign this beast.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 27, 2023, 03:41:15 PM
I just worry JD has no leverage because of Woody
Post by: Badger on January 27, 2023, 03:53:38 PM
It is very difficult to put a good price on a Rodgers trade. Leverage is very weird here. If you tell me it is two firsts, that wouldn't shock me anymore. If it's a 3rd this year and a conditional 3rd next year that can go to a 1st or 2nd, that makes sense too.I'm just wondering which teams would actually be willing to pay two firsts.
I just worry JD has no leverage because of Woody
Post by: Libero_2 on January 27, 2023, 04:09:01 PM
13?
Our first round draft pick…?
If we can get Rodgers and keep 13, we have the chance to add either one more blue chip talent to the roster or trade that pick for multiple picks to fill out the roster in other ways.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 27, 2023, 04:32:20 PM
After reading these comments I googled realistic trade value for Aaron Rodgers
One of the first articles to come up was this PFF article written a month ago literally called realistic trade value for top QBs.
How the freak is this excrement humanly possible to be realistic
Quote
Terms: Jets send 2023 1st, 2024 1st, 2023 2nd, 2024 2nd
Packers dead cap: $40.3 million
Contract acquired: Four years*, $144.7 million, $108.8 million guaranteed
*An acquiring team would truly be inheriting a two-year, $108.8 million deal with control for two more years if Rodgers elects to continue playing, presumably on a reworked contract.
Rodgers has a $58.3 million fully guaranteed option bonus due this offseason, but the exercise window is open until just before the 2023 regular season kicks off, which is, in theory, conducive to a trade. Moving on from Rodgers via trade this offseason is the only real way Green Bay can get out of this deal without too much damage — around $40 million in total dead cap — though dead cap is less of a consideration with a back-to-back MVP quarterback in his final years.
Even with Rodgers turning 39 earlier in December and playing on the richest contract in the NFL, he’s still potentially worth a trade package roughly in line with Russell Wilson’s — though perhaps Wilson’s performance scares some teams from pulling the trigger. Rodgers has shown recently he can adapt to new systems and isn’t at risk of regressing to the same magnitude. There are no real concerns from a play standpoint, but he may not offer a large enough playing window to command a return of this degree.
Over the past three seasons, Rodgers’ 92.5 passing grade leads the NFL, with Tom Brady’s 92.1 mark — in seasons all played well over 40 years old — right behind. Rodgers’ 97.2 mark on throws 20-plus yards downfield since 2020 ranks fourth, and his 6.8% big-time throw rate leads the league over the span. A healthy Rodgers has shown no signs of slowing down and could make the Jets an immediate contender.
The Jets have a very good roster at almost every position besides quarterback, as they’ve utilized extra draft capital over the past two years to the tune of seven top-50 draft picks. First-round guard Alijah Vera-Tucker and first-round tackle Mekhi Becton will return in 2023, and Rodgers would have Garrett Wilson, Elijah Moore and Corey Davis to throw to at wide receiver. Jets offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur is Packers head coach Matt LaFleur’s brother and could provide some familiarity with offensive verbiage
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-realistic-trade-value-landing-spots-quarterbacks-lamar-jackson-aaron-rodgers-derek-carr
Like this is an actual nfl writer paid to write this excrement. And not some like steiny style blogger, but an actual professional who is paid and appears on nfl network ESPN etc etc
Predicting we give up 2 1st and 2 2nd
I would want Joe Douglas fired before the season even starts if we made this trade. I would even consider him a worse GM than Idzik immediately and forever, barring a SB victory
Post by: MBGreen on January 27, 2023, 04:52:43 PM
The fact that people see this as realistic or fair terrifies the excrement out of meIf that were the offer, it would be coming from Woody not Douglas.
After reading these comments I googled realistic trade value for Aaron Rodgers
One of the first articles to come up was this PFF article written a month ago literally called realistic trade value for top QBs.
How the freak is this excrement humanly possible to be realistic
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-realistic-trade-value-landing-spots-quarterbacks-lamar-jackson-aaron-rodgers-derek-carr
Like this is an actual nfl writer paid to write this excrement. And not some like steiny style blogger, but an actual professional who is paid and appears on nfl network ESPN etc etc
Predicting we give up 2 1st and 2 2nd
I would want Joe Douglas fired before the season even starts if we made this trade. I would even consider him a worse GM than Idzik immediately and forever, barring a SB victory
Post by: Libero_2 on January 27, 2023, 06:29:07 PM
If that were the offer, it would be coming from Woody not Douglas.
2 firsts alone would be coming from Woody.
For an offer for any player to reach that level described in the article he posted multiple of the following needs to be true
1. Player is currently a HOF level talent, and expected to perform as such for the foreseeable future.
2. Player has a heavy bidding war from multiple teams the current team wants to deal him to
3. New player is open to playing in multiple spots, thus making #2 even more possible
4. The owner has to be fully on board, and likely desperate as hell to get his hands on said player.
5. Acquiring team has no discernible alternative and has “no choice” but to pay this price to acquire the player at this cost.
If we examine these points as it pertains to Rodgers and the Jets…
1. Clearly a HOF player. Highly debatable we can get continued HOF play from Rodgers for a year, let alone multiple. In my eyes it’s even questionable he is competing in 2024 and certainly a serious question mark about playing 2025, let alone discussing HOF level performance at that time. Best case scenario we receive Brady’s tenure with the Bucs, 3 seasons: one elite season, one very solid season you could win it all if everything clicks, and one washed year as it all crumbles around us.
2. How many teams would seriously want to acquire Rodgers? This teams needs to be ready to win now, and believe they are a QB away from getting it done. From my best guess…
AFCE - Dolphins, Jets
AFCN - none, Steelers ravens browns and bengals have their guys
AFCS - Titans… maybe? Colts will go young guy, Jags have Lawrence, Texans are picking one at 2.
AFCW - none, broncos and Raiders are in rebuild mode, Mahomes and Herbert are the other 2 QBs
NFC - Packers would highly prefer to keep him out of conference.
NFCE - Commanders. Eagles, giants and Cowboys have their guy, not that Rodgers wouldn’t be an upgrade over Dak and Jones, but they wouldn’t “pay the price” to upgrade to a Rodgers
NFCN - none, Packers wouldn’t trade in the division
NFCS - all teams want a QB. Saints have no money and limited assets. Bucs are aging, falcons aren’t ready to go all in, Panthers are young and Tepper wants a QB badly. Of the 4 I’d wager Bucs are most likely, Saints would be most ready to push the chips in, but can’t swing a deal and Panthers are to far away to jump all in with a new regime.
NFCW - None, rebuilds coming in LA and AZ, 49ers already have 3 QBs and Seattle will just bring back Geno.
The contenders:
AFC - Jets, Dolphins, Titans
NFC - Commanders, Saints, Buccaneers, Panthers
You’d assume Packers want him in the AFC. If Tua is healthy and playing, as reports suggest, Dolphins are out. Which means their top choices for trade partners are Jets and Titans. Is that enough to get a bidding war truly started? I’d wager not.
3. If we assume AFC is the Packers choice, and Rodgers can choose between Jets or Titans would he want to be in both spots? Division wise, AFCS seems to be easier to win, and they have Derrick Henry. We have a bunch of young offensive guys and a questionable OL. We have the legacy factor, if you win in NY (where Favre couldn’t…) his legacy will just be remembered differently. That said I’d imagine him being open to the Titans as well
4. I’d say evidence suggests that yes, Woody is desperate enough to just say freak it and pay a high price for Rodgers
5. As of right now, we do have alternative options in Carr, Jimmy G, potentially Lamar. But in 3 weeks Carr could be elsewhere, Lamar going no where, and Jimmy G isn’t a guy we really want.
Add this all up, and I’d wager the Packers won’t have enough teams desperate to acquire Rodgers that they are willing to trade him to, to create a bidding war that results in a price like that. I still think a 2nd or 3rd this year with escalating conditions on a 2024 pick to be a 1 is the best scenario for GB. If we give a 2 this year, it’s a lot harder to get a 1 next year (win the super bowl and he returns for 2024) a 3 this year and becoming a 1 next year is “easier” (make a super bowl, 2024 not contingent).
Jesus I think I am actually talking myself into Rodgers
Post by: dcm1602 on January 27, 2023, 06:32:12 PM
And the Dolphins have a guy they like on a rookie contract, who they intend on bringing back.
So uhh Titans?
Post by: Libero_2 on January 27, 2023, 06:36:19 PM
Packers have already said they wouldn't trade him to an NFC team
And the Dolphins have a guy they like on a rookie contract, who they intend on bringing back.
So uhh Titans?
Like I said above, the Titans and Jets seem the only viable AFC teams that make sense for a trade. I’d say it’s questionable that the Titans are even in the spot to want to make that move. With Tannehill still on the books for big money, are they really just a QB away? Certainly Rodgers gives them a shot unlike other guys do this year, but would they even be willing to go 2 premium picks like I mentioned above, a 3 this year and a conditional 2024 pick? I’m not sure Vrabel would do that.
I legitimately could see us in a bidding against ourself war with Green Bay for Rodgers,
Post by: bojanglesman on January 27, 2023, 06:41:53 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 27, 2023, 06:43:22 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 27, 2023, 06:57:07 PM
The Packers also have leverage that they could just not trade him and run it back with Aaron Rodgers. That may or may not be a bluff if we get to that point.
Do they really have that leverage though?
Then they're essentially paying him a billion dollars , in cap hell, and have no choice but to give up on Jordan Love.
If i was a Packers fan I'd certainly want to ship off Rodgers for anything I could get, and hope for the best with Love
If you ask me the Packers either need to trade Rodgers or force him to retire. I don't think they have any leverage. Now as to what his value is I have no freaking idea. 2 months ago I would've sworn it was a 3rd or even just a pure cap dump. Now there's these insane freaking scenarios floating out there
Unless the Packers think they are a legitimate SB contender this and next year, keeping Rodgers is the worst thing that franchise can do
Post by: Coach K on January 27, 2023, 07:09:48 PM
Since 1970 Zach Wilson’s paltry 8 wins is 14th most in team history.
-The last time a Jets quarterback threw for 4,000 yards was back in 1967 by Joe Namath.
-It’s been 3 straight years where a Jets quarterback has failed to throw for at least 10 touchdowns.
-Since Mark Sanchez the Jets have started: Greg McElroy, Geno Smith, Michael Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Josh McCown, Sam Darnold, Siemian, Luke Falk, Joe Flacco, Josh Johnson, Mike White, and Zach Wilson.
-Ryan Fitzpatrick is the only quarterback in franchise history to have 30+ passing touchdowns in one season.
-From 2009 to 2022, (Sanchez to Wilson), the Jets are last in the NFL in Total QBR (41.5), touchdown passes (257), and completion passes (57.7).
During 2009 to 2022, they are also tied for the most interceptions (245).
But yes we are worried about Carr or Rodgers for whatever reason I'm only against Jimmy G for durability lol if he could stay healthy I'd rally for him lol .
For the record someone else compiled this sad assembly of facts.
I knew it was awful I've even said people have no idea what bad QB play looks like unless they're a Jets or Browns fan
And I was still shocked to see this lol
Post by: Libero_2 on January 27, 2023, 07:21:57 PM
Let's let this into perspective .
Since 1970 Zach Wilson’s paltry 8 wins is 14th most in team history.
-The last time a Jets quarterback threw for 4,000 yards was back in 1967 by Joe Namath.
-It’s been 3 straight years where a Jets quarterback has failed to throw for at least 10 touchdowns.
-Since Mark Sanchez the Jets have started: Greg McElroy, Geno Smith, Michael Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Josh McCown, Sam Darnold, Siemian, Luke Falk, Joe Flacco, Josh Johnson, Mike White, and Zach Wilson.
-Ryan Fitzpatrick is the only quarterback in franchise history to have 30+ passing touchdowns in one season.
-From 2009 to 2022, (Sanchez to Wilson), the Jets are last in the NFL in Total QBR (41.5), touchdown passes (257), and completion passes (57.7).
During 2009 to 2022, they are also tied for the most interceptions (245).
But yes we are worried about Carr or Rodgers for whatever reason I'm only against Jimmy G for durability lol if he could stay healthy I'd rally for him lol .
For the record someone else compiled this sad assembly of facts.
I knew it was awful I've even said people have no idea what bad QB play looks like unless they're a Jets or Browns fan
And I was still shocked to see this lol
The only part of this that shocked me is that we had more TD passes than INTs from 2009-2022.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 27, 2023, 08:34:37 PM
Do they really have that leverage though?It is a game of chicken. But a lot of it depends on how they feel about Jordan Love.
Then they're essentially paying him a billion dollars , in cap hell, and have no choice but to give up on Jordan Love.
If i was a Packers fan I'd certainly want to ship off Rodgers for anything I could get, and hope for the best with Love
If you ask me the Packers either need to trade Rodgers or force him to retire. I don't think they have any leverage. Now as to what his value is I have no freaking idea. 2 months ago I would've sworn it was a 3rd or even just a pure cap dump. Now there's these insane freaking scenarios floating out there
Unless the Packers think they are a legitimate SB contender this and next year, keeping Rodgers is the worst thing that franchise can do
Post by: Libero_2 on January 27, 2023, 09:08:44 PM
It is a game of chicken. But a lot of it depends on how they feel about Jordan Love.
I think they are nuts, because I haven’t seen anything from Love in his limited play. But the only reason trading Rodgers is even an option is either the team needs to go full rebuild and it doesn’t matter what you have in love OR you think Love is a good starter right now.
I don’t think either is true
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 02:40:45 AM
I think they are nuts, because I haven’t seen anything from Love in his limited play. But the only reason trading Rodgers is even an option is either the team needs to go full rebuild and it doesn’t matter what you have in love OR you think Love is a good starter right now.
I don’t think either is true
Rodgers will be 40 next season. Unless you think he's going to play at a high level for another 5 + years I don't know what keeping him around does, especially with his franchise crippling cap hit. So regardless of whether you keep him or not, I think there's going to be a notable rebuild. Plus after the Adams trade, you're in a solid spot to do some rebuilding regardless.
I don't know if it'd been discussed, but is the Raiders a realistic trade destination for Rodgers?
You NEED a QB of the future. Love might not be it, but you drafted him in the 1st and never really played him.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 02:53:10 AM
Cimini pointed out this was just cap voodoo and any team to acquire him would be on a hook for approximately 109 million for 2 years
Just the cap hit would be punted down the road a little
Quote
Any team that trades for him would be responsible for $59.5 million in 2023 salary (fully guaranteed), which includes a $58.3 million bonus payable from March 17 to the start of the regular season. There's also a $49.3 million salary in 2024 that becomes fully guaranteed if he's on the roster after the fifth day of the 2024 waiver period (mid-February).
The good news is that the cap hits for the new team would be palatable -- $15.8 million and $32.5 million in 2023 and 2024, respectively, according to overthecap.com. (The 2023 cap charge is so low because the bonus is prorated over four years.) On Tuesday, Rodgers said he's open to reworking his deal, but that wouldn't change the fact that he's owed nearly $109 million in guarantees if he plays the two years.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 28, 2023, 03:30:06 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 03:54:54 AM
As usual, Cimini being lazy and a dick. Everybody knows this. There's a shitload of exits after 2023, either you rework, or you cut him straight. There's nothing new there other than him reporting something that was reported a week ago.
But in that case you're talking about trading noticeable draft cap for a 1 year rental that will ultimately cost you almost 60 million for one year of play?
Unless Green Bay ridiculously lowers their demands and Rodgers reworks his contract in advance, I don't think the scenario you mention is viable at all
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 04:00:13 AM
But in that case you're talking about trading noticeable draft cap for a 1 year rental that will ultimately cost you almost 60 million for one year of play?Most of it can be spread our and paid as bonuses. There's all sorts of ways to manipulate that
Unless Green Bay ridiculously lowers their demands and Rodgers reworks his contract in advance, I don't think the scenario you mention is viable at all
Especially when Rodgers openly said he imagines a renegotiation would be involved if he's moved
The cap is a freaking joke unless you guarantee 4 or more huge guaranteed deals . We only have Q to pay soon . By tbe time Sauce and the others are ready whatever we've done to mitigate the cap hit was either absorbed on a thin roster in 24 or 25 or would be spread out in decent chunks as bulk of thst remaining falls off the non guaranteed portions when he's off the roster
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 04:02:53 AM
Theyre all going to be so good theyll.be worth top dollar when the rookie deal is up
People worried about the next 2 ti 3 yrs of cap are worried about the wrong thing
You either think Rodgers or x y z qb can get us to the SB or you don't
The hot seat makes long term draft capital less important to JD with his job on tbe line regardless which QB they target
Pick 1 or 2 qbs and a worst case scenario
Mine is Carr and Rodgers and worst case you sign both minshew and brisset or one of the two and draft a mid rd prospect
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 04:36:29 AM
Most of it can be spread our and paid as bonuses. There's all sorts of ways to manipulate that
Especially when Rodgers openly said he imagines a renegotiation would be involved if he's moved
The cap is a freaking joke unless you guarantee 4 or more huge guaranteed deals . We only have Q to pay soon . By tbe time Sauce and the others are ready whatever we've done to mitigate the cap hit was either absorbed on a thin roster in 24 or 25 or would be spread out in decent chunks as bulk of thst remaining falls off the non guaranteed portions when he's off the roster
Yes I'm not talking about cap hit this year
The Jets aren't an aging veteran team that has to win this year. We're really young with almost all of our best players being on rookie contracts.
So would taking a 59.5 million dollar cap hit for one single year of play be a good deal because it's spread out over 4 years?
Absolutely freaking not
And I'm not saying don't yet Rodgers or getting Rodgers is a bad move
I'm saying getting Rodgers and cutting him after one year is a horrible idea under current terms, which it is
Yes renegotiating his contract is a possibility, but considering the amount of guaranteed money Rodgers has, he doesn't have a ton of incentive to do so, aka he has a fair bit of leverage. I assume the closest thing to a win win would be lowering Rodgers APY but somehow guaranteeing more money over 4 years, essentially commiting to Rodgers long term.
And that's not without risk, especially if his play this recent year was dropoff and not an anamoly
Post by: Libero_2 on January 28, 2023, 05:43:43 AM
Yes I'm not talking about cap hit this year
The Jets aren't an aging veteran team that has to win this year. We're really young with almost all of our best players being on rookie contracts.
So would taking a 59.5 million dollar cap hit for one single year of play be a good deal because it's spread out over 4 years?
Absolutely freaking not
And I'm not saying don't yet Rodgers or getting Rodgers is a bad move
I'm saying getting Rodgers and cutting him after one year is a horrible idea under current terms, which it is
Yes renegotiating his contract is a possibility, but considering the amount of guaranteed money Rodgers has, he doesn't have a ton of incentive to do so, aka he has a fair bit of leverage. I assume the closest thing to a win win would be lowering Rodgers APY but somehow guaranteeing more money over 4 years, essentially commiting to Rodgers long term.
And that's not without risk, especially if his play this recent year was dropoff and not an anamoly
Rodgers gets $60 million of Woodys money, but the cap hit is largely mitigated for the acquiring team, and Packers are on the hook for a good chunk of that.
Largely speaking, Rodgers will restructure in order to facilitate a trade. Which means the majority of your concerns about his current contract are pointless as it means it will be different.
Post by: insanity on January 28, 2023, 07:57:40 AM
We need to view sauce garrett and Hall as our cheap qb dealsThis makes me think of something else... I'm getting ahead of myself as it's been knly 1 season, but we aren't going to be able to resign all of these guys. With that in mind I wonder if JD is actually more open to giving up his first round picks today for veteran contracts the next few seasons.
Alot needs to happen, but if we resign 3 of the following (Avt, sauce, wilson, hall, Jermaine johnson) it doesn't leave much room to resign this year's 1st rounder the following year
Post by: bojanglesman on January 28, 2023, 08:52:16 AM
Rodgers gets $60 million of Woodys money, but the cap hit is largely mitigated for the acquiring team, and Packers are on the hook for a good chunk of that.You still have to think about possibly carrying $20-30 million of cap space in future years for a guy that is doing shrooms in retirement somewhere. If you restructure and end up getting his cap number to $15 million for 2023, that doesn't mean you pay that and walk away. I don't mind paying a few million in dead cap for a shot at it all, but I don't like the idea of having $20 million in cap space for a guy that isn't here after we move on.
Largely speaking, Rodgers will restructure in order to facilitate a trade. Which means the majority of your concerns about his current contract are pointless as it means it will be different.
Obviously none of us know whether he will come here at all or whether he'd flame out in a year or stick around for 4 years. But you can't just ignore massive dead cap money and you could have that with Rodgers.
I'm not even saying it's wrong to do it, but you can't make it disappear if it blows up in your face. You might not be able to re-sign a really good young player down the road because of it. Imagine if we knew we couldn't extend Q because we didn't have any cap space to do it. As of now, it would be by choice not to do it.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 28, 2023, 09:12:37 AM
You still have to think about possibly carrying $20-30 million of cap space in future years for a guy that is doing shrooms in retirement somewhere. If you restructure and end up getting his cap number to $15 million for 2023, that doesn't mean you pay that and walk away. I don't mind paying a few million in dead cap for a shot at it all, but I don't like the idea of having $20 million in cap space for a guy that isn't here after we move on.
Obviously none of us know whether he will come here at all or whether he'd flame out in a year or stick around for 4 years. But you can't just ignore massive dead cap money and you could have that with Rodgers.
I'm not even saying it's wrong to do it, but you can't make it disappear if it blows up in your face. You might not be able to re-sign a really good young player down the road because of it. Imagine if we knew we couldn't extend Q because we didn't have any cap space to do it. As of now, it would be by choice not to do it.
I'm sure that's in Joe Douglas' mind. They will find a way to restructure, not to cripple the team after Rodgers is gone.
Post by: Johnny English on January 28, 2023, 09:33:58 AM
You still have to think about possibly carrying $20-30 million of cap space in future years for a guy that is doing shrooms in retirement somewhere. If you restructure and end up getting his cap number to $15 million for 2023, that doesn't mean you pay that and walk away. I don't mind paying a few million in dead cap for a shot at it all, but I don't like the idea of having $20 million in cap space for a guy that isn't here after we move on.
Obviously none of us know whether he will come here at all or whether he'd flame out in a year or stick around for 4 years. But you can't just ignore massive dead cap money and you could have that with Rodgers.
I'm not even saying it's wrong to do it, but you can't make it disappear if it blows up in your face. You might not be able to re-sign a really good young player down the road because of it. Imagine if we knew we couldn't extend Q because we didn't have any cap space to do it. As of now, it would be by choice not to do it.
If we trade for Rodgers it's because we - and he - believe that we have a legitimate shot to win a Super Bowl in the next two years. You don't give up a legitimate shot to win a Super Bowl because it might be a bit hard to sign everyone you want in three years' time.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 28, 2023, 11:34:57 AM
I'm sure that's in Joe Douglas' mind. They will find a way to restructure, not to cripple the team after Rodgers is gone.If we restructure his deal it will be to ensure we are less at risk finacially going forwards, and that’s a good thing for us. If we restructure it won’t be to make Rodgers even more highly paid, but to make it easier on us to get him in here, with the lowest numbers we can absorb to ensure that we can bring in other guys to try and win right freaking now.
If we trade for Rodgers it's because we - and he - believe that we have a legitimate shot to win a Super Bowl in the next two years. You don't give up a legitimate shot to win a Super Bowl because it might be a bit hard to sign everyone you want in three years' time.
this is super important. Especially with the escalating cap over time, if we manage the rest of the roster well and aren’t also having to accrue other contracts with significant dead money, then 20 million in dead money is actually below average on teams accounts in a year. Sure it all goes to one guy, but at the end of the day it’s all about the total.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/9/1/23330322/nfl-teams-spending-more-than-1-billion-players-who-wont-suit-up-week-1
Article from September suggests that the NFL average is over $26 million in dead money. Given the rising cap, that average will only go up as the average player gets more money but the average # of players getting cut will remain the same.
Given we had nearly zero dead money this year, If Douglas continues to manage the cap well and most signings work out we should have an average to above average amount of dead money when Rodgers retires, on his current deal. Should we restructure and make that better for us, then all the better.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 12:49:31 PM
If we trade for Rodgers it's because we - and he - believe that we have a legitimate shot to win a Super Bowl in the next two years. You don't give up a legitimate shot to win a Super Bowl because it might be a bit hard to sign everyone you want in three years' time.
But does Rodgers uniquely make us more likely to win a SB?
Obviously every big ticket move puts a team closer to a SB and gives you a legitimate shot. Unless you think Rodgers dramatically boost those odds way more than Carr and Jimmy G, you have to factor in cost/benefit.
The benefit of Rodgers is unquestionable. But is he worth putting your team in a situation like the Saints where they're simply in oblivion for an extended period?
Paying Rodgers is fine. Trading for Rodgers is fine. But I'm very very uneasy with dedicating a tremendous amount of resources for both to him.
And FWIW I don't think the Jets are like the Rams (when they were crazy) where they're one piece away. So to go all in on maybe a two year window, when I'm not sure you're even going to end up a top 5 team (barring Rodgers playing at MVP candidate level) just seems risky.
TLDR at the end of the day you only go for Rodgers if it's a reasonable price, and not doing the Ditka
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 28, 2023, 02:59:30 PM
But does Rodgers uniquely make us more likely to win a SB?Absolutely. I share a lot of your concerns buy if we yet MVP-level Rodgers, we absolutely are a SB contender. Our supporting cast is better than what Green Bay had recently. You can argue we are a lot like Tampa before the Brady move.
I dont like giving up a ton of picks but the team was built for a 2023-24 window and hopefully beyond. Unfortunately we whiffed on QB so we need a Plan B.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 03:32:42 PM
Absolutely. I share a lot of your concerns buy if we yet MVP-level Rodgers, we absolutely are a SB contender. Our supporting cast is better than what Green Bay had recently. You can argue we are a lot like Tampa before the Brady move.
I dont like giving up a ton of picks but the team was built for a 2023-24 window and hopefully beyond. Unfortunately we whiffed on QB so we need a Plan B.
With Tannenhill or any of the other mediocre fallback options were still a contender.
But unless we're getting MVP candidate Rodgers. We're still not a top 5 team
My point is Rodgers gets us a serious 2 year window followed by several years of cleaning up the mess (depending on terms/contract) But unless he's literally the best player in the league i still don't see us as the clear better team than the Bengals Bills Cheifs Eagles 49ers, and potentially Cowboys. And is it worth selling the farm the be the 6th or 7th best team in the league? When essentially Carr Jimmy G Tannenhill Brady and whoever some of the other fallback options also have us a legitimate top 10 team
Post by: Johnny English on January 28, 2023, 03:41:40 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 28, 2023, 03:49:18 PM
With Tannenhill or any of the other mediocre fallback options were still a contender.I think we are right in the conversation with those teams immediately. It has a lot of blowup potential, but our defense is just as good if not better than any of the AFC teams, and if we go from bottom 5 QB play to even top 8 QB play, we are a legit SB contender.
But unless we're getting MVP candidate Rodgers. We're still not a top 5 team
My point is Rodgers gets us a serious 2 year window followed by several years of cleaning up the mess (depending on terms/contract) But unless he's literally the best player in the league i still don't see us as the clear better team than the Bengals Bills Cheifs Eagles 49ers, and potentially Cowboys.
Of course, Denver tried basically the same thing last year and it blew up. But that's because Wilson was terrible. If Rodgers is good, it could have a different ending.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 04:16:36 PM
You seem to be assuming that that team's approach would be to sign Rodgers, pat themselves on the back, and then sit back and wait for the Super Bowl. One of the points of signing him with a $15M hit in '23 is that you can afford to make other significant strengthening moves, and that having him under center will attract the kind of FAs you need.
The Jets have almost negative 3 million dollars in cap space next year. And this is without addressing Q. Yes we can cut Lawson brown and Davis, but then those are all expensive holes that'll have to be filled anyway so I don't think you'll be seeing outrageous cap savings in the grand scheme of things
I mean we are more than capable of punting all cap hits down the road, (which Rodgers already does) but that just adds on to us having an extremely narrow window.
You also have to wonder how difficult it'll be to resign last year's rookie class if we're punting massive amounts of cap 3 or 4 years down the road. Especially if JJ ends up being very good.
Post by: Johnny English on January 28, 2023, 04:32:02 PM
The cap is irrelevant when it comes to making a run. As has been proven multiple times, it's possible to kick the cans down the road for a few years in order to win now; ask the Saints or the Rams if they regret it. We aren't going to not sign the Sauces and the Garretts and the Tuckers as a result of it, we're either going to lose everything around them or we're going to trade one or two of them to get us the draft picks for a rebuild. But as long as we have that Super Bowl victory then who cares? Literally every price is worth paying for that.
Post by: MBGreen on January 28, 2023, 04:36:28 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 28, 2023, 04:46:19 PM
The Jets have almost negative 3 million dollars in cap space next year. And this is without addressing Q. Yes we can cut Lawson brown and Davis, but then those are all expensive holes that'll have to be filled anyway so I don't think you'll be seeing outrageous cap savings in the grand scheme of things
I mean we are more than capable of punting all cap hits down the road, (which Rodgers already does) but that just adds on to us having an extremely narrow window.
You also have to wonder how difficult it'll be to resign last year's rookie class if we're punting massive amounts of cap 3 or 4 years down the road. Especially if JJ ends up being very good.
A few questions for you
1. Which is more advantageous for the jets over the next five years?
Derek Carr on an average salary cap cost of $35 million dollars, or Aaron Rodgers on an average salary cap cost of $35 million dollars? Because this is essentially what you are arguing with yourself about.
2. Our cap situation is nowhere near as bad as the Saints cap situation was 4 years ago, and they have been able to retain their players, and somehow still have an out this year to keep everyone aside from 1-2 guys and improve in other areas. Now granted they can’t take on a $40 million QB deal, but they can add pieces too. Given this truth, why can’t the Jets do the exact same thing?
3. Are you opposed to adding any other talent this offseason aside from Rodgers and whatever draft picks remain? Because despite your concern about where we are cap wise, we do have the ability to create a large sum of cap space this year, and we could structure a lot of deals to be “expensive” (relatively speaking) in year two when we currently have like $100 million in free cap space.
4. If not now, when we have 3-4 years before we have to find the money to pay superstars we drafted (AVT, Sauce, Wilson, Hall etc), then when do we go all in? Do we waste 2023 like MB Green has advocated (if we can’t land Carr) and then restart the regime and draft another QB high when Wilson, Sauce and Johnson are in starting year 3?
5. How many times in the past have we been worried about needing to pay our own guys, only to watch them not develop to the point they were worth paying anyways? Yes we need to save some money for the long term, but the cap is going up, up and up.
6. It is unquestionably a risk to pay up for Rodgers. But I outline last night why I think it’s basically a 2 team race, maybe 3 if you argue the Raiders should be in on the trade as well. It’s not going to be a bidding war that’s out of control, and it won’t cost 2 firsts. I don’t believe anyone would pay that. But the reality is every option is really risky, and we’ve discussed all of them and nauseum. Jimmy G is injury prone, Carr is potentially declining and was never elite to begin with, Rodgers is expensive and the window narrow, Lamar is an injury risk highly expensive financially and draft capital wise, everybody else expected to be a potential option is hot trash bordering on pure dumpster fire.
You have to risk it with somebody. Carr is the “least scary” because he’s the best combo of decent play without major cap and draft risk. But the real question of can you win with him long term lingers. Can he go toe to toe with a Burrow and Mahomes in the playoffs and win a game? Maybe if everything else is perfect, but maybe not.
It’s all a risk. Which one gives you the best chance to win when it matters most?
Post by: Johnny English on January 28, 2023, 04:50:20 PM
I want to bring Rodgers here, but not for multiple 1st round picks.
Don't care about draft capital either. Win now.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 28, 2023, 04:52:27 PM
Don't care about draft capital either. Win now.
At least high draft capital is giving us the option to add elite talent to the roster to do that with a top QB
Post by: bojanglesman on January 28, 2023, 05:04:35 PM
At least high draft capital is giving us the option to add elite talent to the roster to do that with a top QBI agree, I'd rather keep the draft picks than the cap space. The only way to stay good is to keep an inflow of cheaper talent. That's either drafting well or signing cheap free agents that turn out to be outperformers.
Post by: MBGreen on January 28, 2023, 05:08:54 PM
Don't care about draft capital either. Win now.You can't ignore the rest of the roster for a 40 year old declining QB.
Post by: Johnny English on January 28, 2023, 05:15:35 PM
You can't ignore the rest of the roster for a 40 year old declining QB.
No we can't. But nor can we turn down the opportunity to trade for an elite QB who could make us a legit contender because it will cost us the chance to draft someone who almost certainly won't.
Post by: MBGreen on January 28, 2023, 05:17:01 PM
No we can't. But nor can we turn down the opportunity to trade for an elite QB who could make us a legit contender because it will cost us the chance to draft someone who almost certainly won't.Lamar Jackson is your guy here...I got you.
Post by: Johnny English on January 28, 2023, 05:18:44 PM
Lamar Jackson is your guy here...I got you.
I prefer my quarterbacks to not be the product of fetal alcohol syndrome.
Post by: delavan on January 28, 2023, 07:09:20 PM
Lamar Jackson is your guy here...I got you.makes no sense....confirmed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWAY9VMOe0I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Richardson_(American_football)
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 07:48:59 PM
This makes me think of something else... I'm getting ahead of myself as it's been knly 1 season, but we aren't going to be able to resign all of these guys. With that in mind I wonder if JD is actually more open to giving up his first round picks today for veteran contracts the next few seasons.Exactly what I'm alluding to. Plus the value of the 1st plummets when you're future playoff team
Alot needs to happen, but if we resign 3 of the following (Avt, sauce, wilson, hall, Jermaine johnson) it doesn't leave much room to resign this year's 1st rounder the following year
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 07:57:35 PM
You guys literally love to invent excuses to not succeed for the hopes of a future we don't know even exists
A past his prime Rodgers is still better than anyone since Namath . Sorry not sorry. Are we even having this debate
Am I in the twilight zone ?
And what's preventing us is looking at a highly manipulated cap where Rodgers has confirmed any agreed trade will likely require him to renegotiate?
And we're still stuck on this Rainman stuff about future what ifs
Let's worry about the young core staying healthy and earning big deals before we downgrade at QB to a Jimmy G or Brissett band aid in hopes everyone stays healthy for 4 yrs and demands top dollar
We whiffed on QB and our elite talent window is now. Its just not at QB .
Hence the sacrifices you make . If you don't think Aaron Rodgers makes the team a contender fine . Say that . Rodgers at 39 is as good as Carr now . Let's be abundantly clear I'm fine with either.
The fact our other options are a guy whos guaranteed to miss games and 2 lifelong journeymen is laughable that we're splitting hairs on this
The only way you don't want this is if you're afraid we're gonna bend over at the trade table or if you're fine blowing this whole thing up with a new FO and Coaching staff next yr
Unless someone here thinks Zach can rebound in one offseason
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 28, 2023, 08:04:02 PM
Sometimes I wonder if you actually care this much about the cap or if you're just playing up to the persona that you've created on here.
The cap is irrelevant when it comes to making a run. As has been proven multiple times, it's possible to kick the cans down the road for a few years in order to win now; ask the Saints or the Rams if they regret it. We aren't going to not sign the Sauces and the Garretts and the Tuckers as a result of it, we're either going to lose everything around them or we're going to trade one or two of them to get us the draft picks for a rebuild. But as long as we have that Super Bowl victory then who cares? Literally every price is worth paying for that.
THIS!!!
Who cares if we spend 10 years in cap hell or we have no draft picks if we win a Super Bowl? This team hasn't won a title since the sixties and hasn't been in the playoffs at all for over a decade.
What good has all the great cap space done for us the past 3-4 regimes? We're near the top of the list for money to spend almost every year. On what? The next guy who uses us to inflate his market rate to get more from a team that actually wants to compete?
Win today. Tomorrow doesn't even exist.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 28, 2023, 08:05:46 PM
Rofl I work all day and come back to this .
You guys literally love to invent excuses to not succeed for the hopes of a future we don't know even exists
A past his prime Rodgers is still better than anyone since Namath . Sorry not sorry. Are we even having this debate
Am I in the twilight zone ?
And what's preventing us is looking at a highly manipulated cap where Rodgers has confirmed any agreed trade will likely require him to renegotiate?
And we're still stuck on this Rainman stuff about future what ifs
Let's worry about the young core staying healthy and earning big deals before we downgrade at QB to a Jimmy G or Brissett band aid in hopes everyone stays healthy for 4 yrs and demands top dollar
We whiffed on QB and our elite talent window is now. Its just not at QB .
Hence the sacrifices you make . If you don't think Aaron Rodgers makes the team a contender fine . Say that . Rodgers at 39 is as good as Carr now . Let's be abundantly clear I'm fine with either.
The fact our other options are a guy whos guaranteed to miss games and 2 lifelong journeymen is laughable that we're splitting hairs on this
The only way you don't want this is if you're afraid we're gonna bend over at the trade table or if you're fine blowing this whole thing up with a new FO and Coaching staff next yr
Unless someone here thinks Zach can rebound in one offseason
This guy gets it
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 28, 2023, 08:08:30 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 08:16:33 PM
FTR, I still lean heavily toward Carr as my choice, since I think he creates a larger window, but QAaron could put this team in the Super Bowl next year.Pretty much
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 08:16:50 PM
Sometimes I wonder if you actually care this much about the cap or if you're just playing up to the persona that you've created on here.
The cap is irrelevant when it comes to making a run. As has been proven multiple times, it's possible to kick the cans down the road for a few years in order to win now; ask the Saints or the Rams if they regret it. We aren't going to not sign the Sauces and the Garretts and the Tuckers as a result of it, we're either going to lose everything around them or we're going to trade one or two of them to get us the draft picks for a rebuild. But as long as we have that Super Bowl victory then who cares? Literally every price is worth paying for that.
I'm not talking about just cap
Just overall compensation
Which is a combination of cap space and trade compensation
I'm simply saying win now, just not at any cost
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 08:22:24 PM
I'm not talking about just capcreating moneyball metrics now lol
Just overall compensation
Which is a combination of cap space and trade compensation
I'm simply saying win now, just not at any cost
Nobody here is saying Ditka the draft or hand over two 1sts off the bat
I think at this point let's just let the dust settle then we can argue value
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 08:25:04 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 28, 2023, 08:30:32 PM
Exactly what I'm alluding to. Plus the value of the 1st plummets when you're future playoff teamThat's why I'd like to keep 13 if possible and push the highest draft pick into next year.
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
That's why I'd like to keep 13 if possible and push the highest draft pick into next year.My suggestion is days old of a 2nd in 23 and a 3rd in 24 that's a 2nd with a playoff appearance ans 1st with afccg appearance
I'd sign up for that right now
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 08:50:09 PM
creating moneyball metrics now lol
Nobody here is saying Ditka the draft or hand over two 1sts off the bat
I think at this point let's just let the dust settle then we can argue value
I'm not getting that advanced
I'm saying if the terms for Rodgers is something like a 1st and 4 years 200 million, that's probably the absolute max I'm okay with
But I'd also want some trade structure to insulate us, because let's be honest if Rodgers comes here and isn't great, you can easily see him saying freak this and retiring
Post by: MBGreen on January 28, 2023, 08:55:43 PM
I prefer my quarterbacks to not be the product of fetal alcohol syndrome.What's your excuse for Sam Darnold?
Post by: delavan on January 28, 2023, 10:02:20 PM
2023 AR12 ----> 2025 AR15 Lamar 2.0
Post by: bojanglesman on January 28, 2023, 10:29:36 PM
THIS!!!Getting Rodgers doesn't guarantee a Super Bowl. It doesn't even guarantee the playoffs. Hell, signing him doesn't even guarantee he makes it to week 1.
Who cares if we spend 10 years in cap hell or we have no draft picks if we win a Super Bowl? This team hasn't won a title since the sixties and hasn't been in the playoffs at all for over a decade.
What good has all the great cap space done for us the past 3-4 regimes? We're near the top of the list for money to spend almost every year. On what? The next guy who uses us to inflate his market rate to get more from a team that actually wants to compete?
Win today. Tomorrow doesn't even exist.
I would be very happy to have him here. I'll be blasting jizz all over the place like the rest of you, but I'm not blind to the fact that it could blow up in our face. Definitely an all-in move, but not as crazy as the Watson or Russell Wilson deals.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 10:37:06 PM
Getting Rodgers doesn't guarantee a Super Bowl. It doesn't even guarantee the playoffs. Hell, signing him doesn't even guarantee he makes it to week 1.
I would be very happy to have him here. I'll be blasting jizz all over the place like the rest of you, but I'm not blind to the fact that it could blow up in our face. Definitely an all-in move, but not as crazy as the Watson or Russell Wilson deals.
Depending on compensation it could be more crazy
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 28, 2023, 10:40:10 PM
Depending on compensation it could be more crazyI think it is the same thing as the Wilson deal. We have a very good defense and some good pieces on offense where you can argue we are a QB away.
We dont know what would have happened in Denver if Wilson (and Hackett) weren't so bad. If Wilson played like the guy they thought they were trading for, maybe they're a contender.
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 10:40:34 PM
If the goal is to make the playoffs and then worry about the QB position every off season because of declining play and possible retirement then Rodgers is your guy.The goal is to win now because half this team won't be here when they're gonna get paid whether it's Rodgers or anyone else
2023 AR12 ----> 2025 AR15 Lamar 2.0
Having Rodgers doesn't threaten drafting another prospect .
But theres no reality where we draft AR in the 1st . Not unless we're unloading other players for current draft capital
The elephant in the room is most fans see young talent and finally want to have patience. That went out the window when Saleh refused to replace Knapp and put way too much faith in LaFleur . The same things people feel good about with the current status of this roster were brought to you by the people who will be carrying their excrement in a cardboard box next February if they're not in the playoffs .
This changes the dynamics of how you build the roster to keep people employed .
The whole goal of this is to win rings . Complaining about mortgaging potential for the tangible is senseless given the current status of the FO and the fact this window will slam closed. We've got 3 years worth of 1st rd picks and 4 1st rd talents (Hall) in 1 yr .
You're going to want yo keep costs down 4 or 5 years from now.
Their current cost is what makes this all sensible even if you eat 2 years of dead cap on the back end
I think we're either getting AR or Carr. And if your first rd is still in tact you get OL or WR.
I'd take AR in the 2nd in quite a few scenarios . I can't imagine taking him at 13 in any of them and feeling like we've made the best use of our resources vs the options out there
The only reality I see that happening is if you settle for Jimmy G or Brisset or Minshew as the band aid and you think AR is the answer.
But either road you're relying on JD to make good on any mid rd picks for the next 4 yrs to sustain the roster due to the likelihood of needing to pay at least 3 big deals in 4 yrs
So again. We can almost certainly make a deep run now
Or
We can hope someone who looks like a good prospect carries us in 2 yrs
Like we felt witb Zach like we felt with Sam like we felt with Mark like we felt with Chad
If we got him in a trade down I'd be cool but not at 13.
There's gonna be some serious talent that gets pushed down to 13 with the run on QBs and we can either pick someone or likely trade down for good value . Which ties back into my late 1st grade on him
The dearth of quality qb play is gonna make 3 qbs in the top 10 very routine regardless if they deserve it or not
All of this might be moot if AR destroys the combine and gets the Zach wilson rise and he's not even on the board at 13
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 28, 2023, 10:50:19 PM
Post by: delavan on January 28, 2023, 10:51:47 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 10:56:04 PM
I think it is the same thing as the Wilson deal. We have a very good defense and some good pieces on offense where you can argue we are a QB away.
We dont know what would have happened in Denver if Wilson (and Hackett) weren't so bad. If Wilson played like the guy they thought they were trading for, maybe they're a contender.
Minus the part about Wilson being 33 and Rodgers being 40 next year
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 11:05:44 PM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1619109406548836352We're using rich cimini as a mic drop?
Look I don't care if we miss on AR . But the pivot should he to aggressively pursue Carr
Again I laid out how AR15 ends here but it's not really my top choice . Just a route I'm cognizant of existing in tbe even we fail to legitimately upgrade beyond Jimmy G I'm injured A Lot Aren't I
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 11:07:20 PM
Minus the part about Wilson being 33 and Rodgers being 40 next yearYou want 7 more years of what russ was cooking ?
Yeah im done here
Post by: Coach K on January 28, 2023, 11:11:03 PM
Anything after that is not exciting in the slightest to be honest lol
We can be the bucs with Brady or we can be the redskins with Heinecke . Admirable effort and close almost beat said bucs
Haven't done excrement since
Thats where I'm at now lol this is what this team has done to me
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2023, 11:29:12 PM
You want 7 more years of what russ was cooking ?
Yeah im done here
I'm suggesting when the trade was executed, not in hindsight
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2023, 12:26:30 AM
What's your excuse for Sam Darnold?Adam Gase
Post by: delavan on January 29, 2023, 12:49:12 AM
We're using rich cimini as a mic drop?Cimini as a mic drop? No and didn't mean for it to come off that way.
Look I don't care if we miss on AR . But the pivot should he to aggressively pursue Carr
Again I laid out how AR15 ends here but it's not really my top choice . Just a route I'm cognizant of existing in tbe even we fail to legitimately upgrade beyond Jimmy G I'm injured A Lot Aren't I
Rogers: is this costing a 1st? If JD could swing a deal that retains the #13 pick great; OT skronski/jones/johnson or WR e.g. JS-M?
Post by: MBGreen on January 29, 2023, 07:21:06 AM
Adam GaseDarmold had fetal alcohol syndrome long before Gase got ahold of him
Post by: bojanglesman on January 29, 2023, 07:48:04 AM
AR at 13 could happen if we whiff on Carr and Rodgers stays. If the answer is someone like Jimmy or worse, you need a legit competitor. Maybe the Jets are convinced Zach can be that guy.AR at 13?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 29, 2023, 07:53:01 AM
I think it is the same thing as the Wilson deal. We have a very good defense and some good pieces on offense where you can argue we are a QB away.Length of deal remaining is a huge difference. The Broncos are stuck with him for at least 3 more years, and even after that, they have to eat a huge excrement sandwich on the cap. Rodgers is basically 2 years worth of big cap numbers in total-maybe divided over three years.
We dont know what would have happened in Denver if Wilson (and Hackett) weren't so bad. If Wilson played like the guy they thought they were trading for, maybe they're a contender.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 29, 2023, 10:09:09 AM
Post by: Coach K on January 29, 2023, 10:35:22 AM
Sounds like Rodgers is getting traded and the betting odds are on the Jets.Anything new or just your take off tbe last few days?
.and I don't mean thst in a smug way lol
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2023, 10:48:30 AM
Anything new or just your take off tbe last few days?Schefter this morning saying the Packers want to move on from him.
.and I don't mean thst in a smug way lol
Post by: MBGreen on January 29, 2023, 10:58:03 AM
Schefter this morning saying the Packers want to move on from him.Doesn't mean he's coming here.
Post by: Coach K on January 29, 2023, 11:02:00 AM
Not gonna be shocked when Rodgers retires
Carr goes to Carllina
Jimmy G to Raiders
And we got our dick in our hands lol
I'm not getting my hopes up. Lol
Post by: MBGreen on January 29, 2023, 11:11:07 AM
Ahh well at least something concrete . Welp the bidding war is going on as we speakI'm absolutely not getting my hopes up. As a jets fan, been burned too many times.
Not gonna be shocked when Rodgers retires
Carr goes to Carllina
Jimmy G to Raiders
And we got our dick in our hands lol
I'm not getting my hopes up. Lol
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 29, 2023, 11:19:49 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 29, 2023, 11:20:53 AM
The leagues is trying really hard to freak with our emotions this offseason.Totally.
I'm not biting this time.
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2023, 11:53:59 AM
Doesn't mean he's coming here.
No, of course not. I was just replying to Coach K's question as to whether there was new news, which there is, kinda.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 12:09:34 PM
Ahh well at least something concrete . Welp the bidding war is going on as we speak
Not gonna be shocked when Rodgers retires
Carr goes to Carllina
Jimmy G to Raiders
And we got our dick in our hands lol
I'm not getting my hopes up. Lol
Is there not a reasonable chance the Rodgers saga is sorted out before free agency even begins?
From the Packers perspective they'll have more bidders in on Rodgers before teams go after free agents. And from team perspectives it'll give them a chance to go after fallback options if they miss
Of course Rodgers and his future is the biggest variable in this, but if he wants to play the sooner he decides the more options he has available to him.
This would also mean that the Rodgers Saga would have to be settled essentially in the next 3 weeks
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 29, 2023, 12:10:45 PM
Length of deal remaining is a huge difference. The Broncos are stuck with him for at least 3 more years, and even after that, they have to eat a huge excrement sandwich on the cap. Rodgers is basically 2 years worth of big cap numbers in total-maybe divided over three years.Exactly.
Yes, Rodgers is older. That also means less of a long-term commitment.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 12:21:22 PM
Exactly.
Yes, Rodgers is older. That also means less of a long-term commitment.
As far as I'm concerned draft compensation is also long term commitment.
If the Jets give up some of the higher (realistic) trade packages, that's a long term commitment.
Like if we give up 13 (or potentially 13 and then some) to me that's a commitment of more than 2 years.
You don't rent a player for 1 or 2 years for a pick that should be giving you a very good or even an elite player for the next 10-15 years
Post by: Andrew Ryan on January 29, 2023, 12:38:15 PM
You don't rent a player for 1 or 2 years for a pick that should be giving you a very good or even an elite player for the next 10-15 years
That is not the standard.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 12:47:19 PM
That is not the standard.
Okay let's change should to could
But at the minimum the 13th pick should be getting you a good player in his very early 20s, playing for very little money for 5 years
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2023, 12:51:19 PM
Okay let's change should to could
But at the minimum the 13th pick should be getting you a good player in his very early 20s, playing for very little money for 5 years
Yes, but two years of an elite QB is massively more impactful than 5 years of a good safety. Depending on where the club is at, one may be the more attractive option than the other. For us right now, it's the former.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 01:01:11 PM
Yes, but two years of an elite QB is massively more impactful than 5 years of a good safety. Depending on where the club is at, one may be the more attractive option than the other. For us right now, it's the former.
Very true
But you're talking about 5 years of a very good safety, with the assumption that you'll be able to resign them or trade them, plus having an extra 40-50 million a year in cap space.
And again I'm not arguing against Rodgers, I brought him up months ago as an option. This is entirely a matter of compensation to me (I think that should be anyone's stance tbh, thoguh I understand the win now by any means necessary mentality)
I guess to me I just feel like this team has a better chance of winning a SB in say 3-5 years than it does in the next 1-2. And this is before even factoring in teams like the bengals bills chiefs who are still operating on very favorable terms due to their QB situations
So to me you do try to win each and every year and go with the "BPA" mentality as far as using all resources. But ultimately I think this team's best chances at winning it all dictates a slow and steady approach
Post by: reuben on January 29, 2023, 02:39:04 PM
Yes, but two years of an elite QB is massively more impactful than 5 years of a good safety.
Yeah, but he's not elite. Not anymore. Two years (maybe) of a geriatric has-been is likely less impactful than whomever we would pick in the first round.
Rodgers to NYJ isn't Stafford to the Rams. It's closer to Matt Ryan to the Colts, both in the quality of the quarterback and the roster to which he's projected.
Post by: MBGreen on January 29, 2023, 02:43:00 PM
Yeah, but he's not elite. Not anymore. Two years (maybe) of a geriatric has-been is likely less impactful than whomever we would pick in the first round.Correct.
Rodgers to NYJ isn't Stafford to the Rams. It's closer to Matt Ryan to the Colts, both in the quality of the quarterback and the roster to which he's projected.
So anything more than a 3rd round pick and a conditional pick in 2024 is basically larceny for the Packers
Post by: Badger on January 29, 2023, 03:33:29 PM
AR at 13?Anthony Richardson, QB, Florida
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
Yeah, but he's not elite. Not anymore. Two years (maybe) of a geriatric has-been is likely less impactful than whomever we would pick in the first round.
Rodgers to NYJ isn't Stafford to the Rams. It's closer to Matt Ryan to the Colts, both in the quality of the quarterback and the roster to which he's projected.
I don't think there's any way at all you can say that as anything other than an opinion. There are a bunch of reasons why his play might have fallen off this year, but what we do know for a fact is that 12 months ago he was the league MVP.
Again, we don't need him to be 2011 Aaron Rodgers. 2022 Aaron Rodgers on the Jets wins us the division and we're quite possibly playing today.
Post by: reuben on January 29, 2023, 03:57:17 PM
There are a bunch of reasons why his play might have fallen off this year
There's one: he's 39. Expecting that last season was just an odd off year and that he'll surely improve the year he turns 40 is insane.
Again, we don't need him to be 2011 Aaron Rodgers. 2022 Aaron Rodgers on the Jets wins us the division and we're quite possibly playing today.
Tell me you didn't watch the Packers last season without telling me you didn't watch the Packers last season.
Post by: Badger on January 29, 2023, 03:57:32 PM
Also, his down year wasn't even worse than Carr's 2022.
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2023, 03:58:43 PM
Rodgers played through a hand injury for a significant chunk of the season. That's got to be theory #1 for his down year.
He also lost his OC and his primary receiving weapon.
Post by: Badger on January 29, 2023, 04:00:42 PM
He also lost his OC and his primary receiving weapon.These plus age make up reasons 2 through 4.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 05:00:30 PM
I don't think there's any way at all you can say that as anything other than an opinion. There are a bunch of reasons why his play might have fallen off this year, but what we do know for a fact is that 12 months ago he was the league MVP.
Again, we don't need him to be 2011 Aaron Rodgers. 2022 Aaron Rodgers on the Jets wins us the division and we're quite possibly playing today.
Look what happened to Peyton Manning 2 seasons after what was possibly the best season by a QB ever.
Old age is a killer
The risk of Rodgers is real. But as you said so is the upside.
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2023, 05:17:02 PM
Look what happened to Peyton Manning 2 seasons after what was possibly the best season by a QB ever.
Old age is a killer
The risk of Rodgers is real. But as you said so is the upside.
He won the Super Bowl?
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 05:22:26 PM
He won the Super Bowl?
If you think the Jets are good enough to win the SB with a QB throwing 9 tds, 17 INTs with 2200 passing yards and a sub 60% completion percentage we should just start Zach Wilson
Post by: bojanglesman on January 29, 2023, 05:35:37 PM
He is 1 season removed from multiple elite level seasons. I don't believe he just all of a sudden regressed to mediocre. Hell, his stats were still good.
We won 7 games with diarrhea at QB.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 29, 2023, 05:39:02 PM
My opinion depends entirely on the draft compensation.
Post by: MBGreen on January 29, 2023, 05:42:02 PM
I think it's a major risk to make that move for a lot of picks. But the reward is potentially very high and given where the team is in the rebuild and where Douglas is in his job security, I can understand it and couldn't blame him.This
My opinion depends entirely on the draft compensation.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 29, 2023, 05:57:48 PM
If we have to make a similar trade as to what we paid for Favre then I wouldn’t be upset about. Again, paying a first round or more for him is a bad deal.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 29, 2023, 05:59:00 PM
Imagine this organization if we trade for Rodgers, get Favred again, and Woody cleans house.I'm numb to it.
Post by: Jumbo on January 29, 2023, 05:59:17 PM
This team has enough talent to take the risk. The playoffs can be a crapshoot if you have a good QB. I can't believe we have people in here nitpicking Aaron freaking Rodgers when we haven't had a QB throw 10 TD in 3 years. Rodgers at 25% of his peak skill could probably still do that for us. The draft capital should ideally be somewhat commensurate with the talent we get in return, but if we have to overpay we have to overpay. We aren't competing for anything serious without competence at QB and we clearly can't develop one ourselves. If it takes #13 to get Rodgers, it takes #13. (or if we grab Carr or something, it's fine, but my point is that we can't hoard the draft picks here).
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 29, 2023, 06:02:08 PM
It's much more delusional to want to hoard our draft capital than to want to move for a QB who could potentially put us over the hump. The AFC is really tough, you have to get past Burrow and Mahomes, our own division has no easy outs with Josh Allen, the Dolphins offense, and Belichick, and that's not even mentioning guys like Lawrence, Herbert, Lamar who could be significant problems moving forward. If you think we're getting anywhere without some sense of competent QB play you're completely delusional.
This team has enough talent to take the risk. The playoffs can be a crapshoot if you have a good QB. I can't believe we have people in here nitpicking Aaron freaking Rodgers when we haven't had a QB throw 10 TD in 3 years. Rodgers at 25% of his peak skill could probably still do that for us. The draft capital should ideally be somewhat commensurate with the talent we get in return, but if we have to overpay we have to overpay. We aren't competing for anything serious without competence at QB and we clearly can't develop one ourselves.
This team will have a lot more holes in the roster next season than we had this past one nd we don’t have the salary cap room.
you cannot evaluate a potential trade for any QB without considering that. Overpaying for a QB who likely will be gone after two seasons is a ridiculously stupid move.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 29, 2023, 06:03:18 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 06:04:37 PM
It's much more delusional to want to hoard our draft capital than to want to move for a QB who could potentially put us over the hump. The AFC is really tough, you have to get past Burrow and Mahomes, our own division has no easy outs with Josh Allen, the Dolphins offense, and Belichick, and that's not even mentioning guys like Lawrence, Herbert, Lamar who could be significant problems moving forward. If you think we're getting anywhere without some sense of competent QB play you're completely delusional.
This team has enough talent to take the risk. The playoffs can be a crapshoot if you have a good QB. I can't believe we have people in here nitpicking Aaron freaking Rodgers when we haven't had a QB throw 10 TD in 3 years. Rodgers at 25% of his peak skill could probably still do that for us. The draft capital should ideally be somewhat commensurate with the talent we get in return, but if we have to overpay we have to overpay. We aren't competing for anything serious without competence at QB and we clearly can't develop one ourselves.
Nobody is talking about hoarding picks.
What's the most compensation ever given up for any nfl player who would be at least 40 in his first season with the new team?
I don't want to be the team who absolutely blows that number out of the water
Post by: Jumbo on January 29, 2023, 06:05:32 PM
This team will have a lot more holes in the roster next season than we had this past one nd we don’t have the salary cap room.
you cannot evaluate a potential trade for any QB without considering that. Overpaying for a QB who likely will be gone after two seasons is a ridiculously stupid move.
Who are we losing that's creating such bigger holes? A mediocre starting center and a rotational pass rusher? Getting a guy like Rodgers in also will allow us to sign some cheaper vets to help fill those holes as well. We can mortgage the cap a bit while guys like GW and Sauce are on rookie deals.
Overpaying for a QB who has a chance to take you to get a ring is in no way stupid. The Rams gave up a top 5 pick in this year's draft to get Stafford and they don't regret it for a second.
Post by: Jumbo on January 29, 2023, 06:07:27 PM
Nobody is talking about hoarding picks.
What's the most compensation ever given up for any nfl player who would be at least 40 in his first season with the new team?
I don't want to be the team who absolutely blows that number out of the water
How much would Brady have fetched if New England had traded him 5 years ago instead of letting him walk? I imagine he would have gotten a first rounder plus. It's unprecedented because guys are playing longer.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 29, 2023, 06:10:32 PM
Who are we losing that's creating such bigger holes? A mediocre starting center and a rotational pass rusher? Getting a guy like Rodgers in also will allow us to sign some cheaper vets to help fill those holes as well. We can mortgage the cap a bit while guys like GW and Sauce are on rookie deals.
Overpaying for a QB who has a chance to take you to get a ring is in no way stupid. The Rams gave up a top 5 pick in this year's draft to get Stafford and they don't regret it for a second.
OK, let's do this:
-Starting Center
-Both starting OLBs
-Starting Strong Safety
-Quinnen freaking Williams
-Starting RT
-Multiple rotational pass rushers who were part of the reason that the defense was actually formidable.
-Probably the 37 year old starting LT with the massive shoulder injury
-Almost forgot our X receiver
This team is not in the position you think they are.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 06:10:51 PM
Who are we losing that's creating such bigger holes? A mediocre starting center and a rotational pass rusher? Getting a guy like Rodgers in also will allow us to sign some cheaper vets to help fill those holes as well. We can mortgage the cap a bit while guys like GW and Sauce are on rookie deals.
Overpaying for a QB who has a chance to take you to get a ring is in no way stupid. The Rams gave up a top 5 pick in this year's draft to get Stafford and they don't regret it for a second.
Stafford was 32?
Not to mention the Rams were making the SB before even making that move. It the Jets had gotten to the AFC championship game or SB we 100% should be discussing getting Rodgers by any means necessary to put us over the top.
We weren't even a wildcard team. While Rodgers absolutely makes us a playoff team. I'd reasonably say it's quite likely the Bills Bengals and Chiefs at minimum are all probably still better teams than us.
Imagine selling the farm for a 40 year old QB to become a wildcard team
Post by: Jumbo on January 29, 2023, 06:13:25 PM
OK, let's do this:
-Starting Center
-Both starting OLBs
-Starting Strong Safety
-Quinnen freaking Williams
-Starting RT
-Yes, the rotational pass rusher who was part of the reason that the defense was actually formidable.
-Probably the 37 year old starting LT with the massive shoulder injury
This team is not in the position you think they are.
We have Q under contract for another season no matter what. Yeah, we're losing guys to free agency like every other team. None of them are in the top 10 players in talent on this team. I'm not losing sleep over losing our shitty tackles and Lamarcus Joyner. It's not like trading for a QB prevents us from signing anyone else either. If anything it would boost our ability to sign players for less money than they would normally sign for.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 06:13:36 PM
How much would Brady have fetched if New England had traded him 5 years ago instead of letting him walk? I imagine he would have gotten a first rounder plus. It's unprecedented because guys are playing longer.
Completely reasonable point. But Rodgers depends on his athletic gifts much more than Brady. And as good as Rodgers is, Brady is generally considered the greatest of all time.
Not to mention with Rodgers is the screaming banshee in the room, that this guy has seriously been mulling over retirement every single year. While Brady has been vocal that he wants to play until he's 170
Post by: bojanglesman on January 29, 2023, 06:14:54 PM
Post by: Jumbo on January 29, 2023, 06:16:19 PM
Stafford was 32?
Not to mention the Rams were making the SB before even making that move. It the Jets had gotten to the AFC championship game or SB we 100% should be discussing getting Rodgers by any means necessary to put us over the top.
We weren't even a wildcard team. While Rodgers absolutely makes us a playoff team. I'd reasonably say it's quite likely the Bills Bengals and Chiefs at minimum are all probably still better teams than us.
Imagine selling the farm for a 40 year old QB to become a wildcard team
This is the only reasonable concern but there's no point in being scared of that. All those teams' QBs are 27 and under and will be there forever. If that's what we're afraid of then we should just continue trying to draft someone every year until we get the franchise guy. That's an option but I don't think it's a particularly great one given the current state of the team.
The Rams were in good position because they had decent to good-sometimes borderline elite QB play with Goff. We would even kill for a guy to play like Goff for us. We were 7-4 before losing 6 straight despite bottom 3 QB play in the league because of how talented the team is, and we're not losing anyone to FA. If you don't think adding a top 5-10 QB of all time, even past his prime, puts us potentially in Super Bowl contention, I don't know what would besides playing the QB draft lottery for the rest of time.
Post by: MBGreen on January 29, 2023, 06:21:54 PM
This is the only reasonable concern but there's no point in being scared of that. All those teams' QBs are 27 and under and will be there forever. If that's what we're afraid of then we should just continue trying to draft someone every year until we get the franchise guy. That's an option but I don't think it's a particularly great one given the current state of the team.Not for multiple 1st round picks...sorry.
The Rams were in good position because they had decent to good-sometimes borderline elite QB play with Goff. We would even kill for a guy to play like Goff for us. We were 7-4 before losing 6 straight despite bottom 3 QB play in the league because of how talented the team is, and we're not losing anyone to FA. If you don't think adding a top 5-10 QB of all time, even past his prime, puts us potentially in Super Bowl contention, I don't know what would besides playing the QB draft lottery for the rest of time.
Post by: Coach K on January 29, 2023, 06:21:54 PM
Post by: Coach K on January 29, 2023, 06:23:20 PM
Post by: Jumbo on January 29, 2023, 06:23:47 PM
Not for multiple 1st round picks...sorry.
If it's for multiple i imagine the '24 one will be conditional based on some performance-related 2023 things, in which case I would be happy to give it up as well. But there should be no qualms about giving up #13 if we have to IMO. If we could swap #13 for Rodgers with a restructured contract we should send in the paperwork today.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 29, 2023, 06:27:25 PM
If it's for multiple i imagine the '24 one will be conditional based on some performance-related 2023 things, in which case I would be happy to give it up as well. But there should be no qualms about giving up #13 if we have to IMO. If we could swap #13 for Rodgers with a restructured contract we should send in the paperwork today.
This would not be ideal.
Post by: MBGreen on January 29, 2023, 06:27:52 PM
If it's for multiple i imagine the '24 one will be conditional based on some performance-related 2023 things, in which case I would be happy to give it up as well. But there should be no qualms about giving up #13 if we have to IMO. If we could swap #13 for Rodgers with a restructured contract we should send in the paperwork today.I'm not opposed to giving up draft capital for Rodgers...but no 1st round picks should be given up for a 40 year old QB. Not every 40 yr old QB is gonna play like Tom Brady.
You give up a 3rd this year...and a 3rd next year that could move up to a 2nd or even a 1 depending how far we go in the playoffs.
I want some cost assurance here
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 29, 2023, 06:29:23 PM
Post by: Jumbo on January 29, 2023, 06:32:39 PM
I'm not opposed to giving up draft capital for Rodgers...but no 1st round picks should be given up for a 40 year old QB. Not every 40 yr old QB is gonna play like Tom Brady.
You give up a 3rd this year...and a 3rd next year that could move up to a 2nd or even a 1 depending how far we go in the playoffs.
I want some cost assurance here
Then we can enjoy losing him to someone else who will pay up to get him. Put retirement protections on the '24 pick and it should still be fine.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 06:36:11 PM
Then we can enjoy losing him to someone else who will pay up to get him. Put retirement protections on the '24 pick and it should still be fine.
Rodgers does have some leverage here.
The guy can either threaten to retire or refuse to rework his contract.
At the end of the day I think Rodgers will have a short list of teams he wants to go to. And hopefully if we're among them, he does his part in giving the Jets some leverage so we could get him for something resembling reasonable
It's not like this is going to be some. UFA mayhem where we are bidding against 10 teams
Post by: reuben on January 29, 2023, 06:39:33 PM
Rodgers played through a hand injury for a significant chunk of the season. That's got to be theory #1 for his down year.
If Aaron Rodgers is healthy, he would have a good season, right now. Good enough to get this team in the playoffs with the chance to go far into them. I'll go out on a limb and say his regression was injury related and a reduced surrounding cast.
Injuries happen, and they tend to happen more frequently and more severely to older players. Again... the dude is 39. If Tom Brady didn't exist, it wouldn't even be up for debate that Rodgers is past due to fall off the steepest of cliffs.
If the hand injury turned him into a JAG QB, wait until you see what happens to him behind our offensive line.
Post by: Johnny English on January 29, 2023, 06:40:32 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 29, 2023, 06:45:02 PM
Then we can enjoy losing him to someone else who will pay up to get him. Put retirement protections on the '24 pick and it should still be fine.Hes not the only option out there
Post by: bojanglesman on January 29, 2023, 06:45:20 PM
Post by: Badger on January 29, 2023, 08:18:05 PM
Who is giving up two 1sts for Rodgers at this point? No one normal has suggested that. Peter King is old.The same imaginary team that's breaking the bank for Jimmy G.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 29, 2023, 08:43:51 PM
Who is giving up two 1sts for Rodgers at this point? No one normal has suggested that. Peter King is old.
If the 49ers could do something significant with Lance giving up two firsts for Rodgers could make sense for them. Probably the only team in the league that theoretically would make any sense for.
Lance kind of fucks that up, but that's a team who I could see winning 2 SBs with Rodgers, and that he might actually be willing to play another 4-5 years for.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 30, 2023, 08:56:19 AM
AR at 13 could happen if we whiff on Carr and Rodgers stays.
Why would Joe Douglas draft a QB that is a year away from starting? He's also a pretty bad fit in the WCO.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 30, 2023, 08:59:37 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 30, 2023, 09:03:57 AM
Anthony Richardson, QB, FloridaProbably shouldn't abbreviate AR for a draft pick considering we are also talking about Aaron Rodgers.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 30, 2023, 09:24:17 AM
Why would Joe Douglas draft a QB that is a year away from starting? He's also a pretty bad fit in the WCO.Because if the answer at QB is Jacoby Brissett or Taylor Heinicke, that isn't a real answer. That's a bridge to a real QB, and we should have a higher upside option to go with them if we whiff on the big names.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 30, 2023, 02:43:00 PM
Because if the answer at QB is Jacoby Brissett or Taylor Heinicke, that isn't a real answer. That's a bridge to a real QB, and we should have a higher upside option to go with them if we whiff on the big names.
Ah yes, Christian Blackenburg
Post by: Heismanberg on January 30, 2023, 03:01:10 PM
That's a bridge to a real QB
We should wait until 2024 for that then
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 30, 2023, 03:37:10 PM
We should wait until 2024 for that thenIf we don't get Carr, Lamar or Rodgers, that may be another GM making that 2024 pick.
Douglas picking a QB this year could help extend his tenure if he takes a rookie QB that looks like he has a future and actually has a good rookie season (not a bad one we try to spin as good).
I'm starting to wonder if the best solution may just be to keep building the rest of the roster and try to be the 49ers. Spend our resources on both lines and dominate there. Go cheap at QB with some bridge backup and have them compete with Zach and either another vet or a mid-round pick, and hope you can manufacture league-average QB play like the 49ers and Seahawks did with rookies/cheap vets.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 30, 2023, 04:06:33 PM
One thing I didn't consider regarding draft pick compensation for Rodgers is that the Packers have to eat a bunch of money to trade him. That might drive up the compensation a little more than I thought, but I can't imagine it being two 1st rounders.
Did you consider what happens if the Packers don't trade him?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 30, 2023, 04:44:24 PM
Did you consider what happens if the Packers don't trade him?Oh it's rough. I'm looking from the perspective of the receiving team. The Packers eat a good chunk of his contract. It certainly isn't the only factor, and like I said, I see no way a team gives up multiple 1st rounders for him and his contract.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 30, 2023, 06:17:16 PM
Oh it's rough. I'm looking from the perspective of the receiving team. The Packers eat a good chunk of his contract. It certainly isn't the only factor, and like I said, I see no way a team gives up multiple 1st rounders for him and his contract.
I was getting that they're going to pay him whether he stays or goes.
At the end of the day it comes down to do they have any interest in seeing what Love can offer?
If the answer is yes, then they have no choice but to trade Rodgers.
And sure his cap hit gets accelerated, but you can just move other money around.
I think his value is going to be determined by how stubborn Rodgers will be about where he goes. Which hopefully is very
Post by: dcm1602 on January 30, 2023, 07:50:42 PM
Most significantly that the 49ers may now have a need at QB (presumably Jimmy G)
Even if you're not interested in Jimmy G it'll impact Rodgers and Carr
Post by: MBGreen on January 30, 2023, 07:53:20 PM
I've seen some beat (Cimini) talking about the impact of Purdys injury could have on the QB marketBrady to SF
Most significantly that the 49ers may now have a need at QB (presumably Jimmy G)
Even if you're not interested in Jimmy G it'll impact Rodgers and Carr
Post by: Johnny English on January 30, 2023, 08:10:55 PM
Brady to SF
Rodgers to finally right the wrong and play for his boyhood team who chose Alex Smith over him.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 30, 2023, 08:13:54 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 30, 2023, 08:19:16 PM
excrement didn't even think of the Brady to 49ers at this point , but that makes way too much sense
Except it doesn't because his kids live in Florida with his wife and based on everything he's said to date he probably doesn't want to live on the other side of the country from them.
Post by: MBGreen on January 30, 2023, 08:30:23 PM
Except it doesn't because his kids live in Florida with his wife and based on everything he's said to date he probably doesn't want to live on the other side of the country from them.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230131/2645756ef9fcc3616f030418ca66ca21.jpg)
Post by: dcm1602 on January 30, 2023, 09:50:40 PM
Except it doesn't because his kids live in Florida with his wife and based on everything he's said to date he probably doesn't want to live on the other side of the country from them.
I don't know anything about his wife
But if you're a half billion dollars super model how often you really gonna be at home?
Post by: Johnny English on January 30, 2023, 10:02:30 PM
I don't know anything about his wife
But if you're a half billion dollars super model how often you really gonna be at home?
freak if I know. If I was a supermodel I'd stay home fingering myself in the mirror probably.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2023, 07:41:31 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 31, 2023, 08:33:07 AM
Saleh's birthday today...go get him a QB
Cupcake, best I can do.
Post by: Coach K on January 31, 2023, 10:03:02 AM
Cupcake, best I can do.Plot twist
It's a shroom filled cupcake from Rodgers
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2023, 12:04:30 PM
Quote
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
11m
The #Ravens will be franchise tagging QB Lamar Jackson this offseason, according to @RapSheet
Adds that his sense is that it would be the "Exclusive Franchise Tag" which prevents teams from signing him.
I hope Lamar holds out....
Post by: bojanglesman on January 31, 2023, 12:59:35 PM
Let it go.
I hope Lamar holds out....
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2023, 01:17:27 PM
Let it go.
watch Fubar 2, and i'll think about it.
Post by: MBGreen on January 31, 2023, 01:29:25 PM
@AdamSchefter
·
1m
Aaron Rodgers on @PatMcAfeeShow
: “It sounds like there’s already conversations going on that aren’t involving me, which are interesting.”
Rodgers said he’s still taking his time, “but I’m not a part of those conversations right now.”
Post by: bojanglesman on January 31, 2023, 02:06:52 PM
Quote
Aaron Rodgers, speaking on the @PatMcAfeeShow, says it's too soon to say whether Nathaniel Hackett (or any other coach he likes) will impact any decision on where he might play in '23. But he lists Hackett among his favorites. "Love Hack. Hack is my guy. Love him and Megan and the kids. They're really special to me. We really bonded when he was in Green Bay. He made it fun. He made the room fun. He made the weeks fun." Rodgers says he still hasn't made decision on whether he will play.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 31, 2023, 02:13:21 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 31, 2023, 02:59:24 PM
I think that means if he gets hurt in that game, his salary is guaranteed from the Raiders. Might expedite things.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 31, 2023, 03:09:30 PM
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2023, 03:48:08 PM
If he gets hurt in a flag football game I don't want anything to do with him hahaRobert Edwards szn
Post by: Coach K on January 31, 2023, 09:56:40 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 01, 2023, 10:48:21 AM
Kill some time with an offseason QB scenario.
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2023, 11:00:44 AM
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35553112/simulating-nfl-quarterback-offseason-change-projections-trade-offers-free-agent-signings-draft-picks-2023
Kill some time with an offseason QB scenario.
Fun exercise and I'd be happy with that outcome.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 01, 2023, 11:05:53 AM
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2023, 11:25:10 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 01, 2023, 11:35:29 AM
Bit nerve racking to have to wait that long to know our QB plans though.
I'm confident we can secure Jacoby Brissett now.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 01, 2023, 12:13:51 PM
Bit nerve racking to have to wait that long to know our QB plans though.We haven't had a QB in 15 years, what's another month?
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2023, 12:17:19 PM
We haven't had a QB in 15 years, what's another month?
The fear that the music will stop and we'll be the ones left without a chair.
Post by: MBGreen on February 01, 2023, 12:18:30 PM
The fear that the music will stop and we'll be the ones left without a chair.
you mean "status quo"?
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2023, 12:20:07 PM
you mean "status quo"?
Exactly. I'm daring to have optimism when it comes to Douglas and Saleh, and I'm afraid of being let down. At least with Gase and Idzik and their ilk I expected nothing, so I wasn't surprised when it's exactly what I got.
Post by: Badger on February 01, 2023, 12:21:51 PM
The fear that the music will stop and we'll be the ones left without a chair.We'll still have a Zach.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 01, 2023, 12:26:55 PM
The fear that the music will stop and we'll be the ones left without a chair.That might happen. Then you regroup and build up the rest of the roster and hope to get lucky at QB.
It's not like spending $40M on Derek Carr is going to guarantee us anything. There's a reason the Raiders are willing to dump him for nothing. Don't get me wrong, I want him, but if we end up missing on Carr/Rodgers/Lamar, I don't think that's a death sentence at all for a playoff appearance in 2023.
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2023, 12:32:00 PM
That might happen. Then you regroup and build up the rest of the roster and hope to get lucky at QB.
It's not like spending $40M on Derek Carr is going to guarantee us anything. There's a reason the Raiders are willing to dump him for nothing. Don't get me wrong, I want him, but if we end up missing on Carr/Rodgers/Lamar, I don't think that's a death sentence at all for a playoff appearance in 2023.
Spending $40M on Derek Carr is going to guarantee me spending the summer being happy and optimistic about the Jets. Can I just have that one time please?
Post by: bojanglesman on February 01, 2023, 12:33:47 PM
Post by: Badger on February 01, 2023, 12:37:06 PM
Carr is the average looking wife that is good to you and stays. Rodgers is the supermodel that cheats on you and treats you like excrement, but is freaking glorious while it lasts.Gardner Minshew is the girl who will bang you in a truck stop bathroom and give you VD.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 01, 2023, 12:38:57 PM
Gardner Minshew is the girl who will bang you in a truck stop bathroom and give you VD.This is fact.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 01, 2023, 12:44:11 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 01, 2023, 12:47:27 PM
A shame we can't just grab Kellen Moore and Cooper Rush. Especially since Moore also has familiarity with White as well.Ginger Mike White.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 01, 2023, 12:47:32 PM
A shame we can't just grab Kellen Moore and Cooper Rush. Especially since Moore also has familiarity with White as well.
what
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 01, 2023, 01:06:32 PM
Post by: Coach K on February 01, 2023, 01:28:43 PM
A shame we can't just grab Kellen Moore and Cooper Rush. Especially since Moore also has familiarity with White as well.Ummmmm
Post by: dcm1602 on February 01, 2023, 01:30:54 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 01, 2023, 01:46:08 PM
https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1620829707112517639
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 01, 2023, 01:58:55 PM
Basically said the same thing in preseason.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 01, 2023, 02:44:38 PM
https://twitter.com/MaioccoNBCS/status/1620873249541492736
Basically said the same thing in preseason.
I'd assume this question was asked after it became publicly known that Purdys arm is absolutely fucked?
You do wonder what the 49ers plan is for a backup QB, and if they realistically expect Purdy to make a full recovery.
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2023, 02:58:30 PM
I'd assume this question was asked after it became publicly known that Purdys arm is absolutely fucked?
You do wonder what the 49ers plan is for a backup QB, and if they realistically expect Purdy to make a full recovery.
Shanahan said in his press conference Purdy is expected to be ready for training camp.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 01, 2023, 03:31:29 PM
Shanahan said in his press conference Purdy is expected to be ready for training camp.
I guess it just seems like there's a lot of mixed information out on him. But I'd assume Shanahan probably knows better than all these reporters.
Sounds like the training camp thing is only if he gets a repair instead of Tommy John surgery. Which the reports seem to suggest he hasn't decided on, although it seems like the 49ers anticipate him doing the repair
https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/01/brock-purdy-continues-to-weigh-surgery-options-but-49ers-still-anticipate-a-six-month-recovery/amp/
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 01, 2023, 03:41:04 PM
I guess it just seems like there's a lot of mixed information out on him. But I'd assume Shanahan probably knows better than all these reporters.
Sounds like the training camp thing is only if he gets a repair instead of Tommy John surgery. Which the reports seem to suggest he hasn't decided on, although it seems like the 49ers anticipate him doing the repair
https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/01/brock-purdy-continues-to-weigh-surgery-options-but-49ers-still-anticipate-a-six-month-recovery/amp/
1. JE is about to kill you for using Google AMP links
2. I don't think Tommy John surgery is the most likely outcome
Post by: delavan on February 01, 2023, 03:43:31 PM
- Rogers, very seductive but also with the chance that something comes up, the bottom falls out leading to SOJ
- Carr, just sign him...can't deal with the ho-hum ennui that comes with a Jacoby Brissett vet Jag
- Gardner Minshew's a 'clap' trap backseat tramp alright and has a mustache (to cover up the stretch marks) to boot...
for 2033: Carr, OL, WR, LB, S and P
on the bright side at least the Jets don't have a stupid effin' 'fly eagles fly' type fight song
Post by: dcm1602 on February 01, 2023, 03:47:08 PM
1. JE is about to kill you for using Google AMP links
2. I don't think Tommy John surgery is the most likely outcome
But it allows faster rendering of a mobile page!
(I've attempted to figure out why everything becomes AMP on my phone, and gave up)
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2023, 03:52:38 PM
But it allows faster rendering of a mobile page!
(I've attempted to figure out why everything becomes AMP on my phone, and gave up)
Because you're on a phone, that's literally the point of AMP. Your mobile browser (I presume Android) drives AMP use because Google tells it to.
They need to be stopped.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 01, 2023, 04:07:01 PM
The OS is Android
Do any of you people actually use computers to go on here regularly? (outside of maybe using a work pc)
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2023, 05:22:03 PM
Well the browser is Google Chrome
The OS is Android
Do any of you people actually use computers to go on here regularly? (outside of maybe using a work pc)
95% of my time online is using a PC. Why would I use a phone when I have an infinitely superior device in every meaningful way right next to me?
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 01, 2023, 05:35:54 PM
Post by: Badger on February 01, 2023, 06:00:05 PM
Every time I've been on my PC and picked up my phone to check this forum I've died a little inside.https://youtu.be/8nK6ooyb3ag
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 01, 2023, 06:22:58 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on February 01, 2023, 07:37:59 PM
95% of my time online is using a PC. Why would I use a phone when I have an infinitely superior device in every meaningful way right next to me?
Because humans are lazy and convenience is king
Post by: Johnny English on February 01, 2023, 08:10:17 PM
Because humans are lazy and convenience is king
Yeah, well I'm middle aged and dodgy eyesight increasingly trumps convenience.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 01, 2023, 10:02:47 PM
Yeah, well I'm middle aged and dodgy eyesight increasingly trumps convenience.
You mean you don't do what the old people do and turn the zoom on your phone up to 5000% so you can only fit like 3 apps on your home screen?
Post by: Badger on February 02, 2023, 04:40:15 AM
You mean you don't do what the old people do and turn the zoom on your phone up to 5000% so you can only fit like 3 apps on your home screen?Don't forget brightness level: the sun
Post by: MBGreen on February 02, 2023, 05:22:36 AM
Yeah, well I'm middle aged and dodgy eyesight increasingly trumps convenience.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230202/9545092b239ed64003f68f2ca4f83095.gif)
Post by: MBGreen on February 02, 2023, 11:04:52 AM
Quote
Albert Elrod
@ElrodSSPN
·
15h
Rumor: The #Jets are interested in acquiring #Packers tackle David Bakhtiari alongside QB Aaron Rodgers in a potential trade. Bakhtiari, the 3x #NFL Pro Bowler and All-Pro, would be a big addition for a banged-up New York unit.
This is the same twitter account that called the Hackett hiring 3 days before it happened.
Quote
Albert Elrod
@ElrodSSPN
·
Jan 23
Breaking: The #Jets are attempting to close in on former #Broncos HC and #Packers OC Nathaniel Hackett for their vacant OC job, per source close to the situation. Hackett was the OC in Green Bay when QB Aaron Rodgers won two MVP awards. Would be a huge hire. #NFL
Big Joe got somethin' cookin' in the kitchen?
Post by: dcm1602 on February 02, 2023, 11:39:49 AM
Speculating on Hackett to the Jets was more on the obvious end of the spectrum
Post by: MBGreen on February 02, 2023, 11:47:12 AM
Speculating on Hackett to the Jets was more on the obvious end of the spectrum
No it wasn't
Post by: MBGreen on February 02, 2023, 11:52:05 AM
Post by: Badger on February 02, 2023, 12:11:26 PM
No it wasn'tdcm is on the spectrum and it was obvious to him.
Post by: MBGreen on February 02, 2023, 12:14:53 PM
dcm is on the spectrum and it was obvious to him.
lol
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 02, 2023, 12:31:23 PM
Anyone have Incarcerated Bob's thoughts on the Jets offseason?
Post by: MBGreen on February 02, 2023, 12:37:26 PM
Who the hell is Albert Elrod and what the hell is SSPN?
Anyone have Incarcerated Bob's thoughts on the Jets offseason?
Elrod is dat dude
Post by: dcm1602 on February 02, 2023, 12:50:14 PM
Though I was under the impression that Baker seemed more likely
Post by: Johnny English on February 02, 2023, 12:50:36 PM
Who the hell is Albert Elrod and what the hell is SSPN?
Anyone have Incarcerated Bob's thoughts on the Jets offseason?
The Jets official account follows him, if that means anything. (It may not, I don't really do Twitter.)
Post by: MBGreen on February 02, 2023, 12:50:51 PM
Rumors starting about Mike White going to the Rams
Though I was under the impression that Baker seemed more likely
MLF spreading AIDS on the west coast.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 02, 2023, 12:53:00 PM
Rumors starting about Mike White going to the RamsMakes sense for MLF to bring his guy with him, and White is a good fit there. Not good enough to be a starter, but a solid backup with experience in the system.
Though I was under the impression that Baker seemed more likely
Baker is going to want to try to start, even though it's unlikely.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 02, 2023, 01:03:54 PM
Makes sense for MLF to bring his guy with him, and White is a good fit there. Not good enough to be a starter, but a solid backup with experience in the system.
Baker is going to want to try to start, even though it's unlikely.
Not a lot of places for Baker have a real chance to start.
Unfortunately were one of them
Post by: Badger on February 02, 2023, 01:30:54 PM
Elrod is dat dudeElrod Hubbard
Post by: MBGreen on February 02, 2023, 01:36:13 PM
Elrod Hubbard
Judges would've accepted Elrod Jetson too.
Post by: Johnny English on February 02, 2023, 02:36:39 PM
Elrod Hubbard
The Council Of Elrod
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 02, 2023, 02:54:12 PM
The Council Of Elrod
Nice.
Post by: Gorilla on February 02, 2023, 04:18:00 PM
Rumors starting about Mike White going to the Rams
Those rumors are info equivalent to "Billy likes to drink soda. Miss Lippy's car is green."
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 02, 2023, 04:29:26 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on February 02, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Those rumors are info equivalent to "Billy likes to drink soda. Miss Lippy's car is green."
I mean MLF has a relationship and some success with Mike White. Mike White is a solid backup QB option that's young and won't cost insane money. The Rams is a place to have success and their starting QB is made of glass.
I'd say it's a little more than just derpy derp
Post by: MBGreen on February 02, 2023, 05:17:24 PM
I mean MLF has a relationship and some success with Mike White. Mike White is a solid backup QB option that's young and won't cost insane money. The Rams is a place to have success and their starting QB is made of glass.Mike White's a bum
I'd say it's a little more than just derpy derp
Post by: Heismanberg on February 02, 2023, 05:46:11 PM
their starting QB is made of glass.
and Mike White's not?
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 02, 2023, 06:01:58 PM
Post by: Coach K on February 02, 2023, 08:00:59 PM
and Mike White's not?No slam on him but fans fascination with a guy who simply hit checkdowns just proves how starved we are for real qb play lol
Cocaine Mike ended up being cut with baby powder
Post by: Libero_2 on February 02, 2023, 08:15:58 PM
No slam on him but fans fascination with a guy who simply hit checkdowns just proves how starved we are for real qb play lol
Cocaine Mike ended up being cut with baby powder
And it was still the best hit we've had since 2015
Post by: Coach K on February 02, 2023, 11:25:08 PM
And it was still the best hit we've had since 2015And he's an answer to nothing . I'm alluding to people who think Mike white is a viable answer to trot out as opening day starter . Because that contingency is very real lol
Post by: dcm1602 on February 03, 2023, 06:32:37 AM
And he's an answer to nothing . I'm alluding to people who think Mike white is a viable answer to trot out as opening day starter . Because that contingency is very real lol
I'm definitely not on the White for starter bandwagon
But I very much enjoyed him as a backup.
I mean the guy played better than what I'd expect from our typical Jets starter. How often do you see a fan base more excited when the backup starts
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2023, 07:36:27 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 03, 2023, 07:56:49 AM
Sign Carr and Rodgers. If Carr can convert Rodgers to Jesus, he wins the job. If Rodgers can make Carr think 9/11 was an inside job, he wins.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on February 03, 2023, 07:57:21 AM
Mike White's a bum
Then what is Zach Wilson?
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2023, 07:57:52 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1621346234567909378
Sign Carr and Rodgers. If Carr can covert Rodgers to Jesus, he wins the job. If Rodgers can make Carr think 9/11 was an inside job, he wins.
Bring me one of them, JD.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 03, 2023, 07:58:01 AM
Then what is Zach Wilson?An actual bum. A homeless person.
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2023, 07:58:06 AM
Then what is Zach Wilson?
collateral damage
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2023, 07:59:11 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 03, 2023, 08:09:38 AM
I need to see Zach perform in a different system before i fully write him off.
You'll only see him in preseason this year hopefully
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2023, 08:20:32 AM
You'll only see him in preseason this year hopefully
yeah..he definitely needs to sit. Like i said, they have to start from scratch with him.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 03, 2023, 10:14:01 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1621346234567909378
Sign Carr and Rodgers. If Carr can covert Rodgers to Jesus, he wins the job. If Rodgers can make Carr think 9/11 was an inside job, he wins.
The Raiders haven't let him seek a trade?
Either they're retarded, or is there a possibility that they're going to keep him?
Especially with Brady retiring, and Rodgers not yet declaring his intent to not retire
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2023, 10:17:05 AM
The Raiders haven't let him seek a trade?
Either they're retarded, or is there a possibility that they're going to keep him?
Especially with Brady retiring, and Rodgers not yet declaring his intent to not retire
they're definitely not keeping him...in fact, Carr told the NFLN yesterday that he's done in Vegas.
Post by: Coach K on February 03, 2023, 02:41:50 PM
they're definitely not keeping him...in fact, Carr told the NFLN yesterday that he's done in Vegas.That interview made me want him lololol
It's Rodgers or Carr or bust for me
I'm not waiting around forever for Rodgers to decide if nothing happens by the time Carr is cutting its all in on Carr
Post by: Coach K on February 03, 2023, 02:43:17 PM
Nobody would come here banking theirnjob on wilson and FA leftovers at qb
Post by: insanity on February 03, 2023, 03:13:45 PM
I need to see Zach perform in a different system before i fully write him off. Granted, he's gotta be broken down and built back up, but that's what happens when the offensive staff ignores your development.Unfortunately he'll be in the same system.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 03, 2023, 03:16:29 PM
Unfortunately he'll be in the same system.
It's not the same system
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2023, 04:25:25 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on February 03, 2023, 04:35:49 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1621629334229327874?t=Fe72979bKXxDAh3i39oM6Q&s=19
Agreed to compensation with the Raiders? How interesting
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 03, 2023, 05:12:40 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 03, 2023, 05:59:41 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2023, 06:02:05 PM
I don't know who we get. This offseason will be fun at least.
So far...i hate it
Post by: Johnny English on February 03, 2023, 06:04:15 PM
So far...i hate it
You wanted Lafleur sacked, you got it. Did you not have a plan?
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 03, 2023, 06:18:24 PM
You wanted Lafleur sacked, you got it. Did you not have a plan?I mean, we fired our OC, and he was quickly hired by one of the best offensive minds in the sport. We then hired the biggest laughingstock head coach of the 2021 NFL season. Hard to spin that as a massive win, even though I don't hold Hackett's Broncos experience against him too much.
Post by: Jumbo on February 03, 2023, 06:41:53 PM
I mean, we fired our OC, and he was quickly hired by one of the best offensive minds in the sport. We then hired the biggest laughingstock head coach of the 2021 NFL season. Hard to spin that as a massive win, even though I don't hold Hackett's Broncos experience against him too much.
LaFleur is really bad though. McVay only hired him for nepotism reasons (despite never working with him in his entire career).
Post by: Coach K on February 03, 2023, 06:46:34 PM
I mean, we fired our OC, and he was quickly hired by one of the best offensive minds in the sport. We then hired the biggest laughingstock head coach of the 2021 NFL season. Hard to spin that as a massive win, even though I don't hold Hackett's Broncos experience against him too much.There's a circle of friends and family and they make sure they're never unemployed
Coaching in a nutshell by coaching tree lol
Post by: Johnny English on February 03, 2023, 07:31:54 PM
I mean, we fired our OC, and he was quickly hired by one of the best offensive minds in the sport. We then hired the biggest laughingstock head coach of the 2021 NFL season. Hard to spin that as a massive win, even though I don't hold Hackett's Broncos experience against him too much.
I understand, I'm just pointing out to MB that the offseason he claims to hate so far started out being exactly what he claims to have wanted.
Post by: MBGreen on February 03, 2023, 07:54:55 PM
You wanted Lafleur sacked, you got it. Did you not have a plan?Keeping Lafleur would've made it much worse
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 09:24:45 AM
Dick impressions
Post by: Libero_2 on February 05, 2023, 09:42:07 AM
https://twitter.com/jamiestuartTV/status/1622236980351229952?t=2Ef8-XIrP6nBLTdRqI6Kew&s=19
Dick impressions
Based on timing alone, I’d expect Carr to “be first off the board” and if Rodgers is the guy they want, then they have to wait past Carr being scooped up. So that makes sense.
That said, freak.
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 09:57:24 AM
https://twitter.com/jamiestuartTV/status/1622236980351229952?t=2Ef8-XIrP6nBLTdRqI6Kew&s=19I've been right more than Cimini...and I'm never right (except about MLF)
Dick impressions
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 09:57:53 AM
Based on timing alone, I’d expect Carr to “be first off the board” and if Rodgers is the guy they want, then they have to wait past Carr being scooped up. So that makes sense.It'll be interesting to see where Carr ends up and how that affects the other teams in waiting.
That said, freak.
Post by: Badger on February 05, 2023, 09:58:55 AM
https://twitter.com/jamiestuartTV/status/1622236980351229952?t=2Ef8-XIrP6nBLTdRqI6Kew&s=19Mushroom stamps
Dick impressions
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 10:51:59 AM
It'll be interesting to see where Carr ends up and how that affects the other teams in waiting.
If it isn't here, it'll most likely be in the NFC South.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 11:50:12 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 12:04:10 PM
Jets options based on time(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230205/37b73dc71b81f7930480c0c4e6e8bdd1.jpg)
comparing potential QBs to HVAC air filtration is certainly one way of looking at it.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 12:08:41 PM
comparing potential QBs to HVAC air filtration is certainly one way of looking at it.The filters are time, which is a flat circle.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 12:28:10 PM
If Douglas ends up with Tannehill, Jimmy G, or worse, hopefully it's because we drove the Brinks truck up to Carr and Rodgers and they said no.
If you had to ask me now what my favorite option would be, I'd say going all in with Rodgers. He'd be the best QB of the bunch and maybe we could salvage something from Wilson along the way if he picks up some pointers.
I'm still expecting Brissett because we can't have nice things.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 05, 2023, 12:53:05 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 01:02:41 PM
Everything I've heard from everyone connected with the Jets/NFL is that Carr isn't a great fit with the Jets. I also have questions about how he would handle the NY media and fanbase. I would take him for sure, but I really think we are Rodgers (or Lamar) or bust.
if this is their thinking (and i'm not sure i'm ready to invest in this train of thought, because JD keeps a good lid on his plans), then i believe we're gonna get burned.
Rodgers was already a wildcard before the Raiders joined the pursuit.
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 01:06:41 PM
Quote
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
19m
The #Ravens and QB Lamar Jackson "could possibly be" $100 million apart in contract talks over how much guaranteed money should be in his contract, according to @JFowlerESPN
"Those trade calls are coming." Fowler adds.
Until he signs a contract, i'll never give up hope.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 05, 2023, 01:09:38 PM
Everything I've heard from everyone connected with the Jets/NFL is that Carr isn't a great fit with the Jets. I also have questions about how he would handle the NY media and fanbase. I would take him for sure, but I really think we are Rodgers (or Lamar) or bust.
The fan base/media thing is stupid
He's not some Manziel type coming out of college
He's a 32 year old guy whose been playing in a national sports league for a decade
To me the only thing worth discussing is will he fit in the style of offense we want to run, and will he be over valued
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 01:37:56 PM
That dude just puts NFL in his Twitter handle and people retweet him. He knows zero.
Until he signs a contract, i'll never give up hope.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 05, 2023, 02:02:39 PM
The fan base/media thing is stupidI don't think anything is stupid when we're going to be spending a lot of money on Carr, and our GM and coach will be staking their carers to him.
He's not some Manziel type coming out of college
He's a 32 year old guy whose been playing in a national sports league for a decade
To me the only thing worth discussing is will he fit in the style of offense we want to run, and will he be over valued
I've just heard several people bring it up, and it jives with what I've seen from his personality in Oakland and Vegas. Big, big difference in media from Las Vegas, where they are just happy to have a team, and New York, where the fans and media will be out for blood by Week 3 if we start 0-2.
I have no idea how much truth there is to it, or if it would be a determining factor. But it's a factor Douglas will have to consider.
I've thought for a while we get Rodgers, and I still feel that way.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 05, 2023, 02:04:39 PM
That dude just puts NFL in his Twitter handle and people retweet him. He knows zero.He's an aggregator. He just takes interesting nuggets from actual reporters and compiles and aggregates them. He might not know anything, but I assume Fowler said that somewhere, and he may know something.
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 02:18:26 PM
That dude just puts NFL in his Twitter handle and people retweet him. He knows zero.Mack is right...Dov is just the liason, Fowler is a little more reputable
Post by: dcm1602 on February 05, 2023, 02:30:38 PM
I don't think anything is stupid when we're going to be spending a lot of money on Carr, and our GM and coach will be staking their carers to him.
I've just heard several people bring it up, and it jives with what I've seen from his personality in Oakland and Vegas. Big, big difference in media from Las Vegas, where they are just happy to have a team, and New York, where the fans and media will be out for blood by Week 3 if we start 0-2.
I have no idea how much truth there is to it, or if it would be a determining factor. But it's a factor Douglas will have to consider.
I've thought for a while we get Rodgers, and I still feel that way.
Counter point
We haven't had a QB in an eternity
If we sign Carr and he's the 20th best QB in the league the fan base will be thrilled
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 03:27:32 PM
Mack is right...Dov is just the liason, Fowler is a little more reputableThen they just franchise him and he stays. He might eventually leave, but it won't be this offseason.
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 03:49:39 PM
Then they just franchise him and he stays. He might eventually leave, but it won't be this offseason.He could hold out...which would freak the team. Especially since his backup is also a FA.
If they can't agree on compensation, they'll trade him.
Post by: Libero_2 on February 05, 2023, 04:19:28 PM
He could hold out...which would freak the team. Especially since his backup is also a FA.
If they can't agree on compensation, they'll trade him.
Or they leave him franchised and let him Carson Palmer “rot”
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 04:41:26 PM
Or they leave him franchised and let him Carson Palmer “rot”The Ravens lose in this scenario
Post by: Badger on February 05, 2023, 05:12:31 PM
Everything I've heard from everyone connected with the Jets/NFL is that Carr isn't a great fit with the Jets. I also have questions about how he would handle the NY media and fanbase.
Handle the media by giving the minimum boring answers and walking away. Handle the fanbase by remembering they aren't Raiders fans.
Post by: Badger on February 05, 2023, 05:18:27 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on February 05, 2023, 06:46:06 PM
The Ravens lose in this scenario
Do they? They don’t have to lose their QB and have to find another one. Lamar won’t play chicken for 2 full years of franchise tags. He is likely to cave. If he doesn’t and actually LeVeon Bells it and sits a full year, the Ravens can then trade him next offseason for the same haul, if not more because he’s fully healthy.
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 06:56:44 PM
Do they? They don’t have to lose their QB and have to find another one. Lamar won’t play chicken for 2 full years of franchise tags. He is likely to cave. If he doesn’t and actually LeVeon Bells it and sits a full year, the Ravens can then trade him next offseason for the same haul, if not more because he’s fully healthy.Yeah they do...tough to sell a Lamar no-show to their season ticket holders and fanbase in general.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 07:05:16 PM
I'd be concerned about other teams besides the Raiders.
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 07:15:52 PM
If Rodgers came down to Raiders and Jets, I'd be somewhat confident he'd chose the Jets. The main thing we have against us is the stigma of being the Jets. Otherwise, good defense, OC he's familiar with and likes, good offensive weapons. Raiders have Adams, a bad defense, and Josh McDaniels.Nevada is a tax-free state.
I'd be concerned about other teams besides the Raiders.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 07:20:02 PM
Nevada is a tax-free state.So players actually make that a top consideration? Especially one who has plenty of money already? I'm sure he'd rather win than save on taxes.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 05, 2023, 07:22:44 PM
Nevada is a tax-free state.
I don’t think it’s about money for him anymore
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 07:24:06 PM
I don’t think it’s about money for him anymoreI'd believe him choosing a legal weed state before a tax free one.
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 07:29:06 PM
So players actually make that a top consideration? Especially one who has plenty of money already? I'm sure he'd rather win than save on taxes.It's a huge consideration in all pro sports.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 05, 2023, 07:31:04 PM
It's a huge consideration in all pro sports.Then why does any good player play sign to a team with income taxes?
Post by: Johnny English on February 05, 2023, 07:33:18 PM
So players actually make that a top consideration? Especially one who has plenty of money already? I'm sure he'd rather win than save on taxes.
I don't know about football but in hockey they 100% do. I'm not sure Rodgers will though, I remain convinced that his media ambitions will be a big part of his considerations.
Post by: MBGreen on February 05, 2023, 07:41:37 PM
Then why does any good player play sign to a team with income taxes?There are a myriad of reasons. But when you basically get to pick where you go, and you're elite, tax free states are a consideration.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 05, 2023, 08:49:43 PM
I don't know about football but in hockey they 100% do. I'm not sure Rodgers will though, I remain convinced that his media ambitions will be a big part of his considerations.Same with the NBA and baseball sometimes. Money is always a factor.
And the Raiders aren't bad. Good skill guys. Lost a ton of close games.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 05, 2023, 09:10:43 PM
But there's a 10000% chance that Rodgers would more than make up the difference in advertising money by going to NY
I mean how freaking many commercials did Eli use to get and be sucks.
I'm not saying Rodgers will choose the Jets. Just that the tax factor should be a non issue.
And I'm not convinced Carr gets cut. I've seen some sports guys saying how they think the Raiders could try to set up some back room deal for Carr, and basically park him on the roster until March 15th when they can trade him.
I think that makes a lot of sense, much more than letting your fairly good QB just walk
Post by: dcm1602 on February 06, 2023, 11:45:19 PM
I just saw a slew of stuff saying Rodgers prefers the Raiders and the Raiders are the favorite to land him?
Is there teeth to any of that or all bullshit?
Post by: delavan on February 07, 2023, 01:00:55 AM
https://twitter.com/WFAN660/status/1622667692934045696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Post by: bojanglesman on February 07, 2023, 05:57:13 AM
He doesn't know excrement, but worth considering.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 07, 2023, 06:36:31 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 07:25:38 AM
https://twitter.com/NFLDraftBites/status/1622761147555258373?t=UGF6d6vbHVWb3h8Mt674QQ&s=19
He doesn't know excrement, but worth considering.
I'd love it if Savage was included.
Post by: Coach K on February 07, 2023, 07:44:25 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 07:49:09 AM
Don't care what other contractors needs to get the deal done lol . If we lose out on Rodgers and Carr the playoffs becomes questionable and we will be looking for a new HC and FO lol
We're signing Lamar....don't worry, i got you son.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 07, 2023, 08:06:18 AM
We're signing Lamar....don't worry, i got you son.Get out of Dreamland sonny.
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 08:08:08 AM
Get out of Dreamland sonny.
come on in, the water's fine.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 07, 2023, 08:11:47 AM
come on in, the water's fine.
(https://y.yarn.co/415db8a3-cace-4fa8-aad8-21b327106ab4_text.gif)
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 08:18:37 AM
(https://y.yarn.co/415db8a3-cace-4fa8-aad8-21b327106ab4_text.gif)
Woddy, JD and I will make it happen for you. I promise.
Post by: Libero_2 on February 07, 2023, 08:20:35 AM
https://twitter.com/NFLDraftBites/status/1622761147555258373?t=UGF6d6vbHVWb3h8Mt674QQ&s=19
He doesn't know excrement, but worth considering.
If we take on Savage, Whitehead is out.
That said I still want to find some way to bring in an OT via FA so we could grab a tackle at 13, but don’t need to force it.
Bahktiari, McGlinchey, whoever, just bring me a FA OT
Post by: Heismanberg on February 07, 2023, 08:21:52 AM
I'd love it if Savage was included.
Fred Savage
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 08:28:41 AM
Fred Savage
mole
Post by: delavan on February 07, 2023, 01:30:28 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 01:38:15 PM
Quote
Rob Demovsky
@RobDemovsky
Rodgers said he has not even decided yet whether he’s going to play in 2023.
“That’s why I think it’s going to be important to get through this week and take my isolation retreat and contemplate all things my future.”
He called it a “darkness retreat” for four nights alone.
Post by: Johnny English on February 07, 2023, 01:40:50 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 07, 2023, 01:55:19 PM
the Jets will trade for him tonight and then he'll die on the retreat
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 02:07:49 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 07, 2023, 02:30:40 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 07, 2023, 05:53:54 PM
Carr visiting Saints
Post by: dcm1602 on February 07, 2023, 06:03:50 PM
I'm definitely getting the impression we're going to have nothing to do with going off Carr
Post by: delavan on February 07, 2023, 06:17:27 PM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1623104245615693824?t=017UuXSZY0yYctzM-7iSJw&s=19
Carr visiting Saints
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1623106221850099712?cxt=HHwWgIDQocugt4YtAAAA
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 06:26:20 PM
I mean I guess going to the Saints gives him the best chance at winning his division annually plus its a domeCarr saw the Hackett hire and laughed.
I'm definitely getting the impression we're going to have nothing to do with going off Carr
Post by: Jumbo on February 07, 2023, 06:41:58 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 07:36:07 PM
Post by: Johnny English on February 07, 2023, 07:38:09 PM
https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/news/theres-a-new-favorite-in-rodgers-next-team-odds-and-its-not-packers
Post by: dcm1602 on February 07, 2023, 07:49:56 PM
You do wonder if the Rodgers situation makes this team look at Carr as a more realistic option.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 07, 2023, 07:56:51 PM
The odds of Zach Wilson starting multiple games next season just sky rocketedWhy? Zach isn't starting any games unless we have injuries.
One visit by Carr to a team that can't afford a wet fart and you think we are starting Zach for multiple games? Even I'm not that negative.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 07, 2023, 08:00:17 PM
Why? Zach isn't starting any games unless we have injuries.
One visit by Carr to a team that can't afford a wet fart and you think we are starting Zach for multiple games? Even I'm not that negative.
I'm not thinking we go into the season with Zach as starter.
I just think there's a more than good chance that we don't end up with Carr or Rodgers. Which means either we're looking at Jimmy G (who despite not thinking he's made of glass, I'm not confident in his ability to start 17 games either) or a bunch of guys that I could see playing bad enough to warrant getting benched (as most of them will have done so at some point before)
Of all the guys who are the next best options after those 3, seriously how many of them have never been benched for shitty play?
I don't think Zach starting multiple games is a sure thing by any means. But prior to this week I thought it was very unlikely. Now it's something I can see happening or even expect to happen
Post by: MBGreen on February 07, 2023, 08:02:47 PM
Why? Zach isn't starting any games unless we have injuries.If we sign Jimmy G...Zach playing isn't out of the question
One visit by Carr to a team that can't afford a wet fart and you think we are starting Zach for multiple games? Even I'm not that negative.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 07, 2023, 08:04:03 PM
Why? Zach isn't starting any games unless we have injuries.If we don't get Carr or Rodgers or Lamar, all options are on the table. Wilson can't be Plan A, but there are a lot of teams that need quarterbacks and not that many good QBs available. And if we end up with a Tannehill/Garoppolo/Brissett, Wilson may either beat them out or play in case of an injury.
One visit by Carr to a team that can't afford a wet fart and you think we are starting Zach for multiple games? Even I'm not that negative.
Mediocre vet/Wilson/draft pick could easily be the QB room. And quite frankly, if we aren't getting one of the top QBs, I don't even mind going relatively cheap at QB and continuing to build the roster.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 07, 2023, 08:06:59 PM
BTW I agree we may not get Rodgers or Carr. We'll try like hell, but the player or trading team ultimately decides.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 07, 2023, 08:18:49 PM
Wilson isn't beating out Tannehill or Jimmy G. The only way he plays over them is injury. Did we see the same Zach Wilson last year?
BTW I agree we may not get Rodgers or Carr. We'll try like hell, but the player or trading team ultimately decides.
Everyone agrees that he's not beating out either.
But Tannenhill or Jimmy G, especially with our OL aren't guys I'd expect to stay healthy for 17 games behind our dogshit OL. I'm not suggesting they're going to die and end up on IR. Just both guys don't tend to stay super healthy.
Tannenhill has done a much better job staying healthy recently, but I imagine that playing behind a good OL with one of the best running attacks in the league will do that for you
And yes many of the guys as alternatives (Brissett Mayfield etc) have gotten benched multiple times for atrocious play. It's very possible we sign one of those
Post by: Heismanberg on February 08, 2023, 07:38:18 AM
our OL aren't guys I'd expect to stay healthy for 17 games behind our dogshit OL
You do realize that position groups other than QB can be upgraded too, right?
Post by: Johnny English on February 08, 2023, 07:44:51 AM
You do realize that position groups other than QB can be upgraded too, right?
To be fair to dcm, evidence of the last decade would not support that view.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 08, 2023, 07:50:50 AM
To be fair to dcm
I will never do this
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 08, 2023, 10:40:16 AM
So the charts are saying we suck and we're fucked. Great.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 11:02:06 AM
You do realize that position groups other than QB can be upgraded too, right?
What's an upgrade on dogshit? Dog pee?
I don't think one can reasonably expect our OL to go from horrible to great this offseason. It's hard to not imagine them improving, but one would be foolish to not be concerned about how well we can protect whatever QB we bring in this offseason
How many QB injuries did we have this recent season?
Post by: Heismanberg on February 08, 2023, 12:08:42 PM
How many QB injuries did we have this recent season?
How many offensive line injuries did we have this season?
Zach Wilson rolling out and tearing his meniscus in the open field is not on the offensive line.
Mike White being made of glass doesn't say much.
Post by: Coach K on February 08, 2023, 12:14:00 PM
Looks like the option we will have lol
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2023, 12:20:01 PM
I can totally see why a team would rather trade for him than wait for him to be a free agent. Might be worth a 3rd round pick to not have to fight other teams for him.
I don't see how the Saints could take on that contract without some major restructuring gymnastics to bring down his 2023 cap number. I guess they could send an expensive player in the trade to Oakland to unload cap. Lattimore?
Post by: AlioTheFool on February 08, 2023, 12:40:01 PM
What's an upgrade on dogshit? Dog pee?
I don't think one can reasonably expect our OL to go from horrible to great this offseason. It's hard to not imagine them improving, but one would be foolish to not be concerned about how well we can protect whatever QB we bring in this offseason
How many QB injuries did we have this recent season?
The two things aren't mutually exclusive. A big reason the line sucked was that there were so many injuries. It's not unreasonable to expect significant improvement next year, whether that's guys we already have playing better/more often or getting better players in.
Getting AVT back will be night and day all on his own.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 12:43:01 PM
How many offensive line injuries did we have this season?
Zach Wilson rolling out and tearing his meniscus in the open field is not on the offensive line.
Mike White being made of glass doesn't say much.
Let's keep it simple so I don't get confused
Do you believe it is likely that we will have an OL that is good in pass protection next year?
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 12:44:29 PM
The two things aren't mutually exclusive. A big reason the line sucked was that there were so many injuries. It's not unreasonable to expect significant improvement next year, whether that's guys we already have playing better/more often or getting better players in.
Getting AVT back will be night and day all on his own.
We're still looking at what, finding 3 new starters and hoping that Becton doesn't have a heart attack on the field?
Post by: AlioTheFool on February 08, 2023, 12:51:32 PM
We're still looking at what, finding 3 new starters and hoping that Becton doesn't have a heart attack on the field?
From my perspective, while I think Joe D hasn't done a great job with the QB position, he's been pretty good elsewhere. It's hard to judge his building of the OL because of the injuries, but even after injuries he continued to try to add pieces. I'm willing to give a little blind faith to him for the line this offseason and see what happens.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 01:13:48 PM
From my perspective, while I think Joe D hasn't done a great job with the QB position, he's been pretty good elsewhere. It's hard to judge his building of the OL because of the injuries, but even after injuries he continued to try to add pieces. I'm willing to give a little blind faith to him for the line this offseason and see what happens.
I'm not knocking Joe D for any of the moves he made (outside of his decisions with Zach and Darnold which might be the difference of this team being a legit contender and being fucked ). I appreciate him making the OL a priority.
But the OL has been a constant problem. I don't forsee it not being a problem next year unless we get really freaking lucky in the draft and with Becton
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 08, 2023, 01:21:55 PM
I'm not knocking Joe D for any of the moves he made (outside of his decisions with Zach and Darnold which might be the difference of this team being a legit contender and being fucked ). I appreciate him making the OL a priority.We are entering Douglas' 4th season and we have 1 offensive lineman we can count on entering the year. Making it a priority is fine, but it hasn't worked out yet.
But the OL has been a constant problem. I don't forsee it not being a problem next year unless we get really freaking lucky in the draft and with Becton
That said, we have one Pro Bowl caliber OL on the roster, so that's a good place to start. We are going to be bringing in a lot of new players up front. Next year's OL has a wide range of outcomes. However, depending how we address it, if we bring in the right guys, maybe we can make the OL pretty good. There's also the chance the bottom falls out and it's awful.
Post by: Johnny English on February 08, 2023, 01:48:05 PM
We are entering Douglas' 4th season and we have 1 offensive lineman we can count on entering the year. Making it a priority is fine, but it hasn't worked out yet.
That said, we have one Pro Bowl caliber OL on the roster, so that's a good place to start. We are going to be bringing in a lot of new players up front. Next year's OL has a wide range of outcomes. However, depending how we address it, if we bring in the right guys, maybe we can make the OL pretty good. There's also the chance the bottom falls out and it's awful.
Two Pro Bowl caliber OLs - assuming you were talking about AVT, Tomlinson was a Pro Bowler in 2021 and I'm not of the belief he just suddenly became bad.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 01:51:31 PM
Two Pro Bowl caliber OLs - assuming you were talking about AVT, Tomlinson was a Pro Bowler in 2021 and I'm not of the belief he just suddenly became bad.
Is Tomlinson a sure thing to be back?
He's an expensive dude and has lot of his signing bonus pushed back so we'd get a pretty significant short term hit cutting him
Post by: Johnny English on February 08, 2023, 01:55:12 PM
Is Tomlinson a sure thing to be back?
When it comes to cap savings he's near if not at the top of the list
I don't see the logic of screaming for an overhaul on the OL and then cutting a Pro Bowl OL to save a few bucks. How do you propose replacing him with a quality starter for less than he's currently getting paid?
Post by: Heismanberg on February 08, 2023, 02:09:23 PM
Pro Bowl OL
He's far from that now.
Nate Davis played for Keith Carter in Tennessee and could be a cheaper upgrade.
I don't think we're cutting Laken, but he's replaceable.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 02:40:34 PM
I don't see the logic of screaming for an overhaul on the OL and then cutting a Pro Bowl OL to save a few bucks. How do you propose replacing him with a quality starter for less than he's currently getting paid?
Why does anyone give a excrement about a guy making the probowl
Is Tyler Huntley the solution to our QB problems?
And I'm not suggesting we are going to cut Tomlinson. But he's a guard. It's not unfathomable for us to draft one early and to replace him
And as we've seen the 49ers can make anyone look great
Post by: Heismanberg on February 08, 2023, 02:45:29 PM
And as we've seen the 49ers can make anyone look great
I'm willing to give Tomlinson a pass because of this reasoning. The 49ers players look great because of great coaching.
Hopefully Carter and Hackett put Tomlinson in better spots to perform at a higher level.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on February 08, 2023, 03:35:10 PM
@VinnyBonsignore
@Raiders and @Saints have agreed on compensation element of a trade for Derek Carr. That was always the requirement for any team to get permission to speak with Carr.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 08, 2023, 03:39:29 PM
Two Pro Bowl caliber OLs - assuming you were talking about AVT, Tomlinson was a Pro Bowler in 2021 and I'm not of the belief he just suddenly became bad.He was bad last season. That's more recent and more relevant than him making 1 Pro Bowl in his first 7 seasons as an alternate last season in his contract year.
I think we plug him into a guard spot, but do I have faith in him being any better than a JAG? Not really. He's just another Connor McGovern/George Fant on paper until proven otherwise.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 08, 2023, 03:41:38 PM
Vincent Bonsignore
@VinnyBonsignore
@Raiders and @Saints have agreed on compensation element of a trade for Derek Carr. That was always the requirement for any team to get permission to speak with Carr.
the salary cap isn't real
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 08, 2023, 03:53:33 PM
Post by: Johnny English on February 08, 2023, 04:04:27 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 08, 2023, 04:18:06 PM
#BigGameHunting
Post by: Heismanberg on February 08, 2023, 04:41:14 PM
#BringSamHome
#DieInAFire
Post by: Libero_2 on February 08, 2023, 04:51:50 PM
the salary cap isn't real
Whatever the saints are doing from an accountting perspective either needs to become the norm, or they need to be investigated for whatever illegal (in nfl terms) stuff they are doing to continue to field a roster.
And I again feel highly confident that whatever the saints can pull off, shows me that we wouldn’t have any issue bringing in a Rodgers, dealing with his dead cap hit, and still signing all the studs we drafted the last two years, and hopefully will this year too.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2023, 04:57:40 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 04:59:39 PM
They're in the worst division in football, so they can absolutely make the playoffs. But that teams going to pay for it.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 08, 2023, 05:04:00 PM
But that teams going to pay for it.
but will they extend Carr?
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 05:29:12 PM
but will they extend Carr?
If they do, then it makes absolutely no freaking sense why Carr doesn't just test free agency
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2023, 05:46:07 PM
If they do, then it makes absolutely no freaking sense why Carr doesn't just test free agencyOnly thing I can figure is that he thinks his current contract is better than what he could get in free agency. That is if this trade actually happens and doesn't fizzle away.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 05:52:45 PM
Only thing I can figure is that he thinks his current contract is better than what he could get in free agency. That is if this trade actually happens and doesn't fizzle away.
Sure, but if he's willing to get an extension it doesn't make sense.
If you don't think you can get more than you currently are on the open market, why the freak do you think a team would trade for you and then extend you for more than you're already making anyway
Unless you think Carr wants to get traded, and then extend for less money
Which again makes no sense
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2023, 06:09:56 PM
Sure, but if he's willing to get an extension it doesn't make sense.The Saints may want to extend him to lower his cap number for 2023. Backload it like they always do. They might be willing to give extra money (maybe a lot more) to Carr down the road in guarantees for allowing them to lower the cap hit with an extension. I agree with you though, if he really has a boner for the Saints for whatever reason, just get cut and sign there. I get why the Saints want to do it, so they don't have to fight for him in free agency. I don't understand Carr's motivation. I'll believe a trade when I see it, but maybe there's something we don't know or aren't considering.
If you don't think you can get more than you currently are on the open market, why the freak do you think a team would trade for you and then extend you for more than you're already making anyway
Unless you think Carr wants to get traded, and then extend for less money
Which again makes no sense
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2023, 06:16:05 PM
freak if I know. My gut tells me Tannehill, but maybe Jimmy for the scheme familiarity and to freak with Belichick's head.
Post by: MBGreen on February 08, 2023, 06:23:34 PM
If it comes down to it and you had to choose between Tannehill and Jimmy G, which do you choose?I'd roll with Jimmy G over Tannehill...and pray we get a full season out of Jimmy
freak if I know. My gut tells me Tannehill, but maybe Jimmy for the scheme familiarity and the freak with Belichick head.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 08, 2023, 06:29:38 PM
If it comes down to it and you had to choose between Tannehill and Jimmy G, which do you choose?Whoever is cheaper.
freak if I know. My gut tells me Tannehill, but maybe Jimmy for the scheme familiarity and to freak with Belichick's head.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 06:38:52 PM
Hopefully not in the first, but grabbing a QB in the 2nd or 3rd has to be a serious consideration
Post by: MBGreen on February 08, 2023, 06:41:44 PM
I think once you get into the conversation of Jimmy and and Tannenhill you have to seriously start looking at options in the draft.If it's Jimmy or Tannehill...the plan should be to draft a QB in 2024.
Hopefully not in the first, but grabbing a QB in the 2nd or 3rd has to be a serious consideration
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2023, 06:41:46 PM
I think once you get into the conversation of Jimmy and and Tannenhill you have to seriously start looking at options in the draft.I believe this draft is turds for QBs. Why waste a pick just to say you drafted someone? We already have Zach to develop. We'd still be a lot better with Tannehill or Jimmy at QB than what we had last year, assuming they don't die mid season (big assumption). Just not as good as with Rodgers, but still worth doing since we won 7 games with 3 bags of diarrhea at QB last year.
Hopefully not in the first, but grabbing a QB in the 2nd or 3rd has to be a serious consideration
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 06:59:06 PM
I believe this draft is turds for QBs. Why waste a pick just to say you drafted someone? We already have Zach to develop. We'd still be a lot better with Tannehill or Jimmy at QB than what we had last year, assuming they don't die mid season (big assumption). Just not as good as with Rodgers, but still worth doing since we won 7 games with 3 bags of diarrhea at QB last year.
I don't know nearly enough about this draft class. But presumably when people say that they're talking about the top of the draft.
At some point the value is going to normalize and you would be able to get a middle round talent for a middle round pick
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2023, 08:20:21 PM
Why?
At some point the value is going to normalize and you would be able to get a middle round talent for a middle round pick
We already have a middle round pick we mistakenly took at #2 overall and already have to pay anyway.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 08, 2023, 08:40:20 PM
Why?
We already have a middle round pick we mistakenly took at #2 overall and already have to pay anyway.
I'd trust a 3rd round pick over Zach
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 08, 2023, 09:07:10 PM
Post by: Coach K on February 08, 2023, 10:28:58 PM
Whooo
Post by: dcm1602 on February 09, 2023, 04:42:58 AM
It's just his health, plus the fact that he's been playing for a team that makes everyone look great
Post by: Badger on February 09, 2023, 07:11:55 AM
I'd roll with Jimmy G over Tannehill...and pray we get a full season out of JimmyThis is the way.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 09, 2023, 07:14:16 AM
This is the way.
This is the way.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 09, 2023, 07:23:04 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'd take either one over drafting someone this year.
Post by: Coach K on February 09, 2023, 08:53:01 AM
I don't think Jimmy G is in the turd sandwich vs douche conversationYeah his health is exactly why he's on that level
It's just his health, plus the fact that he's been playing for a team that makes everyone look great
Hes guaranteed to miss 3 to 9 games. It's a mathematical guarantee lol .
I want no part of him and you'll see wilson by week 6 of that's the case
Post by: AlioTheFool on February 09, 2023, 09:32:06 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 09, 2023, 09:51:24 AM
Yeah his health is exactly why he's on that level
Hes guaranteed to miss 3 to 9 games. It's a mathematical guarantee lol .
I want no part of him and you'll see wilson by week 6 of that's the case
Alternatively we could not sign him and just see Zach starting week 1.
Post by: Johnny English on February 09, 2023, 10:09:17 AM
2017 he was healthy and started every game after he won his place
2018 he tore his ACL in week 3 and missed the rest of the season
2019 he started every game
2020 he got a high ankle sprain in week 2, missed two games, came back in week 5 but wasn't properly recovered, reaggravated it week 8 and was shut down rest of the season
2021 he missed two games due to a relatively minor injury
2022 he was fit but missed the first two starts to Lance, was then healthy all season until the broken foot in week 13
So it's not pretty, but two of the three major injuries (ACL and broken foot) are just regular football impact injuries that could happen to anyone. I'd be nervous if we signed him but I'd convince myself that it's not like he has a recurrent weakness that makes injury an inevitability.
Post by: MBGreen on February 09, 2023, 10:46:23 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on February 09, 2023, 10:57:01 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/330267147_866275421096454_4423128875783355727_n.png?stp=dst-png_p206x206&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aee45a&_nc_ohc=xIMbuQxVqJAAX_K5kn_&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&oh=03_AdSRzTCgKXEzmELZvrM7KeyvQLtOzStcVutKb92WeJJx5A&oe=640CA8F1)
Are we throwing in a 4th 1st rounder just so they take him off our hands?
Post by: MBGreen on February 09, 2023, 10:57:36 AM
Are we throwing in a 4th 1st rounder just so they take him off our hands?
whatever it takes
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 09, 2023, 11:04:22 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on February 09, 2023, 11:15:39 AM
Post by: Johnny English on February 09, 2023, 11:19:18 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 09, 2023, 11:26:48 AM
Why are we panicking? Nobody has signed anywhere.Lots of teams need quarterbacks. Probably 10+ teams are going to be looking for new starting quarterbacks. And there aren't that many good QBs available. There need to be contingency plans.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 09, 2023, 11:35:43 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on February 09, 2023, 12:05:15 PM
Lots of teams need quarterbacks. Probably 10+ teams are going to be looking for new starting quarterbacks. And there aren't that many good QBs available. There need to be contingency plans.
There probably are. We're just panicking for nothing at the moment.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 09, 2023, 12:48:54 PM
There probably are. We're just panicking for nothing at the moment.
Nothing is official
But the direction things are trending is pretty obvious
At this point Jimmy G is looking like the most feasible of the best case scenario
And honestly if we got him for a fair price that's not a bad scenario. Carr and Rodgers would make us all feel much better, but those two would have a much more substantial impact on upgrading the rest of the team.
Jimmy G hopefully ends up being the conservative move that doesn't involve major commitment and let's us build around him.
Now the real cause for panic is its starting to feel like Jimmy G is the last strand of hope
A few days ago it seemed like we had multiple options we'd all be happy with. Now it's like Jimmy G or we're going to begin looking at castaways like Tannenhill that absolutely nobody would be excited about
Post by: bojanglesman on February 09, 2023, 12:53:16 PM
Nothing is official
But the direction things are trending is pretty obvious
At this point Jimmy G is looking like the most feasible of the best case scenario
And honestly if we got him for a fair price that's not a bad scenario. Carr and Rodgers would make us all feel much better, but those two would have a much more substantial impact on upgrading the rest of the team.
Jimmy G hopefully ends up being the conservative move that doesn't involve major commitment and let's us build around him.
Now the real cause for panic is its starting to feel like Jimmy G is the last strand of hope
A few days ago it seemed like we had multiple options we'd all be happy with. Now it's like Jimmy G or we're going to begin looking at castaways like Tannenhill that absolutely nobody would be excited about
What makes you feel like we have little shot at Rodgers besides the fact that we are the Jets?
Post by: Heismanberg on February 09, 2023, 12:55:47 PM
Now it's like Jimmy G or we're going to begin looking at castaways like Tannenhill that absolutely nobody would be excited about
How is Jimmy G any different than Ryan Tannehill? They are both injury prone vets.
Tannehill has done significantly more in the NFL actually.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 09, 2023, 01:06:25 PM
How is Jimmy G any different than Ryan Tannehill? They are both injury prone vets.
Tannehill has done significantly more in the NFL actually.
Age
I'd feel much better about rolling with the 31 year old over the guy who will be 35 before the summer
While we're certainly seeing QB's play well into their 40s, you sometimes see some substantial age related drop off before then.
I'd much rather roll the dice on the guy who has more upside and have the hope of stick around longer and offering some stability at the position.
I suppose Tannenhill is a better option if you have any hope in Zach Wilson having some sort of resurgence
Post by: MBGreen on February 09, 2023, 01:08:43 PM
Age
I'd feel much better about rolling with the 31 year old over the guy who will be 35 before the summer
While we're certainly seeing QB's play well into their 40s, you can also see some substantial age related drop off before then.
I'd much rather roll the dice on the guy who has more upside and the hope of stick around longer.
I suppose Tannenhill is a better option if you have any hope in Zach Wilson having some sort of resurgence
Age won't matter in the grand scheme of things. Jimmy G or Tannehill will only be here for 1 season, maybe 2...neither of them are a long term solution.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 09, 2023, 01:10:11 PM
Age won't matter in the grand scheme of things. Jimmy G or Tannehill will only be here for 1 season, maybe 2...neither of them are a long term solution.
Yep, Carr is the only one that could be potentially be a long-term solution (i.e. more than 2 years). Maybe Jimmy G in a miracle scenario that he plays most of the year for 2 years.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 09, 2023, 01:21:53 PM
I find it difficult to imagine him settling for a one year deal as a 31 year old UFA QB that's the best name on the market.
Now you can fairly argue that signing him to a multi-year deal is a bad idea for a number of reasons. But I find it incredibly difficult to imagine Jimmy G ending up going to any team and being there for anything less than 3 years at a minimum purely from a contract standpoint.
Especially since it sounds like he would've been available for the SB so it's not like he's got some crippling injury where teams aren't sure if he would even be healthy for this season and would only be willing to sign him to a 1 year flyer
Post by: MBGreen on February 09, 2023, 01:22:46 PM
Yep, Carr is the only one that could be potentially be a long-term solution (i.e. more than 2 years). Maybe Jimmy G in a miracle scenario that he plays most of the year for 2 years.
My guy Lamar Jackson is a long term solution too. #ItsGoingToHappen
Post by: MBGreen on February 09, 2023, 01:24:09 PM
Assuming that Carr and Rodgers really up being attached to the Saints and Raiders. Jimmy G is going to be the biggest name on the market.
I find it difficult to imagine him settling for a one year deal as a 31 year old UFA QB that's the best name on the market.
Now you can fairly argue that signing him to a multi-year deal is a bad idea for a number of reasons. But I find it incredibly difficult to imagine Jimmy G ending up going to any team and being there for anything less than 3 years at a minimum purely from a contract standpoint.
Especially since it sounds like he would've been available for the SB so it's not like he's got some crippling injury where teams aren't sure if he would even be healthy for this season and would only be willing to sign him to a 1 year flyer
He can sign for a multiyear deal...but Douglas will most certainly put language in the contract to ensure the Jets can cut bait after a year or 2.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 09, 2023, 01:31:49 PM
He can sign for a multiyear deal...but Douglas will most certainly put language in the contract to ensure the Jets can cut bait after a year or 2.
Assuming he has an actual agent, I find it very difficult to imagine him signing a contract where he can get let go after a year or two without making the team bleed. He's a 31 year old top UFA free agent QB on the market
Much more likely is a multi-year deal where a team can cut ties after 2 years taking a major hit or having a more realistic out after year 3.
I don't think he's going to get anything even close to a Cousins type of contract where your franchises future lives and dies by him. But there will be at least a short term commitment, where I imagine it'll be hard to keep him less than 3 years
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 09, 2023, 01:33:00 PM
He can sign for a multiyear deal...but Douglas will most certainly put language in the contract to ensure the Jets can cut bait after a year or 2.There are a lot of teams that need QBs. I'd be impressed if we sign Garoppolo to a deal that doesn't lock us into him for 2+ years.
Hard to know his market after what Purdy did and given Jimmy's injuries. But he's probably one of the best QBs in a market where there are more QB-needy teams than available QBs.
Post by: MBGreen on February 09, 2023, 01:34:18 PM
There are a lot of teams that need QBs. I'd be impressed if we sign Garoppolo to a deal that doesn't lock us into him for 2+ years.
Hard to know his market after what Purdy did and given Jimmy's injuries. But he's probably one of the best QBs in a market where there are more QB-needy teams than available QBs.
His injury history is a major red-flag. If the GM that signs doesn't put language into the contract to protect the team in case of an injury, then he should be fired.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 09, 2023, 01:39:38 PM
This is why I think it's more likely why he ends up in a Tannehill/Ryan/Wentz/Goff type salary range where you maybe see a 4-5 year deal where a team can get out with some bleeding after 2, and have a reasonable escape after 3.
There's absolutely no way a team is going to sign him if they offer him excrement that they can get out of after 1 year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 09, 2023, 01:42:11 PM
Jimmy Gs injury history is why he doesn't end up with a Cousins type contractI agree that Jimmy's injury history can keep his price down a little bit. At least it should.
This is why I think it's more likely why he ends up in a Tannehill/Ryan/Wentz/Goff type salary range where you maybe see a 4-5 year deal where a team can get out with some bleeding after 2, and have a reasonable escape after 3.
That's why part of me is wondering if we just buy low on one of the lesser vets. Is Jimmy that much better than Brissett? He's better, but is he $15M a year better? I don't know what the number would be.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 09, 2023, 01:50:01 PM
I agree that Jimmy's injury history can keep his price down a little bit. At least it should.
That's why part of me is wondering if we just buy low on one of the lesser vets. Is Jimmy that much better than Brissett? He's better, but is he $15M a year better? I don't know what the number would be.
From a value perspective I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that Jimmy G will be the most over valued
But if there's one position you're going to overpay for, to get what you believe is the best guy on the market?
Then assuming we're not talking obscene numbers, ie a Dak diasaster. I think you gotta get the best guy available
Post by: Badger on February 09, 2023, 03:05:03 PM
Why are we panicking? Nobody has signed anywhere.It's not even the 2023 league year yet and the sky is falling.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 09, 2023, 03:10:12 PM
Def not panicking here because I have long thought that we will be lucky to end up with anything resembling a decent QB next year
Post by: Badger on February 09, 2023, 03:13:32 PM
My entire tenure of being a Jets fan has been different stages of panicRemember how happy we were between Draft Day 2022 until the first preseason game?
Def not panicking here because I have long thought that we will be lucky to end up with anything resembling a decent QB next year
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 09, 2023, 04:36:04 PM
Remember how happy we were between Draft Day 2022 until the first preseason game?I mean, outside of arguing about LaFleur every game, we were relatively happy until AVT and Breece got hurt and we started losing.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 09, 2023, 05:09:18 PM
Remember how happy we were between Draft Day 2022 until the first preseason game?
The dark cloud of the 2021 draft looms strong
Post by: Coach K on February 09, 2023, 05:26:11 PM
I want to see Vinny do it . Shatter the oldest qb record lol
Post by: Jumbo on February 09, 2023, 05:43:51 PM
That's why part of me is wondering if we just buy low on one of the lesser vets. Is Jimmy that much better than Brissett? He's better, but is he $15M a year better? I don't know what the number would be.
We definitely should not cheap out on QB unless we absolutely have to.
I'm not really freaking out over Carr yet. For contractual reasons (and future team's assets reasons) it would be relatively shocking if he agreed to a trade at all.
Post by: Badger on February 09, 2023, 05:54:02 PM
I mean, outside of arguing about LaFleur every game, we were relatively happy until AVT and Breece got hurt and we started losing.I recall a good deal of despair after Zach got hurt but we snapped out of it with the Cleveland comeback.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 09, 2023, 05:55:07 PM
I recall a good deal of despair after Zach got hurt but we snapped out of it with the Cleveland comeback.Fair point. From Zach injury through the Chubb TD against the Browns, things were bleak.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 09, 2023, 06:15:17 PM
We definitely should not cheap out on QB unless we absolutely have to.
I'm not really freaking out over Carr yet. For contractual reasons (and future team's assets reasons) it would be relatively shocking if he agreed to a trade at all.
By all accounts hes the person who wants to be traded
And with his connections to the Saints HC it makes a ton of sense
Plus by all accounts nobody else has been reported to be connected to him. I'm yet to see the Jets were even sniffing around him
Post by: delavan on February 10, 2023, 08:33:04 AM
Rogers wasn’t available for comment
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/P1160016_pitch_black.JPG/800px-P1160016_pitch_black.JPG)
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 10, 2023, 02:49:59 PM
Post by: Coach K on February 10, 2023, 07:42:13 PM
Booger is at least someone you hire as a producer knowing he's gonna keep people listening for agreeing or disagreeing because he always takes a definitive stance on whatever he says .
Shaun King is ummmm. Yeah he's a former nfl quarterback so there's that .
Post by: MBGreen on February 11, 2023, 03:49:37 PM
Do the needful, Woddy.
Post by: Laxin on February 11, 2023, 03:54:14 PM
https://www.nfl.com/news/trade-lamar-jackson-ravens-plan-to-tag-and-keep-qb-but-could-be-tempted-by-big-t
Do the needful, Woddy.
I’m sure it’s been discussed… but what’s a reasonable offer for Lamar?
I’m assuming starting point is 3 1sts?
Post by: MBGreen on February 11, 2023, 03:59:09 PM
I’m sure it’s been discussed… but what’s a reasonable offer for Lamar?
I’m assuming starting point is 3 1sts?
reasonable offer: whatever it takes
yes i'm serious, no i'm not high.
Post by: MBGreen on February 11, 2023, 04:01:40 PM
-3 first round picks
-3rd rounder in 2024
-Zach Wilson
-Elijah Moore
Post by: bojanglesman on February 11, 2023, 04:08:26 PM
I’m sure it’s been discussed… but what’s a reasonable offer for Lamar?Acquire a time machine. Go back in time and draft him. He ain't leaving there.
I’m assuming starting point is 3 1sts?
Post by: MBGreen on February 11, 2023, 04:19:49 PM
Acquire a time machine. Go back in time and draft him. He ain't leaving there.
He will if he doesn't get his price. And as of right now, there's quite a gap between the 2 sides.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 11, 2023, 04:40:45 PM
And if they did, why the freak would they send him to another AFC team?
Especially when there's a plethora of NFC teams that are better fits with much more assets to give up
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 11, 2023, 04:46:06 PM
just for fun...my intial offer would be:
-3 first round picks
-3rd rounder in 2024
-Zach Wilson
-Elijah Moore
No way, Jose
Post by: dcm1602 on February 11, 2023, 05:05:01 PM
No way, Jose
Ravens are a win now team and this would put them in QB purgatory
At least trading with the Lions could get them Goff, which honestly would probably make them even more of a contender when you factor in the draft picks and his ability to stay healthy
Post by: MBGreen on February 11, 2023, 05:13:52 PM
It's incredibly unlikely the Ravens are going to trade him
And if they did, why the freak would they send him to another AFC team?
Especially when there's a plethora of NFC teams that are better fits with much more assets to give up
Because Joe Douglas still has alot of connections with the Ravens organization....and he's your daddy.
Post by: MBGreen on February 11, 2023, 05:14:29 PM
No way, Jose
I'd run to the podium with this trade...freak it, i'd probably sprint.
Post by: MBGreen on February 11, 2023, 05:15:41 PM
Ravens are a win now team and this would put them in QB purgatory
Then they should pay their franchise QB....
[insert freak around find out gif here]
Post by: Badger on February 11, 2023, 05:57:59 PM
just for fun...my intial offer would be:Imagining how mad Moore would be about following Zach.
-3 first round picks
-3rd rounder in 2024
-Zach Wilson
-Elijah Moore
Post by: MBGreen on February 11, 2023, 06:09:28 PM
Imagining how mad Moore would be about following Zach.
drama intrigue fuels this league
Post by: bojanglesman on February 11, 2023, 06:27:37 PM
I'd run to the podium with this trade...freak it, i'd probably sprint.And then wake up from the dream.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 11, 2023, 07:07:18 PM
Imagining how mad Moore would be about following Zach.
I don't think Moore would care unless he ends up on the practice squad with him
Post by: MBGreen on February 11, 2023, 07:22:06 PM
And then wake up from the dream.Don't bleeeedat
Post by: Badger on February 11, 2023, 10:10:20 PM
I'd run to the podium with this trade...freak it, i'd probably sprint.
And then wake up from the dream.It would be one of those dreams where you're trying to run but you're not moving anywhere.
Post by: MBGreen on February 12, 2023, 02:14:56 PM
Ger your popcorn ready
Post by: bojanglesman on February 12, 2023, 02:15:35 PM
https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1624863745343094787?t=HdzTb_KNX_doJI_nt9k97g&s=19https://twitter.com/nyjrory/status/1624863995566981125?t=4ERSgAWLzwoNLDLcHyKFng&s=19
Ger your popcorn ready
Lol.
Post by: MBGreen on February 12, 2023, 02:27:47 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjrory/status/1624863995566981125?t=4ERSgAWLzwoNLDLcHyKFng&s=19She has more suitors
Lol.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 12, 2023, 03:13:31 PM
Carr is going to get released.
Hopefully we hear something about Rodgers before Carr is released. If he wants to stay in GB, retire, or whatever doesn't involve the Jets, Carr would be still on the table.
I guess we can display some cursory interest along with the million other teams that want Carr if that happens first. Hopefully Carr doesn't get released and pick a team in a day or 2.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 12, 2023, 03:18:33 PM
And the Jets figure out Monday or Tuesday if Rodgers is gonna happen
If not, they offer Carr the Kirk Cousins special
Post by: bojanglesman on February 12, 2023, 03:20:01 PM
Hopefully this changes the Carr dynamicI don't trust Rodgers to be decisive about anything anytime soon. He's gonna come out of his weird prison cell thing and give some cryptic quotes to Pat McAffee for a few weeks, then end up with some other team.
And the Jets figure out Monday or Tuesday if Rodgers is gonna happen
If not, they offer Carr the Kirk Cousins special
Post by: Heismanberg on February 12, 2023, 03:23:42 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on February 12, 2023, 03:24:40 PM
I don't trust Rodgers to be decisive about anything anytime soon. He's gonna come out of his weird prison cell thing and give some cryptic quotes to Pat McAffee for a few weeks, then end up with some other team.
I wouldn't expect it to happen immediately
But I'd hope the Jets are capable of getting a good feel if they're the favorites or a fallback option
Post by: Heismanberg on February 12, 2023, 03:26:07 PM
Hopefully Carr doesn't get released and pick a team in a day or 2.
He probably has an idea of where wants to play but doesn't want to restructure his contract.
The Jets are the best landing spot for a QB. The only thing we don't have is stability at offensive line. That can be patched up quickly with draft picks and some quality signings.
Carr wants to win so he can prove Las Vegas wrong. He might be a religious weirdo, but he's always been spiteful. He chose Fresno State over LSU because he wanted to prove he could win there...which he did.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 12, 2023, 03:31:23 PM
He probably has an idea of where wants to play but doesn't want to restructure his contract.I'd be fine with Carr or Rodgers. I think Rodgers is better right now, but Carr is a better long term option.
The Jets are the best landing spot for a QB. The only thing we don't have is stability at offensive line. That can be patched up quickly with draft picks and some quality signings.
Carr wants to win so he can prove Las Vegas wrong. He might be a religious weirdo, but he's always been spiteful. He chose Fresno State over LSU because he wanted to prove he could win there...which he did.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 12, 2023, 04:01:50 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 12, 2023, 04:08:33 PM
I would vastly prefer Carr to Rodgers.I think I said it before, Rodgers is the crazy hot chick that's great in the sack but psycho. Carr is the good wife.
Post by: MBGreen on February 12, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
I think I said it before, Rodgers is the crazy hot chick that's great in the sack but psycho. Carr is the good wife.Bleeeedat
Post by: Badger on February 12, 2023, 05:43:14 PM
I don't trust Rodgers to be decisive about anything anytime soon. He's gonna come out of his weird prison cell thing and give some cryptic quotes to Pat McAffee for a few weeks, then end up with some other team.(https://i.imgur.com/BwiuiJg.jpg)
Post by: d sw0rdz on February 13, 2023, 04:55:18 AM
versus
money + substantial draft picks + less service time for rodgers
the choice is clear
Post by: bojanglesman on February 13, 2023, 05:33:44 AM
money only + more serviceable years for carr
versus
money + substantial draft picks + less service time for rodgers
the choice is clear
Which QB is better in 2023?
Post by: MBGreen on February 13, 2023, 06:07:33 AM
Lamar
Which QB is better in 2023?
Post by: loyaljetsfan on February 13, 2023, 07:24:46 AM
https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/1625117840830533633?s=46
Post by: bojanglesman on February 13, 2023, 08:22:35 AM
LamarOf the ones that will be available.
Post by: MBGreen on February 13, 2023, 08:48:40 AM
Of the ones that will be available.
Can't wait for you to show up to the tailgate in your #8 Lamar Jackson jets jersey this year.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 13, 2023, 09:36:32 AM
Can't wait for you to show up to the tailgate in your #8 Lamar Jackson jets jersey this year.Nope, Cotchery until it dry rots.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 13, 2023, 01:28:15 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 14, 2023, 10:07:35 AM
Quote
Gregg Rosenthal
@greggrosenthal
·
34m
The Saints wining and dining Carr before asking him to take a pay cut now looks like a broke franchise move
indeed it does.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 14, 2023, 10:09:33 AM
We can make better cupcakes.
indeed it does.
Post by: MBGreen on February 14, 2023, 10:32:50 AM
We can make better cupcakes.
this is what the Saints deserve
Quote
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
20m
#Saints are a team to watch as a destination for #Rams free agent QB Baker Mayfield, according to @AlbertBreer
Post by: Heismanberg on February 14, 2023, 10:48:16 AM
Russini betrayed us
Post by: Coach K on February 14, 2023, 11:53:29 AM
we did not hire NussmeierLol
Russini betrayed us
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 14, 2023, 12:08:55 PM
Andrew Ryan reporting that Connor Hughes needs to shut his "whore" mouth.
Post by: MBGreen on February 14, 2023, 12:10:55 PM
Connor Hughes reporting that the Jets are "high" on Ryan Tannehill.
Andrew Ryan reporting that Connor Hughes needs to shut his "whore" mouth.
"I concur"
-MBGreen
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 14, 2023, 12:17:46 PM
Post by: mj2sexay on February 14, 2023, 12:20:39 PM
Connor Hughes reporting that the Jets are "high" on Ryan Tannehill.
Andrew Ryan reporting that Connor Hughes needs to shut his "whore" mouth.
As much as I don't want him here, why is Tennessee going to get rid of him again? What's their alternative? Willis looked awful.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 14, 2023, 12:21:38 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 14, 2023, 12:23:29 PM
As much as I don't want him here, why is Tennessee going to get rid of him again? What's their alternative? Willis looked awful.
My presumption has been that they're going to keep him but there's a possibility that they could make a move for any of the other quarterbacks that are available or draft one.
They're a team that should really build towards the future at this point.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 14, 2023, 12:28:14 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 14, 2023, 12:32:14 PM
Not to defend Connor Hughes, but all he's saying is that IF Rodgers and Carr are off the table, don't sleep on Tannehill as an option. He even suggests Tannehill might be behind Jimmy G too, so not exactly him saying we love Tannehill. I don't disagree. Once Rodgers and Carr are gone, I'm fine with Tannehill. I don't like it, but he would be one of the better options left at that point. Of course no one wants us to start gunning for Tannehill right now.
Yeah, the headline was misleading and obviously meant to drive engagement.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 14, 2023, 12:39:08 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 14, 2023, 12:47:53 PM
So Rodgers is starting his 4-day "darkness retreat" on Friday while Carr is getting released at 4pm today, making him immediately available to sign with any team. What could go wrong?Everything...as per Jets fan standard protocol
Post by: bojanglesman on February 14, 2023, 12:49:23 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on February 14, 2023, 12:56:18 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 14, 2023, 01:21:24 PM
If he wants to win, he will sign with the Jets. We have the best roster and we can pay him.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 14, 2023, 01:29:16 PM
Indianapolis seems set on drafting a QB based on Irsay's comments about hiring an offensive coach to develop a young QB
Washington is supposedly moving forward with Sam Howell
Tennessee is the dark horse. They are in a great city, they have a strong defense, and Carr may see an opening in that division with Houston/Indy being down.
Maybe Houston but I don't think Carr will go there after what happened with his brother
Then you have the NFC South...
Tampa Bay has a great supporting cast but does anyone actually want to replace Tom Brady?
Carolina is putting a staff in place to develop a QB
New Orleans low-balled Carr but that doesn't mean they are out of it
Atlanta has some decent pieces and they play in a dome...
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 14, 2023, 01:29:47 PM
I thought Jimmy G was my favorite fallback option because of his experience in our system. But if we're bringing in the Titans guys, and the Titans coordinator is available, then Tannehill makes a lot of sense.
Quite frankly, I don't think Carr is much better than Tannehill, and I think Tannehill will be a lot cheaper.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 14, 2023, 01:32:19 PM
Quite frankly, I don't think Carr is much better than Tannehill, and I think Tannehill will be a lot cheaper.
Carr is underrated at this point. I honestly don't understand the hate he gets.
On pace for 5 straight 4000+ yard passing seasons until LV benched him.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 14, 2023, 01:36:39 PM
Let's look at the other teams in the QB market:The Commanders saying they will roll with Sam Howell has major "Kellen Clemens-Brett Ratliff QB competition" vibes.
Indianapolis seems set on drafting a QB based on Irsay's comments about hiring an offensive coach to develop a young QB
Washington is supposedly moving forward with Sam Howell
Tennessee is the dark horse. They are in a great city, they have a strong defense, and Carr may see an opening in that division with Houston/Indy being down.
Maybe Houston but I don't think Carr will go there after what happened with his brother
Then you have the NFC South...
Tampa Bay has a great supporting cast but does anyone actually want to replace Tom Brady?
Carolina is putting a staff in place to develop a QB
New Orleans low-balled Carr but that doesn't mean they are out of it
Need QB - likely draft
- Texans draft someone
- Colts likely draft someone but could get an FA if they are boxed out in the draft
- Panthers need a QB
Need QB - likely FA
- Jets
- Titans are likely getting a vet
- Raiders are in market for a vet, though not Carr
- Commanders say they will roll with Howell. I'll believe that when I see it.
- Buccaneers need a QB
- Saints need a QB
- Falcons need a QB (Lamar?)
May want insurance
- Cardinals may go after a cheaper vet
- Dolphins may be in the market for a vet QB to be Tua insurance, though they're out of the Tier A guys.
- Rams may draft someone
Probably resign their guys
- Seahawks likely resign Geno
- Ravens are in the market for a vet unless they really like Huntley if Lamar leaves
- Giants probably resign Jones
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 14, 2023, 01:42:13 PM
Carr is underrated at this point. I honestly don't understand the hate he gets.Last 4 years, Tannehill has a better TD rate, a lower Int rate, more yards per attempt and a better completion percentage than Carr. I'm not saying Tannehill is better, but I think it's close.
On pace for 5 straight 4000+ yard passing seasons until LV benched him.
Carr was asked to do more, but Tannehill is an excellent play-action quarterback. If our plan is to be a run-first team with Breece and work off play-action, Tannehill makes a lot of sense. Especially with our coaches.
The biggest knocks on Tannehill are Tannehill's age and injuries this year. But we don't need Tannehill to be our QB for 5 years, and I think age/injuries will be factored into his contract.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 14, 2023, 01:44:37 PM
Last 4 years, Tannehill has a better TD rate, a lower Int rate, more yards per attempt and a better completion percentage than Carr.
Carr's also thrown the ball 535 more times than Tannehill during that stretch
Post by: Heismanberg on February 14, 2023, 01:47:48 PM
Tannehill is an excellent play-action quarterback. If our plan is to be a run-first team with Breece and work off play-action, Tannehill makes a lot of sense. Especially with our coaches.
Calling play-action and blocking play-action are two very different things.
Garoppolo and Tannehill would be fine ...until they get hit enough to miss time. Odds of that happening are pretty likely.
Post by: Badger on February 14, 2023, 01:52:49 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 14, 2023, 02:03:01 PM
One underrated aspect of getting Rodgers and keeping Zach is that the former may get the latter to try mind-altering drugs, which I think would be pretty amusing.
The Mormon Madman
Post by: d sw0rdz on February 14, 2023, 02:36:17 PM
I think Carr will take his time. He's never been a free agent before.
If he wants to win, he will sign with the Jets. We have the best roster and we can pay him.
can you speak with him please?
Post by: Heismanberg on February 14, 2023, 02:43:55 PM
can you speak with him please?
I'll give Ryan Mathews a call.
He still owes me.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 14, 2023, 03:32:11 PM
Post by: Johnny English on February 14, 2023, 03:34:56 PM
The Commanders saying they will roll with Sam Howell has major "Kellen Clemens-Brett Ratliff QB competition" vibes.
Need QB - likely draft
- Texans draft someone
- Colts likely draft someone but could get an FA if they are boxed out in the draft
- Panthers need a QB
Need QB - likely FA
- Jets
- Titans are likely getting a vet
- Raiders are in market for a vet, though not Carr
- Commanders say they will roll with Howell. I'll believe that when I see it.
- Buccaneers need a QB
- Saints need a QB
- Falcons need a QB (Lamar?)
May want insurance
- Cardinals may go after a cheaper vet
- Dolphins may be in the market for a vet QB to be Tua insurance, though they're out of the Tier A guys.
- Rams may draft someone
Probably resign their guys
- Seahawks likely resign Geno
- Ravens are in the market for a vet unless they really like Huntley if Lamar leaves
- Giants probably resign Jones
I don't think Carolina drafts a QB, they drafted Matt Corral last year as a project so unless Reich takes an immediate dislike to him I think they sign a vet.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 14, 2023, 03:41:49 PM
I don't think Carolina drafts a QB, they drafted Matt Corral last year as a project so unless Reich takes an immediate dislike to him I think they sign a vet.
Hell Carolina has been tied to Carr way more than we have
Post by: dcm1602 on February 14, 2023, 03:49:28 PM
Quote
The Athletic's Zack Rosenblatt writes the Jets "view Carr as a significant upgrade over Zach Wilson.".
He adds that the Jets are "hoping" to come away with Carr or Aaron Rodgers this offseason. It seems like Carr is regarded as a fallback plan for the Jets for Rodgers, but this piece from Rosenblatt positions Carr as a clear No. 2 choice for New York. Domino one that would lead the Jets to Carr would be Rodgers re-committing to the Packers, but Carr's free agency will likely put some pressure on the Jets to move sooner rather than later. We'll likely have to wait and see what comes of the Rodgers darkness retreat
https://theathletic.com/4170505/2023/02/10/jets-quarterbacks-tannehill-rodgers-carr-garoppolo/
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 14, 2023, 03:59:21 PM
I don't think Carolina drafts a QB, they drafted Matt Corral last year as a project so unless Reich takes an immediate dislike to him I think they sign a vet.I don't think mid-round QBs stand in the way for any of these teams if better options become available.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 14, 2023, 04:01:13 PM
I don't think Carolina drafts a QB, they drafted Matt Corral last year as a project so unless Reich takes an immediate dislike to him I think they sign a vet.
Reich didn't pick him. He won't stop them from drafting Stroud (who McCown loves).
Post by: bojanglesman on February 14, 2023, 05:31:40 PM
Post by: Johnny English on February 14, 2023, 06:04:02 PM
4: Tannehill
3: Carr
2: Rodgers
1: Garoppolo
Post by: Johnny English on February 14, 2023, 06:05:39 PM
I don't think mid-round QBs stand in the way for any of these teams if better options become available.
I don't know if we've seen enough of Corral to know that the not terribly exciting options in the 2023 draft are better options. The Panthers fan I know thinks Corral has a lot of promise, but he also loves Sam Darnold almost as much as me so view his QB judgement through that lens.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 14, 2023, 06:08:04 PM
I'm not cutting and pasting the article because The Athletic is good and you should stop being a cheap freak and pay for it, but it has the top 4 as:Ewww to Jimmy G.
4: Tannehill
3: Carr
2: Rodgers
1: Garoppolo
Post by: MBGreen on February 14, 2023, 06:21:45 PM
I'm not cutting and pasting the article because The Athletic is good and you should stop being a cheap freak and pay for it, but it has the top 4 as:Gross
4: Tannehill
3: Carr
2: Rodgers
1: Garoppolo
Post by: dcm1602 on February 14, 2023, 07:00:27 PM
I'm not cutting and pasting the article because The Athletic is good and you should stop being a cheap freak and pay for it, but it has the top 4 as:
4: Tannehill
3: Carr
2: Rodgers
1: Garoppolo
Unless it has super secret spy sources and ice cream cones involved.
I don't think any of us should be paying to find out that Jimmy G, Carr, Rodgers, and Tannenhill are the 4 most likely suspects
The only useful information that I needed was hearing that Carr is the 2nd choice
Now as to whether there's any reliable sources to back that up is the only thing worth finding out
Post by: d sw0rdz on February 14, 2023, 09:33:22 PM
Which QB is better in 2023?
i get that but i think with this move i'd like some semblance of longer term stability to be a part of the move
if we go for rodgers we go for rodgers but we may only be able to rely on him for 2 years max, and then in two years we'll be in the same boat again. if we win a SB during that time, great.
however, zach wilson will not be 'ready' by that time. with his flaws being so glaringly deficient, i don't know if he ever will be. we're not going to pick up his 5th year option
i feel a lot more comfortable going with somebody like carr and expecting 4-5 more good years out of him, and with JD continuing to build the team well with solid draft picks along the way
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 14, 2023, 09:42:05 PM
i get that but i think with this move i'd like some semblance of longer term stability to be a part of the moveThat durability and potential longevity is why Carr will get paid a lot.
if we go for rodgers we go for rodgers but we may only be able to rely on him for 2 years max, and then in two years we'll be in the same boat again. if we win a SB during that time, great.
however, zach wilson will not be 'ready' by that time. with his flaws being so glaringly deficient, i don't know if he ever will be. we're not going to pick up his 5th year option
i feel a lot more comfortable going with somebody like carr and expecting 4-5 more good years out of him, and with JD continuing to build the team well with solid draft picks along the way
I'm fine not committing to a QB long-term. I would prefer Carr to Tannehill, but if the goal is to throw a ton of money at Derek Carr, that's putting a ceiling on how good you can be at QB. We already see the Raiders deciding Carr can't get them to where they want to be. If we can get Carr-level play at QB while we search for a long-term answer, I think I'd prefer that option, especially if it's cheaper, which it would be.
I could be dead wrong on the salaries, but I think Tannehill can give us 95% of Carr at 60% of the price and the ability to get out of it sooner.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 14, 2023, 11:42:29 PM
So this happened.
Post by: Libero_2 on February 15, 2023, 05:07:05 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/112j1z5/sauce_deleted_tweet_about_carr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button (https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/112j1z5/sauce_deleted_tweet_about_carr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
So this happened.
I’m sure it means duck all in the end, but I could see Sauce working Carr at the pro bowl and saying he’d give us a look. If the jets are all in on Rodgers, then I don’t expect much push towards Carrs camp right now. They want to wait for this stupid derriere darkness retreat to end sometime early next week
Post by: MBGreen on February 15, 2023, 07:06:59 AM
(https://media.tenor.com/xGoj1Qf_HDUAAAAC/its-time-lets-go.gif)
Post by: delavan on February 15, 2023, 10:35:16 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 15, 2023, 10:37:04 AM
Quote
Jordan Schultz
@Schultz_Report
·
35m
Sources: OC candidates who interviewed with the #Ravens were not given full assurances that Lamar Jackson will be the QB next season.
Baltimore was clear it wants Lamar back, but truly doesn’t know what the off-season holds.
My story, via @theScore
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/wYofc4fyCKCsM/giphy.gif)
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 16, 2023, 09:18:51 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 16, 2023, 09:37:45 AM
Is it really worth giving a excrement when their ceiling with certain QBs is "playoff team that gets smoked in wildcard round"? Rodgers could get you beyond that. I think Carr can, but I don't know. He was on a lot of bad defensive teams, so I don't know if he was limited or his team was holding him back. Carr and Rodgers seems to be able to create plays, the others can make plays when they are there. I know Jimmy G made a Super Bowl, but I think he was a product of a system and we don't have that good of a version of that system. Both Tannehill and Jimmy G scream "I'll get you to the playoffs and then peter out".
Post by: delavan on February 16, 2023, 09:55:26 AM
.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 16, 2023, 10:50:48 AM
I'd be stoked about Rodgers or Carr. I could be be eventually forced into caring about Tannehill or Jimmy G. After that, I'll probably stop caring too much.
Is it really worth giving a excrement when their ceiling with certain QBs is "playoff team that gets smoked in wildcard round"? Rodgers could get you beyond that. I think Carr can, but I don't know. He was on a lot of bad defensive teams, so I don't know if he was limited or his team was holding him back. Carr and Rodgers seems to be able to create plays, the others can make plays when they are there. I know Jimmy G made a Super Bowl, but I think he was a product of a system and we don't have that good of a version of that system. Both Tannehill and Jimmy G scream "I'll get you to the playoffs and then peter out".
I find it hard to imagine anyone getting excited about Tannehill.
Though he may still be able to get us to the playoffs
Post by: bojanglesman on February 16, 2023, 11:28:59 AM
I find it hard to imagine anyone getting excited about Tannehill.
Though he may still be able to get us to the playoffs
If you compare him to what we had last year, he's a significant upgrade. But when even bigger upgrades are available, it's tough to get excited about the consolation prize.
Tannehill and Jimmy G = consolation prize
Post by: loyaljetsfan on February 16, 2023, 11:33:43 AM
If you compare him to what we had last year, he's a significant upgrade. But when even bigger upgrades are available, it's tough to get excited about the consolation prize.
Tannehill and Jimmy G = consolation prize
SBTZ
Post by: bojanglesman on February 16, 2023, 11:34:37 AM
SBTZ
confirmed.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 16, 2023, 11:35:43 AM
If you compare him to what we had last year, he's a significant upgrade. But when even bigger upgrades are available, it's tough to get excited about the consolation prize.
Tannehill and Jimmy G = consolation prize
I think Jimmy G has excitement potential
But I'm also worried about someone who has Shanny magic
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 16, 2023, 12:29:27 PM
LaFleur not doing well means we're stuck hiring retreads who got fired elsewhere to take his spot.
Wilson sucking means we are likely overpaying for a mediocre replacement, or giving up the farm to Aaron Rodgers.
Everything else has gone according to plan, but because QB failed so much, there's a good chance everyone is fired in 11 months.
Post by: MBGreen on February 16, 2023, 12:36:16 PM
It's so shitty that LaFleur and Wilson both busted.You're just realizing this now?
LaFleur not doing well means we're stuck hiring retreads who got fired elsewhere to take his spot.
Wilson sucking means we are likely overpaying for a mediocre replacement, or giving up the farm to Aaron Rodgers.
Everything else has gone according to plan, but because QB failed so much, there's a good chance everyone is fired in 11 months.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 16, 2023, 12:41:26 PM
You're just realizing this now?No, just venting.
Post by: MBGreen on February 16, 2023, 12:43:44 PM
No, just venting.If we don't get Lamar, Rodgers or Carr...it'll be curtains for this regime next January.
I felt this way as soon as we hired Hackett.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 16, 2023, 12:53:22 PM
If we don't get Lamar, Rodgers or Carr...it'll be curtains for this regime next January.
I felt this way as soon as we hired Hackett.
I think it's possible to land Tannehill, make the playoffs and lose the first week and everyone stays despite no deep playoff run.
Post by: MBGreen on February 16, 2023, 01:10:16 PM
@jjones9
·
1h
Per sources, it’s my understanding that the Ravens did not fully integrate QB Lamar Jackson into the hiring process for their new offensive coordinator.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 16, 2023, 01:58:40 PM
Jonathan Jones
@jjones9
·
1h
Per sources, it’s my understanding that the Ravens did not fully integrate QB Lamar Jackson into the hiring process for their new offensive coordinator.
Harbaugh lied
Post by: MBGreen on February 16, 2023, 02:01:40 PM
Harbaugh lied
their "200% commitment" to Lamar dipped to 195%
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 16, 2023, 02:10:03 PM
their "200% commitment" to Lamar dipped to 195%I'm also curious what percentage Lamar was integrated. He wasn't fully integrated. Was he 97.5% integrated? 20% integrated? Inquiring minds want to know.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 16, 2023, 02:15:58 PM
Harbaugh lied
They're probably going to let him pick their next RB coach
Post by: MBGreen on February 16, 2023, 02:26:27 PM
I'm also curious what percentage Lamar was integrated. He wasn't fully integrated. Was he 97.5% integrated? 20% integrated? Inquiring minds want to know.
My take on his level of involvement: He wanted Bieniemy, Harbaugh said freak you.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 17, 2023, 07:32:39 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 17, 2023, 07:49:39 AM
I’ve seen enough. Bring me Ryan Tannehill and Dortch.
Fyp
Post by: bojanglesman on February 17, 2023, 09:08:43 AM
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1626592494539649024?t=J_snOVRPHDZrzgMYyut1GpZvLCKcTWS20yEGQMfGrfk&s=19
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1626355364026359809?t=8n_y8GQhPBnAeb57LIbTKw&s=19
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1626354048256430091?t=aIPa5g9Gtx4AiXJRtYjlsg&s=19
Tanne-time? Didn't expect those numbers, not that they are everything.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 17, 2023, 09:33:19 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 17, 2023, 09:42:33 AM
I'm not sold Tannehill will be an option. He may not leave TEN, maybe restructure and stay there. I know they may want better than the results they've had with him there, but what options do they have this year? Malik Willis? Draft a turd this year?
it's Lamar time.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 17, 2023, 09:44:45 AM
it's Lamar time.
No.
Post by: MBGreen on February 17, 2023, 09:53:50 AM
No.
you'll see
Post by: Heismanberg on February 17, 2023, 10:22:28 AM
I'm not sold Tannehill will be an option. He may not leave TEN, maybe restructure and stay there. I know they may want better than the results they've had with him there, but what options do they have this year? Malik Willis? Draft a turd this year?
Derek Carr is an option for Tennessee
Post by: MBGreen on February 17, 2023, 12:17:00 PM
Mike GarafoloDon't let him leave Florham Park without a signed contract
@MikeGarafolo
The #Jets are bringing in free agent QB Derek Carr for a visit this weekend, sources say. It’ll be the second meeting with a team for Carr, who visited the #Saints prior to his release by the #Raiders.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 17, 2023, 12:18:44 PM
Don't let him leave Florham Park without a signed contractOnly if we run it by Lamar first.
Post by: MBGreen on February 17, 2023, 12:27:04 PM
Only if we run it by Lamar first.
always
Post by: Johnny English on February 17, 2023, 04:44:25 PM
Post by: Johnny English on February 17, 2023, 04:51:41 PM
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-ranking-all-68-starting-quarterbacks-from-the-2022-nfl-season
The ones of interest:
12: Jackson
14: Rodgers
19: Tannehill
20: Garoppolo
21: Brissett
23: Carr
42: White
51: Flacco
59: Wilson
Post by: dcm1602 on February 17, 2023, 06:29:22 PM
Disclaimer: some of the rankings in here are excrement. Anyway.
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-ranking-all-68-starting-quarterbacks-from-the-2022-nfl-season
The ones of interest:
12: Jackson
14: Rodgers
19: Tannehill
20: Garoppolo
21: Brissett
23: Carr
42: White
51: Flacco
59: Wilson
Soon as you see Lawrence on there you realize the Jets would probably be a SB favorite the next 3 years if we didn't win some meaningless games and end up with that freaking fraud
Post by: Johnny English on February 17, 2023, 06:31:42 PM
Soon as you see Lawrence on there you realize the Jets would probably be a SB favorite the next 3 years if we didn't win some meaningless games and end up with that freaking fraud
I think we will be a SB favourite in the next 3 years.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 17, 2023, 06:34:07 PM
I think we will be a SB favourite in the next 3 years.
Way too premature until you see how this QB excrement plays out
Fair chance Rodgers doesn't pick us, and we drag our feet with Carr
Then we end up a serious contender for the last wildcard spot,
If we're lucky
Look at the state of the league
It's essentially whatever team doesnt score a TD on almost every single game loses
Post by: Heismanberg on February 17, 2023, 10:49:19 PM
Post by: Coach K on February 18, 2023, 12:21:48 AM
I think Jimmy G has excitement potentialJimmy G the player has never been the problem
But I'm also worried about someone who has Shanny magic
His ability is there
But the old cliche the most important ability is AVAILABILITY
You'd be lucky to get 9 games out of him
It's Rodgers or Carr or bust . Anyone else basically guarantees a wild card bounce imo .
Rodgers and Carr are 1a and 1b
Rodgers gives this team the highest veiling
Carr we retain capital for the draft and have a qb beyond 2 yrs
I'll take either
Anything else and I won't be remotely excited . STBZ applies to everyone though
Hope Zach has a fire and some humility now .
Post by: Coach K on February 18, 2023, 12:22:44 AM
I’ve seen enough. Bring me Ryan Tannehill.Migjt as well start the HC and GM search then lol
Post by: delavan on February 18, 2023, 06:08:32 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on February 18, 2023, 07:15:35 AM
Jimmy G the player has never been the problem
His ability is there
But the old cliche the most important ability is AVAILABILITY
You'd be lucky to get 9 games out of him
It's Rodgers or Carr or bust . Anyone else basically guarantees a wild card bounce imo .
Rodgers and Carr are 1a and 1b
Rodgers gives this team the highest veiling
Carr we retain capital for the draft and have a qb beyond 2 yrs
I'll take either
Anything else and I won't be remotely excited . STBZ applies to everyone though
Hope Zach has a fire and some humility now .
Even if health is an issue, he only needs to be healthy for the playoffs
The reality is unless the Jets get eltie MVP play odds are were a wildcard team
So it'll be all about peaking at the right time
Post by: Coach K on February 18, 2023, 08:21:58 AM
You say wild card but we may just win 7 games again if Jimmy is here and splitting time with Zach
Jimmy G is the option if we fail on Rodgers and Carr
And personally it would make me lose a lot of interest in next season .
Post by: bojanglesman on February 18, 2023, 08:44:43 AM
loterally
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/26ybwLJnCk2NP9tGo/giphy.gif)
Post by: dcm1602 on February 18, 2023, 08:51:04 AM
Thats a foolish way to get everyone fired . I want no part of Jimmy G. He's loterally made of glass and you'd see wilson in for half the season .
You say wild card but we may just win 7 games again if Jimmy is here and splitting time with Zach
Jimmy G is the option if we fail on Rodgers and Carr
And personally it would make me lose a lot of interest in next season .
Nobody is saying we should pursue Jimmy over Carr and Rodgers
But that if we don't get them, he's next man up with the most upside
And presumably he would be expensive, but still cheap enough that we could invest the most resources to build around him. Use him like Tannenhill in Tennessee and he could probably even stay healthier a bit longer
Post by: bojanglesman on February 19, 2023, 08:58:47 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 19, 2023, 09:02:24 AM
We're gonna miss out on Rodgers and Carr because they don't want to come here, not because we don't throw everything at them. Change my mind.
-Our defense is top 5 caliber
-Garrett Wilson
-Breece Hall
-an owner willing to spend big in FA
-you're not competing, you're coming here as QB1
-Saleh is a players' coach
Post by: dcm1602 on February 19, 2023, 10:16:30 AM
We're gonna miss out on Rodgers and Carr because they don't want to come here, not because we don't throw everything at them. Change my mind.
Well Rodgers contract is essentially set in stone
He may restructure to shift his cap number around, but he's basically going to get the same contract whereever he goes
Carr on the other hand has a lot of wiggle room
And I do think there will genuinely be a bidding war for him. I also believe he has some set of principles and a chip on his shoulder that will lead to him leaving a little money on the table. So Carr 100% will factor into that if you don't throw everything at him conversation. Now you may not necessarily have to be the #1 top bidder, but you're going to have to overpay him.
Especially if we wait for Rodgers to shoot us down and suddenly Carr becomes a desperate bidding war
Post by: bojanglesman on February 19, 2023, 10:38:27 AM
https://youtu.be/wlH4adggLb0
https://youtu.be/BveGMnpi_Rc
Rodgers seemed to have a lot more tipped balls than Carr. Carr had a few that were WR's fault. Both made most of their mistakes getting too aggressive, throwing into double coverage, etc. No risk-it, no biscuit though.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 19, 2023, 01:28:43 PM
-Our defense is top 5 caliberI'm sure telling Aaron Rodgers that he won't be in a QB competition might convince him.
-Garrett Wilson
-Breece Hall
-an owner willing to spend big in FA
-you're not competing, you're coming here as QB1
-Saleh is a players' coach
Post by: MBGreen on February 19, 2023, 01:49:55 PM
I'm sure telling Aaron Rodgers that he won't be in a QB competition might convince him.Wtf are you talking about?
That post was in response to Bo wanting to be convinced.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 19, 2023, 01:52:38 PM
I'm sure telling Aaron Rodgers that he won't be in a QB competition might convince him.
I think top 5 defense is the only thing on that list that'll be somewhat unique (potentially the owner willing to spend big but I'm pretty sure plenty of owners are willing to spend big on QB)
Everything else Is debatable or other teams have comparable assets
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 19, 2023, 01:55:35 PM
Wtf are you talking about?You posted reasons why Rodgers might be convinced to come here, and one of them was "he wouldn't be in a QB competition." That was funny, so I laughed.
That post was in response to Bo wanting to be convinced.
As for the rest of your posts, we are in better shape than most teams looking for QBs, but we aren't far and away better. Washington has a good defense and a good receiving corps. Las Vegas has great weapons and it's a dome. Lots of teams have good infrastructures and are waiting on a QB.
Post by: MBGreen on February 19, 2023, 02:03:27 PM
You posted reasons why Rodgers might be convinced to come here, and one of them was "he wouldn't be in a QB competition." That was funny, so I laughed.I never said we were far and away better. Bo needed reasons why these QBs would come to NY...so I gave them to him.
As for the rest of your posts, we are in better shape than most teams looking for QBs, but we aren't far and away better. Washington has a good defense and a good receiving corps. Las Vegas has great weapons and it's a dome. Lots of teams have good infrastructures and are waiting on a QB.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 19, 2023, 03:24:08 PM
We're gonna miss out on Rodgers and Carr because they don't want to come here, not because we don't throw everything at them. Change my mind.
Can you hold my gun for a second?
Post by: delavan on February 19, 2023, 06:56:31 PM
Quote from: MBGreen
It’s Lamar time.
Quote from: bojanglesman
Noo OL.
Quote from: MBGreen
You’ll see
https://thejetpress.com/posts/ny-jets-trade-lamar-jackson-7-round-2023-nfl-mock-draft/amp
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 19, 2023, 09:12:27 PM
Migjt as well start the HC and GM search then lol
This guy gets it
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 19, 2023, 09:12:41 PM
I think we will be a SB favourite in the next 3 years.
Based on what
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 19, 2023, 09:13:13 PM
We're gonna miss out on Rodgers and Carr because they don't want to come here, not because we don't throw everything at them. Change my mind.
Nah this is correct
Post by: Johnny English on February 19, 2023, 09:48:33 PM
Based on whatBased on if I don't believe it then I have to question why I'm a fan.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 20, 2023, 12:11:07 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 20, 2023, 12:21:38 PM
I do think there will be some other QB options that surprisingly become available.Like who
Post by: delavan on February 20, 2023, 12:22:06 PM
I do think there will be some other QB options that surprisingly become available.In the coming days or come March 15 or come late April in the form of either a draft-related trade offer or JD attempting to trade up for a QB to draft (however unlikely the latter might be)?
Post by: MBGreen on February 20, 2023, 12:24:06 PM
In the coming days or come March 15 or come late April in the form of either a draft-related trade offer or JD attempting to trade up for a QB to draft (however unlikely the latter might be)?I'll turn in my JD fan club card if he trades up for a QB in this draft
Post by: bojanglesman on February 20, 2023, 12:35:48 PM
I'll turn in my JD fan club card if he trades up for a QB in this draftSame.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 20, 2023, 02:39:31 PM
I'm also more open to the draft than most, whether that's someone like Richardson at 13 or trading up for someone else. If we don't get a Carr or a Rodgers or even a Tannehill, it's hard to sell a fanbase on a Mike White or Brissett without a new young QB we can hope on. I think it's more likely that we would make some other flashy additions (Hopkins?) if we miss out on a QB, but I'm fine if we draft someone, too.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 20, 2023, 02:48:03 PM
Maybe the Jets trade something for Purdy.
please stop
Post by: Coach K on February 20, 2023, 02:52:12 PM
Rolling out the Red CARRpet
Joe Oudglas and Saleh hitch a ride on the hot seat
Post by: Johnny English on February 20, 2023, 03:02:18 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 20, 2023, 03:17:08 PM
I don't see any way we draft a receiver in the first when we have Zach on the roster
wat
Post by: Johnny English on February 20, 2023, 03:22:02 PM
wat
Receivers, quarterbacks, they're all the same thing these days aren't they? Except when they're running backs, obviously.
Post by: MBGreen on February 20, 2023, 03:22:26 PM
wat
must be at the pub
Post by: Johnny English on February 20, 2023, 03:23:32 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on February 20, 2023, 03:41:59 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 20, 2023, 05:10:53 PM
Joe Oudglas
ChatGPT is only $20 a month
Post by: Coach K on February 20, 2023, 08:29:45 PM
ChatGPT is only $20 a monthLol
I will not he supporting SkyNet
Post by: Badger on February 21, 2023, 12:18:37 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 21, 2023, 12:24:21 PM
WFAN is really pumping the tires on "Daniel Jones to the Jets," apropos of nothing.Gross
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 21, 2023, 12:58:42 PM
WFAN is really pumping the tires on "Daniel Jones to the Jets," apropos of nothing.
Some of sports media survives by being the farthest out on the thinest branch. This seems like WFAN’s standard MO.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on February 21, 2023, 01:09:30 PM
Post by: Coach K on February 21, 2023, 02:05:32 PM
Post by: Johnny English on February 21, 2023, 02:18:08 PM
Vegas has Jets as favorite to land Carr at -300
Hardly a surprise given we're the only team he's visited as a free agent and Rodgers is still busy communing with his chakra. I wouldn't read anything into it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 21, 2023, 02:20:47 PM
And places you can bet on it have very small limits and are purely guessing based on news. If Carr visits someone else tomorrow, they will jump in the odds.
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2023, 02:55:16 PM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1630670534869393408?t=XfgU_CsgaLtI4WHcaioQ2g&s=19
Post by: Johnny English on February 28, 2023, 04:14:22 PM
No Tannehill
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1630670534869393408?t=XfgU_CsgaLtI4WHcaioQ2g&s=19
That's OK, Marcus Mariota is available now instead.
https://twitter.com/AtlantaFalcons/status/1630583106619994112
No, me neither.
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2023, 05:42:00 PM
That's OK, Marcus Mariota is available now instead.You'll enjoy being reminded there were many Jets fans who were mad the team didn't tank for him before the 2015 draft.
https://twitter.com/AtlantaFalcons/status/1630583106619994112
No, me neither.
Post by: Badger on March 06, 2023, 10:12:00 AM
Jimmy Garoppolo
- Pros: Handsome, Italian
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230306/510b0038291ddbf036c06bbff1270f66.jpg)
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2023, 10:13:30 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 06, 2023, 10:40:32 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 10:42:30 AM
That's OK, Marcus Mariota is available now instead.
https://twitter.com/AtlantaFalcons/status/1630583106619994112
No, me neither.
here's the jinx that's going to freak up our 2023 season.
Post by: Coach K on March 06, 2023, 10:59:15 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2023, 12:30:19 PM
If Rodgers gets traded to us for less than a 1st that'd be fantastic I just don't see it
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 12:32:47 PM
Team friendly contract with Jimmy G is the most realistic scenario I'd be happy with at this point.
If Rodgers gets traded to us for less than a 1st that'd be fantastic I just don't see it
if Jimmy G is anywhere near this team in any capacity in 2023....there will be a new regime in 2024 (maybe JD survives), and we'll be back to square one regarding the QB position.
Post by: Coach K on March 06, 2023, 12:36:13 PM
if Jimmy G is anywhere near this team in any capacity in 2023....there will be a new regime in 2024 (maybe JD survives), and we'll be back to square one regarding the QB position.This
Jimmy g is a absolute failure by everybody measure
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 12:40:00 PM
This
Jimmy g is a absolute failure by everybody measure
it's not even a one-off injury with this guy...he gets injured all the time. freak him.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2023, 12:43:22 PM
Rodgers can play anywhere he wants, and his contract isn't going to change much so it's not like we can woe him in free agency. He is very much in play, I just think he's far from a slam dunk. I'd imagine something like back to the Packers > Oakland > jets overpay pick wise > jets get Rodgers for a good deal is how I'd rank his odds of playing out
And Lamar is by all accounts not on the trade market.
So unless you both think Brissett or Baker is an exponentially better option than Jimmy G. You might need to set some more realistic expectations.
If we give Jimmy G the same contract as Carr I think that's an L. But if his market is as cool as it seams and him and Saleh have some kind of bromance. Maybe we can get him here in a low risk moderately high reward scenario. And to me that's the best realistic scenario.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2023, 12:47:23 PM
But I don't know how plausible that is.
I suppose the biggest thing would be if Oakland lands Rodgers and that cripples Jimmy's marker, we might be able to get a bargain
Post by: Badger on March 06, 2023, 12:50:48 PM
ThisHe's gonna be healthy here, fueled by NYC area gabagool.
Jimmy g is a absolute failure by everybody measure
Post by: Coach K on March 06, 2023, 12:53:43 PM
There's nothing exciting about Jimmy G under any freaking vircumstance.
You're jerking off to frugality and mediocrity.
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 12:54:04 PM
I don't know what scenario you two are seeing that doesn't depend heavily on unrealistic outside factors that's a much more attractive option.
Rodgers can play anywhere he wants, and his contract isn't going to change much so it's not like we can woe him in free agency. He is very much in play, I just think he's far from a slam dunk. I'd imagine something like back to the Packers > Oakland > jets overpay pick wise > jets get Rodgers for a good deal is how I'd rank his odds of playing out
And Lamar is by all accounts not on the trade market.
So unless you both think Brissett or Baker is an exponentially better option than Jimmy G. You might need to set some more realistic expectations.
If we give Jimmy G the same contract as Carr I think that's an L. But if his market is as cool as it seams and him and Saleh have some kind of bromance. Maybe we can get him here in a low risk moderately high reward scenario. And to me that's the best realistic scenario.
I think it's hilarious that you're so determined to bring Jimmy G here....but if Lamar takes off and runs from the pocket, you start to cry.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2023, 12:56:15 PM
So having a boom or bust signing like Jimmy G is beneficial.
If Jimmy G is healthy and good then fantastic we got a 31 year old talented QB on a team friendly deal.
If Jimmy G ends up in a wheelchair, then we get out of that contract fairly pain free. And either Zach looks anything like an actual QB, or we end up with a prime pick to draft the next abject diasaster
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2023, 12:57:43 PM
I think it's hilarious that you're so determined to bring Jimmy G here....but if Lamar takes off and runs from the pocket, you start to cry.
I think it's hilarious that your hopes and dreams rely on the Jets trading for a teams franchise QB that's not even on the freaking trade market.
I might as well just spam every thread talking about how much more competitive we'll be if we trade for Jalen Hurts
Arguing about compensation or Jackson's running/passing/health is all freaking pointless. Because he's not on the trade market. So i will concede that me arguing any of the other factors with you I'd freaking stupid, because he's simply not available.
So how about we all do this board a favor and stop masturbating to Lamar, until there's solid verifiable Intel suggesting that the Ravens are shopping him and the Jets are willing to get involved in those discussions
Seem reasonable enough?
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 01:01:13 PM
He's gonna be healthy here, fueled by NYC area gabagool.
he'll break his wrist signing the contract offer.
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 01:02:16 PM
I think it's hilarious that your hopes and dreams rely on the Jets trading for a teams franchise QB that's not even on the freaking trade market.
I might as well just spam every thread talking about how much more competitive we'll be if we trade for Jalen Hurts
Arguing about compensation or Jackson's running/passing/health is all freaking pointless. Because he's not on the trade market. So i will concede that me arguing any of the other factors with you I'd freaking stupid, because he's simply not available.
So how about we all do this board a favor and stop masturbating to Lamar, until there's solid verifiable Intel suggesting that the Ravens are shopping him and the Jets are willing to get involved in those discussions
Seem reasonable enough?
Remember when you called me dense? this post is why that was funny and ironic.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2023, 01:02:27 PM
DCM you're wasting your time typing NY Times articles
There's nothing exciting about Jimmy G under any freaking vircumstance.
You're jerking off to frugality and mediocrity.
Okay cool.
So tell me about literally any other option that doesn't involve frugality or mediocrity in the scenario where Rodgers doesn't want to come here and Lamar isn't on the trade block (which he's not. Sorry I don't have a new york times article to support this)
It's okay if you use NYT articles
Post by: Badger on March 06, 2023, 01:03:37 PM
So how about we all do this board a favor and stop masturbating to Lamar,
MB:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230306/2089ed9fd4daf9a113fb1ad097f15874.jpg)
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 01:05:49 PM
MB:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230306/2089ed9fd4daf9a113fb1ad097f15874.jpg)
I'm gonna squirt a massive load onto dcm's face right after we trade for Lamar
Post by: Coach K on March 06, 2023, 01:54:31 PM
Okay cool.My point was it was Rodgers or Carr or bust from the beginning
So tell me about literally any other option that doesn't involve frugality or mediocrity in the scenario where Rodgers doesn't want to come here and Lamar isn't on the trade block (which he's not. Sorry I don't have a new york times article to support this)
It's okay if you use NYT articles
You trying to spin anything else into a positive is boring because it's basically a dead useless year likely resulting in yet another regime change
- Source Coach K Chornicles Sun Times Daily
Post by: Coach K on March 06, 2023, 01:59:31 PM
I'm usually a sunshiner once our moves are made but I refuse to polish a turd again a la faith in Wilson or that cripple Jimmy G. JIMMY Stewart is likely to play as many games this yr
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 02:03:20 PM
Yes I'm fully aware I sound like a SOJF from TGG on this one
I'm usually a sunshiner once our moves are made but I refuse to polish a turd again a la faith in Wilson or that cripple Jimmy G. JIMMY Stewart is likely to play as many games this yr
If we lose out on Rodgers and Lamar, this absolutely gets turned into an SOJF fest. And deservedly so.
Post by: Coach K on March 06, 2023, 02:07:03 PM
If we lose out on Rodgers and Lamar, this absolutely gets turned into an SOJF fest. And deservedly so.Yeah I'd just pray Lamar getd tbe transition Tag and not the exclusive lol
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 06, 2023, 02:12:46 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on March 06, 2023, 02:32:18 PM
My point was it was Rodgers or Carr or bust from the beginning
You trying to spin anything else into a positive is boring because it's basically a dead useless year likely resulting in yet another regime change
- Source Coach K Chornicles Sun Times Daily
Sunshining?
I'm literally saying where do we go from here
Is the plan to shut down the board and turn off the TV if the Jets don't get Rodgers?
Right now anything is better than Zach
Post by: Coach K on March 06, 2023, 02:45:11 PM
Sunshining?And I've said yes anything is an upgrade
I'm literally saying where do we go from here
Is the plan to shut down the board and turn off the TV if the Jets don't get Rodgers?
Right now anything is better than Zach
You'll get plenty more of Zach next year when you sign Jimmy G though
My ultimate point lol
I'd prefer we sign both brisset and minshew for the price of Jimmy G and make sure zach gets the redshirt year he's 2 years late on
But yeah it will be torture to pay the nfl to watch that team with any real enthusiasm beyond battling for 2nd place in the afc and another maybe 8 wins
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 03:14:41 PM
Quote
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
15m
Retired NFL QB Philip Rivers has expressed desire to return to the NFL.
He already contacted the #49ers and #Dolphins about coming out of retirement late in the 2022 season, according to @richeisen
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 03:17:01 PM
Nothing but positive vibes for you guys.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2023, 03:18:04 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 03:18:46 PM
If we land Rodgers, will you stop posting tweets from a list of accounts that I provide?
I'm open for negotiations
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2023, 03:20:59 PM
I'm open for negotiations
BoyGreen
Dov Kleiman
Paulie Bruz
Justin Gray
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 03:21:55 PM
BoyGreen
Dov Kleiman
Paulie Bruz
Justin Gray
I don't follow any of these chumps.
However, if you bring me Lamar Jackson, I'll shutdown my twitter account.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2023, 03:22:54 PM
I don't follow any of these chumps.
Yet you just posted a Tweet here from Dov.
Also, add UStadium and Nick Spano to the list.
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 03:24:57 PM
Yet you just posted a Tweet here from Dov.
Also, add UStadium and Nick Spano to the list.
I could explain the twitter algorithm to you, but i'll just give you the Coles Notes version.
They show up in my timeline because i follow my fair share of NFL and NY Jets related content.
and then i share some of these tweets with you, because i know they fill your life with joy.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2023, 03:25:37 PM
I could explain the twitter algorithm to you, but i'll just give you the Coles Notes version.
They show up in my timeline because i follow my fair share of NFL and NY Jets related content.
You can mute them, grandpa.
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 03:26:25 PM
Thanks.
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 03:27:02 PM
You can mute them, grandpa.
But annoying you gives me the tingles.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2023, 03:29:50 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 03:30:41 PM
Fair enough.
Bring me a QB, blu
Post by: MBGreen on March 06, 2023, 04:23:11 PM
@jamisonhensley
·
1h
Ravens say talks with Lamar Jackson to go to Tuesday’s franchise tag deadline
Post by: Coach K on March 06, 2023, 04:32:25 PM
Jamison HensleyTransition Tag hopefully
@jamisonhensley
·
1h
Ravens say talks with Lamar Jackson to go to Tuesday’s franchise tag deadline
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 06, 2023, 05:03:10 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 06, 2023, 05:14:38 PM
Geno off the market, not that we were getting him.
Sounds like Daniel Jones might be next
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2023, 12:15:36 PM
https://twitter.com/jacksettleman/status/1633127181462249472
Post by: Heismanberg on March 07, 2023, 12:16:44 PM
Just for MB:
https://twitter.com/jacksettleman/status/1633127181462249472
Chicago...?
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2023, 12:18:18 PM
Chicago...?
Maybe Baltimore would do a trade involving Fields going the other way.
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 12:41:25 PM
Just for MB:
https://twitter.com/jacksettleman/status/1633127181462249472
;)
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 01:22:57 PM
Quote
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
24m
Report: The #Falcons have “very real” interest in trading for #Ravens QB Lamar Jackson, a source told @MattLombardoNFL
“The Lamar Jackson conversation between the Ravens and Falcons progressed tremendously in Indianapolis,”
Post by: Badger on March 07, 2023, 02:19:54 PM
https://twitter.com/diannaESPN/status/1633200049009176577?t=v-OTuXCg3IglS4U98nb7MA&s=19
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 02:21:36 PM
Falcons out on Lamar
https://twitter.com/diannaESPN/status/1633200049009176577?t=v-OTuXCg3IglS4U98nb7MA&s=19
(https://c.tenor.com/IiJix5gQAWEAAAAM/wwe-triple-h.gif)
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 02:32:12 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 07, 2023, 02:36:20 PM
Falcons out on LamarThat's honestly pretty shocking.
https://twitter.com/diannaESPN/status/1633200049009176577?t=v-OTuXCg3IglS4U98nb7MA&s=19
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 07, 2023, 03:02:27 PM
Curious how much Jones gets. I think he should get more than Carr.
Post by: reuben on March 07, 2023, 03:14:10 PM
https://twitter.com/ByKimberleyA/status/1633196094409650181 (https://twitter.com/ByKimberleyA/status/1633196094409650181)
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 03:25:52 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2023, 03:31:11 PM
if Miami lands Lamar Jackson, i will be a little perturbed.
They are currently $24M over the cap with 44 players under contract.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 07, 2023, 03:31:47 PM
if Miami lands Lamar Jackson, i will be a little perturbed.
They can't. They don't have a first in this year's draft. Rams can't either.
Post by: Badger on March 07, 2023, 03:34:47 PM
They can't. They don't have a first in this year's draft. Rams can't either.They can't until after the draft.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 07, 2023, 03:36:21 PM
They can't until after the draft.
I don't think Atlanta's out
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 03:47:59 PM
I don't think Atlanta's out
Someone caught Arthur Smith dusting off his klan hood. I think they're out.
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 03:49:19 PM
Non-exclusive for Lamar
https://twitter.com/ByKimberleyA/status/1633196094409650181 (https://twitter.com/ByKimberleyA/status/1633196094409650181)
if Rodgers fucks us over....i think Baltimore is on the way back to Jersey. A change in flight pattern for Woody Force One.
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 04:03:34 PM
Quote
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
23m
Update: The #Panthers are not expected to pursue #Ravens QB Lamar Jackson, sources told @josephperson
The #Raiders are also unlikely, according to @VinnyBonsignore
We already know the #Falcons aren't on him either, per @diannaESPN
somebody is lying
Post by: Libero_2 on March 07, 2023, 04:18:22 PM
somebody is lying
So nobody is in on Jackson? That would be a hilarious outcome.
Imagine him going back to Baltimore, tail between his legs and he has to sign for $35 million a year.
I wonder if nobody wants him period, or nobody wants whatever the freak Lamar is asking for.
Post by: Badger on March 07, 2023, 04:25:27 PM
So nobody is in on Jackson? That would be a hilarious outcome.You'd hear the word collusion thrown around a lot if that actually happened.
Imagine him going back to Baltimore, tail between his legs and he has to sign for $35 million a year.
I wonder if nobody wants him period, or nobody wants whatever the freak Lamar is asking for.
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2023, 04:32:54 PM
You'd hear the word collusion thrown around a lot if that actually happened.
Is it collusion, or is it that the only people who think that Lamar is worth what he's asking for are Lamar Jackson and a bloke in Winnipeg?
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 07, 2023, 04:33:49 PM
Is it collusion, or is it that the only people who think that Lamar is worth what he's asking for are Lamar Jackson and a bloke in Winnipeg?This.
Perhaps nobody wants to give him a fully guaranteed long-term deal. That's just as likely
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 04:34:48 PM
Is it collusion, or is it that the only people who think that Lamar is worth what he's asking for are Lamar Jackson and a bloke in Winnipeg?
We wouldn't be in this mess to begin with if you knew how important it was to tank sometimes
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 04:35:12 PM
This.
Perhaps nobody wants to give him a fully guaranteed long-term deal. That's just as likely
This....actually makes sense.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 07, 2023, 04:43:43 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 04:48:55 PM
You can thank Jimmy Haslam and the Cleveland Browns for this mess
that Watson deal was a one-off freak up...it's not going to set a precedent, which Lamar is finding out the hard way.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 07, 2023, 04:59:46 PM
that Watson deal was a one-off freak up...it's not going to set a precedent, which Lamar is finding out the hard way.But he doesn't have an agent to tell him that.
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 05:00:36 PM
But he doesn't have an agent to tell him that.
yeah, i brought this up in our mod chat a few seconds ago. He may finally relent and hire one. He's in over his head now.
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2023, 05:06:38 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 05:08:41 PM
It's funny watching a bunch of other NFL players, current and former, coming out and saying that Lamar is getting disrespected because he's black, conveniently ignoring the fact that part of the reason no one wants any part of his demands is because a black quarterback was able to get a ridiculous deal that he can't possibly play up to and now Lamar wants someone to give him the same.
if you were in his shoes, you would've done the same. He's better than Watson.
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2023, 05:21:40 PM
if you were in his shoes, you would've done the same. He's better than Watson.
I feel like you missed the point there.
Post by: Badger on March 07, 2023, 05:30:41 PM
Is it collusion, or is it that the only people who think that Lamar is worth what he's asking for are Lamar Jackson and a bloke in Winnipeg?
This.To be clear I don't think him getting less than what he wants is evidence of collusion. But if he's not landing the biggest QB contract of this off-season then something is wrong (barring him actually playing on the tag).
Perhaps nobody wants to give him a fully guaranteed long-term deal. That's just as likely
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2023, 05:36:32 PM
To be clear I don't think him getting less than what he wants is evidence of collusion. But if he's not landing the biggest QB contract of this off-season then something is wrong (barring him actually playing on the tag).
The Ravens already offered him $250M with $175M guaranteed, so nothing is wrong. He's already landing the biggest QB contract of the offseason, he's just overvaluing himself.
Post by: Badger on March 07, 2023, 05:40:00 PM
The Ravens already offered him $250M with $175M guaranteed, so nothing is wrong. He's already landing the biggest QB contract of the offseason, he's just overvaluing himself.
If no other team makes a competitive offer... it would look like the rest of the league agreed to back off.
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 07, 2023, 05:41:35 PM
Post by: Johnny English on March 07, 2023, 05:47:51 PM
If no other team makes a competitive offer... it would look like the rest of the league agreed to back off.
It would look like no team wanted to give up two first round picks plus a bigger contract than the monster he already turned down for a player that isn't worth it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 07, 2023, 05:53:35 PM
It would look like no team wanted to give up two first round picks plus a bigger contract than the monster he already turned down for a player that isn't worth it.I agree. It could be tampering, but it also could just be franchises not wanting to give fully guaranteed deals.
Especially after some of the biggest contracts from last offseason have looked awful so far (Watson, Wilson).
Post by: casman02 on March 07, 2023, 06:15:26 PM
Quote
Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
ok, let's see here
so Kyler Murray gets $230,500,000 with $189,500,000 guaranteed after proving nothing & going 22-23-1 as a starter
and Aaron Rodgers gets $50,271,667 a year with $150M guaranteed at 38-years old
and DeShaun Watson gets $230,000,000 guaranteed after over 20 lawsuits were filed against him for sexual misconduct and he sat out a full season
and you're telling me there are half-a-dozen teams…
most of which have been TERRIBLE for years
posted TERRIBLE records last year
had to cycle through 2-3 quarterbacks because they HAVE NO ELITE OPTIONS and
HAVE NO FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK ON THE ROSTER
…can decide in less than an hour that they don't want:
a 26-year old quarterback IN HIS PRIME
who won the MVP
whose team spent the #1 LEAST ON OFFENSE of any team in the NFL the last 4 years
whose team gave him the #2 CHEAPEST WR corps to work with
whose RB-rooms were decimated by injury two straight years
who had to do virtually EVERYTHING FOR HIS TEAM to will them to win
who is 46-19 as a starter
who STILL took his team, in the toughest conference in football, to:
#3 AFC seed in 2022 at 8-4 before injury
#3 AFC seed in 2021 at 8-3 before injury
#5 AFC seed in 2020 at 11-5
#1 AFC seed in 2019 at 14-2
But you have no interest in talking to him?
you have no interest in negotiating directly with him?
you have no interest in proposing a deal to see what happens?
and you decided all of that within 60 minutes of the Ravens giving him the non-exclusive franchise tag
because you have such a buttoned-up organization that is always forward thinking and ahead of the curve that you knew instantly that trying to sign Lamar Jackson wouldn’t possibly give you more future upside than the flawless course you’ve plotted for your franchise?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
smells like some bullshit to me
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 07, 2023, 06:30:42 PM
I'm on team Lamar or A Rod. If things go south with Rodgers, I just want hope
You're hope is that you will eventually die and this will no longer matter.
#justjetsfanthings
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 07, 2023, 08:50:50 PM
You're hope is that you will eventually die and this will no longer matter.My version of hope is hoping that one of these QBs in the draft turns into something if we take them. I am not sold on any of them but I also think we should take a shot anyway if we don't get Rodgers.
#justjetsfanthings
Post by: Coach K on March 07, 2023, 08:55:11 PM
My version of hope is hoping that one of these QBs in the draft turns into something if we take them. I am not sold on any of them but I also think we should take a shot anyway if we don't get Rodgers.None of them are falling to 13
You'll take Duggan in rd 3 or 4 and like it
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 07, 2023, 08:59:57 PM
Post by: Coach K on March 07, 2023, 09:00:46 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 07, 2023, 09:01:28 PM
None of them are falling to 13(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230308/4cea9db7ec4a2eda0c166e6d62d9420b.gif)
You'll take Duggan in rd 3 or 4 and like it
Post by: Coach K on March 07, 2023, 09:02:05 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230308/4cea9db7ec4a2eda0c166e6d62d9420b.gif)Hahahaha
Post by: Coach K on March 07, 2023, 09:02:47 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230308/4cea9db7ec4a2eda0c166e6d62d9420b.gif)I always tell myself the American guy from kickboxer with ajCVD was a hacksaw inspired guy rofl
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 12:46:17 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 12:46:27 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 12:59:30 PM
https://x.com/nfl_dovkleiman/status/1701641482505990555?s=42&t=oQHlTr9_OCVIYXOt5gHlYQ
lmao
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 01:04:44 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 01:06:34 PM
SBTZ
lmao
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 01:10:03 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 12, 2023, 01:19:35 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 01:36:45 PM
we're gonna end up discussing all these potential QBs...only to end up signing Flacco. Welcome to hell.
He isn’t the worst option I’ve seen mentioned, sadly
Post by: bojanglesman on September 12, 2023, 02:55:43 PM
He isn’t the worst option I’ve seen mentioned, sadly
If it's down to Flacco, I'd rather sign someone with comic/newsworthy potential- Call up Sanchez/Fitzmagic.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 12, 2023, 02:58:57 PM
Post by: ons on September 12, 2023, 03:02:11 PM
If it's down to Flacco, I'd rather sign someone with comic/newsworthy potential- Call up Sanchez/Fitzmagic.
Bortles is funnier, only 31, and went to the AFC championship game with Hackett.
Sigh
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 03:07:10 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 08:30:58 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 13, 2023, 08:35:27 AM
https://x.com/josinaanderson/status/1701933302670676390?s=42&t=oQHlTr9_OCVIYXOt5gHlYQ
just about to post this.
kick rocks, Jemele Hill.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2023, 09:02:52 AM
Russini
Post by: MBGreen on September 13, 2023, 09:37:54 AM
If we’re going to continue to have Oline problems, we should probably avoid statutes.
Statute of Limitations
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2023, 09:54:01 AM
Statute of Limitations
God freaking damnit. Fixed.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 15, 2023, 09:18:01 AM
the only time we can really talk about a QB 'replacement' is if zach plays for several weeks and beyond a doubt stinks it up. in that moment the team and rodgers would understand if the FO would pivot to another option, and we'd have a better idea at that time if guys like tannehill or cousins were available via trade.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 10:31:22 AM
the best/only thing we can do right now is roll with zach. anything else would likely come off very poorly to both the team and to rodgers, who like zach and know about the work he's put in with all of them this offseason to get to this point. they all want him to have this shot and it's what we should do. i have major doubts but i hope this kid proves me wrong.
the only time we can really talk about a QB 'replacement' is if zach plays for several weeks and beyond a doubt stinks it up. in that moment the team and rodgers would understand if the FO would pivot to another option, and we'd have a better idea at that time if guys like tannehill or cousins were available via trade.
I know it's early with a small sample size...but i always wanted to see Zach in a different offensive system, surrounded by different coaches and their philosophies, before writing him off completely (i was preaching this all last season). Now we have that. THIS has always been my litmus test since i saw what MLF brought to the table.
I'm cautiously optimistic that he turns it around.
Having the support of Aaron Rodgers and hopefully having him in his ear for the rest of the season doesn't hurt either.
If Zach fails, then we'll know it's him and wasn't on MLF.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 15, 2023, 10:45:00 AM
I know it's early with a small sample size...but i always wanted to see Zach in a different offensive system, surrounded by different coaches and their philosophies, before writing him off completely (i was preaching this all last season). Now we have that. THIS has always been my litmus test since i saw what MLF brought to the table.
I'm cautiously optimistic that he turns it around.
Having the support of Aaron Rodgers and hopefully having him in his ear for the rest of the season doesn't hurt either.
If Zach fails, then we'll know it's him and wasn't on MLF.
This
Post by: Heismanberg on September 15, 2023, 10:48:56 AM
If Zach fails, then we'll know it's him and wasn't on MLF.
MLF can still be a excrement coordinator even if Zach stinks
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 11:19:36 AM
MLF can still be a excrement coordinator even if Zach stinks
of course.
but i was only looking at this with Zach's development being the focal point.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 15, 2023, 11:29:48 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 11:36:35 AM
Has there been a single name floated around for who is going to take the #2 role or are we just gambling that Tim Boyle is never going to have to see the field?
last thing i heard reported was that the Jets are in a holding pattern after they lost out on Brett Rypien.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 11:40:29 AM
Quote
IB THE GAMBLER 🔌
@incarceratedbob
·
2h
Zach Wilson probably has 2-3 weeks to prove why Joe Douglas shouldn't go get Kirk Cousins and his expiring deal to be his teams QB the rest of this must win season. #Jets
Incarcerated Bob from the top rope.
Post by: Jumbo on September 15, 2023, 12:40:49 PM
Incarcerated Bob from the top rope.
Despite how ridiculous it sounds on the surface, if the Vikings keep losing by the trade deadline - and the only have a couple of maybe gimmes, especially considering they already lost to Tampa - I could see it, they've been rumored to want to move on for forever, he's on an expiring deal, would be an interesting true rental.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 15, 2023, 01:01:57 PM
Despite how ridiculous it sounds on the surface, if the Vikings keep losing by the trade deadline - and the only have a couple of maybe gimmes, especially considering they already lost to Tampa - I could see it, they've been rumored to want to move on for forever, he's on an expiring deal, would be an interesting true rental.Cousins is the one QB who is good enough to make a difference and potentially expendable.
Post by: guinness77 on September 15, 2023, 01:12:12 PM
Welp, officially rooting against the Vikings for a few weeks then.
Incarcerated Bob from the top rope.
Despite how ridiculous it sounds on the surface, if the Vikings keep losing by the trade deadline - and the only have a couple of maybe gimmes, especially considering they already lost to Tampa - I could see it, they've been rumored to want to move on for forever, he's on an expiring deal, would be an interesting true rental.This.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 15, 2023, 01:22:49 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 15, 2023, 01:28:19 PM
https://youtu.be/kbBHUiyH0PM?si=TF8wbernZeazMkpU
Around the 4 minute mark Tannenbaum Scott and Greeny saying the Jets should trade a 3rd for Cousins (and discuss Tannehill as well)
I think it's ridiculous nonsense but we'll see
Post by: Johnny English on September 15, 2023, 01:28:47 PM
It's a really terrible idea on multiple levels.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 15, 2023, 01:47:16 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 01:50:01 PM
Kirk Cousins with a preseason to get familiar with the playbook, the staff and his teammates would be a superior option to last season's Zach Wilson. Kirk Cousins coming in after 5 games played and trying to figure all that out on the fly when we're 1-4 and already pretty much doomed for the season would likely just be a waste of the cap space that is going to be at a premium shortly.
It's a really terrible idea on multiple levels.
this is the correct take
Post by: Jumbo on September 15, 2023, 01:50:04 PM
Kirk Cousins with a preseason to get familiar with the playbook, the staff and his teammates would be a superior option to last season's Zach Wilson. Kirk Cousins coming in after 5 games played and trying to figure all that out on the fly when we're 1-4 and already pretty much doomed for the season would likely just be a waste of the cap space that is going to be at a premium shortly.
It's a really terrible idea on multiple levels.
Most instances of QBs getting traded mid-season (Carson Palmer, Jimmy G) involve guys who were on the bench/not playing, but both guys played around their career averages with their new teams. I don't see why we couldn't simplify the playbook a bit to accommodate in the event a trade happens, and if we're doing that it means he is almost definitely going to be an upgrade over Zach.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 15, 2023, 01:50:58 PM
Kirk Cousins with a preseason to get familiar with the playbook, the staff and his teammates would be a superior option to last season's Zach Wilson. Kirk Cousins coming in after 5 games played and trying to figure all that out on the fly when we're 1-4 and already pretty much doomed for the season would likely just be a waste of the cap space that is going to be at a premium shortly.Are you against trading for all veteran quarterbacks then?
It's a really terrible idea on multiple levels.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 01:53:10 PM
Are you against trading for all veteran quarterbacks then?
I am
It's not just learning the offense. You have to build chemistry and timing. That won't happen overnight...that takes multiple weeks (basically a 2nd training camp).
Saleh is 100% correct in saying this is Zach's team.
Post by: Johnny English on September 15, 2023, 01:54:07 PM
Are you against trading for all veteran quarterbacks then?
I'd be signing a free agent to back Zach up who could still function as a starter if necessary, not trading for a top 10/15 QB to be the de facto starter. I'd have already been on the phone to Colt McCoy this week.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 01:56:11 PM
I'd be signing a free agent to back Zach up who could still function as a starter if necessary, not trading for a top 10/15 QB to be the de facto starter. I'd have already been on the phone to Colt McCoy this week.
yes
looking for backups is what should be happening. Not Kirk Cousins.
Post by: Johnny English on September 15, 2023, 02:06:36 PM
yes
looking for backups is what should be happening. Not Kirk Cousins.
Right. You don't sign a top QB to run a simplified playbook, hand the ball off 30 times a game, and not turn it over. You can sign a veteran JAG to do that. You sign a top QB to beat opponents with his arm and his brain, and he can't do that without knowing the playbook and the receivers properly.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 02:07:25 PM
Right. You don't sign a top QB to run a simplified playbook, hand the ball off 30 times a game, and not turn it over. You can sign a veteran JAG to do that. You sign a top QB to beat opponents with his arm and his brain, and he can't do that without knowing the playbook and the receivers properly.100% correct
Post by: bojanglesman on September 15, 2023, 02:18:42 PM
I'd be signing a free agent to back Zach up who could still function as a starter if necessary, not trading for a top 10/15 QB to be the de facto starter. I'd have already been on the phone to Colt McCoy this week.
McCoy would make sense. He can function and is a free agent. He can dink and dunk just fine and won't excrement his pants. Zach needs a backup that is at least a cardboard placeholder. I don't know if Zach is even that decent, let alone Boyle. McCoy has played a lot.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 15, 2023, 02:32:13 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 15, 2023, 02:36:50 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 15, 2023, 02:48:47 PM
McCoy stinks. Signing a guy like McCoy means you're riding with Zach. I'm not opposed to that, but I don't think McCoy is any better than Tim Boyle. I'm a little surprised we haven't gotten a 3rd quarterback somewhere yet because we need someone, even if we eventually cut them for a bigger addition.
I think everyone knows we aren't signing someone to bump down Zach. It's his job. Of course McCoy isn't great, that's why he's a free agent. Everyone that's a free agent still isn't any good. He is a QB with lots of experience who has seen multiple systems. And he is better than Boyle. We aren't finding a top 20 QB that's suddenly available and we aren't trading for one.
Might be worth waiting a week to see if anyone shakes loose from a roster.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 02:56:21 PM
McCoy stinks. Signing a guy like McCoy means you're riding with Zach. I'm not opposed to that, but I don't think McCoy is any better than Tim Boyle. I'm a little surprised we haven't gotten a 3rd quarterback somewhere yet because we need someone, even if we eventually cut them for a bigger addition.
Every backup QB from coast to coast is flawed....every one of them. That's why they're backups.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 15, 2023, 03:02:43 PM
Tannehill could be available if the Titans are 0-3. Cousins could be available, too.
Obviously it's not ideal to bring in a QB midseason, but if Zach is a trainwreck the next 2-3 weeks, this defense is too good to not do anything. Best case scenario, Zach is mediocre, and we can work with that. But if he's late-season Zach from last year, we can't play 16 more games like that.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 03:08:05 PM
I think Zach basically gets 2 weeks until we start seriously seeking trade options.
Tannehill could be available if the Titans are 0-3. Cousins could be available, too.
Obviously it's not ideal to bring in a QB midseason, but if Zach is a trainwreck the next 2-3 weeks, this defense is too good to not do anything. Best case scenario, Zach is mediocre, and we can work with that. But if he's late-season Zach from last year, we can't play 16 more games like that.
if Zach is a trainwreck, that would've shown up on Monday. The kid literally held the fort under shitty circumstances against a potential super bowl contender. Under MLF, he would've folded like a tent.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 15, 2023, 03:11:49 PM
if Zach is a trainwreck, that would've shown up on Monday. The kid literally held the fort under shitty circumstances against a potential super bowl contender. Under MLF, he would've folded like a tent.Let's be real, he wasn't good. He wasn't a trainwreck, and if he plays like that, we can survive. But he also started last season playing OK and then by December, he was unplayable.
Sunday, he faces a Cowboys defense that looked utterly dominant last week. Next week, he faces a Patriots defense that has caused him some of the biggest issues in his career. It could get a lot worse for Zach, and if it does, we probably need to make a move.
I don't expect Zach to play well. I don't think he has to play well to keep his job. He just can't throw us out of games like he did last year. If he plays like December 2022 Zach Wilson, we need to bring in someone other than Wilson and Boyle. If he plays like September-October Zach Wilson, it's not great, but we don't need to make a move.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 15, 2023, 03:21:44 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 03:31:02 PM
Let's be real, he wasn't good. He wasn't a trainwreck, and if he plays like that, we can survive. But he also started last season playing OK and then by December, he was unplayable.
Sunday, he faces a Cowboys defense that looked utterly dominant last week. Next week, he faces a Patriots defense that has caused him some of the biggest issues in his career. It could get a lot worse for Zach, and if it does, we probably need to make a move.
I don't expect Zach to play well. I don't think he has to play well to keep his job. He just can't throw us out of games like he did last year. If he plays like December 2022 Zach Wilson, we need to bring in someone other than Wilson and Boyle. If he plays like September-October Zach Wilson, it's not great, but we don't need to make a move.
We're not trading for another starter, dude. You might as well accept that.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 15, 2023, 03:33:52 PM
if Zach is a trainwreck, that would've shown up on Monday. The kid literally held the fort under shitty circumstances against a potential super bowl contender. Under MLF, he would've folded like a tent.
Under the circumstances Zach did what you could expect of him. But the dude also threw virtually no passes past the line of scrimmage, got carried by a ridiculously successful running game, our defense had a freakishly successful night holding the Bills to 16 points and forcing 4 turnovers, and our special teams scored a td.
In other words however good or bad Zach is got covered up by extraordinarily conservative offensive play calling and basically all other aspects of our team having freakishly good nights
Realistically you can't expect the running game to average over 6 YPC or the defense to force 4 turnovers. So at some point Zach will have to actually make plays to attempt to win. Where this game his role was basically don't freak up everyone else's success
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 15, 2023, 03:34:09 PM
We're not trading for another starter, dude. You might as well accept that.What do you think happens if Zach throws 0 TD and 5 Int the next 2 games?
I don't want to trade for a starting-caliber QB now. But if this defense looks great and Zach is utter dogshit, I imagine they will try to bring someone in.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 03:36:41 PM
Under the circumstances Zach did what you could expect of him. But the dude also threw virtually no passes past the line of scrimmage, got carried by a ridiculously successful running game, our defense had a freakishly successful night holding the Bills to 16 points and forcing 4 turnovers, and our special teams scored a td.
In other words however good or bad Zach is got covered up by extraordinarily conservative offensive play calling and basically all other aspects of our team having freakishly good nights
To be fair, Zach had ZERO reps with the starters, and ZERO prep to start in general. He wasn't going to come into the game and light it up like Mahomes.
After a week of prep with the starting offense, i expect to see a little more in week 2. Just do enough to win.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 15, 2023, 03:38:15 PM
What do you think happens if Zach throws 0 TD and 5 Int the next 2 games?
I don't want to trade for a starting-caliber QB now. But if this defense looks great and Zach is utter dogshit, I imagine they will try to bring someone in.
Odds are we sign someone before that.
The trade options are limited, and I don't think teams are going to ship out QB's in week 2 or 3. I'd say free agency is much much more likely, despite talking heads debating Cousins and Tannehill
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 03:39:31 PM
What do you think happens if Zach throws 0 TD and 5 Int the next 2 games?
then the season is over.
This team's expectations and aspirations were hitched to Aaron Rodgers. That's our reality.
Hopefully Zach's development accelerated enough in one offseason so we can stay competitive. That's it.
I guarantee you we're not trading for a starting QB (Cousins, Tannehill, etc etc)...
Post by: dcm1602 on September 15, 2023, 03:40:34 PM
To be fair, Zach had ZERO reps with the starters, and ZERO prep to start in general. He wasn't going to come into the game and light it up like Mahomes.
After a week of prep with the starting offense, i expect to see a little more in week 2. Just do enough to win.
100% true and I don't disagree that Zach did what we needed him to do. My point was you can take very little away from that game as to whether Zach will continue to be a train wreck. Because the rest of our team played at such a ridiculously high level that Zachs role was do as little as possible
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 03:44:17 PM
100% true and I don't disagree that Zach did what we needed him to do. My point was you can take very little away from that game as to whether Zach will continue to be a train wreck. Because the rest of our team played at such a ridiculously high level that Zachs role was do as little as possible
I'm fine with that.
I said this yesterday but i'm cautiously optimistic that under this OC, Zach could turn it around...i'm certainly not expecting a Patrick Mahomes clone, but, a Brad Johnson game manager that doesn't turn the ball over is a reasonable expectation for 2023. Which should be enough to stay competitive with this roster.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 03:53:17 PM
Having a dumbed-down playbook doesn't help either. Defenses figure that excrement out pretty quick. We should know, MLF tried that with Zach.
Post by: Jumbo on September 15, 2023, 03:55:43 PM
Trading for a starting QB at the deadline isn't a magic fix-all. If everything goes right (building team chemistry, learning the playbook, getting on the same page with playcalling, etc), you're probably not seeing any benefit for at least a month (that's best case scenario)...that takes you into November. By then, the season is most likely flushed down the toilet.
Having a dumbed-down playbook doesn't help either. Defenses figure that excrement out pretty quick. We should know, MLF tried that with Zach.
The 49ers traded for Jimmy G at the trade deadline in 2017. He went 5-0 with a 96.2 passer rating.
Cousins is probably better than that, I don't see why he couldn't replicate something along those lines with us.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 15, 2023, 03:56:08 PM
I'm fine with that.
I said this yesterday but i'm cautiously optimistic that under this OC, Zach could turn it around...i'm certainly not expecting a Patrick Mahomes clone, but, a Brad Johnson game manager that doesn't turn the ball over is a reasonable expectation for 2023. Which should be enough to stay competitive with this roster.
If the Jets schedule was different maybe there would be a small chance for Zach to get some confidence and build on a stretch of positive games.
But Dallas, New England, Denver, Philly. That's a horrific brutal freaking stretch.
The Chiefs is the only defense that isn't a nightmare. But with that offense Zach might be forced to throw it a lot.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 15, 2023, 03:58:55 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 04:00:36 PM
The 49ers traded for Jimmy G at the trade deadline in 2017. He went 5-0 with a 96.2 passer rating.
Cousins is probably better than that, I don't see why he couldn't replicate something along those lines with us.
Well..i guess if we had Kyle Shanahan, we could probably pull off a similar miracle. I mean, all he did was turn a Mr. Irrelevant QB into an undefeated, competent player. Surely, we could do the same.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 04:02:36 PM
If the Jets schedule was different maybe there would be a small chance for Zach to get some confidence and build on a stretch of positive games.
But Dallas, New England, Denver, Philly. That's a horrific brutal freaking stretch.
The Chiefs is the only defense that isn't a nightmare. But with that offense Zach might be forced to throw it a lot.
The Chiefs D is good too, and they've got their best player back (Chris Jones).
We need to play good defense, and not turn over the ball.
If Mahomes lights us up...we would've been in tough with Rodgers anyway, not just Zach.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 15, 2023, 04:04:59 PM
The Chiefs D is good too, and they've got their best player back (Chris Jones).
We need to play good defense, and not turn over the ball.
If Mahomes lights us up...we would've been in tough with Rodgers anyway, not just Zach.
Sure but we're talking about Zach turning it around
And I believe his confidence is going to be completley shattered by having one of the worst scheduling stretches in the league the next few weeks.
If we has some trash games in there. Maybe be turns something around, but he's gonna get brutalized
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 04:06:31 PM
Sure but we're talking about Zach turning it around
And I believe his confidence is going to be completley shattered by having one of the worst scheduling stretches in the league the next few weeks.
If we has some trash games in there. Maybe be turns something around, but he's gonna get brutalized
Let's see how it plays out. The offensive coaches from 2022 are gone. Zach actually has support this year.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 15, 2023, 04:06:54 PM
Trading for a starting QB at the deadline isn't a magic fix-all. If everything goes right (building team chemistry, learning the playbook, getting on the same page with playcalling, etc), you're probably not seeing any benefit for at least a month (that's best case scenario)...that takes you into November. By then, the season is most likely flushed down the toilet.If Zach is as bad as he was last year, any starting-caliber QB is instantly an upgrade, even in a dumbed-down playbook.
Having a dumbed-down playbook doesn't help either. Defenses figure that excrement out pretty quick. We should know, MLF tried that with Zach.
I don't know if we were going to get elite Rodgers, but an average QB would have made this a playoff team last year. That's still the case this year, especially with one win already in the bag.
I am totally fine giving Zach a chance, and I wouldn't make a move now. Prices league-wide would be too high, and Zach is still a 24-year old former top-5 pick who now has a chance with a new OC and Rodgers giving him help.
But the last time we saw Wilson as the starter, he was the worst QB in the NFL. If he's playing like that again, it would be malpractice to stick with him and Boyle and guys not currently on rosters for 17 games.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 04:12:24 PM
If Zach is as bad as he was last year, any starting-caliber QB is instantly an upgrade, even in a dumbed-down playbook.
I don't know if we were going to get elite Rodgers, but an average QB would have made this a playoff team last year. That's still the case this year, especially with one win already in the bag.
I am totally fine giving Zach a chance, and I wouldn't make a move now. Prices league-wide would be too high, and Zach is still a 24-year old former top-5 pick who now has a chance with a new OC and Rodgers giving him help.
But the last time we saw Wilson as the starter, he was the worst QB in the NFL. If he's playing like that again, it would be malpractice to stick with him and Boyle and guys not currently on rosters for 17 games.
Wilson is in a different system and is actually receiving the level of coaching he should've had last year. It's not going to turn in his favor overnight, that's why my expectation is "game manager" in 2023.
You keep referring to last season...last season was a tire fire because of your boi MLF. Last season was a case study on how an OC could ruin a rookie QB.
It's not malpractice. Injuries happen, and now the Jets are dealing with it the best way they can. You're not going any further with a new starter from another team unless Jumbo brings in Kyle Shanahan for half a season. We don't have a guy on our staff like him.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 15, 2023, 04:17:40 PM
I hope you're right, and it is. But Zach has to prove it, and so far, every datapoint is bad.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 04:28:38 PM
We get it, it's all MLF's fault.
yeah, he was a major part of it. You didn't listen last year, so i'll keep reminding you periodically for the rest of your life. :)
Quote
I hope you're right, and it is. But Zach has to prove it, and so far, every datapoint is bad.
every datapoint? lol...it's one game that he had zero prep for. Maybe let him cook first before taking a excrement on him. If he stinks, we're gonna find out regardless.
And before you mention last season, he's not in that system anymore.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 15, 2023, 04:53:47 PM
Right. You don't sign a top QB to run a simplified playbook, hand the ball off 30 times a game, and not turn it over. You can sign a veteran JAG to do that. You sign a top QB to beat opponents with his arm and his brain, and he can't do that without knowing the playbook and the receivers properly.
we are all being optimistic about zach but this is a guy who hasn't even shown he can be the game manager that you're trying to describe for us.
a proven vet like cousins can come in and immediately be a 'game manager' type, hand off the ball a ton and make the simple passes / decisions while he takes his time to build chemistry with the team and learn the intricacies of the offense. it may take a few weeks and it may not be as comprehensive as we'd want it to be, but at the very least he can be a better game manager than zach, and at his very best he's the type of guy that moves the needle at QB after he gets the hang of things here.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 15, 2023, 05:00:28 PM
i fvcking hate bill belichick but knowing his history against young QBs and with zach in general, i'm fully expecting several WTF throws and possibly 1-2 picks off the bat during the pats game. zach literally gave an aging mccourty a career that past two seasons with all the picks he threw to him and we're here turning our noses up at the prospect of trading for a proven vet like tannehill or cousins because it would be a mid-season pickup.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 15, 2023, 05:06:16 PM
i'm willing to give zach a shot but he is nowhere near a guarantee to be a capable 'game manager' for us; he's shown us he can be anything but.Exactly. I want to believe in Zach. I am fine giving him a shot. I don't need him to play great. Just play like Mac Jones. Mac is a below average starting quarterback but he's competent. Zach hasn't shown he can be that. MLF didn't do a good job, but throwing out the first 2 years like they it's 100% MLF's fault is ridiculous.
i fvcking hate bill belichick but knowing his history against young QBs and with zach in general, i'm fully expecting several WTF throws and possibly 1-2 picks off the bat during the pats game. zach literally gave an aging mccourty a career that past two seasons with all the picks he threw to him and we're here turning our noses up at the prospect of trading for a proven vet like tannehill or cousins because it would be a mid-season pickup.
Two weeks from now against the Pats is the big spot. I don't expect to beat the Cowboys. I hope Zach isn't a disaster.
But if he's a disaster at home against the Patriots, and we lose to the Patriots again, and it's Zach's fault again, this fanbase will turn on him again.
Everything we've seen from the Jets this preseason has been trying to lift Zach up. Whether it's the coaches yelling at him to have fun in the preseason, or every receiver coming over to him on the sideline to try to pick up his spirits, or Aaron constantly talking about how much he likes Zach, it seems clear like they want to pump him up and gain confidence. I don't know if that's a good sign or a bad sign. You could argue that they all see how talented he is and want to help him reach there. Or you could argue this is a shattered quarterback who doesn't believe in himself, and the team is desperately trying to make it work.
Post by: Badger on September 15, 2023, 05:09:57 PM
if Zach is a trainwreck, that would've shown up on Monday. The kid literally held the fort under shitty circumstances against a potential super bowl contender. Under MLF, he would've folded like a tent.Monday Zach looked exactly like he did for about half of last season.
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 05:10:30 PM
i'm willing to give zach a shot but he is nowhere near a guarantee to be a capable 'game manager' for us; he's shown us he can be anything but.I said expectation, not guarantee.
i fvcking hate bill belichick but knowing his history against young QBs and with zach in general, i'm fully expecting several WTF throws and possibly 1-2 picks off the bat during the pats game. zach literally gave an aging mccourty a career that past two seasons with all the picks he threw to him and we're here turning our noses up at the prospect of trading for a proven vet like tannehill or cousins because it would be a mid-season pickup.
#gamemanager
Post by: MBGreen on September 15, 2023, 05:12:46 PM
Monday Zach looked exactly like he did for about half of last season.Last year, Zach couldn't hit a screen pass or anyone in the flat. He did both on Monday. Outside of that one INT, he was alright.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 15, 2023, 05:32:34 PM
These next two weeks are critical for Wilson. If he plays poorly, and Cousins is available, they should make the trade. The number 1 thing you have to do with this team right now is keep the roster happy and motivated. If this staff loses the locker room, even a cyborg Rodgers coming back next year won't save it.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 15, 2023, 05:41:59 PM
A games worth of Zach trying to run Hackett’s gameplan for Rodgers.
We played very basic football against Buffalo. I-Formation, 11/12/13 formations, and some gun with a tight end.
It’s all run heavy. Bring on the play action.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 15, 2023, 05:52:20 PM
As Heis said, there is a slight advantage here with Dallas only having access to some very dumbed down plays and run heavy sets.
I’m expecting to still see the extra TE sets and run packages in there but Hackett will definitely try to open it up some more.
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2023, 08:39:23 AM
That should pop the Cousins balloon
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 17, 2023, 09:11:10 AM
Post by: Laxin on September 17, 2023, 09:11:19 AM
https://twitter.com/DMRussini/status/1703365780958572718?t=VuhUiaG4n-ppa_yJyZSI1g&s=19
That should pop the Cousins balloon
That may change in the next month if Zach plays like he did last year.
They aren’t sticking with Zach for 16 games if he plays like the worst QB in the league. I don’t really care what kind of coaches speak they are telling the media, free agents, etc right now.
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2023, 09:34:06 AM
That may change in the next month if Zach plays like he did last year.You're setting yourself up for some disappointment
They aren’t sticking with Zach for 16 games if he plays like the worst QB in the league. I don’t really care what kind of coaches speak they are telling the media, free agents, etc right now.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 17, 2023, 09:46:47 AM
It would be career suicide to take a job immediately after a major crash-and-burn if you didn't believe you saw something there.
I'm probably doing a great job at convincing myself, but I believe Zach is going to surprise everyone. I don't expect him to be a top-5 QB, but this team will be playing in January if he's a top-15.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 17, 2023, 10:26:49 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2023, 10:26:53 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 17, 2023, 10:42:49 AM
Post by: MBGreen on September 17, 2023, 10:50:20 AM
Nobody said we were trading for Cousins now. The question is what happens if Zach is unplayable like he was last year.We're not trading for him later either.
If Zach is unplayable, see you in 2024.
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 17, 2023, 10:57:47 AM
Nobody said we were trading for Cousins now. The question is what happens if Zach is unplayable like he was last year.
If Zach looks like he did last year and this team doesn't make a move, it'll be a death sentence for the current regime. There's no way this locker room will stay intact with this many good players and a QB losing games for them.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 17, 2023, 12:27:02 PM
If Zach looks like he did last year and this team doesn't make a move, it'll be a death sentence for the current regime. There's no way this locker room will stay intact with this many good players and a QB losing games for them.Agreed. Hopefully Wilson plays well enough where none of it matters. But if Wilson is as bad as he was last season and the Jets do nothing, every good vibe around this roster could fade away quickly. The potential of Rodgers returning likely buys Saleh and Douglas another year regardless but nothing is guaranteed.
I'm sure Douglas is thinking of contingency plans in that scenario. It's too early to do anything. In the short term this season, they just need a 3rd body in at QB who can compete as a backup. A couple weeks from now could be a different story.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 17, 2023, 12:30:26 PM
we have a ton of time before the trade deadline to assess if zach has what it takes or not to at least get us to the playoffs.
if he looks as bad as he did last year, we are going to make a move for a QB by the deadline. rodgers is gone but the FO are not going to waste an entire year with the rest of the talent left on this roster
Post by: dcm1602 on September 17, 2023, 01:01:54 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 17, 2023, 01:04:14 PM
Turns out that douchey free agent QB who kisses little boys, partial purchase of the Raiders hasn't been approved by the league office yet, so he's free to sign with anyone without jumping through hoops
I'm 99% certain he has no more interest in playing, and I'm 100% certain that he has no interest in playing for us or vice versa.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 17, 2023, 01:16:34 PM
I'm 99% certain he has no more interest in playing, and I'm 100% certain that he has no interest in playing for us or vice versa.
Fair assessment.
But until our QB situation is settled all kinds of obnoxious rumors will be happening. And this does move it from 100% chance of not happening to 99%
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 21, 2023, 11:10:22 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 21, 2023, 11:17:11 PM
Apparently we tried to sign Chad Henne but he declined.
Good morning AR, welcome to about 9 days ago.
Post by: reuben on September 21, 2023, 11:19:32 PM
Why the freak do you need a fourth quarterback on the roster, Bill?
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 11:12:40 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on September 24, 2023, 11:14:16 AM
Matty Ice is done
Wentz is an poopchute literally no one in the league wants. If Douglas hasn’t called him yet despite having a pretty good idea who he was from their time together in Philly, I don’t imagine he wants to call him now
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 11:20:11 AM
I’m sure they have. Just because they’ve called us doesn’t mean we want them.The point was...this is Zach's team. We're not bringing in a vet starter, including Cousins.
Matty Ice is done
Wentz is an poopchute literally no one in the league wants. If Douglas hasn’t called him yet despite having a pretty good idea who he was from their time together in Philly, I don’t imagine he wants to call him now
Post by: Libero_2 on September 24, 2023, 11:22:42 AM
The point was...this is Zach's team. We're not bringing in a vet starter, including Cousins.
I still want a vet in the room. Someone to play so we can send Boyle back to the PS where he belongs
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 11:28:29 AM
I still want a vet in the room. Someone to play so we can send Boyle back to the PS where he belongsThat vet in the room will be Aaron Rodgers...when he's healthy enough to help the coaching staff/QBs in person.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 11:31:09 AM
That vet in the room will be Aaron Rodgers...when he's healthy enough to help the coaching staff/QBs in person.
He's not wrong
Let's just say that Zach actually plays decent enough to keep us competitive for one of the final wildcard spots
We have a pretty bad OL, say Zach misses 1-2 games. Do you really want to depend on Boyle?
Even if you have 100% faith in Zach (which nobody should). Nobody should have faith in Boyle to hold the fort for a game or two
If your argument is we shouldn't go after Cousins or another candidate to be our starter,, that's fair.
If your argument is Boyles is good enough to fill in for a Zach injury, in a scenario where we actually need it. He's not
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 11:39:31 AM
He's not wrongI'm not arguing anything...im just watching how the Jets have been handling this. If they were desperate to bring in another vet, then they would have.
Let's just say that Zach actually plays decent enough to keep us competitive for one of the final wildcard spots
We have a pretty bad OL, say Zach misses 1-2 games. Do you really want to depend on Boyle?
Even if you have 100% faith in Zach (which nobody should). Nobody should have faith in Boyle to hold the fort for a game or two
If you're argument is we shouldn't go after Cousins or another candidate to be our starter,, that's fair.
If your argument is Boyles is good enough to fill in for a Zach injury, in a scenario where we actually need it. He's not
And think about it...if Zach goes down, does it really matter who they bring in? The season would be over.
EDIT: could the jets still pivot on this? Sure...but I'm just opining on what I've seen up until now.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 11:42:41 AM
I'm not arguing anything...im just watching how the Jets have been handling this. If they were desperate to bring in another vet, then they would have.
And think about it...if Zach goes down, does it really matter who they bring in? The season would be over.
I'm talking about Zach missing 1-2 games in a season where we're competing for a wildcard
I'm not talking about him missing 8 weeks.
And we've played 2 games, there's plenty of the time for the coaching staff to make moves
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 11:43:44 AM
I'm talking about Zach missing 1-2 games in a season where we're competing for a wildcardMake moves for who? Who's going to come in and hit the ground running in a brand new system?
I'm not talking about him missing 8 weeks.
And we've played 2 games, there's plenty of the time for the coaching staff to make moves
There's nobody available at this point...that will make a difference
If Zach misses a game or 2...say hello to Tim Boyle
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 11:46:31 AM
Make moves for who? Who's going to come in and hit the ground running in a brand new system?
There's nobody available at this point...that will make a difference
If Zach misses a game or 2...say hello to Tim Boyle
We've played 2 games
The regular season ends January 7th
We don't need someone to start today
We need someone who can become competent enoguh to spot start over the next 14 weeks
Post by: Jumbo on September 24, 2023, 11:49:31 AM
I'm not arguing anything...im just watching how the Jets have been handling this. If they were desperate to bring in another vet, then they would have.
And think about it...if Zach goes down, does it really matter who they bring in? The season would be over.
EDIT: could the jets still pivot on this? Sure...but I'm just opining on what I've seen up until now.
It's not like Joey D has fucked up the backup QB situation before forcing his hand to make a midseason trade for no reason
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 11:50:40 AM
We've played 2 gamesYou're not listening
The regular season ends January 7th
We don't need someone to start today
We need someone who can become competent enoguh to spot start over the next 14 weeks
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 11:51:02 AM
It's not like Joey D has fucked up the backup QB situation before forcing his hand to make a midseason trade for no reasonHe might have learned from past mistakes
Post by: Jumbo on September 24, 2023, 11:54:23 AM
He might have learned from past mistakes
We are currently rolling with Tim Boyle, a guy who had more INT than TD in the FCS, and in his only extended NFL run in 2021 lost all three of his starts had 3 INT to 6 TD with a 63 passer rating. There's no reason to believe he would be able to hold down the fort in any competent way.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 11:56:30 AM
You're not listening
The Jets tried getting Henne and McCoy to bite
Clearly were looking at our options. It makes no sense to assume we won't continue to do so
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 11:58:20 AM
The Jets tried getting Henne and McCoy to biteWhich is fine...but I don't think the level of desperation is high
Clearly were looking at our options. It makes no sense to assume we won't continue to do so
And I'll reiterate..if one of these guys were to start games, it's joever.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 12:02:42 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 12:05:30 PM
Which is fine...but I don't think the level of desperation is high
And I'll reiterate..if one of these guys were to start games, it's joever.
We're talking 1 or 2 games
What's the most frequent injury that causes QBs to miss time?
Pretty sure it's a concussion, so yeah we might need a guy to finish a game and start a game
I know it's hard to imagine there being another talent out there that can fill Zach's shoes, but if we look hard enough we just might find that special someone
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 12:11:34 PM
We're talking 1 or 2 gamesNo, you won't...not mid-season
What's the most frequent injury that causes QBs to miss time?
Pretty sure it's a concussion, so yeah we might need a guy to finish a game and start a game
I know it's hard to imagine there being another talent out there that can fill Zach's shoes, but if we look hard enough we just might find that special someone
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 12:12:54 PM
No, you won't...not mid-season
What about the start of the season? Say like week 3
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 12:20:43 PM
What about the start of the season? Say like week 3Same...what do you think TC is for?
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 24, 2023, 12:49:43 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 12:59:16 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 04:13:24 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 04:30:59 PM
Vikings are 0-3. 1 more loss and I think we could get Cousins for a 3rd and a 6th. But we needed to win today to buy some time. Not sure it's worth it at 1-2.Hes not coming here...get over it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 04:31:50 PM
Hes not coming here...get over it.The broken record has spoken.
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 04:32:43 PM
The broken record has spoken.Look in the mirror....try to avoid eye contact with your Shirley Jones haircut
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 04:40:26 PM
Enjoy the broken record, or truth, or whatever you want to call it.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 04:41:34 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 04:43:02 PM
Which he should be to be fair
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 04:43:07 PM
The people who think were trading for Cousins are almost as delusional as the people who thought Lamar Jackson was coming hereApples and oranges on so many levels.
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 04:43:38 PM
But on a serious note the only scenario I see Cousins coming here is if joe Douglas is very worried about his job.Hes not coming here...and Douglas is probably fine until 2024
Which he should be to be fair
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 04:46:31 PM
The people who think were trading for Cousins are almost as delusional as the people who thought Lamar Jackson was coming hereIt made sense if we were 2-1 or 3-3 and the Vikings had a bad record.
But it doesn't look like we will get to 3-3 so there's no sense giving up a high draft pick for a vet QB if the playoffs are unlikely.
Cousins was always unlikely but he is the best option out there if he became available. If the Jets win games, it buys them time for a vet to become available. It doesn't have to be Cousins. Nobody is trading a competent QB in Week 2. Week 6 is potentially a different story, but if we are 1-4, it's irrelevant.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 24, 2023, 04:50:03 PM
Hes not coming here...and Douglas is probably fine until 2024
I 100% agree that Douglas has one more year because everything is in limbo until the Rodgers scenario plays out. But right now next year is a 100% a make or break year for him. A desperation move for a QB, could potentially completely shelve that conversation.
Not to mention I'd assume next year would normally be the time you discuss a contract extension with JD, which he obviously is not worthy of
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 24, 2023, 04:59:44 PM
If we go 1-4 or 1-5 it’s a different story. We’re 1-2. We’re less than 25% of the way into the season. Why would that same group of guys go ‘Welp, better luck next year?’ if a solid QB was available and attainable? Again, we’re extremely early in the season still, and nobody is guaranteed a job for next year. That’s the nature of the business. You think these guys would just sit on their laurels, throw the season away, and feel comfortable with the likelihood they have a job next year after another horrible season? No chance, unless they’re complete dumbasses, but as imperfect as they are I find a hard time believing any of these guys are that naive.
Zach is light years away from even being a ‘game manager’ type QB. He can’t process a rush, go through progressions, and make a checkdown, and in the rare case he does it’s on 4th and 10 with the game on the line.
Tannehill or Cousins would be the best case scenarios for this team, but even Wentz is a better option right now. Zach is finito, and if the FO/coaching staff are okay with being fired after this season, they’ll operate as if this season is a ‘mulligan’ before we even hit week 4.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 05:05:09 PM
The FO and staff made it obvious that we were a QB away from being a contending team. That QB was/is obviously not zach. The guy we got to take us over the hump and free us of zach gets hurt the first drive of the year.Good post. My point is that I don't think those QBs are going to be available for a few more weeks, or if they are, we are paying a mega premium.
If we go 1-4 or 1-5 it’s a different story. We’re 1-2. We’re less than 25% of the way into the season. Why would that same group of guys go ‘Welp, better luck next year?’ if a solid QB was available and attainable? Again, we’re extremely early in the season still, and nobody is guaranteed a job for next year. That’s the nature of the business. You think these guys would just sit on their laurels, throw the season away, and feel comfortable with the likelihood they have a job next year after another horrible season? No chance, unless they’re complete dumbasses, but as imperfect as they are I find a hard time believing any of these guys are that naive.
Zach is light years away from even being a ‘game manager’ type QB. He can’t process a rush, go through progressions, and make a checkdown, and in the rare case he does it’s on 4th and 10 with the game on the line.
Tannehill or Cousins would be the best case scenarios for this team, but even Wentz is a better option right now. Zach is finito, and if the FO/coaching staff are okay with being fired after this season, they’ll operate as if this season is a ‘mulligan’ before we even hit week 4.
Winning buys time. If we can somehow get to 3-3 at the bye, which is extremely unlikely, especially in the scenario where Zach is still sucking, then we can easily pull the trigger. But we had 2 more realistic wins before the bye with Zach, and this was one of them. It's the NFL, so there's not a 0% chance we beat the Eagles or Chiefs, but it's obviously highly unlikely.
I'm still shocked they haven't brought in a 3rd QB onto the practice squad, even if that's some random young quarterback none of us are thinking about.
Post by: Jumbo on September 24, 2023, 05:18:09 PM
Literally just try to bring in someone who isn't Zach Wilson. That we went 2 weeks with only him and Tim Boyle is just inexcusable.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 24, 2023, 05:55:37 PM
The Cardinals traded for Josh freaking Dobbs under a month ago and they are currently beating the Cowboys with 21 points on offense scored behind him - the same team we struggled to do anything against last week, and they're in basically our situation weapons-wise, maybe even worse. This is a with a first year head coach who looked the equivalent of Gase coming into the season.
Literally just try to bring in someone who isn't Zach Wilson. That we went 2 weeks with only him and Tim Boyle is just inexcusable.
after the offseason build up and the come back win game 1, we had to roll with zach.
if we didn't, it would rub the team, some of the fan base, and (most importantly) rodgers the wrong way. way too early to be doing that to a guy dealing with a horrific season ending injury who we brought in here to turn the franchise around. regardless of play, zach is his friend, and he would have wanted zach to get an opportunity.
zach was either going to make the most of the opportunity or show us that he is still not an nfl qb. he had an unimpressive but gutsy performance in week 1, an unimpressive performance in a bad loss in week 2 making a lot of the same mistakes he's been plagued with his first two seasons, and a horrible showing today. the FO understandably has a lot more room now in making a move at QB and benching rodgers' friend zach. the entire team has been trying to hype up zach but they would understand as well given how poor we've been the first 3 weeks of the season. we've given zach a good shot and he's shown us what he is.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 06:16:32 PM
after the offseason build up and the come back win game 1, we had to roll with zach.The decision to roll with Zach as the backup was months ago. Once you kept Zach and didn't trade for a veteran, Zach was the backup. You're not getting anyone after Week 1 who is playable.
if we didn't, it would rub the team, some of the fan base, and (most importantly) rodgers the wrong way. way too early to be doing that to a guy dealing with a horrific season ending injury who we brought in here to turn the franchise around. regardless of play, zach is his friend, and he would have wanted zach to get an opportunity.
zach was either going to make the most of the opportunity or show us that he is still not an nfl qb. he had an unimpressive but gutsy performance in week 1, an unimpressive performance in a bad loss in week 2 making a lot of the same mistakes he's been plagued with his first two seasons, and a horrible showing today. the FO understandably has a lot more room now in making a move at QB and benching rodgers' friend zach. the entire team has been trying to hype up zach but they would understand as well given how poor we've been the first 3 weeks of the season. we've given zach a good shot and he's shown us what he is.
Post by: mj2sexay on September 24, 2023, 06:41:42 PM
Organizational malpractice to not have someone else in here the second Aaron goes down.
And honestly, I don't think he was as much the culprit today as the offensive line, but he still stunk.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 24, 2023, 07:03:37 PM
A lot of fans were behind this move too. There were guys on this board talking about how awesome Rodgers was making Zach this preseason all because of twitter fluff from our shitty beat.
We have to find somebody at QB.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 07:05:32 PM
The idea that the front office didn't want to bring in another quarterback that could be seen as a threat to Zach's spot in order to assist with Zach's mental stability in the position is the biggest freaking joke I've ever heard.So you wanted them to trade for someone after Week 1?
Organizational malpractice to not have someone else in here the second Aaron goes down.
And honestly, I don't think he was as much the culprit today as the offensive line, but he still stunk.
I wanted them to sign a guy to their practice squad to be a 3rd stringer behind Wilson and Boyle. Whether that's a former 7th-round pick that got cut, or some mediocre veteran, or signing another team's practice squadder to the active roster, someone should be brought in. I don't think Nathan Rourke or Case Keenum or Colt McCoy is threatening Zach's job or his ego, and if it does, then we have bigger issues. I don't think a trade for a starting-caliber QB was realistic.
Post by: mj2sexay on September 24, 2023, 07:32:42 PM
So you wanted them to trade for someone after Week 1?
I wanted them to sign a guy to their practice squad to be a 3rd stringer behind Wilson and Boyle. Whether that's a former 7th-round pick that got cut, or some mediocre veteran, or signing another team's practice squadder to the active roster, someone should be brought in. I don't think Nathan Rourke or Case Keenum or Colt McCoy is threatening Zach's job or his ego, and if it does, then we have bigger issues. I don't think a trade for a starting-caliber QB was realistic.
They didn't have to make a trade and spend more draft picks.
Carson Wentz is sitting there. Colt McCoy is sitting there. There is absolutely zero reason one of them over the last two weeks shouldn't have been learning the playbook.
I know they both suck. I don't know if they suck at the level Zach does. He's a freaking mess. If his first read is gone he has no idea where to go with the football.
Post by: Miamipuck on September 24, 2023, 07:35:54 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
They didn't have to make a trade and spend more draft picks.Fair enough. I agree someone else should have signed a week and a half ago.
Carson Wentz is sitting there. Colt McCoy is sitting there. There is absolutely zero reason one of them over the last two weeks shouldn't have been learning the playbook.
I know they both suck. I don't know if they suck at the level Zach does. He's a freaking mess. If his first read is gone he has no idea where to go with the football.
McCoy is terrible, but they need a warm body. Wentz was terrible last season, too. But again, someone else needs to be on the roster besides Wilson and Boyle. I don't even think they are necessarily better than Wilson. But we need to have more options available, and a 3rd QB available. Most teams have 3 QBs if you include the practice squad. Find someone who can be on the practice squad.
Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 07:55:17 PM
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Post by: reuben on September 24, 2023, 09:39:47 PM
Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 09:40:29 PM
Quote
Rich Cimini
@RichCimini
·
1h
Everyone screaming for the #Jets to get a QB — you can’t dial 1-800-GET-A-QB1. There’s no magic elixir. They made their bed. Unless they overpay before the trading deadline, this is it. And there’s no guarantee a starting-caliber QB would even be available.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 09:40:50 PM
I legitimately want to sign Malik Cunningham. Give him a couple packages, see if he can operate them. If he can, maybe we've got something. If not, cut him and turn to Carson Flacco or whomeverthefuck.Finding a random young QB off some team's practice squad would be the most exciting thing they can do IMO. Carry 3 quarterbacks if you want. If Zach sucks, turn to Boyle. If Boyle sucks, turn to whoever we get.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 09:41:27 PM
Yep. Nobody out there that's a reasonable guy to trade for right now. The hope was that you stayed afloat until the trade deadline, and then the overpay wouldn't be quite as bad. But there's no move you can make now, and probably ever.
Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 09:45:36 PM
There's no Shane Falco ready to salvage this heap
We got just enough improvement to look like the same exact team we did last yr vs a much tougher schedule
End of story.
If Rodgers wasn't talking about coming back I'd say clean house is sounding very practical.
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Post by: MBGreen on September 24, 2023, 09:46:36 PM
Yep. Nobody out there that's a reasonable guy to trade for right now. The hope was that you stayed afloat until the trade deadline, and then the overpay wouldn't be quite as bad. But there's no move you can make now, and probably ever.
For sake of argument, let's say this team lands a pick in the top 3. I can't even get hyped to draft a potential franchise QB. This team has ruined me.
Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 09:53:34 PM
For sake of argument, let's say this team lands a pick in the top 3. I can't even get hyped to draft a potential franchise QB. This team has ruined me.Yeah im done getting my hopes up . I'll just overreact as usual negatively or positively . But looks of it I'll he screaming SOJ by end of yr lol
I'm almost shocked at my initial reaction you quoted considering I drank way too much in a 4 hr span lol
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Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 09:54:53 PM
For sake of argument, let's say this team lands a pick in the top 3. I can't even get hyped to draft a potential franchise QB. This team has ruined me.I don't even know what I would think. I would like to think I'd be excited. But I feel like we need to go the other direction and get a veteran, even if it's not a good one. Show me mild competence, even if the upside isn't great. Two of the very few good QB seasons in my lifetime have been trying that (1998 Vinny, 2015 Fitz). Give me a competition between Jameis Winston and Ryan Tannehill? Ugh.
I would probably sell myself on why [insert QB] is different, just like I did with Zach Wilson after Sam Darnold. But I feel I'd be a lot more cynical. Depends on the QB and the other prospects. I'm kind of at the point of - just give me an offensive lineman to help everything on offense and take away an excuse for failure.
Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 09:56:52 PM
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Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 09:58:05 PM
I'm not sure what I prefer in the draft out of QB high or OL high. I could be sold either way. Either build the wall to protect Rodgers and whoever replaces him, or get the QB of the future while you can with a high pick. Both are good options in April. Both are brutal to discuss in September.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 24, 2023, 09:58:49 PM
We've come full circle . Fitzpatrick will still he the best Jets QB season by tbe end of the year and just typing this makes me want to bathe with a toaster.2002 Chad is the other. 2002 Chad was so much fun to watch. He was so accurate and so smart.
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Post by: Coach K on September 24, 2023, 10:05:23 PM
2002 Chad is the other. 2002 Chad was so much fun to watch. He was so accurate and so smart.Yeah I always tell people Pennigton was looking like Montana lite till his shoulder imploded in Oakland
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Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 24, 2023, 10:51:51 PM
Paranoia, maybe, but I suspect the Pats signed Will Grier to keep him away from us.
Why the freak do you need a fourth quarterback on the roster, Bill?
This is annoying. We should have 4 QBs on the roster, if anyone does
Edit: ugh, and I would take all 3 of the patriots backup QBs over Tim Boyle
Post by: reuben on September 24, 2023, 11:42:24 PM
This is annoying. We should have 4 QBs on the roster, if anyone does
Edit: ugh, and I would take all 3 of the patriots backup QBs overTim BoyleZach Wilson
yup
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 11:52:30 AM
Matt Ryan says he has no interest
Post by: Miamipuck on September 25, 2023, 11:59:02 AM
https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1706331333071356058
Matt Ryan says he has no interest
He's full of crap.
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 12:11:05 PM
He's full of crap.
I don't think he comes out and says that unless he truly isn't interested. If he was interested he'd say something to the effect of "no comment"
Post by: mj2sexay on September 25, 2023, 12:38:08 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on September 25, 2023, 02:18:10 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 25, 2023, 02:21:28 PM
If the line doesn't smarten up though it doesn't really matter who is under center.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 02:29:11 PM
McCoy and Foles both make more sense than anyone else IMO. Both have the smarts to pick up the playbook quickly, and the experience to lead the team.
If the line doesn't smarten up though it doesn't really matter who is under center.
Josh Johnson
Post by: Johnny English on September 25, 2023, 02:29:50 PM
Josh JohnsonJohnson feels like the QB for teams that have given up.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 02:37:52 PM
Post by: guinness77 on September 25, 2023, 02:38:19 PM
Johnson feels like the QB for teams that have given up.At this point I would take Tom Tupa over Wilson. I don’t care anymore.
Post by: Heismanberg on September 25, 2023, 02:48:45 PM
Ravens added Johnson back to their 53 today.
Missed opportunity
Post by: reuben on September 25, 2023, 03:15:06 PM
Missed the opportunity for Josh Johnson.
Missed the opportunities to upgrade during TC by signing Teddy Bridgewater or trading for Josh Dobbs.
We attempted to demonstrate confidence in Zach by ignoring roster upgrades. That gambit fell on its face. We need to go get somebody this week.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 25, 2023, 03:18:41 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on September 25, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
Post by: Johnny English on September 25, 2023, 03:56:16 PM
Missed the opportunity for Will Grier.
Missed the opportunity for Josh Johnson.
Missed the opportunities to upgrade during TC by signing Teddy Bridgewater or trading for Josh Dobbs.
We attempted to demonstrate confidence in Zach by ignoring roster upgrades. That gambit fell on its face. We need to go get somebody this week.
They weren't ditching a #2 overall pick after 2 seasons when he had Aaron Rodgers to sit behind. Good backups aren't coming in to be the #3. You can argue that we could or should have made ZW be the #3 and assured a potential backup that they were the de facto #2, but there will still have been more attractive situations for good backups with more realistic chances of winning the starting job. No one was going to look at Rodgers' durability over his career and think they had a good chance of seeing the field this year.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 25, 2023, 04:10:21 PM
i would not feel confident going into the season with zach as qb2 and first guy up if our QB1 went down. we'd essentially give up any potential offensive output that week unless we somehow transform into a rushing juggernaut with hall back at 100% full capacity and a drastically solidified OL, which has an iffy likelihood at this point. but i understand we'd be hamstrung by the cap ramifications of the QB room
the ideal situation would be to obtain QB1 (carr/garoppolo; i prefer carr after a cut), get mike white to agree to another backup money contract, and find a taker for zach.
we won't be able to obtain anything reasonable for zach at this point, so he'll still be here as our development. i hope we can find a third QB for that room that will be both affordable enough for our cap and can potentially give us a better shot at winning than if we had to roll a still unprepared zach out there
i keep going back to this fvcking post. i'm a fvcking nobody that knows nothing and i called this excrement out in january. these guys hold nfl jobs and they need to have better foresight than this. we all saw what a dumpster fire zach was last year. why give him another shot, why? the 49ers knew they had nothing with lance and cut ties as soon as they could. banking on zach to 'improve' just by being around rodgers and choosing him to be the backup of your 40 year old QB while you pretend he's going to be a lock to be healthy are fireable offenses.
it was a horribly wrong move to stick with zach as backup QB. we tried to be nice and do good for him by hyping him up the past few weeks. he doesn't have it. there's no reason to be nice any longer
it wasn't just mike white that showed he was a much better QB than zach. didn't josh johnson also come in and make better reads / progressions and move the ball better than zach 2 years ago, before he also got hurt?
just bring in a body, please. it can't get worse
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 25, 2023, 04:29:57 PM
They weren't ditching a #2 overall pick after 2 seasons when he had Aaron Rodgers to sit behind. Good backups aren't coming in to be the #3. You can argue that we could or should have made ZW be the #3 and assured a potential backup that they were the de facto #2, but there will still have been more attractive situations for good backups with more realistic chances of winning the starting job. No one was going to look at Rodgers' durability over his career and think they had a good chance of seeing the field this year.I mostly agree with this. Once we got Rodgers, it seemed clear Zach would be QB2 and Boyle would be insurance.
But once Rodgers goes down, you need to get a 3rd guy in here. I don't expect someone who is good. I just want someone. Someone should be there to be groomed as the 3rd stringer who can potentially step in down the road if everything falls apart with Wilson and Boyle. Add some random 27-year old scrub QB to the practice squad.
Post by: Badger on September 25, 2023, 06:15:45 PM
i keep going back to this fvcking post. i'm a fvcking nobody that knows nothing and i called this excrement out in january. these guys hold nfl jobs and they need to have better foresight than this. we all saw what a dumpster fire zach was last year. why give him another shot, why? the 49ers knew they had nothing with lance and cut ties as soon as they could.
Bit of an unfair comparison. If Mike White had stayed healthy and balled out down the stretch last year then Zach may very well have been gone. But it turns out we didn't have our own Brock Purdy.
Post by: d sw0rdz on September 25, 2023, 06:55:25 PM
Bit of an unfair comparison. If Mike White had stayed healthy and balled out down the stretch last year then Zach may very well have been gone. But it turns out we didn't have our own Brock Purdy.
i made that post because i felt there was enough evidence to conclude that mike white was the guy you gamble on and keep as backup, that he was a whole lot better than zach, and that zach was/is a lost cause.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 26, 2023, 05:40:35 PM
Honestly, it would have been worth a shot at this point.
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 26, 2023, 05:42:48 PM
https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1706786358482899143
Honestly, it would have been worth a shot at this point.
Probably should have left Chip Kelley off of the reference list there.
But yeah, would have at least been more interesting than Trevor Siemian.
Post by: Badger on September 26, 2023, 06:22:45 PM
https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1706786358482899143I'd do it just to feel something.
Honestly, it would have been worth a shot at this point.
Post by: dcm1602 on September 26, 2023, 06:50:12 PM
You're basically asking for a far worse version of the tebow experiment.
Fortunately this is a publicity stunt as the dudes obviously not coming back
Post by: MBGreen on September 28, 2023, 04:09:29 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on September 28, 2023, 05:36:30 PM
https://x.com/JosinaAnderson/status/1707434932266500335?s=20
The second two parts are fair enough, probably. Though there are probably guys available. Cousins and Tannehill can probably be had for the right price.
But that first part is probably the answer. Woody was happy to spend whatever it took to get a [certain] quarterback.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 09:14:07 AM
Some excerpts regarding the jets from Russini:
-Saleh and JD's jobs aren't guaranteed for next season. No commitment to that from Woody, despite Aaron Rodgers acquisition.
-Cousins would have to waive his NTC to come here.
-the jets haven't reached out to vikes and titans for Cousins or Tannehill.
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 01, 2023, 11:51:08 AM
They’re going to try and do what they can to salvage a year where the team was a ‘QB’ away from being a contender and is without a QB now.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 12:08:54 PM
Yes, I understand Cousins may not want to leave Minny, but Minny may not want him to stay, in which case, the Jets make a lot of sense as a place he can showcase himself in his walk year. If Cousins doesn't want to come here, see what it'll take for Tannehill. If that doesn't work, start calling around and see who is willing to part with someone.
Siemien isn't saving this regime. It's either Zach or a trade. This was always an all-in year. Time to act like it.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 12:25:48 PM
If JD's job is on the line and Zach doesn't show a major turnaround tonight with AR back in the house, he has to go all in on the trade market.If/when the Jets lose today, the Jets are 1-3. Why waste high picks for a team that is a longshot to make the playoffs? Patriots loss changed everything.
Yes, I understand Cousins may not want to leave Minny, but Minny may not want him to stay, in which case, the Jets make a lot of sense as a place he can showcase himself in his walk year. If Cousins doesn't want to come here, see what it'll take for Tannehill. If that doesn't work, start calling around and see who is willing to part with someone.
Siemien isn't saving this regime. It's either Zach or a trade. This was always an all-in year. Time to act like it.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2023, 01:12:40 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 01:39:21 PM
If/when the Jets lose today, the Jets are 1-3. Why waste high picks for a team that is a longshot to make the playoffs? Patriots loss changed everything.
If Douglas and Saleh are on the hotseat if they don't turn it around, all bets are off. This team is completely different with Cousins and could go on a great run. We were a QB away last year, and we still are.
Unless Cousins actively wants to uproot his family or leave them for a team he's already rejected on the past then his no trade clause is a non-starter.
He doesn't need to do anything but pack a trunk full of clothes. He's om an expiring contract so leave the family in place and figure out what's next in February.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2023, 01:54:46 PM
He doesn't need to do anything but pack a trunk full of clothes. He's om an expiring contract so leave the family in place and figure out what's next in February.
You understand this argument only makes.sense if you're not Kirk Cousins, right?
Like, he really doesn't care if he's on an expiring contract and it's easier to stay where he is for the rest of the season instead of leaving for the remainder of the season when he has the ability to knock down any trade request anyway.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 01, 2023, 02:00:24 PM
If Douglas and Saleh are on the hotseat if they don't turn it around, all bets are off. This team is completely different with Cousins and could go on a great run. We were a QB away last year, and we still are.
He doesn't need to do anything but pack a trunk full of clothes. He's om an expiring contract so leave the family in place and figure out what's next in February.
The last part is true. If Minny doesn’t want him back, he’s moving the family in 3 months anyways. What’s a short detour in NY where he can showcase himself vs staying in Minny with nothing prevalent to work with?
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 02:02:03 PM
The last part is true. If Minny doesn’t want him back, he’s moving the family in 3 months anyways. What’s a short detour in NY where he can showcase himself vs staying in Minny with nothing prevalent to work with?Because he doesn't want to play in NY...
And he doesn't need to showcase himself...hes already built his resume with a ton of game tape.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 02:04:47 PM
Nobody has a clue how he feels about playing for the Jets now if the Vikings are 0-4 and dead and the Jets have a great defense he can play in front of for a few months.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 02:08:15 PM
If Douglas and Saleh are on the hotseat if they don't turn it around, all bets are off. This team is completely different with Cousins and could go on a great run. We were a QB away last year, and we still are.They have a built-in excuse with Rodgers. It seems like Rodgers likes the current regime, and Woody basically handed the keys of the franchise to Rodgers.
He doesn't need to do anything but pack a trunk full of clothes. He's om an expiring contract so leave the family in place and figure out what's next in February.
We are a QB away from what? The playoffs? We aren't the only team in the AFC with a great defense. There are a lot of elite QBs in the NFL. Kirk Cousins is good, but if we're starting playoff games against Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen and whoever else, we usually aren't putting the best QB on the field.
Say we get Cousins, and we start him after the bye at 2-4. Are we really catching the Bills and Dolphins at that point? So we're giving up a 3rd-round pick and maybe more just so we can have a chance to have a road playoff game in Kansas City, Buffalo or Baltimore?
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 02:35:16 PM
He didn't want to play in New York for the long haul when the Jets looked like a trainwreck of a franchise.
Nobody has a clue how he feels about playing for the Jets now if the Vikings are 0-4 and dead and the Jets have a great defense he can play in front of for a few months.
This is the key. He's not working from nothing. This is a team with some offensive weapons and a defense that is performing even being on the field all game.
They have a built-in excuse with Rodgers. It seems like Rodgers likes the current regime, and Woody basically handed the keys of the franchise to Rodgers.
We are a QB away from what? The playoffs? We aren't the only team in the AFC with a great defense. There are a lot of elite QBs in the NFL. Kirk Cousins is good, but if we're starting playoff games against Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen and whoever else, we usually aren't putting the best QB on the field.
Say we get Cousins, and we start him after the bye at 2-4. Are we really catching the Bills and Dolphins at that point? So we're giving up a 3rd-round pick and maybe more just so we can have a chance to have a road playoff game in Kansas City, Buffalo or Baltimore?
But you can't lose the locker room. The message can't be "Let's wait till 40-year-old Aaron saves us next year." Again, these are guys putting their bodies on the line now. They don't want to hear they're playing a violent sport for 3+ more months for nothing but some hope.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 02:36:56 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 02:39:33 PM
^ I guess denial isn't just a river in Egypt after all.
Lol, I keep banging the drum for Cousins, but there are other options I'd be fine with. Like Tannehill.
Basically, I want a guy who can come in and manage the game, and not lose. We don't have one of those right now. Cousins I think makes us playoff-dangerous, but I'll take playoff-possible.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 02:49:49 PM
Lol, I keep banging the drum for Cousins, but there are other options I'd be fine with. Like Tannehill.Ok..ill entertain this.
Basically, I want a guy who can come in and manage the game, and not lose. We don't have one of those right now. Cousins I think makes us playoff-dangerous, but I'll take playoff-possible.
If Aaron Rodgers ultimately decided he wasn't playing next year, I'm fine with giving up draft capital for one of those guys. This isn't even taking their team's wishes to keep them or the player's wishes to leave.
But at this point, Rodgers plans on returning. So trading assets to bring a guy in for half a season to try and make the playoffs is too desperate for my tastes and is borderline irresponsible. Because we could be 1-4 o 1-5 when a trade might happen.
Also, Cousins for example, why would he leave the NFC North where his team could still get back in it..to resurrect a 1 win team in a division with the Phins and Bills?
I'll keep saying this...when Rodgers went down, our season went down with him. Unless Zach figures it out.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 02:55:24 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 03:10:38 PM
Ok..ill entertain this.
If Aaron Rodgers ultimately decided he wasn't playing next year, I'm fine with giving up draft capital for one of those guys. This isn't even taking their team's wishes to keep them or the player's wishes to leave.
But at this point, Rodgers plans on returning. So trading assets to bring a guy in for half a season to try and make the playoffs is too desperate for my tastes and is borderline irresponsible. Because we could be 1-4 o 1-5 when a trade might happen.
Also, Cousins for example, why would he leave the NFC North where his team could still get back in it..to resurrect a 1 win team in a division with the Phins and Bills?
I'll keep saying this...when Rodgers went down, our season went down with him. Unless Zach figures it out.
But I'll keep going back to this...
If they keep losing, they'll lose the locker room. Once that happens, it's over for this regime. So why would they hoard the draft capital at the risk that they wouldn't be around to spend it?
Again, Cousins is the big fish to me that makes this team a real threat. But getting someone who keeps this team in games is enough to get you back to Aaron's return.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 03:13:51 PM
But I'll keep going back to this...Yes...they're going to risk losing the lockeroom and it'll be over for this regime. Zach needs to play well or that's exactly what might happen.
If they keep losing, they'll lose the locker room. Once that happens, it's over for this regime. So why would they hoard the draft capital at the risk that they wouldn't be around to spend it?
Again, Cousins is the big fish to me that makes this team a real threat. But getting someone who keeps this team in games is enough to get you back to Aaron's return.
Accept it
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 03:15:51 PM
Yes...they're going to risk losing the lockeroom and it'll be over for this regime. Zach needs to play well or that's exactly what might happen.It's absolutely realistic that the regime could feel the heat and make a desperate move. They don't have to accept that.
Accept it
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 03:18:06 PM
It's absolutely realistic that the regime could feel the heat and make a desperate move. They don't have to accept that.They won't though, Mack...the big move was Aaron Rodgers. So much so that they willfully rolled with Zach Wilson as the #2.
You're a poker guy...this is what you guys call "pushing all your chips in" on the QB position
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2023, 03:18:59 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 03:20:11 PM
I am going to be very upset if Douglas and Saleh give up draft capital to fail to save their jobs.I'll unleash their respective "Fire" hashtags.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 03:28:58 PM
They won't though, Mack...the big move was Aaron Rodgers. So much so that they willfully rolled with Zach Wilson as the #2.If they think their jobs are on the line, then anything is possible.
You're a poker guy...this is what you guys call "pushing all your chips in" on the QB position
I don't think it would be prudent anymore. The time to do it was either immediately, or once asking prices went down if the Jets stayed in it.
We haven't stayed in it. So I don't think we should make a significant trade involving a 3rd or more. But I'm not the one making decisions and they may have separate motivations.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 03:30:09 PM
If they think their jobs are on the line, then anything is possible.Doesn't matter if their jobs are on the line...you still need sign-off from Woody on any potential major trade.
I don't think it would be prudent anymore. The time to do it was either immediately, or once asking prices went down if the Jets stayed in it.
We haven't stayed in it. So I don't think we should make a significant trade involving a 3rd or more. But I'm not the one making decisions and they may have separate motivations.
Maybe Woody gives it to them.....I don't think he does.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 01, 2023, 03:33:29 PM
Yes...they're going to risk losing the lockeroom and it'll be over for this regime. Zach needs to play well or that's exactly what might happen.
Accept it
Ideally, Zach will be "not excrement"
Ideally, I'll win the billion-dollar Powerball
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 03:37:37 PM
Ideally, Zach will be "not excrement"Zach's toasted.
Ideally, I'll win the billion-dollar Powerball
I'm supporting him because as a fan I have no other choice....
Post by: reuben on October 01, 2023, 03:39:13 PM
Zach's toasted.
I'm supporting him because as a fan I have no other choice....
There's only two/three quarters left in Zach Wilson's career. Get ready the Boyle Era.
Post by: reuben on October 01, 2023, 03:42:07 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 03:56:12 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 01, 2023, 03:59:32 PM
Doesn't matter if their jobs are on the line...you still need sign-off from Woody on any potential major trade.I don't think Woody would step in front of anything that could sell a few extra tickets in the short term.
Maybe Woody gives it to them.....I don't think he does.
Post by: MBGreen on October 01, 2023, 04:08:37 PM
I don't think Woody would step in front of anything that could sell a few extra tickets in the short term.He will in this scenario
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 01, 2023, 04:10:20 PM